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Turnadot
06-22-2011, 11:50 AM
Hey guys, I think finding the Gatorade bottle with testosterone is significant for the DT. It's possible that Iorn Man, or Incredible Hulk was at the site, and could have manipulated evidence on behalf of the State.

MaryAnn
06-22-2011, 11:50 AM
Lowe compared fabric of duct tape (where remains found) to tape from home- results -dissimilar - not same source #caseyanthonytrial -jfell
by cfnews13casey via twitter at 10:39 AM



Probably because she used Amy's duck tape. ICA was thinking ahead, already trying to pin it on Amy. It wasn't enough she stole her money!

Linda7NJ
06-22-2011, 11:50 AM
JA and JB all buddy buddy now it seems.

I was waiting for Jeff to pat Jose on the head:floorlaugh:

FaerieB
06-22-2011, 11:50 AM
bobkealing bob kealing
#CaseyAnthony #Ashton and #Baez butting heads but doing so with smiles on their faces. Break continues.

pinkfly
06-22-2011, 11:50 AM
Who asked for the sidebar that lead to a recess?

gamom
06-22-2011, 11:51 AM
JB has changed his defense strategy. It's no longer "Caylee drowned" but "if Caylee had been murdered there should have been evidence on every single item ever associated with the Anthony home or the car"

Look for him to call Amy to the stand and say that "Kc is not smart enough to pull this off by herself" The defense is going to argue that there should have been more evidence if KC did it since she is "not smart enough"

The state will say, "She was lucky. Not smart. Time washed away important evidence. The time was wasted while we were looking for a live child"

RR0004
06-22-2011, 11:51 AM
IMHO...the Gatorade bottle has nothing to do with how Caylee died. It was trash.

Miziree
06-22-2011, 11:51 AM
Judge Perry just excused #caseyanthony jury for 10 min. HUGE shout-out to this jury. Lives on hold now for 25 days & counting. Our thanks!
by abcashleigh via twitter at 8:48 AM

chasing.halos
06-22-2011, 11:51 AM
http://itsamysterytome.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/caylee-sitting-down.png

texaslb218
06-22-2011, 11:51 AM
JB's neck stretching is annoying. I guess it is an uncontrollable tic. Maybe he needs a shirt with a bigger collar.
IMO, it's a stress tic. I see this a lot as knuckle cracking, back popping,with the neck snap.

liltexans
06-22-2011, 11:51 AM
Judge Perry stepped out of courtroom for a minute.
by cfnews13casey via twitter at 10:50 AM

Ms.Heather
06-22-2011, 11:51 AM
Well, whoever disposed of the syringe sure did take great care in concealing it... in a bag, in a bottle, in a toilet paper roll, with the cap on the bottle. Weird.

Its not weird. Thats normal. My ex was a bodybuilder and use to inject himself all the time... the used syringe ALWAYS went into a bottle with the wrapper, and whatever he could fit in there. Capped and trashed.

STEADFAST
06-22-2011, 11:51 AM
This is the LKB school of defense tactics, doesn't matter if your witnesses crash and burn, call as many as you can and hopefully along the way you will bore the jury to death. With a bit of luck they will tune out and they may think you have scored a point while they were being inattentive.....

Speaking of being inattentive. I was going along reading here, looking up links as info came up, etc., thinking about how boring the trial is today. Then I read a post about how George looks sad, looked up at my screen, minimized WS and realized that my player had stopped playing the trial some time back. I didn't even have the trial on! :loser:

Whisperer
06-22-2011, 11:51 AM
.....Defense should have rested after the State Case. All they have achieved is mummifying the jury. Then again, that may be there goal.

This is a very poor defense.

gamom
06-22-2011, 11:52 AM
I was waiting for Jeff to pat Jose on the head:floorlaugh:

:floorlaugh:Even JA feels bad ripping JB's witnesses apart. It is like stealing candy for a baby. JA is thinking "man, this is just too easy"

What'sThatClue
06-22-2011, 11:52 AM
I'm wondering when the home was searched for the duct tape? After the remains were found? Because prior to the remains being found wasn't GA using that same duct tape on posters? Maybe he used it all...

manatee
06-22-2011, 11:52 AM
Probably because she used Amy's duck tape. ICA was thinking ahead, already trying to pin it on Amy. It wasn't enough she stole her money!

didn't ICA attend a memorial day party where they used duct tape? I vaguely remember some mentione of that in some text messages. Any one recall?

