View Full Version : Jason Forgey testimony (OCSO dog handler of Gerus and Bones)
06-07-2011, 12:54 PM
State called Jason Forgey.
JB: complains about something
HHJP: there is no argument. State proves by testimony or they don't.
(Casey looks uncomfortable because of this witness imo)
LDB: how employeed
specialized control K-9 unit
LDB: how long OCSO?
K 9 handler, have worked a dog since 2001
LDB: so for the last ten years you have handled k9 for law enforcement?
LDB: training and qualifications that you have?
the k 9 unit prior to interviewing or actually going into the unit. cross training, I talked to them about working dogs and I transfered there in 2001.
I received a dog in 2001 I went in as a part time handler because I was training then revceived my dog.
LDB: you trained not independ. of dog?
scent discrimination, man training was the first training with the OCSO
LDB: how long
five weeks, two in class room and weeks in field
LDB: aside from the training period that was completed, follow up training?
yes, we have a minimum of training. must have two tracks enough. a supervisor is called out quarterly.
LDB: how long with k9 Garret?
nine months till had to put him down
LDB: another dog?
yes, Ike another blood hound
yes, the same man tracking, scent discrimination. he learns the scent of what you scent him on. he must go to that one person correctly before he goes to next stage.
LDB: how long with k9 Ike?
somewhere in 2004 2005 I gave to another handler
LDB: did you have multiple dogs?
LDB: in different things?
another dog besides Ike?
Witness: yes-Bones has one job and one job only. taught to detect human decom. specifically cadavers. speciality standards, profenency...I was chosen after 911 towers... EOD dog is an explosive dog and we needed more dogs at the time. I worked the two dogs.
LDB: Ike and Bones
LDB: training a single purpose dog for human remains is different?
correct. an imprinting stage, sorry an introduction to make sure dog will be okay. then inprinting you take him to it over and over and train him for a final alert. Take them to it and tell them sit and reward him, after that stage you get into searching. for example if odor was in can you give command and he is to go to right can and gets toy and handler praise.
LDB: an alert is that how you know they have detected?
alert is when he is in odor and working odor
LDB: the final is different? the final alert?
if my water bottle is the source of the odor and if the dog is working from this side you would see his breathing pattern, start to brackett, he would work it to source. by training him and working so many odors you know he is in the odor but not found it but then give me final alert.
LDB: once the dog detects the odor you can see there is a behavioral change?
LDB: when dog gets to source you expect him to give final trained alert?
LDB: what sort of aids were used for Bones during imprint?
in imprint we used mostly rags with human decomp, in the chest cavady of a cadaver.
LDB: that is imprint stage, then move to other training aids?
LDB: what sort of training aids?
"bones" human bones, placentas, chest cavidey rags...psudoscent is an odor, I brought some with me.
LDB: drowning victim only, put into water and see if dog can detect that?
pond, the lake, puts out the odor of drown victim. drop tablets in water let it sit and you run your dog on it
LDB: any training aids you used with bones?
blood also, psudo tissue, decomp on rags, grave dirt, dirt where a cadaver had been recovered from
LDB: you made reference to not having Bones
LDB: decision made by OCSO that a full service dog not a specialized dog?
LDB: what happened to Bones?
we tried to make him full service dog and he didn't make it, they decided they would like me to work a full service dog and they retired him. he went to a captain at that time and sgr Brewer got him from them.
at the time locally sworn LE I covered multiple counties.
LDB: how long?
LDB: Bones was the only cadaver dog in the area for a while?
LDB: so once you had a full service k9 was needed get a new one?
Garus, german sheppard
LDB: same breeding program as it relates to Bones?
no bought Garus
LDB: he come from Germany?
LDB: was a puppy?
no 21 months his birthday was October 20 and he will be nine this October
basic control k9 work. teach obedience. scent discrimination. tracking. 400 hour school.
LDB: once that is complete is Garus certified to do police work?
yes, evaluated by two outside evaluators. Obedience, voice, criminal apprehention...then certified
LDB: you work with him,
you are the only person that works with your dog, when he is tested you are tested.
LDB: after fulfilling the certification is there further training?
go back to school and he does 160 hours for his cadaver dog work
LDB: what do?
same things, introduce them to odor, imprint them, teach him responses. his final alert was different than bones, he lays down at source
LDB: what sort of items did you utilize to imprint Garus on human remains?
the same, rags soaked in chest cavady placenta...
grave dirt, human bones, adopicer, blood placenta, burnt bones, psudo scent.
LDB: drown victim?
yes, but not in normal training.
LDB: proof them off of other odors from what they are trained to do?
you want to think of scenerios they find in life. make sure they are not affected by that. Garus in his whole career never received a bone so as not to teach him to chew on bones. we train him around ham, dumpsters, gas you use in your car. distractors with cheese burgers, decomposing animals, chained him around animal remains, near a horse...purposely train that way.
LDB: horses, does that include Garus wouldn't alter to dog urine or feces as well?
correct, we have multiple dogs we also have dogs that urinate on poles and they are not going to alert on that at all.
LDB: expose them to, Garus in particular, different invironments? Landfill, parking lots?
