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borndem
06-23-2011, 08:53 AM
Closing arguments.

Good Morning and hang on! :seeya:

snowshuze
06-23-2011, 09:04 AM
I'm feelin' good about today. :)

PolkSaladAnnie
06-23-2011, 09:09 AM
I'm feelin' good about today. :)

Hello Snowshuze, born and everyone else... yes, it's going to be good day; good verdict, I think. (I trust). Been watching back here - great posts, thoughts by all. Thanks for the updates and insight.

Less0305 ... missed ya!

Onwards and upwards .... here's to justice for Michelle and baby Rylan.

BrownRice
06-23-2011, 09:14 AM
Anyone know what time? I don't see a link or anything on wral for today.

newMom
06-23-2011, 09:19 AM
....that Becky Holt will "bring it home" today and that we all see justice for Michelle and her son.


I'll be watching/reading as much as possible today. Wouldn't you know that TOMORROW is the day that I was scheduled to attend court. SIGH. Perhaps it'll be the delivery of a verdict? Honestly, I don't know if I could handle being there if it's a not-guilty. I was on my knees, right in front of the TV, waiting for the Scott Peterson verdict. I left work b/c I knew I'd lose it if justice wasn't served. So, I'm not sure about being there in person....

Anyone else planning on being in the courtroom tomorrow (if there is something to be there for)?

BrownRice
06-23-2011, 09:23 AM
I'll be watching/reading as much as possible today. Wouldn't you know that TOMORROW is the day that I was scheduled to attend court. SIGH. Perhaps it'll be the delivery of a verdict? ..........

Anyone else planning on being in the courtroom tomorrow (if there is something to be there for)?

I certainly hope there won't be a verdict before tomorrow. There's a lot of evidence and "coincidences" they need to sort through - even if they believe he's guilty. Regardless of the case, I always feel the defendant deserves an analytical jury to go through the motions - just to ensure they are arriving at the proper verdict.

BrownRice
06-23-2011, 09:24 AM
Link is up at wral, but nothing is showing yet.

http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/video/9693625/#/vid9693625

KellyCrash
06-23-2011, 09:30 AM
Court starts at 9:30am.

happy2binNC
06-23-2011, 09:34 AM
Chad must be feeling patriotic this morning. All together now, "I pledge allegiance..."

snowshuze
06-23-2011, 09:35 AM
I certainly hope there won't be a verdict before tomorrow. There's a lot of evidence and "coincidences" they need to sort through - even if they believe he's guilty. Regardless of the case, I always feel the defendant deserves an analytical jury to go through the motions - just to ensure they are arriving at the proper verdict.
Justin Barbers jury. Verdict in about an hour.

http://askville.amazon.com/jury-found-Justin-Barber-guilty-degree-murder-killing-wife-beach-year/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=56032637

borndem
06-23-2011, 09:41 AM
Hello Snowshuze, born and everyone else... yes, it's going to be good day; good verdict, I think. (I trust). Been watching back here - great posts, thoughts by all. Thanks for the updates and insight.

Less0305 ... missed ya!

Onwards and upwards .... here's to justice for Michelle and baby Rylan.

Hi, Polk - It's good to hear from you! Yes, here's to a Happy Dance! :seeya::great:

happy2binNC
06-23-2011, 09:44 AM
Well, well, well, the inmate sure is all smiles today.

Skittles
06-23-2011, 09:53 AM
Wow, courtroom is SRO!

Madeleine74
06-23-2011, 09:57 AM
ugh

I can only get a connection on WRAL and it is buffering.

I cannot get the WTVD ABC-11 feed to work at all.

Must be my Internet connectivity.

Prancy
06-23-2011, 09:57 AM
Good morning.

THe defendant got some help with the jury instruction on silence, but not exactly what he wanted. I'm confused on the instruction on acting in concert.

I have a different prediction on the jury deliberations. I think it may take about 6 and one-half hours.

NCB
06-23-2011, 10:00 AM
Just in case:

http://www.wral.com/specialreports/michelleyoung/video/9693625/#/vid9693625

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/livenow?id=8175997

http://www2.nbc17.com/video/live/

I think you need Windows Media Player for the NBC 17 one to work (I'm on a Mac, so I can't verify it--sorry).

Wyn
06-23-2011, 10:05 AM
No marks on his hands? GLOVES. Think the jury knows what gloves are and how they can protect hands? He has them in the photo from the video. Sometimes I feel like the defense thinks the jury isn't very smart.

Tossed those bloody clothes/weapon out the master bedroom window into the backyard. Used the water hose to rinse away any evidence.......

snowshuze
06-23-2011, 10:07 AM
Prosecution needs time to set up visual aids., right? :)

Luna24
06-23-2011, 10:08 AM
Hello everyone! Going to be following along here with you guys as best I can between meetings..I love getting the feel through your posts of what I can see when I get home and watch the testimony. :)

Justice is coming for the Michelle, R, C, Meredith and Linda. It's been long enough...

sending positive vibes to BH- bring it home. :)

happy2binNC
06-23-2011, 10:14 AM
This is all bolstering the "acted in concert with someone else" theory, IMO.

Boodles
06-23-2011, 10:16 AM
Hmm, good one for the defense, random fingerprint on the Tylenol cup - not Jason's or Michelle's.

cody100
06-23-2011, 10:18 AM
Good point Boodles. Probably helps the two person scenario.

snowshuze
06-23-2011, 10:23 AM
Identifying witness at the HOTEL, sir. That's the point?

BrownRice
06-23-2011, 10:27 AM
I think the defense is doing a pretty good job, imo.

Madeleine74
06-23-2011, 10:28 AM
FINALLY got a connection on the NBC-17 feed.

Thanks NCB!!

cody100
06-23-2011, 10:29 AM
I knew he would bring up Gracie's testimony.

Madeleine74
06-23-2011, 10:29 AM
JLY won't be able to claim insufficient counsel. He's had 2 very good lawyers defending him.

ncsu95
06-23-2011, 10:29 AM
Justin Barbers jury. Verdict in about an hour.

http://askville.amazon.com/jury-found-Justin-Barber-guilty-degree-murder-killing-wife-beach-year/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=56032637

That's not what that says. They took 30 hours to deliberate guilt and 1 hour to decide on the death penalty.

cody100
06-23-2011, 10:30 AM
I agree BR.

Wyn
06-23-2011, 10:34 AM
I knew he would bring up Gracie's testimony.

"Short, bald guy". I guess they think if they say it enough it'll stick?

So far I can thing of a reason for everything the defense has put forth as evidence that Jason isn't guilty. They can only hope that the jury is stupid at this point.

cody100
06-23-2011, 10:36 AM
That is their job, Wyn. After all, eyewitness is wrong a large per cent of the time so it is no shock they would hit that hard.

gracielee
06-23-2011, 10:37 AM
It never makes any sense to murder ones wife rather than simply get a DIVORCE. It also doesn't make any sense for anyone else, anyone without extreme *feelings*, to beat that poor girl to a pulp.

Madeleine74
06-23-2011, 10:37 AM
BTW, notice how a judge will bring in their own instructions into trial.

JG added 2nd degree murder because the case law said it was warranted, even though neither side asked for it.

JS added an 'accomplice' instruction, even though neither side asked for it.

All based on case law.

RaleighNC
06-23-2011, 10:37 AM
Prediction - Guilty

Verdict returned - Friday - 1 PM

newMom
06-23-2011, 10:40 AM
My prediction is a verdict tomorrow morning at 11 a.m. GUILTY.

Wyn
06-23-2011, 10:40 AM
That is their job, Wyn. After all, eyewitness is wrong a large per cent of the time so it is no shock they would hit that hard.

Yes, I know. It just amuses me how he kept repeating it. Gracie never said man was "bald" as far as I can remember. Especially since compared to Jason he, himself, is short and bald.

Madeleine74
06-23-2011, 10:40 AM
"Stringing together insignificant events?"

Bwahhaaahaaaa

Madeleine74
06-23-2011, 10:41 AM
My prediction is a verdict by 4:00pm tomorrow.

Guilty.

(and no one will assert the jury didn't deliberate 'long enough')

gorealtors
06-23-2011, 10:42 AM
Yes, I know. It just amuses me how he kept repeating it. Gracie never said man was "bald" as far as I can remember. Especially since compared to Jason he, himself, is short and bald.


Might sound petty, but I don't consider JY to have a "thick" head of hair at all. Looks rather fine and thin to me.

less0305
06-23-2011, 10:45 AM
Hello Snowshuze, born and everyone else... yes, it's going to be good day; good verdict, I think. (I trust). Been watching back here - great posts, thoughts by all. Thanks for the updates and insight.

Less0305 ... missed ya!

Onwards and upwards .... here's to justice for Michelle and baby Rylan.

