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Salem
08-11-2011, 07:48 PM
Please continue here.

Thread 5

ALSO - please remember, we do NOT sleuth minors, we do NOT post identifying information about minors, we do NOT name minors.

If a minor is a victim or has been publically named by LE as a perp, then their name may be used. In this particular case, the ONLY minor that may be identified by name is Max, because he was a victim. ALL other minors are OFF THE TABLE.

This is a strict rule and your cooperation is appreciated.

Thanks,

Salem

ETA: Further explanation on minor names. Even when quoting from MSM or other sources, if the minor is not the victim or the perp, we change the name to initials. We do NOT quote the name of the minor. This is to protect the minor. Please keep that in mind. Try to put yourself in the shoes of the parent of that minor. What would you think if your child's name was splattered all over the web.

Thanks Guys!
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/misc/progress.gif

arielilane
08-11-2011, 09:17 PM
From Dr. Drew 8/10/11

BONN: Well, I studied patterns of serial killers, and this almost looks like staging. It looks like that this may have been some sort of a deliberate attempt at humiliation and in retribution of some sort. It smacks of sex and rage in my estimation based upon what we know at this point, but of course, we have to get the results from toxicology.

PINSKY: I`m so sorry. I`m running out of time. Should we be looking at a broader ring of suspects here? Or do any of the people that we know about fit what you`re profiling?

BONN: She was just recently divorced and changed her name back to her maiden name two months before she died. So, I might look in that direction as well.

PINSKY: Very interesting. Thank you to my panel.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1108/10/ddhln.01.html

arielilane
08-11-2011, 09:20 PM
Panel who joined Dr. Drew's show 8/10/11

PINSKY (on-camera): And joining me now is Jen Heger. She is Radar Online`s legal editor. Lonnie Coombs is a former Los Angeles County prosecutor. Scott Bond is a criminologist and assistant professor at Drew University. He studies the media.

CuriousAmazon
08-11-2011, 09:33 PM
There is no proof JS was going to marry Rebecca. That was a statement from a "close friend" of JS. BS! Maybe possibly one day, but he hadn't put a ring on it, hence the "girlfriend" status not the "fiancee" status. It appears that JS's PR folks wanted him to put him in the best light.

CuriousAmazon
08-11-2011, 09:46 PM
Source: http://www.footnoted.com/perk-city/extreme-flextime-in-troubled-times-at-medicis/
August 11, 2011 at 10:52 am by Theo Francis

Extreme flextime in troubled times at Medicis…

Snipped:

Under Shacknai’s contract, that could trigger a sizable payout if he’s eased out after a sale: 3x salary and bonus, lifetime health benefits, $225,000 over three years for administrative support and services, and more.

Plus, on the same day that Shacknai signed his new contract, the company established a new executive pension program, effective retroactively back to June 1. It’s not yet clear exactly how big Shacknai’s pension will be under the plan, but he’s eligible for an annual payout of up to 50% of his average earnings each year for 20 years, and the 10-Q shows the company has already accrued a $33.8-million liability for an unspecified number of participants in the plan.

That said, Shacknai couldn’t claim the full pension immediately: He and the others earn a sixth of it each year through 2016 — or all at once if the company is acquired.

CuriousAmazon
08-11-2011, 09:58 PM
http://thesocialdiary.com/images/oscardelarenta_05_007.jpg

Sharing link only; photo is copyrighted.

4Jacy
08-11-2011, 10:24 PM
RE: JS - I agree 4Jacy, it's possible but, in my opinion at this point, not probable.

RE: DS - As you wisely said, "a whole different story" !!! After following this case I think I can fully understand the strong possibility of her built up rage against RN. I can imagine it, I can manifest it and I can imagine how that rage could uncontrollably explode.

BBM
YES, Quester, I am in full agreement with the above. However, someone said (not you) early on that DS saw her meal ticket taken away because of Maxie's death. That unearthed me! No mother would ever, in God's green earth, be thinking about that when her child has just died.

RE: Your statement, "this 'case' will never go to court"; are you thinking there will be a plea or are you thinking because of the $$$$s charges will not be made?

I can't imagine a plea. I truly think it will be all about the $$$$ and the power. As usual.

Nite all, :seeya:

CuriousAmazon
08-11-2011, 10:33 PM
RE: Thread 5

Rebecca Zahau has two younger "adolescent" siblings, a brother (JZ) & sister (XZ). She's in middle sch.,...they are a couple of years apart.

Rebecca is from a family of 6. I believe her sister MZL is the eldest, with Rebecca being the 2nd oldest.

katydid23
08-11-2011, 11:53 PM
RE: JS - I agree 4Jacy, it's possible but, in my opinion at this point, not probable.

RE: DS - As you wisely said, "a whole different story" !!! After following this case I think I can fully understand the strong possibility of her built up rage against RN. I can imagine it, I can manifest it and I can imagine how that rage could uncontrollably explode.

BBM
YES, Quester, I am in full agreement with the above. However, someone said (not you) early on that DS saw her meal ticket taken away because of Maxie's death. That unearthed me! No mother would ever, in God's green earth, be thinking about that when her child has just died.

RE: Your statement, "this 'case' will never go to court"; are you thinking there will be a plea or are you thinking because of the $$$$s charges will not be made?
I can't imagine a plea. I truly think it will be all about the $$$$ and the power. As usual.
Nite all, :seeya:

BBM
I agree. Her anger and rage would not be about her meal ticket at all. It was about losing her husband and then, worst of all, her little son's life. I would be seething with rage if I were her. And I could be angry enough to lash out if I thought the woman was actually negligent and responsible for my child's death. But I cannot see myself going through all of that weird staging and tying knots and hogtying and throwing bodies over balconies...

CuriousAmazon
08-12-2011, 12:13 AM
Nite all, :seeya:

G'Night 4Jacy & fellow WS.

:dance: Inobu, nice to see you back online!:dance:

:bedtime:

defense101
08-12-2011, 01:04 AM
Rebecca Zahau has two younger "adolescent" siblings, a brother (JZ) & sister (XZ). She's in middle sch.,...they are a couple of years apart.

Rebecca is from a family of 6. I believe her sister MZL is the eldest, with Rebecca being the 2nd oldest. Are those her bros and sis or niece and nephew?

IWannaKnow
08-12-2011, 01:44 AM
Hi everybody! I just finished reading this thread and have some thoughts I would like to share, all IMO of course:
1) Based upon pictures I've seen, DS is not a small woman. She also clearly has a temper. I wonder how her relationship was with AS? Did they still speak, get along?
2) RN appeared very petite (although fit) and had a pronounced limp.
3) Dogs will get involved in arguments, generally trying to STOP whom ever they see as the agressor. The marks I saw in the photo of DS looked like claw marks of a dog jumping up on her back which is what would be available if she were choking JS. I believe this was the incident where JS says she choked him. If the dog saw her as a threat, I could easily see it getting involved all on it's own with no urging by JS and no animosity by the dog. German Shepards are very protective anyway. IMHO, that bruise was no dog bite.
4) The stairs were carpeted. Thick, luxurious carpeting. 11 steps maximum. That is all. It had a landing and two sets of stairs. He couldn't have fallen down both sets. That must have been a heck of a fall for a healthy six year old to stop breathing or having a pulse. That would have made some noise I would think. I'm having a hard time with that. Perhaps RN was cleaning, getting ready for the party she was supposed to have and didn't hear? Perhaps the puppy tripped Max at the top of the stairs? The sister called it in. How long did he lay there?
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?clienttype=printable&redirected=true
5) I don't think that is a scarf. I think it is some kind of medical product from the EMTs. You can even see a package a distance from her head and the "scarf" is exactly the color of blue they make most disposable medical products.
6) Are electrical cords a common item used to hang oneself with? I would never think of running to the garage for an electical cord but that is just me. Seems like a lot of trouble. And so very very public.

That being said, I see two possible scenarios:

RN is sleeping, nude, and is surprised by an intruder who proceeds to choke her to death, and cover the murder by making it look like a suicide tossing her body over the balcony.

or

RN, overcome with guilt and completely distraught, runs cord out, goes outside and pulls the table over under the balcony. RN sits on the table, ties her ankles, puts the noose over her head, somehow ties her hands behind her back and proceeds to scoot off the table. This action causes one leg to break off the very weathered teak table (yes, I know teak isn't supposed to break....), the cord stretches and RN is hanging low the ground. Rigor mortis sets in and causes her legs to be at an angle. All very difficult in the middle of the night in the dark. I would think that would make some noise as well.

I don't know if it is accurate, but I read here that she was Burmese. The Japanese occupied Burma for many years. I found that Jigai was a version of seppuku practiced by Japanese women. They would tie their legs together so they would be "decent" when they were found. Dunno that it has anything to do with this, but thought I would throw it into the ring. I can't understand why she would be worried about that since she was nude however..........

Jigai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Femme-47-ronin-seppuku-p1000701.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/Femme-47-ronin-seppuku-p1000701.jpg/220px-Femme-47-ronin-seppuku-p1000701.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/af/Femme-47-ronin-seppuku-p1000701.jpg/220px-Femme-47-ronin-seppuku-p1000701.jpg

Morag
08-12-2011, 01:45 AM
Rebecca Zahau has two younger "adolescent" siblings, a brother (JZ) & sister (XZ). She's in middle sch.,...they are a couple of years apart.

Rebecca is from a family of 6. I believe her sister MZL is the eldest, with Rebecca being the 2nd oldest.

Is there any possibility that Rebecca's sister WAS also there that day (the other girl frequently mentioned is 14 rather than 13)? That would add a very interesting element to this story.

Wendy101
08-12-2011, 01:51 AM
Is there any possibility that Rebecca's sister WAS also there that day (the other girl frequently mentioned is 14 rather than 13)? That would add a very interesting element to this story.

Well, whoever called in the 911- wasn't very familiar with the physical address...:waitasec:

gngr~snap
08-12-2011, 02:00 AM
Hi everybody! I just finished reading this thread and have some thoughts I would like to share, all IMO of course:
1) Based upon pictures I've seen, DS is not a small woman. She also clearly has a temper. I wonder how her relationship was with AS? Did they still speak, get along?
2) RN appeared very petite (although fit) and had a pronounced limp.
3) Dogs will get involved in arguments, generally trying to STOP whom ever they see as the agressor. The marks I saw in the photo of DS looked like claw marks of a dog jumping up on her back which is what would be available if she were choking JS. I believe this was the incident where JS says she choked him. If the dog saw her as a threat, I could easily see it getting involved all on it's own with no urging by JS and no animosity by the dog. German Shepards are very protective anyway. IMHO, that bruise was no dog bite.
4) The stairs were carpeted. Thick, luxurious carpeting. 11 steps maximum. That is all. It had a landing and two sets of stairs. He couldn't have fallen down both sets. That must have been a heck of a fall for a healthy six year old to stop breathing or having a pulse. That would have made some noise I would think. I'm having a hard time with that. Perhaps RN was cleaning, getting ready for the party she was supposed to have and didn't hear? Perhaps the puppy tripped Max at the top of the stairs? The sister called it in. How long did he lay there?
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?clienttype=printable&redirected=true
5) I don't think that is a scarf. I think it is some kind of medical product from the EMTs. You can even see a package a distance from her head and the "scarf" is exactly the color of blue they make most disposable medical products.
6) Are electrical cords a common item used to hang oneself with? I would never think of running to the garage for an electical cord but that is just me. Seems like a lot of trouble. And so very very public.

That being said, I see two possible scenarios:

RN is sleeping, nude, and is surprised by an intruder who proceeds to choke her to death, and cover the murder by making it look like a suicide tossing her body over the balcony.

or

RN, overcome with guilt and completely distraught, runs cord out, goes outside and pulls the table over under the balcony. RN sits on the table, ties her ankles, puts the noose over her head, somehow ties her hands behind her back and proceeds to scoot off the table. This action causes one leg to break off the very weathered teak table (yes, I know teak isn't supposed to break....), the cord stretches and RN is hanging low the ground. Rigor mortis sets in and causes her legs to be at an angle. All very difficult in the middle of the night in the dark. I would think that would make some noise as well.

I don't know if it is accurate, but I read here that she was Burmese. The Japanese occupied Burma for many years. I found that Jigai was a version of seppuku practiced by Japanese women. They would tie their legs together so they would be "decent" when they were found. Dunno that it has anything to do with this, but thought I would throw it into the ring. I can't understand why she would be worried about that since she was nude however..........

Jigai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Femme-47-ronin-seppuku-p1000701.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/af/Femme-47-ronin-seppuku-p1000701.jpg/220px-Femme-47-ronin-seppuku-p1000701.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/a/af/Femme-47-ronin-seppuku-p1000701.jpg/220px-Femme-47-ronin-seppuku-p1000701.jpg
ohh.. My son stood up and fell out of the grocery cart at Kroger when he was about 18 mos old!
It was the most horrid sound. T H U N K
it haunts me to this day! and he is 18 now.
people came running looking for the sound, from several aisles away. Yes we were in the diaper aisle.
Tokk him almost two minutes to cry! he didn't fall TOO far, but he got a full work up anyway.
Someone in the home would have heard it (I think)
I still wonder if anyone SAW him fall or just found him on the floor.

4Jacy
08-12-2011, 03:16 AM
BBM
I agree. Her anger and rage would not be about her meal ticket at all. It was about losing her husband and then, worst of all, her little son's life. I would be seething with rage if I were her. And I could be angry enough to lash out if I thought the woman was actually negligent and responsible for my child's death. But I cannot see myself going through all of that weird staging and tying knots and hogtying and throwing bodies over balconies...


BBM

katy I agree with the bolded above. I would more than "lash out"(if you know what I mean,) if something happened to my child due to negligence. But it would be clean and quick; very, very quick!!

Quester
08-12-2011, 09:23 AM
Rebecca Zahau has two younger "adolescent" siblings, a brother (JZ) & sister (XZ). She's in middle sch.,...they are a couple of years apart.

Rebecca is from a family of 6. I believe her sister MZL is the eldest, with Rebecca being the 2nd oldest.

Could you provide a link please? Thx.


ETA: The following is the only reference I have seen to RN's younger siblings and two of the younger sound like they are adults:

She was a role model to her younger siblings. She adored her nephew and niece. Rebecca was taken from us far too soon. It is hard to accept that she will not be a part of our lives as her younger brother and sister gets married, her nephew and niece graduates from high school, with the birth of new members, and the other many family milestones ahead of us.

http://www.meierhoffer.com/obituaries/rebecca-m-zahau-2/

CuriousHousewife
08-12-2011, 09:34 AM
Well, whoever called in the 911- wasn't very familiar with the physical address...:waitasec:

I guess I am out of the loop, not having much time lately to follow, but where can I find transcripts of the 911 call? Last I heard they weren't releasing it, but it sounds like you know the content of the call.

scorekeeper
08-12-2011, 09:34 AM
Source: http://www.footnoted.com/perk-city/extreme-flextime-in-troubled-times-at-medicis/
August 11, 2011 at 10:52 am by Theo Francis

Extreme flextime in troubled times at Medicis…

Snipped:

Under Shacknai’s contract, that could trigger a sizable payout if he’s eased out after a sale: 3x salary and bonus, lifetime health benefits, $225,000 over three years for administrative support and services, and more.

Plus, on the same day that Shacknai signed his new contract, the company established a new executive pension program, effective retroactively back to June 1. It’s not yet clear exactly how big Shacknai’s pension will be under the plan, but he’s eligible for an annual payout of up to 50% of his average earnings each year for 20 years, and the 10-Q shows the company has already accrued a $33.8-million liability for an unspecified number of participants in the plan.

That said, Shacknai couldn’t claim the full pension immediately: He and the others earn a sixth of it each year through 2016 — or all at once if the company is acquired.


This is a very, very interesting article. It talks about how JS was permitted to be "in the office" 2 1/2 days a week to be able to meet with staff and others. The other time he was "providing day care services" for his kids and other projects (I'm thinking his non-profit interests). It's a good read. I wonder if all this came about after and/or during his divorce from DS. Did they have shared parenting?

It is a very unusual and generous employment/business contract for a person (even a co. president) that gets to work a "flex schedule" and who comes across as a real "go getter". I saw him as the first one in and last to leave and controlling.........

I somehow didn't picture him as an executive saying, 'hey, I am not going to be in the office everyday because my children come first' puts a whole new spin on JS. I'm sure he worked a lot even while he was at home (he did say he called all his associates/customers on their birthdays)....did RN quit her job in December to help with child care?

If Medicis is taken over, sounds like JS is going to get a pretty hefty "golden parachute".......which is the norm in today.

Quester
08-12-2011, 09:48 AM
8/12 Medicis CEO Shacknai’s Contract Put Kids Ahead of Company

[JS' employment agreement] requires that he work only four days per week, that he be allowed to work from home, that charity functions be considered part of his work, and that he “may not be available for corporate matters during such times that he is providing care for his children.”
...
The childcare clause dates back to 1999. It’s not clear why Shacknai wanted such flexible hours. He is the founder of the company, and as such dictates his terms to a large extent.
...
The police investigation is expected to take several more weeks — a time period in which Valeant clearly sees a weakened company with a distracted leader, ripe for the picking.
...

http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/medicis-ceo-shacknais-contract-put-kids-ahead-of-company/9462?tag=fd-river5

jjenny
08-12-2011, 09:55 AM
I'd say that's unusual. Especially for a man who could clearly afford to pay a babysitter if needed. We were also told RN quit her job to help care for the children? Did he object to babysitters for whatever reasons?

oceanblueeyes
08-12-2011, 10:02 AM
It sounds like Jonah really wanted to be an active part in his children's lives.

While usual maybe for a CEO..........I find it quite refreshing.

IMO

Quester
08-12-2011, 10:08 AM
I guess I am out of the loop, not having much time lately to follow, but where can I find transcripts of the 911 call? Last I heard they weren't releasing it, but it sounds like you know the content of the call.

Short answer - 911 transcript is still sealed.

I think it was pferrin who listened to the police radio archives and reported the interesting and informative findings. Look under pferrin's profile to find the post.

[Someone please correct me if this info is incorrect. Thx.]

Quester
08-12-2011, 10:30 AM
The new info about JS' employment agreement does put a new spin on JS' character and his priorities.

However, with today's technology, an executive is never out of reach. Sounds like he just has a clause that allows him not to answer a call or respond immediately or attend a meeting if he so chooses (with the agreed excuse that he is tending to his children).

jjenny
08-12-2011, 10:38 AM
The new info about JS' employment agreement does put a new spin on JS' character and his priorities.

However, with today's technology, an executive is never out of reach. Sounds like he just has a clause that allows him not to answer a call or respond immediately or attend a meeting if he so chooses (with the agreed excuse that he is tending to his children).

For a man to claim he has to care of kids so he might not be able to attend work related functions? A man who clearly could afford child care if needed for such an occasion? I find that very unusual and certainly suggests he was extremely devoted to his children, more so than I'd say a lot of men.

Quester
08-12-2011, 10:52 AM
8/12 Medicis CEO Shacknai’s Contract Put Kids Ahead of Company

...
The childcare clause dates back to 1999. It’s not clear why Shacknai wanted such flexible hours. He is the founder of the company, and as such dictates his terms to a large extent.
...

http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/medicis-ceo-shacknais-contract-put-kids-ahead-of-company/9462?tag=fd-river5

BBM - I believe JS was officially divorced from wife #1 sometime in 1999. I wonder if this employment arrangement originally stemmed from an effort to share legal custody of children from wife #1?

And, then it later came in handy when legally negotiating with wife #2 (DS) for possible joint custody of MS?

Matty29
08-12-2011, 10:55 AM
It sounds like Jonah really wanted to be an active part in his children's lives.

While usual maybe for a CEO..........I find it quite refreshing.

IMO

Wow, that is interesting. I am a child of a CEO, and I saw my Dad for dinner just 3 days a year (and my parents were married until I was 24); Easter, Christmas, Thanksgiving. Never saw him on my birthday in my life, and he doesn't remember any of our birthday's to this day. He was traveling for work and/or at the office up to 80 hours a week. I cannot remember a week where he was home 7 days in a row and I cannot remember (because it didn't happen) him ever picking us up from school, helping with homework, watching us at our sporting events, or having dinner with us unless it was one of those 3 days a year. He has been retired a few years and still doesn't remember his children's birthday's or his grandchildren's birthdays. My Dad is the tried and true CEO 'type,' there is no way JS is the same type. Even though JS was an older father compared to mine, my Dad would never take care of us 2 1/2 days a week, he has never even made us a sandwich, taken us to a doctor or gotten us a glass of water in the middle of the night.

I might have to change my perspective on JS because of this revelation about his work schedule and dedication to his children.

A real controlling type A man isn't taking care of kids and working from home 2 1/2 days a week, or going to the gym at 10 in the morning on weekdays, even in this day and age of home offices/phone/fax/blackberries.

scorekeeper
08-12-2011, 11:02 AM
The new info about JS' employment agreement does put a new spin on JS' character and his priorities.

However, with today's technology, an executive is never out of reach. Sounds like he just has a clause that allows him not to answer a call or respond immediately or attend a meeting if he so chooses (with the agreed excuse that he is tending to his children).

Also probably decreases the amount of $$$$ paid out for child support and other expenses.

I'm having a hard time seeing him in this light; after reading articles about him and his company. Got to remember he is also an attorney and he also appears to really guard his expenses (no nanny, housekeeper, gardener, security cameras and any other necessary household help mentioned in any of the articles....) I just don't see him giving up things with out an advantage/motive for himself..

x_files
08-12-2011, 11:14 AM
Wow, that is interesting. I am a child of a CEO, and I saw my Dad for dinner just 3 days a year (and my parents were married until I was 24); Easter, Christmas, Thanksgiving. Never saw him on my birthday in my life, and he doesn't remember any of our birthday's to this day. He was traveling for work and/or at the office up to 80 hours a week. I cannot remember a week where he was home 7 days in a row and I cannot remember (because it didn't happen) him ever picking us up from school, helping with homework, watching us at our sporting events, or having dinner with us unless it was one of those 3 days a year. He has been retired a few years and still doesn't remember his children's birthday's or his grandchildren's birthdays. My Dad is the tried and true CEO 'type,' there is no way JS is the same type. Even though JS was an older father compared to mine, my Dad would never take care of us 2 1/2 days a week, he has never even made us a sandwich, taken us to a doctor or gotten us a glass of water in the middle of the night.

I might have to change my perspective on JS because of this revelation about his work schedule and dedication to his children.

A real controlling type A man isn't taking care of kids and working from home 2 1/2 days a week, or going to the gym at 10 in the morning on weekdays, even in this day and age of home offices/phone/fax/blackberries.

How do we know he was spending time with his children? Not out golfing or traveling? Is there witnesses to hi actually spending that time with his kids? Just curious?
It maybe another excuse to remain control over his own life and hiding it under the guise of an excellent dad. Another possible mask or image he wanted to project.

Quester
08-12-2011, 11:15 AM
Also probably decreases the amount of $$$$ paid out for child support and other expenses.

I'm having a hard time seeing him in this light; after reading articles about him and his company. Got to remember he is also an attorney and he also appears to really guard his expenses (no nanny, housekeeper, gardener, security cameras and any other necessary household help mentioned in any of the articles....) I just don't see him giving up things with out an advantage/motive for himself..

BBM - I agree score! The more I think about this employment agreement the more I think it was a strategic chess move (child custody as I posted above).

I think we're seeing a little more light cast on that bizarre statement that DS made:

'I feel scared of what he is capable of doing to me physically via the dog as well as the lengths he would try to go to "destroy" me in any way he was able to do so.'

7/20 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2016550/Rebecca-Nalepas-lover-Jonah-Shacknai-violent-marriage-ex-wife-Dina.html

Matty29
08-12-2011, 11:17 AM
Also probably decreases the amount of $$$$ paid out for child support and other expenses.

I'm having a hard time seeing him in this light; after reading articles about him and his company. Got to remember he is also an attorney and he also appears to really guard his expenses (no nanny, housekeeper, gardener, security cameras and any other necessary household help mentioned in any of the articles....) I just don't see him giving up things with out an advantage/motive for himself..

I agree but CEO's don't like kids not even their own kids (as in like to take care of them). This work contract is bizarre to say the least. My Dad would have paid my Mom plenty to get rid of us, lol, but we were grown when they divorced. NO WAY he was taking care of us to pay her less in child support, NO WAY.

Unless, JS wanted to f*ck over the ex-wives by taking 50% custody of the kids to punish the Mothers as they would see them less (thus crushing them bc as Mom's we want to be there with our kids everyday) and this 'work contract' is just hogwash to make it seem like he was taking care of these kids himself while he had his 50% of custody.

