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SheWhoMustNotBeNamed
07-22-2011, 12:49 AM
Gail Nowacki Palmgren is missing as of 4/30/11 from Signal Mountain TN.
She is driving a Jeep Rubicon, 4 door, Red, with AL license plate number "Eazy St" .
Gail is 5'8", blond hair, 135 lbs. Call Signal Mountain PD at 423-886-2124.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic3550_5.gif

WRCB TV (http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14595650)
http://wrcb.images.worldnow.com/images/14595650_BG1.JPG
http://wrcb.images.worldnow.com/images/14595650_BG2.JPG


Thread # 1 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135414&highlight=palmgren)
Thread # 2 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136407&highlight=palmgren)
Thread # 3 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136762&highlight=palmgren)
Thread # 4

Thread # 5

Thread # 6

Thread # 7

Thread # 8


Gail Nowacki Palmgren Media Links (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135941&highlight=palmgren)

Gail Nowacki Palmgren Timeline (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136222&highlight=palmgren)


Please continue here...

believe09
08-04-2011, 09:37 AM
If you have any information of tips to share please contact Hamilton County Sheriff's Criminal Investigations Division:

(423)209-8940 or (423)622-0022.

You can also submit a tip via email at:

investigations@hcsheriff.gov (investigations@hcsheriff.gov)

believe09
08-04-2011, 09:41 AM
Knock off the personal attacks. They are derailing the thread and they are not what Websleuths or this case is about. Please bring the focus back to Gail and the possible locations where she might be.


From JBean's post last night:

Time outs will be given to those that are compelled to create arguments,attack other members personally or generally create problems. Reposting a post after a mod has removed it will earn you a TO . That is the kind of work the mods don't need and does not advance the discussion.

Ignore feature is handy. Please use it.
thanks.

Oriah
08-04-2011, 10:55 AM
Thank you for reopening Gail's thread, mods.

Does anyone know if Gail routinely took her Jeep to a specific gas station or carwash?

Also, does anyone roughly know the mileage that was on the Jeep at the time Gail disappeared?

One more question- was there any damage to it at the time it disappeared- such as dings, scrapes, etc? TIA

BeanE
08-04-2011, 11:14 AM
From JBean's post last night:

Time outs will be given to those that are compelled to create arguments,attack other members personally or generally create problems.

I wasn't here last night and don't know what happened (not asking what did). I just want to make sure I understand this, so I don't get in trouble. Could a mod please explain or give an example of what is meant by creating arguments and also by generally creating problems?

Thanks

believe09
08-04-2011, 11:22 AM
Ex:

JBean- The grass is green.

Believe09- technically the grass is yellow, which is a component of green.

JBean- Ok, so we are saying the same thing.

Believe09- No we are not. I am saying the grass is yellow, and here in the copy/pasted post of yours you are saying the grass is green therefore you are wrong.

Does this help?

believe09
08-04-2011, 11:27 AM
Oriah, do you have more thoughts on locations that would be useful to focus on for SAR searches?

Oriah
08-04-2011, 11:32 AM
Believe, both you and JBean are wrong. The grass in TN is red.

Which brings me to another question... is the interior of Gail's Jeep cloth or leather?

CatFancier
08-04-2011, 11:40 AM
I spotted a four door crimson Rubicon two days ago in an Applebee's parking lot here in Gilbert, AZ. It was backed in to the parking space so I could see the wheel cover was removed but the license plate was blocked by bushes. I felt too ridiculous to go into the Applebee's to search tables for Gail but have been kicking myself since.

Has anyone other than LE tried to run the VIN to see if it is now licensed elsewhere?

BeanE
08-04-2011, 11:46 AM
Believe, both you and JBean are wrong. The grass in TN is red.

Which brings me to another question... is the interior of Gail's Jeep cloth or leather?

I've seen grass that's blue!!!

Oriah, have you gotten the mines info you were looking for a while back? I started researching, found out the mountain was built on top of an abandoned mine, and then... I got distracted :)

Want me to dig around for some more? Or did you find what you needed?

Snowbunny
08-04-2011, 11:49 AM
Oriah, a couple of weeks ago I went to the fairgrounds where I live and every dealership in my town had their vehicles there and it was the first time I ever laid eyes on a Jeep Rubicon up close and personal. I was surprised at how tiny this vehicle really is. It actually seems smaller than a Jeep Liberty in my opinion. I would suggest that everyone following this case go to a Jeep Dealership in their area and sit in a Jeep Rubicon if you've never been in one. As I sat in the vehicle I tried to imagine what I would have felt like if I had been Gail and I had two children in the vehicle and felt like I was being followed. I would have been terrified because there is not much to this vehicle. I believe Gail's vehicle was a soft top to boot. I felt like I was sitting in an old Army jeep type vehicle with a ragetop covering the roof. I didn't feel safe at all and it takes a lot to scare the heck out of me after all I've been through. If I had been driving what Gail was driving when I was being chased on mountain roads in Tennessee and when someone tried to run me off the road on several ocassions I don't think I would be here today. This is just how I felt as I sat in a Jeep Rubicon a couple of weeks ago. Don't get me wrong, the vehicle is a nice vehicle and it serves it purpose, but I remember all too well what it was like having someone chasing me and trying to run me off the road and I can tell you if I had been driving a Rubicon at the time I know I would have rolled that vehicle under the road conditions and speed I was force to drive in to get to safety.

BeanE
08-04-2011, 11:53 AM
Light a candle for Gail. Group name GailP

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=GailP

Oriah
08-04-2011, 12:50 PM
Oriah, do you have more thoughts on locations that would be useful to focus on for SAR searches?

I do, believe09.
Are you looking for locations to be searched by volunteers?

Oriah
08-04-2011, 12:54 PM
I've seen grass that's blue!!!

Oriah, have you gotten the mines info you were looking for a while back? I started researching, found out the mountain was built on top of an abandoned mine, and then... I got distracted :)

Want me to dig around for some more? Or did you find what you needed?

I did get the mine info- thank you BeanE!
The mine info can be found here:

I am currently interested in quarries.

http://www.state.tn.us/environment/wpc/programs/abandmine/

One has to dig a bit to find the coords for every location... but they are there.

Oriah
08-04-2011, 01:01 PM
Oriah, a couple of weeks ago I went to the fairgrounds where I live and every dealership in my town had their vehicles there and it was the first time I ever laid eyes on a Jeep Rubicon up close and personal. I was surprised at how tiny this vehicle really is. It actually seems smaller than a Jeep Liberty in my opinion. I would suggest that everyone following this case go to a Jeep Dealership in their area and sit in a Jeep Rubicon if you've never been in one. As I sat in the vehicle I tried to imagine what I would have felt like if I had been Gail and I had two children in the vehicle and felt like I was being followed. I would have been terrified because there is not much to this vehicle. I believe Gail's vehicle was a soft top to boot. I felt like I was sitting in an old Army jeep type vehicle with a ragetop covering the roof. I didn't feel safe at all and it takes a lot to scare the heck out of me after all I've been through. If I had been driving what Gail was driving when I was being chased on mountain roads in Tennessee and when someone tried to run me off the road on several ocassions I don't think I would be here today. This is just how I felt as I sat in a Jeep Rubicon a couple of weeks ago. Don't get me wrong, the vehicle is a nice vehicle and it serves it purpose, but I remember all too well what it was like having someone chasing me and trying to run me off the road and I can tell you if I had been driving a Rubicon at the time I know I would have rolled that vehicle under the road conditions and speed I was force to drive in to get to safety.

BBM: That's an excellent suggestion, Snowbunny.

I'd like to return to my post awhile back about the possible lack of a top on the Jeep.

Does anyone know where the hardtop for the Jeep is currently?

Oriah
08-04-2011, 01:08 PM
I spotted a four door crimson Rubicon two days ago in an Applebee's parking lot here in Gilbert, AZ. It was backed in to the parking space so I could see the wheel cover was removed but the license plate was blocked by bushes. I felt too ridiculous to go into the Applebee's to search tables for Gail but have been kicking myself since.

Has anyone other than LE tried to run the VIN to see if it is now licensed elsewhere?

I ran the vin. Came back with nothing. But search tables, jwpmoyer!! Don't feel foolish!

Another thing people can do is print out a few posters and whenever they see a Rubicon, put one up at that location. Helps with car enthusiasts, to get the word out there.

Snowbunny
08-04-2011, 01:16 PM
Oriah, if you have the VIN for Gail's vehicle did you run a carfax on it? It would show if there was any maintenance done on the vehicle.

Oriah
08-04-2011, 01:47 PM
Oriah, if you have the VIN for Gail's vehicle did you run a carfax on it? It would show if there was any maintenance done on the vehicle.

Shows maintenance, odometer, prior bodywork etc... but all from last date serviced. I'd like to know beyond that.

believe09
08-04-2011, 01:47 PM
What a great idea, Snowbunny.

Snowbunny
08-04-2011, 02:16 PM
Shows maintenance, odometer, prior bodywork etc... but all from last date serviced. I'd like to know beyond that.

I was hoping that if the vehicle was still in commission that maybe someone had taken the vehicle in for servicing since Gail went missing and it might have given us a lead. It would have shown also if the vehicle had changed hands if it had been sold or turned over into someone else's name.

Snowbunny
08-04-2011, 02:22 PM
When I get a chance to talk to my daughter I will ask her what other identifying things we can look for that might be able to give us a lead. My daughter is a mechanic and an assistant manager for a auto part store. She's the one who said to run the carfax.

Oriah
08-04-2011, 02:22 PM
What I would actually really like to know is whether or not Gail, her Jeep, AND her cell phone were all in the same place- at the same time- noted as the 'last' ping in earlier threads.

Also- I'd like to know if Gail frequently carried cash on her?

And- where did she last fill up on gas? I asked that awhile ago, but didn't get much response... I think that would be a great location for a poster.

TIA if anyone has an idea about these things.

Snowbunny
08-04-2011, 02:28 PM
Another thing a person could do is check the salvage yards around the area or the local newspaper to see if someone is selling used auto parts for a Rubicon. Craigslist is another way they sell auto parts or the shoppersnews. Ebay is another way they get rid of car parts.

Snowbunny
08-04-2011, 02:31 PM
We have a place where I live that sells repairables as in vehicles.

Snowbunny
08-04-2011, 02:33 PM
Has anybody put up a flier at your local Walmart store? They usually have a case hanging on the wall right at the front entrance of the store or at least up here they do.

Snowbunny
08-04-2011, 02:41 PM
I just checked Craigslist for Chattanooga, TN, and someone is selling a set of tires from a 2010 Rubicon.

http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/search/pts?query=2010+rubicon&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=

Emeralgem
08-04-2011, 02:46 PM
What I would actually really like to know is whether or not Gail, her Jeep, AND her cell phone were all in the same place- at the same time- noted as the 'last' ping in earlier threads.

Also- I'd like to know if Gail frequently carried cash on her?

And- where did she last fill up on gas? I asked that awhile ago, but didn't get much response... I think that would be a great location for a poster.
TIA advance if anyone has an idea about these things.


The first five are listed as being on the mtn on Taft Hwy.. I've never purchased gas on the mtn... There are also quite a few places to purchase gas on Signal Mtn Blvd..


http://m.yp.com/signal-mountain-tn/gas-stations

Emeralgem
08-04-2011, 02:54 PM
I just checked Craigslist for Chattanooga, TN, and someone is selling a set of tires from a 2010 Rubicon.

http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/search/pts?query=2010+rubicon&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=

Is Gail's Rubicon a 2010?

IF it is, someone needs to call HCSO. They need to investigate where those tires came from..JMHO

Oriah
08-04-2011, 02:59 PM
The first five are listed as being on the mtn on Taft Hwy.. I've never purchased gas on the mtn... There are also quite a few places to purchase gas on Signal Mtn Blvd..


http://m.yp.com/signal-mountain-tn/gas-stations

Thank you, EM. Do we know what credit cards specifically were left at the SM home? Do we know if the Palmgrens had a gas card acct- such as a Shell rewards card or similar?

Oriah
08-04-2011, 03:01 PM
Is Gail's Rubicon a 2010?

IF it is, someone needs to call HCSO. They need to investigate where those tires came from..JMHO

Gail's Rubicon is a 2010.

Emeralgem
08-04-2011, 03:04 PM
Thank you, EM. Do we know what credit cards specifically were left at the SM home? Do we know if the Palmgrens had a gas card acct- such as a Shell rewards card or similar?

Don't have a clue. LE has stated her cards have not been used so I would think they have that information and are checking... JMHO

Oriah
08-04-2011, 03:06 PM
I just checked Craigslist for Chattanooga, TN, and someone is selling a set of tires from a 2010 Rubicon.

http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/search/pts?query=2010+rubicon&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=
So...who wants to email the seller and ask for the serial numbers on the tires? Ack. If anyone does, please do not give out any personal information.

Emeralgem
08-04-2011, 03:08 PM
Gail's Rubicon is a 2010.

Well, IMO someone needs to report that information to HCSO...JMHO

Emeralgem
08-04-2011, 03:11 PM
So...who wants to email the seller and ask for the serial numbers on the tires? Ack. If anyone does, please do not give out any personal information.

IMO..We need to call HCSO and let them ask for the serial numbers on those tires...

believe09
08-04-2011, 03:13 PM
I just checked Craigslist for Chattanooga, TN, and someone is selling a set of tires from a 2010 Rubicon.

http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/search/pts?query=2010+rubicon&srchType=A&minAsk=&maxAsk=


Is Gail's Rubicon a 2010?

IF it is, someone needs to call HCSO. They need to investigate where those tires came from..JMHO


Well, IMO someone needs to report that information to HCSO...JMHO


Done.

Oriah
08-04-2011, 03:22 PM
Done.

Thank you, believe09. I'm sending you a third beagle. ;)

Emeralgem
08-04-2011, 03:28 PM
Contact number for tires (rims included) is...
(714) xxx-xxxx

Isn't that a California area code?

Oriah
08-04-2011, 03:35 PM
Contact number for tires (rims included) is...
(714) xxx-xxxx

Isn't that a California area code?

Yes, it is.

Some1Nose
08-04-2011, 03:35 PM
Contact number for tires (rims included) is...
(714)xxx -xxxx

Isn't that a California area code?

Yes it is...in the Santa Ana area of Southern California.

glorias
08-04-2011, 04:03 PM
Another thing a person could do is check the salvage yards around the area or the local newspaper to see if someone is selling used auto parts for a Rubicon. Craigslist is another way they sell auto parts or the shoppersnews. Ebay is another way they get rid of car parts.

For what it's worth, fireflylink has said she runs the VIN weekly to see if it turns up. Also, I have been checking eBay and Craigslist for fireflylink's VIN project. I don't know if anything I found has been useful or not, but I have reported things and sent out a lot of emails to dealerships.

You would be surprised how much stuff from 2010 Rubicons is being sold, both parts and whole cars.

BeanE
08-04-2011, 04:03 PM
@calliestarnes Callie Starnes

UPDATE: Authorities to likely complete their search of Matthew Palmgren's properties next week, w/ 2 homes in AL.

6 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/#!/calliestarnes/status/99207029083742208


ETA: Isn't one property Gail's and the other both Gail's and Matt's?

Emeralgem
08-04-2011, 04:07 PM
Yes it is...in the Santa Ana area of Southern California.


Interesting.. A California area code but looking for buyers in this area..

hollyblue
08-04-2011, 04:07 PM
This would be a good way to spread the word about GP. This huge annual yard sale event attracts thousands of people from other states...as well as the ones participating. Many people will take off work for 600+ mile drive. Twitters?
US 27 yard sale this weekend across 5 states

Posted: Aug 04, 2011 5:39 AM MDT Updated: Aug 04, 2011 5:40 AM MDT
The sale was the brainchild of Mike Walker, the Fentress County, Tenn., Executive in 1987. The route has grown over the years and now begins in the north at Hudson, Mich., running south on U.S. 27 through Ohio, Kentucky and Tennessee before switching to the Lookout Mountain Parkway in Chattanooga and continuing to Gadsden, Ala.


http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/15207575/us-27-yard-sale-this-weekend-across-5-states

hollyblue
08-04-2011, 04:14 PM
Would be a good way to pass flyers along....much like a chain if anyone local is going. imo

glorias
08-04-2011, 04:21 PM
Interesting.. A California area code but looking for buyers in this area..

Could be someone who has moved to the Chattanooga area but still has their old California-area cell phone number.

Snowbunny
08-04-2011, 04:25 PM
Could be someone who has moved to the Chattanooga area but still has their old California-area cell phone number.

I also notice that the tires were listed on Craigslist 6/22/11.

Snowbunny
08-04-2011, 04:38 PM
Those tires probably go with this vehicle. I just found this listing on Craigslist again the a CA phone number:



http://nashville.craigslist.org/cto/2514691862.html

Snowbunny
08-04-2011, 04:43 PM
What I found strange about this 2010 Rubicon is the tires are listed under Chattanooga and the vehicle is listed under Clarksville but the phone numbers are the same.

glorias
08-04-2011, 04:49 PM
What I found strange about this 2010 Rubicon is the tires are listed under Chattanooga and the vehicle is listed under Clarksville but the phone numbers are the same.

According to the White Pages, it's a cell, not a landline. It could be a student who lives in CA but is home in TN over summer break for all we know. I don't personally find the phone number suspicious in the least.

Snowbunny
08-04-2011, 04:52 PM
According to the White Pages, it's a cell, not a landline. It could be a student who lives in CA but is home in TN over summer break for all we know. I don't personally find the phone number suspicious in the least.

I understand what you are saying but I found it strange that the vehicle is listed on the Clarksville Craigslist, while the tires and rims are listed under the Chattanooga Craigslist. I didn't find the phone number suspicious at all.

believe09
08-04-2011, 05:44 PM
Thank you, believe09. I'm sending you a third beagle. ;)

Good-each of my cats will have someone to play with. :floorlaugh:

believe09
08-04-2011, 05:45 PM
Contact number for tires (rims included) is...
(714) xxx-xxxx

Isn't that a California area code?