Hey PSA!! Sorry I've been absent. My real life has gotten in the way. LOL!! But I'm listening to the closing arguments today. Please, God, let this jury see the truth - that JLY is a cold blooded murderer of a woman and baby - a murderer of the worst kind.

Wyn
06-23-2011, 10:45 AM
Might sound petty, but I don't consider JY to have a "thick" head of hair at all. Looks rather fine and thin to me.

Gracie did described his hair as "thin" and I agree with you, Jason's hair is thin. "Bald" is just what the defense wants the jury to visualize at this point.

NCB
06-23-2011, 10:46 AM
Interesting they repeatedly praise efforts of investigators in this case.

cody100
06-23-2011, 10:50 AM
Did I miss the vehicle at 7:30 in morning?

gracielee
06-23-2011, 10:51 AM
Was watching the ID Channel last night, a rerun of the Shannon Melende (sp?) disappearance & murder. The attorney for Butch Hinton, the suspect/eventually convicted, lamenting on 'this case should never have been brought to court'. "My poor client is innocent", etc. And recalling my earlier remarks concerning defense attorneys, my inability to understand how they can live with themselves, defending some of the scum that they sit beside. Old Butch, later on, after his conviction, confessed to the brutal rape & murder of poor Shannon.

happy2binNC
06-23-2011, 10:52 AM
Were there bloody paw prints at the scene? I don't remember hearing any testimony about that -- so what difference does it make that the dog was clean???:waitasec:

Wyn
06-23-2011, 11:03 AM
Were there bloody paw prints at the scene? I don't remember hearing any testimony about that -- so what difference does it make that the dog was clean???:waitasec:

Nothing as far as I can tell. Appears to be just another attempt to discredit Meredith. Subtle jab.

ncsu95
06-23-2011, 11:04 AM
The gas mileage might get him off. 7 gallons of gas wouldn't cover the trip home and back.

lib's mom
06-23-2011, 11:07 AM
Gracie did described his hair as "thin" and I agree with you, Jason's hair is thin. "Bald" is just what the defense wants the jury to visualize at this point.

Are you sure she said "thin?" I'm pretty sure she said "little bit of hair."

cody100
06-23-2011, 11:11 AM
This is a great defense team. Gas may get him off.

TheRed
06-23-2011, 11:12 AM
Jason testified that when he went out of the room, the door wouldn't shut all the way, but wouldn't he have his key card with him to make a quick run out to the car? Why would he need to prop the exit door open if he has his key card with him? I mean....he didn't know at the time that the hotel room door wasn't going to shut all the way... just sayin.....:waitasec:

icefun
06-23-2011, 11:12 AM
The gas mileage might get him off. 7 gallons of gas wouldn't cover the trip home and back.

All it would take is one gas can in the truck...thrown away after being used......or stopping at another station that never was discovered...lots of reasonable choices

WolfpackWoman
06-23-2011, 11:13 AM
All it would take is one gas can in the truck...thrown away after being used......or stopping at another station that never was discovered...lots of reasonable choices

But that hasn't been PROVEN. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that one of those things happened. Evidence of a missing gas can. Or a receipt, or smell of gas in his trunk. Anything, but there's none of that here.

cody100
06-23-2011, 11:15 AM
Without proof of his having a gas can or stopping at another station, the gas mileage does not fit. Burden of proof is on the prosecution. I did not see this one coming either. These attorneys are really good.

otto
06-23-2011, 11:16 AM
BTW, notice how a judge will bring in their own instructions into trial.

JG added 2nd degree murder because the case law said it was warranted, even though neither side asked for it.

JS added an 'accomplice' instruction, even though neither side asked for it.

All based on case law.

I missed the first 30 minutes ... was it decided that the "accomplice" instruction will be added? What about the right not to speak prior to arrest, was that instruction added as well?

otto
06-23-2011, 11:17 AM
Yes, I know. It just amuses me how he kept repeating it. Gracie never said man was "bald" as far as I can remember. Especially since compared to Jason he, himself, is short and bald.

She said a little taller than 5 feet and not much hair.

NCB
06-23-2011, 11:18 AM
I had to step away briefly. Didn't he say he was going to show how Gracie was mistaken? Did I miss that demo, or did I misunderstand?

traveler
06-23-2011, 11:18 AM
I wonder if he had a gas can in his garage that he could have used to get him by...or he topped off in Greensboro on way out and bought with cash.

otto
06-23-2011, 11:18 AM
Did I miss the vehicle at 7:30 in morning?

If so, I missed it too. I remember 3:30 - 5:30.

fran
06-23-2011, 11:18 AM
The Young's yard is large. I wonder if he used a riding mower? or at the least, he must have had a power mower. Too bad the pros didn't think to check the garage for and EMPTY gas can. If he kept a 1,2,or 5 gal can of gas and it was empty. That could explain some of the mileage difference.

That seems to be the only thing I can think of that MAY be a sticking point for the jury.

Has anyone here figured out the mileage?

JMHO
fran

cody100
06-23-2011, 11:19 AM
Yes, he will add the accomplice statement. So, that is probably why the defense went to great lengths to show the gas purchase irregularity. Pretty clever.

otto
06-23-2011, 11:19 AM
Were there bloody paw prints at the scene? I don't remember hearing any testimony about that -- so what difference does it make that the dog was clean???:waitasec:

It means one of two things ... either the dog was never allowed to go upstairs, or the dog went upstairs and someone cleaned his feet too.

borndem
06-23-2011, 11:20 AM
"Short, bald guy". I guess they think if they say it enough it'll stick?

So far I can thing of a reason for everything the defense has put forth as evidence that Jason isn't guilty. They can only hope that the jury is stupid at this point.

Agreed, Wyn -- The ADAs can rebut their arguments fairly easily and at the same time, drive home what the evidence does show against him.

But yes, the DT has done a very good direct argument. It's not as strong as they try to make it seem for obvious reasons.

traveler
06-23-2011, 11:20 AM
Surely the investigators ran the numbers for gas mileage!

gracielee
06-23-2011, 11:20 AM
But that hasn't been PROVEN. It's the prosecution's burden to prove that one of those things happened. Evidence of a missing gas can. Or a receipt, or smell of gas in his trunk. Anything, but there's none of that here.

If the prosecution had to prove each and every thing, separate and of itself, no one would ever be convicted of anything. Think of the little Austrailian girl, in the mountains. Sorry, can't recall her name right now. If the prosecution has to *prove* each and every element of that case, no one will ever be held accountable for her death. IIRC, there is no 'cause of death' in that case. For that matter, there is no 'cause of death' in the Caylee Anthony case.

Wyn
06-23-2011, 11:20 AM
Are you sure she said "thin?" I'm pretty sure she said "little bit of hair."

Someone said "thin". Not sure who without going back and listening to the testimony.

happy2binNC
06-23-2011, 11:21 AM
The Young's yard is large. I wonder if he used a riding mower? or at the least, he must have had a power mower. Too bad the pros didn't think to check the garage for and EMPTY gas can. If he kept a 1,2,or 5 gal can of gas and it was empty. That could explain some of the mileage difference.

That seems to be the only thing I can think of that MAY be a sticking point for the jury.

Has anyone here figured out the mileage?

JMHO
fran

I thought I heard him say something about never finding evidence of a missing gas can, but my phone was ringing so I could be wrong about that.

They were GOOD. I'm really nervous now that this jury will find him NG.

snowshuze
06-23-2011, 11:21 AM
If I counted right ....attorney said 3 times Jason got lost.He's figuring that into the mileage. Throws off his math, IMO.

otto
06-23-2011, 11:21 AM
The gas mileage might get him off. 7 gallons of gas wouldn't cover the trip home and back.

The gas mileage and the unlocked door are both interesting points. He wouldn't have stopped for gas unless he had to, and $15 wouldn't have gotten him to Duffield. Also, slipping the bill under the door and hanging a newspaper on the handle should have caused an unsecure door to pop open a bit.

Boodles
06-23-2011, 11:22 AM
I think the statements about the hotel clerk placing receipts and newspapers under/on the door is compelling. If the door was not latched, and he hung a USA Today on the handle, it seems it would have jarred the door. That was a good one on behalf of the defense IMO.

WolfpackWoman
06-23-2011, 11:22 AM
If the prosecution had to prove each and every thing, separate and of itself, no one would ever be convicted of anything. Think of the little Austrailian girl, in the mountains. Sorry, can't recall her name right now. If the prosecution has to *prove* each and every element of that case, no one will ever be held accountable for her death. IIRC, there is no 'cause of death' in that case. For that matter, there is no 'cause of death' in the Caylee Anthony case.

I'm sorry, that's just wrong. The prosecution has the burden of proof for each and every element of a crime. Period. They cannot say "it's possible" without having something to back that up with. I'm not saying they need video of him filling his truck with a gerrycan, I'm saying they need some amount of evidence to fill that gap.

