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Salem
07-24-2011, 12:57 PM
Please continue here.

Thread 1

Thread 2


ALSO - please remember, we do NOT sleuth minors, we do NOT post identifying information about minors, we do NOT name minors.

If a minor is a victim or has been publically named by LE as a perp, then their name may be used. In this particular case, the ONLY minor that may be identified by name is Max, because he was a victim. ALL other minors are OFF THE TABLE.

This is a strict rule and your cooperation is appreciated.

Thanks,

Salem

ETA: Further explanation on minor names. Even when quoting from MSM or other sources, if the minor is not the victim or the perp, we change the name to initials. We do NOT quote the name of the minor. This is to protect the minor. Please keep that in mind. Try to put yourself in the shoes of the parent of that minor. What would you think if your child's name was splattered all over the web.

Thanks Guys!

Quester
07-24-2011, 01:07 PM
Originally Posted by Wise Old Owl (from last thread)
Do we have any confirmation as to whether it was a "painting" or a "mirror" that was taken by LE? I've seen the pic of them carrying out what looks to me as a door - but I do think that is what is being referenced.

Either way - that piece is covered with a white sheet. So, I'm wondering if something was scribbled on either the mirror or painting. Was it a painting of RN or JS and family and someone "X'd" somebody out? Lots of crime have writing left on mirrors - which was my first thought - lipstick on the mirror thing ya know? And whatever it was - LE had it covered for a reason.

Has me going hhhmmmm........................
Thanks

They have been hauling evidence from the mansion, including a large painting, a table with a broken leg and a bag of other unknown items.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/crime/girlfriend-found-bound-with-cord-in-shacknais-mansion-07142011

"Large painting" - and it is very curious as to why they took it and what was on it.

scorekeeper
07-24-2011, 01:11 PM
Do we have any confirmation as to whether it was a "painting" or a "mirror" that was taken by LE? I've seen the pic of them carrying out what looks to me as a door - but I do think that is what is being referenced.

Either way - that piece is covered with a white sheet. So, I'm wondering if something was scribbled on either the mirror or painting. Was it a painting of RN or JS and family and someone "X'd" somebody out? Lots of crime have writing left on mirrors - which was my first thought - lipstick on the mirror thing ya know? And whatever it was - LE had it covered for a reason.

Has me going hhhmmmm........................

bring from previous thread - above post by Wise Old Owl

As usual with the case, information changes....have heard both reports..mirror or picture...

mirror - may be broken/written on ---suicide message ----or warning written if homicide

picture - if vandalized - could have meaning/message for both homicide or suicide.......

I have a question about the "doggy daycare" guy.....

did he pick the dog up at the front door - was a table and/or chandelier missing from the entry way???????

MizStery
07-24-2011, 01:16 PM
This is a good chronological link for anyone needing a condensed review of events.(who doesn't this is hard to follow & complicated):sigh:

http://powerwall.msnbc.msn.com/politics/death-at-skin-care-moguls-estate-1695642.story

Quester
07-24-2011, 01:25 PM
Here are a couple of photos I hadn't seen before of the "table with a broken leg":


http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp310/Trainy_photos/hink/Capture3.jpg
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp310/Trainy_photos/hink/Capture3.jpg

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp310/Trainy_photos/hink/Capture4.jpg
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp310/Trainy_photos/hink/Capture4.jpg

Paladine
07-24-2011, 02:02 PM
DATED JULY 23/11:

Coronado Mayor Casey Tanaka said he was impressed by Shacknai's attitude. The Mayor wants it all to go away, imo.

"At no point did he threaten a lawsuit, at no point did he raise his voice – so to speak – or make threats or angry statements," said Tanaka.

The quiet city has been the focus of national attention for what Tanaka calls the tragedy at the Spreckels mansion. The attention is not the kind of attention any city wants. "We are just as curious as anyone about the circumstances and what happened but I think I can speak for most of Coronado when we are looking forward to this story not being a story anymore," said Tanaka.

http://www.10news.com/news/28645581/detail.html

He also said Jonah was easy to work with when it came to changes he requested be done to the mansion..affable, if you will.

But I also recall this perspective of the same event, as well, posted earlier, but I thought it beneficial to have both perspectives in one post. And 'cause there's no new news...;)

Many locals were perturbed by Shacknai’s seeming eagerness to challenge rules he had agreed to. “I thought he was as arrogant as hell,” said Jeff Alison, a neighbor who attended City Hall meetings on the proposed renovations. “It was his way or the highway.”

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/16/spreckels-mansion-owner-described-go-getter/


I also picked up this vantage point pic of the stairwell that includes a chandelier (MIGHT be on first thread, cannot recall where) from the above link, taken in 2006, home was bought by jonah in 2008, per link.

kljohnson0458
07-24-2011, 02:06 PM
Here are a couple of photos I hadn't seen before of the "table with a broken leg":


http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp310/Trainy_photos/hink/Capture3.jpg
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp310/Trainy_photos/hink/Capture3.jpg

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp310/Trainy_photos/hink/Capture4.jpg
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/pp310/Trainy_photos/hink/Capture4.jpg

Do you think this table looks outdoorish like from the courtyard? Now that makes me sick to my stomach if true like she could have landed on it.

Quester
07-24-2011, 02:09 PM
Do you think this table looks outdoorish like from the courtyard? Now that makes me sick to my stomach if true like she could have landed on it.

I believe this table IS from the courtyard.

The "table with a broken leg" that was under the balcony.

jjenny
07-24-2011, 02:10 PM
I believe this table IS from the courtyard.

The "table with a broken leg" that was under the balcony.

Looks to be a very flimsy plastic thing to me.

Quester
07-24-2011, 02:12 PM
Looks to be a very flimsy plastic thing to me.

Looks to me to be weathered teak.

Wise Old Owl
07-24-2011, 02:14 PM
Looks to me to be weathered teak.
me too - VERY weathered as a matter of fact.

Morag
07-24-2011, 02:25 PM
Somewhere, on these threads, there is a film clip of a reporter standing outside the mansion while investigators are inside- and the (current) chandelier can be seen hanging in the area of the stairs. So it couldn't have fallen to the floor. I will go back and look for it as soon as I can - and as soon as my elderly laptop cools off and heals itself.

ETA
Haven't yet found the video I mentioned, but I did find this site that has a number of interesting pictures of the mansion:
http://www.luxist.com/2006/02/17/the-speckels-mansion-estate-of-the-day/

SunnieRN
07-24-2011, 02:41 PM
Ocean Blue Eyes, I am sorry for your families loss. It is so hard to accept suicide and I may very well be guilty of that.

In my friends case, she was home alon, with only her husband. There were three different version of events told. She was shot straight on in her face, into her nose. I do not see the possibility of suicide, based upon her work life, family life and her daughter and grandchildren, to whom she was VERY close. It doesn't add up, for more reasons than I can list here.

I have been following this case. Not being there, I of course have no true idea of what happened. I just find this death VERY suspicious. More so than my friends death. I can not see that a woman who is not a medical professional, committing suicide, even if she was responsible for the accident, prior to the childs actual demise. I also don't buy that she would have had a party that night and that the neighbor would have suddenly heard loud music at 1 am.

If she was in some way 'guilty' of hurting MS, then I could see her leaving, huding out even. She had family she could have turned to. If she chose to commit suicide, she I would think, would have done so privately. She was very Ameicanized. She didn't just come to America from Burma. None of this makes sense as a suicide.

Again, I am most sorry for your families loss and thank you for sharing it with us so we may somehow hope to understand this case better.

pferrin
07-24-2011, 02:57 PM
I talked to my brother about wheither or not Rebecca's body should have been covered or not ..I believe the temp was about 70 degrees that day..not positive..he responded that he would have had a tent put over her..not a sheet..cause even the lightest touch on a dead body can cause a mark. It is due to livor. Next I asked about evidence on the body being effected by sun exposure.. he said most evidence leaves a trace on the body..ie rope..fiber..fingerprints..not effected by sun.

He said because the body was nude and sitting in sun..speeds up decomp. Also with heli flying over ..would be better to put a tent over her.

scorekeeper
07-24-2011, 03:14 PM
I talked to my brother about wheither or not Rebecca's body should have been covered or not ..I believe the temp was about 70 degrees that day..not positive..he responded that he would have had a tent put over her..not a sheet..cause even the lightest touch on a dead body can cause a mark. It is due to livor. Next I asked about evidence on the body being effected by sun exposure.. he said most evidence leaves a trace on the body..ie rope..fiber..fingerprints..not effected by sun.

He said because the body was nude and sitting in sun..speeds up decomp. Also with heli flying over ..would be better to put a tent over her.

pferrin,

A great big :tyou: to you and your brother!!! He needs to come join us on WS!!

I think most of us thought at least a tent should have been erected (out of respect to all); don't remember anyone wanting her body covered by a sheet due to contaimination of evidence....

Carrington
07-24-2011, 03:14 PM
Why do we assume the music, was Rebecca's doing?
I don't think we have any idea of what Adam was up to that night.
Did he stay alone in the guesthouse, did he have company? Did he keep Rebecca company.
Also the sister calling at 12:00 AM and we assume she would put the call in CA time.
We don't know if Rebecca was a night person or day person.
We are in need of interviews and phone records.
Is it time for another clue yet?

I think the object was a painting because of the way LE carries it.
A mirror would be heavy. A few videos are posted.

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2011/07/14/20110714arizona-ceo-dead-woman-san-diego-mansion-shacknai.html

IMO

pferrin
07-24-2011, 04:09 PM
I do wish Rebecca's family would speak out again..but I know this is a difficult time for them.

scorekeeper
07-24-2011, 04:11 PM
Why do we assume the music, was Rebecca's doing?I don't think we have any idea of what Adam was up to that night.
Did he stay alone in the guesthouse, did he have company? Did he keep Rebecca company.
Also the sister calling at 12:00 AM and we assume she would put the call in CA time.We don't know if Rebecca was a night person or day person.
We are in need of interviews and phone records.
Is it time for another clue yet?

I think the object was a painting because of the way LE carries it.A mirror would be heavy. A few videos are posted.

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2011/07/14/20110714arizona-ceo-dead-woman-san-diego-mansion-shacknai.html

IMO

BBM

Loud music - suicide/RN - murder/the perp - time given was I think around 1 am......some think it was to cover-up sound of murder

Phone call from sister - could have been earlier if you go with time in CA

Also, does look like they are carrying a painting.......

Also, carried the 3-legged table.....

Definitely, time for another clue....this is frustrating because with info we have can be either suicide or homicide....:banghead::banghead:

elementry
07-24-2011, 04:12 PM
Looks like the tabloids will be taking the lead on ferreting out details on this one. National and local media have taken a big snooze. No new articles over the whole weekend. It appears the San Diego media has been instructed to stand down on this very hot story on their own doorstep. Surely there is more background on the central players to be uncovered if one were to ask around. And not one peep from anyone at the hospital? Even the neighbors seem to have shut themselves in and taken cover. At least it appears this way with the news blackout. So, it'll be left to the National Enquirers and such to get something out there while the SDSD patiently gets their ducks in a row. The Union Tribune seems to be one of the softest "hard news" establishments around. Although, maybe that's just laid back 'Cali style'. Lots of good cooking recipes in that rag though!

scorekeeper
07-24-2011, 04:15 PM
I do wish Rebecca's family would speak out again..but I know this is a difficult time for them.

I would love to hear from her ex-husband of what, 8 years?

I know they are grieving for both Maxie and RN....

Do we know if they have released her body to them?

I thought I read somewhere they were going to have a service in Missouri??

Paladine
07-24-2011, 04:26 PM
I believe this table IS from the courtyard.

The "table with a broken leg" that was under the balcony.

I read RUMOR somewhere in a comment on an article, or on a board, that a person had seen the police take that table from the house and then they photgraphed it outside, they wrote such in a comment on the article or forum (Justice***, maybe?), can't recall where; I've been roaming ;) Could it have been on the upper balcony? I do not put much faith in rumors, but they can be good starting points for sleuthing, imo.

I'm not saying it's true, Quester...I'm just saying it's a claim I've seen posted.

STEADFAST
07-24-2011, 04:27 PM
Looks like the tabloids will be taking the lead on ferreting out details on this one. National and local media have taken a big snooze. No new articles over the whole weekend. It appears the San Diego media has been instructed to stand down on this very hot story on their own doorstep. Surely there is more background on the central players to be uncovered if one were to ask around. And not one peep from anyone at the hospital? Even the neighbors seem to have shut themselves in and taken cover. At least it appears this way with the news blackout. So, it'll be left to the National Enquirers and such to get something out there while the SDSD patiently gets their ducks in a row. The Union Tribune seems to be one of the softest "hard news" establishments around. Although, maybe that's just laid back 'Cali style'. Lots of good cooking recipes in that rag though!

The thing about San Diego -- government, LE, newspapers, etc. -- it's all sort of like a huge Chamber of Commerce.

Paladine
07-24-2011, 04:37 PM
The thing about San Diego -- government, LE, newspapers, etc. -- it's all sort of like a huge Chamber of Commerce.

And it seems many have an interest in this story just going away....imo.

ETA an after thought: the elite PR comapny Shacknai hired....I wonder how often big PR companies throw a tidbit to media on a certain client to a publicaton so they will shhhush up about another client? Seems to me since that PR company was hired, about 3 days ago, all is so quiet.

Quester
07-24-2011, 04:38 PM
I read RUMOR somewhere in a comment on an article, or on a board, that a person had seen the police take that table from the house and then they photgraphed it outside, they wrote such in a comment on the article or forum (Justice***, maybe?), can't recall where; I've been roaming ;) Could it have been on the upper balcony? I do not put much faith in rumors, but they can be good starting points for sleuthing, imo.

I'm not saying it's true, Quester...I'm just saying it's a claim I've seen posted.

There was another table seen being carried from or to the property. It was a white, rectangular table. (see image #8 at link below)

Looked like a work table brought in by responders to help process the scene.

Could your referenced poster have confused the two tables?

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/photo_gallery/kswb-photos-nude-woman-found-dead-at-mansion-20110715,0,6503880.photogallery

ETA: I may have misread your post. The round table was taken from the property as evidence. The round table was from the courtyard in the backyard where the body was found.

justbetweenus
07-24-2011, 04:41 PM
[quote=Quester;6947523]Here are a couple of photos I hadn't seen before of the "table with a broken leg":


Thank-you for posting these pictures of the round table. I've been looking for them.

jjenny
07-24-2011, 04:51 PM
Quester, I don't throw tomatoes. Now I agree with your post, this is what could have happened. However, no way in he// will I believe she committed sucide in that manner. She was a very attractive woman, and I'm sure if she decided to do this she would not want her ex-lover to find her in such a grotesque manner. Pills would be my answer, never demeaning her looks.

Now take that darn raincoat off!! :crazy:

And who appears to have taken a great care of the way she looked and dressed based on her photos. And yet if she committed suicide, she was outside completely naked (most naked suicides occur indoors), and for whatever reason supposedly used extension cord to tie her arms and legs. Why cord? Surely if to prevent from grabbing a rope, a belt would suffice.
I just find it very hard to understand why a young woman would supposedly commit a suicide in such manner.

Quester
07-24-2011, 04:52 PM
And it seems many have an interest in this story just going away....imo.

ETA an after thought: the elite PR comapny Shacknai hired....I wonder how often big PR companies throw a tidbit to media on a certain client to a publicaton so they will shhhush up about another client? Seems to me since that PR company was hired, about 3 days ago, all is so quiet.

BBM - a la Gov. Arnold and his philandering / lovechild

Yes, agreed - the silence is deafening and very suspicious! IMO

scorekeeper
07-24-2011, 04:55 PM
There was another table seen being carried from or to the property. It was a white, rectangular table. (see image #8 at link below)

Looked like a work table brought in by responders to help process the scene.

Could your referenced poster have confused the two tables?

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/photo_gallery/kswb-photos-nude-woman-found-dead-at-mansion-20110715,0,6503880.photogallery

ETA: I may have misread your post. The round table was taken from the property as evidence. The round table was from the courtyard in the backyard where the body was found.

BBM
Picture # 8; they are carrying a white work table.......they do not have on gloves.......good catch!!

elementry
07-24-2011, 04:57 PM
And it seems many have an interest in this story just going away....imo.

ETA an after thought: the elite PR comapny Shacknai hired....I wonder how often big PR companies throw a tidbit to media on a certain client to a publicaton so they will shhhush up about another client? Seems to me since that PR company was hired, about 3 days ago, all is so quiet.

The Mayor seems clearly tied in with the PR firm. The one guy who seemed to speak out of school from LE, Carlson the retired detective, has likely also been told to clam up. Sure, patience is in order while hard fact is determined, but there's lots of fascinating background that could emerge, and eventually will emerge. As another poster mentioned, there hasn't even been an obit on Rebecca Nalepa.

And the lack of any condolence or anything from JS on his companion of 3 years' either murder or suicide kind of stinks. The only strategy I can see is that Team Shacknai is preparing to absolutely slam and blame Nalepa for all of this. thus, it would make some sense that Shacknai has nothing nice or sympathetic to say about her.

Paladine
07-24-2011, 05:09 PM
There was another table seen being carried from or to the property. It was a white, rectangular table. (see image #8 at link below)

Looked like a work table brought in by responders to help process the scene.

Could your referenced poster have confused the two tables?http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/photo_gallery/kswb-photos-nude-woman-found-dead-at-mansion-20110715,0,6503880.photogallery

ETA: I may have misread your post. The round table was taken from the property as evidence. The round table was from the courtyard in the backyard where the body was found.

RBBM

S/he just may have confused the two...just throwing it out there, Quester. You know how it is...you never know what may end up being relevant or not...

Carrington
07-24-2011, 05:11 PM
No one wants to be involved in a civil lawsuit, the one that is coming around the corner,
especially the neighbors.
Loyalty will remain with the money, the Shacknai family. I don't think anyone will care about RN, except her family.
It's just like no camera on site, un huh sure. Maybe not inside, but outside, not biting.
The doors have been slammed shut.

IMO

time
07-24-2011, 05:14 PM
BBM

Loud music - suicide/RN - murder/the perp - time given was I think around 1 am......some think it was to cover-up sound of murder

Phone call from sister - could have been earlier if you go with time in CA

Also, does look like they are carrying a painting.......

Also, carried the 3-legged table.....

Definitely, time for another clue....this is frustrating because with info we have can be either suicide or homicide....:banghead::banghead:


Given we are pretty sure there was loud music at 1 am (and not when Rebecca was found... what is the explanation that it was Rebecca (given she committed suicide)? My point is that it seems less likely she had on loud music for a while, turned it off, then committed suicide. She may have had music on loud, but I doubt it. I did see somewhere that LE is checking to see who else could have been in the house the night before.

Additionally, I said this earlier but it may have been missed by many. A poster on another forum had claimed that table under the balcony was put there at some point by LE and that it was not there originally. I think the poster said that given some footage she saw on the news. So, perhaps that table wasn't where we are all thinking it was - I can't valid this or provide a link, sorry, just thought I would pass it on.

Paladine
07-24-2011, 05:15 PM
The Mayor seems clearly tied in with the PR firm. The one guy who seemed to speak out of school from LE, Carlson the retired detective, has likely also been told to clam up. Sure, patience is in order while hard fact is determined, but there's lots of fascinating background that could emerge, and eventually will emerge. As another poster mentioned, there hasn't even been an obit on Rebecca Nalepa.

And the lack of any condolence or anything from JS on his companion of 3 years' either murder or suicide kind of stinks. The only strategy I can see is that Team Shacknai is preparing to absolutely slam and blame Nalepa for all of this. thus, it would make some sense that Shacknai has nothing nice or sympathetic to say about her.

RBBM

Agreed. They wouldn't want flowery, complementary statements from Team Shacknai (may I suggest, let's pick that term up here, I like it, it fits, imo, HIGH powered Team) or Jonah about Rebecca out there now to be used against them later...

THIS makes me even more sure they are in defense mode and rounding the wagons...this smells.

time
07-24-2011, 05:15 PM
I read RUMOR somewhere in a comment on an article, or on a board, that a person had seen the police take that table from the house and then they photgraphed it outside, they wrote such in a comment on the article or forum (Justice***, maybe?), can't recall where; I've been roaming ;) Could it have been on the upper balcony? I do not put much faith in rumors, but they can be good starting points for sleuthing, imo.

I'm not saying it's true, Quester...I'm just saying it's a claim I've seen posted.

Oops... hadn't read far enough. I just posted about this again.

time
07-24-2011, 05:27 PM
SunnieRN

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,189
I recently lost a co-worker. The cause of death, suicide, supposedly. I don't buy it in my friends case and I don't buy it in this one.

Yes, people can snap. People can have physical, emotional, psychotic episodes and these can lead to suicide. But, and this is a big BUT, there is often and usually, some indication of a problem.

When you have indications that someone is coping with life, they are living their lives in a manner that is normal for them, it is often, yep, even usually a good indication that they are rational. Rationality often causes people considering suicide to get help. Not always, of course, but often.

Rebeccas sister stating that she was fine, a few hours before this happened, then reports of loud music, tells me that someone wanted to do something at the house, without being heard. I do not in any way, shape or form, feel that this was a deliberate act, by Rebecca, to end her own life.

I could be entirely wrong, but it's a gut feeling. This one gives me the creeps and I really feel like someone is getting away with murder so far.

As for LE being tight lipped, I say it is a good thing! This case doesn't need to be played out in the public. We've seen what happens too often, when a case becomes a public spectacle.

