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View Full Version : Found Deceased OH - Katelyn Markham, 22, Fairfield, 14 Aug 2011 - #2


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Salem
08-30-2011, 01:24 AM
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Thread 1

cluciano63
08-30-2011, 01:36 AM
I wonder if JC knocked or rang the bell at Katelyn's before using his key, since her car was there; he never said...just curious.

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 02:09 AM
People keep saying how stuff is so weird. It's actually got me thinking about how weird most of the stuff I do would probably seem to other people.

My phone is always dead or lost or I turn it off to get a good nights sleep. But I also use it as an alarm a lot of the time. smart phones have ****** battery life so if she forgot to plug it in, even if it was her alarm, but if she was going to work at 11, why need an alarm? (Also I thought I read she didn't show up for either job, so that sounds like maybe she had to work at the other one before DB?)

Also, sometimes people don't get my texts/photos for days or weeks. I had to switch carriers recently because it would be forever until someone got a text even if it said I had service. Photos take forever to send sometimes, even if you are in the same room as someone. And by forever, I mean hours, days, weeks, months.

Oh and I am pretty sure the gps is off only once the battery is taken out, even if the phone is off.

I used to always leave the house with out my id/purse. Just some money/cards in my pocket. Most of the time I would even forget my keys if I was walking somewhere.

I think the fact that he says he "didn't want it to go that far" is suspicious, that he doesn't want anyone to worry is odd too, but maybe he just feels the need to comfort others. Maybe the spot he is in, it's uncomfortable for him to focus on how bad he feels so he wants to help others feel better? When my mom died, it was easier to focus on how other people felt than deal with/show my grief. Or worrying about what my mom wanted for her funeral was easier than crying.

I also think that him going somewhere else before calling 911 (unless he left his cell at home and she didn't have a land line, most young people don't) is crazy strange. It seems like he was either cleaning up or disposing of something.

I didn't think the burning of the documents was weird until I saw her address is clearly visible on her website. Why would she be concerned (except maybe account numbers) about anything getting out if it's on the web already? Also I make my boyfriend do stupid **** for me all the time. Just because it's easier for him to do it. Hopefully the friend can rule him out or say it's not true.

The dog thing bothers me. My dogs (a 60 lb mutt and a 9.5 lb shih tzu) can both hold their bladder in their kennel for over 12 hours. (not something done on purpose, but i have had 12 hour class days and no one to let them out) If I leave the big one in a room with the door closed he will "anger ****" 5 times in as many minutes, all while tearing up the room. My shih tzu will hold her bladder for days in the winter time if I don't drag her outside. Although the passed two days, she pooed in the bedroom with out trying to wake me up, less than 8 hours after her last trip outside, even though she is 4 and very well trained. I'm not sure if the dog going to the bathroom could really be a good time line indicator.

The reason the dog thing bothers me is that my boyfriend of 4 years would never put my dogs up in a way that I wouldn't. He would kennel them, just like I would. Also, someone mentioned not wanting to bother the dog or let it sleep. I can't move with out either of my dogs knowing it and being immediately at my side, just in case they are about to get something good.

I just can't see someone who knew the dog, putting it up in a way that was not normal, unless it wouldn't go in the bathroom for them. If my dogs are not used to the person putting them away, they won't go in the kennel easily. It would be easier to shut them in a room, BUT I don't know if they would even allow that if I was knocked out/fighting/scared. The little one would bark and bark unless she was lunged at, then she might run into the room so the door could be closed. I know, not all dogs are like my dogs, but dog behavior is easier to predict than human behavior. If my dogs are used to the person putting them away (my boyfriend or his mom) they would go immediately, even before asked, just by what the person is doing, i.e. putting on shoes, grabbing car keys. Wouldn't the dog be used to John putting it away?

I don't think it's weird that he didn't stay the night that night (except as someone pointed out, if he was worried about the carnie folk.) My boyfriend and I lived together and sometimes one of us would stay at his mom's or sleep in a different room, just because. If we weren't living together, even if engaged/sleeping together, I know he wouldn't stay the night all the time. Who's to say they didn't have sex (hence the disheveled bed) and then he left? Sometimes you just want to spread out or have the house all to yourself.


It's a very odd case for sure. Someone mentioned that there was a gravel quarry that had been filled with water. That would be my guess if there is a body to look for.

As far as body language goes, it's more about seeing how the person acts when asked nuetral questions and then what changes when he is asked a direct question about the incident. If he is shaking his head no, it's only indicative of a lie if he is saying yes or something positive where it would make sense that he should be nodding (and vice versa). Touching his face could be a nervous tic, unless he only does it when he's answering a direct question. Does his tone of voice change, suddenly rise? Are his palms open and face up or tucked away? You have to look at the whole picture and not just clips. Also someone mentioned looking down and to a certain direction. I think it's actually up and the direction depends on what the dominant hand is. Does he answer a question with a question? The "to be honest" could be a vocal tic, like saying like or um. However, even though I do say, honestly quite a bit, when people say something like that they are most likely lying. Honestly, truthfully, etc. Because most people who are honest don't need to qualify it. I usually say honestly when someone asks me a direct question and I don't want to answer it honestly so I say it in away that is more asking. As in, Honestly? I'm not sure I like that dress. Although I really hate the dress. But again, if that's all that is indicating he's lying he probably isn't. Is he taking a very long time to answer or using stalling mechanisms? Body language is tricky and I found the only trick that for sure works is talking about something else completely/acting normal and then surprising the person with the question. That's when they really make mistakes, but you also can't say a word until they do after you ask the question. No matter how long it takes, if you talk first they will lie. Negotiators use that tactic, whoever talks first is always the one to lose. If he is on guard because he's being interviewed it would be really hard to see if he's lying. (I had a lying boyfriend once and studied this stuff like crazy. That one trick works every damn time. Especially because if they do hold out and don't say anything, well you know what you asked is true. Also the longer they wait to talk, the more likely they are going to lie.)

Ok, I think I'm finished.

Kiln Wood
08-30-2011, 02:15 AM
Welcome to WS, Baabaablacksheep!

Enjoyed reading your first post and look forward to many more!!

SchoolgirlShamus
08-30-2011, 02:24 AM
Copying and pasting, or taking screen caps, directly from [social networking] pages is not allowed. Paraphrasing is okay.

I'm so sorry, I've probably violated that rule. I assumed the very opposite would be true - that posting verbatim quotes would be preferable to paraphrasing. My apologies!

crocus
08-30-2011, 02:54 AM
People keep saying how stuff is so weird. It's actually got me thinking about how weird most of the stuff I do would probably seem to other people.

My phone is always dead or lost or I turn it off to get a good nights sleep. But I also use it as an alarm a lot of the time. smart phones have ****** battery life so if she forgot to plug it in, even if it was her alarm, but if she was going to work at 11, why need an alarm? (Also I thought I read she didn't show up for either job, so that sounds like maybe she had to work at the other one before DB?)

Also, sometimes people don't get my texts/photos for days or weeks. I had to switch carriers recently because it would be forever until someone got a text even if it said I had service. Photos take forever to send sometimes, even if you are in the same room as someone. And by forever, I mean hours, days, weeks, months.

Oh and I am pretty sure the gps is off only once the battery is taken out, even if the phone is off.

I used to always leave the house with out my id/purse. Just some money/cards in my pocket. Most of the time I would even forget my keys if I was walking somewhere.

I think the fact that he says he "didn't want it to go that far" is suspicious, that he doesn't want anyone to worry is odd too, but maybe he just feels the need to comfort others. Maybe the spot he is in, it's uncomfortable for him to focus on how bad he feels so he wants to help others feel better? When my mom died, it was easier to focus on how other people felt than deal with/show my grief. Or worrying about what my mom wanted for her funeral was easier than crying.

I also think that him going somewhere else before calling 911 (unless he left his cell at home and she didn't have a land line, most young people don't) is crazy strange. It seems like he was either cleaning up or disposing of something.

I didn't think the burning of the documents was weird until I saw her address is clearly visible on her website. Why would she be concerned (except maybe account numbers) about anything getting out if it's on the web already? Also I make my boyfriend do stupid **** for me all the time. Just because it's easier for him to do it. Hopefully the friend can rule him out or say it's not true.

The dog thing bothers me. My dogs (a 60 lb mutt and a 9.5 lb shih tzu) can both hold their bladder in their kennel for over 12 hours. (not something done on purpose, but i have had 12 hour class days and no one to let them out) If I leave the big one in a room with the door closed he will "anger ****" 5 times in as many minutes, all while tearing up the room. My shih tzu will hold her bladder for days in the winter time if I don't drag her outside. Although the passed two days, she pooed in the bedroom with out trying to wake me up, less than 8 hours after her last trip outside, even though she is 4 and very well trained. I'm not sure if the dog going to the bathroom could really be a good time line indicator.

The reason the dog thing bothers me is that my boyfriend of 4 years would never put my dogs up in a way that I wouldn't. He would kennel them, just like I would. Also, someone mentioned not wanting to bother the dog or let it sleep. I can't move with out either of my dogs knowing it and being immediately at my side, just in case they are about to get something good.

I just can't see someone who knew the dog, putting it up in a way that was not normal, unless it wouldn't go in the bathroom for them. If my dogs are not used to the person putting them away, they won't go in the kennel easily. It would be easier to shut them in a room, BUT I don't know if they would even allow that if I was knocked out/fighting/scared. The little one would bark and bark unless she was lunged at, then she might run into the room so the door could be closed. I know, not all dogs are like my dogs, but dog behavior is easier to predict than human behavior. If my dogs are used to the person putting them away (my boyfriend or his mom) they would go immediately, even before asked, just by what the person is doing, i.e. putting on shoes, grabbing car keys. Wouldn't the dog be used to John putting it away?

I don't think it's weird that he didn't stay the night that night (except as someone pointed out, if he was worried about the carnie folk.) My boyfriend and I lived together and sometimes one of us would stay at his mom's or sleep in a different room, just because. If we weren't living together, even if engaged/sleeping together, I know he wouldn't stay the night all the time. Who's to say they didn't have sex (hence the disheveled bed) and then he left? Sometimes you just want to spread out or have the house all to yourself.


It's a very odd case for sure. Someone mentioned that there was a gravel quarry that had been filled with water. That would be my guess if there is a body to look for.

As far as body language goes, it's more about seeing how the person acts when asked nuetral questions and then what changes when he is asked a direct question about the incident. If he is shaking his head no, it's only indicative of a lie if he is saying yes or something positive where it would make sense that he should be nodding (and vice versa). Touching his face could be a nervous tic, unless he only does it when he's answering a direct question. Does his tone of voice change, suddenly rise? Are his palms open and face up or tucked away? You have to look at the whole picture and not just clips. Also someone mentioned looking down and to a certain direction. I think it's actually up and the direction depends on what the dominant hand is. Does he answer a question with a question? The "to be honest" could be a vocal tic, like saying like or um. However, even though I do say, honestly quite a bit, when people say something like that they are most likely lying. Honestly, truthfully, etc. Because most people who are honest don't need to qualify it. I usually say honestly when someone asks me a direct question and I don't want to answer it honestly so I say it in away that is more asking. As in, Honestly? I'm not sure I like that dress. Although I really hate the dress. But again, if that's all that is indicating he's lying he probably isn't. Is he taking a very long time to answer or using stalling mechanisms? Body language is tricky and I found the only trick that for sure works is talking about something else completely/acting normal and then surprising the person with the question. That's when they really make mistakes, but you also can't say a word until they do after you ask the question. No matter how long it takes, if you talk first they will lie. Negotiators use that tactic, whoever talks first is always the one to lose. If he is on guard because he's being interviewed it would be really hard to see if he's lying. (I had a lying boyfriend once and studied this stuff like crazy. That one trick works every damn time. Especially because if they do hold out and don't say anything, well you know what you asked is true. Also the longer they wait to talk, the more likely they are going to lie.)

Ok, I think I'm finished.
Smart phones can "have ****** battery life" depending on your apps.

I have never had a lag time of days, week or months, sending or receiving texts or photos. Maybe several minutes, but, no more that.

You can enable or disable GPS on a phone with a click. IMO, most people are tech savvy with cell phones and know the ins and outs, no matter what make.

Dogs have distinct personalities just like humans. What works for one doesn't work for another. You just can't generalize.

cluciano63
08-30-2011, 02:58 AM
I am counting on LE having some very specific locales for TES to search, including doing the sonar thing with the rivers/lakes, etc...hope it is a large, thorough search with results, where LE can say that no, she is not in the area, or whatever...

Although the "rumor mill" (better known as FB) allows for various reasons she may have wanted to vanish for a while, I can't imagine people doing this to their loved ones (and pets.) I know people do it all the time, but I don't understand it. You can always go, just leave a note.

Not that I think Katelyn did this...I feel some harm has come to her. But if she is out there, I would hope she would let her father know, at least...

JMO

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 03:04 AM
Thanks Kiln Wood.

I would like to add about the dogs, the reason it seems strange about the kenneling, for those unfamiliar with seperation anxiety. It would be helpful to know if it was a shelter dog or bought at a pet store where dogs are in small cages all day or if it was directly from the mother. I have found that shelter dogs/pet store dogs have very similar issues, even if on different ends of the spectrum. They seem to have more of an issue with seperation anxiety and that's why they need to be kenneled/put in a room when one leaves. If that's the case, which I assume it is since the dog was normally put into a bathroom (not much for the dog to get into, easy to clean up messes) then she would not want the dog making a mess of the bedroom. The possibility of replacing the mattress alone...

Also, if John liked the dog would be good to know because if he did care about the dog, then putting it where it normally goes would be the loving thing to do. Putting it in a different room or "cave" would be added stress for the animal and also out of habit for him if he's used to putting the dog away. If he did do something to KM, that doesn't mean he wouldn't still act lovingly towards the dog. If he hated the dog, he might not care where he put it so much and it probably would not go easily into the bathroom for him.

Jesikah1
08-30-2011, 03:11 AM
Smart phones can "have ****** battery life" depending on your apps.

I have never had a lag time of days, week or months, sending or receiving texts or photos. Maybe several minutes, but, no more that.

You can enable or disable GPS on a phone with a click. IMO, most people are tech savvy with cell phones and know the ins and outs, no matter what make.

Dogs have distinct personalities just like humans. What works for one doesn't work for another. You just can't generalize.

BBM. I actually have had lag times that were longer than a few minutes, going into hours when sending / or receiving pictures. With texts, the problems seemed to be that they got stuck in the outbox. While this has not happened to me very frequently, it absolutely has happened.

Albeit this does not have much to do with the case, but I did want to confirm that a lag can occur even lengthy ones and may be dependent on a number of factors including random flukes.

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 03:11 AM
Smart phones can "have ****** battery life" depending on your apps.

I have never had a lag time of days, week or months, sending or receiving texts or photos. Maybe several minutes, but, no more that.

You can enable or disable GPS on a phone with a click. IMO, most people are tech savvy with cell phones and know the ins and outs, no matter what make.

Dogs have distinct personalities just like humans. What works for one doesn't work for another. You just can't generalize.

I actually didn't have any apps on that particular smart phone, just really bad service from t-mobile, which used to be very good where I used to live. The battery never lasted a full day. I've heard many people have long lag times for pictures. I'm kind of tech savvy, but considering how often cell phones are up dated, sometimes it does take me awhile to figure things out. Yes, you can enable the GPS on the apps, but I mean the ones with the cell towers. How the phones can be traced that way, sorry I wasn't clear. Even if you don't have a smart phone with gps the cell phone can usually be found as long as the battery is in it/working, I believe. Could be wrong, but you also can't generalize about people knowing all that stuff either or all phone battery life.

As far as dogs go, I've added another post about that before I saw your reply. Most people on here are generalizing about most things. If a dog is used to being kenneled/put in a specific room, it's habit and dogs are creatures of habits. Pavlov and all that.

JeannieC
08-30-2011, 03:35 AM
I actually didn't have any apps on that particular smart phone, just really bad service from t-mobile, which used to be very good where I used to live. The battery never lasted a full day. I've heard many people have long lag times for pictures. I'm kind of tech savvy, but considering how often cell phones are up dated, sometimes it does take me awhile to figure things out. Yes, you can enable the GPS on the apps, but I mean the ones with the cell towers. How the phones can be traced that way, sorry I wasn't clear. Even if you don't have a smart phone with gps the cell phone can usually be found as long as the battery is in it/working, I believe. Could be wrong, but you also can't generalize about people knowing all that stuff either or all phone battery life.

As far as dogs go, I've added another post about that before I saw your reply. Most people on here are generalizing about most things. If a dog is used to being kenneled/put in a specific room, it's habit and dogs are creatures of habits. Pavlov and all that.

You can disable the GPS on a phone which means you can't be tracked. However, the phone pings to towers as long as it is turned on so they can tell the nearest tower.

The pings are stronger and more frequent when you are using the phone. Other pings occur because of information the phone receives. ie: date and time. Updates to apps, etc.

I have had messages that "failed" and I didn't notice for several hours or a day and had to resend them. BAD carrier. I have also received some that were sent several hours before I received them.

This is always a problem with the carrier.

crocus
08-30-2011, 03:36 AM
Apps have nothing to do with enabling/disabling GPS. It can be found in settings. Apps wiil drain your battery, depending on how many and what kind you have. When I use a live wallpaper - my battery goes downhill fast.

As for dogs - lol - they are like children. They are ALL different.

JeannieC
08-30-2011, 03:37 AM
JC didn't ring a bell or knock. He used his key to get in. That was why he didn't know whether the door was locked or unlocked.

Interesting point. She had her home address listed online. Was that on her art website?
I had not noticed that.

crocus
08-30-2011, 03:45 AM
JC didn't ring a bell or knock. He used his key to get in. That was why he didn't know whether the door was locked or unlocked.

Interesting point. She had her home address listed online. Was that on her art website?
I had not noticed that.

Has it been said HOW they entered the condo? Dad first? Fiance' first? Used a key to enter or just turned the doorknob and walked in?

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 04:11 AM
JC didn't ring a bell or knock. He used his key to get in. That was why he didn't know whether the door was locked or unlocked.

Interesting point. She had her home address listed online. Was that on her art website?
I had not noticed that.

Yes it was. Not on the contact page, but on a portfolio page. Her email address is also listed, on her facebook page, as victimgirl.

I have seen a lot of shelter dogs with the same issues. And while all dogs are different, they are not that different, as in they do what they are trained to do, used to doing. Besides, as I pointed out, everyone else is generalizing about people and phones. How EVERYONE always has their cell phone and it's ALWAYS charged, ready to go. Why can't I speculate about the behavior of the dog? Especially when I've seen plenty of dogs, completely unrelated by anything, behave the same way? Most people think their dogs are different, but it's not really the case. If you have a dog, when you pick up it's leash, does it usually react like it's going to go out? If you have a dog and you rattle the snack bag, does it come running? Does it like to go to the same spot to lay down or the same few spots? Does your dog come when called by it's name? It doesn't understand that that's it's name, it just understands that when it hears that sound you want it to come to you. Maybe your dog is a little simple minded, maybe her's was too, maybe my dogs are just rock star kinds of dogs, but it doesn't hurt to check it out. Especially if there's nothing else to look at. All you have to do is check to see what his relationship is like with the dog. Easy to do.

