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jjenny
09-06-2011, 08:29 PM
Morag, I have thought about this over the past several days, and I can only hope that the "ruling" on Friday might be a way to try to draw the real killer out. Maybe they feel like they're dealing with someone egotistical or who would eventually want to take credit or be known for having done this. The suicide ruling would probably get their goat.

LE doesn't operate this way. Nothing to suggest anyone is trying to draw anyone out.

Plumeria5
09-06-2011, 08:29 PM
I still have more questions than I do answers even after LE gave their "presentation" and after reading the autopsy report (thank you to Carioca for posting it!!).

1. There are two knives in the room. So why go through the trouble of the elaborate nude hanging with hands and feet bound where you have to go over a balcony railing to commit suicide instead of using one of those knives to cut your wrists?

2. The areas of blood under the skin on the top of her head. I don't see how anyone can hit the top of their head 3 or 4 times on something to cause those during a hanging that is a suicide. She wasn't hanging by her waist or her feet for her head to be able to hit the wall (top of her head that is) while possibly struggling so how did they get there?

3. In the autopsy report it states that the binding on the wrists was loose enough on the left wrist so that she could remove her left hand (after binding them in front of her body) and place them behind her back and place her left wrist back through the hole so that it is bound again. Now, if a person was going to bind their wrists so that they would not "save themselves" would they make it possible for one hand to be removed? If she could remove her left wrist to put it behind her back she could remove her left wrist to "save herself".

4. The message on the door in black paint. It reads (according to the autopsy) "She saved him can you save her". Clearly the "him" is not the same person the author is referring to as "you" otherwise it would read She saved him can he save her. If the author was RZ (I don't believe it was but let's say she wrote it) and it was a message meant for Jonah then would it not read She saved you can you save her? If (as I believe) it was a message to Jonah from the person that killed Rebecca then I can see the message being as written. Rebecca saved Max by performing CPR and getting him the required help he needed so She Saved Him. Then the author is asking Jonah if Jonah can save her, Rebecca, from her death at the hands of the author so Can You Save Her.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with Rebecca's family not accepting this (IMO farce of an) investigation. There are clearly things that do not add up and that have not been explained. They are entitled to that and frankly Rebecca deserves that.

MOO

I agree with your analysis of the note on the door. What puzzles me though is if you write "She saved him" sounds like the writer is speaking in a positive tone about Rebecca but then "Can you save her?" is written in a threatening, negative tone about Rebecca.
I guess Rebecca could have written it as she is saying that she saved Max with CPR but Jonah has turned on her and he isn't there for her when she is hurting. IDK

Paladine
09-06-2011, 08:31 PM
But the family doesnt even seem to suspect AS. They seem more honed in on Dina, imo. The sister said that AS had taken a poly and passed and they wanted the others to take polys.

Why would a 'perp' volunteer information to LE about a part of the t-shirt was found in her mouth when he found her and cut her down?:waitasec:

It seems to me Adam has been very honest and forthright.

IMO

I'm way behind...apologies for being OT, a bit.

I have also had Dina on my mind...but because it's one doesn't mean it there couldn't be another, too. One perp, two perps, and a clean up crew...I have no idea, yet, conclusively.

I just know it's murder, imo.

BTW: I jumped two feet off the bed when this case came on NG! :) I am off to send a thank you note to her for covering it, and to find an email for my friend, Nancy, I gotta tweet, too...oh, so much to do, I start back to work tomorrow...early to bed and I might get an hour here to read, first. :woohoo:

Hearing NG saying, "WE want this case re-opened...?! WELL :great: ...Christmas x3! I love that ballsy woman. :rocker:

jjenny
09-06-2011, 08:31 PM
Undocumented workers are not at all uncommon in CA ir AZ for that matter. I would still like to know who it was seen leaving/packing bags after the accidents occured.

The gym trainer said RN would bring Max with her. It sure doesn't sound to me like there were any nannies, or why would she take the child to the gym?

jjenny
09-06-2011, 08:33 PM
I agree with your analysis of the note on the door. What puzzles me though is if you write "She saved him" sounds like the writer is speaking in a positive tone but then "Can you save her?" is written in a threatening, negative tone.
I guess Rebecca could have written it as she is saying that she saved Max with CPR but Jonah has turned on her and he isn't there for her when she is hurting. IDK

But she knew she didn't save Max, if it's true that she got the voice mail message saying Max was not going to make it. The message would make more sense if it said SHE DIDN'T SAVE HIM. As it is, I don't understand who is that she saved.

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 08:39 PM
This is what I would like to know...

In the first minutes after LE arrived, HAD they found a nude woman, minus ropes, noose, gag, lying dead in grass under a balcony, I can imagine they would immediately ponder PUSHED...or JUMPED?? Murder or Suicide?

But that was NOT the case! What they discovered was a nude woman who was bound at the ankles and feet, noose around her neck, gag around her throat and stuffed in her mouth...

I wanna know WHO exactly FIRST stated, "You know, Bob, looks like it could be a suicide to me..."..

Because I was watching CNN when this story initially broke and the media was IMMEDIATELY reporting it was a possible suicide...

WHO first suggested that theory....cause that certainly wouldn't have been my immediate possibe theory prior to extensive crime scene examination and interviews!!!

InTheGarden
09-06-2011, 08:42 PM
First, I would like to thank all the people who have contributed to these threads on Rebecca and Max. I have learned so much and it has really helped me in critical thinking.

Second, so many of the contributers here are quite bright and bring many different ideas to the table. You amaze me!

There is a precious little six-year-old boy missing from Portland, Oregon. Many of you know about Kyron Horman. I invite all of you to put your minds together to help solve this case.

I am new to this whole blogging thing. Haven't a clue on how to get anything started. Is there any interest out there?

gemvt
09-06-2011, 08:45 PM
The autopsy report is a terrible read, but strangely, perhaps, I am still leaning towards suicide. I think that most of the abrasions and blood can be explained by her swinging into the plants/house after jumping. That balcony is not very far out from the house. I think that "She saved him can you save her" is a little less cryptic than "...can he save her" (although just barely). It doesn't sound like there is a huge amount of blood even thought there seem to be a lot of abrasions/cuts/bruises.

I still think that Dina has always hated Rebecca and what happened to her son increased that a thousandfold. There is no way that she would have tolerated Rebecca's appearance at the hospital. Jonah's measured statements since then regarding Rebecca are possibly in deference to Dina's rage and grief.

Honestly, even though it's possible that these people are less than stellar human beings, I don't see any of them as murderers. And not to bash the victim here, but we don't really know what Rebecca was like as a person, either.

As an aside, the photo of the door on the sheriff's website is definitely manipulated by photoshop. That is not actual white paint covering the message. Look at the edges of the "paint" for proof.

this is all IMO

justice be served
09-06-2011, 08:45 PM
Why on Earth would he step down from his own company WHEN there is not one piece of evidence linking him to either death?

This is not an original idea. News reports came out - and if I recall were headlined - suggesting the idea that Shacknai may have to step down. This was many weeks ago when Rebecca's body was first found. I simply think these new inflammatory reports will force their hand to do so. Simple business decision to uphold the value of the corporation. I can try to find the old article.

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 08:45 PM
LE doesn't operate this way. Nothing to suggest anyone is trying to draw anyone out.

I am a huge supporter of LE in general (due to family background) but if I were a member of Rebecca's family, I may just want to have our investigators take a little lookie loo into the backgrounds of some of the top officials of this department as well...

Just sayin....

Cause I am just not convinced that this is being rushed to judgment based strictly on the income level of the community and Jonah personally....

Plumeria5
09-06-2011, 08:46 PM
But she knew she didn't save Max, if it's true that she got the voice mail message saying Max was not going to make it. The message would make more sense if it said SHE DIDN'T SAVE HIM. As it is, I don't understand who is that she saved.

Is it true that Rebecca told her sister she was visiting Max that morning she died? Read it somewhere not sure if that was true or not.

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 08:47 PM
She dropped 9 feet. How did she get the head injuries? If she dropped 9 feet then I don't expect that much bounce for her head to hit the balcony?

Carioca, thank you so much for posting the link!! I am disheartened after reading this, to think that LE did not further question Rebecca's death.

I have said for awhile now that I don't believe that Rebecca could have hit her head four times on the supports of the balcony, or that these types of wounds could occur by hitting the wall. I am more sure about that now. This rope was made for towing, not bouncing like a bungee jumper.

One more reason to add to the list. I can not believe that any woman would kill herself nude, while Aunt Flo was around. That is not a thing that anyone would think was ok in any way.

I hope and pray that Rebecca's family pursues this until they feel comfortable with the findings.

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 08:48 PM
4 hemorages as reported by jean on Nancy Grace....Man if JS and LE thought this was going away they were wrong!

So are you saying you think Jonah killed Rebecca?

IMO

jstwondering
09-06-2011, 08:48 PM
I agree with your analysis of the note on the door. What puzzles me though is if you write "She saved him" sounds like the writer is speaking in a positive tone about Rebecca but then "Can you save her?" is written in a threatening, negative tone about Rebecca.
I guess Rebecca could have written it as she is saying that she saved Max with CPR but Jonah has turned on her and he isn't there for her when she is hurting. IDK

I don't know if you caught my earlier post, but I don't take "She saved him" as positive at all. I take it as sarcastic. If you imagine that a mom is at her son's bedside and accuses a dad's girlfriend of causing the injury, the dad could have said something like...
What are you talking about???? She didn't cause this injury... She SAVED him. She performed CPR. She called 911. You should be grateful...
IMO that would be just about enough to drive someone over the edge when she hears bad prognosis for her son.

So then the person that painted the note sarcastically said, She saved him, can you save her? Obviously, no. YOU CAN'T IMO

Plumeria5
09-06-2011, 08:53 PM
I don't know if you caught my earlier post, but I don't take "She saved him" as positive at all. I take it as sarcastic. If you imagine that a mom is at her son's bedside and accuses a dad's girlfriend of causing the injury, the dad could have said something like...
What are you talking about???? She didn't cause this injury... She SAVED him. She performed CPR. She called 911. You should be grateful...
IMO that would be just about enough to drive someone over the edge when she hears bad prognosis for her son.

So then the person that painted the note sarcastically said, She saved him, can you save her? Obviously, no. YOU CAN'T IMO

Maybe it was meant to be sarcastic. That makes more sense. Hiring someone to kill Rebecca?

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 08:55 PM
The gym trainer said RN would bring Max with her. It sure doesn't sound to me like there were any nannies, or why would she take the child to the gym?

Agreed, in less they had a play area that Max enjoyed playing in. I used to take my daughter, even when her Dad was home as she enjoyed it so much.

I really don't think there were nannies. I think there was household help, at least a cleaning woman once or twice a week, a garden service. I still can not help but think that the people leaving the day Rebecca was found, were employees. No one is saying, that's for sure. But if they were not in the guest house, with AS, wouldn't they have been in the caretakers home?

Also, if they were there that night, did they hear the music, didn't they check to see if everything was ok? This is certainly strange in a lot of ways.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 08:55 PM
Is it true that Rebecca told her sister she was visiting Max that morning she died? Read it somewhere not sure if that was true or not.

She told the sister she was going to bring JS fresh clothes. She was apparently not allowed inside the hospital because DS did not want her there.

TorisMom003
09-06-2011, 08:56 PM
So are you saying you think Jonah killed Rebecca?

IMO

I'm sorry but asking if the poster thinks that Jonah killed Rebecca simply because they (the poster) stated that if JS and LE thought this was going away they were wrong would be like asking if the poster thinks that LE killed Rebecca. The way I read that post is that both LE and JS have an interest in this case being put away as quietly and quickly as possible and neither are responsible for her death. LE will have their officers looked at even more closely to see if there is anything hinky going on in the department. JS will lose money and possibly even his position at his company. Both parties have alot to gain and/or lose but none of them equal murder.

MOO

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 08:58 PM
She told the sister she was going to bring JS fresh clothes. She was apparently not allowed inside the hospital because DS did not want her there.

But she also called the boarding center that morning inquiring about boarding her dog...

So I have to wonder if perhaps she was about to make a stand and show up at the hospital anyway....kinda a situation where she puts Jonah in a position of "choose me or her"????

I wonder if she wasn't making plans to camp out at hospital whether they wanted her there or not (especially since we now know that messages to her at this point were positive towards the son's possible recovery)?

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 08:59 PM
I think it was a taunting message left by Rebecca. Since the message was on the inside of the home maybe she expected Jonah to come home when he could not get her to answer the phone.

I think she meant she saved him from a life of loneliness when she came into his life but she knew once he read this message on the door he would not be able to save her. She wanted him to know that. Even though he was powerful and a take charge man he couldn't stop this from happening.

I think she resented that she was left out .....unable to even visit Max at the hospital. It left her totally isolated with time to dwell on the loneliness she felt. She knew nothing was ever going to be the same again.

IMO

jjenny
09-06-2011, 08:59 PM
This is what I would like to know...

In the first minutes after LE arrived, HAD they found a nude woman, minus ropes, noose, gag, lying dead in grass under a balcony, I can imagine they would immediately ponder PUSHED...or JUMPED?? Murder or Suicide?

But that was NOT the case! What they discovered was a nude woman who was bound at the ankles and feet, noose around her neck, gag around her throat and stuffed in her mouth...

I wanna know WHO exactly FIRST stated, "You know, Bob, looks like it could be a suicide to me..."..

