Poll: Did Darlie Routier murder her children?

[Casshew]

This case is fascinating and I am glad there is a new forum on it.

I think she did it... what about you? Looking forward to great discussion.

[WindChime]

I believe that Darlie is guilty also and I also believe that Darin has something to do with the murder of their 2 precious boys also. I do believe that she does deserve a new trial due to the first court reporter errors so that the NG'S can't say that justice was denied for Darlie.

[cami]

I believe that Darlie is guilty also and I also believe that Darin has something to do with the murder of their 2 precious boys also. I do believe that she does deserve a new trial due to the first court reporter errors so that the NG'S can't say that justice was denied for Darlie.

Ew, she's already lost that appeal so no new trial due to the transcript errors.

[lisag]

I think she is as guilty as sin !!!
She should be punished to the fullest... those poor boys had no chance.

[WindChime]

:-) Thank you for that info see I knew I was way behind lol Don't get me wrong I believe she is 110% guilty of murdering her precious son's and I also believe Darin played a part in their murders also I just wonder if she will crack when she has her death warrent signed as to the date and time that she will be put to death and spill the beans on Darin.

[AuntieKaren]

Yes, Darlie is guilty. I also think the Aisenbergs had something to do with Sabrina's disappearance. (Sorry--subject change.)
Karen

[cami]

:-) Thank you for that info see I knew I was way behind lol Don't get me wrong I believe she is 110% guilty of murdering her precious son's and I also believe Darin played a part in their murders also I just wonder if she will crack when she has her death warrent signed as to the date and time that she will be put to death and spill the beans on Darin.

Yeah she just lost another appeal so now she has her Federal appeals I believe. A poster on ezboards explained it all on the appeals. We are all starting to wonder now if she is going to implicate Darin when she gets near the needle given what's happened lately. I think Darin wants a divorce and to move on with Drake.

[lisag]

Yes, Darlie is guilty. I also think the Aisenbergs had something to do with Sabrina's disappearance. (Sorry--subject change.)
Karen


I agree!!

[Pepper]

I haven't followed this case like I have the Peterson case, but based on what I have seen on TV, I have reasonable doubt, and would therefore vote NG if I were on the jury. (OT, same with Aisenbergs and Ramseys).

[dasgal]

What types of things bother you, Pepper?

[Pepper]

What types of things bother you, Pepper?I rememer seeing photos of Darlie's bruises and injuries, which seemed too severe to be self-inflicted. I remember hearing that these photos were not shown to the jury, but I don't know why. I heard one or more jurors saying that if they had seen the photos, they would have voted NG. Then there was also something about a bloody sock being found outside, a ways away from the house.

Also, there is lack of motive. Just like in the Ramsey and Aisenberg cases, I don't see a motive when there is still one or more children of the family uninjured. It's not like in the Susan Smith case where she killed both of her children. In each of these 3 cases there are still children left in the family, that weren't targets of the crime.

Like I said, I haven't followed all the information on this case carefully, but based on what I have seen and heard, I think there is reasonable doubt.

[TressaRing28]

I believe that Darlie is guilty also and I also believe that Darin has something to do with the murder of their 2 precious boys also. I do believe that she does deserve a new trial due to the first court reporter errors so that the NG'S can't say that justice was denied for Darlie.



I do agree that darin must have been involved some how... How could he not hear the murder going on.

Tressa

[Jeana (DP)]

I rememer seeing photos of Darlie's bruises and injuries, which seemed too severe to be self-inflicted. I remember hearing that these photos were not shown to the jury, but I don't know why. I heard one or more jurors saying that if they had seen the photos, they would have voted NG. Then there was also something about a bloody sock being found outside, a ways away from the house.

Also, there is lack of motive. Just like in the Ramsey and Aisenberg cases, I don't see a motive when there is still one or more children of the family uninjured. It's not like in the Susan Smith case where she killed both of her children. In each of these 3 cases there are still children left in the family, that weren't targets of the crime.

Like I said, I haven't followed all the information on this case carefully, but based on what I have seen and heard, I think there is reasonable doubt.

Some of us believe that the bruises were NOT self-inflected. As stated on another thread, the photographs of the bruising WERE introduced during the trial.

As for "motive," can you tell us what would suffice as a motive to you? The state is not required to prove a motive.

[Mary456]

"I think she did it... what about you? Looking forward to great discussion."

Why am I still up? Oh yeah, something about a sunrise. It's all coming back...

Cass, I have to tell you that your posts on the Scott Peterson forum made my day, every day. I almost carried my 85 year old Mom up the stairs so she could see Dorothy. What a hoot!

[WindChime]

Welcome to the Darlie Routier forum. Mary yes I believe Darlie murdered her two precious boys also but I also believe that her husband Darin had something to do with it also.

[Casshew]

Cass, I have to tell you that your posts on the Scott Peterson forum made my day, every day.
Thank you very much.. you just made my day!

[Rachael]

I think she did it. I don't see why anyone else would have motive to kill her kids. I read a book about it a few years back.

[4baddogs]

I've been reading the transcripts here for 2 days straight and my eyes are killing me.

Anyway, I go back and forth with this one. I read things and think she did it and then I read things and think she didn't do it. The bruises on her arms and the cut to her neck being so close to her carotid artery really have me questioning things. A couple of other items too, like the sock in the alley. But then there is the knife with the screen material on it and the legal documents that were in the room with the kids, etc., so I'm always on the fence here. And I hate that because I'm a very black or white person. I knew Scott killed Laci, OJ killed Nicole and Ron, and I believe the Ramsey's killed Jon Benet but this case keeps me going back and forth.

If Darin was involved, why hasn't Darlie said that? Or has she and I missed it?

[Jeana (DP)]

Hi and welcome to Websleuths 4baddogs (love that name!!). My opinion about the Darlie/Darin pack is that they both have enough on the other that neither of them will spill what they know for fear the other one will spill what they know.

We know that Darin had been thinking about some illegal insurance fraud scheme that he may or may not have done previously. We also know that he failed the lie detector tests. While the results of Darlie's tests have not been made public, I pretty much think if she had passed, we'd have heard about it before now.

We also know that they both committed perjury on the stand when they claimed that their finances and their marriage were "healthy." They were up to their eyeballs in debt, Darin was bringing in less than ever before and Darlie was stuck at home with three boys (NOT an easy thing to do). We know that they had an argument that night that led to Darlie asking Darin for a separation. We have no way of knowing whether this was a typical thing for Darlie to do since she and Darin both lied on the witness stand. It would have been a good time to say they did it all the time, so we don't put as much emphasis on it, but who am I to tell them what to do?

Anyway, we know that Darin was turned down for the $5,000 loan days before the murders. We also know that if you're not in a financial black hole, this amount of money should have been no problem for them to obtain.

We know that one car and the boat were also broken down. Apparently no money to pay for them either.

Its long been my opinion that we will hear from Darin one day. Now that it looks like Darlie's getting desperate enough to at least be hinting that she's ready to throw him under the bus, he may talk to save his neck. After all, he's already said he wants to help her, but not if it means he has to change places with her. What a man! :confused:

[Goody]

Wow! I get to call you Jeana here instead of DP. That will take some getting used to.

Welp, I finally made it. :)

Here's a thought for you. Not my original though. Picked it up at another forum. What if Darin was just returning from dumping the sock when Waddell pulled up and he had to think of something real quick about why he was outside, so he started yelling that his wife and kids had been stabbed, waking up Gorsuch across the street. If this is probable, then maybe there is no blood going out the back and the gate was closed because no one ever went that way. Do you know if he could have exited via the front door and avoided the back yard altogether to make the sock run?

[Dani_T]

Here's a thought for you. Not my original though. Picked it up at another forum. What if Darin was just returning from dumping the sock when Waddell pulled up and he had to think of something real quick about why he was outside, so he started yelling that his wife and kids had been stabbed, waking up Gorsuch across the street. If this is probable, then maybe there is no blood going out the back and the gate was closed because no one ever went that way. Do you know if he could have exited via the front door and avoided the back yard altogether to make the sock run?

Hey Goody ;)

Not sure that there would have been time for him to do that when you look at the 911 call. According to the transcript (which we all know is no perfect of course) his longest silence before Waddell arrives was just a bit longer than 40 seconds and then we hear him again in the house before Waddell arrives anyway. I'm not even sure he had time to run upstairs, get semi dressed, check Drake and get back downstairs in that time period (although there is, of course, other reasons why I don't believe the running upstairs story anyway) :)

[Mary456]

"What if Darin was just returning from dumping the sock when Waddell pulled up and he had to think of something real quick about why he was outside"

That won't work unless you believe that Waddell and Gorsuch were lying. Both of them said Darin ran out the front door and met Waddell by the fountain. Not trying to rain on your parade, Goody. It's just a thought.

[cami]

Hey Goody ;)

Not sure that there would have been time for him to do that when you look at the 911 call. According to the transcript (which we all know is no perfect of course) his longest silence before Waddell arrives was just a bit longer than 40 seconds and then we hear him again in the house before Waddell arrives anyway. I'm not even sure he had time to run upstairs, get semi dressed, check Drake and get back downstairs in that time period (although there is, of course, other reasons why I don't believe the running upstairs story anyway) :)


Goody, you made it!!! Welcome

[Jeana (DP)]

Wow! I get to call you Jeana here instead of DP. That will take some getting used to.

Welp, I finally made it. :)

Here's a thought for you. Not my original though. Picked it up at another forum. What if Darin was just returning from dumping the sock when Waddell pulled up and he had to think of something real quick about why he was outside, so he started yelling that his wife and kids had been stabbed, waking up Gorsuch across the street. If this is probable, then maybe there is no blood going out the back and the gate was closed because no one ever went that way. Do you know if he could have exited via the front door and avoided the back yard altogether to make the sock run?


It was either that name or "TheOneAndOnlyDP"!!!!! It wouldn't take just two letters!! Anyway, glad you're here!!! Let's get to sleuthing!!

[Shamrock]

Darlie is 100% innocent. I have followed this case very closely from Day One. I believe Darin had something to do with it. After he admitted to speaking with people just THREE DAYS before the killings about hiring someone to burglarize the house for the insurance money, that sent up a huge red flag for me.

[Jeana (DP)]

Darlie is 100% innocent. I have followed this case very closely from Day One. I believe Darin had something to do with it. After he admitted to speaking with people just THREE DAYS before the killings about hiring someone to burglarize the house for the insurance money, that sent up a huge red flag for me.


He Shamrock and welcome to the forum. I look forward to hearing more about your theory!!

[dasgal]

Hi Shamrock. What makes you believe in her innocence?

[lisafremont]

Darlie is 100% innocent. I have followed this case very closely from Day One. I believe Darin had something to do with it...

