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mentalsolstice
07-30-2011, 10:52 PM
Everyone is going by what AS said but never applying what and how he did it.

Cut her down.

Cut the rope from the balcony, let the body fall to the ground run down stairs, carry her to the grass so you can revive her? leaving here on her side?

Climb on a three legged table, hold a dead body, lift the tension off the rope and cut it? Climb down carry her to the grass.

When I look at the photo. I see her carried from the right to the grass area with the orange cord dragging behind. The table placed on the walkway.

As for the flinging cord. Very difficult to move dead weight. Have someone pretend to be dead and see how easy it is to move them more so spin 180 with enough force to have a 6 foot cord extend out like the photo.

MOO, I just don't understand the fixation on AS as the prime suspect at this point. Until more evidence is made public, myself and many others here are not ready to paint him (or in fact anyone else) as the villain.

Except for the fact he was staying in the guest house, there isn't anything tying him to a murder or suicide. NOTHING there. If and when LE comes up with evidence against him, then I'll start looking at him as a POI. Right now it is pure speculation, and he is merely a witness. I don't see a motive, and I don't see anything in his behavior that suggests he killed RN. All I see is a grasping at straws, while we're waiting for LE to come out with something official. MOO

While we're at it, let's speculate that George Anthony was involved, he had an affair with RN and he made an accident (erotic asphyxiation) look like a suicide or murder ...and oh, I'm getting so confused now. I need to step away from the computer!

pferrin
07-30-2011, 10:56 PM
It's really complicated, but it happens. Some people just can't handle rejection. There is a lot of dysfunctional behavior. I suspect it became worse when another woman came in the picture and became a part of the child's life.

Some folks get addicted to the drama of it..they refuse to let things calm down. Betty Broderick.

arielilane
07-30-2011, 10:58 PM
Whomever did this to Rebecca was angry and it was personal. It was someone that was comfortable in that home and must have spent some time there before she was killed. In addition, I can't figure why they would turn up the music to drown out any noise...unless she was shot.

MizStery
07-30-2011, 10:59 PM
It's really complicated, but it happens. Some people just can't handle rejection. There is a lot of dysfunctional behavior. I suspect it became worse when another woman came in the picture and became a part of the child's life.

And don't forget the prestigious Oscar de la Renta luncheon's. Dressing like a movie star and rubbing elbows with them too. Attending charity balls. Having your picture in magazine's. Having write ups in the society columns along with your picture and being linked to owning a company with muti-million dollar revenues. She liked being powerful.:twocents:

pferrin
07-30-2011, 10:59 PM
I know how ya feel Mentalsolstice..I am getting punchy..hehehe. The ICA case made us all a little more crazy.

oceanblueeyes
07-30-2011, 10:59 PM
MOO, I just don't understand the fixation on AS as the prime suspect at this point. Until more evidence is made public, myself and many others here are not ready to paint him (or in fact anyone else) as the villain.

Except for the fact he was staying in the guest house, there isn't anything tying him to a murder or suicide. NOTHING there. If and when LE comes up with evidence against him, then I'll start looking at him as a POI. Right now it is pure speculation, and he is merely a witness. I don't see a motive, and I don't see anything in his behavior that suggests he killed RN. All I see is a grasping at straws, while we're waiting for LE to come out with something official. MOO

While we're at it, let's speculate that George Anthony was involved, he had an affair with RN and he made an accident (erotic asphyxiation) look like a suicide or murder ...and oh, I'm getting so confused now. I need to step away from the computer!

BBM

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Surely they can link George into this case somehow. I hear just merely using his name can get a murderer off scott free!:crazy:

IMO

pferrin
07-30-2011, 11:00 PM
Whomever did this to Rebecca was angry and it was personal. It was someone that was comfortable in that home and must have spent some time there before she was killed. In addition, I can't figure why they would turn up the music to drown out any noise...unless she was shot.

In case she screamed???

arielilane
07-30-2011, 11:03 PM
In case she screamed??? True.

defense101
07-30-2011, 11:04 PM
MOO, I just don't understand the fixation on AS as the prime suspect at this point. Until more evidence is made public, myself and many others here are not ready to paint him (or in fact anyone else) as the villain.

Except for the fact he was staying in the guest house, there isn't anything tying him to a murder or suicide. NOTHING there. If and when LE comes up with evidence against him, then I'll start looking at him as a POI. Right now it is pure speculation, and he is merely a witness. I don't see a motive, and I don't see anything in his behavior that suggests he killed RN. All I see is a grasping at straws, while we're waiting for LE to come out with something official. MOO

While we're at it, let's speculate that George Anthony was involved, he had an affair with RN and he made an accident (erotic asphyxiation) look like a suicide or murder ...and oh, I'm getting so confused now. I need to step away from the computer! He was supposedly the only person in the house the night it happened its only natural he would be someone that would pique a persons interest as all the other "witnesses" in this case. imo

arielilane
07-30-2011, 11:04 PM
It's just that hasn't the police been called about noise in that neighborhood more than once? This probably has already been discussed.

oceanblueeyes
07-30-2011, 11:06 PM
I sure wish we would get some new info.:banghead:

We actually know very little and I have a feeling the results is going to take some time. What I can't figure out though is ....... why so long?

IMO

mentalsolstice
07-30-2011, 11:06 PM
oceanblueeyes's

Where is AS now?

Does it matter? It seems he was cleared by LE to leave the area and go about his personal business and job. I'm sure LE advised him about restrictions on his whereabouts, in case they needed to question him further.

arielilane
07-30-2011, 11:09 PM
o/t Didn't a neighbor hear one loud scream out of the Ramsey home that dreadful night. It would make sense to play music.
Do you think people that kill think about other well known crimes when planning or committing a crime in order to avoid making the same mistakes? It's getting late....lol

pferrin
07-30-2011, 11:13 PM
It's just that hasn't the police been called about noise in that neighborhood more than once? This probably has already been discussed.


I believe the police had been called to avenue G(DS) addy for loud noise a few times...they were called to JS for burglary..usually the wealthy are adamant about having security systems especially after breakins. Not here tho.

nanny2five
07-30-2011, 11:15 PM
Hi Nanny..be glad to.

Electrical cords do not hold a knot well at all..unless you are a sailor or used to mountain climbing knots.
They are slippery.
The end loosens very quickly..difficult to tighten.
Almost impossible to tie around your own hands to make it secure

If you use duct tape or electrical tape you could have knots stay secure for a longer period of time.
And yes they are bulky to work with.
Alot heavier than normal rope.
The larger diameter electrical cord..the more difficult to work with.
I was rolling up an elctrical cord the other day and my brother said electricians are the only ones that can tie cords up...not true ..but they are challenging :fence:

thank you pferrin, that helps alot. so very unlikely that she tied herself up with one of those cords especially if she (like most women) had no knowledge of special knots. but it would not be difficult for someone to tie another person up with those cords especially anyone who ever was a boy scout or sailed a boat or even did macremae (sp).

daisy.faithfull
07-30-2011, 11:16 PM
I know how ya feel Mentalsolstice..I am getting punchy..hehehe. The ICA case made us all a little more crazy.

No kidding.... I've been over at Celina C's thread and the first questions that entered my mind were: has anyone close to Celina recently entered a hot bod contest, desiccated the American Flag by wrapping it around their body or has a car that smells like a rotting pizza and/or road kill.

nanny2five
07-30-2011, 11:17 PM
BBM

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Surely they can link George into this case somehow. I hear just merely using his name can get a murderer off scott free!:crazy:

IMO

:floorlaugh:

Wendy101
07-30-2011, 11:20 PM
MOO, I just don't understand the fixation on AS as the prime suspect at this point. Until more evidence is made public, myself and many others here are not ready to paint him (or in fact anyone else) as the villain.

Except for the fact he was staying in the guest house, there isn't anything tying him to a murder or suicide. NOTHING there. If and when LE comes up with evidence against him, then I'll start looking at him as a POI. Right now it is pure speculation, and he is merely a witness. I don't see a motive, and I don't see anything in his behavior that suggests he killed RN. All I see is a grasping at straws, while we're waiting for LE to come out with something official. MOO

While we're at it, let's speculate that George Anthony was involved, he had an affair with RN and he made an accident (erotic asphyxiation) look like a suicide or murder ...and oh, I'm getting so confused now. I need to step away from the computer!

George? I was thinking Casey.. I figure she must be wanting JS to be her man... I bet she studied him while in jail.. so in order to have him, she had to get rid of Rebecca. Being that Maxies accident was broadcasted and the public knew, Casey assumed Rebecca would be home alone....she was right. :crazy::crazy:

i.b.nora
07-30-2011, 11:27 PM
Does anyone know of NN's whereabouts when this happened. I found it strange that he said he didn't find out about her death until Thursday, I'm in Canada and I heard about it on the day it happened.
Well, you were probably reading and posting at Websleuths on that Wednesday and he probably wasn't. Also, the coroner makes the official identification, and then has to notify the next of kin before the identity can be made public.
I don't think the coroner even arrived until that Wednesday night.

In an article here (http://www.scottsdale-az-blog.com/2011/07/15/arizona-ceos-girlfriend-f ound-hanged-off-balcony-with-hands-and-feet-bound-authorities-report/) published on Thursday July 15, it says that: The San Diego Sheriff’s Office on Thursday identified the woman as 32-year-old Rebecca Nalepa, the girlfriend of Jonah Shacknai, 54, founder and CEO of Scottsdale-based Medicis Pharmaceuticals Corp.

A sheriff’s spokesman described her death as unique and bizarre and said they have not determined if her death was a homicide or suicide.

It further says: "Nalepa is a Scottsdale resident who has been dating and living with Shacknai for about two years, according to relatives with both families.

Her ex-husband, Neil Nalepa, also of Scottsdale, said he had learned about Rebecca’s death Thursday morning and was in shock.

“This is all overwhelming,” he said. “I’m just trying to wrap my head around it.”"

mentalsolstice
07-30-2011, 11:30 PM
pferrin, i am behind as usual, sorry if this has already been addressed. i think i agree with you, but not having the use experience with those sorts of cords that you have i couldn't be sure it would be a bad choice. can you give us example of reasons it would be a bad choice? is it the size? bulkiness? thanks for your insight:)

Even if the electrical cord could not have been used for hanging her, as in too thick or unwieldy tie a knot for a hanging, could it have been used to bind her hands and legs? Hands bound to keep her from resisting her attacker and from reaching up to the noose to instinctively try to save herself? Legs bound to keep from kicking her attacker?

sdcali
07-30-2011, 11:30 PM
I'm sorry if I'm being really stupid here, but why would DS (or any woman) have trouble letting go of a man that she stood up in front of God and everybody and claimed abused her?

If she received some sort of alimony in the divorce settlement, that is not going to be contingent upon Max being alive or not, unless that is a most unusual settlement. Legally JS has to pay it no matter what.

Any child support she was awarded for Max has to be spent on Max, not herself.

So I don't see money being a motive.

Why, then, would she not want to let go of her abuser? :waitasec:

ETA: Yes, I am well aware of battered woman syndrome. However, once the woman reaches the point of litigation and public accusation, it is highly unusual for her to return to the batterer if he pursues her, and almost unheard of if he does not.

Nor have I ever heard of an instance where a battered woman pursued her abuser after the fact; usually such women return to their abusers only because the abuser pursues them and the woman feels she has no other choice financially but to go back. With a well-paying career of her own, DS was obviously not in that situation.

BBM Child support is intended to support the child. In CA, it is based on the income of the parties and the parents' timeshare with the child. "support for the child" means cost for housing, food, clothing, etc. However, unless the child's needs are not being met, there is no accounting as to how the money is spent.

I work in Family Law and when the amount of child support is a "very big number" (I am familiar with a case with an pro athlete whose child support was $20k a month)...that money is NOT spent on just the child alone. How could it? It can mean, better vacations, nicer house...you get the picture...

i.b.nora
07-30-2011, 11:35 PM
I believe the police had been called to avenue G(DS) addy for loud noise a few times...they were called to JS for burglary..usually the wealthy are adamant about having security systems especially after breakins. Not here tho.
I think the Spreckels Mansion does have or is linked up to a security system. I would be willing to bet that all the doors and windows are alarmed. Probably sends automatic calls to police, or however that works.

There is a sign in the front of the house that looks like a security system sign. Someone posted an enlarged version of it, and while you can't actually read the sign, it sure looks like that kind of sign to me.

nanny2five
07-30-2011, 11:35 PM
I would fight with all my might. I would wrestle for the gun if a gun was pulled on me or even a knife because I would know if I let myself be bound I would have no chance whatsoever to survive but be at the mercy of the one who bound me.

Now having said that..........I am one of those who has looked at thousands of crime scene photos over the years.

But with these photos I cannot say that was the position she was in when she died. These photos were taken at 2:00 pm later in the afternoon. It does not show us where she was located before the 911 6:45 am call.

Although there is a short rope hanging from the bottom middle of the balcony. All it shows us is where her body was located once she was cut down and placed on the soft grassy area. The EMTs came on right after the 911 call.

So imo all it shows is she had been mostly laid out straight except slightly more on one side due to her hands being bound behind her back. Her face is straight up though. I am sure the EMTs checked her eyes to see if they were fixed and dialated or with any signs of life when they arrived.

IMO

thank you, ocean for being so thorough. i try to look at all the little details but i just can't stand to examine it that closely. i also didn't realize the pics were so late in the day.

Inobu
07-30-2011, 11:37 PM
Ok,

Don't want to upset anyone but I'm just profiling the case and identifying the person that may be the like suspect. There are only three people left in this event. Of the three only one was in the vicinity and happened to be the one to find the body.

Then that one of three just happened to change or alter the investigation scene. Then the account that he made is suspect in that claims of revival was made yet the 911 call indicated that the woman appeared dead.

The account is further questioned by the placement of the body.

Let look at the video to get a clear picture of the table with the missing leg and ponder how one could support and dead body, cut it down while standing on a 3 legged table.

Then study the orange tether that is attached to the feet and explain why it is on the opposite side of the hang area. The tether is going to trail the feet, If the tether trailed the feet it would follow from the balcony/left side of the table not the right side. Note that the balcony is to the left of the table.

00:04 is the time point for the table. Third video on the left side menu.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mysterious-rebecca-zahau-mansion-death-devastates-family/story?id=14080327

The balcony is to the left of the table. The orange tether is attached to the feet and it will follow the feet. How is it to the right where as the hanging event is to the left on the opposite side. Everything should have fell to the ground and the orange tether would have trailed from the balcony as that is the starting point of the feet.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15119133/waiting-for-answers-in-mansion-deaths-mystery

This video allows you to see the balcony in relation to the table.


Based on what is available the scene appears to be stages and only one person is tied to the event with accounts that seen questionable.


Notice the missing leg, the table would have toppled with any kind of weight shift to the upper right.

daisy.faithfull
07-30-2011, 11:46 PM
I sure wish we would get some new info.:banghead:

We actually know very little and I have a feeling the results is going to take some time. What I can't figure out though is ....... why so long?

IMO

Its normal for tox results to take so long.

Here's an interesting article about it:
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/alcohol-abuse/features/the-truth-about-toxicology-tests
SNIP
"Some of the tests take days, weeks, months," says Alan Hall, MD, a board-certified toxicologist and consultant in Laramie, Wyo. The final toxicology report, he says, draws not only from multiple test results and confirmation of the results, but also on the clinical experience of the toxicologists and pathologists involved in the investigation, as well as field work.

Read on as Hall and two other experts shed light on toxicology tests -- what they include, why they take so long, and why they're never perfect.
SNIP

From what I have read so far it looks like it is good thing for tox results to take so long. It shows that LE is less likely to have poorly analyzed tox results or results that are unreliable for other reasons that could give some moronic defense attorney any opening to cry "phantom" science etc. etc. etc. blah, blah, blah. Especially when it comes to high profile cases that may attract bozo defense lawyers with connections to slime balls like Geraldo Rivera.

mentalsolstice
07-30-2011, 11:47 PM
Everyone is going by what AS said but never applying what and how he did it.

Cut her down.

Cut the rope from the balcony, let the body fall to the ground run down stairs, carry her to the grass so you can revive her? leaving here on her side?

Climb on a three legged table, hold a dead body, lift the tension off the rope and cut it? Climb down carry her to the grass.

When I look at the photo. I see her carried from the right to the grass area with the orange cord dragging behind. The table placed on the walkway.

As for the flinging cord. Very difficult to move dead weight. Have someone pretend to be dead and see how easy it is to move them more so spin 180 with enough force to have a 6 foot cord extend out like the photo.

What if the cords got hung up on his shoulder while he was trying to get her down? At some point he would have thrust them from his body. Being that they were heavy they would have landed more straight or slightly curved position rather than in a messy tangled bunch.

arielilane
07-30-2011, 11:55 PM
I think the Spreckels Mansion does have or is linked up to a security system. I would be willing to bet that all the doors and windows are alarmed. Probably sends automatic calls to police, or however that works.

There is a sign in the front of the house that looks like a security system sign. Someone posted an enlarged version of it, and while you can't actually read the sign, it sure looks like that kind of sign to me.
I have seen an ADT security sign in the Spreckels Mansion front yard on Google map. I plan to post a photo, however, for some reason I am having problems posting the photo. First time ever.

pferrin
07-30-2011, 11:57 PM
Even if the electrical cord could not have been used for hanging her, as in too thick or unwieldy tie a knot for a hanging, could it have been used to bind her hands and legs? Hands bound to keep her from resisting her attacker and from reaching up to the noose to instinctively try to save herself? Legs bound to keep from kicking her attacker?
yep it would be fairly simple to bind her legasand hands with electrical cord..just not easy to bind one own hands with it. I do believe she was bound to prevent her from fighting back

daisy.faithfull
07-31-2011, 12:01 AM
I have seen an ADT security sign in the Spreckels Mansion front yard on Google map. I plan to post a photo, however, for some reason I am having problems posting the photo. First time ever.

I'll go see if I can go get it if you want, what is the address?

Wendy101
07-31-2011, 12:01 AM
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15119133/w...deaths-mystery

This video allows you to see the balcony in relation to the table.

I think the table is to far away from where Rebecca would have been hanging...wouldn't the table have to be placed closer so that AS could get right under the body ? Also AS must have been a very tall man in order to do this... unless rebeccas feet were almost touching the ground..

delaney
07-31-2011, 12:07 AM
You may have noticed that I live in the Phoenix area, sometimes.

I do not live in JS and DS socially connected world. But I do know that

these two people have lost their beloved son and are suffering right now.

If you knew these two people, through their charity work only, their

dedication to a cure for autism and their hands on approach to their other

charity, you would have a far different opinion of DS and JS. That kind

of caring cannot be faked. They are good people. Yes people have messy

divorces.

JS is a business man who is involved

in the cosmetology industry. I find the use of his product no different

than my dad wearing a diamond pinky ring and a rolex, because he was

a watchmaker/ jeweler to wait on his customers.

Sitting in judgement of people is easy, waiting for new information on

the case is not. My heart goes out to these people, they have truly

used their wealth for good. I'll sit and wait.

Inobu
07-31-2011, 12:08 AM
What if the cords got hung up on his shoulder while he was trying to get her down? At some point he would have thrust them from his body. Being that they were heavy they would have landed more straight or slightly curved position rather than in a messy tangled bunch.

You have play out the event and then look at the scene and then reason it out.

1. The orange tether is on her feet that means it would have been on the ground in order for him to cut her down he had to be higher than her. That would have placed him higher than the orange tether.

I think the orange tether and the kink in the trail is from the slack taken up by someone carrying her and portions are beneath her because that is where they put her down.

The tether is pointing in the direction from which they came. I don't believe that she was hung from the balcony at ant time.

I guess we have to wait and see.

mentalsolstice
07-31-2011, 12:10 AM
o/t Didn't a neighbor hear one loud scream out of the Ramsey home that dreadful night. It would make sense to play music.
Do you think people that kill think about other well known crimes when planning or committing a crime in order to avoid making the same mistakes? It's getting late....lol

In this day and age, with the internet and 24/7 cable channels devoted to crime, I would say yes. Criminals in this country are becoming highly educated, well, at least those that plan out their crimes. I learned more on CourtTV (the old CourtTV) than I did in a lot of upper level courses that I paid dear $$$ to attend and get academic credit for. And yes, I now know how to make chloroform, even though I'm not a chemist, If a loved one dies of suspicious circumstances, guilty, or most likely not, I'm tossing my laptop into the deepest most remote water I can find.

pferrin
07-31-2011, 12:11 AM
Ok,

Don't want to upset anyone but I'm just profiling the case and identifying the person that may be the like suspect. There are only three people left in this event. Of the three only one was in the vicinity and happened to be the one to find the body.

Then that one of three just happened to change or alter the investigation scene. Then the account that he made is suspect in that claims of revival was made yet the 911 call indicated that the woman appeared dead.

The account is further questioned by the placement of the body.

Let look at the video to get a clear picture of the table with the missing leg and ponder how one could support and dead body, cut it down while standing on a 3 legged table.

Then study the orange tether that is attached to the feet and explain why it is on the opposite side of the hang area. The tether is going to trail the feet, If the tether trailed the feet it would follow from the balcony/left side of the table not the right side. Note that the balcony is to the left of the table.

00:04 is the time point for the table. Third video on the left side menu.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mysterious-rebecca-zahau-mansion-death-devastates-family/story?id=14080327

The balcony is to the left of the table. The orange tether is attached to the feet and it will follow the feet. How is it to the right where as the hanging event is to the left on the opposite side. Everything should have fell to the ground and the orange tether would have trailed from the balcony as that is the starting point of the feet.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15119133/waiting-for-answers-in-mansion-deaths-mystery

This video allows you to see the balcony in relation to the table.


