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x_files
07-28-2011, 02:43 PM
Agreed, it's relevant, imo. The bedwetting argument really disturbed me as a Mom. What was that about? How do 2 people argue over a childs bedwetting? Did he blame her for not doing something? Did the child have bad nerves? Did someone expect perfection? May be a million other things but it sat funny with me...

How can you get mad about a child wetting a bed?
Someone has rage issues.

scorekeeper
07-28-2011, 02:49 PM
How can you get mad about a child wetting a bed?
Someone has rage issues.

Speculation....

I know we discussed this before, could it have been possible for Maxie to be a special needs child?

God bless him.......

Quester
07-28-2011, 02:52 PM
[added my previous post for clarity here]


Hmmmmm ....... Is somebody already publicly setting up their defense?

Namely: Not guilty of murder due to temporary insanity as a result of RN having murdered the boy.



hmm..not sure what you are suggesting with this post, could you elaborate?

Just an educated hunch based on the appearance of the good Dr. (retired?, known as a hire-able consultant for trials) into this case, his having linked the two incidences, as well as the facts of the cases (as we know them to date) and the players (as much as we understand of them thus far).

pferrin
07-28-2011, 02:52 PM
pferrin,

Love your brother!! :blushing: :loveyou:

score

(seriously, please tell him thanks!!)

I did thank him..everyday he asks about anything that yall have found new on this case. He left this mornin to go to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan..they wanted me to go..but I get whiplash when I ride with him...hehehe..sibling rivalry stuff. I really am quite blessed with great family and we get to laugh a LOT.

jstwondering
07-28-2011, 02:57 PM
[Continuing to pick at parts since we have no new info (except for pferrin’s fabulous sleuthing!)]

Despite the fact that the following quoted statement made by DS about JS is shockingly revealing about DS’ fear of JS, the statement is much more telling about DS’ perceptions with regard to JS.

IMO, it implies that DS views this ongoing tumultuous relationship as a battle of life and death.

[I know: dramatic, soap opera-ish but shreds of truth?]

First off, let me say that I enjoy and look forward to your posts. Secondly, as I always say, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you...
I would say it's definitely a "battle of life and death", but since LE won't confirm or deny anything, we don't yet know if the battle was a self-fulfilling prophecy. I do agree with what was said upthread... perfect storm caused by both DS and JS.

time
07-28-2011, 03:06 PM
I saw this before, but maybe not as complete. I guess this is from a real interview.
http://www.
sandiegoreader.com/news/2011/jul/27/citylights2-hanging-question-coronado/

excerpts


DESI OCHOA, a trainer at Hollywood Fitness, a gym near the Hotel Del, where they say Coronado’s smart set goes to muscle up. Jonah and Rebecca were regulars.

"Rebecca came here and would do the step mill, the elliptical, and she probably did some of the weights. Yes, she was actually in the gym with her boyfriend on that last Friday, the 8th. He seemed a little standoffish. I got a weird vibe from him...

Who did it? I think, with the brother living in the house, maybe she was messing around with his brother, and that set things going. The kid falling down the stairs? Don’t know. But here’s the thing: one of our trainers saw Jonah here two days after it happened, after Rebecca died. He was here at the gym by himself."

Other comments


CHARLIE S., who collects cans and bottles around Coronado every day.
I collected bottles two doors away from the Spreckels house that morning. Nothing unusual. No cries, no people rushing around.


Sorry if these have been posted ... I think some of t his has

AnaTeresa
07-28-2011, 03:09 PM
Hmmmmm ....... Is somebody already publicly setting up their defense?

Namely: Not guilty of murder due to temporary insanity as a result of RN having murdered the boy.

I interpreted Dr. Spitz's statement that the individual bodies and circumstances shouldn't be looked at individually, but collaboratively, since they occurred in the same area, under questionable circumstances, within a short period of time. Basically, no different than what a lot of posters on the thread have said.

It's not really "setting up a defense" - he was saying what they needed to look at. He's not even seen the medical records, so he can only say how they would go about evaluating it. He has no more insight into this case than we do. Also, my perception of him from a telephone call is that he's not likely to go along with a theory of the case if he does not feel the science doesn't go along with it. It's why the firm I work for didn't use him in the case we asked him to look over - his medical opinion wasn't good for our client. He's very stubborn and set in his opinions, once made.

Curious Me
07-28-2011, 03:14 PM
What a beautiful and loving tribute to Rebecca in the funeral video. After seeing this I am more convinced than ever she would be incapable of suicide, mostly because she loved life too much. There are so very few facts about this case, and I think $$ can buy a lot of silence!! Any other situation like this and reporters would be all over it. There has been a literal blackout on her death. Also a blackout on Dina, who is my prime suspect for this murder . . . motive? rage, revenge, anger. Maxxi was her last thread of connection to her former husband. My other thought is that she was dead before she was hung over the balcony, otherwise her head would be very discolored, which it is not in the photos. MOO

BBM That makes sense. I see more discoloration on her thigh area than her head.

jjenny
07-28-2011, 03:14 PM
I agree how could anyone be angry at MS because of this?Bedwetting can occur for many reasons. DS is a psychologist. I think we can all agree she loved her son. If it were me and JS was disciplining MS in front of me...well just stand back. I would ask JS to step in another room and tell him that this is a medical issue and for him to let a doctor evaluate and treat MS. How sad. :sigh:

We don't know the details and which one of them argued about what.
Usually people assume it's the father who was not happy, but we don't know that for that particular case, do we?

time
07-28-2011, 03:17 PM
Agreed, it's relevant, imo. The bedwetting argument really disturbed me as a Mom. What was that about? How do 2 people argue over a childs bedwetting? Did he blame her for not doing something? Did the child have bad nerves? Did someone expect perfection? May be a million other things but it sat funny with me...


Yeah ... it caught my eye also. They maybe got in fights about almost anything though. I should have put these incidents into a time frame. Do we know when they were officially separated/filed? I'm curious because that would probably mean Jonah was going to Dina's to see Max? Sometimes those times would be the weirdest. Like maybe he was trying to still do the daily things you do when together - tuck in bed, etc.?

Maybe someone blamed the bedwetting on the relationship problems, like Dina blamed Jonah or visa versa? Maybe the bed wasn't changed right away? Maybe they argued about who was going to change it how to approach Max about it? Maybe he wet the bed after they had an altercation?

Quester
07-28-2011, 03:18 PM
First off, let me say that I enjoy and look forward to your posts. Secondly, as I always say, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you...
I would say it's definitely a "battle of life and death", but since LE won't confirm or deny anything, we don't yet know if the battle was a self-fulfilling prophecy. I do agree with what was said upthread... perfect storm caused by both DS and JS.

Thanks for the kind words, jstwondering!

I completely agree with you on your paranoid statement [haha - that didn't come out right but you know what I mean].

And also, very nice addition of the phrase: "self-fulfilling prophecy"! If true, it does add an interesting and fateful dimension to this double tragedy.

gngr~snap
07-28-2011, 03:27 PM
Hey sugar..yes the police said her car was home and they did run her plates..they even asked neighbors. The disturbance..I believe..was the neighbors at JS house seeing the rescue pick up Maxie and then taking RN and GS to the ER behind the ambulance. The police never indicated a disturbance nor did dispatch.
So if the neighbors said there was a disturbance to media ..IMO it was rescue and police there because of Maxies fall.Not 2 women fighting.

I have looked at hospitals on maps ..closest to JS home is about 10 blocks away..there is a golf course next to it. JS made it to hospital very quickly..so he was only a few blocks from hospital. all of this is very close..IMO
CBS 8 affiliate, neighbors reported a 'police disturbance' at Dina Shacknai's home on the day of Max's ... I can't find the original story anymore.
It's a blank explorer page?
It was probably police knocking loud on her door.
I was thinking if shortly after midnight at DS's 7/11- maybe JS went to get kids from Mom's houes for the weekend (late Sun night)... if there was a big fight that between DS and JS and both kids were injured. Max sustained a head injury the steps was made up and Rebecca wasn't going to take the blame for JS and DS behaving like wild animals.
-just working out different ideas.
but I think people just saw police looking for her.

Curious Me
07-28-2011, 03:38 PM
You may be right. She may have been dead already.
Usually in suicide by hanging (where the airwat was cut off not allowing oxygen to the brain) you would only see black/dark hands and feet. Maybe a little discoloration around the mouth.
The blood is pulled by gravity.Their faces are still flesh tone.

Not that anyone wants to see but for those with a morbid curiosity...
about suicide by hanging *photos google it and go to images.
I have a link if anyone wants to see not photoshopped/fake pics.
(they are black and white):waitasec: I think

Black faces come from traumatic hangings where blood vessels or arteries are broken. This can happen due to jumping or the sheer weight of the person.
IMO she was murdered already dead before the staging was done.She was hogtied, layed in the grass while a table was located, the rope was tied and toessed toward the ground in the dark. the french doors were shut. When trying to retrieve the rope from the balcony to set the scene the old table broke.- so 911 was called and told of the "intended" scenario as instructed by ?whomever? to get their payday.
The media HAD to say she commited suicide in the nude by hanging herself.

The mnasion did not have security cameras but it might have had a security system. Looks like a sign in the grass by the front door. If it was set that night
makes me think she knew her attacker. -well that and how violent police said it was.

BBM Good post, gngr~snap.

rosetattoo
07-28-2011, 03:43 PM
I agree how could anyone be angry at MS because of this?Bedwetting can occur for many reasons. DS is a psychologist. I think we can all agree she loved her son. If it were me and JS was disciplining MS in front of me...well just stand back. I would ask JS to step in another room and tell him that this is a medical issue and for him to let a doctor evaluate and treat MS. How sad. :sigh:

I can see having a fight starting with the bed wetting. When my kids went through that stage, it could get pretty tiring to have a kid wake in the middle of the night and need sheets changed. Maybe DS said something like "why don't you take a turn doing this? Why do I always have to do it?" and JS reacted angrily. Granted fighting and swearing at each other in front of the kid, who then might feel like it was his fault, is completely inappropriate.

Quester
07-28-2011, 03:50 PM
I don't remember all the details but that reported argument over bed-wetting just reeked of passive-aggressive behavior to me.

In other words, they weren't arguing over the bed-wetting, they were indirectly arguing about everything else.

gngr~snap
07-28-2011, 04:04 PM
BBM

..At the press conf.Tim Curran of the sheriff's dept. announced that they found a woman who was deceased,it's my opinion that some news articles mistakenly heard 'distress' and went with that.


http://www.10news.com/news/28534601/detail.html

- Police officers responding to a report of a possible death
shortly before 7 a.m. Wednesday found a woman in "distress"
at the 27-room manor, according to the San Diego County Sheriff's Department...and called in paramedics to administer aid
The police were responding to a death! Why would they call in medics?
* I don't know sounds lke she may have had a pulse. Why would they have brought the cervical collar if she was dead? :banghead:
Remember her trainer said she was a fighter!

<snip>
-... Medics pronounced her dead at the scene a short time later.
And maybe that's not what happened we don't have the 911 call.
They they have analyzed it!

Authorities said Adam Shacknai called 911 to report the death.
Adam reported her dead! Major red flag unless she was in rigors or he thought she had been up there long enough.

http://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm#page22 (http://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm#page22)

In this case, the caller immediately declared the mortality of the victim. The subsequent investigation revealed that the caller had been romantically interested in his neighbor. He later confessed that he killed the victim because she refused to date him.
In the homicides in which mortality was not obvious, 23 percent of the callers accepted the death of the victim. Of this total, all were guilty of the homicide.

WestCoastLady
07-28-2011, 04:24 PM
http://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm#page22 (http://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm#page22)

Thank you for this - very interesting read!

Salem
07-28-2011, 04:27 PM
WARNING:




ALSO - please remember, we do NOT sleuth minors, we do NOT post identifying information about minors, we do NOT name minors.

If a minor is a victim or has been publically named by LE as a perp, then their name may be used. In this particular case, the ONLY minor that may be identified by name is Max, because he was a victim. ALL other minors are OFF THE TABLE.

This is a strict rule and your cooperation is appreciated.

Thanks,

Salem

ETA: Further explanation on minor names. Even when quoting from MSM or other sources, if the minor is not the victim or the perp, we change the name to initials. We do NOT quote the name of the minor. This is to protect the minor. Please keep that in mind. Try to put yourself in the shoes of the parent of that minor. What would you think if your child's name was splattered all over the web.

Thanks Guys!

There is a lot of sleuthing of minors in this thread. Anyone who posts additional information about minors and their facebooks or other social networking accounts after this post will be recommended for a TO.

We DO NOT sleuth minors.

Post lands at random.

MizStery
07-28-2011, 04:31 PM
We don't know the details and which one of them argued about what.
Usually people assume it's the father who was not happy, but we don't know that for that particular case, do we?

Hi Jenny,
In one of the articles i.e "Reports allege history of domestic violence" I thought there was mention of a incident between Dina and JS who both consider themselves academics ....over some issue. I was certain it was the bedwetting. But,I have said it before and I will say it again I have been wrong. I looked and cannot find the article. But we are on thread #4 and I have read about a bizillion articles. :confused:

I do agree with other posters who point out that they clashed on most things. And I agree that we do not know whom or what or even which parent JS or
DS instigated the bedwetting argument. I apologize to add confusion to a story that you need a roadmap to follow. :banghead:

sargenet
07-28-2011, 04:42 PM
WARNING:

We DO NOT sleuth minors.

.

My apologies. I have edited my comment. I actually wasn't trying to sleuth the minors... I was trying to find info on DS and AS on social sites. Especially since nothing has been heard about DS in the last few weeks. I ran across some photos that were just heartbreaking when looking for info on DS....wasn't even expecting to find the photos at all and commented on them in error (newbie here!!). Have removed original info..

katydid23
07-28-2011, 04:51 PM
I can see having a fight starting with the bed wetting. When my kids went through that stage, it could get pretty tiring to have a kid wake in the middle of the night and need sheets changed. Maybe DS said something like "why don't you take a turn doing this? Why do I always have to do it?" and JS reacted angrily. Granted fighting and swearing at each other in front of the kid, who then might feel like it was his fault, is completely inappropriate.

I went through a period of bed wetting when I was about 6 or 7 and I can remember my divorced parents bickering about it , not knowing I could hear them. My mom was convinced that if nobody gave me anything to eat or drink after dinnertime that I would not be able to wet my bed. She would blame others for giving me water or juice 'too late' when I soiled the sheets. Too bad she didn't recognize the connection between bed wetting and sexual abuse in my case though. I can see how it is much easier to think it is from drinking water after 9 pm.

gngr~snap
07-28-2011, 04:54 PM
That was very nice. Thanks for sharing. She did like her blue eyeshadow. Something made me think while watching the tribute, what if she was pregnant when she died. Just adding more rumour lol.
Ok TOTAL SPECULATION HERE
My dear Watson!:websleuther:
It was said he was "about to propose" to Rebecca.
Think he was gonna do it at the party?
Maybe that's why brother was there so quickly?
Just said because of injury since RN died?- How horrible would it be to say I came for the engagement party she didn't know about, now she's dead.
KARMA! ok this is crazy but..
DS knowing about the upcoming engagement, asks GS to gently" trip" with her brother down the stairs and go call 911. even if he is not hurt real bad.Blame it on the dog and ask RN to take it to the dog sitter. Until MS is "better..
(so he will be admitted for observation)
This gets JS out of the house for a night and RN alone.
Now she will have her chance to "off" RN in a premeditated murder scheme so she can continue to live the life she is accustomed to.
No new wife or kids to affect her alimony/child support
MS's inheritance and no young step mom to steal away her son's affections.
GS was not her daughter and didn't live with MS full time, so she might could coonvince her:shush:
ok follow me here...
DS "arranges" to be unavailable that morning.
Leaves her car at home to throw police off a bit.
GS does it but it goes
HORRIBLY WRONG!
they both fall and get injured
MS is gravely injured.
you good so far?
MS is brain dead because of her love of $
She will lose ALL the child support she had.
(maybe he had a life ins policy/many kids don't)
The life she is accustiomed to is gone as well as
any hope of seeing JS on a regular basis to drop off MS.
RN will have ALOT more of the wealth DS wanted,
and posibly children with JS that will inherit it his fortune.
she really has to eliminate her!
NOW SHE IS SEETHING MAD!:pullhair:
she goes to do the deed gets very violent
strips RN of all her dignity hogties her
and puts her on display where JS can
see her from the the picture window on the stairs
or the window in the Master bedroom in all
her glory when he comes home from the hospital for a break.
and gets out of there before sunrise.
DS returns to the her dying sons bedside to relieve JS
No one is the wiser. ONLY DS does not know that
AS was in the guest house!! :eek:
AS finds RN at sunrise, calls 911 and then JS.
JS never returns to the home.
No one can place DS there right?
but wait! what clue do we have that it WAS her?
Her MO? NOISE!!! LOUD MUSIC!!!
how many times in the last 3 yeras did police respond to
DS's home with complaints about noise??? 3-4

How many times did police respond to the
Spreckels Mansion in the last 3 years? 0
IT gets worse...:behindbar
She thinks she pulled it off.
only she will be arrested for double homocide
and spend the rest of her life in a cell, maybe even on death row,
UNLESS she mysteriuosly dies or REALLY commits suicide!
It totally blew up in her face!
She lost everything over wanting
to get rid of the other woman.
~ case solved.:giggle:
no. seriously the woman would have to be
certifiable to do that.

Morag
07-28-2011, 05:06 PM
Verry interesting- but why would GS be the least bit inclined to do a dangerous favor for her father's second wife? But the proposal and pregnancy ideas...mmmm.

time
07-28-2011, 05:08 PM
http://www.10news.com/news/28534601/detail.html

- Police officers responding to a report of a possible death
shortly before 7 a.m. Wednesday found a woman in "distress"
at the 27-room manor, according to the San Diego County Sheriff's Department...and called in paramedics to administer aid
The police were responding to a death! Why would they call in medics?
* I don't know sounds lke she may have had a pulse. Why would they have brought the cervical collar if she was dead? :banghead:
Remember her trainer said she was a fighter!

<snip>
-... Medics pronounced her dead at the scene a short time later.
And maybe that's not what happened we don't have the 911 call.
They they have analyzed it!

Authorities said Adam Shacknai called 911 to report the death.
Adam reported her dead! Major red flag unless she was in rigors or he thought she had been up there long enough.

http://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm#page22 (http://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm#page22)

In this case, the caller immediately declared the mortality of the victim. The subsequent investigation revealed that the caller had been romantically interested in his neighbor. He later confessed that he killed the victim because she refused to date him.
In the homicides in which mortality was not obvious, 23 percent of the callers accepted the death of the victim. Of this total, all were guilty of the homicide.



Very interesting, thank you.

I wish there was more in the article about the killer making a 911 call when the victim has been dead for a while - in other words, they just walk in and find them already dead.

branwynbreeze
07-28-2011, 05:11 PM
I have a headache and am trying to catch up on thread, but a number jumbled thoughts have been going through my mind. I will try to express some as clear as possible. Heaven knows I'm not good at doing that on a good day.

1. Not sure if this has been mentioned, but:
http://www.memorialhospital.org/library/general/stress-the-3.html

Five Stages Of Grief

Denial and Isolation.
At first, we tend to deny the loss has taken place, and may withdraw from our usual social contacts. This stage may last a few moments, or longer.

Anger.
The grieving person may then be furious at the person who inflicted the hurt (even if she's dead), or at the world, for letting it happen. He may be angry with himself for letting the event take place, even if, realistically, nothing could have stopped it.

Bargaining.
Now the grieving person may make bargains with God, asking, "If I do this, will you take away the loss?"
Depression.
The person feels numb, although anger and sadness may remain underneath.

Acceptance.
This is when the anger, sadness and mourning have tapered off. The person simply accepts the reality of the loss.

From tragic deaths in my family the final stage seems at times not to be achieved or perhaps altered to a way it can be accepted. There has been incidences where I have gotten a different story depending on who I asked. My dad told me one relative was murdered, my uncle told me it was suicide. This happened when I was a small child. I believe suicide, my dad could not accept it, I think.

Some where swept up the rug. One of my cousins is a psychologist, but was shocked when I sent her news clippings/pix of her dad testifying as a child in murder of his father. She also didn't know that her father ID'd his stepfather when he committed suicide.

My uncle is the worst family gossip ever and the one to notify all when there's a pending funeral. When one of my cousins committed suicide a couple years ago he wouldn't give any details except coroner is awaiting tox report. I had to ask another cousin for details which it turned out to be connected to another family incident.

I guess my long rambling point is people may believe what is the easiest (or safest or their mental well being) for them to comprehend despite facts at time. While truth may be known in back of some minds, it's too painful to deal with. This along with PR firm may be reason no JS/DS statements.

justice be served
07-28-2011, 05:22 PM
Having read now everything on the posts - albeit without total recall! - here's my theory only for what's it worth:
JS, although obviously accomplished professionally, has perhaps evolved personally into a megalomaniac over time. His continual upgrading of wives, controlling attitude expressed by the frightening quotes per DS on police reports, narcissim with his looks, obvious PR stance which intimates that money buys public opinion (and defense!), taste in housing/company hdqtrs and legal wrangling speaks to a man that believes he is above the common person and the law.
RN, as lovely as she was, perhaps wasn't as loving or committed to JS' children. Some may have thought she was bordering on abusive to the youngest. Once MS was accidentally injured, JS blamed RN based on those intimations of abuse. JS staged the outing of RN to look like a sexual incident gone wrong based on RN's known kinky intimate tastes. During his rage (justified, of course, in his megalomaniac mind), music was turned up loud for cover up. Whether the dirty deed was done personally by JS, JS's brother or by a "for hire" (doubtful in my mind) -- JS was the real perpetrator just doing what he does best -- controlling the object of his disdain and thinking he's smart enough to make the deed look palatable with a story to match. Problem is, in his rage, it really was not thought through very well at all and it became a mish-mash of both suicide and S&M as a story. As smart as a person may be - no one thinks very well during rage.
Just my little opinion based on the blogs.