WolfpackWoman
06-23-2011, 11:24 AM
The gas mileage and the unlocked door are both interesting points. He wouldn't have stopped for gas unless he had to, and $15 wouldn't have gotten him to Duffield. Also, slipping the bill under the door and hanging a newspaper on the handle should have caused an unsecure door to pop open a bit.

This last bit is an excellent point. I missed that completely.

borndem
06-23-2011, 11:24 AM
Might sound petty, but I don't consider JY to have a "thick" head of hair at all. Looks rather fine and thin to me.

ITA - It is thin -- I've agreed with Gracie since she said it. He does not have a bushy head of hair -- even in the few times we've seen it clean.

RaleighNC
06-23-2011, 11:26 AM
The gas mileage and the unlocked door are both interesting points. He wouldn't have stopped for gas unless he had to, and $15 wouldn't have gotten him to Duffield. Also, slipping the bill under the door and hanging a newspaper on the handle should have caused an unsecure door to pop open a bit.

The bill is usually a single sheet of paper - not enough to move a hotel door at all

Ever Hilton property I have ever stayed at placed the newspaper on the floor directly outside the door - they do not hang it - or else it would obscure the "do not disturb" hanger, and it would take too long - i.e. to bag it and then place on the handle.

ncsu95
06-23-2011, 11:27 AM
The gas mileage and the unlocked door are both interesting points. He wouldn't have stopped for gas unless he had to, and $15 wouldn't have gotten him to Duffield. Also, slipping the bill under the door and hanging a newspaper on the handle should have caused an unsecure door to pop open a bit.

I disagree with that. You would have to push on the door for it to pop open.

otto
06-23-2011, 11:27 AM
This last bit is an excellent point. I missed that completely.

He placed the comment in the context of staff at the hotel already being concerned about security with the propped door and camera tilt. In placing a newspaper on the doorhandle, the door should have opened a bit and that should have added to the concern about the hotel security, but there's no mention of the door being unsecured.

cody100
06-23-2011, 11:28 AM
The prosecution has more significant problems now. They have never shown he bought gas anywhere else, and they never found gas can or evidence of one in the vehicle. I have some concern now.

fran
06-23-2011, 11:28 AM
IMHO, once the pros goes over the circumstances that point towards guilt. I believe there's MORE than enough, to prove it was JY who committed this crime. One can explain one or two or even three things that may be not what they appear. But when you add them all up in a row, the voluminous set of circumstances don't point towards coincidence, but a blueprint of murder.

There is NO coincidence when it comes to murder.

JMHO
fran

gracielee
06-23-2011, 11:29 AM
The Young's yard is large. I wonder if he used a riding mower? or at the least, he must have had a power mower. Too bad the pros didn't think to check the garage for and EMPTY gas can. If he kept a 1,2,or 5 gal can of gas and it was empty. That could explain some of the mileage difference.

That seems to be the only thing I can think of that MAY be a sticking point for the jury.

Has anyone here figured out the mileage?

JMHO
fran

We have about an acre of land, and we also have a generator. We have four, five gallon cans for gas, and one or two smaller cans. IIRC, one of the gas powered thingies uses a mixture of gas & oil, or some such thing, hence the smaller cans of gas/mixture fuel. But we do have at least four of the big huge cans. Often times a number of those are empty, unless hubby has just taken them all to be filled up. I was with him the last time we filled them, a couple weeks ago. IIRC, we took three of the five gallon cans to fill that time. And since we are a distance from shopping, we tend to combine trips, so that trip we were stopping at Lowes & Home Depot prior to filling the gas cans. Even in this extreme heat we've been having, once we opened the car windows to drive home, any smell of the gas cans in the car, dissipated. We had the RAV 4, so no trunk, the cans were just in the back of the RAV.

otto
06-23-2011, 11:29 AM
The bill is usually a single sheet of paper - not enough to move a hotel door at all

Ever Hilton property I have ever stayed at placed the newspaper on the floor directly outside the door - they do not hang it - or else it would obscure the "do not disturb" hanger, and it would take too long - i.e. to bag it and then place on the handle.

I'm wondering that too. Newspaper are usually placed on the floor, not the door handle. However, slipping a notice under the door may cause an unsecure door to open a bit - would depend on whether someone's hand bumped the door in the process.

fran
06-23-2011, 11:30 AM
The prosecution has more significant problems now. They have never shown he bought gas anywhere else, and they never found gas can or evidence of one in the vehicle. I have some concern now.

They haven't found evidence of a gas can in the vehicle, but what about in the Young's garage? IF he used a power mower, there would be a gas can there. Too bad that's never been brought up.

fran

cody100
06-23-2011, 11:30 AM
I thought this was a Hampton Inn. The gas purchase and mileage is compelling evidence though, folks.

borndem
06-23-2011, 11:31 AM
Were there bloody paw prints at the scene? I don't remember hearing any testimony about that -- so what difference does it make that the dog was clean???:waitasec:

If the dog was not outside, JY put him there. Mr. G. did not bark when someone arrived and left at 3:00--4:30am or so b/c it was JY. MY told 911 that he was "going crazy" when she got there, probably because he was outside and didn't like it. MOO

cody100
06-23-2011, 11:32 AM
Even if you found an empty gas can in the garage, that would be easy to dismiss as having been empty for mowing the lawn.

otto
06-23-2011, 11:32 AM
They haven't found evidence of a gas can in the vehicle, but what about in the Young's garage? IF he used a power mower, there would be a gas can there. Too bad that's never been brought up.

fran

A gerry can would have had to be found in his vehicle, or there had to be evidence that one was missing from the home. Neither is true in terms of what we've heard in evidence.

fran
06-23-2011, 11:34 AM
If his hotel room door wouldn't latch when he left the room, how did he sleep all night without a locked door?

IMHO, ANYONE in the circumstances he stated, the door wouldn't lock, would have called the desk immediately and told them 'my door won't lock.'

I know I would NEVER stay at a hotel if my door wasn't locked.

JMHO
fran

WolfpackWoman
06-23-2011, 11:34 AM
If his hotel room door wouldn't latch when he left the room, how did he sleep all night without a locked door?

IMHO, ANYONE in the circumstances he stated, the door wouldn't lock, would have called the desk immediately and told them 'my door won't lock.'

I know I would NEVER stay at a hotel if my door wasn't locked.

JMHO
fran

Hotel doors usually have an additional deadbolt.

borndem
06-23-2011, 11:35 AM
The gas mileage might get him off. 7 gallons of gas wouldn't cover the trip home and back.

But another full tank would. He just wouldn't stop at 4 Brothers again... Of course he had to get more gas.... we've known that all along. Easy one to explain.

cody100
06-23-2011, 11:38 AM
But another full tank would. He just wouldn't stop at 4 Brothers again... Of course he had to get more gas.... we've known that all along. Easy one to explain.

Where is the proof though?

dgfred
06-23-2011, 11:38 AM
I'm wondering that too. Newspaper are usually placed on the floor, not the door handle. However, slipping a notice under the door may cause an unsecure door to open a bit - would depend on whether someone's hand bumped the door in the process.

One thing to add otto... hotel doors are kind of heavy.

fran
06-23-2011, 11:38 AM
If the dog was not outside, JY put him there. Mr. G. did not bark when someone arrived and left at 3:00--4:30am or so b/c it was JY. MY told 911 that he was "going crazy" when she got there, probably because he was outside and didn't like it. MOO

Or the dog may have been locked in a bathroom downstairs and Meredith just doesn't recall letting him out. You'd be surprised those little details you forget when you're suddenly thrown into the type of situation Meredith was that day. She found the unexpected and it went downhill from there. She doesn't even remember where she left the keys, for sure.

IMHO, IF the dog had been running around the house, I think everyone would agree he would have been going to Michelle and there would have been bloody pawprints all over the place. PLUS, the dog barking would have woken a drugged child. C didn't move until Meredith was there.

JMHO
fran

icefun
06-23-2011, 11:42 AM
I think he just put gas in his car from gas cans in his garage (lawnmower cans, etc.) after he was done slaughtering Michelle and leaving his toddler daughter alone with her dead body.

traveler
06-23-2011, 11:43 AM
But another full tank would. He just wouldn't stop at 4 Brothers again... Of course he had to get more gas.... we've known that all along. Easy one to explain.


True....he just needed to get to Hillsville where his alibi is....he could have got just enough to make it to Duffield from anywhere in between Hillsville and Cliffwood. He got more gas somewhere the next morning.

Skittles
06-23-2011, 11:43 AM
What about Michelle's car? There's a great big supply of gasoline.

cody100
06-23-2011, 11:47 AM
All of these possibilities are true, but you now ask the jury to overlook the lack of evidence. Juries do like concrete evidence. The jury was taking notes on this.

ncsu95
06-23-2011, 11:49 AM
This guy is doing a great job.

