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beach
06-05-2011, 10:00 AM
PLEASE review this forum thoroughly before posting today:



:tos: Here they are!



PLEASE avoid posts that are:

- bashing the defendant's looks or grooming, in words or through visual images

- using derogatory or demeaning terms to refer to players in this case

- snarky to fellow WSers

- otherwise sending the thread off-topic.

Posters who continue to ignore the TOS or the Rules of Etiquette will find themselves on a Time Out.

If you come across a post that violates TOS or the Rules of Etiquette, or that is clearly taking the thread off-topic, the appropriate response is to hit the red triangle "Alert" button, leave a message for our mods, and move on. Please do not quote the offending post or comment upon it in any way. The mods are equipped with brooms and light sabers and will do everything in their power to make sure that WS continues to be the premier true-crime forum on the Web.

Thank you to the many posters who have helped the mods by alerting on questionable posts these last days.

beach
06-05-2011, 10:04 PM
I'm going to try to clarify a few things so hopefully we are a little clearer about what is okay to post in this thread and what is to be saved for Sidebar. Hope this helps. :)

Re: posting Tweets - Previously we have requested that all tweets be restricted from this thread and posted in the Twitter thread. Posting single tweets from anyone inside the courroom that can shed light on what we are unable to see via our monitors are fine to post here. (note: repetitive, multiple posts of the same tweet will be removed at mod discretion so they do not clog up the thread.) Most all of these will be from MSM reporters - I really can't think of any exceptions off of the top of my head. If they can tell us how jurors are reacting, that is huge, relevant info and we need to see it here. I ask that those of you who do post tweets still include them in the Twitter thread because we have many members who log in for a quick update and depend solely on that thread.


Re: posting about the demeanor of the defendant or witnesses -
This is the deal:
It is perfectly fine to post FACTS & OBSERVATIONS about their demeanor. (e.g., Casey is emotionless; Casey is giggling while listening to this testimony, etc...)

It is the "Casey's blouse is so low cut she must be trying to get the attention of Juror #11, the George Clooney look-a-like"; "eyebrows and hair" ('nuff said :aktion1:). Bottom line, if it doesn't add anything to understanding what is going on during TRIAL, then save these comments and post them in the Sidebar. Express those sentiments there. (Remember! TOS and Rules of Etiquette still apply in Sidebar: no namecalling, bashing and derogatory remarks simply intended to be snarky.)


Okay, I hope that helps clarify a few things.

Linda7NJ
06-06-2011, 01:30 PM
what is Casey doing under the table?

QueenD
06-06-2011, 01:30 PM
ICA in courtroom now, looks to be studing something.

anb
06-06-2011, 01:31 PM
Before lunch people were commenting on Casey's (lack of) emotion. IMO, Casey is completely checked out of this entire trial. She has a complete "whatever" attitude about it because she is not worried in the least about her verdict. I fully believe that she thinks "I am going to appeal a guilty verdict anyway so I don't care". If so, she may show a little more concern in an appeal. She is so used to not being held accountable for her actions, and she is so sure that she will get another chance as she always has. She really just does.not.care.

pjmale
06-06-2011, 01:31 PM
ICA very busy with what appears to be a computer on her lap.
Why is this allowed?

BigFatMommyDog
06-06-2011, 01:32 PM
HHJP in the house

mombomb
06-06-2011, 01:32 PM
HHBP says housekeeping matter. Printing something out for state and defense.

nursebeeme
06-06-2011, 01:32 PM
judge is printing something out to give to both sides ((housekeeping issue))

eta: movies to be added to movie list

Insomnia Momma
06-06-2011, 01:32 PM
Another housekeeping matter to address first



*

eaglemom
06-06-2011, 01:32 PM
housekeeping matter - movies for jury -

Bittiness39
06-06-2011, 01:32 PM
I hope that the dog peeps are next. Then the Home Depot videos. For someone who has shown little inclination for working or buying anything other than bras, food, nightware, shoes, etc...what in the world would ICA be doing buying things four times (two of which were before Caylee died) at Home Depot? My mind is spinning on its axis right now. Smoking gun? LittleBitty can only hope.

EGirl
06-06-2011, 01:33 PM
Why didn't ICA stand up when Judge Perry came in??

ynotdivein
06-06-2011, 01:33 PM
I'm going to try to clarify a few things so hopefully we are a little clearer about what is okay to post in this thread and what is to be saved for Sidebar. Hope this helps. :)

Re: posting Tweets - Previously we have requested that all tweets be restricted from this thread and posted in the Twitter thread. Posting single tweets from anyone inside the courroom that can shed light on what we are unable to see via our monitors are fine to post here. (note: repetitive, multiple posts of the same tweet will be removed at mod discretion so they do not clog up the thread.) Most all of these will be from MSM reporters - I really can't think of any exceptions off of the top of my head. If they can tell us how jurors are reacting, that is huge, relevant info and we need to see it here. I ask that those of you who do post tweets still include them in the Twitter thread because we have many members who log in for a quick update and depend solely on that thread.


Re: posting about the demeanor of the defendant or witnesses -
This is the deal:
It is perfectly fine to post FACTS & OBSERVATIONS about their demeanor. (e.g., Casey is emotionless; Casey is giggling while listening to this testimony, etc...)

It is the "Casey's blouse is so low cut she must be trying to get the attention of Juror #11, the George Clooney look-a-like"; "eyebrows and hair" ('nuff said :aktion1:). Bottom line, if it doesn't add anything to understanding what is going on during TRIAL, then save these comments and post them in the Sidebar. Express those sentiments there. (Remember! TOS and Rules of Etiquette still apply in Sidebar: no namecalling, bashing and derogatory remarks simply intended to be snarky.)


Okay, I hope that helps clarify a few things.

Bumping and bolding. We may be in for a rough ride this afternoon, peeps. PLEASE do your absolute best to self-screen your comments! Your mods' fingers thank you in advance.

TexasDoll
06-06-2011, 01:33 PM
ICA was reviewing some documents just before HHBP walked in.

mombomb
06-06-2011, 01:33 PM
Dr. Vass coming back to the stand. Jury coming back in.

Mamabear1963
06-06-2011, 01:33 PM
Housekeeping matter, HHJP printing off a list of materials for the jury.

Tulessa
06-06-2011, 01:34 PM
Links in my siggy. Also a Casey Cam. :)

pjmale
06-06-2011, 01:34 PM
ICA got a chuckle out of the jury request of the movie "Dirty Love".

realdeal
06-06-2011, 01:34 PM
ICA very busy with what appears to be a computer on her lap.
Why is this allowed?

That's what I want to know. Why is so much leeway given this inmate.
I didn't watch the SP trial, but seem to remember him in cuffs and orange jumpsuit. Was that during trial or sentencing phase?

Tiki
06-06-2011, 01:35 PM
oh man - that was so obvious.
ICA laughing with DS
As the jury entered her face changed completely!!

.

PassTheMotrin
06-06-2011, 01:35 PM
Now comes the analysis of the paper towels....

Quiche
06-06-2011, 01:35 PM
Papertowels and napkins analysis.