People on here and facebook assume it's must be the boyfriend just because it is usually the boyfriend. Okay, well dogs are usually creatures of habit. Dogs have personalities, but that doesn't mean they don't behave similarly in certain situations. The reason dogs like to be kenneled is because it represents a cave. Not just to random dogs, but to all dogs. Just like your house is not easily interchangeable with your neighbors (your stuff/your smell) a dog wants a specific "cave" to feel safe. It's his home. But the dog needs to be trained for it as well. If the dog is trained for a certain room or kennel, well it will do what it's trained to do. Perhaps you just aren't familiar with Pavlov and his dogs.

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 04:47 AM
Smart phones can "have ****** battery life" depending on your apps.



Also, what does it matter why her phone may have had a low battery life? All I said was that it happens so someone turning off her phone/gps could have been that.

I did not LOL at anyone else's comments nor did I say they couldn't suggest what they wanted to, so I would appreciate the same respect. Thank you.

Redgoblin
08-30-2011, 06:26 AM
I don't know if someone else has already mentioned this about the picture of her that was sent to JC's phone.

If JC was out of the cell tower range or somewhere underground or in a tunnel he wouldn't of been able to pick up this picture at the approx time her phone sent it because of the lack of signal - assuming it was her that sent it in the first place?

I wonder if LE have looked at areas where signal coverage is weak and conducted searches in those locations?

~n/t~
08-30-2011, 06:44 AM
Thoughts and prayers going out to TES today as they search for Katelyn.

ShouldBWorking
08-30-2011, 06:47 AM
I couldn't cut and paste because the other thread has been locked, about her mother. I have a friend who knows the dad and that side of the family, she was at every search that was organized by LE and the mom was never there. I ask her some questions last night thru an email will let you know what she says.

Baabaablacksheepwelcome and thanks for the great post.

SurfieTX
08-30-2011, 08:09 AM
Officials with CrimeStoppers say Markham's family and friends have added $20,000 to the previous $5,000 in reward money that came earlier from an anonymous donor.

http://www.fox19.com/story/15357050/reward-for-information-on-katelyn-markham-increased-to-25k

Ronso
08-30-2011, 08:27 AM
I'll put my two cents in on the dog thing, because I have 20 years experience raising and training dogs...

Not all dogs like kennels. Some might like a cage but not a vari-kennel. Some might like the vari-kennel but not the cage. Some might not like either, and some may not give a crap. When I hear, ALL DOGS LOVE CRATES, I scratch my head. It's not so simple and it's just not true. Especially when you factor in how the cage/crate was used (positively or as a punishment).. but I have had dogs that just DID NOT LIKE THEM. I own/show/raise Cane Corsos, and I can tell you that 75% of the Corsos I've had will bust out of a crate. They simply do not like them. Now you could probably find someone who's had a lot of Corsos tell you the opposite, but really, it all depends on the dog.

I locked my one Corso ***** up in the bedroom when I left. It was the ONE room she wouldn't get into anything or destroy something... or even potty. I could leave her there for hours. If I put her in a crate, she found a way to bust out of it, and don't even ask me how many cages she's mangled!

Some dogs get bad separation anxiety when locked in a cage as their owner leaves, more so than if they have an entire room to themselves. It's quite possible whenever she left or went outside for a short period that she would leave the dog shut in her room. I really don't find that odd behavior at all, because I've done the same with mine.

As for where the dog was locked up, I could see someone in the moment, having just done something to KM, just rushing in and putting the dog somewhere and going. Even JC. Especially if it was barking, just put it in the closest room and shut the door. So right now, the location of the dog isn't bothering me in the slightest.

Also could it be the dog was sleeping on the bed with her the reason it was shut in her room? She gets up but the dog stays laying on the bed (mine rarely get up unless I am up for more than a few minutes) and she just shuts the door behind her?

Patience
08-30-2011, 08:35 AM
My Newfoundland who is almost a year old will bust out of his crate then let my Jack Russell out of his. My Jack loves his crate but my newf, no way, panic, stress, escape at no cost. He is just fine if he is free to home the house.

ShouldBWorking
08-30-2011, 08:37 AM
As far as dogs go, if we have a conversation with raised voices at our house we have to put the dog "up" because she goes crazy, if we play fight or wrestle she has to be put up because someone is going to get bit.....I still think KM knew who was at the door and knew "why" they were there she didn't want the dog getting "excited" about company she closed the dog in her room to answer the door and she never made it back to the room, I use to have a boyfriend when I was young that lived nearby and when he pulled into my apartment (with back parking just like hers) he would flash his lights and I would see that flash and come let him in, my room mates bedroom was in the front of the apartment and that way he didn't have to knock...we will probably never know.

ShouldBWorking
08-30-2011, 08:38 AM
My Newfoundland who is almost a year old will bust out of his crate then let my Jack Russell out of his. My Jack loves his crate but my newf, no way, panic, stress, escape at no cost. He is just fine if he is free to home the house.

My favorite breed Newfoundland, my gma had them such gentle giants!

SuziQ
08-30-2011, 09:23 AM
FWIW, the only time I have had messages sent/recd that were delayed on my Red Bberry, was if me or the other party was traveling cross country and out of cellphone range for a bit. Also, Bberry's are one of the last smartphones that you can use without signing up for an internet service. We like having our keyboards for texting without having to pay high internet fees.

terracotta
08-30-2011, 09:58 AM
I believe there is an importance to where the dog was. As JC said in the interviews. She always put the dog in the bathroom, where the dog had a bed, water and food. So she didn't leave her home intentionally expecting to be gone for a certain amount of time. So she either shut the dog in the bedroom, expecting to be right back, someone else shut the dog in there or she shut the dog in there to put him away while a visitor was there.

pynkphysh
08-30-2011, 10:11 AM
With zero evidence and information coming forward, no tips coming into the crimestoppers line, this is striking me as a very organized crime. If she opened the door, it would be to someone she knew (friend, family, coworker, peer, etc.) or someone that didn't seem dangerous (maybe looking like they needed help) or some other means of tricking her outside.

Shelby1
08-30-2011, 10:15 AM
I wonder if there would be anything on police scanners in the area regarding the TES search?

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 11:12 AM
I'll put my two cents in on the dog thing, because I have 20 years experience raising and training dogs...

Not all dogs like kennels. Some might like a cage but not a vari-kennel. Some might like the vari-kennel but not the cage. Some might not like either, and some may not give a crap. When I hear, ALL DOGS LOVE CRATES, I scratch my head. It's not so simple and it's just not true. Especially when you factor in how the cage/crate was used (positively or as a punishment).. but I have had dogs that just DID NOT LIKE THEM. I own/show/raise Cane Corsos, and I can tell you that 75% of the Corsos I've had will bust out of a crate. They simply do not like them. Now you could probably find someone who's had a lot of Corsos tell you the opposite, but really, it all depends on the dog.

I locked my one Corso ***** up in the bedroom when I left. It was the ONE room she wouldn't get into anything or destroy something... or even potty. I could leave her there for hours. If I put her in a crate, she found a way to bust out of it, and don't even ask me how many cages she's mangled!

Some dogs get bad separation anxiety when locked in a cage as their owner leaves, more so than if they have an entire room to themselves. It's quite possible whenever she left or went outside for a short period that she would leave the dog shut in her room. I really don't find that odd behavior at all, because I've done the same with mine.

As for where the dog was locked up, I could see someone in the moment, having just done something to KM, just rushing in and putting the dog somewhere and going. Even JC. Especially if it was barking, just put it in the closest room and shut the door. So right now, the location of the dog isn't bothering me in the slightest.

Also could it be the dog was sleeping on the bed with her the reason it was shut in her room? She gets up but the dog stays laying on the bed (mine rarely get up unless I am up for more than a few minutes) and she just shuts the door behind her?

I never once said all dogs love crates. What I said was, dogs will do what they are trained/used to doing. I also said dogs need to be trained for the kennel. I use kennel and crates interchangeably because to me, it's the same thing. I also, in this case, use the room the dog is used to going into and kennel interchangeably because, again, same concept. It has been stated as someone else said, that the dog is usually put in the bathroom. That is what makes me think it was either someone who didn't know the dog's routine or the dog did not trust the person enough to be locked in the bathroom, but it was perhaps chased/maneuvered into the bedroom. That could be John, that could be a complete stranger, or anyone in between.

I also very specifically said that it would be good to know if the dog was from a shelter/puppy store, or from a breeder/the mom. That does make a huge difference, as I've experienced, whether or not a dog needs a crate/likes them. I am assuming her dog needs to be put in a room because it has been stated she always put the dog in the bathroom. I have seen plenty of dogs that don't need a kennel at all, but it has been implied this one needed to be put put up.

Have you only trained one breed of dog? Were they all your dogs because it implies you train other dogs by 20 years of experience in dog training? If that is the case I have over 10 years training my own dogs (various mutts and shelter dogs as well as a couple of pure breds) and helping friends/family kennel train their different dogs. I also don't think that makes me an expert on all dogs, I was just making on observation about what I have read about her dog. I have also seen shelter dogs who don't need a kennel, although in my experience it's rare and they usually are in a home with other well-behaved dogs to show them how to behave.

I never even said I thought that was definitely the case, just something to look at if there was no other leads/it bothered me.

If the dog was sleeping then why even close the door, especially if it was John knocking or coming back? Maybe she did lock the dog in the bedroom to go for a walk, but that would be out of character for her since she normally locked the dog in the bathroom. Maybe John came in, she left the room, the dog stayed and John casually closed it in. But neither of those scenarios really make me think the dog being in the bedroom is any less strange. He would only close it in if he were planning on doing something to her.

ShouldBWorking
08-30-2011, 11:23 AM
I just went and ran errands and I must say EVERYWHERE you go people are talking about this case and I have to say each person I talked to today had the same person in their mind as a suspect BUT one sweet lady at the grocery made a VERY good point. IF this was someone who knew her and that person knew he was going to be the last person to see her and this was as well planned as it looks like it was WHY didn't that person take the dog and make it look like something happened to her and she maybe had taken the dog out for a walk. I must say this little lady sure has me thinking a little different.

terracotta
08-30-2011, 11:32 AM
I just went and ran errands and I must say EVERYWHERE you go people are talking about this case and I have to say each person I talked to today had the same person in their mind as a suspect BUT one sweet lady at the grocery made a VERY good point. IF this was someone who knew her and that person knew he was going to be the last person to see her and this was as well planned as it looks like it was WHY didn't that person take the dog and make it look like something happened to her and she maybe had taken the dog out for a walk. I must say this little lady sure has me thinking a little different.

I can imagine that it is the number one topic on everyone's minds. It hits everyone, a very scary thing to have someone just "vanish". Glad we have you there letting us know the vibe of what is going on :)

About the dog, JC did say that there were a couple things disturbed in her room and he discounted them as the dog could have done it. The pencil jar knocked over by the window and the hats knocked off her bedpost. That still could have signaled a struggle and that she was overtaken very quickly. Just a thought.

SurfieTX
08-30-2011, 11:44 AM
I just went and ran errands and I must say EVERYWHERE you go people are talking about this case and I have to say each person I talked to today had the same person in their mind as a suspect BUT one sweet lady at the grocery made a VERY good point. IF this was someone who knew her and that person knew he was going to be the last person to see her and this was as well planned as it looks like it was WHY didn't that person take the dog and make it look like something happened to her and she maybe had taken the dog out for a walk. I must say this little lady sure has me thinking a little different.

Ala Scott Peterson. I'm stumped. Nothing about this makes any sense.

SurfieTX
08-30-2011, 11:46 AM
One thing: If it was JC's habit to thrust the key in the door w/o thinking, that indicates to me that she kept the door locked 24/7.

sreshowtime
08-30-2011, 11:59 AM
I just went and ran errands and I must say EVERYWHERE you go people are talking about this case and I have to say each person I talked to today had the same person in their mind as a suspect BUT one sweet lady at the grocery made a VERY good point. IF this was someone who knew her and that person knew he was going to be the last person to see her and this was as well planned as it looks like it was WHY didn't that person take the dog and make it look like something happened to her and she maybe had taken the dog out for a walk. I must say this little lady sure has me thinking a little different.

maybe because they didn't want to have to fool with the dog...
better to let it stay/ put it in her room...and maybe that someone wanted to deviate from where KM would normally leave the dog for an extended length of time?

Either KM left the dog in her room at some point & closed the door to go downstairs or where ever, thinking she would be back soon
OR someone put the dog in the room, not knowing the bath was the normal spot (IF that is indeed the truth) ...or someone knew the routine and wanted to break from it.
If the dog had been found in its normal place to stay when KM went to work, then that would make me think she disappeared around the time she would be leaving for work, or had left to go to work.
But we don't know that she actually attempted to go to work
:banghead:

eta- and nothing was ever said that I am aware of, of what she may have been wearing

JeannieC
08-30-2011, 12:08 PM
With zero evidence and information coming forward, no tips coming into the crimestoppers line, this is striking me as a very organized crime. If she opened the door, it would be to someone she knew (friend, family, coworker, peer, etc.) or someone that didn't seem dangerous (maybe looking like they needed help) or some other means of tricking her outside.

Do we know there are no tips coming in or are we assuming that because LE isn't saying anything? I haven't heard one way or another so I'm just asking.
Thanks

SurfieTX
08-30-2011, 12:10 PM
Do we know there are no tips coming in or are we assuming that because LE isn't saying anything? I haven't heard one way or another so I'm just asking.
Thanks

It's been reported in the last few recent articles that no tips are coming in to Crimestoppers.

Ronso
08-30-2011, 12:10 PM
I could see why a perp wouldn't take a dog with them. You don't know how friendly the dog is, and the dog could be recognized somewhere else. Or, you just lure someone away enough that they'll shut the dog in a room. I still would not be surprised if someone knocked on the door while she was laying in bed, and she simply left the dog in the bedroom and shut the door behind her thinking she would be right back. I grab my phone as a matter of habit when I get up, whether I'm actually going somewhere or not. Even if I think I'm just going to make a trip to the fridge for a late snack, I take my phone with me. KM could've been the same way.

Baa- as for the breeds of dogs I've owned/trained... it's been anywhere from Miniature Schnauzers to Great Danes to Cane Corsos. I currently own Corsos and a Bouvier also. I don't typically deal with mutts because I'm not a rescuer/adopter. I typically only am hands on with purebreds, since ATM I mostly handle dogs at AKC shows.

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 12:15 PM
I just went and ran errands and I must say EVERYWHERE you go people are talking about this case and I have to say each person I talked to today had the same person in their mind as a suspect BUT one sweet lady at the grocery made a VERY good point. IF this was someone who knew her and that person knew he was going to be the last person to see her and this was as well planned as it looks like it was WHY didn't that person take the dog and make it look like something happened to her and she maybe had taken the dog out for a walk. I must say this little lady sure has me thinking a little different.

They liked the dog or the dog was making to much ruckus and they wanted out fast and with as little noise as possible following them. A dog barking like crazy in a room would distract from the door the person was being taken out.
On another note not related to your post - just tossing this in the mix.
Also, if a dog is stressed out majorly they often will loose potty training skills in fear and anxiety. (Not all, there is no 100% ever)

I can imagine that it is the number one topic on everyone's minds. It hits everyone, a very scary thing to have someone just "vanish". Glad we have you there letting us know the vibe of what is going on :)

About the dog, JC did say that there were a couple things disturbed in her room and he discounted them as the dog could have done it. The pencil jar knocked over by the window and the hats knocked off her bedpost. That still could have signaled a struggle and that she was overtaken very quickly. Just a thought.

Yes, if JC is telling us the truth and is not the one responsible, then it is possible the person was in her apartment the entire time (hidden in closet or in attic) and was just waiting for him to leave. Her and dog fall asleep and he pounces and again, dog barking distracts from him taking her out back door or front door and any car driving away. Hard to hear anything when you have a dog in full blown owner protect mode, IMHO.

******
Didn't JC say KM never wore hoop ear-rings?
Here is a pic outside the townhouse with huge hoops.
http://www.myspace.com/sublimeapc/photos/2373761#{%22ImageId%22%3A55160116} (http://www.myspace.com/sublimeapc/photos/2373761#%7B%22ImageId%22%3A55160116%7D)

JeannieC
08-30-2011, 12:22 PM
I wonder if any of the neighbors heard the dog barking.

Joe Friday
08-30-2011, 12:25 PM
Since you are all talking about the dog I thought I might as well throw up a picture of what I think is her dog. I think a dog this big would be able to knock off the hats and knock over the pencils or what ever else was disturbed in the room. Especially if left alone for some time. This dog most likely caused the damage to the blinds on the door also. I have a hunch this dog might have gone somewhat crazy when people came to the house and that might have been why KM left the dog in the bedroom when she might have answered the door if someone knocked on it while she was sleeping.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/163855_196697180344661_100000131426808_858617_7758 08_n.jpg


My personal gut feeling is that while she was sleeping with the dog in bed someone either knocked on the door or called KM. She then closed the bedroom door behind her, locking the dog inside the bedroom while she answered the door. This person might have called KM as she slept and asked her to come to their apartment too. This might explain why her phone is missing and a lack of a struggle. This person was likely a neighbor that lived in the same building or close by in the same neighborhood and might of been someone she knew as an acquaintance. I also think it would have been someone that knew KM was staying in the condo or apartment alone that night since her father was said to usually stay there with her. I don't think this was a random case of someone knocking on door looking to abduct someone or someone that entered her apartment and took her.

I'm not convinced JC is responsible for her disappearance just yet. This case parallels Lauren Giddings case in a lot of ways as far as things being left behind.

JMO

ETA: I think the dogs name is Bosstin

sreshowtime
08-30-2011, 12:36 PM
hmm I thought I saw a pic of a beagle looking dog some where...now where did I see that??

well I thought I did, never mind:) I did see that Bosstin on her deviantart pics

OOPs I did find a beagle on there, Murphy...pg 21

AHha! a pic of Bosstin refers to him as Johns dog

SO is Murphy the beagle the dog left in the room??

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 12:38 PM
Yes it was. Not on the contact page, but on a portfolio page. Her email address is also listed, on her facebook page, as victimgirl.

Snip to address above name victimgirl.


Just looking around some myspace pages I found and found this interesting:

(Old but interesting)
http://www.myspace.com/sublimeapc/blog
"Hello I am Katelyn and have been with John for over a year now..
And I really really like it and our relationsjip.
And when he moves out to college.. It will be tough super tough. I dont want to be here all by myself with all these others hatering meselfist.
?
Yea. But we will make it. But I wont get hiigh taht often I bet. And I wont hve sex that often I know! And Ill spell things even worse I bet.
But then again thats how I first met him! Well, talked. On the internet! He made me so giggly and I nicknamed him Monster and he dubed me Victim. And it is good." <-----more at link, but for the naming as victim was my point in posting this here. Also, didn't know they 'met' on internet if this was indeed written by her.

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 12:40 PM
hmm I thought I saw a pic of a beagle looking dog some where...now where did I see that??

