Poll: Did Darlie Routier murder her children?

[j2mirish]

Well, we're pretty sure Devon had time to raise his legs and kick at his mother. There is a nick on his buttocks which could have come from a kick causing the knife to slip for a second. There is a theory that Darlie was scared Devon had caused enough bruising for her to decide to become a victim too. None of the murders were well-planned or perfectly executed, but things seem to have gone downhill once she cut her throat. Another theory is that she called 911 before she wanted to because her neck would have bled alot at first and frightened her. She was most likely still trying to wipe up blood and doing whatever else she felt she needed to do while she was on the phone with 911. Luminol picked up invisible blood in a swirl pattern on the kitchen counter and in the sink. So it's believed that she cut her throat there.
This was pointed out to me before because at first I too couldn't stand the thought of cutting your own throat. If you needed to make yourself a victim of a knife attack, could you have thrust a knife into your tummy or chest? And looking at it from her intruder story, the killer would have have better access to that area than to her throat. Also, killers do not typically change MO's, i.e. the boys were stabbed, Darlie was cut. From what I've read and seen there weren't any photos taken of Darlie's torso, which could have been bruised by a kicking Devon. I've always felt that was odd, because most victims/suspects are photographed nude. Maybe they were scared of her boobs.
I call Darin a doofus, bless his heart, but I think he's really wiley, which means he good at deception and can easily put on masks.I believe that he came downstairs and helped her. Read Goody's "The Motive" thread.
Another thing is in one of Darlie's stories she calls the intruder a "blur of a man". I love calling her intruder a blur so if you see that, now you'll understand.
It is very difficult to find any humor when on this forum...however there are moments!!

[SpongeBathHotPants]

Do you think Darin help with some of her bruising? The wine glass and vacum to me says that she and Darin were fighting and maybe he pushed her into the wine rack, a glass breaks and after he goes to bed she get the vacume out to clean it up but then the kids start in before she gets a chance to. Just a thought...

[Dani_T]

Do you think Darin help with some of her bruising? The wine glass and vacum to me says that she and Darin were fighting and maybe he pushed her into the wine rack, a glass breaks and after he goes to bed she get the vacume out to clean it up but then the kids start in before she gets a chance to. Just a thought...

I like that idea of the vaccum being out to clean up the wine glass... hadn't thought of that before. Well done :) But if Darin (or an intruder or anyone) had pushed Darlie against the wine rack hard enough to dislodge one glass then we should have seen more than one single glass damaged.

Pssst Goody- After years reading up on this case I had my first Darlie dream last night. I dreamt that they arrested an intruder for the murders LOL

[Goody]

I like that idea of the vaccum being out to clean up the wine glass... hadn't thought of that before. Well done :) But if Darin (or an intruder or anyone) had pushed Darlie against the wine rack hard enough to dislodge one glass then we should have seen more than one single glass damaged.
I like that about the vacuum, too. I also never thought of that. That might very well explain the wheels in the blood, and the starting and stopping of their path that was so confusing. I bet she couldn't figure out how to do it without blood going everywhere and had to abandon the attempt. Would that explain why most of the glass was not in the walking area? Maybe she pushed it aside intentionally, planning to sweep up the larger pieces and vacuum the smaller ones. I can't remember much about the glass evidence right now.

Pssst Goody- After years reading up on this case I had my first Darlie dream last night. I dreamt that they arrested an intruder for the murders LOL
O, my gosh! Wouldn't that be something? That we have ALL been wrong all these years and running off with our mouths??? Was there anything prophetic about the dream or was it just one of those silly dreams? You don't think God's angels were whispering in your ear, do you?????

[Goody]

don't forget a blur or blurs,tee hee
What is really interesting about Darlie is that in the beginning she seemed to be embellishing her story to friends as if she did not think they would ever tell what she told them (and most of them didn't, imo), but that is so like young people who are always gossiping amongst themselves, telling and retelling a story of a car accident they were in or witnessed. It is difficult to see her in that light and match it up to other glimpses we get of her.

[Goody]

don't forget a blur or blurs,tee hee
O, yes, the blur. A blur keeps her from having to positively ID the intruder. That way she won't blame someone else for something they didn't do. Another conflicting image. She didn't mind slaughtering her children but seemed to be concerned about falsely ID'ing someone else. That was Susan Smith's fear too. At least in my opinion. I think she made of the black man image because she felt people would believe her when she couldn't ID anyone in particular. That old southern thing about them all looking alike. Of course, they don't, but in her mind maybe they did. Personally I think you could fill up a room with Leo DiCaprios, Matt Damons, and a dozen other similiarly featured young white men and I wouldn't be able to tell them apart in a line up later.

[IrishMist]

Personally I think you could fill up a room with Leo DiCaprios, Matt Damons, and a dozen other similiarly featured young white men
If you do this, could you let me know when and where? That is a room I'd REALLY like to be in...
:)

[beesy]

O, yes, the blur. A blur keeps her from having to positively ID the intruder. That way she won't blame someone else for something they didn't do. Another conflicting image. She didn't mind slaughtering her children but seemed to be concerned about falsely ID'ing someone else. That was Susan Smith's fear too. At least in my opinion. I think she made of the black man image because she felt people would believe her when she couldn't ID anyone in particular. That old southern thing about them all looking alike. Of course, they don't, but in her mind maybe they did. Personally I think you could fill up a room with Leo DiCaprios, Matt Damons, and a dozen other similiarly featured young white men and I wouldn't be able to tell them apart in a line up later. Dang girl! You are old! nix Matt(cause I don't like him), throw in JOHNNY DEPP and I'm your girl. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_3_2.gif

[bensmom98]

Actually, I think I would prefer Beesy's lineup!!! (Johnny Depp :blowkiss: )

[j2mirish]

O, my gosh! Wouldn't that be something? That we have ALL been wrong all these years and running off with our mouths??? Was there anything prophetic about the dream or was it just one of those silly dreams? You don't think God's angels were whispering in your ear, do you?????
Goody-- I realize you are responding to someones dream...but my....you sound so excited about it...like you are hoping it is truly a possibility......get over it--- it is not possible---- darlie killed her 2 sleeping little boys..............:banghead:

[Goody]

If you do this, could you let me know when and where? That is a room I'd REALLY like to be in...
:)
Well, the whole exercise is to tell them apart. :blowkiss: If I throw you into a room like this, you wouldn't care who was who!

[Goody]

Dang girl! You are old! nix Matt(cause I don't like him), throw in JOHNNY DEPP and I'm your girl. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_3_2.gif (http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_3_2.gif)
I ain't that freaking old! hahahahahahahah~

[Goody]

Goody-- I realize you are responding to someones dream...but my....you sound so excited about it...like you are hoping it is truly a possibility......get over it--- it is not possible---- darlie killed her 2 sleeping little boys..............:banghead:
I believe in prophetic dreams. If Dami had one that is what would excite me.

I agree with you that the evidence, even Darlie's own words, make Darlie the killer. However, I still keep an open mind just in case. The police are convinced Darlie did it, so if they arrested someone, you'd think they'd have to have some pretty strong evidence. If they did, I would be scrutinizing everything they had very very closely before I would just accept that we have all been wrong about this for so long.

I have had my own dream about Darlie, and in it Darin was was downstairs with her before they called 911. I got the impression that he was downstairs but not in the room when it happened. As far as I know there was not anything prophetic about it, but I am always ready to talk about Darlie dreams when they come up.

[IrishMist]

Well, the whole exercise is to tell them apart. :blowkiss: If I throw you into a room like this, you wouldn't care who was who!
You've got a point there, Goody!! :D

[beesy]

Well, the whole exercise is to tell them apart. :blowkiss: If I throw you into a room like this, you wouldn't care who was who!I would care! Leo's cute, but he is NO JOHNNY DEPP! A little bit of Johnny goes a long way and I wouldn't mind if some of him swung by my house sometime!

[beesy]

Yeah she just lost another appeal so now she has her Federal appeals I believe. A poster on ezboards explained it all on the appeals. We are all starting to wonder now if she is going to implicate Darin when she gets near the needle given what's happened lately. I think Darin wants a divorce and to move on with Drake. Jeana explained it all to me somewhere in the Darlie thread. Can't remember which one, maybe she does

[beesy]

[QUOTE]O, yes, the blur. A blur keeps her from having to positively ID the intruder. That way she won't blame someone else for something they didn't do. Another conflicting image. She didn't mind slaughtering her children but seemed to be concerned about falsely ID'ing someone else
I think it was more that she didn't have to come up with as many details. Did he have blue eyes or brown eyes? What color hair? Seeing a blur allows her to skip all of that. All she had to do was add some height/weight numbers and clothes
That was Susan Smith's fear too. At least in my opinion. I think she made of the black man image because she felt people would believe her when she couldn't ID anyone in particular. That old southern thing about them all looking alike. Of course, they don't, but in her mind maybe they did. Also in that part of SC, black men are considered the "bad guys", the type of person to carjack somebody, more believable in her eyes. Black people usually have brown eyes and are black(duh), with some shading differences. Less details needed, like you said.

[beesy]

It is very difficult to find any humor when on this forum...however there are moments!! Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week! :woohoo:

[Goody]

[/color]
Also in that part of SC, black men are considered the "bad guys", the type of person to carjack somebody, more believable in her eyes. Black people usually have brown eyes and are black(duh), with some shading differences. Less details needed, like you said.
Are you saying SC is more racially charged than Virginia or Tennessee? I don't think so. I think it might have been Susan's perception. Seems she was surrounded by rednecks who were probably racist, at least on the surface. Overall, I think most whites period think it is easier to say a black person did something because they can't be expected to ID them specifically. Not that all black people look alike,but that many white people THINK they can't ID most black men. That takes the pressure off of them. They don't have to come up with a real bad guy, just a very general description. Isn't it interesting how people think.....it is easier to kill a loved one and lie about it afterwards than it is to falsely accuse someone else of doing it. Well, I guess you can't say they don't have ANY conscience.

[beesy]

Are you saying SC is more racially charged than Virginia or Tennessee? I don't think so. I think it might have been Susan's perception. Seems she was surrounded by rednecks who were probably racist, at least on the surface.
Of course not Goody, that's a stupid question. I said THAT PART OF SC, in Susan's eyes, which is exactly what just said.

[QUOTE]Overall, I think most whites period think it is easier to say a black person did something because they can't be expected to ID them specificallyAgain, in Susan's eyes, it was more believable to say a black man carjacked and stole her car and children. In some places, it is more believable to say a Hispanic man was at fault. This belief can apply to the victim, even cops. Don't get your knickers in a knot, I don't believe blacks or Hispanics are more prone to violence, but many people do and somebody trying to blame someone else for their crime will use what is the most believable to the majority of people in their area.
Not that all black people look alike,but that many white people THINK they can't ID most black men. That takes the pressure off of them. They don't have to come up with a real bad guy, just a very general description
Didn't I say that?http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_19_4.gif
Isn't it interesting how people think.....it is easier to kill a loved one and lie about it afterwards than it is to falsely accuse someone else of doing it. Well, I guess you can't say they don't have ANY conscience.
Yes, you can because I don't think that's why people like Darlie and Susan are vague in their descriptions. It's for themselves, not anybody else. You just said yourself that in Susan's eyes, a black man is more believable because many white people think they look alike. Most of the main details are going to be the same Goody, like it or not. Maybe different shadings, hairstyles(which she could have easily said short), height/weight, not very much to remember. You start bringing a white guy into the picture, you've got to come up with eye color, hair color, hair styles,which can vary much more widely than blacks, tatts, which even in the dark would show up easier on a white guy . Darlie didn't even bother with that at all. She saw a "blur". Susan had to come up with something since she claims her man was right at her window. In areas of the country which don't have many blacks, someone might hesitate to accuse a black man.
This is just like Darlie using her TA. Her story has changed so much that she finally decided a "blur" attacked her and her children.

[Goody]

Actually, Beesy, I think we are both saying the same thing, just in different ways. Initially, I meant that creating a vague description provides a safety area for the liar, in the liar's mind, not necessarily anyone else's. And that is the whole point. How can I get past IDing someone without being specific? I mean, if you ID the wrong guy and it turns out he can prove he was not there at the time, it could be a huge problem for the liar/killer. So assuming he thinks that far ahead, the motive for not making a positive ID is pretty obvious.

On the other hand, some might not be so anxious to send the wrong man to the gallows. As insane as it might sound, they apparently have justified the murder in their own mind, but would feel guilty about a false ID. Like the wrongly accused would haunt them for life. You wouldn't find it in a robbery/murder but certainly could in those middle class murders where thugs are not involved.

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana explained it all to me somewhere in the Darlie thread. Can't remember which one, maybe she does


I've never heard one thing that would make me think that Darin wants a divorce. He may be thinking it privately, but I don't believe that's ever been discussed publicly.

[Goody]

I've never heard one thing that would make me think that Darin wants a divorce. He may be thinking it privately, but I don't believe that's ever been discussed publicly.
Correct, but he did say in one interview that it would be easier for him if she were guilty because then he could get a divorce and go on with his life. He then made it very clear that he thinks Darlie is very definitely innocent. I wonder if he would sing the same tune if he faced charges.

[beesy]

I've never heard one thing that would make me think that Darin wants a divorce. He may be thinking it privately, but I don't believe that's ever been discussed publicly. Sigh...see what I mean Goody? I thought cami wanted more info about the appeals process which you, Jeana explained to me, which is why I said Jeana explained it to me before

[cami]

Sigh...see what I mean Goody? I thought cami wanted more info about the appeals process which you, Jeana explained to me, which is why I said Jeana explained it to me before

No, Cami knows all about the appeal process. it was explained to me two year's ago by a poster on C&J. The problem is not addressing what you are referring too and skimming. I'm guilty of that all the time. It's just missed communication, no biggy.

I referred to that in my post but you missed it and you let me know that Jeana had explained the appeals process in another thread. Jeana missed that and thought you meant she had explained a divorce/move on scenario. Hope this clears up the confusion a bit.

[Goody]

Sigh...see what I mean Goody? I thought cami wanted more info about the appeals process which you, Jeana explained to me, which is why I said Jeana explained it to me before
Sounds like everyone is confused to me, so why don't we just dump it and move on. Happens all the time on these boards and the more you try to explain, the worse it gets. So I think a new direction is in order.

[beesy]

Sounds like everyone is confused to me, so why don't we just dump it and move on. Happens all the time on these boards and the more you try to explain, the worse it gets. So I think a new direction is in order. yes ma'am

[Goody]

yes ma'am
Am I getting too bossy? LOL! Oops. Just thought you guys were in a standoff that wasn't going anywhere. But do go on if you like. Didn't mean to intrude.

[beesy]

Am I getting too bossy? LOL! Oops. Just thought you guys were in a standoff that wasn't going anywhere. But do go on if you like. Didn't mean to intrude. Oh hush, you were right which is why there aren't anymore posts on the subject. You're anything but bossy, Goody dear.:blowkiss:

[Goody]

Oh hush, you were right which is why there aren't anymore posts on the subject. You're anything but bossy, Goody dear.:blowkiss: :innocent:
Purrrrrrrrr...........

Someone call Darlie's defense attys and find out when they are going to file their first fed appeal! I am dying to know!!!!

[cami]

:innocent:
Purrrrrrrrr...........

Someone call Darlie's defense attys and find out when they are going to file their first fed appeal! I am dying to know!!!!

I was under the impression that it was December. That they had a year to file after the state conviction becomes final? Aren't the Final Findings on the justice site the end of the State appeals? They have something new on the Justice site people. CCA Oral Arguments. I'm listening right now.

[Goody]

I was under the impression that it was December. That they had a year to file after the state conviction becomes final? Aren't the Final Findings on the justice site the end of the State appeals? They have something new on the Justice site people. CCA Oral Arguments. I'm listening right now.
I cannot find anything on oral arguments and definitely nothing new, so can you give me a link?

[cami]

I cannot find anything on oral arguments and definitely nothing new, so can you give me a link?

Here's the link (http://www.justicefordarlie.net/evidence/evd-004.php)

If that doesn't work, just go into evidence and then go onto the lower right hand menu and you will see it blinking there.

[Goody]

Here's the link (http://www.justicefordarlie.net/evidence/evd-004.php)

If that doesn't work, just go into evidence and then go onto the lower right hand menu and you will see it blinking there.
Thanks, Cami. Now i have to wait for TJ to go to bed before I can listen. grrrr..... Do you know how old this is?

[cami]

Thanks, Cami. Now i have to wait for TJ to go to bed before I can listen. grrrr..... Do you know how old this is?

I think it's the state appeals so it's at least a year old but no I don't know how old it is.

[Goody]

I think it's the state appeals so it's at least a year old but no I don't know how old it is.
It's old. Shucks, I was hoping it was the federal appeal.

[ElleaBoo]

I am aussie so have not seen much of this case other than what is on cable.Does Darlie have a date for execution? How long has she been on death row? We do not have the death penalty over here we need it tho. We would rather pay to have cold blooded murders in the lap of luxury til they decide to do us a favour and die.:slap: I have read that most death row inmates have 10 years of appeals before they meet their maker? Thanks :innocent:

[cami]

I am aussie so have not seen much of this case other than what is on cable.Does Darlie have a date for execution? How long has she been on death row? We do not have the death penalty over here we need it tho. We would rather pay to have cold blooded murders in the lap of luxury til they decide to do us a favour and die.:slap: I have read that most death row inmates have 10 years of appeals before they meet their maker? Thanks :innocent:

No, Darlie does not have an ED as yet. Her state appeals ended last year and now she moves on to appeals at the federal level. Given the problems with her trial transcript, her state appeals lasted longer than is usual. Only when all her appeals have been exhausted will an ED be set. She's been on DR since her conviction in early 1997.

Actually here's a link to the appeal process in Texas that might help you.

http://www.txexecutions.org/primer.asp#appeal

I live in a country with no DP either but I am not in favour of it. To each his own eh?

Welcome to the board.

[SnootyVixen]

No, Darlie does not have an ED as yet. Her state appeals ended last year and now she moves on to appeals at the federal level. Given the problems with her trial transcript, her state appeals lasted longer than is usual. Only when all her appeals have been exhausted will an ED be set. She's been on DR since her conviction in early 1997..

What I think is execution would be blessing for Darlie. so many years gone by. So many family lives destructed have been. Even if Darlie innocent I don see no good for future for nobody. I think lives lost for all family and Darlie and no hope. very sad.

[michelle]

Yes, Darlie is guilty. I also think the Aisenbergs had something to do with Sabrina's disappearance. (Sorry--subject change.)
Karen
I agree about the aisenbergs, Darlie, i still wonder, deep down it reminds me of diane downs murdering her kids but its so hard to fathom a mom doing this..:(

[scandi]

The vote is closed, but I would have voted guilty in killing her children. From my study, which is having watched a special about her on CTV, she thought the children were interrupting her sex life and that is was she really cared about most in life. Remaining beautiful and as sexy as she could be.

Scandi

[Goody]

What I think is execution would be blessing for Darlie. so many years gone by. So many family lives destructed have been. Even if Darlie innocent I don see no good for future for nobody. I think lives lost for all family and Darlie and no hope. very sad.
I bet Darlie doesn't agree with you. LOL!

[Goody]

I agree about the aisenbergs, Darlie, i still wonder, deep down it reminds me of diane downs murdering her kids but its so hard to fathom a mom doing this..:(
Yes, it is but look at all the mom's who have. Susan Smith, Diane Downs, Debra Milke, Dr Debora Green, Julie Rea Harper....not to mention the ones who were out and out nuts like Andrea Yates and the woman who stoned her kids to death while back. There was a young woman in Tennessee who parked her car in the hot sun deliberately and locked her children inside to suffocate. Moms do not automatically rise to the responsibilities of motherhood just because they give birth.

[britgirl]

I am aussie so have not seen much of this case other than what is on cable.Does Darlie have a date for execution? How long has she been on death row? We do not have the death penalty over here we need it tho. We would rather pay to have cold blooded murders in the lap of luxury til they decide to do us a favour and die.:slap: I have read that most death row inmates have 10 years of appeals before they meet their maker? Thanks :innocent:
Hello! What's your opinion on Darlie's guilt/innocence?
The death penalty over here was abolished in 1965...and "life in prison" can, pretty much, mean anything from 10 to 50 years.

[SnootyVixen]

I bet Darlie doesn't agree with you. LOL!

she want killers of sons caught. but she don care what happen to her I don think. Why would she?

[Goody]

Hello! What's your opinion on Darlie's guilt/innocence?
The death penalty over here was abolished in 1965...and "life in prison" can, pretty much, mean anything from 10 to 50 years.
Hi, britgirl. Where is Leisure in the UK? I know I spelled it wrong but I can't see it on this page. LOL! So bear with me. Okay?

[Goody]

she want killers of sons caught. but she don care what happen to her I don think. Why would she?
Because her life isn't over. If Darlie didn't care what happened to her, she would tell the truth about what happened that night. Even if you believe she is innocent, you have to admit that she lied about the events that night. She ought to fess up. It is the right thing to do, but she won't because she is still holding onto to the hope that she can beat this thing.

I have a question for you. If Darlie is as innocent as you think she is, why haven't the family been out there raising money to hire private investigators to find this killer? To me that is a no brainer. That is the very first step, right after hiring a good defense team. You hire qualified people to find the real killer. If you can't, you go out investigating yourself. No one, not her parents or siblings or cousins or uncles or even Darin has ever even tried. Why is that?

[ElleaBoo]

Hello! What's your opinion on Darlie's guilt/innocence?
The death penalty over here was abolished in 1965...and "life in prison" can, pretty much, mean anything from 10 to 50 years.
G'day,
My opinion is that she did murder her 2 sons. I also feel she was not alone in the covering up of her crime and that her husband knows alot more than he is saying. Yes we all show our grief in different ways but as a mum of 4 I could not see myself being able to put one foot in front of the other let alone have a grave side party it seems so insane to me. We have not had the death penalty here in many many years I am all for it coming back. In the case in Australia of Anita Cobby I do not see the need to pay to keep these scum bags alive I would much rather see my taxes go into education and to cancer research and things of that kind than pay to keep murders alive. This is just my opinion it would be a dull boring world if we all had the same opinions and beliefs.
I love reading all the different thoughts and opinions on here. I also find myself seeing things from a whole new prospective at times.

