View Full Version : Jeana (DP) And I Would Like To Welcome You To the Darlie Routier Forum
We want to thank Tricia for opening up the forum. Please bare with me while Jeana teaches me the ropes of being a Mod. As soon as Jeana has the time she will be moving the Darlie thread here to the forum.
Casshew
10-22-2004, 08:40 PM
Congratualtions Windchime :blowkiss: I know you will do great!
Thank you so much Cass :blowkiss:
Tricia
10-22-2004, 09:00 PM
Thank you DP and Windchime for being willing to do the work.
WS did have a Routier forum a while back but it got so crazy River had to close it. We are going to watch this forum closely to make sure things stay lively but nice.
I have gone back and forth on this case. I am anxious to read the evidence and your thoughts on the case.
Tricia
Sprocket
10-22-2004, 09:03 PM
Sincerest congratulations to WindChime! I wish you the best in learing the ropes!
I'm sure you will do just fine.
I know that I will truly enjoy taking on the new task and I will do my very best. I love WS and I am honored to be a part of it..
izzyB
10-22-2004, 09:41 PM
living in the area, i have followed this case from the very beginning. i can't wait to get started because i have my own opinions and would love to hear those of others!!
thanks tricia for allowing this thread and good luck wind chime!! i for one promise to be good :innocent: .
Thorkim
10-22-2004, 09:45 PM
Thanks for opening this Tricia. I have always been interested in this case as well as JonBenet, although the JonBenet case is my passion first and foremost. As you, I also go back and forth in this case. Very strange case. I have read several books on it.
Congrats Windchime!
Thank you izzyB and Thorkim
Gabby
10-22-2004, 10:09 PM
Windchime Best of luck... I know that you can do this. I have very mixed and varied emotions when it comes to this case. As a MOTHER how could she do it..and I believe that her husband is also involved in some way.
Texana
10-22-2004, 10:11 PM
I'm glad you opened this up.
Thanks.
It will be interesting to see what others think of Darlie's guilt/innocence.
thank you so much I'm sure going to give it my best shot. lol
Elf the sweetheart that she is, is going to move Darlie Routier thread here for us tonight.. :blowkiss: :blowkiss:
Casshew
10-22-2004, 11:27 PM
So where do we start? with there be a timeline thread.. and info thread? I have read about the case but I do no know it well to just jump in cold.
How about a thread with info links?
BeeBee
10-22-2004, 11:38 PM
Hey, A Darlie forum! This case has had me doing the tennis ball thingy. Congratulations Windchime. It's great you'll like modding with Jeana. She's a sweetie as is Elf.
There are some serious Darlie forums out there and they can get wild. Keep your fingers crossed that none from any of those show up. LOL.
Let's start a thread like you said for the timeline and information thread
Dark Knight
10-24-2004, 07:04 AM
As a MOTHER how could she do it..and I believe that her husband is also involved in some way.Pfft! Mothers kill their own children all the time! Susan Smith, et al. Mothers also abuse their children all the time. I don't see it as that great of a leap, even though you couldn't do it to your own kids, nor if I was a father, could I kill mine. But the "she's their mother" idea doesn't cause me any great ambivilance regarding her guilt. (And yes "all the time" was a generalization, but you know what I meant, lol.)
I've said elsewhere that I think her husband abused her that night, causing her bruises, (they had had what was described a violent arguements before) and she flew into a rage and took it out on her children, who she had shown no real love for previously, including leaving them locked outside begging to be let back in, at times, causing authorities to be called. (That's the abridged version of my theory, anyways.)
VespaElf
10-24-2004, 01:11 PM
Great forum!!!!!! :clap:
Im usually really concrete in my opinions(as most of you know by now! :cool: )but this case just has me blindsided!!!! I dont know what to think!!!
