911 Call- THE TRUTH

[Sabrina]

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3730

I just heard Patsy say "help me Jeezuz". It's on the tape. Thank you Tricia.

[Jayelles]

Yes I can hear it too for the first time. I listened to this portion of the tape at *******s' and heard nothing. However, I have just bought a new pair of headphones for my laptop and I can hear it with them.

If you can't hear anything - WEAR HEADPHONES!

[Show Me]

Yes thank you Tricia! and Sabrina for posting the link.

Yep, you can plainly hear Patsy saying, 'Help me Jesus' and the scratchy noise at the end is definetly not typing.

Tape has been altered.

[Montana]

I heard it too. It's incredible.

[Sabrina]

If it's not Patsy's voice, the person should go on Star Search as a Patsy Ramsey impersonator.

[Spade]

I thought the little boy and John Ramsey where on the tape. Isn't that what Wood said on Katie Couric was planted on the tape? I can hear the Help me jesus 3 times. Did Wood say that was faked too?

[Show Me]

Lin Wood stated to the newspapers..."I wanted to release this tape so the public can know that the Boulder Police Department lied about this tape containing a conversation between John, Patsy and Burke," Wood said.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/6261667.htm

Keenan hired a detective last month to lead the investigation and said her office is consulting with experts and investigators hired by the Ramseys.

Corruption, corruption!

[Britt]

Originally posted by Witness2
I thought the little boy and John Ramsey where on the tape. Isn't that what Wood said on Katie Couric was planted on the tape? I can hear the Help me jesus 3 times. Did Wood say that was faked too?
From the Abrams Report interview of July 17, 2003:

WOOD: I’ll be glad to. Wendy, the problem you have is that you read the transcript published by Steve Thomas, the former detective in his book and that transcript is absolutely inaccurate. The operator only says Patsy four times and it’s followed by about five or six seconds of noise, probably keyboard typing that somehow this aerospace corporation allegedly came up with the conversation between Ramsey family members...

Transcript posted by Watching You at Cybersleuths (thank you, WY):

http://www.cybersleuths.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004627

I realize this is redundant, but Lin Wood is a LIAR.

Tricia, thank you for the tape... and Sabrina, thank you for bringing it to WS. I heard it myself: Help me Jesus, help me Jesus, help me Jesus.

[Sabrina]

And according to Spade, there are a few labs(I think he said 3) who analyzed it and came to the conclusion that the original tape was attempted to be erased by magnets. Perhaps Burke's voice was erased, or perhaps it can be ehanced to come through.

You must all go an read the other threads at FFJ for the entire picture.

[Britt]

Originally posted by Sabrina
And according to Spade, there are a few labs(I think he said 3) who analyzed it and came to the conclusion that the original tape was attempted to be erased by magnets. Perhaps Burke's voice was erased, or perhaps it can be ehanced to come through.

You must all go an read the other threads at FFJ for the entire picture.

911 Project (http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3732)

[Ivy]

Is this going to go anywhere? Will Governor Owens be informed of the revelation? Once he's made aware of the situation, I don't see how he can refuse to appoint a special prosecutor.

[Toth]

I don't think the people who believe that magnets were used to alter the 911-tape to remove Burke's voice should be prosecuted. In a civilized society, we should treat such people more humanely than that. I'm sure there are some very pleasant almost park-like places that they can be sent to instead.

[Spade]

I'm sure that you can recommend some nice park like places from your own experience.

[candy]

They claim that there is a finding that the tape was attempted to be erased by magnets. I would be interested to see in writing, signed by them the entire report who is saying this and signing their names to these type of finding.

They are also just putting out a rumor about another call or other calls before the 911 call. That is one of the many rumors out there about this case. They don't have any evidence of that. It is just a rumor they are repeating without any evidence.

[TLynn]

Was the "Help me, Jesus" supposed to be before, during or after John and Burke's exchange?

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by TLynn
Was the "Help me, Jesus" supposed to be before, during or after John and Burke's exchange?
\

IMHO...Patsy's way of dealing w/trauma was "HELP ME JESUS, HELP ME...!!!"


IMHO...:( :dontknow:

[Blazeboy3]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Show Me
Lin Wood stated to the newspapers...[B]"I wanted to release this tape so the public can know that the Boulder Police Department lied about this tape containing a conversation between John, Patsy and Burke," Wood said.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/6261667.htm

Keenan hired a detective last month to lead the investigation and said her office is consulting with experts and investigators hired by the Ramseys.

Corruption,

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Show Me
Lin Wood stated to the newspapers..."I wanted to release this tape so the public can know that the Boulder Police Department lied about this tape containing a conversation between John, Patsy and Burke," Wood said.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/6261667.htm

Keenan hired a detective last month to lead the investigation and said her office is consulting with experts and investigators hired by the Ramseys.

Corruption, corruption!
DITTO!
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/6261667.htm

DENVER - A lawyer for the parents of JonBenet Ramsey said Tuesday he released a tape of a 911 call to strengthen the parents' claims that an intruder killed her and that police exaggerated the case against them.

Police have said John and Patsy Ramsey were under suspicion after their 6-year-old daughter was found strangled and beaten in the basement of their Boulder home on Dec. 26, 1996.

The Ramseys, who were never charged, have maintained their innocence and said an intruder killed JonBenet. They now live in Atlanta.

[Britt]

Originally posted by Blazeboy3
IMHO...Patsy's way of dealing w/trauma was "HELP ME JESUS, HELP ME...!!!"
Why wasn't she moaning (and it does sound more like a moan than a shriek) Help my baby, Jesus, help my baby????

Tlynn... The Help me Jesus, help me Jesus, help me Jesus is after the 911 operator's voice and before John and Burke's exchange.

More fascinating 911 tape stuff at Forums for Justice:

More 911 tape from FFJ (http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3734)

"Spade" says some interesting things about the labs' analyses of the 911 tape and the conclusions that someone erased the John and Burke exchange with a magnet.

He/She also points out, as BlueCrab has pointed out here, that if Burke's voice wasn't on the tape, his lawyer would not have won the court hearing giving him the tape prior to his GJ appearance.

[Sabrina]

TLynn, This is from Steve Thomas' book. I can hear something in the background as well.

PR: (inaudible) police.
911: (inaudible)
PR: 755 Fifteenth Street
911: What is going on there ma’am?
PR: We have a kidnapping...Hurry, please
911: Explain to me what is going on, ok?
PR: We have a ...There’s a note left and our daughter is gone
911: A note was left and your daughter is gone?
PR: Yes.
911: How old is you daughter?
PR: She is six years old she is blond...six years old
911: How long ago was this?
PR: I don’t know. Just found a note a note and my daughter is missing
911: Does it say who took her?
PR: What?
911: Does it say who took her?
PR: No I don’t know it’s there...there is a ransom note here.
911: It’s a ransom note.
PR: It says S.B.T.C. Victory...please
911: Ok, what’s your name? Are you...
PR: Patsy Ramsey...I am the mother. Oh my God. Please.
911: I’m...Ok, I’m sending an officer over, ok?
PR: Please.
911: Do you know how long she’s been gone?
PR: No, I don’t, please, we just got up and she’s not here. O my God Please.
911: Ok.
PR: Please send somebody.
911: I am, honey.
PR: Please.
911: Take a deep breath (inaudible).
PR: Hurry, hurry, hurry (inaudible).
911: Patsy? Patsy? Patsy? Patsy? Patsy?

Page 15: "The telephone call gave us a cornerstone of evidence, not so much for what was easily heard but for what was found when experts washed out the background noise. It has been my experience as a police officer that such emergency calls are virtually unchallengeable. They are tape-recored, and either something was said or it was not. Tapes can be so powerful that prosecutors regularly play them so a jury can hear the actual voices and emotions of the participants.

In preliminary examinations, detectives thought they could hear some more words being spoken between the time Patsy Ramsey said, "Hurry, hurry, hurry" and when the call was terminated. However, the FBI and the U.S. Secret Service could not lift anything from the background noise on the tape. As a final effort several months later, we contacted the electronic wizards at the Aerospace Corporation in Los Angeles and asked them to try and decipher the sounds behind the noise.

Their work produced a startling conclusion. Patsy apparently had trouble hanging up the telephone, and before it rested on the cradle she was heard to moan, "Help me, Jesus, Help me, Jesus." Her husband was heard to bark, "We're not talking to you." And in the background was a young-sounding voice: "What did you find?" It was JonBenet's brother, Burke.

[candy]

Despite the fact that Burke Ramsey is heard on the enhanced 911 call, neither Steve Thomas nor Mike Kane believe Burke had anything to do with this crime.

[Barbara]

Originally posted by candy
Despite the fact that Burke Ramsey is heard on the enhanced 911 call, neither Steve Thomas nor Mike Kane believe Burke had anything to do with this crime.

Then why lie? And if they lied about one thing, who is to say they didn't lie about many things? Credibility, credibility, credibility.

Whether Burke did it or not, it's apparent that he knows quite a bit about that night.

[Britt]

Originally posted by candy
Despite the fact that Burke Ramsey is heard on the enhanced 911 call, neither Steve Thomas nor Mike Kane believe Burke had anything to do with this crime.
True, Candy. Burke's voice is proof only that the Ramseys lied.

But for those who don't believe that Burke's (and John's) voices are on the tape... for those who believe the voices on the tape are a myth or a BPD lie... the fact that the court ordered that Burke be given a copy of the tape is proof that his voice IS on the tape.

[gretchen]

I had to listen to the recording several times but I finally heard it.
But in the great scheme of things, is this going to make any difference? I don't think Keenan would prosecute the Ramsey's if they confessed.
But great work on Tricia's part. It was nice to finally be able to listen to it.

[DejaNu]

Geez, guys! The major find in the case and it's being promoted as an unsubstantiated rumor or proof of lying by the Ramseys.

This is major because it's proof that someone tampered with vital evidence in this case to obstruct the justice of an objective investigation and successful prosecution of a juvenile homicide! It will also provide more than enough proof that the case should be placed in the hands of investigative authorities outside CO. How much greater could this find be? Go read all relevant threads on this issue at FFJ. A huge criminal prosecution will be held on this matter alone!

