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Richard
10-14-2004, 01:39 PM
"Blairstown Princess Doe" Unidentified girl murdered July 1982 Blairstown, NJ

BLAIRSTOWN NJ UNIDENTIFIED GIRL
DOB: Jan 1, 1968 (Approximation)
Found: Jul 15, 1982
Age at time of discovery: 14 (Approximation)
Age Now: 36
Sex: Female
Race: White
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Unknown
Height: 5'2" (157 cm)
Weight: 110 lbs (50 kg)
Found: BLAIRSTOWN, NJ, United States
NCMEC-Unidentified

Circumstances:
On July 15, 1982, the remains of a white female were found at the north end of Cedar Ridge Cemetery on State Hwy 94, in Warren Co., NJ. This homicide victim, between 14 and 18 years of age, is believed to have been deceased for up to one week before her discovery. Her hair was shoulder-length. Her weight was estimated between 100 to 120 lbs. Her eye color couldn't be determined.

Clothing and Accessories:
She was wearing a red V-neck shirt with yellow piping on the front portion of the shoulder and blue and black piping around the neck, sleeves and waist. She had a wrap around skirt colored red, white and blue with a border print of peacocks on the lower portion. She had a gold chain with white beads and a 14K gold cross with ornate design.

The image shown in the linked poster is a computer-assisted facial reconstruction done by forensic artists at the NCMEC. The "DOB" and "Age" fields are approximations.

At one time, a woman called NCMEC and said she was working at a local motel (near Blairstown) when the "Princess" checked in - about two nights before she was probably murdered. She did not recall the name, but did recall "Princess" was looking to be a hotel maid and said her father was dentist and that she was a runaway from FL. Dental charts of "Princess" were compared with those of Emma Vaughn, a missing girl from Orlando, Florida, but there was no match.

ANYONE HAVING INFORMATION SHOULD CONTACT--
Warren County Prosecutor's Office (New Jersey), Attn.: Sgt. Steve Speirs Jr. -1-908-475-6624

Link
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewPoster&caseNum=400028&orgPrefix=NCMU&searchLang=en_US

shadowangel
05-20-2005, 08:21 PM
I thought that someone would have commented on this case, another of those that just boggle the mind....It is just so hard to understand that this girl has not been identifed. Her movements in the days and weeks before her death have been traced, and LE have even spoken to people in MD who had met her...
If anyone is travelling through the Blairstown, NJ area, I recommend stopping by the memorial erected to this young lady...

http://www.poconorecord.com/special/doe/doe1.htm for more info on the investigation

I've even been wondering if there's a connection to the young lady found in Caledonia NYa couple of years earlier (this story has its own thread)....Simlar age, build, general description, both disposed of in similar ways...There's been a lot of speculation about the racing connection, and Blairstown is about 30 miles from Long Pond PA and the Pocono Raceway-and July is prime racing time.....

Fronkensteen
05-23-2005, 10:05 AM
This case has often been held up as a possible match to "Princess Doe":

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/129dfca.html (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/129dfca.html)

I am not sure if any DNA comparisons were done, or if she was ruled out in any other way.

Rachael
05-23-2005, 10:13 AM
I can see the similarities between the two (from the first post and the last post pictures). Did LE ever look into the possibility of the NJ body being the girl from CA?

Fronkensteen
05-23-2005, 10:34 AM
I can see the similarities between the two (from the first post and the last post pictures). Did LE ever look into the possibility of the NJ body being the girl from CA?
Thanks for your reply. It's been investigated, but I'm not sure if they were ever able to rule her out one way or the other.

Rachael
05-23-2005, 10:36 AM
Thanks for your reply. I believe it's been investigated, but I'm not sure if they were ever able to rule her out one way or the other.


It says they have dental records for the girl from CA. I would think there is someway to identify the body.

Fronkensteen
05-23-2005, 10:42 AM
It says they have dental records for the girl from CA. I would think there is someway to identify the body.You're right. However, I believe the results of the dental comparisons were inconclusive, meaning they couldn't definitively prove whether Diane was or wasn't Princess Doe.

sharon25
05-23-2005, 12:46 PM
You're right. However, I believe the results of the dental comparisons were inconclusive, meaning they couldn't definitively prove whether Diane was or wasn't Princess Doe.
how odd,

I also thought that a woman name Diane (different than this Diane) looked similar to the
remains of the Jane Doe found in Caledonia NY.

Could that just be a coincidence?

shadowangel
05-23-2005, 12:48 PM
In '99, DNA testing was conducted on Princess Doe, attempting a match to Diane Dye-the results were "inconlcusive". At one time, it was thought that she may have been an early victim of Joel Rifkin, the serial killer of 17 prostitutes in NY. However, no connection could be established. There were also several unsolved murders along I-80 during that time frame, indicating the possibility of an as-yet unknown serial killer at work.

HesterMofet
05-23-2005, 07:07 PM
I'm thinking that given the age range for Princess Doe -- 14-18, she must've been in the latter half of that range. If she died in 82 and had been working since 79, that would make her 11 or 12 when she started work if she was 14 when she died. Highly unlikely unless she was an extremely mature child. When I was 12 I looked 16, but certainly didn't act it. My bet is that she was 17 or 18, just given the time span for working.

Make sense?

Mullins
07-05-2005, 01:19 PM
I think I found a couple of the I 80 homocides you referred to---but do you have a list by chance? I would be interested to research further. If not that's ok I can continue to look....

I've noticed several in Montmouth County also. Blunt force traumas that might be comparable to Princess Doe's. Do you know if the ones along I 80 were gunshots or blunt force---or other?


In '99, DNA testing was conducted on Princess Doe, attempting a match to Diane Dye-the results were "inconlcusive". At one time, it was thought that she may have been an early victim of Joel Rifkin, the serial killer of 17 prostitutes in NY. However, no connection could be established. There were also several unsolved murders along I-80 during that time frame, indicating the possibility of an as-yet unknown serial killer at work.

shadowangel
07-06-2005, 01:47 PM
I think I found a couple of the I 80 homocides you referred to---but do you have a list by chance? I would be interested to research further. If not that's ok I can continue to look....

I've noticed several in Montmouth County also. Blunt force traumas that might be comparable to Princess Doe's. Do you know if the ones along I 80 were gunshots or blunt force---or other?
Here are a few of the missing/unidentified's I found, there are more. I looked for possibles that were either located within a few miles of I-80 (NJ/PA) or missing from towns on I-80.
1976-white female found under I-80, White Haven PA strangled, shot in neck, dismembered and remains placed in suitcases
1978-Joanne Williams, missing from Scranton PA-car found on street near I-380, an I-80 to I-81 connector
1982-"Princess Doe", found in Blairstown NJ
1990-partial skeleton of 20-30 year old white female found in Wayne NJ, believed deceased in 1985
1990-15-22 year old white female found, Monroe PA, blunt force trauma
1991-"Tiger Lady", so named for tiger tatoo on leg, found Warren City NJ
1992-remains of 30-40 year old white female found dismembered, bagged and in suitcase, in Hackensack NJ
2002-remains of white female, 22-32 years old, found in Denville NJ
2004-Sherry Gallagher, 40 years old, missing from Wharton, NJ
2005-Marrissa Schiffert, 17, missing from Dumont NJ

I-80 connects with I-95, the "East Coast Highway", near Ft Lee NJ (just across the Hudson from NYC). It then travels west, crossing PA.

Mullins
07-14-2005, 09:14 AM
This will be helpful thanks so much


Here are a few of the missing/unidentified's I found, there are more. I looked for possibles that were either located within a few miles of I-80 (NJ/PA) or missing from towns on I-80.
1976-white female found under I-80, White Haven PA strangled, shot in neck, dismembered and remains placed in suitcases
1978-Joanne Williams, missing from Scranton PA-car found on street near I-380, an I-80 to I-81 connector
1982-"Princess Doe", found in Blairstown NJ
1990-partial skeleton of 20-30 year old white female found in Wayne NJ, believed deceased in 1985
1990-15-22 year old white female found, Monroe PA, blunt force trauma
1991-"Tiger Lady", so named for tiger tatoo on leg, found Warren City NJ
1992-remains of 30-40 year old white female found dismembered, bagged and in suitcase, in Hackensack NJ
2002-remains of white female, 22-32 years old, found in Denville NJ
2004-Sherry Gallagher, 40 years old, missing from Wharton, NJ
2005-Marrissa Schiffert, 17, missing from Dumont NJ

I-80 connects with I-95, the "East Coast Highway", near Ft Lee NJ (just across the Hudson from NYC). It then travels west, crossing PA.

Mullins
07-17-2005, 12:54 PM
I think so too and it looks like her manager/supervisor from Harrison Hall at Ocean City could have given some more details about that. I wonder if they did...I started a thread a while back on two girls that were missing runaways from Nashville TN (Shannon Elmore and Tanya Rogers) and the picture I have of Shannon from the newspaper looks so much like the computer generated composite of Princess Doe. I know it's a longshot but I would love to go back and research further --- haven't made it back to the TN Library and Archives though.


I'm thinking that given the age range for Princess Doe -- 14-18, she must've been in the latter half of that range. If she died in 82 and had been working since 79, that would make her 11 or 12 when she started work if she was 14 when she died. Highly unlikely unless she was an extremely mature child. When I was 12 I looked 16, but certainly didn't act it. My bet is that she was 17 or 18, just given the time span for working.

Make sense?

smile22
07-17-2005, 07:44 PM
they said the dentals were inconclusive do they have dna on the california girl? that they could match up to princess doe?

coco
07-18-2005, 01:52 PM
On a website it says that just the top half Princess Doe was found. Anyone know if thats right? I didn't think it was.

shadowangel
07-18-2005, 08:32 PM
I know the site you're talking about, the site took some freedom with the facts (the statement about only half of her being found was based on the reconstruction of Princess Doe,from the waist up). It also confused Princess Doe with another unidentified female found nearby, confirmed to be a victim of Joel Rifkin (the victim's head was found in a bucket on a golf course, her lower torso found nearby some time later). Known only as "Susie", she is believed to be a prostitute from NYC. Her identity is still unknown.

coco
07-19-2005, 04:09 AM
It also confused Princess Doe with another unidentified female found nearby, confirmed to be a victim of Joel Rifkin (the victim's head was found in a bucket on a golf course, her lower torso found nearby some time later). Known only as "Susie", she is believed to be a prostitute from NYC. Her identity is still unknown.

Was "Susie" the one who was supposed to have had AIDS? Or did I read that wrong?

shadowangel
07-19-2005, 06:15 AM
"Was "Susie" the one who was supposed to have had AIDS? Or did I read that wrong?"

Yes, "Susie" was HIV positive.

Mullins
07-19-2005, 11:55 AM
Which do you believe is the more accurate pictorial account of Princess Doe, the bust or the computer generated composite? I feel the latter, but appreciate the efforts put into constructing the bust. The bust does look like the image of someone who would've been older than the range of Princess Doe too IMO. What do you think?

coco
07-20-2005, 06:09 AM
Were investigators able to find out if " Princess doe" had been sexually assualted or anything in that nature? Actually if they were able to determine if she had been sexually active full stop may be able to rule out her having been a prostitute, as had been speculated.

Mullins
07-29-2005, 08:58 AM
I don't know if they collected evidence such as a rape kit, but I would say that they did due to the fact that she was found partially clothed. It would be helpful to know if LE suspected or determined sexual assault.

shadowangel
08-05-2005, 11:22 AM
I'm just curious...Has Leah Van Schoick ever been looked at as a possible match to Princess Doe? She was reported as having last been seen in August of '82, however she was reported to have been living with a biker, so the accuracy of the information may be suspect. The age and general appearance is correct...and her family is from New Jersey. A possible scenario...she leaves the boyfriend to return home (or is working her way home, or simply wants to hide in familiar surroundings), and he catches up to her...this would explain the savagery of the beating which killed her.

The MD information has never been confirmed, and members of LE disagree as to whether or not Princess Doe was ever there.

Here is her Charley Project page:
http://charleyproject.org/cases/v/vanschoick_leah.html

Just thinking out loud.

mere
08-05-2005, 04:44 PM
It looks really good, but the time does not match up.

shadowangel
08-05-2005, 06:38 PM
Yeah, I know, this was a long-shot...I came across Schoick while checking out something entirely different. Not just the appearance, but the fact that she is originally from NJ caught my eye. There is just so little reported in the Schoick case, but from what little I can find I don't think she was in close contact with her family (17 and living in FL with a biker?) Could be, in my scenario, the boyfriend kills her in NJ in July, returns to FL, and a few weeks later starts asking around about her...I don't think she was hanging with a politically correct crowd.

coco
08-08-2005, 05:34 AM
Shadowangel, this is definently more then worth looking into. Well done, good sleuthing! http://websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

mere
08-08-2005, 09:48 AM
I agree! Can someone from the Doenetwork look to see if this has been checked?

shadowangel
08-09-2005, 10:50 PM
I forwarded all the info I could find on Ms. Schoick to the NJ State Police (since they are listed as the LE entity investigating her disappearance, they should have more info than I do!)

I detailed my scenario of what possibly occured. I will update with any response I receive.

Mullins
08-10-2005, 01:40 PM
Earlier I asked the question of opinion as to whether folks on WS think that the bust or the computer generated composite more closely resembles Princess Doe. You found someone who resembles both.

Sure hope it pans out and I'll keep my fingers crossed.

shadowangel
08-25-2005, 10:46 AM
Other than an automated e-mail response, I've heard nothing from the NJ state police. Does anyone recommend that I try again? I even included a link to Ms. Schoick's Charley Project page to make things easier for them. If they have already checked into and ruled out this possibility, is it too much for me to expect that they let me know this?

Richard
08-25-2005, 10:54 AM
Other than an automated e-mail response, I've heard nothing from the NJ state police. Does anyone recommend that I try again? I even included a link to Ms. Schoick's Charley Project page to make things easier for them. If they have already checked into and ruled out this possibility, is it too much for me to expect that they let me know this?
If you don't get some sort of reply after a week or so, I would resend your initial message and ask for them to contact you.

amandab
08-25-2005, 10:54 AM
Other than an automated e-mail response, I've heard nothing from the NJ state police. Does anyone recommend that I try again? I even included a link to Ms. Schoick's Charley Project page to make things easier for them. If they have already checked into and ruled out this possibility, is it too much for me to expect that they let me know this?

ShadowAngel-

I haven't followed this case before, and having read through the notes here, and comparing the photos you have shown, I would DEFINITELY keep after the NJ police.

The resemblance is stunning.

-Amanda

gardenmom
08-25-2005, 02:05 PM
Are there any pictures of her jewelry? The way they describe them sounds like they are nice pieces, like something a parent would give a teen.

I am also confused as to why they didn't question the suspect from the cemetary. Bad police work on that one, I'm afraid. They need to find him and question him.

Also, was it shadowangel, you should forward your information on to the Vidocq society. It sounds like they can look into this for you if the police are not responding.

Richard
08-26-2005, 08:10 AM
Are there any pictures of her jewelry? The way they describe them sounds like they are nice pieces, like something a parent would give a teen....
If you go to my origional post in this thread and select the link, you will be connected with NCMEC's poster of the girl. Next, use your screen controls to move to the right of her photo, and you will see more photos, including two of the chain and cross that she was wearing.

shadowangel
09-20-2005, 07:41 PM
Still nothing from the NJ State Police, their UID section hasn't been updated since early July...

I did e-mail Doe Network today, the local Director was very quick in getting back to me. She said the discprepancy in the timeline could be explained by her situation, that the match had not yet been checked by the Doe Network, and that she would forward the information to Gerry Nance at NCMEC.
I'll keep ya posted.....

shadowangel
10-29-2005, 12:45 PM
Bumping an updating, I will be in the area again later this week and plan to stop by Princess Doe's memorial. If I can get some pics, I will post them.

I have heard nothing new on the possible match. The NJ State Police website section on missing/UIDs has finally been updated. I e-mailed and called again, but still haven't gotten any response to my messages.

Aggravating, to say the least...I have heard from others who have also experienced a seeming lack of concern on the part of some LE. The websites say they need our help, but no one seems to want it. Even a response stating the matches have already been looked into or that there is some obvious (and legimate) reason that the match is not possible would be appreciated.

shadowangel
11-03-2005, 12:49 PM
I HAVE HAD IT. HERE IS THE LEARNED RESPONSE FROM THE NJ STATE POLICE.

Mark,

Unfortunately this is not a match due to the dates:
Leah was last seen on August 15, 1982 in Florida.
The Unidentified was recovered in NJ on July 15, 1982 a month prior to her disappearance.

LIKE I DIDN'T ADDRESS THIS IN MY E-MAIL! SHE WAS DATING A BIKER WHO LE BELIEVE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR DISAPPEARANCE!!!! GEE, HE AND HIS FRIENDS WOULDN'T HAVE REASON TO LIE ABOUT THE DATE!!!!!!!!!!!

docwho3
11-03-2005, 01:11 PM
I HAVE HAD IT. HERE IS THE LEARNED RESPONSE FROM THE NJ STATE POLICE.

Mark,

Unfortunately this is not a match due to the dates:
Leah was last seen on August 15, 1982 in Florida.
The Unidentified was recovered in NJ on July 15, 1982 a month prior to her disappearance.