CuriousAmazon
07-28-2011, 05:28 PM
[B] DS knowing about the upcoming engagement, asks GS to gently" trip" with her brother down the stairs and go call 911. even if he is not hurt real bad.

I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this (hopefully this is okay with the Moderator)...but there's some confusion here to the relation: GS is not related to DS, so I don't think this scenario is even slightly possible. GS is from the 1st marriage; MS is from the 2nd, so they are considered "half" brother/sister.

defense101
07-28-2011, 05:38 PM
Hmmmmm ....... Is somebody already publicly setting up their defense?

Namely: Not guilty of murder due to temporary insanity as a result of RN having murdered the boy. I think what he meant is that without the one happening the other wouldn't have, so they are connected. IMO

gngr~snap
07-28-2011, 05:38 PM
How can you get mad about a child wetting a bed?
Someone has rage issues.
I can't see JS really worrying about it HE didn't change beds and do laundry.- I'm sure "the help" did it. (I'm assuming they were seperated at that time.)


[added my previous post for clarity here]
Just an educated hunch based on the appearance of the good Dr. (retired?, known as a hire-able consultant for trials) into this case, his having linked the two incidences, as well as the facts of the cases (as we know them to date) and the players (as much as we understand of them thus far).

I am now of the opinion that he does work with blinders on. Doesn't need all the lifestyle and personality. (I think he hears dead people!)


I interpreted Dr. Spitz's statement that the individual bodies and circumstances shouldn't be looked at individually, but collaboratively, since they occurred in the same area, under questionable circumstances, within a short period of time
Basically, no different than what a lot of posters on the thread have said.
It's not really "setting up a defense" - he was saying what they needed to look at.
He's not even seen the medical records, so he can only say how they would go about evaluating it. He has no more insight into this case than we do. Also, my perception of him from a telephone call is that he's not likely to go along with a theory of the case if he does not feel the science doesn't go along with it It's why the firm I work for didn't use him in the case we asked him to look over - his medical opinion wasn't good for our client. He's very stubborn and set in his opinions, once made.

I have learned as crazy as an old timer sounds... they have a lifetime behind them that I can't fathom. They may not be able to set the timer on the DVR- but they can peg people. (within reason) he's done a few autopsies in his life... obviously can't exlain why or how he came to his conclusions...



Verry interesting- but why would GS be the least bit inclined to do a dangerous favor for her father's second wife? But the proposal and pregnancy ideas...mmmm.

It was supposed to ba a "feigned injury"
Munchausen syndrome?
Maybe she just wanted to ruin the party/moment
for attention for her and her hurt child.
If she wanted to kill RN... she needed her alone.
How else could she get MS and JS out of the house?
I think GS was planning on leaving on Wed, after the party.
She was running out of time!
It was all about timing!
MS gets hurt from a "fall" like all rambunctious
6 year olds do.
I'm taking GS out of the equation.
There is no proof he even fell.(yet)
Maybe it wasn' trauma.
Maybe it was hypoxia. From respiratory distress.
All we have heard for sure is he was found
at the bottom of the stairs. No pulse or respirations.
DS could have given him something to make him
appear under the weather...like a little stronger than
benedryl....... and maybe dad gave him another medicine
for something else not knowing mom gave him something
earlier that evening?? He got a double dose/had an
interaction passed out at steps or fell down them?
come on... someone had to light the wick on
that stick of dynamite. DS didn't live there....
I can't make it work.but you are right. she would not involve GS
or anyone that could tell so it had to be her!
But how?
:dunno: well it's just words!
It had to be about that party!
or not...

CuriousAmazon
07-28-2011, 05:40 PM
RN, as lovely as she was, perhaps wasn't as loving or committed to JS' children. Some may have thought she was bordering on abusive to the youngest.
In every photo I've seen, which is basically only two or three, with both RZ and DS, they appeared to be comfortable. He looked happy when he was in her arms. I also have not heard anything about her even being abusive, actually quite the contrary.


JS staged the outing of RN to look like a sexual incident gone wrong based on RN's known kinky intimate tastes.

I understand people discussing the sexual incident gone wrong theory because of the Carradine story, but I don't believe this at all. Every indication was that she was raised religious and was a Christian. Not to say that doesn't happen behind closed doors, but usually people with kinky fantasies have a history there so someone an ex-wife/girlfriend or ex-husband/boyfriend, witness at a swinger party, teens/neighbors spying on RZ, etc would have made some sort of statement to that effect by now.

Just my two cents.

IzzyBlanche
07-28-2011, 05:43 PM
Some may have thought she was bordering on abusive to the youngest. Once MS was accidentally injured, JS blamed RN based on those intimations of abuse.

Who thought she was bordering on abusive?

[snipped]


RN's known kinky intimate tastes.

Known by who?

Please provide mainstream media sources for these allegations.

gngr~snap
07-28-2011, 05:57 PM
Very interesting, thank you.

I wish there was more in the article about the killer making a 911 call when the victim has been dead for a while - in other words, they just walk in and find them already dead.

Here is the full FBI article!
http://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm



Cindy Anthony's 911 call is in this one.:giggle:
http://behindthecrime.wordpress.com/about/911-homicide-calls-is-the-killing-calling/

This site is referenced in the site above. ^^^
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/575793/exploring_the_inner_workings_of_a_911.html?cat=8 (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/575793/exploring_the_inner_workings_of_a_911.html?cat=8)

Paladine
07-28-2011, 06:28 PM
http://www.10news.com/news/28689113/detail.html

Forensic Expert Discusses Coronado Death Investigation

--snipped----

The deaths that occurred at a Coronado mansion two weeks ago have not only grabbed the attention of San Diego but the attention of experts such as Dr. Werner Spitz.

RBBM

Spitz, who was in San Diego to testify in another case, spoke with 10News about Max Shacknai's fall down the grand staircase at his father's mansion and the mysterious death of his father's girlfriend, Rebecca Zahau, two days later.

"You have to consider them as one incident…not one body, one occurrence… and solve it together," said Spitz.

"Could it be that the head injury was not from a fall?" said Spitz. "Perhaps this is all an argument where the dead person cannot talk. But you know, the dead person can talk by telling the medical examiner what really happened."

Man, Spitz impresses me, at times...most times, actually...this time ESPECIALLY. Thanks for this...I've been out actually living up to some responsibilities, today...WAY behind.

branwynbreeze
07-28-2011, 06:33 PM
Here is the full FBI article!
http://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm



Cindy Anthony's 911 call is in this one.:giggle:
http://behindthecrime.wordpress.com/about/911-homicide-calls-is-the-killing-calling/

This site is referenced in the site above. ^^^
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/575793/exploring_the_inner_workings_of_a_911.html?cat=8 (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/575793/exploring_the_inner_workings_of_a_911.html?cat=8)

Great link. Thanks.

Paladine
07-28-2011, 06:35 PM
Who thought she was bordering on abusive?

[snipped]



Known by who?

Please provide mainstream media sources for these allegations.

I BELIEVE that statement by justice be served was prefaced by it being a theory or an opinion ETA: at end of post:
(Just my little opinion based on the blogs.) ...since they are a new poster, the wording throughout the post may have veered to what appeared to be posted as fact...I'm not sure it was intentional.

New posters need to remember if one cannot provide a link, it must clearly be stated as a theory...throughout the post...ALL imo, of course. It can be hard to learn...but it is learned...or peeps will ask for links. :)

scorekeeper
07-28-2011, 06:37 PM
We don't know the details and which one of them argued about what.
Usually people assume it's the father who was not happy, but we don't know that for that particular case, do we?

Well, we do have DS telling JS to not leave her......I don't have the direct quote but it seemed he had his mind made up....

time
07-28-2011, 06:42 PM
Here is the full FBI article!
http://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm



Cindy Anthony's 911 call is in this one.:giggle:
http://behindthecrime.wordpress.com/about/911-homicide-calls-is-the-killing-calling/

This site is referenced in the site above. ^^^
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/575793/exploring_the_inner_workings_of_a_911.html?cat=8 (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/575793/exploring_the_inner_workings_of_a_911.html?cat=8)

Thanks so much snappy! :)

justbetweenus
07-28-2011, 06:45 PM
I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this (hopefully this is okay with the Moderator)...but there's some confusion here to the relation: GS is not related to DS, so I don't think this scenario is even slightly possible. GS is from the 1st marriage; MS is from the 2nd, so they are considered "half" brother/sister.

I think she was aware of that as she mentions it further down in her post.

gngr~snap
07-28-2011, 06:46 PM
I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this (hopefully this is okay with the Moderator)...but there's some confusion here to the relation: GS is not related to DS, so I don't think this scenario is even slightly possible. GS is from the 1st marriage; MS is from the 2nd, so they are considered "half" brother/sister.
:waitasec: that is what I thought I just didn't call him "half"
but I changed my mind on that part.
maybe she was carrying him down the stairs.
If she was headed home anyway maybe they were carring luggage?
Tripped on a blanket?
without autopsy results who knows!

justbetweenus
07-28-2011, 06:53 PM
Here is the full FBI article!
http://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm



Cindy Anthony's 911 call is in this one.:giggle:
http://behindthecrime.wordpress.com/about/911-homicide-calls-is-the-killing-calling/

This site is referenced in the site above. ^^^
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/575793/exploring_the_inner_workings_of_a_911.html?cat=8 (http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/575793/exploring_the_inner_workings_of_a_911.html?cat=8)

Thank-you so much gngr. VERY interesting, I have to save this one.

Paladine
07-28-2011, 06:58 PM
Speculation....

I know we discussed this before, could it have been possible for Maxie to be a special needs child?

God bless him.......

Speculation, yes, scorekeeper, but that came from his Mother...it was in the accusations that flew back and forth...and special needs? Unless I've missed something, as far as I've seen, THAT'S more speculative than anything; I've seen no indication of that. I volunteer and donate to the Cancer Society...but I don't have cancer, and, no one in my family currently does (knock on wood, God willing, and all that).

No one should get ANGRY about a child wetting a bed...as if that helps anything, and if true...imo, he's a nut.

jstwondering
07-28-2011, 07:11 PM
How can you get mad about a child wetting a bed?
Someone has rage issues.

Especially, IIRC, this took place in 2008? so if MS was 6 in 2011, he was all of 3 then? How do you get mad at a 3 year old boy for wetting a bed? I think its pretty normal to have accidents when 3 years old.

i.b.nora
07-28-2011, 07:13 PM
Where is the original story about bedwetting, does anyone have a link?

justbetweenus
07-28-2011, 07:18 PM
Where is the original story about bedwetting, does anyone have a link?

Thank-you, I'm wondering too.

jstwondering
07-28-2011, 07:18 PM
Thanks for the kind words, jstwondering!

I completely agree with you on your paranoid statement [haha - that didn't come out right but you know what I mean].

And also, very nice addition of the phrase: "self-fulfilling prophecy"! If true, it does add an interesting and fateful dimension to this double tragedy.

BBM ha ha ha... :floorlaugh: Yes, I'm always getting into trouble with my "paranoid statements"!

scorekeeper
07-28-2011, 07:22 PM
gngr-snap,

Thanks so much for the FBI information on 911 call information. Very good read!!

score

re-posted:

http://www2.fbi.gov/publications/leb/2008/june2008/june2008leb.htm

scroll down for 911 overview.....

10-6Mom
07-28-2011, 07:27 PM
[QUOTE=gngr~snap;6962873]http://www.10news.com/news/28534601/detail.html

- Police officers responding to a report of a possible death
shortly before 7 a.m. Wednesday found a woman in "distress"
at the 27-room manor, according to the San Diego County Sheriff's Department...and called in paramedics to administer aid
The police were responding to a death! Why would they call in medics?
* I don't know sounds lke she may have had a pulse. Why would they have brought the cervical collar if she was dead? :banghead:

Remember her trainer said she was a fighter!

Just an FYI, it is standard for police and medics to both be dispatched in cases like this one. Generally speaking, if there was obvious signs of death (decomposition, rigor) then medics could be cancelled by LE prior to arrival. Police officers in California generally receive basic first aid and don't have the
authority or training to pronounce someone deceased, again unless it is real obvious. Even in cases, such as hangings, where it is somewhat obvious, medics have the equipment to determine that the individual is deceased. Given what LITTLE facts we have (GRRRR) CPD officers could have been covering their butts, by calling medics. But on the flip side why would they want more people in the crime scene than necessary??:banghead::banghead:

mentalsolstice
07-28-2011, 07:33 PM
:waitasec: that is what I thought I just didn't call him "half"
but I changed my mind on that part.
maybe she was carrying him down the stairs.
If she was headed home anyway maybe they were carring luggage?
Tripped on a blanket?
without autopsy results who knows!

I like the way you think for the most part, but I think implicating a minor, or a mom causing physical injury to her child to disrupt an engagement party is a little out there.

To think Mom would try to cause a minor bodily injury to her child would be a hard undertaking, especially if she wasn't present at the scene. If she wanted disrupt the engagement party, there are more controlled ways to do that where your child ends up living and healthy. She could have given him sour milk, rotten eggs, bad meat on Sunday thru early Tuesday, the day of the party, and guilted JS into cancelling the party because his son was in the ER. And she could've done those things, and claimed MS was in RN's custody when he ingested those things. Max would've been more likely to pull through food poisoning, allergens. etc., than he would have a TBI. I just don't see an educated mom plotting to throw her child down the stairs thinking he would suffer minor injuries...just to disrupt the ex's engagement party.

However, DS is still at the top of my POIs.

IzzyBlanche
07-28-2011, 07:39 PM
I BELIEVE that statement by justice be served was prefaced by it being a theory or an opinion ETA: at end of post: ...since they are a new poster, the wording throughout the post may have veered to what appeared to be posted as fact...I'm not sure it was intentional.

New posters need to remember if one cannot provide a link, it must clearly be stated as a theory...throughout the post...ALL imo, of course. It can be hard to learn...but it is learned...or peeps will ask for links. :)


Thank you. Yes, I know the OP stated it was his/her theory--but every theory must have some facts embedded in it, and the two statements that I bolded were presented as fact, it seemed to me.

Next thing you know those things will be repeated as fact and become fact in people's minds, just like the "fact" that the loud music was heard around 1:00 a.m.

I have asked on these threads, no one in particular, where the 1:00 a.m. time came from and no one seems to know, and I can't find a source, but it is now repeated as fact in everyone's speculations.

This kind of thing makes it so confusing to separate fact from rumor, especially in light of the dearth of official information.

I find it very frustrating.

:twocents:

Paladine
07-28-2011, 07:41 PM
Where is the original story about bedwetting, does anyone have a link?

I remember a link being posted...it wasn't me, though. It was in with the divorce allegations, I think? Anyone else recall? Maybe Time, do you recall?

(my daughter is pushing for the laptop...I'll look later, if ya'll haven't found it by then...)

Paladine
07-28-2011, 07:48 PM
Thank you. Yes, I know the OP stated it was his/her theory--but every theory must have some facts embedded in it, and the two statements that I bolded were presented as fact, it seemed to me.

Next thing you know those things will be repeated as fact and become fact in people's minds, just like the "fact" that the loud music was heard around 1:00 a.m.

I have asked on these threads, no one in particular, where the 1:00 a.m. time came from and no one seems to know, and I can't find a source, but it is now repeated as fact in everyone's speculations.

This kind of thing makes it so confusing to separate fact from rumor, especially in light of the dearth of official information.

I find it very frustrating.

:twocents:

It is frustrating...starting a case with 1 thread can cause much problems with accessing info...no links thread, no theory thread, no threads on individual players....etc.....and keeping it straight??

I have no idea when that music was playing, and I've seen no link SAYING its 1 am...gotta go through many videos, I think...older videos, before the PR team was hired, might give us more info. I share in your frustration...even worse, I gotta give up this laptop, now. :(

oceanblueeyes
07-28-2011, 07:49 PM
Speculation, yes, scorekeeper, but that came from his Mother...it was in the accusations that flew back and forth...and special needs? Unless I've missed something, as far as I've seen, THAT'S more speculative than anything; I've seen no indication of that. I volunteer and donate to the Cancer Society...but I don't have cancer, and, no one in my family currently does (knock on wood, God willing, and all that).

No one should get ANGRY about a child wetting a bed...as if that helps anything, and if true...imo, he's a nut.

From what I have read Jonah has been donating to these type of charities way before Maxie was even born.

I haven't seen anything that makes me believe Maxie was anything but a bright vibrant little boy.

IMO

pferrin
07-28-2011, 07:49 PM
[QUOTE=gngr~snap;6962873]http://www.10news.com/news/28534601/detail.html

- Police officers responding to a report of a possible death
shortly before 7 a.m. Wednesday found a woman in "distress"
at the 27-room manor, according to the San Diego County Sheriff's Department...and called in paramedics to administer aid
The police were responding to a death! Why would they call in medics?
* I don't know sounds lke she may have had a pulse. Why would they have brought the cervical collar if she was dead? :banghead:

Remember her trainer said she was a fighter!

Just an FYI, it is standard for police and medics to both be dispatched in cases like this one. Generally speaking, if there was obvious signs of death (decomposition, rigor) then medics could be cancelled by LE prior to arrival. Police officers in California generally receive basic first aid and don't have the
authority or training to pronounce someone deceased, again unless it is real obvious. Even in cases, such as hangings, where it is somewhat obvious, medics have the equipment to determine that the individual is deceased. Given what LITTLE facts we have (GRRRR) CPD officers could have been covering their butts, by calling medics. But on the flip side why would they want more people in the crime scene than necessary??:banghead::banghead:

I have been listening to radioreference archives for july 13..the call was dispatched by heartland fire (I guess this covers this area) and dispatch sent recue 36 and medic 36 to 1043 ocean.this was atapprox 6:45am. A 30 year old female hanging. that is all that was said. Am still listening ..police archives ..cant retreive. Radioreference is the best about working with police dept...wont impede an investigation. I am sure radioreference took these off line when police would not release 911 call.

Each county is different about who calls death. Police arrived at this scene first..then fire. Had rebecca still been warm she would have been transported.

gngr~snap
07-28-2011, 07:49 PM
I'm so sorry. I was just putting the facts that we know together. No intention to implicate anyone. Lord knows there is a lot more info to come at some point. Sleuthing only. I said (not word by word) a pretend injury....act, that backfired, no different than asking a teenager to take your young child to the park while you rest for 30 min and a car hitting them along the way. I didn't mean to imply there was any knowledge of anything sinister.- thinking motive means and opportunity.
I said it was a crazy theory... mods can remove it if unappropriate.:innocent:
I wasn't trying to be mean.

LaLaw2000
07-28-2011, 07:55 PM
I haven't seen that on here ... but many of us started to wonder if she was hanging by her neck. So, maybe she was not hanging by her neck, not a noose but she was hogtied as one of the mods first brought up. UGH

I am just catching up here.

BBM: She may have been hanging by her feet. There seems to be a very dark 'pooling' around her neck. Just JMO, though, but it was the first impression I had gotten and had also posted about maybe having been hogtied due to the bend in her legs. There could have been someone on the balcony controling how Rebecca fell.

I am leaning more toward DS and an attempt to frame JS. She seems to have the ability to feel rage toward Rebecca as much as jealousy, IMO.

MOO & all

We need news!

justbetweenus
07-28-2011, 07:56 PM
Thank you. Yes, I know the OP stated it was his/her theory--but every theory must have some facts embedded in it, and the two statements that I bolded were presented as fact, it seemed to me.

Next thing you know those things will be repeated as fact and become fact in people's minds, just like the "fact" that the loud music was heard around 1:00 a.m.

I have asked on these threads, no one in particular, where the 1:00 a.m. time came from and no one seems to know, and I can't find a source, but it is now repeated as fact in everyone's speculations.

This kind of thing makes it so confusing to separate fact from rumor, especially in light of the dearth of official information.

I find it very frustrating.

:twocents:

I understand your post 100%. As for the music, iirc, it was very early after Rebecca's death some media printed that a neighbour had heard loud music, but it has never been confirmed to be true, or that it came from this house. I remember during the press conf. a reporter asked about the rumour that their was a party, and the police said they have not heard from any credible witnesses, that there was a party at that house that night. IMO...I think at this time, it's all rumour. Sorry I don't have a link...lol.

10-6Mom
07-28-2011, 07:58 PM
[quote=10-6Mom;6963579]

I have been listening to radioreference archives for july 13..the call was dispatched by heartland fire (I guess this covers this area) and dispatch sent recue 36 and medic 36 to 1043 ocean.this was atapprox 6:45am. A 30 year old female hanging. that is all that was said. Am still listening ..police archives ..cant retreive. Radioreference is the best about working with police dept...wont impede an investigation. I am sure radioreference took these off line when police would not release 911 call.

