What happened to Johnny Gosch? ALL THREADS MERGED HERE

[miles_draken]

I remember the first time I realized that people take children. It was September 1982 in the city of Des Moines Iowa that an 11 year old paperboy named Johnny Gosch was taken while working his Sunday morning paper route. What followed was a completely botched investigation by the police department and a mother who made it her lifes work to make sure nothing like this ever happened to anyone else's child. Noreen Gosch has gone on to write legislation for missing children. Her own child Johnny was taken from her for 14 years. When she finally saw him again it was only briefly. He now lives under an assumed identity, fearful for his life. This is worthy of anyones time to read. It is a shocking account with more twists than anything Hollywood could come up with. God bless Noreen Gosch in all of her work, and God bless Johnny and all the other children like him who have met similair fates at the hands of these terrible people. I would welcome posts from anyone who knows more about this case. I've investigate what I could on the web. Here is a link to the web site Noreen Gosch started. I invite everyone to read their incredible story.

www.johnnygosch.com (http://www.johnnygosch.com)

[2sisters]

I read the story before about the man claiming to be Johnny coming to see her. Has it been confirmed as him? I wondered if it was a hoax when i read it, not that she was involved but someone was tricking her for fun. Some people might think that was funny and play with her that way.

[miles_draken]

According to Norreen it was indeed Johnny. She claimed that she answered the door and saw this grown man she didn't know with the childs eyes she had loved. It was by all accounts her son. She didn't admit to seeing him until on the stand testifing in a case. I think it was kept secret for something like 3 years if memory serves me correctly. There is so much more that continues to happen with this case after the book was written. As recently as last year Norreen found a blow up doll with a single bullet hole in the head placed outside her apartment door. It is an ongoing and sad saga. At one point her P.I. attended a child slavery auction hoping to buy JOhnny back, but he was not one of the children. This entire saga can be cross referenced with the Franklin Credit Union Cover-UP. What a sorted tale indeed.

[less0305]

This was an incredible story to read. I had absolutely no knowledge of this information....but at the time I would have been in my 20's and who knows if I was keeping up on political affairs and such. Gee, that is truly an amazing story.

[lisag]

I have a hard time believing it was actually Johnny who came to see her. Something sounds weird here...
Why would he not come forward and help have these people arrested...
Why would he not want to have a relationship with his mother ??
I am just not sure about this...

If it is him, it doesn't sound like he has actually escapes his hell, as he still has to hide....

I am on the fence here...

[VespaElf]

Lisa I agree.
This story is "fantastic" isn't it?

Child Slave auctions,assumed names,a vast international conspiracy-GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!

Where is the FBI? Why didn't the P.I tell them about this "auction" and since Johnny is an adult why would he have been there for "sale"?

This is a cruel hoax,a kooky conspiracy theory gone awry or someone so beheld by grief theyve gone mad.


Im not on the fence..........I don't buy it at all.
Yes Johnny went missing but everything else stinks of b.s!

[2sisters]

That's why I made a post on this forum. I am curious about proof, I read the conspiracy theory and it doesn't add up. I am so sorry for the Gosch family that they have not only lost a child but have been sucked into this.

[miles_draken]

all the evidence gathered was done by Norreen Gosch and her team of Private Detectives. I have thoroughly researched this and listened to her on many radio broadcasts, I firmly believe this story to be accurate. I don't know about the higher level government stuff, but read the Gunderson Report on the Franklin Credit Union scandal, it's very convincing. FBI and LE didn't assist much in this case from the beginning, there was no law back then, and they used their option to wait 72 hours to do anything. FBI never entered Johnny's case as a missing person, their response was they had no proof a crime had been committed. Just remember folks, truth is stranger than fiction!

[VespaElf]

Ever listen to AM Radio's "Coast To Coast" show?

There's "experts" on there too so you're telling me that if they sound convincing enough they're telling the truth?(for those who don't know "Coast To Coast" is a totally off the wall radio show with people calling in to discuss their alien abductions and how the CIA faked the moon landing!).
What reasearch have you done anyway? Reading Noreen's materials? Thats more than slightly biased no?
Noreen has my prayers and my sympathy and I belive fact is usually stranger than fiction but this far rereaching child slavery conspiracy is just cukoo .

I can read numerous books about all sorts of things and listen to a myriad of "experts" and "eyewitnesses" and "investigators" and I can belive what they say BUT that doesnt make it true.Look at the "satanic panic" in the '80s.Alot of innocent people were accused and convicted of being involved in a mass satanic child molestation conspiracy based on "investigators" and "experts" and lo and behold it wasn't true!

I am not trashing the Gosch family.They have been through hell but devoting time to this nonsense takes time away from real investigations.

If this story is true please tell me why hasen't Noreen and her"investigators" gone to the FBI? Why isn't NCMEC shouting about this from the rooftops? Wheres AMW?


When you can answer these questions I might be further inclined to listen.

[blaster]

It is a very ignorant thing to disbelieve in child slavery. This kind of thing happens all over the world and throughout history. So go ahead why don't you go to the press and discredit Johnny and Noreen Gosch I'd like to see what the reply would be, and for your info the FBI were investigating this and from what I've seen some of you should do a little researching yourselves before you junior investigators screw with someones life. As long as there are people like you kids like Johnny will never go home.
Special Agent FBI Ted L. Gunderson's report (http://www.iahf.com/other/20001202a.html)
:waitasec:

[miles_draken]

You are correct, the FBI did get involved in this case some time later. THey were told by Des Moines PD that they didn't need their help in the case, as they were treating it as a runaway, even though several eye-witnesses saw the car and mysterious man. This wasn't a runaway. It is amazing to me in a forum like this that people are so quickly to disbelieve a story like this. What exactly about this is unbelievable? A few years ago people would have said it unbelievable that terrorists could do the damage to this country that they've done. THings are only unbelievable until the masses believe. I don't know how much of the reports NOrreen and her investigators have uncovered is factual, but I truly believe her. She's crusaded for over twenty years now to help other children. Because of her there is no longer a 72 hour wait and see period, and the FBI become involved a lot more quickly. You can pick and choose what you want to believe from what has been presented with 20 years of research and investigation, but why is this any more unbelievable than the book " A Beautiful Child"? I know this is a true account of a strange case, should we dismiss the Johnny Gosch case as bull in comparison?

[blaster]

CNN NEWS (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/03/08/women.trafficking/)
The day my God died (http://http://thedaymygoddied.com/overview.html) and on and on........yahoo has 469,000 refs. of child sex slavery. But, none of this really happens and children don't really go missing they just get a little misplaced that's all. :liar:

[Ghostwheel]

CNN NEWS (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/03/08/women.trafficking/)
The day my God died (http://http://thedaymygoddied.com/overview.html) and on and on........yahoo has 469,000 refs. of child sex slavery. But, none of this really happens and children don't really go missing they just get a little misplaced that's all. :liar:No one said this doesn't happen. They have stated their opinions that they don't think it happened in this particular case, BECAUSE it seems unlikely that if such a thing would happen, the the person to whom it happened to would just walk away and nothing would get settled, and no one would be investigated or arrested. They might have stated their opinion a little more gently, but it is still a valid opinion.

I thought there used to be a thread on this with a lot of really good information.
Website is here:
http://www.johnnygosch.com/

I believe Noreen believes this was her child. I didn't know him, but my inclination is to disbelieve his claims BECAUSE if he was so worried about the slavers in his past that he cannot come home, why would he knowingly endanger his mother by even coming by the house? That would be incredibly foolish, both for his safety and hers. The people who operate these rings are dangerous, from all I have read.

[2sisters]

Everyone on this forum has opinion and thoughts of certain cases. Nobody's theory is "ignornat". Someone's ignorant theory could solve a case. Yes the story is far fetched and yes I suppose possible. If this story is true then I urge Johnny Gosch to come forward and tell his story publicly and stop this from happening to other children right now before it continues on. If he survived that, then he needs to come forward and stop it. All I want to know is why this story is not more publisized on mainstream media. As far as the Sharon Marshall case, if there were not so much evidence on her case then it would not be belived and if there were nothing solid to back it up then I admit, I would not belive her story. I think the people on this forum are quite helpful and caring and it is people like this that bring children home and solve cases.

[VespaElf]

No one said this doesn't happen. They have stated their opinions that they don't think it happened in this particular case, BECAUSE it seems unlikely that if such a thing would happen, the the person to whom it happened to would just walk away and nothing would get settled, and no one would be investigated or arrested. They might have stated their opinion a little more gently, but it is still a valid opinion.

I thought there used to be a thread on this with a lot of really good information.
Website is here:
http://www.johnnygosch.com/

I believe Noreen believes this was her child. I didn't know him, but my inclination is to disbelieve his claims BECAUSE if he was so worried about the slavers in his past that he cannot come home, why would he knowingly endanger his mother by even coming by the house? That would be incredibly foolish, both for his safety and hers. The people who operate these rings are dangerous, from all I have read.


Thank you GW and 2Sisters,
I know all too well the horrors that befall children in our world.I have never or would ever deny this but I do not belive thats what happened in this case!!


AND INSTEAD OF ATTACKING ME JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS!!!!!

Where is NCMEC is this? Where is the FBI? (all "Miles" did was say they were involved but gave no follow up) Where are any other "investigators" NOT paid for by or involved with but totally independant from Noreen?

Having an obvious troll call me "ignorant" doesnt answer those questions does it?

[lisag]

Blaster - you should think before you speak, or type !!

I never said I didn't believe in child slavery.. I am sure that it does exist. And it may have happened with Johnny...
But I dont believe that he suddenly came home as an adult man, visited his mother once, told her not to tell anyone and that he was still endanger...
Knowing what he "went through" you would think he would want to tell - to help arrest the SOB's that did this... so that it would not happen to another child again.. I am not buying it..

No one is trashing the Goschs's and no one wants to stop them finding answers... I believe that Noreen BELIEVES it was her son... I think someone is playing with her mind and THAT is what could hinder the investigation - not "posters" like us.

JMHO

[exoromeo]

Parts of the story sound plausible....parts sound a little "fishy."

For example, it mentions Michael LaVey (Anton LaVey's son)....well, Anton had three children, none named Michael. LaVey fathered three children, two daughters named Karla and Zeena, and one son named Xerxes. (Born Xerxes Carnacki LaVey on November 1st, 1993 to Anton LaVey and Blanche Barton. LaVey's only son).

Sorta off-topic, but relevant to my post, there was a guy in California named Anthony Jess LaVey (supposedly). He was (again supposedly) the son of Anton and had converted to Christianity. He went around preaching on the religious circuit about Satanism, the occult, etc. When contacted and asked for documentation to support his claims, Jess "LaVey" responded that he was unable to provide evidence due to satanic conspiracies against him.

So, the LaVey part definitely adds a credibility issue to at least one person involved (or at least mentioned in the story).

[miles_draken]

The reason Johnny can't come home, which is the main theme of the story, is that he is in hiding and fearful of his life from this syndicate of child pornographers and kidnappers who would do anything to protect their lifestyle. From what I gathered from the story there have been other people "silenced" who were involved. I believe his fears would be justified. Also, he has his mother, father, and siblings to think about protecting as well. I am off to do more reading on this to see if there has been any recent updates. Thanks for posting everyone, this is a great forum!

[lisag]

The reason Johnny can't come home, which is the main theme of the story, is that he is in hiding and fearful of his life from this syndicate of child pornographers and kidnappers who would do anything to protect their lifestyle. From what I gathered from the story there have been other people "silenced" who were involved. I believe his fears would be justified. Also, he has his mother, father, and siblings to think about protecting as well. I am off to do more reading on this to see if there has been any recent updates. Thanks for posting everyone, this is a great forum!


So what you saying is that he is too fearful for his life and the lives of his family to come home, to talk to authorities and give names.. But he is not fearful for all the other children this could happen to if he does not come forward ??????????????

[miles_draken]

We don't know how we would react to any situation until we were in it. Remember, this kid has been supposedly brainwashed and tortured. There comes a time when self preservation out weighs everything else. It is easy to sit here and think that we would help these other children even if it meant our lives, but until we are in the situation we don't know for sure. Also, Johnny has atleast 2 siblings that I know of, and parents. SHould this be his cross to bear?

[VespaElf]

If he was brainwashed how would he remember anything or think it was ok just to visit that one time none of this is making anything sense so I just dont buy it!

Again "Miles":IS NCMEC INVOLVED ? WHAT EXACTLY HAS BEEN THE FBI'S INVOLVEMENT?

[miles_draken]

I am not sure of the FBI involvement, I do know there was a confrontation between Johnnys mother and an agent in her home. Johnny gave her names to aide in arrests. When his mother went to the police to try and get protective custody for him, Witness Protection, in turn for his testimony, the police were non committal. Remember, the police chief at the time of his dissapearance was discovered later to be involved with people suspected in his kidnapping. I'm continuing to explore these different issues you bring up here, I do have a job though and can't committ full time, I'd appreciate any help in investigating the different aspects of this case. I really don't have any info from the Law Enforcement side of this case, I can't seem to locate any. Again, any help in answering these questions would be greatly appreciated. THanks!

[emma l]

Guys,

You can go to www.johnnygosch.com and read a whole chapter on-line, for free, of the book Johnnys mother wrote "Why can't Johnny come home", its a very interesting read and should help you make up your mind!

Theres also some interesting pictures at the end of the sample chapter including a poster that Johnnys mother and others in her town were sent anonymously with the police composite sketch and a picture of the man Noreen claims is partly responsible side-by-side. The anonymous sender has drawn an arrow between the 2 photos..........

Personally, I don't know what to think. I very much doubt his mothers story but I do feel incredibly sorry for her, it just seems so far-fetched. But on the other hand, maybe thats exactly the reason why these people have got away with it for so long.

Very weird. It would be great to think Johnny was still alive though.............

I would LOVE to investigate this case a bit further but wouldn't have a clue where to start. All the information on-line is stuff provided by Johnnys mother. We'd need independent witness accounts. Any ideas?

[lisag]

Guys,

You can go to www.johnnygosch.com and read a whole chapter on-line, for free, of the book Johnnys mother wrote "Why can't Johnny come home", its a very interesting read and should help you make up your mind!

I did read that - its all what his mother says - I need more than just what she says... After reading that and hearing what I have heard, I still dont buy it. I cant believe that there is not one officer and not one FBI agent willing to help this woman out. Maybe at the time, she was having trouble, but not now. If she went to them and said he needed protection, I cant imagine that they would be "non commital".

[blaster]

His ID and story were verified.

http://http://www.americanfreepress.net/RFA_Articles/Kidnapping_Case_Implicates_Top/kidnapping_case_implicates_top.html

http://http://www.donnachapel.com/johnny_gosch.html

This pains me that too many people are willing to write this story off. What bothers me more is that if a child has been gone too long the LE's write them off for dead. I feel this is the wrong thing to do. We should never stop looking, ever. Some of these kids could be hiding out homeless somewhere trying to stay off the "grid".........It's very sad these kids need someone to stand up for them not refuse them help and invalidate their experience. If I had to I would put myself in danger to bring them home but, not without a little back-up of course. I'm in the process of getting some of my own documents together and thinking about making my story public.....(cult related) In fact, I just got verification that there are some documents but, I have to verify my ID before they can send them. So, within a few weeks I'll be going cross country to get most of these together and get them out so stay tuned I promise this will be interesting. But, I have a reason to feel the way I do. I think if anyone pops up you have to give them the benefit of the doubt and listen, then point them in the right direction. Don't shoot them down, help them as much as possible if they are lying that will come out in the long run if not you'll be hero's. LE's and NCMEC do investigate this stuff they just won't talk about it so they won't blow any leads.......dodging bullets is tough work. These kids really need someone to stand up for them because they are broken. Please give them the chance they diserve.....I may be putting my life on the line very soon but, there are things people need to know and I hope I have the attention of all here and elsewhere....I promise I have a really interesting story to tell and I need some open minds.
:truce:

[miles_draken]

The links above didn't work for me, i'd be very interested in reading what was there. There are too many kids dissapearing in this country, there is in fact organized white slavery of children, and too discredit them is to lend a helping hand to those who would take them. Remember, the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist in the first place.

[blueclouds]

CNN NEWS (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/03/08/women.trafficking/)
The day my God died (http://http://thedaymygoddied.com/overview.html) and on and on........yahoo has 469,000 refs. of child sex slavery. But, none of this really happens and children don't really go missing they just get a little misplaced that's all. :liar:
Blaster I truly hope you're not the one in same RE: chapman. The head people here can check your isp addy's. Please don't cause heartaches. No one is saying that it doesn't happen or hasn't happened; but offering up no other concrete proof; how can anyone believe that Noreen truly saw her son. She so badly wanted it to be him and it was the middle of the night.

Don't cause trouble here. You can discuss things and offer opinions without slamming others.

[miles_draken]

I think this is a great forum for discussing these cases, not arguing. I agree that people get pretty upset when their opinions are attacked. My belief is that this forum is used to bounce theories back and forth amoungst users, some of us are seasoned investigators, others are novices. We can all work together and maybe come up with some things that nobody else thought of. I enjoy hearing from all of you regarding this case of Johnny Gosch. If I seem a bit passionate in defense of his mothers beliefs I apologize. This case has haunted me most of my life, and her side is really all I've been able to find. I would love to know LE's side or the FBI's for that matter. If anyone has any information regarding this case from any angle I'd love to read about it. THanks so much guys for contributing to this thread, I enjoy hearing from all of you!

[blaster]

Who's chapman?
the links didn't work for me when I tried them so I'll repost them here.......It's not slamming when you know the truth and want people to see.
Donna Chapel (http://www.donnachapel.com/johnny_gosch.html)
free press (http://www.americanfreepress.net/RFA_Articles/Kidnapping_Case_Implicates_Top/kidnapping_case_implicates_top.html)
I'm just a simple fisherman blessed with many friends.
here's a few more.
Indy media (http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/06/63697.php)
Franklin cover-up (http://www.thelawparty.org/FranklinCoverup/franklin.htm)
more Franklin cover-up (http://www.davidicke.net/tellthetruth/coverups/decamp.html)
This stuff was all over the news last year.
http://blastered0tripod.com/me3.jpg

[VespaElf]

Blaster I truly hope you're not the one in same RE: chapman.

I was thinking about "boy exploited" and that whole fiasco too!!!
:cool:

[tybee204]

One in the same. he is gone.
tybee

[Richard]

A very closely matching crime to the Johnny Gosch kidnapping is that if the abduction of Eugene Martin, also a newsboy, also of Des Moines, Iowa. Eugene was on his paper route early in the morning of 12 August 1984. He was seen talking to a white male who was "about the age of his father". There was nothing suspicious about it, but in a matter of twenty minutes, Eugene disappeared and has not been seen since.
Usually, Gene delivered the papers with his older stepbrother, but on this occasion, he was alone.
Eugene got up that morning at 4:30 and left the house at 5:00. Between 5:45 and 6:05, he was seen folding papers and talking to a man on teh corner only a few blocks from his house. Between 6:10 and 6:15, the bag was on the ground with 10 folded papers in it and Eugene was gone. When calls came in to the paper manager that people were missing their morning newspapers, the manager went out, found the bag and delivered the papers. He did not start looking for Eugene again until 8:40AM. Classic case of someone finding something obviously wrong, but not thinking it was important enough to mention.
Some investigators feel that the two cases (Gosch and Martin) are connected, but there is no physical evidence to link the two.

------------------
EUGENE MARTIN
Non-Family Abduction
DOB: Aug 17, 1970
Missing: Aug 12, 1984
Age at time missing: 14
Age Now: 34
Sex: Male
Race: White
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Brown
Height: 5'0" (152 cm)
Weight: 110 lbs (50 kg)
Missing From: DES MOINES, IA, United States

Eugene was last seen between 5:30-6 a.m. as he was delivering newspapers. A paper bag was found outside of Des Moines with papers still inside. He has a scar on his right knee and has had a broken right wrist.