Bittiness39
06-06-2011, 01:36 PM
If JA asks Dr. Vass as to the chemical compounds that make up chloroform then I can only surmise where the Home Depot videos make an appearance. WOW! I love Dr. Vass. He is so happy to do what he does. Inventors have to be passionate...otherwise, no inventions. JMO.

eaglemom
06-06-2011, 01:36 PM
Dr. Vass giving info on results of paper towels - adipocere composition - from GCMS results

ami
06-06-2011, 01:36 PM
We're on to adipocere, or grave wax. Byproduct of the breakdown of fat.

Blue Ridge
06-06-2011, 01:36 PM
Adicopere. Grave Wax. Byproduct of breakdown of Fat. Associated w/ Decomposition.

nursebeeme
06-06-2011, 01:37 PM
please keep posts centered on what is going on in the courtroom :-) thanks everyone for all your support in doing this

ami
06-06-2011, 01:37 PM
We're on to adipocere, or grave wax. Byproduct of the breakdown of fat.

(on paper towels)

Aedrys
06-06-2011, 01:37 PM
what is Casey doing under the table?

The way you asked this, I really really REALLY don't want to know. LOL.

westsidefox64
06-06-2011, 01:37 PM
doany of the feeds have closed caption?

cityslick
06-06-2011, 01:37 PM
For the newbies, where were these paper towels found?

Jetaime
06-06-2011, 01:38 PM
#caseyanthonytrial several jurors noting the finding of adipocere or "grave wax" on paper towels recovered from bag that had been in trunk.
by bobkealing

Scamperoo
06-06-2011, 01:38 PM
For the newbies, where were these paper towels found?

In her trunk.

newsjunkie
06-06-2011, 01:38 PM
The way you asked this, I really really REALLY don't want to know. LOL.

She had a rather large group of papers she was "studiously" looking at/through.

katydid23
06-06-2011, 01:38 PM
I think the nurses and the educators are following this testimony and will help explain things during the deliberations if necessary. I think Vass is coming across very well and very likable, even if some of it is too scientific to fully comprehend.

I think it was smart to save Ashton for this witness so the jury sees him as new and untainted. I think it is keeping their attention because they are both animated and enthusiastic even though they are discussing chemical compounds. imoo

KenoshaKid
06-06-2011, 01:38 PM
For the newbies, where were these paper towels found?

in the garbage bag that was in KC's trunk.

epiphany
06-06-2011, 01:39 PM
None of t compounds under discussion were found in t trash.
None of t compounds under discussion were found in t garage area itself.

Aedrys
06-06-2011, 01:39 PM
In her trunk.

I think they were in a garbage bag in her trunk, to clarify.

Emeralgem
06-06-2011, 01:39 PM
For the newbies, where were these paper towels found?

With the trash in a garbage bag in her car

ami
06-06-2011, 01:39 PM
Every odor is comprised of a number of chemicals. It's the concentration and combination of those fragrances/odors that is unique.

However the chemicals themselves are not unique in nature, so there may be overlap in the chemicals that make up different odors.

[Vass testimony]

sleutherontheside
06-06-2011, 01:40 PM
Dr. Vass is "pre-thwarting" the banana / pizza theory.

Mountain_Kat
06-06-2011, 01:40 PM
"odor signature"

Got it. Thanks, Doc.

nursebeeme
06-06-2011, 01:40 PM
Dr. V doing a great job on explaining odor signature.

eta:
a rose has a, b, c, d compounds
a decomposing body has q, r, s, t, u, v compounds...

some may mix in the same area but they have a unique signature

epiphany
06-06-2011, 01:41 PM
41 of t 51 compounds were related to human decomposition (w/some overlap).

Tipstaff
06-06-2011, 01:41 PM
Before lunch people were commenting on Casey's (lack of) emotion. IMO, Casey is completely checked out of this entire trial. She has a complete "whatever" attitude about it because she is not worried in the least about her verdict. I fully believe that she thinks "I am going to appeal a guilty verdict anyway so I don't care". If so, she may show a little more concern in an appeal. She is so used to not being held accountable for her actions, and she is so sure that she will get another chance as she always has. She really just does.not.care.

Doesn't seem like the last 3 years in jail have been a problem for ICA at all. So maybe you have hit the nail on the head here. Maybe she accepts a guilty verdict is likely. And as a Florida taxpayer ICA will double dip into the coffers of taxpayers for her appeal.

suzihawk
06-06-2011, 01:41 PM
doany of the feeds have closed caption?

I keep my TV on mute with closed caption so I can read along. While I'm watching the live stream at the same time. :)

momtective
06-06-2011, 01:41 PM
41 of 51 compounds found in the trunk were consistent with decomposition.

ynotdivein
06-06-2011, 01:41 PM
We looked at a variety of squirrel remnants!

Wham! Another door slams shut.

logicalgirl
06-06-2011, 01:42 PM
Squirrel remnants! LOL

sleutherontheside
06-06-2011, 01:42 PM
LKB said JB would be attacking the controls.

Kenziema
06-06-2011, 01:42 PM
In my VERY un-scientifically educated (lol) opinion, it is clear that there was definitely a decomposing body in her trunk.

BigFatMommyDog
06-06-2011, 01:42 PM
decomposing pizza and squirrel remnants ... LOL

Aedrys
06-06-2011, 01:42 PM
I am loving the attention paid to squirrel parts and remains in this case. ROFL!

flourish
06-06-2011, 01:42 PM
I haven't been watching live until now, b/c I've either been at work or asleep in my West Coast bed :) I've been watching the wftv raw video, but it doesn't show all the courtroom angles I can see live.

It's also nice to be here at WS live!

I feel bad for JA, as he sounds like his throat is so scratchy and tickly and miserable! I want to have someone near him, like a boxing coach, to squirt throat spray and water down his throat every few minutes. Poor guy!

I've been excited about Dr. Vass since the Frye hearings. It's so nice to see him again. He's so obviously smart and it's neat to see history in the making! Yay Dr. Vass! :loveyou: :loveyou: :blowkiss:

GiantPickle
06-06-2011, 01:43 PM
um did he just say squirrel remnants?!?!?

mikeysmommom
06-06-2011, 01:43 PM
Chilling when ICA stares into the camera!!!!

ami
06-06-2011, 01:43 PM
41 chemicals in human decomposition.

There is some overlap between the decomp chemicals and gasoline. They eliminated those overlapping chemicals - 24 left.

They also used pizza! squirrel! and 'car trunk' chemicals and eliminated any overlapping chemicals they shared with KC"s trunk.

16 compounds left.

7 compounds found in the trunk of the car are considered "significant" to human decomposition and do not overlap with the chemicals found in gasoline, or any of the other controls.