Sleuth5
06-22-2011, 11:52 AM
JB's neck stretching is annoying. I guess it is an uncontrollable tic. Maybe he needs a shirt with a bigger collar.

Nah, he just senses that noose.

pinkfly
06-22-2011, 11:53 AM
Bill S said judge needed this recess to make phone call and maybe to be a little late to budget meeting. Looks like the ‘boys’ had to also agree to something

cityslick
06-22-2011, 11:53 AM
IMHO...the Gatorade bottle has nothing to do with how Caylee died. It was trash.

You're probably right but it is a coincidence that there was chloroform in the bottle next to a body that is suspected of being in a trunk full of chloroform. Is chloroform used on a regular basis that you can find it among trash?

Linda7NJ
06-22-2011, 11:53 AM
IMHO...the Gatorade bottle has nothing to do with how Caylee died. It was trash.


IMO It's nothing of evidencry value. BUT those jurors favorable to the prosecution are wondering how it may fit in...speculating on horrific possibilites like so many folks here

Phoebeb
06-22-2011, 11:53 AM
They also can be taken from someone they may know who works at a place where they have them. I wonder if they tried to match the syringe with any that were at CA's work...does anyone know?

Do body builders who use testosterone mix their own testosterone or purchase it in syringes? Maybe ICA picked it up at one of her boyfriends' houses along the way?

katydid23
06-22-2011, 11:53 AM
They can read the names of who? Whose names are they reading? I am lost. Dazed and confused.

liltexans
06-22-2011, 11:54 AM
Not sure I agree“@MaddiesMama: @bobkealing It seems as if more are taking notes during the defense case.

by bobkealing via twitter at 10:53 AM

Lexiintoronto
06-22-2011, 11:54 AM
JB's neck stretching is annoying. I guess it is an uncontrollable tic. Maybe he needs a shirt with a bigger collar.

Even his hair bothers me at this point.

Shelby1
06-22-2011, 11:54 AM
bobkealing (http://twitter.com/#%21/bobkealing) bob kealing



#CaseyAnthony (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23CaseyAnthony) jury laughing it up again in jury room

fifteen89
06-22-2011, 11:54 AM
Looking at Casey standing next to DS, I don't think there's any question why her chair is so much lower than the others.

newsjunkie
06-22-2011, 11:54 AM
didn't ICA attend a memorial day party where they used duct tape? I vaguely remember some mentione of that in some text messages. Any one recall?

IIRC that was gaffe tape and determined to be different.

bobloblaw
06-22-2011, 11:54 AM
You're probably right but it is a coincidence that there was chloroform in the bottle next to a body that is suspected of being in a trunk full of chloroform. Is chloroform used on a regular basis that you can find it among trash?

Yes chlorine, found in many cleaning products.

RR0004
06-22-2011, 11:54 AM
Multiple threads...here's #3

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91436&highlight=gatorade

gamom
06-22-2011, 11:54 AM
IMHO...the Gatorade bottle has nothing to do with how Caylee died. It was trash.

That is the only link between Caylee and the Syringe. They were both tossed like trash. :sick:

pinkfly
06-22-2011, 11:54 AM
we need to clear up that duct tape question.....waiting for JA to save the day

Oakley
06-22-2011, 11:55 AM
Bob Kealing is tweeting that more jurors are taking notes for defense than for state.

Could be they are trying to make sense of what the defense is presenting.

<Good luck with that, IMO>

i.b.nora
06-22-2011, 11:55 AM
Seems to me, this 'dissimilar' duct tape statement is significant. The bottle and the testosterone is meaningless, imo.

Scamperoo
06-22-2011, 11:55 AM
Probably because she used Amy's duck tape. ICA was thinking ahead, already trying to pin it on Amy. It wasn't enough she stole her money!