Cell phone?

believe09
08-04-2011, 05:50 PM
I edited the numbers out from the CL listing just in case the person who owns it doesnt appreciate the appearance of it outside of CL.

Emeralgem
08-04-2011, 05:58 PM
What I found strange about this 2010 Rubicon is the tires are listed under Chattanooga and the vehicle is listed under Clarksville but the phone numbers are the same.

Clarksville is close to the Kentucky border..About three hours away from Chattanooga

http://mapq.st/qVGF6C

Emeralgem
08-04-2011, 06:03 PM
I edited the numbers out from the CL listing just in case the person who owns it doesnt appreciate the appearance of it outside of CL.

Thank you believe.. I should have known better than to post the entire number...

glorias
08-04-2011, 06:10 PM
I hope I'm not butting in here, but I have a couple of suggestions:

Spending all your time on just one listing is not very time efficient, IMO. With this particular listing, it shows a bumper I don't think Gail's Jeep had, also off road tires and a different paint job. Plus it was listed in June, two months after Gail disappeared, yet still in the same area. (If they had 2 months and took the time to paint the Jeep, wouldn't they drive it somewhere else to sell it? Just my two cents on that.) My personal opinion is that this is just some guy selling his Jeep who has listed it in multiple towns to get more coverage on Craigslist.

That said, it NEVER hurts to check. If you think it's suspicious, you might want to let fireflylink know since she has a specific email set up for reports of vehicles like this. She's working with HCSO if I recall correctly. Then LE can take it from there, and you can move on to the next Jeep in the listings. There's always a few of them out there, especially from dealerships. The Rubicon is a popular Jeep -- frankly, the more listings I see, the more *I* want one.

Just wanted to put that out there. Again, I hope I'm not butting in.

Oriah
08-04-2011, 06:46 PM
Up thread there was some discussion of mines in TN.

This is a pretty decent list with coordinates:
http://www.brainygeography.com/types/TN.mine.html

glorias
08-04-2011, 09:07 PM
I would like to go back to address some of the questions that were coming up in the previous thread. Mixed in with whatever caused trouble over there, which I did not see, is an issue that I think it important. Credibility of the players. If we are assuming pure motives of people who don’t have them, we’ve got a roadblock we will never get over. I don’t have the answers, but I sure do have a lot of skepticism of people I used to believe were nothing but sincere.

In my opinion, it seems as though people have decided for themselves on who they give credence to, which is completely within their right to do so.

And quite frankly, I think a sort of war has developed between two camps, each trying to prove that they're the "real" and "sincere" ones doing good work while the other camp is interfering with the investigation and screwing everything up.

Maybe I'm the only one who sees this? I don't know. It worries me. Personally, I think it's the underlying, unspoken tension from that tug-of-war between the two camps that we've been feeling here on WS for weeks now.

As for people who aren't sincere or who are causing problems, personally I believe law enforcement surely knows what they're doing. They can weed out the opportunists, cranks, and attention-getters IF there are any. Just my two cents.

JBean
08-04-2011, 09:09 PM
Part of the reason the last thread was closed was because this very issue became personal and destructive.

You all can believe whomever you choose based on info that is available. let's move on.

JBean
08-04-2011, 09:26 PM
In my opinion, it seems as though people have decided for themselves on who they give credence to, which is completely within their right to do so.

And quite frankly, I think a sort of war has developed between two camps, each trying to prove that they're the "real" and "sincere" ones doing good work while the other camp is interfering with the investigation and screwing everything up.

Maybe I'm the only one who sees this? I don't know. It worries me. Personally, I think it's the underlying, unspoken tension from that tug-of-war between the two camps that we've been feeling here on WS for weeks now.

As for people who aren't sincere or who are causing problems, personally I believe law enforcement surely knows what they're doing. They can weed out the opportunists, cranks, and attention-getters IF there are any. Just my two cents.Glorias it is not at all unusual for "forum wars" to erupt during emotional cases which is most all of them. There are often more than 2 camps.they may go against each other or sometimes 2 band together and fight one and then those splinter off into groups that war with each other. I have been through some doozies. People get banned start new forums, resurrect the carp and it goes on f-o-r-e-v-e-r.

But we just aren't going to do it here. IT will continue to go on as long as there is public discussion and people have different points of view, but we don't need to perpetuate the issues here.
The hope here is that instead of everyone getting caught up in the arguments, that we all mull over ideas, share information that is free to post and have some discussion. Debates and arguments will happen, that's ok.
But when the camps are more about themselves than about the missing or murdered it is just not a good situation.


We will all never agree on who is or isn't credible it just cannot and will not happen. So rather than chasing our tails about issues that can never be resolved we need to move past it, agree to disagree and find other places to focus energy.

Thanks for letting me springboard off your post, you are right in much of what you say.

Irish_Eyes
08-04-2011, 11:57 PM
We will all never agree on who is or isn't credible it just cannot and will not happen.


(snipped by me)

I agree that right now that's true, but I hope it's not always true, because that means we'll never know what happened to Gail! Whether it's because LE has a break in the case, or Gail comes waltzing in the door tomorrow, I have to believe that one day, we'll all be more of the same mind.

hollyblue
08-05-2011, 01:45 AM
Good-each of my cats will have someone to play with. :floorlaugh:

Can I send over this group of very intelligent fleas? Promise they would keep the dogs and cats jumpin'. :rocker:

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=37617

Montjoy
08-05-2011, 02:28 AM
In my opinion, it seems as though people have decided for themselves on who they give credence to, which is completely within their right to do so.

And quite frankly, I think a sort of war has developed between two camps, each trying to prove that they're the "real" and "sincere" ones doing good work while the other camp is interfering with the investigation and screwing everything up.

Maybe I'm the only one who sees this? I don't know. It worries me. Personally, I think it's the underlying, unspoken tension from that tug-of-war between the two camps that we've been feeling here on WS for weeks now.

As for people who aren't sincere or who are causing problems, personally I believe law enforcement surely knows what they're doing. They can weed out the opportunists, cranks, and attention-getters IF there are any. Just my two cents.

This is a superb post that gets to the marrow of what most of us seek when sleuthing cases here. And with respect to Gail, I have to hope that, should there be multiple camps, all are still hoping to find Gail.

We hear it so often, and it should never be a rallying cry for passivity, but the fact is that the truth will out. I want to think that every genuine offering here is a step to that goal. The rest will be sorted out of the mix.

Some1Nose
08-05-2011, 05:05 AM
Yes, it is.

LOL...we said the same thing at the same time!

Some1Nose
08-05-2011, 06:32 AM
What I would actually really like to know is whether or not Gail, her Jeep, AND her cell phone were all in the same place- at the same time- noted as the 'last' ping in earlier threads.

And- where did she last fill up on gas? I asked that awhile ago, but didn't get much response... I think that would be a great location for a poster.

TIA if anyone has an idea about these things.
(snipped by me)

Oriah - There was a post on the Jeep Thread wherein the poster thought they may have seen Gail the morning of 4/30 in or near B'ham, AL. At first, I thought they were saying that they saw Gail at a gas station when they were filling-up, but after re-reading their post, I'm not sure?!

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6925676&postcount=51

Is the Jeep Rubicon stick or automatic? I was reading that the automatic Rubicon's fuel tank holds 22.5 gallons (stick shift, a little smaller tank), if Gail did, in fact, fill-up near B'ham, AL before driving the approx. 157 miles to her home in Signal Mountain, TN, she still would have had plently of fuel left upon arriving home. According to what I read, the 2010 Jeep Rubicon averages about 19 mpg on the highway which means she would have used a little over 8 gallons from B'ham to SM. (That is if she got gas in B'ham...).

I agree, leaving flyers at near-by gas stations would be a good idea, as well as, other local businesses that Gail was likely to visit. May have already been done, though?


Do you know how many cell phone towers are in the vicinity of the last ping? Not sure if this was already covered? I noticed on Google Earth that the SM/Chatt Walmart, Suck Creek, and Mtn Creek Apts are all within close proximity to the last ping. Must be why LE searched Suck Creek...wish they had done a more extensive search of that waterway, etc.

As Always, IMOO!

Oriah
08-05-2011, 09:06 AM
Respectfully snipped:

<Do you know how many cell phone towers are in the vicinity of the last ping? Not sure if this was already covered? I noticed on Google Earth that the SM/Chatt Walmart, Suck Creek, and Mtn Creek Apts are all within close proximity to the last ping. Must be why LE searched Suck Creek...wish they had done a more extensive search of that waterway, etc.>

Hi Some1- it has been discussed, but let's bring it up again because there has been much debate concerning the pings.
Here is a good resource (with coords):

http://www.city-data.com/towers/cell-Signal-Mountain-Tennessee.html
http://www.city-data.com/towers/cell-Chattanooga-Tennessee.html

But please note that all towers may not be registered with the FCC... *sigh.*

Emeralgem
08-05-2011, 09:06 AM
So Callie Starnes is tweeting...
Authorities to likely complete their search of Matthew Palmgren's properties next week, w/ 2 homes in AL.


Nothing like announcing you're coming in order to give someone a heads-up..JMHO
And three months after the fact to boot... Geez...IMO..Ya think maybe time is on his side?JMHOOTS

believe09
08-05-2011, 09:07 AM
Can I send over this group of very intelligent fleas? Promise they would keep the dogs and cats jumpin'. :rocker:

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=37617

LOL-absolutely NOT. :)

Oriah
08-05-2011, 09:34 AM
LOL-absolutely NOT. :)

believe09, the :beagle: 's come with Frontline, so it would definately be a bad idea to have such talented fleas around them.

And speaking of fleas- does anyone know who the Palmgrens' veterinarian(s) are?

Snowbunny
08-05-2011, 10:06 AM
So Callie Starnes is tweeting...
Authorities to likely complete their search of Matthew Palmgren's properties next week, w/ 2 homes in AL.


Nothing like announcing you're coming in order to give someone a heads-up..JMHO
And three months after the fact to boot... Geez...IMO..Ya think maybe time is on his side?JMHOOTS

Em, LE may have had Callie announce this on purpose and they may be just sitting back watching if anyone removes anything from those two properties in the meantime.

Oriah
08-05-2011, 10:26 AM
Em, LE may have had Callie announce this on purpose and they may be just sitting back watching if anyone removes anything from those two properties in the meantime.

I know what you're saying Snowbunny... but that seems like it would be a really bad idea for LE, should evidence of a crime having been committed become a possibility.

Moo, of course. I just haven't seen a lot of that unless LE is very prepared to make an arrest- such as a sting. But LE doesn't tend to leave that info release up to reporters, kwim? Way too much possibility of contamination.

Irish_Eyes
08-05-2011, 11:21 AM
But the searches of MP's properties are consent searches, so without a warrant they may have HAD to let MP know when they were coming? Otherwise, is it really consensual?

Oriah
08-05-2011, 11:35 AM
But the searches of MP's properties are consent searches, so without a warrant they may have HAD to let MP know when they were coming? Otherwise, is it really consensual?

You know, this has been bugging me for a little while.

Not all of the properties being searched are Matt's AND Gail's. Is that correct?

The AL home that is in Gail's name only and is vacant... can Matt consent to a search of that property legally, because the Palmgrens are married?

I guess that's a question for a verified attorney.

But I've been on consent property searches before- and it usually has to be with consent of the owner. :waitasec:

Is all property considered joint in TN? I'll have to check this out.

believe09
08-05-2011, 11:49 AM
I look at the searches as due diligence on the part of LE. If they didnt have probable cause to obtain a warrant, yet they still need to clear the properties, this is the best they have to work with.

I am sure they are just a frustrated, but they cant NOT search at all. And there is much they could still find, fwiw. Sometimes the things you dont find speak just as loudly as the things you do. JMO.

Oriah
08-05-2011, 12:36 PM
I look at the searches as due diligence on the part of LE. If they didnt have probable cause to obtain a warrant, yet they still need to clear the properties, this is the best they have to work with.

I am sure they are just a frustrated, but they cant NOT search at all. And there is much they could still find, fwiw. Sometimes the things you dont find speak just as loudly as the things you do. JMO.

I agree, believe09. But you'd have to have an excellent idea of what was there to begin with to determine what is missing, kwim? That said- it sure wouldn't be the first time someone forgot a little detail or two.

Anyhoo- I think I answered my own question about property ownership in TN:

<Tennessee recognizes the following types of ownership: tenancy in common, joint tenancy and tenancy by entirety, but not community property. A grant of ownership of real estate to two or more persons is presumed to create a tenancy in common, unless expressly stated otherwise including a statement of a right of survivorship. Tennessee Code §66-1-102 >

Emeralgem
08-05-2011, 12:40 PM
Do we know where MP was on the evening of the 29th and who he may have been with after Gail left for Alabama? Also, do we know where he was on the afternoon/evening of the 30th after he supposedly returned home from his mother's residence? Does anyone have this information? Has it been revealed?

glorias
08-05-2011, 04:46 PM
I don't think it's been revealed, Emeralgem. I'd love to know where Matt was on those days, too.

Pearl*
08-05-2011, 08:39 PM
Part of the reason the last thread was closed was because this very issue became personal and destructive.

You all can believe whomever you choose based on info that is available. let's move on.

It appears to me that when I made my post, I stepped into the deep end of the pool without realizing it. As I said in my post, I don't know what all happened the night before, causing the thread to be closed. I haven't been on here as much lately. I see that now as all the more reason I should not have posted.

When this follow-up post from JBean (quoted here) came up, I immediately deleted my post and dropped the subject, and I won't bring it up again. I'm concerned about the perception that I was trying to bring conflict to the thread. That was not my intent.

I really want everything to be okay, not only for Gail, but also between all the people who have worked so hard on this case. I have invested a lot of time in it, and I think many other people on here have done that too. And my guess is that probably is a big contributor to the frustration that seems to have been boiling over. We've worked very hard, and still Gail is missing.

Yes, eventually the various truths will come out, and hopefully we can move toward it without continuing to hurt each other. I really want that.

Emeralgem
08-05-2011, 09:50 PM
It appears to me that when I made my post, I stepped into the deep end of the pool without realizing it. As I said in my post, I don't know what all happened the night before, causing the thread to be closed. I haven't been on here as much lately. I see that now as all the more reason I should not have posted.

When this follow-up post from JBean (quoted here) came up, I immediately deleted my post and dropped the subject, and I won't bring it up again. I'm concerned about the perception that I was trying to bring conflict to the thread. That was not my intent.

I really want everything to be okay, not only for Gail, but also between all the people who have worked so hard on this case. I have invested a lot of time in it, and I think many other people on here have done that too. And my guess is that probably is a big contributor to the frustration that seems to have been boiling over. We've worked very hard, and still Gail is missing.

Yes, eventually the various truths will come out, and hopefully we can move toward it without continuing to hurt each other. I really want that.

Thank you... I appreciate your concerns and your hope for unity concerning ALL in our quest to find out what has really happened to Gail...JMHO

Kimster
08-05-2011, 09:53 PM
PLEASE READ

Please use initials when discussing the people involved in this case.

:tyou:

glorias
08-05-2011, 10:16 PM
Thanks Kimster. Quick question: Should we use initials for GP, too? Just wondering if the missing person is an exception since her name is on the subject line of the threads.

Irish_Eyes
08-06-2011, 12:32 AM
Not to be weird or anything, but this whole time I've been keeping my eyes peeled for Jeeps...Gail's jeep really, but that tends to make me notice every jeep I see. Suddenly in the past two days I've seen two different jeeps with the "Life is Good" wheel cover. I know it's probably a popular accessory, but I haven't seen even one on a jeep at all, and suddenly two in two days. (Relax, they weren't red and they weren't TN plates :))
After I saw the second one today I just said please let this be a sign!!

Emeralgem
08-06-2011, 01:08 AM
Not to be weird or anything, but this whole time I've been keeping my eyes peeled for Jeeps...Gail's jeep really, but that tends to make me notice every jeep I see. Suddenly in the past two days I've seen two different jeeps with the "Life is Good" wheel cover. I know it's probably a popular accessory, but I haven't seen even one on a jeep at all, and suddenly two in two days. (Relax, they weren't red and they weren't TN plates :))
After I saw the second one today I just said please let this be a sign!!

I notice every jeep I see too...BTW.. Didn't Gail's jeep have Alabama plates? JMHO

BeanE
08-06-2011, 01:23 AM
PLEASE READ

Please use initials when discussing the people involved in this case.

:tyou:

Is it no longer permitted to use first names as well?

TIA

Oriah
08-06-2011, 08:36 AM
I notice every jeep I see too...BTW.. Didn't Gail's jeep have Alabama plates? JMHO

Yes, GP's Jeep had AL plates when she disappeared.

believe09
08-06-2011, 09:09 AM
Technically, anyone who has been named in MSM as a player in the case can be named here fully. For consistency sake if we are using initials for some, we should probably use initials for others.

As for Gail, her name can for sure be used because it is easier and customary here at WS to use the MP or vic's full name.

BeanE
08-06-2011, 09:44 AM
Technically, anyone who has been named in MSM as a player in the case can be named here fully. For consistency sake if we are using initials for some, we should probably use initials for others.

As for Gail, her name can for sure be used because it is easier and customary here at WS to use the MP or vic's full name.

Okay, I just have problems with the initials across all the cases remembering who they stand for. e.g., we have a TH in this case and a TH in Kyron's case.

I use first names because I can't always readily remember when I'm posting what people's last name is.

My memory problem. I'll deal.

Emeralgem
08-06-2011, 01:24 PM
IMO..Some of the main reasons a spouse "disappears" in cases like this is
1. Money
2. Property
3. Control of the Kids
4. Affairs

Considering everything that has come to light concerning his underhanded actions, and his non action concerning his wife's disappearance, I can't imagine LE not thinking MP is involved in Gail's disappearance...
JMHO..

