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sleutherontheside
06-06-2011, 05:06 PM
That giant notepad trick is so amateur. He did it with GA too.

JA thwarted it in record time.

sumbunny
06-06-2011, 05:06 PM
Spelling out MAG instead of magnesium might make the jurors remember Maggots instead.

logicalgirl
06-06-2011, 05:06 PM
Has anyone figured out what they would be able to eat for dinner tonight?
I thought I had it nailed down with Jell-o ,but then thinking about the texture....

Any ideas? Shall we just start fasting now?

Please don't go there - I do have to eat something eventually....

A chocolate bar? I think that's the only word that wasn't mentioned today...

LyndyLoo
06-06-2011, 05:06 PM
Does anyone think Baez scored anything today? If so, what? TIA

maybe it is just me (as a medical professional) but I think JB went a LONG way in helping to prove "Ground Breaking" evidenciary acceptable evidence!! and for that I thank JB..good job in helping Dr. Vass prove his premise, methodology and findings!! Great job Jose!!

:woohoo::woohoo:

sleutherontheside
06-06-2011, 05:06 PM
And now we know who made all the typos during the Frye hearings!

ANANLYSIS :floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

HOTNTX
06-06-2011, 05:06 PM
I think that Dr. Vass did an excellent job of breaking down his very complex research and the science involved with it into layman's terms. He didn't come off as a total "drone" where they had to pass around cups of coffee to keep his audience awake! LOL. He is a little eccentric but very passionate about what he does for a living and his enthusiasm for what he does showed.

Jose is annoying me more by the minute. He should lay off with the pitbull attack of the witness -- this guy (Dr. Vass) isn't getting paid (like his client did) -- it's overkill. I don't care if he is trying to save that worthless client of his.

I think that many people, especially the DT, don't give regular "Joes" like the jury, credit for just having "common sense". Sure it helps to have complex and multi-faceted experts testify to something, but guess what, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to say, for example, chemicals x, y, and z were present to show a breakdown in amino acid chains, etc., etc., and therefore that milk in the carton was bad, sour, spoiled.

How about it looks like cottage cheese to me, it smells like my baby threw it up 2 weeks ago and the chunks present in it as I pour it down the drain lets me know... "THE MILK IS SPOILED"!

Same thing with the decomposition and Caylee's body. At least 5-6 Regular Joes have experienced smelling it, testified to it, at least 3-4 professionals testified to it, chemical analysis proves it so DAMN IT, that baby decomposed in the trunk!

The more that Baez objects to the testimony (and when doesn't he?) the more I think that the jury thinks that the DT has something to hide. It's overkill and will have the opposite effect that the DT seeks have happen with the Jury, in my humble opinion.

Marina2
06-06-2011, 05:06 PM
When DH and I heard that we broke out laughing :floorlaugh:....and kept on laughing...:floorlaugh:
JBP "Mr Baez you asked the question" bwah ha ha ha ha ha :great:

I wished we would have seen Jeff Ashton's face at that time..it must have been priceless
JA certainly wasn't going to object for him. Baez didn't know how to stop Vass from stating that there were maggots on the napkins per Dr. Haskill. And the judge "...you asked it, he can answer." :floorlaugh:

MissDiva
06-06-2011, 05:07 PM
I was going to put all of Dr. Vass' awesome quotes in my siggy, but then I realized that it'd take up a page or two.

Which ones were your favorites?

Intermezzo
06-06-2011, 05:07 PM
I really think Dr. Vass could have taken JB with one hand tied behind his back. Just sayin' :innocent:

:floorlaugh:

Dear daughter just came down and we are :floorlaugh: reliving:floorlaugh: Baez Objecting to his own question..or Dr Vass's testimony to Baez's question :floorlaugh:

3doglady
06-06-2011, 05:07 PM
I'm wondering if JB's cross on the divining rod was twofold. The psychic DC talked to used divining rods too if IIRC. So if DC testifies, and the SA questions the ability of a physic who uses divining rods will JB be able to say "well you used a scientist that used divining rods".

darcedarce
06-06-2011, 05:07 PM
He tried to belittle Dr Vass and make him get up and write on his chalkboard but Mr Ashton put a stop to it. Baez then had to write up magnesium and shortened it to "MAG" because he couldn't spell it then wrote down "IO" then crossed it out and wrote iron - really, it was such a joke!

Wooow...Just when you think it can't get any more ridiculous.

faefrost
06-06-2011, 05:08 PM
Iactually am not surprised that there wasnt alot of fluorine element in Caylee's decomp fluid (:sick:)..she was less than 3 years old...yikes We are in general a toxic garbage bag of all the ca&&olla we shove into ourselves over the years..so NOT surprised Caylee didnt have such an accumlation..JMOO of course..Most certainly nothing that should compromise the results found in the findings:twocents:

Dentists will not treat children's teeth with Flouride until they are past their 3rd birthday. Everything they use on toddlers is non flourinated. My wife runs a pediatric dental clinic. I have closets full of sample toothpaste that she brings home because they cannot use it or give it to the kids, because it has flouride.

TotallyObsessed
06-06-2011, 05:08 PM
Is anybody else having problems with WS today? I cannot get it to load...been locked out about 4 hours now.

kantoo
06-06-2011, 05:08 PM
That terrific and for Caylee's sake I hope the jury shares your view. But that's not what scientific testimony in these types of trials should be about. It should be about science that has been thoroughly vetted, shown to be reproducible, and about results that have been generated through highly controlled conditions.

i thought this was interesting
http://www.forensicdna.com/Timeline020702.pdf

New York v. Castro: first case in which DNA admissibility challenged. This set in motion standardization and quality control guidelines for DNA labs and the general forensic community.

I guess i think you gotta start somewhere, or else never go forward with new technology

logicalgirl
06-06-2011, 05:08 PM
I was going to put all of Dr. Vass' awesome quotes in my siggy, but then I realized that it'd take up a page or two.

Which ones were your favorites?

It's just common sense.....

Intermezzo
06-06-2011, 05:09 PM
Brownie points from local drug dealers maybe.

sorry can't resist..you brought up brownies
:floorlaugh: did ICA bake them?
:floorlaugh:

darnudes
06-06-2011, 05:09 PM
Dr Vass "I get paid to think outside the box, I don't even know what the box is"

Beautiful! :)

darcedarce
06-06-2011, 05:09 PM
maybe it is just me (as a medical professional) but I think JB went a LONG way in helping to prove "Ground Breaking" evidenciary acceptable evidence!! and for that I thank JB..good job in helping Dr. Vass prove his premise, methodology and findings!! Great job Jose!!

:woohoo::woohoo:

You're right...that is pretty nice of JB when you really think about it. Giving up the whole case to help AV.

Broderick
06-06-2011, 05:09 PM
Time for real drinks in real life, rather than viewing tasty drinks on line.

good day for the prosecution, history in the making.

wandering
06-06-2011, 05:10 PM
It is so painful to watch JB's cross examinations...even more painful to see the recaps on HLN...smh...makes me feel like sticking needles in my eyeballs and eardrums...Yes, it really is painful. I had to turn it off during the cross. I can't get over JB thinking he could handle these forensics. Good Lord.

:banghead:

Turnadot
06-06-2011, 05:10 PM
It's not really the same thing. Here we are talking about the relatively unverified methods Vass is testifying about and I think that can be seen to parallel his belief in diving to at least some extent. I thought Baez did a good job in his final cross trying to point out Vass overextending himself in his opinions and that type of thing might be buttressed by his affection for divining.
And scientists who believe in Jesus, Angels, and a personal God who answers their prayers are just as likely to have their beliefs colour their work. We all do it to some degree, but I suppose whether or not it makes us look like a kook is how socially acceptable the belief is.

As for me, I don't care about harmless personal beliefs and hobbies.

Dr Vass is highly regarded and well respected, and is cited by scientists the world over as a - if not the - leading expert in his field. I conclude he would not be if he allowed his personal beliefs/hobby to render his work useless. My own opinion is that Dr Vass was excellent for the State.

You can believe whatever you want about his affection for divining and that's your right; I believe he has a plethora of interests and hobbies that may be socially unacceptable, but that's part of what would make him interesting to sit and have a lengthy conversation with.

If I were on the jury, the divining rod information wouldn't phase me in the slightest.

Disguiseduser0308
06-06-2011, 05:11 PM
I've been thinking: We're ten days away from when dear Caylee was taken from this world. I will be glued to the computer on June 16th. It won't slip the jurors minds to pay close attention to ICA on this anniversary as well.

In da Middle
06-06-2011, 05:11 PM
I've done this a number of times for the same reasons you state - pipelines too (Helloooo Texas!) - it's quite uncanny

And age doesn't matter! When we were first playing around with it I was about 10ish. One of my adult cousins was reading something about it and brought it up to my grandpa (lifetime farmer and backwoods peeps, he was). Well grandpa knew of it and proceeded to show us how to do it. The adult cousin that brought it up was not convinced because he could not get it to work so they handed it to me. Worked for me the first time and every time!

titanfan62702
06-06-2011, 05:11 PM
Please don't go there - I do have to eat something eventually....

A chocolate bar? I think that's the only word that wasn't mentioned today...


Don't tell me if bacon or tomatoes are out.

MissDiva
06-06-2011, 05:11 PM
Between JB objecting to his own question, and constantly asking more questions after he says he's done asking questions, I really have to wonder how many people are in his head.

TiaM
06-06-2011, 05:12 PM
I have to say I never was more intent on watching Casey through testimony this afternoon. What's with the stone face (this is a real question)? I heard on a talk show last night something about it being real...meaning as a sexual abuse survivor she's checked out? I don't belive it one bit....but how do you not show some emotion when they're talking about a child that was found wrapped in a blanket in a trunk? If she's not guilty, why wouldn't that make you upset?

This "stone-face" has only been in view since they sat a jury.

In all the hearings it was "Make him stop!", or twitch, pull, groom, twitch or Paralegal Barbie.

Most of these <unusual persons> talking heads have apparently only paid attention to a few select sound bites since July 15, 2008.

Or - they are hoping for the obviously widely dangled and often-promised "Exclusive" ICA interview that Baez is shopping for when this is all over. :loser:

marspiter
06-06-2011, 05:12 PM
I'm still wondering why in the world did they not have DS doing this cross. I mean wasn't that the whole intent of bringing her on after LKB went MIA? :waitasec:

TotallyObsessed
06-06-2011, 05:13 PM
I have to say I never was more intent on watching Casey through testimony this afternoon. What's with the stone face (this is a real question)? I heard on a talk show last night something about it being real...meaning as a sexual abuse survivor she's checked out? I don't belive it one bit....but how do you not show some emotion when they're talking about a child that was found wrapped in a blanket in a trunk? If she's not guilty, why wouldn't that make you upset?

AND that BS spewed by the THs really pizzes me off. They LOVE to say...see, she's detached as a result of her SA....but the then FAIL to point out how she laughs and giggles and googoo eyes the attorneys when the jury is out. :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

CarolAnn
06-06-2011, 05:13 PM
It's just common sense.....

Definitely one of my favorites, too .:clap:

Intermezzo
06-06-2011, 05:13 PM
JA certainly wasn't going to object for him. Baez didn't know how to stop Vass from stating that there were maggots on the napkins per Dr. Haskill. And the judge "...you asked it, he can answer." :floorlaugh:

Bombshell tonight!!
History made in a Florida courtroom today
Jeff Ashton, once again, introduces new science into a court room
Bombshell tonight!!
Jose Baez Objecting to his own question
Judge Tells Baez the witness can answer the question "...you asked it, he can answer."

logicalgirl
06-06-2011, 05:14 PM
Well Kids, carry on - I think it is Hi-Ho Hi-Ho time for me as it is mid afternoon on the West Coast and I have faked my way through the day long enough.

Hope to check back later this evening. It was a good day for Justice for Caylee and Bless Dr. Vass for his outstanding work, attitude and testimony.
So glad I didn't miss it - even if the other side of the fence or Defence I guess it was, was a hot mess.

titanfan62702
06-06-2011, 05:14 PM
He can probably inform them that he is neither a physicist or a chemist.


He might convince JB he's not an attorney.

3doglady
06-06-2011, 05:15 PM
I'm still wondering why in the world did they not have DS doing this cross. I mean wasn't that the whole intent of bringing her on after LKB went MIA.

Thought DS looked a little miffed today. At one point JB walked over to her to get some notes and she didn't look at him, just kinda shoved the papers over.

momtective
06-06-2011, 05:15 PM
A truer statement has not been made throughout the entire trial....
Dr Vaas to Jose Baez: "I don't think you quite understand what's going on here." :clap:

Themis
06-06-2011, 05:15 PM
During Dr. Vass's testimony, IIRC, he said the chloroform had a high evaporation rate and that the high levels achieved "over time". That said, to me, this was used over and over and over. To add to that, I believe he said at some point over the course of 8 hours of testimony, he referred to it as not only chloroform, but "manufactured chloroform". Anyone else catch it?
Yes. This is uncontroverted expert testimony on these issues. It is evidence. Manufactured chloroform was used repeatedly and built up in the tiny body in the trunk over time. When I put that evidence to the real life of what happened, my heart hurts for Caylee. IF ICA didn't want her she could have given her up for adoption.

darnudes
06-06-2011, 05:16 PM
I was thinking, seeing as Baez rehashed all the same points from the Frye hearings, that in all that time the only new things they found to try and attack Dr Vass on was diving rods and electronic collars on flies.

So far Baez has brought up

Websleuths
Facebook
Wikipedia

Seriously, who in the hell is doing the research for this team and is this the best they've got? Because in that case they've got nothing. It's pretty obvious that Baez is used to trolling around on social media sites - methinks it might be better for him to spend less time doing that and more time looking for case law that might support his position.