Good post Sunnie. I've had two suicides in my family. One, was before I was born, but the other we definitely knew my uncle had problems. He shot himself. No one had any questions about it. The other remains somewhat of a mystery. My partner's brother supposedly committed suicide, by my partner doesn't believe it was suicide. He found him in his house, but they never found the bullet that killed him. Still, it was ruled a suicide.

I agree with you that people who commit suicide almost always have some problems that others know about and have been going on for a while. The literature on suicide support this also. I believe the journal article being cited on 'naked suicide' said 95% have some form of mental illness.

Paladine
07-24-2011, 05:30 PM
And who appears to have taken a great care of the way she looked and dressed based on her photos. And yet if she committed suicide, she was outside completely naked (most naked suicides occur indoors), and for whatever reason supposedly used extension cord to tie her arms and legs. Why cord? Surely if to prevent from grabbing a rope, a belt would suffice.
I just find it very hard to understand why a young woman would supposedly commit a suicide in such manner.

I agree, jjenny. Nice to see eye-to-eye with you on a case, it makes life much easier, lol; you are one smart cookie, imo. ;)

Not suicide. Not nude, not with electrical cord, imo. Orange, heavy gauge, electrical cord should be kept in the garage, imo...I keep getting stuck on that.

I wonder if she ever made it to the hospital and if not, why not, she reportedly said she boarded the dog to do so?

ETA: and if her reason for 'suicide' was guilt over Maxie, why make it look like a twisted, violent murder and cause more grief? Who makes their own suicide look violent? What's the percentage of women who like pain before they off themselves? Especially women accustomed to a softer lifestyle? ALL my own ramblings...take with salt, or don't take at all. ;)

oceanblueeyes
07-24-2011, 05:32 PM
"Large painting" - and it is very curious as to why they took it and what was on it.

I am wondering if it was a large portrait of Jonah and Rebecca or it could have been one of Jonah, Rebecca and all the children.

Maybe it was slashed with a knife or something. Or maybe Rebecca was cut out of the portrait.

IMO

Paladine
07-24-2011, 05:40 PM
Oops... hadn't read far enough. I just posted about this again.

LOL, good. You never know when something will be valid...and you never know when someone else may post as well. Better too much, than not enough, imo. Other posters help pick it apart...it works.

I see we hang out in some of the same 'neighbourhoods, eh? ;) Cool....I love the internet...you never know what you'll find...only problem is it takes hours and I've been short on time, lately...topix boards seem quiet, too. The hush is deafening.

4Jacy
07-24-2011, 05:41 PM
Miss speculation here lol...I was thinking along the same theory as you Quester for a suicide. I also wondered if maybe in a moment of rage she had hit Maxi and he hit his head on something, but made it look like he had fallen downstairs. JS finds out from autopsy that no way would Max suffer the the head trauma from just falling downstairs. He calls her, she still denies, and he kicks her out. She is about to lose everything now, and possibly a manslaughter charge as well.

OMG, Just! [/B]] I had never thought of a scenario where Rebecca may have hurt Max in some way. If that did happen, as you suggested, and JS found out...well, just wow! I can seeing him coming home and killing her. And you're right, she divorced her husband, gave up her job, et al. She was also living the good life with JS in CA and AZ.

Still, I can't see this as a suicide. I'm going with murder at this point. :twocents:

Quester
07-24-2011, 05:42 PM
And who appears to have taken a great care of the way she looked and dressed based on her photos. And yet if she committed suicide, she was outside completely naked (most naked suicides occur indoors), and for whatever reason supposedly used extension cord to tie her arms and legs. Why cord? Surely if to prevent from grabbing a rope, a belt would suffice.
I just find it very hard to understand why a young woman would supposedly commit a suicide in such manner.

If suicide, and RN was angry at JS for whatever reason, the following could help explain the outside, nude, dramatic display.

Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes
... snipped for space ...

Anger and vengeance can be expressed by completing suicide while naked, especially when it is intended to traumatize a survivor. The shock of discovering a naked suicide inflicts an indelible, traumatic memory that can haunt a survivor for a lifetime.12 The person who completes suicide while naked may intend to add insult to a suicide survivor's already devastating injury.

http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240

oceanblueeyes
07-24-2011, 05:49 PM
I agree, jjenny. Nice to see eye-to-eye with you on a case, it makes life much easier, lol; you are one smart cookie, imo. ;)

Not suicide. Not nude, not with electrical cord, imo. Orange, heavy gauge, electrical cord should be kept in the garage, imo...I keep getting stuck on that.

I wonder if she ever made it to the hospital and if not, why not, she reportedly said she boarded the dog to do so?

ETA: and if her reason for 'suicide' was guilt over Maxie, why make it look like a twisted, violent murder and cause more grief? Who makes their own suicide look violent? What's the percentage of women who like pain before they off themselves? Especially women accustomed to a softer lifestyle? ALL my own ramblings...take with salt, or don't take at all. ;)

Actually the number one method for women who commit suicides is violent, imo.

They use a firearm.

What is the most common method of suicide?

Firearms are the most commonly used method of suicide for men and women, accounting for 60 percent of all suicides.

A male is more likely to follow through on a suicide while women more often attempts suicide and it will not be successful.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=84760

time
07-24-2011, 05:58 PM
LOL, good. You never know when something will be valid...and you never know when someone else may post as well. Better too much, than not enough, imo. Other posters help pick it apart...it works.

I see we hang out in some of the same 'neighbourhoods, eh? ;) Cool....I love the internet...you never know what you'll find...only problem is it takes hours and I've been short on time, lately...topix boards seem quiet, too. The hush is deafening.

I try to grab anything that looks valid since I can never find it later. I think that poster was on another board for a long time and I can't see they would make a comment like that lightly.

Yes, the silence is deafening. I'm standing on the fence as to whether that could be good/neccessary or the opposite. I'm sensing LE has a good reason for this ... hoping. The only problem is that without the public and journalists having access, then the time to seize the moment (for research and info) often passes.

Quester
07-24-2011, 05:59 PM
Actually the number one method for women who commit suicides is violent, imo.

They use a firearm.

What is the most common method of suicide?

Firearms are the most commonly used method of suicide for men and women, accounting for 60 percent of all suicides.

A male is more likely to follow through on a suicide while women more often attempts suicide and it will not be successful.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=84760

RE: the sentence I changed to red

Wow! That's shocking!

I was under the impression drugs were top of the list for women - less violent method.

oceanblueeyes
07-24-2011, 06:06 PM
I didn't know this but found it interesting.

Suicide is the second leading cause of death among people between the ages of 14 and 25 in the United States.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/13945-suicide/#ixzz1T3xlVrsa

How old was Rebecca?

IMO

Paladine
07-24-2011, 06:07 PM
Actually the number one method for women who commit suicides is violent, imo.

They use a firearm.

What is the most common method of suicide?

Firearms are the most commonly used method of suicide for men and women, accounting for 60 percent of all suicides.

A male is more likely to follow through on a suicide while women more often attempts suicide and it will not be successful.

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=84760

Here's another take from a reputable link, NIMH:

Are women or men at higher risk?
Suicide was the seventh leading cause of death for males and the fifteenth leading cause of death for females in 2007.1
Almost four times as many males as females die by suicide.1
Firearms, suffocation, and poison are by far the most common methods of suicide, overall. However, men and women differ in the method used, as shown below.1
Suicide by: Males (%) Females (%)
Firearms 56 30 Suffocation 24 21
Poisoning 13 40

Seems 30% of women choose a firearm...the other 70% choose something else...40% choose poisioning. http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-statistics-and-prevention/index.shtml

Wise Old Owl
07-24-2011, 06:07 PM
i didn't know this but found it interesting.

suicide is the second leading cause of death among people between the ages of 14 and 25 in the united states.

read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/13945-suicide/#ixzz1t3xlvrsa

how old was rebecca?

Imo
32 iirc

pferrin
07-24-2011, 06:07 PM
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/07/rebecca-nalepa-would-not-commit-suicide-jonah-shacknai-coronado-mansion think that this is interesting ...Mary Loehner..Rebecca's sis is planning a memorial for Rebecca..doesn't know if JS will be there. hmmmm

justbetweenus
07-24-2011, 06:09 PM
OMG, Just! [/B]] I had never thought of a scenario where Rebecca may have hurt Max in some way. If that did happen, as you suggested, and JS found out...well, just wow! I can seeing him coming home and killing her. And you're right, she divorced her husband, gave up her job, et al. She was also living the good life with JS in CA and AZ.[/B]

[B]Still, I can't see this as a suicide. I'm going with murder at this point. :twocents:

I agree, I don't either Jacy.

oceanblueeyes
07-24-2011, 06:10 PM
RE: the sentence I changed to red

Wow! That's shocking!

I was under the impression drugs were top of the list for women - less violent method.

Me too. I have noticed in recent years women are using firearms more and more to kill themselves with but I just thought that happen to be the case on the articles I happen to see/read.

Using drugs to kill themselves with now comes in second it seems.

IMO

MizStery
07-24-2011, 06:11 PM
I have been puzzling over the report that there was a "disturbance" at DS home the day of Max's injury.Also in the following story it is mentioned that the kennel owner said RN mentioned her daughter was also injured.This is from 'death by 1000 paper cuts' there is a link at the end of my post.

According to a report from local CBS 8 affiliate, neighbors reported a ‘police disturbance’ at Dina Shacknai’s home on the day of Max’s accident. Missing from the report, when the ‘disturbance’ occurred?

According to several news reports, the police confirmed there was an unidentified ‘woman’ in the Jonah Shacknai home with Rebecca when Max’s accident occurred. According to a report from Radar, the ‘woman’ was Rebecca’s 13-yr-old sister.

And yet there’s the rather curious report from the Coronado Patch of a conversation Rebecca had with a kennel owner the day before her death:

Ted Greenberg was one of the last people to see Rebecca Nalepa (Zahau) alive.

She had called his kennel, Camp Diggity Dogs, to pick up Ocean, the family’s 14-month-old Weimaraner the afternoon following the Monday accident that left her boyfriend’s son with serious injuries.

“She asked us to come get the dog, because she wanted to get to the hospital to see her child,” Greenberg said. “I understand it’s (her boyfriend’s) son, but I guess she thought of him as hers.”

“She called about 4:40 pm,” he said. “She told me about the accident and said that her daughter was also injured.”

There’s no info Rebecca Zahau had a daughter. According to the kennel owner Rebecca referred to Max as ‘her son’. Was Rebecca referring to one of Jonah Shacknai’s daughters, daughters who were purportedly staying with Jonah and Rebecca during the summer?

The rather curious reports from the neighbors of a ‘party’ in the mansion the night before Rebecca’s body was discovered hanging from a balcony. According to the report from Radar, Radar ‘confirmed’ there wasn’t a party, but there may have been ‘loud music’

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2011/07/rebecca-zahau-death-authorities-seal-records-push-suicide-meme/

oceanblueeyes
07-24-2011, 06:11 PM
32 iirc

Thank you so much. For a minute my mind went blank:crazy:. She looked quite young to me.

IMO

oceanblueeyes
07-24-2011, 06:15 PM
Here's another take from a reputable link, NIMH:



Seems 30% of women choose a firearm...the other 70% choose something else...40% choose poisioning.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-statistics-and-prevention/index.shtml

Im confused. 30% of women choose a firearm
70% choose something else.
40% choose poisoning.

140%?:waitasec:

They use poisonings? :waitasec:

Can you even remember a case where a woman poisoned herself? I cant.

Wouldnt there be more deaths of women if they used poisonings?

Most suicides occur in the home between the hours of 3 p.m. and midnight. There are 30 to 50 times as many attempted suicides as completed suicides. Four times as many males complete suicide than females, but female teens attempt suicide twice as frequently as male teenagers.


Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/13945-suicide/#ixzz1T41MWIvj

Paladine
07-24-2011, 06:20 PM
Im confused. 30% of women choose a firearm
70% choose something else.
40% choose poisoning.

140%?:waitasec:

They use poisonings? :waitasec:

I jumbled it, somewhat...from the link, it's clear.

Suicide by: Males (%) Females (%)
Firearms 56 30
Suffocation 24 21
Poisoning 13 40


My point is firearms is not the most used method by women. Only 30% choose a gun. 70% choose something else...and the most used method is poisoning at 40%. http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-statistics-and-prevention/index.shtml

ETA: I sense you have some confusion about what poisonings are?

A poison is any substance that is harmful to your body. You might swallow it, inhale it, inject it or absorb it through your skin. Poisons can include

Prescription or over-the-counter medicines taken in doses that are too high
Overdoses of illegal drugs
Carbon monoxide from gas appliances
Household products, such as laundry powder or furniture polish
Pesticides
Indoor or outdoor plants
Metals such as lead and mercury
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/poisoning.html

Curious Me
07-24-2011, 06:25 PM
"Danielle Steel, the best-selling writer who owns the other Spreckels mansion, the one built by Adolph Spreckels in San Francisco, would be hard-pressed to conjure up a meatier hook for a mystery novel."

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/24/aftermath-coronado-mansion-deaths-some-it-noir/

Melanie
07-24-2011, 06:36 PM
"Danielle Steel, the best-selling writer who owns the other Spreckels mansion, the one built by Adolph Spreckels in San Francisco, would be hard-pressed to conjure up a meatier hook for a mystery novel."

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/24/aftermath-coronado-mansion-deaths-some-it-noir/

Thanks for that. I opened the Sunday paper (SD Union Tribune) this morning and was surpised this story was not on the front page. I couldn't find anything (must have missed this).

I think the reporting has slowed way down until we hear more from the DNA results.

The waiting is hard --

Mel

Paladine
07-24-2011, 06:38 PM
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/07/rebecca-nalepa-would-not-commit-suicide-jonah-shacknai-coronado-mansion think that this is interesting ...Mary Loehner..Rebecca's sis is planning a memorial for Rebecca..doesn't know if JS will be there. hmmmm

IMO, I am so happy she is keeping her sister in the news...I am so afraid something nefarious could be so easily swept under the rug with this amount of money and power involved. Thanks for the link.

oceanblueeyes
07-24-2011, 06:43 PM
I jumbled it, somewhat...from the link, it's clear.

Suicide by: Males (%) Females (%)
Firearms 56 30
Suffocation 24 21
Poisoning 13 40


My point is firearms is not the most used method by women. Only 30% choose a gun. 70% choose something else...and the most used method is poisoning at 40%. http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-statistics-and-prevention/index.shtml

ETA: I sense you have some confusion about what poisonings are?


http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/poisoning.html

I did misunderstand. I thought it meant they drank liquid draino or such. I see they are using the word poisoning instead of 'drugs'. Sorry.

Here is a statistic in 2004

U.S. Suicide Statistics (2004)
Suicide Methods by Gender
Method Men Women
Men - Percent of Total Men - Number of Suicides (25,566 total)
Women - Percent of Total Women - Number of Suicides (6,873 total)

Firearms: Men: 56.8% 14,523 Women: 32.4% 2,227
Hanging, strangulation, suffocation: Men: 23.4% 5,980 Women: 19.7% 1,356
Poisons Men: 12.5% 3,200 Women: 37.8% 2,600
All other methods Men: 7.3% 1,863 Women: 10.0% 690

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PyHQrIkHYAIJ:www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html+female+hanging+suicides%3F&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

Quester
07-24-2011, 06:45 PM
My hinky meter is up high on DS right now - I'm going out on a limb here.

Would DS have checked herself into a psych facility? Either with good reason or future defense reasons?

This could explain why a certain defense attorney may have been forbidden to talk to his client at the moment.

I'm curious that we've heard nothing about DS' whereabouts since the combined sorrow statement from JS & DS re MS.

No indication that DS returned to AZ for MS' funeral.

Something's going on.

Paladine
07-24-2011, 06:52 PM
I did misunderstand. I thought it meant they drank liquid draino or such. I see they are using the word poisoning instead of 'drugs'. Sorry.

Here is a statistic in 2004

U.S. Suicide Statistics (2004)
Suicide Methods by Gender
Method Men Women
Men - Percent of Total Men - Number of Suicides (25,566 total)
Women - Percent of Total Women - Number of Suicides (6,873 total)

Firearms: Men: 56.8% 14,523 Women: 32.4% 2,227
Hanging, strangulation, suffocation: Men: 23.4% 5,980 Women: 19.7% 1,356
Poisons Men: 12.5% 3,200 Women: 37.8% 2,600
All other methods Men: 7.3% 1,863 Women: 10.0% 690

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:PyHQrIkHYAIJ:www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html+female+hanging+suicides%3F&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

Thanks :)...my link was statistics from 2007. Even this link from 2004 shows firearms as being at 32.4% for women with poisoning at 37.8%...hanging, which includes strangulation and suffucation, sits at 19.7%, interestingly, enough...not such a popular choice, it would seem.

tiredblondy
07-24-2011, 06:55 PM
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/07/rebecca-nalepa-would-not-commit-suicide-jonah-shacknai-coronado-mansion think that this is interesting ...Mary Loehner..Rebecca's sis is planning a memorial for Rebecca..doesn't know if JS will be there. hmmmm


Wonder how that fits in with this-

According to this article, scroll down to the end, he is taking care of her funeral too. I assume that's what they meant when they say he is taking care of two funerals.

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/20...of-rebecca-na/ (http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/20...of-rebecca-na/)


I am still concerned that he has verbally expressed nothing about the loss of Rebecca's life!

Paladine
07-24-2011, 06:58 PM
My hinky meter is up high on DS right now - I'm going out on a limb here.

Would DS have checked herself into a psych facility? Either with good reason or future defense reasons?

This could explain why a certain defense attorney may have been forbidden to talk to his client at the moment.I'm curious that we've heard nothing about DS' whereabouts since the combined sorrow statement from JS & DS re MS.

No indication that DS returned to AZ for MS' funeral.

Something's going on.

RBBM

It certainly could. Great theory, imo. I also wondered if the client could be a minor and a parent could retain, yet, possibly restrict? Or another parent could restrict? Not sure on the legalities of that. I'm not saying the minor did any 'wrong', so to speak...but to watch out for the best interest of the child, during the investigation, who may have been present during Maxies accident/fall.

pferrin
07-24-2011, 07:05 PM
http://news.lalate.com/2011/07/24/rebecca-nalepa-murdered-rebecca-zahau-suffered-murder-staged-suicide-doctor/ forensic psychologist says he believes it is murder staged to look like suicide.

Carrington
07-24-2011, 07:17 PM
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/07/rebecca-nalepa-would-not-commit-suicide-jonah-shacknai-coronado-mansion think that this is interesting ...Mary Loehner..Rebecca's sis is planning a memorial for Rebecca..doesn't know if JS will be there. hmmmm

Wonder if her body has been released

IMO

justbetweenus
07-24-2011, 07:24 PM
My hinky meter is up high on DS right now - I'm going out on a limb here.

Would DS have checked herself into a psych facility? Either with good reason or future defense reasons?

This could explain why a certain defense attorney may have been forbidden to talk to his client at the moment.

I'm curious that we've heard nothing about DS' whereabouts since the combined sorrow statement from JS & DS re MS.

No indication that DS returned to AZ for MS' funeral.

Something's going on.

Very possible Quester. Concering the lawyer being sent away, did he come to the mansion and was forbidden from there? I'm thinking it would have been sealed off by then as a crime scene. Maybe he just came on his own thinking someone might be needing his service? I don't know. I hope we don't have to wait too long for answers. I need to clean my house lol

pferrin
07-24-2011, 07:33 PM
DS sister had been at the hospital ..could she be involved?

Quester
07-24-2011, 07:39 PM
DS sister had been at the hospital ..could she be involved?

Good point!

However, I would think that DS' sister would serve more-so as a voice of reason, a cooler head.

But, then again, who knows?

gngr~snap
07-24-2011, 07:41 PM
Hi guys. I'm headed back to the first thread to read about this case. I may answer myself, but before I forget...do I understand correctly she was reported to be hanging when found and when 911 got there she had been taken down?-

I question this because I would hope an autopsy would show whether she was srangled (force being applied inward)or hung where choking force would be in a more upward motion from body weight.

In nursing school I attended an autopsy of an older man who hung himself. When hey took the rope off :eek: I was shocked! His neck was the size if his ankle. Can't imagine a person could apply that kind of force. Perhaps she was choked to death and the rope /power cord was meant to hide it.
Her being bound may also prove to be done after the fact.
off to cathch up!

pferrin
07-24-2011, 07:48 PM
I'm not saying that DS sis did anything..I remember DS mom said that DS and her sis were both staying at the hospital. POI list is growing for me.

justbetweenus
07-24-2011, 07:48 PM
Who else do you think is involved and how?

At this moment (subject to change lol) I'm thinking someone we don't know/or should say haven't heard of yet. Someone that may be mad at JS and partially blame him too for Rebecca caring for Max.

Sometimes I do wonder about JS but then how many times do you hear of a husband/bf kill/hang their spouse and leave the body in the house? I think they would take her to the woods and hang her somewhere. If she was just simply hanged to make like a suicide, yes I could see that, but I'm thinking this death is more violent.

ETA. I should have added in my first par. that I believe it is someone from Dina's circle.

oceanblueeyes
07-24-2011, 07:52 PM
Thanks :)...my link was statistics from 2007. Even this link from 2004 shows firearms as being at 32.4% for women with poisoning at 37.8%...hanging, which includes strangulation and suffocation, sits at 19.7%, interestingly, enough...not such a popular choice, it would seem.

I guess it is all to do with perception. 1356 deaths due to hangings, ligatures and suffocations is a lot of lives lost imo.

