View Full Version : Forensic Astrology - CAYLEE ANTHONY Reported missing 7/15/2008 #16
Soulscape
05-22-2011, 10:40 AM
Hello All,
I would think everyone here is familiar with the phrase "Back to the Future." As I will explain, this phrase is pertinently applicable to this case.
In private conversations the Core Astrologers have agreed that neither the JURY SWORN IN chart nor the MURDER TRIAL STARTS chart is a stand-alone chart, but rather, both charts are contingent upon the chart that started this action in motion, namely, GRAND JURY INDICTS CASEY ANTHONY FOR MURDER OF HER DAUGHTER CAYLEE.
I repeat:
The charts JURY SWORN IN & MURDER TRIAL STARTS are not stand-alone charts, but continuations of an Event that occurred over 2-1/2 yrs ago, namely the Indictment of Casey Anthony for Murder on 10/14/2008.
If the Grand Jury had not indicted ICA for the murder of her daughter, this trial, anticipated to begin in earnest on May 24, 2011, would not be occurring.
Thus, GRAND JURY INDICTS CASEY ANTHONY is a critical reference chart which we must, IMO, review, study and refer to as this case progresses.
Thus, these subsequent charts must be examined in light of the GRAND JURY INDICTMENT chart, as they are in fact transits to that initiating chart. We are obligated to study progressions to that chart and to the charts of key players (Casey Anthony, Lead Attorneys, Judge) as well.
We will be making preliminary comments shortly.
Thank you for your patience,
Soulscape
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http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68291l]
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Soulscape
05-22-2011, 10:40 AM
As I noted above, neither the JURY SWORN IN chart nor the MURDER TRIAL STARTS chart is a stand-alone chart, but rather, both charts are contingent upon the chart that started this action in motion, namely, GRAND JURY INDICTS CASEY ANTHONY FOR MURDER OF HER DAUGHTER CAYLEE.
Thus, these subsequent charts must be examined in light of the GRAND JURY INDICTMENT chart, as they are in fact transits to that initiating chart. We are obligated to study progressions to that chart and to the charts of key players (Casey Anthony, Lead Attorneys, Judge) as well, as the case progresses~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/romancingthestone/CaseyAnthonyNatalmastercopy.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/romancingthestone/GrandJuryIINDICTmastercopy.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/romancingthestone/JURYSwornINmastercopy.jpg
Queenofwands
05-22-2011, 11:31 AM
Is THIS the chart you are referring to, Soulscape?
(TUBA's)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6092092&postcount=454
TIA
Soulscape
05-22-2011, 12:09 PM
Is THIS the chart you are referring to, Soulscape?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6092092&postcount=454
TIA
YES.
Both Housemouse and I will be posting this key chart as well as we continue our analysis.
Thanks,
Soulscape
marlame
05-22-2011, 12:41 PM
Is THIS the chart you are referring to, Soulscape?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6092092&postcount=454
TIA
Thank you, Queenofwands! :tyou: Here are a couple of additional posts refering back to October 2008:
Tuba’s Post # 498 Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - CAYLEE ANTHONY Reported Missing 7/15/2008: #2
“The GJ or charging body has 20:01 Cancer on the H. of Service, ruled by the Moon at full. She is opposite, fully aware, of the Sun in H. 8, the homicide and the named accused is governed by that same Sun. We have the True Node at the same degree as Saturn, a casualty, fatality, worse and more serious because that is the nature of Saturn. But we have intercepts in H. 1 and H. 7, so there is a great deal we don't know yet about the habits (Virgo) so repetitive and chronic practiced by the prisoner when she is unseen. With Uranus rising and opposed to those habits, we will learn from the evidence and testimony. Uranus can bust up the stony refusal to come clean and in opposition will be aware. The prosecution had an array of instrumentalities at its disposal because Uranus and Neptune are in one another's Signs, mutual reception. The evidence already brought forward to the GJ is therefore very revealing and varied. The final aspect of the Moon is a trine to Pluto ruling H. 9, which bodes well for a future jury and for the lawyers involved.”
Also noted by Tuba is, “The Indictment Horoscope is for a Mars day in a Sun hour.”
In the Astro crime calendar Kaitland posted on 10/14/08...
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=1214&day=2008-10-14&c=5
*The times shown may change, depending on DST settings.
“I see that Casey's natal sun,mercury, and venus fall in the charts 12th house (rules prisons, hospitals, death) so her "vital essence" is eclipsed by these events Her saturn and uranus fall into the 8th house (crisis/transformation/death, and her mars falls into the 9th house of legal judgements. It is ominous. I do think the state attorney will ASK FOR the death penalty. I do not know that that will be the final outcome, because will this chart be the prevailing energy through the trial....? We will have to wait for a trial date to be set.”
It is facinating to go back and read earlier posts! Our Astros do a wonderful job in interpreting the charts! :clap:
MarlaMe
LambChop
05-22-2011, 01:09 PM
This is why we rely so heavily on you all. lol I'm sure what I looked up might relate but I can't put together who is who and what planet rules what person or place. I really need to take a class and start learning because it is FASCINATING to say the least. Not for myself but for others around me. Thanks, Astros, for all your help here.
housemouse
05-22-2011, 01:18 PM
Here is the chart for the Grand Jury Indictment. It is the same chart that Tuba posted, but might be a bit easier to read.
If you have a color printer, let me know how well it prints out for your studies.
housemouse
05-22-2011, 01:32 PM
This is why we rely so heavily on you all. lol I'm sure what I looked up might relate but I can't put together who is who and what planet rules what person or place. I really need to take a class and start learning because it is FASCINATING to say the least. Not for myself but for others around me. Thanks, Astros, for all your help here.
Lambchop, each of us "astros" use different techniques in our research, and that is a good thing, because there are many types of astrology, each type suited to a specific situation.
I focus primarily on the aspects between the planets and the personal points, and pay less attention to rulerships, houses, and signs. I watch the transiting aspects to the natal aspects as an indication of when an event might occur, and the cross aspects between the pertinent charts.
Horary charts may be very useful for trials, and we are so fortunate to have Soulscape with us. This is where she really shines. I depend on her insights in dealing with horary charts.
housemouse
05-22-2011, 01:44 PM
This will be helpful to those of you just beginning your research. I will post another Grand Jury chart showing more information that will be helpful. Save these in a folder on your computer, so you can refer to them when we discuss the events and developments once the trail begins.
housemouse
05-22-2011, 01:49 PM
More information on the Grand Jury Indictment can be found on this page.
Frigga
05-22-2011, 02:37 PM
Thank you Housemouse for the charts and keys, these will be very helpful learning tools. I am off to find explanations of the houses and signs for event charts. Question: do the explanations from natal charts ever apply to an event chart? I hope that isn't a putzenhamer question... thanks for all you do.
Thanks Soulscape for the explanation of all of the charts we should consider in unison, that is extremely helpful too, and thank you to Marlame for refreshing our memories with the old posts from Tuba and Kaitlan- all very helpful~ Frigga
housemouse
05-22-2011, 03:08 PM
Thank you Housemouse for the charts and keys, these will be very helpful learning tools. I am off to find explanations of the houses and signs for event charts. Question: do the explanations from natal charts ever apply to an event chart? I hope that isn't a putzenhamer question... thanks for all you do.
Thanks Soulscape for the explanation of all of the charts we should consider in unison, that is extremely helpful too, and thank you to Marlame for refreshing our memories with the old posts from Tuba and Kaitlan- all very helpful~ Frigga
I think it is a very good question, Frigga. The answer is "yes" and "no". Explanations relating to natal charts apply to the person. So, when we look at Casey's natal chart, we would be able to us the general explanations.
But, many modern western astrologers "emphasize the positive, eliminate the negative" when writing up their comments. When facing a chart such as Casey's, we should consider her situation, and think about whether she used the energies in a positive or negative way.
When looking at an event chart, the basic nature of the planets and aspects remain the same, but the hard aspects should be considered first, as these are the prime cause of the event. The delineation of these relates more to the nature of the event itself, and not as if it were a person.
Every planet has different meanings in different situations. Personal, mundane, medical, etc. There are a lot of keywords that relate to each planet.
Venus, for example can be young women, love, art, items of value, kidneys, thyroid, copper, affection, diplomacy, economics, sensuality,fashion, etc.
Does that help?
Frigga
05-22-2011, 03:19 PM
Housemouse! Thank you, that helps alot! I remember reading in the earliest thread for this case that you said to make a list of keywords for each planet or house. I will do that and add it to the keys and charts I have from you (and Soulscape, Tuba, and Leomoon) so far.
Thanks again for taking the time to help teach us, that is a special trait in and of itself, especially with all that is going on with Mr Housemouse, it makes your time and attention all the more precious and valuable to us. I think Caylee is smiling down from heaven on you~ Frigga
MissJames
05-22-2011, 04:15 PM
This will be helpful to those of you just beginning your research. I will post another Grand Jury chart showing more information that will be helpful. Save these in a folder on your computer, so you can refer to them when we discuss the events and developments once the trail begins.
Hi housemouse and all,
I am on brain overload with other things in my life . I feel like I have Astrology dyslexia and rely on the explanations of our Astros to understand what the charts reveal.
I am a tad envious of those who can read them and those who are learning! Maybe one day ..........In the meantime,Thank you for all of your hard work and the info our Astros provide .
I will continue to follow Caylee's case here and look forward to hearing from our Astros-in-training!
I'm sure the trial will be a roller coaster ride and find comfort in many of the past charts.
One more thing, all good thoughts for our dear Tuba. :grouphug: You are loved!
marlame
05-22-2011, 04:48 PM
I'm also noticing today that KC seems to be in a very good mood. She's laughing and smiling a lot at some of the remarks made in court. She's also very chatty with her lawyer Ms. Frye. They've been talking all day.
I find it very odd that someone on trial for their life for murdering their own child can be so jovial at this time. She acts like she doesn't have a care in the world....maybe she really doesn't...who knows. If I wasn't seeing it happen myself, I probably wouldn't believe it.
All JMO
Watchinginky--I found it odd, as well! :waitasec:
I am relieved to share the post linked below because it appears ICA is no longer in a good mood. No more laughing and not so jovial!!!! It appears reality may be sinking in...YIKES!!! :ohwow:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2011.05.20 Sidebar Thread (Jury Selection Day Eleven)
"This is KC, as she returned to Orange county. This is ABSOLUTELY DREADFUL looking. I even feel something that borders dangerously close to pity for her. She looks completely exhausted & stressed out. Yeah, I thought that I had a bad week!!"
It will be interesting to learn what the charts tell us about ICA as she was transferred! Oh my.... :great:
Frigga
05-22-2011, 04:59 PM
Marlame,
Thanks for posting the links. I went to Astrodienst and printed all of the basic info on houses, rulerships, meanings attributed to planets and signs etc. I went to another website for critical degree information.
I am assembling a three ring binder with tabs so I can quickly reference things during the trial.
I also added the natal charts for Cindy, Casey, and Caylee; now I am off to find the birth charts for George, Lee and Jose to print and add them too!
I think this case, the players, and actually watching the events unfold in real time are allowing us a very rounded learning experience~ Frigga
FifthEssence
05-22-2011, 06:05 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/romancingthestone/helloWHT.gif
Our Core Astros, SOULSCAPE & HOUSEMOUSE have been working in the background preparing resources and such for this long TRIAL. Our NEPTUNIAN has been in contact with us and will chime in periodically during this period.
Our VERY DEAR TUBA who has been instrumental throughout, is sorely missed by ALL. I love her and see many of you have come to love her since the inception of this Forum. Her contributions are invaluable. She is thoughtful and most generous with her wisdom, knowledge and insight she graciously shares with us. We look forward to seeing her return as soon as she is freed up from her personal business affairs.
WS is expecting a lot of traffic so know that we are reading your posts and will respond as promptly as time allows in between our behind the scenes preparation and personal responsibilities.
Tomorrow, the 23rd, I'll post a request detailing specific times we'd like you to clock so we have multiple confirmations of the exact times we need for certain actions that will happen the morning the TRIAL opens.
Your assistance would be much appreciated.
Thank you dear sleuths for your support and holding CAYLEE so close in your hearts.
FIFTHESSENCE
Your Moderator
Asst. Astro to Core Group
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Sooner Fan#1
05-22-2011, 06:37 PM
FIFTHESSENCE, I think that is a wonderful idea..This is the first forum I check out to start my day. Tuba, I absolutely agree, an amazing gift. I have grown to love her as well. Also, Soulscape, Paulette, Housemouse and each of you that have an opinion, and dearly am in awe of you, Fithessense, Leomoon80, without your extremely hard work, we wouldn't be here, and I think I speak for a LOT of W/S'ers.
Zoe Bogart
05-22-2011, 07:27 PM
More information on the Grand Jury Indictment can be found on this page.
Please let me know how these are downloading for you.
housemouse,
All the charts look just fine and are working perfectly. They're easy to save, to copy into MS Word, and they print beautifully, and are easy to read.
Thank you so much.
momshrink
05-22-2011, 08:28 PM
I was very impatient today and I apologize for pushing our very talented astrologers. I have spent time today reading the first two threads - not through them yet - but there has been so much work that has gone into this case of a missing child. I don't think anyone can really appreciate how much our astrologers have done without reading through the threads. I am fascinated by what others can do and wish I could learn to do this, too. I am hopeless with it. This is also the first thread I check every morning and I check in several times a day. I have followed two other cases in this astrology forum so I can appreciate all of the work that a few do here.
This is where I come for the truth of what happened. And if I am too impatient, it is because I just cannot get enough of this.
:loveyou::loveyou::loveyou::loveyou:
Frigga
05-23-2011, 03:46 PM
Wow! The thing that sticks out to me like a sore thumb in both the Indictment Chart and Jury Swearing In Chart are the Saturn/Uranus Oppositions... off to look into what this may signify due to the house placements and signs etc.
ETA: And the Sun/Moon opposition in the Indictment Chart, as well!
housemouse
05-23-2011, 04:41 PM
Wow! The thing that sticks out to me like a sore thumb in both the Indictment Chart and Jury Swearing In Chart are the Saturn/Uranus Oppositions... off to look into what this may signify due to the house placements and signs etc.
ETA: And the Sun/Moon opposition in the Indictment Chart, as well!
You are quick to pick up on that Saturn opposition to Uranus. We have been paying close attention to it. I am going to post more on it, as soon as I can write it up. Do you know anything about midpoints?
WE have noticed that the Saturn/Neptune midpoint shows up in all three charts, and deserves some study!
Major Mistake by me!
I misread my chart, seeing the Saturn/Pluto midpoint as a Saturn/Neptune midpoint! I am so sorry. My eyes are old, and so are my glasses. I better get new ones! I have changed the symbol for Pluto to the other one, so it will be easier to read.
I will post an article tonight explaining the meaning of these.
housemouse
05-23-2011, 06:51 PM
A quick outline of a few pertinent midpoints to think about..
In ICA's natal chart, the midpoint of Saturn and Neptune is in hard aspect to both ICA's Pluto and Uranus. The midpoint between two planets will carry the combined energies of both.
Uranus and Pluto were in hard aspect for everyone born around the time ICA was born. So she is not the only one with this aspect in her chart, so we look for aspects in ICA's chart that would "energize" this.
Mars is just past a conjunction to ICA's Uranus and Mercury is squaring both Mars and Mercury. We can't rely on the most personal points in her chart, because we do not have an accurate birth time.
My guess is that ICA was suddenly fed up by the restrictions presented by her responsibility to care for her child, and dreamed of escaping these constraints.
Unfortunately, ICA didn't find a positive way to act on the sudden urges she felt, and we know the result - anger, violence, death, burial, lies, and more.
When we look at the Grand Jury Indictment, the Saturn/Pluto midpoint is on Mars. Action was taken by the jury about this brutal assault and violence, resulting in loss of life.
In the Swearing In of the Jury chart, the Saturn/Neptune midpoint nows shows up on Venus.
A young woman loses the illusion that she would escape the consequences of her actions, and she goes back to jail.
Another element that kept coming up in the juror selection was a continual effort to show ICA as demure, restrained, and soft. Quiet pastels, modest blouses, and efforts to misdirect responsibility onto un-named others seems appropriate here."
LambChop
05-23-2011, 07:20 PM
Just a quick quiz... can you all pick out the "keywords" and relate them to the planets mentioned? If not would it help if I underlined them, or put them in parentheses.
Underlining would be helpful. I did find some clues such as Sun in Taurus 29 degs. No hope of continuation, brooding, enraged, jealous, death
Uranus in Aries 3 degs: Collisions, understanding through information, winds of change, unexpected results.
Now I have no clue if these are correct because I am just beginning but it was an interesting exercise for me to do.
Soulscape
05-23-2011, 07:30 PM
Underlining would be helpful. I did find some clues such as Sun in Taurus 29 degs. No hope of continuation, brooding, enraged, jealous, death
Uranus in Aries 3 degs: Collisions, understanding through information, winds of change, unexpected results.
Now I have no clue if these are correct because I am just beginning but it was an interesting exercise for me to do.
That was a thoughtful and excellent attempt at interpretations of the energies in light of the known, factual circumstances, Lambchop.
Keep up your studies!
Love,
Soulscape
LambChop
05-23-2011, 07:53 PM
That was a thoughtful and excellent attempt at interpretations of the energies in light of the known, factual circumstances, Lambchop.
Keep up your studies!
Love,
Soulscape
I found more but hesitated to post them. All I can say is it does not look good for the Princess. No glass slipper, no Prince Charming and no pumpkin coach.
Frigga
05-23-2011, 07:54 PM
Okay, Thanks, I see now that it is Saturn/Pluto. Back to seek more answers (this time for the right planets). I think I need new glasses Housemouse! LOL!
housemouse
05-23-2011, 08:18 PM
Okay, Thanks, I see now that it is Saturn/Pluto. Back to seek more answers (this time for the right planets). I think I need new glasses Housemouse! LOL!
Please let us know if you are seriously interested in midpoint sorts and/or trees. We astros realize that too much info can be overwhelming if someone isn't familiar with the technique, and we don't want to put up more information than can be easily understood.
Fifth Essence is our chief, and does her level best to keep us on target. If we get too far out of line, she gently reminds us to hurry back!
:giggle:
housemouse
05-23-2011, 08:36 PM
I found more but hesitated to post them. All I can say is it does not look good for the Princess. No glass slipper, no Prince Charming and no pumpkin coach.
Don't hesitate to post if you find something you think might be pertinent. It is the best way to learn, LambChop. We learn best by discussing things we see in charts that we wonder about. The more minds on the matter, the better.
I learn every day from Fifth Essence and Soulscape. I miss Tuba too, and wish she were here to share her insights. None of us read a chart exactly the same way,and that is a good thing.
It is almost impossible to pick up on everything, and who knows, you just might spot something that went right by us, because we got fixated on another piece of the puzzle!
Soulscape
05-23-2011, 09:39 PM
Note immediately that ASCENDANT 21:54 Libra in JURY SWORN IN chart partile conjuncts SUN 21:50 Libra partile opposed MOON 21:43 Aries in GRAND JURY INDICTS chart within 4 minutes of Arc.
10/14/08 @ 3:51PM= MARS day SUN hour
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/romancingthestone/GrandJuryINDICTMENTjpeg.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/romancingthestone/JurySWORNInjpeg.jpg
MARS in GRAND JURY INDICTS chart 07 Scorpio, partile opposed MARS 07 Taurus in JURY SWORN IN chart.
[FONT=Arial]SUN represents ICA, Lord 7 in the GRAND JURY INDICTS chart.
Lord 4 End of the Matter MERCURY 07:39 Libra RX in GRAND JURY INDICTS chart quindeciles (165 degrees) MOON, as does MARS 07 Scorpio (close conjunct ICA's natal PLUTO 06 Scorpio), and SUN the Hour Ruler is posited within the 8th House of Death.
Lord 4 End of the Matter MERCURY 07:39 Libra RX in GRAND JURY INDICTS chart partile conjuncts the Arabic Part of MARRIAGE 07:46 Libra in the JURY SWORN IN chart, symbolizing, perhaps, that the Jurors commit (marriage) to bringing the matter of the Grand Jury to closure.
Note the 29th degree placements (a matter coming to an end; a matter/ situation/ circumstance that must change / forced to change) when comparing the JURY SWORN IN chart to ICA's natal & progressed charts:
29 Taurus - JURY SWORN IN SUN
29 Pisces - ICA natal EQ*
29 Virgo - ICA natal VX*
29 Sagittarius - ICA natal MIDHEAVEN*
29 Aries/Libra - ICA Secondary Progressed NODES
29 Aquarius - ICA Tertiary Progressed SUN
29 Libra - ICA Tertiary Progressed MOON*
* Without a timed natal chart, the positions of ICA's natal & progressed angles, house cusps and the MOON cannot be known. However, as I have mentioned numerous times throughout this Forum, I find the degree positions provided by the SUN on ASCENDANT chart to be symbolic, pertinent, and often uncannily revealing in charts analyzed from a forensic perspective.
The 29th Degree is 'the End of the Line' .....
I see several indicators of how the subsequent legal actions involved in this case may play out, including the possibility that ICA will ultimately be found guilty of Murder.
If the Murder Trial begins tomorrow morning by 9:18 am at the latest, we will see Cardinal signs on the ASCENDANT/ DESCENDANT and Mutable signs on the MIDHEAVEN/ IC. This suggests the Trial will get off to a fast start with plenty of action (cardinal). However, we will likely see many, many twists and turns, as well as possible changes of direction (mutable) before the Trial comes to closure.
Thanks,
Soulscape
passionflower
05-23-2011, 09:46 PM
Last quarter May 24, 2011 12:52:16 PM .........moon phase
Jenny60123
05-24-2011, 08:09 AM
Please let us know if you are seriously interested in midpoint sorts and/or trees. We astros realize that too much info can be overwhelming if someone isn't familiar with the technique, and we don't want to put up more information than can be easily understood.
Fifth Essence is our chief, and does her level best to keep us on target. If we get too far out of line, she gently reminds us to hurry back!
:giggle:
Respectfully bolded by me. I think you all work together beautifully! You compliment each other with your different styles. I love the varied teaching going on here...I just wish i was a faster learner with this stuff. :waitasec:
ETA: I'm home today and just wrote down the list of times you all are looking for. I'll do my best to get the info to you all quickly.
marlame
05-24-2011, 09:14 AM
The first word coming from the Prosecution--TIME: 9:12:27 :great:
watchinginky
05-24-2011, 10:05 AM
The SA is going through each one of the 31 days Caylee was missing and telling what KC was doing on each of those days. KC looks furious.
We have seen a few tears this AM, but mosting stone cold stares. She has been shaking her head "no" on several occasions.
FifthEssence
05-24-2011, 10:47 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/romancingthestone/OPENINGSTMTPROSECUTIONfinal.jpg
SOULSCAPE says:
Prosecution uttered their opening words at the Casey Anthony Murder Trial this morning, May 24, 2011 in Orlando, FL at 9:12 am. The chart produced shows at that exact time, the MIDHEAVEN 28 Pisces is partile conjunct Casey Anthony's natal SUN, 28 Pisces.
Further, ASCENDANT degree 10 Cancer is close conjunct Casey Anthony's natal MOON 07 Cancer (sunrise position), and may possibly be her natal MOON's true degree.