Mountain_Kat
06-06-2011, 05:17 PM
Can someone tell me how JB came to be ICA's attorney?

Emeralgem
06-06-2011, 05:17 PM
I think she is in love with Baez. Jmo.

I'm thinking LUST.. I can assure you she has no clue as to what love is..JMHO

ami
06-06-2011, 05:17 PM
A truer statement has not been made throughout the entire trial....
Dr Vaas to Jose Baez: "I don't think you quite understand what's going on here." :clap:

Or JB asking, "Did you hear that from Dr. Vass?"

"I am Dr. Vass"

JB heehaws at his own stupidity.

Classic!

MissDiva
06-06-2011, 05:18 PM
Can someone tell me how JB came to be ICA's attorney?

She hired him. All things considered, sounds like a logical choice to me.

marspiter
06-06-2011, 05:18 PM
Thought DS looked a little miffed today. At one point JB walked over to her to get some notes and she didn't look at him, just kinda shoved the papers over.

Perhaps JB wanted DS to address some things in a manner that wasn't up to her moral/ethical standards. Not that I would accuse JB of doing anything unethical or immoral. Just tossing that out as a possible hypothetical as to why DS might not have done the cross. :innocent:

Intermezzo
06-06-2011, 05:18 PM
Objectively speaking, there were points Baez should have pressed Dr Vass on, but he didn't, which hurt Baez badly, which hurts his client far more. If he really cared about a vigorous defense, he would have passed Dr Vass to Sims. At least she has practical experience, IMO. I have the utmost respect for Dr Vass and his work, but a better lawyer could have done damage control and given Dr Vass' testimony a problem, so to speak.

I'm glad Baez's cross was a fail; he made very little headway and no real dents in JA's direct exam, but I can't help but think Baez's failure is mostly due to his inexperience.

I wonder what the jury must be thinking after Baez's cross.

bbm
I agree..how many times did he go over to the table and she had to give him things to ask?
Has Sims become Baez's new paralegal?

eaglemom
06-06-2011, 05:18 PM
He didn't score anything with me. All I wanted to know on cross was who collected the air sample Dr. Vass analyzed, were they qualified to do so, and what types of conditions might contaminate the air samples.

JB failed to makes any of the answers to those questions clear to me. Touched on a few, barely, went on to pot and munchies, then lost me completely.

from testimony by OCSO Vincent Day 10 (Morning) -

He agreed there were multiple attempts to collect air samples. He did not collect them on the 17 and the 23rd. Dr. Sigmond did it. He observed. Different types of filters were used to collect the air samples. First there was the syringe, then the carbon filters, then in August he received the pump from Dr. Voss - that is the only sample he collected.

He agreed that air would come and go in the trunk and in the garage bay.

He did not test the air in the A's garage, tow yard or near the dumpster at the tow yard.

The 8/29/08 air samples - he took samples of the forensics bay air. It is evidence.

He thinks the tests were conducted to see what was in the air in the different locations, not to compare them, other than to see if the air in the garage made it into the trunk and visa versa. He agreed the forensics bay garage was taken a month later.

He thinks the prior samples were taken due to the odor.

He took an air sample of the trash. He did this on 8/29. He did not test it on 7/16 so he couldn't say if there was a difference. (JB's questions are very confusing!!)

**************************

I hope that helps

ami
06-06-2011, 05:18 PM
I was thinking, seeing as Baez rehashed all the same points from the Frye hearings, that in all that time the only new things they found to try and attack Dr Vass on was diving rods and electronic collars on flies.

So far Baez has brought up

Websleuths
Facebook
Wikipedia

Seriously, who in the hell is doing the research for this team and is this the best they've got? Because in that case they've got nothing. It's pretty obvious that Baez is used to trolling around on social media sites - methinks it might be better for him to spend less time doing that and more time looking for case law that might support his position.

Have we exhausted the subject of the wikipedia edits from a florida IP address during the trial lunch hour yet?

wandering
06-06-2011, 05:19 PM
A truer statement has not been made throughout the entire trial....
Dr Vaas to Jose Baez: "I don't think you quite understand what's going on here." :clap:lol, {snap}I missed that!

:great:

Reality Orlando
06-06-2011, 05:19 PM
This "stone-face" has only been in view since they sat a jury.

In all the hearings it was "Make him stop!", or twitch, pull, groom, twitch or Paralegal Barbie.

Most of these <unusual persons> talking heads have apparently only paid attention to a few select sound bites since July 15, 2008.

Or - they are hoping for the obviously widely dangled and often-promised "Exclusive" ICA interview that Baez is shopping for when this is all over. :loser:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but KC can't make money from this case if found guilty, right? Can Baez? If so, that would be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wrong. No one should be able to make a cent off the death of another person. That includes all the morons selling death memorabilia on Ebay. I find that disgraceful.

suzihawk
06-06-2011, 05:19 PM
I've been thinking: We're ten days away from when dear Caylee was taken from this world. I will be glued to the computer on June 16th. It won't slip the jurors minds to pay close attention to ICA on this anniversary as well.

I hope the SA is able to work this 'anniversary' date (hate that term for marking the year of a death, btw) into the questioning often on June 16th.

Scamperoo
06-06-2011, 05:20 PM
I've seen witching for water, and IIRC, metal clothes hangers were used. Not just any clothes hangers will work, and not everyone has the necessary skill to use the right ones.

In Somerset, England I went with a group of diviners cloaked in a healthy degree of skepticism. They used wood from a certain type of tree and they let me try....I walked around holding the split stick in front of me keeping tension on, the next thing I knew the stick twisted gouging my hands then flipped back and split my lip open....never doing that again. I didn't ask what I found, I just stomped off home...I still have the scar on my lip.

Liz
06-06-2011, 05:20 PM
Does anyone besides me think that it is very possible that the state of FL may achieve a new record in the Guinness World Book of Records for the most objections sustained in a single criminal trial?

And likewise, that JB may obtain a new world record for the number of objections voiced and over-ruled in a single criminal trial?

:waitasec:

darnudes
06-06-2011, 05:20 PM
Can someone tell me how JB came to be ICA's attorney?

Recommended by other inmates but as one smart attorney said, who'd take a recommendation from someone in prison - as their attorney obviously didn't keep them out of jail :)

Themis
06-06-2011, 05:20 PM
Can someone tell me how JB came to be ICA's attorney?
Nope. I cannot answer this. I can't say anything that wouldn't be snarky.

Writing 1,000 times: "I will not violate TOS."

Reality Orlando
06-06-2011, 05:20 PM
Have we exhausted the subject of the wikipedia edits from a florida IP address during the trial lunch hour yet?

Was there any explanation for those? I find that very strange.

wenwe4
06-06-2011, 05:20 PM
Mt. Kat - kc hired JB after he came highly recommended from other inmates @ booking.

In da Middle
06-06-2011, 05:20 PM
Dentists will not treat children's teeth with Flouride until they are past their 3rd birthday. Everything they use on toddlers is non flourinated. My wife runs a pediatric dental clinic. I have closets full of sample toothpaste that she brings home because they cannot use it or give it to the kids, because it has flouride.


But a lot of cities add fluoride to their municipal water supply. Mine does and I think somebody brought up that Orlando does also. When my city started it, it was published that water filtration systems DO filter it out. They stated this so the families who didn't want to get it could filter it out.

TotallyObsessed
06-06-2011, 05:20 PM
Bombshell tonight!!
History made in a Florida courtroom today
Jeff Ashton, once again, introduces new science into a court room
Bombshell tonight!!
Jose Baez Objecting to his own question
Judge Tells Baez the witness can answer the question "...you asked it, he can answer."

I read that in perfect NG-ease in my head.....you sound just like her! :floorlaugh:

faefrost
06-06-2011, 05:20 PM
I'm still wondering why in the world did they not have DS doing this cross. I mean wasn't that the whole intent of bringing her on after LKB went MIA? :waitasec:

I'm wondering if the JB solo show is what seems to have pushed HHJP to decide that "school is over!" I think the judge may have been expecting a more varied parade of lawyers from the defense team to be on display. The fact that the inexperienced and grossly unqualified JB is seeking to single handedly defend a capital case has got to be alarming to the judge?

fifteen89
06-06-2011, 05:21 PM
ICA told JB "good job" before she left..........*thud.

Seriously? She really did? Wow. She's completey delusional. imo

Intermezzo
06-06-2011, 05:21 PM
Apparently Baez and Co likes pulling that subpoena carp with all the witness who he really has a vendetta against. I.E. Amy H, Dr. Vass and probably will with Kronk also.

He's a pathetic man. IMO

Yes, that is becoming apparent isn't it

LyndyLoo
06-06-2011, 05:22 PM
:floorlaugh:In keeping with the "Websleuthmyster's montra"..I am going to take a wee break..and wish to congratulate DT/namely JB for assisting the Courts of Justice to bring Decomp ability proof to the table!!..I always try and look at the "Bright Side" of the issues..just as I watched the introduction of DNA to the Courts..I have been so Blessed to witness this :blushing::tyou::websleuther::fireworks:

With that,salute for awhile:seeya:

3doglady
06-06-2011, 05:22 PM
Perhaps JB wanted DS to address some things in a manner that wasn't up to her moral/ethical standards. Not that I would accuse JB of doing anything unethical or immoral. Just tossing that out as a possible hypothetical as to why DS might not have done the cross. :innocent:

Plus JB wants all the "glory" or attention for himself. Maybe these are the real reasons the other DT members quit.

fifteen89
06-06-2011, 05:22 PM
I want to buy Dr. Vass a steak dinner at the best steakhouse in town! He so deserves it!!!! Too bad I don't live in Florida, lol.

Better make that a burger. Wonder if he likes them well-done or rare.

wandering
06-06-2011, 05:22 PM
I'm thinking LUST.. I can assure you she has no clue as to what love is..JMHO

Besides, JB has been the only male in her presence, for 3 years.

strawberry
06-06-2011, 05:22 PM
The stinky squirrel was striking at midnight on Clickorlando.com. BUt nothing exciting came out of it.

Intermezzo
06-06-2011, 05:23 PM
Oh geez, I started keeping track and lost count how many times JB was overruled... anyone?

wait let me go and look at my White Board...i had a tally going...
sorry the kids erased it and started drawing funny faces...

Softail
06-06-2011, 05:23 PM
I was thinking, seeing as Baez rehashed all the same points from the Frye hearings, that in all that time the only new things they found to try and attack Dr Vass on was diving rods and electronic collars on flies.

So far Baez has brought up

Websleuths
Facebook
Wikipedia

Seriously, who in the hell is doing the research for this team and is this the best they've got? Because in that case they've got nothing. It's pretty obvious that Baez is used to trolling around on social media sites - methinks it might be better for him to spend less time doing that and more time looking for case law that might support his position.

The only reason I think he mentioned WS, is out of pure jealousy that he was not nominated for an all-star of anything. :giggle:

Dr. Know?
06-06-2011, 05:23 PM
I too am a divining rod expert like Dr. Vass. My dad taught us when I was about 6 or 7 years old with coat hangers. It's easy and not that big of deal, but we could locate pipes on our property using them. What's the big deal Jose? It works...it's his "hobby".

RR0004
06-06-2011, 05:24 PM
I've been thinking: We're ten days away from when dear Caylee was taken from this world. I will be glued to the computer on June 16th. It won't slip the jurors minds to pay close attention to ICA on this anniversary as well.
OMG...I had forgotten....wow!

Shadow5618
06-06-2011, 05:24 PM
I didn't get to see anything this afternoon - is Dr Vass coming back tomorrow? (I hope)! I just LOVE that guy!

Girlrilla
06-06-2011, 05:24 PM
Objectively speaking, there were points Baez should have pressed Dr Vass on, but he didn't, which hurt Baez badly, which hurts his client far more. If he really cared about a vigorous defense, he would have passed Dr Vass to Sims. At least she has practical experience, IMO. I have the utmost respect for Dr Vass and his work, but a better lawyer could have done damage control and given Dr Vass' testimony a problem, so to speak.

I'm glad Baez's cross was a fail; he made very little headway and no real dents in JA's direct exam, but I can't help but think Baez's failure is mostly due to his inexperience.

I wonder what the jury must be thinking after Baez's cross.

I thought the whole point of Sims being there was to cross the medical/science experts. I was surprised when it was Baez today.

Curious Me
06-06-2011, 05:25 PM
During Dr. Vass's testimony, IIRC, he said the chloroform had a high evaporation rate and that the high levels achieved "over time". That said, to me, this was used over and over and over. To add to that, I believe he said at some point over the course of 8 hours of testimony, he referred to it as not only chloroform, but "manufactured chloroform". Anyone else catch it?

Wow, the chloroform testimony of Dr. Vass is going to the cause of death. This is big. What does "manufactured chloroform" mean to this case? Did Casey buy/steal already made chloroform? It sounds like it was used more than once. Shocking.

suzihawk
06-06-2011, 05:26 PM
Have we exhausted the subject of the wikipedia edits from a florida IP address during the trial lunch hour yet?


Was there any explanation for those? I find that very strange.

I want to know much more about this! Very hinky - VERY!

Wikipediagate.

Mountain_Kat
06-06-2011, 05:26 PM
The stinky squirrel was striking at midnight on Clickorlando.com. BUt nothing exciting came out of it.

Sounds like spy lingo. "The stinky squirrel strikes at midnight." ;)

Chili Fries
06-06-2011, 05:26 PM
i thought this was interesting
http://www.forensicdna.com/Timeline020702.pdf

New York v. Castro: first case in which DNA admissibility challenged. This set in motion standardization and quality control guidelines for DNA labs and the general forensic community.