ANYONE HAVING INFORMATION SHOULD CONTACT
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children
1-800-843-5678 (1-800-THE-LOST) or
Des Moines Police Department (Iowa) - Missing Persons Unit - 1-515-283-4864 Or Your Local FBI

Link
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewPoster&caseNum=601815&orgPrefix=NCMC&searchLang=en_US

[blueclouds]

One in the same. he is gone.
tybee
Thanks tybee. I don't mind if we all disagree here. We can disagree AND RESPECT eachother's opinion at the same time. Being so frustrated and getting angry doesn't help to get our opinions across. I'm guilty of getting too emotional on WS at times, but I hope I never step over the line of slamming someone's opinions for the sake of stating mine.

Johnny Gosch is an interesting and sad story. There was one other boy that was linked to being the same kidnapper. I cannot remember his name. Also there was one that was never linked. I'll see if I can pull up the particulars on them. Very tragic all around. If these were my children; I could only wish them to be in a better place "heaven"; rather than tortured for their entire lives. Nothing could be worse.

EDITED: As I was contemplating the names; I see Richard has posted the one "linked" child so I will look for the others.

[blueclouds]

You may want to read this link as well. AN OPEN LETTER TO NOREEN:
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=37115

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=37118

SOUNDS like some credible people attempting to help her. I understand the email's in Johnny's site no longer work. Maybe Noreen is starting to realize that she may have been used. Who knows.

HERE'S ANOTHER MISSING IOWA CHILD THAT WASN'T CONNECTED. I'D BET HE IS:

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/34dmia.html

Johnny missing 1982; Eugene 1984; Marc 1986 all from Des Moines; Polk County Iowa. Makes me mad that they LE; have not connected all 3 of these boys. All 3 boys caucasian; brown hair parted on the side. All from same area. Some freak taking boys every 2 years. Wonder if there is another pattern somewhere else in the states; every 2 years with missing young caucasian boys... this guy could have set up shop somewhere else.

[2sisters]

I see a possible link between the 3. Maybe someone can look at surrounding states too. Blueclouds, your links seem to say it all about this Gundersen character. Poor Noreen Gosch, as if she hasn't been through enough. I will say a prayer for her.

[Richard]

HERE'S ANOTHER MISSING IOWA CHILD THAT WASN'T CONNECTED. I'D BET HE IS:

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/34dmia.html

Johnny missing 1982; Eugene 1984; Marc 1986 all from Des Moines; Polk County Iowa. Makes me mad that they LE; have not connected all 3 of these boys. All 3 boys caucasian; brown hair parted on the side. All from same area. Some freak taking boys every 2 years. Wonder if there is another pattern somewhere else in the states; every 2 years with missing young caucasian boys... this guy could have set up shop somewhere else.

An interesting case that does seem to have similar elements to the disappearances of Johnny and Eugene. The Doe Network file only states that he went to visit a friend and was never seen again. Unlike Johnny and Eugene, he was not seen with an older man or men - at least not according to the very short write-up in the Doe file.
It is odd that the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) does NOT have Marc listed in their data base. Anybody know why that is? It would be nice to know more about his case.
If the perpetrator of each of these crimes is the same person, it would seem a bit odd for the spacing to be two whole years apart, unless jail time intervened. Perhaps a careful look at similar victims in other states in and around that time would show a pattern. While some pedophiles will go for only one sex, race, size, and age range, others are not as particular.
It is of note that Johnny and Eugene were taken on paper routes, which are very predictable and regular and in the early hours. An abductor can simply wait his chance anywhere along the route. It is likely that the abductor or abductors watched these boys for a long time before they were taken. Could that have been the case with Marc as well? Did he make a regular trip to his friend's house? If so, a house along that route may have been the residence of the perpetrator.

[VespaElf]

One in the same. he is gone.
tybee

AHA!!! How did BC and I know??
:waitasec: Thats some websleuthing!!!!!!!!!!! :)



I don't mind if we all disagree here. We can disagree AND RESPECT eachother's opinion at the same time. Being so frustrated and getting angry doesn't help to get our opinions across. I'm guilty of getting too emotional on WS at times, but I hope I never step over the line of slamming someone's opinions for the sake of stating mine.

I agree and I think we all should try to follow that(I know I do! Ok I at least TRY to! :angel: )


Seriously,I agree Johnny's abduction is very likely connected to other abductions in the area and Im more than happy to pursue that and learn more but I just want to keep the conspiracy"black helicopter" stuff out of it!! :twocents:

[blueclouds]

Richard; there are many cases of kidnapped children that are not in NCMEC databank. I understand the procedure is that LE has to send in the file. I also understand RE: Suzanne Davis/Tonya and a possible link of "Jennifer Klein" - that Jennifer Klein is not in the database of NCMEC as well.

I wish all cases of abduction were listed in there. There is very little information regarding Marc's disappearance all around. I am speculating that his case was not "connected" to the two other boys as not to cause a panic in the community. It was probably dealt with quietly as most child kidnapping cases were back prior to 1990 or so.

Frustrating to say the least.

BTW: Messiecake; I wonder what gave it away hummmm?!!! :rolleyes: I agree that we keep the MIB's out of the conversation. I believe that would be for another more "eclectic" message board. :D

[miles_draken]

I just wanted to follow up with some of the questions in regards to Johnny visiting his mother 14 years after his abduction. I have located court transcripts from Paul Bonacci's case in which he was awarded I believe a Million Dollars from Larry King for sexual abuse ( Franklin Cover-Up Larry King, not CNN personality). In this transcript Noreen talks about the visit and says that she asked to see the boy in questions chest. Her son Johnny had a large birth mark on this chest, and after showing this mark she was convinced it was indeed her son. This thing just keeps going folks, so much information and terrible things that happened to these kids. Johnny still can't come home because his life and his families lives are in great danger. I have made requests for this story to be done in a televised forum. HOpefully something good can come from all these terrible things.

[blueclouds]

I have since heard as well Miles that this Franklin King guy is a professor in Utah. I believe it's the same one. or maybe it was another guy who was part of all this crap. Either way; I cannot believe a college hired some pervert like that.

Something like a birthmark can be faked. There was a case with that Amy woman who went missing on a cruise ship. The "investigator" took the family for over 250,000 grand after supplying a "fake" picture of Amy & her tattoo sitting on a beach. It was a scam.

I don't believe that any of these boys are alive any longer. There are many SAFE PLACES he could go to if he was. Many people would protect him. The fact that this is the one and only time she saw this person leaves me skeptical. I think Johnny is dead; as sad as that is.

Conspiracy's are just that. A conspiracy. VERY few children that are kidnapped remain alive for any amount of time.

Very sad all around.

[Ghostwheel]

Johnny still can't come home because his life and his families lives are in great danger. I have made requests for this story to be done in a televised forum. HOpefully something good can come from all these terrible things.I think what bothers me most is that if Johnny is so scared he cannot come home, and other people have been silenced, why would he risk his whole family's lives by talking to his mother at all? If other people have been silenced, why hasn't his mother been silenced? The scenario make no logical sense if Johnny is in such danger (as he would be if he had been involved with slavers). That would mean the scenario goes like this:
"I am so scared I will be killed if the slavers find out where I am and what I am doing. I'll go visit my mother, who will write all about my story, because she loves me and wants me to be safe and home, and she will be in no danger at all from that."


Or can someone come up with something that actually does make sense that I'm just not seeing here? Why would anyone in fear of his life knowingly endanger his entire family, then leave?

Did his mother think "I'll write all about my meeting Johnny. The slavers who kept him imprisioned and under their control for the past 20 years won't think anything of it, then my whole family will be safe, and Johnny can come home."

[miles_draken]

Johnny came to see his mother in the early morning hours out of the blue with no prior contact and stayed only an hour and a half. He was there primarily to give her names, which she in turn took to the police and claimed to get form an informant, they did nothing. I can understand this story is a bit unbelievable, but I recently read the testimony transcript in the Paul Bonacci civil trial in which he was awarded 1 million from Larry King. If you know about the Franklin Credit Union Scandal then you know what I'm talking about. I'll try to get the link for the transcript, it's worth the read and pertains directly to this case as Noreen testifies. If more of us accept this is going on in our country the harder it is going to be for these sort of perpetrators to continue their evil ways.

[blueclouds]

Did his mother think "I'll write all about my meeting Johnny. The slavers who kept him imprisioned and under their control for the past 20 years won't think anything of it, then my whole family will be safe, and Johnny can come home."

I think Ghost; that his mother SO WANTED TO BELIEVE in anything. THEN when the "conspiracy groupies" got ahold of her, she fell into their trap. I have worked with NUMEROUS parents of missing & murdered children. Trust me; at their lowest point - you can make them believe anything because they so desperately want to believe. It gives them a piece of their child back. I'm so positive that Johnny & the other 2 boys (or more) from Iowa are dead that I'd bet my home & worldly possessions on it.

There are more good guys than bad in the LE, FBI etc that they would know about a slave group out there.

UHHHGGGGGG very frustrating and very sad. Just wish his body was found so this can be put to rest.

[Ghostwheel]

I'll try to get the link for the transcript, it's worth the read and pertains directly to this case as Noreen testifies.I would like to read that. Thank you for the effort.

[emma l]

Either senario- whether Johnny is alive or not is pretty horrific, under the circumstances............. I would be interested to read the transcript though.

What baffles me about the whole thing is the conviction of Johnnys mother. Whatever happened, she REALLY BELIEVES she saw her son after all that time and that he is in some kind of trouble. She has written books about it, appeared on endless talkshows, given seminars and testified under oath in court. It is such a lot of effort for something that is untrue, yet it sounds so far-fetched.

I don't know what to think............

[miles_draken]

So many opinions about this case. After reading all I have I'm firmly convinced that Johnny is alive, it just seems the most plausible. There is simply too much evidence I believe, to discount the story Noreen is telling. She has spent the better part of 22 years with this case full time, hiring private investigators, and getting help from many others. It is my opinion, my very strong opinion, that Johnny, atleast in 1997, was still alive. Now, seven years later, I don't know. I remember hearing her say that she gets a phone call from him every Mothers Day, but as far as I know that is the only on going contact. Here is the court transcript, hopefully this will help some of you in your own opinion on this case.

http://www.ritualabuse.net/franklin.htm

[greenray]

I found this forum when I did a google search on Eugene Martin. 17 years ago I was in a restaurant in an affluent neighborhood of Chicago. As I was leaving I noticed a balled up dollar bill on a nearby table. The table hadn't been cleared yet and I thought someone might think that's garbage and throw it out. I picked it up to give it directly to the waiter. As I walked to the front of the restaurant I uncrumpled the bill and saw written on it "I'm alive Eugene Martin." I thought it was so strange that I kept the bill and a couple of days later I thought to call the National Center for Missing Children. I was shocked when they told me that he was an abducted child. I was told that he was 13 when he was kidnapped and would now be 17. I asked if they wanted me to send them the bill and I was told that I could photocopy it and send it in if I wanted. The person I talked to didn't convey any sense of urgency or even much interest in it.

A few days ago I suddenly wondered if he had ever been found. I have no idea why it occurred to me after all these years. I went to the NCMEC website and saw that he has never been found. For the first time, I read the story about his abduction. Somehow, finding out his story made it seem so much more real and it brought me to tears. I began to wonder if anyone had ever told his family about the message I had found so that they would at least know that he was still alive at that time.

I felt kind of silly but I called NCMEC and asked if there was any record of it and I was told there wasn't. She suggested that I contact the Des Moines police if I wanted any more information. I didn't do it as it seems like such a small piece of information from so long ago.

Anyway, I just thought I'd add that information here. I'm not sure exactly what the purpose of this website is, but people here at least seem interested. I felt so upset that I had apparently been sitting right near Eugene and then found his note and that there was no happy ending.

[Richard]

That is an intriguing story about finding the dollar bill. I wonder if Eugene himself had actually sat in that restaurant, or if the dollar bill had been passed around for a while. It does not surprise me too much to hear that someone said that no record of your call exists. It might actually be in their files, but buried behind other tips and papers. Some old cases have boxes and boxes of papers, notes, tips, etc. Others are probably pretty bare.
Do you still have the bill? I wonder if anyone could do any kind of hand writing analysis on it.
As you have pointed out, a nice thing about this forum, and other websites like it is that these cases are kept alive and people are kept aware of them.

[greenray]

Hi Richard,

At the time, I had the distinct impression that Eugene Martin had actually been in the restaurant because the dollar bill was crumpled up in such a strange way. It was in a very compact ball shape and, after I read what was written on it, I thought that must be why it was crumpled up like that. The person wanted it to be noticed and not just put back into circulation. I certainly noticed it and I've never given any thought to tips left on restaurant tables before or since.

I was much younger then and when I was told that he was 17 I thought well couldn't he get away? Now I realize that an abductor can have enormous power over a victim of any age.

I don't have the actual dollar bill any more. A friend at the time took it to a psychic and then threw it out. I may still have a photocopy of it. I don't know who I'd even give it to.

[amandab]

I don't have the actual dollar bill any more. A friend at the time took it to a psychic and then threw it out. I may still have a photocopy of it. I don't know who I'd even give it to.

Personally, I'd give it to the Des Moines police.....every little bit counts, ya know?

[cppweb]

The reason for the story "Johnny came home one night" was mearly financially motivated. Why? John Decamp and Paul Bonacci.

Mr. Bonacci filed a multi million dollar lawsuit against Larry King and some others, they needed a story that would be "absolutely fantastic" to win the suit. They got their story and guess what? Mr. Bonacci won his case along with a million dollar judgement.



The facts are as follows:



1. Paul Bonacci (The one who says he helped kidnap Johnny) is a pedophile himself. While serving time in prison in Nebraska for molesting a boy, he came up with this story about Johnny. There are numerous affidavits from prison authorities that Mr. Bonacci researched the events and got to know the Gosch family from print. He in essence fell in love with Johnny and wanted to be part of the story which in a sense makes him part f the family. Psychosis speaking of course.



2. A P.I. by the name of Roy Stephens miraculously comes across the Bonacci story and informs the Gosch family. Noreen visits him in prison with Stephens and is taken in by this story. Now keep in mind there is still a reward out for this kid. Stephens is financially motivated here to make something stick so he can get the big bucks. So he more or less feeds Paul the information to tell the Gosch's.



3. As the stories come out of this unbelievable story from Omaha a lawyer comes into the picture, John Decamp. Again what I call a Glory Seeker becomes Mr. Bonacci's attorney. Mr. Decamp is also backed by a right wing religious group called the Nebraska Leadership council, headed by Earl Weaver, the potato chip king. (Lots of money)



4. America's Most Wanted: Actually hired a ex-fbi profiler to get into the case, called in the show "Jimmy" this person gains deep access into the families and groups involved. Spends like 6 months talking and interviewing everyone involved.



5. AMW Gets the 86 Notice: After the initial couple of shows with the investigator under cover, AMW gets a notice from the FBO to stop airing the information about the case, why? Because it is now a FBI fraud case with the Securities Exchange Commission and the IRS.



6. The future: This has been a 12 year ongoing case; started in 1992 and will be closed in a short time to come. The Feds are just trying to align all their ducks in a row and do know the whereabouts of the Gosch child. You will see a complete opposite result as what has been told so far. Bonacci and Decamp as well as Noreen Gosch are in some deep water here along with all the others involved in the Post Events since the kidnapping.



7. Is Johnny alive? That is hard to say, in my mind probably not and was probably killed a day or two after the kidnapping. One thing is for sure he is still on this planet. Nothing leaves the earth.



I personally think someone in that family knows and is responsible for the incident. I also think that is what is going to come out when the indictments are un-sealed sometime in the future by the US Attorneys office.

[VespaElf]

Thank you for that post! Finally a theory that makes sense(but of course Ill say that because it goes along with what Ive been saying from the getgo-Johnny was kidnapped and unfortunately some scuzzy people are out for personal gain and are exploiting him and his family-period.)Please keep us posted on this if you can.Id like to see this resolved so this nonsense can stop.

Take off your tinfoil hats people of earth! Another conspriacy has been debunked!
:p

[lisag]

I too agree that your theory is very interesting and quite possible.

I never believed for a minute that Johnny came after all these years but is still in hiding...

I too believe that Johnny died long ago.

It's sad to think htat his family may have something to do with it - could that be her reason for saying he came to her.... ???

[Capt.]

Hello all,
This is my first post to WS. I came across this subject and felt I had to chime in. The Decamp perp profile is the only profile I am concerned with. The complete story hits close to home as I have lived and worked this area of the country for several years.

Next, let me say that I don't have any new information on Johnny, I don't know who took him and I don't know if he is alive. Yet I believe the Decamp story.

Searching for a metaphore, this story is a BIG piece of meat and is best digested by cutting up into smaller portions.

I am cautious to accept information that needs a line ahead of it saying that it is fact, especially when some of the info refers to the future.

I would say it is imposible that Paul came up with this on his own for money reasons. A person by the name of Lisa Washington first came up with this story in 1985 and was told to a social worker/writen down. It was not believed at the time. This predates Paul's bringing it out and Lisa was not in prison with Paul. Her story included her sister Tracy while being held by a foster home in the Nebraska area. A fantastic story doesn't make it more believable, but just the opposite. I feel that it is important to note that a court judgement was made in favor of Paul and another person, so it was examined in court. Kathleen Sorenson was the original complainant in the Franklin case.
I will add that all the credit card slips for payment of sex was sealed by the judge in Kings case.(lets let all the offenders go free???)

There was 80 children that came forward that was involved with the skandal.
Four made statements with two recanting, later the reason for this was given as a lie or die situation. Lisa W. nor her sister was a part of this group. It is also interesting to note of the 80 children, only the two that held to their story, ended up in jail sending a warning to any others that might want to talk.

It is interesting that John Decamp was also a Republican senator exposing part of the Republican party. I don't find it unusual for a faith based group to support a Rep senator, it seems like more the norm. What is interesting is that this was not a partisan attack. If John was interested in furthering himself he sure wouldn't attack the party he was a member of. A person that follows John's history would find a person that is fairly sqweeky clean. A 10% lawyers fee is not that much and John really doesn't need it. How many senators would you say has a house worth one million? Many!

The many questions of why Paul doesn't do this or why Johnny doesn't do this, to me is meaningless. Brainwashing isn't a very good term for this situation, it might apply better to Patty Hearst, but not Paul, Johnny, or the many other children that was involved. It would be good for anybody to gain depth on this by talking with psychotherapists and deprogrammers on what happens to the developing mind when submitted to torture. Issues of fragmentation and compartimentalism will certainly come up. An organisation in Iowa estimates 3 million people in the U.S. has been exposed to extreme torture. This is based upon the studies of a social scientist, researcher, and deprogrammer. You might get more info by searching on "lynnsart.net".

Loreen devulged Johnny's visit to her, because this was asked of her in court. She certainly had the background to know her own son, including the many different activities they shared. It was through Loreen's work that we have a immediate response from LE in abductions. Iowa was the first and seven more states in the next year.

It is also interesting how many have lost their life over this story.
Owens bro
Boners bro Shawn
Troy Boner
Danny King
Kathleen Sorenson(original complainant in Franklin case)
Gary Caradori and son(investigator for Nebraska senate)
Sheriff at Caradori crash site in Ill.

In cutting up this piece of meat, Mk-Ultra comes up. The book "BlueBird" is excellent on the topic, as well as the CIA's own declassified papers.

The Washington Post paper scan is available on the net with the story of the midnight tours by call boys.

In closing I will add (in the past) that I know several cult deprogrammers and a few survivours of cults in the area of question. With that infomation(much which I am not able to reveal) I find the info by Decamp very believable.

I align myself with Miles and would very much desire more contact with Blaster.

BLASTER?????


Capt.


"Your silence will not protect you"-Audre Lorde

[cppweb]

Then if you look at it more.....Decamp's name shows up all over the place as well as the Nebraska Leadership Council.

