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LyndyLoo
06-16-2011, 04:07 PM
:floorlaugh:
Didn't this woman get the tape after the first woman used chemicals, which destroyed the imprint of the sticker?

Yes indeed JA just clearified she got it after Ms. Welsh viewed it, went back and couldnt fine it ( Heart imprint)...So ok..that explains it..finger printing processing destroyed that adhesive...then you went on to contaminate it..

Sorry JB this does not disprove that Ms. Welsh and coworker DIDNT SEE it..

Turnadot
06-16-2011, 04:08 PM
The sticker shape & the heart shaped sticker is one of the main things that the State is using to link the body to ICA. Take away that heart impression & the sticker, how do you connect ICA to the body?

The blanket? We know that blanket was at the house, and all of those at the house had access to it.
The Car? We know that several people had access to the car?

Without the sticker and its connection to ICA's sticker collection, you suddenly introduce several other options to who had access to the body.
The decomp in the trunk of her car, which was in her possession when Caylee went "missing". That's what Baez should attack.

And Baez already connected KC to to the body in his opening statement when he put KC at Caylee's death scene.

Tulessa
06-16-2011, 04:08 PM
The sticker shape & the heart shaped sticker is one of the main things that the State is using to link the body to ICA. Take away that heart impression & the sticker, how do you connect ICA to the body?

The blanket? We know that blanket was at the house, and all of those at the house had access to it.
The Car? We know that several people had access to the car?

Without the sticker and its connection to ICA's sticker collection, you suddenly introduce several other options to who had access to the body.

Garbage bags? Laundry bag.

ETA. They have already admitted Caleey drowned.

Amster
06-16-2011, 04:08 PM
Noooo....redirect by JB....well, nevermind, some will love it. MOO

liltexans
06-16-2011, 04:08 PM
Juror 15 continues to take a ton of notes. Almost after every question. #CaseyAnthony -jfell

by cfnews13casey via twitter at 3:07 PM

wenwe4
06-16-2011, 04:08 PM
Lorie Gottesman - FBI Lab division....supv of document examiner....employed @ FBI since 1992 - shy 20 years...BA psych and Masters Forensic Science - San Diego...question document examiner....all different types document handwriting, printing, typwriting, paper, alteration, obliterations, charred documents, compare those items with known items purpose to determine question item authentcity and origin.

train - doc examiner -intensive train @ FBI classroom, books journals, professional meetings, toured factories, tests, boards. most importantly worked actual cases under guidance and supervision of certified document examiners.

writing can be on different types of surfaces...threat on bathroom wall - graffiti, some type of package needs to be put back together - torn items or edges put together....not necessarily documents....member of professional organizations forensic scientists, Amer. society for testing and materials, assessor for American accredits labs ...admitted as an expert previously - not exactly sure 20 -25 times....Fed courts, STate courts and Canada....admit as expert questioned documents examiner.

in course of work use instruments - tools work with regularly - Electrostatic Detection

Video spectoral comparator - tool doc examiner use for variety reasons- comprised variety lights filters, camera film and monitor...able to see different spectrum light detected different thing on the document

12/22/08 report 3 items to test - 3 pieces duct tape....identified Q-62 to Q-64....items came from the victim herself....have reports? yes...where items came from....received from ME's office....items admitted into evidence Q-62- Q-64

what were you asked to do or look @ on these piece duct tape? determine if able to detect heart shape sticker or residue remnants = used videospectoral comparative....DT #AU exhibit - demonstrative aide - photos on the page - not the text....if she feels needs it - no object by JA....explain to jury - move text part over from the jury...
VSC has filters - our eyes see between 400 - 700 nanometers in different colors see white if light reflective and black if absorbed and combo of asorb and reflect ....if go out of 400-700 nanometers before400 or above 700 - use filters allow eyes to see what not normal see- under lights and filters see things without changing the document or disturbing it....put it inside box and look @ document -= naked eye white paper - under ultraviolet light 1 document brighter than the other 4...a 4 page contract or 4 page will 0 suspected insertion of the different page - using filters to aid us to see outside 400-700 spectrum...

what example this show? shredded paper without using any different light in the VSC see some shred pieces are reacting differently than other pieces shred...in their unit they put paper back together...helps to sort the pages to know which ones belong together.

picture on the right document cut - 2 pieces where pages ....using regular light. VSC little luminescing fibers - help to put paper back together - using VSC see paper fibers show pieces paper were onetime attached....

matches - from matchbook have alot impurity and debris inside ...strike match throw away...paper is bottom of barrel for paper...lots fillers in that paper - match left @ crime scene can match up the match up to matchbook....flourescing pieces will line up on VSC

in this case unable to see any sticker or sticker fragment with naked eye...VSC to see any with lights and filters can't see with naked eye...include residue....out of 400-700 nanometers...results after trying different lights and filters unable to detect any sticker residue .....none whatsoever detectable on the duct tape....

after conducting exam - asked to submit dna sample? yes....result of that a month later call from analyst in dna unit...they had unknown profile on one piece of tape..unable to eliminate it from anyone in their unit.....need elimination samples - none of the suspects...wanted to know if she could give hers...later found out it was her profile....she handled with care....precaution ...normal procedure wear gloves - she did do that...recall situation might have contaminated - no idea how or when happened...@ no time sneezed on it...scanned items in plastic protectors...scanned in glassine protective plastic....throughout entire time had these ...

other items to test...later received....

entire report - number pieces of plastic - give an overall assessment of the plastic as well to compare some pieces of plastic with others....some of them eliminated ...others inconclusive....match any plastic bags from residence to scene on suburban drive? no...

no further questions....Cross

JA - received tape #302 - after the latent print had already examined it....processed it, they couldn't find it, you tried to...couldn't find..

bags given to you taken from A residence and compare w/bags from scene....there were just a couple of bags she compared....5 bags residence compared to 2 items from ME's office - all bags from scene didn't conduct comparison....

2 items from ME office - 2 black plastic bags an d 2 known plastic bags from crime scene - majority of the bags she didn't compare....

way would compare bags - compare fracture patterns....machine impressions in the bag and impurity cross over from bag to another -not actually a tear on the end.....some of the bags were different in charcteristic- one brown one black - could eliminate completely

re-direct- mentioned asked to dna from suspects - indicate who suspects were? Object- sustained

no further questions - witness excuse

reeseeva
06-16-2011, 04:08 PM
Why doesn't Ashton ask, if the bags from the scene and the ones from the Anthony's garage both had yellow ties?