It shows it isn't uncommon.

I just read that the suicide rate rose in 2008 but in 2009 it leveled off again.

It sure shows a lot of people commit suicide each year though. More than those who are murdered in our country yearly. That is terribly sad.

imo

Quester
07-24-2011, 07:55 PM
Hi guys. I'm headed back to the first thread to read about this case. I may answer myself, but before I forget...do I understand correctly she was reported to be hanging when found and when 911 got there she had been taken down?-

I question this because I would hope an autopsy would show whether she was srangled (force being applied inward)or hung where choking force would be in a more upward motion from body weight.

In nursing school I attended an autopsy of an older man who hung himself. When hey took the rope off :eek: I was shocked! His neck was the size if his ankle. Can't imagine a person could apply that kind of force. Perhaps she was choked to death and the rope /power cord was meant to hide it.
Her being bound may also prove to be done after the fact.
off to cathch up!

Hi gngr~snap,

Yes, to your first question. RN was discovered by AS who stated he cut her down, attempted some life-saving technique and called 911. Order?

When emergency personnel arrived she was, therefore, on the ground

Yikes on the neck – ankle comment.

We’ve talked about staged suicide – which it’s sounding more like this could be.

See you when you catch up!

Lawgirl
07-24-2011, 07:58 PM
IMO I don't think she would have done this herself. But I do believe she is involved.

Well this is interesting because the thought occurred to me that if AS was in the guest house and heard loud music coming from the house...wouldn't he have at least called the main house to make sure everthing is alright. I mean...they are mourning the child's condition in the hospital and I say mourning because he was brain dead. Did he simply chose to ignore the music/party and get back to sleep? If this is what is proposed, I would find it a bit hard to believe. If the neighbors heard it, then he must have heard it too. Maybe he knows more than he is telling so as to no incriminate anyone or even himself.

Carrington
07-24-2011, 08:01 PM
Why not just walk across the street to the ocean?
Seems so much easier, than this rigmarole.
IMO

oceanblueeyes
07-24-2011, 08:02 PM
Very possible Quester. Concering the lawyer being sent away, did he come to the mansion and was forbidden from there? I'm thinking it would have been sealed off by then as a crime scene. Maybe he just came on his own thinking someone might be needing his service? I don't know. I hope we don't have to wait too long for answers. I need to clean my house lol

I thought I just read an article here today that said LE would not let him enter the premises.

IMO

Lawgirl
07-24-2011, 08:06 PM
I thought I just read an article here today that said LE would not let him enter the premises.

IMO

And rightfully so. It's not fair that just because someone has tons of money to afford to "hit the ground running" with a lawyer that they should arrive at the scene of the crime and attempt to begin a defense...come on... wait for the evidence to be analyzed like everyone else.

Lawgirl
07-24-2011, 08:17 PM
I do wish Rebecca's family would speak out again..but I know this is a difficult time for them.

If her family comes out again, then maybe we can bring the spot light back to this case with the general media. Who knew PR firms did their job sooo dam well. It must be nice to be able to afford to manipulate the media like that... *sarcastic*

scorekeeper
07-24-2011, 08:21 PM
And rightfully so. It's not fair that just because someone has tons of money to afford to "hit the ground running" with a lawyer that they should arrive at the scene of the crime and attempt to begin a defense...come on... wait for the evidence to be analyzed like everyone else.

I remember reading it somewhere or saw it on TV but it is now recommended (by defense attorneys) that if anyone is "at the scene" of an alleged crime, they need to lawyer up and not talk to LE........is it a sales ploy????

I can remember talk on the H. Dunn link that BJD needed to get an attorney....

Money Girl
07-24-2011, 08:34 PM
Will never believe RN was a suicide.

Very wealthy people can put a hit on someone very easily.

justbetweenus
07-24-2011, 08:40 PM
Well this is interesting because the thought occurred to me that if AS was in the guest house and heard loud music coming from the house...wouldn't he have at least called the main house to make sure everthing is alright. I mean...they are mourning the child's condition in the hospital and I say mourning because he was brain dead. Did he simply chose to ignore the music/party and get back to sleep? If this is what is proposed, I would find it a bit hard to believe. If the neighbors heard it, then he must have heard it too. Maybe he knows more than he is telling so as to no incriminate anyone or even himself.

It wouldn't surprise me if it was Adam. Do we know for sure if he has gone home?

Lawgirl
07-24-2011, 08:43 PM
I remember reading it somewhere or saw it on TV but it is now recommended (by defense attorneys) that if anyone is "at the scene" of an alleged crime, they need to lawyer up and not talk to LE........is it a sales ploy????

I can remember talk on the H. Dunn link that BJD needed to get an attorney....

I suppose that makes sense now that I think of it. To want to enter the scene of the crime while they are still investigating all the evidence is a bit presumptious I think.

justbetweenus
07-24-2011, 08:43 PM
If her family comes out again, then maybe we can bring the spot light back to this case with the general media. Who knew PR firms did their job sooo dam well. It must be nice to be able to afford to manipulate the media like that... *sarcastic*

Exactly. We haven't heard anything from her family besides her sister's first and only statement.

IzzyBlanche
07-24-2011, 08:46 PM
And not one peep from anyone at the hospital?

[snipped]

I can field this one. Any hospital employee who comments about this (or any) case, either publicly or privately, without permission from Max's parents, is in violation of HIPAA privacy laws and at risk of being fired.

For that matter, any hospital employee who accesses Max's records out of curiosity, or otherwise without a legitimate reason, would face disciplinary action.

scorekeeper
07-24-2011, 08:46 PM
Meanwhile, Jonah has been interviewed "extensively and exhaustively by law enforcement, about Max's death, and Rebecca's. Jonah has been extremely cooperative with authorities," the source says. Adam was also interviewed by cops about Rebecca's death.

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/07/jonah-shacknai-brother-adam-house-comfort-after-son-max-death

Have we seen anywhere where DS has been questioned (above posts about possible hospital admission......)

Paladine
07-24-2011, 08:55 PM
The defense attorney showed up quickly...and "former two time district attorney" ?

Within hours of the discovery of Nalepa's body — as news helicopters circled overhead — attorney Paul Pfingst, former two-term district attorney, now one of the region's top criminal defense attorneys, showed up at the mansion. Pfingst would only say that he's been hired to represent someone in the case.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/19/local/la-me-mansion-deaths-20110719

I just hope justice, whatever that may be, is served where, and if, warranted. My gut feels sick over this one.

tiredblondy
07-24-2011, 08:58 PM
RUMOR ALERT....cannot find the reference where I saw it.

I went back last night and read through all the threads from the first through the end.
It was written the day after they found her. I was trying to find a comment under one of the articles that stated something about Rebecca. It was a rather bold statement that could be considered a rumor if I posted it.

Alas I could not find it but it basically said that " After 2 years she was getting ready to leave him because of his unfaithfulness and the reason she had stayed so long was because of her love for the kids". They spelled her name Rebakah.

It was a comment at an article that apparently has had all comments removed.

Paladine
07-24-2011, 09:00 PM
The best of the best, I'd venture to say....

Paul Pfingst rejoined Higgs Fletcher & Mack in 2003 after serving eight years as San Diego County District Attorney. He is recognized as one of San Diego's top trial lawyers. His successful prosecutions of San Diego's most serious criminal cases earned him a national reputation. He is the former President of the California District Attorneys Association and a former member of the Board of Directors of the National District Attorneys Association. In 2000, the United States Attorney General presented Mr. Pfingst with the coveted "William French Smith Award" for outstanding contributions to law enforcement. Mr. Pfingst has lectured extensively on trial technique and has contributed to a variety of legal publications.

Prior to his election in 1994, Mr. Pfingst was a Firm partner specializing in product liability, medical malpractice, professional licensing, and general litigation. Mr. Pfingst was the lead attorney for California physicians in the national breast implant litigation.

http://www.higgslaw.com/apg_a53_Paul_J_Pfingst.html

Paladine
07-24-2011, 09:04 PM
RUMOR ALERT....cannot find the reference where I saw it.

I went back last night and read through all the threads from the first through the end.
It was written the day after they found her. I was trying to find a comment under one of the articles that stated something about Rebecca. It was a rather bold statement that could be considered a rumor if I posted it.

Alas I could not find it but it basically said that " After 2 years she was getting ready to leave him because of his unfaithfulness and the reason she had stayed so long was because of her love for the kids". They spelled her name Rebakah.

It was a comment at an article that apparently has had all comments removed.

I've read rumors of rumors of unfaithfulness...can you get your head around that? ;) I was ASSUMING a happy relationship...but not so fast. We really do not know, imo...


And the comments being scrubbed is VERY interesting. It's like they are trying to stop commentors from communicating, imo. Remember Uncle Rick on Topix? I was there when he first posted and only a handful really believed it was him....but it was. Blogs, comment sections...that's how info in the digital age gets out. Gotta check twitter more often, I think.

Carrington
07-24-2011, 09:12 PM
RUMOR ALERT....cannot find the reference where I saw it.

I went back last night and read through all the threads from the first through the end.
It was written the day after they found her. I was trying to find a comment under one of the articles that stated something about Rebecca. It was a rather bold statement that could be considered a rumor if I posted it.

Alas I could not find it but it basically said that " After 2 years she was getting ready to leave him because of his unfaithfulness and the reason she had stayed so long was because of her love for the kids". They spelled her name Rebakah.

It was a comment at an article that apparently has had all comments removed.

BBM: I almost posted about this. Every site I have look at today, has had comments removed. Saying be the first to post a comment.
IMO

IzzyBlanche
07-24-2011, 09:15 PM
Quester, I don't throw tomatoes. Now I agree with your post, this is what could have happened. However, no way in he// will I believe she committed suicide in that manner. She was a very attractive woman, and I'm sure if she decided to do this she would not want her ex-lover to find her in such a grotesque manner. Pills would be my answer, never demeaning her looks.

Now take that darn raincoat off!! :crazy:

I totally agree. I could believe the scenario but for the so-called method of suicide.

Imagine (directed at readers in general, not Jacy) you make a snap decision to commit suicide. Would you know off the top of your head how to effectively hang yourself?

I know I wouldn't. I'd have to search the Internet to find out how to tie a noose!

Nor would it occur to me to bind my hands to defeat the self-preservation instinct. Granted, if I looked up how to tie a noose, this info might be included peripherally. (Sorry, I am not going to look this up just to see what comes up, as I find it too creepy. Anyone else want to, knock yourself out. No pun intended.)

But say hypothetically that RN did do such a search which also advised binding hands.

Why would she bind her ankles?

Sorry if the reason for this in a suicide scenario has already been discussed.

tiredblondy
07-24-2011, 09:15 PM
I've read rumors of rumors of unfaithfulness...can you get your head around that? ;) I was ASSUMING a happy relationship...but not so fast. We really do not know, imo...


And the comments being scrubbed is VERY interesting. It's like they are trying to stop commentors from communicating, imo. Remember Uncle Rick on Topix? I was there when he first posted and only a handful really believed it was him....but it was. Blogs, comment sections...that's how info in the digital age gets out. Gotta check twitter more often, I think.


And trust me I re-read every article referenced on the 3 threads and a few I'd found on my own way up into the wee hours of the am. It is rare one can't find something somewhere in Topix -there has been nothing I could find on this. There is a reason for this I think. Perhaps the sources could be sued or the police want to guarantee all is secure.

I just feel bad for Rebecca's family. The other person in her relationship for the last two years could express some type of condolences!!!- For me that speaks volumes!

tiredblondy
07-24-2011, 09:19 PM
And now I just want to vent....I am furious that the LE could not erect a tent over her body to shield it from those helicopters...How absolutely callous!!! They may have to leave the body uncovered but it could have been shielded from prying eyes.

I may write them about that. I've never seen that done before. They could have gotten one from any funeral home...I think that was mental cruelty to her family!

Wendy101
07-24-2011, 09:29 PM
BBM: I almost posted about this. Every site I have look at today, has had comments removed. Saying be the first to post a comment.
IMO

Amazing what money can do...:maddening:

Paladine
07-24-2011, 09:30 PM
A lengthy piece written by a former DA, etc...man, it's interesting. I dug it up while researching the criminal defense attorney...but, wow...what a read. I highly rec'd it. Did this fella, the defense attorney, leave the DA office under shameful circumstances? He was doing medical malpractic when he left, representing doctors, (see above link)...and there's more about him in this piece...

http://www.sandiegomagazine.com/core/pagetools.php?pageid=4192&url=%2Fmedia%2FSan-Diego-Magazine%2FAugust-2005%2FMike-Aguirre-Raging-Bull%2F&mode=print

IzzyBlanche
07-24-2011, 09:30 PM
Something just popped into my head, I think because Drano was mentioned.

I don't know where I heard this or when, but I do know it was a long time ago, possibly decades (!) so may no longer hold true. But it stuck in my head because I found it so interesting.

The statement was that women who commit suicide by drinking a caustic substance like Drano, drink it quickly through a straw because they don't want to mar their looks by drinking it out of a glass and having it damage their facial tissue.

The relevance here is that even suicidal women care about their looks.

So I agree with all the other posters who have stated that they don't believe RN, who looks immaculately groomed in all the photos we've seen of her, would choose to commit suicide in a manner with the potential to grotesquely mar her face.

Paladine
07-24-2011, 09:33 PM
I'm going to check my comments on articles, from now on, and many will I'm sure, and I'll go back to check to see if I see them scrubbed.

Paladine
07-24-2011, 09:43 PM
Former San Diego County District Attorney Paul Pfingst visited the Coronado home Wednesday night. He said that the family had been cooperating fully with investigators and that he was asked to help them in that effort.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/14/woman-found-dead-spreckels-mansion-identified/

Lawgirl
07-24-2011, 09:46 PM
And now I just want to vent....I am furious that the LE could not erect a tent over her body to shield it from those helicopters...How absolutely callous!!! They may have to leave the body uncovered but it could have been shielded from prying eyes.

I may write them about that. I've never seen that done before. They could have gotten one from any funeral home...I think that was mental cruelty to her family!

I agree...that was very callous..and highly highly insensitive.

Paladine
07-24-2011, 09:51 PM
question posted by commentor on an article:

"If it was a suicide, how do you climb over a balcony with your feet bound and your hands tied behind your back? There has to be someone else involved."

there are some comments here:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/14/woman-found-dead-spreckels-mansion-identified/

ETA: be sure to click 'load more comments' at the bottom....

IzzyBlanche
07-24-2011, 09:53 PM
A lengthy piece written by a former DA, etc...man, it's interesting. I dug it up while researching the criminal defense attorney...but, wow...what a read. I highly rec'd it. Did this fella, the defense attorney, leave the DA office under shameful circumstances? He was doing medical malpractic when he left, representing doctors, (see above link)...and there's more about him in this piece...

http://www.sandiegomagazine.com/core/pagetools.php?pageid=4192&url=%2Fmedia%2FSan-Diego-Magazine%2FAugust-2005%2FMike-Aguirre-Raging-Bull%2F&mode=print


I didn't read the whole article, but a few observations from a local:

Aguirre was considered a loose cannon by city employees very early on. As time went by, this perception began to be shared by SD population at large.

Pfingst is one of those love him or hate him people. From what I've read, he's done some things in his career that would wither under bright light, but then again, his office was able to convict David Westerfield in the child murder of Danielle Van Dam, all without him trying the case himself or appearing in the media at all, IIRC, except for a press conference soon after her remains were found.

JMO but if someone in this case felt the need to hire Pfingst? He/she/they anticipate trouble.

And no, I don't think he just showed up at the mansion looking for a case. I feel certain he has plenty of business that comes to him, without him going out seeking it.

elementry
07-24-2011, 09:55 PM
It wouldn't surprise me if it was Adam. Do we know for sure if he has gone home?

He's likely on a slow tugboat to China right now.


But really, no doubt he's been all lawyered up by Team Shacknai and secured in a "safe" location. I hope LE gave this guy a good grilling that first day when they had the chance, because the next time any interview will likely be monitored and circumscribed by a vigilant defense attorney.

tiredblondy
07-24-2011, 09:56 PM
question posted by commentor on an article:

"If it was a suicide, how do you climb over a balcony with your feet bound and your hands tied behind your back? There has to be someone else involved."

there are some comments here:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/14/woman-found-dead-spreckels-mansion-identified/


I guess she would have had to hop over to the rail then just fall over kinda like diving head first.:maddening:

time
07-24-2011, 10:00 PM
http://news.lalate.com/2011/07/24/rebecca-nalepa-murdered-rebecca-zahau-suffered-murder-staged-suicide-doctor/ forensic psychologist says he believes it is murder staged to look like suicide.

Thanks so much for the link, it's good to hear from an expert:

Second, women historically do not commit suicide by hanging, and rarely unclothed. In an interview with CBS News, Dr. Mark Kalish says that men typically commit suicide differently than women. Men, according Kalish, commit suicide violently. Women, however, typically “tend to be more passive in their suicide attempts. They prefer overdosing on pills and drowning, things like that.”

... He says that women rarely commit suicides by hanging and unclothed. ...

Kalish says that based upon three decades of experience he believes that Nalepa was murdered, a homicide staged to look like a suicide. His assertion ironically follows recent ironic comments by investigators. They assert that many suicides look like homicides, and many homicides look like suicides.

Quester
07-24-2011, 10:03 PM
question posted by commentor on an article:

"If it was a suicide, how do you climb over a balcony with your feet bound and your hands tied behind your back? There has to be someone else involved."

there are some comments here:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/14/woman-found-dead-spreckels-mansion-identified/

ETA: be sure to click 'load more comments' at the bottom....

BBM - Scuba diver style - sit backwards on the side of the boat (railing), fall/flipping backwards into the water (courtyard).

scorekeeper
07-24-2011, 10:03 PM
If her family comes out again, then maybe we can bring the spot light back to this case with the general media. Who knew PR firms did their job sooo dam well. It must be nice to be able to afford to manipulate the media like that... *sarcastic*

Something just popped into my head, I think because Drano was mentioned.

I don't know where I heard this or when, but I do know it was a long time ago, possibly decades (!) so may no longer hold true. But it stuck in my head because I found it so interesting.

The statement was that women who commit suicide by drinking a caustic substance like Drano, drink it quickly through a straw because they don't want to mar their looks by drinking it out of a glass and having it damage their facial tissue.

The relevance here is that even suicidal women care about their looks.

So I agree with all the other posters who have stated that they don't believe RN, who looks immaculately groomed in all the photos we've seen of her, would choose to commit suicide in a manner with the potential to grotesquely mar her face.

This is so weird.....Back in the earlly 70's my grandfather was in the hospital (I was a young girl, 10-12 ) and I remember sitting in the waiting room. There was a beautiful lady there - she had drunk drano - she had severe burns from her lower neck and down the front of her - OMG - she must have used a straw - because I remember thinking - why would such a beautiful and graceful lady want to kill herself......

elementry
07-24-2011, 10:04 PM
[snipped]

I can field this one. Any hospital employee who comments about this (or any) case, either publicly or privately, without permission from Max's parents, is in violation of HIPAA privacy laws and at risk of being fired.

For that matter, any hospital employee who accesses Max's records out of curiosity, or otherwise without a legitimate reason, would face disciplinary action.

Yes, makes sense. I understand the legalities. Still, a hard working reporter might be able to come up with something. Watch the National Enquirer pierce that shroud. Also, there are others besides employees at the hospital on any given day/night. And lower level employees might not have quite so much to lose, although I'm sure nobody wants to lose a job, no matter how menial. Did the parking garage attendant happen to see JS or DS leave in a rush? Would that fall under HIPAA laws, for instance?

askfornina
07-24-2011, 10:08 PM
This is so weird.....Back in the earlly 70's my grandfather was in the hospital (I was a young girl, 10-12 ) and I remember sitting in the waiting room. There was a beautiful lady there - she had drunk drano - she had severe burns from her lower neck and down the front of her - OMG - she must have used a straw - because I remember thinking - why would such a beautiful and graceful lady want to kill herself......

ahhh, i had never heard of this before. disturbing :(

Paladine
07-24-2011, 10:26 PM
Did we come up with a way she could tie her own hands behind her back? I can't recall...

OMG, hope no one searches my PC, I've googled and searched bondage discussions <the places a case will bring me> It doesn't appear to be an easy task and all references I've found say it takes practice. It seems to involve a 'cinch noose' (a type of hangmans knot) or a 'wrist coil' (a bondage tool, of sorts).

I googled about the 'cinch noose', which is also called a 'hangmans noose'....and found this:

A variation of this knot is used in fishing and is called the Uni-knot. It is used to tie fishing line to terminal tackle, join two pieces of line, or for snelling hooks. It is especially useful when used with slick braided line as more coils can be added to increase the friction of the knot and will not let the knot pull out. It is also useful in that the knot can be pulled down tight to the lure or it can be left with a larger loop that gives the lure more freedom of movement. The hangman's noose can also be used in boating to secure an eyelet on a rope or sheet without splicing it.

AS is a tugboat worker, iirc...the knots will tell the tale...I hope. Wonder how close AS and DS are...?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangman's_knot

gngr~snap
07-24-2011, 10:26 PM
BBM


Loud music - suicide/RN - murder/the perp - time given was I think around 1 am......some think it was to cover-up sound of murder

Phone call from sister - could have been earlier if you go with time in CA

Also, does look like they are carrying a painting.......

Also, carried the 3-legged table.....

Definitely, time for another clue....this is frustrating because with info we have can be either suicide or homicide....:banghead::banghead:

To me this is a BIG CLUE!!!!

