PDA

View Full Version : Rebecca Nalepa


Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5

Winward1
07-14-2011, 11:05 PM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304203304576446184124867402.html

Tinsamd
07-14-2011, 11:41 PM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304203304576446184124867402.html

The brother told officers that he found Ms. Nalepa with a rope around her neck and hanging from a balcony off the main house, Capt. Curran said, adding that Adam Shacknai cut down Ms. Nalepa before police arrived on the scene. Capt. Curran said police found Ms. Nalepa nude, with her feet and hands bound behind her.

"We have not determined if this is criminal or if this is a death investigation," Capt. Curran said. "Whether it is a homicide or a suicide, it is one of the most bizarre and unusual cases we have ever seen."

Hmmm.... So he's 54, extremely wealthy & established... She was 32......

On Monday, local police had responded to an emergency call to the same house after Mr. Shacknai's 6-year-old son fell down stairs. The boy, whose mother is Mr. Shacknai's second wife, suffered severe injuries and remains hospitalized.

Lea Corbin, a spokeswoman with the Coronado Police Department, said the boy's fall has been deemed a "tragic accident," and there is no ongoing investigation. Ms. Nalepa and a young girl, described as 13 or 14 years old, were the only people home at the time, Ms. Corbin said.

Capt. Curran said the two incidents appear to be separate, and investigators haven't found any connection between the cases.

Interesting.

In a statement after the death was reported on Wednesday, a Medicis spokeswoman expressed sadness at the "tragic incident at a California property owned by Jonah Shacknai."

Winward1
07-15-2011, 01:01 AM
The whereabouts of Jonah Shacknai over the past few days seems equally mysterious.

Charlie09
07-15-2011, 01:34 AM
here is another article
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/14/woman-found-dead-spreckels-mansion-identified/

Winward1
07-15-2011, 01:37 AM
Why would a suicide by hanging victim bind their hands, if they could?

Charlie09
07-15-2011, 01:48 AM
Why would a suicide by hanging victim bind their hands, if they could?

There was a comment on SignonSanDIego that they would do it if they were trying to frame someone for murder. put the noose on first, then bind your arms and ankles and roll off the balcony. I guess it would matter if her hands were in front or behind her.

Winward1
07-15-2011, 01:59 AM
Interesting, possible if not plausible? Complex dynamics in some of the personal lives there.

Charlie09
07-15-2011, 02:07 AM
This will be interesting to watch

BrownRice
07-15-2011, 08:09 AM
The whereabouts of Jonah Shacknai over the past few days seems equally mysterious.

I thought I read he was at the hospital with his gravely injured child? His ex-wife (child's mother) could easily vouch for him.

I find it so typical he's a (very wealthy) middle-aged man, 2x divorced with kids from 2 other marriages, and he's involved with a 32 year old party woman. Grow up.

I spent most of my life in the San Diego area and his mansion is on my list to buy when I win the lottery. :crazy: Love, Love, Love the Ocean Blvd in Coronado.

BrownRice
07-15-2011, 08:17 AM
It will be interesting to see the toxicology report to see if she was heavily intoxicated. When this first broke, I read somewhere a neighbor said there was a loud party (Tuesday night?) which was odd because the child had been injured (severely) on Monday and was in the hospital (weird in that why would you have a party after such a tragic accident).

Re: suicide vs homicide. I don't get the feet binding if it was suicide. MAYBE (big maybe) I get the hands (thought is so you wouldn't be able to change your mind after you jump - like try to get the noose off your neck? That's the only thing I can think of). Also, since the body was naked, there are not too many women I know who are so confident in their bodies they would even think about exposing their naked body to the world like that - dead or alive.

But if it was murder, wouldn't someone have heard her screaming and fighting for her life? Those houses are pretty close together (even though they are large). Coronado is very quiet at night - I would think someone would have heard a woman being bound and then knowing she was going to be hanged.

Amalie
07-15-2011, 08:31 AM
Here's a link to yesterday's press conference.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-linger-about-womans-death-at-coronado-mansion?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=6051226&redirected=true

Carpe Pacem
07-16-2011, 01:48 AM
The suicide consideration sounds ludicrous. How in the world could a person tie up their hands behind their back, as stated by the local news. I feel for the little boy who is fighting for his life after his accident, and also feel that the two events are tied together. Just tragic.

Charlie09
07-16-2011, 02:11 AM
The suicide consideration sounds ludicrous. How in the world could a person tie up their hands behind their back, as stated by the local news. I feel for the little boy who is fighting for his life after his accident, and also feel that the two events are tied together. Just tragic.

I'm in Orange county and had only seen hands tied together...not if it was in front or back. Does she really have a daughter who lived there too?

I agree it's tied together too.

thesaint
07-16-2011, 03:30 AM
"The body of a 32-year-old woman, Rebecca M. Zahau, was found hanging from the balcony of the Ocean Boulevard house Wednesday, her nude body bound at the ankles and her wrists tied behind her back, sheriff’s investigators said."

thesaint
07-16-2011, 03:39 AM
According to Phoenix court records, Zahau was charged with shoplifting in 2009. Police said she entered a Macy’s store and put more than $1,000 in jewelry into shopping bags from different stores. Loss prevention officers stopped her as she was walking out and called police, said Sgt. Steve Martos.

She pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor and agreed to pay nearly $500 and attend a shoplifting diversion course. She used a court-appointed attorney.


http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/15/woman-mansion-mystery-devoted-tycoon-boyfriend/

Winward1
07-16-2011, 11:23 AM
A shoplifting optician, twice acrimoniously divorced multi-millionaire, a tragic accident a few days prior and yet to be determined circumstances of death. Hmm...

Winward1
07-16-2011, 12:33 PM
So someone was trying to make it look like suicide but forgot the part about tying someone's hands at their back.

SunnieRN
07-16-2011, 01:07 PM
Why would a suicide by hanging victim bind their hands, if they could?

Simple. They wouldn't, but someone else would!

It stated she was the only one home with her boyfriends son, when he fell down the stairs. That 6 year old child is now in an induced coma and is consideree 'brain dead'. My gosh, that was quite the fall?!

Whole things is stinky!

CocoChanel
07-16-2011, 01:42 PM
Of course it is a loss anytime someone dies due to other-than-natural-circumstances. However, at this point I am more concerned with the child. What sort of situation led to his 'fall' that now has him in an induced-coma? He's only 6 YEARS OLD. Please tell me Child Protective Services is investigating. These 2 tragic events ARE indeed 'related' because they happened within the SAME small circle of people within the SAME house within the SAME few days. Those factors alone make them related IMHO.

nursebeeme
07-16-2011, 02:54 PM
The Rebecca Nalepa death in Jonah Shacknai’s mansion prompted new search warrants late yesterday. Jonah Shacknai and Rebecca Nalepa (photos below) were dating for two years at the time of her death this week. The millionaire used his Coronado Island home as a summer residence. But on Friday, local detectives were back at the home searching for new evidence.

another snip:

And how did she get into the condition in which she was found? Her hands were tied behind her back, her feet were tied together. She was found unclothed, face down in the mansion’s outside courtyard, not hanging from a balcony as reported in the 911 call.


oh and another small snip:

Earlier this week, a 911 call from the residence by a female’s voice reported that Jonah’s son had been injured. On Tuesday night there was a reported party in the mansion.

http://news.lalate.com/2011/07/16/rebecca-nalepa-death-in-jonah-shacknai-mansion-prompts-new-search-warrants/

nursebeeme
07-16-2011, 02:59 PM
Wednesday morning, Shacknai's brother Adam Shacknai, a Memphian, told police he discovered Nalepa's naked body hanging from a balcony with her hands bound behind her back with electrical cord.

"Right now, I'm not going into details," said Capt. Tim Curran with the San Diego County Sheriff's Department. "I'm not going to compromise the integrity of the investigation."


--------
another snip
--------

Adam Shacknai lives in an apartment in Midtown Memphis. His leasing agent neighbor, Robert Sanders, said he last saw him a few days ago.

"He said that he was going to have to go back out on the tugboat company he works for," said Sanders.

Instead, Adam Shacknai ended up in San Diego in a guest house in his brother's mansion.

http://www.wmctv.com/story/15091608/memphian-discovers-body-in-brothers-san-diego-mansion

nursebeeme
07-16-2011, 03:02 PM
Monday, Jonah Shacknai's son fell down a staircase at the home and is in a coma. Nalepa was the only one at home with the boy when that happened.

http://www.wmctv.com/story/15091608/memphian-discovers-body-in-brothers-san-diego-mansion

nursebeeme
07-16-2011, 03:06 PM
Jonah's brother Adam told investigators he cut Nalepa down from the rope suspending her over a courtyard. She was naked, and both her ankles and wrists were bound.

Adam Shacknai lives in a guest house on the property.

----another snip-----

Mary Zahau-Loehner spoke to ABC News about her sister Rebecca's state of mind before the gruesome discovery, saying that when the sisters spoke on Tuesday night, things with Rebecca did not seem out of the ordinary.

"She was normal, fine, just getting ready to go to bed," Zahau-Loehner said.

On Monday, Jonah Shacknai's six year old son suffered serious injuries due to a fall.

The boy "had fallen from stairs and was not breathing and did not have a pulse,

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/181208/20110715/jonah-shacknai-rebecca-nalepa-adam-shacknai-murder-suicide-medicis.htm

Quester
07-16-2011, 05:48 PM
unofficially - 6 year old Max has passed

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/coronado-mansion-death?redirected=true

time
07-16-2011, 07:55 PM
I'm sure Jonah Shacknai could have been in the hospital at the surrounding time, but I wonder why no one has come out and just said that?

I haven't even seen Shacknai make a statement that her death is horrible or sad or anything.... anyone else know? I find that odd since he lived with her for two years.

I thought the party on Tues was strange also, but why no details on that?

time
07-16-2011, 08:47 PM
Calif. Report: Valley CEO's Son Has Died

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/crime/cali.-reports-valley-ceos-son-has-died-07162011

Sad

As far as Rebecca, it still says "More information is expected to be released on Monday."

A local paper has a little more and slightly different story

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/trainer-recalls-spreckels-victims-noticeable-limp

He (fitness trainer at their gym) said he rarely had long conversations with Zahau, but did so last Saturday, when the woman excitedly discussed a party she was planning for Tuesday, which turned out to be the day before she died.

“She was really stoked about it,” he said.

But two days after Zahau's talk with Holman, Shacknai's 6-year-old son fell down a staircase in the mansion and suffered severe injuries. A kennel owner who visited with Zahau Tuesday said she was deeply shaken by the incident.

Investigators have said they do not believe the party took place.

time
07-16-2011, 09:10 PM
This seems like a more in depth article:

Bizarre death at Arizona CEO's mansion grips Coronado Island

by Ken Alltucker and Robert Anglen - Jul. 16, 2011 12:00 AM

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2011/07/16/20110716arizona-ceo-dead-woman-coronado-mystery.html#ixzz1SJunuEID

Memphian discovers body in brother's San Diego mansion
http://www.wmctv.com/story/15091608/memphian-discovers-body-in-brothers-san-diego-mansion

Adam Shacknai lives in an apartment in Midtown Memphis. His leasing agent neighbor, Robert Sanders, said he last saw him a few days ago.

"He said that he was going to have to go back out on the tugboat company he works for," said Sanders.

Instead, Adam Shacknai ended up in San Diego in a guest house in his brother's mansion.

Adam Shacknai said from San Diego that the police were questioning him but he did not have anything to do with Nalepa's death.

Investigators said Adam Shacknai and Nalepa were the only people in the mansion when the body was found. His brother and ex-wife were at the hospital.

Quester
07-16-2011, 09:56 PM
Re: Max' death

In the video at the following site, it's mentioned that a chandelier was involved in Max' fall.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/coronado-mansion-death?redirected=true

colette
07-16-2011, 11:16 PM
I'm sure Jonah Shacknai could have been in the hospital at the surrounding time, but I wonder why no one has come out and just said that?

I haven't even seen Shacknai make a statement that her death is horrible or sad or anything.... anyone else know? I find that odd since he lived with her for two years.

I thought the party on Tues was strange also, but why no details on that?

In the link just above there was this:
Dina and Jonah Shacknai were divorced in 2008. Friends say they were both at Max's bedside at the time of Zahau's mysterious death.

Also in looking at that link/video it shows a round table near the body. I think that was the table she stood on. A long orange electrical cord must have been tied to a balcony above, then hung down near that table. That table looks like the one LE removed with a broken leg. Personally I think she might have stagged a suicide. It was pretty clear that the boy was not going to live when they found him with no pulse. Things would never be the same, many married couple split after a child death and she was only a girlfriend. A girlfriend who was watching a boy that died.

Leomoon80
07-16-2011, 11:43 PM
From watching the Videos it appears she was quite "down and depressed" according to those who talked with her. They thought it was because of the fall the little boy took and the hospital .
However, it does make one wonder, why the "party" went on, the next evening on Tuesday after this tragic fall the child took.

Winward1
07-17-2011, 08:47 AM
Son is still alive:

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2011/07/16/20110716arizona-ceo-shacknai-coronado-son.html

Winward1
07-17-2011, 08:57 AM
“I thought he was as arrogant as hell...”

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/16/spreckels-mansion-owner-described-go-getter/

ohiogirl
07-17-2011, 09:50 AM
If LE gets called to a house and a person is found dead, hanged from a balcony with hands and feet bound, why in the world would it take two days for them to get search warrants and seal the house as a crime scene? Don't crime investigators realize that you can't wait two days to collect evidence? What is wrong with law enforcements offices that they don't even seem to consider anything a crime until public outcry forces them to do something?
(I know, not all LE offices do this, but it seems like there are some that are extremely behind the times.) If you aren't sure of the circumstances, seal it off until your are.
I guess $$ talks. jmo

time
07-17-2011, 01:53 PM
In the link just above there was this:
Dina and Jonah Shacknai were divorced in 2008. Friends say they were both at Max's bedside at the time of Zahau's mysterious death.

Also in looking at that link/video it shows a round table near the body. I think that was the table she stood on. A long orange electrical cord must have been tied to a balcony above, then hung down near that table. That table looks like the one LE removed with a broken leg. Personally I think she might have stagged a suicide. It was pretty clear that the boy was not going to live when they found him with no pulse. Things would never be the same, many married couple split after a child death and she was only a girlfriend. A girlfriend who was watching a boy that died.

Thanks, good analysis, I'll take a look at t he pictures.

I don't exactly agree on her being 'just a girlfriend" when reports are that they had lived together for two years. Maybe they weren't married, but I don't think she was 'just' a girlfriend. She would have known the boy already for 1/3 -1/2 his life.

I guess you could tie your hands behind your back, it's possible but very unlikely? And, how likely is that a woman would commit suicide naked - her friends and family said they didn't think she would ever want to be seen like that.

What I'm most curious about is if the party on Tues took place and, if so, who was there and what time did everyone leave?

time
07-17-2011, 02:00 PM
“I thought he was as arrogant as hell...”

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/16/spreckels-mansion-owner-described-go-getter/

Interesting article. Not sure why, but this caught my eye:

The couple married the following year in Beverly Hills, but the union didn’t last. She told a psychologist that while on their honeymoon, Shacknai asked her if she thought the marriage was a mistake, according to court records filed in Maricopa County, Ariz.

Wouldn't that just be a bummer to hear on your honeymoon! So much for romance. :(

and...

“Rebecca was a very experienced and skilled technician who was well-respected by our doctors, her co-workers and our patients,” Trier said.

She quit in December to devote more time to Shacknai and his three children, Trier said. Her divorce was finalized in February, and she changed back to her maiden name in May, court records show.

time
07-17-2011, 02:04 PM
If LE gets called to a house and a person is found dead, hanged from a balcony with hands and feet bound, why in the world would it take two days for them to get search warrants and seal the house as a crime scene? Don't crime investigators realize that you can't wait two days to collect evidence? What is wrong with law enforcements offices that they don't even seem to consider anything a crime until public outcry forces them to do something?
(I know, not all LE offices do this, but it seems like there are some that are extremely behind the times.) If you aren't sure of the circumstances, seal it off until your are.
I guess $$ talks. jmo

I kind of wondered the same thing about searching the house. Also, you don't need a search warrant if the owner give you permission do you? OR?