This pic???
http://www.myspace.com/sublimeapc/photos/59066799#{%22ImageId%22%3A59066799} (http://www.myspace.com/sublimeapc/photos/59066799#%7B%22ImageId%22%3A59066799%7D)

cluciano63
08-30-2011, 12:53 PM
If a young woman opens her door after midnight, it seems like there should be a phone call just before to tell her, "hey I'm here" or "answer your door" because who would expect her to just go and open her door in the middle of the night? I sure wouldn't...the few times someone has come to my door at night, I just ignore it, if I am not expecting anyone. I am not that young though...would any of you younger women open up your door without knowing who it was, for sure?

terracotta
08-30-2011, 01:01 PM
Just looking around some myspace pages I found and found this interesting:

(Old but interesting)
http://www.myspace.com/sublimeapc/blog
"Hello I am Katelyn and have been with John for over a year now..
And I really really like it and our relationsjip.
And when he moves out to college.. It will be tough super tough. I dont want to be here all by myself with all these others hatering meselfist.
?
Yea. But we will make it. But I wont get hiigh taht often I bet. And I wont hve sex that often I know! And Ill spell things even worse I bet.
But then again thats how I first met him! Well, talked. On the internet! He made me so giggly and I nicknamed him Monster and he dubed me Victim. And it is good." <-----more at link, but for the naming as victim was my point in posting this here. Also, didn't know they 'met' on internet if this was indeed written by her.

JC's sister said they met through her. She was friends with KM and one day she said to her brother to come and meet my friend....and they were together and best friends every since....

sreshowtime
08-30-2011, 01:02 PM
Hey A News Junkie- was 'victim' part of an email addy for her?? I have seen this 'victim' somewhere else too!
Monster and victim..hmm
Yeah I thought JC sister said she introduced them back when---maybe they wound up talking online too??

Here is the beagle dog I found-http://lemmegetkh.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=480#/dwfi7p

and the boston- http://lemmegetkh.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=480#/dw4v95


OKAY i got to stop this chasing stuff- found a reference on that site http://www.myspace.com/sublimeapc/blog that AJ poster, that she missed Murphy

SO what dog did she have?????? No that it matters per se, but driving me binkers now:)

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 01:23 PM
Hey A News Junkie- was 'victim' part of an email addy for her?? I have seen this 'victim' somewhere else too!
Monster and victim..hmm
Yeah I thought JC sister said she introduced them back when---maybe they wound up talking online too??

Here is the beagle dog I found-http://lemmegetkh.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=480#/dwfi7p

and the boston- http://lemmegetkh.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=480#/dw4v95


OKAY i got to stop this chasing stuff- found a reference on that site http://www.myspace.com/sublimeapc/blog that AJ poster, that she missed Murphy

SO what dog did she have?????? No that it matters per se, but driving me binkers now:)

I had not seen that but baaaahbahblacksheep (spelling!LOL) posted that and in my snooping I saw that and linked it for what it is worth. I took it from the post that 'victimgirl' @something dot com was the email and that person had access to that. Maybe baaabaaaa will confirm.

ShouldBWorking
08-30-2011, 01:27 PM
If a young woman opens her door after midnight, it seems like there should be a phone call just before to tell her, "hey I'm here" or "answer your door" because who would expect her to just go and open her door in the middle of the night? I sure wouldn't...the few times someone has come to my door at night, I just ignore it, if I am not expecting anyone. I am not that young though...would any of you younger women open up your door without knowing who it was, for sure?

I'm an old lady but I just asked my almost 24 year old daughter who then asked the young ladies she works with and I heard a lot of "hell no"!

JeannieC
08-30-2011, 01:27 PM
Hey A News Junkie- was 'victim' part of an email addy for her?? I have seen this 'victim' somewhere else too!
Monster and victim..hmm
Yeah I thought JC sister said she introduced them back when---maybe they wound up talking online too??

Here is the beagle dog I found-http://lemmegetkh.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=480#/dwfi7p

and the boston- http://lemmegetkh.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=480#/dw4v95


OKAY i got to stop this chasing stuff- found a reference on that site http://www.myspace.com/sublimeapc/blog that AJ poster, that she missed Murphy

SO what dog did she have?????? No that it matters per se, but driving me binkers now:)

Someone told what kind of dog she had on the previous thread. It wasnt' a Bostian or a beagle. I don't remember what kind it was but I think it was a small furry little dog.

cluciano63
08-30-2011, 01:33 PM
I am guessing that with TES, they usually spend the first day talking with LE and organizing searchers...they usually do not begin the actual search until the next day. But if they are there to search bodies of water, maybe that would take place today.

CN2Souls
08-30-2011, 01:35 PM
Hey A_News_Junkie, :hug:,

seeing how you are so Fantastic with pictures, and video,

Could you see if there is anywhere that shows her front door?

Reason: I would think there would be a Peephole in which should would have at least checked before opening the door.

I know a 280 lb 6' 5" weight lifter, that would never open the door after midnight, without first looking in the peephole.

voxrock2000
08-30-2011, 01:40 PM
Who reported that the dog was locked in the bedroom? Who opened the door to the bedroom and let the dog out? Just because that is where the dog relieved itself doesn't mean that is the only room it had access to, it had to go somewhere. MAybe that is the room it spent most of its time in anyway. The 'crimescene' was disturbed from the moment JC 'unlocked' the door. How can you say anything there is pristine and has not been altered?

Kamille
08-30-2011, 01:41 PM
I believe I read somewhere and I'm sorry I can't recall at the moment, that the dog locked in the bedroom was Murphy. It appears she and/or her Dad have had that dog for some time because she does mention missing Murphy in a blog around the time that it appeared the parent's were splitting and she was moving in with her Dad. Of course this could also mean that Murphy had passed and she did have a new dog.

I've also seen reference to the condo being "Katelyn's" condo so I'm not sure how that works. Did she move out and her Dad moved in with her when he split with the mother?

I also wondered how much stuff her Dad had moved out of the condo. Since she was supposed to be moving in with JC's family in two weeks, how much furniture was still in the condo if her Dad had been moving stuff out. They were supposedly watching television on Saturday night but where were they watching it? Was there still livingroom furniture in the condo? Did Katelyn own furniture other than what was in her bedroom? Was her Dad officially moved out at this point since he obviously wasn't around all day Sunday either?

Good point about the dog possibly knocking things over in her room but also the possibility that this could indicate a small struggle in which she was overcome. If the dog was stessed in the room, I could see it doing a lot of damage but apparently it didn't. Why have LE never brought in the forensics unit to the home?

Her direct next door neighbour, the only one whose unit is attached to hers, was interviewed for the first media report and he didn't mention anything about a dog barking or anything unusual...well at least to the media person.

Next-door neighbor Brad Mills was just as surprised. He said the Markham family has lived in the area for about five years.

"She seemed responsible. She'd just come and go. There was never a disturbance. Never had any issues," Mills said.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/28872758/detail.html

Regarding the cell phone and delay time for texts, I noticed that the phone number on her website is with Cingular wireless....part of AT&T I believe. There is an AT&T tower quite close to her home so she should have been receiving pretty good service if that is in fact still her phone number and carrier. The lag time would have been at the other end I would think.

MOO

illinialum
08-30-2011, 02:08 PM
If a young woman opens her door after midnight, it seems like there should be a phone call just before to tell her, "hey I'm here" or "answer your door" because who would expect her to just go and open her door in the middle of the night? I sure wouldn't...the few times someone has come to my door at night, I just ignore it, if I am not expecting anyone. I am not that young though...would any of you younger women open up your door without knowing who it was, for sure?

I'm 23, and like ShouldBWorking's (?I think you were the one) daughter said, "Hell no!" But I'm pretty paranoid about safety.

If someone knocked on my door unexpectedly in the middle of the night, it would freak me out. But I wouldn't ignore it; I'd sneak to my peephole and see who it was. If it was someone I knew well, I'd answer cautiously. If not, I'd call the cops if it seemed the person was behaving suspicious.

I was an RA for three years at my university, and I would often get knocks in the middle of the night. Those knocks were never good news, so maybe that's why I'm more skittish now.

Having been an RA, I've worked with many girls around KM's age. While some had fairly unsafe habits ... leaving their doors unlocked, walking home drunk alone from bars, etc., I really don't think they would just open their door in the middle of the night to a stranger, unless they were expecting someone. They would look through the peephole first.

Just my 2 cents! :)

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 02:09 PM
Hey A_News_Junkie, :hug:,

seeing how you are so Fantastic with pictures, and video,

Could you see if there is anywhere that shows her front door?

Reason: I would think there would be a Peephole in which should would have at least checked before opening the door.

I know a 280 lb 6' 5" weight lifter, that would never open the door after midnight, without first looking in the peephole.

I will see what I can do. First I gotta find a front door video or pic - anyone know where one is handy?

Columbo
08-30-2011, 02:10 PM
Since you are all talking about the dog I thought I might as well throw up a picture of what I think is her dog. I think a dog this big would be able to knock off the hats and knock over the pencils or what ever else was disturbed in the room. Especially if left alone for some time. This dog most likely caused the damage to the blinds on the door also. I have a hunch this dog might have gone somewhat crazy when people came to the house and that might have been why KM left the dog in the bedroom when she might have answered the door if someone knocked on it while she was sleeping.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/163855_196697180344661_100000131426808_858617_7758 08_n.jpg


My personal gut feeling is that while she was sleeping with the dog in bed someone either knocked on the door or called KM. She then closed the bedroom door behind her, locking the dog inside the bedroom while she answered the door. This person might have called KM as she slept and asked her to come to their apartment too. This might explain why her phone is missing and a lack of a struggle. This person was likely a neighbor that lived in the same building or close by in the same neighborhood and might of been someone she knew as an acquaintance. I also think it would have been someone that knew KM was staying in the condo or apartment alone that night since her father was said to usually stay there with her. I don't think this was a random case of someone knocking on door looking to abduct someone or someone that entered her apartment and took her.

I'm not convinced JC is responsible for her disappearance just yet. This case parallels Lauren Giddings case in a lot of ways as far as things being left behind.

JMO

ETA: I think the dogs name is Bosstin

The guy in that picture looks a lot like JC--is it him, with her cat and dog?

Kamille
08-30-2011, 02:17 PM
I'm 23, and like ShouldBWorking's (?I think you were the one) daughter said, "Hell no!" But I'm pretty paranoid about safety.

If someone knocked on my door unexpectedly in the middle of the night, it would freak me out. But I wouldn't ignore it; I'd sneak to my peephole and see who it was. If it was someone I knew well, I'd answer cautiously. If not, I'd call the cops if it seemed the person was behaving suspicious.

I was an RA for three years at my university, and I would often get knocks in the middle of the night. Those knocks were never good news, so maybe that's why I'm more skittish now.

Having been an RA, I've worked with many girls around KM's age. While some had fairly unsafe habits ... leaving their doors unlocked, walking home drunk alone from bars, etc., I really don't think they would just open their door in the middle of the night to a stranger, unless they were expecting someone. They would look through the peephole first.

Just my 2 cents! :)

If I was in my bedroom texting with my boyfriend, I think I'd likely send a quick "wtf? someone's knocking at the door?!?" text before going down to check it out.

And since JC has stated that the picture that she took a picture of before sending it was in her room, that would be where she should have been just before something happened to likely make her phone inoperable.

MOO

Patience
08-30-2011, 02:20 PM
Originally Posted by ConcernedOhio http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
http://www.flickr.com/photos/6388255...7627519604938/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/63882553@N05/sets/72157627519604938/)

Here's a few pics we took earlier of the front and back of Miss Markham's townhome after the media had cleared out a little.

Joe Friday
08-30-2011, 02:25 PM
LE should by now have a log of all her incoming and outgoing calls made to and from her cell phone. So they should know if she received a call from someone that night if she was called to answer the door. They should also have a log of all text messages sent and received. Hopefully they they should also have the location of where her phone was at the times those calls and messages were sent and received as well to see if she was possibly out of her apartment when she sent the photo text to JC.

I would think they have also looked into JC's phone records as well.

If LE doesn't have this information I think they need to get on this ASAP.


Does anyone know if the FBI or Ohio State Police been consulted at all by the Fairfield PD?

ShouldBWorking
08-30-2011, 02:27 PM
700WLW just had Sheriff Jones on and the polygraph was discussed....Sheriff knows what happened but won't say (respect and understand) went on to tell Willie that sometimes polygraphs are not just passed or failed it can inconclusive which I think would make more sense here since his family has claimed he took 3.....hmmmmm

ShouldBWorking
08-30-2011, 02:29 PM
LE should by now have a log of all her incoming and outgoing calls made to and from her cell phone. So they should know if she received a call from someone that night if she was called to answer the door. They should also have a log of all text messages sent and received. Hopefully they they should also have the location of where her phone was at the times those calls and messages were sent and received as well to see if she was possibly out of her apartment when she sent the photo text to JC.

I would think they have also looked into JC's phone records as well.

If LE doesn't have this information I think they need to get on this ASAP.


Does anyone know if the FBI or Ohio State Police been consulted at all by the Fairfield PD?

FBI has been they are working on a crap I can't think what it's called where you have someone do like a "outline" of the type of person that would do a crime like this....someone help me out....I am on my second day of no caffeine.....

Kamille
08-30-2011, 02:30 PM
Katelyn's linkedin profile has some information regarding her jobs and clubs that she has been involved with...

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/katelyn-markham/1b/244/802

Associate The Art Institute of Ohio - Cincinnati
Educational Institution; Design industry

January 2008 – Present (3 years 8 months)

I was the only person working under my boss, and I acted as a assistant manager. I was the manager when my boss was gone, and I worked with new, potential, and recurring students. Handed out new student kits and books, and handled student fee's.

Activities and Societies: AIGA Student Chapter; Graphic Design Club; Art Club; Student Worker


Sure seems like she had a lot of contact with people that would not necessarily involve her boyfriend of 6 years. I really hope that LE is scrutinizing her phone records but I kind of doubt they are. They don't seem to be doing anything. They are still refusing to admit that this is definitely foul play even though she's been missing for 2 weeks and has not had access to anything...vehicle, money, phone etc. They searched around the area of her condo for a few days and then gave it up. The FBI don't appear to be involved and they are the ones who would usually handle this kind of thing I think. I wonder if the Cyber Crimes Unit is looking into the records? :waitasec:

SurfieTX
08-30-2011, 02:31 PM
FBI has been they are working on a crap I can't think what it's called where you have someone do like a "outline" of the type of person that would do a crime like this....someone help me out....I am on my second day of no caffeine.....

Profile (I watch WAYY to much Criminal Minds. LOL).

Sphere
08-30-2011, 02:31 PM
Hey, everyone- this is my first post here on Websleuth; I've come up with a few thoughts relating to this whole case that may or may not have been addressed already (haven't quite waded through 100% of the 50+ pages of this thread), so bear with me. :)


1) Supposing for a second that JC is guilty, it might (depending on the dog's personality) make sense that the dog didn't start barking. A lot of the couples that I know (myself and my bf included) wrestle around; if he was able to subdue her quickly enough, the dog may have assumed that it was just a play wrestling match, which can sound realistic- one of my college room mates and her bf put up quite a stir with some enthusiastic play wrestling matches one semester.

2) This may just be how I'm interpreting it, but the transcript from the 911 call made it sound like he either was not at the condo yet (so how would he know about the car/purse/phone/etc?) OR that he had left the scene, done an unknown something, and then made the call.

If most people were put in this situation, they would have stayed at the condo and had the cops meet them there ASAP if they had already checked out other possiblities.

3) JC mentions in the 911 call that there is a Sacred Heart festival down the street.

The only Sacred Heart that I'm familiar with is the Sacred Heart Catholic church; its also the main query that comes up in a Google search.

Why would he mention the sketchy characters at a church funded festival? Is this a throwback to the Wiccan connections others have mentioned?

4) Someone asked if today's young women would answer their doors late at night.

I'm 22, female, and probably wouldn't even answer the door if someone randomly knocked on it much after 9:30 or 10pm unless I already knew they were coming.

However, I just moved out of a college town and knew plenty of women my age who didn't even understand what being careful meant. You could go up to a door and knock at 2am if you wanted- there'd be a 95% chance that someone would just fling the door open without checking it out first.

I think a lot of that habit comes from the dorms where you can, for the most part, fling the door open and be OK no matter who's on the other side.

Do we know if Katelyn ever lived in dorms to develop that habit? Also, how safe is the area around her condo?

5) Are there gangs in the area?

I live in an area of VA with high gang activity, and just a couple years ago there was a string of arrests of well-respected high school kids who were active in gangs- but until they were arrested and everything was brought to light, no one had a clue.

One of the big things the gangs do around here is stalk and abduct or kill women; new members have to do it to be admitted into the gang.

This doesn't have the chaotic feel of a gang crime, but stranger things have happened I guess.

Joe Friday
08-30-2011, 02:33 PM
The guy in that picture looks a lot like JC--is it him, with her cat and dog?

Yes that is JC. That picture is from his FB page.

Open all his older posts and you will find several post with pictures attached to them. This picture is contained in the album "my pajamas". Click on the picture on FB and you will be taken to the album and you can then scroll through all his pictures.

I'm pretty sure we can link to JC's FB page since he has been named in MSM. But if not, I'm sure the mods will snip it for me.

Link to JC's FB page: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000131426808&sk=wall&closeTheater=1

Harlow
08-30-2011, 02:34 PM
My Newfoundland who is almost a year old will bust out of his crate then let my Jack Russell out of his. My Jack loves his crate but my newf, no way, panic, stress, escape at no cost. He is just fine if he is free to home the house.

And to further discuss how different dog's personalities can be, MY Newfie who is 5 years old now is absolutely in love with his crate!

After we were done housetraining him, we stored the crate in the garage and whenever he got tired, he would go in the garage and stand in front of the crate with his head down peering into it like "someone please open this damn thing for me".

We finally brought it back in the house and took the door off so he can come and go as he pleases from it. Anytime he wants to sleep or nap (or takes something he shouldn't have lol), he immediately goes to his crate.

Dogs are very much like people...very diverse personalities even within the same breed.

Kamille
08-30-2011, 02:34 PM
FBI has been they are working on a crap I can't think what it's called where you have someone do like a "outline" of the type of person that would do a crime like this....someone help me out....I am on my second day of no caffeine.....

LOL ShouldBWorking...I think they call it a profile? :crazy:

Joe Friday
08-30-2011, 02:35 PM
FBI has been they are working on a crap I can't think what it's called where you have someone do like a "outline" of the type of person that would do a crime like this....someone help me out....I am on my second day of no caffeine.....

Where you thinking "Profile"?

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 02:48 PM
Hey A_News_Junkie, :hug:,

seeing how you are so Fantastic with pictures, and video,

Could you see if there is anywhere that shows her front door?

Reason: I would think there would be a Peephole in which should would have at least checked before opening the door.

I know a 280 lb 6' 5" weight lifter, that would never open the door after midnight, without first looking in the peephole.