Has anyone read "The Gift of Fear"?
by Gavin Debecker
exerpt:

... "He got up and got dressed, closed the window, looked at his watch. He promised he wouldn't hurt me, and that promise came out of nowhere. Then he went into the kitchen to get a drink, supposedly, but I heard him opening drawers in there. He was looking for a knife, of course, but I knew way before that." She pauses. "I guess he wanted a knife because using the gun would be too noisy."

... "Oh…I do know. I get it, I get it. Noise was the thing—that's why he closed the window. That's how I knew."

Since he was dressed and supposedly leaving, he had no other reason to close her window. It was that subtle signal that warned her, but it was fear that gave her the courage to get up without hesitation and follow close behind the man who intended to kill her....

Read more: http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/The-Gift-of-Fear-by-Gavin-de-Becker/4#ixzz1T4uE8tje

I'm gonna go out on a limb here... and say the music was used to cover any screams.-while she was being tied up in the event she was able to, gagged at the time?
If police did respond to the noise would they verify that the person opening thr was indeed a resident of the home?- say just turn it down?

Sounds like there might be a "scene" of some sort in the home.
What time is sunrise in Cali?
She could have turned it up but if she was suicidal, turning the music up would call attention to her. I would think it would summon the person staying in the guest house to see what was up. Someone contemplating their own death, and intending to execute it... I don't think they'd want any attn drawn to the residence.
The blue scarf sounds like her tho. I guess the Father might know it's meaning.. Is that why Korean Flight attendants wear blue? In case the plane goes down?
hmm:waitasec:

17933

17934
Can't imagine the father going to all that trouble in his grief.
The brother was there when MS was injured?
What was the relationship like between brothers I wonder...

sorry for long post.:seeya:

IzzyBlanche
07-24-2011, 10:43 PM
Yes, makes sense. I understand the legalities. Still, a hard working reporter might be able to come up with something. Watch the National Enquirer pierce that shroud. Also, there are others besides employees at the hospital on any given day/night. And lower level employees might not have quite so much to lose, although I'm sure nobody wants to lose a job, no matter how menial. Did the parking garage attendant happen to see JS or DS leave in a rush? Would that fall under HIPAA laws, for instance?


1. A hardworking reporter, even one for NE, will not be able to pierce that shroud unless he/she has the means to guarantee the blabbermouth hospital employee income for life. Because once said employee is fired for violating confidentiality laws, no other reputable health care organization will be apt to hire him or her.

Hospitals take HIPAA very seriously, to ridiculous extents even, according to articles I've read and my own personal experience when my mother was gravely ill and I was 1500 miles away trying to get information about her condition. (Thankfully, she recovered.)

2. "Others" being family members of other children in ICU, I doubt given their situation they paid much attention to anything except the status of their own intensely ill relative.

3. There's no parking garage attendant at Rady as far as I know. The hospital does, however, provide free valet parking, which I have no doubt someone in the social class as JS would unhesitatingly use. It would be quite interesting to access those records, I agree.

4Jacy
07-24-2011, 10:48 PM
RBBM

It certainly could. Great theory, imo. I also wondered if the client could be a minor and a parent could retain, yet, possibly restrict? Or another parent could restrict? Not sure on the legalities of that. I'm not saying the minor did any 'wrong', so to speak...but to watch out for the best interest of the child, during the investigation, who may have been present during Maxies accident/fall.

BBM
At this point why assume it was an "accident fall." There is too much at stake here. Something is very, very wrong!!

Paladine
07-24-2011, 10:52 PM
Watch the video at the bottom of this link, the FOX news video. The REASON Rebeccas body was NOT covered by a TENT? The reporter asked police why, the answer? Because the Police had to wait for a SEARCH WARRANT to go back in after the 'emergency' was dealt with! http://celebritydaily.net/scandals/meet-adam-shacknai-jonah-shacknais-brother/

IzzyBlanche
07-24-2011, 10:52 PM
To me this is a BIG CLUE!!!!

Has anyone read "The Gift of Fear"?
by Gavin Debecker



I have read it, several times in fact. Extremely insightful and valuable, and anyone concerned with his/her personal safety should read it.

Now to the loud music--where did the 1:00 a.m. time for the music come from? I have done search after search and have not been able to find it.

IzzyBlanche
07-24-2011, 10:59 PM
Watch the video at the bottom of this link, the FOX news video. The REASON Rebeccas body was NOT covered by a TENT? The reporter asked police why, the answer? Because the Police had to wait for a SEARCH WARRANT to go back in after the 'emergency' was dealt with! http://celebritydaily.net/scandals/meet-adam-shacknai-jonah-shacknais-brother/


I have seen the search warrant excuse also, and it makes no sense to me. I am not a legal professional but as far as I know, investigating a suspicious death with the corpse in view would not require a search warrant.

WS legal peeps, help me out.

Paladine
07-24-2011, 11:00 PM
[/B][/B]

BBM
At this point why assume it was an "accident fall." There is too much at stake here. Something is very, very wrong!!

I used a / ....between "accident/fall." It's my attempt at presenting a balanced, thoughtful view and not assuming. ;) I do not know which it was, at this point. (I'm referring to Max, of course.)

Rebecca....different story.

Now, HOW did he fall? I'm suspicious...but I don't know.

4Jacy
07-24-2011, 11:05 PM
I used a / ....between "accident/fall." It's my attempt at presenting a balanced, thoughtful view and not assuming. ;) I do not know which it was, at this point. (I'm referring to Max, of course.)

Rebecca....different story.

Now, HOW did he fall? I'm suspicious...but I don't know.

I'm very suspicious also, Paladine. However, my hinkey meter is way over the top. In my (not very humble opinion,) this was murder 101!!

Paladine
07-24-2011, 11:06 PM
I have seen the search warrant excuse also, and it makes no sense to me. I am not a legal professional but as far as I know, investigating a suspicious death with the corpse in view would not require a search warrant.

WS legal peeps, help me out.

Well, that's the excuse they are giving...yet, in the same video the Chief stresses how this investigation will ride on forensics!

This certainly needs to be answered for. Is it the search warrant excuse or are the police lieing? And why?

oceanblueeyes
07-24-2011, 11:08 PM
I have seen the search warrant excuse also, and it makes no sense to me. I am not a legal professional but as far as I know, investigating a suspicious death with the corpse in view would not require a search warrant.

WS legal peeps, help me out.

Even if the homeowner gives verbal permission LE always prefers to get a signed SW by a Judge. It protects any evidence they may find. So a defense attorney cant file a motion later to suppress it because they didn't have an official signed SW.

IMO

tiredblondy
07-24-2011, 11:08 PM
I have seen the search warrant excuse also, and it makes no sense to me. I am not a legal professional but as far as I know, investigating a suspicious death with the corpse in view would not require a search warrant.

WS legal peeps, help me out.

I agree. One of the articles had stated the warrant had been received and executed because LE were in the house after receiving the warrant and her body was outside. That was a canned excuse, in my humble opinion and a poor one.

Wendy101
07-24-2011, 11:14 PM
Huh? They needed a search warrant to cover her body with a tent??

Paladine
07-24-2011, 11:24 PM
Who Can Issue a California Search Warrant?
Although a search warrant is issued on behalf of the state (that is, by the prosecuting agency), the judge actually issues and signs it.3 The purpose of having a judge issue the warrant...instead of the police or a prosecutor...is to ensure that a neutral, detached individual evaluates the circumstances.4

But before the judge can sign off, two requirements must be met: the judge must reasonably believe (1) that a crime has been committed, and (2) that evidence of that crime is likely to be found in the place(s) described in the search warrant.5 If the facts presented in the warrant application are convincing, the judge must sign and issue the search warrant.6

http://www.shouselaw.com/search-warrants.html

So, the police go in, they asisst with the 'emergency' and leave, leaving Rebecca strewn naked, for all to see, across the lawn...while there, they see suspicious circumstances that fit the above criteria (or by law they wouldn't have gotten one), and apply for a search warrant... but why does that take so many hours? When, what time, did they get the warrant, anyone recall or have a link?

elementry
07-24-2011, 11:28 PM
Well, Rebecca's been laid to rest:


Woman found dead at Coronado mansion laid to rest


Posted: Jul 24, 2011 9:35 PM
Updated: Jul 24, 2011 10:10 PM


Click image to enlarge
CORONADO (CBS 8) - The woman found hanging from a balcony at a Coronado Mansion, 32-year-old Rebecca Zahau, has been laid to rest.

Zahau's sister tells News 8, she was buried during a private ceremony on Saturday.

Zahau's naked body was found 11 days ago, at the historic Sprekels Mansion in Coronado and bound at her hands and feet.

The mansion is owned by 54-year-old Johan Shacknai, who was her boyfriend. Shacknai's son died the same week after falling down a staircase in the mansion.

Zahau's family says they plan on releasing a statement in the next few days, with details of a memorial fund.

Investigators say her death was either a murder or a suicide, but it may be weeks before toxicology results are back to help them determine a cause.

video report

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15138378/woman-found-dead-at-coronado-mansion-laid-to-rest

Paladine
07-24-2011, 11:29 PM
Huh? They needed a search warrant to cover her body with a tent??

That's what the reporter in that Fox video link claims the police told her...
Fox News video, bottom of link, end of story it's mentioned...

http://celebritydaily.net/scandals/meet-adam-shacknai-jonah-shacknais-brother/

Paladine
07-24-2011, 11:39 PM
Well, Rebecca's been laid to rest:


Woman found dead at Coronado mansion laid to rest


Posted: Jul 24, 2011 9:35 PM
Updated: Jul 24, 2011 10:10 PM


Click image to enlarge
CORONADO (CBS 8) - The woman found hanging from a balcony at a Coronado Mansion, 32-year-old Rebecca Zahau, has been laid to rest.

Zahau's sister tells News 8, she was buried during a private ceremony on Saturday.

Zahau's naked body was found 11 days ago, at the historic Sprekels Mansion in Coronado and bound at her hands and feet.

The mansion is owned by 54-year-old Johan Shacknai, who was her boyfriend. Shacknai's son died the same week after falling down a staircase in the mansion.

Zahau's family says they plan on releasing a statement in the next few days, with details of a memorial fund.

Investigators say her death was either a murder or a suicide, but it may be weeks before toxicology results are back to help them determine a cause.

video report

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15138378/woman-found-dead-at-coronado-mansion-laid-to-rest

Poor young woman...:( Rest In Peace Rebecca Nalepa.

Thanks for letting us know, elementry. Thoughts and prayers go out to family and friends...this is too sad. I think I'm done for tonight. Night, all.

justbetweenus
07-24-2011, 11:42 PM
Watch the video at the bottom of this link, the FOX news video. The REASON Rebeccas body was NOT covered by a TENT? The reporter asked police why, the answer? Because the Police had to wait for a SEARCH WARRANT to go back in after the 'emergency' was dealt with! http://celebritydaily.net/scandals/meet-adam-shacknai-jonah-shacknais-brother/

I had questioned this the other day too. It just doesn't make sense.

Wendy101
07-24-2011, 11:44 PM
Well, Rebecca's been laid to rest:


Woman found dead at Coronado mansion laid to rest


Posted: Jul 24, 2011 9:35 PM
Updated: Jul 24, 2011 10:10 PM


Click image to enlarge
CORONADO (CBS 8) - The woman found hanging from a balcony at a Coronado Mansion, 32-year-old Rebecca Zahau, has been laid to rest.

Zahau's sister tells News 8, she was buried during a private ceremony on Saturday.

Zahau's naked body was found 11 days ago, at the historic Sprekels Mansion in Coronado and bound at her hands and feet.

The mansion is owned by 54-year-old Johan Shacknai, who was her boyfriend. Shacknai's son died the same week after falling down a staircase in the mansion.

Zahau's family says they plan on releasing a statement in the next few days, with details of a memorial fund.

Investigators say her death was either a murder or a suicide, but it may be weeks before toxicology results are back to help them determine a cause.

video report

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15138378/woman-found-dead-at-coronado-mansion-laid-to-rest

BBM: This speaks volumes....a memorail fund? I guess JS did not pay for the funeral for Rebecca, the woman he loved and was planning to marry....:waitasec:

LOL.. never mind.. I didn't really know what that meant I guess...

Quester
07-25-2011, 12:07 AM
And thus begins the PR spin:

(note the softies throughout about JS)

7/25 Two deaths at Coronado mansion turn spotlight on owner

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-jonah-shacknai-20110725,0,5072719.story?page=1

IzzyBlanche
07-25-2011, 12:21 AM
Huh? They needed a search warrant to cover her body with a tent??


I agree with your Huh? That makes no sense at all.

IzzyBlanche
07-25-2011, 12:24 AM
So if she killed herself by hanging, what do the toxicology reports matter in determining COD?

Curiouser and curiouser.

gngr~snap
07-25-2011, 12:32 AM
IMO I don't think she would have done this herself. But I do believe she is involved.
maybe so. Women usually use a gun or poison someone. That is a lot of work, knowing the positionthe mom was in at the time. BUT on the other hand, she would KNOW statistics! and try to thwart them.
If it was not a suicide WHOEVER it was knew they had time. A LOT of time and likely would not get caught.
This is what I found...
-Could mom be the killer?IMO no.
In contrast, women commit only a fairly small percentage of murders and the "victims" or those "murders" are almost always men who have abused the women. That is to say, while not necessarily self-defense (because it may come well after they have been beaten rather than in immediate defense), when women kill they usually have good reason and the deceased's demise is a net gain for society
http://www.calgunlaws.com/index.php/che-talk/777.htm (http://www.calgunlaws.com/index.php/che-talk/777.htm)
But, women mostly kill a current or former spouse or dating partner, child, friend or relative. The murders are generally unplanned and typically occur in the home. Women kill out of desperation to protect themselves or their children from a real (or imagined) life-threatening situation or in reaction to physical, sexual or psychological abuse. It is often a crime of opportunity; a chance situation presents itself and is acted upon without much thought.
http://dailyhealthweb.blogspot.com/2010/04/dr-oz-why-women-kill-mind-of-female.html
-Could it be the Father? IMO no.
And if the offender has a close relationship with the victim, he will only partially remove the victim's clothing, never leaving her completely nude.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15568704 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15568704)
-Could a stranger have killed her? IMO no.
This does not imply that personal assaults never happen while a property crime is being committed, but usually these offenders prefer quick, clean kills that reduce the time spent at the scene.
-Who found her? The Father's brother staying at the residence?
What about her x husband? Humiliate her? No one can have her?
(what if anything is known about these two men?)
the involvement of a third party, who is usually the one who discovers the victim.
http://www.crimeandclues.com/index.php/behavioral-evidence/48-criminal-profiling/89-violent-crime-scene-analysis-modus-operandi-signature-and-staging (http://www.crimeandclues.com/index.php/behavioral-evidence/48-criminal-profiling/89-violent-crime-scene-analysis-modus-operandi-signature-and-staging)
The second most common type of staging is when the perpetrator attempts to redirect the investigation by making the crime appear to be a sex-related homicide. (IMO this case simply a murder, staged to look like a suicide where the victim was trying to make it look like sexual assault and murder instead) overkill! no pun intended
http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/staging.htm (http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/staging.htm)
conscious criminal action by an offender to thwart an investigation, shock the finder and investigators of the crime scene, or give perverted pleasure to the killer No feelings for his brother? No concern for her modesty? knowing his nephew lay dying as well? he just left her like that?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15568704 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15568704)
often family members wil cover victims- if nude for their own dignity. She wasn't family I know but...

What motive would he have had to want to kill her NOW?
Could it have been that she refused his advances in the abscence of his brother? Not planned but he lost control?

Based on the blue scarf IMO it points more to her X. He would know that...

IzzyBlanche
07-25-2011, 12:44 AM
I have seen the search warrant excuse also, and it makes no sense to me. I am not a legal professional but as far as I know, investigating a suspicious death with the corpse in view would not require a search warrant.

WS legal peeps, help me out.

Sorry to bump my own post, but I just want to clarify what I meant.

I can see LE having to get a search warrant to search the interior of the mansion.

But having to get a search warrant for the courtyard, and the body, and any areas immediate proximate to it?

To put a tent over the corpse? Really?

I'm not a lawyer but that makes no sense to me as far as I understand the law as a layperson.

Carrington
07-25-2011, 01:01 AM
The department on Friday urged police departments from California (http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2011/07/16/bizarre-death-at-arizona-ceos-mansion-grips-coronado-island/#) to Arizona not to release police reports or other public documents about Shacknai or Zahau.
The Coronado Police Department on Friday would not release tapes of the two 911 calls from the mansion this week. The Police Department also refused Friday to release any documents related to any past calls to houses owned by Shacknai and his former wife, Dina Shacknai, who also owns a home on the island.
The San Diego County Medical Examiner’s Office, which completed an autopsy on Zahau on Thursday, said Friday that the report was sealed at the Sheriff’s Department’s request.
Sheriff’s Capt. Tim Curran would not answer any questions about the case.
In a statement sent to various law-enforcement agencies Friday, the department said it also had restricted access to any search warrants issued in the case.

Official Silence
http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2011/07/16/bizarre-death-at-arizona-ceos-mansion-grips-coronado-island/

ETA: Lots more at link

Curious Me
07-25-2011, 01:08 AM
And now I just want to vent....I am furious that the LE could not erect a tent over her body to shield it from those helicopters...How absolutely callous!!! They may have to leave the body uncovered but it could have been shielded from prying eyes.

I may write them about that. I've never seen that done before. They could have gotten one from any funeral home...I think that was mental cruelty to her family!

I feel the same - I'm furious a makeshift tent couldn't have been erected asap. I live in San Diego county. I can't believe LE did not insure dignity for the victim.

justbetweenus
07-25-2011, 01:10 AM
maybe so. Women usually use a gun or poison someone. That is a lot of work, knowing the positionthe mom was in at the time. BUT on the other hand, she would KNOW statistics! and try to thwart them.
If it was not a suicide WHOEVER it was knew they had time. A LOT of time and likely would not get caught.
This is what I found...
-Could mom be the killer?IMO no.
In contrast, women commit only a fairly small percentage of murders and the "victims" or those "murders" are almost always men who have abused the women. That is to say, while not necessarily self-defense (because it may come well after they have been beaten rather than in immediate defense), when women kill they usually have good reason and the deceased's demise is a net gain for society
http://www.calgunlaws.com/index.php/che-talk/777.htm (http://www.calgunlaws.com/index.php/che-talk/777.htm)
But, women mostly kill a current or former spouse or dating partner, child, friend or relative. The murders are generally unplanned and typically occur in the home. Women kill out of desperation to protect themselves or their children from a real (or imagined) life-threatening situation or in reaction to physical, sexual or psychological abuse. It is often a crime of opportunity; a chance situation presents itself and is acted upon without much thought.
http://dailyhealthweb.blogspot.com/2010/04/dr-oz-why-women-kill-mind-of-female.html
-Could it be the Father? IMO no.
And if the offender has a close relationship with the victim, he will only partially remove the victim's clothing, never leaving her completely nude.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15568704 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15568704)
-Could a stranger have killed her? IMO no.
This does not imply that personal assaults never happen while a property crime is being committed, but usually these offenders prefer quick, clean kills that reduce the time spent at the scene.
-Who found her? The Father's brother staying at the resicence?
What about her x husband? Humiliate her? No one can have her?
(what if anything is known about these two men?)
the involvement of a third party, who is usually the one who discovers the victim.
http://www.crimeandclues.com/index.php/behavioral-evidence/48-criminal-profiling/89-violent-crime-scene-analysis-modus-operandi-signature-and-staging (http://www.crimeandclues.com/index.php/behavioral-evidence/48-criminal-profiling/89-violent-crime-scene-analysis-modus-operandi-signature-and-staging)
The second most common type of staging is when the perpetrator attempts to redirect the investigation by making the crime appear to be a sex-related homicide. (IMO this case simply a murder, staged to look like a suicide where the victim was trying to make it look like sexual assault and murder instead) overkill! no pun intended
http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/staging.htm (http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/staging.htm)
conscious criminal action by an offender to thwart an investigation, shock the finder and investigators of the crime scene, or give perverted pleasure to the killer No feelings for his brother? No concern for her modesty? knowing his nephew lay dying as well? he just left her like that?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15568704 (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15568704)
often family members wil cover victims- if nude for their own dignity. She wasn't family I know but...

What motive would he have had to want to kill her NOW?
Could it have been that she refused his advances in the abscence of his brother? Not planned but he lost control?

Based on the blue scarf IMO it points more to her X. He would know that...

Very interesting post gngr snap. Thanks for posting it. I want to read more on the links you have provided.

IF say whoever did this didn't believe Max was hurt from falling down stairs maybe they tied her up torturing her for the real answers. They do say it was violent. I keep coming up with these scenarios (some off the wall I know) of what might have happened because I'm so darn curious to know. Maybe it was Adam, and maybe he made it appear he found her hanged. Just keep going all over the place.

Off to read your links. Thanks again for posting this.

Carrington
07-25-2011, 01:20 AM
If your upset now, wait till you read the story in the link I posted above.
The teen boys in the neighborhood were watching from their roof.

IMO

Curious Me
07-25-2011, 01:22 AM
This is what I'm talking about. It's just plain wrong to not provide some dignity to the victim.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2011/07/16/bizarre-death-at-arizona-ceos-mansion-grips-coronado-island/

"On Wednesday, he and his friends stood on their roof and looked down into the mansion’s courtyard at Zahau’s nude body."