Yes, tried to expose him to everything. I went to the fire training pile and mock a recovery...drainage pipes...in cars, fields every scenerio I could think of at the time.
LDB: when you are training Garus you know where the scent is hidden?
LDB: after initial training, does he go to specialty schools?
LDB: is this a place where both you and the dog have no idea where the smell is set up?
correct, unknown finds
LDB: unknown to you.
yes, always unknown to the dog but in this case unknown to me.
LDB: heard of any bias by a handler?
yes, false altert
LDB: what was done with Garus to avoid that?
you will only find false alert with new handlers, our department goes to great lenghths to avoid that. stages where you introduce him imprint him and then search him. I let the lead slack, he stops and I walk...I keep on walking to make sure you do not que your dogs.
LDB: Garus have evaluation by outside source?
LDB: certified to do all kinds of work, including cadaver work?
LDB: basic cadaver school hosted by an enitity separate from OCSO?
yes, Andy Redman and his company, a school, I applied for it and went
LDB: Redman is identified as a expert in training?
yes, a week long seminar
06-07-2011, 12:55 PM
State calls Jason Forgey as the next witness.
Direct examination of Officer Jason Forgey by LDB:
(He is in OCSO uniform)
He is employed with OCSO assigned to specialized patrol, K-9 unit. Been with OCSO since 1994, 17 years.
He currently handles a full service dog and has worked a dog since 2001.
Training that initially qualified him - he cross trained with the K-9 unit prior to interviewing or going into the unit. Cross training meant he watch dogs, caught dogs, talked to them about working dogs and then transferred there.
He received a dog in 2001 when he went in as a part time blood hound handler. A few months later he became a full time handler.
His training initially was scent determination/man handling with his blood hound. Lasted 5 weeks, 3 in class, 2 in field, then proficiency test. This was K-9 Garret. He then did follow-up training consisting of meeting the monthly minimum of 2 training tracks a month and a supervisor would observe once a quarter. He worked with this dog for 10 or 11 months until the dog had to be put down.
He then received Ike, another blood hound. He trained Ike the same way - scent discrimination/man tracking and man trailing. He worked with Ike until he gave him to another handler in 2004 or 5.
At some point he had multiple dogs he was training.
In 2002 he received a german shepherd from a breading program named Bones, a single purpose cadaver dog, meaning this is his only job. He is taught to detect human decomp. 160 hours of specialty training and then the dog is certified in proficiency of working and can be deployed in field. These dogs were after 9/11 and the dogs had been converted over from bomb dogs.
Purpose of single purpose dog - training - introduction of dog to odor, imprinting stage then you train him for what you want him to do in his final alert - such as sitting.
The alert is the dog's indication that he has found the scent he has been trained on - any body change that the handler recognizes. The final trained alert is different - it's when he is worked to source - using water bottle as source - you would see the dog's behavior change as he approached the odor, but hasn't gotten to the source. When he reaches the source, the dog gives the final trained alert - such as sitting.
He trained Bones to proceed in this fashion. His final trained alert was a sit. Aids to train him in imprinting were mostly the rags with human decomp on them. They soak rags in the chest cavity of cadavers. Bones then went to training aids such as actually human bones, placentas, chest cavity rags, pseudo scent of drown victims - a man made odor in tablet form to see if the dog can detect the scent in a body of water. He also used blood and grave dirt as a training aid.
He does not have Bones anymore. The Sheriff decided that a full service dog was needed as opposed to a single purpose dog. They tried to convert Bones, but he couldn't do it. They then retired Bones and he went to a captain at OCSO and then to Osceola County Sheriff's Office as a single purpose dog. At the time this witness covered multiple counties as the only sworn officer with his single purpose cadaver dog.
Once he received a full service dog (while still working blood hound), he received Garris, a german shepherd. They bought him from a vendor in Germany. He was a little over a year. He will be 9 in October. He was sent to a program - 400 hour school - basic patrol K-9 work. Garris was then FDLE certified to do case work - evaluated by 2 outside evaluators in obedience, hand and voice, criminal patrols, building and outside areas. Dog and officer are tested as a team.
Garris received additional training consisting of 160 hours ini cadaver dog work. Introduction, imprinting and then he was taught to lay down at a source instead of a sit like Bones. The same training aids were used in imprint and final source training, in addition to body parts such as a leg and foot.
During process they are taught to proof off of other distracting odors - Garris never had a bone at all - no raw hide bone - didn't want him to learn to chew on bones. They trained them around ham bones, dumpsters, gas, cheeseburgers, pizza, decomposing animals, other animal scent, horse training rings, dog urine or feces. Garris was also exposed to different environments, construction area, drainage pipes, in cars, under cars, in fields, every scenario he could think of. When he is training Garris, he knows where the scent is hidden.
Garris received training in specialty schools in which he and the dog both do not know where the training aid is. The testing by OCSO are unknown finds also. This is done to evaluate the officer and the dog as a team.
Regarding cuing or bias on the handler, this could create a false alert. OCOS goes to great lengths to avoid this. They are trained to avoid this from the beginning. He lets the lead slack in his hand. If the dog stops, he would keep moving behind the dog to make sure to not cue the dog. This is usually only a problem for inexperienced handlers.
