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Salem
08-22-2011, 10:34 AM
Please continue here.

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Thanks Guys!


Thread 6

Quester
08-22-2011, 10:43 AM
Reposted - previous thread closed:

Oh look - here's an ABC "suicide" theory article posted late last evening:


8/21 PD: 'Mansion mystery' in Coronado may have been suicide

The bizarre death investigation at a Coronado, Calif. mansion may be getting a little clearer.

A police detective says suicide is looking more likely ...

... guilt may have led her to do it.

Police say it's unusual for a woman to commit suicide, especially nude and out in the open.

But they say [RN] often slept nude and her feet were not tied. [Yep - that's exactly how it is written!]

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/nation...e-been-suicide (http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/pd%3A-%27mansion-mystery%27-in-coronado-may-have-been-suicide)

jjenny
08-22-2011, 10:44 AM
An original article for comparison. Detective is retired, the info that it is likely suicide is not coming from him, and he seems to question that it is suicide because her feet were bound. How all of this gets twisted into the article posted by Quester? The mind boggles.
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Coronado-Mansion-Mystery-a-Suicide-Source-128124368.html

defense101
08-22-2011, 10:47 AM
Reposted - previous thread closed:

Oh look - here's an ABC "suicide" theory article posted late last evening:


8/21 PD: 'Mansion mystery' in Coronado may have been suicide

The bizarre death investigation at a Coronado, Calif. mansion may be getting a little clearer.

A police detective says suicide is looking more likely ...

... guilt may have led her to do it.

Police say it's unusual for a woman to commit suicide, especially nude and out in the open.

But they say [RN] often slept nude and her feet were not tied. [Yep - that's exactly how it is written!]

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/nation...e-been-suicide (http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/pd%3A-%27mansion-mystery%27-in-coronado-may-have-been-suicide) :seeya: You are so good Quester, you must be psychic! Why am I not surprised though?

jjenny
08-22-2011, 10:49 AM
:seeya: You are so good Quester, you must be psychic! Why am I not surprised though?

We've gone to the point where it is now claimed her feet were not bound. Clear cut suicide, don't you know?

defense101
08-22-2011, 10:56 AM
We've gone to the point where it is now claimed her feet were not bound. Clear cut suicide, don't you know? How do they report that when the pictures show clearly they were bound and Captain Curran said that they were in the presser? This is major propaganda imo

jjenny
08-22-2011, 10:58 AM
:seeya: You are so good Quester, you must be psychic! Why am I not surprised though?

I think that article did even better than Quester could ever hope for. I guess "sources with knowledge" of the investigation aren't good enough, the article seem to attribute the whole suicide theory to this retired police detective as if he was one leading the investigation. When in fact the retired police detective seem to be questioning the whole suicide theory because her feet were bound.

jjenny
08-22-2011, 10:59 AM
How do they report that when the pictures show clearly they were bound and Captain Curran said that they were in the presser? This is major propaganda imo

The retired detective questioned as to why she would bind her feet. So how would one deal with it? Why indeed would she bind her feet? It doesn't make much sense. Let's just simply say here feet were not bound! There. Problem solved.
:floorlaugh:

MizStery
08-22-2011, 11:04 AM
Reposted - previous thread closed:

Oh look - here's an ABC "suicide" theory article posted late last evening:


8/21 PD: 'Mansion mystery' in Coronado may have been suicide

The bizarre death investigation at a Coronado, Calif. mansion may be getting a little clearer.

A police detective says suicide is looking more likely ...
... guilt may have led her to do it.
Police say it's unusual for a woman to commit suicide, especially nude and out

in the open.

But they say [RN] often slept nude and her feet were not tied. [Yep - that's exactly how it is written!]

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/nation...e-
been-suicide (http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/pd%3A-%27mansion-mystery%27-in-coronado-may-have-been-suicide)


:goodpost:
This is post # 633 thread #6. (Also,do not miss rereading Quester's post # 632)
It is spot on. Time responding to Quester's post:
Ok Quester I looked it up

Quote:
While it’s unusual for a woman to commit suicide while naked and out in the open, sources said Zahau slept in the nude.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44214448...-san_diego_ca/

Next thing maybe they will claim she slept naked out on the balcony.

My rearrangements: "While it’s unusual for a woman to commit suicide out in the open, sources said Zahau slept in the nude." or "While it’s unusual for a woman to sleep naked, sources said Zahau additionally commited suicide while naked and out in the open."

scorekeeper
08-22-2011, 11:05 AM
Reposted - previous thread closed:

Oh look - here's an ABC "suicide" theory article posted late last evening:


8/21 PD: 'Mansion mystery' in Coronado may have been suicide

The bizarre death investigation at a Coronado, Calif. mansion may be getting a little clearer.

A police detective says suicide is looking more likely ...

... guilt may have led her to do it.

Police say it's unusual for a woman to commit suicide, especially nude and out in the open.

But they say [RN] often slept nude and her feet were not tied. [Yep - that's exactly how it is written!]

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/nation...e-been-suicide (http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/national/pd%3A-%27mansion-mystery%27-in-coronado-may-have-been-suicide)

An original article for comparison. Detective is retired, the info that it is likely suicide is not coming from him, and he seems to question that it is suicide because her feet were bound. How all of this gets twisted into the article posted by Quester? The mind boggles.
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Coronado-Mansion-Mystery-a-Suicide-Source-128124368.html

Here we go...........

The ABC article is a 'rewrite' of the NBC article :banghead::banghead: with possible misinformation (feet bound/not bound)

This is really, really bad reporting.....not checking initial reports from LE

This is leaning///////getting public prepared for suicide :banghead:

Did I miss something.....is one of the 'witnesses' in a mental health facility?

defense101
08-22-2011, 11:07 AM
The retired detective questioned as to why she would bind her feet. So how would one deal with it? Why indeed would she bind her feet? It doesn't make much sense. Let's just simply say here feet were not bound! There. Problem solved.
:floorlaugh: Funny on July 20th he didn't seem to have thought that it was suicide,
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/07/rebecca-zahau-suicide-suspicious-detective-expert-interview-rick-carlson

jjenny
08-22-2011, 11:09 AM
Here we go...........

The ABC article is a 'rewrite' of the NBC article :banghead::banghead: with possible misinformation (feet bound/not bound)
...
[/B]

Yes, it is a re-write and the original article gets twisted to make it a clear cut suicide. And if I were that retired police detective I would really question as to why the article makes it appear as if he is the one involved in the investigation and seem to attribute the suicide theory to him.

scorekeeper
08-22-2011, 11:10 AM
Funny on July 20th he didn't seem to have thought that it was suicide,
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/07/rebecca-zahau-suicide-suspicious-detective-expert-interview-rick-carlson

yes, but now......he is probably a "source" with inside information concerning the investigation.........

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::banghead::banghead:

jjenny
08-22-2011, 11:15 AM
Funny on July 20th he didn't seem to have thought that it was suicide,
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/07/rebecca-zahau-suicide-suspicious-detective-expert-interview-rick-carlson

The abc15 article only used part of his quote. They cut out him questioning as to why would she bind her feet.

Quester
08-22-2011, 11:20 AM
O/T

I must say that last evening here at WS was a fascinating, spirited discussion and I want to thank all of you for your passionate posts!

At times like last evening, WS feels like a large focus group that is being queried by a PR Firm to test out their strategies. [However, don’t expect a check in the mail!]

Can’t wait to see what the next move is and how these cases unfold – and, hopefully it will be in the direction of truth and justice!

defense101
08-22-2011, 11:21 AM
:goodpost:
This is post # 633 thread #6. (Also do not miss rereading Quester's post # 632)
It is spot on. Time responding to Quester's post:

and to add to that:

Originally Posted by jstwondering
or
"While it’s unusual for a woman to commit suicide while naked and out in the open, sources said Zahau often went outside".

jjenny
08-22-2011, 11:23 AM
We should all get the meme. It's very unusual for a woman to kill herself while naked, outside, and with hands and feet bound. But in her case it's not so unusual because she slept in the nude! No doubt she also took a shower in the nude! See, it makes perfect sense for her to hang herself in the nude because she did all these other things in the nude! And feet? Who said the feet were bound? And she obviously felt so guilty, so that's why she killed herself. Nothing to see here. Move along.

time
08-22-2011, 11:27 AM
:goodpost:
This is post # 633 thread #6. (Also,do not miss rereading Quester's post # 632)
It is spot on. Time responding to Quester's post:

Oh, good grief.... now her feet were NOT bound. You did NOT see those pictures. Oh, you mean THOSE pictures, well, uhmmm. Ok, we have just learned from sources that used to be official, "She slept naked with her feet bound"

time
08-22-2011, 11:29 AM
Honestly folks, you know what is coming next. Her feet were bound but not together.

Quester
08-22-2011, 11:32 AM
Everybody say it together now:

If the feets were not tied, you must be settin’ this case aside.

chasing.halos
08-22-2011, 11:35 AM
I think my eyes just rolled completely outta my head. Not fair! I had just gotten them back from losing them in the Casey Anthony trial.

:innocent:

StJohn
08-22-2011, 11:40 AM
Does anyone remember reading anywhere if RN ever took sleep medications? I know some people don't necessarily need a sleeping pill every night, but keep a bottle handy in case they are having a difficult time falling asleep d/t stress, etc. I wonder if LE is waiting to find out, through toxicology, if RN may have taken something like Ambien. This drug has been linked to some very bizarre behavior, including episodes of sleep driving, preparing meals while asleep, etc. Here is a quote & link from an article which includes possible suicidal ideation as a side effect: Ambien can cause unusual and strange thoughts and behavior. Symptoms can be extreme, and can include confusion, suicidal thoughts and actions, worsening of depression, seeing and hearing things that are not there and inappropriate excitement and nervousness, according to MayoClinic.com.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/168336-ambien-dangers/

Some people awaken with no memory of the behaviors they have engaged in while under the effects of this drug.

4Jacy
08-22-2011, 11:43 AM
Here we go...........

The ABC article is a 'rewrite' of the NBC article :banghead::banghead: with possible misinformation (feet bound/not bound)

This is really, really bad reporting.....not checking initial reports from LE

This is leaning///////getting public prepared for suicide :banghead:

Did I miss something.....is one of the 'witnesses' in a mental health facility?

Last paragraph, I heard that also. Is it true, is it DS? txs

time
08-22-2011, 11:50 AM
If Rebecca was that depressed (as claimed and WHO would actually know that) and there was no hope of saving MS from the beginning, how does that actually sync with

* JS never came back to the mansion before RN died (not proven but probable)
* RN never went to the hospital even though she was planning to on Monday and Tues morning (ditto)
* RN's sister did not think she was depressed


One key problem with some source claiming RN was so full of guilt she comitted suicide is obviously how do t hey know that, but also it makes it sound like this was from the beginning not something that overcame her after she talked with her sister late Tues night.

Also

* JS never came back to the mansion right after RN died (ditto)
* AS we don't know where he was for the most part

time
08-22-2011, 11:53 AM
Last paragraph, I heard that also. Is it true, is it DS? txs

I think that is just a theory

arielilane
08-22-2011, 11:53 AM
Her $ hands $ were $ not $ tied $ behind $ her $ back $ even $ though $ the $ photos $ refected $ that...

StJohn
08-22-2011, 12:20 PM
MyBelle, your posts last night and early this am injected a little life in a dying thread. :woohoo:

<modsnip>:peace:

arielilane
08-22-2011, 12:28 PM
Are we no longer allowed to post pictures? tia

arielilane
08-22-2011, 12:32 PM
A News 8 review of similar hanging deaths around the nation may reinforce a possible suicide scenario.

Updated: Aug 21, 2011 2:20 AM EDT
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15294873/coronado-mansion-death-the-suicide-scenario

Money Girl
08-22-2011, 12:45 PM
I will always believe this was a murder. They can put any spin on it they want, but that does not alter my opinion. I don't fall for spin.

scorekeeper
08-22-2011, 12:49 PM
Oh, good grief.... now her feet were NOT bound. You did NOT see those pictures. Oh, you mean THOSE pictures, well, uhmmm. Ok, we have just learned from sources that used to be official, "She slept naked with her feet bound"

Honestly folks, you know what is coming next. Her feet were bound but not together.

Everybody say it together now:

If the feets were not tied, you must be settin’ this case aside.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

What a trip.......

I know we have had discussions about the feet being bound and/or tied together. It is obvious from the pictures (at least for me) that her ankles are wrapped (the right ankle has something wound around it; the left is under her right - could be because they are tied together); if individually, why? bound to chair??

Yes, it was very interesting last evening; I really enjoyed the presentation of new opinions...

scorekeeper
08-22-2011, 12:57 PM
Are we no longer allowed to post pictures? tia

No we are not allowed to post pictures........can provide a link (photobucket or flickr).......saying they may be offensive to some...perhaps someone has the post......also out of respect for RN

Evan's Mom
08-22-2011, 01:01 PM
I will always believe this was a murder. They can put any spin on it they want, but that does not alter my opinion. I don't fall for spin.

What about actual evidence as opposed to broad speculation?
If the evidence shows that this was in fact a suicide, will you believe the "spin" then?

time
08-22-2011, 01:03 PM
A News 8 review of similar hanging deaths around the nation may reinforce a possible suicide scenario.

Updated: Aug 21, 2011 2:20 AM EDT
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15294873/coronado-mansion-death-the-suicide-scenario

Funny, I have searched the web twice now to find any previous info on Juan Lazo from Escondido - claimed int he article to have committed suicide in 2002 but I find zippo. You would think they would provide some reference for these suicide cases they are citing. I'm uncomfortable that they have not since 10 years from now Rebecca could be cited as having committed a bizarre suicide and that is used as evidence another was more likely.

Anyone else find anything on this Juan Lazo case?

defense101
08-22-2011, 01:08 PM
Funny, I have searched the web twice now to find any previous info on Juan Lazo from Escondido - claimed int he article to have committed suicide in 2002 but I find zippo. You would think they would provide some reference for these suicide cases they are citing. I'm uncomfortable that they have not since 10 years from now Rebecca could be cited as having committed a bizarre suicide and that is used as evidence another was more likely.

Anyone else find anything on this Juan Lazo case?
The facts of two of the suicides in the article:

Sharon Akhaven, 21 had only hands tied, and had attempted suicide previously and left a note

Dominico Doy Nguyen, 35, had a bag over his head and had his hands bound together. The suspicious details of this case have led many to question whether Nguyen’s death was indeed a suicide.

All were dressed.

They speak about the father of four with his hands and feet bound, but I couldn't find anything on him either, it happened in 2002.

defense101
08-22-2011, 01:14 PM
What about actual evidence as opposed to broad speculation?
If the evidence shows that this was in fact a suicide, will you believe the "spin" then? As no evidence has been release I have used my websluething ability and discussion with others to come to this conclusion. I believe the evidence that they took from the house shows imo that the crime scene was in fact in the house not outside. The hush hush nature of this investigation and the length of time will make me suspect if they do rule suicide.

scorekeeper
08-22-2011, 01:24 PM
As no evidence has been release I have used my websluething ability and discussion with others to come to this conclusion. I believe the evidence that they took from the house shows imo that the crime scene was in fact in the house not outside. The hush hush nature of this investigation and the length of time will make me suspect if they do rule suicide.

I agree; we have received no information regarding evidence confiscated; everything is sealed (autopsy; search warrants).

We know they carried out a painting/mirror; blue teak table; bags of evidence; piece of carpet. For some reason LE felt the need to analyze the forensics on these pieces of evidence.......they appeared to have found evidence that would make them look further into whether it was a suicide or a homicide....

Aren't most suicides announced once the autopsy is complete? Her autopsy was completed on Thursday, July 14....

time
08-22-2011, 01:38 PM
The facts of two of the suicides in the article:

Sharon Akhaven, 21 had only hands tied, and had attempted suicide previously and left a note

Dominico Doy Nguyen, 35, had a bag over his head and had his hands bound together. The suspicious details of this case have led many to question whether Nguyen’s death was indeed a suicide.

All were dressed.

They speak about the father of four with his hands and feet bound, but I couldn't find anything on him either, it happened in 2002.


Well, I did finally find this

http://www.veromi.com/Search.aspx?sType=name&db=&fn=juan&mn=&ln=lazo&city=escondido&state=CA&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=
LAZO, Juan Carlos Barahona; 31; San Salvador SLV>Escondido CA; NC Times; 2002-1-10; aquii
http://obits.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/obit.cgi?Surname=lazo&type=Keyword&Start=50

arielilane
08-22-2011, 01:43 PM
Funny, I have searched the web twice now to find any previous info on Juan Lazo from Escondido - claimed int he article to have committed suicide in 2002 but I find zippo. You would think they would provide some reference for these suicide cases they are citing. I'm uncomfortable that they have not since 10 years from now Rebecca could be cited as having committed a bizarre suicide and that is used as evidence another was more likely.

Anyone else find anything on this Juan Lazo case?
I found nothing as well.

Salem
08-22-2011, 01:49 PM
WARNING: Drop the conversation from last night. It is over. From this point forward, treat each other respectfully and remember that everyone is allowed to interpret the facts and evidence as they see fit and it is NOT your job to try to convince them otherwise.

If you disagree with a poster and cannot respond without attacking, move past the post. There is no rule you have to respond to every post. There is a rule that you may not attack, bait or disparage others.

Salem

jstwondering
08-22-2011, 02:19 PM
I think my eyes just rolled completely outta my head. Not fair! I had just gotten them back from losing them in the Casey Anthony trial.

:innocent:

That is because your eyes are not tied together...

scorekeeper
08-22-2011, 02:27 PM
Russell Armstrong’s suicide is almost as mysterious as the death of Rebecca Zahau. According to news reports no suicide note was found after Russell Armstrong committed suicide, by hanging, in the bedroom of a friend’s home on Monday. No suicide note….