Shamrock, are you saying that Darin attacked the boys and Darlie? If that is so, it would be reasonable to infer that Darlie knows that he was the assailant. Why would she take the rap for him if she were "100% innocent"? (Is that anything like "stone cold innocent", btw?)

[cami]

Darlie is 100% innocent. I have followed this case very closely from Day One. I believe Darin had something to do with it. After he admitted to speaking with people just THREE DAYS before the killings about hiring someone to burglarize the house for the insurance money, that sent up a huge red flag for me.

Wonder why nothing was stolen during this crime. Money, credit cards and gold jewellery lying right there for the thieves to take but they chose to take the lives of two little boys and nothing else.

His father-in-law "remembers" two years after the crime that Darin had asked him if he knew someone who could burglarize the house for the insurance money. Darin says nothing to the cops and investigators at the time of the murders and Darlie's attack about his alleged burglary scheme!

Darin is lying and so is Darlie. There was no burglary scheme. Darlie is guilty. My opinion only.

[Jeana (DP)]

Shamrock, are you saying that Darin attacked the boys and Darlie? If that is so, it would be reasonable to infer that Darlie knows that he was the assailant. Why would she take the rap for him if she were "100% innocent"? (Is that anything like "stone cold innocent", btw?)


If Darlie is 100% innocent, then it shouldn't have been any problem for her to pass a lie detector test. She did not. She was also given regression therapy, the results of which haven't been made public. Don't you think that Darlie's supporters, who have absolutely no problem creating media attention for Darlie, would be screaming about the results from the rooftops (if the supported their claims of innocence)?

Its very easy to say you believe she's innocent. Its another thing to answer to all of the things that point to her guilt. So far, I haven't seen you (or anyone else) do that!!

[Ike]

I do not know a lot about this case but from what I've heard and read, I am 98% sure that Darlie is guilty and about 2% unsure.

Am I correct in thinking that I heard or read somewhere that the kitchen knife is the one that was used to cut the screen door? If so, that would be the huge clincher for me in believing Darlie's guilt.

[Jeana (DP)]

I do not know a lot about this case but from what I've heard and read, I am 98% sure that Darlie is guilty and about 2% unsure.

Am I correct in thinking that I heard or read somewhere that the kitchen knife is the one that was used to cut the screen door? If so, that would be the huge clincher for me in believing Darlie's guilt.

Yes, one of the knives in the butcher's block was used to cut the screen and another to murder the boys.

[Ike]

Yes, one of the knives in the butcher's block was used to cut the screen and another to murder the boys.

So if the screen door was the point of entry, then how is it reasonable to conclude that an intruder did this? He/She would have had to already be in the house to have gotten the knife and if they were already in the house, there would be no reason to have to cut the screen. Seems pretty cut and dry to me, unless I am confusing my facts.

[Jeana (DP)]

So if the screen door was the point of entry, then how is it reasonable to conclude that an intruder did this? He/She would have had to already be in the house to have gotten the knife and if they were already in the house, there would be no reason to have to cut the screen. Seems pretty cut and dry to me, unless I am confusing my facts.

No, you've got it right. The "intruder(s) also left that way, then they got into the backyard after being chased out of the house and opened a broken gate by lifting it up off the ground and pushing on it and THEN THEY CLOSED IT BEHIND THEM. :liar: :liar: :liar: :liar:

[Dani_T]

So if the screen door was the point of entry, then how is it reasonable to conclude that an intruder did this? He/She would have had to already be in the house to have gotten the knife and if they were already in the house, there would be no reason to have to cut the screen. Seems pretty cut and dry to me, unless I am confusing my facts.

This is the smoking gun for me. However you would be absolutely amazed at the way supporters try to explain this.

Basically there were two microscopic pieces of evidence (fibre glass rod and pigmented rubber debris) found on the bread knife from the block (not the same knife as murder weapon) that were microscopically identical to what was created when you use that same knife to cut the screen.

However, supporters will argue
1) Nobody would use a bread knife to cut a screen- they would use a non-serrated blade (which to me is a nonsensical argument since a bread knife acts like a saw which to me would seem perfect for cutting a screen)
2) Microscopically identical is not good enough and they want tests on the actual make-up of the material ( tests which were attempted prior to trial but failed because there was no enough material) to prove that these two independent pieces of forensic evidence which are identical to the screen evidence just happened to end up on that one knife right next to each other. Some theories go that Darin was using the bread knife to hack away at a computer motherboard or/and Darlie used it to cut through packaging tape :eek:
3) The guy who fingerprinted the window (but who does not testify at all to fingerprinting the knife) picked up these two independent pieces of evidence from the screen and then after a few hours of continuous use the brush (which again we have no evidence was ever used on that knife) just happened to deposit both pieces of evidence on the same bread knife.

To me this is an absolute clincher and yet I remain amazed at the way others try and explain it away. Sometimes I want to :laugh:. Other times I just want to :banghead: or even :slap:

[cami]

This is the smoking gun for me. However you would be absolutely amazed at the way supporters try to explain this.

Basically there were two microscopic pieces of evidence (fibre glass rod and pigmented rubber debris) found on the bread knife from the block (not the same knife as murder weapon) that were microscopically identical to what was created when you use that same knife to cut the screen.

However, supporters will argue
1) Nobody would use a bread knife to cut a screen- they would use a non-serrated blade (which to me is a nonsensical argument since a bread knife acts like a saw which to me would seem perfect for cutting a screen)
2) Microscopically identical is not good enough and they want tests on the actual make-up of the material ( tests which were attempted prior to trial but failed because there was no enough material) to prove that these two independent pieces of forensic evidence which are identical to the screen evidence just happened to end up on that one knife right next to each other. Some theories go that Darin was using the bread knife to hack away at a computer motherboard or/and Darlie used it to cut through packaging tape :eek:
3) The guy who fingerprinted the window (but who does not testify at all to fingerprinting the knife) picked up these two independent pieces of evidence from the screen and then after a few hours of continuous use the brush (which again we have no evidence was ever used on that knife) just happened to deposit both pieces of evidence on the same bread knife.

To me this is an absolute clincher and yet I remain amazed at the way others try and explain it away. Sometimes I want to :laugh:. Other times I just want to :banghead: or even :slap:

So typical of the supporters eh Dani. One who lost total crediblity I believe is the refusal to believe that Darlie says "threw the knife down" in the 911 call. That way he/she/they can just ignore that lack of cast-off blood or any blood that points to the knife being dropped or thrown down by the intruder. I was shocked to say the least. That's how they do it, just refuse to admit she says it even though you can hear it plain as day.

[Dani_T]

So typical of the supporters eh Dani. One who lost total crediblity I believe is the refusal to believe that Darlie says "threw the knife down" in the 911 call. That way he/she/they can just ignore that lack of cast-off blood or any blood that points to the knife being dropped or thrown down by the intruder. I was shocked to say the least. That's how they do it, just refuse to admit she says it even though you can hear it plain as day.

Oh... do you mean "ree in the pee" from Jeff? I had some good long laughs over that one.

But yes, that's what some supporters do I guess- simply ignore evidence or facts. Another example is the conclusion that Darlie simply MUST have gone in the U-room since that blood is there despite her claims she didn't.

[annie mae]

Did Darlie ever take a lie-detector test? Just wondering, I know very little of this case but I am interested as to why so many people think she is guiilty? The evidence pointing to her guilt is that bad huh? Blessing to All

[Jeana (DP)]

Did Darlie ever take a lie-detector test? Just wondering, I know very little of this case but I am interested as to why so many people think she is guiilty? The evidence pointing to her guilt is that bad huh? Blessing to All


She took a lie detector test and she had regression therapy (I believe hypnosis). The results of both of these tests remain a secret. That, in and of itself, speaks volumes to me!!! Had she passed, I'm sure they'd be screaming it from the rooftops!!!

The evidence pointing to her guilt is overwhelming. She's lost several appeals already.

[annie mae]

Absolutely incrediable! If I were innocent why would I want my "tests" to remain private? and stay in the hell-hole she is presently calling home, case closed for me. And to think she actually injured herself? what is up with that. And, I am not so sure her husband dose not know the truth, how could he not.

[Jeana (DP)]

Absolutely incrediable! If I were innocent why would I want my "tests" to remain private? and stay in the hell-hole she is presently calling home, case closed for me. And to think she actually injured herself? what is up with that. And, I am not so sure her husband dose not know the truth, how could he not.


He also failed at least two lie detector tests. So, he's definately not telling the truth about something. He's said that he wants to help her, but not if it means he'll have to change places with her!! LOL I think that he knows exactly what happened that night. I was told by Darlie's mother that she asked for a separation that night and they fought. Then she (Darlie's mother) called me a liar for years and denied it. Recently, Darin swore in an affidavit that they did indeed fight that night and she asked for a separation. My feeling is that she's staying quiet because he knows enough to be sure not only to seal her fate, but could cost all of her support system that she enjoys today. He stays quiet because she knows enough to have him put in prison. If they both decide to talk, I'll be in the front row for that show!!

[Dani_T]

Darlie's hypnosis report is available at www.justicefordarlie.net (or as it has been dubbed 'Just Darlie'!). I'm not sure whether it is complete or not- but it gives you some indication of what happened. Unfortunately the majority of it is spent on everything EXCEPT what Darlie said that night and the types of questions she was asked. Interestingly enough at the end of the report is a mention of a good likelyhood of further regression sessions... which we have never heard about. So why weren't there more? Or were there more and we just haven't been privy to the details (and I wonder why THAT would be the case ;) )

[annie mae]

:) Greetings. I would like to say I am happy that I found Websleuths and today got caught-up in looking at all the Great Pic's people have posted, Christmas especially. When I ran across the post about Sabrina I wondered, what did happen to that case? You never hear anything and what a story, the baby just "poofed"? Also I looked at Darlie's web-site and those pictures of her looks like she is posing for future men in her life, whatever:rolleyes: Anyway, I am wishing you ALL a very Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Also praying for Peace for ALL the BOY's overthere:)

[WindChime]

Welcome Annie Mae Merry Christmas to you also. If I'm thinking of the came missing Sabrina if I'm not mistaken last year they thought that they had found Sabrina in a midwestern state Ill I think but the DNA proved that the child wasn't Sabrina her family moved from Florida to Maryland or NJ.

[annie mae]

Thank you so much for your reply. I got sooo excited about posting "ALL" I wanted to ask, I put 2 questions in one message, Sabrina not belonging, sorry but appreciate your answer. I DO remember now hoping that Sabrina was found, did not happen, sad. Still is a strange case, parents were strange also. Pray for Peace and Blessings to All

[Candlelight]

My choice, sometimes, which is not listed is-
I think it's more possible that her husband, Darin, stabbed Darlie within an inch of her life as she lay sleeping and killed his two older sons ( the ones with life insurance policies). Slash, slash, stab, stab, stab, stab.