FaerieB
06-16-2011, 04:08 PM
Approaching bench before next witness called...? GA?

MissDiva
06-16-2011, 04:08 PM
LOL

JB gets up for re-direct, one objection from JA, and JB has no further questions.

Witness asks if she can go back to W. Virginia, very timidly, and judge laughs and says yes.

mombomb
06-16-2011, 04:08 PM
DIRECT EXAMINATION OF LORI GOTTESMAN BY JB:

Employed at FBI, laboratory division. She is a supervisory forensic question document examiner. She's been at the FBI since 1992.

BA in psychology from George Washington, MS in forensic science from National University in San Diego.

Question document examiner examines all types of documentary evidence and compares them with known items with the purpose of trying to determine the questioned items authenticity or origin.

Training - FBI training, classroom instruction, reading, professional meetings, toured factories, took tests, had oral boards, and worked actual cases under actual certified document examiners.

Sometimes writing can be on a bathroom wall for example - graffiti - torn items, packaging. Doesn't necessarily need to be a document.

Professional organizations - Mid Atlantic Association of Forensic Scientists, American Society for testing and materials, and assessor for ASCLAD lab (International org that accredits labs).

She has been admitted as an expert in court 20 to 25 times throughout the country in both State and Federal courts.

Witness admitted as expert witness in the area of questioned document examination.

She works with tools such as the ESDA machine used to detect indented writing, VSC machine - a tool comprised of lights, filters, camera and monitor used to see different parts of the spectrum of light to detect different things on the document.

12/22/08 report - she received 3 pieces of duct tape identified as Q62,63 and 64. She understood they came from the victim herself.

Her examination was to determine if she was able to detect a heart shaped sticker or any remnants of a sticker. She used the VSC - video spectrum comparator.

JB showed her Exhibit S-302 a photo.

The VSC has lights and filters and allows our eyes to see things not normally visible. Our eyes see at 400 to 700 nanometers - white if reflected, black if absorbed - colored if mixed. Ultra-violet is below 400 - infrared is above 700. Our eyes can't see it, but the VSC allows things to be seen.

With the naked eye these items looked the same. With the VSC, the page colors show one page is a different color.

S-302 is an example of shredded paper under every day light and then under VSC which shows some shred reacting differently. They can put shred back together and this machine helps with the sorting. The next example showed a document that had been cut. Regular light on right and VSC on left. VSC will help to put the papers back together. Next example was matches in a match book. The VSC allows them to match a match to a match book.

In this case she could not see any sticker or sticker fragment with the naked eye. She then used the VSC. Results - unable to detect any sticker or sticker residue on the duct tape.

She was asked, in this case, to submit a DNA sample. A month later she got a call from one of the analysts from the DNA unit stating they had an unknown profile on one of the pieces of tape and they were unable to eliminate it from anyone in their unit or the suspects. She gave her sample and later found out it was her profile on the duct tape.

Precautions when handling items is to wear gloves. She can't recall a situation where she might have contaminated the item. No idea or when. Items were in protective sleeves and she exercised great care.

4/2/09 report - (Stipulation that he will speak generally of the items - JA states they are in evidence that should probably be mentioned - JA seems to be schooling JB) She was given a number of different plastic and was asked to give an overall assessment of them as well as to compare some of them to other pieces of plastic. Some she could eliminate as having originated from one another and others she was unable to make a conclusion.

She was not able to match any of the plastics with the plastic bags found on Suburban Drive.

CROSS EXAMINATION BY JA:

She received the duct tape after the latent print had examined it.

Bags - she was given 5 bags from the A's and then compared them to 2 bags from the ME. She was also given 2 plastic bags that were known bags from the crime scene. She did this by comparing machine impressions and impurities in the bag. She was able to eliminate some and others were inconclusive.

No further questions by JA.

REDIRECT BY JB:

Regarding duct tape, DNA comparison from the "suspects" -

OBJECTION BY JA - SUSTAINED.

Witness Excused.

SIDEBAR #9

illek46
06-16-2011, 04:09 PM
I believe that they found heart sticker residue on the duct tape and it was applied by ICA, I just don't think it was the 'puffy' heart. If I remember the measurements, the duct tape sticker was bigger than the puffy one.

Agreed. IMHO, the state should have left the "puffy" heart out of the evidence and relied more on the testimony of the FBI examiners who saw the residue.

Tricia
06-16-2011, 04:09 PM
OK, take a breather from Casey Anthony.

We need searches to show up Friday, Saturday and Sunday to help us find Michelle Le in Hayward California.

Please click right (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6691503&posted=1#post6691503)here for all the details.


We need yellow(yellow) tagging tape. You know the tape surveyors use to mark off property? We need a lot for the searchers.


If you are planning to go to the search please contact me ASAP so I can arrange for you to buy some of the tape and take it to the search center.
email tgrif@xmission.com or send me a private message.

Wishbone
06-16-2011, 04:09 PM
that poor witness was so happy to get off that stand!! Felt bad for her as she was really nervous.

jmfstl
06-16-2011, 04:09 PM
Haha JB tries to sneak in a question about suspects and DNA

JA objects

JB withdraws the question

HHJP excuses the witness

JB wants a sidebar before the next witness.

Solomisskitty
06-16-2011, 04:09 PM
All kidding aside, how on earth can the other DT attorneys allow JB to continue as lead attorney with the performance he is giving today? His ineptness is giving our proud judicial system a bad name, not to mention the practice of law.

QueenD
06-16-2011, 04:09 PM
LOL, notice how low JA trys to sound now when he objects. He starts out high then lowers his voice. I think he is just loud in general.

Robyn623
06-16-2011, 04:10 PM
Anything interesting happen for the past 2 hours? I had to run some errands. Thx!

ohiogirl
06-16-2011, 04:10 PM
JB skipped the whole part of the story about who disposed of Caylee and what happened during opening statements. If the sticker evidence seems like it is tied to the body or that jury is buying it (and I do buy it), why not just imply through questioning that ICA was so heart-broken about leaving her baby with GA to be disposed of, she handed George the sticker to be placed with the body. The sticker doesn't have to be sinister, if the Defense spins it right and of course you believe their theory. She "could've" handed it to GA and not know that GA put the duct tape on the body or where he put the sticker. Of course, I don't believe it happened this way, but the defense could spin it that way instead of trying so hard to shoot the whole sticker residue down. I think admitting she gave it to GA for a part of their defense would do better than trying to discredit it. But, just my opinion of the matter.