LIKE I DIDN'T ADDRESS THIS IN MY E-MAIL! SHE WAS DATING A BIKER WHO LE BELIEVE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR DISAPPEARANCE!!!! GEE, HE AND HIS FRIENDS WOULDN'T HAVE REASON TO LIE ABOUT THE DATE!!!!!!!!!!!Sounds as if someone skimmed through without reading the details. Maybe try again?

shadowangel
11-03-2005, 01:27 PM
I waited months the first time without any response. Then I resubmitted, to get this thoughtful and well investigated response weeks later. I also submitted this match to the Doe Network, the director I dealt with was much more receptive, I'll wait to see if anything happens there.

Auggie21
11-03-2005, 03:09 PM
What about NCMEC?

NCMEC Cold Case Review Unit at 1-877-446-2632, ext. 6235 or 6295

vanillasky
11-03-2005, 03:14 PM
Hang in there shadowangel.... I think you have a very good lead going there.... typical of someone to just skim over and not really READ what you said. :furious:

Marilynilpa
11-03-2005, 04:56 PM
I waited months the first time without any response. Then I resubmitted, to get this thoughtful and well investigated response weeks later. I also submitted this match to the Doe Network, the director I dealt with was much more receptive, I'll wait to see if anything happens there.
It seems LE isn't always as interested in solving cold cases as they like to appear.

Just because the dates don't match certainly shouldn't rule out this being a match - if the last person to see her is also the likeliest murder suspect, you'd think LE would take that into consideration. He may have said it happened on August 15th because he has an alibi for that date!!:doh:

I admire your persistence, and understand your frustration!

Richard
11-26-2005, 12:17 AM
I mentioned in my origional post about "Princess Doe" that her dental charts were compared with those of Emma Vaughn's and found to not be a match, but I thought that I would include my earlier post on Emma here for comparison's sake. Note how close in age, height, description, dates of disappearance, etc everything is. Also look at the photos. This is an example of how close something might seem, yet no match.

---------------------------------------------------------------
EMMA LORENE VAUGHN missing 10 July 1982 Orlando, FL
EMMA LORENE VAUGHN
Case Type: Endangered Missing
DOB: Nov 10, 1967
Sex: Female
Race: White
Height: 5'3" (160 cm)
Weight: 114 lbs (52 kg)
Hair Color: Brown
Eye Color: Blue
Age when first missing: 14
Age Now: 36
Missing Date: Jul 10, 1982
Missing City: ORLANDO
Missing State : FL
Missing Country: United States
Case Number: NCMC905680

Circumstances: Emma, age 14, was last seen walking down Robinson Street in Orlando, Florida. She may have been seen in the general area after that time, but her whereabouts are currently unknown. When she was last seen her left front tooth was chipped and she had a tendency to bite her fingernails.

Link:
http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...earchLang=en_US (http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewPoster&caseNum=905680&orgPrefix=NCMC&searchLang=en_US)

shadowangel
11-26-2005, 12:22 AM
Another one from Florida...I'm still fuming over the NJ state police just blowing off the Van Schoick lead.

Something about Emma's chipped tooth sure rings a bell...Have to think on that a while, but I definitely remember reading about an unknown female with a chipped tooth.

PonderingThings
01-08-2006, 10:50 AM
Shadowangel I understand your frustration! It would seem as if this is a "perfect" match (except for the date last seen), based on the information we have to work with.

As you have pointed out, sometimes things look really good and then are proven to be not a match.

I think sometimes its because we only have limited information to deal with. In this case its possible the person that reported seeing her last is NOT her boyfriend, instead its someone with more credibility (such as a doctor or a social worker). Its possible it was that person who put her on a bus to New Jersey (just wild speculation on my part here) as she wanted out. We don't even know if she was planning to leave Florida.

Since New Jersey State Police are investigating BOTH cases, perhaps there is other, non released information, that points to a no match. The response could have been worded better, but maybe it was worded that way just so they wouldn't reveal any other evidence (such as who a strong witness is).

I, for one, do appreciate all your efforts on behalf of this Jane Doe and Leah. Being unofficial sleuths though does mean we have to deal with the very real possibility that the limited information has led us astray. It also means that all we can do is turn over the information to the authorities and let them decide if its worth pursueing.

Have you ever heard back from the Doe Network on this case?

PonderingThings
01-08-2006, 11:42 AM
In case there is more than the date eliminating Leah here is another long shot I found.

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/219dfco.html

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/36UFNJ.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/MBlee2.jpg


http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/36UFNJ1.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/MBlee.jpg

Jane doe on left, Marie Blee on right

1. I think both the photo and reconstruction look like Marie.
2. Marie disappeared in November 1979, Princess Doe may have started work in Maryland in 1979 - appears to match, does anyone know when in 1979 Princess Doe may have worked in Maryland?
3. Marie was 15 when she disappeared, but would have been 18 in 1982, Princess Doe was estimated to be 14-20, that's a match.
4. Marie is listed as 5'3" - Princess Doe is 5'2"-5'4" - that's a match.
5. Marie had blonde hair, Princess Doe is listed as brown hair - a discrepancy but the photos do look to be a similiar hair color.
6. Marie disappeared from Colorado, Princess Doe was found in New Jersey - according to google that is 1,943 mi (about 1 day 9 hours). Although I usually take the distance into consideration, in this case, I don't think its an issue - if she ran away.
7. Although authorities originally thought Marie had run away, her parents are convinced that she would not. It is speculation, but I think it is possible that she saw a crime committed at the party and RAN. Her friend/date for that evening was arrested for trying to extort a ransom from Marie's parents, one week later. Who knows what else the people who attended the party were up to.
8. Law enforcement formed a task force and search for Marie in multiple places. It appears they are convinced her body is nearby. Is it possible they can't find her because she was in New Jersey?

Ms Suzanne
01-08-2006, 11:44 AM
Hi
There is another Jane doe found on 80 in 1993 in Elko Nevada.

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/125ufnv.html

I believe a family member said.Leah Jean VanShock was ruled out as Pricess Doe with DNA.

suzanne

PonderingThings
01-08-2006, 12:08 PM
Another possible match

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1351dfwa.html (http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1351dfwa.html)

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/36UFNJ.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/AMMeeker.jpg


http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/36UFNJ1.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/AMMeeker1.jpg

Princess Doe left, Angela Mae Meeker on right

1. I think both the photo and reconstruction look like Angela.
2. Angela disappeared in July 1979, Princess Doe may have started work in Maryland in 1979 - appears to match, does anyone know when in 1979 Princess Doe may have worked in Maryland? 13 is very young to have gotten a job, but then, they knew she worked under several aliases, and had a history of running away - this might indicate "street smart" - so for now that's a possibility.
3. Angela had just turned 13 when she disappeared, but would have been 16 in 1982, Princess Doe was estimated to be 14-20, that's a match.
4. Angela is listed as 5'2" - Princess Doe is 5'2"-5'4" - that's a match.
5. Angela had dark blonde hair, Princess Doe is listed as brown hair - a discrepancy but Princess Doe does appear to have very light colored hair. Hard to say how dark Angela's hair was from the provided photos.
6. Angela disappeared from Tacoma, Washington. Princess Doe was found in New Jersey - according to google that is 2,875 mi (about 1 day 23 hours). Although I usually take the distance into consideration, in this case, I don't think its an issue - if she ran away.
7. LE originally believed that Angela ran away, as she had a history of running away. LE did not formally list Angela as a missing person until 2 years later.

mjak
01-08-2006, 02:51 PM
What about this person
Maria Florence Anjiras Case file 1032DFCT Doe Network.
for some reason I can't attach the link here. sorry. maybe someone else can do it.
This person has been missing since 1976, but we know Princess Doe was around for many years prior to her death. As she was known to we working in Maryland and other locations. Maria was 14 when she dissapeared.

Mjak

PonderingThings
01-08-2006, 03:27 PM
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1032dfct.htm (http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1032dfct.htm)

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/36UFNJ.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/MFAnjiras.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/36UFNJ1.jpg
Princess Doe on left and right, Maria in center

Maria Florence Anjiras
Missing since February 12, 1976 from Norwalk, Fairfield County, Connecticut.
Classification: Endangered Runaway

Vital Statistics

* Date Of Birth: August 10, 1961
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 14 years old
* Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5' 6" - 168 cm; 120 lbs - 54 kg
* Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; blue eyes.

***************
1. Princess Doe looks like the photo of Maria
2. Princess Doe is 2" shorter than Maria
3. They both have brown hair
4 Age is a match-Maria would have been 21 in 1982-1 year older than the estimate for Princess Doe.
5. She was a runaway so its possible she was in New Jersey, from Connecticut.

I think this is a very good one mjak!

Only problem is, with the height being off by only 2", would that have been enough for nobody to have matched this up before?

mjak
01-08-2006, 03:32 PM
the height difference is the one thing that made me doubt the match. However,
2 inches is not enough of a difference to make me disinclude the match. I think
it bears checking out. We also know that Maria was a known runaway. This fits with what we know about Princess Doe pior to her death.

mjak

PonderingThings
01-22-2006, 03:01 PM
The Doe Network has added a new image to her page
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/36UFNJ3.jpg

So is/has anyone submitted the suggestions we have come up with to LE?

I would be happy to send an email to check out this thread, with the names of the possible matches listed. Has anyone done this yet?

mjak
01-22-2006, 04:24 PM
I have not sent my suggested match into doe Network. I would be pleased
if you would send it in. I actually have no idea how to send it in. I think the new profile picture looks even more like Marias picture.

thanks
mjak

PonderingThings
01-22-2006, 04:51 PM
Mjak I am not a Doe Network member. I usually send the tips into law enforcement directly, or sometimes through CrimeStoppers if email is not available for law enforcement (it is in this case).

I'll send an email, with a link to this thread, and a listing of the possible match names (with referencing case numbers) next weekend unless I hear an objection.

docwho3
01-22-2006, 05:24 PM
Does anyone recognize the logo on the skirt as belonging to a restaurant or INN?
That seems pretty distinctive to me.

I have (had - I gave them to in-laws) a set of of measuring spoons made to look like geese.

dkeene8
01-26-2006, 04:29 PM
i think the goose are actually peacocks, that style skirt (we called them "peasant" skirts) and tshirt were pretty normal wear for teenagers back then, especially in ocean city where it's said that she had worked. i lived in maryland up until 1980 and spent alot of time in ocean city, and there were alot of "hippish" people there, lots of runaways too, cause it was such a cool place to go and hide if you needed to.

PonderingThings
02-05-2006, 11:43 AM
The Doe Network has updated the Unidentified girls page once again - but I don't see what was changed.

I haven't submitted anything yet to the authorities because the Doe Network pages, for my possible matches, are sometimes unavailable, and sometimes unavailable (not just the photos). I don't know if its because of bandwidth problems or something else, so I'm going to give it a little bit to see if it gets worked out...

Hollow
02-18-2006, 10:12 AM
http://www.vidocq.org/doe/doe4.html

ihadcabinfever
04-01-2006, 01:29 AM
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/125ufnv.html


http://www.troopers.state.ny.us/Wanted_and_Missing/Missing/view.cfm?ID=12


Height and weight are good
eyecolor and hair color is off
age is good

ihadcabinfever
04-01-2006, 01:40 AM
This girl was coming north

Missing: Judith E. O'Donnell NIC #M598318205 http://content.troopers.state.ny.us/GetPhoto.aspx?PhotoID=63http://content.troopers.state.ny.us/GetPhoto.aspx?PhotoID=64 Basic InformationRace:WhiteSex:FemaleDOB:April 28, 1961Height:5'10" Weight:140 poundsEyes:BlueHair:BrownAdditional InformationLast Seen:Date: November 30, 1980
Time: Unknown
Location: Baltimore, Maryland Miscellaneous:O'Donnell had a bus ticket to return to her residence in the Greenwich Village area of New York City.

http://www.troopers.state.ny.us/Wanted_and_Missing/Missing/view.cfm?ID=12

I dont know if I was allowed to post pic I didnt mean to.

shadowangel
04-01-2006, 08:16 AM
That is interesting...Remember the Ocean City MD tie with Princess Doe.

anthrobones
04-01-2006, 11:09 AM
I got this when trying to go to the link Pondering posted:



Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /cases/images/36UFNJ3.jpg on this server.





Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request. Apache/1.3.33 Server at www.doenetwork.us Port 80Huh

PonderingThings
04-01-2006, 11:20 AM
The Doe Network has been experiencing bandwidth problems. For some reason these links seem to be strongly affected. I don't know why.

lilsister
06-02-2006, 08:50 PM
I definately think that all of the possible matches were VERY plausible. I am going to know re-cap because it is hard to keep track of each poss match, if you don't mind :) . Here is the list:

Diane Dye-missing from San Jose Calif--13 yr old, 5'2 110 lbs; last seen July 30, 1979--DNA comparison btwn Doe and Dye was done and result inconclusive---am i correct? (DNA is usually pretty acurate)

Leah Van Schoick-ranaway with a biker to Plantation Fl, but her parents reside in NJ; age 17, 5'5 , 125 lbs, last seen (according to whom???--the bikers?) August 15, 1982--this was dismissed due to conflicting dates; Doe was found July 15, 1982--still could potentially be a match esp. considering the source of who last saw her--can we verify this?

EMMA LORENE VAUGHN- missing 10 July 1982 Orlando, FL; 14 yr old 5'3 114 lbs--according to the DoeNetwork--Vaughn was last seen walking down Robinson Street in Orlando, Florida. She was known to frequent South Orange Blossom Trail and South Street in Orlando. She was rumored to have last been seen in 1983. She was a prostitute and stripper. She had been seen with labor pool workers, and was rumored to have gone to Tennessee with a gas station attendant. Her family lives in Missouri.
Again, this is a rumored sighting. Still a potential match IMO

Marie Blee- missing since November 21, 1979 from Craig Colorado; 15 yr old, 5'3 100 lbs--classified as Endangered Missing ---supposedly took ride home from a stranger never to return (could have poss runaway I suppose). Another very strong match--no comparison done as far as I know

Angela May Meeker- missing since July 7, 1979 from Tacoma Washington (also where the Green River Killer was active--although most of his victims were prostitutes but you never know);13 yr old 5'2 109 lbs--Another possible match

Maria Anjiras- missing since February 12 1976 from Norwalk, Conneticut; age 14 , 5'6 ,120 lbs--classified as Endangered Runaway--Another strong match

I will post this and then do some more research...I think we are about to be hit w/ lightning storms.

lilsister
06-03-2006, 02:59 PM
Okay, so Princess Doe was located on July 15, 1982 in Blairstown, NJ and the estimated date of death was approx 4 days previous. (I know I am re-stating what we already know but it helps to keep details out there). The cause of death was blunt force trauma to the head--so brutal, in fact, that her face remained beyond recognition---this could possibly suggest a crime of passion due to the fact that there was so much violence. Then, again, the perp might just be trying to disfigure his/her victim so that there would be no identification possible. Her estimated age is 14-18 years old and approx height 5'2 to 5'4; approx weight 90 to 100 lbs. We all know very well that the height and weight categories could differ somewhat significantly from what is proposed...that's why I think you all came up with some great possible matches. She could be from anywhere in the US, if she was a runaway, so the state of residence does not really matter. I am currently checking out other possible matches to our Princess Doe. I just want, more than anything, to have her identified so that she can have the proper burial that she deserves.

I clipped this from an article about P Doe in the Pocono Record Day:



For example, forensic reports told him that the corpse had no broken bones, so missing-person reports where the victims had once had broken bones were ruled out automatically. Then, Kranz said, he learned that some young people's bones mend in such a way that it is nearly impossible to tell that they were once broken. Hence, he said, some of the missing-person reports may had been valuable after all.


That is why we can't just jump to certain conclusions--ie. broken bones...its not her...went missing a month after body discovered... its not her etc.