Because I was watching CNN when this story initially broke and the media was IMMEDIATELY reporting it was a possible suicide...

WHO first suggested that theory....cause that certainly wouldn't have been my immediate possibe theory prior to extensive crime scene examination and interviews!!!

What I find most interesting is that according to RN's sister, JS was saying this was a suicide right from the start. Her sister doesn't believe it's a suicide. Her ex-husband doesn't appear to believe it's a suicide (and they were married for years). But JS apparently just believed it was suicide even before the investigation.

deanna82437
09-06-2011, 09:00 PM
Is it true that Rebecca told her sister she was visiting Max that morning she died? Read it somewhere not sure if that was true or not.

I've not seen that referenced anywhere. Do you have a link to where you saw it?

justice be served
09-06-2011, 09:01 PM
I think he may very well step down so that he can pursue legal action over all these accusations and innuendo.

JMO

Yes, JS may certainly step down from Medicis and pursue legal accusations. He absolutely has the right to do that. Just as Rebecca's family has the right to pursue their misgivings about the suicide ruling.

And if it is proven that JS is innocent of everything, more power to him to clear his name. I would think that he has the San Diego LE to "thank" for the uprising that has now taken place after Friday's PC. It wasn't served up very well at all.

And finally, I, for one, would like to think that neither one of these deaths were purposeful. They are just tragedies.

tiredblondy
09-06-2011, 09:01 PM
So are you saying you think Jonah killed Rebecca?

IMO

No Ocean...I do not think JS did it. I do think for his company, he is hoping to get it swept under the table as soon as possible. That is what is so troubling to me. It's like Rebecca was a minor blip on his screen.


As I have said in previous posts...there is much more than meets the eye here. There's a lot the public doesn't know.

All this is my opinion only.

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 09:02 PM
Just curious...

Have there been any media reports concerning the relationship between Adam (brother) and Dina (ex wife) during the last couple of years?

In most divorce situations, family members seem to take sides, especially when domestic violence is involved, so am curious what the relationship was, if any, between these two? Foes or enemies?

Has there been any comment about the relationship between Adam and Rebecca?

justice be served
09-06-2011, 09:03 PM
I think he may very well step down so that he can pursue legal action over all these accusations and innuendo.

JMO

Yes, JS may certainly step down from Medicis and pursue legal accusations. He absolutely has the right to do that. Just as Rebecca's family has the right to pursue their misgivings about the suicide ruling.

And if it is proven that JS is innocent of everything, more power to him to clear his name. I would think that he has the San Diego LE to "thank" for the uprising that has now taken place after Friday's PC. It wasn't served up very well at all.

And finally, I, for one, would like to think that neither one of these deaths were purposeful. They are just tragedies.

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 09:03 PM
Just curious...

Have there been any media reports concerning the relationship between Adam (brother) and Dina (ex wife) during the last couple of years?

In most divorce situations, family members seem to take sides, especially when domestic violence is involved, so am curious what the relationship was, if any, between these two? Foes or enemies?

Has there been any comment about the relationship between Adam and Rebecca?

revampz
09-06-2011, 09:03 PM
I don't know if you caught my earlier post, but I don't take "She saved him" as positive at all. I take it as sarcastic. If you imagine that a mom is at her son's bedside and accuses a dad's girlfriend of causing the injury, the dad could have said something like...
What are you talking about???? She didn't cause this injury... She SAVED him. She performed CPR. She called 911. You should be grateful...
IMO that would be just about enough to drive someone over the edge when she hears bad prognosis for her son.

So then the person that painted the note sarcastically said, She saved him, can you save her? Obviously, no. YOU CAN'T IMO

You could be right here because if she wrote this and she just got a supposed phone girl saying he wouldnt make it, who did she think she saved???? because he wasnt saved.

The only other thing is that max had not died yet, I am very interested in this last phone call.......does anyone know if the police actually heard it or was it just Jonah who told them that it was him telling her max wasnt going to make it??

I am still wondering if it wasnt a more threatening phone call from either JS or DS saying something along the lines of you will pay for this, jail blah blah blah, as we know DS thinks RN killed Max.

As max was not yet dead maybe she wasnt told of his impending death in that phone call and she was a bit peeved of and the note on the wall meant.....but I saved him!!!I just cant see the message relating to saving JS....

deanna82437
09-06-2011, 09:04 PM
Dr. Drew is covering it on HLN now.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 09:06 PM
I think it was a taunting message left by Rebecca. Since the message was on the inside of the home maybe she expected Jonah to come home when he could not get her to answer the phone.

I think she meant she saved him from a life of loneliness when she came into his life but she knew once he read this message on the door he would not be able to save her. She wanted him to know that. Even though he was powerful and a take charge man he couldn't stop this from happening.

I think she resented that she was left out .....unable to even visit Max at the hospital. It left her totally isolated with time to dwell on the loneliness she felt. She knew nothing was ever going to be the same again.

IMO

The message is addressed to a different person from the one she (whoever she is) saved. She saved HIM Can YOU save her. There HIM and YOU appear to be two different people. So far sarcastic interpretation makes the most sense to me (she saved him (meaning RN saved Max (yea, right, he is going to die) can you save her (no she is going to die too)).

Plumeria5
09-06-2011, 09:06 PM
I've not seen that referenced anywhere. Do you have a link to where you saw it?

Sorry, I don't know where I saw it.

InTheGarden
09-06-2011, 09:08 PM
First, I would like to thank all the people who have contributed to these threads on Rebecca and Max. I have learned so much and it has really helped me in critical thinking.

Second, so many of the contributers here are quite bright and bring many different ideas to the table. You amaze me!

There is a precious little six-year-old boy missing from Portland, Oregon. Many of you know about Kyron Horman. I invite all of you to put your minds together to help solve this case.

I am new to this whole blogging thing. Haven't a clue on how to get anything started. Is there any interest out there?

Mea culpa. Threads on Kyron already exist in Featured Case Discussion. All you critial thinking heavyweights, please stop by his thread when you have a chance.

gemvt
09-06-2011, 09:08 PM
What I find most interesting is that according to RN's sister, JS was saying this was a suicide right from the start. Her sister doesn't believe it's a suicide. Her ex-husband doesn't appear to believe it's a suicide (and they were married for years). But JS apparently just believed it was suicide even before the investigation.

If I was told by LE or my brother or whomever informed Jonah of Rebecca's death that she was found hanging from the balcony at the house, I would presume that she had committed suicide as well.

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 09:09 PM
You could be right here because if she wrote this and she just got a supposed phone girl saying he wouldnt make it, who did she think she saved???? because he wasnt saved.

The only other thing is that max had not died yet, I am very interested in this last phone call.......does anyone know if the police actually heard it or was it just Jonah who told them that it was him telling her max wasnt going to make it??

I am still wondering if it wasnt a more threatening phone call from either JS or DS saying something along the lines of you will pay for this, jail blah blah blah, as we know DS thinks RN killed Max.

As max was not yet dead maybe she wasnt told of his impending death in that phone call and she was a bit peeved of and the message was meant.....but I saved him!!!

I just cant see the message relating to saving JS....

He could have died at the scene. If she performed CPR she did save him. That night they may have decided not to continue life-support. Rebecca may have been against that for religious reasons. So she was being blamed for his death when in actuality it was a heart-wrenching moral decision by the parents.

deanna82437
09-06-2011, 09:10 PM
Sister just states on Dr. Drew message was "She saved him. Can HE save her?"

October
09-06-2011, 09:12 PM
What I find most interesting is that according to RN's sister, JS was saying this was a suicide right from the start. Her sister doesn't believe it's a suicide. Her ex-husband doesn't appear to believe it's a suicide (and they were married for years). But JS apparently just believed it was suicide even before the investigation.

Perhaps it was a logical conclusion to draw after the message he left her. Only JS knows what was said in it and how it may have influenced her actions.

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 09:15 PM
What I find most interesting is that according to RN's sister, JS was saying this was a suicide right from the start. Her sister doesn't believe it's a suicide. Her ex-husband doesn't appear to believe it's a suicide (and they were married for years). But JS apparently just believed it was suicide even before the investigation.

The police also said at the time that it was a violent, and suspicious death. I think they were covering themselves and didn't want the media thinking that it was not a suicide. From the very start it was clear that this was going to be a high-profile case.

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 09:15 PM
Sister just states on Dr. Drew message was "She saved him. Can HE save her?"

Wonder what the message truly was. Maybe the family has pictures from LE?

tlneedham
09-06-2011, 09:17 PM
BBM
Sis, is this you? Just kidding, because my sister is computer phobic. My sister and I walk every morning, and she said the EXACT same things this morning. I totally agree with your post. I try to keep an open mind, and love reading everyone's theories, but I just HAD TO thank your post in person, because you said what I believe much better than I could.

Nope, I doubt it! I didn't go for a walk this AM with anyone. But I did say all this on the phone to my mom last night. So maybe it's floating around in the atmosphere somewhere. LOL

I am glad to hear I may not be alone though!

elementry
09-06-2011, 09:17 PM
I am a huge supporter of LE in general (due to family background) but if I were a member of Rebecca's family, I may just want to have our investigators take a little lookie loo into the backgrounds of some of the top officials of this department as well...

Just sayin....

Cause I am just not convinced that this is being rushed to judgment based strictly on the income level of the community and Jonah personally....

Sheriff Gore was definitely the establishment candidate, out-raising his opponents by 5 and 6 to 1 in the 2010 election. First appointed and then seemingly handpicked by the community and county insiders. These give a little idea:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080713/news_1m13sheriff.html
http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/node/1919
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jun/09/gore-rolls-past-challengers-in-sheriffs-race/
http://www.kpbs.org/news/2010/apr/21/election-san-diego-county-sheriffs-race/

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 09:20 PM
What I find most interesting is that according to RN's sister, JS was saying this was a suicide right from the start. Her sister doesn't believe it's a suicide. Her ex-husband doesn't appear to believe it's a suicide (and they were married for years). But JS apparently just believed it was suicide even before the investigation.

I dont think that is odd that he said that. He may know more than anyone that Rebecca was under a lot of stress at the time.

IMO

Curious Me
09-06-2011, 09:21 PM
Jen Hegar on Dr. Drew wants to know why AS fingerprints weren't anyplace on the rope if he was the one that cut RZ down.

tiredblondy
09-06-2011, 09:21 PM
So are you saying you think Jonah killed Rebecca?

IMO

No Ocean, I do not think Jonah did it. I have my own idea who did it...if... it was murder but I'm keeping that to myself for now.

I do think JS is worried about his company and what upsets me is it's like Rebecca was just a blip on the screen.

He could have expressed his remorse about her death in a more personal way rather than a PR statement including he and Dina. This was the woman he has been in a relationship with for the last 2 years! I understand the loss of his child was devastating but to lose her too!!

I seriously think that JS and his PR firm think if they keep quoting the LE's information it will go away.

Dr. Drew is covering it right now.

Another thing is that LE seems (to me) to have repeated what AS told them what happened. So that says to me the original scene was tampered with.

Wow a suicide expert on Dr Drew just said that now they have more questions than ever.

Dr. Drew has some good info and good questions.

For example if Adam cut her down how is that his DNA is not on the rope too???

It is just a matter of time before JS's PR representative is on here if not already disguised as a member.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 09:23 PM
Sister just states on Dr. Drew message was "She saved him. Can HE save her?"

I think that's what the sister remembers from being shown the message. But the message must have been She saved him Can you save her because that's what in the reports.

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 09:23 PM
I think it was a taunting message left by Rebecca. Since the message was on the inside of the home maybe she expected Jonah to come home when he could not get her to answer the phone.

I think she meant she saved him from a life of loneliness when she came into his life but she knew once he read this message on the door he would not be able to save her. She wanted him to know that. Even though he was powerful and a take charge man he couldn't stop this from happening.

I think she resented that she was left out .....unable to even visit Max at the hospital. It left her totally isolated with time to dwell on the loneliness she felt. She knew nothing was ever going to be the same again.

IMO

So Rebecca's sister is saying on HLN that the message was 'She saved him - Can he saved her'

She didn't let Max die at the scene. If she knew based on the last VM that Max was dead/dying and she believed that taking her own life would send her to hell - wouldn't she want her soul saved?

coastal
09-06-2011, 09:24 PM
I copied the following from page 2 (of 3) of the Investigative Narrative: Scene Description, written by Dana Gary, Medical Examiner Investigator, on 08/21/2011:

>>>snip

…The main house was a multi room, multi bathroom dwelling which appeared clean and organized. The guest house consisted of two bedrooms. One of the rooms had a suitcase and the other room had an unmade bed, a few pieces of women’s clothing on the floor, make up wipes on the dresser and a glass with a clear liquid on the night stand. We were escorted upstairs and I noted black painted writings on the bedroom door that led into the room with the balcony...

<<<snip

Bold mine.

This sounds like Rebecca intended to spend the night in the guesthouse. She took off her makeup, poured a glass of water, and undressed before going bed…and what? She checked her messages, got one she didn’t like…so she wrapped herself in a towel, stalked off to the garage to find a handy tow rope, then entered the big house by way of the kitchen in order to grab a few butcher knives and a tube of paint (and two paintbrushes) on her way up to that cute little guestroom with the handy balcony just right for throwing oneself over, where she painted a little nonsense for her loved ones to remember her by, dropped the towel, cut three lengths of rope, wrapped these around herself and the foot of the bed, and dove off the balcony?