Rebecca Zahau’s nude body, with her hands and feet bound, was discovered hanging from a second story balcony of the historical Coronado, CA, beachfront home of tycoon Jonah Shacknai–Rebecca’s boyfriend–on July 13th. Immediately after Rebecca’s death authorities sealed all records including the autopsy. Missing from the news reports any mention of a suicide note. Within 24 hours both the Coronado Police Department and the Orange County Sheriff’s Department went on record to push the rather incredulous meme Rebecca Zahau ‘committed suicide’. Three weeks later the news, a ‘source’ within one of the police departments believes Rebecca Zahau’s death is ‘very, very suspicious’.

http://deathby1000papercuts.com/2011/08/russell-armstrong-suicide-allegations-of-russells-sexuality-in-mysterious-tell-all-book/

He wasn't naked, tied up or outside........and no blue scarf

Only similiarity to me is no note......and we don't even know for sure if RN left some type of message.......

jstwondering
08-22-2011, 02:27 PM
A News 8 review of similar hanging deaths around the nation may reinforce a possible suicide scenario.

Updated: Aug 21, 2011 2:20 AM EDT
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15294873/coronado-mansion-death-the-suicide-scenario

IMO, just goes to show how many homicides get mislabeled as suicides, if you ask me.

scorekeeper
08-22-2011, 02:34 PM
Non related case.........but interesting results.......http://blog.al.com/breaking/2011/02/huntsville_womans_death_ruled.html

woman's death was initially invetigated as possible homicide, but once forensic results were completed-----ruled suicide.

AND LE did NOT release another other information or why they ruled 'suicide'......

??????

Do you think they will keep all information sealed in RN's case if they rule 'suicide'????

defense101
08-22-2011, 02:52 PM
http://blog.al.com/breaking/2011/02/huntsville_womans_death_ruled.html

woman's death was initially invetigated as possible homicide, but once forensic results were completed-----ruled suicide.

AND LE did NOT release another other information or why they ruled 'suicide'......

Do you think they will keep all information sealed in RN's case if they rule 'suicide'????I was startled at first, I thought that it was about this case, I was suprised at my reaction, acceptance :eek: then I read on lol. I think that unless the family releases the information they may keep it sealed.

scorekeeper
08-22-2011, 02:57 PM
I was startled at first, I thought that it was about this case, I was suprised at my reaction, acceptance :eek: then I read on lol. I think that unless the family releases the information they may keep it sealed.

I'm so sorry.......:waitasec:

I added a bolded line.......unrelated case/interesting results

Didn't mean to get your blood pressure up.......but guess we have to prepare ourselves that this might be the outcome.....

:great::floorlaugh::great::floorlaugh:

defense101
08-22-2011, 03:04 PM
I found this regarding autopsy's in california

State and local jurisdictions set the laws regulating the release of documents related to an individual's death. Death certificates are considered public records and are usually easy to obtain. The availability of autopsy reports, however, varies with the jurisdiction and the circumstances. In California, for example, anyone may order an autopsy report from a county coroner. If the autopsy is performed privately, however, or performed in a jurisdiction that does not regard a coroner's autopsy as a public document, you may have difficulty obtaining the report.

Read more: How to Obtain Death Records & Autopsy Reports | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_5858232_obtain-death-records-autopsy-reports.html#ixzz1VmnO2As0

This is what SDCO says regarding autopsy reports.

When will the Medical Examiner investigative, toxicology and autopsy reports be ready and how do I obtain copies?
Copies of the autopsy, investigative and toxicology reports will usually be available a few weeks after the cause of death is determined and a death certificate is filed. If you desire these reports, please telephone or write or e-mail this office with your request.


How much does it cost for a copy of a report?
Unsigned copies of reports can be provided via e-mail at no charge. Hard copies of reports are provided at a rate of $1.60 per page, plus the cost of postage. There is no charge for the first copy provided to the legal next-of-kin.

CalElliot
08-22-2011, 03:20 PM
On another note, yet another intriguing comment on Coronado Patch about the silence of the sheriff's dept:

Maybe it's time to examine SD Sheriff's Chief Gore.He is politically connected having worked 32 years in the FBI.His wife also worked in the FBI.His father was a policeman and friends with the mayor and outgoing Sheriff's Chief Bill Kolender.

In 2009 Chief Kolender surprisingly announced he was leaving his post about a year early which opened up the doors for family friend Gore.The County Board of Supervisors appointed Gore to replace Chief Kolender until an election the following year which Gore used to his political advantage.

Chief Gore and wife have one son who lives in Arizona but no information yet to any ties with AZ based Jonah Shacknai.This Sheriff Gore is the man responsible for NEWS RELEASES instead of Press Conferences with the media.....geez... even our President has to face the media and answer questions Sheriff Gore.....you're no longer in the FBI and work for the Federal Government.....the time is long overdue to inform the public/community on the Rebecca Zahau investigation.

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/spreckels-mystery-tv-report-says-detectives-reasonably-confident-zahau-killed-herself

I am also intrigued about an earlier post in Thread #6 about fed raid on Nexbio in San Diego. It would take some time to look at all the board members etc to determine if there's a Medicis link here. But certainly quite possible.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/aug/04/feds-raid-san-diego-vaccine-developer/

Bonepile
08-22-2011, 04:00 PM
I am amazed. I go away for a few hours or what seems like a few hours and the scenario is changing. I really cannot conceive how looking at those photos, and yes I am talking about the photos you cannot see at least one foot bound with several rounds of orange cord and positioned above the other which cannot be seen so it might be, must be the two feet tied together, and yet it is being stated they were not. I expect next to read that she was not nude, but wearing some type of very tight fitting skin colored body suit, and again I go all the way back perhaps four or five threads ago when I questioned that all of this was done by her or to her in the dark of night. I think I need to go and lie back down and think about this some more.

Sorry for my interruption, and sorry also for my tone.

Evan's Mom
08-22-2011, 04:03 PM
Non related case.........but interesting results.......http://blog.al.com/breaking/2011/02/huntsville_womans_death_ruled.html

woman's death was initially invetigated as possible homicide, but once forensic results were completed-----ruled suicide.

AND LE did NOT release another other information or why they ruled 'suicide'......

??????

Do you think they will keep all information sealed in RN's case if they rule 'suicide'????


I doubt we'll see much of anything unless it is decided by LE that she was murdered.
If RN's death is ruled a suicide, then it will be her family's private tragedy and we have no right to know all of the details.

Do I want to know the details? Of course, I'm just as curious as the next person.
Are the details my business just because I'm curious? Absolutely not.

time
08-22-2011, 04:21 PM
I found this regarding autopsy's in california

State and local jurisdictions set the laws regulating the release of documents related to an individual's death. Death certificates are considered public records and are usually easy to obtain. The availability of autopsy reports, however, varies with the jurisdiction and the circumstances. In California, for example, anyone may order an autopsy report from a county coroner. If the autopsy is performed privately, however, or performed in a jurisdiction that does not regard a coroner's autopsy as a public document, you may have difficulty obtaining the report.

Read more: How to Obtain Death Records & Autopsy Reports | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_5858232_obtain-death-records-autopsy-reports.html#ixzz1VmnO2As0

This is what SDCO says regarding autopsy reports.

When will the Medical Examiner investigative, toxicology and autopsy reports be ready and how do I obtain copies?
Copies of the autopsy, investigative and toxicology reports will usually be available a few weeks after the cause of death is determined and a death certificate is filed. If you desire these reports, please telephone or write or e-mail this office with your request.


How much does it cost for a copy of a report?
Unsigned copies of reports can be provided via e-mail at no charge. Hard copies of reports are provided at a rate of $1.60 per page, plus the cost of postage. There is no charge for the first copy provided to the legal next-of-kin.

Medical Examiner Reports
http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/me/copies.html

In cases where the cause and manner of death are not determined at the time of the autopsy (in other words, pending further investigation), copies of the autopsy, investigative and toxicology reports will usually be available a few weeks after the cause of death is determined and a death certificate is filed. This can be as long as 90 days after the death, but it is usually sooner.

In cases where the cause and manner of death are certified at the time of the autopsy, the autopsy, investigative, and toxicology reports can take several weeks to complete (generally between 4 and 8 weeks, but it may take longer).

Reports are released only after all the reports (autopsy, investigative, and toxicology) and the death certificate have been completed. We do not prepare preliminary reports.

If you desire these reports, please write (http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/me/docs/requestforreports.pdf), email (recordsmx@sdcounty.ca.gov (recordsmx@sdcounty.ca.gov?subject=Records%20Inqui ry%20%28Do%20not%20alter%20the%20subject%29)), or telephone this office with your request. If emailing your request, please provide your relationship to the decedent, your return address (if requesting hard copies), and your phone number in case we have questions.

Unsigned copies of reports can be provided via e-mail at no charge. Hard (signed) copies of reports are provided at a rate of $1.60 per page, plus the cost of postage. There is no charge for the first copy provided to the legal next-of-kin. Full description of Fees (http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/me/fees.html).

If when you receive the reports you have questions, please call our office at (858) 694-2895.

time
08-22-2011, 04:35 PM
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:J6toQ9SQucQJ:www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/0714.pdf+rebecca+nalepa&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgif5nHrgOu6LOnOUBMEFfNqoPXZYbMAIdoiJ4o mFu99RxZpACRiu9SffpuiVmbDZa-ZwYRkgwg8k3yVt-q9CmIjXZn7vDtCU9ohR_KnIO_xkFfDDLHuCwgdsqV9KwQKvGe0 bFS&sig=AHIEtbQxLDfEr1iUGwzfnUd97k8vtgk0uA

7.14.2011 Update


This is an update on the death investigation that began on Wednesday, July 13, 2011 at 1043 Ocean Boulevard in the City of Coronado. The victim has been identified as 32 year old Rebecca Nalepa (also known as Rebecca Zahau). Nalepa was staying at the residence with her boyfriend identified as Dr. Jonah Shacknai. On July 13, 2011 The Coronado Police were investigating a suspicious death at 1043 Ocean Boulevard in the City of Coronado. At approximately 0648 hours, Units from the Coronado Police Department went to 1043 Ocean Boulevard in response to a 911 call. The reporting party, later identified as Adam Shacknai told responding Officers he found Nalepa with a rope around her neck and hanging from a balcony off the main house. When the Coronado Units arrived at the scene, they located a female adult on the property who appeared to be deceased. The victim’s hands and feet were bound and she was completely nude. The responding Officers provided medical aid until the Coronado Fire Department arrived on scene a few moments later and determined the victim to be deceased. The condition of the victim and the scene showed suspicious circumstances that initiated the response from Coronado Police Department Investigators and in turn, the Sheriff’s Homicide Detail along with Investigators from the California Department of Justice and the San Diego County Medical Examiner’s Office. The Sheriff’s Department is conducting this investigation in partnership with the Coronado Police Department. An autopsy is being conducted this morning by the San Diego County Medical Examiner’s Office. The Sheriff’s Crime Lab is processing numerous items of evidence and Investigators are questioning several witnesses as well as following other leads. Because of the unique and bizarre circumstances of this incident, it has yet to be determined if this will become a criminal matter or a death investigation.

Pach
08-22-2011, 07:05 PM
how common ? or how rare? is it for newspaper reporters(including "reputable" reporters) in the california/western states region to be "paid" to publish "PR" or "slanted" news on a certain event ? is there a history for such practice ever in the united states ?

I do know that this is common practice in some other countries.

as for jun lazo, I could only find lots of sites for lasso:
http://www.juggling.org/books/lasso/

what makes her death more unfortunate is that her relatives seem to be all based out of state(california) so its presumably harder for them logistically speaking, to keep the flame alive or the campaign to find the culprits or cause.

scorekeeper
08-22-2011, 07:44 PM
A jump off time's above post.....

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/

From July 14, 2011


Because of the unique and
bizarre circumstances of this incident, it has yet to be determined if this will become a criminal matter or a death investigation

If you look at the web site, its title is:

CORONADO DEATH INVESTIGATION

Does this mean they have moved to a death investigation?????????

Or just a play on words....

defense101
08-22-2011, 08:09 PM
A jump off time's above post.....

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/

From July 14, 2011


Because of the unique and
bizarre circumstances of this incident, it has yet to be determined if this will become a criminal matter or a death investigation

If you look at the web site, its title is:

CORONADO DEATH INVESTIGATION

Does this mean they have moved to a death investigation?????????

Or just a play on words.... I think its a play on words, they can't say suicide or murder investigation, so they go with death investigation imo. I've just been reading some articles and websites on media slant and the reasons behind it. One of articles I read explained how to read the article. The articles that state in the headline that it has been determined to be a suicide I bet received a lot of visits, here is part of what it said, I think it says quite a bit about how that article was written, very interesting...

Determine if the news article states its sources and attributes its information correctly. The Reuters Handbook of Journalism details the journalist's duty to report all information sources to the reader. The story cannot make a generalization or provide information without any way to back it up. Sources, too, must be balanced.

Read more: How to Critically Analyze Newspaper Articles | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_6305555_critically-analyze-newspaper-articles.html#ixzz1Vo20fFMJ

oceanblueeyes
08-22-2011, 08:13 PM
A jump off time's above post.....

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/

From July 14, 2011


Because of the unique and
bizarre circumstances of this incident, it has yet to be determined if this will become a criminal matter or a death investigation

If you look at the web site, its title is:

CORONADO DEATH INVESTIGATION

Does this mean they have moved to a death investigation?????????

Or just a play on words....


It has been a death investigation all along. The death investigation is done by the homicide division in case it becomes a homicide instead of a suicide.

IMO

oceanblueeyes
08-22-2011, 08:20 PM
I think its a play on words, they can't say suicide or murder investigation, so they go with death investigation imo. I've just been reading some articles and websites on media slant and the reasons behind it. One of articles I read explained how to read the article. The articles that state in the headline that it has been determined to be a suicide I bet received a lot of visits, here is part of what it said, I think it says quite a bit about how that article was written, very interesting...

Determine if the news article states its sources and attributes its information correctly. The Reuters Handbook of Journalism details the journalist's duty to report all information sources to the reader. The story cannot make a generalization or provide information without any way to back it up. Sources, too, must be balanced.

Read more: How to Critically Analyze Newspaper Articles | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_6305555_critically-analyze-newspaper-articles.html#ixzz1Vo20fFMJ


It actually is a death investigation, defense.

Unless a death is determined at the time of autopsy it calls for a death investigation.

For example: When Michael Jackson died it was a death investigation and was later determined to be a homicide rather than an accidental overdose or natural causes etc.

The same thing happened in the Lana Clarkson case. It took the ME over 7 months to determine her death was a homicide instead of a suicide.

The same thing in the Celina Cass case.

IMO

Quester
08-22-2011, 08:26 PM
8/22 FOX: Sources call Coronado mansion death a suicide

... is a suicide ...

... took her own life ...

... investigating [RN]'s background, including possible family or childhood trauma, ...

... could not give official confirmation that [RN] took her own life ...

... "no one is looking at it as a homicide."

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-sources-call-zahau-death-a-suicide-20110822,0,743947.story

defense101
08-22-2011, 08:39 PM
8/22 FOX: Sources call Coronado mansion death a suicide

... is a suicide ...

... took her own life ...

... investigating [RN]'s background, including possible family or childhood trauma, ...

... could not give official confirmation that [RN] took her own life ...

... "no one is looking at it as a homicide."

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-sources-call-zahau-death-a-suicide-20110822,0,743947.story

That is sad :confused:

oceanblueeyes
08-22-2011, 08:45 PM
The nature of modern death investigation includes social issues that extend beyond the crimescene and often impact everyone who is involved with the death. Dr. Randy Hanzlick stated that death investigations carry broad societal importance for criminal justice and public health.

The investigations provide evidence to convict the guilty and exonerate the innocent. Death investigation has an impact on judicial decisions involving incarceration and financial and professional status. Death investigations aid civil litigation as well, states Hanzlick. (2003) Athorough death investigation can uncover unsafe conditions that potentially could save the livesA Medieval Coroner tests guilt through ordeal by fireSource: Britannia


Historyhttp://www.britannia.com/history/articles/coroner5.html

scorekeeper
08-22-2011, 08:50 PM
8/22 FOX: Sources call Coronado mansion death a suicide

... is a suicide ...

... took her own life ...

... investigating [RN]'s background, including possible family or childhood trauma, ...

... could not give official confirmation that [RN] took her own life ...

... "no one is looking at it as a homicide."

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-sources-call-zahau-death-a-suicide-20110822,0,743947.story

Also from same article......The San Diego Sheriff's Department is investigating Zahau's background, including possible family or childhood trauma, which could give insight into why the tragedy happened.

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-sources-call-zahau-death-a-suicide-20110822,0,743947.story

BBM

so they are saying some possible family or childhood trauma caused this tragedy to RN.........not that she was feeling guilty of Maxie's accident.

Had she possibly considered suicide before?
Did she have a history of depression?

Why doesn't LE come out and say........it.......

Quester
08-22-2011, 08:56 PM
I think they are exploring whether or not there was any previous trauma and, if so, whether or not it contributed to a possible suicide.

ETA: I agree Score, wish they would just come out and say officially whatever they need to say.

defense101
08-22-2011, 09:11 PM
I'm still having a hard time believing it...I don't know what else to say. Why wait this long?

Quester
08-22-2011, 09:12 PM
8/22 FOX Phoenix: Sources Allege Millionaire's Girlfriend Committed Suicide

... the death was most likely self-inflicted.

... evidence doesn't appear to be pointing toward murder.

... detectives are "still waiting on the results of all forensic tests."

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/investigative/sources-allege-millionaire%27s-girlfriend-committed-suicide

4Jacy
08-22-2011, 09:13 PM
8/22 fox: sources call coronado mansion death a suicide

... Is a suicide ...

... Took her own life ...

... Investigating [rn]'s background, including possible family or childhood trauma, ...

... Could not give official confirmation that [rn] took her own life ...

... "no one is looking at it as a homicide."

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-sources-call-zahau-death-a-suicide-20110822,0,743947.story

bbm

i am!

Lawgirl
08-22-2011, 09:15 PM
I think they are exploring whether or not there was any previous trauma and, it so, whether or not it contributed to a possible suicide.

ETA: I agree Score, wish they would just come out and say officially whatever they need to say.


I wonder if RN's family is satisfied with the answers they get from the investigation. I wonder if her sister still disagrees, and if so what will she do about it? I understand her husband is in law enforcement, a decorated officer who can help shed more light on this. I don't know if the fact that he's in law enforcement helps that situation, or would stop her from demanding an answer that will ultimately satisfy her. At the same time, I can understand how the families of those who commit suiciden often times don't get the answers they need...