Candy, it's my understanding that the labs who are performing the testing on this tape are prepared to certify their findings, along with documented proof of chain of custody of the tape, and turn it over to some LE agency for criminal investigation and prosecution, incidentally, just as Aerospace Corp did. You'll just have to be patient with the rest of us awaiting the documentation that will satisfy you that this is not rumor.

And again, I have to demand that if LW is going to claim this tape's verity, put up the certification or his sworn statement to that effect. Talk about a lack of proof.....All of the experts and BPD have provided profound proof of allegations contradicting LW's, Keenan's and the Rs' position on this tape. When have LW, Keenan et al or the Rs disclosed THEIR proof?????

[Britt]

Originally posted by DejaNu
This is major because it's proof that someone tampered with vital evidence in this case to obstruct the justice of an objective investigation and successful prosecution of a juvenile homicide!
Yes, absolutely.

BUT did they tamper with the actual evidence -- that is, the original enhanced tape sitting in an evidence room somewhere awaiting its debut at a trial...

OR did they tamper only with the copy that was given to Lin Wood to use as a prop in his spin tour?

The latter wouldn't be obstruction in a legal sense, would it? Maybe that's the deal Keenan and Wood worked out -- she gave him a BS tape for his PR tour. That would figure.

[DejaNu]

Britt, either way its tampering, obstruction AND conspiracy. That's why I'm demanding certification. If LW's claims that BPD tampered with the original tape had been taken seriously by Keenan, she should have immediately commenced an investigation into LW's allegations. She didn't. Why? Did she think he was bs'ing? She handed him a doctored tape, on a private deal instead to promot a bs tour of it? What kind of lawyering and preservation of a homicide investigation is THAT? In the legal dictionary, that's called conspiracy, and it would only have been done to waylay the investigation. Where is the original 911 tape? Is it with Keenan et al or still preserved by BPD? And how would it compare to the authenticated, certified copy tested by Aerospace?

No matter how you cut this issue, someone's "good for it" and certifications or sworn statements in lieu are the only way out for the suspected. Notice how only the side claiming the Rs and Burke's voices were at the end of the tape are the only parties to certify their findings????

[Show Me]

:bigthumb:

Go for it DejaNu! I'd like to know the custody chain of the 911 evidence. Someone deliberately tried to destroy/alter evidence...and if it is the FBI's task to interven when the evidence in a murder case is messed with wellll.....what are they waiting for? An invite from Keenan?

[Britt]

Originally posted by DejaNu
She handed him a doctored tape, on a private deal instead to promot a bs tour of it? What kind of lawyering and preservation of a homicide investigation is THAT?
Justice Boulder style, that's what. Sounds right up Hunter's er I mean Keenan's alley, dontcha think? Yeah, conspiracy. Like that would be the first time in this case. Not (IMO).

Whatever went down, I hope it leads to a fed investigation.

[gretchen]

I doubt this discovery will lead anywhere. Noone seems to care about what happened to JonBenet except us.
There is so much deceit and corruption involving this case it is no wonder why this case will not be prosecuted. Too many people would be in a lot of trouble.
My husband tells me all the time to give it up. It is over. He is not cold hearted, just realistic.

[DejaNu]

Well, despite Candy's ridiculous refusal to provide an addy, I've sent the email to LW, thanks to Ned. I will post whatever response, if any, I get IN FULL so there's no doubt where MISTER Wood stands on all this. In the meantime, rest assured there are those of us still damned determined to see some kind of justice done in this case, and many are working on projects behind the scenes. If nothing more, we can make such a huge stink about this they won't be able to ignore it, and I for one will stink up a storm!

[ayjey]

Now, now, you guys, before you get too excited, Mame has an
explanation for this.

http://www.***********.com/dcf/DCForumID101/1772.html


Afterall, the Ram's have been so upfront and honest about everything, you really don't believe they lied, do ya?

[Show Me]

Will Wood DARE answer you DejaNu? ;) Or maybe he doesn't want to open up that can of turning worms.

I'd LOVE to see Wood's response. Not only did he slander the BPD, he pretty much accused Aerospace of TAMPERING WITH THE EVIDENCE....which is a terrible thing to say on National TV.

WOOD: I’ll be glad to. Wendy, the problem you have is that you read the transcript published by Steve Thomas, the former detective in his book and that transcript is absolutely inaccurate. The operator only says Patsy four times and it’s followed by about five or six seconds of noise, probably keyboard typing that somehow this aerospace corporation allegedly came up with the conversation between Ramsey family members...

Wood says "Aerospace corporation ALLEGEDLY came up with the conversation between Ramsey family members"

And the noise isn't keyboard typing or the noise would be heard throughtout the tape!!! Aren't the 911 operators trained to start typing info as they get it???

[Nehemiah]

Who is Mame? I keep reading her name in places but is she a player in the case or just who?

[Shylock]

Originally posted by candy
They claim that there is a finding that the tape was attempted to be erased by magnets. This is really stupid. ALL recording tape is erased by magnets. All tape recorders (video or audio) contain magnets that erase the tape before new sound or video is recorded on it.
There are 2 methods of magnet erasing--just use any old recorder since they all erase as part of the process--or bulk-tape erasing which uses a hand-held electro magnet to bulk-erase the whole tape all at once.

So the person who's making this claim doesn't know what they are talking about. If you erase part of the tape with a magnet, there would be a blank spot with no sound at all-- like that famous Nixon-Watergate tape with the 23 minute gap (or whatever the amount of time was-I forget)

[Maxi]

Mame is a registered member of WS, although she does not seem to have posted since the transition to the new server. She is also a journalist who worked on the Mystery Woman angle. Any further explanation of Mame's role in the JBR case must be written without attacking her personally.

[Mame]

Thanks, Maxi.

In order to maintain my Websleuths membership...I am posting to say it's a gorgeous day in the Rocky Mountains.

[Sabrina]

But ...if you really want to know, you can go here and read about it.

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=224

[Sabrina]

And there is more here, Nehemiah

http://forums.delphiforums.com/PurgatoryII/messages/?msg=1191.141

[DejaNu]

Hello Mame, thanks for the weather update....

Show Me, my guess is that LW would not respond to my email because that alone would become evidence that could be used against someone. He's not stupid, and I respect his legal abilities. But I had to ask anyway....

Ummm, Nehemiah, yes magnets erase tapes. It's a common method. The only important thing to keep in mind is that this 911 tape was preserved evidence in a homicide case and therefore should not be erased, modified, appended or molested in any fashion by anyone. The fact that is has been, now being certified by several independent laboratories after extensive testing, cannot be disputed. Unless of course someone wants to further allege that since the case was shelved, the 911 tape was erased for repeat use in an effort to reduce government expenditure at the high cost of audio tapes.....

[RiverRat]

That's mame. Great job, Sabreena - I love how you cut to the chase!

Maybe she can clear up a few matters for us while she is here.

In Nancy's interviews with law enforcement, she claimed that John Ramsey molested her when she was a child. She also reported the same thing in regards to Fleet White.

Mame made friends with Nancy, a/k/a "The Witness" and set out to avenge her honor. Thank goodness, Fleet was not damaged as a credible witness............can't say that for others though.

Turns out that the only real mystery is where is Nancy now and why mame's home forum now is John Ramseys stomping grounds? Does this mean that mame has changed her opinion, again?

RR

[candy]

Fleet White has hurt his own credibility as a witness with own actions. Like Donald Foster, it's his own actions that have hurt his credibility, not what others tried in vain to do to him. Fleet White got himself jailed for contempt of court, not Nancy Krebs, not the Ramseys, not Alex Hunter, but Fleet White through his own actions of contempt got himself a jail sentence. That hurts his credibility and the fact that he does not want the public to see his sworn deposition testimony in the Wolf case. And his lawsuits that have been dismissed for having no evidence, like his recent one against DA David Thomas in Jefferson County where, uncoincidentally, Fleet was jailed for contempt.

[Shylock]

Originally posted by DejaNu
The only important thing to keep in mind is that this 911 tape was preserved evidence in a homicide case and therefore should not be erased, modified, appended or molested in any fashion by anyone. Not exactly true, Deja. Did you ever see a report that was ordered under the freedom of information act where they had blackened-out areas on the page that are still confidential? They would have done the same here on the audio tape by just erasing the area they want to keep confidential. Neither the BPD or Keenan are under any mandate to release evidence as being complete.

[Nedthan Johns]

The operator only says Patsy four times and it’s followed by about five or six seconds of noise, probably keyboard typing that somehow this aerospace corporation allegedly came up with the conversation between Ramsey family members...

Ned: Probably keyboard typing? Probably implies he doesn't know either. Why would ANY aerospace corporation give a DAMN about what is said on a 911 tape in a murder case? Even more proff what they heard wasn't made up.

[RiverRat]

Candy - are you saying that without The Ramseys, Alex Hunter and Krebs/mame targeting him to pin a homicide charge on, Fleet's own actions would have resulted in his arrest?

BTW - Do you still recommend forwarding posts to Fleet's attorney?

RR

[candy]

Here's what the Judge said about Fleet White's excuse, it had nothing whatsoever to do with his legal responsibility to honor a subpoena in court, and threw him in jail for the maximum, one month, in jail:

http://www.cybersleuths.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003214#000018

Mr. White took it upon himself to decide whether or not the subpoena is one that should be honored.
Exhibit A submitted on behalf of Mr. White and consisting of some six and a half pages is essentially not relevant or material to this proceeding with very, very few exceptions, most of which I have now stated in this ruling. Mr. White’s view of the Ramsey case and of all of the events surrounding the Ramsey case has absolutely nothing to do with his obligation or the obligation of any other citizen to comply with a properly served subpoena unless and until an order has been entered quashing that subpoena.
What this Court frequently finds it necessary to say both in criminal cases involving serious crimes and in domestic relations cases and sometimes in civil cases is, Mr. White, and this applies to everybody, you don’t get to make the rules. And you thought you did even after Judge Tidball made it clear to you that you didn’t. The subpoena that was served upon – the subpoenas that were served upon Mr. White, although this probably isn’t terribly relevant, were subpoenas caused to be served by Gary Lozow, a highly competent and responsible criminal defense attorney. And it is not up to Mr. White or any other witness in any case to decide “Well, I don’t think there was any legitimate basis for me to be subpoenaed, so I just won’t go.”
This Court has been involved in the legal process for over 40 years and often in those 40 years, and frankly mostly in civil cases, has encountered people like Mr. White who think they either know enough about the underlying case or their time is too important that they decide they will not comply with subpoenas. It happens with physicians, it happens with politicians, it happens with celebrities. And one of the messages that the Court has to send by the sentencing in this case is none of those people get to make the rules. And when a doctor gets subpoenaed in a personal injury case or when a celebrity gets subpoenaed in a domestic violence case or whatever the situation may be, the law does not treat people differently depending on their view of the underlying matter.
In this case, we’re dealing with a college educated successful businessman, a mature man. And yet, what has been presented to the Court is six and a half pages of unwarranted and baseless explanations as to why this individual, just like any other individual in our society, should not be required to respond to legally served subpoenas.