Emeralgem
08-06-2011, 09:06 PM
:twocents:Wow...too bad GP's thread has gone so quiet. I am sure that will make some people very happy though. <modsnip>

BBM.. Doesn't make me happy.. All we can do right now is keep posting.. Hopefully there will be a break in the case soon.......One thing for certain this case needs more national media attention...
I do agree with S O'R... MP wants everyone to take for granted everything he has stated, without questioning it. And I agree for this reason alone, everything he has stated should be questioned. IMO...
He needs to be questioned extensively, as does TH.....I hope LE cares enough to find a way to make that happen eventhough they have both lawyered up...Seems to me BCBS would be a good start......The company could/should bring charges against both of them.. JMHO.

Pearl*
08-06-2011, 09:45 PM
Was the analysis done via the transcript I typed up? If so, there was at least one mistake: "Yell if you hear us" should have been "Gail, if you hear us." Entirely my fault.

Glorias, I think everybody on here appreciates your transcriptions. I know I do. I did a small piece one time and thought I'd go :nuts: by the time I finished! I had no idea how hard it was before that.

I heard the video on this one myself when the clip aired. It DID sound like "yell" on the first take. I would think a few mistakes are normal on that kind of thing. Maybe MP will articulate a bit more clearly next time!

Emeralgem
08-06-2011, 10:07 PM
Glorias, I think everybody on here appreciates your transcriptions. I know I do. I did a small piece one time and thought I'd go :nuts: by the time I finished! I had no idea how hard it was before that.

I heard the video on this one myself when the clip aired. It DID sound like "yell" on the first take. I would think a few mistakes are normal on that kind of thing. Maybe MP will articulate a bit more clearly next time!

I doubt there will be a next time... Can't see his lawyers allowing him to say too much of anything...JMHO

Pearl*
08-06-2011, 10:17 PM
I doubt there will be a next time... Can't see his lawyers allowing him to say too much of anything...JMHO

I agree. Unless he is accompanied by his lawyer. I think that would probably be smart of him! And probably even smarter to let the lawyer do the talking...

Kimster
08-06-2011, 10:17 PM
If a link on WS goes ******, that means the site and information on the site is not allowed on WS for some reason. I have removed posts pertaining to an unapproved site.

glorias
08-06-2011, 10:29 PM
I also doubt there will be a next time. He doesn't seem keen to talk, which is his right of course.

The "yell if you hear us" does make MP sound casual, maybe even flippant, and since this is being analyzed I figured I should clear up the mistake. When I thought it was just being copied on other sites I didn't worry about it, but analyzed is a whole different story.

It is really quiet around here but honestly, there isn't much new info to talk about. I just keep reminding myself of the case I briefly mentioned here once before: A man I knew was accused of murdering his ex-wife. For months he was free while there were nothing but rumors, not even news articles, when suddenly he was pulled over on the way to work and arrested. No one knew it was coming because the investigation was under wraps. So it took a long time, but the culprit was eventually apprehended. If there is a culprit here, then maybe there is still hope.

Pearl*
08-06-2011, 10:53 PM
So yes there are a couple of people who were doing a lot of talking and agree with them or disagree with them is our choice, but one thing I feel is that without their voices out their Gail’s name would be just a whisper in the past.


I think that's the "million dollar question" right now. The big unknown is the question of what kind of investigation is going on behind the scenes. If the investigation is very active but working in stealth mode, then the people doing so much talking may or may not be helping. They could even be spinning their wheels and going nowhere.

However, if LE is "sleeping on the job" without the prodding of the talkers, then they are indeed doing a good thing.

And I don't think anybody knows the answer to that right now, and that's been a source of a lot of the controversy as the frustration level has gone up in this case. Just my opinion.

hollyblue
08-06-2011, 11:22 PM
I don't think it's been revealed, Emeralgem. I'd love to know where Matt was on those days, too.

Wasn't something mentioned that he took the kids to a ballgame on Saturday night, the 30th?

carolinagirl56
08-06-2011, 11:29 PM
Wasn't something mentioned that he took the kids to a ballgame on Saturday night, the 30th?

Yes. The game was tied to the kids elementary school.

hollyblue
08-06-2011, 11:37 PM
IMO..Some of the main reasons a spouse "disappears" in cases like this is
1. Money
2. Property
3. Control of the Kids
4. Affairs

Considering everything that has come to light concerning his underhanded actions, and his non action concerning his wife's disappearance, I can't imagine LE not thinking MP is involved in Gail's disappearance...
JMHO..

5. Someone who has substance abuse problems and causes chaos for the family.

6. Someone who tries to control the other. Psychologically/emotionally or financially.

Both of these could involve your four. imo

Kimster
08-06-2011, 11:40 PM
I've had a couple of PMs about what I removed. It's the statement analysis that is not allowed on WS. You can tell when you try to link a site and it goes ******* that it is not allowed. Hope that helps.

Emeralgem
08-06-2011, 11:45 PM
I think that's the "million dollar question" right now. The big unknown is the question of what kind of investigation is going on behind the scenes. If the investigation is very active but working in stealth mode, then the people doing so much talking may or may not be helping. They could even be spinning their wheels and going nowhere.

However, if LE is "sleeping on the job" without the prodding of the talkers, then they are indeed doing a good thing. And I don't think anybody knows the answer to that right now, and that's been a source of a lot of the controversy as the frustration level has gone up in this case. Just my opinion.

How can "sleeping on the job" be a good thing considering two children don't have a clue as to what has happened to their mother?

Also, I was under the impression there is a thread in the parking lot to discuss what goes on behind the scene with FB pages and their players...Am I wrong in my assumption?

confused
08-06-2011, 11:54 PM
How can "sleeping on the job" be a good thing considering two children don't have a clue as to what has happened to their mother?

Also, I was under the impression there is a thread in the parking lot to discuss what goes on behind the scene with FB pages and their players...Am I wrong in my assumption?

I think you misread...Pearl said if the LE were sleeping on the job, then the non-stop talkers are doing a good thing-not the LE.

There is a thread in the Parking Lot, BUT it has been closed for a while, I guess you are both right and wrong on the assumption. Maybe the mods will reopen it soon!:seeya:

hollyblue
08-06-2011, 11:59 PM
But the searches of MP's properties are consent searches, so without a warrant they may have HAD to let MP know when they were coming? Otherwise, is it really consensual?

I believe it was Sleuthy who said the PI was seen taking boxes out of the AL and SM home around the time of the press conference. (May 17th & 19th) So how does that fit in with the chain of possession of evidence? Then later D&H admitted they had possession of the computers....this was prolly some of what the boxes contained. IMO

Sleuthy1
08-07-2011, 12:11 AM
:twocents:Yes...It was me that posted that information about MM removing boxes from both homes on the dates you mentioned above and yes there are witnesses to their removal, in both states.:twocents:






http://www.facebook.com/BRINGGAILNOWACKIPALMGRENHOMENOW

hollyblue
08-07-2011, 12:28 AM
:twocents:Yes...It was me that posted that information about MM removing boxes from both homes on the dates you mentioned above and yes there are witnesses to their removal, in both states.:twocents:


I hope someone took pictures...

Sleuthy1, do you know when exactly CC made the call of sightings to LE? (Date?) Did she call CB before she talked to LE in SM? Thanks.

ETA: I had to delete my first post because of quote problem.

Sleuthy1
08-07-2011, 01:02 AM
http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203258.asp

Witness Says She Saw Gail Palmgren On Remote Signal Trail At Time She Disappeared
Says She Looked "Like Deer In The Headlights;" Had Female Passenger Who Kept Looking Away
posted in The Chattanoogan.com on June 13, 2011

C.C.'s STORY -----><snip>She said, "We talked about it all the way home - how unusual it was to see a nice new Jeep like that on that rough trail and how strange she was acting."
Ms. Coppinger said a few days later she saw a picture of Ms. Palmgren on TV and she recognized her as the woman in the Jeep on the trail. She said, "When I saw her picture on TV I knew it was her. I would just about bet my life it was. It was the same model car - the same everything."
She said at first she thought it was just a domestic situation, but she later decided to call the Sequatchie County Sheriff's Office. She said there was no return call. She then called an officer she knows there and he contacted the Signal Mountain Police.
Ms. Coppinger said she gave a phone interview to a Signal Mountain detective. Then last Wednesday she took a Signal Mountain detective and two county detectives to Big Fork Road. She showed them the first two places they had seen the Jeep, then took them to Insurance Bluff and the spot at the bottom of the hill where she saw it last.
She said the detectives checked out the bottom of Insurance Bluff and found some dead dogs and old cars, but no sign of Gail Palmgren or the red Jeep Rubicon.
<snip>

The alleged sighting(s) x3 took place on Saturday April 30th 2011 between 4 & 6:30pm EST (estimate) on the Big Fork Trails

hollyblue
08-07-2011, 01:29 AM
Thanks Sleuthy1, good recap, but it doesn't answer my question. That article was a month and a half after the sighting. My concern is when did she first call LE...and then finally talk to SMPD or SMPD/HCSO. I'm wondering why if CC called in the tip...say a few days after or a week...why didn't LE release this info to the media sooner. There are many things with this sighting and the info given/not given that make me scratch my head. No description of the other pick up truck, yet, she states she hopes they will come forward.... nor does the reporter ask. LE didn't even give that area a looksee until the week prior to this article. The Wed before....6/8, I believe. TY imo

Some1Nose
08-07-2011, 04:01 AM
Respectfully snipped:

<Do you know how many cell phone towers are in the vicinity of the last ping? Not sure if this was already covered? I noticed on Google Earth that the SM/Chatt Walmart, Suck Creek, and Mtn Creek Apts are all within close proximity to the last ping. Must be why LE searched Suck Creek...wish they had done a more extensive search of that waterway, etc.>

Hi Some1- it has been discussed, but let's bring it up again because there has been much debate concerning the pings.
Here is a good resource (with coords):

http://www.city-data.com/towers/cell-Signal-Mountain-Tennessee.html
http://www.city-data.com/towers/cell-Chattanooga-Tennessee.html

But please note that all towers may not be registered with the FCC... *sigh.*

Thanks Oriah...interesting site!

Now, I'm kinda confused :waitasec:, though, as yesterday, I was going back over some MSM articles regarding Gail's disappearance and re-read the following one dated 5/17/11 wherein DN stated that the last ping from Gail's cell phone was "near the north base of SM". Suck Creek, Walmart and Mtn Creek Apts seem to be in the opposite direction?! (Had read other postings of the last ping being near Walmart?)

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/may/17/missing-woman-search-continues-gail-palmgren

That article speaks volumes about the foul play or possibly an accident theories, also! IMO

BeanE
08-07-2011, 06:10 AM
Thanks Oriah...interesting site!

Now, I'm kinda confused :waitasec:, though, as yesterday, I was going back over some MSM articles regarding Gail's disappearance and re-read the following one dated 5/17/11 wherein DN stated that the last ping from Gail's cell phone was "near the north base of SM". Suck Creek, Walmart and Mtn Creek Apts seem to be in the opposite direction?! (Had read other postings of the last ping being near Walmart?)

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/may/17/missing-woman-search-continues-gail-palmgren

That article speaks volumes about the foul play or possibly an accident theories, also! IMO

A ping comes from a tower. The phone itself can be anywhere within a 20 mile radius of that tower.

To further complicate things, if a phone sends out a signal to a tower, and that tower is 'busy', the signal will go to another tower, usually the next nearest one, and that tower will send out a ping.

Because of all this, it's not possible to pin down exactly where the phone was when it sent the signal to the tower.

All you can do is look at the locations within that 20 mile radius, and take a guess at where the phone was.

If you look at the whole history of the person's pings, and you have information about where they were from other sources when they traveled certain routes, you can make a somewhat more educated guess about where they most likely were going on the day in question.

For example, if other information confirms that on other days when they followed the same ping route they were going to Taco Bell for lunch at that time, then you could say that since they were following the same ping route on the day in question, they were probably going to Taco Bell for lunch again. LE would then go to Taco Bell and try to find video or employees or customers who could tell them if indeed the person was there.

To even further complicate things, we have the cautionary tale of pings from Gabe Johnson's case. There we learned two important things about pings - that the ping info provided from the service provider to LE may be incorrect, and also that if the phone is disposed of - as it may be in clever ways - the subject person and their phone may be nowhere near each other.

Pings, unfortunately aren't exact. That's why it takes LE so long to analyze them. They have to study the history and come up with probable routes, and then go out and try to track down other witnesses, credit card transactions, store video, etc, to try to pin down where the phone and the person were. It takes a lot of work and a long time.

Emeralgem
08-07-2011, 06:59 AM
Thanks Oriah...interesting site!

Now, I'm kinda confused :waitasec:, though, as yesterday, I was going back over some MSM articles regarding Gail's disappearance and re-read the following one dated 5/17/11 wherein DN stated that the last ping from Gail's cell phone was "near the north base of SM". Suck Creek, Walmart and Mtn Creek Apts seem to be in the opposite direction?! (Had read other postings of the last ping being near Walmart?)

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/may/17/missing-woman-search-continues-gail-palmgren

That article speaks volumes about the foul play or possibly an accident theories, also! IMO



IMO.. The Signal Mtn Blvd, Suck Creek Road, and Mtn Creek Rd area is not what I would refer to as being the north base of the mtn.. It makes more sense to me for the Big Fork Rd area traveling toward Sequatchie County to be referred to as being north base... JMHO

http://mapq.st/ozctBw

Emeralgem
08-07-2011, 07:18 AM
A ping comes from a tower. The phone itself can be anywhere within a 20 mile radius of that tower.

To further complicate things, if a phone sends out a signal to a tower, and that tower is 'busy', the signal will go to another tower, usually the next nearest one, and that tower will send out a ping.

Because of all this, it's not possible to pin down exactly where the phone was when it sent the signal to the tower.

All you can do is look at the locations within that 20 mile radius, and take a guess at where the phone was.

If you look at the whole history of the person's pings, and you have information about where they were from other sources when they traveled certain routes, you can make a somewhat more educated guess about where they most likely were going on the day in question.

For example, if other information confirms that on other days when they followed the same ping route they were going to Taco Bell for lunch at that time, then you could say that since they were following the same ping route on the day in question, they were probably going to Taco Bell for lunch again. LE would then go to Taco Bell and try to find video or employees or customers who could tell them if indeed the person was there.

To even further complicate things, we have the cautionary tale of pings from Gabe Johnson's case. There we learned two important things about pings - that the ping info provided from the service provider to LE may be incorrect, and also that if the phone is disposed of - as it may be in clever ways - the subject person and their phone may be nowhere near each other.

Pings, unfortunately aren't exact. That's why it takes LE so long to analyze them. They have to study the history and come up with probable routes, and then go out and try to track down other witnesses, credit card transactions, store video, etc, to try to pin down where the phone and the person were. It takes a lot of work and a long time.

Under those circumstances how can anyone even begin to speculate as to where that last ping came from considering I suspect most of the residents in the Chattanooga, Red Bank, Hixson area live within a 20 mile radius of Signal Mtn ..JMHO

Oriah
08-07-2011, 07:49 AM
Under those circumstances how can anyone even begin to speculate as to where that last ping came from considering I suspect most of the residents in the Chattanooga, Red Bank, Hixson area live within a 20 mile radius of Signal Mtn ..JMHO

BeanE is correct in that it is difficult and tedious work. :banghead:

The possible location of an item that 'pings' (this is not only cell phones, but other devices as well) begins when you start overlaying the radius of every tower that may have serviced the device. So eventually you can narrow down which ones 'collide' so to speak.

Somewhat like a Spirograph.

Now I'm dating myself, lol.

Pearl*
08-07-2011, 08:17 AM
How can "sleeping on the job" be a good thing considering two children don't have a clue as to what has happened to their mother?

Also, I was under the impression there is a thread in the parking lot to discuss what goes on behind the scene with FB pages and their players...Am I wrong in my assumption?

Wow. I must have had a serious pronoun reference problem in my post last night. It's never good for ANYBODY to sleep on the job, and if the meaning of what I said came across that way, then I was typing way too late.

The post I was responding to has been removed. I was not making any reference to FB. I was responding to a general comment about people who are talking a lot (no names in either post) and whether that is a good thing. My guess is that the comments I made about that could probably be applied to most any criminal case--not just missing person.

Talkers can be either hurting, helping, or having no impact. And that depends greatly, I think, on whether LE is working hard on the case or not. Some on this case believe they are, and some believe they aren't. Some believe they aren't unless somebody is pushing them. And I think most people believe that, mixed in the whole bag, we've got a liar or two.

Doesn't that fairly well sum it up for everybody? We all want the truths to come out but have differences of opinion on how to approach it and on who is making a tragic situation more complicated and hurtful than it has to be.

It is heart-breaking that these two children have no idea where their mother is. I think about that every day. I would hope that EVERYBODY is working as hard as they can, in whatever way they can, toward getting some answers.

Annie_61
08-07-2011, 08:56 AM
Wow. I must have had a serious pronoun reference problem in my post last night. It's never good for ANYBODY to sleep on the job, and if the meaning of what I said came across that way, then I was typing way too late.

The post I was responding to has been removed. I was not making any reference to FB. I was responding to a general comment about people who are talking a lot (no names in either post) and whether that is a good thing. My guess is that the comments I made about that could probably be applied to most any criminal case--not just missing person.

Talkers can be either hurting, helping, or having no impact. And that depends greatly, I think, on whether LE is working hard on the case or not. Some on this case believe they are, and some believe they aren't. Some believe they aren't unless somebody is pushing them. And I think most people believe that, mixed in the whole bag, we've got a liar or two.

Doesn't that fairly well sum it up for everybody? We all want the truths to come out but have differences of opinion on how to approach it and on who is making a tragic situation more complicated and hurtful than it has to be.

