2011.06.23 TRIAL Day Twenty-six (Afternoon Session) [Archive] - Page 3

ZsaZsa

06-23-2011, 02:26 PM

To the defense: You can't impeach an expert about his expert opinion unless you have another expert who came to a different conclusion.

I heard him say that to JA, but what happens when the SA knows more about the subject than the expert? It would seem proper to be able to go on questioning and challenging his findings.... JMO

Eidetic

06-23-2011, 02:26 PM

KBelichWFTVKathi Belich, WFTV
Logan never saw the evidence from trunk and state says his lab would not be able to test it if he had gotten it

31 minutes ago

KBelichWFTVKathi Belich, WFTV
FBI special agent Nick Savage is waiting in wings upstairs.. State is taking on Logan's expertise ina big way..

33 minutes ago

KBelichWFTVKathi Belich, WFTV
Dr. Logan resigned under controversy, according to reports, in 2008 from a Washington State lab because of doubts over its DUI test results

2 hours ago

Macushla

06-23-2011, 02:26 PM

Does anyone think Simms caused this problem, asking questions that almost opened the door for the State, because she is not used to the nuances of a criminal trial?

newsjunkie

06-23-2011, 02:26 PM

Not sure why this is so hard to figure out . . . it seems if the defense asked if he could replicate the test, why can't Ashton ask more about that?

If I understand correctly (correct me if I'm wrong), it is because it is not the DT's burden to prove anything. It is the State's. So their witness didn't HAVE to test anything and can't be impeached or whatever due to not testing it.

NavySubMom

06-23-2011, 02:26 PM

To the defense: You can't impeach an expert about his expert opinion unless you have another expert who came to a different conclusion.

So for this case in particular, does this mean they cannot Impeach Dr. Vass's expert opinion, when they themselves do not have another expert opinion?? If that is the case, i understand what is going on here now.

HotButteredGrits

06-23-2011, 02:27 PM

What scares me is that if it's a mistrial because of the prosecutors mistake, then it's possible for the defense to argue double-jeopardy and she could win that and walk.

stilettos

06-23-2011, 02:27 PM

This dud is WAY out of his element. I do not think that the DT prepared him for the bulldog JA can be.

Dr.Fessel

06-23-2011, 02:27 PM

Beyond Belief

06-23-2011, 02:27 PM

if this ends in a mistrial how long will it take to reschedule?

Rallihanna

06-23-2011, 02:27 PM

I really don't think they're going to call a mistrial because JA put pieces of evidence up on the witness stand.

LadyL

06-23-2011, 02:27 PM

judge takes a 10 minute recess and tells both sides to review case law - I think he just needed a breather from the circus

TotallyObsessed

06-23-2011, 02:27 PM

Does anyone think Simms caused this problem, asking questions that almost opened the door for the State, because she is not used to the nuances of a criminal trial?

Well, it is either ineptness...or something more sinister. :maddening:

Steely Dan

06-23-2011, 02:27 PM

ohiogirl

06-23-2011, 02:27 PM

I just heard Sunny Hostin on HLN asking why didn't the defense just embrace the body in the trunk and say George put her there.

I've said that and wondered why they didn't do so all this time, too. Neither side can prove who put Caylee in the trunk and even though it's pretty absolutely clear that Casey put Caylee's body there, her defense could still have been that it was George who did it. The defense wouldn't have to ineptly hammer away with one nervous, ill prepared expert after another.

At least, that's the way I feel after having to take excedrin every day now.

Even though I'm of the opinion that Caylee died as a result of an accident, I also believe that the "accident" was a form of negligence and/or abuse caused by Casey's complete lack of putting Caylee's safety and needs first.

I think about little Caylee Marie Anthony every time I watch this trial or read about it. Her death is heartbreaking. She deserved a chance to grow up and live her life. God bless her soul.

IMO, for some reason JB was bound and determined to have RK involved in this in some way. I agree, just admit she was in the trunk and maybe KC didn't know right away or something. But, in his arrogance that he was going to get her a complete acquittal, he made his story too convoluted and complicated. That my opinion, and I'm sticking too it. :seeya:

mitzi

06-23-2011, 02:28 PM

Do we know where HHJP went?

Did he go to his chambers, like Judge Judy does to make a phone call....perhaps to a Florida Supreme Court Judge friend of his to get their take on this? :)

Clearly Confused

06-23-2011, 02:28 PM

Mountain_Kat

06-23-2011, 02:28 PM

Possible mistrial? Someone please explain.

State possibly shifting burden of proof to the defense, I think. But that is allowed in some cases...we're just waiting to see how HHJP rules.

nursebeeme

06-23-2011, 02:28 PM

Does anyone think Simms caused this problem, asking questions that almost opened the door for the State, because she is not used to the nuances of a criminal trial?

yes, I think Simms made a boo boo and wesh talking heads saying that hhjp trying to save the trial from a mistrial

dog.gone.cute

06-23-2011, 02:28 PM

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-transport009.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-transport004.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)

momtective

06-23-2011, 02:29 PM

B Sheifer discussing possible mistrial on wftv http://www.wftv.com/caseyanthony/index.html

Wishbone

06-23-2011, 02:29 PM

Oh, so the DT once again puts this whole case in jeopardy of a mistrial.

TotallyObsessed

06-23-2011, 02:29 PM

OK. Is the DT really, really trying for a mistrial. They keep cracking that door. And I don't blame JA for wanting to ram a Mack Truck through it. This team of DT lawyers is just about the equivalent of Larry, Curly and Moe.

ami

06-23-2011, 02:29 PM

What scares me is that if it's a mistrial because of the prosecutors mistake, then it's possible for the defense to argue double-jeopardy and she could win that and walk.