Matty29
08-12-2011, 11:18 AM
How do we know he was spending time with his children? Not out golfing or traveling? Is there witnesses to hi actually spending that time with his kids? Just curious?
It maybe another excuse to remain control over his own life and hiding it under the guise of an excellent dad. Another possible mask or image he wanted to project.

Yup, narcissists like to 'look' like the good guy. The winner. I won custody of my kids.

time
08-12-2011, 11:40 AM
8/12 Medicis CEO Shacknai’s Contract Put Kids Ahead of Company

[JS' employment agreement] requires that he work only four days per week, that he be allowed to work from home, that charity functions be considered part of his work, and that he “may not be available for corporate matters during such times that he is providing care for his children.”
...
The childcare clause dates back to 1999. It’s not clear why Shacknai wanted such flexible hours. He is the founder of the company, and as such dictates his terms to a large extent.
...
The police investigation is expected to take several more weeks — a time period in which Valeant clearly sees a weakened company with a distracted leader, ripe for the picking.
...

http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/medicis-ceo-shacknais-contract-put-kids-ahead-of-company/9462?tag=fd-river5


Childcare clauses could be for show. Was it around 1999 that he and first wife started talking divorce?

Of course, it could be for other reasons or just so absences wouldn't be questioned, but CEO's probably work 18 hours a day whether at home or office? Just because someone claims they call every client doesn't mean it's true.

SDT
08-12-2011, 11:44 AM
Quester, Matty29 and X-files,

I was just about to post the EXACT same ideas. I think Jonah is a control freak and it was a strategic move for divorce proceedings and etc. Why would RN quit her job to be with the children if in fact he liked to spend time with them? Why would he make it such a public decree in his employment? If you are the CEO of a company, you don't have to tell anyone when you will be in the office or have to report so many days.

fran
08-12-2011, 11:52 AM
Friendly Reminder

Websleuths is a 'victim friendly' forum.

Both of the incidents being discussed in this thread have NOT been ruled as a crime.

As of this date, incident #1, the child, has been referred to by LE as 'accidental.'

The second incident is as of now, 'undetermined.'

The family of the victims of both incidents are also vicitms. Please remember that and post accordingly.

There are NO suspects.

All vicitms should be judged by what is in the MSM and NOT unsubstantiated speculation, and, or, rumors. There's been nothing to indicate that all victims are not what they appear to be, and their motives for doing such as well.

Please review your posts and be sure that you are posting within the guidelines. If you feel you need to edit your post, please do so. I don't want to have to remove any posts.

IF you have any questions, you may contact me or any of the other Websleuth moderators or administration.

Thank you for your cooperation.
fran

jstwondering
08-12-2011, 12:00 PM
8/12 Medicis CEO Shacknai’s Contract Put Kids Ahead of Company
The police investigation is expected to take several more weeks — a time period in which Valeant clearly sees a weakened company with a distracted leader, ripe for the picking.
...


Snipped by me
I must say that your post is fascinating. Thanks.
If you are a conspiracy theorist like me, this makes me stop and think. There are few big bad corporations more suspicious than Big Pharma. If I was writing a whodunit, this would make a great plot twist. IMHO. Sadly, though, this tragedy happened to real people. I mean no disrespect to those involved.

oceanblueeyes
08-12-2011, 12:15 PM
I will give Jonah a benefit of a doubt that he really did love his children immensely and knew how important it is to spend time with them.

Not one person has come out and said that Jonah wasnt a devoted loving father.

I dont find it controlling at all when a father wants to be with their children and help raise them. I find that an honorable trait.

IMO

jstwondering
08-12-2011, 12:23 PM
How do we know he was spending time with his children? Not out golfing or traveling? Is there witnesses to hi actually spending that time with his kids? Just curious?
It maybe another excuse to remain control over his own life and hiding it under the guise of an excellent dad. Another possible mask or image he wanted to project.

Sorry to LOL, but this brought back memories. When I had my two babies, their father took off a week from work to "take care of me". He went on 12 mile runs, went to the tanning booth, went out to dinner to help me out (so I wouldn't have to cook!) I didn't even see him. What a scam...and his co-workers thought he was such a caring husband and father!

time
08-12-2011, 12:32 PM
I don't think putting a phrase in a contract is indicative of loving your children or not loving them, or being devoted or not ... the point is that it doesn't seem necessary and the timing is probably not coincidental. Attorneys tend to put stuff in writing that they want recorded and want other people to see or for legal benefit.

Quester
08-12-2011, 12:36 PM
Snipped by me
I must say that your post is fascinating. Thanks.
If you are a conspiracy theorist like me, this makes me stop and think. There are few big bad corporations more suspicious than Big Pharma. If I was writing a whodunit, this would make a great plot twist. IMHO. Sadly, though, this tragedy happened to real people. I mean no disrespect to those involved.

Interesting thoughts jstwondering!

I am not a conspiracy theorist or at least I've read nothing at this point to lead me in that direction. And, I hate to think that what you are insinuating could be true. But, I could be naive or have blinders on on this subject as well. At any rate, I do see how one could make the leap you are making.

I agree with you that these cases would make an incredible whodunit story with fascinating plot twists and all the elements of intrigue. I think that is why it is so compelling and mesmerizing to follow.

Hope we'll hear the true "rest of the story" soon and have a resolution to these tragic deaths.

Quester
08-12-2011, 12:42 PM
I will give Jonah a benefit of a doubt that he really did love his children immensely and knew how important it is to spend time with them.

Not one person has come out and said that Jonah wasnt a devoted loving father.

I dont find it controlling at all when a father wants to be with their children and help raise them. I find that an honorable trait.

IMO

Very good and proper balancing points, ocean! Thx.

And, I agree with what you stated.

Paladine
08-12-2011, 01:30 PM
I agree but CEO's don't like kids not even their own kids (as in like to take care of them). This work contract is bizarre to say the least. My Dad would have paid my Mom plenty to get rid of us, lol, but we were grown when they divorced. NO WAY he was taking care of us to pay her less in child support, NO WAY.

Unless, JS wanted to f*ck over the ex-wives by taking 50% custody of the kids to punish the Mothers as they would see them less (thus crushing them bc as Mom's we want to be there with our kids everyday) and this 'work contract' is just hogwash to make it seem like he was taking care of these kids himself while he had his 50% of custody.

My ex was a successful, wealthy, controlling, businessman. He had a nasty divorce and custody battle over his 2 kids, years before I came into the picture, and unbeknownst to me till I was knee deep...

He wanted sole custody because, he told me, he wasn't going to give her one penny, if he could help it, even though he could easily afford it. He loved money and control and hated her. He got full custody after driving her into the ground, but he left those kids on their own or with a girlfriend to raise...it was all about control and money, for him, imo. He won...that's what mattered, too, imo.

ETA: AND he was a hockey coach, big in the community, seen as a wonderful Dad...I know different...I was there, on the inside.

SO...I'm not buying the devoted Dad deal, yet...although, I feel that's really not for me to judge...devoted Dads kill too, imo...

branwynbreeze
08-12-2011, 01:32 PM
Thinking about this case last night I went back to why is LE seemingly keeping the two deaths tied together with their silence. I wonder why a statement hasn't been made regarding MS accident. It's been a month, you'd think they know what happened. Why won't they just come out and talk about MS, a few details to set us right on incident? They can always say that RN investigation is ongoing, no comment.

4Jacy
08-12-2011, 01:43 PM
Just wondering if the two boys who were roof sitting when Rebecca's body was on the ground heard any music or disturbance coming from the mansion the night before. txs

oceanblueeyes
08-12-2011, 01:47 PM
Thinking about this case last night I went back to why is LE seemingly keeping the two deaths tied together with their silence. I wonder why a statement hasn't been made regarding MS accident. It's been a month, you'd think they know what happened. Why won't they just come out and talk about MS, a few details to set us right on incident? They can always say that RN investigation is ongoing, no comment.

If they believe that Maxie's death was accidental they will not divulge any aspects concerning his death except maybe saying he suffered major injuries from a fall in his home.

And I do believe they do think his death was totally accidental. They will feel no need to elaborate further and will respect the family's privacy and Maxie's too.

IMO

Quester
08-12-2011, 01:59 PM
Legal question:

IF this is murder case and IF DS (or JS for that matter) is thought responsible and IF murder charges are brought against her:

Can she plea "guilty" by reason of temporary insanity or would the case have to go to jury trial in hopes of establishing "not guilty" by reason of temporary insanity?

If she can plea "guilty" by reason of temp insanity, what would be the punishment? (Full battery of mental health evaluations and when deemed "sane" she would walk free?) OR (Would the punishment be negotiated with the DA? Mandatory ongoing mental heath support, probation, etc ???)

TIA

x_files
08-12-2011, 02:11 PM
Quester, Matty29 and X-files,

I was just about to post the EXACT same ideas. I think Jonah is a control freak and it was a strategic move for divorce proceedings and etc. Why would RN quit her job to be with the children if in fact he liked to spend time with them? Why would he make it such a public decree in his employment? If you are the CEO of a company, you don't have to tell anyone when you will be in the office or have to report so many days.

We are on the same page. IF JS is a psychopath or just extremely controlling and if he is somehow affiliated with the suspicious death.
Just putting together a profile based on patterns of relationships and court papers.
I do realize that this could have made him many enemies that could have broke in to kill R for revenge, or even driven her to suicide.
Obviously, right now he is considered a victim until the LE name him a POI or suspect. It's hard to move forward with this case if there's no POI/suspect at this time. i'll just wait.
But, it's just MOO.
I would truly feel horrible if I condemned him on this board and he is a victim.

Matty29
08-12-2011, 02:18 PM
My ex was a successful, wealthy, controlling, businessman. He had a nasty divorce and custody battle over his 2 kids, years before I came into the picture, and unbeknownst to me till I was knee deep...

He wanted sole custody because, he told me, he wasn't going to give her one penny, if he could help it, even though he could easily afford it. He loved money and control and hated her. He got full custody after driving her into the ground, but he left those kids on their own or with a girlfriend to raise...it was all about control and money, for him, imo. He won...that's what mattered, too, imo.

ETA: AND he was a hockey coach, big in the community, seen as a wonderful Dad...I know different...I was there, on the inside.

SO...I'm not buying the devoted Dad deal, yet...although, I feel that's really not for me to judge...devoted Dads kill too, imo...

Hmm, that is interesting because it seemed odd to me after 25 years and 4 kids my mom would want to divorce when we were all grown up, and not when we were little and he was never around and she put up with all his controlling behavior for so long ... she knew him better than we did, and she might have been sparing us from that sort of a situation if he threatened her with 'I will get the kids sort of thing' (which my mom and I have not discussed) but with his personality is very possible. Maybe my Mom wasn't a dummy to have stayed so long (which is what I used to call her whenever he would come home/he was a tyrant and we could not make a SOUND when he was home, not so fun for 4 rambunctious kids).

Paladine
08-12-2011, 02:31 PM
Hmm, that is interesting because it seemed odd to me after 25 years and 4 kids my mom would want to divorce when we were all grown up, and not when we were little and he was never around and she put up with all his controlling behavior for so long ... she knew him better than we did, and she might have been sparing us from that sort of a situation if he threatened her with 'I will get the kids sort of thing' (which my mom and I have not discussed) but with his personality is very possible. Maybe my Mom wasn't a dummy to have stayed so long (which is what I used to call her whenever he would come home/he was a tyrant and we could not make a SOUND when he was home, not so fun for 4 rambunctious kids).

And maybe it was easier when he wasn't around...? It was for me. Maybe she stayed to provide a lifestyle she felt she couldn't provide you all on her own? That's why I stayed: to keep the kids in the good schools, safer, 'nicer' neighbourhood, and so I'd be able to afford to provide the lifestyle they had been accustomed to...it was easier when he was out alot...it got alot harder when he was home more often...ime.

We have had but a glimpse inside this family...who knows whats really there...

MizStery
08-12-2011, 02:39 PM
My ex was a successful, wealthy, controlling, businessman. He had a nasty divorce and custody battle over his 2 kids, years before I came into the picture, and unbeknownst to me till I was knee deep...

He wanted sole custody because, he told me, he wasn't going to give her one penny, if he could help it, even though he could easily afford it. He loved money and control and hated her. He got full custody after driving her into the ground, but he left those kids on their own or with a girlfriend to raise...it was all about control and money, for him, imo. He won...that's what mattered, too, imo.

ETA: AND he was a hockey coach, big in the community, seen as a wonderful Dad...I know different...I was there, on the inside.

SO...I'm not buying the devoted Dad deal, yet...although, I feel that's really not for me to judge...devoted Dads kill too, imo...

I believe you hit the nail on the proverbial head. Many men gripe about child support because they view it as giving money to a woman they detest. While at Target a few years ago...I listened to a father tell his seven year old son he
was not paying for a Holloween costume ever again. He said let your mother pay for it. The kid just looked ill. I had to bite my tongue.

OK,this is my theory. If LE has a person of interest then they do not want to tip their hand. As soon as a name is given the PR machine and expensive lawyers blitz the media. As long as it is kept in limbo it buys them time to gather evidence. MOO

oceanblueeyes
08-12-2011, 02:45 PM
I believe you hit the nail on the proverbial head. Many men gripe about child support because they view it as giving money to a woman they detest. While at Target a few years ago...I listened to a father tell his seven year old son he
was not paying for a Holloween costume ever again. He said let your mother pay for it. The kid just looked ill. I had to bite my tongue.

OK,this is my theory. If LE has a person of interest then they do not want to tip their hand. As soon as a name is given the PR machine and expensive lawyers blitz the media. As long as it is kept in limbo it buys them time to gather evidence. MOO

I just think that is painting all fathers with a wide brush. Many pay their child support on time and without questions and go way beyond and will personally buy the children anything they need that the child support didn't cover. Some women complain about having to pay child support to the fathers too but not all women do.

I still say there is nothing showing that Jonah is anything other than a loving father.

IMO

Paladine
08-12-2011, 02:58 PM
I believe you hit the nail on the proverbial head. Many men gripe about child support because they view it as giving money to a woman they detest. While at Target a few years ago...I listened to a father tell his seven year old son he
was not paying for a Holloween costume ever again. He said let your mother pay for it. The kid just looked ill. I had to bite my tongue.

OK,this is my theory. If LE has a person of interest then they do not want to tip their hand. As soon as a name is given the PR machine and expensive lawyers blitz the media. As long as it is kept in limbo it buys them time to gather evidence. MOO

I hate when children are put in those positions...it's soul wounding, imo.

Check out a divorce forum, sometime. I did. Right before I left. Man, the venom...I never posted...reading was quite enlightening, though.

There are women and men who have this vindictiveness, I agree, oceanblueeyes...man, it's ugly, though...

As for Jonah and his parenting...? I've seen nothing that leads me strongly in any direction...I'm pretty neutral, there.

Quester
08-12-2011, 02:59 PM
I just think that is painting all fathers with a wide brush. Many pay their child support on time and without questions and go way beyond and will personally buy the children anything they need that the child support didn't cover. Some women complain about having to pay child support to the fathers too but not all women do.

I still say there is nothing showing that Jonah is anything other than a loving father.

IMO

BBM - Loving father - yes, probably! BUT, we are starting to see a possible pattern of manipulation by JS against ex-wives.

Example: wife #1 claimed JS hid funds which probably resulted in a lower settlement/alimony/child support payments. Now we have this peculiar employment agreement that coincides with the time-frame of the termination of his first marriage. Similar tactics may have been used against DS. ???

time
08-12-2011, 03:18 PM
BBM - Loving father - yes, probably! BUT, we are starting to see a possible pattern of manipulation by JS against ex-wifes.

Example: wife #1 claimed JS hid funds which probably resulted in a lower settlement/alimony/child support payments. Now we have this peculiar employment agreement that coincidences with the time-frame of the termination of his first marriage. Similar tactics may have been used against DS. ???


Thanks for the recap... I was trying to remember the first divorce stuff.

Paladine
08-12-2011, 03:35 PM
found this comment on a comment section:

Rady Children's Hospital Security Memo:

We lock most Hospital doors each night at 8:00pm. The only access into the Hospital after 8:00pm is through the Sam S and Rose Stein Emergency Care Center (at the entrance of the Rose Pavilion).

We give parents or legal guardians wrist bands for identification purposes.Please wear your wrist band at all times.It lets our staff know that you can be in the Hospital after 8:00pm. Security Staff are on - duty 24 hours a day.

Can the police "visually" confirm Jonah was at Rady Hospital in the early am hours of that Wed. of July 13th.......if not, where was he and why did he say he was at the hospital nthe entire time? Also, what clothes does it show Jonah wearing Tuesday inside the Hospital and what clothes was he wearing early Wed. morning?

of this article:

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/shacknai-participates-in-companys-earnings-call-2

Here is a map of the hospital...might be a repost...sorry, if so.

http://www.rchsd.org/cmsprodcons1/groups/public/@groups-creativesvcscomm/documents/content/c013260.pdf

Can't find the security memo online, yet, so take it for what it is, for now...and I gotta run but I thought I'd share....

defense101
08-12-2011, 03:39 PM
Legal question:

IF this is murder case and IF DS (or JS for that matter) is thought responsible and IF murder charges are brought against her:

Can she plea "guilty" by reason of temporary insanity or would the case have to go to jury trial in hopes of establishing "not guilty" by reason of temporary insanity?

If she can plea "guilty" by reason of temp insanity, what would be the punishment? (Full battery of mental health evaluations and when deemed "sane" she would walk free?) OR (Would the punishment be negotiated with the DA? Mandatory ongoing mental heath support, probation, etc ???)

TIAI think it would be hard to make a temp insanity plea when it takes you twenty minutes to drive to the home from the hospital, how long is temp insanity? That's too long imo to say you snapped.

Quester
08-12-2011, 03:44 PM
I think it would be hard to make a temp insanity plea when it takes you twenty minutes to drive to the home from the hospital, how long is temp insanity? That's too long imo to say you snapped.

:floorlaugh: Maybe it was a snapped, crackled and popped! :floorlaugh:


ETA: It could be temp insanity if my earlier suggestion of possible theory is true. Namely, DS goes to mansion to retrieve something dear to MS (eg stuffed animal) and finds RN in MS' bed and snapped.

Paladine
08-12-2011, 03:51 PM
reading over comments on that last link I posted...there is alot there to sleuth, imo...just an fyi. NOW...I gotta run.

ETA: like this one:

TA

12:19am on Friday, August 12, 2011


Also, not just Rebecca who had run-in with law. JS had what look like a couple minor traffic violations in AZ...as well as something that was removed/resolved JULY 27, 2011....
http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/publicaccess/

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/shacknai-participates-in-companys-earnings-call-2

defense101
08-12-2011, 04:11 PM
reading over comments on that last link I posted...there is alot there to sleuth, imo...just an fyi. NOW...I gotta run.

ETA: like this one:



http://coronado.patch.com/articles/shacknai-participates-in-companys-earnings-call-2 It seems like it was a traffic ticket that was done by photo radar.

branwynbreeze
08-12-2011, 06:59 PM
If they believe that Maxie's death was accidental they will not divulge any aspects concerning his death except maybe saying he suffered major injuries from a fall in his home.

And I do believe they do think his death was totally accidental. They will feel no need to elaborate further and will respect the family's privacy and Maxie's too.

IMO

I see that, but just a statement saying it's not connected would be nice. Anything at this stage.

defense101
08-12-2011, 07:28 PM
I see that, but just a statement saying it's not connected would be nice. Anything at this stage.I think that would be tipping their hat so to speak, to say it was connected imo would say that RN was murdered by one the few "witnesses". To say its not imo would say that it was suicide.

oceanblueeyes
08-12-2011, 08:00 PM
BBM - Loving father - yes, probably! BUT, we are starting to see a possible pattern of manipulation by JS against ex-wives.

Example: wife #1 claimed JS hid funds which probably resulted in a lower settlement/alimony/child support payments. Now we have this peculiar employment agreement that coincides with the time-frame of the termination of his first marriage. Similar tactics may have been used against DS. ???

Do you think it is peculiar because it is a father instead of a mother who is wanting to spend a lot of time with his children? I know a lot of fathers Quester that would love the opportunity to have a position like Jonah has so they could spend more valuable time with their children. Maybe more CEOs do this and we just don't hear about it.

But what does that have to do with who harmed Rebecca if she was harmed?

He wasnt married to her. As far as I know he supported her since she had quit her job and moved in with him.

Maybe I am not understanding what I am supposed to understand.:floorlaugh:

I am so doggone tired from packing for our anniversary week getaway that my brain may not be working on all 8 cylinders.:crazy:

IMO

Quester
08-12-2011, 08:21 PM
Don't know if what is at the following link is real or fake. Looks like it could be real to me but, if so, I'm not sure it can be discussed here. Can someone look and give feedback. Thx.

http://www.wittyprofiles.com/q/3262032/2

MizStery
08-12-2011, 08:35 PM
Maybe I am not understanding what I am supposed to understand.:floorlaugh:

I am so doggone tired from packing for our anniversary week getaway that my brain may not be working on all 8 cylinders.:crazy:

IMO



:congrats:
Happy anniversary Ocean have a wonderful trip :fireworks:
:party:

Quester
08-12-2011, 08:47 PM
Do you think it is peculiar because it is a father instead of a mother who is wanting to spend a lot of time with his children? I know a lot of fathers Quester that would love the opportunity to have a position like Jonah has so they could spend more valuable time with their children. Maybe more CEOs do this and we just don't hear about it.

But what does that have to do with who harmed Rebecca if she was harmed?

He wasnt married to her. As far as I know he supported her since she had quit her job and moved in with him.

Maybe I am not understanding what I am supposed to understand.:floorlaugh:

I am so doggone tired from packing for our anniversary week getaway that my brain may not be working on all 8 cylinders.:crazy:

IMO

BBM - No ocean, that's not what I was trying to say - maybe my point was unclearly written.

I thought the employment agreement was peculiar because the reporter said, "It’s not clear why Shacknai wanted such flexible hours. He is the founder of the company, and as such dictates his terms to a large extent." Which led me to believe that this type of employment agreement was highly unusual. Coupled with the fact that it occurred in 1999 when his divorce from wife #1 was official seemed too coincidental - in other words it seemed calculated to manipulate for his benefit when negotiating the child custody. Please note: I could be completely off base.

I do agree with you that this issue may have absolutely nothing to do with RN's demise but it's starting to show a pattern of manipulation of those close to JS that reveals some aspect of his character that may be relevant.

Cheers to you and your husband on your anniversary! :toastred:

Do enjoy your getaway! Hope we have some new info when you return. :seeya:


http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-busine...?tag=fd-river5 (http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/medicis-ceo-shacknais-contract-put-kids-ahead-of-company/9462?tag=fd-river5)

oceanblueeyes
08-12-2011, 08:53 PM
:congrats:
Happy anniversary Ocean have a wonderful trip :fireworks:
:party:

Awww how thoughtful, Miz.

Thank you so much. We always have a wonderful time.

imo

oceanblueeyes
08-12-2011, 09:02 PM
BBM - No ocean, that's not what I was trying to say - maybe my point was unclearly written.

I thought the employment agreement was peculiar because the reporter said, "It’s not clear why Shacknai wanted such flexible hours. He is the founder of the company, and as such dictates his terms to a large extent." Which led me to believe that this type of employment agreement was highly unusual. Coupled with the fact that it occurred in 1999 when his divorce from wife #1 was official seemed too coincidental - in other words it seemed calculated to manipulate for his benefit when negotiating the child custody. Please note: I could be completely off base.

I do agree with you that this issue may have absolutely nothing to do with RN's demise but it's stating to show a pattern of manipulation of those close to JS that reveals some aspect of his character that may be relevant.

Cheers to you and your husband on your anniversary! :toastred:

Do enjoy your getaway! Hope we have some new info when you return. :seeya:


http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-busine...?tag=fd-river5 (http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/medicis-ceo-shacknais-contract-put-kids-ahead-of-company/9462?tag=fd-river5)

OK I understand it more clearly now.

I am not taking my laptop when we go so I will be anxious to see the news when I return.

I know you all will keep up to date here so I can try to catch up when I return.

I am going to miss all of you.

Thanks for the cheers!

IMO

oceanblueeyes
08-12-2011, 09:05 PM
Don't know if what is at the following link is real or fake. Looks like it could be real to me but, if so, I'm not sure it can be discussed here. Can someone look and give feedback. Thx.

http://www.wittyprofiles.com/q/3262032/2

It sounds like Dina has a boyfriend and has moved on with her life.

IMO

scorekeeper
08-12-2011, 09:14 PM
Oceanblueeyes,

Have a nice, peaceful, relaxing and LOVING weekend!! Will miss your post!!

