What happened to Johnny Gosch? ALL THREADS MERGED HERE

[miles_draken]

I remember the first time I realized that people take children. It was September 1982 in the city of Des Moines Iowa that an 11 year old paperboy named Johnny Gosch was taken while working his Sunday morning paper route. What followed was a completely botched investigation by the police department and a mother who made it her lifes work to make sure nothing like this ever happened to anyone else's child. Noreen Gosch has gone on to write legislation for missing children. Her own child Johnny was taken from her for 14 years. When she finally saw him again it was only briefly. He now lives under an assumed identity, fearful for his life. This is worthy of anyones time to read. It is a shocking account with more twists than anything Hollywood could come up with. God bless Noreen Gosch in all of her work, and God bless Johnny and all the other children like him who have met similair fates at the hands of these terrible people. I would welcome posts from anyone who knows more about this case. I've investigate what I could on the web. Here is a link to the web site Noreen Gosch started. I invite everyone to read their incredible story.

www.johnnygosch.com (http://www.johnnygosch.com)

[2sisters]

I read the story before about the man claiming to be Johnny coming to see her. Has it been confirmed as him? I wondered if it was a hoax when i read it, not that she was involved but someone was tricking her for fun. Some people might think that was funny and play with her that way.

[miles_draken]

According to Norreen it was indeed Johnny. She claimed that she answered the door and saw this grown man she didn't know with the childs eyes she had loved. It was by all accounts her son. She didn't admit to seeing him until on the stand testifing in a case. I think it was kept secret for something like 3 years if memory serves me correctly. There is so much more that continues to happen with this case after the book was written. As recently as last year Norreen found a blow up doll with a single bullet hole in the head placed outside her apartment door. It is an ongoing and sad saga. At one point her P.I. attended a child slavery auction hoping to buy JOhnny back, but he was not one of the children. This entire saga can be cross referenced with the Franklin Credit Union Cover-UP. What a sorted tale indeed.

[less0305]

This was an incredible story to read. I had absolutely no knowledge of this information....but at the time I would have been in my 20's and who knows if I was keeping up on political affairs and such. Gee, that is truly an amazing story.

[lisag]

I have a hard time believing it was actually Johnny who came to see her. Something sounds weird here...
Why would he not come forward and help have these people arrested...
Why would he not want to have a relationship with his mother ??
I am just not sure about this...

If it is him, it doesn't sound like he has actually escapes his hell, as he still has to hide....

I am on the fence here...

[messiecake]

Lisa I agree.
This story is "fantastic" isn't it?

Child Slave auctions,assumed names,a vast international conspiracy-GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!

Where is the FBI? Why didn't the P.I tell them about this "auction" and since Johnny is an adult why would he have been there for "sale"?

This is a cruel hoax,a kooky conspiracy theory gone awry or someone so beheld by grief theyve gone mad.


Im not on the fence..........I don't buy it at all.
Yes Johnny went missing but everything else stinks of b.s!

[2sisters]

That's why I made a post on this forum. I am curious about proof, I read the conspiracy theory and it doesn't add up. I am so sorry for the Gosch family that they have not only lost a child but have been sucked into this.

[miles_draken]

all the evidence gathered was done by Norreen Gosch and her team of Private Detectives. I have thoroughly researched this and listened to her on many radio broadcasts, I firmly believe this story to be accurate. I don't know about the higher level government stuff, but read the Gunderson Report on the Franklin Credit Union scandal, it's very convincing. FBI and LE didn't assist much in this case from the beginning, there was no law back then, and they used their option to wait 72 hours to do anything. FBI never entered Johnny's case as a missing person, their response was they had no proof a crime had been committed. Just remember folks, truth is stranger than fiction!

[messiecake]

Ever listen to AM Radio's "Coast To Coast" show?

There's "experts" on there too so you're telling me that if they sound convincing enough they're telling the truth?(for those who don't know "Coast To Coast" is a totally off the wall radio show with people calling in to discuss their alien abductions and how the CIA faked the moon landing!).
What reasearch have you done anyway? Reading Noreen's materials? Thats more than slightly biased no?
Noreen has my prayers and my sympathy and I belive fact is usually stranger than fiction but this far rereaching child slavery conspiracy is just cukoo .

I can read numerous books about all sorts of things and listen to a myriad of "experts" and "eyewitnesses" and "investigators" and I can belive what they say BUT that doesnt make it true.Look at the "satanic panic" in the '80s.Alot of innocent people were accused and convicted of being involved in a mass satanic child molestation conspiracy based on "investigators" and "experts" and lo and behold it wasn't true!

I am not trashing the Gosch family.They have been through hell but devoting time to this nonsense takes time away from real investigations.

If this story is true please tell me why hasen't Noreen and her"investigators" gone to the FBI? Why isn't NCMEC shouting about this from the rooftops? Wheres AMW?


When you can answer these questions I might be further inclined to listen.

[blaster]

It is a very ignorant thing to disbelieve in child slavery. This kind of thing happens all over the world and throughout history. So go ahead why don't you go to the press and discredit Johnny and Noreen Gosch I'd like to see what the reply would be, and for your info the FBI were investigating this and from what I've seen some of you should do a little researching yourselves before you junior investigators screw with someones life. As long as there are people like you kids like Johnny will never go home.
Special Agent FBI Ted L. Gunderson's report (http://www.iahf.com/other/20001202a.html)
:waitasec:

[miles_draken]

You are correct, the FBI did get involved in this case some time later. THey were told by Des Moines PD that they didn't need their help in the case, as they were treating it as a runaway, even though several eye-witnesses saw the car and mysterious man. This wasn't a runaway. It is amazing to me in a forum like this that people are so quickly to disbelieve a story like this. What exactly about this is unbelievable? A few years ago people would have said it unbelievable that terrorists could do the damage to this country that they've done. THings are only unbelievable until the masses believe. I don't know how much of the reports NOrreen and her investigators have uncovered is factual, but I truly believe her. She's crusaded for over twenty years now to help other children. Because of her there is no longer a 72 hour wait and see period, and the FBI become involved a lot more quickly. You can pick and choose what you want to believe from what has been presented with 20 years of research and investigation, but why is this any more unbelievable than the book " A Beautiful Child"? I know this is a true account of a strange case, should we dismiss the Johnny Gosch case as bull in comparison?

[blaster]

CNN NEWS (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/03/08/women.trafficking/)
The day my God died (http://http://thedaymygoddied.com/overview.html) and on and on........yahoo has 469,000 refs. of child sex slavery. But, none of this really happens and children don't really go missing they just get a little misplaced that's all. :liar:

[Ghostwheel]

CNN NEWS (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/03/08/women.trafficking/)
The day my God died (http://http://thedaymygoddied.com/overview.html) and on and on........yahoo has 469,000 refs. of child sex slavery. But, none of this really happens and children don't really go missing they just get a little misplaced that's all. :liar:No one said this doesn't happen. They have stated their opinions that they don't think it happened in this particular case, BECAUSE it seems unlikely that if such a thing would happen, the the person to whom it happened to would just walk away and nothing would get settled, and no one would be investigated or arrested. They might have stated their opinion a little more gently, but it is still a valid opinion.

I thought there used to be a thread on this with a lot of really good information.
Website is here:
http://www.johnnygosch.com/

I believe Noreen believes this was her child. I didn't know him, but my inclination is to disbelieve his claims BECAUSE if he was so worried about the slavers in his past that he cannot come home, why would he knowingly endanger his mother by even coming by the house? That would be incredibly foolish, both for his safety and hers. The people who operate these rings are dangerous, from all I have read.

[2sisters]

Everyone on this forum has opinion and thoughts of certain cases. Nobody's theory is "ignornat". Someone's ignorant theory could solve a case. Yes the story is far fetched and yes I suppose possible. If this story is true then I urge Johnny Gosch to come forward and tell his story publicly and stop this from happening to other children right now before it continues on. If he survived that, then he needs to come forward and stop it. All I want to know is why this story is not more publisized on mainstream media. As far as the Sharon Marshall case, if there were not so much evidence on her case then it would not be belived and if there were nothing solid to back it up then I admit, I would not belive her story. I think the people on this forum are quite helpful and caring and it is people like this that bring children home and solve cases.

[messiecake]

No one said this doesn't happen. They have stated their opinions that they don't think it happened in this particular case, BECAUSE it seems unlikely that if such a thing would happen, the the person to whom it happened to would just walk away and nothing would get settled, and no one would be investigated or arrested. They might have stated their opinion a little more gently, but it is still a valid opinion.

I thought there used to be a thread on this with a lot of really good information.
Website is here:
http://www.johnnygosch.com/

I believe Noreen believes this was her child. I didn't know him, but my inclination is to disbelieve his claims BECAUSE if he was so worried about the slavers in his past that he cannot come home, why would he knowingly endanger his mother by even coming by the house? That would be incredibly foolish, both for his safety and hers. The people who operate these rings are dangerous, from all I have read.


Thank you GW and 2Sisters,
I know all too well the horrors that befall children in our world.I have never or would ever deny this but I do not belive thats what happened in this case!!


AND INSTEAD OF ATTACKING ME JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS!!!!!

Where is NCMEC is this? Where is the FBI? (all "Miles" did was say they were involved but gave no follow up) Where are any other "investigators" NOT paid for by or involved with but totally independant from Noreen?

Having an obvious troll call me "ignorant" doesnt answer those questions does it?

[lisag]

Blaster - you should think before you speak, or type !!

I never said I didn't believe in child slavery.. I am sure that it does exist. And it may have happened with Johnny...
But I dont believe that he suddenly came home as an adult man, visited his mother once, told her not to tell anyone and that he was still endanger...
Knowing what he "went through" you would think he would want to tell - to help arrest the SOB's that did this... so that it would not happen to another child again.. I am not buying it..

No one is trashing the Goschs's and no one wants to stop them finding answers... I believe that Noreen BELIEVES it was her son... I think someone is playing with her mind and THAT is what could hinder the investigation - not "posters" like us.

JMHO

[exoromeo]

Parts of the story sound plausible....parts sound a little "fishy."

For example, it mentions Michael LaVey (Anton LaVey's son)....well, Anton had three children, none named Michael. LaVey fathered three children, two daughters named Karla and Zeena, and one son named Xerxes. (Born Xerxes Carnacki LaVey on November 1st, 1993 to Anton LaVey and Blanche Barton. LaVey's only son).

Sorta off-topic, but relevant to my post, there was a guy in California named Anthony Jess LaVey (supposedly). He was (again supposedly) the son of Anton and had converted to Christianity. He went around preaching on the religious circuit about Satanism, the occult, etc. When contacted and asked for documentation to support his claims, Jess "LaVey" responded that he was unable to provide evidence due to satanic conspiracies against him.