The police in Coronado are small also and they had to call in the Sheriff's office. Seems to me they would have called in the FBI? I heard that for the boys death, just the Coronado police were handling it.

girlinblue
07-17-2011, 02:30 PM
I'm not too sure that one can convincingly tie his/her own hands behind their back. Feet, maybe, but unless you are Houdini or the Greatest Boy Scout Knot Tyer, I just don't see it being passing for authentic. It would be loose. Think about it -- how many of us can scratch our own backs, let alone do things with our arms behind us? If I tried to tie my hands in front of me, I still don't think it would be very tight. I guess I think that's a dead giveaway. For example, in the Jayna Murray/Lululemon murder, Brittany Norwood attempted to make it look real and they knew straight away that it was fishy because of the way her hands WEREN'T tied. And why stage your murder that way? Pack your bags and leave town, cut yourself and throw some blood around. I don't know... It's nefarious.

Also, why wouldn't she be with her significant other at the hospital? I understand you can't be there 24/7, but is there any mention anywhere of her having visited the boy or being there to support her boyfriend?

It sounds like this accident with the son happened and someone blamed Rebecca. Even if she blamed herself and decided to go out on her own out of guilt (or because she thought people assumed her guilt) the rest is just uncalled for. Who restrains his/herself? So she couldn't stop herself? If you really want to die, you won't anyway.

I hate to see so much tragedy happen and have someone's death sold short.

Quester
07-17-2011, 03:05 PM
Re: Party Tuesday evening

[trainer at Hollywood Fitness] said he rarely had long conversations with Zahau, but did so last Saturday, when the woman excitedly discussed a party she was planning for Tuesday, which turned out to be the day before she died.

“She was really stoked about it,” he said.

7/16 http://coronado.patch.com/articles/trainer-recalls-spreckels-victims-noticeable-limp


[San Diego Sheriffs Capt. Tim Curran] said there was no party at the residence Tuesday night, a rumor that quickly spread through the neighborhood Wednesday as investigators roamed the cordoned-off Spreckels property.

They did, however, identify Adam Shacknai as the last person known to have seen Nalepa alive.

7/14 http://coronado.patch.com/articles/faced-with-bizarre-case-detectives-try-to-sort-out-spreckels-death

Winward1
07-17-2011, 04:16 PM
What I find weird, if it was reported accurately and it seems some things here have not been, is she was living with a multi-millionaire, had a job until recently, and, if I'm not wrong, during that time was caught shoplifting some major league loot.

BrownRice
07-17-2011, 05:38 PM
Also, why wouldn't she be with her significant other at the hospital? I understand you can't be there 24/7, but is there any mention anywhere of her having visited the boy or being there to support her boyfriend?


This is only my opinion - but I would assume the boy's mother would have had Rebecca tarred and feathered had she come to the hospital. From what I read, the relationship between Rebecca and Jonah started before the end of his second marriage (to the boy's mother). The accident (which has not been disclosed) was under Rebecca's watch (regardless if it was her fault of not watching him properly or just a freak thing). NO WAY in heck I would let my ex's "girlfriend" come into the hospital room with my nearly dead child in that scenario.

The description of Rebecca as "a second mother" to his 3 kids is from her friends/family. I highly doubt his ex-wifes would call the 32 year old party girl a "mother figure" to their children even if he had 50/50 custody.

Again, just my opinion.

Quester
07-17-2011, 06:46 PM
Re: the boy’s fall

I found the following quote interesting coupled with the possible involvement of a chandelier. I’m going out on a limb here wondering if somehow the boy was found hanging from the chandelier and therefore unable to breath ????

The boy was left unable to breath and without a pulse Monday after a fall at his home; he was revived and was last known to be at Rady Children's Hospital.

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/all-eyes-have-turned-to-coronado

CocoChanel
07-17-2011, 07:46 PM
This is just so bizarre and tragic. I do not know if this child has died or not, but I assume there is very little hope that he will recover and the family has come to terms with his death. He was only 6 years old. What in the world happened? If it was a horrible horrible accident, there most definitely should be an investigation of some sort. There must be answer as to why this child suffered these injuries. I pray that wealth will not play a part in keeping the answers from us.

Quester
07-17-2011, 09:10 PM
Coronado mansion owner confirms death of 6-year-old son

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/coronado-mansion-death?redirected=true

time
07-17-2011, 09:28 PM
This is only my opinion - but I would assume the boy's mother would have had Rebecca tarred and feathered had she come to the hospital. From what I read, the relationship between Rebecca and Jonah started before the end of his second marriage (to the boy's mother). The accident (which has not been disclosed) was under Rebecca's watch (regardless if it was her fault of not watching him properly or just a freak thing). NO WAY in heck I would let my ex's "girlfriend" come into the hospital room with my nearly dead child in that scenario.

The description of Rebecca as "a second mother" to his 3 kids is from her friends/family. I highly doubt his ex-wifes would call the 32 year old party girl a "mother figure" to their children even if he had 50/50 custody.

Again, just my opinion.

Maybe I missed it, but where are you getting that she was a party girl or partied anymore than Jonah Shackna?

I have a difficult time seeing a 54 year old with a 6 year old kid, but not a 32 year old so I'm not sure why she couldn't be a mother figure - and, that is given my cringing about seeing wealthy men pairing up with women 20-30 years younger so often. One article said she quit her job to spend more time with him and his kids. I don't see a 32 year old as incapable of being a parent to kids those ages and for all we know, the kids real mothers had no qualms about it. Maybe they did have qualms also, but is there anyway it says they did?

Jonah Shackna may not have been divorced when he started seeing her but it appears she wasn't either and her ex spoke well of her to the press.

IzzyBlanche
07-17-2011, 10:21 PM
Maybe I missed it, but where are you getting that she was a party girl or partied anymore than Jonah Shackna?



I was wondering this myself.

Money Girl
07-18-2011, 04:59 AM
How I wish we still had our wonderful Forensic Astrologers to shed light on this series of events.

Melanie
07-18-2011, 05:19 AM
The suicide consideration sounds ludicrous. How in the world could a person tie up their hands behind their back, as stated by the local news. I feel for the little boy who is fighting for his life after his accident, and also feel that the two events are tied together. Just tragic.

This is talk of the town here in San Diego. No way does this city think this woman comitted suicide. We think the brother was involved.

I don't think it's been released, but it's pretty much been confirmed that the little boy was "planking" when he fell. The latest fad here. A friend of my son's was found planking on the roof of a house!

Planking is described as the practice of lying down flat with arms to the side, to mimic a wooden plank.

Max Shacknai, 6, is now DEAD!!!!

I find it eery that the girlfriend supposedly comitted suicide after the fact.

Lots of speculation, but the brother is being looked at closely. 1. Did he push the little boy? Did he kill the girlfriend?

Shacknai’s brother Adam, who was staying in the guesthouse and the only other person home at the time, found Zahau and cut her down before police arrived.

Is there jealousy between the brothers?

Had Max survived, we may know the answers. But with 2 dead bodies, it's going to be difficult.

What bothers me is Coronado is a small suburb of San Diego - mostly military and affluent homeowners and travellers. They don't even have a homicide squad. So the early days of investigation may have caused evidence to be destroyed or tampered with. There's only been 2 murders there in 10 years.

I've heard different versions of the hands and legs -- the latest being Zahau's hands were bound behind her back and her feet were bound, but her hands and feet did not appear ever to have been bound together, police said. Though Adam Shacknai said she was hanging from a rope, investigators did not disclose what kind of material bound her hands and feet.

That is just plain odd! Also if you're going to commit suicide, do you take all your clothes off first?

But I tell ya, all eyes are focused on the brother right now. Even if little Max fell down the stairs, was pushed, or if this was a planking stunt gone horribly wrong.

MOO

Mel

Melanie
07-18-2011, 05:34 AM
I was wondering this myself.

I've yet to hear any indication that she was a party girl. I'm gonna throw out a worst case scenario here, and something that's going around the circles.

If the hands were not bound together, but appeared to have been bound by something (no one is telling us what), and she was naked, with a rope around her neck. Which said rope was cut down by the brother.

Erotic asphyxiation or breath control play is the intentional restriction of oxygen to the brain for sexual arousal.

It doesn't make any sense to me, especially after the tragic accident with little Max. There's no proof. But why the bound hands? Why is she naked? It would be very easy for someone to stage this to look like a suicide -- especially in a town where the biggest offense is a speeding ticket.

Was there something going on inside that house that's being protected by the wealthy owner? Was she being shared with the brother?

I know - lots of conspiracy theories going on. We're all just anxious to determine how she died, and if it's a murder - by whom. I just can't see past that this is a suicide.

Thanks for letting me ramble.

MOO

Mel

Melanie
07-18-2011, 05:58 AM
It will be interesting to see the toxicology report to see if she was heavily intoxicated. When this first broke, I read somewhere a neighbor said there was a loud party (Tuesday night?) which was odd because the child had been injured (severely) on Monday and was in the hospital (weird in that why would you have a party after such a tragic accident).

Re: suicide vs homicide. I don't get the feet binding if it was suicide. MAYBE (big maybe) I get the hands (thought is so you wouldn't be able to change your mind after you jump - like try to get the noose off your neck? That's the only thing I can think of). Also, since the body was naked, there are not too many women I know who are so confident in their bodies they would even think about exposing their naked body to the world like that - dead or alive.

But if it was murder, wouldn't someone have heard her screaming and fighting for her life? Those houses are pretty close together (even though they are large). Coronado is very quiet at night - I would think someone would have heard a woman being bound and then knowing she was going to be hanged.

BBM: I agree 100%.

According to Rebecca's gym friend,

1. he had just spoken to Zahau on Saturday, a few days before she was found dead.

2. I asked her, 'How is your day going?'…you know, 'Anything going on in the weekend?' said Holman. "She had mentioned they were getting ready for some party or something like that [and]… seemed happy and upbeat about it."

Source: http://www.10news.com/news/28579183/detail.html

3. Max has a horrible accident on Monday.

4. Zahau's sister Mary Zahau-Loehner, 33, told ABC News she spoke with her sister around midnight Tuesday, and everything seemed to be OK.

"She was normal, fine, just getting ready to go to bed," said Zahau-Loehner, who lives in Saint Joseph, Mo.

Source: http://www.mizozo.com/weird/07/2011/15/rebecca-zahau-woman-found-completely-naked-with-a-....html

Note: Max was just in a horrible accident, how is she FINE?

IMHO, a party was planned for Tuesday, but cancelled after the accident. If there was a party, would Rebecca be getting ready for bed at midnight? Personally, I don't think so. Just like I don't agree with the auto-asphyxiation theory that's bouncing around.

In the meantime, investigators are being tight lipped.

Interesting theory here: It's very rare for a woman to commit suicide naked, as modesty is a big factor. No note, no mental issues, no previous attempts, fine the night before, etc.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/coronado-mansion-death?redirected=true

MOO

Mel

tiredblondy
07-18-2011, 06:08 AM
as per the rumor Was the son sliding down the stairs or banister by planking?

tiredblondy
07-18-2011, 06:13 AM
I was reading the comments after some of the articles and there was a suggestion that this could be people trying to hurt Jonah for something in his buisness. Someone he's wronged...What do you think Mel?

Melanie
07-18-2011, 06:27 AM
as per the rumor Was the son sliding down the stairs or banister by planking?

Don't know. I would hate to think a 6 year old would try to plank on a banister. It's usually done on a flat surface, such as a stair. He may have lost his balance and rolled down the stairs. Or planking at the top of the balcony and rolled off (depending on his length and if the spacing is possible). It's hard to think what a 6 year old would do.

The article indicates Max fell down the stairs.

The 6-year-old son of a pharmaceutical company executive died Sunday, almost a week after falling down the stairs at his father's historic mansion

Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/7657641.html#ixzz1SS2bpPJj

I wish someone would come out and say why he fell (if witnessed). All this silence is driving me batty!

MOO

Mel

Melanie
07-18-2011, 06:35 AM
I was reading the comments after some of the articles and there was a suggestion that this could be people trying to hurt Jonah for something in his buisness. Someone he's wronged...What do you think Mel?

I was reading the paper this morning, and found that too. He's made some local enemies locally by agreeing not to modify the historic home (in lieu of lower property taxes) but did so anyway. I don't think that's a reason to kill anyone though.

Like many people with influence and money, Shacknai — a broad-shouldered, smooth-faced, square-jawed figure — has managed to collect both friends and enemies over the years. Within Arizona’s business scene, he is widely seen as a go-getter.

I hope LE is going to look into his past and also the current lawsuits against him to determine if there's anything hinky going on.

Definitely a made for TV movie if it wasn't so tragic.

More here:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/16/spreckels-mansion-owner-described-go-getter/

Mel

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 07:00 AM
Maybe I missed it, but where are you getting that she was a party girl or partied anymore than Jonah Shackna?

I have a difficult time seeing a 54 year old with a 6 year old kid, but not a 32 year old so I'm not sure why she couldn't be a mother figure - and, that is given my cringing about seeing wealthy men pairing up with women 20-30 years younger so often. One article said she quit her job to spend more time with him and his kids. I don't see a 32 year old as incapable of being a parent to kids those ages and for all we know, the kids real mothers had no qualms about it. Maybe they did have qualms also, but is there anyway it says they did?

Jonah Shackna may not have been divorced when he started seeing her but it appears she wasn't either and her ex spoke well of her to the press.

The first couple days of the story, she was described in media articles as a "party girl" so that's where I got that impression. My earlier comments were directed only at her - not stating if Jonah partied as much as her, or not.

And yes, a 32 year old is certainly old enough and capable of taking care of a child and being a mother figure. I was stating that the MOTHERS of Jonah's children would probably take offense at that. There is a difference between a mother and a father's girlfriend, in my opinion. A girlfriend, or babysitter, can tend to a child's needs when she sees them, but there is a lot more involved to mothering.

And finally, when my son is on his deathbed, my ex-husband's girlfriend is not welcome. That's just how I roll. I assume it was the same for Jonah's ex-wife (hence the reason Rebecca was not at the hospital - the original post I was responding to).

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 07:05 AM
Don't know. I would hate to think a 6 year old would try to plank on a banister. It's usually done on a flat surface, such as a stair. He may have lost his balance and rolled down the stairs. Or planking at the top of the balcony and rolled off (depending on his length and if the spacing is possible). It's hard to think what a 6 year old would do.

Planking totally makes sense to me. It is all the rage with the kids. I have an almost 6 year old and he wants to plank on everything! He learned it from his college age cousins on vacation this year. He has absolutely no ability to determine what is safe or not. I assume this could have been the same for Jonah's son. I would assume 6 years old is pretty old to think hanging from the chandeliers is ok (doing like a Diego thing with a rope) - he should know better, but planking - he could have thought that was a GREAT idea.

So sad regardless.

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 07:06 AM
I was reading the comments after some of the articles and there was a suggestion that this could be people trying to hurt Jonah for something in his buisness. Someone he's wronged...What do you think Mel?

But that would be pretty coincidental to have the kid's accident one day and her death the next?

colette
07-18-2011, 08:57 AM
Women don't usually leave themselves naked during a suicide but they might if they are trying to make their suicide look like a murder.

October
07-18-2011, 09:02 AM
According to this article, her hands and feet were bound with electrical wire:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/182014/20110718/max-shacknai-dies-mystery-over-death-of-rebecca-nalepa-deepens-pharmaceutical-jonah-girl-friend-fath.htm

Doesn't sound like a suicide to me.

IzzyBlanche
07-18-2011, 10:14 AM
Women don't usually leave themselves naked during a suicide but they might if they are trying to make their suicide look like a murder.


What would her motive be in trying to make her suicide look like murder? I don't get it.

IzzyBlanche
07-18-2011, 10:17 AM
According to this article, her hands and feet were bound with electrical wire:

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/182014/20110718/max-shacknai-dies-mystery-over-death-of-rebecca-nalepa-deepens-pharmaceutical-jonah-girl-friend-fath.htm

Doesn't sound like a suicide to me.

Now this article says there WAS a party Tuesday night. I wish the media could get their stories straight.

jjenny
07-18-2011, 10:31 AM
Women don't usually leave themselves naked during a suicide but they might if they are trying to make their suicide look like a murder.

For what purpose would she try to do that? The woman is naked with hands and feet bout-that looks like a murder to me.

Quester
07-18-2011, 10:32 AM
Could someone kindly snip and post pertinent quotes from the ibtimes.com article?

(I can't view it.)

Thanks!

Quester
07-18-2011, 11:06 AM
The boy might have been planking - interesting addition to this mystery! Thanks Melanie!