JiminWilton
06-23-2011, 11:55 AM
State says no evidence of robbery... what sophistry. Robbery requires one to intimidate and be present before the victim. The missing rings and jewelry box drawers are evidence of burglary.
Labradors do not attack, but they do slobber and love all over you.

ncsu95
06-23-2011, 12:00 PM
State says no evidence of robbery... what sophistry. Robbery requires one to intimidate and be present before the victim. The missing rings and jewelry box drawers are evidence of burglary.
Labradors do not attack, but they do slobber and love all over you.

They might not attack, but they bark like crazy.

jilly
06-23-2011, 12:00 PM
This guy is doing a great job.

I knooooow!! Where's he been all this time?

WolfpackWoman
06-23-2011, 12:01 PM
They might not attack, but they bark like crazy.

My lab would bark like crazy from behind the door. Door opens, and she'd pee the floor from excitement. Didn't matter who it was. Then lick.

JiminWilton
06-23-2011, 12:02 PM
This guy is doing a great job.

We seem to differ... what has he said that got you off the fence?

Think we'll hear about the size 10 bloody footprints? Will he explain the gasoline consumption argument?

JiminWilton
06-23-2011, 12:05 PM
What exactly is the evidence that shows that JY put that rock in the door?

ncsu95
06-23-2011, 12:06 PM
We seem to differ... what has he said that got you off the fence?

Think we'll hear about the size 10 bloody footprints? Will he explain the gasoline consumption argument?

A couple of things that I hadn't thought of before:

1. The killer going into Jason's closet. No purpose in doing that. Also, the closet wasn't rummaged through.
2. The dog. If this was a break in, that dog would have gone nuts and it would have alerted Michelle. The dog wouldn't have done that with Jason.

gracielee
06-23-2011, 12:07 PM
State says no evidence of robbery... what sophistry. Robbery requires one to intimidate and be present before the victim. The missing rings and jewelry box drawers are evidence of burglary.
Labradors do not attack, but they do slobber and love all over you.

My deceased black lab mix would *protect* me from a stranger. One of our daughters has a beautiful yellow lab, pure bred. He is completely and totally gentle with every baby, child, and family member, but he has bitten at least three males who were unknown to him. Males, unknown to him but on their property. He's approx. 100 pounds, and will slobber all over us, but if you are a male, unknown to him, he will bite you if you come on their property. That's a given.

happy2binNC
06-23-2011, 12:07 PM
"Mr. Fantastic!":floorlaugh:

WolfpackWoman
06-23-2011, 12:09 PM
I think the dog argument is an interesting one, and what testimony have we had on that? I mean, I have had a dog that would go CRAZY if one of us came home. He had to let the other know, loud, barking, jumping, howling. But would run and hide if it was someone he didn't know. I've also got a dog that's just the opposite, loud and obnoxious to strangers, and barely lifted his head if he knew it was one of us. Do we know how Mr. G acted?

gorealtors
06-23-2011, 12:09 PM
What exactly is the evidence that shows that JY put that rock in the door?


He couldn't be excluded when they did the DNA analysis.

WolfpackWoman
06-23-2011, 12:10 PM
He couldn't be excluded when they did the DNA analysis.

I don't think that's significant. How many people couldn't be excluded? Isn't there something like a huge number of the population that can't be excluded from each DNA profile?

RaleighNative
06-23-2011, 12:12 PM
I don't think that's significant. How many people couldn't be excluded? Isn't there something like a huge number of the population that can't be excluded from each DNA profile?

I thought I remember the profile matched 1 person for every 79.

cody100
06-23-2011, 12:12 PM
Not excluding does not mean his DNA is there, just means they couldn't exclude him. Kinda like negating each other. But it does allow for use in arguments.

otto
06-23-2011, 12:13 PM
So the newspaper bag was put on the door handle.

JiminWilton
06-23-2011, 12:13 PM
He couldn't be excluded when they did the DNA analysis.

Finding my DNA on any object does not prove anything except that I touched it. It does not prove that I used it to prop open a door or threw it at a dog (barking or otherwise) or anything else. It proves I touched it. That's all.

Further, for LE to have found the exact rock, e pluribus unum, that JY allegedly used to prop open the door and which was either kicked or thrown outside by the night clerk is beyond belief. Might be, but wasn't LabCorp the badguy in the Duke Lacrosse case?

otto
06-23-2011, 12:14 PM
One thing to add otto... hotel doors are kind of heavy.

True - depending on the hotel ... hadn't thought of that.

Wyn
06-23-2011, 12:16 PM
Cigar lie just went down in flames.

JiminWilton
06-23-2011, 12:18 PM
Didn't this ADA just preach that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence? Well, does that apply to cigar smoking?

Is this "having it both ways"? Methinks yes.

cody100
06-23-2011, 12:18 PM
I know cigar smokers who never use anything to cut the end of the cigar. Nasty habit to me.

otto
06-23-2011, 12:18 PM
I think the dog argument is an interesting one, and what testimony have we had on that? I mean, I have had a dog that would go CRAZY if one of us came home. He had to let the other know, loud, barking, jumping, howling. But would run and hide if it was someone he didn't know. I've also got a dog that's just the opposite, loud and obnoxious to strangers, and barely lifted his head if he knew it was one of us. Do we know how Mr. G acted?

The dog was Jason's before the marriage, and was most likely introduced to a lot of people through his and Michelle's social circles. I doubt a dog that had so many people around would be a serious guard dog.

WolfpackWoman
06-23-2011, 12:18 PM
Cigar lie just went down in flames.

I can't watch this morning. What did he say?

Boodles
06-23-2011, 12:19 PM
Yeah, you really don't stand outside in the wind and smoke cigars. Cigar smoking is a hunkered down activity - and it takes a l-o-n-g time to smoke one. It rings totally false.

otto
06-23-2011, 12:19 PM
Not excluding does not mean his DNA is there, just means they couldn't exclude him. Kinda like negating each other. But it does allow for use in arguments.

Wasn't it something like 2 markers out of 16 were similar?

otto
06-23-2011, 12:20 PM
Finding my DNA on any object does not prove anything except that I touched it. It does not prove that I used it to prop open a door or threw it at a dog (barking or otherwise) or anything else. It proves I touched it. That's all.

Further, for LE to have found the exact rock, e pluribus unum, that JY allegedly used to prop open the door and which was either kicked or thrown outside by the night clerk is beyond belief. Might be, but wasn't LabCorp the badguy in the Duke Lacrosse case?

There must have been thousands of rocks so finding a rock that can't exclude someone doesn't say much of anything - it's suggestive argument, not conclusive.

Wyn
06-23-2011, 12:21 PM
I guess poor Jason chewed the end of the cigar off since he didn't realize he needed to cut the end. Poor guy, been smoking cigars since he worked at, was it Black & Decker, yet was unprepared to smoke the one he supposedly had with him at the HI. :waitasec: Methinks Jason's lie was just exposed.

cody100
06-23-2011, 12:21 PM
I think so, Otto. It was not much.

otto
06-23-2011, 12:21 PM
Cigar lie just went down in flames.

I know people that occassionally smoke cigars and they often buy one or two singles. He said that he used the entire match package to light the cigar, which makes sense since they take some effort to light.

otto
06-23-2011, 12:22 PM
I can't watch this morning. What did he say?

He said there was no lighter, box of cigars or matches in his luggage.

cody100
06-23-2011, 12:24 PM
He probably did chew it off, Wyn. I have seen guys do that so it is not that unusual. Heck, I just realized you were supposed to clip it off. Then I do not smoke cigars or cigarettes. LOL

Wyn
06-23-2011, 12:24 PM
I can't watch this morning. What did he say?

No evidence of a cigar. Possible maids/cleaning crew could have disposed of one but no smell to his clothes (and they would have smelled), no clippers to clip the end of the cigar, no lighter or matches found in his suitcase or vehicle. Basically, for someone who brought a cigar along to purposefully smoke it on the trip, he had nothing a regular person would have in order to do so.

less0305
06-23-2011, 12:24 PM
I think he's doing a great job. I hope he keeps it up.

dgfred
06-23-2011, 12:27 PM
No evidence of a cigar. Possible maids/cleaning crew could have disposed of one but no smell to his clothes (and they would have smelled), no clippers to clip the end of the cigar, no lighter or matches found in his suitcase or vehicle. Basically, for someone who brought a cigar along to purposefully smoke it on the trip, he had nothing a regular person would have in order to do so.

Ahhhhh, that's why the statement about using up ALL the matches :innocent: .

ncsu95
06-23-2011, 12:31 PM
What a great point about why he chose this HI instead of the one closer to his destination. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to stop where he did.

Wyn
06-23-2011, 12:31 PM
Ahhhhh, that's why the statement about using up ALL the matches :innocent: .

Hey I believe him! If I totally suspend all common sense...........

RaleighNative
06-23-2011, 12:31 PM
I think he's doing a great job. I hope he keeps it up.