I do know that if it was my sibling, I would be on every news channel, every media outlet imaginable, I would write to whomever I would need to write -- but what I would not do is stay idle and do nothing if I felt an injustice has been done. In fact, it would be my life's mission hereonafter to keep her memory alive.

I fail to see how in heaven's name does her past have to do with the fact that she was found deceased in a brutal fashion when she had no depression issues that are documented, no history of mental issues. At this point, it just feels like an attempt to fabricate lies.

Carioca
08-22-2011, 09:16 PM
It is total CONJECTURE that RZ felt extreme guilt, thus a motive to commit suicide. AS was the only one to see her hanging, therefore it should be referred to as an ALLEGED hanging. It is sickening how the media is spinning this tragic story. If indeed RZ was compelled to take her own life, where on earth would she come up with this modus operandi: hands bound behind her back, feet bound, nude with a noose around her neck? I beg for someone to find a suicide case that fits ALL these criteria.

scorekeeper
08-22-2011, 09:17 PM
I guess we haven't been told much about RN's history. Yes, we know she was working a year or so before she met AS; she has spent the last 2-3 years with AS; she lived in New York and then AZ with NN; she has been in the US for about 10 years: she is from Burma; comes from a big family.

But we know nothing about her struggles, fears, nightmares or any horror she has been put through......perhaps Maxie's death was the "last straw".....

If LE still have 15 staff working on her case, than all we can hope for is a very thorough investigation.....

Based on what we know (from pictures/news articles), there must be a whole lot more to her story......

Lawgirl
08-22-2011, 09:25 PM
[QUOTE=scorekeeper;7056108]I guess we haven't been told much about RN's history. Yes, we know she was working a year or so before she met AS; she has spent the last 2-3 years with AS; she lived in New York and then AZ with NN; she has been in the US for about 10 years: she is from Burma; comes from a big family.

But we know nothing about her struggles, fears, nightmares or any horror she has been put through......perhaps Maxie's death was the "last straw".....If LE still have 15 staff working on her case, than all we can hope for is a very thorough investigation.....

Based on what we know (from pictures/news articles), there must be a whole lot more to her story......[/QUOTE

Except that her family viewed her as a role model, a source of light and inspiration to others, filled with positive things, and filled with life. This would be really contradictory to how her family viewed her and they should know her best.

defense101
08-22-2011, 09:37 PM
As well her sister who she obviously spoke to, being on the phone with and saying she was fine, stating that there is no way did her sister commit suicide... who would know best.

oceanblueeyes
08-22-2011, 09:45 PM
As well her sister who she obviously spoke to, being on the phone with and saying she was fine, stating that there is no way did her sister commit suicide... who would know best.

Unfortunately those closest to the person often does not know what is in their minds. If they knew they would have tried to prevent it.

IMO

scorekeeper
08-22-2011, 10:00 PM
Unfortunately those closest to the person often does not know what is in their minds. If they knew they would have tried to prevent it.

IMO

But I still can't grasp why go through all the steps if this was a suicide? Why use the orange construction extension cord......she appeared to have scarfs, why not use them on her hands and feet....why naked....why outside...why cause 'shame' to her loved ones....I still can't buy it....my heart keeps saying she was murdered.....

defense101
08-22-2011, 10:02 PM
I have a sister that is suicidal, she is on meds but we all know and if it were to happen we know there is nothing we could have done to prevent it. She is 56 and lives with it everyday, but even though, we all know.

arielilane
08-22-2011, 10:05 PM
I doubt we'll see much of anything unless it is decided by LE that she was murdered.
If RN's death is ruled a suicide, then it will be her family's private tragedy and we have no right to know all of the details.

Do I want to know the details? Of course, I'm just as curious as the next person.
Are the details my business just because I'm curious? Absolutely not.
If the outcome is determined to be suicide, no information will ever be release to the public. We will receive zero information. It's a private matter.

arielilane
08-22-2011, 10:08 PM
I have a sister that is suicidal, she is on meds but we all know and if it were to happen we know there is nothing we could have done to prevent it. She is 56 and lives with it everyday, but even though, we all know.
I'm so sorry to hear this about your sister, defense. I will keep her in my thoughts and I'm sending her well wishes. I hope that she can stay well. ((Hugs)) ariel

coastal
08-22-2011, 10:16 PM
It is total CONJECTURE that RZ felt extreme guilt, thus a motive to commit suicide. AS was the only one to see her hanging, therefore it should be referred to as an ALLEGED hanging. It is sickening how the media is spinning this tragic story. If indeed RZ was compelled to take her own life, where on earth would she come up with this modus operandi: hands bound behind her back, feet bound, nude with a noose around her neck? I beg for someone to find a suicide case that fits ALL these criteria.
Welcome to Websleuths, Carioca!

defense101
08-22-2011, 10:20 PM
But I still can't grasp why go through all the steps if this was a suicide? Why use the orange construction extension cord......she appeared to have scarfs, why not use them on her hands and feet....why naked....why outside...why cause 'shame' to her loved ones....I still can't buy it....my heart keeps saying she was murdered..... and why the removal of all the evidence from the house? If is was a suicide that took place outside why the carpet, the painting, the bags of evidence? I'm having a hard time with this one.:maddening:

Quester
08-22-2011, 10:23 PM
In the comments section at the link, ilikem** has a very strong opinion about this case.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/investigative/sources-allege-millionaire%27s-girlfriend-committed-suicide

defense101
08-22-2011, 10:30 PM
I don't get the networks where I am, do any of the abc, cbs, nbc, or fox have this same opinion going on on the tv?

Soulmagent
08-22-2011, 10:35 PM
It is total CONJECTURE that RZ felt extreme guilt, thus a motive to commit suicide. AS was the only one to see her hanging, therefore it should be referred to as an ALLEGED hanging. It is sickening how the media is spinning this tragic story. If indeed RZ was compelled to take her own life, where on earth would she come up with this modus operandi: hands bound behind her back, feet bound, nude with a noose around her neck? I beg for someone to find a suicide case that fits ALL these criteria.

I dont know if this case mets ALL of the criteria. It comes really close in making one very confused .

This death was also ruled to be a suicide ,stunning alot of people.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/26/national/main5343131.shtml?tag=untagged

Soulmagent
08-22-2011, 10:43 PM
In the comments section at the link, ilikem** has a very strong opinion about this case.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/investigative/sources-allege-millionaire%27s-girlfriend-committed-suicide

Yeah but in all groups of people you have individuals who are able to shake the confines of such stigma's such as a classification of what a certain group of people may or may not ever do.

In other words stereo typing this group of women does not make it a true stereo type.

scorekeeper
08-22-2011, 10:48 PM
I dont know if this case mets ALL of the criteria. It comes really close in making one very confused .

This death was also ruled to be a suicide ,stunning alot of people.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/26/national/main5343131.shtml?tag=untagged

Thanks. This article gives a little more detail as to why......life insurance

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/US/us-census-worker-bill-sparkman-committed-suicide/story?id=9167408

sdcali
08-22-2011, 11:14 PM
IMO.
I see no reason for LE to set up a special website and state specifically that they will post a notice when they are going to announce their findings to only have "sources close to the investigation" leak information. Just announce it.

Two things come to mind. 1) they are just going to keep leaking info that it is probably a suicide, looks like a suicide, probably is a suicide, until everyone just absorbs that and stops asking.

Or 2) they have something else going on entirely.

The leaks are purposeful. There is a reason.

I still go back to this. If what is being leaked is fact, then why not just make the public announcement. Why are they waiting. If it is not fact and not authorized, then why is the Sheriff's department not up in arms that "sources" are speaking to the press?

This is not adding up. IMO

SunnieRN
08-22-2011, 11:25 PM
I just got home from vacation and have tried to catch up. I find it hard to believe that after this long, suicide stories are starting. I think I will bide my time and wait for an official word from SD LE.

If this is ruled a suicide, I think it should join the ranks of John F. Kennedy, his son John Jr., as well as many others. If there was a note on the mirror, if it is a mirror, that would be interesting, but I believe it would have made this a more open/shut case.

sdcali
08-22-2011, 11:29 PM
and why the removal of all the evidence from the house? If is was a suicide that took place outside why the carpet, the painting, the bags of evidence? I'm having a hard time with this one.:maddening:

yes, I have those same questions. what did they find? what were they looking for?

Carpe Pacem
08-23-2011, 02:36 AM
It's nearly impossible for me to imagine a grief-stricken woman taking her own life in such a manner, a manner that could be interpreted as totally unfeeling toward the man she loved, who was in the process of losing his beloved little boy.

If it was indeed a suicide, what could explain the thought processes/intention behind it?

So much tragedy in the space of a few days...

CalElliot
08-23-2011, 03:21 AM
I would hesitate to characterize any of the recent news stories as "leaks," whatever the verbiage. More like news sites quoting what started out as a single blog site quoting speculation by a source thinly if at all qualified to comment on the case that, in a news-starved environment, turns into third-hand "reporting." Of course, a single planted blog postulating "suicide" can generate a zillion stories on the web repeating that word in relation to the victim...including the discussion of those "news" stories here. Fascinating to watch the thing spread like a virus.

Bonepile
08-23-2011, 05:12 AM
I do not know how to read the silence ... I do not know how to read the "leaks" ... I do not know how to read this case .. I do know that whatever the outcome or the official statements we will be here discussing and analyzing and commenting on it for many more weeks to come. And for me I cannot wait for those opportunities to continue.

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 09:29 AM
I would hesitate to characterize any of the recent news stories as "leaks," whatever the verbiage. More like news sites quoting what started out as a single blog site quoting speculation by a source thinly if at all qualified to comment on the case that, in a news-starved environment, turns into third-hand "reporting." Of course, a single planted blog postulating "suicide" can generate a zillion stories on the web repeating that word in relation to the victim...including the discussion of those "news" stories here. Fascinating to watch the thing spread like a virus.

BBM

:goodpost::tyou:

So true. Everyone is 'starved' for information in this case. A zillion stories is what happened........As far as any of us can tell, the suicide outcome DID NOT come from LE. As previously posted by some, why start a web site to only leak information. No information was leaked during the first month.

Is someone feeling the 'heat'; are the questions by LE getting harder to answer; is someone feeling cornered?

What stops the PR firm from 'leaking' information and keeping the 'company' in good standing, along with its leader? Remember this 'leak' comes after the company share holders' meeting.......

Let's hope those 15 LE members are getting ready to say RN was murdered!!
Let's hope the prosecutor's office has enough evidence to prosecute!!

As I previously stated....why use orange construction electrical cord (manly) with a lovely blue scarf.......it's like wearing a plaid blouse with a flowered skirt.....a no-no for RN

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 09:32 AM
It is total CONJECTURE that RZ felt extreme guilt, thus a motive to commit suicide. AS was the only one to see her hanging, therefore it should be referred to as an ALLEGED hanging. It is sickening how the media is spinning this tragic story. If indeed RZ was compelled to take her own life, where on earth would she come up with this modus operandi: hands bound behind her back, feet bound, nude with a noose around her neck? I beg for someone to find a suicide case that fits ALL these criteria.

Sorry, this is late BUT

:fireworks2::greetings::welcome::wagon:

elementry
08-23-2011, 09:59 AM
It is total CONJECTURE that RZ felt extreme guilt, thus a motive to commit suicide. AS was the only one to see her hanging, therefore it should be referred to as an ALLEGED hanging. It is sickening how the media is spinning this tragic story. If indeed RZ was compelled to take her own life, where on earth would she come up with this modus operandi: hands bound behind her back, feet bound, nude with a noose around her neck? I beg for someone to find a suicide case that fits ALL these criteria.

So she felt very guilty about what happened to the son of her lover......but not enough to actually pen an explanatory or apologetic letter in regard to the suicide/self-homicide she was committing on her mate's property, thus making the calamity even worse. Possible in some kind of shame spiral I guess.....

This latest round of articles floating the suicide scenario should be titled,"Sitrick Company Sources Allege Suicide, (Media Complies)".

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 10:01 AM
Article - Coronado mansion death: The suicide scenario

Posted 8/19 and updated 8/21

But is that really possible? Local investigators admit they have never encountered a female suicide victim, found hanging, naked and bound. But the suicide scenario remains a possibility.

"It is unusual to have somebody who is bound at the feet, and to have their hands secured behind their back, and of course being unclothed," Sheriff's homicide Sgt. Roy Frank told News 8 last month.Even so, "there are documentations of incidents throughout the country where people have secured their feet and hands to commit suicide," said Sgt. Frank.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15294873/coronado-mansion-death-the-suicide-scenario

BBM

Is this the article that started the 'suicide' conclusion?

They are quoting what LE said over a month ago.........they have no new quotes from LE

The reporter couldn't even find a suicide where a woman bound both hands and feet and naked and outside.......

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 10:13 AM
Information that didn’t come from this website or the Sheriff’s Homicide and
Public Affairs Division, or the Coronado Police Department is not credible

August 18, 2011 http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/0818.pdf

BBM

So, the articles about 'suicide' are/is not credible........

believe09
08-23-2011, 10:17 AM
Is Sgt Roy Frank qualified to make this statement? Is he speaking for the investigation? So this is a direct statement from a member of law enforcement essentially confirming that the suicide theory was at that time being investigated.

Which makes me a little confused about your post CalElliot:

I would hesitate to characterize any of the recent news stories as "leaks," whatever the verbiage. More like news sites quoting what started out as a single blog site quoting speculation by a source thinly if at all qualified to comment on the case that, in a news-starved environment, turns into third-hand "reporting." Of course, a single planted blog postulating "suicide" can generate a zillion stories on the web repeating that word in relation to the victim...including the discussion of those "news" stories here. Fascinating to watch the thing spread like a virus.

Quester
08-23-2011, 10:20 AM
IF suicide, this was an unbelievably selfish act done at an unbelievably selfish time (while parents were holding vigil over their brain-dead son whose body was being keep alive while waiting to donate organs).

Hard to imagine/believe that RN would want to add to the profound grief that JS was already experiencing.

believe09
08-23-2011, 10:22 AM
Most people who are going to kill themselves arent all that concerned about their timing or ultimately about the ones they leave behind I think. It is a pretty solitary act that has a lot of collateral damage of course.

believe09
08-23-2011, 10:26 AM
Has this article been posted and reviewed yet?

http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240

"Naked suicide can be associated with any method of suicide; however, anecdotal evidence indicates that it occurs more frequently with hanging, overdose, or drowning, but to a lesser extent in jumping deaths."

4Jacy
08-23-2011, 10:27 AM
[QUOTE=Carpe Pacem;7056865]It's nearly impossible for me to imagine a grief-stricken woman taking her own life in such a manner, a manner that could be interpreted as totally unfeeling toward the man she loved, who was in the process of losing his beloved little boy.

If it was indeed a suicide, what could explain the thought processes/intention behind it?


IF it was a suicide, which it certainly was not in my opinion, there is NO WAY she would have done it nude and outside if only for respect for Maxie.

This case is embarrassing for the police and for the public. The police are afraid of stepping on wealthy and powerful toes and the public thinks this is pathetic. However, the situation won't be corrected, it will just fade away into the background, always to remain a mystery. AGAIN!

Aren't we, the people, tired of being hoodwinked. Hoping I'm wrong, but doubting it....

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 10:34 AM
Is Sgt Roy Frank qualified to make this statement? Is he speaking for the investigation? So this is a direct statement from a member of law enforcement essentially confirming that the suicide theory was at that time being investigated.

Which makes me a little confused about your post CalElliot:

Because of the unique and
bizarre circumstances of this incident, it has yet to be determined if this will become a criminal matter or a death investigation

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/0714.pdf - from july 14

SDCS statement - BBM

No determination regarding suicide/homicide..........awaiting forensics.....

oceanblueeyes
08-23-2011, 10:53 AM
But I still can't grasp why go through all the steps if this was a suicide? Why use the orange construction extension cord......she appeared to have scarfs, why not use them on her hands and feet....why naked....why outside...why cause 'shame' to her loved ones....I still can't buy it....my heart keeps saying she was murdered.....

I can truly understand that, scorekeeper. I believe the reason it is hard to understand is we really don't have the mind set of someone who contemplates and carries out suicide. It is logical that we question such things but imo you cant use logic and commonsense and apply it to an irrational act.

The same questions have gone through the minds my husband's family for many years when his nephew took his own life. Why did he come to the very place of the people who loved and supported him more than anyone and let his loving and devoted grandparents see him like that when he killed himself with a shotgun? Why would he do this to the people he loved more than anyone? Yet after all these years we still don't know why.

IMO

believe09
08-23-2011, 10:54 AM
Because of the unique and
bizarre circumstances of this incident, it has yet to be determined if this will become a criminal matter or a death investigation

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/0714.pdf - from july 14

SDCS statement - BBM

No determination regarding suicide/homicide..........awaiting forensics.....

Thank you...I guess my point was that the rumor was not necessarily generated by a single blog. LE was investigating a possible suicide as well.

oceanblueeyes
08-23-2011, 10:59 AM
Most people who are going to kill themselves aren't all that concerned about their timing or ultimately about the ones they leave behind I think. It is a pretty solitary act that has a lot of collateral damage of course.

I believe you are 100% correct.

They do not think of the pain it will leave their loved ones.

Imo, they have one motivation and that is to relieve the pain they feel inside that they no longer can endure.

Some may even think their loved ones would be better off without them.

IMO

sdcali
08-23-2011, 11:10 AM
Information that didn’t come from this website or the Sheriff’s Homicide and
Public Affairs Division, or the Coronado Police Department is not credible

August 18, 2011 http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/0818.pdf

BBM

So, the articles about 'suicide' are/is not credible........

Thanks, score! That is what my gut is saying, too.

arielilane
08-23-2011, 11:38 AM
Sources call Coronado mansion death a suicide (http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-sources-call-zahau-death-a-suicide-20110822,0,743947.story)

CORONADO, Calif. -- The woman found hanging naked from a balcony inside the Spreckels Mansion in Coronado is a suicide, according to law enforcement sources with knowledge of the investigation
http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/

time
08-23-2011, 11:39 AM
Wow... I search on Google this morning and see this suicide meme has propagated like some creepy virus. Shame on the journalists and news outlets as they are only researching by reading someone else's story. SHAME SHAME SHAME

Evan's Mom
08-23-2011, 11:45 AM
I can truly understand that, scorekeeper. I believe the reason it is hard to understand is we really don't have the mind set of someone who contemplates and carries out suicide. It is logical that we question such things but imo you cant use logic and commonsense and apply it to an irrational act.