Take Care
http://www.nostalgiacentral.com/years/1986/anitacobby.htm

[Goody]

http://www.thecrimeweb.com/murder_of_anita_cobby.htm

Here's a link to the Anita Cobby case. Brutal, brutal crime. There is a book on it, too, though it seems to be about serial killers. I am not quite sure how that fits in.

[ElleaBoo]

I also put a link on the bottom of my post for the Anita Cobby murder. Yes it was VERY brutal. I refered back to it to show just one reason why we should have the death penalty. I am not sure as to how it would fit into the serial killers catagory either. :waitasec:

[Goody]

I also put a link on the bottom of my post for the Anita Cobby murder. Yes it was VERY brutal. I refered back to it to show just one reason why we should have the death penalty. I am not sure as to how it would fit into the serial killers catagory either. :waitasec:
Sorry. I didn't see your link, but I saw it on my search. Well, that's cool. We have two for people to pick from now. It was too much to read at one sitting but I put it in my favorites to read more later. It sounds like an interesting case. I am studying about what makes dangerous killers right now. Just finished a book by Lonnie Athens and am now reading one on his biography that is analyzing his work. It is very interesting. It so far doesn't explain Darlie but it no doubt would explain the thugs who killed Anita.

[ElleaBoo]

Sorry. I didn't see your link, but I saw it on my search. Well, that's cool. We have two for people to pick from now. It was too much to read at one sitting but I put it in my favorites to read more later. It sounds like an interesting case. I am studying about what makes dangerous killers right now. Just finished a book by Lonnie Athens and am now reading one on his biography that is analyzing his work. It is very interesting. It so far doesn't explain Darlie but it no doubt would explain the thugs who killed Anita. There is another case very similar to Anita's that may also may hold some interest for you. Her name was Janine Balding. This murder took place after Anita's and many circumstances are eerily similar. This case is very prominate in my mind because it happened 10mins from the house I grew up in. I was just learning independance when this murder took place and it was all taken away. I can still remember my mum telling my sisiter and I that we now could not go out with our friends and her explaining to us about evil people. At a young age this case had a big impact on me.

http://www.thecrimeweb.com/murder_of_janine_balding.htm

[SnootyVixen]

I bet Darlie doesn't agree with you. LOL!

I think she do.

[SnootyVixen]

[QUOTE=Goody]Because her life isn't over. If Darlie didn't care what happened to her, she would tell the truth about what happened that night. Even if you believe she is innocent, you have to admit that she lied about the events that night. She ought to fess up. It is the right thing to do, but she won't because she is still holding onto to the hope that she can beat this thing.

So you say. That does not mean it is the truth. Not at all. Maybe she don't "fess up" because there nothing to fess. I think you think it's the right thing to do because you think there is something there and you want to know it. LOL

[color=blue]I have a question for you. If Darlie is as innocent as you think she is, why haven't the family been out there raising money to hire private investigators to find this killer? To me that is a no brainer.

Gee Goody, to me a no brainer also. Darlie has a bunch of lawyers working for free and they have a bunch of investigators working for free. I thought you all knew that. There is no need for the family to raise money. Not that they have anything more to sell anyway.


That is the very first step, right after hiring a good defense team. You hire qualified people to find the real killer. If you can't, you go out investigating yourself. No one, not her parents or siblings or cousins or uncles or even Darin has ever even tried. Why is that?

oooh you are not correct here. How do you get your information about what people do? Those telling you are not right. How do you think anything of the newest clues have come to be? Not by the police investigating for sure. Naturally that stopped after the trial was over, as it would be wont to do. Would any of us know that fingerprint in blood on the couch table was not damons if not for Darin? No Davis and Shook and the gray haired man with beard were bery happy to leave it as Damon's fingerprint were they not? You know they were. Only by Darin's work and Darin's expense was it able to be found that it was not a fingerprint of Damon. The prosecution allowed the little boys to be buried without the fingerprints. They had the requirement to get the fingerprints by law but they did not. They should have dug up the little boys but they did not. Darin, as the papa should not have had to do that. Do you not agree? It was a hard thing to do I am sure.
Please do not make a mistake and think that i have thought she is innocent for sure. That is not true. But I think she may be. And whether innocent or not, what I have say above did happen and is not a lie and cannot be "spinned". It just plain is and we all should face it and say yes it happened and what does it mean.

[britgirl]

Hi, britgirl. Where is Leisure in the UK? I know I spelled it wrong but I can't see it on this page. LOL! So bear with me. Okay?
Hi! Leicester= middle of England, close to Nottingham and Birmingham. Small city, not a lot happens. I grew up in east London and miss it like crazy!

[britgirl]

G'day,
My opinion is that she did murder her 2 sons. I also feel she was not alone in the covering up of her crime and that her husband knows alot more than he is saying. Yes we all show our grief in different ways but as a mum of 4 I could not see myself being able to put one foot in front of the other let alone have a grave side party it seems so insane to me. We have not had the death penalty here in many many years I am all for it coming back. In the case in Australia of Anita Cobby I do not see the need to pay to keep these scum bags alive I would much rather see my taxes go into education and to cancer research and things of that kind than pay to keep murders alive. This is just my opinion it would be a dull boring world if we all had the same opinions and beliefs.
I love reading all the different thoughts and opinions on here. I also find myself seeing things from a whole new prospective at times.

Take Care
http://www.nostalgiacentral.com/years/1986/anitacobby.htm
Hi! I think she's guilty too. When I first heard about her I thought she "must" be innocent- purely based on the fact that there is a lot of controversy over her case and she has a large fanbase who support her intruder story...but I've been reading about the blood evidence which, I think, proves her guilt, and there are so many other factors...not sure about Darin's role though...

I'd never heard of Anita Cobby. That article made me so furious...:furious:

[Goody]

I think she do.
Why would you say that? Are you writing to her?

[Goody]

[QUOTE=Goody]Because her life isn't over. If Darlie didn't care what happened to her, she would tell the truth about what happened that night. Even if you believe she is innocent, you have to admit that she lied about the events that night. She ought to fess up. It is the right thing to do, but she won't because she is still holding onto to the hope that she can beat this thing.

So you say. That does not mean it is the truth. Not at all. Maybe she don't "fess up" because there nothing to fess. I think you think it's the right thing to do because you think there is something there and you want to know it. LOL
Bingo! But it is the right thing to do. No one can go over her testimony and believe she told the truth. There are many things .....like not remembering if she told Mercedes she was dreaming about where the intruder was that night. That was total bull. You could tell that she was running scared and desperately trying not to commit herself one way or the other because she didn't know if Mercedes would be called or what she would say. I don't believe that a mother would lie about anything about the murder of her children period, not unless she had something to hide. And something to hide about the crime spells G-U-I-L-T-Y to me.



[QUOTE=Goody]Gee Goody, to me a no brainer also. Darlie has a bunch of lawyers working for free and they have a bunch of investigators working for free. I thought you all knew that. There is no need for the family to raise money. Not that they have anything more to sell anyway.
Too bad they haven't found the real killers yet. hahahahahah. They must be partying with Nicole Brown's and Ron Goldman's real killer.



[QUOTE=Goody]oooh you are not correct here. How do you get your information about what people do? Those telling you are not right.
If these pro bono investigators had turned up anything supporting her claims it would be all over the news.

[QUOTE=Goody]How do you think anything of the newest clues have come to be? Not by the police investigating for sure. Naturally that stopped after the trial was over, as it would be wont to do. Would any of us know that fingerprint in blood on the couch table was not damons if not for Darin? No Davis and Shook and the gray haired man with beard were bery happy to leave it as Damon's fingerprint were they not? You know they were. Only by Darin's work and Darin's expense was it able to be found that it was not a fingerprint of Damon.
So are you saying that Darin paid for Jantz's services?


[QUOTE=Goody]The prosecution allowed the little boys to be buried without the fingerprints. They had the requirement to get the fingerprints by law but they did not. They should have dug up the little boys but they did not. Darin, as the papa should not have had to do that. Do you not agree? It was a hard thing to do I am sure.{/QUOTE]

I agree, but mistakes are made and you gotta work with what you have. I personally don't have a problem with the exumation of a body for more investigation, including additional autopsies, fingerprinting, DNA testing, etc. You won't hear me criticize them for doing that.

[QUOTE=SnootyVixen][QUOTE=Goody]Please do not make a mistake and think that i have thought she is innocent for sure. That is not true. But I think she may be. And whether innocent or not, what I have say above did happen and is not a lie and cannot be "spinned". It just plain is and we all should face it and say yes it happened and what does it mean.
I don't understand. What does all the above mean? That Darin is a stand up guy? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't think we will know for sure until Darlie dies unless she is given a new trial. I just hope she doesn't leave this world without telling what really happened that night because if she doesn't settle her debt here, she will carry it with her into the hereafter. That would not be a good thing for her.

[ElleaBoo]

I have a few questions about this case:

1. Was the area they lived in prone to violence and breakins?
2. You would assume that someone as cold blooded as to kill 2 little boys so violently would have struck again? I would say with 100% certainy that they would have struck again by now?

Hmmm these 2 simple points tell the whole story to me. I do not think there has been any murders similar to this or even in the same area because the killer is already behind bars waiting to die!!!

[cami]

Hello! What's your opinion on Darlie's guilt/innocence?
The death penalty over here was abolished in 1965...and "life in prison" can, pretty much, mean anything from 10 to 50 years.

10 to 50 years! Really. In Canada it's 25 and you get out, unless you have been declared a Dangerous Offender, then your sentence is indeterminate, i.e. you never get out. There's also judicial review provision (the faint hope clause) where an individual, after serving 15 years of a life sentence, can apply for an early parole, it was established by parliament when the death penalty was abolished in 1976.

[Goody]

I have a few questions about this case:

1. Was the area they lived in prone to violence and breakins?
2. You would assume that someone as cold blooded as to kill 2 little boys so violently would have struck again? I would say with 100% certainy that they would have struck again by now?

Hmmm these 2 simple points tell the whole story to me. I do not think there has been any murders similar to this or even in the same area because the killer is already behind bars waiting to die!!!
It was a new upper scale subdivision, only about 4 or 5 years old. As far as I know the entire state of Texas has not seen another double child murder like this one attributed to an intruder. Nor has the entire country, for that matter. I would think something like that would make headlines, esp if it could be linked to the Routier case.

Another thing is there were two street lights shining down on the property (house and yard) plus a flood light in the back yard that had a motion detector that when tripped would turn it on (it never went on) and three flood lights in the front yard (which was not very large) on a water fountain. The place was lit up like main street. The house was on a corner near the entrance to the subdivision. All of these things make it a bad choice for burglars yet we are to believe these particular burglars ignored all the negatives and went for it anyway. Then they walked right past the wallet with the credit cards and money, and the counter with the jewelry spread out on it, and they walked past it twice without touching it. So now we are to believe that they killed the boys for absolutely not reason. They didn't even have to go in the family room to grab the stash and leave, so why would they grab a knife out of the butcher block and go in there anyway? The story makes no sense.

[SnootyVixen]

Why would you say that? Are you writing to her?


Are you speaking to me? I don write to her ever. never Do you?

[SnootyVixen]

Bingo! But it is the right thing to do. No one can go over her testimony and believe she told the truth. There are many things .....like not remembering if she told Mercedes she was dreaming about where the intruder was that night. That was total bull. You could tell that she was running scared and desperately trying not to commit herself one way or the other because she didn't know if Mercedes would be called or what she would say. I don't believe that a mother would lie about anything about the murder of her children period, not unless she had something to hide. And something to hide about the crime spells G-U-I-L-T-Y to me.

I think you know me Goody and I don claim to have the knowledge of what people do or should do. So I skip this part.




Too bad they haven't found the real killers yet. hahahahahah. They must be partying with Nicole Brown's and Ron Goldman's real killer.

This is bery without taste Goody.


If these pro bono investigators had turned up anything supporting her claims it would be all over the news.

So you like to say. But you don know, I don know too.


So are you saying that Darin paid for Jantz's services?


I am saying that Darin dug his little sons up from their grave because the law did not do so and the fingerprints were needed. To me that means Darin did somethig like what you were say that they should do. Don it?



I don't understand. What does all the above mean? That Darin is a stand up guy? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't think we will know for sure until Darlie dies unless she is given a new trial. I just hope she doesn't leave this world without telling what really happened that night because if she doesn't settle her debt here, she will carry it with her into the hereafter. That would not be a good thing for her.

I don know where you get what you say I say. I don think I say all this. I just say that Daein did do something to help try to prove Darlie innocent. That was your question I think. I do not know wht kind of guy he is. But I don know that he is a bad prson. In my belief Darlie cannot settle her debt here if she is guilty no matter what she say or do. It goes with her and it settled then. So it does not matter if she tells if guilty here.

[SnootyVixen]

[color=blue]It was a new upper scale subdivision, only about 4 or 5 years old. As far as I know the entire state of Texas has not seen another double child murder like this one attributed to an intruder. ]

Goody, do you forget to remembr about the little girl Krystal and her friend who had both of the throats cut and one died and the man snuck in the house by the window and there were adult in the house who he nevr woke. Other children sleep also and he not kill them just go for the two littlw girls and thought both killed. remember her?

[Goody]

Goody, do you forget to remembr about the little girl Krystal and her friend who had both of the throats cut and one died and the man snuck in the house by the window and there were adult in the house who he nevr woke. Other children sleep also and he not kill them just go for the two littlw girls and thought both killed. remember her?
No, that is the case that put him where he is. But his motive in that crime was rape. He had a thing for the girl who survived. He went there to rape her because he had seen her stepfather earlier that day and he said he would be out of town for the weekend. He knew the family and had been over there on several occasions as a guest. After he found out the man in the family would be gone, he went over there to rape the girl, thinking he would kill her and the mother, but when he got there, he was surprised by the fact that she had a guest in her room spending the night. That was the little girl he killed. He slashed the first girl's throat too but she didn't die. (Or was it the other way around? ) Anyway, he left the house because the others were still sleeping and didn't know he was there. He was going to go after them but then decided he had already been there too long and better get out before he got caught. So he fled without bothering the others.

That in way compares to him killing Joel Kirkpatrick for no reason at all and not even trying to kill his mother who claims she was hanging onto his leg as he dragged her outside. His only attempt to hurt her was to hit here in order to free himself so he could flee. It doesn't follow his M.O. in any other case.

[Goody]

Are you speaking to me? I don write to her ever. never Do you?
Nope. Not my cup of tea. I am afraid it would color my views.

[Goody]

I don know where you get what you say I say. I don think I say all this. I just say that Daein did do something to help try to prove Darlie innocent. That was your question I think. I do not know wht kind of guy he is. But I don know that he is a bad prson. In my belief Darlie cannot settle her debt here if she is guilty no matter what she say or do. It goes with her and it settled then. So it does not matter if she tells if guilty here.
Heaven would be a pretty empty place if that were true, I think, but I am willing to concede that it is possible.

You are right that Darin did do some things, but for the most part that was just raising money for the atty and his expenses. There were some investigators in it but I think if my loved one were in this pickle and I truly believed she was innocent, I would be doing my own investigating, independent of attys, police, prosecutor's office, etc. I have never heard anyone on Darlie's side ever talk about doing anything like that. I just think they would if they truly believed her to innocent.

[Desilu]

New member here. Just wanted to pop in and say hello and how much I enjoy reading everyone's posts, it's been very informative reading everything.

I'm from Dallas and have lived here all my life, I kept up with the trial when it was occuring but didn't delve too deeply into it until I found out that a good friend knew Darlie both in a professional and friend capacity and got 're-interested' again.

I was just able to purchase MTJD on Amazon for list price, and its very eye opening to connect the pictures with everything I have read about the case.

Anyways, enjoying everyone's thoughts and debates!

[deanws]

New member here. Just wanted to pop in and say hello and how much I enjoy reading everyone's posts, it's been very informative reading everything.

I'm from Dallas and have lived here all my life, I kept up with the trial when it was occuring but didn't delve too deeply into it until I found out that a good friend knew Darlie both in a professional and friend capacity and got 're-interested' again.

I was just able to purchase MTJD on Amazon for list price, and its very eye opening to connect the pictures with everything I have read about the case.

Anyways, enjoying everyone's thoughts and debates!Welcome. Do you have any personal insight on her personality or any facts that we don't know? If so, please spill!!!! :dance:

[j2mirish]

Heaven would be a pretty empty place if that were true, I think, but I am willing to concede that it is possible.
why would you say heaven would be an empty place if murderes were unable to make things right with god? do you think there are more murderers and bad people than you do GOOD people who have lived their lives to the fullest?:cool:? i sure hope i misunderstood you- because that statement reallyyyyyyy throws me off----

[Goody]

why would you say heaven would be an empty place if murderes were unable to make things right with god? do you think there are more murderers and bad people than you do GOOD people who have lived their lives to the fullest?:cool:? i sure hope i misunderstood you- because that statement reallyyyyyyy throws me off----
I wasn't specifically addressing murderers. We are all sinners with debts to settle before we leave this life. Snooty says we take it with us and it is settled in the hereafter. And that could be true. I really don't know. I was just thinking that if only those who don't have any baggage to carry into the hereafter with them are allowed in heaven, it will be a pretty empty place because most everyone has something he should repent for. (I tend to believe though that if we settle the debt on this side, we'll be forgiven by man and by God, and there won't be anything to carry to the other side.)

As for GOOD people, there aren't any. Don't you remember what it says in the bible?...that only God is GOOD.

[Goody]

New member here. Just wanted to pop in and say hello and how much I enjoy reading everyone's posts, it's been very informative reading everything.

I'm from Dallas and have lived here all my life, I kept up with the trial when it was occuring but didn't delve too deeply into it until I found out that a good friend knew Darlie both in a professional and friend capacity and got 're-interested' again.

I was just able to purchase MTJD on Amazon for list price, and its very eye opening to connect the pictures with everything I have read about the case.

Anyways, enjoying everyone's thoughts and debates!
Welcome, Desi. O, please tell us what your friend thinks of Darlie. What was she really like? How did she treat the boys? Is she as materialistic as they say? I hope you will post with us and tell us the little things that aren't in the books.

[j2mirish]

I wasn't specifically addressing murderers. We are all sinners with debts to settle before we leave this life. Snooty says we take it with us and it is settled in the hereafter. And that could be true. I really don't know. I was just thinking that if only those who don't have any baggage to carry into the hereafter with them are allowed in heaven, it will be a pretty empty place because most everyone has something he should repent for. (I tend to believe though that if we settle the debt on this side, we'll be forgiven by man and by God, and there won't be anything to carry to the other side.)

As for GOOD people, there aren't any. Don't you remember what it says in the bible?...that only God is GOOD.
ia m not going to try to turn this into a religious debate- but i will say that if someone like darlie is sitting next to me in heaven........i will not understand, nor appreciate it- and unlike your bible quote- i am not implying we all dont sin-- but i can guarantee you- i am a good person-

[Desilu]

I do wish I had a lot to spill!

This was my best friend from high school and my early 20s, we lost touch after she got married and then reconnected after the murders (I can't for the life of me remember what year now). Anyways, my friend (I'll call her Beth) was Darlie's hair stylist and sometimes party buddy.

When we got together again, I found out that she had divorced, which steered us into the topic of what happened to her marriage. She was so distraught after the boys were killed it literally caused problems in her marriage and her husband couldn't understand why she couldn't get past the grief after awhile. She believed Darlie was guilty and it just destroyed her knowing that. I really didn't push too much into her relationship with Darlie or what caused her to believe she was guilty, because she was in so much pain from it and I didn't want to add to it.

But I can tell you Beth said Darlie Kee was VERY upset she wouldn't testify on Darlie's behalf and just badgered her to do so until Beth out and out refused.

[HeartofTexas]

but i will say that if someone like darlie is sitting next to me in heaven........i will not understand, nor appreciate it- and unlike your bible quote- i am not implying we all dont sin-- but i can guarantee you- i am a good person-
Let's assume that if you are sitting in Heaven next to Darlie that God will have reminded you by that time that "judge not, lest ye be judged" is the way He intends for us to live. Not that I remember to live that way very often! But I think it is the way He intends for us to be.

I have read about many, many dastardly crimes in my life. I have also watched first-hand as people have been treated in a less than human way. My brain hates all of it and wants desperately for these people to be behind bars and punished for their inhumanity to man. However, my heart truly believes that "until you've walked a mile in someone's shoes", you don't really know who they areor what they've endured to make them the way they are. My mother would be a prime example. She was a woman capable of extreme verbal and physical cruelty, and I spent much of my younger years hating her on a daily basis. However, I'm not sure what's reasonable to expect from a woman whose own mother buried a hatchet in my mother's head when she was 4 years old. From there, my mother went first to a hospital and later to an orphanage, and my grandmother went to an insane asylum. What chance do people born to that kind of cruel and unusual punishment have to ever live normal lives? My mother was born in the 1920's, and there was no therapy or help for her. She was just expected to put it behind her and move on. And she did, but she carried that baggage right into the lives of all of her children. I, OTOH, turned out a bit better than my mother but only because therapy was available for my generation. I was able to work through some of my problems which enabled me to function at a much higher level in society. My heart says that God forgives all of our crimes, even the most heinous ones, because God knows what each of us has endured on this earth. Obviously, we have to ask for forgiveness first, but I do believe God is a forgiving God. That's JMHO.

[j2mirish]

Let's assume that if you are sitting in Heaven next to Darlie that God will have reminded you by that time that "judge not, lest ye be judged" is the way He intends for us to live. Not that I remember to live that way very often! But I think it is the way He intends for us to be.

