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beach
05-30-2011, 10:59 PM
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panthera
06-04-2011, 09:01 AM
Good morning! :seeya: Court is in session.

Mrs G Norris
06-04-2011, 09:03 AM
Baez has lost HHJP already.....getting another little legal education on the courts time.

jmfstl
06-04-2011, 09:03 AM
JB is renewing his objection to the hair banding testimony per frye. And something about voir dire of this witness.

HHJP says that you lost me on that one

patriciah
06-04-2011, 09:03 AM
this guy is embarrassing

strawberry
06-04-2011, 09:03 AM
We've.done.that.at.a.Frye.Hearing. That's what I was thinking.

Miss Anarchy
06-04-2011, 09:04 AM
Why is Baez wanting to Voir Dire the next witness, who is a FBI analyst?

mombomb
06-04-2011, 09:04 AM
No mini Frey hearing per HHBP.

sleutherontheside
06-04-2011, 09:04 AM
JB wants to do a voir dire of the witness....HHJP said that was already done during the Frye hearing.

shotgun09
06-04-2011, 09:04 AM
Surprise surprise! JB still doesn't get it!

strawberry
06-04-2011, 09:04 AM
I''ve learned a lot about law from HHJP's mini school of JB.

nursebeeme
06-04-2011, 09:04 AM
bumpity bump! did everyone make it over from the sidebar and read the opening post? here we go! Goodmorning friends!

galerie
06-04-2011, 09:04 AM
this guy is embarrassing

He sure is, OMG, so embarrassing

kathyn2
06-04-2011, 09:04 AM
Baez just sounds like a ***** can't say it here! His inexperience really shows!! I am so grateful to Judge Perry for knowing the law and keeping this guy in check.

Mrs G Norris
06-04-2011, 09:04 AM
HHJP says to go back and doing a mini frye hearing, we will not be doing that. Basically, let's not rehash old ground, if you have a problem during testimony OBJECT.

strawberry
06-04-2011, 09:05 AM
What do they mean by Predicate?

Sun
06-04-2011, 09:05 AM
First thing, Baez stands up and objects, and HHJP must explain to Baez the proper way to do things.

sleutherontheside
06-04-2011, 09:05 AM
HHJP is having to give JB and entire semester's worth of lessons this morning.

This is clearly intentional. Nobody can be this stupid.

Quiche
06-04-2011, 09:05 AM
Which witness is he objecting to?

Mountain_Kat
06-04-2011, 09:05 AM
HHJP: We will not have a mini-Frye hearing here today...that's why we had a Frye hearing.

:floorlaugh:

strawberry
06-04-2011, 09:05 AM
JB CANNOT take no for an answer!!!!!

sleutherontheside
06-04-2011, 09:06 AM
OMG......JB must think he has something on her.

Tipstaff
06-04-2011, 09:06 AM
this guy is embarrassing

I have no doubt that he is assisting ICA in setting up a situation for ineffective council upon appeal.

Judge is babysitting JB and trying to allow the trial to proceed he can see the path this is going to take. IMO:banghead:

Liz
06-04-2011, 09:06 AM
Is it just me or does JB seem to be way out of his league? :waitasec:

Phoebeb
06-04-2011, 09:06 AM
What is the Frye hearing? Sorry- keep seein references, but still don't know what it is

galerie
06-04-2011, 09:06 AM
Which witness is he objecting to?

The FBI hair banding expert

Eye Wonder
06-04-2011, 09:06 AM
JB probably thinks he sounds so inteligent...

Rallihanna
06-04-2011, 09:06 AM
I seriously need to get a book on legal terms...

strawberry
06-04-2011, 09:06 AM
Just so I'm clear, am I not allowed to Voir Dire the witness? Didn't he say that 4 times?

nursebeeme
06-04-2011, 09:07 AM
baez wants to voir dire the witness

SurfieTX
06-04-2011, 09:07 AM
Which witness is he objecting to?

According to a tweet, Karen Lowe.

Ricki
06-04-2011, 09:07 AM
JP needs to charge JB for all this schooling.

jmfstl
06-04-2011, 09:07 AM
The reason JB is doing this is he knows this is the evidence that places Caylee M Anthony in the car which his client only had sole possession of.

sleutherontheside
06-04-2011, 09:07 AM
Am I not allowed to voir dire the witnes?

BigFatMommyDog
06-04-2011, 09:07 AM
UGGH Am I not allowed to Voir Dire the witness? HHJP says again NO we did a FRYE hearing

grandmaj
06-04-2011, 09:07 AM
OMG they had a Frye Hearing...... Baez is not getting it.

Miss Anarchy
06-04-2011, 09:07 AM
HHJP: The simple answer is no.

You go Judge!

Tipstaff
06-04-2011, 09:07 AM
Is this Groundhog Day...over and over and over..............

Tuffy
06-04-2011, 09:07 AM
Now Jose doesn't know what to do. "Do I not get to voir dire the witness?"

Tulessa
06-04-2011, 09:07 AM
Here!:seeya:

Good morning Caylee fans and wonderful Mods. :)

summerthyme
06-04-2011, 09:07 AM
What part of NO does JB not understand?

Laynee
06-04-2011, 09:07 AM
good morning friends! JB getting schooled already I see :-)

Mrs G Norris
06-04-2011, 09:07 AM
They are shiz scared of this witness.....I can see why - the hair in the trunk with the death band on it is an absolute clanger.....but then, if they say that Caylee died in the pool then why not just ADMIT her body was in the car and bring it in and then there wouldn't have been a problem.....I digress, but a sharper lawyer could have done a better job of matching evidence and defense theory.

Just saying.

Lucylu7
06-04-2011, 09:07 AM
JB needs to go back to law school

Eye Wonder
06-04-2011, 09:07 AM
Which witness is he objecting to?

All of em...:floorlaugh:!

No seriously its that hair banding girl..Karen Lowe i think?

Rallihanna
06-04-2011, 09:08 AM
Oh my - you didn't have objections at the prior hearing regarding her qualifications, now you do?

MADJGNLAW
06-04-2011, 09:08 AM
NOTE: You can also watch on HLN.. except they have commercials :banghead:

PS: Sat: 2011.06. 04 Nancy Grace to Host Three-Hour Special Tonight on Casey Anthony Trial Nancy Grace LIVE from Orlando, FL and inside the courthouse covering the latest in the murder trial of Tot Mom Casey Anthony.