Each county is different about who calls death. Police arrived at this scene first..then fire. Had rebecca still been warm she would have been transported.
:fence:

Absolutely!!

gngr~snap
07-28-2011, 08:01 PM
Where is the original story about bedwetting, does anyone have a link?


Thank-you, I'm wondering too.

Dina also submitted a two-page letter, describing Jonah as temperamental. She said the incident began over a disagreement with their child’s soiled bedding and that Jonah cursed at her in front of their child.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43817089/ns/local_news-san_diego_ca/t/details-shed-shacknais-second-divorce/

might not have been "bedwetting" per se soiled?... maybe he was sick?

pferrin
07-28-2011, 08:09 PM
:twocents:
Thank you. Yes, I know the OP stated it was his/her theory--but every theory must have some facts embedded in it, and the two statements that I bolded were presented as fact, it seemed to me.

Next thing you know those things will be repeated as fact and become fact in people's minds, just like the "fact" that the loud music was heard around 1:00 a.m.

I have asked on these threads, no one in particular, where the 1:00 a.m. time came from and no one seems to know, and I can't find a source, but it is now repeated as fact in everyone's speculations.

This kind of thing makes it so confusing to separate fact from rumor, especially in light of the dearth of official information.

I find it very frustrating.

:twocents:

Izzy..I completely agree. I love websleuths because we keep it closer to the truth while still speculating..we sleuth. And I agree it can get to me too. So we dont know if the OP has personal experience with this family or just has gathered really bad data. When someone posts something on another website..or if they comment to a story. ..I do not take them as factual and I do get offended if they repeat the carp here.

Just the facts Watson..ok and a LITTLE speculation. To say that RN was known for being this or that is attacking the victim..and for me a NO NO.

Lets keep Websleuth the beautiful place that the mods and fearless leaders with RayGuns have created here. I personally love it. And I agree with Ya IZZY. :twocents::twocents:

mentalsolstice
07-28-2011, 08:11 PM
Speculation, yes, scorekeeper, but that came from his Mother...it was in the accusations that flew back and forth...and special needs? Unless I've missed something, as far as I've seen, THAT'S more speculative than anything; I've seen no indication of that. I volunteer and donate to the Cancer Society...but I don't have cancer, and, no one in my family currently does (knock on wood, God willing, and all that).

No one should get ANGRY about a child wetting a bed...as if that helps anything, and if true...imo, he's a nut.

Unfortunately my mom got very angry about bed wetting. My mom's sister was single, we're talking 1963ish, my parents would take care of my cousin in the summer, and she was a bed-wetter, she was six, I was 3. My mom was angry about getting my cousin up in the night, I remember being woken up. During the day, my mom would reward me with M&Ms (I was never a bed wetter, I guess I went through potty training well), but if my C wet the bed, no m&Ms for her. My mom would pit me against my cousin...a 3 y.o. was to pick out so many M&Ms to a 6 y.o., and yes I picked out the ugly brown M&Ms, being a 3 y.o. and liking bright colors. My mom, my aunt, and my cousin are still holding it over my head, 45+ years later, (my cousin has been dx'd paranoid/schizophrenic).

So, in my case, I have no patience with arguments over bed wetting. NONE!

oceanblueeyes
07-28-2011, 08:15 PM
Dina also submitted a two-page letter, describing Jonah as temperamental. She said the incident began over a disagreement with their child’s soiled bedding and that Jonah cursed at her in front of their child.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43817089/ns/local_news-san_diego_ca/t/details-shed-shacknais-second-divorce/

might not have been "bedwetting" per se soiled?... maybe he was sick?

It sure seemed to be tit for tat with these two.

I think they both tried to cover their butts when they got into it ......always blaming the other one and proclaiming they were the victim.

He “physically intimidated” her, she wrote, by “coming very close to (her), ‘nose to nose,’” and continuing to insult and threaten" her with name-calling in a “menacing tone.” She added that her attempts to keep an arm’s distance from Jonah during the incident resulted in her hand moving from his chest to his throat.

BBM
I don't believe the bolded part. I think in anger she grabbed him by the throat and neither one was really fearful of the other one.

IMO

scorekeeper
07-28-2011, 08:28 PM
That same night, a neighbor reportedly heard loud music coming from the mansion. Sergeant Frank wouldn’t comment on the report, adding only that “sometimes it comes down to perception.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/19/jonah-shacknai-mansion-deaths-girlfriend-rebecca-nalepa-son-max-die-within-days.html

But today a source close to Mr Shacknai told Radar: 'There was absolutely no party whatsoever, period.
'A neighbour might have heard loud music, but that was the extent of it. No party.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017235/Jonah-Shacknais-lover-Rebecca-Nalepa-Zahau-distraught-day-died.html#ixzz1TRveilOn

Not sure where the time (1 am) came from but do remember discussing it.

pferrin
07-28-2011, 08:35 PM
I have listened to all police archived dispatch tapes for the evening of july 12 and early morning of july 13. There are no dispatch police calls about loud music or a party in the 1000 block of Ocean. So it is just a rumor..that either a neighbor stated or someone decided to makeup in the media.

I am not saying there was not loud music..but none was reported to the police and dispatched.

sargenet
07-28-2011, 08:41 PM
The more I read the more I am actually thinking she wasn't "hanging" by her neck. I think that was the assumption because they wouldn't say "suicide or murder"...so the assumption was she was hanging by her neck...

I went back to a lot of the old links on these pages, and saw some raw footage from the interview with Tim Curran that I found on Youtube...plus a few other TV news shows... nobody said she was found "hanging by her neck"... just "hanging"...

No doubt there was rope tied to her feet...they said they were "bound" but I believe they were clear that they were not tied together.... and her hands were tied behind her back....

I think the 911 tape might state she was hanging by her feet... and I bet we find out that AS pulled the table over to cut her down....because someone hung her feet first from the balcony..naked...with her hands bound behind her....

Someone was trying to make a point here....an angry point. To kill her and then display her naked body. Sounds personal to me.......

Linda7NJ
07-28-2011, 08:51 PM
I can see having a fight starting with the bed wetting. When my kids went through that stage, it could get pretty tiring to have a kid wake in the middle of the night and need sheets changed. Maybe DS said something like "why don't you take a turn doing this? Why do I always have to do it?" and JS reacted angrily. Granted fighting and swearing at each other in front of the kid, who then might feel like it was his fault, is completely inappropriate.


More children are abused and some even murdered over bed wetting than any other reason. It's a very sad fact.

jjenny
07-28-2011, 08:59 PM
She was hanging by her neck.
"Jonah Shacknai's brother, Adam, told investigators he found Nalepa hanging from her neck from a balcony, her arms and feet tied. He then cut her down in hopes she was still alive."
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/07/team-of-15-detectives-probing-womans-death-at-coronado-mansion.html

sargenet
07-28-2011, 09:27 PM
She was hanging by her neck.
"Jonah Shacknai's brother, Adam, told investigators he found Nalepa hanging from her neck from a balcony, her arms and feet tied. He then cut her down in hopes she was still alive."
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/07/team-of-15-detectives-probing-womans-death-at-coronado-mansion.html

I read that in a number of articles...but I was was wondering if anyone has a link to the whole news conference that Tim Curran made to the press. All I can find is bits and pieces...

I have found some news reports that say "hanging" and then some say the brother said she was hanging by the neck....

Also some reports say feet were bound together...some say they were bound but not together....

astrodreamer
07-28-2011, 09:29 PM
Anyone notice this odd coincidence?

http://poway.patch.com/articles/memorial-held-for-sdpd-detectives-daughter-and-new-spreckles-drama

The longtime SDPD chief of child abuse cases and her own daughter were found murdered a few days ago -- in circumstances eerily similar to the Shacknai case. She might have been involved in the determination of Max's cause of death, depending on when the Coronado police turned the case over to the San Diego PD.

scorekeeper
07-28-2011, 09:43 PM
Anyone notice this odd coincidence?
http://poway.patch.com/articles/memorial-held-for-sdpd-detectives-daughter-and-new-spreckles-drama

The longtime SDPD chief of child abuse cases and her own daughter were found murdered a few days ago -- in circumstances eerily similar to the Shacknai case. She might have been involved in the determination of Max's cause of death, depending on when the Coronado police turned the case over to the San Diego PD.

BBM - Please explain "odd coincidence"?

TIA

justbetweenus
07-28-2011, 09:44 PM
I read that in a number of articles...but I was was wondering if anyone has a link to the whole news conference that Tim Curran made to the press. All I can find is bits and pieces...

I have found some news reports that say "hanging" and then some say the brother said she was hanging by the neck....

Also some reports say feet were bound together...some say they were bound but not together....

Is this the news conference you're thinking about sargenet?


http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=6051226&redirected=true

pferrin
07-28-2011, 10:17 PM
Anyone notice this odd coincidence?

http://poway.patch.com/articles/memorial-held-for-sdpd-detectives-daughter-and-new-spreckles-drama

The longtime SDPD chief of child abuse cases and her own daughter were found murdered a few days ago -- in circumstances eerily similar to the Shacknai case. She might have been involved in the determination of Max's cause of death, depending on when the Coronado police turned the case over to the San Diego PD.

May Donna Williams and her daughter Brianna rest in peace. Too sad

sargenet
07-28-2011, 10:18 PM
Is this the news conference you're thinking about sargenet?


http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=6051226&redirected=true

Thank you... I couldn't get it to play till I downloaded an updated flash...

Tim Curran did say that Adam reported he found her hanging from the balcony "with a rope around her neck".... I listened to it a few times and it makes me wonder if the rope was tied to any other part of her in addition to her neck.

He also said "we aren't going to comment on what she was anchored to inside"...or at least I thought he said "inside"..

He also said it was a rope...but isn't that orange electric cord in the photos? (or did I just read that)..

i.b.nora
07-28-2011, 10:28 PM
The deaths of Donna Williams and her daughter Briana at the hands of the son and brother is just tragic beyond all reason. However, I see nothing at all similar to or coincidental with the deaths of Max and Rebecca.

CuriousAmazon
07-28-2011, 10:42 PM
Another interesting article from earlier on...

Spreckels mansion owner described as go-getter
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/16/spreckels-mansion-owner-described-go-getter/

justbetweenus
07-28-2011, 10:42 PM
Thank you... I couldn't get it to play till I downloaded an updated flash...

Tim Curran did say that Adam reported he found her hanging from the balcony "with a rope around her neck".... I listened to it a few times and it makes me wonder if the rope was tied to any other part of her in addition to her neck.

He also said "we aren't going to comment on what she was anchored to inside"...or at least I thought he said "inside"..

OMGSH..you are so right!! The first 100 times I listened to this I thought he was talking about how the balcony was attached to the house. BUT yes he is talking about what the rope was ancored to inside of the house. Reason why we never seen a rope hanging off the balcony.

He also said it was a rope...but isn't that orange electric cord in the photos? (or did I just read that)..

IIRC, he mentions that she was suspended by a rope, but would not comment on what type of material her feet and arms were tied with.

ETA> sorry I don't know what I did wrong here with the way response came out. Hope It's understandable.

gngr~snap
07-28-2011, 10:43 PM
Thank you... I couldn't get it to play till I downloaded an updated flash...

Tim Curran did say that Adam reported he found her hanging from the balcony "with a rope around her neck".... I listened to it a few times and it makes me wonder if the rope was tied to any other part of her in addition to her neck.

He also said "we aren't going to comment on what she was anchored to inside"...or at least I thought he said "inside"..

He also said it was a rope...
but isn't that orange electric cord in the photos? (or did I just read that)..
looks like it 100% to me.

MizStery
07-28-2011, 10:49 PM
Anyone notice this odd coincidence?

http://poway.patch.com/articles/memorial-held-for-sdpd-detectives-daughter-and-new-spreckles-drama

The longtime SDPD chief of child abuse cases and her own daughter were found murdered a few days ago -- in circumstances eerily similar to the Shacknai case. She might have been involved in the determination of Max's cause of death, depending on when the Coronado police turned the case over to the San Diego PD.


There are similarities. Tragic.Senseless.
Warning:The text is graphic and disturbing.

Link

http://poway.patch.com/articles/double-homicide-claims-mother-daughter-in-rancho-peasquitos
-snip-
The teen's 24-year-old brother, Brian, was sitting next to her body in front of the home and was taken into custody, Collins said,*adding that police do not believe there are any other suspects. It appears the 18-year-old fell or was pushed from an upstairs balcony, and she also had knife wounds, Collins said. She was alive when paramedics arrived, but they were unable to save her, Collins said.


Neighbor Max Keomanivong, 22, said he heard screams from his home up the street and came outside to see the brother carrying the teen out of an upstairs window at the home and dangling her over the balcony. The brother then pushed the woman over the balcony, he said. The teen was naked, alive and covered in blood when he ran over to see if she was OK, Keomanivong said.

"It was gruesome ... not a pretty sight," Keomanivong said. Collins also confirmed that the teen's body was unclothed, and said it appears that was how she normally slept.*

gngr~snap
07-28-2011, 11:01 PM
She was hanging by her neck.
"Jonah Shacknai's brother, Adam, told investigators he found Nalepa hanging from her neck from a balcony, her arms and feet tied. He then cut her down in hopes she was still alive."
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/07/team-of-15-detectives-probing-womans-death-at-coronado-mansion.html

photoshop
Courtesy Bone Pile thread #3 pg 29?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also interesting: Did anyone know she could not swim?
Zahau-Loehner said Rebecca had a unique style, always coordinating her makeup to match her outfits. She said the family knew her as Becky and that she was a fitness fanatic, who always embraced new challenges, like the triathlon she was training for.

"I said, ‘How do you possibly plan to do the triathlon when you don't know how to swim?'" Zahau-Loehner recalled. "That's when she told me she signed up for swim lessons."
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15145788/siste

Paladine
07-28-2011, 11:02 PM
Haven't read through and caught up, yet...but as promised, the bedwetting link, for good measure. If it's a repeat, forgive me...please. ;)


Dina also submitted a two-page letter, describing Jonah as temperamental. She said the incident began over a disagreement with their child’s soiled bedding and that Jonah cursed at her in front of their child.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/125848813.html
Source: Details Shed on Shacknai's Second Divorce | NBC San Diego

justbetweenus
07-28-2011, 11:08 PM
photoshop
Courtesy Bone Pile thread #3 pg 29?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also interesting: Did anyone know she could not swim?
Zahau-Loehner said Rebecca had a unique style, always coordinating her makeup to match her outfits. She said the family knew her as Becky and that she was a fitness fanatic, who always embraced new challenges, like the triathlon she was training for.

"I said, ‘How do you possibly plan to do the triathlon when you don't know how to swim?'" Zahau-Loehner recalled. "That's when she told me she signed up for swim lessons."
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15145788/siste

Thank-you. My eyes aren't the best, but that almost looks like it's hanging from a hook like a plant would?

gngr~snap
07-28-2011, 11:17 PM
Thank-you. My eyes aren't the best, but that almost looks like it's hanging from a hook like a plant would?
I could be way off but my bet is that it was tied to the bed in that room and fed out just under the railing in order to support her body weight..
NOT that she is large but if the railing falls off/knot fails she might live..
(kinda "anti"suicidal) or if the knot didn't support her she could live and turn her killer in.
I think this person knew knots FWIW.

defense101
07-28-2011, 11:20 PM
The more I read the more I am actually thinking she wasn't "hanging" by her neck. I think that was the assumption because they wouldn't say "suicide or murder"...so the assumption was she was hanging by her neck...

I went back to a lot of the old links on these pages, and saw some raw footage from the interview with Tim Curran that I found on Youtube...plus a few other TV news shows... nobody said she was found "hanging by her neck"... just "hanging"...

No doubt there was rope tied to her feet...they said they were "bound" but I believe they were clear that they were not tied together.... and her hands were tied behind her back....

I think the 911 tape might state she was hanging by her feet... and I bet we find out that AS pulled the table over to cut her down....because someone hung her feet first from the balcony..naked...with her hands bound behind her....

Someone was trying to make a point here....an angry point. To kill her and then display her naked body. Sounds personal to me....... I think what he said was that the hands were tied behind her back, that her feet were bound but they weren't tied together. Meaning the hands and feet weren't tied together as in hogtied but the feet were bound. IMO

CuriousAmazon
07-28-2011, 11:25 PM
Found this interesting tidbit posted on a separate forum. I researched the guy and he sounds legit. He also happens to be Michael Jackson's dermatologist as well and a friend to the stars (Liz Taylor, etc.)

A post in the Wall Street Journal:
For many years I was the main consultant to Medicis Pharmaceutical
Corporation run by Jonah Shacknai. I popularized their injectable filler
Restylane for wrinkle and lip augmentation by giving courses throughout
the US, Canada and Europe. Simultaneously Jonah used unlicensed foreign
doctors and sponsored courses and their educational seminars. At many
of the courses these individuals would treat patients. The main example
of this was Drs. Jean and Alastair Carruthers of Vancouver who created
and distributed a CD of my work and injection techniques through Johns
Hopkins! Furthermore, Jean published a paper describing my technique in
which she positioned herself as the senior author. in whichdecided she
would be the senior author on a lip injection paper. Subsequently,I did a
lip study for Medicis and then spent over 40 hours writing this pivitol
paper on lip enhancement with Restylane. The paper had to be accurate
and not like the ghastly ghost written “data” that floods the medical
literature. I also warned Medicis not to present this data to the FDA in
that it contained my personal injection techniques. I would expect that
it is very unusual for someone else to present the data. Contrary to my
agreement with Medicis they never published the paper I wrote on lip
augmentation and they presented my data to the FDA to expand the lip
study to multiple sites. With this expanded lip data Medicis gained FDA
approval for lip augmentation. As the money kept rolling in Jonah’s
houses kept getting larger and larger with Jonah himself developing
extreme arrogance totally losing contact with reality and developed a
tremendous overestimation of his capabilities, especially in regard to
his power. Needless to say though I had a signed agreement with Medicis
for my initial study on lips and the paper for $280,000 this did not
include the expanded studies and the work that would lead to FDA
approval in which they promised participation. But Jonah never paid me
and ceased to talk to me but as his wealth increased so did his
satyriasis --- his excessive, often uncontrollable sexual desire. Maybe
this was his desire to remain forever young. But this illness may very
well account for what happened at the Spreckles mansion as it did for
the action at Dupont Estate in Deleware.

Arnold W. Klein, MD
Professor of Medicine and Dermatology
UCLA
Klein Chair in Dermatology UCLA

Paladine
07-28-2011, 11:26 PM
I am just catching up here.

BBM: She may have been hanging by her feet. There seems to be a very dark 'pooling' around her neck. Just JMO, though, but it was the first impression I had gotten and had also posted about maybe having been hogtied due to the bend in her legs. There could have been someone on the balcony controling how Rebecca fell.
I am leaning more toward DS and an attempt to frame JS. She seems to have the ability to feel rage toward Rebecca as much as jealousy, IMO.

MOO & all

We need news!

Additonally Bolded By Me

Chilling. Sadly...I can see that scenario.

celticthyme
07-28-2011, 11:29 PM
Does anyone think JS might have hired his brother to come in and do the deed? Thought just occurred to me. Trying to figure out what he was doing there . . .

My $$ is still on the Ex. FWIW

Paladine
07-28-2011, 11:35 PM
Does anyone think JS might have hired his brother to come in and do the deed? Thought just occurred to me. Trying to figure out what he was doing there . . .

My $$ is still on the Ex. FWIW

At this point, although I have my personal fave theories of posters and of my own, I do feel nothing can be ruled out...except suicide, IMO.

CuriousAmazon
07-28-2011, 11:37 PM
Arnold W. Klein, MD
Professor of Medicine and Dermatology
UCLA
Klein Chair in Dermatology UCLA

On Medicis
http://www.quora.com/Arnold-W-Klein/answers

Paladine
07-28-2011, 11:43 PM
Yes, we have some info on Klein posted in another thread, maybe #3. I found it very interesting. Good to have it posted here, too...keeps those new to the case informed, imo...

Paladine
07-28-2011, 11:48 PM
The more I read the more I am actually thinking she wasn't "hanging" by her neck. I think that was the assumption because they wouldn't say "suicide or murder"...so the assumption was she was hanging by her neck...

I went back to a lot of the old links on these pages, and saw some raw footage from the interview with Tim Curran that I found on Youtube...plus a few other TV news shows... nobody said she was found "hanging by her neck"... just "hanging"...
No doubt there was rope tied to her feet...they said they were "bound" but I believe they were clear that they were not tied together.... and her hands were tied behind her back....

I think the 911 tape might state she was hanging by her feet... and I bet we find out that AS pulled the table over to cut her down....because someone hung her feet first from the balcony..naked...with her hands bound behind her....

Someone was trying to make a point here....an angry point. To kill her and then display her naked body. Sounds personal to me.......

RBBM

Yes. I posted a similar opinion previously. Just cause she was 'hanging'...it doesn't mean by the neck. I, too, did some early reading and found "hanging"...not by WHAT, though...hanging, head down...? hands and feet tied? Seems plausible, to me...I THINK some assumed by the neck cause thats what people think of when they hear 'hanging', imo.