It is heart-breaking that these two children have no idea where their mother is. I think about that every day. I would hope that EVERYBODY is working as hard as they can, in whatever way they can, toward getting some answers.

and I removed what was left of my post as it was thoughts on a post that had been removed so figured wasn't worth leaving

hollyblue
08-07-2011, 09:10 AM
JMHO, but I think some of the players have quieted down after they talked to the FBI. I don't think they felt comfortable talking with the local LE after what they had been through. They may feel they don't have to scream to be heard any longer....and now feel GP's case is in good hands.

Oriah
08-07-2011, 09:43 AM
Regarding Gail's phone pings, and a direction of travel that Gail may have taken when leaving the SM residence... I believe it all fits if she took 127 down, then looped around on 27 along Suck Creek.

But that's just her phone pings.
To me, that only means that her cell was in operation along that route.

What about the Jeep?

believe09
08-07-2011, 10:36 AM
Regarding Gail's phone pings, and a direction of travel that Gail may have taken when leaving the SM residence... I believe it all fits if she took 127 down, then looped around on 27 along Suck Creek.

But that's just her phone pings.
To me, that only means that her cell was in operation along that route.

What about the Jeep?

Other than Gail's location, the information I want the most is whether or not LE has ping info from the jeep.

believe09
08-07-2011, 10:56 AM
This is Websleuths Position on "reverse speech"


Until someone can show me a legitimate case of reverse speech being used to help solve a police investigation, and I am not talking private detectives, then there really isn't a place for this topic on Websleuths.

Sorry but if reverse speech really worked don't you think we would be using it like mad all over the world?

To start a discussion based on reverse speech does nothing to truly help solve a case. In addition this hurts Websleuths credibility.

You all are fantastic sleuthers and posters. Stick to the facts and what we know works.

Thanks,
Tricia

Emeralgem
08-07-2011, 10:58 AM
Wow. I must have had a serious pronoun reference problem in my post last night. It's never good for ANYBODY to sleep on the job, and if the meaning of what I said came across that way, then I was typing way too late.

The post I was responding to has been removed. I was not making any reference to FB. I was responding to a general comment about people who are talking a lot (no names in either post) and whether that is a good thing. My guess is that the comments I made about that could probably be applied to most any criminal case--not just missing person.

Talkers can be either hurting, helping, or having no impact. And that depends greatly, I think, on whether LE is working hard on the case or not. Some on this case believe they are, and some believe they aren't. Some believe they aren't unless somebody is pushing them. And I think most people believe that, mixed in the whole bag, we've got a liar or two.

Doesn't that fairly well sum it up for everybody? We all want the truths to come out but have differences of opinion on how to approach it and on who is making a tragic situation more complicated and hurtful than it has to be.

It is heart-breaking that these two children have no idea where their mother is. I think about that every day. I would hope that EVERYBODY is working as hard as they can, in whatever way they can, toward getting some answers.


BBM..Seems I may have been attempting to read and comprehend way too late..

BeanE
08-07-2011, 11:00 AM
This is Websleuths Position on "reverse speech"

?stsop esrever tuoba woH

Emeralgem
08-07-2011, 11:20 AM
This is Websleuths Position on "reverse speech"

Is a "statement analysis" classified as being the same as "reverse speech" analysis? I thought there was a difference in the two...
So are you saying neither are accepted here at WS?

IIRC I do recall an "Eyes" site being linked here at WS at one time...Just wondering...JMHO

Irish_Eyes
08-07-2011, 11:39 AM
?stsop esrever tuoba woH

Nooooo....it's hard enough keeping up with some of you sometimes!!

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

believe09
08-07-2011, 12:24 PM
(This is what I get for posting without enough coffee on board :loser:)

Now that I have completely derailed the thread....I thought the discussion was about REVERSE SPEECH. I am leaving my post up so that we dont lose the last couple of hours.

I am so sorry!!!! blush, blush, blush.

Oriah
08-07-2011, 12:26 PM
Other than Gail's location, the information I want the most is whether or not LE has ping info from the jeep.

I hope LE does as well, believe09.

I know it's been in media that there's been no luck in the way of tracing pings from the jeep- but I just don't see how that is a possibility. Imvho, way too many options to zero in on devices and/or pre or post installed factory 'ping-able' features.

And that leads me to think that Gail's phone is in a separate location than the jeep.

Pearl*
08-07-2011, 12:37 PM
?stsop esrever tuoba woH

¿sʇsod pǝddılɟ ʇnoqɐ ʍoɥ

believe09
08-07-2011, 12:40 PM
Thanks for having a sense of humor about it...

BeanE
08-07-2011, 12:41 PM
I hope LE does as well, believe09.

I know it's been in media that there's been no luck in the way of tracing pings from the jeep- but I just don't see how that is a possibility. Imvho, way too many options to zero in on devices and/or pre or post installed factory 'ping-able' features.

And that leads me to think that Gail's phone is in a separate location than the jeep.

Oriah, I don't remember it being reported that LE couldn't trace the pings from the Jeep. Do you remember where you saw that?

Irish_Eyes
08-07-2011, 12:44 PM
Looking more into the cell phone pings, 20 miles would seem to be the very, very outer limits of range that a tall tower in a rural area would be able to provide. If there were no other towers around to triangulate from then it would be more difficult to narrow the signal to anything less than the radius that particular tower is capable of. There appear to be three Verizon towers close to Gail (I think it was said she had Verizon?) One between SM and Red Bank, one north of Jasper, and one north of Whitwell. So they may have been able to triangulate that call from her phone and get a more accurate location.

I'm trying to find the MSM article that said her phone pinged near Wal-mart, but I haven't found it yet. Because, although I'm not local, I agree that it doesn't seem like "near Wal-Mart" and "North face of mountain" would be talking about the same area.

So....wondering if her phone pinged off the tower near Wal-Mart, but the triangulated location was closer to the north face of the mountain? I need to look into all of this further...just throwing this out there for some food for thought....

Emeralgem
08-07-2011, 12:44 PM
I hope LE does as well, believe09.

I know it's been in media that there's been no luck in the way of tracing pings from the jeep- but I just don't see how that is a possibility. Imvho, way too many options to zero in on devices and/or pre or post installed factory 'ping-able' features.

And that leads me to think that Gail's phone is in a separate location than the jeep.

Right now I can't even figure out where the last ping was registered... Some are saying the north base of the mountain, describing the area as being the Suck Creek Road, Signal Mtn Blvd, Mountain Creek Road area near Walmart and I'm thinking the north base would be in the complete opposite direction traveling north or north west toward Sequatchie County... ...
All I know for certain is the last ping was on May 2nd or am I wrong concerning that information? JMHO

ETA... Sorry about error in directions... Traveling over to Sequatchie would be North West...not North East.

Irish_Eyes
08-07-2011, 12:46 PM
¿sʇsod pǝddılɟ ʇnoqɐ ʍoɥ

Show off.





(just kidding!! Love ya, Pearl!)

Oriah
08-07-2011, 12:46 PM
Oriah, I don't remember it being reported that LE couldn't trace the pings from the Jeep. Do you remember where you saw that?

I don't... but I'll dig and see if I can find it.

BeanE
08-07-2011, 12:49 PM
Looking more into the cell phone pings, 20 miles would seem to be the very, very outer limits of range that a tall tower in a rural area would be able to provide. If there were no other towers around to triangulate from then it would be more difficult to narrow the signal to anything less than the radius that particular tower is capable of. There appear to be three Verizon towers close to Gail (I think it was said she had Verizon?) One between SM and Red Bank, one north of Jasper, and one north of Whitwell. So they may have been able to triangulate that call from her phone and get a more accurate location.

I'm trying to find the MSM article that said her phone pinged near Wal-mart, but I haven't found it yet. Because, although I'm not local, I agree that it doesn't seem like "near Wal-Mart" and "North face of mountain" would be talking about the same area.

So....wondering if her phone pinged off the tower near Wal-Mart, but the triangulated location was closer to the north face of the mountain? I need to look into all of this further...just throwing this out there for some food for thought....

I don't think there was a news article about pings at Walmart. I have 2 articles - one says north base of the mountain, and the other says Mountain Creek Rd.

Missing woman search continues for Gail Palmgren
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/may/17/missing-woman-search-continues-gail-palmgren/?news
Times Free Press – Tuesday, May 17th, 2011

Nichols said traces on Gail Palmgren’s cellphone directed police to an area near the north base of Signal Mountain. The last time there was activity on the cellphone was May 2, the same day the missing person’s report was filed, Nichols said.


Searchers comb Signal for missing woman
http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/may/23/searchers-comb-signal-missing-woman/?news
Times Free Press – published Monday, May 23rd, 2011

The last signal from Palmgren’s cell phone was reported near Mountain Creek Road two days after she went missing.


ETA: To make it further confusing, here's a map where I've marked Signal Mountain and Mountain Creek Rd. Mountain Creek Rd runs east of the mountain.

Signal Mountain, TN to Mountain Creek Rd, Chattanooga, TN - Google Maps

Personally, I think the Mountain Creek Rd references are speculatory, trying to tie Gail's last ping to Matt's mother's apartment, since he's been said to have been running errands with his mother that morning.

I don't know where the Wal-mart reference would come from, because pings are from towers, and don't pinpoint a specific location like a Wal-mart.

We don't know for sure even if she had Sprint or Verizon. Both have been stated.

Because of all the confusion, it seems to me that no one actually has the location of the tower Gail's phone last pinged from, and that tower would be starting point.

Irish_Eyes
08-07-2011, 12:59 PM
I don't think there was a news article about pings at Walmart. I have 2 articles - one says north base of the mountain, and the other says Mountain Creek Rd.

Missing woman search continues for Gail Palmgren
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/may/17/missing-woman-search-continues-gail-palmgren/?news
Times Free Press – Tuesday, May 17th, 2011

Nichols said traces on Gail Palmgren’s cellphone directed police to an area near the north base of Signal Mountain. The last time there was activity on the cellphone was May 2, the same day the missing person’s report was filed, Nichols said.


Searchers comb Signal for missing woman
http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/may/23/searchers-comb-signal-missing-woman/?news
Times Free Press – published Monday, May 23rd, 2011

The last signal from Palmgren’s cell phone was reported near Mountain Creek Road two days after she went missing.

Well, that's still odd....Mountain Creek Road is very close to the Wal-Mart on the south end of the road...however, it's a looong road, so other spots on the road would never be described as near Wal-Mart. But looking at a map, no part of Mountain Creek road would be described as the "north base of the mountain" either, correct? Any of our locals - what road might I be driving on if I was on the "north base" of the mountain?

BeanE
08-07-2011, 01:05 PM
Well, that's still odd....Mountain Creek Road is very close to the Wal-Mart on the south end of the road...however, it's a looong road, so other spots on the road would never be described as near Wal-Mart. But looking at a map, no part of Mountain Creek road would be described as the "north base of the mountain" either, correct? Any of our locals - what road might I be driving on if I was on the "north base" of the mountain?

Exactly. I think what Diane said, about the north base of the mountain, is most likely a tower location, and I'm betting she got that location from LE.

Oriah had posted links to where you can look up both Sprint and Verizon towers. So, you can find a tower that would be likely, and then you can figure a 20 mile radius on a map, or Oriah's link also shows the coverage area.

Irish_Eyes
08-07-2011, 01:05 PM
Searchers comb Signal for missing woman
http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/may/23/searchers-comb-signal-missing-woman/?news
Times Free Press – published Monday, May 23rd, 2011

The last signal from Palmgren’s cell phone was reported near Mountain Creek Road two days after she went missing.


Personally, I think the Mountain Creek Rd references are speculatory, trying to tie Gail's last ping to Matt's mother's apartment, since he's been said to have been running errands with his mother that morning.


Because of all the confusion, it seems to me that no one actually has the location of the tower Gail's phone last pinged from, and that tower would be starting point.

(snipped by me)

I don't read the article as speculating based on people wanting to tie this to MP??? JMPO. I do believe LE knows the tower location, and if DN says "north base" I'm assuming she could only have gotten that info from LE? Where that leaves us though, I agree, I don't know until we can figure out roughly what is considered the "north base".

BeanE
08-07-2011, 01:07 PM
(snipped by me)

I don't read the article as speculating based on people wanting to tie this to MP??? JMPO. I do believe LE knows the tower location, and if DN says "north base" I'm assuming she could only have gotten that info from LE? Where that leaves us though, I agree, I don't know until we can figure out roughly what is considered the "north base".

No, I mean that I think perhaps someone speculating gave that info to the reporter, and the reporter went with it. And that, of course, is my speculation lol.

Irish_Eyes
08-07-2011, 01:08 PM
Okay, we were typing at the same time, LOL...great minds think alike!

The cell reception.com site is where I was able to look at only verizon towers. I just now see I didn't remember to link that. Because in this specific case there are several towers within a 20 mile radius I think LE has a more accurate location than anywhere in 20 miles because they can triangulate. I'll go back and grab the verizon link again, and also one for Sprint, just to make sure the same is true for Sprint.

Irish_Eyes
08-07-2011, 01:19 PM
What are our sources for Verizon vs Sprint?

http://www.cellreception.com/towers/towers.php?city=chattanooga&state_abr=tn

Looking at this map, you can use the checkboxes to isolate only Verizon towers or only Sprint towers.

Most of the Sprint towers are in Chattanooga. There is one near Suck Creek, NW of the mountain, it looks like. Even though the other Sprint towers seem farther could you triangulate? I think so, but who knows?

We need BondJamesBond or JWG on this. IIRC, both are quite good with cell pings.

Irish_Eyes
08-07-2011, 01:30 PM
So I see that under the Gail Palmgren Timeline and Media Links, ForumsforJustice has the ping on May 2 as coming from Wal-Mart area at 5:00. (This post was on 5/15/01). Also, SMM's blog has the same info (blog post was on 5/16/01). Not sure if they got this info separately from each other, and if so where from?

Emeralgem
08-07-2011, 01:31 PM
Well, that's still odd....Mountain Creek Road is very close to the Wal-Mart on the south end of the road...however, it's a looong road, so other spots on the road would never be described as near Wal-Mart. But looking at a map, no part of Mountain Creek road would be described as the "north base of the mountain" either, correct? Any of our locals - what road might I be driving on if I was on the "north base" of the mountain?

I would think Big Fork Road located in Sequatchie County, not the section of Big Fork Road located close to Suck Creek Road or in Marion County would/could be considered North base of the Mtn. JMHO..

BeanE
08-07-2011, 01:32 PM
So I see that under the Gail Palmgren Timeline and Media Links, ForumsforJustice has the ping on May 2 as coming from Wal-Mart area at 5:00. (This post was on 5/15/01). Also, SMM's blog has the same info (blog post was on 5/16/01). Not sure if they got this info separately from each other, and if so where from?

I think the Walmart info came from thread #1.

Irish_Eyes
08-07-2011, 01:46 PM
Thank you BeanE! JBean, post #6, thread #1:

I am told that the last they were able to track her cell phone was at the Walmart at the base of Signal Mountain on Monday. Phone has not been on since then.
She did not have credit cards or her drivers license with her.

I'm going out on a limb to state that JBean's info came from a source close to the case, and not MSM.

JBean - if that is the case, can you confirm with your source whether or not that information is still thought to be accurate?

Emeralgem
08-07-2011, 02:06 PM
Thank you BeanE! JBean, post #6, thread #1:

I am told that the last they were able to track her cell phone was at the Walmart at the base of Signal Mountain on Monday. Phone has not been on since then.
She did not have credit cards or her drivers license with her.

I'm going out on a limb to state that JBean's info came from a source close to the case, and not MSM.

JBean - if that is the case, can you confirm with your source whether or not that information is still thought to be accurate?

Walmart is definitely located at the base of Signal Mtn but not the north base so where did the north base information originate? JMHO

BeanE
08-07-2011, 02:29 PM
Thank you BeanE! JBean, post #6, thread #1:

I am told that the last they were able to track her cell phone was at the Walmart at the base of Signal Mountain on Monday. Phone has not been on since then.
She did not have credit cards or her drivers license with her.

I'm going out on a limb to state that JBean's info came from a source close to the case, and not MSM.

JBean - if that is the case, can you confirm with your source whether or not that information is still thought to be accurate?

Posting for reference:

05-10-2011, 02:37 PM believe09



Originally Posted by jd3223
I saw that JBean posted the phone ping but where did that info come from? There was no link to a reference.


I gave her the info JD-you will just have to take my word for it I am afraid. You are free to question the validity of it for sure, but it is in fact true and it would be a good way of drawing anyone who might have seen her or her phone.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #1



05-15-2011, 10:55 AM believe09


Trying to catch up-just a ping, not a location and not a call. The tower near the Walmart was the tower that caught the ping.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6489623&highlight=walmart#post6489623

Oriah
08-07-2011, 02:33 PM
Walmart is definitely located at the base of Signal Mtn but not the north base so where did the north base information originate? JMHO

From the possible sighting and confusion over how 'pings' work, I believe.

BeanE
08-07-2011, 02:53 PM
From the possible sighting and confusion over how 'pings' work, I believe.

I don't know, Oriah. Diane said LE based it on the phone:

Nichols said traces on Gail Palmgren’s cellphone directed police to an area near the north base of Signal Mountain

And that article came out a month before the sighting, if you're referring to the sightings on Big Fork/Insurance Bluff, which I believe were on the west side of the mountain.

Big Fork Road, Chattanooga, TN - Google Maps

lalalu
08-07-2011, 04:01 PM
Just drove back from my friend's place on the river which is 9 miles down River Canyon Road which is off Suck Creek Road. Passed TWO Rubicons, the maroon crimson color with black fenders and black soft top, on my way back. Highly unusual & very strange.

I passed the first one about 5 miles down River Canyon. The wheel cover said JEEP. The second one was about 3 miles down Suck Creek and it didn't have a wheel cover.

I would imagine if someone else has GP's Jeep, (or even if she does) the easily identifiable wheel cover, tag and trailer hitch would have been switched out. (I wasn't able to look for tag or hitch from the rear view anyway)

Also, not to digress, but what is that "reverse" speech thing? Just curious.