I know Darlie and Darin are involved but you get to the "spin" from Darlie's camp and it leaves one quite confused! :waitasec:
Juliana
10-24-2004, 09:13 PM
Pfft! Mothers kill their own children all the time! Susan Smith, et al. Mothers also abuse their children all the time. I don't see it as that great of a leap, even though you couldn't do it to your own kids, nor if I was a father, could I kill mine. But the "she's their mother" idea doesn't cause me any great ambivilance regarding her guilt. (And yes "all the time" was a generalization, but you know what I meant, lol.)
I've said elsewhere that I think her husband abused her that night, causing her bruises, (they had had what was described a violent arguements before) and she flew into a rage and took it out on her children, who she had shown no real love for previously, including leaving them locked outside begging to be let back in, at times, causing authorities to be called. (That's the abridged version of my theory, anyways.)
Dark Knight,
I want to hear more about the locking out episode. I live in the area where this happened and read every article that comes out in the paper, but have not researched this case more than that. I hadn't heard anything about her locking the kids out or not being a good mother (although I had never believed she was a "great" mother either!).
Thanks in advance.
imo
Jeana (DP)
10-25-2004, 11:22 AM
There are neighbors who reported that although the boys were outside quite a bit of the time and they saw Darin occasionally, Darlie did not accompany her young children outside. They were allowed to roam the neighborhood unaccompanied by an adult at times. I've heard that they were allowed to play unaccompanied in the hot tub, which could not been seen from the house as it was inside an enclosure. I also heard the "rumor" that Darlie did, at least once, lock them out of the house because she had just cleaned the house and they were trashing it again. Darin claims that she's a "cleanaholic," so this is not hard to believe.
We want to thank Tricia for opening up the forum. Please bare with me while Jeana teaches me the ropes of being a Mod. As soon as Jeana has the time she will be moving the Darlie thread here to the forum.
Windchime, that graphic is incredible. Wonderful. Just as you can imagine Laci waving to her family.
Thank you DP et al for bringing the forum in here. I am new here and don't know anyone but DP so forgive me. I have a terrible memory as well so I forget posters names. I, like DP, have been involved in the Guiltyascharged forum for quite a while now. I am not Camilla, she's our blood expert. I just like to read the posts and get everyone's opinions. I believe Darlie is guilty of murdering those two beautiful boys. I have swung on the fence myself but once I saw that Medical Detectives program and the blood spatter expert Bevel, I jumped firmly into the guilty yard. I don't think there is anyone who does not believe Darin is involved. To what extent is the question
OriginalJerseyGirl
01-28-2005, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by Dark Knight: I've said elsewhere that I think her husband abused her that night, causing her bruises, (they had had what was described a violent arguements before) ...
This sounds like the most likely explanation I've heard yet about her bruises. I think I read somewhere though that the bruises, (except for a couple of minor ones near her wrists), weren't on her while she was at the hospital. In the photos I've seen of her with the bruises, however, she does appear to be wearing a hospital gown. Does anyone know with some certainy the story with the bruises ... were they on her/did they develop while she was in the hospital or was it not until after her release that the bruises came along?
Did Darin have any marks on him whatsoever, even little scratches? Darlie strikes me as the kind of woman that would have fought him back if he hit her.
Goody
01-29-2005, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by Dark Knight: I've said elsewhere that I think her husband abused her that night, causing her bruises, (they had had what was described a violent arguements before) ...
This sounds like the most likely explanation I've heard yet about her bruises. I think I read somewhere though that the bruises, (except for a couple of minor ones near her wrists), weren't on her while she was at the hospital. In the photos I've seen of her with the bruises, however, she does appear to be wearing a hospital gown. Does anyone know with some certainy the story with the bruises ... were they on her/did they develop while she was in the hospital or was it not until after her release that the bruises came along?
Did Darin have any marks on him whatsoever, even little scratches? Darlie strikes me as the kind of woman that would have fought him back if he hit her.