Based on what is available the scene appears to be stages and only one person is tied to the event with accounts that seen questionable.


Notice the missing leg, the table would have toppled with any kind of weight shift to the upper right.

We dont know if AS was the only one of the 3 that was in th vicinity of JS home during the time of her death. All we know is he was the one that called 911.

Also..without hearing his 911 call we dont know if he said he tried to revive her or not. I listened to dispatch on the fire channel and all dispatch said to rescue 36 and mdic 36 was hanging at 1043 ocean. nothing else.

I hate to see this man get kronked..just cause he found the body..not willing to go there yet.

As for orange teather lines..there could be othe explanations for how it ended up where it did.

do I feel your theory is possible..yep. I think there are other details that need to be worked out.

arielilane
07-31-2011, 12:12 AM
I'll go see if I can go get it if you want, what is the address?


I just found out that it may be a couple of days before we can post photos. Glitch in the system.

Inobu
07-31-2011, 12:13 AM
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15119133/w...deaths-mystery

This video allows you to see the balcony in relation to the table.

I think the table is to far away from where Rebecca would have been hanging...wouldn't the table have to be placed closer so that AS could get right under the body ? Also AS must have been a very tall man in order to do this... unless rebeccas feet were almost touching the ground..

That is why I think it was staged. Now ask yourself why is the table so far away.

Answer. The three legged table has to be placed squarely on walkway in order to remain standing.

Just too many oddity.

Carrington
07-31-2011, 12:15 AM
Numerous articles have mentioned the balcony as being 10-15 from the ground.
I don't know why they can't be more precise.
I think we have only seen head-shots of Adam but he face and upper body looks like he would be a thin man. Tall, I don't know.
IMO

CuriousAmazon
07-31-2011, 12:16 AM
snipped
Originally posted by Inobu

Point 2 his reasoning to moving the body was to revive her. Where as there is no evidence of him making an attempt just as you pointed out.

CPR is the only revival means he could perform. If he cannot perform CPR then how cant you attempt to do something you don"t know how to do?

Even you are point out all the inconsistencies that should have been done based on his reasoning for cutting her down. The photo shows nothing but a body dumping so to speak. The only thing he was successful at is disrupting the investigation scene.

Exactly, and in the press conference, A journalist asks him " When Adam made the 911 call, he said what?", and Capt. Curran replies "That there was a woman on the property and that she appeared to be dead". This would tell me he knew when he made the call that she was dead, what I find interesting is that he said "there was a woman on the property" as if disconnecting any connection to RN, why not say my brothers girlfriend?[/QUOTE]

Logical & makes perfect sense to me. AS was my intial gut feeling.

jjenny
07-31-2011, 12:17 AM
Just so many strange things about this alleged suicide.
Why would she use a cord to bind her hands and feet? If to prevent her from reaching the rope, why not use a belt? If she felt guilty over child's upcoming death, the child wasn't dead yet, and why commit suicide in such a spectacular fashion? While some people do commit suicide naked, it's usually indoors, so totality of circumstances appear to be very bizarre for a suicide.

Inobu
07-31-2011, 12:20 AM
We dont know if AS was the only one of the 3 that was in th vicinity of JS home during the time of her death. All we know is he was the one that called 911.

Also..without hearing his 911 call we dont know if he said he tried to revive her or not. I listened to dispatch on the fire channel and all dispatch said to rescue 36 and mdic 36 was hanging at 1043 ocean. nothing else.

I hate to see this man get kronked..just cause he found the body..not willing to go there yet.

As for orange teather lines..there could be othe explanations for how it ended up where it did.

do I feel your theory is possible..yep. I think there are other details that need to be worked out.

I have to say...this theory is 85% and the detail that would push it to 95% is .........if the carpet came from a room to the right that would make it a crime and move the attention to another location nullifying a suicide.

daisy.faithfull
07-31-2011, 12:21 AM
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1043+ocean+blvd+coronado+ca&hl=en&ll=32.682279,-117.180798&spn=0.010313,0.011265&gl=us&z=16&layer=c&cbll=32.682647,-117.181652&panoid=2MaD84q1KksaR2k9pI17pw&cbp=12,0.27,,0,13.62

Try this.

Its amazing what you can do on those maps!

Anyway, in the upper right of the page there are three gray connected boxes. 1 box has a printer icon, the next an envelope icon and then finally a link icon.

I hit the link icon and it gave me a link... hope this works.

I guess we would have to know when the picture was taken, I doubt anyone would leave that place unarmed even if no one lived there, but there still is the possibility that the street view of the mansion has changed since the pic was taken.

arielilane
07-31-2011, 12:23 AM
ADT sign in front yard.JPG:
This is not a valid image file.

To be continued....

Carrington
07-31-2011, 12:23 AM
Exactly, and in the press conference, A journalist asks him " When Adam made the 911 call, he said what?", and Capt. Curran replies "That there was a woman on the property and that she appeared to be dead". This would tell me he knew when he made the call that she was dead, what I find interesting is that he said "there was a woman on the property" as if disconnecting any connection to RN, why not say my brothers girlfriend?

Logical & makes perfect sense to me. AS was my intial gut feeling.[/quote]

The only reason I can think of, not to mention a name or relationship would be to stall the media attention. Training by JS.
IMO

lauriej
07-31-2011, 12:23 AM
I believe the police had been called to avenue G(DS) addy for loud noise a few times...they were called to JS for burglary..usually the wealthy are adamant about having security systems especially after breakins. Not here tho.

I think the Spreckels Mansion does have or is linked up to a security system. I would be willing to bet that all the doors and windows are alarmed. Probably sends automatic calls to police, or however that works.

There is a sign in the front of the house that looks like a security system sign. Someone posted an enlarged version of it, and while you can't actually read the sign, it sure looks like that kind of sign to me.

...according to this article---both jonah and dina's homes had alarm systems. ( i can't imagine that they wouldn't in homes like those, and also since they don't reside there year round.)

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20513537,00.html
Mansion Deaths Case: Multiple Calls to Police Not Deemed Suspicious

The calls to police related to the mansion include a report of a vandalism to a vehicle, second-degree burglary, and a robbery alarm between 2008-2011.

Five calls to cops between 2009-2011 to the ex-wife's home included a suspicious vehicle call, two complaints of disturbing the peace, and a burglary alarm – but police found no crimes had been committed.

pferrin
07-31-2011, 12:25 AM
the addy is 1043 ocean ave coronado beach calif.

i.b.nora
07-31-2011, 12:26 AM
daisy — your image link is not working and its blowing the margins. maybe you should delete your post?

arielilane
07-31-2011, 12:27 AM
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1043+ocean+blvd+coronado+ca&hl=en&ll=32.682279,-117.180798&spn=0.010313,0.011265&gl=us&z=16&layer=c&cbll=32.682647,-117.181652&panoid=2MaD84q1KksaR2k9pI17pw&cbp=12,0.27,,0,13.62

Try this.

Its amazing what you can do on those maps!

Anyway, in the upper right of the page there are three gray connected boxes. 1 box has a printer icon, the next an envelope icon and then finally a link icon.

I hit the link icon and it gave me a link... hope this works.

I guess we would have to know when the picture was taken, I doubt anyone would leave that place unarmed even if no one lived there, but there still is the possibility that the street view of the mansion has changed since the pic was taken. I believe it's an updated photo. Most properties have been updated on Google. The sign is in front of the guest house or sun room.

StJohn
07-31-2011, 12:31 AM
Some questions that I keep coming back to that make me think suicide vs murder: 1) Wouldn't she have screamed loudly if someone was attempting to tie up her hands & feet, unless she had been drugged? I can't see a lone perp holding a hand over her mouth to silence her while binding her hands & feet at the same time. 2) Was Adam Shacknai in the guest house the night before she was found? If so, it seems he would have heard her scream or at least heard something & come out to investigate. 3) Was there a gag over her mouth? Someone posted they thought they saw a scarf around her neck. If so, could that have been used to gag & silence her?

I have gone over & over the scant details that have been published. I am leaning towards she committed suicide. I don't think her state of mind could have been that good, given the circumstances. She may have been putting on a brave face so her family wouldn't worry when she spoke to her sister that night. Just think about the fact that her boyfriend's son lay in the hospital in a coma, d/t an accident that occurred while in her care. Now her boyfriend is at the hospital, bonding with his ex-wife, while she is at home alone, with no one there to support her. Jonah Shacknai made a statement to the effect that he had intended to propose to Rebecca and wished he had done so sooner. That statement could be interpreted in different ways. Almost sounds like guilt to me. Maybe he felt that Rebecca would have been more secure about him & their relationship & would not have become despondent. Did he say something to her after the accident that left her feeling he might leave her? Even if not, she might have been afraid that he would blame her for Max's accident & leave her.

I read somewhere that a lot could be determined by the knots that were found in the bindings. How long can that take to analyze? Surely a knowledgeable investigator could have made a determination by now. Could be they are pretty sure it was a suicide & they think she was substance impaired, waiting on toxicology results for confirmation.

mentalsolstice
07-31-2011, 12:36 AM
You have play out the event and then look at the scene and then reason it out.

1. The orange tether is on her feet that means it would have been on the ground in order for him to cut her down he had to be higher than her. That would have placed him higher than the orange tether.

I think the orange tether and the kink in the trail is from the slack taken up by someone carrying her and portions are beneath her because that is where they put her down.

The tether is pointing in the direction from which they came. I don't believe that she was hung from the balcony at ant time.

I guess we have to wait and see.

However, after cutting her down, AS may have carried her a very short distance (a very few feet), to the grass as it may have been more uncluttered by furniture than the patio beneath the balcony. Once he disengaged himself from the body, the cord(s) may have come off of him in a straight or slightly curved manner. Unless one purposefully winds up thick electrical/extension cord (I'm thinking a plastic winder, or more primitively between one's thumb and elbow), they usually don't just clump up in a messy tangled pile. MOO

Inobu
07-31-2011, 12:41 AM
This is my last post.

In the abcnews go video pause it at 00:06

Look at the position of the tether. It shows the path traveled. The table was there first. You can see the tether outlines the table. It show that the path is from the walkway onto the grass, the void space between her and the table is the the area where the person was standing when they put her down.

The reason the tether goes to her back is because it was trapped between her back and the person's arm carrying her.

That tether is like foot prints in the snow.

Note: You have to look at everything.

Look at the main video and that does not appear to be not a happy moment.......Everything reported in this case is contradicting.

Unbelievable....

peace9274
07-31-2011, 12:47 AM
Some questions that I keep coming back to that make me think suicide vs murder: 1) Wouldn't she have screamed loudly if someone was attempting to tie up her hands & feet, unless she had been drugged? I can't see a lone perp holding a hand over her mouth to silence her while binding her hands & feet at the same time. 2) Was Adam Shacknai in the guest house the night before she was found? If so, it seems he would have heard her scream or at least heard something & come out to investigate. 3) Was there a gag over her mouth? Someone posted they thought they saw a scarf around her neck. If so, could that have been used to gag & silence her?

I have gone over & over the scant details that have been published. I am leaning towards she committed suicide. I don't think her state of mind could have been that good, given the circumstances. She may have been putting on a brave face so her family wouldn't worry when she spoke to her sister that night. Just think about the fact that her boyfriend's son lay in the hospital in a coma, d/t an accident that occurred while in her care.

Now her boyfriend is at the hospital, bonding with his ex-wife, while she is at home alone, with no one there to support her. Jonah Shacknai made a statement to the effect that he had intended to propose to Rebecca and wished he had done so sooner. That statement could be interpreted in different ways. Almost sounds like guilt to me. Maybe he felt that Rebecca would have
been more secure about him & their relationship & would not have become despondent. Did he say something to her after the accident that left her feeling he might leave her? Even if not, she might have been afraid that he would blame her for Max's accident & leave her.

I read somewhere that a lot could be determined by the knots that were found in the bindings. How long can that take to analyze? Surely a knowledgeable investigator could have made a determination by now. Could be they are pretty sure it was a suicide & they think she was substance impaired, waiting on toxicology results for confirmation.

I keep going back to the theory that she was dead before she was hanged due to the
rigor in her arms and legs. The legs are bent as though she had been sitting in a chair,
arms tied behind her and ankles tied to the chair legs.

I think the blue "scarf" was used to gag her. She died in the chair, was left there long
enough for rigor to set in and then she was hanged.

I also think there was loud music to drown out any noises &/or screams.

lauriej
07-31-2011, 12:47 AM
---snipped---

I don't think the table had a leg broken. I think it was a three legged table in its original state. They can be as sturdy as a 4 legged table because the legs are positioned for balance. My husband has a three legged Jawhorse and it is very sturdy. As much or more so than a regular sawhorse.


..i do know this---it was originally a 4-legged table.

..the broken table leg is shown on the ground-------http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb474/lauriejcampbell/bodywithcord.jpg

..the missing leg evident here as they remove it----http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb474/lauriejcampbell/roundtableremoved.jpg

Inobu
07-31-2011, 12:49 AM
mentalsolstice

ok you gotta do this. Play your scenario out while you are looking at the image and see if it makes sense.

lauriej posted a better image


Also so you think that table could supports 270 lbs? 110 her 160 him

jjenny
07-31-2011, 12:50 AM
So, did the leg broke off when AS got onto the table to cut her down?
Did the table fell as he was doing it?

Wendy101
07-31-2011, 12:58 AM
http://www.giftsandfreeadvice.com/free_advice/videotapes-spreckels-mansion-murder-mystery-real-life-film-noir/

this site shows a pic of the guest house in location to Rebeccas body

i.b.nora
07-31-2011, 12:59 AM
It appears that there is a slat or two on the top of the table that is broken through.

daisy.faithfull
07-31-2011, 01:01 AM
Just so many strange things about this alleged suicide.
Why would she use a cord to bind her hands and feet? If to prevent her from reaching the rope, why not use a belt? If she felt guilty over child's upcoming death, the child wasn't dead yet, and why commit suicide in such a spectacular fashion? While some people do commit suicide naked, it's usually indoors, so totality of circumstances appear to be very bizarre for a suicide.

When I first started reading the thread on this case I wasn't really sure what happened, then I started leaning towards suicide and my ideas were pretty much in lock step with Oceanblueeyes.

I don't know if she would agree my thinking on this, but oddly enough I lean more towards its being a suicide because of how bizarre this whole thing is. :)

Either way ITA with those who are not comfortable pointing fingers at those close to the family without any kind of proof.

Charlie09
07-31-2011, 01:05 AM
mentalsolstice

ok you gotta do this. Play your scenario out while you are looking at the image and see if it makes sense.

lauriej posted a better image


Also so you think that table could supports 270 lbs? 110 her 160 him

How do you know what he weighs?
Are you willing to consider anyone BUT AS?

mentalsolstice
07-31-2011, 01:11 AM
This is my last post.

In the abcnews go video pause it at 00:06

Look at the position of the tether. It shows the path traveled. The table was there first. You can see the tether outlines the table. It show that the path is from the walkway onto the grass, the void space between her and the table is the the area where the person was standing when they put her down.

The reason the tether goes to her back is because it was trapped between her back and the person's arm carrying her.

That tether is like foot prints in the snow.

Note: You have to look at everything.

Look at the main video and that does not appear to be not a happy moment.......Everything reported in this case is contradicting.

Unbelievable....

A lot of videos out there by the big networks. Just telling us to go to ABC isn't enough, you need to link to the specific video...otherwise, I'm not going to waste my time/hours looking for what you claim to see. Unless you're an expert or you have some very inside knowledge of this case, you are simply speculating here just as the rest of us are.

Wendy101
07-31-2011, 01:21 AM
..i do know this---it was originally a 4-legged table.

..the broken table leg is shown on the ground-------http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb474/lauriejcampbell/bodywithcord.jpg

..the missing leg evident here as they remove it----http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb474/lauriejcampbell/roundtableremoved.jpg

What I don't understand is, why is that cord so long?

The length of Rebeccas body + the length of the cord we see in the pic above leads me to believe that Adam must have cut the cord from where it was attached to the balcony or whatever it was attached to....

Inobu
07-31-2011, 01:24 AM
How do you know what he weighs?
Are you willing to consider anyone BUT AS?

Just low ball guess weight which still makes it more than the table appears to be able to handle.

I starting with AS concerning the hanging. I feel that it is a cover up and he is responsible for a cover up.

The violent death is another issue in its self. I'm just back tracking from the hanging cover up to get to the actual killer.

I got a feeling there was an interrogation that went wrong or too far. I think AS knows who that person was.

i.b.nora
07-31-2011, 01:25 AM
A real criminal profiler would ask themself the question: Does he weigh MORE THAN or LESS THAN Roy Kronk? And, if so, is he NOT happy or not HAPPY? Can he collaborate the story, or corroborate the story? Those are just for starters.

One has to really know how to ask the questions.

lauriej
07-31-2011, 01:25 AM
Exactly, and in the press conference, A journalist asks him " When Adam made the 911 call, he said what?", and Capt. Curran replies "That there was a woman on the property and that she appeared to be dead". This would tell me he knew when he made the call that she was dead, what I find interesting is that he said "there was a woman on the property" as if disconnecting any connection to RN, why not say my brothers girlfriend?

BBM

---there have been a few replies based on this statement ----attributing it to adam as what he said during his 911 call

---i was just taking another listen to the press conference-------that's not what captain curran says at all.

curran----"At approx. 06:48 hrs. yesterday morning units from the coronado police department went to that address in response to a 911 call. The reporting party , later identified as adam shaknai told the responding officers that he had found nalepa with a rope around her neck, and hanging from a balcony off the main house.

When the Coronado units arrived at the scene, they located a female on the property who appeared to be deceased."

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?redirected=true
--press conference--

Inobu
07-31-2011, 01:27 AM
A lot of videos out there by the big networks. Just telling us to go to ABC isn't enough, you need to link to the specific video...otherwise, I'm not going to waste my time/hours looking for what you claim to see. Unless you're an expert or you have some very inside knowledge of this case, you are simply speculating here just as the rest of us are.

Its the same link I posted up a few thread up but you don't have to look.

pferrin
07-31-2011, 01:32 AM
When I first started reading the thread on this case I wasn't really sure what happened, then I started leaning towards suicide and my ideas were pretty much in lock step with Oceanblueeyes.

I don't know if she would agree my thinking on this, but oddly enough I lean more towards its being a suicide because of how bizarre this whole thing is. :)

Either way ITA with those who are not comfortable pointing fingers at those close to the family without any kind of proof.

Hi daisy..I am learning alot from Oceanblueeyes. She has incited me to be more thorough because she is so thorough. Although I believe this is a homicde for many reasons.

Yet I would not have done near the work had it not been for Ocean..she is the best.

I still dont know who and how and why..Yet IMO it is homicide.

After looking at the descriptions of her friends and family about RN..for me there is no way she would have done anything this hurtful to Jonah. I believe she loved the boy.

If the death wasn't so in your face nasty..then maybe.

If she would have put her car in the garage and started the motor... pills..hanged in the shower..etc...then maybe. But not this way. IMO

CuriousAmazon
07-31-2011, 01:50 AM
Snipped from this link:
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/07/22/what-went-down-at-the-shacknai-mansion/

Initial reports state Adam was the only one there, but new reports state that Dina (Max’s mother) was “a witness in Zahau’s death”. Does this mean Dina was at the home sometime in the early morning hours of July 13th? It should be pointed out that Dina’s home is just down the road from the Shacknai mansion. Friends state both of Max’s parents were at his bedside at the time of Rebecca’s death. However, authorities have not stated that yet. Does it mean Dina is privy to information concerning Rebecca’s death? In either case, by the end of the day of the 13th attorney Paul Pfingst was retained to “represent someone connected with this case”, someone assumed to be a family member.

Two search warrants have been served to search the mansion. It is reported that during one of those searches police took several photographs of the stairs where Max’s accident occurred.

mentalsolstice
07-31-2011, 01:55 AM
mentalsolstice

ok you gotta do this. Play your scenario out while you are looking at the image and see if it makes sense.

lauriej posted a better image


Also so you think that table could supports 270 lbs? 110 her 160 him

Actually, lauriej's photo supports my claim that AS didn't carry her very far to put her in the grass (or dump her per your words), in fact it was inches to a foot. Looking at the table in that picture as well as the patio (looks like some clutter there) and assuming, as it appears in other images, that the patio and balcony have similar dimensions, everything looks quite right to support my theory that AS was uninvolved in her death except to cut her down.

I don't know what the table was made of, I do know from other photos there was a matching Adirondack chair on the patio. And we can only surmise what angle AS approached her from, and did he fully stand on the table, simply use it to boost him or her up, etc., without putting his full weight on it. Where was her noose cut? Closer to her neck, or closer to where it was tied? The cord coming from under her body tells me nothing...it could have been from her neck or her hands. Sorry, I'm still at the same place I was this morning. Until I know more, AS isn't on my hinky meter.

BTW, my dad was the first one to discover my maternal grandmother's suspicious death, however, I seriously doubt he killed her. And my mom was the last to see her alive, but she's not at the top of my list either. Actually, it was just a good old plain suicide, absent a note. Sometimes it is what it is.

IzzyBlanche
07-31-2011, 01:58 AM
MentalSolstice:

This is not directed at you, but I would like to use your very sound logic to make a similar point (bolded changes by me).

MOO, I just don't understand the fixation on [DS] as the prime suspect at this point. Until more evidence is made public, myself and many others here are not ready to paint [her] (or in fact anyone else) as the villain.