So, the LaVey part definitely adds a credibility issue to at least one person involved (or at least mentioned in the story).

[miles_draken]

The reason Johnny can't come home, which is the main theme of the story, is that he is in hiding and fearful of his life from this syndicate of child pornographers and kidnappers who would do anything to protect their lifestyle. From what I gathered from the story there have been other people "silenced" who were involved. I believe his fears would be justified. Also, he has his mother, father, and siblings to think about protecting as well. I am off to do more reading on this to see if there has been any recent updates. Thanks for posting everyone, this is a great forum!

[lisag]

The reason Johnny can't come home, which is the main theme of the story, is that he is in hiding and fearful of his life from this syndicate of child pornographers and kidnappers who would do anything to protect their lifestyle. From what I gathered from the story there have been other people "silenced" who were involved. I believe his fears would be justified. Also, he has his mother, father, and siblings to think about protecting as well. I am off to do more reading on this to see if there has been any recent updates. Thanks for posting everyone, this is a great forum!


So what you saying is that he is too fearful for his life and the lives of his family to come home, to talk to authorities and give names.. But he is not fearful for all the other children this could happen to if he does not come forward ??????????????

[miles_draken]

We don't know how we would react to any situation until we were in it. Remember, this kid has been supposedly brainwashed and tortured. There comes a time when self preservation out weighs everything else. It is easy to sit here and think that we would help these other children even if it meant our lives, but until we are in the situation we don't know for sure. Also, Johnny has atleast 2 siblings that I know of, and parents. SHould this be his cross to bear?

[messiecake]

If he was brainwashed how would he remember anything or think it was ok just to visit that one time none of this is making anything sense so I just dont buy it!

Again "Miles":IS NCMEC INVOLVED ? WHAT EXACTLY HAS BEEN THE FBI'S INVOLVEMENT?

[miles_draken]

I am not sure of the FBI involvement, I do know there was a confrontation between Johnnys mother and an agent in her home. Johnny gave her names to aide in arrests. When his mother went to the police to try and get protective custody for him, Witness Protection, in turn for his testimony, the police were non committal. Remember, the police chief at the time of his dissapearance was discovered later to be involved with people suspected in his kidnapping. I'm continuing to explore these different issues you bring up here, I do have a job though and can't committ full time, I'd appreciate any help in investigating the different aspects of this case. I really don't have any info from the Law Enforcement side of this case, I can't seem to locate any. Again, any help in answering these questions would be greatly appreciated. THanks!

[emma l]

Guys,

You can go to www.johnnygosch.com and read a whole chapter on-line, for free, of the book Johnnys mother wrote "Why can't Johnny come home", its a very interesting read and should help you make up your mind!

Theres also some interesting pictures at the end of the sample chapter including a poster that Johnnys mother and others in her town were sent anonymously with the police composite sketch and a picture of the man Noreen claims is partly responsible side-by-side. The anonymous sender has drawn an arrow between the 2 photos..........

Personally, I don't know what to think. I very much doubt his mothers story but I do feel incredibly sorry for her, it just seems so far-fetched. But on the other hand, maybe thats exactly the reason why these people have got away with it for so long.

Very weird. It would be great to think Johnny was still alive though.............

I would LOVE to investigate this case a bit further but wouldn't have a clue where to start. All the information on-line is stuff provided by Johnnys mother. We'd need independent witness accounts. Any ideas?

[lisag]

Guys,

You can go to www.johnnygosch.com and read a whole chapter on-line, for free, of the book Johnnys mother wrote "Why can't Johnny come home", its a very interesting read and should help you make up your mind!

I did read that - its all what his mother says - I need more than just what she says... After reading that and hearing what I have heard, I still dont buy it. I cant believe that there is not one officer and not one FBI agent willing to help this woman out. Maybe at the time, she was having trouble, but not now. If she went to them and said he needed protection, I cant imagine that they would be "non commital".

[blaster]

His ID and story were verified.

http://http://www.americanfreepress.net/RFA_Articles/Kidnapping_Case_Implicates_Top/kidnapping_case_implicates_top.html

http://http://www.donnachapel.com/johnny_gosch.html

This pains me that too many people are willing to write this story off. What bothers me more is that if a child has been gone too long the LE's write them off for dead. I feel this is the wrong thing to do. We should never stop looking, ever. Some of these kids could be hiding out homeless somewhere trying to stay off the "grid".........It's very sad these kids need someone to stand up for them not refuse them help and invalidate their experience. If I had to I would put myself in danger to bring them home but, not without a little back-up of course. I'm in the process of getting some of my own documents together and thinking about making my story public.....(cult related) In fact, I just got verification that there are some documents but, I have to verify my ID before they can send them. So, within a few weeks I'll be going cross country to get most of these together and get them out so stay tuned I promise this will be interesting. But, I have a reason to feel the way I do. I think if anyone pops up you have to give them the benefit of the doubt and listen, then point them in the right direction. Don't shoot them down, help them as much as possible if they are lying that will come out in the long run if not you'll be hero's. LE's and NCMEC do investigate this stuff they just won't talk about it so they won't blow any leads.......dodging bullets is tough work. These kids really need someone to stand up for them because they are broken. Please give them the chance they diserve.....I may be putting my life on the line very soon but, there are things people need to know and I hope I have the attention of all here and elsewhere....I promise I have a really interesting story to tell and I need some open minds.
:truce:

[miles_draken]

The links above didn't work for me, i'd be very interested in reading what was there. There are too many kids dissapearing in this country, there is in fact organized white slavery of children, and too discredit them is to lend a helping hand to those who would take them. Remember, the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist in the first place.

[blueclouds]

CNN NEWS (http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/03/08/women.trafficking/)
The day my God died (http://http://thedaymygoddied.com/overview.html) and on and on........yahoo has 469,000 refs. of child sex slavery. But, none of this really happens and children don't really go missing they just get a little misplaced that's all. :liar:
Blaster I truly hope you're not the one in same RE: chapman. The head people here can check your isp addy's. Please don't cause heartaches. No one is saying that it doesn't happen or hasn't happened; but offering up no other concrete proof; how can anyone believe that Noreen truly saw her son. She so badly wanted it to be him and it was the middle of the night.

Don't cause trouble here. You can discuss things and offer opinions without slamming others.

[miles_draken]

I think this is a great forum for discussing these cases, not arguing. I agree that people get pretty upset when their opinions are attacked. My belief is that this forum is used to bounce theories back and forth amoungst users, some of us are seasoned investigators, others are novices. We can all work together and maybe come up with some things that nobody else thought of. I enjoy hearing from all of you regarding this case of Johnny Gosch. If I seem a bit passionate in defense of his mothers beliefs I apologize. This case has haunted me most of my life, and her side is really all I've been able to find. I would love to know LE's side or the FBI's for that matter. If anyone has any information regarding this case from any angle I'd love to read about it. THanks so much guys for contributing to this thread, I enjoy hearing from all of you!

[blaster]

Who's chapman?
the links didn't work for me when I tried them so I'll repost them here.......It's not slamming when you know the truth and want people to see.
Donna Chapel (http://www.donnachapel.com/johnny_gosch.html)
free press (http://www.americanfreepress.net/RFA_Articles/Kidnapping_Case_Implicates_Top/kidnapping_case_implicates_top.html)
I'm just a simple fisherman blessed with many friends.
here's a few more.
Indy media (http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/06/63697.php)
Franklin cover-up (http://www.thelawparty.org/FranklinCoverup/franklin.htm)
more Franklin cover-up (http://www.davidicke.net/tellthetruth/coverups/decamp.html)
This stuff was all over the news last year.
http://blastered0tripod.com/me3.jpg

[messiecake]

Blaster I truly hope you're not the one in same RE: chapman.

I was thinking about "boy exploited" and that whole fiasco too!!!
:cool:

[tybee204]

One in the same. he is gone.
tybee

[Richard]

A very closely matching crime to the Johnny Gosch kidnapping is that if the abduction of Eugene Martin, also a newsboy, also of Des Moines, Iowa. Eugene was on his paper route early in the morning of 12 August 1984. He was seen talking to a white male who was "about the age of his father". There was nothing suspicious about it, but in a matter of twenty minutes, Eugene disappeared and has not been seen since.
Usually, Gene delivered the papers with his older stepbrother, but on this occasion, he was alone.
Eugene got up that morning at 4:30 and left the house at 5:00. Between 5:45 and 6:05, he was seen folding papers and talking to a man on teh corner only a few blocks from his house. Between 6:10 and 6:15, the bag was on the ground with 10 folded papers in it and Eugene was gone. When calls came in to the paper manager that people were missing their morning newspapers, the manager went out, found the bag and delivered the papers. He did not start looking for Eugene again until 8:40AM. Classic case of someone finding something obviously wrong, but not thinking it was important enough to mention.
Some investigators feel that the two cases (Gosch and Martin) are connected, but there is no physical evidence to link the two.

------------------
EUGENE MARTIN
Non-Family Abduction
DOB: Aug 17, 1970
Missing: Aug 12, 1984
Age at time missing: 14
Age Now: 34
Sex: Male
Race: White
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Brown
Height: 5'0" (152 cm)
Weight: 110 lbs (50 kg)
Missing From: DES MOINES, IA, United States

Eugene was last seen between 5:30-6 a.m. as he was delivering newspapers. A paper bag was found outside of Des Moines with papers still inside. He has a scar on his right knee and has had a broken right wrist.

ANYONE HAVING INFORMATION SHOULD CONTACT
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children
1-800-843-5678 (1-800-THE-LOST) or
Des Moines Police Department (Iowa) - Missing Persons Unit - 1-515-283-4864 Or Your Local FBI

Link
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewPoster&caseNum=601815&orgPrefix=NCMC&searchLang=en_US

[blueclouds]

One in the same. he is gone.
tybee
Thanks tybee. I don't mind if we all disagree here. We can disagree AND RESPECT eachother's opinion at the same time. Being so frustrated and getting angry doesn't help to get our opinions across. I'm guilty of getting too emotional on WS at times, but I hope I never step over the line of slamming someone's opinions for the sake of stating mine.

Johnny Gosch is an interesting and sad story. There was one other boy that was linked to being the same kidnapper. I cannot remember his name. Also there was one that was never linked. I'll see if I can pull up the particulars on them. Very tragic all around. If these were my children; I could only wish them to be in a better place "heaven"; rather than tortured for their entire lives. Nothing could be worse.