I don't believe that. I don't know what to think, but I don't think it went like that.

If she had moved to the guest house, she either didn’t want to be alone in that big, sad, house just yet, and so sought Adam’s company, or someone suggested she should do so.

MOO

Rest in peace, Rebecca. I'm sorry you are gone.

Curious Me
09-06-2011, 09:24 PM
Sister says there was no "you" in the message.

"She Saved Him, Can He Save Her"

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 09:25 PM
I think that's what the sister remembers from being shown the message. But the message must have been She saved him Can you save her because that's what in the reports.

The report defers to photographs in several parts from other reports. We need to see a photograph of the message to be certain.

Paladine
09-06-2011, 09:26 PM
But she knew she didn't save Max, if it's true that she got the voice mail message saying Max was not going to make it. The message would make more sense if it said SHE DIDN'T SAVE HIM. As it is, I don't understand who is that she saved.

Hate to post and run but I must...just food for thought...

A scenario: Maybe Rebecca (she) saved Jonah (him) from something but could Jonah (he) save Rebecca (her)?

Ideas: Maybe there was a cover up of some sort with Maxies death, maybe Jonah was somehow responsible...or someone felt he was...and someone felt Rebecca possibly lied or did something to 'save' him'? And maybe someone wasn't very happy, shall we say, about that...

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 09:26 PM
The message is addressed to a different person from the one she (whoever she is) saved. She saved HIM Can YOU save her. There HIM and YOU appear to be two different people. So far sarcastic interpretation makes the most sense to me (she saved him (meaning RN saved Max (yea, right, he is going to die) can you save her (no she is going to die too)).

It could just be a language barrier.

Curious Me
09-06-2011, 09:26 PM
The complete autopsy reports can be obtained by writing to the ME office. I have a copy. After reading it, it is absolutely mind boggling that LE closed this case saying it was a suicide. Extremely important information that was not made public nor mentioned at the briefing. If I knew how to post it here, I would.

Just want to thank you, Carioca.

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 09:26 PM
Jen Hegar on Dr. Drew wants to know why AS fingerprints weren't anyplace on the rope if he was the one that cut RZ down.

Thank you!! This so reminds me of the JonBenet Ramsey case, where only unknown DNA was found on her longjohns. Huh?:waitasec: Her Mom stated she dressed her that night and John carried her upstairs. Where is their DNA. This case reminds me of that case on so many levels!

x_files
09-06-2011, 09:26 PM
I copied the following from page 2 (of 3) of the Investigative Narrative: Scene Description, written by Dana Gary, Medical Examiner Investigator, on 08/21/2011:

>>>snip

…The main house was a multi room, multi bathroom dwelling which appeared clean and organized. The guest house consisted of two bedrooms. One of the rooms had a suitcase and the other room had an unmade bed, a few pieces of women’s clothing on the floor, make up wipes on the dresser and a glass with a clear liquid on the night stand. We were escorted upstairs and I noted black painted writings on the bedroom door that led into the room with the balcony...

<<<snip

Bold mine.

This sounds like Rebecca intended to spend the night in the guesthouse. She took off her makeup, poured a glass of water, and undressed before going bed…and what? She checked her messages, got one she didn’t like…so she wrapped herself in a towel, stalked off to the garage to find a handy tow rope, then entered the big house by way of the kitchen in order to grab a few butcher knives and a tube of paint (and two paintbrushes) on her way up to that cute little guestroom with the handy balcony just right for throwing oneself over, where she painted a little nonsense for her loved ones to remember her by, dropped the towel, cut three lengths of rope, wrapped these around herself and the foot of the bed, and dove off the balcony?

I don't believe that. I don't know what to think, but I don't think it went like that.

If she had moved to the guest house, she either didn’t want to be alone in that big, sad, house just yet, and so sought Adam’s company, or someone suggested she should do so.

MOO

Rest in peace, Rebecca. I'm sorry you are gone.

Interesting...

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 09:27 PM
Sheriff Gore was definitely the establishment candidate, out-raising his opponents by 5 and 6 to 1 in the 2010 election. First appointed and then seemingly handpicked by the community and county insiders. These give a little idea:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080713/news_1m13sheriff.html
http://www.eastcountymagazine.org/node/1919
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/jun/09/gore-rolls-past-challengers-in-sheriffs-race/
http://www.kpbs.org/news/2010/apr/21/election-san-diego-county-sheriffs-race/

Not being accusatory of him, but doesn't necessarily mean he is squeaky clean...

Tiger Woods was supposively the squeeky clean golfer, but.....nuff said.

Is also interesting to do a little reading on google concerning corruption and SDSD and Coronado PD...

Just adding theory to the mix...

katydid23
09-06-2011, 09:31 PM
Jen Hegar on Dr. Drew wants to know why AS fingerprints weren't anyplace on the rope if he was the one that cut RZ down.

One thing I have learned from watching a million episodes of 'the first 48' and 'forensic files' etc etc is that not everything is found to have corresponding DNA on it. Sometimes not enough transfers or does not stick or is not found by the examiners.

Also, if I imagine him tippytoe stretch to reach it and cut her down, was he really grasping the rope anywhere for long? And maybe he thought of the potential crime scene and had gloves on. If he was going out for a walk on the beach that early in the morning he may have had them with him anyway.

deanna82437
09-06-2011, 09:33 PM
Wonder what the message truly was. Maybe the family has pictures from LE?

I don't know about pictures. She didn't say, but was very emphatic about what it actually said. Like she knew it had been mentioned the other way. This was the sister, Mary. The transcripts should be up later.

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 09:35 PM
One thing I have learned from watching a million episodes of 'the first 48' and 'forensic files' etc etc is that not everything is found to have corresponding DNA on it. Sometimes not enough transfers or does not stick or is not found by the examiners.

Also, if I imagine him tippytoe stretch to reach it and cut her down, was he really grasping the rope anywhere for long? And maybe he thought of the potential crime scene and had gloves on. If he was going out for a walk on the beach that early in the morning he may have had them with him anyway.

Also if he works on a tugboat his hands take a beating from the vigorous work he does. This dries the oils out of the hands and they become very hard...dry ..even calloused and its oils in the skin that will leave DNA behind the best.

IMO

jjenny
09-06-2011, 09:35 PM
One thing I have learned from watching a million episodes of 'the first 48' and 'forensic files' etc etc is that not everything is found to have corresponding DNA on it. Sometimes not enough transfers or does not stick or is not found by the examiners.

Also, if I imagine him tippytoe stretch to reach it and cut her down, was he really grasping the rope anywhere for long? And maybe he thought of the potential crime scene and had gloves on. If he was going out for a walk on the beach that early in the morning he may have had them with him anyway.

Gloves on? Really? Where would he get those gloves? Why would he need gloves to walk on the beach? If he realized this was a potential crime scene, why would he cut her down to begin with?

tiredblondy
09-06-2011, 09:36 PM
I copied the following from page 2 (of 3) of the Investigative Narrative: Scene Description, written by Dana Gary, Medical Examiner Investigator, on 08/21/2011:

>>>snip

…The main house was a multi room, multi bathroom dwelling which appeared clean and organized. The guest house consisted of two bedrooms. One of the rooms had a suitcase and the other room had an unmade bed, a few pieces of women’s clothing on the floor, make up wipes on the dresser and a glass with a clear liquid on the night stand. We were escorted upstairs and I noted black painted writings on the bedroom door that led into the room with the balcony...

<<<snip

Bold mine.

This sounds like Rebecca intended to spend the night in the guesthouse. She took off her makeup, poured a glass of water, and undressed before going bed…and what? She checked her messages, got one she didn’t like…so she wrapped herself in a towel, stalked off to the garage to find a handy tow rope, then entered the big house by way of the kitchen in order to grab a few butcher knives and a tube of paint (and two paintbrushes) on her way up to that cute little guestroom with the handy balcony just right for throwing oneself over, where she painted a little nonsense for her loved ones to remember her by, dropped the towel, cut three lengths of rope, wrapped these around herself and the foot of the bed, and dove off the balcony?

I don't believe that. I don't know what to think, but I don't think it went like that.

If she had moved to the guest house, she either didn’t want to be alone in that big, sad, house just yet, and so sought Adam’s company, or someone suggested she should do so.

MOO

Rest in peace, Rebecca. I'm sorry you are gone.


I thought Adam was staying in the guesthouse!

Also, did they test the liquid?

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 09:36 PM
One thing I have learned from watching a million episodes of 'the first 48' and 'forensic files' etc etc is that not everything is found to have corresponding DNA on it. Sometimes not enough transfers or does not stick or is not found by the examiners.

Also, if I imagine him tippytoe stretch to reach it and cut her down, was he really grasping the rope anywhere for long? And maybe he thought of the potential crime scene and had gloves on. If he was going out for a walk on the beach that early in the morning he may have had them with him anyway.

She was only 5'3", she was only a little over 2' off the ground and he was on the table. I think he was probably able to grip the rope fairly easily.

Curious Me
09-06-2011, 09:37 PM
Hate to post and run but I must...just food for thought...

A scenario: Maybe Rebecca (she) saved Jonah (him) from something but could Jonah (he) save Rebecca (her)?

Ideas: Maybe there was a cover up of some sort with Maxies death, maybe Jonah was somehow responsible...or someone felt he was...and someone felt Rebecca possibly lied or did something to 'save' him'? And maybe someone wasn't very happy, shall we say, about that...

Maybe the "she" isn't RZ, maybe some other woman saved JS once and now is he going to cover for her.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 09:38 PM
The report defers to photographs in several parts from other reports. We need to see a photograph of the message to be certain.

That would remove all doubt but LE refused to show us the photo. I really wonder why.

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 09:38 PM
I copied the following from page 2 (of 3) of the Investigative Narrative: Scene Description, written by Dana Gary, Medical Examiner Investigator, on 08/21/2011:

>>>snip

…The main house was a multi room, multi bathroom dwelling which appeared clean and organized. The guest house consisted of two bedrooms. One of the rooms had a suitcase and the other room had an unmade bed, a few pieces of women’s clothing on the floor, make up wipes on the dresser and a glass with a clear liquid on the night stand. We were escorted upstairs and I noted black painted writings on the bedroom door that led into the room with the balcony...

<<<snip

Bold mine.

This sounds like Rebecca intended to spend the night in the guesthouse. She took off her makeup, poured a glass of water, and undressed before going bed…and what? She checked her messages, got one she didn’t like…so she wrapped herself in a towel, stalked off to the garage to find a handy tow rope, then entered the big house by way of the kitchen in order to grab a few butcher knives and a tube of paint (and two paintbrushes) on her way up to that cute little guestroom with the handy balcony just right for throwing oneself over, where she painted a little nonsense for her loved ones to remember her by, dropped the towel, cut three lengths of rope, wrapped these around herself and the foot of the bed, and dove off the balcony?
I don't believe that. I don't know what to think, but I don't think it went like that.

If she had moved to the guest house, she either didn’t want to be alone in that big, sad, house just yet, and so sought Adam’s company, or someone suggested she should do so.

MOO

Rest in peace, Rebecca. I'm sorry you are gone.

Very good analogy except you forgot the part where she also wrapped the tshirt around her neck, stuffed an end into her throat, then hit herself on the top of the head (blunt force) FOUR TIMES before throwing herself off the balcony! :banghead:

jjenny
09-06-2011, 09:38 PM
I thought Adam was staying in the guesthouse!

Also, did they test the liquid?

I believe AS was staying in the guest house and he said he last saw RN at 8 pm.

justice be served
09-06-2011, 09:40 PM
One thing I have learned from watching a million episodes of 'the first 48' and 'forensic files' etc etc is that not everything is found to have corresponding DNA on it. Sometimes not enough transfers or does not stick or is not found by the examiners.

Also, if I imagine him tippytoe stretch to reach it and cut her down, was he really grasping the rope anywhere for long? And maybe he thought of the potential crime scene and had gloves on. If he was going out for a walk on the beach that early in the morning he may have had them with him anyway.

It's not that cold to need gloves to walk the beach in San Diego. We sleep all night with our windows open. Hopefully he didn't run in to find gloves before he cut her down. But good thought.

elementry
09-06-2011, 09:40 PM
One thing I have learned from watching a million episodes of 'the first 48' and 'forensic files' etc etc is that not everything is found to have corresponding DNA on it. Sometimes not enough transfers or does not stick or is not found by the examiners.

Also, if I imagine him tippytoe stretch to reach it and cut her down, was he really grasping the rope anywhere for long? And maybe he thought of the potential crime scene and had gloves on. If he was going out for a walk on the beach that early in the morning he may have had them with him anyway.

To me, the gloves idea is a bit of a stretch. He'd take the time to think that one out while in an absolute panic to cut her down? And gloves in San Diego in July? It may be brisk in the morning by the sea, but it's not winter. Gloves for some other reason may be possible.

Paladine
09-06-2011, 09:40 PM
The complete autopsy reports can be obtained by writing to the ME office. I have a copy. After reading it, it is absolutely mind boggling that LE closed this case saying it was a suicide. Extremely important information that was not made public nor mentioned at the briefing. If I knew how to post it here, I would.

There is a way to do it...you scan and post it somewhere else and post the link here, like we did with KC's stuff. If no one pm's or posts you details on a how-to...pm me and I'll help be happy you help you through it...thing is, I'm hit and miss for a couple days...I ask for patience, if it's me. ;) Adnoid is a good one to contact for advice, imo. Or a mod...