Garris underwent an evaluation outside the agency after being certified. He went to a basic cadaver school in Sarasota organized by one of the search and rescue groups. Andy Redman and company hosted a seminar/school. He is recognized a leader in the field of cadaver dogs.
Lunch recess until 1:30. Judge hopes they enjoy their lunch today.
06-07-2011, 02:36 PM
Casey Anthony is speaking to Dorothy Clay Sims. Casey is smirking, holding back a smile. Casey Anthony is now speaking to Jose Baez while covering her mouth with a fist. Jose flips through red folders as she speaks, making no attempt to turn his head her way. Casey got red files from Jose, Jose turned her way and took back several of the folders while leaving some that Casey began to flip though.
06-07-2011, 02:51 PM
HHJP: Let's return the jury.
Sargent Forgy Witness
All rise for the jury.
HHJP: was your outing for lunch okay? alright.
LDB: states "nr" for identification.
HHJP: all right.
LDB "nr" do you recognize the documents contained therein?
(looking at documents) yes
Gerus's training logs, along with my training experience.
LDB: enter into evidence
HHJP: what says the defense?
JB: objection, hearsay
HHJP: Let me see them. (HHJP is given documents by LDB :luv: )
JB: (is not near mic)
HHJP: can you ask a few questions for the record?
LDB: yes, did you see the first set, let me get those back to you...
LDB: what are they?
certification for me and Gerus, certification training course
LDB: that is the one you already explained and a certificate was awarded?
David Wade, actual certification. He was evaluating the dog and passed the certification memo
LDB: monitoring Gerus, your record?
LDB: next document?
for the original outside course I went to which was put on by k9 search and assoc.
LDB: business record your responsibility?
yes( I am )
LDB: knowledge if those documents were made at the time of certification?
yes, I made copies for myself and the defense from my records. The next one is the same certificate in a different format. 2005
next is advanced cadaver school by same organization in sarasota hosted by Andy (rippman?)
LDB: you person responsible for business record?
LDB: exact duplicate?
k9 team certification 12 31 2008 for Gerus. Gives his ID number...part of certification
LDB: is that part of the business record you maintain for the OCSO?
examination and evaluation for Gerus, same number ID
this is a single form for 2010, I believe, sorry wrong it is 2006 also.
LDB: is that the multi page form?
LDB: are you the person responsible for the records for OCSO for Gerus?
yes I am, this is another form for myself and Gerus, a certification from november 2007 same ID number for K9, multiple page form. Those are all pages continuous to december 2007.
LDB: what are those?
copy of training logs I complete when I do a training senerio, july 2005 which go thru sept 6th 2008. They are all his training logs. Cadaver only.
LDB: you are the one who makes the entry on the log?
LDB: at the time of the training?
LDB: you are the one responsible for maintaining the business record for OCSO?
HHJP: you may
06-07-2011, 02:54 PM
JB: the records, you are in charge of keeping them?
JB: so you can show in court the dog has been trained?
JB: so you can show judge and jury the dog is trained?
JB: certificates are concerned it is the same?
JB: as far as training logs go, this deals with when you trained the dog?
yes sir I was with the dog
JB: this has nothing to do with performance?
JB: field performance, not training.
JB: nothing further
HHJP: any objections to the proffered subjects?
JB: cites case law
HHJP: ? vs State april 21st 2011 the supreme court found that (numbers) I will admit them into evidence.
06-07-2011, 03:01 PM
LDB: may I publish documents from the exhibit into evidence?
HHJP: you may
LDB: andy redman?
november 1st 2005
LDB: if I may(not near mic) even though you were under going training with outside group you were responsible for info?
LDB: tell us what this info is that you put on log and reason for
who dog is who handler is the date the time and what we did that day. We trained all day because it was a seminar, sarasoda florida, search area, if target was found or not.
LDB: as far as the requirements of this school, these are the different environments the dog was exposed to in training?
a pipe a drain pipe a culvert, a field, a trailer like a portable and gravel mounds of gravel where a dumptruck had dumped gravel.
LDB: cadaver material was ultimately found?
LDB: you made indication as to whether he missed?
yes, but he located all targets
LDB: you have number of searches and have total false alters to date, what is it?
that is what the box is for
LDB: next collum you have total misses is that a situation where the target, (my fault she says, thank you) okay this first box is the different search areas, this box is training locations and then circle target found in this instance Gerus found all targets?
LDB: here is where there would be a false alert?
LDB: whether there was something a miss?
LDB: then the number of finds?
LDB: this day there were eight targets and eight finds?
LDB: what info is put on bottom?
weather, day the condition hot or cold, raining, humid, fog. Wind direction, speed, then comment section
LDB: your comments to the different targets used in training?
LDB: all records are done like this?
LDB: may I approach witness with "ns"..."ny" "oa" "ob"..."oh"...
06-07-2011, 03:07 PM
LDB: do you recognize?
yes, me and Gerus training at the seminars in 05 and 06
LDB: do those photos fairly and accurately depict that training?
LDB: enter into evidence?
HHJP: yes, entered into evidence.