The programming will be in lieu of HLNís usual Saturday Night Mysteries block.

From 9 AM-1 PM ET Saturday, HLN will feature live court testimony, with the Grace special airing from from 7-10 PM ET, and replaying until early Sunday morning. Sunday HLN will run its usual programming.

strawberry
06-04-2011, 09:08 AM
What is the Frye hearing? Sorry- keep seein references, but still don't know what it is

They had hearings on the scientific evidence to determine if it was sound science and admissable.

PS they're wasting my time! I have to go to the Vet in 10 minutes!

Mountain_Kat
06-04-2011, 09:08 AM
JB, wasting my time first thing this morning.

Shut up, and let's get this show on the road, already! Gah!

BetteDavisEyes
06-04-2011, 09:08 AM
Geez! Here we go again - or, here goes JB again. Wants to change the rules of procedure to suit his purpose. Does Baez actually have a law degree?

Quiche
06-04-2011, 09:08 AM
:giggle:

patriciah
06-04-2011, 09:08 AM
What do they mean by Predicate?

I don't think he knows, he was just throwing out a fancy word

distracted 1976
06-04-2011, 09:08 AM
I would love to see what the SA reaction is to this! Bet JA is about to bust with laughter.

Again....JB is nothing if not consistent. To avoid a TO I will not indicate HOW he is consistant!:floorlaugh:

reeseeva
06-04-2011, 09:08 AM
What is the matter with Mason here....He should know this, even if Baez doesn't....

strawberry
06-04-2011, 09:08 AM
DT really really really really really really really really really really really does not want the jury to hear about this hair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scamperoo
06-04-2011, 09:08 AM
He makes me cringe in embarrassment.....he always insists on getting himself a spanking before we start.

Marina2
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
HHJP snatches case law right out of his head for everything that comes up. He's amazing.

suzihawk
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
God bless HHJP. He has the patience of Job - and then some.

bobloblaw
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
No Casey Cam today?

http://media2.myfoxorlando.com/live/casey_cam_shell.html

anb
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
He.does.not.know.when.to.quit.

Sun
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
Sounds to me that Baez is asking for a do-over of the Frye issues. HHJP is being quite patient in trying to explain to Baez how he cannot have a mini-Frye hearing again after he's already had a Frye hearing.

Tuffy
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
Everyone that didn't go to law school - here's a mini-lecture courtesy of Judge Perry! lol

BigFatMommyDog
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
This is just silly - he goes in for the 3rd time for voir dire

SuziQ
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
lol, HHJP tells Baez no. And Baez asks, what are you trying to tell me?

My words.

Cherry Baby
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
Good gravy JB - the apple only has so many bites! Thank you HHJP, the court has ruled on this already. Time to bring the jury in!

Kimmer
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
What part of No does Baez not seem do understand....I wish someone would Vodire Baez to see if he is an Attorney....

MissJames
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
JB needs to go back to law school

Noooooooooo!:banghead:

Selling bikinis .Much less taxing :innocent:

yllek
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
Baez is rehashing old objections and making amateur requests already.

I respect defense counsel and so glad we have a system that gives them broad lattitude to defend the accused.

So, Baez doesn/t perturb me because he happens to represent a defendant I dislike and his strategy is "out there", imo. Baez perturbs me because he is a discredit to his profession; unskilled, time-wasting, and always expecting to be exempt from the rules that apply to all other attornies. He is always a day late and a dollar short, imo.

countzero
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
HHJP is being a teacher once again. Wonder if JB now has kicked himself over and over since the day he filed the motion to remove HHJS?

TxJan1971
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
HHJP: We've done reliability on the methodology. We already had a Frye hearing. Simple answer is NO. Unless she testifies to something totally different.... Based upon - if memory serves me correct - you didn't have any objections to the Frye hearing - that she was a hair & fiber analysst and she was qualified to be an expert witness. Your objection were based on Frye that this was new or novel scientific evidence. We have established that - you cannot have a mini-Frye hearing again after you've had one. That was tried once in Coral (sp?) vs. State by the defense dealing with some blood evidence.
You can maintain your position - but the Court has ruled. Anything else?

mombomb
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
HHBP - if the state fails to lay a proper foundation that she is qualified, he will let BP voir dire the expert. Reference 9705.

JB not understanding ruling.

What do you want to voir dire the witness about?

JB Witness qualified? Methodology?

HHBP - to JB you didn't have any objections at the Frye hearing. Correll vs. State dealing with blood evidence.

JB - in order to establish proper predicate, he feels voir dire is necessary.

HHBP - I've ruled and we've wasted enough time on that!

Here comes the Jury.

Tiki
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
Oh boy
the answer is NO!

i have a headache already

.

Oakley
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
Just so I'm clear, am I not allowed to Voir Dire the witness? Didn't he say that 4 times?

Maybe the Judge needs to tell Jose in plain English so he understands?

Whome?
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
Instead of taking pictures with tourist during lunch, JB should have been studying his law books JMHO:twocents::maddening:

Rallihanna
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
Judge- I rule that we've wasted enough time...

Point noted!

Quiche
06-04-2011, 09:09 AM
I do not want to see Baez lay a predicate. Nope.

Liz
06-04-2011, 09:10 AM
Me: Mr. Baezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Anakerie
06-04-2011, 09:10 AM
I seriously need to get a book on legal terms...
Same here.. I wonder if the "dummies" guys have one called "Trial Procedure for Dummies"... I've learned a lot from Judge Perry's lessons for Jose, but.. Geez... Is Mason helping Baez come up with these insane objections and stuff??

SideKick
06-04-2011, 09:10 AM
Is the Casey Cam not working?

mankato64
06-04-2011, 09:10 AM
It is 6 am here. I have had only one diet coke, never went to law school and even I get it. JB there are no words...

BigFatMommyDog
06-04-2011, 09:10 AM
No Casey Cam today?

http://media2.myfoxorlando.com/live/casey_cam_shell.html

I know, I cant get it either

panthera
06-04-2011, 09:10 AM
So much for the hearing........jury is entering the courtroom.