Ms Suzanne
06-03-2006, 06:43 PM
Hi

quote:
EMMA LORENE VAUGHN- missing 10 July 1982 Orlando, FL; 14 yr old 5'3 114 lbs--according to the DoeNetwork--Vaughn was last seen walking down Robinson Street in Orlando, Florida. She was known to frequent South Orange Blossom Trail and South Street in Orlando. She was rumored to have last been seen in 1983. She was a prostitute and stripper. She had been seen with labor pool workers, and was rumored to have gone to Tennessee with a gas station attendant. Her family lives in Missouri.
Again, this is a rumored sighting. Still a potential match IMO


Can you please tell me more on the Gas station attendant.Name?Where ect....anything you can tell me.My sister came up missing in 1983.

suzanne

lilsister
06-03-2006, 07:55 PM
Hi Suzannec4444,

Are you the sister of Tammy Lynn Leppert?--I have seen your other posts re: Tammy. I do not have specific info re the gas station attendent but I will try very hard to find out what I can. I am so sorry for everything you are going through ...prayers for Tammy, you and the rest of your family.:( Following is the Charley Project bio re your sister---everyone should click on the links to see her beautiful face and possibly identify her whereabouts:

Tammy Lynn Leppert

http://www.charleyproject.org/images/l/leppert_tammy.jpg http://www.charleyproject.org/images/l/leppert_tammy2.jpg http://www.charleyproject.org/images/l/leppert_tammy3.jpg
http://www.charleyproject.org/images/l/leppert_tammy4.jpg http://www.charleyproject.org/images/l/leppert_tammy5.jpg http://www.charleyproject.org/images/l/leppert_tammy6.jpg
http://www.charleyproject.org/images/l/leppert_tammy7.jpg http://www.charleyproject.org/images/l/leppert_tammy_ap.jpg http://www.charleyproject.org/images/l/leppert_tammy_ap2.jpg
Top Two rows and Bottom Right: Leppert, circa 1983;
Bottom center and left: Age-progressions to an unknown age

http://www.charleyproject.org/banners/bar.jpg

Vital Statistics at Time of DisappearanceMissing Since: July 6, 1983 from Rockledge, Florida
Classification: Endangered Missing
Date Of Birth: February 5, 1965
Age: 18 years old
Height and Weight: 5'4 - 5'5, 105 - 115 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: Curly blonde hair, hazel eyes. Leppert may spell her first name "Tammi." She occasionally uses Tammi and/or Tami-Lyn as stage names.
Clothing Description: A blue denim skirt, a light blue shirt with flower appliques on the shoulders, and flip-flops.
Medical Conditions: Leppert may have been three months pregnant at the time of her disappearance, but this has not been confirmed. She was apparently suffering from emotional problems at the time of her disappearance.


http://www.charleyproject.org/banners/bar.jpg

Details of DisappearanceLeppert left her family's home in Rockledge, Florida at 11:00 a.m. on July 6, 1983 with a male friend. Her friend later told authorities that he and Leppert had an argument while driving and that he left her standing in a parking lot outside the Glass Bank near an Exxon gasoline station in the vicinity of State Road A1A between 2nd Street North and 3rd Street North in Cocoa Beach, Florida.

Leppert carried a gray purse when she went missing. Many reports erroneously state that she was barefoot at the time of her disappearance. Her mother said she noticed Leppert had not combed her hair before leaving the house that day, which is very uncharacteristic of her; she usually spent considerable time on her appearance before going anywhere. At the time of her disappearance, Leppert was planning to go to California to act in some movies. She apparently never arrived there, however.

Investigators looked into the possibility that Leppert was attacked by Christopher Wilder, a man linked to at least a dozen disappearances, rapes, murders and/or attacks of women in the early to mid-1980s. Photos of Wilder are posted below this case summary. He frequented the Florida region at the time of Leppert's disappearance. He sometimes attempted to lure young female victims by offering non-existent "modeling sessions" or other tactics, which would have fit well into a scenario involving Leppert. She was a relatively known model who had won several titles and was an occasional actress, landing bit parts in the films Scarface and Spring Break, and she wanted to be an internationally famous star.

Wilder, whose history of violence towards women went back to his adolescent years, was put on probation in 1980 after pleading guilty to attempted sexual battery towards a teenage girl. While on a visit home to Australia that same year, he was charged with kidnapping and sexually assaulting two teenaged girls. His parents bailed him out of jail and he flew back to the United States, promising to return for his trial which was set for April 1984.

Wilder is a also a suspect in the Florida disappearances of Mary Opitz (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/o/opitz_mary.html), Colleen Orsborn (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/o/orsborn_colleen.html), Rosario Gonzales (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/gonzales_rosario.html), and Elizabeth Kenyon (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kenyon_elizabeth.html). He was killed during a shootout with authorities in 1984. Leppert's family filed a one-million-dollar lawsuit against Wilder before his death, but dropped the suit afterwards. Leppert's mother, modeling agent Linda Curtis, later stated that she never believed Wilder was involved in Leppert's disappearance. Police have never been able to link Wilder and Leppert and it may be coincidence that she disappeared at the same time he was targeting area models. He had a long history of sex crimes but did not begin his killing spree until a year after Leppert vanished.

John Crutchley, the so-called "Vampire Rapist," is also considered a possible suspect in Leppert's case. He received a life sentence in prison after kidnapping and raping a woman in Orlando, Florida and drinking her blood. Crutchley committed suicide in prison in 2002. He has never been linked to Leppert.

Curtis criticized the police for allegedly mishandling the investigation into Leppert's disappearance. Police initially believed she ran away, and some continue to think that foul play was not involved in her case. Curtis said her daughter was afraid of the man who last saw her, and that the individual was never properly investigated. Authorities say they did the best they could to find Leppert and the man she was last seen with has been interviewed is not a viable suspect in her case.

On June 1, a month before Leppert vanished, she began acting erratically at her home. She yelled and screamed and broke a window with a baseball bat. Curtis took Leppert to a mental health center for a 72-hour observation after she calmed down. Psychiatrists there could not find anything wrong with her. Curtis planned to get a therapist for Leppert, but she disappeared before that could be arranged.

Curtis believed that Leppert may have been kidnapped and murdered as a result of her knowledge of a large-scale drug and money laundering operation in Brevard, Florida. The operation allegedly involved many prominent local citizens. Leppert was reportedly afraid for her life because of what she knew. She stayed in her bedroom more than usual and refused to drink from open containers or eat from her own plate. Curtis claimed Leppert made a police report about what she knew, but investigators have no record of the report and do not espouse Curtis's theory.

Leppert's sister is still looking for her and believes her mother's theory about Leppert's disappearance. Curtis, who moved to Orlando, Florida, after her daugther's disappearance, died of a blood infection in 1995.

The missing persons organization Child Protection Education of America states that Leppert had no cavities or fillings at the time of her disappearance; however, this is unproven. Her dental records have been lost. Some agencies incorrectly state that Leppert's home is in Cocoa Beach, Florida.

http://www.charleyproject.org/images/w/wilder.jpg http://www.charleyproject.org/images/w/wilder2.jpg
Above Images: Wilder

http://www.charleyproject.org/banners/bar.jpg

Investigating Agency
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Cocoa Beach Police Department
407-868-3269
OR
321-868-3251
OR
Suzanne Leppert
Tammy Leppert's Sister
Suzannec4444@yahoo.com (Suzannec4444@yahoo.com)

http://www.charleyproject.org/banners/bar.jpg

Source Information
Christopher Wilder Biography (http://www.angelfire.com/oh/yodaspage/wilder.html)
The Child Seek Network (http://www.childseeknetwork.com/)
The National Center for Missing Adults (http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/)
The Doe Network (http://www.doenetwork.us/)
Tammy Lynn Leppert Missing Since July 6, 1983 (http://p208.ezboard.com/ficaremissingpersonscoldcasesfrm7.showMessage?topi cID=1.topic)
Missing Adults -- Missing Children (http://www.angelsmissing.com/)
Tammy Lynn Leppert is Missing (http://www.geocities.com/findtammy/)

http://www.charleyproject.org/banners/bar.jpg

Updated 2 times since October 12, 2004.

Last updated February 4, 2004. Charley Project Home (http://www.charleyproject.org/index.html)

I will do my best to keep searching for her, Paula in NJ.

lilsister
06-03-2006, 08:08 PM
Princess Doe was found in 1982, unless Tammy went missing a year or so earlier then there is no possible way PDoe could be Tammy. Please keep sleuthing for your sister....I know that if it was my sis I would not stop until I found the answer I was looking for...Good Luck to you>> and I , as well as the other websleuthers, will continue to search for your sister. God Bless Tammy, you and your family. I can't imagine what you are going through.

Sincerely,
Paula (aka Lil'sister)

Ms Suzanne
06-05-2006, 09:12 AM
Hi
Thankyou.you are sweet.I'm sorry.I did not think this was tammy.I wanted to know about emma vauhgn and the name of the gas station attendant she might have went off with and anything else you can find out.One rumor was tammy went off with a gas station attendent.Everything the charlie project has was from me and the website and board I dedicated to my sister.Please use tammy's website and if you have any information please only contact me at

suzannec4444@yahoo.com

http://www.geocities.com/findtammy/

Thankyou and God bless you

suzanne

lilsister
06-29-2006, 04:07 PM
Just wanted to bump this..

Pdoe
08-07-2006, 08:50 AM
Hello,

I am in the process of building a site to track current and factual information regarding the Princess Doe case. As part of that effort I am establishing a list of possible matches and I have included the names mentioned in this forum as well as other names that have come up over the years. Still a work in progress but you can check out the site at:

http://www.princessdoe.org/

Hopefully we can build some momentum behind this and get it back into the media. I'll also continue to monitor this thread on a regular basis and also post any updates.

Thank you

Pdoe
08-13-2006, 11:17 AM
Hello,

I am in the process of building a site to track current and factual information regarding the Princess Doe case. As part of that effort I am establishing a list of possible matches and I have included the names mentioned in this forum as well as other names that have come up over the years. Still a work in progress but you can check out the site at:

http://www.princessdoe.org/

Hopefully we can build some momentum behind this and get it back into the media. I'll also continue to monitor this thread on a regular basis and also post any updates.

Thank you
A list of possible matches has been posted on http://www.princessdoe.org/
This list was created using databases, monitoring web sites and from e-mailed tips. We will now start ruling people out and refine it.

Pdoe
09-21-2006, 07:24 AM
Just an FYI that the "possible matches" list has been updated on the website. A few possible matches have been added and a few have been ruled out. Please let me know if you think any more should be added.

http://www.princessdoe.org/

ihadcabinfever
09-22-2006, 01:22 PM
Just an FYI that the "possible matches" list has been updated on the website. A few possible matches have been added and a few have been ruled out. Please let me know if you think any more should be added.

http://www.princessdoe.org/


check your PM

annemc2
09-22-2006, 02:35 PM
Thanks for the info Pdoe. I have to say that the website is *very* well done and easy to follow. The information is thorough yet concise and the table of potential matches is outstanding. Great work! This may be the way to finally solve this case!

ihadcabinfever
09-25-2006, 12:15 AM
A longer list
Pa/NJ Brunette Women Missing 80's/90's

Pa. missing Brunette adults

Barbara Elizabeth Miller
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/601dfpa.html
Tracy Marie Kroh
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/19dfpa.html
Terry Slaugenhoupt
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/260dfpa.html
Brenda Louise Condon
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/166dfpa.html
Dawn Miller
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/602dfpa.html
Dawn Marie Mozino
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/899dfpa.html
Michele Fawcett
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2007dfpa.html
Carmen Ida Meirino
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2021dfpa.html
Lonene Ray Rogers
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1850dfpa.html
Anee Lillian Riggin
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1569dfpa.html
Shelley Diane Luty
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1463dfpa.html
Myra Manley
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2105dfpa.html

Unidentified Pa Brunettes 80'/90's

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/461ufpa.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/246ufpa.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/306ufpa.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/179ufpa.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/147ufpa.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/127ufpa.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/234ufpa.html


NJ Missing Brunette Adult women

Frances Morales
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/340dfnj.html
Renee Martine La Manna
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1103dfnj.html
Usha S. Lyer
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1262dfnj.html
Lisa Ann Schmit
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1713dfnj.html
Robin Trivisonno
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1885dfnj.html

Unidentified NJ Adult Brunette Women

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/252ufnj.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/436ufnj.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/266ufnj.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/36ufnj.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/248ufnj.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/121ufnj.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/47ufnj.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/149ufnj.html
http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/miss/ui_sussex_u640825556.html
http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/miss/ui_morris_u630003189.html identified


ny look alike
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/485ufpa.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1500dfny.html
pic on rt, looks like 1500
girl on left found first only photo found in hangar
pic expo 67?

ihadcabinfever
09-25-2006, 12:17 AM
A shorter list


Case File 260DFPA pa
Terry Slaugenhoupt
last seen at home after a date 1/6/1991
brenda louise condon pa
2/27/1991
last seen at bar working
dawn miller pa
9-10/1992
seen around
barbara miller
6/30/1989
last seen at wedding went home vanished
tracy marie kroh
last seen?Alex Acres Trailer Park off of Pennsylvania Route 147
nj
frances morales
Missing since April 4, 1990 from Bridgeton, Cumberland , New Jersey
Renee Martine LaManna
January 8, 1994 from Ocean City, Cape May County, New Jersey
last sighted at the Waterfront Bar in Somers Point, NJ
linda schmidt
October 2, 1994 from Harrison, Hudson County, New Jersey
last seen shopping
robin trivisonno
January 20, 1997 from Neptune Township, Monmouth County, New Jersey
last seen leaving the former Heartbreakers go-go bar
ny
karen louise wilson
March 27, 1985 from Albany, Albany County, New York
last seen leaving The Tanning Hut at 1670 Central Avenue in Colonie, NY on March 27, 1985

ihadcabinfever
09-25-2006, 12:20 AM
Case File 153DFFL
Jean Marie Stewart
Missing since March 25, 1980 from Miami Lakes, Dade County, Florida.
Classification: Endangered Missing
Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: April 6, 1963
Age at Time of Disappearance: 16 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'2; 110 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; brown eyes. Very small framed, but large busted.
Marks, Scars, Tattoos: Stewart has a scar on the underside of her right arm and a tattoo of a rose on her right upper arm.
Clothing: Stewart was last seen wearing jeans and a flowered shirt.
Dentals: She has protruding upper front teeth.

Circumstances of Disappearance
Stewart was last seen in Miami Lakes, Florida on March 25, 1980. She was standing outside a 7-11 convenience store in Cypress Village at the time. Stewart was scheduled, and had purchased a plane ticket, to return to Pittsburgh PA (her hometown!) for a family wedding. It is not known if she ever arrived at her supposed destination.
The night before she was to leave, her friends had a going away party for her. A friend picked her up to bring her back to the house when she wanted to stop at the convenience store. The friend went in to make her purchase, as she had already removed her shoes. He was inside only minutes (there were no other customers) and when he returned, she was gone. Her purse, shoes and money were all still in the car. She never returned to the house to get money, ticket or other belongings. Foul play is suspected in her disappearance.

note:Stewart was scheduled, and had purchased a plane ticket, to return to Pittsburgh PA (her hometown!)
Case File 587DFMD
Sheree Marie Magaro
Missing since February 22, 1987 from Kentmore Park, Kent County, Maryland.
Classification: Endangered Missing
Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: October 23, 1956
Age at Time of Disappearance: 30 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'3; 140 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; brown eyes.
Circumstances of Disappearance
Magaro was last seen departing a friend's residence in Kentmore Park, Maryland on February 22, 1987 at approximately 9:45 PM.
Magaro was driving her 1976 gray four-door Ford Torino at the time. She was planning to drive back to her home in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania that evening.
The night of her disappearance there was a severe snow storm in the area. On the next day her vehicle was found in a field 100 feet west of State Route 213, two and a half miles south of the Bohemia River Bridge, which is north of Cecilton.
Hair, blood and human tissue was found in the car which had been burned to destroy evidence.

ihadcabinfever
09-25-2006, 12:22 AM
Move the link to NY/PA if you can find it. Didn't it begin months ago somewhere else? I couldn't find it sorry.

ihadcabinfever
09-29-2006, 03:00 PM
I submitted this to doenetwork contact a while back and she checked and said it was ruled out by dental comparison

Brenda Louise Condon
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/166dfpa.html

Pa unidentified Doe

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/179ufpa.html


I was drawn to Brenda Condon when I first saw her pic. She reminds me of a friend I had when I was in high school.

You notice alot of cases around this time all seem the same ?

ihadcabinfever
09-29-2006, 03:15 PM
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/47ufnj.html
Tiger lady

If she was local woman I think most people went to Shotsys Tattoo in New Foundland NJ
maybe Captain Jacks rte 23 Butler NJ or Tattoo 46 in Dover NJ .

Tattoo 46
We are located at 310 HWY 46,
Dover NJ 07801
Only 3 minutes from Interstate 80, call for directions!!

Tattoo 46 Has been in operation since 1987. We are state approved and health department inspected.

We do all styles of tattooing, including traditional, old-school, new-school, tribal and celtic.

Shotzys Tattoo used to be in New Foundland NJ (HE used to live down the street) from me .

Captain Jacks

http://www.captainjackstattoos.com/

I don't know if they keep records. I bet they know if the artist has some kind of distinct way of recognizing his or her work.

Pdoe
12-14-2006, 08:54 PM
Just a quick update before the holiday. The list of possible matches currently posted on the website is being compared by LE. I will update any rule-outs as soon as I get the information. Should have some updates within the next few weeks. Thank you and happy holidays.

MacPlus512
12-15-2006, 12:48 AM
IHadCabinFever--good point about tattoo artists and their work. While I'm not a tattoo artist, I would probably be able to identify a picture I drew versus what someone else did even if the picture in question was 15+ years old.

A case in point came when I was cleaning my attic out and found a box of stuff from first grade. We used to make pencils for everyone out of paper for some reason. Some of the ones up there were from my buddies. There were also some I had made. I could tell who did what. Keep in mind I found the box in 2005 and the pencils were drawn during the 1993-1994 school year. The same was true of other artwork, as we all used to give little cards to each other.

If it's a parlor with more than one artist, however (I have no idea how tattoo parlors operate), I'd wonder if the guy who did it was still there. Given the evidence he would have done this between 1987 and 1991. If people come and go from tattoo parlors like they do from barber shops, that may have changed. Of the three barbers at my shop who have cut my hair since I was a lad, one has died, one has moved to another shop across town, and one is still there. (I don't go to this shop much anymore because I found another guy I like, but even at his shop he's lost a co-worker).