“We saw the body from the roof,” Prchal said Friday, adding that the image was disturbing but hard to look away from. “Definitely.”

justbetweenus
07-25-2011, 01:27 AM
The department on Friday urged police departments from California (http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2011/07/16/bizarre-death-at-arizona-ceos-mansion-grips-coronado-island/#) to Arizona not to release police reports or other public documents about Shacknai or Zahau.
The Coronado Police Department on Friday would not release tapes of the two 911 calls from the mansion this week. The Police Department also refused Friday to release any documents related to any past calls to houses owned by Shacknai and his former wife, Dina Shacknai, who also owns a home on the island.
The San Diego County Medical Examiner’s Office, which completed an autopsy on Zahau on Thursday, said Friday that the report was sealed at the Sheriff’s Department’s request.
Sheriff’s Capt. Tim Curran would not answer any questions about the case.
In a statement sent to various law-enforcement agencies Friday, the department said it also had restricted access to any search warrants issued in the case.

Official Silence
http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2011/07/16/bizarre-death-at-arizona-ceos-mansion-grips-coronado-island/

ETA: Lots more at link

From your link:

Prchal said GS has not talked a lot about Zahau’s death or the injury to her 6-year-old brother. “It’s kind of intimate,” he said. “She doesn’t want to talk about them.”

GS was in Coronado until Monday morning, when she returned to her South Carolina home, Prchal said. She was gone by the time emergency crews responded to calls that her brother had fallen near the mansion’s grand interior staircase.

So she was not there during the accident.

4Jacy
07-25-2011, 01:39 AM
BBM: This speaks volumes....a memorail fund? I guess JS did not pay for the funeral for Rebecca, the woman he loved and was planning to marry....:waitasec:

LOL.. never mind.. I didn't really know what that meant I guess...

Rebecca's family has to now solicit funds for her burial..........Does anyone else see anything wrong with this picture? JS, mega, mega millionaire won't cough up the $$$$ for her burial. Therein lies the story folks.

Either he did find out that RN somehow harmed Max, or he want's to hurt her (perhaps more then he already has,) for not taking care of little Max on her watch.

AGAIN, murder. Plain, but not simple!!!

elementry
07-25-2011, 01:39 AM
Layout of Spreckels Manse

http://www.trulia.com/property/photos/1039341000-1043-Ocean-Blvd-Coronado-CA-92118#item-1

gngr~snap
07-25-2011, 01:45 AM
Sorry to bump my own post, but I just want to clarify what I meant.

I can see LE having to get a search warrant to search the interior of the mansion.

But having to get a search warrant for the courtyard, and the body, and any areas immediate proximate to it?

To put a tent over the corpse? Really?

I'm not a lawyer but that makes no sense to me as far as I understand the law as a layperson.
I would say LE got a cease and desist call.
Imagine the # of things this man had in his home that were not related to the girlfriend. The scene was sealed.. He wasn't getting in anyway.
Almost proof to me in a way he didn't do it. Had he done it he'd have been prepared for a search when LE got involved, before allowing anyone to "find" her.
IF he was with his son all night at the hospital, maybe it was just too much to deal with. I doubt he knew the details or he would have wanted her at least covered. Not knowing the details again shows it's unlikely he did it.
He probably just told everyone to STOP!
While he pondered WTH was up!
His brother was there. Why didn't he insist? I get securing a crime scene... but that was a LONG time.
so sad.

katydid23
07-25-2011, 01:47 AM
From your link:

Prchal said GS has not talked a lot about Zahau’s death or the injury to her 6-year-old brother. “It’s kind of intimate,” he said. “She doesn’t want to talk about them.”

GS was in Coronado until Monday morning, when she returned to her South Carolina home, Prchal said. She was gone by the time emergency crews responded to calls that her brother had fallen near the mansion’s grand interior staircase.

So she was not there during the accident.

NO. Not necessarily. The wording is weird but it COULD mean she was there for the accident but gone by the time the EMT's arrived.

Rhyme & Reason
07-25-2011, 01:50 AM
Rebecca's family has to now solicit funds for her burial..........Does anyone else see anything wrong with this picture? JS, mega, mega millionaire won't cough up the $$$$ for her burial. Therein lies the story folks.

Either he did find out that RN somehow harmed Max, or he want's to hurt her (perhaps more then he already has,) for not taking care of little Max on her watch.

AGAIN, murder. Plain, but not simple!!!

I totally agree. Therein lies the story.

justbetweenus
07-25-2011, 01:50 AM
Layout of Spreckels Manse

http://www.trulia.com/property/photos/1039341000-1043-Ocean-Blvd-Coronado-CA-92118#item-1

So would that balcony area be the opened area at the top of the stairs and just off the master bedroom?

katydid23
07-25-2011, 01:54 AM
It is such a red flag, imo, the way they keep trying to protect the sister. First they say there was a girl there but she was 'not a member of the S family.' And they will not release the 911 call from the boy's accident. But then the article above states she was not even there when the ambulances arrive. THAT is strange. Would she call 911 for help and then just leave?

elementry
07-25-2011, 02:15 AM
So would that balcony area be the opened area at the top of the stairs and just off the master bedroom?

Actually it looks like the bedroom at the left wing end, if you compare the floor plan to this pic:

http://media.trb.com/media/photo/2011-07/292311000-15155402.jpg

Doubt that was where she was staying/sleeping. Could it perhaps have been MS's room?

justbetweenus
07-25-2011, 02:16 AM
Rebecca's family has to now solicit funds for her burial..........Does anyone else see anything wrong with this picture? JS, mega, mega millionaire won't cough up the $$$$ for her burial. Therein lies the story folks.

Either he did find out that RN somehow harmed Max, or he want's to hurt her (perhaps more then he already has,) for not taking care of little Max on her watch.

AGAIN, murder. Plain, but not simple!!!

I do not take this memorial fund as accepting donations to bury her, but for setting something up to honour her memory.

gngr~snap
07-25-2011, 02:17 AM
NO. Not necessarily. The wording is weird but it COULD mean she was there for the accident but gone by the time the EMT's arrived.
Makes sense to me. When my husband shot himself the FIRST
call I made was to neighbors to come get the kids! They were 3 and 4
at the time. He shot himself in the arm and was not bleeding out
(that I could tell) I wanted them out of there ASAP! He was speaking
but in shock.
Where we live a 911 call takes 25 min for response
(we literally get Domino's faster) Here if it's life and death...
You get in your car and drive 3 miles to the next county.
They'll be there in 3 min. - otherwise your dead.
My point here is removing a child promtly is a good thing.
My kids have NO memory of it at all. Had he died I'm sure they would.
They remember him being in the hospital for a long time, but not the accident.
Who knows what she saw.
I would guess the parents decided she needed to leave.
With good reason it seems!
(This was before the "hanging" correct?)

Sure seems to me like someone is removing any possible benefactors
of the dad's $.
Good thing she was gone.
It's hinky alright. Makes one wonder if some vigilate was hiding in the home
waiting on someone to return for the next hit huh?
Maybe dad has some enemies?
Who knows what Rebecca could have been involded in or with.
I would think it becomes crystal clear soon.
Will we know? probably not.

justbetweenus
07-25-2011, 02:18 AM
Actually it looks like the bedroom at the left wing end, if you compare the floor plan to this pic:

http://media.trb.com/media/photo/2011-07/292311000-15155402.jpg

Doubt that was where she was staying/sleeping. Could it perhaps have been MS's room?

Ahh I think you might be right. Thanks.

elementry
07-25-2011, 02:20 AM
Actually it looks like the bedroom at the left wing end, if you compare the floor plan to this pic:

http://media.trb.com/media/photo/2011-07/292311000-15155402.jpg

Doubt that was where she was staying/sleeping. Could it perhaps have been MS's room?

Maybe not MS's since you would think the youngest would be closer to the Master BDM. It is the furthest from the streetside though.

Bonepile
07-25-2011, 02:25 AM
I talked to my brother about wheither or not Rebecca's body should have been covered or not ..I believe the temp was about 70 degrees that day..not positive..he responded that he would have had a tent put over her..not a sheet..cause even the lightest touch on a dead body can cause a mark. It is due to livor. Next I asked about evidence on the body being effected by sun exposure.. he said most evidence leaves a trace on the body..ie rope..fiber..fingerprints..not effected by sun.

He said because the body was nude and sitting in sun..speeds up decomp. Also with heli flying over ..would be better to put a tent over her.

THANKS so much for asking him ... means a lot to get his professional views on this.

lauriej
07-25-2011, 02:32 AM
Watch the video at the bottom of this link, the FOX news video. The REASON Rebeccas body was NOT covered by a TENT? The reporter asked police why, the answer? Because the Police had to wait for a SEARCH WARRANT to go back in after the 'emergency' was dealt with! http://celebritydaily.net/scandals/meet-adam-shacknai-jonah-shacknais-brother/


..that makes no sense to me.

..i remember that the cop that ran and covered nicole simpson's body with a blanket from the house got into a LOT of trouble for that---destroying evidence, compromising the scene etc..

..but to NOT erect some sort of barrier between rebecca's body and the prying eyes of the heli-media????? that is plain CRUEL.

..not only that--surely they heard the helicopter------and didn't even have the decency to position PEOPLE around her body to shield it from the heli-news cameras-----they just left her lying out in the courtyard----naked, on "view", and alone.

MsFacetious
07-25-2011, 02:34 AM
I don't think a "memorial fund" has to be to pay for a funeral.
In fact when it's worded that way it makes me think it is not for that purpose.

Like in Leiby's (very brutal and graphic) case...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144572&page=13

"Our family wishes to establish the LEIBY KLETZKY MEMORIAL FUND to perpetuate the memory of our dear Leiby and to keep him alive in our hearts and minds. This fund would help anguished families in crisis and need, something that Leiby would have wanted to do had he been given more years of life."

http://www.give2gether.com/projects/help-support-leiby-kletzky/

I wouldn't be surprised if this type of thing is what Rebecca's sister is referring to.


I have seen the search warrant excuse also, and it makes no sense to me. I am not a legal professional but as far as I know, investigating a suspicious death with the corpse in view would not require a search warrant.

WS legal peeps, help me out.

They would get a search warrant just to be on the safe side...even if Jonah begged them to search.

However, there is NO WAY it took from 7am to 2pm to get a search warrant. NO WAY. They had an obvious dead body which established a likely crime AND likely evidence. They could have had a warrant immediately.


BBM - Scuba diver style - sit backwards on the side of the boat (railing), fall/flipping backwards into the water (courtyard).

I have never considered suicide by hanging. However, when thinking about it now... I would have to go with standing on a table and kicking it out. Jumping off a balcony... would HURT.

Seriously. Why would you choose that rather than standing on a table and then kicking it away? Maybe more instantaneous?

Bonepile
07-25-2011, 03:05 AM
REBECCA NALEPA
1979 - 2011
"The key to Immortality is to first live a life worth remembering" ... Bruce Lee

gngr~snap
07-25-2011, 03:11 AM
I don't think a "memorial fund" has to be to pay for a funeral.
In fact when it's worded that way it makes me think it is not for that purpose.

Like in Leiby's (very brutal and graphic) case...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144572&page=13

"Our family wishes to establish the LEIBY KLETZKY MEMORIAL FUND to perpetuate the memory of our dear Leiby and to keep him alive in our hearts and minds. This fund would help anguished families in crisis and need, something that Leiby would have wanted to do had he been given more years of life."

http://www.give2gether.com/projects/help-support-leiby-kletzky/

I wouldn't be surprised if this type of thing is what Rebecca's sister is referring to.




They would get a search warrant just to be on the safe side...even if Jonah begged them to search.

However, there is NO WAY it took from 7am to 2pm to get a search warrant. NO WAY. They had an obvious dead body which established a likely crime AND likely evidence. They could have had a warrant immediately.




I have never considered suicide by hanging. However, when thinking about it now... I would have to go with standing on a table and kicking it out. Jumping off a balcony... would HURT.

Seriously. Why would you choose that rather than standing on a table and then kicking it away? Maybe more instantaneous?
Why not over the bannister down to the entry? Why outside? ODD!

Alright I AM NO graphic artist! But this house confuses me I was trying to figure out the rooms, If MS was next to them? I'd put a 6 yr old in a room without a bath. If I had a choice, anyway I think I could see where he went over. (maybe) click on the pic (link)
then double click for full size.
17940

gngr~snap
07-25-2011, 04:05 AM
This is the best I can do. I can only

-http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1457&pictureid=12675
▲patio--------------- ▲body found
rotate 90 degree angles on this computer.
I need to be able to turn it~


17943

peace9274
07-25-2011, 04:11 AM
I agree, jjenny. Nice to see eye-to-eye with you on a case, it makes life much easier, lol; you are one smart cookie, imo. ;)

Not suicide. Not nude, not with electrical cord, imo. Orange, heavy gauge, electrical cord should be kept in the garage, imo...I keep getting stuck on that.

I wonder if she ever made it to the hospital and if not, why not, she reportedly said she boarded the dog to do so?

ETA: and if her reason for 'suicide' was guilt over Maxie, why make it look like a twisted, violent murder and cause more grief? Who makes their own suicide look violent? What's the percentage of women who like pain before they off themselves? Especially women accustomed to a softer lifestyle? ALL my own ramblings...take with salt, or don't take at all. ;)

Many years ago, while going to college to become a nurse, I worked for a major car rental company at LAX.
It was back in the day when we had to be young, female, pretty & definitely a small size (like the airlines).

A lot of the girls were waiting to becomes "stews" or were waiting for their next casting call.
One was a part-time Playboy magazine playmate of the month.

One of my co-workers had been dating a married actor for many years. Immediately after the break-up,
her behavior was erratic. She had been very sweet and so nice prior to the break up.
She began drinking heavily and taking meds.

One evening she & I were working together at one of the terminals and she began yelling,
swearing loudly at a man & his wife over something stupid.

I politely & smiling (at her & the customers) told her to calm down and to go take a break.
None of us had never seen that side of her, although we knew she was hurt & angry over
the break-up with her BF.

This will tell how many years ago this was, but back then we could smoke at the counters even
when the customers were lined up waiting to get their cars. It was also back when LAX wasn't as
huge as it is now and the car rental counters were in the terminals, close by everything else.

Anyway, this girl was smoking a cigarette when I told her to go take a break.
She yelled, "F*** you!" at me and threw her still lit cigarette over the counter.
It went into the woman's open carry on, which we didn't see until it started smoldering.
Of course, they complained to the management about her behavior & the stuff her cig had burned.

About a week later, that same co-worker was at home late one night after work.
She called her then married ex-BF to come over to her apartment. She said she had something to talk to
him about & some things to give him. When he arrived, he knocked on the door and she said to come in.

He opened the door and she was lying on the couch naked. She had set herself up with a rifle barrel in her mouth
& had string/rope attached to the trigger and to the doorknob, so that when he opened the door, the rifle went off.

Of course, it killed her and we all went to her OPEN CASKET funeral! And of course it didn't look like her,
due the excellent job the funeral people had done on her.

I told this cuz it shows that you never know what people are capable of doing when placed in certain devastating
and unexpected situations.

Being a psych nurse for 30 + years, I have many other stories to tell, also.
But I'll save those for another time.

peace9274
07-25-2011, 04:22 AM
.....................
.................................................. ............


Being a psych nurse for 30 + years, I have many other stories to tell, also. But I'll save those for another time.

Oh wait, I'll tell this one.... About 10-15 yrs ago, we had a female patient that was in the news a LOT
for stalking one of the late night talk show hosts, had even broken into his home when he wasn't home,
took his car into NY, when stopped at a toll booth, she claimed she was his wife.

She was in and out of our facility for treatment. And since it was in the news and in many of the tabloids
and People magazine, I'm not breaking any confidentiality laws... but anyway, during the last time she was
discharged from the hospital, she killed herself by throwing herself in front of an oncoming commuter train.

OK..... back to reading about the case here.

10-6Mom
07-25-2011, 04:34 AM
Well, that's the excuse they are giving...yet, in the same video the Chief stresses how this investigation will ride on forensics!

This certainly needs to be answered for. Is it the search warrant excuse or are the police lieing? And why?

I have to start by saying I have never seen a case that has been kept so confidential! There are so many areas in a criminal investigation where information can be leaked. In this case you are dealing with 2 LE agencies, a DA's office, 2 hospital/medical staff, paramedics, coroner office and county court system. As of today's date no leaks, it's almost unheard of!

That being said, not being directly involved in this investigation this is entirely my opinion on some of the actions taken by LE.

Coronado Police (CPD) had been at the residence two days prior. They are dispatched to the residence again. Once RN was pronounced deceased, officers stepped back and looked at the totality of evidence. Initial reports made to the public said it was a violent death/possible suicide. For whatever reason the decision was made to call San Diego Sheriffs Dept (SDSO) to handle the investigation.

So regarding the search warrant, you have CPD's jurisdiction, CPD turns over the investigation to a different agency (SDSO). SDSO now enters the scene. Time has passed from the time she was reported deceased and when the sheriffs detectives show up. If LE felt this was a simp,e suicide would they have gotten a warrant? Probably not, but because there was a possibility it was murder, a warrant needed to be written. IMO SDSO would have still gotten a warrant regardless, but something else that needs to be considered,
you have a homeowner who is not available to give consent to search the inside of the house. Another reason to do it right and obtaining a warrant, JS has a ton of money. These cops had one shot to get this case right! JS, AS, DS and whoever is responsible for RN's murder (if it is not one of them) is scratching their heads just as we are, wondering the status of this investigation. Imagine if the 911 calls, reports, warrants, tox reports, autopsy reports were made public. You can best believe the suspect's defense team would already be looking at mistakes made by LE and loop holes. This would become another OJ case.

I am going out on a limb here, supporting the actions made by LE and the DA's Office. I am hoping that this is just clean honest police work. That they are trying to avoid having the investigation compromised and the media and court circus that goes along with sloppy police work.

I feel bad that the media gained access to the photos of RN. I am hoping the
family will get justice when the suspect is arrested, and convicted of the murder of their daughter. I hope that the LE detectives are in constant communication with RN's family and that they have been made privy to this investigation.

Melanie
07-25-2011, 04:54 AM
..that makes no sense to me.

..i remember that the cop that ran and covered nicole simpson's body with a blanket from the house got into a LOT of trouble for that---destroying evidence, compromising the scene etc..

..but to NOT erect some sort of barrier between rebecca's body and the prying eyes of the heli-media????? that is plain CRUEL.

..not only that--surely they heard the helicopter------and didn't even have the decency to position PEOPLE around her body to shield it from the heli-news cameras-----they just left her lying out in the courtyard----naked, on "view", and alone.

Unfortunately, that's how crimes scenes have been handled in recent years IMHO. No more putting blankets over them or any possibility of tampering a (possible) crime scene.

I know it's not the popular opinion, but I believe IMHO that LE did the right thing. They didn't move the body (as far as I know), or tamper with anything. Even leaving the hands behind the back. Who do I blame? I blame the news channel who felt a need to fly over and take the photos. Let LE do their job to the best of their ability, while also maintaining the credibility of the scene. That's their job.

If she had been covered, I would be saying WTH - there may have been transfer fiber they just messed up.

It's a bad situation either way we look at it.

MOO - thanks.

Mel

peace9274
07-25-2011, 04:57 AM
question posted by commentor on an article:

"If it was a suicide, how do you climb over a balcony with your feet bound and your hands tied behind your back? There has to be someone else involved."

there are some comments here:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/14/woman-found-dead-spreckels-mansion-identified/

ETA: be sure to click 'load more comments' at the bottom....

I said earlier that I thought maybe she had the noose already hanging over the balcony.
She stool on a table below, tied her arms & legs, and then slipped her head into the noose
and then stepped off the table.

I think the rope stretched just enough so she slumped onto the ground, but still upright with knees bended...
almost kneeling. Rigor mortis set in and that is why her body is shaped as it is in the photos.

I'm almost positive the emt staff that arrived on the scene, didn't perform CPR. Rigor is a sign that death has
occured and victim cannot be revived. Plus, she still has a scarf on her neck, which they for sure would've
removed to check for pulse, tilt head back, etc.

She may have had on a floor length nightgown, which was removed to start CPR, but once they saw the
legs bent & rigor was through out her body, they would NOT have proceeded with CPR.

That was my suicide theory.

I also have a murder theory.

Melanie
07-25-2011, 04:58 AM
I have to start by saying I have never seen a case that has been kept so confidential! There are so many areas in a criminal investigation where information can be leaked. In this case you are dealing with 2 LE agencies, a DA's office, 2 hospital/medical staff, paramedics, coroner office and county court system. As of today's date no leaks, it's almost unheard of!

That being said, not being directly involved in this investigation this is entirely my opinion on some of the actions taken by LE.

Coronado Police (CPD) had been at the residence two days prior. They are dispatched to the residence again. Once RN was pronounced deceased, officers stepped back and looked at the totality of evidence. Initial reports made to the public said it was a violent death/possible suicide. For whatever reason the decision was made to call San Diego Sheriffs Dept (SDSO) to handle the investigation.

So regarding the search warrant, you have CPD's jurisdiction, CPD turns over the investigation to a different agency (SDSO). SDSO now enters the scene. Time has passed from the time she was reported deceased and when the sheriffs detectives show up. If LE felt this was a simp,e suicide would they have gotten a warrant? Probably not, but because there was a possibility it was murder, a warrant needed to be written. IMO SDSO would have still gotten a warrant regardless, but something else that needs to be considered,
you have a homeowner who is not available to give consent to search the inside of the house. Another reason to do it right and obtaining a warrant, JS has a ton of money. These cops had one shot to get this case right! JS, AS, DS and whoever is responsible for RN's murder (if it is not one of them) is scratching their heads just as we are, wondering the status of this investigation. Imagine if the 911 calls, reports, warrants, tox reports, autopsy reports were made public. You can best believe the suspect's defense team would already be looking at mistakes made by LE and loop holes. This would become another OJ case.