??? What if he was planking on the hall banister above the open staircase space, lost his balance, fell onto the chandelier, and shirt got hung-up on the chandelier blocking his trachea ???? Freak accident ???

However it happened, reports so far are of the boy's accidental death as SD homicide is not investigating the boy's death. They are only involved in the woman's death.

Hope they hold another presser today.

time
07-18-2011, 11:25 AM
The boy might have been planking - interesting addition to this mystery! Thanks Melanie!

??? What if he was planking on the hall banister above the open staircase space, lost his balance, fell onto the chandelier, and shirt got hung-up on the chandelier blocking his trachea ???? Freak accident ???

However it happened, reports so far are of the boy's accidental death as SD homicide is not investigating the boy's death. They are only involved in the woman's death.

Hope they hold another presser today.



Anyone else? The other thing that is just too weird is that they both died from some form of asphyxiation (even though I know it's possible her neck was broken or she died before she was hanged). With all due respect to Max and family.

wfgodot
07-18-2011, 11:29 AM
Daily Mail has a lengthy article today, a good catch-up for those just discovering the case (like me), with plenty of pictures and a somewhat regrettable tabloid headline:

Millionaire's six-year-old son dies after mysterious accident
at mansion where his father's lover was found hanging naked (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2015920/Jonah-Shacknais-son-Max-dies-accident-mansion-Rebecca-Nalepa-hanged.html)

time
07-18-2011, 11:31 AM
Could someone kindly snip and post pertinent quotes from the ibtimes.com article?

(I can't view it.)

Thanks!

Not sure what part you'd like but ...

Deepening the mystery surrounding her death, it emerged that a party had been held at the mansion on Tuesday, a day after Max's fatal fall. The following night Nalepa died in mysterious surroundings.

nursebeeme
07-18-2011, 11:38 AM
Police haven't zeroed in on any suspect so far, but the Shacknais and Dina Romano are being interrogated as witnesses.

Adding fuel to a murder theory, a friend of Nalepa told ABC news that the 32-year-old was a survivor and was unlikely to commit suicide, especially after baring her body.

There were also public statements defending Shacknai. According to Nalepa's brother-in-law, Shacknai was devoted to her while Nalepa treated Max as her own child.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/182014/20110718/max-shacknai-dies-mystery-over-death-of-rebecca-nalepa-deepens-pharmaceutical-jonah-girl-friend-fath.htm

time
07-18-2011, 11:41 AM
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/national_world&id=8256237

On Wednesday, officials said Shacknai's 32-year-old girlfriend, Rebecca Nalepa, was found dead hanging nude from a balcony at the mansion, her hands and feet bound. Shacknai's brother, Adam, who was staying in the mansion guesthouse, called to report Nalepa appeared to be dead, police said. Jonah Shacknai was not at home.

I thought Rebecca was actually still alive when they arrived? I guess the 911 tape could be informative.

nursebeeme
07-18-2011, 11:42 AM
Sheriff's Capt. Tim Curran said Adam and Jonah Shacknai were
only witnesses, not "persons of interest," and that Zahau's death did not
appear related to Max's death.

Coroner's investigators refused to talk about how Shacknai's girlfriend
died, or even say whether it was thought to be a suicide, a homicide or an
accident.

http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story/Coronado-Mansion-Death-Memorial/9LwNslaEP0KU7lf24R8FyA.cspx


what I put in red is the most strange to me~!!!!

nursebeeme
07-18-2011, 11:45 AM
"Because of the unique and bizarre circumstances of this incident, it has yet to be determined if this will become a criminal matter or will remain as a death investigation," Curran told news crews Thursday during a briefing at sheriff's headquarters in Kearny Mesa.
Despite the many unknowns in the lurid case, authorities said they were confident the woman's death was "an isolated incident" -- not the act of an unidentified killer who remained at large.
Zahau had been staying in the mansion with Jonah Shacknai, whose brother was a guest in one of the smaller residences on the grounds. The latter apparently was the only other person at the estate with the woman at the time of her death, Curran said.

http://www.10news.com/news/28566086/detail.html

nursebeeme
07-18-2011, 11:47 AM
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/coronado-mansion-death

new article... shows picture of staircase. It is carpeted fwiw

time
07-18-2011, 11:47 AM
Daily Mail has a lengthy article today, a good catch-up for those just discovering the case (like me), with plenty of pictures and a somewhat regrettable tabloid headline:

Millionaire's six-year-old son dies after mysterious accident
at mansion where his father's lover was found hanging naked (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2015920/Jonah-Shacknais-son-Max-dies-accident-mansion-Rebecca-Nalepa-hanged.html)

Here is the quote on her still being alive when they arrived ..

Firefighters tried to revive Miss Nalepa, who they described as being 'in distress', but she was later pronounced dead at the scene.

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 11:48 AM
Party Tuesday or NO party? Gah!

There are a lot of steps in my house. The second floor is actually open floor plan, so the entire upstairs, you can see down to the first floor from anywhere up there, meaning that one could fall down the stairs or from anywhere upstairs into to the first level of the house (hard wood floors), BUT by the time my child was 6, he knew how to not fall off the second level and how to go up and down the stairs safely, so I don't know how much supervision a 6 year old really needs in a house he's familiar with, stairs or not.

The only thing i have to remind my kids (and myself) of is NO SOCKS on the wood stairs! You WILL slip and bust your a$@ and I think we all have at some point.
About the rumored planking...he seems a little young, but if he watches MTV or has friends with older siblings, he definitely could know about planking.

nursebeeme
07-18-2011, 11:49 AM
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Pharma-Execs-Son-6-Dies-After-Fall-125728973.html

new article... says calls yesterday to homicide dets were not returned

Quester
07-18-2011, 11:49 AM
Anyone else think the other thing that is just too weird is that they both died from some form of asphyxiation (even though I know it's possible her neck was broken or she died before she was hanged). With all due respect to Max and family.

Yes, coincidence or not a coincidence of both deaths possibly by asphyxiation has had my active imagination wandering.

Wonder what her religious beliefs were?

Death of the boy under her care could be devastating to her relationship with the boy's father, regardless of fault/neglect/bad luck/etc. Could lead her to suicide. [Although so strange that her sister mentioned her being normal on the phone Tues evening given the circumstances of the boy's devastating accident and likely knowledge of no brain activity at that time.] Could also cause someone to blame her and exact revenge.

Sounds like the plot of an interesting murder mystery.

nursebeeme
07-18-2011, 11:51 AM
Party Tuesday or NO party? Gah!

There are a lot of steps in my house. The second floor is actually open floor plan, so the entire upstairs, you can see down to the first floor from anywhere up there, meaning that one could fall down the stairs or from anywhere upstairs into to the first level of the house (hard wood floors), BUT by the time my child was 6, he knew how to not fall off the second level and how to go up and down the stairs safely, so I don't know how much supervision a 6 year old really needs in a house he's familiar with, stairs or not.

The only thing i have to remind my kids (and myself) of is NO SOCKS on the wood stairs! You WILL slip and bust your a$@ and I think we all have at some point.
About the rumored planking...he seems a little young, but if he watches MTV or has friends with older siblings, he definitely could know about planking.


I posted a link with a picture of the stairs upstream.. they are carpeted and have a bend in them...

now I am even more suspicious of this whole thing including the stairs thing

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 11:54 AM
I want to know what else was found when the boy was found. Once my brother and I took a ride down our carpeted stairs on a boogie board. Yeah, I grew up in San Diego, so we had boogie boards handy!

nursebeeme
07-18-2011, 11:57 AM
Yes, coincidence or not a coincidence of both deaths possibly by asphyxiation has had my active imagination wandering.

Wonder what her religious beliefs were?

Death of the boy under her care could be devastating to her relationship with the boy's father, regardless of fault/neglect/bad luck/etc. Could lead her to suicide. [Although so strange that her sister mentioned her being normal on the phone Tues evening given the circumstances of the boy's devastating accident and likely knowledge of no brain activity at that time.] Could also cause someone to blame her and exact revenge.

Sound like the plot of an interesting murder mystery.

your post perplexed me! (what I bolded)... I noted she is burmese from some articles... I tried to google burmese suicide methods and couldn't find much but did find an interesting page on the topic concerning japan... hanging is listed as a common method and also further in the page it states that suicide is tolerated and considered a "morally responsible action"

interesting to say the least...

Suicide in Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:David_-_The_Death_of_Socrates_crop.jpg" class="image"><img alt="David - The Death of Socrates crop.jpg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/David_-_The_Death_of_Socrates_crop.jpg/70px-David_-_The_Death_of_Socrates_crop.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/e/ef/David_-_The_Death_of_Socrates_crop.jpg/70px-David_-_The_Death_of_Socrates_crop.jpg

time
07-18-2011, 11:59 AM
Sheriff's Capt. Tim Curran said Adam and Jonah Shacknai were
only witnesses, not "persons of interest," and that Zahau's death did not
appear related to Max's death.

Coroner's investigators refused to talk about how Shacknai's girlfriend
died, or even say whether it was thought to be a suicide, a homicide or an
accident.

http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/story/Coronado-Mansion-Death-Memorial/9LwNslaEP0KU7lf24R8FyA.cspx


what I put in red is the most strange to me~!!!!

Hmmm ... other articles have also said the Sheriff's office is NOT investigating Max's death because they were not asked to get involved.

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 11:59 AM
I posted a link with a picture of the stairs upstream.. they are carpeted and have a bend in them...

now I am even more suspicious of this whole thing including the stairs thing

Yeah seeing the stairs, I get a bad feeling. I get the feeling (no real basis) that no one else was responsible for the boy's death, but something happened on those stairs that was not supposed to happen. I can't see a fall down either relatively short part of those stairs being fatal, especially to a child unless there was some misuse of the stairs or something propelling him.

I mean, freaky things happen and people die from minor accidents, so who knows, but something is "off" here.

nursebeeme
07-18-2011, 12:07 PM
Hmmm ... other articles have also said the Sheriff's office is NOT investigating Max's death because they were not asked to get involved.

http://law.onecle.com/california/government/27491.html

here is the law for california...

it is ultimately up to the coroner since his death was attended (in the hospital setting)..

as a nurse I was curious what the CA laws were. Will not be surprised at all if there is an autopsy/investigation:twocents:

time
07-18-2011, 12:11 PM
The first couple days of the story, she was described in media articles as a "party girl" so that's where I got that impression. My earlier comments were directed only at her - not stating if Jonah partied as much as her, or not.

And yes, a 32 year old is certainly old enough and capable of taking care of a child and being a mother figure. I was stating that the MOTHERS of Jonah's children would probably take offense at that. There is a difference between a mother and a father's girlfriend, in my opinion. A girlfriend, or babysitter, can tend to a child's needs when she sees them, but there is a lot more involved to mothering.

And finally, when my son is on his deathbed, my ex-husband's girlfriend is not welcome. That's just how I roll. I assume it was the same for Jonah's ex-wife (hence the reason Rebecca was not at the hospital - the original post I was responding to).


I tend to see this differently and think you are presenting it in stark terms. If another human being had spent a lot of time with my children/child and had some role in their care, of course, I would think they should come visit if they were in the hospital. That's different than having them replace me or being there the entire time my child was on his death bed. She wasn't just a babysitter nor some insignificant person in the father's life and I presume in the child's life.

This was also part of his extended family... with a couple of divorces and children by different marriages, Max's life was probably full of lots of people who don't quite match the typical family unit (albeit divorced). He had two step sisters also, one of which appears to have been staying at the house earlier in the day he fell. Was dad at the house then?

wfgodot
07-18-2011, 12:11 PM
When googling info on Burma, don't forget to include "Myanmar" in search terms.

In 1989 the wretched junta that took military control changed the name.

time
07-18-2011, 12:23 PM
You'd think there would be security cameras in a mansion like that?

nursebeeme
07-18-2011, 12:31 PM
Reports have emerged of a "loud party" at the mansion on Tuesday night, when Max would have been in critical condition at the hospital - apparently with both his parents at his bedside around the clock.

Unless Nalepa was not a guest of the party, this information potentially contradicts a statement made by Rebecca's sister.

Mary Zahau-Loehner spoke to ABC News about her sister Rebecca's state of mind before the grisly discovery, saying that when the sisters spoke on Tuesday night, things with Rebecca did not seem out of the ordinary.

"She was normal, fine, just getting ready to go to bed," Zahau-Loehner said.

A San Diego kennel owner who spoke to Nalepa on Tuesday said the woman was shaken by the recent events at her home.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/182280/20110718/jonah-shacknai-rebecca-nalepa-max-shacknai-adam-shacknai-spreckels-mansion-medecis-suicide-homicide-.htm

Quester
07-18-2011, 12:33 PM
Given: Tue evening normal phone call (per Rebecca’s sister) and Wed am 911 call (by Adam)

Will be interesting to know about phone calls, if any, between Jonah, Dina, Rebecca and Adam between the above known phone calls.

Also, will be interesting to know what medical update about the boy’s status was given to the parents between the hours of the known phone calls.

@nursebeeme: Hypothetically, if a boy were found not breathing, no pulse, revived, taken to hospital, likely brain dead, typically how would this play out in the hospital and over how many days? TIA

time
07-18-2011, 12:33 PM
Some different comments here not sure if they are all supported by fact..

http://news.lalate.com/category/adam-shacknai/

Police were quick to state that Max’s injury was unrelated to the death of Nalepa. But at the time of that statement to news, investigators had yet to even determine if she died of a homicide or a suicide.

Nalepa’s family spoke to her hours before her death. On Tuesday before going to bed, Nalepa’s sister phoned her. She said that Rebecca was completely normal. By breakfast, Rebecca was dead, face down, in the outside courtyard’s lawn, unclothed, her feet and arms bounded behind her back.

What happened in just a matter of a few hours?

...Adam (photo above) was staying in the guest home. He was the only person in the residence at the time of Nalepa’s death.

His call reported that Nalepa was hanging from a balcony. But how was that possible? Her wrists were bound behind her; her feet were bound behind as well. In fact, reports claimed there were no indications of a spot that could support a hanging.

... When news of the story broke, local San Diego news choppers flew over the Spreckels mansion. They were able to photograph Nalepa dead outside, as investigators found her. She wasn’t hanging. She was face down, unclothed, in the outside courtyard, still bound. Adam said he had cut her from the hanging. The courtyard, however, is not directly below any balcony.

...Nalepa was found near a table. That outside courtyard table was removed from the residence on Friday pursuant to a search warrant.

I saw pics of a table also in the courtyard... if this is the broken table, then seems she fell on it, not that she stood on it to jump off the balcony.

I'm not sure about the other claims, but interesting.

nursebeeme
07-18-2011, 12:47 PM
Given: Tue evening normal phone call (per Rebecca’s sister) and Wed am 911 call (by Adam)

Will be interesting to know about phone calls, if any, between Jonah, Dina, Rebecca and Adam between the above known phone calls.

Also, will be interesting to know what medical update about the boy’s status was given to the parents between the hours of the known phone calls.

@nursebeeme: Hypothetically, if a boy were found not breathing, no pulse, revived, taken to hospital, likely brain dead, typically how would this play out in the hospital and over how many days? TIA

(caveat: yes I am a verified nurse at websleuths ;-)

well, it depends on the extent of the injury. Hypothetically speaking they were obviously able to revive his heart and get him on a ventilator. Sounds to me, hypothetically speaking, that there was no brain activity for those five days and he was most likely extubated (taken off life support)..and most likely head injury prevented him from breathing on his own (which is brain stem.. would support a subdural hematoma or some sort of trauma to the brain hypothetically)

he could also hypothetically have arrested again and was unrevivable.. hard to tell either way but considering it was a fall down the stairs and that he was reportedly found without a pulse and not breathing it supports either head injury or secondary brain injury due to hypoxia (lack of oxygen) in the period of time between when he was unresponsive and cpr started/intubated.
:twocents::twocents::twocents:


eta: the period of time that you asked about: it varies... I am an ICU nurse and I have seen this sort of thing (head injuries) play out over varying lengths if there is no brain activity. Depends on the exact injury, it's extent, and the individual patient's response to treatment

Quester
07-18-2011, 01:12 PM
(caveat: yes I am a verified nurse at websleuths ;-)

well, it depends on the extent of the injury. Hypothetically speaking they were obviously able to revive his heart and get him on a ventilator. Sounds to me, hypothetically speaking, that there was no brain activity for those five days and he was most likely extubated (taken off life support)..and most likely head injury prevented him from breathing on his own (which is brain stem.. would support a subdural hematoma or some sort of trauma to the brain hypothetically)

he could also hypothetically have arrested again and was unrevivable.. hard to tell either way but considering it was a fall down the stairs and that he was reportedly found without a pulse and not breathing it supports either head injury or secondary brain injury due to hypoxia (lack of oxygen) in the period of time between when he was unresponsive and cpr started/intubated.
:twocents::twocents::twocents:


eta: the period of time that you asked about: it varies... I am an ICU nurse and I have seen this sort of thing (head injuries) play out over varying lengths if there is no brain activity. Depends on the exact injury, it's extent, and the individual patient's response to treatment

Thank you!!