:loveyou::cheer::cake::fireworks2::hug::censored:: toast::toastred:

:Banane41::congrats::cupcake::pillowfight2::blowki ss::great::great:

score

scorekeeper
08-12-2011, 09:19 PM
Don't know if what is at the following link is real or fake. Looks like it could be real to me but, if so, I'm not sure it can be discussed here. Can someone look and give feedback. Thx.

http://www.wittyprofiles.com/q/3262032/2

hmmm. Don't know. This was posted on July 11 at 8:30 pm. Maxie was taken to the hospital that morning.

Does seem like DS could possibly have a boyfriend with a daughter. Could they have been at the Coronado house with DS?

I know nothing about this site, but she hasn't posted anything else has she?

defense101
08-12-2011, 09:20 PM
OK I understand it more clearly now.

I am not taking my laptop when we go so I will be anxious to see the news when I return.

I know you all will keep up to date here so I can try to catch up when I return.

I am going to miss all of you.

Thanks for the cheers!

IMO
:gasp: No laptop! lol mine is surgically attached.

Have a great time!

:cake:

Quester
08-12-2011, 09:28 PM
hmmm. Don't know. This was posted on July 11 at 8:30 pm. Maxie was taken to the hospital that morning.

Does seem like DS could possibly have a boyfriend with a daughter. Could they have been at the Coronado house with DS?

I know nothing about this site, but she hasn't posted anything else has she?

BBM - Yes, if DS' boyfriend, that could also explain the reported phone call to DS' Coronado home with a male answering and stating no comment or something to that effect.

There are additional posts under her profile with one stating that all posts relating to MS were deleted. She must have missed this one.

scorekeeper
08-12-2011, 09:32 PM
:gasp: No laptop! lol mine is surgically attached.

Have a great time!

:cake:

We could send you a PM......if you have a smart phone.......

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::f loorlaugh::floorlaugh:

O/T.....you shouldn't have to pack much......you probably shouldn't ever leave the room.......LOL.....room service........in-house movies...........shaking beds.......LOL........sorry, I couldn't resist!!! :woohoo:

oceanblueeyes
08-12-2011, 09:33 PM
Oceanblueeyes,

Have a nice, peaceful, relaxing and LOVING weekend!! Will miss your post!!

:loveyou::cheer::cake::fireworks2::hug::censored:: toast::toastred:

:Banane41::congrats::cupcake::pillowfight2::blowki ss::great::great:

score

WOW! Now that is sooooooooooo cool, Score! Love it!

Thank you so much. :heartluv:

IMO

oceanblueeyes
08-12-2011, 09:37 PM
We could send you a PM......if you have a smart phone.......

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::f loorlaugh::floorlaugh:

O/T.....you shouldn't have to pack much......you probably shouldn't ever leave the room.......LOL.....room service........in-house movies...........shaking beds.......LOL........sorry, I couldn't resist!!! :woohoo:

Hee-hee.....have you been talking to my hubby?:floorlaugh:

infobabe
08-12-2011, 09:54 PM
Don't know if what is at the following link is real or fake. Looks like it could be real to me but, if so, I'm not sure it can be discussed here. Can someone look and give feedback. Thx.

http://www.wittyprofiles.com/q/3262032/2

Holy Cow, if it is real!

I don't want to copy and paste the entire message, because it might violate forum rules, so everyone should go and look at it themselves.

This is what popped out at me:

"He fell off a balcony at his dads house this morning."

If that is true, and not a tumble down the stairs, then that might explain why RN was hanging from the balcony, whether it was suicide or murder.

x_files
08-12-2011, 10:02 PM
Holy Cow, if it is real!

I don't want to copy and paste the entire message, because it might violate forum rules, so everyone should go and look at it themselves.

This is what popped out at me:

"He fell off a balcony at his dads house this morning."

If that is true, and not a tumble down the stairs, then that might explain why RN was hanging from the balcony, whether it was suicide or murder.

Excellent point!!!

scorekeeper
08-12-2011, 10:09 PM
Why would she delete all post about MS except the one on that Monday?

She said in her comments that he pasted away on Saturday.

arielilane
08-12-2011, 10:10 PM
My ex was a successful, wealthy, controlling, businessman. He had a nasty divorce and custody battle over his 2 kids, years before I came into the picture, and unbeknownst to me till I was knee deep...

He wanted sole custody because, he told me, he wasn't going to give her one penny, if he could help it, even though he could easily afford it. He loved money and control and hated her. He got full custody after driving her into the ground, but he left those kids on their own or with a girlfriend to raise...it was all about control and money, for him, imo. He won...that's what mattered, too, imo.

ETA: AND he was a hockey coach, big in the community, seen as a wonderful Dad...I know different...I was there, on the inside.

SO...I'm not buying the devoted Dad deal, yet...although, I feel that's really not for me to judge...devoted Dads kill too, imo...
Paladine, I know exactly what you mean. I agree. Unfortunately, this is too common among families of divorce. No one really knows what goes on behind closed doors.

arielilane
08-12-2011, 10:15 PM
:floorlaugh: Maybe it was a snapped, crackled and popped! :floorlaugh:


ETA: It could be temp insanity if my earlier suggestion of possible theory is true. Namely, DS goes to mansion to retrieve something dear to MS (eg stuffed animal) and finds RN in MS' bed and snapped. Quester, have you ever thought about being a defense counsel? ; )

arielilane
08-12-2011, 10:23 PM
Don't know if what is at the following link is real or fake. Looks like it could be real to me but, if so, I'm not sure it can be discussed here. Can someone look and give feedback. Thx.

http://www.wittyprofiles.com/q/3262032/2
Is Max's given name Maxfield?

Quester
08-12-2011, 10:25 PM
Quester, have you ever thought about being a defense counsel? ; )

:noooo: Simple answer - no. In fact - no way, not a chance! :giggle:

ETA: Are my theories starting to sound Jose Baez-ish? Is that what you're trying to tell me? :giggle:

arielilane
08-12-2011, 10:27 PM
It is strange that she stated "He fell off a balcony at his dads house this morning".

arielilane
08-12-2011, 10:41 PM
Shacknai speaks; mystery answers could come next week

CORONADO, Calif. -- Conclusion to a nearly month-long death mystery at the Spreckels Mansion on Coronado could come by the end of next week.
The San Diego Sheriff’s Department said Tuesday it expects to release information on the death of 32-year-old Rebecca Zahau as soon as it gets toxicology results, which could be by next Friday.

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-shacknai-speaks-mystery-answers-could-come-next-week-20110809,0,3128257.story

I'm sure this is a duplicate post from thread #5. Worth posting again.

One more week or less!

arielilane
08-12-2011, 10:45 PM
:noooo: Simple answer - no. In fact - no way, not a chance! :giggle:

ETA: Are my theories starting to sound Jose Baez-ish? Is that what you're trying to tell me? :giggle:
You were doing what any good defense attorney is suppose to do. http://www.wuerziworld.de/Smilies/girl/gi5.gif

October
08-12-2011, 11:00 PM
It is strange that she stated "He fell off a balcony at his dads house this morning".

If this is true, it would be DS's boyfriends daughter, not GS. She says that he is like her little brother, not that he is.

arielilane
08-12-2011, 11:05 PM
If this is true, it would be DS's boyfriends daughter, not GS. She says that he is like her little brother, not that he is.
I don't think DS would want her boyfriend's child with RZ.

jjenny
08-12-2011, 11:09 PM
I don't think DS would want her boyfriend's child with RZ.

But there is nothing to suggest that girl ever was with RZ.

arielilane
08-12-2011, 11:24 PM
I understand the post as the writer being ds's boyfriend's daughter who thought of Max as a brother.

Wendy101
08-12-2011, 11:30 PM
I noticed there is a ring on Rebecca's finger.... photos 13 & 16 ....

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/photo_gallery/kswb-photos-nude-woman-found-dead-at-mansion-20110715,0,6503880.photogallery

Charlie09
08-12-2011, 11:33 PM
I will give Jonah a benefit of a doubt that he really did love his children immensely and knew how important it is to spend time with them.

Not one person has come out and said that Jonah wasnt a devoted loving father.

I dont find it controlling at all when a father wants to be with their children and help raise them. I find that an honorable trait.

IMO

In all fairness has anyone said anything about him at all?
As far as I know, it's just what is in court documents right?

Carrington
08-12-2011, 11:39 PM
Death certificates obtained by News 8 confirm Shacknai's son, Maxfield Aaron Shacknai, died at Rady Children's Hospital at 11:30 a.m. on July 16, five days after his fall near the stairs. The records reveal the boy was buried last week at Mt. Sinai

Cehttp://www.cbs8.com/story/15145788/sister?clienttype=printablemetery

deanna82437
08-13-2011, 12:42 AM
reading over comments on that last link I posted...there is alot there to sleuth, imo...just an fyi. NOW...I gotta run.

ETA: like this one:



http://coronado.patch.com/articles/shacknai-participates-in-companys-earnings-call-2

Those comments are very interesting ..

Inobu
08-13-2011, 01:11 AM
There are factors that many posters have touch on what will set the tone for the prosecution. If LE finds actions that suggest a premeditated acts then you will see a 1st Degree count. If the actions prove to be incidental then a manslaughter count may be pressed. It all depends on what the evidence and actions points too. Which may include why some guests left the house before Tuesday night and why some remained.

Recalling the direct verbiage used by LE. They stated that she had bindings on her and used the word suspended not hanged. The types of bindings becomes significant in that it dictates a premeditate action verses a reactive action.

Asking someone or going yourself to home depot to buy duct tape, rope and plastic then cranking up an stereo or what ever and going insane most likely won't cut it. Picking up items that are lying around in the room may be more so acceptable.

I think the orange extension cord or tie down is just part of the prior event and had nothing to do with the appeared staged hanging.

According to LE JS is out of it. I think they confirmed that after the request for the hospital tapes were made he had a alibi.

The only way that MS death will be connected to RN death is if they (LE) gets a confession other than that the two deaths are not related. If they are not related then no temporary insanity plea can be made. If a temporary insanity plea is made then the deaths are related but LE will need a confession. Only the perpetrator can link the 2 deaths together anything else is only an assumption on our part.

The bottom line to this case is how well the investigation and forensic team did their job.

Inobu

Dr. Know?
08-13-2011, 01:11 AM
The ring zoomed in 400 plus looks silver by eye but could be platinum or white gold of course. No diamonds that I saw in the photos. Anyone else? Sorry if I'm behind. Trying to catch up. I don't mean anything other than no diamonds. Nada else. xoxo

RIP Maxfield Aaron Shacknai & RIP Rebecca Nalepa. Such a sad happening for all the family & friends. xoxo

cleo612
08-13-2011, 01:16 AM
Holy Cow, if it is real!

I don't want to copy and paste the entire message, because it might violate forum rules, so everyone should go and look at it themselves.

This is what popped out at me:

"He fell off a balcony at his dads house this morning."

If that is true, and not a tumble down the stairs, then that might explain why RN was hanging from the balcony, whether it was suicide or murder.

She could be referring to the balcony overlooking the stairwell inside the house.

I found the terminology "my dad's girlfriend's son" to be a bit strange, since it was Jonah's son, and not Rebecca's son, that had the accident.

defense101
08-13-2011, 01:22 AM
She could be referring to the balcony overlooking the stairwell inside the house.

I found the terminology "my dad's girlfriend's son" to be a bit strange, since it was Jonah's son, and not Rebecca's son, that had the accident. Yes, I agree it could be the balcony overlooking the stairwell plus, it would be DS boyfriend's daughter, possibly the man that the press spoke to at DS's house.

Rhyme & Reason
08-13-2011, 01:22 AM
She could be referring to the balcony overlooking the stairwell inside the house.

I found the terminology "my dad's girlfriend's son" to be a bit strange, since it was Jonah's son, and not Rebecca's son, that had the accident.

above bbm - I was really confused too until a poster here pointed out that would be DS boyfriends daughter, not JS daughter.

cleo612
08-13-2011, 01:27 AM
above bbm - I was really confused too until a poster here pointed out that would be DS boyfriends daughter, not JS daughter.

Thanks--I am struggling with my thought processes due to severe insomnia for the past 10 days. I just realized how that could work. I was thinking that she was referring to Jonah as her dad, and not that the girlfriend could be Dina. My heavens, I need sleep!

defense101
08-13-2011, 01:32 AM
There are factors that many posters have touch on what will set the tone for the prosecution. If LE finds actions that suggest a premeditated acts then you will see a 1st Degree count. If the actions prove to be incidental then a manslaughter count may be pressed. It all depends on what the evidence and actions points too. Which may include why some guests left the house before Tuesday night and why some remained.

Recalling the direct verbiage used by LE. They stated that she had bindings on her and used the word suspended not hanged. The types of bindings becomes significant in that it dictates a premeditate action verses a reactive action.

Asking someone or going yourself to home depot to buy duct tape, rope and plastic then cranking up an stereo or what ever and going insane most likely won't cut it. Picking up items that are lying around in the room may be more so acceptable.

I think the orange extension cord or tie down is just part of the prior event and had nothing to do with the appeared staged hanging.

According to LE JS is out of it. I think they confirmed that after the request for the hospital tapes were made he had a alibi.

The only way that MS death will be connected to RN death is if they (LE) gets a confession other than that the two deaths are not related. If they are not related then no temporary insanity plea can be made. If a temporary insanity plea is made then the deaths are related but LE will need a confession.

The bottom line to this case is how well the investigation and forensic team did their job.

Inobu
If the death occurred prior to suspending/hanging the bindings could have been used for control so the death could be accomplished. If either DS or JS are found to have committed the crime (if it is determined that a crime was committed), imo even without a confession you could determine that the two incidents are connected.

Carrington
08-13-2011, 01:33 AM
Those comments are very interesting ..


The comments are interesting, I don't think we ever discussed the tapes at the hospital showing JS/DS wearing different clothes.
Of course, Adam or Rebecca could have brought JS a change of clothes to the hospital. And, DS sister could have brought hers.
So, I guess it's just another ?.

IMO

Rhyme & Reason
08-13-2011, 03:44 AM
Thanks--I am struggling with my thought processes due to severe insomnia for the past 10 days. I just realized how that could work. I was thinking that she was referring to Jonah as her dad, and not that the girlfriend could be Dina. My heavens, I need sleep!

LOL I've slept & I was still thinking the same thing as you were!

MsFacetious
08-13-2011, 04:02 AM
It is strange that she stated "He fell off a balcony at his dads house this morning".

Umm.... I find it odd that she never updated on Max's condition... aside from once in the comments on July 19th... and that someone said they were glad Max was going to be okay.... on August 4th. I totally thought I missed something huge... :waitasec:

Bonepile
08-13-2011, 07:25 AM
Rebecca Mawaii Zahau
1979 - 2011
“I am with my Lord where there is no pain, no tears, no more sadness nor crying, and where there is no more death.”

Theforeigner
08-13-2011, 10:19 AM
Shacknai speaks; mystery answers could come next week

CORONADO, Calif. -- Conclusion to a nearly month-long death mystery at the Spreckels Mansion on Coronado could come by the end of next week.
The San Diego Sheriff’s Department said Tuesday it expects to release information on the death of 32-year-old Rebecca Zahau as soon as it gets toxicology results, which could be by next Friday.

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-shacknai-speaks-mystery-answers-could-come-next-week-20110809,0,3128257.story

I'm sure this is a duplicate post from thread #5. Worth posting again.

One more week or less!

There seems to be new info concerning JS's wereabouts at the time of MS's accident in that newsreport.
It also repeet the calim that it was RN's little sister who was at the house:

Quote:

"Two days before she died, Shacknai’s 6-year-old son Max was fatally injured after falling near a flight of stairs. His death is being investigated by Coronado Police as an accident. Rebecca Zahau and her 13-year-old sister were the only other two people inside the home when the fall happened. Police said Shacknai was returning from the gym at the time."

Quester
08-13-2011, 10:51 AM
I believe AS’ story of cutting RN down and this is why:

I believe that weathered teak table leg broke when the weight of AS alone or AS + RN was upon it.

That table was placed with two legs which look to be on the grass just beside the brick pathway and two legs which look to be on the brick pathway. Now those two legs on brick (or just one of the legs) could have slid, splaying the legs under the added weight to a mortise join between the bricks or even off the brick pathway, snapping one of the legs at the join to the table top.

Otherwise, under normal use, that 4-legged table may have carried on to support many more breakfasts, lunches, etc. And, with all four legs on grass or even a solid surface, a little weight (dishes, food, etc) and movement would not have snapped a leg as it would as I described above.

Note: I acknowledge that we have no indication whether or not the table and all four legs were intact prior to the day RN was found in the courtyard. However, if a leg had been broken from the table prior to this date, I find it highly unlikely that the table would have remained in the courtyard in its broken state with small children around (or anyone around for that matter).

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb282/skov_album/RNonthelawnsharpversion.jpg

defense101
08-13-2011, 12:04 PM
I believe AS’ story of cutting RN down and this is why:

I believe that weathered teak table leg broke when the weight of AS alone or AS + RN was upon it.

That table was placed with two legs which look to be on the grass just beside the brick pathway and two legs which look to be on the brick pathway. Now those two legs on brick (or just one of the legs) could have slid, splaying the legs under the added weight to a mortise join between the bricks or even off the brick pathway, snapping one of the legs at the join to the table top.

Otherwise, under normal use, that 4-legged table may have carried on to support many more breakfasts, lunches, etc. And, with all four legs on grass or even a solid surface, a little weight (dishes, food, etc) and movement would not have snapped a leg as it would as I described above.

Note: I acknowledge that we have no indication whether or not the table and all four legs were in-tack prior to the day RN was found in the courtyard. However, if a leg had been broken from the table prior to this date, I find it highly unlikely that the table would have remained in the courtyard in its broken state with small children around (or anyone around for that matter).

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb282/skov_album/RNonthelawnsharpversion.jpg yup as well the leg laying under the table where it stood the day RN was found, might show that it was intact to that day. imo

Quester
08-13-2011, 02:09 PM
Anyone been able to figure out who (name) the un-named psychologist was in the following article (dated 7/25) and whether or not he/she is involved in this case?

Seems so unusual that a reporter didn't properly introduce the name?? OR, is this typical not to name a psychologist in a contentious divorce in a newspaper?

BBM in article quote; I noted the he but could this be wrong? (When did DS get her license?)


Nearly 10 years ago, as [JS] and his first wife were in the middle of a hard-fought divorce, his estranged wife was clear about one thing: The driven business executive may have been a poor husband, but he was a devoted father. The couple have a daughter, 14, and son, 13.

The chairman and chief executive of Medicis Pharmaceutical Corp. spent long hours at work, she said. During their honeymoon he'd asked his wife whether he had made a mistake, according to court records. A psychologist who evaluated the couple during the divorce to help determine custody said he thought [JS] had been defensive and might have had some unresolved anger issues.

But, wrote the psychologist, "It was quite apparent to me that his children are most important to him and he loves them dearly."

...

In the late 1980s, he helped found Medicis — which markets acne and anti-wrinkle treatments around the world — and in 1993 married his first wife, [KJ]. Leading up to their divorce a few years later, the two had a rocky relationship, according to court records.

After the divorce, [JS] married his second wife, [DS].

7/25 http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-jonah-shacknai-20110725,0,5072719.story?page=1&obref=obinsite

time
08-13-2011, 02:28 PM
Inobu ... I don't think they have ruled anyone out, let alone JS. The hospital tapes could have shown several gaps in whereabouts for both DR and JS as far as we know. I'm not sure anyone ever verified DR was there the entire time?

Others related on DR side also include her sister and now her boyfriend and his family.

Inobu
08-13-2011, 02:31 PM
No matter which way you look at it the evidence keeps point back to a staging scene. Here are two factors which would negates the table being broken in the said manner.

The total weight of AS and RN has to be 280lb + minimum. 170 for AS 110 for RN. Having 280 lb standing weight on that table, then having one leg breaking would have all 280lbs shifting to the broken side, driving that edge of the table to the ground. More damage would have occurred with the applied weight to the table tops edge. The fact that the table was still standing and the location of the leg questions the theory.

Another point to take into consideration (as pointed out is) the location of the table prior to the event. To move a broken table and carry it's leg and place it under the table is highly unlike unless...once again staging is the intent. The tables placement in the images presented does not appear to be its normal placement.

Here is the final point which makes me question the tables positioning.

The leg is broken outward from the right side yet the leg is to the left of the legs normal position. It rest under the table to the left. It contradicts the theory of down weight force breaking the leg. The three remaining legs would prevent lateral movement and the direction of the broken leg and the walkway are aligned which counters the shifting or loss of balance.

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb474/lauriejcampbell/roundtableremoved.jpg

Notice the right angled piece as it flares outward to the right. That damage is more inline with the table being dragged from the right and the leg getting caught in the mortice and broken off. The leg being tossed under the table appears to be more likely the case.

Notice that there art no splinters in the wood nor stress fractures.

Inobu

time
08-13-2011, 02:37 PM
Anyone been able to figure out who (name) the un-named psychologist was in the following article (dated 7/25) and whether or not he/she is involved in this case?

Seems so unusual that a reporter didn't properly introduce the name?? OR, is this typical not to name a psychologist in a contentious divorce in a newspaper?

BBM in article quote; I noted the he but could this be wrong? (When did DS get her license?)

I always wondered where all this came from. Was all this in a court transcript or something? .... weren't most or all of their records sealed or was that just the final settlement? I don't think any psychologist would give out this info themselves, not sure if they would comment on it if it were made public or if perhaps the first wife, KS/KJ, and JS gave the psychologist permission?

Inobu
08-13-2011, 02:41 PM
Inobu ... I don't think they have ruled anyone out, let alone JS. The hospital tapes could have shown several gaps in whereabouts for both DR and JS as far as we know. I'm not sure anyone ever verified DR was there the entire time?

Others related on DR side also include her sister and now her boyfriend and his family.

I think that LE made that comment "not a suspect " when the lawyer appeared on the scene in late July. Everyone else remains as witnesses.

Inobu

I need to clarify that I'm just going off memory....

"I'm not Jonah's lawyer. I've never spoke with him. As far as I know he's not a suspect of any type," Pfingst said in a statement. One can take creedence in his comment is that he has full disclosure in order to represent a "defendant"

time
08-13-2011, 03:14 PM
I think that LE made that comment "not a suspect " when the lawyer appeared on the scene in late July. Everyone else remains as witnesses.

Inobu

I need to clarify that I'm just going off memory....

"I'm not Jonah's lawyer. I've never spoke with him. As far as I know he's not a suspect of any type," Pfingst said in a statement. One can take creedence in his comment is that he has full disclosure in order to represent a "defendant"

Well, yeah, no one is a suspect or even a POI according to LE so I guess they can't be ruled out if they were never ruled in! As far as LE has said, DS/DR, JS, and AS are the witnesses we know of.

Inobu
08-13-2011, 03:31 PM
Well, yeah, no one is a suspect or even a POI according to LE so I guess they can't be ruled out if they were never ruled in! As far as LE has said, DS/DR, JS, and AS are the witnesses we know of.

I think LE is trying not to lead the public to any conclusion in order to protect the case. During the jury selection not one potential juror can say that he or she has any prejudiced because there is no information available.

LE does make comments in an attempt to keep the public informed yet protect against public prejudice. Le keeps them all as witnesses but I think the comment I made referenced a conference where the LE (Brown hair, with mustache) alluded to JS not being a suspect, I think is was a bit of a slip of the tongue.

I can't find the video that supports that so it is an assumption on my part until...

Inobu

time
08-13-2011, 03:52 PM
http://lubbockonline.com/national-news/2011-07-19/arizona-ceos-son-girlfriend-die-within-week

Shacknai has two children with his first wife, Kimberly, in 1993. The marriage was unhappy from the start, according to court-ordered family study written by psychologist John DiBacco as part of divorce proceedings. The two met while working for rival pharmaceutical companies. Kimberly told a psychologist that their honeymoon was “terrible” because Shacknai questioned whether he had made a mistake in marrying her.

Quester
08-13-2011, 04:03 PM
Here's an image of the mansion and detached buildings from an angle I hadn't seen before:

http://media.cnbc.com/i/CNBC/Sections/News_And_Analysis/__Story_Inserts/graphics/__CRIME_JUSTICE/Shacknai_murder_house_300.jpg

http://media.cnbc.com/i/CNBC/Sections/News_And_Analysis/__Story_Inserts/graphics/__CRIME_JUSTICE/Shacknai_murder_house_300.jpg

Quester
08-13-2011, 04:26 PM
http://lubbockonline.com/national-news/2011-07-19/arizona-ceos-son-girlfriend-die-within-week

Shacknai has two children with his first wife, Kimberly, in 1993. The marriage was unhappy from the start, according to court-ordered family study written by psychologist John DiBacco as part of divorce proceedings. The two met while working for rival pharmaceutical companies. Kimberly told a psychologist that their honeymoon was “terrible” because Shacknai questioned whether he had made a mistake in marrying her.