One more question...Didn't someone from GPs family verify that she actually used Verizon and not Sprint?

believe09
08-07-2011, 04:04 PM
Excellent point about the wheel cover and trailer hitch of course. All we can hope then is that they get stopped and the registration causes a hit, or a service record with the VIN??

lalalu
08-07-2011, 04:08 PM
So Believe, are my sightings something I need to tell anyone in particular? It was likely nothing...just odd.

Irish_Eyes
08-07-2011, 04:14 PM
I guess I just have a hard time believing that if that Jeep is on the road anywhere, it would be in the Signal Mountain/Chattanooga area. If anyone was stopped with Gail's Jeep they would have a LOT of explaining to do. And if Gail is trying to hide out anywhere, driving around in the Jeep everyone is looking for right through that area would not be the best way JMHO.

When you get a ticket for parking, speeding, etc. do they note the VIN and the plate or just the plate? I seem to think when I got a parking ticket they noted my VIN as well but can't say I remember that 100% for sure...

Oriah
08-07-2011, 05:17 PM
I don't know, Oriah. Diane said LE based it on the phone:

Nichols said traces on Gail Palmgren’s cellphone directed police to an area near the north base of Signal Mountain

And that article came out a month before the sighting, if you're referring to the sightings on Big Fork/Insurance Bluff, which I believe were on the west side of the mountain.

Big Fork Road, Chattanooga, TN - Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Big+Fork+Road,+Chattanooga,+TN&hl=en&ll=35.11036,-85.249786&spn=0.3095,0.676346&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=38.281301,86.572266&t=h&z=11)

I was referring to the confusion about pings, and how they work.
Maybe it would be helpful to use tower numers?

I believe the 'north base' of SM is the Taft Hwy route? :waitasec:

I'm going back to my Spirograph of coordinates on towers. :banghead:

Emeralgem
08-07-2011, 05:29 PM
I was referring to the confusion about pings, and how they work.
Maybe it would be helpful to use tower numers?

I believe the 'north base' of SM is the Taft Hwy route? :waitasec:

I'm going back to my Spirograph of coordinates on towers. :banghead:

I just returned home from traveling 127-N on Taft Hwy and the Big Fork Road entrance in Sequatchie County is definitely what I would refer to as being north base of the mtn......JMHO

http://mapq.st/qlHyIf

BeanE
08-07-2011, 07:33 PM
I just returned home from traveling 127-N on Taft Hwy and the Big Fork Road entrance in Sequatchie County is definitely what I would refer to as being north base of the mtn......JMHO

http://mapq.st/qlHyIf

Thank you, Em. Can you or can anyone put on a map where Insurance Bluff is? I can't find where it's located.

TIA

ThoughtFox
08-07-2011, 07:57 PM
BeanE: I looked for a map of Insurance Bluff before and couldn't find one. Also, I think there is another Insurance Bluff somewhere else in Tennessee, in another county. So you have to be sure the one you find is in the Hamilton/Sequatchie/Marion County areas.

My two cents about the phone pings :twocents:

I agree with Emeraldgem that the "north face" wouldn't be anywhere along Mountain Creek, but on the other side of the mountain (the Insurance Bluff/Sequatchie side). I wrote that once and got smacked down by someone so I hate to even post it again, but to me the highway going down through Prentice-Cooper would be the North Face.

But this might be a case of mind-over-words :crazy: and they were envisioning the mountain differently than we think. Whoever said that might be thinking that the ping came somewhere along the bluff "north" of Signal Mountain. In that case, we might consider that the W-Road that goes down the face is north of the Wal Mart and Suck Creek Road, and Roberts Mill Road comes down further north than that. Those roads are north of Signal and come down the bluff, therefore "north bluff."

Really it's just sloppy description by whomever said it. The mountain exists at an angle to the river, with Signal Point at the southerly end, and extending to the northeast like every other mountain in East Tennessee. They should have talked about the Red Bank side of the Mountain or the Prentice Cooper side of the mountain. Then we wouldn't still be discussing this.

However, I disagree that they can't pinpoint the towers. They should surely be able to tell whether she was near the river or up on the mountain - those towers wouldn't cover the same territory. The ones in the valley wouldn't cover the mountain, for instance. And the mountain can interfere with the signals also and block signals in certain places, so if one tower lost it and another picked it up, they could extrapolate the phone's position from that.

JBean
08-07-2011, 07:59 PM
PSA-
Sorry I am just not around much folks.
As for names,initials,etc. Feel free to use initials or first name and last initial.


Originally, the concept of using initials was for abbreviation and also to keep names of those not named in the media out of the search engines. IOW, if we knew that someone like Arlene D or Susie B had information but there was nothing in the MSM about it we would not want to be the source of search hits for peripheral players.
But once the person either steps forward, is quoted by name ,speaks to the msm, files court documents or creates a vehicle for their name to be spelled out in the msm, we do not require initials anymore.

But since some very complex cases have tentacles reaching out to involve many players, it can be very difficult to know who has been named in the msm and who hasn't; so we usually make it easier by requiring initials for everyone.

For this case, we have had some backlash for allowing full names, even though we are well within our rights to do so. But, in our constant effort to be a place of safety and help, let's just use first names and initials or initials. As always the victim can be named in full.
Thanks for your cooperation.

Emeralgem
08-07-2011, 08:22 PM
Thank you, Em. Can you or can anyone put on a map where Insurance Bluff is? I can't find it where it's located.

TIA

I don't know where Insurance Bluff is and can't locate it on a map either...Someone one else may know...
Here are three videos taken on July 4, 2011 that show travel on Big Fork Road and in Prentice Cooper..This will give you some idea as to what the roads and trails are like up in Prentice Cooper ... I won't be traveling those roads in my Infiniti..


&#x202a;Xterra in Big Fork and Prentice Cooper part 1 of 3&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube



&#x202a;Xterra in Big Fork and Prentice Cooper Part 2 of 3&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube


&#x202a;Xterrra in Big Fork and Prentice Cooper Part 3 of 3&#x202c;&rlm; - YouTube

BeanE
08-07-2011, 08:50 PM
I don't know where Insurance Bluff is and can't locate it on a map either...Someone one else may know...
Here are three videos taken on July 4, 2011 that show travel on Big Fork Road and in Prentice Cooper..This will give you some idea as to what the roads and trails are like up in Prentice Cooper ... I won't be traveling those roads in my Infiniti..




Thanks, Em. I found some videos a while back, so I know what the roads are like in that area. I even found some close up pics of Insurance Bluff.

The problem I always have is figuring out exactly where things are on a map, and envisioning where everything is. I'm just terrible at it. If I haven't been there, it just takes a long time for it all to sink in lol.

hollyblue
08-07-2011, 09:06 PM
Em, Could you give us your perception of the N,S,W & E points of "Signal Mountain." Thanks. It may help with a mental picture for us non locals.

I have always believed that she went north IF she left on her own...tossing the phone. Rte 127 goes all the way to Lexington for a back road and then she would just make a left on 64 to Louisville. If heading for New England...she could continue on to Ohio and pick up the turnpike heading east. IMO

Emeralgem
08-07-2011, 09:25 PM
Em, Could you give us your perception of the N,S,W & E points of "Signal Mountain." Thanks. It may help with a mental picture for us non locals.

I have always believed that she went north IF she left on her own...tossing the phone. Rte 127 goes all the way to Lexington for a back road and then she would just make a left on 64 to Louisville. If heading for New England...she could continue on to Ohio and pick up the turnpike heading east. IMO

Hope these two maps help..

http://www.tennessee-mapsite.com/us_tn_signal_mountain_oa.html



http://www.americantowns.com/tn/signalmountain-maps

hollyblue
08-07-2011, 09:26 PM
Just want to expand on the reasoning for believing she went north...if "ok" figuratively speaking. IF GP was getting more paranoid by the minute or had a mental break of some kind...she may have even doubted AD's sincerity...and headed for family or other friends for a soft place.

hollyblue
08-07-2011, 09:44 PM
Hope these two maps help..

http://www.tennessee-mapsite.com/us_tn_signal_mountain_oa.html



http://www.americantowns.com/tn/signalmountain-maps

Thank you. Sorry, I guess should clarify I was looking for a perimeter of what locals perceive as Signal Mtn. Using roads or landmarks. If I'm driving any direction...at what point do I exit SM? EX: N = Dunlap, S = Suck Ck Road/TN River, E= Mountain Ck Road and W(NW) = PC Forest.
TIA

Emeralgem
08-07-2011, 10:15 PM
Thank you. Sorry, I guess should clarify I was looking for a perimeter of what locals perceive as Signal Mtn. Using roads or landmarks. If I'm driving any direction...at what point do I exit SM? EX: N = Dunlap, S = Suck Ck Road/TN River, E= Mountain Ck Road and W(NW) = PC Forest.
TIA


Traveling 127-N on Taft Hwy, just past the little town of Walden which is also on Signal Mtn I saw a sign that read Sequatchie County but I was still on Signal Mtn... If I continue on that road I am traveling North North West and I will come down the mtn and that will put me in Sequatachie Valley not too far from Dunlap Tn.. If I am on Suck Creek Road, which runs South and West of Signal Mtn I am not on Signal, however you can enter Big Fork Road from Suck Creek Road and the opposite end of Big Fork Road is in Sequatchie County on Signal Mtn.. If I am in Soddy Daisy which is North East of Signal Mtn I am not one the Mtn.. Same apllies to the city of Hixson and Red Bank...
If you are on Mtn Creek Road you are not on the Mtn. Mtn Creek Road runs east of the Mtn at the bottom of the Mtn...

I do not know where the entrance is to Roberts Mill Road on Signal Mtn. or where Roberts Mill Road ends at the bottom of Signal Mtn but I think if you go down Signal Mtn from Roberts Mill Road you are close to Hwy 153 and the Red Bank - Hixson area which is also somewhat south and East of Signal Mtn....

Hope I haven't confused you more...

hollyblue
08-07-2011, 10:25 PM
Traveling 127-N on Taft Hwy, just past Walden which is also on Siganl Mtn I saw a sign that read Sequatchie County but I was still on Signal Mtn... If I continue on that road I am traveling North North West and I will come down the mtn and that will put me in Sequatachie Valley not too far from Dunlap Tn.. If I am on Suck Creek Road, which runs South and West of signal Mtn I am not on Signal, however you can enter Big Fork Road from Suck Creek Road and the opposite end of Big Fork Road is in Sequatchie County on Signal Mtn.. If I am in Soddy Daisy which is North East of Signal Mtn I am not one the Mtn.. Same apllies to the city of Hixson and Red Bank...
If you are on Mtn Creek road you are not on the Mtn.Mtn Creek Road runs east of the Mtn at the bottom of the Mtn...

I do not know where the entrance is to Roberts Mill Road on Signal Mtn. or where Roberts Mill Road ends at the bottom of Signal Mtn but I think if you go down Signal Mtn from Roberts Mill Road you are close to Hwy 153 and the Red Bank - Hixson area which is also East of Signal Mtn....

Hope I haven't confused you more...

Nope, nothing but hugs and thanks to you for the info. :tyou: :hug:

Emeralgem
08-07-2011, 10:41 PM
Nope, nothing but hugs and thanks to you for the info. :tyou: :hug:

The ONLY entrances and exits I know of going up and down Signal Mtn. are at the front of the Mtn.that leads to Signal Mtn Blvd close to Walmart and close to Suck Creek Road..
127-N also called Taft Hwy that leads to Sequatchie Valley..
The "W" Road entrance at Mtn Creek Road and..
Roberts Mill Road that leads somewhere close to Hwy 153..

As I stated before Big Fork Road runs through Prentice Cooper from Suck Creek Road at the bottom of the Mtn all the way to Sequatchie County..My understanding is the road runs through three different counties..Hamilton County, Marian County and Sequatchie County...JMHO

hollyblue
08-07-2011, 11:00 PM
The ONLY entrances and exits I know of going up and down Signal Mtn. are at the front of the Mtn.that leads to Signal Mtn Blvd close to Walmart and close to Suck Creek Road..
127-N also called Taft Hwy that leads to Sequatchie Valley..
The "W" Road entrance at Mtn Creek Road and..
Roberts Mill Road that leads somewhere close to Hwy 153..

As I stated before Big Fork Road runs through Prentice Cooper from Suck Creek Road at the bottom of the Mtn all the way to Sequatchie County..My understanding is the road runs through three different counties..Hamilton County, Marian County and Sequatchie County...JMHO

Great Em! You gave me exactly what I was looking for. One of the perks in mp's cases, besides them being found OK.. or at least returned to their loved ones is getting to know the area and it's history. There have been a few historical sites in each of the above counties and I have immersed myself in them while trying to find caves, mines or quarries. I get lost in history and architecture. Just ran into a site about an old mill on the Sequatchie River...some kind of yearly fair...but now I want to see that old mill!!!

conundrummed
08-07-2011, 11:33 PM
Yes. The game was tied to the kids elementary school.
Actually, MP was seen at the Lookouts baseball game on the 30th, but that game had nothing to do with the school. There was another Lookouts game on the Wednesday after school was let out that MP also attended with kids and his mother. THAT game, on Wednesday, was the school affiliated game. It was teacher appreciation night and the elementary school, <modsnip> ended up donating money to two other Hamilton County schools after they were hit hard by the tornadoes. Hope this helps. I just wanted to clear up the school- affiliated game comments.

confused
08-08-2011, 12:06 AM
Great Em! You gave me exactly what I was looking for. One of the perks in mp's cases, besides them being found OK.. or at least returned to their loved ones is getting to know the area and it's history. There have been a few historical sites in each of the above counties and I have immersed myself in them while trying to find caves, mines or quarries. I get lost in history and architecture. Just ran into a site about an old mill on the Sequatchie River...some kind of yearly fair...but now I want to see that old mill!!!

OT. Do you mean Ketner's Mill? If so, I have been to that mill many times, played there in the water beside the mill when I was little. One of my grandparents was a Ketner. We had family reunions there too, beautiful place. The fair used to be really great, but the last time we attended-about 5 years ago, it had become all about vendors selling frozen lemonade and corn dogs, disappointing.

hollyblue
08-08-2011, 01:37 AM
[/b]

OT. Do you mean Ketner's Mill? If so, I have been to that mill many times, played there in the water beside the mill when I was little. One of my grandparents was a Ketner. We had family reunions there too, beautiful place. The fair used to be really great, but the last time we attended-about 5 years ago, it had become all about vendors selling frozen lemonade and corn dogs, disappointing.

Yes, that's it. Beautiful old mill. Scroll down, there is another picture during the fair.
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tnmarion/photo_gallery.htm

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tnmarion/marionc.jpg

Sleuthy1
08-08-2011, 02:00 AM
Actually, MP was seen at the Lookouts baseball game on the 30th, but that game had nothing to do with the school. There was another Lookouts game on the Wednesday after school was let out that MP also attended with kids and his mother. THAT game, on Wednesday, was the school affiliated game. It was teacher appreciation night and the elementary school, <modsnip> ended up donating money to two other Hamilton County schools after they were hit hard by the tornadoes. Hope this helps. I just wanted to clear up the school- affiliated game comments.

:twocents:I wouldn't think that Lookouts game was the Wednesday before GP went missing because MP would have been FAUX conference out of town with TH. As it was, MP UNEXPECTEDLY arrived back in SM around noonish that Friday (April 29th) correct? So, maybe the game you were referring to (the "teacher appreciation" game with the Lookouts game) actually took place the week before, possibly on May 20th 2011. The storms/tornadoes hit the SM area hard on Wednesday May 27th...so I don't think there would have been any BB games that Wednesday (the 27th). Maybe someone with more knowledge than myself can clear this question up some.

If not that is okay too, because GP was still with us at that point in time...so it really is not that important to this case.The Saturday game played on the evening of April 30th is another story and very important to this case. We know MP was seen at the game with their 2 children that evening. Where was MP post game until Monday when GP was finally reported missing at the urging of AD & DNN? That is a great deal of unaccounted for time. IMHO. I for one would like to know where MP says he was during that period of time, and if MP has anyone who can vouch for his story with regards to his whereabouts during that timespan.:twocents:

obody
08-08-2011, 02:17 AM
I found a reference to Insurance Bluff on an ATV forum that placed it at the end of Tower Rd in Prentice Cooper. Tower Rd is now Game Reserve Drive apparently. There is a bluffs at the end, but it is a long way from Big Fork. Not sure how helpful that is, but maybe it's a start.

35.033028,-85.450756 (Game Reserve Rd, Chattanooga, TN 37405, USA) - Google Maps

I wonder if someone at Prentice Cooper could be contacted for clarification. Would they fess up to where all the wrecked cars were?

glorias
08-08-2011, 04:43 AM
snipped


The Saturday game played on the evening of April 30th is another story and very important to this case. We know MP was seen at the game with their 2 children that evening. Where was MP post game until Monday when GP was finally reported missing at the urging of AD & DNN? That is a great deal of unaccounted for time. IMHO. I for one would like to know where MP says he was during that period of time, and if MP has anyone who can vouch for his story with regards to his whereabouts during that timespan.

Boy, I'd like to know, too.

The game attended on the 30th has always struck me as so odd. However, attending the game to keep things "normal" for the kids seems reasonable. Still, I'd love to know how MP was acting. Specifically, I want to know if he was even watching for Gail to see if she'd show up after cooling off for a few hours, or if he didn't bother watching/waiting for her because he knew she wasn't coming back.

And had anyone called MP to ask about Gail by the time of the game that evening? Maybe no one called him until the 1st. AD didn't call until the 1st when Gail didn't answer her cell (link here (http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203035.asp)) and got MP, who said "She just dropped my kids off and left."