I think HHJP is being so careful right now exactly because of this. So let's not worry if he rules in favor of the defense on this one. The Prosecution has tons of evidence - they can afford to let this lame witness say what he wants, even if it's anti-Vass. Vass can come in later and refute anything this guy says anyway. JA was right to say he'd let go of this line of questioning.

Snaz

06-23-2011, 02:29 PM

JA is willing to withdraw question and HHJP is not so quick to let him walk away from it.

Do you know why? I'm so confused!!

ohiogirl

06-23-2011, 02:29 PM

For that guy to say he could not replicate the test is udder nonsense. Why don't they just strike that answer or go ahead and let the State impeach him? Maybe that is what the judge is waiting for, the State to ask to strike that answer?

I don't know if he can ask to strike the answer? Especially if he didn't object to it right away? Correct me if I'm wrong.

liltexans

06-23-2011, 02:29 PM

Judge Perry is trying to save the trial from a mistrial. We are 5 weeks in.
by Jessica Steck/WESH.com at 1:28 PM

It looks like this problem put the case at the closest to a risk for mistrial we've seen yet.
by Jeff Cousins/WESH.com at 1:28 PM

mollymil23

06-23-2011, 02:29 PM

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff258/truckthis/emoticons/thTR5TruckDriver2.gif?t=1263514735

JSR

06-23-2011, 02:29 PM

I could just smack DS for doing this. How many times has the DT made HUGE blunders??? Way too many times!!!

pinkfly

06-23-2011, 02:29 PM

JA was very willing to drop it....kind of a shot across the bow sort of thing anyhow

Camille

06-23-2011, 02:29 PM

He said they would be capable of doing that test then during break he said they didn't have the correct machine. JA should go ahead and ask him at least to that point just to prove he's lying.

wenwe4

06-23-2011, 02:29 PM

Do we know where HHJP went?

Did he go to his chambers, like Judge Judy does to make a phone call....perhaps to a Florida Supreme Court Judge friend of his to get their take on this? :)

My guess is he went to find the Dessert lady......chocolate to calm the nerves!

whiteangora

06-23-2011, 02:30 PM

yes, I think Simms made a boo boo and wesh talking heads saying that hhjp trying to save the trial from a mistrial
She should have stuck to her malpractice suit specialty.

jon_burrows

06-23-2011, 02:30 PM

Does anyone think Simms caused this problem, asking questions that almost opened the door for the State, because she is not used to the nuances of a criminal trial?

Yes.

IMO

LittleBitty35

06-23-2011, 02:30 PM

This DT does not want to finish this trial. They know they are going to lose. This is insane. This is not ineffective counsel, this is trying for a mistrial. So sad this is what our justice system comes down to.

ITA. When someone has the upper hand, break it. JMO. JB and Co are outmatched, (IMO) outclassed...there is no other option but the fail safe button for them.

BigFatMommyDog

06-23-2011, 02:30 PM

Well, it is either ineptness...or something more sinister. :maddening:

yep...

stilettos

06-23-2011, 02:30 PM

The witness was a deer in the headlights when JA smacked that evidence down in front of him...I bet he gets all whiny to JB and CM today.

JenniferTx

06-23-2011, 02:30 PM

This dud is WAY out of his element. I do not think that the DT prepared him for the bulldog JA can be.

When I first read your post I thought you meant dude but now I see it is dud. Funny :floorlaugh:

tehcloser

06-23-2011, 02:30 PM

I really don't think they're going to call a mistrial because JA put pieces of evidence up on the witness stand.

It's over shifting the burden.........not putting evidence up there.

21merc7

06-23-2011, 02:30 PM

if this ends in a mistrial how long will it take to reschedule?

Months at least. All of the players have other cases, and the Judge actually has even more work on top of that. To reschedule could even mean next year, given the length of the trial.

HHJP will come back with more caselaw and clearer thoughts on the issue at hand.

Rock meet hard place right now.

Elley Mae

06-23-2011, 02:30 PM

http://www.nmslab.com/about-leadership-logan Their Logo reads "When you need to know" your using the nation's premier independent testing service. Sounds like for paternity and drug testing.

grandmaj

06-23-2011, 02:30 PM

Simms went to far and now the Judge is trying to save the trial. She should not have gone down that road and once again they can violate rules of the procedure and then demand remedy.

TUSK

06-23-2011, 02:30 PM

jp screwed up letting ds go on with this line of questioning ,after ja objected to it.
now jp has got to clean up the mess or it will be a solid basis for appeal.

pcrum12

06-23-2011, 02:30 PM

Possible mistrial? Someone please explain.

Burden of Proof shifting to Defense. In criminal law the defense does not have to do anything to include testing, witnesses anything and it can't be used against them for the burden lies solely on the Prosecution.

ETA: When JA asked the witness if he had seen any of the cans and he said no JA then asked if the DT had asked him to test it or if he had tested it - giving jury impression that the defense should have and yet law says they don't have to.

Okay now I'm confusing myself lol.

Blue Ridge

06-23-2011, 02:31 PM

What scares me is that if it's a mistrial because of the prosecutors mistake, then it's possible for the defense to argue double-jeopardy and she could win that and walk.

I thought double jeopardy only applied when someone had actually been aquitted....that they could never ever be tried again for that same crime. No?

TuffysMom

06-23-2011, 02:31 PM

Hey everyone! I'm new and confused...

Were Vass' results published in peer-reviewed literature? If not, it's not subject to being "retested" or replicated. He was doing this testing for the State of Florida, right? That is, the State is his client. I would think the testing would be proprietary. Anyone know for sure?

Mountain_Kat

06-23-2011, 02:31 PM

Why didn't HHJP allow JA to withdraw the question, I wonder? Both sides here can just let this go, can't they?

sappysoul

06-23-2011, 02:31 PM

To the defense: You can't impeach an expert about his expert opinion unless you have another expert who came to a different conclusion.