..., there isn't anything tying [her] to a murder or suicide. NOTHING there. If and when LE comes up with evidence against [her], then I'll start looking at [her] as a POI. Right now it is pure speculation, and [she] is merely a witness. I don't see a motive, apart from speculation it was jealousy mixed with revenge for her son's death, but we've no concrete proof she was jealous of RN, nor can I think of another case where a parent has murdered a caretaker because his/her child died in that person's care and I don't see anything in [her] behavior that suggests [she] killed RN. [In fact, we've seen absolutely nothing of her behavior surrounding recent events, aside from news reports that she was at her son's side at the hospital. All I see is a grasping at straws, while we're waiting for LE to come out with something official. MOO




And I might also say the same about JS.

There's no reason to think either of them read here, but if they do, whoa. I can't imagine the awfulness of first losing my child and then being blamed for murder solely on imagination and speculation.

mentalsolstice
07-31-2011, 01:58 AM
A real criminal profiler would ask themself the question: Does he weigh MORE THAN or LESS THAN Roy Kronk? And, if so, is he NOT happy or not HAPPY? Can he collaborate the story, or corroborate the story? Those are just for starters.

One has to really know how to ask the questions.

You owe me a new keyboard. :crazy:

CuriousAmazon
07-31-2011, 02:03 AM
I tried inserting the staircase pic and even attaching it, but it says wrong file type so the pic is found at the below link right under the snipped statement.

Snipped:
Concerning Max’s accidental death. When I first read about this accident I thought to myself, okay, falling down a staircase definitely could end up killing you, though I believe it is more uncommon for a child (not a baby or toddler, but a 6-year-old child) to die this way. It really depends on several factors: how steep are the stairs, what is the surface of the stairs (i.e. carpet covered, granite, etc.), from what height? Do they mean he tripped and fell down the stairs proper? or do they mean he fell OVER the stairs. If he was older, say 9 or 10, I could see him able to climb up on the rail and fall, but 6 is a bit short to do that, unless he had a chair or something he could get up on. I envisioned the stairs as a grand staircase either straight or curved. But then I found this picture and learned they are not. They have a landing.
Snipped from this link:
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/07/22/what-went-down-at-the-shacknai-mansion/


http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/07/22/what-went-down-at-the-shacknai-mansion/

Charlie09
07-31-2011, 02:05 AM
Just low ball guess weight which still makes it more than the table appears to be able to handle.

I starting with AS concerning the hanging. I feel that it is a cover up and he is responsible for a cover up.

The violent death is another issue in its self. I'm just back tracking from the hanging cover up to get to the actual killer.

I got a feeling there was an interrogation that went wrong or too far. I think AS knows who that person was.

I hadn't noticed a picture of AS on these threads (admittedly haven't clicked on each link and usually catch up at night the last few days.) I've only seen one here http://news.lalate.com/category/adam-shacknai/ it's at the bottom of the page.

If there was an interrogation gone wrong, I personally can't see AS behind it, I see the person with known physical violence towards women in his life - Jonah - but man he's so obvious.

On one hand I feel bad that I do, but I do consistently wonder about motivation when someone is absolutely sure when all we have is speculation and very little details. There is just so much opportunity for publicity spin in this situation
.
I really do feel like it was revenge, with Max and Rebecca. We just don't know why.

jjenny
07-31-2011, 02:09 AM
There would be difference jjenny.

If they made her jump I would think there would be signs off a struggle. Rebecca just wouldn't say 'ok Ill jump" she would fight to live. That is just a normal instinct when self preservation kicks in and it has been said that she was in great physical shape. So imo they would find defensive wounds on her hands and arms as she wrestled with the person trying to tie her up and would see signs of a struggle in and near the balcony area.

She would not just stand there doing nothing while the person but a noose around her neck or bound her wrists and feet up.

I am sure LE has had to figure out before if a death was a suicide or a homicide and they look for certain factors that point in one direction or the other.

The knots also can be a key piece of evidence. They most likely will call in a knot expert to get their opinion whether she made the knots herself or they believe the particular knot was used by another with a specific background and trade.

IMO

It's not always easy to figure out suicide from homicide. And police doesn't always try that hard to figure it out. I just watched "dirty little secrets" on 48 hours. Police believed preacher's wife committed suicide. Even the autopsy was not done. Her mother really had to push for an investigation, and now her husband has been convicted of her murder.

StJohn
07-31-2011, 02:12 AM
Just low ball guess weight which still makes it more than the table appears to be able to handle.

I starting with AS concerning the hanging. I feel that it is a cover up and he is responsible for a cover up.

The violent death is another issue in its self. I'm just back tracking from the hanging cover up to get to the actual killer.

I got a feeling there was an interrogation that went wrong or too far. I think AS knows who that person was.

Geez Inobu - I was all set to say suicide, but you make a lot of good, thought-provoking points about AS and possible interrogation scenario. Also, when I looked at the video you posted, I noticed Rebecca's legs were bent, which would seem to indicate that she hadn't been dead that long. I think it takes at least 3 hrs for rigor mortis to start.

I looked into AS's background a little bit - he had a mariner captain's license a few years back. I read that he now works for a tugboat co. so he would know a lot about tying knots I suppose. He had several different addresses listed in Memphis TN, no indication he is married or has kids. Another scenario I thought of is did AS possibly try to hit on Rebecca, she refused, and he got angry & violent?

CuriousAmazon
07-31-2011, 02:21 AM
This video shows RS's who is AS's leasing agent neighbor. He discusses the conversation with AS. The video is on this webpage. http://www.wmctv.com/story/15091608/memphian-discovers-body-in-brothers-san-diego-mansion?clienttype=printable

The reporter states that AS called RS during the interview to say "police are interrogating him about the death of his brother's girlfriend"..."but don't worry I didn't have anything to do with it."

katydid23
07-31-2011, 02:25 AM
I pondered the scenario of AS hitting upon RN and feeling rejected and angry as well. But it is really hard to imagine that he would hit on anyone with his 6 yr old nephew laying on his death bed. He would have to be a true monster to do that, one night after such a horrible tragedy.

It also seems weird that anyone would carry out a violent murder like that, while everyone knows you are out in the guest house, and there is no one else home. Does not seem very smart.

mentalsolstice
07-31-2011, 02:28 AM
MentalSolstice:

This is not directed at you, but I would like to use your very sound logic to make a similar point (bolded changes by me).




And I might also say the same about JS.

There's no reason to think either of them read here, but if they do, whoa. I can't imagine the awfulness of first losing my child and then being blamed for murder solely on imagination and speculation.

I kind of started out thinking it was a homicide, but now I'm 50/50. Thus if I have that much belief that it was a suicide, then it's even harder for me to start pointing fingers at a possible murder suspect (as in s/he supposedly said this, that and the other and s/he was there, therefore s/he's the prime suspect, etc.).

I've actually started really wondering about RN's cultural and religious beliefs and how they come into play in all this. I wonder about her sense of loyalty/responsibility for what happened to MS, and her cultural and religious beliefs about death and suicide. When I was in college, I had two roommates from Taiwan...and yes there is a huge cultural divide, doesn't make it right or wrong, it's just there, and hopefully most of us strive to understand and accept the differences.

CuriousAmazon
07-31-2011, 02:35 AM
At this link you can see two blue ADT security signs. One is on the left of the house in front of the hedges and the other one is at the main entrance (center of mansion), upfront to the right. http://fwix.com/sd/share/905256d2e3/alterations_requested_for_spreckels_mansion

I saw a larger picture earlier on another website that clearly without a doubt shows the ADT SIGN, but I can't locate it now, it's definitely ADT, I'll keep looking for the website.

StJohn
07-31-2011, 02:56 AM
At this link you can see two blue ADT security signs. One is on the left of the house in front of the hedges and the other one is at the main entrance (center of mansion), upfront to the right. http://fwix.com/sd/share/905256d2e3/alterations_requested_for_spreckels_mansion

I saw a larger picture earlier on another website that clearly without a doubt shows the ADT SIGN, but I can't locate it now, it's definitely ADT, I'll keep looking for the website.

TY for the link, if you pull up google maps & zoom in on the garage, there is another ADT sign near a side window. Suffice it to say that, unless they are bungling keystone cops, LE already know when the alarms were on, when, or if, they were off, and whether there were signs of a break-in. LE also should know whether or not JS & DS are in the clear by viewing hospital surveillance tapes. Trust me, I am a nurse and children's hospitals are more closely surveilled, due to potential for child abuse. There will be proof of JS & DS whereabouts in that hospital. I guess that is why some folks are zeroing in on AS, because if she didn't commit suicide, he seems to be the only one who can't be completely ruled out.

Inobu
07-31-2011, 03:24 AM
Geez Inobu - I was all set to say suicide, but you make a lot of good, thought-provoking points about AS and possible interrogation scenario. Also, when I looked at the video you posted, I noticed Rebecca's legs were bent, which would seem to indicate that she hadn't been dead that long. I think it takes at least 3 hrs for rigor mortis to start.

I looked into AS's background a little bit - he had a mariner captain's license a few years back. I read that he now works for a tugboat co. so he would know a lot about tying knots I suppose. He had several different addresses listed in Memphis TN, no indication he is married or has kids. Another scenario I thought of is did AS possibly try to hit on Rebecca, she refused, and he got angry & violent?

I think her death was 2 or 3 am. The rigor mortis had set in before she was placed outside. In earlier (before censored filter) photos you could see her legs were stiff and knees bent and open. In either case if she was really hanged the knees would have been straight and locked from RM or the knees would have fell closed before RM had not set in.

I think the delay in time was caused by 1 prohibiting factors.

1. Could not report because of the time too close to the stopping of the music which would linked the to together.

Any case this my last post lets see what happened.

Inobu

tiredblondy
07-31-2011, 04:01 AM
Its the same link I posted up a few thread up but you don't have to look.

Here is the link to the video Inobu was talking about. It is the 3rd video on the left side of the page after scrolling down. The cord is highlighted right at the first of the vid.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mysterious-...ry?id=14080327 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/mysterious-rebecca-zahau-mansion-death-devastates-family/story?id=14080327)


Thanks Inobu, I must say I've never seen that one before and it clearly shows when they highlight the cord that it is tied to her feet.

tiredblondy
07-31-2011, 04:07 AM
I think her death was 2 or 3 am. The rigor mortis had set in before she was placed outside. In earlier (before censored filter) photos you could see her legs were stiff and knees bent and open. In either case if she was really hanged the knees would have been straight and locked from RM or the knees would have fell closed before RM had not set in.

I think the delay in time was caused by 1 prohibiting factors.

1. Could not report because of the time too close to the stopping of the music which would linked the to together.

Any case this my last post lets see what happened.

Inobu

Yes Inobu we had discussed in one of the earlier threads about this. Someone even thought that she might have been sitting in a chair or I had thought possible a kneeling position when she died and then suspended over the balcony.

Also don't know if you know this or not but I believe a large picture or picture frame was also removed with the carpet, bags and table.

I hope you will continue to post. I value your insights.

lauriej
07-31-2011, 04:52 AM
Snipped from this link:
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/07/22/what-went-down-at-the-shacknai-mansion/ ---snipped----

Initial reports state Adam was the only one there, but new reports state that Dina (Max’s mother) was “a witness in Zahau’s death”. Does this mean Dina was at the home sometime in the early morning

Two search warrants have been served to search the mansion. It is reported that during one of those searches police took several photographs of the stairs where Max’s accident occurred.

BBM

..it was later determined , through captain curran , when asked if anyone was a suspect?----------"everyone at this time is considered to be a 'witness'".

..---shocker---that a news article would ( not hear correctly ) and go ahead and print that she was 'a witness--- in rebecca's death' (!)-----most likely the same media source that, even though captain curran used "she was deceased" 4 times at the press conference-----they ran with "she was in distress" ( and then of course a number of articles said the same..)---leaving us to wonder if she was then ALIVE when initially found?

..and we wonder why this case is confusing!

..it was during the 2nd SW on friday the 15th, that LE brought in the stepladder----paying "particular attention to the chandelier" ( says the news source that was watching/taking video of them ) and taking pics of the stairs.

---LE and stepladder under the chandelier---http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb474/lauriejcampbell/ladderchandelierday4video3.jpg

---the staircase-----http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb474/lauriejcampbell/stairschandeliervideo3.jpg

--LE checks out the staircase area-----------http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb474/lauriejcampbell/leshineslightonstaircase.jpg

lauriej
07-31-2011, 05:01 AM
I kind of started out thinking it was a homicide, but now I'm 50/50. Thus if I have that much belief that it was a suicide, then it's even harder for me to start pointing fingers at a possible murder suspect (as in s/he supposedly said this, that and the other and s/he was there, therefore s/he's the prime suspect, etc.).

I've actually started really wondering about RN's cultural and religious beliefs and how they come into play in all this. I wonder about her sense of loyalty/responsibility for what happened to MS, and her cultural and religious beliefs about death and suicide. When I was in college, I had two roommates from Taiwan...and yes there is a huge cultural divide, doesn't make it right or wrong, it's just there, and hopefully most of us strive to understand and accept the differences.

..if she was so despondent over maxie------why kill herself ( sometime between midnight of the 12th--early a.m. of the 13th )-- when he wasn't dead yet?

..GS posted on her F/B friday the 15th R.I.P. maxie-----the family announced his passing on sunday the 17th.

..i can't see that she could have THAT MUCH guilt and "cultural shame" over an accident-------to kill herself.

..and------in such a horrific fashion.

peace9274
07-31-2011, 06:22 AM
..if she was so despondent over maxie------

why kill herself ( sometime between midnight of the 12th--early a.m. of the 13th )-- when he wasn't dead yet?

..GS posted on her F/B friday the 15th R.I.P. maxie-----the family announced his passing on sunday the 17th.

..i can't see that she could have THAT MUCH guilt and "cultural shame" over an accident-------to kill herself.

..and------in such a horrific fashion.

BBM

I think whoever killed RN, whether herself or someone else,
s/he knew that MS was brain dead & was still on life support
until organ recipients &/OR more family members arrived.

As a nurse, I've seen it happen for both situations.

obmama
07-31-2011, 06:55 AM
BBM
"particular attention to the chandelier"
[/IMG]

I knew I heard that somewhere. I did go back to one of the videos that reported a ladder was brought in for the second SW. It must have been another video that connected the ladder with inspecting the chandelier.

The 2nd search warrant was the day GS posted "rip maxie" on Facebook. I imagine news of his death prompted the 2nd SW. The video I watched said several investigators were seen jumping up and down on the second floor, as if trying to recreate Max's fall.

This is the third unusual reference to the chandelier, that connects it with MS's fall. The first the day of RN's death, a neighbor said a lighting fixture fell on him. The other was after MS's death, reporting he fell "onto a chandelier".

That's a great picture you posted of the chandelier. It gives a broader view than others I'd seen. Seeing the upper level of the staircase confirms my suspicions that MS was sliding down the rail and veered to the right into the chandelier. I read a few reports that said he had no pulse and was "unable to breathe". This is consistent with breaking your neck.

Coincidently, a drop hanging (dropping several feet with a noose around your neck) results in a broken neck. My theory is RN's death mimicked MS's.

obmama
07-31-2011, 07:59 AM
..if she was so despondent over maxie------why kill herself ( sometime between midnight of the 12th--early a.m. of the 13th )-- when he wasn't dead yet?

..GS posted on her F/B friday the 15th R.I.P. maxie-----the family announced his passing on sunday the 17th.

..i can't see that she could have THAT MUCH guilt and "cultural shame" over an accident-------to kill herself.

..and------in such a horrific fashion.

MS had been in a medically induced coma since the accident. He wasn't breathing when EMT's arrived, and may have suffered irreversible brain damage due to lack of oxygen. He had an MRI scheduled Wednesday morning, the morning of RN's death, presumably to confirm what doctors suspected after two days of observation, that he was "brain dead".

RN spoke to her sister at midnight, I assume 10 p.m. PST, and said RN was "normal, fine" and planned to call the next day with an update on Max's condition. It's likely RN got the bad news after speaking to her sister.

Whether JS blamed her, or she blamed herself, I believe it was motive for suicide. I'm inclined to believe he blamed her, and she saw her future ruined.

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 08:55 AM
Ok,

Don't want to upset anyone but I'm just profiling the case and identifying the person that may be the like suspect. There are only three people left in this event. Of the three only one was in the vicinity and happened to be the one to find the body.

Then that one of three just happened to change or alter the investigation scene. Then the account that he made is suspect in that claims of revival was made yet the 911 call indicated that the woman appeared dead.

The account is further questioned by the placement of the body.

Let look at the video to get a clear picture of the table with the missing leg and ponder how one could support and dead body, cut it down while standing on a 3 legged table.

Then study the orange tether that is attached to the feet and explain why it is on the opposite side of the hang area. The tether is going to trail the feet, If the tether trailed the feet it would follow from the balcony/left side of the table not the right side. Note that the balcony is to the left of the table.

00:04 is the time point for the table. Third video on the left side menu.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mysterious-rebecca-zahau-mansion-death-devastates-family/story?id=14080327

The balcony is to the left of the table. The orange tether is attached to the feet and it will follow the feet. How is it to the right where as the hanging event is to the left on the opposite side. Everything should have fell to the ground and the orange tether would have trailed from the balcony as that is the starting point of the feet.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15119133/waiting-for-answers-in-mansion-deaths-mystery

This video allows you to see the balcony in relation to the table.


Based on what is available the scene appears to be stages and only one person is tied to the event with accounts that seen questionable.


Notice the missing leg, the table would have toppled with any kind of weight shift to the upper right.

Well we actually don't know who was there between the hours of midnight and before Adam found her hanging. Adam would be in the guest house so what was going on in the mansion would not have been known to him. I do remember reading that there may have been others there.

Can someone freeze frame the table showing a 'missing' leg? I have gone back and forth stopping the video and I don't see a missing leg. In one of the videos I do see that the back leg to the left cannot be seen because of the camera view and when LE is bringing the table out the officer's body obstructs the view of all legs.

It is difficult to believe that multi-millionaire JS would dare have anything on his mansion million dollar property that was broken and not in good working condition.

Where did the 'three legged table with leg missing' come from anyway? Did LE say this table had a broken or missing leg?

It definitely is an outside weather worn table. Slotted style so rain can run through and not puddle up on table.

The postioning of the table doesn't bother me but it does show once he got her down he placed her body of the soft grass right out from the table area.

I don't think anything was staged. It is obvious to me he used the table because it would not normally sit on the brick walkway blocking the path.

IMO

obmama
07-31-2011, 09:02 AM
Does it matter? It seems he was cleared by LE to leave the area and go about his personal business and job. I'm sure LE advised him about restrictions on his whereabouts, in case they needed to question him further.


LE advised there were no travel restrictions placed on anyone connected to the case.

I don't think AS is a suspect. I think Paul Pfingst (attorney) showed up on AS's behalf because he was being questioned by LE, which he confirmed when he called his neighbor/rental agent. Being the one who found RN, and the only person on the premises, he probably was subject to an uncomfortable interrogation, give a DNA sample, perhaps even undergo a lie detector test. I believe AS was in the mansion when the attorney showed up Wednesday night and was refused entry. The attorney said he represented someone inside.

peace9274
07-31-2011, 09:10 AM
.......

<snipped by peace9274>
Can someone freeze frame the table showing a 'missing' leg? I have gone back and forth stopping the video and I don't see a missing leg. In one of the videos I do see that the back leg to the left cannot be seen because of the camera view and when LE is bringing the table out the officer's body obstructs the view of all legs.

It is difficult to believe that multi-millionaire JS would dare have anything on his mansion million dollar property that was broken and not in good working condition.

Where did the 'three legged table with leg missing' come from anyway? Did LE say this table had a broken or missing leg?

<respectfully snipped by peace9274>

IMO

Yes.... there is a very good, clear, close-up photo, that someone
posted last night, that actually shows where the leg broke off.

I'll go look for it.

peace9274
07-31-2011, 09:12 AM
Here it is. My thanx to Lauriej!


..i do know this---it was originally a 4-legged table.

..the broken table leg is shown on the ground-------http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb474/lauriejcampbell/bodywithcord.jpg

..the missing leg evident here as they remove it----http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb474/lauriejcampbell/roundtableremoved.jpg

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 09:43 AM
Here it is. My thanx to Lauriej!

Thanks, Peace.

Where is the broken leg supposed to be in the first photo? I don't see a 30'" or longer piece of wood that would represent the table leg?

And the second photo shows one leg on the front and back on the left side and one on the front on the right side but the back leg is blocked from view. If there was no leg on the back then the officer's leg would go underneath the table when he carried it but as you see his thigh is outside of the table and leg area.

peace9274
07-31-2011, 09:52 AM
Thanks, Peace.

Where is the broken leg supposed to be in the first photo? I don't see a 30'" or longer piece of wood that would represent the table leg?

My guess is: After the rescue attempt, the broken-leg table was
moved from under the balcony to where it is in the top photo.

It may have broken off while AS was standing on it, attempting to cut RN from the balcony.
Then it was set back upright, on it's 3 legs, with the 4th leg still under the balcony & out of the photo... (???)

nanny2five
07-31-2011, 09:57 AM
i have been looking hard at the pic peace posted above (only because the horrid part is blurred) and i think the blue thing is a piece of the neck stabilization device.
also this, nobody go on a wild link chase, just if anybody remembers, did the LE say RN was bound with those orange extension cords or did he just say electric cord? imo it makes a difference. if it was orange extension cords then pferrin made some very valid points about how and why it would be difficult for her to tie herself up with those. on the other hand, if it was electric cord, maybe from a lamp or something, she would be more likely to be able to manage that herself imo. fwiw it looks to me like something bright orange around her arm, but i cant tell for sure since its so blurry.

nanny2five
07-31-2011, 10:00 AM
Thanks, Peace.

Where is the broken leg supposed to be in the first photo? I don't see a 30'" or longer piece of wood that would represent the table leg?