I grabbed a few shots from the videos at WLWT and concernedohio's flickr. Also noted in video with neighbor Brad, that all the doors are no longer alike.
Anywhoooooo - here is what I have so far. I am going to scan the Nancy Grace video to see if they show the door - that will be much clearer if they do.
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/LifeCoachOnTheCouch/A%20FRESH%20START/door1.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/LifeCoachOnTheCouch/A%20FRESH%20START/door2.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/LifeCoachOnTheCouch/A%20FRESH%20START/door3-1.jpg
A ZOOM SHOT AND EVEN LARGER HERE: http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/LifeCoachOnTheCouch/A%20FRESH%20START/door3.jpg

Also if you hold down your CTRL key and press the + sign it will make anything you are viewing larger. To get back to size you like hold CTRL and press - (minus, no cap) and it will reduce you back! CTRL must be held at same time as + or - key.

If I get or see a good shot of door scanning this NG I will post it too!

JeannieC
08-30-2011, 02:55 PM
Hey A_News_Junkie, :hug:,

seeing how you are so Fantastic with pictures, and video,

Could you see if there is anywhere that shows her front door?

Reason: I would think there would be a Peephole in which should would have at least checked before opening the door.

I know a 280 lb 6' 5" weight lifter, that would never open the door after midnight, without first looking in the peephole.


Interesting point. I believe we have all assumed she left via the back door.

CN2Souls
08-30-2011, 02:59 PM
Profile (I watch WAY to much Criminal Minds. LOL).



Profile of UnSub....

And Victimology...of Victim


Me too:giggle:

CN2Souls
08-30-2011, 03:02 PM
Interesting point. I believe we have all assumed she left via the back door.

However, the Back door has broken blinds on a very large Window in it.

So, I would Think she would peek through the blinds to see who was standing outside that door.

JeannieC
08-30-2011, 03:02 PM
Who reported that the dog was locked in the bedroom? Who opened the door to the bedroom and let the dog out? Just because that is where the dog relieved itself doesn't mean that is the only room it had access to, it had to go somewhere. MAybe that is the room it spent most of its time in anyway. The 'crimescene' was disturbed from the moment JC 'unlocked' the door. How can you say anything there is pristine and has not been altered?

JC and her father entered the apartment. A crimescene has yet to be determined. imo

cluciano63
08-30-2011, 03:08 PM
I sure hope LE has checked all phone records by now, as well as bank activity...those are such basic things.
And assuming they have...they have not yet been able to say that there has been foul play...which makes me kind of think that nothing much of interest has turned up?

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 03:08 PM
I just love my big hi-def TV!!!!!!!! LOL

Yes, does look like a peep hole!
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/LifeCoachOnTheCouch/A%20FRESH%20START/003-1.jpg

REALLY BIG HERE: http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/LifeCoachOnTheCouch/A%20FRESH%20START/003.jpg

two other shots from another section of the video here:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/LifeCoachOnTheCouch/A%20FRESH%20START/002.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/LifeCoachOnTheCouch/A%20FRESH%20START/001.jpg

CN2Souls
08-30-2011, 03:12 PM
I just love my big hi-def TV!!!!!!!! LOL

Yes, does look like a peep hole!
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/LifeCoachOnTheCouch/A%20FRESH%20START/003-1.jpg

REALLY BIG HERE: http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/LifeCoachOnTheCouch/A%20FRESH%20START/003.jpg

two other shots from another section of the video here:
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/LifeCoachOnTheCouch/A%20FRESH%20START/002.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/LifeCoachOnTheCouch/A%20FRESH%20START/001.jpg


So, Either door she would have had someone Knock on,

she could of and more than likely would have looked out and not opened it,

unless it was someone she knew well.

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 03:15 PM
So, Either door she would have had someone Knock on,

she could of and more than likely would have looked out and not opened it,

unless it was someone she knew well.

Yes and to the left of this door is a window she could have peeked out too.

CN2Souls
08-30-2011, 03:19 PM
That door to the garage, next to her back door is that her garage or the neighbors?

http://flic.kr/p/agma1z (http://flic.kr/p/agma1z)

#$@%%^&**$##!!!!

It is in FLICKR link!!!

ETA, Its a little Shed thingy not a Garage.... :doh: Sorry...

ShouldBWorking
08-30-2011, 03:21 PM
Interesting point. I believe we have all assumed she left via the back door.

The back door I believe is a window with blinds.

ShouldBWorking
08-30-2011, 03:21 PM
The word of the day is PROFILE...I knew you smart women and men would figure that out for me!

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 03:31 PM
That door to the garage, next to her back door is that her garage or the neighbors?

http://flic.kr/p/agma1z

#$@%%^&**$##!!!!

It is in FLICKR link!!!

A more local person than me said that is a storage shed and is her units shed.

(last thread somewhere - might have been ConceredOhio that told me that?)

CN2Souls
08-30-2011, 03:34 PM
A more local person than me said that is a storage shed and is her units shed.

(last thread somewhere - might have been ConceredOhio that told me that?)

Thank you... :doh:

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 03:38 PM
Thank you... :doh:

Your more than welcome!
Here is the conversation:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OH OH - Katelyn Markham, 22, Fairfield, 14 Aug 2011
and
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OH OH - Katelyn Markham, 22, Fairfield, 14 Aug 2011
postcount=739

deelytful1
08-30-2011, 03:48 PM
I just went and ran errands and I must say EVERYWHERE you go people are talking about this case and I have to say each person I talked to today had the same person in their mind as a suspect BUT one sweet lady at the grocery made a VERY good point. IF this was someone who knew her and that person knew he was going to be the last person to see her and this was as well planned as it looks like it was WHY didn't that person take the dog and make it look like something happened to her and she maybe had taken the dog out for a walk. I must say this little lady sure has me thinking a little different.

Probably because "HE" was attached to the dog and didn't want anything to happen to it.

JeannieC
08-30-2011, 03:53 PM
LE should by now have a log of all her incoming and outgoing calls made to and from her cell phone. So they should know if she received a call from someone that night if she was called to answer the door. They should also have a log of all text messages sent and received. Hopefully they they should also have the location of where her phone was at the times those calls and messages were sent and received as well to see if she was possibly out of her apartment when she sent the photo text to JC.

I would think they have also looked into JC's phone records as well.

If LE doesn't have this information I think they need to get on this ASAP.


Does anyone know if the FBI or Ohio State Police been consulted at all by the Fairfield PD?

Yes and the Cyber Crimes Unit is investigating.

Local 12 has also learned that the cyber crimes unit of the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation (BCI) is now working with Fairfield Police as they try to find Markham.

http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Reward-Offered-For-Missing-Fairfield-Woman/Hb8WfZ0rpkuNpRRLpddC-w.cspx?rss=30

sreshowtime
08-30-2011, 04:03 PM
Ya know if SOMEONE came into the apt with a key, 'looking' for KM , they could have straightened up any thing askew....wonder if the dog accidents were left in place for LE to see??? I am having a hard time with all JC has relayed as to the sequence of events...what is someone left in a hurry a lot earlier in the day.....came in straightened any disorder up, hmm, missed the hats & pencil holder....then came back later,

Or another someone came in and then later came with the dad....

on and on
I mean really anyone could have waltzed in and out from that 'last' text until the 911 call...and the locks getting changed
Now I wonder who all HAD a key to her place?
hmm, after all lots of POI's according to chief

DianaElaine
08-30-2011, 04:05 PM
Profile of UnSub....

And Victimology...of Victim


Me too:giggle:

I've always wanted to know!! What does UnSub stand for???

sreshowtime
08-30-2011, 04:07 PM
From Jeanie's link- http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Reward-Offered-For-Missing-Fairfield-Woman/Hb8WfZ0rpkuNpRRLpddC-w.cspx?rss=30

snipped-She didn't show up for work the next day at either of her two jobs-at the Art Institute of Ohio or David's Bridal.

Has it EVER been clarified what her hours were supposed to be at Davids Bridal that Sunday? Much less that she was supposed to work at the Art Institute job???? Woudl the AI shop be open on sundays???

Columbo
08-30-2011, 04:07 PM
JC's sister said they met through her. She was friends with KM and one day she said to her brother to come and meet my friend....and they were together and best friends every since....

Doesn't this conflict with what Katelyn says in that myspace page, that she met JC on the internet?

deelytful1
08-30-2011, 04:12 PM
If a young woman opens her door after midnight, it seems like there should be a phone call just before to tell her, "hey I'm here" or "answer your door" because who would expect her to just go and open her door in the middle of the night? I sure wouldn't...the few times someone has come to my door at night, I just ignore it, if I am not expecting anyone. I am not that young though...would any of you younger women open up your door without knowing who it was, for sure?

Yes, but if someone was knocking at my door that I wasn't expecting, I'd grab my cell phone first so that I could call 911 if needed. If it was someone i knew, then i'd open the door.

deelytful1
08-30-2011, 04:13 PM
I've always wanted to know!! What does UnSub stand for???

Unknown subject

SurfieTX
08-30-2011, 04:18 PM
Doesn't this conflict with what Katelyn says in that myspace page, that she met JC on the internet?

Could have been a combination of both IMO. Met, exchanged numbers, MySpace pages, text back and forth, and via that latter electronic avenue got to know one another better/fell in love.

Just speculatin'. :)

JeannieC
08-30-2011, 04:22 PM
Ya know if SOMEONE came into the apt with a key, 'looking' for KM , they could have straightened up any thing askew....wonder if the dog accidents were left in place for LE to see??? I am having a hard time with all JC has relayed as to the sequence of events...what is someone left in a hurry a lot earlier in the day.....came in straightened any disorder up, hmm, missed the hats & pencil holder....then came back later,

Or another someone came in and then later came with the dad....

on and on
I mean really anyone could have waltzed in and out from that 'last' text until the 911 call...and the locks getting changed
Now I wonder who all HAD a key to her place?
hmm, after all lots of POI's according to chief

We know KM had a key and it was in the THouse when she disappeared. JC had his own key. Dad had a key and possibly his gf but not sure of that and Km had a key hidden on the patio.

DianaElaine
08-30-2011, 04:23 PM
Unknown subject


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! :crazy:

pynkphysh
08-30-2011, 04:26 PM
Curious local news. 24 YO Fairfield man killed girlfriend's dog while she was on vacation. That's some "unsub" behavior, IMO.

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_north_cincinnati/fairfield/man-accused-of-killing-girlfriend%27s-dog

Joe Friday
08-30-2011, 04:33 PM
Katelyn's fiance John Carter toled Local 12's Deb Dixon that he recalled the moment he realized Katelyn was missing. "Driving in between these two buildings here, I could see that her car was still here and that, my heart just dropped immediately because I knew she'd have to be at work."

http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Reward-Offered-For-Missing-Fairfield-Woman/Hb8WfZ0rpkuNpRRLpddC-w.cspx?rss=30

SO your texting your fiance all day long while she is supposed to be at work and she is not returning any messages. Even though she is not supposed to use her phone to take phone calls or make text messages, so then you get the feeling something is wrong and drive to her house instead of calling her work. When you first arrive at her house and you see her car there is the moment you realize that she is missing?????? I would have gotten the feeling at that moment in time of "THANKS GOD SHE IS HOME". I wouldn't have gotten the feeling that she is missing. At the very least I would have gotten the feeling something happened to her and she didn't go to work, NOT that she is missing.

JMO

JustPeachy
08-30-2011, 04:41 PM
Profile (I watch WAYY to much Criminal Minds. LOL).

I do too. I LOVE that show. Labor Day will be a Criminal Minds Marathon on A&E.

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 04:49 PM
And to further discuss how different dog's personalities can be, MY Newfie who is 5 years old now is absolutely in love with his crate!

After we were done housetraining him, we stored the crate in the garage and whenever he got tired, he would go in the garage and stand in front of the crate with his head down peering into it like "someone please open this damn thing for me".

We finally brought it back in the house and took the door off so he can come and go as he pleases from it. Anytime he wants to sleep or nap (or takes something he shouldn't have lol), he immediately goes to his crate.

Dogs are very much like people...very diverse personalities even within the same breed.

I believe you are implying that while you were house training, he spent time in his crate/was trained for his crate? As I stated, dogs have different personalities, but they do what is habit and it is being said that the habit is the dog was put in the bathroom. I also stated that shelter dogs/pet store dogs are more likely, in my experience, to want a crate for security because they are already used to it, hence stating that it would be interesting to know if this dog was a shelter dog or taken from the mother. I don't want to keep arguing the point, I just want to make sure that my words are not being turned into something I didn't say. It seems like whenever I try to clarify people just say the same thing back.

You guys are so fast! Sorry I can't quote everyone. Who ever said the point about the dog knocking the stuff over could be a cover for a small struggle, that's a really good point. I also thought the point about her leaving the dog because she got a text instead of someone knocking was a great point and that that could explain why she had her cell in her hand/why it was taken.

Her email was victimgirl@...... sorry I don't want to post the whole thing for her privacy.

When I first saw that I was really creeped out/thought, attackers usually choose their victims based on body language, maybe that carried through. If he really gave her that name, ummm wtf?

I'm going to go back and read some more now. :)

pynkphysh
08-30-2011, 05:05 PM
Oh man, I actually call my BF the pet name "Monster." :X I don't think it's creepy.

pynkphysh
08-30-2011, 05:06 PM
Nothing found after Day 1 of EQUU search :(

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_north_cincinnati/fairfield/texas-equusearch-joins-hunt-for-markham-

ShouldBWorking
08-30-2011, 05:09 PM
I called the FF PD today to find out about searches and the operator said Equu Search is not "connected" with the PD check their website, we as a department are not planning any other searches. Isn't that kinda odd? Why would they not still be searching???

1. They are clueless (not meant disrespectful) just starting point. Too big of an area.
2. They suspect she is a run away fiancee.

Any other theories???

cluciano63
08-30-2011, 05:12 PM
TES won't search withtout cooperation from LE, as far as I know?

JeannieC
08-30-2011, 05:15 PM
Katelyn's fiance John Carter toled Local 12's Deb Dixon that he recalled the moment he realized Katelyn was missing. "Driving in between these two buildings here, I could see that her car was still here and that, my heart just dropped immediately because I knew she'd have to be at work."

http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Reward-Offered-For-Missing-Fairfield-Woman/Hb8WfZ0rpkuNpRRLpddC-w.cspx?rss=30

SO your texting your fiance all day long while she is supposed to be at work and she is not returning any messages. Even though she is not supposed to use her phone to take phone calls or make text messages, so then you get the feeling something is wrong and drive to her house instead of calling her work. When you first arrive at her house and you see her car there is the moment you realize that she is missing?????? I would have gotten the feeling at that moment in time of "THANKS GOD SHE IS HOME". I wouldn't have gotten the feeling that she is missing. At the very least I would have gotten the feeling something happened to her and she didn't go to work, NOT that she is missing.

JMO

My first thought would have been she must have forgotten to charge her phone or she's sick and got off work early. NOT that she was missing. I agree. That sounded strange to me too.

OneLostGrl
08-30-2011, 05:18 PM
I called the FF PD today to find out about searches and the operator said Equu Search is not "connected" with the PD check their website, we as a department are not planning any other searches. Isn't that kinda odd? Why would they not still be searching???

1. They are clueless (not meant disrespectful) just starting point. Too big of an area.
2. They suspect she is a run away fiancee.

Any other theories???

That's just messed up that LE isn't even searching.

Kamille
08-30-2011, 05:22 PM
Nothing found after Day 1 of EQUU search :(

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_north_cincinnati/fairfield/texas-equusearch-joins-hunt-for-markham-

They weren't searching today, just getting things set up. They'll start at 8am tomorrow.

Darcyline
08-30-2011, 05:24 PM
From what I understand from other cases, LE usually doesn't search for that long. After you search obvious, immediate places if you have no tips for other places to search then it becomes a waste of time. Well, not a waste, but like searching for a needle in a haystack. From here on out it will be a different type of investigation dependent on other information if a search is to happen.

Breazy
08-30-2011, 05:26 PM
Whew! Finally caught up reading this thread. Thanks to all the great posters here that keep the rest of us in the know. So glad to see that TES is on the scene and so hoping they find something that leads to Katelyn. Please let Katelyn be found and if she was harmed, that the perp receives his/her justice!!!

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 05:27 PM
pynkphysh, i don't think the monster part is creepy, I think the victim part is creepy, but it could have been innocent and only now looks suspicious.

I read somewhere that DB is open from 11 or12 to 6 or 630 on Sundays. No one has said anything about the AIC except to say that she didn't show up to either of her jobs that day, at least that I have seen. I've been very curious to know if she was supposed to work at AIC that day. Some people on facebook have been saying how weird it was that he didn't sleep over if she didn't have to work until 11, but if she worked both jobs and he expected her home after DB, then she would have had to get up pretty early.

I've also heard, I think on the other thread here, that her dad is the one that filed a missing persons report. That would have been done after the 911 call I guess? Why wouldn't JC have done that?

His time line about being there and then going somewhere else is so odd. I wonder why that question hasn't been asked. Could he have just run home to get a cell phone to call? Hmmmm. She's not in the white pages, would she have gotten a private land line? I know that to do that where I live, it costs extra. If there was no body (which there wasn't) and no real sign of a struggle (which there wasn't) and there's no land line, and he forgot his cell when he went to check on her, that could explain the leaving, but I don't know. One would think since he was trying to find her, he would make sure his phone was on him at all times. If it's him that seems to be his big slip up.

Since no one is coming forward to say that she was seen on Saturday and they were seen fighting on Friday, it would seem more likely that she was gone Friday night. He would have all day to clean up, fake some texts, burn private papers. He would know how to pick up her house so that it looked like there wasn't a struggle.

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 05:31 PM
Could have been a combination of both IMO. Met, exchanged numbers, MySpace pages, text back and forth, and via that latter electronic avenue got to know one another better/fell in love.

Just speculatin'. :)

They could have also met through the sister, but instead of meeting in person she just gave one or the other their myspace pages. That's actually how I know Katelyn, a friend of a friend said we should be friends. Not the suggest a friend thing they have, but told me that we needed to know each other.

'Ailina
08-30-2011, 05:39 PM
When JC said his "heart sank" when he saw her car at home, the first thought that crossed my mind was the possibility his heart sank because he thought she was up to something.

Granted, he said she was not a deceitful person, and I'm not speculating on her character here at all. My question comes up purely from JC's words and their possible implications.

To my mind, seeing her car at home would -- to ANYONE'S mind -- appear as signifying her LOCATION, not signifying where she ISN'T.

MOO

ShouldBWorking
08-30-2011, 05:44 PM
I think LE is very supportive of them being here I was just surprised that they didn't have more information, like a partnership I guess.

SchoolgirlShamus
08-30-2011, 05:49 PM
Since no one is coming forward to say that she was seen on Saturday and they were seen fighting on Friday, it would seem more likely that she was gone Friday night.

That's what I thought at first. And I realize all social networking posts are officially regarded as "rumor" on these forums. But I saw two co-workers on FB who said (not recently, but at the time) that she worked at David's Bridal until 7 pm on Saturday.

Also, her uncle (assuming he is who he says he is) said on FB he communicated with her around 7:45 pm Saturday about design work he wanted her to do for his business.