(court reporter giving long lost of evidence entered by letter and given a number)
LDB: May I publish these?
HHJP: You may
LDB: you indicated the photos incompassed Gerus's training at two different schools?
LDB: 2005 in Sarasota more?
yes 2005 and 2006
LDB: what is difference?
basic cadaver and advanced cadaver
LDB: what difference?
more of the distracting a more profecent and advanced school, you will see in pics what they had to go thru to pick up the right stuff, the distracters.
LDB: which school? (is showing pic of Gerus at training)
LDB: (is having slight technical difficulties: there is glare) IMHO: she is very professional.
06-07-2011, 03:08 PM
LDB: it is the light from the ceiling causing a reflection.
06-07-2011, 03:17 PM
LDB: what are we looking at?
interrior search a haunted house
LDB: you can touch the screen
it is in front of him, it is where his head is turned in this direction of a pile of clothes
LDB: any indicators during this session this dog is alterting?
his ears are sticking out, he is proud a head snap working into odor, we were walking down the hall way I thought he was going to go into the room but did not gave a head snap and then gave final alert.
LDB: state's 146 in evidence, what are we looking at here?
the bone room within the haunted house, for obvious reasons. Two real bones in room, rest all fake, he had to find them.
LDB: Gerus had to find?
the two real human bones amongst the fake distractors
LDB: 147 into evidence. what's happening here?
05 or 06, the horse training field. the training aid is under this box. in the center of this so as to have all the animal distractors. tail is up, fuzzy again and nose is down.
LDB: 148 into evidence. what is happening here?
final trained alert.
LDB: 149? different than 148?
Gerus, yes would like to give the final trained alert and then turn and make eye contact with me, he always has. he looks to me for acknowledge ment.
LDB: ? into evidence. 151 in evidence let me show you.
a car search a training of car search at advanced school. sweep them low and sweep them high. it is why I let the lead loose so you do not pull dog you leave slack.
LDB: 152 in evidence, what are we seeing here?
same, another car search training, his tail he is in odor I am going to spin him because I thought he passed the door too fast and he continued to search it was on the rear bumper.
LDB: 153 what shows?
training aid, a femur
LDB: aid as well?
upper jaw bone
horse training field it shows we are finding the search, directing
this was the pipe, the culvert I was explaing it training aid was at the center and he had to work to get it
block searches, his head and tail. fixing to dump his head into the odor. he has shifted forward because he is still moving forward. I give his leash slack.
more blocks, some empty training the wind was hitting us in the nose that day. straight past everything right to it.
LDB: 160, he gets reward if successful?
yes, handler praise and a ball.
06-07-2011, 03:35 PM
Jury back in courtroom after lunch recess
Continued Direct Examination of Jason Forgey by LDB:
Jurors had an outing for lunch.
LDB showing witness State's N.R. composite exhibit. He recognized them as K-9 Garris's certification, training logs and his K-9 experience.
JB objected to them being entered into evidence as hearsay and improper (something)
HHBP asked LDB to ask a few more questions.
JF said the first item certification for him and dog for basic training in human remains training course. Next - copy of memo by Sgt David Wade sent to chain of command as to actual certification - 7/29/05. Next - original outside course in Sarasota, basic cadaver course school dated 11/05. Next - continuation of same certificate. Next - Advanced Cadaver Search School completed in 11/06 in Sarasota, copy of certificate. Net - Canine Team Certification dated 12/08 for K-9 Garris, part of FDLE certification. Next - part of examination and evaluation form for 11/06 for K-9 Garris for FDLE certification. Next is another evaluation form - multi-page form. Next - another FDLE certification form for him and dog 11/07, multi-page form.
Next set of documents - copy of training logs he completes when he does a training scenario starting 1/11/05 through 9/06/08.
VOIR DIRE OF WITNESS BY JB:
He is in charge of keeping these records so that he can show the court that the dog has been trained. The training logs deal with the times he was with the dog training, not the field performance.
Objection by LDB - Sustained
No further questions by LDB.
JB objects to proffered exhibits and feels they are inadmissible. HHBP cited 4/21/11 Supreme Court decision and admitted into evidence as Exhibit 144.
Exhibit 144 published to the Jury.
First training by Andy Redman group in 11/05. During this time, he continued to maintain a training log for the dog. The logs identify the dog, handler and what they did that day, where they trained and then the quantities, search area, target locations and whether the target was found. If he had missed the target, it would have been listed under missed. He found all the targets.
Total False Alerts To Date and Total Misses and number of finds - boxes on the form. On this date there were 8 targets and 8 finds.
The bottom half of form contains weather info/condition, wind direction, speed and temperature. Then his comments regarding the different targets.
This is the same format utilized in all of the training records.
LDB shows witness multiple State's exhibits (photos)
He has reviewed the photos as showing him and the dog training in Sarasota in 2005 and 2006. They show some of the things that were required during the training.
LDB submits documents in to evidence as Exhibit 145-160 with no objection from JB
Photos published to the Jury.
Photos from two different schools.
There was training in Sarasota in 11/05 and 11/06. One was basic and the other advanced cadaver dog course. The second one involves more distracting and more proficiency.