The same questions have gone through the minds my husband's family for many years when his nephew took his own life. Why did he come to the very place of the people who loved and supported him more than anyone and let his loving and devoted grandparents see him like that when he killed himself with a shotgun? Why would he do this to the people he loved more than anyone? Yet after all these years we still don't know why.

IMO

That is so sad!
I know it sounds odd, but I bet he found comfort in doing it where those he'd loved would find him.

arielilane
08-23-2011, 11:46 AM
Sources call Coronado mansion death a suicide (http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-sources-call-zahau-death-a-suicide-20110822,0,743947.story)

CORONADO, Calif. -- The woman found hanging naked from a balcony inside the Spreckels Mansion in Coronado is a suicide, according to law enforcement sources with knowledge of the investigation
http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/

The article further states the following:
One law enforcement source said Monday "no one is looking at it as a homicide."

elementry
08-23-2011, 12:31 PM
The article further states the following:
One law enforcement source said Monday "no one is looking at it as a homicide."

The articles use the phrase, when referring to the unnamed source's relating of supposed LE opinion, that they are "reasonably certain". Doesn't sound like they're 100% convinced. Is "reasonably certain" good enough in dismissing a potential murder scenario? Perhaps if they've got no contrary evidence. So what has LE been doing for 5 weeks but dismissing that contrary evidence piece by piece?

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 12:32 PM
Ariel...

I don't like to re-post myself, but it's easier than retyping...

The 'suicide' reports are not credible according to the SDCS web site.

They have not made an official determination and/or statement yet.

score

Article - Coronado mansion death: The suicide scenario

Posted 8/19 and updated 8/21

But is that really possible? Local investigators admit they have never encountered a female suicide victim, found hanging, naked and bound. But the suicide scenario remains a possibility.

"It is unusual to have somebody who is bound at the feet, and to have their hands secured behind their back, and of course being unclothed," Sheriff's homicide Sgt. Roy Frank told News 8 last month.Even so, "there are documentations of incidents throughout the country where people have secured their feet and hands to commit suicide," said Sgt. Frank.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15294873/coronado-mansion-death-the-suicide-scenario

BBM

Is this the article that started the 'suicide' conclusion?

They are quoting what LE said over a month ago.........they have no new quotes from LE

The reporter couldn't even find a suicide where a woman bound both hands and feet and naked and outside.......

Information that didn’t come from this website or the Sheriff’s Homicide and
Public Affairs Division, or the Coronado Police Department is not credible

August 18, 2011 http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/0818.pdf

BBM

So, the articles about 'suicide' are/is not credible........

Because of the unique and
bizarre circumstances of this incident, it has yet to be determined if this will become a criminal matter or a death investigation

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/0714.pdf - from july 14

SDCS statement - BBM

No determination regarding suicide/homicide..........awaiting forensics.....

SunnieRN
08-23-2011, 01:06 PM
We have all seen the power of the press, to change/influence opinions, however, I think by playing this case out in silence, the SD PD has shown that media will create stories, when there is not official information to report.

This says a lot about our society as a whole and what influences it in general. If there is a determination of murder, by LE, will a jury pool that has read, repeatedly, that this death is the result of suicide, be able to overcome that belief? Will they be able to be objective?

This is very interesting, as there are so many cases swayed by public opinion, based on reporting. I am very happy SD LE is playing this close to the cuff, until they can determine what truly happened. Can you imagine, if this was murder, what the guilty party is thinking right now? It is either jubilation or fear, based on forensic evidence they may know exists.

I imagine that Rebeccas family is yet to become vocal. They have a belief of what happened I am sure. It will also be interesting to see if JS ever truly speaks out about this, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 01:07 PM
The Sheriff's Department did not give official confirmation that investigators have determined Zahau took her own life, saying only that the investigation is not complete
http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-sources-call-zahau-death-a-suicide-20110822,0,743947.story

BBM
How do they get law enforcement sources saying 'suicide' when the Sheriff's Department is saying their investigation in "not complete". Isn't the sheriff's office in charge of the "death investigation" and the Coronado police looking into Maxie's accident?

Are they talking to the janitor??????

Quester
08-23-2011, 01:14 PM
[Disclaimer: The following is pure, simple and fantasy PR speculation!]

Apparent PR Firm logic :hypno::

IF it is unusual for a woman to commit suicide nude and out in the open;
AND RN is a woman;
BUT she sleeps in the nude and walks her dog outdoors;
THEN it would not be unusual for RN to commit suicide nude and hanging from an outside balcony.


Loose ends that the PR Firm has yet to wrap up :hypno::

* Dog to kennel: Did RN regularly check the dog into a kennel to be socialized, groomed, and taken to the vet? Were the needed shots California specific and not required in Arizona?

* Large painting: Did RN enjoy painting? Was the “large painting” taken as evidence one of RN’s disliked paintings that JS hung despite her wishes? Did RN deface it prior to committing suicide so that the embarrassing thing would be removed?

* Rug: While defacing the painting, did RN get paint on the rug?

* Blue Scarf: Did RN also enjoy painting silk scarves? Was the scarf found around her neck her favorite painted example that she used to cover her entire face to minimize the horror to the person finding her?

* Orange electrical cord: Did RN frequently do household repairs using power tools and orange electrical cords? (Of note: that broken three legged table; was it on her verbalized but not written list of repairs to do?)

* Rope and knot tying: From her early days in Burma, did RN enjoy learning how to tie different knots from a possible nautical relative? Did she subsequently earn knot tying awards as a teen?

* Magic: Did RN enjoy magical spectacles? Did she do card tricks for the kids and recreate Houdini stunts?

[Again: pure PR speculation/fantasy!]

:waiting:

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 01:29 PM
Has this article been posted and reviewed yet?

http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240

"Naked suicide can be associated with any method of suicide; however, anecdotal evidence indicates that it occurs more frequently with hanging, overdose, or drowning, but to a lesser extent in jumping deaths."

Thanks for the link to the article.......good read

From the article also,

Anger and vengeance can be expressed by completing suicide while naked, especially when it is intended to traumatize a survivor. The shock of discovering a naked suicide inflicts an indelible, traumatic memory that can haunt a survivor for a lifetime.12 The person who completes suicide while naked may intend to add insult to a suicide survivor's already devastating injury.

http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240

BBM

If, and I say this with a BIG IF, RN did commit suicide......what survivor did she want to have such a traumatic memory??? Was she expecting JS to find her? Do we know if JS ever even came to the mansion? Did they talk on the phone and he gave her a possible time he would be home?

Were the outside lights on? Remember someone said that if you looked out the master bedroom windows you could see the balcony?

Her family or ex never spoke of her as being vindictive or one "to rub salt into someone else's wounds"....

It's such drastic measures......if she was distraught over Maxie, why not leave a note and express her guilt, take some pills and get in the tub.....

time
08-23-2011, 01:33 PM
Found on Google maps, just a different view from the front left side of the house. You can see it looks like entry to the courtyard from that side. Not significant except Shacknai obviously has gardeners and perhaps the entrance, if there is one, by the garage is near that balcony or guest house? I'm disoriented

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/MyWN0PCBcUdAYMcb289Y6Q

oceanblueeyes
08-23-2011, 02:06 PM
Thanks for the link to the article.......good read

From the article also,

Anger and vengeance can be expressed by completing suicide while naked, especially when it is intended to traumatize a survivor. The shock of discovering a naked suicide inflicts an indelible, traumatic memory that can haunt a survivor for a lifetime.12 The person who completes suicide while naked may intend to add insult to a suicide survivor's already devastating injury.

http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240

BBM

If, and I say this with a BIG IF, RN did commit suicide......what survivor did she want to have such a traumatic memory??? Was she expecting JS to find her? Do we know if JS ever even came to the mansion? Did they talk on the phone and he gave her a possible time he would be home?

Were the outside lights on? Remember someone said that if you looked out the master bedroom windows you could see the balcony?

Her family or ex never spoke of her as being vindictive or one "to rub salt into someone else's wounds"....

It's such drastic measures......if she was distraught over Maxie, why not leave a note and express her guilt, take some pills and get in the tub.....

2/3 of those who commit suicides do not leave notes.

Maybe it was a spiritual thing?

Naked suicide suggests a variety of psychological themes. The shedding of clothes may symbolize a new beginning, a rebirth and cleansing, or a sloughing off of the world. In the biblical description of Christ's resurrection, his clothes, a symbol of an unregenerate world, were left behind as he ascended into heaven.

time
08-23-2011, 02:06 PM
Just for orientation purposes and it appears the balcony where Rebecca was found is nearest the entry into the courtyard by the garage.

CalElliot
08-23-2011, 02:17 PM
Scorekeeper: Re http://www.cbs8.com/story/15294873/coronado-mansion-death-the-suicide-scenario

Is this the article that started the 'suicide' conclusion?

NO, this news story and all the network news stories discussing the S-word were quoting two speculative examiner.com bloggers who have no journalistic credibility at all quoting and/or misquoting speculating old retired detective, which means not part of LE, not on the case.

CalElliot
08-23-2011, 02:19 PM
Believe09: Re your questiona "Is Sgt Roy Frank qualified to make this statement? Is he speaking for the investigation? So this is a direct statement from a member of law enforcement essentially confirming that the suicide theory was at that time being investigated."

What statement(s) are you referring to? Link please.

jstwondering
08-23-2011, 02:23 PM
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15294873/coronado-mansion-death-the-suicide-scenario

Is this the article that started the 'suicide' conclusion?

No, this news story and all the network news stories discussing the S-word were quoting two speculative examiner.com bloggers who have no journalistic credibility at all quoting and/or misquoting speculating old retired detective, which means not part of LE, not on the case.

Yes, I have to say that I'm shocked, because what you say appears to be right on the money. I understand where MSM would balk at having to name a source. I read All the Kings Men. But when MSM uses that legitimate tactic of not naming sources to excuse copying someone else's unnamed source as their own, well, IMO, that is shoddy journalism.

CalElliot
08-23-2011, 02:28 PM
Thank you...I guess my point was that the rumor was not necessarily generated by a single blog. LE was investigating a possible suicide as well.

Not a rumor generated by a single blog (indeed quite clear and obvious that LE investigating suicide option from day one). Rather, a recent spate of legitimate news organizations reporting on a "report/new article," the source of which were two posts by nonjournalist bloggers, about LE "confident" that it was suicide according to an unnamed source accompanied by quotes from a retired detective not on the case.

CalElliot
08-23-2011, 02:32 PM
IMO.


The leaks are purposeful. There is a reason.

IMO

I don't believe that LE has has leaked anything. I'm not keen on the silence and the "special" web page either (BTW, it's just a page in the SD sheriff's website, not a site built just for this investigation). But nothing so far substantiates that LE is the source of any recent developments of any kind.

CalElliot
08-23-2011, 02:36 PM
We have all seen the power of the press, to change/influence opinions, however, I think by playing this case out in silence, the SD PD has shown that media will create stories, when there is not official information to report.

This says a lot about our society as a whole and what influences it in general.

The situation is certainly a fascinating one when our society is no longer able to distinguish between blogger and reporter. Let the games begin.

defense101
08-23-2011, 02:39 PM
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15294873/coronado-mansion-death-the-suicide-scenario

Is this the article that started the 'suicide' conclusion?

No, this news story and all the network news stories discussing the S-word were quoting two speculative examiner.com bloggers who have no journalistic credibility at all quoting and/or misquoting speculating old retired detective, which means not part of LE, not on the case.:seeya:CalElliot, I looked at the examiner site and the only article I found was quoting the nbc article, is there a blog area I missed?

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 02:41 PM
Just for orientation purposes and it appears the balcony where Rebecca was found is nearest the entry into the courtyard by the garage.

I wonder when/how AS found RN. Could he see her if he came down the steps of the apartment over the garage? I think his view would have been blocked by the tree. Is there a side door to the house that he could have entered? Did he walk out into the courtyard to sit and drink his morning coffee?

sdcali
08-23-2011, 02:46 PM
I don't believe that LE has has leaked anything. I'm not keen on the silence and the "special" web page either (BTW, it's just a page in the SD sheriff's website, not a site built just for this investigation. But nothing so far substantiates that LE is the source of any recent developments of any kind.

I agree. I am wondering why LE is not then saying 'we did not say this' 'this is not true'.

BBM I should have said specific web page to the Sheriff's Department's website. I did know that it is not a site set up specifically for this case.

Or maybe they have, and I have missed it. Unfortunately, I have to work, eat and sleep...and that takes aways from my websleuthing time. :)

i.b.nora
08-23-2011, 02:47 PM
The retired detective, author, and self proclaimed expert on suicides, was 'interviewed' very early on in the case. Since he runs some kind of police museum, I have a feeling they told him to shut up. He did not seem to have any inside information nor any expert information from what I heard.

defense101
08-23-2011, 02:50 PM
I wonder when/how AS found RN. Could he see her if he came down the steps of the apartment over the garage? I think his view would have been blocked by the tree. Is there a side door to the house that he could have entered? Did he walk out into the courtyard to sit and drink his morning coffee? I wondered that but unfortunately I don't think we'll get that degree of information for awhile if at all. The rope/electrical cord direction still has me baffled as well.

Evan's Mom
08-23-2011, 02:51 PM
I wonder when/how AS found RN. Could he see her if he came down the steps of the apartment over the garage? I think his view would have been blocked by the tree. Is there a side door to the house that he could have entered? Did he walk out into the courtyard to sit and drink his morning coffee?

That's kind of how I imagined he came upon her.
Or maybe he was up early and going to the main house to get some breakfast, have some coffee and then going on to the hospital to support his brother?

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 02:54 PM
I wondered that but unfortunately I don't think we'll get that degree of information for awhile if at all. The rope/electrical cord direction still has me baffled as well.

the cord direction could come from her being carried from the direction of the garage.......


Where's Inobu???

defense101
08-23-2011, 02:57 PM
The retired detective, author, and self proclaimed expert on suicides, was 'interviewed' very early on in the case. Since he runs some kind of police museum, I have a feeling they told him to shut up. He did not seem to have any inside information nor any expert information from what I heard.
He is what imo I would call quite an expert on suicide not necessarily why it happens but how, and did work for the SDSD Homicide division for years, it is possible he still has connections to the department.

Quester
08-23-2011, 03:02 PM
I wonder when/how AS found RN. Could he see her if he came down the steps of the apartment over the garage? I think his view would have been blocked by the tree. Is there a side door to the house that he could have entered? Did he walk out into the courtyard to sit and drink his morning coffee?

Jumping off your post:

I don't remember the answer to the following:

Do we know where AS was staying? In the guest house behind the main house or in an apartment above the garage?

If he was staying in the guest house he probably couldn't have missed her.

defense101
08-23-2011, 03:05 PM
Jumping off your post:

I don't remember the answer to the following:

Do we know where AS was staying? In the guest house behind the main house or in an apartment above the garage?

If he was staying in the guest house he probably couldn't have missed her. The first reports were that he was in the guest house and that the caretakers cottage/apartment was rented out. That may have been the older couple who came back to collect personal items that was shown on video, maybe....

time
08-23-2011, 03:12 PM
I wonder when/how AS found RN. Could he see her if he came down the steps of the apartment over the garage? I think his view would have been blocked by the tree. Is there a side door to the house that he could have entered? Did he walk out into the courtyard to sit and drink his morning coffee?

Interesting questions. And, as far as we know he may not have stayed there all night or went out early and came back to find her. We also don't know how often he visited and stayed in the mansion. If he likes the water/ocean, I'd bet he was there a lot. Who could resist having a place to stay like that right on the ocean... it's like feet away from the front walk.

Also ... do I remember some article or LE saying there were guests staying in the mansion?

Looking at the pics... obvious that where Rebecca was hung was about as close to a getaway exit in and out of the property as you can get also (and right next to the garage).

Does anyone know exactly where DS's house was? At some point I also read that she didn't own that house, but JS did?

Quester
08-23-2011, 03:18 PM
Interesting questions. And, as far as we know he may not have stayed there all night or went out early and came back to find her. We also don't know how often he visited and stayed in the mansion. If he likes the water/ocean, I'd bet he was there a lot. Who could resist having a place to stay like that right on the ocean... it's like feet away from the front walk.

Also ... do I remember some article or LE saying there were guests staying in the mansion?

Looking at the pics... obvious that where Rebecca was hung was about as close to a getaway exit in and out of the property as you can get also (and right next to the garage).

Does anyone know exactly where DS's house was? At some point I also read that she didn't own that house, but JS did?

BBM - If reports I read were correct, her house is pinpointed on the following map:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=210011210325991828438.0004a820248c050ae46b 6&msa=0&ll=32.743392,-117.149963&spn=0.172395,0.295944

believe09
08-23-2011, 03:37 PM
Article - Coronado mansion death: The suicide scenario

Posted 8/19 and updated 8/21

But is that really possible? Local investigators admit they have never encountered a female suicide victim, found hanging, naked and bound. But the suicide scenario remains a possibility.

"It is unusual to have somebody who is bound at the feet, and to have their hands secured behind their back, and of course being unclothed," Sheriff's homicide Sgt. Roy Frank told News 8 last month.Even so, "there are documentations of incidents throughout the country where people have secured their feet and hands to commit suicide," said Sgt. Frank.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15294873/coronado-mansion-death-the-suicide-scenario

BBM

Is this the article that started the 'suicide' conclusion?

They are quoting what LE said over a month ago.........they have no new quotes from LE

The reporter couldn't even find a suicide where a woman bound both hands and feet and naked and outside.......

Here is the story and link, CalElliot.

believe09
08-23-2011, 03:49 PM
I would hesitate to characterize any of the recent news stories as "leaks," whatever the verbiage. More like news sites quoting what started out as a single blog site quoting speculation by a source thinly if at all qualified to comment on the case that, in a news-starved environment, turns into third-hand "reporting." Of course, a single planted blog postulating "suicide" can generate a zillion stories on the web repeating that word in relation to the victim...including the discussion of those "news" stories here. Fascinating to watch the thing spread like a virus.