Bittiness39
06-06-2011, 01:43 PM
Dr. Vass: If you leave here today and walk down the street you will encounter many odors...each of those odors is comprised of dozens of chemicals. A rose may have 12 chemcials that make up that fragrance. Trash may have 20 chemicals that make up that odor. There could be cross odorization (Little Bitty made this word up) between the rose and the trash. in the car sample there were 51 individual compounds. 41 of those were related to decomp. Some of the others were related to gasoline (think gas cans peeps). So they elimated those compounds. And then they elimated other chemicals from their CONTROL sample. They looked at the trash, garage air, stuff that would have been in the car already. That left 16 compunds. of those 16, 7 of those are significant. of the huge number of compounds...on a list, they paired it down to 30 (when it comes to a human being)...gasoline in the trunk confused stuff. Just because gasoline overlapped with the decomp doesn't mean that the decomp compounds are not there.

eaglemom
06-06-2011, 01:44 PM
Dr. Vass now talking about decision tree used to take 500 to 30 for article
In this case there were 16 out of the 30 in the car and out of those 16 - 7 were unique to decomposition

ami
06-06-2011, 01:44 PM
um did he just say squirrel remnants?!?!?

YES! They eliminated "squirrel" as a potential source of the odor.

logicalgirl
06-06-2011, 01:44 PM
Overruled #1 for the afternoon I believe.

epiphany
06-06-2011, 01:44 PM
compounds which overlap, could b from decomposition or could be from a different source, therefore we had to eliminate some of t compounds

mydailyopinions
06-06-2011, 01:44 PM
LKB said JB would be attacking the controls.

I personally don't see how Baez will be able to attack this man's intelligence. LKB should have stayed on board this case.

nursebeeme
06-06-2011, 01:44 PM
oh my.... the compounds came from different stages of decomp.

TexasLori
06-06-2011, 01:45 PM
Dr. Vass is very interesting. I do not easily understand science, nor am I interested in it a bit. He is making it perfectly understandable to me and also interesting. Thank you Dr. Vass!

mck16
06-06-2011, 01:45 PM
Doesn't seem like the last 3 years in jail have been a problem for ICA at all. So maybe you have hit the nail on the head here. Maybe she accepts a guilty verdict is likely. And as a Florida taxpayer ICA will double dip into the coffers of taxpayers for her appeal.

I agree with both posts and actually posted the same in the morning thread. I also think she is bored because she and she alone already knows of all this. After all she was there and she has first hand knowledge as to what happened. jmo

ami
06-06-2011, 01:45 PM
Decomposition is cyclic. Bacteria, etc., degrade things at different rates. Early decomp is different (has diff compounds) than later decomposition. Therefore highly unlikely at any single point in time to find ALL the chemicals found in human decomp.

Mountain_Kat
06-06-2011, 01:45 PM
Chemicals vary from early decomp and later decomp stages. Later decomp stages does not contain all the compounds found in various stages.

Check.

kantoo
06-06-2011, 01:45 PM
compounds which overlap, could b from decomposition or could be from a different source, therefore we had to eliminate some of t compounds

I loved how he pointed out "to be fair" we had to eliminate some

Eidetic
06-06-2011, 01:45 PM
http://i55.tinypic.com/15i7ngl.jpg

uklaw
06-06-2011, 01:45 PM
Overruled #1 for the afternoon I believe.

It was a leading question (I don't know the grounds of the objection though).

I have just switched on to this. Are the jury even following this? The prosecution is lucky that they have 3 medical/nursing professionals on the Jury. Seems highly technical, especially for someone who would not be scientifically minded.

Bittiness39
06-06-2011, 01:46 PM
So my question is: Is Dr. Vass calling ICA an amateur because she "attempted" to mask the smell of death with the gas cans in the trunk? Wow...jmo...

Jetaime
06-06-2011, 01:46 PM
"What are you looking at?"

http://i55.tinypic.com/idf7mp.jpg

Aedrys
06-06-2011, 01:46 PM
oh my.... the compounds came from different stages of decomp.

Oh...God...

Well there goes the body being moved around and hidden! I am just sick...

ami
06-06-2011, 01:46 PM
Vass considers the odor from carpet consistent with human decomposition.

nursebeeme
06-06-2011, 01:46 PM
odor from the carpet is consistent with human decomp

Hamsterdance
06-06-2011, 01:46 PM
"I consider it consistent with human decomposition" Vass

Amster
06-06-2011, 01:46 PM
The jury is mesmerized. On the edge of their seats. Taking notes.

momshrink
06-06-2011, 01:47 PM
Chilling when ICA stares into the camera!!!!

I think she expects a mistrial. I think she is marking time. I wonder if the DT has told her that a mistrial does not mean she walks free.

Celt1997
06-06-2011, 01:47 PM
Do we know if the DT is still disputing the fact that there was a body in the trunk? I'm just wondering if all of Dr. Vass' testimony doesn't matter because the DT is going to say, "Yes, she died on the 16th, and as part of the lies and cover up for the accident, at one point ICA & GA had the body in the trunk."

nursebeeme
06-06-2011, 01:47 PM
all the inorganic compounds found were elevated like in human decomp

ami
06-06-2011, 01:47 PM
All of the inorganic compounds that you would expect to find elevated in human decomp were found elevated in the ICA car samples.

ynotdivein
06-06-2011, 01:48 PM
#caseyanthonytrial Juror six making note of Vass opinion source of odor was human decomposition
by bobkealing via twitter at 1:47 PM

uklaw
06-06-2011, 01:48 PM
YES! They eliminated "squirrel" as a potential source of the odor.

Seriously? Would love to see that. Amazing that they can diffentiate the decompositional odour between two different mammals.

What was the basis that he said he differentiated between the two?

Mountain_Kat
06-06-2011, 01:48 PM
Buteric acid a product of early human decomp, but not common in environment outide of human decomp.

Check.

suzihawk
06-06-2011, 01:48 PM
It was a leading question (I don't know the grounds of the objection though).

I have just switched on to this. Are the jury even following this? The prosecution is lucky that they have 3 medical/nursing professionals on the Jury. Seems highly technical, especially for someone who would not be scientifically minded.

I'm certainly not technically or scientifically minded - far from it - and I'm getting it, for the most part. Dr. Vass has a way of explaining difficult concepts even to the lay person, IMO.

whiteangora
06-06-2011, 01:48 PM
It was a leading question (I don't know the grounds of the objection though).

I have just switched on to this. Are the jury even following this? The prosecution is lucky that they have 3 medical/nursing professionals on the Jury. Seems highly technical, especially for someone who would not be scientifically minded.

Dr Vass has the ability to transfer his vast knowledge to the jury in laymen's terms, I'm sure the jurors love him. He is not only a genius but he has an infectious and endearing personality.

ami
06-06-2011, 01:49 PM
Butyric acid - you don't see a lot of this in environmental samples. It is an EARLY decomposition compound. Found in the spare tire well cover scrapings.

[sleuths - this is great for the time line]

BigFatMommyDog
06-06-2011, 01:49 PM
as SOTS said Vass doing a great job on pre-thwartation, but I think JA is doing a fabulous job posing his question to facilitate this.

TexasDoll
06-06-2011, 01:49 PM
What drove Det. Melich to seek Dr. Vass?

nursebeeme
06-06-2011, 01:49 PM
found every single one of the fatty acids in the paper towel that are associated with adipocere

Patience
06-06-2011, 01:49 PM
Oh...God...

Well there goes the body being moved around and hidden! I am just sick...

Or did all 4 four stages of decomp happen in the trunk?