An autopsy report to websleuthers? Well, that's like gold...we'll find a way. IMO.

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 09:41 PM
So Rebecca's sister is saying on HLN that the message was 'She saved him - Can he saved her'

She didn't let Max die at the scene. If she knew based on the last VM that Max was dead/dying and she believed that taking her own life would send her to hell - wouldn't she want her soul saved?

I really don't have the ability to get into someone's mind that contemplates suicide. Imo, they are irrational at the time with irrational thoughts.

Since religious people do commit suicide I don't know the answer in Rebecca's case. Maybe she felt God understood she could not endure the pain she felt and would forgive her.

IMO

jjenny
09-06-2011, 09:41 PM
It's not that cold to need gloves to walk the beach in San Diego. We sleep all night with our windows open. Hopefully he didn't run in to find gloves before he cut her down. But good thought.

You can only save someone from hanging in less than 10 minutes. She was dead for hours by the time he said he found her. Frankly if he would run around looking for gloves because was afraid to disturb the potential crime scene it'd be much better to leave her hanging in order to not disturb the scene.

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 09:42 PM
Ok, so now, Rebecca was going to stay in the guest house. She gets a phone call. She leaves the guest house. She gathers her supplies. She enters the big house. She turns on music loud enough to wake up and bother neighbors, but AS sleeps through it (?), the other people staying there, (hired help?), doesn't hear it or check anything out, or talk to media or LE? Music goes off. Rebecca found 5 hours later (approx)?

Alrighty then. I know what I believe.

time
09-06-2011, 09:43 PM
?? Max not be left alone with Max or Rebecca?
Rebecca, sorry for the mistake

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 09:45 PM
Very good analogy except you forgot the part where she also wrapped the tshirt around her neck, stuffed an end into her throat, then hit herself on the top of the head (blunt force) FOUR TIMES before throwing herself off the balcony! :banghead:

This is SO not funny, but it did make me laugh!! Thank you as I was getting very upset.

gemvt
09-06-2011, 09:46 PM
Very good analogy except you forgot the part where she also wrapped the tshirt around her neck, stuffed an end into her throat, then hit herself on the top of the head (blunt force) FOUR TIMES before throwing herself off the balcony! :banghead:

Sorry, but where did you get that the t-shirt was down her throat and that the head injuries were blunt force?

elementry
09-06-2011, 09:47 PM
Yes AS was staying in the guest house and he said he last saw RN at 8 pm.

It's all so friggin hinky; it's almost as if LE put so many impediments into the facts of their story, that are then so refutable or at least so strewn with holes by the documents which have been released......that it's so badly effected it ironically couldn't be a conspiracy to cover-up - it's too sloppy! As if they wanted an incompetence defense to a cover-up lol.

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 09:47 PM
No disrespect intended, but this all sounds m ore like something in a Vampire movie than I can buy as a suicide theory.

Besides, per LE timeline it doesn't seem like t here would have been much time for her to be saved by Jonah, he had no intention of coming home and if she felt this way it appears to me she would call out to him first - LE says she never called him back and didn't even answer the phone since he left a voicemail.

I'm not a huge van of vampire movies. =) My basic theory is that she tied herself up the way she did because Jonah would have recognized her this way. He would have known that this was part of their intimacy. I don't think she was trying to make it look like murder. I don't think she had time to learn how to self-bind herself that way. If Jonah had told her they were finished, that Dina was going to pursue legal action against her, and she had to spend the night in the guest room - the only thing she could do was say 'this is how I loved you - with complete submission'. She wasn't about to call him back - she wanted him to come to her. We also don't know the sequence of calls - the 12:50 call may have been the last in a series. She may have hung up on him right before that call - he called back and left the final message. She listened to it or not and deleted it. She was still hoping that Jonah would come home. She wanted to be part of his life - did she not call Max her son? If the party they were planning had anything to do with an engagement this all would have seemed so surreal.

curiousjo
09-06-2011, 09:48 PM
Agreed, in less they had a play area that Max enjoyed playing in. I used to take my daughter, even when her Dad was home as she enjoyed it so much.

I really don't think there were nannies. I think there was household help, at least a cleaning woman once or twice a week, a garden service. I still can not help but think that the people leaving the day Rebecca was found, were employees. No one is saying, that's for sure. But if they were not in the guest house, with AS, wouldn't they have been in the caretakers home?

Also, if they were there that night, did they hear the music, didn't they check to see if everything was ok? This is certainly strange in a lot of ways.


-------------------------------
I remember reading somewhere that the apartment over the garage was rented out to an older couple. This must be the caretakers home? They must not have been on the property that night, as LE states only RN and AS home. The loud music is curious. If true, then I would have to guess AS involved.....I doubt he slept very good that night- his nephew was in Neuro/trauma ICU, and he was sleeping in a strange bed. If you heard loud music at approx 1-2 am, wouldn't you check it out or call your brother?

katydid23
09-06-2011, 09:48 PM
Gloves on? Really? Where would he get those gloves? Why would he need gloves to walk on the beach? If he realized this was a potential crime scene, why would he cut her down to begin with?

If you noticed, gloves were only a small portion of my possible explanation. An afterthought really. But it is highly possible and innocent that there was no DNA on the rope.

What is it that people are concluding by the lack of his DNA? That he did NOT cut her down? Because obviously someone did. So where is their DNA? Did he cut her down and then remove his DNA, without removing hers?

I just think that sometimes the people who are screaming bloody murder about this possible suicide are making every single thing look like it is a conspiracy.
Suicides are sloppy weird things sometimes. And maybe it is a homicide, but if it is, it is a weird one that has aspects that make it look like a suicide.

IMO, if the cops had arrested DS and said she had RN murdered, then we would be on here looking at the evidence and finding similarities with suicide and speculating that RN set her up by killing herself.

elementry
09-06-2011, 09:50 PM
Rebecca, sorry for the mistake

Actually, Dina insisting on not leaving Max with Max, i.e. not leaving him alone without supervision, made some sense too; if one thinks he might have been an unruly or wild kid for whatever reasons.

Invisible
09-06-2011, 09:50 PM
BBM

But the only released photos show the door sloppily painted over. I'm assuming they aren't going to leave it that way. JMO

Why not replace the door? I would have, but then no telling what would have happened to it.

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 09:55 PM
-------------------------------
I remember reading somewhere that the apartment over the garage was rented out to an older couple. This must be the caretakers home? They must not have been on the property that night, as LE states only RN and AS home. The loud music is curious. If true, then I would have to guess AS involved.....I doubt he slept very good that night- his nephew was in Neuro/trauma ICU, and he was sleeping in a strange bed. If you heard loud music at approx 1-2 am, wouldn't you check it out or call your brother?

Sorry, but after that PC I don't believe much of anything the SDPD/CPD is saying, just because of all the other information they left out and that is now public knowledge.

I don't believe that this couple wasn't there that night or that they for sure were renting the caretakers apartment. I hope that Rebecca's family knows who they are and have spoken with them.

This is not directed toward you in any stretch of the imagination, just my frustration with the situation.:seeya:

jjenny
09-06-2011, 09:56 PM
I thought Adam was staying in the guesthouse!

Also, did they test the liquid?

Reading over autopsy report on the first page: AS said he last saw RN at 8 pm and she was in the main house. He retired to the guest house.

katydid23
09-06-2011, 09:56 PM
She was only 5'3", she was only a little over 2' off the ground and he was on the table. I think he was probably able to grip the rope fairly easily.

So if his DNA is not found on the rope, what does that mean? Did he not cut her down? Did he try and clean it off? Maybe he did wear gloves then.

Peaceful
09-06-2011, 09:56 PM
This is what I would like to know...

In the first minutes after LE arrived, HAD they found a nude woman, minus ropes, noose, gag, lying dead in grass under a balcony, I can imagine they would immediately ponder PUSHED...or JUMPED?? Murder or Suicide?

But that was NOT the case! What they discovered was a nude woman who was bound at the ankles and feet, noose around her neck, gag around her throat and stuffed in her mouth...

I wanna know WHO exactly FIRST stated, "You know, Bob, looks like it could be a suicide to me..."..

Because I was watching CNN when this story initially broke and the media was IMMEDIATELY reporting it was a possible suicide...

WHO first suggested that theory....cause that certainly wouldn't have been my immediate possibe theory prior to extensive crime scene examination and interviews!!!

Billionaire's Girlfriend's Last Note Inconsistent with Suicide

http://www.forbes.com/sites/shenegotiates/2011/09/06/billionaires-girlfriends-last-note-inconsistent-with-suicide/

Sorry if this is a repeat, interesting read...

That is a very interesting article! Thank you so much for sharing!

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 09:58 PM
I copied the following from page 2 (of 3) of the Investigative Narrative: Scene Description, written by Dana Gary, Medical Examiner Investigator, on 08/21/2011:

>>>snip

…The main house was a multi room, multi bathroom dwelling which appeared clean and organized. The guest house consisted of two bedrooms. One of the rooms had a suitcase and the other room had an unmade bed, a few pieces of women’s clothing on the floor, make up wipes on the dresser and a glass with a clear liquid on the night stand. We were escorted upstairs and I noted black painted writings on the bedroom door that led into the room with the balcony...

<<<snip

Bold mine.

This sounds like Rebecca intended to spend the night in the guesthouse. She took off her makeup, poured a glass of water, and undressed before going bed…and what? She checked her messages, got one she didn’t like…so she wrapped herself in a towel, stalked off to the garage to find a handy tow rope, then entered the big house by way of the kitchen in order to grab a few butcher knives and a tube of paint (and two paintbrushes) on her way up to that cute little guestroom with the handy balcony just right for throwing oneself over, where she painted a little nonsense for her loved ones to remember her by, dropped the towel, cut three lengths of rope, wrapped these around herself and the foot of the bed, and dove off the balcony?

I don't believe that. I don't know what to think, but I don't think it went like that.

If she had moved to the guest house, she either didn’t want to be alone in that big, sad, house just yet, and so sought Adam’s company, or someone suggested she should do so.

MOO

Rest in peace, Rebecca. I'm sorry you are gone.

Maybe Jonah had already told Rebecca she didn't want her in the house. Adam was flown out to keep a close eye on Rebecca. He couldn't exactly throw her out under the circumstances. I doubt that Rebecca would have shared this info with her family. She probably wanted to protect her image of being with Jonah. If she new she was going to commit suicide and she couldn't do it in the guest house - but she wasn't allowed to be in the main house - what other option would she have but to hang outside?

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 09:58 PM
Sorry, but where did you get that the t-shirt was down her throat and that the head injuries were blunt force?

As reported on HLN this evening......in fact, if I am not mistaken, it was same ME expert (hired by Rebecca family) who was defense witness in Caylee case, who stated four bruises under scalp were a result of blunt forcde trauma

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 09:58 PM
So if his DNA is not found on the rope, what does that mean? Did he not cut her down? Did he try and clean it off? Maybe he did wear gloves then.

It means they sure as he11 didn't test the rope very thoroughly.:banghead:

arielilane
09-06-2011, 09:59 PM
Sister says there was no "you" in the message.

"She Saved Him, Can He Save Her"


From the autopsy report.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 09:59 PM
Maybe Jonah had already told Rebecca she didn't want her in the house. Adam was flown out to keep a close eye on Rebecca. He couldn't exactly throw her out under the circumstances. I doubt that Rebecca would have shared this info with her family. She probably wanted to protect her image of being with Jonah. If she new she was going to commit suicide and she couldn't do it in the guest house - but she wasn't allowed to be in the main house - what other option would she have but to hang outside?

Well that doesn't fit with AS saying he last saw her at 8 pm, she was in the main house, and he retired to the guest house.

katydid23
09-06-2011, 10:00 PM
Let's say that at the last press conference they announced that they had arrested DS for hiring a hitman. And they were looking for the killer but DS was in custody. Would anyone here then be looking at this crime to see if maybe it was really a suicide, that had been staged to look like a murder?

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 10:01 PM
Well that doesn't fit with AS saying he last saw her at 8 pm, she was in the main house, and he retired to the guest house.

Or with the three of them having just gone to dinner together.

katydid23
09-06-2011, 10:02 PM
It means they sure as he11 didn't test the rope very thoroughly.:banghead:

I don't think that means that at all. DNA does not get transferred with success every single time someone touches something. Lots of circumstances come into play first.

He touched that rope one time, quickly in his holding it to cut her down. No surprise that it may not have shown up in the testing.

curiousjo
09-06-2011, 10:02 PM
Copied from pg2/3 of the Investigative Narrative: Scene Description, written by Dana Gary, Medical Examiner Investigator, on 08/21/2011:

>>>snip

…The main house was a multi room, multi bathroom dwelling which appeared clean and organized. The guest house consisted of two bedrooms. One of the rooms had a suitcase and the other room had an unmade bed, a few pieces of women’s clothing on the floor, make up wipes on the dresser and a glass with a clear liquid on the night stand. We were escorted upstairs and I noted black painted writings on the bedroom door that led into the room with the balcony...

<<<snip
----------------------------------------------

Okay. I am confused. I thought RN jumped from back bedroom (guestroom) at mansion -and- AS was in the Guesthouse. Was this a typo and should say guest room, not guest house? Or was RN sleeping in guest house or did AS have visitor? Does suitcase belong to AS, RN or someone else? Did she feel lonely and want to be in same area as AS, but in end never went to bed and went into mansion at 2am and committed suicide? Again what about the music? Could altercation have happened between RN and AS? Why are her clothes on floor? Odd if JS kicked her out of home, but if he thought she sedated and threw his son over balcony, then maybe did not want her alone.