Trust me the whold thing is a scam......I know I was there....

[Capt.]

Then if you look at it more.....Decamp's name shows up all over the place as well as the Nebraska Leadership Council.

Trust me the whold thing is a scam......I know I was there....
As I indicated before I don't think that is unusual at all. We have no reason to trust each other. Many people were there period. It would be interesting to know in what capacity you were there.
May I suggest you follow your own direction on this and I will mine, which mine is to protect other survivors, not in finding Johnny. I can not help that some of my leads connect to Omaha.


Based on info from the missing persons website, statistics favor Johnny being alive.

I will venture a guess that he alive, but is not in hiding, at least not from the perps. I further believe he is being used as an example to others to show the level of control. Just a guess.

[VespaElf]

Sorry but statistics DO NOT favor Johnny being alive.

[Capt.]

I'll go back and look under overt sadism again, but it could be I read it wrong. This part was only a guess anyway.

[Capt.]

My reference from the site.

How many missing children are found deceased? What hours are most critical when trying to locate a missing child?
Answer: According to a 1997 study by the State of Washington’s Office of the Attorney General “the murder of a child who is abducted ... is a rare event. There are estimated to be about 100 such incidents in the United States each year, less than one-half of one percent of the murders committed”; however, “74 percent of abducted children who are murdered are dead within three hours of the abduction.”

[2sisters]

If this whole fantastic story is tru then why don't the kids involved step forward. I've heard they are scared and this group is dangerous, but, there a million and 1 people who would be willing to protect and back these kids up were this story true. If Johnny were being monitored and was fearful for his and his families life then why in the world did he show up at his mom's front door? Why risk her life if he undoubtedly would be followed there? Now the child pornographers know where she lives. SHe kept it quiet for 2 years, then tells that he came home that night and about the pornography ring. If all this is true she shouldv'e been killed years ago to keep her quiet, right? Why hasn't she been silenced in some way? I don't know if he is alive or not, I hope he is, but nobody can't be expected to belive that the government and LE are involved in a child pornography ring.

[Capt.]

Please see the other thread I am active on for Jacob. I have provided a link that may help.

[2sisters]

I already have and no offense, it doesn't help.

[Capt.]

If this whole fantastic story is tru then why don't the kids involved step forward. I've heard they are scared and this group is dangerous, but, there a million and 1 people who would be willing to protect and back these kids up were this story true. If Johnny were being monitored and was fearful for his and his families life then why in the world did he show up at his mom's front door? Why risk her life if he undoubtedly would be followed there? Now the child pornographers know where she lives. SHe kept it quiet for 2 years, then tells that he came home that night and about the pornography ring. If all this is true she shouldv'e been killed years ago to keep her quiet, right? Why hasn't she been silenced in some way? I don't know if he is alive or not, I hope he is, but nobody can't be expected to belive that the government and LE are involved in a child pornography ring.I realized my link may not answer all your questions and I may not be able to either. According to the story her husband was also in on it so they knew where she lived. She is alive (I'm guessing) because she does not present a risk to them. Like you asked for before, she has no proof so what risk does she present. I agree it is very hard to believe, but declassified documents exist of the governments envolvement. I can't explain why the documents exist if what they outline doesn't. May I add that during my military service people in the CIA were putting drugs in the body bags.

As to why Johnny did this and didn't do that, to me is not material, with the understanding of what the conditions did to his mental development. It is very likely that he is now a pedophile also.

My only connection with any of this is my experiences in cult deprogramming.
I have no proof only my experiences which I can't deny.


p.S. your a fast reader!

[2sisters]

I know that cults exist and I am not an expert in deprogramming, I know that there are deprogrammers or whatever you would call them and I know what they do. I just don't think it is the case here. It just doesn't add up. Sorry.

[Capt.]

that's ok. I only believe that Decamps story is plausable based on my own experience of cult behavior/trauma/programming.

The story is a big one and hard to swallow. There was a lot going on. I have to break it up to make sense of it. Cppweb's posting leaves a lot unanswered for me. There seems to be support from other areas of info for Decamps story.

I also have a copy of the Decamp video that was suppose to be aired on Discovery Channel, but was pulled.

A search on the word "xeper" on the web will get you some of the perp sites.

[Capt.]

I'm out of here, until I see Blasters post or something that goes along with Decamps profile. I'm not going to waste time defending what I support. I'll respond if I see something relevent.

Peace, good luck
Capt.

[VespaElf]

I'm out of here, until I see Blasters post or something that goes along with Decamps profile. I'm not going to waste time defending what I support. I'll respond if I see something relevent.

Peace, good luck
Capt.

Blaster is banned from here because-surprise!-he's a scam artist who claims to be an abducted child ,now grown,who was abducted by one of your crazy cults!

Backing him up does nothing for your credibility!!!!!!!!

[Capt.]

Blaster is banned from here because-surprise!-he's a scam artist who claims to be an abducted child ,now grown,who was abducted by one of your crazy cults!

Backing him up does nothing for your credibility!!!!!!!!I am not seeking credibility with you. Cults exist. Mind control exists. Sometimes they are one and the same.

Do some study on this, other than the NE that you have indicated you read in Walmart.

Yes they are crazy cults, go to xeper.org for an example.

You are not able to explain why declassified documents refer to MK projects.

You have absolutly no background in this area.

You have repeatedly used "Coast to Coast, words such a wacko, and UFO's to attemp to discredit and control threads on this forum. I never said anything about UFO's, you did. I did not bring up Coast to Coast, you did.

Rather than look at the facts you choose to try to "win" threads by terms to trigger by exageration. You are found out.

You can not prove a negative.
It is like this, I can not prove that you are not a moron, but you may be able to prove that you are.

The medical community accepts mpd/did, mind control, and cults, because they have to deal with it. They are the ones that treat missing persons when they are found alive. Get over your fear of the truth.

Rather than somebody that is truly concerned with the health of the missing, you are a person obsessed with crime in the news.

You have not responded to me after I provided references from MCNEC on statistics that support Johnny being alive. After you said they didn't. Could be your too proud to admit your wrong.

May I say again,

Explain how declassified documents exist on mind control. They are available from the national archives.


It is amazing the power you wield, being able to cast people from the list because they don't believe as you do. Let me test your great powers, get me kicked of the list because I support the scenero you provided on Blaster. Not that I support Blaster, but I know the scenero is valid.

Now, go pet your bull(shiit)dog.

P.S. I don't see how anybody can claim any compassion for the missing and discredit somebody that claims they have been in a like situation as a scam artist. Who is scamming who here?

[mom-a-licious]

I've been reading some posts about far-reaching, international conspiracies among some very powerful people and organizations devoted to child slavery, and some sort of "Monarch" project involving brainwashing and mind control.

Of course I do know that kids are abducted, and sexually abused, and they are threatened, etc, and that sometimes they may even be sold.

My question is this: If such a vast, powerful, moneyed and politically strong group of people are running such a network, why in the world would an organization such as this need to kidnap any paper-boys, and why would they have to use a common street criminal to do so?

Any organization such as the one being referred to would have access to any number of kids, from any number of sources. They could have a vast "stable" of people giving birth to kids, which in just a few short years they would be able to have access to for whatever reason they wanted. Not to mention all the people you read about from time to time who are actually trying to sell their kids for drugs, or all the runaways on the street who would go with someone like this for the promise of drugs or money or just a place to stay.

Many sources, yet they would kidnap someone off the street?

This sounds like a horrible scenario, but it is certainly no more far-fetched and actually more easy and less risky for such a powerful, rich group of people to use some of the tactics noted above.

I suppose one might argue that they want someone who has just led a "normal" life, so they can practice their mind-control techniques; etc.

Most people though who want an "object" to gratify their unusual desires want just that, though---an "object"; as long as it looks and maybe talks the part, they don't care if it was plucked from suburbia then "brainwashed" first before it comes to them.

And, if the need to mind-control was so necessary, these same all-powerful people could raise a kid to a certain age in a very "normal" manner, then do all the brainwashing they wanted starting at a certain age. Also, as the kids would have been born and raised in the world of the "cult", they wouldn't have any outside families or pasts to go back to, to tell them any stories of what was going on inside the organization.

SO...I really wonder why any such powerful group would want or need to go through all the random selection, kidnapping and brainwashing to get what they want, when if they are so rich and connected they could set up a process that would get them what they want without all the trouble.

Makes the whole child-abduction/far-reaching conspiracy thing seem fairly far-fetched to me.

[Capt.]

My guess to your question. I believe in 20 yrs there as been a lot of change within the sub culture we are talking about. I believe they do have a large supply of bodies now, thou they would be open to easy pickings. Back when Johnny was taken, the supply was not as plentyful. Nowdays most are taken from their own ranks. Such has been the case a person I know of, who had been reabducted twice after trying to leave the group. Why use a street criminal? Because of lower risk.

The subculture has many resources yes, but not always located where they want them.

Normal life ain't it. Ages are. Those that have had incest at an early age have a higher level of disassociation. It is easier to fragment these subjects. The age that a child learns primary colors is important. If they are not able to disassociate they really don't have much of a use except to introduce trauma to their attending members. They use animals in the same way.

If a person wants an "object" for their desires they have more problems than just that. Their desires are violent, their sex is violent, they act out in violence.

Desires has that connotation of sex and I don' believe that is highest purpose. Like a drug mule or to do something without being able to trace it back. Someone to control. I really don't like the term brainwashed as it is something I reserve for the spritual cults, say like Moonies or Patty Hearst(political group). The level of control I am talking about comes from introducing trauma for long periods at the edge. This is an effort to create alters and program those alters from the most most intense fear immaginable. The mafia was able to control by fear, but it is still not as intense as what I am referring to.

In some cases I understand the MC starts at birth as a premmie. The more trauma a person can endure the stronger they are. Only the strong last. True there are those that know nothing else but the cult life and others that didn't last that long.

"SO...I really wonder why any such powerful group would want or need to go through all the random selection, kidnapping and brainwashing to get what they want, when if they are so rich and connected they could set up a process that would get them what they want without all the trouble."

I really don't believe cold kidnapping is practiced as much as in the past for some of the reasons you have given. The programming part still exists so that they can control by fear and the "process".

I agree, it is the most far-fetched disturbing thing I have ever heard. I say that everyday I look at someone that was exposed to it.


May I add some government info: The study of the Tuskagee airmen with untreated syphilis went on for 40 years. After 30yrs a medical report was published in the Journal for Medicin. After 10 more years it was halted because an investigative journalist wrote about it and then people decided to be upset about it.

Senator Kennedy held a closed door investigation on the declassified papers that were found with MK content. This was in the mid 70's. The transcript is available online.

Clinton started an investigative commite to investigate reported radiation tests on U.S. citizens. 52 people gave testimony of the radiation test which also included MK. This is available online. It was in 1995 that Clinton felt it was needed to pass a presidential order banning experimentation on U.S. citizens in light of the investigation. This is found online in his new presidential library.


I imagine messie will attack this post also. I don't know of any cold cult abductions that have taken place, I only think it is very plausable in Johnnys case and others in the same local 3 hour radius.

[cppweb]

--Darn I hate Vbulletin Editors--

O.K. I have read all the threads from my original post. I must say I find it hard to believe that actual people actually believe the Noreen/Decamp/NLC story.

Fraklin Coverup - Yes it did happen, the missing 39 million was in fact traced and accounted for. Mr. King had a lavish lifestyle, a gambling problem and was a drug/alcohol addict. That spells trouble for anyone who is in charge of a financial institution. It's funny that all those "thousands of photos" that Rusty Nelson has in his posession have never been seen.

Gary Caradori - His plane crash was a result of engine trouble and a well known flaw in the model of aircraft he had. It is unfortunate that his plane was not outfitted with the replacement part. Read the FAA accident report. As far as the "military vehicles" picking up his plane is pure and utter crap. I have talked to the neighboring farmers and towns folk, neither of them report "military" personel or equipment. I have even seen local photos of the cleanup from local media outlets and citizens.


Leonard John Gosch - Johnny's father. I have talked to the close neighbors that lived in the same culdasact as the gosch's. They all have stated that Mr. Gosch was a strange character and they do not trust him. It is also a known fact that the Gosch's were going through marital problems at the time and before the abduction. Doesn't mean alot but has some clues here.


The Johnny Funds - I have researched and added up all the donations that the Gosch's have recieved since the day after to today's date. The total donation $ is around 1.9 million dollars. That's a bunch of cash which can spell motive. Where did all the money go? That is what the US Attorneys office in Des Moines wants to know also. Could this be spelling out another entirely different scam? Could of the whole thing be faked for monatary gain?


Eugene Martin - Clearly a runaway from a abusive family. Used the Gosch saga as cover.


John Decamp - Got tons of cash for his political runs for office. Where exactly did all that money come from. I think he is as sinister as the made up stories about the other business peoples in Omaha. Do your homework people and dont make stories up unless you see the facts and figures. Research is the only true option in solving cold cases.

So you see really this thing had gotten way out of hand and control, now both sideas are blaming eachother with wild accusations and rumors of which all have no merit.

Logic only tells us if the Gosch kid was kidnapped by a pedophile he is most certainly deceased. As per 99% all other sexually motivated abductions.

Do the homework and you will see the culprit(s)

[2sisters]

I hate to ask this question, but I saw the refrences to the Goschs' and I don't want to accuse them of anything BUT do they belive this story or are they involved in the alleged scam? I hate to think that a family would profit off of their missing child but its possible I guess. It is a sad story no matter how it happened.

[cppweb]

2sisters all I can tell you is if you take the "hollywood" feel out of this case you can come down to reality and it all makes sense. I personally believe that someone in the Gosch family knows. Yes I think that someone in the immediate family is involved.

The Federal Gov wouldn't have a 12 year long case if they didn't believe that something is a miss here.

We will all find out in a few months as the case is finally coming to an end. I have been told indictments will be un sealed and arrests will be made.

[cppweb]

Oh yeah another thing......if Johnny was kidnapped into a pedophile ring, surely there would be pictoral evidence floating around the web. So far there is nothing that has showed up to this point.

Why I know all this? I am a law enforcement liaison that writes studies on famous and old cases for educational purposes. This case has came into my desk about 13 years ago as per the AMW shows. I was there for all the segment filmings as a advisor adn I have met all the parties involved including Rusty Nelson.

Again I must say that the show was cancelled due to the fact the FBI and SEC started an investigation into the financial status of the not for profit groups and family financials.

I have written a book about the whole case starting weeks before the abduction to present day. It is a complete detailed date by date refrence.

Note: Paul Bonacci has indicated that he was also involved in the Wetterling case, well he stuck his foot in his mouth on that one because MN DCI knows who the perp is but do not have the evidence to make an arrest. So by Mr. Bonacci making those statement just shows you he is full of crap and is a mixed up nut case as well as a pedophile (Book explains his positions)

It is completely sad and is a travisty of peoples faith and true hearted actions all for nothing. There are going to be many people ticked off once the truth is told.

[miles_draken]

Well, if all this truth is out there then why isn't somebody spilling the beans! Noreen Gosch even admitted in an interview that she believes her husband was involved in the whole thing. A lot of bad seeds roll out when we tip over the apple cart folks, there is the possibility a lot of this is true, and some very powerful people are involved. People involved around this case have been killed or silenced in some other way, facts are facts. When you illiminate the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, is the answer. I hope the truth does come out and we find out what really happened. Eugene Martin by the way is considered to be kidnapped by the same people who took Johnny.

[cppweb]

Miles, just about 2/12 months ago there was a team of law enforcement agents with Iowa DCI, FBI and West DesMoines PD and the Polk County Sheriff's dept. digging up around the area where John Gosch had his hobby farm northwest of Des Moines. John used to sell seed and used this plot to do his seed/planting tests and store all his personal stuff including a Korean war era jeep. Well in that jeep under the passenger seat (There is a compartment) was a bunch of tapes, tapes that were telephone recordings of Noreen for a period of three months after the AMW story. Now that is strange. Those tapes are now in the hands of the Iowa DCI for review.

This is what I think went down.

Leonard and Noreen were having marital problems. With Leonard's psychotic history I think he hatched a scheme to have his kid taken by an associate in order to make his marriage stronger. You see Johnny was a momma's boy all the way and Leonard was jealous of that. I think the original scheme was to have Johnny go missing and then the father would find him thus making the marriage better.

But it got all out of hand and he paid his associate to "take out the kid" for fear of being found out. Financial records show $5000.00 taken out of his checking account 2 days after the kidnapping. Sept. 07 1982. He has stated in interviews by law enforcement that he used the money to get supplies to help find his son. But no proof of any materials was ever found.

Phone records do indicate a phone call to the Gosch residence at 3:27am Sunday morning lasting 32 seconds and coming from the Souix City exchange. They dont have the number only the area code due to phone technologies at that time.

As far as the rest, it's all made up by a bunch of right wing christian fundamentalists that were seeking a political seat and this is where John Decamp comes in along with the Nebraska Leadership Confrence and many others. Hell at one tie everybody and their brother cashed in on this case.

There are no satanist/pedophile/secret goverment/shadow government groups responsible, there is no connection to the New World Order and Mind Control. It just is not feasible. Only in Hollywood my friend.

[blueclouds]

There are no satanist/pedophile/secret goverment/shadow government groups responsible, there is no connection to the New World Order and Mind Control. It just is not feasible. Only in Hollywood my friend.


That's right, a Hollywood story exactly. Do you think the dad set up someone to "fake" an appearance by Johnny years later or do you think Noreen knows and just made stuff up to sell her book?

[cppweb]

Noreen came up with that story for Paul Bonacci and John Decamp in order to get that Million dollar judgement. She saw $$ in her eyes because she is basically broke. She thought she would make tons of cash off her book, but it basically flopped and sold only about 2000 copies. Didn't even make enough money to cover the publishing fees.

[cppweb]

http://www.tymezones.com/forum/index.php?

[TisHerself]

So what about the other paper boy who went missing 2 years later? Do you think Leonard had something to do with that?

[miles_draken]

I've never heard any of the evidence against his father in this case, only the suspicion that he was somehow involved. Could you tell me where you found this at, I would love to read about it. I'm certainly open to other theories about what happened to Johnny, I just feel that there is reason to believe Noreens story at this time, partly because nothing else has come up, no body has been found, and she insists Johnny himself gave the info to her. I would love to read about this development, I can't seem to find any info on it. THanks!

[miles_draken]

Hasn't been any activity on this thread for awhile and I still haven't gotten an answer about where the info on Johnny's father came from. Any help would be appreciated! They found BTK, they can find out what happened to a paper boy!

[HollywoodBound]

I was wondering if anyone knows whether or not the mother had to submit to a lie detector test and police questioning after she made the statements about her son coming to visit her?
-Linda

[keithjfro]

I remember reading in the Rocky Mountain News in either 1983 or 1984 that a woman in Chicago was approached by Johnny and he said "Please lady, help me" before two men grabbed him and threw him in a truck and took off.

Also check out this latest bizarre twist.......

Ex-FBI Gunderson: Gannon is Gosch

http://rense.com/general63/th_gannonflip7.jpghttp://rense.com/general63/th_gannonflip1.jpgTed Gunderson, formerly the FBI Special Agent in Charge of the Los Angles office, and for more than 25 years a private investigator, appeared on the "Mysteries of the Mind" radio program March 8 where he confirmed that he has "a credible, reliable source" that says "Jeff Gannon" is indeed kidnapped paperboy Johnny Gosch.

Gunderson claimed that "Gannon" has scar on right cheek; and Noreen Gosch has looked at the mark on "Gannon" in photographs and said it was the same as that as on her son.

Gunderson agrees with analysis on the Internet that a birthmark (Gosch's is said to be in the "shape of South America") looks to have been removed from Gannon's chest.

Gunderson said, "I think Jeff Gannon is Johnny Gosch, and I think he planned this to get even with them for screwing up his life from age 12 on." Gunderson suspects Gannon's planned book, as reported by the Russian press, "will be truthful and he will expose these people."