Thanks Time! :seeya:

That solves the mystery of the un-named psychologist.

time
08-13-2011, 04:55 PM
I was wrong, I'm not sure the first divorce records were sealed. The second, yes.

DR1999-000301 Case Type: Domestic Relations
File Date: 1/7/1999

FC2008-008253 This Case is Sealed


From public records from KJ & RS divorce...

http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/FamilyCourtCases/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=DR1999-000301

... this guy is somehow involved, interesting as he owns Southwest Skin Specialists (http://www.corporationwiki.com/Arizona/Scottsdale/southwest-skin-specialists/48371196.aspx).

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Arizona/Scottsdale/howard-j-luber/48371208.aspx

He may have been a neighbor or is now?

http://www.city-data.com/maricopa-county/C/Caballo-Drive-3.html

time
08-13-2011, 05:07 PM
When I first looked at RN's divorce records, it just seemed mutual and neither even hired attorneys. Not sure though, maybe one of them didn't finish filing the paperwork on time. Maybe it delayed things? That could have been why there were still financial questions and the Credit card thing?

Quester
08-13-2011, 05:57 PM
I was wrong, I'm not sure the first divorce records were sealed. The second, yes.

DR1999-000301 Case Type: Domestic Relations
File Date: 1/7/1999

FC2008-008253 This Case is Sealed


From public records from KJ & RS divorce...

http://www.superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/FamilyCourtCases/caseInfo.asp?caseNumber=DR1999-000301

... this guy is somehow involved, interesting as he owns Southwest Skin Specialists (http://www.corporationwiki.com/Arizona/Scottsdale/southwest-skin-specialists/48371196.aspx).

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Arizona/Scottsdale/howard-j-luber/48371208.aspx

He may have been a neighbor or is now?

http://www.city-data.com/maricopa-county/C/Caballo-Drive-3.html

So JS & wife #1 slogged it out in court for just over two years (Jan '99 - Apr '01). Makes that 1999 employment agreement all the more pertinent here.

Anyone know what year JS and DS married?

That long slog sounded similar to what I thought I read early on in this case about JS and DS' marriage termination. Namely, JS & DS divorced in '08 or '09 but child custody was contested and finalized in early '11. [I earlier looked for the link but couldn't find it again.]

time
08-13-2011, 07:20 PM
So JS & wife #1 slogged it out in court for just over two years (Jan '99 - Apr '01). Makes that 1999 employment agreement all the more pertinent here.

Anyone know what year JS and DS married?

That long slog sounded similar to what I thought I read early on in this case about JS and DS' marriage termination. Namely, JS & DS divorced in '08 or '09 but child custody was contested and finalized in early '11. [I earlier looked for the link but couldn't find it again.]

I can't find when they got married, my recollection was they were married about three years and got married a couple of years after he divorced from KJ (Was that officially 2001?)
Hard to tell when is the end of either marriage though.

And, this article says "She told police she was attacked by her husband's German shepherd, just as she had been several times in the past. She gave police photos from 2006"

http://abcnews.go.com/US/coronado-mansion-mystery-15-detectives-zahaus-personal-trainer/story?id=14124073

If Max was 6 and maybe they were married a year before he was born, then they got married around 2003/2004?

I think the last claim of abuse was in 2009 or 2010?

And, it does sound like both took a while to get finished.

deanna82437
08-13-2011, 07:55 PM
http://www.scottsdale-az-blog.com/2011/07/20/pv-police-records-unveil-shacknais-stormy-marriage/

The below in bold are from the above link. Regular are my questions:

Jonah and Dina Shacknai were divorced in January after repeated stormy encounters.

Doesn't state a year, but article is from July 2011.

Domestic incidents occurred in September 2008 and January of 2009 according to this article.

Didn't find a marriage date, but saw references to her maiden(?) name of Romano and also referenced as Flores.

Very confusing case and I can see why it's being kept so quiet. Are they planning on having to get a jury? Sure, looks like it !

branwynbreeze
08-13-2011, 08:15 PM
The leg is broken outward from the right side yet the leg is to the left of the legs normal position. It rest under the table to the left. It contradicts the theory of down weight force breaking the leg. The three remaining legs would prevent lateral movement and the direction of the broken leg and the walkway are aligned which counters the shifting or loss of balance.

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb474/lauriejcampbell/roundtableremoved.jpg

Notice the right angled piece as it flares outward to the right. That damage is more inline with the table being dragged from the right and the leg getting caught in the mortice and broken off. The leg being tossed under the table appears to be more likely the case.

Notice that there art no splinters in the wood nor stress fractures.

Inobu[/QUOTE]

Respectfully snipped for space. That is the view of table I wanted to see again. To me, it looks as if a piece is missing from tabletop. If so, think it may be the whitish piece on ground by table.

jwporetenus
08-13-2011, 09:08 PM
Whether JS is utlimately found to have any involvement in RN's death, I must say that I have NEVER been so impressed with a PR firm as I am with the entity that he has retained. When JS retained his PR firm, the articles about the murder went from 1467 to 45 in TWO DAYS. Prior to PR, if you Googled "Jonah," the browser would fill in his last name for you. After PR, you'd have to type his whole name to even get the 45 news articles.

Those 45 leftover articles were total retreads about poor little MS and about JS's grief (there is no sarcasm in that, I say "poor Max" with total sincerity and ditto for JS's grief. In fact, I think that grief may have driven him to some bad, bad place. As a parent, I could see it).

And so it continues -- a modern miracle as here, in the age of HLN and Casey Anthony, there is silence where the outcry should be. Google JS's name and see how few hits you get. The hits that do appear come in two flavors: (1)JS is THE greatest dad EVER and also a tremendous contributor to good causes and society in general; and (2) suicide most certainly IS being considered as a cause of death for RN, and anyone who says otherwise is quite wrong, thank you very much.

Maybe the first flavor has merit, hope it does. The second flavor is, in my opinion, steaming BS and I'm sure not downing it. But no matter what, reasonable minds can agree that Jonah Shacknai has nerves of steel and the sharpest of survival skills. Even in the darkest moment that a parent can ever know, the guy still has his wits about him and spends the cash where it will do the most good -- keeping the media on a tight leash and totally at heel for him. A public relations triumph.

Poor Rebecca. That woman was absolutely murdered. IMOO, of course.

Charlie09
08-13-2011, 09:12 PM
Whether JS is utlimately found to have any involvement in RN's death, I must say that I have NEVER been so impressed with a PR firm as I am with the entity that he has retained. When JS retained his PR firm, the articles about the murder went from 1467 to 45 in TWO DAYS. Prior to PR, if you Googled "Jonah," the browser would fill in his last name for you. After PR, you'd have to type his whole name to even get the 45 news articles.

Those 45 leftover articles were total retreads about poor little MS and about JS's grief (there is no sarcasm in that, I say "poor Max" with total sincerity and ditto for JS's grief. In fact, I think that grief may have driven him to some bad, bad place. As a parent, I could see it).

And so it continues -- a modern miracle as here, in the age of HLN and Casey Anthony, there is silence where the outcry should be. Google JS's name and see how few hits you get. The hits that do appear come in two flavors: (1)JS is THE greatest dad EVER and also a tremendous contributor to good causes and society in general; and (2) suicide most certainly IS being considered as a cause of death for RN, and anyone who says otherwise is quite wrong, thank you very much.

Maybe the first flavor has merit, hope it does. The second flavor is, in my opinion, steaming BS and I'm sure not downing it. But no matter what, reasonable minds can agree that Jonah Shacknai has nerves of steel and the sharpest of survival skills. Even in the darkest moment that a parent can ever know, the guy still has his wits about him and spends the cash where it will do the most good -- keeping the media on a tight leash and totally at heel for him. A public relations triumph.

Poor Rebecca. That woman was absolutely murdered. IMOO, of course.

I get About 518,000 results (0.19 seconds) when I google, and the name still pops up after S

sdcali
08-13-2011, 09:19 PM
yup as well the leg laying under the table where it stood the day RN was found, might show that it was intact to that day. imo

Something that has been bothering me is this. Why, if AS stood on the table to cut RN down, and the table leg broke, is the table still upright? Who righted it? It seems to me that AS would not have the presence of mind to set it upright in light of the tragic circumstances.

And if the table leg broke under the weight of AS cutting RN down, would they both have tumbled onto the brick walkway, getting scraped and bumped in the process?

Did AS have such scrapes? Did RN? And if so, were they fresh and were they likely to have been caused by such a fall or was that story made up to cover defensive wounds caused by RN fighting for her life?

Running with that theory, perhaps AS did NOT, in fact, use the table to cut her down. But going with that story, instead he held the edge of the table and kicked the leg and broke it?

Does anyone else have any theories to why the table was standing, if indeed it was broken under the weight of AS cutting down RN?

Quester
08-13-2011, 09:28 PM
Whether JS is utlimately found to have any involvement in RN's death, I must say that I have NEVER been so impressed with a PR firm as I am with the entity that he has retained. When JS retained his PR firm, the articles about the murder went from 1467 to 45 in TWO DAYS. Prior to PR, if you Googled "Jonah," the browser would fill in his last name for you. After PR, you'd have to type his whole name to even get the 45 news articles.

Those 45 leftover articles were total retreads about poor little MS and about JS's grief (there is no sarcasm in that, I say "poor Max" with total sincerity and ditto for JS's grief. In fact, I think that grief may have driven him to some bad, bad place. As a parent, I could see it).

And so it continues -- a modern miracle as here, in the age of HLN and Casey Anthony, there is silence where the outcry should be. Google JS's name and see how few hits you get. The hits that do appear come in two flavors: (1)JS is THE greatest dad EVER and also a tremendous contributor to good causes and society in general; and (2) suicide most certainly IS being considered as a cause of death for RN, and anyone who says otherwise is quite wrong, thank you very much.

Maybe the first flavor has merit, hope it does. The second flavor is, in my opinion, steaming BS and I'm sure not downing it. But no matter what, reasonable minds can agree that Jonah Shacknai has nerves of steel and the sharpest of survival skills. Even in the darkest moment that a parent can ever know, the guy still has his wits about him and spends the cash where it will do the most good -- keeping the media on a tight leash and totally at heel for him. A public relations triumph.

Poor Rebecca. That woman was absolutely murdered. IMOO, of course.

Wow! Great first post! Welcome jwporetenus! :seeya:

We all now know which PR firm to call if we are ever in a sticky situation!

scorekeeper
08-13-2011, 09:41 PM
jwporetenus,

:fireworks2: :greetings: :welcome:

:aktion: :wave: :wagon:

great post!

score

Quester
08-13-2011, 09:50 PM
Something that has been bothering me is this. Why, if AS stood on the table to cut RN down, and the table leg broke, is the table still upright? Who righted it? It seems to me that AS would not have the presence of mind to set it upright in light of the tragic circumstances.

And if the table leg broke under the weight of AS cutting RN down, would they both have tumbled onto the brick walkway, getting scraped and bumped in the process?

Did AS have such scrapes? Did RN? And if so, were they fresh and were they likely to have been caused by such a fall or was that story made up to cover defensive wounds caused by RN fighting for her life?

Running with that theory, perhaps AS did NOT, in fact, use the table to cut her down. But going with that story, instead he held the edge of the table and kicked the leg and broke it?

Does anyone else have any theories to why the table was standing, if indeed it was broken under the weight of AS cutting down RN?

BBM - If the other leg on the brick path (the one that would have been closest to RN) had broken rather than the one that did, I believe the table would have tipped with the top touching the ground and anyone on it would have tumbled to the ground.

As it is, the table may not have tipped because AS could have been solidly positioned on the table top between the triangle made from the remaining 3 legs. Therefore, the table may have stayed upright throughout the cut down and dismount.

I think it all depends on the positioning of the table in relation to where RN was hanging.

I do wonder if there was some wobbling prior to dismount, as a result of the broken leg, that would have caused AS to twist about which could help to explain the trailing cords positioning issue that was discussed in previous threads??

Paladine
08-13-2011, 10:05 PM
Whether JS is utlimately found to have any involvement in RN's death, I must say that I have NEVER been so impressed with a PR firm as I am with the entity that he has retained. When JS retained his PR firm, the articles about the murder went from 1467 to 45 in TWO DAYS. Prior to PR, if you Googled "Jonah," the browser would fill in his last name for you. After PR, you'd have to type his whole name to even get the 45 news articles.

Those 45 leftover articles were total retreads about poor little MS and about JS's grief (there is no sarcasm in that, I say "poor Max" with total sincerity and ditto for JS's grief. In fact, I think that grief may have driven him to some bad, bad place. As a parent, I could see it).

And so it continues -- a modern miracle as here, in the age of HLN and Casey Anthony, there is silence where the outcry should be. Google JS's name and see how few hits you get. The hits that do appear come in two flavors: (1)JS is THE greatest dad EVER and also a tremendous contributor to good causes and society in general; and (2) suicide most certainly IS being considered as a cause of death for RN, and anyone who says otherwise is quite wrong, thank you very much.

Maybe the first flavor has merit, hope it does. The second flavor is, in my opinion, steaming BS and I'm sure not downing it. But no matter what, reasonable minds can agree that Jonah Shacknai has nerves of steel and the sharpest of survival skills. Even in the darkest moment that a parent can ever know, the guy still has his wits about him and spends the cash where it will do the most good -- keeping the media on a tight leash and totally at heel for him. A public relations triumph.

Poor Rebecca. That woman was absolutely murdered. IMOO, of course.

Welcome :) And what a post: :clap:

I've said the same; it's frustrating. Is this America or Iran? What's up with the 'free press'? Sure...'FREE' to the highest bidder, imo. And the public? We are merely pawns to be played as they see fit. They feed us what they want us to know , so we'll think what they want us to think...imo.

IMO

Paladine
08-13-2011, 10:15 PM
I get when I google, and the name still pops up after S

oh yeah...plenty of older stories, blogs, speculation...not much real solid, investigative, reporting....imo. I think that was the point.

I'm hoping the media is simply respecting the investigation but once the reports are out, that they will go over them with a fine-toothed comb...as we will here. ;)

So...I still harbor a little faith in the media, I guess...I hope it bears out to be warranted.

CuriousAmazon
08-13-2011, 10:15 PM
Same link/page as noted previously, but some new photos, if anyone wants to watch it.

Made me very, very sad to watch this.

http://www.meierhoffer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/zahau_rebecca.swf

Paladine
08-13-2011, 10:43 PM
Same link/page as noted previously, but some new photos, if anyone wants to watch it.

Made me very, very sad to watch this.

http://www.meierhoffer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/zahau_rebecca.swf

I watched it, thanks. I couldn't watch the 1st go round cause my flash wasn't updated....it was sad...and beautiful...but the 2 interposed images it ended with (or my puter froze that way??) was haunting, to me...

The picw/an older Woman and Man, my assumption is her father and mother...well, that one, w/RZ head against that older man's? The feeling ran through my heart, she would never disgrace him by having her body found that way....or any of her family. What woman in her right mind, would? I've seen no evidence RZ was not in her 'right mind', grievng, yes...but most grieving people don't end up that way, imo....it takes some twisted self hate to leave oneself in that condition, imo...

IMO

And in those pictures...I see love...family....excitement for life and its wonders...and, most importantly...a light in her eyes. (you might see something different)

I do not know this woman...but I feel she did not do this to herself...and I feel it strongly.

I hope the police give this case a good going over...I just need to feel she was given a fair shake. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong...and I'll feel sad she could have hated herself that much....but...we'll see, one day closer, peeps! :)

Night all...I gotta sleep.

4Jacy
08-13-2011, 10:50 PM
There are factors that many posters have touch on what will set the tone for the prosecution. If LE finds actions that suggest a premeditated acts then you will see a 1st Degree count. If the actions prove to be incidental then a manslaughter count may be pressed. It all depends on what the evidence and actions points too. Which may include why some guests left the house before Tuesday night and why some remained.

Recalling the direct verbiage used by LE. They stated that she had bindings on her and used the word suspended not hanged. The types of bindings becomes significant in that it dictates a premeditate action verses a reactive action.

Asking someone or going yourself to home depot to buy duct tape, rope and plastic then cranking up an stereo or what ever and going insane most likely won't cut it. Picking up items that are lying around in the room may be more so acceptable.

I think the orange extension cord or tie down is just part of the prior event and had nothing to do with the appeared staged hanging.

According to LE JS is out of it. I think they confirmed that after the request for the hospital tapes were made he had a alibi.

The only way that MS death will be connected to RN death is if they (LE) gets a confession other than that the two deaths are not related. If they are not related then no temporary insanity plea can be made. If a temporary insanity plea is made then the deaths are related but LE will need a confession. Only the perpetrator can link the 2 deaths together anything else is only an assumption on our part.

The bottom line to this case is how well the investigation and forensic team did their job.

Inobu

BBM

Glad to see you posting again Inobu. However, the above bolded is, to me, not the bottom line. To me the bottom line is not "how well the investigation and forensic team did their job." but how much $$$$$$$$$ and power is involved. People, no matter what there position, can be bought and sold, it's done every day.

4Jacy
08-13-2011, 11:03 PM
'nite all. xoxo :seeya: sweet, sweet dreams ~~~~

Inobu
08-13-2011, 11:10 PM
Something that has been bothering me is this. Why, if AS stood on the table to cut RN down, and the table leg broke, is the table still upright? Who righted it? It seems to me that AS would not have the presence of mind to set it upright in light of the tragic circumstances.

And if the table leg broke under the weight of AS cutting RN down, would they both have tumbled onto the brick walkway, getting scraped and bumped in the process?

Did AS have such scrapes? Did RN? And if so, were they fresh and were they likely to have been caused by such a fall or was that story made up to cover defensive wounds caused by RN fighting for her life?

Running with that theory, perhaps AS did NOT, in fact, use the table to cut her down. But going with that story, instead he held the edge of the table and kicked the leg and broke it?

Does anyone else have any theories to why the table was standing, if indeed it was broken under the weight of AS cutting down RN?

There are so many question to that table that does not correlate to the implied event. As you mentioned the tables table should not have remained an upright position after losing its leg. Based on the direction of force (outward) the leg should have been swept away from the table not under it.

For the leg to end up in the opposite direction of force it goes against physics.

To answer your point ".................., perhaps AS did NOT, in fact, use the table to cut her down. But going with that story, instead he held the edge of the table and kicked the leg and broke it?"

Still the legs break direction is opposite of its rest position. The kicking action would have been from the inside outward.

Another note

I wonder if the investigator took notice to AS physical condition. If he was rested or looked as if he had not slept? There are so many answers to questions that could really narrow the leads down.

Inobu

Inobu
08-13-2011, 11:24 PM
BBM

Glad to see you posting again Inobu. However, the above bolded is, to me, not the bottom line. To me the bottom line is not "how well the investigation and forensic team did their job." but how much $$$$$$$$$ and power is involved. People, no matter what there position, can be bought and sold, it's done every day.

Thanks, I had the same thought/fear too but this situation is different in that Coronado is not his main residence. His influence may not be as effective as it would be in his home state. His role in Coronado is done. After this case is wrapped up no politician will come close to him for fear of public opinion/perception. The city's image is tarnished by this event and they don"t care too much for that.

It was a good move to bring the SDSD into the investigation as they are outside the circle of influence per say.

Inobu

deanna82437
08-13-2011, 11:32 PM
Same link/page as noted previously, but some new photos, if anyone wants to watch it.

Made me very, very sad to watch this.

http://www.meierhoffer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/zahau_rebecca.swf

Thank you, very sad, but beautifully done.

deanna82437
08-13-2011, 11:43 PM
I watched it, thanks. I couldn't watch the 1st go round cause my flash wasn't updated....it was sad...and beautiful...but the 2 interposed images it ended with (or my puter froze that way??) was haunting, to me...

The picw/an older Woman and Man, my assumption is her father and mother...well, that one, w/RZ head against that older man's? The feeling ran through my heart, she would never disgrace him by having her body found that way....or any of her family. What woman in her right mind, would? I've seen no evidence RZ was not in her 'right mind', grievng, yes...but most grieving people don't end up that way, imo....it takes some twisted self hate to leave oneself in that condition, imo...

IMO

And in those pictures...I see love...family....excitement for life and its wonders...and, most importantly...a light in her eyes. (you might see something different)

I do not know this woman...but I feel she did not do this to herself...and I feel it strongly.

I hope the police give this case a good going over...I just need to feel she was given a fair shake. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong...and I'll feel sad she could have hated herself that much....but...we'll see, one day closer, peeps! :)

Night all...I gotta sleep.

Thank You! I so agree with all you say and had the very same feelings while watching. The light in her eyes showing her expectations of the wonderful life ahead of her. Such a waste of a beautiful and obviously much loved lady. Very sad and hopefully justice will be done in this case. Thank you again ..

justice be served
08-14-2011, 12:18 AM
Thank you kindly jw -- I could not have said it better and so I will leave it at that!! I am happy you have joined and look forward to your next lucid post with the terrific pragmatic perspective that you have shown.



Whether JS is utlimately found to have any involvement in RN's death, I must say that I have NEVER been so impressed with a PR firm as I am with the entity that he has retained. When JS retained his PR firm, the articles about the murder went from 1467 to 45 in TWO DAYS. Prior to PR, if you Googled "Jonah," the browser would fill in his last name for you. After PR, you'd have to type his whole name to even get the 45 news articles.

Those 45 leftover articles were total retreads about poor little MS and about JS's grief (there is no sarcasm in that, I say "poor Max" with total sincerity and ditto for JS's grief. In fact, I think that grief may have driven him to some bad, bad place. As a parent, I could see it).

And so it continues -- a modern miracle as here, in the age of HLN and Casey Anthony, there is silence where the outcry should be. Google JS's name and see how few hits you get. The hits that do appear come in two flavors: (1)JS is THE greatest dad EVER and also a tremendous contributor to good causes and society in general; and (2) suicide most certainly IS being considered as a cause of death for RN, and anyone who says otherwise is quite wrong, thank you very much.

Maybe the first flavor has merit, hope it does. The second flavor is, in my opinion, steaming BS and I'm sure not downing it. But no matter what, reasonable minds can agree that Jonah Shacknai has nerves of steel and the sharpest of survival skills. Even in the darkest moment that a parent can ever know, the guy still has his wits about him and spends the cash where it will do the most good -- keeping the media on a tight leash and totally at heel for him. A public relations triumph.

Poor Rebecca. That woman was absolutely murdered. IMOO, of course.

elementry
08-14-2011, 12:43 AM
Yes, I agree it could be the balcony overlooking the stairwell plus, it would be DS boyfriend's daughter, possibly the man that the press spoke to at DS's house.

Guess you can put him down as a possible "person of interest". If he was enthrall to DS, and his daughter's heart was broken by the tragedy of MS, and either DS or he may have blamed RN for the calamity, and/or possibly he was influenced by DS to summarily "end" the life of RN in hot blooded retribution, and maybe even to create a PR mess for and/or even a frame-up of JS, who might have been blamed for placing MS in RN's care on that fatal morning of the "fall", and as he was already reviled by DS for dumping her for the young Asian hottie......aww, never mind......

sdcali
08-14-2011, 12:49 AM
There are so many question to that table that does not correlate to the implied event. As you mentioned the tables table should not have remained an upright position after losing its leg. Based on the direction of force (outward) the leg should have been swept away from the table not under it.

For the leg to end up in the opposite direction of force it goes against physics.

To answer your point ".................., perhaps AS did NOT, in fact, use the table to cut her down. But going with that story, instead he held the edge of the table and kicked the leg and broke it?"

Still the legs break direction is opposite of its rest position. The kicking action would have been from the inside outward.

I wonder if the investigator took notice to AS physical condition. If he was rested or looked as if he had not slept? There are so many answers to questions that could really narrow the leads down.

Inobu


Thanks, Inobu. You are right. I read your post about the direction the table leg was broken after I posted. That makes it even more puzzling to me.

Sharyne
08-14-2011, 12:56 AM
I wonder if those boys that knew GS and communicated with her spent a lot of time up on that roof. And if so, I wonder how much more info they may have about what happened that night. In the summer, with no school, kids stay up much later than usual, I bet they heard the music and may have been checking it out from the roof. imo

jwporetenus
08-14-2011, 01:02 AM
Thanks for the warm welcome, all! Websleuths was my news source for the Casey Anthony slog, you guys kept the commentary and insights hot. I finally had to jump in there with you!

It's early, early days in this sad case, but my preliminary prediction is that this will be another JonBenet unsolved case. Despite what I insinuated about JS's grief carrying him to a dark place, my first instinct was that there was something else going on-- someone out to get JS by killing MS and then RN. If so, we will never find out what happened. Professional.

But of course, I can see the alternative scenarios.