Darile supposed to be dead, the boys: 1 dead, 1 dying.

She was small, the boys were small. They struggled, there was blood everywhere in the living room.

3 were supposed to die, only 2 did.

Why did the smallest and most defenseless member of the family live without a hair on his head being touched? No life insurance? Because he was sleeping upstairs beside the murderer, so Darlie downstairs did it would be more difficult to disprove? I wonder about all of this and more. I'm not accusing Darin, but I think this was the type of rage and physical violence which is common with men who kill. I've been wanting to ask questions and discuss this case with someone for a long time, since I saw her on some TV documentaries, but I didn't know where to go, because it is an old case and it is considered to be solved.

These are just my thoughts after reading court documents and seeing her on TV. I am NOT a Darlie supporter anywhere and I know that some of those people have been really bad to other posters in the past. I am undecided but I have a hard time with the verdict of this case more than any other prominent cases except OJ. I've been afraid to say anything because most women, especially, feel really strongly against her. I'm a woman and I did too.

I thought she was guilty as sin and I wanted her to suffer for what she did until I read more about the case and saw her interviewed on TV a couple of years ago. What I saw was that the police wanted to close the case in a hurry, and they chose the weakest live victim as their suspect, it seems to me. They used part of the birthday gravesite service against Darlie without showing all of it. What they did show shows Darlie to be immature and dumb, but a killer?

I know mothers kill. Usually they are insane, I think, and it's obvious when they are, like the Yates woman. I think Susan Smith may have been insane at the moment she decided to kill herself and her sons. But she got out of the car and left her boys inside the car to die. I'm not sure that makes her sane again, but I think she had enough incest and childhood horrors to cause her to have psyciatric problems like temporary insanity. I think she did start to kill them all, but chickened out. Her sense of guilt was obvious on TV, so she knew she did wrong. I don't see any of that with Darlie on TV. The court system may not think Andrea Yates is or was insane, but I do, not that what I think matters.

I think Darlie is dumb, maybe not as dumb as she used to be, but not the smartest person while on trial and before that. I think both the other possible murderer, most people in LE and the prosecution used her naive nature and pinned the crime on her because it "fit the times" and because she wasn't smart at all at that time about things related to our justice system. I doubt she had ever even voted before or been inside a courtroom until she was charged with murder.

I can see myself in this situation, unless there are a lot of things I don't know about the crime, and I would believe that if I was innocent, the jury would believe me and find me not guilty. I think I'm more with it than Darlie was, but I would tell what I remembered as I grieved and hurt physically. Would it be enough, I wonder? Or too much? If she lied, I can't see the lies. I see confusion, pain, extreme stress from the death of her children and her injuries, but not lies, and maybe not guilt.

I honestly don't think she realized who she struggled with and who almost killed her at the time, nor would she probably have emotionally been able to believe that Darin may have killed their children and sliced her throat open at that time. She was very immature, and easily led. The police took advantage of her confusion, physical and mental trauma.

She was convicted more on her and Darin's lame testimony than anything else, it seems.. Hers was mainly " I don't remember" which I think is true. He was arrogant about their money and their house and lifestyle and lied about their marriage being happy. Later, he has been proven to want illegal acts committed for money ( arson or theft for insurance money, I don't recall which).
I don't think she had adequate legal representation or the photos of her defensive wounds would have been shown in court. The prosecution had them and the defense had the right to discovery.. apparently they either didn't see them, or didn't understand what they were looking at. Bruises and cuts on the backs of her forearms and hands- not caused by her. She was in ICU, she couldn't have made the cuts and bruises in sight of the hospital staff and she was NOT smart enough about crime to have done it the night of the murders or prior. The police chose her as the guilty parent because of the unusual phenomen of mothers killing their children during that time period ( Susan Smith). I think she probably had/has PTSD from being a victim and hearing the screams of her dying chidren and knowing that she was stabbed too. Maybe she was also taking medication or using drugs which caused her to be in a haze. I don't know what any drug tests showed, but I did read that there was pot in their house. I think bits and pieces of what happened may have come back to her. I don't think this is unusual considering how physically and emotionally traumatizing the attacks were.

No woman did this, IMO, regardless of her name, race or location.
It fits the pattern of a man in a blind rage perfectly. There's also the slim chance that Darin hired someone to do it but I think it was a crime of passion, not premeditated. The children were stabbed so many times and so deeply. I also read that Darlie almost died due to where her throat was cut. She wasn't smart enough to know where to cut and where not to cut or how deeply, nor are most of us. Cutting a throat is the universal message to " shut the person up".

Is there any possibility that Darin, big and strong and apparently needing money, did this and let the police pin it on her or helped them in subtle ways come to the conclusion that it was petite, naive Darlie? Or is the right person on death row? I don't know.
I'm sorry this is long. I've wondered about her almost every day since she was on 48 Hours and another show. thanks.

[annie mae]

I enjoyed reading your message and I think there is merit in what you say. I was totally convinced that Darlie did the deed but now I have a "doubt". In my previous messages I have held the verdict as guilty but now I am not sure. I feel Darlie's police case investigation was a sham. I just wonder if we will EVER know the real truth?, I doubt it. But, one thing I am now believing is that Darlie's husband was involved some way. We all know that prison is not a place to live for an amount of time, I shudder to think about it, yuk! So, why, if Darlie did not kill her children, would she want to spend her life behind bars, I don't understand? Is she afraid of Mr. Darlie? Peace and Blessings for us All, annie mae:confused:

[Dani_T]

Hi all,

I feel Darlie's police case investigation was a sham.
A lot of people feel this way but I'm not sure why. Could you perhaps give some examples why you think the investigation was a sham?

I think it's more possible that her husband, Darin, stabbed Darlie within an inch of her life as she lay sleeping and killed his two older sons ( the ones with life insurance policies). Slash, slash, stab, stab, stab, stab.

I agree that Darin is a bit of an enigma in this case. I'm not too sure what I think about his level of involvement. However, I am pretty well convinced that if he had any knife in his hand that night then so did Darlie. There is just no evidence which points to Darin. According to Darlie's vol. statement and testimony there is no way it could have been him.

Darlie claims the intruder just walked away through the kitchen, dropping the knife in the U-room and exiting the garage. If Darin was the intruder why would he do that?? There would have been NO reason for him to exit the house at all, let along exit it through the garage. And how (and why) did Darin then get back into the house, and upstairs and then meet Darlie at the bottom of the stairs less than 1-2 mins later? Why, if Darin was determined to kill his kids and wife did he walk away leaving two of his targets alive?? The intruder must have known someone in that room was alive (which is a problem for an intruder theory) because Damon was speaking according to Darlie, Darlie followed him and then turned on the light. So if it was Darin, then why did he leave her alive?


In terms of the police investigation - the myth perpetrated by Darlie's supporters is that the police decided to pin it on her from the get go. Frankly I find that insulting on behalf of the men and women who had to walk into that house and see Devon's dead body lying on the ground, who had to wade through the blood and examine the horrific murder scene. These are men and women who have committed their lives to bringing about justice... and yet Darlie and her supporters would have us believe that they all conspired to put an innocent, victimised and grieving woman in jail... for what reason?? The investigators have long lists of credentials and training. They collected and examined the evidence- and it pointed to Darlie. Did they make mistakes? Of course they probably did - we all do. But just be aware when you hear Darlie and any of her supporters criticising the police and say they conspired against her because it is nothing more than a distraction from what the evidence says. If there are specific things in the investigation which concern you then please bring them up here so that those of us who have been studying the case for a while might be able to address them... but please don't buy what the Darlie camp says about the investigation hook, line and sinker without actually looking into the investigation itself.

If she lied, I can't see the lies. I see confusion, pain, extreme stress from the death of her children and her injuries, but not lies, and maybe not guilt.
I can't count the number of times Darlie lied. Compare her trial testimony with her voluntary statement, with the affidavits and with her "In Her Own Words" statement. Is it a coincidence that every time she retells the story (even years after the fact) she continues to add little bits and pieces that attempt to miraculously explain away the growing piles of evidence against her.

The sooner we stop arriving at our own personal verdict on the basis of Darlie's projected personality and yes, also on the basis of the silly string video (which I personally have never let sway me one way or the other) the sooner we start looking at the actual evidence (which is exactly what Darlie and her supporters DON'T want you to do) collected by the police and the sooner we start letting that evidence tell it's own story- not the preconceived one we have in our own minds about the way a mother should or shouldn't act.

No woman did this, IMO, regardless of her name, race or location.
It fits the pattern of a man in a blind rage perfectly. There's also the slim chance that Darin hired someone to do it but I think it was a crime of passion, not premeditated.

What about Diane Downs? Or Susan Smith? Or the scores of mothers throughout the world who do murder their children in a crime of passion? It happens. We can't deny it. Is it unusual? Yes. Uncommon? Thank God Yes. Unheard of? Obviously not. Impossible? Of course not.

[stlouischili]

I started looking at this case disregarding both Darlie and Darin's statements, which I do not believe to be reliable, and I began looking at the crime scene as the first outsiders on the scene did. I feel that the reliable information begins where the outsiders arrived to give their accounts. I think the right person was convicted, but I question whether she had an accomplice or not (Darin).

If I remember correctly, Darin's hair was found on the murder weapon. He has failed a polygraph about the crime. Also, I believe that fibers from Darin's tennis shoes were found on the sock-in-the-alley. Darin, I believe, has admitted trying to arrange an insurance scam burglary of his home. The jeans Darin was wearing when outsiders arrived, if I recall correctly, were bloody ostensibly from his efforts to save Devon, and the jeans were never tested.
Darin's behavior after the crimes could be considered strange, and some of his comments were inappropriate.

Not exactly a confession or a crime on videotape, but there is some evidence regarding Darin that is open to interpretation.

[Candlelight]

This is to anyone,

I have to ask, because I don't know-and I know this probably comes across as argumentative when I only ask in sincere wonder and without any rancor or malice but if you could see me ask you, you would know that it is asked sincerely and with concern for the truth.
Why is it within plausibility for some people to believe that Darin acted WITH Darlie but not alone, but that Darlie could have and probably did act alone in the commission of the murders?

Also, is it true that the knife which killed one of the little boys was not ever found anywhere? Could it have been wrapped in the thick tube sock ( lying on the dryer probably) to hastily try to keep the blood from dripping on to the grass and whatever else is behind the house ( very small back yard from what I could see) then flung hard and never really looked for by police because they had one body and one murder weapon? If the 2 murders were committed by one parent in a frenzy, why not use the same knife for both tiny boys? This is sickening to contemplate.. but I read that one murder weapon is missing. I think Darin did something with it outside the house and police didn't look for it vigorously.