That all narrows the window. So probably whatever happened to her happened Saturday night.

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 05:54 PM
maybe because they didn't want to have to fool with the dog...
better to let it stay/ put it in her room...and maybe that someone wanted to deviate from where KM would normally leave the dog for an extended length of time?

Either KM left the dog in her room at some point & closed the door to go downstairs or where ever, thinking she would be back soon
OR someone put the dog in the room, not knowing the bath was the normal spot (IF that is indeed the truth) ...or someone knew the routine and wanted to break from it.
If the dog had been found in its normal place to stay when KM went to work, then that would make me think she disappeared around the time she would be leaving for work, or had left to go to work.
But we don't know that she actually attempted to go to work
:banghead:

eta- and nothing was ever said that I am aware of, of what she may have been wearing

We also don't know where this bathroom was. Was it part of the master bedroom? If so, maybe she did put it in the bathroom, but the door didn't shut all the way and it got out. I feel like the person who said that she was probably in bed, received a text/call, closed the dog in to answer the door really fast (then she had her cell in her hand and the dog closed up) made a great point. I can't get that out of my head. Maybe the person on the other end said they needed her to come outside just for a minute which is why the dog was not allowed to go to the door. (If my dogs know the person and I was letting the person in the house, the dogs would be fine to tag along with me, but not if I was thinking I would step outside for a few minutes. Not saying all dogs are the same, just saying that that could be one scenario.) If I thought I would be gone long then the kennel, but just 3 minutes, maybe not. Maybe they just said, can you meet me outside in 2 minutes, I have this or that for you.

Someone mentioned the dog not barking when people wrestle. That freaks both of my dogs out, but it does take them awhile to really start barking. My little one usually just hides. It's the bigger one (the rescue) that gets really upset, tries to protect me. But if I'm having sex (sorry, but it's similar to wrestling) they both hide. lol. The little one goes under a piece of furniture and the big one goes in his kennel. My little dog barks at people coming to the door, but my big dog does not, even if it's a stranger. If I'm home he just wants them to love on him, if I'm gone then I've been told from a landlord (when the kennel door didn't close all the way and he was wandering the house and the landlord came in to do some repairs) that he growled and was in an attack position. It would be good to know if the dog was a barker.

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 05:56 PM
That's what I thought at first. And I realize all social networking posts are officially regarded as "rumor" on these forums. But I saw two co-workers on FB who said (not recently, but at the time) that she worked at David's Bridal until 7 pm on Saturday.

Also, her uncle (assuming he is who he says he is) said on FB he communicated with her around 7:45 pm Saturday about design work he wanted her to do for his business.

That all narrows the window. So probably whatever happened to her happened Saturday night.

But was it a text/email or was it talking on the phone/in person?

I haven't seen that about her working. I've seen a lot of people asking what she was doing all day Saturday, but never answers. That's good to know.

Sphere
08-30-2011, 05:58 PM
I was just messing around with my Blackberry account and noticed something very interesting:

If she had Blackberry Protect installed on the phone and typically kept GPS on, it should be possible to track the last known location of the phone through her RIM/Blackberry account.



Hopefully LE is investigating this already, and there are a lot of ifs in this equation.......

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 05:59 PM
That's what I thought at first. And I realize all social networking posts are officially regarded as "rumor" on these forums. But I saw two co-workers on FB who said (not recently, but at the time) that she worked at David's Bridal until 7 pm on Saturday.

Also, her uncle (assuming he is who he says he is) said on FB he communicated with her around 7:45 pm Saturday about design work he wanted her to do for his business.

That all narrows the window. So probably whatever happened to her happened Saturday night.

Did the uncle say if the communication was verbal or written? If written, I give it less stock as we know they had each others passwords.

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 06:02 PM
But was it a text/email or was it talking on the phone/in person?

I haven't seen that about her working. I've seen a lot of people asking what she was doing all day Saturday, but never answers. That's good to know.

now baa baa -- you gotta get outta my head! I just posted that too!

Did you see that myspace blog entry I posted earlier re: victim name? Oh and :Welcome1::welcome3::Welcome1:

Kamille
08-30-2011, 06:05 PM
I was just messing around with my Blackberry account and noticed something very interesting:

If she had Blackberry Protect installed on the phone and typically kept GPS on, it should be possible to track the last known location of the phone through her RIM/Blackberry account.



Hopefully LE is investigating this already, and there are a lot of ifs in this equation.......

I'm sure that LE know exactly were the phone was, well at least the co-ordinates, when it was "turned off" or IMO disabled. She apparently had and used the GPS feature so they would easily get the last known co-ordinates, especially since she was sending a picture.

MOO

Ronso
08-30-2011, 06:13 PM
I don't believe anyone texted or called her before she went downstairs (if that's what happened). LE would have record of that, and it would be easy to figure out the suspect. I think the most likely scenario is that someone knocked on the door or she stepped out for a smoke. I am a night owl, so sometimes I have friends call/stop by late (even though I have kids) if they "need something". I have a peep hole though, and always check to see who it is, and I'm guessing she did too. So it would've had to have been someone she was familiar with I would think.

Joe Friday
08-30-2011, 06:16 PM
We also don't know where this bathroom was. Was it part of the master bedroom? If so, maybe she did put it in the bathroom, but the door didn't shut all the way and it got out. I feel like the person who said that she was probably in bed, received a text/call, closed the dog in to answer the door really fast (then she had her cell in her hand and the dog closed up) made a great point. I can't get that out of my head. Maybe the person on the other end said they needed her to come outside just for a minute which is why the dog was not allowed to go to the door. (If my dogs know the person and I was letting the person in the house, the dogs would be fine to tag along with me, but not if I was thinking I would step outside for a few minutes. Not saying all dogs are the same, just saying that that could be one scenario.) If I thought I would be gone long then the kennel, but just 3 minutes, maybe not. Maybe they just said, can you meet me outside in 2 minutes, I have this or that for you.

Someone mentioned the dog not barking when people wrestle. That freaks both of my dogs out, but it does take them awhile to really start barking. My little one usually just hides. It's the bigger one (the rescue) that gets really upset, tries to protect me. But if I'm having sex (sorry, but it's similar to wrestling) they both hide. lol. The little one goes under a piece of furniture and the big one goes in his kennel. My little dog barks at people coming to the door, but my big dog does not, even if it's a stranger. If I'm home he just wants them to love on him, if I'm gone then I've been told from a landlord (when the kennel door didn't close all the way and he was wandering the house and the landlord came in to do some repairs) that he growled and was in an attack position. It would be good to know if the dog was a barker.

BBM

OK, just a little to much information. LOL Welcome to WS by the way.

SurfieTX
08-30-2011, 06:17 PM
Two things:

In order to file a missing persons report, I would assume one has to be a relative; hence, dad filed the report.

Has anyone heard the dad confirm the dog reports (about being locked in the room?). I think he's the only one who can corroborate (or maybe police too?) that fact. I'm assuming the dog had some accidents in the bedroom - otherwise, how would JC know how long the dog had been in the room? I'm considering this fact, but taking it with a big grain of salt (and subsequent hypertension. ;) ).

sreshowtime
08-30-2011, 06:19 PM
Hmm- okay off on a tangent and POI's
the gospel according FB has this 'biological uncle' having contact with her Sat evening around 7:45 pm re- some work......and chance this 'uncle' paid a late night visit???

Sphere
08-30-2011, 06:25 PM
I don't believe anyone texted or called her before she went downstairs (if that's what happened). LE would have record of that, and it would be easy to figure out the suspect. I think the most likely scenario is that someone knocked on the door or she stepped out for a smoke. I am a night owl, so sometimes I have friends call/stop by late (even though I have kids) if they "need something". I have a peep hole though, and always check to see who it is, and I'm guessing she did too. So it would've had to have been someone she was familiar with I would think.

Another possibility- someone dressed as a cop (or other very official entity) knocking on the door early in the morning.

A lot of people wouldn't think twice about answering to a cop banging on the door, especially in the early hours of the morning.

It'd take some work on the part of the guilty person, but it would be worth their time if they wanted to do her harm but couldn't pull the familiar face card.

Joe Friday
08-30-2011, 06:33 PM
Picture of Murphy, taken in 2007.

http://lemmegetkh.deviantart.com/gallery/?offset=480#/dwfi7p

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs16/i/2007/122/d/0/Murphy_by_lemmegetkh.jpg


Picture of both Murphy and Boostin, taken ??? But I think the picture was taken in the same neighborhood where KM is currently living.

http://www.myspace.com/sublimeapc/photos/59066799#


http://a1.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/45/35b559b9e7554003ab4d70e1b4bb3e93/l.jpg

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 06:44 PM
now baa baa -- you gotta get outta my head! I just posted that too!

Did you see that myspace blog entry I posted earlier re: victim name? Oh and :Welcome1::welcome3::Welcome1:

I did see it. Very, very strange.

Ronso, would they know what the text said? Perhaps they do know about the text/call, but can't say what it was about so they are trying to fit the other person in, or it's JC and it wouldn't seem suspicious because he admitted to texting her.

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 06:48 PM
Sorry Joe, lol.

Surfie TX, I was wondering if that was the case, but what if there was no family around? Wouldn't a boss be able to do it? And John was her fiance. I also think the dog going to the bathroom is why JC said it was in the room for a long time, but as I mentioned before and I think someone else too, that other factors could be to blame for the dog going to the bathroom in the room. (Anxiety mostly.)

JeannieC
08-30-2011, 06:48 PM
I did see it. Very, very strange.

Ronso, would they know what the text said? Perhaps they do know about the text/call, but can't say what it was about so they are trying to fit the other person in, or it's JC and it wouldn't seem suspicious because he admitted to texting her.

Since KM's phone is missing the only way to know what was texted to her is through the sender's phone. Cell companies do not keep copies of text messages.

Ronso
08-30-2011, 06:49 PM
Ronso, would they know what the text said? Perhaps they do know about the text/call, but can't say what it was about so they are trying to fit the other person in, or it's JC and it wouldn't seem suspicious because he admitted to texting her.

I believe most cell companies you can retrieve actual text messages up to 14 days after they were sent. I imagine LE has gone this route (I doubt it would take that long to get a warrant for that information).

It's quite possible her last texts were from JC. It's also possible something happened to her BEFORE then, and he was texting himself from her phone. As close as he lived to her, I can't imagine they wouldn't ping off the same tower. Of course, I don't know how accurate GPS coordinates are and whether or not they can rule out that possibility. With him being with Cricket (I have a friend that uses them)... does he even have a GPS-enabled phone? My friend has told me their phones are expensive, which is why she doesn't have a smartphone. Do we know anything about the type of phone JC has? Or maybe his GPS wasn't enabled on it?

sreshowtime
08-30-2011, 06:50 PM
OH I found where this 'uncle' DM said it was a a family adoption...'legal titles and who is who biologically are sorta mixed up' So yeah It may be rumor, but does sort of answer the questions some of us had on was it a family related adoption...

hmm now i am wondering about THAT side of the family and her mother, or mom.

Ronso
08-30-2011, 06:52 PM
Jeannie- some cell companies DO keep copies of text messages. My friend told me this who used to work for Sprint or Verizon, can't remember which. I should call T-Mobile (my provider) and ask if they keep copies of actual messages.

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 06:59 PM
I believe most cell companies you can retrieve actual text messages up to 14 days after they were sent. I imagine LE has gone this route (I doubt it would take that long to get a warrant for that information).

It's quite possible her last texts were from JC. It's also possible something happened to her BEFORE then, and he was texting himself from her phone. As close as he lived to her, I can't imagine they wouldn't ping off the same tower. Of course, I don't know how accurate GPS coordinates are and whether or not they can rule out that possibility. With him being with Cricket (I have a friend that uses them)... does he even have a GPS-enabled phone? My friend has told me their phones are expensive, which is why she doesn't have a smartphone. Do we know anything about the type of phone JC has? Or maybe his GPS wasn't enabled on it?

I missed it - how do we know he had Cricket and do we know Katelyn's carrier?

JeannieC
08-30-2011, 06:59 PM
Jeannie- some cell companies DO keep copies of text messages. My friend told me this who used to work for Sprint or Verizon, can't remember which. I should call T-Mobile (my provider) and ask if they keep copies of actual messages.

I should have added that. I posted that on the previous thread. They keep them long enough to cover any type of outage or problem that might occur.

deelytful1
08-30-2011, 06:59 PM
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.91972270950.96466.661405950&type=1

All I know is if he did hurt her, there was an awful lot of love lost. These pics show a couple who loved each other tremendously... sigh

Silver~Bell
08-30-2011, 07:01 PM
WHEN was the LAST TIME someone OTHER than J saw her?

I think that is key. And I think that phone records and this last OTHER sighting will be the real timeline of when she left/was removed from her townhome.

JeannieC
08-30-2011, 07:02 PM
I missed it - how do we know he had Cricket and do we know Katelyn's carrier?

Her phone and carrier was listed on the previous thread but I don't remember who it was. Unless I'm mistaken someone said they were on the same plan but I won't swear to it.

Joe Friday
08-30-2011, 07:03 PM
I believe most cell companies you can retrieve actual text messages up to 14 days after they were sent. I imagine LE has gone this route (I doubt it would take that long to get a warrant for that information).

It's quite possible her last texts were from JC. It's also possible something happened to her BEFORE then, and he was texting himself from her phone. As close as he lived to her, I can't imagine they wouldn't ping off the same tower. Of course, I don't know how accurate GPS coordinates are and whether or not they can rule out that possibility. With him being with Cricket (I have a friend that uses them)... does he even have a GPS-enabled phone? My friend has told me their phones are expensive, which is why she doesn't have a smartphone. Do we know anything about the type of phone JC has? Or maybe his GPS wasn't enabled on it?

BBM

I think this is why the Cyber Crimes Unit of the BCI has been consulted by the Fairfield PD. To look into who sent what and from where on the several different phones related to the case.

JMO


Local 12 has also learned that the cyber crimes unit of the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification and Investigation (BCI) is now working with Fairfield Police as they try to find Markham.

http://www.local12.com/content/breaking_news/story/Reward-Offered-For-Missing-Fairfield-Woman/Hb8WfZ0rpkuNpRRLpddC-w.cspx

Sphere
08-30-2011, 07:05 PM
I believe most cell companies you can retrieve actual text messages up to 14 days after they were sent. I imagine LE has gone this route (I doubt it would take that long to get a warrant for that information).

It's quite possible her last texts were from JC. It's also possible something happened to her BEFORE then, and he was texting himself from her phone. As close as he lived to her, I can't imagine they wouldn't ping off the same tower. Of course, I don't know how accurate GPS coordinates are and whether or not they can rule out that possibility. With him being with Cricket (I have a friend that uses them)... does he even have a GPS-enabled phone? My friend has told me their phones are expensive, which is why she doesn't have a smartphone. Do we know anything about the type of phone JC has? Or maybe his GPS wasn't enabled on it?

In some of the videos, JC has shown his phone to the cameraman in an attempt to show the picture that KM supposedly sent him- some sort of LG model.

I went to www.phonescoop.com, looked up Cricket under carriers and found this:

http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=3080

Its the only LG model they carry (at least according to the site), and looks like the one I've seen him waving around in a couple interviews.

It does have GPS.

Ronso
08-30-2011, 07:08 PM
So it's an Android phone. Easy to turn GPS on and off. Mine's right in the drop down menu on my Samsung.

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 07:10 PM
Cricket phones are expensive, as are most pay as you go, because contract phones cover the cost of the phone in the monthly payments, but pay as you go, they need the cost of the phone up front.

I did not hear anything about what kind of phone he has. I think what Joe was saying makes a lot of sense. If it was a phone call though and not a text, there isn't a way of knowing what was said, just that it happened. If the other person/whoever sent the text, had a pay as you go, maybe I've seen too many law and order/sopranos, but they wouldn't know who that was from the records, right? Maybe they've changed that though. Maybe they would see what the text was or that someone called, but not know the name on the account if it's still how it used to be.

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 07:12 PM
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.91972270950.96466.661405950&type=1

All I know is if he did hurt her, there was an awful lot of love lost. These pics show a couple who loved each other tremendously... sigh

Does anyone know where this cabin was?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=434171305950&set=a.91972270950.96466.661405950&type=1&theater

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 07:14 PM
In some of the videos, JC has shown his phone to the cameraman in an attempt to show the picture that KM supposedly sent him- some sort of LG model.

I went to www.phonescoop.com, looked up Cricket under carriers and found this:

http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=3080

Its the only LG model they carry (at least according to the site), and looks like the one I've seen him waving around in a couple interviews.

It does have GPS.

My uncle has that one, he's with virgin, I know t-mobile carries the same model (I was shopping for phones/carriers recently.) On my phone (HTC Thunderbolt) under GPS settings, it says E911 location cannot be turned off on any mobile cellular phone. I thought that was the case (hence why I said in my first post it can only happen if the battery is out of the phone/possibly dead)

edit: virgin mobile, pay as you go. t-mobile, both contract or pay as you go.

Ronso
08-30-2011, 07:15 PM
You make an excellent point, Baa... since Cricket is pre-pay (my friend has to pay up front for a month of service)... I wonder exactly what kind of information they could get.

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 07:17 PM
Firepit?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=387284150950&set=a.91972270950.96466.661405950&type=1&theater

Sphere
08-30-2011, 07:18 PM
Cricket phones are expensive, as are most pay as you go, because contract phones cover the cost of the phone in the monthly payments, but pay as you go, they need the cost of the phone up front.

I did not hear anything about what kind of phone he has. I think what Joe was saying makes a lot of sense. If it was a phone call though and not a text, there isn't a way of knowing what was said, just that it happened. If the other person/whoever sent the text, had a pay as you go, maybe I've seen too many law and order/sopranos, but they wouldn't know who that was from the records, right? Maybe they've changed that though. Maybe they would see what the text was or that someone called, but not know the name on the account if it's still how it used to be.

Just a thought- even with her phone records, it might be impossible to tell who called or texted.

I have an older Blackberry and can change a setting so my caller ID is always restricted; it'd be pretty easy to do the same with an Android or even just a basic smartphone.

Joe Friday
08-30-2011, 07:20 PM
Does anyone know where this cabin was?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=434171305950&set=a.91972270950.96466.661405950&type=1&theater

That set of pictures was taken on their 5 year anniversary. If you look at picture 66 someone said it was in Clifton. So I would imagine the cabin was there too.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=434171590950&set=a.91972270950.96466.661405950&type=1&theater&pid=5720852&id=661405950

Ronso
08-30-2011, 07:22 PM
If your Caller ID is restricted though, wouldn't the cell company themselves have records of WHO called, it's just that it comes through restricted on the receiving end?

Sphere
08-30-2011, 07:22 PM
Also, I'm with Boost Mobile (similar to Cricket but better prices, ftw). :)

Its a prepaid service, and for the life of me I haven't been able to figure out how to access old texts and emails even through the admin privileges on my account. Haven't talked to customer service yet, but its possible that prepaid companies might not keep records like that.

Not sure about that though, I can always contact Boost and see what they have to say on that if people are interested?