DN called police the 2nd (link here (http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/14669942/timeline-leading-up-to-palmgrens-disapearance)) after reportedly talking to MP, but we don't know the times she called him. Maybe everyone waited overnight just in case Gail went somewhere to cool off.

hollyblue
08-08-2011, 06:10 AM
:twocents:I wouldn't think that Lookouts game was the Wednesday before GP went missing because MP would have been FAUX conference out of town with TH. As it was, MP UNEXPECTEDLY arrived back in SM around noonish that Friday (April 29th) correct? So, maybe the game you were referring to (the "teacher appreciation" game with the Lookouts game) actually took place the week before, possibly on May 20th 2011. The storms/tornadoes hit the SM area hard on Wednesday May 27th...so I don't think there would have been any BB games that Wednesday (the 27th). Maybe someone with more knowledge than myself can clear this question up some.

If not that is okay too, because GP was still with us at that point in time...so it really is not that important to this case.The Saturday game played on the evening of April 30th is another story and very important to this case. We know MP was seen at the game with their 2 children that evening. Where was MP post game until Monday when GP was finally reported missing at the urging of AD & DNN? That is a great deal of unaccounted for time. IMHO. I for one would like to know where MP says he was during that period of time, and if MP has anyone who can vouch for his story with regards to his whereabouts during that timespan.:twocents:

Sleuthy, the tornado was April 27, so the ballgame with teacher's appreciation had to be in May shortly before the end of the school year. (May 24), since they were making a donation for the other schools hit hard by the tornado. IMO

I'd like to know his timeline from 4/29 when GP left-- til the his call to LE too, which IIRC was in the early evening---late afternoon..after DN's call. I'm assuming he went to work that day before calling, but knowing how he "missed" the conference..we can't be sure. AD did say when she saw Matt that following week (Wed) she asked why he was going to work and not looking for GP ***I'd like to know TH's timeline also for that week-end....or a little prior. From the time she arrived in Chatt/SM to drop MP off till the phone ping on 5/2.

The timeline for DN, AD, TH and MP for these days would be important. Also, the mother JP. Especially the phone calls. IMO Maybe MP brushed AD and DN off nonchalantly, by saying she just went to cool off again. But the oddity of talking to AD..and then, IF true, he told the children she had gone to the lakehouse again. I don't think he told AD that because of her reaction on the SMM interview. JMHO

**It's very early...hope you can follow my scrambled thoughts!!

Some1Nose
08-08-2011, 07:10 AM
Looking more into the cell phone pings, 20 miles would seem to be the very, very outer limits of range that a tall tower in a rural area would be able to provide. If there were no other towers around to triangulate from then it would be more difficult to narrow the signal to anything less than the radius that particular tower is capable of. There appear to be three Verizon towers close to Gail (I think it was said she had Verizon?) One between SM and Red Bank, one north of Jasper, and one north of Whitwell. So they may have been able to triangulate that call from her phone and get a more accurate location.

I'm trying to find the MSM article that said her phone pinged near Wal-mart, but I haven't found it yet. Because, although I'm not local, I agree that it doesn't seem like "near Wal-Mart" and "North face of mountain" would be talking about the same area.

So....wondering if her phone pinged off the tower near Wal-Mart, but the triangulated location was closer to the north face of the mountain? I need to look into all of this further...just throwing this out there for some food for thought....
BBM

Irish - I seem to recall that it was stated two or more threads back that Gail had Sprint service. And it was speculated that MP had Verizon since it would be a BCBS perk. Sorry, don't have a link, just now.

I was thinking with all the cell phone towers in Chattanooga, TN and surrounding areas that triangulation would be the way to go, but I'm wondering if the peaks and valleys may cause interference?

It's my understanding that it really doesn't matter who your cell phone carrier is when it comes to which towers handle calls?!

Wondering...does a phone ping even if turned off? How about if the phone is turned on but in an area with no reception?

Sleuthy1
08-08-2011, 07:25 AM
Sleuthy, the tornado was April 27, so the ballgame with teacher's appreciation had to be in May shortly before the end of the school year. (May 24), since they were making a donation for the other schools hit hard by the tornado. IMO

I'd like to know his timeline from 4/29 when GP left-- til the his call to LE too, which IIRC was in the early evening---late afternoon..after DN's call. I'm assuming he went to work that day before calling, but knowing how he "missed" the conference..we can't be sure. AD did say when she saw Matt that following week (Wed) she asked why he was going to work and not looking for GP ***I'd like to know TH's timeline also for that week-end....or a little prior. From the time she arrived in Chatt/SM to drop MP off till the phone ping on 5/2.

The timeline for DN, AD, TH and MP for these days would be important. Also, the mother JP. Especially the phone calls. IMO Maybe MP brushed AD and DN off nonchalantly, by saying she just went to cool off again. But the oddity of talking to AD..and then, IF true, he told the children she had gone to the lakehouse again. I don't think he told AD that because of her reaction on the SMM interview. JMHO

**It's very early...hope you can follow my scrambled thoughts!!

My bad ...you are correct ....I wrote May but meant April...Sorry.....too tired :loser: to post accurately I guess....thanks for the catch HollyBlue Thanks for the post...I agree with you

Oriah
08-08-2011, 07:32 AM
I found a reference to Insurance Bluff on an ATV forum that placed it at the end of Tower Rd in Prentice Cooper. Tower Rd is now Game Reserve Drive apparently. There is a bluffs at the end, but it is a long way from Big Fork. Not sure how helpful that is, but maybe it's a start.

35.033028,-85.450756 (Game Reserve Rd, Chattanooga, TN 37405, USA) - Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&q=35.033028,-85.450756%20%28Game%20Reserve%20Rd,%20Chattanooga, %20TN%2037405,%20USA%29)

I wonder if someone at Prentice Cooper could be contacted for clarification. Would they fess up to where all the wrecked cars were?

http://www.tn.gov/agriculture/publications/forestry/PCSF_map.pdf

Contact :

Jim Lane
PO Box 160
Hixson, TN 37343
(423) 658-5551

Some1Nose
08-08-2011, 07:43 AM
Em - Thanks for the tour of PC/BF. Wow...those videos of Prentice Cooper/Big Fork are not areas that a woman is going to go in to alone, especially when under stress, imo!

believe09
08-08-2011, 08:26 AM
Just want to expand on the reasoning for believing she went north...if "ok" figuratively speaking. IF GP was getting more paranoid by the minute or had a mental break of some kind...she may have even doubted AD's sincerity...and headed for family or other friends for a soft place.

I like this train of thought...that she was going to head for what she believed was a safe place. I keep going back to the women's shelters info she had been given, and the possibility that if she was in AlAnon, she reached out there.

Oriah
08-08-2011, 08:28 AM
BeanE: I looked for a map of Insurance Bluff before and couldn't find one. Also, I think there is another Insurance Bluff somewhere else in Tennessee, in another county. So you have to be sure the one you find is in the Hamilton/Sequatchie/Marion County areas.

My two cents about the phone pings :twocents:

I agree with Emeraldgem that the "north face" wouldn't be anywhere along Mountain Creek, but on the other side of the mountain (the Insurance Bluff/Sequatchie side). I wrote that once and got smacked down by someone so I hate to even post it again, but to me the highway going down through Prentice-Cooper would be the North Face.

But this might be a case of mind-over-words :crazy: and they were envisioning the mountain differently than we think. Whoever said that might be thinking that the ping came somewhere along the bluff "north" of Signal Mountain. In that case, we might consider that the W-Road that goes down the face is north of the Wal Mart and Suck Creek Road, and Roberts Mill Road comes down further north than that. Those roads are north of Signal and come down the bluff, therefore "north bluff."

Really it's just sloppy description by whomever said it. The mountain exists at an angle to the river, with Signal Point at the southerly end, and extending to the northeast like every other mountain in East Tennessee. They should have talked about the Red Bank side of the Mountain or the Prentice Cooper side of the mountain. Then we wouldn't still be discussing this.

However, I disagree that they can't pinpoint the towers. They should surely be able to tell whether she was near the river or up on the mountain - those towers wouldn't cover the same territory. The ones in the valley wouldn't cover the mountain, for instance. And the mountain can interfere with the signals also and block signals in certain places, so if one tower lost it and another picked it up, they could extrapolate the phone's position from that.

BBM: I agree entirely, ThoughtFox. Thanks for explaining so well.

BeanE
08-08-2011, 08:38 AM
BBM: I agree entirely, ThoughtFox. Thanks for explaining so well.

I also agree that LE can pinpoint the towers. It's my understanding that towers are what are on ping reports.

Is that correct, Oriah?

That's why I don't understand why we have two tower locations - north base and Walmart - for the last ping. The last ping, by my understanding, would be on the ping report as one and only one tower location. At least on ping reports I've seen.

believe09
08-08-2011, 08:45 AM
Ping reports are hard to read and follow as they show the tower bounces without necessarily defining them as that. However, experts know how to read them that is for sure and I feel confident that they have more specific information.

Oriah
08-08-2011, 08:59 AM
Ping reports are hard to read and follow as they show the tower bounces without necessarily defining them as that. However, experts know how to read them that is for sure and I feel confident that they have more specific information.

I agree, believe09. The possible tower bounces can be defined by thorough investigation (though I sure wish providers would find a way to make it easier!)

My frustration is now with other devices that ping- and why the jeep is not focused on. :banghead:

believe09
08-08-2011, 09:01 AM
I agree, believe09. The possible tower bounces can be defined by thorough investigation (though I sure wish providers would find a way to make it easier!)

My frustration is now with other devices that ping- and why the jeep is not focused on. :banghead:

It is times like this when I wish LE would do a little leak, lol, so we can decide what direction to head!!!! I have to assume they have vehicle/GPS pings. They have to. We know that they were available at one time, but we dont know how long they are kept.

I am certain at least Gail's siblings have the answer to that question-they have been amazing.

Oriah
08-08-2011, 09:11 AM
It is times like this when I wish LE would do a little leak, lol, so we can decide what direction to head!!!! I have to assume they have vehicle/GPS pings. They have to. We know that they were available at one time, but we dont know how long they are kept.

I am certain at least Gail's siblings have the answer to that question-they have been amazing.

I think that's a safe assumption to make (and you know what I think about assumptions!)

Not that I really want to throw more pings into this ping nightmare- but it would certainly help by locating where the jeep- or anything in it- last pinged; and if it matches up with any phones involved.

BeanE
08-08-2011, 09:20 AM
It is times like this when I wish LE would do a little leak, lol, so we can decide what direction to head!!!! I have to assume they have vehicle/GPS pings. They have to. We know that they were available at one time, but we dont know how long they are kept.

I am certain at least Gail's siblings have the answer to that question-they have been amazing.

But without any pings of any kind being released - with the exception of the brief statement by Diane about the north base - there's nothing we can do that I can see, except to make guesses.

Personally, I'm leaving it to SMPD and HCSO - and their use of the facilities offered to them by the TBI and FBI - to determine where the phone and Jeep were, and to set up searches when they determine it's the right time to do so.

Meanwhile, I'm doing the only thing I can think of, which is to keep tweeting out Gail's Jeep info, in hopes that someone my spot it, or remember having spotted it, and call in to LE.

Emeralgem
08-08-2011, 09:31 AM
Em - Thanks for the tour of PC/BF. Wow...those videos of Prentice Cooper/Big Fork are not areas that a woman is going to go in to alone, especially when under stress, imo!



You're welcome. I found those videos somewhat disturbing knowing they were filmed about two months after Gail disappeared.. Watching them and just wondering.. How frightened was she IF CC really saw her looking like a "Deer In Headlights" being held against her will that Saturday afternoon/early evening? Where is Gail? Is she in that forest somewhere?

IIRC..Didn't CC claim she last saw Gail around 6:00 pm on that Saturday?

Traveling back home yesterday, crossing the Olgaiti Bridge, the AT@T ballfield is on the left and BCBS now sits up on Cameron Hill on the right...I can't pass over the Tennesse River and that bridge w/o thinking about Gail and what happened to her... BTW..The DoubleTree and the others hotels mentioned are visible on the left from that location too.. Thinking about it makes me sick to my stomach..
I could't help but think IF Gail was being held captive somewhere in Prentice Cooper around 6:00 pm, how convenient for MP to be attending a Lookouts game that evening with the children...
I didn't attend any hometown games this season but IIRC night games usually start around 7:15 and the crowd could start filing in around 6:00 pm depending on what promotions are being offered for that night... I'm guessing he and the children were enroute to the ballfied or perhaps even there around 6:00 pm when Gail may have been seen in PC looking scared and frightened...Sad sad situation for Gail and her two children...JMHO

BeanE
08-08-2011, 10:33 AM
You're welcome. I found those videos somewhat disturbing knowing they were filmed about two months after Gail disappeared.. Watching them and just wondering.. How frightened was she IF CC really saw her looking like a "Deer In Headlights" being held against her will that Saturday afternoon/early evening? Where is Gail? Is she in that forest somewhere?

IIRC..Didn't CC claim she last saw Gail around 6:00 pm on that Saturday?

Traveling back home yesterday, crossing the Olgaiti Bridge, the AT@T ballfield is on the left and BCBS now sits up on Cameron Hill on the right...I can't pass over the Tennesse River and that bridge w/o thinking about Gail and what happened to her... BTW..The DoubleTree and the others hotels mentioned are visible on the left from that location too.. Thinking about it makes me sick to my stomach..
I could't help but think IF Gail was being held captive somewhere in Prentice Cooper around 6:00 pm, how convenient for MP to be attending a Lookouts game that evening with the children...
I didn't attend any hometown games this season but IIRC night games usually start around 7:15 and the crowd could start filing in around 6:00 pm depending on what promotions are being offered for that night... I'm guessing he and the children were enroute to the ballfied or perhaps even there around 6:00 pm when Gail may have been seen in PC looking scared and frightened...Sad sad situation for Gail and her two children...JMHO

BBM

New Possible Sighting Of The Missing Signal Mountain Mother Gail Palmgren
http://260169-web1.wdef.com/news/new_possible_sighting_of_the_missing_signal_mounta in_mother_gail_palmgren/06/2011
WDEF – June 13, 2011 – 6:07pm

between 4:00 and 6:30 at Insurance Rock in the Big Fork Road area on Signal Mountain

Another article:

Witness Says She Saw Gail Palmgren On Remote Signal Trail At Time She Disappeared
http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203258.asp
Chattanoogan – posted June 13, 2011

confused
08-08-2011, 10:46 AM
Where was MP post game until Monday ....That is a great deal of unaccounted for time. IMHO. I for one would like to know where MP says he was during that period of time, and if MP has anyone who can vouch for his story with regards to his whereabouts during that timespan.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]:twocents:

I'm pretty sure that Arlene D stated that she called and spoke with him at home on Sunday. I have no doubt she can tell you what time that was. We also know from either Arlene D or you that Matt took the children and got cell phones for them on Sunday. If you've shopped for a cell phone, you know that takes a while. Getting them for two kids HAS to be time consuming. That accounts for a couple of chunks of time. I think that Diane N. talked to him on Monday, and possibly even Sunday. Not positive if she called the home phone, but she would know.

Emeralgem
08-08-2011, 10:47 AM
BBM

New Possible Sighting Of The Missing Signal Mountain Mother Gail Palmgren
http://260169-web1.wdef.com/news/new_possible_sighting_of_the_missing_signal_mounta in_mother_gail_palmgren/06/2011
WDEF – June 13, 2011 – 6:07pm

between 4:00 and 6:30 at Insurance Rock in the Big Fork Road area on Signal Mountain

Another article:

Witness Says She Saw Gail Palmgren On Remote Signal Trail At Time She Disappeared
http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203258.asp
Chattanoogan – posted June 13, 2011

Thanks for the corrected time....IMO..How even more convenient for him IF CC is claiming she last saw Gail at 6:30 pm..JMHO

BeanE
08-08-2011, 10:51 AM
Thanks for the corrected time....IMO..How even more convenient for him IF CC is claiming she last saw Gail at 6:30 pm..JMHO

I wasn't correcting, I was confirming the time you gave. The times seem to be approximate. In another article, it says 'around dusk'.

Emeralgem
08-08-2011, 10:53 AM
I'm pretty sure that Arlene D stated that she called and spoke with him at home on Sunday. I have no doubt she can tell you what time that was. We also know from either Arlene D or you that Matt took the children and got cell phones for them on Sunday. If you've shopped for a cell phone, you know that takes a while. Getting them for two kids HAS to be time consuming. That accounts for a couple of chunks of time. I think that Diane N. talked to him on Monday, and possibly even Sunday. Not positive if she called the home phone, but she would know.

Just wondering do you know IF he purchased another phone for himself at that time...Also, was a telephone provided to him by BCBS? Did he have two phones?

Irish_Eyes
08-08-2011, 11:13 AM
Well, for me right now this is what I'm going to believe about the cell phone pings until we get better information:

There is no Sprint tower near Wal-mart. There is a Sprint tower Northwest of the mountain. The other Sprint towers are far (Chattanooga). May be possible to triangulate but might be difficult.

There is a Verizon tower near Wal-Mart. The other 2 Verizon towers are closer to the mountain and more spread out around it. I am tending to believe right now that Gail had Verizon and that her phone pinged off of the tower near Wal-Mart. Using that ping data they were able to triangulate via the other towers and determine that Gail's phone was off the north base of the mountain when it pinged from the Wal-mart tower. This is the only way I can reconcile the discrepancy in a way that makes sense with the location of the towers. Additionally, this is consistent with DN saying that the ping led LE to an area along the north base of the mountain.

believe09
08-08-2011, 11:23 AM
Just wondering do you know IF he purchased another phone for himself at that time...Also, was a telephone provided to him by BCBS? Did he have two phones?

GREAT questions.