Anyway, since this thread was originally about Princess Doe, could it have been possible she was from Virginia or the Carolinas? I know there was suspicion that she worked at a hotel in Maryland, but could she have been a more local runaway, perhaps?

ihadcabinfever
12-15-2006, 12:43 PM
Anyway, since this thread was originally about Princess Doe, could it have been possible she was from Virginia or the Carolinas? I know there was suspicion that she worked at a hotel in Maryland, but could she have been a more local runaway, perhaps?

She could have been. Seems she must have been older to be able to move around and not be identified by now. I don't think she was 14 ish I think she had to be later teens.
I still am confused about her hair being blonde in the first pic and the later updated one shows her hair brown. Wasn't she only there in the graveyard a week?

Pdoe
12-20-2006, 09:35 PM
Just an FYI that the website has been updated with a few more ruleouts. Making progress and hopefully getting closer.

LionRun
12-20-2006, 10:20 PM
Hi all,

Regarding Princess Doe...are there currently or have there been suspects in her death? I am new here and just leanring to navigate the threads. Can someone point me to relevant links to Princess Doe and/or possible suspects? Thank you.

Pdoe
12-21-2006, 05:08 AM
Hi all,

Regarding Princess Doe...are there currently or have there been suspects in her death? I am new here and just leanring to navigate the threads. Can someone point me to relevant links to Princess Doe and/or possible suspects? Thank you.
There were people questioned in the case but no "official" suspects and no arrests to date. So far, most of the effort has been directed at identifying her.

LionRun
12-21-2006, 09:38 AM
Hi Pdoe,

I'm new on this forum and ran across this case. I understand that the main focus has been to identify Princess Doe. But, if it is okay I want to bring up what I remember about a serial killer in that area and two young women he was convicted of murdering.

James Koedatich at one time lived in Florida killed his roommate, went to prison, got out on parole, then moved to Morristown New Jersey.

In November of 1982, he abducted 18 year old, Parsippany Hills High School student, Amie Hoffman, at night, in the parking lot of the Morris County Mall where she was leaving to go home from her part-time job. He sexually assaulted her, and stabbed her to death. He left her body in some kind of pond (retention pond?) (I think?) somewhere in Morris County, which is close to Warren County.

In December of 1982 he abducted, sexually assaulted, then stabbed to death 25 year old Deirdre O'Brien. He left her for dead at a truck stop off Interstate 80 in Warren County. I think she died in a trucker's arms. I do not recall where she was abducted from.

As I recall James Koedatich was caught because he called the police to report that he was (pulled over? or stabbed?--very strange) by someone posing as a police officer. From there the police found evidence in his car of his gruesome acts.

From what I've read in the Princess Doe posts the one thing that may not fit is that Princess Doe was apparently killed by blunt force trauma, and Amie and Deirdre were stabbed. But the dates, locations, and victim types have my eyes open.

I remember this because I lived in Morris Plains/Parsippany, NJ back then. Some details are now fuzzy to me. But, I remember much of those days clearly. Girls and women in the area were terrified prior to that monster's capture. The Parsippany Hills Police Department conducted a safety seminar one Saturday. To this day I adhere to those things I learned. And so to now does my 18 year old daughter.

I wonder if LE has ever investigated Koedatich as a suspect in Princess Doe's murder. I believe Koedatich was sentenced to death. I have no idea of the outcome in that respect.

I don't mean to shift focus away from learning Princess Doe's identity. And there is probably only a slim chance that the cases are related. But; if they are related, more may be learned about Princess Doe's identity based on what is known about victims of the same killer.

Long shot at best. What are your thoughts?

Pdoe
12-28-2006, 08:06 AM
Hi Pdoe,

I'm new on this forum and ran across this case. I understand that the main focus has been to identify Princess Doe. But, if it is okay I want to bring up what I remember about a serial killer in that area and two young women he was convicted of murdering.

James Koedatich at one time lived in Florida killed his roommate, went to prison, got out on parole, then moved to Morristown New Jersey.

In November of 1982, he abducted 18 year old, Parsippany Hills High School student, Amie Hoffman, at night, in the parking lot of the Morris County Mall where she was leaving to go home from her part-time job. He sexually assaulted her, and stabbed her to death. He left her body in some kind of pond (retention pond?) (I think?) somewhere in Morris County, which is close to Warren County.

In December of 1982 he abducted, sexually assaulted, then stabbed to death 25 year old Deirdre O'Brien. He left her for dead at a truck stop off Interstate 80 in Warren County. I think she died in a trucker's arms. I do not recall where she was abducted from.

As I recall James Koedatich was caught because he called the police to report that he was (pulled over? or stabbed?--very strange) by someone posing as a police officer. From there the police found evidence in his car of his gruesome acts.

From what I've read in the Princess Doe posts the one thing that may not fit is that Princess Doe was apparently killed by blunt force trauma, and Amie and Deirdre were stabbed. But the dates, locations, and victim types have my eyes open.

I remember this because I lived in Morris Plains/Parsippany, NJ back then. Some details are now fuzzy to me. But, I remember much of those days clearly. Girls and women in the area were terrified prior to that monster's capture. The Parsippany Hills Police Department conducted a safety seminar one Saturday. To this day I adhere to those things I learned. And so to now does my 18 year old daughter.

I wonder if LE has ever investigated Koedatich as a suspect in Princess Doe's murder. I believe Koedatich was sentenced to death. I have no idea of the outcome in that respect.

I don't mean to shift focus away from learning Princess Doe's identity. And there is probably only a slim chance that the cases are related. But; if they are related, more may be learned about Princess Doe's identity based on what is known about victims of the same killer.

Long shot at best. What are your thoughts?
Sorry for the delay in responding to this post. I have heard the name Koedatich mentioned a few times but I honestly do not know if he was ever questioned about Princess Doe. I can certainly try and find out though, the dates do seem to match up (depending on when he moved there.) It would be helpful if we could find a time line. Do you know of any sites that discuss his crimes? I have been putting most of my effort into the identity so far but certainly finding out who committed the crime might answer a lot of questions about the victim. Let me do some research and thank you for your contribution.

Sundayrain
12-28-2006, 08:30 AM
Deirdre was driving home in Morris Plains/Mt. Freedom area.....Koeditich followed her. It was at a time when we were all afraid of traveling in that area. Afraid to go to that Mall, in Morris Plains after Ammie was taken and murdered.
There was a monster on the loose....Deirdre O'Brian was a brave girl. Even having been just attacked by a man she did not know: At the truck stop on route 80 .......she crawled up to another unknown stranger ....to his truck for help. God Bless her. The truck driver tried to get help for her. It was too late to save her. He(Koeditich) seemed to be more of a vicious man than the person who left Princess Doe for dead in Blairstown. But, worth looking into.
The articles on Koeditich were in the Morristown Daily Record.......if you have a way to look in the archives of that News Paper. It was all front page news.......

LionRun
12-28-2006, 03:05 PM
There is not a whole lot on the web about Koedatich. What I stated is based on memory. It is still worth checking out. A long shot at best; but, it warrants a closer look.


SundayRain, it was a scary place to live while that twisted thing was running loose. The Guardian Angels from NYC actually came out to the Morris County Mall to train locals on how to protect the citizens. Were you also living in the area too? And what you said about Deirdre O'Brien, and how she struggled to reach that truck driver after her attack I now remember also. I remember thinking it was so sad, and such a shame. She made it alive to the trucker; but, did not survive.

If anyone knows anything about the case, or knows if Koedatich was ever executed or not please post. If more is learned about the possibility of Koedatich being involved, then he can either be ruled in or out, and the search for the Blairstown Pricess Doe can progress.

Pdoe
01-08-2007, 04:52 PM
Hi guys,

All of this talk brings one other question to mind. Is there any website out there that tracks the when/where of serial killers while they were free? I'm guessing that many victims are never found or associated to a killer just by dumb luck. Does anybody know of a resource that might give dates and a gernal location? Perhaps I'll put another page on my site to list the where abouts of various known killers at the time. Maybe we can rule some of them out as well.

Thoughts?

ihadcabinfever
01-08-2007, 06:28 PM
I was reading Court tv Library. There is a list of them listed there.
They update information related to the cases , most updates are done by profilers.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/wilder/

I know there is a site that was linked here somewhere that had an International Data base. I don't think it is very detailed.

ihadcabinfever
01-08-2007, 06:38 PM
http://dui1.com/DuiCaseLawDetail19199/Page2.htm

State v. Koedatich
4/19/1990




State from resubmitting both the "outrageously wanton and vile" and the murder "to escape detection" factors. The trial court agreed, holding that those death-penalty decisions barred the State from charging any aggravating factors at resentencing that the jury in the first penalty phase did not unanimously find to exist.


II.


We note that the Capital Punishment Act, N.J.S.A. 2C:11-3 (the Act), offers no specific guidance on the question whether aggravating factors not unanimously found to exist by the jury at the initial sentencing proceeding can be presented at resentencing following a remand. Nor have our prior decisions concerning the presentation of aggravating factors at resentencing dealt specifically with the issue raised by this appeal.


In Biegenwald II, supra, 106 N.J. 13, 524 A.2d 130, we affirmed defendant's conviction for the murder of Anne Olesiewicz, but reversed his death sentence because the trial court had improperly instructed the jury in the penalty phase. Accordingly, we remanded the case for a new sentencing proceeding, observing that " esentencing cannot be considered double-jeopardy where the first sentence was a death sentence and the evidence was sufficient." Id. at 68, 524 A.2d 130.


At the initial penalty-phase proceeding in Biegenwald II, the jury unanimously found the existence of two aggravating factors: (1) that defendant had previously been convicted of murder, N.J.S.A. 2C:11-3c(4)(a); and (2) that "the murder was outrageously or wantonly vile, horrible or inhuman in that it


involved torture, depravity of mind, or an aggravated battery to the victim." N.J.S.A. 2C:11-3c(4)(c) ("c(4)(c)"). We held that principles of double jeopardy barred the State from proving the existence of the "aggravated battery" or "torture" components of the c(4)(c) aggravating circumstance at resentencing because there was insufficient evidence in the record to support those components. 106 N.J. at 51, 524 A.2d 130. We noted, however, that the State would not be barred from offering evidence of "depravity of mind" to establish aggravating factor c(4)(c). Id. at 52, 524 A.2d 130.


In Biegenwald III, supra, 110 N.J. 521, 542 A.2d 442, the issue was whether the State could introduce as an aggravating factor at the resentencing hearing defendant's conviction for the murder of William Ward, which was obtained after the Olesiewicz conviction. We held that admission of the Ward conviction at resentencing complied with the double-jeopardy clauses of both the federal and state constitutions and with principles of fundamental fairness. Id. at 540-41, 542 A.2d 442. As dictum in that opinion, we offered this guideline:


If the sentencing jury in the first trial specifically rejects an aggravating factor or an appellate court finds that the State failed to establish by sufficient evidence the existence of an aggravating factor at the original trial, the aggravating factor[,] or that part of the aggravating factor rejected by the jury, cannot be used at the resentencing proceeding. [ Id. at 542, 542 A.2d 442.]


Neither Biegenwald II nor Biegenwald III, however, is dispositive of the issue before us. Therefore, we begin our analysis by considering the question in the context of double-jeopardy jurisprudence. Because we have held the double-jeopardy clauses of the state and federal constitutions to be substantially coextensive, State
21 pages
click on the link to read the rest

ihadcabinfever
01-09-2007, 07:46 PM
State v. Koedatich
http://dui1.com/DuiCaseLawDetail19199/Page1.htm

Page 1.
I linked page 2 first. Sorry I just googled his name and got the link. 2nd page showed 1st.

ihadcabinfever
01-09-2007, 08:06 PM
Deirdre was driving home in Morris Plains/Mt. Freedom area.....Koeditich followed her. It was at a time when we were all afraid of traveling in that area. Afraid to go to that Mall, in Morris Plains after Ammie was taken and murdered.
There was a monster on the loose....Deirdre O'Brian was a brave girl. Even having been just attacked by a man she did not know: At the truck stop on route 80 .......she crawled up to another unknown stranger ....to his truck for help. God Bless her. The truck driver tried to get help for her. It was too late to save her. He(Koeditich) seemed to be more of a vicious man than the person who left Princess Doe for dead in Blairstown. But, worth looking into.
The articles on Koeditich were in the Morristown Daily Record.......if you have a way to look in the archives of that News Paper. It was all front page news.......


Deirdre O'Brian was a brave girl. Even having been just attacked by a man she did not know: At the truck stop on route 80 .......she crawled up to another unknown stranger ....to his truck for help. God Bless her. The truck driver tried to get help for her. It was too late to save her.

Oh my God.

It's all just as vicious. I don't think anyone would ever imagine the level of fear and panic these girls endured. It is possible he is connected to Pdoe.

It is unbeleivable the amount of Police hours put into these crimes multiplied by years and the amount of stress endured by knowing all the details of the crimes of young girls like this. Then it just keeps coming. Still no closure. More victims and More monsters. What laws need to be modified or changed in order to get at the heart of these type of crimes? There has to be too many road blocks .
Somewhere in an article there was mention of a man that was going to Pdoes grave. If she is still unkown , who would be drawn to her?
Why would a man stand over a grave of a unkown girl?
He must have known her somehow. He knows something. It's guilt that draws him. What other reason would it be?

ihadcabinfever
01-09-2007, 08:10 PM
State v. Koedatich
http://dui1.com/DuiCaseLawDetail19199/Page1.htm

Page 1.
I linked page 2 first. Sorry I just googled his name and got the link. 2nd page showed 1st.

Can you beleive 21 pages full of this muderers rights. WTF? Where is there any rights for these victims? Does anyone know ?

LionRun
01-10-2007, 05:44 PM
Can you beleive 21 pages full of this muderers rights. WTF? Where is there any rights for these victims? Does anyone know ?
I so agree. I am beyond sick and tired of convicted criminals' right taking precedence over known victims' rights. When we have a chance to change the law in favor of victims rights I say, "Let's Do it!".

LionRun

LionRun
01-10-2007, 05:52 PM
Deirdre O'Brian was a brave girl. Even having been just attacked by a man she did not know: At the truck stop on route 80 .......she crawled up to another unknown stranger ....to his truck for help. God Bless her. The truck driver tried to get help for her. It was too late to save her.

Oh my God.

It's all just as vicious. I don't think anyone would ever imagine the level of fear and panic these girls endured. It is possible he is connected to Pdoe.

It is unbeleivable the amount of Police hours put into these crimes multiplied by years and the amount of stress endured by knowing all the details of the crimes of young girls like this. Then it just keeps coming. Still no closure. More victims and More monsters. What laws need to be modified or changed in order to get at the heart of these type of crimes? There has to be too many road blocks .
Somewhere in an article there was mention of a man that was going to Pdoes grave. If she is still unkown , who would be drawn to her?
Why would a man stand over a grave of a unkown girl?
He must have known her somehow. He knows something. It's guilt that draws him. What other reason would it be?

What happened to those lovely young ladies still haunts me. I lived in fear along with many others in that area during that time. I too think it is possible that Koedatich was involved in Princess Doe's murder. It is a long shot as I have stated because the possibilities are many. But, I think it warrants further research.

Deirdre was left at a truck stop off the major Rt. 80, in the same area where Princess Doe was found. Amy was abducted from Morris County Mall and then found in Randolf Township (which is also in at least the direction of where Princess Doe was found). The time frame fits perfectly. They were all young women. Hmm, I really do wonder.

LionRun

Pdoe
01-11-2007, 09:08 AM
What happened to those lovely young ladies still haunts me. I lived in fear along with many others in that area during that time. I too think it is possible that Koedatich was involved in Princess Doe's murder. It is a long shot as I have stated because the possibilities are many. But, I think it warrants further research.

Deirdre was left at a truck stop off the major Rt. 80, in the same area where Princess Doe was found. Amy was abducted from Morris County Mall and then found in Randolf Township (which is also in at least the direction of where Princess Doe was found). The time frame fits perfectly. They were all young women. Hmm, I really do wonder.

LionRun
I'll do some research and see what I can find out.

LionRun
01-11-2007, 03:19 PM
Does anyone know if Koedatich was ever executed?

Great Pdoe. I'll let you know if I find anything too.

LionRun

Pdoe
01-11-2007, 07:30 PM
Does anyone know if Koedatich was ever executed?

Great Pdoe. I'll let you know if I find anything too.

LionRun
No, he should still be around if he was convicted in Jersey. Even if you are sentenced to death there, they never seem to execute anybody. I'll let you know what I find out. Like you both said, the dates and locations are not too difficult to fit together.

Pdoe
01-15-2007, 03:36 PM
No, he should still be around if he was convicted in Jersey. Even if you are sentenced to death there, they never seem to execute anybody. I'll let you know what I find out. Like you both said, the dates and locations are not too difficult to fit together.
Just confirmed that James Koedatich is in prison at the NJ State Prison and has been since 1/11/1985.

LionRun
01-15-2007, 04:44 PM
Thank you Pdoe. I wonder if Le ever talked with Koedatich about other crimes, including murders of others. The way he killed Amy and Deirdre indicate he had experience and would keep killing as often as he could.