I have read about many, many dastardly crimes in my life. I have also watched first-hand as people have been treated in a less than human way. My brain hates all of it and wants desperately for these people to be behind bars and punished for their inhumanity to man. However, my heart truly believes that "until you've walked a mile in someone's shoes", you don't really know who they areor what they've endured to make them the way they are. My mother would be a prime example. She was a woman capable of extreme verbal and physical cruelty, and I spent much of my younger years hating her on a daily basis. However, I'm not sure what's reasonable to expect from a woman whose own mother buried a hatchet in my mother's head when she was 4 years old. From there, my mother went first to a hospital and later to an orphanage, and my grandmother went to an insane asylum. What chance do people born to that kind of cruel and unusual punishment have to ever live normal lives? My mother was born in the 1920's, and there was no therapy or help for her. She was just expected to put it behind her and move on. And she did, but she carried that baggage right into the lives of all of her children. I, OTOH, turned out a bit better than my mother but only because therapy was available for my generation. I was able to work through some of my problems which enabled me to function at a much higher level in society. My heart says that God forgives all of our crimes, even the most heinous ones, because God knows what each of us has endured on this earth. Obviously, we have to ask for forgiveness first, but I do believe God is a forgiving God. That's JMHO.
hot- this will be my last comment- as i stated i am not trying to get into religious debate-- i would not begin to place your mother and people like darlie in the same catagory--

[cami]

Heaven would be a pretty empty place if that were true, I think, but I am willing to concede that it is possible.

You are right that Darin did do some things, but for the most part that was just raising money for the atty and his expenses. There were some investigators in it but I think if my loved one were in this pickle and I truly believed she was innocent, I would be doing my own investigating, independent of attys, police, prosecutor's office, etc. I have never heard anyone on Darlie's side ever talk about doing anything like that. I just think they would if they truly believed her to innocent.

The first thing Darin should have done was copped to the fact that he was trying to have his house burglarized. Why wait six years? I don't believe his robbery motive for a second. Do you Snooty? And I don't think he was afraid to tell the authorities either. He said in his own words about Darlie's suicide attempt that a comptemplation is not an attempt.

[Goody]

ia m not going to try to turn this into a religious debate- but i will say that if someone like darlie is sitting next to me in heaven........i will not understand, nor appreciate it- and unlike your bible quote- i am not implying we all dont sin-- but i can guarantee you- i am a good person-
But aren't all sins equal in the eyes of God? And don't many good people do some very bad things? Often in the name of love and/or love of the Lord. I just finished reading a book where a convict said that southern christians were sadists....they will beat you half to death in the name of Jesus.

My point, I guess, is that I don't find it difficult to believe someone like Darlie could be forgiven if she made an honest attempt to settle her "debts" (or conflicts) while still on earth and was sincerely sorry for her wrongs, but I do find it difficult to believe that there would be no repercussions for things not settled here on the other side. If not, life on earth makes even less sense than it does already. And on most days it is mass confusion,. LOL. And that is if you obey the rules.

[Goody]

The first thing Darin should have done was copped to the fact that he was trying to have his house burglarized. Why wait six years? I don't believe his robbery motive for a second. Do you Snooty? And I don't think he was afraid to tell the authorities either. He said in his own words about Darlie's suicide attempt that a comptemplation is not an attempt.
I think the whole Darin sent out the word to have his home burgled is BS. In the two weeks before her arrest, both Darlie and Darin felt pretty comfortable with detectives. They said themselves they had no idea they were suspects. Darlie felt comfortable enough to flirt with them, to tell them about the cocaine she'd purchased for Darin's birthday (in Feb, I think). If they were innocent and only wanted to find who had done this to their children, he would have spilled right away. Or they would have gotten together and reasonably concluded that they would have to tell. No one who loves their children would be worried about some attempted to scam charge in the shadows of their children's murders.

Maybe he did say something to her stepfather, but it was obviously not something he had had an opportunity to follow thru on. It was just Darin looking for an easy out, throwing ideas around to solve their financial problems. If he had ever gotten around to actually putting the word out, don't you know that there would be some guys willing to come forward and say so?

[proadvocate]

Darlie is 100% innocent. I have followed this case very closely from Day One. I believe Darin had something to do with it. After he admitted to speaking with people just THREE DAYS before the killings about hiring someone to burglarize the house for the insurance money, that sent up a huge red flag for me.
Thank you Shamrock.To many people overlook simple facts in the rush to execute inmates.Why is it so hard for people to look at Darin as a potential suspect?Was it Darlie out hiring thugs to pull off an insurance scam?Was it Darlie who agreed to testify up to the point just shy of implicating herself?And what of this lawyer she had forced on her....Why is there such a need on his part to censor any and all evidence from Darlies defense which might in some way implicate Darin?Personally I think Darin either commited the crime himself,or paid some of his thug friends to do it for him.

[Goody]

Thank you Shamrock.To many people overlook simple facts in the rush to execute inmates.Why is it so hard for people to look at Darin as a potential suspect?Was it Darlie out hiring thugs to pull off an insurance scam?Was it Darlie who agreed to testify up to the point just shy of implicating herself?And what of this lawyer she had forced on her....Why is there such a need on his part to censor any and all evidence from Darlies defense which might in some way implicate Darin?Personally I think Darin either commited the crime himself,or paid some of his thug friends to do it for him.
If Darin did it, Darlie had to know it. Too many holes in her story for her not to.

And why on earth would you believe Darin hired thugs to come into his house when ONLY three days before the murders he was just getting around to asking someone WHO he could hire? And that person had no idea.

There is no proof that Darin ever was involved with an insurance scam. All he has admitted to so far is that someone misunderstood him when he said he wouldn't mind if his car was stolen. He says the guy stole the car but never says anything about getting any money from insurance on it. Since he was still driving the car when this happened, it doesn't sound like any of it is even close to being an insurance scam.

And where are the guys he put the word out to? Surely one of them could use a plea deal by now. Not a single one comes forward though, not a single ex-girlfriend comes forward. Sounds to me like there is no proof at all that any of this is even true. I think it is just something Darin concocted to help Darlie win an appeal. You wait and see. If anything comes of this, in the end he won't be able to produce the bad guys.

And where did you get the idea there was a lawyer forced on her. The family turned themselves inside out trying to raise enough money to hire a good atty for her. Darlie had the final say about everything. You don't really see Darlie as a shrinking violet, do you? Darlie is very articulate and well read. If she didn't like something, I am sure she would have had no problem letting people know about it. Listen to thw words in her letters that she wrote from the jail. Sounds like she knew a whole lot about what was going on in her case.

<<<Why is there such a need on his part to censor any and all evidence from Darlies defense which might in some way implicate Darin?>>>>

I don't understand this statement at all. Please explain.

[Jeana (DP)]

Thank you Shamrock.To many people overlook simple facts in the rush to execute inmates.Why is it so hard for people to look at Darin as a potential suspect?Was it Darlie out hiring thugs to pull off an insurance scam?Was it Darlie who agreed to testify up to the point just shy of implicating herself?And what of this lawyer she had forced on her....Why is there such a need on his part to censor any and all evidence from Darlies defense which might in some way implicate Darin?Personally I think Darin either commited the crime himself,or paid some of his thug friends to do it for him.


Simple. If Darin (or any intruder) wanted Darlie dead, she'd be dead. There was no evidence of any struggle in that house, so there's no way anyone could argue that she began to get the best of someone so they gave up and left. The houses are way more close together in that neighborhood than one might guess from looking at photos. If she was fighting Darin and screaming, someone most likely would have heard something. If someone was paid, they'd most likely have talked to someone by now.

[Goody]

Simple. If Darin (or any intruder) wanted Darlie dead, she'd be dead. There was no evidence of any struggle in that house, so there's no way anyone could argue that she began to get the best of someone so they gave up and left. The houses are way more close together in that neighborhood than one might guess from looking at photos. If she was fighting Darin and screaming, someone most likely would have heard something. If someone was paid, they'd most likely have talked to someone by now.
I agree, Jeana. Esp with that last one. If someone outside the family had done this, someone would know and likely turn in an anonymous tip by now. These thugs always tell a girlfriend and end up breaking up with them, then the girlfriend gets a conscience and rats them out. The only reason there aren't any tips coming in to cops or media is because it was an inside job.

[txsvicki]

I have wondered for awhile if Darlie could have been going to try and murder Darin also since the little boys didn't have much insurance coverage. Has anyone discussed this or suspected this motive?

[Goody]

I have wondered for awhile if Darlie could have been going to try and murder Darin also since the little boys didn't have much insurance coverage. Has anyone discussed this or suspected this motive?
This question has been brought up many times, but I don't think that was ever a real possibility. Darlie did not even go upstairs. All of her activity was located in the family room and kitchen. If she had intended to kill Darin, she wouldn't have screamed to wake him up. That is, if you believe his version of events.

[deanws]

This question has been brought up many times, but I don't think that was ever a real possibility. Darlie did not even go upstairs. All of her activity was located in the family room and kitchen. If she had intended to kill Darin, she wouldn't have screamed to wake him up. That is, if you believe his version of events. Shoot Goody, I don't trust him any more than I do her.:sick:

[Goody]

Shoot Goody, I don't trust him any more than I do her.:sick:
Nor do I. I suspect he was downstairs when the attacks took place and that is why the confusion on what he was wearing when they said he came downstairs. I don't know if that makes him just as guilty of murder as it does Darlie, but it certainly could.

[deanws]

Nor do I. I suspect he was downstairs when the attacks took place and that is why the confusion on what he was wearing when they said he came downstairs. I don't know if that makes him just as guilty of murder as it does Darlie, but it certainly could.I think it does. Not that my opinion counts.:crazy: I am so sure the Texas courts value my opinion! ;)

[Goody]

I think it does. Not that my opinion counts.:crazy: I am so sure the Texas courts value my opinion! ;)
If you were on the jury, they would. hahahahahahah.

[deanws]

I know that I would have had to excuse myself if I had been picked for that trial. I just could not stomach the photos.:( It took all I could stomach to view the photos of the blood outline of the blade that my friend beesy said weren't too gory.:doh: I just glanced at the one of Devon's back to look see if I could see that tiny break in his skin. He was already cleaned up...and it still made me sick to my stomach. It makes me very sad to think of the pain those precious babies had in their last moments of life.

[Goody]

I know that I would have had to excuse myself if I had been picked for that trial. I just could not stomach the photos.:( It took all I could stomach to view the photos of the blood outline of the blade that my friend beesy said weren't too gory.:doh: I just glanced at the one of Devon's back to look see if I could see that tiny break in his skin. He was already cleaned up...and it still made me sick to my stomach. It makes me very sad to think of the pain those precious babies had in their last moments of life.
I agree with you there. It must have been horrendous and terrifying.

As for the photos, one does have to work their way up to them. Definitely not easy to digest.

[justice2]

I know that I would have had to excuse myself if I had been picked for that trial. I just could not stomach the photos.:( It took all I could stomach to view the photos of the blood outline of the blade that my friend beesy said weren't too gory.:doh: I just glanced at the one of Devon's back to look see if I could see that tiny break in his skin. He was already cleaned up...and it still made me sick to my stomach. It makes me very sad to think of the pain those precious babies had in their last moments of life.
When I stumbled onto the autopsy photos, it took me at least two weeks before I could come back to the site.

[Patty]

Over the last two days I've been doing nothing but reading
about the Daril case. I can't say I feel 100% Darli is innocent or
guilty.
I do however feel that a guilty man is still free.
Darin, is not innocent by no stretch of the imagination.
This is what I feel possibly could have happened.
Darli and Darin, sometime through out that evening fought
about seperating, finances possibly both. I believe the fight
became physical, ending in the bruises seen after the murders
on Darli. We all know that Darin was researching having someone break into the home for the insurance fraud. I just wonder how much life insurance Darin had on Darli and the two children. Or possibly just Darli. In Darli statements she stated that she asked Darin to lock the doors before he went to bed.
She states he told her I already locked them, but the doors were
not locked. If Darin had arranged for someone to come into
the home and kill Darli, he would have purposely left the doors
unlocked. Is it possible that the person enters through the door
with the intent to kill Darli, (per Darin's request) as he is attacking and or about to attack Darli one or both of the boys wake. In a
panic he stabs both of the children and turns on Darli. She wakes
as he is exiting the house. Is it possible that Darin could have already
staged the crime scene slitting the screen earlier or even possibly after
Darli had fallen asleep. Making Darli's story of the mystery man true?

Ok I know I know Darli did it right? Something is missing though.
I just think that Darin is a bigger player in this, and he keeps saying
Darli is innocent, is that because he knows who actually did it? But if
he says then he will be in more trouble??

I don't think Darli is smart enough to think this up on her own.

Patty

[Jeana (DP)]

Patty, hi and welcome!

Not possible. Although we DO know for certain that they had a terrible argument that night, if the bruises were caused the night of the murders, they would have started to show up while she was still in the hospital, not days and days after she was released.

There's no possible way that Darlie could have slept through any sort of attack on her. If the boys had woken up during the attack on them there would be evidence of that and there is not. There isn't anything (save one wine glass) broken in the room and no evidence of a struggle between anyone, much less two boys, one mother and one ore more intruders. Moreover, had Darlie fought to save their lives, she would have more serious wounds than she did and those wounds would have been of the "deep penetrating" variety that the boys had and not the "slasing/scratching" type wound she had.

I think Darin is guilty, but I don't think he participated in the murders. I think he's guilty of other things, but the extent of that guilt is hard to pinpoint.

[Desilu]

The sticking point that happens with the Darin hired someone is that there is no physical evidence of an intruder in that house, or leaving that house. Darlie's camp claims that the 'unidentified' fingerprint left on the door in blood was left by the intruder. Why does the blood just stop there? That intruder either had to open that fence door to leave or scale over it, and left not a speck of blood. He was sure bloody enough to leave that fingerprint, but the blood stops inside that house.

[Patty]

Thanks Desilu good point the blood does stop there....
I just can't get over the fact that Darin can not be as
innocent as he claims to be....I do feel he has a bigger
part in this I'm not saying he actually committed the
murders but he was aware that they were happening or
was made aware after they happened. He also knows
more then he is telling that is fact!

Also during my reading I was reading how Darli had claimed
to be raped or an attempted rape when she was not getting
the attention she wanted sometime ago when her an Darin
were dating. Was this ever proven true or false?
Does anyone know?

~~~Patty~~~

[Desilu]

I've come to believe he probably found out after the fact and helped her with the cover story.

I don't think there is any way to prove the rape story, and I'm sure Darlie & Darin have denied it somewhere, someone at the party is the one who originally conveyed that story.

[Goody]

Thanks Desilu good point the blood does stop there....
I just can't get over the fact that Darin can not be as
innocent as he claims to be....I do feel he has a bigger
part in this I'm not saying he actually committed the
murders but he was aware that they were happening or
was made aware after they happened. He also knows
more then he is telling that is fact!

Hi, Patty, and welcome as Jeana said.

Darin probably is more involved in this crime than he says, but none of the physical evidence disputes his story or connects him to the crime scene during the crime. So unless Darlie tells us what really happened, he is going to get off scott free. He will probably always live with a cloud of suspicion over his head.

Also during my reading I was reading how Darli had claimed
to be raped or an attempted rape when she was not getting
the attention she wanted sometime ago when her an Darin
were dating. Was this ever proven true or false?
Does anyone know?

~~~Patty~~~
There is no way to prove it. Only those at the party can tell us what they believe happened, what they saw and heard. I am not sure it tells us much though since it appears to be an isolated incident. If a pattern of other similar behavior could be tracked in her adulthood, I would definitely consider it important as it would or could provide information about her emotional psyche.

[cubsfan]

Hi! I just have to say I saw this case on the Women Channel on Women on Death Row and from the show I was positive she was innocent. Then I googled her name and found this website and soon I was staying up until 4am reading Goody and beesy discuss every tiny piece of evidence. I am planning on going to law school in the fall and you guys are all my heroes. As a mother of a 4 year old I didn't want to believe she did it, but I wanted to know the truth.
What really got me was their changing stories, the blood evidence that proves she stood over Damon watching him die holding a bloody knife, all the fragile breakables undisturbed (how could 3 boys live there?), and how she never once tried to hold or comfort the boys. Plus Darin with 7 years of first-aid training spending all his time on (dead) Devon and none on (living) Damon except to check his pulse. I think she did it and Darin is deeply committed to her and probably helped cover up and maybe stabbed Damon in the second attack. I'd think the 911 operator would have heard if Darlie did. Also the first thing out of her mouth the first time she saw the murder scene to Mercedes about the huge expense of getting new carpets and drapes. Hello, reality!
I did not want to believe she did it but thank you for helping me find an answer and understand a little. She was basically on speed, money was her primary focus in life and it was drying up, her husband was spending unexplained time with her sister, she raised those boys wrong and spent no time with them . . .
I was obscessed with this case for about a week and I'm over it now, that I know she did it. I have come to terms with it. At first I thought the prosecuter just hated her because she was beautiful, but no. It is very very sad. I think she felt trapped and that she deserved a better life.

[Jeana (DP)]

Hi Cubsfan and welcome to Websleuths. Thank you for your post. I understand completely when you say you're "over" this case and Darlie. I would like to invite you to take a stroll around the other areas of Websleuths though! There are many many things to do and many many "unsovled" cases that could use a "once over" by such an obviously intelligent poster!!! :D

Holler if any of us can be of assistance and GOOD LUCK in law school!!!! :woohoo:

[Jeana (DP)]

. . . I was staying up until 4am reading Goody and beesy discuss every tiny piece of evidence.


Yo, Goody! Didn't I tell you that you should have been a lawyer! See, you could be putting these people away! :D

[Goody]

Hi! I just have to say I saw this case on the Women Channel on Women on Death Row and from the show I was positive she was innocent. Then I googled her name and found this website and soon I was staying up until 4am reading Goody and beesy discuss every tiny piece of evidence. I am planning on going to law school in the fall and you guys are all my heroes. As a mother of a 4 year old I didn't want to believe she did it, but I wanted to know the truth.
What really got me was their changing stories, the blood evidence that proves she stood over Damon watching him die holding a bloody knife, all the fragile breakables undisturbed (how could 3 boys live there?), and how she never once tried to hold or comfort the boys. Plus Darin with 7 years of first-aid training spending all his time on (dead) Devon and none on (living) Damon except to check his pulse. I think she did it and Darin is deeply committed to her and probably helped cover up and maybe stabbed Damon in the second attack. I'd think the 911 operator would have heard if Darlie did. Also the first thing out of her mouth the first time she saw the murder scene to Mercedes about the huge expense of getting new carpets and drapes. Hello, reality!
I did not want to believe she did it but thank you for helping me find an answer and understand a little. She was basically on speed, money was her primary focus in life and it was drying up, her husband was spending unexplained time with her sister, she raised those boys wrong and spent no time with them . . .
I was obscessed with this case for about a week and I'm over it now, that I know she did it. I have come to terms with it. At first I thought the prosecuter just hated her because she was beautiful, but no. It is very very sad. I think she felt trapped and that she deserved a better life.
Gosh, I wish I could do that. I just want to know more. Can't stand to leave a mystery unsolved. I must have OCD. But glad our words have helped explain a few things. We make mistakes sometimes so don't take what we say as carved in stone, but for the most part I think we have a good grasp of the facts and issues.

[deanws]

I've come to believe he probably found out after the fact and helped her with the cover story.

I don't think there is any way to prove the rape story, and I'm sure Darlie & Darin have denied it somewhere, someone at the party is the one who originally conveyed that story.I think he helped with much more than that.

[Goody]

Yo, Goody! Didn't I tell you that you should have been a lawyer! See, you could be putting these people away! :D
Now that would be a sight for sore eyes. hahahahah. I wonder how Goody's life might have turned out had she rode into town square on her white horse with law license in hand ready to lock those bad boys up. I am all for exposing the wrongdoers in our world. Not sure I want to put them away though. Some of them, no doubt. But the warm and fuzzy ones? Don't know. <sigh> But I guess it would be better than becoming a nun and rapping their young fingers with a pointer stick. :doh:

[Goody]

I think he helped with much more than that.
So do I. I think the chances that he is completely innocent of murder is about as likely as him doing it all without Darlie knowing it....zilch. Both of them were involved and both of them are guilty. I would still like to know who did what though.

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Just from cutting stuff up at home I have a question to pose.
A bread knife would saw thru whatever it cut. A cheese knife would tear something like a screen A straight edge would cut straight. This is suppostion here just using personal experience as the litmus.
Did anyone look at the screen under a microscope and count the spaces between the little screen holes and the cuts? Are the edges frayed real bad like they were sawed thru, which direction do they show the cut running. Wouldn't the screen be kinda all warped out on the edges from being sawed back and forth. My bread knife isn't that sharp on its end and I only had a small bit of screen leftover from repairing my own. I couldn't saw thru it easily cause I couldn't get the blunted tip end thru the screen without really warping its shape. It also required me to hold the knife in an awkward position. If it had been me( please forgive me trying to walk it thru like I'm the perp) I'd have given up on the bread knife and gotton something else like a box cutter or a paring knife with a sharp pointy tip. Could a hole have been poked in it first then torn straight down like you do material when you tear it on the bias.
I have a lot of questions and I don't like the answers coming from either side sometimes cause they don't fit the science I learned and use everyday. Can we take field trips in this forum? I'd love to get into the evidence room and find out for myself.

[beesy]

[QUOTE]Hi! I just have to say I saw this case on the Women Channel on Women on Death Row and from the show I was positive she was innocent. Then I googled her name and found this website and soon I was staying up until 4am reading Goody and beesy discuss every tiny piece of evidence. I am planning on going to law school in the fall and you guys are all my heroes. As a mother of a 4 year old I didn't want to believe she did it, but I wanted to know the truth. Poor thing up til 4AM reading Goody and me rattling along. Goody taught me most of what I know or pointed me in the direction to find it. We disagree on some points though(wink wink) But thanks, that's very nice of you http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_30_109.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

I think 2 perps did it.

None of you can understand this as you haven't seen the low life losers I have.
But this scenario works for me,

If Darin had "arranged" for the house to be burglarized and had a couple of people lined up to pull it off. Or even if they (the perps) had heard rumors about a car job he may or may not have been involved in from other people and had approached him about it. Yes believe or not thieves are bold enough and stupid enough to solicit business as well. They did have travel plans weeks in advance. To see Darlie's dad in Pennsylvania I think. This info could have made them a target without solicitation on either end.