I am going out on a limb here, supporting the actions made by LE and the DA's Office. I am hoping that this is just clean honest police work. That they are trying to avoid having the investigation compromised and the media and court circus that goes along with sloppy police work.

I feel bad that the media gained access to the photos of RN. I am hoping the
family will get justice when the suspect is arrested, and convicted of the murder of their daughter. I hope that the LE detectives are in constant communication with RN's family and that they have been made privy to this investigation.

BBM:

The City of Coronado does not have a homicide division, and had no choice but to call in the SD Sheriff's office.

IMHO I do believe this is good clean police work. I haven't heard anything to indicate otherwise.

MOO

Mel

Melanie
07-25-2011, 05:04 AM
Oh wait, I'll tell this one.... About 10-15 yrs ago, we had a female patient that was in the news a LOT
for stalking one of the late night talk show hosts, had even broken into his home when he wasn't home,
took his car into NY, when stopped at a toll booth, she claimed she was his wife.

She was in and out of our facility for treatment. And since it was in the news and in many of the tabloids
and People magazine, I'm not breaking any confidentiality laws... but anyway, during the last time she was
discharged from the hospital, she killed herself by throwing herself in front of an oncoming commuter train.

OK..... back to reading about the case here.

Oh, I remember that! She even knelt in front of the train to kill herself.

No you're not breaking any laws. Anyone who remembers can find the MSM link pretty darn quick!

MEl

peace9274
07-25-2011, 05:25 AM
The defense attorney showed up quickly...and "former two time district attorney" ?


http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/19/local/la-me-mansion-deaths-20110719

I just hope justice, whatever that may be, is served where, and if, warranted. My gut feels sick over this one.

"In announcing the death of his son, Jonah Shacknai suggested memorial contributions be made to
the Whispering Hope Ranch Foundation in Scottsdale. Shacknai has served as president and director
of the foundation, which helps special-needs children."

From the above link in Paladine's post.

There were some comments in an earlier thread,
wondering where the contributions would be going.

~n/t~
07-25-2011, 06:41 AM
NO. Not necessarily. The wording is weird but it COULD mean she was there for the accident but gone by the time the EMT's arrived.

That's the way I interpreted it.

~n/t~
07-25-2011, 06:48 AM
I'm not sure what waiting on the toxicology results will mean in this case. Even if they come back with high levels of alcohol or drugs, they still can't rule whether it was a suicide or murder, right? It's all the other forensics that are key, imo.

Thoughts?

peace9274
07-25-2011, 07:04 AM
I just realized I am connected to this case in 2 ways!!

First:
I live in AZ (actually, 3 if you count that) and I had Dysport injections in
June 2011 right before my son's wedding.

Second:
Saturday afternoon, after I finally broke myself away from reading at WS all day, I went to go do much
needed & neglected errands, including getting a manicure/pedicure. I was in the middle of having my nails
done, at the nail spa, sitting close to the huge plate window, when an SUV at top speed, plowed into 3-4
other cars and they all hit the building. It blew out the windows, sending glass towards us like a hail storm,
made a huge noise that we thought a plane crashed or a bomb had gone off & shook the building.

I got hit (not badly) in the head with a piece of flying car debris. Another customer (also a nurse) got a
piece of glass stuck in her eye, the girl working on my nails had facial lacerations, and another head trauma.

A man putting groceries into one of the cars hit, received a broken arm. All 5 of us were taken to the
hospital via ambulance and all were released within a couple hours. The driver died, despite attempts
at CPR by the EMTs on the sidewalk right outside the shop.

SO... you ask how is this connected to this case? Well, I was reading at one of the above links to an
Arizona Republic News article about this case and came upon the news article about the incident I
was involved in Saturday!!! It also ran on News 12 & News 5 at 10 pm Saturday night.

See article below:

(Sorry that neither connection is giving any info re the case. But at least I got to tell about my very
terrifying experience yesterday. I took 30+ photos & posted them at my Facebook!
And yes..... my nails are still just half done!)

SUV hits 3 vehicles, nail salon in Surprise; driver dies

by Matt Haldane (http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/author/matt-haldane/) on Jul. 23, 2011, under Arizona Republic News (http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/category/arizona-republic-news/)

The driver of an SUV died Saturday after striking three vehicles and colliding with a storefront at
a business (http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2011/07/23/suv-hits-3-vehicles-nail-salon-in-surprise-driver-dies/#) plaza in Surprise, authorities said. The SUV turned into the plaza at Reems Road and
Grand Avenue at a high speed about 5 p.m., said Bert Anzini, a spokesman for Surprise police.

A man loading groceries sustained some minor injuries as he got out of the way before his vehicle
was struck. The SUV struck two other parked cars before crashing into a nail salon. An adjacent
chiropractic business also took some damage.

Anzini said it was not known what caused the erratic driving and consequent collisions. “It’s fortunate
there weren’t more injuries,” Anzini said. “(That area) is frequently visited.”

gngr~snap
07-25-2011, 07:36 AM
I said earlier that I thought maybe she had the noose already hanging over the balcony.
She stool on a table below, tied her arms & legs, and then slipped her head into the noose
and then stepped off the table.

I think the rope stretched just enough so she slumped onto the ground, but still upright with knees bended...
almost kneeling. Rigor mortis set in and that is why her body is shaped as it is in the photos.


I'm almost positive the emt staff that arrived on the scene, didn't perform CPR. Rigor is a sign that death has
occured and victim cannot be revived. Plus, she still has a scarf on her neck, which they for sure would've
removed to check for pulse, tilt head back, etc.

She may have had on a floor length nightgown, which was removed to start CPR, but once they saw the
legs bent & rigor was through out her body, they would NOT have proceeded with CPR.

That was my suicide theory.

I also have a murder theory.
No way! IMO they barely touched her! If they had they'd have taken her out of the grass onto a hard suface and cut her hands free so she could lay flat. They didn't do any of that. She was beyond resuscitating!
HOWEVER (the pics aren't clear)
I do not see any livor mortis in her extremities.
HAD she been (sorry) dangling there since around 1am her feet and lower legs SHOULD have been iscolored. IM professional opinion.(based on the blurry pics I see) She never "hung" herself and was not found that way.
The electrical chord as to hide a manual stragulation, the nude tied up body to make it look like a sex crime if the suicide theory didn't fly.

gngr~snap
07-25-2011, 07:43 AM
I'm not sure what waiting on the toxicology results will mean in this case. Even if they come back with high levels of alcohol or drugs, they still can't rule whether it was a suicide or murder, right? It's all the other forensics that are key, imo.

Thoughts?
IMO if she was doped up drunk and/or or narcotics there is NO way she would have had the ability to tie the knots properly to ensure that she suceeded at her attempt.
If the toxicology comes back with extemely high levels it points to murder. (knock her out then kill her)

~n/t~
07-25-2011, 07:59 AM
IMO if she was doped up drunk and/or or narcotics there is NO way she would have had the ability to tie the knots properly to ensure that she suceeded at her attempt.
If the toxicology comes back with extemely high levels it points to murder. (knock her out then kill her)

You make a good point but I've also known people do some irrational things when high....things they couldn't do without drinking or drugs. She may have planned it ahead of time and then did the deed when she was wasted...or they may find nothing in her system. Who knows.

I'm leaning more towards it being ruled a suicide. There is nothing so far that indicates that it was a murder (from what we know). I don't think the toxicology report will determine MOD. It won't make or break the case. My :twocents:

Morag
07-25-2011, 08:00 AM
I am very familiar with Coronado, having spent two weeks there every winter for about 20 years (my in-laws owned a condo at the Shores and spent their winters there- in the summer, they rented it out to zonies). I have even had the unfortunate experience of having to call 911-hubby broke leg-on Christmas Eve, no less.

What I don't understand is how-and perhaps why- the person who actually called 911 was able to get out of and away from the house before the emergency responders arrived. Coronado is about as big as a dinner napkin; the police would have been there in almost no time, certainly less than 5 minutes. Yet this person was gone from the house by the time they arrived.

Some stories say she flew back to SC immediately- unless the car or taxi to the airport was there waiting for her, that couldn't have happened. I saw one story yesterday that said she flew on the next day, so where was she in the meantime? Very sad to think of a child having to fly all day alone after having seen such a horrifying accident... And did anyone ride in the ambulance with little Max, or was he, too, alone?

His mother lived quite nearby- is it possible that she was called and was there for Max? But where did the 911 caller go to?

oceanblueeyes
07-25-2011, 08:18 AM
Huh? They needed a search warrant to cover her body with a tent??

It sounds so inherently wrong but yes, LE must have a SW to also enter and search the grounds and any out buildings on the property such as the guest house.

Usually one is obtained to search the interior of the home and then one is gained so that they are able to go onto the outside property itself and seize any evidence they may find. By doing so, they legally took custody of Rebecca's body after then.

And believe me, with this being a high powered family LE wanted to do it strickly by the books.

IMO

oceanblueeyes
07-25-2011, 08:32 AM
You make a good point but I've also known people do some irrational things when high....things they couldn't do without drinking or drugs. She may have planned it ahead of time and then did the deed when she was wasted...or they may find nothing in her system. Who knows.

I'm leaning more towards it being ruled a suicide. There is nothing so far that indicates that it was a murder (from what we know). I don't think the toxicology report will determine MOD. It won't make or break the case. My :twocents:

Well I have come full circle this morning.:waitasec: I really have felt all along it could have easily been a suicide. I no longer lean that way although I do keep it in the back of my mind as a possibility. The entire death of Rebecca seems way too complicated to be a suicide.

I don't even think it was even staged to look like a suicide. I think it is what it is. It wasnt staged at all. It was meant to look like a homicide because that is what it is.

Someone felt strongly that Rebecca deserved to die and imo they are holding her responsible for Max' death or something else they held against her. They murdered her after binding her hands and feet then they put the rope around her neck and threw her off the balcony and left her there for all to see. A message sent by 'someone.'

BUT WHO?

Since Rebecca didn't seem to be included in the vigil at the hospital could she have called her ex to come and console her?

I just don't see Jonah or Dina doing this and I cant figure out why Adam would since he wasnt even close to his brother.

imo

~n/t~
07-25-2011, 08:57 AM
Well I have come full circle this morning.:waitasec: I really have felt all along it could have easily been a suicide. I no longer lean that way although I do keep it in the back of my mind as a possibility. The entire death of Rebecca seems way too complicated to be a suicide.

I don't even think it was even staged to look like a suicide. I think it is what it is. It wasnt staged at all. It was meant to look like a homicide because that is what it is.

Someone felt strongly that Rebecca deserved to die and imo they are holding her responsible for Max' death or something else they held against her. They murdered her after binding her hands and feet then they put the rope around her neck and threw her off the balcony and left her there for all to see. A message sent by 'someone.'

BUT WHO?

Since Rebecca didn't seem to be included in the vigil at the hospital could she have called her ex to come and console her?

I just don't see Jonah or Dina doing this and I cant figure out why Adam would since he wasnt even close to his brother.

imo

The only 2 with motive would be Jonah or Dina if there is a connection to Maxie's death. Adam may have been an accomplice (staging) Where does her ex live?

Don't you think if it was homicide, they'd have a POI by now? The last report I saw, all 3 were considered "witnesses" and cooperating.

I don't see anyone outside the 3 mentioned who would have motive unless there are other undisclosed secrets.....and perhaps Maxie's death was NOT an accident.

Gosh, I wish more details would surface. This makes for a good murder mystery novel or movie.

oceanblueeyes
07-25-2011, 09:16 AM
The only 2 with motive would be Jonah or Dina if there is a connection to Maxie's death. Adam may have been an accomplice (staging) Where does her ex live?

Don't you think if it was homicide, they'd have a POI by now? The last report I saw, all 3 were considered "witnesses" and cooperating.

I don't see anyone outside the 3 mentioned who would have motive unless there are other undisclosed secrets.....and perhaps Maxie's death was NOT an accident.

Gosh, I wish more details would surface. This makes for a good murder mystery novel or movie.

In Az. I think n/t. It isn't that far to this area is it? He has spoken out. Did he still have feelings for her I wonder?

I don't think the police are going to come out and say they have a POI. If they finally come out they will either declare Rebecca's death a suicide or a homicide. They will not move quickly on this case but cautiously. They know if it is deemed a homicide it is going to explode into another national high profile case.

Imo, if it is a homicide and they have the evidence to prove who is involved we will only know who the suspect is once an arrest has been made..

Like I said I was comfortable believing it was a suicide. I could see how Rebecca felt such pain and guilt if she held herself responsible for Max' accident but now I am just not sure what to believe. I am even questioning the 'accident' Max supposedly had. Was it an accident or did someone get frustrated and shoved him and he fell?

It gives me pause that they are waiting on the tox tests to come back first. Surely they would know now if it is lining up with a suicide or not. It makes me think they are puzzled about somethings that may not make sense when applied to a suicide death.

IMO

~n/t~
07-25-2011, 09:28 AM
In Az. I think n/t. It isn't that far to this area is it? He has spoken out. Did he still have feelings for her I wonder?

I don't think the police are going to come out and say they have a POI. If they finally come out they will either declare Rebecca's death a suicide or a homicide. They will not move quickly on this case but cautiously. They know if it is deemed a homicide it is going to explode into another national high profile case.

Imo, if it is a homicide and they have the evidence to prove who is involved we will only know who the suspect is once an arrest has been made..

Like I said I was comfortable believing it was a suicide. I could see how Rebecca felt such pain and guilt if she held herself responsible for Max' accident but now I am just not sure what to believe. I am even questioning the 'accident' Max supposedly had. Was it an accident or did someone get frustrated and shoved him and he fell?

It gives me pause that they are waiting on the tox tests to come back first. Surely they would know now if it is lining up with a suicide or not. It makes me think they are puzzled about somethings that may not make sense when applied to a suicide death.

IMO

I keep going back and forth on MOD also. Like I said in a previous post, I don't think toxicology report would make or break the case unless there is something more. The report in itself can't rule out suicide or murder. If they can tie it to other forensics and evidence found, then perhaps a MOD can be determined.

If it will be ruled homicide, I think Maxie's death is connected and I hope they investigate his "accident" as well.

jjenny
07-25-2011, 09:39 AM
I keep going back and forth on MOD also. Like I said in a previous post, I don't think toxicology report would make or break the case unless there is something more. The report in itself can't rule out suicide or murder. If they can tie it to other forensics and evidence found, then perhaps a MOD can be determined.

If it will be ruled homicide, I think Maxie's death is connected and I hope they investigate his "accident" as well.

I can see how tox screen can make a difference. For instance, if they were to find a lethal amount of something in her system, then presumably she couldn't have killed herself by hanging. Or if they were to find high amounts of something, seems unlikely she would have have been able to hang herself using the complicated method (hands and feet bound).

Amalie
07-25-2011, 09:42 AM
I'm not sure what waiting on the toxicology results will mean in this case. Even if they come back with high levels of alcohol or drugs, they still can't rule whether it was a suicide or murder, right? It's all the other forensics that are key, imo.

Thoughts?

Results of toxicology could be important towards the determination, just a piece to the puzzle. I agree if there are lethal amounts or somethng which would have knocked her out like date rape drugs (or chloroform1) it points to homicide. Something like LSD would tend to point to suicide.

time
07-25-2011, 09:43 AM
And trust me I re-read every article referenced on the 3 threads and a few I'd found on my own way up into the wee hours of the am. It is rare one can't find something somewhere in Topix -there has been nothing I could find on this. There is a reason for this I think. Perhaps the sources could be sued or the police want to guarantee all is secure.

I just feel bad for Rebecca's family. The other person in her relationship for the last two years could express some type of condolences!!!- For me that speaks volumes!

I doubt LE is having any influence but I could be wrong. On another case I followed these sorts of things happened. I think it is more related to the PR machine in place or individuals/attorneys threatening to sue or contacting connections. In my opinion this happens when #1 someone has money and a higher profile and #2 something/comments about that someone may make them look guilty or at least not so great.

Lawgirl
07-25-2011, 09:47 AM
The only 2 with motive would be Jonah or Dina if there is a connection to Maxie's death. Adam may have been an accomplice (staging) Where does her ex live?

Don't you think if it was homicide, they'd have a POI by now? The last report I saw, all 3 were considered "witnesses" and cooperating.

I don't see anyone outside the 3 mentioned who would have motive unless there are other undisclosed secrets.....and perhaps Maxie's death was NOT an accident.

Gosh, I wish more details would surface. This makes for a good murder mystery novel or movie.

To me it would seem that every individual closely connected to this case could have murdered her, as well as faint possibility she killed herself. As far as her ex husband we know nothing at all. We don't know if they had a terrible relationship, a civil one -- was he upset that his marriage to her ended after 8 years because she met someone who was very wealthy -- and so she "let the wealth get to her head."

Lawgirl
07-25-2011, 09:50 AM
Results of toxicology could be important towards the determination, just a piece to the puzzle.

I don't think this woman was drugged. She did a "violent" death -- they probably wanted her very much alive and feeling every blow and being very conscious of an assault up on her. Whomever did this to her was very angry...drugging her would put her in an altered state which would likely cause her to feel less pain. I think she was meant to feel pain.

jjenny
07-25-2011, 09:58 AM
I believe there are types of drugs that could incapacitate someone while still allowing them to feel pain.

Lawgirl
07-25-2011, 10:44 AM
I really think she was very conscious when this happened to her - this was revenge - an eye for an eye - in my opinion.

time
07-25-2011, 11:09 AM
The department on Friday urged police departments from California (http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2011/07/16/bizarre-death-at-arizona-ceos-mansion-grips-coronado-island/#) to Arizona not to release police reports or other public documents about Shacknai or Zahau.
The Coronado Police Department on Friday would not release tapes of the two 911 calls from the mansion this week. The Police Department also refused Friday to release any documents related to any past calls to houses owned by Shacknai and his former wife, Dina Shacknai, who also owns a home on the island.
The San Diego County Medical Examiner’s Office, which completed an autopsy on Zahau on Thursday, said Friday that the report was sealed at the Sheriff’s Department’s request.
Sheriff’s Capt. Tim Curran would not answer any questions about the case.
In a statement sent to various law-enforcement agencies Friday, the department said it also had restricted access to any search warrants issued in the case.

Official Silence
http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2011/07/16/bizarre-death-at-arizona-ceos-mansion-grips-coronado-island/

ETA: Lots more at link


Hmmm ... I thought all the domestic abuse stuff and/or previous police calls happened in Arizona? But, I guess there is that court deal in California where Dina didn't pay off for renting a house for a month for ~$32k, so maybe I am wrong?

jjenny
07-25-2011, 11:15 AM
So what is the deal with the police? Why are they being so secretive?
Aren't 911 calls public info? Why hasn't anything been released? And why is police asking other police departments not to release anything?

time
07-25-2011, 11:16 AM
And thus begins the PR spin:

(note the softies throughout about JS)

7/25 Two deaths at Coronado mansion turn spotlight on owner

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-jonah-shacknai-20110725,0,5072719.story?page=1

In the late 1980s, he helped found Medicis — which markets acne and anti-wrinkle treatments around the world — and in 1993 married his first wife, Kimberly James. Leading up to their divorce a few years later, the two had a rocky relationship, according to court records

Interesting... I wonder what 'rocky' means?

And, I don't care how devoted I thought someone was to their partner, I wouldn't come to their defense in the media when they never even issued a statement about that persons violent death.

And, I brought this up earlier ...

The two were well-respected and admired in the affluent Arizona community where his business is based. They worked together to help local organizations, including funding and doing hands-on work at Whispering Hope Ranch Foundation, which pairs special needs children with abused, abandoned and injured animals. In announcing his son's death to reporters earlier this month, Shacknai suggested that memorial contributions be made to the foundation.

I believe Shacknai is an officer of this charity. I would not ask for contributions to my own charity when a family death occurs.

A year later, as their marriage was falling apart, Dina Shacknai told police that her husband had elbowed her in the chest while trying to drive away from their home. Max, their young son, was inside the home at the time, and Shacknai had just finished reading him a bedtime story.

????? SO, he finishes reading him a story and tries to leave (isn't this the event that had more to it and she says 'you can't leave me?").

time
07-25-2011, 11:32 AM
If your upset now, wait till you read the story in the link I posted above.
The teen boys in the neighborhood were watching from their roof.

IMO

Ugh, not only teen boys but friends of GS. Her friend also says GS "was in Coronado until Monday morning, when she returned to her South Carolina home, Prchal said. She was gone by the time emergency crews responded to calls that her brother had fallen near the mansion’s grand interior staircase."

You can't tell by his wording, but how likely is it she was there and gone before Max fell - didn't the 911 call come in at 10:10 am? Is this just the story they are telling people now? I know a girl made the phone call t o 911, but I can't recall if LE definitely said the girl was still there when they arrived. If not, then it sounds as if they never talked to her other than the 911 call.

time
07-25-2011, 11:34 AM
From your link:

Prchal said GS has not talked a lot about Zahau’s death or the injury to her 6-year-old brother. “It’s kind of intimate,” he said. “She doesn’t want to talk about them.”

GS was in Coronado until Monday morning, when she returned to her South Carolina home, Prchal said. She was gone by the time emergency crews responded to calls that her brother had fallen near the mansion’s grand interior staircase.