Later in the program, host Alex Merklinger, a long time correspondent of Mrs. Gosch, received an email from Noreen Gosch wherein she said that "Jeff Gannon" is living in the Dupont Circle area of Washington, DC and is not in hiding. She asked Gunderson's opinion of "Gannon"'s safety.

Here's the audio; Gunderson calls in about 29:40 into the program:
http://www.total411.info/audio.gif(Windows Media Player) (http://interface.audiovideoweb.com/lnk/ca25win25003/archives_2004/MOM20050308.wma/play.asx) | Listen here via: MP3 Stream (http://www.freedomandtrust.com/mp3_metafiles/march_05/mar_08_05.m3u) | Listen here via: MP3 Download (http://interface.audiovideoweb.com/lnk/ca25web26000/archives_2005/MOM20050308.mp3/play)

[atx]

Here is a very revealing interview with John DeCamp:


http://www.sf.indymedia.org/uploads/decamp4.mp3 (http://www.sf.indymedia.org/uploads/decamp4.mp3)

I am a believer in the Franklin scandal. Here are some of the more convincing points:

-In his book “The Franklin Cover-Up” John DeCamp names several powerful people (politicians, media figures, etc.) as being involved with the child prostitution ring. Despite these people being “accused” of such crimes, not one of these people has tried to take him to court for slander in order to clear their names.

-Way too many people (at least 15) that were close to this case died in mysterious circumstances.

-Perhaps the most convincing evidence was given in the testimony of the children. They described being flown to these orgies to service politicians and businessmen. That claim alone is not necessarily solid evidence, however what they described is the key element. Paul Bonacci claims to have been flown to Dallas for the 1984 Republican Convention and he described in detail the ranch where the party took place (DeCamp later confirmed the info). In addition to that Bonacci described to a “T” being taken to what we now know to be Bohemian Grove (DeCamp didn’t even know what Bohemian Grove was until after he wrote the book). You have to ask yourself how can these orphans from Nebraska make up stories that included such accurate details of places and events so far away?

For those of you who are not familiar with Bohemian Grove I would recommend you check out this link:

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/grove.asp (http://www.apfn.org/apfn/grove.asp)

Also a reporter named Alex Jones actually snuck into Bohemian Grove and captured the “Cremation of Care” ceremony of his video “Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove”. This can be downloaded for free here:

http://www.technoslavery.com/documentary/ (http://www.technoslavery.com/documentary/)

[atx]

3. As the stories come out of this unbelievable story from Omaha a lawyer comes into the picture, John Decamp. Again what I call a Glory Seeker becomes Mr. Bonacci's attorney. Mr. Decamp is also backed by a right wing religious group called the Nebraska Leadership council, headed by Earl Weaver, the potato chip king. (Lots of money)
John DeCamp was originally sent in to debunk the whole thing, however as he did his research he became convinced that the allegations were in fact true. Per his own words in an interview he did:


JD:Stories started floating out as always happens when some incident like that occurs and some of the stories involved missing money that was used for this and that but some of those stories were even strange. They were coming from kids all over. Young kids - 16, 14, 13 - kids telling about how they had been on Larry's private jet to this party or that party. Or that they had been at the Republican National Convention here or they had been at this political event in Washington and the stories had to do with they were there and were used as drug couriers. You know 13, 14-year old kids back then going through the airport could get through without anyone asking twice about anything. They pack them full of cocaine or whatever on little packs they'd carry on their bodies, between their legs, etc, etc. - young boys, young girls. And the kids also were telling these stranger tales that seemed bizarre at the time: that they had had sex or were involved in sex with this or that famous politician or businessman or whatever.

And I was one of the first ones who stood up and said this has got to be the most hilarious, ridiculous story I've ever heard. First of all, I knew Larry King. What the heck! I was head of banking at the time he was when he was doing his banking stuff, the head of the senate banking committee here in Nebraska. So I said, “It's absurd.” Well the stories started cropping up more and more and I said something else and I said look if I believe even one of these crazy stories I'd be the first one to stand up and demand that something be done. Then I got a letter from a kid named Paul Bonacci who was in a jail in Omaha. And he said, “Look, if you come and talk to me, I can show you that these aren’t just fake tales.”

AJ: Now later, you took his diary that went back like 5 years and had ink experts and forensics experts look at it. He had written all this stuff down.

JD: Yeah, that was the strange thing about this kid. I wish I had been able to do that throughout life but anyway when he was a little boy, he was about 18 when I had meet him in jail, 17 or 18. And as a young kid his uncle or grandfather or somebody had taught him religiously to keep a diary where you mark things down everyday. Well, he did it and he did it in detail. So when I went and visited with him and he told me these strange tales and then you had the head of psychiatry from one of the major medical institutions in the state say, "Hey, this kid he ain't crazy. He's a multiple personality and he's probably telling the truth because multiples don't need to lie. They just switch personalities.”

Anyway, so to make a long, long bizarre story short. I found out that he was in jail because he had been one of those intimately involved in all this, and he had to be shut up real quick. I’m making that as a conclusion now – at the time I didn’t realize that. But and so they locked him up and charged him with touching another boy on the outside of his pants, a cousin or something.

AJ: Senator, talk right into your telephone for me.

JD: Anyway, they have him there and I finally agreed I would represent him and that led to a long, long tale that's got me deeply involved in researching and investigating the whole collapse of that credit union and the personalities involved. Ultimately, on the advice of my best friend, closest friend, godfather, whatever, eventually writing a book because he told me that’s what I should probably do to protect myself. And that man was a man named Bill Colby. About the time that I started writing the next book, Bill, as you know was head of the CIA and ended up floating dead in a pond somewhere. But I won't get into that right now. Anyway, so I wrote the book and as I got at the very beginning of this story and working on it, one of the things that I did do was as I say, as you say, obtain the diaries of this young boy to see just what he did say and then I had them checked.

AJ: And it wasn't just that. I mean they've got…

JD: Forensic experts and the forensics were because somebody said he could have just made this all up later. He could have made this up later. And so I wanted to make sure that this wasn't done. So we had forensic examiners said that this ink was done at a certain time and this could of only been done and on and on. Anyway, to get to the heart of the discussion…

AJ: One more point, Senator John Decamp, because I've actually seen the Discovery Channel documentary that never aired and we actually played it here locally in Austin. I was sent a copy of it. They found hundreds of videotapes in King's office. The police saw it and freaked out, hid it and never released it and for all those other children, people actually got convicted of this stuff.

JD: Oh, yeah.

AJ: I want people to understand. This all happened folks.

JD: This isn't a fantasy. I ended up winning a million dollars on behalf of, against awful, awful, awful overwhelming odds, including the Omaha World Herald newspaper that attacked me so viciously because one of the key individuals that I got locked up in prison was their editor - one of their editors - another individual. But anyway…

AJ: People are going to prison for this… [Cross-talk]

JD: Jack got released from prison here about what 8 or 10 months ago.

AJ: Hold on. And you were actually just out of the senate. You were hired to go whitewash the operation because you know this is ridiculous.

JD: That's what I was hired for. Yeah, yeah. But I did the opposite.

[blueclouds]

sighhhhhhhhhhhhh ATX there is nothing to this at all. Conspiracy theories once more. Gosch is not Gannon.... CLEARLY not a facial match at all.... and everything else that's posted.....

PLEASE STEVE/BOYEXPLOITED; give it a rest. No one wants to listen to this.

EDITED TO ADD: EVEN NOREEN GOSCH REFUSES TO CONFIRM OR DENY THAT THIS MIGHT BE JOHNNY.

WELL HELOOOOOOOOOOOO, If it was my child, I'd want an immediate DNA test.... there's enough people out there that could protect him. This is a joke. And a lame one. I feel very bad for Noreen as she is in dire need of psychological counselling and more. I equally feel bad for you ATX, you need to leave this alone and get some help too.

[keithjfro]

Yeah I don't get that either. If it were my son I'd want to do DNA testing ASAP.


I don't think he was killed though, I also don't think it was an inside job.

[2sisters]

Why would someone keep doing this, the boy exploited thing? It is not a funny game to play with people. Child abduction is a very serious matter and not a good subject for insane jokes such as, "I'm Doug Chapman", that was an awful thing to do to a family. Why in the world would you do that? Johnny is probably not alive anymore. If he is dead, I hope his remains can be found soon so this can all end. If he is alive, then where is he?

[atx]

Before you continue to accuse me of being someone else, I am new to the board and have never posted here before. If you want the mod to check the ISP to prove this then go ahead, you have my permission.

Secondly, if you look at my posts I never even mentioned Gosch, let alone implied that he is in fact Gannon! So stop trying to pin that on me. If you want to reply to my posts then why don't you address the info I posted?

And last but not least for those of you who may have a hard time believeing that these pedophile sex slavery rings do exist, here is a link to several stories about governments being involved:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/archive_elite_sex_ring.html

[Jeana (DP)]

Okay - let's get back to the topic and drop this other stuff please.

[blueclouds]

:truce: OK JEANA.... SORRY :angel:

My 2cents... I don't buy into conspiracy theories.... if y'all want to, whatever.
Johnny Gosch is long deceased. Give this little boy a rest folks. He's not coming back. Him and 2 other boys... probably buried in the same area.

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm not speaking to any of the stuff posted, except to say that ATX is a new member is NOT a banned member who returned.

[miles_draken]

There is no evidence to support that Johnny is in fact deceased. If we are basing it on other child kidnappings then that isn't proof at all, it's just a likelihood. My feeling all along has been that he is infact alive. I hope some closure can come someday for this family.

[atx]

I'm not speaking to any of the stuff posted, except to say that ATX is a new member is NOT a banned member who returned.Thank you Jeana for clarifying that! Blueclouds I didn't intend to get into a shouting match with you and I am sorry if we got off on the wrong foot. However I felt very disrespected in the fact that you were making false accusations about me and that your responses were directed at me personally and not any of the information I was presenting. In the future I would hope that if you disagree with my views or information you would post information that disputes it rather than slam me.

PS - I'll take that $1000 in cash please :woohoo:

[2sisters]

Does anyone know if there have ever been any leads, confirmed sightings etc forJohnny or any of the other missing DesMoines boys or has the cases been cold from the start?

[blueclouds]

While I appreciate the clarification and all.... I MYSELF have also confirmed with LE TODAY... that our dearly beloved "person" boyexploited has left California.... While I have no 100% proof that he is in Texas.... there was a phone number from that area by him left for one of the investigators RE: DNA testing and the update for chapman family.

NOW this BY NO MEANS ..... MEANS I am pointing any fingers... I just thought I'd call up some LE to find out what else is going on with our old friend.


So with that said, I'm not giving up a $1000.00 until I find out where our friend is at.
Nite all.

[VespaElf]

While I appreciate the clarification and all.... I MYSELF have also confirmed with LE TODAY... that our dearly beloved "person" boyexploited has left California.... While I have no 100% proof that he is in Texas.... there was a phone number from that area by him left for one of the investigators RE: DNA testing and the update for chapman family.

NOW this BY NO MEANS ..... MEANS I am pointing any fingers... I just thought I'd call up some LE to find out what else is going on with our old friend.


So with that said, I'm not giving up a $1000.00 until I find out where our friend is at.
Nite all.

I myself find it interesting a new poster would pick this thread of all threads to choose from to post on esp. since they claim they don't know anything about Johnny.If my "hinky meter" getting raised causes ANOTHER post of mine to get deleted so be it but Im with Carey on this one!! HINKY METER IS AT FULL ALERT!!

[blueclouds]

Hey MESSIE! Luv ya dear. My intention is not to point fingers at anyone at all..... including our new poster ATX!

I just wanted to hear what my contact at the LE said about our old friend and since I haven't been in touch with him (LE guy) for awhile, so I thought I'd touch base. I don't want anymore posts deleted and I'm not going to make anymore accusations.

I'm simply going to relay things I can prove to the MODS if they call upon me, especially when I get confirmation emails from the Law Enforcement themselves.

AND I DO CAUTION PEOPLE REGARDING OUR FORMER BOYEXPLOITED.... as one of the emails he sent me stated there would be more children in the EAST GOING MISSING..... HOW WOULD HE KNOW THAT????

NOW.... I AGREE WITH JEANA - let's get back to discussing Johnny and our POV on his case.

(HUGS MESSIE) You're ONE OF A KIND LADY!!!!! :blowkiss:

[atx]

I don't know what I need to do to disprove the accusations you make of me. I am sorry that you are suspicious and find it hard to believe that a new poster would come to the board and make "educated" comments on this case. I have been researching these two cases for the last 6 months or so, the Franklin scandal first caught my interest because I was born in Nebraska. From there I uncovered the ties to Johnny's case. To be honest I was doing a Google search on "Johnny Gosch" and this board was one of the search results. I read through some of the posts and thought this would be a place that I could engage in thoughtful and educated conversation, never in my wildest dreams did I anticipate that my posting would put me at the focus of an identity scandal. I may be wrong but I was under the assumption that this board isn't about US but the information that we have to share...speaking of which no one has addressed the information in my first two posts.

[atx]

I myself find it interesting a new poster would pick this thread of all threads to choose from to post on esp. since they claim they don't know anything about Johnny.If my "hinky meter" getting raised causes ANOTHER post of mine to get deleted so be it but Im with Carey on this one!! HINKY METER IS AT FULL ALERT!!
Could you please point out where I claimed that I don't know anything about Johnny? All I mentioned about Johnny was that I did not make the claim that he was Gannon. Again if you would investigate the information instead of trying to jump to conclusions you would not continue to put your foot in your mouth. :hand:

[blueclouds]

Could you please point out where I claimed that I don't know anything about Johnny? All I mentioned about Johnny was that I did not make the claim that he was Gannon. Again if you would investigate the information instead of trying to jump to conclusions you would not continue to put your foot in your mouth. :hand:
WE'RE NOT POINTING FINGERS ANYMORE... I am simply stating the information I have since received. OK???? Like Jeana asked us, let's get back to talking about Johnny.....

If I update people on BoyExploited person, that DOES NOT mean I'm jumping on you at all. If someone doesn't want to debate the merits you're pointing out, they don't have to.

You're entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to disagree.

[Jeana (DP)]

WE'RE NOT POINTING FINGERS ANYMORE... I am simply stating the information I have since received. OK???? Like Jeana asked us, let's get back to talking about Johnny.....

If I update people on BoyExploited person, that DOES NOT mean I'm jumping on you at all. If someone doesn't want to debate the merits you're pointing out, they don't have to.

You're entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to disagree.


:blowkiss:

Thanks ya'll!!!

[atx]

WE'RE NOT POINTING FINGERS ANYMORE... I am simply stating the information I have since received. OK???? Like Jeana asked us, let's get back to talking about Johnny.....

If I update people on BoyExploited person, that DOES NOT mean I'm jumping on you at all. If someone doesn't want to debate the merits you're pointing out, they don't have to.

You're entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to disagree.
Please do continue to keep us updated on your search for boyexploited, as soon as you find him I will be glad to accept the $1000 and an apology :innocent:

[blueclouds]

Please do continue to keep us updated on your search for boyexploited, as soon as you find him I will be glad to accept the $1000 and an apology :innocent:
done deal!!!! :blowkiss: and I don't think he's you, alright? !!

[atx]

It's all good :dance:

[miles_draken]

seems everything has gotten a bit off topic in this forum. There is still a missing boy out there who, dead or alive, needs a conclusion to his story. I've always felt this case was a very solvable one. I think Johnny's father needs to be located and asked some very serious questions. I would also be interested to hear from Noreen herself on any updates in the case that she is aware of. There just doesn't seem to be any new evidence or answers coming out.

[atx]

I agree that from the interviews I have heard of Noreen that the father did act very suspiciously around the time of the disappearance. The phone calls in the middle of the night and the fact that the morning of JG's abduction was the only time the father did not accompany him on the paper route are dead give-a-ways. I wonder where he is nowadays?

[miles_draken]

The last interview that I heard Noreen doing she said she had no knowledge of his current whereabouts. ONe can only speculate that he was somehow involved, or distraught beyond belief and simply fell out of sight. It's a strange case to say the least.

[miles_draken]

i would be interested to know if cppweb's book has been released yet. He seems to have all the information on this case and some pretty strong opinions. I wonder if there is hard facts to back it up. I continue to be frustrated with this case as developments are so sporadic. Now with this guy in DC claiming to be Johnny GOsch I just wonder if we will ever know the truth.

If anyone has something new to report on this case I would appreciate it. A most frustrating case to be sure.

[jamis]

I live in West Des Moines and have been intritgued with the case from the get go...OUr police did botch the case. I hope for Noreens sake that this is JOhnny and the whole mess is now out in the open it will never be over with. sad to say, if it is Johnny then he will never be left alone (or alive)???

[Izzy Mae]

have you seen the video floating around the internet on this stuff? I posted it on another thread yesterday Click here for thread (look for the #6 post, I made) it's amazing...

edit to add: I was going to mention this, on that video, it said that the main LE guy, heading the investigation for johnny (I'm not sure which one exactly, either the one forced to resign, OR that guys boss) both would go to nebraska for those "sick parties." anyway, one of the young girls forced into the sex ring ended up getting pg by one of them -- have you heard anything about that? I'm new to this whole story... and have been reading on all of it, but have so many questions to ask -- it doesn't seem like there is much interest, maybe because it's been discussed and placed on the back burner, of course since I'm just hearing it, I really want to talk about it, I have sooo many questions.

[atx]

Here is some info pertaining to what you mentioned:
http://www.tedgunderson.com/Investigations/Russell%20Nelson.htm


VICTIM/WITNESS ALISHA OWEN IMPRISONED



Alisha Owen testified at the grand jury in March of 1990 that when she was 14 years of age she had sex with then Omaha Chief of Police, Robert Wadman. Because of this testimony, she was charged with perjury. While on bail awaiting trial, she attended college and was editor of the school newspaper. She was also an honor student. On August 8, 1990, Alisha Owen entered a plea of innocent. On November 9, 1990, Alisha Owen's brother was found dead in a correction center cell, said to have committed suicide by hanging. Alisha Owen was convicted of first offense perjury in 1991 and was sentenced on August 8, 1991, to nine to 27 years in prison. During her prison term, she was in solitary confinement for a period longer than any female citizen in the history of the State of Nebraska. Alisha was let out on parole in mid-1997.



In September, 1997, television show "Inside Edition" reported that Johnny Gosch was still alive. Johnny Gosch is a highly publicized 1982 kidnap victim from West De Moines, Iowa, who has also been named as a victim in the Franklin child abuse matters, as described below. One week after this show was aired, Nebraska authorities picked up Alicia Owen, and without explanation, said she must serve out the remaining lengthy sentence in prison. In spite of this, Alisha refused to recant. Alisha is still incarcerated. Alisha's parents are raising Alisha's daughter, Amanda Jayne, who according to Alisha was sired by Omaha Chief of Police, Robert Wadman. Alisha was 15 years old when she had Amanda.



When the investigation turned the heat up on Wadman he was transferred to Aurora (Illinois). However his involvement in this story didn't end there:



GARY CARADORI , KEY INVESTIGATOR OF FRANKLIN, DIES IN PLANE CRASH



The evening of July 11, 1990, Gary Caradori, the investigator for the Nebraska State Legislature, Special Committee, called Senator Loran Schmit, Chairman of the Committee, from Chicago and told him he had the "smoking gun." Caradori told Senator Schmit he would fly that night from Chicago on his private plane with his son en route to Lincoln, Nebraska, with the evidence. The plane exploded in mid-air a short time later while flying over Aurora, Illinois killing Caradori and his 8-year-old son.



Officials claimed the plane disintegrated in mid-air. They denied an explosion took place. De Camp writes in his book, The Franklin Cover-Up:



"A farmer reported he saw a flash of light, heard an explosion, and saw the plane plunge to the ground. The eyewitness account of the flash of light and the explosion was on the early edition of television news in Nebraska, but was pulled from subsequent reports which said that the plane exploded on impact" (p. 2-3).