EDITED: As I was contemplating the names; I see Richard has posted the one "linked" child so I will look for the others.

[blueclouds]

You may want to read this link as well. AN OPEN LETTER TO NOREEN:
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=37115

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?noframes;read=37118

SOUNDS like some credible people attempting to help her. I understand the email's in Johnny's site no longer work. Maybe Noreen is starting to realize that she may have been used. Who knows.

HERE'S ANOTHER MISSING IOWA CHILD THAT WASN'T CONNECTED. I'D BET HE IS:

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/34dmia.html

Johnny missing 1982; Eugene 1984; Marc 1986 all from Des Moines; Polk County Iowa. Makes me mad that they LE; have not connected all 3 of these boys. All 3 boys caucasian; brown hair parted on the side. All from same area. Some freak taking boys every 2 years. Wonder if there is another pattern somewhere else in the states; every 2 years with missing young caucasian boys... this guy could have set up shop somewhere else.

[2sisters]

I see a possible link between the 3. Maybe someone can look at surrounding states too. Blueclouds, your links seem to say it all about this Gundersen character. Poor Noreen Gosch, as if she hasn't been through enough. I will say a prayer for her.

[Richard]

HERE'S ANOTHER MISSING IOWA CHILD THAT WASN'T CONNECTED. I'D BET HE IS:

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/34dmia.html

Johnny missing 1982; Eugene 1984; Marc 1986 all from Des Moines; Polk County Iowa. Makes me mad that they LE; have not connected all 3 of these boys. All 3 boys caucasian; brown hair parted on the side. All from same area. Some freak taking boys every 2 years. Wonder if there is another pattern somewhere else in the states; every 2 years with missing young caucasian boys... this guy could have set up shop somewhere else.

An interesting case that does seem to have similar elements to the disappearances of Johnny and Eugene. The Doe Network file only states that he went to visit a friend and was never seen again. Unlike Johnny and Eugene, he was not seen with an older man or men - at least not according to the very short write-up in the Doe file.
It is odd that the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) does NOT have Marc listed in their data base. Anybody know why that is? It would be nice to know more about his case.
If the perpetrator of each of these crimes is the same person, it would seem a bit odd for the spacing to be two whole years apart, unless jail time intervened. Perhaps a careful look at similar victims in other states in and around that time would show a pattern. While some pedophiles will go for only one sex, race, size, and age range, others are not as particular.
It is of note that Johnny and Eugene were taken on paper routes, which are very predictable and regular and in the early hours. An abductor can simply wait his chance anywhere along the route. It is likely that the abductor or abductors watched these boys for a long time before they were taken. Could that have been the case with Marc as well? Did he make a regular trip to his friend's house? If so, a house along that route may have been the residence of the perpetrator.

[messiecake]

One in the same. he is gone.
tybee

AHA!!! How did BC and I know??
:waitasec: Thats some websleuthing!!!!!!!!!!! :)



I don't mind if we all disagree here. We can disagree AND RESPECT eachother's opinion at the same time. Being so frustrated and getting angry doesn't help to get our opinions across. I'm guilty of getting too emotional on WS at times, but I hope I never step over the line of slamming someone's opinions for the sake of stating mine.

I agree and I think we all should try to follow that(I know I do! Ok I at least TRY to! :angel: )


Seriously,I agree Johnny's abduction is very likely connected to other abductions in the area and Im more than happy to pursue that and learn more but I just want to keep the conspiracy"black helicopter" stuff out of it!! :twocents:

[blueclouds]

Richard; there are many cases of kidnapped children that are not in NCMEC databank. I understand the procedure is that LE has to send in the file. I also understand RE: Suzanne Davis/Tonya and a possible link of "Jennifer Klein" - that Jennifer Klein is not in the database of NCMEC as well.

I wish all cases of abduction were listed in there. There is very little information regarding Marc's disappearance all around. I am speculating that his case was not "connected" to the two other boys as not to cause a panic in the community. It was probably dealt with quietly as most child kidnapping cases were back prior to 1990 or so.

Frustrating to say the least.

BTW: Messiecake; I wonder what gave it away hummmm?!!! :rolleyes: I agree that we keep the MIB's out of the conversation. I believe that would be for another more "eclectic" message board. :D

[miles_draken]

I just wanted to follow up with some of the questions in regards to Johnny visiting his mother 14 years after his abduction. I have located court transcripts from Paul Bonacci's case in which he was awarded I believe a Million Dollars from Larry King for sexual abuse ( Franklin Cover-Up Larry King, not CNN personality). In this transcript Noreen talks about the visit and says that she asked to see the boy in questions chest. Her son Johnny had a large birth mark on this chest, and after showing this mark she was convinced it was indeed her son. This thing just keeps going folks, so much information and terrible things that happened to these kids. Johnny still can't come home because his life and his families lives are in great danger. I have made requests for this story to be done in a televised forum. HOpefully something good can come from all these terrible things.

[blueclouds]

I have since heard as well Miles that this Franklin King guy is a professor in Utah. I believe it's the same one. or maybe it was another guy who was part of all this crap. Either way; I cannot believe a college hired some pervert like that.

Something like a birthmark can be faked. There was a case with that Amy woman who went missing on a cruise ship. The "investigator" took the family for over 250,000 grand after supplying a "fake" picture of Amy & her tattoo sitting on a beach. It was a scam.

I don't believe that any of these boys are alive any longer. There are many SAFE PLACES he could go to if he was. Many people would protect him. The fact that this is the one and only time she saw this person leaves me skeptical. I think Johnny is dead; as sad as that is.

Conspiracy's are just that. A conspiracy. VERY few children that are kidnapped remain alive for any amount of time.

Very sad all around.

[Ghostwheel]

Johnny still can't come home because his life and his families lives are in great danger. I have made requests for this story to be done in a televised forum. HOpefully something good can come from all these terrible things.I think what bothers me most is that if Johnny is so scared he cannot come home, and other people have been silenced, why would he risk his whole family's lives by talking to his mother at all? If other people have been silenced, why hasn't his mother been silenced? The scenario make no logical sense if Johnny is in such danger (as he would be if he had been involved with slavers). That would mean the scenario goes like this:
"I am so scared I will be killed if the slavers find out where I am and what I am doing. I'll go visit my mother, who will write all about my story, because she loves me and wants me to be safe and home, and she will be in no danger at all from that."


Or can someone come up with something that actually does make sense that I'm just not seeing here? Why would anyone in fear of his life knowingly endanger his entire family, then leave?

Did his mother think "I'll write all about my meeting Johnny. The slavers who kept him imprisioned and under their control for the past 20 years won't think anything of it, then my whole family will be safe, and Johnny can come home."

[miles_draken]

Johnny came to see his mother in the early morning hours out of the blue with no prior contact and stayed only an hour and a half. He was there primarily to give her names, which she in turn took to the police and claimed to get form an informant, they did nothing. I can understand this story is a bit unbelievable, but I recently read the testimony transcript in the Paul Bonacci civil trial in which he was awarded 1 million from Larry King. If you know about the Franklin Credit Union Scandal then you know what I'm talking about. I'll try to get the link for the transcript, it's worth the read and pertains directly to this case as Noreen testifies. If more of us accept this is going on in our country the harder it is going to be for these sort of perpetrators to continue their evil ways.

[blueclouds]

Did his mother think "I'll write all about my meeting Johnny. The slavers who kept him imprisioned and under their control for the past 20 years won't think anything of it, then my whole family will be safe, and Johnny can come home."

I think Ghost; that his mother SO WANTED TO BELIEVE in anything. THEN when the "conspiracy groupies" got ahold of her, she fell into their trap. I have worked with NUMEROUS parents of missing & murdered children. Trust me; at their lowest point - you can make them believe anything because they so desperately want to believe. It gives them a piece of their child back. I'm so positive that Johnny & the other 2 boys (or more) from Iowa are dead that I'd bet my home & worldly possessions on it.

There are more good guys than bad in the LE, FBI etc that they would know about a slave group out there.

UHHHGGGGGG very frustrating and very sad. Just wish his body was found so this can be put to rest.

[Ghostwheel]

I'll try to get the link for the transcript, it's worth the read and pertains directly to this case as Noreen testifies.I would like to read that. Thank you for the effort.

[emma l]

Either senario- whether Johnny is alive or not is pretty horrific, under the circumstances............. I would be interested to read the transcript though.

What baffles me about the whole thing is the conviction of Johnnys mother. Whatever happened, she REALLY BELIEVES she saw her son after all that time and that he is in some kind of trouble. She has written books about it, appeared on endless talkshows, given seminars and testified under oath in court. It is such a lot of effort for something that is untrue, yet it sounds so far-fetched.

I don't know what to think............

[miles_draken]

So many opinions about this case. After reading all I have I'm firmly convinced that Johnny is alive, it just seems the most plausible. There is simply too much evidence I believe, to discount the story Noreen is telling. She has spent the better part of 22 years with this case full time, hiring private investigators, and getting help from many others. It is my opinion, my very strong opinion, that Johnny, atleast in 1997, was still alive. Now, seven years later, I don't know. I remember hearing her say that she gets a phone call from him every Mothers Day, but as far as I know that is the only on going contact. Here is the court transcript, hopefully this will help some of you in your own opinion on this case.

http://www.ritualabuse.net/franklin.htm

[greenray]

I found this forum when I did a google search on Eugene Martin. 17 years ago I was in a restaurant in an affluent neighborhood of Chicago. As I was leaving I noticed a balled up dollar bill on a nearby table. The table hadn't been cleared yet and I thought someone might think that's garbage and throw it out. I picked it up to give it directly to the waiter. As I walked to the front of the restaurant I uncrumpled the bill and saw written on it "I'm alive Eugene Martin." I thought it was so strange that I kept the bill and a couple of days later I thought to call the National Center for Missing Children. I was shocked when they told me that he was an abducted child. I was told that he was 13 when he was kidnapped and would now be 17. I asked if they wanted me to send them the bill and I was told that I could photocopy it and send it in if I wanted. The person I talked to didn't convey any sense of urgency or even much interest in it.

A few days ago I suddenly wondered if he had ever been found. I have no idea why it occurred to me after all these years. I went to the NCMEC website and saw that he has never been found. For the first time, I read the story about his abduction. Somehow, finding out his story made it seem so much more real and it brought me to tears. I began to wonder if anyone had ever told his family about the message I had found so that they would at least know that he was still alive at that time.

I felt kind of silly but I called NCMEC and asked if there was any record of it and I was told there wasn't. She suggested that I contact the Des Moines police if I wanted any more information. I didn't do it as it seems like such a small piece of information from so long ago.