Hope that made sense.
I can't think of any way that he could imply that through questioning that would be allowed by the court. imo

Plumeria5
06-16-2011, 04:10 PM
Gee, somebody shoot me!!!!

Just keep repeating...


:okay:

HMSHoney24
06-16-2011, 04:10 PM
Is it just me or did the PT's witnesses seem MUCH more knowledgeable, capable, intelligible, even better natured, etc..., than the DT's ?

For the most part, IMO, today has been maddening to try to follow. Not to mention the demeanor and testimony of the DT's witnesses hasn't exactly been gripping. Zzzzzz.

Celt1997
06-16-2011, 04:10 PM
Garbage bags? Laundry bag.

ETA. They have already admitted Caleey drowned.

Again, those are things that can be accessed by anyone in the A home. So, if the defense is running with an Anthony coverup, then eliminating the heart sticker is important.

As to the PP about the car, I'm sure they will attempt to discredit that, as well.

Look, I'm with you all about what I think about the case, but JB isn't doing a terrible job at trying to strike at certain key elements.

BetteDavisEyes
06-16-2011, 04:10 PM
Contrary to Bill S' previous comment about the defense moving at a snail's pace and the trial lasting until Christmas, they seemed to whip through a slew of witnesses in a short period of time. I agree with a previous poster who said that the DT weren't prepared for a defense on behalf of their client as they expected her to be acquitted by HHJP yesterday.

Anakerie
06-16-2011, 04:11 PM
Wow.. I love how the prosecutors do their cross.. Just a few questions to get their point across.. Such a change from the meandering questions that Baez does... Even during the prosecution CIC, I don't remember being as lost or as close to falling asleep during the prosecution's questions as I am for the <modsnip> messes...

Ada
06-16-2011, 04:11 PM
The sticker shape & the heart shaped sticker is one of the main things that the State is using to link the body to ICA. Take away that heart impression & the sticker, how do you connect ICA to the body?

The blanket? We know that blanket was at the house, and all of those at the house had access to it.
The Car? We know that several people had access to the car?

Without the sticker and its connection to ICA's sticker collection, you suddenly introduce several other options to who had access to the body.

And anybody in the house also had access to the heart stickers, as they were apparently left behind at the A's house. So, I guess it's going to come down to which Anthony is most likely to have done it. :waitasec:

PlainJaneDoe
06-16-2011, 04:11 PM
Au contraire. Root canals serve a useful purpose. :)

And it's far from boring. Trust me...I don't get novocaine 'cause I have had bad reactions to the -caines in the past. :silenced:

illek46
06-16-2011, 04:11 PM
All kidding aside, how on earth can the other DT attorneys allow JB to continue as lead attorney with the performance he is giving today? His ineptness is giving our proud judicial system a bad name, not to mention the practice of law.

They don't have much choice about it since JB is Lead Attorney

Niner
06-16-2011, 04:11 PM
one of MANY sidebars... so far...

Mountain_Kat
06-16-2011, 04:11 PM
Anything interesting happen for the past 2 hours? I had to run some errands. Thx!

Not really. Minor score from JB, big whop over the head from LDB asking, "Was this a trash dump?"

That's about it.

Novice Seeker
06-16-2011, 04:11 PM
The sticker shape & the heart shaped sticker is one of the main things that the State is using to link the body to ICA. Take away that heart impression & the sticker, how do you connect ICA to the body?

The blanket? We know that blanket was at the house, and all of those at the house had access to it.
The Car? We know that several people had access to the car?

Without the sticker and its connection to ICA's sticker collection, you suddenly introduce several other options to who had access to the body.



The last time anyone saw Caylee alive was with ICA who claimed to be taking her to the imaginary nanny's house so that she could go to her pretend job.

ScubaTwinn
06-16-2011, 04:11 PM
Wow, I had missed the court reporter was wearing purple too!

Lovejac
06-16-2011, 04:11 PM
Is this gal a total space shot or is it just me? Flaky. I can see why the tape ended up contaminated!
I agree. She is acting all dazed and confused. Maybe she nervous?

christee
06-16-2011, 04:11 PM
Hmmm...KC wincing when she stretches her arm/shoulder :rolleyes:

Tulessa
06-16-2011, 04:11 PM
OK, take a breather from Casey Anthony.

We need searches to show up Friday, Saturday and Sunday to help us find Michelle Le in Hayward California.

Please click right (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6691503&posted=1#post6691503)here for all the details.


We need yellow(yellow) tagging tape. You know the tape surveyors use to mark off property? We need a lot for the searchers.


If you are planning to go to the search please contact me ASAP so I can arrange for you to buy some of the tape and take it to the search center.
email tgrif@xmission.com or send me a private message.

God bless you Tricia. You have a heart like no other. :blowkiss: We are so lucky to have you.

cityslick
06-16-2011, 04:11 PM
Well, I don't have a doubt in the world that she drove around with Caylee's decomposing body in the trunk of her car for 3-5 days, so let's just go with that. ;)

There are two things that possibly link ICA to the body, the smell in the car (done with air sample testimony that has never been used in court before) and the sticker. Remember, the charge is1st degree murder.

Nobody who's paying attention thinks ICA is innocent, but the jury does have to apply what evidence they have in relation to how they find someone guilty of 1st degree murder. I've always took 1st degree meaning 'intent'.

jon_burrows
06-16-2011, 04:12 PM
I wonder what the jury thinks about ICA whispering to her attorneys while covering her mouth. It makes it look like she has something to hide.

IMO

BuffaloPI
06-16-2011, 04:12 PM
ICA looking very morose this afternoon. Defense just not going as well as she hoped, maybe? No snickers, winks, etc (her usual shtick).

wvjules
06-16-2011, 04:12 PM
Other than the marathon witness, we seem to be flying through them today.

Drama Queen
06-16-2011, 04:12 PM
OK, take a breather from Casey Anthony.

We need searches to show up Friday, Saturday and Sunday to help us find Michelle Le in Hayward California.

Please click right (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6691503&posted=1#post6691503)here for all the details.