And I SO hear you on that last point...

jstwondering
07-28-2011, 11:48 PM
Another interesting article from earlier on...

Spreckels mansion owner described as go-getter
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/16/spreckels-mansion-owner-described-go-getter/

Wow, I wish I knew how to put the photo in the article you posted next to a current photo. Shallow and has NOTHING to do with the case, but sure shows that less is more when injecting stuff into your face. IMO

CuriousAmazon
07-28-2011, 11:57 PM
Looking at their court case, it looks like in August 2010 RZ's husband NN petitioned for divorce. Also interestingly enough, the court received an address update for RZ on June 30, 2011.

Not sure if any of this provides any new clues. I do find it interesting that RZ didn't petition for divorce and the husband took this long to do it. Then four months later she quits her job to take care of a new family.

CuriousAmazon
07-28-2011, 11:59 PM
Yes, we have some info on Klein posted in another thread, maybe #3. I found it very interesting. Good to have it posted here, too...keeps those new to the case informed, imo...

Sorry for the repeat; I actually did read those.

Paladine
07-29-2011, 12:02 AM
Wow, I wish I knew how to put the photo in the article you posted next to a current photo. Shallow and has NOTHING to do with the case, but sure shows that less is more when injecting stuff into your face. IMO

The pic from the article is pic 1, I picked up 2 others from google images...not dated, though but he looks older but 'done', to me...

Paladine
07-29-2011, 12:05 AM
Sorry for the repeat; I actually did read those.

no need to apologize to me, I'm no 'post-nazi'...;) I think it's cool you brought it forward, it gives one industry persons insight to the company...I found it interesting.

MizStery
07-29-2011, 12:08 AM
Wow, I wish I knew how to put the photo in the article you posted next to a current photo. Shallow and has NOTHING to do with the case, but sure shows that less is more when injecting stuff into your face. IMO

Thanks,you made me curious. I had not seen earlier pictures of him.So I went to the link and did not recognize that was a photo of JS. He now a alien vapid expression. Wow,I can appreciate exactly what you mean.MOO

jstwondering
07-29-2011, 12:10 AM
Yes, we have some info on Klein posted in another thread, maybe #3. I found it very interesting. Good to have it posted here, too...keeps those new to the case informed, imo...

Well sleuthing this guy (which I assume is ok, since he inserted himself into the story by writing to The Wall Street Journal I found this bizarro website. Is this guy Michael Jackson's dermatologist? IMO, He sure is vocal about accusing almost everyone of something nefarious, including Michael Jackson, Harvey Levin of TMJ, Harvard Medical school, etc. Check out this website:
http://www.maximum-jackson.com/discussion/showthread.php?24703-Michael-Jackson-Was-Not-Gay-Arnold-Klein-Admits-He-Lied

justbetweenus
07-29-2011, 12:11 AM
Well sleuthing this guy (which I assume is ok, since he inserted himself into the story by writing to The Wall Street Journal I found this bizarro website. Is this guy Michael Jackson's dermatologist? IMO, He sure is vocal about accusing almost everyone of something nefarious, including Michael Jackson, Harvey Levin of TMJ, Harvard Medical school, etc. Check out this website:
http://www.maximum-jackson.com/discussion/showthread.php?24703-Michael-Jackson-Was-Not-Gay-Arnold-Klein-Admits-He-Lied

Yes, he is the same Arnie Klein.

jstwondering
07-29-2011, 12:15 AM
The pic from the article is pic 1, I picked up 2 others from google images...not dated, though but he looks older but 'done', to me...

THANK YOU SO MUCH, Paladine!:gthanks: This is exactly what I wanted to do if I could have figured it out.

sdcali
07-29-2011, 12:17 AM
The pic from the article is pic 1, I picked up 2 others from google images...not dated, though but he looks older but 'done', to me...

IMO, he is much better looking in pic 1. NOT in the other 2. Definitely had some injectables in his face. He almost does not look like the same person. Note to self: stay away from that stuff. :)

Wendy101
07-29-2011, 12:23 AM
More children are abused and some even murdered over bed wetting than any other reason. It's a very sad fact.

:banghead: Sick.. Pull-ups or Goodnights come in a package of what? 26?? they are what? $15.00 .. New advertisement should be.. Don't abuse your child, save your childs life for less than $1.00 a day!! Don't get yourself stressed out because your bedwetter had another ACCIDENT.... Buy your child his or her very own pull-ups/goodnights today!

IzzyBlanche
07-29-2011, 12:38 AM
:twocents:

Just the facts Watson..ok and a LITTLE speculation. To say that RN was known for being this or that is attacking the victim..and for me a NO NO.



I thanked you for this post already but upon pondering it further, just wanted to say THANK YOU in capital letters for articulating what bothered me so much about that post.

Which is:

Posting a theory that includes negative assumptions about the victim, which haven't even remotely been hinted at in any MSM news reports (as far as I am aware), is an attack on the victim.

Paladine
07-29-2011, 12:43 AM
I was searching for 'stepmother', 'shacknai', etc and came across this...now, its a relay for life team, (my daughter does this too), one of the children was on this spring. To the far right of the screen you;ll see the prizecontributors/sponsors?...KJ is included as a sponsor, along with 'someone' titled "wicked stepmonster of GS" WHO is that and what is that about? Rebecca?? Dina??

http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR/RelayForLife/RFLFY11GW?team_id=823721&pg=team&fr_id=34078

IzzyBlanche
07-29-2011, 12:46 AM
looks like it 100% to me.

What is the picture on the left of? I am not sure.

Thanks.

Wendy101
07-29-2011, 12:47 AM
Wow, I wish I knew how to put the photo in the article you posted next to a current photo. Shallow and has NOTHING to do with the case, but sure shows that less is more when injecting stuff into your face. IMO

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1178&pictureid=12705http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1178&pictureid=12707http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1178&pictureid=12706

Paladine
07-29-2011, 12:50 AM
Anyone notice this odd coincidence?

http://poway.patch.com/articles/memorial-held-for-sdpd-detectives-daughter-and-new-spreckles-drama

The longtime SDPD chief of child abuse cases and her own daughter were found murdered a few days ago -- in circumstances eerily similar to the Shacknai case. She might have been involved in the determination of Max's cause of death, depending on when the Coronado police turned the case over to the San Diego PD.

Very interestring..I'll be watching to see whatr happens here...

indicajane
07-29-2011, 12:50 AM
More children are abused and some even murdered over bed wetting than any other reason. It's a very sad fact.

I have never, ever heard this fact before, in all my studies. Could you please provide a link? I have actually been taught that stress, poverty and the abusers history of abuse are the greatest reasons for child abuse. I'd be interested if there is some stats in regards to your statement.

gngr~snap
07-29-2011, 01:07 AM
I think what he said was that the hands were tied behind her back, that her feet were bound but they weren't tied together. Meaning the hands and feet weren't tied together as in hogtied but the feet were bound. IMO
like this maybe?<see image> CAN'T HAVE 2 HEAD INJURIES IN A WEEK!
they had to get it right.- maybe hanging didn't kill her. she was just displayed?

& NO I don't know what this card means! I got it for the picture!! FWIW
y'all don't yell at me please.

LaLaw2000
07-29-2011, 01:17 AM
The more I read the more I am actually thinking she wasn't "hanging" by her neck. I think that was the assumption because they wouldn't say "suicide or murder"...so the assumption was she was hanging by her neck...

I went back to a lot of the old links on these pages, and saw some raw footage from the interview with Tim Curran that I found on Youtube...plus a few other TV news shows... nobody said she was found "hanging by her neck"... just "hanging"...

No doubt there was rope tied to her feet...they said they were "bound" but I believe they were clear that they were not tied together.... and her hands were tied behind her back....

I think the 911 tape might state she was hanging by her feet... and I bet we find out that AS pulled the table over to cut her down....because someone hung her feet first from the balcony..naked...with her hands bound behind her....

Someone was trying to make a point here....an angry point. To kill her and then display her naked body. Sounds personal to me.......

I agree with you on this, sargenet, and had stated upthread that I think Rebecca may have been found hanging by her feet. Hanging her unclothed was to humiliate her even in death, IMO.

This death was both vicious and very personal. Even if it is classified as a suicide, I just will not believe it.

MOO

Charlie09
07-29-2011, 01:19 AM
[QUOTE=peace9274;6961490]Very nice tribute of RN with lots of photos of her with friends & family.
Interesting, though, that there are no photos of her with JS or his children.....
unless I missed them.[/QUOT

Wonderful tribute to Rebecca. In these photos, I saw a woman who was very loving, loved children, family and friends, was physically fit above the average person, she looked very strong even if she was a small frame - she even had vascularity and muscle definition in her arms which is not common unless you are devoted to fitness -- she was a people person -- she loved animls -- she loved all things beautiful.

I found the video sad, and her alone the majority of the photos....

defense101
07-29-2011, 01:22 AM
I agree with you on this, sargenet, and had stated upthread that I think Rebecca may have been found hanging by her feet. Hanging her unclothed was to humiliate her even in death, IMO.

This death was both vicious and very personal. Even if it is classified as a suicide, I just will not believe it.

MOO I believe they said that she was hung with a makeshift noose, I'm thinking that means she was hung by her neck imo

jjenny
07-29-2011, 01:23 AM
I agree with you on this, sargenet, and had stated upthread that I think Rebecca may have been found hanging by her feet. Hanging her unclothed was to humiliate her even in death, IMO.

This death was both vicious and very personal. Even if it is classified as a suicide, I just will not believe it.

MOO

Well she was not hanging by feet. She was hanging by her neck.
I don't see why anyone would think of suicide if she was hanging by her feet (which she was not).

LaLaw2000
07-29-2011, 01:35 AM
Wow, I wish I knew how to put the photo in the article you posted next to a current photo. Shallow and has NOTHING to do with the case, but sure shows that less is more when injecting stuff into your face. IMO

The pic you are referring to, jstwondering, does not even look like the same man to me even though I know it is JS. He really has riuned his looks with his own products, IMO.

LaLaw2000
07-29-2011, 01:57 AM
[quote=Lawgirl;6961527]

I found the video sad, and her alone the majority of the photos....

I waited and waited and could not get the video to load for some reason. I really wanted to see it.

LaLaw2000
07-29-2011, 02:00 AM
Well she was not hanging by feet. She was hanging by her neck.
I don't see why anyone would think of suicide if she was hanging by her feet (which she was not).

jjenny, it was an opinion only.

Good night all!

justbetweenus
07-29-2011, 02:06 AM
I agree with you on this, sargenet, and had stated upthread that I think Rebecca may have been found hanging by her feet. Hanging her unclothed was to humiliate her even in death, IMO.

This death was both vicious and very personal. Even if it is classified as a suicide, I just will not believe it.

MOO

You two are not alone with that thought. It has crossed my mind too.

Charlie09
07-29-2011, 02:23 AM
The more I read the more I am actually thinking she wasn't "hanging" by her neck. I think that was the assumption because they wouldn't say "suicide or murder"...so the assumption was she was hanging by her neck...

I went back to a lot of the old links on these pages, and saw some raw footage from the interview with Tim Curran that I found on Youtube...plus a few other TV news shows... nobody said she was found "hanging by her neck"... just "hanging"...

No doubt there was rope tied to her feet...they said they were "bound" but I believe they were clear that they were not tied together.... and her hands were tied behind her back....

I think the 911 tape might state she was hanging by her feet... and I bet we find out that AS pulled the table over to cut her down....because someone hung her feet first from the balcony..naked...with her hands bound behind her....

Someone was trying to make a point here....an angry point. To kill her and then display her naked body. Sounds personal to me.......

early on, I could have sworn I saw "make shift noose" no link, no proof, just almost sure I saw that. Is a noose ever used in relation to anything but around the neck? (serious, not sarcastic question)

SunnieRN
07-29-2011, 02:24 AM
The pic from the article is pic 1, I picked up 2 others from google images...not dated, though but he looks older but 'done', to me...

You know, looking at before and after pictures, it almost looks like he had a face lift. A major face lift, as Restolyne is temporary and this looks way permanent. If not, maybe a face lift that was enhanced by his products. Restolyne wouldn't change facial structure and his looks different to me. )Sorry if I mis spelled the product name, as I have no idea how it is spelled.)

SunnieRN
07-29-2011, 02:27 AM
early on, I could have sworn I saw "make shift noose" no link, no proof, just almost sure I saw that. Is a noose ever used in relation to anything but around the neck? (serious, not sarcastic question)

I have read several times that she was 'found hanging, with a rope around her neck'. Not that she was found hanging 'by' a rope around her neck. Vague difference, that may or may not be important.

MizStery
07-29-2011, 02:35 AM
You know, looking at before and after pictures, it almost looks like he had a face lift. A major face lift, as Restolyne is temporary and this looks way permanent. If not, maybe a face lift that was enhanced by his products. Restolyne wouldn't change facial structure and his looks different to me. )Sorry if I mis spelledW the product name, as I have no idea how it is spelled.)

By jove I think you figured it out. Same thing .....I hardly recognize Bruce Jenner,Burt Reynolds or Kenny Rogers after their face lift's.

gngr~snap
07-29-2011, 02:40 AM
Does anyone think JS might have hired his brother to come in and do the deed? Thought just occurred to me. Trying to figure out what he was doing there . . .

My $$ is still on the Ex. FWIW
I don't know now this could be payback!




Found this interesting tidbit posted on a separate forum. I researched the guy and he sounds legit. He also happens to be Michael Jackson's dermatologist as well and a friend to the stars (Liz Taylor, etc.)
<snip>
as his wealth increased so did his satyriasis:shocked2: --- his excessive, often uncontrollable sexual desire. Maybe this was his desire to remain forever young. But this illness may very well account for what happened at the Spreckles mansion.


:puke:I was gonna post the definition but...:shutup:

Arnold W. Klein, MD
Professor of Medicine and Dermatology
UCLA
Klein Chair in Dermatology UCLA




Wow, I wish I knew how to put the photo in the article you posted next to a current photo. Shallow and has NOTHING to do with the case, but sure shows that less is more when injecting stuff into your face. IMO


pic #3 is bad!




http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1178&pictureid=12705

Very Nice...





http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1178&pictureid=12707


Anabolic Steroids? IMO




http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1178&pictureid=12706
No clue!
To have an MD post THAt about you? He may have just gone after the wrong woman!- I'd really hate to think RN died due to his
Malignant self ♥/Narcissism
or Maxie, wow!

(can't get my "quotes" to work SORRY!)

Charlie09
07-29-2011, 02:45 AM
[quote=Charlie09;6964566]

I waited and waited and could not get the video to load for some reason. I really wanted to see it.

try a different browser? I can't usually get youtube to play on this laptop - and it played all the way through (slideshow not video)

gngr~snap
07-29-2011, 02:46 AM
I have read several times that she was 'found hanging, with a rope around her neck'. Not that she was found hanging 'by' a rope around her neck. Vague difference, that may or may not be important.
HE!! yes! That would be ligature strangultion and hung/displayed for someone to see! Like a fish on a hook! BAIT

Lawgirl
07-29-2011, 03:09 AM
I was searching for 'stepmother', 'shacknai', etc and came across this...now, its a relay for life team, (my daughter does this too), one of the children was on this spring. To the far right of the screen you;ll see the prizecontributors/sponsors?...KJ is included as a sponsor, along with 'someone' titled "wicked stepmonster of GS" WHO is that and what is that about? Rebecca?? Dina??

http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR/RelayForLife/RFLFY11GW?team_id=823721&pg=team&fr_id=34078

Hi,

I looked up stepmonster and there is a book written about the relationship between a step mom and the step children.

BrownRice
07-29-2011, 07:21 AM
I have never, ever heard this fact before, in all my studies. Could you please provide a link? I have actually been taught that stress, poverty and the abusers history of abuse are the greatest reasons for child abuse. I'd be interested if there is some stats in regards to your statement.

I don't have statistics, but I know I have read this over and over again (parents - LOTS of times step dads and mom's boyfriends arrested after disciplining the kid for bed wetting which resulted in the kid's death). Just google "killed bed wetting child" and there are more than a million search pages that come up. :sick:

Now, it seems more often than not it happens with younger parents and the less affluent. It boggles my mind that DS/JS argued about this. What the heck is there to argue about? It happens. I potty trained a child in a weekend with no problem for during the day. 3+ years before he didn't have to wear a pull up at night. Tried everything under the moon - read every book, tried rewards, etc. Nothing. Nothing we could do about it until it just clicked for him. Never once did my husband or I argue about it?

obmama
07-29-2011, 09:03 AM
along with 'someone' titled "wicked stepmonster of GS" WHO is that and what is that about? Rebecca?? Dina??


Good Find! Definitely Rebecca.
I don't see Dina having a relationship with GS, after the divorce, and doubt she'd make a charity contribution on her behalf.

"StepMONSTER" That bites! Especially, from the one she called "my daughter". The "my son", "my daughter" reference irked me, so I'd say GS didn't respond favorably. It oversteps boundaries, IMO.

When I met my boyfriend 13 years ago, his daughter was 11, his son 9. We were living together within a month, very happily the first two years, until the novelty (me) wore off. When his daughter turned 13, my life became Hell. There was resentment because I lived with him, she did not.

When they spent weekends, she wanted me out of the picture because I had him all week. She did everything to come between us, and Daddy's little girl could do no wrong. Kids shuffled between two households, particularly when relations are strained between parents, are cleverly manipulative to get what they want. They portray an innocence that no parent will doubt, and the "stepmonster" is always at fault.

I had a suspicion the two had problems. That nasty nickname out there for all to see, tells me JS wouldn't or couldn't do a thing about it. I'm still wondering what compelled her to post MS's death on Facebook, when it compromised the family's privacy. Not to mention the glaring absence of condolences for RN. I have a feeling the neighbor boy, who watched it all unfold from his rooftop, kept her posted on current events. He said they kept in touch by phone, and he's the one who put her early departure alibi out there.

I wondered if GS tweaked the facts and blamed MS's accident on RN, to remove responsibility from herself and put it on RN. Believe me, it is extremely frustrating to be doubted in your futile attempt to defend yourself, when favor is with a child who can do no wrong.

The sullen look at ES's bas mitzvah tells me she's not happy unless the center of attention. I thought it odd ES wasn't at the "summer home" with the rest of the "family". My bf's daughter used to call her dad to pick her up, before her brother got home from school, and tell her dad he didn't want to come. My bf was hurt that his son didn't want to spend the weekend, until I asked "who's doing the talking?" The next time she pulled this, he asked to talk to her brother. She said he wasn't home, then his son picked up the extension and asked why she was lying. Busted! I also wonder if GS felt resentment toward MS.

My bf was clueless to her manipulations. I once said he should discipline her, he said "she doesn't do anything wrong!" Just want to give my real life experiences in a blended household. A teenager's newfound independence can wreak havoc, and is not for the faint at heart. RN's cultural differences probably made it even more difficult.

Lawgirl
07-29-2011, 09:08 AM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1178&pictureid=12705http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1178&pictureid=12707http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1178&pictureid=12706

He looked better originally.

obmama
07-29-2011, 09:09 AM
I looked up stepmonster and there is a book written about the relationship between a step mom and the step children.


I bought a book called Stepmotherhood, to deal with my personal situation. Check my post for some real life examples of this living Hell!

sargenet
07-29-2011, 09:33 AM
When I met my boyfriend 13 years ago, his daughter was 11, his son 9. We were living together within a month, very happily the first two years, until the novelty (me) wore off. When his daughter turned 13, my life became Hell. There was resentment because I lived with him, she did not.

.

Same here! Girls were 11 and 13 when I met my husband and we had a great relationship (they lived with us...no mom in the picture at all). They supported the relationship and the marriage. Then 2 years later by 13 and 15..it all went downhill. I had a baby boy and the youngest became very jealous. Now the girls are 20 and 22. I have been calling myself "evil stepmonster" as a joke, but nothing I have done for these girls is enough. I have done so much for them..but I am now the enemy for some reason. Now the 20 year old wants nothing to do with me or her little brother ..and wants her daddy back. Wants him to divorce me and for things to go back to how their relationship was before he met me when he was a single dad...selfish crazy stuff....

Looks like there is a book I think I will go read based on recommendations here!

peace9274
07-29-2011, 09:36 AM
I hate to think that RN was not liked by her future step-children....
but boy, you sure got it right in your description & what happens in
a lot of step-mother/step-child relationships. Mine included.

obmama
07-29-2011, 09:39 AM
Anyone notice this odd coincidence?

http://poway.patch.com/articles/memorial-held-for-sdpd-detectives-daughter-and-new-spreckles-drama

The longtime SDPD chief of child abuse cases and her own daughter were found murdered a few days ago -- in circumstances eerily similar to the Shacknai case. She might have been involved in the determination of Max's cause of death, depending on when the Coronado police turned the case over to the San Diego PD.


No connection whatsoever. The mother and daughter were murdered by the 24 year old schitzophrenic, 300 lb. son, who lived in the household. She was with San Diego PD. The Coronado case is being handled by Coronado PD, San Diego Sheriff's Office, and California Justice Dept.

obmama
07-29-2011, 09:59 AM
[quote=Lawgirl;6961527]

I found the video sad, and her alone the majority of the photos....

Thank you!
There were those "photo shoot" pictures of JS & RN, and a couple pix of RN & MS, in the news. I wonder why they weren't included in the video. Not one of JS, her ex, or any men. Kind of contradicts the perception her sister gave, that they knew JS rather well.