Bob Wadman, former Chief of Police of Omaha, and a perpetrator identified by the children was Chief of Police in Aurora at the time. Caradori's briefcase and the rear seat to the plane have never been found. Ted Gunderson suspects his briefcase contained the evidence mentioned the previous night to Senator Schmit, probably the incriminating materials, including photographs, provided by Rusty Nelson to Caradori (See Rusty Nelson statement below). The rear seat was not found, Gunderson suspects, to avoid evidence of a bomb.



The wreckage of the plane was examined on a military base rather than at a location under the control of civilian personnel. Under the Federal Delimitation Agreement, civilian personnel matters are handled by civilians and military matters are handled by the military. The crash was ruled an "accident" by government officials and not an act of sabotage.

Both Gunderson and Noreen Gosch, mother of missing-child Johnny Gosch, later learned that Caradori had in his possession evidence that her son was a victim of the Franklin Satanic cult/sex/drug ring. Paul Bonacci and Rusty Nelson have both provided detailed testimony attesting to this (see sections on Johnny Gosch below).



Gary Caradori repeatedly told friends in the weeks before his death that he feared his plane would be sabotaged. Both Gunderson and Noreen Gosch recently learned from undisclosed sources (whose lives and the lives of their loved ones could be placed in greater danger should their identities be revealed) that a deputy sheriff of a local Illinois sheriff's department was the first person on the scene of the plane explosion. The deputy sheriff said that there was child pornography all over the farm field. The man picked up a large number of photographs and other evidence. The FBI immediately arrived with three flat-bed trucks, grabbed the evidence from his hands, cordoned off the field, walked the field picking up every piece of evidence, put the plane and its parts on the flat-bed trucks, and told the peace officer, "This is confidential information and don't ever speak of it again." The evidence has never surfaced again in the Franklin investigation or any other investigation.



The deputy-sheriff did not remain silent. A few months later, as the deputy sheriff and his wife were driving ,the couple suffered a head-on collision in which the man's wife was killed and he was very seriously injured. It is the opinion of Ted Gunderson, who has 49 years experience in law enforcement and counter-intelligence activities, that this probably was a kill-by-car covert operation attempting to silence and intimidate yet another witness in the Franklin case, as probably occurred, according to sources, in the death of Kathleen Sorenson, the original complainant in the Franklin case.



Sorenson was driving on a two-lane road in October, 1989. Two elderly women in the car in front of Sorenson drove very slowly to slow her car down to a crawl. Another vehicle approached from the opposite direction at a high rate of speed. At the last moment, the elderly women pulled over to the right shoulder to allow the fast approaching car to run into her. The individuals in the fast-approaching car had prior arrest records for cruelty to animals, a common marker for Satanism.



I, Gunderson, suspect in evaluating the accident that it was a Satanic contract suicide. The other driver did not die, but could have. In Satanic law, a person who loses his/her life in such a contract murder/suicide will be reincarnated with more power granted by Satan. Not long after Sorenson's death, a teenager in a youth care facility told a worker, "You better watch out, or we will get you like we got that lady from Blair." Kathleen Sorenson was from Blaire, NE. The youth went on to describe a ceremony of drawing lots for the privilege.

[blueclouds]

FOR ALL THAT IT'S WORTH ATX....

I could post an article 10 x's as large SURROUNDING President CLINTON and all the STRANGE DEATHS and such that have surrounded HIM directly! CONSPIRACY!!! :rolleyes:

[miles_draken]

I don't care much about the whole conspiracy thing surrounding the supposed Franklin cover-up. I started this thread with one thing in mind, finding out what happened to Johnny Gosch. This whole Gannon thing that has come out in Washington now is very intriuging, but if he won't submit to DNA testing, which he has refused to do, then there isn't much further that part of the case will go. No matter how much he looks like Johnny's age progression, DNA is the only thing that would clear this all up. Does anyone know where Johnny's father is? It seems he isn't involved in the search like Noreen is. I don't know if this whole thing is high level government conspiracy or a bunch of nuts trying to make a buck, but I do know that a child was kidnapped in 1982. What happened to him?

[2sisters]

Is it possible that a serial killer was at work in the area? There are a few missing children in the area from that time frame. I feel that this is more likeley than the government child pornography ring. ATX did have some interesting things to say in his post and some are convincing but I personally don't buy it.

[VespaElf]

FOR ALL THAT IT'S WORTH ATX....

I could post an article 10 x's as large SURROUNDING President CLINTON and all the STRANGE DEATHS and such that have surrounded HIM directly! CONSPIRACY!!! :rolleyes:
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Thank you as always Carey!!!!

I too am NOT "buying it"!!!

[blueclouds]

Does anyone know where Johnny's father is? It seems he isn't involved in the search like Noreen is. I don't know if this whole thing is high level government conspiracy or a bunch of nuts trying to make a buck, but I do know that a child was kidnapped in 1982. What happened to him?
I too wonder a great deal WHERE is Johnny's Dad??? and yes.. what happened to Johnny. There are 2 other cases that I'm convinced that are linked to this. One the LE has recognized, the other isn't. Dunno why. Probably to calm fears of a serial killer I suppose.

BUT YES... anyone have info on the dad? He was always a strange part to this.

[atx]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Thank you as always Carey!!!!

I too am NOT "buying it"!!!Just because you are not "buying it" doesn't mean it isn't true. There are some very qualified investigators that are involved in the case, Ted Gunderson (former FBI Senior Special Agent in Dallas & LA) and Jim Rothstein (retired NYC detective that helped break the Son of Sam case). Obviously from their investigations in this case they have seen enough to know that they are not wasting their time chasing "conspiracy theories".

By the way Noreen Gosch has updated her website and it now features some more recent interviews she has done in addition to an 11 minute video clip of her appearance on MSNBC. Check it out at www.johnnygosch.com (http://www.johnnygosch.com)...

[VespaElf]

Just because you are not "buying it" doesn't mean it isn't true. There are some very qualified investigators that are involved in the case, Ted Gunderson (former FBI Senior Special Agent in Dallas & LA) and Jim Rothstein (retired NYC detective that helped break the Son of Sam case). Obviously from their investigations in this case they have seen enough to know that they are not wasting their time chasing "conspiracy theories".

By the way Noreen Gosch has updated her website and it now features some more recent interviews she has done in addition to an 11 minute video clip of her appearance on MSNBC. Check it out at www.johnnygosch.com (http://www.johnnygosch.com)...

Theres "evidence" that the moon landing didnt happen and it was a government hoax and there are some esteemed people who have attached themselves to that (conspiracy) theory so your point is?????????

[atx]

I don't care much about the whole conspiracy thing surrounding the supposed Franklin cover-up. I started this thread with one thing in mind, finding out what happened to Johnny Gosch. This whole Gannon thing that has come out in Washington now is very intriuging, but if he won't submit to DNA testing, which he has refused to do, then there isn't much further that part of the case will go. No matter how much he looks like Johnny's age progression, DNA is the only thing that would clear this all up. Does anyone know where Johnny's father is? It seems he isn't involved in the search like Noreen is. I don't know if this whole thing is high level government conspiracy or a bunch of nuts trying to make a buck, but I do know that a child was kidnapped in 1982. What happened to him?
The Franklin case very much is tied into the Gosch case. Before Gary Caradori attempted to fly back from Chicago he phoned his wife and told her he had the "smoking gun" for the Franklin case and that he also found out what happened to Johnny Gosch. However as stated in a previous post he never made it back to Nebraska because his plane went down.

There are a few other notes of interest that have taken place recently since the whole "Jeff Gannon" scandal broke the headlines.

First of all Hunter S Thompson supposedly committed suicide, you may wonder what in the world he has to do with anything. Well Paul Bonacci testified that on one of his "sexual adventures" that he took with Larry King he was flown to Vegas where they picked up Mr. Thompson before flying out to a resort in the redwoods of California where he and other boys were sexually molested. He claims that Mr. Thompson was in charge of making the "snuff film" of what took place. Now it would be easy to dismiss this as a fairy tale but we now know that what Bonacci was describing is in fact Bohemian Grove (DeCamp didn't even know at the time what Bohemian Grove was). Unless Bonacci had actually been to Bohemian Grove how in the world would he have been able to accurately describe it? Also if Mr. Thompson was involved and he knew that Gannon was in fact Gosch then surely he knew that his involvement may come out, so either he committed suicide or someone killed him (a whole other topic.) It is also a strange coincidence a recent article posted on Gannon's site was titles "Fear and Loathing in the Press Room", which could be a reference to Thompson's film "Fear and Loathing in Las vegas".

Anyways if you have never heard of Bohemian Grove then you need to check out the following link (which features prominent politicians at the club):

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/grove.asp

Second, the man that Caradori met in Chicago was Rusty Nelson. Rusty was hired by Larry King to be his personal photographer. Rusty supposedly had some compromising pictures of these powerful and prominent men that were used to blackmail them. Rusty is still alive (surprisingly) however again right after the Gannon in the Whitehouse story broke he was arrested once again. There is an article that explains Mr. Nelson's side of the story at this link:
http://tomflocco.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=108&mode=&order=0&thold=0

Also two stories recently appeared in Des Moines area papers, the first was in the Des Moines Register:
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050405/LIFE04/504050376/1044

The second was in a more independent paper:
http://www.pointblank-dm.com/cover.shtml

In an interesting note not only was the author of the second article fired but the paper closed it's doors and changed it's name after the article was published (I confirmed this myself by calling their office):
http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2350

[atx]

Theres "evidence" that the moon landing didnt happen and it was a government hoax and there are some esteemed people who have attached themselves to that (conspiracy) theory so your point is?????????
Nice move to try and discredit this info by immediately associating it with another "conspiracy" such as the moon landing hoax. Let's try to stay on topic. You don't seem to want to make a comment that relates to the info or try and refute it with other information, all you do is sit back and make remarks blasting the info that is posted. How about you contribute something relevant to this discussion?

And to answer your question my point is you are not the final say-so on what is fact and what is fiction so if you are not "buying it" then it really doesn't matter either way :hand:

[miles_draken]

How crazy this whole thing does sound. The Conspiracy theories that are flying around and those of you who discredit it as "impossible". Well not too long ago this very medium we are using, the internet, seemed "impossible". 9/11 didn't seem possible to many of us before it actually happened. The impossible things in this world are only impossible until someone does them. Something is happening to all these missing kids. I'm not saying Franklin Credit Union scandal is all they say it is, but why dispute it just because it sounds crazy. How many people laughed at the Wright Brothers the morning they flew for the first time? I feel we should just bounce theories off one another and investigate, not say that something is false just because it's hard to believe. Something happened to Johnny Gosch, it's just a question of what.

[VespaElf]

Nice move to try and discredit this info by immediately associating it with another "conspiracy" such as the moon landing hoax. Let's try to stay on topic. You don't seem to want to make a comment that relates to the info or try and refute it with other information, all you do is sit back and make remarks blasting the info that is posted. How about you contribute something relevant to this discussion?

And to answer your question my point is you are not the final say-so on what is fact and what is fiction so if you are not "buying it" then it really doesn't matter either way :hand:

IMO YOUR conspiracy holds as much water as the moonlanding hoax conspriacy HENCE why it was brought up.Ive made numerous comments regarding YOUR theory and the "information" you have posted-what is it you want from me exactly??
THIS IS A MESSAGE BOARD! ALL ANYONE DOES IS SIT BACK AND MAKE REMARKS(DUH!)AND FYI according to many posters I have contributed MANY relevant things thank you very much.Just because YOU dont like them doesnt mean they dont matter! YOU do NOT run this forum(thank God) and its NOT up to YOU who can post OR what they can say THANK YOU VERY MUCH !!!

AND until proven otherwise I belive you are associated with certain person(s) who are involved in this hoax (if not your being the actual main person behind it) SO Mr.ATX/Johnny/BoyExploited I can and will say whatever I want about your theories OR anything else I darn well please on this or any other forum(unless I violate the TOS and bt expressing MY opinion is NOT in violation so youre SOL buddy!!)

Im not the only one who 1) Doesnt belive a word you say and 2) Thinks you have more than a vested interest in this hoax but you continue posting AND i will too!!


HAVE A GREAT DAY!!!!!! :)

[atx]

For those of you who may be a bit flabbergasted by all of this, I feel the need to reiterate that certain elements of what I have been posting are not “conspiracy theory” but they are fact.



The first point is that human “sex slave” trafficking is in fact real, and that many of these “sex slaves” are in fact children. On top of that it has been uncovered across the globe that government officials and agencies have been involved in this. Here is a link:



http://www.prisonplanet.com/archive_elite_sex_ring.html (http://www.prisonplanet.com/archive_elite_sex_ring.html)



The second point is that there is evidence that our own government has been involved in this. On Thursday June 9, 1989 the Washington Times headline read “Homosexual prostitution inquiry ensnares VIPs with Reagan, Bush” (for a scan of this headline visit http://thelawparty.com/FranklinCoverup/WTpage1.gif (http://thelawparty.com/FranklinCoverup/WTpage1.gif)). In short Craig Spence, a Washington lobbyist, was giving “midnight tours” of the White House to “call boys”. What ensued is very interesting, you can view further reports about this at the following link:



http://www.voxfux.com/features/bush_child_sex_coverup/article_archive.htm (http://www.voxfux.com/features/bush_child_sex_coverup/article_archive.htm)



For those of you who try and discredit Bonacci I must tell you that he gave a detailed description of the living quarters in the White House, which is an area that not even the press are allowed to go! And as you probably guessed Craig Spence’s life came to an end when he committed “suicide”.



Here is another examples of a government official being involved in related activity:



Homosexual Escort services operate out of Barney Frank’s apartment:

http://www.thelawparty.org/FranklinCoverup/webpages2/BarneyFrank.htm (http://www.thelawparty.org/FranklinCoverup/webpages2/BarneyFrank.htm)



The third point I would like to make is about Bohemian Grove. As I said before Bonacci described being taken to this location and being sexually assaulted here, you can view an excerpt of his account at this link…although I must warn you it is graphic:



http://thelawparty.com/FranklinCoverup/FranklinBookGrove.htm (http://thelawparty.com/FranklinCoverup/FranklinBookGrove.htm)



The Bohemian Grove is an extremely exclusive resort where politicians and other powerbrokers meet. The following website contains information as well as pictures of the powerful figures attending the meetings:



http://www.apfn.org/apfn/grove.asp (http://www.apfn.org/apfn/grove.asp)



You may notice that there is a giant sculpture of an owl which is the pagan idol “Moloch” in the Bible. You may also notice the “Cremation of Care” ceremony which involves the members of the Grove dressing in robes and participating in a mock sacrifice. Seems kinda creepy? Hear what President Nixon had to say about the grove:



http://www.prisonplanet.com/032604nixontape.html (http://www.prisonplanet.com/032604nixontape.html)



Again how could an orphan from Nebraska know so much about Bohemian Grove?

[atx]

There is one more person that is involved in the Franklin & Gosch cases that I have not seen mentioned yet. His name is Michael Aquino. He was a very high ranking military officer who held top Pentagon clearances. While in the military he was involved in several projects that involved mind control and psy-ops. He was also a suspect in several different pedophile cases and eventually went on to form the Temple of Set, a satanic organization. Here is an informative article about Mr. Aquino:

http://educate-yourself.org/tg/satanicsubversionusmilitary29mar04.shtml

And a brief excerpt:



During the February 5 hearing, Noreen Gosch stunned the court with sworn testimony linking U.S. Army Lt. Col. Michael Aquino (ret.) to the nationwide pedophile ring. Her son, Johnny, then 12 years old, was kidnapped off the streets of West Des Moines, Iowa on September 5, 1982, while he was doing his early-morning newspaper deliveries. Since his kidnapping, she has devoted all of her time and resources to finding her son, and to exposing the dangers that millions of children in American face from this hideous, literally Satanic underground of ritualistic deviants.


"We have investigated, we have talked to so far 35 victims of this said organization that took my son and is responsible for what happened to Paul, and they can verify everything that has happened," she told the court.

"What this story involves is an elaborate function, I will say, that was an offshoot of a government program. The MK-Ultra program was developed in the 1950s by the CIA. It was used to help spy on other countries during the Cold War because they felt that the other countries were spying on us.


"It was very successful. They could do it very well."


Then, the Aquino bombshell: "Well, then there was a man by the name of Michael Aquino. He was in the military. He had top Pentagon clearances. He was a pedophile. He was a Satanist. He's founded the Temple of Set. And he was a close friend of Anton LaVey. The two of them were very active in ritualistic sexual abuse. And they deferred funding from this government program to use [in] this experimentation on children.


"Where they deliberately split off the personalities of these children into multiples, so that when they're questioned or put under oath or questioned under lie detector, that unless the operator knows how to question a multiple-personality disorder, they turn up with no evidence."


She continued: "They used these kids to sexually compromise politicians or anyone else they wish to have control of. This sounds so far out and so bizarre I had trouble accepting it in the beginning myself until I was presented with the data. We have the proof. In black and white."


Under questioning from DeCamp, Gosch reported: "I know that Michael Aquino has been in Iowa. I know that Michael Aquino has been to Offutt Air Force Base [a Strategic Air Command base, near Omaha, which was linked to King's activities]. I know that he has had contact with many of these children."


Paul Bonacci, who was simultaneously a victim and a member of the nationwide pedophile crime syndicate, has subsequently identified Aquino as the man who ordered the kidnapping of Johnny Gosch. In his February 5 testimony, Bonacci referred to the mastermind of the Gosch abduction as "the Colonel."


A second witness who testified at the February 5 hearing, Rusty Nelson, was King's personal photographer. He later described to EIR another incident which linked King to Aquino, while the Army special forces officer was still on active reserve duty. Some time in the late 1980s, Nelson was with King at a posh hotel in downtown Minneapolis, when he personally saw King turn over a suitcase full of cash and bearer-bonds to "the Colonel," who he later positively identified as Aquino. According to Nelson, King told him that the suitcase of cash and bonds was earmarked for the Nicaraguan Contras, and that "the Colonel" was part of the covert Contra support apparatus, otherwise associated with Lt. Col. Oliver North, Vice President George Bush, and the "secret parallel government" that they ran from the White House.



There are many more links with info about Mr. Aquino online, do some research!

[mysteriew]

I am not a big believer of conspiracy theories myself, but I believe history can teach us a lot of what to believe may be possible. So for the non-believers of a conspiracy theory- I refer you to the rumors and theories of the "Disappeared of the Yonne" of in France and the history of that case and of the case of Dutroux in Belgium, who still insists that he was only a part of a larger conspiracy which involved judges, politicians, and LE. Investigations are still ongoing in Belgium and France. But they are 3 similiar stories in 3 different countries. At least check them out before dismissing the conspiracy theory outright.

[blueclouds]

MESSIECAKE... AS IT SAYS UNDER MY NAME.... "I'VE FOUND MY TINFOIL HAT". Do you want to borrow it? Or I can make you one exactly like mine! :D

[atx]

AND until proven otherwise I belive you are associated with certain person(s) who are involved in this hoax (if not your being the actual main person behind it) SO Mr.ATX/Johnny/BoyExploited I can and will say whatever I want about your theories OR anything else I darn well please on this or any other forum(unless I violate the TOS and bt expressing MY opinion is NOT in violation so youre SOL buddy!!)

Im not the only one who 1) Doesnt belive a word you say and 2) Thinks you have more than a vested interest in this hoax but you continue posting AND i will too!!


HAVE A GREAT DAY!!!!!! :)
Could you please answer the following:
-What I need to do to disprove the accusation that I am Johnny/BoyExploited?
-How I "have more than a vested interest in this hoax"?

The irony is that your statements are false and better fit the bill of a "conspiracy theory" than anything I have posted :laugh:

[blueclouds]

Messiecake: Email Or Pm Me And I'll Show You How To Block Certain Posts So You Don't Even Have To Read Anything. It'll Look Like It "disappears". ;)

Hugs.