And the second photo shows one leg on the front and back on the left side and one on the front on the right side but the back leg is blocked from view. If there was no leg on the back then the officer's leg would go underneath the table when he carried it but as you see his thigh is outside of the table and leg area.

i don't see a broken piece in the first photo either, ocean, but in the second one you can see right on the front where the leg is broken off. i believe the table is broken, but if it was broken in the incident then the leg should be on the ground and i don't see it.

peace9274
07-31-2011, 10:03 AM
Regarding the blue item shown next to RN's neck:
There are other photos of her that are not blurred.
In those, it looks to me as though it's a scarf around
her neck & may have been used to gag/silence her.

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 10:03 AM
Did anyone do a screen shot before the media blurred her body almost completely out?

tia

IMO

obmama
07-31-2011, 10:06 AM
i saw that he said their last discussion was about a joint credit card but i didn't see that i was about the bill. don't chase the link tho, i am reading backwards so i should run into it. if i do i will send it down :)

It was a local (San Diego) news video, I believe Thursday, the day after RN's death. I don't have the link. He said she changed, wanting a life of luxury. Said they spoke the week before about a joint credit card.

I also find it odd he didn't file for divorce until mid-2010, when she'd been living with JS for approximately 1 1/2 years.

He obviously isn't rolling in money. Her situation changed drastically, and she was. I can't imagine JS approving a joint credit card between the two. She betrayed NN, how can she be sure he wouldn't do the same by maxing out a credit card and leaving her with the bill.

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 10:06 AM
i don't see a broken piece in the first photo either, ocean, but in the second one you can see right on the front where the leg is broken off. i believe the table is broken, but if it was broken in the incident then the leg should be on the ground and i don't see it.

Thank you.

Yes that was what I was looking for and dont see it on the ground anywhere. If it broke off or came loose then the table leg should be around three feet long imo.

Thanks for helping me everyone. It is confusing to me when the angle of the shots can distort the photo.

IMO

peace9274
07-31-2011, 10:09 AM
Did anyone do a screen shot before the media blurred her body almost completely out?

tia

IMO


I didn't screen shot any unblurred photos, but I did look at them several times & studied them
at length. They were from a different angle than the blurred ones that I just re-posted above.

The unblurred photos were posted very early on... they may still be on the 1st thread & within the
first few pages. In those unblurred photos, you can see her legs bent & arms still behind/under her.

I also keep saying that if she hanged herself, her legs would be straightened. That is unless, the rope
stretched and she slumped into a semi kneeling position on the ground or onto the table.

But in the unblurred photos, you can also see that her legs are tied, but not close together...
which keeps taking me back to the theory that she died while sitting in & tied to a chair. KWIM???

I'll see if I can find them.

nanny2five
07-31-2011, 10:10 AM
Did anyone do a screen shot before the media blurred her body almost completely out?

tia

IMO

i think there are some in the first thread, ocean. i am going back to see if i can find out exactly what was said about the cords. if i find an unblurred pic i will send it down.

nanny2five
07-31-2011, 10:17 AM
MS had been in a medically induced coma since the accident. He wasn't breathing when EMT's arrived, and may have suffered irreversible brain damage due to lack of oxygen. He had an MRI scheduled Wednesday morning, the morning of RN's death, presumably to confirm what doctors suspected after two days of observation, that he was "brain dead".

RN spoke to her sister at midnight, I assume 10 p.m. PST, and said RN was "normal, fine" and planned to call the next day with an update on Max's condition. It's likely RN got the bad news after speaking to her sister.

Whether JS blamed her, or she blamed herself, I believe it was motive for suicide. I'm inclined to believe he blamed her, and she saw her future ruined.

bbm i am so in the middle right now. i don't know what to think. the clues that we have are all over the place with nothing pointing definitively in any one direction. it would be so easy for me to believe it was suicide, under the circumstances, but the way it was done just does not add up to me.

nanny2five
07-31-2011, 10:26 AM
I didn't screen shot any unblurred photos, but I did look at them several times & studied them
at length. They were from a different angle than the blurred ones that I just re-posted above.

The unblurred photos were posted very early on... they may still be on the 1st thread & within the
first few pages. In those unblurred photos, you can see her legs bent & arms still behind/under her.

I also keep saying that if she hanged herself, her legs would be straightened. That is unless, the rope
stretched and she slumped into a semi kneeling position on the ground or onto the table.

But in the unblurred photos, you can also see that her legs are tied, but not close together...
which keeps taking me back to the theory that she died while sitting in & tied to a chair. KWIM???

I'll see if I can find them.

bbm if that was the case and rope stretched and she was semi kneeling, then why would AS need to "cut her down" and also would they have said she was "hanging"? i think there is another explanation for the position of her legs. i don't know what that explanation is.

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 10:27 AM
I want to thank everyone again for trying to help me understand the photos more.

I just think we are missing something.

If Adam's story just didn't add up why would LE a week later tell a local reporter they were leaning toward a suicide and saying there is documentation that people do bind their hands and feet up before they commit suicide? On a link already posted.

It just seems to me these 15 homicide detectives would know if what Adam said rang true based on the scene.

The problem we have with really no sound conclusive evidence of what happened or how Adam cut her down.

Yet, Adam is allowed to leave and go back to his home very early after Rebecca's death. His story had to make sense to LE about what he found and what he did.

IMO

nanny2five
07-31-2011, 10:39 AM
I want to thank everyone again for trying to help me understand the photos more.

I just think we are missing something.

If Adam's story just didn't add up why would LE a week later tell a local reporter they were leaning toward a suicide and saying there is documentation that people do bind their hands and feet up before they commit suicide? On a link already posted.

It just seems to me these 15 homicide detectives would know if what Adam said rang true based on the scene.

The problem we have with really no sound conclusive evidence of what happened or how Adam cut her down.

Yet, Adam is allowed to leave and go back to his home very early after Rebecca's death. His story had to make sense to LE about what he found and what he did.

IMO

bbm i totally agree with you that AS being allowed to leave and return home would tend to take him off of the suspect list, if it even was a murder. on the other hand, it is possible that LE suspects AS of something but they cannot just tell him to stay in california when his home and job is in another state. of course we have all heard of LE telling someone to "not leave the area" but how long can they keep a person away from their home without charging them or even declaring the death a murder. and if AS is actually the one who got a lawyer, maybe it wasn't to defend him in a murder, but simply to protect his right to go home?

Theforeigner
07-31-2011, 10:53 AM
Of all places, Rebecca Nalepa's x-husband Neil J Nalepa's native area is Long Island, NY.
At least he graduated in 1993 from High School in Centereach, NY (Long Island) and he has several older relatives on Long island.
ALL his own and his relatives Long island addresses are located in Nassau and Suffolk county.


I´m NOT saying that NJN is connected to the Long Island Serial killer case, I just found it kind of interesting him beeing a native of the two Long Island counties, Nassau and Suffolk, right were the Long island Seral killer case is taking place.

I have a list of the towns in which NJN have listed addresses as well as his relatives. If it´s alowed to post them, and someone want me to post them, please let me know.
I will NOT post street addresses or names, just towns.

nanny2five
07-31-2011, 11:00 AM
She was nude and her hands and feet were bound with electric wires. it does't say what kind of electric wires.

from this article: http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/182014/20110718/max-shacknai-dies-mystery-over-death-of-rebecca-nalepa-deepens-pharmaceutical-jonah-girl-friend-fath.htm

defense101
07-31-2011, 11:02 AM
BBM

---there have been a few replies based on this statement ----attributing it to adam as what he said during his 911 call

---i was just taking another listen to the press conference-------that's not what captain curran says at all.

curran----"At approx. 06:48 hrs. yesterday morning units from the coronado police department went to that address in response to a 911 call. The reporting party , later identified as adam shaknai told the responding officers that he had found nalepa with a rope around her neck, and hanging from a balcony off the main house.

When the Coronado units arrived at the scene, they located a female on the property who appeared to be deceased."

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?redirected=true
--press conference--That is what AS told responding officers. If you go further into the press conference video during the reporters questions about the 911 call this is what he says. "That there was a woman on the property and that she appeared to be dead".

jjenny
07-31-2011, 11:17 AM
I want to thank everyone again for trying to help me understand the photos more.

I just think we are missing something.

If Adam's story just didn't add up why would LE a week later tell a local reporter they were leaning toward a suicide and saying there is documentation that people do bind their hands and feet up before they commit suicide? On a link already posted.

It just seems to me these 15 homicide detectives would know if what Adam said rang true based on the scene.

The problem we have with really no sound conclusive evidence of what happened or how Adam cut her down.

Yet, Adam is allowed to leave and go back to his home very early after Rebecca's death. His story had to make sense to LE about what he found and what he did.

IMO

I do not believe LE has a right to tell someone where to go or not to go.

obmama
07-31-2011, 11:22 AM
until autopsy comes in it will be difficult perhaps impossible to figure wheither RN died before or after she was hanged.


The autopsy is in, just sealed. So, LE involved with the case are in the know. The Coronado police chief made a statement that there was no evidence of criminal activity. He went as far as saying, "that leaves suicide." That's when RN's sister spoke out and said her sister would NEVER take her own life.

I presume he said this because nothing was discovered in the autopsy that pointed to foul play. Unless, it was to throw off the killer, if it is indeed a murder.

scorekeeper
07-31-2011, 11:59 AM
BBM

I think whoever killed RN, whether herself or someone else,
s/he knew that MS was brain dead & was still on life support until organ recipients &/OR more family members arrived.

As a nurse, I've seen it happen for both situations.


I'm catching up from last night.
BBM
I have wondered if the parents knew on Monday that due to the severity of MS's injuries he was already brain dead. I would think it would be SOP to repeat testing in a couple of days to re-confirm condition (would make that Wed). This also give parents/family time to come to terms with child's condition and to discuss options. If RN was at the hospital on Monday and Tuesday, I'm sure she was well aware of MS's condition and that they were running more test on Wed............things could have been said/implied at the hospital to make RN feel responsible or she could have overheard conversations. If no change in his condition and family knew the outcome from Wed testing was not going to positive, did the angry build and build?
Did someone demand answers from RN?

I am having a really hard time accepting suicide due to the violent scene.

CuriousAmazon
07-31-2011, 12:04 PM
The autopsy is in, just sealed. So, LE involved with the case are in the know. The Coronado police chief made a statement that there was no evidence of criminal activity. He went as far as saying, "that leaves suicide." That's when RN's sister spoke out and said her sister would NEVER take her own life.

I presume he said this because nothing was discovered in the autopsy that pointed to foul play. Unless, it was to throw off the killer, if it is indeed a murder.

I don't trust anything the media writes because each puts its own spin on it. obmama - do u have a video link to the police chief's statement? I trust the videos of where I can actually see & hear what LE is saying and the radioreference archives that was posted several pages up.

arielilane
07-31-2011, 12:04 PM
MS had been in a medically induced coma since the accident. He wasn't breathing when EMT's arrived, and may have suffered irreversible brain damage due to lack of oxygen. He had an MRI scheduled Wednesday morning, the morning of RN's death, presumably to confirm what doctors suspected after two days of observation, that he was "brain dead".

RN spoke to her sister at midnight, I assume 10 p.m. PST, and said RN was "normal, fine" and planned to call the next day with an update on Max's condition. It's likely RN got the bad news after speaking to her sister.

Whether JS blamed her, or she blamed herself, I believe it was motive for suicide. I'm inclined to believe he blamed her, and she saw her future ruined. Bolded by me. Come to think of it - how could one be "normal, fine" after having a child fall and in the hospital under your watch. However, I do believe it was an accident.

pferrin
07-31-2011, 12:07 PM
The autopsy is in, just sealed. So, LE involved with the case are in the know. The Coronado police chief made a statement that there was no evidence of criminal activity. He went as far as saying, "that leaves suicide." That's when RN's sister spoke out and said her sister would NEVER take her own life.

I presume he said this because nothing was discovered in the autopsy that pointed to foul play. Unless, it was to throw off the killer, if it is indeed a murder.

Nothing is final til tox reports are back. The coronado police chief Is working with SDPD on this case. Sometimes police make a statement like that to bait criminals. also I am certain that police chief is trying to calm the folks in his sleepy little town. IMO

jjenny
07-31-2011, 12:08 PM
Bolded by me. Come to think of it - how could one be "normal, fine" after having a child fall and in the hospital under your watch. However, I do believe it was an accident.

I think the sister meant RN did not appear to be suicidal or depressed and had future plans.

CuriousAmazon
07-31-2011, 12:17 PM
to the stopping of the music which would linked the to together.

Any case this my last post lets see what happened.

Inobu

Inobu, I came here because I was interested in this case and valued everyone's thoughts & opinions. I also value your thoughts & perspective and hope this is NOT your last post.

I've been around Asians all my life and taking what her family says about her religion and when she came to this country from Burma, etc... I feel she would not have committed suicide in the NUDE in this Manner. If she wanted not to upset her family with her phone call the night before, well she didn't think about how finding her in this manner would greatly upset her family and bring shame on the family. That's just me speaking based on my cultural experiences.

4Jacy
07-31-2011, 12:18 PM
When I first heard about this case I knew it would be ruled a suicide. JS with all his money and power will make this go away. People in that position always do.

And, there is no way RN's life would have been ruined if JS told her to get out of his life. Perhaps she couldn't live the life she had become accustomed to, but she had her beauty, her profession, her health, and her family for moral support. Also, she was a young woman, actually she had her whole life ahead of her.

Nooo, something is extremely fishy in Denmark!!

arielilane
07-31-2011, 12:19 PM
Did anyone do a screen shot before the media blurred her body almost completely out?

tia

IMO

pic.JPG:
This is not a valid image file. I'm still having problems posting photos. Glitch in the system at this time. Here is a link that provides a picture befor media blurred the body out.http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/photo_gallery/kswb-photos-nude-woman-found-dead-at-mansion-20110715,0,6503880.photogallery

scorekeeper
07-31-2011, 12:30 PM
pic.JPG:
This is not a valid image file. I'm still having problems posting photos. Glitch in the system at this time. Here is a link that provides a picture befor media blurred the body out.http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/photo_gallery/kswb-photos-nude-woman-found-dead-at-mansion-20110715,0,6503880.photogallery

In photo 4, it looks like the broken off table leg is there by the back of the table

defense101
07-31-2011, 01:02 PM
You may have noticed that I live in the Phoenix area, sometimes.

I do not live in JS and DS socially connected world. But I do know that

these two people have lost their beloved son and are suffering right now.

If you knew these two people, through their charity work only, their

dedication to a cure for autism and their hands on approach to their other

charity, you would have a far different opinion of DS and JS. That kind

of caring cannot be faked. They are good people. Yes people have messy

divorces.

JS is a business man who is involved

in the cosmetology industry. I find the use of his product no different

than my dad wearing a diamond pinky ring and a rolex, because he was

a watchmaker/ jeweler to wait on his customers.

Sitting in judgement of people is easy, waiting for new information on

the case is not. My heart goes out to these people, they have truly

used their wealth for good. I'll sit and wait.
Yes, I agree that the loss of their child leaves them suffering, but also RN's parents lost a child and they too are suffering. As well, sometimes good people do bad things. imo

Rhyme & Reason
07-31-2011, 01:07 PM
When I first heard about this case I knew it would be ruled a suicide. JS with all his money and power will make this go away. People in that position always do.
And, there is no way RN's life would have been ruined if JS told her to get out of his life. Perhaps she couldn't live the life she had become accustomed to, but she had her beauty, her profession, her health, and her family for moral support. Also, she was a young woman, actually she had her whole life ahead of her.

Nooo, something is extremely fishy in Denmark!!

BBM - ITA! I'm just waiting for LE to officially rule suicide. No matter what, that's what they are going to say.

CocoChanel
07-31-2011, 01:07 PM
I am probably the last to notice just how close to the beach this mansion was located. It is 'on the beach' with only Ocean Drive between the front door and the sand. The overhead pictures I have been looking at never included the beach area, and made the geography much more enclosed to me, but now I see otherwise.

I also am just now realizing how close it is to the Hotel Del Coronado, which is the huge luxurious resort with red turrets that I have associated in pictures with Coronado as long as I can remember. It looks to be less than a block away from the mansion.

I doubt any of this has any bearing to this case, other than to underscore what a fairy tale setting it is, and how tragedy can happen even in the most idyllic places.

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 01:16 PM
In photo 4, it looks like the broken off table leg is there by the back of the table

I think photo Number 3 shows it even clearer. It shows it as if it came off right there where it sits in that same location.

I wonder if that happened from Adam standing on it or maybe he pulled it from another place in the yard and didn't realize he had damaged or broken one of the legs?

IMO

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 01:19 PM
BBM - ITA! I'm just waiting for LE to officially rule suicide. No matter what, that's what they are going to say.

I dont think they will do that unless they are sure it is a suicide. Many powerful people have gone to prison for wrongdoings including murders.

If someone did this........then they will be held accountable and charged imo.

IMO

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 01:22 PM
Yes, I agree that the loss of their child leaves them suffering, but also RN's parents lost a child and they too are suffering. As well, sometimes good people do bad things. imo

And we also know that bad things can happen to good people.

IMO

scorekeeper
07-31-2011, 01:28 PM
I dont think they will do that unless they are sure it is a suicide. Many powerful people have gone to prison for wrongdoings including murders.

If someone did this........then they will be held accountable and charged imo.

IMO

oceanblueeyes,

You are so optimistic and believing that good trumps evil. :innocent:

I love reading your post.

Even though I differ with your opinion!!:seeya:

Thanks!!

score

obmama
07-31-2011, 01:29 PM
I don't trust anything the media writes because each puts its own spin on it. obmama - do u have a video link to the police chief's statement? I trust the videos of where I can actually see & hear what LE is saying and the radioreference archives that was posted several pages up.

I posted the link, possibly thread 3. I remember it was cbs8, who conducted an interview with the chief. The title of the article was about RN's sister rebuttal to suicide.

gemvt
07-31-2011, 01:30 PM
Hi everyone - this is my first post! I too have been fascinated by this case. I have to say that I am of the mind that Rebecca did commit suicide. My thought is that she received a call from JS that Tuesday night that Max was brain dead and that they were going to do an MRI the next morning to confirm, but that essentially at that point it was known that he would not survive. I think it is also possible that JS either behaved as if he was done with her or that he actually said as much...telling her to pack her bags and get out. Even if he accepted that Max's death was the result of an accident, it is such an enormous tragedy that he decided he wouldn't be able to get past it. This news combined with Rebecca's guilt and grief over the death of a loved child drove her to commit suicide in a dramatic and violent manner, probably to send a message and to illustrate her guilt.

DS and JS were, at that point, probably awake for over 30 hours straight and emotionally devastated. I cannot see either of them mustering the strength to either perform or arrange for a murder at that time.

When you look at the overhead photos, it seems clear to me that the table was pulled over to the brick walkway from the grassy area to get Rebecca down. Why would anyone keep a table in that location? It was probably the first thing AS spotted that could allow him to reach her body, so he grabbed it and dragged it to that location.

This is IMO, of course...but to me seems the most realistic scenario, given the current information.

scorekeeper
07-31-2011, 01:34 PM
I think photo Number 3 shows it even clearer. It shows it as if it came off right there where it sits in that same location.

I wonder if that happened from Adam standing on it or maybe he pulled it from another place in the yard and didn't realize he had damaged or broken one of the legs?

IMO

It must have been brought from somewhere else. There are no chairs with the table. Or any I can see in the courtyard...unless it was somewhere near the guest house. I think there was a matching chair on the front porch of the mansion.

Also, RN may have put the table there to stand on before she "hung" herself or AS could have moved it.

Someone said quite awhile back that it was weathered teak. It also appears to have a "broken plank".

mentalsolstice
07-31-2011, 01:37 PM
Inobu, I came here because I was interested in this case and valued everyone's thoughts & opinions. I also value your thoughts & perspective and hope this is NOT your last post.

I've been around Asians all my life and taking what her family says about her religion and when she came to this country from Burma, etc... I feel she would not have committed suicide in the NUDE in this Manner. If she wanted not to upset her family with her phone call the night before, well she didn't think about how finding her in this manner would greatly upset her family and bring shame on the family. That's just me speaking based on my cultural experiences.

BBM. The nudity and the outdoor hanging is what really bothers me as to whether this was a suicide or a homicide. If she was found nude in bed, in the bathroom or elsewhere indoors, I wouldn't be so skeptical. My experience around Asians has been varied...some women are very modest, others not so much. I was also pondering RN's personal beliefs about death and suicide in general, and specifically if she felt guilt or was made to feel guilt over MS's accident.

scorekeeper
07-31-2011, 01:41 PM
Hi everyone - this is my first post! I too have been fascinated by this case. I have to say that I am of the mind that Rebecca did commit suicide. My thought is that she received a call from JS that Tuesday night that Max was brain dead and that they were going to do an MRI the next morning to confirm, but that essentially at that point it was known that he would not survive. I think it is also possible that JS either behaved as if he was done with her or that he actually said as much...telling her to pack her bags and get out. Even if he accepted that Max's death was the result of an accident, it is such an enormous tragedy that he decided he wouldn't be able to get past it. This news combined with Rebecca's guilt and grief over the death of a loved child drove her to commit suicide in a dramatic and violent manner, probably to send a message and to illustrate her guilt.

DS and JS were, at that point, probably awake for over 30 hours straight and emotionally devastated. I cannot see either of them mustering the strength to either perform or arrange for a murder at that time.

When you look at the overhead photos, it seems clear to me that the table was pulled over to the brick walkway from the grassy area to get Rebecca down. Why would anyone keep a table in that location? It was probably the first thing AS spotted that could allow him to reach her body, so he grabbed it and dragged it to that location.

This is IMO, of course...but to me seems the most realistic scenario, given the current information.

Welcome to WS!!