I guess i think you gotta start somewhere, or else never go forward with new technology
But you have to judge each individual technique on it's own merits. That is based on the research and protocols which buttress any relatively new technique.

If I were a juror I would find Casey's own words to be the main reason I would be strongly leaning toward guilt at this point. I just haven't heard anything that definitively says there was a dead body in the trunk (although I believe there was as merely a trial watcher who does not have the weight of deciding justice on my shoulders). I would discount the tow yard worker's testimony because his credentials were vague. I would question George's testimony because he didn't immediately call 911 for whatever reason. And, as I have posted today, I would have reservations about Vass' testimony. I believe there was also a forensic technician of some sort who also testified about decomposition but I can't judge his testimony because I wasn't able to pay attention to it.

catnron
06-06-2011, 05:27 PM
What about when Baez asked DR. Vass if he Knew of a Dr. Vass and DR. Vass replied to Baez " I am DR. Vass" I laughed so hard my ribs hurt!

Intermezzo
06-06-2011, 05:27 PM
During Dr. Vass's testimony, IIRC, he said the chloroform had a high evaporation rate and that the high levels achieved "over time". That said, to me, this was used over and over and over. To add to that, I believe he said at some point over the course of 8 hours of testimony, he referred to it as not only chloroform, but "manufactured chloroform". Anyone else catch it?

yes..he said something about in the manufacturing of the product or chloroform..something along those lines

darnudes
06-06-2011, 05:28 PM
I think Baez not letting Sims up there goes back to the Frye hearings - Jeff Ashton was able to rattle her so badly that it was actually a tie between her and Baez about which one was actually worse. Baez was slightly ahead on those hearings. Sims really was a joke at them but I couldn't see how she would have done any worse today than Baez. Now Baez has lost credibility with the jury and why wouldn't they be thinking like us - the spelling, the objections, the sustaineds, the objecting to his own question, running back and forth to Sims, it was an absolute farce!

And ICA is perfectly happy with that display today as she gave Baez a big tap and a good job.

Darla
06-06-2011, 05:28 PM
My niece would like to know who the African American is that sits in the front row, second seat on viewers left. Is he a journalist? He sits in the same seat every day.

Emeralgem
06-06-2011, 05:28 PM
What about when Baez ask DR. Vass if he knew DR. Vass and DR. Vass replied " I am Dr. Vass.. I laughed so hard my ribs was hurting!

I missed that..

ami
06-06-2011, 05:28 PM
Was there any explanation for those? I find that very strange.





(cur | prev) 17:55, 6 June 2011 97.104.160.149 (talk) (6,402 bytes) (undo)
Country: United States
State/Region: Florida
City: Deltona
"Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D., is a research chemist scientist, a bichemist [sic] and forensic anthropologist based at the Life Sciences Division of Oak Ridge National Laboratory (ORNL), in Oak Ridge, Tennessee."

(cur | prev) 17:55, 6 June 2011 97.104.160.149 (talk) (6,403 bytes) (undo)
Country: United States
State/Region: Florida
City: Deltona
Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D., is a research chemist scientist, a biochemist and forensic anthropologist based at the Life Sciences Division of Oak Ridge National Laboratory (ORNL), in Oak Ridge, Tennessee.

(cur | prev) 17:56, 6 June 2011 96.57.103.174 (talk) (6,381 bytes) (undo)
Hostname: vpn.jlshapiro.com
ISP: Optimum Online
Country: United States
State/Region: New Jersey
City: Rahway
Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D., is a research scientist and forensic anthropologist based at the Life Sciences Division of Oak Ridge National Laboratory (ORNL), in Oak Ridge, Tennessee.


(cur | prev) 17:57, 6 June 2011 97.104.160.149 (talk) (6,393 bytes) (undo)
Country: United States
State/Region: Florida
City: Deltona
Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D., is a biochemist, research scientist and forensic anthropologist based at the Life Sciences Division of Oak Ridge National Laboratory (ORNL), in Oak Ridge, Tennessee.

(cur | prev) 17:58, 6 June 2011 64.79.101.174 (talk) (6,377 bytes) (undo)
Country: United Kingdom
State/Region: London, City of
City: London
Arpad A. Vass, Ph.D., is research scientist and forensic anthropologist based at the Life Sciences Division of Oak Ridge National Laboratory (ORNL), in Oak Ridge, Tennessee.

Themis
06-06-2011, 05:29 PM
:floorlaugh:In keeping with the "Websleuthmyster's montra"..I am going to take a wee break..and wish to congratulate DT/namely JB for assisting the Courts of Justice to bring Decomp ability proof to the table!!..I always try and look at the "Bright Side" of the issues..just as I watched the introduction of DNA to the Courts..I have been so Blessed to witness this :blushing::tyou::websleuther::fireworks:

With that,salute for awhile:seeya:
You watched the introduction of DNA to the Courts! :woohoo::goodpost::cheer:

THIS WAS A HUGE DAY FOR THE LAW!!!! :toastred:

Intermezzo
06-06-2011, 05:31 PM
Dr Vass "I get paid to think outside the box, I don't even know what the box is"

Beautiful! :)

DH and I just loved :great: when Dr Vass said that

marspiter
06-06-2011, 05:32 PM
I'm wondering if the JB solo show is what seems to have pushed HHJP to decide that "school is over!" I think the judge may have been expecting a more varied parade of lawyers from the defense team to be on display. The fact that the inexperienced and grossly unqualified JB is seeking to single handedly defend a capital case has got to be alarming to the judge?

Which kind of leads me to a legal question. Doesn't CM being the only DP qualified attorney on the DT mean he has to be 1st chair? So why isn't CM more involved during the trial?

That or can JB try the case as 1st chair with CM "coaching" him?

darnudes
06-06-2011, 05:32 PM
The one that made me really really laugh today was the poster here who said something about "Mr Snugglephgus" and Sesame St after Baez tried 2/3 times to pronounce the Greek gentleman's name. That comment killed me.

RR0004
06-06-2011, 05:33 PM
Were the As in court today?

The Eunice Burns
06-06-2011, 05:34 PM
But you have to judge each individual technique on it's own merits. That is based on the research and protocols which buttress any relatively new technique.

If I were a juror I would find Casey's own words to be the main reason I would be strongly leaning toward guilt at this point. I just haven't heard anything that definitively says there was a dead body in the trunk (although I believe there was as merely a trial watcher who does not have the weight of deciding justice on my shoulders). I would discount the tow yard worker's testimony because his credentials were vague. I would question George's testimony because he didn't immediately call 911 for whatever reason. And, as I have posted today, I would have reservations about Vass' testimony. I believe there was also a forensic technician of some sort who also testified about decomposition but I can't judge his testimony because I wasn't able to pay attention to it.

I disagree, but for the sake of brevity and not rehashing what others have said before......I'll keep it to this.......

Simon Birch was an excellent witness, IMO. He was well spoken, very clear and concise on procedures, and offered testimony based on his experience at the tow company and as an employee of a waste management company. I don't think the jury would/will discount his testimony. MO

Girlrilla
06-06-2011, 05:34 PM
Mt. Kat - kc hired JB after he came highly recommended from other inmates @ booking.

And at the time it wasn't a death penalty case. Once it became that she should've taken a public defender.

WholeLottaRosie
06-06-2011, 05:34 PM
What is remarkable about this morning is, no matter how technical things became, everyone, with the exception of the DT, enjoyed listening to Dr Vass. Not only this, but I am sure the jury want to hear more just to hear him speak, he is one of the most fun and interesting witnesses thus far. He exudes personality and super intelligence, I am in awe of the man, Baez can only look foolish trying to discredit him.

I am not too concerned about Baez interrupting, we just got to see Dr.Vass for longer.

I will be forever grateful to Dr. Vass as my 13 year old was riveted to his testimony, making notes and is just a fire with a renewed interest in science. We are going to have a fun summer, I am going to be reading here and then off to find some things for her to do.

momtective
06-06-2011, 05:35 PM
I've been thinking: We're ten days away from when dear Caylee was taken from this world. I will be glued to the computer on June 16th. It won't slip the jurors minds to pay close attention to ICA on this anniversary as well.

Although I'm sure the DT will come and read here and prep their client to behave in the appropriate "mourning" manner...One week from Thursday will be a day when the world will be closely focused on ICA...my guess is she will cry a river that day...and that day only. At her attorneys urging, I strongly suspect she will have a complete breakdown in front of the jury. Yes indeed this is sure to be a red letter day for the defense. :banghead:

cecybeans
06-06-2011, 05:35 PM
I'm wondering if pool supplies were purchased on one of those two dates. IIRC, in the emails collected from Cindy's mom, there was mention of the pool being put into use the first weekend of June. In other words, while Cindy has tried to make everyone believe that they religiously put the ladder on and off the pool, those emails make it appear that the pool may have only first been used for the season, beginning the first weekend in June.

For one thing, I doubt ICA would be buying pool chemicals with her stolen money (the way nobody believes she needed a shovel to suddenly dig up bamboo roots), and I'm assuming that all pertinent videos in discovery relate only to the defendant.

Secondly, the swimming season in FL starts long before June. A lot of snowbirds swim during the Christmas holidays if the weather is decent (even though it makes the residents nuts).

Discovery in a Sunshine Law state is kind of a double-edged sword. Some things are not released into discovery if they are part of an on-going investigation or if they are too inculpatory/inflammatory. Which means things we have not yet seen could either be completely immaterial or incredibly significant. The videos of ICA shopping with stolen money would not have the same impact of a video showing her purchasing a mask and chemicals to make chloroform. So it could either be nothing at all or something really significant. I'm also wondering as to why they were released relatively late in the discovery process (4-11) but it could be the same reason.

For some reason (and I'm hoping it's just not complete incompetence), JB was anxious to have Dr. Vass linger all day on the stand answering idiotic questions and belaboring points in a way that only a fool of an attorney wouldn't realize was alienating a jury and ruining his credibility. Maybe he was simply trying to delay the inevitable. But this is also the second day the dog handler people have had to wait outside to testify and go home without being in court, so I'm assuming the state had planned on getting through the lab stuff and the dog stuff by tomorrow. Maybe whatever is coming after that is of huge concern to the DT.

sorrell skye
06-06-2011, 05:36 PM
I was going to put all of Dr. Vass' awesome quotes in my siggy, but then I realized that it'd take up a page or two.

Which ones were your favorites?

Ashton: "Remember when your deposition was taken by Mr. Baez?"

Dr. Vass: "The inquisition you mean?"


If anyone can resist the torture of the Comfy Chair, it's my man Dr. Vass.

Nali87
06-06-2011, 05:36 PM
I can't wait to see how the state will do in cross-examinating the defense witnesses.

joypath
06-06-2011, 05:37 PM
Better make that a burger. Wonder if he likes them well-done or rare.


:floorlaugh::floorlaugh: I am so sure he's on the "make it at least 160 degrees cooked" bandwagon! Escherichia coli 0157:H7 is NOT a condiment!:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:


PS: had a microbiology prof who named his daughter Serratia after the bacteria Serratia marcescens.:innocent:

Nali87
06-06-2011, 05:37 PM
My 100th post! In 3 days! I type a lot. :floorlaugh:

6Cinder1ella2011
06-06-2011, 05:37 PM
prior to the discussion of the Labrador patent &$: (IMO JB wasting time) the divining rod presentation. As it was-Dr V is a goal oriented scientific researcher on the cutting edge of a new frontier in evidence. A fine gentleman presented his decades challenges and hobbiest enthusiasm most properly as a goal focused multiidisiplined expert.

Turnadot
06-06-2011, 05:37 PM
One more thing about Dr Vass, I don't think for one moment the freaking FBI would seek Dr Vass out for his expertise if his work and methodology were followed by a big question mark.

kantoo
06-06-2011, 05:38 PM
Can someone tell me how JB came to be ICA's attorney?

ICA heard some inmates talking about him....i think i would rather get a referral from someone who has been "sprung", but that's just me

Miaa
06-06-2011, 05:38 PM
What about when Baez asked DR. Vass if he Knew of a Dr. Vass and DR. Vass replied to Baez " I am DR. Vass" I laughed so hard my ribs hurt!
That was the most hilarious exchange I've heard during a trial. I about coughed up a lung. :floorlaugh:

Themis
06-06-2011, 05:38 PM
Can you explain? TIA
JB complained but it was HHJP that used the term objection and then ruled on it. He said JB asked the question and the witness could answer. JB then withdrew the question. IIRC

Intermezzo
06-06-2011, 05:39 PM
Were the As in court today?

yes they were.

Cherry Baby
06-06-2011, 05:41 PM
I will be forever grateful to Dr. Vass as my 13 year old was riveted to his testimony, making notes and is just a fire with a renewed interest in science.

My daughter as well. She even told me that she watched a bit Saturday while she was her friend's house. Ahh, two young WS'ers in training!

Coincidence - just got the last term report card, two B's, two A-'s, and two A's. She is officially smarter than a certain lawyer we watched today.

Juliana
06-06-2011, 05:41 PM
Have we exhausted the subject of the wikipedia edits from a florida IP address during the trial lunch hour yet?



This is so suspicious. I hope HHBP, SA or media looks into this. Richard Hornsby...where are ya?

The Eunice Burns
06-06-2011, 05:41 PM
Slightly OT, and may have been mentioned before.......