[DejaNu]

Candy, you've got to be kidding? FW got himself jailed for civil contempt of a subpoena and that's a BIG friggin' deal? Maybe where you live, kiddo, but here in the real world, that ain't chit. False/fabricated testimony to incriminate FW in disgusting child sexual exploitation matters and public savagery of his reputation on the basis that such phoney testimony is truth is a far greater moral and legal crime than civil contempt with a jail overnight could EVER be.

But I wonder if you'd be so incredibly disparaging if Mame got jailed for refusing to reveal a source. Would that make her the same kind of scumbag you promote FW to be????

Sabrina, no no no! The editing methodology you reference in the above post is known as redacting and under laws and FOIA, only personal info like addresses and phone numbers, social security numbers, may be legally removed from evidence. If you will listen to the tape again, we can clearly hear Patsy Ramsey state her full address. If this were merely a redacted version for public release, that tidbit of personal info would have been redacted, but it wasn't. The redaction defense doesn't fly, see?

[candy]

He didn't refuse to give up a source. He didn't have any excuse like that. His excuse, as the Judge said, was one the Judge was all to familiar with. He can't be bothered to honor this subpoena, thus, he got himself put in jail.
John Fernie honored a subpoena. FW couldn't be bothered to show up, in the opinion of the judge who jailed him.

Then of course, he was subpoenaed in the Wolf case, and unlike the prime suspects who could potentially face the death penalty and opened every word of their deposition to public scrutiny, Fleet locked up every word of his.

[Show Me]

Curious Candy...for years you suported Fleet. Why the about face now?:confused:

[candy]

I never supported Fleet White's open contempt of the Court in the Miller case ever. I spoke out about it well before he was jailed, saying he had hurt himself immeasurably as a witness in the Ramsey case forever by getting himself tossed in jail. You don't see the Ramseys acting in contempt of the cases they have had to be subpoenaed and give depositions in. They are smart and would never do such a thing to destroy their credibility.

I never supported ST when he didn't take a subpoena from the Ramseys in the Wolf case either. That hurt him with Judge Carnes.

I never supported either of them or anyone else who tried to seal their sworn legal depositions, when the Ramseys were opening theirs and making a big deal of the matter of people who were sealing them to the attorneys.

[Shylock]

Originally posted by DejaNu
The editing methodology you reference in the above post is known as redacting and under laws and FOIA, only personal info like addresses and phone numbers, social security numbers, may be legally removed from evidence. I don't know where you get that idea, but it's wrong. Maybe you are thinking about court depositions or something. People are getting evidence files from the FBI now under the Freedom of Information Act and sometimes half the file is blacked out because it's still case-sensitive.

If Keenan or the BPD wants to edit the 911 tape and release it that's their perogative.

[Correy]

That tape is not the same as a transcript. It is EVIDENCE. Whoever tampered with it is in beeg trouble.

[Toltec]

I heard Patsy say Help Me Jesus, Help Me Jesus, Help me Jesus...then static. (no more typewriter clicking away.

Looks like the portion after Patsy's cry for Jesus was erased.

Where can I get a copy of the 911 tape? Do I get in touch with the DA's office in Boulder?

[Blazeboy3]

http://63.147.65.175/news/jon0821a.htm

and then re-read!!!


At the end of Patsy's frantic call, the receiver apparently was left off the hook. With the call still being recorded, voices could be heard in the background.

Patsy Ramsey can be heard screaming, and then a voice that police believe may be Burke's begs to help and asks what has been found, the source said.

Then, a voice identified as John Ramsey's is heard saying, "It's none of your business. Go back to bed. This doesn't pertain to you,'' or words to that effect, the source said.

Police sent a tape of the 911 call, which was made at 5:52 a.m., Dec. 26, 1996, to a laboratory to be enhanced.

Police Chief Mark Beckner declined to comment.

"We will not talk about the specifics of the case,'' he said.

[Shylock]

Originally posted by Toltec
I heard Patsy say Help Me Jesus, Help Me Jesus, Help me Jesus...then static. (no more typewriter clicking away.
Looks like the portion after Patsy's cry for Jesus was erased.
Where can I get a copy of the 911 tape? Do I get in touch with the DA's office in Boulder? Patsy only says "help me jesus" twice. What she says before and after that is not very audible but sounds like "help me" without the "jesus" part.

Then there is a 5-second gap where they erased Burke and John's voice before they released the tape. After the gap the sound resumes for another few seconds until the recording ends for good.

You can get your own copy of both the tape and (or) CD by contacting D.A. Keenan's office.

[Britt]

Originally posted by Blazeboy3
Patsy Ramsey can be heard screaming...
(above quote from the Denver Post article)

Patsy is not screaming, not even close. It's more like a chant or a moan... eerie, actually.

[TLynn]

Toltec,

Did John really say "We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory..."JR 6/24/98

"Victory" was in the RN - I also heard John once say on a TV show - "proper burial."

Didn't mean to stray from the 911 call (but I'm one of those that heard it on TV before joining the forum - so, I already know it exisits with Burke & John on it).

[DejaNu]

Shylock, where I am "getting" my info about redaction is from 30 years in the practice of law. Redaction is the general term of legal editing of anything, including evidence. Specifically, if a civil or criminal case is ongoing, redaction to written forms of evidence as well as tape recordings may be heavily redacted to preclude any tangible evidence by which the public distribution of would create a substantial harm to the prosecution. In cases that have been adjudicated or where evidence has previously and already been disclosed, the redaction of any written or tape recorded evidence is usually limited to personal info because public disclosure to such evidence either has already been done or would not impact a closed case.

In the case of this 911 tape, we do not know if the original recording and the original enhanced version have been preserved since Keenan took over the case. We know that Aerospace Corp. was provided a certified copy of the original, probably by way of a custodial affidavit from the BPD. That certification means that the copy provided to Aerospace was a true and correct copy of the original recording meaning no redactions, alterations, etc. or an EXACT replica of the original recording. This is important.

We do know that generational copies in at least two formats have been released publicly, one of which has now surfaced as allegedly altered in a substantially material way. Legal redaction would remove personal information without necessity of eliminating evidence since that evidence has already been made public. Therefore, there is no legal reason why this suspect copy with partial erasure by magnet of a highly controversial issue to the case would have been needed for legal purposes to preserve the investigation. This is true especially when considering the party who has been publicly releasing this version with explanation that it is "proof" that John and Burke's voices were never recorded! This is also highly important and revealing.

Any generational copy of either the original recording or the original certified enhanced version that is not legally redacted but illegally altered constitutes evidence tampering, obstruction of justice and several other criminal acts. It does not matter if the original of either remains intact. The fact that a generational copy was released publicly and has now allegedly been found to contain erasure of evidence to be promoted as truth could only be construed as evidence tampering. Who did the actual tampering is a more vital issue at this point.

[Shylock]

Originally posted by DejaNu
In the case of this 911 tape, we do not know if the original recording and the original enhanced version have been preserved since Keenan took over the case.

What's with all the hoopla. We don't know if the garrote has been preserved. We don't know if the negatives of the autopsy photo still exist. We don't know anything, so why get your panties in a knot.


Any generational copy of either the original recording or the original certified enhanced version that is not legally redacted but illegally altered constitutes evidence tampering, obstruction of justice and several other criminal acts.

Hogwash. Keenan is under no mandate to release evidence to the public AT ALL. And she's certainly under no obligation to release evidence in its entirety. The Ramseys have not been charged with a crime. When/if they are, their lawyer will be able to see the complete/unaltered evidence. Until then Keenan can do whatever she wants with the evidence in regard to public and private release.


Therefore, there is no legal reason why this suspect copy with partial erasure by magnet of a highly controversial issue to the case would have been needed for legal purposes to preserve the investigation.

What meathead came up with this "erasure by magnet" crap anyway? The sound file is on a CD. It's stored on the CD in DIGITAL format--meaning stored AS NUMBERS. You couldn't tell if the erasure was by "magnet" any more then if it was by "shotgun"...LOL

There is a 5-second gap in the recording after Patsy's voice is heard. It's logical to assume the gap is located where John and Burke are heard talking. That part was not released to the public because it's important evidence which proves the Ramseys are not telling the truth about what happened that morning. There is no way of telling what method was used to omit that part of the recording and create the 5-second gap. The only question is, who omitted that part, the BPD or DA (or both).

JMO

[Tricia]

Wouldn't Keenan be morally obligated to tell us something had been "redacted" from the 911 tape? After all when you do get something from the Freedom of Information Act you can at least tell something has been redacted by the black lines.

If the original 911 tape has not been altered then I think Keenan would be in the clear.

However it is very unethical not to tell us if something has been removed.

Shylock I am curious as to how much experience you have with recovery of digital data because only a meathead would assume they know everything unless they are involved in the new technology on a daily basis.

The CD was created from a cassette tape which was created from the original 911 tape. All data is on the CD from the tape even though an apparent attempt to alter the data was made.

How in the world did NBC miss Patsy saying, "Help me Jesus?"

Lin Wood has been proven a liar. I hope someone has told sent him the link to the FFJ thread about the 911 call. He is so busted.

Here is the link to the call.

http://www.jonbenetramsey.org/patsy911-FFJ.mp3

Here is the link to the thread.