@Ronso- good question, I might have my bf put his phone on restricted and call me tonight to see if that's the case.

Joe Friday
08-30-2011, 07:25 PM
Firepit?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=387284150950&set=a.91972270950.96466.661405950&type=1&theater

I wonder if LE checked out the fire pit JC supposedly used to burn the documents that night. IIRC he said he was using a friends fire pit, but I don't recall if the friend was present at the time. If so LE could easily verify with the friend what was burned that night and if JC is telling the truth.


But I have known a few missing persons cases where their bones have been found in a fire pit.

JMO

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 07:25 PM
Does anyone know where this cabin was?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=434171305950&set=a.91972270950.96466.661405950&type=1&theater

That's a good point.

The last photo, that I've seen, that she updated was on Sat. morning and she responded to a comment at 8:50 am.

Edit, I think someone mentioned the photo of her in the purple shirt as the last photo text? If I remember correctly that is. That photo was uploaded to her facebook a few days before she went missing, so unless JC asked for it so he could put it on his phone, that probably isn't it.

deelytful1
08-30-2011, 07:26 PM
Does anyone know where this cabin was?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=434171305950&set=a.91972270950.96466.661405950&type=1&theater

LOL.. I was thinking the same thing when i saw it! Very little info and I'm hoping LE thought of this as well!

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 07:28 PM
That set of pictures was taken on their 5 year anniversary. If you look at picture 66 someone said it was in Clifton. So I would imagine the cabin was there too.

I saw the metal plate and the caption our days in Clifton or something like that but -- where is there a cabin in Clifton?????? Certainly would be worth checking, IMHO.

sreshowtime
08-30-2011, 07:47 PM
If the cabin pic is in Clifton Ohio, there is a Clifton here- about 1 hour 15 mins away

http://maps.yahoo.com/index.php?ard=1&q1=Clifton%2C%20OH%2045316#mvt=m&lat=39.78717&lon=-83.823556&zoom=11&q1=Clifton%2C%20OH%2045316&q2=Fairfield%20OH

This area has a lot stuff, there is an old mill, a Clifton Gorge nature preserve and I saw some cabin rentals in the area

There is also a Clifton, a due north suburb of Cincinnati, near 75

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 07:52 PM
If your Caller ID is restricted though, wouldn't the cell company themselves have records of WHO called, it's just that it comes through restricted on the receiving end?

Your company or their's? If it's their's that could be why cyber crimes was called in and that could also be what's taking so long. I mean, if it wasn't JC they would have to find out the number, see if it matches any of her friends (if they don't have that info at the pay as you go company) and that's ONLY if her friends are cooperating, and ONLY if they know to ask the right person.

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 07:54 PM
I believe most cell companies you can retrieve actual text messages up to 14 days after they were sent. I imagine LE has gone this route (I doubt it would take that long to get a warrant for that information).

Would it be her company that kept it or the sender's company?

A_News_Junkie
08-30-2011, 07:54 PM
If the cabin pic is in Clifton Ohio, there is a Clifton here- about 1 hour 15 mins away

http://maps.yahoo.com/index.php?ard=1&q1=Clifton%2C%20OH%2045316#mvt=m&lat=39.78717&lon=-83.823556&zoom=11&q1=Clifton%2C%20OH%2045316&q2=Fairfield%20OH

This area has a lot stuff, there is an old mill, a Clifton Gorge nature preserve and I saw some cabin rentals in the area

There is also a Clifton, a due north suburb of Cincinnati, near 75

I was assuming Clifton where University of Cincinnati is.

Those pics are from all different years and places. Conservatory (mirror lake), clifton by UC - one pic looks like an area in Northside --- I just really want to know where that cabin is for sure. :banghead:

Jo in Calif
08-30-2011, 08:14 PM
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.91972270950.96466.661405950&type=1

All I know is if he did hurt her, there was an awful lot of love lost. These pics show a couple who loved each other tremendously... sigh

I will still fall out of my chair, if he has anything to do with her being missing, it just doesn't fit.

cluciano63
08-30-2011, 08:37 PM
I will still fall out of my chair, if he has anything to do with her being missing, it just doesn't fit.

While I kind of agree...it is not so clear to me just now, as certainly everyone thought of Scott and Lacey as the perfect couple, even her family...

darnudes
08-30-2011, 09:00 PM
BBM

I think this is why the Cyber Crimes Unit of the BCI has been consulted by the Fairfield PD. To look into who sent what and from where on the several different phones related to the case.

JMO

There's also a facebook comment made by Katelyn (supposedly) on Sun 14 Aug at 12.42am, 3 mins before her phone was turned off if the times are accurate and that is what I think is so suspect. It certainly looks like someone was trying to lay down tracks that Katelyn was alive and well at this time.

deelytful1
08-30-2011, 09:14 PM
While I kind of agree...it is not so clear to me just now, as certainly everyone thought of Scott and Lacey as the perfect couple, even her family...

This is very, true! :(

Kamille
08-30-2011, 09:16 PM
There's also a facebook comment made by Katelyn (supposedly) on Sun 14 Aug at 12.42am, 3 mins before her phone was turned off if the times are accurate and that is what I think is so suspect. It certainly looks like someone was trying to lay down tracks that Katelyn was alive and well at this time.

Is this just a rumour or is this comment visable?

I think that's a big development because LE can tell where the comment was made with the IP number can't they?

So if they can tell that she was at home, possibly in her room, on her computer and on her phone and all that abruptly stopped at 12:45 am on August 14th then I have to believe that is the time that something happened to both KM and her phone. I can see the phone being damaged in a struggle if she was trying to get an emergency call or text out.

Someone posted earlier that she kept a key hidden outside. Was this ever verified or just another rumour?

cluciano63
08-30-2011, 09:17 PM
Surely they have her computer...although have we heard of LE going in and taking things away?

Darcyline
08-30-2011, 09:23 PM
It is very possible that he has nothing to do with it, but even so-called loving perfect couples end tragically sometimes. Pretty pictures do not always equal pretty insides.

ShouldBWorking
08-30-2011, 09:36 PM
There's also a facebook comment made by Katelyn (supposedly) on Sun 14 Aug at 12.42am, 3 mins before her phone was turned off if the times are accurate and that is what I think is so suspect. It certainly looks like someone was trying to lay down tracks that Katelyn was alive and well at this time.

Do you know what it says??

Truthtiger
08-30-2011, 09:50 PM
I believe the cabin that they were in was at winton woods, they have cabins that they rent out. You could probably see inside the cabins via their website

sreshowtime
08-30-2011, 10:09 PM
wow thanks Truthtiger

there doens't seem to be pics of the inside of the basic cabins, but the hmm maybe?

http://www.hamiltoncountyparks.org/rec_camping/winton_pix.shtm

ShouldBWorking
08-30-2011, 10:12 PM
I have stayed in those cabins numerous times does anyone have a link?

janitor
08-30-2011, 10:14 PM
I had to work the whole weekend and I'm out the loop, sigh...

This is the first I've heard that Katelyn posted a comment on facebook the night she supposedly disappeared. Please, what did the message say!

Also, has anyone thought that they may have gotten into a knockdown-dragout Saturday at her townhouse and she made him leave? He may have left really pissed off and came back later and she opened the door to him after locking the dog up in the bathroom.

The statement of the friend of JC's who allowed him to visit so late at night will be critical. He can attest to JC's demeanor, whether he was disheveled, angry, highly anxious, etc. That is, unless the friend had been asleep and just allowed him to enter his house and the friend went back to bed. We need to remember that JC (if he is the perpetrator) absolutely, positively needed to establish an alibi. He may have burned nothing! He just needed a statement from ANYBODY verifying his whereabouts after he left Katelyn's.

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 10:29 PM
Can't quote it I guess, but this is a paraphrase at 12:41am on August 13th she said she had been about 30% productive, unless you count work, then maybe 60-70, however, she was talking about her school work.

But that is Friday night/Sat. morning, not Sunday morning, but she posted some comments on a photo around 7:42 pm, Sat. night.

Jo in Calif
08-30-2011, 10:33 PM
http://www.wlwt.com/r/29029198/detail.html

The Texas EquuSearch Group will begin helping search for Katelyn Markham at 8 a.m. Thursday.

Read more: http://www.wlwt.com/news/29029198/detail.html#ixzz1WZPxJlMN

darnudes
08-30-2011, 10:41 PM
Is this just a rumour or is this comment visable?

I think that's a big development because LE can tell where the comment was made with the IP number can't they?

So if they can tell that she was at home, possibly in her room, on her computer and on her phone and all that abruptly stopped at 12:45 am on August 14th then I have to believe that is the time that something happened to both KM and her phone. I can see the phone being damaged in a struggle if she was trying to get an emergency call or text out.

Someone posted earlier that she kept a key hidden outside. Was this ever verified or just another rumour?

No not a rumour, you can still see the comment.

The comment came from her facebook account, might not be from her computer and probably not even from her I think. Katelyn used to comment as JC on his facebook so I think it stands to reason he could have had her log in passwords or her account may have been up and open on her computer at the time she went missing.

darnudes
08-30-2011, 10:46 PM
Katelyn posted a comment on a friends facebook page on August 14 at 12:42am, in relation to a festival on the night of the 13th August.

mysteriew
08-30-2011, 10:52 PM
No not a rumour, you can still see the comment.

The comment came from her facebook account, might not be from her computer and probably not even from her I think. Katelyn used to comment as JC on his facebook so I think it stands to reason he could have had her log in passwords or her account may have been up and open on her computer at the time she went missing.

Very true. But anyone who had been following her on FB and who may have wanted to delay discovery that she was missing could have probably gotten onto FB on her computer. Most people using their own computers let the computer fill in the passwords for them.

JeannieC
08-30-2011, 10:57 PM
Is this just a rumour or is this comment visable?

I think that's a big development because LE can tell where the comment was made with the IP number can't they?

So if they can tell that she was at home, possibly in her room, on her computer and on her phone and all that abruptly stopped at 12:45 am on August 14th then I have to believe that is the time that something happened to both KM and her phone. I can see the phone being damaged in a struggle if she was trying to get an emergency call or text out.

Someone posted earlier that she kept a key hidden outside. Was this ever verified or just another rumour?

I believe either JC or her dad told it.

JeannieC
08-30-2011, 11:01 PM
Surely they have her computer...although have we heard of LE going in and taking things away?

When cyber search did there search a lot of things were removed from the townhouse. A computer, printer, and other things.

Inch High PI
08-30-2011, 11:01 PM
Gah-miss a day and I am WAY behind- only on pg 3 of this second thread so if someone said this please just ignore my post but I just thought of something and I have to get it out.

We've had much discussion about the last text message and the delay in him receiving it on his phone. I think most of us agree that sometimes messages are delayed. But what if he WANTED it to be delayed? What if his phone was turned off, even the battery out, so that he would not get the text until much later when he turned on his phone? Maybe when he was finally far away from where her phone would have been when the last text was sent. :waitasec:

Just speculating and thinking out loud. I need to test this theory and see what time my phone shows when I get a text if my phone is off- if it shows the original time sent or the time I turn on my phone. I'd do it now but kind of late for Ms. Inch High (name given to me by a friend) to be bothering friends to help me test a theory :crazy: I suppose different phones handle this in different ways too.

Also, completely off topic, but to the person who was talking about NG being a weather reporter...I guess this is a bad time to mention she's one of the newest contestants on Dancing with the Stars! :floorlaugh:

Oops one more thing- if no one has confirmed it already- JC mentioned in one of his many interviews that the dog's name is Murphy. So not the Boston Terrier if that dog's name is Boston.

Jo in Calif
08-30-2011, 11:05 PM
Katelyn posted a comment on a friends facebook page on August 14 at 12:42am, in relation to a festival on the night of the 13th August.

I think you might want to go back and read that, she posted that in response to her friend's post, on Aug. 12th at 10:17P.M, her post, in response to his post, was on Aug.13 at 10:42 A.M.

darnudes
08-30-2011, 11:10 PM
I think you might want to go back and read that, she posted that in response to her friend's post, on Aug. 12th at 10:17P.M, her post, in response to his post, was on Aug.13 at 10:42 A.M.

Sorry, facebook is showing me different times and dates, could be wrong.

baabaablacksheep
08-30-2011, 11:13 PM
Gah-miss a day and I am WAY behind- only on pg 3 of this second thread so if someone said this please just ignore my post but I just thought of something and I have to get it out.

We've had much discussion about the last text message and the delay in him receiving it on his phone. I think most of us agree that sometimes messages are delayed. But what if he WANTED it to be delayed? What if his phone was turned off, even the battery out, so that he would not get the text until much later when he turned on his phone? Maybe when he was finally far away from where her phone would have been when the last text was sent. :waitasec:

Just speculating and thinking out loud. I need to test this theory and see what time my phone shows when I get a text if my phone is off- if it shows the original time sent or the time I turn on my phone. I'd do it now but kind of late for Ms. Inch High (name given to me by a friend) to be bothering friends to help me test a theory :crazy: I suppose different phones handle this in different ways too.

Also, completely off topic, but to the person who was talking about NG being a weather reporter...I guess this is a bad time to mention she's one of the newest contestants on Dancing with the Stars! :floorlaugh:

Oops one more thing- if no one has confirmed it already- JC mentioned in one of his many interviews that the dog's name is Murphy. So not the Boston Terrier if that dog's name is Boston.


I think, if I'm not mistaken, when my phone is dead and I get messages, they pop up as when I received them. I also think that the past two months, when I've had horrible service (no messages for days depending where I am and even though it says sent from my, they are not) the ones I receive still say when I get them and the ones I sent say when other people get them, not when I sent them. There was a lot of confusion between me and my friends the last two months because they would wonder why I was sending messages days later, not seeing that I actually sent them days before. That would be very tricky indeed. Looking forward to your findings.

The boston terrier is not her dog (from what I can see in pictures.) It almost looks like a beagle/cockerspaniel mix. Also the boston terrier is the dog in john's picture.

sreshowtime
08-30-2011, 11:25 PM
I have stayed in those cabins numerous times does anyone have a link?

you get it from my other post?
again- www.hamiltoncountyparks.org/rec_camping/site_photos.shtm

sreshowtime
08-30-2011, 11:29 PM
http://www.wlwt.com/r/29029198/detail.html

The Texas EquuSearch Group will begin helping search for Katelyn Markham at 8 a.m. Thursday.

Read more: http://www.wlwt.com/news/29029198/detail.html#ixzz1WZPxJlMN
Thanks for the link Jo-

snipped-"He said he expects as many as 500 to 600 people to eventually join the search."


Really??? Do they really get that many people to show ID and join their searches?? I wonder if those who have been searching will join in this TES effort.

JeannieC
08-30-2011, 11:32 PM
Answer to a few questions previously asked:

She had a small mixed breed dog named Murphy
The last time he was her was on Saturday between 11 - 11:30 PM
She sent him a picture of a picture of her at 12.52 PM you can see the picture on Thread 1 Post # 1283

She was only scheduled to work at David's Bridal on Sunday

A recap of events can also be read on Thread 1 Post 1286. Poster Kamille

Hope this answers a few questions.

SchoolgirlShamus
08-30-2011, 11:50 PM
Yes, if JC is telling us the truth and is not the one responsible, then it is possible the person was in her apartment the entire time (hidden in closet or in attic) and was just waiting for him to leave. Her and dog fall asleep and he pounces

If that's true (that is, that JC is being honest), then she was up and on the computer at 12:42 am leaving an FB comment, and then presumably sending him her final text, the picture of a picture. Then SHE had to turn off her phone and/or take out the battery (I'm still confused on the tech stuff). Then she had to fall asleep, and then the person had to pounce.

So she'd have to do something unusual for her (turning off her phone) at the same time JC was doing something unusual (burning her papers, in the rain). All on the night she vanished. That would be pretty strange... however, just because something is strange doesn't mean it's impossible.

Jo in Calif
08-30-2011, 11:51 PM
Thanks for the link Jo-

snipped-"He said he expects as many as 500 to 600 people to eventually join the search."


Really??? Do they really get that many people to show ID and join their searches?? I wonder if those who have been searching will join in this TES effort.

Dave Rader of the Star Search team is helping Miller's team. He said he expects as many as 500 to 600 people to eventually join the search.

Read more: http://www.wlwt.com/news/29029198/detail.html#ixzz1WZicdTvQ
Possibly with Star search team and TES and all the town people, who will probably come out in droves, because TES is there, won't be surprised if they have more than that.

Inch High PI
08-30-2011, 11:53 PM
Sorry, facebook is showing me different times and dates, could be wrong.

Facebook shows your local time, so if you're anywhere but Eastern time zone, you'd need to adjust for the difference to see when the message was sent in local (Ohio) time.

mysteriew
08-30-2011, 11:59 PM
Dave Rader of the Star Search team is helping Miller's team. He said he expects as many as 500 to 600 people to eventually join the search.

Read more: http://www.wlwt.com/news/29029198/detail.html#ixzz1WZicdTvQ
Possibly with Star search team and TES and all the town people, who will probably come out in droves, because TES is there, won't be surprised if they have more than that.

One drawback is going to be that temps are supposed to be 92 on Thurs and 95 on Fri. I was considering going up but changed my mind as I can't do it in the heat.

CanManEh
08-31-2011, 12:01 AM
Tim miller is awesome and does amazing things for people .Does anyone know what his recovery rate is I have heard that does find the person alot but its just that a recovery of a deceast person So im just wondering ,Out of curiosity has he ever found anyone alive?

JeannieC
08-31-2011, 12:05 AM
But if that's true (JC being honest), then she was up and on the computer at 12:42 am leaving an FB comment, and presumably sending him her final text, the picture of a picture. Then SHE had to turn off her phone and/or take out the battery (I'm still confused on the tech stuff). Then she had to fall asleep, and then the person had to pounce.

So she'd have to something unusual (turning off her phone) while JC was doing something unusual (burning her papers). All on the night she vanished... it'd be strange. However, it IS possible.

I believe the person knocked on the door, she answered it thinking it was JC, he took the phone, removed the battery and threw it somewhere

or he used the key outside and came in on her. She might have gone downstairs when she heard the door, closed the bedroom door as she left, and he might have grabbed her and taken her. No struggle if he got her quickly with a knife at her throat.

JeannieC
08-31-2011, 12:10 AM
Tim miller is awesome and does amazing things for people .Does anyone know what his recovery rate is I have heard that does find the person alot but its just that a recovery of a deceast person So im just wondering ,Out of curiosity has he ever found anyone alive?

I saw some on his website that were found alive but it didn't say he/his team found them. Quite a few his team had found deceased and some still missing.