Anyway, I just thought I'd add that information here. I'm not sure exactly what the purpose of this website is, but people here at least seem interested. I felt so upset that I had apparently been sitting right near Eugene and then found his note and that there was no happy ending.

[Richard]

That is an intriguing story about finding the dollar bill. I wonder if Eugene himself had actually sat in that restaurant, or if the dollar bill had been passed around for a while. It does not surprise me too much to hear that someone said that no record of your call exists. It might actually be in their files, but buried behind other tips and papers. Some old cases have boxes and boxes of papers, notes, tips, etc. Others are probably pretty bare.
Do you still have the bill? I wonder if anyone could do any kind of hand writing analysis on it.
As you have pointed out, a nice thing about this forum, and other websites like it is that these cases are kept alive and people are kept aware of them.

[greenray]

Hi Richard,

At the time, I had the distinct impression that Eugene Martin had actually been in the restaurant because the dollar bill was crumpled up in such a strange way. It was in a very compact ball shape and, after I read what was written on it, I thought that must be why it was crumpled up like that. The person wanted it to be noticed and not just put back into circulation. I certainly noticed it and I've never given any thought to tips left on restaurant tables before or since.

I was much younger then and when I was told that he was 17 I thought well couldn't he get away? Now I realize that an abductor can have enormous power over a victim of any age.

I don't have the actual dollar bill any more. A friend at the time took it to a psychic and then threw it out. I may still have a photocopy of it. I don't know who I'd even give it to.

[amandab]

I don't have the actual dollar bill any more. A friend at the time took it to a psychic and then threw it out. I may still have a photocopy of it. I don't know who I'd even give it to.

Personally, I'd give it to the Des Moines police.....every little bit counts, ya know?

[cppweb]

The reason for the story "Johnny came home one night" was mearly financially motivated. Why? John Decamp and Paul Bonacci.

Mr. Bonacci filed a multi million dollar lawsuit against Larry King and some others, they needed a story that would be "absolutely fantastic" to win the suit. They got their story and guess what? Mr. Bonacci won his case along with a million dollar judgement.



The facts are as follows:



1. Paul Bonacci (The one who says he helped kidnap Johnny) is a pedophile himself. While serving time in prison in Nebraska for molesting a boy, he came up with this story about Johnny. There are numerous affidavits from prison authorities that Mr. Bonacci researched the events and got to know the Gosch family from print. He in essence fell in love with Johnny and wanted to be part of the story which in a sense makes him part f the family. Psychosis speaking of course.



2. A P.I. by the name of Roy Stephens miraculously comes across the Bonacci story and informs the Gosch family. Noreen visits him in prison with Stephens and is taken in by this story. Now keep in mind there is still a reward out for this kid. Stephens is financially motivated here to make something stick so he can get the big bucks. So he more or less feeds Paul the information to tell the Gosch's.



3. As the stories come out of this unbelievable story from Omaha a lawyer comes into the picture, John Decamp. Again what I call a Glory Seeker becomes Mr. Bonacci's attorney. Mr. Decamp is also backed by a right wing religious group called the Nebraska Leadership council, headed by Earl Weaver, the potato chip king. (Lots of money)



4. America's Most Wanted: Actually hired a ex-fbi profiler to get into the case, called in the show "Jimmy" this person gains deep access into the families and groups involved. Spends like 6 months talking and interviewing everyone involved.



5. AMW Gets the 86 Notice: After the initial couple of shows with the investigator under cover, AMW gets a notice from the FBO to stop airing the information about the case, why? Because it is now a FBI fraud case with the Securities Exchange Commission and the IRS.



6. The future: This has been a 12 year ongoing case; started in 1992 and will be closed in a short time to come. The Feds are just trying to align all their ducks in a row and do know the whereabouts of the Gosch child. You will see a complete opposite result as what has been told so far. Bonacci and Decamp as well as Noreen Gosch are in some deep water here along with all the others involved in the Post Events since the kidnapping.



7. Is Johnny alive? That is hard to say, in my mind probably not and was probably killed a day or two after the kidnapping. One thing is for sure he is still on this planet. Nothing leaves the earth.



I personally think someone in that family knows and is responsible for the incident. I also think that is what is going to come out when the indictments are un-sealed sometime in the future by the US Attorneys office.

[messiecake]

Thank you for that post! Finally a theory that makes sense(but of course Ill say that because it goes along with what Ive been saying from the getgo-Johnny was kidnapped and unfortunately some scuzzy people are out for personal gain and are exploiting him and his family-period.)Please keep us posted on this if you can.Id like to see this resolved so this nonsense can stop.

Take off your tinfoil hats people of earth! Another conspriacy has been debunked!
:p

[lisag]

I too agree that your theory is very interesting and quite possible.

I never believed for a minute that Johnny came after all these years but is still in hiding...

I too believe that Johnny died long ago.

It's sad to think htat his family may have something to do with it - could that be her reason for saying he came to her.... ???

[Capt.]

Hello all,
This is my first post to WS. I came across this subject and felt I had to chime in. The Decamp perp profile is the only profile I am concerned with. The complete story hits close to home as I have lived and worked this area of the country for several years.

Next, let me say that I don't have any new information on Johnny, I don't know who took him and I don't know if he is alive. Yet I believe the Decamp story.

Searching for a metaphore, this story is a BIG piece of meat and is best digested by cutting up into smaller portions.

I am cautious to accept information that needs a line ahead of it saying that it is fact, especially when some of the info refers to the future.

I would say it is imposible that Paul came up with this on his own for money reasons. A person by the name of Lisa Washington first came up with this story in 1985 and was told to a social worker/writen down. It was not believed at the time. This predates Paul's bringing it out and Lisa was not in prison with Paul. Her story included her sister Tracy while being held by a foster home in the Nebraska area. A fantastic story doesn't make it more believable, but just the opposite. I feel that it is important to note that a court judgement was made in favor of Paul and another person, so it was examined in court. Kathleen Sorenson was the original complainant in the Franklin case.
I will add that all the credit card slips for payment of sex was sealed by the judge in Kings case.(lets let all the offenders go free???)

There was 80 children that came forward that was involved with the skandal.
Four made statements with two recanting, later the reason for this was given as a lie or die situation. Lisa W. nor her sister was a part of this group. It is also interesting to note of the 80 children, only the two that held to their story, ended up in jail sending a warning to any others that might want to talk.

It is interesting that John Decamp was also a Republican senator exposing part of the Republican party. I don't find it unusual for a faith based group to support a Rep senator, it seems like more the norm. What is interesting is that this was not a partisan attack. If John was interested in furthering himself he sure wouldn't attack the party he was a member of. A person that follows John's history would find a person that is fairly sqweeky clean. A 10% lawyers fee is not that much and John really doesn't need it. How many senators would you say has a house worth one million? Many!

The many questions of why Paul doesn't do this or why Johnny doesn't do this, to me is meaningless. Brainwashing isn't a very good term for this situation, it might apply better to Patty Hearst, but not Paul, Johnny, or the many other children that was involved. It would be good for anybody to gain depth on this by talking with psychotherapists and deprogrammers on what happens to the developing mind when submitted to torture. Issues of fragmentation and compartimentalism will certainly come up. An organisation in Iowa estimates 3 million people in the U.S. has been exposed to extreme torture. This is based upon the studies of a social scientist, researcher, and deprogrammer. You might get more info by searching on "lynnsart.net".

Loreen devulged Johnny's visit to her, because this was asked of her in court. She certainly had the background to know her own son, including the many different activities they shared. It was through Loreen's work that we have a immediate response from LE in abductions. Iowa was the first and seven more states in the next year.

It is also interesting how many have lost their life over this story.
Owens bro
Boners bro Shawn
Troy Boner
Danny King
Kathleen Sorenson(original complainant in Franklin case)
Gary Caradori and son(investigator for Nebraska senate)
Sheriff at Caradori crash site in Ill.

In cutting up this piece of meat, Mk-Ultra comes up. The book "BlueBird" is excellent on the topic, as well as the CIA's own declassified papers.

The Washington Post paper scan is available on the net with the story of the midnight tours by call boys.

In closing I will add (in the past) that I know several cult deprogrammers and a few survivours of cults in the area of question. With that infomation(much which I am not able to reveal) I find the info by Decamp very believable.

I align myself with Miles and would very much desire more contact with Blaster.

BLASTER?????


Capt.


"Your silence will not protect you"-Audre Lorde

[cppweb]

Then if you look at it more.....Decamp's name shows up all over the place as well as the Nebraska Leadership Council.

Trust me the whold thing is a scam......I know I was there....

[Capt.]

Then if you look at it more.....Decamp's name shows up all over the place as well as the Nebraska Leadership Council.

Trust me the whold thing is a scam......I know I was there....
As I indicated before I don't think that is unusual at all. We have no reason to trust each other. Many people were there period. It would be interesting to know in what capacity you were there.
May I suggest you follow your own direction on this and I will mine, which mine is to protect other survivors, not in finding Johnny. I can not help that some of my leads connect to Omaha.


Based on info from the missing persons website, statistics favor Johnny being alive.

I will venture a guess that he alive, but is not in hiding, at least not from the perps. I further believe he is being used as an example to others to show the level of control. Just a guess.

[messiecake]

Sorry but statistics DO NOT favor Johnny being alive.

[Capt.]

I'll go back and look under overt sadism again, but it could be I read it wrong. This part was only a guess anyway.

[Capt.]

My reference from the site.

How many missing children are found deceased? What hours are most critical when trying to locate a missing child?
Answer: According to a 1997 study by the State of Washington’s Office of the Attorney General “the murder of a child who is abducted ... is a rare event. There are estimated to be about 100 such incidents in the United States each year, less than one-half of one percent of the murders committed”; however, “74 percent of abducted children who are murdered are dead within three hours of the abduction.”

[2sisters]

If this whole fantastic story is tru then why don't the kids involved step forward. I've heard they are scared and this group is dangerous, but, there a million and 1 people who would be willing to protect and back these kids up were this story true. If Johnny were being monitored and was fearful for his and his families life then why in the world did he show up at his mom's front door? Why risk her life if he undoubtedly would be followed there? Now the child pornographers know where she lives. SHe kept it quiet for 2 years, then tells that he came home that night and about the pornography ring. If all this is true she shouldv'e been killed years ago to keep her quiet, right? Why hasn't she been silenced in some way? I don't know if he is alive or not, I hope he is, but nobody can't be expected to belive that the government and LE are involved in a child pornography ring.

[Capt.]

Please see the other thread I am active on for Jacob. I have provided a link that may help.

[2sisters]

I already have and no offense, it doesn't help.

[Capt.]