Agree. He is wrapping up the entire case and evidence in a concise way...and addressing most any issue which may raise doubt in a juror's mind. I also love his use of visuals....visuals are always very helpful to me.

fran
06-23-2011, 12:37 PM
Aha! He just covered the woman/post office worker's statement. She said if LE wanted to be sure it was the day in question, check with the newspaper. It was a different delivery person the day she said she spotted the people coming out of that driveway.

The pros did check with the delivery person. He was the very last witness. He stated he WAS working that day and in his usual vehicle, the plain, white, minivan.

Pros said 'she was thinking about another day.'

JMHO
fran

JiminWilton
06-23-2011, 12:38 PM
There are two dead horses lying at the feet of the State. One is Jason's alleycat morality and the other is his refusal to speak with folks who wanted to blame him for the murder.

Enough is enough.

fran
06-23-2011, 12:39 PM
5 minute break

otto
06-23-2011, 12:39 PM
Half listening again ... but did the prosecution address the gas question?

cody100
06-23-2011, 12:40 PM
Nope. I did not hear any address of the gas question

fran
06-23-2011, 12:41 PM
I like the end of this guy's talk. The def said the pros doesn't represent the people, but the government.

This pros said, they represented the victims, Michelle, Rylan, C, etc.

fran

Wyn
06-23-2011, 12:42 PM
Really wish they'd show the jury the "You came here for THAT!" video clip. Busy playing basketball with his buds, murder of his wife completely irrelevant to him anymore. Thought he was home free I suppose.

NCB
06-23-2011, 12:42 PM
Half listening again ... but did the prosecution address the gas question?

BH is going to cover the trip, so I would imagine she will address it then (hopefully).

jilly
06-23-2011, 12:43 PM
He said there was no lighter, box of cigars or matches in his luggage.

No cigar smoke in the suitcase either.

on another note - I just realized they didn't even find his gloves in the suitcase.

cody100
06-23-2011, 12:44 PM
I hope so. That should be addressed if possible.

jilly
06-23-2011, 12:45 PM
I like the end of this guy's talk. The def said the pros doesn't represent the people, but the government.

This pros said, they represented the victims, Michelle, Rylan, C, etc.

fran

Yes I liked the way he brought the victims back in his last statement asking for justice for them.

Madeleine74
06-23-2011, 12:46 PM
David S. ROCKED (no pun intended) his closing!

^five to DS!! That was poetic and awesome. :woohoo:

borndem
06-23-2011, 12:50 PM
It means one of two things ... either the dog was never allowed to go upstairs, or the dog went upstairs and someone cleaned his feet too.

The dog slept on a dogbed on the floor beside JY -- I think the dog was in the pen while this was going on - JY put him there, IMO. MY told the 911 op that the dog was "going crazy" when she got there -- outside, IIRC.

fran
06-23-2011, 12:50 PM
Pros has 54 minutes left.

Zamboni
06-23-2011, 12:51 PM
I agree that DS's close was excellent. I hadn't understood all the focus of the testimony about JY's DNA/hand print on the molding. I remember thinking at the time "Isn't his DNA all over the house? Big deal!" Then, today during close I really got a good look at the blood on that door/carpet and had DS doing the mime of bending over there, putting out his hand to steady himself, beating poor MY.

fran
06-23-2011, 12:51 PM
1693 days for def to come up with the story he told yesterday.

NCB
06-23-2011, 12:54 PM
1693 days for def to come up with the story he told yesterday.

Brilliant.

ncsu95
06-23-2011, 12:54 PM
She is stammering quite a bit right now. DS seemed much more comfortable.

Boodles
06-23-2011, 12:58 PM
The dog slept on a dogbed on the floor beside JY -- I think the dog was in the pen while this was going on - JY put him there, IMO. MY told the 911 op that the dog was "going crazy" when she got there -- outside, IIRC.

Do you mean Meredith Fisher?

gracielee
06-23-2011, 01:00 PM
David S. ROCKED (no pun intended) his closing!

^five to DS!! That was poetic and awesome. :woohoo:

Too bad he didn't do the cross. :( I'm not at all impressed with BH. Unless she comes up with something really great in her portion of the closing, they should have ended with David S., IMO

ncsu95
06-23-2011, 01:02 PM
Too bad he didn't do the cross. :( I'm not at all impressed with BH. Unless she comes up with something really great in her portion of the closing, they should have ended with David S., IMO

Well she sounds like a college freshman taking a speech class and doing her first public speech in front of a group. Still with the umms and starting/stopping while trying to read. This is painful to watch. It's like she is unsure of what she is saying. I'm extremely disappointed with what I'm seeing right now.

traveler
06-23-2011, 01:02 PM
Too bad he didn't do the cross. :( I'm not at all impressed with BH. Unless she comes up with something really great in her portion of the closing, they should have ended with David S., IMO


I agree...she's reading too much from notes.

cody100
06-23-2011, 01:04 PM
I hate to talk badly about BH, but her close is not very good. I do not understand. She started out so confidently.

traveler
06-23-2011, 01:08 PM
She's wasting time on the timeline that is already well known....what about debunking the defense? Explaining the gas mileage?

jilly
06-23-2011, 01:10 PM
She is stammering quite a bit right now. DS seemed much more comfortable.

There was something blocking her view from the jurors and it appears she was asked to move which threw her off a bit.

cody100
06-23-2011, 01:10 PM
We have already heard all of this. Why is she just going over this again?

Zamboni
06-23-2011, 01:11 PM
I think BH's confidence got a bit rattled yesterday, but she seems to be getting back into her groove as she goes today. He is soooo guilty, with plenty of evidence to that effect, that I don't think her level of polish will matter here.

happy2binNC
06-23-2011, 01:13 PM
Nice pause to let them stare at that shirt he was wearing at the Cracker Barrel.

Never mind - I thought that was THE shirt.

Zamboni
06-23-2011, 01:13 PM
All this talk about Cracker Barrel is making me hungry! Late court lunches are torture!

JiminWilton
06-23-2011, 01:14 PM
And...uhmmmm.... with regard to...I was hoping this would be a change from ten thousand uhmmmms, 5673 sentences prefaced with 'And', and 1124 instances of "you indicated."

I can't decide whether this is better or worse, but it's certainly well-plowed ground littered with dead horses.

RaleighNC
06-23-2011, 01:16 PM
The dog was Jason's before the marriage, and was most likely introduced to a lot of people through his and Michelle's social circles. I doubt a dog that had so many people around would be a serious guard dog.

Dogs are amazing creatures. They have excellent intuition. They would have KNOWN if someone else was in that house for bad purposes. That dog would have been going nuts is someone he did not know attacked Michelle. He would have picked up on her terror and gone after the attacker.

Dogs know. The most mild mannered animal will go crazy when something is that wrong. He also would have been VERY protective of that child.

good dogs take cues from their masters - if you are scared - they know it and they react.

As a note - police will tell you a dog is the most effective deterrent - perps don't like barking dogs - they draw attention to the scene. nevermind the possibility of being bitten.

If someone had put him in a closet - he would have tried frantically to get out - unless maybe it was Jason.......

jilly
06-23-2011, 01:17 PM
I'm following NBC - the camera flashed to jason. He was rocking like crazy in his chair.

ncsu95
06-23-2011, 01:18 PM
That's at least twice now where she said "what you'll learn" and had to change it to "what you have learned". This is worse than Cummings.

happy2binNC
06-23-2011, 01:19 PM
Get to the gas mileage or you are going to lose this case, BH.

cody100
06-23-2011, 01:21 PM
Actually surprisingly, Cummings did a fairly good closing argument compared to this.

Zamboni
06-23-2011, 01:21 PM
Okay, gas is addressed.

WolfpackWoman
06-23-2011, 01:22 PM
Okay, that's a huge misstatement of fact. I don't think you can say that "was a rock with the defendant's DNA."

She's not doing well. She seems disjointed. Her opening was much more persuasive.

fran
06-23-2011, 01:22 PM
Aha! The def didn't want you to know about the cash gas purchase. We may not know of another purchase made at the time the def SAID he was lost. It may have been another cash purchase and he didn't yell at the clerk. The canvass didn't cover the other areas.

Gee............sounds most likely to me.

JMHO
fran

RaleighNC
06-23-2011, 01:23 PM
Does she have a power point? that would have helped her stay on track and jurors seeing the written word / bullet points will make a more lasting / higher validity impression

BirdHunter
06-23-2011, 01:23 PM
They might not attack, but they bark like crazy.And if they don't know you and sense danger they growl!

JiminWilton
06-23-2011, 01:23 PM
Folks, I'm just not happy with closings that suggest "he might have" or "he could have". (speaking about her comment about the gas mileage). Might as well argue "we have no proof, but he might have done it."

cody100
06-23-2011, 01:24 PM
Gas is somewhat addressed. LOL at the rock statement. Guess they can stretch that in closing.