Why is there a double standard when the parents were in the house together? How does this differ from the Ramsey case, really? One parent killed, the other either didn't, if one is a RDI like I am.

What points to Darlie that doesn't equally apply to Darin? Again, I am trying to learn so that I don't suffer emotionally for a woman who deserves to die in Texas. I admit it, I suffered because of Carla Tucker's execution for several reasons.

Even smart and innocent people can make very dumb choices to remain silent at times. Maybe in Darlie's case it had to do with custody of Drake or alimony and child support for the two of them? ( She really was shallow). I don't think the guilty parent thought that their intruder theory wouldn't hold up. Neither did the Ramseys, but 80% of respondants in a recent poll on Foxnews.com still believe one parent killed her. Despite the latest TV lies.

Darlie's bloody footprints are on the kitchen floor because she called 911 from there, right? Also, she bled like crazy all over the kitchen counter and onto the floor. If she was trying to commit suicide with the slashed throat as some have said, then why didn't she impale herself on the knife at the counter before the police arrived? If she could stab the viseral organs of her children and slash her own throat, why not finish the job when she didn't die? Anticipating the next question- if Darin did it, why didn't he kill her- my answer is that she called 911 as soon as she was conscious and while he was possibly changing shoes or disposing of one knife.

I think she was hurt very severely. I looked at old photos of her today all through her life and her life with Darin and each son, and she seemed .. well, vain.
Bleached platinum blonde " big hair" when her natural color is black hair, tons and tons of makeup and jewelry, the year round tan.. She was at 26, but acted worse than I did at 20 in college in the early 80's, not after I was a mother in the late 80' The point is- Would a person who by all documentation was very vain about her appearance slash her neck, leaving a big long scar, if she survived, that is, and WHY? It takes a lot of courage to stick one's own finger for diabetic checks at first. I can't imagine her having any strength to look death in the face and do something as painful as slash her throat. I try but it doesn't ever make any sense.

What did Darlie have to gain by killing her sons and almost killing herself? or even possibly killing herself? Drake, the baby ( I do remember which D he is because it is a duck's name) was the child who would have taken up most of her time, but he was the one not touched. His little crib by their bed is precious. He wasn't stuffed into one of their many bedrooms. He was watched over, just like I think the older two boys were when they were babies. I think that shoots down the over-stressed mother and soon to be separated wife going nuts... Babies of Drake's age are more stressful to mothers than the two older boys asleep in the family room. They were pre-school and almost kindergarten age.

Also, they were asleep on large pillows. Why not just smother them? Mothers do not usually use violent methods of killing. Fathers and husbands do.

I also wondered what kind of man lets his badly hemorhaging wife try to talk to 911 and get help? One boy was dead, the other in death throes from pulmonary hemorrhage and respiratory failure. I don't think Darin did much of anything to try to revive him although the documents say that he used more than 22 towels to try to clean up the blood as the chidren bled and one died on their rugs and carpets.
I know that I, and probably most posters here, love their pets more than one of those parents loved their children and their spouse that night.
If my pets are injured and bleed, vomit, etc on the carpet, I am concerned with the pet, not the cleanliness of the carpet. 22 towels are enough towels to cover 5 times the size of the stab wounds and the small torso of the bleeding and dying child. Where did the 22 towels come from? Upstairs or the laundry room? (Assuming that their guest baths are like ours- the bathroom is decorated for looks, with two sets of decorator bath sheets, hand towels, matching shower curtains, throw rugs, wastecans, etc,etc. Nothing more is stocked there unless company is expected.

Why can't people believe that Darlie was MISLED to make heri statements, possibly by Darin and the attorney he hired to defend Darlie? She was as naive as a kid. She was apparently treated like a kid by Darin.. but Darin was and is an overweight, young, healthy man. He had planned arson AND a burglary for money. He has admitted this, and I don't think it was to " save Darlie" that he told the truth. A credible source came forward. A source, which if the police wanted to, could have charged with conspiracy to commit arson and or burglary.

I read on an update site ( NOT Darlie's family site run by Darlie Kee or her husband) that Darlie and counsel are petitioning to have Darin's jeans tested for blood from the son who was obviously dead when Darin says he came downstairs. ( I am sorry but I never remember which boy is which name). Some days, I don't even remember my name,. :)

Also, the photo I saw of her nightshirt looked like the blood from one part was soaked into the rest of it after it was removed from her by it being folded together instead of staying spread out. I could be wrong, but that's the pattern I see.

I don't know what happened in that McMansion, and I sometimes really do doubt that Darlie can put it all together now. I tried to gain access to her hypnotherapy transcripts, but I received a strange Microsoft Passport message with the littlehead on it. I am not a MS Passport user, so I couldn't view the newer documents.

Thanks for reading. It's bedtime for this gal. :)

[Dani_T]

This is to anyone,

I have to ask, because I don't know-and I know this probably comes across as argumentative when I only ask in sincere wonder and without any rancor or malice but if you could see me ask you, you would know that it is asked sincerely and with concern for the truth.
:) I completely understand where you are coming from - and please believe that my answer is written in the same vein :)


Why is it within plausibility for some people to believe that Darin acted WITH Darlie but not alone, but that Darlie could have and probably did act alone in the commission of the murders?
Because if Darlie was completely innocent and her voluntary statement and trial testimony was the truth then Darin couldn't have done it. The story she tell's does not allow for him to have done it (no only in her denial that it could have been him but in the timing, locations etc). Secondly, there is just no evidence that links Darin to the crime whereas there is evidence for Darlie. There are just two many questions whose answers make no sense at all if it was Darin doing it alone without an complicity from Darlie.

Also, is it true that the knife which killed one of the little boys was not ever found anywhere?

No - that's not true. It is pure speculation that another knife was involved and there is no evidence to suggest it. There was only one empty slot in the knife block and that was from the butcher's knife. None of the wounds are inconsistent with that butcher's knife. Darlie supporters will tell you there was a second knife because it is one of the last straws they have to grasp- but there is NO evidence that a third knife was used in the attacks.

Could it have been wrapped in the thick tube sock ( lying on the dryer probably) to hastily try to keep the blood from dripping on to the grass and whatever else is behind the house ( very small back yard from what I could see) then flung hard and never really looked for by police because they had one body and one murder weapon?
Firstly there was not enough blood on the sock to have been used in that way and secondly the police searched the area thoroughly. And as mentioned above there is of course no evidence for another knife anyway.

If the 2 murders were committed by one parent in a frenzy, why not use the same knife for both tiny boys?

She did use the same knife.

This is sickening to contemplate.. but I read that one murder weapon is missing. I think Darin did something with it outside the house and police didn't look for it vigorously.
Can I ask where you read it?

What points to Darlie that doesn't equally apply to Darin?
No it doesn't. As I mentioned, if Darlie is innocent then the story about an intruder (whom she didn't recognise and claimed was NOT Darin) attacking her and then leaving her (and Damon alive) is true. So what reason would Darin have to walk out through the kitchen, knock a wine glass over, walk through the U-room, drop the knife and then exit the house through the garage? And then HOW did he get back upstairs without Darlie seeing? And how did he get back upstairs and then back downstairs within 1 min or so when Darlie started screaming for him?

Why did he leave Darlie alive? Why did he leave Damon alive? Any intruder would have known someone was alive when he was exiting because Ddamon was vocalising and then the kitchen light was turned on.

There is just no way Darin can be guilty whilst Darlie was 100% innocent. It doesnt gel.

Again, I am trying to learn so that I don't suffer emotionally for a woman who deserves to die in Texas. I admit it, I suffered because of Carla Tucker's execution for several reasons.

I completely understand. Your empathy is a wonderful but I imagine sorrowful thing.

Darlie's bloody footprints are on the kitchen floor because she called 911 from there, right?

Darlie was very obviously around the kitchen sink. Her blood is all over the cabinet and floor. The blood on the floor in front of the sink indicates she stood relatively still there for some period of time. There is also blood inside the cabinet under the sink.

From memory Darlie said she was getting towels from the kitchen whilst on the 911 call. However, it wasn't until she came back into the house after it had been released back to them and saw the sink had been removed for evidence that she mentioned anything about going to the sink to WET the towels. There is no evidence of dilution of the blood on her nightshirt by water. There is however evidence that the kitchen sink had been washed and wiped clean of blood. Darlie now claims the twoels she wet (who knows why she would have wet them) somehow wiped away the blood evidence in the sink.

If she was trying to commit suicide with the slashed throat as some have said, then why didn't she impale herself on the knife at the counter before the police arrived? If she could stab the viseral organs of her children and slash her own throat, why not finish the job when she didn't die?

In my opinion she was never going to commit suicide. In fact I don't even believe she planned on wounding herself that night.

Anticipating the next question- if Darin did it, why didn't he kill her- my answer is that she called 911 as soon as she was conscious and while he was possibly changing shoes or disposing of one knife.

Doesn't fit the timeline to start with but most importantly why didn't he kill her straight out?? Why just injure her and then walk out knowing she was alive??

I think she was hurt very severely.
The doctors testified that if it hadn't been for the neck wound she would have been patched up and sent straight home. Her neck wound, whilst coming close to her artery was described by the doctor who treated her as superficial. She was never in danger of bleeding out of dying from it.

Would a person who by all documentation was very vain about her appearance slash her neck, leaving a big long scar, if she survived, that is, and WHY? It takes a lot of courage to stick one's own finger for diabetic checks at first. I can't imagine her having any strength to look death in the face and do something as painful as slash her throat. I try but it doesn't ever make any sense.
If she is guilty she knew she needed to make it look like she had been seriously injured. What is easier to contemplate? Plunging a knife into your body deep enough to make it look serious whilst trying to avoid your major organs? Or running a knife along your neck and slicing thinly?

If she had to do it quickly and as a last minute alternative (as I believe) I;m not sure that the thought of a scar would occur to her. In any case not long after the murders she and Darin were talking about going to Europe to get the scar removed.

Also, they were asleep on large pillows. Why not just smother them? Mothers do not usually use violent methods of killing. Fathers and husbands do.
Because it needed to look like a home invasion - an attack. Smothering with pillows would have led straight to her or Darin.

I also wondered what kind of man lets his badly hemorhaging wife try to talk to 911 and get help? One boy was dead, the other in death throes from pulmonary hemorrhage and respiratory failure. I don't think Darin did much of anything to try to revive him although the documents say that he used more than 22 towels to try to clean up the blood as the chidren bled and one died on their rugs and carpets.
Darin spent the first 3 mins or so giving aid to Devon (the older son who died first). He claims he was trying to hold the gashes tohether and get him breathing again. Darlie was running around, talking coherently. Sure she was bleeding a lot (though I think Darin claims he didn't even really notice straight out because he was focused on Devon)- but Darin had two dying children on his hand. Darin was also the one who knew CPR- Darlie didn't.