He does try and cancel the deal but these guys are pissed. They weren't gonna do this job for free and they need the money. You see people who do this kind of stuff aren't really normal they don't keep regular jobs, they live on the fringes of society even sometimes. Almost all of them are alcholics, drug addicts and LOSERS.
Lolly ,Lolly Ice HEADS.

They actually know too much about Darin and Darlie. If Darin was stupid enough to hire them he wouldn't have been smart enough to protect his family from them.
If they are independants and they cased him they might have scammed their way in sometime past.
If hired Darin might have let them in and they had seen his house.
They think Darlie is SEXY, but a dumb , stupid ***** deluxe. They decide to teach Darin a lesson 'bout doing biznes. He is a rich **** they know it they have seen his crib.
They scout it out late so the family will be asleep they intend to rob him for real anyway. Screw him and his insurance scam. Who does he think he is anyway.They are high. They are not extremely intelligent people.

They brought one knife with them.

They think the family would be upstairs asleep and they could scout it out quietly maybe score a little bling bling downstairs. It just might scare Darin enough to know they aren't punks to be ****ed with. They need this JOB.

Upon entering the den they trip over the sleeping boy Devon. The surprise for these crack heads was too much. The one perp starts the crime. He has to stab the boy and he does so with force and quiet delibertion. This killer has a clear knowledge of anatomy as evidenced by his placements of wounds. He is most likely a prior offender. IMO

When the one perp who didn't trip over a kid sees Darlie, on the couch asleep he may or may not have seen Damon also still asleep on the floor.He freaks too. He goes to the kitchen and gets a knife. He has to kill Darlie cause his partner just stabbed her kid to death. He goes back to the den. The one boy and Darlie are still asleep. One guy is standing behind Darlie and one of them wants to have a little fun. One of them grabs Darlie by the mouth from behind. This is not the best position to hold someone down on a couch folks. We are dealing with losers here not JAMES BOND.
Darlie does stuggle and manages to kick a glass top table over. This awakes Damon who is dispatched by the killler who had taken the knife from the kitchen. The perps don't want to fight her that hard for some ass so they proceed to the task at hand She is pinned and the killer doesn't feel confident enough to stab her in the heart right between his own legs. He is going to cut her throat to finish her off. He has a plan.
When he grabs her wrists to still contain her so he can reach her throat and get off her he releases some pressure on her arms, she fights anew. He stabs her arm as the only direction they could come is up and he has released his hold on her arms now. That works she quits fighting and he thinks he is home free. He is not a trained killer he doesn't know- it is not that easy to cut the throat of a person laying down. If his patner was holding her mouth shut he may have actually kept her head bent too far forward for a fatal cut to be made.
He cuts her deep he thinks in one quick slash to her neck. He steps back to makes sure he looks for blood and she is bleeding. His partner has deserted him after having to kill a kid, and all this ***** it is time to book. He has taken off.
He starts to leave and Darlie is roused, either by Damon or by the attack being over. She glimpes a figure at the end of the couch. It moves towards the garage. She hears a glass breaking. Even though she has been thru an attack and she really isn't sure of things. The intinct to stay alive and the post trauma makes her doubt she really saw someone. Am I dreaming, was this a nightmare? She gets up and her rollercoaster ride into hell begins when she realizes what happened to her children.
If hired, or targeted, with or without Darins cooperation, I really don't find it too hard to believe. I see two people commiting this crime.

[Goody]

I think 2 perps did it.

None of you can understand this as you haven't seen the low life losers I have.
But this scenario works for me,

If Darin had "arranged" for the house to be burglarized and had a couple of people lined up to pull it off. Or even if they (the perps) had heard rumors about a car job he may or may not have been involved in from other people and had approached him about it. Yes believe or not thieves are bold enough and stupid enough to solicit business as well. They did have travel plans weeks in advance. To see Darlie's dad in Pennsylvania I think. This info could have made them a target without solicitation on either end.
Just three days before he is asking his stepfather-in-law if he knows anyone to do it? He had no one lined up then, why on earth should we believe that he finds two bozos in the next two days ? Even if he managed that feat, are we still supposed to believe that these guys wouldn't run when things went wrong? They know Darin knows who they are but they stop to kill his two small kids and don't even bother to take anything? Sorry but even retarded perps could do better than that. But even putting that aside, there is NO proof to support such a theory.

He does try and cancel the deal but these guys are pissed. They weren't gonna do this job for free and they need the money. You see people who do this kind of stuff aren't really normal they don't keep regular jobs, they live on the fringes of society even sometimes. Almost all of them are alcholics, drug addicts and LOSERS.
Lolly ,Lolly Ice HEADS.

They actually know too much about Darin and Darlie. If Darin was stupid enough to hire them he wouldn't have been smart enough to protect his family from them.
If they are independants and they cased him they might have scammed their way in sometime past.
If hired Darin might have let them in and they had seen his house.
They think Darlie is SEXY, but a dumb , stupid ***** deluxe. They decide to teach Darin a lesson 'bout doing biznes. He is a rich **** they know it they have seen his crib.
They scout it out late so the family will be asleep they intend to rob him for real anyway. Screw him and his insurance scam. Who does he think he is anyway.They are high. They are not extremely intelligent people.

They brought one knife with them.

They think the family would be upstairs asleep and they could scout it out quietly maybe score a little bling bling downstairs. It just might scare Darin enough to know they aren't punks to be ****ed with. They need this JOB.

Upon entering the den they trip over the sleeping boy Devon. The surprise for these crack heads was too much. The one perp starts the crime. He has to stab the boy and he does so with force and quiet delibertion. This killer has a clear knowledge of anatomy as evidenced by his placements of wounds. He is most likely a prior offender. IMO

When the one perp who didn't trip over a kid sees Darlie, on the couch asleep he may or may not have seen Damon also still asleep on the floor.He freaks too. He goes to the kitchen and gets a knife. He has to kill Darlie cause his partner just stabbed her kid to death. He goes back to the den. The one boy and Darlie are still asleep. One guy is standing behind Darlie and one of them wants to have a little fun. One of them grabs Darlie by the mouth from behind. This is not the best position to hold someone down on a couch folks. We are dealing with losers here not JAMES BOND.
Darlie does stuggle and manages to kick a glass top table over. This awakes Damon who is dispatched by the killler who had taken the knife from the kitchen. The perps don't want to fight her that hard for some ass so they proceed to the task at hand She is pinned and the killer doesn't feel confident enough to stab her in the heart right between his own legs. He is going to cut her throat to finish her off. He has a plan.
When he grabs her wrists to still contain her so he can reach her throat and get off her he releases some pressure on her arms, she fights anew. He stabs her arm as the only direction they could come is up and he has released his hold on her arms now. That works she quits fighting and he thinks he is home free. He is not a trained killer he doesn't know- it is not that easy to cut the throat of a person laying down. If his patner was holding her mouth shut he may have actually kept her head bent too far forward for a fatal cut to be made.
He cuts her deep he thinks in one quick slash to her neck. He steps back to makes sure he looks for blood and she is bleeding. His partner has deserted him after having to kill a kid, and all this ***** it is time to book. He has taken off.
He starts to leave and Darlie is roused, either by Damon or by the attack being over. She glimpes a figure at the end of the couch. It moves towards the garage. She hears a glass breaking. Even though she has been thru an attack and she really isn't sure of things. The intinct to stay alive and the post trauma makes her doubt she really saw someone. Am I dreaming, was this a nightmare? She gets up and her rollercoaster ride into hell begins when she realizes what happened to her children.
If hired, or targeted, with or without Darins cooperation, I really don't find it too hard to believe. I see two people commiting this crime.
Pure speculation and utter BS if you ask me. All you have done is create a fictional story around some basic facts and ignore most of the crime scene evidence. I guess this guy dripping with blood makes the mess in the utility room and leaves blood all over the door but somehow becomes bloodless once he steps into the garage and leaves not a single trace of his existence past that point? And in all that activity in the house he leaves nothing of himself either, not even a strand of hair? :rolleyes:

[Mary456]

I think 2 perps did it. Upon entering the den they trip over the sleeping boy Devon.

That's very interesting. Two perps cut a screen, which they could have simply pulled out, get through it with about one foot clearance (I'm assuming you've seen the crime scene photos of the animal cages almost blocking the window) and don't trip on anything in the cluttered garage, in total darkness.

Then they make their way across the kitchen, to the far side of the family room - illuminated by a big-screen TV - and trip over Devon.

The perps obviously had their wits about them when they maneuvered through the garage and kitchen, because nothing was disturbed. Do you think they stopped by the sink to take a few Percodan before venturing into the family room?

Yeah, that's probably it. They waited in the kitchen until the pain-killer kicked in (only 15 or 20 minutes) and then took a header over Devon. Silly boys :)

[Goody]

Yeah, that's probably it. They waited in the kitchen until the pain-killer kicked in (only 15 or 20 minutes) and then took a header over Devon. Silly boys :)
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: What a klutz.

[Mary456]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: What a klutz.

Well, I didn't want to be too harsh on the perps. Different drugs take different times to take affect.

I'll bet El-Jeffo could tell us the reaction time between Percodan, Percoset, Darvon, Valium, weed, heroin, and Tylenol...based on stomach content, water intake, activity, heart rate, and what they had for lunch. A hamburger cannot be compared to a salad. For instance, the absorbtion rate for a hamburger with 4 oz of water can be nailed down to 3 hours and 4 seconds. If taken with Percodan, the rate of absorbtion increases by 5 seconds. Of course, if you add heart rate to that, it decreases by TWO WHOLE MINUTES! (I'm not taking questions at this time. El Jefe will back me up on any details).

Which brings me back to what I was trying to say in the first place. What was I trying to say in the first place?

Oh yes, I remember now. The perps were slow-moving vehicles. They stopped at the sink to get their fix before they tripped over Devon, and stopped at the sink to clean up the blood before they left.

Any guy who cleans up blood is ok in my book, klutz or not :)

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

FACTS I KNOW
Darlie was a clean freak. She did not allow people to wear their shoes in the house. Piles of shoes are shown by the door.

Darlie vacummed several times a day and probably vacummed after dinner to before they settled down to watch tv it was her habit to do so.
Lack of fibers- now you know why.

The window was large enough to easily step thru, didn't you see that at the trial? They went back and forth thru the window testing it out. That is how the hair (policepersons) got there.

The drugs these perps were on aren't like anything your dr has ever prescribed for you.
Have you ever seen a meth or crack user?

I have an idea not a total answer.
I do not think this was premeditated.
It is possible but may not occured EXACTLY as I put forth.
I never mentioned the blood evidence in my scenario.
What doesn't fit it. In other words CONVINCE ME.

I know this is hard to believe for you but the killer would not I repeat would not be dripping or covered in blood as you assume. Knifing someone unless you hit a smaller artery and arterial spray occurs would leave the knife bloody not the killer. Major arteries like your aorta wouldn't spray they are too large they allow large amounts of blood to be moved thru the body but a person bleeds out quick when those arteries are damaged.

Darlie did touch her children after they were stabbed. That is why she has their blood on her shirt. The tiny speck on the BACK of her nightshirt would mean that she had to raise the knife very high above her head before she made that stab.
It could only be from wounds 2-6 as his blood couldn't be on the knife before he got stabbed.
The blood is Damons and he was stabbed more shallowly than Devon. With heighth and trajectory I surmise that is not how it occured. Glancing blows and the number of them speaks of rapid stabbing , the killer was in a bigger hurry, possibly more adreneline going now than when Devon was stabbed. Totally changed styles of stabbing too- this bothers me.

[Goody]

FACTS I KNOW

The drugs these perps were on aren't like anything your dr has ever prescribed for you.
Have you ever seen a meth or crack user? {/QUOTE]

If they were strung out, it would be even more likely that they would have left all kinds of evidence behind. They sure would have knocked some of those knickknacks down. And probably made a whole lot more noise than they did. There is just nothing to support a theory of drugged out killers.

[QUOTE=G.I.RattlesnakeJane]
I have an idea not a total answer.
I do not think this was premeditated.
It is possible but may not occured EXACTLY as I put forth.
I never mentioned the blood evidence in my scenario.
What doesn't fit it. In other words CONVINCE ME.
Sorry, nothing in it for me to try to rebutt a fictional skit like you have proposed. I have to rely on the evidence.


I know this is hard to believe for you but the killer would not I repeat would not be dripping or covered in blood as you assume.
That was my point. If he had been dripping with enough blood to leave all over the utility room, it would not have stopped at the garage door. So he didn't leave the bloody print on the garage door.



Darlie did touch her children after they were stabbed. That is why she has their blood on her shirt. The tiny speck on the BACK of her nightshirt would mean that she had to raise the knife very high above her head before she made that stab.
I disagree. There is no basis for this to be plausible. The children's blood would not have been flying thru the air unless something specific caused it to fly, so just sitting next to them would not automatically insure their blood would end up on her shirt. You have to show a specific action that is provable by a reasonable test.


It could only be from wounds 2-6 as his blood couldn't be on the knife before he got stabbed.
The blood is Damons and he was stabbed more shallowly than Devon. With heighth and trajectory I surmise that is not how it occured. Glancing blows and the number of them speaks of rapid stabbing , the killer was in a bigger hurry, possibly more adreneline going now than when Devon was stabbed. Totally changed styles of stabbing too- this bothers me.
It should because killers don't change styles. Fictional writers might, but not killers.

[Jeana (DP)]

They decide to teach Darin a lesson 'bout doing biznes. He is a rich **** they know it they have seen his crib.
.



There's more to respond to from your post, but I have to stop right here. First of all, even in their neighborhood, which is lower middle class, their house is on the "cheaper" end of the scale.

[Jeana (DP)]

Darlie did touch her children after they were stabbed. .


We have testimony from the police officer on the scene who says this is not true. If she had, she would have more of their blood on her than a few tiny drops (in the wrong place).

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

There's more to respond to from your post, but I have to stop right here. First of all, even in their neighborhood, which is lower middle class, their house is on the "cheaper" end of the scale.
I was comparing Darin's house to the type of house a crack head would have, Why would you assume this crack head lives in the neighborhood. In my mind a crack head only keeps his run down rental trailor till the landlord kicks him out. Any house in that neighborhood would be a "rich" one to an idiot like I'm describing. I guess I didn't paint a convincing portrait of a LOSER. I am sorry if i jump from one theory to the other but one of them has to be true and I don't mind looking at all of them and seeing if the scenario fits the evidence.

my biggest problem with the DARLIE DID IT scenario the way it has been described on her website and MTJD book is the pieces of evidence don't all fit together with the time lines
now don't get me wrong here I don't know how best to describe this and not write a huge response is 2+2=4. If you came up with 5 by mistake then corrected it 2+2=4 I WOULD BE OK WITH IT CAUSE 2+2=4. Let a criminal out on a technacality cause someone said 5 by mistake I don't support that either. Before Darlie is put to death I'd like to see the 2+2=4 I want to be sure.

[Jeana (DP)]

I was comparing Darin's house to the type of house a crack head would have, Why would you assume this crack head lives in the neighborhood. In my mind a crack head only keeps his run down rental trailor till the landlord kicks him out. Any house in that neighborhood would be a "rich" one to an idiot like I'm describing. I guess I didn't paint a convincing portrait of a LOSER. I am sorry if i jump from one theory to the other but one of them has to be true and I don't mind looking at all of them and seeing if the scenario fits the evidence.
.


I don't mind brainstorming either. However, you're leaping to a huge conclusion that just doesn't fit. You're interjecting some "crack heads" into this story that just aren't there. The problem is that there isn't one shred of evidence that would put one, much less two intruders into that house. Now to put two "crack heads" into that house without leaving any evidence? Wow, that's a hell of a stretch. Even if Darin did hire some crack heads to kill Darlie, how do you explain the fact that she walked away with barely a stratch? You're read the autopsys of the boys. Its pretty apparent, is it not, that whomever killed the boys knew exactly where to stab them in order to effect a quick death? Why then would that same tactic not be used on Darlie? Why would the intruder(s) leave KNOWING that she was not only still alive, but FOLLOWING them out of the house? You know the neighborhood. If she went out her front door screaming her head off, intruders could have easily been stopped before they got out of the neighborhood. I was just over there on Saturday. If two crack heads have just murdered two little boys, their mother is chasing them out of the house and they're panicing, I can see them having trouble getting out of those dead end streets. NOT to mention the fact that there's no way on God's green earth that two crack heads are going to leave a big pile of jewelery on the counter before they left.

[justice2]

There's more to respond to from your post, but I have to stop right here. First of all, even in their neighborhood, which is lower middle class, their house is on the "cheaper" end of the scale.
I'm glad you said that. I've been wanting to say something about that for quite a while.

From the pictures the house looks really cheap or should I say cheaply built. The countertops and windows look like some of the cheapest built houses I looked at while I lived in the metroplex. Seems like Darin complained about having to upgrade lots of stuff. I think the architecture on the front make people think it is upscale, but from what I've seen in the pictures it's not.

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm glad you said that. I've been wanting to say something about that for quite a while.

From the pictures the house looks really cheap or should I say cheaply built. The countertops and windows look like some of the cheapest built houses I looked at while I lived in the metroplex. Seems like Darin complained about having to upgrade lots of stuff. I think the architecture on the front make people think it is upscale, but from what I've seen in the pictures it's not.

From what I understand it was just a tract home with no special attributes, and, from the photographs I've seen, it was filled with cheap furniture and cheap knickknacks. Darlie and Darin had no class and it showed.

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

LOL
we both agree on the subject that crack heads are idiots but your giving them even too much credit because honestly only a crack head would break into a house and forget to steal the goods. I mean have you ever REALLY seen someone on crack before because their brains are skirming like a toad when they are high and they are jicking and ticking when coming down. They are worse than the old Angel Dust jerks who fought cops at arrest. You may be right about being able to escape but remember Darlie was dumb crack heads are stupid.

According to the Darlie website evidence of intruders was collected or photographed and not tested, pubic hair, bloody fingerprints, blood on the utility room and garage floor. They say some of this stuff is new so I know its not in MTJD. they also have a statement about a "getaway car" that a neighbor heard. Can the state also have this stuff tested because two reports with the same results would settle it for both sides.

Thanks for indulging my amauter sleuthing

[Jeana (DP)]

LOL
we both agree on the subject that crack heads are idiots but your giving them even too much credit because honestly only a crack head would break into a house and forget to steal the goods. I mean have you ever REALLY seen someone on crack before because their brains are skirming like a toad when they are high and they are jicking and ticking when coming down. They are worse than the old Angel Dust jerks who fought cops at arrest. You may be right about being able to escape but remember Darlie was dumb crack heads are stupid.

According to the Darlie website evidence of intruders was collected or photographed and not tested, pubic hair, bloody fingerprints, blood on the utility room and garage floor. They say some of this stuff is new so I know its not in MTJD. they also have a statement about a "getaway car" that a neighbor heard. Can the state also have this stuff tested because two reports with the same results would settle it for both sides.

Thanks for indulging my amauter sleuthing


We would expect a sloppy crime scene if crack heads were involved. This crime scene was pristine.

I don't believe one word written on Darlie's website. If you're talking about the "black" car that someone had seen in the neighborhood we've already been all over that. I don't buy it. First of all, tell me how the intruder(s) left the house. Did they go out the garage? How did they get over the fence? You know there were no scuff marks, so if someone went out that way, they had to lift up and hold the GATE and then close it. Why would crack heads do that when they KNEW that the mother of two little boys they just attacked was after them?

[Goody]

We would expect a sloppy crime scene if crack heads were involved. This crime scene was pristine.

I don't believe one word written on Darlie's website. If you're talking about the "black" car that someone had seen in the neighborhood we've already been all over that. I don't buy it. First of all, tell me how the intruder(s) left the house. Did they go out the garage? How did they get over the fence? You know there were no scuff marks, so if someone went out that way, they had to lift up and hold the GATE and then close it. Why would crack heads do that when they KNEW that the mother of two little boys they just attacked was after them?
They wiped their bloody hands on the UR door and the sock stuck to their shoe but they didn't know it. It hung on like glue until the got down the alley where they lost it as they got into the black getaway car that no one noticed in the alley. That's why there was no blood after the UR door. Their hands were clean. Probably wiped any leftover residue on their pants.

[Jeana (DP)]

They wiped their bloody hands on the UR door and the sock stuck to their shoe but they didn't know it. It hung on like glue until the got down the alley where they lost it as they got into the black getaway car that no one noticed in the alley. That's why there was no blood after the UR door. Their hands were clean. Probably wiped any leftover residue on their pants.


Yeah, that must be it. :doh: :doh: :doh:

[beesy]

Yeah, that must be it. :doh: :doh: :doh: acid is groovy, kill the pigs http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/352v.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

acid is groovy, kill the pigs http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/352v.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)
hey like **** static cling happens. Not really that far fetched,
My husband is an old fart like me and he can still run hit the gate or fence with one foot and be over it in a flash.
Working on peoples A/C units in backyards and having their dog suddenly decide you look good for lunch.
White bottomed tennis shoes would not leave any scuff marks only certain types of shoes would scuff the fence or gate. They would have to be of a certain plastics composition like dress shoes, It is easy to scale a fence as low as the fence in the backyard.
5-6 ft easy, Mr Rattlesnake says he once did it over a 8 foot only touching the fence with one foot and hauling himself over with one hand. Do you want film at nine.

I know some posters don't like my crack heads but truthfully crack heads would be a very likely to do such a disorganized crime.

Or do you think this is an organized crime.

[Goody]

hey like **** static cling happens. Not really that far fetched,
My husband is an old fart like me and he can still run hit the gate or fence with one foot and be over it in a flash.
Working on peoples A/C units in backyards and having their dog suddenly decide you look good for lunch.
White bottomed tennis shoes would not leave any scuff marks only certain types of shoes would scuff the fence or gate. They would have to be of a certain plastics composition like dress shoes, It is easy to scale a fence as low as the fence in the backyard.
5-6 ft easy, Mr Rattlesnake says he once did it over a 8 foot only touching the fence with one foot and hauling himself over with one hand. Do you want film at nine.

I know some posters don't like my crack heads but truthfully crack heads would be a very likely to do such a disorganized crime.