If this whole fantastic story is tru then why don't the kids involved step forward. I've heard they are scared and this group is dangerous, but, there a million and 1 people who would be willing to protect and back these kids up were this story true. If Johnny were being monitored and was fearful for his and his families life then why in the world did he show up at his mom's front door? Why risk her life if he undoubtedly would be followed there? Now the child pornographers know where she lives. SHe kept it quiet for 2 years, then tells that he came home that night and about the pornography ring. If all this is true she shouldv'e been killed years ago to keep her quiet, right? Why hasn't she been silenced in some way? I don't know if he is alive or not, I hope he is, but nobody can't be expected to belive that the government and LE are involved in a child pornography ring.I realized my link may not answer all your questions and I may not be able to either. According to the story her husband was also in on it so they knew where she lived. She is alive (I'm guessing) because she does not present a risk to them. Like you asked for before, she has no proof so what risk does she present. I agree it is very hard to believe, but declassified documents exist of the governments envolvement. I can't explain why the documents exist if what they outline doesn't. May I add that during my military service people in the CIA were putting drugs in the body bags.

As to why Johnny did this and didn't do that, to me is not material, with the understanding of what the conditions did to his mental development. It is very likely that he is now a pedophile also.

My only connection with any of this is my experiences in cult deprogramming.
I have no proof only my experiences which I can't deny.


p.S. your a fast reader!

[2sisters]

I know that cults exist and I am not an expert in deprogramming, I know that there are deprogrammers or whatever you would call them and I know what they do. I just don't think it is the case here. It just doesn't add up. Sorry.

[Capt.]

that's ok. I only believe that Decamps story is plausable based on my own experience of cult behavior/trauma/programming.

The story is a big one and hard to swallow. There was a lot going on. I have to break it up to make sense of it. Cppweb's posting leaves a lot unanswered for me. There seems to be support from other areas of info for Decamps story.

I also have a copy of the Decamp video that was suppose to be aired on Discovery Channel, but was pulled.

A search on the word "xeper" on the web will get you some of the perp sites.

[Capt.]

I'm out of here, until I see Blasters post or something that goes along with Decamps profile. I'm not going to waste time defending what I support. I'll respond if I see something relevent.

Peace, good luck
Capt.

[messiecake]

I'm out of here, until I see Blasters post or something that goes along with Decamps profile. I'm not going to waste time defending what I support. I'll respond if I see something relevent.

Peace, good luck
Capt.

Blaster is banned from here because-surprise!-he's a scam artist who claims to be an abducted child ,now grown,who was abducted by one of your crazy cults!

Backing him up does nothing for your credibility!!!!!!!!

[Capt.]

Blaster is banned from here because-surprise!-he's a scam artist who claims to be an abducted child ,now grown,who was abducted by one of your crazy cults!

Backing him up does nothing for your credibility!!!!!!!!I am not seeking credibility with you. Cults exist. Mind control exists. Sometimes they are one and the same.

Do some study on this, other than the NE that you have indicated you read in Walmart.

Yes they are crazy cults, go to xeper.org for an example.

You are not able to explain why declassified documents refer to MK projects.

You have absolutly no background in this area.

You have repeatedly used "Coast to Coast, words such a wacko, and UFO's to attemp to discredit and control threads on this forum. I never said anything about UFO's, you did. I did not bring up Coast to Coast, you did.

Rather than look at the facts you choose to try to "win" threads by terms to trigger by exageration. You are found out.

You can not prove a negative.
It is like this, I can not prove that you are not a moron, but you may be able to prove that you are.

The medical community accepts mpd/did, mind control, and cults, because they have to deal with it. They are the ones that treat missing persons when they are found alive. Get over your fear of the truth.

Rather than somebody that is truly concerned with the health of the missing, you are a person obsessed with crime in the news.

You have not responded to me after I provided references from MCNEC on statistics that support Johnny being alive. After you said they didn't. Could be your too proud to admit your wrong.

May I say again,

Explain how declassified documents exist on mind control. They are available from the national archives.


It is amazing the power you wield, being able to cast people from the list because they don't believe as you do. Let me test your great powers, get me kicked of the list because I support the scenero you provided on Blaster. Not that I support Blaster, but I know the scenero is valid.

Now, go pet your bull(shiit)dog.

P.S. I don't see how anybody can claim any compassion for the missing and discredit somebody that claims they have been in a like situation as a scam artist. Who is scamming who here?

[mom-a-licious]

I've been reading some posts about far-reaching, international conspiracies among some very powerful people and organizations devoted to child slavery, and some sort of "Monarch" project involving brainwashing and mind control.

Of course I do know that kids are abducted, and sexually abused, and they are threatened, etc, and that sometimes they may even be sold.

My question is this: If such a vast, powerful, moneyed and politically strong group of people are running such a network, why in the world would an organization such as this need to kidnap any paper-boys, and why would they have to use a common street criminal to do so?

Any organization such as the one being referred to would have access to any number of kids, from any number of sources. They could have a vast "stable" of people giving birth to kids, which in just a few short years they would be able to have access to for whatever reason they wanted. Not to mention all the people you read about from time to time who are actually trying to sell their kids for drugs, or all the runaways on the street who would go with someone like this for the promise of drugs or money or just a place to stay.

Many sources, yet they would kidnap someone off the street?

This sounds like a horrible scenario, but it is certainly no more far-fetched and actually more easy and less risky for such a powerful, rich group of people to use some of the tactics noted above.

I suppose one might argue that they want someone who has just led a "normal" life, so they can practice their mind-control techniques; etc.

Most people though who want an "object" to gratify their unusual desires want just that, though---an "object"; as long as it looks and maybe talks the part, they don't care if it was plucked from suburbia then "brainwashed" first before it comes to them.

And, if the need to mind-control was so necessary, these same all-powerful people could raise a kid to a certain age in a very "normal" manner, then do all the brainwashing they wanted starting at a certain age. Also, as the kids would have been born and raised in the world of the "cult", they wouldn't have any outside families or pasts to go back to, to tell them any stories of what was going on inside the organization.

SO...I really wonder why any such powerful group would want or need to go through all the random selection, kidnapping and brainwashing to get what they want, when if they are so rich and connected they could set up a process that would get them what they want without all the trouble.

Makes the whole child-abduction/far-reaching conspiracy thing seem fairly far-fetched to me.

[Capt.]

My guess to your question. I believe in 20 yrs there as been a lot of change within the sub culture we are talking about. I believe they do have a large supply of bodies now, thou they would be open to easy pickings. Back when Johnny was taken, the supply was not as plentyful. Nowdays most are taken from their own ranks. Such has been the case a person I know of, who had been reabducted twice after trying to leave the group. Why use a street criminal? Because of lower risk.

The subculture has many resources yes, but not always located where they want them.

Normal life ain't it. Ages are. Those that have had incest at an early age have a higher level of disassociation. It is easier to fragment these subjects. The age that a child learns primary colors is important. If they are not able to disassociate they really don't have much of a use except to introduce trauma to their attending members. They use animals in the same way.

If a person wants an "object" for their desires they have more problems than just that. Their desires are violent, their sex is violent, they act out in violence.

Desires has that connotation of sex and I don' believe that is highest purpose. Like a drug mule or to do something without being able to trace it back. Someone to control. I really don't like the term brainwashed as it is something I reserve for the spritual cults, say like Moonies or Patty Hearst(political group). The level of control I am talking about comes from introducing trauma for long periods at the edge. This is an effort to create alters and program those alters from the most most intense fear immaginable. The mafia was able to control by fear, but it is still not as intense as what I am referring to.

In some cases I understand the MC starts at birth as a premmie. The more trauma a person can endure the stronger they are. Only the strong last. True there are those that know nothing else but the cult life and others that didn't last that long.

"SO...I really wonder why any such powerful group would want or need to go through all the random selection, kidnapping and brainwashing to get what they want, when if they are so rich and connected they could set up a process that would get them what they want without all the trouble."

I really don't believe cold kidnapping is practiced as much as in the past for some of the reasons you have given. The programming part still exists so that they can control by fear and the "process".

I agree, it is the most far-fetched disturbing thing I have ever heard. I say that everyday I look at someone that was exposed to it.


May I add some government info: The study of the Tuskagee airmen with untreated syphilis went on for 40 years. After 30yrs a medical report was published in the Journal for Medicin. After 10 more years it was halted because an investigative journalist wrote about it and then people decided to be upset about it.

Senator Kennedy held a closed door investigation on the declassified papers that were found with MK content. This was in the mid 70's. The transcript is available online.

Clinton started an investigative commite to investigate reported radiation tests on U.S. citizens. 52 people gave testimony of the radiation test which also included MK. This is available online. It was in 1995 that Clinton felt it was needed to pass a presidential order banning experimentation on U.S. citizens in light of the investigation. This is found online in his new presidential library.


I imagine messie will attack this post also. I don't know of any cold cult abductions that have taken place, I only think it is very plausable in Johnnys case and others in the same local 3 hour radius.

[cppweb]

--Darn I hate Vbulletin Editors--

O.K. I have read all the threads from my original post. I must say I find it hard to believe that actual people actually believe the Noreen/Decamp/NLC story.

Fraklin Coverup - Yes it did happen, the missing 39 million was in fact traced and accounted for. Mr. King had a lavish lifestyle, a gambling problem and was a drug/alcohol addict. That spells trouble for anyone who is in charge of a financial institution. It's funny that all those "thousands of photos" that Rusty Nelson has in his posession have never been seen.

Gary Caradori - His plane crash was a result of engine trouble and a well known flaw in the model of aircraft he had. It is unfortunate that his plane was not outfitted with the replacement part. Read the FAA accident report. As far as the "military vehicles" picking up his plane is pure and utter crap. I have talked to the neighboring farmers and towns folk, neither of them report "military" personel or equipment. I have even seen local photos of the cleanup from local media outlets and citizens.


Leonard John Gosch - Johnny's father. I have talked to the close neighbors that lived in the same culdasact as the gosch's. They all have stated that Mr. Gosch was a strange character and they do not trust him. It is also a known fact that the Gosch's were going through marital problems at the time and before the abduction. Doesn't mean alot but has some clues here.


The Johnny Funds - I have researched and added up all the donations that the Gosch's have recieved since the day after to today's date. The total donation $ is around 1.9 million dollars. That's a bunch of cash which can spell motive. Where did all the money go? That is what the US Attorneys office in Des Moines wants to know also. Could this be spelling out another entirely different scam? Could of the whole thing be faked for monatary gain?


Eugene Martin - Clearly a runaway from a abusive family. Used the Gosch saga as cover.