The MIDHEAVEN symbolizes what comes before the Public Eye (and in this chart, the Judge, as well).
With her natal MOON close conjunct this chart's ASCENDANT, we may expect to clearly see the emotional impact of this trial upon Casey Anthony.
*** Add'l analysis will follow later today.
*
watchinginky
05-24-2011, 11:13 AM
shortened
SOULSCAPE says:
Prosecution uttered their opening words at the Casey Anthony Murder Trial this morning, May 24, 2011 in Orlando, FL at 9:12 am. The chart produced shows at that exact time, the MIDHEAVEN 28 Pisces is partile conjunct Casey Anthony's natal SUN, 28 Pisces.
Further, ASCENDANT degree 10 Cancer is close conjunct Casey Anthony's natal MOON 07 Cancer (sunrise position), and may possibly be her natal MOON's true degree.
The MIDHEAVEN symbolizes what comes before the Public Eye (and in this chart, the Judge, as well).
With her natal MOON close conjunct this chart's ASCENDANT, we may expect to clearly see the emotional impact of this trial upon Casey Anthony.
*
"Red" by me.
I've stated on the main Caylee forum this morning that KC looks like reality is finally hitting her. She has reached the end of the hallway again. IMO, she has been living in a fantasy for so long that she really believed what she was and has been telling everyone.
She's been very stone faced today. I'm waiting for her to flip out.
Frigga
05-24-2011, 12:05 PM
What I found yesterday when I was researching midpoint aspects between Saturn and Pluto (both found in the GJ Indictment chart from 2008 and the Jury Swearing in chart from 2011). Something jumped out at me that I found very interesting among all of the interesting descriptions that could describe this midpoint. I need to understand key words for the houses (placements) though to determine which is best suited, but here they are:
Cautious Cover-ups; Insidious Oppression
Lasting Poisons or Contamination; The Taking Away or Rights or Freedoms
Cold Brutality; Responsibilities for Retaliation and/or Hostilities
Changes which are Slow in Coming but Inevitable
And the one that stuck out to me:
Serious Scientific Studies on Dying!
I thought of course of Dr Vass and the Bodyfarm studies as well as the Post Mortem Root Hair Banding etc.
Just wanted to share.
Soulscape, Thanks for the opening statements chart, however I am unable to print it for study and I am not very good with computers, is there another way to get it so I can put a copy in my folder? TIA
ETA Never mind Soulscape, I see I can go to Astrodienst and print a copy of the chart as well! Thank you so much for supporting us in our attempts to learn and for graciously sharing your wisdom and knowledge throughout all of these cases you so tirelessly work on- it does not go unnoticed~ Frigga
FifthEssence
05-24-2011, 12:12 PM
I got
9:02,
9:03,
9:03,
9:04
9:16
hope this helps.
Thank you.
Take a look above and you'll see we decided to use 9:12AM for the chart.
watchinginky
05-24-2011, 12:13 PM
A quick outline of a few pertinent midpoints to think about..
A young woman loses the illusion that she would escape the consequences of her actions, and she goes back to jail.
Another element that kept coming up in the juror selection was a continual effort to show ICA as demure, restrained, and soft. Quiet pastels, modest blouses, and efforts to misdirect responsibility onto un-named others seems appropriate here."
Very respectfully snipped for space....
"Red" by me.
We're seeing this in the courtroom today. I think the illusion is gone.
The opening statements of the SA were very powerful. Even after everything I've already seen, read and heard about this case, hearing the evidence presented this morning is jaw-dropping. Very damning evidence against KC.
Zoe Bogart
05-24-2011, 12:24 PM
If I were a juror, her constant head shaking would not please me one bit. It's so irreverent. Poor little Caylee.
Thanks so much for the chart, Soulscape. So if the moon was near Casey's, we'd have a good idea of her time of death. Interesting. It would be a great learning tool to compare the assumed (but unverified) natal chart with the other charts for the death, the finding of the body, etc. Not that I'm suggesting we do it here, just privately so as not to confuse anyone. We could then see how things fit together and how close to accurate the charts are. That's how I learn, anyway, lots and lots of charts in comparison.
I'm thinking it's also important for us to clock the time the defense begins its statement. Exact times for everything, right?
Just for the record, I think it very wise of the prosecutors to paint Cindy and George as loving grandparents and victims rather than crazed, money-grabbing, publicity hogs. It will counter nicely if the defense tries to blame them. How would that show up in the trial charts, I wonder?
kcsmom76
05-24-2011, 01:51 PM
Is JB opening statement all a lie??? It is terrible that he is blaming most everything on GA and RK.
Oldsoul2
05-24-2011, 02:31 PM
OMG!!!! I can't believe how low this girl gets....According to defense, george was there when Caylee drowned IMO the only possible lie that could explain the chloroform, he and KC hid the body somewhere where Kronk got to it and held unto it for 6 months and moved it a few times....and on and on...about the pizza theory etc....It's hard to watch this verbal diarhea...astrologers...what's going on here???? Have we just witness the end of Baez's career..I think so
Zoe Bogart
05-24-2011, 02:32 PM
:eek:
I can't wait to see a chart for JB's little speech.
watchinginky
05-24-2011, 02:51 PM
I see several indicators of how the subsequent legal actions involved in this case may play out, including the possibility that ICA will ultimately be found guilty of Murder.
If the Murder Trial begins tomorrow morning by 9:18 am at the latest, we will see Cardinal signs on the ASCENDANT/ DESCENDANT and Mutable signs on the MIDHEAVEN/ IC. This suggests the Trial will get off to a fast start with plenty of action (cardinal). However, we will likely see many, many twists and turns, as well as possible changes of direction (mutable) before the Trial comes to closure.
Thanks,
Soulscape
"Red" by me.
We're definitely seeing this happen this afternoon. George is being thrown under the bus along with Lee Anthony and Roy Kronk.
KC cried some, but is now back to her cold stare.
Oldsoul2
05-24-2011, 03:15 PM
Not sure if everyone had a chance to watch the "cirque de soleil" this afternoon from baez so I just wanted to post the day he said Caylee died....June 16, 2008 early morning...wouldn't specify what time, he kind of brushed it off while mentioning it..."it was sometime in the early morning, the time doesn't matter, it was early" (ironic). Don't you think if this theory was actually true that KC or her father would know exactly what time it happened?
FifthEssence
05-24-2011, 03:34 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/romancingthestone/DEFENSEOpeningStmt114pmjpeg.jpg[
SOULSCAPE wrote:
We had been told in advance to expect 'shocking' revelations' from Defense at Casey Anthony's murder trial, revelations that would 'immediately' clarify what 'really happened.'
The chart produced shows 29 Libra on the 3rd House cusp, symbolizing the Statement itself. This suggests Defense is making an 'end of their rope,' last-ditch effort to save Casey's gluteus maximus. To paraphrase a comment I made upthread, the 29th degree of any sign is the End of the Train Ride.
Scorpio of sexual abuse is intercepted within the 3rd House of Statements, and wouldn't you know it, Defense spoke of secret/hidden (interception) sexual abuse, and deep, twisted family secrets (Scorpio).
Lord 3 of Statements VENUS and Lord Intercepted 3 of Statements MARS are partile conjunct at 10 Taurus in the 9th House of the Jury, putting the 'real story' (3rd House) directly in front of the Jurors. However, note well that VENUS partile conjunct MARS 10 Taurus are also partile inconjunct SATURN RX 10 Libra.
SATURN RX may signify (among other things) a dead (Rx) 5th House Child (Capricorn on 5th House cusp), a testimony fortified by SATURN's partile conjunction to the notorious Death Star VINDEMIATRIX 10 Libra, a.k.a. The Widowmaker & significator of death in the family.
The inconjunct from the 3rd House Words/Story/Statement Lords to Lord 5 the Child translates as a complete disconnect. Further, I see nothing in this chart to persuade me that Defense's 'story' may be true.
Thanks,
Soulscape
***further analysis will follow later.
Oldsoul2
05-24-2011, 03:56 PM
George Anthony testifies that he never sexually molested KC nor was there when Caylee passed...says KC and Caylee left the house and that was the last time he saw her...
3:54pm est
watchinginky
05-24-2011, 03:57 PM
George appears to be telling the truth!!!
housemouse
05-24-2011, 04:22 PM
Have been rechecking George Anthony's chart for signs he was sexually abusive, and am still studying it. First off, I don't see it.
If anything, he might be somewhat sexually inhibited - Mars/Saturn/Pluto tends to inhibit these drives.
How he can take this is beyond me!
watchinginky
05-24-2011, 04:25 PM
Have been rechecking George Anthony's chart for signs he was sexually abusive, and am still studying it. First off, I don't see it.
If anything, he might be somewhat sexually inhibited - Mars/Saturn/Pluto tends to inhibit these drives.
How he can take this is beyond me!
He seems to be very composed IMO. I hope that he's remembering Caylee and this is helping him get through it.
I really feel sorry for him today.
kcsmom76
05-24-2011, 05:12 PM
Is George going to be able to handle these allegations against him?? As in not taking his own life?? I am so worried about him now.
Zoe Bogart
05-24-2011, 05:12 PM
Have been rechecking George Anthony's chart for signs he was sexually abusive, and am still studying it. First off, I don't see it.
If anything, he might be somewhat sexually inhibited - Mars/Saturn/Pluto tends to inhibit these drives.
How he can take this is beyond me!
Yes, housemouse, that's what I see, too.
housemouse
05-24-2011, 05:36 PM
ICA has one midpoint on her natal Saturn.
Venus/Pluto!
Ebertin, the German Astrologer who worked extensively with midpoint says quite succinctly in The Combination of Stellar Influences that this indicates
"Immorality".
"Tragic Love"
I'll take Immoraity for $500, Alex!
housemouse
05-24-2011, 05:47 PM
Is George going to be able to handle these allegations against him?? As in not taking his own life?? I am so worried about him now.
George has the following additional midpoints to his Natal Saturn:
Moon/Neptune - Pessimism, Hopelessness, and Despair/ The Deep Suffering of the Soul/ the tendency to feel inhibited, frustrated, and paralyzed
Mars/Pluto - A person unafraid of hard work (this suggests an inhibition of the male sexual drive to me)
Neptune/Midheaven - a lack of clarity, insecurity, and uncertainty/Suffering from the consequences of wrong actions/ the inability to get over one's losses.
I can only pray that he can find the strength to overcome this. I should go back and look at the transit midpoints during his suicide attempt. I will check these for the near future to see if they get triggered off by any upcoming transit to his Saturn.
Sometimes I hate astrology, you know?
P.S. Just checked, and Uranus is right on these midpoints and his natal Saturn about today, along with Mercury transiting it later in the week. more later on. These things take time to spot, then write up.
katydid23
05-24-2011, 05:55 PM
Looking at Casey's natal sunrise chart, I do not see much evidence of a physically abusive father influence. Her Saturn is in Sag, disposited and squared by Jupiter in Pisces. The afflictions to and from her Saturn [ Father] are mutable, and from Jupiter and Ceres in Virgo, Chiron in Gemini.
Her 'injuries' are more of a verbal and emotional type between she and her Dad. He was critical of her and she may have felt resentful of his judgments. They did not see eye to eye.
UNFULFILLED EXPECTATIONS [ Saturn Square Jupiter] They both felt let down by each other.
[ Mutable Grand Square= Saturn/Jupiter/Ceres/Chiron] They both had very high expectations for their relationship and neither one stepped up successfully in a fulfilling manner.]
The Ceres in VIRGO is the mother figure being very critical and the Chiron/Saturn T- square may denote Casey's disappointment that her Father did not protect her from that maternal wrath.
I see shortcomings in their relationship, but no evidence that it was physically or sexually abusive, imoo
Andromeda
05-24-2011, 06:12 PM
Looking at Casey's natal sunrise chart, I do not see much evidence of a physically abusive father influence. Her Saturn is in Sag, disposited and squared by Jupiter in Pisces. The afflictions to and from her Saturn [ Father] are mutable, and from Jupiter and Ceres in Virgo, Chiron in Gemini.
Her 'injuries' are more of a verbal and emotional type between she and her Dad. He was critical of her and she may have felt resentful of his judgments. They did not see eye to eye.
UNFULFILLED EXPECTATIONS [ Saturn Square Jupiter] They both felt let down by each other.
[ Mutable Grand Square= Saturn/Jupiter/Ceres/Chiron] They both had very high expectations for their relationship and neither one stepped up successfully in a fulfilling manner.]
The Ceres in VIRGO is the mother figure being very critical and the Chiron/Saturn T- square may denote Casey's disappointment that her Father did not protect her from that maternal wrath.
I see shortcomings in their relationship, but no evidence that it was physically or sexually abusive, imoo
Katydid23, I find your post very intriguing because as I watched Casey shake her head in disbelief as George took the stand, my impression wasn't that she believed he was being contrary to what supposedly happened. But rather, he wouldn't "protect her" and take the fall so that she could live. The molestation accusations blew me away. The drowning allegations blew me away (after three years of making her sit in jail?)
But that he wouldn't sacrifice himself for her, both knowing it would be the only way she could get out if 'this'. That was my impression.
Thanks for (what I interpret to be) the validation. :)
Thank you to all the astros for your amazing analysis and input!
Frigga
05-24-2011, 06:26 PM
Andromeda, I thought exactly the same thing that you did about the exchange between father and daughter. Casey could NOT believe he wouldn't take the fall for her, like he said he WOULD at the last motions hearing he was questioned at.
Way to go George, I wasn't sure what he was going to do.
VidaRose
05-24-2011, 06:54 PM
This is horrible. Can someone please do a chart to see if the jury will buy this BS? If I were on the jury and wanted to at least spare her life in the the begining, I don't think I could spare her now after watching what she is doing to her father. She truly is evil. She will hurt anyone to protect herself.
housemouse
05-24-2011, 07:11 PM
Found an interesting cross aspect between Cindy Anthony's chart and the Chart for the start of the trial.
Mars in the trial chart is making hard aspects to Cindy A's Neptune and Moon.
A disillusioned woman?
housemouse
05-24-2011, 07:14 PM
This is horrible. Can someone please do a chart to see if the jury will buy this BS? If I were on the jury and wanted to at least spare her life in the the begining, I don't think I could spare her now after watching what she is doing to her father. She truly is evil. She will hurt anyone to protect herself.
This is my first trial chart, Vida Rose, and I am not sure which planet or point in the trial chart would represent the jury. Maybe Soulscape or Fifth Essence will be able to help here.
I am totally intimidated by trying to judge the outcome of a trial. There are so many factors to consider, I just can't wrap my head around them all. We will have to just struggle through it and see what we learn as we go along.
momshrink
05-24-2011, 07:28 PM
Found an interesting cross aspect between Cindy Anthony's chart and the Chart for the start of the trial.
Mars in the trial chart is making hard aspects to Cindy A's Neptune and Moon.
A disillusioned woman?
Tony P. said that CA was glaring at ICA during the SA's opening statements as LDB spoke of each day.
TakingALook
05-24-2011, 07:59 PM
Found an interesting cross aspect between Cindy Anthony's chart and the Chart for the start of the trial.
Mars in the trial chart is making hard aspects to Cindy A's Neptune and Moon.
A disillusioned woman?
So housemouse, do you think this means that CA is finally coming around to reality and she will see ICA for who she really is? CA will finally accept the fact that her daughter has been in fabrication mode through all of this? TIA (Highlighted/underlined quote by me).
Soulscape
05-24-2011, 08:17 PM
Here's another thing to consider:
Glance back at Defense Opening Statement chart in post #46 one page back and notice all four Angles are mutable.
Mutable = changeable, flexible, able to go this way or that.
That gives me the impression Defense will surely twist & turn and fine-tune (refine, adjust) their 'story' to their advantage all the way to closing argument --- a confirmation of the chart for the official opening of this trial. We posted the second opening chart --- that of the Prosecution Opening Statement. If we had posted the first chart, cast for the time Judge Belvin Perry officially called the court to order, you would observe that the first two charts reflect the same angle configuration: cardinal across the ASCENDANT/ DESCENDANT and mutable across the MIDHEAVEN/IC.
This suggests, as I indicated previously, a fast & furious start (cardinal) and many, many changes, twists & turns before coming to conclusion.
There is no doubt Defense will do anything and everything in its power as this trial continues to get at least one of those Jurors to drink the kool-aid.
Thanks,
Soulscape
housemouse
05-24-2011, 09:34 PM
So housemouse, do you think this means that CA is finally coming around to reality and she will see ICA for who she really is? CA will finally accept the fact that her daughter has been in fabrication mode through all of this? TIA (Highlighted/underlined quote by me).
I am not sure. She could go either way. She has a hard aspect between her Sun and Uranus. That makes her unpredictable.
Remember, without an accurate time of birth, we are seriously handicapped in figuring it all out. The personal points in a chart are totally dependent on an accurate time of birth, and without those, we can only depend on the Sun and the rest of the planets. We can't even be sure of the Moon's degree.
savannahanna
05-24-2011, 09:34 PM
He seems to be very composed IMO. I hope that he's remembering Caylee and this is helping him get through it.
I really feel sorry for him today.
I believe that he had a picture of Caylee propped up in front of him when he was testifying-he kept glancing to it! JMO Also does the astro charts also reflect on the Proscution opening statement? I just wondered how they did per astro chart. I think the SA is George's best friend today! If post is appropriate please move to correct thread. JMO
Savannahanna
Soulscape
05-24-2011, 10:15 PM
... Also does the astro charts also reflect on the Proscution opening statement? I just wondered how they did per astro chart. ...
Savannahanna
(Respectfully snipped for emphasis by Soulscape)
see Prosecution Chart post #35
State's statement is ruled by SUN, Lord 3 of the chart. The square of SUN to NEPTUNE in House 9 the Jury suggests that Prosecution fully intends --- and has in fact put the wheel in motion --- to burn (SUN) through the smoke & mirrors (NEPTUNE) Defense pitches forward, thoroughly dissolving all illusion so that the Jurors (House 9) can see the truth clearly.
Whether they succeed remains to be seen; however, the degree on the 3rd House cusp 27 Leo is close inconjunct Casey's natal SUN 28 Pisces, suggesting State's arguments (3rd House) will harm her.
Thanks,
Soulscape
Frigga
05-24-2011, 11:17 PM
We need some asteroids work from Paulette! Calling Paulette!!!
aeli2468
05-25-2011, 07:49 AM
Sorry to ask this, but is there an event chart for June 16th? I went to the Caylee Calendar and couldn't find it on June 16th and not sure how to sift through all the Caylee atsrology threads to find. I swear Tuba/Housemouse/Soulscape had done one that indicated drugs were involved, but that may have been her natal chart I am thinking of.
I have speculated (before today), that Caylee's death could have been an accidental pool drowning, and wanted to see what the chart looked like. Though admittedly, after JB's opening statements yesterday, he actually made me slightly more inclined to believe it was murder by throwing everyone (and the kitchen sink) under the bus.
thanks!
Elizabeth
watchinginky
05-25-2011, 09:11 AM
Well...we're off to a shakey start this morning. The judge is PO'd at Jose for not having his files ready. Evidently, the SA did not give them a copy of their witness list and they are scrambling to find their files on the witnesses.
The judge also told the SA that he can't make them give their witness list to Jose, but that both sides had better figure this out. They will work on his honor's time and that includes 35 min. for lunch, working late and 1/2 a day on Sundays.
KC looks very smug this morning and I think Cindy looks like she hasn't gotten any sleep. I hope she finds it in herself to tell the truth.
FifthEssence
05-25-2011, 09:22 AM
The ASTRO Calendar is loaded with charts and events back in 2008.
Multiple charts were done for June and will be found in there somewhere through Dec. A series where done for June 15-18th period covering the likely time Caylee passed and the time she was dumped on Suburban. Some( but not all) of those are in the June 08 calendar.
Also, you need to skim through the first 3 threads of the Caylee Astro Forum for the chart work. Look for anything written by, Soulscape, Tuba, Housemouse, Kaitland , Neptunian. Some will be just analysis, others will show the charts they are reflecting on.
TakingALook
05-25-2011, 10:05 AM
Day 2 Reflections:
From Twitter:
TeamNancyHLN Cindy crying on elevator, leaning on George. Saying she hopes she doesn't have to take the stand today. Poor thing. They are suffering.
Oldsoul2
05-25-2011, 02:54 PM
Prosecution doing a very good job laying out KC's character...the shot girls from Fusion were just testifying....Prosecution: did kc ever tell you that she had a daughter (on July 15, 2008) yes...she told me it was her birthday next month and she will invite me to her party....Did she seem like something was wrong? No, she looked happy...died in the pool a month before?? Severe denial IMO stems from some sort of responsibility the person feels they could or could not have done or said to prevent what happened, this just screams "I'm free" Also, if my daughter died in a pool, I would be distraught, inconsolible, not in a bar directing shot girls even in denial, even having no knowledge of this case...good job prosecution!
housemouse
05-25-2011, 06:10 PM
I have been away from the case for quite awhile, but seem to remember that I picked the wee hours of June 18th, or near midnight on the 17th, as the most probable time for the murder of Caylee Marie.
Baez, in opening, says that Caylee drowned on the 16th. How does he know this? Did Casey tell him?
We know that Casey lies constantly about all kinds of thing. Are we supposed to believe that she is telling the truth about this?
Testimony today from Tony Lazzaro indicates that Casey spent the night of June 16th in his bed, and then the rest of the day, June 17th, in bed with him.
Help me here, was this their first sexual encounter between the sheets?
Where was Casey over night on the 17th/18th? Has anyone established an alibi for her whereabouts then?
I should go back and find my posts regarding the midpoints indicating my best guess on the probable time , but have too much to do here at home, and can't, unfortunately.
housemouse
05-25-2011, 06:27 PM
Fifth & other Astros, after looking back at the Afternoon Session Thread @3:06 (Thread...@3:06) EDT someone posted about JP having read letter from Jurors regarding 'wanting & willing to work on Memorial day. And @ 3:07 EDT remarks about Tony L entering court room and taking the stand. Sorry I was not at the computer during this exact occurence. Hope this helps. TAL
The times are important to Fifth Essence and SoulScape. They are not that important to the way I work with charts.
But, for Horary charts (SoulScape is the expert at this) they are very important. All you can do is your best, and don't worry if you miss a few of them.
TakingALook
05-25-2011, 06:29 PM
I am finding TL's testimony hard to follow with all the sidebars during Mr. Geo's questioning.
Then when JB starts his questions - he is speaking so rapidly and in a rather whirlwind approach with the questions. Hard to follow what points he is trying to make.
Definitely a chance of LOSING the Jurors ability to understand, remember and associate the testimony to case.
TakingALook
05-25-2011, 06:38 PM
I have been away from the case for quite awhile, but seem to remember that I picked the wee hours of June 18th, or near midnight on the 17th, as the most probable time for the murder of Caylee Marie.
Baez, in opening, says that Caylee drowned on the 16th. How does he know this? Did Casey tell him?
We know that Casey lies constantly about all kinds of thing. Are we supposed to believe that she is telling the truth about this?
Testimony today from Tony Lazzaro indicates that Casey spent the night of June 16th in his bed, and then the rest of the day, June 17th, in bed with him.
Help me here, was this their first sexual encounter between the sheets?
Where was Casey over night on the 17th/18th? Has anyone established an alibi for her whereabouts then?