Or do you think this is an organized crime.
Maybe so but they couldn't get out of a bloody crime scene without leaving plenty of evidence behind. Forget climbing over the fence...that is an incredibly weak argument but even if they had PF Flyers on their feet, they still couldn't do it without leaving some blood somewhere beyond that utility room. You can come up with all the theories you want about who and what these mystery intruders were, but there is not one thing to support their existence except in the imaginations of supporters. If you guys are that disorganized, why wouldn't they have been all over that crime scene?

[Goody]

Yeah, that must be it. :doh: :doh: :doh:
Well, OJ put his thumb in his pocket once h e got in the house and that is why they didn't find any blood on the white carpet, so, hey, anything's possible. :crazy:

[justice2]

hey like **** static cling happens. Not really that far fetched,
My husband is an old fart like me and he can still run hit the gate or fence with one foot and be over it in a flash.
Working on peoples A/C units in backyards and having their dog suddenly decide you look good for lunch.
White bottomed tennis shoes would not leave any scuff marks only certain types of shoes would scuff the fence or gate. They would have to be of a certain plastics composition like dress shoes, It is easy to scale a fence as low as the fence in the backyard.
5-6 ft easy, Mr Rattlesnake says he once did it over a 8 foot only touching the fence with one foot and hauling himself over with one hand. Do you want film at nine.

I know some posters don't like my crack heads but truthfully crack heads would be a very likely to do such a disorganized crime.

Or do you think this is an organized crime.Tennis shoes would be dirty no matter what color and would leave something on a white painted fence.

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

We don't paint our fences in Lubbock. Natural wood with a stain or sealer, Was the fence painted?

[SnootyVixen]

Maybe so but they couldn't get out of a bloody crime scene without leaving plenty of evidence behind. Forget climbing over the fence...that is an incredibly weak argument but even if they had PF Flyers on their feet, they still couldn't do it without leaving some blood somewhere beyond that utility room. You can come up with all the theories you want about who and what these mystery intruders were, but there is not one thing to support their existence except in the imaginations of supporters. If you guys are that disorganized, why wouldn't they have been all over that crime scene?

Goody you and the others continually come to the wrong conclusion that just because the police didn't find evidence it wasn't there. That is not necessarily the truth. And I think all of you know that. Probably in all cases there is evidence overlooked. Finding no evidence of an intruder in a cursory look for evidence is no reason for anyone to think that there definately was not an intruder. I'm sure you recall the poster who lives there who's friend's husband was a Rowlett policeman and called her that morning early and told her to not leave the house as there was a killer on the loose and then called back a couple of hours and told her it was okay that the mother did it.? You remember that. I know you do. But you want us all to think that this investigation was open and aboveboard throughout. Please. How can that be when they have decided the mother did it within a couple of hours?

[justice2]

We don't paint our fences in Lubbock. Natural wood with a stain or sealer, Was the fence painted?I thought you knew her. You've never went to their house?

An unpainted fence would probably leave a mark also even if the person jumping it only touched it once. It would take a really healthy, muscular, limber person, (I'm thinking a military type or a survivalist type, not a body building type) to haul their ass over a fence. The amount of force from changing their momentum from forward to upward and the weight of that person would probably leave some type of mar, indention or something.

Let see, crack heads usually are not usually healthy, muscular and limber are they.

[SnootyVixen]

I thought you knew her. You've never went to their house?

An unpainted fence would probably leave a mark also even if the person jumping it only touched it once. It would take a really healthy, muscular, limber person, (I'm thinking a military type or a survivalist type, not a body building type) to haul their ass over a fence. The amount of force from changing their momentum from forward to upward and the weight of that person would probably leave some type of mar, indention or something.

Let see, crack heads usually are not usually healthy, muscular and limber are they.


For what it's worth (very little on this forum I think) I have seen firemen go over the smooth sides of privacy fences very quickly and very easily carrying things. I guess that's part of their training.

[Goody]

Goody you and the others continually come to the wrong conclusion that just because the police didn't find evidence it wasn't there. That is not necessarily the truth. And I think all of you know that. Probably in all cases there is evidence overlooked. Finding no evidence of an intruder in a cursory look for evidence is no reason for anyone to think that there definately was not an intruder. I'm sure you recall the poster who lives there who's friend's husband was a Rowlett policeman and called her that morning early and told her to not leave the house as there was a killer on the loose and then called back a couple of hours and told her it was okay that the mother did it.? You remember that. I know you do. But you want us all to think that this investigation was open and aboveboard throughout. Please. How can that be when they have decided the mother did it within a couple of hours?
First of all, I see no evidence that the investigation was anything but above board. You see monsters and conspiracies where there are none. You always have.

Secondly, if there is no evidence to indicate the existence of the intruder, it is reasonable to conclude that one did not exist...esp when you have other evidence pointing to another suspect.

Sorry, but I have no recollection of the Rowlett cop's wife, but I have no problem with the RPD looking at Darlie two hours after the crime was committed. The last person to see the victim alive is always a suspect, and when it is the mother of the children, always scrutinized very carefully. And when you have a mother who is harping about fingerprints on a murder weapon instead of craddling her dying child, a mother who is hollering that the kids are dying without any regard to how it would make at least one of them who was very obviously still alert enough to hear her feel, a mother ....ah, never mind...we have argued this stuff into the ground. You believe she is innocent. I believe she is guilty. You believe the cops were screw ups. I believe they did a pretty good job, not a perfect one, but darned good one. I think Darlie was the most likely suspect given the situation and that most of your complaints are just typical defense spin.

[Goody]

We don't paint our fences in Lubbock. Natural wood with a stain or sealer, Was the fence painted?
Yes. Probably factory paint but definitely painted. You can't tell in the photos if the fence had ever been repainted.

[beesy]

Yes. Probably factory paint but definitely painted. You can't tell in the photos if the fence had ever been repainted. yeah, it was white

[beesy]

First of all, I see no evidence that the investigation was anything but above board. You see monsters and conspiracies where there are none. You always have.

Secondly, if there is no evidence to indicate the existence of the intruder, it is reasonable to conclude that one did not exist...esp when you have other evidence pointing to another suspect.

Sorry, but I have no recollection of the Rowlett cop's wife, but I have no problem with the RPD looking at Darlie two hours after the crime was committed. The last person to see the victim alive is always a suspect, and when it is the mother of the children, always scrutinized very carefully. And when you have a mother who is harping about fingerprints on a murder weapon instead of craddling her dying child, a mother who is hollering that the kids are dying without any regard to how it would make at least one of them who was very obviously still alert enough to hear her feel, a mother ....ah, never mind...we have argued this stuff into the ground. You believe she is innocent. I believe she is guilty. You believe the cops were screw ups. I believe they did a pretty good job, not a perfect one, but darned good one. I think Darlie was the most likely suspect given the situation and that most of your complaints are just typical defense spin. They always look at family first, especially the people on scene. I love how people say Cron made up his in w/in minutes. He made an educated guess w/in mins. If the evidence had pointed another way, then he would have been wrong.

[beesy]

For what it's worth (very little on this forum I think) I have seen firemen go over the smooth sides of privacy fences very quickly and very easily carrying things. I guess that's part of their training.So now the guy is a fireman? I bet he was a cop! That's why they framed Darlie! What about the motion detector which was not on when the cops got there, but which when timed, stayed on for 18 mins?
Do you know how many people would have to be involved in this conspiracy of yours? Why would anybody frame her? Wouldn't they look really stupid if another family had been slaughtered? Chris says some of the evidence was tainted. He says LE moved things because they were trying to plant them. Then why did they enter these things into evidence? Because they did nothing wrong.

[deanws]

They always look at family first, especially the people on scene. I love how people say Cron made up his in w/in minutes. He made an educated guess w/in mins. If the evidence had pointed another way, then he would have been wrong. But he was dead on wasn't he? I am like you and the others here. I really wish he had been wrong. Unfortunately, he wasn't.:(

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

So now the guy is a fireman? I bet he was a cop! That's why they framed Darlie! What about the motion detector which was not on when the cops got there, but which when timed, stayed on for 18 mins?
Do you know how many people would have to be involved in this conspiracy of yours? Why would anybody frame her? Wouldn't they look really stupid if another family had been slaughtered? Chris says some of the evidence was tainted. He says LE moved things because they were trying to plant them. Then why did they enter these things into evidence? Because they did nothing wrong.
Why does Darlie's intruders have to be James Bond. I thought we had all decided this already
SKINHEAD, CRACK SMOKIN, CIRCUS CLOWNS wearing bugle boy jeans and carrying 2x4s.


They did move stuff around Look at all the positions of the INSURANCE AND IMPORTANT PAPERS BOX. MTJD.
Look at the blankets being folded and unfolded. MTJD.
They automatically look at the parents first in any child kidnapping, murder, abuse, etc. Access- parents have primary access to their children, statistically proven fact in most cases involving children. They followed the numbers first trying to build a case against Darlie. That is not to be faulted or blamed they should investigate the parents in cases like this but what gets me about the trail is. the police found a box in the den with these papers in it.
They moved the box around and photographed the contents, which happened to contain the insurance policy on the boys. At trial the lawyer presented these pictures and stated this is what they found in the den. Did he make the jury aware of the fact that it was the police who spread the contents around and photographed them as evidence. This makes it look like Darlie was all hot to trot to collect that insurance policy she had it spread out ready to file a claim. It isn't so much what he said to jury but he didn't say to them- all the story. He made it look more damming than it really was this way. What was that posted earier about hearsay and how it can totally change the meaning of something? This is a lawyers trick and a good one. If his case was so darn good why did the lawyer resort to this. The police didn't have to frame her , she couldn't remember what had happened let alone retrace every step she took that night with 100% clarity and consistancy, most traumatized victims do this very thing. They also disassociate from the event it takes alot of therapy sometimes for people to over violent crimes commited against them.

[SnootyVixen]

So now the guy is a fireman? I bet he was a cop! That's why they framed Darlie! What about the motion detector which was not on when the cops got there, but which when timed, stayed on for 18 mins?
Do you know how many people would have to be involved in this conspiracy of yours? Why would anybody frame her? Wouldn't they look really stupid if another family had been slaughtered? Chris says some of the evidence was tainted. He says LE moved things because they were trying to plant them. Then why did they enter these things into evidence? Because they did nothing wrong.

Oh get real beesy, you know what I meant by the fireman remark. And don't tell me that you don't know about the motion detector. Didn't any of the wonderful people who know all about this case and who taught you so much ever tell you the truth about the motion detector? Why I'm surprised at them!! Not.

[beesy]

Oh get real beesy, you know what I meant by the fireman remark. And don't tell me that you don't know about the motion detector. Didn't any of the wonderful people who know all about this case and who taught you so much ever tell you the truth about the motion detector? Why I'm surprised at them!! Not. I don't get all my answers only from the people on here. I do my own research also. That's how I am able to post links. As I told you before, I have a hard time with the transcripts. I never can seem to find what I'm looking for. So if you would please find it for me? I'd like to know the truth

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

I am so tired of reading your skinhead, blah blah blah thing. I get it ok?
LE moved things around for a very good reason and that is: they take pictures of the scene as found, then they move the items to see if there's anything under them and take some more pictures. It's done all the time. This is not a conspiracy.
As you said, they took pictures of the contents. Find that place in the transcripts. I told Snooty before, I find it difficult to wade through, especially if I'm checking behind someone else. I've looked up alot of things for you.
I don't dispute the investigative tools, the contents of that box should have been photographed. The cops didn't do a totally bad job. In fact I don't want to criticise them at all, with better tools and support to our police departments alot more crimes would get solved. They should have had more support from State, Federal, all branches of government. No political pressure from anyone at any time on any investigative team. The Rowlett police didn't get that kind of support, funding, etc. I don't blame them.

It is the way the prosection presented the evidence leaving the impression in the mind of the jurors that this was the way they found it. That is a lie in its self.
Grandstanding is not considered good business to most good lawyers.


COULD YOU PLEASE SEND A LINK TO THE COPIES OF THE TRANSCRIPTS.

I f I could do more research on my own I wouldn't be asking. Some people here seem to have it memorized by page and volume #. Also I think I quoted you by mistake when I went to post something. be patient with me in regards to computer mistakes I will make them for certain.

The stuff I have posted about Darlie was so you could see some of the people she knows and what their life experiences are. There is more than one way to get to know someone. I might be a "colorful character" to put it politely, but think of myself as better than her, no just luckier I guess. A need to put her down- how more down could she be already.

I maybe a colorful character who's still sitting on the fence on some of the guilt/innocence issues its only because I do respect life. When you have a person strung up ready to meet their maker you best be certain before you slap that horses hinney, there isn't any turning back after that.

I hope my Country collequilism doesn't offend you. It is hard to cut someone loose you know personally. Have you ever seen Lonesome Dove, the movie not TV series.

Tommy Lee has to hang Robert Urich. He tossed in with a bad crowd and brought it on himself. If Darlie tossed her hat to evil I would have to slap that horse too. As much as it would hurt I'm not afraid to do the right thing.

Who knows the new tests may prove Darlie guilty as sin, they may not.
We have to be patient enough for the answers to come. If we all pray together that the truth comes out aren't we all on the same side anyway.

[Goody]

http://www.justicefordarlie.net/

I believe this is Cheryl's site. It is the best one and has just about everything available right now.

[Goody]

I don't get all my answers only from the people on here. I do my own research also. That's how I am able to post links. As I told you before, I have a hard time with the transcripts. I never can seem to find what I'm looking for. So if you would please find it for me? I'd like to know the truth
Jeff's an expert on the motion detector, bees. Make him tell YOU about it. :angel:

[Goody]

They moved the box around and photographed the contents, which happened to contain the insurance policy on the boys. At trial the lawyer presented these pictures and stated this is what they found in the den. Did he make the jury aware of the fact that it was the police who spread the contents around and photographed them as evidence. This makes it look like Darlie was all hot to trot to collect that insurance policy she had it spread out ready to file a claim. It isn't so much what he said to jury but he didn't say to them- all the story. He made it look more damming than it really was this way. What was that posted earier about hearsay and how it can totally change the meaning of something? This is a lawyers trick and a good one. If his case was so darn good why did the lawyer resort to this.
Because lawyers are lawyers and the court decides what can come in and what can't. Sometimes that chops up things in ways even the attys can't do anything about. You can ask this but you can't ask that...rules of evidence and all that. Then you have the competition going on between attys which is everpresent in our courts, some say as it should be. It is not an exercise in truth, you know. It is a p*ssing match between sides and boils down to who has the most evidence to support their claims.

But once again you are focusing on the least important and avoiding the most important. It is easy to believe the defendant in any case if you do that. Read her testimony and see what you think. I think she lied more than she told the truth. Esp that part about forgetting to tell Mercedes that she was dreaming when she said she fought with the intruder. That was just to cover her butt in case they called Mercedes to testify. It was very telling for me.

[SnootyVixen]

Jeff's an expert on the motion detector, bees. Make him tell YOU about it. :angel:


Why didn't you just tell her the truth when you were telling her everything else Goody.

[Goody]

Why didn't you just tell her the truth when you were telling her everything else Goody.
I didn't tell her much about the motion detector at all. I think I might have mentioned that supporters think walking a specific path could get one in and out of the yard without setting it off but no great attention was spent by me on the subject. Beesy is quite accomplished with the computer. I think she has done most of her own research.

Goody has been falsely accused <sniff, sniff>. I am deeply wounded. How could you be so callous, Jeffrey? How could you? Poor little goody.

[SnootyVixen]

I don't get all my answers only from the people on here. I do my own research also. That's how I am able to post links. As I told you before, I have a hard time with the transcripts. I never can seem to find what I'm looking for. So if you would please find it for me? I'd like to know the truth



Beesy, this is in Volume 30 sort of close to the beginning. There's probably more testimony about this but I didn't look for more. This officer is wiggling a lot on the hook but what he has to admit to is that there was a very good reason that the motion detector light was not on in the back yard when he got there the night of the crime. The light was triggered by motion in front of the door to the spa which was on the other side of the yard from the garage. Going to and fro from the gate to the window of the garage would not trigger it. I think there was also a report filed about the test that the officer's did. Or it might have been one of the one's that got lost. I don't remember now.
The part that I don't like is that we have had many many discussions about this over the years and these people all know this and yet no one bothered to let you know and yet they call themselves helping you learn the "truth" about the case. I'm not for sugarcoating anything to make her seem innocent but hey, at least pay attention to police testimony.
I think she's most probably innocent. I am not 100% sure of many things. But I think that her story changed some. I think it's obvious that she was in the utility room at least as far as the garage door.


Q. All right. You told us yesterday,
7 that you didn't know whether the lights in the backyard
8 were on or off at that time, didn't you?
9 A. No, sir.
10 Q. Were the lights off?
11 A. The lights in the backyard?
12 Q. Uh-huh. (Nodding head affirmatively).
13 A. Yes, sir, they were off.
14 Q. Okay. And when you walked from the
15 gate of the backyard over to the window that you had seen
16 from where you were in the garage, the lights did not
17 come on, did they?
18 A. Well, I didn't go there first.
19 Q. Okay.
20 A. In fact, I walked first to the spa,
21 and past the spa and around the corner, I looked over at
22 the window as I was going through.
23 Q. Did the lights ever go on?
24 A. Yes, sir.
25 Q. While you were in the backyard?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
556

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. The flood lights mounted on the spot
4 did.
5 Q. All right. Those are motion
6 detectors, are they not?
7 A. Yes, sir.
8 Q. Okay. Do you know where you were when
9 you set the motion detector light off?
10 A. I was approximately around the door of
11 the spa.
12 Q. The door of the spa?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Okay. The spa is toward the back of
15 the lot, is it not?
16 A. Yes, sir, it is.
17 Q. And on this State's Exhibit 8-A, this
18 would represent the spa, I assume?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. And you were back in here when you set
21 the -- when the light turned on?
22 A. I would have to see a front view of
23 the spa to see where the door was.
24 Q. Well --
25 A. I really don't remember. Right along
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
557

1 in the center of the building, yes, sir.
2 Q. And it would follow, would it not,
3 that the door would be somewhere at the end of this
4 cement sidewalk?
5 A. Yes, sir.
6 Q. It didn't set the light off when you
7 came in through the gate, did you?
8 A. No, sir.
9 Q. Okay. Later on some experiments were
10 done. Were you there when those were done?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. And you were able to -- or the police
13 officer conducting it, was able to run in this area to
14 the window back and forth and not set off the alarm --
15 set off the lights, was he not?
16 A. The only thing that I did when the
17 light came on, I stayed out of -- or at the entrance to
18 the yard. When the lights came on, I timed it to see how
19 long they were on.
20 Q. Okay. Were you there when the
21 experiment was conducted?
22 A. Yes, sir, I was.
23 Q. Okay. Well, you know then that he was
24 able to walk from the window, and run from the window --
25 both run and walk from the window to the gate without
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
558

1 setting off the light?
2 A. I'm not sure what path that he took.
3 Q. Okay. But you were there when that
4 experiment was conducted?
5 A. Yes, sir, I was. I timed it.
6 Q. Did you make any notes of that, or did
7 you just relay the timing to somebody?
8 A. I just relayed it to somebody.
9 Q. Matter of fact, the only note that you
10 made out there was -- you carry a little whip-out book,
11 don't you?
12 A. Yes, sir, I do.
13 Q. Could we see that?
14 A. Yes, sir.
15 Q. Okay. You had a book similar to that,
16 did you?
17 A. No, sir, I had this book.
18 Q. You had that particular book?
19 A. Yes, sir.
20 Q. Okay. Did you -- but you didn't note
21 the time; is that correct?
22 A. Concerning the yard?
23 Q. Yes, sir.
24 A. No, sir, I didn't. Now, I didn't have
25 this book, or I don't know if I had this book or not when
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
559

1 you're talking about the experiment with the light. I
2 had this book the night that I was dispatched to 5801
3 Eagle Drive.
4 Q. Oh, okay. But you went out there
5 later on, with respect to the experiment with the light?
6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. That happened a day or two later?
8 A. Something like that.
9 Q. Several days later, whatever?
10 A. Yes, sir.
11 Q. You didn't make any notes at that
12 time, you just relayed your information to someone there
13 who was taking notes?
14 A. Yes, sir.

[Goody]

Beesy, this is in Volume 30 sort of close to the beginning. There's probably more testimony about this but I didn't look for more. This officer is wiggling a lot on the hook but what he has to admit to is that there was a very good reason that the motion detector light was not on in the back yard when he got there the night of the crime. The light was triggered by motion in front of the door to the spa which was on the other side of the yard from the garage. Going to and fro from the gate to the window of the garage would not trigger it. I think there was also a report filed about the test that the officer's did. Or it might have been one of the one's that got lost. I don't remember now.
The part that I don't like is that we have had many many discussions about this over the years and these people all know this and yet no one bothered to let you know and yet they call themselves helping you learn the "truth" about the case. I'm not for sugarcoating anything to make her seem innocent but hey, at least pay attention to police testimony.
I think she's most probably innocent. I am not 100% sure of many things. But I think that her story changed some. I think it's obvious that she was in the utility room at least as far as the garage door.



If you are not Jeffrey, how could we have had many discussions on this this? Huh, Jeffie, huh?

Thanks for the reminder of this testimony. Contrary to your encyclopedic mind, Goody is not a walking steno pad. Completely forgot about it, but I got the gist of it down when I said supporters think one could walk a specific path to avoid setting the motion detector off. Again this is not as important as it could be if the light had been on when police arrived on the scene.

You and Beesy might make a good match, but if it gets ugly y'all will have to take it to GAC cause Jeana don't allow no pistol whipping round here.

[SnootyVixen]

If you are not Jeffrey, how could we have had many discussions on this this? Huh, Jeffie, huh?

Thanks for the reminder of this testimony. Contrary to your encyclopedic mind, Goody is not a walking steno pad. Completely forgot about it,


I think there is a lot you have forgotten. But that doesn't stop your opinions.

but I got the gist of it down when I said supporters think one could walk a specific path to avoid setting the motion detector off.

No Goody. It was the police conducting a test for this very purpose who decided that the light could not be activated by walking or running from the window to the gate. They tried it several times and the llight just never triggered. Why would you want to negate their work and their discovery and put it out that it was something that supporters think? I bet you didn't even read the testimony after I hunted it up for beesy and copied it here did you?

arrived on the scene.