Ps: Atx: Thought You Didn't Believe In Slamming. I Kindly Suggest You Head To The 100's Of Other Forums Out There That Will Embrace Your "theories". No Matter How Many Times People Tell You They Don't Buy It, You Still Want To Ram It Down Our Throats. I'm Not Telling You To Go Away, I'm Suggesting You Go Where Many People Like You Believe In The Same Things.

[atx]

First of all, this is a message board and what you call "ramming it down our throats" I simply call PARTICIPATING! I feel that I have brought a lot of new information and links to this thread in a short amount of time. Just because you, messie, and others may not "buy" into the information others have shown interest in what I have posted. Besides doesn't a good investigator look into all possible leads (especially on a case that has been cold for two decades)?

And my question to messie about what it will take to disprove the accusation that I am Johnny/BoyExploited is open to you as well, it's time to put that to rest...

[blueclouds]

TO ADD TO THIS ATX: I HAVE SPOKEN DIRECTLY TO LE. THEY'VE told me that their LAST CONTACT FROM STEVE AKA BOYEXPL. WASN'T FROM CALIFORNIA LIKE THE TIME PRIOR.... HE LEFT A PHONE NUMBER FROM TEXAS. OK?

AND IRREGARDLESS OF WHO YOU ARE.... YOU come out posting what's already plastered on the internet. Just because someone wrote it doesn't make it true. IT is a huge conspiracy. That's my two cents and now if you pardon me, I'm permanently taking myself off THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC. I'M DONE WITH THIS.

[Magnum PI]

TO ADD TO THIS ATX: I HAVE SPOKEN DIRECTLY TO LE. THEY'VE told me that their LAST CONTACT FROM STEVE AKA BOYEXPL. WASN'T FROM CALIFORNIA LIKE THE TIME PRIOR.... HE LEFT A PHONE NUMBER FROM TEXAS. OK?

AND IRREGARDLESS OF WHO YOU ARE.... YOU come out posting what's already plastered on the internet. Just because someone wrote it doesn't make it true. IT is a huge conspiracy. That's my two cents and now if you pardon me, I'm permanently taking myself off THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC. I'M DONE WITH THIS. Blueclouds..Please..there is no such word as "irregardless"..the word you are seeking is "regardless"..I'm generally not so critical, but many people read these forums, and this kind of language only attracts that 'ol turkey callin', beer guzzling, wrestling match kind of crowd. Let's raise the bar a bit and show atx some respect. In the words of Rodney King, "can't we just get along." Have a great life!:bang:

[atx]

Well hopefully Messie sticks around long enough to answer my questions...I am particularly interested to know what she thinks my "ulterior motives" are for contributing to this thread.

[Magnum PI]

I did check your link, and found that the word is sometimes used HUMOROUSLY, which couldn't have been what you were doing, bein' from Texas and goin' to Princeton and all that stuff. I'm from Texas,and we Texans know funny, just look at the political leaders we produce.......
Irreguardless of your vast education in the redneck ways of the world, your line didn't seem all that funny. Try this one.."Why do rednecks attend family reunions so often?" answer..looking for dates.

[blueclouds]

magnum Pi............ Check Your Private Messages (top Of The Board To The Right, Udder Your Name :p)

[atx]

Here are two more cases I found where members of government and law enforcement where found to be involved in child pornography:

http://www.family.org/cforum/fosi/pornography/facts/a0026237.cfm


Operation Candyman

Date: On March 18, 2002, FBI Executive Assistant Director Bruce Gebhardt and Attorney General John Ashcroft announced the first phase of Operation Candyman.1

Subject: The investigation centered on a Yahoo! Egroup that invited people to trade pictures of child pornography. The FBI estimates that there were more than 7,000 subscribers to the group, with around 2,400 living abroad. Those subscribing to the Candyman group were targeted in this investigation, but other Egroups were under scrutiny at the time Candyman was announced.2

Background: Operation Candyman began in January 2001 when an undercover FBI agent joined the site. He had instant access to about 100 images and video clips, most of which showed prepubescent children engaged in sexual acts with themselves and adults. Within a month, the agent received 500 e-mail messages, some of which included child pornography.3 By the time Candyman was made public, all 56 FBI field offices were involved with the investigation.4

Results: More than 100 Americans have been arrested.5 The group administrator, Mark Bates, was sentenced to 30 years in prison.6 Those arrested included day care workers, clergy members, law enforcement personnel,7 a U.S. Army Sergeant,8 and others in positions of trust or authority. German authorities are investigating 1,400 people in connection with Candyman and British police have identified more than 2,000 people suspected of acquiring illegal material from the sites in question.9




Operation Ore

Date: Details of Britain’s Operation Ore first began to appear in September 2002 when two police officers who had worked on a high-profile child abduction case were arrested for child pornography offenses.1

Subject: The investigation centers on the more than 7,200 Britons who allegedly subscribed to child pornography through Landslide Productions, a Fort Worth, Texas-based company.2

Background: Operation Ore can trace its roots to the start of the United States’ investigation, Operation Avalanche, in April 1999. When American law enforcement officers analyzed Landslide’s business records, they discovered hundreds of thousands of subscriber from all over the world. After the Reedys were convicted, U.S. investigators released the names of international subscribers to Interpol. Britain received its list of suspects in September 20013 and began dividing them between 43 regional forces.4 Police targeted those in positions of authority or proximity to children first.5

Results: To date, British police have arrested 1,500 people, including more than 50 police officers,6 judges, two Members of Parliament, doctors, and legendary rock star Pete Townshend of The Who.7 News reports also indicate that the FBI is ready to turn over another 8,000 leads as a result of a separate child pornography investigation.8 Police have determined that nearly one in five of those arrested was also sexually abusing children.9

[cppweb]

The Jeff Gannon conspiracy is just that. He 100% not Johnny Gosch.

All the new propoganda is geared toward selling Decamp's and Noreen's books. That is all it is.

Fact: A mother knows her son no matter how long they have been seperated. So dont you think Noreen would at least have the mothers instinct toward Gannon?

I know these things because I was involved in all the hoopla in the late 80's and early 90's

I am the "Jimmy" dude that America's Most Wanted found.

I was not kidnapped when I was a kid but I ran away from home and went to Omaha and then got involved (forced) into this crap.

So when I say trust me that the person they think is Johnny is not.

This whole thing I believe is financially motivated (Now Days)

As far as Leonard Gosch's involvement, I am firmly convinced that he had a part of it.

Mr. Gosch, still lives in Iowa, if you go to the State of Iowa, division of courts, do an online record search you can see he has not diappeared.

I can back up everythign I say as I am really the only creditable person that knows what really happened.

By the way, Paul Bonacci was not involved in the abduction of Johnny. This is one of those Decamp flaunts.

It goes really deep, but not to the white house or satanic crap or anything like that. That is all conspiracy fantasies.

Sorry for the spelling, but I do the best I can.

I will take questions on this forum.

til then, have a good one.

Also, Decamp states Troy Boner has died. Another false fact. I just see him a few days ago, also there is no SSI Death index reporting on him,.

[miles_draken]

If you know it all then please spell it out exactly what happened to JOhnny. Is he alive? Did he go see his mother? Tell us everything that you know, please. If you are indeed in the know about all of this a spilling of the guts would help to dispell all the conspiracy theories.

[emma l]

cppweb........... First of all don't worry about the spelling!! ..............Are you really who you say you are? How do we know you are? Do you know where Johnny is?(You obviously dont have to tell us where it is..) Does his mother know where Johnny is? Is he alive? Did he run away like you?(its as likely a theory as any). Is there any way we can help find what happened to Johnny? I have a million questions..............

[mysteriew]

cppweb, you say that you were involved in the "hoopla". Is there anything we can do to help you? You sound like you really want to talk. We are a bunch that wants to listen. You can tell as much or as little about who you are now as you wish, obviously. But please tell us as much as you can as to who you were, the details as to what happened in the past, and how we can verify it. We do want to know. Only by talking can the truth come out.

[keithjfro]

Some holes in "Jimmy's" claim....

On page 3 he said.....

"Is Johnny alive? That is hard to say, in my mind probably not and was probably killed a day or two after the kidnapping. One thing is for sure he is still on this planet. Nothing leaves the earth."

Now the Jimmy who AMW showed and hid his face when he showed the branded X on himself said Johnny was very much alive.

So if you are Jimmy, how can you say he was killed a day or two after?

[cppweb]

Ok that was the first post I posted, I wanted to see the mind state here and to see if anyone was smart enough to catch that, dont mean no dis respect, but from what I have heard the last few months, there must be a bunch of gullible and stupid people floatin around.

OK a Mistake, but what I can tell you is that now this thing with Gannon is really messed up.

Now Noreen, (4acloserlook.com) April 26th, first hour; says that the dude on MSNTV (Bo Dietl) who did the interview with Jeff Gannon is now part of the conspiracy. Come on this lady is nutso in the head. Bo Dietl is now part of the same group that kidnapped her son.......I don't think so. It just goes to show that if it dont go her way, she gets even and that's how she does it.

Noreen and Decamp and Gunderson would be absolute shoe in's for the next Green Acres tv show. Or wait! the X-Files....no the G Files.

There is an agenda here, a hidden one and one that is on the surface.

1. Political. John Decamp did and will try again to run for Govenor of Nebraska. John Decamp is directly related to a right wing christian fundelmentalist group, the nebraska leadership confrence. Well with having someone in office that is part of your group it gives you power, power to change things the way they want. I believe this goes farther. I also believe they use the same tactics against their prey as they have described in their supportive members books. (The real story)

2. Financial. They all have written books. You write books and have them published to make money. Noreen got sued by the actual author of her book for non payment and also might I point out some copyright battle they are bickering about in court. So this shows a financial motive to make publicity.

What I am saying what they are doing these days are wrong, and have totally lost their focus along the way. They are droans now.

If Ted Ginderson told Noreen he himself has seen little green men (Aliens) take their son, she would believe him. That's what has been happening since about 1989. Gunderson is bad, Decamp is bad, they have controlled this womans life and made her what she is tody along with many others.

It's truely sad, because in a way they are just re-abusing the true victims every time they come up with these crazy stories. I would bet good money that Guckert takes Noreen and all her co horts to court and sues the hell out of them for invading his personal life.

By the way, the AMW thing was all scripted. Paul Sparrow himself wrote the **** to say.

C-ya ---Last Post. Gonna catch out now.

[miles_draken]

Kinda sad that your post about knowing what happened to Johnny was completely bogus. I could care less about your political views about Franklin Cover-UP, or John Decamp, or whatever. Let's not forget once again that there is a missing person who hasn't been accounted for. The conspiracy theories are all interesting twists and put the story into mro people's minds, but lets' find this kid dead or alive and put this whole thing to rest. I'm sick and tired of people using tragedies like this for their own purposes.

The above poster says he's not posting anymore, and is obviously just another glory hound seeking to attach themselves to something. Why can't someone just find out what happened to this child.

[miles_draken]

Sorry for my typos in the above post, I'm very frustrated with posting like the one cppweb has listed. There is a missing child still unaccounted for. Someone has to care, right?

[2sisters]

Can someone chack into cppweb? I just don't have a good feeling about him after reading his posts. I'm thinking boyexploited.

Sadly Johnny is probably dead and nobody will know what really happened b/c his mother and all of these others involved have tainted this case. Their quest for fame, fortune or whatever it is they wanted to accomplish with this government child pornography ring hoax has taken away from the issue at hand.

[miles_draken]

I'm not ready to call this pornography ring a hoax just yet. I don't know how anyone can dismiss it as hoax when there is really no evidence to support it or disprove it in my opinion. It just seems funny to me that everyone is so quick to throw out all posibilities just because this boys grieving mother has bought into this theory. IT should all be about finding Johnny, not discrediting his grieving family.

[Jeana (DP)]

Y'all, please stop the bickering. I haven't edited or deleted any posts, but I will be watching this thread carefully. Thanks.

[atx]

I find it a bit funny that I was labeled as a "tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist" even though I made no claims to have "inside knowledge" or firsthand information about this case. All I did was post information (much of it from what is considered "mainstream" media sources) that related to the theory that a large pedophilia ring was involved in Johnny's disappearance.

However until now no one has really questioned the information that has been presented by cppweb, even though he is making some radical claims and has not posted any links or sources to back them up. Not to mention the fact that his story has changed and he has admitted to being deceitful in previous posts. Not trying to run you off cppweb (or accuse you of being an imposter), please do continue to post but I think that it would help your case if you were able to back up some of your claims by providing some links and credible sources. Let's see where this goes...

BTW would someone be so kind as to fill me in on the whole "boyexploited" history? PM me if you prefer...

[Jeana (DP)]

I find it a bit funny that I was labeled as a "tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorist" even though I made no claims to have "inside knowledge" or firsthand information about this case. All I did was post information (much of it from what is considered "mainstream" media sources) that related to the theory that a large pedophilia ring was involved in Johnny's disappearance.

However until now no one has really questioned the information that has been presented by cppweb, even though he is making some radical claims and has not posted any links or sources to back them up. Not to mention the fact that his story has changed and he has admitted to being deceitful in previous posts. Not trying to run you off cppweb (or accuse you of being an imposter), please do continue to post but I think that it would help your case if you were able to back up some of your claims by providing some links and credible sources. Let's see where this goes...

BTW would someone be so kind as to fill me in on the whole "boyexploited" history? PM me if you prefer...


If someone does decide to fill ATX in, please do so privately. Let's stay on topic here and discuss this case - NOT the posters. Thanks.

[kimberdawn]

Praying for Johnny & his family. Please lets all remember the child that is missing and not this other bull.

[2sisters]

You are right Kimberdawn. I am sorry if my post was offensive. I hope this story will come to an end soon. I just feel the investigation has been clouded by other stuff.

[emma l]

I agree. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Mike_Gatton]

Noreen did get sued + more interesting links
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/ap.../408110350/1002 (http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20040811/NEWS01/408110350/1002)

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/...gi?ArtNum=89930 (http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=89930)

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...osch+scam&hl=en (http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:dHfG2P0pA00J:cannonfire.blogspot.co m/2005/03/guckertgannon-is-not-johnny-gosch.html+noreen+gosch+scam&hl=en)

4acloserlook.com/dates.html

[VespaElf]

From the LIberty Post Link...........

"My own sister, Irene Adrian, was a victim of CIA-sponsored child sexual abuse. In early adulthood, while under mind control by CIA, she was sexually abused by a number of politicians, including Nelson Rockefeller. She was held hostage in a hotel room by Dick Cheney during the 1970s, while living in Omaha, Nebraska. During that time, she was acquainted with several of the principals in the "Franklin Coverup". She is still involved in a number of lawsuits, the opposition being CIA operatives connected to this criminal network, whom I publicly exposed after an investigation which I began in 1995 and which continues to this day................."
I challege anyone who reads the above to honestly think for one second that any of these people are telling the truth!! THIS WHOLE THING IS A HOAX!!!

No different than the books and websites that proclaim the Holocaust and the Moon Landing never happened.Those people all claim government conspriacies too.
Noreen lost her son and has been manipulated by hoaxers with an agendas to the point of no return.

If you belive the CIA is kidnapping anmd using mind control and rape I have bridge for sale........
SERIOUSLY this is kooky chit .

Im done.Unfortunately for Johnny it seems nobody is looking for him,They're just looking to further their hoax.

Im on to other threads.I pray for Johnny but Im done posting about him or this "cover-up" etc etc

[Mike_Gatton]

From what I can see, after doing a massive internet search on all the subjects and actually thinking out of the box, I have no answers. Man it's like trying to sort out 20 miles if fishing line from bucket. It just aint going to happen.

Sounds like to me, it could of been a kidnapping, maybe from a serial pedophile/killer passing through town or a localized incident, but I don’t think for one minute that all of this is conspiracy after conspiracy after conspiracy.

More than likely there is a simple truth.

Yes indeed it is a shame that many people have been out going with false info and rumoristic stories. It is a tragedy that a mother and father have been shafted by folks that only want their name(s) in lights.

Johnny is still here, alive or passed on, that's what we all got to remember. If he is alive, he probably doesn’t want to be bothered. If he is deceased, let him rest in peace.

[miles_draken]

I would like to know where Johnny's father is. There are rumours he may have been involved to some degree in his sons disappearance. I study this case off and on and never find any info about his whereabouts or his interest in the case. I also never here anything about Johnny's siblings, who would be adults now. Where is the rest of the family in all this. Noreen is the only one we hear about leading the charge and making these claims. I don't know what the truth is, but I don't dismiss anything just because it sounds incredible. Shocking things happen in this world that are incredible only until the moment they occur. If anyone has info about the rest of his family I'd be interested to hear it.

[emma l]

Its impossible to tell whether thats Johnny or not isnt it?

I have tried all day to get some new information on Eugene or Marc and I couldnt find anything. All information on the net relates to Noreen Goschs theories. Its sooooooooooo frustrating. Why is there no information on thses children??

[miles_draken]

Nothing new lately in Johnny's case. No word on the Jeff Gannon info lately. Here's hoping something happens to get this case in the news again. Where is 48 hours???? We need them and other news magazine shows for these types of cases.

[atx]

Noreen Gosch appeared on "A Closer Look" radio program last night with the latest on the case. Click on the link and scroll down to the July 18th program:

http://www.4acloserlook.com/july2005.html


2nd and 3rd Hour:: Michael interviews Noreen Gosch, author of Why Johnny Can't Come Home. Noreen joins Michael to discuss a curious turn of events concerning a man who volunteered to help Noreen write her book, and now is suing her for all inventory, and all future rights to her story. This move effectively would shut down her foundation, and silence her forever. This interview focuses on the chain of events that have occurred around Noreen, and why someone might be trying to stop her from getting the message out. One allegation that has surfaced in this matter is that news reporter Jeff Gannon is Noreen Gosch's kidnapped son, Johnny. This rumor has persisted. Noreen stated on the program that she is interested in obtaining a DNA sample from Jeff Gannon, but it has not happened. During this program, Jeff Gannon, alleged to be Noreen's son, Johnny, calls in to state that he will take a DNA test to prove that he is not Johnny Gosch.

[mysteriew]

This is probably not related, but I thought I would throw it in for discussion purposes.

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/tools/story_pf.asp?ID=82828

[inquiringmindz]

OMG, I just about fainted when I watched the news. They could have a small break in the Johnny Gosch case. Johnny's mom received pictures in the mail of what appears to be her son bound and gagged. IMHO, it does look like him. The news stated he was wearing sweat pants when taken and he does have these on in the pic.

She also received another pic of two other boys tied up in the same fashion and is asking for help in trying to identify the other boys in the photo.

See http://www.johnnygosch.com/ for photos and details.

It really makes me wonder about the pedophile ring...

[miles_draken]

I have heard Noreen talk about a brand before, and she indicates it in the picture, however I am unable to see it clearly enough. I wish they could be blown up for a closer look. This case may be becoming hot again after a long hiatus of hearing anything about it. Let's hope this one can be solved. I have follwed it ever since it happened when I was young. It was because of Johnn's case that I didn't get in a car with a stranger one time when being lured for directions from an "innocent" looking man. Scares me still to this day thinking about what could have happened.

Here's hoping for resolution. Whether he's alive anymore or not, this family needs closure.

[Paladin]

OH MY LORD...


DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) -- The mother of a boy abducted 24 years ago said she's bewildered by two photographs left at her front door, apparently showing her son and two other children bound and gagged.

The old photos appear to show 12-year-old Johnny Gosch with his mouth gagged and his hands and feet tied. The boy is wearing the same sweatpants Johnny was wearing when he disappeared while delivering newspapers on the morning of September 5, 1982, his mother said.

More at:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/01/missing.boy.photos.ap/index.html

[Jeana (DP)]

Oh no. I cannot even imagine this.

[Paladin]

Someone wants to hurt this woman very badly emotionally.