Amster
06-06-2011, 01:49 PM
Animal decomp has a different odor than human decomp. Animal decomp is muskier.

ami
06-06-2011, 01:49 PM
Is there anything about the adipocere found that would restrict it to human decomposition?

Vass: not really, no.

logicalgirl
06-06-2011, 01:50 PM
It was a leading question (I don't know the grounds of the objection though).

I have just switched on to this. Are the jury even following this? The prosecution is lucky that they have 3 medical/nursing professionals on the Jury. Seems highly technical, especially for someone who would not be scientifically minded.

Dr. Vass is very personable and dummies down his testimony so the average scientific layperson like myself can easily understand it, so yes, the jury is following and some are taking notes.

The morning was difficult because Baez objected continually, until HHJP called two sidebars and finally gave the lawyers (read Baez) some homework to do at lunch to read up.

Mountain_Kat
06-06-2011, 01:50 PM
JA is on fire today, and sharp as a tack.

ami
06-06-2011, 01:50 PM
Seriously? Would love to see that. Amazing that they can diffentiate the decompositional odour between two different mammals.

What was the basis that he said he differentiated between the two?

The chemicals they emit as an odor.

katydid23
06-06-2011, 01:50 PM
HLN: ' jurors are taking notes during this testimony'

mombomb
06-06-2011, 01:50 PM
Continued direct examination of Dr. Arpad Vass by JA.

Left off at Exhibit 126 - paper towels sent to him. Chemical extraction in methynol of the stained and unstained sections and ran it through the GCMS. The instrumental analysis revealed a number of fatty acids present on the towels. These fatty acids make up adoposere (sp) or grave wax - the byproduct of the breakdown of fat and is associated with decomp.

He also analyzed the carbon filter traps to confirm that the carpet sample was the point source of the odor. They also did an air sample of the garbage that had been reported to have been in the trunk. They confirmed that the carpet WAS the point source of the odor. It was a combination of chemical compounds. They also looked at the other parts of the car, the garage, etc. The same group of compounds in the carpet was not found in the trash or the garage air.

Rose has one set of chemicals, trash has another set. The total combination of the source is what makes it unique. In the car trunk sample there were 51 different compounds. 41 were related to human decomp. Of those 41, there was overlap with gasoline. They did not know if the gas odors came from gas or decomp, so they eliminated those, leaving 24 compounds. They then began looking at control samples and eliminating compounds found in the control car, squirrel, pizza, garage. This left approximately 16 compounds. 7 of these are considered significant - meaning in the 2008 paper there are 30 compounds considered relevant to decomp. Of the 500 found, they paired it down to 30 - looking at the longevity of the compound, normally found in environment, how unusual.

In the trunk of the car, they found essentially 13 of the 30 - eliminating some due to the gas, left 7.

The gas compounds were eliminated because they did not know whether the source was from gas in the trunk or decomp.

Objection by JB - overruled.

30 compounds - as in 2008 paper - come from different stages of decomp - what they consider the most relevant compounds either in early or late. Decomposition is cyclic due to different degradation rates of elements. It is highly unlikely that at any one point in decomp you would find all 30 compounds.

7 compounds left - these were found to be in the list of 30 compounds that they found to be most relevant to human decomposition.

He does not think there is a specific chemical odor signature for human decomp.

He considers the odor in the car consistent with human decomp.

Regarding scraping from tire well, the acetic acid is a product of decomp - just not one of the 30. It is also found in many things - vinegar.

Regarding spare tire cover - all the inorganic compounds of decomp were indeed elevated, but these elements can be found in other things.

Regarding carpet extraction - beuteric acid is not normally seen in environmental samples, but very consisent in decomp. It is usually metabolized by micro organisms and therefore not normally seen in the environmental samples.

Taking all of the instrumental examinations and adding to that his olfactory observation of the carpet smell, it is his opinion that there was a decomposing body in the trunk of the car at some point. He can find NO OTHER PLAUSIBLE EXPLANATION.

End of direct exam.

ynotdivein
06-06-2011, 01:50 PM
I can find no other plausible explanation other than that (there was a human body decomposing in the trunk) to explain our findings.

MissDiva
06-06-2011, 01:50 PM
Dr. Vass can find no other plausible explanation other than there was a decomposing human body in the trunk of the car.

JB's cross is up now.

uklaw
06-06-2011, 01:50 PM
I'm certainly not technically or scientifically minded - far from it - and I'm getting it, for the most part. Dr. Vass has a way of explaining difficult concepts even to the lay person, IMO.

True. But a lot of it is highly technical so hard to break down. Remember the women the prosecution wanted to get off.

Oh no Jose's up!

Miss Anarchy
06-06-2011, 01:50 PM
What drove Det. Melich to seek Dr. Vass?

My understanding is that Dr. Vass is widely considered an expert in the field and at Oak Ridge Research Labs (Body Farm). When you have something at this level that needs to be explained, you go to the best.

Rallihanna
06-06-2011, 01:50 PM
No other plausible explanation than there was a decomposing human body in the trunk...

BigFatMommyDog
06-06-2011, 01:50 PM
Seriously? Would love to see that. Amazing that they can diffentiate the decompositional odour between two different mammals.

What was the basis that he said he differentiated between the two?

lots of threads on that - maybe someone can help me find them - the reports "spread sheet" the compounds and whether or not they are found in various mammalian decompositional events

wenwe4
06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
JA w/Dr. Vass - afternoon session

chemical extraction of methanol ...reason insect pupae ....

instrument revealed number of fatty acids; palmetic, oleic, steric....etc. composition make of up adipocere or grave wax....breakdown of fat....associated with decomp...receiving 8 triple sorbent traps (tst) from OCSO - want to confirm carpet sample was point source of the odor....also contained tst on garbage from the trunk...examine tst confirm carpet point source of odor - combination of chemical components present....looked @ trash, interior of car, garage air ....hi abudance in carpet sample....none in trash or garage air in those concentrations.

when encounter odor - flowers/trash etc... concentration of chemicals that make each odor unique....going to be unique cross reactivity - rose may have 12 chemicals and trash has another 20 chemicals...may have same chemicals in rose and trash but interraction between the chemicals ....10 comounds in rose 2 are found in the trash .... each chemical gives odor signature....51 compounds 41 human decom of those 41 overlap w/gasoline....ie; benzine..... eliminate all gasoline components to eliminate confusion....control samples eliminated.....eliminate decompose pizza/squirrel remnants/garage air left approx. 16 compounds 7 are significant....in 2008 paper published list 30 compounds relavant and significant to human decomp.......500 compounds w/decomp narowed down to 30....narrowed how unusual, chemical class, environ. factors..... eliminate 13 overlap with gas, left 7, in back car one expects to se gas in car (object-overrule0

decesion tree of 08 paper.....most relevant compounds differentiate anareobic compounds, early decomp or late decomp compounds - decomp is cyclic ....bacteria degrades @ different rates...early decomp and late and anaerobic and aerobic.