John Decamp - Got tons of cash for his political runs for office. Where exactly did all that money come from. I think he is as sinister as the made up stories about the other business peoples in Omaha. Do your homework people and dont make stories up unless you see the facts and figures. Research is the only true option in solving cold cases.

So you see really this thing had gotten way out of hand and control, now both sideas are blaming eachother with wild accusations and rumors of which all have no merit.

Logic only tells us if the Gosch kid was kidnapped by a pedophile he is most certainly deceased. As per 99% all other sexually motivated abductions.

Do the homework and you will see the culprit(s)

[2sisters]

I hate to ask this question, but I saw the refrences to the Goschs' and I don't want to accuse them of anything BUT do they belive this story or are they involved in the alleged scam? I hate to think that a family would profit off of their missing child but its possible I guess. It is a sad story no matter how it happened.

[cppweb]

2sisters all I can tell you is if you take the "hollywood" feel out of this case you can come down to reality and it all makes sense. I personally believe that someone in the Gosch family knows. Yes I think that someone in the immediate family is involved.

The Federal Gov wouldn't have a 12 year long case if they didn't believe that something is a miss here.

We will all find out in a few months as the case is finally coming to an end. I have been told indictments will be un sealed and arrests will be made.

[cppweb]

Oh yeah another thing......if Johnny was kidnapped into a pedophile ring, surely there would be pictoral evidence floating around the web. So far there is nothing that has showed up to this point.

Why I know all this? I am a law enforcement liaison that writes studies on famous and old cases for educational purposes. This case has came into my desk about 13 years ago as per the AMW shows. I was there for all the segment filmings as a advisor adn I have met all the parties involved including Rusty Nelson.

Again I must say that the show was cancelled due to the fact the FBI and SEC started an investigation into the financial status of the not for profit groups and family financials.

I have written a book about the whole case starting weeks before the abduction to present day. It is a complete detailed date by date refrence.

Note: Paul Bonacci has indicated that he was also involved in the Wetterling case, well he stuck his foot in his mouth on that one because MN DCI knows who the perp is but do not have the evidence to make an arrest. So by Mr. Bonacci making those statement just shows you he is full of crap and is a mixed up nut case as well as a pedophile (Book explains his positions)

It is completely sad and is a travisty of peoples faith and true hearted actions all for nothing. There are going to be many people ticked off once the truth is told.

[miles_draken]

Well, if all this truth is out there then why isn't somebody spilling the beans! Noreen Gosch even admitted in an interview that she believes her husband was involved in the whole thing. A lot of bad seeds roll out when we tip over the apple cart folks, there is the possibility a lot of this is true, and some very powerful people are involved. People involved around this case have been killed or silenced in some other way, facts are facts. When you illiminate the impossible, whatever is left, no matter how improbable, is the answer. I hope the truth does come out and we find out what really happened. Eugene Martin by the way is considered to be kidnapped by the same people who took Johnny.

[cppweb]

Miles, just about 2/12 months ago there was a team of law enforcement agents with Iowa DCI, FBI and West DesMoines PD and the Polk County Sheriff's dept. digging up around the area where John Gosch had his hobby farm northwest of Des Moines. John used to sell seed and used this plot to do his seed/planting tests and store all his personal stuff including a Korean war era jeep. Well in that jeep under the passenger seat (There is a compartment) was a bunch of tapes, tapes that were telephone recordings of Noreen for a period of three months after the AMW story. Now that is strange. Those tapes are now in the hands of the Iowa DCI for review.

This is what I think went down.

Leonard and Noreen were having marital problems. With Leonard's psychotic history I think he hatched a scheme to have his kid taken by an associate in order to make his marriage stronger. You see Johnny was a momma's boy all the way and Leonard was jealous of that. I think the original scheme was to have Johnny go missing and then the father would find him thus making the marriage better.

But it got all out of hand and he paid his associate to "take out the kid" for fear of being found out. Financial records show $5000.00 taken out of his checking account 2 days after the kidnapping. Sept. 07 1982. He has stated in interviews by law enforcement that he used the money to get supplies to help find his son. But no proof of any materials was ever found.

Phone records do indicate a phone call to the Gosch residence at 3:27am Sunday morning lasting 32 seconds and coming from the Souix City exchange. They dont have the number only the area code due to phone technologies at that time.

As far as the rest, it's all made up by a bunch of right wing christian fundamentalists that were seeking a political seat and this is where John Decamp comes in along with the Nebraska Leadership Confrence and many others. Hell at one tie everybody and their brother cashed in on this case.

There are no satanist/pedophile/secret goverment/shadow government groups responsible, there is no connection to the New World Order and Mind Control. It just is not feasible. Only in Hollywood my friend.

[blueclouds]

There are no satanist/pedophile/secret goverment/shadow government groups responsible, there is no connection to the New World Order and Mind Control. It just is not feasible. Only in Hollywood my friend.


That's right, a Hollywood story exactly. Do you think the dad set up someone to "fake" an appearance by Johnny years later or do you think Noreen knows and just made stuff up to sell her book?

[cppweb]

Noreen came up with that story for Paul Bonacci and John Decamp in order to get that Million dollar judgement. She saw $$ in her eyes because she is basically broke. She thought she would make tons of cash off her book, but it basically flopped and sold only about 2000 copies. Didn't even make enough money to cover the publishing fees.

[cppweb]

http://www.tymezones.com/forum/index.php?

[TisHerself]

So what about the other paper boy who went missing 2 years later? Do you think Leonard had something to do with that?

[miles_draken]

I've never heard any of the evidence against his father in this case, only the suspicion that he was somehow involved. Could you tell me where you found this at, I would love to read about it. I'm certainly open to other theories about what happened to Johnny, I just feel that there is reason to believe Noreens story at this time, partly because nothing else has come up, no body has been found, and she insists Johnny himself gave the info to her. I would love to read about this development, I can't seem to find any info on it. THanks!

[miles_draken]

Hasn't been any activity on this thread for awhile and I still haven't gotten an answer about where the info on Johnny's father came from. Any help would be appreciated! They found BTK, they can find out what happened to a paper boy!

[HollywoodBound]

I was wondering if anyone knows whether or not the mother had to submit to a lie detector test and police questioning after she made the statements about her son coming to visit her?
-Linda

[keithjfro]

I remember reading in the Rocky Mountain News in either 1983 or 1984 that a woman in Chicago was approached by Johnny and he said "Please lady, help me" before two men grabbed him and threw him in a truck and took off.

Also check out this latest bizarre twist.......

Ex-FBI Gunderson: Gannon is Gosch

http://rense.com/general63/th_gannonflip7.jpghttp://rense.com/general63/th_gannonflip1.jpgTed Gunderson, formerly the FBI Special Agent in Charge of the Los Angles office, and for more than 25 years a private investigator, appeared on the "Mysteries of the Mind" radio program March 8 where he confirmed that he has "a credible, reliable source" that says "Jeff Gannon" is indeed kidnapped paperboy Johnny Gosch.

Gunderson claimed that "Gannon" has scar on right cheek; and Noreen Gosch has looked at the mark on "Gannon" in photographs and said it was the same as that as on her son.

Gunderson agrees with analysis on the Internet that a birthmark (Gosch's is said to be in the "shape of South America") looks to have been removed from Gannon's chest.

Gunderson said, "I think Jeff Gannon is Johnny Gosch, and I think he planned this to get even with them for screwing up his life from age 12 on." Gunderson suspects Gannon's planned book, as reported by the Russian press, "will be truthful and he will expose these people."

Later in the program, host Alex Merklinger, a long time correspondent of Mrs. Gosch, received an email from Noreen Gosch wherein she said that "Jeff Gannon" is living in the Dupont Circle area of Washington, DC and is not in hiding. She asked Gunderson's opinion of "Gannon"'s safety.

Here's the audio; Gunderson calls in about 29:40 into the program:
http://www.total411.info/audio.gif(Windows Media Player) (http://interface.audiovideoweb.com/lnk/ca25win25003/archives_2004/MOM20050308.wma/play.asx) | Listen here via: MP3 Stream (http://www.freedomandtrust.com/mp3_metafiles/march_05/mar_08_05.m3u) | Listen here via: MP3 Download (http://interface.audiovideoweb.com/lnk/ca25web26000/archives_2005/MOM20050308.mp3/play)

[atx]

Here is a very revealing interview with John DeCamp:


http://www.sf.indymedia.org/uploads/decamp4.mp3 (http://www.sf.indymedia.org/uploads/decamp4.mp3)

I am a believer in the Franklin scandal. Here are some of the more convincing points:

-In his book “The Franklin Cover-Up” John DeCamp names several powerful people (politicians, media figures, etc.) as being involved with the child prostitution ring. Despite these people being “accused” of such crimes, not one of these people has tried to take him to court for slander in order to clear their names.

-Way too many people (at least 15) that were close to this case died in mysterious circumstances.

-Perhaps the most convincing evidence was given in the testimony of the children. They described being flown to these orgies to service politicians and businessmen. That claim alone is not necessarily solid evidence, however what they described is the key element. Paul Bonacci claims to have been flown to Dallas for the 1984 Republican Convention and he described in detail the ranch where the party took place (DeCamp later confirmed the info). In addition to that Bonacci described to a “T” being taken to what we now know to be Bohemian Grove (DeCamp didn’t even know what Bohemian Grove was until after he wrote the book). You have to ask yourself how can these orphans from Nebraska make up stories that included such accurate details of places and events so far away?

For those of you who are not familiar with Bohemian Grove I would recommend you check out this link:

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/grove.asp (http://www.apfn.org/apfn/grove.asp)

Also a reporter named Alex Jones actually snuck into Bohemian Grove and captured the “Cremation of Care” ceremony of his video “Dark Secrets Inside Bohemian Grove”. This can be downloaded for free here:

http://www.technoslavery.com/documentary/ (http://www.technoslavery.com/documentary/)

[atx]

3. As the stories come out of this unbelievable story from Omaha a lawyer comes into the picture, John Decamp. Again what I call a Glory Seeker becomes Mr. Bonacci's attorney. Mr. Decamp is also backed by a right wing religious group called the Nebraska Leadership council, headed by Earl Weaver, the potato chip king. (Lots of money)
John DeCamp was originally sent in to debunk the whole thing, however as he did his research he became convinced that the allegations were in fact true. Per his own words in an interview he did:


JD:Stories started floating out as always happens when some incident like that occurs and some of the stories involved missing money that was used for this and that but some of those stories were even strange. They were coming from kids all over. Young kids - 16, 14, 13 - kids telling about how they had been on Larry's private jet to this party or that party. Or that they had been at the Republican National Convention here or they had been at this political event in Washington and the stories had to do with they were there and were used as drug couriers. You know 13, 14-year old kids back then going through the airport could get through without anyone asking twice about anything. They pack them full of cocaine or whatever on little packs they'd carry on their bodies, between their legs, etc, etc. - young boys, young girls. And the kids also were telling these stranger tales that seemed bizarre at the time: that they had had sex or were involved in sex with this or that famous politician or businessman or whatever.