There is absolutely no evidence at all of Darin ever hitting Darlie at all. Not her family or his or their friends or even the disgruntled employee who testified against Darlie at the trial. She said that Darlie was getting angry more often in the last few months before the murders, that she yelled at Darin a lot about money, and that sometimes she would come to the shop and throw things at him. (It seems Darlie's biggest beef was Darin not being more aggressive in his collections from clients who owed them money.) I don't think Darin would have harmed her physically unless he was trying to disarm her or prevent her from hurting herself or others.
Goody
01-29-2005, 10:53 PM
Dark Knight,
I want to hear more about the locking out episode. I live in the area where this happened and read every article that comes out in the paper, but have not researched this case more than that. I hadn't heard anything about her locking the kids out or not being a good mother (although I had never believed she was a "great" mother either!).
Thanks in advance.
imo
It is in one of the books written about her case. There are four:
1. Precious Angels
2. Flesh and Blood
3. Hush, Little Babies
4. Media Tried, Justice Denied
I think it was in one or both of the first two. There was also testimony at the trial about how she would bring the kids to the shop to have Darin watch them while she went shopping, and they'd let the kids run around outside playing on a busy street without supervision. The children just didn't seem to be their first priority.
I also noticed that they had a lot of electronics, all kinds of video games. Their home was even known around the neighborhood as The Nintendo House. But I didn't see many toys in the photos, and the back yard was filled with the hot tub, the shed that housed it, and a monument waterfall to a cat that had died. Darlie had spent several hundred dollars on a tombstone for it. But there was no swing set or gym set. They had bikes and I think there was a little table and some small chairs, but I have never heard anyone talk about big toy boxes filled with trucks and Legos and action figures, etc., boy toys.
It was just very different than my house and yard when my kids were growing up. It seemed to me that most of the things for the kids were things the parents could enjoy, too, rather than things just for the kids. My house was the exact opposite. I don't think I can call her a bad parent, but I don't think she was great either. And I will bet if I had lived in the neighborhood, I would have disapproved of many of her parenting habits. Still, I think she loved the children. Maybe she just didn't appreciate them. That happens sometimes.
Goody
01-29-2005, 10:57 PM
I live in the area where this happened and read every article that comes out in the paper, but have not researched this case more than that.
imo
What do you hear about Darin or the family? Ever hear if he is dating?
stlouischili
01-30-2005, 05:09 PM
Goody-I observed the same thing, regarding the appearance of adults' things and kids' things when I saw the photos of the house on the website and in MTJD.
The thing that stuck out to me like a sore thumb was they way every room in the house seemed to be almost overdecorated, not only with furniture, but there were expensive accessories everywhere.
Then you see the pictures taken looking into the boys' rooms. Plain walls, not too many toys, and the furniture in the boys' rooms, while not free, was definitely of much cheaper quality than the other furniture in the home.
If I had to pick one picture that nailed Darlie (although there is much evidence and photos to choose from) it is the photo of the delicate white china soup tureen perched precariously alongside the knife, on the snack bar adjoining the room where the murders took place. IMO, it looks like that piece was in danger of falling off on its own, much less with a violent struggle taking place virtually in the same room.
Jeana (DP)
01-30-2005, 05:22 PM
Goody-I observed the same thing, regarding the appearance of adults' things and kids' things when I saw the photos of the house on the website and in MTJD.
The thing that stuck out to me like a sore thumb was they way every room in the house seemed to be almost overdecorated, not only with furniture, but there were expensive accessories everywhere.
Then you see the pictures taken looking into the boys' rooms. Plain walls, not too many toys, and the furniture in the boys' rooms, while not free, was definitely of much cheaper quality than the other furniture in the home.
If I had to pick one picture that nailed Darlie (although there is much evidence and photos to choose from) it is the photo of the delicate white china soup tureen perched precariously alongside the knife, on the snack bar adjoining the room where the murders took place. IMO, it looks like that piece was in danger of falling off on its own, much less with a violent struggle taking place virtually in the same room.
That one got me too!!! There was also a knee-level ledge visible in some of the photographs. This ledge looked like it ran through the family room and would have been impossible to avoid. Nothing was knocked off of this ledge or the other shelves hanging between those rooms.