Exhibit 145 was from the 2006 course
(JB finding something amusing)
Lights in courtroom dimmed because they were causing a glare on the photos when put on the telestrator.
#145 was an interior search of a haunted house. There was blood in the back on cloth in the corner. His hair is sticking up, he is head snapping, looking into the odor. Photo taken right before the final trained alert.
#146 was the bone room in the haunted house. There were two real bones and Garris had to find them mixed in with fake bones - one on the wall and one in the pile.
#147 (2005) in the middle of a horse training field. The training aid is under the box - there were several boxes. It shows an off lead search.
#148 audio lost
#149 - shows Garris making eye contact with him which is what he always does after his final trained alert.
#151 shows a vehicle search. He has a slack lead.
#152 another vehicle search showing hair on tail changing. Odor was actually under the rear bumper.
#153 Shows the femur as a training aid
#154 is an upper jaw bone training aid
#155 is the horse training field. He is refining the search by directing.
#156 shows the culvert. Training aid was at the center.
#157 - block searches, shows dog's tail and head. Odor is in concrete box, ready to give final trained alert.
#158 shows him working odor in a set of blocks.
#160 shows Garris getting a reward - a ball. Handler praise and ball is his reward.
(ICA and DS whisperig)
He had a few misses and one false alert during this training. They did 15 searches. He missed 2 small pieces of napkin that had a couple of drops of blood in the hallway. There were 15 items and he missed 2. The false alert - 2006 no false alert, 2005 one false alert on the 9th and 3 on the 8th. On the 8th they had 31 searches and he was tired
JB objected and moved to strike - overruled.
31 searches is the most the dog has done in one day and the dog was tired and bored. That was why he gave false alerts. On the 9th he did 12 searches with one false alert. His log doesn't indicate why.
He would never have a dog do 31 searches in one day in the real world. They would normally find one item.
Garris continues maintenance training - minimum 2 specialty trainings a month and then quarterly they are evaluated by either a supervisor or trainer.
Between 7/05 and 6/10 he had 21 quarterly evaluations by supervisor or training. He had no problems with misses or false alerts during this time.
Casey looking bored.
Garris has been trained on residual odor (where a body has been removed). First time in 9/9/05 - body had been located next to a retention pond. He ran it before they moved the deceased. He then went back 10 days later and worked it from 2 different directions to see how the dog reacted. They actually found 2 bones that had been missed.
The next time was 4/4/06 where a transient had been located deceased - approx 2 days - 20-25 yards off the roadway in the woods. There was food around her. He ran it as a training aid. No problems with missing or false alert.
The third time was 7/22/07 - body had been removed from the side of the roadway 10 hours earlier in Osceola County. No issues with misses or false alerts.
Since 2001 he has had 200 real world cadaver calls and 498 training situations.
Garris is a full service dog. He undergoes other training. The dog works as many hours as he does - 80 hours every 2 weeks.
He is typically called to a scene by a detective. Sometimes cold case files, or it could be a fresh case. There have been a few calls he has heard dispatched that he thought he could help with, or he has checked the screen and seen something where he felt he could help. The typical end result is that there is no alert.
In 2005 Garris had no real world cadaver searches.
In 2006 there were 6 calls. Garris alerted once - they found a deceased person. No false alerts.
In 2007 Garris had 9 real world cadaver searches, no alerts.
In 2008 71 real world cadaver searches with 3 alerts - 3/24/08 the first one was a find of a lower jaw bone.
Skipping over this case.
In 2008, after July he had several call outs as it related to the disappearance of Caylee. That is why he went from 9 searches to 71. He was following a number of tips on this case.
He documented two of these cases that appeared to be a small shallow grave. Garris did not alert to either location. They were still dug by forensics and both were animals.
In 2009 Garris had 12 cadaver searches with 1 alert - a find of a drowning victim still under water. He fell out of a canoe and had not surfaced.
In 2010 Garris had 11 searches and no alerts.
Garris is currently retired. His last day of work was in 11/10 and he went down in a call.
The first search in 2006 was documented on video. A male called in and said he heard there was a deceased female and that she had been discarded in a wooded area near a pond. 5 detectives searched on foot, the helicopter came and searched two more times. He was told there was a large alligator in the pond. It was dark. This search was captured on video by the helicopter which stayed around because of the alligator.
LDB wants to introduce the video
JB objects due to no prior disclosure
06-07-2011, 03:35 PM
LDB: during any of those schools Gerus have misses?
LDB: false alerts?
on the one day we had done 15 searches and worked all day. the haunted house he missed two pieces of napkin that had blood but he got 15 and missed two.
LDB: hit on anything that was not there?
correct, refer back to logs, I don't believe there was....06 no false alerts in 05 one false alerts on the 9th and three on the 8th.
31 searches that day. he was tired
31 that day. the most he did in one day. he was tired. I indicate that in my log I typed it in the bottom. He was bored and tired.
LDB: next day you indicated...
on the 9th? it was 11 9, soil adopocier and muscle he just false alerted that day
LDB: do those training situations like real life? 31 searches in a day?
no, if you find one item you usually stop
LDB: Gerus have any maintainance training?
quarterly, a certified trainer
LDB: how many times between ? july 2010 under go evaluation by certified trainer?