It was also reported that an MRI was done on the boy on Wed afternoon - two full days after the devastating accident. What might have been the purpose?

sargenet
07-18-2011, 01:27 PM
I saw pics of a table also in the courtyard... if this is the broken table, then seems she fell on it, not that she stood on it to jump off the balcony.

I'm not sure about the other claims, but interesting.

Could it be possible that the brother pulled the table over to cut her down? The table was placed over a walkway. If you look up above the table there is a "juliet" type balcony. I think that is what it is called. Looks like doors that open to look out at the courtyard but there is railing in front. No place to "step out"..just look out.

She could have been hanging from that railing/balcony and he grabbed the table quick to get her down....

TGIRecovered
07-18-2011, 01:41 PM
Could it be possible that the brother pulled the table over to cut her down? The table was placed over a walkway. If you look up above the table there is a "juliet" type balcony. I think that is what it is called. Looks like doors that open to look out at the courtyard but there is railing in front. No place to "step out"..just look out.

She could have been hanging from that railing/balcony and he grabbed the table quick to get her down....

Can someone give me a link to the pic being discussed? i haven't seen this pic in the articles I've read. Thank you!

sargenet
07-18-2011, 01:44 PM
http://www.dndb.info/featured18-1-2.htm

I found this photo on a website that talked about a renovation in the 80's. In the top right corner is a balcony.. I think I saw this balcony in the news coverage and it had the table below it...which made me think that either the brother pulled the table under to cut her down or someone else used it to hang her....

sargenet
07-18-2011, 01:50 PM
Can someone give me a link to the pic being discussed? i haven't seen this pic in the articles I've read. Thank you!

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/photo_gallery/kswb-photos-nude-woman-found-dead-at-mansion-20110715,0,6503880.photogallery

This is where I saw the table near the balcony...I also just posted a closer photo from the courtyard taken in the 80s..

almino
07-18-2011, 01:57 PM
My thoughts. First, I don't see how 2 tragic events in the same week, in the same home are unrelated. The death of R Nalepah seems to be very intimate and shameful as though she was being punished. I wouldn't think this is random, but that it is revenge. Which leads me to think perhaps she played a part in the son's death (the whole staircase is strange, I can't imagine ability to get injured or roll fast on that staircase unless he fell off the bannister or he rolled and his head was between the bannisters causing him to choke.)

That said, why couldn't JS be involved. He could have arranged her death ealier/done something and called his brother to position her/call police, and be back at the hospital. Nothing about her death says suicide IMO.

I know reports say she loved the children as her own, but in my thinking she is much younger and her lifestyle took a huge step forward by being with JS. Any of his kids are heirs to his $$. I say this without really knowing anything about her or her motivations. But I can't help but think his money was quite a motivator for her. Her sister said she sounded happy/normal on the phone the night before she died.

Then the brother. Why is he staying there? Could he be involved in either event? He was supposed to be checking on a barge somewhere I thought. I believe he is at minimal involved in the cover up of RN's death. It doesn't really sound like she was even hanging, simply made to look like that happened. If he wasn't part of the cover up, he would have left her hanging as evidence for the police. Unless he thought her to be alive still and cut the cord.

Others with possible motivations? Her exhusand, any of JS's former wives?

Jade
07-18-2011, 02:07 PM
From the Coronado Patch article [thank you Time]:


Ted Greenberg was one of the last people to see Rebecca Nalepa alive.

She had called his kennel, Camp Diggity Dogs, to pick up Ocean, the family’s 14-month-old Weimaraner the afternoon following the Monday accident that left her boyfriend's son with serious injuries.

“She asked us to come get the dog, because she wanted to get to the hospital to see her child,” Greenberg said. “I understand it’s (her boyfriend's) son, but I guess she thought of him as hers.”

“She called about 4:40 pm,” he said. “She told me about the accident and said that her daughter was also injured.”

Nalepa wanted him to take the dog right away, but that proved impossible. “We were really busy,” Greenberg said. “I asked her if she could bring the dog in, but she said she didn’t have time, that she had to get to the hospital.”

The move to the kennel was also delayed because Ocean’s vaccinations weren’t up-to-date. Greenberg couldn't take the dog to the veterinarian for Nalepa until Tuesday

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/local-kennel-owner-saw-spreckels-victim-less-than-24-hours-before-her-death

So she did plan to go to the hospital.

And Max’s half sister [?] was injured as well?

The staircase in the pictures looks safe enough even if one fell from the chandelier it isn’t that high and looks thickly carpeted.
Do we know that is the staircase in question?

Older mansions often have a back staircase used by the staff of the house that may be steeper or not carpeted but that doesn’t fit with chandelier information.

all imo

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 02:14 PM
And Max’s half sister [?] was injured as well?

Where did you read this?

nursebeeme
07-18-2011, 02:19 PM
Where did you read this?

wow... this is strange isn't it???

“She called about 4:40 pm,” he said. “She told me about the accident and said that her daughter was also injured.”
http://coronado.patch.com/articles/local-kennel-owner-saw-spreckels-victim-less-than-24-hours-before-her-death

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 02:21 PM
wow... this is strange isn't it???

“She called about 4:40 pm,” he said. “She told me about the accident and said that her daughter was also injured.”
http://coronado.patch.com/articles/local-kennel-owner-saw-spreckels-victim-less-than-24-hours-before-her-death

Oh this is ****ing bizarre. Maybe sheds some light. Was she participating in the activity that caused the accident, therefore really putting Rebecca in an even MORE responsible position for the accident in her own mind? So. Strange.

Quester
07-18-2011, 02:24 PM
... snipped ...

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/local-kennel-owner-saw-spreckels-victim-less-than-24-hours-before-her-death

And Max’s half sister [?] was injured as well?


Wow! Early reports were that the half sister was at the house Monday morning and gone from the house (she flew back to her home in South Carolina, I think it was) by the time paramedics showed up to treat the boy.

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 02:27 PM
I understand that these people have money, but how do you get the daughter out of the house and on a plane to SC that quickly? And why? Can someone remind me how old she is? I know that Jonah has a 14 year old daughter, so I assume they're talking about her and not Rebecca's daughter.

Silkprint
07-18-2011, 02:28 PM
Haven't read the thread yet as I just found out about all this !
Best place to get the poop is right here .
She was beautiful
and that poor little boy ..how adorable !!!
Okay ..going to read .

nursebeeme
07-18-2011, 02:28 PM
On Saturday, multiple media outlets quoted a Facebook message posted by Max's older sister, indicating that her brother had died.

"RIP Maxie. We'll miss your sweet smile and kind heart more than you'll ever know. I'll love you forever," San Diego's Channel 8 news reported the message read.
http://m.ibtimes.com/jonah-shacknai-rebecca-nalepa-rebecca-zahau-max-shacknia-adam-shackai-spreckels-mansion-dead-brain-d-181791.html


well.... it seems there IS a sister (after some digging around) (((we cannot link to minor's names, social media, etc))

nursebeeme
07-18-2011, 02:29 PM
wow... if the daughter wasn't even there why would she say she was injured as well to the kennel owner? maybe to get him there quicker???

it is still downright strange..

the whole kit and kaboodle!

Quester
07-18-2011, 02:37 PM
I understand that these people have money, but how do you get the daughter out of the house and on a plane to SC that quickly? And why? Can someone remind me how old she is? I know that Jonah has a 14 year old daughter, so I assume they're talking about her and not Rebecca's daughter.

I'm going on the same assumption - Jonah's 14 year old daughter from 1st wife who was vacationing in Coronado.

Haven't heard of Rebecca having children.

wfgodot
07-18-2011, 02:43 PM
it is still downright strange..

the whole kit and kaboodle!

Yep, hink-o-meter off the charts regarding this sad mess.

Melanie
07-18-2011, 02:46 PM
Daily Mail has a lengthy article today, a good catch-up for those just discovering the case (like me), with plenty of pictures and a somewhat regrettable tabloid headline:

Millionaire's six-year-old son dies after mysterious accident
at mansion where his father's lover was found hanging naked (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2015920/Jonah-Shacknais-son-Max-dies-accident-mansion-Rebecca-Nalepa-hanged.html)

Thanks for the article. I'm still not convinced there was a party, as I've yet to hear a single person from this party come forward, nor is anyone saying there were a bunch of cars in the driveway, etc. I think the brother (who was there) could clear this one up pretty quickly. Not to mention there would be remenants of a party the morning after (or on the day she died - Wednesday). The sister is also saying that she called her on Tuesday night and she was getting ready for bed at midnight. I'll leave that party statement open ended right now.


This is quite telling, and indicates a non-suicide to me: She met what officers described as a 'very violent and very suspicious end' at the mansion.

I'm really not sure why they brought up the 1K shoplifting conviction. I don't see a connection at all.

To see both victims die under very suspicious circumstances bothers me. Yes, Max may have fallen down the stairs, but he could have been pushed as well. I just don't know. And I certainly don't think Rebecca comitted suicide - this gal was murdered IMHO.

MOO

Mel

SleuthyMama
07-18-2011, 02:52 PM
This story is strange and seems to be getting stranger by the moment.

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 02:54 PM
So many tv show scenarios going through my head now. I don't think I can share any of them because they are figments of my imagination, but so many different scenarios that I can think of.

Usually I try to think of the most obvious/plausible, but there is nothing obvious or plausible about any of it.

Melanie
07-18-2011, 03:02 PM
Hmmm ... other articles have also said the Sheriff's office is NOT investigating Max's death because they were not asked to get involved.

I get that impression to. La de da, he fell down the stairs, it was an accident. It's a big house, so I don't want to assume he fell down the stairs shown in the picure - but little Max is dead! Why isn't LE investigating this? I remember back to the case of Kathleen Peterson and wonder if he fell down anoher staircase, was pushed down a staircase, was planking, or even possibly surfing down the stairs (as one poster suggested). These are all possible scenarios. Am I suprised that LE is giving up on him so quick? Not really given the town and politics. Public perception in Coronado is so great, I wouldn't be suprised if LE listed both deaths as accidents so they don't lose their precious tourist attraction, or taint the towns pristeen image (and keep that 2 murders in 10 years record intact).

Now had this happened in El Cajon, or Logan Heights - it would be handled completely different. The information would be flowing like an open book (as in David Westerfield). Again, I'm afraid the money, politics, and the town, are keeping us from knowing what's really going on.

MOO

Mel

anyoldtime48
07-18-2011, 03:09 PM
Reports have emerged of a "loud party" at the mansion on Tuesday night, when Max would have been in critical condition at the hospital - apparently with both his parents at his bedside around the clock.

Unless Nalepa was not a guest of the party, this information potentially contradicts a statement made by Rebecca's sister.

Mary Zahau-Loehner spoke to ABC News about her sister Rebecca's state of mind before the grisly discovery, saying that when the sisters spoke on Tuesday night, things with Rebecca did not seem out of the ordinary.

"She was normal, fine, just getting ready to go to bed," Zahau-Loehner said.

A San Diego kennel owner who spoke to Nalepa on Tuesday said the woman was shaken by the recent events at her home.

http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/182280/20110718/jonah-shacknai-rebecca-nalepa-max-shacknai-adam-shacknai-spreckels-mansion-medecis-suicide-homicide-.htm

What disturbs me as much as that article itself if the "Popular Multimedia" link below it: "Planking is Passe But Owling is Really Trendy Now" with photo of a girl perched on what appears to be a stairwell railing.

SleuthyMama
07-18-2011, 03:11 PM
@Melanie-any indication of where Jonah's kids lived? As in did they all live mostly full time with him? Or with their respective moms and came to visit Jonah regularly?

time
07-18-2011, 03:13 PM
I understand that these people have money, but how do you get the daughter out of the house and on a plane to SC that quickly? And why? Can someone remind me how old she is? I know that Jonah has a 14 year old daughter, so I assume they're talking about her and not Rebecca's daughter.

I mistakenly referred to the 14 year old as his step sister earlier, but I'm pretty sure it was the 14 year old that was in the house that day.

Yeah, why would they send her to SC, especially if she were a witness to what had happened (and if she was also injured)?

Another theory might be that they don't want people to know what was going on and with the 14 year old gone, Rebecca was the only other person who knew?

I also find it weird that if they do not suspect foul play in Max's death, why are there no more detailed reports of what statement Rebecca gave a to police and so on. (or maybe someone has found more on this?)

Melanie
07-18-2011, 03:14 PM
On Saturday, multiple media outlets quoted a Facebook message posted by Max's older sister, indicating that her brother had died.

"RIP Maxie. We'll miss your sweet smile and kind heart more than you'll ever know. I'll love you forever," San Diego's Channel 8 news reported the message read.
http://m.ibtimes.com/jonah-shacknai-rebecca-nalepa-rebecca-zahau-max-shacknia-adam-shackai-spreckels-mansion-dead-brain-d-181791.html


well.... it seems there IS a sister (after some digging around) (((we cannot link to minor's names, social media, etc))

Right - there are two other children aged 13 and 14. G. Shacknai lived in Arizona with her mom, and I assume the other teen did as well. If you dig into FB you can find where she was running for sophomore class vice president in a school in Phoenix, AZ. Not sure if I can say the name of the school here.

Interesting, I finally found out when Rebecca was found.

Adam Shacknai, the brother of homeowner Jonah Shacknai, discovered the victim's body and called 911 around 6:48 a.m. Wednesday and reported that a woman, who was staying at the mansion, was in distress, according to deputies.

So if the sister talked to her at midnight - what on earth happened between midnight and 6:48 AM? That's the million dollar question.

MOO

Mel

time
07-18-2011, 03:18 PM
Wow! Early reports were that the half sister was at the house Monday morning and gone from the house (she flew back to her home in South Carolina, I think it was) by the time paramedics showed up to treat the boy.

Your post made me think ... if this is true, then either she was wisked out of there really fast or someone delayed calling for help? I guess it's possible she was immediately sent out to someone elses house and then later flew back to SC.

Melanie
07-18-2011, 03:32 PM
@Melanie-any indication of where Jonah's kids lived? As in did they all live mostly full time with him? Or with their respective moms and came to visit Jonah regularly?

Jonah's 2 teens were from his first marriage, and lived in Phoenix, Az. G. Shaknai goes to school in Phoenix, AZ.

His second wife, Max's mother, Dina, reportedly lives a short distance from the mansion.

Shacknai has two other children from a previous marriage to Kimberly James, a pharmaceuticals sales representative for rival firm Johnson & Johnson.

The couple married in April 1993 in Bel Air, California, before filing for divorce in 1999.

She later told a psychologist that on their honeymoon he asked her if she thought the marriage was a mistake.

Family Court records show the couple reached a joint-custody agreement in 2001 for two children: a 14-year-old girl and a 13-year-old boy.

Shacknai later married Dina Romano, the boy's mother, and the couple divorced in 2008.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2015920/Rebecca-Nalepa-hanged-Jonah-Shacknais-mansion-son-Max-6-dies.html

I don't have any info as to how often the 2 eldest children visited San Diego.

Thanks,

Mel.

Melanie
07-18-2011, 03:42 PM
Your post made me think ... if this is true, then either she was wisked out of there really fast or someone delayed calling for help? I guess it's possible she was immediately sent out to someone elses house and then later flew back to SC.

Is there a link somewhere? Every article I've read indicates the only person at home was the girlfriend and the brother? Or are we talking about Max's accident?

I have no idea why the daughter would go to SC, as her base was in Phoenix, AZ. But wealthy people do travel all over - so who knows.

This gets more mysterious by the minute.

Mel

time
07-18-2011, 03:44 PM
On Saturday, multiple media outlets quoted a Facebook message posted by Max's older sister, indicating that her brother had died.