You and Beesy might make a good match, but if it gets ugly y'all will have to take it to GAC cause Jeana don't allow no pistol whipping round here.

Pistol whipping Goody? I don't think beesy and I will be engaging in anything so amusing for you. So sorry.

[beesy]

If you are not Jeffrey, how could we have had many discussions on this this? Huh, Jeffie, huh?

Thanks for the reminder of this testimony. Contrary to your encyclopedic mind, Goody is not a walking steno pad. Completely forgot about it, but I got the gist of it down when I said supporters think one could walk a specific path to avoid setting the motion detector off. Again this is not as important as it could be if the light had been on when police arrived on the scene.

You and Beesy might make a good match, but if it gets ugly y'all will have to take it to GAC cause Jeana don't allow no pistol whipping round here Hey! Don't set up a fight for me. You ain't my manager and I ain't not boxer.

[beesy]

Pistol whipping Goody? I don't think beesy and I will be engaging in anything so amusing for you. So sorry. Nope I ain't into that
I think there is a lot you have forgotten. But that doesn't stop your opinions
I think that's uncalled for. Goody readily admits when she's wrong, but she's usually right. We all express opinions on here.
No Goody. It was the police conducting a test for this very purpose who decided that the light could not be activated by walking or running from the window to the gate. They tried it several times and the llight just never triggered. Why would you want to negate their work and their discovery and put it out that it was something that supporters think? I bet you didn't even read the testimony after I hunted it up for beesy and copied it here did you
Thank you for finding that. I get a little tired of researching things and then not getting any help in return.
That is not what he said. But the supporters say that's what he said. They ran all around the yard, sometimes it triggered and sometimes it didn't. We do know one thing, it wasn't on when they first searched the yard. The quickest path to the gate would have taken an intruder through that mulch which was not messed up. If he took the easiest path then the mulch should have been disturbed. If he took another, most likely he'd have triggered the light.
None of this can eliminate all of the blood evidence. And that the gate was latched. I think the idea that someone jumped over that fence is BS

[Goody]

Hey! Don't set up a fight for me. You ain't my manager and I ain't not boxer.
You ain't not a boxer, eh? :waitasec: Don't worry. I don't do bookings anymore. hahahhahahha. You and Jeffie will find your way to the ring soon enough without my help.

[Goody]

That is not what he said. But the supporters say that's what he said. They ran all around the yard, sometimes it triggered and sometimes it didn't. We do know one thing, it wasn't on when they first searched the yard. The quickest path to the gate would have taken an intruder through that mulch which was not messed up. If he took the easiest path then the mulch should have been disturbed. If he took another, most likely he'd have triggered the light.
None of this can eliminate all of the blood evidence. And that the gate was latched. I think the idea that someone jumped over that fence is BS

I totally agree, bees. Nor did a fleeing intruder stop to lift that gate up to place it in the correct position to latch before running to his getaway car. :doh: Jeff doesn't work with common sense approaches. He prefers any theory that will offer a little loop hole for doubt. The fact that he thinks anyone could convince a jury that these theories are a likely alternative to what police say happened is sillier than the theory in the first place. But that is Jeff in full living color. :blowkiss:

[SnootyVixen]

Nope I ain't into that

I think that's uncalled for. Goody readily admits when she's wrong, but she's usually right. We all express opinions on here.

Thank you for finding that. I get a little tired of researching things and then not getting any help in return.
That is not what he said. But the supporters say that's what he said. They ran all around the yard, sometimes it triggered and sometimes it didn't. We do know one thing, it wasn't on when they first searched the yard. The quickest path to the gate would have taken an intruder through that mulch which was not messed up. If he took the easiest path then the mulch should have been disturbed. If he took another, most likely he'd have triggered the light.
None of this can eliminate all of the blood evidence. And that the gate was latched. I think the idea that someone jumped over that fence is BS


Geez. You are certainly right where you belong. Can't even read the damn testimony and get it straight. I think I'm gonna have to take a wee break from you folks. You wear a person down.

[SnootyVixen]

Nope I ain't into that

I think that's uncalled for. Goody readily admits when she's wrong, but she's usually right. We all express opinions on here.

Thank you for finding that. I get a little tired of researching things and then not getting any help in return.
That is not what he said. But the supporters say that's what he said. They ran all around the yard, sometimes it triggered and sometimes it didn't. We do know one thing, it wasn't on when they first searched the yard. The quickest path to the gate would have taken an intruder through that mulch which was not messed up. If he took the easiest path then the mulch should have been disturbed. If he took another, most likely he'd have triggered the light.
None of this can eliminate all of the blood evidence. And that the gate was latched. I think the idea that someone jumped over that fence is BS


If you don't mind would you point out where in the testimony he said that they ran all around in the yard and sometimes they triggered it and sometimes they didn't. Let me ask you another question. Do you really want to know the truth about this matter or not? Sometimes I can't tell with you.
Did you even read the part where he said that he had to walk to the door of the spa before he triggered it? And that the spa is on the opposite side of the yard from the garage? I don't think he said that. I think you would have to know the layout of the yard. Do you? If you don't there are some photos in MTJD. Are you saying that he ran from the window to the door of the spa and then to turned around and ran back to the gate? That's the only way to turn that motion detector on. Can't you read this kind of testimony and get the facts that they are saying out of all the verbiage? You have to be able to do that to understand any testimony. There's more testimony about this. Are you even interested enough to find it for yourself? I find that I just don't really care that much what you think about this case. I know that your foundation for making your judgements is faulty because of where you got your information but that's your problem and not mine. So I shall butt out.

[deanws]

If you are not Jeffrey, how could we have had many discussions on this this? Huh, Jeffie, huh?

Thanks for the reminder of this testimony. Contrary to your encyclopedic mind, Goody is not a walking steno pad. Completely forgot about it, but I got the gist of it down when I said supporters think one could walk a specific path to avoid setting the motion detector off. Again this is not as important as it could be if the light had been on when police arrived on the scene.

You and Beesy might make a good match, but if it gets ugly y'all will have to take it to GAC cause Jeana don't allow no pistol whipping round here. Snoots has already said he was Jeff. When I asked him why he lied...he replied that he lied because he didn't know how he would be treated. Can't get out of it snoots.....it is all here.:loser:

[deanws]

Geez. You are certainly right where you belong. Can't even read the damn testimony and get it straight. I think I'm gonna have to take a wee break from you folks. You wear a person down.Works for me snoots/jeff. By the way..keep you :liar: straight. You already admitted to being jeff.

[Goody]

If you don't mind would you point out where in the testimony he said that they ran all around in the yard and sometimes they triggered it and sometimes they didn't. Let me ask you another question. Do you really want to know the truth about this matter or not? Sometimes I can't tell with you.
Did you even read the part where he said that he had to walk to the door of the spa before he triggered it? And that the spa is on the opposite side of the yard from the garage? I don't think he said that. I think you would have to know the layout of the yard. Do you? If you don't there are some photos in MTJD. Are you saying that he ran from the window to the door of the spa and then to turned around and ran back to the gate? That's the only way to turn that motion detector on. Can't you read this kind of testimony and get the facts that they are saying out of all the verbiage? You have to be able to do that to understand any testimony. There's more testimony about this. Are you even interested enough to find it for yourself? I find that I just don't really care that much what you think about this case. I know that your foundation for making your judgements is faulty because of where you got your information but that's your problem and not mine. So I shall butt out.
It is not like we are talking about a 40 acre field here. The lots in that subd. are quite small and the back yard has all sorts of things, including a hot tub and lean-to (or cabanna if you prefer) and a pond with a monument to a dead cat. There was not many feet to walk in there no matter which direction you went. So when you say they had to walk all the way to the cabanna door, just how many feet from the sidewalk are you talking about?

[Goody]

Snoots has already said he was Jeff. When I asked him why he lied...he replied that he lied because he didn't know how he would be treated. Can't get out of it snoots.....it is all here.:loser:
Jeff used to call me pompous all the time. And that was one of his nicer endearments. So far snoots has called me pompous two or three times. And shoot, just days ago we were great friends. I am so disappointed.

[deanws]

Jeff used to call me pompous all the time. And that was one of his nicer endearments. So far snoots has called me pompous two or three times. And shoot, just days ago we were great friends. I am so disappointed.I have no use for someone who :liar: and who kills chickens for voodoo. :sick:

[Goody]

I have no use for someone who :liar: and who kills chickens for voodoo. :sick:
O, gawd, not another curse on goody. :chicken: I guess I will just have to sic God's angels on him. No power greater than that.

[SnootyVixen]

It is not like we are talking about a 40 acre field here. The lots in that subd. are quite small and the back yard has all sorts of things, including a hot tub and lean-to (or cabanna if you prefer) and a pond with a monument to a dead cat. There was not many feet to walk in there no matter which direction you went. So when you say they had to walk all the way to the cabanna door, just how many feet from the sidewalk are you talking about?

What a lot of babble. Look at the diagram. Look at the photos. You can see the back yard. You can see the walks. what's so difficult about that. Why do I have to do it for you?

[SnootyVixen]

It is not like we are talking about a 40 acre field here. The lots in that subd. are quite small and the back yard has all sorts of things, including a hot tub and lean-to (or cabanna if you prefer) and a pond with a monument to a dead cat. There was not many feet to walk in there no matter which direction you went. So when you say they had to walk all the way to the cabanna door, just how many feet from the sidewalk are you talking about?


And just in case you mistakedly thought I was posting to you when I wrote my post, I wasn't. I was talking to beesy.

[SnootyVixen]

Snoots has already said he was Jeff. When I asked him why he lied...he replied that he lied because he didn't know how he would be treated. Can't get out of it snoots.....it is all here.:loser:

You bunch are such a hoot.

[SnootyVixen]

Jeff used to call me pompous all the time. And that was one of his nicer endearments. So far snoots has called me pompous two or three times. And shoot, just days ago we were great friends. I am so disappointed.

I don't recall your ever being friends with Jeff.

[SnootyVixen]

Jeff used to call me pompous all the time. And that was one of his nicer endearments. So far snoots has called me pompous two or three times. And shoot, just days ago we were great friends. I am so disappointed.

Maybe it's time you looked into whether or not you're pompous.

[SnootyVixen]

O, gawd, not another curse on goody. :chicken: I guess I will just have to sic God's angels on him. No power greater than that.

Goody, trust me, everything's not always about you.

[deanws]

And just in case you mistakedly thought I was posting to you when I wrote my post, I wasn't. I was talking to beesy.Doesn't make any difference who you were talking to...you are still wrong.

[beesy]

Geez. You are certainly right where you belong. Can't even read the damn testimony and get it straight. I think I'm gonna have to take a wee break from you folks. You wear a person down. What in the world? Oh, that's real nice. How'd you know I was in a home for the mentally impaired? It's not nice to make fun of people

[deanws]

You bunch are such a hoot.YOU did say it. Either you were lying then....or you are lying now?!? Either way...still puts you as a :liar: .

[beesy]

[QUOTE]If you don't mind would you point out where in the testimony he said that they ran all around in the yard and sometimes they triggered it and sometimes they didn't. Let me ask you another question. Do you really want to know the truth about this matter or not? Sometimes I can't tell with you14 the window back and forth and not set off the alarm --
15 set off the lights, was he not?
16 A. The only thing that I did when the
17 light came on, I stayed out of -- or at the entrance to
18 the yard. When the lights came on, I timed it to see how
19 long they were on.
20 Q. Okay. Were you there when the
21 experiment was conducted?
22 A. Yes, sir, I was.
23 Q. Okay. Well, you know then that he was
24 able to walk from the window, and run from the window --
25 both run and walk from the window to the gate without
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
558

1 setting off the light?
2 A. I'm not sure what path that he took.
3 Q. Okay. But you were there when that
4 experiment was conducted?
5 A. Yes, sir, I was. I timed it.
Did you even read the part where he said that he had to walk to the door of the spa before he triggered it? And that the spa is on the opposite side of the yard from the garage? I don't think he said that. I think you would have to know the layout of the yard. Do you? If you don't there are some photos in MTJD. Are you saying that he ran from the window to the door of the spa and then to turned around and ran back to the gate? I know the layout of the yard. To me it looks like the intruder would have to mess up the mulch or trigger the light. That's what I think! The only way I would know for sure is to do it myself. If you'll notice in the testimony he says, "I don't know which path he took".
In the experiment, the officer doing the running, did it more than once. I'm not talking about that night.
I know the truth. The final truth is that Darlie did it. The light not being on is just a little odd, it does not prove her innocence. It does not prove her guilt. It was these little things which made LE curious enough to dig in deeper and find the killer.
That's the only way to turn that motion detector on. Can't you read this kind of testimony and get the facts that they are saying out of all the verbiage? You have to be able to do that to understand any testimony. There's more testimony about this. Are you even interested enough to find it for yourself? I find that I just don't really care that much what you think about this case. I know that your foundation for making your judgements is faulty because of where you got your information but that's your problem and not mine. So I shall butt out. Yes, I can. It's just not as cut and dry as you're trying to make it. Did you see how many exhibits I posted for Jane to look at? It took me an hour, maybe longer to find all those damn pictures. Nobody else helped her, nobody else did it. Did you see the photos and research I posted about blood spatter? I started the darn thread. I did all of that research about the stupid LPPH for you! Goody had never even thought about it, so how could she have led me to think that? I had a foundation before I even came here. I came here because I read all 4 books in '99 when they were published and have kept up with Darlie on and off. I had TWO MTJD's. This past summer(June 6, as a matter of fact, spooky) I was looking for something under my bed. I pulled out all of the books and thought "hmm, I wonder if she and Darin are still together." When I did a search for that this site came up. I already knew alot about the case. Alot! I am not a lemming. You know that I have not been rude to you since you came back. I called you smart for christs sake. Then you thank me for the research I did by saying it's wrong and insulting me. Goody did not help me get my B.A. and then my M.S. Goody did not get me the job as Director of a historic house museum. I've asked for your help, as others have asked for mine. This is what I get? Whatever this thing is with you and Goody, I am not a part of. I don't even know Jeff or whoever you are. Thanks alot Snooty, what VENOM you spew

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Darlie has had 9 years to earn a new trial. Things like this have been submitted. So by saying the prosecution misled the jury can't stand up after 9 years and all of her state appeals. I mentioned Tim Hennis before. Something would have turned up if there was something to turn up. His team refuted every piece of evidence with solid explanations. Darlie just has excuses. Darlie just says shoddy investigation. That is another reason I don't trust her. I think that is also a symptom of narcissitic disorder. You know, everybody else is an idiot. People who think she did it are idiots. The cops are idiots, the prosecution are idiots and mean, with a special hatred of her, the judges are idiots, the jurors are idiots. Everything was tainted, because the labs are filled with idiots. Forensic experts are idiots The only people who knows anything is the person who has this disorder. Mulder is an idiot. Jeff MacDonald is the same way. On the stand he even said "well if the CID can really type blood".


You're a colorful character, but you are a little scary. I respect life. I don't think I'm the appropriate person to say that to.

I do not have to be patient about anything. If you would consult something else besides Chris' book, you might not either
I see nothing in those tests which could prove anything. Give her a new trial, I don't care. The result would be the same which is a waste of your tax money
What makes me scary to you. :blushing: I'm embarrased and amused.

To those people, who still agree that Davis got a good solid conviction. a new trial would seem like a waste of money. To those who think grandstanding and silly string are what got Darlie convicted and not a good solid conviction-based on crime scene evidence, then a new trial is warranted.

You stand behind the work done, I don't think any conspiracy's existed, I do think Davis did a crappy job as well as Mulder.

Why does Judge Francis make denial, after denial, after denial, to the requests for access to the crime scene evidence, more than one lawyer friend I know agree on this point, he shouldnt have, and the federal courts may as well. If any evidence exists that shows Darlie's intruders exist the conviction will be thrown out. Thats why we should be patient more evidence testing and more information couldn't hurt could it. Like I said before it may prove Darlie guilty as sin. It may not prove anything at all- or anything different than we already know.

I found a mistake, or at least John Douglas has written differently in one of his books. In the appeals states brief it is stated RR .40: 3691-93 and it looks like it came also from the FBI that defendants bring knives to a crime scene. If my memory serves me the case John Douglas talks about in one of his books. The husband of the victim is suspect until he learns something. Criminals talk to each other in jail. They obviously have the time on their hands. They teach each other stuff, like don't break into a house with a weapon. If caught, and there is always a chance, you will get more time as you can say I only commited B AND E the state can say but with intent to do harm cause you brought a weapon with you. Logic tells you that every house in America has some kitchen knives. If you do break in, with your own knife, and eventually have a confrontation with the home owner and commit murder you get dp in some states cause it shows premeditated murder. If you were only there to rob why did you bring a weapon with you-clear intent. I swear it is in one of John Douglas's books. Since I use my public library I don't have a copy to quote. I can't remember the title either but I think the cover has his picture on it. Damm this sometimers.

My only point in this is and it may not apply in Darlie's case at all. Where you have a crime scene with multiple victims and multiple knifes, only one knife recovered, it is not unlogical to assume that not only are you dealing with 2 perps but one of them is a prior offender and has been in the jail house education system.


I'm not saying anyone else who thinks Darlie is guilty doesn't have respect for life. But my personal code of behaviour and judgement does make me want to know more. There is no way back if we made a mistake and I still have some doubts based more on not understanding how ALL the evidence fits together.

Are you saying that all the information on the DARLIE HOME SITE IS UNTRUE.

Or just so misleading it raises questions in any person's mind.

This blood cast off ,if correct is 100% proof that Darlie did it.

Blood cast off is how we nailed my husband's friends killer. Talk about a clean-up. Luminol couldn't detect anything. He messed up though and left behind just enough..........

[beesy]

What makes me scary to you. :blushing: I'm embarrased and amused Oh, I was just teasing you. I'm sorry.

To those people, who still agree that Davis got a good solid conviction. a new trial would seem like a waste of money. To those who think grandstanding and silly string are what got Darlie convicted and not a good solid conviction-based on crime scene evidence, then a new trial is warranted.
You stand behind the work done, I don't think any conspiracy's existed, I do think Davis did a crappy job as well as MulderBut the people who think the SS party nailed her don't know everything. So right I'm sure they'd think a new trial is a wonderful thing. You're right, Mulder was not at his best, but I do not think that warrents a new trial. But, like I say, bring it on. Did you hear than Andrea Yates is getting a new trial? It starts in March. Should be interesting.
Why does Judge Francis make denial, after denial, after denial, to the requests for access to the crime scene evidenceI'm not very familiar with this part. Are you talking about recently? I know they got everything during the trial. If the State was supressing evidence they screwed up because they entered pictures and documents. Fill me in on this. He's not the only one who's looked at her appeals and denied them. So I'm confused.
If any evidence exists that shows Darlie's intruders exist the conviction will be thrown out. Thats why we should be patient more evidence testing and more information couldn't hurt could it. Like I said before it may prove Darlie guilty as sin. It may not prove anything at all- or anything different than we already know.
What are they testing anyway? I can't remember. Test away, I say.
I found a mistake, or at least John Douglas has written differently in one of his books. In the appeals states brief it is stated RR .40: 3691-93 and it looks like it came also from the FBI that defendants bring knives to a crime scene. If my memory serves me the case John Douglas talks about in one of his books. The husband of the victim is suspect until he learns something. Criminals talk to each other in jail. They obviously have the time on their hands. They teach each other stuff, like don't break into a house with a weapon. If caught, and there is always a chance, you will get more time as you can say I only commited B AND E the state can say but with intent to do harm cause you brought a weapon with you. Logic tells you that every house in America has some kitchen knives. If you do break in, with your own knife, and eventually have a confrontation with the home owner and commit murder you get dp in some states cause it shows premeditated murder. If you were only there to rob why did you bring a weapon with you-clear intent. I swear it is in one of John Douglas's books. Since I use my public library I don't have a copy to quote. I can't remember the title either but I think the cover has his picture on it. Damm this sometimers
Again, I'm trusting John Douglas on this. Yes, criminals do talk. I don't think you could call what Douglas said a mistake. He's worked on alot of cases. Isn't he the man who coined "serial killer"? So if the intruder did not bring a weapon, what was he doing there? He didn't steal anything. Another thing, the kitchen was dark, except for the glow of the TV. Grantd, it was a huge TV, but still. The butcher block was in an area which would not have been lit up very well by the TV. Chris says something really stupid in MTJD, more than 1, but this is really stupid. He says the kitchen was too dark for the intruder to see Darlie's jewelry, but then we are expected to believe the guy found the butcher block in an unfamiliar house? The light was not on in the garage either. He ran through it blind as he tried to escape.
My only point in this is and it may not apply in Darlie's case at all. Where you have a crime scene with multiple victims and multiple knifes, only one knife recovered, it is not unlogical to assume that not only are you dealing with 2 perps but one of them is a prior offender and has been in the jail house education system Why? There was only one knife. Same goes if there was another one though. How did they find the butcher block in the dark? He did they escape through the dark garage? Why did they go into the house, get the bread knife, cut the screen with the bread knife, PUT IT BACK, do their thing, then escape through the dark garage? You can't dismiss everything Darlie says as trauma. She is very clear that she followed one man through the kitchen, then stopped, realized the light was OFF, turned around, went back, turned it on, then picked up the knife. Huh? Does that make sense? . She turned her back on a man she had just sometimes been struggling with, sometimes seen up close, sometimes far away. Either way, this man was a stranger in her home in the middle of the night and she turned her back to him. Do you know why Darlie says she turned around? That part is never left out of her stories, the part about following him, then turning around to hit the light. She says that because she realized she couldn't get up all of her footprints. She saw that they went back and forth. Bingo! So her story is she goes over and comes back and so there, then that's covered. She did not say anything about the sink until she saw the sink had been taken.
Are you saying that all the information on the DARLIE HOME SITE IS UNTRUE.
Or just so misleading it raises questions in any person's mind.
This blood cast off ,if correct is 100% proof that Darlie did it
I think some of it is flat out lies. Bloody footprints leading away from the garage? Isn't that what you said? Most of it is misleading. They say there should have been cast-off on the ceiling. I don't think anybody even looked at the ceiling. How does that prove her innocence or her guilt? It's the blood on her that matters. We know people were being stabbed. So they don't say all of that. And the fingerprints, they don't say they are too smeared to get a clear look. They don't say that Darlie cannot be ruled out. I've read on one of the sites and they actually say it didn't match her. That's a lie. The expert even said it's indicative of an adult woman or small framed male, leaning more towards the woman. And don't ask me how he knows that.
[QUOTE]Blood cast off is how we nailed my husband's friends killer. Talk about a clean-up. Luminol couldn't detect anything. He messed up though and left behind just enough
Then why are you having a hard time believing the cast-off in Damon's blood on Darlie's back shows she stabbed him?