Cindy testified to there being multiple rolls of duct tape in the home, while George was putting up posters he put them up with the Henkle duct tape, one presumes he simply ran out of it.

I am sure there are pictures and video of George subsequently, using other duct tape.

whiteangora
06-22-2011, 11:55 AM
You're probably right but it is a coincidence that there was chloroform in the bottle next to a body that is suspected of being in a trunk full of chloroform. Is chloroform used on a regular basis that you can find it among trash?
The coincidences in this case are mind blowing.

smeck
06-22-2011, 11:56 AM
Nah, he just senses that noose.

What does that mean?

Tiki
06-22-2011, 11:56 AM
IMHO...the Gatorade bottle has nothing to do with how Caylee died. It was trash.

IMO
gatorade bottle and contents = reasonable doubt


ETA: not to me, but in DT's theory

TortillaChip
06-22-2011, 11:56 AM
Yes, all these hairs were found, but none with decomp band..........

Mountain_Kat
06-22-2011, 11:57 AM
Dumpsite...someone's hair fell out and landed there. This person was white. Thus proving it was Kronk.

Case solved.

Insomnia Momma
06-22-2011, 11:57 AM
The coincidences in this case are mind blowing.

And none of them (IMO) make the inmate look less guilty :)

wenwe4
06-22-2011, 11:57 AM
JA and JB have stipulated that not every

Ms. Lowe - found an unidentified human caucasion hair - Q-107 collection paper from scene- prompted you to do further examination of other individuals who were @ scene - correct.....March 30, 2009...can you tell who the individuals were tested...one head hair from Robyn Maynard...one from Mancowitz.....one from Cardiallio,,,sara cobel...carrie wood, jenny welch, gerardo blaise...not an exhaustive list or complete of those who could be potential donors.....microscopically dissimilar to all of those listed...dissimilar to Q-59 hair mass...dissimilar to Kc, dissilimilar to all known samples in this case... these are known samplses I was given...

Turnadot
06-22-2011, 11:57 AM
Seems to me, this 'dissimilar' duct tape statement is significant. The bottle and the testosterone is meaningless, imo.
Not if KC tossed the roll she actually used.

Chili Fries
06-22-2011, 11:58 AM
Well, whoever disposed of the syringe sure did take great care in concealing it... in a bag, in a bottle, in a toilet paper roll, with the cap on the bottle. Weird.

My guess is a neighborhood teen using testosterone who didn't want parents or anybody to find out about it.

KariKae
06-22-2011, 11:58 AM
The gatorade bottle with testosterone does not surprise me. There was a bag of trash in her car. She did live in an apartment full of young men. It seems somebody did try to conceal the syringe in the tube of tp. The gatorade bottle could have rolled out of the trash bag. KC could have thrown it in the disney bag in an attempt to remove all evidence from her trunk.

Tulessa
06-22-2011, 11:58 AM
Bob Kealing is tweeting that more jurors are taking notes for defense than for state.

Could be they are trying to make sense of what the defense is presenting.

<Good luck with that, IMO>

So, JB confuses them too? :doh:

pinkfly
06-22-2011, 11:58 AM
the rogue hairs are present and accounted for....but do they mean anything? What ‘isn’t’ should not matter as much as what ‘is’. Hope the jury is not getting lost in all the ‘isn’t’ info.

newsjunkie
06-22-2011, 11:58 AM
Not if KC tossed the roll she actually used.

Or if GA used it all up taping up flyers to find a live Caylee.

Eidetic
06-22-2011, 11:58 AM
I think she used the syringe to extract the chloroform after she made it and it settled. From what I have read, a seperation funnel should be used to extract it from a glass bottle (it should never be kept in plastic). Two more fails for ICA.

FYI, I have read chloroform should never be kept for longer than a week after it is made because it begins decomposing.

FaerieB
06-22-2011, 11:58 AM
I don't know if there was a needle, just a syringe...