22 towels are enough towels to cover 5 times the size of the stab wounds and the small torso of the bleeding and dying child. Where did the 22 towels come from? Upstairs or the laundry room? (Assuming that their guest baths are like ours- the bathroom is decorated for looks, with two sets of decorator bath sheets, hand towels, matching shower curtains, throw rugs, wastecans, etc,etc. Nothing more is stocked there unless company is expected.

Darlie was the one who was throwing towels all over the place but who didn't get down and help either of her boys. Where they came from is a good question - the tea-towel drawer appears to be full in the photos and there was a pile of laundry on the counter which wasn't copmpletely pulled over. So I'm not sure where they all came from. It could explain the blood in the u-room.

Why can't people believe that Darlie was MISLED to make heri statements, possibly by Darin and the attorney he hired to defend Darlie?

Because her initial statements were made BEFORE she spoke with Darin and her first one on record was certainly made before they spoke to an attorney. Furthermore when you listen to witness of conversations between the two of them after the murders it was Darlie telling Darin what happened- not the other way round.

I don't know what happened in that McMansion, and I sometimes really do doubt that Darlie can put it all together now. I tried to gain access to her hypnotherapy transcripts, but I received a strange Microsoft Passport message with the littlehead on it. I am not a MS Passport user, so I couldn't view the newer documents.

That's wierd- it should be a pdf from memory. There isn't much in it but I will try and summarise for you in the next few days.

Thanks for reading. It's bedtime for this gal. :)
Np- hope my answers were helpful. Others will have more to add! Keep asking questions!!

[annie mae]

:) Hi to All. We have an Amber Alert:( here in Tulsa today and I am hoping by this evening the little guy will be found:) I am going to take the time to read ALL info on the "Darlie" case because I don't think I have all I need to make any decision. But, I must tell you I feel that Candlelight has a great grip on the situation. Her posts make sense and seem to place the blame where it is deserved. Just my thoughts, annie:o

[Candlelight]

I had a nice reply typed, then this BB said I wasn't logged in but I was. It ate my post.

To make things short, I hope the child is found safely in Okla.

About Darlie, I found some photos, which, to me at least, cast doubts about her sincerity and maturity. I thought she seemed sad and determined in her TV interviews and they were what caused me to even look at this solved case. She said she was innocent, she wore a cross and said she had a new deep faith.

I found photos in the gallery at www.justicefordarlie.net in galleries 15 and 16, called Mt View in which she has posed herself to look like a prison pinup calendar girl. I am surprised. I don't think the photos are terribly old because her hair is really long and all black.

We judge many people on their demeanor as much as their words. The Ramseys for instance, and Scott Peterson.
These photos do not advance the cause for wrong imprisonment, IMO.

She was a pretty woman, and still is, but so are many of us and we don't put our photos on the Internet like this. I am rethinking her maturity and sincerity in a big way now.

Thanks for discussing this case with me. I know a lot of thought goes into the posts, and I respect everyone's opinion.

[eve]

This case is fascinating and I am glad there is a new forum on it.

I think she did it... what about you? Looking forward to great discussion.

I agree, another interesting case. I once thought she did it. I am no longer sure. I admit I don't know much more than a couple of tv specials and light reading on this forum have told me. I did read an article by the author of "Precious Angels" - very compelling -- she lays out how she changed her mind about Darlie's guilt after writing a book asserting that she was guilty. I thought that was worth checking into.

The Silly String episode ticked me off. The whole thing was taken out of context and while I personally may not have initiated that type of graveside activity, I think it was dead wrong to be selective about that videotape and only show that portion to the jurors. Also it seems there were quite a few photos not admitted.

I am very suspicious of Darin. I really wonder about motive. Is it well-established that they argued that night? Anyone think he's the one who tweaked? She tried to stop him and got injured, then covered for him because they had a sick co-dependency going or something? Or did he try to hurt Darlie and the kids got in the middle? I have no doubt that mothers kill their kids, we all know of cases but it is so unusual for it to be so bloody and violent. Usually it seems they drown, smother, poison, etc. It just seems so odd to me.

I also question Darlie self-inflicting wounds on her neck like that -- I think it was 2 cm from her carotid? I can't believe she could do that and be sure she'd miss an artery in her neck, plus she seemed pretty vain, why create such a scar? Much easier to stab yourself in the gut, imo. Didn't mean to go on and on, just so many questions.

Eve

[Jeana (DP)]

The Silly String episode ticked me off. The whole thing was taken out of context and while I personally may not have initiated that type of graveside activity, I think it was dead wrong to be selective about that videotape and only show that portion to the jurors. Also it seems there were quite a few photos not admitted.

I am very suspicious of Darin. I really wonder about motive. Is it well-established that they argued that night? Eve

Hi Eve and welcome!!!

I'm not sure what all you've heard about the silly string event. First of all, the part you talk about that they didn't show. Even if the judge denied it being admitted to the trial (which her supporters say is true and I still haven't seen evidence of), why hasn't it been shown on television since? There have been multiple times that her family has been interviewed on television. Why don't they show it? Why isn't that portion of the video available to see on her website? Makes one wonder what they don't want anyone to see.

Darlie is light skinned. She and I have about the same coloring. I don't know about you, but when I've been crying for a few days non-stop, or even if I've just been crying for a few hours (which I believe is what her mother said happened that morning), my eyes are bloodshot. My nose is red and runny. My face is blotchy. How is it possible for a woman who had been crying for HOURS not have one visible sign of having done so? They did show a close up of Darlie's face during that silly string party because I'm sure they wanted to capture the fact that she was smacking on her gum. So, if there was any evidence whatever that she had been crying, I think we would have been able to see it easily.

About the argument/fight that night. Darlie's own mother told me years ago that it happened. Then when I relayed the information, without having told anyone who said it, she called me a liar. Well, low and behold, we now have a signed Affidavit from Darin himself where he confirms that they had an argument that night serious enough that Darlie asked for a separation. Why would Mama Darlie NOT want this information made public?

[eve]

Hi Eve and welcome!!!

I'm not sure what all you've heard about the silly string event. First of all, the part you talk about that they didn't show. Even if the judge denied it being admitted to the trial (which her supporters say is true and I still haven't seen evidence of), why hasn't it been shown on television since? There have been multiple times that her family has been interviewed on television. Why don't they show it? Why isn't that portion of the video available to see on her website? Makes one wonder what they don't want anyone to see.

Darlie is light skinned. She and I have about the same coloring. I don't know about you, but when I've been crying for a few days non-stop, or even if I've just been crying for a few hours (which I believe is what her mother said happened that morning), my eyes are bloodshot. My nose is red and runny. My face is blotchy. How is it possible for a woman who had been crying for HOURS not have one visible sign of having done so? They did show a close up of Darlie's face during that silly string party because I'm sure they wanted to capture the fact that she was smacking on her gum. So, if there was any evidence whatever that she had been crying, I think we would have been able to see it easily.

About the argument/fight that night. Darlie's own mother told me years ago that it happened. Then when I relayed the information, without having told anyone who said it, she called me a liar. Well, low and behold, we now have a signed Affidavit from Darin himself where he confirms that they had an argument that night serious enough that Darlie asked for a separation. Why would Mama Darlie NOT want this information made public?

Great points and I don't disagree with any of them! I also viewed the Silly String tape, and I originally based my negative impression of Darlie on her bubblegum smacking demeanor. It sickened me. However, I have an aversion to information out of context. It can be so skewed. If it's true that she hadn't been crying, I am at a loss. I cry when I even think about anything happening to my children. Even if she were zonked on Xanax, I would think she'd be an emotional mess.

I still just do not get the motive. I know there isn't always one. I just don't get the violent nature of the crime and the wounds on Darlie. I really question the husband's role. The case doesn't gel for me. Did you read the article by that author? What did you think about her turnaround in opinion?

[Jeana (DP)]

Great points and I don't disagree with any of them! I also viewed the Silly String tape, and I originally based my negative impression of Darlie on her bubblegum smacking demeanor. It sickened me. However, I have an aversion to information out of context. It can be so skewed. If it's true that she hadn't been crying, I am at a loss. I cry when I even think about anything happening to my children. Even if she were zonked on Xanax, I would think she'd be an emotional mess.

I still just do not get the motive. I know there isn't always one. I just don't get the violent nature of the crime and the wounds on Darlie. I really question the husband's role. The case doesn't gel for me. Did you read the article by that author? What did you think about her turnaround in opinion?


I completely agree. I cried for her kids, but I don't think she actually cried real tears until she was arrested.

Barbara Davis. . . a complicated question. One of our posters knows more about her than I and would skin me alive if I said anything negative about her. Barbara has had an incredible life. She apparently shot her first (maybe only???) husband. Her son was shot and killed by police in their own home during a drug raid. Apparently, Barbara was obtaining large quantities of GHB because of "insomnia." The police raided the home, her son was cooking breakfast and when the police broke in, apparently he wasn't sure who it was, and since he was armed of course, he was holding a gun and the police shot him. There were quite a few weapons in the house (which isn't unusual - this IS Texas). Anyway, you seem to have a better handle on why she changed her mind than I do. So far, all I've heard is that she denies seeing certain photographs during the trial.

Douglas Mulder, Darlie's trial attorney (who, by the way was voted the BEST CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY IN TEXAS), even admits that the photographs Barbara talks about WERE shown in trial and were admitted into evidence.

I know that Darlie Lynn's mother, "Mama Darlie," got to Barbara Davis. It is, and will remain my opinion, that in Barbara's "delicate mental condition," she was no match for the EXTREMELY strong personality of Mama Darlie.

[eve]

I completely agree. I cried for her kids, but I don't think she actually cried real tears until she was arrested.

Barbara Davis. . . a complicated question. One of our posters knows more about her than I and would skin me alive if I said anything negative about her. Barbara has had an incredible life. She apparently shot her first (maybe only???) husband. Her son was shot and killed by police in their own home during a drug raid. Apparently, Barbara was obtaining large quantities of GHB because of "insomnia." The police raided the home, her son was cooking breakfast and when the police broke in, apparently he wasn't sure who it was, and since he was armed of course, he was holding a gun and the police shot him. There were quite a few weapons in the house (which isn't unusual - this IS Texas). Anyway, you seem to have a better handle on why she changed her mind than I do. So far, all I've heard is that she denies seeing certain photographs during the trial.

Douglas Mulder, Darlie's trial attorney (who, by the way was voted the BEST CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY IN TEXAS), even admits that the photographs Barbara talks about WERE shown in trial and were admitted into evidence.