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3730

Feel free to pass this along to Wood. I would do it myself but I don't think he would open my email :)

[Jayelles]

One of the problems with Dave's analysis seems to be that he is depending on his aural competency for analysis.

>>I also think that there is a large difference between people's abilities to hear things. It takes some training to be able to distinguish sounds ("trained ear"). This may explain why some people seem to hear nothing at all, others hear conversation, and those of us who have at least somewhat of a trained ear can easily locate the noises but don't understand how anyone could possibly confuse these noises with conversation.

http://www.***********.com/dcf/DCForumID101/1772.html#38

The real experts do not just rely upon what they hear (aural) but also what they see on the graphs which are produced by the specialised forensic audio equipment. These graphs are called spectrograms and they can show sounds which are inaudible to the human ear (even a trained ear). The expert that I have been in contact says the real key to forensic audio analysis is the spectrographic. Aural analysis is guided by this. He suggested to me that I should ask how Dave analysed the audio waveforms (spectrograms). Courtesy of Rainsong, Dave was asked this very question and his response was:-

Rainsong,

The short answer is that my report stands on its own. I invite others to reproduce what I've done or to run their own tests and write up their results. Then we'll have something to discuss. The questions you posted are a form of cross-examination by a hostile attorney who isn't familiar with audio engineering and basic signal analysis, and isn't familiar with the spectral characteristics of voice and phone lines --- or assumes that the audience is not. I see no indication of a search for the truth here at all.

Technical issues are decided on based on technical merit, not on pedigree nor brand and cost of equipment used, etc.

http://www.***********.com/dcf/DCForumID101/1772.html#8


Here is a link which explains why aural analysis is insufficient on its own:-
"When listening to difficult to hear audio the brain will eventually impose an order to the frequencies and rhythm patterns, and may decide that something specific was said, or may assign a particular subjective interpretation."


http://caeaudio.com/illusion.html

Here is a link which demoshows how the visual analysis of the graphs aids with the analysis:-

http://caeaudio.com/forensicmethod.html#audibility

Also, check out these enhancement examples. There is one which sounds a bit like the Ramsey tape:-

http://caeaudio.com/forensicmethod.html#audibility

I've read quite a few websites about this at the suggestion of my contact. On one of the websites (it might be the CAE one actually), it stressed that the client should go and hear the enhanced tape in the studio because their playback equipment was far superior to an ordinary cassette and that this made a considerable difference to the audibility!

[Shylock]

Originally posted by Jayelles
One of the problems with Dave's analysis seems to be that he is depending on his aural competency for analysis.
There is only ONE problem with "Dave's analysis"--he jumped the gun. He did his analysis on the tape not the CD. The tape was not an accurate copy of the actual 911 recording. It was either poor quality, or had been tampered with.

Now that the CD version has come out, and anyone with ears can hear Patsy's voice, poor "Dave" is scrambling to cover his butt because his analysis is completely useless.
I feel sorry for the guy...he wasted his time and now he looks like a dufus.

[Toltec]

Originally posted by TLynn
Toltec,

Did John really say "We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory..."JR 6/24/98

"Victory" was in the RN - I also heard John once say on a TV show - "proper burial."

Didn't mean to stray from the 911 call (but I'm one of those that heard it on TV before joining the forum - so, I already know it exisits with Burke & John on it).

TLynn...Its in the NE Police Files page 359:

MK: ...Is there anything I have asked or said or done that makes you feel makes you not want to...follow up...?

JR: ...No, I mean, you know, we, we are looking forward to being here and I absolutely want to continue an open dialogue...we have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory, but if we can find who did this, there could be some closure we can understand, what do we do, if anything, so our - you know, the only thing that's important to us is our existing children. And finding who did this.

TLynn...I have circled many phrases both John and Patsy have said in the NE Book. John seems to quote more phrases than Patsy; for example, he once said..."I scanned them."

[Tricia]

Shylock wrote:"I have more experience than any of the schmucks I've read commenting on this issue so far."

Gee thanks. That answers my question.

Shylock continues...


The CD was created from a cassette tape which was created from the original 911 tape.

Nobody knows that for sure, Tricia. The CD might have been made by plugging the original recording directly into a computer. I tend to think that's the case since Patsy's voice is clearly on the CD but not the tape."

Shylock I received this letter with my CD and tape from Bill Nagel of the Boulder District Attorny's Office.

"Dear Ms. Griffith,

You have requested a copy of Mrs. Ramsey's 9-1-1 call on December 26, 1996. We are providing you with the enclosed copies of the record of that call.

It is my understanding that the tape is a duplicate of the original and that the disk is a duplicate of the tape.

To answer your questions beyond that, would involve comments on the evidence or the investigation and it has been our policy to not make such comment.

Sincerely,
William F. Nagel
Boulder County District Attorney's Office"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So unless Nagel is lying then yes I know for sure the CD was a copy of the tape.

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Show Me
Lin Wood stated to the newspapers..."I wanted to release this tape so the public can know that the Boulder Police Department lied about this tape containing a conversation between John, Patsy and Burke," Wood said.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/6261667.htm

Keenan hired a detective last month to lead the investigation and said her office is consulting with experts and investigators hired by the Ramseys.

Corruption, corruption!

Wonder what their (the R's) reasoning(logic/common sense) is for naming(making money on) their book "DEATH OF INNOCENCE"? ... hum maybe the dictionary? Probably "see no evil/hear no evil?LOL

Main Entry: in·no·cence
Pronunciation: 'i-n&-s&n(t)s
Function: noun
Date: 14th century

1 a : freedom from guilt or sin through being unacquainted with evil : BLAMELESSNESS b : CHASTITY c : freedom from legal guilt of a particular crime or offense d (1) : freedom from guile or cunning : SIMPLICITY (2) : lack of worldly experience or sophistication e : lack of knowledge : IGNORANCE <written in entire innocence of the Italian language —E. R. Bentley>

2 : one that is innocent

3 : BLUET

[candy]

Shylock,

Thank you very much!

[Shylock]

Originally posted by Tricia
It is my understanding that the tape is a duplicate of the original and that the disk is a duplicate of the tape.
Sincerely,
William F. Nagel
Boulder County District Attorney's Office"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So unless Nagel is lying then yes I know for sure the CD was a copy of the tape. Tricia, well at least now I know where you get your opinion, but it proves nothing to me. Who is Nagel, a clerk in the DA's office that works in the mail room? The guy says "It is my understanding" which means he can turn around at any time and say "I guess I understood wrong". I don't think that would constitute him lying to you. I mean let's face it, the CD version is OBVIOUSLY different than the tape version. Did you hear or read anyone commenting about Patsy's voice when the tape version was released?

If you believe Mr. Nagel above, then Patsy's voice would have to be a product of the conversion process from analog audio to digital CD. That's not possible. Things like that DO happen, but those sounds don't agree with transcripts published in book years earlier.

[candy]

Bill Nagel is an Assistant DA and the top assistant to Mary Keenan
on all things Ramsey.

[Shylock]

Originally posted by candy
Bill Nagel is an Assistant DA and the top assistant to Mary Keenan
on all things Ramsey. Candy, thank you. I'm still very leary when someone says "it is my understanding" versus "I can tell you for a fact that..."
I would like to hear Nagel's explaination for the 5-second gap on the recording where I believe John and Burke's voices should appear.

I also amazed that none of the papers or tabloids have picked up on Patsy's voice and the gap. What a great story that would be. (Someone call the Globe and NE!...LOL)

[candy]

I can imagine the tabs will say something about it at some point.

[candy]

Keenan on the 911 tape and CD released to the public:

http://www.dailycamera.com/bdc/city_news/article/0,1713,BDC_2422_2104808,00.html

But Keenan said there should be no difference between any tape or CD copies. Her office released one of each, but she said the CD simply had been copied off the tape.

There is some clicking noise on the end of the CD that can't be heard on the tape, but it's unclear whether it's the sound of someone shutting off the tape recorder.

"I have no idea why there's any difference between the two," Keenan said. "My understanding is that the tape should be the same as the original. I can't say the same about the CD."

[Ivy]

Anyone know how much money the DA's re-investigation has cost Boulder County so far, and how long Lin Wood insists it continue before the case is relegated to the cold case files?

[candy]

The money so far has come from early retirements, to pay for Tom *******'s salary, etc. There's no outcry about this investigation in Boulder or Colorado, and it's not costing much.

[Tricia]

Shylock I agree that Nagel gave himself a ton of wiggle room.

I had a copy of the cassette but the only way I can listen to it is in my car. If I remember correctly I could still hear Patsy but I couldn't make out what she was saying.

The tape/CD was released several months ago. Until last week when I posted a link to the call no one thought Patsy's voice was on the tape. So the tabs have not had a chance to pick up on the story yet. I hope someone does though.

Can anyone find anything where Wood difinitively states that Patsy did not say "help me Jesus" or that Patsy hung up the phone completely and therefore there is no conversation?

Thanks Candy for posting the press release.

[sissi]

I am suspicious concerning just what the police thought they heard. I have no quarrrels with Aerospace and their enhancement,but do believe from that point it was the BPD's interpretation. Never have I seen in print,that aeropspace did anything other than "enhance", and
never heard they interpreted.

I believe the human brain can pick a rhythm and interpret things as what they choose to hear. We see it often in the geriatric set,where hearing is often limited. "feed the dog..bleed the frog..need the hog.." this is typical of patterns that can be interpreted differently by those that can only pick up a rhythm however little sound.
Does a bird really say,"Bob White".

Even when we read,can we trust ourselves?
Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a total mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.

Amzanig huh?
IMO JMO

[Britt]

Originally posted by Tricia
Can anyone find anything where Wood difinitively states that Patsy did not say "help me Jesus" or that Patsy hung up the phone completely and therefore there is no conversation?
Tricia, I posted this earlier on this thread, but here it is again:

From the Abrams Report interview of July 17, 2003:

WOOD: ...the problem you have is that you read the transcript published by Steve Thomas, the former detective in his book and that transcript is absolutely inaccurate. The operator only says Patsy four times and it’s followed by about five or six seconds of noise, probably keyboard typing that somehow this aerospace corporation allegedly came up with the conversation between Ramsey family members...

http://www.cybersleuths.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004627

[Britt]

Tricia... You can order an official transcript of The Abrams Report by going to this link:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/MSNBCTRANSCRIPTSMAIN_Front.asp?0ct=-33f&ta=y

[candy]

Originally posted by Tricia
Can anyone find anything where Wood difinitively states that Patsy did not say "help me Jesus" or that Patsy hung up the phone completely and therefore there is no conversation?