Not a rumor generated by a single blog (indeed quite clear and obvious that LE investigating suicide option from day one). Rather, a recent spate of legitimate news organizations reporting on a "report/new article," the source of which were two posts by nonjournalist bloggers, about LE "confident" that it was suicide according to an unnamed source accompanied by quotes from a retired detective not on the case.

This morning, I was responding to the first post of yours which I bolded. I read this to mean that a single blog was responsible for the suicide theory.

I became confused as to how this would be the case whe I read scorekeeper's linked article that included Sgt Frank's words.

Your other post, which I quoted second here and includes another bolded statement, came after my initial question.

So if I am reading the second post correctly you are stating that LE was investigating suicide since day one, but the statements that leaks from inside the investigation confirm it are due to a blog written by someone outside of the investigation....do I have this correct now?

believe09
08-23-2011, 03:54 PM
Thanks for the link to the article.......good read

From the article also,

Anger and vengeance can be expressed by completing suicide while naked, especially when it is intended to traumatize a survivor. The shock of discovering a naked suicide inflicts an indelible, traumatic memory that can haunt a survivor for a lifetime.12 The person who completes suicide while naked may intend to add insult to a suicide survivor's already devastating injury.

http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240

BBM

If, and I say this with a BIG IF, RN did commit suicide......what survivor did she want to have such a traumatic memory??? Was she expecting JS to find her? Do we know if JS ever even came to the mansion? Did they talk on the phone and he gave her a possible time he would be home?

Were the outside lights on? Remember someone said that if you looked out the master bedroom windows you could see the balcony?

Her family or ex never spoke of her as being vindictive or one "to rub salt into someone else's wounds"....

It's such drastic measures......if she was distraught over Maxie, why not leave a note and express her guilt, take some pills and get in the tub.....

I am curious as to if she did leave some kind of communication that was not necessarily definitive.

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 04:04 PM
I am curious as to if she did leave some kind of communication that was not necessarily definitive.

hmmmm........LE removed either a large picture or mirror...

picture - could it have been of RN and JS and RN defaced/cut herself out of the picture?

mirror - could RN have written something like, 'I'm sorry, I loved you and Maxie'

got the imagination running wild:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

time
08-23-2011, 04:12 PM
BBM - If reports I read were correct, her house is pinpointed on the following map:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=210011210325991828438.0004a820248c050ae46b 6&msa=0&ll=32.743392,-117.149963&spn=0.172395,0.295944

Thank you. I went looking for an odd comment I read a while back:

The house that Dina lives in on G Avenue is owned by the "Jonah Shacknai Revocable Trust". That property was on the market back in 2009, and was scheduled to be autioned on July 11, 2009: the very same date two years prior to Max's accident. Might also explain why Dina rented a home in La Jolla during that period.

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/few-new-details-in-deaths-at-shacknai-mansion-in-coronado

Wow ... weird coincidence!

A LOT of interesting comments there BTW.

oceanblueeyes
08-23-2011, 04:14 PM
I am curious as to if she did leave some kind of communication that was not necessarily definitive.

Could be something as simple as taking a ring off that she always wore and placing it on a dresser, etc.

IMO

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 04:14 PM
I don't believe that LE has has leaked anything. I'm not keen on the silence and the "special" web page either (BTW, it's just a page in the SD sheriff's website, not a site built just for this investigation). But nothing so far substantiates that LE is the source of any recent developments of any kind.

Cal,

This is the article about the web site...

On Thursday, the Sheriff's department launched a new web site to help keep the public and members of the media updated on the Coronado mansion death investigation

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15294873/coronado-mansion-death-the-suicide-scenario

the article called it a a web site; but it is a page from the Sheriff's webpage..

it's one of those....tomato/tomatoe thingy.....

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 04:17 PM
Thank you. I went looking for an odd comment I read a while back:



http://coronado.patch.com/articles/few-new-details-in-deaths-at-shacknai-mansion-in-coronado

Wow ... weird coincidence!

A LOT of interesting comments there BTW.

And wasn't it rumored somewhere that she owed back rent on the house she rented.....but that is not here or there.......

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 04:31 PM
http://coronado.patch.com/articles/spreckels-mystery-tv-report-says-detectives-reasonably-confident-zahau-killed-herself

This article has some very interesting comments.....don't want to quote due to hearsay..

things that make you go hmmmmmmmm

http://www.saveoursheriff.com/blog:18

the above is a blog entry; mods delete if inappropriate

time
08-23-2011, 05:18 PM
And wasn't it rumored somewhere that she owed back rent on the house she rented.....but that is not here or there.......


The 10News I-Team obtained court records that detailed a delinquent payment on a La Jolla rental house involving Dina Shacknai. She rented the property for a month in 2009 for $32,500. It remains unclear why Dina Shacknai rented it when she and her then-husband owned their Coronado mansion. "I think every entrepreneur has a fantasy of how big a company will become and I think what has happened to me is not inconsistent with my fantasies," Jonah Shacknai said in a corporate video.

http://www.10news.com/news/28534601/detail.html

jstwondering
08-23-2011, 05:41 PM
http://www.10news.com/news/28534601/detail.html

Quote:
The 10News I-Team obtained court records that detailed a delinquent payment on a La Jolla rental house involving Dina Shacknai. She rented the property for a month in 2009 for $32,500. It remains unclear why Dina Shacknai rented it when she and her then-husband owned their Coronado mansion. "
snipped by me.

BBM IMO, this isn't very strange at all if they were having marital problems. He wanted to take his children on vacation to Coronado and didn't want DS there. She didn't want to be without MS for the summer. Hence, you rent another house close by. Remember, MS was only 4 at the time. Far too young to go without seeing his mommy. IMO
Oh, and the delinquent payment doesn't seem that off base either, if the one of them decided to file for divorce, thereby preventing access to the money that she usually paid bills from.

SunnieRN
08-23-2011, 05:46 PM
Found this interesting:

2:32pm on Friday, July 22, 2011
Phoenix Times Poll
-----------------------------
Rebecca Zahau
-------------------------
Murder = 90.23%
Suicide = 9.77%

I also wonder how well the PR firm is doing its job and what the numbers would be today.

CalElliot
08-23-2011, 06:14 PM
CalElliot, I looked at the examiner site and the only article I found was quoting the nbc article, is there a blog area I missed?

The initial examiner "reports" by Cindy Adams and Joel Siegfried have no named source. When NBC quoted their "reports," Adams then attributed it to NBC. Then all the other news outlets quoted NBC.

In less than 24 hours, have gone from Adams's "an unnamed law enforcement source has been reported as saying, "It doesn't look like Rebecca's death was by suicide..." to the NY Daily News headline: "Bizarre death of millionaire CEO Jonah Shacknai's girlfriend was a suicide."

Who knows if it is a homicide or a suicide at this point. But my sleuthing tells me that all it took for a public exoneration, to blame the victim, was to get someone to give a "tip" to a blog site.

i.b.nora
08-23-2011, 06:24 PM
Cindy Adams gets no tips. She copies and repeats stuff she gets from elsewhere. She either gets her material from legitimate news sources, TV or print, or from blogs/opinion pieces. She is in the business of collecting clicks, period. She was one of the first to sign up with examinerdotcom. None of her reporting is very original and never has been.

I don't know about Joel Siegfried.

CalElliot
08-23-2011, 06:25 PM
You can Google the reports of the day in Google news option, then select order by date, then track the spread of the suicide meme.

Quester
08-23-2011, 06:30 PM
And now out of the UK:

8/23 DailyMail: Millionaire's lover committed suicide because of guilt over death of six-year-old step-son, reveal police

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2029371/Jonah-Shacknais-lover-committed-suicide-guilt-death-6-year-old-step-son.html

Quester
08-23-2011, 06:58 PM
DS' name was again on the State of AZ Board of Psychologist Examiners' agenda for this mornings meeting.

Her name is listed under:

(b) DISCUSSION/DECISION REGARDING PSYCHOLOGY APPLICATIONS
ii. REQUESTING APPROVAL OF EXAM & LICENSURE

http://www.psychboard.az.gov/PDF/agmn/ag88.pdf

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 07:02 PM
I guess things can really "snowball" out of control..........can't you see Jose representing JS.......not an accident that led to murder......but a murder that led to an "accident"....

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

jjenny
08-23-2011, 07:53 PM
And now out of the UK:

8/23 DailyMail: Millionaire's lover committed suicide because of guilt over death of six-year-old step-son, reveal police

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2029371/Jonah-Shacknais-lover-committed-suicide-guilt-death-6-year-old-step-son.html

It's like a game of broken telephone. "Sources with knowledge of the investigation" somehow became detectives involved in the investigation.

Pach
08-23-2011, 07:55 PM
1.) AS said that Rebecca was hanging when he found her. what does he meant by hanging? by the neck ? if so, is the bruise marks on her neck in a straight horizontal wrap-around fashion characteristic of strangulation by another person or a v-shaped upward bruise characteristic of hanging ?

2.) if the evidence shows there was no hanging and AS said there was hanging, what does this mean? protecting himself ? or someone else ?

3.) did AS speak on record as having called his brother and other people either before or after he discovered the hanging Rebecca ? If so, and if he used a cellphone, does his cellphone records show this ? what else did AS say to police that can be proven or disproven by background or material evidence ? e.g. he said he was going to work(he lives and works out-of-state, forgot which state) but he ended up in Coronado on the eve of Rebecca's death.

4.) who did Rebecca talk to on her cellphone in the last 2 days or so before she died

5.) who did the "possible" suspects talk to in the 2 days before Rebecca died? cell phone records will show this.

6.) what does the facebook, twitter of rebecca and possible suspects, and their friends show in the 2 days before Rebecca died?

7.) why did the police not do a re-enactment of the scene ? that seems to imply they have enough confidence in their proof for either suicide or murder ??

8.) the police probably have a lot of evidence we do not know about, otherwise , they usually will appeal to the public for more information ??? or no ??

9.) assuming the rope is those heavy orange electrical cord, and the case is ruled a suicide, the police will have to do a re-enactment to convince people that its possible to tie one's hands and feet then jump. it is difficult tying things up with heavy electrical cord simply because its not meant for tying up. its meant for powering-up electrical equipment.

10.) whats the point of tying your feet prior to commiting suicide ? unless someone is trying to bungee jump :floorlaugh: or someone does not want you to escape.

jjenny
08-23-2011, 08:00 PM
The article further states the following:
One law enforcement source said Monday "no one is looking at it as a homicide."

Then what in the world are all 15 detectives investigating then? Aren't they supposed to investigate whether this was a homicide?
:banghead:

jjenny
08-23-2011, 08:02 PM
He is what imo I would call quite an expert on suicide not necessarily why it happens but how, and did work for the SDSD Homicide division for years, it is possible he still has connections to the department.

He might have connection to the department, but he doesn't appear to be convinced this was a suicide (at all). The abc15 article had to cut his quote (where he questioned why RN bound her feet) to make it appear that he thinks it's a suicide.

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 08:09 PM
Then what in the world are all 15 detectives investigating then? Aren't they supposed to investigate whether this was a homicide?
:banghead:

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh::f loorlaugh:

I think they are:

:back: :slapfight:

:denied: :detective: :online:

:Bennymonkey: :fence:

been waiting for you all day.......love your posts!!!

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 08:17 PM
Pach, snipped respectfully.....

7.) why did the police not do a re-enactment of the scene ? that seems to imply they have enough confidence in their proof for either suicide or murder ??

I thought they did not do the re-enactment because they had their 'manner of death' with the autopsy report (homicide) and they were waiting on the tox reports to confirm the autopsy.........

but how long for those darn reports......Amy Winehouse's tox reports were back today..........

I think they want us to go away........sorry, not happening :seeya::seeya: still here.......

defense101
08-23-2011, 08:35 PM
He might have connection to the department, but he doesn't appear to be convinced this was a suicide (at all). The abc15 article had to cut his quote (where he questioned why RN bound her feet) to make it appear that he thinks it's a suicide. I agree, which was kind of my point, he has experience with the how of suicides and his first opinion was this didn't look like a suicide. NBC imo deliberately used only a portion of his original statement to bolster their article of suicide being determined in RN's death.

arielilane
08-23-2011, 08:43 PM
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/A-Timeline-of-the-Deaths-at-Spreckels-Mansion-125827638.html

almino
08-23-2011, 08:45 PM
Well, JS did hire a PR firm didn't he? Maybe they are doing a VERY good job with the media, suggesting suicide.

arielilane
08-23-2011, 08:47 PM
Then what in the world are all 15 detectives investigating then? Aren't they supposed to investigate whether this was a homicide?
:banghead: Taxpayers must be livid.
http://www.wuerziworld.de/Smilies/pc/pc30.gif

defense101
08-23-2011, 08:59 PM
Well, JS did hire a PR firm didn't he? Maybe they are doing a VERY good job with the media, suggesting suicide. Yup and it looks like they only had to leak it to NBC's Tony Shin and then everyone else ran with it, just need one and then everyone jumps on the bandwagon.

scorekeeper
08-23-2011, 10:23 PM
:waiting::waiting::waiting::waiting::waiting:

:offtobed:

Inobu
08-23-2011, 10:46 PM
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/popcorn.gif

4Jacy
08-23-2011, 11:00 PM
http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-basic/popcorn.gif

Come on Inobu, share. I have the sodas!

ohiogirl
08-23-2011, 11:10 PM
I keep checking back here for some movement. this is frustrating.

jjenny
08-23-2011, 11:24 PM
I don't think one needs to be a psychic to predict police is going to declare RN's death a suicide. And Max's death a tragic accident (which I do believe is true). I don't think we will get anything else other than that.

sdcali
08-23-2011, 11:41 PM
IMO they know it was a murder, but still don't have the evidence they need to nail the correct perp. So, they continue to investigate. And we continue to wait. impatiently. :)

infobabe
08-24-2011, 07:44 AM
IMO they know it was a murder, but still don't have the evidence they need to nail the correct perp. So, they continue to investigate. And we continue to wait. impatiently. :)

Yes, and while we wait news web sites all over are repeating that police have detrmined her death was a suicide. The latest is the Daily Beast, the web site/blog of Newsweek:

Mogul Lover's Death Suicide: Cops
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheets/2011/08/24/cheat-sheet.html

Scroll all the way down to the bottom to read the RN blurb. It is a short paragraph and then you are directed to the Daily Mail site for the full article.
They are a UK paper that is very gossipy and probably Murdoch owned.

This is a remix of that same shoddy article we've been talking about. Difference is that the Daily Beast has done two "real" articles about this case, and then they do this link to another site with a head line that screams "the cops think she committed suicide". Which may be true, but to my knowledge the investigators have said nothing and we don't even know if the "source" is actually "close to the investigation" or someone that was made up so a sloppy article could be written. OR so that a PR firm could start earning its $$$.

The infuriating thing about this is that a reader who doesn't know much about the case (or even one who DOES) and is skimming sees the headline and thinks that its a done deal, this is what the investigators have said. Creating a "fact" in the public's mind that is not a fact.

Grrrr.:sick:

oceanblueeyes
08-24-2011, 09:10 AM
That is so sad!
I know it sounds odd, but I bet he found comfort in doing it where those he'd loved would find him.

Yes, it is so sad. He had so much to live for...

We have thought the same as you have stated when trying to make some sense out of it. Maybe he did do it at the place he felt most loved but he destroyed the lives of his grandparents who never got over the tragedy.

That is why I know he was not in the right frame of mind because if he had thought about their pain for one second he would have never come there to do it.

IMO

oceanblueeyes
08-24-2011, 09:19 AM
IMO they know it was a murder, but still don't have the evidence they need to nail the correct perp. So, they continue to investigate. And we continue to wait. impatiently. :)

I am not sure that they know it was murder. If the tapes at the hospital shows Dina and Jonah there during the night that Rebecca died then they would be excluded.

So that would leave Adam and he may have taken a poly and passed.

Imo, they have taken Rebecca's cell phone records and have interviewed everyone that came in contact with her from the time of Maxie's accident until she died..... either by phone. email or in person and they asked about her demeanor and if she was highly upset because of Maxie's accident.

I really think they all knew pretty soon after he was taken to the hospital that he was brain dead and was never going to survive so they kept him on life support until his organs could be harvested.

IMO

scorekeeper
08-24-2011, 09:34 AM
Good morning, :coffeews:

another day of waiting :waiting::waiting:

The PR company did their job :snowball:

I have to believe that LE has looked at everything and their final
decision will be the truth (and that they will share their findings) :cop:

Will check back later today....

:praying::praying: for justice for RN :smiliescale:

Quester
08-24-2011, 09:39 AM
Regarding the 911 calls that have been sealed, they must contain a wealth of information about these two cases.

Re MS' Monday "fall": 911 call said to have been made by GS; she is said to have been "hysterical" on the call; must have included most everything she knew about the "fall"; RN was said to have been administering CPR at the time. [sorry no links, all from my memory]

Re RN's discovery on Wednesday: 911 call made by AS must contain more details about RN's state when found; description of location of the blue scarf when found?; description of how he cut her down?; when he last saw her alive.

What is the protocol on releasing the recordings of the 911 calls to the public?

Will they eventually be released?

Or, can they be sealed permanently?

TIA

scorekeeper
08-24-2011, 09:40 AM
I am not sure that they know it was murder. If the tapes at the hospital shows Dina and Jonah there during the night that Rebecca died then they would be excluded.

So that would leave Adam and he may have taken a poly and passed.

Imo, they have taken Rebecca's cell phone records and have interviewed everyone that came in contact with her from the time of Maxie's accident until she died..... either by phone. email or in person and they asked about her demeanor and if she was highly upset because of Maxie's accident.

I really think they all knew pretty soon after he was taken to the hospital that he was brain dead and was never going to survive so they kept him on life support until his organs could be harvested.

IMO

But why wait so long? The autopsy was completed the day after RN was found. The tox reports shouldn't have taken more than a couple of weeks.
What reports are they waiting for so that they can say she commited suicide?

This is soooooooooooooo frustrating.........We need more information!!