Goody
01-30-2005, 11:27 PM
Goody-I observed the same thing, regarding the appearance of adults' things and kids' things when I saw the photos of the house on the website and in MTJD.
The thing that stuck out to me like a sore thumb was they way every room in the house seemed to be almost overdecorated, not only with furniture, but there were expensive accessories everywhere.
Then you see the pictures taken looking into the boys' rooms. Plain walls, not too many toys, and the furniture in the boys' rooms, while not free, was definitely of much cheaper quality than the other furniture in the home.
The boys had separate rooms, I've been told. Supposedly the Mickey Mouse room was Damon's, but he didn't like sleeping in there. He preferred to sleep in Devon's room. I think he had the top bunk.
What stood out of me was that Devon's room appeared to be so plain. I have always wondered why. I think one of the books addresses it, too, without explanation from family or friends.
Goody
01-30-2005, 11:37 PM
If I had to pick one picture that nailed Darlie (although there is much evidence and photos to choose from) it is the photo of the delicate white china soup tureen perched precariously alongside the knife, on the snack bar adjoining the room where the murders took place. IMO, it looks like that piece was in danger of falling off on its own, much less with a violent struggle taking place virtually in the same room.
For me it was the police video of the home shown on Medical Detectives. You get a better feel for how small the area was. She had gobs of stuff on every surface, lots of breakables and there was not a lot of distance between the shelves, rooms, etc. I realized that one intruder would have had a really tough time avoiding running into things, esp with adrenalin running and being in a hurry to leave, etc. Now she says that there were two intruders, so you've got two strangers now in a rather small area with adrenalin running and hurried, and NEITHER one knock anything over, save one wine glass.
I agree that the white tureen seems to take up a good portion of the shelf it is sitting on, and it does make you wonder how it managed to come out unscathed. Shoot, it is a wonder a frantic Darlie didn't knock it over.
That one got me too!!! There was also a knee-level ledge visible in some of the photographs. This ledge looked like it ran through the family room and would have been impossible to avoid. Nothing was knocked off of this ledge or the other shelves hanging between those rooms.
That white carpet got me. Two active boys and a baby and the carpet is white!!!!!
Usher737
02-01-2005, 03:21 PM
It is possible to have a clean house and kids, it just takes lots of work. They did have a housekeeper help her.
Look at the history of photos that show fun family times with the kids. Easter egg hunt, nice Halloween costumes, family trips, playing in the snow, etc... They look so happy! Parents who take an interest in their kids, do these kinds of things.
I keep changing my theories on this case. I need to analyze the hard, physicall evidence and eliminate the hearsay. Any recomendations on what to read ?
If she is guilty, then I believe the post partem depression played a role. This was not planned: she snapped and panicked and maybe even tried to take her own life. I dont believe for a second that she killed them and then went right into a cover up mode.
If she is innocent then I believe the intruder was someone familier with the house and possibly had a key. I do not believe this was some random crime or robbery. And finally Darin knows more than he is saying.
Jeana (DP)
02-01-2005, 06:11 PM
That white carpet got me. Two active boys and a baby and the carpet is white!!!!!
Probably NOT the smartest move! However, I think the house was already built and they probably didn't have a choice.
Jeana (DP)
02-01-2005, 06:15 PM
It is possible to have a clean house and kids, it just takes lots of work. They did have a housekeeper help her.
Look at the history of photos that show fun family times with the kids. Easter egg hunt, nice Halloween costumes, family trips, playing in the snow, etc... They look so happy! Parents who take an interest in their kids, do these kinds of things.
I keep changing my theories on this case. I need to analyze the hard, physicall evidence and eliminate the hearsay. Any recomendations on what to read ?
If she is guilty, then I believe the post partem depression played a role. This was not planned: she snapped and panicked and maybe even tried to take her own life. I dont believe for a second that she killed them and then went right into a cover up mode.