Another thought, I'm thinking that picture frame they took for evidence, contained a large picture from one of the professional shoots. Her "violent death" portrayed anger, and I wonder if the picture was slashed, damaged or graffitied.

jjenny
07-29-2011, 10:11 AM
I am not convinced that whoever refers to herself as "stepmonster" is RN. For one, RN wasn't yet married to JS. So it could be DS. No doubt DS and the older two children had some sort of relationship while DS was married to their father.

IzzyBlanche
07-29-2011, 10:11 AM
Just for the record, we have no confirmation that JS and DS argued over Maxie's bedwetting. The original source said "soiled bedding" but as another poster--forget who--pointed out, that doesn't necessarily mean bedwetting, he could have been sick.

Now if anyone finds a source that specifically says bedwetting, I'll eat my words.

--Izzy "Just the Facts Ma'am" Blanche

obmama
07-29-2011, 10:15 AM
I have done so much for them..but I am now the enemy for some reason.

I hear ya! Fortunately, she's outgrown that stage and we get along well. But, you can't erase the past, so I never let my guard down.

There were problems in that household (obviously!) and I think RN had unrealistic expectations, that JS's money would buy her a storybook life.

I also noticed the variations in time they were together. Initially, it was two years. Then RN's sister said it was three years. I think the "two year story" was a cover up, that the relationship began while he was with DS.

Remembering that argument . . . "You will not leave me!" For a psychologist, it seems she's quite lacking in emotional control.

oceanblueeyes
07-29-2011, 10:36 AM
looks like it 100% to me.

That looks awfully thick to be an electrical cord to me.

imo

obmama
07-29-2011, 10:51 AM
I am not convinced that whoever refers to herself as "stepmonster" is RN. For one, RN wasn't yet married to JS. So it could be DS. No doubt DS and the older two children had some sort of relationship while DS was married to their father.

The fundraiser was May 2011. Two donations for $75 each were made, one from her mother and the other from the "Wicked Stepmonster of GS". In the same vein that RN called JS's kids "hers", I can't imagine it's anyone other than RN. I doubt she keeps contact with an ex-stepmother JS separated from in 2008, whose relationship with her father involved domestic violence.

Jade
07-29-2011, 10:54 AM
I have read several times that she was 'found hanging, with a rope around her neck'. Not that she was found hanging 'by' a rope around her neck. Vague difference, that may or may not be important.

While catching up on the threads I just read these articles that were linked in the page before your post:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/16/spreckels-mansion-owner-described-go-getter/


The nude body of his girlfriend, 32-year-old Rebecca M. Zahau, was found dangling by the neck from the rear balcony of the Spreckels mansion on Ocean Boulevard. Her wrists and ankles were bound.

bbm

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/25/woman-mansion-death-remembered-generous-kind/


Her body was found nude hanging from a balcony by the neck.


bbm

I see that this opinion piece takes a shortcut and just says hanging.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jul/24/aftermath-coronado-mansion-deaths-some-it-noir/


Two days after the July 11 fall, when the dying boy was in the hospital, the nude body of the girlfriend of the boy’s father is found hanging from a balcony, arms and legs bound.

bbm

The pickings are slim for sleuthing.

all imo

Hunnydolll
07-29-2011, 10:54 AM
Hello everyone!
Still way behind on this thread. Sorry if this has been posted already, but I found Rebecca's obit and a beautiful video memorial to her:

http://www.meierhoffer.com/obituaries/rebecca-m-zahau-2/

You have to click "video" to view it - I haven't watched the entire video yet

MizStery
07-29-2011, 10:54 AM
Peffrin,scorekeeper,time or paladine,
I believe.. it was one one of you who posted on one of the four threads ...posting rules for sleuthing i.e. All theories must be posted in the 1st person so it is clear it is your opinion only. Could you repost it. I was going to reread but the thread moves so quickly I went back to find it of course could not.Thanks

oceanblueeyes
07-29-2011, 10:57 AM
I hate to think that RN was not liked by her future step-children....
but boy, you sure got it right in your description & what happens in
a lot of step-mother/step-child relationships. Mine included.

I think that is overblown. Most parents who split like to think for some reason their children just cant like or really love their step mom or step dad when I know many of them that do dearly love their step parents.Sometimes even more than they do one of their own bio parents. Children do feed off of negative feed back said by one or both of their parents.

I have no doubt whatsoever when it comes to the love my husband's two daughters has for me. Now of course children are smart and know when to play both ends against the middle if they think it is to their advantage and they know how to play the system if they know their mom or dad doesn't like the other step parent.

I have 3 bio children of my own and my hubby has two and from minute one we had no infighting. We approached it head on when we knew we had fallen in love and would marry. We showed all of our children they had equal value and equal love and support from both of us. Almost 29 years later all 5 of them today are grown with families of their own now and are very close to all of their siblings.

We never used the word 'step' with our children. We didn't 'step' away from them or make them feel different due to biology. We made them feel included ........not excluded. They do not refer to their "step"(technically) brother and sisters as 'step-xxxxxx.' They simply say' this is my brother or this is my sister and that is the way they think because they were never taught to think otherwise. From the minute we were married they knew we were ONE family unit.

So I don't think there is anything in this case supporting that the children did not like their step parent or even disliked Rebecca their potential future step mom.

IMO

jjenny
07-29-2011, 10:57 AM
The fundraiser was May 2011. Two donations for $75 each were made, one from her mother and the other from the "Wicked Stepmonster of GS". In the same vein that RN called JS's kids "hers", I can't imagine it's anyone other than RN. I doubt she keeps contact with an ex-stepmother JS separated from in 2008, whose relationship with her father involved domestic violence.

Considering the 6 year old step-brother, why couldn't DS and GS keep in contact? After all, JS was clearly involved in the 6 year old life, so why couldn't that mother of the 6 year old still be in contact with the two older children?

obmama
07-29-2011, 11:15 AM
Just for the record, we have no confirmation that JS and DS argued over Maxie's bedwetting. The original source said "soiled bedding" but as another poster--forget who--pointed out, that doesn't necessarily mean bedwetting, he could have been sick.

Now if anyone finds a source that specifically says bedwetting, I'll eat my words.

--Izzy "Just the Facts Ma'am" Blanche

While it's not confirmed, I think most interpret "soiled bedding" as a politically correct description of "bed wetting". In fact, I googled it and got the same result.

If he was sick, I'd think it would be relevant enough to mention. I don't find it offensive - every kid has accidents, even some of us adults! And, it is very believable that JS & DS argued over it. I was potty trained at 9 months, because my "high expectations" father demanded it. My mother hid my "accidents" from him.

Charlie09
07-29-2011, 11:22 AM
I don't have statistics, but I know I have read this over and over again (parents - LOTS of times step dads and mom's boyfriends arrested after disciplining the kid for bed wetting which resulted in the kid's death). Just google "killed bed wetting child" and there are more than a million search pages that come up. :sick:

Now, it seems more often than not it happens with younger parents and the less affluent. It boggles my mind that DS/JS argued about this. What the heck is there to argue about? It happens. I potty trained a child in a weekend with no problem for during the day. 3+ years before he didn't have to wear a pull up at night. Tried everything under the moon - read every book, tried rewards, etc. Nothing. Nothing we could do about it until it just clicked for him. Never once did my husband or I argue about it?

this is taking things off topic - my 7 year old (who is truly a beloved, non-abused, joyful, bright kid) sleeps so dang soundly, this is still a problem with her, it's getting better, and I have hope in the next few months it'll be history that it was a problem. I can guarantee though that if her dad and I were in touch, this would be a HUGE argument and he would be horribly rude and mean to me about it. I can totally see this being an argument starter all the time. Especially if his older two didn't have the same issue.

pferrin
07-29-2011, 11:25 AM
Peffrin,scorekeeper,time or paladine,
I believe.. it was one one of you who posted on one of the four threads ...posting rules for sleuthing i.e. All theories must be posted in the 1st person so it is clear it is your opinion only. Could you repost it. I was going to reread but the thread moves so quickly I went back to find it of course could not.Thanks

It wasnt me..I have been looking as well..perhaps scorekeeper or Paladine will know.

Ocean blue eyes. I really enjoyed what you descibed about all your children. thanks

Paladine
07-29-2011, 11:35 AM
Hi,

I looked up stepmonster and there is a book written about the relationship between a step mom and the step children.

Is it titled, "the wicked stepmonster of GS"? As the donor is titled? ;)

MizStery
07-29-2011, 11:35 AM
It wasnt me..I have been looking as well..perhaps scorekeeper or Palitine will know.

Ocean blue eyes. I really enjoyed what you descibed about all your children. thanks

Thanks! It was a cautionary post on how to post 'your opinion' or your theory and not go afowl of sleuthing protocol. Also,to post that 'it is your opinion' so as not to get called on providing a link for your personal opinion.

Charlie09
07-29-2011, 11:36 AM
I think that is overblown. Most parents who split like to think for some reason their children just cant like or really love their step mom or step dad when I know many of them that do dearly love their step parents.Sometimes even more than they do one of their own bio parents. Children do feed off of negative feed back said by one or both of their parents.

I have no doubt whatsoever when it comes to the love my husband's two daughters has for me. Now of course children are smart and know when to play both ends against the middle if they think it is to their advantage and they know how to play the system if they know their mom or dad doesn't like the other step parent.

I have 3 bio children of my own and my hubby has two and from minute one we had no infighting. We approached it head on when we knew we had fallen in love and would marry. We showed all of our children they had equal value and equal love and support from both of us. Almost 29 years later all 5 of them today are grown with families of their own now and are very close to all of their siblings.

We never used the word 'step' with our children. We didn't 'step' away from them or make them feel different due to biology. We made them feel included ........not excluded. They do not refer to their "step"(technically) brother and sisters as 'step-xxxxxx.' They simply say' this is my brother or this is my sister and that is the way they think because they were never taught to think otherwise. From the minute we were married they knew we were ONE family unit.

So I don't think there is anything in this case supporting that the children did not like their step parent or even disliked Rebecca their potential future step mom.

IMO

Here's what I believe is different. You are (at least seemingly :) ) normal, and want what is best for you and your husband as a couple, and your family as a whole.

I believe from what we've seen by his behavior, JS cared more about himself than he did the well being of ANYone in his family.

obmama
07-29-2011, 11:51 AM
So I don't think there is anything in this case supporting that the children did not like their step parent or even disliked Rebecca their potential future step mom.

IMO

I don't think many families are spared from rivalry, "step" or not, at some point in their lifetimes. Obviously, you and your husband were prepared to dispel the common belief that blended families can't get along.

The "wicked stepmother" persona comes from a fairy tale, and hardly represents most children's relationship with their stepparents, if only out of love for their biological parents. But, I think most go through a rocky period at some point, just as they do with their real parents. I connect this with a show of new independence during their teenaged years.

You've been a family for 29 years, Rebecca was a new member to JS's family. I don't think "wicked stepmonster" is a show of affection, I find it disrespectful and hurtful toward the person it was directed at, especially when it was in recognition of a gift on a public website for all to see.

The failure to acknowledge RN's passing in a sympathetic gesture, by both JS and GS (if only for show), is ill mannered and cold hearted. This family is a far cry from yours.

Paladine
07-29-2011, 11:56 AM
Good Find! Definitely Rebecca.
I don't see Dina having a relationship with GS, after the divorce, and doubt she'd make a charity contribution on her behalf.

"StepMONSTER" That bites! Especially, from the one she called "my daughter". The "my son", "my daughter" reference irked me, so I'd say GS didn't respond favorably. It oversteps boundaries, IMO.

When I met my boyfriend 13 years ago, his daughter was 11, his son 9. We were living together within a month, very happily the first two years, until the novelty (me) wore off. When his daughter turned 13, my life became Hell. There was resentment because I lived with him, she did not.

When they spent weekends, she wanted me out of the picture because I had him all week. She did everything to come between us, and Daddy's little girl could do no wrong. Kids shuffled between two households, particularly when relations are strained between parents, are cleverly manipulative to get what they want. They portray an innocence that no parent will doubt, and the "stepmonster" is always at fault.

I had a suspicion the two had problems. That nasty nickname out there for all to see, tells me JS wouldn't or couldn't do a thing about it. I'm still wondering what compelled her to post MS's death on Facebook, when it compromised the family's privacy. Not to mention the glaring absence of condolences for RN. I have a feeling the neighbor boy, who watched it all unfold from his rooftop, kept her posted on current events. He said they kept in touch by phone, and he's the one who put her early departure alibi out there.

I wondered if GS tweaked the facts and blamed MS's accident on RN, to remove responsibility from herself and put it on RN. Believe me, it is extremely frustrating to be doubted in your futile attempt to defend yourself, when favor is with a child who can do no wrong.

The sullen look at ES's bas mitzvah tells me she's not happy unless the center of attention. I thought it odd ES wasn't at the "summer home" with the rest of the "family". My bf's daughter used to call her dad to pick her up, before her brother got home from school, and tell her dad he didn't want to come. My bf was hurt that his son didn't want to spend the weekend, until I asked "who's doing the talking?" The next time she pulled this, he asked to talk to her brother. She said he wasn't home, then his son picked up the extension and asked why she was lying. Busted! I also wonder if GS felt resentment toward MS.

My bf was clueless to her manipulations. I once said he should discipline her, he said "she doesn't do anything wrong!" Just want to give my real life experiences in a blended household. A teenager's newfound independence can wreak havoc, and is not for the faint at heart. RN's cultural differences probably made it even more difficult.

RBBM

Man, can I relate! My recent wealthy EX had 2 children; they were 15 and 17 when I came into the picture. They did not like it. They saw me as a threat to their inheritence. They did everything they could to cause discord. And the daughter reminded me so much of ICA! Me, me, me. (hidden pregnancy, compulsive liar, and all!) We couldn't go out to eat without bringing HER something back or she would be so pizzed. When he bought me a gift, he had to hide it OR buy her something, too! When I went to the salon, he had to pay for her to go too...she could be left out of nothing! She even fought with my 8 yr old over a playstation...he was playing and SHE wanted to play..she was 16!

Some on here might recall when I disappeared for awhile...I mentioned a bit of my situation. I left him, disappeared, and took nothing. So much for worry about ME taking a piece of HER pie, lol...I have never been happier, poorer, but happier. ;)

The Ex still calls my Mom a yr later wanting me back. No matter if I DO still have feelings and miss my old life, I cannot go because of those kids...they made it hell. They do not 'share' well. ;)

ETA: to illustrate it: We were walking towards a shopping center, this was the first time I met his daughter; she's 15...she grabs his arm and reaches for his wallet...then takes the wallet and cradles it in her hands, and with a BIG disarming smile and her arm wrapped around her fathers, she says, " This is MY wallet"...:) He thought it so cute. I saw the message she was sending me...THEN, same day, we go to a restaurant...I smoke, the ex is an anti-smoking health nut. She follows me in the restroom and asks me to give her a cigarrette behind her Dads back! I told her no way, her Dad would not like that and I cannot hide it from him...and off to the races we went! ;) Hell, I tell ya.

jjenny
07-29-2011, 12:15 PM
I don't think many families are spared from rivalry, "step" or not, at some point in their lifetimes. Obviously, you and your husband were prepared to dispel the common belief that blended families can't get along.

The "wicked stepmother" persona comes from a fairy tale, and hardly represents most children's relationship with their stepparents, if only out of love for their biological parents. But, I think most go through a rocky period at some point, just as they do with their real parents. I connect this with a show of new independence during their teenaged years.

You've been a family for 29 years, Rebecca was a new member to JS's family. I don't think "wicked stepmonster" is a show of affection, I find it disrespectful and hurtful toward the person it was directed at, especially when it was in recognition of a gift on a public website for all to see.
...

Wicked stepmonster sounds like a joke. Whoever donated the money (be it DS or RN) probably called herself that.

Paladine
07-29-2011, 12:22 PM
Wicked stepmonster sounds like a joke. Whoever donated the money (be it DS or RN) probably called herself that.

With all respect, jjenny, I do not know 1 step-mother who finds that term funny, let alone to be posted on a page like that? 'WICKED' is where I get stuck. Wouldn't it be much nicer to be called the StepMOTHER....I'm into niceties. ;)

peace9274
07-29-2011, 12:27 PM
Wicked stepmonster sounds like a joke. Whoever donated the money (be it DS or RN) probably called herself that.

That is exactly what I think! I think is was DS making a donation
& signing herself "the wicked step-monster."

My son just got married to a wonderful young lady.
We adore & love each other, but we both sometimes
jokingly refer to me as "Monster-in-law".

Paladine
07-29-2011, 12:27 PM
Just for the record, we have no confirmation that JS and DS argued over Maxie's bedwetting. The original source said "soiled bedding" but as another poster--forget who--pointed out, that doesn't necessarily mean bedwetting, he could have been sick.

Now if anyone finds a source that specifically says bedwetting, I'll eat my words.

--Izzy "Just the Facts Ma'am" Blanche

I found it and posted it last night, look upthread a couple pages, Dina said it in a 2 page letter describing the fights ...:) No need to eat words, though, Izzy...;)

ETA: I SEE....you're questioning whether 'soiled bedding' is 'bedwetting'...feels a little like "is it 'trash' or 'garbage' ", to me, lol...BUT...I respect your point. :)

Paladine
07-29-2011, 12:45 PM
Found this interesting tidbit posted on a separate forum. I researched the guy and he sounds legit. He also happens to be Michael Jackson's dermatologist as well and a friend to the stars (Liz Taylor, etc.)

A post in the Wall Street Journal:
For many years I was the main consultant to Medicis Pharmaceutical
Corporation run by Jonah Shacknai. I popularized their injectable filler
Restylane for wrinkle and lip augmentation by giving courses throughout
the US, Canada and Europe. Simultaneously Jonah used unlicensed foreign
doctors and sponsored courses and their educational seminars. At many
of the courses these individuals would treat patients. The main example
of this was Drs. Jean and Alastair Carruthers of Vancouver who created
and distributed a CD of my work and injection techniques through Johns
Hopkins! Furthermore, Jean published a paper describing my technique in
which she positioned herself as the senior author. in whichdecided she
would be the senior author on a lip injection paper. Subsequently,I did a
lip study for Medicis and then spent over 40 hours writing this pivitol
paper on lip enhancement with Restylane. The paper had to be accurate
and not like the ghastly ghost written “data” that floods the medical
literature. I also warned Medicis not to present this data to the FDA in
that it contained my personal injection techniques. I would expect that
it is very unusual for someone else to present the data. Contrary to my
agreement with Medicis they never published the paper I wrote on lip
augmentation and they presented my data to the FDA to expand the lip
study to multiple sites. With this expanded lip data Medicis gained FDA
approval for lip augmentation. As the money kept rolling in Jonah’s
houses kept getting larger and larger with Jonah himself developing
extreme arrogance totally losing contact with reality and developed a
tremendous overestimation of his capabilities, especially in regard to
his power. Needless to say though I had a signed agreement with Medicis
for my initial study on lips and the paper for $280,000 this did not
include the expanded studies and the work that would lead to FDA
approval in which they promised participation. But Jonah never paid me
and ceased to talk to me but as his wealth increased so did his
satyriasis --- his excessive, often uncontrollable sexual desire. Maybe
this was his desire to remain forever young.
But this illness may very
well account for what happened at the Spreckles mansion as it did for
the action at Dupont Estate in Deleware.Arnold W. Klein, MD
Professor of Medicine and Dermatology
UCLA
Klein Chair in Dermatology UCLA

RBBM

What was that about? What happened at the Dupont Estate, anyone know?

oceanblueeyes
07-29-2011, 12:49 PM
I don't think many families are spared from rivalry, "step" or not, at some point in their lifetimes. Obviously, you and your husband were prepared to dispel the common belief that blended families can't get along.

The "wicked stepmother" persona comes from a fairy tale, and hardly represents most children's relationship with their stepparents, if only out of love for their biological parents. But, I think most go through a rocky period at some point, just as they do with their real parents. I connect this with a show of new independence during their teenaged years.

You've been a family for 29 years, Rebecca was a new member to JS's family. I don't think "wicked stepmonster" is a show of affection, I find it disrespectful and hurtful toward the person it was directed at, especially when it was in recognition of a gift on a public website for all to see.

The failure to acknowledge RN's passing in a sympathetic gesture, by both JS and GS (if only for show), is ill mannered and cold hearted. This family is a far cry from yours.

Of course our children weren't perfect. They went through their teen angst just like any family goes through and we dealt with it equally because they are all equal in our eyes. I couldn't be prouder of all of them today. They were taught love, acceptance and inclusions and it shows positively in their daily lives and for that I am deeply thankful.

Yes, our marriage has been for 29 years now but we dated for two years before then. All of our children wanted us to marry each other. In fact our son gave me away at the wedding and when he spoke when asked 'who gives this woman in marriage?" he answered proudly "My sisters and I." So our relationship and bond with all of our children began way before we were married.

As far as JS not making a public statement. I do not fault him for that. He was at her funeral and he sat with her family. That is what he should have done and he did it. Speaking out to the media is not going to help LE find out what happened to Rebecca. He was among those that really count and those are the people that loved Rebecca. He was with her family and friends so no doubt they know his sadness is real or not. Since they have not accused Jonah of any wrongdoing I do believe they all believe his love for her. Her family said she was very happy in the relationship.