He had several they had already searched for but were planning to do another. From all I have heard he has a good success rate but I don't know the percentage. I'm just glad he is doing this search.

baabaablacksheep
08-31-2011, 12:37 AM
Fiancé Of Missing Fairfield Woman Speaks Out - YouTube

cluciano63
08-31-2011, 12:37 AM
TES has the best equipment...but they can't find everyone...they did do a search for Lauren Spierer, as well Amy Ahonen in CO. and Paige Johnson in KY, all still missing. Hope if Katelyn is in the area, they can find her.

deelytful1
08-31-2011, 01:12 AM
Fiancé Of Missing Fairfield Woman Speaks Out - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx368UG6408&feature=player_embedded)

Geez, does this guy show ANY emotion?
"Horrific?"
I dunno I'm still :fence:

boaps
08-31-2011, 01:33 AM
In the photo of her back door taken by a poster here, the blinds at the TOP of the window appear broken. I seem to recall seeing a shot of the same (?) window with blinds at the bottom broken (maybe it was in a video, from very early on in this case). It was suggested that maybe the dog broke the blinds... but could a little dog really reach up to the top of the window like that? Just something that has stuck in my head...

deelytful1
08-31-2011, 01:40 AM
In the photo of her back door taken by a poster here, the blinds at the TOP of the window appear broken. I seem to recall seeing a shot of the same (?) window with blinds at the bottom broken (maybe it was in a video, from very early on in this case). It was suggested that maybe the dog broke the blinds... but could a little dog really reach up to the top of the window like that? Just something that has stuck in my head...

She had a cat too and I know for a fact that a big one (which hers was) could definitely cause that kind of damage. Replaced quite a few in my day because of my kitties! :)

boaps
08-31-2011, 01:41 AM
Also I wonder who took all the photos of KM on her deviantart page... the ones for her "color" project especially seem to be pretty high quality. Maybe the same photographer/boss?

JeannieC
08-31-2011, 01:44 AM
In the photo of her back door taken by a poster here, the blinds at the TOP of the window appear broken. I seem to recall seeing a shot of the same (?) window with blinds at the bottom broken (maybe it was in a video, from very early on in this case). It was suggested that maybe the dog broke the blinds... but could a little dog really reach up to the top of the window like that? Just something that has stuck in my head...

I believe the broken blinds (at the bottom) were at the front of the house. Possibly in the front bedroom.

I don't think the dog could have broken the blinds at the top. Its a small dog.

boaps
08-31-2011, 01:49 AM
I believe the broken blinds (at the bottom) were at the front of the house. Possibly in the front bedroom.

I don't think the dog could have broken the blinds at the top. Its a small dog.

Ok, if the other broken blinds were on a different window that would likely mean that it was a recurring issue (like a cat) rather than a sign of struggle. And I am sure that if it was out of the ordinary, JC would have made mention of it at some point. It just struck me as creepy!

cluciano63
08-31-2011, 01:55 AM
I hope no one ever has to look for signs of struggle in my house...my lone cat has made his presence known at every window; drapes or blinds are just a mess on the side facing into the house...

JeannieC
08-31-2011, 01:59 AM
I hope no one ever has to look for signs of struggle in my house...my lone cat has made his presence known at every window; drapes or blinds are just a mess on the side facing into the house...

You should see my neighbor's curtains. They are shredded. From outside they look like the 60's beads hanging down! She gave up and removed the blinds.

I told her to get wooden shutters. I've had a lot of cats but I've never had one do that. My friend had the problem with her furniture and she put aluminum foil around it. It broke the cat! Go figure????

boaps
08-31-2011, 02:02 AM
I have finally finished catching up on this thread, and I am usually just a lurker, but I just have to say that this case has really grabbed my attention. I have watched the videos of JC's interviews, and listened to the 911 call, and he seems to have made so many strange comments and so many coincidental little things that just do not add up... but then I look through her artwork and her FB photos, etc. and they seem like a very happy couple and she seems like a very happy person in general. I just do not know what to think.

From my personal experience though, I suffer from anxiety/depression and it is at its worst when I am going through major changes in my life. For example, once I almost got a job in another state and would have to move my family, and I just about had a nervous breakdown even though it would have been a great opportunity (maybe fortunately I did not end up getting the job). Also, the fact that she was set to graduate at the end of summer tells me that she might have been a little behind... maybe she was worried that she would not finish her project/not graduate as planned (yes this has happened to me too) and she may have wanted to run away from the problem. I really hope that she has only run away and is safe somewhere. Sadly I know that this is probably not the case...

cluciano63
08-31-2011, 03:08 AM
I know it takes a while to get organized but I hate that TES isn't starting their search until Thursday, if that is in fact true...I think I read that someplace above.

Redgoblin
08-31-2011, 05:02 AM
Talk about going from thinking he's the perp and then thinking he's not.

I think if JC was the guy then what would be the motive especially for a couple who outwardly at least look very much in love. Then I think if KM was playing away and JC found out that would be real motive.

I hope LE is looking at every angle, interviewing potential POI, JMHO.

Inch High PI
08-31-2011, 07:30 AM
TES has the best equipment...but they can't find everyone...they did do a search for Lauren Spierer, as well Amy Ahonen in CO. and Paige Johnson in KY, all still missing. Hope if Katelyn is in the area, they can find her.

TES searched for Paige Johnson? When? I knew I heard rumors that they were going to come here but I was not aware they ever did. They were not part of the full scale search at East Fork, I do know that much.

If they didn't, maybe it's time, while they're here in town.

DianaElaine
08-31-2011, 07:57 AM
Dave Rader of the Star Search team is helping Miller's team. He said he expects as many as 500 to 600 people to eventually join the search.

Read more: http://www.wlwt.com/news/29029198/detail.html#ixzz1WZicdTvQ
Possibly with Star search team and TES and all the town people, who will probably come out in droves, because TES is there, won't be surprised if they have more than that.

Does TES search for bodies only, or do they search for the living also?

DianaElaine
08-31-2011, 08:08 AM
Fiancé Of Missing Fairfield Woman Speaks Out - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx368UG6408&feature=player_embedded)

baabaablacksheep: from the video you posted, this is a close up of the window.

Is this her bedroom window?

AgathaCristy
08-31-2011, 08:54 AM
This is my first post, but I have been reading all the post for a couple weeks.

I want to comment on the mother, I think it is more than strange that she
shows no interest in her daughters where a bouts.

So what if they had problems, most families do. But her daughter is missing, and very likely murdered, and she doesn't care?

On the other hand maybe she is so distraught that she can't get out of bed, and is on medication.
In that case she needs to have a family spokesman speak for her.

If I was her PR person I would write a statement something like this:

I want to thank all of you who have been looking for my beloved daughter, thank you for your prayes and your concern, thanks to those who have contributed to the
reward fund.

And please anyone that knows anything, however small please call the hot line

:banghead:

JeannaT
08-31-2011, 09:18 AM
Does TES search for bodies only, or do they search for the living also?

I've seen them searching in mountains or parks for wandering children . . . I think in this case, they're searching for a body. An adult woman wouldn't be wandering around lost in the area they're searching.

Sphere
08-31-2011, 09:35 AM
I'm still :fence: about JC as well.

On one hand, he says very very many sketchy things and contradicts himself quite a bit.....but on the other, there are quite a few people who freak out when they have to talk to a crowd of much more than 2 people. Having cameras shoved in your face, having the spotlight point blank on you, and having a good part of public suspicion pointed in your direction would only make that worse.

One question I have is what was JC's personality like before they started arguing (if they did)? What was it like when their relationship was totally smooth sailing? What was he like at work?

So on and so forth.

Some people just don't show emotions....for example, I knew one engineer at VT who never showed emotion about anything; you could tell this guy his mother died and he'd stare at you with a blank face and ask you what happened in a totally blank voice.

janitor
08-31-2011, 10:04 AM
Okay. I slept late and I'm behind again. You guys need to stop it. LOL

Here's a thought:

Let's say they were in a heated argument between 11pm and 1:00am. Something happens to Katelyn during the argument. JC panics and sends a "picture" of a picture then he turns his phone off. He leaves the townhouse and drives to a friends house and turns his phone back on and receives this picture via his phone. Wouldn't it be critical for LE to drive the distance from the townhouse to the friend's home to see how long it would take to get there? This is all of course based on JC thinking ahead that LE could check to see where a call on his phone would "ping" when he received a text or call.

Would one of you excellent sleuths...and there are so many on this forum, post one of your wonderful detailed outlines of texts, facebook comments that are reportedly coming from Katelyn's phone and computer so we could study this a little more extensively?

ShouldBWorking
08-31-2011, 10:05 AM
700WLW on the air taking Katelyn calls

janitor
08-31-2011, 10:07 AM
ohmygosh...can you send us the link to wlw?

ShouldBWorking
08-31-2011, 10:20 AM
Well I must say I had a run in on FB with JC's aunt yesterday and can I just say....well no I can't say what I want to say or I'll get a time out. I don't understand how this family is representing him. I understand "standing by" your family member BUT I don't understand the personal attacks.

I am now up to 10 people who have sent me private messages on FB saying they are afraid to post because of the attacks but pointing out some pretty good stuff, a lot of which we have already pointed out here.

1. The weather
2. I guess people who have had contact with JC in the community prior to this say he's just not motivated, pretty "laid back", the word lazy has been used.
3. I have heard from some local searchers that are VERY reputable that JC goes to the searchers BUT he doesn't search, but his aunt is claiming he has messed up an old injury from all the searching he is doing...again haven't seen it with my own eyes.

ShouldBWorking
08-31-2011, 10:22 AM
http://www.700wlw.com/main.html

I am listening I haven't heard her mentioned yet.

Wanting2Help
08-31-2011, 10:25 AM
I am on the fence also about JC. But... I am wondering about the alleged hidden key out back. It could be very possible that if someone had been watching her for sometime they may have seen someone (KM, JC, the father etc.) take the key or put it back into its hiding space. They could have seen KM & JC arguing at the festival (if that is true), folowed them back to KM's and waited for JC to leave. They could have then used the hidden key and entered the house. The dog MAY not have barked if it was upstairs with KC, is used to hearing normal house sounds from tenants next door, and there was a thunderstorm passing through. (I have 3 large very protective dogs and there are times that people have made it to/ thru the door that the dogs didnt hear them. They bark at everything.) If KC was in her room with the dog it would be very easy for the perp to quickly overtake her with the element of suprise and possible other aids (gun, knife, an ether soaked rag will knock someon out pretty quickly, etc...) without showing signs of a struggle. KM could have tried to reach for the phone or had it already in her hand and it was damaged. Depending on the dog, (each one is different) it may or may not have tried to protect her. Some dogs just cower in fear. The dog could have been shut in the bedroom because thats where it was with KM when the perp entered. It would be easier to just shut the door on the dog than to risk it following and barking or biting.
If the festival was going on people wouldn't really think too much about an odd vehicle parked nearby, especially if it was one they had seen before. It would only take a few minutes and the perp could have had her in a car....

JMO

Sphere
08-31-2011, 10:25 AM
Going back to her Facebook and texting...

(If) JC had hurt KM, on purpose or accidentally, and (if) he did indeed go onto her facebook for X amount of time to cover his tracks....would the speech patterns of her comments be different?

Now, they might very well not be....my bf and I have been dating for about 2.5 years now and he can flawlessly come across as me on Facebook and Skype, but he's a crafty one. Its possible that JC could do the same (especially after dating KM for 6 years), but from what we've heard he's not the brightest guy around.

janitor
08-31-2011, 10:28 AM
thanks shouldbeworking

I'm listening to Bill Cunningham talking to Sheriff Jones talking about the death penalty. Is that what you're listening to?

JeannaT
08-31-2011, 10:36 AM
I'm hearing something about public employee salaries.

A_News_Junkie
08-31-2011, 10:39 AM
They liked the dog or the dog was making to much ruckus and they wanted out fast and with as little noise as possible following them. A dog barking like crazy in a room would distract from the door the person was being taken out.
On another note not related to your post - just tossing this in the mix.
Also, if a dog is stressed out majorly they often will loose potty training skills in fear and anxiety. (Not all, there is no 100% ever)



Yes, if JC is telling us the truth and is not the one responsible, then it is possible the person was in her apartment the entire time (hidden in closet or in attic) and was just waiting for him to leave. Her and dog fall asleep and he pounces and again, dog barking distracts from him taking her out back door or front door and any car driving away. Hard to hear anything when you have a dog in full blown owner protect mode, IMHO.

******
Didn't JC say KM never wore hoop ear-rings?
Here is a pic outside the townhouse with huge hoops.
http://www.myspace.com/sublimeapc/photos/2373761#{%22ImageId%22%3A55160116} (http://www.myspace.com/sublimeapc/photos/2373761#%7B%22ImageId%22%3A55160116%7D)

If that's true (that is, that JC is being honest), then she was up and on the computer at 12:42 am leaving an FB comment, and then presumably sending him her final text, the picture of a picture. Then SHE had to turn off her phone and/or take out the battery (I'm still confused on the tech stuff). Then she had to fall asleep, and then the person had to pounce.

So she'd have to do something unusual for her (turning off her phone) at the same time JC was doing something unusual (burning her papers, in the rain). All on the night she vanished. That would be pretty strange... however, just because something is strange doesn't mean it's impossible.

You quoted the bold part of my post above.
Schoolgirl - First, I should have made my IF REALLY BIG (because it was meant to imply I don't think it is very likely at all)!
Second, I think the 12:42 am FB comment was the day before but showed up on another wonderful sleuths computer as that night because that person is in Australia.
Third: Pic of pic (agree - like who does that anyway! but then again, my personal opinion is she did not, but this post was responding to the hope that JC is telling the truth) Still does not mean she took the pic of the pic - the perp could have done that for timeline or as a hidden message. (Might even explain why JC doesn't want to disclose the stalker - perhaps he is in fear himself???? again, working from *IF* JC is telling 100% truth...and in his anxiety and grief misstating times, etc).
Forth - here is where you really loose me - why would she have to turn the phone off and take the battery out?????? (Unless you are thinking she ran away and wanted it to look like a crime?)
Fifth- You say then she had to fall asleep - not sure that would be necessary either - she could have been in bathroom or just laid down - if an intruder was in the house her being asleep would make it easier maybe, but not be required.
Lastly - you said she would have to do something unusual for her turn off her phone - again, why would she have to be the one to turn off phone and how do we know she didn't do that every night?????? Also, JC burning papers in the rain - unusual - YES, but then again I personally find most of what I have seen about him unusual.

So, I don't get your post - please help! Maybe you misunderstood my hypothetical? ((Or maybe I need more coffee!! LOL))

janitor
08-31-2011, 10:41 AM
Okay....this is what I've learned...

Bill Cunningham asked this Sheriff about whether or not JC DID or DID NOT take a LD test. He refuses to comment because the police chief won't comment yet.

BUT....Cunningham states just by the mere fact that since the police dept. is allowing search teams to come in, that's it's probably a definite that she is dead and not living a new life in another state, etc.

Bill Cunningham asked Chief Dickey a few days ago whether or not JC took a lie detector and he refused to answer.

They discussed that due to the fact that the Chief won't comment, this would mean that he failed it or that the test was inconclusive. The fact is if he passed it, the Chief would have SAID that he passed.

Also, Bill Cunningham is going to interview the Chief again in two days on his show.

JeannaT
08-31-2011, 10:44 AM
Okay....this is what I've learned...

Bill Cunningham asked this Sheriff about whether or not JC DID or DID NOT take a LD test. He refuses to comment because the police chief won't comment yet.

BUT....Cunningham states just by the mere fact that since the police dept. is allowing search teams to come in, that's it's probably a definite that she is dead and not living a new life in another state, etc.

Bill Cunningham asked Chief Dickey a few days ago whether or not JC took a lie detector and he refused to answer.

They discussed that due to the fact that the Chief won't comment, this would mean that he failed it or that the test was inconclusive. The fact is if he passed it, the Chief would have SAID that he passed.

Also, Bill Cunningham is going to interview the Chief again in two days on his show.

I don't know how many of these cases you follow, but I've never seen LE say someone passed a LD test. Like, ever. They say the family has all been cooperative and has taken a LD test, etc., and the family will say they passed, but I've never see LE say that.

ShouldBWorking
08-31-2011, 10:45 AM
thanks shouldbeworking

I'm listening to Bill Cunningham talking to Sheriff Jones talking about the death penalty. Is that what you're listening to?

No Willie won't be on live until noon.

Chili Fries
08-31-2011, 10:49 AM
<snipped>
BUT....Cunningham states just by the mere fact that since the police dept. is allowing search teams to come in, that's it's probably a definite that she is dead and not living a new life in another state, etc.


I don't agree with this. I've followed a whole lot of missing persons cases over the years and it's very common for LE to pursue parallel investigations when they don't know if foul play has occurred or not. It doesn't necessarily mean they've ruled out her leaving by her own free will just because there are these types of searches going on. LE can investigate different possibilities at the same time.

janitor
08-31-2011, 10:55 AM
I think what I was listening to was from 8/30/11 (?)

The fact remains the police dept. is holding all of this close to the vest and the Sheriff was stating that they may be quietly building a circumstantial case because her body hasn't been found. He was saying that it's more difficult to prove a case in court based purely on circumstantial evidence but we all know it can and has been done before in other cases.

boaps
08-31-2011, 10:56 AM
I'm still :fence: about JC as well.

On one hand, he says very very many sketchy things and contradicts himself quite a bit.....but on the other, there are quite a few people who freak out when they have to talk to a crowd of much more than 2 people. Having cameras shoved in your face, having the spotlight point blank on you, and having a good part of public suspicion pointed in your direction would only make that worse.



Yes, and this could explain why he gives different answers every time he is interviewed. But does it explain why his explanation of finding her missing, for example, even if you assume that the times are off, just doesn't make any sense? Why would he wait until she was supposed to be home to look for her, then get worried (horrified) that she was there, then when it turns out she's not there, he leaves, then comes back before calling 911?? Something is missing here.

I have known people who he reminds me of, and I would describe it as "unmotivated" - he does not seem to go to school, he works a pizza delivery job and lives with his mom. (Is it ok to say that he gives me the impression that he might smoke a lot of pot?) I am not sure if he is "bright" or not. He does seem to become quite confused by the details of his story, whether innocently or not. If he had something to do with this, I doubt that it was premeditated, and I am not sure how well thought-out his cover-up would be. (Just my opinion and all based on my impression of him from what we have seen)

A_News_Junkie
08-31-2011, 11:01 AM
I am on the fence also about JC. But... I am wondering about the alleged hidden key out back. It could be very possible that if someone had been watching her for sometime they may have seen someone (KM, JC, the father etc.) take the key or put it back into its hiding space. They could have seen KM & JC arguing at the festival (if that is true), folowed them back to KM's and waited for JC to leave. They could have then used the hidden key and entered the house. The dog MAY not have barked if it was upstairs with KC, is used to hearing normal house sounds from tenants next door, and there was a thunderstorm passing through. (I have 3 large very protective dogs and there are times that people have made it to/ thru the door that the dogs didnt hear them. They bark at everything.) If KC was in her room with the dog it would be very easy for the perp to quickly overtake her with the element of suprise and possible other aids (gun, knife, an ether soaked rag will knock someon out pretty quickly, etc...) without showing signs of a struggle. KM could have tried to reach for the phone or had it already in her hand and it was damaged. Depending on the dog, (each one is different) it may or may not have tried to protect her. Some dogs just cower in fear. The dog could have been shut in the bedroom because thats where it was with KM when the perp entered. It would be easier to just shut the door on the dog than to risk it following and barking or biting.
If the festival was going on people wouldn't really think too much about an odd vehicle parked nearby, especially if it was one they had seen before. It would only take a few minutes and the perp could have had her in a car....