I know that Darlie Lynn's mother, "Mama Darlie," got to Barbara Davis. It is, and will remain my opinion, that in Barbara's "delicate mental condition," she was no match for the EXTREMELY strong personality of Mama Darlie.

Hi again!

Well apparently another author, Christopher Brown, asked that she review the evidence with an open mind and after doing so, she gradually concluded that there had been a cover-up and manipulation of the evidence to convict Darlie unjustly.

Is there one thing that convinces you of Darlie's guilt? If so, what is it? Or is it just a combination of factors?


Eve

[Jeana (DP)]

Hi again!

Well apparently another author, Christopher Brown, asked that she review the evidence with an open mind and after doing so, she gradually concluded that there had been a cover-up and manipulation of the evidence to convict Darlie unjustly.

Is there one thing that convinces you of Darlie's guilt? If so, what is it? Or is it just a combination of factors?


Eve

Well, I guess one could call Chris Brown an "author." :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
As I said, Barbara is a woman with a lot of personal problems and is easily manipulated. That's my take on it anyway. I wish her nothing but the best - she's been through hell.

There is no "one thing," no "smoking gun," in this case. Its one of those cases where if you stand back and look at everything the prosecution says and compare it to what Darlie says, there's no question that she's guilty.

I'm not sure if you've seen the thread that lists out all of the different versions that Darlie's told about that night. I believe there were 16 of them. Now, I'm not saying what happened was that she had time to think and remembered something else, or something else popped into her mind. NO, she told 16 different versions. How can the "truth" have sooooooo many versions????

Think about how many people it would take from all different walks of life to frame Darlie for these murders. Its staggering. Then try to come up with a reason (just one) why all these people would do that???? Sure, even if we threw in one or two just for the sake of argument. It still wouldnt' work. Either every single person that testified for the prosecution, the doctor, the paramedics, every cop, every detective, every "friend" of the family, every expert - was lying. . . or Darlie is.

Which sounds more plausible? We've seen Darlie's truth - all 16 versions.

[JimPence]

Well, I guess one could call Chris Brown an "author." :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I'm reading MTJD right now and will post a review when I'm finished. The best I can say right now is that a good editor can be a writer's best friend, and Mr. Brown desperately needed the services of a good editor.

Think about how many people it would take from all different walks of life to frame Darlie for these murders. Its staggering. Then try to come up with a reason (just one) why all these people would do that???? Sure, even if we threw in one or two just for the sake of argument. It still wouldnt' work. Either every single person that testified for the prosecution, the doctor, the paramedics, every cop, every detective, every "friend" of the family, every expert - was lying. . . or Darlie is.

Which sounds more plausible? We've seen Darlie's truth - all 16 versions.
Agreed. If Darlie was framed, then so was OJ. (And I don't believe for a moment that OJ was framed.)

Jim

[cami]

I've been reading the transcripts here for 2 days straight and my eyes are killing me.

Anyway, I go back and forth with this one. I read things and think she did it and then I read things and think she didn't do it. The bruises on her arms and the cut to her neck being so close to her carotid artery really have me questioning things. A couple of other items too, like the sock in the alley. But then there is the knife with the screen material on it and the legal documents that were in the room with the kids, etc., so I'm always on the fence here. And I hate that because I'm a very black or white person. I knew Scott killed Laci, OJ killed Nicole and Ron, and I believe the Ramsey's killed Jon Benet but this case keeps me going back and forth.

If Darin was involved, why hasn't Darlie said that? Or has she and I missed it?


I was on the fence too until I saw that Medical Detectives program and the forensics. That was a real eye opener. Then there's her story, it makes no sense. Her lack of injuries where there should be injuries had she fought with someone.

[cami]

I also question Darlie self-inflicting wounds on her neck like that -- I think it was 2 cm from her carotid? I can't believe she could do that and be sure she'd miss an artery in her neck, plus she seemed pretty vain, why create such a scar? Much easier to stab yourself in the gut, imo. Didn't mean to go on and on, just so many questions.



My own personal opinion is if you want to make it look as if you are a victim as well, you'll do anything. Darlie wasn't the first killer to self-injure. Charles Stewart in Boston and Jeff MacDonald at Ft. Bragg come to mind. I also believe she did it cover up the boys blood on her nightshirt.

How do you snip out a piece of a post to quote, please anyone Dani, DP. Thanks.

[Jeana (DP)]

How do you snip out a piece of a post to quote, please anyone Dani, DP. Thanks.

Cami, just hit the quote button below and go up to the top of the box and remove whatever you don't want from the original quote that you're responding to. Make sure you don't delete any of the [ or ] though and you should be ok!

[cami]

Well apparently another author, Christopher Brown, asked that she review the evidence with an open mind and after doing so, she gradually concluded that there had been a cover-up and manipulation of the evidence to convict Darlie unjustly.


Yes and apparently CWB manipulated her as well with those photos of his. She was at the trial, she must have seen and heard the evidence. She says in her book she saw the bruises and then gives a credible explanation for them. How can she then turn around and say she didn't see them until he pointed them out to her.

My own opinion is just that how could anyone ignore that blood on the back of her nightshirt. How did she get the boys blood there.

[cami]

Cami, just hit the quote button below and go up to the top of the box and remove whatever you don't want from the original quote that you're responding to. Make sure you don't delete any of the [ or ] though and you should be ok!


Okay thanks I will try it next time. That's why it didn't work, I did remove the quote brackets.

[Jeana (DP)]

Yes and apparently CWB manipulated her as well with those photos of his. She was at the trial, she must have seen and heard the evidence. She says in her book she saw the bruises and then gives a credible explanation for them. How can she then turn around and say she didn't see them until he pointed them out to her.

My own opinion is just that how could anyone ignore that blood on the back of her nightshirt. How did she get the boys blood there.


Well, she called Chris Brown an "author," so there you go! LOL Just kidding!!! The photos do her in. No question about it. Couple that with the lies they told on the stand and its pretty clear.

[cami]

I still just do not get the motive. I know there isn't always one. I just don't get the violent nature of the crime and the wounds on Darlie. I really question the husband's role. The case doesn't gel for me. Did you read the article by that author? What did you think about her turnaround in opinion?

I don't think any of us get the motive. It is beyond my comprehension that a mother could kill her own children, but we know it has happened and it does happen. There is no motive really when it's domestic homicide. I believe we would need to know the family dynamics and some kind of psychological history on Darlie and Darin and not rely on what their families are telling us. They are hardly unbiased.

I don't know about you but I would be itching to analyze Darlie. If she has ever been subjected to the psychological testing as in the MMPI, The Tat or Rorschach, etc, it's been kept a tight secret. All designed to identify any abnornal psychological conditions such as personality disorders, neurotic behaviours, etc. Her boys were well cared for in the physical sense, well fed, well clothed, but emotionally I believe she was not attached to them.

MOO

[Goody]

Well apparently another author, Christopher Brown, asked that she review the evidence with an open mind and after doing so, she gradually concluded that there had been a cover-up and manipulation of the evidence to convict Darlie unjustly.


Yes and apparently CWB manipulated her as well with those photos of his. She was at the trial, she must have seen and heard the evidence. She says in her book she saw the bruises and then gives a credible explanation for them. How can she then turn around and say she didn't see them until he pointed them out to her.

My own opinion is just that how could anyone ignore that blood on the back of her nightshirt. How did she get the boys blood there.


Well, I admit her change of heart sounds impressive until you read what she had to say in her book, supposedly before she met with CWB and saw the photos of the nasty bruises. Here’s an excerpt. Thought you might want a refresher, Cam.

"When trying a case, prosecutors must struggle to put all the pieces of the puzzle together and make everything fit neatly. Sometimes, despite their best efforts, questions still remain. In this case, the white tube sock left down the alley and Darlie’s unexplainable bruises to her right arm were troublesome. Neither the State nor the defense team seemed to have much of a grasp on either of these pieces of the puzzle. The sock wound up being ignored virtually by both sides. But the horrible bruises covering every inch of Darlie’s right arm were another matter. The State was convinced that Darlie inflicted the injury on herself after she was released from the hospital. The defense team was just as convinced the injury was inflicted by the intruder. After an extensive interview with a Routier family member, who consistently demonstrates integrity and has no reason to lie, I feel certain that Darlie’s arm was injured the night of the murders. Blunt trauma was responsible for solid and massive bruises covering the underside of Darlie’s right arm extending from the wrist all the way to the armpit. I believe the significant blunt trauma was the result of the attack, but it was not caused by any intruder. I believe it was from Darlie’s son, Devon, as he fought to save his life.

Through extensive interviews with close family, friends and neighbors of the Routiers, various experts, review of court testimony, and the DNA blood flow chart I have arrived at how I believe the tragic events unfolded on June 6, 1996." (Precious Angels, C 31, p 306, para 1 & 2)



She then goes on to detail the particulars of her theory.



So…….She not only saw the bruises in full living color, but she describes them in detail and remembers them so vividly she seems to see bruises even where there were none. (Not every inch of Darlie’s right arm was bruised. Nor was she bruised from her right wrist to her armpit. Other than the bruises on her wrists and the cut on her forearm, most of her bruises are from elbow to armpit.) Point is, Babs is either lying :liar: or in the beginning stages of Alzheimers if she can’t recall writing these words after putting so much detail into it.

Changed her mind indeed.

She changed her mind alright, but I don’t think we’ve heard yet the real reason why. But I'm game if she wants to post why. I'd love to hear a valid reason.

Just Goody's humble opinion here.

[cami]

[QUOTE
She changed her mind alright, but I don’t think we’ve heard yet the real reason why. But I'm game if she wants to post why. I'd love to hear a valid reason.[/QUOTE]




Now I thought I had read somewhere that CWB changed her mind by convincing her the bloody fingerprint was Chad P's.

[Goody]

Now I thought I had read somewhere that CWB changed her mind by convincing her the bloody fingerprint was Chad P's.
You mean the one that has a whorl pattern like Darlie's ring finger??? Huh, huh, is that the one, Cami?

Seriously, I have never heard anything about Chad P's fingerprint and BDavis, but surely she wasn't dumb enough to go for spin like that without so much as a smidgeon of proof to back it up? Although if she is going to defect, it be much smarter to defect on that than the bruises that she covered so well in her book. LOL!

[IrishMist]

You mean the one that has a whorl pattern like Darlie's ring finger??? Huh, huh, is that the one, Cami?

Seriously, I have never heard anything about Chad P's fingerprint and BDavis, but surely she wasn't dumb enough to go for spin like that without so much as a smidgeon of proof to back it up? Although if she is going to defect, it be much smarter to defect on that than the bruises that she covered so well in her book. LOL!
I'm curious. WHEN did she change her mind? Was it after meeting/talking to Darlie face-to-face?