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Oh, I was just teasing you. I'm sorry.

But the people who think the SS party nailed her don't know everything. So right I'm sure they'd think a new trial is a wonderful thing. You're right, Mulder was not at his best, but I do not think that warrents a new trial. But, like I say, bring it on. Did you hear than Andrea Yates is getting a new trial? It starts in March. Should be interesting.
I'm not very familiar with this part. Are you talking about recently? I know they got everything during the trial. If the State was supressing evidence they screwed up because they entered pictures and documents. Fill me in on this. He's not the only one who's looked at her appeals and denied them. So I'm confused.

What are they testing anyway? I can't remember. Test away, I say.

Again, I'm trusting John Douglas on this. Yes, criminals do talk. I don't think you could call what Douglas said a mistake. He's worked on alot of cases. Isn't he the man who coined "serial killer"? So if the intruder did not bring a weapon, what was he doing there? He didn't steal anything. Another thing, the kitchen was dark, except for the glow of the TV. Grantd, it was a huge TV, but still. The butcher block was in an area which would not have been lit up very well by the TV. Chris says something really stupid in MTJD, more than 1, but this is really stupid. He says the kitchen was too dark for the intruder to see Darlie's jewelry, but then we are expected to believe the guy found the butcher block in an unfamiliar house? The light was not on in the garage either. He ran through it blind as he tried to escape.
Why? There was only one knife. Same goes if there was another one though. How did they find the butcher block in the dark? He did they escape through the dark garage? Why did they go into the house, get the bread knife, cut the screen with the bread knife, PUT IT BACK, do their thing, then escape through the dark garage? You can't dismiss everything Darlie says as trauma. She is very clear that she followed one man through the kitchen, then stopped, realized the light was OFF, turned around, went back, turned it on, then picked up the knife. Huh? Does that make sense? . She turned her back on a man she had just sometimes been struggling with, sometimes seen up close, sometimes far away. Either way, this man was a stranger in her home in the middle of the night and she turned her back to him. Do you know why Darlie says she turned around? That part is never left out of her stories, the part about following him, then turning around to hit the light. She says that because she realized she couldn't get up all of her footprints. She saw that they went back and forth. Bingo! So her story is she goes over and comes back and so there, then that's covered. She did not say anything about the sink until she saw the sink had been taken.

I think some of it is flat out lies. Bloody footprints leading away from the garage? Isn't that what you said? Most of it is misleading. They say there should have been cast-off on the ceiling. I don't think anybody even looked at the ceiling. How does that prove her innocence or her guilt? It's the blood on her that matters. We know people were being stabbed. So they don't say all of that. And the fingerprints, they don't say they are too smeared to get a clear look. They don't say that Darlie cannot be ruled out. I've read on one of the sites and they actually say it didn't match her. That's a lie. The expert even said it's indicative of an adult woman or small framed male, leaning more towards the woman. And don't ask me how he knows that.

Then why are you having a hard time believing the cast-off in Damon's blood on Darlie's back shows she stabbed him?
I'm NOT HAVING A Hard time with the cast off just show me more of it. In order for the knife to cast it off at the point of arc that she had to have had it would also leave cast off on something else too. As it is traveling upward. The furniture the wall. Where is the other cast off coming up. OTHER WISE WE GOT A VOID. It was your site got me thinking read it again about how voids are created when crime scenes show furniture moved after the bleeding starts, or people are standing in the way creating a void. An absence of blood.
This could actually end the debate for the was Darin involved and no forensic evidence points to him discussion.
If you have no other arcing pattern in front of the trajectory of the blade then you have a void proof someone was standing there. This piece of information is just something I observed I'll hand off to those better gifted than I in interpretation. It was your link that made me discover this. Or made me surmise it.

That's what I meant by a map here we have it on the wall going upward in a 90 degree angle. Do you find any pics in MTJD.

[beesy]

I'm NOT HAVING A Hard time with the cast off just show me more of it. In order for the knife to cast it off at the point of arc that she had to have had it would also leave cast off on something else too. As it is traveling upward. The furniture the wall. Where is the other cast off coming up. OTHER WISE WE GOT A VOID. It was your site got me thinking read it again about how voids are created when crime scenes show furniture moved after the bleeding starts, or people are standing in the way creating a void. An absence of blood.
This could actually end the debate for the was Darin involved and no forensic evidence points to him discussion.
If you have no other arcing pattern in front of the trajectory of the blade then you have a void proof someone was standing there. This piece of information is just something I observed I'll hand off to those better gifted than I in interpretation. It was your link that made me discover this. Or made me surmise it.

That's what I meant by a map here we have it on the wall going upward in a 90 degree angle. Do you find any pics in MTJD. Ohhhhhh, I get it. Someone standing in the way, someone like Darin. Hmmm, interesting. There is cast-off on the wall near where Damon died. As I said, you'll just have to wait until cami returns or Dani. They are both very familiar with that. It won't end the debate. He already said he was in contact with both boys. He did not have a shirt on. He went to the Neals and supposedly washed his face and hands. It wouldn't take but a second to check his back. He lucked out IMO.
I think the timeline should end the debate. I find it very hard to believe that both attacks on Damon occured before Darin came downstairs. I hear that "Damon, Damon, Damon" on the 911 tape and get the shivers. It is possible that child is being killed right then. So, if Darlie stabbed Damon the 2nd time while Darin was downstairs, of course that means he knows. Because she was on the phone, he could have helped her hold him down. I don't know. Right after the 3 Damons on the tape, Darlie becomes very distracted, even very annoyed sounding. 911 is saying "ma'am, ma'am?" and Darlie says "what what WHAT?". It sounds like she is busy and 911 is interupting her. It's very creepy. Have you listened to the tape yet?

[deanws]

I agree beesy. I think him not having a shirt on might have been real lucky for him. The 911 tape didn't help her one bit did it!?! ;)

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Ohhhhhh, I get it. Someone standing in the way, someone like Darin. Hmmm, interesting. There is cast-off on the wall near where Damon died. As I said, you'll just have to wait until cami returns or Dani. They are both very familiar with that. It won't end the debate. He already said he was in contact with both boys. He did not have a shirt on. He went to the Neals and supposedly washed his face and hands. It wouldn't take but a second to check his back. He lucked out IMO.
I think the timeline should end the debate. I find it very hard to believe that both attacks on Damon occured before Darin came downstairs. I hear that "Damon, Damon, Damon" on the 911 tape and get the shivers. It is possible that child is being killed right then. So, if Darlie stabbed Damon the 2nd time while Darin was downstairs, of course that means he knows. Because she was on the phone, he could have helped her hold him down. I don't know. Right after the 3 Damons on the tape, Darlie becomes very distracted, even very annoyed sounding. 911 is saying "ma'am, ma'am?" and Darlie says "what what WHAT?". It sounds like she is busy and 911 is interupting her. It's very creepy. Have you listened to the tape yet?
Just for you I'll listen to it again but the last time I cried for over an hour. Got really depressed, it broke my heart to think I was listening to the last few minutes of Damons life.

[Goody]

Just for you I'll listen to it again but the last time I cried for over an hour. Got really depressed, it broke my heart to think I was listening to the last few minutes of Damons life.
How long do you think Devon was dead at that point?

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

[QUOTE=Goody]How long do you think Devon was dead at that point?[/QUOT
Well I'd need a liver temp to be for sure. He was on the floor the coldest point of any room. Could he have been dead for a while? What does the time of death say. Do you think they overloooked something?

[michelle]

Ohhhhhh, I get it. Someone standing in the way, someone like Darin. Hmmm, interesting. There is cast-off on the wall near where Damon died. As I said, you'll just have to wait until cami returns or Dani. They are both very familiar with that. It won't end the debate. He already said he was in contact with both boys. He did not have a shirt on. He went to the Neals and supposedly washed his face and hands. It wouldn't take but a second to check his back. He lucked out IMO.
I think the timeline should end the debate. I find it very hard to believe that both attacks on Damon occured before Darin came downstairs. I hear that "Damon, Damon, Damon" on the 911 tape and get the shivers. It is possible that child is being killed right then. So, if Darlie stabbed Damon the 2nd time while Darin was downstairs, of course that means he knows. Because she was on the phone, he could have helped her hold him down. I don't know. Right after the 3 Damons on the tape, Darlie becomes very distracted, even very annoyed sounding. 911 is saying "ma'am, ma'am?" and Darlie says "what what WHAT?". It sounds like she is busy and 911 is interupting her. It's very creepy. Have you listened to the tape yet? I remember specifically hearing her seem to get frustrated with the operator and thinking to myself " whats up with that" I mean if she isnt guilty of course she was flipping out, but that tape to me when i first heard it there was too many red flags, and i have always been a "fence sitter".

[Goody]

[QUOTE=Goody]How long do you think Devon was dead at that point?[/QUOT
Well I'd need a liver temp to be for sure. He was on the floor the coldest point of any room. Could he have been dead for a while? What does the time of death say. Do you think they overloooked something?
There is no time of death recorded for Devon because he did not die in the presence of medical personnel.

The body temp decreases approx 1 to 1.5 degrees per hour after death. It was summer and the air was on. No one ever spoke about what the temp in the house was but I imagine it was quite cool since it was such a hot day...around 100 degrees, I think.

Devon was covered and not taken out of the house for some time. He was already in the beginning stages of rigor when autopsied. So truthfully there could be a variance there on time of death for him....as much as an hour, maybe more.

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Can't figure out this link stuff so I entered in google search, star map june 6,1996 to find out what moon power we have going for illumination. The month of June had 2 full moons in it. One on the 30, and the other 28 days before. That means the moon was waning 3 days.

[beesy]

Can't figure out this link stuff so I entered in google search, star map june 6,1996 to find out what moon power we have going for illumination. The month of June had 2 full moons in it. One on the 30, and the other 28 days before. That means the moon was waning 3 days. Does that mean an intruder could have run blind through a darkened garage or was there enough moonlight? You also have to take into consideration any structures or trees which could block the moonlight. As well as all of the junk piled up against the windows.

[Goody]

Can't figure out this link stuff so I entered in google search, star map june 6,1996 to find out what moon power we have going for illumination. The month of June had 2 full moons in it. One on the 30, and the other 28 days before. That means the moon was waning 3 days.
It also means there was no full moon on the 5/6th.

[txsvicki]

I remember specifically hearing her seem to get frustrated with the operator and thinking to myself " whats up with that" I mean if she isnt guilty of course she was flipping out, but that tape to me when i first heard it there was too many red flags, and i have always been a "fence sitter".

That tape does have some red flags. Darlie is really talking in the high pitched tones and hollering but there are a couple of times that her voice completely changes instantly and then goes back to the high pitch crying. It gives me the shivers to hear her ask "When is it (ambulance) going to get here?" and then when she says someone came in and intentionally did this "Darin". The way she said "Darrin". It was so cold and mean sounding.

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

How much love would you have for someone who did this. Wouldn't you feel some anger and hate towards someone too, if she is telling the truth the fact that she gets mad at the idea of someone violating her home, killing her children doesn't seem strange to me.

What does seem strange is the fact that Darin might have been asking her who did this. Right before she states, in her angry voice, you can hear Darin in the background. If he is the attacker, or hired someone he was afraid Darlie might recognize from the shop he might be trying to see how much she knew.

[Goody]

How much love would you have for someone who did this. Wouldn't you feel some anger and hate towards someone too, if she is telling the truth the fact that she gets mad at the idea of someone violating her home, killing her children doesn't seem strange to me.

What does seem strange is the fact that Darin might have been asking her who did this. Right before she states, in her angry voice, you can hear Darin in the background. If he is the attacker, or hired someone he was afraid Darlie might recognize from the shop he might be trying to see how much she knew.
The fist police officer was there at that time. I suspect Darin said something to him that made Darlie feel put her in a bad light so she got very defensive, almost as if she is reminding him about what he is supposed to say.

[beesy]

Can't figure out this link stuff so I entered in google search, star map june 6,1996 to find out what moon power we have going for illumination. The month of June had 2 full moons in it. One on the 30, and the other 28 days before. That means the moon was waning 3 days. This is good research you're doing. Something a defense attorney would do on appeal. It might even be worth considering except that this moonlight factor in no way addresses all of the blood and other forensic evidence. If the garage being dark was the MAIN focus of her guilt, then good on ya, but it's not. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_1_206.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)

[Goody]

You can tell by the way Waddell barks at Darlie, "Nothing is missing, Mrs Routier," that Darin has told him already that nothing was taken. Darlie certainly didn't and there is no way for Waddell to know if anything was taken. Darin says Waddell never talked to him, but that can't be true because we can hear Darin talking to someone and we can hear Waddell off and on and we can tell by Darlie's statements that she is talking to someone other than that the dispatcher. Waddell is not happy with her at all and I suspect it is because he is being told out of range (for the tape) that they don't who or why this happened, and he isn't buying it. I think Waddell knows right off the bat that he is looking at the killer(s) and he is probably not sure what to expect. All he can do is try to keep the situation under control until Walling arrives.

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

This is good research you're doing. Something a defense attorney would do on appeal. It might even be worth considering except that this moonlight factor in no way addresses all of the blood and other forensic evidence. If the garage being dark was the MAIN focus of her guilt, then good on ya, but it's not. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_1_206.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)
On any case you have to counter the theroy with one that disproves or impeaches witness or expert testimony. There was moonlight enough to see in the garage.
Point made-don't blow air up my skirt. I won't blow holes in your ship.

[Goody]

On any case you have to counter the theroy with one that disproves or impeaches witness or expert testimony. There was moonlight enough to see in the garage.
Point made-don't blow air up my skirt. I won't blow holes in your ship.
I thought you learned that the moon was not full that night or that it was overcast or something.

One thing to also consider is there was all kinds of artificial light on the corner where Darlie lived and back to the alley. Actually I should have said from the alley to the corner of their lot since the alley is closest to the entrance of the subdivision. There was a street light near the alley entrance, maybe across from their driveway on the other side of the street, and another street light across the other street (Eagle) which ran in front of Darlie's house, and three flood lights on in her front yard on the fountain. The lots are not huge so you basically have two street lights less than a half of block apart and three flood lights almost on top of them.....more than enough light to keep the area very well lit at night (and a horrible random choice for burglars or rapists). Makes you wonder if they were out of work actors looking for stage lights. (Ok, bad joke, I know.) But......

Now that we know the area is very well lit, we also have to take in consideration the heigth of the privacy fence around the back yard and how much of that light it would block out by creating dark shadows, etc. And were their blinds on the garage windows? If so, were they lowered or raised?

That being said, the window in question was closer to the back gate than I originally thought. Not sure what that means. I guess that it is just another detail to work into the puzzle of was there light or not in that garage?

I guess realistically that if there was an intruder it is possible he could have gotten thru the cluttered garage unscathed, but you almost have to have some evidence that the dude existed and was there that night to even entertain such possibilities.

At best though, I think the garage would not have been well lit. Some light might have helped but it was so cluttered and the path was not in a straight line, it was bound to be difficult for anyone to maneuver in the dark without knocking things over. Just no evidence that anyone other than the family was in the garage that night. So while there is a possibility, I think it is very, very slim in any workable application. You almost have to prove the intruder existed and that he was actually there that night to make this theory believable.

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

I thought you learned that the moon was not full that night or that it was overcast or something.

One thing to also consider is there was all kinds of artificial light on the corner where Darlie lived and back to the alley. Actually I should have said from the alley to the corner of their lot since the alley is closest to the entrance of the subdivision. There was a street light near the alley entrance, maybe across from their driveway on the other side of the street, and another street light across the other street (Eagle) which ran in front of Darlie's house, and three flood lights on in her front yard on the fountain. The lots are not huge so you basically have two street lights less than a half of block apart and three flood lights almost on top of them.....more than enough light to keep the area very well lit at night (and a horrible random choice for burglars or rapists). Makes you wonder if they were out of work actors looking for stage lights. (Ok, bad joke, I know.) But......

Now that we know the area is very well lit, we also have to take in consideration the heigth of the privacy fence around the back yard and how much of that light it would block out by creating dark shadows, etc. And were their blinds on the garage windows? If so, were they lowered or raised?

That being said, the window in question was closer to the back gate than I originally thought. Not sure what that means. I guess that it is just another detail to work into the puzzle of was there light or not in that garage?

I guess realistically that if there was an intruder it is possible he could have gotten thru the cluttered garage unscathed, but you almost have to have some evidence that the dude existed and was there that night to even entertain such possibilities.

At best though, I think the garage would not have been well lit. Some light might have helped but it was so cluttered and the path was not in a straight line, it was bound to be difficult for anyone to maneuver in the dark without knocking things over. Just no evidence that anyone other than the family was in the garage that night. So while there is a possibility, I think it is very, very slim in any workable application. You almost have to prove the intruder existed and that he was actually there that night to make this theory believable.
I see the point but it does narrow the field some, more likely than not if the person was familar with the house and the boys secret entry into it. The windows don't look covered where the entry occured blinds are visable on the other window but I can't tell if blinds are drawn up or missing on the window in question.

[Mary456]

There was moonlight enough to see in the garage.

There was no testimony about moonlight at all. In fact, Waddell and Walling said the garage was dark; they had to use their flashlights to scan it.

[Goody]

I see the point but it does narrow the field some, more likely than not if the person was familar with the house and the boys secret entry into it. The windows don't look covered where the entry occured blinds are visable on the other window but I can't tell if blinds are drawn up or missing on the window in question.
Well, if he was familiar with the boys' secret entry, then he would have known that all he had to do was pop the screen out. Why would he cut a screen he could just pop out? I mean, if a 5 year old and a 6 year old could figure that out, you would think a grown man could.

[cami]

[QUOTE=Goody][color=blue]
That being said, the window in question was closer to the back gate than I originally thought. Not sure what that means. I guess that it is just another detail to work into the puzzle of QUOTE]

I believe that has to do with the mulch under the window Goody. We know there was no mulch under the alleged entry/exit window but there was under the window beside it which was closest to the fence. So, the quickest route to the fence/gate was to run through that mulch and the gate or up and over the fence. No sign of any footsteps/blood in the mulch, on the gate or fence. Gate closed, a gate that dragged on the ground and was a tad difficult to open and close.

[Goody]

[QUOTE=Goody][color=blue]
That being said, the window in question was closer to the back gate than I originally thought. Not sure what that means. I guess that it is just another detail to work into the puzzle of QUOTE]

I believe that has to do with the mulch under the window Goody. We know there was no mulch under the alleged entry/exit window but there was under the window beside it which was closest to the fence. So, the quickest route to the fence/gate was to run through that mulch and the gate or up and over the fence. No sign of any footsteps/blood in the mulch, on the gate or fence. Gate closed, a gate that dragged on the ground and was a tad difficult to open and close.
That gate not only gives me a logical reason to disbelieve that anyone went thru it that night but it also shows both Darlie and Darin to be liars in their claims that Darin fixed it that evening so it wouldn't drag and be a problem for a fleeing intruder. It actually has a shoestring, I think, holding the latch on it...some feeble attempt of repair but it had been done long before that night. Amazing that Darin could do all that remodel work to the house then turned around and tried to fix the back gate with strings. LOL!

[christine2448]

I have been reading this case mostly, a post here and there, I was on the fence when I started reading about Darlie......I want so badly to believe she could not hurt her children like this........it has taken me FEREVER to get through these threads, and I'm still reading....you all are so smart! Thank you all for all the info and great posts!


This is what got me, I just read this today on the Bruises thread (now closed), it was posted by JeanaDP Actually, what they SHOULD have had to pry out of her hands is her children. Can you imagine just standing there staring down at your two dying children and NOT holding onto them for dear life?
That thought, that statement alone, did it for me, not forensics, not truths, not lies, Jeana's statement, just smacked me right in the face.... Darlie is guilty. IMO

[Goody]

I have been reading this case mostly, a post here and there, I was on the fence when I started reading about Darlie......I want so badly to believe she could not hurt her children like this........it has taken me FEREVER to get through these threads, and I'm still reading....you all are so smart! Thank you all for all the info and great posts!


This is what got me, I just read this today on the Bruises thread (now closed), it was posted by JeanaDP Actually, what they SHOULD have had to pry out of her hands is her children. Can you imagine just standing there staring down at your two dying children and NOT holding onto them for dear life?
That thought, that statement alone, did it for me, not forensics, not truths, not lies, Jeana's statement, just smacked me right in the face.... Darlie is guilty. IMO
Yep, Jeana has a way of telling it like it is. Mark Furhman said the same thing about another case, that usually cops have to pry the parents away from an injured or dead child. When they don't, so many times the parents are found to be guilty of causing the injury. I don't even understand that. I guess they just have to disassociate themselves to a point where they can stand back and be almost uneffected by what is going on.

[Jeana (DP)]

Yep, Jeana has a way of telling it like it is. Mark Furhman said the same thing about another case, that usually cops have to pry the parents away from an injured or dead child. When they don't, so many times the parents are found to be guilty of causing the injury. I don't even understand that. I guess they just have to disassociate themselves to a point where they can stand back and be almost uneffected by what is going on.


:D Thanks ya'll. I think its the "cookie jar syndrome." Don't get caught with your hands near the "deed."

[Valinda]

Yep, Jeana has a way of telling it like it is. Mark Furhman said the same thing about another case, that usually cops have to pry the parents away from an injured or dead child. When they don't, so many times the parents are found to be guilty of causing the injury. I don't even understand that. I guess they just have to disassociate themselves to a point where they can stand back and be almost uneffected by what is going on.
Many murderers seem to have that same ability.