Have a good day!

oceanblueeyes
08-24-2011, 10:15 AM
But why wait so long? The autopsy was completed the day after RN was found. The tox reports shouldn't have taken more than a couple of weeks.
What reports are they waiting for so that they can say she committed suicide?

This is soooooooooooooo frustrating.........We need more information!!

Have a good day!

Morning Score!:seeya:

I know it is frustrating to all of us but really until the toxicology results are back in the AR isn't even complete. The ME will not even sign off on the official AR until they have those results back.

While the UK does seem to have the ability to get their results back quicker in the US it has always taken around 8 weeks, and that was even before the economy went south ,and now a lot of labs are hamstrung with major cutbacks so it is even taking longer if their caseload is heavy, and we all know California is a huge state with many cases going on at one time.

I think LE already has a good idea of what happened and the COD/MOD but when a case is a possible suicide then a psychological autopsy is done and imo they need the results of the tox reports to see if Rebecca was under the influence of either drugs or alcohol at the time.

If so, they will use that information to further bolster their decision and will draw from other suicide cases where the person was under the influence.........making them more susceptible to doing something compulsive/irrational especially if they were already dealing with a major tragedy. Alcohol intake exacerbates the depression some feel. "Tear in my beer" mood. etc.

LE is dotting all of their "I's" and crossing their "Ts" imo.

IMO

Quester
08-24-2011, 10:20 AM
Originally Posted by jjenny; Thread #6, post #834
A tragic accident is called a tragic accident for a reason. There is no "justice" for a tragic accident. Police has never once stated they believe Max's death was anything but a tragic accident, while RN's death could be either a murder or a suicide.
That's just your opinion.

Originally Posted by MyBelle; Thread #6, post #839
I haven't seen LE or ME rule Maxie's death a tragic accident. I have seen the reports they decided to look into his death and are investigating. You are stating facts that haven't even been released.

Bringing this interesting post forward.

Hmmm .... was there a "yet" missing from the end of the last line? Or, would that be redundant?

jjenny
08-24-2011, 11:26 AM
Her supposed suicide would be even more difficult to pull off if she were in fact intoxicated. We are talking about hand bound behind her back and feet bound.
That would involve some acrobatics to either get onto the table or jump off the balcony. How is someone intoxicated would be able to pull that off?

time
08-24-2011, 11:31 AM
Giving kuddos to those news stations that resisted the suicide meme - at least I think. Channel 10 seems to have done a good job of coverage?

http://www.10news.com/news/28689113/detail.html

justice be served
08-24-2011, 11:35 AM
I am not sure that they know it was murder. If the tapes at the hospital shows Dina and Jonah there during the night that Rebecca died then they would be excluded.

IMO

Ocean, I would respectfully take exception to excluding either DS or JS just because they may not have left the hospital when the dirty deed occurred. IMO, either one of them could have had others carry it out with my leaning toward JS.

time
08-24-2011, 11:40 AM
Her supposed suicide would be even more difficult to pull off if she were in fact intoxicated. We are talking about hand bound behind her back and feet bound.
That would involve some acrobatics to either get onto the table or jump off the balcony. How is someone intoxicated would be able to pull that off?

I'm more inclined to believe that also and that if she wanted to commit suicide, there were pills available. I can't believe she was intoxicated or took drugs and then bound her hands and feet, naked, and then hung herself. Good point.

Jade
08-24-2011, 12:01 PM
What if she had been beaten then committed suicide?

Bound and tied to something in the room, beaten and berated then left alone.

With the orange cord not being something that knots tight working its way somewhat looser and she makes her way to the balcony and flings over…

But that doesn’t account for the blue scarf which I think had significance to her.

All imo

oceanblueeyes
08-24-2011, 12:50 PM
Ocean, I would respectfully take exception to excluding either DS or JS just because they may not have left the hospital when the dirty deed occurred. IMO, either one of them could have had others carry it out with my leaning toward JS.

That is true but communication would have to be made between this supposed "person" and either Dina or Jonah.

I have no doubt Dina and Jonah's cell phone records have also been retrieved so LE would know who they had been in contact with from the time Maxie got hurt until Rebecca died. With them being at the hospital so much during this time with Max on his death bed I think it has made it easier for police to know where they were at all times.

If I was to speculate I see more of a viable motive by Dina than Jonah but then I have nothing whatsoever to base that on.

IMO

oceanblueeyes
08-24-2011, 12:58 PM
I'm more inclined to believe that also and that if she wanted to commit suicide, there were pills available. I can't believe she was intoxicated or took drugs and then bound her hands and feet, naked, and then hung herself. Good point.

But to me..time......that is trying to put our rational thinking into the minds of the suicidal persons and doing their thinking for them which is not doable, imo.

If that were the case then ALL women who commit suicide would take an overdose of drugs and that is simply not the case. They do overdose themselves but they also hang or shoot themselves too. There is no set profile where every case fits into a neat box because these people can be very creative in how they commit suicide.

She wouldn't have to be falling down drunk if she drank alcohol or even if she took some sedatives beforehand.

The brutal truth is we cannot get into the minds of those who do this or know why they pick the methodology they do.

IMO

CalElliot
08-24-2011, 01:13 PM
Yes, and while we wait news web sites all over are repeating that police have detrmined her death was a suicide. The latest is the Daily Beast, the web site/blog of Newsweek:

Mogul Lover's Death Suicide: Cops
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheets/2011/08/24/cheat-sheet.html

Scroll all the way down to the bottom to read the RN blurb. It is a short paragraph and then you are directed to the Daily Mail site for the full article.
They are a UK paper that is very gossipy and probably Murdoch owned.

This is a remix of that same shoddy article we've been talking about. Difference is that the Daily Beast has done two "real" articles about this case, and then they do this link to another site with a head line that screams "the cops think she committed suicide". Which may be true, but to my knowledge the investigators have said nothing and we don't even know if the "source" is actually "close to the investigation" or someone that was made up so a sloppy article could be written. OR so that a PR firm could start earning its $$$.

The infuriating thing about this is that a reader who doesn't know much about the case (or even one who DOES) and is skimming sees the headline and thinks that its a done deal, this is what the investigators have said. Creating a "fact" in the public's mind that is not a fact.

Grrrr.:sick:

Notice the name of the Daily Beast crime reporter who did the previous two news stories did not do this one, nor report on the supposed break in the news. Why Newsweek/Daily Beast ran it at all is beyond me.

Quester
08-24-2011, 02:12 PM
Uugh ... more of the same!

8/24 CBS: Report: Death of Millionaire's girlfriend in San Diego mansion was suicide

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20096692-504083.html

defense101
08-24-2011, 02:16 PM
Uugh ... more of the same!

8/24 CBS: Report: Death of Millionaire's girlfriend in San Diego mansion was suicide

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20096692-504083.html Yes and once again they refer you to the NBC article by Tony Shin, just need one and then they all repeat :banghead:

justice be served
08-24-2011, 02:25 PM
That is true but communication would have to be made between this supposed "person" and either Dina or Jonah.

I have no doubt Dina and Jonah's cell phone records have also been retrieved so LE would know who they had been in contact with from the time Maxie got hurt until Rebecca died. With them being at the hospital so much during this time with Max on his death bed I think it has made it easier for police to know where they were at all times.

If I was to speculate I see more of a viable motive by Dina than Jonah but then I have nothing whatsoever to base that on.

IMO

Ocean, very good point on the phone records being pulled up for if one were to summon 'help' to take care of Rebecca, that would be indicated indeed. Just so I understand where you are coming from, do you lean more toward Dina because she held a grudge about Rebecca maybe breaking up her marriage or do you think that Jonah would not be inclined to murder his fiance? Simply curious and I'm certain the reasons don't boil down to these simplistic points.

Money Girl
08-24-2011, 02:31 PM
No amount of propoganda originated in the camps of JS and DS will convince me that RZ committed suicide. In fact, JS should be ashamed of himself (especially if he is innocent) for not using his riches to hire private detectives and bring to justice whomever murdered RZ.

justice be served
08-24-2011, 02:42 PM
No amount of propoganda originated in the camps of JS and DS will convince me that RZ committed suicide. In fact, JS should be ashamed of himself (especially if he is innocent) for not using his riches to hire private detectives and bring to justice whomever murdered RZ.

Your last sentence says it all and IMO is very telling. He may have indeed attended Rebecca's memorial service but I consider that a token gesture that he knew it would be ill-perceived if he had not gone. What the heck HAS he done to show his feelings for his supposed fiance following her death? I guess he's been WAY to busy with the PR firm and IMO their advice hasn't been the best.

MyBelle
08-24-2011, 03:11 PM
Bringing this interesting post forward.

Hmmm .... was there a "yet" missing from the end of the last line? Or, would that be redundant?

Please allow me to clarify my posting. If I had intended to add "yet" to the end of my posting, I would have done so.

I do not view massive brain injuries to a small child in his own home to be a result of a tragic accident. I view them as a result of negligence. If I were his mother and father, I would be outraged that he wasn't being supervised and I would expect his care-giver to be held accountable. imo, the victim in this case is Maxie and Rebecca knew she was responsible. I'll let the investigators make conclusions about her death. Suicide is entirely possible, imo.

time
08-24-2011, 03:23 PM
Please allow me to clarify my posting. If I had intended to add "yet" to the end of my posting, I would have done so.

I do not view massive brain injuries to a small child in his own home to be a result of a tragic accident. I view them as a result of negligence. If I were his mother and father, I would be outraged that he wasn't being supervised and I would expect his care-giver to be held accountable. imo, the victim in this case is Maxie and Rebecca knew she was responsible. I'll let the investigators make conclusions about her death. Suicide is entirely possible, imo.


We have no evidence this was negligence on Rebecca's part. I can give you at least two possible scenarios that contradict that.

1. Many teenagers at 13 or 14 years old would be considered responsible enough to watch after a 6 year old. Certainly for short period or while someone runs to cook or to the laundry. My grandson is 6 and I doubt his mom can or does watch him every single second.

2. There are unforseable accidents that do not count as negligence - a dog is scared for some reason or is excited and runs through the house, a child gets knocked over or a teenager is horsing around with her younger brother and it gets out of hand.

I'm not sure I believe Max's death is the result of an accident, but I think it is far fetched to claim it is a fact that Rebecca was negligent.

sdcali
08-24-2011, 04:18 PM
I am not sure that they know it was murder. If the tapes at the hospital shows Dina and Jonah there during the night that Rebecca died then they would be excluded.

So that would leave Adam and he may have taken a poly and passed.

Imo, they have taken Rebecca's cell phone records and have interviewed everyone that came in contact with her from the time of Maxie's accident until she died..... either by phone. email or in person and they asked about her demeanor and if she was highly upset because of Maxie's accident.

I really think they all knew pretty soon after he was taken to the hospital that he was brain dead and was never going to survive so they kept him on life support until his organs could be harvested.

IMO

call me a cynic, but IMO just because JS and DS have alibi's does not clear them in my book. This is somone who got his daughter out of town lickety split at the same time he learned that his youngest child was gravely injured. I can't even imagine how he processed it all and of course, why it was done. But it leads me to wonder with power, influence and money, who knows what else he could have arranged.

sdcali
08-24-2011, 04:23 PM
That is true but communication would have to be made between this supposed "person" and either Dina or Jonah.

I have no doubt Dina and Jonah's cell phone records have also been retrieved so LE would know who they had been in contact with from the time Maxie got hurt until Rebecca died. With them being at the hospital so much during this time with Max on his death bed I think it has made it easier for police to know where they were at all times.

If I was to speculate I see more of a viable motive by Dina than Jonah but then I have nothing whatsoever to base that on.

IMO

This answered my previous post (should have read further before posting..haha). But what if a call were made from the telephone in the hospital or some other location? Or he called AS and asked him to place a call? Or someone else entirely. Asked another "visitor". I can imagine all sorts of scenarios to getting the word out. Its easier for me to believe that than it is for me to accept that RN killed herself. :banghead:

MyBelle
08-24-2011, 04:27 PM
We have no evidence this was negligence on Rebecca's part. I can give you at least two possible scenarios that contradict that.

1. Many teenagers at 13 or 14 years old would be considered responsible enough to watch after a 6 year old. Certainly for short period or while someone runs to cook or to the laundry. My grandson is 6 and I doubt his mom can or does watch him every single second.

2. There are unforseable accidents that do not count as negligence - a dog is scared for some reason or is excited and runs through the house, a child gets knocked over or a teenager is horsing around with her younger brother and it gets out of hand.

I'm not sure I believe Max's death is the result of an accident, but I think it is far fetched to claim it is a fact that Rebecca was negligent.

The evidence there was negligence is a dead child with a brain injury, imo. Someone questioned my previous posting and I provided clarification.

Your scenarios aren't remotely similar to what is known in this case. I will continue to hold my opinion that fatal brain trauma to a child in his own home are a result of negligence. Rebecca was Max's caregiver. I doubt she was busily distracted with cooking and cleaning the mansion but, again, that's imo.

Other details of Maxie's injuries have not been revealed but so far, no blame has been placed on the dog. If the dog were that rambunctious, its play with Maxie should have been supervised. I have dogs I would never allow around kids unsupervised.

I think it is far-fetched to accuse Maxie's grieving parents of murdering his dad's girlfriend when there is no evidence whatsoever to support it but that's also just my opinion.

MyBelle
08-24-2011, 04:37 PM
call me a cynic, but IMO just because JS and DS have alibi's does not clear them in my book. This is somone who got his daughter out of town lickety split at the same time he learned that his youngest child was gravely injured. I can't even imagine how he processed it all and of course, why it was done. But it leads me to wonder with power, influence and money, who knows what else he could have arranged.

Those with power, influence and money usually do love their children and have a duty to ensure their well-being. Where did JS send his daughter? I'm curious why you consider it to be such a bad place.

Quester
08-24-2011, 04:52 PM
Hi MyBelle :seeya:

I’m curious, you seem to believe that RN intentionally, willfully, maliciously harmed MS.

Why?

What is your theory?

TIA

scorekeeper
08-24-2011, 05:31 PM
Please allow me to clarify my posting. If I had intended to add "yet" to the end of my posting, I would have done so.

I do not view massive brain injuries to a small child in his own home to be a result of a tragic accident. I view them as a result of negligence. If I were his mother and father, I would be outraged that he wasn't being supervised and I would expect his care-giver to be held accountable. imo, the victim in this case is Maxie and Rebecca knew she was responsible. I'll let the investigators make conclusions about her death. Suicide is entirely possible, imo.

Glad you posted. I know you had asked about "an investigation/hospital reporting to LE". I had thought LE was involved but didn't want to post until I had a link.

In Ohio, children's services or LE, can investigate possible abuse. If this was in Ohio, since LE was at the scene (they would have been the lead agency), there would have been no reason to "report" (since LE did and/or was investigating).

I found the article.....

During Thursday's press conference authorities said a woman called 911 and reported the unidentified child, who is the son of Jonah Shacknai and his ex-wife Dina, had fallen from a staircase at the home. Police and fire department officials responding to the scene said the child was not breathing and did not have a pulse. He was eventually taken to Rady Children's Hospital.

Authorities said there was no information that indicated the child's fall was anything more than a tragic accident. Authorities said the woman's death and the boy's injury are not related.

http://www.10news.com/news/28534601/detail.html

BBM

Pach
08-24-2011, 05:33 PM
comeon, are you trying to say , when you watch your child, you watch the kid every minute? it only takes a few seconds or even a split second for an accident happen.

negligence and/or abuse to me is willful/intentional neglect or harm.




I do not view massive brain injuries to a small child in his own home to be a result of a tragic accident. I view them as a result of negligence. If I were his mother and father, I would be outraged that he wasn't being supervised and I would expect his care-giver to be held accountable. imo, the victim in this case is Maxie and Rebecca knew she was responsible. I'll let the investigators make conclusions about her death. Suicide is entirely possible, imo.

Pach
08-24-2011, 05:36 PM
this statement by authorities has got to be the most fantastic statement. hahaha. they gotta be pulling our eggs. :floorlaugh:

if this keeps happening, we should start compiling a top 10 list of fantastic statements by authorities or news reporters and send it to David Letterman.

Authorities said the woman's death and the boy's injury are not related.

http://www.10news.com/news/28534601/detail.html

BBM

scorekeeper
08-24-2011, 05:45 PM
That is true but communication would have to be made between this supposed "person" and either Dina or Jonah.

I have no doubt Dina and Jonah's cell phone records have also been retrieved so LE would know who they had been in contact with from the time Maxie got hurt until Rebecca died. With them being at the hospital so much during this time with Max on his death bed I think it has made it easier for police to know where they were at all times.

If I was to speculate I see more of a viable motive by Dina than Jonah but then I have nothing whatsoever to base that on.

IMO

BBM

We aren't sure they were at the hospital 24/7. As a parent, I know I would be but I also know that I would have given my son more time (yes, I believe in miracles and I don't want to have that argument - just my opinion/belief). I also know I probably would want to walk on the beach, cry and come to terms, make decision, etc..

It seems that they may have decided on Tuesday to harvest his organs (doesn't it take 3-4 days to get everything arranged - if not an emergency)?

Perhaps once JS and/or DS found out that Maxie wasn't going to "pull through" he/she went to the mansion to express his/her anger at RN?

Yes, the hospital tapes and cell phone calls could possibly shed a lot of light on what really happened......I can't imagine that JS and RN didn't talk.

It would be easier to surprise RN if she was sleeping.....

scorekeeper
08-24-2011, 06:14 PM
The sources believe that Zahu's alleged suicide was sparked when Max Shacknai, the 6-year-old son of Zahau's millionaire boyfriend Jonah Shacknai, suffered a severe brain injury after falling from the grand staircase at the mansion on July 11. Max Shacknai died two days after the accident, reports the station

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20096692-504083.html

BBM

:maddening::maddening::maddening::maddening:

Where in the fudge are they getting their information?????:banghead::banghead:

I have never seen such pizz poor reporting!!!! I think all the reporters in the San Diego area are :crazy::crazy:

oceanblueeyes
08-24-2011, 06:20 PM
Ocean, very good point on the phone records being pulled up for if one were to summon 'help' to take care of Rebecca, that would be indicated indeed. Just so I understand where you are coming from, do you lean more toward Dina because she held a grudge about Rebecca maybe breaking up her marriage or do you think that Jonah would not be inclined to murder his fiance? Simply curious and I'm certain the reasons don't boil down to these simplistic points.