If she is innocent then I believe the intruder was someone familier with the house and possibly had a key. I do not believe this was some random crime or robbery. And finally Darin knows more than he is saying.
Hi Usher!! I agree that its possible. She didn't work, so she had plenty of time to clean up the house. The once-in-a-while housekeeper was probably a big help too!!
Which, of the 16 different versions Darlie told about that night, do you think is closest to the truth? Does it bother you (or does your "hinky" meter go off) when you read all those different versions? Does it bother you that she still cannot tell us for sure if there were one or two intruders? Doesn't this seem like an important thing to remember? She doesn't seem to have any other "blanks" in her memory of that night. Why do you suppose that the only two things that STILL are not clear is how many people attacked her and the kids and what Darin was wearing when he came down stairs?
I agree that this probably wasn't planned out long in advance. I think it was hours at most.
Probably NOT the smartest move! However, I think the house was already built and they probably didn't have a choice.
oooh I get you. I take that back then.
I thought they had the house built but now I remember that Darin did some repairs to the staircase so they didn't.
Usher737
02-02-2005, 04:38 PM
Hi Usher!! I agree that its possible. She didn't work, so she had plenty of time to clean up the house. The once-in-a-while housekeeper was probably a big help too!!
Which, of the 16 different versions Darlie told about that night, do you think is closest to the truth? Does it bother you (or does your "hinky" meter go off) when you read all those different versions? Does it bother you that she still cannot tell us for sure if there were one or two intruders? Doesn't this seem like an important thing to remember? She doesn't seem to have any other "blanks" in her memory of that night. Why do you suppose that the only two things that STILL are not clear is how many people attacked her and the kids and what Darin was wearing when he came down stairs?
I agree that this probably wasn't planned out long in advance. I think it was hours at most.
Thanks for the welcome!
The versions of her story do not drastically change. I think anyone who goes through such a tramatic event can be confused, remember things later, and maybe never at all.
The mind can play tricks. I am sure it feels so surreal, almost at times like a bad dream. It can be difficult to trust your own rememory.
I recently had a minor car accident, and I got all flustered and over re-acted. I kept trying to remember every detail that happened before the accident and could not. I have a camera cell phone and didn't even think to use it. Under stress a person can easily make "bad" decisions.
If she is gulity why not just say 1 man to try and make herself look better? Perhaps she is not ruling a second because she simply cant be 100% sure.
Not to long ago I fell asleep in my bed with my toddler. Some of my family was over and they could not resist seeing how cute we looked. I found out the next day about 6 different people came in the room to look at us and comment. I never really woke up or heard a thing. My husband carried the baby to his crib and I got startled a little when he came back to get into bed. I am kind of light sleeper. Anyway it is possible to be so tired to not realize what is going on around you when most of the time you do!
What some people view as odd or not normal can be under certain conditions. I am still trying to view and analyze the physical evidence to form a plausible conclusion.
Out of all the cases on this board, this one is really bothering me. I guess I dont want to believe a young mother in a good home is capable of something like this.
Goody
02-06-2005, 12:13 AM
That white carpet got me. Two active boys and a baby and the carpet is white!!!!!
I wouldn't get white carpet either if I had kids, but when I sold real estate in the 90s, most young couples with kids wanted white carpeting just like their pals with no kids. I used to think, Why don't you just go out and flog yourself? You'd have to stand there like Attilla the Hun guarding it all the time. Definitely not my bag.
Goody
02-06-2005, 12:23 AM
Probably NOT the smartest move! However, I think the house was already built and they probably didn't have a choice.
It was a new subdivision. No one lived in the house before them, but I do believe it was already built so the carpet may have come with it. I believe it was the model, but can't be sure of that. (You'd think they could get new carpets for that reason alone.) Still, they had runners down to protect it and apparently strict rules to the kids about when, where, and how they were allowed to go in and out.
Cami and I probably just enjoy a more layed back atmosphere.....and carpets that camouflague what they drag in, so all we have to do is yell, Close the door. hahahahah!