No, he did not say that that I can find. He's says "it's not Patsy" but in the context of a conversation. Here's what he said:

http://www.cybersleuths.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004627

WOOD: Thanks, Dan. I want to make clear to your viewers that the tape that I provided to NBC was, in fact, authenticated as being identical to the tape that was tested by the Boulder Police Department. And that authentication came directly from Mary Keenan who provided the tape to me, and I provided NBC with the tape that Mary Keenan provided to me, the entire tape. It wasn’t a third or fourth-generation tape. It was a first-generation off of the 911 original call, the same type tape that was tested by the Boulder Police Department and there is no conversation on there.
And when Michael Kane admits that there’s-quote-unquote - “something there”, that’s a word game. There’s something there after the phone hangs up. There’s about five or six seconds of noise. There’s no conversation there. It’s not Burke. It’s not John. It’s not Patsy. And that’s the lie that the Boulder Police Department told about this tape.
And it is, as I represented, the smoking gun that demonstrates objectively that the Boulder Police Department leaked false information about this family in an effort to smear their name to try to convince the public that they were guilty. And I think Michael Kane will tell you, on the air right now, that he never heard Burke Ramsey’s voice on that tape. You didn’t hear it, did you Michael?

and from the Today Show:

Lin Wood: Well, let me answer that with a quick question. Why did the Boulder Police
Department fight me tooth and nail to prevent me from obtaining that tape and making it
public? The Boulder Police Department did not want the public to know the truth about this
case. They lied about this idea that there was a conversation with John and Patsy and Burke
after Patsy tried to hang up the phone. I gave you the tape, a tape that Mary Keenan, the
district attorney gave to me. It was, in fact, identical to the tape that was tested by the Boulder
Police Department. And this alleged conversation with John and Patsy and Burke, it's not there.
Your folks tested it, the FBI tested it, the Secret Service tested it.

It was all a lie, and it was part of a, a theory, a plan, to publicly disseminate information about
this family in an effort to assassinate their character, to convince the public that they were
guilty when, in fact, they had no evidence to back it up. And this tape exposes it. It's the
smoking gun that shows that the Boulder Police Department, in fact, lied about this family.

[Toltec]

Why was Lin Wood given a copy of the 911 tape? I want to request the same copy he got...first generation as he says.

[DejaNu]

Ok, in the article Candy has posted several times, LW states that the tape he listened to during the NY Post settlement negotiations was a copy provided by the Ramseys from someone other than Jenkins. In this article he states that the tape in his possession was given to him by Keenan, WHO AUTHENTICATED IT, as an exact replication of the original. Then Keenan states in another article posted by Candy that the tape and CD she released publicly SHOULD be exact copies of the originals.

So LW first names the Rs as a source, then tags Keenan as the supplier and authenticator, then Keenan tries to cover her arse by stating SHOULDs. So again, chain of custody is a very important issue. Where did the Rs get their version of the tape that listening to led to a settlement of their case against NY Post and was it authenticated and by whom?

Oh BTW, Nagel's statement "...to the best of my knowledge..." is a very common phrase most legal people use in answering pointed questions. It provides easy out for culpability should the speaker have reliance on others for information that later could be found undependable for whatever reason. Good faith reliance on others doesn't always pan out and such statement isn't intended to purposesly mislead or deceive usually. It's simply lawyer-speak and everybody uses it when we have to speak about something we don't have first-hand knowledge about.

[sissi]

Did I miss something? Was the tape that was sent to aerospace not an original? It was a copy?

[DejaNu]

Sissi, that would depend on who you talk to.....

[sissi]

I have wondered why recycled tapes have been allowed for 911 calls, they are considered "clean",however is clean,up to the standard of an aerospace enhancement? Do we,now, have to wonder about the condition of the copy?
There is NO WAY IMO to solve this,unless many other recycled tapes are sent to aerospace and it is proven either way,do sounds linger or not!

[Tricia]

Britt and Candy thank you so much. Sorry I didn't see the post earlier with the info. :)

It is very apparent that Wood is saying there is "nothing" at the end of the tape. Nothing means Nothing. It doesn't mean only Patsy. This is just what I was looking for. More to come my friends.

Sissi I can't imagine that Aerospace did not receive anything but the original but I could be wrong.

DejaNu it seems Wood is saying he heardthe tape first in Dec.2002. This tape was provided by the Ramseys.

Now LinWad has a copy, the one he provided to NBC, from Keenan.

Don't you just love lawyer talk?

Thanks all. You have helped me a great deal.
Tricia
ps..feel free to take the 911 audio link and post it wherever you like :)

[Shylock]

Originally posted by sissi
I have wondered why recycled tapes have been allowed for 911 calls, they are considered "clean",however is clean,up to the standard of an aerospace enhancement? Do we,now, have to wonder about the condition of the copy?
There is NO WAY IMO to solve this,unless many other recycled tapes are sent to aerospace and it is proven either way,do sounds linger or not! The myth of the "recycled tapes" was started years ago over on the swamp. There is no basis to believe it. Now skank has changed hir tune and is saying Patsy's voice on the tape is most likely "squeeky reels on the tape recorder"...LOL. (Fat chance, since there is no reel noise anywhere else on the recording, and even if reels do make noise there is no way for the recorder to pick it up since microphones are not used--the recorder is direct wired.)

Even if 911 tapes were to be reused, an industrial tape erasing unit looks like a small microwave oven. When the tapes come out all the magetism has been removed and the tapes sound just like new. The only problem with reusing tapes can be if tapes are used for too long of a period and some of the oxide coating begins to wear off. That would cause a recording to be poor quality, but it would still not retain old conversations when bulk erased.

[SisterSocks]

I don't think the swamp has anything to do with LE reusing 911 tapes .

Although, the swamp is without there swamp queen =)

[Show Me]

Shylock posted: Now skank has changed hir tune and is saying Patsy's voice on the tape is most likely "squeeky reels on the tape recorder"...

As fast as a tape plays it's amazing the squeaks sound just like Patsy saying, "Help me Jesus, Help me Jesus..."

Why don't we hear the squeaky sounds throughout the entire 911 call?

[Show Me]

What's also amazing about 'that other forum' is the denial of all it's members, except DocG, of the 'help me Jesus' part.

In fact one poster finally admitted he did hear 'something' at the end...but it couldn't possibly be Patsy.

Hey Tricia!!!!! Or DejaNu....are we going to read any BIG news, reguarding the 911 tape, soon?

[sissi]

Amazing that everything that no one likes is attributable to the other forum,however the first mention of such tapes was made in the deposition of Steve Thomas.


IMO

[Tricia]

Show Me. I wish I knew. I have now told you everything I do know. I have come clean...LOL..

I will advise you all to watch for a wonderful press release coming soon regarding Patsy and the "help me Jesus" revelation. It will be connected to the petition.

Take a look at the front page of FFJ. Thanks to Dunvegan for putting this up.

www.forumsforjustice.org

[Shylock]

Originally posted by Show Me
What's also amazing about 'that other forum' is the denial of all it's members, except DocG, of the 'help me Jesus' part. Hey what happened to DocG, he used to post here a few years back.

How can anyone deny they hear Patsy saying "help me jesus" twice on the (longer) CD version? Notice how even Toth stays out of this thread. I guess he doesn't want to come in here and have to play deaf.

I went back and listened to the cassette tape versions I have last night, including what I had recorded from the Today Show. The tape versions end before the part where Patsy is heard. In the case of the Today Show, Katie Curric starts talking right where the audio ends. It's no wonder that neither of the labs NBC to the tape to could find anything--that part of the tape didn't even exist on what they had.

I really like to see one of the media outlets put pressure on Keenan to explain the 4-5 second gap at the end of the tape where John and Burke are supposed to be!

[candy]

Very cool Dunvegan.

The CD I received from the DA's office is exactly the same as the one Tricia received. You can hear "Help me Jesus" very clearly in just computer speakers.

[Nehemiah]

What say ye about this, Toth? I'd like to hear your comments for a "balanced" discussion.

[Sabrina]

I woulf like to know how come Lin Wood and the swamp get tapes/cds with no "help me Jesus" and everyone else gets "help me Jesus" which can be heard with just computer speakers?

Are the swampettes all deaf? Dumb, I know. Blind, maybe some. But deaf?

[SisterSocks]

I have never thought the "Help me Jesus " WASN'T there. I have always doubted the Burke voice and John Voice.

I Still think there is no Burke or John !

Whats so big about Patsy saying "Help Me Jesus"?

[Britt]

Originally posted by Sabrina
Are the swampettes all deaf? Dumb, I know. Blind, maybe some. But deaf?
lol Sabrina. How else are they supposed to keep those pesky facts from cluttering up their reality?

[Shylock]

Originally posted by SisterSocks
I Still think there is no Burke or John !

Whats so big about Patsy saying "Help Me Jesus"? Sis, have you been following this whole saga?
Limp Wood claims there is NO conversation at all on the end of the tape. No "Help me Jesus"--no nothing. He claims Thomas is a liar and the BPD made the whole story up to make the Ramseys look guilty.

Now that anyone who listens can hear Patsy's voice, it's obvious that what Thomas wrote is in deed fact, and Wood is the one with the wrong story.

I don't think we can call Wood a liar, because it appears he was given an edited tape by Keenan that ended well before the recorded part in question.

And I think that the CD version which DOES contain Patsy's voice, but also contains a 4-5 second gap right after it, virtually gaurantees that Thomas is also right about John and Burke's voice being on it.

[sissi]

I believe the same, it was one of those lies,like "what if I told you John's fibers were in her underwear", these are interrogation tactics,they do not have to be factual. In this case,I believe many of the leaks,(heck I wasted my money on the NE book , it was all leaked via Steve in his),were nothing more than propagated myths. IMO JMO

[Tristan]

I can't seem to get the voice sample of the 911 call to play on my computer. Can anyone help me?
I really want to hear it for myself.