I should go back and find my posts regarding the midpoints indicating my best guess on the probable time , but have too much to do here at home, and can't, unfortunately.
I, like you housemouse, am going to have to go back and listen and take a few notes.
I thought that Brian Bruner (sp) said that her car was backed in on the 17th when she borrowed the shovel and then again backed in the next day. So, if she was in the sack with TL all day the 17th -- something is amiss here. Well go re-listen.
I do know, being reported by Jean Casarus of HLN station, that the Jurors had their Notebooks out and open today taking notes which she said they didn't do on opening statement day.
housemouse
05-25-2011, 06:59 PM
I, like you housemouse, am going to have to go back and listen and take a few notes.
I thought that Brian Bruner (sp) said that her car was backed in on the 17th when she borrowed the shovel and then again backed in the next day. So, if she was in the sack with TL all day the 17th -- something is amiss here. Well go re-listen.
I do know, being reported by Jean Casarus of HLN station, that the Jurors had their Notebooks out and open today taking notes which she said they didn't do on opening statement day.
And, I thought the car was backed in on the 18th, but could be mistaken. Tony L. "implied" that she was in bed with him on the 17th. He "skipped" school to stay in bed...
21merc7
05-25-2011, 07:17 PM
housemouse;
RR0004 posted this for you downstairs.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2011.05.25 Sidebar Thread
housemouse
05-25-2011, 07:22 PM
Went there, and saw that Tony L. texted ICA right before she was out of phone contact with anyone in the wee hours of the 18th.
Does that establish that she wasn't in his bed? I am left wondering as to where she was from last time of text until the next morning.
Does anyone know?
Going back to the link to see when the shovel was borrowed. Not sure that BB's testimony today cleared that up, definitively.
FifthEssence
05-25-2011, 07:31 PM
Although charts won't be posted every day, know that we do look at the transits, etc.
IF something remarkable jumps out, one of us will post and make note of it.
As for keeping a timeline of when witnesses are SWORN IN, I thought it would be useful should we decide a chart should go up for a particular time of day and/or with consideration to the person on the witness stand.
This would also afford us the ability to look back on a particular day or witness as the trial is progressing along.
Frigga
05-25-2011, 09:23 PM
Housemouse, Tricia had this link posted in the thread for the premier show of Websleuths Radio, so I'm confident it is okay to post, this gives a real good timeline of the events/dates in June. Hope this helps:
http://www.acandyrose.com/casey_anthony_31days-070808.htm
ETA: Just click on the link to the 31 days, no matter what I do it automatically goes to July 8th date for some reason, but the page will easily get you to the June timeline!
Soulscape
05-25-2011, 09:42 PM
...
...the phrase Tony first used to describe why he played hooky from classes on June 17th: "I didn't want to leave my bed", after mentioning Casey had spent the night on the 16th. He even had a shy, sheepish grin but he was trying to be polite. :innocent:
<Respectfully snipped & bolded for emphasis by Soulscape>
Interesting.
Casey & Caylee Last Seen by George Monday 6/16/2008 at 12:50 pm* per George's consistently adamant testimony from the very beginning, through secret Grand Jury proceedings, through his testimony on the witness stand yesterday.
*Chart on Astro Crime Calendar, June 2008
Casey spent the night of Monday 6/16/2008 with ToNy L., per ToNy's testimony today on the witness stand.
Where was Caylee Marie the night of June 16, 2008? Spending the night with 'Xannie' in Casey's car?
******
Back in the summer of 2008, the astros narrowed the death window to 6/16 - 6/18 (with some conjecture on 6/15 late at night through early morning 6/16, because of questions on whether George was telling the truth about the last sighting). (See Astro Crime Calendar for June 2008 for many charts)
The next door neighbor testified today at court re: seeing Casey backing her car into the garage for the 1st time on June 17th, the day after Caylee was last seen, and the 2nd time on June 18th, which was the day Casey also borrowed the neighbor's shovel.
I believed from the beginning that George was telling the truth about the last sighting. Caylee was certainly and most assuredly dead as early as 6/16 and, based on neighbor's observations, no later than 6/17, the first time the neighbor observed Casey backing her car into the garage.
Thanks,
Soulscape
PS: I echo FifthEssence's request to please, if you can, give us a daily run-down of name of witness, relationship to the case (e.g., friend of Casey's, former co-worker, ex-boyfriend, etc.), and the time each witness is sworn in.
This could be provided at day's end, every day of the trial.
While we will not be posting every chart, this running timeline will be very useful to us as we continue our work.
TIA for all of your continuing support. We are very grateful.
MissJames
05-25-2011, 09:51 PM
(Respectfully snipped for emphasis by Soulscape)
State's statement is ruled by SUN, Lord 3 of the chart posted at #42 on page 2 of this thread. The square of SUN to NEPTUNE in House 9 the Jury suggests that Prosecution fully intends --- and has in fact put the wheel in motion --- to burn (SUN) through the smoke & mirrors (NEPTUNE) Defense pitches forward, thoroughly dissolving all illusion so that the Jurors (House 9) can see the truth clearly.
Whether they succeed remains to be seen; however, the degree on the 3rd House cusp 27 Leo is close inconjunct Casey's natal SUN 28 Pisces, suggesting State's arguments (3rd House) will harm her.
Thanks,
Soulscape
I have not seen this mentioned here,so forgive me if I missed it.
It did not appear that JA or LDB were in court today. In the main forum CoastalPilot pointed out that they must be working to debunk the DT's opening statements.
Is that the likely start of the burning through smoke and mirrors?
Soulscape
05-25-2011, 10:12 PM
I have not seen this mentioned here,so forgive me if I missed it.
It did not appear that JA or LDB were in court today. In the main forum CoastalPilot pointed out that they must be working to debunk the DT's opening statements.
Is that the likely start of the burning through smoke and mirrors?
My Dear MissJames,
The smoke & mirrors started before the moment JB began Defense's Opening Statement, Tuesday May 24, 2011 at 1:14 pm.
As we are aware, 'previews of attractions to come' had been given much earlier when the DT strategically leaked to media that America would be 'shocked' when they learned what 'really' happened to Caylee Marie, why Casey lied, and then 'it would all make sense.'
State's biggest challenge throughout this trial will be exactly that, to 'burn' (SUN) through (square) Defense's 'smoke & mirrors' (NEPTUNE). They knew this prior to Opening Statement because the SUN sq NEPTUNE aspect is separating (in the past).
State must provide consistently solid, factual, incontrovertible, black & white proof regarding Casey's guilt -- anything less could result in one or more jurors drinking the Dream Team kool-aid (NEPTUNE), thus ending this action in a mistrial.
Thanks,
Soulscape
FifthEssence
05-25-2011, 10:15 PM
The neighbor testified today KC borrowed the shovel on the 18th around 1:30PM
I located this post by TUBA which she wrote on 11/15/08 describing her observations about KC on 6/18/08 ( shovel day)
VERY INTERESTING! She hit the nail on the head.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - CAYLEE ANTHONY Reported Missing 7/15/2008: #3
Chart: http://i481.photobucket.com/albums/rr172/CausticSalt/SilenceoftheTomb013.jpg
This is a horoscope I cast to follow up on my suggestion of last night that we look into the cell pings & their silences during that period when Casey was encumbered with a body. It seems like a good idea to explore possible burial or disposal locations by water while we are in the Scorpio sector of the zodiac. We have little of it left.
Casey faced one of the major decisions of her life as Mercury stationed to turn direct on the degree of the Uranian node. The Part of the Female Child for this chart is 14:40 II conjunct Mercury. The Moon was in the Sign of the Gravedigger and in detriment and was opposing a very young Venus at 0:44 Cancer. Moon is conjunct Pluto and Venus combust the Sun. Both Moon & Venus are in crisis (0° Cardinal Signs).
Pluto will shame an inert, vacillating individual into action and the embarrassment here is due to the Mars opposite Neptune reek in the Pontiac. Pluto conceals knowledge private to her and acts with detachment, stolidly. Pluto works silently and the cell phone will be turned off in a half hour. The gravedigging Moon and Pluto are trine Saturn in the earth of Virgo. Saturn repeats the theme of gravedigger.
Mars in H. 9 (very active on a cusp) is the action planet of a completed YOD, with Neptune at the reaction point and Jupiter and Uranus forming the sextile, both of course qunicunx Mars. A YOD means Casey was at the crossroads and would make a major decision. The YOD triggers life shifting change and many crimes are committed under this formation.
In thread #1, I wrote about the Mars identification to her mother in Caylee's chart. Casey had Jupiter, Neptune and Pluto plus progressed Mars all at the degree of Caylee's own parental planet Mars in Taurus. All those facets of Casey's character & personality expressed as a Mars mother in Caylee's chart, one who was also sensual and focused on young men who appeared as strangers to Caylee (H. 9).
In this chart the type of parenting in behalf of her child is again Mars, ruler of H. 5 where is found the critical degree of 26 Aries, a crisis over a child. Unless you were born on a raft and had to swim to an island, you would not choose Mars for your mother.
This chart still speaks of a grave dug on the bank of water, likely a lake or pond but definitely by water. Because the critical node & Neptune were opposite Mars and the Sun was in the H. of others & the public opposite Pluto and the Moon of activity, I believe Casey was dreadfully afraid of being seen. Strangers, travelers did see her, certainly. Those oppositions and the Sun in H. 7 ruling H. 9 make that clear.
Casey's natal decision point was 1:18 Aries, square the choice made here. She forced herself to do this, therefore, though fearful of being caught at it.
Oldsoul2
05-25-2011, 10:58 PM
Wow, thanks Fifth, that makes it pretty clear. The one thing that jumped out at me is that Tuba mentions a grave near water. At the time KC buried her off Hopesprings in the woods, it was presumed dry....hence that leaves us with the shed near the pool where the dogs hit. That tells me, her first location in panic was there and when she returned to borrow the shovel is when she retrieved Caylees body to move it. I remember the heavy rain in Orlando being months later when they searched...correct me if I'm wrong.
There's been alot of mention about the body being moved by the defense, although blaming it on someone else, why would that even be brought up? I also just want to say, I, being a very logical person cannot understand this defense strategy at all, it makes no sense and JB is all over the map with speculations he can't prove nor does it coincide with any of the evidence..... If it was an accident, why not call 911, she wouldn't be fighting for her life if her child climbed the ladder by accident? I just think JB bought this story KC fed him but he sounds like a child trying to convince his parents of a lie. What's going on with JB? Is it possible to take a look at his chart?
TakingALook
05-25-2011, 11:09 PM
Went there, and saw that Tony L. texted ICA right before she was out of phone contact with anyone in the wee hours of the 18th.
Does that establish that she wasn't in his bed? I am left wondering as to where she was from last time of text until the next morning.
Does anyone know?
Going back to the link to see when the shovel was borrowed. Not sure that BB's testimony today cleared that up, definitively.
I noticed in BB testimony today that he said she backed into garage and then he said she did it again the next day. I didn't remember that in his depo way back when; so I was a bit taken back with the statement of seeing her TWICE backed in. And one time was the date (June 17, 2008) that she was supposedly staying with TL all day - according to TL's testimony today. Go figure that one. Strange to say the least
TakingALook
05-25-2011, 11:17 PM
Wow, thanks Fifth, that makes it pretty clear. The one thing that jumped out at me is that Tuba mentions a grave near water. At the time KC buried her off Hopesprings in the woods, it was presumed dry....hence that leaves us with the shed near the pool where the dogs hit. That tells me, her first location in panic was there and when she returned to borrow the shovel is when she retrieved Caylees body to move it. I remember the heavy rain in Orlando being months later when they searched...correct me if I'm wrong.
There's been alot of mention about the body being moved by the defense, although blaming it on someone else, why would that even be brought up? I also just want to say, I, being a very logical person cannot understand this defense strategy at all, it makes no sense and JB is all over the map with speculations he can't prove nor does it coincide with any of the evidence..... If it was an accident, why not call 911, she wouldn't be fighting for her life if her child climbed the ladder by accident? I just think JB bought this story KC fed him but he sounds like a child trying to convince his parents of a lie. What's going on with JB? Is it possible to take a look at his chart?
Just a thought? How would a person go about finding the video of Greta Van Sustern interview with the A's? I think I remember them talking about the fresh dirt area that had been dug where the A's had planted or transplanted a shrub area near the pool. (Might this have been a temporary grave)?
FifthEssence
05-25-2011, 11:28 PM
Just a thought? How would a person go about finding the video of Greta Van Sustern interview with the A's? I think I remember them talking about the fresh dirt area that had been dug where the A's had planted or transplanted a shrub area near the pool. (Might this have been a temporary grave)?
I too recall Greta at the house and Cindy talking about the moving of a plant or tree.
The video may be in an old TIMELINE thread or NEWS LINK thread back in '08. May also be on YouTube somewhere.
Good luck.
housemouse
05-26-2011, 12:21 AM
Some of you might find it interesting to go back to the first thread in this forum, and read through the first pages posted in August of 2008.
I did a lot of posting back then on what I saw in the charts/midpoints. I am very interested in finding out exactly when beloved Caylee died, mostly because I want to test the method I have been using since the mid-1980s.
Some of you might find the early astrological posts & speculations interesting when listening to the trial testimony. At any rate, it is an interesting trip back in time, to see who posted what, and when.
Here is the link:
Forensic Astrology - CAYLEE ANTHONY Reported Missing 7/15/2008: #1 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
marlame
05-26-2011, 04:36 AM
I too recall Greta at the house and Cindy talking about the moving of a plant or tree.
The video may be in an old TIMELINE thread or NEWS LINK thread back in '08. May also be on YouTube somewhere.
Good luck.
FifthEssence & Takingalook, I believe it was a Hibiscus tree...
Here is a link to a YouTube video that contains the clip of Cindy telling Greta from FOX OTR about George moving the hibiscus.
The Video is a bit odd so just skip to minute 1:56:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asli_c189FM
:shocked2: Also, interesting to note is a picture Casey had on her photobucket account but after Caylee was reported missing she deleted it. The picture was titled "Hibiscus":Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey's Photobucket
Hmmm...Is there anything revealing in the charts about a Hibiscus??? :waitasec:
Venus Correspondences: Plants: Violet, wild rose, coltsfoot, apple, balm of gilead, bergamot, catnip, damiana, dragons blood, geranium, hibiscus, magnolia, mugwort, plumeria, rose, rose geranium, strawberry, vanilla, vervain. http://www.esoterism.ro/english/zodiac-correspondences.php
Thanks!
MarlaMe
Jenny60123
05-26-2011, 06:53 AM
Good morning friends,
I have to drop the kids at school.and will
miss the first witness starts. Could
someone get that first time?
Thanks! Just Us for Caylee.
FifthEssence
05-26-2011, 07:48 AM
Some of you might find it interesting to go back to the first thread in this forum, and read through the first pages posted in August of 2008.
I did a lot of posting back then on what I saw in the charts/midpoints. I am very interested in finding out exactly when beloved Caylee died, mostly because I want to test the method I have been using since the mid-1980s.
Some of you might find the early astrological posts & speculations interesting when listening to the trial testimony. At any rate, it is an interesting trip back in time, to see who posted what, and when.
Here is the link:
Forensic Astrology - CAYLEE ANTHONY Reported Missing 7/15/2008: #1 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68291)
How's this? A quad chart created early in Aug '08 with circle cut outs showing the critical transits bearing down on Casey, the poor condition Caylee is in and evidence of conflict/stress between Casey and her mother.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - CAYLEE ANTHONY Reported Missing 7/15/2008: #1
Extrasuper
05-26-2011, 08:24 AM
Wow, thanks Fifth, that makes it pretty clear. The one thing that jumped out at me is that Tuba mentions a grave near water. At the time KC buried her off Hopesprings in the woods, it was presumed dry....hence that leaves us with the shed near the pool where the dogs hit. That tells me, her first location in panic was there and when she returned to borrow the shovel is when she retrieved Caylees body to move it. I remember the heavy rain in Orlando being months later when they searched...correct me if I'm wrong.
There's been alot of mention about the body being moved by the defense, although blaming it on someone else, why would that even be brought up? I also just want to say, I, being a very logical person cannot understand this defense strategy at all, it makes no sense and JB is all over the map with speculations he can't prove nor does it coincide with any of the evidence..... If it was an accident, why not call 911, she wouldn't be fighting for her life if her child climbed the ladder by accident? I just think JB bought this story KC fed him but he sounds like a child trying to convince his parents of a lie. What's going on with JB? Is it possible to take a look at his chart?
Now it makes sense to me Oldsoul2. Thank you so much for your post.....:crazy:
Soulscape
05-26-2011, 09:38 AM
MOON went void of course yesterday afternoon at 2:15 pm and will not enter the next sign (Aries) until 8:36 pm this evening.
Note the tone of proceedings at court today, keeping in mind that no matter what transpires (or does not) today, it may not impact the jury either positively or negatively (Void MOON suggests "nothing will come of it").
May 25, 2011 2:15 PM Moo Sxtil Mer V/C
May 26, 2011 8:36 PM Moo enters Aries
It is more likely we will see 'action' of some sort tomorrow, when MOON is well established in feisty Aries, and such 'action' may be more likely to influence the Jurors.
Thanks,
Soulscape
housemouse
05-26-2011, 10:46 AM
This is so interesting. I am going to check GA's midpoints against the midpoints for today at this time to see what is being hit.
Will post the midpoint contacts as soon as I can generate them!
watchinginky
05-26-2011, 10:57 AM
Baez is giving George a hard time on the stand this morning. George is holding his own and is telling the truth. I think Baez is trying to get him to say or admit to things and George is having no part of it.
Yeah for George!!
Soulscape
05-26-2011, 11:01 AM
Here's what I have so far. Probably more than you need, but I would rather give you more than you need than not enough!
Thursday, May 26, 2011
8:54:18 am - KC enters the courtroom.
9:01:50 am - Tony L. (KC's former boyfriend) enters the courtroom.
9:03:19 am - Baez starts questioning Tony L. (I didn't see him getting sworn in).
9:20:48 am - Redirect examination of Tony L. by the SA.
9:27:41 am - Re-cross examination of Tony L. by Baez.
9:28:45 am - The judge told Tony L. that he could stand down, but he is not excused. He is to stay in the courthouse.
9:29:24 am - George Anthony (KC's father) sworn in.
Watchinginky,
Your post deserves more than a click on the Thanks icon!
The format in which you have presented the info and details included is perfect for our needs.
I am impressed and most grateful for your assistance and dedication.
Thank you so much,
Soulscape
Oldsoul2
05-26-2011, 11:03 AM
Just a thought? How would a person go about finding the video of Greta Van Sustern interview with the A's? I think I remember them talking about the fresh dirt area that had been dug where the A's had planted or transplanted a shrub area near the pool. (Might this have been a temporary grave)?
I believe this is why JB is trying to discredit the dogs. Please prosecution, ask this question when questioning Cindy.
watchinginky
05-26-2011, 11:09 AM
Watchinginky,
Your post deserves more than a click on the Thanks icon!
The format in which you have presented the info and details included is perfect for our needs.
I am impressed and most grateful for your assistance and dedication.
Thank you so much,
Soulscape
Thank you Soulscape. This forum is by far my favorite and I'm amazed at what all of you astros are able to do. It's the first place I visit every day.
I'm not going to be around my computer much in the next few days, but I'll try to post anything I can for all of you. I'll be back in full swing next Tuesday!
housemouse
05-26-2011, 11:15 AM
I notice that the transiting Moon is squaring the Nodes during GA's cross-examination...
"Illogical goals or methods for allying with others"
"Social immaturity and barriers"
(Munkasey)
FifthEssence
05-26-2011, 11:16 AM
This is so interesting. I am going to check GA's midpoints against the midpoints for today at this time to see what is being hit.
Will post the midpoint contacts as soon as I can generate them!
While you're at it, check Jose B's midpoints.
They are clashing big time.
housemouse
05-26-2011, 11:18 AM
Today's Sun is within one degree of George's Neptune, Venus and Mercury (45 degree sorts)
midpoint Sun/Mars
Also slow moving Uranus is within one degree of GA's Mars and Saturn.
Saturn is on GA's Venus/Mars
Neptune is on GA's Uranus/Neptune
George is really under a lot of pressure with all this going on. Confusion with all the Neptune, communication difficulties, and more.
See if you all can find the right keyword for the stresses shown.
watchinginky
05-26-2011, 11:21 AM
While you're at it, check Jose B's midpoints.
They are clashing big time.
BBM
This is very evident in the courtroom today. IMO, Jose is very close to being argumentative with George.
watchinginky
05-26-2011, 11:26 AM
Today's Sun is within one degree of George's Neptune, Venus and Mercury (45 degree sorts)
midpoint Sun/Mars
Also slow moving Uranus is within one degree of GA's Mars and Saturn.
Saturn is on GA's Venus/Mars
Neptune is on GA's Uranus/Neptune
George is really under a lot of pressure with all this going on. Confusion with all the Neptune, communication difficulties, and more.
See if you all can find the right keyword for the stresses shown.
BBM
George seems very frustrated with Jose's questioning, but he seems to be very direct with his answers.
For example, Jose was questioning George about a picture of a gas can that has not been admitted into evidence at this point. George pointed this out to Jose, that the picture Jose was showing him was not the same gas can in question.
The judge laid down the law to Jose. I think Jose has already pushed the judge to his last limit this morning.
As for the confusion, it appears that Jose is trying to confuse George to make it appear that he's lying under oath.
All is JMO.
housemouse
05-26-2011, 11:34 AM
While you're at it, check Jose B's midpoints.
They are clashing big time.
Good idea! Also check them against GA's. Will post these later.
Zoe Bogart
05-26-2011, 12:34 PM
Here's what I have so far. Probably more than you need, but I would rather give you more than you need than not enough!
Thursday, May 26, 2011
8:54:18 am - KC enters the courtroom.
9:01:50 am - Tony L. (KC's former boyfriend) enters the courtroom.
9:03:19 am - Baez starts questioning Tony L. (I didn't see him getting sworn in).
9:20:48 am - Redirect examination of Tony L. by the SA.
9:27:41 am - Re-cross examination of Tony L. by Baez.
9:28:45 am - The judge told Tony L. that he could stand down, but he is not excused. He is to stay in the courthouse.
9:29:24 am - George Anthony (KC's father) sworn in.
I think you've figured out the best way to do it. I'm always thinking should I use the time when they raise their right hand, or should I use the time when the swearing ends.
Entering the courtroom time is a great idea, too. Thanks so much.
Just a thought? How would a person go about finding the video of Greta Van Sustern interview with the A's? I think I remember them talking about the fresh dirt area that had been dug where the A's had planted or transplanted a shrub area near the pool. (Might this have been a temporary grave)?
I remember that interview, but I can't find it right now. I tried searching you tube but it's probably marked with a different name than I used to search. There may have been several times they spoke of digging in the backyard because many people were questioning how coincidental it was to have the As working in their yard after Caylee "disappeared" and the dogs hitting there. Of course, it could have been a mere coincidence, and the yard needed sprucing, which isn't unusual in the Spring/Summer months when Southern yards require lots of attention. I wish we had done a chart on that but even if someone had thought of it, there's no way to know exactly when the As were digging, transplanting, and altering their gardens. :wink:
salvarenga
05-26-2011, 12:44 PM
I think you've figured out the best way to do it. I'm always thinking should I use the time when they raise their right hand, or should I use the time when the swearing ends.