HLN is broadcasting the trial.

sleutherontheside
06-04-2011, 09:10 AM
I've ruled, and we've wasted enough time on that already. HHJP

Chiquita71
06-04-2011, 09:10 AM
:tyou:

JB: is bringing up his previous objections

HHJP: we have done that at the Frye hearing, all you have to do is object. The state has to lay a foundation like they do with all witnesses, we don't do a mini Frye hearing we all ready did that.

JB: no of course...we need to do some voir dire...we are intitiled to voir dire the witness to see if the witness meets the qualifications.

HHJP: if they did not have qualifications...but we are not going to have a mini Frye hearing. I will note your motion. To exclude the post mortum banding and the unreliablity of scientific...or some defect in the predicate I will allow you to voir dire but we already had a frye hearing.

JB: we feel that voir dire the witness at that time would help the jury...methodology employed.

HHJP: an expert may testify with their opinions...that is what that talks about, correct?

JB: ?

HHJP: okay

JB: am I not allowed to voir dire the witness or will the court give me some type of indication?

HHJP: what are you trying to voir dire the witness on?

JB: methodology...

HHJP: we had a frye hearing on that...no. Unless she testifies to something totally different as to her qualifications...as I remember you did not have any objections during the frye hearing. Your objections were based on the idea this was new and novel evidence. We have established you cannot have a mini frye hearing.

JB: her qualifications she was questioned about that, we maintain our position.

HHJP: you can maintain your position. I have ruled. If they don't lay a predicate and the witness testifies...and for whatever reason...I have ruled and we have wasted enough time on that. Let's bring in the jury.

Steely Dan
06-04-2011, 09:10 AM
Geez! Here we go again - or, here goes JB again. Wants to change the rules of procedure to suit his purpose. Does Baez actually have a law degree?

How long til JB falls on the floor and has a tantrum? :waitasec:

Miss Anarchy
06-04-2011, 09:10 AM
They are shiz scared of this witness.....I can see why - the hair in the trunk with the death band on it is an absolute clanger.....but then, if they say that Caylee died in the pool then why not just ADMIT her body was in the car and bring it in and then there wouldn't have been a problem.....I digress, but a sharper lawyer could have done a better job of matching evidence and defense theory.

Just saying.

ICA.

JB is trying to disqualify this witness or do anything he can to stop her from being an "expert" so that she can't give her opinion. Apparently, only "experts" can give their opinion.

Americka
06-04-2011, 09:10 AM
IIRC, predicate means grounding or foundation.

Ricki
06-04-2011, 09:10 AM
KC looking at Baez like OH ***** now what do we do

Chiquita71
06-04-2011, 09:10 AM
So much for the hearing........jury is entering the courtroom.


:tyou: panthera :blowkiss:

mombomb
06-04-2011, 09:10 AM
State calls Karen Lowe.

strawberry
06-04-2011, 09:11 AM
I love this witness! She is sharp!

Rallihanna
06-04-2011, 09:11 AM
Here comes the hair!

Tuffy
06-04-2011, 09:11 AM
What do they mean by Predicate?


1. To base or establish (a statement or action, for example): I predicated my argument on the facts.
2. To state or affirm as an attribute or quality of something: The sermon predicated the perfectibility of humankind.
3. To carry the connotation of; imply.
4. Logic To make (a term or expression) the predicate of a proposition.
5. To proclaim or assert; declare.

Rallihanna
06-04-2011, 09:11 AM
Any sites have a working Casey Cam?

mitzi
06-04-2011, 09:11 AM
Yay! Here comes JA!!!!! Been waiting for this forensic to begin!

Liz
06-04-2011, 09:12 AM
Ms. Lowe is looking at the jury as she responds to the questions.

nursebeeme
06-04-2011, 09:12 AM
KL up: remember to keep posts on topic! You guys continue to do such a good job with this and we thank you!

Miss Anarchy
06-04-2011, 09:12 AM
Any sites have a working Casey Cam?

http://www.wftv.com/caseyanthony/index.html

I'm on there now and its working.

Mountain_Kat
06-04-2011, 09:12 AM
Oh noes...Lowe directing her answers to the jury!

Careful, Karen...CM is watching you. LOL!

GiantPickle
06-04-2011, 09:12 AM
Good morning everyone and so sorry for your luck Mr Baez.....

strawberry
06-04-2011, 09:13 AM
Here's the foundation/predicate or whatever, right?

panthera
06-04-2011, 09:13 AM
Trial coverage online:

http://www.wftv.com/caseyanthony/index.html

sarah1215
06-04-2011, 09:13 AM
Any sites have a working Casey Cam?

The windows media player link is on ICA

sleutherontheside
06-04-2011, 09:13 AM
The mfile link is only showing KC.

USARDOG
06-04-2011, 09:13 AM
Oh boy, this lady is a very sharp cookie IMO... I think JB will get eaten if he tries her...

Tipstaff
06-04-2011, 09:13 AM
So now the PT will lay out every class clear down to basket weaving 101 to thwart JB.

Scamperoo
06-04-2011, 09:13 AM
I bet we are going to hear "objection" from Baez every few minutes.....ad nauseum

Liz
06-04-2011, 09:13 AM
Any sites have a working Casey Cam?

WESH has pic in pic Casey-Cam.
http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/interactive.html

mitzi
06-04-2011, 09:13 AM
I love this witness! She is sharp!

She also looks at the jury! Take that Mason!!!!:floorlaugh:

Dr.Fessel
06-04-2011, 09:13 AM
Another pretty professional lady to make Casey look bad and I am sure Baez will end up so also.

galerie
06-04-2011, 09:14 AM
Is there a link for the witnesses too, the media is only on ICA

reeseeva
06-04-2011, 09:14 AM
There goes KC again, with that look of envy/disdain/jealously, at a well-educated young woman.

Miss Anarchy
06-04-2011, 09:14 AM
State is establishing KL, FBI analyst, as a expert.

She's gonna give her opinion on the death banding on the hair. Its gonna be another nail in ICA's coffin!