:greetings::welcome:

I am leaning toward your theory being the final conclusion to this case BUT I am not buying it.....:crazy:

4Jacy
07-31-2011, 01:41 PM
Hi everyone - this is my first post! I too have been fascinated by this case. I have to say that I am of the mind that Rebecca did commit suicide. My thought is that she received a call from JS that Tuesday night that Max was brain dead and that they were going to do an MRI the next morning to confirm, but that essentially at that point it was known that he would not survive. I think it is also possible that JS either behaved as if he was done with her or that he actually said as much...telling her to pack her bags and get out. Even if he accepted that Max's death was the result of an accident, it is such an enormous tragedy that he decided he wouldn't be able to get past it. This news combined with Rebecca's guilt and grief over the death of a loved child drove her to commit suicide in a dramatic and violent manner, probably to send a message and to illustrate her guilt.

DS and JS were, at that point, probably awake for over 30 hours straight and emotionally devastated. I cannot see either of them mustering the strength to either perform or arrange for a murder at that time.


When you look at the overhead photos, it seems clear to me that the table was pulled over to the brick walkway from the grassy area to get Rebecca down. Why would anyone keep a table in that location? It was probably the first thing AS spotted that could allow him to reach her body, so he grabbed it and dragged it to that location.

This is IMO, of course...but to me seems the most realistic scenario, given the current information.

Welcome, gemvt! I totally disagree with your theory, but we can agree to disagree, right? I just don't think, being the type of woman Rebecca was, that she would have allowed herself to be seen in such a horrible and gross way. To me this seems like a rage killing.

Also, WHY did AS go to CA? What help was he actually to JS? And when did AS tell his realtor he was going back out on the tugboat? :waitasec:

There are so many questions yet not answered, we need more evidence to be revealed.

defense101
07-31-2011, 01:42 PM
I don't trust anything the media writes because each puts its own spin on it. obmama - do u have a video link to the police chief's statement? I trust the videos of where I can actually see & hear what LE is saying and the radioreference archives that was posted several pages up. Its here, below the first video move the videos along and it will show the press conference. http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?redirected=true

mentalsolstice
07-31-2011, 01:45 PM
It must have been brought from somewhere else. There are no chairs with the table. Or any I can see in the courtyard...unless it was somewhere near the guest house. I think there was a matching chair on the front porch of the mansion.

Also, RN may have put the table there to stand on before she "hung" herself or AS could have moved it.

Someone said quite awhile back that it was weathered teak. It also appears to have a "broken plank".

Actually somewhere back in the thread there was picture of an Adirondack chair that was the same color and had the same weathered look. It appeared to me that it was tucked back on the patio (against the wall) and underneath the balcony.

Rhyme & Reason
07-31-2011, 01:45 PM
Hi everyone - this is my first post! I too have been fascinated by this case. I have to say that I am of the mind that Rebecca did commit suicide. My thought is that she received a call from JS that Tuesday night that Max was brain dead and that they were going to do an MRI the next morning to confirm, but that essentially at that point it was known that he would not survive. I think it is also possible that JS either behaved as if he was done with her or that he actually said as much...telling her to pack her bags and get out. Even if he accepted that Max's death was the result of an accident, it is such an enormous tragedy that he decided he wouldn't be able to get past it. This news combined with Rebecca's guilt and grief over the death of a loved child drove her to commit suicide in a dramatic and violent manner, probably to send a message and to illustrate her guilt.

DS and JS were, at that point, probably awake for over 30 hours straight and emotionally devastated. I cannot see either of them mustering the strength to either perform or arrange for a murder at that time.

When you look at the overhead photos, it seems clear to me that the table was pulled over to the brick walkway from the grassy area to get Rebecca down. Why would anyone keep a table in that location? It was probably the first thing AS spotted that could allow him to reach her body, so he grabbed it and dragged it to that location.

This is IMO, of course...but to me seems the most realistic scenario, given the current information.

Welcome to WS!

:welcome:

arielilane
07-31-2011, 01:49 PM
During that week, I don't think there was a lot of hatred towards Rebecca, with the exception of one person. Suicide is a selfish act. http://www.wuerziworld.de/Smilies/girl/gi85.gif

arielilane
07-31-2011, 01:50 PM
http://www.wuerziworld.de/Smilies/girl/gi82.gifWelcome gemvt!

time
07-31-2011, 01:56 PM
It must have been brought from somewhere else. There are no chairs with the table. Or any I can see in the courtyard...unless it was somewhere near the guest house. I think there was a matching chair on the front porch of the mansion.

Also, RN may have put the table there to stand on before she "hung" herself or AS could have moved it.

Someone said quite awhile back that it was weathered teak. It also appears to have a "broken plank".


Don't know if this is accurate or not, but a while back I posted that someone on another forum said the table under the balcony was not there is in early coverage but was moved there later.

MizStery
07-31-2011, 02:02 PM
Welcome to the forum gemt. I am also totally immersed in this story. This is now my virtual home and you are all my virtual friends. I am worried about Palidine we have not heard from her since yesterday. What if??? Under the guise of a BD dinner her family carried out a Websleuths sleuthing 12step type intervention ...because of her fixation with this case. My husband has been eying me with a worried expression as I sit with my iPad reading and refreshing the page. I am afraid he might be thinking of a Websleuths sleuthing 12step intervention for me. This case has not made me.:crazy: yet.

obmama
07-31-2011, 02:08 PM
Bolded by me. Come to think of it - how could one be "normal, fine" after having a child fall and in the hospital under your watch.

Exactly! Either . . .
*RN's sister is in denial (understandable)?
*RN was in a calm state, often the case when a suicidal person finds a solution?
*RN acted "fine" and said she'd call "tomorrow" to make it look like murder, out of anger or shame?

It's never been made clear who initiated the phone call, RN or her sister?

justice be served
07-31-2011, 02:10 PM
Welcome, gemvt! I totally disagree with your theory, but we can agree to disagree, right? I just don't think, being the type of woman Rebecca was, that she would have allowed herself to be seen in such a horrible and gross way. To me this seems like a rage killing.

Also, WHY did AS go to CA? What help was he actually to JS? And when did AS tell his realtor he was going back out on the tugboat? :waitasec:

There are so many questions yet not answered, we need more evidence to be revealed.
4Jacy - I think you bring up some good questions about AS. I would add the following as well:
1-Was AS close to JS as a brother/confident?
2-Would JS's inner circle/family expect or find it to be a normal thing that AS would come to town as support after MS's accident?
3-If the answer is yes to 1 and 2 above, did AS then remain close to his brother after yet a second tragedy happened or did he head back out of town?

Theforeigner
07-31-2011, 02:15 PM
I agree with several other that suicide is not likely because:

1.Woman VERY seldome choose hanging when they comit suicide.

2.The fact that electrical cord was used to hang her and tie her feet and hands IMO point to that somone, who did NOT belong to the household , bound and hung her, because it IMO point to that it was what was on hand "here and now". If RN had decided to commited suicide by hanging I belive she would have found or bought some rope, and that she would have done it away from the house or at least INSIDE the house, and definitley NOT naked.

3. I would assume that RN or her fiance JB had sleeping pills or other drugs avaible in the house that she could have used to commit suicide so WHY choose hanging? and naked, outside hanging from a balcony?

4. Why no suicide note? why no last text message to a loved one? expressing her remorse and sorrow if unbearable remorse was her motive?

5. If she was THAT devastated, why was she "normal" the evening before when she talked to her sister by phone?

I just can not phantom that this was a suicide.

peace9274
07-31-2011, 02:17 PM
Welcome to the forum gemt. I am also totally immersed in this story. This is now my virtual home and you are all my virtual friends. I am worried about Palidine we have not heard from her since yesterday. What if??? Under the guise of a BD dinner her family carried out an 12step type intervention ...because of her fascination with this case. My husband has been eying me with a worried expression as I sit with my iPad reading and refreshing the page. I am afraid he might be thinking of a 12step intervention for me. This case has not made me.:crazy: yet.


LOL @ MizStery!


:welcome:
gemvt, to WS!

:greetings:

Carrington
07-31-2011, 02:25 PM
Of all places, Rebecca Nalepa's x-husband Neil J Nalepa's native area is Long Island, NY.
At least he graduated in 1993 from High School in Centereach, NY (Long Island) and he has several older relatives on Long island.
ALL his own and his relatives Long island addresses are located in Nassau and Suffolk county.


I´m NOT saying that NJN is connected to the Long Island Serial killer case, I just found it kind of interesting him beeing a native of the two Long Island counties, Nassau and Suffolk, right were the Long island Seral killer case is taking place.

I have a list of the towns in which NJN have listed addresses as well as his relatives. If it´s alowed to post them, and someone want me to post them, please let me know.
I will NOT post street addresses or names, just towns.

She has close friends all over the place,” says Zahau-Loehner. “She was a person who wasn’t afraid to move. If she thinks there is a better chance for her career, she wasn’t afraid to move to another city. She was in Phoenix only the last four years. She was in California and New York.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/27/jonah-shacknai-mansion-deaths-rebecca-zahau-incident-remains-mysterious.html

CuriousAmazon
07-31-2011, 02:46 PM
RN used to attend Calvary Chapel Island of Grace when she lived on Long Island. Someone asked about her religious beliefs. They are having a memorial service for her today. RIP Becky.

CuriousAmazon
07-31-2011, 02:49 PM
Beautiful Pics of RN, posted by church members.

peace9274
07-31-2011, 03:00 PM
Beautiful Pics of RN, posted by church members.

Wow! Thanx, CuriousAmazon, for posting the above photos for us to see.
And for informing us of the memorial service at the church she used to attend, with her ex.

jjenny
07-31-2011, 03:03 PM
Inobu, I came here because I was interested in this case and valued everyone's thoughts & opinions. I also value your thoughts & perspective and hope this is NOT your last post.

I've been around Asians all my life and taking what her family says about her religion and when she came to this country from Burma, etc... I feel she would not have committed suicide in the NUDE in this Manner. If she wanted not to upset her family with her phone call the night before, well she didn't think about how finding her in this manner would greatly upset her family and bring shame on the family. That's just me speaking based on my cultural experiences.

In the photos of her we have seen so far, while she is super fit, and the clothing she wears are form fitting, they are not super revealing. So, I agree, why would she kill herself in the nude and outside? It has to be extremely rare for a woman to commit suicide naked and outside-has it ever happened before at all?

obmama
07-31-2011, 03:14 PM
BBM - ITA! I'm just waiting for LE to officially rule suicide. No matter what, that's what they are going to say.

I like to think not. I can't imagine the medical examiner and three different law enforcement agencies engaged in a cover-up.

Not saying it's impossible. Prior to founding Medicis, JS worked in various government positions, including for DEA. I doubt his big pharm's rapid success in a relatively short period of time was not without a little help from his connections.

Another thing to consider is Medicis stock. I don't know its current position, but it dropped a few points after the news of RN's death. If he was charged with murder, would it mean the death of his company? Shareholders would lose millions.

It's not as if he has immediate family there to run the company. If he had any idea he was a suspect, he'd probably sell out. Last month, he transferred $5 million into a trust fund for his kids. Two weeks ago, he sold and bought back shares in his company, profiting $1.5 million in a day.

Would he get away with murder for economic reasons? I don't know.

MsFacetious
07-31-2011, 03:15 PM
Of all places, Rebecca Nalepa's x-husband Neil J Nalepa's native area is Long Island, NY.
At least he graduated in 1993 from High School in Centereach, NY (Long Island) and he has several older relatives on Long island.
ALL his own and his relatives Long island addresses are located in Nassau and Suffolk county.


I´m NOT saying that NJN is connected to the Long Island Serial killer case, I just found it kind of interesting him beeing a native of the two Long Island counties, Nassau and Suffolk, right were the Long island Seral killer case is taking place.

I have a list of the towns in which NJN have listed addresses as well as his relatives. If it´s alowed to post them, and someone want me to post them, please let me know.
I will NOT post street addresses or names, just towns.

That's interesting... because this occurred to me last night.

Right after it occurred to me that Adam is from Memphis.

As in 2 hours from Holly Bobo.

Not to mention a few other young ladies.

It just hit me when I was standing there... freaked me out. :waitasec:

This video shows RS's who is AS's leasing agent neighbor. He discusses the conversation with AS. The video is on this webpage. http://www.wmctv.com/story/15091608/memphian-discovers-body-in-brothers-san-diego-mansion?clienttype=printable

The reporter states that AS called RS during the interview to say "police are interrogating him about the death of his brother's girlfriend"..."but don't worry I didn't have anything to do with it."

Why did Adam feel the need to call him in the first place?

It isn't like they were going to meet for dinner and Adam had to call and say "Hey, I'm going to have to cancel... my brother's girlfriend kinda died and they are interrogating me about it... but don't worry, I didn't have anything to do with it."

He just called him to tell him that, just because?
Did he happen to mention his nearly dead nephew?
Or did that warrant it's own phone call earlier? :waitasec:

If he never called to tell the guy about Max, but only called to tell him he was being interrogated about a crime he didn't commit...
I would find that rather unusual and abnormal... :waitasec:


That immediately made me think of Nikki Halpin's killer... calling someone during questioning. I can't find an article that talks about this specific part of the case. But while detectives were interviewing him at his home... he called his girlfriend. He told her that he was the main suspect.

He also told her that Nikki had been hit in the head, that she had not been raped and that her boys were not injured. All information that had not been released.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/01/09/Northpinellas/A_light_in_darkness.shtml


This one does talk about the 911 call and how you can hear him talking to her on it.

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/01/21/Northpinellas/Man_indicted_in_bruta.shtml


This episode talked about it... "No Safe Harbor" Season 2, Episode 6

http://press.discovery.com/us/id/programs/nighmare-next-door/

cleo612
07-31-2011, 03:19 PM
I concur..hehehe.

And this statement may be upsetting to some..but some dogs have good sense. If JS was the dogs master and she was yelling at JS ..dog bite.

My dogs would do it in a New York second. Animals are protective.

Now if the dog bit her when she was being a sweetie pie..then that is a whole different issue.

Decades ago (yikes!) when I was a young pre-teen, our family had a sweet little dog. She had the best temperament, was loving to all of my family members...until voices were raised. She stood less than 2 feet tall--she was a Chihuahua-Dachshound mix.

If my mother felt a need to yell at one of my siblings or me, Lucky would spring into action and go on the attack towards my mother. Mom learned quickly that if she wanted to yell at one of us, she either had to put Lucky outside or lock her in a bedroom; if she didn't take those actions, Lucky would jump up and start biting at my mother's arms and legs. Lucky would do the same thing towards anyone who raised their voice--whether it was me or a sibling, or a perfect stranger. The person who was speaking with a raised voice was putting themselves at risk in Lucky's presence.

I can easily see the Shacknai family dog going on the attack to whomever was speaking with a raised voice. I do not believe that their dog had been told to attack Dina; from all accounts Dina was yelling at Jonah and that is when the dog attacked Dina. Their dog sounds just like my dog, Lucky.

justice be served
07-31-2011, 03:30 PM
That is interesting Cleo. But when you said:

"Mom learned quickly that if she wanted to yell at one of us, she either had to put Lucky outside or lock her in a bedroom; if she didn't take those actions, Lucky would jump up and start biting at my mother's arms and legs."

.........Then my thoughts go to the fact that those precautions were pretty obviously not taken by any of the parties based on the injuries shown on DS in the police reports. Not sure why.

Inobu
07-31-2011, 03:49 PM
Inobu, I came here because I was interested in this case and valued everyone's thoughts & opinions. DDIASCI


This case is very interesting hard not to follow.

You guys keep looking but don't "charge in" look at things in detail and look for the truth.

I can't get past the first 15 minutes of the investigation because of the questionable account.

tiresblondy, CuriousAmazon

This is what I have issues with and I know that some here that have issues with my centralizing on a few trivial facts but that is the nature of the beast. It is the trivial facts that are missed by assailants which the investigators find to catch them.

The truth is the truth and has rhyme and reason. A lie is false and deviates from rhyme and reason that is what you key on. You cannot have a lie true but you can have a true lie.

The truth is either in the open or covered by lies. It is up to you to discern if the truth is in the open if not you have to uncover the lies.

In RN’s case the truth is not in the open that is why it is so bazaar. What is covering the truth? That is what you need to look for and remove in order to get to the bottom of her case.

Start from the beginning. Neither of the events has a natural flow based on what was reported.

Inconsistencies

1. 911 call – a women “appeared to be dead”

2. Cutting her down – Adam reportedly cut her down from where she was hanging in an attempt to save her.

Scenario 1 Usage on the term "appeared to be dead"

If the 911 call was made first, then AS made a somewhat acknowledgement that she was dead buy saying “appeared to be dead”. With that said there would have been no reason to cut her down. Let's say there was sign’s of life after the call. Then he would have made an attempt to revive and we would have seen the scarf removed and the body poised for CPR but we didn't.

Question: Was he standing there looking up at the body and reporting the incident to 911? This question is made so you can mentally place yourself in the event. Did he hang up and then cut her down?

if so, he should have positioned the body and started CPR until EMT arrived and they would have taken over.

This was not the case as we can see in the images EMT left the body as is.

Scenario 2

If he cut her down before calling 911 then he would have been in close proximity to her and would have known for sure that she was dead. The comment that she “appeared to be dead” would not have been made in that his revival attempt was futile and he stopped to call 911.

But once again the body position does not reflect a revival attempt by anyone. If RN remotely looked alive they (EMT) would have jumped on her and had her positioned for CRP. That proves that she was far gone when they arrived and negates AS account for cutting her down.

The next factor that indicated that she was far gone was her leg position. The angle of her body and knees were open and should have fell closed if she was placed down before RM - Rigor mortis. If AS cut her down then he had to feel that she was in RM and negates his complete initial account again.

This is just the basic introduction not 15 minutes into the event and it goes from the truth.

This doesn’t say that he did it but it removes creditability to his account of a hanging.

Everyone is taking his word that she was hung or found hanging from the balcony. No one can collaborate that other than AS.

Why are you taking AS word as the truth? Have you ever considered that he was covering something?

Here is the next question that you need to ask your self.

What is on the carpet and picture? Out of all the things to take out of the house they took a picture. What does a picture, have to do with a suicide?
Do you think she wrote her suicide note on the picture? If so LE would have said the have the note. Logic states that there is residue or splatter of some short which opens the possibility that another event occurred in another location.

Criminal want you to believe what they want you to believe. Seek the truth and don't be swayed in your search.

People like RN don't come all the way from Burma to America to commit suicide.

Inobu

Lotta insight in these images. It shows a lot.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?redirected=true

When its said and done I will show you what I saw in the images.

defense101
07-31-2011, 04:07 PM
This case is very interesting hard not to follow.

You guys keep looking but don't "charge in" look at things in detail and look for the truth.

I can't get past the first 15 minutes of the investigation because of the questionable account.

tiresblondy, CuriousAmazon

This is what I have issues with and I know that some here that have issues with my centralizing on a few trivial facts but that is the nature of the beast. It is the trivial facts that are missed by assailants which the investigators find to catch them.

The truth is the truth and has rhyme and reason. A lie is false and deviates from rhyme and reason that is what you key on. You cannot have a lie true but you can have a true lie.

The truth is either in the open or covered by lies. It is up to you to discern if the truth is in the open if not you have to uncover the lies.

In RN’s case the truth is not in the open that is why it is so bazaar. What is covering the truth? That is what you need to look for and remove in order to get to the bottom of her case.

Start from the beginning. Neither of the events has a natural flow based on what was reported.

Inconsistencies

1. 911 call – a women “appeared to be dead”

2. Cutting her down – Adam reportedly cut her down from where she was hanging in an attempt to save her.

Scenario 1 Usage on the term "appeared to be dead"

If the 911 call was made first, then AS made a somewhat acknowledgement that she was dead buy saying “appeared to be dead”. With that said there would have been no reason to cut her down. Let's say there was sign’s of life after the call. Then he would have made an attempt to revive and we would have seen the scarf removed and the body poised for CPR but we didn't.

Question: Was he standing there looking up at the body and reporting the incident to 911? This question is made so you can mentally place yourself in the event. Did he hang up and then cut her down?

if so, he should have positioned the body and started CPR until EMT arrived and they would have taken over.

This was not the case as we can see in the images EMT left the body as is.

Scenario 2

If he cut her down before calling 911 then he would have been in close proximity to her and would have known for sure that she was dead. The comment that she “appeared to be dead” would not have been made in that his revival attempt was futile and he stopped to call 911.

But once again the body position does not reflect a revival attempt by anyone. If RN remotely looked alive they (EMT) would have jumped on her and had her positioned for CRP. That proves that she was far gone when they arrived and negates AS account for cutting her down.

The next factor that indicated that she was far gone was her leg position. The angle of her body and knees were open and should have fell closed if she was placed down before RM - Rigor mortis. If AS cut her down then he had to feel that she was in RM and negates his complete initial account again.

This is just the basic introduction not 15 minutes into the event and it goes from the truth.

This doesn’t say that he did it but it removes creditability to his account of a hanging.

Everyone is taking his word that she was hung or found hanging from the balcony. No one can collaborate that other than AS.

Why are you taking AS word as the truth? Have you ever considered that he was covering something?

Here is the next question that you need to ask your self.

What is on the carpet and picture? Out of all the things to take out of the house they took a picture. What does a picture, have to do with a suicide?
Do you think she wrote her suicide note on the picture? If so LE would have said the have the note. Logic states that there is residue or splatter of some short which opens the possibility that another event occurred in another location.

Criminal want you to believe what they want you to believe. Seek the truth and don't be swayed in your search.

People like RN don't come all the way from Burma to America to commit suicide.

Inobu

Lotta insight in these images. It shows a lot.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?redirected=true What if AS had cut her down before RM set it which would account for the position of the body, but didn't phone 911 until hours later?