Speaking out publicly can sometimes be the worst thing to do. Some in society are very mean spirited and will find fault when loved ones speak out. Their words get twisted too and taken out of context and turned into another interpretation that wasnt meant to be taken a certain way.

So imo he is better to not speak out publicly and let LE handle this case totally so they can come to a correct resolution. He too may think it isn't a sucide.

IMO

Paladine
07-29-2011, 12:52 PM
Peffrin,scorekeeper,time or paladine,
I believe.. it was one one of you who posted on one of the four threads ...posting rules for sleuthing i.e. All theories must be posted in the 1st person so it is clear it is your opinion only. Could you repost it. I was going to reread but the thread moves so quickly I went back to find it of course could not.Thanks

I simply posted a post reminding newbies that theories need to be clearly expressed as such or a link will be asked for...now, we have official WS posting rules on one of the main pages, I haven't been there for years, lol...maybe a mod, or someone else can throw a direct link up...but it's easy to find, I think...

Dum-Dum Sucker
07-29-2011, 12:53 PM
You know, looking at before and after pictures, it almost looks like he had a face lift. A major face lift, as Restolyne is temporary and this looks way permanent. If not, maybe a face lift that was enhanced by his products. Restolyne wouldn't change facial structure and his looks different to me. )Sorry if I mis spelled the product name, as I have no idea how it is spelled.)

Looks like he had a chin job, too.

MizStery
07-29-2011, 12:56 PM
RBBM

What was that about? What happened at the Dupont Estate, anyone know?

This is from about.com:
John W. Dupont
From about.com


People who spent time around DuPont described his behavior as bizarre. Throughout the years he changed from being odd to increasingly unstable. DuPont was hallucinating that the trees on his property were moving around. He also razor wired his attic because he thought people were going to break in and kill him. His ex-wife complained that during their short marriage from 1982 to 1985, DuPont accused her of being a spy and pointed guns to her head.
David Schultz:

David Schultz was an Olympic champion wrestler who was living on the DuPont property. On January 6, 1996 John DuPont shot several bullets into Schultz, killing him. Reasons for his actions are still unknown.
The Stand Off:

After DuPont killed Schultz he barricaded himself inside his massive mansion. Police negotiated with the 56-year-old DuPont for two days. On the second day, the temperature was extremely cold so the police disabled the home's heating. DuPont exited his home to investigate what was wrong with his heater and the police were able to overcome him and take him into custody, charging him with murder.
DuPont's Trial:

During DuPont's trial it was determined that he was mentally ill. He was found guilty of third degree murder and sentenced to up to 30 years in prison or a mental institution; whichever best fits his mental state until he completes his sentence. He was also required to reimburse Delaware $742,107 for trial costs.

pferrin
07-29-2011, 01:00 PM
dupont murder

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FJohn_El euth%25C3%25A8re_du_Pont&ei=y-YyTpKmE5GFsALUurz1Cg&usg=AFQjCNEOJOCaf2A-AGrNaVE1dmQX19Vcmw

MizStery
07-29-2011, 01:00 PM
I simply posted a post reminding newbies that theories need to be clearly expressed as such or a link will be asked for...now, we have official WS posting rules on one of the main pages, I haven't been there for years, lol...maybe a mod, or someone else can throw a direct link up...but it's easy to find, I think...

I love clarity. Your post was very well expressed. Thanks for the heads up. Just something to keep in mind when sleuthing.:fence:

Paladine
07-29-2011, 01:01 PM
thanks, Mizstery and pferrin....wow, sad ending. So, Klein thinks JS is a little off-balance, shall we say? ;) That's my takeaway.

obmama
07-29-2011, 01:01 PM
RBBM
They do not 'share' well. ;)


I see this being quite probable. Rumor has it that JS planned to propose. I didn't give it much credibility, as it was being circulated in a less credible media circle. But, I'm leaning towards believing it as true.

*The party planned for Tuesday night. An engagement party?
*Just weeks earlier, JS transferred $5 million stock into a trust fund for his children.
*RN quit her job in December
*After two years with JS, her divorce from NN was final in January, and she took her maiden name a few months ago.

It's a major step to cut off your income and be totally dependent on your live-in boyfriend, without a guaranteed commitment. Her sister said she'd never been happier, her ex said her relationship with JS was great. Although, I still don't get why she was discussing a joint credit card with NN, the week before her death.

That "wicked stepmonster" reference was in May 2011. I imagine JS's plan to marry RN, if true, would not be well-received by GS at all. RN and JS both professed a love for children, and at 32 years old, RN was probably anxious to start a family. It seems JS would never sully his image with an illegitimate child, so a marriage proposal seems to fit right into the scheme of things. Until the tragic events that happened two weeks ago, that is.

pferrin
07-29-2011, 01:03 PM
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-09-18/news/1998261062_1_du-pont-family-moseley-john-du

another dupont murder case...not john

sargenet
07-29-2011, 01:12 PM
*The party planned for Tuesday night. An engagement party?
.

I have a feeling that IF he had planned to propose (and maybe announce it at a party) that he might have made DS aware beforehand. Especially since they did have a child together that would be impacted by a marriage. Makes me wonder if DS knew that RN had been watching Max during the day all by herself and approved...or if she thought he was with his father instead...

I know I might not feel real comfortable if my son went to spend time with his dad...but the dad left him instead with his girlfriend. Especially if there was some tension there...and then a tragedy happens...on the girlfriend's watch...

Yep can't wait to see if JS or DS left the hospital that night....

Malini2001
07-29-2011, 01:17 PM
I was searching for 'stepmother', 'shacknai', etc and came across this...now, its a relay for life team, (my daughter does this too), one of the children was on this spring. To the far right of the screen you;ll see the prizecontributors/sponsors?...KJ is included as a sponsor, along with 'someone' titled "wicked stepmonster of GS" WHO is that and what is that about? Rebecca?? Dina??

http://main.acsevents.org/site/TR/RelayForLife/RFLFY11GW?team_id=823721&pg=team&fr_id=34078

When you donate money on line you can choose to have yourself listed or not. If you choose not to list it will show as "anonymous." Whoever donated the money supplied the name to be shown in the scroll box. So I think the "wicked stepmonster" is an inside joke.

Paladine
07-29-2011, 01:25 PM
Numerology done on this case, I miss Astrology threads :(

http://edpetersonnumerology.com/2011/07/21/numerology-for-jonah-shacknai-and-rebecca-nalepa/

pferrin
07-29-2011, 01:28 PM
Big Boys and Girls in business sometimes act like 5 year olds. I give Zero credence to the words of JS former business associate. Sounds like he is trying to exact some revenge. And I give the same weight to DS and JS marital bickering..As many of the men that I was fortunate enough to work with would say...If you dont want no chit dont start no chit.
this has been a valuable lesson for me throughout my business career and life.

Paladine
07-29-2011, 01:30 PM
When you donate money on line you can choose to have yourself listed or not. If you choose not to list it will show as "anonymous." Whoever donated the money supplied the name to be shown in the scroll box. So I think the "wicked stepmonster" is an inside joke.

My Daughter does relay for life every year. She gets the cash and gives it to the team leader. I do not recall even writing my name anywhere...

I STILL stick to my position, after all I've read on this case and this woman, albeit less than I'd hope, that RN, IF this is who is referred to, and imo, it is, would not happily call herself the "wicked stepmonster".

ETA: Now, someone may have donated online to GS in "the wicked stepmonster of GS'' 's name....? IMO

Maybe KJ split her $150 into 2 $75.00 payments? I THINK theres a min to belong to the team...here, anyways...I'll see what I can find on that but I recall my daughter saying she needed a certain amount of money to participate in Relay for Life...sponsors, but money...unsure on this...

jjenny
07-29-2011, 01:41 PM
My Daughter does relay for life every year. She gets the cash and gives it to the team leader. I do not recall even writing my name anywhere...

I STILL stick to my position, after all I've read on this case and this woman, albeit less than I'd hope, that RN, IF this is who is referred to, and imo, it is, would not happily call herself the "wicked stepmonster".

ETA: Now, someone may have donated online to GS in "the wicked stepmonster of GS'' 's name....? IMO

Maybe KJ split her $150 into 2 $75.00 payments? I THINK theres a min to belong to the team...here, anyways...I'll see what I can find on that but I recall my daughter saying she needed a certain amount of money to participate in Relay for Life...sponsors, but money...unsure on this...

There is a form there for an on-line donation. I could donate right now and give myself any sort of name as I wanted it to appear on the website (it even says so on an on-line form- Name as you would like it to appear on the Web site.) So clearly whoever donated could have called herself a wicked stepmonster knowing that is how it was going to appear on the website. It sounds like a joke from a person who donated the money, and the name is clearly not coming from the child herself.

Paladine
07-29-2011, 01:44 PM
There is a form there for an on-line donation. I could donate right now and give myself any sort of name as I wanted it to appear on the website. So clearly whoever donated could have called herself a wicked stepmonster knowing that is how it was going to appear on the website. It sounds like a joke from a person who donated the money, and the name is clearly not coming from the child herself.

RBBM

I can agree with that.

I can't see it being Rebecca doing it, though...

CuriousAmazon
07-29-2011, 01:47 PM
I am not convinced that whoever refers to herself as "stepmonster" is RN. For one, RN wasn't yet married to JS. So it could be DS. No doubt DS and the older two children had some sort of relationship while DS was married to their father.

RZ referred to MS and GS as her son and daughter, when she spoke with the doggy daycare. It is very probable she considered herself the Stepmother. DS would no longer be a stepmother after the divorce, plus don't see her caring anything about the other kids. Also in the bar mitzvah pic, RZ is there not DS. My theory is that it is RZ. Although I don't understand why RZ would refer to herself as the wicked Stepmonster. I know when I donated to relay for life for my child's fundraiser, I filled the donor information out, why would I post something negative like that about myself? Okay I'm gonna shoot my theory out of here, unless DS through her child still considers herself the stepmother. Plus if RZ donated, it would probably say JS & RZ or just JS...so it may very well be DS. Geeezzzz, I love arguing against myself :floorlaugh:

obmama
07-29-2011, 01:52 PM
Yep can't wait to see if JS or DS left the hospital that night....

As far as we know, JS never returned to the mansion after JS's accident. Since Rebecca's death, it's been either off limits by LE or a 24 hour security guard. Coronado is probably a 20 minute drive from Rady's (on a good day). He could have checked into the Hotel Del, walking distance from his summer home. But, with Hotel Circle only 5 minutes away, it makes sense he would check into one of the "extended stay" hotels for the week.

He left Coronado with "only the clothes on his back", unprepared for the week's events. The hospital is five minutes away from two shopping malls, so either he or a family member probably shopped for toiletries and a few changes of clothes. I'm going to check news videos on Saturday, after RN's death. There was a brief appearance of two people loading suitcases into a car parked in the driveway. I assumed it was RN's family, picking up her personal effects. Most likely, there's access from the rear for the guest houses. The media was camped out in front for days, but never captured AS's whereabouts and when he departed. I don't think JS left for AZ, until Monday or Tuesday.

Last I heard was LE procured a SW for Rady's security tapes. It sounded as if LE took JS's word that he was there, but it was never confirmed. I think hospital staff would be able to confirm to some extent, but their job is to tend to patients, not perform surveillance on visitors.

There's one person whose received little attention on these threads, Dina's sister, Nina. I did a brief "people search" and found her in Phoenix, 39 and 43 years old, with two aliases, Mendez and Monaco. Nothing much else. She was at the hospital and is the person who said Max was getting an MRI Wednesday a.m., the same morning Rebecca died. IMO, it was probably to confirm what they already new. I did see one reference to MS's death to be on Friday, but the source might have been going with GS's Facebook, not JS's formal announcement on Sunday. I assume that was the day they removed life support.

I can't help but feel compassion for MS's parents, and I hardly think their attention was on RN during the 48 hours following his accident. Unless, they were so enraged that it happened "under her watch", which has been emphasized by the media, they acted irrationally. I just think they'd want to cherish every last moment with their son, during his final days.

jjenny
07-29-2011, 01:53 PM
RZ referred to MS and GS as her son and daughter, when she spoke with the doggy daycare. It is very probable she considered herself the Stepmother. DS would no longer be a stepmother after the divorce, plus don't see her caring anything about the other kids. Also in the bar mitzvah pic, RZ is there not DS. My theory is that it is RZ. Although I don't understand why RZ would refer to herself as the wicked Stepmonster. I know when I donated to relay for life for my child's fundraiser, I filled the donor information out, why would I post something negative like that about myself? Okay I'm gonna shoot my theory out of here, unless DS through her child still considers herself the stepmother. Plus if RZ donated, it would probably say JS & RZ or just JS...so it may very well be DS. Geeezzzz, I love arguing against myself :floorlaugh:

The person who donated on-line would have filled out the name as she wanted it to appear on the website (per instructions on the on-line donation form). Maybe DS used to call herself that as an inside joke (when she was married to JS) and still called herself that as she donated the money. Maybe RN called herself that as an inside joke. Clearly based on the form provided, whoever donated the money filled out the name as she wanted it to appear on the website.

Paladine
07-29-2011, 01:54 PM
I BELIEVE that statement by justice be served was prefaced by it being a theory or an opinion ETA: at end of post: ...since they are a new poster, the wording throughout the post may have veered to what appeared to be posted as fact...I'm not sure it was intentional.

New posters need to remember if one cannot provide a link, it must clearly be stated as a theory...throughout the post...ALL imo, of course. It can be hard to learn...but it is learned...or peeps will ask for links. :)

sorry for quoting myself...but is the one you were referring to, MizStery?

CuriousAmazon
07-29-2011, 01:56 PM
Numerology done on this case, I miss Astrology threads :(

http://edpetersonnumerology.com/2011/07/21/numerology-for-jonah-shacknai-and-rebecca-nalepa/

Thanks for sharing!

CuriousAmazon
07-29-2011, 01:58 PM
Maybe KJ split her $150 into 2 $75.00 payments? I THINK theres a min to belong to the team...here, anyways...I'll see what I can find on that but I recall my daughter saying she needed a certain amount of money to participate in Relay for Life...sponsors, but money...unsure on this...

I was team captain for mine, and it was a minimum of $10. Which is great because some of these fundraisers require an outrageous amount [that we couldn't come up with] just to participate.

scorekeeper
07-29-2011, 02:04 PM
Big Boys and Girls in business sometimes act like 5 year olds. I give Zero credence to the words of JS former business associate. Sounds like he is trying to exact some revenge. And I give the same weight to DS and JS marital bickering..As many of the men that I was fortunate enough to work with would say...If you dont want no chit dont start no chit.
this has been a valuable lesson for me throughout my business career and life.

I would also think nothing of the business dealings or "marital bickering" IF we did not have pictures and police reports that shows abuse....

I believe in Ohio if there is a domestic disturbance the State will file charges without either party having too. Which I guess they dont have in AZ....

CuriousAmazon
07-29-2011, 02:04 PM
The person who donated on-line would have filled out the name as she wanted it to appear on the website (per instructions on the on-line donation form). Maybe DS used to call herself that as an inside joke (when she was married to JS) and still called herself that as she donated the money. Maybe RN called herself that as an inside joke. Clearly based on the form provided, whoever donated the money filled out the name as she wanted it to appear on the website.

I agree with u!

Dr. Know?
07-29-2011, 02:17 PM
I would also think nothing of the business dealings or "marital bickering" IF we did not have pictures and police reports that shows abuse....

I believe in Ohio if there is a domestic disturbance the State will file charges without either party having too. Which I guess they dont have in AZ....

Hey Ohio, born and raised there! AZ will file.

Q: If my wife believes she made a mistake when she called the police, can she have the domestic violence charges against me dropped?

A: No. The prosecutor, not the victim, makes the charging decision. It is common for a domestic violence victim to attempt to recant the statement he or she made to police. However, because the victim may be pressured to change his or her story and because domestic violence frequently recurs, the prosecutor generally will file the charges if there is sufficient evidence of domestic abuse - even if the victim changes his or her story.

http://www.azdomesticviolencelawyer.com/CM/FSDP/PracticeCenter/Criminal-Law/Domestic-Violence.asp?focus=faq

MizStery
07-29-2011, 02:18 PM
sorry for quoting myself...but is the one you were referring to, MizStery?

That's it. I looked high and low for your post. Well,woohoo... Paladine ...IOU a giant websleuths thanks. You saved my sanity. :woohoo:

Paladine
07-29-2011, 02:24 PM
Found this interesting tidbit posted on a separate forum. I researched the guy and he sounds legit. He also happens to be Michael Jackson's dermatologist as well and a friend to the stars (Liz Taylor, etc.)

A post in the Wall Street Journal:
For many years I was the main consultant to Medicis Pharmaceutical
Corporation run by Jonah Shacknai. I popularized their injectable filler
Restylane for wrinkle and lip augmentation by giving courses throughout
the US, Canada and Europe. Simultaneously Jonah used unlicensed foreign
doctors and sponsored courses and their educational seminars. At many
of the courses these individuals would treat patients. The main example
of this was Drs. Jean and Alastair Carruthers of Vancouver who created
and distributed a CD of my work and injection techniques through Johns
Hopkins! Furthermore, Jean published a paper describing my technique in
which she positioned herself as the senior author. in whichdecided she
would be the senior author on a lip injection paper. Subsequently,I did a
lip study for Medicis and then spent over 40 hours writing this pivitol
paper on lip enhancement with Restylane. The paper had to be accurate
and not like the ghastly ghost written “data” that floods the medical
literature. I also warned Medicis not to present this data to the FDA in
that it contained my personal injection techniques. I would expect that
it is very unusual for someone else to present the data. Contrary to my
agreement with Medicis they never published the paper I wrote on lip
augmentation and they presented my data to the FDA to expand the lip
study to multiple sites. With this expanded lip data Medicis gained FDA
approval for lip augmentation. As the money kept rolling in Jonah’s
houses kept getting larger and larger with Jonah himself developing
extreme arrogance totally losing contact with reality and developed a
tremendous overestimation of his capabilities, especially in regard to
his power. Needless to say though I had a signed agreement with Medicis
for my initial study on lips and the paper for $280,000 this did not
include the expanded studies and the work that would lead to FDA
approval in which they promised participation. But Jonah never paid me
and ceased to talk to me but as his wealth increased so did his
satyriasis --- his excessive, often uncontrollable sexual desire. Maybe
this was his desire to remain forever young. But this illness may very
well account for what happened at the Spreckles mansion as it did for
the action at Dupont Estate in Deleware.

Arnold W. Klein, MD
Professor of Medicine and Dermatology
UCLA
Klein Chair in Dermatology UCLA

Had to google that one....;) Gladly, I've never encountered it myself. ;)


sa·ty·ri·a·sis (st-r-ss, st-)
n.
Excessive, often uncontrollable sexual desire in a man.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/satyriasis

This is a reputable person, imo. This is quite the statement for him to make...I wonder how it fits in.

obmama
07-29-2011, 02:25 PM
Looking at their court case, it looks like in August 2010 RZ's husband NN petitioned for divorce. Also interestingly enough, the court received an address update for RZ on June 30, 2011.

Not sure if any of this provides any new clues. I do find it interesting that RZ didn't petition for divorce and the husband took this long to do it. Then four months later she quits her job to take care of a new family.

Maybe June 30, 2011 is the date her name change was final. Napeka is her married name, most of the local media refers to her by Zahau, her maiden name.

I read somewhere she was married to NN for eight years. I find it odd she was married throughout most of her relationship with Jonah, which is commonly believed to be two years. Her sister says three years, which I mentioned in an earlier post, may overlap the period he was not separated from DS. The sister of a signonsandiego writer, was DS's personal assistant. She reported a tumultous divorce, that was further antagonized by his relationship with DN. It's said they met through "mutual friends".

scorekeeper
07-29-2011, 02:27 PM
Going back over old articles...

Nalepa was hung from a three-foot railing by a rope, Curran said, with her hands tied behind her back. She had bindings on each leg, but they were not tied together.

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/woman-who-died-at-spreckels-mansion-found-hanging-nude-from-balcony

The above is dated July 14; the day after RN was found.

BBM Something I missed or overlooked. :waitasec:

Bindings on each leg - not tied together - why would she have bindings on her legs? Was she tied to a chair/bed beforehand????

hands tied behind back - with the photos previously posted - would it seem then that the orange, construction extension cord was only around her hands??? Could be the reason there is so much of it seen in the pictures?

Paladine
07-29-2011, 02:29 PM
That's it. I looked high and low for your post. Well,woohoo... Paladine ...IOU a giant websleuths thanks. You saved my sanity. :woohoo:

You are too kind.

A simple way to find a post from a certain poster? Click their name to view their profile (or your own, if you want to find one of yours), then click statistics, then click, find all posts by ***** , and then search posts...:)

WS is a pretty organized place thanks to Trisha. And ALL her helpers. :)

Paladine
07-29-2011, 02:34 PM
Going back over old articles...

Nalepa was hung from a three-foot railing by a rope, Curran said, with her hands tied behind her back. She had bindings on each leg, but they were not tied together.

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/woman-who-died-at-spreckels-mansion-found-hanging-nude-from-balcony

The above is dated July 14; the day after RN was found.