I am reading a book called "Stiff" by Mary Roach. I think it is the 3rd chapter; she goes to visit Dr. Vass for her book. Very interesting.

momtective
06-06-2011, 05:41 PM
prior to the discussion of the Labrador patent &$: (IMO JB wasting time) the divining rod presentation. As it was-Dr V is a goal oriented scientific researcher on the cutting edge of a new frontier in evidence. A fine gentleman presented his decades challenges and hobbiest enthusiasm most properly as a goal focused multiidisiplined expert.

I could not help but think about the pioneer scientists and researchers during this testimony and wonder if Benjamin Franklin would have been questioned in such a manner when he discovered electricity.:floorlaugh:

eaglemom
06-06-2011, 05:41 PM
We still have the dog handlers coming to testify - the decomp evidence for the car is going to be overwhelming strong - IMO

tow truck driver - had worked for both towing company and smelled dead bodies and waste management (no ulterior motive) said it smelled like a dead body
GA - said it smelled like a dead body and he had occasion to smell them in his past as law enforcement officer
CA - strong odor hard to pin down that it smelled like a dead body (but did say at the time it was the worst smell she had ever smelled and was similar to flesh she had to debride as a nurse)
Law enforcement - some smelled it others didn't - those processing vehicle (CSI in direct contact) did
Dr. Vass - has worked with and around decomposing bodies for 20 years - said it smelled like a dead body (at least his carpet sample did)- and whether one agrees with his scientific process or not - his smelling process works fine
Dr. Karen Lowe - FBI hair examiner - root banding on hair - disagreement on whther JB did damage to her testimony or not - my personal opinion is no but I may have already understood too much about it to be objective

MOO

housemouse
06-06-2011, 05:42 PM
You can believe whatever you want about his affection for divining and that's your right; I believe he has a plethora of interests and hobbies that may be socially unacceptable, but that's part of what would make him interesting to sit and have a lengthy conversation with.

If I were on the jury, the divining rod information wouldn't phase me in the slightest.

For whatever it is worth, my husband (architect) was hired to build some condominiums on 20 acres of raw land, and called a local well-driller with an excellent reputation for digging good wells.

He walked the property with the well driller, who pulled out his dowsing rods, and found the very best location for a well that could supply the condos with all the water they needed, even in a drought. My husband was surprised, as he went to MIT, the kind of school where such things are made fun of.

Being skeptical, but polite, he asked the well driller to explain how these worked. The well driller explained that not everyone can use them effectively, but that some people have the ability. He then showed my husband how to use them, and walked to another part of the property for hubbie's practice.

Bingo, hubbie found several other locations where there was the potential for a good well, and was completely convinced. The well driller told him that whatever makes this possible, my husband had the talent/ability to find water.

texaslb218
06-06-2011, 05:42 PM
Although I'm sure the DT will come and read here and prep their client to behave in the appropriate "mourning" manner...One week from Thursday will be a day when the world will be closely focused on ICA...my guess is she will cry a river that day...and that day only. At her attorneys urging, I strongly suspect she will have a complete breakdown in front of the jury. Yes indeed this is sure to be a red letter day for the defense. :banghead:
I agree with your opinion, But I don't think ICA can sustain that level of emotion (of any kind, even anger) for a whole day. I think she flits from state of mind (not emotion) to another, always deciding what she should be doing or expressing.

ynotdivein
06-06-2011, 05:43 PM
Although I'm sure the DT will come and read here and prep their client to behave in the appropriate "mourning" manner...One week from Thursday will be a day when the world will be closely focused on ICA...my guess is she will cry a river that day...and that day only. At her attorneys urging, I strongly suspect she will have a complete breakdown in front of the jury. Yes indeed this is sure to be a red letter day for the defense. :banghead:

Didn't the SA say that they would be wrapping up their presentation the 16th or 17th? Something tells me that one way or another, they won't let this slip by the jurors' notice.

Goes to my earlier comment that the SA has scripted this, as far as possible, down to the minute. If I understand correctly what they are doing, they're following the timeline, and I wonder if they will finish by going back through the timeline to reinforce it using the ping and text data. IMO!

marspiter
06-06-2011, 05:43 PM
But you have to judge each individual technique on it's own merits. That is based on the research and protocols which buttress any relatively new technique.

If I were a juror I would find Casey's own words to be the main reason I would be strongly leaning toward guilt at this point. I just haven't heard anything that definitively says there was a dead body in the trunk (although I believe there was as merely a trial watcher who does not have the weight of deciding justice on my shoulders). I would discount the tow yard worker's testimony because his credentials were vague. I would question George's testimony because he didn't immediately call 911 for whatever reason. And, as I have posted today, I would have reservations about Vass' testimony. I believe there was also a forensic technician of some sort who also testified about decomposition but I can't judge his testimony because I wasn't able to pay attention to it.

Well here is the thing about circumstantial evidence. You have multiple witnesses with experience in smelling decomp testify that they smelled decomp. Next you have the grave wax, air analysis, cadaver dog hits (not in evidence as of yet). It's not that any one of those definitively says a dead body was in the car. It's the whole picture and when you place that evidence together with one another that it eliminates any other possible answer. The only conclusion from looking at all of those together is that there was indeed a dead body in the trunk imo.

I really wish the SA could let the jury smell those sealed cans.

TxLady2
06-06-2011, 05:45 PM
I disagree, but for the sake of brevity and not rehashing what others have said before......I'll keep it to this.......

Simon Birch was an excellent witness, IMO. He was well spoken, very clear and concise on procedures, and offered testimony based on his experience at the tow company and as an employee of a waste management company. I don't think the jury would/will discount his testimony. MO

I agree with you, he was excellent as a witness! I loved his accent, I wonder if he was originally from Australia. Anyway, if you've ever smelled human decomp, you don't have to be a scientist to recognize it. I'm not a chef, but I recognize the smell of food cooking.

ZsaZsa
06-06-2011, 05:46 PM
I too am a divining rod expert like Dr. Vass. My dad taught us when I was about 6 or 7 years old with coat hangers. It's easy and not that big of deal, but we could locate pipes on our property using them. What's the big deal Jose? It works...it's his "hobby".

A lot of people use divining rods to locate water, very successfully.
That's as old as the hills.
Just another example of the breadth of ignorance of JB.

yllek
06-06-2011, 05:46 PM
I am suprised today was not a total downer in court, considering the subject matter. Not only did we learn a lot from Dr. Vass, imo, there were some genuinely funny moments which were in no way disrespectful to the tragedy at hand.

My personal favorite was when Ashton did his redirect of Dr. Vass, who basically stated that it could be possible that the stain in the trunk came from meat. What I took away from Dr. Vass's answer was that someone would have had to gather pounds of raw meat which had to come from an animal who had eaten a human before being slaughtered (how else would the meat have human-only chemicals?), wrapped it in a bag and placed it in the trunk of a car (in the hot Florida sun). Dr. Vass has integrity, imo. He answers scientifically that "yes" it is possible, but the conditions under which it is possible are as probable as Jose Baez getting through court tomorrow without asking for a mistrial, objecting to his own question, or having the majority of his objections sustained. The likelihood is too small to measure... JMO..

darnudes
06-06-2011, 05:46 PM
Watching the body language of Baez today (when doing cross or not) was just spellbinding, he was so angry at one stage he was trying to write and couldn't even get the words together, he was also continuously hovering over that mic button as if he was a contestant in a game show.

The defense can't go on like this - a human beings life is on the line and Mason needs to step up and tell Baez that he is tap dancing his client all the way into a death sentence. As funny as watching Baez is someone needs to take control otherwise a complete mockery is being made of the justice system.

zippitydoda
06-06-2011, 05:47 PM
The one that made me really really laugh today was the poster here who said something about "Mr Snugglephgus" and Sesame St after Baez tried 2/3 times to pronounce the Greek gentleman's name. That comment killed me.

:floorlaugh: Pardon me Darnudes, but I do believe the correct name is Mr. Snuffleupagus, who, if I may also point out, is not a chemist.

BigFatMommyDog
06-06-2011, 05:47 PM
Slightly OT, and may have been mentioned before.......

I am reading a book called "Stiff" by Mary Roach. I think it is the 3rd chapter; she goes to visit Dr. Vass for her book. Very interesting.

Fantastic Book! I read it a while ago - I wonder where it went to...

Recommended reading - library usually has it (I may need to get another copy...checking kindle....)

3doglady
06-06-2011, 05:47 PM
My daughter as well. She even told me that she watched a bit Saturday while she was her friend's house. Ahh, two young WS'ers in training!

Coincidence - just got the last term report card, two B's, two A-'s, and two A's. She is officially smarter than a certain lawyer we watched today.

That's great! I recently heard that kids no longer dissect real frogs in school, is that true?

The Eunice Burns
06-06-2011, 05:49 PM
A lot of people use divining rods to locate water, very successfully.
That's as old as the hills.
Just another example of the breadth of ignorance of JB.

As we all know, JB is trying to make Dr. Vass look like a freaky dude who happened to end up testifying in this case.

Even if there were skeptics on the jury, what JB did just violates any sense of fair play, IMO. I think that will matter to the jury. Not cool.

ynotdivein
06-06-2011, 05:49 PM
Well here is the thing about circumstantial evidence. You have multiple witnesses with experience in smelling decomp testify that they smelled decomp. Next you have the grave wax, air analysis, cadaver dog hits (not in evidence as of yet). It's not that any one of those definitively says a dead body was in the car. It's the whole picture and when you place that evidence together with one another that it eliminates any other possible answer. The only conclusion from looking at all of those together is that there was indeed a dead body in the trunk imo.

I really wish the SA could let the jury smell those sealed cans.

RBBM, Marspiter, and I am right with you there! But as much as those cans have been paraded in front of them, and as much hay as the defense has made over this part of the evidence, I will not be surprised one bit if the jury asks for the cans & to be able to smell them during their deliberations... (I sure hope so at least...)

Nali87
06-06-2011, 05:49 PM
I could not help but think about the pioneer scientists and researchers during this testimony and wonder if Benjamin Franklin would have been questioned in such a manner when he discovered electricity.:floorlaugh:

LOL. Well, Galileo was! I wonder if he's bitter about Pluto too..

I think it's perfectly normal to question a new theory as a defense lawyer or a scientist, but the fact that JB was so rude and obnoxious while doing it turned me off.

darnudes
06-06-2011, 05:51 PM
Oh, I'm off to watch the hearing again - I want to concentrate fully on Dr Vass this time and watch history in the making again.

Keep your tinfoil hats on peeps, I'm sure Baez will be snooping later. :)

everyoneneedsavoice
06-06-2011, 05:51 PM
Even Dr. Drew stated last night on his show that "it's impossible to like this girl." And that's saying a lot!

BBM

Yes, it is...especially considering his statements on the first day of the trial; in which he all but said he believed all of the DT's OS, thought ICA had a drug problem and implied she was "the victim" of the case.

LOL - guess he finally read / caught up!

mydailyopinions
06-06-2011, 05:52 PM
That's great! I recently heard that kids no longer dissect real frogs in school, is that true?

My senior didn't dissect a frog, but he did skin a cat and dissect it.:sick:

tragco
06-06-2011, 05:54 PM
I thought the whole point of Sims being there was to cross the medical/science experts. I was surprised when it was Baez today.

This is so very odd to me too. I think another poster nailed it about this going in the law books and Baez wanting to do the cross. There was no good reason for Baez to do cross over DCS.

DCS is the expert at crossing scientific witnesses. She would not have fumbled the names, spelling, etc. She wouldn't have come up with so many object-sustained questions. It feels like she is doing all the work and he is getting all the er... glory..? Well he would but for the part where he cannot deliver the lines well and can't react quickly to unforeseen answers like she could have.

I also have to wonder if DCS is happy about this?

Liz
06-06-2011, 05:54 PM
bobkealing tweeted:

Should have sheriffs cadavor dog handlers in short order to confirm positive hits on trunk and Anthony home.
3 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone

Cherry Baby
06-06-2011, 05:54 PM
That's great! I recently heard that kids no longer dissect real frogs in school, is that true?

This is true. They use pigs.

LyndyLoo
06-06-2011, 05:54 PM
Whoa..Just thought I could pop back in to say and remind peeps..that Dr. Vass is no verteran testifying expert..IIRC this is the first time he has ever testified in a courtroom..and his ability to withstand such a convoluting cross just proved the intelligence, expertise of this man (Dr. Vass)..He did this NOT for money..and certainly was NOT a PAID EXPERT..but a True Scientist testifying to his work,results and findings and quite capable to deflecting suggestions of faulty protocols, methodology and most..Findings were NOT "bought and paid for" by anybody..

Dr. Vass is one wonderful, unsullied man who not only loves what he does ( almost childlike when recounting his works :innocent:)..but would never ever compromise it for profit..JMO

Dr. Vass, on behalf of Caylee and all those who wish for justice here..TY TY TY!!..You Rock!!:great:

Eidetic
06-06-2011, 05:55 PM
Has anyone figured out what they would be able to eat for dinner tonight?
I thought I had it nailed down with Jell-o ,but then thinking about the texture....

Any ideas? Shall we just start fasting now?

Vegetable fajitas with guacamole, corn on the cob and a side of spanish rice :great:

ami
06-06-2011, 05:58 PM
But you have to judge each individual technique on it's own merits. That is based on the research and protocols which buttress any relatively new technique.

If I were a juror I would find Casey's own words to be the main reason I would be strongly leaning toward guilt at this point. I just haven't heard anything that definitively says there was a dead body in the trunk (although I believe there was as merely a trial watcher who does not have the weight of deciding justice on my shoulders). I would discount the tow yard worker's testimony because his credentials were vague. I would question George's testimony because he didn't immediately call 911 for whatever reason. And, as I have posted today, I would have reservations about Vass' testimony. I believe there was also a forensic technician of some sort who also testified about decomposition but I can't judge his testimony because I wasn't able to pay attention to it.