[inquiringmindz]

I have heard Noreen talk about a brand before, and she indicates it in the picture, however I am unable to see it clearly enough.
Miles,
I also wondered about the brand. What is it from? Was it something he had before he was abducted? Something his captures could have given him?

You are right, this family does need closure. I can't imagine what this family has been through.

[southcitymom]

This is heart-wrenching. Whoever left those photographs is a sadist of the highest order. After 24 years...unbelievable.

[LinetteH]

Tha site must be super over loaded right now! I cannot get to it!

[michelle]

This is horrible!!!

[michelle]

OMG, I just about fainted when I watched the news. They could have a small break in the Johnny Gosch case. Johnny's mom received pictures in the mail of what appears to be her son bound and gagged. IMHO, it does look like him. The news stated he was wearing sweat pants when taken and he does have these on in the pic.

She also received another pic of two other boys tied up in the same fashion and is asking for help in trying to identify the other boys in the photo.

See http://www.johnnygosch.com/ for photos and details.

It really makes me wonder about the pedophile ring...This is terrible, I just tried to order the book online and its like 40$ used!

[NanaMcZoo]

I agree...someone wants to hurt this woman...can LE go back and revisit people that knew this family,and check and recheck for an agenda???

[SewingDeb]

How horrible for his mother! And the parents of the other two boys, if they can be found. I hope they can get some fingerprints at least.

[inquiringmindz]

As horrible as this is, I sure hope it leads to the person or persons responsible for his disappearance.

[inquiringmindz]

This is terrible, I just tried to order the book online and its like 40$ used!I'll be purchasing the one for $189.50 :crazy: LOL

They are for sale on her website. When traffic slows down, I'd check there. I don't think it was more than $19.95.

You may want to check with the library too. Mine (in IA) has it! I'll be checking that out tonight.

You could also try requesting it on WS bay or on the WS book club.

[bykerladi]

The sadest thing is that this woman was already emotionally unstable. Whomever left those photos is truely EVIL for wanting to cause her even more distress.

[michelle]

I'll be purchasing the one for $189.50 :crazy: LOL

They are for sale on her website. When traffic slows down, I'd check there. I don't think it was more than $19.95.

You may want to check with the library too. Mine (in IA) has it! I'll be checking that out tonight.

You could also try requesting it on WS bay or on the WS book club.I forgot about ebay :doh: .

[inquiringmindz]

I forgot about ebay :doh: .
Websleuths Bay (WS Bay) in the "A Little of This A Little of That" section!
But eBay is always good too!

[southcitymom]

How horrible for his mother! And the parents of the other two boys, if they can be found. I hope they can get some fingerprints at least.
Exactly. The best thing that could come from this heinous act would be the capture of this animal.

[Old Broad]

This poor woman, I hope somehow LE can use this to catch whoever is responsible!!

OB

[englishleigh]

I wonder who the two other children were??

Horrible...prayers that this will help lead police to the source.

[Amraann]

whoever did this did much worse then leave a photo.


Obvioulsy he wants attention. Lets hope he keeps wanting it because that will lead to his capture.

[ipswitch]

This link : http://www.wral.com/news/9778102/detail.htmllooks like the same article, but also has the picture on it if anyone is interested.

ipswitch

[Amraann]

I can't look...


But If I were that mom I would be camping at the front door with a 22.

[KT Can]

omg.. this is gut wrenching!!! i have an 11 year old son, i can't look at this picture without imagining him. who are the other boys???

could the boy in the middle possibly be http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/68dmaz.html ??? the fact that he went missing while colelcting money for hispaper route caught my attention.

[Jeana (DP)]

I can't look.

[Marie]

This photo looks like one that has been in circulation for quite a while now (but without the boy in the middle). It might have been photoshopped or something like that. The real photo (with girl on right & boy on left) was dropped outside a motel, in Florida I believe. The kids weren't positively identified as far as I know.

[PlasmaFiend024]

That case is one big mystery.i think the pic is a fake.but check out this intresting link on the case.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14561809/
also look into the franklin coverup .that has somthing to do with this case.

[PlasmaFiend024]

sorry the link above is bad.here the right one
http://educate-yourself.org/tg/goschcradiointerview19aug03.shtml

[Marie]

That case is one big mystery.i think the pic is a fake.but check out this intresting link on the case.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14561809/
also look into the franklin coverup .that has somthing to do with this case.

Thanks for fixing the link! :)

[KT Can]

This photo looks like one that has been in circulation for quite a while now (but without the boy in the middle). It might have been photoshopped or something like that. The real photo (with girl on right & boy on left) was dropped outside a motel, in Florida I believe. The kids weren't positively identified as far as I know.
Marie - I think I know which photo you are referring to. It was found in 1989 and some people think that the girl in the photo is Tara Leigh Calico. Part of the photo can be seen here: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/calico_tara.html. Their mouths are taped in this photo as opposed to being gagged in the new/old Johnny Gosch photo. I don't know whether this new/old photo is fake or not but it looks real enough to freak me out.

I want to know who they think these other boys are....

[miles_draken]

From what I understand they "brand" these kids for ownership purposes, which is kinda strange since it would create a visible piece of evidence tying the perps to the kids, but anyway, that's what it is supposed to be. Ted Gunderson has this thing going all the way to the first Bush White House, which seems impossible to believe. I kinda think Johnny is alive still, but I really don't believe all the conspiracy theories about call boys wandering the White House late at night. What I really want to know is where this boys father and all his siblings are? Have they abandoned hope and not forged on with their mother? She has pursued the truth tirelessly through so much I really feel for her.

[mindi77]

Marie - I think I know which photo you are referring to. It was found in 1989 and some people think that the girl in the photo is Tara Leigh Calico. Part of the photo can be seen here: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/calico_tara.html. Their mouths are taped in this photo as opposed to being gagged in the new/old Johnny Gosch photo. I don't know whether this new/old photo is fake or not but it looks real enough to freak me out.

I want to know who they think these other boys are....



yeah i think they are different...in the link above the boy seems to have his head on a blue and white striped pillow but the one with all 3 dont seem to have a pillow. Could still be the same person doing this to the kids. Could be some psycho out there that has done this to lots of kids and there were no links so no one knows...

Just a big mystery

[Marie]

Marie - I think I know which photo you are referring to. It was found in 1989 and some people think that the girl in the photo is Tara Leigh Calico. Part of the photo can be seen here: http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/calico_tara.html. Their mouths are taped in this photo as opposed to being gagged in the new/old Johnny Gosch photo. I don't know whether this new/old photo is fake or not but it looks real enough to freak me out.

I want to know who they think these other boys are....

Yes, that's the photo I was thinking of, thanks. Both pics look so similar to me - the way they lay on the bed, curled, looking at the camera, mouths covered, fully dressed. I hope this recent pic is fake (what an awful thing to do!), and heaven help us if the same person took both pics.

Yes the pic looks real and scary but amazing things can be done with photo programs now. And EVERYONE should LOOK, no matter how much it creeps you out - you just might recognize something.

[mindi77]

From what I understand they "brand" these kids for ownership purposes, which is kinda strange since it would create a visible piece of evidence tying the perps to the kids, but anyway, that's what it is supposed to be. Ted Gunderson has this thing going all the way to the first Bush White House, which seems impossible to believe. I kinda think Johnny is alive still, but I really don't believe all the conspiracy theories about call boys wandering the White House late at night. What I really want to know is where this boys father and all his siblings are? Have they abandoned hope and not forged on with their mother? She has pursued the truth tirelessly through so much I really feel for her.



I don't know about johnny but I really wouldn't doubt it with kids and the government like that. I mean they are the government why wouldn't they make stricter laws....probably so they wouldn't have to get in that much trouble when they get caught


but i really just don't know

[T-Rex]

OMG!!

I thought it might be someone who knew the kidnapper, but was afraid to come forward all these years, and is doing so now because the kidnapper is dead.

[PlasmaFiend024]

did anyone read this?http://educate-yourself.org/tg/goschcradiointerview19aug03.shtml

i dunno if its true but it makes you think..

[cheko1]

I lived in Iowa when little Johnny Gosch disapeared.It was the very first case I ever followed & you never forget the 1st one!!!!

The newspaper did everything in its power to attempt to locate the little boy who seemed to of vanished. LE never did much of anything which was / is a shame.

Yes her story sounds far fetched & people thought she'd lost her mind. But in all sincereity & fairness to her LE "NEVER" did a darn thing to find him. They acted totally stupid. His poor Mom has been thru hell & back.

I heard back then that someone had called & reported seeing Johnny & the police chief said it couldn't of been & to quit bothering the cops. He was a JERK!

I'm sure someone is harassing his poor Mom. She isn't nuts.....she could of been on to something very big who knows. She has always stood behind her story & never has wavered at any time.

[Indy Gal]

sorry the link above is bad.here the right one
http://educate-yourself.org/tg/goschcradiointerview19aug03.shtml
Sounds like maybe he would still be alive as the mom said he called her 10 years after the fact. Did anyone else catch this???? He wouldve been an adult by then.

[SewingDeb]

Sounds like maybe he would still be alive as the mom said he called her 10 years after the fact. Did anyone else catch this???? He wouldve been an adult by then.

Actually, she claims he came to visit. From the link above:
AFP: You received a remarkable visit in your home.

NG: There was a knock at my door at about 2:30 a.m. I went to the door and I could see through the peephole that there was a young man outside. I said, "Who's there?" He said, "It's me, mom. It's Johnny." I could see that there was someone with him, but I let them in. I don't know who the other young man was. I asked, but he declined to tell me.

AFP: Johnny would have been about 24 years old at this point. What did he tell you?

NG: It was very emotional. I asked if I could call someone to come and help us, thinking that he was home to stay. But Johnny was so terrified. He said, "You don't understand. You can't call anyone. No one can know that I've been here. If you do, my life is in danger and yours might be, too. They will kill me for what I know."

Instead of pushing this issue, I said to myself, "No, I'm going to let him talk and tell me what's happened." So during our hour-and-a-half time that we had together. I learned a lot. I asked him names of people. I asked him how they did their organization. What type of things did they do? What methods did they use to traffic in children?

He was here in 1997, but I kept silent for two years and didn't tell anyone about his visit until 1999 when I was on the witness stand testifying for Paul Bonacci in his civil case. But what I had done in the meantime was to make an appointment with the county attorney. I went in and told him that I had information from an informant. I gave the county attorney the names of the people involved and how the organization worked and asked him to begin an investigation. I did not tell him that the informant was my son.

[Shadow205]

I have spent just about the entire day reading on Johnny Gosch. I honestly don't know what to think about his Mom's theory. If it is true then it is some very scary stuff and could explain how so many kids just seem to vanish into thin air.

This is a link to a very very long but informative interview with the mother

http://www.rense.com/general67/gannn.htm

[concernedperson]

OMG!!

I thought it might be someone who knew the kidnapper, but was afraid to come forward all these years, and is doing so now because the kidnapper is dead.

That is the first thought that entered my mind.And the possibility that the person is older and near death themselves.Sort of like a purification before they die.

[Sundayrain]

I caught this story on another site today. Of course, WS has the most detailed information. It has taken my breath away. The facts that you all have about the visit. I had heard it was a phone call......but a visit is mindboggling.
I am thinking there would have been no way I'd of let him leave if he entered the home to talk with me. I don't know how I would of been able to do that.
Now, these pictures.........and who are the others in the pictures?
It is just horriable to think of what was happening with these children.
I hope the FBI or some major crime unit will follow this thru now.......
get answers......
It is so sad to even think about it.

[mysteriew]

There is a thread on Johnny G. in Cold Cases. This story has been around for years and Noreen has been trying to get someone to listen to her for years. Many dismiss her as a kook, many deny that her son could have come back to see her, many deny that he could still be alive today, and many deny that such a ring could be in operation in the US.
Pornograhy and prostitution rings have been found all over the country. Last year they busted a couple of prostitution rings where they would either convince a minor child to come with them or they would kidnap her and then take her to another state to prostitute her. These kids did not seem to tell anyone what was happening to them, they were too scared.
In the past, prostitution rings have been busted that were operating out of orphanages/boys and girls camps/juvenile delinquency facilities. And those sometimes involved some local authorities.
Myself, I believe most of what Noreen says. Pedophiles can be found anywhere, and some have been found in government positions. How high up it goes, I am conflicted. I don't think the FBI has any kind of ops going on with mind control experiments going on. But it is possible that some members of the FBI could be aware of and have taken advantage of the governments past experiments in mind control. And everybody knows the kind of things a pedo will tell a kid to keep them silent. Things like their parents are dead or don't want them. Things like the authorities are involved or that they are part of a government experiment would not be a big stretch.
Is Johnny alive? I think it is possible. Who dropped off this pic? I wonder if it is Johnny. Could he be trying to give Noreen the proof she needs?

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13979&highlight=johnny+gosch

[nanandjim]

OH MY LORD...


DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) -- The mother of a boy abducted 24 years ago said she's bewildered by two photographs left at her front door, apparently showing her son and two other children bound and gagged.

The old photos appear to show 12-year-old Johnny Gosch with his mouth gagged and his hands and feet tied. The boy is wearing the same sweatpants Johnny was wearing when he disappeared while delivering newspapers on the morning of September 5, 1982, his mother said.

More at:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/01/missing.boy.photos.ap/index.html
I remember this story. However, the boy in the photograph to the far right is wearing white (light colored) jean type pants. They don't look like sweatpants to me.

[spclk]

My first thought also was that it could have been Johnny who sent the picture as you said to verify what happened to him or as a sign he was still alive. This is truly a bizarre story and it breaks my heart to look at that picture. It seems to me that someone would have recognized these boys had they been missing for so long.



There is a thread on Johnny G. in Cold Cases. This story has been around for years and Noreen has been trying to get someone to listen to her for years. Many dismiss her as a kook, many deny that her son could have come back to see her, many deny that he could still be alive today, and many deny that such a ring could be in operation in the US.
Pornograhy and prostitution rings have been found all over the country. Last year they busted a couple of prostitution rings where they would either convince a minor child to come with them or they would kidnap her and then take her to another state to prostitute her. These kids did not seem to tell anyone what was happening to them, they were too scared.
In the past, prostitution rings have been busted that were operating out of orphanages/boys and girls camps/juvenile delinquency facilities. And those sometimes involved some local authorities.
Myself, I believe most of what Noreen says. Pedophiles can be found anywhere, and some have been found in government positions. How high up it goes, I am conflicted. I don't think the FBI has any kind of ops going on with mind control experiments going on. But it is possible that some members of the FBI could be aware of and have taken advantage of the governments past experiments in mind control. And everybody knows the kind of things a pedo will tell a kid to keep them silent. Things like their parents are dead or don't want them. Things like the authorities are involved or that they are part of a government experiment would not be a big stretch.
Is Johnny alive? I think it is possible. Who dropped off this pic? I wonder if it is Johnny. Could he be trying to give Noreen the proof she needs?

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13979&highlight=johnny+gosch

[dottierainbow]

There was another pic posted of a possible Johnny with the sweats and no shirt on www.johnnygosch.com (http://www.johnnygosch.com/)
For some reason there is no access to that page now.
Amy

My first thought also was that it could have been Johnny who sent the picture as you said to verify what happened to him or as a sign he was still alive. This is truly a bizarre story and it breaks my heart to look at that picture. It seems to me that someone would have recognized these boys had they been missing for so long.

[mysteriew]

My first thought also was that it could have been Johnny who sent the picture as you said to verify what happened to him or as a sign he was still alive. This is truly a bizarre story and it breaks my heart to look at that picture. It seems to me that someone would have recognized these boys had they been missing for so long.

People's looks change if they are hidden in captivity for long enough. Noreen even said that when the boy came to her door, he told her that he was Johnny- notice it doesn't say she recognized him. That is why many people dismiss her story, that it was Johnny. But with her child missing, I believe she would have been looking at every person she came across looking for similiarities to her Johnnies, and I believe she would have found people over the years who may have had some resemblance but were not him. And so faced with a man who showed up at her home in the middle of the night, I believe that yes, it is possible that she might not have recognized him at first.

[Shadow205]

There was another pic posted of a possible Johnny with the sweats and no shirt on www.johnnygosch.com (http://www.johnnygosch.com/)
For some reason there is no access to that page now.
Amy
I copied the pictures earlier today to try and enhance them. Still working on that but here they are:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/JT.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?start=#imgAnch2)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/three.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?start=#imgAnch1)

[Shadow205]

http://www.missingkids.com/photographs/NCMC601815c1.jpg
Eugene's photo is shown age-progressed to 34 years. He was last seen between 5:30 a.m. and 6 a.m. as he was delivering newspapers. A paper bag was found outside of Des Moines with papers still inside. He has a scar on his right knee and has had a broken right wrist.

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewPoster&caseNum=601815&orgPrefix=NCMC&searchLang=en_US

In the thread in Cold Cases post #32 by Richard mentions this boy
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13979&page=2

[cheko1]

There is a thread on Johnny G. in Cold Cases. This story has been around for years and Noreen has been trying to get someone to listen to her for years. Many dismiss her as a kook, many deny that her son could have come back to see her, many deny that he could still be alive today, and many deny that such a ring could be in operation in the US.
Pornograhy and prostitution rings have been found all over the country. Last year they busted a couple of prostitution rings where they would either convince a minor child to come with them or they would kidnap her and then take her to another state to prostitute her. These kids did not seem to tell anyone what was happening to them, they were too scared.
In the past, prostitution rings have been busted that were operating out of orphanages/boys and girls camps/juvenile delinquency facilities. And those sometimes involved some local authorities.
Myself, I believe most of what Noreen says. Pedophiles can be found anywhere, and some have been found in government positions. How high up it goes, I am conflicted. I don't think the FBI has any kind of ops going on with mind control experiments going on. But it is possible that some members of the FBI could be aware of and have taken advantage of the governments past experiments in mind control. And everybody knows the kind of things a pedo will tell a kid to keep them silent. Things like their parents are dead or don't want them. Things like the authorities are involved or that they are part of a government experiment would not be a big stretch.
Is Johnny alive? I think it is possible. Who dropped off this pic? I wonder if it is Johnny. Could he be trying to give Noreen the proof she needs?

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13979&highlight=johnny+gosch
I feel the same as you do mysteryview. They have completely tried to make Noreen out to be a kook & she isn't. The denials by officals were loud & clear.

I have always hoped he'd go home just to prove to the world his Mom isn't insane. With the pictires showing up I'm sure LE did't even want to go there.They've tried keeping it as quiet as well. Something just wasn't right.

[Bobbisangel]

I remember this story. However, the boy in the photograph to the far right is wearing white (light colored) jean type pants. They don't look like sweatpants to me.



In one story the mother said that she received a phone call from Johnny in 1997 and in another she said that he came to her house in 1997. He would have been 24 yrs old by then. At 24 yrs old why couldn't they have gone to the FBI for protection and so that he could tell what had happened to him? I find it hard to believe that this boy would drop by to see his mother after 15 yrs. He couldn't stay but he wanted to fill her in about what had happened to him. Why would he still be being held at the age of 24 yrs?

I guess she would have recognized Johnny at the age of 24 yrs even if she hadn't seen him since he was 12 yrs...I don't know. Kids change a lot from 12 yrs to 24 yrs. She says that the boy on the right in that picture is Johnny because he is wearing the same sweat pants that he had on that morning but this boy isn't wearing sweat pants he is wearing pants. When I looked at the picture I thought the two kids on the left and right look related. It looks like they both have curly dark hair and the same builds. Could be the same child wearing different clothes if the picture is doctored.

So is she saying that the LE in her town, the FBI and the CIA and governments officials are all involved in this porn ring? Nothing would really surprise me but I don't know what I think about this story. Everyone in LE can't be crooked.
.................................................. .................................................. ....

Gosch believes her son was taken by child pornographers. She told authorities he briefly contacted her in 1997 but feared for his life and declined to give details about where he was. She believes his abductors got him involved in crimes, which is why he is hiding his identity.
.................................................. .................................................. ....