Matty29
07-31-2011, 04:12 PM
Welcome, gemvt! I totally disagree with your theory, but we can agree to disagree, right? I just don't think, being the type of woman Rebecca was, that she would have allowed herself to be seen in such a horrible and gross way. To me this seems like a rage killing.

Also, WHY did AS go to CA? What help was he actually to JS? And when did AS tell his realtor he was going back out on the tugboat? :waitasec:

There are so many questions yet not answered, we need more evidence to be revealed.

I agree about the rage.

I think JS and DS found out there was no hope of survival for MS with 100% certainty Tuesday night and MS was kept on Life Support just for harvesting his organs. After hearing this news Tuesday night and in an absolute blind hysterical rage JS who has a temper which was already proven in his previous relationships, dragged RN out of bed and she may have been asleep naked or he told her to take her clothes off to further humiliate her i.e "now your family is going to see you hanging naked from the balcony because you killed my son." I believe MS's death was likely an accident on her watch and JS misplaced his rage because he felt so angry, upset and furious that with all his money he could not save his son and he lost his mind and killed RN.

I think the 'loud party' was JS and RN fighting or more likely JS screaming at her what did she do, tell me what you did and I won't hurt you, tell me how my son really died and I won't hurt you and the more she 1. had no answer as it was an accident or 2. told him the 'truth' i.e "I wasn't watching him, I was doing my hair, I was on the phone," the more enraged JS got. He hog tied her or bound her (we will see what is revealed by LE in time) and tossed her off the balcony. I think RN knew MS was not coming out of the coma and knew that when JS came home at some point because of his temper she feared he might kill her dog out of rage thus the kennel but I do not think she thought he would come after her or she would have left the house.

Why AS was there, could be as simple as his brother told him his son was near death and would he like to pay his last respects while his nephew was technically alive. That AS has been allowed to resume his life tells me he was investigated and is not a POI.

Just my theory. I am also hooked on this case and my theory is what my instinct tells me happened and I could be wrong, time will tell. I do not believe RN committed suicide this looks like an up close and personal rage killing to me of someone totally out of control and grief stricken who struck out at who he was blaming as the reason why his son was dead. As for the mother DS, I don't think it was her for one second bc as a mother she was not leaving her son's bedside for a minute (I think hospital video will prove that in time).

Inobu
07-31-2011, 04:20 PM
What if AS had cut her down before RM set it which would account for the position of the body, but didn't phone 911 until hours later?

If he cut her down before RM the knees would have fell close.

defense101
07-31-2011, 04:25 PM
If he cut her down before RM the knees would have fell close.
Good point...

Inobu
07-31-2011, 04:31 PM
Matty29

You have a good perspective, you just have to apply the character and personalities of the people you are studying into the equation nothing more nothing less.

Inobu

Inobu
07-31-2011, 04:38 PM
What if AS had cut her down before RM set it which would account for the position of the body, but didn't phone 911 until hours later?

Your assumption on a delayed 911 call seems to fit the puzzle in that the music established a time line that the assailant(s) had to avoid. Finding the body too early would have brought up the question of being up at that hour or tying the event with the silencing of the music. Closing the window of event and exposing individuals.

Inobu

scorekeeper
07-31-2011, 04:47 PM
Can someone bring a previous post over to this thread? :tyou:

I don't know how....:waitasec:

Thread 3, page 30, post 729 by Bonepile?

It shows the balcony with the "rope" hanging down; table and RN.

Thanks!!

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 04:50 PM
oceanblueeyes,

You are so optimistic and believing that good trumps evil. :innocent:

I love reading your post.

Even though I differ with your opinion!!:seeya:

Thanks!!

score

LOL! Sorry I had company come in right after I posted that Score and just now came back on.:great:

Thank you for your kind words. I love posting with all posters here.

Perhaps I do refuse to believe evil will triumph over goodness.

I don't know what happened to Rebecca but if someone has taken her precious life from her I must always hold onto the belief that they will pay dearly in our justice system.

I do know that even the rich and powerful can fall. I have seen them do it. I have seen them be convicted and I have seen them go to prison. So I must believe that if anyone (no matter who they are) did this they too will be punished.

And in the end if it is proven to LE this was a tragic suicide then my heart aches for Rebecca's family because losing a loved one this way will forever haunt them.

I am beginning to think whatever happened to Rebecca whether self inflicted or by somone else had been done hours before Adam found her.

IMO

Theforeigner
07-31-2011, 04:51 PM
RN used to attend Calvary Chapel Island of Grace when she lived on Long Island. Someone asked about her religious beliefs. They are having a memorial service for her today. RIP Becky.

OK, so Rebecca ALSO lived on Long Island? Interesting! and thanks you so very mutch for sharing.

This is the address of that church:

Calvary Chapel Island of Grace
Address:‎
1680 Railroad Avenue
Holbrook, NY

Does anyone know the profession/education of Neil Nalepa?

And were and what year Rebecca and Neil Nalepa got married

justice be served
07-31-2011, 04:52 PM
Your assumption on a delayed 911 call seems to fit the puzzle in that the music established a time line that the assailant(s) had to avoid. Finding the body too early would have brought up the question of being up at that hour or tying the event with the silencing of the music. Closing the window of event and exposing individuals.

Inobu

Inobu, I appreciate your depth of analysis every time you post! Just my opinion/theory - could it be that AS was aware of what was going on while the deed was being perpetrated but he was not involved directly - he was awakened perhaps and made aware strictly because he was close on the premises? Maybe AS and the perpetrator then commisserated on what then needed to happen and then Plan B came into play -- and your theory? With blood really thicker than water? Just my humble opinion/thoughts.....

defense101
07-31-2011, 05:03 PM
Can someone bring a previous post over to this thread? :tyou:

I don't know how....:waitasec:

Thread 3, page 30, post 729 by Bonepile?

It shows the balcony with the "rope" hanging down; table and RN.

Thanks!!

I didn't know how to do that either but here are Bonepile's pictures...which should show up if I did this right, thanks Bonepile.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm173/walcatt/PhotoshopScreenSnapz007.jpg

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm173/walcatt/PhotoshopScreenSnapz005-1.jpg

Inobu
07-31-2011, 05:04 PM
Staged event confines the thought pattern in that it preoccupies the mind and confines the mindset.

I'll try to use a little humor to bring a perspective to shocks us into reality.

Do you think the orange cord walked up to RN and say use me. No, someone had to bring the two together. Either RN went to the cord, someone brought the cord to RN or the cord was in the vicinity.

That cord came from some where.

We need to ask ourselves

Where do you think the orange cord would be found.

I think you guys should focus on that. If you think the cord was placed on her feet and hands in the court yard then keep looking in the court yard.

If you think it was placed somewhere else then look for it. If I'm not mistaken some one said there was an addition or something going on in an attic?

attic - construction - tools -

I have my thought I think 85 to 90% I"m on target, well see.

Inobu

I did leave my thoughts here we will see when its said and done.

mentalsolstice
07-31-2011, 05:07 PM
I agree with several other that suicide is not likely because:

1.Woman VERY seldome choose hanging when they comit suicide.

2.The fact that electrical cord was used to hang her and tie her feet and hands IMO point to that somone, who did NOT belong to the household , bound and hung her, because it IMO point to that it was what was on hand "here and now". If RN had decided to commited suicide by hanging I belive she would have found or bought some rope, and that she would have done it away from the house or at least INSIDE the house, and definitley NOT naked.

3. I would assume that RN or her fiance JB had sleeping pills or other drugs avaible in the house that she could have used to commit suicide so WHY choose hanging? and naked, outside hanging from a balcony?

4. Why no suicide note? why no last text message to a loved one? expressing her remorse and sorrow if unbearable remorse was her motive?

5. If she was THAT devastated, why was she "normal" the evening before when she talked to her sister by phone?

I just can not phantom that this was a suicide.

Unfortunately, there are no norms when it comes to suicide. I have 2 family members, one of whom was successful, and the other who made two unsuccessful attempts (unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if another attempt is made within the year). In neither of those cases was a note left behind. Additionally, sometimes there is a great calm before the storm, the person appears normal as they have found the answer to their situation. And sometimes, a person, even women, will resort to a more "violent or painful" method. One friend shot herself point blank in the chest, while another friend blew her husband's head off before she put the gun in her own mouth. Some suicides are well-planned for days or week, others are done on impulse.

Inobu
07-31-2011, 05:08 PM
Inobu, I appreciate your depth of analysis every time you post! Just my opinion/theory - could it be that AS was aware of what was going on while the deed was being perpetrated but he was not involved directly - he was awakened perhaps and made aware strictly because he was close on the premises? Maybe AS and the perpetrator then commisserated on what then needed to happen and then Plan B came into play -- and your theory? With blood really thicker than water? Just my humble opinion/thoughts.....

Yes, it has a high chance IMO.

defense101
07-31-2011, 05:12 PM
Staged event confines the thought pattern in that it preoccupies the mind and confines the mindset.

I'll try to use a little humor to bring a perspective to shocks us into reality.

Do you think the orange cord walked up to RN and say use me. No, someone had to bring the two together. Either RN went to the cord, someone brought the cord to RN or the cord was in the vicinity.

That cord came from some where.

We need to ask ourselves

Where do you think the orange cord would be found.

I think you guys should focus on that. If you think the cord was placed on her feet and hands in the court yard then keep looking in the court yard.

If you think it was placed somewhere else then look for it. If I'm not mistaken some one said there was an addition or something going on in an attic?

attic - construction - tools -

I have my thought I think 85 to 90% I"m on target, well see.

Inobu

I did leave my thoughts here we will see when its said and done.
I found this regarding renovations to the mansion. "He came back again in May seeking changes to the guest house, caretakers quarters and the garage. Those were approved as well."

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/shacknai-renovation-plans-drew-opponents-in-coronado-not-enemies

scorekeeper
07-31-2011, 05:16 PM
I didn't know how to do that either but here are Bonepile's pictures...which should show up if I did this right, thanks Bonepile.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm173/walcatt/PhotoshopScreenSnapz007.jpg

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm173/walcatt/PhotoshopScreenSnapz005-1.jpg

Thank you so much defense101!! :tyou::tyou: Can you tell me how?

by these pictures I could see AS standing on the table to cut RN down, jumping down and turn toward the grass and then walking a few steps to lay her down. I think he realized when he went to cut her down that she was deceased...but continued with his initial plan (get her down and start life saving methods)

If this is a staged scene then 1 of 2 things happened:

AS did this to RN

AS was involved in the crime/staging

I don't know why I keep going back to these pictures. What am I missing or looking for?

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 05:19 PM
I agree about the rage.

I think JS and DS found out there was no hope of survival for MS with 100% certainty Tuesday night and MS was kept on Life Support just for harvesting his organs. After hearing this news Tuesday night and in an absolute blind hysterical rage JS who has a temper which was already proven in his previous relationships, dragged RN out of bed and she may have been asleep naked or he told her to take her clothes off to further humiliate her i.e "now your family is going to see you hanging naked from the balcony because you killed my son." I believe MS's death was likely an accident on her watch and JS misplaced his rage because he felt so angry, upset and furious that with all his money he could not save his son and he lost his mind and killed RN.

I think the 'loud party' was JS and RN fighting or more likely JS screaming at her what did she do, tell me what you did and I won't hurt you, tell me how my son really died and I won't hurt you and the more she 1. had no answer as it was an accident or 2. told him the 'truth' i.e "I wasn't watching him, I was doing my hair, I was on the phone," the more enraged JS got. He hog tied her or bound her (we will see what is revealed by LE in time) and tossed her off the balcony. I think RN knew MS was not coming out of the coma and knew that when JS came home at some point because of his temper she feared he might kill her dog out of rage thus the kennel but I do not think she thought he would come after her or she would have left the house.

Why AS was there, could be as simple as his brother told him his son was near death and would he like to pay his last respects while his nephew was technically alive. That AS has been allowed to resume his life tells me he was investigated and is not a POI.

Just my theory. I am also hooked on this case and my theory is what my instinct tells me happened and I could be wrong, time will tell. I do not believe RN committed suicide this looks like an up close and personal rage killing to me of someone totally out of control and grief stricken who struck out at who he was blaming as the reason why his son was dead. As for the mother DS, I don't think it was her for one second bc as a mother she was not leaving her son's bedside for a minute (I think hospital video will prove that in time).

I have read a lot about sociopaths/psychopaths over the last decade since so many criminal defendants have shown those traits.

During my research on the subject I found out that most of them do NOT become murderers but instead they can become POWERFUL CEOs of large companies or be very successful in sales making millions each year. The reasons given is they are self driven to achieve at all costs. They have no compassion in their hearts for their employees. They are ruthless. Employees have one purpose only and that is to make the psychopath look good at all times.

Also they do not have attachments to their children such as love and true bonding BUT do see the children as extensions of themselves ONLY! So children are important but for all the wrong reasons. The child is an ornament that fulfills what they perceive they are entitled to have all to make themselves look better. So if the child is lost it really isn't about the loss of the child so much but about the psychopath feeling outrage that something belonging to them has been taken.

If they ever believe someone is not worthy to be in their social selected unit and blame them for something that has happened that placed the sociopath in a bad light the socio will banish them with a vengence.

So I have to admit when I heard that Jonah was a CEO I pondered these thoughts.

IMO

Paladine
07-31-2011, 05:24 PM
Hi everyone - this is my first post! I too have been fascinated by this case. I have to say that I am of the mind that Rebecca did commit suicide. My thought is that she received a call from JS that Tuesday night that Max was brain dead and that they were going to do an MRI the next morning to confirm, but that essentially at that point it was known that he would not survive. I think it is also possible that JS either behaved as if he was done with her or that he actually said as much...telling her to pack her bags and get out. Even if he accepted that Max's death was the result of an accident, it is such an enormous tragedy that he decided he wouldn't be able to get past it. This news combined with Rebecca's guilt and grief over the death of a loved child drove her to commit suicide in a dramatic and violent manner, probably to send a message and to illustrate her guilt.

DS and JS were, at that point, probably awake for over 30 hours straight and emotionally devastated. I cannot see either of them mustering the strength to either perform or arrange for a murder at that time.

When you look at the overhead photos, it seems clear to me that the table was pulled over to the brick walkway from the grassy area to get Rebecca down. Why would anyone keep a table in that location? It was probably the first thing AS spotted that could allow him to reach her body, so he grabbed it and dragged it to that location. This is IMO, of course...but to me seems the most realistic scenario, given the current information.

Welcome. :)

Repectfully bolded by me

The problem is the only confirmation we have that Rebecca was 'suspended', and AS cut her down, is AS.

A possible coverup is weighing heavy on my mind...I need more than just AS to tell me that.

(and thanks for your most entertaining post re; websleuths intervention Mizstery, lol...you weren't far from the truth, lol, I'm still sneaking in post time, they want me to DO things with them, lol, as in leave the computer and case ;)...and thanks to peace for bringing it to my attention; made my day :)

4Jacy
07-31-2011, 05:27 PM
I agree about the rage.

I think JS and DS found out there was no hope of survival for MS with 100% certainty Tuesday night and MS was kept on Life Support just for harvesting his organs. After hearing this news Tuesday night and in an absolute blind hysterical rage JS who has a temper which was already proven in his previous relationships, dragged RN out of bed and she may have been asleep naked or he told her to take her clothes off to further humiliate her i.e "now your family is going to see you hanging naked from the balcony because you killed my son."

BBM[/B]

I totally agree with your theory, which is also mine. He was totally out of control and he wanted to humiliate and frighten her and then kill her. He probably had her tied to the chair and made her watch him prepare the noose he was going to put around her neck.

I believe MS's death was likely an accident on her watch and JS misplaced his rage because he felt so angry, upset and furious that with all his money he could not save his son and he lost his mind and killed RN.

I think the 'loud party' was JS and RN fighting or more likely JS screaming at her what did she do, tell me what you did and I won't hurt you, tell me how my son really died and I won't hurt you and the more she 1. had no answer as it was an accident or 2. told him the 'truth' i.e "I wasn't watching him, I was doing my hair, I was on the phone," the more enraged JS got. He hog tied her or bound her (we will see what is revealed by LE in time) and tossed her off the balcony. I think RN knew MS was not coming out of the coma and knew that when JS came home at some point because of his temper she feared he might kill her dog out of rage thus the kennel but I do not think she thought he would come after her or she would have left the house.


[B]BBM
I never did understand why she would have kennelled the dog. I guess that's a fairly good reason. However, if she thought JS would be insane enough to kill her dog, wouldn't she want to remove herself from the premises also? UNLESS the dog was the cause of the accident.

Why AS was there, could be as simple as his brother told him his son was near death and would he like to pay his last respects while his nephew was technically alive. That AS has been allowed to resume his life tells me he was investigated and is not a POI.

Just my theory. I am also hooked on this case and my theory is what my instinct tells me happened and I could be wrong, time will tell. I do not believe RN committed suicide this looks like an up close and personal rage killing to me of someone totally out of control and grief stricken who struck out at who he was blaming as the reason why his son was dead. As for the mother DS, I don't think it was her for one second bc as a mother she was not leaving her son's bedside for a minute (I think hospital video will prove that in time).

[Really appreciate your post, Matty. But just wait, money talks. Remember the OJ case, the William Kennedy Smith case, et al. There is too much money involved to let this ship sink. :banghead:

Paladine
07-31-2011, 05:31 PM
Thank you so much defense101!! :tyou::tyou: Can you tell me how?

by these pictures I could see AS standing on the table to cut RN down, jumping down and turn toward the grass and then walking a few steps to lay her down. I think he realized when he went to cut her down that she was deceased...but continued with his initial plan (get her down and start life saving methods)

If this is a staged scene then 1 of 2 things happened:

AS did this to RN

AS was involved in the crime/staging
I don't know why I keep going back to these pictures. What am I missing or looking for?

We need autopsy reports. I'm not sure she was hanging, how she was hanging, dead before hanging, or just thrown from the balcony and made to look like a 'hanging'...

Thus far, my vote goes to the bolded option...

RBBM

Bonepile
07-31-2011, 05:40 PM
Thanks Defense101 and Scorekeeper .. Just arrived home from work and see that the photos were transferred. Wish they were better quality, but ...

Way back on July 21st I sent an email to a friend ...

1. Boy in girlfriend's care falls down stairs of mansion and is declared at hospital to be "brain dead"
2. Father in violent rage confronts girlfriend who was taking care of kid at time of incident.
3. Father strangles girlfriend
4. Father asks for brother's assistance to rig body as suicide which they do
5. Brother waits x number of hours for Father to establish alibi at hospital waiting as his son is passing away
6. Brother calls police while father is at hospital and police arrive

... and then on July 28th I sent him another email ...


JS at the hospital or at the house screaming at her "if my son dies you are responsible, and you know I will kill you" and she realized with his history of aggression that he might just do what he threatened to do, and that because of his feelings their life together was now over with not another chance in this world to regain him or his love, and in a panic she did herself in?


I am not sure even to this day which is true, but I will patiently wait and see what the results of all the tests are .. so we wait.

scorekeeper
07-31-2011, 05:45 PM
JS picked Ocean (the dog) up from the kennel and took him/her back to AZ with him. I can't find the link now...

Someone had asked about Sitrick and Company clients (PR company).......it easier to say they don't represent me than to list their clients!!

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

http://sitrick.com/practice/client-list

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 05:47 PM
Thanks Defense101 and Scorekeeper .. Just arrived home from work and see that the photos were transferred. Wish they were better quality, but ...

Way back in July 21st I sent an email to a friend ...


1. Boy in girlfriend's care falls down stairs of mansion and is declared at hospital to be "brain dead"
2. Father in violent rage confronts girlfriend who was taking care of kid at time of incident.
3. Father strangles girlfriend
4. Father asks for brother's assistance to rig body as suicide which they do
5. Brother waits x number of hours for Father to establish alibi at hospital waiting as his son is passing away
6. Brother calls police while father is at hospital and police arrive

... and then on July 28th I sent him another email ...


JS at the hospital or at the house screaming at her "if my son dies you are responsible, and you know I will kill you" and she realized with his history of aggression that he might just do what he threatened to do, and that because of his feelings their life together was now over with not another chance in this world to regain him or his love, and in a panic she did herself in?


I am not sure even to this day which is true, but I will patiently wait and see what the results of all the tests are .. so we wait.

That is pretty much where I stand too, Bonepile.

It could be either way.

I also will wait... although anxously... for some type of new information from LE.

IMO

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 05:48 PM
Unfortunately, there are no norms when it comes to suicide. I have 2 family members, one of whom was successful, and the other who made two unsuccessful attempts (unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if another attempt is made within the year). In neither of those cases was a note left behind. Additionally, sometimes there is a great calm before the storm, the person appears normal as they have found the answer to their situation. And sometimes, a person, even women, will resort to a more "violent or painful" method. One friend shot herself point blank in the chest, while another friend blew her husband's head off before she put the gun in her own mouth. Some suicides are well-planned for days or week, others are done on impulse.

Have the details surrounding Max's fall been released to the public? If her death was a suicide then she felt in some way responsible and maybe she was. The most bizarre aspect of this is the loud party while the boy lay dying in the hospital. I can see such a callous move would enrage either of the boy's parents.

Matty29
07-31-2011, 05:54 PM
I have read a lot about sociopaths/psychopaths over the last decade since so many criminal defendants have shown those traits.

During my research on the subject I found out that most of them do NOT become murderers but instead they can become POWERFUL CEOs of large companies or be very successful in sales making millions each year. The reasons given is they are self driven to achieve at all costs. They have no compassion in their hearts for their employees. They are ruthless. Employees have one purpose only and that is to make the psychopath look good at all times.