7 compounds left out of 30 relevant out of the 500 compounds of decomp

based upon odor - opinion? consistent w/decomp....acedic acid product of decomp....not unusual it's in vinegar....spare tire cover consistent w/decomp...inorganic compounds elevated

carpet of spare tire cover extraction....butyeric acid....consistent w/decomp..don't see a lot of enviornmental control samples ....very early decomp event....usually metabolized by ......don't see it often in

adipocere - breakdown of adipose tissue -fat - every one of fatty acids identified on paper towels....not just human....sodium is higher is reported in literature is more human like vs. pigs.......

adding to ofactory observation....opinion whether decomoposing human body in the trunk of that car...do have an opinion- No Other Plausible explanation to explain what we found!

Cross

logicalgirl
06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
What drove Det. Melich to seek Dr. Vass?

the odour of human decomp in the trunk?

Insomnia Momma
06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
<------ this momma is sitting on her hands during cross



:blowkiss:

epiphany
06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
Vass: no other plausible explanation other than was a decomposing body in trunk to explain what we found (paraphrased)

nursebeeme
06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
cross examination.....
:tos::tos::tos::tos:

cindybman
06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
Doesn't seem like the last 3 years in jail have been a problem for ICA at all. So maybe you have hit the nail on the head here. Maybe she accepts a guilty verdict is likely. And as a Florida taxpayer ICA will double dip into the coffers of taxpayers for her appeal.

I truly believe that ICA believes she will be found not guilty. ICA is a narcissist to the Nth degree and I think she sees no other verdict. I almost wonder if she thinks that the experts for the prosecution are liars or... ugh, I can't express my thoughts! (Sometimes my brains has lots of thoughts, but I can't find the vocabulary to express them!)

Like she thinks that alllll these witnesses and experts, etc, are just jumping on a "Convict Casey" bandwagon and that they are exaggerating and fabricating to make for a good witness. Do you know what I mean? *We* know the witness are viable and "good"... but I don't think she sees that.

I hope these thoughts pertain to this thread, thus to the trial today. If not and I broke the forum rules, I apologize. Please just let me know.

Cindy B in ATL

mikeysmommom
06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
She seems bored......like she is thinking I thought this was gonna be about me ME ME,but it is all about Caylee!!!Nobody is talking about me ME ME!!!

sleutherontheside
06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
No other plausible explanation.

Mountain_Kat
06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
Butyric acid - you don't see a lot of this in environmental samples. It is an EARLY decomposition compound. Found in the spare tire well cover scrapings.

[sleuths - this is great for the time line]

Did they say if this was found on the inside of the tire cover, or the outside?

Tipstaff
06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
Oh God give each and everyone of us strength to get through JB's cross, please let no harm come to our computers, TV's, phones, and each other.

Linda7NJ
06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
Oh Geeez...Jose up

kantoo
06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
Seriously? Would love to see that. Amazing that they can diffentiate the decompositional odour between two different mammals.

What was the basis that he said he differentiated between the two?

this morning he said something like "for instance a decomposing pig will smell sweet, where as undomesticated animals will smell......"(something different, i don't remember what term he used)

uklaw
06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
I can find no other plausible explanation other than that (there was a human body decomposing in the trunk) to explain our findings.

Good comment to finish up on.

MissDiva
06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
JB has now established that Dr. Vass isn't a chemist, in addition to the morning session where he established several times that Dr. Vass isn't a physicist.

I wonder if he's going to ask next if he's a mechanic.

ami
06-06-2011, 01:51 PM
Sorry, there is no WAY the jury is going to believe that this man is not an expert or well versed in human decomposition. i don't care what JB says at this point.

Hamsterdance
06-06-2011, 01:52 PM
"Do you have an opinion on this?" JA

"I can find no other plausible explanation to explain all of the results we found" (human decomposition in samples, Vass)

epiphany
06-06-2011, 01:52 PM
PhD is in Anthropology

the seeker
06-06-2011, 01:52 PM
jb is up...this will be interesting..

kantoo
06-06-2011, 01:52 PM
cross examination.....
:tos::tos::tos::tos:

:banghead:

BigFatMommyDog
06-06-2011, 01:52 PM
JB cannot attack the science so he's attacking the man. Typical

katydid23
06-06-2011, 01:53 PM
Baex attacking Vass's curriculum vitae again. OOPs, Baez used an old copy, what a surprise.

Baez just makes himself look dumb trying to attack this mans credentials.

Scamperoo
06-06-2011, 01:53 PM
Seriously? Would love to see that. Amazing that they can diffentiate the decompositional odour between two different mammals.

What was the basis that he said he differentiated between the two?

He is a world renowned expert and he is published, you should research him a little.

Eidetic
06-06-2011, 01:53 PM
Casey just did her stressed out "ouch" face.

Aedrys
06-06-2011, 01:53 PM
No other plausible explanation.

Hear that JB? NO BANANA!

ami
06-06-2011, 01:53 PM
Did they say if this was found on the inside of the tire cover, or the outside?

I didn't catch that part, sorry!

Anyone?

Mountain_Kat
06-06-2011, 01:53 PM
Pssst...JB, I sometimes say that I am a housewife. Doesn't mean that's ALL I am.

Jetaime
06-06-2011, 01:53 PM
Jurors have been taking notes and appear to be following along with Dr. Vass. #CaseyAnthony -fell

Bittiness39
06-06-2011, 01:53 PM
I can find no other plausible explanation other than that (there was a human body decomposing in the trunk) to explain our findings.

Me either. Or me neither. Or yes, Little Bitty emphatically agrees. :rocker:

BetteDavisEyes
06-06-2011, 01:54 PM
Calls Vass by the wrong name. Good one, JB.

MyTinkieGirl
06-06-2011, 01:54 PM
Dr. Vass: If you leave here today and walk down the street you will encounter many odors...each of those odors is comprised of dozens of chemicals. A rose may have 12 chemcials that make up that fragrance. Trash may have 20 chemicals that make up that odor. There could be cross odorization (Little Bitty made this word up) between the rose and the trash. in the car sample there were 51 individual compounds. 41 of those were related to decomp. Some of the others were related to gasoline (think gas cans peeps). So they elimated those compounds. And then they elimated other chemicals from their CONTROL sample. They looked at the trash, garage air, stuff that would have been in the car already. That left 16 compunds. of those 16, 7 of those are significant. of the huge number of compounds...on a list, they paired it down to 30 (when it comes to a human being)...gasoline in the trunk confused stuff. Just because gasoline overlapped with the decomp doesn't mean that the decomp compounds are not there.

Thanks for this post....have sound muted...can't take JB and his BS.

I am BEYOND happy Dr. V explained it this way....it's how I hoped he would...it's the way I always gave an analogy when I had to do seminars on flavors.....not decomp, though.

ami
06-06-2011, 01:54 PM
Seriously? Squirrel and human's give off a different chemical odour? What would you know.

Side note: I am not sure if the jury are going to like this cross-examination of Vaas.

Sorry - I meant as they decomposed!

tiredofthis
06-06-2011, 01:54 PM
JB asking the witness if he ever called himself a chemist.

sleutherontheside
06-06-2011, 01:54 PM
Dr. Vass did an excellent job at making sure to identify the co-authors as "Dr."...as JB didn't.

Nice that JB screwed up and referreed to Dr. Vass in third person.

Mountain_Kat
06-06-2011, 01:54 PM
Vass: I've never posted a facebook post, period.