[cami]

You mean the one that has a whorl pattern like Darlie's ring finger??? Huh, huh, is that the one, Cami?


Seriously, I have never heard anything about Chad P's fingerprint and BDavis, but surely she wasn't dumb enough to go for spin like that without so much as a smidgeon of proof to back it up? Although if she is going to defect, it be much smarter to defect on that than the bruises that she covered so well in her book. LOL!

Well yeah, that was the only print in question at the time.

I think Dasgal posted it here on websleuths. Do a search and you might find it, but yes I agree it would have had to have been more than just the print. The black car, etc, etc. Anyway, I will see if I can find where I read it.

[Goody]

I'm curious. WHEN did she change her mind? Was it after meeting/talking to Darlie face-to-face?
I don't know, but supposedly after her meeting with CWB, who lives with the Routiers (or did in the years after the trial). I think he also purchased the rights to Darlie Kee's and Darin's story rights, so it doesn't look like the story rights went far from home. I think Darin plans to capitalize on them after Darlie is freed (if ever) or after her death (when she can't talk anymore.)

But back to Barbara Davis, my guess is that she didn't go public with her change of heart until after visiting Darlie, but I have never read anywhere how much visits with Darlie impacted her views on the case.

I am a skeptic and don't believe anything she says. She worked in the Texas legal arena for twenty years or more and isn't likely to just flip flop for petty reasons. Nor is she likely to be manipulated. She attended every day of the trial and there is no new evidence since then. The bruises, the bloody fingerprint, the black car, and the blood cast off on Darlie's shirt was thoroughly discussed at trial. She offers nothing specific in her statement, but makes some pretty bold statements against unnamed Texas authorities. It just doesn't add up if you ask me.

[Goody]

Well yeah, that was the only print in question at the time.

I think Dasgal posted it here on websleuths. Do a search and you might find it, but yes I agree it would have had to have been more than just the print. The black car, etc, etc. Anyway, I will see if I can find where I read it.
I don't know, Fugi. I can sense some hostility toward the state in her statement and I am wondering if she wasn't already starting to experience some legal troubles, maybe thru her son, with authorities and just more willing to believe negative accusations than she was when she was covering the trial. I mean she worked with these people (or some of them, at least) that she is accusing of wrongdoing, conspiracy (or darned close to it), etc. So maybe the change of heart came about after a change of attitude toward old friends. Just a pondering effort here. Nothing concrete.

[JerseyGirl]

I have no idea what to think of this case. After visiting the media section of the Justice for Darlie site, I find myself doubting her guilt. Of course, the real problem is, (as it often is), there is so much conflicting "evidence" that you don't really know what to believe.

While watching the videos of her just now, her body language, facial expressions, eye contact & movement, blinking patterns, vocal tones, etc., did not strike me as someone who is lying.

Her 911 call sounds very genuine to me, (especially the part where she is telling her little boy to hold on).

The bruises on her arms ... although not life-threatening are pretty intense. Did her husband do this? In my opinion, if she did get those bruises from a struggle with the attacker, the attacker would have to have had some marks on him as well. Also, when he speaks about his sons, his face lights up. Yet I must say that some other videos of him give me a different feeling but he seems to express such genuine love for those boys when he speaks of them.

If she was so shallow and self-centered that she plotted the murder of these boys so that she could be free, why wouldn't she have gone after the baby as well? I don't know guys ... oftentimes evidence can be skewed in either direction. Something doesn't seem to be adding up for me regarding her guilt and conviction.

[JerseyGirl]

I find myself wondering if her husband somehow set this up, (his lack of injuries seems to indicate that he was not directly involved). Maybe he let someone into the house to await the perfect opportunity. He knew she was sleeping on the sofa so he'd be able to tell a "hit man", (so to speak), where she would be. He could have given the perpetrator the knives from the kitchen, knowing it wouldn't add up once the screen was cut with a knife that was originally inside the house, and would therefore implicate Darlie. It would also explain why he allegedly didn't hear anything. How much insurance was on Darlie and the boys?

There have also been rumors of infidelity, (but I don't know how true those are). If those rumors are true, perhaps it was someone with whom Darlie was having an affair ... that maybe she broke it off saying something about her family ... husband & kids at home ... just not right, doesn't want to break up the family, etc. So then the guy comes after the family that stood between them, injures her enough to make her feel some pain but hurts her most by taking away that family, sparing her so she can forever feel that pain. Far-fetched, I know. But like I said, something just doesn't seem right to me.

It seems impossible that this was a random act, someone that didn't know them because it doesn't seem that the perpetrator was there for any reason other than murder.

I definitely find it odd that in this case, (like so many others ... Riley Fox, for instance), that this crime just so happened to occur on the one night when Darlie and the two boys were sleeping in the living room. How many times does a random intruder happen into the homes of unsuspecting victims when they just happen to be right there for the taking? This seems to be a common thread, and I find it very troubling in regards to the possibility that this was simply a random intruder.

In the media section of the Justice for Darlie website, there is a link to a news bit entitled "Routier's Defense Name Suspect". In it, they claim that Darin is the prime suspect in their opinions. They mention the series of questions that he failed during the lie detector test:

1) Were you involved in a crime in your home in June of 1996?
2) Did you, yourself, stab Darlie?
3) Can you name the person who stabbed your son?

Other than question #2, it could imply that someone else did this but at his request.

The news report claims that he did not sleep in his bed that night and that he admitted sneaking back into the house once it was a crime scene. The report also mentions the idea that Darlie was going to leave him, and that he was "obsessed" with her. I was just reading a post yesterday, (probably on the Riley Fox forum), that contained a link to an article about murder at the hands of parents. It was stated that both mothers & fathers view children as the mother's property. It basically stated that women tend to kill their children when they are acting out against themselves ... when they feel like bad parents, unworthy, etc. Fathers, however, tend to murder their children as a way of getting back at the mother, (as in a case where the wife says she is going to leave ... he gets back at her by killing the one thing that is most important to her and that best represents who she is).

I also agree with an earlier post on this forum that the way these murders were committed was much more in line with the methods that men have been known to employ. Not to say it is impossible, but this is typically not a woman's type of crime.

I still won't say one way or the other but when you put all of these things together, it seems somewhat unlikely to me.

[IrishMist]

I also agree with an earlier post on this forum that the way these murders were committed was much more in line with the methods that men have been known to employ. Not to say it is impossible, but this is typically not a woman's type of crime.
Jersey, you made alot of good points, I just wanted to point out that Darlie was the dominant personality in this relationship, (actually, in all of her relationships.) and dominance is typically considered to be a male trait. So I guess I'm saying it wouldn't surprise me to find that she killed them in a "manly" kind of way.

I also think her mental/emotional health was in a bad spot. (beyond bad, but I'm having trouble thinking coherently this morning! :) )
Were these attacks "manly" or RAGE? With her history, I think rage is the best possibility.

[JerseyGirl]

I've read a ton about this case but haven't yet come across anything regarding their roles in the relationship so thank you for that information. It defintely helps to put things into a bit more of a context.

You mentioned that with her history, rage is the best possibility. I'm not sure what you mean ... does she have a history of violence or rage? I'm not being a smart a**, I really just don't know what her history is and I think it's probably of vital importance.

[IrishMist]

I've read a ton about this case but haven't yet come across anything regarding their roles in the relationship so thank you for that information. It defintely helps to put things into a bit more of a context.

You mentioned that with her history, rage is the best possibility. I'm not sure what you mean ... does she have a history of violence or rage? I'm not being a smart a**, I really just don't know what her history is and I think it's probably of vital importance.
She has what is commonly referred to as a "histrionic personality".
My memory escapes me (an all too common occurence these days) as to where I read it, but at Darin's graduation party, she claimed she was raped when she left.
Cami, Goody, DaniT, Jeana-- help me out here!

In other words, she is known to lean toward the dramatic, or maybe a better way to put it is that she let her emotions rule, instead of her head.

[JerseyGirl]

I know about histrionic personalities all too well. I grew up with one in my household, (guess this is why I went to college for my degree in psych - trying to figure out my own crazy family)! :)

She claimed a rape - I'm assuming that that rape never happened?

I'm starting to question if she might have been one of those personality types like those with Munchhausen (sp?) Syndrome by proxy - the ones that cause their children to be chronically ill for the attention.

[IrishMist]

I know about histrionic personalities all too well. I grew up with one in my household, (guess this is why I went to college for my degree in psych - trying to figure out my own crazy family)! :)

She claimed a rape - I'm assuming that that rape never happened?

I'm starting to question if she might have been one of those personality types like those with Munchhausen (sp?) Syndrome by proxy - the ones that cause their children to be chronically ill for the attention.
Well, isn't that cosmic? I was just thinking that last night! While I don't think she had a history of MS by proxy, I think it's possible at the end. If you have to go to more and more lengths for attention, how far will you actually go?

I'm having trouble putting my thoughts into words this morning. I'll turn it over in my mind, and try to write a better post later!

[JerseyGirl]

Yeah, I think if she had MS by proxy, we SURELY would have heard about it. It's a pretty bizarre "disorder", and not extremely common, so I don't think that would've slipped through the cracks. I just mean that there are probably many disorders and potential actions that come out of the same personality type. So while one person might have MS by proxy, someone else might murder two of their children. Different manifestations of the same personality flaw. Some of the posts I've read this morning remind me of MS by proxy and got me thinking about what her personality has been like over the years.

[JerseyGirl]

I have been quite vocal about my doubts regarding Darlie's guilt however there is at least one big sticking point for me.

In the heart of the 911 call, Darlie sounds so genuine especially when telling her son to hold on. But at the beginning of the call, rather than just blurting out her address, she rambles about the intruder, and how she was fighting, and how he ran out. Do you think this is just the ramblings of a hysterical woman or do you think she was already trying to set up her alibi?

From the call, I just don't get the sense that she did this. If she did this, is it possible that she did it and doesn't even realize that she did? If you believe she did this, do you think it was premeditated? I personally feel that she might not have done this but that if she did, she snapped, and doesn't remember. At the very least, I don't at all believe that this was something that she premeditated.

Her injuries, although not life-threatening, are pretty impressive. Where would she have gotten the huge bruises on her arms? I just watched a clip last night with one of the jurors. For the first time I heard that Devon had a wound on his butt. The juror believed that the wound was because Devon was lying on his back and kicking at his attacker. She, (the juror), clearly stated that her belief was that Devon was the one who put all of the bruises and abrasions on his mother's arms. What do you all think about this theory? It does seem quite plausible to me with the possible exception that Devon was only 6 and wasn't wearing any shoes. Would he have had enough strength to cause that kind of bruising?