RaleighNC
06-23-2011, 01:24 PM
liar liar pants on fire - he's talking WAAAYYYYYYYY too much on this message to go get the damn printout.

Good Lord - SHUT UP!

Too many details...... adrenaline, etc.

LYING.

happy2binNC
06-23-2011, 01:25 PM
Does she have a power point? that would have helped her stay on track and jurors seeing the written word / bullet points will make a more lasting / higher validity impression

She's showing something on the big screen behind her. Just not on the TV the way DS did in the first section of their closing.

JiminWilton
06-23-2011, 01:26 PM
Aha! The def didn't want you to know about the cash gas purchase. We may not know of another purchase made at the time the def SAID he was lost. It may have been another cash purchase and he didn't yell at the clerk. The canvass didn't cover the other areas.

Gee............sounds most likely to me.

JMHO
fran

I rather think the defense was objecting to identifying a suspect based on a single photo rather than a photo array. LE witnesses admitted that it was abnormal police procedure.

I don't think the gas mileage issue has been resolved satisfactorily.

And ummm with regard to more gas, maybe the gasoline he allegedly purchased in King was SuperAmoco and offered 40 mpg.

Keep trying.

Zamboni
06-23-2011, 01:27 PM
Hearing these messages is really powerful.

NCB
06-23-2011, 01:27 PM
I wish Chad would show the projection.

LadyL
06-23-2011, 01:29 PM
I don't know that playing these messages is going to have the effect on the jury that the prosecutor thinks they will. I'm really frustrated with this prosecution.

Zamboni
06-23-2011, 01:29 PM
By the way, imho he made another cash gas purchase at the same time he was getting dinner at the Cracker Barrel. The dinner was a cover for stopping at that time (he knew he's be pinging that cell tower during the stop.)

LadyL
06-23-2011, 01:30 PM
ok, but his comments to the people around him should have an effect

LadyL
06-23-2011, 01:31 PM
the unaccounted-for gas purchase would make no difference to me as a juror - he could get gas anywhere for cash

cody100
06-23-2011, 01:32 PM
now she is getting in the groove.

JiminWilton
06-23-2011, 01:32 PM
Wholly cow... do not convict because he was a bad husband or a jerk... you have, ummm, indicated at least a thousand times he was a bad husband and a jerk. How disingenuous.

cody100
06-23-2011, 01:34 PM
He is an alley cat. But don't convict him for that.
Makes no sense.

WolfpackWoman
06-23-2011, 01:34 PM
I think this is actually powerful. I like her point here. Don't convict because he was a cheater, but lying about working on the marriage, does go towards his credibility. If he lied on the stand about that, he'll lie on the stand about anything.

Although, I don't like her insinuations about JYL's love for CY. She can't know that.

JiminWilton
06-23-2011, 01:34 PM
the unaccounted-for gas purchase would make no difference to me as a juror - he could get gas anywhere for cash

The planning involved to make sure the Explorer got ~19.5 at each fuel stop was pretty crafty. Doesn't match with somebody who would bloody track up the house in his own loafers and then change into some size 10 sneakers just to confuse the investigators.
Doesn't fit with keeping a low profile and then making a scene during a surreptitious gasoline purchase.

RaleighNC
06-23-2011, 01:36 PM
She's so stiff - dry - no emotion.

There's lots of stuff that wold have been easy to get emotional about - how about an eye roll? or a "really? this is how you work on your marriage?"

Maybe I am just a fan of sarcasm - or a little bit of incredulousness

Ick. Not diggin' it at all. All the pauses are placed awkwardly, too.

otto
06-23-2011, 01:36 PM
Dogs are amazing creatures. They have excellent intuition. They would have KNOWN if someone else was in that house for bad purposes. That dog would have been going nuts is someone he did not know attacked Michelle. He would have picked up on her terror and gone after the attacker.

Dogs know. The most mild mannered animal will go crazy when something is that wrong. He also would have been VERY protective of that child.

good dogs take cues from their masters - if you are scared - they know it and they react.

As a note - police will tell you a dog is the most effective deterrent - perps don't like barking dogs - they draw attention to the scene. nevermind the possibility of being bitten.

If someone had put him in a closet - he would have tried frantically to get out - unless maybe it was Jason.......

I have two guard dogs, so I know that they'll be docile unless there's something they need to tell me. I suppose I was thinking about the Young's dog as having been exposed to all sorts of levels of drunkeness (through Jason), possible outrageous behavior and numerous strangers, and wondering if such a well socialized dog would react as a guard dog.

Boodles
06-23-2011, 01:38 PM
How much longer does she have? I have to leave and can't bear to miss her ending!

cody100
06-23-2011, 01:39 PM
cant be long

JiminWilton
06-23-2011, 01:40 PM
Gosh... JY didn't speak with the detectives... NEWS FLASH.... Why didn't we hear this before?

WolfpackWoman
06-23-2011, 01:41 PM
How much longer does she have? I have to leave and can't bear to miss her ending!

Not long, she got a time warning from the judge already.

ncsu95
06-23-2011, 01:41 PM
The planning involved to make sure the Explorer got ~19.5 at each fuel stop was pretty crafty. Doesn't match with somebody who would bloody track up the house in his own loafers and then change into some size 10 sneakers just to confuse the investigators.
Doesn't fit with keeping a low profile and then making a scene during a surreptitious gasoline purchase.

Actually, that is a bit misleading. The defense said he got lost, but knew exactly how many miles he drove around lost to get to 19.5 mpg?

cody100
06-23-2011, 01:43 PM
I love JS. He is efficient on time. 45 min lunch. LOL

RaleighNC
06-23-2011, 01:44 PM
I had a dog growing up. Docile, mild mannered, loved everyone.

One day, Mom was home alone and someone came to the door. It was a friend of my brothers. he had met the dog prior when he was there with my brother.

He came toward my mother / got a little too close. Nothing "weird" at first glance - but it freaked her out.

he moved immediately between her and him and gave a low growl. there was no doubt he would have protected her based on her fear and his intuition. He knew she was scared - he reacted.

Dogs don't have little inner voices telling us to ignore it or downplay their fears.

If it was a stranger - or even an acquaintance - I have no doubt he would have been protective. Lab, Rottweiler or cocker spaniel.

gracielee
06-23-2011, 01:45 PM
I preferred Howard Cummings to BH. JMO. Don't like her voice, her style, her delivery. Yes, she made some good points, but IMO, completely missed others. I would have said to the jury 'listen to the 911 tape, listen closely to it'............with the hope that the jurors will note cass' words in the background.

fran
06-23-2011, 01:49 PM
I know someone who's dog saved her life, from her husband. As he had her down on the ground and was strangling her, the dog jumped in and attacked the husband. Of course, having attempted to kill the dog a few weeks or days prior, didn't help the guy ingratiate himself with the dog.

just sayin'
fran

PS>...fwiw, I think the dog was most likely closed up somewhere. That's why he was going crazy when Meredith was there...fran

jilly
06-23-2011, 01:49 PM
Powerful ending!!!!!!!! Tell jason young you're not buying what he's selling!! Got goosebumps! I think they both tied everything up very nicely!!

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

Zamboni
06-23-2011, 01:50 PM
Could be wrong here, but didn't someone say that the 911 call tape given to the jurors had CY's comments near the end edited out as just blank air time?

less0305
06-23-2011, 01:51 PM
the unaccounted-for gas purchase would make no difference to me as a juror - he could get gas anywhere for cash

Yep, 24 hours a day anywhere. I don't put any stock whatsoever in the gas purchases. He used his credit card when he wanted to prove his whereabouts, too many other ways to obtain gas without proving your whereabouts. He's guilty as sin. He'll be found guilty I believe.

cody100
06-23-2011, 01:52 PM
I think all attorneys did a great job today as they presented their case. It will be interesting to see the jury's take on this case. We can never predict their viewpoint.

Madeleine74
06-23-2011, 01:52 PM
She NEVER mentioned his 3 or 4 computer searches? Big miss on that.

I give her a C+. David S. gets an A. Defense gets a B/B+. David S. had the best closing of all of them.

BH needs to be sent back to school, learn basic public speaking, and then more intensive public speaking. She has to learn how to speak without the 'umm..' 'ummmm' and to be more dramatic and elicit some emotion. She needs to learn her material backwards and forwards and not have to rely on reading from a piece of paper. When she is done speaking people should want to stand up and cheer for the closing she gave. She had some shining moments but lost focus. Her ending was pretty good.

I felt like cheering when David S. was done. With BH I was feeling sorry that the jurors had to wait until nearly 2pm for lunch. Blood sugar anyone? Couldn't they have gotten the jury some Powerbars at their 11:15am break to tide them over???

cody100
06-23-2011, 01:55 PM
I agree. DS was in Durham and acted as DA for a while after the lacrosse case. He was highly regarded there, but if I am not mistaken he did not want to stay there. He is a nice addition to CW's staff.