We need yellow(yellow) tagging tape. You know the tape surveyors use to mark off property? We need a lot for the searchers.


If you are planning to go to the search please contact me ASAP so I can arrange for you to buy some of the tape and take it to the search center.
email tgrif@xmission.com or send me a private message.

I live across the country and will not be able to participate but...I have forwarded the information to my son and many friends near the location. One of them has heard of it and plans on helping. God's blessings on the search and people acquainted with her and I pray that she is found.

azscr4mbl3r
06-16-2011, 04:12 PM
I'm obviously too stupid to know where Baez is going with this, anyone want to clue me in?

well JB confused hisself just aminute ago and said " I think that's what I mean"
words to that affect... I did hear him say it but wasn't to surprised he confused hisself

Turnadot
06-16-2011, 04:12 PM
Why doesn't Ashton ask, if the bags from the scene and the ones from the Anthony's garage both had yellow ties?
Is there only one brand that has yellow ties? But even then, how many people in Orlando buy that brand. I bet thousands. I'm not sure JA asking about the yellow ties would accomplish anything.

Chiquita71
06-16-2011, 04:13 PM
:tyou: to mombomb and wenwe :takeabow:

You are both stronger than I. :yes:

:blowkiss:

Mountain_Kat
06-16-2011, 04:13 PM
And anybody in the house also had access to the heart stickers, as they were apparently left behind at the A's house. So, I guess it's going to come down to which Anthony is most likely to have done it. :waitasec:

The state doesn't even have an identical sticker from the house to show along with this sticker in evidence for an "AHA!" moment.

Should have left it out. Useless evidence, imo.

Miss Anarchy
06-16-2011, 04:13 PM
Cary Oien up now - FBI Trace evidence unit supervisor

kathyn2
06-16-2011, 04:13 PM
what was the purpose of that last witness? I was totally lost

NSS
06-16-2011, 04:13 PM
Witness says she used her machine to try to find residue and debris on the tape. She tried all the different lights and filters, but couldn't find any sticker residue.


It may be just semantics, but the witness and JB kept referring to 'sticker residue' and 'sticker fragments'. Both suggest remnants of paper to me.

Would the machine that she used also highlight the gum/paste/glue? (I wonder if the light would pick up impurities because of it being in plastic too).

I think the sticker was more vinyl than paper, and it originated from the single sticker backing in the box marked 'Caylee'

JMHO

Sleuths4Me
06-16-2011, 04:13 PM
Maybe just maybe the jurors are taking a lot of notes because JB was going in every direction during the states CIC that they want to write down each direction he goes

MissDiva
06-16-2011, 04:13 PM
Why does this current witness worry me?

nerdy
06-16-2011, 04:14 PM
All kidding aside, how on earth can the other DT attorneys allow JB to continue as lead attorney with the performance he is giving today? His ineptness is giving our proud judicial system a bad name, not to mention the practice of law.

All kidding aside, today I forgot there WERE other DT attorneys.

Lovejac
06-16-2011, 04:14 PM
is this witness is going to testify about the insects??

jenniek
06-16-2011, 04:14 PM
Wow, I had missed the court reporter was wearing purple too!

sorry missed this, what is the significance of purple?

coloradoteacher
06-16-2011, 04:14 PM
So the garbage gag testimony means nothing as some were inconclusive as to matches between A home and crime scene. She could not rule out a match.

christee
06-16-2011, 04:14 PM
I wonder what the jury thinks about ICA whispering to her attorneys while covering her mouth. It makes it look like she has something to hide.

IMO
She sure does! :thumb:

bbm

JusticeSeeker1960
06-16-2011, 04:14 PM
CFNews13Casey Casey Anthony News13
Juror 15 continues to take a ton of notes. Almost after every question. #CaseyAnthony -jfell

Is that the one that's a teacher? If so, they found out the other day that he's an alternate....so the notes are for his classwork unless he gets to go in at some time.

Pita
06-16-2011, 04:14 PM
I wonder what the jury thinks about ICA whispering to her attorneys while covering her mouth. It makes it look like she has something to hide.

IMO

I have been thinking that all along, it makes her look like she is conniving, if I was a juror I would not like that, whispering behind her hands makes her look sneaky to me.

sorrell skye
06-16-2011, 04:14 PM
This testimony is like getting a root canal...

Yes - but at least during a root canal, one is able to enjoy the wonderful effects of pain killers.

And heeeeerrrrre comes another hair analyst!

Mountain_Kat
06-16-2011, 04:14 PM
Hair guy.

(I hate the hair evidence...so boring.)

liltexans
06-16-2011, 04:14 PM
Regarding 911 call yesterday- George today in court says he will not comment.

by cfnews13casey via twitter at 3:14 PM

Sleuths4Me
06-16-2011, 04:14 PM
He is NOT a chemist:crazy:

Bullwinkle
06-16-2011, 04:14 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_P1YChrwWvOs/S6x8oAf6RxI/AAAAAAAAAYU/8kqMYKNFoWY/s1600/GaryOwens.jpg

"You're watching DNA-TV - all DNA, all the time."

Quiche
06-16-2011, 04:14 PM
Is he going to try to debunk the deathband?

FootballMom
06-16-2011, 04:15 PM
Threads move so fast & I'm allegedly at work....

1.) Heart sticker found with Caylee
2.) Heart stickers found in ICA's room/scrap book box/photos, whatever...
3.) Duct tape aside;
4.) Questions:
a.) Did the sticker match ANY of the stickers (or fit any of the empty sheets) owned or used by ICA?
b.) Surely some lab (especially FBI) could run analysis to determine the composition &/or manufacturer of the sticker that was found...

Jeebus… Maybe I'll just pretend I'm taking a shot of tequila (since I'm at work... allegedly)....

fifteen89
06-16-2011, 04:15 PM
Is it just me or did the PT's witnesses seem MUCH more knowledgeable, capable, intelligible, even better natured, etc..., than the DT's ?

For the most part, IMO, today has been maddening to try to follow. Not to mention the demeanor and testimony of the DT's witnesses hasn't exactly been gripping. Zzzzzz.

Having the truth behind you is a powerful thing.

coloradoteacher
06-16-2011, 04:15 PM
hair and fiber... wondering what this is about...

TotallyObsessed
06-16-2011, 04:15 PM
Is it just me, or do we see a pattern of EX-EMPLOYEES for the DT?