Can someone help me understand this?

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 10:03 PM
Maybe Jonah had already told Rebecca she didn't want her in the house. Adam was flown out to keep a close eye on Rebecca. He couldn't exactly throw her out under the circumstances. I doubt that Rebecca would have shared this info with her family. She probably wanted to protect her image of being with Jonah. If she new she was going to commit suicide and she couldn't do it in the guest house - but she wasn't allowed to be in the main house - what other option would she have but to hang outside?

That's the first I have heard of this.....who stated this? Adam? I guess I assumed Adam flew out because his only nephew was in critical condition with a brain injury, not as a babysitter?

arielilane
09-06-2011, 10:04 PM
From the autopsy report.

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 10:05 PM
I don't think that means that at all. DNA does not get transferred with success every single time someone touches something. Lots of circumstances come into play first.

Cynic posts concerning touch DNA on the JonBenet Ramsey section regularly. You may want to read about the number of skin cells we leave behind when we touch something or someone. Very interesting information.

I would say that they most likely did not test that area.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 10:05 PM
Copied from pg2/3 of the Investigative Narrative: Scene Description, written by Dana Gary, Medical Examiner Investigator, on 08/21/2011:

>>>snip

…The main house was a multi room, multi bathroom dwelling which appeared clean and organized. The guest house consisted of two bedrooms. One of the rooms had a suitcase and the other room had an unmade bed, a few pieces of women’s clothing on the floor, make up wipes on the dresser and a glass with a clear liquid on the night stand. We were escorted upstairs and I noted black painted writings on the bedroom door that led into the room with the balcony...

<<<snip
----------------------------------------------

Okay. I am confused. I thought RN jumped from back bedroom (guestroom) at mansion -and- AS was in the Guesthouse. Was this a typo and should say guest room, not guest house? Or was RN sleeping in guest house or did AS have visitor? Does suitcase belong to AS, RN or someone else? Can someone help me understand this?

AS was sleeping at the guest house. He said he last saw RN at 8 pm and she was at the main house. He retired to the guest house.

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 10:06 PM
Well that doesn't fit with AS saying he last saw her at 8 pm, she was in the main house, and he retired to the guest house.

They never said the clothes belonged to Rebecca though.

IMO

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 10:06 PM
That's the first I have heard of this.....who stated this? Adam? I guess I assumed Adam flew out because his only nephew was in critical condition with a brain injury, not as a babysitter?

I am just guessing this. If he were there only for his nephew wouldn't he be at the hospital? It could be he was there for both reasons.

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 10:06 PM
Copied from pg2/3 of the Investigative Narrative: Scene Description, written by Dana Gary, Medical Examiner Investigator, on 08/21/2011:

>>>snip

…The main house was a multi room, multi bathroom dwelling which appeared clean and organized. The guest house consisted of two bedrooms. One of the rooms had a suitcase and the other room had an unmade bed, a few pieces of women’s clothing on the floor, make up wipes on the dresser and a glass with a clear liquid on the night stand. We were escorted upstairs and I noted black painted writings on the bedroom door that led into the room with the balcony...

<<<snip
----------------------------------------------

Okay. I am confused. I thought RN jumped from back bedroom (guestroom) at mansion -and- AS was in the Guesthouse. Was this a typo and should say guest room, not guest house? Or was RN sleeping in guest house or did AS have visitor? Does suitcase belong to AS, RN or someone else? Can someone help me understand this?

Is it possible that the main house/portion of (or at least staircase, which is access to bedrooms) was still sealed off by LE during continuing investigation of son's accident, so she opted to move into one of the guest rooms?

elementry
09-06-2011, 10:07 PM
Sorry, but after that PC I don't believe much of anything the SDPD/CPD is saying, just because of all the other information they left out and that is now public knowledge.

I don't believe that this couple wasn't there that night or that they for sure were renting the caretakers apartment. I hope that Rebecca's family knows who they are and have spoken with them.

This is not directed toward you in any stretch of the imagination, just my frustration with the situation.:seeya:

These house helpers were obviously an illegal alien oriental couple serving as cook, gardener, housecleaner, tantric bondage teachers and - why not - occasional hit-persons and assassins, who are now on the Medicis corporate yacht to Timbuktu along with AS......

/sarcasm off

Just a little jesting amid the misery of this all......

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 10:07 PM
They never said the clothes belonged to Rebecca though.

IMO

Yes they didn't. Who's clothing is it then? Did Adam have a woman over in the guest house? Did she leave with out her clothing?

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 10:07 PM
Cynic posts concerning touch DNA on the JonBenet Ramsey section regularly. You may want to read about the number of skin cells we leave behind when we touch something or someone. Very interesting information.

I would say that they most likely did not test that area.

Wouldnt they have to test the entire area of the ropes to find Rebecca's dna only.

IMO

jjenny
09-06-2011, 10:08 PM
Is it possible that the main house/portion of (or at least staircase, which is access to bedrooms) was still sealed off by LE during continuing investigation of son's accident, so she opted to move into one of the guest rooms?

No it's not possible because it doesn't fit with what AS said happened. It's on the first page of the autopsy report. He said he last saw her at 8 pm, she was at the main house. He retired to the guest house.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 10:09 PM
They never said the clothes belonged to Rebecca though.

IMO

No they didn't. Did they ever ask?

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 10:09 PM
Yes they didn't. Who's clothing is it then? Did Adam have a woman over in the guest house? Did she leave with out her clothing?

I dont know. Maybe clothes were left behind by someone else that had stayed in the room in the past.

Just one glass was found with liquid in it so it sounds like he was alone.

imo

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 10:10 PM
Let's say that at the last press conference they announced that they had arrested DS for hiring a hitman. And they were looking for the killer but DS was in custody. Would anyone here then be looking at this crime to see if maybe it was really a suicide, that had been staged to look like a murder, to try and free DS from being set up?

? :waitasec:

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 10:10 PM
Well that doesn't fit with AS saying he last saw her at 8 pm, she was in the main house, and he retired to the guest house.

It seems like there are women's clothing in the second bedroom of the guest house. That's what is confusing me at the moment.

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 10:12 PM
I dont know. Maybe clothes were left behind by someone else that had stayed in the room in the past.

Just one glass was found with liquid in it so it sounds like he was alone.

imo

There was also the mention of make-up remover. Seems odd.

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 10:12 PM
No they didn't. Did they ever ask?

I would think they ask Adam but honestly that part of the AR is confusing to me. They are talking about the guest house and then go right on to the balcony bedroom.

I wonder if they got it messed up and were describing what was found in the guest ROOM not the guest house.

IMO

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 10:12 PM
These house helpers were obviously an illegal alien oriental couple serving as cook, gardener, housecleaner, tantric bondage teachers and - why not - occasional hit-persons and assassins, who are now on the Medicis corporate yacht to Timbuktu along with AS......

/sarcasm off

Just a little jesting amid the misery of this all......

:floorlaugh: Thanks for the laugh, but I do seriously wonder who they were. I know they ate pictured in early video.

Wouldnt they have to test the entire area of the ropes to find Rebecca's dna only.

IMO

Very doubtful that they checked the entire rope. I have learned a lot about how/what is tested in the JonBenet forum. Most likely they tested near the rope that was next to Rebecca, where she should/would have touched it. This of course means very little.

Quester
09-06-2011, 10:13 PM
Re: no AS DNA on the noose rope

I don't think AS would have touched the noose rope while cutting her down, thus no DNA on noose rope.

If AS jumped up on the table with kitchen knife in right hand [I'm assuming AS is right handed] and wrapped his left arm around and across RZ's trunk, then cut the noose rope with the knife, he could have never touched the rope.

If this scenario is correct, I would expect, of any place, AS' DNA could be found on her body.

katydid23
09-06-2011, 10:13 PM
Cynic posts concerning touch DNA on the JonBenet Ramsey section regularly. You may want to read about the number of skin cells we leave behind when we touch something or someone. Very interesting information.

I would say that they most likely did not test that area.

Ok, so let's just all jump on the forensics team and say they were incompetent. Or that the detectives were on the take. And that the sheriff was corrupt. Not finding the DNA that was left from ONE touch of the rope must mean all of that. <modsnip> And it makes me sad. They are people doing their jobs and we are second guessing everything and jumping to the worst conclusions about them.

I guess I need a break.

curiousjo
09-06-2011, 10:13 PM
AS was sleeping at the guest house. He said he last saw RN at 8 pm and she was at the main house. He retired to the guest house.

Why were woman clothing in the guesthouse if AS staying there?

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 10:13 PM
There was also the mention of make-up remover. Seems odd.

I have to go back and read that part more closely. It seemed a little confusing to me.

IMO

jjenny
09-06-2011, 10:14 PM
Why were woman clothing in the guesthouse if AS staying there?

I would certainly like to know that.

katydid23
09-06-2011, 10:15 PM
? :waitasec:

Just sayin...there are two ways to look at this.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 10:16 PM
I would think they ask Adam but honestly that part of the AR is confusing to me. They are talking about the guest house and then go right on to the balcony bedroom.

I wonder if they got it messed up and were describing what was found in the guest ROOM not the guest house.

IMO

The way I read it what was in two bedrooms of the guest house is described, then they were invited upstairs of the main house.

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 10:16 PM
Ok, so let's just all jump on the forensics team and say they were incompetent. Or that the detectives were on the take. And that the sheriff was corrupt. Not finding the DNA that was left from ONE touch of the rope must mean all of that. I feel like some are carrying pitchforks here for the San Diego LE. And it makes me sad. They are people doing their jobs and we are second guessing everything and jumping to the worst conclusions about them.

I guess I need a break.

I dont believe that happened for one second, katy.

7 weeks IS a long investigation. I think they did a thorough job and I didnt expect them to tell us every tiny detail in the PC either.

I just think some people are convinced that it was murder and no matter what... they are going to believe that.

IMO

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 10:17 PM
Ok, so let's just all jump on the forensics team and say they were incompetent. Or that the detectives were on the take. And that the sheriff was corrupt. Not finding the DNA that was left from ONE touch of the rope must mean all of that. I feel like some are carrying pitchforks here for the San Diego LE. And it makes me sad. They are people doing their jobs and we are second guessing everything and jumping to the worst conclusions about them.

I guess I need a break.

If I implied that to you, I am sorry. I just implied that LE in general does not test all areas. They test where there is most likely to be a 'hit'.

stobin
09-06-2011, 10:18 PM
As reported on HLN this evening......in fact, if I am not mistaken, it was same ME expert (hired by Rebecca family) who was defense witness in Caylee case, who stated four bruises under scalp were a result of blunt forcde trauma

Cyril Wecht. He's found another case to attach himself to.

Winnts
09-06-2011, 10:20 PM
If (and that's a big IF) this case is reopened, how much you want to bet evidence goes missing or was destroyed. They've already rushed and painted over the door.

sorrell skye
09-06-2011, 10:20 PM
Rebecca's sister has stated that Rebecca believed that suicide would condemn her to Hell.

I wonder how her sister knows Rebecca believed this? I wonder if the topic of suicide had come up @ some point in the past (and if so, in what context - was it a discussion about the topic in general, or was it perhaps a more personal discussion)?

I'm still very skeptical Rebecca's death was suicide - mainly because of the four injuries to her head (but also because of several other factors).

Nevertheless, I'm curious as to why Rebecca's sister would have knowledge of Rebecca's beliefs regarding suicide. I don't think suicide is necessarily an everyday topic of conversation for most people, regardless of one's spiritual beliefs. Her sister seems pretty firm in her statements regarding Rebecca's beliefs on the matter. How did her sister arrive at this conclusion?

As I've said, I'm not convinced of the official ruling on Rebecca's death, but I believe that it's important to pay attention to each and every detail if we are to arrive at the truth.

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 10:21 PM
It seems like there are women's clothing in the second bedroom of the guest house. That's what is confusing me at the moment.

So was Adam in the first bedroom of the guest house?

The one where they saw the suitcase?

imo

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 10:21 PM
I have to go back and read that part more closely. It seemed a little confusing to me.

IMO


From the autopsy report: The guest house consisted of two bedrooms. One of the rooms had a suitcase and the other had an unmade bed, a few pieces of women's clothing on the floor, make up wipes on the dresser and a glass with clear liquid on the night stand.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 10:21 PM
Rebecca's sister has stated that Rebecca believed that suicide would condemn her to Hell.

I wonder how her sister knows Rebecca believed this? I wonder if the topic of suicide had come up @ some point in the past (and if so, in what context - was it a discussion about the topic in general, or was it perhaps a more personal discussion)?

I'm still very skeptical Rebecca's death was suicide - mainly because of the four injuries to her head (but also because of several other factors).

Nevertheless, I'm curious as to why Rebecca's sister would have knowledge of Rebecca's beliefs regarding suicide. I don't think suicide is necessarily an everyday topic of conversation for most people, regardless of one's spiritual beliefs. Her sister seems pretty firm in her statements regarding Rebecca's beliefs on the matter. How did her sister arrive at this conclusion?

As I've said, I'm not convinced of the official ruling on Rebecca's death, but I believe that it's important to pay attention to each and every detail if we are to arrive at the truth.

The sister clearly explained that they were raised Christians and that is their religious belief.