Hi Justice!

I am inclined to believe this was a tragic suicide but I am still open to it being a homicide.

From what we have read about Dina she did not want Jonah to leave her so maybe she did not want the marriage to end. I have read that Jonah had been with Rebecca for 2 years and then sometimes I see it had been three years. If it was the latter then that would mean he was with Rebecca before his divorce from Dina so I can definitely see the resentment Dina may have toward Rebecca. What is contrary to that is a link was put up supposedly by a child of Dina's boyfriend. If that is the case then it would seem Dina had moved past her prior marriage to Jonah and found someone else.

The reason I see Dina having more of a motive is Maxie was her only child and it sure seems like both parents loved their adorable son. Even if Dina didn't care about Jonah anymore it does not mean she liked Rebecca or how close Rebecca and Maxie were.

Maxie death would be devastating for anyone but for some reason I think Dina would have been outraged more.

Now having said that........I am not sure anyone is guilty of harming Rebecca. I can certainly understand how Maxie's death would send Rebecca into a tailspin of despair. Depressed enough to think her life would never be the same and she just couldn't live with herself knowing Maxie died on her watch.

IMO

time
08-24-2011, 06:26 PM
The evidence there was negligence is a dead child with a brain injury, imo. Someone questioned my previous posting and I provided clarification.

Your scenarios aren't remotely similar to what is known in this case. I will continue to hold my opinion that fatal brain trauma to a child in his own home are a result of negligence. Rebecca was Max's caregiver. I doubt she was busily distracted with cooking and cleaning the mansion but, again, that's imo.

Other details of Maxie's injuries have not been revealed but so far, no blame has been placed on the dog. If the dog were that rambunctious, its play with Maxie should have been supervised. I have dogs I would never allow around kids unsupervised.

I think it is far-fetched to accuse Maxie's grieving parents of murdering his dad's girlfriend when there is no evidence whatsoever to support it but that's also just my opinion.

What facts exactly are known to the public about Max's death?

I've followed this case from the beginning and initially LE said it was a tragic accident (fall from stair case) and then that the two cases were not seen as connected and then that they would be investigating Max's death.

I am not claiming I think it was an accident, nor the dog, nor anything specific. That's the point... I'm saying we don't know enough about what happened. But I do not see any evidence that states as fact that Rebecca was negligent. Why wouldn't Rebecca possibly have been cooking something or whatever. You seem to be setting an impossible standard on parents or so called 'caregivers' such as Rebecca. Interesting.

time
08-24-2011, 06:35 PM
But to me..time......that is trying to put our rational thinking into the minds of the suicidal persons and doing their thinking for them which is not doable, imo.

If that were the case then ALL women who commit suicide would take an overdose of drugs and that is simply not the case. They do overdose themselves but they also hang or shoot themselves too. There is no set profile where every case fits into a neat box because these people can be very creative in how they commit suicide.

She wouldn't have to be falling down drunk if she drank alcohol or even if she took some sedatives beforehand.

The brutal truth is we cannot get into the minds of those who do this or know why they pick the methodology they do.

IMO


Oh, I know what you are saying ... I was just trying to make the point (whether good or not :) that the pragmatic/physical aspect would be MORE difficult with inebriation or pills. If it was just a glass of wine, no.

oceanblueeyes
08-24-2011, 06:36 PM
BBM

We aren't sure they were at the hospital 24/7. As a parent, I know I would be but I also know that I would have given my son more time (yes, I believe in miracles and I don't want to have that argument - just my opinion/belief). I also know I probably would want to walk on the beach, cry and come to terms, make decision, etc..

It seems that they may have decided on Tuesday to harvest his organs (doesn't it take 3-4 days to get everything arranged - if not an emergency)?

Perhaps once JS and/or DS found out that Maxie wasn't going to "pull through" he/she went to the mansion to express his/her anger at RN?

Yes, the hospital tapes and cell phone calls could possibly shed a lot of light on what really happened......I can't imagine that JS and RN didn't talk.

It would be easier to surprise RN if she was sleeping.....

BBM

No, we aren't sure but by now the police are very aware where they both were and when.

I wish we knew more about Rebecca's life before she even met Jonah. I'd like to know what her life was like back in Burma? Had she suffered tragic loss before?

I just have a feeling there is something about Rebecca's past we don't know about.

JMOO

time
08-24-2011, 06:36 PM
I too would like to hear MaBelle's theory tho I didn't think she was saying it was necessarily intentional, willful or malicious.

My theory is that RN may not have been the greatest substitute mom to Max and perhaps that was apparent to both parents so that when the accident occurred they both duly or unduly blamed her <modsnip>.

Sounded to me like she was talking criminal negligence? Maybe I read into it. But I'm not sure from what we know it was even negligent on her part. I do think it's a stretch to say under ordinary circumstance that a child fell off the stairs and was immediately brain dead. There could be extenuating circumstance - like medication or something else, rough housing, and so on. I don't believe even parents can control everything a child does, especially at 6.

Invisible
08-24-2011, 07:11 PM
I guess things can really "snowball" out of control..........can't you see Jose representing JS.......not an accident that led to murder......but a murder that led to an "accident"....

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

I can actually hear him saying that in his closing argument. :loser:

scorekeeper
08-24-2011, 07:22 PM
BBM

No, we aren't sure but by now the police are very aware where they both were and when.

I wish we knew more about Rebecca's life before she even met Jonah. I'd like to know what her life was like back in Burma? Had she suffered tragic loss before?

I just have a feeling there is something about Rebecca's past we don't know about.

JMOO

BBM

Ocean,

But we DO KNOW about JS and DS - both have a documented, violent past. And those are the documented fights we know about!!

Remember, DS probably just found out that her only child and tie to JS was gone.....poof

Back to saying that scene was too bizzare, violent for a suicide.....

defense101
08-24-2011, 07:27 PM
What facts exactly are known to the public about Max's death?

I've followed this case from the beginning and initially LE said it was a tragic accident (fall from stair case) and then that the two cases were not seen as connected and then that they would be investigating Max's death.

I am not claiming I think it was an accident, nor the dog, nor anything specific. That's the point... I'm saying we don't know enough about what happened. But I do not see any evidence that states as fact that Rebecca was negligent. Why wouldn't Rebecca possibly have been cooking something or whatever. You seem to be setting an impossible standard on parents or so called 'caregivers' such as Rebecca. Interesting. I believe as well if not for what happened to RN MS tragic death would have stayed just that a tragic accident. Coronado PD is handling MS death and as they have no homicide dept I believe that is what it is going to stay just a tragic accident. imo

justice be served
08-24-2011, 07:36 PM
Hi Justice!

I am inclined to believe this was a tragic suicide but I am still open to it being a homicide.

From what we have read about Dina she did not want Jonah to leave her so maybe she did not want the marriage to end. I have read that Jonah had been with Rebecca for 2 years and then sometimes I see it had been three years. If it was the latter then that would mean he was with Rebecca before his divorce from Dina so I can definitely see the resentment Dina may have toward Rebecca. What is contrary to that is a link was put up supposedly by a child of Dina's boyfriend. If that is the case then it would seem Dina had moved past her prior marriage to Jonah and found someone else.

The reason I see Dina having more of a motive is Maxie was her only child and it sure seems like both parents loved their adorable son. Even if Dina didn't care about Jonah anymore it does not mean she liked Rebecca or how close Rebecca and Maxie were.

Maxie death would be devastating for anyone but for some reason I think Dina would have been outraged more.

Now having said that........I am not sure anyone is guilty of harming Rebecca. I can certainly understand how Maxie's death would send Rebecca into a tailspin of despair. Depressed enough to think her life would never be the same and she just couldn't live with herself knowing Maxie died on her watch.

IMO

Ocean, I very much appreciate your view and it helps to hear a consolidation of things in the bigger picture as I’m struggling with what the truth may be. One thing I think about is the potential for a different viewpoint of DS still wanting to be with JS. This is strictly theory:
From what has been posted with sources documented, Dina and Jonah went through a contentious divorce that was ultimately sealed. It’s not unusual for one or both parties in a divorce to have a private eye investigate what the spouse is up to before a divorce. Because we know that RN and JS were together for several years, my theory is that DS not only found out about JS seeing RN during their marriage, she discovered more than she set out to find about her husband which would prove embarrassing to him. Because of that, my theory is that DS received a huge divorce settlement agreeing to have the divorce proceedings sealed and she was happy to be wealthy in her own right and away from JS – the man she thought she knew but didn’t.
I also think DS would fully put the blame on RN for Max’s death just as I would if my own son died in someone else’s care. Conversely, I would also feel blame had a child died under my care.
So many questions left hanging by LE………it makes one speculate endlessly! :banghead:

Quester
08-24-2011, 07:49 PM
Please allow me to clarify my posting. If I had intended to add "yet" to the end of my posting, I would have done so.

I do not view massive brain injuries to a small child in his own home to be a result of a tragic accident. I view them as a result of negligence. If I were his mother and father, I would be outraged that he wasn't being supervised and I would expect his care-giver to be held accountable. imo, the victim in this case is Maxie and Rebecca knew she was responsible. I'll let the investigators make conclusions about her death. Suicide is entirely possible, imo.

Thank you for your clarification.

I understand your thoughts on negligence but was Maxie in need of constant surveillance?

If not, most parents/care-givers give some leeway/freedom in the family home to a child of 6 especially when accompanied by a 14 year old older sibling.

And, unfortunately, tragic accidents can and do happen.

4Jacy
08-24-2011, 07:56 PM
That is true but communication would have to be made between this supposed "person" and either Dina or Jonah.

I have no doubt Dina and Jonah's cell phone records have also been retrieved so LE would know who they had been in contact with from the time Maxie got hurt until Rebecca died. With them being at the hospital so much during this time with Max on his death bed I think it has made it easier for police to know where they were at all times.

If I was to speculate I see more of a viable motive by Dina than Jonah but then I have nothing whatsoever to base that on.

IMO

Actually, I think both Dina and Jonas are far too clever to use their own cell phones for anything nefarious. Probably Dina would have called her sister/mother or Jonas would have called his brother. Nothing suspicious there. <modsnip>.

believe09
08-24-2011, 07:57 PM
Yup and it looks like they only had to leak it to NBC's Tony Shin and then everyone else ran with it, just need one and then everyone jumps on the bandwagon.

Law enforcement too?

justice be served
08-24-2011, 08:03 PM
Actually, I think both Dina and Jonas are far too clever to use their own cell phones for anything nefarious. Probably Dina would have called her sister/mother or Jonas would have called his brother. Nothing suspicious there.<modsnip>.

:woohoo: Yes these are no dummies and that makes sense. IMO I don't think JS would call his brother. I have this sneaky feeling that the brother had something going with RN.

Lawgirl
08-24-2011, 08:40 PM
I personally have not read one thing in the past five weeks that would lead me to conclude that any type of relationship existed between AS and RN. :popcorn:

Lawgirl
08-24-2011, 08:43 PM
Ocean, I very much appreciate your view and it helps to hear a consolidation of things in the bigger picture as I’m struggling with what the truth may be. One thing I think about is the potential for a different viewpoint of DS still wanting to be with JS. This is strictly theory:
From what has been posted with sources documented, Dina and Jonah went through a contentious divorce that was ultimately sealed. It’s not unusual for one or both parties in a divorce to have a private eye investigate what the spouse is up to before a divorce. Because we know that RN and JS were together for several years, my theory is that DS not only found out about JS seeing RN during their marriage, she discovered more than she set out to find about her husband which would prove embarrassing to him. Because of that, my theory is that DS received a huge divorce settlement agreeing to have the divorce proceedings sealed and she was happy to be wealthy in her own right and away from JS – the man she thought she knew but didn’t.
I also think DS would fully put the blame on RN for Max’s death just as I would if my own son died in someone else’s care. Conversely, I would also feel blame had a child died under my care.
So many questions left hanging by LE………it makes one speculate endlessly! :banghead:

I agree - accident or no accident - if anything happened to my child in someone's care that would be the end of the relationship with that person for good -- just as I would not forgive myself if something happened under my own care.

defense101
08-24-2011, 08:43 PM
Law enforcement too? Quite possibly too:(

Salem
08-24-2011, 08:44 PM
Guys - let's back off this "hit" theory for now. There is nothing in the MSM or from LE that would give rise to such a theory. If something comes out, we can revisit the issue, but for now, let's leave it be considering that RN's death has not even been determined to be a homicide..

We are a victim friendly board and we extend that to the family of victims. While theories are allowed, they need to be based on the facts of the case. It is understandable how this theory was reached, but until RN's death is declared a homicide, it is disrespectful to discuss the family in this manner.

Again - as we get more information, this could change.

Salem

scorekeeper
08-24-2011, 08:51 PM
:woohoo: Yes these are no dummies and that makes sense. IMO I don't think JS would call his brother. I have this sneaky feeling that the brother had something going with RN.

But it doesn't seem that JS and AS were close; also I don't think AS attended the memorial for RN.

It sure does make an interesting storyline, though.....LOL

defense101
08-24-2011, 08:55 PM
I agree - accident or no accident - if anything happened to my child in someone's care that would be the end of the relationship with that person for good -- just as I would not forgive myself if something happened under my own care. I never had children but I agree with you, this I why if my husbands kids want their kids to come visit us wherever we are, unless a parent comes with the grand kids and nieces and nephews I won't have them. I won't take on that kind of responsibility for something happening to them on my watch.

scorekeeper
08-24-2011, 08:59 PM
Guys - let's back off this "hit" theory for now. There is nothing in the MSM or from LE that would give rise to such a theory. If something comes out, we can revisit the issue, but for now, let's leave it be considering that RN's death has not even been determined to be a homicide..

We are a victim friendly board and we extend that to the family of victims. While theories are allowed, they need to be based on the facts of the case. It is understandable how this theory was reached, but until RN's death is declared a homicide, it is disrespectful to discuss the family in this manner.

Again - as we get more information, this could change.

Salem

At this time, based on official information from LE, RN's death has not been declared a homicide or a suicide. This is from an early article.....

When asked if the woman's death could be ruled a suicide, Curran said, "That is a possibility. [The] circumstances are bizarre."

On Thursday, Curran told reporters he could not comment on what investigators found inside the residence because it is active investigation. He said authorities cleared scene at 9 a.m. Thursday.

Curran said the case remained a "death investigation" -- not necessarily a murder inquiry -- as detectives try to determine if the woman was slain or if she might have committed suicide.

BBM

I totally understand the "hit" comment to back off.

But am I wrong to be able to discuss either murder or suicide?

TIA

Lawgirl
08-24-2011, 09:06 PM
This is my take on the situation.

Maxxie is fatally hurt in that fall and this was known from the moment the paramedics got to the house. Apparently he had no pulse and there was no brain activity. Both parents knew that their son was gone, and they lost him. Day 1. Shock, pain, devastation...

Day. 2. Fury/unimaginable anger sets in. JS calls RN and tells her it is good idea to send the dog away (the seed of revenge is now planted) -- he's not necessarily upfront about Maxxie's condition because "she" doesn't even deserve to know the true situation. Maxxie's loss is so unimaginable that the words cannot even be spoken -- so GS thinks "prayers" will help and RN thinks she needs to be there for JS -- and will keep her family abreast of little Maxxie's condition. As if...no pulse means he will be alright eventually..but what does she know about these things. She probably does not want to admit the little boy is gone either.

JS comes home at some point. He goes to talk to his brother -- after all he came all the way from out of town to give him support -- and goes to the garage to get an electrical cord afterwards. He already has bad intentions -- he is devastated and angry. Maxxie meant the world to him.

JS demands to know what happened from RN and why did she allow this to happen when she was in charge of Maxxie. This is exactly what I picture myself doing...it's not really an explanation being sought...the deed is done and the damage cannot be undone. Nothign she says will make it right -- but he wants to "hear it from her mouth." Her answers sound pitiful to him -- almost a mockery. Nothing she tells him will console him or make it right. There is no excuse. He unleashes upon her the devastation he feels she unleashed upon him by not taking care of his little boy.

After the deed is done -- AS hears the commotion -- he hears the music -- he intervenes when it is too late. She is already dead. At this point, he does the only thing he could think of doing for his only brother ...which is to help him get out of this nightmare. JS and his brother plan what their next steps are going to be. Things were carefully thought out ... staged. They had a number of hours before AS "woke up" to find her hanging.

Pure conjecture I know...well that's my imagination as to what happened. :sleuth:

x_files
08-24-2011, 09:25 PM
:woohoo: Yes these are no dummies and that makes sense. IMO I don't think JS would call his brother. I have this sneaky feeling that the brother had something going with RN.

I feel the same perhaps JS thought Max's death was caused by negligence and thought R was fooling around or paying attention to Adam. Do we know what he looks like? Is he younger?
Ada would see R the first thing in the morning when he left his guest room.

defense101
08-24-2011, 09:31 PM
:takeabow: Lawgirl, you should have been a writer!

Lawgirl
08-24-2011, 09:39 PM
:takeabow: Lawgirl, you should have been a writer!

I just don't see DS getting to the house and undressing Rebecca and then tying her with electrical cords. It seems like a rather "strong man" thing to do. Plus, I would think JS would have found RN naked in bed before getting her out of bed to talk about this ...the naked thing has me leaning me towards JS rather than DS. At first, I thought it was the mother...it was DS. Now, my first suspect is JS.

I think the mom was completely broken at her son's bedside -- not wanting to miss a fraction of a second with him. I think JS is able to have a double edge mentality at the moment -- pain and anger -- are two emotions I could see a man like him experiencing.

As a successful business man, the first lesson is put your emotions aside.

Get where I'm going?? Of course, I could be completely and utterly wrong.

But what do I know...I'm just a 600 lb gorilla in the room. LOL!!!

scorekeeper
08-24-2011, 09:49 PM
:takeabow: Lawgirl, you should have been a writer!

Took the words right out of my mouth or great minds think alike!!!