Alternative one -- revenge kill. If RN was, or was perceived to be, at fault for MS's death (more accurately, his brain-death at that point), then all bets could have been off. JS or DS could have flipped out. Or maybe they both flipped together. My ex and I stand united against all foes when it comes to our boys -- maybe it's easier for us since our split didnt involve broken fingers, attacking dogs, etc., but maybe JS and DS let bygones be that and united against a common enemy. JS and DS released a joint statement regarding MS's death, and JS's statement addressing the stories about their domestic violence was written to protect DS, too. This was probably perfectly normal and correct -- if there is ever a time for letting go of petty fights and coming together, it's when you and your ex have lost your child. But perhaps it's because they have, to some degree, both been complicit, even if only to keep silence for the other. One point seems clear to me in the revenge-kill scenario --if it was JS, DS or both, they did NOT do it themselves. NOBODY would leave their breathing child for any reason, knowing he was about to be gone forever. Murder could wait-- unless they had someone to do it for them.


Other alternative, and sadly, perhaps the most likely -- blaming it on suicide. Money can buy a lot, and I think JS has MORE influence outside of Coronado than inside it. Big Pharm makes the Mafia look like a soccer team (a really rough soccer team, but still).

I respect all other opinions here for sure, and what do I know anyway(especially given the total news blackout)? But I will stake it all right now that Rebecca has no more committed suicide than I have. Murder, pure and simple -- but only MOO.

Charlie09
08-14-2011, 01:04 AM
Same link/page as noted previously, but some new photos, if anyone wants to watch it.

Made me very, very sad to watch this.

http://www.meierhoffer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/zahau_rebecca.swf

There was a picture with what appeared to be a teenage sister? I don't remember seeing it the first time....did anyone notice?

Charlie09
08-14-2011, 01:07 AM
Thanks for the warm welcome, all! Websleuths was my news source for the Casey Anthony slog, you guys kept the commentary and insights hot. I finally had to jump in there with you!

It's early, early days in this sad case, but my preliminary prediction is that this will be another JonBenet unsolved case. Despite what I insinuated about JS's grief carrying him to a dark place, my first instinct was that there was something else going on-- someone out to get JS by killing MS and then RN. If so, we will never find out what happened. Professional.
.

This was really my thought...except it just seems so personal.
Although if it was a payback for the son, it could be both -

I totally agree - don't think it was suicide

Also - welcome!

jwporetenus
08-14-2011, 01:39 AM
First, i lurk and never post, now I won't shut up.

But one more thing about the theory that MS and RN are related kills that were intended to warn or punish JS for some Big Dark Business Thing.

Something is odd about Medicis's activities before and since the deaths. First there are the big Medicis stock trades by JS just prior to the deaths. Then the deaths occur. Stock fluctuates briefly, then drops. The company is immediately targeted for takeover. Then the murder investigation is delayed while JS appears to be working out an exit strategy from the company.

(Somebody is being paid, ordered, forced, etc. to delay this investigation. JMO, but a very strong opinion.)

That's a lot of action for Medicis in a short time, and the takeover developments seem to be working toward a close at about the time that the results of the investigation may be announced. Maybe it's all totally coincidence. But maybe we should looking more closely at the Medici angle, see what the last few months have looked like with stock trades, trends in Medicis's positioning in the industry and the trajectory of the seemingly-sudden targeting of Medicis for takeover.

StJohn
08-14-2011, 02:41 AM
When I first heard this story, my immediate thought was, this woman was murdered. Hands and feet bound, nude, that's got to be murder. Then I heard experts say that there have been cases of suicides found in just this manner. Then I thought of the awful mental suffering RN must have been experiencing when she heard how serious little Max's injuries were, she may even have been told he would likely not survive. I know this is not a popular opinion, because some refuse to believe that someone with RN's positive, sunny dispostion could ever commit suicide. For some reason, I started thinking tonight of the many people who jumped from the WTC towers after the planes hit the buildings & fires were burning. I would guess that few, if any, of those folks who jumped had been depressed or suicidal when they entered those buildings to begin their work day. I did some research and found an article by a forensic suicide expert, Ronald Maris, and this is what he had to say about why anyone would commit suicide The primary motive of all suicides is escape. What are they fleeing from? In this case, they have escaped from terrible thoughts of being crushed to death, or burned to death, by annihilating their consciousness in a way that is nearly instantaneous http://www.werismyki.com/artcls/falling.html I can see how RN could have been in such mental anguish over Max that she needed to choose the ultimate escape, death. Is that what she did? Time will tell. Many of you have made strong arguments that RN was murdered, and I have to say that I am truly now "on the fence" as to which way this investigation will go.

Theforeigner
08-14-2011, 04:49 AM
I want to know EXACTLEY what day, and time of day, the doctors stated that Max was braindead, and when Rebecca got this message.

If the "braindead" diagnosis wasen't claimed yet previous to Rebecca beeing found wedensday morning July 13th, then suicide is no option at all IMO.
You do not kill yourself because somone MIGHT die, at least not IMO.

Max was not pronounced dead until July 17th, 4 days after Rebecca's death.



And; Welcome to "jwporetenus", GREAT posts, looking forward to read more from you:)

Bonepile
08-14-2011, 07:15 AM
Nudity and suicide?

it really bothers me even though we found our co-worker nude and hanging years ago it bothers me in this case.

If you look at those photos of Rebecca and her perfect clothes, her color selections, her exactness in ear rings, jewelry, that genuine smile I do not see her presenting herself one final time in the nude to the world, her family or her friends. It just simply does not add up.

... and if it turns out that Rebecca was murdered maybe the killer's achilles heel will be the body left minus her clothes. It certainly looks "suspicious" to me, or so it seems.

arielilane
08-14-2011, 07:29 AM
Same link/page as noted previously, but some new photos, if anyone wants to watch it.

Made me very, very sad to watch this.

http://www.meierhoffer.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/zahau_rebecca.swf Thank you,CuriousAmazon for posting this.

arielilane
08-14-2011, 07:51 AM
First, i lurk and never post, now I won't shut up.

But one more thing about the theory that MS and RN are related kills that were intended to warn or punish JS for some Big Dark Business Thing.

Something is odd about Medicis's activities before and since the deaths. First there are the big Medicis stock trades by JS just prior to the deaths. Then the deaths occur. Stock fluctuates briefly, then drops. The company is immediately targeted for takeover. Then the murder investigation is delayed while JS appears to be working out an exit strategy from the company.

(Somebody is being paid, ordered, forced, etc. to delay this investigation. JMO, but a very strong opinion.)

That's a lot of action for Medicis in a short time, and the takeover developments seem to be working toward a close at about the time that the results of the investigation may be announced. Maybe it's all totally coincidence. But maybe we should looking more closely at the Medici angle, see what the last few months have looked like with stock trades, trends in Medicis's positioning in the industry and the trajectory of the seemingly-sudden targeting of Medicis for takeover.
Welcome,jwporetenus! Glad to have another person's perspective. Where are you getting the stock information from? I found it interesting. I was unable to locate " a takeover". The investigation has been ongoing. tia

Lawgirl
08-14-2011, 08:51 AM
Whether JS is utlimately found to have any involvement in RN's death, I must say that I have NEVER been so impressed with a PR firm as I am with the entity that he has retained. When JS retained his PR firm, the articles about the murder went from 1467 to 45 in TWO DAYS. Prior to PR, if you Googled "Jonah," the browser would fill in his last name for you. After PR, you'd have to type his whole name to even get the 45 news articles.

Those 45 leftover articles were total retreads about poor little MS and about JS's grief (there is no sarcasm in that, I say "poor Max" with total sincerity and ditto for JS's grief. In fact, I think that grief may have driven him to some bad, bad place. As a parent, I could see it).

And so it continues -- a modern miracle as here, in the age of HLN and Casey Anthony, there is silence where the outcry should be. Google JS's name and see how few hits you get. The hits that do appear come in two flavors: (1)JS is THE greatest dad EVER and also a tremendous contributor to good causes and society in general; and (2) suicide most certainly IS being considered as a cause of death for RN, and anyone who says otherwise is quite wrong, thank you very much.

Maybe the first flavor has merit, hope it does. The second flavor is, in my opinion, steaming BS and I'm sure not downing it. But no matter what, reasonable minds can agree that Jonah Shacknai has nerves of steel and the sharpest of survival skills. Even in the darkest moment that a parent can ever know, the guy still has his wits about him and spends the cash where it will do the most good -- keeping the media on a tight leash and totally at heel for him. A public relations triumph.

Poor Rebecca. That woman was absolutely murdered. IMOO, of course.

I think she was murdered too.

Lawgirl
08-14-2011, 08:55 AM
First, i lurk and never post, now I won't shut up.

But one more thing about the theory that MS and RN are related kills that were intended to warn or punish JS for some Big Dark Business Thing.

Something is odd about Medicis's activities before and since the deaths. First there are the big Medicis stock trades by JS just prior to the deaths. Then the deaths occur. Stock fluctuates briefly, then drops. The company is immediately targeted for takeover. Then the murder investigation is delayed while JS appears to be working out an exit strategy from the company.

(Somebody is being paid, ordered, forced, etc. to delay this investigation. JMO, but a very strong opinion.)

That's a lot of action for Medicis in a short time, and the takeover developments seem to be working toward a close at about the time that the results of the investigation may be announced. Maybe it's all totally coincidence. But maybe we should looking more closely at the Medici angle, see what the last few months have looked like with stock trades, trends in Medicis's positioning in the industry and the trajectory of the seemingly-sudden targeting of Medicis for takeover.


I like this post. It is a different perspective. I also have gotten a sense of a delay in the forensics/investigation result. I did also see the articles about an intended takeover. Interesting...The reason this case fascinates is because there is not one angle -- there are many! Your perspective definitely is interesting!

I've never been trusting of pharmaceuticals based on all the garbage that I read the tactics they are willing to employ.http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/if-probe-of-shacknai-deaths-lingers-medicis-may-contemplate-life-without-its-ceo/9201

Lawgirl
08-14-2011, 09:11 AM
This is a good article which explains some of the activity surrounding Medicis, the proposed takeover, etc.

http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/if-probe-of-shacknai-deaths-lingers-medicis-may-contemplate-life-without-its-ceo/9201

Quester
08-14-2011, 10:10 AM
First, i lurk and never post, now I won't shut up.

But one more thing about the theory that MS and RN are related kills that were intended to warn or punish JS for some Big Dark Business Thing.

Something is odd about Medicis's activities before and since the deaths. First there are the big Medicis stock trades by JS just prior to the deaths. Then the deaths occur. Stock fluctuates briefly, then drops. The company is immediately targeted for takeover. Then the murder investigation is delayed while JS appears to be working out an exit strategy from the company.

(Somebody is being paid, ordered, forced, etc. to delay this investigation. JMO, but a very strong opinion.)

That's a lot of action for Medicis in a short time, and the takeover developments seem to be working toward a close at about the time that the results of the investigation may be announced. Maybe it's all totally coincidence. But maybe we should looking more closely at the Medici angle, see what the last few months have looked like with stock trades, trends in Medicis's positioning in the industry and the trajectory of the seemingly-sudden targeting of Medicis for takeover.

There sure are alot of interesting angles to these cases and am enjoying reading your perspective and thoughts!

RE: Medicis - A company with financials and market share as Medicis would be in the cross-hairs of many competitors' vision and for some time. As a public company, and depending on the publicly available shares, they would also be at risk for a hostile takeover.

Interestingly, I read recently that a change in JS' employment agreement (effective June 24 2011) included a waiver of the standard non-compete clause in the case of termination based on take-over or sale of company.

[A non-compete clause typically states that an executive cannot work or create a new company that would compete with Medicis for a standard period of one year post termination.]


BBM in the following:

On June 24, 2011, the Stock Option and Compensation Committee (the "Compensation Committee") of the Board of Directors (the "Board") of Medicis Pharmaceutical Corporation ("Medicis" or the "Company") approved an amended and restated employment agreement (the "Employment Agreement") between Medicis and [JS], the Company's Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer, extending [JS]'s contract term through June 30, 2016.
...
Additionally, [JS] is subject to customary restrictive covenants including non-competition, non-solicitation, and protection of confidential information covenants during his employment and for one year following termination of employment; provided, however, that, the non-competition and non-solicitation covenants will not apply in the event of [JS]'s termination of employment in connection with a change in control of the Company.

http://seekingalpha.com/news-article/1360470-medicis-pharmaceutical-corp-files-8-k-disclosing-change-in-directors-or-principal-officers

scorekeeper
08-14-2011, 10:18 AM
When I first heard this story, my immediate thought was, this woman was murdered. Hands and feet bound, nude, that's got to be murder. Then I heard experts say that there have been cases of suicides found in just this manner. Then I thought of the awful mental suffering RN must have been experiencing when she heard how serious little Max's injuries were, she may even have been told he would likely not survive. I know this is not a popular opinion, because some refuse to believe that someone with RN's positive, sunny dispostion could ever commit suicide. For some reason, I started thinking tonight of the many people who jumped from the WTC towers after the planes hit the buildings & fires were burning. I would guess that few, if any, of those folks who jumped had been depressed or suicidal when they entered those buildings to begin their work day. I did some research and found an article by a forensic suicide expert, Ronald Maris, and this is what he had to say about why anyone would commit suicide http://www.werismyki.com/artcls/falling.html I can see how RN could have been in such mental anguish over Max that she needed to choose the ultimate escape, death. Is that what she did? Time will tell. Many of you have made strong arguments that RN was murdered, and I have to say that I am truly now "on the fence" as to which way this investigation will go.

StJohn,

Thanks for a great post. One of the great things about WS is that everyone should have their own opinions and be able to post those opinions without any fear. Yes, sometimes we do have "little heated discussions" but a good argument once in awhile is good for you (mentally) :floorlaugh:.

We can always agree to disagree......:waitasec:

I have been on the "murdered" side of the fence :fence: but I hope that once LE makes their final determination, all the evidence is released so that all our questions will be answered.

Hope we get some answers this week.

score:seeya:

scorekeeper
08-14-2011, 10:34 AM
There sure are alot of interesting angles to these cases and am enjoying reading your perspective and thoughts!

RE: Medicis - A company with financials and market share as Medicis would be in the cross-hairs of many competitors' vision and for some time. As a public company, and depending on the publicly available shares, they would also be at risk for a hostile takeover.

Interestingly, I read recently that a change in JS' employment agreement (effective May 2011 ??) included a waiver of the standard non-compete clause in the case of termination based on take-over or sale of company.

[A non-compete clause typically states that an executive cannot work or create a new company that would compete with Medicis for a standard period of one year post termination.]


BBM in the following:

BBM

The non-compete clause is pretty standard in all business contracts. I would think with JS being an attorney, that would have been in there from the get-go. But due to the economy and the talk of "take over", it makes since for it to be added.

It is known as "Merger Mondays" in the financial world. A lot of the mergers and acquisitions (M & A) are announced on Mondays. IF JS's company is taken over, perhaps he will be glad he has "a year off" to reflect and re-evaluate his life........or he could be spending years some place not as sunny as CA or AZ........

Quester
08-14-2011, 10:46 AM
Originally Posted by Quester ... snipped and added for clarity ...

Interestingly, I read recently that a change in JS' employment agreement (effective June 24 2011) included a waiver of the standard non-compete clause in the case of termination based on take-over or sale of company.

BBM

The non-compete clause is pretty standard in all business contracts. I would think with JS being an attorney, that would have been in there from the get-go. But due to the economy and the talk of "take over", it makes since for it to be added.

It is known as "Merger Mondays" in the financial world. A lot of the mergers and acquisitions (M & A) are announced on Mondays. IF JS's company is taken over, perhaps he will be glad he has "a year off" to reflect and re-evaluate his life........or he could be spending years some place not as sunny as CA or AZ........

BBM - Yes score - BUT the recent change is a WAIVER from this clause in the case of termination due to sale of the company.

In other words, it was a sign that he might have been anticipating and preparing for a sale of the company.

scorekeeper
08-14-2011, 10:51 AM
BBM - Yes score - BUT the recent change is a WAIVER from this clause in the case of termination due to sale of the company.

Quester,

Thanks for the added info...........that makes it more interesting!!

Perhaps, there was rumor in the company that JS was thinking of selling....

score

InTheGarden
08-14-2011, 12:23 PM
The field certainly is getting crowded. Thank you to everyone who brings ideas to this table. I was on the suicide side of the fence, now I'm just getting off the fence, period. I only hope that this is solved and JN's family gets some peace and closure.

From what I have read here, the following scenarios may apply:
1) angry neighbor upset about the approved architectural restoration to be done on the mansion
2) JS or ex-wife taking revenge for their son's tragic accident on JN's watch
3) Jealous ex-husband
4) Pay back by Medicis to force JS out
5) Strategic strike by takeover corporation
6) Stranger/intruder

All I know is I will never be enriching anyone connected with this. I don't have acne and I like my wrinkles; I've earned every one of them.

"This is mess." -- Judge Belvin Perry

Paladine
08-14-2011, 12:32 PM
Welcome,jwporetenus! Glad to have another person's perspective. Where are you getting the stock information from? I found it interesting. I was unable to locate " a takeover". The investigation has been ongoing. tia

I did read and post some info on the proposed takeover. It was a Canadian company named Valeant. They have been doing takeovers of other co's for awhile now....google the company name, they are in growth mode. I, personally, think this angle is a red herring...or reasonable doubt? ;)

Valeant Pharmaceuticals International Inc. has approached Medicis Pharmaceutical Corp. about a possible sale to Valeant, people familiar with the matter said.

The approach comes amid an investigation into what authorities described as the unusual death of the girlfriend of Medicis's founder and chief executive, Jonah Shacknai. Since the girlfriend's death at Mr. Shacknai's home in July, Medicis shares have been underperforming the broader market, leaving the company vulnerable to a takeover approach, said people familiar with the matter.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111904480904576496293954276376.html

On another note....I found this company by learning a friend works for them, lol...you can buy almost anything, or anything, these days, it seems...(wonder if JS has this service, as well?)

Media Monitoring

Coverage of North American print and broadcast outlets, as well as the Internet

With Cision's MediaSource Monitoring, track your media coverage 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Cision monitors more than 50,000 North American news sources including print, TV and radio, news-related websites and blogs.

Convenience you can count on

View and sort news items directly from the MediaSource Monitoring portal. Conveniently order recordings and transcripts, or create professional reports that can be distributed to management and colleagues.

Fast service keeps you ahead of the news cycle

Using the latest monitoring and Internet technology, Cision delivers your media coverage faster than ever before. With early morning delivery, and updates throughout the day sent according to your specified delivery preferences, you can quickly respond and get ahead of the news cycle.

http://insight.cision.com/content/adwords-monitoring-ca

defense101
08-14-2011, 01:05 PM
I think you could look at this both ways in regards to the stocks, Medicis spending 200 mil in stock repurchasing, lower stock prices more shares or Valeant lowering share prices in midst of takeover bid. Now I would have thought those conspiracies possible as big pharma is nasty business, except for the death of MS. I think that is where the conspiracy fails. imo this was personal.

InTheGarden
08-14-2011, 02:00 PM
Another possible theory, maybe they hired the wrong interior decorator. There is only so much an upscale neighborhood can take.

jwporetenus
08-14-2011, 02:04 PM
Re:
I think you could look at this both ways in regards to the stocks, Medicis spending 200 mil in stock repurchasing, lower stock prices more shares or Valeant lowering share prices in midst of takeover bid. Now I would have thought those conspiracies possible as big pharma is nasty business, except for the death of MS. I think that is where the conspiracy fails. imo this was personal.

I agree- one thought though-- i dont think that a 'personal' killing nixes the Medici angle. Medicis IS Shacknai. He built it -- it's literally his (business) baby.
IME, guys like that dont draw a line between personal a d professional-- its ALL personal. Sometimes they take business intrigue MORE personally if their ego is that invested in what tbey created. If that were true here, the personal and professional may be merged here.

But it's TOTAL spec on my part!! Could be that Medici has been in takeover sights all along and JS has been happily phasing out and the deaths are totally unrelated.

Quester
08-14-2011, 02:04 PM
Another possible theory, maybe they hired the wrong interior decorator. There is only so much an upscale neighborhood can take.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

You could be on to something with the interior decorator theory!

Did you see that purple dinning room table? :eek:

jstwondering
08-14-2011, 02:18 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome, all! Websleuths was my news source for the Casey Anthony slog, you guys kept the commentary and insights hot. I finally had to jump in there with you!

It's early, early days in this sad case, but my preliminary prediction is that this will be another JonBenet unsolved case. Despite what I insinuated about JS's grief carrying him to a dark place, my first instinct was that there was something else going on-- someone out to get JS by killing MS and then RN. If so, we will never find out what happened. Professional.

But of course, I can see the alternative scenarios.

Alternative one -- revenge kill. If RN was, or was perceived to be, at fault for MS's death (more accurately, his brain-death at that point), then all bets could have been off. JS or DS could have flipped out. Or maybe they both flipped together. My ex and I stand united against all foes when it comes to our boys -- maybe it's easier for us since our split didnt involve broken fingers, attacking dogs, etc., but maybe JS and DS let bygones be that and united against a common enemy. JS and DS released a joint statement regarding MS's death, and JS's statement addressing the stories about their domestic violence was written to protect DS, too. This was probably perfectly normal and correct -- if there is ever a time for letting go of petty fights and coming together, it's when you and your ex have lost your child. But perhaps it's because they have, to some degree, both been complicit, even if only to keep silence for the other. One point seems clear to me in the revenge-kill scenario --if it was JS, DS or both, they did NOT do it themselves. NOBODY would leave their breathing child for any reason, knowing he was about to be gone forever. Murder could wait-- unless they had someone to do it for them.


Other alternative, and sadly, perhaps the most likely -- blaming it on suicide. Money can buy a lot, and I think JS has MORE influence outside of Coronado than inside it. Big Pharm makes the Mafia look like a soccer team (a really rough soccer team, but still).

I respect all other opinions here for sure, and what do I know anyway(especially given the total news blackout)? But I will stake it all right now that Rebecca has no more committed suicide than I have. Murder, pure and simple -- but only MOO.

BBM What a thoughtful post! Regarding what your comment that I bolded, I have to agree with you on this. I also think that it makes the tobacco companies look like amateurs. :fence: I'm just not sure yet whether I can give up on the ex-wife & mother rage theory yet. IMHO.

4Jacy
08-14-2011, 02:25 PM
Don't throw tomatos...please! But, could JS have found out (recently) that MS was not his son? I know this is completely far fetched, but I want to throw out everything.

Was RN wearing her rings when her body was "discovered?" I take all jewelry off, with the exception of my rings, before I go to bed. Where are the rings, other jewelry, and personal items belonging to RN? Were they returned to her family?

Was it really RN's sister at the mansion and not GS's daughter. And how did that get all confused?

Did the boys on the roof see or hear anything the night before RN was murdered?

Why is it taking so long for the forensics and tox reports to be revealed?

txs

scorekeeper
08-14-2011, 02:35 PM
i am going out of town overnight.....can someone PM if something breaks? I will be back tomorrow afternoon......THANKS

defense101
08-14-2011, 02:46 PM
Re:
I think you could look at this both ways in regards to the stocks, Medicis spending 200 mil in stock repurchasing, lower stock prices more shares or Valeant lowering share prices in midst of takeover bid. Now I would have thought those conspiracies possible as big pharma is nasty business, except for the death of MS. I think that is where the conspiracy fails. imo this was personal.

I agree- one thought though-- i dont think that a 'personal' killing nixes the Medici angle. Medicis IS Shacknai. He built it -- it's literally his (business) baby.
IME, guys like that dont draw a line between personal a d professional-- its ALL personal. Sometimes they take business intrigue MORE personally if their ego is that invested in what tbey created. If that were true here, the personal and professional may be merged here.

But it's TOTAL spec on my part!! Could be that Medici has been in takeover sights all along and JS has been happily phasing out and the deaths are totally unrelated. This is a quote from the president of Medicis at the end of June concerning in regards to the Valeant possible purchase:

During a conference call in late June, company President Mark Prygocki was asked if he thought the company would consider acquisition offers.

"We see ourselves as an acquirer, acquirer of technology, a consolidator amongst existing assets that are out in the dermatology market that are for sale, as we speak. So, we see ourselves as being a buyer," he said.

http://www.dddmag.com/news-Valeant-May-Buy-Medicis-8911.aspx

so it seems that they weren't looking for a sale it would have to be a takeover imo.

defense101
08-14-2011, 03:02 PM
Does anyone have a link to the video when the news was asking the guy questions at DS house? Thanks

MizStery
08-14-2011, 03:18 PM
i am going out of town overnight.....can someone PM if something breaks? I will be back tomorrow afternoon......THANKS


Oh scorekeeper I am worried. Do you think it is a WebSleuths deprogramming intervention? I have been getting some long serious looks every time I refresh the page. Be careful and come back to us. I think they got Ocean. :abduction:

girlinblue
08-14-2011, 03:21 PM
Sorry if this is a moot point/silly question, but this topic is hard to keep up with! Every time I come back there's another thread started...which is great, but alas, confusing.