Anadarko
06-16-2011, 04:15 PM
Jeez Louise! Is he going to call every employee from Quantico? Give me a break......

Novice Seeker
06-16-2011, 04:15 PM
The state doesn't even have an identical sticker from the house to show along with this sticker in evidence for an "AHA!" moment.

Should have left it out. Useless evidence, imo.


The lab personnel didn't see a sticker, they noted glue residue in the shape of a sticker similiar to what was found in ICA's bedroom.

jon_burrows
06-16-2011, 04:15 PM
Is there only one brand that has yellow ties? But even then, how many people in Orlando buy that brand. I bet thousands. I'm not sure JA asking about the yellow ties would accomplish anything.

I don't know but they didn't collect the trash bags until after Caylee's remains were discovered 6 months later. I suspect the trash bags they had in June were all used and they bought another box of trash bags.

IMO

Mountain_Kat
06-16-2011, 04:16 PM
is this witness is going to testify about the insects??

If so, he's wasting his breath on me. I don't doubt Dr. Haskell for one second. If he told me the sky was green, I'd believe him. ;)

Oakley
06-16-2011, 04:16 PM
MagpieFromHinky Pamela
This isn't worth being here
2 minutes ago

nursebeeme
06-16-2011, 04:16 PM
he is talking about Q46 shovel for mineralogic exam (stickers were on shovel)

JustMeDeb
06-16-2011, 04:16 PM
So what exactly is Mason's role in the defense? If he is attempting to help, JB must just be ignoring him.

Soulmagent
06-16-2011, 04:16 PM
Over a durn un needed sticker.:banghead:

It was a sticker the jury was very interested in JB needed to show the Lab mess up and the messy handling on evidence as his opening stated so he is making headway toward scoring points in getting the jury to except what he says as true.

grandmaj
06-16-2011, 04:16 PM
The shovel again. Shovel seems to really bother the DT. They fought it being entered.

Robyn623
06-16-2011, 04:16 PM
Deputy just kicked out a sleeping spectator.
by Gabe Travers/WESH.com at 3:13 PM

These poor people! They show up at court really really early only to be subjected to this tiring questioning today. I'd fall asleep too.

cleo612
06-16-2011, 04:17 PM
JB made a point about not being able to match the garbage bags.


But... they were collected 6 months after Caylee disappeared. Am I remembering that correctly?

Mountain_Kat
06-16-2011, 04:17 PM
The lab personnel didn't see a sticker, they noted glue residue in the shape of a sticker similiar to what was found in ICA's bedroom.

I didn't hear that in trial. Maybe I missed it? :waitasec:

ETA: Oh, you mean the sticker strip photographed from her bedroom. I see what you mean. But meh...I have heart shaped stickers in my desk too.

reasonable
06-16-2011, 04:17 PM
Wait a second!! Were they heart shaped stickers??

eaglemom
06-16-2011, 04:17 PM
Examined shovel sticker for hair and fiber evidence

Turnadot
06-16-2011, 04:17 PM
There are two things that possibly link ICA to the body, the smell in the car (done with air sample testimony that has never been used in court before) and the sticker. Remember, the charge is1st degree murder.

Nobody who's paying attention thinks ICA is innocent, but the jury does have to apply what evidence they have in relation to how they find someone guilty of 1st degree murder. I've always took 1st degree meaning 'intent'.
And her lawyer's opening statement.

Baez told the jury that KC was present when Caylee drowned on the 16th.

It doesn't matter that it's not evidence, the jury remembers him saying that, yet he's done all in his power to distance KC from Caylee's body when he should be putting on a defense that explains his opening statement.

So far, he's made very little headway today. KC deserves better than this. He's used her to get his mug on TV and get famous, then he starts off with a limp, meaningless defense. I'm disgusted.

I feel he doesn't care if she's convicted, he got what he wanted.

liltexans
06-16-2011, 04:17 PM
Is that the one that's a teacher? If so, they found out the other day that he's an alternate....so the notes are for his classwork unless he gets to go in at some time.

I missed that. How did the jurors find out which of them are alternates?

pipkins
06-16-2011, 04:17 PM
back to the shovel again? Ohhhhh maaaan!

PlainJaneDoe
06-16-2011, 04:17 PM
It may be just semantics, but the witness and JB kept referring to 'sticker residue' and 'sticker fragments'. Both suggest remnants of paper to me.

Would the machine that she used also highlight the gum/paste/glue? (I wonder if the light would pick up impurities because of it being in plastic too).

I think the sticker was more vinyl than paper, and it originated from the single sticker backing in the box marked 'Caylee'

JMHO

This illustrates what I was trying to say about understanding the instrumentation so that I could evaluate the arguments. :waitasec:

sassy_texasbelle2
06-16-2011, 04:17 PM
Guys, I know this is rough, but this humor is in really bad taste.

My apologies.

nursebeeme
06-16-2011, 04:17 PM
cauc. hair on sticker...

family who owned the shovel (and used it) were cauc....

crimejunkie
06-16-2011, 04:17 PM
I can't think of any way that he could imply that through questioning that would be allowed by the court. imo

What I meant was, he could have done that in his opening statement and/or then IF ICA testifies, he could ask her and it could come out. Same with the whole theory....since GA denies that he had involvement and the sex abuse didn't happen....that has to come out in some way other than just opening statements. Well, I guess it doesn't have to come into evidence, but if they want the jury to believe it, it needs to come in, since opening statements aren't evidence. I assume that information will come out through questioning of ICA on the stand, but maybe they have something else up their sleeve that I am not seeing. So, anyway...the long of the short is that would be the questioning I was referring to. :)

STEADFAST
06-16-2011, 04:18 PM
The sticker shape & the heart shaped sticker is one of the main things that the State is using to link the body to ICA. Take away that heart impression & the sticker, how do you connect ICA to the body?

The blanket? We know that blanket was at the house, and all of those at the house had access to it.
The Car? We know that several people had access to the car?

Without the sticker and its connection to ICA's sticker collection, you suddenly introduce several other options to who had access to the body.

No one at the home had access to Casey's car -- they couldn't even find her, let alone her car. She wouldn't let George near the car trunk the one time he saw her. When the other Anthonys got access to the car again, it already had the smell of decomposing flesh. On the other hand, Casey had access to her car and everything formerly kept at the Anthony house and later found at the scene -- the trash bags, laundry bag, duct tape, etc.