(is looking) 21 times he was evaluated
LDB: you kept training records?
LDB: any misses or false alerts?
LDB: any sit where you knew the body was there then removed, residual odor?
LDB: specific? where and when
yes, the first time was 9 5 05 a body was near a retention pond in the high grass. the gentleman had been deceased for 7 days. I ran a training. I went back ten days. that was the first one and we found two bones they missed.
LDB: second time?
a transient, deceased two days just off the road way into the woods. food around it was a white female. ran as a training aid. It was okay. I ran that one.
LDB: any false alerts?
no, then the next one was a body that was removed from the roadway, ten hours.
LDB: ten after the body had been removed?
LDB: any issues with Gerus missing that area or false alert the area?
LDB: since 2001 when you started this work how many cadaver calls?
real world calls: over 200 in training almost 500
LDB: in addition to the cadaver work Gerus is full service and under goes training
LDB: when you work he works?
yes. 80 hours every two weeks
LDB: how called?
a detective will call. cold case file. or a fresh case a dect calls and I get out there. I have heard a few calls dispached I could help with, or check the screen they had heard that someone has been killed and I go out and help.
LDB: are these calls...there is no alert?
that is correct it is typical
LDB: in 2005 did Gerus have any real world?
no not in 2005
LDB: of six did Gerus alert?
a find, we found a deceased person. I don't know the end result of that, have case document.
LDB: one alert and one find
LDB: no false?
LDB: no alert means no false alert
the first one was 3 24 2008, that was a find.
LDB: what did Gerus find?
a mandable, lower jaw bone with teeth attached.
LDB: the events in this case in 2008 after july 15th 2008 did you have several call outs for Caylee Anthony
absolutely, we had hundreds of tips on this particular case, that is why we went from such a little number of searches to a large number.
LDB: did you see anything that suggested disturbed earth?
yes, documented two of these cases, a recent shallow grave. indent in the dirt, the grass is not the same. small shallow grave. did Gerus alert to these location?
both were animals
LDB: in 2009 did Gerus have any cadaver searches
yes 12 in 2009 a find, a drown victim still underwater, fell out of a canoe and had not surfaced.
11 searches and no finds.
LDB: Gerus is retired?
LDB: last day of work?
sept. 2010 he went down on a call
LDB: you have video tape?
the first one the female in 5 29 2006
call in deceased female, had been shot and discarded. the deputies went out and walked the woods and searched the pond and could not find anything. They called helicopter and searched the area again. I helped, the helicopter saw I arrived and said they were leaving but there was a aligator, I asked them to stay while I searched.
LDB: evening dark?
LDB: helicopter caught it because of aligator in the area?
LDB: you have had a chance to review this video?
LDB: fair and accurate representation?
HHJP: any objections?
JB: we object.
06-07-2011, 03:40 PM
Objection overruled and video admitted as Exhibit #???
Recess until 2:55.
06-07-2011, 03:41 PM
HHJP: overruled. The video is 20 minutes and we will recess until five minutes to three. We will be in recess. Okay thank you.
06-07-2011, 04:02 PM
Jury not present.
LDB wants to start the video at the 15 minute mark because that is when Officer Forgey comes into the picture.
JB says this is not in accordance with Harris. He feels they are addressing a matter of law with the Jury. Feels they are holding a motion to suppress hearing in front of the jury. The jury is hearing things that are completely irrelevant. If it proceeds, the matter will be made worse - matter of law as opposed to matter of fact.
HHBP 12 individuals will be asked to evaluate the believability of this testimony. They will have to decide if this or any other K-9 is reliable. The training and certification and experience all go to factors that will enable the triers of fact will reject or accept this evidence.
Previous ruling will stand.
Jury coming back.
06-07-2011, 04:07 PM
Continued Direct Examination of Jason Forgey by LDB.
Video published to the Jury. Officer Forgey says he does not come into view until 15:45 on the video taken by the helicopter with infrared lighting. At the time they are performing, he did not know where the body was.
LDB wants to start at 15:45. JB renews all previous objections.
Video is started.
(There is no audio and it is hard for me to see. Can't report much to you all - sorry.)
Now I can see the body in the water. The water is light and the ground is dark.
(ICA is watching the monitor on and off.)
We can now see the dog and he is close to the body.
End of tape.
06-07-2011, 04:16 PM
Direct exam of Officer Jason Forgey by LDB - continued
He described the area as an old sink hole. The dog was trying to jump through the high grass. There was lots of trash as it is a known transient area. The sink hole is in the middle of the woods. Gerrus winded the body from the wood section and drug him through the woods and down the high embankment - bracketing - trying to get to it. He gave his final alert and then turned and looked right at him.
Regarding Bones - he worked in real calls where he alerted also. He had 4 real finds within 11 months that he worked him. First was a call he heard where someone called and said they thought their house dog had found a human bone. He called the unit on scene who said it looked real.
Objection by JB - hearsay. LDB - relavent to predicate - Objection overruled.