I don't understand why the judge let him testify to that then? Did he not know what the DT was going to use him for? It would seem that JA should be able to point this out to the jury.

liltexans

06-23-2011, 02:31 PM

NavySubMom

06-23-2011, 02:32 PM

My impression, is that the DT is the one who caused this, NOT JA. If it was a "mastermind plan" by the DT to look several steps ahead and try to cause a mistrial, who on the current team sitting in the court room is smart enough for that? CM is the only potential DT member in the court room who could figure this out, unless it was "texted" in....IMO, MOO, etc. But I do not think we are going to get any kind of a mistrial here because of this. IMO, MOO, not a legal opinion of any kind.

strach304

06-23-2011, 02:32 PM

I just saw the replay on IS and JA did not slam the cans down. His attitude came across to me as indignant this guy is refuting evidence he himself never tested. I saw nothing wrong with his behavior.

From what I've seen JB and CM have been much worse.

Jetaime

06-23-2011, 02:32 PM

Don't you guys realize that the DEFENSE are the only ones that can use theatrical dramatics? :eyeroll:
Indeed, the irony is rich.

RSDhoping for a cure

06-23-2011, 02:32 PM

newsjunkie

06-23-2011, 02:32 PM

Should the State just have no further questions, let him go, and then in rebuttal bring Dr. Vass back up and ask him questions relevant to this witness' testimony? Or is there something that NEEDS to be addressed now?

Mosby

06-23-2011, 02:32 PM

JA is willing to withdraw question and HHJP is not so quick to let him walk away from it.

I think HHJP is being so careful right now exactly because of this. So let's not worry if he rules in favor of the defense on this one. The Prosecution has tons of evidence - they can afford to let this lame witness say what he wants, even if it's anti-Vass. Vass can come in later and refute anything this guy says anyway. JA was right to say he'd let go of this line of questioning.

ITA. I think it's best not allow in at this point.

BigFatMommyDog

06-23-2011, 02:32 PM

I thought double jeopardy only applied when someone had actually been aquitted....that they could never ever be tried again for that same crime. No?
It can apply to mistrial under certain circumstances

raysgirl1126

06-23-2011, 02:33 PM

Its called Proffer. Basically the HHJP wants to know the answers to the questions before the witness testifies before the jury.

Thank you!

So then when the jury comes back in do they ask the same questions over again?

faefrost

06-23-2011, 02:33 PM

Mountain_Kat

06-23-2011, 02:33 PM

stilettos

06-23-2011, 02:34 PM

Let that Mack Truck roll..........:rocker:

PlainJaneDoe

06-23-2011, 02:34 PM

It's true. Unless their paper is specifically a methods paper (one that describes a new method) or they haven't done anything beyond well-referenced methods, there's almost always something summarized for brevity that could be further explained. And actually I've even had to contact authors of methods papers come to think of it. It's rare and perhaps impossible to get a complete 'users manual' in a publication.

Absolutely! There is always something to ask about or to clarify. Journal space is precious. The authors put in everything they can, but some things don't make the cut. And in my experience, everyone I've contacted in this situation, even our competitors, promptly responded and were helpful because they understand this.

Etiana

06-23-2011, 02:34 PM

I don't know how HHJP does it! The man is a solid rock of fortitude and patience! He's trying his best to clean up the DT mistakes so that the trial can continue fair and square.

shelbar53

06-23-2011, 02:34 PM

So did DS make the mistake and JA compound it? I don't understand what the specific problem is?

ami

06-23-2011, 02:34 PM

Maybe Ashton should have pulled out a wrinkled memo pad, stuck it on an easel and drawn some pictures of cans (and labeled them "CANNS") and then pointed to them to question the witness.

LadyL

06-23-2011, 02:34 PM

If I were on the witness stand, and JA slammed those cans in front of me like that, I'd be intimidated & possibly fearful.

Florida Native

06-23-2011, 02:34 PM

Judge O.H. Eaton Jr. says he believes a curative instruction to the jury should be enough to repair the problem. No mistrial.
by Jeff Cousins/WESH.com at 1:31 PM

Our legal expert Judge O.H. Eaton doubts a mistrial will happen.
by Jessica Steck/WESH.com at 1:30 PM

For once, I'm glad to hear from Judge E.

I've been thinking about how ICA wrote to her pal that JB said it would end in a mistrial. Did he not explain that she would have to stay in jail and it would be a do-over? :waitasec: I think she thought she could walk away if a mistrial is declared.

Pita

06-23-2011, 02:35 PM

Anyway you look at it, the jurors heard the final question.
No way to erase that now....yehaaaaaaa

Dragonlady

06-23-2011, 02:35 PM

The DT's game is to get a mistrial because they fracked up royally and need to start fresh, and HHJP is on to them and trying his hardest to prevent that.

Is it possible for HHJP to do something about this without calling for a mistrial?

Mosby

06-23-2011, 02:35 PM

Beyond Belief

06-23-2011, 02:35 PM

this is what "per bono" gets you......

Linda7NJ

06-23-2011, 02:35 PM

Maybe Ashton should have pulled out a wrinkled memo pad, stuck it on an easel and drawn some pictures of cans (and labeled them "CANNS") and then pointed to them to question the witness.
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: Too flipping funny

~n/t~

06-23-2011, 02:35 PM

The defense is trying to impeach Dr. Vass so how is it fair that the prosecution can't question the defense "expert" on whether or not he could've done the testing. I don't get it.

TotallyObsessed

06-23-2011, 02:35 PM

Burden of Proof shifting to Defense. In criminal law the defense does not have to do anything to include testing, witnesses anything and it can't be used against them for the burden lies solely on the Prosecution.

ETA: When JA asked the witness if he had seen any of the cans and he said no JA then asked if the DT had asked him to test it or if he had tested it - giving jury impression that the defense should have and yet law says they don't have to.