Entering the courtroom time is a great idea, too. Thanks so much.
I remember that interview, but I can't find it right now. I tried searching you tube but it's probably marked with a different name than I used to search. There may have been several times they spoke of digging in the backyard because many people were questioning how coincidental it was to have the As working in their yard after Caylee "disappeared" and the dogs hitting there. Of course, it could have been a mere coincidence, and the yard needed sprucing, which isn't unusual in the Spring/Summer months when Southern yards require lots of attention. I wish we had done a chart on that but even if someone had thought of it, there's no way to know exactly when the As were digging, transplanting, and altering their gardens. :wink:
Backyard talk starts at around the 2:20 mark...
http://youtu.be/2eMDQzXM4zU
CA talks about dogs alerting near the playhouse, in the sandbox (which had a cover on it) and by the pool.
Zoe Bogart
05-26-2011, 01:30 PM
Backyard talk starts at around the 2:20 mark...
http://youtu.be/2eMDQzXM4zU
CA talks about dogs alerting near the playhouse, in the sandbox (which had a cover on it) and by the pool.
Thanks so much. I found an edited version of the same interview, interspersed with Cindy's claim that George's perspiration was why the dogs alerted to sections of the backyard! Highly entertaining but your find is better for our purposes. The upload date on the video is Aug. 5th, 2008, very early into the case (-31 days, naturally). I assume the interview was that day or the day or two before.
housemouse
05-26-2011, 01:49 PM
I decided to check the midpoints to Mr. Baez Mercury. Mercury is the planet that rules communication, among other things.
He has two midpoints exactly conjunct his natal Mercury. The Mars/Neptune midpoint, and the Venus/Mars midpoint.
Mercury = Mars/Neptune:
"Thoughtlessness, nervous weakness (in consequence of drugs or misuse of energy) weakness of mind, sensitive nerves, many plans without a chance of realization" - From Ebertin's COSI
Munkasey is worth reading to get a feel for how Baez has some serious difficulty with this midpoint as it relates to his ability to communicate.
Make up your own keywords as you see him in action.
I would say "Baez's aggressive and wandering interrogation toward witnesses creates confusion, and irritability in all around him.
The words I underlined relate to Mercury, Mars, and Neptune. Can you link an underlined word to a planet?
housemouse
05-26-2011, 02:05 PM
Mr. Baez's Mercury with the difficult Mars/Neptune midpoint falls on GA's Sun/Mars midpoint, and is within orb of GA's Sun/Pluto midpoint.
You may have noticed that Baez's questions elicited some stubbornness, obstinacy, and a desire to answer a bit too hastily in GA. I would also think GA felt intensely provoked, but managed to keep a lid on his feeling of persecution.
marlame
05-26-2011, 02:21 PM
I notice that the transiting Moon is squaring the Nodes during GA's cross-examination...
"Illogical goals or methods for allying with others"
"Social immaturity and barriers"
(Munkasey)
Oh housemouse, you are so good! Thank you for pointing this out! :loveyou:
Here is what Celeste Teal says regarding aspects between the Nodes/Moon...
Events centering on the home and family take on added importance and these contacts especially relate to qualities of nurturing and mothering. Often someone enters the life at this time that plays a nurturing role. This is likely to be a woman and relationships with women tend to be most significant. At other times, this contact may show a time when a nurturing individual leaves or the relationship comes to an end. These node/Moon links also coincide with the birth of children and events surrounding offspring. This contact has been noted as a factor in various accidents and in cases of drowning. As in all the nodal contacts, the North Node will more often reveal a joining quality in these matters, while the South Node indicates a separating quality. (I love her book Lunar Nodes)
More info...http://moonvalleyastrologer.com/moon_nodes.htm
Chilling!!! :ohwow:
housemouse
05-26-2011, 02:27 PM
Good Post! I have a lot of respect for Celeste Teal's work.
You bring some good insights and extend the way we can look at the situation.
housemouse
05-26-2011, 03:44 PM
Thinking about JB's Venus Neptune Node hard aspects. He at best is confused about his finances/money and dealing with others, at worst he is deceptive.
Jenny60123
05-26-2011, 04:03 PM
I have to leave to get the kids in 10 minutes. I hope someone can keep up with the times while i'm out. I've got lots of chauffering to do as well as a Middle School Spring Concert so i'm not sure if i'll be back on today at all. Can't wait to hear what our wonderful Astrologers have to say. Peace.
Zoe Bogart
05-26-2011, 05:21 PM
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/subindex/news/anthony_case
Baez is talking to Anthony Lazzaro about Lee trying to molest Casey
Tony is saying Casey never told him GA sexually abused her. Tony said Lee made an attempt to feel her up on her breasts but he was NOT successful and never tried anywhere else.
This came right after the judge asked the media not to follow attorneys and to only wait for them in designated areas.
Tony was excused for the night at 5:28:58
Court is in recess until 8:30 tomorrow per HHJP (attorneys have to meet with HHJP).
This definitely JUST HAPPENED. Tony said ICA told him GA hit her as a child, but he assumed it was discipline. When pressed further by Baez, he said he doesn't remember her saying sexual, but wishes they had asked him this in 2008 when his memory would have been better.
Casey was NOT happy listening to this, she was really shaking her head and speaking to the person next to her. George and Cindy were still there, and the media, but many others were already gone.
I heard this because I left my window open while I was posting the timeline, suddenly, they starting broadcasting again.
FifthEssence
05-26-2011, 05:45 PM
http://www.myfoxorlando.com/subindex/news/anthony_case
Baez is talking to Anthony Lazzaro about Lee trying to molest Casey. It is NOW
Tony is saying Casey never told him GA sexually abused her. Tony said Lee made an attempt to feel her up on her breasts but he was NOT successful and never tried anywhere else.
This came right after the judge asked the media not to follow attorneys and to only wait for them in designated areas.
Tony was excused for the night at 5:28:58
Court is in recess until 8:30 tomorrow per HHJP (attorneys have to meet with HHJP).
This definitely JUST HAPPENED. Tony said ICA told him GA hit her as a child, but he assumed it was discipline. When pressed future by Baez, he should he doesn't remember he saying sexual, but wishes they had asked him this in 2008 when his memory would have been better.
Casey was NOT happy listening to this, she was really shaking her head and speaking to the person next to her. George and Cindy were still there, and the media, but many others were already gone.
I heard this because I left my window open while I was posting the timeline, suddenly, the starting broacasting again.
adding further info: (Tony was back on stand @5:19PM)
First Baez asked questions and when done, the The Judge said, " Let me ask a few questions"
Because of Judge' questioning, we got clarity
That she mentioned abuse before June 30th-he went to NY on vacation that week- and/or after July 5th when he returned. Said when she mentioned any of these allegations, he said he dismissed quickly to get her mind off of the subject so she wouldn't dwell because he does not know how to deal with those kind of things.
(IMO- it seems to imply she did not mention these accusations against Geo or Lee early in their relationship at all and was limited to a period after Caylee went missing and may have only been once mentioned)
NOT good for the Defense.
Questioning of Tony ended @5:29 and he was excused from stand.
They want us to believe the admitted LIAR's lies.
housemouse
05-26-2011, 05:50 PM
Everyone who got smacked on the fanny by their Dad, or switched on the legs by their Mom, raise your hands!
And, everyone who "played doctor" with siblings when young, raise your hands!
floorlaugh:)
TakingALook
05-26-2011, 06:05 PM
Another thing I hope the Jurors see, hear and remember during JB's questioning is that JB states: that ICA (because of the abuse and her going to that deep dark corner) 'Can Not Show EMOTION' -- what is she doing during testimony with the tears and during the times the jurors are not in there -- laughing and making MANY faces with her DT? It is not non-emotion.
FifthEssence
05-26-2011, 06:09 PM
THANK YOU ALL for keeping an eye on the CLOCK!!!
You're wonderful partners indeed.:clap:
And thanks HOUSEMOUSE for providing the MID-POINTS.
Hope you're ready for tomorrow.
SAME DRILL TOMORROW- clocking the action if you're available.
TakingALook
05-26-2011, 07:16 PM
Astros, is the HHJP hearing enough that he is leaning towards HHJSS saying that "Ms Anthony and the Truth are Strangers"?
housemouse
05-26-2011, 07:37 PM
Found this on the Sidebar thread.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2011.05.26 SIDEBAR THREAD Trial Day Three (Evening Edition)
And, not gonna do a chart on it. We all know what (xxxcan't sayxxx) these people are already. We looked already, no point in another pass at it.
Wescott
05-26-2011, 08:34 PM
Thinking about JB's Venus Neptune Node hard aspects. He at best is confused about his finances/money and dealing with others, at worst he is deceptive.
Interesting now that it has become public that ica owes taxes probably on the money from the sale of photos.
Lynn Gweeny
05-26-2011, 09:02 PM
Found this on the Sidebar thread.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2011.05.26 SIDEBAR THREAD Trial Day Three (Evening Edition) (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6561614&postcount=302)
And, not gonna do a chart on it. We all know what (xxxcan't sayxxx) these people are already. We looked already, no point in another pass at it.
Here's a copy of the "Notice of Federal Tax Lien" that was filed.
CFN201170805
Bk 04133 Pg 0485
DATE: 05/25/2011 03:29:17 PM
Malcom Thomson, Clerk of Court
Osceola County
This notice was prepared and signed at Baltimore, MD, on this, the 17th day of May, 2011.
http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2011/0526/28038706.pdf
FifthEssence
05-26-2011, 09:07 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/romancingthestone/DOGblinking.gif
Although emotions will be running high throughout this Trial , please let's remember to stay FOCUSED on the subject of our Forum, Astrology.
You have to think about the visitors to the forum who come here for astrology. Not fair for them to have to scroll through multiple posts before landing on one discussing astrology or in association with the astrological submissions.
If you have something to say outside of the FOCUS of the forum, opinion wise, please make it brief, a line or 2 max.
General opinions and other non-astro related comments that are more suited for one of the other many subject threads out in CAYLEE's Main Forum, will be removed without notice.
WS Terms of SERVICE -remain ON TOPIC
FifthEssence
05-26-2011, 09:25 PM
Thanks Lynn Gweeny for providing a link to the document.
You know how we like to get Time Stamped confirmations. Thank you!!
A chart won't be necessary at this time although the confirmed times may be useful at a later date.
Frigga
05-27-2011, 10:15 AM
I almost fell off my chair when Jose Baez said after the last sidebar before recess, "we have conceived that her daughter drowned in the pool blah, blah, blah". OMG
housemouse
05-27-2011, 11:09 AM
The transiting Moon has been squaring transiting Pluto this morning.
Tr. Moon will contact ICA's Saturn/Pluto midpoint soon - "the tragic destiny of a woman" (Ebertin)
Zoe Bogart
05-27-2011, 12:08 PM
Simon Birch (sp?), operations manager of Johnson's tow yard sworn in about 11:29:45
he resided on the premises, entry into yard always locked, after car was there 3 -4 days, he inspected vehicle from exterior, noticed no odor until he leaned on the glass to peer inside the car, at which time odor was masked inside the car, he thought it smelled of decomp. but nothing was visible in the locked car. He had no keys to inspect and law says they can't open until they are allowed lagel title to the vehicles. Said decomp is distinguishable from other odors, and he's smelled fresh bodies, decaying bodies, old garbage, rotten groceries left in cars over the years.
lunch recess called at 12:00 - Mr. Birch will return after recess
In today's postings, I've added additional stuff in case there were some points the astrologers found interesting and want to chart.
Thanks, housemouse, about transits and ICA, maybe they were making her cry earlier. :crazy:
Jenny, most broadcasts have some delay by seconds, I've noticed some websites are a bit behind others, so I'm thinking a few seconds is an allowable difference. I'm watching myfoxorlando 's caseyanthonymurdertrial.com
Oldsoul2
05-27-2011, 01:01 PM
Wow...can't watch I'm working ..thanks for the updates...kind of in the poo poo with this testimony! Finally something that sounds like real evidence!
housemouse
05-27-2011, 01:20 PM
Transiting Moon is now at 8:15 on the 45 degree sort. It is presently 1:19 PM in Orlando, Florida.
Casey's Saturn/Pluto midpoint is at 8:19 on the 45 degree sort. I will watch and post when the moon is exactly conjunct.
housemouse
05-27-2011, 01:39 PM
Checking Lee Anthony's chart, I see that transiting Sun is on his Mars/Pluto and Mars/Saturn midpoints today.
I wonder if he will be testifying this afternoon?
FifthEssence
05-27-2011, 01:41 PM
Transiting Moon is now at 8:15 on the 45 degree sort. It is presently 1:19 PM in Orlando, Florida.
Casey's Saturn/Pluto midpoint is at 8:19 on the 45 degree sort. I will watch and post when the moon is exactly conjunct.
Comment: maybe we'll see another one of her emotional responses again triggered by the Aries(Mars) Moon, anger or crying.
Wonder if the jury observes how she is capable of crying in court but was reported never showing a tear or emotional upset to anyone who was in contact w/her those few weeks after little Caylee passed.
1:41PM Mr. Birch back on the stand
housemouse
05-27-2011, 01:59 PM
Comment: maybe we'll see another one of her emotional responses again triggered by the Aries(Mars) Moon, anger or crying.
Wonder if the jury observes how she is capable of crying in court but was reported never showing a tear or emotional upset to anyone who was in contact w/her those few weeks after little Caylee passed.
1:41PM Mr. Birch back on the stand
Moon past that Saturn/Pluto midpoint, and is now coming up on her Venus/Neptune midpoint. So, is between the two of these now, linking them together.
housemouse
05-27-2011, 02:04 PM
An interesting connection between Baez and ICA -
Baez's Saturn/Pluto midpoint is conjunct Casey's Saturn/Pluto midpoint. This is so unreal!
Frigga
05-27-2011, 02:25 PM
Housemouse, what could that mean between ICA and Baez? TIA
I have Simon Birch at 1:40:16 for redirect.
housemouse
05-27-2011, 02:30 PM
Transit Moon just past GA's Saturn/Uranus midpoint.
housemouse
05-27-2011, 02:33 PM
Housemouse, what could that mean between ICA and Baez? TIA
I have Simon Birch at 1:40:16 for redirect.
I am not sure until I hear from Fifth Essence whether I should be posting interpretations at this point.
The transiting Moon is square tr. Pluto, and opposite tr. Saturn right now, forming a t-square. This should be a familiar refrain by now.
It suggests that today's testimony is very important.
FifthEssence
05-27-2011, 02:59 PM
I am not sure until I hear from Fifth Essence whether I should be posting interpretations at this point.
The transiting Moon is square tr. Pluto, and opposite tr. Saturn right now, forming a t-square. This should be a familiar refrain by now.
It suggests that today's testimony is very important.
There is no reason why you can't post astro interpretations, PLEASE, go ahead.
Thanks.
** I did not see Tricia's warning out in the main forum. Am guessing she meant unnecessary name calling of possibly the Defendant, the Team????
Will contact Administration.
housemouse
05-27-2011, 03:14 PM
This is the post from Tricia that I was referring to:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2011.05.27 TRIAL Day Four (Afternoon Session)
Zoe Bogart
05-27-2011, 03:16 PM
I am not sure until I hear from Fifth Essence whether I should be posting interpretations at this point.
The transiting Moon is square tr. Pluto, and opposite tr. Saturn right now, forming a t-square. This should be a familiar refrain by now.
It suggests that today's testimony is very important.
As I listened to all the witnesses today, without even looking at a chart, I thought the testimonies were very important to the case. Good deal. Please do give astrological interpretations, this is the astrology forum, ya' know. :wink:
FifthEssence
05-27-2011, 03:21 PM
This is the post from Tricia that I was referring to:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - 2011.05.27 TRIAL Day Four (Afternoon Session) (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6566022&postcount=4)
Please go ahead and give your ASTRO 'take' on this. We have not been having the problem in our Forum Tricia was referring to in her 'warning' out in the main Caylee forum.
Zoe Bogart
05-27-2011, 04:03 PM
GA back on the stand about 3:23 (CNN)
sidebar - just seconds
JB questions GA 3:25 (CNN)
George's Mercury (retrograde) or his third house ruler must have hard aspects because he can't think fast. He gets stumped and flustered. JB is trying to frame him and GA can't think of proper answers. :eek: Wish we had his exact birth time. He tries to answer so he doesn't look bad but doesn't know how!
About 4:12:50, JA asked a question that "saved" GA, "if you had thrown the body into the swamp, there wouldn't have been any evidence in the trunk?". This might be an important time.
Frigga
05-27-2011, 04:08 PM
What I found so far:
Pluto breaks through illusions, in search of the utter truth. These are not Saturn truths, when we see things for what they are in a mundane or material sense. Pluto probes much deeper, shining light on our darkness.
Am I on the right track?
Zoe Bogart
05-27-2011, 04:29 PM
Just read twitter post that Lee was in court when Mallory testified this morning.
TL told to stand down at 4:39 without being questioned.
Lots of hassling and bickering between FG, JB, and HHJP about text messages state wants to submit.
The stars must be lining up in a cranky way. Everyone seems to be snipping at each other.
Just dismissing the jurors and wishing them fun watching the Lightning game tonight. 4:32:51
Judge says they'll have to go over the text messages more thoroughly because he doesn't believe they are relevant.
Five minute recess 4:44:17 - they need to make copies of text msgs for judge and DT.
Frigga
05-27-2011, 04:47 PM
Was quite shocked when HHJP said in regards to the admissibility issues with the texts between ICA and Tony, "well then why didn't she just kill her parents instead to get them out of the way"!
housemouse
05-27-2011, 05:04 PM
I am so sorry, friends. I am going to have to withdraw from further participation in this forum.
There have been more problems with my return than I had expected, and my situation is not such that I can deal with these on a full time basis. My husband only has a few short years left, and I want to have quality time with him.
I have explained my reasons to Fifth Essence and Soulscape. I hope they will be able to carry on. Please know how much I regret it hasn't worked out.
Frigga
05-27-2011, 05:09 PM
Housemouse, I am so sad and sincerely sorry. I hope you and your husband will be alright. You are both in my prayers. I have loved this time with you, I am going to work hard on my studies, and will think of you and your lessons when I do~ Frigga
kcsmom76
05-27-2011, 05:11 PM
I am so sorry, friends. I am going to have to withdraw from further participation in this forum.
There have been more problems with my return than I had expected, and my situation is not such that I can deal with these on a full time basis. My husband only has a few short years left, and I want to have quality time with him.
I have explained my reasons to Fifth Essence and Soulscape. I hope they will be able to carry on. Please know how much I regret it hasn't worked out.
Thank you so much for ALL you have done. (((hugs))) and prayers for you and your husband.
Frigga
05-27-2011, 05:12 PM
The midpoint conjunction between ICA and Baez (Pluto/Saturn) brings alignment and energy to their relationship- is that correct?
I will keep you and your husband in my heart and prayers housemouse. Take care my friend.
Extrasuper
05-27-2011, 05:57 PM
I am so sorry, friends. I am going to have to withdraw from further participation in this forum.
There have been more problems with my return than I had expected, and my situation is not such that I can deal with these on a full time basis. My husband only has a few short years left, and I want to have quality time with him.
I have explained my reasons to Fifth Essence and Soulscape. I hope they will be able to carry on. Please know how much I regret it hasn't worked out.
My thoughts and prayers are with you both. Please know that I will be thinking of you and sincerely appreciate your input on WS...You will be greatly missed....
Extrasuper
05-27-2011, 06:00 PM
I am so sorry, friends. I am going to have to withdraw from further participation in this forum.
There have been more problems with my return than I had expected, and my situation is not such that I can deal with these on a full time basis. My husband only has a few short years left, and I want to have quality time with him.
I have explained my reasons to Fifth Essence and Soulscape. I hope they will be able to carry on. Please know how much I regret it hasn't worked out.
You are on my mind. My sincere thanks for your excellent participation. Both you and your husband will be in my prayers.
jojomonkey
05-27-2011, 06:01 PM
Was quite shocked when HHJP said in regards to the admissibility issues with the texts between ICA and Tony, "well then why didn't she just kill her parents instead to get them out of the way"!
Do we know if a horary chart was ever cast asking the question: "Was she planning on killing her parents?"
TakingALook
05-27-2011, 06:15 PM
An interesting connection between Baez and ICA -
Baez's Saturn/Pluto midpoint is conjunct Casey's Saturn/Pluto midpoint. This is so unreal!
Could you elaborate on this, housemouse. Not having an Astro mind or ability, I would like to hear your view of what this is saying to you. TYVM
Sorry, if you already answered this, I had not finished the thread.
Oh housemouse, I didn't see your post about leaving when I posted this either. I am so sorry, but I understand the importance of the quality time with your loved one. You both will be in my prayers and I have sincerely enjoyed your insight into this case. Thank you so much. With love and God's Blessings. Taking A Look
Zoe Bogart
05-27-2011, 06:41 PM
housemouse, we're so grateful whenever you stop by, not just because of your intellect, but because we miss you when you're not here. We understand your problems, I wish I could help, having had to take care of loved ones who were seriously and terminally ill, I understand. It's draining, there's no time for anything else. Please know we'll keeping thinking of you and dear Mr. Mouse.
I'm so very grateful for all you've done for us. Take care and try to get some assistance. :blowkiss:
Zoe Bogart
05-27-2011, 06:43 PM
Moon past that Saturn/Pluto midpoint, and is now coming up on her Venus/Neptune midpoint. So, is between the two of these now, linking them together.
This could explain all the flirty chumminess we saw today. Let's not forget, they have a Venus/Neptune connection in their natal charts, if I remember correctly. Mood swings, I think.
Check this out, a heated exchange between Baez and Casey:
http://www.wesh.com/r-video/28051347/detail.html
I commented about this at the time. At first, they were all chummy, flirting, she was giddy, suddenly, they stood up and this exchange happened. Here's the post I made about it earlier:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Forensic Astrology - CAYLEE ANTHONY Reported missing 7/15/2008 #16
Or maybe they had two spats today?
Soulscape
05-27-2011, 06:50 PM
Do we know if a horary chart was ever cast asking the question: "Was she planning on killing her parents?"
No horary charts concerning questions such as these are in the works at this time.
It is all we can do to keep up with what is transpiring daily at this trial.
Again, I express my gratitude to everyone who is taking the time to clock the activities. It is most appreciated.
Thanks,
Soulscape
Soulscape
05-27-2011, 07:03 PM
Moon past that Saturn/Pluto midpoint, and is now coming up on her Venus/Neptune midpoint. So, is between the two of these now, linking them together.
As Housemouse told us earlier, Ebertin interprets SATURN/PLUTO = MOON as "the tragic destiny of a woman."
For VENUS/NEPTUNE = MOON, Ebertin gives the following:
...a chaotic emotional life
...a dreamy nature
...an inclination to be influenced or led easily by other people
...a renouncing, unhappy or disappointed woman
Put together, we could be looking at the "tragic destiny" of a "renouncing, unhappy or disappointed woman," one with a "chaotic emotional life, dreamy nature, and an inclination to be easily led/influenced by others."
Thanks,
Soulscape
savannahanna
05-27-2011, 07:57 PM
I am so sorry, friends. I am going to have to withdraw from further participation in this forum.