Peaceful
09-06-2011, 10:22 PM
I can understand your point but at the same time it seems that Rebecca was banished. This was a time of tragedy for everyone involved - and it could have been an opportunity to come together - to support each other. Don't you think Rebecca may have felt compassion towards Dina? The point I was trying to make was that it seems like Rebecca was being isolated by Dina as well as Jonah. Why board the dog? Did Jonah request this? Why have Adam stay in the guest house? Shouldn't he have been in the guest room? Shouldn't Adam and Rebecca have been up all night in the kitchen - waiting for news? Was he there to watch over Rebecca and look over the house? It's as if they were punishing her - and despite this she was doing everything that was asked of her. Driving people to and from the airport, bringing Jonah clothes, cleaning up the broken glass - etc...

What I find most interesting is that according to RN's sister, JS was saying this was a suicide right from the start. Her sister doesn't believe it's a suicide. Her ex-husband doesn't appear to believe it's a suicide (and they were married for years). But JS apparently just believed it was suicide even before the investigation.

That is strange. Although he was likely getting the majority of information from his brother so perhaps he really didn't have an alternate opinion early on. However, I am certainly suprised to hear how easily he accepted the "suicide" ruling that doesn't make the least bit of sense. He has been distant and strange with regards to her death all along, IMO. He never came to her defense or even really said anything about her, only speaking wonderfully of his son and saying basically, yeah, she was great too. The only thing he took the time out to defend in this situation was himself. It is all just too wierd. I don't think he had the reasoning to do this crime, but i do believe he is the only one capable of prompting this cover up. IMO

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 10:23 PM
The way I read it what was in two bedrooms of the guest house is described, then they were invited upstairs of the main house.

That's how I read it as well.

Bedroom # 1 contained a suitcase (possibly Adam's since he was visiting?)

Bedroom #2 contained woman clothing on floor, makeup remover towelettes (woman possibly staying in room....undressed for bed...removed makeup..)

Plumeria5
09-06-2011, 10:23 PM
No Ocean, I do not think Jonah did it. I have my own idea who did it...if... it was murder but I'm keeping that to myself for now.

I do think JS is worried about his company and what upsets me is it's like Rebecca was just a blip on the screen.

He could have expressed his remorse about her death in a more personal way rather than a PR statement including he and Dina. This was the woman he has been in a relationship with for the last 2 years! I understand the loss of his child was devastating but to lose her too!!

I seriously think that JS and his PR firm think if they keep quoting the LE's information it will go away.

Dr. Drew is covering it right now.

Another thing is that LE seems (to me) to have repeated what AS told them what happened. So that says to me the original scene was tampered with.

Wow a suicide expert on Dr Drew just said that now they have more questions than ever.

Dr. Drew has some good info and good questions.

For example if Adam cut her down how is that his DNA is not on the rope too???

It is just a matter of time before JS's PR representative is on here if not already disguised as a member.


BBM Forgot to take his gloves off???

curiousjo
09-06-2011, 10:24 PM
The way I read it what was in two bedrooms of the guest house is described, then they were invited upstairs of the main house.

The Guest house and mansion and caretakers place are 3 seperate buildings. Either typo or there was woman clothing in guest house where AS staying. Did they belong to RN, GS, RN neice, or female visitor? I presume suitcase belonged to AS, but maybe RN if JS didn't trust her alone in mansion and kicked her out to guest house with AS or RN wanted company.

Did RN stay there, got dressed for bed (blue Tshirt), cleaned off makeup, drank water....but never went to bed.

This is an official report- shouldn't it make sense?

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 10:25 PM
If (and that's a big IF) this case is reopened, how much you want to bet evidence goes missing or was destroyed. They've already rushed and painted over the door.

I don't think they rushed to paint over the door. It has been over 7 weeks now and the message was photographed and videoed in its original form imo and included with the LE reports we have not seen.

I don't think they will destroy anything.

IMO

jjenny
09-06-2011, 10:25 PM
The Guest house and mansion and caretakers place are 3 seperate buildings. Either typo or there was woman clothing in guest house where AS staying. Did they belong to RN, GS, RN neice, or female visitor? I presume suitcase belonged to AS, but maybe RN if JS didn't trust her alone in mansion and kicked her out to guest house with AS.... This is an official report- shouldn't it make sense?

Again, the idea that JS kicked RN out of the main house doesn't fit with what AS said: He last saw RN at 8 pm. She was in the main house. He retired to the guest house.

deanna82437
09-06-2011, 10:28 PM
It means they sure as he11 didn't test the rope very thoroughly.:banghead:

Nor the liquid in the glass .. :sick:

Quester
09-06-2011, 10:29 PM
Why were woman clothing in the guesthouse if AS staying there?

I believe we read early on that the guesthouse consisted of two master suites.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 10:30 PM
I believe we read early on that the guesthouse consisted of two master suites.

The report says guest house consisted of two bedrooms.

tvscum
09-06-2011, 10:31 PM
Medical Examiner response -- or lack thereof -- to the autopsy issues. This was released through the sheriff's dept here:

http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/0906.pdf

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 10:32 PM
So in piecing this together in logical sense with what we know...

Adam last sees Rebecca at 8 pm in main house.

At some point, assuming the woman's clothing was hers (since she was found naked), she retreated to second bedroom and prepared for bed, removing her clothing.

She then enters the bathroom where she uses makeup remover towelettes to remove makeup (photos I have seen of her show her wearing semi-heavy makeup...blue eyeshadow)...

She then climbs into a bed which was later found unmade.

Sometime just prior to 3 am, she awakens and finds (or learned before bedtime) that the son's passing is imminent, so she makes the decision to take her life...and retreats to secure the rope, paint, etc.....

At 7 am, Adam finds her body.

Is this one of the theories being alluded to? I would assume there wasn't a lot of forethought in her suicide plan...don't think I have ever heard of a woman taking the time to remove all her makeup before taking her own life?

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 10:33 PM
So was Adam in the first bedroom of the guest house?

The one where they saw the suitcase?

imo

That's what it sounds like - and that he made his bed too. We've all been wondering where Rebecca's clothes were. This is the first time we hear of women's clothing. If it was her clothing did she deliberately leave it on the floor there? We've also heard that she slept naked. Was she sleeping in the blue shirt that was tied to her neck? Maybe this explains why she didn't hear the call - if she was in the guest house she may have had her phone on vibrate so as not to wake Adam. After the final VM, did she get out of bed and not bother putting her clothes back on as she went into the main house?

jjenny
09-06-2011, 10:35 PM
So in piecing this together in logical sense with what we know...

Adam last sees Rebecca at 8 pm in main house.

At some point, assuming the woman's clothing was hers (since she was found naked), she retreated to second bedroom and prepared for bed, removing her clothing.

She then enters the bathroom where she uses makeup remover towelettes to remove makeup (photos I have seen of her show her wearing semi-heavy makeup...blue eyeshadow)...

She then climbs into a bed which was later found unmade.

Sometime just prior to 3 am, she awakens and finds (or learned before bedtime) that the son's passing is imminent, so she makes the decision to take her life...and retreats to secure the rope, paint, etc.....

At 7 am, Adam finds her body.

Is this one of the theories being alluded to? I would assume there wasn't a lot of forethought in her suicide plan...don't think I have ever heard of a woman taking the time to remove all her makeup before taking her own life?

The main house and guest house are two separate houses. The guest house has two bedrooms. AS says RN was in the main house and he retired to the guest house.

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 10:36 PM
So in piecing this together in logical sense with what we know...

Adam last sees Rebecca at 8 pm in main house.

At some point, assuming the woman's clothing was hers (since she was found naked), she retreated to second bedroom and prepared for bed, removing her clothing.

She then enters the bathroom where she uses makeup remover towelettes to remove makeup (photos I have seen of her show her wearing semi-heavy makeup...blue eyeshadow)...

She then climbs into a bed which was later found unmade.

Sometime just prior to 3 am, she awakens and finds (or learned before bedtime) that the son's passing is imminent, so she makes the decision to take her life...and retreats to secure the rope, paint, etc.....

At 7 am, Adam finds her body.

Is this one of the theories being alluded to? I would assume there wasn't a lot of forethought in her suicide plan...don't think I have ever heard of a woman taking the time to remove all her makeup before taking her own life?

Yes. If she was in the guest house was it because she didn't want to be alone in the main house? She could have asked Adam to stay in the guest room I suppose. Or was she not allowed to be in the ICU, and not allowed to be in the main house, but was expected to bring clothes to Jonah the next morning?

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 10:37 PM
The Guest house and mansion and caretakers place are 3 seperate buildings. Either typo or there was woman clothing in guest house where AS staying. Did they belong to RN, GS, RN neice, or female visitor? I presume suitcase belonged to AS, but maybe RN if JS didn't trust her alone in mansion and kicked her out to guest house with AS or RN wanted company.

Did RN stay there, got dressed for bed (blue Tshirt), cleaned off makeup, drank water....but never went to bed.

This is an official report- shouldn't it make sense?

Actually, report states that bed in room with woman's clothing contained an "unmade bed".....so someone climbed under the covers...

But now that I think about it.....odd that report did NOT state that room with suitcase (presumed to be AS) also had "unmade bed".....so where did HE sleep that night????

jjenny
09-06-2011, 10:37 PM
That's what it sounds like - and that he made his bed too. We've all been wondering where Rebecca's clothes were. This is the first time we hear of women's clothing. If it was her clothing did she deliberately leave it on the floor there? We've also heard that she slept naked. Was she sleeping in the blue shirt that was tied to her neck? Maybe this explains why she didn't hear the call - if she was in the guest house she may have had her phone on vibrate so as not to wake Adam. After the final VM, did she get out of bed and not bother putting her clothes back on as she went into the main house?

Only she was not in the guest house, since AS's story was he last saw her at 8 pm in the main house and he retired to the guest house.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 10:38 PM
Yes. If she was in the guest house was it because she didn't want to be alone in the main house? She could have asked Adam to stay in the guest room I suppose. Or was she not allowed to be in the ICU, and not allowed to be in the main house, but was expected to bring clothes to Jonah the next morning?

That would directly contradict the story in the autopsy report as told by AS.
She was not in the guest house. She was in the main house. AS retired to the guest house at 8 pm.

elementry
09-06-2011, 10:39 PM
From the autopsy report: The guest house consisted of two bedrooms. One of the rooms had a suitcase and the other had an unmade bed, a few pieces of women's clothing on the floor, make up wipes on the dresser and a glass with clear liquid on the night stand.

RN's photos do show she wore lots of make-up.

Perhaps as was said, JS told her to be out of the main house. He may have directed her to go to the guest house, where AS was also. That would get her into easy availability for AS. Maybe it was odd that she would be nude in the main house walking around getting her supplies for the suicide, with AS on the same premises; it's even odder if they were in the 2 bedrooms of the guest house and she's voluntarily taking her clothes off there. If she were ordered to disrobe at the guest house........

Also the servant quarter occupants, if such existed, should have been mentioned or vetted by LE. Definitely hoped they investigated that aspect.

If .....someone.... was calling the shots, AS might have been instructed to prepare RN, then hand her off to someone else who was waiting in the main house, with all the necessary equipment at the ready. AS might not even have known exactly what was to come.

If an actual murder case ever comes to pass, it would be fascinating to see how AS, JS, and DS hold up against and with one another. Btw, I am not sold on all these conspiracy theories re the S's and LE; just playing w scenarios.

Seeing how insular the SD LE and political culture are, it would be very odd for the DA, who backed Gore, take up a case like this.

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 10:41 PM
That would directly contradict the story in the autopsy report as told by AS.
She was not in the guest house. She was in the main house. AS retired to the guest house at 8 pm.

Yes, but we only know she was in the main house until 8 pm...we don't know where she went after AS retired....except for assumption based on the woman's clothing on the floor of second bedroom in guest house, and the fact that she was found nude....

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 10:42 PM
you do realize that her attorney was simply answering a question during a televised interview, with all the time constraints, distractions etc that are present during such a situation.

what is the hangup with the word "guilt?" if you believe max died as a result of an accident, she actually SHOULDN'T feel any guilt. regret? sure. grief? sure. sadness? of course.

it's disturbing how quickly this thread has begun leaning towards attacking RN and family for doing what they have every right and responsibility to do......seek the truth and get justice.

and as for the secrets surrounding the other kids......two people are dead. having to tell the truth as to whether they were present or not and when etc....is hardly the worst thing that's going to happen to them whether they're covering something up or not.

Consider this... If Dina and or Dina and Jonah were suspicious of Rebecca regarding Max's death - Do you think she would convey this to her family right away? If she didn't convey it - the family might innocently ask is she felt any guilt. What would you say? I would say no - even if I did. I wouldn't want to open up the door to the fact that there is suspicion towards me or feelings of guilt. I would want to maintain that everything was more or less fine given the tragic circumstances.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 10:42 PM
AS says he last saw her at 8 pm when he retired to the guest house. She was in the main house. It's on the front page of the whole autopsy report which is linked here.

sdcali
09-06-2011, 10:42 PM
Aren't you making an assumption that AS did not receive a call at the same time? Conversations between JS and AS wouldn't be publicly released because it really has no relevance to the investigation.

I'm kinda surprised that some are questioning the time of the call. A turn for the worse can happen at any time. Hearts do stop beating and need restarting but that doesn't mean they continue to beat normally. Was RN so callous toward Max that she wouldn't want to even be told of his condition? I doubt it.