So she was not there during the accident.


Ah, but you see, it doesn't say that. No one has said she wasn't there, I don't think.

Quester
07-25-2011, 11:39 AM
... snipped ...

And, I brought this up earlier ...

The two were well-respected and admired in the affluent Arizona community where his business is based. They worked together to help local organizations, including funding and doing hands-on work at Whispering Hope Ranch Foundation, which pairs special needs children with abused, abandoned and injured animals. In announcing his son's death to reporters earlier this month, Shacknai suggested that memorial contributions be made to the foundation.

I believe Shacknai is an officer of this charity. I would not ask for contributions to my own charity when a family death occurs.



IMO, JS does not directly benefit from donations made to Whispering Hope Ranch Foundation. He is a director on the board that helps guide the non-profit’s (?) direction. The beneficiaries are the children and the animals. Sounds like a beautiful organization.


... snipped ...

A year later, as their marriage was falling apart, Dina Shacknai told police that her husband had elbowed her in the chest while trying to drive away from their home. Max, their young son, was inside the home at the time, and Shacknai had just finished reading him a bedtime story.

????? SO, he finishes reading him a story and tries to leave (isn't this the event that had more to it and she says 'you can't leave me?").


I think this is the JS PR machine at work.

The PR goal may be to embrace the bad PR that has already been released about JS and soften the edges (JS reading bedtime stories).

kljohnson0458
07-25-2011, 11:56 AM
Taken from http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2011/07/16/bizarre-death-at-arizona-ceos-mansion-grips-coronado-island/

WTH does this mean. Near the stairs.

On Monday, the 6-year-old son of Jonah Shacknai, CEO of Scottsdale-based Medicis Pharmaceutical Corp., was hospitalized. The boy had suffered serious injuries in a fall near the mansion’s main staircase.

10-6Mom
07-25-2011, 12:00 PM
So what is the deal with the police? Why are they being so secretive?
Aren't 911 calls public info? Why hasn't anything been released? And why is police asking other police departments not to release anything?

You are correct most of the items you have mentioned are public records, under the California Public Records Act (PRA), cal government code 6250-6276. However there are some exceptions, an active investigation is one of those exceptions. City and County attorneys in California are very familiar with the PRA. IMO since it appears SDSO detectives are going by the book on this case those attorneys would have been consulted prior to releasing anything pertaining to this case and involved parties. Some records (search warrants, coroner reports) have been sealed through the courts, which is a totally different process.

Why are they doing this? IMO LE have one shot at this investigation. They are making sure everything is by the book and in place. Let's say they determined the death of RN a suicide, statement has been made, case closed. Now let's say two weeks from now the toxicology reports come back and RN an MS have an extreme level of a certain drug or poison. All indications point to one maybe two murders case is now reopened and you now have given a defense attorney something to bite onto during trial. That one piece of the case possibly tainted and detectives creditability questioned by the jury. I know the example I gave is kinda far fetched, but IMO I truely believe LE is being very careful. Potential suspects in this case have or have access to a lot of money, which could pay for one heck of a defense team.

Lawgirl
07-25-2011, 12:05 PM
Interesting... I wonder what 'rocky' means?

And, I don't care how devoted I thought someone was to their partner, I wouldn't come to their defense in the media when they never even issued a statement about that persons violent death.

And, I brought this up earlier ...


I believe Shacknai is an officer of this charity. I would not ask for contributions to my own charity when a family death occurs.



????? SO, he finishes reading him a story and tries to leave (isn't this the event that had more to it and she says 'you can't leave me?").

Well, as a woman, I'm going to say...you read the boy a bed time story so it's probably late in the evening. Now you get in your car and want to take off... ummm sounds to me like suspicious behavior. If my husband wanted to leave late in the evening when I ask him not to leave me...it sounds to me like trouble. Maybe he's already seeing Rebecca by this time? I have wondered if he cheated on Dina with Rebecca which caused so much turmoil in their marriage...just a thought.

~n/t~
07-25-2011, 12:15 PM
Taken from http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2011/07/16/bizarre-death-at-arizona-ceos-mansion-grips-coronado-island/

WTH does this mean. Near the stairs.

On Monday, the 6-year-old son of Jonah Shacknai, CEO of Scottsdale-based Medicis Pharmaceutical Corp., was hospitalized. The boy had suffered serious injuries in a fall near the mansion’s main staircase.

Well....let's see. So far we have:

Down the stairs
From the stairs
Near the stairs


and....LE won't say what happened. :innocent:

peace9274
07-25-2011, 12:20 PM
Taken from http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-news/2011/07/16/bizarre-death-at-arizona-ceos-mansion-grips-coronado-island/

WTH does this mean. Near the stairs.

On Monday, the 6-year-old son of Jonah Shacknai, CEO of Scottsdale-based Medicis Pharmaceutical Corp., was hospitalized. The boy had suffered serious injuries in a fall near the mansion’s main staircase.

BBM

I thought the same thing and then remembered that "owling" and "planking", among young people,
had been mentioned several times in the threads here, with questions about whether either one played
a part in MS' fall.

Since I wasn't aware of either, I googled both. Apparently, a person has him/herself photo'd in a "plank"
or "owl" position in an unusual place & then places it on their Facebook page.

One of the photos at the site where I googled, showed a girl "perched" on a stair or balcony railing in an
owl/birl-like position. She was smiling, but to me it looked scary & dangerous. Other photos showed planking
being done on actual stairs.. and other areas that looked more dangerous.

When mentioned in one of the comments, the person had wondered if possibly the 13 yr old & MS were
involved in staging themselves on the balcony railing above the foyer, in either position when the fall took place.

cluciano63
07-25-2011, 12:23 PM
I have seen photos or footage of many crime scenes which are worked under an awning of some sort that the CSI teams bring with them. There is no excuse for not doing that much, would not have disturbed anything and would not have required access to the home. I think LE is using the search warrant as an excuse now that there is some flap about leaving her exposed all day long. They screwed up, IMO. Of course there would be news helipcopters for a crime scene at a mansion of someone with this type of money.

time
07-25-2011, 12:23 PM
IMO, JS does not directly benefit from donations made to Whispering Hope Ranch Foundation. He is a director on the board that helps guide the non-profit’s (?) direction. The beneficiaries are the children and the animals. Sounds like a beautiful organization.



I hadn't even thought about him personally benefitting financially.

I just think you don't promote your own personal causes. It is a way to raise attention to HIS charity work making him look benevolent and caring. He does have some influence over what they do and hence has an interest in where the money is spent. He does benefit career wise by being on the board of directors or whatever for different nonprofits ... that's mostly why people agree to do that. And, as you can see, others have now come forward that he worked with on charities and vouched for him. They probably didn't see anything but a positive public face on the relationship, they also do not want bad publicity to reflect on their charity. Besides, how can you speak ill of someone who is donating their time to people in need?

peace9274
07-25-2011, 12:32 PM
Owling & Planking
Links with articles & photos:

Owling: The new planking? - BlogPost - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/owling-the-new-planking/2011/07/12/gIQAaLerAI_blog.html)

'Owling' Is The New 'Planking': Pics, Videos, Links, News (http://www.buzzfeed.com/toddvanluling/owling-is-the-new-planking)

kljohnson0458
07-25-2011, 12:34 PM
BBM

I thought the same thing and then remembered that "owling" and "planking", among young people,
had been mentioned several times in the threads here, with questions about whether either one played
a part in MS' fall.

Since I wasn't aware of either, I googled both. Apparently, a person has him/herself photo'd in a "plank"
or "owl" position in an unusual place & then places it on their Facebook page.

One of the photos at the site where I googled, showed a girl "perched" on a stair or balcony railing in an
owl/birl-like position. She was smiling, but to me it looked scary & dangerous. Other photos showed planking
being done on actual stairs.. and other areas that looked more dangerous.

When mentioned in one of the comments, the person had wondered if possibly the 13 yr old & MS were
involved in staging themselves on the balcony railing above the foyer, in either position when the fall took place.

Thanks. Back many pages I asked about the new rage of planking. I work with lots of women whose kids are doing it. I think this could really be a possibility. At the rate we're going we'll have 100 possibilities before LE talks.

Quester
07-25-2011, 12:39 PM
I hadn't even thought about him personally benefitting financially.

I just think you don't promote your own personal causes. It is a way to raise attention to HIS charity work making him look benevolent and caring. He does have some influence over what they do and hence has an interest in where the money is spent. He does benefit career wise by being on the board of directors or whatever for different nonprofits ... that's mostly why people agree to do that. And, as you can see, others have now come forward that he worked with on charities and vouched for him. They probably didn't see anything but a positive public face on the relationship, they also do not want bad publicity to reflect on their charity. Besides, how can you speak ill of someone who is donating their time to people in need?

Some valid points, Time!

I guess, then, that this could be a PR conundrum for JS if others perceive this as you do.

peace9274
07-25-2011, 12:44 PM
Thanks. Back many pages I asked about the new rage of planking. I work with lots of women whose kids are doing it. I think this could really be a possibility. At the rate we're going we'll have 100 possibilities before LE talks.

Thanks, kljohnson... you saved me a hunting trip, to look for where it was mentioned.
Ever since I read your previous comments, & then googled owling & planking, I have thought about this.

From the beginning, tumbling down carpeted stairs just didn't do it for me.
I didn't buy it!

'Owling' Is The New 'Planking': Pics, Videos, Links, News (http://www.buzzfeed.com/toddvanluling/owling-is-the-new-planking)

4Jacy
07-25-2011, 12:47 PM
I do not take this memorial fund as accepting donations to bury her, but for setting something up to honour her memory.

That also speaks volumns to me. Why accept donations when her boyfriend is a milliionaire and could do that all by himself?

askfornina
07-25-2011, 12:49 PM
BBM

I thought the same thing and then remembered that "owling" and "planking", among young people,
had been mentioned several times in the threads here, with questions about whether either one played
a part in MS' fall.

Since I wasn't aware of either, I googled both. Apparently, a person has him/herself photo'd in a "plank"
or "owl" position in an unusual place & then places it on their Facebook page.

One of the photos at the site where I googled, showed a girl "perched" on a stair or balcony railing in an
owl/birl-like position. She was smiling, but to me it looked scary & dangerous. Other photos showed planking
being done on actual stairs.. and other areas that looked more dangerous.

When mentioned in one of the comments, the person had wondered if possibly the 13 yr old & MS were
involved in staging themselves on the balcony railing above the foyer, in either position when the fall took place.

i'm 17, and i hadn't heard of either before this case. i thought that planking strictly had to do with stairs based on context clues, but now that you put it this way, it explains why a few days ago a girl on my FB page uploaded a picture of herself in "plank" form on top of a refrigerator. huh. go figure.

time
07-25-2011, 12:52 PM
I guess it was never said what alerted Adam... we're assuming he woke up and walked out of the guest house, I guess?

At first, I assumed it just happened and she was barely alive or just died from the hanging, but I guess we have no confirmation on when she died?

It's possible Adam found her much sooner and called Jonah? Hope they've checked out all those phone records. When was Jonah last in touch with Rebecca or Adam?

I really am not sure that is a scarf on her neck, but it is probable. If so, I think there are a limited number of possibilities as to why it's there (I can't tell if it is just beside her or around her neck though).

1. it was used as a gag
2. it was used to initially strangle her whether that resulted in death or not or was just to control/threaten her
3. she had it on already and someone just didn't bother removing it

It still seems to me she must have been previous hogtied, just a thought. An no one said she was found hanging by her neck did they, not LE, not Adam?

Ok, one more thought ... maybe Rebecca wasn't allowed to go to the hospital (but Dina's sister was there, right?). What if Rebecca found out late Tues night that Jonah wasn't even at the hospital? That wouldn't look very good if you are grieving and telling everyone you are holding vigil, if you wouldn't let the woman in your life come to the hospital when she really could have - doesn't mean she had to be in ICU.

jstwondering
07-25-2011, 12:55 PM
"Danielle Steel, the best-selling writer who owns the other Spreckels mansion, the one built by Adolph Spreckels in San Francisco, would be hard-pressed to conjure up a meatier hook for a mystery novel."

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/24/aftermath-coronado-mansion-deaths-some-it-noir/

Thanks for finding this. I had forgotten about this.

I apologize in advance if this has been mentioned already as I am behind but wanted to comment on the link above. Author of link (not you, Curious, because your find was fascinating to me) was poorly informed or unitentionally insensitve to not mention that Danielle Steele's son OD'd on heroine after being severely depressed. I would think deaths of sons in Spreckles mansions would be hard on that author. JMO

http://ssristories.com/show.php?item=1514

time
07-25-2011, 12:56 PM
Some valid points, Time!

I guess, then, that this could be a PR conundrum for JS if others perceive this as you do.

Yeah, but then again, maybe I'm tainted! :wink:

Julessleuther
07-25-2011, 12:57 PM
I read through all the posts and did not see this mentioned....

Perhaps the sister, who was at the house (and then whisked away) did something on purpose to the boy, and he was killed. Perhaps Rebecca did not want to remain quiet about the incident, and was killed to silence her. That is the only reason I can think of to have the sister removed from the situation so quickly and sent away.

The airport is about 20-25 minutes from the Spreckels mansion, depending on bridge traffic.

We were in Coronado for the week when this was all going on, and honestly, other than outside of the Spreckel's Mansion, you would not know there was a crime. We did not stay at the Dell, so did not watch the comings and goings all the time, but the village seemed the same as usual.

pferrin
07-25-2011, 01:00 PM
I believe others came up with this scenario very early..but here goes. I believe Maxie and GS were playing at the top of the staircase..I think Maxie was owling..perhaps shown how by big sis. She was teasing with him..perhaps tickling him and he fell. He hit the chandalier on the way tothe floor.

Perhaps when GS told JS she said RN did something and JS wanted to make someone repondisible for beloved son's injury. Or maybe GS told DS that RN was respondsible. So IMO this could all be about a 13 year old lying. Often parents would rather believe their child than any adult.

I am still a bit Hinky about AS coming in town to help his brother. If they were not that close then this makes no sense. How was he helpful..she is a tugboat operator..he cant run medicis..what was his purpose there...how did he help.

scorekeeper
07-25-2011, 01:07 PM
So would that balcony area be the opened area at the top of the stairs and just off the master bedroom?

I don't think she was found in the master bedroom; the balcony was over one of the bedrooms over the kitchen/dining.....if you overlay the second floor on top of the main floor. there were pictures of the remodel showing the balcony. the new window picture is for the dining room, i think

http://www.dndb.info/featured18-1-2.htm



sorry if someone already posted this

Dum-Dum Sucker
07-25-2011, 01:17 PM
I wonder if Rebecca was murdered to shut her up, so she wouldn't tell what she knew about Maxie's death.

And perhaps Rebecca's murder was done in such a horrendous fashion in order to shut up anybody to whom she may have divulged the real story of Maxie's death.

jmo

ETA: sorry, Julessleuther - I had just jumped on the thread - hadn't seen your post

peace9274
07-25-2011, 01:22 PM
I don't think she was found in the master bedroom; the balcony was over one of the bedrooms over the kitchen/dining.....if you overlay the second floor on top of the main floor. there were pictures of the remodel showing the balcony. the new window picture is for the dining room, i think

http://www.dndb.info/featured18-1-2.htm



sorry if someone already posted this

I agree.

(They sure did a beautiful remodeling job on the kitchen, especially by putting the big window in.)

Wendy101
07-25-2011, 01:23 PM
I wonder if Rebecca was murdered to shut her up, so she wouldn't tell what she knew about Maxie's death.

And perhaps Rebecca's murder was done in such a horrendous fashion in order to shut up anybody to whom she may have divulged the real story of Maxie's death.

jmo

IMO the only person JS would protect is his daughter GS. If GS intentionally harmed lil Max and Rebecca new it - I think JS would protect his daughter and want Rebecca to shut up about the cause of Maxies death... for what it's worth, I don't think this is what happened.....

Paladine
07-25-2011, 01:23 PM
I really think she was very conscious when this happened to her - this was revenge - an eye for an eye - in my opinion.

I have 2 scenarios. 1 is the one you mentioned above. Very reasonable, imo.

The 2nd revolves around the 911 caller and the quick absence from the scene. I wonder if Rebecca saw something related to Maxies death and needed to be quieted? Hence, the quick return to SC and a criminal defense attorney who cannot talk to their client. I'm not saying the 911 caller did anything to Rebecca...I'm thinking someone who loves the 911 caller, and blamed Rebecca for the 'accident' in the first place, righttfully or not, took retribution for the death, and also made sure Rebecca would never tell what really happened to Maxie.

i.b.nora
07-25-2011, 01:28 PM
I don't think she was found in the master bedroom; the balcony was over one of the bedrooms over the kitchen/dining.....if you overlay the second floor on top of the main floor. there were pictures of the remodel showing the balcony. the new window picture is for the dining room, i think

http://www.dndb.info/featured18-1-2.htm



sorry if someone already posted this
Thank you for finding and posting the link for that remodel which was done in 1982, almost 30 years ago.

From the description:
* The added space gave the room a much different feel.
o It created room for a breakfast area overlooking the back courtyard
o The window brought in much needed natural light that turned a dungeon into a bright and cheerful space.
o The new window was designed to look so similar to an existing adjoining window that it looks much more like an original part of the home than the original windows that it replaced.

It does help to understand the layout of that part of the house.

time
07-25-2011, 01:28 PM
I believe others came up with this scenario very early..but here goes. I believe Maxie and GS were playing at the top of the staircase..I think Maxie was owling..perhaps shown how by big sis. She was teasing with him..perhaps tickling him and he fell. He hit the chandalier on the way tothe floor.

Perhaps when GS told JS she said RN did something and JS wanted to make someone repondisible for beloved son's injury. Or maybe GS told DS that RN was respondsible. So IMO this could all be about a 13 year old lying. Often parents would rather believe their child than any adult.

I am still a bit Hinky about AS coming in town to help his brother. If they were not that close then this makes no sense. How was he helpful..she is a tugboat operator..he cant run medicis..what was his purpose there...how did he help.



There's definitely something amiss with the girl and the time frame. It could be that nothing happened involved her or Rebecca, just that they somehow thought they could get her out quick and no one would know it was JS's daughter? I'm just going through all possible explanations. What bothers me the most is if someone is interfering with her being questioned? Or else, she just went to stay over at Dina house, was questioned and someone is changing the story. It's like someone is trying very hard to erase her presence, but maybe it was a faux pas in trying to manipulate media coverage and your image as you are accustomed to. Except no one is buying it this time.

No matter what, there's something hinky about what has been reported. We have two accounts of what happened

1. GS's teenage friend (we don't know if he is relaying first hand knowledge that she left before help arrived or GS told him that?)

2. The Dog Guy, Ted Greenburg, who says

“She asked us to come get the dog, because she wanted to get to the hospital to see her child,” Greenberg said. “I understand it’s (her boyfriend’s) son, but I guess she thought of him as hers.”

“She called about 4:40 pm,” he said. “She told me about the accident and said that her daughter was also injured.”

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2011/07/rebecca-zahau-death-authorities-seal-records-push-suicide-meme/


I tend to believe Rebecca was trying to get to the hospital and boarded the dog for that reason. I also believe she never went to the hospital or we probably would know that. I'm suspecting she was told she wasn't going to get to see Max at all before they buried him and that possibly this was Dina's doing? Possibly it was so the media would only see the former couple together at the hospital.

They probably knew right away there was no hope for Max, but that they could delay taking the machines off almost indefinitely so they were not really sitting vigil as has been stated in the media?

Paladine
07-25-2011, 01:30 PM
I believe others came up with this scenario very early..but here goes. I believe Maxie and GS were playing at the top of the staircase..I think Maxie was owling..perhaps shown how by big sis. She was teasing with him..perhaps tickling him and he fell. He hit the chandalier on the way tothe floor.

Perhaps when GS told JS she said RN did something and JS wanted to make someone repondisible for beloved son's injury. Or maybe GS told DS that RN was respondsible. So IMO this could all be about a 13 year old lying. Often parents would rather believe their child than any adult.

I am still a bit Hinky about AS coming in town to help his brother. If they were not that close then this makes no sense. How was he helpful..she is a tugboat operator..he cant run medicis..what was his purpose there...how did he help.

Out on a limb I go ;)....we also do not know if this sibling relationship was amicable. Step-sibs can be great relationships...or filled with jealousy. Especially, where money and a parents approval are concerned.

Carpe Pacem
07-25-2011, 01:39 PM
Two thoughts, with all due respect:

If the PR firm reads here, we'll soon see a statement of sorrow/bereavement.

If a 13-year-old of mine called to tell me about a horrendous accident in her father's household, I'd want her to return home immediately to remove her from the accompanying trauma.

A call to Coronado Livery would get her over the bridge and to the airport very quickly.
A flight could be obtained there.

Wendy101
07-25-2011, 01:41 PM
Well now you guys have me seriously thinking about the possibility of GS involvement - - couple posts up regarding to possibility of GS lying and saying it was Rebeccas fault....very interesting thought IMO

scorekeeper
07-25-2011, 01:41 PM
A police source told Radar Online: 'Investigators want to confirm details of what Jonah, Adam, and Dina [Jonah's second wife, and Max's mother], have revealed to them. 'Jonah maintains that he was at the hospital when Rebecca's body was found. This is a very fluid investigation.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018570/Jonah-Shacknais-friends-defend-death-lover-Rebecca-Nalepa.html#ixzz1T8jKkAyM

BBM

Seems they are reviewing hospital tapes to verify all three of them - their comings and goings......

time
07-25-2011, 01:44 PM
A police source told Radar Online: 'Investigators want to confirm details of what Jonah, Adam, and Dina [Jonah's second wife, and Max's mother], have revealed to them. 'Jonah maintains that he was at the hospital when Rebecca's body was found. This is a very fluid investigation.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018570/Jonah-Shacknais-friends-defend-death-lover-Rebecca-Nalepa.html#ixzz1T8jKkAyM

BBM

Seems they are reviewing hospital tapes to verify all three of them - their comings and goings......


scorekeeper ... what was said about John being in San Diego? Remember that?