Okay now I'm confusing myself lol.

The DT (per Sims) asked "could you replicate this test?"....opening up the line of questions from JA about did you? Why not? It boils down to the same thing we had the other day about the dna evidence. The DT never sent it, they never asked that this test be replicated, because of what it MIGHT prove against their client. And they didn't have to do that. That would be putting the burden on them to show their client DID NOT DO IT. In a criminal trial, the burden lies with they Prosecution in showing she DID DO IT.

LoisDenominator

06-23-2011, 02:35 PM

What is this pit in my stomach?

pcrum12

06-23-2011, 02:35 PM

Simms went to far and now the Judge is trying to save the trial. She should not have gone down that road and once again they can violate rules of the procedure and then demand remedy.

So are you saying it's ok that JA does? JA knows very well that Defendant has no burden to test anything - that question was to inflame the fury with Inference that they had to or should have.

pinkfly

06-23-2011, 02:35 PM

JA is showing that he does have great faith in Dr Vass and his techniques and findings. JA gets credit for bringing DNA into FL courtrooms and he is a perfectionist about dotting his i’s and crossing his t’s. This gives me great faith in these findings.

LittleBitty35

06-23-2011, 02:35 PM

Simms went to far and now the Judge is trying to save the trial. She should not have gone down that road and once again they can violate rules of the procedure and then demand remedy.

I bet the jury hates the defense for this. They are DEMANDING a mistrial...by their own actions. It screams of this. :banghead:

Like I said before, when someone has the upper hand, break it.

Jada85

06-23-2011, 02:36 PM

Donjeta

06-23-2011, 02:36 PM

The talking heads on Wesh just said that the defense may have opened the door to switching the burden of proof from the state to the defense and it could be very close to a mistrial.

:gasp:

Please someone fill me in on this. I miss one half hour and it could be the most important half hour of the trial.

Witness was asked if he is able to replicate Dr. Vass's results, and JA thinks it opened the door for him to ask why he didn't try. DS objects because it shifts the burden of proof to the defense implying that they should have run the tests and she was just trying to point out that the tests were run according to no protocol the witness is aware of and the reports give insufficient information to replicate.

Judge saying that it's a fine line here and let's recess.

The parties quoted caselaw, Overton and Hayes I think.

kpalma715

06-23-2011, 02:36 PM

:great:

Linda7NJ

06-23-2011, 02:36 PM

this is what "per bono" gets you......

Jose is getting paid by Florida tax payers...make no mistake

liltexans

06-23-2011, 02:36 PM

Talking in the hallway: #JoseBaez , #cindyanthony and Cindy's attorney, Mark Lippman. Curious.
by stevehelling via twitter at 1:36 PM

beachgal58

06-23-2011, 02:36 PM

HHJP cannot let this result in mistrial. Doing so opens the door to allow any defense lawyer to use shoddy questioning as an strategy or mechanism to defend their client. It outright undermines the process and encourages bad behavior instead of good.

Shouldnt there be consequences for lawyers who constanly try to get a mistrial by messing up on purpose? Why are they allowed to do this?

tehcloser

06-23-2011, 02:36 PM

The DT has not asked for a mistrial over this.........

Nana46

06-23-2011, 02:36 PM

I wish they would take the inmate out everytime there is a recess...I am sooooooooooo over her.

newsjunkie

06-23-2011, 02:36 PM

Back at sidebar and JA got his spot by the bench back from DS.

JSR

06-23-2011, 02:36 PM

I will cry if a mistrial goes down. Especially if the SA's fault.

TotallyObsessed

06-23-2011, 02:37 PM

The DT (per Sims) asked "could you replicate this test?"....opening up the line of questions from JA about did you? Why not? It boils down to the same thing we had the other day about the dna evidence. The DT never sent it, they never asked that this test be replicated, because of what it MIGHT prove against their client. And they didn't have to do that. That would be putting the burden on them to show their client DID NOT DO IT. In a criminal trial, the burden lies with they Prosecution in showing she DID DO IT.

Here is a simple way to explain what just happened. In my simple words.

Oakley

06-23-2011, 02:37 PM

anthonycase WOFL
Just saw #caseyanthony's mom Cindy, her attorney Mark Lippman and Jose Baez having a pow wow in the hallway. #fox35

pinkfly

06-23-2011, 02:37 PM

I thought double jeopardy only applied when someone had actually been aquitted....that they could never ever be tried again for that same crime. No?

It can apply if prosecution is cause of mistrial and defense effectively argues that it amounts to double jeopardy to put accused through it again.

mydailyopinions

06-23-2011, 02:37 PM

Talking in the hallway: #JoseBaez , #cindyanthony and Cindy's attorney, Mark Lippman. Curious.
by stevehelling via twitter at 2:36 PM

PlainJaneDoe

06-23-2011, 02:37 PM

I understand that the "burden of proof" is the states responsibility but could someone explain to me how the DT can throw things out there without having to PROVE the theory their witness is testifying to.

I hope this question makes sense, it did in my head but not sure it came out the same way!

No, I agree with you. For me, that would be the "reasonable" part of "reasonable doubt." MOO - if I were a juror, I wouldn't be interested in hearing that some witnesses with impressive titles could imagine an alternate scenario (to that presented by the SAs). I would want to know that the alternative explanations were based on facts.

Mountain_Kat

06-23-2011, 02:37 PM

Witness was asked if he is able to replicate Dr. Vass's results, and JA thinks it opened the door for him to ask why he didn't try. DS objects because it shifts the burden of proof to the defense implying that they should have run the tests and she was just trying to point out that the tests were run according to no protocol the witness is aware of and the reports give insufficient information to replicate.

Judge saying that it's a fine line here and let's recess.

The parties quoted caselaw, Overton and Hayes I think.