He drove to Tangerine and recognized it as a section of a human mandible. Interviewed owner of house dog and determined where the dog normally played - said the dog played all over. He deployed Bones from his vehicle on the main street and started walking. Wind was out of north. He pulled him thru the backside of a church in to a field and located the lower portion of a cadaver.
Second and third ones - he was asked to search the backyard area - K-9 bones alerted in the garage and a deceased man was found buried under the garage floor. Went 2 streets over and located another body in the pool and rock area.
Fourth involved a sexual battery case. Dog was to locate an item that had blood on it. He deployed and located a rag that the suspect had wiped off blood with and discarded in an open field.
LD shows witness Item L.K. He identified it as the report created with the video.
JB - same objections. OVERRULED. Marked as Exhibit 162.
SIDEBAR # 6.
06-07-2011, 04:51 PM
Direct examination of Deputy Forgey by LDB
LDB showed him his supplemental report so that he could determine the time he was called in this case.
He was first called in this case on July 17, 2008. He responded to main operations at 2500 West Colonial - the forensics bays at 5:31 p.m. To prepare for a call, Gerus' collar is an indicator - a tool for the dog to know. A harness is for tracking, a collar is for looking for human remains.
When he arrived, he had no info about the case other than general info. He responded to the Bay and the CSI took him to a vehicle in the Bay that they wanted him to look at. At this point, Deputy Forgey had 5 years working with training aids of human origin.
JB objected - OVERRULED.
He also is able to detect the odor of human remains. When he got there, he could smell the strong odor of decomp in the Bay. The dog was in the vehicle waiting. Dep. Forgey went inside to see what they wanted. He discovered the vehicle was still in the Bay and asked them to move it outside because there are other bio hazard trash cans in the opposite bay. He asked them to move the vehicle outside in the parking lot. He wanted it in the open air to remove it from the other bio hazards.
My question - other bio-hazards? Did this taint anything else in this case?
He did not recall how long he let it sit - not too long.
He had Gerus sweep a car on the west side of the subject vehicle. This is what they do in training. He's never run into this in the real world situation. They then went to the subject vehicle. The first time around the Sunfire, the doors were closed.He swept it in a counter clockwise manner starting at the front bumper and driver's side. He had told a tech that he would have them start opening the vehicle by slightly opening the doors in a counterclockwise manner.
On the first past he started indicating in the rear of the vehicle. On the second time around he had the driver's door opened. Gerrus dove into the car, looking to the back seat trunk area trying to get there. He came back out, working the source. He had the tech open the trunk and the dog jumped into the trunk (front end - stuck his head in). Dep, Forgey was overwhelmed at that point also. Dog came out of the trunk and gave him a final trained alert.
The next day he was asked to go to the A's home. He was asked to do a sweep of the backyard - that they had a concern of a couple of areas in the backyard - a low area that GA was not familiar.
JB - OBJECTION - move to strike. HHBP - which portion Mr. Baez? SUSTAINED - portion stricken about GA's familiarity.
He took the dog to the A's. He went and looked at the backyard before deploying the dog to see the areas of concern for the detectives. He got the dog from the car and conducted a search of the yard. They did an off lead search. The majority of people were removed. His K-9 supervisor remained. He commanded the dog to find human remains (Command is Find Fred). Indicator was collar. Off lead because it was a fenced yard to allow a free search. He entered the yard from the NW corner (gate by garage) and headed east. Went past sheds, heading east. They then returned to the NE corner where there was an indentation. The dog did not alert there, but continued to work. He went around the pool. The only area he gave any alerts and a final trained alert was in the SE corner, near the play house and sand box area.
LDB wants to publish Exhibit 43 to the Jury. Yes you may.
He identified the play area in the photo.
He indicated where the trained final alert occurred. (It was in the grass in front of the playhouse, bench and sandbox area. )
He then removed the dog from the area and suggested another cadaver dog come search - Bones.
When Bones' handler arrived, he gave general info - here's the area of concern, here's where I want you to search, here's what I did. You don't tell them what the dog did.
Bones arrived. He was present for Bones' search. He did not run it. Bones had been with the other handler for a few years at that point.
No more questions by LDB.
06-07-2011, 05:16 PM
CROSS EXAM OF DEPUTY FORGEY BY JB
He agreed the lot line of the A's back yard is not very large, but it's a personal perception.
He agreed there was less square footage of grass in the backyard than in the courtroom.
He was shown Exhibit 43 and asked to remark the area of the final trained alert. He did so. He agreed there was another shed on the south side of the house.
Agreed dog has been trained with residual odor. He gave 2 examples of that previously - one was after 10 hours and the other was after 10 days. He has had real world finds older than 30 days.
Residual odor - possibly something was there and is no longer there. It could be decomp fluid or scent or it could not be there at all.
There are false alert - dogs are not perfect.
Unless he visually sees the body or parts or a doctor finds something - he does not have confirmation that something was there.
Two training sessions were in 2005 and 2007 on residual odor.
When he first went to see the car, he was told it was "the vehicle in question". There were other items in the forensics bay when he got there. He is generally familiar with the bay. He did not know what trash was in the bay and that was why he asked to bring the car out. He swept another vehicle next to it that had nothing to do with the case.