I don't buy the suicide theory. But the focus on the table leg bothers me. The person who says he cut her down...did he state or has it be specifically stated that he used the table? I don't know why it is bothering me. I think it would be easier to add some puzzle pieces if it was known for sure where she was cut down from. In the heat of the moment I see standing on the table to get to her, but I assume this is the rope that is splayed out behind her in the aerial photos of the body and it seems pretty long. You're not going to get that high and not higher than a hanging body that kicked out a table at the same level. I think my personal first reaction would've been to run inside (if unlocked?) and cut down from the balcony, and the length of the rope seems to suggest that. I just don't know how comfortable I am with the idea that this table is somehow integral and it makes me anxious that something else is being overlooked. If she used it as a platform, I don't see it being broken. If it's suicide, she's going to kick it out or jump when she's ready and being as "put together" as she seems to have been, I imagine her balancing her weight, steadying herself and making sure it held, until it was "time." Unless there was some serious torture "stand on your toes until the table breaks and see if you can live" going on... It's just all so meticulous, suicide or murder, why use a table and not grab a chair or a step ladder? You put that much thought into it to begin with...

It could be a hose or something. It's hard to tell.

Paladine
08-14-2011, 03:50 PM
Oh scorekeeper I am worried. Do you think it is a WebSleuths deprogramming intervention? I have been getting some long serious looks every time I refresh the page. Be careful and come back to us. I think they got Ocean. :abduction:

RBBM

So Hilarious! :floorlaugh: Did she mention the 'resort' she was being taken to?? Maybe we can sleuth it out and find her, returning her safely to her 'puter and our forum...;)

Thanks...:)

(this post in no way encourages the sleuthing of members...let alone those abducted by aliens aka spouses...proceed with caution. ;) )

ETA: You ARE missed, Ocean... :hug:

MizStery
08-14-2011, 03:59 PM
RBBM

So Hilarious! :floorlaugh: Did she mention the 'resort' she was being taken to?? Maybe we can sleuth it out and find her, returning her safely to her 'puter and our forum...;)

Thanks...:)

(this post in no way encourages the sleuthing of members...let alone those abducted by aliens aka spouses...proceed with caution. ;) )

Oh yes, the fact she was packing alone worried me. Everyone knows on you anniversary weekend all you take is a toothbrush,wine opener and change of underwear. Paging Ocean...to the white curtesy phone in the resort lobby...we're sending scorekeeper to bring you back.:escape:

Paladine
08-14-2011, 04:18 PM
Oh yes, the fact she was packing alone worried me. Everyone knows on you anniversary weekend all you take is a toothbrush,wine opener and change of underwear. Paging Ocean...to the white curtesy phone in the resort lobby...we're sending scorekeeper to bring you back.:escape:

LOL! THIS is good :)...:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Bet Ocean has a good laugh when she returns...:)

Lawgirl
08-14-2011, 04:23 PM
BBM What a thoughtful post! Regarding what your comment that I bolded, I have to agree with you on this. I also think that it makes the tobacco companies look like amateurs. :fence: I'm just not sure yet whether I can give up on the ex-wife & mother rage theory yet. IMHO.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/07/15/valeant-idINL3E7IF25X20110715

TORONTO, July 15 (Reuters) - Valeant Pharmaceuticals International Inc (VRX.TO) (VRX.N) wants to become the world's biggest player in the skincare sector in about five years, its top executive told Reuters on Friday.
The company has been signaling its intent with a string of recent mid-sized acquisitions in the highly fragmented but lucrative dermatology sector.

The specialty drugmaker said on Friday it will pay $345 million to buy the skincare unit of Johnson & Johnson-owned (JNJ.N) Janssen Pharmaceuticals.

The news sent the Valeant's shares up 4 percent.

It was the second such deal for Valeant this week. The other was its planned $425 million acquisition of Sanofi's (SASY.PA) Dermik skincare business. Both deals were with large pharmaceutical companies eager to offload non-core assets.

Valeant, which has about 5 percent of the $20 billion market, plans to continue making deals in dermatology as it looks to reach the top faster, Chief Executive Michael Pearson said. When the recent deals close, the company will record about $1 billion in revenue from dermatology.

"We're ambitious in many ways. We just want to be a lot bigger than anyone else," he said in an interview.
While there is significant competition in the dermatology arena, Valeant will be facing smaller rivals, rather than the pharmaceutical giants, which have been beating a hasty retreat from the sector as they look to narrow their focus.

"It's like we're in the lightweight division and we're fighting other lightweights. We're not fighting heavyweights," Pearson said. "It fits us from a scale standpoint."

Pearson's philosophy has been to stay clear of the so-called Big Pharma companies, but engage in partnerships with them instead.

Valeant's main rivals in the industry are Medicis Pharmaceuticals (MRX.N), Allergan Inc (AGN.N), as well as Stiefel Laboratories Inc, which is a unit of GlaxoSmithKline (GSK.L).

Since it dropped a $5.7 billion bid for U.S. drugmaker Cephalon Inc (CEPH.O) in May, there has been speculation that Valeant would go after other large targets. In the same month, the company said it would buy Lithuanian group Sanitas (SAN1L.VL) for about 314 million euros ($443 million).

The company is still considering larger takeovers and can pull off a $6 billion deal, Pearson said.

"Europe is probably lower in the list right now" because of the two recent sizable deals there, Pearson said. The company could look at regions such as Latin America and Australia, he added.

Mississauga, Ontario-based Valeant, which focuses on the neurology and dermatology markets, expects Friday's deal to add to its earnings in 2011.

"They're out there buying assets for cash flow and building a broad dermatology presence. It seems like a pretty sound strategy to me," Stifel Nicolaus analyst Annabel Samimy said.

"The assets that they're buying are not necessarily the ones that require a significant amount of promotion or expense behind them," she added.

Revenue for the Janssen product portfolio, which includes prescription brands Retin-A Micro, Ertaczo and Renova, was about $150 million in 2010.

Valeant's shares were up 4 percent at C$52.47 in Toronto, and up 4.4 percent at $54.94 in New York.

($1=$0.95 Canadian) (Reporting by S. John Tilak in Toronto, additional reporting by Savio D'Souza in Bangalore)

Quester
08-14-2011, 04:44 PM
Sorry if this is a moot point/silly question, but this topic is hard to keep up with! Every time I come back there's another thread started...which is great, but alas, confusing.

I don't buy the suicide theory. But the focus on the table leg bothers me. The person who says he cut her down...did he state or has it be specifically stated that he used the table? I don't know why it is bothering me. I think it would be easier to add some puzzle pieces if it was known for sure where she was cut down from. In the heat of the moment I see standing on the table to get to her, but I assume this is the rope that is splayed out behind her in the aerial photos of the body and it seems pretty long. You're not going to get that high and not higher than a hanging body that kicked out a table at the same level. I think my personal first reaction would've been to run inside (if unlocked?) and cut down from the balcony, and the length of the rope seems to suggest that. I just don't know how comfortable I am with the idea that this table is somehow integral and it makes me anxious that something else is being overlooked. If she used it as a platform, I don't see it being broken. If it's suicide, she's going to kick it out or jump when she's ready and being as "put together" as she seems to have been, I imagine her balancing her weight, steadying herself and making sure it held, until it was "time." Unless there was some serious torture "stand on your toes until the table breaks and see if you can live" going on... It's just all so meticulous, suicide or murder, why use a table and not grab a chair or a step ladder? You put that much thought into it to begin with...

It could be a hose or something. It's hard to tell.

Hi girlinblue! :seeya:

The following are the facts of the case for Wed morning as far as we know to date:

AS (JS' brother) said he discovered RN hanging from the balcony in the courtyard Wed am.
AS said he "cut her down" and administered some form of aid.
AS called 911 (6:48 am Wed) and said there was a woman who appeared deceased (or something to that effect).
Police and paramedics responded, administered some aid and declared RN dead.
LE said she was found with wrists bound and ankles bound but not hogtied.
LE said "makeshift" noose was used; material-rope.
LE said they didn't know what noose rope was attached to "inside" and in some reports gave the impression that no remaining noose rope was visible from the balcony area.
LE would not disclose bindings material although orange electrical cord has been widely reported and something that matches that description is visible in photos.


Unless I've forgotten something, everything else about that morning, including use of the table, is speculation.

Regarding AS cutting her down: If you came upon someone in that situation you would have to make a quick decision: 1) cut her down, or 2) leave her as is. If you chose (1), time is of the essence if there's to be any hope of survival. Anything you do beyond beeline and cut her down would take precious time and risk possible survival. That beeline concept in this case would reasonably include the use of the table. Any other approaches toward RN with other tools or access points would take precious time. (Example: go to garage for ladder; go in house and upstairs to bedroom balcony; etc.)

Hope this helps to answer some of your questions.

CocoChanel
08-14-2011, 05:13 PM
I am really beginning to think that is IS some sort of far-fetched movie-plot type of conspiracy. There are just so many VERY UNUSUAL elements to this case I just can't envision a simple explanation to it all.

I am troubled that we still do not know who the other female was when EMS came to the home for MS. I understand protecting the privacy of children, but surely we would have heard who it was if it was not an important part of this case. Since somehow her identity has been fiercely protected, it must have a bearing on the BIG PICTURE.

And another thing that is really starting to bother me - the presence and then departure of AS. It would be VERY helpful to know when he came to Coronado, when he left, whether he was at the funeral of MS, and where he is now. AS was apparently the only other person at the home at the time of RN's very suspicious death, and yet he seems to have very easily gone back to his life...be it Memphis or on a tugboat somewhere. Something just feels wrong to me about him, and the 'pass' he seems to have gotten from LE.

ALL of the above my own musings of course....

Inobu
08-14-2011, 05:32 PM
Sorry if this is a moot point/silly question, but this topic is hard to keep up with! Every time I come back there's another thread started...which is great, but alas, confusing.

I don't buy the suicide theory. But the focus on the table leg bothers me. The person who says he cut her down...did he state or has it be specifically stated that he used the table? I don't know why it is bothering me. I think it would be easier to add some puzzle pieces if it was known for sure where she was cut down from. In the heat of the moment I see standing on the table to get to her, but I assume this is the rope that is splayed out behind her in the aerial photos of the body and it seems pretty long. You're not going to get that high and not higher than a hanging body that kicked out a table at the same level. I think my personal first reaction would've been to run inside (if unlocked?) and cut down from the balcony, and the length of the rope seems to suggest that. I just don't know how comfortable I am with the idea that this table is somehow integral and it makes me anxious that something else is being overlooked. If she used it as a platform, I don't see it being broken. If it's suicide, she's going to kick it out or jump when she's ready and being as "put together" as she seems to have been, I imagine her balancing her weight, steadying herself and making sure it held, until it was "time." Unless there was some serious torture "stand on your toes until the table breaks and see if you can live" going on... It's just all so meticulous, suicide or murder, why use a table and not grab a chair or a step ladder? You put that much thought into it to begin with...

It could be a hose or something. It's hard to tell.

It is the number of devices in the scene that is giving your trouble. Suicides are deliberate acts. Many occur in confine or private/concealed spaces depending on the driving circumstances. Public suicides are normally people trying to make their issue public.

There are just too many inconsistent variable that makes the scene unrealistic.

Lets step back through the event.


Start
RN find bindings
RN finds rope
RN finds orange cord
RN Disrobes leaving blue article around neck.
RN Places bindings on hand and feet
RN carries orange cord and rope to yard
RN attaches rope above balcony through railing
RN Move table to walkway
RN Breaks legs on table
RN climbs on table 3 legged table
RN places Noose around neck
RN placing orange cord around feet
RN placing orange cord on hands
RN steps through hand allowing hand to be in back of her while standing on table
RN leaping from table
RN hangs herself
AS waking up.
AS finds RN hanging
AS calls 911
AS cutting RN down
AS Placing RN in the grass
RN lying in the grass.
EMT arrives
End


Step 7 negates Step 6 Why have the bindings when you have orange cord to tie the hands and feet.

The insertion of the table can vary between RN usage verses AS usage but its placement by either party negates the others action.

If RN used the table then her height would have to be lower than the table due to the slack needed for movement while tying herself. Her jump would have toppled the table.
If AS used the table how did RN achieved the height needed to hang herself. If RH did not use the table then how did the leg break and end up under the table.
If RN did not use the table then AS would not need the table to cut her down so why is the table in the middle of the walkway with a broken leg.


Just does not add up.

Inobu

If I left anything out feel free to clear it up.

arielilane
08-14-2011, 05:58 PM
Don't throw tomatos...please! But, could JS have found out (recently) that MS was not his son? I know this is completely far fetched, but I want to throw out everything.

Was RN wearing her rings when her body was "discovered?" I take all jewelry off, with the exception of my rings, before I go to bed. Where are the rings, other jewelry, and personal items belonging to RN? Were they returned to her family?

Was it really RN's sister at the mansion and not GS's daughter. And how did that get all confused?

Did the boys on the roof see or hear anything the night before RN was murdered?

Why is it taking so long for the forensics and tox reports to be revealed?

txs
I'm glad you brought up the question about it being RZ's sister or GS being at the manison at the time of the accident. I have read/heard both and I remain unclear if it was RZ's younger sister or if it was GS there the day of Max's fall or if both of them were there. Who knows?

arielilane
08-14-2011, 06:00 PM
Yes, I don't see any connection. The usual business practice. They (Valeant) want the monopoly. Although, I don't think the deaths are related to Medicis. Other than JS being the owner. However, I do think Max's unfortunate accident and RZ's incident are related. We will hopefully find out this week.

Inobu
08-14-2011, 06:23 PM
Another week or so and we will be accusing each other. (as I cut my eyes at arielilane hopping back on the fence) :fence:

defense101
08-14-2011, 07:12 PM
Another week or so and we will be accusing each other. (as I cut my eyes at arielilane hopping back on the fence) :fence: lol we could all be called witnesses by LE. I think we all may be in for a surprise when LE does finally either make a statement (suicide) or arrest someone because we have all gone around in circles a few times. I have my suspects rated with JS DS and NN at the top but still going in circles. Each time someone mentions something that gets my brain going I'm back looking at someone else. I have what I consider to be my main poi and will have to see what comes of it. I think telephone records can be key here as well as forensics, whose fingerprints and dna are there that shouldn't be in the house. The table in the back courtyard leads you one way then another. Is it staged or was it used, if it was used why is it in the position it is? It shouldn't be standing up especially considering where the broken leg is, it would be the exact corner of the table that AS would need to stand on in order to cut RN down. I'm very confused right now, I hope we hear something soon.

Inobu: I didn't read your post carefully enough, I am now seeing what you mean about the table with height, so AS wouldn't necessarily have used the table if RN committed suicide, the only way he would need to use the table is if she was murdered? Am I reading that right?

Bonepile
08-14-2011, 07:17 PM
and the "boys on the roof" ...

How young were they? Did they have a camera? Are there any photos, and if so who might have them? Were they interviewed? If old enough did they Tweet to their friends? Or facebook? Were they responsible for the loud music? Do they even exist?

Lawgirl
08-14-2011, 07:23 PM
lol we could all be called witnesses by LE. I think we all may be in for a surprise when LE does finally either make a statement (suicide) or arrest someone because we have all gone around in circles a few times. I have my suspects rated with JS DS and NN at the top but still going in circles. Each time someone mentions something that gets my brain going I'm back looking at someone else. I have what I consider to be my main poi and will have to see what comes of it. I think telephone records can be key here as well as forensics, whose fingerprints and dna are there that shouldn't be in the house. The table in the back courtyard leads you one way then another. Is it staged or was it used, if it was used why is it in the position it is? It shouldn't be standing up especially considering where the broken leg is, it would be the exact corner of the table that AS would need to stand on in order to cut RN down. I'm very confused right now, I hope we hear something soon.

Suppose they deem it to be a homicide, but cannot name a suspect -- then what? Just curious... the case just stays open until and unresolved until eternity?

defense101
08-14-2011, 07:34 PM
Suppose they deem it to be a homicide, but cannot name a suspect -- then what? Just curious... the case just stays open until and unresolved until eternity?

:eek:

jjenny
08-14-2011, 08:17 PM
Suppose they deem it to be a homicide, but cannot name a suspect -- then what? Just curious... the case just stays open until and unresolved until eternity?

It would be just like any case where police know it's murder but don't have suspects.

TorisMom003
08-14-2011, 10:45 PM
I had not heard about this case until a few days ago. I wanted to read all of the posts on all of the threads before I commented on if I thought this could really be a suicide to see if someone else had posted what my thoughts were. I was also hoping that there would be more information that had come out by the time I got to the last current post. Unfotunately it does not seem that has happened.

I do not feel that this is a suicide. Based on how RN was found, suicide does not make sense (IMO). Here are my problems:

1. Let's say that RN was depressed over Max's fall and resulting coma. Why would she take her own life before Max dies?

2. How is it phsically possible for RN to tie her ankles, her hands together and then hang herself? This does not make sense to me. Let's look at it this way.

A.) This process is if RN hung herself while being on the balcony ~ RN decides to hang herself so she ties a rope to the balcony (after making a noose), drops the rope under the railing of the balcony, finds one or two cords to bind her hands and feet, undresses herself at some point, sits down somewhere and binds her feet together, while still sitting binds her hands together, puts her feet through her arms while still sitting and gets her hands behind her back, grabs the rope and places the noose around her neck (while her hands are behind her back), sits on the railing and falls over the railing.......Would she not hit the wall under the balcony when she swings down? Would that not leave a mark on the wall?

B.) This process is if RN hung herself from below balcony using a table to stand on or just the ground. ~ RN decides to hang herself, makes a noose on one end of rope and ties the other end to the railing of the balcony, finds one or two cords to bind her hands and feet, gets undressed at some point, goes outside the house to under the balcony, sits on the table or the ground and binds her feet, binds her hands, while sitting on the table or the ground puts her feet through her arms, stands up bringing hands behind her back, somehow manages to get her head through the noose without using her hands and gets it down onto her neck, kicks off from the table or slouches down towards the ground to hang herself. Now, if RN can reach the table or the ground then what is the purpose of binding her legs/feet? It will not prevent her from "saving herself" as she can still touch the table or the ground. If the order is reversed and RN places the noose around her neck before putting her hands behind her back, how does she do that? The rope would have to be long enough for her to bend over to get her legs and feet between her arms. If the rope is that long then there is no need to bind her legs/feet as she can easily reach the table or ground.

3. Why would RN commit suicide after making plans to go to the hospital to see Max the next day? If it was because she was told to not come to the hospital or because someone (even just her) blamed her for Max's death, why would she not leave a note to express her guilt and to let JS know that she was sorry?

This whole case does not make alot of sense. There are too many things that are being left unanswered. I personally do not see any way in the world that suicide can even possibly be ruled as what really happened.

MOO

Inobu
08-14-2011, 11:00 PM
lol we could all be called witnesses by LE. I think we all may be in for a surprise when LE does finally either make a statement (suicide) or arrest someone because we have all gone around in circles a few times. I have my suspects rated with JS DS and NN at the top but still going in circles. Each time someone mentions something that gets my brain going I'm back looking at someone else. I have what I consider to be my main poi and will have to see what comes of it. I think telephone records can be key here as well as forensics, whose fingerprints and dna are there that shouldn't be in the house. The table in the back courtyard leads you one way then another. Is it staged or was it used, if it was used why is it in the position it is? It shouldn't be standing up especially considering where the broken leg is, it would be the exact corner of the table that AS would need to stand on in order to cut RN down. I'm very confused right now, I hope we hear something soon.

Inobu: I didn't read your post carefully enough, I am now seeing what you mean about the table with height, so AS wouldn't necessarily have used the table if RN committed suicide, the only way he would need to use the table is if she was murdered? Am I reading that right?

Yes, based on a self inflected suicide the table sets up only one condition of use and places RN in a position that the table becomes useless for AS. The tables condition and position becomes questionable.

If the situation warranted AS usage of the table then RN could not have hung herself. Someone had to lift her to a height above the table which indicated homicide.

This just applies to the deduction of a suicide verses homicide with the rope table and balcony. When you add the orange cord, binding on the hands and feet, nudity, hand secured behind the back, RM, leg bent instead of straight the hanging/suicide becomes less and less of a probability.

Inobu

Inobu
08-14-2011, 11:17 PM
I had not heard about this case until a few days ago. I wanted to read all of the posts on all of the threads before I commented on if I thought this could really be a suicide to see if someone else had posted what my thoughts were. I was also hoping that there would be more information that had come out by the time I got to the last current post. Unfotunately it does not seem that has happened.

I do not feel that this is a suicide. Based on how RN was found, suicide does not make sense (IMO). Here are my problems:

1. Let's say that RN was depressed over Max's fall and resulting coma. Why would she take her own life before Max dies?

2. How is it phsically possible for RN to tie her ankles, her hands together and then hang herself? This does not make sense to me. Let's look at it this way.

A.) This process is if RN hung herself while being on the balcony ~ RN decides to hang herself so she ties a rope to the balcony (after making a noose), drops the rope under the railing of the balcony, finds one or two cords to bind her hands and feet, undresses herself at some point, sits down somewhere and binds her feet together, while still sitting binds her hands together, puts her feet through her arms while still sitting and gets her hands behind her back, grabs the rope and places the noose around her neck (while her hands are behind her back), sits on the railing and falls over the railing.......Would she not hit the wall under the balcony when she swings down? Would that not leave a mark on the wall?

B.) This process is if RN hung herself from below balcony using a table to stand on or just the ground. ~ RN decides to hang herself, makes a noose on one end of rope and ties the other end to the railing of the balcony, finds one or two cords to bind her hands and feet, gets undressed at some point, goes outside the house to under the balcony, sits on the table or the ground and binds her feet, binds her hands, while sitting on the table or the ground puts her feet through her arms, stands up bringing hands behind her back, somehow manages to get her head through the noose without using her hands and gets it down onto her neck, kicks off from the table or slouches down towards the ground to hang herself. Now, if RN can reach the table or the ground then what is the purpose of binding her legs/feet? It will not prevent her from "saving herself" as she can still touch the table or the ground. If the order is reversed and RN places the noose around her neck before putting her hands behind her back, how does she do that? The rope would have to be long enough for her to bend over to get her legs and feet between her arms. If the rope is that long then there is no need to bind her legs/feet as she can easily reach the table or ground.

3. Why would RN commit suicide after making plans to go to the hospital to see Max the next day? If it was because she was told to not come to the hospital or because someone (even just her) blamed her for Max's death, why would she not leave a note to express her guilt and to let JS know that she was sorry?

This whole case does not make alot of sense. There are too many things that are being left unanswered. I personally do not see any way in the world that suicide can even possibly be ruled as what really happened.

MOO

This is just your preliminary assessment wait til you dig into it. It all does not make sense which is why I'm convinced that this area is staged (Yes I'm getting tire of saying just as you are getting tired of reading it.)

LE need to get going on this case.

defense101
08-14-2011, 11:46 PM
I'm going to ask again because I've looked everywhere for the news video of when they spoke to a man at the door of DS's home, please does anyone know where I can find it?

Cracka*Jaxx
08-15-2011, 12:18 AM
From the instant I heard about this case on TV, it screamed 'homicide' to me. Women who commit suicide don't use violent methods; they're more likely to use pills or drowning. I can't imagine anyone- especially a woman- hanging herself while naked. And then to go through all the trouble of tying herself up and awkwardly scrambling off the balcony? What for? It just doesn't make sense.

Whoever was responsible was comfortable being in the house for quite a length of time. They knew she was alone and no one was expected to be coming home. Why was she naked? Could it have been a sex game gone wrong- possibly involving AS? Or was she stripped to cause humiliation. Maybe she had an ex-boyfriend or someone else who felt 'wronged'.

If JS or DS were responsible, they had money enough to hire someone else to do the dirty work. It also could have been a 'hit' related to the pharmaceutical business.

Just some thoughts.

jwporetenus
08-15-2011, 12:35 AM
I'm catching up on everyone's ideas, so many good avenues to explore! I'm still intrigued by the Medicis angle, more on that later.

Just wanted to say a word about the suicide theory-- as I've said, I personally feel very strongly that RN's death was murder, not suicide. My opinion is not based on her reportedly sunny, life-affirming personality -- a person who doesn't fit the stereotypical suicidal personality (depression and/or bipolarity and/or family history of severe depression/suicide, and/or a traumatic head injury and/or a serious-terminal illness, etc.) can take their own life in dire circumstances.