Quiche
06-16-2011, 04:18 PM
There was a sticker, as in a decal, on the shovel? Really?

christee
06-16-2011, 04:18 PM
Whaaa?
Sticker(label) from the shovel? With a fragment of hair?

TortillaChip
06-16-2011, 04:18 PM
ICA looking very morose this afternoon. Defense just not going as well as she hoped, maybe? No snickers, winks, etc (her usual shtick).

Jury face. When they're gone, she smiles and is chatty Cathy.:maddening:

BigFatMommyDog
06-16-2011, 04:18 PM
ok. hair stuck on shovel sticker

Mountain_Kat
06-16-2011, 04:18 PM
Found a hair on the shovel.

OMG...the shovel belonged to the neighbor! This is beyond stupid.

Donjeta
06-16-2011, 04:18 PM
Which shovel is this, the one Casey borrowed from a neighbor?

pipkins
06-16-2011, 04:19 PM
Nice one baez - you pointed out that there was a hair on the shovel

Eidetic
06-16-2011, 04:19 PM
lol @ the irony of this witness for the defense pointing out stickers are sticky and they stick to things when the defense is trying it's hardest to get away from these sticky heart shaped stickers.

Chiquita71
06-16-2011, 04:19 PM
Jose has asked the witness to tell the ladies and gents of the jury how he did his examination.

Witness says Miss Lowe was not in the room. The item was a shovel. He is looking at his notes.

objection
I think overruled?

There were stickers on the shovel. Stickers are sticky and hold on to things. Even though the shovel was entered into mineral exams, they looked at the stickers and removed hair and fiber debris. One one sticker, the sticker from the shaft of the shovel a small human hair that was caucasion and was on that sticker. The hair based on the size it was suitable to do any more work. The hair was removed and submitted to Mitochrondrial DNA. He does not know the outcome of that test.

Jose asks if he feels "quality is job one." :rolleyes:

TortillaChip
06-16-2011, 04:19 PM
Found a hair on the shovel.

OMG...the shovel belonged to the neighbor! This is beyond stupid.

LE didn't collect that shovel from BB I think until a few days later?

KenoshaKid
06-16-2011, 04:19 PM
Who cares about the shovel? It came back clean.

Novice Seeker
06-16-2011, 04:20 PM
I didn't hear that in trial. Maybe I missed it? :waitasec:



I'll need a couple of drinks before I go digging for that.

laniefi
06-16-2011, 04:20 PM
Found a hair on the shovel.

OMG...the shovel belonged to the neighbor! This is beyond stupid.

Next thing ya know we will be told the wodden handle on the shovel is made from an oak tree in timbuktu....

eaglemom
06-16-2011, 04:20 PM
cauc. hair on sticker...

family who owned the shovel (and used it) were cauc....

sticker on shovel handle (sounded like it was a factory sticker)

MOO

JSR
06-16-2011, 04:20 PM
But... they were collected 6 months after Caylee disappeared. Am I remembering that correctly?

I think you're right Cleo. Thanks for refreshing my memory. Did JA make that same comment today. That might be worth commenting on.

jane the dood
06-16-2011, 04:20 PM
I'd like to hang in there until 5 o'clock but, honestly, today's testimony is making my eyes bleed. I am not that stoic! But a big shout out to LDB for calling Caylee's final "resting place" what is really was ... a trash dump. Powerful stuff!

See you guys tomorrow.

Keep Caylee in your thoughts! Especially today.
Peace!
:heartbeat:

HMSHoney24
06-16-2011, 04:20 PM
what was the purpose of that last witness? I was totally lost

To let GA and CA know to have their wills examined by her handy, dandy machine thingy? Or maybe that two pieces of paper can be cut and put back together? Umm, then there's the fact that matches are made out of the lowest quality paper there is? :waitasec:

Linda7NJ
06-16-2011, 04:20 PM
Oh dear God...I am nodding off.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Dr.Fessel
06-16-2011, 04:20 PM
I have 2 shovels and a rake.

RR0004
06-16-2011, 04:20 PM
I think the real issue here is he is NOT attacking the evidence. It's more like a soft lob, IMO.

Lovejac
06-16-2011, 04:20 PM
If so, he's wasting his breath on me. I don't doubt Dr. Haskell for one second. If he told me the sky was green, I'd believe him. ;)

I hear ya! :heartluv::loveyou: Dr, Haskell is :great:

darnudes
06-16-2011, 04:21 PM
haha...this is all about discrediting Dr Vass!

Give it up Baez.

FaerieB
06-16-2011, 04:21 PM
LeonardPadilla Leonard Padilla
The only reason I was in Orlando is to meet with Judge Jeanine. She wanted to see how the far the site was fro… (cont) http://deck.ly/~mMWrT

ETA: The guy is UNbelievable!

reeseeva
06-16-2011, 04:21 PM
How to loose and Audience....in Bill Schaeffer's words, "Mind-Numbing"

Novice Seeker
06-16-2011, 04:21 PM
Wait a second!! Were they heart shaped stickers??


On the duct tape there was glue residue in the shape of a heart.

wenwe4
06-16-2011, 04:21 PM
DT calls Cary Oien....section chief FBI lab unit...3 previous positons w/FBI - just over 15 years w/FBI - Bach in Biology...Masters in Emtomology.....hair and fiber examiner over 1 year training reading, microscope hair and fiber samples compare hair and fibers to known samples.....complete training program qualified as examiner for hair and fibers....admit as expert in hair and fiber...

Sept 2008 - worked unit chief of trace evidence unit- managing all trace unit personnel - asked to conduct exam on this case....on this submission of evidence report 9/12/08 - primary examiner Ms. Lowe not present in lab....he had an opportunity to conduct evidence exam so evidence keep flowing- shovel - Q-46 received in and minerologic exam...stickers on the item...hold trace evidence - hair and fiber took a look - with mineralology
examiner - mounted hair and fibers on glass microscope slide - one sticker from shaft of shovel found 1/4" long caucasion hair - limited size - fragment of hair....submitted to mitochondrial dna for subsequent analysis....do not know results....section chief....ensure QA within lab - one of the aspects of job....each unit has QA personnel for lab and each unit follows ....accredited ASCLAB lab - process criteria established by ISO - international standard organization.