BBM Something I missed or overlooked. :waitasec:

Bindings on each leg - not tied together - why would she have bindings on her legs? Was she tied to a chair/bed beforehand???? hands tied behind back - with the photos previously posted - would it seem then that the orange, construction extension cord was only around her hands??? Could be the reason there is so much of it seen in the pictures?

RBBM

THAT is incriminating and leads me to think MURDER. Why bind your own legs yet not bind them TOGETHER? I want to hear the police reason for THAT!

jstwondering
07-29-2011, 02:37 PM
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1998-09-18/news/1998261062_1_du-pont-family-moseley-john-du

another dupont murder case...not john

Good Slueting! I think you found the right Dupont murder. I remember seeing this so long ago in either a made-for-tv movie, or 48 hours... something, that it is foggy now, so I google'd it and found this very long, more salacious article from Vanity Fair.
http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/archive/1999/09/dunne199909

The gist of the story is old DuPont Heiress doesn't like sleezy, druggy, trashy woman that loser son is dating. Gets current husband (long line of husbands...) to hire people to kill her in Vegas. Lots of low-life characters & kinky sex implied.

Anyway, this is neither here nor there, and if you look at my link way up thread from last night, this Michael Jackson dermatologist that started this whole off topic discussion, is very questionable himself, and has no qualms about inserting himself into the headlines when he can. IMO

scorekeeper
07-29-2011, 02:38 PM
Had to google that one....;) Gladly, I've never encountered it myself. ;)



http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/satyriasis

This is a reputable person, imo. This is quite the statement for him to make...I wonder how it fits in.


Yes, it is, even if they parted ways. There is probably some truth somewhere in his statement.

In his previous photos, JS doesn't appear to accept the aging process (even though most men age well and always looks "distinguished") but I guess he needs to use his products.....

I remember posting awhile back about 4 possible lawsuits against JS's company for patent enfringements and a class action suit filed with the SEC over the company's annual earnings reports not be factual or correct...

I get the feeling that JS is someone that always has to have "the last word".

Paladine
07-29-2011, 02:43 PM
Maybe June 30, 2011 is the date her name change was final. Napeka is her married name, most of the local media refers to her by Zahau, her maiden name.

I read somewhere she was married to NN for eight years. I find it odd she was married throughout most of her relationship with Jonah, which is commonly believed to be two years. Her sister says three years, which I mentioned in an earlier post, may overlap the period he was not separated from DS. The sister of a signonsandiego writer, was DS's personal assistant. She reported a tumultous divorce, that was further antagonized by his relationship with DN. It's said they met through "mutual friends".

RBBM

I, too, heard the sister reported as saying the relationship was 2-3 yrs, I posted the link awhile back.

Do you mean RN, there, obmama? Interesting post, btw...thanks.

jstwondering
07-29-2011, 02:46 PM
I have a feeling that IF he had planned to propose (and maybe announce it at a party) that he might have made DS aware beforehand. Especially since they did have a child together that would be impacted by a marriage. Makes me wonder if DS knew that RN had been watching Max during the day all by herself and approved...or if she thought he was with his father instead...

I know I might not feel real comfortable if my son went to spend time with his dad...but the dad left him instead with his girlfriend. Especially if there was some tension there...and then a tragedy happens...on the girlfriend's watch...

Yep can't wait to see if JS or DS left the hospital that night....

I almost fell off my chair. I know what you are saying makes perfect sense, but let me tell you about my wonderful ex. I still don't know if he is married or not, and neither do any of his 3 children. People we know say that they attended his wedding, but he claims he is not married. When the kids go to visit, they sometimes see girlfriend wearing a big diamond ring, and sometimes they do not. Regardless, though, none of his blood relatives were invited to the wedding, only her relatives! When you google the girlfriend, she sometimes goes by his last name, and sometimes she doesn't.

How's that for disfunctional???:floorlaugh:

Paladine
07-29-2011, 02:49 PM
I also find the need to remind myself of how fearful of Jonahs power Dina seemed in those statements. That might keep HER quiet, in times like this.

IME, alot of times, a man can be so emotionally, physically or sexually abusive that it makes the WOMAN look/behave crazy and unbalanced...and the man comes out of it smelling like roses...'crazy ex-wife'.

arielilane
07-29-2011, 02:49 PM
Good afternoon, all. I saw this on You Tube.

&#x202a;Mystery after woman&#39;s body found hanging at CEO&#39;s Coronado mansion&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube

defense101
07-29-2011, 02:51 PM
Going back over old articles...

Nalepa was hung from a three-foot railing by a rope, Curran said, with her hands tied behind her back. She had bindings on each leg, but they were not tied together.

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/woman-who-died-at-spreckels-mansion-found-hanging-nude-from-balcony

The above is dated July 14; the day after RN was found.

BBM Something I missed or overlooked. :waitasec:

Bindings on each leg - not tied together - why would she have bindings on her legs? Was she tied to a chair/bed beforehand????

hands tied behind back - with the photos previously posted - would it seem then that the orange, construction extension cord was only around her hands??? Could be the reason there is so much of it seen in the pictures? Here is the new conference at about 1:25 he say both hands and feet were bound, he then says at about 6:20 he says in response to a question her hands and feet were bound but not together as you said hogtied. He doesn't say bindings on each leg or that they weren't tied together imo as well discussed again at about 10:10

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=6051226&redirected=true

scorekeeper
07-29-2011, 02:52 PM
Hey Ohio, born and raised there! AZ will file.

Q: If my wife believes she made a mistake when she called the police, can she have the domestic violence charges against me dropped?

A: No. The prosecutor, not the victim, makes the charging decision. It is common for a domestic violence victim to attempt to recant the statement he or she made to police. However, because the victim may be pressured to change his or her story and because domestic violence frequently recurs, the prosecutor generally will file the charges if there is sufficient evidence of domestic abuse - even if the victim changes his or her story.

http://www.azdomesticviolencelawyer.com/CM/FSDP/PracticeCenter/Criminal-Law/Domestic-Violence.asp?focus=faq

Thanks so much, Dr. Know.

How many times do the police have to respond to a call? 1, 3, 5.......I would hope that would happen on call 1 (for my sake - if I felt I needed to call the police for protection or assistance because my spouse or anyone had become physical with me).

According to police reports released by Paradise Valley Police Department both Jonah and Dina leveled claims against one another when they were divorcing in 2008 and 2009 while they shared a home in Pheonix, Arizona

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/07/jonah-shacknai-dina-shacknai-domestic-fights-parents-max-shacknai

BBM But I guess because they both "leveled claims"...no charges filed.

Wendy101
07-29-2011, 02:55 PM
I've been trying to come up with a theory that involved a motive for JS. I personally can't see him being involved, but, see that some on this board think he is.. so here is a motive...

Get Rid of Dina forever.

What would he have to do to get rid of Dina ? Kill her or have a hit put on her.. NO.. WHY?... given their nasty divorce which involed abuse from both of them - if DS was to die suspicously, JS would have been the FIRST one they look at..

So what would he have to do? Answer. Get of Maxie.

Somehow????? he gets rid of Maxie BUT in the process Rebecca saw what happened and had to be silenced.

I do not think that JS laid a finger on his son, at any time in his life...but.. I don;t know the guy or what he is capable of... also, I think that JS was out of town when this all happend to Max.

I am sorry, but, I can't see JS really being involved at all.. and if he was WHY??

I personally think that Maxies fall was accident and Rebeccas death was at the hands if an enraged Dina.

CuriousAmazon
07-29-2011, 02:56 PM
Maybe June 30, 2011 is the date her name change was final. Napeka is her married name, most of the local media refers to her by Zahau, her maiden name.

It does specifically say 30 June for change of address (it appears one of their mail was returned a couple of weeks prior). May 2011 is listed as the date the name change was granted. It lists February as the date for the final divorce decree. Not sure if my posting the link is allowed, but its easy enough to find.

Paladine
07-29-2011, 03:02 PM
yeah...saw that video, well done and like the graphics....but it shows Rebeccas feet tied together....we have reports they were not.

jstwondering
07-29-2011, 03:08 PM
I also find the need to remind myself of how fearful of Jonahs power Dina seemed in those statements. That might keep HER quiet, in times like this.

IME, alot of times, a man can be so emotionally, physically or sexually abusive that it makes the WOMAN look/behave crazy and unbalanced...and the man comes out of it smelling like roses...'crazy ex-wife'.

BBM - truer words were never spoken

lauriej
07-29-2011, 03:09 PM
Going back over old articles...

Nalepa was hung from a three-foot railing by a rope, Curran said, with her hands tied behind her back. She had bindings on each leg, but they were not tied together.

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/woman-who-died-at-spreckels-mansion-found-hanging-nude-from-balcony

The above is dated July 14; the day after RN was found.

BBM Something I missed or overlooked. :waitasec:

Bindings on each leg - not tied together - why would she have bindings on her legs? Was she tied to a chair/bed beforehand????

hands tied behind back - with the photos previously posted - would it seem then that the orange, construction extension cord was only around her hands??? Could be the reason there is so much of it seen in the pictures?

---at the 1st press release, tim curran answers a reporter's question as to how rebecca was bound...

..@ approx. 6:30

--Tim Curran----“the hands were bound behind the back and the feet were bound. They didn’t appear to be tied together, i think that you used the term “hog-tied”? that did not appear to be the case”.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?redirected=true
--San Diego Sheriff's Department Press Conference- 21:57

..that appears to me to mean that the hands were bound together behind her back, her ankles were bound together-----but the bound hands and bound feet---------were not tied to each other.

ETA-------just noticed that "defense101"was already on this ! apologies for the duplicate info!

Paladine
07-29-2011, 03:11 PM
Divorces finalized, name changed, moving in, quitting job...and then an address change on June 30th, 2011? Getting ready for marriage, perhaps? WHAT was that party for?

How long was it after the relationship w/KJ ended that Jonah marrried Dina, I wonder...

Snap, crackle, pop...and he has a new Wife! ;)

MizStery
07-29-2011, 03:13 PM
Good Slueting! I think you found the right Dupont murder. I remember seeing this so long ago in either a made-for-tv movie, or 48 hours... something, that it is foggy now, so I google'd it and found this very long, more salacious article from Vanity Fair.
http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/archive/1999/09/dunne199909

The gist of the story is old DuPont Heiress doesn't like sleezy, druggy, trashy woman that loser son is dating. Gets current husband (long line of husbands...) to hire people to kill her in Vegas. Lots of low-life characters & kinky sex implied.

Anyway, this is neither here nor there, and if you look at my link way up thread from last night, this Michael Jackson dermatologist that started this whole off topic discussion, is very questionable himself, and has no qualms about inserting himself into the headlines when he can. IMO

Just Wow,what a story. I was on page two when I realized I had forgotten to keep breathing. Talk about a story that makes you want to take a shower...yikes. Thanks for the link. OK,after taking a breather..I am going to finish the story.

In da Middle
07-29-2011, 03:13 PM
IMO, he is much better looking in pic 1. NOT in the other 2. Definitely had some injectables in his face. He almost does not look like the same person. Note to self: stay away from that stuff. :)


I agree! He is like a walking testimonial as to why NOT to use his product!
Why do people seem to think absolutely no forehead wrinkles look natural? Especially when the subject is obviously over 40!

peace9274
07-29-2011, 03:14 PM
I also find the need to remind myself of how fearful of Jonahs power Dina seemed in those statements. That might keep HER quiet, in times like this.

IME, alot of times, a man can be so emotionally, physically or sexually abusive that it makes the WOMAN look/behave crazy and unbalanced...and the man comes out of it smelling like roses...'crazy ex-wife'.

In unofficial psych terms, it's called "Gas Lighting".

Taken from the 1944 George Cukor film "Gas light" ...
with Charles Boyer & Ingrid Bergman.

(Husband tries to drive wife crazy, certified & institutionalized
so he can be alone to search for money & jewels in the house
that wife's aunt left there.)

jjenny
07-29-2011, 03:19 PM
Good afternoon, all. I saw this on You Tube.

&#x202a;Mystery after woman's body found hanging at CEO's Coronado mansion&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMGtTGCY6sI&feature=player_embedded)
Well it's somebody's narration of the event, but appears to have some inaccuracies.
She couldn't even be laid on her back because in the photos her hands are still bound behind her back. We also don't know as to whether the child fell on the stairs, or in a different way. If he was reaching for a ball (as rumored) then he could have fallen into the lobby and not on the stairs.

peace9274
07-29-2011, 03:21 PM
I've been trying to come up with a theory that involved a motive for JS. I personally can't see him being involved, but, see that some on this board think he is.. so here is a motive...

Get Rid of Dina forever.

What would he have to do to get rid of Dina ? Kill her or have a hit put on her.. NO.. WHY?... given their nasty divorce which involed abuse from both of them - if DS was to die suspicously, JS would have been the FIRST one they look at..

So what would he have to do? Answer. Get of Maxie.

Somehow????? he gets rid of Maxie BUT in the process Rebecca saw what happened and had to be silenced.

I do not think that JS laid a finger on his son, at any time in his life...but.. I don;t know the guy or what he is capable of... also, I think that JS was out of town when this all happend to Max.

I am sorry, but, I can't see JS really being involved at all.. and if he was WHY??

I personally think that Maxies fall was accident and Rebeccas death was at the hands if an enraged Dina.


BBM
Re the sentence in bold above:
It has been said many times here & in news links that JS got to the hospital within 5 minutes
after receiving the call that his son had been hurt. Makes me think he was maybe on the golf
course or at the gym when the incident occured..

jstwondering
07-29-2011, 03:22 PM
Just Wow,what a story. I was on page two when I realized I had forgotten to keep breathing. Talk about a story that makes you want to take a shower...yikes. Thanks for the link. OK,after taking a breather..I am going to finish the story.

Ya, isn't it? Oh, and I just noticed that it was written by the late, great, Dominick Dunn!

Sorry for going off topic.

defense101
07-29-2011, 03:24 PM
Divorces finalized, name changed, moving in, quitting job...and then an address change on June 30th, 2011? Getting ready for marriage, perhaps? WHAT was that party for?

How long was it after the relationship w/KJ ended that Jonah marrried Dina, I wonder...

Snap, crackle, pop...and he has a new Wife! ;) We follow the weather throughout the year, if we go to our home in AZ we do a change of address, if we go to FL we do a change of address, its pretty standard imo that if you go to your summer house for a couple of months that's what you do.

arielilane
07-29-2011, 03:32 PM
I agree! He is like a walking testimonial as to why NOT to use his product!
Why do people seem to think absolutely no forehead wrinkles look natural? Especially when the subject is obviously over 40!
Yes, I see that as well. A lot of the lines around his forehead, eyes and mouth are no longer there. He has that puffy tight unnatural paid for plastic look.http://www.wuerziworld.de/Smilies/girl/gi29.gif

Paladine
07-29-2011, 03:34 PM
Here is the new conference at about 1:25 he say both hands and feet were bound, he then says at about 6:20 he says in response to a question her hands and feet were bound but not together as you said hogtied. He doesn't say bindings on each leg or that they weren't tied together imo as well discussed again at about 10:10

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=6051226&redirected=true

From that video: balcony was 10-15 feet off ground, was "suspended by a rope", won't comment on what was used to 'bind' her (electrical cord?), 911 caller said "woman appeared to be dead", 911 responders said woman was deceased upon arrival, won't comment on what was found indoors, won't comment on whose room it was....

There's more I found interesting but my notes disappeared...ugh. Worth a re-listen, imo.

arielilane
07-29-2011, 03:34 PM
Well it's somebody's narration of the event, but appears to have some inaccuracies.
She couldn't even be laid on her back because in the photos her hands are still bound behind her back. We also don't know as to whether the child fell on the stairs, or in a different way. If he was reaching for a ball (as rumored) then he could have fallen into the lobby and not on the stairs.
I agree it's someone's narration of the event (You Tube). At this time, no one knows the facts.

CuriousAmazon
07-29-2011, 03:43 PM
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=73531182

SAN DIEGO UNION TRIBUNE
JULY 17, 2011
SUNDAY

I think the question was asked awhile back...
States that JS had his 3 children during the summer months at the Spreckels mansion.

Wording is so important, but I noticed with the media because it's the same story, they try to write it so it doesn't resemble the same exact info found in other articles. Thesaurus in hand...

pferrin
07-29-2011, 03:43 PM
According to police dispatch JS did get to hospital before 2 females at his house..RN and GS(IMO).

My EX tried the gas light carp..the thing he didnt count on ..I was already crazy. Nearly drove him Mad..Mad I tell you.

I would think that with DS psychology experience and knowledge..she would know a bit about handling him.

I can see how she could get suckered into the drama.

He was much more handsome before he started using his own product. I am looking forward to more info from the police.

Jade
07-29-2011, 03:46 PM
Ya, isn't it? Oh, and I just noticed that it was written by the late, great, Dominick Dunn!

Sorry for going off topic.

Dominick would have been on top of this case and we would have had a Vanity Fair article with all the gossip!

Paladine
07-29-2011, 03:56 PM
Dominick would have been on top of this case and we would have had a Vanity Fair article with all the gossip!

IF only....:(

Paladine
07-29-2011, 04:03 PM
From that video: balcony was 10-15 feet off ground, was "suspended by a rope", won't comment on what was used to 'bind' her (electrical cord?), 911 caller said "woman appeared to be dead", 911 responders said woman was deceased upon arrival, won't comment on what was found indoors, won't comment on whose room it was....

There's more I found interesting but my notes disappeared...ugh. Worth a re-listen, imo.

Sorry for quoting myself, again...really, I'm not a narrcissist...see? I can't even spell it! ;)

BUT....

You know the video where they use that light to show the "rope"...? That lights UP the rope? I've seen it posted, here...

Well, a couple of days ago, when I watched it, when I froze it at the lit up part (sorta like Blacklight, maybe?) I could SEE ORANGE on her arm area and something more BROWNISH leading away...I KNOW, it all looks orange...but when viewed under that light, the REALLY orange part stood out by her arm and the other part looked BROWNER...does anyone have that video, or know the one I'm speaking of? It was a news video...have a look, tell me what you see. If we can get the link...

CuriousAmazon
07-29-2011, 04:06 PM
http://www.ecoronado.com/profiles/blogs/spreckels-mansion-victim

Makes me think LE may have (may still?) suspected foul play from the beginning.

Paladine
07-29-2011, 04:27 PM
If she found "rope" to hang herself (per presser link up thread (suspended by "rope"), surely, she could have bound her hands and feet with something other than ELECTRICAL CORD? Did the woman not have a scarf or two? Maybe a belt, a cord from a robe? Makes no sense, to me.

defense101
07-29-2011, 04:39 PM
If she found "rope" to hang herself (per presser link up thread (suspended by "rope"), surely, she could have bound her hands and feet with something other than ELECTRICAL CORD? Did the woman not have a scarf or two? Maybe a belt, a cord from a robe? Makes no sense, to me. That's what I asked earlier, if suicide (which I think not) what thought process would she have had to say oh I'll get the extension cord from the garage to tie myself up as opposed to using what is readily available upstairs. As well, to me it seems like whoever did this brought both of these items with them from the garage when coming into the house which would certainly show premeditation. imo

jstwondering
07-29-2011, 04:44 PM
Dominick would have been on top of this case and we would have had a Vanity Fair article with all the gossip!

I miss him!

Hunnydolll
07-29-2011, 04:45 PM
According to police dispatch JS did get to hospital before 2 females at his house..RN and GS(IMO).

My EX tried the gas light carp..the thing he didnt count on ..I was already crazy. Nearly drove him Mad..Mad I tell you.

I would think that with DS psychology experience and knowledge..she would know a bit about handling him.

I can see how she could get suckered into the drama.

He was much more handsome before he started using his own product. I am looking forward to more info from the police.

Hi Pferrin,

I meant to ask you this yesterday, but my boss had the nerve of asking me to do work!! :loser:

On the police dispatch, did they actually say GS's name? or just said "daughter" or "13 yr old girl"?

Thank you!

Paladine
07-29-2011, 04:50 PM
That's what I asked earlier, if suicide (which I think not) what thought process would she have had to say oh I'll get the extension cord from the garage to tie myself up as opposed to using what is readily available upstairs. As well, to me it seems like whoever did this brought both of these items with them from the garage when coming into the house which would certainly show premeditation. imo

Caution>>> Opinion ;)

Yeah...I think it started through the garage, too...orange electrical cord. Maybe snuck in, surprised her while sleeping, beat her up, in an attempt to exhaust rage (violent), turned up the tunes and hung her from the balcony...I hate to think she died a slow hanging death...I somehow prefer it turn out to be a head injury, or something else...something more merciful, but is murder ever merciful?

These are REAL people...sometimes that fact just stabs me in the gut.

I'm stepping away for a little bit...bbs

peace9274
07-29-2011, 04:55 PM
Dominick would have been on top of this case and we would have had a Vanity Fair article with all the gossip!

And it would've been one of his true crime stories on TV, narrated in his awesome voice!
(I miss you, Dominic!! RIP)

jstwondering
07-29-2011, 04:57 PM
If she found "rope" to hang herself (per presser link up thread (suspended by "rope"), surely, she could have bound her hands and feet with something other than ELECTRICAL CORD? Did the woman not have a scarf or two? Maybe a belt, a cord from a robe? Makes no sense, to me.

I totally agree, Paladine, and that is why (in addition to the nudity) that it just can't be suicide IMO.