He had a video of one of his finds. He did not video tape this find. He is sure there was a video available. If he could have predicted where they are today, they would have videotaped it, but it is not a common practice to video tape searches.
He is shown the handbook that he finds authoritative. It is written by Andy Redman, the person he trained under in Sarasota in 2005 and 2006.
He was asked if he was familiar with the section where the book recommends video taping so that it can be shown to the Jury.
He did not know if a body had been removed from the Sunfire, but knew there was no body in the car when he did the sweep.
Nothing in his policies and procedures said he had to video tape the sweep.
The training logs are done by him. He trains the dog a couple of times a month. It is just him and the dog other than the times when he is being observed. The dog is also evaluated quarterly. The logs are an indication of him and the dog's work as a team.
When he is training his dog, it is not blind testing which means that he knows where the target is. When he is evaluated quarterly, unless indicated they are not blind testing.
Part of the reward to the dog is handler praise and the dog wants to please him.
After his final alert in the yard, Sgt Brewer was called and then forensics CSI. He did not think they dug. It appeared they scraped the surface. They did not find anything.
They called him to come back the next day - at that time the dog did not give any alerts.
He issued a police report after searching the vehicle.
When he searched the backyard twice, he did not do a report.
The six searches in 2006 - he only did a report of the one find.
No police report in 2007 of the nine searches with no alerts.
In 2008 - he issued a report for the alert in the backyard, but not the other 70 searches. He documented two of them, 7/23/08 shallow grave - no alert - found animal remains. On 8/11/08 shallow grave - no alert - found animal remains.
In 12/08 he was deployed to Suburban Drive where the body had been found. He was called because a couple of small bones were still missing. The dog did not find them. He would not allow him to get to where he knew the body had been. He was trying to find other items. He was trying to get there and alerting and he was trying to get him away from that. He wanted to search away from that area.
Regarding his 11/29/10 depo, page 81 - lines 23
ICA whispering to DS
"He did not give any alerts at all" He recalled this and said that was what he testified to.
Objection by LDB - HHBP - Witness may finish his answer.
As he testified in his depo and today, the dog did try to alert at the source and he did not want him to give a final alert there. He did not give a final trained alert because he would not allow him to. They were looking for a few very small bones.
Objection by LDB - SUSTAINED.
He considered bones human remains. He did not find any. The dog did not give a final trained alert because he would not allow him to go to where the body was recovered.
He was told there were a couple of bones missing. He does not know exactly how many.
06-07-2011, 05:21 PM
REDIRECT Exam of Deputy Forgey by LDB.
He is aware his work is under scrutiny all the time. He has been on well over 3000 calls. Very few real world scenarios have been recorded. If the helicopter is present, they are taped.
Regarding his second trip to the A's, the reason there was no alert he believes is because whatever the dog was hitting on the day before was on the surface. Then, once it was scraped, it was disturbed and nothing was found.
Training covers decomp fluid that has soaked into the ground.
He did not write a report when the dog does not alert. There is nothing to put into a report - responded to a location - no alert.
The dog does not alert to trash, velveeta cheese, chicken package.
His concern in the forensics bay was the bio-hazard box which was in the next bay.
No further question by LDB.
06-07-2011, 05:27 PM
RECROSS OF DEPUTY FORGEY BY JB
Regarding his belief of why the dog did not alert on the second day -
OBJECTION BY LDB - SUSTAINED
He was asked if he knew Caley's body was in the backyard or whether it was a false alert or whether the scent was lost when the ground was scraped. He could say he had a final trained alert the day before and that after the surface was removed, he did not get an alert. He did not feel he speculated - the dog alerted one day and did not the next day.
OBJECTION by LDB - OVERRULED
It is an unknown factor to him why he alerted one day and not the next.
Every time the dog has had an alert, besides this case, he has had a find.
If he has an alert and does not have remains, such as this case, he does not know what happened in the back yard. He did not see anything in the trunk, but he smelled it in the car and said the doctor already testified to it.
OBJECTION - compound question - SUSTAINED
If there is alert and there are no remains - there were never remains, there were remains and gone or it is a false alert? Regarding the car, he has smelled many a dead body.
Deputy is excused.
06-07-2011, 05:41 PM
(Sorry - missed the sidebar - it's #7 I believe)
HHBP - next witness will be another K-9 officer (Bones' handler). He doesn't want to break up the testimony so they are ending for the day.
He has worked out the kinks for the 2 restaurants and they should be able to go to them next week. He is trying to decide both in one week or one next week and one the following - Italian and then Steak. "Ya'll know what I'm talken' about".
Jury excused for the day until 9:00 a.m.
06-27-2011, 11:57 AM
Dep. Forgey - identified drawing from March - entered into evidence....there were other's present during veh. search of kc's car @ forensic bay...one was his supervisor...not typical that the Sup. would write a report.
In real world scenario, the only one questioning.....in training you can set up 2 cars....but in real world.....could have moved the car next to another car....it was....could you ask them to move the car where there several cars there....it is possible but didn't....
LDB - whether there were 1, 2, or 200 cars you still knew Pontiac Sunfire was the car in question? correct...
witness excused subject to recall...
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