Tuffy
06-04-2011, 09:14 AM
Bachelors of Science in Biology, Masters of Science in Forensics, Post-Graduate courses in Forensics. She knows her stuff!

jmfstl
06-04-2011, 09:14 AM
She sounds very qualified to me. I wonder if JB will object.

strawberry
06-04-2011, 09:14 AM
Any sites have a working Casey Cam?

wesh.com has a split screen
http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/interactive.html

SideKick
06-04-2011, 09:14 AM
Her 44th testimony
Qualified - touched on hair examinations.. ..
yup CASEY

Nali87
06-04-2011, 09:15 AM
Reflecting on yesterday testimonies, JB really got ahead of himself with the hair related questions. (Claiming that the hairs found were animal hair.) He wanted to discredit Bloise, but THIS witness is the one who is capable of answer his science-related questions. Actually, I'm sure he knew that, he probably wanted to make Bloise look bad.

nursebeeme
06-04-2011, 09:15 AM
brief defense voir dire on qualifications: everyone be good ;-)

Oakley
06-04-2011, 09:15 AM
I thought the judge said No? He's letting him do the Voir Doire? (sp?

strawberry
06-04-2011, 09:15 AM
SOTS your hunny is sick! I thought DS did the experts :waitasec:

mombomb
06-04-2011, 09:15 AM
Karen Korsberg Lowe being questioned by JA.

Trace evidence expert with the FBI. Worked for FBI for over 15 years, 13 in this position.

BS in Biology, MS in Criminal Justice and several post grad forensic sciences classes.

FBI training - just over a year in training within FBI, tests, Boards. 13 years qualified as an examiner. She has been qualified in court 44 times to give expert testimony in trace examining.

Majority of expert testimony has touched on microscopic examination of hairs

JA presented her as Expert.

JB objected and HHBP allowing him to voir dire the witness.

This is the first time she has testified on hair banding

Side bar.

uklaw
06-04-2011, 09:15 AM
Oh no! JB you can't cross-examine to save yourself, why not let Sims have the limelight, since she knows what she is doing.

BigFatMommyDog
06-04-2011, 09:15 AM
Oh noes...Lowe directing her answers to the jury!

Careful, Karen...CM is watching you. LOL!

That's the very first thing i noticed - and of course Jeff Ashton sets up all of her qualifications.

Oh no, here goes JB into his pet project .

Tipstaff
06-04-2011, 09:15 AM
JB still did it............WOW....he needs a time out (Big Fine)

stilettos
06-04-2011, 09:15 AM
Judge- I rule that we've wasted enough time...

Point noted!

I am lovin me some HHJP today...bust Baez a new one...he needs remedial courses in trial law.

darnudes
06-04-2011, 09:15 AM
wow - they are desperate to keep Karen Lowe out of this trial - she must scare the pants off them

Rallihanna
06-04-2011, 09:15 AM
Sidebar? Did he ask something he wasn't supposed to after 1 question?

Liz
06-04-2011, 09:16 AM
JP allowing brief voir dire afterall.

patriciah
06-04-2011, 09:16 AM
Same here.. I wonder if the "dummies" guys have one called "Trial Procedure for Dummies"... I've learned a lot from Judge Perry's lessons for Jose, but.. Geez... Is Mason helping Baez come up with these insane objections and stuff??

I think there is a free version of Black's Law Dictionary online, maybe JB could consult it

Chiquita71
06-04-2011, 09:16 AM
The witness is explaining her credentials.

JA: how long ago that you became qualified as an examiner?

13 years

JA: ever been called to testify?

44 testimony

JA: how many juristictions?

federal, state and local area

JA: how many time for hair?

I don't track it that way but most have a least touched on hair

JA: your honor this is an expert on trace evidence, specifically hair

HHJP: you can have a small voir dire as to her expertise.

JB: is going to question this witness about her being an expert "or not."

Mountain_Kat
06-04-2011, 09:16 AM
15 minutes in and we're already at sidebar. JB is determined to make these 4 hours of testimony as tedious for the jury as possible. :(

jmfstl
06-04-2011, 09:16 AM
JB: (Voir Dire) "This is the first time you have testified on hair banding correct?

Witness: correct

sidebar

Miss Anarchy
06-04-2011, 09:16 AM
JB only asked 1 question -

Is this your first time testifying on hair banding?

KL - Yes.

I hope this doesn't come back to bite the state. But if the science is sound, someone has to be the first. Hopefully HHJP will allow it.

kathyn2
06-04-2011, 09:16 AM
why did they get someone that has never testified about hairbanding before??

why is the judge allowing this voir dire? he must not think she is all that qualified. Couldn't the state find someone more qualified that has done this before?

strawberry
06-04-2011, 09:16 AM
Oh no! JB you can't cross-examine to save yourself, why not let Sims have the limelight, since she knows what she is doing.

I know, I'm confused why JB is doing it. Trying to make a name for himself? :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

jamiect
06-04-2011, 09:17 AM
Baez asks Lowe if this is first time she's examined... Judge immediately calls attorneys to the bench. Perry looked annoyed.
by cfnews13casey via twitter at 9:16 AM

nursebeeme
06-04-2011, 09:17 AM
sidebar called by judge after JB asked during his voir dire if she had ever testified on banding before

mitzi
06-04-2011, 09:17 AM
Sidebar...I think Lil JB is getting a spanking! :)

Horace Finklestein
06-04-2011, 09:17 AM
If she's not qualified...then who on Earth is??

Fluffy Puppy
06-04-2011, 09:17 AM
Geeeeeez first question from Baez ("is this th first time you have testified on hair banding") already an objection and approach. This guy has more mini-ambushes than hairs on his arm.

logicalgirl
06-04-2011, 09:17 AM
Darn - was fooling around with getting the double site up and missed Baez's" opening statements"

BigFatMommyDog
06-04-2011, 09:17 AM
I sure hope the jury gets wise to JBs tactics - they have to realize that he really does not want this testimony to come in....

momtective
06-04-2011, 09:17 AM
Man alive! The DT does not want KL testifying!

BigFatMommyDog
06-04-2011, 09:19 AM
UGHHH Frye hearing redux

Tiki
06-04-2011, 09:19 AM
waste of time because DT is going to say she's not qualified no matter what she says.
I remember this from Frye hearing.
Why isn't DS doing this?
well - I guess I'm glad she's not

.