Sorry it's taken so long to respond. I had to track down the photos again. There was a needle. (see attachments)

kpalma715
06-22-2011, 11:58 AM
Do body builders who use testosterone mix their own testosterone or purchase it in syringes? Maybe ICA picked it up at one of her boyfriends' houses along the way?

They purchase it in a bottle and put it in the syringe themselves from my knowledge. They will also buy the syringes seperately from the dealer or the doctor whoever they get it from.

coloradoteacher
06-22-2011, 11:59 AM
Bob Kealing is tweeting that more jurors are taking notes for defense than for state.

Could be they are trying to make sense of what the defense is presenting.

<Good luck with that, IMO>

Or to stop the boredom and monotony???? I know I did that in some of my more boring college classes...

kpalma715
06-22-2011, 11:59 AM
Sorry it's taken so long to respond. I had to track down the photos again. There was a needle. (see attachments)

Thank you!!!! I thought I saw a picture of it before, I just couldn't remember! :)

QueenD
06-22-2011, 11:59 AM
Do body builders who use testosterone mix their own testosterone or purchase it in syringes? Maybe ICA picked it up at one of her boyfriends' houses along the way?

Testerone is also given to women in peri-menopause and menopause. It is already mixed in a syringe all you do is pop the needle on. And also given to women to form muscles who may be small and want muscles mass.
Hint Hint ICA.

pinkfly
06-22-2011, 12:00 PM
Cross time....JA up

Whaleshark
06-22-2011, 12:00 PM
well if the duct tape is dissimilar, i think it helps to show that GA didn't use his duct tape on Caylee, as the DT was trying to imply....and helps backup that she used Amy's tape

Scamperoo
06-22-2011, 12:00 PM
IMO
gatorade bottle and contents = reasonable doubt


ETA: not to me, but in DT's theory



Reasonable doubt of what ?

bobloblaw
06-22-2011, 12:00 PM
Sorry it's taken so long to respond. I had to track down the photos again. There was a needle. (see attachments)

Thanks for clearing that up!

technicalconfusion
06-22-2011, 12:00 PM
Or to stop the boredom and monotony???? I know I did that in some of my more boring college classes...

Could be a way to stay awake...

BigFatMommyDog
06-22-2011, 12:00 PM
(o/t gah! lost power 14 hours ago just back now)

Yay! JA - hoped he would clear up the relevance or lack of with q107

Turnadot
06-22-2011, 12:01 PM
well if the duct tape is dissimilar, i think it helps to show that GA didn't use his duct tape on Caylee, as the DT was trying to imply....and helps backup that she used Amy's tape
This works, too.

tehcloser
06-22-2011, 12:01 PM
He didn't clear up the duct tape.............hmmmmmmmmmm.

cecybeans
06-22-2011, 12:01 PM
JB sounds so reluctant when he says "any REdirect? on those issues?"

Beyond Belief
06-22-2011, 12:02 PM
moving on, next............

Phoebeb
06-22-2011, 12:02 PM
My guess- she ran cleaning fluid thru the syringe to wipe out the chloroform.

I'll bet that Disney bag was always in the trunk to medicate Caylee with something. If the ICA's parents saw it, perfect! It's a Disney bag they can't see inside! When she disposed of the body, she didn't need the bag anymore since Caylee was dead. Tossed it!

Mountain_Kat
06-22-2011, 12:02 PM
Bunch of nothing. Thanks for wasting my morning.

mombomb
06-22-2011, 12:02 PM
Jury coming back (11:52)

DIRECT EXAMINATION OF KAREN LOWE BY JB - continued

Unidentified hair (Q-107) on collection paper from the scene.

She then referred to her 3/30/10 report.

Other individuals tested - Robin Maynard, Christine Mankiewicz, Melissa Cardiello, Sarah Coervel, Kelly Wood, Gerardo Bloise and Jenny Welch.

Stipulation that this is not a complete list of people at the scene.

She was able to exclude these people and ICA and Caylee.

Currently the hair is unidentified.

6/25/09 report.

Any found in the items from the scene were compared to the hair mass and none were consistent.