Best summary yet, Donjeta. Thanks.

wenwe4

06-23-2011, 02:37 PM

I understand that the "burden of proof" is the states responsibility but could someone explain to me how the DT can throw things out there without having to PROVE the theory their witness is testifying to.

I hope this question makes sense, it did in my head but not sure it came out the same way!

Oh you mean like the baby drown, GA molested KC, LA molested KC, LA might be the baby Daddy, cannot replicate this test- yes we can, ZFG, looking for a live Caylee, ....

Wise Old Owl

06-23-2011, 02:37 PM

If I understand correctly (correct me if I'm wrong), it is because it is not the DT's burden to prove anything. It is the State's. So their witness didn't HAVE to test anything and can't be impeached or whatever due to not testing it.
Right! BUT - the witness is testifying about his OPINION of the results. He is basing his opinion upon his reading of the report and bench notes not being complete enough. That then offers an opinion of other expert witnesses (particularly the ones that conducted the test, took the bench notes and wrote the report).

Such a sticky mess here. True definition of the word "quagmire".

reasonable

06-23-2011, 02:37 PM

jp screwed up letting ds go on with this line of questioning ,after ja objected to it.
now jp has got to clean up the mess or it will be a solid basis for appeal.

I agree exactly. This is the judge's making by letting them stomp around this issue at all. I don't think being "never overturned" is such a great thing. Maybe he is too cautious to the detriment of one side or the other.

The rules are the rules.

IMO, this is far from mistrial worthy, but I kind of choke on CM's curative instruction.

Dr.Fessel

06-23-2011, 02:38 PM

I was on the road when the question was asked and the cans were put up on the stand but from listening now I get the impression the guy said he could not replicate the test. That is a very basic thing in science, others have to be able to do the test. I would think Ashton would have the right to call him on that since it is a simple test and laid out in steps. It is not like the guy was using vodoo or something to do the test with.

I don't think that is putting any burden on the DT to produce evidence it is just making this guy explain why he can not do the test.

Eidetic

06-23-2011, 02:38 PM

http://i51.tinypic.com/28tw8hz.jpg

anb

06-23-2011, 02:38 PM

Can someone please tell me EXACTLY why there could be a mistrial?? I am SOOOO confused!! I don't understand what DCS did and about the evidence? I am lost. :(

bunchy

06-23-2011, 02:38 PM

The DT has not asked for a mistrial over this.........

They will at the end of the day.

BigFatMommyDog

06-23-2011, 02:38 PM

The DT has not asked for a mistrial over this.........

Yet. Give CM til the end of the day

yeknomaras

06-23-2011, 02:38 PM

I was just thinking about Stan Strickland. no offense to him or his abilities, but I think that without HHJP's strictness and experience, there would have been a mistrial already.

MissJames

06-23-2011, 02:39 PM

So are you saying it's ok that JA does? JA knows very well that Defendant has no burden to test anything - that question was to inflame the fury with Inference that they had to or should have.

HH just told the defense that they can't have their witness discredit Dr. Vass unless he produced results that were different.It's the defense that is pushing the issue.

Amster

06-23-2011, 02:39 PM

This witness is not qualified to testify about Dr. Vass. So, why did HHJP allow it?

LittleBitty35

06-23-2011, 02:39 PM

Talking in the hallway: #JoseBaez , #cindyanthony and Cindy's attorney, Mark Lippman. Curious.
by stevehelling via twitter at 1:36 PM

Isn't that twitter-er the one who writes for People currently writing the article, "Could Casey walk?"

Just curious. And also, have to remind myself daily, that no matter how many countless injustices (injusticees...lol) surround us every single minute of the day that Caylee will have justice.

suzihawk

06-23-2011, 02:40 PM

Possible mistrial? Someone please explain.

Yes... please and thank you. I just came in and am sooo lost. All I heard is mistrial. <worried>

Steely Dan

06-23-2011, 02:40 PM

adb263

06-23-2011, 02:40 PM

I will cry if a mistrial goes down. Especially if the SA's fault.

But thats just it!! I think if a mistrial happens now it would be the DT's fault for opening the door!! if i understand correctly!!

tehcloser

06-23-2011, 02:40 PM

They will at the end of the day.

More than likely........but they haven't at this point. This is all the Judge. He knows exactly how close this is.

Kenziema

06-23-2011, 02:40 PM

Talking in the hallway: #JoseBaez , #cindyanthony and Cindy's attorney, Mark Lippman. Curious.

jon_burrows

06-23-2011, 02:40 PM

The DT has not asked for a mistrial over this.........

yet.

IMO

faefrost

06-23-2011, 02:40 PM

Shouldnt there be consequences for lawyers who constanly try to get a mistrial by messing up on purpose? Why are they allowed to do this?

I suspect that after today it may not just be JB who has to break out the checkbook once the trial is over. HHJP was specifically dressing down DS for ignoring his order concerning Dr. Logan. I think the patern of such behaviors has become so pervasive by the defense that he will drop the hammer on all of them.

ohiogirl

06-23-2011, 02:40 PM

I thought double jeopardy only applied when someone had actually been aquitted....that they could never ever be tried again for that same crime. No?

In case this hasn't been aswered, double jeopardy could apply if the SA causes the mistrial. JA got a little over zealous, imo. Let's see of His Honor can save it.

liltexans

06-23-2011, 02:40 PM

CSI Jen Welch is back in hallway. #CaseyAnthony -jfell
by cfnews13casey via twitter at 1:40 PM

pinkfly

06-23-2011, 02:40 PM

Jose is getting paid by Florida tax payers...make no mistake

remember when he told Judge Perry that he (JB) was getting slave wages.

azscr4mbl3r

06-23-2011, 02:40 PM

I think HHJP is just making double ..triple.. certain he is ruling correctly either way.. JA already said he would withdraw the question.. I think he is more defending Dr. V's honor than anything else.........