And I was one of the first ones who stood up and said this has got to be the most hilarious, ridiculous story I've ever heard. First of all, I knew Larry King. What the heck! I was head of banking at the time he was when he was doing his banking stuff, the head of the senate banking committee here in Nebraska. So I said, “It's absurd.” Well the stories started cropping up more and more and I said something else and I said look if I believe even one of these crazy stories I'd be the first one to stand up and demand that something be done. Then I got a letter from a kid named Paul Bonacci who was in a jail in Omaha. And he said, “Look, if you come and talk to me, I can show you that these aren’t just fake tales.”

AJ: Now later, you took his diary that went back like 5 years and had ink experts and forensics experts look at it. He had written all this stuff down.

JD: Yeah, that was the strange thing about this kid. I wish I had been able to do that throughout life but anyway when he was a little boy, he was about 18 when I had meet him in jail, 17 or 18. And as a young kid his uncle or grandfather or somebody had taught him religiously to keep a diary where you mark things down everyday. Well, he did it and he did it in detail. So when I went and visited with him and he told me these strange tales and then you had the head of psychiatry from one of the major medical institutions in the state say, "Hey, this kid he ain't crazy. He's a multiple personality and he's probably telling the truth because multiples don't need to lie. They just switch personalities.”

Anyway, so to make a long, long bizarre story short. I found out that he was in jail because he had been one of those intimately involved in all this, and he had to be shut up real quick. I’m making that as a conclusion now – at the time I didn’t realize that. But and so they locked him up and charged him with touching another boy on the outside of his pants, a cousin or something.

AJ: Senator, talk right into your telephone for me.

JD: Anyway, they have him there and I finally agreed I would represent him and that led to a long, long tale that's got me deeply involved in researching and investigating the whole collapse of that credit union and the personalities involved. Ultimately, on the advice of my best friend, closest friend, godfather, whatever, eventually writing a book because he told me that’s what I should probably do to protect myself. And that man was a man named Bill Colby. About the time that I started writing the next book, Bill, as you know was head of the CIA and ended up floating dead in a pond somewhere. But I won't get into that right now. Anyway, so I wrote the book and as I got at the very beginning of this story and working on it, one of the things that I did do was as I say, as you say, obtain the diaries of this young boy to see just what he did say and then I had them checked.

AJ: And it wasn't just that. I mean they've got…

JD: Forensic experts and the forensics were because somebody said he could have just made this all up later. He could have made this up later. And so I wanted to make sure that this wasn't done. So we had forensic examiners said that this ink was done at a certain time and this could of only been done and on and on. Anyway, to get to the heart of the discussion…

AJ: One more point, Senator John Decamp, because I've actually seen the Discovery Channel documentary that never aired and we actually played it here locally in Austin. I was sent a copy of it. They found hundreds of videotapes in King's office. The police saw it and freaked out, hid it and never released it and for all those other children, people actually got convicted of this stuff.

JD: Oh, yeah.

AJ: I want people to understand. This all happened folks.

JD: This isn't a fantasy. I ended up winning a million dollars on behalf of, against awful, awful, awful overwhelming odds, including the Omaha World Herald newspaper that attacked me so viciously because one of the key individuals that I got locked up in prison was their editor - one of their editors - another individual. But anyway…

AJ: People are going to prison for this… [Cross-talk]

JD: Jack got released from prison here about what 8 or 10 months ago.

AJ: Hold on. And you were actually just out of the senate. You were hired to go whitewash the operation because you know this is ridiculous.

JD: That's what I was hired for. Yeah, yeah. But I did the opposite.

[blueclouds]

sighhhhhhhhhhhhh ATX there is nothing to this at all. Conspiracy theories once more. Gosch is not Gannon.... CLEARLY not a facial match at all.... and everything else that's posted.....

PLEASE STEVE/BOYEXPLOITED; give it a rest. No one wants to listen to this.

EDITED TO ADD: EVEN NOREEN GOSCH REFUSES TO CONFIRM OR DENY THAT THIS MIGHT BE JOHNNY.

WELL HELOOOOOOOOOOOO, If it was my child, I'd want an immediate DNA test.... there's enough people out there that could protect him. This is a joke. And a lame one. I feel very bad for Noreen as she is in dire need of psychological counselling and more. I equally feel bad for you ATX, you need to leave this alone and get some help too.

[keithjfro]

Yeah I don't get that either. If it were my son I'd want to do DNA testing ASAP.


I don't think he was killed though, I also don't think it was an inside job.

[2sisters]

Why would someone keep doing this, the boy exploited thing? It is not a funny game to play with people. Child abduction is a very serious matter and not a good subject for insane jokes such as, "I'm Doug Chapman", that was an awful thing to do to a family. Why in the world would you do that? Johnny is probably not alive anymore. If he is dead, I hope his remains can be found soon so this can all end. If he is alive, then where is he?

[atx]

Before you continue to accuse me of being someone else, I am new to the board and have never posted here before. If you want the mod to check the ISP to prove this then go ahead, you have my permission.

Secondly, if you look at my posts I never even mentioned Gosch, let alone implied that he is in fact Gannon! So stop trying to pin that on me. If you want to reply to my posts then why don't you address the info I posted?

And last but not least for those of you who may have a hard time believeing that these pedophile sex slavery rings do exist, here is a link to several stories about governments being involved:

http://www.prisonplanet.com/archive_elite_sex_ring.html

[Jeana (DP)]

Okay - let's get back to the topic and drop this other stuff please.

[blueclouds]

:truce: OK JEANA.... SORRY :angel:

My 2cents... I don't buy into conspiracy theories.... if y'all want to, whatever.
Johnny Gosch is long deceased. Give this little boy a rest folks. He's not coming back. Him and 2 other boys... probably buried in the same area.

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm not speaking to any of the stuff posted, except to say that ATX is a new member is NOT a banned member who returned.

[miles_draken]

There is no evidence to support that Johnny is in fact deceased. If we are basing it on other child kidnappings then that isn't proof at all, it's just a likelihood. My feeling all along has been that he is infact alive. I hope some closure can come someday for this family.

[atx]

I'm not speaking to any of the stuff posted, except to say that ATX is a new member is NOT a banned member who returned.Thank you Jeana for clarifying that! Blueclouds I didn't intend to get into a shouting match with you and I am sorry if we got off on the wrong foot. However I felt very disrespected in the fact that you were making false accusations about me and that your responses were directed at me personally and not any of the information I was presenting. In the future I would hope that if you disagree with my views or information you would post information that disputes it rather than slam me.

PS - I'll take that $1000 in cash please :woohoo:

[2sisters]

Does anyone know if there have ever been any leads, confirmed sightings etc forJohnny or any of the other missing DesMoines boys or has the cases been cold from the start?

[blueclouds]

While I appreciate the clarification and all.... I MYSELF have also confirmed with LE TODAY... that our dearly beloved "person" boyexploited has left California.... While I have no 100% proof that he is in Texas.... there was a phone number from that area by him left for one of the investigators RE: DNA testing and the update for chapman family.

NOW this BY NO MEANS ..... MEANS I am pointing any fingers... I just thought I'd call up some LE to find out what else is going on with our old friend.


So with that said, I'm not giving up a $1000.00 until I find out where our friend is at.
Nite all.

[messiecake]

While I appreciate the clarification and all.... I MYSELF have also confirmed with LE TODAY... that our dearly beloved "person" boyexploited has left California.... While I have no 100% proof that he is in Texas.... there was a phone number from that area by him left for one of the investigators RE: DNA testing and the update for chapman family.

NOW this BY NO MEANS ..... MEANS I am pointing any fingers... I just thought I'd call up some LE to find out what else is going on with our old friend.


So with that said, I'm not giving up a $1000.00 until I find out where our friend is at.
Nite all.

I myself find it interesting a new poster would pick this thread of all threads to choose from to post on esp. since they claim they don't know anything about Johnny.If my "hinky meter" getting raised causes ANOTHER post of mine to get deleted so be it but Im with Carey on this one!! HINKY METER IS AT FULL ALERT!!

[blueclouds]

Hey MESSIE! Luv ya dear. My intention is not to point fingers at anyone at all..... including our new poster ATX!

I just wanted to hear what my contact at the LE said about our old friend and since I haven't been in touch with him (LE guy) for awhile, so I thought I'd touch base. I don't want anymore posts deleted and I'm not going to make anymore accusations.

I'm simply going to relay things I can prove to the MODS if they call upon me, especially when I get confirmation emails from the Law Enforcement themselves.

AND I DO CAUTION PEOPLE REGARDING OUR FORMER BOYEXPLOITED.... as one of the emails he sent me stated there would be more children in the EAST GOING MISSING..... HOW WOULD HE KNOW THAT????

NOW.... I AGREE WITH JEANA - let's get back to discussing Johnny and our POV on his case.

(HUGS MESSIE) You're ONE OF A KIND LADY!!!!! :blowkiss:

[atx]

I don't know what I need to do to disprove the accusations you make of me. I am sorry that you are suspicious and find it hard to believe that a new poster would come to the board and make "educated" comments on this case. I have been researching these two cases for the last 6 months or so, the Franklin scandal first caught my interest because I was born in Nebraska. From there I uncovered the ties to Johnny's case. To be honest I was doing a Google search on "Johnny Gosch" and this board was one of the search results. I read through some of the posts and thought this would be a place that I could engage in thoughtful and educated conversation, never in my wildest dreams did I anticipate that my posting would put me at the focus of an identity scandal. I may be wrong but I was under the assumption that this board isn't about US but the information that we have to share...speaking of which no one has addressed the information in my first two posts.

[atx]

I myself find it interesting a new poster would pick this thread of all threads to choose from to post on esp. since they claim they don't know anything about Johnny.If my "hinky meter" getting raised causes ANOTHER post of mine to get deleted so be it but Im with Carey on this one!! HINKY METER IS AT FULL ALERT!!
Could you please point out where I claimed that I don't know anything about Johnny? All I mentioned about Johnny was that I did not make the claim that he was Gannon. Again if you would investigate the information instead of trying to jump to conclusions you would not continue to put your foot in your mouth. :hand:

[blueclouds]

Could you please point out where I claimed that I don't know anything about Johnny? All I mentioned about Johnny was that I did not make the claim that he was Gannon. Again if you would investigate the information instead of trying to jump to conclusions you would not continue to put your foot in your mouth. :hand:
WE'RE NOT POINTING FINGERS ANYMORE... I am simply stating the information I have since received. OK???? Like Jeana asked us, let's get back to talking about Johnny.....