BeanE
08-08-2011, 11:36 AM
published Tuesday, May 17th, 2011
Missing woman search continues for Gail Palmgren

Matthew Palmgren, who changed his cellphone number since last week

http://www.tfponline.com/news/2011/may/17/missing-woman-search-continues-gail-palmgren/

Sleuthy1
08-08-2011, 12:05 PM
http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_202911.asp

:twocents:MP given notice of Administrative leave by BCBS of TN ~ date unknown
Notice of Administrative Leave from BCBS of TN to Press was made on May 17, 2011
Notice of Termination ~ Letter of Termination was received by MP, according to his attorney's on Monday June 6, 2011
Announcement of Termination was made to Press on June 7, 2011:twocents:

http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/may/17/matthew-palmgren-leave-bluecross-job-attorney-says/

published on Tuesday, May 17th, 2011 in TFP

Matthew Palmgren on leave from BlueCross job, attorney says
by Staff Report


"Matthew Palmgren, the husband of a Signal Mountain woman who has been missing since April 30, has been put on administrative leave with pay by his employer, BlueCross Blue Shield of Tennessee, Palmgren’s attorney said today."

:twocents:So that would mean that MP reportedly got (at least) a new phone number for himself BEFORE he and TH were placed on Administrative Leave (as reported by MP's attorney's at the May 17th Press Conference). That says to me (IMO) that MP replaced (or added a new) phone BEFORE he received notice that he would be placed on Admin. Leave at BCBSofTN. :twocents: IMO ~ That tells me that MP got a new #, not to replace the BCBS cell phone he was about to loose, we don't know when MP was made aware that he was being put on leave. Reason for needing new # ... many I am sure.:twocents:

Husband Of Missing Signal Mountain Woman Is Fired By BlueCross
Hammond Says It Is "Highly Unusual" That Gail Palmgren's Jeep Not Yet Spotted

posted June 7, 2011 in The Chattanoogan

"Matt and Gail Palmgren
The husband of a missing Signal Mountain woman has been fired by BlueCross BlueShield from a high-ranking position.
Attorney Bryan Hoss confirmed that Matthew C. Palmgren, Pharm D., received a termination letter on Monday afternoon.
He had earlier been placed on administrative leave with pay."

Monday afternoon date for TERMINATION of employment at BCBS of TN would have been June 6th 2011.

Oriah
08-08-2011, 12:06 PM
I'm pretty sure that Arlene D stated that she called and spoke with him at home on Sunday. I have no doubt she can tell you what time that was. We also know from either Arlene D or you that Matt took the children and got cell phones for them on Sunday. If you've shopped for a cell phone, you know that takes a while. Getting them for two kids HAS to be time consuming. That accounts for a couple of chunks of time. I think that Diane N. talked to him on Monday, and possibly even Sunday. Not positive if she called the home phone, but she would know.

Hope you don't mind me jumping off of your post in a slightly different direction here, confused!

Do we know if this 'new' phone scenario involved transferring data from other phones, such as contact lists, pictures, etc? TIA.

BeanE
08-08-2011, 12:14 PM
http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/may/17/matthew-palmgren-leave-bluecross-job-attorney-says/

published on Tuesday, May 17th, 2011 in TFP

Matthew Palmgren on leave from BlueCross job, attorney says
by Staff Report


"Matthew Palmgren, the husband of a Signal Mountain woman who has been missing since April 30, has been put on administrative leave with pay by his employer, BlueCross Blue Shield of Tennessee, Palmgren’s attorney said today."

:twocents:So that would mean that MP reportedly got (at least) a new phone number for himself BEFORE he and TH were placed on Administrative Leave (as reported by MP's attorney's at the May 17th Press Conference). That says to me (IMO) that MP replaced (or added a new) phone BEFORE he received notice that he would be placed on Admin. Leave at BCBSofTN. :twocents: IMO ~ That tells me that MP got a new #, not to replace the BCBS cell phone he was about to loose, as he was not made aware that he was being put on leave until May 16th (article says MP received the letter from BCBS on Monday May 16th). Reason for needing new # ... many I am sure.:twocents:

Is that the right article link? I don't see where it says he got a letter on Monday May 16.

confused
08-08-2011, 12:25 PM
Just wondering do you know IF he purchased another phone for himself at that time...Also, was a telephone provided to him by BCBS? Did he have two phones?

I haven't heard anything about him getting a new phone at that time. I don't know how many phones he has or had and who provided them. I only know of one number, but he could have others, many people do. As for that Sunday, I only recall hearing that the children got new phones.

Oriah, from earlier discussions here and other places, we have been told that Matt got his son a new phone, replacing the previous one. I have no idea if info was transfered from one to the other, but would assume so, as we were told that he kept the same phone number, just got a new phone. Matt also got his daughter her first cell phone, so there would not have been a number or info to transfer, unless of course they could transfer her brother or father's contacts, etc. into hers. Hope that helps.

Emeralgem
08-08-2011, 12:37 PM
published Tuesday, May 17th, 2011
Missing woman search continues for Gail Palmgren

Matthew Palmgren, who changed his cellphone number since last week

http://www.tfponline.com/news/2011/may/17/missing-woman-search-continues-gail-palmgren/



The article below is dated Tuesday June 7, 2011.. According to Davis' statement he was terminated by letter on Monday, June 6, 2011..

Do we know IF he was actually terminated before he received the letter? According to the link you posted he changed his number about three weeks before he ever received the letter of termination from BCBS...

I did hear (from what I would refer to as a very reliable source) he was required to pay back BCBS the money the company had spent for him to attend the conference he never attended...


Matthew Palmgren was let go from his job Monday afternoon through a letter, said Lee Davis, a defense attorney, who is representing Palmgren.http://timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jun/07/chattanooga-husband-missing-woman-fired-bluecross-/?news

BeanE
08-08-2011, 12:44 PM
If we are going to start posting what we've heard from what we consider to be reliable sources, without any links or naming those sources, then I have a WHOLE lot to post!

Oriah
08-08-2011, 01:51 PM
If we are going to start posting what we've heard from what we consider to be reliable sources, without any links or naming those sources, then I have a WHOLE lot to post!

No, me first BeanE! Me first!

MsFacetious
08-08-2011, 02:54 PM
Wasn't going to post this, because originally I thought it was a large framed woman... but now other articles are saying a small framed woman. However, it is a white woman who has been there for a length of time. So I thought I would put it here just in case. I assume that it would be the wrong direction to have been from TN... but what do I know.

Woman's body recovered from Mississippi River

http://www.winonadailynews.com/news/local/article_caba889a-c1d6-11e0-b964-001cc4c03286.html

http://www.myjournalcourier.com/news/body-34482-county-calhoun.html

BeanE
08-08-2011, 03:00 PM
Wasn't going to post this, because originally I thought it was a large framed woman... but now other articles are saying a small framed woman. However, it is a white woman who has been there for a length of time. So I thought I would put it here just in case. I assume that it would be the wrong direction to have been from TN... but what do I know.

Woman's body recovered from Mississippi River

http://www.winonadailynews.com/news/local/article_caba889a-c1d6-11e0-b964-001cc4c03286.html

http://www.myjournalcourier.com/news/body-34482-county-calhoun.html



889 miles from the Pla-Mor Campground in Minnesota to Signal Mtn Tn:

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Signal+Mountain,+TN&daddr=22718+Little+Smokies+Lane,+Winona,+MN+55987+ (Pla-Mor+Campground+and+Marina)&hl=en&ll=38.169114,-83.012695&spn=18.998142,43.286133&sll=46.498392,-95.712891&sspn=33.34443,86.572266&geocode=FY3tFwIdl8Hp-inr5LkR5PVgiDFth-_8eyDW6g%3BFTqNnwIdhrCL-iHGCb8zzge7XA&mra=ls&t=h&z=5

Second article says LE estimates the body has been there 3 to 5 weeks.

MsFacetious
08-08-2011, 03:09 PM
889 miles from the Pla-Mor Campground in Minnesota to Signal Mtn Tn:

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Signal+Mountain,+TN&daddr=22718+Little+Smokies+Lane,+Winona,+MN+55987+ (Pla-Mor+Campground+and+Marina)&hl=en&ll=38.169114,-83.012695&spn=18.998142,43.286133&sll=46.498392,-95.712891&sspn=33.34443,86.572266&geocode=FY3tFwIdl8Hp-inr5LkR5PVgiDFth-_8eyDW6g%3BFTqNnwIdhrCL-iHGCb8zzge7XA&mra=ls&t=h&z=5

Second article says LE estimates the body has been there 3 to 5 weeks.

Yeah in the same article a few sentences before it says "quite a long time" and "likely months."

I just love the reporting on these things...

http://www.myjournalcourier.com/news/body-34482-county-calhoun.html

Emeralgem
08-08-2011, 04:36 PM
Yeah in the same article a few sentences before it says "quite a long time" and "likely months."

I just love the reporting on these things...

http://www.myjournalcourier.com/news/body-34482-county-calhoun.html

About 500 miles from Chattanooga..

http://mapq.st/oVkl52

ETA... Wonder IF that is Jacque Waller, isn't she from Mo.?

confused
08-08-2011, 06:06 PM
About 500 miles from Chattanooga..

http://mapq.st/oVkl52

ETA... Wonder IF that is Jacque Waller, isn't she from Mo.?



Whoever it turns out to be, it's so sad and I feel badly for the family and friends. Prayers for comfort and peace.

hollyblue
08-08-2011, 06:27 PM
Hope you don't mind me jumping off of your post in a slightly different direction here, confused!

Do we know if this 'new' phone scenario involved transferring data from other phones, such as contact lists, pictures, etc? TIA.

Good point. I think he changed the land line #..because of the press and maybe other people calling too. It also wouldn't surprise me if got a new cell, but kept the same number and didn't transfer the sims card?...but reprogrammed when buying phones that Sunday. Maybe GP did call BCBS....or somebody? He KNEW he was going to be let go because of the conference scam. No doubt....TH too. They would have asked for his company phone when placed on leave. IMO, this was his concern...and the most likely the reason for his reactions at the PC. He was found out....so no need to look/sound like a hypocrite in regards to GP.

hollyblue
08-08-2011, 06:46 PM
Yeah in the same article a few sentences before it says "quite a long time" and "likely months."

I just love the reporting on these things...

http://www.myjournalcourier.com/news/body-34482-county-calhoun.html

Sounds like two different bodies to me....over 400 miles apart. ?

hollyblue
08-08-2011, 06:52 PM
About 500 miles from Chattanooga..

http://mapq.st/oVkl52

ETA... Wonder IF that is Jacque Waller, isn't she from Mo.?

Wasn't he from Cape Girardeau....further south?....or was it her family was from there and he was further north from around the St Louis area? I'm not that familiar with her case. I guess he could have taken her up north to try and throw LE off. Map of the areas discussed:

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Winona,+MN&daddr=Winfield,+MO+to:Cape+Girardeau,+MO&hl=en&ll=39.639538,-90.615234&spn=7.781568,14.018555&sll=39.020251,-90.635147&sspn=0.245397,0.43808&geocode=FREeoAIdia2J-im1LomTc235hzEPZqIzwjXHBg%3BFRgNUwId5nCX-ilbi8DL8efehzE8WjePGfQ7uA%3BFRw-OQIdvA-q-in7d8-UNoV3iDGSX406_xyQgA&mra=ls&t=h&z=6

hollyblue
08-08-2011, 09:51 PM
OT:

Oriah, in the case of Celina Cass, they discovered her body around 10:30 AM, but did not remove her from the water until around 5PM. Located at a dam area with high walls and banks. Also, a black hawk was brought in, but we doubt it was used to pull her out because a group was seen pulling the cables and the basket up the concrete wall. Have any ideas on the time period and the use of the black hawk? Would the black hawk have been used for anything having to do with gaining other evidence? Radar, special photograhy, etc? Thanks....

ETA: Also, LE and divers were at another location late in the afternoon the previous day, when they were told about a bag near the site where she was eventually found and one left to go check it out. The divers were pulled and never entered the water again that day, and they stopped all ground searches; the next day they focused (divers) where she was found.

Emeralgem
08-08-2011, 11:41 PM
Wasn't he from Cape Girardeau....further south?....or was it her family was from there and he was further north from around the St Louis area? I'm not that familiar with her case. I guess he could have taken her up north to try and throw LE off. Map of the areas discussed:

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Winona,+MN&daddr=Winfield,+MO+to:Cape+Girardeau,+MO&hl=en&ll=39.639538,-90.615234&spn=7.781568,14.018555&sll=39.020251,-90.635147&sspn=0.245397,0.43808&geocode=FREeoAIdia2J-im1LomTc235hzEPZqIzwjXHBg%3BFRgNUwId5nCX-ilbi8DL8efehzE8WjePGfQ7uA%3BFRw-OQIdvA-q-in7d8-UNoV3iDGSX406_xyQgA&mra=ls&t=h&z=6

I am not very familar with her case either..I just recall reading she lived in Missouri.

conundrummed
08-09-2011, 12:01 AM
:twocents:I wouldn't think that Lookouts game was the Wednesday before GP went missing because MP would have been FAUX conference out of town with TH. As it was, MP UNEXPECTEDLY arrived back in SM around noonish that Friday (April 29th) correct? So, maybe the game you were referring to (the "teacher appreciation" game with the Lookouts game) actually took place the week before, possibly on May 20th 2011. The storms/tornadoes hit the SM area hard on Wednesday May 27th...so I don't think there would have been any BB games that Wednesday (the 27th). Maybe someone with more knowledge than myself can clear this question up some.

If not that is okay too, because GP was still with us at that point in time...so it really is not that important to this case.The Saturday game played on the evening of April 30th is another story and very important to this case. We know MP was seen at the game with their 2 children that evening. Where was MP post game until Monday when GP was finally reported missing at the urging of AD & DNN? That is a great deal of unaccounted for time. IMHO. I for one would like to know where MP says he was during that period of time, and if MP has anyone who can vouch for his story with regards to his whereabouts during that timespan.:twocents:
I knew I should have looked up exact dates before posting! MP was at the Lookouts Game Saturday, April 30th. Friends of ours who saw him there say he was having a blast. Very jovial, visible and engaging.
The Lookouts game that was school oriented was not until May 23rd. He was there too, with mom, kids, DN and KN.

Sleuthy1
08-09-2011, 12:51 AM
I knew I should have looked up exact dates before posting! MP was at the Lookouts Game Saturday, April 30th. Friends of ours who saw him there say he was having a blast. Very jovial, visible and engaging.
The Lookouts game that was school oriented was not until May 23rd. He was there too, with mom, kids, DN and KN.

:twocents:Referring to my original post regarding the Lookouts games in April. Only using your post conundrummed to make my apologies to ev1. Yes...Sorry to everyone. Clarification: I meant to say APRIL ...not May (so please insert the word APRIL in where you see May in that post about the BB games/Lookouts games prior to GP going missing on April 30, 2011). Was thinking April, but my fingers had something else in mind:loser:...darn dyslexic keyboard again....lol ...or maybe just exhausted. I will be more vigilant in the future and proof read more thoroughly before hitting SUBMIT:innocent:.

Some1Nose
08-09-2011, 04:49 AM
(snipped for space) I seem to recall that it was stated two or more threads back that Gail had Sprint service. And it was speculated that MP had Verizon since it would be a BCBS perk. Sorry, don't have a link, just now.

Wondering...does a phone ping even if turned off? How about if the phone is turned on but in an area with no reception?

(Quoting myself because wanted to provide links to substantiate my comment.)

Ahhhh....took me awhile but after going through a lot of posts, I found the posts I remembered having read. :great:

fbx, 06-29-2011, 9:14 AM:

"Gail is not on Verizon."

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6

Sleuthy1, 06-29-2011, 5:21 PM:

"For those of you who were wondering about GP's cell carrier...~it's SPRINT."

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6


As far as the second part of my quote goes...even when a cell phone is turned off, if the battery is charged, wouldn't it still be live for all intents and purposes (i.e. to generate pings)? Same for no reception area, would still ping?

Some1Nose
08-09-2011, 05:08 AM
You're welcome. I found those videos somewhat disturbing knowing they were filmed about two months after Gail disappeared.. Watching them and just wondering.. How frightened was she IF CC really saw her looking like a "Deer In Headlights" being held against her will that Saturday afternoon/early evening? Where is Gail? Is she in that forest somewhere?

...Sad sad situation for Gail and her two children...JMHO
(snipped for space by me)

Yep...scary indeed! There are so many heavily forested areas around there not to mention water ways and old mines, etc. that it truly is like looking for a needle in a haystack when trying to find a missing person and even a red jeep! And very sad....

Hopefully some of our advanced technology will help locate her sooner rather than later.

All IMO

Emeralgem
08-09-2011, 07:40 AM
I knew I should have looked up exact dates before posting! MP was at the Lookouts Game Saturday, April 30th. Friends of ours who saw him there say he was having a blast. Very jovial, visible and engaging.The Lookouts game that was school oriented was not until May 23rd. He was there too, with mom, kids, DN and KN.


BBM.. Imagine that... :banghead::furious: JMHO

BeanE
08-09-2011, 07:50 AM
I knew I should have looked up exact dates before posting! MP was at the Lookouts Game Saturday, April 30th. Friends of ours who saw him there say he was having a blast. Very jovial, visible and engaging.
The Lookouts game that was school oriented was not until May 23rd. He was there too, with mom, kids, DN and KN.

So Diane and Kevin went to a game with Matt on May 23. Interesting.

ETA & O/T:

♥♥¸.•*´¨`*•. ¸♥¨`*•.¸♥♥•.¸¸.•*´¨`*•.¸¸.•*´¨`*• Happy Women's Day •.¸¸.•*´¨`*•.¸¸.•*´¨`*•♥♥¸.•*´¨`*•. ¸♥¨`*•.¸♥♥

Oriah
08-09-2011, 08:28 AM
So Diane and Kevin went to a game with Matt on May 23. Interesting.

ETA & O/T:

♥♥¸.•*´¨`*•. ¸♥¨`*•.¸♥♥•.¸¸.•*´¨`*•.¸¸.•*´¨`*• Happy Women's Day •.¸¸.•*´¨`*•.¸¸.•*´¨`*•♥♥¸.•*´¨`*•. ¸♥¨`*•.¸♥♥

Confirmation?