ALSO......He hates these cans...stay away from the cans!

Miss Anarchy

06-23-2011, 02:40 PM

It always amazes me how quickly the Judge can come up with other case references off the top of his head hehe

ITA! This is why he is the Chief Justice for the District.

ami

06-23-2011, 02:41 PM

I dont' care- rule against the state- just keep the trial moving without mistrial and let's all move on from this.

adb263

06-23-2011, 02:41 PM

according to tweets CSI Jenny welch in hallway again....bless her heart!!

Beyond Belief

06-23-2011, 02:41 PM

burden of proof on state
defendant has no obligations
no objections
anddddddddddddddddddd

grammieto5

06-23-2011, 02:41 PM

Per WFTV ... this issue is very close to a mistrial so this is why it's being handled so carefully.

Again because of the DT? Anyone else doubt what their plan is?

MaryAnn

06-23-2011, 02:41 PM

JP looks mad. Can't blame him

Serjen

06-23-2011, 02:41 PM

Bill S. says cans most likely won't be opened in case of a retrial...if they open them now, they will release evidence.

FaerieB

06-23-2011, 02:41 PM

CFNews13Casey Casey Anthony News13
News 13 will air press co Terence with Anthony family attorney Mark Lippman LIVE after court ends for the day. #CaseyAnthony -jfell

ConstableCruller

06-23-2011, 02:41 PM

All I can think is that days of scientific testimony will be wasted trying to convince the jury that several experienced people and two highly-trained dogs didn't really smell human decomposition in Casey's car. Dr. Vass is just icing on a cake with a saw blade in it.

fifteen89

06-23-2011, 02:41 PM

The sad thing is....after all this time, does the jury even remember what the line of questioning was about before they were removed from the court room?

Nana46

06-23-2011, 02:41 PM

The inmate is acting like she is going head to toe with the lawyer at the table...as if she had a college degree:banghead:

Kenziema

06-23-2011, 02:41 PM

This poor girl:
CFNews13Casey Casey Anthony News13
CSI Jen Welch is back in hallway. #CaseyAnthony -jfell

Donjeta

06-23-2011, 02:41 PM

It is well established that the burden of proof is on the State of Florida and the defendant has no burden to prove or disprove anything.

DesSands

06-23-2011, 02:41 PM

Bill S. saying walking a thin line with a mistrial with this. rut roh..............

Maybe that's what DT wants so they can save face and not hear that G word on their watch. :waitasec:

TotallyObsessed

06-23-2011, 02:41 PM

My my the paralegal is busy reading caselaw.

Etiana

06-23-2011, 02:41 PM

I feel like I'm about to be sick to my stomach over this!

21merc7

06-23-2011, 02:42 PM

HHJP writing with the red pen again

liltexans

06-23-2011, 02:42 PM

News 13 will air press co Terence with Anthony family attorney Mark Lippman LIVE after court ends for the day. #CaseyAnthony -jfell
by cfnews13casey via twitter at 1:41 PM

jon_burrows

06-23-2011, 02:42 PM

I think JBP is doing the right thing. The prosecution has so much evidence, this is small potatoes. I think they are saving their best evidence for the rebuttal anyway.

IMO

newsjunkie

06-23-2011, 02:42 PM

CSI Jen Welch is back in hallway. #CaseyAnthony -jfell
by cfnews13casey via twitter at 1:40 PM

poor thing. . .let her go home. . .

NavySubMom

06-23-2011, 02:42 PM

"CSI Jen Welch is back in hallway. #CaseyAnthony -jfell" (twitter)

On another note, at this critical juncture, I just love Jen Welch!

FaerieB

06-23-2011, 02:42 PM

JimLichtenstein Jim Lichtenstein
Witnesses waiting are CSI types, Nick Savage of FBI, and... Wait for it... Boomerang Jenny Welch!!! #caseyanthony #caseyanthonytrial

Clearly Confused

06-23-2011, 02:42 PM

The DT has not asked for a mistrial over this.........

They haven't asked...they are expecting it to be handed to them.

Never4GetCaylee

06-23-2011, 02:42 PM

Seriously. WHAT is ICA doing. :sick: I can't stand to watch this anymore

Linda7NJ

06-23-2011, 02:43 PM

remember when he told Judge Perry that he (JB) was getting slave wages.

I sure do...I found it insulting

JSR

06-23-2011, 02:43 PM

Talking in the hallway: #JoseBaez , #cindyanthony and Cindy's attorney, Mark Lippman. Curious.
by stevehelling via twitter at 1:36 PM

That's disappointing.

~n/t~

06-23-2011, 02:43 PM

CSI Jen Welch is back in hallway. #CaseyAnthony -jfell
by cfnews13casey via twitter at 1:40 PM

Good grief. How many times will she be called to the stand. This is ridiculous! :banghead:

Soulmagent

06-23-2011, 02:43 PM

Alright I decided I like when JB is up better then when DS is up but I think I would rather have CM of the 3. Since my choices are limited.

nursebeeme

06-23-2011, 02:43 PM

the wesh talking head blow-by-blow making me feel like I am watching a football game!

What'sThatClue

06-23-2011, 02:43 PM

I don't think I've ever heard HHJP sigh so much

liltexans

06-23-2011, 02:43 PM

FaerieB, are you tweeting with Jim L.?

LOL

tehcloser

06-23-2011, 02:44 PM

Maybe JB was talking to the A's so that they can get the word to ICA that they don't really think she's guilty.......lol.

DesSands

06-23-2011, 02:44 PM

Light bulb went off in my head as to why ICA is doing so much reading. She's trying to explain the Law to JB. :floorlaugh:

pcrum12

06-23-2011, 02:44 PM

The DT has not asked for a mistrial over this.........