Mrs G Norris
06-04-2011, 09:19 AM
Baez is making her sound more qualified the more questions he asks about her education.

momtective
06-04-2011, 09:19 AM
I sure hope the jury can see the DT's desperation.

Quiche
06-04-2011, 09:19 AM
Thank you God. Now let's get on with it!

megsy
06-04-2011, 09:19 AM
Is the jury in there for this?

strawberry
06-04-2011, 09:19 AM
Sheesh! I have to be a good dog mommy and go to the vet.

Patience
06-04-2011, 09:19 AM
Baez to FBI Your training entitles you to only give an opinion? Is that what he is saying?

Chiquita71
06-04-2011, 09:20 AM
JB: miss lowe the topics you will cover today. the amount of training you received is a six month course.

objection
overruled

six months yes

JB: the course you have taken on this topic there are a total of three or was it just that course.

on the job training

JB: and only six months contained this part

yes

JB: only read articles

articles and case work

JB: you render an opinion?

correct

JB: your on the job training is you giving an opinion

objection
sustained

JB: no further questions

(nice try Jose) :thumb:

RiverRat
06-04-2011, 09:20 AM
:tyou:

JB: is bringing up his previous objections

HHJP: we have done that at the Frye hearing, all you have to do is object. The state has to lay a foundation like they do with all witnesses, we don't do a mini Frye hearing we all ready did that.

JB: no of course...we need to do some voir dire...we are intitiled to voir dire the witness to see if the witness meets the qualifications.

HHJP: if they did not have qualifications...but we are not going to have a mini Frye hearing. I will note your motion. To exclude the post mortum banding and the unreliablity of scientific...or some defect in the predicate I will allow you to voir dire but we already had a frye hearing.

JB: we feel that voir dire the witness at that time would help the jury...methodology employed.

HHJP: an expert may testify with their opinions...that is what that talks about, correct?

JB: ?

HHJP: okay

JB: am I not allowed to voir dire the witness or will the court give me some type of indication?

HHJP: what are you trying to voir dire the witness on?

JB: methodology...

HHJP: we had a frye hearing on that...no. Unless she testifies to something totally different as to her qualifications...as I remember you did not have any objections during the frye hearing. Your objections were based on the idea this was new and novel evidence. We have established you cannot have a mini frye hearing.

JB: her qualifications she was questioned about that, we maintain our position.

HHJP: you can maintain your position. I have ruled. If they don't lay a predicate and the witness testifies...and for whatever reason...I have ruled and we have wasted enough time on that. Let's bring in the jury.

Class Dismissed, Jose! :floorlaugh:

Miss Anarchy
06-04-2011, 09:20 AM
Yay! HHJP ruled KL is an Expert. She can testify about death banding. I'm sure JB will aggressively try to discredit the science.

MADJGNLAW
06-04-2011, 09:21 AM
Oh my did Baez not already questioned her qualifications? Judge Perry has patients I tell ya. :banghead: No way the defense will be able to claim a mistrial IMO. They have been treated more than fairly and allowed to spend more than enough of the tax payers money for this trial. Any other inmate would not get this kind of special treatment IMO. Good for Perry, let them throw themselves in a cell all together IMO...! Jezz...:maddening:

Listen here if you lost feed, I did on other sites already. http://www.wftv.com/caseyanthony/index.html

Tuffy
06-04-2011, 09:21 AM
Is the jury in there for this?

Yes. They are.

Eidetic
06-04-2011, 09:21 AM
The mfile link is only showing KC.

They are showing the double screen now.

Mountain_Kat
06-04-2011, 09:21 AM
The "mock juror" loves this witness. She makes it very easy for a lay person to understand what she's talking about. :)

strawberry
06-04-2011, 09:21 AM
@CFNews13Casey Casey Anthony News13
In the past Baez has called this form of hair science "junk"

Patience
06-04-2011, 09:21 AM
Ahaaa talking comparison microscoptes, and then she lost me.

Oakley
06-04-2011, 09:22 AM
Geeeeeez first question from Baez ("is this th first time you have testified on hair banding") already an objection and approach. This guy has more mini-ambushes than hairs on his arm.

Would have loved for her to ask him "Is this the first time you've handled a death penalty case?"

Harmony2
06-04-2011, 09:22 AM
reposting links:

http://www.clickorlando.com/video/19046963/index.html

http://www.wftv.com/caseytriallive1/index.html

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/subindex/news/anthony_case

http://mfile.akamai.com/12909/live/reflector:20877.asx

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/caylee-anthony/os-tivid-casey-anthony-jury-livestream,0,999563.htmlstory

http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/interactive.html (split screen showing Casey)

http://live.cnn.com/

http://www.wdbo.com/caseyontrialvideo/

Tuffy
06-04-2011, 09:22 AM
She's explaining how she does the side-by-side analysis of hair using a bridge microscope.

Nali87
06-04-2011, 09:22 AM
What is JB trying to prove about her training being only 6 months? I'm in college and all my courses, for example Business Law only lasts two months; but I have to read 2 enormous 800 pages expensive books, do an exam, write essays and based on those two months it's considered that I understand the material. Coupled with her years of experience, I assume the woman knows what she's talking about.

Agatha_C
06-04-2011, 09:22 AM
bobkealing bob kealing
#caseyanthonytrial Looks like three or four jurors taking notes. Lowe: Can't say hair matches but can find "consistent"

Patience
06-04-2011, 09:22 AM
Root appearance will tell her how the hair was removed from the body.

Agatha_C
06-04-2011, 09:23 AM
JimLichtenstein Jim Lichtenstein
Did you know that the prosecutor up now, Jeff Ashton, was the first to ever get DNA used in a US court? #caseyanthony #caseyanthonytrial

bobloblaw
06-04-2011, 09:23 AM
Did you know that the prosecutor up now, Jeff Ashton, was the first to ever get DNA used in a US court? #caseyanthony #caseyanthonytrialby jimlichtenstein via twitter at 6:22 AM

ahoyhoy
06-04-2011, 09:24 AM
I am LOVING all these COMPOSED, GORGEOUS, EXPERT female witnesses!
Isn't the jury 8/12 Female?

RiverRat
06-04-2011, 09:24 AM
I do not want to see Baez lay a predicate. Nope.