JMO

I'm questioning why AS, if he received such a call, did not then go to the hospital to be by his nephew's side in his final hours. My post has nothing to do with RZ's being callous. Quite the opposite. IMO, she cared very deeply for him, but was not allowed to visit him at the hospital.

elementry
09-06-2011, 10:44 PM
I don't think they rushed to paint over the door. It has been over 7 weeks now and the message was photographed and videoed in its original form imo and included with the LE reports we have not seen.

I don't think they will destroy anything.

IMO

Why on earth paint it over for any reason, pray tell.......

Another investigative team would ever be able to get a look at it in its original crime scene condition. Perhaps a more involved look could have gleaned something. Nobody will ever know, if in fact they painted it over.

Quester
09-06-2011, 10:44 PM
The report says guest house consisted of two bedrooms.

Could be just semantics but from the link below:

A guest house, completed in 1928, contains two master bedroom suites, each decorated by an 18-inch fresco running around the perimeter of the room on the upper portion of the walls.

http://www.coronadobeachhouse.com/howmuch1043.html

jjenny
09-06-2011, 10:46 PM
From the link below:

A guest house, completed in 1928, contains two master bedroom suites, each decorated by an 18-inch fresco running around the perimeter of the room on the upper portion of the walls.

http://www.coronadobeachhouse.com/howmuch1043.html

O'key there are two master bedrooms and policeman in his report just called them bedrooms.

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 10:47 PM
That would directly contradict the story in the autopsy report as told by AS.
She was not in the guest house. She was in the main house. AS retired to the guest house at 8 pm.

Either she was in the main house, as AS stated, or she was in the guest house. Who would have a reason to lie about that? And why? When they dropped JS at the hospital everything was ok.

One thing that struck me in the autopsy report is that Rebecca had permanent makeup. Wonder what color makeup was on the make up removal pad.

ehough22
09-06-2011, 10:47 PM
The autopsy report also states that Rebecca had her eye makeup tattooed on; not that she couldn't use the makeup remover for other makeup that she was wearing, but I found that interesting, especially now that we have makeup remover in the guest house.

Regarding the lack of AS's DNA on the rope- do we know for sure that he simply reached up quickly and cut her down? I don't know that we do. I'm envisioning him finding the body, running to her, possibly touching her and/or the rope in an attempt to get her down, running in for a knife, and then...what? He stands on the table- does he let her drop to the ground? Does he prop her up on himself? I can definitely see a scenario where there could be DNA and fingerprints all over her and the rope. Of course, that in and of itself wouldn't be suspicious- he cut her down. The lack thereof does give me pause.

Regarding the message, the placement of it is kind of strange to me. Disclaimer: I know we can't apply logic to suicidal people, but I am not sure how else we'd examine such a case. Presumably she knew JS wasn't coming home- she had the voicemail and was also going to bring him clothes. That leaves AS. I am unclear on the layout of the grounds but wouldn't she realize AS would find her outside? That no one would first find the door message/be able to "save her", if that were ever her intention? Who did she think would first find a message on that door who wasn't first going to find her outside? This is, of course, assuming she wrote it, which I don't believe she did. But it's almost as if it were intended for someone who would be looking for her via the main house, which wouldn't be AS given what we're told, and wouldn't be JS, at least not for quite some time. Things that make you go hmmm.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 10:49 PM
In the photos she appears to wear eye shadow to match her clothes, so it wouldn't be a permanent tattoo because she had to change it to match her clothes. I think she might have some tattooed on, doesn't mean she didn't wear additional make up.

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 10:49 PM
That would directly contradict the story in the autopsy report as told by AS.
She was not in the guest house. She was in the main house. AS retired to the guest house at 8 pm.

If Adam retired to the guest house at 8PM and saw Rebecca in the main house at that time - it doesn't mean she didn't also retire to the guest house later. Maybe she had to get some personal items like make-up wipes. I doubt that if Jonah had asked Rebeccca not to be in the main house - and had asked Adam to watch over her - that he would have actually performed that duty like a hawk.

curiousjo
09-06-2011, 10:49 PM
So in piecing this together in logical sense with what we know...

Adam last sees Rebecca at 8 pm in main house.

At some point, assuming the woman's clothing was hers (since she was found naked), she retreated to second bedroom and prepared for bed, removing her clothing.

She then enters the bathroom where she uses makeup remover towelettes to remove makeup (photos I have seen of her show her wearing semi-heavy makeup...blue eyeshadow)...

She then climbs into a bed which was later found unmade.

Sometime just prior to 3 am, she awakens and finds (or learned before bedtime) that the son's passing is imminent, so she makes the decision to take her life...and retreats to secure the rope, paint, etc.....

At 7 am, Adam finds her body.

Is this one of the theories being alluded to? I would assume there wasn't a lot of forethought in her suicide plan...don't think I have ever heard of a woman taking the time to remove all her makeup before taking her own life?
-------------------------------------------------------------
Don't forget......
-Red bath towel found in mansion hallway, so some where in the timeline she took a shower or bath. Blood also found in hallway, so maybe nicked her legs shaving or waxing or ...?
- AS says he last saw her in the mansion at 8pm- not the guesthouse although a womans clothing was found there......
-RN got call from JS about MS taking turn for worse - didn't that wake AS and he would realize she was not in bed?
-Wouldn't JS have called AS regarding MS if he couldn't reach RN - he is so controlling that I would think he would ask his brother what she was doing or want to talk to someone supportive if he was that sad....

Side note;
-Did I hear a candle was found on ground where she jumped? So, was she bound yet carrying candle, then jumped over railing or was candle to light up courtyard so someone could see or just left there from prior event
-Was RN hair wet or dry after shower - no comment in autopsy
-Was there loud music or not? Was there a party or not? AS surely would check it out if true....
-IF RN retired to guesthouse later, wouldn't she have woken AS and he would have seen her there?
-Did LE check for anesthetic with short acting half life that could have been injected to temp. sedate/paralyze her. Some drugs in and out of system fast. I would hope they checked for obscure drugs.... Could you be injected with Botox or Restalyne in spine and cause paralysis? Just asking....

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 10:51 PM
AS says he last saw her at 8 pm when he retired to the guest house. She was in the main house. It's on the front page of the whole autopsy report which is linked here.

That's what I am trying to establish....we KNOW (based on AS statement) that she was in main house at 8 pm....but we don't know where she was between the hours of 8:05 pm and 3 am (est time of death), right?

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 10:51 PM
Actually, report states that bed in room with woman's clothing contained an "unmade bed".....so someone climbed under the covers...

But now that I think about it.....odd that report did NOT state that room with suitcase (presumed to be AS) also had "unmade bed".....so where did HE sleep that night????

Maybe he made the bed up when he got up.

IMO

deanna82437
09-06-2011, 10:52 PM
1. There were two bedrooms in the guest house. One with a suitcase (assume AS) and one with women's clothes, make-up towelettes and a glass of clear liquid.

2. Perhaps after AS retired to guest house at 8:00 pm, maybe later RZ decided to sleep in the other bedroom so as to not be alone in the big house, say maybe 12:30 am or so.

3. IIRC the autopsy stated RZ had eyebrows tatooed as well as eye makeup (blue eye shadow?)

4. From there on, I have no idea. :waitasec:

jjenny
09-06-2011, 10:52 PM
If Adam retired to the guest house at 8PM and saw Rebecca in the main house at that time - it doesn't mean she didn't also retire to the guest house later. Maybe she had to get some personal items like make-up wipes. I doubt that if Jonah had asked Rebeccca not to be in the main house - and had asked Adam to watch over her - that he would have actually performed that duty like a hawk.

I don't know what to tell you since AS story is that he last saw her at 8 pm. She was in the main house and he retired to the guest house. If he retired to the guest house and she later stopped by then his story presumably wouldn't be he last saw her at 8 pm.

doubt
09-06-2011, 10:52 PM
Consider this... If Dina and or Dina and Jonah were suspicious of Rebecca regarding Max's death - Do you think she would convey this to her family right away? If she didn't convey it - the family might innocently ask is she felt any guilt. What would you say? I would say no - even if I did. I wouldn't want to open up the door to the fact that there is suspicion towards me or feelings of guilt. I would want to maintain that everything was more or less fine given the tragic circumstances.

agreed. i would not divulge this to my family and here's why:

1. i would know i was innocent
2. i would think the unfounded suspicions were a part of the parent's grieving and would pass, eventually.
3. i would not want my family to think less of the man i loved, which i think would be a natural reaction to hearing that there was a tragic accident and instead of standing by my side, he blamed me and lashed out at me and basically, trashed me. i would want to protect him.

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 10:53 PM
-------------------------------------------------------------
Don't forget......
-Red bath towel found in hallway, so some where in the timeline she took a shower or bath in the mansion.
- AS says he last saw her in the mansion at 8pm- not the guesthouse although a womans clothing was found there......
-RN got call from JS about MS taking turn for worse - didn't that wake AS?
-Wouldn't JS have called AS regarding MS if he couldn't reach RN - he is so controlling that I would think he would ask his brother what she was doing or want to talk to someone supportive if he was that sad....

Do we know if they actually spoke/voicemail or if a text was sent? All I have read is she "received a message".....

Or did I read that they have records that she called voicemail and retrieved message? :waitasec:

Peaceful
09-06-2011, 10:54 PM
Ok, so let's just all jump on the forensics team and say they were incompetent. Or that the detectives were on the take. And that the sheriff was corrupt. Not finding the DNA that was left from ONE touch of the rope must mean all of that. I feel like some are carrying pitchforks here for the San Diego LE. And it makes me sad. They are people doing their jobs and we are second guessing everything and jumping to the worst conclusions about them.

I guess I need a break.

Perhaps you are not taking into account that most of us on this forum are regular crime story junkies and we watch these stories from start to finish as hobbies. We become practical experts on the dos and the donts. Familiar with most all aspects of cases. I can only speak for myself when I say a WHOLE lot more than lack of DNA on one piece of the rope certainly did not lead me to the conclusion that this beautiful woman DID NOT commit suicide. If that is all you have gotten from this forum, may I suggest you start back at the beginning of the series of the blogs on this topic. Or, take a look at the autopsy report and then watch the PC and see if they match to you. They didn't to me. Please, feel free to take a break. We will be here to welcome you back, I am sure.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 10:54 PM
1. There were two bedrooms in the guest house. One with a suitcase (assume AS) and one with women's clothes, make-up towelettes and a glass of clear liquid.

2. Perhaps after AS retired to guest house at 8:00 pm, maybe later RZ decided to sleep in the other bedroom so as to not be alone in the big house, say maybe 12:30 am or so.

3. IIRC the autopsy stated RZ had eyebrows tatooed as well as eye makeup (blue eye shadow?)

4. From there on, I have no idea. :waitasec:

Again, that doesn't fit with his statement that he last saw her at 8 pm when he retired to the guest house. She was in the main house. If she decided to sleep in the other bedroom of the guest house his statement should have been completely different, no?

elementry
09-06-2011, 10:54 PM
Either she was in the main house, as AS stated, or she was in the guest house. Who would have a reason to lie about that? And why? When they dropped JS at the hospital everything was ok.

One thing that struck me in the autopsy report is that Rebecca had permanent makeup. Wonder what color makeup was on the make up removal pad.

That heavy blue eyeliner or whatever it's called, that she seemed to favor? I hope that stuff wasn't permanent.

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 10:54 PM
-------------------------------------------------------------
Don't forget......
-Red bath towel found in mansion hallway, so some where in the timeline she took a shower or bath. Blood also found in hallway, so maybe nicked her legs shaving or waxing or ...?
- AS says he last saw her in the mansion at 8pm- not the guesthouse although a womans clothing was found there......
-RN got call from JS about MS taking turn for worse - didn't that wake AS?
-Wouldn't JS have called AS regarding MS if he couldn't reach RN - he is so controlling that I would think he would ask his brother what she was doing or want to talk to someone supportive if he was that sad....

Side note;
-Did I hear a candle was found on ground where she jumped? So, was she bound yet carrying candle, then jumped over railing or was candle to light up courtyard so someone could see or just left there from prior event
-Was RN hair wet or dry after shower - no comment in autopsy
-Was there loud music or not? AS surely would check it out if true....

If he was that controlling and couldn't get her on the phone he would have called Adam to go to the main house and get Rebecca to call him back.

I don't think he tried to control Rebecca. He probably tried to keep her updated on Max and called her around 12:50 am but the call went to voice mail so he just left a message.

IMO

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 10:55 PM
Maybe he made the bed up when he got up.

IMO

Wish I could get him to talk to my DH....:floorlaugh:

ehough22
09-06-2011, 10:56 PM
Also, regarding Rebecca's guilt, or lack thereof- I do agree that pretty much anyone would feel guilty if a child had a fatal accident while in their care. I don't see how you could not. However, I feel like there are two things in play- one would be guilt for his death and one would be guilt for being the person in charge when he died. They are not the same to me. We still don't have a firm grasp on what happened to Max- yes, we have LE's best guess, but we don't know for sure. Perhaps she was in the bathroom and Max chose that time to go barreling towards the stairs; perhaps she was truly not responsible for a split second accident. I think it's entirely possible she could feel guilt that it happened on her watch yet not necessarily feel guilt over his death, knowing there wasn't anything she could have done. And the autopsy report says she didn't feel "excessive guilt" (or something along those lines). It didn't say she felt no guilt whatsoever, regardless of what the attorney is saying 7 weeks after the fact.

doubt
09-06-2011, 10:57 PM
I am not really hung up on the word guilt. I'm just saying that she should have felt some, imo. That little boy was propelled over the top of the second story bannister and broke his neck in the fall. Who wouldn't feel guilty if they were the adult in charge? It surprises me that she didn't.