:floorlaugh:

Softail
06-06-2011, 01:54 PM
JB bringing up Facebook and Wikipedia! :waitasec:

Eidetic
06-06-2011, 01:55 PM
Boom. Dr. Vass never posted any Facebook account. Never submitted a thing to Wikipedia.

logicalgirl
06-06-2011, 01:55 PM
No Facebook, no Wikipedia...

MissDiva
06-06-2011, 01:55 PM
JA sounds pizzed, and rightfully so.

jane the dood
06-06-2011, 01:55 PM
this morning he said something like "for instance a decomposing pig will smell sweet, where as undomesticated animals will smell......"(something different, i don't remember what term he used)

I believe he used the term "muskier"...and pigs have a "sweeter" smell. Relatively speaking, of course, considering it's decomposition!

nursebeeme
06-06-2011, 01:55 PM
just an aside: anyone can start a wikipedia page

ami
06-06-2011, 01:55 PM
Heh, I'm loving this. Vass doesn't have facebook account, nor did he write anything for his profile on Wikipedia.

GiantPickle
06-06-2011, 01:55 PM
i am going to wet my pants....wikipedia and facebook?!?!?!

BigFatMommyDog
06-06-2011, 01:55 PM
too lame for words

dog.gone.cute
06-06-2011, 01:55 PM
Dr. Vass is EXTREMELY QUALIFIED, and I am certain the Jury sees this ...

So why is JB still questioning Dr. Vass' Degrees and Curriculum Vitae ?

Dr. Vass is BRILLIANT -- Jose -- he LOVES what he does and that is very apparent in his testimony ...

It's getting real old watching JB "attacking" witnesses, especially Dr. Vass
:maddening:

sleutherontheside
06-06-2011, 01:55 PM
JB using Facebook references although Vass has never posted on Facebook.

tiredofthis
06-06-2011, 01:55 PM
JB asked the witness if he had a financial interest in the case.

Whimsigal
06-06-2011, 01:55 PM
Baez bringing up Wikipedia and Facebook accounts referencing Dr. Vass as a "chemist" trying to impeach him. Vass says he's never posted anything to Facebook or Wikipedia.

logicalgirl
06-06-2011, 01:55 PM
<------ this momma is sitting on her hands during cross



:blowkiss:

LG first placed Large Cork in her mouth and then sat on her hands...:innocent:

Jetaime
06-06-2011, 01:55 PM
JBs objections have been mostly overruled. JA's have been sustained so far ;)

Tipstaff
06-06-2011, 01:55 PM
More 'do you not..........are you not'? Never want to hear those forms of questions ever again.

JSR
06-06-2011, 01:56 PM
I love how JB "forgets" to refer to others as a Doctor. Give respect where respect is due Mr. B.

BigFatMommyDog
06-06-2011, 01:56 PM
here comes the $$$$$

TiaM
06-06-2011, 01:56 PM
Oh Jesus - Baez is back to his Facebook and Wikipedia research - those 2 paragons of completely accurate information.

My eyes just rolled out of their sockets.

rosepetal1065
06-06-2011, 01:56 PM
WTH? is JB, what is this dude's issue...okay now he's going to the machine he's making

Eidetic
06-06-2011, 01:56 PM
just an aside: anyone can start a wikipedia page

ETA: anyone can get in there and edit/add on their own opinion.

ynotdivein
06-06-2011, 01:56 PM
I can tell that many of us are sitting our our hands during this cross, and on behalf of the mods, I say :tyou: and keep it up! (Am typing this with one hand because I don't trust myself to unleash both.)

whiteangora
06-06-2011, 01:56 PM
Now I have to sit on my hands.........OMG, Please Baez don't go there!

uklaw
06-06-2011, 01:56 PM
JA sounds pizzed, and rightfully so.

No.

The FB issue was Bizarre (almost humorous).

However, his comment re: Dr. Vaas' institute holding him out as a biochemist when he was not, seemed relevant to me. Goes to credibility if he was complicit in it.

Harmony2
06-06-2011, 01:56 PM
Did they say if this was found on the inside of the tire cover, or the outside?

scrapings of the carpet side of the tire cover.. IIRC

Donjeta
06-06-2011, 01:56 PM
JB hasn't got ANYTHING against his testimony, he has to harp about Facebook and Wikipedia writings that Vass didn't submit.

JSR
06-06-2011, 01:56 PM
just an aside: anyone can start a wikipedia page

Correct. And anyone can edit it.

grandmaj
06-06-2011, 01:57 PM
This will backfire. Jurors do not like having a witness attacked especially when there is no proof that what the Attorney is saying is true.

tiredofthis
06-06-2011, 01:57 PM
just an aside: anyone can start a wikipedia page

Anyone can also change or add information as far as I know...

wvjules
06-06-2011, 01:57 PM
Dr. Vass' wikipage was last updated by someon today. I wonder if JB put the
"is a research chemist scientist, a biochemist and " on his page? lol

redkatrampant
06-06-2011, 01:57 PM
ETA: anyone can get in there and edit/add on their own opinion.

Yeah, but the used to patrol it pretty well.

Whimsigal
06-06-2011, 01:57 PM
Oh mercy. Baez is using a giant flippad. Asking questions about Vass' database and recording his answers there.

okiedokietoo
06-06-2011, 01:57 PM
CROSS
JB: You are not a chemist, not bio chemist
Dr. Vass: no, no
JB: report you issued is labeled a forensic report
Dr. Vass: yes

JB: you were refer to Dr. Weiss for anything to do with Chemistry
-when was the last time you took a course on chemistry
Dr. Vass; 1980's
JB: ever held yourself out as a chemist
Dr. Vass: don't think so
JB: ever posted on Facebook, Wikipedia that you are a bio chemist?
Dr. Vass: no
Dr. Vass: ever authorize anyone from Oak Ridge to post on Facebook or wikipedia?
Objection/sustained

JB: (writing on poster board)

JB:

sleutherontheside
06-06-2011, 01:57 PM
Watch out.....big giant notepad on the ready.

PassTheMotrin
06-06-2011, 01:57 PM
I believe Baez is asking Dr. Vass the same questions he asked of him during the Frye hearings.

Celt1997
06-06-2011, 01:57 PM
just an aside: anyone can start a wikipedia page

Yeah, no one should ever take anything from Wikipedia as fact. FWIW Dr. Vass's wikipedia entry does say "Biochemist." Maybe someone from the DT put it there. :floorlaugh:

Mountain_Kat
06-06-2011, 01:57 PM
Pssst, JB...never ask a question in court that you don't know the answer to.


:floorlaugh:

nursebeeme
06-06-2011, 01:57 PM
I can tell that many of us are sitting our our hands during this cross, and on behalf of the mods, I say :tyou: and keep it up! (Am typing this with one hand because I don't trust myself to unleash both.)

I agree! Thank you most AWESOME websleuth posters!:rocker:

raysgirl1126
06-06-2011, 01:57 PM
More markers!

Dr.Fessel
06-06-2011, 01:57 PM
What is up with the wrinkled paper? LOL

Donjeta
06-06-2011, 01:57 PM
What did that question mean? How many compounds have you developed that discuss this...? I've never heard of compounds discussing.