[candy]

http://www.jonbenetramsey.org/patsy911-FFJ.mp3


Are you able to hear Patsy's voice or the 911 operator on your speakers? Because if you can hear them, you should easily be able to hear Patsy say "Help me Jesus."

[SisterSocks]

Originally posted by Shylock
Sis, have you been following this whole saga?
Limp Wood claims there is NO conversation at all on the end of the tape. No "Help me Jesus"--no nothing. He claims Thomas is a liar and the BPD made the whole story up to make the Ramseys look guilty.

Now that anyone who listens can hear Patsy's voice, it's obvious that what Thomas wrote is in deed fact, and Wood is the one with the wrong story.

I don't think we can call Wood a liar, because it appears he was given an edited tape by Keenan that ended well before the recorded part in question.

And I think that the CD version which DOES contain Patsy's voice, but also contains a 4-5 second gap right after it, virtually gaurantees that Thomas is also right about John and Burke's voice being on it.

Well so what does it prove ? It sure as hell don't say they killed her ....

Even if Burke said" What did you find" , he was probably scared.

Who cares about Help me jesus and a 4 or 5 second pause Shy ?

I just don't think THIS saga has anything to make me jump off the fence about .

So what they lied! You all been calling them liars for years.

You'd think they had evidence with John holding a maglite and Patsy holding a sharpie ready to attack, and Burke running around with his nintendo 64 killing Mario. :dontknow:

Humm? Maybe the intruder was holding the writing Pad?


I just wonder if they checked the Ramseys hands for sharpie mark's? I doubt it -- BPD ruined this murder case. Steve Thomas tained it with his Book --- Lou Smit Tainted it with intruder theories....And all the while you guys are cling to 4 or 5 seconds of 911 tape.... GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:rolleyes:

Socks

[Britt]

Originally posted by Tricia
It is very apparent that Wood is saying there is "nothing" at the end of the tape. Nothing means Nothing. It doesn't mean only Patsy.

Don't you just love lawyer talk?
Speaking of lawyer talk...

Wood never addresses Patsy's "Help me Jesus." But he repeatedly refers to the the (alleged) conversation.

Technically, "help me Jesus" is not a conversation or part of a conversation. The conversation - John and Burke speaking to each other - is on the part of the tape that was erased. Wood knows that that part of the tape - the conversation - was erased and that therefore the conversation is not there, just as he says.

Wood on The Today Show:
They [the BPD] lied about this idea that there was a conversation with John and Patsy and Burke after Patsy tried to hang up the phone...And this alleged conversation with John and Patsy and Burke, it's not there.

Wood on The Abrams Report:
...the same type tape that was tested by the Boulder Police Department and there is no conversation on there.... There’s about five or six seconds of noise. There’s no conversation there. It’s not Burke. It’s not John. It’s not Patsy.

Even when he says It’s not Patsy, he is referring to Patsy in the context of the conversation, and "Help me Jesus" is not a conversation.

The closest he comes to saying there is no "Help me Jesus" is in The Abrams Report when he claims that The operator only says Patsy four times and it’s followed by about five or six seconds of noise, probably keyboard typing because he is clearly claiming there is no voice there (and hence no "Help me Jesus"), although he is hedging by using the words "noise" and "probably."

My point is: Wood knew the conversation was erased and he felt confident in publicly claiming the conversation didn't exist. Patsy's "Help me Jesus" was not part of that conversation.

Question: How did he know it was erased and who erased it?

[Maxi]

Socks, it's all about inconsistency. When something a witness or suspect says is inconsistent with other statements or with evidence, it raises red flags.

If the Ramseys had nothing to hide, why would they lie about something like whether or not Burke was awake and talking during the 911 call? Even if it's only a few seconds, it's still important. If it is proven that Burke's voice is on the tape, the Ramseys will have some explaining to do.

[SisterSocks]

Maxi , I just don't think that tape is going to do anything to help this case.

I actually found a few more lies that mean more than those 4 or5 seconds.

Like Patsy saying she never heard of John's affair that cost him his first marriage. John says she was intrumental in helping rid himself of the fatal attraction. Who do you believe ? Neither one right?

Sure they lie.

Inconsistency no doubt , I don't think that makes them killers.

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Tricia
Show Me. I wish I knew. I have now told you everything I do know. I have come clean...LOL..

I will advise you all to watch for a wonderful press release coming soon regarding Patsy and the "help me Jesus" revelation. It will be connected to the petition.

Take a look at the front page of FFJ. Thanks to Dunvegan for putting this up.

www.forumsforjustice.org

Thank you for the above URL (911 call that Patsy stated "We have a kidnapping!") ...

IMHO how can Patsy or "WE" know/believe a "kidnapping" occurred when she didn't read the WHOLE RANSOM NOTE and she didn't give any additional info as to WHY SHE WOULD BELIEVE JONBENET WASN'T THEIR (ALIVE/DEAD)... IMHO a kidnapping (per se) is when someone(JonBenet) is REMOVED FROM HOME/PREMISES...as in not where she is suppose to be... how would Patsy in her panic/911 call know it was a "kidnapping"?(We just woke up and she wasn't their?hello?)

... OR DID SHE PLAN/KNOW WHAT WAS TO COME(BE BELIEVED)?

Entry: kid·nap
Pronunciation: 'kid-"nap
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -napped or kid·naped /-"napt/; -nap·ping or -nap·ing
Etymology: probably back-formation from kidnapper, from kid + obsolete napper thief
Date: 1682
: to seize and detain or carry away by unlawful force or fraud and often with a demand for ransom
- kid·nap·pee or kid.nap.ee noun
- kid·nap·per or kid.nap.er noun

Pronunciation Key
© 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
Merriam-Webster Privacy Policy

IMHO ... common sense says that was the 1st clue that it wasn't a "kidnapping" since she couldn't tell the 911 operation WHO when asked "Do you know who" and Patsy said "WHAT?" ... off guard IMHO...!

[SisterSocks]

LOL You guys how funny--- gona get some Justice for Jon Benet.

LOL your knocking on the wrong door .

Try curtain number two...

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by SisterSocks
Maxi , I just don't think that tape is going to do anything to help this case.

I actually found a few more lies that mean more than those 4 or5 seconds.

Like Patsy saying she never heard of John's affair that cost him his first marriage. John says she was intrumental in helping rid himself of the fatal attraction. Who do you believe ? Neither one right?

Sure they lie.

Inconsistency no doubt , I don't think that makes them killers.

...justification for all ... it's called "coordination" and they (THE R's) were alittle off "coordination" in their story(ies), at that time, right/wrong (who the H.ll cares ... when their is a KILLER ON THE LOOSE?!) ...

[SisterSocks]

Yup Blaze that just what Maxi said a post or 2 up ....

[SisterSocks]

Indeed Blaze there is a Killer on the loose ...

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Maxi
Socks, it's all about inconsistency. When something a witness or suspect says is inconsistent with other statements or with evidence, it raises red flags.

If the Ramseys had nothing to hide, why would they lie about something like whether or not Burke was awake and talking during the 911 call? Even if it's only a few seconds, it's still important. If it is proven that Burke's voice is on the tape, the Ramseys will have some explaining to do.


Ditto ... inconsistency "says a thousand words + sum" IMHO.

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by SisterSocks
Indeed Blaze there is a Killer on the loose ...

Do you believe Patsy believed "it was a kidnapping" in the 911 emergency call?

IMHO how can Patsy or "WE" know/believe a "kidnapping" occurred when she didn't read the WHOLE RANSOM NOTE and she didn't give any additional info as to WHY SHE WOULD BELIEVE JONBENET WASN'T THEIR (ALIVE/DEAD)... IMHO a kidnapping (per se) is when someone(JonBenet) is REMOVED FROM HOME/PREMISES...as in not where she is suppose to be... how would Patsy in her panic/911 call know it was a "kidnapping"?(We just woke up and she wasn't their?hello?)

... OR DID SHE PLAN/KNOW WHAT WAS TO COME(BE BELIEVED)?

Entry: kid·nap
Pronunciation: 'kid-"nap
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -napped or kid·naped /-"napt/; -nap·ping or -nap·ing
Etymology: probably back-formation from kidnapper, from kid + obsolete napper thief
Date: 1682
: to seize and detain or carry away by unlawful force or fraud and often with a demand for ransom
- kid·nap·pee or kid.nap.ee noun
- kid·nap·per or kid.nap.er noun

Pronunciation Key
© 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
Merriam-Webster Privacy Policy

IMHO ... common sense says that was the 1st clue that it wasn't a "kidnapping" since she couldn't tell the 911 operation WHO when asked "Do you know who" and Patsy said "WHAT?" ... off guard IMHO...!

[SisterSocks]

Blaze , I (me ,myself)don't believe the Ramsey's kill JB.

BTW Why do you put all the words in dictionary ?
Really we all have the option to hit edit and look up a word ....
Its really a waste of band width. Thanks.

[Barbara]

SisterSocks,

You keep stating that the Ramseys, in your opinion, did not kill JonBenet, yet you are also stating that they lie quite often.

I just HAVE to ask: Why do you think they lie about all these "little" things that add up to quite a bit?

You make a lot of statements, yet you have not offered up your theory on this case, nor do you expound on your statements that you seem to put in absolutes. "Burke did not kill JB", Pam did not kill JB, The Ramseys didn't do it, "so what if they lie", etc., etc.

Why don't you tell us what you think about this case and the reasons the Ramseys tell so many lies? Personally, I am very curious about your theory. Share it with us.

[Shylock]

Originally posted by SisterSocks
Indeed Blaze there is a Killer on the loose ... And hopefully none of us is in a direct line between Atlanta and Charlevoix--or we might get run over by said killer traveling in a high speed bus.

[Maxi]

Originally posted by SisterSocks
Maxi , I just don't think that tape is going to do anything to help this case.

I actually found a few more lies that mean more than those 4 or5 seconds.

Like Patsy saying she never heard of John's affair that cost him his first marriage. John says she was intrumental in helping rid himself of the fatal attraction. Who do you believe ? Neither one right?

Sure they lie.

Inconsistency no doubt , I don't think that makes them killers.