Best in learning Princess Doe's true identity.

Lion

Pdoe
01-16-2007, 10:54 AM
Thank you Pdoe. I wonder if Le ever talked with Koedatich about other crimes, including murders of others. The way he killed Amy and Deirdre indicate he had experience and would keep killing as often as he could.


Best in learning Princess Doe's true identity.

Lion
Trying to find out it LE ever questioned or considered him as a possibility. Will let you know what I find out.

ihadcabinfever
01-17-2007, 06:01 PM
I think he's dead.

Pdoe
01-17-2007, 11:21 PM
I think he's dead.
Really? The website for the department of corrections in NJ showed that he was still locked up as of yesterday. Maybe I missed something.

LionRun
01-17-2007, 11:43 PM
Really? The website for the department of corrections in NJ showed that he was still locked up as of yesterday. Maybe I missed something.
Hi Pdoe. How are you today? I hope all is well. I thought Koedatich was spared the death sentence (can't remember how) and was still incarcerated.

I wonder if there are any LE or retired LE that we could track down and ask about a possible connection between Princess Doe and Koedatich. I wonder if there was anyone in LE who took her case personally, (young girl, murdered, family never found, identity never known) who may be willing to help. Again, it is a long shot. But, finding Shawn Hornbeck alive was a long shot too.

Lion

ihadcabinfever
01-18-2007, 12:11 AM
Really? The website for the department of corrections in NJ showed that he was still locked up as of yesterday. Maybe I missed something.

LOL sorry maybe he isn't . I thought it was from the scary site with the pic. The other guy from NJ the Mahwah case is the one I am thinking of. I just read about that . Never read that before.

ihadcabinfever
01-18-2007, 12:40 AM
Christopher Wilder ? They named him the beauty queen killer.

Pdoe
01-19-2007, 06:55 PM
Hi Pdoe. How are you today? I hope all is well. I thought Koedatich was spared the death sentence (can't remember how) and was still incarcerated.

I wonder if there are any LE or retired LE that we could track down and ask about a possible connection between Princess Doe and Koedatich. I wonder if there was anyone in LE who took her case personally, (young girl, murdered, family never found, identity never known) who may be willing to help. Again, it is a long shot. But, finding Shawn Hornbeck alive was a long shot too.

Lion
Hi Lion,

I'm trying to track down if he was ever considered a suspect or not. LE is still very involved and interested in this case. I'll let you know what I find out.

LionRun
01-19-2007, 07:12 PM
Hi Lion,

I'm trying to track down if he was ever considered a suspect or not. LE is still very involved and interested in this case. I'll let you know what I find out.
Great Pdoe. I look forward to hearing any info.

Lion

ihadcabinfever
01-23-2007, 08:09 PM
pdoe ceck your PM

ihadcabinfever
01-23-2007, 11:02 PM
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=604083&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US


ANGELA SIGRID RAMSEYAge Progression Case Type: Lost, Injured, Missing DOB: May 16, 1961Sex: FemaleMissing Date: Jun 21, 1977Race: WhiteAge Now: 45Height: 5'3" (160 cm)Missing City: DELANDWeight: 115 lbs (52 kg)Missing State : FLHair Color: BlondeMissing Country: United StatesEye Color: BrownCase Number: NCMC604083Circumstances: Angela's photo is shown age-progressed to 45 years. She was last known to be at a motel in Deland, FL. Angela has not been seen or heard from since. She has a small scar on the left side of her face.

She's not on here?

Pdoe
02-01-2007, 06:07 PM
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=604083&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US



ANGELA SIGRID RAMSEYAge Progression Case Type: Lost, Injured, Missing DOB: May 16, 1961Sex: FemaleMissing Date: Jun 21, 1977Race: WhiteAge Now: 45Height: 5'3" (160 cm)Missing City: DELANDWeight: 115 lbs (52 kg)Missing State : FLHair Color: BlondeMissing Country: United StatesEye Color: BrownCase Number: NCMC604083Circumstances: Angela's photo is shown age-progressed to 45 years. She was last known to be at a motel in Deland, FL. Angela has not been seen or heard from since. She has a small scar on the left side of her face.

She's not on here?
I'll add her to the possible matches list on the website. I think I cut off at 1978 for the initial version of the list. Thanks!

ihadcabinfever
03-10-2007, 08:48 PM
Iv'e been thinking about this for a while now , Did they ever think she was one of the people that come up to go White Water Rafting?
If you are not from the area, the only reason to pass through this area would be to go to the races( POCONOS )(Motorcycle or Car) or to Raft=party=camp????

That is something I haven't seen discussed unless I missed it here somewhere.
If you are fimilar with the area you would know this was a popular thing to do back then. There were alot of rafting rentals and a few camping areas that were pretty ,for lack of a better word (lawless) at the time. Alot of tents along the Delaware River and tents teenagers and coolers full of beer.

I went up there once not to stay but to see other people camping there it was chaos. Even I was a little nervous and that would be hard to beleive about me back then. Like a bad mix of kids different towns & alcohol......

I can't remember exactly where it was but it was like a donkey trail getting in there. Teenagers came from all over . Getting back into New Jersey Either way Rte 80 East or over Rte 23 was bumper to bumper on a Sunday night.

Now if there was a race and there was a large crowd of rafters coming back traffic was heavy. Like a stand still. People would be drinking what was left on the back of tailgates. Music blaring.

So this girl could have been from anywhere . For all anyone knows something could have happened at a campsite then she could have been dumped there on there way out?
How could nobody be looking for her?
The only other place would have been the East Stroudsburg College and nobody was reported missing from there.
So thats the way it really was , when I was 17....

LOL here is a link.
They have changed the rules since then.
http://www.whitewaterwillies.com/faq.htm

Frequently Asked Questions

Here at Whitewater Willie's, we make every attempt to offer a fun, enjoyable Delaware River Adventure. Below please find the questions most ask us prior to their rafting trip.


1. What should I bring with me for our rafting trip?

Sneakers
Appropriate Clothing for cold weather
A Dry Change of Clothes (Leave in car)
Suntan Lotion
Bathing Suit
Lunch and Beverages, Fresh Drinking Water (See Note On Alcohol)
Rain Gear
Please Note: A Minimal Amount of Alcohol is permitted on the River.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. What not to bring for our rafting trip?

Jewelry
Persons who Litter, and don't respect the environment
Persons with poor attitudes, who do not respect others
Excessive Amounts of Alcohol
Illegal Drugs
Glass Containers

ihadcabinfever
03-13-2007, 10:40 PM
Just wanted to ad that the white water rafting link is just one of many places you could rent from in this area. There were many places along the Delaware River during that time you could go rent canoes or tubes,rafts ect.

I beleive this was a personal thing between her and the killer.Putting her in the graveyard speaks volumes. I have a bad feeling she was probably killed there not somewhere else. Like someone was having the last say. Someone scorned maybe, if not then why would the person not just continue east a little further to that Scenic Overlook pull off and put her over the side. I doubt you would see anyone down there. It seems if it was a stranger that is what they would have done , not drive into Blairstown to a graveyard .How would anyone know it was there? you can't see anything from the highway in July?
Just another theory about what could have happened. She didnt have drugs or alcohol in her system but maybe the person that did this did. I this was done in a jealous rage.
Something happened The Fourth of July and it escalated from there. Maybe just innocent flirting that turned deadly.

ihadcabinfever
03-13-2007, 10:50 PM
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=601057&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

vs

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewPoster&caseNum=400028&orgPrefix=NCMU&searchLang=en_US

date is off
I bet by looking at PDoe's cheeks she had dimples when she smiled.

these girls both liked the color red.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/doss_kimberly.html

Details of Disappearance

Doss was living in Houston, Texas at the time of her disappearance. She was reported missing on September 1, 1982. On September 27, she was seen at a Greyhound bus station in Davenport, Iowa. It is unclear where she was going; some believe she planned to return to Houston to visit her father. Her family never heard from her again.
Thursday's Child, a charitable organization that assists homeless or at-risk teenagers, claims they made contact with Doss in 1984, two years after her disappearance. They say Doss was working as a prostitute on Hollywood Boulevard in Hollywood, California, going by the name Kimberly Gardner. She had straight, bleached blonde hair. She was working for a pimp named James Wiseman. The woman the Thursday's Child workers saw was approximately four inches taller than Doss was reported to be.

Doss's mother did not believe the Hollywood woman was her daughter, so no investigative action was taken at that time. Several years passed before investigators decided Kimberly Gardner and Kimberly Doss were probably the same person. By that time, Gardner was no longer in Hollywood. She has never been seen from again and has not been definitively identified as Doss.

Some agencies may list March 24, 1980 or January 1, 1984 as the date of Doss's disappearance, and the place of her disappearance as Los Angeles, California. Texas authorities are assisting with the investigation into her disappearance.

Pdoe
03-21-2007, 08:02 AM
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=604083&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US


ANGELA SIGRID RAMSEYAge Progression Case Type: Lost, Injured, Missing DOB: May 16, 1961Sex: FemaleMissing Date: Jun 21, 1977Race: WhiteAge Now: 45Height: 5'3" (160 cm)Missing City: DELANDWeight: 115 lbs (52 kg)Missing State : FLHair Color: BlondeMissing Country: United StatesEye Color: BrownCase Number: NCMC604083Circumstances: Angela's photo is shown age-progressed to 45 years. She was last known to be at a motel in Deland, FL. Angela has not been seen or heard from since. She has a small scar on the left side of her face.

She's not on here?

I added Angela Ramsey to the possible matches list on the site.

ihadcabinfever
03-31-2007, 11:50 PM
http://www.princessdoe.org/

The 25th anniversary of the body being
discovered will be on July 15th, 2007
and our goal is to identify the body
before that date. A memorial service is
being planned at the grave site in
Blairstown, on 7/15/2007. Additional
details to follow shortly.

Bumping for the Princess.

Pdoe
04-06-2007, 09:37 AM
http://www.princessdoe.org/

The 25th anniversary of the body being
discovered will be on July 15th, 2007
and our goal is to identify the body
before that date. A memorial service is
being planned at the grave site in
Blairstown, on 7/15/2007. Additional
details to follow shortly.

Bumping for the Princess.

The 25th anniversary memorial service is being planned at 12:00 noon on Sunday, July 15th, 2007 at the Cedar Ridge Cemetery in Blairstown, NJ (at the Princess Doe Grave Site.) All are welcome. More details to follow on the website.

Thank you

KarlK
04-09-2007, 12:14 AM
1. What should I bring with me for our rafting trip?

Please Note: A Minimal Amount of Alcohol is permitted on the River.

I guess that whoever wrote this list was not aware that for the average teenager bent on a weekend of partying in the wild a "minimal amount of alcohol" translates into "at least 24 beers per person per day"

ihadcabinfever
04-09-2007, 08:13 PM
not back in 1982 or before that,I asked my brother ,he said they now have a 2 beer limit.They check the coolers.

KarlK
04-09-2007, 08:49 PM
not back in 1982 or before that,I asked my brother ,he said they now have a 2 beer limit.They check the coolers.

Party poopers :mad:

Pdoe
04-23-2007, 09:21 PM
I posted some basic dental info on the website today. This might be useful for the most basic type of rule-outs.
http://www.princessdoe.org/dental.html

I also added a page for the 25th anniversary memorial service to be held on 7/15/2007. That page will be updated frequently until all of the details are worked out.
http://www.princessdoe.org/memorial.html

ihadcabinfever
04-24-2007, 04:30 PM
Party poopers :mad:

LOL You would'nt allow your children up there back in the day. My mother did not know , My father however , would flip.

" Now that's good God D$#M way to get yourself killed" ! I quote.

That's the lecture we got after he would find out anywhere we went.

Anyway I doubt that is where she may have come from but the only place around there was the College or the river. I believe she was not a college student.


Am I reading that dental chart right ? She did not have her permanent molars? She was just a baby.:(

ihadcabinfever
04-24-2007, 04:55 PM
Okay , I read the information again. It could have been someone on the river . I am just thinking that because (the no shoes) no underwear on could mean she took off a bathing suit? SO if it was something related to this river theory, it would mean someone heading east because all the rental places are in Pa. Huh........

One more thing who would know that the Cemetary was there in July? the leaves from the highway would block the veiw? I never knew it was there. You can't see it? I don't think you can, Ahhhh unless you were going to cut through to 94 towards NYS?

Pdoe
04-25-2007, 09:55 AM
Okay , I read the information again. It could have been someone on the river . I am just thinking that because (the no shoes) no underwear on could mean she took off a bathing suit? SO if it was something related to this river theory, it would mean someone heading east because all the rental places are in Pa. Huh........

One more thing who would know that the Cemetary was there in July? the leaves from the highway would block the veiw? I never knew it was there. You can't see it? I don't think you can, Ahhhh unless you were going to cut through to 94 towards NYS?

The river thing is definitely a possibility. That is the problem with this case though, too many possibilities!! Quite a few different camps and campgrounds out in that area as well. As for the cemetery, it's a large one for the area and easily visible from Route 94 no matter what time of year. As for the teeth, are you referring to "unerrupted" remarks? If so those relate to wisdom teeth and the age can vary widely if/when they break through.

ihadcabinfever
04-25-2007, 03:54 PM
Is the Cemetary visible from Rte. 80 ? Also most people that went there during that time would have been 14-19 maybe older. I know I went there 2x and that was before I drove. When I turned 17 the woods would have been my last choice to go. (I really would have had to be bored )
I have been thinking about this earlier today, I am wondering if she either dove in or fell off something into the river ? I am just thnking why the Graveyard. Would that mean remorse? So weird.

People that don't live or grow up near the water don't have that fear or (common sense)
They don't think before they would jump or dive right in . Right into the rocks below rushing water.

Or Boat oar? hmmmmmmmmm

ihadcabinfever
04-25-2007, 04:10 PM
One more thing which picture is more realistic? The computer one or the sketch? Can anyone be sure? The sketch looks like her hair dryed the wrong way ,(flat) parted to the left and I know it looks shorter lin the front , like it would have been feathered. It's angled that way.(WATER)

Oh I don't think any 14 or 15 year olds would be telling their parents they were going there either. Unless it was with someone older and responsible.
I have no idea why , but I keep thinking this must be someone like a cousin or relative. I am guessing a cousin . I don't know why. Maybe they did not know she showed , they could not get out ? To meet.
Maybe she wanted to go from someone bragging about the location the party , swimming camping rafting and that may have brought her to the area, I keep thinking why isn't someone looking for her and all the girls that really look like her the timing of the missing is off? Urggggggg....

Pdoe
04-25-2007, 04:15 PM
Is the Cemetary visible from Rte. 80 ? Also most people that went there during that time would have been 14-19 maybe older. I know I went there 2x and that was before I drove. When I turned 17 the woods would have been my last choice to go. (I really would have had to be bored )
I have been thinking about this earlier today, I am wondering if she either dove in or fell off something into the river ? I am just thnking why the Graveyard. Would that mean remorse? So weird.

People that don't live or grow up near the water don't have that fear or (common sense)
They don't think before they would jump or dive right in . Right into the rocks below rushing water.

Or Boat oar? hmmmmmmmmm

The cemetery is several miles from route 80 (5-7ish.) Route 94 runs right in front of it. The graveyard is strange for dumping a body. If you wanted a body not to be found there are a million better places in Blairstown. Route 94 is heavily traveled when compared to other area roads. Also, the A&P is directly across from the cemetery, and had a well lighted parking lot etc. Compared to other areas in Blairstown, this seems higher risk. However, if the person dumping the body was not from the area and headed on route 80 WB (from NYC or Newark for example), this is one of the last exits before the tolls and NJ/PA state line and route 94 did not have much on it back then. The A&P would be one of the first landmarks you would see. She was brutally beaten so I don't know if an errant dive would explain the injuries.

ihadcabinfever
04-25-2007, 11:02 PM
Oh... I thought it was head severe trauma. As in only the upper part . I thought about her teeth , it mentioned fractures and I was thinking impact. As say , a football player wear mouth guard so they don't damage their teeth causing fractures from compression .



If you were heading Rte 80 east you could get off at the 94 exit? Does the sign say Blairstown or 94 also at that time?
I don't really pay attention to signs, landmarks , I know it's a bad habit.

Is there a stream near the Cemetary? Or water nearby? I was reading about M.B. and the "W" theory. That's all.

Pdoe
04-26-2007, 06:41 AM
Oh... I thought it was head severe trauma. As in only the upper part . I thought about her teeth , it mentioned fractures and I was thinking impact. As say , a football player wear mouth guard so they don't damage their teeth causing fractures from compression .



If you were heading Rte 80 east you could get off at the 94 exit? Does the sign say Blairstown or 94 also at that time?
I don't really pay attention to signs, landmarks , I know it's a bad habit.

Is there a stream near the Cemetary? Or water nearby? I was reading about M.B. and the "W" theory. That's all.