QB.
06-06-2011, 01:58 PM
Just logged on to view the cross - I knew it would be annoying - first thing I hear is the wikipedia reference and now the financial interest.

suzihawk
06-06-2011, 01:58 PM
"contraptions" :banghead:

Really, REALLY trying to restrain myself.

sleutherontheside
06-06-2011, 01:58 PM
JB's "tone" is going to backfire.

Mendara
06-06-2011, 01:58 PM
Why is JB questioning? It should be DS no?

wenwe4
06-06-2011, 01:58 PM
JB w/Dr. V
not a chemist....can't comment on something you don't know


Bach. biology in administrating justice, masters anthropology, PhD not listed, Dr. V updated w/new curriculum vitae...

2 co-authors - Dr. Martin - physist, Mark Wise - analylical chemist... Dr. V put down research scientist.......

consult w/Dr. Wise.....area expertise chemistry....last time took course in 1980's during clinical ....have you ever held yourself out as chemist? I don't think I have ever have.....FB account lists you...object -

Wikipedia explaination? Never submitted FB account or wikipedia...never auth. anyone from Body Farm list as bio-chemist? Object

Make money on this?
Done over course of career - buried remains - one of them

comprised built data base....use to come to conclusions....peer review publications is what used.....

research develop comprise this data base.....478 of them mention this data base....buried 4 bodies in 2004....set up contraptions discussed....measure what comes out ground from body.


@ the body interface....moving up the soil column.....17 days



some missed....data base not turned over to defense? (object- Sidebar)

okiedokietoo
06-06-2011, 01:58 PM
JA requested Sidebar

whiteangora
06-06-2011, 01:58 PM
Baez calling all of this hi-tech equipment "contraptions".......ok

mombomb
06-06-2011, 01:59 PM
Cross examination of Dr. Arpad Vass by JB.

He is not a chemist, not an analytical chemist, not a bio chemist.

On his cv - b.s. in biology, masters in criminal justice. PhD in anthropology. He stated that was an omission on his prior CV and has updated it since.

His report is a forensic report - co -author Dr. Martin - physicist and Dr. Wise - an analytical chemist. Under his name he put research scientist, not anthropologist. He consults with Dr. Vass because his area of expertise is chemistry. Dr. Vass's last chemistry class would have been in the eighties. He has never allowed people to think he is a chemist.

Has he read a Facebook post saying he is a bio-chemist. He has never posted anything on Facebook. He has never submitted anything to Wiki. He has never authorized Oakridge Lab to hold him out as a chemist.

He does not have a financial interest in this case.

Two papers he relies on comprise and built a database. The peer publication is what he uses to render his opinions. The database was used to present the data in the publications.

The database consists of 478 chemical compounds. They buried 4 bodies (2004 paper), set up instruments to measure what was generated at the body, what was moving up the soil and what was being liberated at the surface of the soil. It took 17 days for the chemicals that are generated at the body to migrate up through the soil column to the surface.

JB asked if the database was turned over to the defense.

Sidebar #4 or 5?

Whimsigal
06-06-2011, 01:59 PM
Baez saying that Vass hasn't turned his database over to the defense. JA asks to approach bench, Judge agrees.

sleutherontheside
06-06-2011, 01:59 PM
Excellent explanation as to the 17 days.

MissDiva
06-06-2011, 01:59 PM
Wasn't it JB who, during jury selection, kept asking potential jurors if they would hold the testimony of "regular" people equal to the testimony of experts?

Dr. Vass is coming across SO knowledgeable that I don't think I'd care if he had a degree in anything as long as he actually knew his stuff.

logicalgirl
06-06-2011, 01:59 PM
I hope Mr. Baez's large flip chart is not blocking the view of ICA from the jury...

cindybman
06-06-2011, 01:59 PM
May I ask a stupid question? I'm following along today -- do I need to refresh my page when I get to the end? Or do the pages refresh by themselves? I'm at the end of Page 6 and I'm not getting any new posts and/or pages added. I don't want to refresh if its going to slow down this forum...

Thank you all!

Cindy B in ATL

Mendara
06-06-2011, 01:59 PM
Does JB even know what any of this means? I think he is just trying to slander Dr. Voss and not really explain anything.

MO

sleutherontheside
06-06-2011, 01:59 PM
JB playing dirty by mentioning database not turned over to defense.

Charleyann
06-06-2011, 01:59 PM
His is voice is hostile....(Baez) His voice grates on my nerves. He acts like he lives in Casey's world. The way she talked to her parents in that jail house visit that she was the victim. It was everyones fault but her own...

She is rubbing on on him !!!! I feel sorry for the prosecution witness. The man has an axe to grind for all the wrong reason....

Charleyann

Aedrys
06-06-2011, 01:59 PM
As an English composition teacher - Vass gets an A for no Facebook and Wikipedia, and Baez gets an F thinking he can possibly taint Vass's reputation with either of those!

uklaw
06-06-2011, 02:00 PM
JB should make more of his objections at the side-bar. Ashton is good at keeping his objections away from the jury and not giving the impression that he is trying to keep information away from the jury.

dog.gone.cute
06-06-2011, 02:00 PM
:eek::eek: Who does the "wrinkled" paper board belong to ? ?

Got to be the DT . . .

MissDiva
06-06-2011, 02:00 PM
No.

The FB issue was Bizarre (almost humorous).

However, his comment re: Dr. Vaas' institute holding him out as a biochemist when he was not, seemed relevant to me. Goes to credibility if he was complicit in it.

No, I mean JA's objection to JB sounded annoyed.

Marina2
06-06-2011, 02:00 PM
JB, you got the database. Why is he bringing this up again?

cityslick
06-06-2011, 02:00 PM
Objection overruled.

epiphany
06-06-2011, 02:00 PM
"contraptions" :banghead:

Really, REALLY trying to restrain myself.

"contraptions" :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

Miss Anarchy
06-06-2011, 02:01 PM
Dr. Vass' wikipage was last updated by someon today. I wonder if JB put the
"is a research chemist scientist, a biochemist and " on his page? lol

I work in a research center at a very large University. Everyone here knows you do not rely on Wikipedia because anyone can edit it at any time, with the exception of a few profiles that are locked.

fifteen89
06-06-2011, 02:01 PM
Calls Vass by the wrong name. Good one, JB.

LOL. Was JB asking a question suggesting that Vass would ask X-person as that person is more of an expert than Vass is.....and it came out as Vass asking Vass??!! Like Vass was the X-person JB was referring to?

ami
06-06-2011, 02:01 PM
No.

The FB issue was Bizarre (almost humorous).

However, his comment re: Dr. Vaas' institute holding him out as a biochemist when he was not, seemed relevant to me. Goes to credibility if he was complicit in it.

A scientist doesn't have one 'name'. Biologists can be chemists, biochemists, geneticists, molecular biologists, anthropologists - one can be all of those things at the same time depending on the work you do each day, regardless of what your degree is in. One can lay claim to any of those titles if you do that type of research.

Mountain_Kat
06-06-2011, 02:01 PM
Oh Lord...please help me to still my tongue.