Socks, it's not that the tape serves as evidence of the murder. It's just that if Burke's on it, it carries the implication that the Ramseys had reason to lie about the events of that morning. You gotta wonder why. Maybe they were just trying to protect Burke from the trauma of lots of police interrogation. Or maybe they were afraid he knew something that might come out under that interrogation.

As for John's affair, everybody lies about sex. I don't think it's any biggie.

[Spade]

I don't understand any reason for the Ramsey's to lie unless one of them killed JonBenet. I mean if you were really trying to help the police catch the kidnappers and get your daughter back safely, wouldn't you want to tell them the truth about every detail?

[sissi]

I can't imagine they have lied about anything.
The panic that set in when they found the note,and their daughter missing,may very well have been enough for their minds to take in,therefore blurring the details a bit,but a lie,I don't believe that.
Right after Patsy called 911,it is very possible Patsy made phone calls to her friends on a cell. She could well have said, Help me Jesus, could well have said,"I found a ......and the person on the other line responded..what did you find..a child from that home could have been awakened by the call,and said ..something,to which his parents respond...we're not talking to you. Whatever that conversation was,it wasn't from the Ramsey's kitchen or it would not have been necessary to have it enhanced.
JMO IMO

[Shylock]

Originally posted by sissi
Whatever that conversation was,it wasn't from the Ramsey's kitchen or it would not have been necessary to have it enhanced.
JMO IMO Thomas said all along that Patsy had trouble hanging up the phone. The conversation DID come from the Ramsey kitchen, it's just that none of the 3 of them were speaking directly into the phone at the time.

I don't know if this was the case in Boulder, but police departments have the ability to hold the phone line open when you call 911, making it impossible to hang up and use the phone. Years ago I had a 910 exchange where I lived. My young kids would constantly dial 911 by mistake. The police would hold the line open until a cop showed up at the front door making sure nobody seriously needed help.

[TLynn]

"So what they lied! You all been calling them liars for years."

And, it seems "we've" been right.

Thomas and/or the BPD should file suit against Wood for slander. It's John's philosphy (wasn't it in the context of Hitler?) - tell the lie often enough and people will believe it.

I remember the way posters were down on the VanDams because they "lied" about smoking pot. Actually, they just didn't mention it. Didn't think it was part of the investigation (and were probably scared because it was illegal).

Burke being awake IS part of the investigation - did he see anything, hear anything...etc.

If the Ramseys lie about that - then, you can't trust them to tell the truth about anything.

If Burke isn't on the tape, then his attorney wouldn't have gotten a copy before the Grand Jury testimony.

[Nedthan Johns]

Maxi: If it is proven that Burke's voice is on the tape, the Ramseys will have some explaining to do.

Ned: Ah Maxi you have a good point, and I wonder, if the REAL enhancement is clear enough to reveal that the voice is that of a young boy, is it clear enough to match to a voice recognizer test. I don't know how these are performed or who does them, but I am sure this conversation between Burke and John could be confirmed by a voice analyzer. My thoughts are since this 911 tape has been released WHY hasn't Burke been called in for re-questioning and been allowed to hear the tape for himself?

Not even Lin Wood could stop that. So why isn't it being done, this is after all an OPEN murder investigation. I think a NEW petition should be written that DEMANDS that investigators confirm whether this 911 conversation really exsists or not.

If it does a PUBLIC statement should be made regarding the findings, which state unequively that the Ramsey's LIED in their statements to police regarding that events of that morning.

If ya can't get a confession, you put the pressure on the Ramsey's every day, until their life becomes unbearable. With public outcry soon they will have no where to run and hide.

[Show Me]

Originally posted by Witness2
I don't understand any reason for the Ramsey's to lie unless one of them killed JonBenet. I mean if you were really trying to help the police catch the kidnappers and get your daughter back safely, wouldn't you want to tell them the truth about every detail?

EXACTLY Witness2...you said it well!

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by SisterSocks
Blaze , I (me ,myself)don't believe the Ramsey's kill JB.

BTW Why do you put all the words in dictionary ?
Really we all have the option to hit edit and look up a word ....


Its really a waste of band width. Thanks.
Educate me : what's "waste of BAND WIDTH" mean?

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by SisterSocks
Blaze , I (me ,myself)don't believe the Ramsey's kill JB.

BTW Why do you put all the words in dictionary ?
Really we all have the option to hit edit and look up a word ....
Its really a waste of band width. Thanks.

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by SisterSocks
Blaze , I (me ,myself)don't believe the Ramsey's kill JB.

BTW Why do you put all the words in dictionary ?
Really we all have the option to hit edit and look up a word ....

"Is your "believe" in order/correct/up-to-par per JonBenet/Justice?

Just curious!Share!Thank Tou!

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Shylock
Sis, have you been following this whole saga?
Limp Wood claims there is NO conversation at all on the end of the tape. No "Help me Jesus"--no nothing. He claims Thomas is a liar and the BPD made the whole story up to make the Ramseys look guilty.

Now that anyone who listens can hear Patsy's voice, it's obvious that what Thomas wrote is in deed fact, and Wood is the one with the wrong story.

I don't think we can call Wood a liar, because it appears he was given an edited tape by Keenan that ended well before the recorded part in question.

And I think that the CD version which DOES contain Patsy's voice, but also contains a 4-5 second gap right after it, virtually gaurantees that Thomas is also right about John and Burke's voice being on it.

So SHYLOCK... in plain English/no french ... what are you "saying/stating/posting?"

[Shylock]

http://207.36.4.219/forums/images/icons/icon1.gifOriginally posted by Nedthan Johns
My thoughts are since this 911 tape has been released WHY hasn't Burke been called in for re-questioning and been allowed to hear the tape for himself?
Ned, I think what you are asking for already happened during the Grand Jury investigation.
I also think Burke's "selective recall" would be even more "selective" at this late date...if you know what I mean.

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Britt
(above quote from the Denver Post article)

Patsy is not screaming, not even close. It's more like a chant or a moan... eerie, actually.
OK...so it depends on one's perspective/attitude? WHAT's THE DIFFERENCE between a CHANT... and a MOAN ... and a SCREAM? in regards to JonBenet?

[SisterSocks]

The difference is.... JonBenet is dead the screamer, moaner and, the intruder that killed JB is alive.

[Britt]

Originally posted by Blazeboy3
WHAT's THE DIFFERENCE between a CHANT... and a MOAN ... and a SCREAM? in regards to JonBenet?
A real scream, e.g. a shriek like "Oh my poor baby! Help, Jesus!!" or something like that IMO would suggest to me a genuine kidnapping/distraught mother.

Instead, we hear a low monotone repetitive "Help me Jesus," which IMO suggests someone in deep chit praying for the strength to get herself out of this mess.

The Burke/John conversation is where it gets really interesting IMO. It sounds as if only part of it is caught on the tape. At one point Burke says "Well what DID you find?" -- emphasis on the "did." I wonder if Burke overheard that John had found JonBen&eacute;t's body in the basement, and asked John about it, to which John replied that no, he didn't find JB (obviously not... after all, she'd been kidnapped and they were in the process of calling the police), so Burke asked "Well what DID you find?" Just speculating on the meaning of emphasizing the word "did" in that question. I wonder what the entire John/Burke exchange included, and if there's some potentially devastating (for the Ramseys) stuff and that's why they're so terrified of that 911 enhancement.

[Shylock]

Originally posted by Britt
The Burke/John conversation is where it gets really interesting IMO. It sounds as if only part of it is caught on the tape. At one point Burke says "Well what DID you find?" -- emphasis on the "did." What are you listening to?
The audio tape version was cut off right before Patsy says the first "help me jesus". The CD version has about a 4 second erased gap right after after Patsy where it's logical to assume Burke and John are heard.
Where are you hearing Burke's voice? It doesn't exist on any of the versions I've heard so far.

[DejaNu]

While this new revelation exposes yet another lie by the Rs, doesn't anyone even wonder why Keenan altered that tape before releasing it? She already had publicly stated she agreed with Carnes that the "evidence" more strongly suggested an intruder than one of the Ramseys. Doesn't anyone think it's hinky given that statement that she would alter THIS tape to exclude John and Burke's voices, then give it to their attorney to parade around like the truth??? Doesn't anyone else think this is WAY outside the boundaries for a prosecutor in a homicide investigation????

[Britt]

Originally posted by Shylock
What are you listening to?
The audio tape version was cut off right before Patsy says the first "help me jesus". The CD version has about a 4 second erased gap right after after Patsy where it's logical to assume Burke and John are heard.
Where are you hearing Burke's voice? It doesn't exist on any of the versions I've heard so far.
Hi Shylock. I'm referring to the notes posted by Spade:

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3732&perpage=12&pagenumber=4

[Shylock]

Originally posted by DejaNu
While this new revelation exposes yet another lie by the Rs, doesn't anyone even wonder why Keenan altered that tape before releasing it? First we have to figure out who it was that edited the tape. Was it Keenan, Beckner, or a combo of the two?
Keenan is certainly not the sharpest knife in the drawer. It could be that Beckner edited the tape before he turned a copy over to her and she didn't even know it.

[Maxi]

I just thought of something. If my child were kidnapped, I'd be praying, too. But I wouldn't be asking Jesus to help ME. I'd be praying, Oh, Lord, please watch over my baby. Unless I knew she was already dead.

[DejaNu]

Shylock: "First we have to figure out who it was that edited the tape. Was it Keenan, Beckner, or a combo of the two? Keenan is certainly not the sharpest knife in the drawer. It could be that Beckner edited the tape before he turned a copy over to her and she didn't even know it."

Well, Shy, like just about everything else in this case, figuring out who dunnit with the tape will be nothing but more conjecture on our part without getting the original for comparison. Knives don't have to be sharp when they can rely on sheathes to cover their foibles.

From a legal perspective, the BDA would be held responsible. Of course, your statement would make a fine defense argument if they ever were, and it would need to be hashed out in court.

I just cannot believe that there has been so MUCH cover up in this case from so MANY parties and there's nothing that will be done about it. I believe this tape revelation should be turned over to Owens (with a copy to Kane?) just to hold someone accountable for investigating it and other potential misdeeds in the handling of this case.