CF, I would agree with you, except GCMS isn't a new technique.

Heck, 10 years ago I worked for a flavors and fragrance company. They would collect odors on charcoal, take them back to the lab, break them down, get chem composition and store it away for future use. (I didn't do that for them, because I am not a chemist!! ;)) And it wasn't a new technique then. Compare, subtract background, what's left is the signature.

I honestly don't see what Vass was doing (or his colleagues were doing) that was new or untested, except the samples themselves were unique and the method he helped invent that collected some of the trial samples.

The adipocere to me presented a problem as a stand-alone, simply because they haven't identified any 'signature' in it that would determine its origin or link it to humans specifically. So to me Baez best argument would have been to focus more on that, and not on "could it have come from a chicken", because that sounds ridiculous.

eaglemom
06-06-2011, 05:58 PM
That's great! I recently heard that kids no longer dissect real frogs in school, is that true?

I am in CA - my daughter is in high school and she did a cat and a piglet this year in anatomy....

Turnadot
06-06-2011, 05:58 PM
But guys, guys listen....is Dr Vass a chemist?

strawberry
06-06-2011, 05:58 PM
Does anyone know the link to watch Nancy Grace online later?

Nali87
06-06-2011, 05:59 PM
Well here is the thing about circumstantial evidence. You have multiple witnesses with experience in smelling decomp testify that they smelled decomp. Next you have the grave wax, air analysis, cadaver dog hits (not in evidence as of yet). It's not that any one of those definitively says a dead body was in the car. It's the whole picture and when you place that evidence together with one another that it eliminates any other possible answer. The only conclusion from looking at all of those together is that there was indeed a dead body in the trunk imo.

I really wish the SA could let the jury smell those sealed cans.

You said it perfectly! And didn't she just leave her car parked somewhere unattended for days? Theorizing here: her friends and her boyfriend had cars. Any of them could've went with her to re-fill her gastank. But no, Casey knew about the foul smell coming from inside the trunk. So she dumped the car, hoping someone would steal it, so she could blame it all on them..

magnolia
06-06-2011, 06:00 PM
I thought the whole point of Sims being there was to cross the medical/science experts. I was surprised when it was Baez today.

Surprise! Surprise! I think Sims just wants to be able to say she was part of the Casey A. defense team. I don't understand why E. Fryer (?) is there either.

Emeralgem
06-06-2011, 06:01 PM
Despite JB's claims that Dr. Vass isn't a chemist, I would think a Forensic Anthropologist would have studied chemistry and physics in order to obtain a Phd. in their field of expertise...JMHO

chasing.halos
06-06-2011, 06:01 PM
My favorite quote of the day: "You have never studied that because of course, you haven't studied that." -Jose Baez

LancelotLink
06-06-2011, 06:02 PM
Watching the body language of Baez today (when doing cross or not) was just spellbinding, he was so angry at one stage he was trying to write and couldn't even get the words together, he was also continuously hovering over that mic button as if he was a contestant in a game show.

The defense can't go on like this - a human beings life is on the line and Mason needs to step up and tell Baez that he is tap dancing his client all the way into a death sentence. As funny as watching Baez is someone needs to take control otherwise a complete mockery is being made of the justice system.

I noticed this as well. I loved it! His only friend seemed to be his pen click. He was beside himself!
I watched yesterday as he was so mad he left the courtroom in a huff, young master Wm trailing in his wake.

PassTheMotrin
06-06-2011, 06:03 PM
bobkealing tweeted:

Should have sheriffs cadavor dog handlers in short order to confirm positive hits on trunk and Anthony home.
3 minutes ago via Twitter for iPhone

Hopefully, first thing tomorrow morning.

LancelotLink
06-06-2011, 06:04 PM
Surprise! Surprise! I think Sims just wants to be able to say she was part of the Casey A. defense team. I don't understand why E. Fryer (?) is there either.

Was Mason there?

The Eunice Burns
06-06-2011, 06:04 PM
Well, I'm going to go and watch some of today's highlights. BTW, does PattyG do any vids of a "Best Of" type? Today's testimony would be great for that! Sort of a Best of Johnny Carson, except this would be Best of Baez. Not that I'm in anyway comparing Johnny and Jose, mind you.....

Turnadot
06-06-2011, 06:04 PM
My favorite quote of the day: "You have never studied that because of course, you haven't studied that." -Jose Baez
Redundant lawyer is redundant.

Turnadot
06-06-2011, 06:05 PM
Was Mason there?
He was.

milliac
06-06-2011, 06:06 PM
Wow, the chloroform testimony of Dr. Vass is going to the cause of death. This is big. What does "manufactured chloroform" mean to this case? Did Casey buy/steal already made chloroform? It sounds like it was used more than once. Shocking.

I agree. They are totally laying the foundation for the computer forensics witness regarding the searches on the computer.

Turnadot
06-06-2011, 06:09 PM
Well, my own "mock juror", my sister said she loved Dr Vass and found him compelling and brilliant and Baez's attempts to discredit Dr Vass fell on deaf ears. She got frustrated with Baez's long-winded cross because she had already decided Dr Vass knows his stuff, so Baez was wasting her time.

I hope the jury also found Dr Vass brilliant and compelling.

ami
06-06-2011, 06:10 PM
You said it perfectly! And didn't she just leave her car parked somewhere unattended for days? Theorizing here: her friends and her boyfriend had cars. Any of them could've went with her to re-fill her gastank. But no, Casey knew about the foul smell coming from inside the trunk. So she dumped the car, hoping someone would steal it, so she could blame it all on them..


I guess I don't understand why they don't let them smell the cans. I mean they showed chromatograms, video tapes, pictures (visual evidence). They played tapes of phone calls (auditory evidence). Smell, touch and taste based evidence are out though?

It's kind of an interesting thought, actually.

Marina2
06-06-2011, 06:10 PM
I thought the whole point of Sims being there was to cross the medical/science experts. I was surprised when it was Baez today.

It probably surprised her too when Baez told her "No, you're not going to speak at all; you're just going to tell me what to ask."

There's definitely some tension going on between Sims, Baez, and KC.

Nore
06-06-2011, 06:13 PM
But guys, guys listen....is Dr Vass a chemist?

---------------
Hi Turnadot. For a good run down on everything,visit the body farm. This man has more credentials than China has rice..There is info on everything they did.
Its really a good read, I go back now and then just to refresh. :seeya:

LyndyLoo
06-06-2011, 06:13 PM
OM Goodness..On Vinnie Politan on HLN he and his guests are discussing explanations for chloroform in that trunk..hummmm DID they forget that Caylee swam and purportedly died in the Anthony pool..which DID NOT use Chlorine but another chemical altogether????..Geesh..I wish these TH's would do their homework :rocker:


And..rightfully so, at least Vinnie said.....BUT the DT's theory is Caylee wasnt even in that trunk...LOL..Me thinks DT went far too far in their opening statements...:twocents:

Nali87
06-06-2011, 06:14 PM
I guess I don't understand why they don't let them smell the cans. I mean they showed chromatograms, video tapes, pictures (visual evidence). They played tapes of phone calls (auditory evidence). Smell, touch and taste based evidence are out though?

It's kind of an interesting thought, actually.

It's a very interesting thought, I'm curious as well. I wonder if there's any jurisprudence regarding that. It's a great question for the lawyers thread.

PassTheMotrin
06-06-2011, 06:14 PM
Was Mason there?

Physically.

Turnadot
06-06-2011, 06:15 PM
---------------
Hi Turnadot. For a good run down on everything,visit the body farm. This man has more credentials than China has rice..There is info on everything they did.
Its really a good read, I go back now and then just to refresh. :seeya:
I was being facetious because Baez kept asking. Sorry I came off as serious. I love Dr Vass and respect his work very much!

whiteangora
06-06-2011, 06:17 PM
OM Goodness..On Vinnie Politan on HLN he and his guests are discussing explanations for chloroform in that trunk..hummmm DID they forget that Caylee swam and purportedly died in the Anthony pool..which DID NOT use Chlorine but another chemical altogether????..Geesh..I wish these TH's would do their homework :rocker:


And..rightfully so, at least Vinnie said.....BUT the DT's theory is Caylee wasnt even in that trunk...LOL..Me thinks DT went far too far in their opening statements...:twocents:

The defense is cooked, thoroughly. They can't claim that George put the body in the trunk now because of the astronomical levels of chloroform. We know it did not come from the pool so that just leaves one person. surprise surprise.

Sleuths4Me
06-06-2011, 06:18 PM
Redundant lawyer is redundant.

I keep thinking of "Legally Blonde" where Reese Witherspoon keeps saying "you didn't hear the gunshot because you were in the shower washing your hair, you were washing your hair so you didn't hear the gunshot?" :floorlaugh:

mydailyopinions
06-06-2011, 06:18 PM
Somehow I missed that there were Home Depot videos that the State has apparently held back from discovery, with what I assume to be no objection from the defense. As much as I enjoyed watching Vass put a hurting on the defense today, I am more curious about these Home Depot Videos!

sorrell skye
06-06-2011, 06:18 PM
"A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet..." ~ William Shakespeare

Who here thinks that a rose would smell like pizza, or raw hamburger, or garbage, or maryjane, or ...?

Who here thinks that an expert (with 2+ decades of olfactory experience) in the odor of human decomposition would mistake the odor of a rose, or pizza, or raw hamburger, or garbage, or maryjane, for the "unique" odor of human decomposition?

I vote: No Way.

Miaa
06-06-2011, 06:19 PM
Physically.

:floorlaugh:

fifteen89
06-06-2011, 06:19 PM
Watching IS....someone just said she can see Vass selling his machine to cops after how well he did today - with it being his first time testifying. I don't see him selling anything. He's the guy behind the research. jmo

On another topic - is LKB calling around for someplace to appear every day? Can these shows decline her offer?

angeldust
06-06-2011, 06:20 PM
Im actually embarassed for JB every time I think of him, screeching in court in his OS, WHAT DID YOU DO? (CA s words) I can see ica mimicking those exact words back to him at the end of this fiasco... the apple truely will not have fallen far from the cart...

Emeralgem
06-06-2011, 06:20 PM
---------------
Hi Turnadot. For a good run down on everything,visit the body farm. This man has more credentials than China has rice..There is info on everything they did.
Its really a good read, I go back now and then just to refresh. :seeya:

Do you have a link? TYIA

whiteangora
06-06-2011, 06:20 PM
I guess I don't understand why they don't let them smell the cans. I mean they showed chromatograms, video tapes, pictures (visual evidence). They played tapes of phone calls (auditory evidence). Smell, touch and taste based evidence are out though?

It's kind of an interesting thought, actually.

Judge Perry had stated that "Jurors are not witnesses", I agree.
The jury doesn't really need to smell anything, I think they got the message loud and clear today from the Man of the Week, Dr Vass.

marspiter
06-06-2011, 06:20 PM
"A rose by any other name would still smell as sweet..." ~ William Shakespeare

Who here thinks that a rose would smell like pizza, or raw hamburger, or garbage, or maryjane, or ...?

Who here thinks that an expert (with 2+ decades of olfactory experience) in the odor of human decomposition would mistake the odor of a rose, or pizza, or raw hamburger, or garbage, or maryjane, for the "unique" odor of human decomposition?

I vote: No Way.

I think it would depend. In your hypothetical would this expert be a chemist? :innocent:

2goldfish
06-06-2011, 06:21 PM
gosh dont we have a thread for support love and adoration of dr vass??? I'd make one but I fear the mods believe I have overdone my hyperbole for the good doctor! :heartluv:


dear dr vass if you ever read here, I'm your biggest fan!! I know hungarian too! :biglaugh:

kathyn2
06-06-2011, 06:22 PM
I always knew KC was chloroforming Caylee in the trunk of the car, drugging her etc and one time she OD's her. Thats why she is claiming she drowned by accident. She knows she would never get out of prison by saying she OD'd the baby by accident and she can't tell anyone that ever.



Yes. This is uncontroverted expert testimony on these issues. It is evidence. Manufactured chloroform was used repeatedly and built up in the tiny body in the trunk over time. When I put that evidence to the real life of what happened, my heart hurts for Caylee. IF ICA didn't want her she could have given her up for adoption.

3doglady
06-06-2011, 06:22 PM
When Dr. Vass was testifying about the high levels of chloroform in the trunk as a result of exposure to manufactured chloroform "over time", was he referring to the closed trunk for 31 days or multiple exposures over time? I wish that had been clarified.

tlcya
06-06-2011, 06:23 PM
I guess I don't understand why they don't let them smell the cans. I mean they showed chromatograms, video tapes, pictures (visual evidence). They played tapes of phone calls (auditory evidence). Smell, touch and taste based evidence are out though?

It's kind of an interesting thought, actually.

I actually hope they don't open the can. The jury's imagination is probably going to be far better than sticking their noses in that can anyway. Besides, the whole open the can and wave it in front of the juror's noses thing just reminds me too much of the OJ glove incident.

What if the stench is not as powerful as the jurors imagine it should be? What if it doesn't smell like what they imagine a dead body should smell like?

Too much can go wrong with that tactic IMO.

I hope the smell stays exactly where it is, in the can, and in the imagination of the juror.

Phoebeb
06-06-2011, 06:23 PM
Somehow I missed that there were Home Depot videos that the State has apparently held back from discovery, with what I assume to be no objection from the defense. As much as I enjoyed watching Vass put a hurting on the defense today, I am more curious about these Home Depot Videos!