There have been more problems with my return than I had expected, and my situation is not such that I can deal with these on a full time basis. My husband only has a few short years left, and I want to have quality time with him.
I have explained my reasons to Fifth Essence and Soulscape. I hope they will be able to carry on. Please know how much I regret it hasn't worked out.
Dear Housemouse,
Thank you for all the inspiration, knowledge, patience that you have graced this forum with. I personally am so appreciative of your time and talent that you have so willing shared. Blessings and hugs a plenty to you and Mr. Houseman. Our first priority is our love ones and Mr. Housemouse must be a wonderful person to have found you and vice versa!:seeya:
Sincerely,
Savannahanna
Leomoon80
05-27-2011, 09:02 PM
Dear Housemouse,
Thank you for all the inspiration, knowledge, patience that you have graced this forum with. I personally am so appreciative of your time and talent that you have so willing shared. Blessings and hugs a plenty to you and Mr. Houseman. Our first priority is our love ones and Mr. Housemouse must be a wonderful person to have found you and vice versa!:seeya:
Sincerely,
Savannahanna
Ditto from me.
I enjoyed your posts very much, and your delivery was always appreciated by me which seemed to be quite fair and unbiased for Astrologers.
Best to you and yours,
leomoon
dreamweaver
05-27-2011, 09:58 PM
I am so sorry, friends. I am going to have to withdraw from further participation in this forum.
There have been more problems with my return than I had expected, and my situation is not such that I can deal with these on a full time basis. My husband only has a few short years left, and I want to have quality time with him.
I have explained my reasons to Fifth Essence and Soulscape. I hope they will be able to carry on. Please know how much I regret it hasn't worked out.
Oh housemouse, I will miss you, yet again.
I do understand the need to be with family members who are sick.
It takes time and energy and unexpected events always happen.
Enjoy your time with Mr Housemouse. I hope you two have many more years together.
Take care of yourself also!!
Andromeda
05-27-2011, 10:28 PM
housemouse, thank you so much for your input and guidance. I'm relatively new to this forum and I'm just becoming familiar with everyone, i.e., Soulscape, Leomoon, Fifthessence and Tuba (I hope I haven't missed anyone!). Tuba, if you are reading, I hope you are well! You are missed!
I have to google everything. I have no idea if I'm on track but his is what I found for:
Saturn/Pluto midpoint
In the Saturn/Pluto midpoint, we see Pluto taking Saturn to its extreme...Saturn represents a control factor that often manifests in delays, frustrations, limitations, etc. Pluto’s contact to it takes these potentials to an extreme so we have a very powerfully debilitating midpoint picture in Saturn/Pluto, especially when it involves the inner planets or Angles.
In short I interpret both of them feeling debilitated not just with the situation, but that they are at loggerheads with each other (because both of their saturn/pluto midpoints came together at the same time).
I'm probably way off base, but that's what I'm thinking, LOLOL...
Thank you so much everyone. I love this forum. Try as I may I just don't have a knack for forensic astrology but I love reading your thoughts and interpretations. You are all awesome!
I'm in another country otherwise I'd be helping out with times, etc.
Thanks again.
Soulscape
05-27-2011, 11:20 PM
Below we examine Casey's week in review from an astrological perspective, focusing on transits to her natal chart. Not every descriptor manifested, but some certainly were observable.
Note the descriptors exact on this upcoming Sunday May 29 2011 and watch for possible manifestation when the trial resumes.
************************************************** *****
TRANSITING MARS OPPOSITION RADIX PLUTO
Exact May 20 2011
Powerful drives. The urge for dominance and territory. Obsessions. Extreme efforts. Sexual responses. The desire to mate. Efforts at personal transformation. Medical procedures. Strategic thinking -- plans for control.
TRANSITING MARS SESQUISQUARE RADIX URANUS
Exact May 20 2011
Rugged individualism. The will to fight for one's freedom from restraint. Technical and mechanical problems and solutions. Inner tension and stress. Impulsive actions. Efforts to meet personal needs and interests. Accidental conditions.
TRANSITING MARS SEMISQUARE RADIX MERCURY
Exact May 22 2011
Agitated mind. Working under stress. Pressure to solve problems. Hectic conditions. The necessity to get things done rapidly. Irritations. Injuries. Impulsive reactions, anger, hostility, conflicts of interest, etc. Criticism and sarcasm.
TRANSITING MARS SESQUISQUARE RADIX MARS
Exact May 25 2011
Strong survival instincts. Self-preservation, often at any cost. Assertive and aggressive behavior. Competition with others. Direct action and communication -- lack of diplomacy. Injuries and accidents. Construction difficulties.
TRANSITING MARS SEMISQUARE RADIX SUN
Exact May 29 2011
High energy output. Difficulties in controlling energy release. The urge to take action, often without thinking. Self-preservation urges. Conflicts/arguments. Ego competition. Physical injury or illness. Muscular stress. Bodily reactions.
*************************************
Thanks,
Soulscape
marlame
05-28-2011, 02:33 AM
I am so sorry, friends. I am going to have to withdraw from further participation in this forum.
There have been more problems with my return than I had expected, and my situation is not such that I can deal with these on a full time basis. My husband only has a few short years left, and I want to have quality time with him.
I have explained my reasons to Fifth Essence and Soulscape. I hope they will be able to carry on. Please know how much I regret it hasn't worked out.
housemouse,
I miss you already :hug:...just having you back for the last couple of weeks has been a GIFT! It is because of the Forensic Astrology thread that I joined Websleuths and I have enjoyed every minute. Your keen knowledge on astrology is truly inspiring and your patience with all of us in the infant stages of learning is most sincerely appreciated. :grouphug: We will be in good hands with Fifthessence and Soulscape, Leomoon, (Tuba--when she returns) and all of the other astrologers who pop in here and post from time to time. And when you return again you may just find us a little wiser in our astrological interpretations. ;)
May you stay strong and treasure your time with mr. housemouse! I will think of you often and I will pray for hope, peace, and love for you throughout this time.
Much love to you... :blowkiss:
MarlaMe
sirensong
05-28-2011, 04:27 AM
The transiting Moon has been squaring transiting Pluto this morning.
Tr. Moon will contact ICA's Saturn/Pluto midpoint soon - "the tragic destiny of a woman" (Ebertin)
Sounds satisfying! I'm excited, lol
sirensong
05-28-2011, 04:58 AM
Sorry, I took it a face value and thought ICA 's outcome would be a tragedy for her!
Soulscape
05-28-2011, 01:04 PM
If anyone here can read lips, please view below raw video (no sound) at wftv.com and translate for us.
http://www.wftv.com/video/28058178/index.html
Thank you,
Soulscape
FifthEssence
05-28-2011, 01:18 PM
If anyone here can read lips, please view below raw video (no sound) at wftv.com and translate for us.
http://www.wftv.com/video/28058178/index.html
Thank you,
Soulscape
EVENT happen around 10:28 during a recess
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137560&page=16
they are discussing reading lips in the thread, what some believe she was saying.
Soulscape
05-28-2011, 01:24 PM
Below we examine Casey's week in review from an astrological perspective, focusing on transits to her natal chart. Not every descriptor manifested, but some certainly were observable.
Note the descriptors exact on this upcoming Sunday May 29 2011 and watch for possible manifestation when the trial resumes.
************************************************** *****
...
TRANSITING MARS SESQUISQUARE RADIX MARS
Exact May 25 2011
Strong survival instincts. Self-preservation, often at any cost. Assertive and aggressive behavior. Competition with others. Direct action and communication -- lack of diplomacy. Injuries and accidents. Construction difficulties.
TRANSITING MARS SEMISQUARE RADIX SUN
Exact May 29 2011
High energy output. Difficulties in controlling energy release. The urge to take action, often without thinking. Self-preservation urges. Conflicts/arguments. Ego competition. Physical injury or illness. Muscular stress. Bodily reactions.
...
Quoting myself above, notice the descriptors bolded from the exact 'hits' on Wednesday May 25 (Day 2 of actual trial) and tomorrow, Sunday 5/29.
Today Saturday 5/28, the transit to natal which becomes exact tomorrow, Sunday 5/29, is applying. This means the energies are building.
From what I've reviewed so far regarding this morning's court session, it would appear that several of these descriptors manifested.
Thanks,
Soulscape
TakingALook
05-28-2011, 02:48 PM
If anyone here can read lips, please view below raw video (no sound) at wftv.com and translate for us.
http://www.wftv.com/video/28058178/index.html
Thank you,
Soulscape
Looking at the Video again, NOTICE at the :05 - :10 START -- JB's right hand finger -- he is scolding her and walks away, after that she turns to can't think of her name (sorry) and points to the court gallery and then starts with the frustration and tears and fit.
Found this New Thread related to just that 2011.05.28 - KC upset during break when CA testifies - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community--
It looked like at some point she said MOTHER ?? Maybe some of the media picked up on this. I will keep an eye out for something on the Outburst.
Frigga
05-28-2011, 04:21 PM
Looking at the Video again, NOTICE at the :05 - :10 START -- JB's right hand finger -- he is scolding her and walks away, after that she turns to can't think of her name (sorry) and points to the court gallery and then starts with the frustration and tears and fit.
Found this New Thread related to just that 2011.05.28 - KC upset during break when CA testifies - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137902)--
It looked like at some point she said MOTHER ?? Maybe some of the media picked up on this. I will keep an eye out for something on the Outburst.
post # 117 of the KC upset thread linked above has the best description I have read so far. Waiting on a lip reader in Puffsters house to translate and post for us, but don't know when that may occur. I'll check in periodically or send Puffster a PM in the future if need be.
Frigga
05-28-2011, 04:23 PM
I would love to share a picture here, but don't know if it is ok. Will wait to hear before posting anything~ frigga
katydid23
05-28-2011, 04:27 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/romancingthestone/OPENINGSTMTPROSECUTIONfinal.jpg
SOULSCAPE says:
Prosecution uttered their opening words at the Casey Anthony Murder Trial this morning, May 24, 2011 in Orlando, FL at 9:12 am. The chart produced shows at that exact time, the MIDHEAVEN 28 Pisces is partile conjunct Casey Anthony's natal SUN, 28 Pisces.
Further, ASCENDANT degree 10 Cancer is close conjunct Casey Anthony's natal MOON 07 Cancer (sunrise position), and may possibly be her natal MOON's true degree.
The MIDHEAVEN symbolizes what comes before the Public Eye (and in this chart, the Judge, as well).
With her natal MOON close conjunct this chart's ASCENDANT, we may expect to clearly see the emotional impact of this trial upon Casey Anthony.
*** Add'l analysis will follow later today
*
I spent the day studying the two charts of the Opening Statements. I looked at them in terms of the ascendant and the rulers of such, and strength of their co-rulers and of the major angles. I have to say I am bit concerned about the 2 charts at this time.
The Prosecution Opening Statement chart has a 10 degree Cancer rising ascendent. That makes the Moon the ruler of the chart. [and that makes the moon's influence especially powerful as usually the chart will have a co-ruler, which would always be the moon. ] So the Moon has powerful double significance to the Prosecution in this trial.
The Moon signifies the Mother and Child and the protector of family. Thus the state is speaking for the family in this case, and coming forcefully to their defense. They will set out a very emotional message in their prosecution of this case. So we look to the Moon, as the ruler of the ascendant, and see where it is placed and how it is aspected to see what may unfold.
Remember that the moon was in Pisces for everyone that day, however the Prosecution opened their case when Cancer was rising, thus the Moon becomes their 'RULER' or significator. [ As opposed to the DT, whose opening was during Virgo rising, and thus has Mercury as their ruler/]
So we see that the Moon is @ 0Pisces24 and EXACTLY applying to a conjunction to Neptune @ 0Pisces54. We can interpret this conjunction as actually being enveloped by that Neptune. We would say that because they are so close together, they are applying and not separating,they are at Zero degrees, and Neptune is the dispositor of the Moon because it rules Pisces naturally. On top of that, the conjunction is taking place in the 9th house, which is also a domain of Pisces, as Jupiter corules it.
In other words, the Moon, the ruler of the Prosecutions opening statements, is totally enveloped and immersed in Neptunian energy. In other words, lies and deceit and allusions are swallowing the Prosecutions case somewhat. This may be a problem for a little while, however there is a breakthrough that seems to be upcoming. That Moon will pass over the Neptune and semi-sextile Uranus and square the Sun. That is a crisis point and it may be a tough battle, but it at least clears out some of the subterfuge.
That square to the Sun in Gemini in the 11th may be something with the jury as the 11th signifies community minds and the Uranus in the 10th may signify the judge.
The 10th house rules the court and the judge. Having Pisces on the MC is good in one way because that is the same sign as the Moon/Neptune conjunction. So in some ways the state feels like they are on the same page as the judge. However, the MC is 28 degree Pisces, so it is changing signs,and then there is this Uranus @ 3 Aries. That scares me a little and makes me think the judge will have some surprises that do not sit well with the state. That Aries energy may be concerned with preserving their rulings in case of appeals, and not be as concerned with allowing the jury to see everything the state has to offer. The 10th house changing from pisces to aries means the judge may become kind of unpredictable and it may impact the states case.There may be some sudden reversals of their opinion or erratic decisions which do not sit well with the state. However that Uranus also squares the Pluto, which denotes the DT in this chart, so they feel the brunt of it in the end, imo.
As the first house rules the state, the 7th house rules their opponents, the DT.
We can not help but notice that formidable opponent, the Pluto sitting on the 7th house cusp, in Capricorn. Pluto goes to the deepest darkest recesses, and slays the enemy by any means necessary. Interesting that Capricorn rules the Father. Pluto in Cap says ' Slay the Father' if need be. And that Pluto is the midpoint of the Saturn/Uranus opposition. No Holds Barred. This is going to get really ugly. Ebertin says Saturn/Uranus=Pluto means " the desire to overcome a difficult situation through an extraordinary effort." The DT is going to put up a major struggle and may be much harder to overcome than once thought. Possibly because they will go as low as they need to and fight really dirty, Pluto on Capricorn style.
We look to the 1st house to see the Prosecution, the 7th to see the DT, the 10th to see the judge, and the 4th house to see the 'end of the matter.' Saturn is in the 4th in Libra, a sign of it's exaltation. Saturn in 10 libra is exalted because it means balance and justice attained. So I am hoping that in the end, the state will break through the neptunian fog that is trying to cloud the jurors eyes, and will attain JUSTICE for the child they are speaking for. Cancer is nothing if not loyal and devoted. They wear you down. I think the jury and the public might be swayed a little at first by the DT'd dirty tricks. But in the end, the truth will win out. That Moon in Pisces eventually makes a nice sextile to the Taurus stellium and steady wins the race.
Soulscape
05-28-2011, 04:44 PM
I spent the day studying the two charts of the Opening Statements. I looked at them in terms of the ascendant and the rulers of such, and strength of their co-rulers and of the major angles. I have to say I am bit concerned about the 2 charts at this time.
The Prosecution Opening Statement chart has a 10 degree Cancer rising ascendent. That makes the Moon the ruler of the chart. [and that makes the moon's influence especially powerful as usually the chart will have a co-ruler, which would always be the moon. ] So the Moon has powerful double significance to the Prosecution in this trial.
The Moon signifies the Mother and Child and the protector of family. Thus the state is speaking for the family in this case, and coming forcefully to their defense. They will set out a very emotional message in their prosecution of this case. So we look to the Moon, as the ruler of the ascendant, and see where it is placed and how it is aspected to see what may unfold.
Remember that the moon was in Pisces for everyone that day, however the Prosecution opened their case when Cancer was rising, thus the Moon becomes their 'RULER' or significator. [ As opposed to the DT, whose opening was during Virgo rising, and thus has Mercury as their ruler/]
So we see that the Moon is @ 0Pisces24 and EXACTLY applying to a conjunction to Neptune @ 0Pisces54. We can interpret this conjunction as actually being enveloped by that Neptune. We would say that because they are so close together, they are applying and not separating,they are at Zero degrees, and Neptune is the dispositor of the Moon because it rules Pisces naturally. On top of that, the conjunction is taking place in the 9th house, which is also a domain of Pisces, as Jupiter corules it.
In other words, the Moon, the ruler of the Prosecutions opening statements, is totally enveloped and immersed in Neptunian energy. In other words, lies and deceit and allusions are swallowing the Prosecutions case somewhat. This may be a problem for a little while, however there is a breakthrough that seems to be upcoming. That Moon will pass over the Neptune and semi-sextile Uranus and square the Sun. That is a crisis point and it may be a tough battle, but it at least clears out some of the subterfuge.
That square to the Sun in Gemini in the 11th may be something with the jury as the 11th signifies community minds and the Uranus in the 10th may signify the judge.
The 10th house rules the court and the judge. Having Pisces on the MC is good in one way because that is the same sign as the Moon/Neptune conjunction. So in some ways the state feels like they are on the same page as the judge. However, the MC is 28 degree Pisces, so it is changing signs,and then there is this Uranus @ 3 Aries. That scares me a little and makes me think the judge will have some surprises that do not sit well with the state. That Aries energy may be concerned with preserving their rulings in case of appeals, and not be as concerned with allowing the jury to see everything the state has to offer. The 10th house changing from pisces to aries means the judge may become kind of unpredictable and it may impact the states case.There may be some sudden reversals of their opinion or erratic decisions which do not sit well with the state. However that Uranus also squares the Pluto, which denotes the DT in this chart, so they feel the brunt of it in the end, imo.
As the first house rules the state, the 7th house rules their opponents, the DT.
We can not help but notice that formidable opponent, the Pluto sitting on the 7th house cusp, in Capricorn. Pluto goes to the deepest darkest recesses, and slays the enemy by any means necessary. Interesting that Capricorn rules the Father. Pluto in Cap says ' Slay the Father' if need be. And that Pluto is the midpoint of the Saturn/Uranus opposition. No Holds Barred. This is going to get really ugly. Ebertin says Saturn/Uranus=Pluto means " the desire to overcome a difficult situation through an extraordinary effort." The DT is going to put up a major struggle and may be much harder to overcome than once thought. Possibly because they will go as low as they need to and fight really dirty, Pluto on Capricorn style.
We look to the 1st house to see the Prosecution, the 7th to see the DT, the 10th to see the judge, and the 4th house to see the 'end of the matter.' Saturn is in the 4th in Libra, a sign of it's exaltation. Saturn in 10 libra is exalted because it means balance and justice attained. So I am hoping that in the end, the state will break through the neptunian fog that is trying to cloud the jurors eyes, and will attain JUSTICE for the child they are speaking for. Cancer is nothing if not loyal and devoted. They wear you down. I think the jury and the public might be swayed a little at first by the DT'd dirty tricks. But in the end, the truth will win out. That Moon in Pisces eventually makes a nice sextile to the Taurus stellium and steady wins the race.
Well thought out, Katydid, as well as insightful.
Thank you for your participation. I hope to see you continue to post your astrological observations as we go along.
Thank you,
Soulscape
TakingALook
05-28-2011, 05:04 PM
Katydid23, hitting the 'thanks' button wasn't enough. I sincerely appreciate your hard work here, it means so much for those of us who know nothing or very little about astrology. Again, thank you for the explanation of those charts, makes me feel better after what I have been watching this week. TAL
Oldsoul2
05-28-2011, 05:34 PM
Very interesting testimony from Cindy regarding the pool. She talked about the ladder on June 15th, that she went swimming with Caylee that day and put down the ladder when she was finished around early evening.
CA: "The grass never grew back in a certain section of the yard since 2008...."
Thank you so much Katydid23.....that's exactly the way it was looking to me
katydid23
05-28-2011, 06:13 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v724/romancingthestone/DEFENSEOpeningStmt114pmjpeg.jpg[
SOULSCAPE wrote:
We had been told in advance to expect 'shocking' revelations' from Defense at Casey Anthony's murder trial, revelations that would 'immediately' clarify what 'really happened.'
The chart produced shows 29 Libra on the 3rd House cusp, symbolizing the Statement itself. This suggests Defense is making an 'end of their rope,' last-ditch effort to save Casey's gluteus maximus. To paraphrase a comment I made upthread, the 29th degree of any sign is the End of the Train Ride.
Scorpio of sexual abuse is intercepted within the 3rd House of Statements, and wouldn't you know it, Defense spoke of secret/hidden (interception) sexual abuse, and deep, twisted family secrets (Scorpio).
Lord 3 of Statements VENUS and Lord Intercepted 3 of Statements MARS are partile conjunct at 10 Taurus in the 9th House of the Jury, putting the 'real story' (3rd House) directly in front of the Jurors. However, note well that VENUS partile conjunct MARS 10 Taurus are also partile inconjunct SATURN RX 10 Libra.
SATURN RX may signify (among other things) a dead (Rx) 5th House Child (Capricorn on 5th House cusp), a testimony fortified by SATURN's partile conjunction to the notorious Death Star VINDEMIATRIX 10 Libra, a.k.a. The Widowmaker & significator of death in the family.
The inconjunct from the 3rd House Words/Story/Statement Lords to Lord 5 the Child translates as a complete disconnect. Further, I see nothing in this chart to persuade me that Defense's 'story' may be true.
Thanks,
Soulscape
***further analysis will follow later.
Defense Opening Statement Chart;
As we saw the Prosecution being signified by Cancer rising, the Defense Team is represented by Virgo rising, and Mercury becomes the ruler of the chart. Virgo is the Virgin Maiden, the Damsel in Distress. And that is who Baez is making the defendant out to be. The DT is speaking for a young woman in need of their services.
Mercury, the ruler of the chart, is elevated in the 9th house, and @ 13 Taurus. It is neither in detriment nor exaltation, but Mercury does not always exhibit it's mental quickness in Taurus. It is kind of slow and plodding and does not catch on really fast. But Mercury in Taurus does stay with it's theme, and it does stay focussed and dedicated. It is very hard to throw a Mercury in Taurus off track. And Mercury in Taurus is often underestimated. The Mercury is sitting alongside Venus, the ruler of Taurus, and thus it's dispositor. So the Venus, may very well signify the young maiden, and she may be the boss behind the Mercury mouthpiece.
The Defense is represented by the Virgo rising and it's opponent is represented by it's opposing point, 2 Degrees of Pisces. And there we see the Moon @ 2 Pisces, verification of our earlier chart of the state's opening statement, where the Moon was again the significator. In this chart it shows the Moon / Neptune conjunct the Descendant as their opponent. Thus the public's compassion and sympathy for the states case is a big hurdle for the Defense. It is overwhelming and nebulous and makes the defense very worried.
However that Moon/Neptune, which represents the state, is in an applying square to the MC/Sun/Part of Fortune in Gemini. So the state will have it's own hands full with technical rulings and judgments coming from the bench. They will be thrown off balance by the sudden stroke of luck that seems to appear for the defense team too often. [ Part of Fortune exactly conjunct the MC]
Mercury, as chart ruler, does have some problems with it's planetary aspects however. Because it is @ 13 degrees, and almost all of the other planets are earlier degrees, most of it's aspects are separating, and not applying. So they are forced to be reactive and not proactive most all of the time. Mercury in Taurus is not at home being reactive, as it is fixed and not flexible or mutable in nature. And the Taurus stellium of personal planets are already separating from the powerful trine to Pluto in Capricorn. So their powerful last ditch effort may be weakening as opposed to strengthening. And the Venus/Mars conjunction, the strength behind the throne, is in an exact inconjunction with Saturn in Libra, which also is in mutual reception with the Venus. That strengthens the confusion somewhat.