BigFatMommyDog
06-06-2011, 02:01 PM
May I ask a stupid question? I'm following along today -- do I need to refresh my page when I get to the end? Or do the pages refresh by themselves? I'm at the end of Page 6 and I'm not getting any new posts and/or pages added. I don't want to refresh if its going to slow down this forum...

Thank you all!

Cindy B in ATL

F5 or refresh manually

sleutherontheside
06-06-2011, 02:01 PM
HAHA I thought it was given to you becasue we had a depo the other day about it.

QB.
06-06-2011, 02:01 PM
AV saying he thought defense did receive the database

Jetaime
06-06-2011, 02:02 PM
Oh jeez... here we go with the Labrador......

truthsleuth
06-06-2011, 02:02 PM
Everytime JB does a cross-exam of a recognized expert my nerves jump, I grit my teeth, and I want to scream. Sometimes I groan, loudly. Is this wrong? LOL

Quiche
06-06-2011, 02:02 PM
I think the jurors will understand the need for money to be made from you work.

You're an inventor, right?

Aedrys
06-06-2011, 02:02 PM
"contraptions" :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

Geez JB how old are you? Are we in the 1890's or something? Contraptions? Really?

BetteDavisEyes
06-06-2011, 02:02 PM
Today's testimony is difficult to listen to as I cannot comprehend of a mother moving her dead child's body around to keep it hidden from others. It is beyond dispectful to the remains of a human being. Besides having taken the life from little Caylee, Casey should be charged with desecration of a human body. jmo

Marina2
06-06-2011, 02:02 PM
Given a list of the chemicals, not the database.

ami
06-06-2011, 02:02 PM
Heh. He doesn't HOLD the patent - he's an inventor on it. Different things.

TiaM
06-06-2011, 02:02 PM
Yeah, no one should ever take anything from Wikipedia as fact. FWIW Dr. Vass's wikipedia entry does say "Biochemist." Maybe someone from the DT put it there. :floorlaugh:

You're laughing but.....I'd bet the farm that they did in order to discredit the witness.

Ought to be a law...

uklaw
06-06-2011, 02:03 PM
JB, you got the database. Why is he bringing this up again?

Apparently not. They got a simple list of chemicals. Not the data relating to the chemicals.

redkatrampant
06-06-2011, 02:03 PM
Today's testimony is difficult to listen to as I cannot comprehend of a mother moving her dead child's body around to keep it hidden from others. It is beyond dispectful to the remains of a human being. Besides having taken the life from little Caylee, Casey should be charged with desecration of a human body. jmo

I cannot listen. I am relying on ya'll.

Softail
06-06-2011, 02:03 PM
I love how Dr. Vass is answering JB!

:great:

okiedokietoo
06-06-2011, 02:03 PM
JB: you refused to turn this database over to the defense
Dr. Vass: is not mine to turn over
JB: that has not been turned over to the defense
Dr. Vass: I thought that it was turned over

JB: part of what you do as a research scientist you have to apply for a grant - no grant no money - as part of your job you have to bring in money - you hold patent on device "Labrador"

Amster
06-06-2011, 02:03 PM
You all are stronger than me....backing slowly away from the keyboard.....

Mountain_Kat
06-06-2011, 02:03 PM
Oh noes...Dr. Vass works for a research lab.

Dun dun dun!

:floorlaugh:

little_miss_smart
06-06-2011, 02:04 PM
You know these long drawn out answers are just going to confuse JB and drive him NUTS! :great:

wvjules
06-06-2011, 02:04 PM
I work in a research center at a very large University. Everyone here knows you do not rely on Wikipedia because anyone can edit it at any time, with the exception of a few profiles that are locked.

I am aware of that. That is what I was pointing out...the DT could have done it. I could have done it. Marge Simpson could have done it.

Softail
06-06-2011, 02:04 PM
WOW! JB keeps interrupting Dr. Vass. JA objecting... Sustained! :gavel:

Quiche
06-06-2011, 02:04 PM
Did you understand my question, sir?

I answered your question.

I don't think you did, sir.

epiphany
06-06-2011, 02:04 PM
JB: t goal is to sell t invention (the Labrador) to police departments all across t country?

pcap
06-06-2011, 02:04 PM
I can't take this. I'm unplugging my keyboard. (Seriously)

ami
06-06-2011, 02:04 PM
Heh.

My goal is not to sell these at all. The goal was to create a technological tool that LE can use to find clandestine graves.

UESwifey
06-06-2011, 02:05 PM
Go Dr. Vass!!!

sleutherontheside
06-06-2011, 02:05 PM
Dr. Vass clearly able to distance himself from a direct conflict of interest.

QB.
06-06-2011, 02:05 PM
Its so obvious the good Dr. Vass has a passion for his work and is not motivated by money.
I'm not worried about what the jury may conclude from this line of questioning.

Mountain_Kat
06-06-2011, 02:05 PM
Vass: No, MY goal is not to sell them at all.

:floorlaugh:

(I'm dying over here!!)

Trapshooter
06-06-2011, 02:05 PM
Good heavens! Why is JB harping on the Labrador? :banghead:

Baez doesn't even realize when Dr. Vass has answered his question!

YellowSubmarine
06-06-2011, 02:05 PM
Dr. Vass doing an excellent job!

JB: Will you answer my question?

DV: I believe I did

Awesome that he is explaining that the LAB is the one that patents and opts to sell any devices, NOT Dr. Vass.

Della
06-06-2011, 02:05 PM
JB has been doing a lot of hand wringing today, and when he hears the word "overruled" his head does an odd twitch or jerk to the side. Something must have upset him.

BigFatMommyDog
06-06-2011, 02:05 PM
I think JB is flaying badly - he seems incapable of refuting anything presented on direct, so continues his benighted foray into conspiracy theories

realdeal
06-06-2011, 02:05 PM
Are defense attorneys usually this rude to expert witnesses? I am asking a serious question.

tiredofthis
06-06-2011, 02:05 PM
Must...not...say...something...bad.:maddening:

JB is badgering the witness about whether or not he gets royalties if his invention is sold.

jane the dood
06-06-2011, 02:05 PM
Everytime JB does a cross-exam of a recognized expert my nerves jump, I grit my teeth, and I want to scream. Sometimes I groan, loudly. Is this wrong? LOL


No, my friend, you have a lot of company! :banghead:

adnoid
06-06-2011, 02:05 PM
Anyone can also change or add information as far as I know...

And here's a list of edits to his page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arpad_Vass&action=history

Quiche
06-06-2011, 02:06 PM
Insignificant royalty is possible.

nursebeeme
06-06-2011, 02:06 PM
:yourock:

thank you all for being on your best behavior...!

rosepetal1065
06-06-2011, 02:06 PM
His tone is accustory and malicious

tehcloser
06-06-2011, 02:06 PM
How bout' them Cowboys?

Kentjbkent
06-06-2011, 02:06 PM
<------ this momma is sitting on her hands during cross


:blowkiss:

And this Momma THANKS YOU!! :seeya:

pcap
06-06-2011, 02:06 PM
So, according to Baez, Dr. Vass is lying in order to sell some device to police departments? What?? (Keyboard is now unplugged)