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View Full Version : Joe Jordan testimony (TES Volunteer)


wenwe4
06-28-2011, 09:47 AM
CM w/Joe Jordan....email to SO told them you thought remains were moved...yes did say that...how many people on your team do our search? show map....this area to the path how many people .....had 5 people walk along side road brush heavy....other than TES search that area? I didn't see anyone besides the people on my team search that area...do you remember interview on 11/5/09 - LDb, Corp. Edwards & Melich, Sgt Allen and your Atty present with you.....asked mass 100+ people turned out to search past the school? I don't remember......the only people that searched the pathway you pointed out were the 5 I mentioned.....explain what pathway speaking of? the one you marked sir....there were not 100 people searching there when I was present....did you know where A residence was? yes....drove past Hopespring Drive...media trucks around the house...generally a lot of people around the house....

do you have any knowledge of what happened to the email you sent out 12/13/08? no sir

Cross-Exam....
LDB moves easel....Mr. Jordan volunteered with TES in late Aug or early SEpt 2008, before volunteered for that position...begun to email OCSO before and suggested they have contact with certain individuals....yes

TES required keep paperwork - team leader documents individuals who went with you to search...provided with a map of area to search and indicate what was found on the search....space for indicating if items were found or need to be checked further....then to be debriefed by TES employee....take the time to debrief? yes...seen your original paperwork? approach witness to memory

#RM identify - original paper filled out 9/1/08 in conjuction w/search effort of TES....@ that point actually took detailed notes of what might be of interest to look @ later....exhibit shown on overhead #1 of 5 pages - publish....

Field team activity report for TES team leader search- Lori Cree & Churchills, Jen Craig, mid doc - assignment maps were attached...Church off of Chicasaw trail to the west of Suburban Drive....behind Elementary school Hidden Oaks....dogs and ATV behind school - dogs were not fresh...what do you mean....the gentleman told me...(object hearsay) not offer for truth of matter just why indicated dogs not fresh - dog handler told me dogs not fresh.....non highlighted area - what mean? when we searched I highlighted - anything we searched....wrote 2 humerous bones? I checked the Forensic Antho book - those were not human after they were checked....

Non highlighted areas - portions did not search

needs researched after water recedes - too dangerous to go into water ....alligators or water moccasins....TES concerned could disturb scene or walk on child's remains...

Mounds 4 & 5 and made reference to half buried bags....signed and dated that time and day....last page of document publish....

highlights made by you...we were given such broad areas ....I wanted to show only where we actually searched.....areas highlighted actually searched....lines show ...items of interest we found....didn't highlight entire area..

area where found pink baby blanket - cooler cleared by dogs...GAP bag or towels....mound...toys....arrows or lines going to particular location....is this as far away from the end of Suburban as you got in the woods? yes....if this is east furthest West you got was about here....however far you went in...couldn't get into the woods in that area due to relatively deep water....these documents were created before Caylee remains were even located....when emailed YM & Det. Allen on 12/13/08 - didn't know where Caylee's remains were found...speculation from media....in the area....I made a mistake.....

ReDirect-
CM ...comes to podium with papers....Mr. Churchill took you to spot and pointed out where remains were found? yes....saw Media trucks and saw blue tents from SO and all around.....on 12/13/08? didn't go out on 12/13/08 sent email....saw on tv big blue tents....object-....
Did you recognize the area that you searched? thought so @ the time.....water was clear? you could see? yes....any present reasons to offer testimony about where you serached? object-overrule

In this investigation in this case? were you threatened with felony prosecution? On my advice of counsel and my 5th amendment right....
Approach sidebar

wenwe4
06-28-2011, 10:08 AM
HHBP - Mr. Jordan you may step down for a moment and step outside...
Ms. Burdick - anything in addition to say
LDB -objection ...that was improper and counsel knew witness going to invoke 5th as that happened in the depo...

CM - sworn statement on 11/5/09 witness advised by LDb = gives immunity ....with him about his activity early on where they discussed with him that he broke the law - he knew he broke the law - and if he destroyed tape? he would break law again.....

CM looks for paper - statement 10/28/09 - tape recorded interview w/JJ and Corp. Edwards pg #34 ....acknowledge he recorded conversation and discuss how he did it....recorded surreptiously....his Atty recorded him without his knowledge ...giving a recording without this guys permission...broke the law don't break another by destroying it....recording him without knowledge - not to your benefit obviously go after me...

threatened with unlawful wiretap...then has immunity - he is not under prosecution....I (CM) have a right to ask him - he avoided it and took the 5th...did not expect him to take 5th @ that time his lawyer is sitting right there....if he has immunity then he would not have to plead 5th ....goes to crediblity -

LDB - Mr. Mason wasn't demonstrating there was a change between testimony he gave Nov 5,2009 and any other time...had to do with him elicit someone's 5th amend rights....Mr. Mason had inidicated to me ahead of time he would not be eliciting any questioning on the unlawful wiretapping.....

CM - the email in which he told Detectives on 12/13 the body was moved....today now he tries to testify it is all in conflict ...

HHBP - there is no requirement of him to invoke his 5th..

CM - I didn't ask him to take 5th....invoke his right to counsel....I asked him about his crediblity - he invoked here and now..

LDB - from time of depo until today...his suggestion now why he is changing testimony is without merit - told CM made a mistake - he told jury he made a mistake - he is not impeaching him on anything......

CM - diagrams ...we were not part of his depo....invoke 5th rights now or before.....you guys don't come after me I am on your team...he chose to invoke.