[Goody]

Many murderers seem to have that same ability.
I think that is what I meant. LOL!

[Goody]

:D Thanks ya'll. I think its the "cookie jar syndrome." Don't get caught with your hands near the "deed."
Esp with blood up to your elbows!

[Valinda]

I think that is what I meant. LOL!You took that wrong...LOL

[Goody]

You took that wrong...LOL
I get ya. Many murderers have the ability to detach in order to commit the crime. Goody's a little slow on the uptake these days.

[Jodee]

One thing bothers be about this case. If Darlie was leaning over the kitchen sink cutting her throat, why was her necklace embedded in her throat? Seems to me if she were leaning the necklace would come away from her throat.

[cami]

One thing bothers be about this case. If Darlie was leaning over the kitchen sink cutting her throat, why was her necklace embedded in her throat? Seems to me if she were leaning the necklace would come away from her throat.

Maybe she pushed it into the wound when she was holding the towel against her neck to stop the blood.

[Goody]

One thing bothers be about this case. If Darlie was leaning over the kitchen sink cutting her throat, why was her necklace embedded in her throat? Seems to me if she were leaning the necklace would come away from her throat.
I doubt if she were leaning forward. Look at the cut. It angles downward. She was probably standing at the sink, but most likely threw her head back when she made the cut just to have more control. She may have thought the necklace would help keep the blade from going in too deeply and she was probably right but I think it still went deeper than she planned.

[ladygator]

I think Darlie is 100% guilty. Why she did it - we may never know.

On top of all the evidence that has been debated, on and off, between the pro and anti Darlie followers, one of the biggest pieces of evidence that tells me that she did do it, is the lack of evidence.

Darlie has led people to believe that she put up this struggle with a mythical intruder. She has bruises all over her body. Defensive slices to her hands. And multiple slashes on her upper body.

It gives you the impression that she put up one heck of a fight with someone.

That mythical intruder, the one who stabbed not one, but two of her boys, numerous times. The one, who should have had a good amount of blood all over his knife weilding hand. He comes from above her as she sleeps. He's trying to pin her down. She is fighting and trying to push him off of her. There's slapping, pushing, slicing, kicking, punching, hair is getting yanked,etc. (Never any yelling for Darin at this point)

And through out this whole ordeal, he never lost his balance, his bloody hand (even gloved) never touched the couch or anything else around the struggle scene.

Then, we are to believe that something all of the sudden, what? Scared him away? He had already killed 2 children. From the looks of Darlie, seems that he had the upper hand to just plunge that knife a couple of times into her gut and she'd be dead.

The lack of evidence is the evidence, for me.

The only thing I'm undecided on with this case is what, if anything, Darin had to do with it.

All, JMHO

[Jeana (DP)]

I think Darlie is 100% guilty. Why she did it - we may never know.

On top of all the evidence that has been debated, on and off, between the pro and anti Darlie followers, one of the biggest pieces of evidence that tells me that she did do it, is the lack of evidence.

Darlie has led people to believe that she put up this struggle with a mythical intruder. She has bruises all over her body. Defensive slices to her hands. And multiple slashes on her upper body.

It gives you the impression that she put up one heck of a fight with someone.

That mythical intruder, the one who stabbed not one, but two of her boys, numerous times. The one, who should have had a good amount of blood all over his knife weilding hand. He comes from above her as she sleeps. He's trying to pin her down. She is fighting and trying to push him off of her. There's slapping, pushing, slicing, kicking, punching, hair is getting yanked,etc. (Never any yelling for Darin at this point)

And through out this whole ordeal, he never lost his balance, his bloody hand (even gloved) never touched the couch or anything else around the struggle scene.

Then, we are to believe that something all of the sudden, what? Scared him away? He had already killed 2 children. From the looks of Darlie, seems that he had the upper hand to just plunge that knife a couple of times into her gut and she'd be dead.

The lack of evidence is the evidence, for me.

The only thing I'm undecided on with this case is what, if anything, Darin had to do with it.

All, JMHO



AMEN darlin!

[txsvicki]

One thing bothers be about this case. If Darlie was leaning over the kitchen sink cutting her throat, why was her necklace embedded in her throat? Seems to me if she were leaning the necklace would come away from her throat.

Does anyone know if the necklace was brought more into evidence at the trial, such as if Darlie normally left it on while sleeping and if the necklace was embedded in her neck in a way to suggest what position she was in when the throat was cut? Darlie had taken off all of her rings so I wonder why she didn't also take off her necklace when laying down. I suppose she would say she did that to wash dishes.

[ladygator]

Could not agree more. Darlie should have had multiple stabs, slices, pricks, etc on her forearms and hands, a couple thru her hands even, if she had been trying to fend off a knife wielding assailant. That doesn't even take into account the probability of how many times the assailant would have missed his target and hit other parts of her body as she twisted and struggled. She doesn't even have a bruise to her face or any small cuts.
I agree so much. And when the mythical intruder missed, what else do you think he would have stabbed? At the very least, the couch!! When I put myself into this struggle scenerio, things just don't add up. Some evidence of an intruder should have been present. :bang: And this is going by Darlie, herself. Not a crime lab or anyone on the Pros side. Darlie herself!!!!!! She is the evidence. She did a horrible job on setting herself up to be a victim.

[ladygator]

aaaahahahahahahahha! O, Dani, please, you can't qualify the knife. Any kind of knife was inappropriate, and it shows how insensitive Darin was to the situation much more so than Darlie. He is, after all, the one who put the knife there as a gift to his son. Amazing that he didn't make the connection but he didn't and now lives with the constant criticism of it.
OMG, this is something that I didn't know. That is sick. To seal your children in a coffin with a knife, the same kind of instrument that killed them!!!!!!!!!!:sick:

That is very, morbid!!!!!

[Goody]

I agree so much. And when the mythical intruder missed, what else do you think he would have stabbed? At the very least, the couch!! When I put myself into this struggle scenerio, things just don't add up. Some evidence of an intruder should have been present. :bang: And this is going by Darlie, herself. Not a crime lab or anyone on the Pros side. Darlie herself!!!!!! She is the evidence. She did a horrible job on setting herself up to be a victim.
Let's face it, it would be too painful to set oneself up as a typical victim. Too many knife wounds needed to pull it off.

[Goody]

OMG, this is something that I didn't know. That is sick. To seal your children in a coffin with a knife, the same kind of instrument that killed them!!!!!!!!!!:sick:

That is very, morbid!!!!!
Just shows how disconnected he was to what was going on around him, most pointedly the horrid suffering of his children.

[deanws]

Does anyone know if the necklace was brought more into evidence at the trial, such as if Darlie normally left it on while sleeping and if the necklace was embedded in her neck in a way to suggest what position she was in when the throat was cut? Darlie had taken off all of her rings so I wonder why she didn't also take off her necklace when laying down. I suppose she would say she did that to wash dishes.
I normally take off all my rings, bracelets and watch, and leave on my necklace and earrings. My rings drive me bonkers if I wear then when trying to sleep.

[southcitymom]

OMG, this is something that I didn't know. That is sick. To seal your children in a coffin with a knife, the same kind of instrument that killed them!!!!!!!!!!:sick:

That is very, morbid!!!!!
The knife in the coffin decision reminds me of a book I've read about the nature of human evil.

One of the case studies in this book was about this family - mother father, two teenaged sons. The oldest son committed suicide with a gun. The younger one started acting out and getting in trouble and was eventually seen by a psychiatrist for depression. In their first meeting, the psychiatrist was trying to get to know the remaining son and one of the questions he asked the son was, "So what did you get for Christmas this year?" The son said, "I wanted a tennis racket, but my parents gave me a gun." The psychiatrist was aghast, but it was worse than that. The Christmas following his brother's suicide, the parents of this child gave him the EXACT gun that his older brother had used to kill himself.

When the psychiatrist confronted the parents about this in a separate session, they were nonplussed. "We're just, simple working people," they said, "That was an expensive gun and we thought someone should have it...":banghead:

[cami]

The knife in the coffin decision reminds me of a book I've read about the nature of human evil.

One of the case studies in this book was about this family - mother father, two teenaged sons. The oldest son committed suicide with a gun. The younger one started acting out and getting in trouble and was eventually seen by a psychiatrist for depression. In their first meeting, the psychiatrist was trying to get to know the remaining son and one of the questions he asked the son was, "So what did you get for Christmas this year?" The son said, "I wanted a tennis racket, but my parents gave me a gun." The psychiatrist was aghast, but it was worse than that. The Christmas following his brother's suicide, the parents of this child gave him the EXACT gun that his older brother had used to kill himself.

When the psychiatrist confronted the parents about this in a separate session, they were nonplussed. "We're just, simple working people," they said, "That was an expensive gun and we thought someone should have it...":banghead:


OMG shaking my head in amazement...how callous.

[haypaula]

This case is fascinating and I am glad there is a new forum on it.

I think she did it... what about you? Looking forward to great discussion.

Hi Cass! :)

After reviewing the case and watching American Justice, I truly believe Darlie killed her sons.

LTNS! Great to see you!

[beesy]

I think Darlie is 100% guilty. Why she did it - we may never know.

On top of all the evidence that has been debated, on and off, between the pro and anti Darlie followers, one of the biggest pieces of evidence that tells me that she did do it, is the lack of evidence.

Darlie has led people to believe that she put up this struggle with a mythical intruder. She has bruises all over her body. Defensive slices to her hands. And multiple slashes on her upper body.

It gives you the impression that she put up one heck of a fight with someone.

That mythical intruder, the one who stabbed not one, but two of her boys, numerous times. The one, who should have had a good amount of blood all over his knife weilding hand. He comes from above her as she sleeps. He's trying to pin her down. She is fighting and trying to push him off of her. There's slapping, pushing, slicing, kicking, punching, hair is getting yanked,etc. (Never any yelling for Darin at this point)

And through out this whole ordeal, he never lost his balance, his bloody hand (even gloved) never touched the couch or anything else around the struggle scene.

Then, we are to believe that something all of the sudden, what? Scared him away? He had already killed 2 children. From the looks of Darlie, seems that he had the upper hand to just plunge that knife a couple of times into her gut and she'd be dead.

The lack of evidence is the evidence, for me.

The only thing I'm undecided on with this case is what, if anything, Darin had to do with it.

All, JMHO Right there is no evidence of an intruder, but there's also tons of evidence proving she is the killer.
I think the only time Darlie says she was fighting with an intruder is in her hypnosis story. Every other time she says Damon woke her up by touching her shoulder and saying "Mommy", that she looked up to see a man who in different stories is in different places in the room and my favorite description is a "blur of a man". I love it. Once she sees the man, she stands up, follows him through the kitchen, stops, turns her back on a strange man with a knife, hits the light, walks to the UR doorway, then back to pick up the knife. Then to the entryway to scream "Devon, Devon, Devon,"...sometimes Damon has actually gotten up and followed her. Yeah right.
So in all of those stories, the intruder is running from her or walking quickly, whatever he was doing. She did not scream for Darin. She did not grab Damon. She followed a strange man through the kitchen and turned her back to him. I am pretty sure the only thing true in her stories is that Damon and Devon were asleep on the floor.
The Darin angle is very complicated, but as far as the time line, I feel there is no way he was upstairs when Damon was attacked the 2nd time and during all the other stuff Darlie was doing. How much did he do? I'm not sure, but he did some of it. IMO

[beesy]

:D Thanks ya'll. I think its the "cookie jar syndrome." Don't get caught with your hands near the "deed." don't poop where ya eat!

[beesy]

Maybe she pushed it into the wound when she was holding the towel against her neck to stop the blood. Chris has a picture in MTJD of the necklace and it seems to have 2 nicks in it. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_12_10.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)

[beesy]

The knife in the coffin decision reminds me of a book I've read about the nature of human evil.

One of the case studies in this book was about this family - mother father, two teenaged sons. The oldest son committed suicide with a gun. The younger one started acting out and getting in trouble and was eventually seen by a psychiatrist for depression. In their first meeting, the psychiatrist was trying to get to know the remaining son and one of the questions he asked the son was, "So what did you get for Christmas this year?" The son said, "I wanted a tennis racket, but my parents gave me a gun." The psychiatrist was aghast, but it was worse than that. The Christmas following his brother's suicide, the parents of this child gave him the EXACT gun that his older brother had used to kill himself.

When the psychiatrist confronted the parents about this in a separate session, they were nonplussed. "We're just, simple working people," they said, "That was an expensive gun and we thought someone should have it...":banghead: It's called selling it people

[beesy]

Does anyone know if the necklace was brought more into evidence at the trial, such as if Darlie normally left it on while sleeping and if the necklace was embedded in her neck in a way to suggest what position she was in when the throat was cut? Darlie had taken off all of her rings so I wonder why she didn't also take off her necklace when laying down. I suppose she would say she did that to wash dishes. She had her jewelry out on the counter because she was trying to sell it.

[sharkeyes]

So in all of those stories, the intruder is running from her or walking quickly, whatever he was doing. She did not scream for Darin. She did not grab Damon. She followed a strange man through the kitchen and turned her back to him. I am pretty sure the only thing true in her stories is that Damon and Devon were asleep on the floor. The Darin angle is very complicated, but as far as the time line, I feel there is no way he was upstairs when Damon was attacked the 2nd time and during all the other stuff Darlie was doing. How much did he do? I'm not sure, but he did some of it. IMO
Exactly!:)

[michelle]

I thought the whole explanation of her "following the man" was very shady. I mean if my son grabbed at me and was crying in the middle of the night AND I seen a man, I would be screaming!!!!!:eek:

[StellaTravers]

More on the crack head theory, though Jeana covered it nicely. Someone amped up on crack would most like not have stopped an attack on Darlie. They would have kept going on the adrenaline rush of that crack fed emotion. This crime scene was too controlled. There were some defense wounds on Devon, but it definitely looks like whoever did this went for, what she thought would be a quick direct kill. I never could hold on to the two intruder theory anyway because it didn't make sense for two people to come in, not take anything, kill two children, leave the adult, leave a weapon with incriminating prints, and leave no trace of their presence.

[cami]

She had her jewelry out on the counter because she was trying to sell it.

I wonder how she managed to sleep with all those earrings in her ears!!! I can't even sleep with a pair of studs in.

[beesy]

I wonder how she managed to sleep with all those earrings in her ears!!! I can't even sleep with a pair of studs in. From pain, comes beautyhttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_62.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)

[deanws]

I wonder how she managed to sleep with all those earrings in her ears!!! I can't even sleep with a pair of studs in.I can't either Cami. My holes get swollen and hurt when I try to sleep in any kind of earrings

[Mary456]

I wonder how she managed to sleep with all those earrings in her ears!!! I can't even sleep with a pair of studs in.

Darlie never went to sleep that night...heck, we don't even know if she lay down on the couch before slitting the screen :crazy:

[beesy]

Darlie never went to sleep that night...heck, we don't even know if she lay down on the couch before slitting the screen :crazy: I think cami meant in general. She had so many earrings on, it would take her forever to get them out.
All she had to do was lay on that sofa and bleed some. That takes care of one piece of evidence aginst her right there.

[cami]

I think cami meant in general. She had so many earrings on, it would take her forever to get them out.
All she had to do was lay on that sofa and bleed some. That takes care of one piece of evidence aginst her right there.

Actually, I meant what Mary posted. She didn't go to bed that night, the earrings tell me that. No way would anyone sleep with that many pairs of earrings on. In my opinion anyway....

[Kitty5001]

How many pairs of earrings did she have on that night? I have my ears double pearced and I sleep in my diamond studs in the 2nd holes and small hoops in the first holes- they are my 'standards' so unless I have an oufit that I have colored earrings for I wear them each day and I sleep in them every night. They don't bother me at all -I don't even notice they are on. I also sleep in my watch and rings as well. Just a thought.

[beesy]

Actually, I meant what Mary posted. She didn't go to bed that night, the earrings tell me that. No way would anyone sleep with that many pairs of earrings on. In my opinion anyway.... Oh, is that what you meant? Sorry, Mary:blushing:

[beesy]

How many pairs of earrings did she have on that night? I have my ears double pearced and I sleep in my diamond studs in the 2nd holes and small hoops in the first holes- they are my 'standards' so unless I have an oufit that I have colored earrings for I wear them each day and I sleep in them every night. They don't bother me at all -I don't even notice they are on. I also sleep in my watch and rings as well. Just a thought. She had 3 pairs of earrings on. Two sets of studs and a pair of small hoops. I leave my studs in all the time too, unless like you, I am dressed up or whatever. I sleep in all my rings(9). and a bracelet on each arm. Don't most people at least sleep with their wedding rings on?

[michelle]

I have always slept with mine in unless they are with a specific outfit.

[beesy]

I have always slept with mine in unless they are with a specific outfit. Mary and cami are ancient and you know how old people can behttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_8_138.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)

[Jeana (DP)]

She had 3 pairs of earrings on. Two sets of studs and a pair of small hoops. I leave my studs in all the time too, unless like you, I am dressed up or whatever. I sleep in all my rings(9). and a bracelet on each arm. Don't most people at least sleep with their wedding rings on?


I sleep with my wedding ring and one other ring and that's it. I can't stand to sleep in anything else. Not only that, but its not good for your jewelery. Besides, I'd just have to take it off in the morning before I shower and change, so why bother?

[beesy]

I sleep with my wedding ring and one other ring and that's it. I can't stand to sleep in anything else. Not only that, but its not good for your jewelery. Besides, I'd just have to take it off in the morning before I shower and change, so why bother? I shower with my jewelry on, swim with it on, well I never take it off. Why is it bad for your jewelry? Gold can't tarnish. And why has this thread turned into a jewelry discussion?

[Jimthecarpetguy]

I shower with my jewelry on, swim with it on, well I never take it off. Why is it bad for your jewelry? Gold can't tarnish. And why has this thread turned into a jewelry discussion?
Yeah,what she said!

[Jeana (DP)]

I shower with my jewelry on, swim with it on, well I never take it off. Why is it bad for your jewelry? Gold can't tarnish. And why has this thread turned into a jewelry discussion?


Stones get loose when you abuse the setting.

[beesy]

Yeah,what she said! You mean you're not enjoying our chick conversation?

[cami]

Mary and cami are ancient and you know how old people can behttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_8_138.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS)

LOL boy she's cruisin' isn't she.

Actually due my sensitivities I find it hard to wear jewellery anyway. I wear two pairs of earrings,a gold cross, a watch and now my mother's diamond ring she left me.

And make up! forget it...blush and lipstick only. How I long to wear mascara aaahahahahahahaha

[Goody]

LOL boy she's cruisin' isn't she.

Actually due my sensitivities I find it hard to wear jewellery anyway. I wear two pairs of earrings,a gold cross, a watch and now my mother's diamond ring she left me.

And make up! forget it...blush and lipstick only. How I long to wear mascara aaahahahahahahaha
Well, the jewelry on or off doesn't really prove anything one way or the other because some women sleep with it on and some don't. Without someone to tell us what Darlie's habits were, it becomes almost moot. Jewelry piled up on a counter that a burglar passes at least twice and somehow misses is bit more telling in a supportive evidence way. In short, jewelry taken supports her story and jewelry left behiind supports the state's theory that there was no intruder.

[Becba]

Well, the jewelry on or off doesn't really prove anything one way or the other because some women sleep with it on and some don't. Without someone to tell us what Darlie's habits were, it becomes almost moot. Jewelry piled up on a counter that a burglar passes at least twice and somehow misses is bit more telling in a supportive evidence way. In short, jewelry taken supports her story and jewelry left behiind supports the state's theory that there was no intruder.
The idea of a burglary gone wrong just doesn't fly. It would have to be someone who came to kill specifically. And they would not have fled the house due to the supposed fight Darlie put up. They would have killed her too. And possibly stuck around to kill Darin also.
And if a person comes in the home with intent to kill they bring their own weapon. They don't hope to find one in the house.

[Moire]

The idea of a burglary gone wrong just doesn't fly. It would have to be someone who came to kill specifically. And they would not have fled the house due to the supposed fight Darlie put up. They would have killed her too. And possibly stuck around to kill Darin also.
And if a person comes in the home with intent to kill they bring their own weapon. They don't hope to find one in the house.

Hello Becba. This is my first post here but I have been reading on this forum for a while. Just wanted to kind of introduce myself before posting. I'm interested in many of the forums here and don't know an awful lot about most of them but I'm trying to learn. I make it a habit to read for a good while before posting and I know that there are quite a few that post here a lot and I want to say hello to everyone.
But, to this, I would say that it does appear to me that someone who is a burglar would be entering the house with burglary on his mind and not murder. So if there was a burglury gone wrong and it resulted in these awful murders then I think there is something to the statement that the burglur/murderer (if he existed), would want to run away from the scene quickly. Since it would have gotten out of hand, out of his comfort zone. It's JMO and not a very knowledgeble one at that.

[Becba]

Hi Moire. Nice to meet ya.

The reasons I don't think it was a burglary are, first the burglar might expect everyone to be in bed but he found Darlie and the boys in the living room. So then instead of leaving he would have had to found the knife in the kitchen and stabbed the boys. And why stab the boys first when the adult in the room is the main threat? Why not just leave? Why even stick around to need to stab anyone? He didn't take anything. Wouldn't it be logical for him to have attempted to steal something before deciding to find a knife and kill? And he stabs the children several times before attacking Darlie. That would make a lot of noise and waste time. Darlie says she awoke with him over her attacking her. That is not someone trying to steal. That is someone who wants to harm. I don't think a person that is crazed enough to stab 2 kids and attack a woman is going to be chased off by the woman. She said he dropped the knife when he ran off. He obviously had the upper hand and was armed. But he decides to run away all of a sudden. Not taking anything. Burglary doesn't seem to be a motive to me.

[philamena]

This was no burglary gone wrong. For one thing burglars usually don't pass up a handfull of gold and diamond rings laying on a counter.:doh: Even in a burglary gone bad a burglar doesn't savedgely stab children to death and allow an adult in the room to live...an adult who could identify them. Another point---burglars leave evidence. There was no evidence of an intruder in this case. The murders were comitted by Darlie, imo.