( I respectfully disagree that the 9/11 example is applicable here -- those who jumped from the Towers did so in panic or to escape the horror of the fiery death that literally drove them to the
windows and out. They did not stop and plan an elaborate, naked, self-binding. They leapt in terror beyond any imagining. Whatever agony that RN may or may not have felt due to MS's brain death, I don't think it equates to a literal fireball driving her out a window. But then very little ever could equate to those poor 9/11 victims. Still so awful to imagine what they endured at the last).

But that's not to say that causing a sweet child's death wouldn't make her want to
kill herself. It would sure make ME want to kill myself -- except that, like RN had, I have people who count on me to live no matter what Ive done. Even if I caused a child's death, my mom, sibs, friends, and extended family, including
several young children who love me -- all of whom have loved me longer than three years --would all need for me to live. Would I hate myself so much for
accidentally causing a child's brain-death that I would betray every other person in my life, including my own blood family (and my boyfriend too), by killing myself?

No. And Im not any stronger or saner than you are. I'm average. So far, it seems that RN was, too. She had the same kinds of ties that I have, that you probably have. Would I bail on my kid sister because I accidentally caused a
child's brain death?

But okay, say I did decide to betray everyone, including my parents and siblings, my own blood family, and kill myself because I caused the accidental
brain-death of my boyfriend's child. Would I do it in the most public, embarrassing, in-your-face way I could think of? Would I really go far, far out
of my way to do something genuinely bizarre, public and oh-so-elaborate to essentially say a giant "*#*# you!" to the world, particularly my parents, because I was just so remorseful?

Would I do it in my boyfriend's own house, while he sat at his dying son's bedside, so he'd have my mess to clean up?

Would I do it in a way that would make him a sure target for a police investigation, and negative public speculation -- because I just felt so terrible for causing profound devastation already? Nothing says "Sorry I killed your child!" like making the parent a murder suspect. (and come on, unless she was genuinely mentally feeble, she would HAVE to have known that suicide in this
manner would, shall we say, invite inquiry).

Nope. Not unless I actually hated said boyfriend and everyone else, and believed the world revolved around me. And if I happened to be THAT narcissistic, I wouldnt kill myself to begin with.

And yes, that's me, not RN, but so far, Ive heard nothing that tells me that RN was so terribly different from an average bear like me.

So given all this, in my opinion, the elaborate, freakish means of death does not match the scenario of suicide as (1) an impulsive, desperate flight from guilt, or (2) an act self-punishment due to unbearable remorse. Too calculated for the former, too punishing to JS (and all loved ones) for the latter.

But all that said, this too must be said --what do I know? Not a thing, really, so my opinion really is nothing but MOO -- not just "my own opinion" MOO but also about as meaningful as a cow's MOO without some facts!

But I just can't shake the instinct that this woman did not strip, tie herself up with odd, unwieldy bindings, painfully contort herself into a bizarro pretzel, dive off her boyfriend's house in hopes that the whole rickety hogtie-style contraption would work out in suicide rather than severe fractures, and do that without regard to her own loving family -- just to say how sorry she was for
hurting someone accidentally.

Sometimes--oftentimes-- the simplest answer turns out to be the right answer. So for me, with the facts we know, it's murder.

(But the simple-is-right maxim does whack my whole Medici conspiracy theory,
lol)

TorisMom003
08-15-2011, 12:57 AM
If this is a murder made to "look like a suicide", which IMO it is, then there are three distinct things that need to be asked when looking for the person that did this.

1. Who had so much jealousy or hatred towards RN to want to do this to her?

2. Who had a motive or felt that they had a very good reason (in their mind) to do this to RN?

3. Who wanted to cause not only humiliation to RN but to JS as well? Because let's face it, this kind of death (naked, bound and hung) in his home is going to cause him humiliation as well as the possible loss of revenue from bad publicity.

I personally do not see JS doing this or hiring someone to do this. Especially not in his home. It would be one thing if she had been found somewhere else but not him since she was found in his home. I also don't see his brother AS doing this. I don't see AS having that much hatred towards his brother for him to come running after getting a call from JS concerning Max's fall to only then do something like this shortly after arriving in town. I also don't see NN (RN's ex) as the one to do this. Of course they may have had a "messy" divorce and not been very civil towards one another but it still does not add up for him to do this. For me, that leaves one person. DS could be the answer to all 3 of my questions.

1. DS and JS had a very nasty marriage where they each played "I'm calling 911" on the other. I doubt after years of that type of behavior that they suddenly began to get along. Top it off with a new woman in JS's life that may or may not have been in the picture before the divorce was final and it remains a very tense situation.

2. DS may blame RN for Max's fall as she was the adult in the house at the time that it happened. DS already not liking RN has even more reason now to really hate RN. This could be the straw that broke the camals back.

3. DS would know that this kind of publicity would harm JS's company. JS is a man that puts forward his best face for his business. This type of death would humiliate two people at one time. RN is humiliated because she is dead, naked for all the world to see with her hands tied behind her back. JS is humiliated because his girlfriend is dead, naked for all the world to see with her hands tied behind her back in HIS home.

It is my opinion that even though DS is a woman, she could definately overpower RN. Just based on the photos that I have seen of the two DS is larger while RN is petite. If you factor in the rage and adrenalin then she would be even stronger.

MOO

defense101
08-15-2011, 01:17 AM
There is definitely rage there, but you have to ask yourself who could easily access the home, would RN have opened the door to DS? Who if not JS would RN opened the door to to allow access to the home?

Cracka*Jaxx
08-15-2011, 01:26 AM
DS could be the answer to all 3 of my questions. [SNIP]

2. DS may blame RN for Max's fall as she was the adult in the house at the time that it happened. DS already not liking RN has even more reason now to really hate RN. This could be the straw that broke the camals back.

3. DS would know that this kind of publicity would harm JS's company. JS is a man that puts forward his best face for his business. This type of death would humiliate two people at one time. RN is humiliated because she is dead, naked for all the world to see with her hands tied behind her back. JS is humiliated because his girlfriend is dead, naked for all the world to see with her hands tied behind her back in HIS home.

It is my opinion that even though DS is a woman, she could definately overpower RN. Just based on the photos that I have seen of the two DS is larger while RN is petite. If you factor in the rage and adrenalin then she would be even stronger.

I can imagine that DS was responsible. But if she is, I think she hired someone else to do it- very possibly two people. It would have been too much of a struggle for DS to have done it alone and there would have been all kinds of evidence left at the scene. IMO, whoever did the deed was methodical and experienced.

Inobu
08-15-2011, 01:32 AM
I'm going to ask again because I've looked everywhere for the news video of when they spoke to a man at the door of DS's home, please does anyone know where I can find it?

I recall it being an article written where a reporter knocked on the door and wanted to ask questions but the man said that Dina was not at home and had no comment.

I think arielilane may have found that link. It was during the discussion concerning where Dina's house was located, I remember saying that the reporter found her house.

There are so many pages it a needle in a Nebraska corn field.

Inobu

TorisMom003
08-15-2011, 01:39 AM
Would JS bother changing the alarm code or door locks after his marriage was over? If not DS would have a key still and also know the code to turn off the alarm. RN was found around 6:30 am, however we do not know what time she died. RN could have been in bed asleep, DS quietly enters the house and attacks RN while she is sleeping. Less of a struggle that way. Manual strangulation with a rope that was then used to hang RN.

ETA: There is also the question of why a rug and a painting/mirror was removed from the home after a search warrent was issued on the day that RN died. This tells me it was not something to do with Max's death but did have something to do with RN's death. I'm not sure why a rug would need to be taken in by LE if a suicide occurred outside of the home on a balcony.

Pach
08-15-2011, 01:44 AM
1.) I am curious what were the exact words of AS when he called 911. I have read from one of the posts here, that he said something like "there appears to be a woman bla bla bla" . Sounds like a weird way of describing the situation almost like a geeky or detached way of describing the situation. Can anyone confirm his exact words ?? Why didn't he just said straight out "my sister in law is hanging !

2.) is its true that there was an female witness on that morning, I wonder who saw Rebecca's body first, AS or that female witness ?? or both.

3.) There is the wild possibility that a neighbor or passerby saw the 2 witnesses drag the body so now that they have been "spotted" , they now call 911 and pretend to have "discovered" a female hanging.

4.)Another wild possibility is that the 2nd witness saw AS and that's why AS now calls 911 to report the event.

5.) those reported neighbor's teens who reportedly took photos of Rebecca's body should be called for questioning as well.

6.) and of course, its also possible, that AS was just an innocent witness who woke up to see this horrifying spectacle.

defense101
08-15-2011, 01:45 AM
I recall it being an article written where a reporter knocked on the door and wanted to ask questions but the man said that Dina was not at home and had no comment.

I think arielilane may have found that link. It was during the discussion concerning where Dina's house was located, I remember saying that the reporter found her house.

There are so many pages it a needle in a Nebraska corn field.

Inobu Thanks, I thought I remembered seeing the front door being closed on DS's house after they spoke to the man, but I have gone through every video I could find with no luck, I found the article but no video.

Bonepile
08-15-2011, 01:45 AM
Would JS bother changing the alarm code or door locks after his marriage was over? If not DS would have a key still and also know the code to turn off the alarm. RN was found around 6:30 am, however we do not know what time she died. RN could have been in bed asleep, DS quietly enters the house and attacks RN while she is sleeping. Less of a struggle that way. Manual strangulation with a rope that was then used to hang RN.

Or the blue scarf found around her neck (if it is a blue scarf) and what bothers me is the close proximity of DS's home to JS's home I just get the picture that DS could come and go there as she pleased especially to see MS.

Bonepile
08-15-2011, 01:48 AM
I still go back to total darkness on that night and all that had to happen or be done in darkness if it was suicide cause if it was murder a lot of this could have transpired in the house with the lights turned on, and there has to be "something" on that rug or on that framed item removed under the blanket to say it was "done" in the house.

Inobu
08-15-2011, 02:00 AM
I can imagine that DS was responsible. But if she is, I think she hired someone else to do it- very possibly two people. It would have been too much of a struggle for DS to have done it alone and there would have been all kinds of evidence left at the scene. IMO, whoever did the deed was methodical and experienced.

I try to key on two factors. The source of what i being spoken and the choice of words from the speaking party.

When a homicide investigator uses the phrase "violent death" with tones of condolences it has to be bad. That is what I sense. I agree that most likely two people were involved.

Hit

There are two kinds of hits. Professional or Thug. If anything this is a thug hit..........to leave this mess behind..... under the circumstances I highly doubt that kind of action (Hit call) was taken by anyone here. Remember these people (CEO and PhD) were writing he/she hit me letters to the Chief of Police in PV.

Nothing was thought out in this crime, I would be very surprised if it was.

Inobu

defense101
08-15-2011, 02:03 AM
1.) I am curious what were the exact words of AS when he called 911. I have read from one of the posts here, that he said something like "there appears to be a woman bla bla bla" . Sounds like a weird way of describing the situation almost like a geeky or detached way of describing the situation. Can anyone confirm his exact words ?? Why didn't he just said straight out "my sister in law is hanging !

2.) is its true that there was an female witness on that morning, I wonder who saw Rebecca's body first, AS or that female witness ?? or both.

3.) There is the wild possibility that a neighbor or passerby saw the 2 witnesses drag the body so now that they have been "spotted" , they now call 911 and pretend to have "discovered" a female hanging.

4.)Another wild possibility is that the 2nd witness saw AS and that's why AS now calls 911 to report the event.

5.) those reported neighbor's teens who reportedly took photos of Rebecca's body should be called for questioning as well.

6.) and of course, its also possible, that AS was just an innocent witness who woke up to see this horrifying spectacle.
According to the LE press conference Captain Curran says that AS said on his 911 call that there was a woman on the property and that she appeared to be dead, and from what I heard that AS and RN were the only ones in the home.

Carpe Pacem
08-15-2011, 02:04 AM
I'd have opened the door to the mother of that poor little boy, especially if she said she'd come to pick up his favorite teddy bear or blanket, but that's me.

Pach
08-15-2011, 02:16 AM
I agree. there was only 2 days to plan this if we assume that the planning started to happen on the day that the maxie fell down. with 2 days to plan and emotions clouding the mastermind, I won't be surprised if a lot of evidence were left behind including videocam recordings in a number of places.

I try to key on two factors. The source of what i being spoken and the choice of words from the speaking party.

When a homicide investigator uses the phrase "violent death" with tones of condolences it has to be bad. That is what I sense. I agree that most likely two people were involved.

Hit

There are two kinds of hits. Professional or Thug. If anything this is a thug hit..........to leave this mess behind..... under the circumstances I highly doubt that kind of action (Hit call) was taken by anyone here. Remember these people (CEO and PhD) were writing he/she hit me letters to the Chief of Police in PV.

Nothing was thought out in this crime, I would be very surprised if it was.

Inobu

defense101
08-15-2011, 02:17 AM
I'd have opened the door to the mother of that poor little boy, especially if she said she'd come to pick up his favorite teddy bear or blanket, but that's me.Yes, but DS and JS shared custody, DS's house would have his favorite toys or blankets, no need to go to JS for them imo

Carpe Pacem
08-15-2011, 02:34 AM
Defense 101, you made me smile :o)

My little ones take their favorite blankies wherever they go. One of them's more like a raggedy "something awful" than a blanket, but heaven forfend it should be lost. or forgotten when the family travels. A huge backtracking trip once had to be made when it was left behind at a hotel.

Who knows, though, if that poor little guy was attached to a toy or blanket...

MizStery
08-15-2011, 02:39 AM
I puzzle over the violent humiliating way RN was found. In domestic battery cases you can see an escalation of verbal and physical violence. But here there is no obvious antagonist. If I had to put one word on it ... I guess it would be rage. Who would most find satisfaction in destroying RN. Perhaps someone who felt entitled & they were smarter or just as good-as RN or felt they had nothing to lose.:confused:

CalElliot
08-15-2011, 02:40 AM
Thanks, I thought I remembered seeing the front door being closed on DS's house after they spoke to the man, but I have gone through every video I could find with no luck, I found the article but no video.

Article re Dina at her home may be this one...

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?redirected=true

defense101
08-15-2011, 02:44 AM
Defense 101, you made me smile :o)

My little ones take their favorite blankies wherever they go. One of them's more like a raggedy "something awful" than a blanket, but heaven forfend it should be lost. or forgotten when the family travels. A huge backtracking trip once had to be made when it was left behind at a hotel.

Who knows, though, if that poor little guy was attached to a toy or blanket...

That could very well be...

:offtobed: gnite everyone! see you all in the morning.

CalElliot
08-15-2011, 02:45 AM
I agree. there was only 2 days to plan this if we assume that the planning started to happen on the day that the maxie fell down. with 2 days to plan and emotions clouding the mastermind, I won't be surprised if a lot of evidence were left behind including videocam recordings in a number of places.

Perhaps Max was the original but not guaranteed effective "hit" so RZ was the followup, to ensure that a message was sent?

defense101
08-15-2011, 02:49 AM
Article re Dina at her home may be this one...

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?redirected=true Thanks calelliot, I thought I went through all of them but will try again in the am I think.

Pach
08-15-2011, 03:13 AM
I hope not , otherwise that gives me the jeepers creepers. I just started posting in this forum but, ive been feeling more uneasy thinking about the evil man can do. Ive been keeping an eye on everyone everywhere I walk now LOL


Perhaps Max was the original but not guaranteed effective "hit" so RZ was the followup, to ensure that a message was sent?

Charlie09
08-15-2011, 03:17 AM
I agree. there was only 2 days to plan this if we assume that the planning started to happen on the day that the maxie fell down. with 2 days to plan and emotions clouding the mastermind, I won't be surprised if a lot of evidence were left behind including videocam recordings in a number of places.

We've all assumed that if it is murder it had something to do with Maxie's death...what if it didn't? What if it was planned before and this just made it easier with JS at the hospital?

I've suspected it was a warning of look just how close we can get...

It still seems awfully personal....but what if it was planned further out - would it take anyone out of the picture?

CalElliot
08-15-2011, 04:26 AM
Nothing was thought out in this crime, I would be very surprised if it was.

Inobu

Inobu, I have appreciated your insightful posts. This one of yours is also thought-provoking. If "nothing was thought-out in this crime," then perhaps EVERYTHING was? Absolutes IMO tend to be interchangeable, same as beginnings and endings.

A few random observations to share for discussion and feedback...

- CafePharma.com community threads suggest sexual harrassment of female employees has been rampant at Medicis for years. Could JS have had another relationship ongoing aside from RZ? Or a previous relationship other than his wife that ended badly and led to jealousy toward RZ?

- In portrait photos of JS and RZ with purple background, RZ prominently displays her right hand with ring on wedding ring finger. News reports ID these photos as shot in December 2010. Was the aborted Tuesday party to announce a wedding date?

- Starting in 2007 or 2008, Medicis has (as have many other BP companies) been busy attending to its tarnished image as an illegal promoter (to its financial benefit) of the off-label use of certain drugs. Image laundering tactics have included a relationship with Ethisphere.com, another PR machine.

- MS at hospital at the very least provided opportunity. Were MS and RN BOTH supposed to die the same day but the dog, or something else, intervened?

- A "blue scarf" reportedly a hate crime symbol in Burma neighbor Cambodia. Does this have any relation to the blue object on RZ? Red herring?
http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/8stagesofgenocide.html

- Is the blue object on RZ the blue jacket she wore to go ziplining, as shown in two of the photos in the memorial tribute created by her family? http://www.meierhoffer.com/obituaries/rebecca-m-zahau-2/

- RZ memorial tribute includes no photos of RZ with NN or JS.

- Are RZ's parents still alive? If not, what happened to them? If so, where are they? Were RZ and her sisters orphaned?

- RZ's sister Mary Zahau-Loehner, who has been quite succinct about her POV that RZ did NOT commit suicide, is married to LE... Her husband, Doug Loehner, is a decorated policeman http://www.stjoepd.info/awards.cfm

- In some of the aerial photos of RZ in crime scene, two of the table legs are aligned with the walkway and abut the grass; in others, they're on the bricks, several inches back.

- What is that ongoing feud about between Dr. Arnold Klein and JS?

- Did DS scramble to get licensed post death of her son to legitimize herself? Did she show up for her exam on August 1? http://www.psychboard.az.gov/PDF/agmn/ag46.pdf

- Given RZ body reportedly exposed to the phones and cameras of public and news agencies for at least six hours, how is it that no graphic, unretouched photos or videos of crime scene have appeared on the net?

- What is Google's policy on crime investigations? Does it censor?

- Is Shacknai, a Democrat, being targeted by Big Pharma, as example not to cross its interests in the coinciding with the current debt debate in which billions in future BP profits are at stake?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/08/big-pharma-asked-to-pony-_n_893477.html

- Did someone's child or children die, attributed as a direct or indirect result of a failed Shacknai drug company study? "In the most extensive test so far of its capability to treat autism, the controversial drug secretin has failed to help children with the neurological disorder. On Jan. 5, Repligen of Waltham, Mass., the biotech company seeking to develop secretin for use against autism, announced the disappointing results of its latest trial, which involved 132 children. A protein that occurs naturally in the gut, secretin gained notice as a potential autism cure in 1998, when news media reported a ease in which the substance seemingly cured an autistic boy. Neuroscientists were pleasantly surprised when they later discovered in rodent studies that nerve cells in brain regions implicated in autism respond to secretin, a finding that offered a biological rationale for a gut protein influencing autism (SN: 11/17/01, p. 314). Although Repligen didn't rule out further tests of secretin for some people with autism, the company said it also plans to investigate the protein as a treatment for schizophrenia. Source Citation "Drug fails in autism study." Science News 31 Jan. 2004.

- Was MS autistic? Did he need more than ordinary supervision?

- JS appears to have had botox injections in his forehead, restylane injections in his naso-labial folds, a chin implant to square off his jaw, and cheek implants further eliminate facial wrinkles.

- Where does JS stand in the BP world recently probed by Al Jazeera and Marcia Angell in her NYRB series on the off-label use of drugs?
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/07/20117313948379987.html
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/23/epidemic-mental-illness-why/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jul/14/illusions-of-psychiatry/

And does anyone know of a good timeline app or program?

askfornina
08-15-2011, 07:09 AM
- Given RZ body reportedly exposed to the phones and cameras of public and news agencies for at least six hours, how is it that no graphic, unretouched photos or videos of crime scene have appeared on the net?



i have wondered about this as well. especially with those kids reportedly snapping photos on the roof. i don't recall the source of that information though, can anyone help me out? i would think those kids would attempt to sell those photos, though i really have no idea if a news organization could actually show the uncensored pictures, or if they would even want to buy them or what. maybe these reporters are just being classy/respectful ;) an unlikely scenario i admit.

Paladine
08-15-2011, 09:10 AM
Another week or so and we will be accusing each other. (as I cut my eyes at arielilane hopping back on the fence) :fence:

Lol, maybe...:) Imagination is a wonderous thing...;)

Paladine
08-15-2011, 09:13 AM
and the "boys on the roof" ...

How young were they? Did they have a camera? Are there any photos, and if so who might have them? Were they interviewed? If old enough did they Tweet to their friends? Or facebook? Were they responsible for the loud music? Do they even exist?

Oh, they exist, there was an interview posted with one on some thread, here...anyone have the link? Was his name Brandon? (no last name, minor)

AND did they know anything else? Did they see anything else? What do they know about the family...kids usually know each other somewhat in neighbourhoods, imo...what did those kids know about life in that house, I wonder?

Quester
08-15-2011, 09:45 AM
IF murder and IF DS is responsible:

1. Where was DS’ car between the critical 8 ¾ hours? [10pm Tue – 6:45am Wed]

2. Would DS' car’s on-board GPS system (if it had one) pinpoint her car’s location at all times?

3. If DS had her cell phone with her the whole time between the critical hours, would cell phone pinging differentiate between DS’s home and the mansion?

4. Did DS drive to the mansion or did she park her car near her own home and walk the few blocks to the mansion? [this could be the difference between temporary insanity and premeditated]

Disclaimer: Questions all based on pure speculation.

Quester
08-15-2011, 10:13 AM
Inobu, I have appreciated your insightful posts. This one of yours is also thought-provoking. If "nothing was thought-out in this crime," then perhaps EVERYTHING was? Absolutes IMO tend to be interchangeable, same as beginnings and endings.

A few random observations to share for discussion and feedback...

- CafePharma.com community threads suggest sexual harrassment of female employees has been rampant at Medicis for years. Could JS have had another relationship ongoing aside from RZ? Or a previous relationship other than his wife that ended badly and led to jealousy toward RZ?

- In portrait photos of JS and RZ with purple background, RZ prominently displays her right hand with ring on wedding ring finger. News reports ID these photos as shot in December 2010. Was the aborted Tuesday party to announce a wedding date?

- Starting in 2007 or 2008, Medicis has (as have many other BP companies) been busy attending to its tarnished image as an illegal promoter (to its financial benefit) of the off-label use of certain drugs. Image laundering tactics have included a relationship with Ethisphere.com, another PR machine.

- MS at hospital at the very least provided opportunity. Were MS and RN BOTH supposed to die the same day but the dog, or something else, intervened?

- A "blue scarf" reportedly a hate crime symbol in Burma neighbor Cambodia. Does this have any relation to the blue object on RZ? Red herring?
http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/8stagesofgenocide.html

- Is the blue object on RZ the blue jacket she wore to go ziplining, as shown in two of the photos in the memorial tribute created by her family? http://www.meierhoffer.com/obituaries/rebecca-m-zahau-2/

- RZ memorial tribute includes no photos of RZ with NN or JS.

- Are RZ's parents still alive? If not, what happened to them? If so, where are they? Were RZ and her sisters orphaned?

- RZ's sister Mary Zahau-Loehner, who has been quite succinct about her POV that RZ did NOT commit suicide, is married to LE... Her husband, Doug Loehner, is a decorated policeman http://www.stjoepd.info/awards.cfm

- In some of the aerial photos of RZ in crime scene, two of the table legs are aligned with the walkway and abut the grass; in others, they're on the bricks, several inches back.

- What is that ongoing feud about between Dr. Arnold Klein and JS?

- Did DS scramble to get licensed post death of her son to legitimize herself? Did she show up for her exam on August 1? http://www.psychboard.az.gov/PDF/agmn/ag46.pdf

- Given RZ body reportedly exposed to the phones and cameras of public and news agencies for at least six hours, how is it that no graphic, unretouched photos or videos of crime scene have appeared on the net?

- What is Google's policy on crime investigations? Does it censor?