"RIP Maxie. We'll miss your sweet smile and kind heart more than you'll ever know. I'll love you forever," San Diego's Channel 8 news reported the message read.
http://m.ibtimes.com/jonah-shacknai-rebecca-nalepa-rebecca-zahau-max-shacknia-adam-shackai-spreckels-mansion-dead-brain-d-181791.html


well.... it seems there IS a sister (after some digging around) (((we cannot link to minor's names, social media, etc))

I guess I can't post this link ... it's AZ Central Newspaper, but it's on FB. Some locals are posting on this article:

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2011/07/17/20110717arizona-shacknai-coronado-child-dies-from-injuries-0717.html

Comments on this article, not direct quotes, claim that

... Adam Shacknai would not say where his brother Jonah was at the time of the death. (from a San Diego news report)

.. Dina Shacknai was in the home when Max fell down the stairs.

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 03:44 PM
Another theory might be that they don't want people to know what was going on and with the 14 year old gone, Rebecca was the only other person who knew?

This is actually my main theory. Either the 14 year old was passively involved (not assuming wrongdoing) OR was a witness. If she's not being interviewed because she's out of the state or they won't allow it, they're all good unless Rebecca was going to tell what she knew or somehow implicate the girl either as part of the accident or witness to it. I wonder if Rebecca was shut up to protect the girl. JMO I have no idea.

anyoldtime48
07-18-2011, 04:10 PM
Full LE press conference from Wed July 13. For not wanting to say a lot, they actually ponied up a fair amount of info. Including they had no credible info about a party haven taken place the night before as of the time they had held the presser.

Also at around 13:30, the "Chief" talks about the call to the house for Max's fall. He states a child had fallen "from the stairs" not "down" stairs. As of that presser, they had no indication this was anything other than a tragic accident.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/coronado-mansion-death?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=6051226&redirected=true

I'm sure curious about the timing and circumstances that brought JS's younger brother out from Memphis, if other than the fact his nephew was in the hospital on life support.

snipped:
"AS lives in an apartment in Midtown Memphis. His leasing agent neighbor, Robert Sanders, said he last saw him a few days ago.

"He said that he was going to have to go back out on the tugboat company he works for," said Sanders.

Instead, AS ended up in San Diego in a guest house in his brother's mansion.

http://www.wmctv.com/story/15091608/memphian-discovers-body-in-brothers-san-diego-mansion

And now there is a local well-known defense attorney showing up at the mansion, and claiming to not being hired by JS. Unfortunately, there are not many people left standing who could have hired said attorney.

snipped:
Wednesday evening, former District Attorney and current defense attorney Paul Pfingst showed up at the crime scene. Pfingst confirmed to News 8 that he had been hired to represent someone connected with this case, although he would not specify who his client is.

"I'm not Jonah's lawyer. I've never spoke with him. As far as I know he's not a suspect of any type," Pfingst said in a statement.

On Monday morning, emergency crews were called to the home after six-year-old Max Shacknai was injured there, police said. The boy is the son of Jonah Shacknai and his ex-wife Dina and he may have fallen down a flight of stairs.

The boy was found unconscious, without a pulse and not breathing, Coronado Police Chief Lou Scanlon told reporters. Children's Hospital would not confirm the boy's identity, but neighbors said Wednesday that the boy was in a medically-induced coma.

According to the six-year-old boy's grandmother, quoted in The Arizona Republic, Shacknai's girlfriend was at home with the boy when he was injured.

"There is nothing to indicate that those two incidents are connected," Curran said.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/family-of-woman-found-dead-at-coronado-mansion-expected-to-speak?clienttype=printable&redirected=true

JoeFromLB
07-18-2011, 04:12 PM
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/18/death-of-shacknai-boy-sparks-investigation/

Death of Shacknai boy sparks investigation

July 18, 2011

CORONADO — Law enforcement officials on Monday said they have launched an investigation into the death of 6-year-old Max Shacknai, who died over the weekend from a recent fall at the same Coronado mansion where a woman's body was found hanging.

JoeFromLB
07-18-2011, 04:21 PM
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/15/woman-mansion-mystery-devoted-tycoon-boyfriend/

Woman in mansion mystery devoted to tycoon boyfriend

July 15, 2011

CORONADO — The Arizona woman who was found hanging from the balcony of her boyfriend’s historic Coronado oceanfront mansion was described by her former employer Friday as a committed professional and “full of life.”

Rebecca M. Zahau, 32, worked at Horizon Eye Specialists & Lasik Center in north Phoenix as a certified ophthalmic technician, aiding doctors in Lasik and cataract surgeries, said company CEO Michael J. Trier.

“We are saddened and troubled by the circumstances of her death,” Trier said. “It is our hope that justice can be served for Rebecca.”

Zahau, who began working there in April 2008, left the job in December to devote more time to her boyfriend, Jonah Shacknai, founder of Medicis Pharmaceuticals Corp., and his three children from previous marriages.

“She was very good with our patients. She was very committed for several years to her career,” he said. “She was a personality very much full of life.”

Melanie
07-18-2011, 04:31 PM
Grrr...Paul Pfingst. Don't like him. He rec'd a lot of bullets in the Chelsea King/John Gardner case. He felt no need to track John Gardner. Look what happened.

"For example, someone who is 20 years old and had consensual sex with a 17-year-old is registered as a sex offender. In 15 years, should that person be followed by law enforcement? I think not," he said.

Now he's showing up in this case?

He's just another Jose Baez in San Diego -- with a little more experience!

In the few years since losing a bitter election for a third term as the county's top law enforcer, Pfingst has become one of the best-known local criminal defense lawyers, with a calendar full of high-profile cases.

He sees the dollars in this case, and actually showed up at the home on the NIGHT when Rebecca died. This has ICK written all over it. He was turned away!!

Oh, don't get me started on Paul Pfingst. But I bet the San Diegan's know where I stand.

Mel

Quester
07-18-2011, 04:35 PM
Autopsy to Be Conducted on Jonah Shacknai's Son

Police say that is routine, though they also will take a closer look at the death of the 6-year-old boy.

Coronado police are looking more closely at the July 11 fall that led to the death ...

The examination will be Monday or Tuesday ...

Corbin also offered more details of the 911 call ...

A 13-year-old girl called for help following the boy's fall. The teen, Zahau and [the boy] were the only ones in the residence at the time.

[spoksperson] Corbin warned that the police continue to approach the boy's July 11 fall as an accident, but are taking another look because of Zahau's death.

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/autopsy-to-be-conducted-on-jonah-shacknais-son

Invisible
07-18-2011, 04:44 PM
So if the sister talked to her at midnight - what on earth happened between midnight and 6:48 AM? That's the million dollar question.

MOO

Mel

Does anyone think it is strange that there was a midnight phone call? I never call anyone after 8 p.m., but that is just me.

MsFacetious
07-18-2011, 04:51 PM
Authorities would not say exactly how the two incidents may be connected, but said the boy's reported accident needs to be looked at in light of the death of Rebecca M. Zahau, 32.

Investigators believe Zahau's death was either a homicide or a suicide, Frank said.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/18/death-of-shacknai-boy-sparks-investigation/

Right - there are two other children aged 13 and 14. G. Shacknai lived in Arizona with her mom, and I assume the other teen did as well. If you dig into FB you can find where she was running for sophomore class vice president in a school in Phoenix, AZ. Not sure if I can say the name of the school here.

Interesting, I finally found out when Rebecca was found.

Adam Shacknai, the brother of homeowner Jonah Shacknai, discovered the victim's body and called 911 around 6:48 a.m. Wednesday and reported that a woman, who was staying at the mansion, was in distress, according to deputies.

So if the sister talked to her at midnight - what on earth happened between midnight and 6:48 AM? That's the million dollar question.

MOO

Mel

Though I'm having a hard time believing any type of suicide theory...

She was very shaken up by Max's condition earlier... then she sounded perfectly okay at midnight, then a few hours after sounding perfectly okay, she turns up dead?

It isn't uncommon for people to become happier before they commit suicide... because they have made the decision to do it...

I do believe that is the only thing I've seen to point at all towards suicide.

I guess I can't post this link ... it's AZ Central Newspaper, but it's on FB. Some locals are posting on this article:

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2011/07/17/20110717arizona-shacknai-coronado-child-dies-from-injuries-0717.html

Comments on this article, not direct quotes, claim that

... Adam Shacknai would not say where his brother Jonah was at the time of the death. (from a San Diego news report)

.. Dina Shacknai was in the home when Max fell down the stairs.

If it is true that Dina was in the home... I wonder if maybe she and Rebecca got into a fight and Max got knocked off the stairs in the confusion?

time
07-18-2011, 04:51 PM
respectuflly snipped>
Interesting, I finally found out when Rebecca was found.

Adam Shacknai, the brother of homeowner Jonah Shacknai, discovered the victim's body and called 911 around 6:48 a.m. Wednesday and reported that a woman, who was staying at the mansion, was in distress, according to deputies.

So if the sister talked to her at midnight - what on earth happened between midnight and 6:48 AM? That's the million dollar question.

MOO

Mel

Hmmm ... do people normally commit suicide this time of day?

Her death was closer to 1 1/2 days after Max's accident then.

For what it;s worth ...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/14/woman-found-dead-spreckels-mansion-identified/


His first wife, Kimberly, filed for divorce in December 1998, and the feuding lasted until they finally settled in February 2001. The fight revolved around money and the custody of their two children, now ages 14 and 13.

By that time, Shacknai’s company was already earning him millions of dollars. The couple’s 1997 tax return, which was disclosed during the divorce, showed $6.7 million in income. Their 1998 return showed $16.99 million. She accused him of moving tens of millions of dollars to bank accounts she didn’t know about in the years before the divorce. He denied the accusation.

... A man who answered the phone Thursday at the South Carolina home of the ex-wife, who now goes by the name Kimberly James, said the family was not commenting to the media on the recent events.


I don't know if t he following was scrubbed from a news story or not... it only seems to appear in the cache now connected to the same article at signonsandiego

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sa=X&ei=b5UkTo_mKJOusAPVoKmBCQ&ved=0CBQQBSgA&q=Kathy+Davis,+28,+worked+for+his+second+wife,+Din a+Shacknai,+two+years+ago+as+a+personal+assistant+ in+Paradise+Valley,+Ariz.,+a+wealthy+enclave+near+ Scottsdale+where+the+couple+had+a+multimillion-dollar+mansion.+Davis+said+the+divorce+was+very+ac rimonious.&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=13d83150bb857caa&biw=1301&bih=852

Katy Davis, 28, worked for his second wife, Dina Shacknai, two years ago as a personal assistant in Paradise Valley, Ariz., a wealthy enclave near Scottsdale where the couple had a multimillion-dollar mansion. Davis said the divorce was very acrimonious. “Things were really rough, emotions were high

time
07-18-2011, 04:56 PM
Is there a link somewhere? Every article I've read indicates the only person at home was the girlfriend and the brother? Or are we talking about Max's accident?

I have no idea why the daughter would go to SC, as her base was in Phoenix, AZ. But wealthy people do travel all over - so who knows.

This gets more mysterious by the minute.

Mel


Sorry, Mel, my fault. I think the comment was indicating during Max's accident and that Dina was there - I haven't sen that mentioned anywhere else so take it with a grain of salt, I just thought it was worth noting here.

Melanie
07-18-2011, 04:56 PM
Does anyone think it is strange that there was a midnight phone call? I never call anyone after 8 p.m., but that is just me.

I never thought of that. We have family/friends in the UK, so our phone rings at all hours (Also, my SIL is in South Africa). With the accident on Monday, I wouldn't be suprised to see phone calls at late hours to make sure Rebecca was okay. I'm sure the family was worried sick :(

Just throwing that out there -- in light of all the odd circumstances in this case.

Mel

MsFacetious
07-18-2011, 04:57 PM
Does anyone think it is strange that there was a midnight phone call? I never call anyone after 8 p.m., but that is just me.

Maybe the sister worked nights or something? Because it would have been Midnight Rebecca's time but 2AM for the sister.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43774415/ns/local_news-san_diego_ca/t/new-details-coronado-mansion-mystery/

Melanie
07-18-2011, 05:01 PM
Sorry, Mel, my fault. I think the comment was indicating during Max's accident and that Dina was there - I haven't sen that mentioned anywhere else so take it with a grain of salt, I just thought it was worth noting here.

No worries - you were right! It's hard to keep track of 1 tragic incident in a home, let alone 2, on 2 separate days.

A 13-year-old girl called for help following the boy's fall. The teen, Zahau and [the boy] were the only ones in the residence at the time.

So it looks like G. Shacknai made the call. But where was Rebecca at the time of the fall? What did G witness?

I hope now that this is an open investigation we'll hear more in the days to come.

Hugs,

Mel

JoeFromLB
07-18-2011, 05:07 PM
the staircase at the mansion (2005 photo)

http://kfmb.images.worldnow.com/images/15075598_BG10.jpg

(photo at this link:
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/coronado-mansion-death?clienttype=printable)

time
07-18-2011, 05:08 PM
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/18/death-of-shacknai-boy-sparks-investigation/

Death of Shacknai boy sparks investigation

July 18, 2011

CORONADO — Law enforcement officials on Monday said they have launched an investigation into the death of 6-year-old Max Shacknai, who died over the weekend from a recent fall at the same Coronado mansion where a woman's body was found hanging.


Ack ... link doesn't work for me and I can't find this story by searching. Is it just me?

gxm
07-18-2011, 05:14 PM
Yep, hink-o-meter off the charts regarding this sad mess.

Yep, the hinky goes to 11. Perhaps even 12.

JoeFromLB
07-18-2011, 05:14 PM
I don't know if this has been posted yet:

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/coronado-mansion-death?clienttype=printable

Max's mother, psychologist Dr. Dina Shacknai, owns a summer house down the road from the Spreckels Mansion.

Dina and Jonah Shacknai were divorced in 2008. Friends say they were both at Max's bedside at the time of Zahau's mysterious death.

anyoldtime48
07-18-2011, 05:19 PM
Ack ... link doesn't work for me and I can't find this story by searching. Is it just me?

Works fine for me. You might try just going to the signonsandiego.com home page. Link is underneath the photo, headline and lead paragraph about the detective and her daughter who were murdered.

Death of Shacknai boy sparks investigation

time
07-18-2011, 05:19 PM
I don't know if this has been posted yet:

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/coronado-mansion-death?clienttype=printable

Max's mother, psychologist Dr. Dina Shacknai, owns a summer house down the road from the Spreckels Mansion.

Dina and Jonah Shacknai were divorced in 2008. Friends say they were both at Max's bedside at the time of Zahau's mysterious death.

I thought I read earlier that her house is only 2 blocks away? And, that the hospital was actually extremely close also.

JoeFromLB
07-18-2011, 05:24 PM
I thought I read earlier that her house is only 2 blocks away? And, that the hospital was actually extremely close also.

Something is bothering me...how would the Shacknai's "friends" know when Rebecca died? I don't believe the time of death has been released by the coroner yet.

time
07-18-2011, 05:26 PM
Works fine for me. You might try just going to the signonsandiego.com home page. Link is underneath the photo, headline and lead paragraph about the detective and her daughter who were murdered.

Death of Shacknai boy sparks investigation

Thanks it's showing up now, maybe they were down temporarily

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/18/death-of-shacknai-boy-sparks-investigation/

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 05:31 PM
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/07/mystery-surrounds-deaths-at-spreckels-mansion-.html

On Sunday, the owner of the mansion, drug company executive Jonah Shacknai, announced his 6-year-old son, Max, died from a fall suffered Monday, July 11.
The mansion was the site of the still-unexplained death of the Shacknai's girlfriend. Rebecca Nalepa, was found dead in the courtyard of the 27-room estate two days after Max Shacknai was taken to the hospital.
Her body was discovered hanging from a balcony, her hands and feet bound, according to the San Diego County Sheriff's Department, which has said her death may have been a suicide.

Very very strange story....more at link above

Melanie
07-18-2011, 05:34 PM
I thought I read earlier that her house is only 2 blocks away? And, that the hospital was actually extremely close also.

The hospital they took Maxie to was off the island - meaning they didn't take him to the main hosptial on Coronado (Sharp Hospital). Instead he went to Rady's Children Hospital - which is about 30 minutes away (not counting bridge traffic).

The only way in/out of Coronado is the Bay Bridge or by ferry/helicopter.

North Central City (Main Campus)
3020 Children's Way
San Diego, CA 92123

Rady is the main children's hospital in San Diego (and a good one at that).

Mel

time
07-18-2011, 05:35 PM
Something is bothering me...how would the Shacknai's "friends" know when Rebecca died? I don't believe the time of death has been released by the coroner yet.