The impression I have so far is that she was beaten about the head. I don't have details but that is what it sounds like. I'll see if I can find out more though. As for the exit, it mentions both Blairstown and 94 on the sign. Route 94 starts there. If I am not mistaken, it's exit 4C. And yes, there is a creek nearby. It runs right by the southeast corner of the cemetery.

outofthedark
04-26-2007, 03:16 PM
Princess Doe now has a page on America's Most Wanted: http://www.amw.com/missing_children/brief.cfm?id=44823

ihadcabinfever
04-26-2007, 08:10 PM
The impression I have so far is that she was beaten about the head. I don't have details but that is what it sounds like. I'll see if I can find out more though. As for the exit, it mentions both Blairstown and 94 on the sign. Route 94 starts there. If I am not mistaken, it's exit 4C. And yes, there is a creek nearby. It runs right by the southeast corner of the cemetery.

Well after reading AMW , forget this.........

ihadcabinfever
04-26-2007, 08:14 PM
On AMW they have the dental picture, Is the left front tooth overlapping?
It looks chipped but I guess it was from the trama inflicted on her.

You know , It is even worse that this happened in the graveyard. How scared she must have been. What a B#$%RD:furious:

outofthedark
04-26-2007, 09:06 PM
I can't see an overlapping front tooth- it would be nice if they had profile images of the skeletal jaw

ihadcabinfever
04-26-2007, 11:23 PM
I can't see an overlapping front tooth- it would be nice if they had profile images of the skeletal jaw

Looking at the front teeth , is the left tooth turning left like it is crowded? I know it is chipped ,I just did'nt know if it was that way naturally or from the injury. I can't tell.
I don't look at teeth, doe network people taught me to look at the eye set and forehead. Hairline ect. You can change alot of things in appearance but not the eye set.

outofthedark
04-27-2007, 01:11 AM
Looking at the front teeth , is the left tooth turning left like it is crowded? I know it is chipped ,I just did'nt know if it was that way naturally or from the injury. I can't tell.
I don't look at teeth, doe network people taught me to look at the eye set and forehead. Hairline ect. You can change alot of things in appearance but not the eye set.

I think I see something now- one of her other teeth on the bottom looks like it got pushed back or something

Marie
05-16-2007, 09:52 AM
'Princess Doe' murder to appear in national spotlight again (http://www.njherald.com/307387504672677.php)


"Princess Doe — Missing from home, dead among strangers, remembered by all."

"America's Most Wanted" is the most recent attempt to bring attention to the mysterious and often dramatic investigation but Clayton said it has "been in the media eye since it happened."


In 1983, Princess Doe was the first entry into the FBI's National Crime Identification Center, a computer system designed to improve missing persons data available to police. The case was showcased in an HBO special, "Gone But Not Forgotten," in 1984 and twice almost became a made-for-TV movie.


Much of the attention was brought on by the way investigators tirelessly, sometimes desperately, scoured the country for clues about Princess Doe's identity and murder, none more so than former Blairstown detective Eric Kranz.


Kranz, the case's original lead investigator, was the first to dub the victim "Princess Doe of Cedar Ridge."

"By all outward appearance, she has no claim to fame ... but somewhere along the line of her life, she was probably somebody's princess," Kranz said during an Aug. 1982 press conference. "During the course of the investigation, we've grown a little affectionate toward the victim."

The most recent break came in 2005 when Lt. Stephen Speirs of the Warren County Prosecutor's Office received a letter from a Long Island pimp accepting responsibility for the murder. Speirs interviewed a woman associated with the pimp and was able to compile a fresh composite sketch of Princess Doe.


"Investigators think they know who did it, but they need to identify her to prove it," Clayton said. "That's the missing link."

Producers of the show have not set an air date for the story, though Clayton said they are "actively pursuing the case."

Much more at link.

Marie
05-16-2007, 09:55 AM
Riggs has a Web site, www.princessdoe.org (http://www.princessdoe.org/), where he provides information about the case, along with maps, photos and timelines. He has compiled the information from news clippings and through conversations with retired law enforcement officers.

ihadcabinfever
06-07-2007, 09:10 PM
Bumping for the Princess

Stella
06-09-2007, 12:22 AM
Janice Fullam and Brenda Crowley look like possibilities.

Pdoe
06-12-2007, 05:23 PM
The details for the memorial service on Sunday, July 15th, 2007 have been posted:

http://www.princessdoe.org/memorial.html

If you live in the area please join us. Thank you!

Sable
06-12-2007, 07:09 PM
Maybe her two front teeth were chipped before she was discovered? One of my front teeth is slightly darker than the rest. I had a filling put in, which chipped shortly afterwards, and that's when the color started to change.

MacPlus512
06-16-2007, 01:09 AM
If she died of blunt force trauma to the head, that may be why those teeth are chipped.

coco
06-19-2007, 08:27 AM
If she died of blunt force trauma to the head, that may be why those teeth are chipped.

^Thats what I was thinking too.
So what does everyone think about this lead with the prostitute and pimp from Long Island? Has this lead only recently become public knowledge or have I just not noticed it? Not to mention how they are now also letting us see her teeth. Any reason do you all know for these sudden changes?
And the way her underwear was missing, do you all think that was like the killers "souvenir" or something? Sorry if I don't make sense or these things have already been discussed.

ihadcabinfever
06-22-2007, 11:42 PM
Janice Fullam and Brenda Crowley look like possibilities.


The new sketch looks like Janice Fullam ,the original picture still looks like (to me) Kimberly Doss missing from Texas on one date and from Iowa they post her as missing a different date.


here is her link from Charley Project
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/doss_kimberly.html

http://www.charleyproject.org/images/d/doss_kimberly.jpg

Pdoe
06-27-2007, 10:00 AM
^Thats what I was thinking too.
So what does everyone think about this lead with the prostitute and pimp from Long Island? Has this lead only recently become public knowledge or have I just not noticed it? Not to mention how they are now also letting us see her teeth. Any reason do you all know for these sudden changes?
And the way her underwear was missing, do you all think that was like the killers "souvenir" or something? Sorry if I don't make sense or these things have already been discussed.

This information was just recently made public via the AMW article. I have seen it referenced in earlier newspaper articles back in late 1999 and early 2000 but never by LE.

ihadcabinfever
06-29-2007, 11:39 PM
Have you ruled any others out yet? It's not Doss , So it could be Fullam but more likely Crowley and if it is her then it leaves more questions.

anthrobones
07-01-2007, 09:52 PM
Am I reading that dental chart right ? She did not have her permanent molars? She was just a baby.:(

http://www.princessdoe.org/dental.html

Chart here indicates that Wisdom teeth--upper and lower left, and lower right were not erupted.

I'm almost 24 and mine have still not erupted. Just to give an idea.

LionRun
07-01-2007, 10:18 PM
http://www.princessdoe.org/dental.html

Chart here indicates that Wisdom teeth--upper and lower left, and lower right were not erupted.

I'm almost 24 and mine have still not erupted. Just to give an idea.

Thank you for the info, arthrobones. Isn't it true that wisdom teeth generally come in from between the ages of 17 and 21? Do you know how common it is for to take longer than that as in your case? How about earlier than 17? Does this happen mostly in cases where the wisdom teeth are impacted? I am guessing in your case they re not impacted or you would have done something about it. Or does it take longer than 21 years fairly commonly?

Lion

anthrobones
07-02-2007, 11:28 AM
Thank you for the info, arthrobones. Isn't it true that wisdom teeth generally come in from between the ages of 17 and 21? Do you know how common it is for to take longer than that as in your case? How about earlier than 17? Does this happen mostly in cases where the wisdom teeth are impacted? I am guessing in your case they re not impacted or you would have done something about it. Or does it take longer than 21 years fairly commonly?

Lion

I have no idea how common it is for it to take longer, but the age range is anywhere from 17 to 25. Some people may get their wisdom teeth in when they are younger than 17, some people may get them when they are older than 25. Some people don't have wisdom teeth, some people's never come to the surface, and some people's that do come to the surface are never extracted.

As for my teeth, they are there, but have not made it up to the gumline yet. The dentist does bitewings every 6 months to see how they are slowly (really, slowly) proceeding up to the gums.

anthrobones
07-02-2007, 11:40 AM
"not recall the name, but did recall "Princess" was looking to be a hotel maid and said her father was dentist and that she was a runaway from FL. Dental charts of "Princess" were compared with those of Emma Vaughn, a missing girl from Orlando, Florida, but there was no match.



Interesting. I wonder--are any of the fathers of the possible matches dentists? Of course, the girl could have lied.

azure
07-03-2007, 11:31 PM
I think that in Brenda Crowley's first Doe Network photo, her top left front tooth looks eerily similar to Princess Doe's in her skull photo on AMW. The location fits the pimp/ex-prostitute's story, too.

Kelly

Richard
07-04-2007, 10:43 AM
This month marks the 25th anniversary of the death of the girl known as Blairstown Princess Doe. After all this time, she remains unidentified and the case remains unsolved.

Pdoe
07-09-2007, 06:03 AM
This month marks the 25th anniversary of the death of the girl known as Blairstown Princess Doe. After all this time, she remains unidentified and the case remains unsolved.

July 15th marks the anniversary. There is a memorial service planned on Sunday at the cemetery where her body was discovered. All are welcome.

www.princessdoe.org/memorial.html (http://www.princessdoe.org/memorial.html) for additional details

Pdoe
07-09-2007, 06:04 AM
I think that in Brenda Crowley's first Doe Network photo, her top left front tooth looks eerily similar to Princess Doe's in her skull photo on AMW. The location fits the pimp/ex-prostitute's story, too.

Kelly

I have to agree with you. It's probably the best match on the list so far and even more so because of the location.

anthrobones
07-09-2007, 10:12 AM
Is there a reason why it is taking so long to get all the possible matches checked? I know it does take a long time, but are all of them going to be/can actually be checked?

anthrobones
07-09-2007, 10:46 AM
From DoeNetwork:

"Police believe Princess Doe was from the Long Island, N.Y. area, and was estranged from her family."

Originally, I had read that the girl was possibly from Florida. What is the evidence that she is now most likely from NY?

Also, Doe Network says that she may have worked at a hotel in Ocean City, Maryland, but the Princess Doe website says that the connection to Ocean City is not credible. Why? I assume that the Princess Doe site is more up to date.

ihadcabinfever
07-12-2007, 06:44 PM
http://www.princessdoe.org (http://www.princessdoe.org)

Bumping

anthrobones
07-13-2007, 09:22 PM
This one is linked as a possible match. She has 4 fillings, Princess Doe has 4 fillings.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/204dfnh.html

anthrobones
07-13-2007, 09:30 PM
Things that don't make sense to me:

This girl is too tall:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/39dfmd.html

This girl had a fractured clavicle:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1569dfpa.html
Did Princess Doe have one?

Pdoe
07-14-2007, 01:14 PM
The 25th anniversary of Princess Doe being found in Blairstown, NJ is being held tomorrow - Sunday, July 15th 2007 at 12:00pm noon. The public is welcome. If you are in the area please join us. Additional details at:

http://www.princessdoe.org/memorial.html

Thank You!

ihadcabinfever
07-15-2007, 08:18 PM
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2007/07/80_attend_memorial_service_for.html


by Ralph R. Ortega Sunday July 15, 2007, 5:19 PM




Eighty mourners showed up for a memorial service in Warren County today to remember Princess Doe, a still-unidentified teenage girl found dead and beaten beyond recognition 25 years ago today.

The brief service just after noon at the girl's grave inside the Cedar Ridge Cemetery in Blairstown, where the girl's body also was discovered, was attended by residents from the small town, joined by others from neighboring communities and police who have not let up on the case.
After exhuming the body in 1999, authorities have continued working to match her DNA with that of other missing girls, said Lt. Stephen Speirs of the Warren County Prosecutor's Office, who is investigating the murder, and attended the service.
Former Blairstown Police Lt. Eric Kranz, who originally worked on the case after the young girl's discovery inside the cemetery by maintenance workers, and who still assists the prosecutor's office, used today's service to "rededicate" himself to the cause of identifying Princess Doe.
Kranz had come up with the name, having referred to his own daughter as "princess," around the time of the murder discovery.
"It's an odd thing indeed to see how something like Princess Doe's murder can be a beacon of hope for all those families out there that don't know the fate of their kid," he said on the rocky grass hill where the girl's grave site is located. Kranz called for dedicating the site as a national memorial, "for all those missing and those that have never been identified post mortem."
Princess Doe, according to a Web site devoted to her by a former Blairstown resident, was described as 14- to 18-years-old, weighing 110 pounds, and standing 5 feet 2 inches tall. She had medium brown, shoulder-length hair. Her eye color is unknown. Both of her ears were pierced. The left one was pierced twice.

Pdoe
07-20-2007, 07:02 AM
From DoeNetwork:

"Police believe Princess Doe was from the Long Island, N.Y. area, and was estranged from her family."

Originally, I had read that the girl was possibly from Florida. What is the evidence that she is now most likely from NY?

Also, Doe Network says that she may have worked at a hotel in Ocean City, Maryland, but the Princess Doe website says that the connection to Ocean City is not credible. Why? I assume that the Princess Doe site is more up to date.

There was an article that explained that once LE looked into, they could not find a credible witness to back up the possibility. The initial reporter that worked that case insisted that it was credible but LE did not seem to think so in the end. The most recent article on AMW indicates that the NYC area is the more likely origin. This makes more sense from a highway point of view because route 80 runs straight from NYC through the area where PD was found.

MacPlus512
07-30-2007, 01:00 AM
Just a thought, but has anyone investigated the clothing she was wearing sort of like that 1979 case of the girl we know as Cali?

If it was sold at a specific store, that may help us pinpoint the origins of Princess Doe. For example, if it was a Macy's brand and there were no Macy's in MD at the time (I'm not sure where Macy's was in 1982 but they just entered my region a few years ago after taking over other stores) that may help us a bit. If it came from an indie retailer in the NYC area perhaps one of the designers/merchants would recognize it or could check it against an old catalog assuming they archived back 25 (or more) years?

Pdoe
08-17-2007, 05:57 PM
Just a thought, but has anyone investigated the clothing she was wearing sort of like that 1979 case of the girl we know as Cali?

If it was sold at a specific store, that may help us pinpoint the origins of Princess Doe. For example, if it was a Macy's brand and there were no Macy's in MD at the time (I'm not sure where Macy's was in 1982 but they just entered my region a few years ago after taking over other stores) that may help us a bit. If it came from an indie retailer in the NYC area perhaps one of the designers/merchants would recognize it or could check it against an old catalog assuming they archived back 25 (or more) years?

So far as I know, the clothes were pretty much a dead end. It seems that companies did not keep very specific records of what went where back then. Today it would probably be much different. The same goes for the jewlery.

Pdoe
08-17-2007, 05:58 PM
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2007/07/80_attend_memorial_service_for.html


by Ralph R. Ortega Sunday July 15, 2007, 5:19 PM




Eighty mourners showed up for a memorial service in Warren County today to remember Princess Doe, a still-unidentified teenage girl found dead and beaten beyond recognition 25 years ago today.

The brief service just after noon at the girl's grave inside the Cedar Ridge Cemetery in Blairstown, where the girl's body also was discovered, was attended by residents from the small town, joined by others from neighboring communities and police who have not let up on the case.
After exhuming the body in 1999, authorities have continued working to match her DNA with that of other missing girls, said Lt. Stephen Speirs of the Warren County Prosecutor's Office, who is investigating the murder, and attended the service.
Former Blairstown Police Lt. Eric Kranz, who originally worked on the case after the young girl's discovery inside the cemetery by maintenance workers, and who still assists the prosecutor's office, used today's service to "rededicate" himself to the cause of identifying Princess Doe.
Kranz had come up with the name, having referred to his own daughter as "princess," around the time of the murder discovery.
"It's an odd thing indeed to see how something like Princess Doe's murder can be a beacon of hope for all those families out there that don't know the fate of their kid," he said on the rocky grass hill where the girl's grave site is located. Kranz called for dedicating the site as a national memorial, "for all those missing and those that have never been identified post mortem."
Princess Doe, according to a Web site devoted to her by a former Blairstown resident, was described as 14- to 18-years-old, weighing 110 pounds, and standing 5 feet 2 inches tall. She had medium brown, shoulder-length hair. Her eye color is unknown. Both of her ears were pierced. The left one was pierced twice.


The turn out for the memorial service was great. Thank you very much to all of those who took the time to attend.

Teresa Larson
09-07-2007, 03:51 AM
Has anyone looked into the possibility of Princess Doe being a student from Blairstown Academy or any of the other schools near by? Blairstown is a private school. It is situated on 435 acres adjacent to the village of Blairstown NJ. I also noticed that there are 9 horse academies in the area Could it be possible her killer worked for one of the horse stables? Maybe one of the owners would possibly recognize her picture. Just a few thoughts

coco
09-07-2007, 07:23 AM
Has everyone noticed that they have changed the case history a bit? It used to say she was thought to have been deceased up to one week prior to discovery. Now it's saying they think she may have been killed a few weeks before she was found. They are also disclosing she had never given birth and was not pregnant. How come a few more details are coming out now?

Pdoe
09-11-2007, 11:36 AM
Has anyone looked into the possibility of Princess Doe being a student from Blairstown Academy or any of the other schools near by? Blairstown is a private school. It is situated on 435 acres adjacent to the village of Blairstown NJ. I also noticed that there are 9 horse academies in the area Could it be possible her killer worked for one of the horse stables? Maybe one of the owners would possibly recognize her picture. Just a few thoughts


Blair would have been running private summer camps/programs at that point and I cannot imagine that a parent would not look for their child after sending them off to some kind of camp for the summer. It's a very small town and I know that several people working at Blair were very well aware and informed about the case. Not sure about the horse academy angle.