ASCLAD lab had all criteria - policy procedure - maintain and calibrate equipment - broad reaching accredation program - volunteer inspector or assessor come in to assess you .....reserach lab have to go thru same criteria?
If a lab not accredited by ASCLAD or another organization - are they on their own or are they monitored? (object- sidebar)

watergirl
06-16-2011, 04:21 PM
ASCLD

http://www.ascld-lab.org/index.htm

Mountain_Kat
06-16-2011, 04:21 PM
LE didn't collect that shovel from BB I think until a few days later?

I thought it was longer than that. But either way...the neighbors hair was on the shovel. OOooh...maybe HE killed Caylee, huh? ;)

mitzi
06-16-2011, 04:21 PM
JB using this witness to try to discredit Dr. Vass. :(

Amster
06-16-2011, 04:22 PM
May be helpful for those who haven't read it...the discovery about the sticker residue, stickers found in ICA's room. We've heard testimony from one FBI examiner who saw it. I imagine we will hear from the 2nd one in the states rebuttal.

Rapunzel
06-16-2011, 04:22 PM
Which shovel is this, the one Casey borrowed from a neighbor?

Yes, and the sticker was already there, it was a sticker for the shovel...prolly had a zebra code on it...something like that.

nursebeeme
06-16-2011, 04:22 PM
PLEASE review this forum thoroughly before posting today:



:tos: Here they are! (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159)



PLEASE avoid posts that are:

- bashing the defendant's looks or grooming, in words or through visual images

- using derogatory or demeaning terms to refer to players in this case

- snarky to fellow WSers

- otherwise sending the thread off-topic.

Posters who continue to ignore the TOS or the Rules of Etiquette will find themselves on a Time Out.

If you come across a post that violates TOS or the Rules of Etiquette, or that is clearly taking the thread off-topic, the appropriate response is to hit the red triangle "Alert" button, leave a message for our mods, and move on. Please do not quote the offending post or comment upon it in any way. The mods are equipped with brooms and light sabers and will do everything in their power to make sure that WS continues to be the premier true-crime forum on the Web.

Thank you to the many posters who have helped the mods by alerting on questionable posts these last days.

:rocker:come on guys..... read this again before posting! and no you may not SEE the posts that violate this because they are being dealt with... also please make sure to go back and review the mod stickie on the forum about the defense is up.... you must read and thank before posting here. by reading and thanking it you have read and understood the rules right?

thanks!

Janis396
06-16-2011, 04:22 PM
Any opinions on whether Caylee was conscious or unconscious when her mother wrapped her little face in duct tape?

adb263
06-16-2011, 04:22 PM
Regarding 911 call yesterday- George today in court says he will not comment.

by cfnews13casey via twitter at 3:14 PM

Can someone point me in a direction to what this is in reference too?

PM me or link please!

cityslick
06-16-2011, 04:22 PM
And her lawyer's opening statement.

Baez told the jury that KC was present when Caylee drowned on the 16th.

It doesn't matter that it's not evidence, the jury remembers him saying that, yet he's done all in his power to distance KC from Caylee's body when he should be putting on a defense that explains his opening statement.

So far, he's made very little headway today. KC deserves better than this. He's used her to get his mug on TV and get famous, then he starts off with a limp, meaningless defense. I'm disgusted.

I feel he doesn't care if she's convicted, he got what he wanted.

Actually, juries are instructed that they are not to regard what is said in OS as 'evidence'. I agree with you, she's got bad representation but she's not a celebrity (in like how we think of one) to afford a 'dream' team or else this might be a different trial.

There is a reason why guys like OJ, MJ and that baretta guy (forgot the name) got off and it wasn't just because the jury wasn't any good. What do they all have in common?

JSR
06-16-2011, 04:22 PM
It is always 5 o'clock somewhere right??? It's only 1:30 here but it might be time for happy hour ....

This is excruciating.

Linda7NJ
06-16-2011, 04:22 PM
ass-clad:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

BigFatMommyDog
06-16-2011, 04:22 PM
haha...this is all about discrediting Dr Vass!

Give it up Baez.

bumping this - I was falling asleep there...

bonjoviblonde
06-16-2011, 04:22 PM
Huh? Is JB trying to get this FBI guy to say something about Dr. Vass's research lab?

Robyn623
06-16-2011, 04:22 PM
lol...love JA's cross

Mz.Harleywood
06-16-2011, 04:23 PM
Tomorrow looks like a good day to get that blood test I've been putting off for 2 weeks!!!!!!!!!!

Wholehearted
06-16-2011, 04:23 PM
JA rattling off questions to prove the hair is meaningless.

Beyond Belief
06-16-2011, 04:23 PM
hair prob from person who applied the sticker maybe at the factory

countzero
06-16-2011, 04:23 PM
Oh dear God...I am nodding off.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I am getting a lot of progress done on the prayer shawl I am crocheting.

mombomb
06-16-2011, 04:23 PM
DIRECT EXAMINATION OF CARY OIEN BY JB:

Section Chief at FBI. He's been at FBI for 15 years.

BS in Biology and MS in Entomology. Received 1 year training at FBI in hairs and fibers.

JB tenders witness as an expert in hair and fiber analysis. Accepted.

In September 2008 he was the unit chief of the trace evidence unit, managing all of the trace evidence unit personal - examiners and scientists - including Karen Lowe and Stephen Shaw.

In this case he conducted an examination.

9/12/08 report - Ms. Lowe was not present when this item came in, so he did the analysis. It was a shovel (stipulated as to the shovel) Q-46 received for a mineralogic examination, but there were stickers which are very good receptors of trace evidence, so they looked at it for hair and fiber. He examined the underside of the stickers and removed debris to be mounted on a slide, then analyzed that. He found that on one of the stickers he found a small human hair (about 1/4 inch) that exhibited caucasion characteristics, but it was not suitable for him to compare to a known sample. It was considered a fragment. Then submitted it to mitochondrial analysis. He doesn't know the results of that.

His lab is ASCLAD Lab accredited which means they are assessed to make sure they meet criteria.

Does a research lab have to do this?

OBJECTION by - outside area of expertise

If a lab is not accredited by ASCLAD or other organization, are they pretty much on their own or are they monitored?

SIDEBAR #10

CROSS EXAM BY JA:

No more info on the hair, other than it was caucasion.