Goody
02-06-2005, 01:12 AM
It is possible to have a clean house and kids, it just takes lots of work. They did have a housekeeper help her.
For two days! hahahaha! The one before her had been gone several months as I understood it. No one ever did answer that question with any specific date. Besides, Darlie needed a maid like she needed a hole in her head. Maybe a little exercise would have helped her shed those few pounds she was so worried about. Then she wouldn't have had to take those diet pills that wouldn't let her sleep. (my opinion, not Darlie's)
Look at the history of photos that show fun family times with the kids. Easter egg hunt, nice Halloween costumes, family trips, playing in the snow, etc... They look so happy! Parents who take an interest in their kids, do these kinds of things.
Ain't it funny how our photos only show the happy times? Guess there were none of hot sweaty kids climbing into the garage window after popsickles stored in the garage freezer or of them on their bikes blocks away, playing near busy streets, or playing in that construction site (who lets their kids play at a construction site?)
I think the Routiers loved their children, but I wouldn't call them devoted. It was easy to go out and buy things for the kids to look nice in. Hard to get involved. I don't think she was all that involved. I am not sure that makes them terribly different from many parents today, but there could be something in it of a psychological nature that might explain an emotional separation that we aren't aware of yet. So I am still sitting on this egg.
I keep changing my theories on this case. I need to analyze the hard, physicall evidence and eliminate the hearsay. Any recomendations on what to read ? .
Camilla is really good with the blood evidence. I have a hard time with it myself, but I am gradually learning. You might read Tom Bevel's testimony and compare it to some of the profiles on TV where blood evidence is an issue. That helped me.
If you can picture Darlie in the right position over Devon, the blood evidence makes perfect sense. Add that to the fact that no one, not a soul on her side has ever conducted another test, professional or amateur, to show how those same, or even similar spots on her shirt could have been made by two attackers, flying blood during first aid, etc. Why? Because they know the drops won't land the same way...with their little tails pointing in the same direction and if they won't, they do more damage than good.
Camilla can do this so much better than I but when blood is hurled off the knife blade (centrifical force, I believe), it forms a little tail that points in the direction it is going. The length and size of that tail is determined by the speed. Any demonstration of how those droplets landed on her shirt have to duplicate the direction of those tails as well as the droplets themselves. If they don't, the new direction points to an entirely different event, which won't change the results of Bevel's tests.
Best thing to do about blood evidence, is let Camilla guide you thru it or find some blood expert who will help you as you weed thru it.
If she is guilty, then I believe the post partem depression played a role. This was not planned: she snapped and panicked and maybe even tried to take her own life. I dont believe for a second that she killed them and then went right into a cover up mode.
I have a couple of theories myself that incorporate some of your ideas, but I disagree that she ever tried to take her own life. I don't believe that ever happened. She would have had only very few minutes to change her mind. Remember Damon's injuries set the timeline. However, I agree that she didn't go into cover up right away and that means the timeline would have to change.
What could change the timeline? Not Damon's injuries. He died in the paramedic's arms. Devon's? Hmmn.....no one knows exactly when he died. So when did he die? The body loses about one to one and a half degree of body temperature per hour. How would the paramedics know if he had been dead for 5 minutes or 50 minutes or even two hours? Did anyone even notice? His body was left there in the house until near noon, I believe, and it was quite late before the coroner showed up. I don't think his body temp was taken until autopsy or close to it, which was not done until around 1:00. Damon's, on the other hand, was done that morning.
If she is innocent then I believe the intruder was someone familier with the house and possibly had a key.
Then she lied when she said she saw him go out through the garage.
Why would an intruder cut the screen if he had a key? If he didn't, then who did....Darlie? Darin? Why would they cover up for anyone at all, even a family member? I don't think even bad parents would do that.
I do not believe this was some random crime or robbery. And finally Darin knows more than he is saying.
I agree with both of these statements.
Goody
02-06-2005, 01:53 AM
Thanks for the welcome!