Thanks wasn't enough!

Kenziema

06-23-2011, 02:44 PM

Lolol:

RichardHornsby Richard Hornsby
@ @stevehelling I'm sure it's nothing more than Cindy inviting Jose over for dinner soon.

liltexans

06-23-2011, 02:44 PM

Judge is reading a stipulation to jury. Saying state has burden to prove it's case. Defense doesn't have to prove anything. #CaseyAnthony
by cfnews13casey via twitter at 1:44 PM

summerthyme

06-23-2011, 02:44 PM

Whew!

Beyond Belief

06-23-2011, 02:44 PM

thank goodness, thank you JA for finishing this.........

newsjunkie

06-23-2011, 02:44 PM

Way to go JA. . short, sweet, and to the point.

pinkfly

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

Dr Logan is sooo happy to be out of that seat....

Disguiseduser0308

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

I'm sort of disenchanted with our legal process. While it is one of the best, the aching feeling of the DT attempting to purposely cause a mistrial leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I don't understand how the DT can throw in reasonable doubt when their own expert did no testing. I realize they don't have to.. but they should if they want reasonable doubt in the jurors minds.

mombomb

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

2:36 (attorneys at sidebar)

Jury has been gone since 1:50

HHJBP read proposed curative instruction - no objections by either party.

Jury returned at 2:42

It is a well settled principal of law that the burden of proof is upon the State of Florida to prove every element of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. The defendant has no obligation to prove or disprove anything

CROSS EXAMINATION OF DR. LOGAN BY JA - continued

His lab doesn't perform air sample analysis. He hasn't done air sample anlaysis since he was a grad student over 20 years ago.

Witness is excused at 2:44

kellypr

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

I had to step out...did JA ever mention his needing to resign from his lab?

Mamabear1963

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

My my the paralegal is busy reading caselaw.

everytime I see caselaw...i am reading coleslaw...and thinking stinking cabbage

jon_burrows

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

Seriously. WHAT is ICA doing. :sick: I can't stand to watch this anymore

She thinks she found the golden nugget that will set her free on a technicality. The problem is she has no idea what she's looking at or what it means.

IMO

momtective

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

Witness may be excused.

whew...I'm glad he's outta there!

Mountain_Kat

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

Good for you, JA. let it go and bring it up on rebuttal.

Also, good for you, DS. No one wants to have to do this trial over again.

It's a wash. Next.

sappysoul

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

I've never been so happy to see a witness leave.

wenwe4

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

HHBP read statement burden of proof on the SA and the DT has no obligation to prove anything.

JA - your lab does not perform air sample analysis - NO and you have not done air sample analysis since you were graduate student over 20 years ago...

that is correct.

DS - no more questions

witness excused (Barry Logan gets to leave the hot seat!)

Eidetic

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

Logan struggling to pack up and get off the stand. Cut your losses Logan, leave your things behind... just run fast and far! lol

Hopeful One

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

Wow, that whole mess was confusing to my legally-inept brain. Thank you to Totally Obsessed for spelling it out in a way I could understand!! :blowkiss:

Thank God we're back on track now. I would have been devastated if there was a mistrial. What an injustice for little Caylee that would be.

Tipstaff

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

Funny sorta looks like the State one that one even after the instruction. Witness left the bench!

kellypr

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

Should have been more clear there...did JA ever mention that Dr. Logan needed to resign...

Serjen

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

Dr. Logan is soo relieved. Did DS follow him out? I think she did.

Welch up AGAIN!

NavySubMom

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

SOOO, Wonder how LKB will spin this whole fiasco with this witness as being the fault of JA and the State on HLN tonight....
IMO, MOO, etc.

nitasch

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

Jenny Welch again!

PlainJaneDoe

06-23-2011, 02:45 PM

Welcome back, Jen Welch!

...wait, what?

Curious Me

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

Go on, get out, Witness.

liltexans

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

Jury back, judge reads curative instruction about burden of proof, Ashton asks witness 2 more questions and he's excused
by amandaoberwesh via twitter at 1:45 PM

Logan tells Ashton his does not do air analysis. He is excused. #CaseyAnthony
by oscaseyanthony via twitter at 1:45 PM

BigFatMommyDog

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

Jenny Jenny, who can I turn to?

RiverRat

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

No Further Questions...

IfIMay

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

so now it's Jenny, Jose?

Nana46

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

Still don't understand how this can even be considered for mistrial...I just don't get it.

2goldfish

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

woooow I bet miss welch is dang tired of this. she's been called what, 800 times?

MADJGNLAW

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

I feel like I'm about to be sick to my stomach over this!

Same here..in other words the victim has no rights..the defense gets to throw crap out there to save their client..but the victim since they are dead..has to pretty much have their killer on full video committing the crime, admitting to the crime..and most times they take it back. :maddening:Makes no sense to me..and who the heck admits to killing?:maddening:

QueenD

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

Jen Welch Again?

pjmale

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

JA finished fine but sounded pizzed.

Amster

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

So...CA is meeting with JB??

Poor witness Welch....

Linda7NJ

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

Yeah Jenny! You rock it girl!:rocker:

passionflower

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

Was ICA just cracking her knuckles a minute before jurors came back?
Is ICA allowed to watch the news about her parents do not think she is innocent (guilty)?

FaerieB

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

FaerieB, are you tweeting with Jim L.?

LOL

I tweet him and Steve Helling daily. LOL! (So busted.) :)

Tulessa

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

Jenny again? Bless her heart!!

Donjeta

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

Jenny Welsh again.

They should just give her a season pass.

LittleBitty35

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

That's disappointing.

I would imagine this has more to do with (a) Jose Baez covering his *** with any suit that might be filed against them by the A's and (b) I know JB has to be scared Sh**less that the State finally, after the deposition in march, filed the Dominick C depo with the court...JMO

dog.gone.cute

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

:waitasec: How many times has Jenny testified ? 5 or 6 ?