I see that Saturn quincunx [inconjunction] as an anchor around the defense teams neck. Saturn In Libra represents THE FACTS. It is REALITY. And that quincunx says that it will be harder and harder to sell the defense story as reality as the trial unfolds. That Saturn is in a strong T-Square with the Uranus and the Pluto. They will battle it out. The Judge will send out various rulings which will help and hinder both sides. But the truth will eventually will out.
I do have a weird feeling about the 4th house in this chart, the 'end of the matters.'
There is a North Node in Sag in the 4th. Normally I would see that as Freedom in the future. I really hope that is not the literal interpretation though. Perhaps it is 'freedom' from this earth. The Jupiter in the 8th is the dispositor, so it may be that the defendant is incarcerated, but feels free at last because of other factors which burdened her. She may do well in 8th house matters, which include end of life and prisons. It remains to be seen.
Leomoon80
05-28-2011, 06:31 PM
Regarding the Defense Opening Statement Chart:
I see the POF conj. Sun in Gemini, in degrees known for telling lies and much deception
conjunct Fixed Star - MIRFAK in Perseus. About this Constellation, the web site that Anne Wright has, called Constellation of Words says among other things:
When prominent in a natal chart it is said to denote adventurous individuals, but also those who are less than honest in their dealings with others. [Fixed Stars and Judicial Astrology,by Noonan)
and of course, you can't get more prominent then on an angle at the public MC (i.e. opening statement)
The 5th of children has Vertex (a fated event or person) conjunct Pluto (death)
And Fixed star FOMALHAUT (An Immortal Name conferred) is on the cusp of the 7th the Angle or Descendent, conjunct Neptune Moon and immersed in Chironic wounding and pain, (Moon conj. Chiron) here.
Leomoon80
05-28-2011, 06:51 PM
The Prosecution Opening Statement Chart reveals
Saturn brings to bear a hardship at hand, in the “end of the matter house” with Mercury ruling this house found in the 11th of the Masses quincunx this heavy obligation (Saturn) for the masses (I take it to be the public)
The 9th may be the court itself, the house which contains the Moon and Neptune within minutes of each other, trying to “sift “ through the reams of lies and deceit being discussed or which will be presented to the jury.
Pluto near the cusp of the DC is the serious nature of the charge, i.e. Death Penalty case in a very critical degree conjunct fixed star FACIES square Uranus and Saturn both, (houses 4 & 10) or parental axis houses. The Missing child (Uranus) the burden of guilt or responsible party (Saturn)
Pluto will demand from.
The Axis 6-12th houses, has Sagittarius and Gemini, the thinking signs and in the 6th ruled naturally by Virgo, will need to weigh the facts as presented here, and decide if “Hades” (TNP) the Uranian Transneptunian hypothetical planet, in the 12th of prisons and isolation, will be the end result for the young woman who is being accused in this case or Casey A.. Hades is said to be associated with "all that is unpleasant, useless, or deply buried"
It seems to be appropriate for this case as a metaphor.
With the POF in the public house or the 10th opposing Saturn and squaring Pluto, this is the State (10th house or Authority) who brings these charges to bear, and is asking for the ultimate (death) for the Defendant in the case (Moon conj. Neptune)
Hades is Trine the Moon (Chart’s ruler) and Neptune, both in the 9th suggesting they (the State and Jurors) realize how dire a case this is, and Hades is representing this in the 12th house of Isolation and in the degree of no return for C.A.
katydid23
05-28-2011, 07:45 PM
Originally Posted by smolea
ICA - (she covers her mouth)...she's protecting the man that hurt me. she's gonna sit here and protect him. she's never protected me, she's not even trying now."
DS - well she has to be given a chance, Casey...
ICA - she's been given the chance for three years, and she's done nothing!
DS - i know.
ICA - i mean, how can you say she hasn't been given the chance, she has a chance every single night.
DS - you're right, i was wrong...you're right, i was wrong.
(camera pans - cant read. DS covers her mouth)
ICA - enough to be aquitted, so i can get away from them
===============================================
This seems very accurate as well. And as someone noted, Casey gave herself away by saying ' three years.' If she was talking about needing protection from George she would have said her mom had 20 years to protect her.
But here she is complaining about her not protecting her for THREE YEARS. So she means she wants 'protection' now by having her lie. imoo
2011.05.28 - KC upset during break when CA testifies - Page 12 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
See post 276
TakingALook
05-28-2011, 09:15 PM
Katydid23, I have a question for you or any other Astro. TIA
From this portion of looking at the charts, you say: 'That square to the Sun in Gemini in the 11th may be something with the jury as the 11th signifies community minds and the Uranus in the 10th may signify the judge.
Would this chart show or reflect the jurors -- Ability in absorbing, retaining, sorting, attaching importance to, forgetting or struggling with the mass amount of info they are hearing?
What I am concerned with is, at this point in the trial, if the jurors are finding the rapid stream of witnesses, lots of testimony with sidebar interruptions to be "over whelming" – will they be able to process the testimony?
And from your studies, do you see anything else relating directly to/with the jurors? TYVM.
katydid23
05-28-2011, 09:46 PM
Katydid23, I have a question for you or any other Astro. TIA
From this portion of looking at the charts, you say: 'That square to the Sun in Gemini in the 11th may be something with the jury as the 11th signifies community minds and the Uranus in the 10th may signify the judge.
Would this chart show or reflect the jurors -- Ability in absorbing, retaining, sorting, attaching importance to, forgetting or struggling with the mass amount of info they are hearing?
What I am concerned with is, at this point in the trial, if the jurors are finding the rapid stream of witnesses, lots of testimony with sidebar interruptions to be "over whelming" – will they be able to process the testimony?
And from your studies, do you see anything else relating directly to/with the jurors? TYVM.
YES, good call. A square to Gemini Sun does sometimes indicate problems in the areas you noted.[ absorbing, retaining, sorting etc.]
HOWEVER, Gemini energy and intuition is based upon good old fashioned common sense. Nothing will convince them more than the basic set of facts, like the not reporting the child missing, and the 31 days of partying. Plain old facts and common sense will show this jury the way, imo.
Shadow5618
05-28-2011, 10:35 PM
Katydid23, you rock. As much as I admire Soulscape and Leomoon, I understand very little of what they are saying. Thank you again for translating for those of us who do not understand.
LittleBitty35
05-28-2011, 10:45 PM
I rarely post here on this thread, mostly because I marvel at it (out of my realm of expertise)...but does anyone here know where Casey was born?
FifthEssence
05-28-2011, 10:51 PM
I rarely post here on this thread, mostly because I marvel at it (out of my realm of expertise)...but does anyone here know where Casey was born?
Ohio, possibly? Warren, Ohio
LittleBitty35
05-28-2011, 10:53 PM
Ohio, possibly? Warren, Ohio
TY! :) But not Austintown? Just checking...
Oldsoul2
05-28-2011, 11:04 PM
Finally Cindy's out of denial. She specifically said that she stopped looking for the famous Zanny only SIX WEEKS AGO! I guess she finally came to terms.
Lake Erie Princess
05-28-2011, 11:10 PM
The entire family is from Austintown.
TakingALook
05-28-2011, 11:28 PM
OT, But Astro's might find some valuable info via this radio show;
THIS SUNDAY ON WEBSLEUTHS RADIO OUR GUEST WILL BE ATTORNEY RICHARD HORNSBY
Zoe Bogart
05-29-2011, 07:24 AM
Sometime ago when we did the charts for the family, it was discovered they were from Niles, Ohio, and at least Lee was born in Warren. These towns are in Trumbull County. Austintown is in Mahoning County. These places are a stone's throw from each other, as the crow flies, so I guess it's close enough to say, yeah, they're from Austintown.
George worked for the Trumbull County Sheriff's Office located in Warren, I believe. He lived in both Warren and Niles, and was twice married in Trumbull County, as well as divorced there. (This information was posted somewhere on WS early in the case.)
Cindy's family lived in Warren and Niles, and decades ago they were in Cleveland and very early in the last century, long before Cindy was born, they were in Austinburg, Ashtabula County, which is much further north than Warren, near Lake Erie. I hope this helps and is allowed since it's ancient information and available in public records. It only took me minutes to find.
By some bizarre twist of fate, George once lived on Old Cheney Hwy (Florida). I'll bet the stars are winking at us.
smolea
05-29-2011, 11:25 AM
thought i would post this here as well...
ICA - (she covers her mouth)...she's protecting the man that hurt me. she's gonna sit here and protect him. she's never protected me, she's not even trying now."
DS - well she has to be given a chance, Casey...
ICA - she's been given the chance for three years, and she's done nothing!
DS - i know.
ICA - i mean, how can you say she hasn't been given the chance, she has a chance every single night.
DS - you're right, i was wrong...you're right, i was wrong.
(camera pans - cant read. DS covers her mouth)
ICA - enough to be aquitted, so i can get away from them.
a little iffy on the first line...
ICA - i've wanted for them to help me but i cant get out when she's with my dad. and that hurts so bad. she hasn't looked at me once the entire time she was making her cry. (looks at LDB)
ICA (to CM) - yeah, she did the other day. she was looking at him, she hasn't done any of that for me. i really think she's just doing it to do it for her, sh'e not doing it for Caylee - she's doing it wrong.
hard to read the last part since she's wiping her face.
ETA: just a reference to my own chart - i have moon in gemini trine pluto in libra conjunct the midheaven :]
Finally Cindy's out of denial. She specifically said that she stopped looking for the famous Zanny only SIX WEEKS AGO! I guess she finally came to terms with what really happened from something she was told. I have to say I was heart broken watching her duress today.
If I remember correctly their atty has been doing interviews since this trial started. He has stated a few times that his clients found out what the DT was going to do 6 weeks ago. Remember he said they'd sue for slandering GA... No more Zanny now...
I'll be attempting to post my interps on some charts later today when I get to my home PC. I do a lot of charts but never post them cause I'm a bit shy and afraid I'm doing them wrong BUT I'm never gonna learn if I don't.
katydid23
05-29-2011, 09:45 PM
If I remember correctly their atty has been doing interviews since this trial started. He has stated a few times that his clients found out what the DT was going to do 6 weeks ago. Remember he said they'd sue for slandering GA... No more Zanny now...
I'll be attempting to post my interps on some charts later today when I get to my home PC. I do a lot of charts but never post them cause I'm a bit shy and afraid I'm doing them wrong BUT I'm never gonna learn if I don't.
It is absolutely a great way to learn. Astrology relies upon the 'art' of interpretation. It is not black and white, it is way too complicated to be seen or explained in a linear fashion. Study the charts.Things may not unfold exactly as you expect but some of it might, and that is how you and everyone else here learns.
momshrink
05-30-2011, 06:58 AM
Thanks to all of the wonderful interpretations! I have missed too much with work taking me away from watching the trial and computer out for repair so I could not catch up until now.
HouseMouse, I hope you are still reading here so you see this: You were the one who pulled me into WebSleuths three years ago (almost) and I have so appreciated all of the insight into this case that you have provided. Please take care of yourself while you are caring for Mr. HouseMouse.
Intermezzo
05-30-2011, 07:28 AM
No LINKS up yet and we won't see the Motion until Tuesday, at the earliest, when the Courts re-open
It was reported on the local news last night (no links up yet) that Lee Anthony's attorney(don't know who that is yet) will be filing a motion to have the rule of sequestration waived so he can sit in the court room also.
cecybeans
05-30-2011, 12:07 PM
TY! :) But not Austintown? Just checking...
Article in the Examiner about GA's sister and brother-in-law who disbelieve and are upset about the sex abuse allegations.
They are from Austintown (see end of article). (Dun dun DUNNNN!)
(article link to Examiner in Astro CayleeTime-Stamped thread)
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Astrology-CASEY and CAYLEE TimeStamped Media,Doc Links*NO DISCUSSIONS*#3
Oldsoul2
05-30-2011, 09:56 PM
VOC Moon on Tuesday, May 31st, from 11:37 AM EDT, with the Moon's last aspect before changing signs (a conjunction to Mercury), until the Moon enters Gemini ( Cindy's sun sign) at 7:57 PM EDT on Wednesday. Communications, daily interactions...This eclipse is about new beginnings regarding all of these matters. Something ends in order for something else to start anew. We may be called to give up something in order to move forward into a new chapter in our lives. Although the "new" may be unrecognizable, it is important to allow the necessary surrender to the unknown. let's see what happens next.....
Thanks Smolea for posting this I was trying to understand what she was openly saying.
she's never protected me, she's not even trying now."
What she is really saying: Why isn't she lying for me now that the trial is here...
she's been given the chance for three years, and she's done nothing!
What she is really saying: It's been three years that she has been protecting me and now she's not! (what about her whole life..it only matters for the last THREE YEARS!)
i mean, how can you say she hasn't been given the chance, she has a chance every single night.
What she is really saying: I could have convinced him otherwise if I was able to get my hands on him on a daily basis
i've wanted for them to help me but i cant get out when she's with my dad
What she is really saying: I could have suckered her (Cindy bought every excuse KC fed her) if dad would stop influencing her (dad has the control, I do not)
Poor KC...counted on her mother to turn on her father...as usual (GA said he would get divorced over this in regards to the bringing the car home and telling Cindy he would discuss it with KC) Counted on her mother begging for her forgiveness because she refused her visits and turned her away Counted on her mothers' support and denial believing she had her mother in her control Counted on GA's fear of Cindy....that is really why she went crazy when her mother got off the stand. IMO
Cindy and George...you have finally truly found God...bless you
Paulette
05-30-2011, 11:24 PM
Casey's 2011 Solar Return had "Cayley" Rx 12:27 Libra sextile "Dike" (Goddess of justice) 12:27 Leo. The position of "Cayley" is 12:21 Libra in her natal chart. Now what do you think the odds are on "Cayley" retrograding back to her mom's natal postion in the year she's going to trial for her murder? 1/360 = 2.78 to the negative third, times I-don't-know-what (life expectancy maybe). I can see a return to natal position, like a Venus return, but to retrograde to the exact spot gives me chills.
"Cayley" in the Indictment chart is 27:47 SAG, in the Proseution Opening Statement chart Jupiter 27:40 Aries is trine the Indictment position.
"Cayley" continued retrograding until May 23 10:26 pm, and settled at 2:12 Libra.
CatMom
05-31-2011, 01:04 AM
Casey's 2011 Solar Return had "Cayley" Rx 12:27 Libra sextile "Dike" (Goddess of justice) 12:27 Leo. The position of "Cayley" is 12:21 Libra in her natal chart. Now what do you think the odds are on "Cayley" retrograding back to her mom's natal postion in the year she's going to trial for her murder? 1/360 = 2.78 to the negative third, times I-don't-know-what (life expectancy maybe). I can see a return to natal position, like a Venus return, but to retrograde to the exact spot gives me chills.
"Cayley" in the Indictment chart is 27:47 SAG, in the Proseution Opening Statement chart Jupiter 27:40 Aries is trine the Indictment position.
"Cayley" continued retrograding until May 23 10:26 pm, and settled at 2:12 Libra.
Hi,
I am new at Astrology, and still learning. I am confused regarding the retrograding back. What does that mean?
Thank you in advance
What does that mean?
Paulette
05-31-2011, 01:26 AM
Hi,
I am new at Astrology, and still learning. I am confused regarding the retrograding back. What does that mean?
Thank you in advance
What does that mean?
“Retrograde” means that, from the Earth’s viewpoint, the planet in question visually appears to pause, then begin moving backward through its normal path across the sky. Of course, the planets don’t actually change direction, but since the Earth is considered to be the center of our universe in geocentric astrology, which is what we use in this guide, we only care about our perspective from here."
"When a planet goes retrograde, the issues reflected by that planet as it travels back through the sign (or signs) tend to have you revisiting the experiences you had when it moved across that point in its original forward movement."
http://www.inlightimes.com/archives/2008/10/retrograde.htm
Read the entire 2nd paragraph at the above link. Very interesting.
CatMom
05-31-2011, 01:34 PM
“Retrograde” means that, from the Earth’s viewpoint, the planet in question visually appears to pause, then begin moving backward through its normal path across the sky. Of course, the planets don’t actually change direction, but since the Earth is considered to be the center of our universe in geocentric astrology, which is what we use in this guide, we only care about our perspective from here."
"When a planet goes retrograde, the issues reflected by that planet as it travels back through the sign (or signs) tend to have you revisiting the experiences you had when it moved across that point in its original forward movement."
http://www.inlightimes.com/archives/2008/10/retrograde.htm
Read the entire 2nd paragraph at the above link. Very interesting.
Thank you now I understand that better!
I have a question, are we using the time of 6:33 am sunrise for ICA birth chart instead of noon? I'm assuming that the same for CA at 7:14 am as well? Gosh I would drive to Ohio if I could get copies of these :-) Sry for asking but I'm having a hard time sifting thru the calendar. TIA
Zoe Bogart
05-31-2011, 04:02 PM
I have a question, are we using the time of 6:33 am sunrise for ICA birth chart instead of noon? I'm assuming that the same for CA at 7:14 am as well? Gosh I would drive to Ohio if I could get copies of these :-) Sry for asking but I'm having a hard time sifting thru the calendar. TIA
Yes, we are using sunrise charts for everyone but Caylee. We only have her time of birth.
FifthEssence
05-31-2011, 05:08 PM
I have a question, are we using the time of 6:33 am sunrise for ICA birth chart instead of noon? I'm assuming that the same for CA at 7:14 am as well? Gosh I would drive to Ohio if I could get copies of these :-) Sry for asking but I'm having a hard time sifting thru the calendar. TIA
Yes, the Casey's chart in post #2 of this thread has the 6:33 sunrise time.
When true time of birth is unknown, Astros use sunrise or noon times. depending on what they are most comfortable with.
eta:Remember, the ASCENDANT cannot be determined without true time of birth, therefore we don't know the Houses where the planets have impact, where their energies manifest.
katydid23
05-31-2011, 05:46 PM
Yes, the Casey's chart in post #2 of this thread has the 6:33 sunrise time.
When true time of birth is unknown, Astros use sunrise or noon times. depending on what they are most comfortable with.
I used to always use Sunrise charts, but then another astrologer pointed out one advantage to noon charts. The Moon and the fast moving planets will be at their midpoint, so there is a better chance to be more accurate if the person happens to be born late at night. [ I probably did not explain that right.]
If you use noon then no matter if the person was born at sunrise or midnight, the moon will be closer to their natal placement. FWIW
FifthEssence
05-31-2011, 07:55 PM
NOTE:
NEW THREAD specifically for the TIMED LOGS for each day during the Trail. No discussions in that thread except of course, the description for the Time noted. ie. Jury walks in, side bar, witness xxx gets sworn in, specific reaction of Casey, Judge on last nerve....
here:Forensic Astrology-CAYLEE ANTHONY-TIMED Notations Court Room activity-"NO DISCUSSIONS - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
I'll be moving the accumulated LOGs over to that dedicated thread shortly..
This way, visitors who come here for Astro discussions won't have to thumb through multiple posts to get to the FOCUS of this Caylee Astro thread.
TakingALook
05-31-2011, 08:43 PM
FE, I am not posting the times that I logged today because they match with yours.
But, I want to bring something to everyones attention. We have a member here at WS who is not SHY where the A's are concerned (from what I have read of her posts within the threads). Maybe, once CA finishes her testimony and has time to pull herself together, we could get this WS member to ask her the time of day that ICA was born? Just a thought and wishful thinking, but I think this person would do it if we ask her to approach CA with this question. What are your thoughts????
FifthEssence
05-31-2011, 10:28 PM
FE, I am not posting the times that I logged today because they match with yours.
But, I want to bring something to everyones attention. We have a member here at WS who is not SHY where the A's are concerned (from what I have read of her posts within the threads). Maybe, once CA finishes her testimony and has time to pull herself together, we could get this WS member to ask her the time of day that ICA was born? Just a thought and wishful thinking, but I think this person would do it if we ask her to approach CA with this question. What are your thoughts????
Of course the optimal situation when casting a Natal chart would be to have a confirmed birth time and location.
If you haven't already inquired, I would suggest you find out if that person is 'verified' by WS Administration as someone on the inside, very closely connected to one of the parties. first things first.
Beyond that, I don't have an answer for you at this time.
Thanks! .
pittsburghgirl
05-31-2011, 10:43 PM
Casey's 2011 Solar Return had "Cayley" Rx 12:27 Libra sextile "Dike" (Goddess of justice) 12:27 Leo. The position of "Cayley" is 12:21 Libra in her natal chart. Now what do you think the odds are on "Cayley" retrograding back to her mom's natal postion in the year she's going to trial for her murder? 1/360 = 2.78 to the negative third, times I-don't-know-what (life expectancy maybe). I can see a return to natal position, like a Venus return, but to retrograde to the exact spot gives me chills.
"Cayley" in the Indictment chart is 27:47 SAG, in the Proseution Opening Statement chart Jupiter 27:40 Aries is trine the Indictment position.
"Cayley" continued retrograding until May 23 10:26 pm, and settled at 2:12 Libra.
And of course, Saturn is currently sitting at 10:32 Libra, in its exaltation. Justice will be served.
passionflower
05-31-2011, 11:00 PM
NEW MOON June 1, 2011 03:02:52 PM
rbrnmw2
06-01-2011, 07:05 AM
Ohio, possibly? Warren, Ohio
I read somewhere Niles Ohio which is in Trumball County Ohio IIRC
Leomoon80
06-01-2011, 06:00 PM
People in the astro communities are discussing G.A. Nessus in his natal chart as well as the Midpoints between his Synastry with C.A. as for mitigation of the defense and it's charges against him., as well as the defense's contention that GA helped hide the death of Cayley Anthony.
I've not used NESSUS myself in the charts although it's easily added on as an important asteroid at astro.com along with the Black Moon, Lilith and other options one might add. , but I must say, there is a lot to be gained and at least thought about now that these charges have been brought to light, for being unbiased when it comes to Astrology delineations and the charts of all parties who had access to Cayley (the victim) as you all know.
Here is a little I've found about Nessus today online:
Asteroids: Nessus, (sex abuse)
“Nessus is the energy of abuse as would happen in a rape. It is amoral abuse. Nessus takes what it wants from a person without regard for that person at all.”
From: http://www.astroknowlogy.com/questions/what-is-the-influence-of-the-asteroid-nessus
As for the natal chart (and I wish we had times of birth ) of all being accused,(i.e. State blames CA and Defense blames G.A. ) but we do not as of today, have the times of birth yet.
Composite Chart of C.A. and her father, G.A. reveals:
Venus square Pluto, Sun/Nessus - midpoint conjunct to Venus
Moon/Saturn Midpoint is also square to Nessus
Zoe Bogart
06-01-2011, 08:00 PM
I used to always use Sunrise charts, but then another astrologer pointed out one advantage to noon charts. The Moon and the fast moving planets will be at their midpoint, so there is a better chance to be more accurate if the person happens to be born late at night. [ I probably did not explain that right.]
If you use noon then no matter if the person was born at sunrise or midnight, the moon will be closer to their natal placement. FWIW
Yes, that's true. I sometimes "move around the clock" for birth time unknown, meaning I might use 3am, sunrise, noon, 6pm, etc., just to see what the chart will look like at those times. I do this for natal charts of unknown time of birth. In our case here, though, using sunrise gives a good idea of what influenced the entire day. Neither way is incorrect, though.