Interestingly enough, in that Vanity Fair article mentioned upthread, the killers bound the victim with jumper cables and the TV cable, because that is what was they had in the car and hotel room, in order to get her small enough to put in the air conditioner duct.

I think desperate murderers will use anything that is handy. Now the question would become, why/where would electrical cord that is thick and orange be found. The only time I use those kind of cords is outside to hang the christmas lights, or hanging in my garage in case of emergency (don't ask what kind of emergency... my dad just always made me have one in my garage...) My point being that the electrical cord could be found outside pretty easily or in the garage. If you asked me to find a rope for you, however, I promise you that I could not find one.

But for suicide, you wouldn't even have to go to the trouble of getting the cord from the garage, or outside. As you mentioned, you could just go into your closet and get a belt or tie.

peace9274
07-29-2011, 05:07 PM
Caution>>> Opinion ;)

Yeah...I think it started through the garage, too...orange electrical cord. Maybe snuck in, surprised her while sleeping, beat her up, in an attempt to exhaust rage (violent), turned up the tunes and hung her from the balcony...I hate to think she died a slow hanging death...I somehow prefer it turn out to be a head injury, or something else...something more merciful, but is murder ever merciful?

These are REAL people...sometimes that fact just stabs me in the gut.

I'm stepping away for a little bit...bbs

BBM

I have stated a few times that I believe she was dead before she was hanged. I think her ankles were tied to a chair... with wrists tied behind her, prior to her being dead. Her body, on the ground after the rope/noose was cut, looks to be in a somewhat sitting position, which may be how she was when rigor set in.

IzzyBlanche
07-29-2011, 05:16 PM
While it's not confirmed, I think most interpret "soiled bedding" as a politically correct description of "bed wetting". In fact, I googled it and got the same result.

If he was sick, I'd think it would be relevant enough to mention. I don't find it offensive - every kid has accidents, even some of us adults! And, it is very believable that JS & DS argued over it. I was potty trained at 9 months, because my "high expectations" father demanded it. My mother hid my "accidents" from him.

Whatever was meant, the original statement was that the argument was over the bedding, not Max's bedwetting.

Which then evolved into it being taken for granted, and discussed in some depth, that JS and DS were arguing over Max's bedwetting.

When there is no proof of that.

ETA: Heck, they could have been arguing over how often Max's sheets were changed.

oceanblueeyes
07-29-2011, 05:17 PM
http://www.ecoronado.com/profiles/blogs/spreckels-mansion-victim

Makes me think LE may have (may still?) suspected foul play from the beginning.

Its always the homicide detective division that investigates death investigations which is what this is.

So I don't think at that time they thought it was a homicide but an investigation done by their division to determine if it was a suicide or a homicide.


IMO

oceanblueeyes
07-29-2011, 05:24 PM
BBM

I have stated a few times that I believe she was dead before she was hanged. I think her ankles were tied to a chair... with wrists tied behind her, prior to her being dead. Her body, on the ground after the rope/noose was cut, looks to be in a somewhat sitting position, which may be how she was when rigor set in.

If all that was known and seen at the scene it certainly could be easily recognized by law enforcement detectives then I don't think they would have ever come out and say they were investigating the death.

She would be brought into the MEs office the way she was found and he could have determined rather quickly that it was a homicide and not a suicide. The ME also speaks with LE and has photos taken of the scene and he/she also came to the scene himself/herself when Rebecca was lying there.

So I think they still dont know if this was a suicide or a homicide and are waiting on forensic results and toxicology testing.

IMO

pferrin
07-29-2011, 05:29 PM
Hi Pferrin,

I meant to ask you this yesterday, but my boss had the nerve of asking me to do work!! :loser:

On the police dispatch, did they actually say GS's name? or just said "daughter" or "13 yr old girl"?

Thank you!

So sorry to hear of your boss "problems"..the nerve they want you to WORK.
Dispatch said caller was hysterical..gave wrong addy at first..said 6 year old girl had fallen down stairs. Also told them CPR was being done on child..child was having trouble breathing.
Then after police and fire arrived..police to dispatch..girlfriend of father of injured child on phone with father he will meet us at hospital. Police gives starting mileage for carrying the 2 females to hospital to meet with childs father.

Never did they say GS. With her giving 1040 as street addy rather than 1043.IMO... GS was the female on 911 call. I was not listening for juvie police code .
DS could not be found ..I stopped litstening at 12:45-1:00 in pm...They had tried many times to contact DS.

peace9274
07-29-2011, 05:34 PM
If all that was known and seen at the scene it certainly could be easily recognized by law enforcement detectives then I don't think they would have ever come out and say they were investigating the death.

She would be brought into the MEs office the way she was found and he could have determined rather quickly that it was a homicide and not a suicide. The ME also speaks with LE and has photos taken of the scene and he/she also came to the scene himself/herself.

So I think they still dont know if this was a suicide or a homicide and are waiting on forensic results and toxicology testing.

IMO

BBM

And so for my other theory:
She DID commit suicide.
She tied her own wrists & ankles to keep from changing her mind at last seconds.
Rope from her neck to balcony (or beyond) stretched & lowered her to an almost
kneeling position (on ground or table?), which is when & where the rigor set in.

IzzyBlanche
07-29-2011, 05:37 PM
*The party planned for Tuesday night.

Although, I still don't get why she was discussing a joint credit card with NN, the week before her death.



Where has it been confirmed that a party was planned for Tuesday night?

And also where did you get the information about the joint credit card? I did a google news search for both of Rebecca's names and the term "credit card" and came up completely empty.

Thank you.

IzzyBlanche
07-29-2011, 05:51 PM
"Curran also said there was no party at the residence Tuesday night, a rumor that quickly spread through the neighborhood Wednesday as investigators roamed the cordoned-off Spreckels property."

BBM

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/faced-with-bizarre-case-detectives-try-to-sort-out-spreckels-death

Hunnydolll
07-29-2011, 05:57 PM
So sorry to hear of your boss "problems"..the nerve they want you to WORK.
Dispatch said caller was hysterical..gave wrong addy at first..said 6 year old girl had fallen down stairs. Also told them CPR was being done on child..child was having trouble breathing.
Then after police and fire arrived..police to dispatch..girlfriend of father of injured child on phone with father he will meet us at hospital. Police gives starting mileage for carrying the 2 females to hospital to meet with childs father.

Never did they say GS. With her giving 1040 as street addy rather than 1043.IMO... GS was the female on 911 call. I was not listening for juvie police code .
DS could not be found ..I stopped litstening at 12:45-1:00 in pm...They had tried many times to contact DS.

Thank you! You gave a better account than the media could give us in 2 weeks!! Great idea to listen to the scanner!! :)

oceanblueeyes
07-29-2011, 05:58 PM
BBM

And so for my other theory:
She DID commit suicide.
She tied her own wrists & ankles to keep from changing her mind at last seconds.
Rope from her neck to balcony (or beyond) stretched & lowered her to an almost
kneeling position (on ground or table?), which is when & where the rigor set in.

Sounds plausible, peace. It really could go either way.

I have wondered if it wasnt rigor that is seen but if it snapped her neck and then her lower extremities hit the concrete and her leg may have broken or fractured when slamming into it hard.

IMO

jjenny
07-29-2011, 06:09 PM
If all that was known and seen at the scene it certainly could be easily recognized by law enforcement detectives then I don't think they would have ever come out and say they were investigating the death.

She would be brought into the MEs office the way she was found and he could have determined rather quickly that it was a homicide and not a suicide. The ME also speaks with LE and has photos taken of the scene and he/she also came to the scene himself/herself when Rebecca was lying there.

So I think they still dont know if this was a suicide or a homicide and are waiting on forensic results and toxicology testing.

IMO

How exactly would it be determined if it was homicide or suicide? No, seriously, what's the difference in terms of forensics? Of course we know longer hang people but hanging could be a method to kill someone. So if somebody tied a rope around her neck and made her jump, or if she tied a rope around her neck and jumped, how would anyone know the difference?

obmama
07-29-2011, 06:10 PM
Where has it been confirmed that a party was planned for Tuesday night?

And also where did you get the information about the joint credit card? I did a google news search for both of Rebecca's names and the term "credit card" and came up completely empty.

Thank you.
http://coronado.patch.com/articles/trainer-recalls-spreckels-victims-noticeable-limp

"He said he rarely had long conversations with Zahau, but did so last Saturday, when the woman excitedly discussed a party she was planning for Tuesday, which turned out to be the day before she died.

“She was really stoked about it,” he said.

But two days after Zahau's talk with Holman, Shacknai's 6-year-old son fell down a staircase in the mansion and suffered severe injuries. A kennel owner who visited with Zahau Tuesday said she was deeply shaken by the incident.

Investigators have said they do not believe the party took place."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++

Re: Credit Card

This was a video taped interview with Neil Napeka. He said he just spoke to Rebecca the previous week about a joint credit card. He also said she'd changed, she wanted a life of luxury.

It would have been Thursday or Friday after her death, by one of the local news stations. If I find it, I'll post a link.

IzzyBlanche
07-29-2011, 06:16 PM
http://coronado.patch.com/articles/trainer-recalls-spreckels-victims-noticeable-limp

"He said he rarely had long conversations with Zahau, but did so last Saturday, when the woman excitedly discussed a party she was planning for Tuesday, which turned out to be the day before she died.

“She was really stoked about it,” he said.

But two days after Zahau's talk with Holman, Shacknai's 6-year-old son fell down a staircase in the mansion and suffered severe injuries. A kennel owner who visited with Zahau Tuesday said she was deeply shaken by the incident.

Investigators have said they do not believe the party took place."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++

Re: Credit Card

This was a video taped interview with Neil Napeka. He said he just spoke to Rebecca the previous week about a joint credit card. He also said she'd changed, she wanted a life of luxury.

It would have been Thursday or Friday after her death, by one of the local news stations. If I find it, I'll post a link.


Thank you. I doubt if it was an engagement party then, if Rebecca herself was planning it and as far as is known JS hadn't proposed.

obmama
07-29-2011, 06:25 PM
RBBM

I, too, heard the sister reported as saying the relationship was 2-3 yrs, I posted the link awhile back.

Do you mean RN, there, obmama? Interesting post, btw...thanks.

oops, yes it should be RN. I'll edit it. Thanks.

sdcali
07-29-2011, 06:39 PM
I totally agree, Paladine, and that is why (in addition to the nudity) that it just can't be suicide IMO.

Interestingly enough, in that Vanity Fair article mentioned upthread, the killers bound the victim with jumper cables and the TV cable, because that is what was they had in the car and hotel room, in order to get her small enough to put in the air conditioner duct.

I think desperate murderers will use anything that is handy. Now the question would become, why/where would electrical cord that is thick and orange be found. The only time I use those kind of cords is outside to hang the christmas lights, or hanging in my garage in case of emergency (don't ask what kind of emergency... my dad just always made me have one in my garage...) My point being that the electrical cord could be found outside pretty easily or in the garage. If you asked me to find a rope for you, however, I promise you that I could not find one.

But for suicide, you wouldn't even have to go to the trouble of getting the cord from the garage, or outside. As you mentioned, you could just go into your closet and get a belt or tie.

I recall someone posting that a contractor was working on the house? Or am I mistaken?

Those orange extension cords are always laying around during remodels...(from personal experience with home remodels)

oceanblueeyes
07-29-2011, 07:07 PM
How exactly would it be determined if it was homicide or suicide? No, seriously, what's the difference in terms of forensics? Of course we know longer hang people but hanging could be a method to kill someone. So if somebody tied a rope around her neck and made her jump, or if she tied a rope around her neck and jumped, how would anyone know the difference?

There would be difference jjenny.

If they made her jump I would think there would be signs off a struggle. Rebecca just wouldn't say 'ok Ill jump" she would fight to live. That is just a normal instinct when self preservation kicks in and it has been said that she was in great physical shape. So imo they would find defensive wounds on her hands and arms as she wrestled with the person trying to tie her up and would see signs of a struggle in and near the balcony area.

She would not just stand there doing nothing while the person but a noose around her neck or bound her wrists and feet up.

I am sure LE has had to figure out before if a death was a suicide or a homicide and they look for certain factors that point in one direction or the other.

The knots also can be a key piece of evidence. They most likely will call in a knot expert to get their opinion whether she made the knots herself or they believe the particular knot was used by another with a specific background and trade.

IMO

obmama
07-29-2011, 07:12 PM
Thank you. I doubt if it was an engagement party then, if Rebecca herself was planning it and as far as is known JS hadn't proposed.

The "engagement" party was pure speculation, if the rumor proved correct, that he planned to propose. It was one of several clues, that alone might be meaningless, but together supported the proposal rumor.

I looked at it as a "celebration", either a joint announcement or public performance. I think they planned it together, and that explains her excitement over the party. He's all about appearances, she's all about family and perfection. I could see it being a videotaped "on me knee" proposal, with "oohs and aahs" over the big rock he put on her finger.

I have a vivid imagination!

There's no indication of the party's magnitude . . . number of guests, time of day, refreshments, etc., but a catered event would have been a last minute cancellation, with a free promo opportunity for media exposure. We've heard nothing of the kind. But JS may have paid for an event that didn't happen in exchange for silence.

i.b.nora
07-29-2011, 07:32 PM
We are nowhere closer to the truth than we were the day her body was found. Too many assumptions being made to suit me. All fantasy stuff. Maybe the local press could dig a little bit more.

All rumors, all speculation. If we didn't have the pictures of the body in the courtyard, this would have disappeared entirely by now.

pferrin
07-29-2011, 07:37 PM
I am an female electrician by trade..have been for many years. I have worked with the orange electrical cords for most of my adult life. They come in all sizes. Even with all my experience with extension cords..(and I know how to tie those suckers) never never ever would I use one to commit suicide. Nope...I could see her using belts..belts from robes..silk scarves..ribboons..sheets..but not an extension cord.

If I ..who has prolly more experience with extension cords than about any human in coronado beach california..would not use it to hang myself..I know she didn't.

IzzyBlanche
07-29-2011, 07:43 PM
The "engagement" party was pure speculation, if the rumor proved correct, that he planned to propose. It was one of several clues, that alone might be meaningless, but together supported the proposal rumor.

I looked at it as a "celebration", either a joint announcement or public performance. I think they planned it together, and that explains her excitement over the party. He's all about appearances, she's all about family and perfection. I could see it being a videotaped "on me knee" proposal, with "oohs and aahs" over the big rock he put on her finger.

I have a vivid imagination!

There's no indication of the party's magnitude . . . number of guests, time of day, refreshments, etc., but a catered event would have been a last minute cancellation, with a free promo opportunity for media exposure. We've heard nothing of the kind. But JS may have paid for an event that didn't happen in exchange for silence.

I hear you; I have a vivid imagination myself!

Obviously we have no way of knowing for sure, but I can't imagine anyone scheduling a big blowout like that, for that purpose, on a Tuesday night.

MsFacetious
07-29-2011, 07:44 PM
How exactly would it be determined if it was homicide or suicide? No, seriously, what's the difference in terms of forensics? Of course we know longer hang people but hanging could be a method to kill someone. So if somebody tied a rope around her neck and made her jump, or if she tied a rope around her neck and jumped, how would anyone know the difference?

How would you get someone, perfectly conscious and alive... bound, with a noose around their neck and over a balcony without a major fight?

Without drugs, taser, beating or otherwise injuring, restraining or incapacitating the person... there is no way.

Strangling the person and using a hanging to cover it up wouldn't work either.
When you strangle someone you are pulling back, not up like a hanging.

Even if you tried to replicate a hanging while you were strangling the person, it would be really hard to do that.
You would have to put as much force on the neck as her body would going over the balcony.
You would have to make sure that your ligature went in the same area as the rope when you hung her later.
You would have to use the exact same type of ligature.

Even if she was hog tied (she wasn't that we know of) she still would have been moving and fighting and difficult to get over the balcony.

I think she had to be unconscious if she was put over that balcony by someone else. If not already dead... which I believe will be proven if true.

pferrin
07-29-2011, 07:48 PM
I have thought since the beginning..a paralytic drug would have been used or lordy should I say this word..chloroform. next thing ya know I will be saying nanny or zanny.

StJohn
07-29-2011, 07:58 PM
Just found this thread today, so I apologize in advance if someone else has already posted this. I am attaching a link to a video tribute from the funeral home in St Joseph, MO, where Rebecca Zahau was buried (it takes a long time to load, so be patient).

This tribute has lots of photos of Rebecca with family, friends, at different stages in life, but NOT ONE SINGLE PICTURE of her with Jonah Shacknai. One of her family members most likely compiled the tribute photos, since there are many from her childhood. Why is there not one picture of her with JS, a man she supposedly loved deeply? And it has been stated that RZ referred to Max Shacknai as her son, yet not one picture of her with him in this tribute? I have often heard that what a person doesn't say can be more important than what they say. Well, in the case of a photo memorial tribute, I would have to say that the PHOTOS that are left out may be important as well...

http://www.meierhoffer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/zahau_rebecca.swf

defense101
07-29-2011, 07:58 PM
I am an female electrician by trade..have been for many years. I have worked with the orange electrical cords for most of my adult life. They come in all sizes. Even with all my experience with extension cords..(and I know how to tie those suckers) never never ever would I use one to commit suicide. Nope...I could see her using belts..belts from robes..silk scarves..ribboons..sheets..but not an extension cord.

If I ..who has prolly more experience with extension cords than about any human in coronado beach california..would not use it to hang myself..I know she didn't.I'm thinking about the knots, I don't think when they said that they were looking at the knots has so much to do with AS the tugboat worker, but more so that they were knots that she could not have made herself if tying her own hands behind her back, know what I mean? Not that they were a special type of knot just one that someone tying themsleves up couldn't have made:waitasec:

obmama
07-29-2011, 07:59 PM
http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00206/text_ta_death_manner.htm

A body discovered hanging or suspended in some way, usually contains telltale signs of a death due to the lack of oxygen. These include such signs as blue skin colour, burst blood vessels in the eyes and inflated lungs. Forensic pathologists examine the rope marks on the neck to determine if they contain evidently inflamed edges, a sign that the victim was alive before being hanged. However, when no inflammation marks are present, it suggests that the victim was dead before being hanged and the hanging was a form of cover up. The rope marks on the victim's neck are examined to check that they match the rope found at the scene of crime. The slightest difference of the rope impression from the actual rope itself, would undoubtedly imply that the rope was not the murder tool and where the victim did die of a lack of oxygen and does have evident bruises on the neck, the murder weapon is sought using the markings as a guide. As a general rule, all rope markings on the neck should be in the shape of an upside down V, where the knot would cause a bruise on the back of the neck, creating the point of the V.

Other facts pointing to murder may also be revealed when an examination of the neck is carried out. Strangulation usually breaks the hyoid bone located in the neck, but the bone is very rarely broken during hanging. The breakage of the hyoid would suggest manual strangulation, whereby the victim was strangled using the hands, or via means of another implement (e.g. cord, belt etc). When strangulation is the case, death may be caused due to a lack of air, but more likely, as a result of the deliberate compression of the neck, causing a vegal inhabitation, the situation where the stimulation of the neck's vagus nerve causes the heart to stop. In cases where the hyoid bone is not broken, but bruising is evident around the nose and mouth, a death caused by smothering is indicated, thereby dying due to a lack of oxygen.

MizStery
07-29-2011, 08:01 PM
This a theory I have yet seem posted to this forum. But,when your dealing with 4 separate threads on this case it is easy to miss something. :confused:

This is a link to the webpage
http://celebgalz.com/jonah-shacknai-son-max-shacknai-girlfriend-rebecca-zahau-dead/
-snip-
It sounds like someone is a possible person of interest in Zahau’s death. What would be the motive? It could be anger and revenge after Max fell down from the staircase. Zahau’s relative, a 13 year old girl, was in the house at the time of Max’s fall. Was Rebecca pre-occupied with one child and neglected the other child? Did that have anything to do with Zahau’s death? Did Jonah release the statement about wanting to propose to Zahau as a cover up?

pferrin
07-29-2011, 08:07 PM
I'm thinking about the knots, I don't think when they said that they were looking at the knots has so much to do with AS the tugboat worker, but more so that they were knots that she could not have made herself if tying her own hands behind her back, know what I mean? Not that they were a special type of knot just one that someone tying themsleves up couldn't have made:waitasec:

Yep the knots..also it is difficult to tie ones hands and feet tightly with extension cord..I could tie someone else tightly but not myself..impossible.

Not with orange extension cords.

pferrin
07-29-2011, 08:18 PM
This a theory I have yet seem posted to this forum. But,when your dealing with 4 separate threads on this case it is easy to miss something. :confused:

This is a link to the webpage
http://celebgalz.com/jonah-shacknai-son-max-shacknai-girlfriend-rebecca-zahau-dead/
-snip-
It sounds like someone is a possible person of interest in Zahau’s death. What would be the motive? It could be anger and revenge after Max fell down from the staircase. Zahau’s relative, a 13 year old girl, was in the house at the time of Max’s fall. Was Rebecca pre-occupied with one child and neglected the other child? Did that have anything to do with Zahau’s death? Did Jonah release the statement about wanting to propose to Zahau as a cover up?


I dont think it was RN's relative.. daughter..GS. I believe RN looked at GS as her daughter. going to read article.