REDIRECT EXAM BY JB:

Fair that he did a full examination.

Witness is excused.

Jury is excused until tomorrow at 9:00.

Bobbisangel
06-16-2011, 04:23 PM
No blood on the car seat, color me stunned.


Why are they making such a big deal out of finding no blood? No one thinks that Caylee was beat to death or stabbed or anything that would cause her to bleed. I just wonder how long any fluids last in water for 6 months? If there was anything on the duct tape it is probably gone because of being in the water for so long. I hope the Pros can hold their own during this trial. I don't know what will happen if that evil woman is allowed to walk out of that door and not have to pay big time for what she did. Caylee has to have justice!!!!

Wholehearted
06-16-2011, 04:23 PM
Why are they ending early?

Beyond Belief
06-16-2011, 04:23 PM
bye bye for today RECESS TIL THE MORNING

RammerJammer
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
Well....that felt like a waste of my day. A huge waste.

wenwe4
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
JA - don't know how, where, =why it is there other than caucasion hair fragment...

JB -did a thorough job
yes
witness excused

recess for evening - tomorrow @ 9am

Turnadot
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
I think the real issue here is he is NOT attacking the evidence. It's more like a soft lob, IMO.
Yes, exactly.

He needs to go hard at them. The man has had three years, and this is what he gives his client?

fla*mom
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
I don't know but they didn't collect the trash bags until after Caylee's remains were discovered 6 months later. I suspect the trash bags they had in June were all used and they bought another box of trash bags.

IMO

yes, they didn't even know trash bags would be involved before they found Caylee. You never know in the box that they came from could have been down to the last few when she grabbed one and then a new box would have been opened. And as far as the bags being two different colors, she said one was black one was brown she could have grabbed the other from TL's and his trash bags could have been down to the last few also.

Chiquita71
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
No blood in Tony's car. One saw sticker but one did not because she contaiminated it not because it didn't exist.

Lane six, Caylee was left in a garbage dump after she accidentally drown-there was no blood on the pooh blanket: oh wait! STRIKE that. Jose did not mean to ask fifteen minutes of questions about that blanket.

Side bar. Win Lose or Draw Pad...Witness who took the longest today let us know there was nothing she could conclusively tell us about anything.

The sticker was never there but it was contaminated by a lab tech, oh I said that one...it is a good one.

Blood. NO.

Hair on the shovel. Stickers on the shovel, that Casey borrowed but we don't know why...not even the bamboo excuse: the jury never heard that: they heard Casey held Caylee's dead body in her arms three years ago today. :shakehead: :curses: :confused:

:twocents:

Mountain_Kat
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
Free at last! Free at last! Thank God almighty, I am free at last!! :)

Anadarko
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
Bodda boom! Bodda bing!! Thank you, Mr. Ashton.

momtective
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
It's over!
http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx132/The_Missing/30db78p.gif

nursebeeme
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
this thread is closing and we are moving to the sidebar very quickly! see you over there

TortillaChip
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
Sometimes this seems like a testosterone tourney!!!

adb263
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
WTH...it is 4:22. we are recessing for the day?

ZsaZsa
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
I've got a sticker on my shovel too, it says Sears Craftsman. What's his point?

cityslick
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
I feel bad for people waiting in line since last night just to sit in the courtroom for this stuff today.

Lovejac
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
court is over

Thank God!

Kenziema
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
WHAT?!? There's 36 minutes left!

fifteen89
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
Contrary to Bill S' previous comment about the defense moving at a snail's pace and the trial lasting until Christmas, they seemed to whip through a slew of witnesses in a short period of time. I agree with a previous poster who said that the DT weren't prepared for a defense on behalf of their client as they expected her to be acquitted by HHJP yesterday.

^^^ Really??

strach304
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
LOL, notice how low JA trys to sound now when he objects. He starts out high then lowers his voice. I think he is just loud in general.

HHJP has worked with him before so he should already know it. At least he had the good sense not to blow up in front of the jury.

SillyJilly
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
And her lawyer's opening statement.

Baez told the jury that KC was present when Caylee drowned on the 16th.

It doesn't matter that it's not evidence, the jury remembers him saying that, yet he's done all in his power to distance KC from Caylee's body when he should be putting on a defense that explains his opening statement.

So far, he's made very little headway today. KC deserves better than this. He's used her to get his mug on TV and get famous, then he starts off with a limp, meaningless defense. I'm disgusted.

I feel he doesn't care if she's convicted, he got what he wanted.

I feel she's guilty as sin, BUT she does,in all fairness, deserve good representation and IMO this is the worst she could have gotten. He was looking for a big case to make a name for himself and boy did he ever! Unfortunately, anyone in need of an attorney will look in a different direction. He is killing his career and definitely NOT helping ICA.

My concern is that,once convicted,she will appeal due to poor representation.

OneLostGrl
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
I can't stand all that heavy breathing through the microphones all day long.

Oakley
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
MagpieFromHinky Pamela
AWWWW> The couple from Toronto have had enough. I'm impressed they lasted this long. Don't know if they even care to come tomorrow

Mountain_Kat
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
Why are they ending early?

Merciful Judge? :floorlaugh:

Pita
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
Anyone else see Jose remind CA to look at the jurors....

kathyn2
06-16-2011, 04:24 PM
How does Baez plan to prove his opening statements? How does he plan to prove the accident theory? Thats what he should be doing instead of this boring stuff that is putting the jury to sleep and has no significance really.

Dr.Fessel
06-16-2011, 04:25 PM
What the heck?

NSS
06-16-2011, 04:25 PM
Jury leaves --- I'm thinking we have 'issues' to discuss.

Novice Seeker
06-16-2011, 04:25 PM
May be helpful for those who haven't read it...the discovery about the sticker residue, stickers found in ICA's room. We've heard testimony from one FBI examiner who saw it. I imagine we will hear from the 2nd one in the states rebuttal.



Thank You...can I still have that drink?

Harmony2
06-16-2011, 04:25 PM
<<<<<<<<<< Side Bar Thread >>>>>>

2011.06.16 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

greycoupon
06-16-2011, 04:25 PM
haha...this is all about discrediting Dr Vass!

Give it up Baez.

But is this witness a chemist? or a biologist?

THAT'S IT? No more witnesses today? Something going on to be stopping early? Nope, they are just done. I am confused.