I guess they knew when Adam found her, but as I've posted, she seemed to be still alive when firefighters arrived.

What I was wondering is how would they really know that both of Max's parents were in the hospital, expecially at 6:30 or before in the morning. I'm sure they were told that, not that they knew. I doubt the nurses would even know if they were there all the time.

JoeFromLB
07-18-2011, 05:35 PM
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/coronado-mansion-death?clienttype=printable

Shacknai's ex-wife, Dina Shacknai, a clinical psychologist based in Arizona, also lives part-time at a nearby home in Coronado. News 8 spoke to an unidentified man at Dina Shacknai's home, who said she was not prepared to make a public statement at this time. He added that Dina Shacknai was at the hospital with her son at the time of the incident at the mansion.

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 05:36 PM
photos at this link

http://www.theage.com.au/world/deaths-of-a-billionaires-girlfriend-and-son-cause-a-sensation-in-the-town-where-you-dont-expect-anything-like-this-to-happen-20110718-1hkzx.html

anyoldtime48
07-18-2011, 05:37 PM
I thought I read earlier that her house is only 2 blocks away? And, that the hospital was actually extremely close also.

Dunno how close her home is, but Google maps puts the hospital at about 12 miles north of his home on Ocean Blvd.

Close is relative of course. But LE said they had been in constant touch with Jonah and I suspect he and Dina had spent the entire night at Max's side and were confirmed to be at the hospital. So if they were known to be there the all night, then he indeed would not have been at home at her time of death....which occurred sometime between the phone call and when she was apparently found hanging.

sorrell skye
07-18-2011, 05:38 PM
Does anyone think it is strange that there was a midnight phone call? I never call anyone after 8 p.m., but that is just me.

Her sister said she called Rebecca @ midnight, so it may have been midnight for the sister, but 10:00 p.m. for Rebecca.

IzzyBlanche
07-18-2011, 05:54 PM
The hospital they took Maxie to was off the island - meaning they didn't take him to the main hosptial on Coronado (Sharp Hospital). Instead he went to Rady's Children Hospital - which is about 30 minutes away (not counting bridge traffic).

The only way in/out of Coronado is the Bay Bridge or by ferry/helicopter.

North Central City (Main Campus)
3020 Children's Way
San Diego, CA 92123

Rady is the main children's hospital in San Diego (and a good one at that).

Mel

Well, this just gets weirder and weirder.

Do a google news search for "Max Shacknai transferred Rady." The snippet that comes up clearly says, "CPR was performed and the youngster was taken to Coronado Hospital before being transferred to Rady Children's Hospital."

But when I click the link to go to the article:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/14/woman-found-dead-spreckels-mansion-identified/

...the article says nothing about him going to Coronado Hospital!

Man, can't anyone get their facts straight?

JoeFromLB
07-18-2011, 05:57 PM
Another thing that's bothering me:

excerpt:
The man who made the call, Adam Shacknai, told investigators he found Zahau's body hanging from a second-floor balcony over a courtyard and cut the rope or cord attached to her neck to get her down, sheriff's homicide Capt. Tim Curran said. ...

http://www.10news.com/news/28579183/detail.html

Unfortunately, that act may have compromised the evidence to some degree.
Also, I have not read any stories that state Rebecca was definitely still alive when the medics arrived. Has anyone heard differently?

Melanie
07-18-2011, 06:00 PM
Well, this just gets weirder and weirder.

Do a google news search for "Max Shacknai transferred Rady." The snippet that comes up clearly says, "CPR was performed and the youngster was taken to Coronado Hospital before being transferred to Rady Children's Hospital."

But when I click the link to go to the article:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/14/woman-found-dead-spreckels-mansion-identified/

...the article says nothing about him going to Coronado Hospital!

Man, can't anyone get their facts straight?

I know - I get the same thing. If Maxie went to Sharp Coronado, no one is saying. Would they transfer a child in such critical condition, or take him straight to the nearest critical care unit for children. If they did transfer him, it should have been by copter - IMHO.

I think he went straight to Rady's myself.

MOO

Mel

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 06:06 PM
I'm not too sure that one can convincingly tie his/her own hands behind their back. Feet, maybe, but unless you are Houdini or the Greatest Boy Scout Knot Tyer, I just don't see it being passing for authentic. It would be loose. Think about it -- how many of us can scratch our own backs, let alone do things with our arms behind us? If I tried to tie my hands in front of me, I still don't think it would be very tight. I guess I think that's a dead giveaway. For example, in the Jayna Murray/Lululemon murder, Brittany Norwood attempted to make it look real and they knew straight away that it was fishy because of the way her hands WEREN'T tied. And why stage your murder that way? Pack your bags and leave town, cut yourself and throw some blood around. I don't know... It's nefarious.

Also, why wouldn't she be with her significant other at the hospital? I understand you can't be there 24/7, but is there any mention anywhere of her having visited the boy or being there to support her boyfriend?

It sounds like this accident with the son happened and someone blamed Rebecca. Even if she blamed herself and decided to go out on her own out of guilt (or because she thought people assumed her guilt) the rest is just uncalled for. Who restrains his/herself? So she couldn't stop herself? If you really want to die, you won't anyway.

I hate to see so much tragedy happen and have someone's death sold short.


It's very possible to tie hands together in the front and step over them to now have them tied behind you. I just tried it, it was easy

sorrell skye
07-18-2011, 06:06 PM
From Charlie09's link:

The body of a 32-year-old woman, Rebecca M. Zahau, was found hanging from the balcony of the Ocean Boulevard house Wednesday, her nude body bound at the ankles and her wrists tied behind her back, sheriff’s investigators said.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/14/woman-found-dead-spreckels-mansion-identified/

Wrists tied behind her back????

If this account is accurate, I'm seriously skeptical it was a suicide.

How does one tie their own hands behind their back - and with orange electrical wire (which sounds to me like it may have been one of those heavy duty carpenter-type extension cords)?

Others in this thread have expressed similar disbelief that her death was the result of suicide. I agree - her wrists tied behind her back make the suicide scenario seem implausible, IMO.

JenniferTx
07-18-2011, 06:12 PM
Very strange story....when I first read it my first thought was that she killed herself because she felt bad because the 6 year old had died.

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 06:23 PM
I want to know what else was found when the boy was found. Once my brother and I took a ride down our carpeted stairs on a boogie board. Yeah, I grew up in San Diego, so we had boogie boards handy!


Yep, my own son always slid down the stairs on a boogie board, cardboard, snow tube...didn't matter to him as long as he slid fast and it never bothered me.

marycarney
07-18-2011, 06:28 PM
Ummm..... just how exactly do you bind your own hands and feel and THEN climb over the railing with a rope around your neck? Seriously kids - unless she had a previous career as a circus contortionist, I ain't buyin' it!

JMHO

sorrell skye
07-18-2011, 06:30 PM
A day after the body was found, technicians were seen removing several items from the house, including a table with a leg missing, a roll of carpet and a large painting.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/14/woman-found-dead-spreckels-mansion-identified/

I can understand taking a table with a broken leg as potential evidence, but why a roll of carpet and a large painting?

Melanie
07-18-2011, 06:32 PM
A day after the body was found, technicians were seen removing several items from the house, including a table with a leg missing, a roll of carpet and a large painting.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/14/woman-found-dead-spreckels-mansion-identified/

I can understand taking a table with a broken leg as potential evidence, but why a roll of carpet and a large painting?


Blood spatter?

Donjeta
07-18-2011, 06:32 PM
There is another thread:

Rebecca Nalepa - Page 4 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

sorrell skye
07-18-2011, 06:38 PM
Image of what looks like a roll of carpet being removed from the residence:

http://media.signonsandiego.com/img/photos/2011/07/14/UTI1601094_t620x349.jpg?355b3277bec9d339f1728cced3 aced55a8e84e56

http://www.signonsandiego.com/photos/galleries/2011/jul/14/body-found-spreckels-mansion/21825/#galleries

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 06:44 PM
Authorities would not say exactly how the two incidents may be connected, but said the boy's reported accident needs to be looked at in light of the death of Rebecca M. Zahau, 32.

Investigators believe Zahau's death was either a homicide or a suicide, Frank said.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/18/death-of-shacknai-boy-sparks-investigation/






red by me....wow ! No ***** Sherlock comes to mind:banghead:

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 06:50 PM
I didn't think to look for it over there as it is not offically a crime, had I known there was a thread already....I wouldn't have started this one. :innocent:

Wholehearted
07-18-2011, 07:03 PM
I understand that some people who commit suicide by hanging tie their hands so that they don't pull at the rope and save themselves. But why the feet? I'd think it would make it harder to commit suicide--harder to kick the chair away if you're on a chair, and way harder to jump off a balcony. I can see why a murderer would tie someone's feet to stop them from struggling. I'm having trouble thinking of any reason a suicide would.

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 07:13 PM
Hmmm ... do people normally commit suicide this time of day?

I don't know if t he following was scrubbed from a news story or not... it only seems to appear in the cache now connected to the same article at signonsandiego

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sa=X&ei=b5UkTo_mKJOusAPVoKmBCQ&ved=0CBQQBSgA&q=Kathy+Davis,+28,+worked+for+his+second+wife,+Din a+Shacknai,+two+years+ago+as+a+personal+assistant+ in+Paradise+Valley,+Ariz.,+a+wealthy+enclave+near+ Scottsdale+where+the+couple+had+a+multimillion-dollar+mansion.+Davis+said+the+divorce+was+very+ac rimonious.&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=13d83150bb857caa&biw=1301&bih=852

I don't think the murder/suicide was at 6:38 a.m. My interpretation was that was the time he awoke to find the body.

Re: the comment by Katy - when it was first published there was a postscript stating Katy (Dina's prior personal assistant) was the sister of the article's author (and it stated there was a confidentiality agreement per the divorce). I was surprised the article was published since it seemed like a breach of confidentiality. I assume Katy had 2nd thoughts and had it pulled.

Winward1
07-18-2011, 07:13 PM
Seems this story is getting national play on TV. I wonder why they waited so long or if they're just lazy with all of their reporters off weekends.

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 07:19 PM
Seems this story is getting national play on TV. I wonder why they waited so long or if they're just lazy with all of their reporters off weekends.


I can't believe JVM & NG will spent tonight GUESSING where Casey Anthony is instead of hopping on a new missing person's case, this case or another one of countless other senseless crimes.

The next thing I want to hear about Casey Anthony is she's been arrested, died or some news worthy report like she was beat by a pack of angry moms. Until then...I've HAD IT with Casey! NO more media coverage for her!

jjenny
07-18-2011, 07:44 PM
It's very possible to tie hands together in the front and step over them to now have them tied behind you. I just tried it, it was easy

Well if she did that how did she manage to hang herself after her hands were behind her back? Especially considering her feet were also bound? And why naked? What woman would commit suicide naked?
I don't buy it.

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 07:59 PM
Well if she did that how did she manage to hang herself after her hands were behind her back? Especially considering her feet were also bound? And why naked? What woman would commit suicide naked?
I don't buy it.


I don't buy it either.

I'm just saying the hand thing is possible. No way do I believe she would stripped down and go through all that trouble binding herself to hang herself.

Melanie
07-18-2011, 08:01 PM
I can't believe JVM & NG will spent tonight GUESSING where Casey Anthony is instead of hopping on a new missing person's case, this case or another one of countless other senseless crimes.

The next thing I want to hear about Casey Anthony is she's been arrested, died or some news worthy report like she was beat by a pack of angry moms. Until then...I've HAD IT with Casey! NO more media coverage for her!

Sorry to get OT, but I am SO mad at HLN. All day - rehash the FCA trial. Why? What's the purpose. I sent a tweet to VP and told him to knock it off, or he's going to lose a gazillion viewers. I also mentioned this case!!!

We should flood HLN/JVM/NG/VP with tweets and e-mails to stop talking about the felon. I am OVER her.

Mel

BuzzieCat
07-18-2011, 08:03 PM
This is a very strange happening. I haven't see anything mentioning where JS is or if he is a suspect or anything.

Melanie
07-18-2011, 08:09 PM
I understand that some people who commit suicide by hanging tie their hands so that they don't pull at the rope and save themselves. But why the feet? I'd think it would make it harder to commit suicide--harder to kick the chair away if you're on a chair, and way harder to jump off a balcony. I can see why a murderer would tie someone's feet to stop them from struggling. I'm having trouble thinking of any reason a suicide would.

That seems like a LOT of work. If she bound her feet, then how did she get her hands behind her? Sure you can get your hands behind your back by placing them under your feet -- but what if your feet are bound? How do you stand up now with your arms behind your back and your legs bound? Do you roll off the balcony?

I tried to do it -- you can't get your bound hands behind your back with both feet bound first. One leg at a time, maybe -- but both?

Try it - put both your feet together, put both hands together -- try to get your hands under your feet. struggle, struggle, struggle - I can't do it.

Unless you're a yoga fanatic, I don't see how it's possible.

MOO

Mel

anyoldtime48
07-18-2011, 08:13 PM
Well if she did that how did she manage to hang herself after her hands were behind her back? Especially considering her feet were also bound? And why naked? What woman would commit suicide naked?
I don't buy it.

Well, let's run the steps and see how much sense any of this makes.

Step 1 - get naked. Check.

Step 2 - get a rope. Make a noose and put it over your head and tie the other end to balcony railing. Check.

Step 3 - bind your feet together with something. Check.

Step 4 - bind your hands together with electrical cord (from a media report, take with grain of salt). Check.

Step 5 - sit down so you can now maneuver your bound feet thru your ams, and then stand back up. Unless you are in really great athletic shape (she looked to be) and can "hop" thru your bound hands with your bound feet, and have no need to sit to do that. Check.

Step 6 - h-h-h-HEAVE your bound up self over the 3-ft railing you tied the rope to in Step 2 above. Check.

And of course do this from an outside balcony which more or less faces the guesthouse, and hope the guest in residence is soundly sleeping and won't come running to save you when hears a "thud" of body reaching end of rope, after having heaved itself over.

okey dokey. I guess all doable. All naked. IMHO would have to be 3 sheets to the wind to go that far to off yourself. Binds would have to have been pretty loose, which we of course don't have answers to and won't.

But likely??? Sorry, based on what is out there now, and it's not much with the records sealed, I also vote for plenty of current reasonable doubt it was suicide. Can't wrap my head around any thought process that would bring a woman to take such elaborate lengths to end it all.

With my blinders on, all I can see right now is retribution for either perceived, or actual wrongdoing in poor Max's death.

MOO.

Melanie
07-18-2011, 08:18 PM
:tyou:

Thank you Anyoldtime - your post makes perfect sense. There is no way I believe she comitted suicide, and someone is gonna have a hard time talking me out of it (media, LE, etc).

MOO

Mel

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 08:19 PM
That seems like a LOT of work. If she bound her feet, then how did she get her hands behind her? Sure you can get your hands behind your back by placing them under your feet -- but what if your feet are bound? How do you stand up now with your arms behind your back and your legs bound? Do you roll off the balcony?

I tried to do it -- you can't get your bound hands behind your back with both feet bound first. One leg at a time, maybe -- but both?

Try it - put both your feet together, put both hands together -- try to get your hands under your feet. struggle, struggle, struggle - I can't do it.

Unless you're a yoga fanatic, I don't see how it's possible.

MOO

Mel


sit down and do it ;) Then hop to balcony

almino
07-18-2011, 08:20 PM
What gets me is the little detail in reporting Maxie's death. Nothing mentions where he landed (at the very end of the stairs, just over the first landing/balcony, etc), position of body/head, other objects, where were the 3 people (cousin, Rebecca and Nina), was he observed, was the 13 year old there too when it happened? From one article you could almost take it that maybe he had a medical problem (lack of hearbeat, blacking out or something) that caused him to fall down the stairs.

I find it remarkable that details are so hush hush and vague in the reporting. He falls, goes into a coma, he dies and the parents give a statement that they will miss him. Or am I missing something in the details?

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 08:23 PM
Why did the brother lie to the leasing agent and end up in the guesthouse?

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 08:26 PM
I don't think he fell down the stairs, I think he landed near the stairs, he fell from the balcony....

but reporting has been spotty, confusing, and contradictory at best!

Invisible
07-18-2011, 08:28 PM
It's very possible to tie hands together in the front and step over them to now have them tied behind you. I just tried it, it was easy

Ha, I thought of that too, but now you have to tie your feet together. Or you would have to jump through your arms if you tied your feet first. I'm not sure if she could do that...maybe.