9 reports - Number of hairs inspected that did not have signs of apparent decomp? She said that there could be hundreds of hairs.

Only one had signs of apparent decomp.

No further questions.

CROSS EXAMINATION BY JA

The 107 hair, it came from collection paper from some item but she doesn't know what relation it had to the scene.

The hair with apparent decomp was reported as being found in the car trunk.

She does not know (7-15 - 7/16) where ICA was living.

No further questions.

REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY JB

If she had been given items from where ICA was living those 30 days, she would have examined them. She was never given anything.

Witness is excused.

i.b.nora
06-22-2011, 12:02 PM
Not if KC tossed the roll she actually used.
Well, of course. My instant thought was how many rolls of Henkels duct tape were in the Anthony house prior to June 15, 2008.

Donjeta
06-22-2011, 12:02 PM
Okay so if the unknown hair was not on Caylee or the bag she was in it's a non-issue to me.

One of the trash dumpers may have shed some hair or something.

pinkfly
06-22-2011, 12:02 PM
Did Jeff just want to make sure she is done and excused....yes she is.

Leila
06-22-2011, 12:02 PM
So, does anyone still think the DT is even going to launch an attack on Kronk in their CIC?? Or call GA to the stand for that matter.

Seems I see a shift in defense. They seem to be highlighting what the State DIDN'T find in the evidence. Huge shift from what they claimed in OS.

Yes............the defense so far has been experts and trying to undermine the state's presentation.

BUT............JB's opening statement is out there, lurking in the background. Even though the jury can't consider opening statements as evidence in their deliberations, they will wonder what that was all about.

Beyond Belief
06-22-2011, 12:03 PM
wow done for the day, seeya.........

Novice Seeker
06-22-2011, 12:03 PM
Sorry it's taken so long to respond. I had to track down the photos again. There was a needle. (see attachments)


Now aint that something...this gauge sized needle would be found in a home health care facility, or if someone was using it to administer a suspect substance

wenwe4
06-22-2011, 12:03 PM
items from scene were not suitable for comparison or dissimilar to hair mass...issued 9 different reports....excluding hair mass Q-59 from Caylee...how many hairs you inspected? not number that she count....many items had hairs - hundreds of hairs only one....objet overrule - from different locations, home, car, residence....includes kc's entire closet - object not in evidence - id'd from kc's closet


cross - JA
one hair #107 from colletion paper from some item don't know what item....don't know ...hair found with apparant decomp came from kc car trunk - identified....during 6/16 to 7/16 where kc was living @ house where clothes collected..don't know...

redirect on those issues?

Jb -if you would have been given items from where kc was living ...if they were given to me I could...never given any? no sir

witness excuse?

JA - excused without provisions or requirements- subject to recall - return back home.

concludes presentation today....he has an obligation - see you in morning...extend working hours on Saturday

Jetaime
06-22-2011, 12:03 PM
HHJP: Will extend working hrs on Sat.

Quiche
06-22-2011, 12:03 PM
Done for the day.

nursebeeme
06-22-2011, 12:04 PM
wasn't there supposed to be a frye hearing tonight???

ExpectingUnicorns
06-22-2011, 12:04 PM
He didn't clear up the duct tape.............hmmmmmmmmmm.

I'm concerned about this. The witness described the difference in makeup between the horizontal or vertical fibers only. Earlier I had thought the difference was due to erosion by elements. But that would be an overall change, not only in horizontal or vertical fibers. This doesn't look good. moo

Z-sleuth
06-22-2011, 12:04 PM
It's a good thing the jury has the afternoon off so they can grab some Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz's after that riveting testimony. JB is a master of trial strategy. LOL

azwriter
06-22-2011, 12:04 PM
Maybe Casey was taking testosterone.



http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/testosterone-therapy/AN01390

Well, in the scheme of things from the world of the defense, I'm sure they are going to say this bottle and needle belonged to either Roy Kronk or George. jmo

miimaa
06-22-2011, 12:05 PM
My guess is a neighborhood teen using testosterone who didn't want parents or anybody to find out about it.

Could the 'testosterone' have been $perm?