I took this to mean that he had called her on the phone.....but she must have been talking about his coming to her home so it sounds like he didn't call her. I wonder if she thinks that he is helping the big guys steal kids now?

[Floh]

In one story the mother said that she received a phone call from Johnny in 1997 and in another she said that he came to her house in 1997. He would have been 24 yrs old by then. At 24 yrs old why couldn't they have gone to the FBI for protection and so that he could tell what had happened to him? I find it hard to believe that this boy would drop by to see his mother after 15 yrs. He couldn't stay but he wanted to fill her in about what had happened to him. Why would he still be being held at the age of 24 yrs?

I guess she would have recognized Johnny at the age of 24 yrs even if she hadn't seen him since he was 12 yrs...I don't know. Kids change a lot from 12 yrs to 24 yrs. She says that the boy on the right in that picture is Johnny because he is wearing the same sweat pants that he had on that morning but this boy isn't wearing sweat pants he is wearing pants. When I looked at the picture I thought the two kids on the left and right look related. It looks like they both have curly dark hair and the same builds. Could be the same child wearing different clothes if the picture is doctored.

So is she saying that the LE in her town, the FBI and the CIA and governments officials are all involved in this porn ring? Nothing would really surprise me but I don't know what I think about this story. Everyone in LE can't be crooked.


The answer to the first question bolded out is in the second question bolded out, i believe.

and i feel it's certain to be the case, yet i have nothing but gut to go on.

[Janet]

Does Johnny's mom still live in the same house as when he disappeared?

[Bobbisangel]

Does Johnny's mom still live in the same house as when he disappeared?


I believe that I read that she moved in 2003.

[Marie]

In one story the mother said that she received a phone call from Johnny in 1997 and in another she said that he came to her house in 1997. He would have been 24 yrs old by then. At 24 yrs old why couldn't they have gone to the FBI for protection and so that he could tell what had happened to him? I find it hard to believe that this boy would drop by to see his mother after 15 yrs. He couldn't stay but he wanted to fill her in about what had happened to him. Why would he still be being held at the age of 24 yrs?


Supposedly he can't go to the FBI because the government is involved in the porno ring/conspiracy. But I don't have much respect for a grown man who won't risk his own skin in order to save children from the same horrors - I speak not only of the adult John but also of the other 'boys' who supposedly escaped with him. But then I'm not one of those who believes 1/4 of what his mother states.

[Janet]

She received these photos at her new address?



I believe that I read that she moved in 2003.

[Floh]

Supposedly he can't go to the FBI because the government is involved in the porno ring/conspiracy. But I don't have much respect for a grown man who won't risk his own skin in order to save children from the same horrors - I speak not only of the adult John but also of the other 'boys' who supposedly escaped with him. But then I'm not one of those who believes 1/4 of what his mother states.

No telling what psychological demons hound a man who was tortured as a boy. no telling what he can face up to. or can't.

[Bobbisangel]

Floh,

Seems to me they could have gone to another state instead of going to someone close to home. Every branch of LE in every state isn't crooked. I'm sure that the mother must have newspaper clippings from when Johnny was taken...proof that he had been taken when he was a child. He could tell the rest of the story if it was really him.

If he was bold enough to come to her house at 24 yrs why hasn't he kept in touch with her by cell phone or phone? Even a call every few months to let her know that he is alright. And if he came to see her why did she hire investigators to find him? Or was that only before he came to see her?

I can believe that there are people in high up places that are perverts and like little kids. I can also believe that they have hired people get the little kids for them. They are probably an organization of peds who live secret lives and no one knows it but each other. In this day and age nothing would surprise me. It's probably been going on for years and years. I've read books about stuff like that but they were fiction.

Is there a book about the "Franklin" case? Was it a true story?

[Floh]

Floh,

Seems to me they could have gone to another state instead of going to someone close to home. Every branch of LE in every state isn't crooked. I'm sure that the mother must have newspaper clippings from when Johnny was taken...proof that he had been taken when he was a child. He could tell the rest of the story if it was really him.

If he was bold enough to come to her house at 24 yrs why hasn't he kept in touch with her by cell phone or phone? Even a call every few months to let her know that he is alright. And if he came to see her why did she hire investigators to find him? Or was that only before he came to see her?

I can believe that there are people in high up places that are perverts and like little kids. I can also believe that they have hired people get the little kids for them. They are probably an organization of peds who live secret lives and no one knows it but each other. In this day and age nothing would surprise me. It's probably been going on for years and years. I've read books about stuff like that but they were fiction.

Is there a book about the "Franklin" case? Was it a true story?

If what is suggested (the abduction into a paedophile ring) happened, he's likely mentally ill.

if he risked visiting his mother, he's likely mentally ill.

mental illness often provides no logic, does it? :(


In this day and age nothing would surprise me. It's probably been going on for years and years.

i agree and i believe so. :(

[Kim Ii]

Breaking News on the Gosch case. Noreen Gosch, Johnny's Mom, states two pictures of Johnny, tied up, most likely right after his kidnapping, appeared on her front door step (CNN broke the news today).

Here is the link to Wikipedia, which will link you to one of the pics. I have viewed the picture and it does truly look like Johnny. This is horrifying. I've always felt Noreen was credible (although I've not yet read her book).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Gosch#2006_Photos

[Old Broad]

About people in authority being involved in pedophile rings. IMO it certainly can be possible. Just like everyone saw with John Karr, he placed himself into positions where he had access to small children. I don't believe he wanted to become a teacher because he wanted to teach but because he wanted to be where he could be alone with children. If someone is sick enough to want certain things they will and do find ways to help them get what they want. I'm not saying all LE are bad but I do believe there is a certain percentage who get into it for very sick reasons.

OB

[michelle]

Breaking News on the Gosch case. Noreen Gosch, Johnny's Mom, states two pictures of Johnny, tied up, most likely right after his kidnapping, appeared on her front door step (CNN broke the news today).

Here is the link to Wikipedia, which will link you to one of the pics. I have viewed the picture and it does truly look like Johnny. This is horrifying. I've always felt Noreen was credible (although I've not yet read her book).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Gosch#2006_PhotosWasnt this story broke yesterday? There is a link about it already.:waitasec:

[mysteriew]

Supposedly he can't go to the FBI because the government is involved in the porno ring/conspiracy. But I don't have much respect for a grown man who won't risk his own skin in order to save children from the same horrors - I speak not only of the adult John but also of the other 'boys' who supposedly escaped with him. But then I'm not one of those who believes 1/4 of what his mother states.

Kids abducted at a young age often feel guilt as if it was somehow their fault for what happened. Maybe they feel they didn't fight hard enough, or weren't strong enough, or blame themselves for things they didn't do or for believing what the abductor told them. Kids a lot of times blame themselves for what happens in their immediate world.
Abductors even exploit that sometimes. Now this is just a guess....but I have heard of porno being made using multiple children, with one child abusing another. That would be an additional means of control with an abductor being able to tell the victim "I have you on tape abusing this child and that child". So even as an adult he may be afraid of coming forward because he is afraid of being accused of those things.
Like I said, I am not a big believer of any large government conspiracy. But what if a child is told- who are you going to tell- that man is a police officer or FBI. You can't go to them because they are with us. And if we find out that you tried to tell, we will kill you and your family. Even the president will protect us. It wouldn't take long for the child to be too afraid of going to authorities. And it wouldn't take long for thoughts of a government conspiracy to develop.
You have to keep in mind....he was a kid. And he has lived with this for more than 12 years with no sign of rescue.

[Kim Ii]

Here is a link, sadly, regarding kiddie porn rings/exploitation of children: (truly frightening):

http://netmar.com/~maat/archive/jul2/industry.htm'

[Cypros]

I am confused about this new photo. The mother says that it shows Johnny wearing the same sweat pants he was wearing when kidnapped, but NONE of the three boys in the photo are wearing sweats. They are all wearing jeans -- two are wearing blue jeans and one a pair of white or khaki jeans. WHICH one is supposed to be Johnny?

[dottierainbow]

Here's another pic with possible Johnny in sweatpants. Shadow saved it. Here it is http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/JT.jpg
Amy



I am confused about this new photo. The mother says that it shows Johnny wearing the same sweat pants he was wearing when kidnapped, but NONE of the three boys in the photo are wearing sweats. They are all wearing jeans -- two are wearing blue jeans and one a pair of white or khaki jeans. WHICH one is supposed to be Johnny?

[Kim Ii]

Here is a link to an interview with Mr. John DeCamp, former Senator, now practicing attorney. Mr. DeCamp has written a book on the Gosch case, entitled, "The Franklin Cover-Up."

Here's the link: (this is a great interview, especially for those of you who may find this case a bit difficult to accept): http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2004/210704johndecamp.htm

[Trino]

I think the photo will give Noreen Gosch credibility, which she has not been given by LE. Over the years she's said some strange things and has made strange accusations, but who's to say how anyone would react over the kidnapping of a child. I think she's grasping at strings by charging that Jeff Gannon is her child.

But, who would send these photos - on her birthday - and why?

[Shadow205]

I found this about the pictures:

Meanwhile, others connected to the case have reported receiving the photographs through anonymous deliveries and the Internet.



"We are in the process of researching where they came from and whether they've been doctored up," West Des Moines police Lt. Jeff Miller told the Des Moines Register.
http://www.wral.com/news/9778102/detail.html

So if I am reading the above correctly, Noreen was not the only to receive these photo's. The way the article reads is that others connected to the case received the photo's too and some through the internet. Hopefully they will be able to trace where those were sent from.

[inquiringmindz]

I found this about the pictures:

Meanwhile, others connected to the case have reported receiving the photographs through anonymous deliveries and the Internet.



"We are in the process of researching where they came from and whether they've been doctored up," West Des Moines police Lt. Jeff Miller told the Des Moines Register.
http://www.wral.com/news/9778102/detail.html

So if I am reading the above correctly, Noreen was not the only to receive these photo's. The way the article reads is that others connected to the case received the photo's too and some through the internet. Hopefully they will be able to trace where those were sent from.If others had received the photos and had a good idea that it was JG, I wonder if they ever let the family in on this? I would have thought she had the right to know that information. I wonder if they received the photos around the same time or if sporatically throughout the years. I guess the "others connected" would be LE . If so, do they have a clue about the other boys?

[less0305]

I remember this story. However, the boy in the photograph to the far right is wearing white (light colored) jean type pants. They don't look like sweatpants to me.

I was wondering if anyone else notice this also. I had to read through all posts to see if anyone else posted this. It does appear to be white jeans, not sweatpants in the photo.

[inquiringmindz]

I was wondering if anyone else notice this also. I had to read through all posts to see if anyone else posted this. It does appear to be white jeans, not sweatpants in the photo.NG received two pictures. One of of JG by himself in the black (or dark) sweatpants and the other is of the three boys and she pointed him out to be the one on the right in the white pants. (Thanks for posting the pics, shadow205)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/JT.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?start=#imgAnch2)


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/three.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?start=#imgAnch1)

[*02]

On Noreen's site it shows 2 pictures side by side, one of him in the sweatpants and the one of the three boys. I believe the first pic is the one she was referring to about the pants.

ETA: Inquiring and I were posting at the same time. Thanks for posting the pics.

[less0305]

Thanks for clearing that up, Inquiringmindz. I guess I didn't understand at first that she received two pictures. :)

[Beyond Belief]

I copied the pictures earlier today to try and enhance them. Still working on that but here they are:

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/JT.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?start=#imgAnch2)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/three.jpg (http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/shadow205/?start=#imgAnch1)
Have you found anything, Shadow?

Sleeve of the No 15 shirt sleeve looks like it has Lettering , then underneath
Jimmy or Johnny ?somebody.
New York is under the 15. New york mets probably.

I assume this is a football shirt, but I am not up on who the a famous number 15 was.

Also the chld/maybe girl on left of photo, it you do a 90 degree motion it stand straight up.
Center child has very difined border on hair, like cut and paste.

Just some observations.

[sillyhead]

And I thought the JonBenet case was convoluted! I somehow ended up reading about Reyelen Allen, OMG! I know one thing, though, I will never read anything written by Alex Jones again. Whew!

That boyexploited guy sounds like someone I know of from another site, but he's from PA. Freaks everywhere!

I sure hope this goes somewhere. The JMK stuff has me feeling despondent.

[LovelyPigeon]

I'm in the group of people who think that mother has gone off the deep end, whether because of her son's disappearance, or even before that.

It's a sad case, anyway, and I hope these photographs can lead to some resolution.

[misterallgood]

So, anyone wonder why a kidnapper would buy Johnny a whole new outfit? Because that appears it would have been the case -- the kid in the white jeans, I mean. There's the one photo of (allegedly) Johnny in sweats, then he's in jeans.

In both, he's wearing socks.

From the Doe Network listing on Johnny (http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/160dmia.html):
Clothing: A white sweatshirt with Kim's Academy imprinted on the back, warm-up pants and blue rubber thong sandals.

Johnny was wearing socks with thong sandals in early September, when it would have likely still been warm, even in Iowa?

I think, taken on their own merits, there is no doubt these photos are really troubling. But I have some problems with them surfacing now, and the source. Have any of you read up much on what Noreen's said in the past?

I think the timing of reports about these photos is really suspicious. But after the last couple of weeks of clamoring about the useless little weirdo, John Mark Karr, I'm probably overly-skeptical about "stunning new developments" in stories like these.

Steve

edited to add: I double-checked -- okay, the kid in the dark sweats is barefoot... lending credence to the idea that that particular photo could really be of Johnny Gosch. I still want to know why the kid Noreen says is Johnny in the other photo is wearing an entirely different set of clothing. I have a hard time making sense out of that.

[LovelyPigeon]

Have any of you read up much on what Noreen's said in the past?

Yes, which is why I've long thought that she's off the deep end.

[inquiringmindz]

So, anyone wonder why a kidnapper would buy Johnny a whole new outfit? Because that appears it would have been the case -- the kid in the white jeans, I mean. There's the one photo of (allegedly) Johnny in sweats, then he's in jeans.

edited to add: I double-checked -- okay, the kid in the dark sweats is barefoot... lending credence to the idea that that particular photo could really be of Johnny Gosch. I still want to know why the kid Noreen says is Johnny in the other photo is wearing an entirely different set of clothing. I have a hard time making sense out of that.I was wondering what the time difference was inbetween pictures. I would assume whoever took these children would have more than one set of clothes for them. If they were kidnapped for some sort of sex ring, I would think they would need to look presentable and in clean clothes.

Yes, in IA you can still wear thongs and sweats in September. Our weather is crazy here, 50 in the morning and 80 by afternoon.

Also,shadow205 found a new news report in which other people involved with the case also received these pictures. I don't know if the time frame coincides with when his mother received them or not.
http://www.wral.com/news/9778102/detail.html

[Trocaria]

I think the photo will give Noreen Gosch credibility, which she has not been given by LE. Over the years she's said some strange things and has made strange accusations, but who's to say how anyone would react over the kidnapping of a child. I think she's grasping at strings by charging that Jeff Gannon is her child.

But, who would send these photos - on her birthday - and why?
Maybe this is a method of

A) Johnny himself trying to get the case back on the front page and hopefully break the case. Noreen was not the only person to get these photos.

B) The ring trying to flush Johnny out of hiding so that they can knock him off

I predict that the Des Moines LE will pooh-pooh the whole thing and claim that it is not Johnny or that it was photoshopped or some other such lame excuse for it not being what even the most casual viewer can tell it is: a photo of a kidnapped Johnny Gosch!

:eek:

[twinkiesmom]

<<So, anyone wonder why a kidnapper would buy Johnny a whole new outfit? >>

Because it's obvious in this case that they kept him longterm, not just a random pedophile at work here.

If there is a conspiracy operating here, I imagine that they'd like nothing better for everyone to believe that Noreen's crazy.

Fine, be a skeptic, but keep an open mind.

[LovelyPigeon]

Since Noreen claims that Johnny came to see her in 1997, and if the photos are 'real', she might have had the photos since 1997.

In this linked interview, Noreen apparently said that Johnny is going by the names of Jeff Gannon and James Guckert as a blogger or bloggers, working as a reporter "around George Bush": http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/03/313178.shtml

[Shadow205]

Since Noreen claims that Johnny came to see her in 1997, and if the photos are 'real', she might have had the photos since 1997.

In this linked interview, Noreen apparently said that Johnny is going by the names of Jeff Gannon and James Guckert as a blogger or bloggers, working as a reporter "around George Bush": http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/03/313178.shtml
Here is a link to Jeff Gannon's blog

http://www.jeffgannon.com/

[i.b.nora]

T E D
G U N D E R S O N

Enough said. - i.b.

[Shadow205]

Since I.B. Nora brought up Ted Gunderson, here is a link to his website. Those who have not followed this case through all of the bizarr twists, turns & accusations need to read writtings from all involved in order to form their own opinions.

http://www.tedgunderson.com/Bohemian%20Grove/Articles/TOTAL%20INFORMATION%20ANALYSIS.htm

[LovelyPigeon]

From wikipedia.com:

Johnny Gosch and Jeff Gannon
In 2005, Gosch was the subject of a conspiracy theory centering around conservative journalist Jeff Gannon. In the 1990's, Gannon ran a homosexual escort service under his real name, James Guckert. Gannon/Guckert's escort service reportedly serviced Washington, D.C. political clients, and paid visits to the White House. The first public speculation linking the two cases occurred on February 26, 2005, on The Democratic Underground, a liberal political website.

Skeptics of the Gannon connection point out that no DNA evidence has ever been tendered, the ages of Gosch and Gannon do not match, nor do they resemble one another. Gannon himself does not lend any credence to the theory and flatly denies that he is Johnny Gosch. Conspiracy theorists counter that Gannon may be unaware he is Gosch, all memory of his past life perhaps obliterated by MK-Ultra, Project Monarch, or complicity with the conspiracy.

On July 8, 2005 Jeff Gannon called into the radio program A Closer Look hosted by Michael Corbin and agreed to take a DNA test to prove he was not the missing boy. As of June 2006 Gannon has not taken the test even though the offer remains open with Johnny's mom Noreen Gosch. On May 10, 2006 occult author William H. Kennedy was a guest on A Closer Look and renewed the offer for Gannon to take the DNA test with Norren Gosch. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Gosch

[Shadow205]

I don't understand why Gannon doesn't just do the DNA test. If her is absolutely certain that he is not Johnny then the DNA test would be an end to this. If he isn't so sure or knows that he is Johnny then I can see why he might not want to do the DNA test.

There is so much to read on all of the people who could possibly be connected to the dissapearance of Johnny Gosch that it is going to be quite a while before I form an opinion on this one.

[misterallgood]

Hey, I've been one of those people who said things like, "fine, be a skeptic." I know that phrases like that really mean that the skeptic is perceived as needling the non-skeptic.

Please do not take my skepticism personally.

As to open mind -- after all the research I've done writing professionally and as a blogger over the last couple of years, I've found that more often than not, the more prosaic answer is the resolution of the mystery. BTK was a nebbishy dog catcher in Park City, not Hannibal Lecter.

Conversely, when the Groene children were first abducted, I just couldn't believe that family had been killed by a sexual predator so motivated to kidnap two children that he would kill three other people with exceptional violence to do so. Turns out I was dead wrong, unfortunately, and that was (allegedly) precisely what happened. I know there are exceptions to all these 'rules.'

I will say this -- one angle I can't even begin to seriously entertain is the Jeff Gannon/James Guckert/Johnny Gosch connection. Guckert is 10 years older than Gosch would have been. How much plastic surgery would Johnny have had to end up looking like Guckert? The bone structure is all wrong.

That said, I know there are a ton of people who can't stand the idea that a story like this may be simpler than it seems. I don't completely reject the idea that some sort of network of sexual predators might have been responsible for Johnny's disappearance as well as some of the photos Noreen has -- but I don't accept it at face value, is what I'm saying.

Steve