Was gonna ask if she was a writer :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Lawgirl
08-24-2011, 09:56 PM
hahaha!!! Just a little passionate I guess. LOL:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

scorekeeper
08-24-2011, 10:01 PM
I feel the same perhaps JS thought Max's death was caused by negligence and thought R was fooling around or paying attention to Adam. Do we know what he looks like? Is he younger?
Ada would see R the first thing in the morning when he left his guest room.

AS did not arrive in Cali until after Maxie's accident. I can try to locate link if need be.......found it...:loser:

Yes, he is younger. There is a picture of him
at http://news.lalate.com/category/adam-shacknai/

near the bottom of the page...

time
08-24-2011, 10:05 PM
This is my take on the situation.

Maxxie is fatally hurt in that fall and this was known from the moment the paramedics got to the house. Apparently he had no pulse and there was no brain activity. Both parents knew that their son was gone, and they lost him. Day 1. Shock, pain, devastation...

Day. 2. Fury/unimaginable anger sets in. JS calls RN and tells her it is good idea to send the dog away (the seed of revenge is now planted) -- he's not necessarily upfront about Maxxie's condition because "she" doesn't even deserve to know the true situation. Maxxie's loss is so unimaginable that the words cannot even be spoken -- so GS thinks "prayers" will help and RN thinks she needs to be there for JS -- and will keep her family abreast of little Maxxie's condition. As if...no pulse means he will be alright eventually..but what does she know about these things. She probably does not want to admit the little boy is gone either.

JS comes home at some point. He goes to talk to his brother -- after all he came all the way from out of town to give him support -- and goes to the garage to get an electrical cord afterwards. He already has bad intentions -- he is devastated and angry. Maxxie meant the world to him.

JS demands to know what happened from RN and why did she allow this to happen when she was in charge of Maxxie. This is exactly what I picture myself doing...it's not really an explanation being sought...the deed is done and the damage cannot be undone. Nothign she says will make it right -- but he wants to "hear it from her mouth." Her answers sound pitiful to him -- almost a mockery. Nothing she tells him will console him or make it right. There is no excuse. He unleashes upon her the devastation he feels she unleashed upon him by not taking care of his little boy.

After the deed is done -- AS hears the commotion -- he hears the music -- he intervenes when it is too late. She is already dead. At this point, he does the only thing he could think of doing for his only brother ...which is to help him get out of this nightmare. JS and his brother plan what their next steps are going to be. Things were carefully thought out ... staged. They had a number of hours before AS "woke up" to find her hanging.

Pure conjecture I know...well that's my imagination as to what happened. :sleuth:

Very writery conjecture! ... I would add one thing, a big argument and lots of tension occurred at the hospital before a visit back at the mansion, unfortunately someone could have been primed for a rage.

Lawgirl
08-24-2011, 10:06 PM
In the midst of the tragedy that just occurred, who is thinking of sexuality? A little boy is lying on his deathbed. I don't think anyone is thinking of finding anyone else attractive. To me that is almost like saying: Rebecca is attractive, and Adam Shacknai is a man, therefore Rebecca and Adam are an item. It does not compute.

Lawgirl
08-24-2011, 10:08 PM
Very writery conjecture! ... I would add one thing, a big argument and lots of tension occurred at the hospital

I could see DS accusing JS and telling him this is all his fault for allowing that woman to take care of their little boy and I could see her telling him "she killed my baby!" I could see her saying "how could you allow this to happen...I trust you...and you let her kill my baby!"

Sometimes I feel like I am really in tune with people's emotions, and like I understand what they feel in certain situations. I put myself her in her shoes.

To me this was a crime of passion -- in the heat of pure rage and anger. 1 + 1 = 2.

arielilane
08-24-2011, 10:09 PM
What facts exactly are known to the public about Max's death?

I've followed this case from the beginning and initially LE said it was a tragic accident (fall from stair case) and then that the two cases were not seen as connected and then that they would be investigating Max's death.

I am not claiming I think it was an accident, nor the dog, nor anything specific. That's the point... I'm saying we don't know enough about what happened. But I do not see any evidence that states as fact that Rebecca was negligent. Why wouldn't Rebecca possibly have been cooking something or whatever. You seem to be setting an impossible standard on parents or so called 'caregivers' such as Rebecca. Interesting. That is what we need at this point (besides RZ's results) is Max's autopsy results. Are Max's autopsy results going to be released ever? Since he was a minor are those records sealed? What really did happen that day to Max? The results of his injuries will reveal that. What did he hit his head on to cause the brain damage?

Previously we heard he was sliding down the bannister and landed on the base of the stairs. What did he hit that would cause brain damage?

Lawgirl
08-24-2011, 10:11 PM
That is what we need at this point (besides RZ's results) is Max's autopsy results. Are Max's autopsy results going to be released ever? Since he was a minor are those records sealed? What really did happen that day to Max? The results of his injuries will reveal that. What did he hit his head on to cause the brain damage?

Previously we heard he was sliding down the bannister and landed on the base of the stairs. What did he hit that would cause brain damage?

Unfortunately there is quite a lot we don't know, and quite a lot that has been fabricated (such as her death is deemed a suicide by LE).

infobabe
08-24-2011, 10:14 PM
One good thing about the waiting and the silence from the police is that if it was murder staged as a suicide, the killer(s) have just as little info as the rest of us as to what the police are thinking and doing.

This could be a part of police strategy, too, to keep POIs off balance.

I could see the killer and any involved in a cover up getting anxious, maybe saying and doing things that would give them away, trying to manipulate the police.

MizStery
08-24-2011, 10:16 PM
This is my take on the situation.

Maxxie is fatally hurt in that fall and this was known from the moment the paramedics got to the house. Apparently he had no pulse and there was no brain activity. Both parents knew that their son was gone, and they lost him. Day 1. Shock, pain, devastation...

Day. 2. Fury/unimaginable anger sets in. JS calls RN and tells her it is good idea to send the dog away (the seed of revenge is now planted) -- he's not necessarily upfront about Maxxie's condition because "she" doesn't even deserve to know the true situation. Maxxie's loss is so unimaginable that the words cannot even be spoken -- so GS thinks "prayers" will help and RN
thinks she needs to be there for JS -- and will keep her family abreast of little Maxxie's c
ondition. As if...no pulse means he will be alright eventually..but
what does she know about these things. She probably does not want to admit
the little boy is gone either.

JS comes home at some point. He goes to talk to his brother -- after all he came all the way from out of town to give him support -- and goes to the garage to get an electrical cord afterwards. He already has bad intentions -- he is devastated and angry. Maxxie meant the
world to him. JS demands to know what happened from RN and why did she allow this to happen when swas in charge of Maxxie. This is exactly what I picture myself doing...it's not really an explanation being sought...the deed is done
and the damage cannot be undone. Nothign she says will make it right -- but he wants to "hear it from her mouth." Her answers sound pitiful to him --
almost a mockery. Nothing she tells him will console him or make it right.
There is no excuse. He unleashes upon her the devastation he feels she unleashed upon him by not taking care of his little boy. After the deed is done -- AS hears the commotion -- he hears the music -- he intervenes when it is too late. She is already dead. At this point, he
does the only thing he could think of doing for his only brother ...which is to help him get out of this nightmare. JS and his brother plan what their next steps are going to be. Things were carefully thought out ... staged. They had a number
of hours before AS "woke up" to find her hanging.

Pure conjecture I know...well that's my imagination as to what happened. :sleuth:

Law girl you are a great writer. I love Ann Rule I thought what if....?You could have a career writing. Anyhow the reason I clicked on AR name is she was a policewoman at one time. I thought perhaps the name law girl was a link. Any how great post. :rose:

jjenny
08-24-2011, 10:23 PM
That is what we need at this point (besides RZ's results) is Max's autopsy results. Are Max's autopsy results going to be released ever? Since he was a minor are those records sealed? What really did happen that day to Max? The results of his injuries will reveal that. What did he hit his head on to cause the brain damage?

Previously we heard he was sliding down the bannister and landed on the base of the stairs. What did he hit that would cause brain damage?

Well I think he could have broken his neck. If you don't land correctly it's not even necessary to fall a great distance to break a neck.

oceanblueeyes
08-24-2011, 10:24 PM
BBM

Ocean,

But we DO KNOW about JS and DS - both have a documented, violent past. And those are the documented fights we know about!!

Remember, DS probably just found out that her only child and tie to JS was gone.....poof

Back to saying that scene was too bizarre, violent for a suicide.....

But that doesn't mean either one of them exacted violence upon Rebecca though. That would be like saying that all who commits some level of domestic violence murders someone and that just isn't the truth..thank goodness.

Often a divorce can bring out negative emotions in people but once the divorce has past and settled they do not remain violent.

I don't think this death was bizarre if it is a suicide. I just read an article where a man committed suicide using a robot.

IMO

oceanblueeyes
08-24-2011, 10:30 PM
That is what we need at this point (besides RZ's results) is Max's autopsy results. Are Max's autopsy results going to be released ever? Since he was a minor are those records sealed? What really did happen that day to Max? The results of his injuries will reveal that. What did he hit his head on to cause the brain damage?

Previously we heard he was sliding down the bannister and landed on the base of the stairs. What did he hit that would cause brain damage?

I wouldnt think they would release his autopsy if they have ruled it an accident. It would be a private matter and be intrusive for his loved ones if it was released imo.

I do believe it was an accident and since he was unresponsive and not breathing when EMTs arrived I believe he was brain dead and I think all knew it including Rebecca.

IMO

arielilane
08-24-2011, 10:32 PM
Unfortunately there is quite a lot we don't know, and quite a lot that has been fabricated (such as her death is deemed a suicide by LE).
Yes, I get that.

arielilane
08-24-2011, 10:34 PM
Well I think he could have broken his neck. If you don't land correctly it's not even necessary to fall a great distance to break a neck.
Thanks, jjenny. What about the brain damage? Any thoughts?

oceanblueeyes
08-24-2011, 10:34 PM
I could see DS accusing JS and telling him this is all his fault for allowing that woman to take care of their little boy and I could see her telling him "she killed my baby!" I could see her saying "how could you allow this to happen...I trust you...and you let her kill my baby!"

Sometimes I feel like I am really in tune with people's emotions, and like I understand what they feel in certain situations. I put myself her in her shoes.

To me this was a crime of passion -- in the heat of pure rage and anger. 1 + 1 = 2.

I do think possibly those thoughts ran through Dina's mind. Maybe she did blame her but that doesn't mean she took extreme steps and killed her.

Maybe Rebecca felt both Dina and Jonah would never forgive her and she became so overwrought with despair this was her only way out of the hopelessness she felt.



IMO

Lawgirl
08-24-2011, 10:38 PM
If it turns out that JS is responsible, I see Medicis stock value spiraling down, a takeover by another company. Of course the PR firm is spinning like crazy -- it is their job to stop the wrong perception from affecting the company -- the stock market is guided by perceptions.

I will wait and see if this happens. Most importantly, I would like to see justice prevail.

I am willing to accept she committed suicide if we were given concrete proof. The fact that there are so many on this investigation and that it is taking this long leads me to conclude "suicide" is not going to be the verdict. It's too late for a suicide conclusion imo.

The fact that JS has not come out publicly and said word ONE about RN - not good nor bad - is not a comforting sign. He came out with passionate words about his child -- he said his loss was unimaginable to family, friends and the community. He has not said word ONE about RN.

Lawgirl
08-24-2011, 10:41 PM
I do think possibly those thoughts ran through Dina's mind. Maybe she did blame her but that doesn't mean she took extreme steps and killed her.

Maybe Rebecca felt both Dina and Jonah would never forgive her and she became so overwrought with despair this was her only way out of the hopelessness she felt.



IMO

I don't think DS did this to RN. I definitely and most certainly feel she blamed her though...absolutely. I don't think it was long enough for Rebecca to come to this conclusion just yet...the child was not even officially dead. Some people strongly believe in miracles -- some people pray hard for a miracle. Too soon...in my book. I could see after his death -- after it settles in -- what the true outcome is and how much she is blamed. On the second day, I think RN still wanted to participate in any way she could (and of cours she felt responsible), but maybe ever more so she wanted to be there and do whatever she could. Who would not love a sweet little thing like Maxxie??? Why wouldn't RN love this child? By the way, the one picture I saw of her holding Little Maxxie in her arms shows me great tenderness and a loving affection towards the little boy.

Lawgirl
08-24-2011, 10:46 PM
i wouldnt think they would release his autopsy if they have ruled it an accident. It would be a private matter and be intrusive for his loved ones if it was released imo.

I do believe it was an accident and since he was unresponsive and not breathing when emts arrived i believe he was brain dead and i think all knew it including rebecca.
imo


omg ..what horror. I can't even imagine. It is just so horrific. What a tragedy.

x_files
08-24-2011, 10:48 PM
In the midst of the tragedy that just occurred, who is thinking of sexuality? A little boy is lying on his deathbed. I don't think anyone is thinking of finding anyone else attractive. To me that is almost like saying: Rebecca is attractive, and Adam Shacknai is a man, therefore Rebecca and Adam are an item. It does not compute.

If Adam lived there previously. But, I just found out that he arrived after Max's accident. So, I doubt a love triangle or jealousy would be part of the equation now.
After I found out that Terri Horman was "sexting" a mutual friend of hers and her estranged husband while Kyron was missing, nothing seems that out of the realm of possibilities anymore. That would be the last thing on my mind, but I am not Terri who is quite possibly responsible for Kyron's disappearance and in my opinion a sex addict.
Just thinking out loud.
It does feel like a rage killing to me too.
Very strange case.

arielilane
08-24-2011, 10:49 PM
An old article. Dated 7/19/11:

Zahau was during home with another woman, whom authorities won’t identify, when Max fell down a stairs final Monday, Coronado Police Chief Louis Scanlon said. Paramedics found he wasn’t respirating and did not have a pulse. He was treated during Rady Children’s Hospital San Diego.
Scanlon called a boy’s tumble a “tragic accident.”
Ted Greenberg, owners of Camp Diggity Dog, pronounced Zahau called a Coronado cage final Monday, shortly after a boy’s fall, to ask that someone collect adult her 14-month-old Weimaraner, Ocean. She pronounced her child was hospitalized after an injury.
“She described it as her child,” he said.
Greenberg went to a home Tuesday.
“She was good on a phone on Monday and Tuesday she was quiet,” he said.
Shacknai’s brother, Adam, called 911 Wednesday to news a 32-year-old lady seemed to be dead, investigators said. The hermit was staying in a palace guesthouse. Jonah Shacknai was not during home.
http://getnews.us/2011/07/19/page/72/ (http://getnews.us/2011/07/19/page/72/)

Lawgirl
08-24-2011, 10:52 PM
I never had children but I agree with you, this I why if my husbands kids want their kids to come visit us wherever we are, unless a parent comes with the grand kids and nieces and nephews I won't have them. I won't take on that kind of responsibility for something happening to them on my watch.

It is the greatest of responsibility, and even more so because children can be rambuctious -- one cannot control every single thing they do or their need to explore. Good policy.

coastal
08-24-2011, 10:53 PM
This is my take on the situation.

Maxxie is fatally hurt in that fall and this was known from the moment the paramedics got to the house. Apparently he had no pulse and there was no brain activity. Both parents knew that their son was gone, and they lost him. Day 1. Shock, pain, devastation...

Day. 2. Fury/unimaginable anger sets in. JS calls RN and tells her it is good idea to send the dog away (the seed of revenge is now planted) -- he's not necessarily upfront about Maxxie's condition because "she" doesn't even deserve to know the true situation. Maxxie's loss is so unimaginable that the words cannot even be spoken -- so GS thinks "prayers" will help and RN thinks she needs to be there for JS -- and will keep her family abreast of little Maxxie's condition. As if...no pulse means he will be alright eventually..but what does she know about these things. She probably does not want to admit the little boy is gone either.

JS comes home at some point. He goes to talk to his brother -- after all he came all the way from out of town to give him support -- and goes to the garage to get an electrical cord afterwards. He already has bad intentions -- he is devastated and angry. Maxxie meant the world to him.

JS demands to know what happened from RN and why did she allow this to happen when she was in charge of Maxxie. This is exactly what I picture myself doing...it's not really an explanation being sought...the deed is done and the damage cannot be undone. Nothign she says will make it right -- but he wants to "hear it from her mouth." Her answers sound pitiful to him -- almost a mockery. Nothing she tells him will console him or make it right. There is no excuse. He unleashes upon her the devastation he feels she unleashed upon him by not taking care of his little boy.

After the deed is done -- AS hears the commotion -- he hears the music -- he intervenes when it is too late. She is already dead. At this point, he does the only thing he could think of doing for his only brother ...which is to help him get out of this nightmare. JS and his brother plan what their next steps are going to be. Things were carefully thought out ... staged. They had a number of hours before AS "woke up" to find her hanging.

Pure conjecture I know...well that's my imagination as to what happened. :sleuth:
This makes way more sense than anything else I've heard (or imagined); nicely done!
Just two little things: LE appears to believe that JS was keeping vigil at the bedside of his dying (or already technically dead) young son in a San Diego hospital while Rebecca was dying in Coronado, and, Rebecca's body should - would - display evidence of manual strangulation (or bullet wounds, or whatever method he used to kill her) that is inconsistent with a death by hanging, in which case surely somebody would have noticed that, and 'sources' would be leaking "murdered" headlines instead.

I think. Even so, your version gets my vote for most like real life.

scorekeeper
08-24-2011, 10:57 PM
If it turns out that JS is responsible, I see Medicis stock value spiraling down, a takeover by another company. Of course the PR firm is spinning like crazy -- it is their job to stop the wrong perception from affecting the company -- the stock market is guided by perceptions.

I will wait and see if this happens. Most importantly, I would like to see justice prevail.

I am willing to accept she committed suicide if we were given concrete proof. The fact that there are so many on this investigation and that it is taking this long leads me to conclude "suicide" is not going to be the verdict. It's too late for a suicide conclusion imo.

The fact that JS has not come out publicly and said word ONE about RN - not good nor bad - is not a comforting sign. He came out with passionate words about his child -- he said his loss was unimaginable to family, friends and the community. He has not said word ONE about RN.

BBM

Could LE be waiting to release the results of their investigation (JS alleged perp) until after the takeover? Has any more news of Medicis possible takeover?

Is that some type of deal that could be worked out between a well known defense attorney and the prosecutor?