Pdoe
09-11-2007, 11:39 AM
Has everyone noticed that they have changed the case history a bit? It used to say she was thought to have been deceased up to one week prior to discovery. Now it's saying they think she may have been killed a few weeks before she was found. They are also disclosing she had never given birth and was not pregnant. How come a few more details are coming out now?

Most of what you mentioned had already been disclosed but never clarified. The princessdoe.org website is an attempt to bring clarity to as many facts as possible. As for the time/date of death, it is extremely difficult to calculate. Based on what has been learned over the past 25 years, it was determined that she might have been killed in a larger time frame. Again, very tough to estimate.

Teresa Larson
09-22-2007, 10:56 PM
Bumping this up for Princess Doe NJ. :dance:

Teresa Larson
10-30-2007, 08:57 PM
Bumping this up again for Princess Doe of NJ. I wish we could help find out who she was... :-( I still think she might have been around one of the horse stables in the area.

Pdoe
10-31-2007, 07:06 AM
Bumping this up again for Princess Doe of NJ. I wish we could help find out who she was... :-( I still think she might have been around one of the horse stables in the area.

LE is awaiting another batch of DNA results. That might help focus the investigation going forward.

Sable
10-31-2007, 12:47 PM
There was a new addition to the DoeNetwork yesterday. The missing girl bears a striking resemblance to the NCMEC's reconstruction Blairstown Princess Doe. The height and weight match up as well.

The Doe Network:
Case File 2452DFMT

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/NKirkpatrick.jpg
Nancy L. Kirkpatrick
Missing since April 23, 1976 from Columbia Falls, Montana
Classification: Endangered Missing

Vital Statistics
Age at Time of Disappearance: 16 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'2"; 90 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; brown eyes.
Marks, Scars: Scars on her right shoulder and beneath her arm, between elbow and shoulder.

Circumstances of Disappearance
Nancy Kirkpatrick was last seen in Columbia Falls, MT on April 23, 1976.

Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Flathead County Sheriff's Office
406-758-5585
Source Information:
My Space Page (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=113759839)
News Paper Archive (http://www.newspaperarchive.com/)

Sable
10-31-2007, 12:48 PM
http://b9.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/01334/92/15/1334295129_m.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/36UFNJ.jpg

Pdoe
11-01-2007, 11:45 AM
There was a new addition to the DoeNetwork yesterday. The missing girl bears a striking resemblance to the NCMEC's reconstruction Blairstown Princess Doe. The height and weight match up as well.

The Doe Network:
Case File 2452DFMT

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/NKirkpatrick.jpg
Nancy L. Kirkpatrick
Missing since April 23, 1976 from Columbia Falls, Montana
Classification: Endangered Missing

Vital Statistics

Age at Time of Disappearance: 16 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'2"; 90 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; brown eyes.
Marks, Scars: Scars on her right shoulder and beneath her arm, between elbow and shoulder.

Circumstances of Disappearance
Nancy Kirkpatrick was last seen in Columbia Falls, MT on April 23, 1976.

Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Flathead County Sheriff's Office
406-758-5585
Source Information:
My Space Page (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=113759839)
News Paper Archive (http://www.newspaperarchive.com/)



Sable, I will add Nancy Kirkpatrick to the possible match list on the website over the weekend. Thanks!

Dr. Doogie
11-01-2007, 01:12 PM
Just looking at the picture versus the reconstruction, all I can say is WOW! I cannot imagine a closer visual match.

Angie4b1g
11-01-2007, 03:09 PM
Oh my goodness, that's just gotta be her!

Pdoe
11-04-2007, 05:51 AM
Nancy L. Kirkpatrick has been added to the possible matches list on princessdoe.org Does anybody have a DOB for her?

Thanks!

Teresa Larson
11-21-2007, 02:05 AM
Bumping this up for Princess Doe! Is there anything new to report?

marysawol
11-21-2007, 06:47 AM
Nancy L. Kirkpatrick has been added to the possible matches list on princessdoe.org Does anybody have a DOB for her?

Thanks!

The doenetwork and charleyproject list her as being 16 when she disappeared on April 23, 1976.

Gina_M
11-21-2007, 09:33 PM
Wow, what a striking resemblance!

Gina_M
11-21-2007, 09:38 PM
Nancy Kirkpatrick's birthday is displayed on a banner on her MySpace page - January 25, 1960.

Sharon999
11-26-2007, 08:07 PM
The question is why Princess Doe may not have been reported. The stained front teeth. The cross necklace. The school girl clothes. The overkill, beaten to a pulp. The teeth would seemingly identify her from most victims. The oversized cross and school girl clothes do not sound like the average street person.
Typically when someone is beaten in the face as bad as she was its by someone they know.
I think the killer is a family member and that she hasn't been reported. Probably not until someonefrom the family steps forward wondering about their long lost relative will she ever be found, or reverse DNA catches them.
The missing motel worker isn't confirmed as being her since there is a question that the worker had blonde hair and there were brown hairs around the victim, right?
There aren't any victims with stained front teeth, right? Were the stains from flouride or smoking? Had she been raped?

Pdoe
11-26-2007, 09:32 PM
Nancy Kirkpatrick's birthday is displayed on a banner on her MySpace page - January 25, 1960.


Thank you for the DOB. I updated the matches list tonight to reflect her proper birthday. Also added Karen Kamsch as a possible match and marked Paula Stewart as a rule-out because her body was identified earlier this year elsewhere.

Sharon999
12-01-2007, 11:00 PM
Has the DNA been campared to Angela Sigrid Ramsey? If you just look at her teeth from this website, the teeth look similiar.

http://www.princessdoe.org/dental.html

I can't find many pictures of Angela on the net. Does anyone have them? I wanted to look for the necklace.

My husband is a cop and he said drug use causes the staining of the front two teeth. If you smoke crack. There are other reasons, certain medicines and flouride.

It would be nice to know a whole lot more about Angela to compare. She looks very similiar to the first composite sketch and I was told there weren't any blonde hair found near the body, only brown.

http://www.princessdoe.org/pictures.html

reb
12-01-2007, 11:08 PM
wow- i don't think i've ever seen a more exact match either. problem is,, according to these records, p. doe was found in '82 & nancy disappeared in '76.

Sharon999
12-02-2007, 12:03 AM
I blew up the picture of Angela Sigrid Ramsey from NCMEC, because it was the biggest best picture I could find of her teeth and I blew up the dental records from Princess Doe. I find every tooth I could see comparable.

I'm not a dental expert, but it warrants looking into. None of her teeth match mine. Angela's #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, & #11 could easily match up from a photo with Princess Doe's dental

Sharon999
12-02-2007, 12:33 AM
I can't find a really good picture of Nancy Kirkpatrick's teeth. Does anyone have one? From the picture I do see, I blew it up and could not find similarities with Princess Doe.

Pdoe
02-04-2008, 10:41 PM
I posted the newest version of the possible matches list on the princessdoe.org website. Also added a new link to view all of the PM's on a map. Testing this feature to see if people find it useful.

Thanks!

anthrobones
03-23-2008, 01:46 PM
Bumping up. There are so many untested possible matches. :/

Pdoe
03-27-2008, 04:35 PM
Bumping up. There are so many untested possible matches. :/

The list seems to grow quicker than the ruleouts happen, that is for sure. Brenda Crowley has been ruled out via dna.

anthrobones
06-03-2008, 04:26 PM
Bumping up again

Teresa Larson
06-19-2008, 12:57 AM
Bumping this up for Blairstown Princess Doe... It will be 26 years.

Pdoe
07-15-2008, 07:42 AM
Tuesday, July 15th, 2008 marks the 26th anniversary of Princess Doe's discovery. The search continues...

She is still in our thoughts and prayers, 26 years later.

Sable
07-17-2008, 12:12 AM
Nancy's MySpace has been updated, and a couple new photos added.

http://a247.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/73/l_66671cd2ec99add7c6efbe71fe735066.jpg
MySpace: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=113759839

Teresa Larson
07-17-2008, 04:19 AM
Nancy's MySpace has been updated, and a couple new photos added.

http://a247.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/73/l_66671cd2ec99add7c6efbe71fe735066.jpg
MySpace: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=113759839


Who is Nancy?? And what does she have to do with this case?

Sable
07-17-2008, 01:32 PM
I posted her as a possible match a while back.

zelmajane
07-18-2008, 03:21 PM
Who is Nancy?? And what does she have to do with this case?

Nancy is one of the possible matches. She is on the list on the Princess Doe site.

anthrobones
01-02-2009, 10:14 PM
bumping up

kpdx
03-09-2009, 03:53 PM
I haven't seen Susan Diane Wolff Cappel on any of the possible match lists with BPJD. What does everyone think?

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/530dfoh.html (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/530dfoh.html)

Pdoe
03-10-2009, 08:45 AM
I haven't seen Susan Diane Wolff Cappel on any of the possible match lists with BPJD. What does everyone think?

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/530dfoh.html (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/530dfoh.html)


Currently, Susan Diane Wolff Cappel is being tracked on the possible matches page of the www.princessdoe.org (http://www.princessdoe.org) site. She is listed about 25th from the top.

anthrobones
05-24-2009, 02:47 PM
Bumping it up

Pdoe
07-15-2009, 06:49 AM
Today, July 15, 2009 marks the 27th anniversary of Princess Doe being discovered, brutally beaten to death in a rural cemetery.

Balthazar
07-16-2009, 07:40 PM
Could this be Julie Ann Moseley?

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewPoster&caseNum=815024&orgPrefix=NCMC&searchLang=en_US

anthrobones
08-23-2009, 12:42 AM
Pdoe,

I think Rachael Elizabeth Garden can be eliminated as a possible match. Her Doe Network info says her wisdom teeth had been removed before she disappeared, but Princess Doe's wisdom teeth had just started to erupt.

anthrobones
08-23-2009, 12:54 AM
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/204dfnh.html

Laureen has fillings in teeth #'s 14, 18, 19 and 30. Princess Doe has fillings in 14, 19 and 30, but not 18. I don't know about anyone else, but I just find that a little bit coincidental.

anthrobones
08-23-2009, 12:59 AM
Jane Puckett can be removed from the possible match list on the Princess Doe site, since she was found alive.

shadowangel
10-01-2009, 08:49 PM
I've recently had reason to spend quite a bit of time in Warren County, and on one of my visits decided to take a ride into Blairstown (seeing the sign for the town while travelling on Rt 80 was just too tempting).
Its an irony that the sign for Blairstown also carries the name of another New Jersey hamlet...Hope.
Turning onto Rt 521, the first building one comes to is the Hope barracks of the NJ State Police. I cant be certain at this point, but I would feel comfortable in believing that the barracks were here in 1982. Then, travelling north on 521, I couldnt help but note the utter emptiness of this road. True, it is only about 7 miles, but its a lonely 7 miles of farms, abandoned buildings, and a twisty narrow two-lane road.
521 ends at an intersection with Rt 94. Turning left, I was greeted with the large, ornate sign announcing my entrance into Blairstown. Rt 94 goes down a hill, and at another intersection I came to what I guessed was the town proper (and noted, with interest, that the roadway crossed a stream called 'Paulins Kill'--"Kill" being Dutch for stream, "Paulin" being the original form of my own last name). The road curves, and there on the left is Cedar Ridge Cemetery. I'm not sure what I was expecting...Something more secluded, or darker, tree-shaded, I dont know. The cemetery lies at the level of the road, with two or three paved paths leading into the graves themselves. The cemetery covers a slope, upon which I knew lay the grave of Princess Doe.
For some reason I didnt stop, but continued on for a short distance. Just past the cemetery, on the same side, is a large ballfield upon which a team of girls, probably of Princess Doe's age, were practicing. Just past this, the normal stuff of small town life--- a popular chain drug store on one side, a popular chain supermarket on the other. I stopped, then turned my SUV around. I'm not sure of the reason for my hesitation, I've spent countless hours in numerous cemeteries...Usually into the wee hours of the morning. But this was different for some reason.
I pulled the truck onto one of the service paths for the cemetery and stopped again. I just couldnt proceed. I told myself that it was because I didnt know the exact location of the grave, and that just wandering aimlessly was disrespectful. I know it was more though. I had to wonder how many times Princess Doe's grave had been visited by the curious, the morbid, those who had little interest in what had happened to this young lady but only in the horrific manner of her death.
It was at that point I realized that was the reason I was there as well.

I said a little prayer, asked her forgiveness, and pulled my truck back onto the roadway.
I do plan to go back, but with a different outlook in my heart and mind.

One thing that I did take away from the visit...I now find it much harder to believe that Princess Doe wound up here randomly. I just cant see that someone would choose this particular exit, travel the distance into Blairstown, and then pull into the cemetery and commit a murder. Even if she were killed elsewhere, it stretches even my imagination that someone would choose here to unceremoniously dump a body. I'm now convinced this was local---Someone in the town knows the truth.

AnnieOakley
11-07-2009, 05:28 PM
Bump for Princess Doe

AnnieOakley
11-08-2009, 04:20 PM
I don't really know how to start a new thread, but if it's ok, I'd like to make a thread on the Unidentified forum for Blairstown Princess Doe. She is over in the Cold Cases Forum, and I only found out about her b/c someone on this Forum mentioned her case...

I can't seem to figure out how to link to that thread-- argh!

(http://http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14094)
I hope I did this right!:waitasec:

AnnieOakley
11-08-2009, 04:34 PM
Here are links to additional info:

http://www.princessdoe.org/index.html-- Has a list of possibilities, including those ruled out
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/36ufnj.html
http://http://www.weirdnj.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=186&Itemid=28 (http://http//www.weirdnj.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=186&Itemid=28)(this one seems to have some info not found in other places?? and some info that I think has since been ruled out)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Doe
http://www.amw.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=44823

hmg
11-09-2009, 05:40 PM
Here's the original Blairstown thread: Blairstown Princess Doe: Unidentified girl murdered July 1982 Blairstown, NJ - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Pdoe
11-17-2009, 02:32 PM
Here are links to additional info:

http://www.princessdoe.org/index.html-- Has a list of possibilities, including those ruled out
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/36ufnj.html
http://http://www.weirdnj.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=186&Itemid=28 (http://http//www.weirdnj.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=186&Itemid=28)(this one seems to have some info not found in other places?? and some info that I think has since been ruled out)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Doe
http://www.amw.com/missing_children/case.cfm?id=44823


Most of the Weird NJ information has been ruled out or is not accurate. The alcohol content in the blood is not conclusive because the body had been exposed for so long. Also, the skirt was red, not blue.

Thanks!

Pdoe
11-18-2009, 08:42 AM
I've recently had reason to spend quite a bit of time in Warren County, and on one of my visits decided to take a ride into Blairstown (seeing the sign for the town while travelling on Rt 80 was just too tempting).
Its an irony that the sign for Blairstown also carries the name of another New Jersey hamlet...Hope.
Turning onto Rt 521, the first building one comes to is the Hope barracks of the NJ State Police. I cant be certain at this point, but I would feel comfortable in believing that the barracks were here in 1982. Then, travelling north on 521, I couldnt help but note the utter emptiness of this road. True, it is only about 7 miles, but its a lonely 7 miles of farms, abandoned buildings, and a twisty narrow two-lane road.
521 ends at an intersection with Rt 94. Turning left, I was greeted with the large, ornate sign announcing my entrance into Blairstown. Rt 94 goes down a hill, and at another intersection I came to what I guessed was the town proper (and noted, with interest, that the roadway crossed a stream called 'Paulins Kill'--"Kill" being Dutch for stream, "Paulin" being the original form of my own last name). The road curves, and there on the left is Cedar Ridge Cemetery. I'm not sure what I was expecting...Something more secluded, or darker, tree-shaded, I dont know. The cemetery lies at the level of the road, with two or three paved paths leading into the graves themselves. The cemetery covers a slope, upon which I knew lay the grave of Princess Doe.
For some reason I didnt stop, but continued on for a short distance. Just past the cemetery, on the same side, is a large ballfield upon which a team of girls, probably of Princess Doe's age, were practicing. Just past this, the normal stuff of small town life--- a popular chain drug store on one side, a popular chain supermarket on the other. I stopped, then turned my SUV around. I'm not sure of the reason for my hesitation, I've spent countless hours in numerous cemeteries...Usually into the wee hours of the morning. But this was different for some reason.
I pulled the truck onto one of the service paths for the cemetery and stopped again. I just couldnt proceed. I told myself that it was because I didnt know the exact location of the grave, and that just wandering aimlessly was disrespectful. I know it was more though. I had to wonder how many times Princess Doe's grave had been visited by the curious, the morbid, those who had little interest in what had happened to this young lady but only in the horrific manner of her death.
It was at that point I realized that was the reason I was there as well.

I said a little prayer, asked her forgiveness, and pulled my truck back onto the roadway.
I do plan to go back, but with a different outlook in my heart and mind.