At least she is a good witness.

Clearly Confused

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

everytime I see caselaw...i am reading coleslaw...and thinking stinking cabbage
Would that be trash or garbage?

Hopeful One

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

Welch again?? Why do they keep asking the same people back??

ahoyhoy

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

Jen Welch always makes me smile.

Laynee

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

Poor Poptart Jennifer Welch

Mamabear1963

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

Witness may be excused.

whew...I'm glad he's outta there!

So is he...

and now Jenny Welch...poor woman....

octobermoon

06-23-2011, 02:46 PM

Jen W. the pop tart witness~~~LOL

mitzi

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

What is this...time #6 for Jenny Welch?

sappysoul

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

Jenny Welsh will surely have her own TV show when this is over. She almost has one now.:rocker:

Mountain_Kat

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

Poor, Jennifer. She's subjected to JB almost every day. :(

Aqua_Green_Bean

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

Honestly, if the members of the jury are anything like me - just an average person with a layman's understanding of the law - they will have no idea what just happened and wouldn't even know that a question could shift the burden of proof.

MaraSleuth

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

#
#CaseyAnthony Our friend CSI Jennifer Welch returns to the stand. She's also know as the "boomerang witness". She keeps coming back!
by amandaoberwesh via twitter at 2:46 PM

Mendara

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

Omg not Jennifer whelch again

~n/t~

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

Here we go another rerun.

liltexans

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

Last question Ashton asked is if his lab performs air samples-answer no. Ashton: you haven't done that in 20 yrs (grad school) BL:correct.
by cfnews13casey via twitter at 1:46 PM

JSR

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

CFNews13Casey Casey Anthony News13
News 13 will air press co Terence with Anthony family attorney Mark Lippman LIVE after court ends for the day. #CaseyAnthony -jfell

The way CA works I wonder now if the presser will only CA and Lippman and not GA. I'm disappointed that Lippman might have caused CA to turn again and lie and do all sorts of wrong to get her daughter off. I hope for GA's sake that CA stays the course, but she may not if she thinks the public might think even ICA's parents don't believe her.

fifteen89

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

no socks or shoes??? WTH is his point.

JustMeDeb

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

Oh this poor girl! How many times is JB going to call her??????

KenoshaKid

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

no socks or shoes recovered. :(

LittleBitty35

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

Jenny Welsh again.

They should just give her a season pass.

LOL. You weren't jesting about a seasonal pass to Universal. Because at this point, I think all of the current posters have earned one...:rocker:

Bobbarita

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

What the hell???

SATA

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

Jenny... she is clear, to the point and FAST!

mag84

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

I <3 Jenny Welch!! Best.Witness.Ever.

grammieto5

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

JA not speaking, time for the mute button :-)

Serjen

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

Seriously?? What is the defense doing??

BigFatMommyDog

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

Gawd that was dumb

raysgirl1126

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

YAY!! Jenny Welch again, i'm not sure why I love her so much, but she rocks!!

nitasch

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

JB asks Ms Welch
In the revovery over three hundred items were recovered correct?
Were there any socks or shoes found? Does this mean Caylee anthony did not have socks or shoes on?
Objection sustained, poor Jenny is excused

Beyond Belief

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

next :fence:

Mendara

06-23-2011, 02:47 PM

I can't believe this.

MaraSleuth

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

OMG!!!!!!! What a waste of jennifer Welch's time!!!

KenoshaKid

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

waste, huge waste.

Mountain_Kat

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

What the heck?! Jennifer in and out in a second. :eek:

bunchy

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

I just want to hear JP say "It's not my job" again.....and again.....and again.....

NavySubMom

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

O M G BROUGH JEN WELCH IN FOR THAT???? They need to get on with the drowning, the sex-abuse and roy Kronk , IMO< MOO

Leila

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

Wow..........that was quick!

FaerieB

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

Cindy!!!!!!!!!!

Quiche

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

Omg!!!

cloud9

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

poor thing. . .let her go home. . .

She is a breath of fresh air. :)

MissJames

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

If he asks her if a dog could have buried that hip bone,I'm eating a whole cheesecake.

GreenTeam

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

Why did they call in this witness just to ask if Caylee had socks or shoes?

Ssejors

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

Jenny Welch back.

She is pretty. Always smiling, except for the day of her original testimony where she had to look at pics and identify things. That was sad.

JB asking if there were socks or shoes recovered belonging to Caylee

JW no socks or shoes recovered at all

JA objecting.....

And Jenny is excused...!!

kellypr

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

CA!!! Here we go!!!!!

jamiect

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

Here we go!!!!

What'sThatClue

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

CA up now!

adb263

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

Holy shizballs!!!!!ca

Celt1997

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

No shoes or socks...the mystery deepens?!?! :waitasec:

kantoo

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

no socks or shoes recovered. :(

...most kids don't sleep in them, especially in the trunk of a car. jmo

~n/t~

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

Yikes!! Cindy

mombomb

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

2:45

DIRECT EXAMINATION OF CSI WELCH BY JB

CSI in charge of recovery site on Suburban. Over 300 items of evidence were collected.

No socks or shoes were recovered.

Would this be consistent with Caylee having had no shoes or socks on when she passed away.

OBJECTION - outside scope - SUSTAINED

Witness excused at 2:48

wenwe4

06-23-2011, 02:48 PM

JB - defense calls CSI - Jenny Welch (for her 4th or more appearance)

Jennifer Welch - CSI in charge of recovery site off of Surburban Drive....in recovery over 300 items collected in evidence....were there any socks or shoes recovered from scene belonging to Caylee...CSI that she didn't have shoes or socks on (object- sustain)
withdraw question - no further questions

witness excused