Madeleine74
06-23-2011, 01:56 PM
Oh, and GUILTY.

That SOB planned it and executed it, and I personally believe he acted alone.

I'm not buying anything he's trying to sell. There aren't hip waders tall enough to wade through that amount of horse manure.

borndem
06-23-2011, 02:00 PM
Surely the investigators ran the numbers for gas mileage!

They not only ran the numbers, Traveler, they drove the routes he took -- more than once. That was done early in the investigation -- the detectives had to go up to the HI anyway to gather evidence and to speak with the HI employees, and then to interview the woman at the hospital where JY did his presentation, and then eventually back to Raleigh, etc., so yes, they knew the mileage particulars pretty well.

JiminWilton
06-23-2011, 02:01 PM
Actually, that is a bit misleading. The defense said he got lost, but knew exactly how many miles he drove around lost to get to 19.5 mpg?

Defense used 20 miles at the "lost" mileage. As I remember, we're talking around 380 miles and 20 gallons each stop. The telling point was, if, as the State alleges, JY purchased ~6 gallons at King, he would have needed to average 38 mpg to make his next fuel stop.

Yes, I know that the confirmation biased crowd on here has offered numerous explanations as to how he could have gotten more gas, including one original thought that he siphoned gasoline from Michelle's car, but without proof of additional purchase, the numbers just don't add up.

And the State suggest "he could have" is just crummy.

Were I to be serving on this jury, the closing arguments of the prosecution were so out of bounds (no evidence of robbery when the correct turn was burglary) and repetitive and treating me like a child, and...um....with regard to the delivery, I'd hang the jury and give them another bite at the apple. But then, I'm a known, admitted curmudgeon.

borndem
06-23-2011, 02:05 PM
If I counted right ....attorney said 3 times Jason got lost.He's figuring that into the mileage. Throws off his math, IMO.

Yes, glee -- there's no reason for him to add mileage for JY getting lost, because he didn't -- he was just running a bit late due to unplanned time spent in Raleigh to tidy up. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

RaleighNC
06-23-2011, 02:06 PM
I would have liked to see a closing argument that starts with "why can't people just get divorced?" Every single person here (and on that jury) has thought this exact thought and I suspect you'd get some immediate credibilty with the jury- making the rest of your closing plausible.

And then - talk about the fact that is was apparent he did not want to be married - I mean really - who says they are working on their marriage and sleeping with 3 (?) other women? Can calling one of them 30 plus times A DAY????

and all the wacky coincidences....

and that every criminal makes mistakes - like cussing out the gas station clerk, or using the meds he used to sell to drug his daughter, or not asking HOW she died or WHAT happened? WHO DOES THAT?

I'll tell you who - someone who already knows.

jilly
06-23-2011, 02:09 PM
I would have liked to see a closing argument that starts with "why can't people just get divorced?" Every single person here (and on that jury) has thought this exact thought and I suspect you'd get some immediate credibilty with the jury- making the rest of your closing plausible.

And then - talk about the fact that is was apparent he did not want to be married - I mean really - who says they are working on their marriage and sleeping with 3 (?) other women? Can calling one of them 30 plus times A DAY????

and all the wacky coincidences....

and that every criminal makes mistakes - like cussing out the gas station clerk, or using the meds he used to sell to drug his daughter, or not asking HOW she died or WHAT happened? WHO DOES THAT?

I'll tell you who - someone who already knows.

I think Becky addressed all of the above.

Madeleine74
06-23-2011, 02:09 PM
At least BH reminded the jurors what JLY said about how it would be more difficult to be divorced from MY than.... (he said staying married, but I believe he was thinking, 'just killing her and being done with it/her.')

borndem
06-23-2011, 02:10 PM
I think the statements about the hotel clerk placing receipts and newspapers under/on the door is compelling. If the door was not latched, and he hung a USA Today on the handle, it seems it would have jarred the door. That was a good one on behalf of the defense IMO.

I'm not so sure -- the paper hanger was prolly in a rush to get that done & prolly did not notice. In hotels where I have stayed, there is plenty of room under the door to scoot a single sheet of paper, or one in an envelope w/o touching the door. These 2 items are insignificant IMO. Who knoze??

Madeleine74
06-23-2011, 02:12 PM
David S. covered all the coinky dinks...

- what kind of robber or random perp would not actually steal money? Valuables? A wallet left in a purse right out in the open? Just take a wedding ring off the finger of the victim and take 2 entire drawers from a jewelry box? (staged).

- What kind of robber or random perp would overkill a pregnant woman if the intent was robbery? (the intent of that crime was murder, not robbery).

- What kind of robber or random perp would take care of the 2 yr old (leave her alive), give her adult medicine and tuck her back into bed?

Those were just a few things he mentioned out of many.

LadyL
06-23-2011, 02:15 PM
I believe he's guilty but if I were on that jury, I'm not so sure the prosecution would have me convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. This is the worst lead prosecutor I've ever seen & I mean in courtrooms in my real life ... not on tv (:D).

RaleighNC
06-23-2011, 02:17 PM
I think Becky addressed all of the above.

She did - not well, not fluidly and IMO not in a way that it was all the compelling.

fromageball
06-23-2011, 02:19 PM
What do you all think about the possibility of a second attacker?

borndem
06-23-2011, 02:25 PM
Where is the proof though?

Either he paid cash where they didn't canvas -- or they didn't remember him where they did canvas. After 4 Brothers, I think he would have been dayam careful not to do anything that made him memorable a second tiem. Surely he wasn't dumb enuff to cause another scene -- I would think his mini-tantrum with Gracie would have scared him to death after he thought about it. JMO

otto
06-23-2011, 02:27 PM
What do you all think about the possibility of a second attacker?

The defense wants us to think that it was two other people that murdered Michelle. We would have to accept that those two people were able to enter the house as guests, or through an unlocked door, and that their only objective was to murder Michelle. That again points back to Jason - as no one has a good reason to murder a well-liked, hard working pregnant mom.

Madeleine74
06-23-2011, 02:31 PM
Nyet on the accomplice. That was, IMHO, JLY staging the scene to look like someone with size 10 feet was there.

He acted alone and without assistance (except for his hillbilly family afterwards in Brevard).

Great points David S. made about the blood on both sides of the closet door, having to move MY's body to get into his own closet. A random intruder/perp would not have known whose closet was whose, nor would have had any particular reason to move the body to get in there. JLY had a few reasons though: new/clean clothes, grab the Franklin shoes to parade around, and grab his stash of cash from a new wallet.

Goldenblatt
06-23-2011, 02:32 PM
I only watched closing arguments and think he is guilty but if I was a juror, I could not convict due to the reasonable doubt brought up that I don't believe the prosecution adequately eliminated that doubt. It is almost impossible to predict what a jury will decide.

fromageball
06-23-2011, 02:32 PM
The defense wants us to think that it was two other people that murdered Michelle. We would have to accept that those two people were able to enter the house as guests, or through an unlocked door, and that their only objective was to murder Michelle. That again points back to Jason - as no one has a good reason to murder a well-liked, hard working pregnant mom.

Right. The second set of prints bothers me though. Jason is connected to the hush puppy prints, but who left the others? I wonder if the sheriff has or will look into this any further...

gorealtors
06-23-2011, 02:33 PM
What do you all think about the possibility of a second attacker?


Don't believe there was a second attacker at all. When JY realized he had made a print with his HP, he reached into his closet and grabbed a pair of shoes that a friend had left previously and made a print with the smaller shoe. Quick thinker... of course, he is so good at lying this wasn't a challenge.:loser:

Madeleine74
06-23-2011, 02:33 PM
JLY is goin' down like the Titanic.

raisincharlie
06-23-2011, 02:34 PM
What do you all think about the possibility of a second attacker?


Its possible. If there is one, someone in Brevard knows who IMO, just as they know where the shirt, shoes and murder weapon are (and possibly the wedding rings).

Madeleine74
06-23-2011, 02:35 PM
Weren't those Franklin prints also found embedded in the coating that was put on the outside deck at some point before the murder? I remember reading about that, but nothing was brought up in trial. And wasn't it JLY who did that deck coating?

borndem
06-23-2011, 02:37 PM
State says no evidence of robbery... what sophistry. Robbery requires one to intimidate and be present before the victim. The missing rings and jewelry box drawers are evidence of burglary.
Labradors do not attack, but they do slobber and love all over you.


Oh yes, the DO attack, especially when a stranger is in the house attacking a member of the "pack." As gentle as they are -- we've had two females and they were big, big "lickers," they still have the pack mentality and are very protective of the property and most certainly their owners. I know, I've seen it. Not from mine, but it occurred at our friend's house (he owned the female from which we got our 1st lab). Also when my DH was o/o/t, a friend of his came over to return something & our lab would not let him in the door....