Also, another question: do the Palmgrens store their boat and/or trailer anywhere during the winter season? TIA.

BeanE
08-09-2011, 08:58 AM
Confirmation?



You seem to have intended to quote this post, the one I quoted, rather than mine:



I knew I should have looked up exact dates before posting! MP was at the Lookouts Game Saturday, April 30th. Friends of ours who saw him there say he was having a blast. Very jovial, visible and engaging.
The Lookouts game that was school oriented was not until May 23rd. He was there too, with mom, kids, DN and KN.

glorias
08-09-2011, 09:01 AM
I knew I should have looked up exact dates before posting! MP was at the Lookouts Game Saturday, April 30th. Friends of ours who saw him there say he was having a blast. Very jovial, visible and engaging.

Huh. I'd like to back up a little bit and list the things we know were going on from the 27th to the 30th:

He had just been off with TH buying a car while skipping out on a conference. The conference is thought to be the Academy of Managed Care Pharmacy held April 27 to 29. (Link here. (http://www.wolterskluwer.com/Press/Calendar/Pages/amcp2011.aspx)) At one point, he called Gail to tell her he was seeing a lawyer; I think this was Tuesday the 27th IIRC.

On the 29th he came home early from the conference. There was the 911 incident where Gail was given the number of a safe place, but decided to go to the lake house with the kids and 2 dogs instead. On the 30th, Gail came back while calling LE and DN asking for help because she was scared. She dropped the kids off and left, somehow alerting MP to the fact the kids were there.

After all that, he was having a ton of fun that very evening.

MP seems to have been at the least irritated with Gail for leaving the kids "alone without supervision." Combine that irritation with the 911 incident the day before, the escalation of a pending divorce, and work stress from skipping out on a conference with the co-worker he was dating, you'd think he would be anything BUT jovial.

Oriah
08-09-2011, 09:01 AM
You are correct, Bean.

My apologies.

Oriah
08-09-2011, 09:08 AM
Another question: I'm interested in the SM residence and AL residence land lines.

I would hope LE would have checked routers and boxes?
Were they checked prior to Gail's disappearance? When was the last service call out to either residence? TIA if anyone has this info.

Emeralgem
08-09-2011, 11:03 AM
Huh. I'd like to back up a little bit and list the things we know were going on from the 27th to the 30th:

He had just been off with TH buying a car while skipping out on a conference. The conference is thought to be the Academy of Managed Care Pharmacy held April 27 to 29. (Link here. (http://www.wolterskluwer.com/Press/Calendar/Pages/amcp2011.aspx)) At one point, he called Gail to tell her he was seeing a lawyer; I think this was Tuesday the 27th IIRC.
On the 29th he came home early from the conference. There was the 911 incident where Gail was given the number of a safe place, but decided to go to the lake house with the kids and 2 dogs instead. On the 30th, Gail came back while calling LE and DN asking for help because she was scared. She dropped the kids off and left, somehow alerting MP to the fact the kids were there.

After all that, he was having a ton of fun that very evening.

MP seems to have been at the least irritated with Gail for leaving the kids "alone without supervision." Combine that irritation with the 911 incident the day before, the escalation of a pending divorce, and work stress from skipping out on a conference with the co-worker he was dating, you'd think he would be anything BUT jovial.

Glorias, The Tuesday before Gail disappeared would have been the 26th..The storms came through on Wednesday the 27th of April..

IMO..In reference to all his jovial, engaging behavior at the "Lookouts" game on the 30th I suspect it was all well planned and staged...IMO.. I also suspect he felt it most necessary to make certain he was highly visible to others on that particular evening..... JMHO..

Oriah
08-09-2011, 11:34 AM
OT:

Oriah, in the case of Celina Cass, they discovered her body around 10:30 AM, but did not remove her from the water until around 5PM. Located at a dam area with high walls and banks. Also, a black hawk was brought in, but we doubt it was used to pull her out because a group was seen pulling the cables and the basket up the concrete wall. Have any ideas on the time period and the use of the black hawk? Would the black hawk have been used for anything having to do with gaining other evidence? Radar, special photograhy, etc? Thanks....

ETA: Also, LE and divers were at another location late in the afternoon the previous day, when they were told about a bag near the site where she was eventually found and one left to go check it out. The divers were pulled and never entered the water again that day, and they stopped all ground searches; the next day they focused (divers) where she was found.

hollyblue, could you re-post in Celina's thread and I'll answer there? Thanks.

Oriah
08-09-2011, 11:41 AM
I'm STILL working on the cell phone issue (says Oriah, whilst banging head against wall...)

Does Gail- with Sprint- have an activated automatic email delivery to her phone? And if so- where was it set up? What wireless network, and when? Is it authenticated for international use?

Are there perhaps multiple duplicates of emails on a wireless access device somewhere?

almino
08-09-2011, 04:21 PM
There are key pieces that we learned early on. Things that would seem to be mandatory for LE to investigate:

- What info did Gail's PI find? What are her PI's thoughts on this case? (besides Matt meeting w/people; finding MP was seeing someone)
- WHAT did Matt use the borrowed $40k on from Gail's retirement account for?
- WHO were the people that Matt was meeting with prior to Gail's disappearance/what was the nature?

Do we have any definites on these? It could be possible Matt borrowed the $$ for Tammy's car or house or whatever. It could also be that he borrowed to hire a hit man and that's who he was meeting with.

If the latter is the case, then the "sighting" on the trail would seem more plausible and that she was with someone who would do harm. That person could have forced her into the blue truck sighted and then left with her jeep and cell phone. Hence no more Gail and her cell pings while in someones possession.

Matt's activities should be investigated - were they??? Have I missed definite statments made by LE about these kinds of details?

Snowbunny
08-09-2011, 04:52 PM
There are key pieces that we learned early on. Things that would seem to be mandatory for LE to investigate:

- What info did Gail's PI find? What are her PI's thoughts on this case? (besides Matt meeting w/people; finding MP was seeing someone)
- WHAT did Matt use the borrowed $40k on from Gail's retirement account for?
- WHO were the people that Matt was meeting with prior to Gail's disappearance/what was the nature?

Do we have any definites on these? It could be possible Matt borrowed the $$ for Tammy's car or house or whatever. It could also be that he borrowed to hire a hit man and that's who he was meeting with.

If the latter is the case, then the "sighting" on the trail would seem more plausible and that she was with someone who would do harm. That person could have forced her into the blue truck sighted and then left with her jeep and cell phone. Hence no more Gail and her cell pings while in someones possession.

Matt's activities should be investigated - were they??? Have I missed definite statments made by LE about these kinds of details?

Did Carol give a discription of the truck that she saw Gail parked by on the 30th of April? Where did the color "Blue" truck come from? TIA

Sleuthy1
08-09-2011, 05:50 PM
Did Carol give a discription of the truck that she saw Gail parked by on the 30th of April? Where did the color "Blue" truck come from? TIA

IIRC :twocents: There was no mention if the truck color at all in CC's alleged sighting? Anyone recall differently?

Snowbunny
08-09-2011, 05:56 PM
IIRC :twocents: There was no mention if the truck color at all in CC's alleged sighting? Anyone recall differently?

I hadn't heard any mention of a color for the so called truck either and that's why I was asking where the color "Blue" came from.

Emeralgem
08-09-2011, 06:22 PM
There are key pieces that we learned early on. Things that would seem to be mandatory for LE to investigate:

- What info did Gail's PI find? What are her PI's thoughts on this case? (besides Matt meeting w/people; finding MP was seeing someone)
- WHAT did Matt use the borrowed $40k on from Gail's retirement account for?
- WHO were the people that Matt was meeting with prior to Gail's disappearance/what was the nature?

Do we have any definites on these? It could be possible Matt borrowed the $$ for Tammy's car or house or whatever. It could also be that he borrowed to hire a hit man and that's who he was meeting with.

If the latter is the case, then the "sighting" on the trail would seem more plausible and that she was with someone who would do harm. That person could have forced her into the blue truck sighted and then left with her jeep and cell phone. Hence no more Gail and her cell pings while in someones possession.

Matt's activities should be investigated - were they??? Have I missed definite statments made by LE about these kinds of details?

BBM.. I have most certainly entertained those thoughts especially the latter in reference to him hiring a hit man and using Gail's money to do it....JMHO..

BeanE
08-09-2011, 06:41 PM
O/T - locals, please be careful. There are tweets coming up from reporters & news stations that there are reported sightings of those three fugitive siblings in Chattanooga.

confused
08-09-2011, 07:04 PM
IIRC :twocents: There was no mention if the truck color at all in CC's alleged sighting? Anyone recall differently?

I don't think that CC said anything about color, or even make/model. It was the psychic that said something about blue.

Some1Nose
08-09-2011, 08:02 PM
There are key pieces that we learned early on. Things that would seem to be mandatory for LE to investigate:

- WHAT did Matt use the borrowed $40k on from Gail's retirement account for?
- WHO were the people that Matt was meeting with prior to Gail's disappearance/what was the nature?

Do we have any definites on these? It could be possible Matt borrowed the $$ for Tammy's car or house or whatever. It could also be that he borrowed to hire a hit man and that's who he was meeting with.

If the latter is the case, then the "sighting" on the trail would seem more plausible and that she was with someone who would do harm. That person could have forced her into the blue truck sighted and then left with her jeep and cell phone. Hence no more Gail and her cell pings while in someones possession.

(Respectfully snipped for space.)

I have always wondered about the same two reasons you mentioned for the $40,000. MP told Gail he just had to have, especially the one about buying items (i.e. vehicle, dp for home) for TH. Regarding the $400. withdrawals MP made every few days, I wondered about MFH or some kind of addiction, i.e. gambling, etc. (A friend of mine that I've discussed Gail's case with suggested that maybe MP is being blackmailed...hmmmm.)

As far as the cell pings go...please corrrect me if I am misunderstanding you, but are you saying you don't believe her cell phone was with her if the alledged sighting by CC is correct? That would lead me to believe that someone local is responsible for disappearing Gail, under this scenario, since the last ping was noted at approx. 5:00 pm on 5/2 (nearly 2 full days since the last confirmed sighting of Gail) still on or near SM.

All IMHO

Some1Nose
08-09-2011, 08:05 PM
I don't think that CC said anything about color, or even make/model. It was the psychic that said something about blue.

Confused - Not trying to dispute you, but I recall one psychic somewhere in Europe, I do believe, thought the truck was "green". :twocents: fwiw

confused
08-09-2011, 08:19 PM
IMO..In reference to all his jovial, engaging behavior at the "Lookouts" game on the 30th ..

Snipped by me to save space


To be fair and honest, I have never seen him any other way. He is always jovial and engaging. I don't believe that was staged or faked, it is his normal manner.


This was posted by MacGyver about Matt, way back in thread 3.
"I've known him 15 years and always thought he was a great guy--he has even been a guest in my home on multiple occasions. However, as many of us have stated, no one knows what goes on behind closed doors."

believe09
08-09-2011, 08:21 PM
Now I am in a circle-did msm or LE discuss the 40K and the 400.00 per day?

confused
08-09-2011, 08:22 PM
Confused - Not trying to dispute you, but I recall one psychic somewhere in Europe, I do believe, thought the truck was "green". :twocents: fwiw

No problem...it may have been green that was said. I just remember there were 2 psychic things that came about the same time and one of them stated a color for the truck.

confused
08-09-2011, 08:24 PM
Now I am in a circle-did msm or LE discuss the 40K and the 400.00 per day?

I have wondered this also. The only info about this that I remember seeing was from Arlene D. When the $40,000 was discussed before, I asked the same question and I don't think it was ever answered.

Some1Nose
08-09-2011, 08:41 PM
Now I am in a circle-did msm or LE discuss the 40K and the 400.00 per day?

Now, you know what this means, don't you?!! :crazy: Looking through the posts (the long posts....) again! :woohoo::woohoo:

Need to go for now...but will look later if noone else comes up with an answer in the interim....:innocent:

believe09
08-09-2011, 08:51 PM
I can look Some1-no worries. I dont believe the information was ever confirmed by MSM or LE, but I can check and post. :)

Emeralgem
08-09-2011, 08:53 PM
Snipped


To be fair and honest, I have never seen him any other way. He is always jovial and engaging. I don't believe that was staged or faked, it is his normal manner.

This was posted by MacGyver about Matt, way back in thread 3.
"I've known him 15 years and always thought he was a great guy--he has even been a guest in my home on multiple occasions. However, as many of us have stated, no one knows what goes on behind closed doors."

IMO..In reference to myself I fully suspect there just may be two sides to Mr. MP... Dr. Jeckyl - Mr. Hyde comes to mind...JMHO

Emeralgem
08-09-2011, 09:00 PM
Now I am in a circle-did msm or LE discuss the 40K and the 400.00 per day?

To my knowledge, no, but I certainly hope LE is aware of this information and checking it all out..JMHO

glorias
08-09-2011, 09:19 PM
The $40,000 and $400 was reported in the MSM as info from AD:


Arlene said Gail told her that Matt became pressed for cash and he asked her to withdraw $20,000 from her retirement account. She said Gail told her that money was gone in three weeks and Matt asked for another $20,000, which she assented to.

She said Gail told her she went to their bank to review the records and was startled to find "that Matt was getting $400 every couple of days from an ATM."

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203035.asp

Edited to add that the chattanoogan.com article I quoted, plus this timeline on WBRCtv:

http://www.wrcbtv.com/story/14669942/timeline-leading-up-to-palmgrens-disapearance

are both hugely helpful. I highly recommend them both.

hollyblue
08-09-2011, 09:39 PM
BBM.. I have most certainly entertained those thoughts especially the latter in reference to him hiring a hit man and using Gail's money to do it....JMHO..

JMO, but I think AD knows the reason why for the $40 because GP mentioned it to her. Knowing AD...she ask why. I just think she doesn't want to bring it public.

I'd like the PI's speculations also. Does he think GP left on her own?

glorias
08-09-2011, 09:40 PM
Regarding the blue truck, someone in June on a psychic forum said they were "getting something" about a teal blue Honda. It wasn't even the blog post, just a comment to a blog post.

There is nothing public about CC's description of the truck. She may have told LE (and I assume she did) but it was not mentioned in the media. Since we haven't heard anything about the sighting since, I really wonder what (if anything) LE thinks about it.

hollyblue
08-09-2011, 09:41 PM
I don't think that CC said anything about color, or even make/model. It was the psychic that said something about blue.

I though the psychic mentioned green? ETA: Nevermind. Thanks confused.

glorias
08-09-2011, 09:47 PM
By the way, last week Callie Starns tweeted that the rest of the searches were going to be this week:


Callie Starnes
UPDATE: Authorities to likely complete their search of Matthew Palmgren's properties next week, w/ 2 homes in AL. #missingmom #gailpalmgren
4 Aug

Has anyone heard anything about the searches? We're already past Tuesday so surely something has been searched by now, at least I would hope.

Emeralgem
08-09-2011, 10:34 PM
JMO, but I think AD knows the reason why for the $40 because GP mentioned it to her. Knowing AD...she ask why. I just think she doesn't want to bring it public.

I'd like the PI's speculations also. Does he think GP left on her own?

To my knowledge LE and the MSM have never revealed the name of the PI Gail hired.. Do any of us even know IF he has come forward? Did he provide Gail with evidence concerning MP meeting with an unidentified person after he was seen withdrawing funds from the ATM? This has always been a concern of mine, especially IF there are pictures and Gail could identify the unidentified person IF she ever saw him/her..JMHO

almino
08-09-2011, 11:01 PM
Oops, sorry all. I'm not sure where I got blue truck from, the article says "pickup truck". Nonetheless, IF it were Gail being made to go to the pickup truck, for all we know there was a driver of that truck and Gail was forced into that truck. Very easy for someone else to drive away with her jeep/phone.

almino
08-09-2011, 11:11 PM
(Respectfully snipped for space.)

As far as the cell pings go...please corrrect me if I am misunderstanding you, but are you saying you don't believe her cell phone was with her if the alledged sighting by CC is correct? That would lead me to believe that someone local is responsible for disappearing Gail, under this scenario, since the last ping was noted at approx. 5:00 pm on 5/2 (nearly 2 full days since the last confirmed sighting of Gail) still on or near SM.

All IMHO

Yes, that is my theory IF Gail disappeared at the hand of someone on 4/30. In my mind, just because her phone pinged on 5/2, that doesn't mean it was her. It was near her MIL's house, correct? Someone intimate could have had the phone until it ran out, or it could simply have been tossed.

Unless, she is laying somewhere injured/dead within the ping area. I don't really see why she would be driving around that area 2 days after she goes missing.

almino
08-09-2011, 11:26 PM
To my knowledge LE and the MSM have never revealed the name of the PI Gail hired.. Do any of us even know IF he has come forward? Did he provide Gail with evidence concerning MP meeting with an unidentified person after he was seen withdrawing funds from the ATM? This has always been a concern of mine, especially IF there are pictures and Gail could identify the unidentified person IF she ever saw him/her..JMHO
Hmm, so maybe Matt was getting money and meeting this person to place bets - gambling? Or get drugs? Wouldn't you think a good PI or LE would investigate this to its end to find out WHO exactly this person was and what his relation to Matt was? I thought somewhere it mentioned he met with various people.

hollyblue
08-10-2011, 12:44 AM
Hmm, so maybe Matt was getting money and meeting this person to place bets - gambling? Or get drugs? Wouldn't you think a good PI or LE would investigate this to its end to find out WHO exactly this person was and what his relation to Matt was? I thought somewhere it mentioned he met with various people.

KY Derby was the first w/e in May....I'd bet my $ they had been to it while living in Louisville. Remember the $1800.00 bar bill mentioned by AD? Are there any gambling spots in Chatt? Riverboat? Casinos? Or just gambling on the side at local bars?