Paladine
07-25-2011, 01:54 PM
I read through all the posts and did not see this mentioned....

Perhaps the sister, who was at the house (and then whisked away) did something on purpose to the boy, and he was killed. Perhaps Rebecca did not want to remain quiet about the incident, and was killed to silence her. That is the only reason I can think of to have the sister removed from the situation so quickly and sent away. The airport is about 20-25 minutes from the Spreckels mansion, depending on bridge traffic.We were in Coronado for the week when this was all going on, and honestly, other than outside of the Spreckel's Mansion, you would not know there was a crime. We did not stay at the Dell, so did not watch the comings and goings all the time, but the village seemed the same as usual.

RBBM

I've been wondering about this from the beginning...and it is still where my gut leads me.

Wendy101
07-25-2011, 01:55 PM
A police source told Radar Online: 'Investigators want to confirm details of what Jonah, Adam, and Dina [Jonah's second wife, and Max's mother], have revealed to them. 'Jonah maintains that he was at the hospital when Rebecca's body was found. This is a very fluid investigation.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018570/Jonah-Shacknais-friends-defend-death-lover-Rebecca-Nalepa.html#ixzz1T8jKkAyM

BBM

Seems they are reviewing hospital tapes to verify all three of them - their comings and goings......

Who cares where Jonah was when Rebeccas body was found?? Don't they want to know where he was when the body was hung?

defense101
07-25-2011, 01:57 PM
BBM

I thought the same thing and then remembered that "owling" and "planking", among young people,
had been mentioned several times in the threads here, with questions about whether either one played
a part in MS' fall.

Since I wasn't aware of either, I googled both. Apparently, a person has him/herself photo'd in a "plank"
or "owl" position in an unusual place & then places it on their Facebook page.

One of the photos at the site where I googled, showed a girl "perched" on a stair or balcony railing in an
owl/birl-like position. She was smiling, but to me it looked scary & dangerous. Other photos showed planking
being done on actual stairs.. and other areas that looked more dangerous.

When mentioned in one of the comments, the person had wondered if possibly the 13 yr old & MS were
involved in staging themselves on the balcony railing above the foyer, in either position when the fall took place. Or it could have been simply as a 6 year old sliding down the banister and going over, as well with it being the sister who phoned 911 I would say she was with him at the time of the accident. IMO

Paladine
07-25-2011, 01:59 PM
Just a question: When I google map the address in Coronado, I get the house but when I go to streetview, the screen goes BLANK; it will not give me streetview.

When I mapquest.ca the address I get streetview.

Can anyone else get street view of the Shacknai home on Google Maps? Or is this just my PC glitch?

Quester
07-25-2011, 02:02 PM
Just a question: When I google map the address in Coronado, I get the house but when I go to streetview, the screen goes BLANK; it will not give me streetview.

When I mapquest.ca the address I get streetview.

Can anyone else get street view of the Shacknai home on Google Maps? Or is this just my PC glitch?

Through Google Maps, I can and just did street view the mansion.

sdcali
07-25-2011, 02:06 PM
It could be that GS' flight was already in play--she was returning home to SC already, when Max's accident occurred. But it makes more sense to me, if that were the case, that her flight would be abandoned and no one in that house would even be thinking about that. Everyone would be focused on Max. So that leads me to think that perhaps there is a lot more to GS' immediate departure.

On that same note, was ES there too? No one mentions him. Rebecca could have referred to GS as "her daughter" when reporting that her daughter was injured too, the same way she referred to Max as "her son".

I believe RN was murdered. Unless her clothes were found outside, at the courtyard, she would have had to have stripped out of her clothes and walked naked through the house, down the stairs and outside and it all just seems like too much preplanning for someone so wrought with guilt to have been able to plan and carry out.

The loud music (party), "violent" nature of her death (as described by LE) lead me to suspect murder over suicide.

Trying to keep up with the posts...whew!

Paladine
07-25-2011, 02:06 PM
Through Google Maps, I can and just did street view the mansion.

Thanks, Quester. Frustrating...PC glitches.

Lawgirl
07-25-2011, 02:09 PM
I believe others came up with this scenario very early..but here goes. I believe Maxie and GS were playing at the top of the staircase..I think Maxie was owling..perhaps shown how by big sis. She was teasing with him..perhaps tickling him and he fell. He hit the chandalier on the way tothe floor.

Perhaps when GS told JS she said RN did something and JS wanted to make someone repondisible for beloved son's injury. Or maybe GS told DS that RN was respondsible. So IMO this could all be about a 13 year old lying. Often parents would rather believe their child than any adult.

I am still a bit Hinky about AS coming in town to help his brother. If they were not that close then this makes no sense. How was he helpful..she is a tugboat operator..he cant run medicis..what was his purpose there...how did he help.

In my opinion, we don't know for sure that he and his brother do not get along - and even if they did not - that had nothing to do with Maxie. If Maxie was critically hurt, it was his nephew and I think any uncle/aunt would run to be at their bedside especially given the circumstances.

justbetweenus
07-25-2011, 02:17 PM
I read through all the posts and did not see this mentioned....

Perhaps the sister, who was at the house (and then whisked away) did something on purpose to the boy, and he was killed. Perhaps Rebecca did not want to remain quiet about the incident, and was killed to silence her. That is the only reason I can think of to have the sister removed from the situation so quickly and sent away.

The airport is about 20-25 minutes from the Spreckels mansion, depending on bridge traffic.

We were in Coronado for the week when this was all going on, and honestly, other than outside of the Spreckel's Mansion, you would not know there was a crime. We did not stay at the Dell, so did not watch the comings and goings all the time, but the village seemed the same as usual.

I really don't have any suspicion with this girl what so ever. I think I might be the only one too lol.

She lived in SC. Maybe she was scheduled to fly back home that same morning. Maybe that is where they were heading when Max had the accident.

I think I'm on my final belief that Max's head trauma was not caused from falling downstairs, although I do believe it was an accident. I think Rebecca did something in a moment of rage but did not mean to hurt him, and made it like he had fallen downstairs.

Whoever killed Rebecca tortured her for the real answers, and for her to pay for what she did.

elementry
07-25-2011, 02:20 PM
IMO the only person JS would protect is his daughter GS. If GS intentionally harmed lil Max and Rebecca new it - I think JS would protect his daughter and want Rebecca to shut up about the cause of Maxies death... for what it's worth, I don't think this is what happened.....

No doubt piling on the trauma of her little brother virtually dying before her eyes, then eventually dealing with the fact that dad's live-in companion died within 48 hours of the first trauma in a perverse suicide/(murder?), will do wonders for the girl's psyche. And if GS did somehow inadvertently contribute to AS's tragedy? Kid's gonna need a good psychologist after this mess - in any case. Should we add in that her dad may soon be a murder defendant?

justbetweenus
07-25-2011, 02:28 PM
I don't think she was found in the master bedroom; the balcony was over one of the bedrooms over the kitchen/dining.....if you overlay the second floor on top of the main floor. there were pictures of the remodel showing the balcony. the new window picture is for the dining room, i think

http://www.dndb.info/featured18-1-2.htm



sorry if someone already posted this

Thanks scorekeeper. I'm bad at wording things. I meant to say the area where the balcony would be. Someone up above (I'm behind on posts)posted a pic of the blueprint and marked the area which was where I believed it to me.

Dum-Dum Sucker
07-25-2011, 02:31 PM
RBBM

I've been wondering about this from the beginning...and it is still where my gut leads me.

Me too, Paladine. This was my very first scenario, and my gut won't let it go.

Paladine
07-25-2011, 02:40 PM
Me too, Paladine. This was my very first scenario, and my gut won't let it go.

Good to know I'm not alone...now, I feel like we have to wait and see. I have suspicions...but no hard facts...I hope it's throughness...and caution that's keeping it all hush-hush.

elementry
07-25-2011, 02:42 PM
Thanks scorekeeper. I'm bad at wording things. I meant to say the area where the balcony would be. Someone up above (I'm behind on posts)posted a pic of the blueprint and marked the area which was where I believed it to me.

Perhaps notably, the spot at which this hanging was staged, at the end of the side wing, would be an ideal spot to be viewed from the master bedroom window. Either for JS to discover in horror; or for someone to witness an execution?

4Jacy
07-25-2011, 02:50 PM
I believe others came up with this scenario very early..but here goes. I believe Maxie and GS were playing at the top of the staircase..I think Maxie was owling..perhaps shown how by big sis. She was teasing with him..perhaps tickling him and he fell. He hit the chandalier on the way tothe floor.

Perhaps when GS told JS she said RN did something and JS wanted to make someone repondisible for beloved son's injury. Or maybe GS told DS that RN was respondsible. So IMO this could all be about a 13 year old lying. Often parents would rather believe their child than any adult.

I am still a bit Hinky about AS coming in town to help his brother. If they were not that close then this makes no sense. How was he helpful..she is a tugboat operator..he cant run medicis..what was his purpose there...how did he help.

Hi, pferrin :seeya: The fact that GS was sent back to SC ASAP is a big factor, to me at least. Either she was the cause of what happened to little Maxie, or they thought she may have been. As you say, she could have been lying to JS and Dina and blaming Rebecca. Where was the funeral, in AZ? Did GS attend?

I am also confused as to why AS came to San Diego. Did he even go to the hospital? What, if any, help was he to JS? He left town immediately also. Did he attend the funeral?

Someone mentioned earlier about wanting the phone records from both brothers. If there had been calls prior to AS "finding" Rebecca that would not prove anything. AS could say he was still in the guesthouse and JS called him, giving AS an update on Max's condition. So, again, what purpose did AS serve his brother?

Also, I like the theory (not mine) that Rebecca was tortured, hogtied and killed, not only to get rid of her, but to send a strong message to anyone she may have confided in.

Another thing that has bothered me from the beginning, and as I've stated before: Where were all the servants? Butlers, maids, housekeepers, gardeners, cooks. And why no security or security cameras?


The silence is deafening. This is going to be a big one folks! :worms:

Paladine
07-25-2011, 02:51 PM
Rebecca must have had friends...WHERE are they? Speak up, I say.

Was Rebecca an angry woman who would hurt a child?

Was she happy with Jonah?

Was Dina an 'issue'?

Did Dina attempt to make herself an 'issue'?

Did Dina resent Rebecca?

Did Rebecca start seeing Jonah during or shortly after the Dina breakup?

Was there jealousy?

Was Jonah unfaithful, controlling or abusive?

WAS he going to propose? What was the party for?

Did any friends get a call from Rebecca cancelling the party? What did she say?

Did she make it to the hospital? Why not?

I JUST WISH someone on Rebeccas side would give some input...please, join Websleuths, comment on blogs and new stories, and pipe up, it's easy...my siggy:

“In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

BUT #1: Talk to Police.

Quester
07-25-2011, 02:57 PM
Perhaps notably, the spot at which this hanging was staged, at the end of the side wing, would be an ideal spot to be viewed from the master bedroom window. Either for JS to discover in horror; or for someone to witness an execution?

Your post gave me shivers! :eek:

elementry
07-25-2011, 03:04 PM
Your post gave me shivers! :eek:

Thanks? (I think?) i.e that's a good thing on Websleuths? It all is a bit morbid.....

Carrington
07-25-2011, 03:11 PM
I really hate to say this, but if I was a "friend" of Rebecca's I would keep my mouth shut, until the facts became known.
As in so many cases woman give up their friends when they decide a man is their life.
She gave up her old life for her new life as I see it. Maybe she felt she had nothing in common with her friends anymore or they decided for her.

I also would like to hear from them.
IMO

Lawgirl
07-25-2011, 03:16 PM
It could be that GS' flight was already in play--she was returning home to SC already, when Max's accident occurred. But it makes more sense to me, if that were the case, that her flight would be abandoned and no one in that house would even be thinking about that. Everyone would be focused on Max. So that leads me to think that perhaps there is a lot more to GS' immediate departure.

On that same note, was ES there too? No one mentions him. Rebecca could have referred to GS as "her daughter" when reporting that her daughter was injured too, the same way she referred to Max as "her son".

I believe RN was murdered. Unless her clothes were found outside, at the courtyard, she would have had to have stripped out of her clothes and walked naked through the house, down the stairs and outside and it all just seems like too much preplanning for someone so wrought with guilt to have been able to plan and carry out.

The loud music (party), "violent" nature of her death (as described by LE) lead me to suspect murder over suicide.

Trying to keep up with the posts...whew!

Another possibility is that Jonah immediately began to hate Rebecca and did not want his daughter in company of that woman - the one who allowed his child to die! As a parent, I think I would remove my child from the company of that person immediately as well.

Paladine
07-25-2011, 03:18 PM
Maybe this was posted, maybe I missed it but I want to post it again....but, boy, it made me cry...what a sad loss; aren't they all. I haven't dissected the wording, yet but not too much mention of Jonah and their life together, imo...I'm too stuck in the emotion of it, right now. R.I.P., Rebecca and prayers and thoughts go out to her Family and Friends. (WHAT a beautiful picture...)


July 24th, 2011

Statement from the Family of Rebecca ZahauRebecca Zahau, our granddaughter, daughter, sister, aunt, and cousin, was laid to rest July 23rd 2011.

People including media want to know who Rebecca Zahau was. This has been difficult to answer within the immediacy of her death. It would be hard to describe the emotions that our family has dealt with, the last eleven days.

There are no words in any dictionary or language to describe the full beauty, love, compassion, selflessness, generosity, and kindness of Rebecca. Her Zahau name was "HNIANGSINMAWII" meaning "SPRINGTIME BEAUTY" and yet she was the beauty of every season. If you had met Rebecca, you could not help but love her.

Rebecca often anticipated the needs of family, friends, and co-workers. She offered her help and would be by their side before someone even thought of asking. She provided support through actions she could take. One friend wanted to run a triathlon. Rebecca signed up for the triathlon even though she did not know how to swim. She then took swim lessons determined to support her friend. She would surprise you with her thoughtfulness. Rebecca was one of the first people to visit a friend in the hospital with whom she had no contact in many months. Rebecca always found ways to touch everyone’s life.

Rebecca lived a life in motion and was full of energy. She focused on wellness in both body and spirit. She was a fitness fanatic. She loved to take on the most challenging workout regiments such as hiking the Grand Canyon. I would call her in the morning on a Saturday or Sunday and find out that she was already back from hiking Camelback Mountain or one of the local trails in Phoenix. Rebecca was very intelligent and achieved anything she set her mind on. Rebecca valued her life and lived her life to its fullest.

Rebecca loved God, her family, and life. Rebecca lived a life that was family centric. Although there was a geographic distance between us, Rebecca always made us feel she was right here with us. She honored and admired her parents. She was a role model to her younger siblings. She adored her nephew and niece. Rebecca was taken from us far too soon. It is hard to accept that she will not be a part of our lives as her younger brother and sister get married, her nephew and niece graduate from high school, and the other many family milestones ahead of us.

We love you so much Rebecca! Your smile, your joy, your liveliness, your eagerness, your creativity, your love, and your strength will be in our hearts forever. Every sunrise, every sunset, the beauty of every season will remind us of you and your beauty. Now you are in heaven with your Lord among the beautiful, the glorious, and among the angels where you belong. You look down upon us with your smile as beautiful as always and say "I am with my Lord where there is no pain, no tears, no more sadness nor crying, and where there is no more death."

Our thoughts and prayers go out to Jonah and the Shacknai family on the loss of their son Max. We know he was a special child, who will be missed.

We appreciate the continuous outpouring of condolences from families, friends, and people in various parts of the nation and all over the world. This reflects who Rebecca was. Her legacy will continue to live in our hearts.

The Zahau Family

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Rebecca-Zahaus-Family--126121118.html

Source: She Was Compassionate and Generous: Zahau Family | NBC San Diego

Lawgirl
07-25-2011, 03:21 PM
I really hate to say this, but if I was a "friend" of Rebecca's I would keep my mouth shut, until the facts became known.
As in so many cases woman give up their friends when they decide a man is their life.
She gave up her old life for her new life as I see it. Maybe she felt she had nothing in common with her friends anymore or they decided for her.

I also would like to hear from them.
IMO

I read somewhere that her husband said that she let the wealth get to her head and that she changed a lot since she was with Jonah.

Paladine
07-25-2011, 03:24 PM
While uploading that pic of Rebecca I saw this one I uploaded a few days ago. I had wanted to bring it to the attention of ya'll to get some opinions...its from 2008, its the cover of the annual report for Jonahs company, can't recall where I found it, might have been in google images; it may have already been posted..

My question? Does this look like Dana Shacknai to anyone else? Remember...it's 2008.

Lawgirl
07-25-2011, 03:25 PM
Maybe this was posted, maybe I missed it but I want to post it again....but, boy, it made me cry...what a sad loss; aren't they all. I haven't dissected the wording, yet but not too much mention of Jonah and their life together, imo...I'm too stuck in the emotion of it, right now. R.I.P., Rebecca and prayers and thoughts go out to her Family and Friends. (WHAT a beautiful picture...)




http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Rebecca-Zahaus-Family--126121118.html

Source: She Was Compassionate and Generous: Zahau Family | NBC San Diego

R.I.P Rebecca and may God bless your soul.

Paladine
07-25-2011, 03:26 PM
I read somewhere that her husband said that she let the wealth get to her head and that she changed a lot since she was with Jonah.

An EX becomes an EX for a reason, ime...;) I'm not sure I'd want my EX to write my obit.

Quester
07-25-2011, 03:28 PM
Maybe this was posted, maybe I missed it but I want to post it again....but, boy, it made me cry...what a sad loss; aren't they all. I haven't dissected the wording, yet but not too much mention of Jonah and their life together, imo...I'm too stuck in the emotion of it, right now. R.I.P., Rebecca and prayers and thoughts go out to her Family and Friends. (WHAT a beautiful picture...)


http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Rebecca-Zahaus-Family--126121118.html

Source: She Was Compassionate and Generous: Zahau Family | NBC San Diego

Thanks for posting, Paladine!

WOW! What a beautiful message about Rebecca and generous to JS and the S family.

Tears!

gngr~snap
07-25-2011, 03:34 PM
[quote=elementry;6950974]Perhaps notably, the spot at which this hanging was staged, at the end of the side wing, would be an ideal spot to be viewed from the master bedroom window. Either for JS to discover in horror; or for someone to witness an execution?[/quote
Could be!


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1457&pictureid=12688

Bonepile
07-25-2011, 03:45 PM
First off THANKS Paladine for posting that article and tribute from Rebecca's family.

Second notice the accompanying photo and her blue dress, her blue ear rings, her blue eye shadow. That blue scarf around her neck in that backyard photo still says something more to me other than the symbolism of "immortality", but I cannot figure out what.

I also am totally shocked that JS had remained "silent" on Rebecca and her death.

May she rest in peace and may we one day soon have all the answers we so very much hope for.

Lawgirl
07-25-2011, 03:46 PM
I really don't have any suspicion with this girl what so ever. I think I might be the only one too lol.

She lived in SC. Maybe she was scheduled to fly back home that same morning. Maybe that is where they were heading when Max had the accident.

I think I'm on my final belief that Max's head trauma was not caused from falling downstairs, although I do believe it was an accident. I think Rebecca did something in a moment of rage but did not mean to hurt him, and made it like he had fallen downstairs.

Whoever killed Rebecca tortured her for the real answers, and for her to pay for what she did.

Hmmmm they say she was really fit and strong. Maybe she was showing the kids how to plank...just to be on the same page with them ...to score brownie points and then accidentlly Maxie hurts himself.

time
07-25-2011, 03:46 PM
Thanks for posting, Paladine!

WOW! What a beautiful message about Rebecca and generous to JS and the S family.

Tears!


Yes, very nice and heartbreaking. They must be in great pain.

I see t his again in that article...

Shacknai was not at the residence the evening prior to the discovery of the body nor at the time she was discovered, Curran said. He refused to reveal where Jonah Shacknai was at the time Zahau was found.

elementry
07-25-2011, 03:49 PM
Thanks for posting, Paladine!

WOW! What a beautiful message about Rebecca and generous to JS and the S family.

Tears!

Sadly, more generous than the Shacknai's non-condolence (at least publicly) to her and her family..

time
07-25-2011, 03:51 PM
While uploading that pic of Rebecca I saw this one I uploaded a few days ago. I had wanted to bring it to the attention of ya'll to get some opinions...its from 2008, its the cover of the annual report for Jonahs company, can't recall where I found it, might have been in google images; it may have already been posted..

My question? Does this look like Dana Shacknai to anyone else? Remember...it's 2008.

You mean Dina? I'd have to compare... the eye and hair color are not the same. I'd say it's not her, but photoshop?

~n/t~
07-25-2011, 03:58 PM
Sadly, more generous than the Shacknai's non-condolence (at least publicly) to her and her family..

I thought it was reported he made the funeral arrangements?? Do you think he didn't attend her funeral?

What about Maxie? Was he laid to rest? I haven't seen anything yet but could've missed it.