Melanie
07-18-2011, 08:30 PM
sit down and do it ;) Then hop to balcony

That's right - she would have to haul herself over that balcony too. What are the keystone cops thinking? I know they don't handle much over there besides jaywalking, but puhleeze.

Me thinks someone pushed her off that balcony. If I take the blinders off, someone just may have pushed little Max off the stairwell (and not down the stairs).

I'm so sad. Where are the CSI folks? This reminds me of the Kathleen Peterson case (where Kathleen accidentally fell down the stairs). Michael is now in prison.

I have no idea who did this, but I believe both died at the hands or help of another.

MOO

Mel

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 08:33 PM
I don't think he fell down the stairs, I think he landed near the stairs, he fell from the balcony....

but reporting has been spotty, confusing, and contradictory at best!

I can totally see the planking theory. Laying atop the balcony spindles/rail and falling off. At 6, you are not in need of 24/7 supervision (i.e. the parent/guardian can be in the kitchen while child is in other room), so maybe Rebecca had no idea.

Who in the heck would kill Rebecca though and be so brazen about it? The whole thing makes no sense.

Unimportant note: I wonder why they removed the beautiful purple flowers from the walkway. They were stunning. The grass alone looks so plain.

Coronado is heaven on earth (in my opinion). Love love love it. I'm sure the neighbors don't appreciate any of this!

anyoldtime48
07-18-2011, 08:36 PM
Timely video about Suicide vs Homicide. I forgot Step 7. Your BF's brother "runs" to your rescue by cutting you down from 2nd story to apparently bounce off table below before smacking the ground. If the rope around the neck didn't kill you already, the fall just might.

Not that one would expect a human to be thinking all that clearly if they saw a naked person hanging and likely already deceased. Can't really kill them "more" if they are already gone.

I'm presuming the table removed was the one near her body. You can see what looks like one leg broken off it on the side next to the house.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend

Quester
07-18-2011, 08:37 PM
Why did the brother lie to the leasing agent and end up in the guesthouse?

I haven't read that he lied - do you have a link?

??? Perhaps he was going about his day normally on Tuesday in Memphis, received an emergency "come help" call from his brother and high tailed it to the airport and a plane bound for SD ???

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 08:37 PM
I have no idea who did this, but I believe both died at the hands or help of another.

MOO

Mel

But what would be the motive for killing a 6 year old boy? That makes no sense.

And if Jonah was at the hospital right after the accident, I can't imagine he would place a "hit" for Rebecca (even if she was negligent, which we haven't heard about at ALL). He would be consumed about his son's condition, imo.

Was the brother (wonder if there are some interesting dynamics in this relationship as he has a millionaire brother, yet he works on a tugboat and leases an apt.) the only other person at the house?

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 08:43 PM
I haven't read that he lied - do you have a link?

??? Perhaps he was going about his day normally on Tuesday in Memphis, received an emergency "come help" call from his brother and high tailed it to the airport and a plane bound for SD ???


It's already been linked. I know I read it in an article linked here on this thread. The brother told the leasing agent he had to go work on his tugboat or something....but ended up in the guest house at the mansion.

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 08:44 PM
Well if she did that how did she manage to hang herself after her hands were behind her back? Especially considering her feet were also bound? And why naked? What woman would commit suicide naked?
I don't buy it.

I can't figure out how you'd hang yourself after your hands were tied OR how you would successfully tie your own hands after you have hung yourself. I don't think so.

I also agree that especially if it was an "honor suicide", she would have been wearing clothing because who wants to be found by strangers nude? No woman I know.

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 08:46 PM
I believe (JMO) that the boy died by accident in the way that no one INTENDED for him to die, but Rebecca was ultimately felt to be responsible because she was the adult there. I don't get the feeling that the boy's death was foul play. I do, however, (JMOOO) believe that Rebecca was murdered as a result of what happened to the boy.

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 08:46 PM
Ha, I thought of that too, but now you have to tie your feet together. Or you would have to jump through your arms if you tied your feet first. I'm not sure if she could do that...maybe.

This article says:

Nalepa was hung from a three-foot railing by a rope, Curran said, with her hands tied behind her back. She had bindings on each leg, but they were not tied together.

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/woman-who-died-at-spreckels-mansion-found-hanging-nude-from-balcony

Hmmmm,,,,,,,,

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 08:47 PM
...and looking at the photo of where she was found, there's no way she was lying in that part of the yard having been cut directly down from somewhere. Unless the angle is just way off, there's nothing *right* above that patch of grass. IMO, he'd have had to drag her downstairs and into the yard or cut her down and throw her over. Cannot imagine someone doing either after the fact.

anyoldtime48
07-18-2011, 08:47 PM
Why did the brother lie to the leasing agent and end up in the guesthouse?

I don't think he lied, just had his plans changed after he ran into the leasing agent, and then getting the call that his nephew was on life support. The Memphis story was dated the 15th, and leasing agent states he last saw him "a few days ago." Which could easily translate to before Max's fall.

In other words, off to Coronado in support of his brother instead of back out on the tugboat.

Or extraordinarily bad timing for just a visit. Best case scenarios.

Quester
07-18-2011, 08:47 PM
It's already been linked. I know I read it in an article linked here on this thread. The brother told the leasing agent he had to go work on his tugboat or something....but ended up in the guest house at the mansion.

Yes - I read that - but I think it's a stretch at this point to call it an intentional "lie". What was reported and you quoted may have very well been what he had intended to do and then something came up to change his plans.

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 08:48 PM
This article says:

Nalepa was hung from a three-foot railing by a rope, Curran said, with her hands tied behind her back. She had bindings on each leg, but they were not tied together.

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/woman-who-died-at-spreckels-mansion-found-hanging-nude-from-balcony

Hmmmm,,,,,,,,

Sexual party game gone wrong? Pretense of a sexual game that turned out to have murderous intentions? Someone trying to stage a suicide (her or someone else) wouldn't have bound her legs. That would be stupid.

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 08:52 PM
This article says:

Nalepa was hung from a three-foot railing by a rope, Curran said, with her hands tied behind her back. She had bindings on each leg, but they were not tied together.

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/woman-who-died-at-spreckels-mansion-found-hanging-nude-from-balcony

Hmmmm,,,,,,,,


Maybe the tugboat working apartment renting brother wanted to move into the big house and give his rich brothers girl a whirl? I wonder what she was bound to before she was hung? Sorry...no matter how I slice it or what the motive was...it looks like MURDER to me

anyoldtime48
07-18-2011, 08:52 PM
This article says:

Nalepa was hung from a three-foot railing by a rope, Curran said, with her hands tied behind her back. She had bindings on each leg, but they were not tied together.

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/woman-who-died-at-spreckels-mansion-found-hanging-nude-from-balcony

Hmmmm,,,,,,,,

Badly written, or translated from LE release I think. Feet were bound. Hands bound behind back. Just that feet and hands were not bound to each other (i.e. hog tied). Straight from the LE presser.

sargenet
07-18-2011, 08:55 PM
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/new-details-emerge-about-ceos-relationship-with-ex-wife-07182011

I thought this was pretty interesting. Looks like his ex-wife got violent with Jonah in the past when they were going through a divorce.

Could it be possible she left the hospital, under the pretext of getting some clothes or taking a shower at her house a few blocks away...then attacked Rebecca as revenge?

Did she blame Rebecca for her son's death? A mother in distress can do weird things if she thought she was avenging her child...

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 08:55 PM
Badly written, or translated from LE release I think. Feet were bound. Hands bound behind back. Just that feet and hands were not bound to each other (i.e. hog tied). Straight from the LE presser.


Up thread somewhere I read at a link a helicopter filmed her and her legs were not bound together.

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 09:00 PM
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/new-details-emerge-about-ceos-relationship-with-ex-wife-07182011

I thought this was pretty interesting. Looks like his ex-wife got violent with Jonah in the past when they were going through a divorce.

Could it be possible she left the hospital, under the pretext of getting some clothes or taking a shower at her house a few blocks away...then attacked Rebecca as revenge?

Did she blame Rebecca for her son's death? A mother in distress can do weird things if she thought she was avenging her child...

This article does not surprise me. It is the feeling I have had all along. Earlier I posted I didn't think Rebecca would have been welcome at the hospital to go provide comfort to Jonah (Dina would have killed her, imo of course). Dina is very bitter because her marriage broke up due to Rebecca (from what I have read and imo). BUT, I just don't see Dina leaving her dying child's bedside to kill Rebecca. Maybe after he dies, but not when he is in the hospital.

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 09:00 PM
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/125764328.html

Forensic evidence will be key in determining whether the death of a woman at a Coronado mansion was a suicide or a homicide

Source: Forensics Key in Solving Mansion Mystery | NBC San Diego (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/125764328.html#ixzz1SWK7u3WF)

Can't imagine what forensics would do.

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 09:00 PM
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/new-details-emerge-about-ceos-relationship-with-ex-wife-07182011

I thought this was pretty interesting. Looks like his ex-wife got violent with Jonah in the past when they were going through a divorce.

Could it be possible she left the hospital, under the pretext of getting some clothes or taking a shower at her house a few blocks away...then attacked Rebecca as revenge?

Did she blame Rebecca for her son's death? A mother in distress can do weird things if she thought she was avenging her child...

I wouldn't rule it out. It could happen. I'd be looking at hospital surveillance and I'm sure there's *some* surveillance in and out of the mansion somewhere. Cell phone pings? Text/phone messages?

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 09:01 PM
Was Max Dina's only child? I know he was with Jonah, but haven't heard if she had other kids.

anyoldtime48
07-18-2011, 09:01 PM
Sexual party game gone wrong? Pretense of a sexual game that turned out to have murderous intentions? Someone trying to stage a suicide (her or someone else) wouldn't have bound her legs. That would be stupid.

LE says they have no evidence of sex games gone wrong. No accident. Suicide or homicide.

Good news is that murderers often make mistakes and are thus caught, and if you have a jury with a collective brain, removed from society.

If you are trying to hang somebody who isn't already out good and cold, they would sure fight you a lot less (and reduce possibility of kick to the groin) if hands are tied behind their back AND their feet are bound.

But I would still have to think there would be plenty of signs of a struggle left behind. One or both parties would probably have some fresh bruises.

heck, maybe she was hogtied until just before being tossed over the rail. Or until she conveniently landed in the yard.

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 09:03 PM
Baffling...

IMO someone wanted to not only kill her but humiliate her as well

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 09:04 PM
Baffling...

IMO someone wanted to not only kill her but humiliate her as well

See, that is what gets me about this case. UNLESS she was completely intoxicated, I cannot imagine her (or any other woman) hanging herself naked.

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 09:05 PM
LE says they have no evidence of sex games gone wrong. No accident. Suicide or homicide.

Good news is that murderers often make mistakes and are thus caught, and if you have a jury with a collective brain, removed from society.

If you are trying to hang somebody who isn't already out good and cold, they would sure fight you a lot less (and reduce possibility of kick to the groin) if hands are tied behind their back AND their feet are bound.

But I would still have to think there would be plenty of signs of a struggle left behind. One or both parties would probably have some fresh bruises.

heck, maybe she was hogtied until just before being tossed over the rail. Or until she conveniently landed in the yard.

Article states they are checking her body for sexual assault evidence. So it has not been ruled out. Toxocology results take a long time, maybe she was drugged, bound and tossed over? Who knows

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 09:06 PM
Whether she was or wasn't sexually assaulted, she still could have been in a sexual situation when she allowed herself to be bound or at least to get her vulnerable.

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 09:07 PM
See, that is what gets me about this case. UNLESS she was completely intoxicated, I cannot imagine her (or any other woman) hanging herself naked.

I wouldn't even do it s-faced drunk. I'd have to be drugged pretty good...good enough to NOT be able to carry out what she is supposed to have carried out.

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 09:09 PM
I want to know if he stood on the table to cut her down....or did he go upstairs and cut her down from up there.

I would expect a woman hanging herself would not leave the length of the rope long...what if she misjudged and hit the ground?

sargenet
07-18-2011, 09:09 PM
BUT, I just don't see Dina leaving her dying child's bedside to kill Rebecca. Maybe after he dies, but not when he is in the hospital.

Depends on what news she got on Tuesday. If they told her he was brain dead she might have just snapped. I also think this is her only child. I have a 7 year old son...and he is my only child. If my son died when someone else was watching him I might snap too....and it sounds like there was already a lot of BAD blood between Rebecca and the ex-wife.

Committing suicide while naked didn't make sense...but I can see a crazed mother who lost their child try to humiliate the woman who probably stole her husband and then took her son (in her eyes) do something crazy like this. Heck he stated she tried to choke him before!!

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 09:10 PM
Regarding the brother finding Rebecca hanging and cutting her down. I guess I find that odd now that I think about it. I probably would have called the police first. I think it would be obvious if she was dead or not. Cutting down a 120 lb woman (just guessing weight) from a balcony can't be that easy. ??? If she was screaming or crying, that would be one thing, but she was dead.

sorrell skye
07-18-2011, 09:12 PM
Dr. Mark Kalish (forensic psychiatrist) is saying what I was thinking about the mode of "suicide" regarding women versus men.

Dr. Kalish believes that the way Rebecca's body was found bound and hanging leads him to believe that the death was a staged suicide.

Dr. Kalish: "Typically men commit suicide in a violent way using guns, hanging, knives... whereas women prefer things like overdosing on pills, drowning..."

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend

More commentary by Dr. Kalish can be heard on the video in the link above. I agree with his statements.

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 09:12 PM
Regarding the brother finding Rebecca hanging and cutting her down. I guess I find that odd now that I think about it. I probably would have called the police first. I think it would be obvious if she was dead or not. Cutting down a 120 lb woman (just guessing weight) from a balcony can't be that easy. ??? If she was screaming or crying, that would be one thing, but she was dead.

Also, the table in the photo doesn't look tall enough to reach a second story or anything nearby, so if he stood on it to cut her down (as a previous poster mentioned), it was moved after the fact.

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 09:13 PM
Depends on what news she got on Tuesday. If they told her he was brain dead she might have just snapped. I also think this is her only child. I have a 7 year old son...and he is my only child. If my son died when someone else was watching him I might snap too....and it sounds like there was already a lot of BAD blood between Rebecca and the ex-wife.

Committing suicide while naked didn't make sense...but I can see a crazed mother who lost their child try to humiliate the woman who probably stole her husband and then took her son (in her eyes) do something crazy like this. Heck he stated she tried to choke him before!!

If I was in a similar situation as this mother, I would totally snap (I can't imagine I would resort to violence though) if he died - esp at the hands of the woman who took my husband!!!!! But, I would not leave the hospital even if my child was brain dead.

sargenet
07-18-2011, 09:15 PM
, but she was dead.

That is the question. I have read a few reports saying she was in "distress". Based on the photos I think the brother probably pulled that table under the balcony and that is how he got her down. She would have fell if he cut her down and landed where she did in the courtyard....if he would have run up into the bedroom and cut her down she would have fell and she might have been injured more.

Maybe by pulling the table under her he thought he could cut the cord and catch her. He actually might have and carried her to the area where the photo shows her body...

It will be interesting to see if the items they took show a struggle in the bedroom....

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 09:17 PM
The brother lawyered up...right? I'm thinking he's lookin pretty good right now and LE is crossing the T's and dotting their I's before an arrest is ever made.

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 09:17 PM
That is the question. I have read a few reports saying she was in "distress". Based on the photos I think the brother probably pulled that table under the balcony and that is how he got her down. She would have fell if he cut her down and landed where she did in the courtyard....if he would have run up into the bedroom and cut her down she would have fell and she might have been injured more.

Maybe by pulling the table under her he thought he could cut the cord and catch her. He actually might have and carried her to the area where the photo shows her body...

It will be interesting to see if the items they took show a struggle in the bedroom....

Oh, now that changes everything if she was alive. Like someone posted earlier, who commits suicide at 6:30 a.m.? Even murder. I would assume most murders (involving romance, betrayal, sex, hate, etc.) happen in the wee hours of the night. Usually morning makes people think more rationally.

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 09:18 PM
The brother lawyered up...right? I'm thinking he's lookin pretty good right now and LE is crossing the T's and dotting their I's before an arrest is ever made.

Was it confirmed he signed on with Pfingst?