Yeah! Where can we read about this? I keep hearing bits and pieces. Do we know what date she went? Or anything about it?

whiteangora
06-06-2011, 06:23 PM
Watching IS....someone just said she can see Vass selling his machine to cops after how well he did today - with it being his first time testifying. I don't see him selling anything. He's the guy behind the research. jmo

On another topic - is LKB calling around for someplace to appear every day? Can these shows decline her offer?

They should decline. Every time I turn around I see her on a different show. I have to wonder where she finds the time for all of the rejuvenation she is having done.:innocent:

ami
06-06-2011, 06:24 PM
Judge Perry had stated that "Jurors are not witnesses", I agree.
The jury doesn't really need to smell anything, I think they got the message loud and clear today from the Man of the Week, Dr Vass.


Right, but what about the fact that this evidence is a smell would make them "witnesses"? They aren't witnesses, yet they saw videos of her in the stores shopping, and they saw pictures of her car, and they saw a lot of other evidence - it's not like they've just been told "there is a car" and have to believe it - they were SHOWN the car. They could have just been told about ICA's conversations from jail, but they were SHOWN the conversations, allowed to experience them. And that didn't make them witnesses.

So I'm just wondering why allowing them to smell the thing people were talking about smelling would be any different than showing them things people were talking about seeing. ??

fifteen89
06-06-2011, 06:24 PM
They should decline. Every time I turn around I see her on a different show. I have to wonder where she finds the time for all of the rejuvenation she is having done.:innocent:

Rejuvenation. LOL!!

Nali87
06-06-2011, 06:25 PM
Question you guys: If I'm not mistakes, Caylee was wrapped in a Winnie the Pooh blanket right? If I recall, Linda made a huge point of stressing that her room had a Winne the Pooh theme.

Intermezzo
06-06-2011, 06:25 PM
I just watched a bit of HLN with Vinnie

They were showing Ricardo's Win her over with chloroform picture and Dianna Tennis said the DT will say no one was home when 1 of the chloroform searches was conducted (IMO.they will IMO bring in Ricardo somehow into this.He did say he went over for breakfast and the DT may accuse him of entering the A home when no one was home IMO)

Vinnie started taking about chloroform and chlorine and the pool...I guess Vinnie does not know the A's used a Chlorine-Free product in the pool...

NCEast
06-06-2011, 06:26 PM
Somehow I missed that there were Home Depot videos that the State has apparently held back from discovery, with what I assume to be no objection from the defense. As much as I enjoyed watching Vass put a hurting on the defense today, I am more curious about these Home Depot Videos!

I hope somebody provides a link for the Home Depot vids.
ALSO, I had to miss most of Dr. Vass' testimony today. Could somebody please post the link for where I can watch the video of today's proceedings? I thought I had it bookmarked but can't seem to find it. Thank you!

fifteen89
06-06-2011, 06:28 PM
Uh oh. I shouldn't have brought up LKB. Vinnie just said she's up next. He actually got cut off by the commercial.....he only got out LK. Time to walk the dog.

marspiter
06-06-2011, 06:29 PM
I hope somebody provides a link for the Home Depot vids.
ALSO, I had to miss most of Dr. Vass' testimony today. Could somebody please post the link for where I can watch the video of today's proceedings? I thought I had it bookmarked but can't seem to find it. Thank you!

wftv should have it.

sorrell skye
06-06-2011, 06:29 PM
I think it would depend. In your hypothetical would this expert be a chemist? :innocent:

LOL! I'm not a chemist, either, but I must say that I prefer the fragrance of BVLGARI perfumes to the stench of decomposing human flesh. :)

whiteangora
06-06-2011, 06:30 PM
Right, but what about the fact that this evidence is a smell would make them "witnesses"? They aren't witnesses, yet they saw videos of her in the stores shopping, and they saw pictures of her car, and they saw a lot of other evidence - it's not like they've just been told "there is a car" and have to believe it - they were SHOWN the car. They could have just been told about ICA's conversations from jail, but they were SHOWN the conversations, allowed to experience them. And that didn't make them witnesses.

So I'm just wondering why allowing them to smell the thing people were talking about smelling would be any different than showing them things people were talking about seeing. ??

it's just too subjective, imo. Most of the jurors may have never even smelled decomp before so they really would not be qualified and have nothing to compare it to. It could do more harm than good. moo

Nali87
06-06-2011, 06:31 PM
I hope somebody provides a link for the Home Depot vids.
ALSO, I had to miss most of Dr. Vass' testimony today. Could somebody please post the link for where I can watch the video of today's proceedings? I thought I had it bookmarked but can't seem to find it. Thank you!

I used to watch them on YouTube http://www.youtube.com/user/Sierra1947#p/c/55A99D67ECCC4859/0/oZLvWqk01Jg

PassTheMotrin
06-06-2011, 06:31 PM
I always knew KC was chloroforming Caylee in the trunk of the car, drugging her etc and one time she OD's her. Thats why she is claiming she drowned by accident. She knows she would never get out of prison by saying she OD'd the baby by accident and she can't tell anyone that ever.

I always thought that, too, starting with good ole Xanax. Also known on the street as "bars" or "zannies." The non-prescription version are supposedly made using horse tranquilizers.

3doglady
06-06-2011, 06:31 PM
I hope somebody provides a link for the Home Depot vids.
ALSO, I had to miss most of Dr. Vass' testimony today. Could somebody please post the link for where I can watch the video of today's proceedings? I thought I had it bookmarked but can't seem to find it. Thank you!

DR Vass http://www.wftv.com/video/28143065/index.html

The home depot videos have not been released to the public. Not sure if the SA did not release it or if the media did not publish it.

Themis
06-06-2011, 06:32 PM
Question you guys: If I'm not mistakes, Caylee was wrapped in a Winnie the Pooh blanket right? If I recall, Linda made a huge point of stressing that her room had a Winne the Pooh theme.
Yes to both.

Softail
06-06-2011, 06:32 PM
For those that missed today's spelling lesson - It can be found starting at about 6:04

At about 15:27 is where Dr. Vass talks about eating a hamburger with a bag over your head!

http://www.wftv.com/video/28148693//index.html

Nali87
06-06-2011, 06:32 PM
it's just too subjective, imo. Most of the jurors may have never even smelled decomp before so they really would not be qualified and have nothing to compare it to. It could do more harm than good. moo

Oh that's a good point! God forbid they think it's just the smell of rotten meat. That's a good point, I never thought about it like that.

Turnadot
06-06-2011, 06:33 PM
Im actually embarassed for JB every time I think of him, screeching in court in his OS, WHAT DID YOU DO? (CA s words) I can see ica mimicking those exact words back to him at the end of this fiasco... the apple truely will not have fallen far from the cart...
Baez's opening statement was a promise to the jury he can't keep. When writing a mystery novel, the writer is making a promise to the reader: you will find a mystery here. If the pages are filled instead with the romance of Regency England, then the writer has lied to the reader and they won't trust the writer and probably won't bother finishing the book.

The jury won't trust Baez when he puts on KC's defense because during cross, it's obvious he is flailing, grasping at straws.

My opinion...

mydailyopinions
06-06-2011, 06:34 PM
I hope somebody provides a link for the Home Depot vids.
ALSO, I had to miss most of Dr. Vass' testimony today. Could somebody please post the link for where I can watch the video of today's proceedings? I thought I had it bookmarked but can't seem to find it. Thank you!

WFTV normally has the video's up by the evening.
http://www.wftv.com/index.html

I am looking for the motion now, it is here somewhere:waitasec: for the list of videos that the state intends to use during trial..give me just a few to find it. ETA:

Videos:http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6312408&postcount=270

fifteen89
06-06-2011, 06:36 PM
I didn't make it out the door quickly enough. Someone needs to tell LKB that she needs to look at ALL the evidence in this case. Not just the testimony of Vass today. Even if she believes he should be completely discredited....it's only one piece of the incriminating puzzle.

everyoneneedsavoice
06-06-2011, 06:36 PM
LOL! I'm not a chemist, either, but I must say that I prefer the fragrance of BVLGARI perfumes to the stench of decomposing human flesh. :)

BBM

LOL! ITA...Purple Amethyst please!

Themis
06-06-2011, 06:36 PM
When Dr. Vass was testifying about the high levels of chloroform in the trunk as a result of exposure to manufactured chloroform "over time", was he referring to the closed trunk for 31 days or multiple exposures over time? I wish that had been clarified.
IIRC the comparison was to floride in municiple water supplies. The body would test for floride that had built up over time because of long term, multiple consumption of the water -- not a single use that had aged.

LyndyLoo
06-06-2011, 06:37 PM
Goodness gracious..LKB stating in most explative fashion..she is underwhelmed by Dr. Vass's testimony....I really have to LOL because she would be the first person to grasp onto his studies and testimony IF she ever (in the future) needs that to prove HER CLIENT innocent...NOW that's where I find her blabbering as a TH so advocate oriented..IT has NOTHING to do with the science...

LKB has just proven her agenda....Bless her..she (as a defense attny) doesnt know better :floorlaugh:

Betty Boop
06-06-2011, 06:38 PM
Right, but what about the fact that this evidence is a smell would make them "witnesses"? They aren't witnesses, yet they saw videos of her in the stores shopping, and they saw pictures of her car, and they saw a lot of other evidence - it's not like they've just been told "there is a car" and have to believe it - they were SHOWN the car. They could have just been told about ICA's conversations from jail, but they were SHOWN the conversations, allowed to experience them. And that didn't make them witnesses.

So I'm just wondering why allowing them to smell the thing people were talking about smelling would be any different than showing them things people were talking about seeing. ??

The jurors in the Scott Peterson case did a "field trip" to check out SP's fishing boat. I am wondering how seeing/interacting with evidence differs from smelling it.

I'm on the fence about whether the jury should sniff the contents of the can or not. Just not sure why it makes them witnesses if going in the boat didn't.

Turnadot
06-06-2011, 06:38 PM
The FBI disagrees with LKB. 'Nuff said, IMO.

angeleleven
06-06-2011, 06:39 PM
Goodness gracious..LKB stating in most explative fashion..she is underwhelmed by Dr. Vass's testimony....I really have to LOL because she would be the first person to grasp onto his studies and testimony IF she ever (in the future) needs that to prove HER CLIENT innocent...NOW that where I find her blabbering as a TH so advocate oriented..IT has NOTHING to do with the science...

LKB has just proven her agenda....Bless her..she (as a defense attny) doesnt know better :floorlaugh:

I can't take her anymore. I have to mute her everytime she comes on a program.

Nali87
06-06-2011, 06:39 PM
Yes to both.

I thought so. Too many factors that JB just won't be able to (believably) spin, imo.

ljs713
06-06-2011, 06:41 PM
I always knew KC was chloroforming Caylee in the trunk of the car, drugging her etc and one time she OD's her. Thats why she is claiming she drowned by accident. She knows she would never get out of prison by saying she OD'd the baby by accident and she can't tell anyone that ever.

I totally believe this to be the truth and it just makes me sick. That poor precious child. My heart bleeeeeeds for poor Caylee. Casey deserves the DP and I can't say I am a big fan of it, but it definately applies to anyone that hurts an innocent child.

cluciano63
06-06-2011, 06:41 PM
Judge Perry had stated that "Jurors are not witnesses", I agree.
The jury doesn't really need to smell anything, I think they got the message loud and clear today from the Man of the Week, Dr Vass.

I don't think there is any reason for jurors to smell the samples. They can't even give a non-scientific opinion as to what they are smelling, most likely just that it is a horrible smell and one they are not familiar with. That does not make it decomp automatically, they have to decide that from others.

adnoid
06-06-2011, 06:41 PM
Is anybody else having problems with WS today? I cannot get it to load...been locked out about 4 hours now.

I have seen no load spikes today, but I'll check the logs. I had no trouble all day from my office.

3doglady
06-06-2011, 06:41 PM
IIRC the comparison was to floride in municiple water supplies. The body would test for floride that had built up over time because of long term, multiple consumption of the water -- not a single use that had aged.

Ok I missed the comparison. I need to go back and listen. I thought Dr. Vass was explaining why fluoride which is usually found in decomposing bodies would not be found in a child.

thedeviledadvocate
06-06-2011, 06:42 PM
I was very disappointed that Dr. V did not give a possible explanation for the shockingly high amounts of chloroform in his results. I was equally disappointed that neither JB or JA asked him what could possibly explain the high amounts of chloroform in his results.

As far as I know, I was under the impression that chloroform quickly dissipates in a similar way to gasoline. I would have thought that even if someone poured a bottle of chloroform in the trunk that after a few weeks, if not much sooner that the chloroform would be gone. The trunk was opened many times for many hours prior to the taking of the air samples. I don't understand how a shockingly high amount of chloroform could still show up in his results. It seems to me that there is something wrong there. I guess that JA and JB did not ask what could have caused a shockingly high level of chloroform in Dr. V's results because neither of them knew what the answer might be.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

spiderlady
06-06-2011, 06:42 PM
So I must have missed a bunch of good stuff while waiting on all those pesky patients. Okay...I know they are sick and need to see the Doc but REALLY?? The trial is on!!!! Just kidding. They did come first......so what is this about the home depot visits. Anyone willing to help out a hardworking public servant and update me a bit? I'LL luv you forever!!

fifteen89
06-06-2011, 06:43 PM
I'd love Vinnie to ask LKB to use her own discrediting criteria against Casey. I mean seriously? She doesn't believe Vass can recognize the smell of human decomposition but she believes JB's theory that Caylee drowned, Casey was sexually abused by George and Lee, and George somehow convinced Casey it would be better to be accused of murder than to admit her daughter accidentally drowned. Seriously? Seriously?

ljs713
06-06-2011, 06:43 PM
I totally believe this to be the truth and it just makes me sick. That poor precious child. My heart bleeeeeeds for poor Caylee. Casey deserves the DP and I can't say I am a big fan of it, but it definately applies to anyone that hurts an innocent child.