[Britt]

Originally posted by Maxi
I just thought of something. If my child were kidnapped, I'd be praying, too. But I wouldn't be asking Jesus to help ME. I'd be praying, Oh, Lord, please watch over my baby. Unless I knew she was already dead.
Exactly, Maxi, exactly.

[tipper]

"The mother, Patsy Ramsey was out of control. She kept saying she wanted to trade places with her daughter. 'Please let her be safe. Please let her be safe.' She was tormented, incoherent."

PMPT ppbk p.11

Doesn't sound like she knew she was already dead to me.

[Britt]

Originally posted by tipper
"The mother, Patsy Ramsey was out of control. She kept saying she wanted to trade places with her daughter. 'Please let her be safe. Please let her be safe.' She was tormented, incoherent."

PMPT ppbk p.11

Doesn't sound like she knew she was already dead to me.
Well of course she was putting on a great show once her audience had arrived... lol. Kidnap scene, Take 1.

That's why the post 'hang-up' words/conversation are so important -- what was said, and what was going on, when the Ramseys weren't performing.

[tipper]

Since none of us know what she said or what prayers she uttered before the police got there, I don't think one can draw any kind of conclusion about what she did or didn't ask for. To me it sounds like she is asking for strength and help in getting her little girl back. On the other hand, I'm sure some of you think she's asking Jesus to help her outwit the police.

[Toth]

Frankly I'm a bit more interested in thinks like fingerprints than in prayers the victim's of a kidnapping may or may not have uttered and if uttered are interpretable in any number of ways since 'help me' can mean 'give me the strength to make the right decisions for my daughter's safety' just as it can have all these interpetations that you people want to put on it such as 'help me get through this play-acting'.

[Sabrina]

Patsy's talent entry for the Miss America pageant was dramatic reading.

She was experienced.

As far as I am concerned, it does not matter what is on that tape- a moan, a help me, a chant. The point is there IS something, the phone was not hung up and Lin Wood and the RST lied about it.

[Shylock]

Originally posted by Sabrina
The point is there IS something, the phone was not hung up and Lin Wood and the RST lied about it. Hey Toth. Read the point above on an hourly basis for a few months until you eventually "get it" and realize you've been "had" by the Rammers.

[Toth]

quote:
Originally posted by Sabrina
The point is there IS something, the phone was not hung up and Lin Wood and the RST lied about it.

Hey Toth. Read the point above on an hourly basis for a few months until you eventually "get it" and realize you've been "had" by the Rammers.

Hey, Shylock. Read the point above on an hourly basis for a few months until you eventually "get it" and realize you've been "had" by these Rabid Posters who don't realize the phone was properly hung up and nothing whatsoever untoward is on that tape.

[Shylock]

Originally posted by Toth
these Rabid Posters who don't realize the phone was properly hung up and nothing whatsoever untoward is on that tape. [/B] Sorry Toth but the jig is up. WE have ALL heard the CD version of the 911 call and the vast majority of us have hearing good enough to clearly hear Patsy saying "help me Jesus", just as Thomas described.

Now if YOU are in the ultra-low percentage who CAN'T hear it, you obviously need to visit a good doctor and get yourself a decent hearing aid.
Forget the Swamp--try the Yellow Pages.

[Toth]

Originally posted by Shylock
WE have ALL heard Patsy saying "help me Jesus", just as Thomas described. Do you hear the bell and see the crystal ball glow too as the spirits make themselves known?

Or do you really think DA Keenan would tamper with the tapes?

[Show Me]

I HEARD Patsy say "help me Jesus" Toth.

[Thorkim]

Yep, so did I Show. No question.

[Jayelles]

I too heard the sound which could be Patsy saying "Help me jesus". There is no doubt that it's there. Of course, some people who are deaf or in denial might not hear it.

[Maikai]

So...some say they heard Patsy say "Help me Jesus." I'll assume for a minute that's possible---where are Burke's and JR's voices saying "What did you find?" and "We're not talking to you?" "Help me Jesus" certainly is not incriminating.

The phone was a wall phone--it would be difficult to hang it up, without the receiver clanking down to the floor.

Face it--there's no voices from the Ramsey household after Patsy hung up-----and if there were, they wouldn't have to go through all these gyrations in trying to find them....you'd hear them plainly. This was purely a ST police tactic--trying to catch the Ramseys in a lie, to show they lied about other things. And this came to light, after ST found out Burke was not asleep---but faked sleeping in his bed. That's all there is to it, folks.

[Barbara]

There is much more to it than that Maikai. How is it possible that only those on the other forum can't hear the voices and everyone else can?

The tape was in fact, likely doctored to edit out or erase John and Burke's voice, but not by ST. Think about it.

While the "help me Jesus" is not by itself incriminating, again, why deny it? What else are you denying?

ST was not the only one who heard what was earlier stated on the tape.

This conspiracy and lying seems to include more people than OJ accused in his case. Give it a rest. Only a select few feel that there is a major conspiracy to "get the Ramseys".

It's foolish to believe they are ALL lying about evidence just to get the Ramseys.

[Jayelles]

Maikai,

Please, please read the websites on audio enhancement. There you will find descriptions of of how spectrography can detect sounds which are inaudible to the human ear. Enhancement (which basically just means filtering out non-verbal sound) enables these sounds to be interpreted.

The audio tapes on the Net are NOT the enhanced versions. Dave's version doesn't count because he did not meet the standards for forensic audio analysis. He gives no detailed discussion of his spectral analysis and it is unlcear how he analysed the waveforms. When asked, he dismissed the question. In fact, the wave analysis is one of the most important stages of forensic audio analysis which can easily verify if you go to any of the sites.

[Maikai]

Sorry, Jayelles---I don't buy into the voices after the hangup. The phone was either hung up, or it fell off and crashed to the floor. You can't patially hang up that kind of phone, and even if that was the case, you'd hear the voices more clearly. The 911 operator may have been in a call center...she didn't hang up right away, because she was trying not to terminate the call...you could hear her clicking (typing) in the background. It was a crumb ST and the BPD latched onto, because they knew later that Burke was awake in his bed---they wanted another piece of circumstantial evidence, and something else to put out there in the media. That's all there was to it.

[Shylock]

MAIKAI: where are Burke's and JR's voices saying "What did you find?" and "We're not talking to you?"

That's what we ALL want to know! There is a 4-second gap after Patsy's last "help me Jesus" where it's VERY logical to assume Burke and John appear with the lines you quoted above. Who erased that portion of the tape? It has CLEARLY been edited because the sound completely goes blank then returns to the same background noise. Have you listened the the "CD version" of the 911 call? It's VASTLY different than the original audio tape version that was released first.


"Help me Jesus" certainly is not incriminating.

Of course it isn't. But it follows the script in ST's book perfectly and the RST has denied ANY voices are there. If Patsy's voice is there, then you can be 99.9% sure John and Burke's voices are too. The Ram$eys lied, Maikai. Burke was NOT in bed and was up during the 911 call. That fact has now been proven and anyone with ears can verify it.


The phone was a wall phone--it would be difficult to hang it up, without the receiver clanking down to the floor.

Where did this "Patsy had trouble hanging up the phone" story come from anyway? There is no noise on the tape of Patsy banging the phone on the cradle attempting to hang it up. Her voice sounds muffled, and I'm willing to bet she was clutching the phone to her chest briefly while the part in question was recorded. I think the "trouble hanging up the phone" was just a wild guess by someone, maybe ST, and it somehow stuck as being fact.


Face it--there's no voices from the Ramsey household after Patsy hung up--

Actually Maikai Patsy's voice IS there (on the CD version) just as described. Everyone can hear it. If YOU can't, it only means that like Toth, you are either in such denial that you're not willing to admit the truth at any cost, OR the sound on your computer is piss-poor.


And this came to light, after ST found out Burke was not asleep---but faked sleeping in his bed. That's all there is to it, folks.

Wrong time sequence. The admission by the Rammers that Burke was faking sleep was long after the 911 info had been leaked and ST's book was published. This has nothing to do with ST. He was not the detective assigned to get the 911 tape enhanced. This is also not a BPD plot as you want to believe. You seem to forget that Hoffstrom from the DA's office took they tape to a completely independent lab who also heard the background voices--with just a different interpretation of what Burke was saying.

[Shylock]

Originally posted by Jayelles
Dave's version doesn't count because he did not meet the standards for forensic audio analysis. He gives no detailed discussion of his spectral analysis and it is unlcear how he analysed the waveforms.
Jayelles, I really don't know why you're so hell-bent on discrediting this guy "Dave". I read his "analysis" and for the most part I agree with it. The only problem with Dave's analysis is he made the mistake of publishing his findings based on the originally released "audio tape" version of the 911 call. Since the release of the "CD version", Dave's analysis is void and he looks somewhat the fool for jumping the gun. He's back-peddling now trying to save face but it's too late. He should have just stood back and said "Hey, wait a minute!...these recording are different...forget everything I previously wrote.".
I guess the guy has too much of an ego to admit he goofed. Of course if he DID admit the truth, he'd get booted off the forum, so he has that axe swinging over his head.

Spectrography has nothing to do with it. The two versions of the 911 tape that have been released are vastly different in length, and both have been positively edited. You don't need a visual display to know that.

[Toth]

Fool?
Save face?

He is an expert in digital signal processing and acoustics. He is an engineer and physicist. He is not a fool and performs his calculations and states his conclusions as any researcher with integrity would: he does not 'save face'.
He knows a great deal about acoustics in general as well as higher math and programming.

[Britt]

Originally posted by Shylock
...it follows the script in ST's book perfectly and the RST has denied ANY voices are there. If Patsy's voice is there, then you can be 99.9% sure John and Burke's voices are too. The Ram$eys lied...
Excellent post, Shylock. :)

[Maxi]

Boulder sent the tape to a well respected lab and got back a report that voices were heard on the tape. It's not as if the BPD enhanced it themselves in the basement of the police station. The debate shouldn't be whether or not "something" can be heard on the tape. The lab isn't likely to have been involved in some sort of strange anti-Ram conspiracy. The debate should be what that "something" is. And that debate can't occur until and unless all sides are listening to the entire tape.

[Shylock]

Originally posted by Toth
Fool?