If I update people on BoyExploited person, that DOES NOT mean I'm jumping on you at all. If someone doesn't want to debate the merits you're pointing out, they don't have to.

You're entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to disagree.

[Jeana (DP)]

WE'RE NOT POINTING FINGERS ANYMORE... I am simply stating the information I have since received. OK???? Like Jeana asked us, let's get back to talking about Johnny.....

If I update people on BoyExploited person, that DOES NOT mean I'm jumping on you at all. If someone doesn't want to debate the merits you're pointing out, they don't have to.

You're entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to disagree.


:blowkiss:

Thanks ya'll!!!

[atx]

WE'RE NOT POINTING FINGERS ANYMORE... I am simply stating the information I have since received. OK???? Like Jeana asked us, let's get back to talking about Johnny.....

If I update people on BoyExploited person, that DOES NOT mean I'm jumping on you at all. If someone doesn't want to debate the merits you're pointing out, they don't have to.

You're entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to disagree.
Please do continue to keep us updated on your search for boyexploited, as soon as you find him I will be glad to accept the $1000 and an apology :innocent:

[blueclouds]

Please do continue to keep us updated on your search for boyexploited, as soon as you find him I will be glad to accept the $1000 and an apology :innocent:
done deal!!!! :blowkiss: and I don't think he's you, alright? !!

[atx]

It's all good :dance:

[miles_draken]

seems everything has gotten a bit off topic in this forum. There is still a missing boy out there who, dead or alive, needs a conclusion to his story. I've always felt this case was a very solvable one. I think Johnny's father needs to be located and asked some very serious questions. I would also be interested to hear from Noreen herself on any updates in the case that she is aware of. There just doesn't seem to be any new evidence or answers coming out.

[atx]

I agree that from the interviews I have heard of Noreen that the father did act very suspiciously around the time of the disappearance. The phone calls in the middle of the night and the fact that the morning of JG's abduction was the only time the father did not accompany him on the paper route are dead give-a-ways. I wonder where he is nowadays?

[miles_draken]

The last interview that I heard Noreen doing she said she had no knowledge of his current whereabouts. ONe can only speculate that he was somehow involved, or distraught beyond belief and simply fell out of sight. It's a strange case to say the least.

[miles_draken]

i would be interested to know if cppweb's book has been released yet. He seems to have all the information on this case and some pretty strong opinions. I wonder if there is hard facts to back it up. I continue to be frustrated with this case as developments are so sporadic. Now with this guy in DC claiming to be Johnny GOsch I just wonder if we will ever know the truth.

If anyone has something new to report on this case I would appreciate it. A most frustrating case to be sure.

[jamis]

I live in West Des Moines and have been intritgued with the case from the get go...OUr police did botch the case. I hope for Noreens sake that this is JOhnny and the whole mess is now out in the open it will never be over with. sad to say, if it is Johnny then he will never be left alone (or alive)???

[Izzy Mae]

have you seen the video floating around the internet on this stuff? I posted it on another thread yesterday Click here for thread (look for the #6 post, I made) it's amazing...

edit to add: I was going to mention this, on that video, it said that the main LE guy, heading the investigation for johnny (I'm not sure which one exactly, either the one forced to resign, OR that guys boss) both would go to nebraska for those "sick parties." anyway, one of the young girls forced into the sex ring ended up getting pg by one of them -- have you heard anything about that? I'm new to this whole story... and have been reading on all of it, but have so many questions to ask -- it doesn't seem like there is much interest, maybe because it's been discussed and placed on the back burner, of course since I'm just hearing it, I really want to talk about it, I have sooo many questions.

[atx]

Here is some info pertaining to what you mentioned:
http://www.tedgunderson.com/Investigations/Russell%20Nelson.htm


VICTIM/WITNESS ALISHA OWEN IMPRISONED



Alisha Owen testified at the grand jury in March of 1990 that when she was 14 years of age she had sex with then Omaha Chief of Police, Robert Wadman. Because of this testimony, she was charged with perjury. While on bail awaiting trial, she attended college and was editor of the school newspaper. She was also an honor student. On August 8, 1990, Alisha Owen entered a plea of innocent. On November 9, 1990, Alisha Owen's brother was found dead in a correction center cell, said to have committed suicide by hanging. Alisha Owen was convicted of first offense perjury in 1991 and was sentenced on August 8, 1991, to nine to 27 years in prison. During her prison term, she was in solitary confinement for a period longer than any female citizen in the history of the State of Nebraska. Alisha was let out on parole in mid-1997.



In September, 1997, television show "Inside Edition" reported that Johnny Gosch was still alive. Johnny Gosch is a highly publicized 1982 kidnap victim from West De Moines, Iowa, who has also been named as a victim in the Franklin child abuse matters, as described below. One week after this show was aired, Nebraska authorities picked up Alicia Owen, and without explanation, said she must serve out the remaining lengthy sentence in prison. In spite of this, Alisha refused to recant. Alisha is still incarcerated. Alisha's parents are raising Alisha's daughter, Amanda Jayne, who according to Alisha was sired by Omaha Chief of Police, Robert Wadman. Alisha was 15 years old when she had Amanda.



When the investigation turned the heat up on Wadman he was transferred to Aurora (Illinois). However his involvement in this story didn't end there:



GARY CARADORI , KEY INVESTIGATOR OF FRANKLIN, DIES IN PLANE CRASH



The evening of July 11, 1990, Gary Caradori, the investigator for the Nebraska State Legislature, Special Committee, called Senator Loran Schmit, Chairman of the Committee, from Chicago and told him he had the "smoking gun." Caradori told Senator Schmit he would fly that night from Chicago on his private plane with his son en route to Lincoln, Nebraska, with the evidence. The plane exploded in mid-air a short time later while flying over Aurora, Illinois killing Caradori and his 8-year-old son.



Officials claimed the plane disintegrated in mid-air. They denied an explosion took place. De Camp writes in his book, The Franklin Cover-Up:



"A farmer reported he saw a flash of light, heard an explosion, and saw the plane plunge to the ground. The eyewitness account of the flash of light and the explosion was on the early edition of television news in Nebraska, but was pulled from subsequent reports which said that the plane exploded on impact" (p. 2-3).



Bob Wadman, former Chief of Police of Omaha, and a perpetrator identified by the children was Chief of Police in Aurora at the time. Caradori's briefcase and the rear seat to the plane have never been found. Ted Gunderson suspects his briefcase contained the evidence mentioned the previous night to Senator Schmit, probably the incriminating materials, including photographs, provided by Rusty Nelson to Caradori (See Rusty Nelson statement below). The rear seat was not found, Gunderson suspects, to avoid evidence of a bomb.



The wreckage of the plane was examined on a military base rather than at a location under the control of civilian personnel. Under the Federal Delimitation Agreement, civilian personnel matters are handled by civilians and military matters are handled by the military. The crash was ruled an "accident" by government officials and not an act of sabotage.

Both Gunderson and Noreen Gosch, mother of missing-child Johnny Gosch, later learned that Caradori had in his possession evidence that her son was a victim of the Franklin Satanic cult/sex/drug ring. Paul Bonacci and Rusty Nelson have both provided detailed testimony attesting to this (see sections on Johnny Gosch below).



Gary Caradori repeatedly told friends in the weeks before his death that he feared his plane would be sabotaged. Both Gunderson and Noreen Gosch recently learned from undisclosed sources (whose lives and the lives of their loved ones could be placed in greater danger should their identities be revealed) that a deputy sheriff of a local Illinois sheriff's department was the first person on the scene of the plane explosion. The deputy sheriff said that there was child pornography all over the farm field. The man picked up a large number of photographs and other evidence. The FBI immediately arrived with three flat-bed trucks, grabbed the evidence from his hands, cordoned off the field, walked the field picking up every piece of evidence, put the plane and its parts on the flat-bed trucks, and told the peace officer, "This is confidential information and don't ever speak of it again." The evidence has never surfaced again in the Franklin investigation or any other investigation.



The deputy-sheriff did not remain silent. A few months later, as the deputy sheriff and his wife were driving ,the couple suffered a head-on collision in which the man's wife was killed and he was very seriously injured. It is the opinion of Ted Gunderson, who has 49 years experience in law enforcement and counter-intelligence activities, that this probably was a kill-by-car covert operation attempting to silence and intimidate yet another witness in the Franklin case, as probably occurred, according to sources, in the death of Kathleen Sorenson, the original complainant in the Franklin case.



Sorenson was driving on a two-lane road in October, 1989. Two elderly women in the car in front of Sorenson drove very slowly to slow her car down to a crawl. Another vehicle approached from the opposite direction at a high rate of speed. At the last moment, the elderly women pulled over to the right shoulder to allow the fast approaching car to run into her. The individuals in the fast-approaching car had prior arrest records for cruelty to animals, a common marker for Satanism.



I, Gunderson, suspect in evaluating the accident that it was a Satanic contract suicide. The other driver did not die, but could have. In Satanic law, a person who loses his/her life in such a contract murder/suicide will be reincarnated with more power granted by Satan. Not long after Sorenson's death, a teenager in a youth care facility told a worker, "You better watch out, or we will get you like we got that lady from Blair." Kathleen Sorenson was from Blaire, NE. The youth went on to describe a ceremony of drawing lots for the privilege.

[blueclouds]

FOR ALL THAT IT'S WORTH ATX....

I could post an article 10 x's as large SURROUNDING President CLINTON and all the STRANGE DEATHS and such that have surrounded HIM directly! CONSPIRACY!!! :rolleyes:

[miles_draken]

I don't care much about the whole conspiracy thing surrounding the supposed Franklin cover-up. I started this thread with one thing in mind, finding out what happened to Johnny Gosch. This whole Gannon thing that has come out in Washington now is very intriuging, but if he won't submit to DNA testing, which he has refused to do, then there isn't much further that part of the case will go. No matter how much he looks like Johnny's age progression, DNA is the only thing that would clear this all up. Does anyone know where Johnny's father is? It seems he isn't involved in the search like Noreen is. I don't know if this whole thing is high level government conspiracy or a bunch of nuts trying to make a buck, but I do know that a child was kidnapped in 1982. What happened to him?

[2sisters]

Is it possible that a serial killer was at work in the area?