I had to add to this post. My only hope and prayer is that Caylee died when she was asleep and none of us will ever know but I pray with all my heart that this was the case.

3doglady
06-06-2011, 06:44 PM
I have seen no load spikes today, but I'll check the logs. I had no trouble all day from my office.

I was kicked off for a short time this afternoon. When I go back on, there were 1187 on this forum. Thanks for the awesome job you do.

Intermezzo
06-06-2011, 06:44 PM
Judge Perry had stated that "Jurors are not witnesses", I agree.
The jury doesn't really need to smell anything, I think they got the message loud and clear today from the Man of the Week, Dr Vass.

There is at least 1 juror who has smelled Decomp before..and can explain it to the others..

There are a few other jurors who are in the medical field..but I don't remember if they had smelled decomp before

Themis
06-06-2011, 06:45 PM
Ok I missed the comparison. I need to go back and listen. I thought Dr. Vass was explaining why fluoride which is usually found in decomposing bodies would not be found in a child.
I'll go re-listen too.

Camille
06-06-2011, 06:47 PM
When Dr. Vass was testifying about the high levels of chloroform in the trunk as a result of exposure to manufactured chloroform "over time", was he referring to the closed trunk for 31 days or multiple exposures over time? I wish that had been clarified.

I really wanted that clarified as well because I took it to mean that the trunk of the car had to have been subjected to chloroform multiple times in order to put off levels that high. Because Chloroform does evaporate and so one instance of it having been in the trunk there wouldn't have been enough time for there to be that high of a level there.

mfcmom
06-06-2011, 06:48 PM
What is the reference to Home Depot is someone here just speculating or is that fact? Thanks in advance.

Mountain_Kat
06-06-2011, 06:49 PM
I don't think there is any reason for jurors to smell the samples. They can't even give a non-scientific opinion as to what they are smelling, most likely just that it is a horrible smell and one they are not familiar with. That does not make it decomp automatically, they have to decide that from others.

ITA. And I don't think it's neccesary for the state to do so, either. They have been rock solid in presenting their case, thus far. That kind of risky "gotcha" isn't needed here, imo.

3doglady
06-06-2011, 06:49 PM
I'll go re-listen too.

I was listening to HLN and TRU. They cut to commercials at the worst times.

marspiter
06-06-2011, 06:49 PM
I was very disappointed that Dr. V did not give a possible explanation for the shockingly high amounts of chloroform in his results. I was equally disappointed that neither JB or JA asked him what could possibly explain the high amounts of chloroform in his results.

As far as I know, I was under the impression that chloroform quickly dissipates in a similar way to gasoline. I would have thought that even if someone poured a bottle of chloroform in the trunk that after a few weeks, if not much sooner that the chloroform would be gone. The trunk was opened many times for many hours prior to the taking of the air samples. I don't understand how a shockingly high amount of chloroform could still show up in his results. It seems to me that there is something wrong there. I guess that JA and JB did not ask what could have caused a shockingly high level of chloroform in Dr. V's results because neither of them knew what the answer might be.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

Because it would be pure speculation imho.

LyndyLoo
06-06-2011, 06:49 PM
I can't take her anymore. I have to mute her everytime she comes on a program.

The only reason I mentioned it was because LKB who is yet to be involved in future cases will no doubtuse this witness/testimony..and I'd bet my bottom dollar she will use this in some sort of defense of a client in the future..and that is why I LOL at her protestations.....far too much in my book....:floorlaugh:

the old saying "Doth Protest Too Much" comes to mind:rocker:

BTW..we still havent heard the Chloroform evidence in regard to searches and NO CHlorine used in the ANTHONY pool..Sooooo what would that tell a juror IF DT continues on the avenue???? Never mind the DT does NOT contend Caylee's body was ever in that trunk:banghead:

ZsaZsa
06-06-2011, 06:50 PM
Goodness gracious..LKB stating in most explative fashion..she is underwhelmed by Dr. Vass's testimony....I really have to LOL because she would be the first person to grasp onto his studies and testimony IF she ever (in the future) needs that to prove HER CLIENT innocent...NOW that's where I find her blabbering as a TH so advocate oriented..IT has NOTHING to do with the science...

LKB has just proven her agenda....Bless her..she (as a defense attny) doesnt know better :floorlaugh:

She's just another bottom feeder; she does know better. She lies with the same ease as JB.

faefrost
06-06-2011, 06:50 PM
I could not help but think about the pioneer scientists and researchers during this testimony and wonder if Benjamin Franklin would have been questioned in such a manner when he discovered electricity.:floorlaugh:

I think JB would have grilled him heavily on "what flavor is it"?

gelfie68
06-06-2011, 06:50 PM
I have seen no load spikes today, but I'll check the logs. I had no trouble all day from my office.

But, are you a chemist?

grandmaj
06-06-2011, 06:51 PM
Linda K. Baden must think we have a short memory. This is what her husband said in October of 2008.


snip:
Among the results is confirmation that a hair sample found in the vehicle "exhibits characteristics of apparent decomposition." The report also says that specific hair is "microscopically similar" to hair investigators took from Caylee's hairbrush.

"The hair found in the trunk establishes that Caylee's dead and that her dead body was in the trunk of the car. Even if they don't find the body, it's enough evidence, scientific evidence, to establish that she's dead," said Dr. Michael Baden, nationally-renowned forensic pathologist.

DNA testing done on that piece of hair and compared with a sample provided by Casey confirmed that neither Casey nor Caylee can be "excluded as the source of the hair," because the "mtDNA sequences ... are the same."

More about chloroform........ Dr. Baden weighed in on that too. Snipped for copyright.

http://www.wftv.com/news/17793661/detail.html

mydailyopinions
06-06-2011, 06:54 PM
What is the reference to Home Depot is someone here just speculating or is that fact? Thanks in advance.

The list of videos that the State intends to use during trial :
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6312408&postcount=270

There are a few of these that have not been released to the public, and it is speculation that Casey may have been caught buying something very damning to this case.

ColdDayIn
06-06-2011, 06:54 PM
ITA. And I don't think it's neccesary for the state to do so, either. They have been rock solid in presenting their case, thus far. That kind of risky "gotcha" isn't needed here, imo.

I think it would be effective for shock value. I could see the juror's smelling the decomp and the smell of course sticking with them throughout the whole entire trial, and every time one of them might hesitate on voting guilty, they can just think of the decomp smell and remember where it came from. JMO

MADJGNLAW
06-06-2011, 06:55 PM
I totally believe this to be the truth and it just makes me sick. That poor precious child. My heart bleeeeeeds for poor Caylee. Casey deserves the DP and I can't say I am a big fan of it, but it definately applies to anyone that hurts an innocent child.

I to had thought about that being a possibility, only problem is that Casey applied duct tape to Caylee's nose and mouth from what is being said. If she were trying to just put Caylee to sleep so she could party I may buy into the accidentally OD' on chloroform. But why the use of Duct Tape? I also thought that there was a hair on the duct tape that did not have a death band, if so that means Caylee was still alive when the duct tape was placed over her nose and mouth. Which means she would of been some what conscious I would think. At least that is how I understood it being explained on Saturday's hearing in the AM. 1 hair in the trunk with the death band, and 1 hair on the duct tape with no death band. Anyone else recall Lowe explain this? I could be misunderstanding everything though..Baez has thrown me for a big loop with all his yadda yadda yaddaa to put it nicely. :maddening:

I just pray and hope that how ever Caylee died, she did so with no pain at all, but in my gut the way Ashton explained it...she had to of seen Casey one more time while Casey was applying that duct tape. :(:tears::tears::tears:

adnoid
06-06-2011, 06:56 PM
Have we exhausted the subject of the wikipedia edits from a florida IP address during the trial lunch hour yet?

There have been a bunch more since I checked it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arpad_Vass&action=history

Note that the times are UTC, it's about 2300 UTC when I'm making this post:

Coordinated Universal Time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Leapsecond.ut1-utc.svg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Leapsecond.ut1-utc.svg/250px-Leapsecond.ut1-utc.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/f/fb/Leapsecond.ut1-utc.svg/250px-Leapsecond.ut1-utc.svg.png

Niner
06-06-2011, 06:56 PM
WOW, this is unreal - !! Just counted up the sidebars and objections from JUST this morning - JA with Dr. Vass, with JB objecting!

It is 4 sidebars - 2 before the morning break (~10:30am)

27 objections!! only 2 sustained; 11 objections before the morning break ! about 10:30am
after break, with the jury out, 3 objections... :fence:

mydailyopinions
06-06-2011, 06:57 PM
I to had thought about that being a possibility, only problem is that Casey applied duct tape to Caylee's nose and mouth from what is being said. If she were trying to just put Caylee to sleep so she could party I may buy into the accidentally OD' on chloroform. But why the use of Duct Tape? I also thought that there was a hair on the duct tape that did not have a death band, if so that means Caylee was still alive when the duct tape was placed over her nose and mouth. Which means she would of been some what conscious I would think. At least that is how I understood it being explained on Saturday's hearing in the AM. 1 hair in the trunk with the death band, and 1 hair on the duct tape with no death band. Anyone else recall Lowe explain this? I could be misunderstanding everything though..Baez has thrown me for a big loop with all his yadda yadda yaddaa to put it nicely. :maddening:

I just pray and hope that how ever Caylee died, she did so with no pain at all, but in my gut the way Ashton explained it...she had to of seen Casey one more time while Casey was applying that duct tape. :(:tears::tears::tears:

To keep her screams from being heard from the trunk if in fact she woke up. JMHO

faefrost
06-06-2011, 06:58 PM
Goodness gracious..LKB stating in most explative fashion..she is underwhelmed by Dr. Vass's testimony....I really have to LOL because she would be the first person to grasp onto his studies and testimony IF she ever (in the future) needs that to prove HER CLIENT innocent...NOW that's where I find her blabbering as a TH so advocate oriented..IT has NOTHING to do with the science...

LKB has just proven her agenda....Bless her..she (as a defense attny) doesnt know better :floorlaugh:

Of course she is underwhelmed. She is the one that wrote the questions and notes for attacking Dr. Vass and the air sampling testing. She did this back when she was a member of the defense team, years ago. JB being JB never seems to update a plan as the situation changes. Even when he himself is the one changing the situation. With the exception of his bizarre tale during his opening statements I think all of the other real law and cross we have seen from him throughout this case is mainly from theories or strategies floated by other members of the defense team from before Caylee's remains were found.

I mean Hamburger? Potato's? HELLO EARTH TO JB!!!! They didn't find meat and potato's! They did however find a dead child! This is not rocket science and it is not a point the jury is likely to get confused about.

kaki
06-06-2011, 06:58 PM
Wonder why the DT is fighting the body in the trunk so much? In their "scenario" someone had to transport Caylee's body from the Anthony's backyard to the woods... maybe this is where Roy Kronk comes into the "story".

adnoid
06-06-2011, 06:59 PM
But, are you a chemist?

Ask me again. And again.

Then object to your own question just for fun.

Cherry Ames
06-06-2011, 06:59 PM
His parents are Hungarian immigrants. Gives you faith and belief in the American Dream!!!! Go Dr. Vass!

One of the very best dreams, ever! Yeah USA!

Nali87
06-06-2011, 06:59 PM
I was very disappointed that Dr. V did not give a possible explanation for the shockingly high amounts of chloroform in his results. I was equally disappointed that neither JB or JA asked him what could possibly explain the high amounts of chloroform in his results.

As far as I know, I was under the impression that chloroform quickly dissipates in a similar way to gasoline. I would have thought that even if someone poured a bottle of chloroform in the trunk that after a few weeks, if not much sooner that the chloroform would be gone. The trunk was opened many times for many hours prior to the taking of the air samples. I don't understand how a shockingly high amount of chloroform could still show up in his results. It seems to me that there is something wrong there. I guess that JA and JB did not ask what could have caused a shockingly high level of chloroform in Dr. V's results because neither of them knew what the answer might be.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

I think they both considered it as a given. "Chloroform evaporates very quickly when exposed to air. Chloroform also dissolves easily in water, but does not stick to the soil very well. This means that it can travel down through soil to groundwater where it can enter a water supply. Chloroform lasts for a long time in both the air and in groundwater. Most chloroform in the air eventually breaks down, but this process is slow. The breakdown products in air include phosgene, which is more toxic than chloroform, and hydrogen chloride, which is also toxic."
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/phs/phs.asp?id=51&tid=16

"Long" is according to this site many years for groundwater, doesn't mention how long precisely for air or other surfaces like carpet though.
http://www.dhs.wisconsin.gov/eh/chemfs/fs/chloroform.htm

IMA and Harmony give great additional information on page 40 and 41. It seems that chloroform evaporates slower in the dark as well.

Emeralgem
06-06-2011, 06:59 PM
I always knew KC was chloroforming Caylee in the trunk of the car, drugging her etc and one time she OD's her. Thats why she is claiming she drowned by accident. She knows she would never get out of prison by saying she OD'd the baby by accident and she can't tell anyone that ever.

I totally agree she will never admit to being the monster she really is...

WholeLottaRosie
06-06-2011, 07:01 PM
I just looked and it stated it was last changed June 6,2011 at 18:41

I looked at it earlier this morning and it showed a last edit date in April 2011. (For some reason I always look, LOL). I SWEAR or AFFIRM no bio chemist listed!

But, here's something that strikes me as interesting. No Wiki for Jose Baez at all.