HHBp - Davis vs. Alaska - if pending criminal proceeding to issue of bias...

unlawful recording ...felony ....end of Oct 2009....he was granted use immunity for prosection for his statement only.....3 years for felony under 775.15 is the time limitations ..it is 2 or 3 year...it is a 3 year....

the proper procedure would have been simply profer to see if witness would invoke his 5th...it is proper to bring up that witness has been granted use immunity by SA...up to the SA to go into details of what he was given use immunity....may or may not have been a dastardly crime recording voice without permission...

HHBP to CM - what is your line of question regarding that particular issue.

LDB - we will move to stricken - impermissable..if he wants to ask related to bias....he is on redirect he is not on cross..

HHBP -

mombomb
06-28-2011, 10:17 AM
SIDEBAR #2 (9:47-9:50)

Jury sent out at 9:53

Witness asked to step out.

(JJ apparently recorded some conversations with his attorney and others)

LDB - the objection I lodged was based on the propriety of CM eliciting the witness invoking the 5th in front of the jury.

CM - In his sworn stated in November where no defense lawyers were present LDB advised him he was given immunity for what he said and then they carried on and which they discussed with him that he had broken the law and he knew that he had broken the law. Illegal wiretapping.

CM - Regarding his September 28, 2009 recorded statement with Det. Edwards - page 34 - talking about acknowledging he had recorded the conversation and discussing how he did it. And you memorialized the statement in a recording you did surreptitiously, right? And on page 39 - I contact you and give you a recording done without his permission? You broke the law, don't break another without destroying it. Witness said "you know its not to your benefit to go after me". He has a right to talk to him about this. It goes to his credibility. He did not expect him to take the 5th amendment at this time; and, when LDB immunized him, he didn't really have a 5th amendment privilege.

HHJBP - anything else from the State?

LDB - only that CM was not demonstrating there was a change in testimony. CM had told her that he was not going to be asking him about the illegally recorded conversation. She maintains her objection.

CM - "You made a mistake, in my opinion the body was moved". His testimony is all in conflict.

HHJBP - was it represented to the State that there would be no questions involving him invoking his 5th amendment. That he decided to do it was a different story. He decided to do that.

LDB - there is no changed testimony. His suggestion is this is now why he is changing testimony is without merit. He told CM in depo that he made a mistake and he told the Jury that today also.

CM - He did not ask him about invoking his rights.

HHJBP - Davis vs. Alaska -

IF there is a pending criminal proceeding that goes to the issue of bias, then counsel can question on that. Unlawful interception - a felony of the 3rd degree. Alleged commission of crime? End of October 2009. He was granted use immunity of prosecution?

LDB - for his statement only.

HHJBP - Statute? 3 years? The proper procedure would have been to proffer the question to see if the witness would invoke his 5th amendment right then we could have dealt with that. It is fair game that this witness has been granted use immunity by the prosecution. It would have been up to the state as to whether to go into the details.

Mr. Mason what is your continued line of questioning? With his response, he would stop.

LDB - we are moving the response be stricken. But if he wants to ask him other question as it relates to bias, no objection.

LDB, CM and JB are having a conversation.

HHJBP: Page and line of his deposition where he invoked his 5th amendment right? Vol 1 was December, Vol 2 was Feb.

LDB - Vol 2, page 74, line 3 - Vol 1, page 8, line 27.

HHJBP - was he subpoenaed by the State or Defense today?

CM - Defense.

HHJBP - question asked "were you threatened with felony prosecution?" That question does not necessary elicit the response he gave of invoking his 5th amendment right. He could have answered yes or no and because he is not skilled, did the first thing that came to mind. Mr. Jordan's attorney - was your client given use immunity?

Attorney McClallen- for the recording, yes your honor, but not for his testimony today.

HHJBP - I will instruct the jury to disregard his last comment about the 5th amendment.

LDB - I will agree to offer him any use immunity for his testimony today. That will probably open up other doors.

HHJBP: Mr. McClallen - you might want to go out and talk to your client.

HHJBP - give the jury their special break and we will be in recess for at least 15 minutes.

(10:16)

wenwe4
06-28-2011, 10:40 AM
CM – were you threatened with Felony prosecution….Mr. Jordan – probably had knee jerk reaction and invoked his 5th……his Atty is here today…for the recording yes your Honor (use Immunity) …HHbp will instruct jury to disregard last comment about 5th….defense can inquire about use immunity but not about what he did…..those questions would require him to invoke his 5th amendment right…
LDB – opens up other doors…
HHBP – it probably will open some…but when you shut one you open many…
It is 15 min after – let jury know special break ….recess @ least 15 min.
HHBP back in court 10:35 EST…says witness answer was unresponsive to the question posed….immediate sidebar….CA & LA sit together in courtroom….

mombomb
06-28-2011, 10:52 AM
10:36

Jury not in courtroom

Let's return the witness and Mr. McClallen.

LDB - It's my understanding the Court is going to strike the response?

HHJBP - yes. The response was basically non-responsive to the question that was asked. (His Honor chuckling). Okay, McClallen did you talk to your client?

Yes.

HHJBP - and you explained to your client? Mr. Mason?

CM - can we approach?

SIDEBAR #3 (10:36-10:49

Jury coming back (10:49)

(CM and JB not looking happy)

HHJBP: To the Jury: The following 2 questions have been withdrawn and you are to disregard - question about reason to change testimony and were you threatened with felony prosecution and his assertion of 5th amendment right.

REDIRECT BY CM

No further questions.

No recross.

Witness excused.