Melanie
07-18-2011, 09:20 PM
...and looking at the photo of where she was found, there's no way she was lying in that part of the yard having been cut directly down from somewhere. Unless the angle is just way off, there's nothing *right* above that patch of grass. IMO, he'd have had to drag her downstairs and into the yard or cut her down and throw her over. Cannot imagine someone doing either after the fact.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that. If you're cut you fall straight down right? Now perhaps she bounced off the table and that's why she's in that position. But IMHO she's too far from the balcony if he cut her down (assuming he cut her down from the balcony).

It's all so very odd. I think the SD/OC sleuthers need to go pay a visit to the crime scene to figure it out. Too bad we couldn't get in.

Mel

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 09:21 PM
Was it confirmed he signed on with Pfingst?


Honestly? I have no FLIPPING IDEA! Every single article I read contradicts a previous one...ya got me:banghead:

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 09:23 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that. If you're cut you fall straight down right? Now perhaps she bounced off the table and that's why she's in that position. But IMHO she's too far from the balcony if he cut her down (assuming he cut her down from the balcony).

It's all so very odd. I think the SD/OC sleuthers need to go pay a visit to the crime scene to figure it out. Too bad we couldn't get in.

Mel


another article states after he cut her down, he carried her over to the grass and laid her down.

Would LOVE to hear the 911 call

anyoldtime48
07-18-2011, 09:23 PM
Up thread somewhere I read at a link a helicopter filmed her and her legs were not bound together.

about 6:18 into the very informative 22 minute presser. Curran clarifies "not together" to mean, not "hog tied".

I think the less than MSM stopped on this after hearing feet not bound together, i.e. not together with hands. Was confusing the way it was handled.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=6051226&redirected=true

also from CBS 8 in San Diego:

Adam Shacknai, the brother of homeowner Jonah Shacknai, discovered the victim's body and called 911 around 6:48 a.m. Wednesday and reported that a woman, who was staying at the mansion, was in distress, according to deputies. After Adam Shacknai found Zahau's body hanging by a rope from a balcony, he cut her down. Zahau's hands were tied behind her back and her feet were also bound together.

and...

Investigators are calling the death suspicious but have not ruled out the possibility of suicide. A view from Chopper 8 showed a woman's naked body lying with her feet bound, in the mansion's courtyard.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/coronado-mansion-death?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=6051306&redirected=true

FWIW, the only helo footage I've seen has Rebecca's body blessedly blurred out and thus no way to determine if her feet were bound to each other. Not sure how else feet would qualify as "bound"?

MOO

Quester
07-18-2011, 09:23 PM
Regarding the brother finding Rebecca hanging and cutting her down. I guess I find that odd now that I think about it. I probably would have called the police first. I think it would be obvious if she was dead or not. Cutting down a 120 lb woman (just guessing weight) from a balcony can't be that easy. ??? If she was screaming or crying, that would be one thing, but she was dead.

The early reports were that the brother called 911 saying Rebecca was "in distress" - whatever that means when one is hanging by a rope around the neck.

She may still have been moving ???? In any case, if ever I view a loved one or family member in such a situation I would claw to get them down as quickly as possible regardless of how blue they may be. Administer CPR while calling 911.

I hope never to be in such a situation.

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 09:23 PM
Awww Pfingst is goooood. He was the DA when I lived in San Diego.

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 09:24 PM
another article states after he cut her down, he carried her over to the grass and laid her down.

Would LOVE to hear the 911 call

Nah. Why would you do that? Why not just lie her down where she is and start CPR or make the call? I don't buy it.

sargenet
07-18-2011, 09:25 PM
She wasn't that far from the table which was under the balcony. So he could have cut her down and then brought her out to the grass....but I thought the emergency personnel tried to save her? Or did they walk in...take her pulse and then call the cops?

I think it is hard to see the balcony in the ariel photos. It only sticks out about a foot from the wall and has a railing about 3ft high..... the table was placed right under it and was on the sidewalk...

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 09:25 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw that. If you're cut you fall straight down right? Now perhaps she bounced off the table and that's why she's in that position. But IMHO she's too far from the balcony if he cut her down (assuming he cut her down from the balcony).

It's all so very odd. I think the SD/OC sleuthers need to go pay a visit to the crime scene to figure it out. Too bad we couldn't get in.

Mel

Yeah. If you're 120 lbs (or whatever) of dead or nearly dead weight, you're not going to float to another part of the yard. So he either carried her, which...why would you do that, or something else happened.

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 09:27 PM
Unless he held on to her somehow as he cut her down (with what? where did he find the tool he used to cut her down with? how long did the finding of the cutting instrument take?) and then carried her over. Maybe he stood on the table as he did that. I just don't see how anyone is that coordinated/strong, but I guess it could be.

Melanie
07-18-2011, 09:27 PM
I'm glad this case is getting some attention:

Authorities would not say how his fall and the discovery of the hanging body might be connected but said the boy’s reported accident needs to be looked at in light of the death of Rebecca M. Zahau, 32.

The boy fell inside the Ocean Boulevard house on July 11 and was taken to Rady Children’s Hospital, where he died Sunday. Zahau’s body was found bound and hanging from a rear balcony two days later.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/18/death-of-shacknai-boy-sparks-investigation/

Since LE won't tell us how the fall occured, I can only speculate what happened to little Max.

My thoughts are with them tonight --

Mel

anyoldtime48
07-18-2011, 09:30 PM
That is the question. I have read a few reports saying she was in "distress". Based on the photos I think the brother probably pulled that table under the balcony and that is how he got her down. She would have fell if he cut her down and landed where she did in the courtyard....if he would have run up into the bedroom and cut her down she would have fell and she might have been injured more.

Maybe by pulling the table under her he thought he could cut the cord and catch her. He actually might have and carried her to the area where the photo shows her body...

It will be interesting to see if the items they took show a struggle in the bedroom....

clarified in the initial press conference. Presumed dead by lE, but they performed CPR anyway until EMT arrived and called it. Apparently Adam called 911 and may have used the term "in distress".

Easy to see a body hitting that table and bouncing off it and landing a few feet away if he did indeed cut her down from above.

PRESSER, worth watching all 21:58 minutes --

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=6051226&redirected=true

Melanie
07-18-2011, 09:31 PM
Nah. Why would you do that? Why not just lie her down where she is and start CPR or make the call? I don't buy it.

Why would anyone pick up a victim and carry them a couple of feet? Just like everything else - this makes no sense to me. I guess I'd have to hear how he cut her down (from atop the balcony, or from below)? Where was the table, etc. Did he try to break her fall? Did he fall too?

Where is the police report -- arghhhh!

MOO

Mel

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 09:32 PM
Awww Pfingst is goooood. He was the DA when I lived in San Diego.

Me too. I lived there from 88-03. I think Dumanis had just been elected shortly before we moved. Wasn't he part of the total smear campaign for her - about her sexuality and suicide attempt?

But I viewed his change to defense as a sell out. In it for the $ only. How could someone go from the DA to defense atty? Do you know, has he had any high profile cases that he has won?

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 09:36 PM
Me too. I lived there from 88-03. I think Dumanis had just been elected shortly before we moved. Wasn't he part of the total smear campaign for her - about her sexuality and suicide attempt?

But I viewed his change to defense as a sell out. In it for the $ only. How could someone go from the DA to defense atty? Do you know, has he had any high profile cases that he has won?

I lived there from 78-02. My hometown. One thing I thought about. The hospital where Max died (Rady Childrens) is about 20 minutes from the house.

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 09:40 PM
Funny thing about the press conference....it was repeatedly stated that this is an "isolated incident". I think it's a given that there isn't women naked and swing from ropes with hands bound behind their backs all over the county!

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 09:42 PM
But I viewed his change to defense as a sell out. In it for the $ only. How could someone go from the DA to defense atty? Do you know, has he had any high profile cases that he has won?

Paul Pfingst prosecuted David Westerfield.

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 09:42 PM
I lived there from 78-02. My hometown. One thing I thought about. The hospital where Max died (Rady Childrens) is about 20 minutes from the house.

I am guessing Rady Children's Hospital is the (newly named) children's hospital off of the 805 (next to Mary Birch (?) maternity hospital)? Depending on traffic, it could be a lot longer than 20 mins as well.

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 09:42 PM
Funny thing about the press conference....it was repeatedly stated that this is an "isolated incident". I think it's a given that there isn't women naked and swing from ropes with hands bound behind their backs all over the county!

Well that's a relief! Whew!

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 09:43 PM
Paul Pfingst prosecuted David Westerfield.

Yes, I remember the Danielle Van Dam case. I mean as a private practice defense atty - has he had much success.

I liked him as the DA. Had no problem with him at all.

Quester
07-18-2011, 09:46 PM
Paul Pfingst prosecuted David Westerfield.

OMG!! Help me to wrap my brain around this one, please. You mean to tell me that after viewing what Westerfield's defense attorneys did in that case, Pfingst became a defense attorney?

WOW! Just Wow!

Melanie
07-18-2011, 09:47 PM
Paul Pfingst prosecuted David Westerfield.

He moved over to the dark side ;) He went to the house to see if he could defend someone - as I read it.

This is an interesting statement:

It is also a fact that former San Diego County District Attorney Paul Pfingst, now in private legal practice, was seen at the property last week, and has admitted being retained by an unnamed person, other than Jonah Shacknai.

The brother?

MOO

Mel

http://www.examiner.com/news-analysis-in-national/son-of-millionaire-is-second-to-die-coronado-mansion

Melanie
07-18-2011, 09:49 PM
OMG!! Help me to wrap my brain around this one, please. You mean to tell me that after viewing what Westerfield's defense attorneys did in that case, Pfingst became a defense attorney?

WOW! Just Wow!

Yes. He's not the most popular guy in town. After Westerfield, I never thought I'd see the day. Especially after dealing with Feldman.

BrownRice
07-18-2011, 09:50 PM
OMG!! Help me to wrap my brain around this one, please. You mean to tell me that after viewing what Westerfield's defense attorneys did in that case, Pfingst became a defense attorney?

WOW! Just Wow!

I guess it happens quite a bit (go from public to private), but it blows my mind. And Westerfield is a prime example. He was such a disgusting, scary man (who looked like the epitome of a professional, educated, successful man). How could Pfingst move over to that? And of course, innocent until proven guilty, :puke::puke::puke:

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 09:51 PM
Yes, I remember the Danielle Van Dam case. I mean as a private practice defense atty - has he had much success.

I liked him as the DA. Had no problem with him at all.

I will say this...his office was super good at collecting child support from deadbeat dads!

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 09:52 PM
He moved over to the dark side ;) He went to the house to see if he could defend someone - as I read it.

This is an interesting statement:

It is also a fact that former San Diego County District Attorney Paul Pfingst, now in private legal practice, was seen at the property last week, and has admitted being retained by an unnamed person, other than Jonah Shacknai.

The brother?

MOO

Mel

http://www.examiner.com/news-analysis-in-national/son-of-millionaire-is-second-to-die-coronado-mansion

Rebecca?

sargenet
07-18-2011, 09:54 PM
Saw a close up photo on ABC news out of Phoenix (abc15.com). It was still blurred but I was able to see the orange extension cord. Also...she was a foot or two away from the table which was on the sidewalk UNDER the balcony. So he really didn't move her. If he had used the table to cut her down then it would make sense that when he lowered her to the ground he left her right next to the table....

That balcony is pretty darn high....

http://www.dndb.info/featured18-1-2.htm. Look through the photos from the 80s and you will see it in the left hand corner.

Quester
07-18-2011, 09:55 PM
He moved over to the dark side ;) He went to the house to see if he could defend someone - as I read it.

This is an interesting statement:

It is also a fact that former San Diego County District Attorney Paul Pfingst, now in private legal practice, was seen at the property last week, and has admitted being retained by an unnamed person, other than Jonah Shacknai.

The brother?

http://www.examiner.com/news-analysis-in-national/son-of-millionaire-is-second-to-die-coronado-mansion

Rebecca?

Dina ????

CuriousHousewife
07-18-2011, 10:03 PM
If you hire an attorney for, say, your child...is your child the client or are you?

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 10:04 PM
Dina ????


IMO The brother

Linda7NJ
07-18-2011, 10:18 PM
http://news.lalate.com/2011/07/18/rebecca-nalepa-clues-may-rest-in-courtyard-table/

Ok...the brother cut her down, moved her to the grass and laid her FACE DOWN? WTH?:waitasec:


"On that brick path appeared a wooden table. Nalepa was just inches from the table, laying face down in the grass. It remains unclear how Nalepa got from the alleged hanging state on the balcony, down to the courtyard, next to the table."

Quester
07-18-2011, 10:19 PM
It will be interesting and probably very telling to hear what kind of knots were used to bind the wrists, ankles and on the noose.

If the brother works on/around a tugboat as has been reported, he probably knows quite a few specialty knots.

Also, if the wrists and ankles were bound with orange electrical cord, typically that cord is very thick, if it's the contractor type cord, and therefore difficult to knot. The cords are also typically very long, so was probably cut into short lengths and probably requires special snippers to cut it (not your average household scissors). And, the cord and snippers would most likely be stored in the detached garage/guesthouse building on the property and not in the home.

Where was the brother staying again? Yep - guesthouse.

Invisible
07-18-2011, 11:23 PM
sit down and do it ;) Then hop to balcony

OK...I did try it and I did do it...thanks to Pilates & yoga, which I have been taking for a while. I think it can be done.

sdcali
07-18-2011, 11:23 PM
Also, if the wrists and ankles were bound with orange electrical cord, typically that cord is very thick, if it's the contractor type cord, and therefore difficult to knot. The cords are also typically very long, so was probably cut into short lengths and probably requires special snippers to cut it (not your average household scissors)


That is what I was thinking too...the cord would be difficult to tie knots in. Yet there was rope used around her neck? why not use rope for both? Just too many unanswered questions to both deaths.

If it turns out that there is something suspicious about Max's death, would it have ever been investigated if it had not been for Rebecca's death? LE waited for him to pronounced before opening their investigation....

sorrell skye
07-18-2011, 11:34 PM
Captain Tim Curran confirms that Rebecca was last seen alive on Tuesday evening by AS, and that as far as he knows, Rebecca and AS were the only ones @ the residence on Tuesday night.

He also says that the circumstances are "bizarre" and "unusual", but suicide is a possibility, even though her hands and feet were bound, and the way she was found.

He confirms that the balcony was off of a 2nd story bedroom (10-15 feet high).

Captain Tim Curran will not comment on:

1) whether or not there were any signs of a struggle in the upstairs bedroom

2) whether or not the bedroom was Rebecca's bedroom

3) items found during the search warrant

4) what the rope was "anchored to inside" (Capt. Curran's words)

According to Captain Curran, the scene has been released to the family.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=6051226&redirected=true

TexasLori
07-18-2011, 11:40 PM
Authorities would not say exactly how the two incidents may be connected, but said the boy's reported accident needs to be looked at in light of the death of Rebecca M. Zahau, 32.

Investigators believe Zahau's death was either a homicide or a suicide, Frank said.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/18/death-of-shacknai-boy-sparks-investigation/



Though I'm having a hard time believing any type of suicide theory...

She was very shaken up by Max's condition earlier... then she sounded perfectly okay at midnight, then a few hours after sounding perfectly okay, she turns up dead?

It isn't uncommon for people to become happier before they commit suicide... because they have made the decision to do it...

I do believe that is the only thing I've seen to point at all towards suicide.



If it is true that Dina was in the home... I wonder if maybe she and Rebecca got into a fight and Max got knocked off the stairs in the confusion?

While I believe you are right, to me that doesn't fit this scenario. When someone becomes happy after deciding to commit suicide, it is usually after a prolonged period of depression or other factors. In a case like this, suicide would probably come out of extreme guilt and mourning, which wouldn't likely subside with the decision to kill oneself.

But I agree with you that it doesn't sound like suicide anyway. :)

TexasLori
07-18-2011, 11:43 PM
I know - I get the same thing. If Maxie went to Sharp Coronado, no one is saying. Would they transfer a child in such critical condition, or take him straight to the nearest critical care unit for children. If they did transfer him, it should have been by copter - IMHO.

I think he went straight to Rady's myself.

MOO

Mel

Quite possible. When my brother was in a car accident and sustained a major head injury, the paramedics decided to take him to a hospital that was further away than two others, but had a very strong reputation in head trauma cases.

Invisible
07-18-2011, 11:44 PM
The brother lawyered up...right? I'm thinking he's lookin pretty good right now and LE is crossing the T's and dotting their I's before an arrest is ever made.

Someone from that family lawyered up.