The versions of her story do not drastically change. I think anyone who goes through such a tramatic event can be confused, remember things later, and maybe never at all. .
It is not the changes but the timing of the changes and why the changes were made. And, there are just certain things victims don't change, like where the killer was standing when they first saw him. Darlie has him at her head, at her feet, sitting on her, and walking away. Obviously the police are pointing out inconsistencies, albeit deceitfully and seemingly innocently, and she is trying to fill in the holes to make herself look innocent. Point is, an innocent person would not do that. They would know exactly where that guy was when they first became aware of his presence. Look at other cases. You will see what they mean.
It seems like most of Darlie's changes come about after the police mention a problem with her story, and like most guilty defendants, she feels compelled to plug the hole for fear she will be detected. The old Columbo series worked off of that little flaw. The bungling detective would come up with the most minute, annoying details that didn't fit and the suspects would turn themselves inside out to outsmart him by explaining away all of his concerns. The same trait follows Darlie all the way thru the trial, even to the end when after the district atty tells the jury that she didn;t even call him a liar when she was accused of murdering her children. What does Darlie do? Festers on it for awhile and then right at the end, she yells out, "Liar, liar." It went over like a led balloon, because it was such an obvious response to his criticism. Bad move on her part but I don't think she ever did get it because she puts out a paper In Her Words after her conviction where she changes a few more things. Much bigger changes there.
Not to long ago I fell asleep in my bed with my toddler. Some of my family was over and they could not resist seeing how cute we looked. I found out the next day about 6 different people came in the room to look at us and comment. I never really woke up or heard a thing. My husband carried the baby to his crib and I got startled a little when he came back to get into bed. I am kind of light sleeper. Anyway it is possible to be so tired to not realize what is going on around you when most of the time you do! .
Not if you have been taking Phenfen for longer than recommended and can't fall asleep because the baby wiggles in his crib and makes the wheels squeak on the floor. LOL! So you go to sleep on a vinyl couch in front of a TV and we're supposed to believe you went into one heck of a deep sleep?
Darlie only had about 20 pounds or so to lose, so she shouldn't have even been taking the drug. It is not recommended for weight loss under 30 pounds, I think. Plus she had been taking it for a couple of months longer than recommended. I think Cami knows this better than I. I'd have to look it up to be exact. So right off the bat now, you have a depressed woman taking strong diet pills against recommendations and plenty of outside irritants to spice up the mix.
What some people view as odd or not normal can be under certain conditions. .
I don't buy this. There are many stages of grief, anxiety, trauma, etc. and they all have groupings within them. We might express our reaction to them differently, but differently within the grouping. For example, a common statement by victims is that everything seemed to move in slow motion. Darin makes that statement. Darlie doesn't. Darin's actions when he sits on the curbing supports him on it. Nothing about Darlie's actions support a future claim she might ever make about experiencing it. That makes him much more believable than her. He reacts more traumatized than she did, yet she claims to have amnesia and he doesn;t.
Other things like the stages of grief: We all experience denial. One of us might express it openly and emotionally, kicking and screaming in hysterics while another might just be sitting quietly and thinking it can't be real. Neither of these parents ever express this or anything akin to it. I bet their families did though. They both seemed too willing to accept the loss much, much too soon as if they had already gone through the various stages beforehand and were emotionally prepared at the time of the murders. We don't have enough information to know exactly what that means, but it means something.
So I wouldn't be too generous with excuses for these two. They left all kinds of smoking bushes around.
Out of all the cases on this board, this one is really bothering me. I guess I dont want to believe a young mother in a good home is capable of something like this.
Unfortunately we are all capable of such horrors. It is just that most of us couldn't bear to cross such a line. However, just being a mother is not where the difference lies. Not sure I know exactly where or what that is. I just don't think people who murder are necessarily monsters, though they could be, or that we aren't simply because we behave. As the old quote goes, Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? And women these days. :)
BTW, I am new around here but not new to the case.