LOL - is that what the kids are calling "IT" these days?! I'm sure that ICA is the only one up for that....In my legal days, precidate would be Set - for better or worse here in the Paradise named Florida!

RR

manatee
06-04-2011, 09:24 AM
Why is the DT even fighting the fact that a "dead" Caylee WAS in the pontiac! They've already admitted that KC held a "drowned" Caylee in her arms. Why not just say that "yes" Caylee was transported to the dump site in the pontiac. They are so inconsistent with their own theory it makes me want to scream! :banghead:

ljwf22
06-04-2011, 09:24 AM
HLN - too many commercials. Missed the sidebar. JB objected? Then got to question the witness? :banghead:

uklaw
06-04-2011, 09:24 AM
Too technical Mrs Witness.

sleutherontheside
06-04-2011, 09:24 AM
Hilarious.......she cited Patreco.....JB's old expert he did not use.

BigFatMommyDog
06-04-2011, 09:24 AM
The "mock juror" loves this witness. She makes it very easy for a lay person to understand what she's talking about. :)

She was OUTSTANDING at the Frye Hearing - that's why JB is shaking in his shoes - of course the fact the DT expert Petraco agreed with her (he wasn't called, but that fact made it clear that DT learned he had agreed) made it all that much more fun

LiveLaughLuv
06-04-2011, 09:24 AM
1988 Petraco...who the defense had hired but didn't use...this is when this first came into play....it isn't 'junk' science...

Patience
06-04-2011, 09:24 AM
She studied hair decomp obviously indepth.

Tuffy
06-04-2011, 09:24 AM
Explaining a paper studying hair roots, esp. root banding in post-mortem hairs.

SurfieTX
06-04-2011, 09:25 AM
First professional journal article about hair banding was in the 1980s. Another in 1998 in Journal of Forensic Science - nuclear DNA and enzymes re: Death. Another in JFS in 2000s.

yllek
06-04-2011, 09:25 AM
This FBI analyst witness is awesome! I completely understand everything she is saying.

Yep, she is an expert and a wonderful speaker to boot. IMO...

Softail
06-04-2011, 09:25 AM
I'm just waiting for CM to jump up and yell.... "Hey, I'm over here" :wave:

Liz
06-04-2011, 09:25 AM
It's very technical talk but the jury seems to be following and listening. Today will be all about evidence and science, not emotion.

by cfnews13casey via twitter at 6:24 AM

Scamperoo
06-04-2011, 09:25 AM
15 minutes in and we're already at sidebar. JB is determined to make these 4 hours of testimony as tedious for the jury as possible. :(

Yes he will want to bore the jury so they lose focus, don't think it will happen here though. Unless, it's Baez to cross where his convoluted reasoning will be a soporific to the jury.

Laynee
06-04-2011, 09:25 AM
very intelligent witness...< she lost me at hello...lol>

jmfstl
06-04-2011, 09:25 AM
Lowe is fully versed and can state many papers backing up her information.

Rallihanna
06-04-2011, 09:25 AM
She just talked about how this can show a body was moved... because hair with the decomp band was found at an original location. Gee... that's what we have here isn't it?

Chiquita71
06-04-2011, 09:26 AM
JA: the history of the science of hair banding

the late 1700's in the USA since the 1930's

JA: process?

three steps: collection, identification and comparison. Does with a microscope, a comparasion microscope are two high powered microscope...kind of like a split screen so I can compare the samples...if a characteristic is the same as another I can identifiy it is like the other.

JA: please give some info regarding how this works.

(I missed a big explanation)

JA: they do these examinations around the world?

yes

JA: in the literature is there something about decomp and the hair

yes

JA: history of that?

1988 Petraco, an evaluation of the morphology...they looked at hairs at all the growth stages...the portion of the hair the keratin was hardened...evaluation of human hair...journal of forensic sciences...can nuclear dna...enzyme mimicks one of the characterists of human decomp...

ami
06-04-2011, 09:26 AM
I like this expert witness, she's really sharp. Hope this isn't too technical for the jury - or that the evidence itself is spoken about in a more basic way. She's very believable and sounds capable and certain. (also she looks just like the mother from Gilmore Girls)

Tuffy
06-04-2011, 09:26 AM
Why is the DT even fighting the fact that a "dead" Caylee WAS in the pontiac! They've already admitted that KC held a "drowned" Caylee in her arms. Why not just say that "yes" Caylee was transported to the dump site in the pontiac. They are so inconsistent with their own theory it makes me want to scream! :banghead:

JB would object, then overrule this post under predicate! :floorlaugh:

Tipstaff
06-04-2011, 09:26 AM
JimLichtenstein Jim Lichtenstein
Did you know that the prosecutor up now, Jeff Ashton, was the first to ever get DNA used in a US court? #caseyanthony #caseyanthonytrial

Good, great then Jeff Ashton will kick JB's objections and delay and avoidance tactics to the curb :great:

Chiquita71
06-04-2011, 09:26 AM
:yes: Ms. Lowe is extremely intelligent. I cannot follow with my limited vocabulary and spelling skills.

bobloblaw
06-04-2011, 09:27 AM
I am LOVING all these COMPOSED, GORGEOUS, EXPERT female witnesses!
Isn't the jury 8/12 Female?

Do you think the female jurors would put more weight to a female witness?

grandmaj
06-04-2011, 09:27 AM
It is always difficult when we start off the way we did but let's talk about the trial testimony here please. :)

LiveLaughLuv
06-04-2011, 09:27 AM
ICA doesn't seem as confident as she did earlier....she seems deflated...I do hope the reality is starting to hit her that she might just wind up on DR...JMHO

Nali87
06-04-2011, 09:27 AM
I don't understand everything she's saying but she has convinced me she knows what she's talking about, lol. Her mannerism, her confidence, her voice. It's obvious she's done her research and knows what she's talking about!

sarag
06-04-2011, 09:27 AM
Can they compare strands of hair found with the duct tape to strands of hair found in the car?

nursebeeme
06-04-2011, 09:27 AM
she is saying that hair left out in the elements did not get a root band (hairs taken from live people)

hairs only get a band on a decomposing person

uklaw
06-04-2011, 09:27 AM
Did she say when the first hair banding study was that attempted to differentiate post mortem banding from other banding?