Zoe Bogart
06-01-2011, 08:40 PM
People in the astro communities are discussing G.A. Nessus in his natal chart as well as the Midpoints between his Synastry with C.A. as for mitigation of the defense and it's charges against him., as well as the defense's contention that GA helped hide the death of Cayley Anthony.
I've not used NESSUS myself in the charts although it's easily added on as an important asteroid at astro.com along with the Black Moon, Lilith and other options one might add. , but I must say, there is a lot to be gained and at least thought about now that these charges have been brought to light, for being unbiased when it comes to Astrology delineations and the charts of all parties who had access to Cayley (the victim) as you all know.
Here is a little I've found about Nessus today online:
Asteroids: Nessus, (sex abuse)
Quote:
“Nessus is the energy of abuse as would happen in a rape. It is amoral abuse. Nessus takes what it wants from a person without regard for that person at all.”
From: http://www.astroknowlogy.com/questions/what-is-the-influence-of-the-asteroid-nessus
As for the natal chart (and I wish we had times of birth ) of all being accused,(i.e. State blames CA and Defense blames G.A. ) but we do not as of today, have the times of birth yet.
Composite Chart of C.A. and her father, G.A. reveals:
Venus square Pluto, Sun/Nessus - midpoint conjunct to Venus
Moon/Saturn Midpoint is also square to Nessus
Thanks for bringing this here. I must say, though, I always though GA was a bit less than "active" (JB, take note, quotes). I never really looked into it astrologically, though. Perhaps I should, although without the crucial time of birth, any answers would be less than perfect.
salvarenga
06-01-2011, 08:52 PM
People in the astro communities are discussing G.A. Nessus in his natal chart as well as the Midpoints between his Synastry with C.A. as for mitigation of the defense and it's charges against him., as well as the defense's contention that GA helped hide the death of Cayley Anthony.
I've not used NESSUS myself in the charts although it's easily added on as an important asteroid at astro.com along with the Black Moon, Lilith and other options one might add. , but I must say, there is a lot to be gained and at least thought about now that these charges have been brought to light, for being unbiased when it comes to Astrology delineations and the charts of all parties who had access to Cayley (the victim) as you all know.
Here is a little I've found about Nessus today online:
Asteroids: Nessus, (sex abuse)
From: http://www.astroknowlogy.com/questions/what-is-the-influence-of-the-asteroid-nessus
As for the natal chart (and I wish we had times of birth ) of all being accused,(i.e. State blames CA and Defense blames G.A. ) but we do not as of today, have the times of birth yet.
Composite Chart of C.A. and her father, G.A. reveals:
Venus square Pluto, Sun/Nessus - midpoint conjunct to Venus
Moon/Saturn Midpoint is also square to Nessus
My own personal experience with sex abuse and molestation tells me that if GA had ever violated ICA she would have never left Caylee alone with him. She would have been going out of her to protect her daughter from him. She would have really worked to try to gain funds to remove her daughter from that situation not had a make believe job. She wouldn't have used GA as a babysitter for Caylee because she wouldn't have wanted to leave her daughter open to that abuse.
I do not for one moment believe that ICA is a victim of sex abuse or molestation. And if I turn out to be wrong, that is still not an excuse to murder her daughter or cover up her daughter's accidental death.
Leomoon80
06-01-2011, 10:57 PM
From my own personal opinion, and being both a Survivor myself, and having been in therapy groups with others,
I believe a person can be so damaged, as to indeed, leave their child as vulnerable as they themselves are/were.
As I am on record stating this young woman is quite mentally ill to do what she did and I stand by this belief till today and indeed, she may have been the one to place that ducttape on her daughter's mouth just as the majority of folks believe it to be.
I do agree about the Trial itself, which is a Death Penalty Murder Case and not a Sexual Abuse case.
However, since the Defense of Casey is that her father is the one responsible for the cover up., (whether true or not), does not excuse her from doing the right thing for everyone involved or in the case of her father, doing the right thing, which is call 911.
Personally speaking, I cannot get beyond a person seeing a child drown and then not calling 911, whether it be the father or Casey A. There is no logical explanation I can come up with that should prevent a person from doing that, for there are many drownings in Florida as there are in Arizona of children, and it's a common enough accident unfortunately in both states.
Logic tells me that this did not occur, yet I'm still open to the evidence as it is presented which then may force me to accept a change of logic once I hear it.
Thus far however, we know the child is dead and someone is responsible for her death.
and not
until the Defense started laying out a case for the father or grandfather being the culprit, we didn't even consider this (at least I did not), but now since Nessus and Orcus was introduced to look at online and in astrological circles, I will look at least Astrologically, at the potential of abuse here, in all ways open to us (astrologically speaking) to either confirm or deny or at least say, it's possible or not.
I found NESSUS (sexual abuse) online and thought it was very interesting having never considered this asteroid before.
There is another they are using onlline for this case called "ORCUS" which has to do with murders and cover ups.
CASEY’S NATAL INCLUDES: (FOR THOSE WHO STUDY MIDPOINTS)
Saturn (male/older or father) opposed to Chiron (exact orb conjunct Antares a violent star)
Midpoint of Pluto/Orcus squares her Uranus/ Mars conjunction
Moon/Saturn Midpoint conjuncts the Orcus/Pluto midpoint –
Orcus is said to mete out retribution over broken oaths.
http://www.astrologycom.com/fullmoonvirgo1.html
Pluto is closer to the Sun than Neptune when he is at the top of his oval-shaped orbit as is Orcus when he is at the top of his. Pluto has a large moon called Charon and their two faces are locked towards each other as if they have an invisible shaft between them. So does Orcus and his moon, Vanth.
This so intrigued the imagination of the survey leader, Mike Brown; he dubbed Orcus(2) the “anti-Pluto”. He said of the Orcus myth that he read:
“Orcus was, essentially, the early Etruscan grim reaper, collecting the dead and bringing them to the Underworld where Pluto ruled……
For the Composite energies between natal of Casey and G.A.:
Venus is square to Pluto. With the Sun/Nessus midpoint conjunct Venus
note: Traditionally we see the Sun as father and the Moon as mother in astrology charts.
often Saturn is also inserted for father or grandfather sometimes Jupiter is seen as grandfather.
VidaRose
06-01-2011, 11:24 PM
CASEY’S NATAL INCLUDES: (FOR THOSE WHO STUDY MIDPOINTS)
Saturn (male/older or father) opposed to Chiron (exact orb conjunct Antares a violent star)
Midpoint of Pluto/Orcus squares her Uranus/ Mars conjunction
Moon/Saturn Midpoint conjuncts the Orcus/Pluto midpoint –
Dear Leomoon,
Could this be the clash we are seeing now between ICA and GA due to the allegations made by the defense against GA on ICA’s behalf? I just don’t see GA involved in truly abusing any woman in any interpretation I can come up with. I am inexperienced with charts though..
Zoe Bogart
06-02-2011, 12:10 AM
However, since the Defense of Casey is that her father is the one responsible for the cover up., (whether true or not), does not excuse her from doing the right thing for everyone involved or in the case of her father, doing the right thing, which is call 911.
Personally speaking, I cannot get beyond a person seeing a child drown and then not calling 911, whether it be the father or Casey A. There is no logical explanation I can come up with that should prevent a person from doing that, for there are many drownings in Florida as there are in Arizona of children, and it's a common enough accident unfortunately in both states.
Logic tells me that this did not occur, yet I'm still open to the evidence as it is presented which then may force me to accept a change of logic once I hear it.
Thus far however, we know the child is dead and someone is responsible for her death.
and not until the Defense started laying out a case for the father or grandfather being the culprit, we didn't even consider this (at least I did not), but now since Nessus and Orcus was introduced to look at online and in astrological circles, I will look at least Astrologically, at the potential of abuse here, in all ways open to us (astrologically speaking) to either confirm or deny or at least say, it's possible or not.
snipped to save space only
Re: BBM and underlined
Actually, Leomoon, very early in the case it was considered by some, both sexual abuse by father and/or brother, and if anyone in the family helped cover up the death when it happened. We even looked at drowning as a possibility. Our astrologers were emphatic, no sexual abuse by brother or father, Caylee wasn't the daughter of GA or LA, and Caylee died at the hands of her mother, not accidentally. The alleged coverup was assumed to have come in after the fact, all fingers pointing Cindy, to Lee, and lastly, to George. Cindy was much higher on the list than her husband.
After our astrologers told us the above "no, no, no", we let the subject drop and looked for the truth, justice, and who could have been assisting later.
That being said, we'll probably never know the truth. Let's just pray the planets line up correctly and justice is finally served.
Leomoon80
06-02-2011, 12:24 AM
Dear Leomoon,
Could this be the clash we are seeing now between ICA and GA due to the allegations made by the defense against GA on ICA’s behalf? I just don’t see GA involved in truly abusing any woman in any interpretation I can come up with. I am inexperienced with charts though..
There are many astrologers convinced that the Midpoints here, point to serious sexual abuse by the father. Personally, I haven't had enough experience with the midpoints (although I will start to crack open my Ebertin Stellar Infleunces on the Midpoints) this week after seeing all of this and redo charts myself including Ceres and see what I can see.
There are definately i.e. Plutocontrol issues in the family that's certain. She did not come out of a vacuum by herself. Neptune isn't operating alone here either. (Deception and undermining everyone's charts)
No, it's not the transits being mentioned (to answer your question) that is worrisome here, it's actual Natal positions.
I know how hard it is to open up to the possibility as it gets more comforting as the years go by to see only one villain, namely C.A. especially after years and years of media influence too.
But, there may be far more to the family's dynamics then previously thought to be.
Zoe: Not having the times of birth doesn't help either you know......We are doing the best we can with what we have all of us, but the times of birth has vital "other" info (such as perhaps asteroids and midpoints) that can possibly confirm all of this, as angles should show us more. We need more study and more info I think.....to be conclusive about anything more.
We can now only imagine what info the angles may hold. It would be great to know and not guess.
Frigga
06-02-2011, 12:38 AM
Thank you Leomoon, I think we all want the truth... whatever that looks like. I have wondered about this more than anything in this case. I sure wish we could get the Anthony's birth times?
Housemouse knows a lot about midpoints, unfortunately she has taken leave to care for her husband. When Soulscape and Tuba return they can give their perspective as well.
Paulette
06-02-2011, 01:47 AM
My only interaction with the courts & the law was serving as a juror on a home invasion case with 5 counts & 2 special circumstances. The state presented the facts - the defense refuted the facts and insinuated that someone else planted all the evidence (a co-worker at an apt. complex). We saw through this foil & found him guilty. My point is the defense in any case will bring in stuff that may not be true.
The myth of Nessus is he attempted to rape Heracles wife - Heracles killed him. As a final act of malice, Nessus told Deianira, as he lay dying, that his blood would ensure that Heracles would be true to her forever. The wife believed him & spread some of Nessus blood on a shirt which Heracles wore to a party. She spilled a bit of blood on the floor & "To her horror, it began to fume by the light of the rising sun." Heracles died.
Nessus seems to represent poison - poisoned lies. The rape was thwarted.
KC has "Lie" 21:51 Rx SAG conjunct "Nessus" 22:48 Rx SAG.
Does this mean something that happened to her or something she does? What does the evidence say in the persons' life? Does this person spread poison lies?
Caylee has Pluto 21:58 Rx SAG. Poor little child.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nessus_(mythology)
Zoe Bogart
06-02-2011, 02:19 AM
:seeya: I took a look at a few astrology forums and was surprised to see how much their opinions differ from that of our astrologers'. In fact, I'm stunned, since our astrologers have been "right on" in the overwhelming majority of cases we've studied. There's also the fact that Casey has been content to sit in jail for three years for an accident! Boggles the mind. One well-known astrology site has an entire thread dedicated to Casey's innocence begun during jury selection. I visit the site occasionally but never saw anything related to the Anthonys there before now, I guess I wasn't looking for it. :waitasec: They're not totally relying on astrology though and believe GA is Caylee's father, not taking into account that if Lee can't be her father, neither can GA, since Caylee has alleles which neither LA nor GA carry.
Anyway, it's still an interesting read. Don't know if I'm allowed to link it. Reading those other boards gives a different perspective though. A fine example how two people can look at the same thing and see something completely different. At least one person points them to us and sings our praises. :fireworks:
On Noel Tyl's site, someone says Casey was born at 3:10 PM in Warren, but doesn't say where that information was found. :waitasec: It would give her a Leo Ascendant (sign of royalty!, arrogance), plus her vertical axis would be leaning toward the 3rd/9th houses, not something I'd expect of someone in a high-profile murder case.
katydid23
06-02-2011, 02:39 AM
Dear Leomoon,
Could this be the clash we are seeing now between ICA and GA due to the allegations made by the defense against GA on ICA’s behalf? I just don’t see GA involved in truly abusing any woman in any interpretation I can come up with. I am inexperienced with charts though..
That is an excellent point. It is hard to tell the difference, imo.
From my experience, I do not think it is possible to accurately differentiate between various outcomes in chart connections. In other words, we ALL have free will. Nobody can look at a child and fathers chart and predict from their inter-aspects that the father will absolutely rape that child. Those aspects, like Venus square Pluto, and Saturn opposed Chiron can play out in a myriad of ways.
Imo, the Venus square Pluto is a basic control issue. George hated the way Casey behaved. He was old school, she was a lazy, free spirit.
And I think the midpoints which some astrologers say indicate child abuse could just as easily indicate the FALSE accusations of child abuse. As a matter of fact I do not think there is a way to differentiate between the two by just comparing natal charts. The aspects mimic each other. And as I already stated, WE HAVE FREE WILL. A natal chart comparison cannot say anything like a child was raped by her father with certainty because that would take away all sense of free will, which is not the purpose of astrological studies, imo.
In other words, no one would be able to look at Casey's chart when she was born and compare it to her fathers and say with certainty that those squares between Venus/pluto etc. will mean that he will rape that child. Doing so would mean that life is pre-determined. All one can say is that there would be intensity in sexual issues and it will remain to be seen. And it could just as easily be that those aspects describe his anger towards her wild behavior and her false rape accusations.
[ okay, rant over--sorry]:rant:
p.s.
My husband has Pluto square our daughters Venus. He has never abused her and NEVER would.
They do butt heads sometimes and are both passionate stubborn souls, imo.
Paulette
06-02-2011, 03:57 AM
Thank you katydid - finally a voice of reason on this subject.
That is an excellent point. It is hard to tell the difference, imo.
From my experience, I do not think it is possible to accurately differentiate between various outcomes in chart connections. In other words, we ALL have free will. Nobody can look at a child and fathers chart and predict from their inter-aspects that the father will absolutely rape that child. Those aspects, like Venus square Pluto, and Saturn opposed Chiron can play out in a myriad of ways.
Imo, the Venus square Pluto is a basic control issue. George hated the way Casey behaved. He was old school, she was a lazy, free spirit.
And I think the midpoints which some astrologers say indicate child abuse could just as easily indicate the FALSE accusations of child abuse. As a matter of fact I do not think there is a way to differentiate between the two by just comparing natal charts. The aspects mimic each other. And as I already stated, WE HAVE FREE WILL. A natal chart comparison cannot say anything like a child was raped by her father with certainty because that would take away all sense of free will, which is not the purpose of astrological studies, imo.
In other words, no one would be able to look at Casey's chart when she was born and compare it to her fathers and say with certainty that those squares between Venus/pluto etc. will mean that he will rape that child. Doing so would mean that life is pre-determined. All one can say is that there would be intensity in sexual issues and it will remain to be seen. And it could just as easily be that those aspects describe his anger towards her wild behavior and her false rape accusations.
[ okay, rant over--sorry]:rant:
p.s.
My husband has Pluto square our daughters Venus. He has never abused her and NEVER would.
They do butt heads sometimes and are both passionate stubborn souls, imo.
momshrink
06-02-2011, 07:49 AM
People in the astro communities are discussing G.A. Nessus in his natal chart as well as the Midpoints between his Synastry with C.A. as for mitigation of the defense and it's charges against him., as well as the defense's contention that GA helped hide the death of Cayley Anthony.
I've not used NESSUS myself in the charts although it's easily added on as an important asteroid at astro.com along with the Black Moon, Lilith and other options one might add. , but I must say, there is a lot to be gained and at least thought about now that these charges have been brought to light, for being unbiased when it comes to Astrology delineations and the charts of all parties who had access to Cayley (the victim) as you all know.
Here is a little I've found about Nessus today online:
Asteroids: Nessus, (sex abuse)
From: http://www.astroknowlogy.com/questions/what-is-the-influence-of-the-asteroid-nessus
As for the natal chart (and I wish we had times of birth ) of all being accused,(i.e. State blames CA and Defense blames G.A. ) but we do not as of today, have the times of birth yet.
Composite Chart of C.A. and her father, G.A. reveals:
Venus square Pluto, Sun/Nessus - midpoint conjunct to Venus
Moon/Saturn Midpoint is also square to Nessus
Thanks, Leomoon. I read this last night and wanted to think about it a little. I am not an astrologer and need kindergarten interpretation, as you all know, but I also know that the stars do not lie. However, our interpretations can be different. I am having a hard time because I don't want to believe GA abused ICA just because of my feeling toward ICA and because I now see him as a broken man. However, I have treated many survivors of childhood sexual abuse and my tendancy is to be for them and believe them. Not all who accuse are sexually abused, but many who accuse are not believed.
Taking a deep breath here --- I think we all may be a little biased and - if I may say it - are we seeking an interpretation we want to believe and discarding the one we do not like???? :fence:
Frigga
06-02-2011, 09:02 AM
Wow! Everyone here has completely valid, yet differing, points.
If I were George (being ex law enforcement) the first thing I would say would be "hook me up for a polygraph test". Just sayin'.
Leomoon80
06-02-2011, 11:47 AM
Wow! Everyone here has completely valid, yet differing, points.
If I were George (being ex law enforcement) the first thing I would say would be "hook me up for a polygraph test". Just sayin'.
I agree Frigga, it's very hard not to become biased with one's own emotions invested into the case as well as astrologically, as suggested, it's a subjective interpretation upon an objective natal position. Can go two ways depending upon many factors, and that is why it takes setting aside the emotions to approach a case from the most objective vantage point possible.
Quite honestly, and all of us can see this, just by a "thanks" we can see subjective rendering, on what meets our subjective approval and what theories we discard, and we see this all the time on the forum. Those for instance who do not believe for one second that CA is mentally ill, or discard this theory will not "thank" me, lol. That is very easy to see here.
I've said over and over, imo, Casey A. is mentally ill. I'm sure I can find something in her natal to verify my opinion in this regard.
Not having the times of birth is a real drawback for any Astrologer too, as the Angles are "super" important.
Midpoints as well may be read from varying perspectives, again, Astrology is an Art using as it's foundation and basis, astronomical points which then convert to symbology for the Astrologer and not everyone agrees with the symbols per se, most of course do, but not everyone in the same way.
As for GA and his daughter's accusations?
Well my father was seen by everyone as a "swell guy" both at his work and publically in the neighborhood and elsewhere....and I can't tell you how many times I was told this, even when my first daughter was born and he and my mom came to see me in the hospital, the girl in the next bed was very impressed with his personnae. He'd joke with my friends as a teenager, and that too would endear him to them. :(
Who would have believed back then?
I'd say without the anger, more a joking person, he came across as a G.A. would.
Very caring, very nice very personable, (not an angry person) by any means publically anyway.
It takes all kinds, they say; to make up a universe or a world.
As for "Free Will", I agree, we all have free will as a soul, but we also are born into vibrations that carry over, imo.
The Astrological saying is "The Stars impel they do not COMPEL", but try to give up cigarettes or chocolate when one is "impelled" to carry on with them, and you can see how difficult it is to overcome a vibration (by analogy) too. :)
momshrink
06-02-2011, 01:37 PM
Leomoon, I really appreciate all that you post - you, too, Frigga! I think ICA is mentally ill, but that does not excuse what I believe she has done. I go back and forth on the sexual abuse - but if it happened, it does not excuse what she did. If it did not happen, her accusations are not excusable, either. As I said, I am inclined to believe those who say it happened to them, although I have worked with false accusations, too, but those are rare. I am interested in hearing more from our astrologers. I really appreciate their interpretations.
katydid23
06-02-2011, 01:45 PM
One of the reasons I reject the theory that SA caused Casey to lie is found in her natal chart. She has Mercury retrograde in Pisces in a very tight square to Mars/Uranus in Sag. That is a textbook trait of an impulsive pathological liar. Add to that the Sun / Neptune square which is layered on top of that, and there is even more evidence of an inability to tell the truth to others.
Given that, I do not believe that SA 'caused' her lying behavior. Also, she has a very strong trine between her Venus and her Saturn. I have never seen particular beneficial aspect in the chart of a girl abused by her father. So I have to go with my gut reaction which is that Casey made it all up to cover her own self. imoo
eta:Mercury=Mars/Uranus:
A test of power carried through CALCULATINGLY.
Leomoon80
06-02-2011, 02:23 PM
Leomoon, I really appreciate all that you post - you, too, Frigga! I think ICA is mentally ill, but that does not excuse what I believe she has done. I go back and forth on the sexual abuse - but if it happened, it does not excuse what she did. If it did not happen, her accusations are not excusable, either. As I said, I am inclined to believe those who say it happened to them, although I have worked with false accusations, too, but those are rare. I am interested in hearing more from our astrologers. I really appreciate their interpretations.
My mind is wide open to either/or at this point. I can't go much farther towards absolutes without the times of birth being given as evidence for the natal charts. However, I have found some interesting observations such as the following to add here:
CA & GA composite DYNAMICS:
the composite of Casey & GA NATALS more clearly:
Venus is square to Pluto. With the Sun/Nessus midpoint see below conjunct to Venus . abuse is “possible” as shown by Jupiter square to Venus/Sun and opposed to Pluto in a traditional or objective look of the combined energies.
Casey’s natal Moon (instincts or emotions) is Quincunx (harmed) by it’s harsh aspect to Saturn
(emotions harmed in her natal chart). Similar to a square or harsh aspect , it’s indicative of one’s own childhood and inability to express emotions properly leading one to think of a person as having a “cold heart” (Alan Oken, Complete Astrology)
From what I’d surmise…..probably adding to mental and emotional illness as the Quincunx more often then not, points to medical issues.
Composite : GA & CMA i.e. Casey :
Sun/Nessus Midpoint = is 27°24’ Gem/Sag - or conj. Venus in composite chart @ 26°5’Gemini which is also Quincunx to Neptune at 26°49Scorpio!
Midpoint of Composite Venus and Mars = 22°AQ21’ /Leo
Which is a degree of self-undoing and Opposes Casey’s (natal) NESSUS 22°47’Leo ( supportive of a sexual abuse indictment) of some kind or at least supportive of her “belief” it occurred.
Enjoy your posts, as they seem well informed as to the dilemma of a sexual abuse victim and how they may function in the outer world as you apparently have been around quite a few of them.
katydid23
06-02-2011, 02:42 PM
My mind is wide open to either/or at this point. I can't go much farther towards absolutes without the times of birth being given as evidence for the natal charts. However, I have found some interesting observations such as the following to add here:
CA & GA composite DYNAMICS:
the composite of Casey & GA NATALS more clearly:
Venus is square to Pluto. With the Sun/Nessus midpoint see below conjunct to Venus . abuse is “possible” as shown by Jupiter square to Venus/Sun and opposed to Pluto in a traditional or objective look of the combined energies.