[cami]

She has what is commonly referred to as a "histrionic personality".
My memory escapes me (an all too common occurence these days) as to where I read it, but at Darin's graduation party, she claimed she was raped when she left.
Cami, Goody, DaniT, Jeana-- help me out here!

In other words, she is known to lean toward the dramatic, or maybe a better way to put it is that she let her emotions rule, instead of her head.

Yes, it was Darin's party for his graduation I believe. When Darlie wanted to leave, Darin didn't and stated he was having a good time. Darlie left but was back shortly saying that someone tried to rape her. She didn't want them to call the police, she just wanted Darin to leave. Darin did as she asked.

I believe she too has narcissistic personality disorder tendencies as well as histrionic. At the core of narcissists is repressed rage. I thinking her coping mechanisms failed that night and that rage surfaced.

[Jeana (DP)]

I have no idea what to think of this case. After visiting the media section of the Justice for Darlie site, I find myself doubting her guilt. Of course, the real problem is, (as it often is), there is so much conflicting "evidence" that you don't really know what to believe.

While watching the videos of her just now, her body language, facial expressions, eye contact & movement, blinking patterns, vocal tones, etc., did not strike me as someone who is lying.

Her 911 call sounds very genuine to me, (especially the part where she is telling her little boy to hold on).

The bruises on her arms ... although not life-threatening are pretty intense. Did her husband do this? In my opinion, if she did get those bruises from a struggle with the attacker, the attacker would have to have had some marks on him as well. Also, when he speaks about his sons, his face lights up. Yet I must say that some other videos of him give me a different feeling but he seems to express such genuine love for those boys when he speaks of them.

If she was so shallow and self-centered that she plotted the murder of these boys so that she could be free, why wouldn't she have gone after the baby as well? I don't know guys ... oftentimes evidence can be skewed in either direction. Something doesn't seem to be adding up for me regarding her guilt and conviction.



I recommend that you read the trial transcripts.

[JerseyGirl]

What should I look for specifically?

[cami]

I have been quite vocal about my doubts regarding Darlie's guilt however there is at least one big sticking point for me.

In the heart of the 911 call, Darlie sounds so genuine especially when telling her son to hold on. But at the beginning of the call, rather than just blurting out her address, she rambles about the intruder, and how she was fighting, and how he ran out. Do you think this is just the ramblings of a hysterical woman or do you think she was already trying to set up her alibi?

From the call, I just don't get the sense that she did this. If she did this, is it possible that she did it and doesn't even realize that she did? If you believe she did this, do you think it was premeditated? I personally feel that she might not have done this but that if she did, she snapped, and doesn't remember. At the very least, I don't at all believe that this was something that she premeditated.

Her injuries, although not life-threatening, are pretty impressive. Where would she have gotten the huge bruises on her arms? I just watched a clip last night with one of the jurors. For the first time I heard that Devon had a wound on his butt. The juror believed that the wound was because Devon was lying on his back and kicking at his attacker. She, (the juror), clearly stated that her belief was that Devon was the one who put all of the bruises and abrasions on his mother's arms. What do you all think about this theory? It does seem quite plausible to me with the possible exception that Devon was only 6 and wasn't wearing any shoes. Would he have had enough strength to cause that kind of bruising?

I felt that way too when I first heard the 911 call. I was shaken, very shaken but after you listen a few times, you get past that to what she is saying. Yes, I believe she's setting it up from the beginning. Think of what she says.

"someone came in, they've broken in.
Operator: "what"
D. "they just stabbed me and my children, my two little boys"
operator: " who, who did"
D. "some one"

Like you said, instead of just giving her address, she reams off all that to the operator.

Although Irishmist doesn't hear her answer the operator I do. I also hear her say things that made me question whether she knew the boys were dead, but then again I hear her say something about Damon to Darin and I just can't quite make it out. The tone of her voice when she says it disturbs me, as well as her going from what appears to be hysterics to saying "someone just walked in here and intenionally did it Darin" I can't shake the anger in her voice when she says this. Her mood apparently changes from hysterics to anger in like nanoseconds. I'm sorry, but I hear guilt all over that call. From her many "we have to find out who did this" to Darin and her "who would do this" over and over again.

No, I don't think she premediatated these murders. I think she snapped. Just my opinion though.

If you could see the Medical Detectives program, it might make a few things clear to you. Like the boys' cast-off blood on the back and front of her nightshirt, to the bloody knife print in the carpet in the murder room. The acoustics of the 911 call to the comparison of the fibre from the screen (Dani's speciality). No, you won't find the MD program on her website. I've seen it recently, Christmas Day in fact, here in Canada. Why would an intruder clean up the kitchen before he left? Doesn't make sense does it. There's a lack of blood where there should be blood.

I hope you are reading the trial transcripts as a balance to that website.

[JerseyGirl]

I haven't read much of the trial transcripts yet but I do intend to as you all make extremely good points. I'd also love to see the program you were talking about.

I didn't notice the anger in her voice in the 911 call. I'm going to listen for that again now that you mentioned it.

I agree that the intruder wouldn't clean up before he left but I assumed that any blood in the sink was washed away while she was wetting the towels, (but that is one of the sticking points for me - I don't understand why she would be wetting the towels except to be able to use it as a defense later on regarding the blood that was rinsed from the sink).

Lots & lots of food for thought. I'm going to read some more of the transcripts because there are so many good points mentioned here that would indicate guilt.

The story about the alleged rape ... not wanting to call police and being satisfied that Darin left the party with her ... that's definitely worthy of consideration.

[cami]

I haven't read much of the trial transcripts yet but I do intend to as you all make extremely good points. I'd also love to see the program you were talking about.

I didn't notice the anger in her voice in the 911 call. I'm going to listen for that again now that you mentioned it.

I agree that the intruder wouldn't clean up before he left but I assumed that any blood in the sink was washed away while she was wetting the towels, (but that is one of the sticking points for me - I don't understand why she would be wetting the towels except to be able to use it as a defense later on regarding the blood that was rinsed from the sink).

Lots & lots of food for thought. I'm going to read some more of the transcripts because there are so many good points mentioned here that would indicate guilt.

The story about the alleged rape ... not wanting to call police and being satisfied that Darin left the party with her ... that's definitely worthy of consideration.


Okay that program was called "invisible intruder" Maybe you will find it on your Discovery channel. They used to play it on TLC here in Canada but now that TLC is all decorating programs, they have shifted the line ups to those digital cable networks. I happen to have digital cable and have found Medical Detectives on our Mystery station.

That's my point about the lack of blood where there should be blood. Darlie was bleeding from both arms and her neck. She's at the kitchen sink allegedly wetting towels while on the 911 call. Where's the blood from her bleeding arms? We know she had a towel at her neck to cover that wound so you wouldn't expect that to be dropping blood. Why is there blood on the inside of the cupboard doors under the sink? Also look at those blood drops in front of the sink. It would appear someone stood there not moving around too much.

My opinion only but I think the only towels Darlie was wetting was in an attempt to clean up some of that blood that incriminates her.

[JerseyGirl]

I think Medical Detectives might be on Discovery Health Channel which I do have so I'll have to keep an eye out for it. Thanks for the information.

[Jeana (DP)]

What should I look for specifically?


If you don't read the entire transcript, you'll always have questions about certain things. You've got to hear both sides.

[JerseyGirl]

I can't seem to find the transcripts ... only bits and pieces here and there. Anyone know where I can find them?

[Jeana (DP)]

I can't seem to find the transcripts ... only bits and pieces here and there. Anyone know where I can find them?


http://www.fordarlieroutier.org/Legal/index.html


All of the transcripts and motions since the trial are here.

[JerseyGirl]

Thank goodness ... I've been going crazy trying to locate this! I read that volumes 2 & 27 were missing but 1 is also missing. Where can I go to find those?

Thanks a million, Jeana! :)

[Jeana (DP)]

Thank goodness ... I've been going crazy trying to locate this! I read that volumes 2 & 27 were missing but 1 is also missing. Where can I go to find those?

Thanks a million, Jeana! :)

I have them on disk at home (hopefully I didn't already chunk them.). If you PM me, I'll try to attach them and send them to you via email. IF they're in the disk. I do remember a couple of volumes that were never put out there, but don't think we're missing anything important.

[Dani_T]

I haven't read much of the trial transcripts yet but I do intend to as you all make extremely good points. I'd also love to see the program you were talking about.

I didn't notice the anger in her voice in the 911 call. I'm going to listen for that again now that you mentioned it.

I agree that the intruder wouldn't clean up before he left but I assumed that any blood in the sink was washed away while she was wetting the towels, (but that is one of the sticking points for me - I don't understand why she would be wetting the towels except to be able to use it as a defense later on regarding the blood that was rinsed from the sink).

Lots & lots of food for thought. I'm going to read some more of the transcripts because there are so many good points mentioned here that would indicate guilt.

The story about the alleged rape ... not wanting to call police and being satisfied that Darin left the party with her ... that's definitely worthy of consideration.

Hey Jerseygirl,

My recommendation is you view the transcripts at www.justicefordarlie.net as they have them all indexed and you can view them online (instead of downloading them) and you can also search all the transcripts.

As Cam and Jeana have already mentioned- you really need to look to them as the accurate record of the evidence. Ultimately, there is a lot of about Darlie's behaviour both at and after the murders which I don't think we can make sense of (like the Silly String video for example). BUT it is not that which convicts her in my opinion- it is the physical and forensic evidence which just shows that there was no intruder.

In terms of the wet towels- Darlie didn't mention anything about wetting any of the towels (or being anywhere near the kitchen sink) until she came back to the house after it was released back to them and saw that the sink had been removed. Then all of a sudden she remember wetting the towels. Her nightshirt shows no signs of diluted blood on it which should have been evident if there was enough water to clean the sink of the blood.

Another interesting thing is that there is blood inside the cabinet underneath the kitchen sink where all the cleaning supplies were kept.

[Jeana (DP)]

Hey Jerseygirl,

My recommendation is you view the transcripts at www.justicefordarlie.net as they have them all indexed and you can view them online (instead of downloading them) and you can also search all the transcripts.

As Cam and Jeana have already mentioned- you really need to look to them as the accurate record of the evidence. Ultimately, there is a lot of about Darlie's behaviour both at and after the murders which I don't think we can make sense of (like the Silly String video for example). BUT it is not that which convicts her in my opinion- it is the physical and forensic evidence which just shows that there was no intruder.

In terms of the wet towels- Darlie didn't mention anything about wetting any of the towels (or being anywhere near the kitchen sink) until she came back to the house after it was released back to them and saw that the sink had been removed. Then all of a sudden she remember wetting the towels. Her nightshirt shows no signs of diluted blood on it which should have been evident if there was enough water to clean the sink of the blood.

Another interesting thing is that there is blood inside the cabinet underneath the kitchen sink where