Donjeta
06-22-2011, 12:05 PM
Friday DT needs to give a guestimate when they're finished, not to rush them but because there is going to be rebuttal testimony and give them an idea when.

Turnadot
06-22-2011, 12:05 PM
Well, of course. My instant thought was how many rolls of Henkels duct tape were in the Anthony house prior to June 15, 2008.
According to Cindy, they had many rolls of duct tape. Henkel brand though? I don't know, but I'd think they tended to buy the same brand. Also, as someone mentioned earlier, KC could have used Amy H's duct tape.

IMO, this is a matter for the State's rebuttal.

We shall see.

I'm not concerned about it though. Yet.

ami
06-22-2011, 12:05 PM
JB: "Thank God it's Wednesday!"

HHJP: Yes, and then comes Thursday, Friday and Saturday.

wenwe4
06-22-2011, 12:05 PM
On Friday - ask DT give best guesstimate of when going to wrap up....present where they present some rebuttal testimony ...need idea of when they need to have rebuttal go from there....

JB ?

see you in the morning - start @ 9 with testimony any matters take up @ 8:30

tgi'Wednesday.....Thurs, Friday, Sat, mon and tues.

it is what it is Mr. Mason

Harmony2
06-22-2011, 12:06 PM
<<<<<<<<<< Side Bar Thread >>>>>>


2011.06.22 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-five) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

coloradoteacher
06-22-2011, 12:06 PM
What did the defense say about when they will wrap up their cic?? I couldn't hear him?

Eidetic
06-22-2011, 12:06 PM
HJBP reminds everyone court will begin at 9:00am tomorrow morning, 8:30am for other matters.

tragco
06-22-2011, 12:06 PM
What did CM say there at the end? Did he say "except for me"? Couldn't hear, but I will be surprised if he stays all day Saturday. I think he already said earlier that pro bono work only goes so far.

STEADFAST
06-22-2011, 12:06 PM
I demand my sleep back!

Scamperoo
06-22-2011, 12:07 PM
I'm concerned about this. The witness described the difference in makeup between the horizontal or vertical fibers only. Earlier I had thought the difference was due to erosion by elements. But that would be an overall change, not only in horizontal or vertical fibers. This doesn't look good. moo

All the duct tape found at the scene was Henkle duct tape, came off the same roll as did the duct tape on the gas can.

Donjeta
06-22-2011, 12:07 PM
Could the 'testosterone' have been $perm?

No, IMO. If there was sperm IMO they'd have said so, because it would help the DT molestation case and I don't think sperm disintegrates to mere testosterone. But I'm not a chemist.

technicalconfusion
06-22-2011, 12:07 PM
Friday DT needs to give a guestimate when they're finished, not to rush them but because there is going to be rebuttal testimony and give them an idea when.

Egads we may never find out!

Whisperer
06-22-2011, 12:07 PM
Didn't lee go get all of her clothes? Cindy went through all of them. Dollars to donuts, everything went in the washing machine..

nursebeeme
06-22-2011, 12:07 PM
move on over to the sidebar: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6734081&posted=1#post6734081 doors closing very soon

Nana46
06-22-2011, 12:08 PM
That was a cute little exchange between the accused and her atty and can someone tell me why she always points to the door she is to exit right after the guard has already pointed to said door?:banghead:

Harmony2
06-22-2011, 12:08 PM
<<<<<<<<<< Side Bar Thread >>>>>>


2011.06.22 Sidebar Thread (Trial Day Twenty-five) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140976)

closing trial thread

Wise Old Owl
06-22-2011, 12:24 PM
Didn't lee go get all of her clothes? Cindy went through all of them. Dollars to donuts, everything went in the washing machine..
CA did a long disertation on the clothes that LA went and got. She went on about how they all smelled of smoke from 'that' apartment and so she washed them, folded them and they sat on ICA's bed for quite a while. CA said she "offered them up" or reminded LE she had these clothes a couple of times and no one ever came and looked at them or took them.

Please don't ask for a link - its probably in one of her depo's - the FBI is the one that comes to mind first.