Mountain_Kat
06-04-2011, 09:27 AM
Wondering if these studies she's referring to come from The Body Farm. Sure sound like it.

kjt300
06-04-2011, 09:27 AM
I just don't get it..

Why fight all of the evidence about the car? Why aren't they saying something like, "George put the body in the trunk and demanded that Casey not "mention" it to anyone until he dumped the body....that would explain why the car smelled, why a hair with banding was present, etc".

Of course it would make no sense, but at the very least it would play into Jose's odd and twisted "story"...

So again, why fight it?

MOO

Ricki
06-04-2011, 09:28 AM
Wow. This witness has many papers to back up this so called junk science. This will be very damning for the DF

ahi
06-04-2011, 09:29 AM
:bowdown:Awesome witness...LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE...

Patience
06-04-2011, 09:29 AM
Poster by laboratory to be used for educational purposes, thank goodness. No objections.

SurfieTX
06-04-2011, 09:29 AM
Educational poster being put up to help explain the science to the jury.

mombomb
06-04-2011, 09:29 AM
The hair portion of her extensive training was 6 months. This was during the year of on the job training. Rest of knowledge comes from reading articles and experiencing case work. She does examination then renders opinion.

End of voir dire by JB.

JA submits witness as expert. HHBP accepts her as expert on hair examination.

History of hair examination - since late 1700s. In U.S. since the late 1930's.

Forensic examination of hairs is done in 3 steps - collection, examination and comparison.

Hair examination is not a means of positive I.D. She can say consistent or can exclude - example - race. Can tell if hair was pulled or fell out. Can determine disease or chemical treatment.

Signs of decomposition shown in hair - first paper in 1988 which looks at hairs in all the growth phases and defined characteristics of post mort. hair banding. Next paper looks at nuclear hair banding. 2000 paper studies two cases of post mort. hair banding. 2001 two part paper - first looks at 22 post mort hair band cases. Post mort root band first seen at 2 days. Second portion looks at post mort hair put out for a period of time with no changes. These papers are all published in the Journal of Forensic Science.

Cause of root banding not known. Artifact has not been replicated in anything other than a decomposing body.

JA shows poster prepared by her lab for educational purposes.

Rallihanna
06-04-2011, 09:29 AM
Witness is going to step down so they're getting her a mic.

miss plum
06-04-2011, 09:29 AM
She is great.

Tuffy
06-04-2011, 09:29 AM
She's explaining the study of hairs from known bodies at various stages of decomposition. She is also explaining that the studies don't explain 'why' the banding appears, just that it does only on post-mortem hairs.

Liz
06-04-2011, 09:30 AM
Follower question: jurors following along several taking notes. Ashton with large poster exhibit on hair characteristics.

by bobkealing via twitter at 6:29 AM

BigFatMommyDog
06-04-2011, 09:30 AM
I havent heard the term lavalier in years!

Chiquita71
06-04-2011, 09:30 AM
JA: the original paper from 1988...

yes

JA: the last paper you talked about: hairs in evironments...

none of the hairs in that studies showed any changes.

JA: all of these studies are they all published?

yes

JA: does the research reveal what causes the hair band?

no, we are not sure exactly what causes it just what the microscopic appearance is

JA: is there any indication that this artifact is created something other than the contact between the hair and the decomposing body.

?

JA: may I approach the witness, this is a poster prepared by your lab for educational purposes, would it help you?

yes it would

JA: (bringing over a poster for visual reference while the witness explains a method that is used to determine if a hair is from a human cadaver.)

Agatha_C
06-04-2011, 09:30 AM
bobkealing bob kealing
#caseyanthonytrial Follower question: jurors following along several taking notes. Ashton with large poster exhibit on hair characteristics.

Tuffy
06-04-2011, 09:30 AM
Wondering if these studies she's referring to come from The Body Farm. Sure sound like it.

It does, doesn't it. I'm not sure how many facilities like The Body Farm, are out there. It might be the only one of it's kind.

Harmony2
06-04-2011, 09:31 AM
Why is the DT even fighting the fact that a "dead" Caylee WAS in the pontiac! They've already admitted that KC held a "drowned" Caylee in her arms. Why not just say that "yes" Caylee was transported to the dump site in the pontiac. They are so inconsistent with their own theory it makes me want to scream! :banghead:


Because of two words

duct tape

sleutherontheside
06-04-2011, 09:31 AM
You just know JB's thinking...Their poster is prettier than my poster.

Tipstaff
06-04-2011, 09:31 AM
:yes: Ms. Lowe is extremely intelligent. I cannot follow with my limited vocabulary and spelling skills.

Beg to differ - you are awesome!

jmfstl
06-04-2011, 09:31 AM
One thing really bothers me is JB getting up from the defense table when the SA is presenting its case. I don't believe this should be allowed. If he cannot see the exibit it should be on his monitor.

Laynee
06-04-2011, 09:31 AM
WOW something meaningful on the display easel, other than a huge calender :-) JB, take note--this is what the easel is for!

Scamperoo
06-04-2011, 09:31 AM
I just don't get it..

Why fight all of the evidence about the car? Why aren't they saying something like, "George put the body in the trunk and demanded that Casey not "mention" it to anyone until he dumped the body....that would explain why the car smelled, why a hair with banding was present, etc".

Of course it would make no sense, but at the very least it would play into Jose's odd and twisted "story"...

So again, why fight it?

MOO

Because there is no evidence to support this.

Tulessa
06-04-2011, 09:31 AM
My Casey Cam is down. Anyone have another one ?

butwhatif?
06-04-2011, 09:32 AM
JB+ DS chat about hair testimony

Tuffy
06-04-2011, 09:32 AM
Oh, good a poster. Visual representations of what she's talking about!

Mountain_Kat
06-04-2011, 09:32 AM
Wow...Lowe would make an excellent teacher!

Chiquita71
06-04-2011, 09:32 AM
Karen Lowe explaining what is observed in hair analysis

jurors view photos of hairs.

smart blonde
06-04-2011, 09:33 AM
from bobkealing via twitter @ 6:26 a.m.

"Jeff Ashton prosecuted in Perry's court rapist/ murderer John Huggins- who is now on death row."