Casey’s natal Moon (instincts or emotions) is Quincunx (harmed) by it’s harsh aspect to Saturn
(emotions harmed in her natal chart). Similar to a square or harsh aspect , it’s indicative of one’s own childhood and inability to express emotions properly leading one to think of a person as having a “cold heart” (Alan Oken, Complete Astrology)
From what I’d surmise…..probably adding to mental and emotional illness as the Quincunx more often then not, points to medical issues.
Composite : GA & CMA i.e. Casey :
Sun/Nessus Midpoint = is 27°24’ Gem/Sag - or conj. Venus in composite chart @ 26°5’Gemini which is also Quincunx to Neptune at 26°49Scorpio!
Midpoint of Composite Venus and Mars = 22°AQ21’ /Leo
Which is a degree of self-undoing and Opposes Casey’s (natal) NESSUS 22°47’Leo ( supportive of a sexual abuse indictment) of some kind or at least supportive of her “belief” it occurred.
Enjoy your posts, as they seem well informed as to the dilemma of a sexual abuse victim and how they may function in the outer world as you apparently have been around quite a few of them.
As you have already said, we can not see too much more without accurate birth times. The Venus/Pluto Square is in effect for every child born that day whose father is the same age as George. I don't think they were all abused. We need more accurate times to make that assumption, imoo.
And the Moon / Saturn inconjunct is not certain because we have no birth time. But even if it were it is not usually indicative of physical or sexual abuse, more like emotional disconnect or feelings of distance between father and mother or child. imoo
Composites are based upon the midpoint of two events, the birthcharts of two individuals. Without birthtimes the composite is useless imo. I would not want to accuse a man of being a pedophile based upon composite chart with no accurate birthtimes.
I am a SA survivor and I do like to give benefit of the doubt to SA victims. But I also see how horrible it is to assume someone is guilty of abuse on flimsy evidence. And I think the evidence of Casey being a born liar is more substantial than the evidence of her being a victim of abuse by her father. imoo
VidaRose
06-02-2011, 03:08 PM
Did anyone else notice that ICA is trying to seduce at least one guy on that jury if not all? Can someone please tell me if they see any of the men on the jury buying into her damsel in distress defense, or becoming infatuated with her based on the jury charts?
Leomoon80
06-02-2011, 03:20 PM
CA Natal: (checking various random times for the Moon in Cancer on her birthday)
Moon in Cancer at Noon on her birthday CST = 10°38'
Moon in Cancer at 1AM that same day = 05°
Moon in Cancer at 8PM that same day =14°
Moon more then likely (probability quotient) within orb of a Quincunx to Saturn
Note:
(keeping my personal feelings out of it, just giving the Astrology here of the Moon's position this day)
Leomoon80
06-02-2011, 06:44 PM
AFAIK inconjuncts are given very small orbs. Usually from 0 to 3 degrees, otherwise they are actually another minor aspect. So if she was born at mid day it would be an inconjunct. But even then, Moon inconjunct Saturn is not usually an indicator of physical sexual abuse AFAIK.
Do you see the Inconjunct or Quincunx aspect, as usually a medical ailment in the natal charts or pointing to same?
I'd be interested in knowing whether or not others see the same as I do, when it comes to the Quincunx often pointing to medical themes .
katydid23
06-02-2011, 06:56 PM
I do see the inconjunct as quite often being a medical theme. I do not see it as usually being a physical assault. It may be, but I am not judging the relationship between casey and her dad on only that aspect. To me, the main reason people say that they believe Casey was abused is because of her behavior. [ lying and stealing and ignoring childs death]
I see those things, that type of behavior, in Casey's natal chart. So it does not seem to be caused by the relationship between father and daughter, imoo.
Also she has a very nice trine from her Venus to her saturn, and no difficult aspects from her Pluto to any of her personal planets. In fact she has Pluto trine Moon [potentially.] And that Moon opposed Neptune tells a story of her being deceitful much more than her being physically assaulted. Again, imoo. Because both her Saturn and her pluto make nice strong beneficial aspects to Venus and the Moon, the feminine duo, I do not believe she was raped throughout her childhood. In my experience there are much more difficult aspects seen in charts of lifelong SA victims.
[ I have a fixed Grand Square involving Pluto and personal planets for example.] Her squares to Venus are from the Moon and Neptune, which to me, tells a story of her own deceitfulness. IMOO.
ETA: my posts were in response to the statements that astrologers on other boards were saying that there is reason to believe she was being abused by her father. THAT is what I am disputing, using my own opinion on the charts only.
Leomoon80
06-02-2011, 07:39 PM
Casey has a Trine of Venus to Saturn.
I just noticed that I too, have a Trine aspect between Saturn and Venus.
My Saturn is located 6°Leo and my Venus is located 3°Sag.
within 3 degrees of an exact trine.
My Venus however, is semi-square to Mars
He pretty much abused my younger sister and I all of our childhood, but she had more vivid memories then I from the much younger years.
Of course I came to terms with my abuser, (my father) and forgave him before he even asked.
Actually, he never asked forgiveness :( , but I dreamt he did after he died. I saw him with his stove on fire in a small apartment and said, "You almost burned the house down" (consciousness i see as houses)
He was telling me, he tried to call me over and over I suppose for forgiveness.
I forgave him......but also told him off, in the dream state. :crazy:
It's a shame we do not yet have Casey's time of birth, for the 2nd/8th house I learned from Magi-Astrologers is called the Axis of Desire.
My Pluto and the Moon are both in the 2nd house.
katydid23
06-02-2011, 08:02 PM
I wish we had the birth times as well. They would be fascinating charts to interpret and to compare. I am hoping some one close to the family eventually discovers the times.
Interesting, you have a trine from Venus and Saturn and were abused by father, and I have a semi-square between the two, and had a very supportive father. Hmmmmm. I guess that goes to show us that it takes a lot of aspects, the entire big picture, to determine the outcomes.
I love the Magi-Astrologers. I work a lot with the houses because that is what makes a chart personal, as opposed to the same chart everyone else born that day has. So not having the birth times is very frustrating, imo.
momshrink
06-02-2011, 08:27 PM
My question is: if the DT had not brought these allegations against GA and LA, would anyone see the indicators of of possible sexual abuse in the charts? Was there anything seen before the allegations were brought?
As you can tell, I am so undecided on this. I want so much to say that everything that comes out of ICA's mouth is a lie, but I also want to believe or at least be open to believing anyone who reports that they were are victim of sexual abuse.
I am also not sure this has any bearing on this trial. While sexual abuse may explain her behavior, it does not excuse her behavior.
katydid23
06-02-2011, 08:57 PM
I looked for child abuse and or incest a couple of years ago because of the name Cay-Lee. I thought it was kind of creepy that the child's name was a combo of the brother and sisters name. If my 19 yr old was going to have a baby [ please, hypothetical ONLY] the last thing she would do is combine her name with her older brothers. So I thought it was very odd, especially given the ' birthfather is dead' explanation.
However, imo and imo only, I did not see abuse from the father in the chart, which is usually indicated by Saturn, Jupiter or Pluto. But there is a Mercury/Mars tight square with no harmonious outlets. So, imo, she may have had some kind of sexual interactions with her brother, but I do not know if it was forced or consensual. Again, imoo.
If I had the birth times, and the 10th/4th axis were afflicted, then I would give more credence to the father being involved.
I may be entirely wrong.
momshrink
06-02-2011, 09:03 PM
Thanks, Katy - this is what I have thought, that there may have been some sexual interaction with LA, but nothing involving penetration - can I say that here????
Soulscape
06-02-2011, 09:24 PM
I looked for child abuse and or incest a couple of years ago because of the name Cay-Lee. I thought it was kind of creepy that the child's name was a combo of the brother and sisters name. If my 19 yr old was going to have a baby [ please, hypothetical ONLY] the last thing she would do is combine her name with her older brothers. So I thought it was very odd, especially given the ' birthfather is dead' explanation.
However, imo and imo only, I did not see abuse from the father in the chart, which is usually indicated by Saturn, Jupiter or Pluto. But there is a Mercury/Mars tight square with no harmonious outlets. So, imo, she may have had some kind of sexual interactions with her brother, but I do not know if it was forced or consensual. Again, imoo.
If I had the birth times, and the 10th/4th axis were afflicted, then I would give more credence to the father being involved.
I may be entirely wrong.
Katydid,
If you are "entirely wrong," so are Tuba, Neptunian, Housemouse, Kaitland and myself. As most of our readers know, we have been involved in the astrological analysis of this case since the beginning. None of us saw credible evidence of natal promise of sexual abuse in Casey Anthony's (untimed) birth chart, nor did we see the tell-tale markers in GA's (untimed) birth chart that typically suggest sexual obsession/ perversion.
What we did see in Casey Anthony's chart was testimony after testimony associated with manipulation, deceit and pathological lying.
Thanks,
Soulscape
momshrink
06-02-2011, 09:51 PM
Katydid,
If you are "entirely wrong," so are Tuba, Neptunian, Housemouse, Kaitland and myself. As most of our readers know, we have been involved in the astrological analysis of this case since the beginning. None of us saw credible evidence of natal promise of sexual abuse in Casey Anthony's (untimed) birth chart, nor did we see the tell-tale markers in GA's (untimed) birth chart that typically suggest sexual obsession/ perversion.
What we did see in Casey Anthony's chart was testimony after testimony associated with manipulation, deceit and pathological lying.
Thanks,
Soulscape
Thank you, Soulscape. You and Katydid have confirmed what I have felt all along, that GA was falsely accused.
Leomoon80
06-02-2011, 10:24 PM
Thank you, Soulscape. You and Katydid have confirmed what I have felt all along, that GA was falsely accused.
I love your "off to bed" emoticon! Puts a chuckle in an otherwise, hard subject to write about.
I've been back to the charts, looking again as in the very beginning of this case, at CERES, which I find fasincating, in this family arena of charts, not only because of it's location in Cayley's natal chart, but also the interplay of the family charts and of course, the mythology behind the nurture of Ceres:
Ceres description at this link: astrologycom.com
http://www.cafeastrology.com/articles/aspectpatterns.html
Re:Casey's KITE formation with Neptune at the Apex of the kite.
quote:
M.March and J.McEvers reckon that the biggest problem of the Kite is that the configuration comprises three different aspects, and can lead to excessive concentration on part of a horoscope and, correspondingly, to adverse utilization of other opportunities which are contained within the horoscope.
I'm not here to try to convince anyone of anything, especially when minds are made up but I do think Ceres is one part of everyone's chart which should be seriously considered, especially in regards to this case in particular.
Everyone who is human needs nurturing and needs to learn to nurture in return. Not everyone learns apparently one or the other.
There happens to be a “running theme” I noticed and am willing to share here, from the very beginning, of checking the natal charts d for CA, her child Cayley (timed birth helped a great deal here, for we easily find her Ceres at the I/C in Scorpio)….Ceres for the grandmother, GA and LA.
Here are the locations in case anyone is interested in studying Ceres in the natal charts:
LA (uncle) Ceres at 22nd degree of SAG conj. Neptune at 25deg.Sag.
Venus 2Sag conj. Uranus 4Sag.
CA (grandmother of child) 9Leo conj. Uranus 8Leo (obvious as loss of the child to nurture and be nurtured by in such a “quick” (Uranus) fashion, overnight.
On December 11, 2008 when the bones were discovered , the grandmother’s natal chart has TR Ceres conj. TR Mercury stationed over her natal PLUTO (DEATH) (both conj. Regulus)
TR Mars stationed over her natal Venus and formed a square to her Ceres & Uranus.
G.A. - (grandfather of Caylee , dad of Casey):
His Ceres is 9PISCES (fatal and a degree of suffering) and of course, ruled by Neptune(theme)
When Caylee’s body was found, his PROG Ceres was conj. “Fomalhaut” at 3PIS.
(in the news, and as the ancients suggested, an immortal name)
His Natal North Node is conj. Ceres at 9PIS within one hour
and Sun is conj. the South Node and at 9Virgo – is considered, “body in the ditch” at this degree.
CA (Caylee) is the only timed chart, so we know the angles involved. In this case, even more poignant of course because the I/C where her Ceres is located, is in the 3rd (using Placidius an uneven houses chart) and located conjunct the cusp of the 4th which is the home life.
Caylee’s I/C was 17.36 degrees Scorpio and her Ceres was 16.51 degrees Scorpio so we can see how remarkably close in orb they were. The Angle to Ceres.
As well, Caylee’s Ceres is square to the Sun (the light or ego expression) which was 16Leo57minutes Leo , (see how close to Ceres, this square was)
And square to her natal Neptune which was 16degrees 11minutes Aquarius
Remarkable, and certainly shows us how Astrology can reflect in the natal chart the probability to come.
CMA (Casey A.) : Has her natal Ceres at 4degrees34min. (rx) Virgo which puts it opposed to natal Jupiter at 6°Pisces.
Her natal Ceres makes one other major aspect (caveat being the time of birth), which is a Trine to Neptune, the Apex of a Kite in her natal chart linking the Moon (emotions) with Pluto and Jupiter (both at the 6th degree) and Neptune (illusions, and fantasies) at almost the same 5 degrees 43minutes in Capricorn, and of course the Apex of the Kite, the expiation point i.e. “fantasy world woven by the other planets” control is often a hallmark of Pluto when unbridled and unleashed, Jupiter (can be overwhelming and overdone) Neptune, is usually undermining and in this case we know now it is to her (the made up life and people in the life) a life of fantasy weaving.
To my belief however, the fantasies are a creation (purposeful perhaps) in order to cope with the life she was leading and had led as a child.
Anyone see the classic movie, "12 Angry Men?"......one of my husband's favorites, he probably knows every line.
CA only needs one holdout to escape the DP. who MAY wonder if it's possible this is the only time she didn't lie after all.
But like the old Aesop Fable? "The little boy who cried wolf" ?
Who will believe now......when so many lies were told just like that fable teaches.
Hunnie
06-02-2011, 11:24 PM
I wonder if casey herself, is a sexual abuser....something just haunts me about that video of baby Caylee in her highchair, and casey is so weird filming her aiming the camera at her crotch and saying kill....and then the baby starts repeating it, I Kill You
Could the charts be picking up that casey is the sexual abuser?
YouTube - ‪Who is Momtective? Breakfast with Caylee‬‏
katydid23
06-02-2011, 11:36 PM
In my experience, Ceres in a natal chart is said to represent one's sense of 'mother' and one's own mothering skills and ability to nurture. Having an afflicted Ceres would be indicative of being 'abused' or neglected or overpowered by one's mother figures before it would indicate being molested by the father. imoo
Casey has Ceres retro in Virgo, opposed by Jupiter in Pisces. I would [imo] interpret that as Casey having a critical mother figure who was passive aggressive in nature, and who was in opposition to an expansive and nurturing male figure, who was too forgiving and too generous to a fault. But I see nothing in that aspect which denotes sexual assault. imoo
That Ceres also describes HER as a mother. She would feel that inner critical passive/aggressive
tension herself when it comes to being in the role of the nurturer. Being at the midpoint of Saturn/Chiron in Gemini/ Sag may bring about the urge to break free from the bonds of daily routine activities. Those things make her feel deeply insecure and unprepared. Her own mother probably added to that feeling of inferiority because Cindy was a super MOM. everything was just so and just
perfect. How could Casey ever live up to that expectation with such an afflicted sense of Ceres.
Her Ceres is the midpoint of Saturn/Chiron, and the apex of a t-square. I see that as mental stress, nervous exhaustion, perhaps double messages in the home life about honesty/dishonesty. But the mutable mode and the Saturn /Jupiter do not imply sexual
abuse in my opinion. I see it more as a battle between the sexes in the home, as the women emasculating the men, by witholding respect or love, and by being hypercritical.
The Kite is a difficult planetary formation, I agree. An under estimated formation imo.
However, imo, and imo only, it represents' leaving' the body, soaring above reality, escapism, the urge to disconnect from the physical senses. I have not seen it being a representation of physical abuse.
Casey's lies--that she has a good steady job, is in college, has a wealthy boyfriend who gave her a tiffany ring, has lots of successful friends---are the only way she can live up to her family's expectations. The kite is like something that gets out of control, goes airborne, and there is no turning back, onward and upward.
The major planetary formations in Casey's chart seems to be connected to her inability to realistically assess physical reality. I think she may be delusional at times and be at risk of losing touch with reality. But that does not seem to be tied to a father /sexuality issue imo. It seems to be her own personal demons, and inner rage. Sure, she grew up in a dysfunctional family. But I do not see it as the way she is describing it at all. imo
ETA: I can agree that she wanted to rise above her difficult home life. But I do not agree that it was because of sexual abuse by the father. I think it was more likely to do with issues surrounding the tension between the mother and father, their own lack of connection, love and respect for each other. I think she felt a real burden to be a 'perfect' child and felt wholly incapable of doing so. [ Sun in critical degree of Pisces with major afflictions from Moon and from Mars, Uranus and Neptune. I think she felt insecure and inferior in many ways and could not focus well enough to follow through on basic ordinary tasks. [ Sun = Moon/Mars, Uranus in Mutable signs.]
VidaRose
06-03-2011, 12:23 AM
Dear wonderful members,
This may be a primitive attempt at astrological, and forensic websluething however I have compared ICA’s chart with my own because I know for a fact that I had a childhood of abuse. I am convinced that ICA was a child who was doted over by a well meaning, loving, but imperfect family. \
Rather, I see a power base in her chart that makes her energy like a bull dozer. People are hit and run by her before they realize it. They do not expect the actions they eventually get from her based on what they initially believe about her. She is also somewhat intelligent which makes her a skilled manipulator.
Not to say she has the same influential power of great world leaders who also have the “free will” to use their influence for good or bad; but it is similar. ICA is not sophisticated enough. Instead she will steam roll someone and leave them in the dust wondering why the heck they didn’t see it coming. ICA is blusterous right out of the gate of her creation, and wanting right away to do her own bidding. She lives for ICA ( herself) and no one else. Some are too bad, too soon to be stealthy. Her GREAT Midpoint conflicts with GA or anyone else are of her own doing……or un- doing. IMO
Jenny60123
06-03-2011, 07:21 AM
Leomoon, I really appreciate all that you post - you, too, Frigga! I think ICA is mentally ill, but that does not excuse what I believe she has done. I go back and forth on the sexual abuse - but if it happened, it does not excuse what she did. If it did not happen, her accusations are not excusable, either. As I said, I am inclined to believe those who say it happened to them, although I have worked with false accusations, too, but those are rare. I am interested in hearing more from our astrologers. I really appreciate their interpretations.
It's taken me time to separate emotion but now I also think that ICA is mentally ill. Just throwing my :twocents: in. :)
I also agree being metnally ill does not excuse what was done to Caylee.
momshrink
06-03-2011, 07:29 AM
All I can say is thanks for these interpretations! Leomoon, Katydid, and VidaRose. I am (and always have been) fascinated by family dynamics and the ways that individual and family dynamics interact. These interpretations make so much sense to me. And I think we have to consider all of the family dynamics in order to understand ICA.
Leomoon - I created that new signature last night when I was so tired after yesterdays court session. That was how I felt!
LiveLaughLuv
06-03-2011, 08:18 AM
In my experience, Ceres in a natal chart is said to represent one's sense of 'mother' and one's own mothering skills and ability to nurture. Having an afflicted Ceres would be indicative of being 'abused' or neglected or overpowered by one's mother figures before it would indicate being molested by the father. imoo
Casey has Ceres retro in Virgo, opposed by Jupiter in Pisces. I would [imo] interpret that as Casey having a critical mother figure who was passive aggressive in nature, and who was in opposition to an expansive and nurturing male figure, who was too forgiving and too generous to a fault. But I see nothing in that aspect which denotes sexual assault. imoo
That Ceres also describes HER as a mother. She would feel that inner critical passive/aggressive
tension herself when it comes to being in the role of the nurturer. Being at the midpoint of Saturn/Chiron in Gemini/ Sag may bring about the urge to break free from the bonds of daily routine activities. Those things make her feel deeply insecure and unprepared. Her own mother probably added to that feeling of inferiority because Cindy was a super MOM. everything was just so and just
perfect. How could Casey ever live up to that expectation with such an afflicted sense of Ceres.
Her Ceres is the midpoint of Saturn/Chiron, and the apex of a t-square. I see that as mental stress, nervous exhaustion, perhaps double messages in the home life about honesty/dishonesty. But the mutable mode and the Saturn /Jupiter do not imply sexual
abuse in my opinion. I see it more as a battle between the sexes in the home, as the women emasculating the men, by witholding respect or love, and by being hypercritical.
The Kite is a difficult planetary formation, I agree. An under estimated formation imo.
However, imo, and imo only, it represents' leaving' the body, soaring above reality, escapism, the urge to disconnect from the physical senses. I have not seen it being a representation of physical abuse.
Casey's lies--that she has a good steady job, is in college, has a wealthy boyfriend who gave her a tiffany ring, has lots of successful friends---are the only way she can live up to her family's expectations. The kite is like something that gets out of control, goes airborne, and there is no turning back, onward and upward.
The major planetary formations in Casey's chart seems to be connected to her inability to realistically assess physical reality. I think she may be delusional at times and be at risk of losing touch with reality. But that does not seem to be tied to a father /sexuality issue imo. It seems to be her own personal demons, and inner rage. Sure, she grew up in a dysfunctional family. But I do not see it as the way she is describing it at all. imo
ETA: I can agree that she wanted to rise above her difficult home life. But I do not agree that it was because of sexual abuse by the father. I think it was more likely to do with issues surrounding the tension between the mother and father, their own lack of connection, love and respect for each other. I think she felt a real burden to be a 'perfect' child and felt wholly incapable of doing so. [ Sun in critical degree of Pisces with major afflictions from Moon and from Mars, Uranus and Neptune. I think she felt insecure and inferior in many ways and could not focus well enough to follow through on basic ordinary tasks. [ Sun = Moon/Mars, Uranus in Mutable signs.]
Thank you for your interpetations, Katydid..as well as the other astrologers. Your gift is so very unique....Thank you all...
I see there is emotional/mental/verbal abuse with the two women of that home. I think a domineering, controlling mother who's daughter can never do anything right, led to the animosity between them. I believe they butted heads over how to raise Caylee and of course, it's CA's way or the highway. I also believe since CA was paying the way, gave Caylee lots of attention (as she should, she was her first grandchild), ICA felt she could not measure up to her mothers love.
I also believe ICA was made to feel like only the babysitter to her own child. I believe this was the contention between them and ICA felt 'sibling' rivalry towards her own child.
I do not believe ICA was molested by her father as a child or young teen. I don't buy that theory at all. This is just more of ICA's vengenace and it appears as if she is getting great pleasure in doing so. She is taking delight in embarrasing her family.
As for the lying. Nothing ICA told CA was checked into to, nor was she held responsible for bad behaviors. CA's self proclaimed 'avoidance' tendencies is where this family went wrong with ICA. I also believe CA has that same ability to spin a tale, we've all seen her do this as well. There is no rhyme or reason, they do it just because. JMHO
Justice for Caylee
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