JMO

It is also possible that she ran downstairs to get her phone (or a snack, or bathroom and is like my teen - the phone goes everywhere teen goes!) and the person grabbed her with the dog shut up in the room. IE: maybe her dog was the kind you have to catch to get him to go to bed and so she closed the door to avoid the chase again.
Am I making sense or should I get that extra cup of coffee now?! LOL

A_News_Junkie
08-31-2011, 11:05 AM
TES searched for Paige Johnson? When? I knew I heard rumors that they were going to come here but I was not aware they ever did. They were not part of the full scale search at East Fork, I do know that much.

If they didn't, maybe it's time, while they're here in town.

Inch - I don't think they searched for Paige. You and I have followed that case and my memory matches yours, that there were rumors but never happened that I recall. Wish they would too!

janitor
08-31-2011, 11:07 AM
Jeanna:

The info I was giving in my post above regarding the radio show comments came from Bill Cunningham's thoughts....not my own.

DianaElaine
08-31-2011, 11:19 AM
Well I must say I had a run in on FB with JC's aunt yesterday and can I just say....well no I can't say what I want to say or I'll get a time out. I don't understand how this family is representing him. I understand "standing by" your family member BUT I don't understand the personal attacks.

I am now up to 10 people who have sent me private messages on FB saying they are afraid to post because of the attacks but pointing out some pretty good stuff, a lot of which we have already pointed out here.

1. The weather
2. I guess people who have had contact with JC in the community prior to this say he's just not motivated, pretty "laid back", the word lazy has been used.
3. I have heard from some local searchers that are VERY reputable that JC goes to the searchers BUT he doesn't search, but his aunt is claiming he has messed up an old injury from all the searching he is doing...again haven't seen it with my own eyes.


Lazy is one thing, but gosh ... this is the one you love intensely, missing!

janitor
08-31-2011, 11:24 AM
gee, shouldbeworking, that's what gets under my skin a little bit.

Poor Katelyn. Imagine the debt she was incurring at that Art institute trying to get her degree and working two jobs on the side. She has this boyfriend that she cares about who by the accounts we're reading on the forum, is pretty unmotivated and deprending on Katelyn to be the money-maker and the one doing all of the critical thinking in the relationship. What are his goals? What does he contribute to their financial future? And he really expected her to pull up roots and leave for Colorado without a job or any prospects?

If the story is true that they were arguing about the $100 he spent on raffle tickets that evening I can imagine her being upset. Who has money to blow like that when they are planning for a move to Colorado? And this speaks volumes about his lack of insight, irresponsibility, and immaturity.

janitor
08-31-2011, 11:29 AM
I recall reading a post of his on facebook when he found out his car had been vandalized and the person took some goofy video of his. A friend commented something to the effect, "boy, I have never seen you that mad before".

hmmm....so this guy has a pretty bad temper even over something as minor as a video? What happens when he really loses his temper over something major?

Columbo
08-31-2011, 12:11 PM
Yes, and this could explain why he gives different answers every time he is interviewed. But does it explain why his explanation of finding her missing, for example, even if you assume that the times are off, just doesn't make any sense? Why would he wait until she was supposed to be home to look for her, then get worried (horrified) that she was there, then when it turns out she's not there, he leaves, then comes back before calling 911?? Something is missing here.

I have known people who he reminds me of, and I would describe it as "unmotivated" - he does not seem to go to school, he works a pizza delivery job and lives with his mom. (Is it ok to say that he gives me the impression that he might smoke a lot of pot?) I am not sure if he is "bright" or not. He does seem to become quite confused by the details of his story, whether innocently or not. If he had something to do with this, I doubt that it was premeditated, and I am not sure how well thought-out his cover-up would be. (Just my opinion and all based on my impression of him from what we have seen)

bolded by me.

Thanks for saying this, boaps. I've been thinking about this ever since reading Katelyn's myspace post where she says she'll be getting high less often when JC goes off to college. I'll see if I can find the link, it's on page 2 or 3. I wasn't sure if it was appropriate to comment, either, but it sounds like he instigates drug use with her and it definitely could affect his mind/body in many ways (not to mention hers!). To me, it would explain a LOT of his behavior, and the varying stories, etc. I guess at some point he was talking about going away to school? Anyway--sounds like he's good at talking and not so good at "doing".

Here's the link: http://www.myspace.com/sublimeapc/blog Her comments were written a few years ago, but still, I think they are important.

Sphere
08-31-2011, 12:26 PM
Looking through that myspace blog, I see a couple mentions of KM being jealous, and vague mentions to John having done something to upset her?

"Im jelous, and John is bad at keeping promises.
It happens."

"i feel as though i have become more whinny and annoying and i feel as though alot of people are mad at me alot but i dont know how to stop these thoughts so i try to block them out. katelyn has a privite blog probibly about something she was very mad about and told me that she wasent. nevertheless i can see why she would be mad...(she says shes just jealous) i understand."

The first quote seems to be from KM and the second seems to be from JC.

As has been mentioned before, these statements are a couple years old, but they might still give some insight to their relationship.

Or I could just be obsessing over little details, who knows. Just a thought though.

janitor
08-31-2011, 12:29 PM
shouldbeworking:

I just tuned into Cunningham's show and he mentioned the topics that he would be discussing but he didn't mention the Markham disappearance. Is that your understanding?

To those of you who don't live in cincy, Bill Cunningham is a former attorney turned radio talk show host personality. A lot of people love him but I take him with a grain of salt. Loud and opinionated at times...should be more objective if you ask me. But he does ask the tough questions which I appreciate.

sreshowtime
08-31-2011, 12:29 PM
(i had caught that too Columbo- might explain a seeming lack of motivation? And KM running behind on graduating?? Trust me I had been in that lifestyle and it messes with ya whether some admit it or not....and can make ya tempermental)


all that glitters may not be so golden

cluciano63
08-31-2011, 12:32 PM
Inch - I don't think they searched for Paige. You and I have followed that case and my memory matches yours, that there were rumors but never happened that I recall. Wish they would too!

Maybe they never did...they have her on their page with a date set and then another date set...wonder what happened?

janitor
08-31-2011, 12:32 PM
Okay. I slept late and I'm behind again. You guys need to stop it. LOL

Here's a thought:

Let's say they were in a heated argument between 11pm and 1:00am. Something happens to Katelyn during the argument. JC panics and sends a "picture" of a picture then he turns his phone off. He leaves the townhouse and drives to a friends house and turns his phone back on and receives this picture via his phone. Wouldn't it be critical for LE to drive the distance from the townhouse to the friend's home to see how long it would take to get there? This is all of course based on JC thinking ahead that LE could check to see where a call on his phone would "ping" when he received a text or call.

Would one of you excellent sleuths...and there are so many on this forum, post one of your wonderful detailed outlines of texts, facebook comments that are reportedly coming from Katelyn's phone and computer so we could study this a little more extensively?

Redgoblin
08-31-2011, 12:41 PM
I notice from her myspace blog there is a comment made about 7 months ago saying you are my friend from a poster with the initials KN. This person says he studies graphic design.

Is KN a friend of both KM and JC because his recent activity on facebook mentions that he has just recently befriended JC. - Which could be considered strange? and perhaps not the sign of someone who has been friends with the couple for 7 months or more.

Although this KN could have been friends with KM, based on the comment to myspace and the art background.

His FB - https://www.facebook.com/nolandkyle?sk=wall

I don't know if this person has been mentioned before and I'm certainly not excusing him of anything. I'm just trying to figure out if JC had a possible motive?

Columbo
08-31-2011, 12:53 PM
Looking through that myspace blog, I see a couple mentions of KM being jealous, and vague mentions to John having done something to upset her?

"Im jelous, and John is bad at keeping promises.
It happens."

"i feel as though i have become more whinny and annoying and i feel as though alot of people are mad at me alot but i dont know how to stop these thoughts so i try to block them out. katelyn has a privite blog probibly about something she was very mad about and told me that she wasent. nevertheless i can see why she would be mad...(she says shes just jealous) i understand."

The first quote seems to be from KM and the second seems to be from JC.

As has been mentioned before, these statements are a couple years old, but they might still give some insight to their relationship.

Or I could just be obsessing over little details, who knows. Just a thought though.

It sounds like they both write in this blog together (?) do people do that? It seems like they communicate through the blog when they can't say things directly to each other. I don't think you are obsessing over details, these things could all add up.

Columbo
08-31-2011, 12:56 PM
(i had caught that too Columbo- might explain a seeming lack of motivation? And KM running behind on graduating?? Trust me I had been in that lifestyle and it messes with ya whether some admit it or not....and can make ya tempermental)


all that glitters may not be so golden

I think it explains a lot. It doesn't necessarily make him a killer, but ??? who knows.
It seems like she was trying to make something of her life and JC may have been dragging her down.

sreshowtime
08-31-2011, 12:56 PM
I don't think KN would be a love interest for KM...he indicates he is married to another male

Columbo
08-31-2011, 12:57 PM
I notice from her myspace blog there is a comment made about 7 months ago saying you are my friend from a poster with the initials KN. This person says he studies graphic design.

Is KN a friend of both KM and JC because his recent activity on facebook mentions that he has just recently befriended JC. - Which could be considered strange? and perhaps not the sign of someone who has been friends with the couple for 7 months or more.

Although this KN could have been friends with KM, based on the comment to myspace and the art background.

His FB - https://www.facebook.com/nolandkyle?sk=wall

I don't know if this person has been mentioned before and I'm certainly not excusing him of anything. I'm just trying to figure out if JC had a possible motive?

That sounds like it's worth looking into!
ETA: oops, guess not......

SurfieTX
08-31-2011, 12:57 PM
I notice from her myspace blog there is a comment made about 7 months ago saying you are my friend from a poster with the initials KN. This person says he studies graphic design.

Is KN a friend of both KM and JC because his recent activity on facebook mentions that he has just recently befriended JC. - Which could be considered strange? and perhaps not the sign of someone who has been friends with the couple for 7 months or more.

Although this KN could have been friends with KM, based on the comment to myspace and the art background.

His FB - https://www.facebook.com/nolandkyle?sk=wall

I don't know if this person has been mentioned before and I'm certainly not excusing him of anything. I'm just trying to figure out if JC had a possible motive?

Dead end, IMO for 2 reasons. First, JC (or someone was - *wink-wink*) was friending people left and right on his FB page those first few days. Second, KN's page says he's married to a man (which I think is true, not a FB joke).

mysteriew
08-31-2011, 01:29 PM
Okay. I slept late and I'm behind again. You guys need to stop it. LOL

Here's a thought:

Let's say they were in a heated argument between 11pm and 1:00am. Something happens to Katelyn during the argument. JC panics and sends a "picture" of a picture then he turns his phone off. He leaves the townhouse and drives to a friends house and turns his phone back on and receives this picture via his phone. Wouldn't it be critical for LE to drive the distance from the townhouse to the friend's home to see how long it would take to get there? This is all of course based on JC thinking ahead that LE could check to see where a call on his phone would "ping" when he received a text or call.

Would one of you excellent sleuths...and there are so many on this forum, post one of your wonderful detailed outlines of texts, facebook comments that are reportedly coming from Katelyn's phone and computer so we could study this a little more extensively?

I tried to imagine this scenario in my head. Ok if something happened and Katelyn was injured or killed. I would imagine it was a highly emotional tense situation. Decisions would have to be made as to calling 911 or not. If not, then what to do. Do you think this guy is cool and quick thinking enough to remember that he has to cover his tracks and to think up making the computer comments and texts to cover himself?

If he was covering himself wouldn't he want to make the texts less cryptic and more explanatory in his favor? Like maybe an explanation that she was going to run out to the store or there was a knock on the door or even that she was tired and was just going to shut her phone off and go to sleep? Maybe even a comment that she was going to call off work the next day?

I've just started following this case, but based on the comments of everyone here, I would wonder if this guy is cool and quick enough to think through all the emotion and concoct this complicated type of stuff to try to effect a coverup.

SchoolgirlShamus
08-31-2011, 02:00 PM
You quoted the bold part of my post above.
Schoolgirl - First, I should have made my IF REALLY BIG (because it was meant to imply I don't think it is very likely at all)!

Oh that's no problem, I knew it was a big if. I was just addressing the presented ifness. :) I really like the idea of creating possible scenarios then seeing if they hold up according to the facts. It sometimes helps me see the facts in a new and unexpected way, even if my postulated scenario doesn't pan out.

Second, I think the 12:42 am FB comment was the day before but showed up on another wonderful sleuths computer as that night because that person is in Australia.

Ahhhh, that explains a lot. I saw the comment (at least I think it was the same one), but it was time-stamped August 13 10:42 am.

Forth - here is where you really loose me - why would she have to turn the phone off and take the battery out??????

Because in your hypothetical, she and her dog fell asleep... then she was attacked by an intruder who was already hiding in the house and had been waiting for them to sleep. She can't be texting and sending pics on her phone at quarter till one and then fall asleep in 10 seconds, you know? So it didn't seem possible for your hiding perp who's waiting for her to sleep to disable the phone immediately after she last used it.

Fifth- You say then she had to fall asleep - not sure that would be necessary either - she could have been in bathroom or just laid down - if an intruder was in the house her being asleep would make it easier maybe, but not be required.

In your hypothetical scenario, you had the perp hiding and waiting till she and her dog fell asleep... that's why I proceeded with that assumption.

Lastly - you said she would have to do something unusual for her turn off her phone - again, why would she have to be the one to turn off phone

Because of the time stamp, and the delay that must occur after her last phone activity if you hypothesize that the perp was hiding in the house waiting for her to fall asleep before coming out of hiding to do anything to her phone, or to her.

and how do we know she didn't do that every night??????

We don't know. But I have seen a family member of JC and a friend of KM say she virtually never turned off her phone. Probably 95% of the people I know almost never turn off their phones.

Besides, it does seem slightly weird to send a text (pic of yourself, presumably wanting a response) and then INSTANTLY turn off the phone. But it could happen.

Regarding the battery, I'm not sure if LE can tell if the battery was actually taken out/destroyed, or the phone was merely turned off. I have heard people claiming both scenarios quite firmly! So I was including that as a possibility because LE's statement that they know the the phone and GPS went dead around 12:45 am COULD mean the battery was taken out.

Hope that helps, sorry for any confusion. :)

cluciano63
08-31-2011, 02:11 PM
OT but the video of JC last night...I loved the cat doing his thing scratching on the couch while they filmed...

(On a horrible note, I woke up to the news that a neighbor found half of her cat in her yard yesterday...:( no one is sure what happened but there were no signs of another animal attacking her. OMG, I am always worried about my cat getting out as there have also been people who "shock" cats nearby...sick ,sick sick... :( )

Joe Friday
08-31-2011, 02:11 PM
Well I must say I had a run in on FB with JC's aunt yesterday and can I just say....well no I can't say what I want to say or I'll get a time out. I don't understand how this family is representing him. I understand "standing by" your family member BUT I don't understand the personal attacks.

I am now up to 10 people who have sent me private messages on FB saying they are afraid to post because of the attacks but pointing out some pretty good stuff, a lot of which we have already pointed out here.

1. The weather
2. I guess people who have had contact with JC in the community prior to this say he's just not motivated, pretty "laid back", the word lazy has been used.
3. I have heard from some local searchers that are VERY reputable that JC goes to the searchers BUT he doesn't search, but his aunt is claiming he has messed up an old injury from all the searching he is doing...again haven't seen it with my own eyes.

JC broke his ankle/leg earlier this year. This is a picture he posted on his FB page. In the caption he says "X ray my left leg".

Someone commented up thread or in the last thread that his feet hurt when he walks during the searches and he quit searching or something to that effect. I would imagine this is also why and also the injury the aunt is talking about.

JMO

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/246823_237915666222812_100000131426808_1206232_653 9977_n.jpg

Sphere
08-31-2011, 02:27 PM
Here's another question that turns things topsy-turvy.

Suppose that KM and JC did get into an argument and he did (accidentally) hurt or KO her?

If he's so much in love with her, why didn't he immediately call emergency services?

I don't know if this helps the case either way since it either makes JC really guilty or really innocent....O.o

Also, regarding the ankle injury- do we know when he broke it? If so, I can put my mad SPT skills to use and *try* to give us an idea of if that's legit or an alibi...:)

pynkphysh
08-31-2011, 02:35 PM
Compelling arguments that it's not JC:
1. He's been cleared by Nancy Grace's professionals as not having the profile type
2. He lives with others (law abiding citizens that already consider KM family) that would see any indication of foul play (eg if my brother came home bruised/bloody/etc. and the next day reports his darling GF missing, I don't care about my blood ties, I'm reporting his a**.)
3. No adult criminal history (I can't find a bit of dirt on him at Butler, Warren or Hamilton County clerk of court sites). No fraud, no violence, no drug use associated with violence (meth, crack, heroin, etc.).
4. Zero history of violent or abusive behavior in the relationship (in fact, we have evidence of a very supportive, affectionate relationship). No evidence of controlling behavior.
5. No signs of real LE investigation into him (just some polygraphs and checking his car, no formal warrants, etc.).
6. Fully cooperating with LE and helping with searches (minus recently due to injury).

Joe Friday
08-31-2011, 02:37 PM
Here's another question that turns things topsy-turvy.

Suppose that KM and JC did get into an argument and he did (accidentally) hurt or KO her?

If he's so much in love with her, why didn't he immediately call emergency services?

I don't know if this helps the case either way since it either makes JC really guilty or really innocent....O.o

Also, regarding the ankle injury- do we know when he broke it? If so, I can put my mad SPT skills to use and *try* to give us an idea of if that's legit or an alibi...:)

BBM

On March 21st he writes he has been wearing a cast for a month and a half. So that would put the injury around Feb 1st.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000131426808&sk=wall&closeTheater=1

cluciano63
08-31-2011, 02:38 PM
Compelling arguments that it's not JC:
1. He's been cleared by Nancy Grace's professionals as not having the profile type
2. He lives with others (law abiding citizens that already consider KM family) that would see any indication of foul play (eg if my brother came home bruised/bloody/etc. and the next day reports his darling GF missing, I don't care about my blood ties, I'm reporting his a**.)
3. No adult criminal history (I can't find a bit of dirt on him at Butler, Warren or Hamilton County clerk of court sites). No fraud, no violence, no drug use associated with violence (meth, crack, heroin, etc.).
4. Zero history of violent or abusive behavior in the relationship (in fact, we have evidence of a very supportive, affectionate relationship). No evidence of controlling behavior.
5. No signs of real LE investigation into him (just some polygraphs and checking his car, no formal warrants, etc.).
6. Fully cooperating with LE and helping with searches (minus recently due to injury).

Again, while I don't really think JC did anything to her, most of the above can apply to Scott Peterson in the early part of Lacy's being missing...JMO

Darcyline
08-31-2011, 02:40 PM
Did we ever confirm if her GPS was turned off separately or if it just turned off when the phone was turned off?