Also they do not have attachments to their children such as love and true bonding BUT do see the children as extensions of themselves ONLY! So children are important but for all the wrong reasons. The child is an ornament that fulfills what they perceive they are entitled to have all to make themselves look better. So if the child is lost it really isn't about the loss of the child so much but about the psychopath feeling outrage that something belonging to them has been taken.

If they ever believe someone is not worthy to be in their social selected unit and blame them for something that has happened that placed the sociopath in a bad light the socio will banish them with a vengence.

So I have to admit when I heard that Jonah was a CEO I pondered these thoughts.

IMO


My Father is one of those CEO's...I know the type very well...

My Father's son did die (my brother) not from a murder but from a long term terminal illness he was born with. We knew when he was 14 months old he would likely not make it into his teens, (he died at 12 years old). My Father has never spoken his name and if you mention my brother he has to leave the room, he simply cannot handle the emotion of the whole ordeal.

Now, I know my Father so well, and I know the narcissistic personality so well, that if he could have, if it would have been an accident on his second wife's watch, well his temper is horrifying and I can see something like what happened to RN on my Dad's 2nd wife if one of us kids died on her watch.

Because JS was older and more established than when he was married to his first wife it seems the more wives they have they more impatient they become with them, so that RN was 'just a girlfriend' probably meant he had little to no respect for her anyway thus it was easy to become furious with her and toss her over the balcony...

Don't think we will see justice for RN here bc of his money tho. Time will tell. I could be totally off base and it was a suicide and I have never known anyone to have committed suicide so I have no idea how a person can be fine one minute and kill themselves the next, but I know from what I read that that is very possible. In this case, I just don't believe it though.

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 05:54 PM
That is pretty much where I stand too, Bonepile.

It could be either way.

I also will wait... although anxously... for some type of new information from LE.

IMO

I'm curious why you think the boy's father rather than his mother might be responsible for Rebecca's death.

Paladine
07-31-2011, 06:01 PM
RN used to attend Calvary Chapel Island of Grace when she lived on Long Island. Someone asked about her religious beliefs. They are having a memorial service for her today. RIP Becky.

A youtube video I found from this Churches baptisims...I loved the song, titled: Bring Me To Life...and the images...I had full immersion baptisim in a lake as an Adult...to belong to this church, and for them to post such a memorial, it makes me feel that Rebecca had some strong spiritual beliefs...

I am begininng to feel very connected to this victim...as it always goes, eh, peeps? ...at least for me...RIP, Rebecca...and, if I may say, may God cradle her gently in His arms...

&#x202a;Calvary Chapel Island of Grace 2007 Baptism&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube

defense101
07-31-2011, 06:02 PM
JS picked Ocean (the dog) up from the kennel and took him/her back to AZ with him. I can't find the link now...

Someone had asked about Sitrick and Company clients (PR company).......it easier to say they don't represent me than to list their clients!!

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

http://sitrick.com/practice/client-list Their client list is impressive, and I found this interesting in their list

REPUTATION MANAGEMENT

Sitrick And Company has strong reputation management capabilities — and a proven track record of both creating positive images for new or relatively unknown companies and rebuilding the reputations of established firms that find themselves in challenging circumstances.

Clients benefit from our high-profile work. Because we are gatekeepers to some of the biggest news stories in the country, we enjoy unsurpassed access to the media — a vital component in the success of any reputation management or crisis communications program.

scorekeeper
07-31-2011, 06:14 PM
http://www.10news.com/news/28566086/detail.html

Last Wednesday morning, Jonah Shacknai's brother, Adam, called 911 to report he had discovered 32-year-old Rebecca Zahau critically injured at the home. Police officers arrived to find Zahau lifeless on a lawn behind the 27-room main residence on the property

Adam Shacknai told investigators he found Zahau hanging from a second-floor bedroom balcony over a central courtyard and cut the rope or cord attached to her neck to get her down, Curran said

BBM

Inobu
07-31-2011, 06:20 PM
I don't know why I keep going back to these pictures. What am I missing or looking for?

Because you cannot see the truth in what is said verses what you see.

Everyone is all over the place because the scene is all over the place.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm173/walcatt/PhotoshopScreenSnapz007.jpg

Just think about it.

Case 1 Balcony Jump

1. Why tie the rope on the bottom rung of the balcony. Top rung easier and makes the required length shorter. The rope almost doubles in length on the bottom rung because you need enough rope to allow you to move around on the balcony, put the noose around your neck, tie your own hands behind your back,stand up and flip yourself over the rail to your death.

This is what they are having you believe she done from the balcony.

Case 2 Ground level jump

2. Run upstairs to the balcony tie the rope on the bottom rung drop the rope down. Run down, climb on the table put the noose on, tie your own hands behind your back jump off the table and into the wall.

Then AS walks up see RN. Call 911 reports a woman hung that appears dead. Moves the table beneath the balcony to the wall, pulls out the knife or scissors, Cuts her down to reviver her, carrier her to the grass. Don't attempt to reviver her, Move the table back on the side walk in the standing position and wait for EMT.

This is what you believe.....

Please try this. Have someone in your family to play dead and you move them from the floor to the couch just to see how hard it is to move dead weight.

And you believe he cut her down with the items in the picture above by him self.

Just look at the table. why move the table back to the walkway when it is out of the way against the wall? It does not make sense the only reason is you want it to look a certain way. Staging..

Just so many factor that points to staging...........

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 06:21 PM
I'm curious why you think the boy's father rather than his mother might be responsible for Rebecca's death.

I am not really sure who is responsible for Rebecca's death. This very well could turnout to be a bizarre suicide.

I am not firmly thinking Jonah did this or even Dina and I see no motive for Adam to harm Rebecca.

But as far as speculation goes...........I think both Jonah and Dina could have equal and same like motives if either one blamed Rebecca for Maxie's death.

They both seem to have anger problems imo.

What I meant by "either way" is it could be a suicide or homicide.

IMO

Paladine
07-31-2011, 06:23 PM
Their client list is impressive, and I found this interesting in their list

REPUTATION MANAGEMENT
Sitrick And Company has strong reputation management capabilities — and a proven track record of both creating positive images for new or relatively unknown companies and rebuilding the reputations of established firms that find themselves in challenging circumstances.

Clients benefit from our high-profile work. Because we are gatekeepers to some of the biggest news stories in the country, we enjoy unsurpassed access to the media — a vital component in the success of any reputation management or crisis communications program.



respectfully red-ed by me

Great post...factual and succinct. The MSM is owned or so claims this PR company, in so many words...imo.

Justice is not always equal, imo. Power and Money rule. WE need, in our own little ways, need to change that, imo.

I really hope I'm being paraniod and I hope being I'm cynical and that all goes right and just in this case...

I hope some people who may know something have courage, in spite of fear, and tell the truth, offer what they know...that's how they can fight for justice.

4Jacy
07-31-2011, 06:35 PM
My Father is one of those CEO's...I know the type very well...

My Father's son did die (my brother) not from a murder but from a long term terminal illness he was born with. We knew when he was 14 months old he would likely not make it into his teens, (he died at 12 years old). My Father has never spoken his name and if you mention my brother he has to leave the room, he simply cannot handle the emotion of the whole ordeal.

Now, I know my Father so well, and I know the narcissistic personality so well, that if he could have, if it would have been an accident on his second wife's watch, well his temper is horrifying and I can see something like what happened to RN on my Dad's 2nd wife if one of us kids died on her watch.

Because JS was older and more established than when he was married to his first wife it seems the more wives they have they more impatient they become with them, so that RN was 'just a girlfriend' probably meant he had little to no respect for her anyway thus it was easy to become furious with her and toss her over the balcony...

Don't think we will see justice for RN here bc of his money tho. Time will tell. I could be totally off base and it was a suicide and I have never known anyone to have committed suicide so I have no idea how a person can be fine one minute and kill themselves the next, but I know from what I read that that is very possible. In this case, I just don't believe it though.

Thank you again Matty for your very insightful post. I am sorry about your brother, and feel for you what you went through with your father. Life isn't fair, and I'm grateful we all have this forum to share and vent. God bless you!

jjenny
07-31-2011, 06:35 PM
respectfully red-ed by me

Great post...factual and succinct. The MSM is owned or so claims this PR company, in so many words...imo.

Justice is not always equal, imo. Power and Money rule. WE need, in our own little ways, need to change that, imo.

I really hope I'm being paraniod and I hope being I'm cynical and that all goes right and just in this case...

I hope some people who may know something have courage, in spite of fear, and tell the truth, offer what they know...that's how they can fight for justice.

There sure haven't been much info about this story lately. I guess "gatekeeping" is working.

pferrin
07-31-2011, 06:37 PM
Have the details surrounding Max's fall been released to the public? If her death was a suicide then she felt in some way responsible and maybe she was. The most bizarre aspect of this is the loud party while the boy lay dying in the hospital. I can see such a callous move would enrage either of the boy's parents.

Welcome MyBelle. No autopsy eport has been released on Maxies death. Apparently there was not a party..but it has been said(rumor?) that there was loud music around 100am. Could this loud music have been used to cover a murder. That is what I believe.

Again Welcome.

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 06:37 PM
I am not really sure who is responsible for Rebecca's death. This very well could turnout to be a bizarre suicide.

I am not firmly thinking Jonah did this or even Dina and I see no motive for Adam to harm Rebecca.

But as far as speculation goes...........I think both Jonah and Dina could have equal and same like motives if either one blamed Rebecca for Maxie's death.

They both seem to have anger problems imo.

What I meant by "either way" is it could be a suicide or homicide.

IMO

ITA. If either blamed her for Max's death then I don't see Jonah wanting Rebecca to continue living at that house and a reaction would be to tell her to get her stuff out. Her reaction was to have a party. To me, this is a suicide Rebecca staged to look like a homicide.

jjenny
07-31-2011, 06:37 PM
I want to thank everyone again for trying to help me understand the photos more.

I just think we are missing something.

If Adam's story just didn't add up why would LE a week later tell a local reporter they were leaning toward a suicide and saying there is documentation that people do bind their hands and feet up before they commit suicide? On a link already posted.

It just seems to me these 15 homicide detectives would know if what Adam said rang true based on the scene.

The problem we have with really no sound conclusive evidence of what happened or how Adam cut her down.

Yet, Adam is allowed to leave and go back to his home very early after Rebecca's death. His story had to make sense to LE about what he found and what he did.

IMO

Do we know when AS left? Did he stay for Max's funeral?

jjenny
07-31-2011, 06:40 PM
ITA. If either blamed her for Max's death then I don't see Jonah wanting Rebecca to continue living at that house and a reaction would be to tell her to get her stuff out. Her reaction was to have a party. To me, this is a suicide Rebecca staged to look like a homicide.

There was no party. From an "anonymous source" it was loud music, not a party.

jstwondering
07-31-2011, 06:40 PM
I have read a lot about sociopaths/psychopaths over the last decade since so many criminal defendants have shown those traits.

During my research on the subject I found out that most of them do NOT become murderers but instead they can become POWERFUL CEOs of large companies or be very successful in sales making millions each year. The reasons given is they are self driven to achieve at all costs. They have no compassion in their hearts for their employees. They are ruthless. Employees have one purpose only and that is to make the psychopath look good at all times.

Also they do not have attachments to their children such as love and true bonding BUT do see the children as extensions of themselves ONLY! So children are important but for all the wrong reasons. The child is an ornament that fulfills what they perceive they are entitled to have all to make themselves look better. So if the child is lost it really isn't about the loss of the child so much but about the psychopath feeling outrage that something belonging to them has been taken.

If they ever believe someone is not worthy to be in their social selected unit and blame them for something that has happened that placed the sociopath in a bad light the socio will banish them with a vengence.

So I have to admit when I heard that Jonah was a CEO I pondered these thoughts.

IMO

BBM Wow, just wow. You are reading my thoughts. People that are not actually familiar with a sociopath would probably think that they don't exist unless they are in prison, but there are thousands of them walking around us.

I would also add, in addition to your brilliant post above, that sociopaths act differently on the outside depending on who they are with. They can mirror a person and become exactly what their prey wants them to be. THAT is why they do become so successful as CEO's, politicians, salespersons, etc. Most people just feel so special when they are in their presence. (Until they are done with you... then not so much...)

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 06:42 PM
Welcome MyBelle. No autopsy eport has been released on Maxies death. Apparently there was not a party..but it has been said(rumor?) that there was loud music around 100am. Could this loud music have been used to cover a murder. That is what I believe.

Again Welcome.

Thank you. I look forward to the autopsy report. In the photo of the stairway that I saw--which was an older photo--those steps were plushly carpeted. I'm having trouble understanding how it is that the child suffered fatal injuries.

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 06:46 PM
There was no party. From an "anonymous source" it was loud music, not a party.

Music loud enough to disturb others is intentional in order to attract attention, imo. Murderers don't usually turn up the music to disturb the neighbors, which is why I think this was a suicide. We'll see.

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 06:50 PM
ITA. If either blamed her for Max's death then I don't see Jonah wanting Rebecca to continue living at that house and a reaction would be to tell her to get her stuff out. Her reaction was to have a party. To me, this is a suicide Rebecca staged to look like a homicide.

I do think that is very good reasoning.

And I read somewhere (please don't ask me for a link lol) that Jonah is very superstitious so he may think that Rebecca and his love had been tainted/marked due to Maxie's death and also it may make him never live in the mansion again due to Maxie falling there and tragically dying.

Your last sentence is very thought provoking and interesting indeed. Yes, what if this was Rebecca's way of getting back at Jonah? I do think sometimes the location of the suicide is done to make a specific statement.

IMO

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 06:53 PM
Music loud enough to disturb others is intentional in order to attract attention, imo. Murderers don't usually turn up the music to disturb the neighbors, which is why I think this was a suicide. We'll see.

That does make sense. A murderer sure wouldn't want to draw attention to the mansion where LE could be summoned.

IMO

4Jacy
07-31-2011, 06:53 PM
JS picked Ocean (the dog) up from the kennel and took him/her back to AZ with him. I can't find the link now...

Someone had asked about Sitrick and Company clients (PR company).......it easier to say they don't represent me than to list their clients!!

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

http://sitrick.com/practice/client-list

Dear God, I hope that dog is okay. Does anyone know? txs

lauriej
07-31-2011, 06:54 PM
This video shows RS's who is AS's leasing agent neighbor. He discusses the conversation with AS. The video is on this webpage. http://www.wmctv.com/story/15091608/memphian-discovers-body-in-brothers-san-diego-mansion?clienttype=printable

The reporter states that AS called RS during the interview to say "police are interrogating him about the death of his brother's girlfriend"..."but don't worry I didn't have anything to do with it."




Why did Adam feel the need to call him in the first place?

It isn't like they were going to meet for dinner and Adam had to call and say "Hey, I'm going to have to cancel... my brother's girlfriend kinda died and they are interrogating me about it... but don't worry, I didn't have anything to do with it."

He just called him to tell him that, just because?
Did he happen to mention his nearly dead nephew?
Or did that warrant it's own phone call earlier? :waitasec:



..i just listened to the video, adam didn't call during the interview with RS...

reporter janice broach: "After I talked with robert sanders, adam shacknai called him from san diego and told him police are interrogating him about the death of his brother's g/f but he said "don't worry i didn't have anything to do with it".

..of course she doesn't say what else adam said ( other than the juicy sound-bite tidbit, as reporters are prone to do ) to his neighbor/leasing agent robert.

..it could have been ----hey robert, just calling to let you know what's going on here---since you've probably seen it all over the news. yeah, LE questioned me since i was the one that found her, don't worry, i didn't have anything to do with it. i'll be back in memphis tomorrow--i'll talk to you then.

..i'm really hopeful that tomorrow we get some new info from LE to go on.

jjenny
07-31-2011, 06:57 PM
Music loud enough to disturb others is intentional in order to attract attention, imo. Murderers don't usually turn up the music to disturb the neighbors, which is why I think this was a suicide. We'll see.
And why exactly would a suicidal person want to play loud music to attract attention? Especially one determined to commit suicide? And she had to be determined if we are to believe she bound her arms and feet and then hang herself. And by the way, loud music could be used to mask any unwanted noise such as screaming.

jjenny
07-31-2011, 06:59 PM
That does make sense. A murderer sure wouldn't want to draw attention to the mansion where LE could be summoned.

IMO

And a woman determined to carry out a suicide would? For what purpose?

jjenny
07-31-2011, 07:01 PM
I do think that is very good reasoning.

And I read somewhere (please don't ask me for a link lol) that Jonah is very superstitious so he may think that Rebecca and his love had been tainted/marked due to Maxie's death and also it may make him never live in the mansion again due to Maxie falling there and tragically dying.

Your last sentence is very thought provoking and interesting indeed. Yes, what if this was Rebecca's way of getting back at Jonah? I do think sometimes the location of the suicide is done to make a specific statement.

IMO

Honestly there are much better way for a woman to get back at the b/f than killing herself. If she trashed the whole place then left I would understand that. How is killing herself going to get back at him?

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 07:03 PM
And why exactly would a suicidal person want to play loud music to attract attention? Especially one determined to commit suicide? And she had to be determined if we are to believe she bound her arms and feet and then hang herself. And by the way, loud music could be used to mask any unwanted noise such as screaming.

A murder could silence screams a heck of a lot faster than finding something to play music and turning it on. Maybe she wasn't really suicidal and wanted to be found and point the finger at Max's parents? I think the answer to the riddle lies in Max's death and what actually caused it and who was responsible. If his death was a result of Rebecca's negligence, she'd be prosecuted. jmo.

scorekeeper
07-31-2011, 07:03 PM
((((Matty))))

Thank you for sharing. You offered great insight!

:tyou::tyou:

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 07:04 PM
And a woman determined to carry out a suicide would? For what purpose?

I am not sure what you mean, jjenny.

A lot of people who commit suicide are under the influence of drugs or alcohol before they complete it. In fact if they have decided this is what they are going to do they can even be upbeat right before it happens because they feel a sense of relief that it is all planned out and soon will be over.

So yes, I can see Rebecca drinking and turning her favorite music up for one last time.

IMO

jjenny
07-31-2011, 07:05 PM
A murder could silence screams a heck of a lot faster than finding something to play music and turning it on. Maybe she wasn't really suicidal and wanted to be found and point the finger at Max's parents? I think the answer to the riddle lies in Max's death and what actually caused it and who was responsible. If his death was a result of Rebecca's negligence, she'd be prosecuted. jmo.

Prosecuted? If the child fell down the stairs? Frankly that is absurd. Police had viewed that case as a tragic accident, and never suggested anything about prosecuting anyone.

jjenny
07-31-2011, 07:06 PM
I am not sure what you mean, jjenny.

A lot of people who commit suicide are under the influence of drugs or alcohol before they complete it. In fact if they have decided this is what they are going to do they can even be upbeat right before it happens because they feel a sense of relief that it is all planned out and soon will be over.

So yes, I can see Rebecca drinking and turning her favorite music up for one last time.

IMO

How exactly would a drunk person be able to bind her hands behind her back with cord, bind her feet with cord, and then manage to hang herself? People who commit suicide drunk might be able to shoot themselves or take pills. How am I supposed to believe that a drunk person would be able to carry out the gymnastic maneuvers required of someone to commit suicide by hanging with arms and feet bound?

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 07:11 PM
Prosecuted? If the child fell down the stairs? Frankly that is absurd. Police had viewed that case as a tragic accident, and never suggested anything about prosecuting anyone.

Absurd? There is no autopsy report released for Max; no manner or cause of death released. The deaths of children resulting from abuse or neglect ARE prosecuted.

jjenny
07-31-2011, 07:14 PM
Absurd? There is no autopsy report released for Max; no manner or cause of death released. The deaths of children resulting from abuse or neglect ARE prosecuted.

I believe police are only investigating Max's death because of RN's death. Had RN not died in such a manner, noting to suggest police would view Max's death anything other than tragic accident. Let alone prosecute anyone for it. There probably wouldn't even be an autopsy if RN did not die. Especially considering Max died in a hospital and his organs were donated.

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 07:18 PM
I believe police are only investigating Max's death because of RN's death. Had RN not died in such a manner, noting to suggest police would view Max's death anything other than tragic accident. Let alone prosecute anyone for it.

And I believe police were investigating Max's death before Rebecca's death. I haven't heard of too many children his age dying after a fall down carpeted stairs. It's suspicious, imo.

Paladine
07-31-2011, 07:19 PM
Music loud enough to disturb others is intentional in order to attract attention, imo. Murderers don't usually turn up the music to disturb the neighbors, which is why I think this was a suicide. We'll see.

Loud music could be used by someone to disguise 'noise' they didn't want to hear, possibly...and, if someone was into, let's say, "loud sex"...maybe a housemate might turn up the music thinking it's no more than 'Adult-play', shall we say? Realizing later, that it was much more...

Many possiblilties, imo...but, imo, suicide is not one of them.

A different case:

Morris told police how she turned up music to drown out the noise as she heard Adam being strangled to death in a neighbouring room by Barnett.Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-203216/Jury-returns-torture-murder-trial.html#ixzz1Tj9gY8fq

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 07:21 PM
Honestly there are much better way for a woman to get back at the b/f than killing herself. If she trashed the whole place then left I would understand that. How is killing herself going to get back at him?

Well that is a given and we could say that about every suicide that is done because of a relationship that went sour but it does happen unfortunately.

It is according to what the relationship meant to the person and how gravely they think the relationship has been marred and if it has left them in pain or very angry, I would think. Imo, it impossible to get into the mind of one who contemplates suicide to understand exactly why they would go to such extremes unless they were plagued with serious health issues that they know weren't going to get any better. Most suicides leave family wrestling with the 'whys' for the rest of their lives.

Suicides don't really solve anything imo. Just a permanent solution for a temporary problem, imo.