Miaa
06-06-2011, 07:03 PM
I looked at it earlier this morning and it showed a last edit date in April 2011. (For some reason I always look, LOL). I SWEAR or AFFIRM no bio chemist listed!

But, here's something that strikes me as interesting. No Wiki for Jose Baez at all.

Hi Rosie. What am I missing? ;)
Do you think Baez should have a wiki? tia

milliac
06-06-2011, 07:04 PM
The list of videos that the State intends to use during trial :
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6312408&postcount=270

There are a few of these that have not been released to the public, and it is speculation that Casey may have been caught buying something very damning to this case.

Thanks for that list, I hadn't seen that before:

24. CD-R - Home Depot Video, 5-23-08, 6-29-08, 7-5-08
25. CD-R - Home Depot Video, 5-29-08


I also noticed this on the list. Is this when ICA, Caylee and TonE had lunch? I wonder have they have little Caylee on video.


14. CD-R - Cheesecake Factory Rest Video, 6-11-08
15. CD-R - Cheesecake Factory Rest Video, 6-12-08

txsvicki
06-06-2011, 07:05 PM
Why do none of the callers or experts ever have a theory that the chloroform could have had dual use. It could have been to knock Caylee out and been a way to set Casey up as a victim in an abduction or carjacking abduction. That could go along with the computer searches of making household weapons and missing kids. No one ever mentions that her MO was to make herself an elaborate victim. She's still doing now with the latest excuse.

Mountain_Kat
06-06-2011, 07:08 PM
Ask me again. And again.

Then object to your own question just for fun.

I see. And did Adnoid tell you to say that?

;)

Cherry Ames
06-06-2011, 07:12 PM
gosh dont we have a thread for support love and adoration of dr vass??? I'd make one but I fear the mods believe I have overdone my hyperbole for the good doctor! :heartluv:


dear dr vass if you ever read here, I'm your biggest fan!! I know hungarian too! :biglaugh:

Yes, but I make great goulash AND I know that Buda and Pest are two separate cities! That makes ME his biggest fan!

Miaa
06-06-2011, 07:14 PM
Why do none of the callers or experts ever have a theory that the chloroform could have had dual use. It could have been to knock Caylee out and been a way to set Casey up as a victim in an abduction or carjacking abduction. That could go along with the computer searches of making household weapons and missing kids. No one ever mentions that her MO was to make herself an elaborate victim. She's still doing now with the latest excuse.
That's a good question Txsvicki. Hopefully someone will read your post and call that question in.
ICA such the liar, drama queen and victim. :banghead:

ynotdivein
06-06-2011, 07:14 PM
I see. And did Adnoid tell you to say that?

;)

Via either iPhone or iPad, doubtless.

SummerRaye
06-06-2011, 07:14 PM
Oh geez, I started keeping track and lost count how many times JB was overruled... anyone?

I didn't read all the way through to find the answer.

But I decided that I would do a workout every time he objected and was overruled or a sidebar was caused....the workout was as follows as in...like the first time he was overruled, I did 10 squats. The next I did 10 situps, the next 10 pushups, the next 10 burpees.

By 2:00-2:30 (AND I WOKE UP LATE so started at 9:30) ((and of course missed some cause I couldn't catch my breath or feel my legs)....

I had done about 80 squats, 70 situps, 70 pushups and about 25 burpees (as i broke my ankle in January and burpees with barefeet tweek said ankle((and replaced burpees with Good Morning hamstring workouts))) and about 45 Good Mornings...

i wont be able to walk tomorrow or lift a diet coke.

RiverRat
06-06-2011, 07:15 PM
I hope that I've covered the many Thank You "Notes" here and even though it soulds like this was a day not to miss, I had to bow out of this travesty, so one last Thank You for the kind sentiments and recaps...how horrible is it to receive such tragic family news and within minutes, one's mind has no choice but to think of Casey Anthony?!

Love,
RR

ColdDayIn
06-06-2011, 07:16 PM
There have been a bunch more since I checked it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arpad_Vass&action=history

Note that the times are UTC, it's about 2300 UTC when I'm making this post:

Coordinated Universal Time - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time)

I totally missed all of this. Where is the convo about this? I checked out the link but it doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me other than I can see that the article was changed. TIA

logicalgirl
06-06-2011, 07:16 PM
They should decline. Every time I turn around I see her on a different show. I have to wonder where she finds the time for all of the rejuvenation she is having done.:innocent:

Rejuvenation! Thank You Whiteangora! That's the word I was searching around for - er um...I was referring to it as her "MacTack" work....:innocent:

mydailyopinions
06-06-2011, 07:17 PM
I didn't read all the way through to find the answer.

But I decided that I would do a workout every time he objected and was overruled or a sidebar was caused....the workout was as follows as in...like the first time he was overruled, I did 10 squats. The next I did 10 situps, the next 10 pushups, the next 10 burpees.

By 2:00-2:30 (AND I WOKE UP LATE so started at 9:30) ((and of course missed some cause I couldn't catch my breath or feel my legs)....

I had done about 80 squats, 70 situps, 70 pushups and about 25 burpees (as i broke my ankle in January and burpees with barefeet tweek said ankle((and replaced burpees with Good Morning hamstring workouts))) and about 45 Good Mornings...

i wont be able to walk tomorrow or lift a diet coke.

What a wonderful way to stay in shape through all of this! Wow! I imagine you are sore but it should be well worth it..Heck, maybe I'll join you on Tuesday and loose the (not going to say) weight that I gained since this case started!

mydailyopinions
06-06-2011, 07:20 PM
I hope that I've covered the many Thank You "Notes" here and even though it soulds like this was a day not to miss, I had to bow out of this travesty, so one last Thank You for the kind sentiments and recaps...how horrible is it to receive such tragic family news and within minutes, one's mind has no choice but to think of Casey Anthony?!

Love,
RR

:praying: for peace for you and your loved ones during this time.

ami
06-06-2011, 07:20 PM
it's just too subjective, imo. Most of the jurors may have never even smelled decomp before so they really would not be qualified and have nothing to compare it to. It could do more harm than good. moo

I hear you. But they've never seen a chromatogram (most of them?) either, and they aren't qualified to judge it, but they were shown it anyway. I'm not trying to argue or stir anything up, I'm genuinely curious about why certain types of technical or specialized evidence are shown to the jury and others aren't. I don't know much about trials or law.




I was very disappointed that Dr. V did not give a possible explanation for the shockingly high amounts of chloroform in his results. I was equally disappointed that neither JB or JA asked him what could possibly explain the high amounts of chloroform in his results.

As far as I know, I was under the impression that chloroform quickly dissipates in a similar way to gasoline. I would have thought that even if someone poured a bottle of chloroform in the trunk that after a few weeks, if not much sooner that the chloroform would be gone. The trunk was opened many times for many hours prior to the taking of the air samples. I don't understand how a shockingly high amount of chloroform could still show up in his results. It seems to me that there is something wrong there. I guess that JA and JB did not ask what could have caused a shockingly high level of chloroform in Dr. V's results because neither of them knew what the answer might be.

As always my entire post is my opinion only.

Vass explained that and was also surprised at how high the levels still were in the carpet because of its evaporative properties. I believe he said that they incubated the carpet sample to volatilize what remained to do so in the fibers according to whatever protocol they use for these studies. Alongside a carpet control. So this would be the chloroform that remained in the fibers and/or soaked into the spare tire well cover (can't recall if he tested both for chloroform).

Softail
06-06-2011, 07:22 PM
Starting at about 15:12 is toward the end of today - This portion of JB questioning Dr. Vass, is where JB is really worked up, to the point of objecting to himself (18:04 ish)! :giggle:

http://www.wftv.com/video/28149349/index.html

Niner
06-06-2011, 07:24 PM
WOW, this is unreal - !! Just counted up the sidebars and objections from JUST this morning - JA with Dr. Vass, with JB objecting!

It is 4 sidebars - 2 before the morning break (~10:30am)

27 objections!! only 2 sustained; 11 objections before the morning break ! about 10:30am
after break, with the jury out, 3 objections... :fence:

sorry to quote myself, but this might not be the correct count... I looked up wenwe4's posts, and it seems there are some parts missing... continuing TO COUNT morning's objections - could be a LOT more than I stated above... :crazy:

logicalgirl
06-06-2011, 07:24 PM
I've been checking back to see if I can catch Bill S's summary of a day in the life of...and it is usually up long before now.

I wonder if he is sitting down with his foolscap and a little stuffy pencil re-writing the (many) bits his editor crossed out with her red pen, so he can say his piece on TV. I can just see him - er no - put a line through that - that doesn't sound very professional - and er no - oh maybe that's truthful but really really mean...oh geez - who cares if he sues us - it would never stick....:waitasec:

MADJGNLAW
06-06-2011, 07:24 PM
To keep her screams from being heard from the trunk if in fact she woke up. JMHO

I could see her using the tape for the mouth, but why the nose? That is one of my big problem..why did they find duct tape over Caylee's nose/remains? To me that would mean that who ever put the tape over her nose did it with the intent to make sure the child would stop breathing IMO.

TexasLori
06-06-2011, 07:26 PM
I hope that I've covered the many Thank You "Notes" here and even though it soulds like this was a day not to miss, I had to bow out of this travesty, so one last Thank You for the kind sentiments and recaps...how horrible is it to receive such tragic family news and within minutes, one's mind has no choice but to think of Casey Anthony?!

Love,
RR

RR, I have been thinking about you all day. I started a PM for you but in the end didn't send it because nothing I said sounded right.
So I'll just say I'm sending you prayers and Texas sized hugs and I hope you can feel the love from all the people here who care. :prayer:

logicalgirl
06-06-2011, 07:27 PM
I didn't read all the way through to find the answer.

But I decided that I would do a workout every time he objected and was overruled or a sidebar was caused....the workout was as follows as in...like the first time he was overruled, I did 10 squats. The next I did 10 situps, the next 10 pushups, the next 10 burpees.

By 2:00-2:30 (AND I WOKE UP LATE so started at 9:30) ((and of course missed some cause I couldn't catch my breath or feel my legs)....

I had done about 80 squats, 70 situps, 70 pushups and about 25 burpees (as i broke my ankle in January and burpees with barefeet tweek said ankle((and replaced burpees with Good Morning hamstring workouts))) and about 45 Good Mornings...

i wont be able to walk tomorrow or lift a diet coke.

Good Heavens that's wonderful!! I would have joined you but I didn't realize Finnell was up today....:innocent:

gelfie68
06-06-2011, 07:28 PM
I see. And did Adnoid tell you to say that?

;)

Yes, but isn't it true?..........You are not a chemist?

LyndyLoo
06-06-2011, 07:29 PM
I am listening to JVM ( who I dont like) interviewing Dr.Kobalinksy (KOBO)..and I find his remarks rather superficial..He is a forensic specialist ( Blood/DNA) however since this testimony by Dr.Vass is ground breaking,,He cant help himself but poo poo it...wonder where he stood before DNA got recognized???..LOL..

I have no doubt in the future this man ( Dr. Kobo) will use this as a foundation for HIS findings in the future.....All these Forensic specialist will ALL GAIN from Dr. Vass's research...They are just waiting for it to be found credible by the courts....

BTW Dr. Kobo nor most paid forensic specialist would waste their time on research..they only capitalize on all the HARDWORK performed by researcher's such as Dr. Vass.....I find it rather odd that these TH's would Badmouth this man...especially if they EVER WISH to use his findings in future.. CAN you imagine IF these "Experts" ever wish to use this in the future?? and have their opinions exposed???..Yikes....These experts best mind just what they air for the world to hear, see and able to recall??? NOT good for their future possible defenses IMO..

Example: Can you imagine if Lawyers and Forensic specialist poo poo'd DNA..then tried to sit as an expert witness to suggest "Innocence" of someone based on that particular evidence?...I recall back to Lawyer Scheck..from OJ fame...regarding DNA...but this also goes to FUTURE..
Bottomline..this evidence is groundbreaking...no more no less and best keep your well paid mouth shut IF you ever have to use it in the future..JMOO

Softail
06-06-2011, 07:29 PM
I've been checking back to see if I can catch Bill S's summary of a day in the life of...and it is usually up long before now.
I wonder if he is sitting down with his foolscap and a little stuffy pencil re-writing the (many) bits his editor crossed out with her red pen, so he can say his piece on TV. I can just see him - er no - put a line through that - that doesn't sound very professional - and er no - oh maybe that's truthful but really really mean...oh geez - who cares if he sues us - it would never stick....:waitasec:

Here it is:

BILL SHEAFFER: Analysis Of Casey Murder Trial Day 22
http://www.wftv.com/video/28149509/index.html

ETA: :giggle: Bill talks about the "Meat fest" today!

Cherry Ames
06-06-2011, 07:31 PM
My senior didn't dissect a frog, but he did skin a cat and dissect it.:sick:

How horrible...that would be like dissecting a family pet.

Bittiness39
06-06-2011, 07:32 PM
Thanks for that list, I hadn't seen that before:

24. CD-R - Home Depot Video, 5-23-08, 6-29-08, 7-5-08
25. CD-R - Home Depot Video, 5-29-08

Snipped and supersized by me. This is what I am MOST anxious to see. If cameras at Home Depot have ICA on film buying ingredients in May 2008 that constitute chloroform...then the case, for me, and any mystery along with it...is over. Set Match Game. JMO.

TexasLori
06-06-2011, 07:34 PM
You are all so appreciated...this is in my private world, but I felt that it was only right to share a tale of how the real process is in such a tragedy. I hope that he is dancing around to the Barney song with Caylee and making each other Happy!

That is a truly beautiful thought. I pray this is true!