- Is Shacknai, a Democrat, being targeted by Big Pharma, as example not to cross its interests in the coinciding with the current debt debate in which billions in future BP profits are at stake?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/08/big-pharma-asked-to-pony-_n_893477.html

- Did someone's child or children die, attributed as a direct or indirect result of a failed Shacknai drug company study? "In the most extensive test so far of its capability to treat autism, the controversial drug secretin has failed to help children with the neurological disorder. On Jan. 5, Repligen of Waltham, Mass., the biotech company seeking to develop secretin for use against autism, announced the disappointing results of its latest trial, which involved 132 children. A protein that occurs naturally in the gut, secretin gained notice as a potential autism cure in 1998, when news media reported a ease in which the substance seemingly cured an autistic boy. Neuroscientists were pleasantly surprised when they later discovered in rodent studies that nerve cells in brain regions implicated in autism respond to secretin, a finding that offered a biological rationale for a gut protein influencing autism (SN: 11/17/01, p. 314). Although Repligen didn't rule out further tests of secretin for some people with autism, the company said it also plans to investigate the protein as a treatment for schizophrenia. Source Citation "Drug fails in autism study." Science News 31 Jan. 2004.

- Was MS autistic? Did he need more than ordinary supervision?

- JS appears to have had botox injections in his forehead, restylane injections in his naso-labial folds, a chin implant to square off his jaw, and cheek implants further eliminate facial wrinkles.

- Where does JS stand in the BP world recently probed by Al Jazeera and Marcia Angell in her NYRB series on the off-label use of drugs?
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/07/20117313948379987.html
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/23/epidemic-mental-illness-why/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jul/14/illusions-of-psychiatry/

And does anyone know of a good timeline app or program?

WOW! WOW! WOW! Great post!

Quester
08-15-2011, 10:26 AM
Article re Dina at her home may be this one...

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15075598/questions-remain-after-deaths-of-coronado-mansion-owners-son-girlfriend?redirected=true

From your link and BBM:

[JS]'s ex-wife, a clinical psychologist based in Arizona, also lives part-time at a nearby home in Coronado. News 8 spoke to an unidentified man at her home, who said she was not prepared to make a public statement at this time. He added that she was at the hospital with her son at the time of the incident at the mansion.


My comment:

So it could have been DS' man-friend who OFFERED the information that DS was at the hospital "at the time of the incident".

How would he know what time the incident happened?

How could he be so sure that DS was at the hospital at that particular time?

I wonder if they are still a couple?

Paladine
08-15-2011, 10:43 AM
IF murder and IF DS is responsible:

1. Where was DS’ car between the critical 8 ¾ hours? [10pm Tue – 6:45am Wed]

2. Would DS' car’s on-board GPS system (if it had one) pinpoint her car’s location at all times?

3. If DS had her cell phone with her the whole time between the critical hours, would cell phone pinging differentiate between DS’s home and the mansion?
4. Did DS drive to the mansion or did she park her car near her own home and walk the few blocks to the mansion? [this could be the difference between temporary insanity and premeditated]

Disclaimer: Questions all based on pure speculation.

Good questions...the houses seem quite close together. IIRC, on the ICA case, the pings depended on location of the towers...so we would need to know that, imo...for instance, iirc, we couldn't tell from pinging alone that ICA was home the morning of the 16th...we could only tell she was near home (computer forensics nailed things down further). The houses being so close together might cause some gray area...depending on tower locations and amount of towers in the area...imo.

ETA: Do different cell phone providers share towers in the US? If we knew who her provider was and they don't share towers, might we be able to round up some info on the net as to WHERE the towers are... ?

Inobu
08-15-2011, 11:01 AM
also thought-provoking. If "nothing was thought-out in this crime," then perhaps EVERYTHING was? Absolutes IMO tend to be interchangeable, same as beginnings and endings.



Yes, insanity genius loop. The distance between the two is only a few thoughts apart.

As you say it could be an extensively thought out plan. The only benefit would be that it has hooks into an insanity plea but insanity is not thought out and any premeditated action would weaken the defense.

Insanity is an impromptu actions that leads to a particular end. The question is does the evidence reveal that.

Going with this theory leads us right back to an in-depth staging this time.....:doh:

This case isn't cut and dry as one would expect.

I believe the evidence being made public would not allow for a fair trial hence the secrecy but its bazaar circumstances could have its effect.

:fence:

Inobu

Paladine
08-15-2011, 11:03 AM
A comment on a HuffoPo Canada blog I found interesting...

“The 'naked' part of Zahau's death may be the answer.

The American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law notes that only 5-8% of suicides are naked, and propose some explanations:

1. The 'going out as naked as I arrived' religious explanation
2. Autoerotic Asphyxia gone wrong
3. Parodoxical undressing (common in very cold climates); the urge to disrobe when hypothermic.
4. Intentional disrobing; if committed in a shower or bath. Also, removal of clothing to facilitate suicide
5. method of death; disrobing is only anecdotally connected to hanging, overdose or drowning; no statistical data yet.
source: http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240

IMHO none of these explanations seem to fit here.

However, stripping a victim is not uncommon in homicides. Stripping someone is a way of humilating them, taking away their power, and dehumanizing them. This makes it psychologically easier for a killer to complete the act, and is a common element in genocides.

My bet is that it was a murder, and all the wealthy parties have lawyered up.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/social/floodberg/rebecca-zahau-buried-jonah-shacknai_n_908773_100452763.html

ETA: good source link: http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240

Quester
08-15-2011, 11:20 AM
Out of sheer curiosity, has anyone found a numerology work-up on DS? If so, where?

Paladine
08-15-2011, 11:21 AM
doing a Shacknai search and noticed this...just find it curious...thought I'd share...

It's a search listing from bnet on the Shacknai name...notice in the 'about' section on the search, it lists "MAX". Someone keyed that in....and when people do things, anything, I find there's some motivation behind it; notice other listings have a different 'about', like their company name, etc...I bolded the first few to show you what I mean...

How Pfizer's German Tax Problem Could Cost it $427MAug 12, 2011
about PFE

category Pfizer Inc/, Finance , pfe , and 6 more.

from Resources | BNET


Being Prepared Is Key When Applying For A Minority Startup LoanAug 12, 2011

category Finance

from Latest Press Releases and News From I-Newswire.com


Medicis CEO Shacknai's Contract Put Kids Ahead of CompanyAug 12, 2011
about MAX

category Zahau Nalepa, Finance , House , and 10 more.

from CBS MoneyWatch.com

Medicis CEO Shacknai's Contract Put Kids Ahead of CompanyAug 12, 2011

about MAX

category Zahau Nalepa, Finance , House , and 10 more.

from Resources | BNET


Medicis CEO Shacknai's Contract Put Kids Ahead of CompanyAug 12, 2011

about MAX
category Zahau Nalepa, Finance , House , and 10 more. from Resources | BNET


Medicis CEO Shacknai's Contract Put Kids Ahead of CompanyAug 12, 2011

about MAX

category Zahau Nalepa, Finance , House , and 10 more.

from Resources | BNET


Medicis CEO Shacknai's Contract Put Kids Ahead of CompanyAug 12, 2011

about MAX

category Zahau Nalepa, Finance , House , and 10 more.

from Resources | BNET


Look How Close Groupon Is to Going BankruptAug 12, 2011

about IPO

category Operational Accounting, Finance , Investment , and 5 more.

from Resources | BNET

Read more: http://finance.bnet.com/bnet/news/category?Category=Finance#ixzz1V6wJbiso

Paladine
08-15-2011, 11:27 AM
Out of sheer curiosity, has anyone found a numerology work-up on DS? If so, where?

Ed has Max's...might have Dina's, haven't checked, yet...

his path of destiny = 41 = Mistreatment of a child.
http://edpetersonnumerology.com/2011/07/18/numerology-for-max-shacknai/

defense101
08-15-2011, 11:29 AM
I don't believe this was a big pharma conspiracy crime, are there other instances of these sorts of big pharma crimes? This I believe has to do with a dying child or an opportunistic ex. That why I think phone records will be a key here, other than RN's sister who and when was she talking to that day. Cell phone pings, surveillance cameras and the possible struggle that went on the house prior to being hung will be the answer imo

Paladine
08-15-2011, 11:32 AM
Now, that leads me back to thinking about the seemingly quick exit possibly by GS and the confusion created in media about WHO was really there during Max's accident....

Paladine
08-15-2011, 11:32 AM
I don't believe this was a big pharma conspiracy crime, are there other instances of these sorts of big pharma crimes? This I believe has to do with a dying child or an opportunistic ex. That why I think phone records will be a key here, other than RN's sister who and when was she talking to that day. Cell phone pings, surveillance cameras and the possible struggle that went on the house prior to being hung will be the answer imo

I'm with you. All the way, bud. :)

Quester
08-15-2011, 11:34 AM
Ed has Max's...might have Dina's, haven't checked, yet...


http://edpetersonnumerology.com/2011/07/18/numerology-for-max-shacknai/

Wow - I hadn't read that one before - It was interestingly enlightening - thanks for posting it Paladine! :seeya:

Morag
08-15-2011, 11:48 AM
Now, that leads me back to thinking about the seemingly quick exit possibly by GS and the confusion created in media about WHO was really there during Max's accident....

From the beginning, I have thought that there were others there. The reports of the caller being 13- and GS was 14 1/2. ES is 13, and a 13 year old boy is quite likely to sound like a girl on the phone. The confusion over who the 13 year old was- Rebecca does seem to have a middle-school-aged sister. The dog kennel guy said that Rebecca's 'daughter' was also injured.

If horseplay was involved in the accident- the more kids there, the more likely an accident could have happened.

If, no make that IF- there was another girl there, I would think that would make things much worse for Rebecca, both as a possible suicide, or as a possible murder victim.

PS- could Rebecca's sister actually be her daughter??

Paladine
08-15-2011, 12:11 PM
From the beginning, I have thought that there were others there. The reports of the caller being 13- and GS was 14 1/2. ES is 13, and a 13 year old boy is quite likely to sound like a girl on the phone. The confusion over who the 13 year old was- Rebecca does seem to have a middle-school-aged sister. The dog kennel guy said that Rebecca's 'daughter' was also injured.

If horseplay was involved in the accident- the more kids there, the more likely an accident could have happened.

If, no make that IF- there was another girl there, I would think that would make things much worse for Rebecca, both as a possible suicide, or as a possible murder victim.

PS- could Rebecca's sister actually be her daughter??

I'm a bad one to discuss this with, Morag...;) Honestly, I'm set in my mind it was one of the other Shacknai kids there. Guess, we'll see...

defense101
08-15-2011, 12:12 PM
From the beginning, I have thought that there were others there. The reports of the caller being 13- and GS was 14 1/2. ES is 13, and a 13 year old boy is quite likely to sound like a girl on the phone. The confusion over who the 13 year old was- Rebecca does seem to have a middle-school-aged sister. The dog kennel guy said that Rebecca's 'daughter' was also injured.

If horseplay was involved in the accident- the more kids there, the more likely an accident could have happened.

If, no make that IF- there was another girl there, I would think that would make things much worse for Rebecca, both as a possible suicide, or as a possible murder victim.

PS- could Rebecca's sister actually be her daughter?? A neighbor who was interviewed said he saw the boy MS and his sister playing ball on the front lawn the day before, so there was someone else there. As well Pferrin's listening to the police calls on radio reference on the day of MS accident say that two females were picked up that day taken to the hospital and then returned to the house. We still haven't figured out who it was and the police haven't released that info. So we are left to guess...

Also I think in the girl had been asian the neighbor wouldn't have said his sister which leads me to believe the other female was caucasian.

Paladine
08-15-2011, 12:29 PM
I try to key on two factors. The source of what i being spoken and the choice of words from the speaking party.

When a homicide investigator uses the phrase "violent death" with tones of condolences it has to be bad. That is what I sense. I agree that most likely two people were involved.

Hit

There are two kinds of hits. Professional or Thug. If anything this is a thug hit..........to leave this mess behind..... under the circumstances I highly doubt that kind of action (Hit call) was taken by anyone here. Remember these people (CEO and PhD) were writing he/she hit me letters to the Chief of Police in PV.

Nothing was thought out in this crime, I would be very surprised if it was.

Inobu

This is why I, too, think it was not a 'hit'. Agreed, Inobu.

Boy, on self-reflection, I sure am placing some heavy bets, today. Too long with no evidence, my opinion is settling; not so sure if I'm in the right place, though, lol. :)

Paladine
08-15-2011, 12:41 PM
According to ED, Rebeccas Sisters Destiny?
her path of destiny = 83 = A call for justice.
http://edpetersonnumerology.com/2011/07/19/numerology-for-mary-zahau-loehner/

defense101
08-15-2011, 12:44 PM
According to ED, Rebeccas Sisters Destiny?

http://edpetersonnumerology.com/2011/07/19/numerology-for-mary-zahau-loehner/ It may have been posted before, I just read it yesterday and found both RN and JS very interesting as well.

JS
his path of destiny / how he learns what he is here to learn = 51 = Authorities. The police. The law. Harsh reality. Get a lawyer.

http://edpetersonnumerology.com/2011/07/21/numerology-for-jonah-shacknai-and-rebecca-nalepa/

CalElliot
08-15-2011, 12:48 PM
Out of sheer curiosity, has anyone found a numerology work-up on DS? If so, where?

Also on on Mary Zahau-Loehner...

http://edpetersonnumerology.com/2011/07/19/numerology-for-mary-zahau-loehner/

CalElliot
08-15-2011, 12:51 PM
Oh, see that this is already posted.

CalElliot
08-15-2011, 01:01 PM
Going with this theory leads us right back to an in-depth staging this time.....
This case isn't cut and dry as one would expect.

Inobu

Indeed, either (1) an impromptu crime born of reckless seething rage or (2) an eerily orchestrated message murder with so much staging as to utterly confuse the crime scene..or force JS to reveal information to LE about his business dealngs and potential enemies that he'd rather not?

Perhaps JS called AS to come out because he was FRIGHTENED, though I would think if that were so he'd have hired extra security for the house. That said, JS seems something of a tightwad.

Paladine
08-15-2011, 01:05 PM
Rebecca:

Rebecca M. Nalepa 9525331 4 513571 54 her path of destiny = 54 = Inquiry. Things are not as they appear. Anybody’s guess.
Rebecca M. Nalepa RMN 45
her undoing number = 45 = Bitter marriage. Things go horribly wrong. Unsolved mysteries.
Rebecca Nalepa
9525331 513571 50
her path of destiny = 50 = Family troubles.
Rebecca M. Zahau RMZ 48: her salvation number = MZ = 48 = Remembrance.
So from ages twenty-seven to fifty-four she had the number 11 going on.
11 = Consequences. Need for justice.
Rebecca Zahau 9525331 81813 49 her path of destiny = 49 = Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
And....
Rebecca Nalepa 9 1 1 the most important thing she cannot do and how she lost her heart’s desire both = RA = 91 = Being in the wrong place at the wrong time.


Jonah:
Jonah Shacknai 51 1 5 8 18 325 33

his soul number = 18 = Don’t make no sense.
his outer personality = 33 = Taking a stand.
his path of destiny / how he learns what he is here to learn = 51 = Authorities. The police. The law. Harsh reality. Get a lawyer.

Adam:

Adam Schaknai 1414 13812519 40

his path of destiny = 40 = Trying to help Rebecca Nalepa. Brother of Jonah Shacknai.
Adam Schaknai was born on August 14th according to an acquaintance of his.

August 14th

8 + 14 +2+0+1+0 = 25 = his personal year (from August 14th, 2010 to August 13th, 2011) = Change of residence. On the go.
25 year + 6 (June) = 31 = his personal month (from June 14th, 2011 to July 13th, 2011) = Controversy.

Interesting, to me...more at Ed's site...haven't found Dina, yet...
http://edpetersonnumerology.com/2011/07/21/numerology-for-jonah-shacknai-and-rebecca-nalepa/

CalElliot
08-15-2011, 01:09 PM
Who would most find satisfaction in destroying RN.

Or who would find the most satisfaction in destroying JS? RZ just seems like a victim of her relationship with JS, a target based solely on the latter, a pawn.

Paladine
08-15-2011, 01:09 PM
I see we were all reading and posting some of the same stuff at the same time, lol...I was copying and pasting, took longer than I thought, lol.

Yeah...that's been up for awhile...but, slow news day, and all...;) Hope he does Dinas...anyone see Dinas?

Paladine
08-15-2011, 01:11 PM
I think I'm going to take some time and do my numbers...this stuff is shockingly on point, imo. BBL...

time
08-15-2011, 02:02 PM
Inobu, I have appreciated your insightful posts. This one of yours is also thought-provoking. If "nothing was thought-out in this crime," then perhaps EVERYTHING was? Absolutes IMO tend to be interchangeable, same as beginnings and endings.

A few random observations to share for discussion and feedback...

- CafePharma.com community threads suggest sexual harrassment of female employees has been rampant at Medicis for years. Could JS have had another relationship ongoing aside from RZ? Or a previous relationship other than his wife that ended badly and led to jealousy toward RZ?

- In portrait photos of JS and RZ with purple background, RZ prominently displays her right hand with ring on wedding ring finger. News reports ID these photos as shot in December 2010. Was the aborted Tuesday party to announce a wedding date?

- Starting in 2007 or 2008, Medicis has (as have many other BP companies) been busy attending to its tarnished image as an illegal promoter (to its financial benefit) of the off-label use of certain drugs. Image laundering tactics have included a relationship with Ethisphere.com, another PR machine.

- MS at hospital at the very least provided opportunity. Were MS and RN BOTH supposed to die the same day but the dog, or something else, intervened?

- A "blue scarf" reportedly a hate crime symbol in Burma neighbor Cambodia. Does this have any relation to the blue object on RZ? Red herring?
http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide/8stagesofgenocide.html

- Is the blue object on RZ the blue jacket she wore to go ziplining, as shown in two of the photos in the memorial tribute created by her family? http://www.meierhoffer.com/obituaries/rebecca-m-zahau-2/

- RZ memorial tribute includes no photos of RZ with NN or JS.

- Are RZ's parents still alive? If not, what happened to them? If so, where are they? Were RZ and her sisters orphaned?

- RZ's sister Mary Zahau-Loehner, who has been quite succinct about her POV that RZ did NOT commit suicide, is married to LE... Her husband, Doug Loehner, is a decorated policeman http://www.stjoepd.info/awards.cfm

- In some of the aerial photos of RZ in crime scene, two of the table legs are aligned with the walkway and abut the grass; in others, they're on the bricks, several inches back.

- What is that ongoing feud about between Dr. Arnold Klein and JS?

- Did DS scramble to get licensed post death of her son to legitimize herself? Did she show up for her exam on August 1? http://www.psychboard.az.gov/PDF/agmn/ag46.pdf

- Given RZ body reportedly exposed to the phones and cameras of public and news agencies for at least six hours, how is it that no graphic, unretouched photos or videos of crime scene have appeared on the net?

- What is Google's policy on crime investigations? Does it censor?

- Is Shacknai, a Democrat, being targeted by Big Pharma, as example not to cross its interests in the coinciding with the current debt debate in which billions in future BP profits are at stake?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/08/big-pharma-asked-to-pony-_n_893477.html

- Did someone's child or children die, attributed as a direct or indirect result of a failed Shacknai drug company study? "In the most extensive test so far of its capability to treat autism, the controversial drug secretin has failed to help children with the neurological disorder. On Jan. 5, Repligen of Waltham, Mass., the biotech company seeking to develop secretin for use against autism, announced the disappointing results of its latest trial, which involved 132 children. A protein that occurs naturally in the gut, secretin gained notice as a potential autism cure in 1998, when news media reported a ease in which the substance seemingly cured an autistic boy. Neuroscientists were pleasantly surprised when they later discovered in rodent studies that nerve cells in brain regions implicated in autism respond to secretin, a finding that offered a biological rationale for a gut protein influencing autism (SN: 11/17/01, p. 314). Although Repligen didn't rule out further tests of secretin for some people with autism, the company said it also plans to investigate the protein as a treatment for schizophrenia. Source Citation "Drug fails in autism study." Science News 31 Jan. 2004.

- Was MS autistic? Did he need more than ordinary supervision?

- JS appears to have had botox injections in his forehead, restylane injections in his naso-labial folds, a chin implant to square off his jaw, and cheek implants further eliminate facial wrinkles.

- Where does JS stand in the BP world recently probed by Al Jazeera and Marcia Angell in her NYRB series on the off-label use of drugs?
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/07/20117313948379987.html
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/23/epidemic-mental-illness-why/
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jul/14/illusions-of-psychiatry/

And does anyone know of a good timeline app or program?


Thank you for the well thought out post. While I won't comment on every point, I want to include it in full and want to add some, possibly disjointed, coments!


What is Google's policy on crime investigations? Does it censor?

I've wondered about this because of another case I followed. Initially, there were a few more stories listed in Google, but then one particular news source disappeared (this was like within a day or two). I had to really hunt to find it. Also, I found the only quote that appeared enlarged from Google was from the victim's husband who is also high profile. I have no idea if this is bowing to pressure like a PR firm, random, policy about victims, or what. I'd expect those quotes would be random and would change form day to day?

Google does also try to alter what results you get based on what you have looked at - I don't think that alters full coverage on a specific issue though and it may only be connected based on browser cookies - I dump my cookies every time I close my browser and have a software program to rid my computer of super cookies. If you are signed into Google, I think it also tries to tailor results.


Per Big Pharma... I think Medicis could be involved in R&D of products we might not think like the links I posted before on some Opiate blocker. Who knows what they are developing and producing.

Furthermore, I don't know if the Doctor (his name escapes me) can be believed or not but in a comment on a recent article he claimed Medicis hired unlicensed doctors (from Canada?) - anyone have that link again?

Paladine
08-15-2011, 02:12 PM
Thank you for the well thought out post. While I won't comment on every point, I want to include it in full and want to add some, possibly disjointed, coments!




I've wondered about this because of another case I followed. Initially, there were a few more stories listed in Google, but then one particular news source disappeared (this was like within a day or two). I had to really hunt to find it. Also, I found the only quote that appeared enlarged from Google was from the victim's husband who is also high profile. I have no idea if this is bowing to pressure like a PR firm, random, policy about victims, or what. I'd expect those quotes would be random and would change form day to day?

Google does also try to alter what results you get based on what you have looked at - I don't think that alters full coverage on a specific issue though and it may only be connected based on browser cookies - I dump my cookies every time I close my browser and have a software program to rid my computer of super cookies. If you are signed into Google, I think it also tries to tailor results.


Per Big Pharma... I think Medicis could be involved in R&D of products we might not think like the links I posted before on some Opiate blocker. Who knows what they are developing and producing.

Furthermore, I don't know if the Doctor (his name escapes me) can be believed or not but in a comment on a recent article he claimed Medicis hired unlicensed doctors (from Canada?) - anyone have that link again?

Arnold Klein, maybe? Is that the one you were thinking of?

Paladine
08-15-2011, 02:24 PM
This is from 2009 and it appears, unlike ES's celebration, Rebecca was not officially at GS's:

G.S. will become a batmitzvah on December 5, 2009 at 8:45 am. Celebrating with G. will be her parents Kimberly and Ian James of Paradise Valley and Jonah Shacknai of Paradise Valley. Her grandparents are Marcelle and Gideon Shacknaiof Suffern, NY, Barbara and Ronald Alsobrookof Warren, MI and Angela and Reginald James of Surrey, England. For G’s mitzvah project she did a clothing drive for the Sojourner Center

the original page appears to be removed...I pulled up a HTML cached copy.....

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:WDIebHzSXq8J:www.templechai.com/PDF/chai%2520lights/December%25202009.pdf+arnold+klien+shacknai&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&source=www.google.ca

defense101
08-15-2011, 02:26 PM
Thank you for the well thought out post. While I won't comment on every point, I want to include it in full and want to add some, possibly disjointed, coments!




I've wondered about this because of another case I followed. Initially, there were a few more stories listed in Google, but then one particular news source disappeared (this was like within a day or two). I had to really hunt to find it. Also, I found the only quote that appeared enlarged from Google was from the victim's husband who is also high profile. I have no idea if this is bowing to pressure like a PR firm, random, policy about victims, or what. I'd expect those quotes would be random and would change form day to day?

Google does also try to alter what results you get based on what you have looked at - I don't think that alters full coverage on a specific issue though and it may only be connected based on browser cookies - I dump my cookies every time I close my browser and have a software program to rid my computer of super cookies. If you are signed into Google, I think it also tries to tailor results.


Per Big Pharma... I think Medicis could be involved in R&D of products we might not think like the links I posted before on some Opiate blocker. Who knows what they are developing and producing.

Furthermore, I don't know if the Doctor (his name escapes me) can be believed or not but in a comment on a recent article he claimed Medicis hired unlicensed doctors (from Canada?) - anyone have that link again? The link doesn't seem to work anymore, I believe what it was was they were using doctors from Canada and Europe who were licensed in their respective countries but were not licensed to practice in the US.