IMO

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 07:21 PM
Loud music could be used by someone to disguise 'noise' they didn't want to hear, possibly...and, if someone was into, let's say. "loud sex"...maybe a housemate might turn up the music thinking it's no more than 'Adult-play', shall we say? Realizing later, that it was much more...

Many possiblilties, imo...but, imo, suicide is not one of them.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-203216/Jury-returns-torture-murder-trial.html#ixzz1Tj9gY8fq

Suicide has been mentioned by police as a possibility. I think they know more facts to base that one than we do.

defense101
07-31-2011, 07:23 PM
And I believe police were investigating Max's death before Rebecca's death. I haven't heard of too many children his age dying after a fall down carpeted stairs. It's suspicious, imo. MS hadn't passed away when RN was found. I also believe they only looked into it because of RN's death. imo

jjenny
07-31-2011, 07:23 PM
And I believe police were investigating Max's death before Rebecca's death. I haven't heard of too many children his age dying after a fall down carpeted stairs. It's suspicious, imo.

I've seen nothing to suggest police were investigating Max' death before RN's death. Nothing at all.

scorekeeper
07-31-2011, 07:25 PM
Because you cannot see the truth in what is said verses what you see.

Everyone is all over the place because the scene is all over the place.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm173/walcatt/PhotoshopScreenSnapz007.jpg

Just think about it.

Case 1 Balcony Jump

1. Why tie the rope on the bottom rung of the balcony. Top rung easier and makes the required length shorter. The rope almost doubles in length on the bottom rung because you need enough rope to allow you to move around on the balcony, put the noose around your neck, tie your own hands behind your back,stand up and flip yourself over the rail to your death.

This is what they are having you believe she done from the balcony.

Case 2 Ground level jump

2. Run upstairs to the balcony tie the rope on the bottom rung drop the rope down. Run down, climb on the table put the noose on, tie your own hands behind your back jump off the table and into the wall.

Then AS walks up see RN. Call 911 reports a woman hung that appears dead. Moves the table beneath the balcony to the wall, pulls out the knife or scissors, Cuts her down to reviver her, carrier her to the grass. Don't attempt to reviver her, Move the table back on the side walk in the standing position and wait for EMT. This is what you believe.....

Please try this. Have someone in your family to play dead and you move them from the floor to the couch just to see how hard it is to move dead weight.

And you believe he cut her down with the items in the picture above by him self.

Just look at the table. why move the table back to the walkway when it is out of the way against the wall? It does not make sense the only reason is you want it to look a certain way. Staging..

Just so many factor that points to staging...........

Well, I can see what you are saying.

I know there was a report somewhere that said the rope was tied to something in the room; i don't remember where. If that was the case then RN had to "somehow" jump up and over the balcony - all with her hands tied behind her back - there are different reports as to if her feet were bound or tied. She should have slammed into the wall! There doesn't appear to be anything on the balcony for her to stand on and jump off of. The one picture from Fox shows the french door closed. So this theory seems totally unlikely.

If RN ran down to the courtyard naked and hung herself by stepping off the table, then she should have bruises/marks from hitting the wall or trees. If she had the table close to the wall, she may have justed stepped off of it.

But who moved the table out from the house to the walkway or why?

For some reason, I am leaning toward the fact that there were two individuals involved. The guest house is to the left of the balcony. I can't imagine that AS did not hear something and look out the window.

We need to remember also that a SW was done on the garage also. Most orange extension cords are kept in the garage.

To me, both DS and JS have the personality and anger to do harm to RN.

I want more information!!

defense101
07-31-2011, 07:26 PM
Suicide has been mentioned by police as a possibility. I think they know more facts to base that one than we do.Which could be why they requested the surveillance tapes from the hospital a week later, imo they wouldn't even be asking for them if they thought it was a suicide.

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 07:28 PM
How exactly would a drunk person be able to bind her hands behind her back with cord, bind her feet with cord, and then manage to hang herself? People who commit suicide drunk might be able to shoot themselves or take pills. How am I supposed to believe that a drunk person would be able to carry out the gymnastic maneuvers required of someone to commit suicide by hanging with arms and feet bound?

I didn't say she had to be fallen down drunk jjenny but she could have been drinking as many suicide victims do before they commit suicide. She also could have had a time to sit there and relax and enjoy her favorite music one last time. She had no time clock to punch.

In one of the articles previously posted even LE said there is documentation that feet and wrists had been bound before the people committed suicide by hanging themselves. They may have been drinking too or under the influence of drugs but evidently they accomplished their goal so I don't see that any different than Rebecca being able to do hers.

IMO

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 07:28 PM
MS hadn't passed away when RN was found. I also believe they only looked into it because of RN's death. imo

Max was in critical condition due to a reported accident. I don't know why you think police would not investigate something so serious involving a child. I think they are required to do so by law.

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 07:32 PM
Which could be why they requested the surveillance tapes from the hospital a week later, imo they wouldn't even be asking for them if they thought it was a suicide.

They wouldn't conclude it was a suicide without first investigating all avenues. And, btw, they have not publicly stated any conclusion.

Charlie09
07-31-2011, 07:32 PM
Couple of thoughts-

I've lived in California for the most part of my life - I've also lived all over California, up and down the coast and central valley. San Diego Sheriff Department is top notch, there may be an occasional bad apple, but they are a stand up department. Money is not going to make this go away. I truly think we have our own minds made up won't believe the official determination if it doesn't align with our opinions, that doesn't make it money that made a difference. (I don't believe money had anything to do with the OJ verdict, it was all about race and celebrity, which is different than money.)

Just because a PR firm says they are the gateway to the media, doesn't mean they are. It means they grease hands to get more positive spin than negative, they may or may not pay posters to give alternative theories in newspapers and forums, but it does not that they can make stories go away.

Paladine
07-31-2011, 07:34 PM
Suicide has been mentioned by police as a possibility. I think they know more facts to base that one than we do.

I respect most Police. My Uncle is a retired Officer and I read, so, I am not blind to what I refer to as, 'the unfair workings of power, money and connections', be it in the justice system, politics, career moves, or simply getting a job and your child into the 'right' school.

I have my opinion. My opinion is this was no suicide. :) Now, if I see proof that shows me different? I'm no idiot. ;) Now, everything in me says murder...just one womans gut feeling; take it for what it's worth. ;)

ALL IMO IME

Rhyme & Reason
07-31-2011, 07:35 PM
Absurd? There is no autopsy report released for Max; no manner or cause of death released. The deaths of children resulting from abuse or neglect ARE prosecuted.

But LE had already ruled Maxie's death a tragic accident. They only went back for a 2nd look after Rebecca's death.

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 07:38 PM
Couple of thoughts-

I've lived in California for the most part of my life - I've also lived all over California, up and down the coast and central valley. San Diego Sheriff Department is top notch, there may be an occasional bad apple, but they are a stand up department. Money is not going to make this go away. I truly think we have our own minds made up won't believe the official determination if it doesn't align with our opinions, that doesn't make it money that made a difference. (I don't believe money had anything to do with the OJ verdict, it was all about race and celebrity, which is different than money.)

Just because a PR firm says they are the gateway to the media, doesn't mean they are. It means they grease hands to get more positive spin than negative, they may or may not pay posters to give alternative theories in newspapers and forums, but it does not that they can make stories go away.

I think the investigators know what they are doing on this one. Money hasn't made it go away so far and, ITA, just because a PR agency has a reporter's cell phone number doesn't mean their call is answered or returned.

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 07:40 PM
But LE had already ruled Maxie's death a tragic accident. They only went back for a 2nd look after Rebecca's death.

Max was still alive when she died. I didn't realize his autopsy report was released. That's really fast. Would you mind providing a link? Thanks.

scorekeeper
07-31-2011, 07:46 PM
Max was in critical condition due to a reported accident. I don't know why you think police would not investigate something so serious involving a child. I think they are required to do so by law.

It was deemed a tragic accident initially.


On Monday, Max fell down the stairs at the historic Spreckels mansion in Coronado in what police called a tragic accident. He was not breathing and did not have a pulse when paramedics found him

Source: Family Mourns Boy Injured in Fall at Mansion | NBC San Diego

Paladine
07-31-2011, 07:48 PM
Couple of thoughts-

I've lived in California for the most part of my life - I've also lived all over California, up and down the coast and central valley. San Diego Sheriff Department is top notch, there may be an occasional bad apple, but they are a stand up department. Money is not going to make this go away. I truly think we have our own minds made up won't believe the official determination if it doesn't align with our opinions, that doesn't make it money that made a difference. (I don't believe money had anything to do with the OJ verdict, it was all about race and celebrity, which is different than money.)

Just because a PR firm says they are the gateway to the media, doesn't mean they are. It means they grease hands to get more positive spin than negative, they may or may not pay posters to give alternative theories in newspapers and forums, but it does not that they can make stories go away.

Try a search of news from the date the PR comapny was hired and then see how many news stories were published, compared to beforehand. I seem to recall a sharp drop of coverage.

I have read this mans resume; it is impressive and he has some powerful connections in his history (link posted one of these threads)...but I do think if DuPont was charged and convicted...well, maybe money, power and connections don't work ALL the time.

Maybe the police are being extremely careful...that's what I'm hanging my hat on, and listening to the presser gave me that impression. Whereas, the media stories seemed to give a different spin on it, imo. The pr co's influence, perhaps? Maybe money, power. connections buys the media but not the Police? THAT I could live with....not like, but live with...

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 07:50 PM
It was deemed a tragic accident initially.


On Monday, Max fell down the stairs at the historic Spreckels mansion in Coronado in what police called a tragic accident. He was not breathing and did not have a pulse when paramedics found him

Source: Family Mourns Boy Injured in Fall at Mansion | NBC San Diego


Initially cops hadn't done an investigation and the child was still alive so what else would you expect them to say publicly?

lauriej
07-31-2011, 07:51 PM
MS hadn't passed away when RN was found. I also believe they only looked into it because of RN's death. imo

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/autopsy-to-be-conducted-on-jonah-shacknais-son

July 18/2011.

Autopsy to Be Conducted on Jonah Shacknai's Son

--snipped---

Police say that is routine, though they also will take a closer look at the death of the 6-year-old boy.

Coronado police are handling the investigation into the boy's fall, while they called in a San Diego County Sheriff's Department homicide unit to examine Zahau's death.

Scanlon and sheriffs detectives have maintained Monday's and Wednesday's incidents are not connected.

( Police spokeswoman Lea ) Corbin said that the police continue to approach the boy's July 11 fall as an accident, but are taking another look because of Zahau's death.

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 07:56 PM
Try a search of news from the date the PR comapny was hired and then see how many news stories were published, compared to beforehand. I seem to recall a sharp drop of coverage.

I have read this mans resume; it is impressive and he has some powerful connections in his history (link posted one of these threads)...but I do think if DuPont was charged and convicted...well, maybe money, power and connections don't work ALL the time.

Maybe the police are being extremely careful...that's what I'm hanging my hat on, and listening to the presser gave me that impression. Whereas, the media stories seemed to give a different spin on it, imo. The pr co's influence, perhaps? Maybe money, power. connections buys the media but not the Police? THAT I could live with....not like, but live with...

the news media don't get their stories from pr spinners, they get them directly from the cops and then call the pr agency for comment. So, if the police are not commenting or are telling the media to embargo what they are telling them, the media will honor it. At this point, the PR agency knows no more than we do.

Rhyme & Reason
07-31-2011, 07:57 PM
Max was still alive when she died. I didn't realize his autopsy report was released. That's really fast. Would you mind providing a link? Thanks.

Ok I misspoke... They had ruled his injury a tragic accident. I don't have a link offhand but just about every aticle I have read has said it was a tragic accident. I agree with previous poster who said they probably wouldn't even have done an autopsy, since he died in the hospital. They have stated in many, many articles that they went back to look into MS accident after Rebecca was found dead.

I never said the autopsy report was released. Jeez.

Charlie09
07-31-2011, 07:59 PM
Try a search of news from the date the PR comapny was hired and then see how many news stories were published, compared to beforehand. I seem to recall a sharp drop of coverage.

I have read this mans resume; it is impressive and he has some powerful connections in his history (link posted one of these threads)...but I do think if DuPont was charged and convicted...well, maybe money, power and connections don't work ALL the time.

Maybe the police are being extremely careful...that's what I'm hanging my hat on, and listening to the presser gave me that impression. Whereas, the media stories seemed to give a different spin on it, imo. The pr co's influence, perhaps? Maybe money, power. connections buys the media but not the Police? THAT I could live with....not like, but live with...

In all fairness, look at how we respond when it's regurgitation of what's already been reported on. :) (me too in this response!! It's aggravating...but if they don't have anything new to report what are they supposed to write about?) I rather appreciate they can't get unnamed sources in the department leaking information.

I'd rather let the forums and blogs speculate, let the press report. I'm not saying connections don't help of course they do - but I can only think of one suicide that I'm pretty sure was murder, and the political connections of the white house helped cover it up. Ok, maybe two if we consider Marilyn Monroe.

scorekeeper
07-31-2011, 07:59 PM
Separately, the Coronado Police Department is investigating the death of 6-year-old Max Shacknai, the son of the owner. The boy fell down the stairs at the mansion on July 11 and was rushed to Rady Children's Hospital in San Diego, where he died July 17.

The Coronado police have tentatively labeled the boy's death accidental. Investigators have said they have found no connection between the two deaths.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/07/team-of-15-detectives-probing-womans-death-at-coronado-mansion.html

LE began looking more closely at MS AFTER RN was found.

I believe if RN had not been killed (my thoughts) LE would have not investigated MS's "accident" any further because they had initially said it was a tragic accident.

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 08:00 PM
http://coronado.patch.com/articles/autopsy-to-be-conducted-on-jonah-shacknais-son

July 18/2011.

Autopsy to Be Conducted on Jonah Shacknai's Son

--snipped---

Police say that is routine, though they also will take a closer look at the death of the 6-year-old boy.

Coronado police are handling the investigation into the boy's fall, while they called in a San Diego County Sheriff's Department homicide unit to examine Zahau's death.

Scanlon and sheriffs detectives have maintained Monday's and Wednesday's incidents are not connected.

( Police spokeswoman Lea ) Corbin said that the police continue to approach the boy's July 11 fall as an accident, but are taking another look because of Zahau's death.

I'm betting the "accident" theory was based totally on the statement made to police by Zahau.

Rhyme & Reason
07-31-2011, 08:00 PM
It was deemed a tragic accident initially.


On Monday, Max fell down the stairs at the historic Spreckels mansion in Coronado in what police called a tragic accident. He was not breathing and did not have a pulse when paramedics found him

Source: Family Mourns Boy Injured in Fall at Mansion | NBC San Diego

Thank you!

defense101
07-31-2011, 08:03 PM
..my comments in blue.

..please explain what you mean by 'said and done'----when this case is over? if so------why would it matter THEN what you see in the images NOW?
In regards to what AS said regarding finding RN hanging and cut her down that is what AS told responding officers. If you go further into the press conference video during the reporters questions to Captain Curran about the 911 call this is what he says. "That there was a woman on the property and that she appeared to be dead".

Paladine
07-31-2011, 08:05 PM
I see some debate on Max's investigation and when it started, and whether Rebecca was under threat of that...these links say no:
On Sunday afternoon, Coronado police said they had no information about the boy's death, and the [B]San Diego Sheriff's Department said it had no plans to investigate Max's death because so far, it had only been asked to investigate Zahau's death."
Coronado police spokeswoman, Leah Corbin, said there appeared to be no connection between the boy's fall and Zahau's death. "It just seems to be a tragic accident," she said.Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2011/07/17/20110717arizona-shacknai-coronado-child-dies-from-injuries-0717.html#ixzz1TjNRFCz1

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 08:08 PM
Separately, the Coronado Police Department is investigating the death of 6-year-old Max Shacknai, the son of the owner. The boy fell down the stairs at the mansion on July 11 and was rushed to Rady Children's Hospital in San Diego, where he died July 17.

The Coronado police have tentatively labeled the boy's death accidental. Investigators have said they have found no connection between the two deaths.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/07/team-of-15-detectives-probing-womans-death-at-coronado-mansion.html

LE began looking more closely at MS AFTER RN was found.

I believe if RN had not been killed (my thoughts) LE would have not investigated MS's "accident" any further because they had initially said it was a tragic accident.

If RN was the only other person present when Max's injury occurred, it will be impossible to determine for certain if his death was an accident or not, imo. But it not being an accident is the only reason I can see for RN committing suicide.

A fall down carpeted steps that results in death is a mighty suspicious "accident."

scorekeeper
07-31-2011, 08:09 PM
Initially cops hadn't done an investigation and the child was still alive so what else would you expect them to say publicly?

If they had any reason for suspicion, the statement might have been..

a 6 year old was found at bottom of stairs not breathing. LE is investing the suspicious circumstances surrounding his condition.....speculation

Paladine
07-31-2011, 08:10 PM
In all fairness, look at how we respond when it's regurgitation of what's already been reported on. :) (me too in this response!! It's aggravating...but if they don't have anything new to report what are they supposed to write about?) I rather appreciate they can't get unnamed sources in the department leaking information.

I'd rather let the forums and blogs speculate, let the press report. I'm not saying connections don't help of course they do - but I can only think of one suicide that I'm pretty sure was murder, and the political connections of the white house helped cover it up. Ok, maybe two if we consider Marilyn Monroe.

Skakel comes to mind for me rather than JFK...;) Justice served, imo...albeit cold. ;)

oceanblueeyes
07-31-2011, 08:11 PM
I see some debate on Max's investigation and when it started, and whether Rebecca was under threat of that...these links say no:

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2011/07/17/20110717arizona-shacknai-coronado-child-dies-from-injuries-0717.html#ixzz1TjNRFCz1

And from the article dated 7/18/2011 linked above

Police say that is routine, though they also will take a closer look at the death of the 6-year-old boy.

defense101
07-31-2011, 08:12 PM
If RN was the only other person present when Max's injury occurred, it will be impossible to determine for certain if his death was an accident or not, imo. But it not being an accident is the only reason I can see for RN committing suicide.

A fall down carpeted steps that results in death is a mighty suspicious "accident." If being the key word, except RN was not the only person present at the time of the accident.

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 08:14 PM
If they had any reason for suspicion, the statement might have been..

a 6 year old was found at bottom of stairs not breathing. LE is investing the suspicious circumstances surrounding his condition.....speculation

a healthy 6 year-old not breathing is suspicious. Doesn't matter where he was found, imo.

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 08:16 PM
If being the key word, except RN was not the only person present at the time of the accident.

I wasn't aware there were witnesses. Is there a link I could read up more about it? Thanks.

arielilane
07-31-2011, 08:17 PM
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:jAsL9bdajSIJ:apps.sdsheriff.net/press/Default.aspx%3FFileLink%3D6dae38aa-7ca0-4c93-8cdb-37e06850a47b+dr.+jonah+shacknai&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgif5nHrgOu6LOnOUBMEFfNqoPXZYbMAIdoiJ4o mFu99RxZpACRiu9SffpuiVmbDZa-ZwYRkgwg8k3yVt-q9CmIjXZn7vDtCU9ohR_KnIO_xkFfDDLHuCwgdsqV9KwQKvGe0 bFS&sig=AHIEtbRhJ2Kxfic4uwDY8DFN_r1h19mJuQ)

Paladine
07-31-2011, 08:17 PM
..my comments in blue.

..please explain what you mean by 'said and done'----when this case is over? if so------why would it matter THEN what you see in the images NOW?

waiting for an answer to this question with bated breath...might even skip the banana cream pie to stay in here to keeping checking for an answer, lol...;)

scorekeeper
07-31-2011, 08:18 PM
If RN was the only other person present when Max's injury occurred, it will be impossible to determine for certain if his death was an accident or not, imo. But it not being an accident is the only reason I can see for RN committing suicide.

A fall down carpeted steps that results in death is a mighty suspicious "accident."

But RN wasn't the only one home. There was a 13 year female there also.

jjenny
07-31-2011, 08:19 PM
http://coronado.patch.com/articles/autopsy-to-be-conducted-on-jonah-shacknais-son

July 18/2011.

Autopsy to Be Conducted on Jonah Shacknai's Son

--snipped---

Police say that is routine, though they also will take a closer look at the death of the 6-year-old boy.

Coronado police are handling the investigation into the boy's fall, while they called in a San Diego County Sheriff's Department homicide unit to examine Zahau's death.

Scanlon and sheriffs detectives have maintained Monday's and Wednesday's incidents are not connected.

( Police spokeswoman Lea ) Corbin said that the police continue to approach the boy's July 11 fall as an accident, but are taking another look because of Zahau's death.

Exactly. Police weren't at all suspicious when Max died. The only reason they are investigating his death further is because of suspicious death of RN.

arielilane
07-31-2011, 08:22 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?pictureid=12709&albumid=203&dl=1312158025&thumb=1 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/album.php?albumid=203&pictureid=12709)
ADT sign (orange arrow)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?pictureid=12708&albumid=203&dl=1312158004&thumb=1 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/album.php?albumid=203&pictureid=12708)
Is this the guesthouse or what room?

scorekeeper
07-31-2011, 08:24 PM
a healthy 6 year-old not breathing is suspicious. Doesn't matter where he was found, imo.

I wasn't aware there were witnesses. Is there a link I could read up more about it? Thanks.

MyBelle,

This is Thread #4. A lot of information has been posted since Thread #1.

You may want to check out the fox or cbs sites for san diego. Also,

http://coronado.patch.com/ has stories.

Welcome to WS!!

MyBelle
07-31-2011, 08:31 PM
But RN wasn't the only one home. There was a 13 year female there also.

Every news article I've read mentions only Rebecca being present when the incident took place.

arielilane
07-31-2011, 08:31 PM
Did anyone do a screen shot before the media blurred her body almost completely out?

tia

IMO
I pm'd you a screen shot.