Usher737
02-07-2005, 02:32 PM
Thanks Goody for the well analyzed and thought out response! You have given me many ideas to ponder. I would definetly love to learn more about the blood evidence. I am new to the case and can not get it off of my mind. I always analyze the hard, physicall evidence to reach some kind of conclusion. I perfer to rely on interepations of the crime scene and tangible evidence rather than hearsay.
Out of curiosity, How to you think Darlie got the bruises on her arms: self inflicted or Darin?
BTW I really liked how you responded point by point.
Thanks again!
Jeana (DP)
02-07-2005, 02:40 PM
Thanks Goody for the well analyzed and thought out response! You have given me many ideas to ponder. I would definetly love to learn more about the blood evidence. I am new to the case and can not get it off of my mind. I always analyze the hard, physicall evidence to reach some kind of conclusion. I perfer to rely on interepations of the crime scene and tangible evidence rather than hearsay.
Out of curiosity, How to you think Darlie got the bruises on her arms: self inflicted or Darin?
BTW I really liked how you responded point by point.
Thanks again!
Isn't she awesome!!!!! :woohoo: :woohoo:
IrishMist
02-08-2005, 06:48 AM
Unfortunately we are all capable of such horrors. It is just that most of us couldn't bear to cross such a line. However, just being a mother is not where the difference lies. Not sure I know exactly where or what that is. I just don't think people who murder are necessarily monsters, though they could be, or that we aren't simply because we behave. As the old quote goes, Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? And women these days.
I am reading a very interesting book on this very subject.
It's called "Why They Kill" by Richard Rhodes.
I highly recommend it. Not the easiest book to read, but gives alot of insight into violent behavior.
Next I want to read "The Creation of Dangerous Violent Criminals" by Lonnie Athens. Has anyone read it?
It was a new subdivision. No one lived in the house before them, but I do believe it was already built so the carpet may have come with it. I believe it was the model, but can't be sure of that. (You'd think they could get new carpets for that reason alone.) Still, they had runners down to protect it and apparently strict rules to the kids about when, where, and how they were allowed to go in and out.
Cami and I probably just enjoy a more layed back atmosphere.....and carpets that camouflague what they drag in, so all we have to do is yell, Close the door. hahahahah!
Absolument! My son had six friends coming in the front and eight going out the back. I wanted those boys to enjoy themselves in my little home and not worry about the carpets! Don't forget the snow and ice in the winter and my son played hockey, LOL, at my apartment we had a lake for a backyard. Of course they were made to take their skates off outside, LOL. Then there was soccer in the summer and I live on a seacoast so you can imagine it rains a lot, mud!!! I did have runners though too but try and get little boys to stay on them, waste of time. Although i did try to get them to have their drinks at the kitchen table and stop putting the glasses down on the carpet to be tipped over, LOL. If they didn't, they didn't get a drink.
Goody
02-10-2005, 02:30 PM
Absolument! My son had six friends coming in the front and eight going out the back. I wanted those boys to enjoy themselves in my little home and not worry about the carpets! Don't forget the snow and ice in the winter and my son played hockey, LOL, at my apartment we had a lake for a backyard. Of course they were made to take their skates off outside, LOL. Then there was soccer in the summer and I live on a seacoast so you can imagine it rains a lot, mud!!! I did have runners though too but try and get little boys to stay on them, waste of time. Although i did try to get them to have their drinks at the kitchen table and stop putting the glasses down on the carpet to be tipped over, LOL. If they didn't, they didn't get a drink.
aaaahahahahahah! We have our share of cool aid stains, too.
Goody
02-13-2005, 11:35 PM
I am reading a very interesting book on this very subject.
It's called "Why They Kill" by Richard Rhodes.
I highly recommend it. Not the easiest book to read, but gives alot of insight into violent behavior.
Next I want to read "The Creation of Dangerous Violent Criminals" by Lonnie Athens. Has anyone read it?
Thanks, Irish. I will check it out.
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