Madeleine74
06-23-2011, 02:42 PM
Jury is worried about their privacy. Judge is addressing this now. Jurors will not be "released" from their jury duty until they arrive at home or their intended destination after their verdict. They are not to be photographed by the media. Media cannot contact them until they are home and they have the right to their privacy and do not have to speak to anyone at any time.

Judge said he will not permit jurors to be harassed or anything else because of their public service and he has the means to deal with this if necessary!

(bet some of this is coming from that last case in which terrible things were said about the jurors who didn't give the verdict some people wanted).

gracielee
06-23-2011, 02:46 PM
What do you all think about the possibility of a second attacker?

Nope, I think JLY acted alone. I think he was enough of a crime fan, CSI etc., to think using a second pair of different sized shoes would be *cool*, stealthy of him. So he picks up a second pair at Dollar General. MOO

NCB
06-23-2011, 02:47 PM
I'm sure they are terrified--especially given the standing room only crowd in the courtroom this morning.

NCB
06-23-2011, 02:48 PM
OT: CA just called in ICA case.

gracielee
06-23-2011, 02:54 PM
OT: CA just called in ICA case.

Sounds like CA is 'telling untruths' for ICA, ya think?

NCB
06-23-2011, 02:58 PM
Sounds like CA is 'telling untruths' for ICA, ya think?

There are no words... :banghead:

traveler
06-23-2011, 03:12 PM
OT: CA just called in ICA case.

I'm not following that case, but am curious what ICA stands for...
Sorry to be OT!

gracielee
06-23-2011, 03:15 PM
I'm not following that case, but am curious what ICA stands for...
Sorry to be OT!

*Inmate Casey Anthony* to distinguish her from *CA* Cindy Anthony.

jilly
06-23-2011, 03:16 PM
She did - not well, not fluidly and IMO not in a way that it was all the compelling.

Well I'm more concerned with what she said rather than how. I thought she was very compelling after a bumpy start. Hit a home run in the end.

Just the Fax
06-23-2011, 03:16 PM
Probably good I am out of town in meetings.

raisincharlie
06-23-2011, 03:25 PM
I must admit, I am left wondering why the defense did not call Dr. Godwin or even the PI hired on JY's behalf to prove Meredith did it. I was all prepared to control my temper with Godwin's fabrications.

snowshuze
06-23-2011, 03:29 PM
I must admit, I am left wondering why the defense did not call Dr. Godwin or even the PI hired on JY's behalf to prove Meredith did it. I was all prepared to control my temper with Godwin's fabrications.
No moolah, no testify?

snowshuze
06-23-2011, 03:32 PM
<sigh> This is the hardest part....the WAITING.

Prancy
06-23-2011, 03:41 PM
I believe he's guilty but if I were on that jury, I'm not so sure the prosecution would have me convinced beyond a reasonable doubt. This is the worst lead prosecutor I've ever seen & I mean in courtrooms in my real life ... not on tv (:D).

I only caught most of the defense's closing, but they had me wondering about some things. I can see how a juror could have doubt. I was and am convinced of JY's guilt, however, I still have questions that bother me. If I were on the jury, I'm not sure what I would be thinking right now.

I believe that the probability of a conviction here is not so much the strength of the evidence as it is the incredible propensity Wake County juries have to convict a defendant if the state asks them to. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, just that who knows how long that may hold up.

gritguy
06-23-2011, 03:52 PM
Jury is worried about their privacy. Judge is addressing this now. Jurors will not be "released" from their jury duty until they arrive at home or their intended destination after their verdict. They are not to be photographed by the media. Media cannot contact them until they are home and they have the right to their privacy and do not have to speak to anyone at any time.

Judge said he will not permit jurors to be harassed or anything else because of their public service and he has the means to deal with this if necessary!

(bet some of this is coming from that last case in which terrible things were said about the jurors who didn't give the verdict some people wanted).

There were certainly disgusting comments made on other blogs and things like twitter with loons posting ignorant or threatening statements. I don't think that would be repeated in this case, or at least so I hope.

Madeleine74
06-23-2011, 03:53 PM
GritGuy,

What do you think the verdict will be (based on what you've seen of the evidence in this case)?

WolfpackWoman
06-23-2011, 03:55 PM
I'm kind of surprised the jury hasn't asked to see any of the evidence yet.

iucpa
06-23-2011, 03:58 PM
Has the jury asked for anything yet?

raisincharlie
06-23-2011, 03:59 PM
No moolah, no testify?

Could be, but my money is on other reasons...:D

gritguy
06-23-2011, 04:03 PM
GritGuy,

What do you think the verdict will be (based on what you've seen of the evidence in this case)?

The only thing I've really watched so far was about an hour of direct yesterday - only a bit of other testimony. The rest I've gleaned from here. And I am HIGHLY opinionated on this subject. I not only think the guy is guilty, I think he (and at least one other in his family) is perhaps the most disgusting person I've seen open a mouth to spew a lie. So, I can't well get outside of that box to consider a verdict other than guilty.

I do take the defense has put forth some reasonable points - gaps in the case evidence, contradictory evidence (DNA, eyewitness stuff). So, it gets back down to that well-worn discussion had before about the "totality" of the thing. Without the clear smoking gun, what do these people (jury) choose to believe based on analysis and gut feelings and the evidence can justify guilty or a reasonable doubt. I have high hopes that the picture is clear enough what this guy was up to.

He wanted freedom and money. And to him, women (perhaps men too) were objects to satisfy desire - not people of individual merit. Well, if it's an object standing between a lot of money (insurance he hoped to get and the full use of his income) and the ability to cat about without restriction, you knock the object out of the way.

He never cared his wife was dead. He never cared about justice for her. He never lifted a finger to do anything to solve the case of the brutal murder of the woman he loved, and his coming son. Never. Because he did it, and he thought stonewalling was his best friend (besides his mother). His e-mails to his sister indicated no grief, only the strong belief that over time, all would forget.

I do want to forget JY. But, I want my last memory of him to be the back of his head being escorted to jail by the sheriff, whereupon he will reside in captivity until his freedomless life finally ends.

gracielee
06-23-2011, 04:54 PM
The only thing I've really watched so far was about an hour of direct yesterday - only a bit of other testimony. The rest I've gleaned from here. And I am HIGHLY opinionated on this subject. I not only think the guy is guilty, I think he (and at least one other in his family) is perhaps the most disgusting person I've seen open a mouth to spew a lie. So, I can't well get outside of that box to consider a verdict other than guilty.

I do take the defense has put forth some reasonable points - gaps in the case evidence, contradictory evidence (DNA, eyewitness stuff). So, it gets back down to that well-worn discussion had before about the "totality" of the thing. Without the clear smoking gun, what do these people (jury) choose to believe based on analysis and gut feelings and the evidence can justify guilty or a reasonable doubt. I have high hopes that the picture is clear enough what this guy was up to.

He wanted freedom and money. And to him, women (perhaps men too) were objects to satisfy desire - not people of individual merit. Well, if it's an object standing between a lot of money (insurance he hoped to get and the full use of his income) and the ability to cat about without restriction, you knock the object out of the way.

He never cared his wife was dead. He never cared about justice for her. He never lifted a finger to do anything to solve the case of the brutal murder of the woman he loved, and his coming son. Never. Because he did it, and he thought stonewalling was his best friend (besides his mother). His e-mails to his sister indicated no grief, only the strong belief that over time, all would forget.

I do want to forget JY. But, I want my last memory of him to be the back of his head being escorted to jail by the sheriff, whereupon he will reside in captivity until his freedomless life finally ends.

IMO, this bears repeating. Well stated, gritguy. Simply want this disgusting POS to disappear from the face of the earth. Let mommy dearest visit him in the big house from this day forth. Someone earlier mentioned 'Wake Co. juries like to put these types away and/or future appeals will pan out. As far as I'm aware, I can't think of any Wake Co., or for that matter NC case of spouse killers that have been reversed on appeal. Anybody come up with some of the more famous 'spouse-killer' defendants winning appeals? The only somewhat famous case changed on appeal that I recall was Timothy Hennis. Thank goodness that one has finally been rectified. Hope he never sees the light of day again, maybe a bit of prison justice for him. :maddening:

gracielee
06-23-2011, 05:19 PM
My husband said 'Crabapple ( David Crabtree ), said the jury went home for the day.' Anybody else hear this, or is hubby's senility increasing again? :)

Skittles
06-23-2011, 05:31 PM
My husband said 'Crabapple ( David Crabtree ), said the jury went home for the day.' Anybody else hear this, or is hubby's senility increasing again? :)

Yes, just checked WRAL on TiVo--the jury has gone home.

Boodles
06-23-2011, 05:38 PM
I wonder if JY would have spoken to LE had his pals not called to advise him that he needed to stay quiet and speak to an attorney. That could have made such a huge difference. (And BTW, to me, that's an overly loyal friend. I would have cared more about truth than making sure my pal covered his butt.)