One thing that I did take away from the visit...I now find it much harder to believe that Princess Doe wound up here randomly. I just cant see that someone would choose this particular exit, travel the distance into Blairstown, and then pull into the cemetery and commit a murder. Even if she were killed elsewhere, it stretches even my imagination that someone would choose here to unceremoniously dump a body. I'm now convinced this was local---Someone in the town knows the truth.


Hi ShadowAngel,

I grew up in Blairstown and can answer a few of the questions in your post. The state police barracks that you noticed when getting off of route 80 at exit 12 was not there in July of 1982. The state police used to be located in the center of Blairstown, right above Seidel's Electric (you passed it when you were driving through the town itself.) One other thing worth noting is that there are two ways to get to the cemetery from route 80. You can take exit 4 (Columbia) on to route 94 north. Route 94 is pretty much a straight shot into Blairstown. Also, exit 4 is pretty much the last exit before you have to stop at the toll booth and enter Pennsylvania. Just wanted to provide some local info.

Thanks for your interest in the case

anthrobones
02-14-2010, 03:21 PM
Bumping this up. Did PDoe ever see my posts about two of the possible matches not being possible matches anymore?

s_v_c
02-24-2010, 02:08 PM
Hi Guys,

New to this forum, but I'm very interested in Princess Doe. Melinda Harder can be ruled out from the list of possibles - she has been found deceased.

I think Princess Doe (particularly the new computer composite) looks ALOT like Rachel Hanna Zisselman:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/73dfca.html

The smiles are almost identical (notice how the age progressed composite of Zisselman smiles EXACTLY the same as the computer composite of PD), as are the eyes, cheekbones, face shape, etc.

Zisselman fits age-wise, etc. - there's a large data gap/geographical gap, but with her going missing as young as she did, it is certainly not impossible.

s_v_c
03-12-2010, 02:57 PM
Thinking of Princess Doe today. Not forgotten!

s_v_c
03-24-2010, 02:08 PM
Thinking today of Princess Doe. I wish this thread was more active!

nola
03-27-2010, 11:46 PM
8335 8336
Does anybody think that Princess Doe could be Karen Reinert?
Can't find dentals for Karen Reinert to compare. Anybody looked at this as a match before?

Pdoe
07-15-2010, 08:20 AM
Bumping for the 28th anniversary of Princess Doe being found in Blairstown, NJ.

Pdoe
07-15-2010, 08:21 AM
Bumping up for the 28th anniversary of Princess Doe being found beaten to death in Blairstown, NJ.

CarlK90245
07-15-2010, 09:58 AM
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Missing%20Persons%20Photos/2807643090045078242S600x600Q851_zpse3f35c91.jpghtt p://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q697/Carlkopp90245/Facial%20Reconstructions%20002/2517471880045078242S425x425Q851_zpsad4f1850.jpg
Does anybody think that Princess Doe could be Karen Reinert?
Can't find dentals for Karen Reinert to compare. Anybody looked at this as a match before?

I like this one - Her teeth are identical. Her overall look is identical. And she was wearing a "Peasant blouse" when she was last seen (to match the "Peasant Skirt" that Princess Doe was wearing).

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/reinert_karen.html

Surprisingly, Karen Reinert is not on the Princess Doe Rule-out list, and this list actually looks like it's comprehensive (unlike the NamUs rule-out lists).

http://www.princessdoe.org/protected/new_match/poss_matchlist.php?start=76

They might have trouble getting DNA on Karen, unless her maternal grandmother is alive (or a maternal aunt or uncle, if she has one). Her mother was murdered at the time that she disappeared.

Cymro
07-15-2010, 02:47 PM
I like the look, the dentals as far as they go, the demographics, the location, and even the timescale doesn't really seem like too much of a problem in itself.

However I just cannot come up with a scenario in which Karen is kidnapped, her mother killed, her brother experiences an unknown fate... and then three years later, she turns up dead.

At least, that is, if William Bradfield was indeed guilty of the murder(s). In 1983, he was re-arrested almost immediately following his incarceration on fraud charges. He was therefore in prison at the time of Princess Doe's murder. Princess Doe had been looking for work before her death, so she may well have been a runaway - but I don't think that suggests she'd been a captive. If Karen had lived, I can't believe she'd not have come forward following her mother's murder.

Maybe this should be looked at anyway because the whole case reads like a preposterous movie plot - and while I don't like the idea of a rule out on circumstances, I can't see how this can be her.

CarlK90245
07-15-2010, 03:13 PM
I like the look, the dentals as far as they go, the demographics, the location, and even the timescale doesn't really seem like too much of a problem in itself.

However I just cannot come up with a scenario in which Karen is kidnapped, her mother killed, her brother experiences an unknown fate... and then three years later, she turns up dead.

At least, that is, if William Bradfield was indeed guilty of the murder(s). In 1983, he was re-arrested almost immediately following his incarceration on fraud charges. He was therefore in prison at the time of Princess Doe's murder. Princess Doe had been looking for work before her death, so she may well have been a runaway - but I don't think that suggests she'd been a captive. If Karen had lived, I can't believe she'd not have come forward following her mother's murder.

Maybe this should be looked at anyway because the whole case reads like a preposterous movie plot - and while I don't like the idea of a rule out on circumstances, I can't see how this can be her.

Bradfield was believed to have an accomplice, so maybe she was in the hands of the accomplice while he was incarcerated.

carbuff
07-15-2010, 04:40 PM
I remember that case -- freakin' bizarre, and that stone gives me nightmares.

The match on everything just seems too close to pass up.

Since he didn't have any problem with leaving the mother's body in the trunk, I don't see why he wouldn't have left the kids there too if he killed them at the time. Maybe he kidnapped them, kept them for a while, and then dumped them out on the streets somewhere.

Cymro
07-15-2010, 05:21 PM
I guess that he was being cautious, in a way.

If Bradfield did kill Susan (and I'm pretty convinced he did) then she had to be found, and found quickly for two reasons:

1. No body might have meant no life insurance payout; and
2. She had to be found quickly so that she would be identified and more to the point, found within such time that his alibi would hold (i.e., so he would have a complete alibi between her date of last contact and discovery of her body).

Meanwhile, the children were no more than a nuisance to him. Alive, they might have challenged the will or - worse - been witnesses. If their bodies were found it wouldn't have helped him but there could have been more physical evidence against him. There was certainly no need to transport the bodies away from where he was spending the weekend, where he had probably lured their mother.

If he could be sure that they wouldn't be found or identified, it would have been much less risky to dispose of the children's bodies near where they were killed. The likelihood is that the children's bodies were destroyed or dumped at sea. It's just barely conceivable that Karen was allowed to live in a Jaycee Dugard style hostage situation - perhaps as someone's reward for participating in the killing - but it seems unlikely. If somehow that did happen and Karen was Blairstown Doe, it is even less likely that, with a measure of freedom, she would have been looking for work rather than going right to the authorities.

As it was, Bradfield got lucky in that the body was cremated within 48 hours (!), the 911 call reporting the body (which he or an accomplice might have made) was overwritten because of calls due to the Three Mile Island incident, and the police initially had no idea that the children even existed. Part of the evidence against him was that no one else had the incentive to display the mother's body and dispose of the children's in that way.

nola
07-15-2010, 10:43 PM
I got the sick feeling that he could have sold her and her brother for profit after killing their mom. That, along with the (possible clue to her burial site) photo (which, to me, looked like it could have been taken in a cemetery) made me link Karen to Princess Doe.

chaddylex
07-16-2010, 10:25 AM
I remember not too long ago watching that whole William Bradford/Susan Reinhart story on Tru TV, it was on a show called Murder By The Book. Jay Smith the principal of the high school where Bradford and Reinhart worked was supposed to be in on the whole disapperance/ murder of Susan Reihnart and her children. He was convicted then it was later overturned and he was released from prison. Jay Smith died last year and never admitted any involvement in the the disapperance of the Reinhart children or Susan's death.

If I remember correctly, I believe that William Bradford visited New Jersey around the same time that Susan Reinhart was killed, he said he wanted to go to the beach... Wonder if he took her kids with him to New Jersey, sold them or gave the kids to someone there.... A few years later we have Princess Doe found dead in New Jersey...

I know my story might be a little far fetched, but I know stranger things have happened....

carbuff
07-16-2010, 11:13 AM
Found some interesting archived newspaper articles about the reasons why Jay Smith's conviction was overturned:

http://www.truthinjustice.org/jay-smith.htm

Yeah, there's a definite New Jersey connection. Some of the evidence pointed to the mother being taken to NJ and murdered there. I wonder if he didn't want to kill the kids if he didn't have to and thought that getting rid of them to somebody else in another state to keep them hidden was enough? Or if he injected the kids with morphine as he did the mother, then abandoned them and it turned out the dose wasn't fatal? I dunno, but it seems like there are a lot of things pointing to a match and not many pointing away.

chaddylex
07-16-2010, 12:43 PM
Found some interesting archived newspaper articles about the reasons why Jay Smith's conviction was overturned:

http://www.truthinjustice.org/jay-smith.htm

Yeah, there's a definite New Jersey connection. I wonder if he didn't want to kill the kids if he didn't have to and thought that getting rid of them to somebody else in another state to keep them hidden was enough? Or if he injected the kids with morphine as he did the mother, then abandoned them and it turned out the dose wasn't fatal? I dunno, but it seems like there are a lot of things pointing to a match and not many pointing away.

I agree carbuff...

Carl, since you are good at talking to LE, are you going to turn it in?? :)

CarlK90245
07-16-2010, 01:09 PM
I agree carbuff...

Carl, since you are good at talking to LE, are you going to turn it in?? :)

I left a voicemail message with Lt. Spiers of the Warren County Prosecutor's Office.

CarlK90245
07-16-2010, 04:24 PM
Lt. Spiers called me back, and we discussed this possibility. He pulled up the information on Karen's case as we spoke and he read through it briefly. He came off as being very receptive to the idea that Karen might be Princess Doe.

He was particularly intrigued with the New Jersey connections both with regard to the suspects and the evidence found on the mother's body. He also seemed to be quite impressed with the resemblance between her photo and the NCMEC facial reconstruction.

He agreed with my comment to him that given that both her parents are deceased, there may be difficulties in locating identifiers, but he said that he would contact Ardmore PA authorities to see if they can get anything on her.

As for circumstances, he had no problem with the possibility that something out of the ordinary might have happened. Given the multiple suspects, and that the mother's body was found, while those of Karen and her brother were not, the possibility of a three-year captive scenario is not out of the question.

Cymro
07-16-2010, 05:10 PM
There's not really a New Jersey connection at all here I'm afraid.

Karen disappeared from, essentially, Philadelphia. Bradfield went to Cape May on the weekend of the murder; Doe was found in Blairstown.

Both Cape May and Blairstown are around 100 miles away from Philly - but in opposite directions. While the geography looks good regardless, there's nothing about the Cape May visit that makes Blairstown a better possibility for a disposal site.

CarlK90245
07-16-2010, 05:42 PM
You're probably right, but that was what caught his attention as he was scanning through the narrative. I'm sure he's fielded plenty of calls for MP's from all over the country, and was happy to see something that was relatively local.

In that respect, Philadelphia is as close to being a "New Jersey" connection as anywhere in New Jersey, because Philly is just across the Delaware River from NJ. Besides, with a three-year lag, she could have been just about anywhere in the interim.

reasypeasy
07-17-2010, 08:00 AM
Lt. Spiers called me back, and we discussed this possibility. He pulled up the information on Karen's case as we spoke and he read through it briefly. He came off as being very receptive to the idea that Karen might be Princess Doe.

He was particularly intrigued with the New Jersey connections both with regard to the suspects and the evidence found on the mother's body. He also seemed to be quite impressed with the resemblance between her photo and the NCMEC facial reconstruction.

He agreed with my comment to him that given that both her parents are deceased, there may be difficulties in locating identifiers, but he said that he would contact Ardmore PA authorities to see if they can get anything on her.

As for circumstances, he had no problem with the possibility that something out of the ordinary might have happened. Given the multiple suspects, and that the mother's body was found, while those of Karen and her brother were not, the possibility of a three-year captive scenario is not out of the question.

Three years in the hands of someone smart and unscrupulous might well be enough to brainwash a kid into either loving her captor or fearing that she'll be blamed if caught, especially if she actually has done problematic things under co-ercion while in captivity, for example participated in violent acts against her brother.

chaddylex
07-17-2010, 09:32 PM
The whole Reinhart/Bradford story is just so unbelieveable. Who is to say what Bradford could have done with the children. I am glad that the Lt Spiers was receptive to the possibility that that Princess Doe could be Karen Reinhart. Princess Doe hasn't been identified so I didn't think it could hurt to have it checked into.

Wonder if Karen Reinhart has dentals somewhere....

CarlK90245
07-30-2010, 02:48 AM
The whole Reinhart/Bradford story is just so unbelieveable. Who is to say what Bradfield could have done with the children. I am glad that the Lt Spiers was receptive to the possibility that that Princess Doe could be Karen Reinhart. Princess Doe hasn't been identified so I didn't think it could hurt to have it checked into.

Wonder if Karen Reinhart has dentals somewhere....

I just finished reading Echoes In The Darkness, the Joseph Wambaugh book about the Reinert case. I was amazed at how William Bradfield could fancy himself as being so clever, and in reality, be so transparently inept. I was also amazed at how someone who was such a transparent B.S.'er could assemble such a following of minions, and how Susan Reinert could allow herself to be lead right into her own (and her children's) murder.

I came away from the book convinced that Bradfield was definitely guilty of conspiring to the murder, but was not actually the killer. The case against Jay Smith as the actual killer is a little more dicey. There was plenty of evidence in his behavior and taped comments to a jailhouse informant that indicated consciousness of guilt, but there wasn't much physical evidence that could not have been explained away as having been planted by Bradfield. And the possibility that Bradfield planted the physical evidence on Smith was somewhat plausible given Bradfield's M.O.

As for the possibility that Karen Reinert was not murdered for three years and became Princess Doe, it is an extreme longshot. However, there was never any hint as to what actually happened to Michael and Karen (or for that matter, what happened to Smith's daughter and son-in-law). It was presumed that Smith killed them, and possibly dissolved their bodies in acid, but there is no evidence of that actually happening.

The one little tantalizing tidbit comes at page 206 where Vince Valatis (one of Bradford's acolytes) pounds his fist on the table and tells Bradfield that he is not going to go to jail for him.

Bill Bradfield got mad too. He grabbed a piece of paper and a pencil and said "If I'm going to be blamed for murder, then I might as well admit it. Here, I'll show you how I did it."

He drew a square with a little line. He said "I took the children and I gave them to ..."

But Vince snatched the paper and crumpled it up and threw it on the floor, saying "Don't do that! Don't make things up!"

...

At a later time, he would swear that Bill Bradfield said "Smith." He would remember that it was "I gave them to Smith". Years and memories are tricky. Bill Bradfield may or may not have said "Smith". The implication seemed clear, but Vince learned that lawyers worry a great deal about such things.


That is the only time Bradfield ever came close to an admission of guilt.

chaddylex
07-30-2010, 09:59 AM
Carl,

Have you heard anything back from Detective Spiers about the comparision between Princess Doe and Karen Reinhart?

CarlK90245
07-30-2010, 11:34 AM
Carl,

Have you heard anything back from Detective Spiers about the comparision between Princess Doe and Karen Reinhart?

I talked to him last week, and he said that he had been tied up on something else for the previous two weeks, so he didn't get a chance to contact the PA authorities. He did say that he intends to do so though.

chaddylex
09-07-2010, 02:55 PM
Bumping this case up too? Any news?

CarlK90245
09-07-2010, 04:37 PM
Bumping this case up too? Any news?

I was just looking at this one on my list this morning and thinking it's due for a follow-up. I was busy though with several others that I was trying to get ahold of with no success.

CarlK90245
09-09-2010, 03:56 PM
I got in touch with Lt. Spiers. He said that he has inquiries out with various LE agencies on six possibles (including Karen Reinert), and he is waiting for responses. He said that waiting for a response is an unfortunate reality with many LE agencies. He was very personable, and told me to feel free to check in with him periodically. He also indicated that he would contact me if he found out anything.

BTW, the other possibles are from the list on the Princess Doe website.

nola
12-26-2010, 11:55 PM
Hey Carl-
Just thinking about Karen Reinert tonight and wondering if Lt Spiers has been in touch with you with any updates. Thanks again - hope you are having a great holiday season.

CarlK90245
12-27-2010, 12:12 AM
No word from him. I suppose I should make a follow-up call, though this one is a long-shot anyway.

BTW, good to see you again, Nola. I haven't seen you around this forum lately. :)

nola
12-27-2010, 10:11 PM
Hey Carl- good to be back -- thanks!
Since there's neither DNA nor dentals for Karen I know this (her) case is going to be difficult to compare to any UF. Just hopeful that somehow Karen and her brother will be located someday. No relatives on her Mom's side are living, right?
Hope you are enjoying the holiday season!

CarlK90245
12-27-2010, 10:46 PM
Hey Carl- good to be back -- thanks!
Since there's neither DNA nor dentals for Karen I know this (her) case is going to be difficult to compare to any UF. Just hopeful that somehow Karen and her brother will be located someday. No relatives on her Mom's side are living, right?
Hope you are enjoying the holiday season!

I think I recall seeing somewhere that Susan Reinert's brother is still living.