DesSands
06-04-2011, 09:33 AM
I''ve learned a lot about law from HHJP's mini school of JB.

Me too, I feel like I've had a crash course in law. If I wasn't so old, I'd take the bar exam. :floorlaugh:

watcher9
06-04-2011, 09:33 AM
When they show this instruction and display of hair banding to the jury, does the camera video it so it can be broadcast at the same time to ICA and the gallery?

Softail
06-04-2011, 09:33 AM
WESH: http://www.wesh.com/casey-anthony-extended-coverage/interactive.html

WESH has PIP (picture in picture) Casey in small box at the bottom

WFTV:http://www.wftv.com/caseyanthony/index.html

NOTE: WFTV has 2 live feeds:
1 follows the action- http://www.wftv.com/caseytriallive1/index.html

One on Casey all the time: http://www.wftv.com/caseytriallive2/index.html


Click Orlando:http://www.clickorlando.com/video/19046963/index.html

FOX:http://www.myfoxorlando.com/subindex/our_programs/live

Media player:http://mfile.akamai.com/12909/live/reflector:20877.asx

WFTVTV sound http://player.streamtheworld.com/_players/coxradio/?callsign=WFTVTV

CNN http://live.cnn.com/

WDBO http://www.wdbo.com/caseyontrialvideo/

uklaw
06-04-2011, 09:33 AM
Why is JB watching this and DS. This DT is all over the place and it seems clueless.

ahoyhoy
06-04-2011, 09:34 AM
Do you think the female jurors would put more weight to a female witness?

No, I think some MALE jury members would have a tougher time REALLY believing a women.


I actually read a study a WHILE back that if a woman acts smart and confident, men AND women are LESS likely to give weight to her opinions than if she if she acts uncertain & 'dumb'(scientific term).

But MOO is women jurors WILL respect these witnesses more as experts. JMO

belle3
06-04-2011, 09:34 AM
The reason JB is doing this is he knows this is the evidence that places Caylee M Anthony in the car which his client only had sole possession of.

Quick question? sorry for the ot. But, can the sa bring in the hearing where jb says that miss anthony was in sole possession of the car the whole time?

Liz
06-04-2011, 09:34 AM
It's hard to see poster in gallery but state says it's a poster expert uses in office to explain hair root banding.

by cfnews13casey via twitter at 6:32 AM

Agatha_C
06-04-2011, 09:34 AM
bobkealing bob kealing
#caseyanthonytrial George and Cindy Anthony back in court again. Jury looking at this presentation pretty cliosely.

tiredofthis
06-04-2011, 09:35 AM
She knows what she is talking about. I agree with a previous poster, she would make a great teacher.

Mountain_Kat
06-04-2011, 09:35 AM
JA is on the ball! Making sure the witness stops to thoroughly explain terms the jury might not know or understand. :)

I'm able to follow this testimony quite easily, and I know NOTHING about hair evidence.

Nali87
06-04-2011, 09:35 AM
Sit down JB. I think he does it just to annoy and distract the witness and the prosecution!

jamiect
06-04-2011, 09:35 AM
caseyanthonytrial George and Cindy Anthony back in court again. Jury looking at this presentation pretty cliosely.
by bobkealing via twitter at 9:33 AM

Ricki
06-04-2011, 09:35 AM
The jury will know that it is definetly
Caylees hair by time this witness is done with her explanation. I don't think the DF will be able to undo what she is teaching them.

BigFatMommyDog
06-04-2011, 09:36 AM
No, I think some MALE jury members would have a tougher time REALLY believing a women.


I actually read a study a WHILE back that if a woman acts smart and confident, men AND women are LESS likely to give weight to her opinions than if she if she acts uncertain & 'dumb'(scientific term).

But MOO is women jurors WILL respect these witnesses more as experts. JMO

I weep for humanity

Softail
06-04-2011, 09:37 AM
Karen Lowe is awesome! She is doing a great job!

:great:

SurfieTX
06-04-2011, 09:37 AM
I vaguely remember this stuff called hair...
by jimlichtenstein via twitter at 7:36 AM

Haha!

jamiect
06-04-2011, 09:37 AM
Hi all... we're having an internet issue at the station. I got booted as well.
by Gabe Travers/WESH.com at 9:37 AM

Liz
06-04-2011, 09:37 AM
FBI fiber examiner Karen Korsberg Lowe is explaining how you can tell if a hair has been shed naturally or pulled out #caseyanthonytrial

by oscaseyanthony via twitter at 6:35 AM


#caseyanthonytrial George and Cindy Anthony back in court again. Jury looking at this presentation pretty cliosely.

by bobkealing via twitter at 6:33 AM

fifteen89
06-04-2011, 09:37 AM
Well, that was a lot more informative that the gigantic calendar. Just makes it appear like someone is 'playing' a lawyer.

QueenD
06-04-2011, 09:37 AM
My Casey Cam is down. Anyone have another one ?

First one in your siggie is working for me

Chiquita71
06-04-2011, 09:38 AM
The top show the three growth stages: pigment production all the way through in the first stage, it was still actively growing, within the folicle...

JA: internal root sheath?

within your scalp. so the outer portion of the hair...if you have pulled out a hair that is why. The portion that is still on the scalp...the keratin...keeps it soft.

This hair has completed the cycle and has shed...kind of looks like a q tip...if I see this hair I know it has been naturally shed....

JA: is that because they are shed before death

objection
overruled

they may still be in the head and not shed yet. it is thought because the keratin has hardened it is not as moldable. Still in the andogyn phase...the portion above the band had hardened and what is underneath is still soft.

JA: the transistion phase between what is still growing and what is hard and set

may be darkened and come to a point. The paper by lynch. Something similar...

JA: this appearance according to lynch...

this appearance has not been replicated by andogyn hairs....

last is a brush like appearance, sometimes this also has a reddish brown...a later stage of decomp...so any of these characteristics could be called characteristics of decomp.

JA: nothing else

jmfstl
06-04-2011, 09:38 AM
JB has objected twice now and both have been over ruled.

Agatha_C
06-04-2011, 09:38 AM
CFNews13Casey Casey Anthony News13
Some jurors look a bit confused. There's a lot to just one little hair.

outlandishone
06-04-2011, 09:38 AM
Boy I wanna be her when I grow up!