And talk about attacking. I see this thread as attacking the San Diego LE, calling them liars, the forensics team is incompetent, , the head sheriff corrupt, people alluding to them being paid off,bribed, tampering with evidence and covering up a murder because JS is supposed to be muckedy-muck.

I do not think it is attacking RN to question her supervision of Maxie that day. It obviously fell short. If according to her family's attorney , it was a planking accident, then I hold her responsible, since she was the adult in charge at the time.

Maybe LE has answers to explain the tape residue and the head wounds. And maybe they did not discuss every single aspect of the case publicly. It does not mean they are on the take or they are morons.

personally, i believe LE are small potatoes where this one is concerned. the people calling the shots on this crooked investigation are far more powerful.

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 10:57 PM
That heavy blue eyeliner or whatever it's called, that she seemed to favor? I hope that stuff wasn't permanent.

The ME stated it was permanent tattooing.

IMO

katydid23
09-06-2011, 10:57 PM
I don't know what to tell you since AS story is that he last saw her at 8 pm. She was in the main house and he retired to the guest house. If he retired to the guest house and she later stopped by then his story presumably wouldn't be he last saw her at 8 pm.

It does not say she later stopped by HIS master bedroom. There are two. He had flown in that night and was probably tired and distraught. he may have gone to sleep. so if she went to the other bedroom and prepared for bed he would not have seen her. imoo

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 10:58 PM
Again, that doesn't fit with his statement that he last saw her at 8 pm when he retired to the guest house. She was in the main house. If she decided to sleep in the other bedroom of the guest house his statement should have been completely different, no?

Not if he had retired to Bedroom #1 and shut the door. He wouldn't have seen her retreat to Bedroom #2.

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 11:00 PM
Wish I could get him to talk to my DH....:floorlaugh:

LOL! Guess you have to get one that was trained early.

My hubby always had to make his bed up first thing when he was growing up and he still does it if he gets up after me. Makes up the bed as neat as I do too.:floorlaugh:

elementry
09-06-2011, 11:00 PM
The autopsy report also states that Rebecca had her eye makeup tattooed on; not that she couldn't use the makeup remover for other makeup that she was wearing, but I found that interesting, especially now that we have makeup remover in the guest house.

Regarding the lack of AS's DNA on the rope- do we know for sure that he simply reached up quickly and cut her down? I don't know that we do. I'm envisioning him finding the body, running to her, possibly touching her and/or the rope in an attempt to get her down, running in for a knife, and then...what? He stands on the table- does he let her drop to the ground? Does he prop her up on himself? I can definitely see a scenario where there could be DNA and fingerprints all over her and the rope. Of course, that in and of itself wouldn't be suspicious- he cut her down. The lack thereof does give me pause.

Regarding the message, the placement of it is kind of strange to me. Disclaimer: I know we can't apply logic to suicidal people, but I am not sure how else we'd examine such a case. Presumably she knew JS wasn't coming home- she had the voicemail and was also going to bring him clothes. That leaves AS. I am unclear on the layout of the grounds but wouldn't she realize AS would find her outside? That no one would first find the door message/be able to "save her", if that were ever her intention? Who did she think would first find a message on that door who wasn't first going to find her outside? This is, of course, assuming she wrote it, which I don't believe she did. But it's almost as if it were intended for someone who would be looking for her via the main house, which wouldn't be AS given what we're told, and wouldn't be JS, at least not for quite some time. Things that make you go hmmm.

Tattooed on eye make-up? How garish, so overdone on her if it's that blue stuff. Of course, JS is in the vanity biz - that restylane can make a perfectly human face into an over-puffed caricature. JS also has been spoken of as a control freak; perhaps he insisted RN get that permanent make-up, his modified oriental quasi-geisha......

jjenny
09-06-2011, 11:01 PM
It does not say she later stopped by HIS master bedroom. There are two. He had flown in that night and was probably tired and distraught. he may have gone to sleep. so if she went to the other bedroom and prepared for bed he would not have seen her. imoo

Really? You think she could get into the bedroom of a guest house without telling him and he had no idea? How likely is that story?

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 11:01 PM
-------------------------------------------------------------
Don't forget......
-Red bath towel found in mansion hallway, so some where in the timeline she took a shower or bath. Blood also found in hallway, so maybe nicked her legs shaving or waxing or ...?
- AS says he last saw her in the mansion at 8pm- not the guesthouse although a womans clothing was found there......
-RN got call from JS about MS taking turn for worse - didn't that wake AS and he would realize she was not in bed?
-Wouldn't JS have called AS regarding MS if he couldn't reach RN - he is so controlling that I would think he would ask his brother what she was doing or want to talk to someone supportive if he was that sad....

Side note;
-Did I hear a candle was found on ground where she jumped? So, was she bound yet carrying candle, then jumped over railing or was candle to light up courtyard so someone could see or just left there from prior event
-Was RN hair wet or dry after shower - no comment in autopsy
-Was there loud music or not? Was there a party or not? AS surely would check it out if true....
-IF RN retired to guesthouse later, wouldn't she have woken AS and he would have seen her there?
-Did LE check for anesthetic with short acting half life that could have been injected to temp. sedate/paralyze her. Some drugs in and out of system fast. I would hope they checked for obscure drugs.... Could you be injected with Botox or Restalyne in spine and cause paralysis? Just asking....

INteresting....first time I heard this...

So possible she was in middle of retiring for the evening, had removed clothing, makeup, when something called her attention back to mainhouse (phone, noise, etc) so she wrapped in towel to address whatever it was, and encountered a person known/unknown to her in mainhouse?

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 11:02 PM
I don't know what to tell you since AS story is that he last saw her at 8 pm. She was in the main house and he retired to the guest house. If he retired to the guest house and she later stopped by then his story presumably wouldn't be he last saw her at 8 pm.

Unless he was asleep - this was 8PM PST - his body clock was an hour or two ahead?

katydid23
09-06-2011, 11:03 PM
Also, regarding Rebecca's guilt, or lack thereof- I do agree that pretty much anyone would feel guilty if a child had a fatal accident while in their care. I don't see how you could not. However, I feel like there are two things in play- one would be guilt for his death and one would be guilt for being the person in charge when he died. They are not the same to me. We still don't have a firm grasp on what happened to Max- yes, we have LE's best guess, but we don't know for sure. Perhaps she was in the bathroom and Max chose that time to go barreling towards the stairs; perhaps she was truly not responsible for a split second accident. I think it's entirely possible she could feel guilt that it happened on her watch yet not necessarily feel guilt over his death, knowing there wasn't anything she could have done. And the autopsy report says she didn't feel "excessive guilt" (or something along those lines). It didn't say she felt no guilt whatsoever, regardless of what the attorney is saying 7 weeks after the fact.


If the accident happened the way LE showed in their animation then yes, it was a split second tragedy and she could not have prevented it. But the family attorney is trying to paint it as a planking accident, involving the older S siblings as well. If that is true, then she holds more responsibility, imo.

I only pointed out what the attorney Bremner was saying because I think it is innaccurate and insensitive, which describes her professionally to a Tee. imoo

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 11:03 PM
Really? You think she could get into the bedroom of a guest house without telling him and he had no idea? How likely is that story?

People who live in two bedroom apartments do it all the time. I know I did when I was in college....don't think I ever disturbed my roommate when I came home late after she had already gone to bed (and it was a SMALL, starving college student apartment!!) LOL

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 11:03 PM
INteresting....first time I heard this...

So possible she was in middle of retiring for the evening, had removed clothing, makeup, when something called her attention back to mainhouse (phone, noise, etc) so she wrapped in towel to address whatever it was, and encountered a person known/unknown to her in mainhouse?

I don't think it was confirmed that there was blood in the hallway - only a red stain in the carpet.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 11:05 PM
People who live in two bedroom apartments do it all the time. I know I did when I was in college....don't think I ever disturbed my roommate when I came home late after she had already gone to bed (and it was a SMALL, starving college student apartment!!) LOL

She didn't live in a two bedroom apartment. She had a whole mansion to herself. What would be her reason for sneaking into a bedroom of a guest house when there was AS staying in a second bedroom (and without AS knowing?)

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 11:07 PM
INteresting....first time I heard this...

So possible she was in middle of retiring for the evening, had removed clothing, makeup, when something called her attention back to mainhouse (phone, noise, etc) so she wrapped in towel to address whatever it was, and encountered a person known/unknown to her in mainhouse?

You sure could be right.....maybe she realized she forgot her phone and went back to get it and that is when she realized Jonah had left her the voice mail with the horrible news about Max.

IMO

curiousjo
09-06-2011, 11:07 PM
Do we know if they actually spoke/voicemail or if a text was sent? All I have read is she "received a message".....

Or did I read that they have records that she called voicemail and retrieved message? :waitasec:

She got a call - that went to voicemail. Then, LE believes she listened to message at 1250, then deleted it.

deanna82437
09-06-2011, 11:08 PM
Again, that doesn't fit with his statement that he last saw her at 8 pm when he retired to the guest house. She was in the main house. If she decided to sleep in the other bedroom of the guest house his statement should have been completely different, no?

OR, he was asleep, tired from his trip and did not see or even know that she was in the guest house?

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 11:08 PM
In the photos she appears to wear eye shadow to match her clothes, so it wouldn't be a permanent tattoo because she had to change it to match her clothes. I think she might have some tattooed on, doesn't mean she didn't wear additional make up.

I have a client who had her eyeLINER tattooed on....eyeliner only.

ETA: (And still freaks me out when I see it!)

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 11:08 PM
If the accident happened the way LE showed in their animation then yes, it was a split second tragedy and she could not have prevented it. But the family attorney is trying to paint it as a planking accident, involving the older S siblings as well. If that is true, then she holds more responsibility, imo.

I only pointed out what the attorney Bremner was saying because I think it is innaccurate and insensitive, which describes her professionally to a Tee. imoo

I think that there may have been planking going on before Max's accident. I think the older kids may have been planking and or owling but this had nothing to do with Max's death. Bringing this issue up does of course give an attorney an opening to raise new questions about the police report and follow new threads. That's how attorney's work they build their case by tying things together and looking for opportunities to elicit new information and new questions. That's all she's doing here.

katydid23
09-06-2011, 11:08 PM
Really? You think she could get into the bedroom of a guest house without telling him and he had no idea? How likely is that story?

I see no problem with it if he was asleep. It was not his usual bedroom, not a usual situation. She did not have to enter his room to go into the next one. And maybe she told him already that she was going to sleep next door.

Why is it that every single thing brings up such outrage and disbelief? He goes to sleep at 8 pm, which would be 10 pm his time. And being a tow boat guy he probably got up at 5 or so. So he was an early to sleep guy probably. Why so outrageous that someone could enter the other bedroom and get ready for bed without disturbing him?

oceanblueeyes
09-06-2011, 11:09 PM
She didn't live in a two bedroom apartment. She had a whole mansion to herself. What would be her reason for sneaking into a bedroom of a guest house when there was AS staying in a second bedroom (and without AS knowing?)

Maybe she was scared to stay by herself in that huge mansion since her sister had gone home.

IMO

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 11:11 PM
She didn't live in a two bedroom apartment. She had a whole mansion to herself. What would be her reason for sneaking into a bedroom of a guest house when there was AS staying in a second bedroom (and without AS knowing?)

1. Jonah didn't want her in the main house anymore.
2. She felt alone in the main house.

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 11:11 PM
You know, the autopsy report seems awfully vague, just as the PC was. Who's clothing was it? Was the make up on the removal pad traced to anyone?

Could they trace the person who left the clothes and make up pad behind, to someone at the mansion at the time of Rebecca's death? Or do they know they belonged to Rebecca? If so, why were they in the guest house, but she was found in the main house?

Where was she when she 'missed' the 12:50 phone call?

And just for the record. Your g/f is at home alone with the brother you are not that close to. You can't reach her at 12:50 a.m. You have proven yourself to be controlling, exerting power over people, having ex wives boyfriends followed, checkec out and spied on, but you let this incident pass?

Sorry, don't buy it.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 11:12 PM
Maybe she was scared to stay by herself in that huge mansion since her sister had gone home.

IMO

LE tells us she killed herself that night. What was she scared of? Somebody was going to kill her before she did it herself?

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 11:12 PM
She didn't live in a two bedroom apartment. She had a whole mansion to herself. What would be her reason for sneaking into a bedroom of a guest house when there was AS staying in a second bedroom (and without AS knowing?)

I am still trying to get your point :waitasec:

Why do we have her sneaking anywhere?????? And if she didn't at least originally go to bed in the other bedroom, who did? The bed was unmade and there was woman's clothing on the floor???

katydid23
09-06-2011, 11:13 PM
She didn't live in a two bedroom apartment. She had a whole mansion to herself. What would be her reason for sneaking into a bedroom of a guest house when there was AS staying in a second bedroom (and without AS knowing?)

Maybe the fact that she had seen a beloved 6 yr old fall to his death in the entryway. I would not want to sleep in there alone that night either. It was probably painful to be in that mansion that night.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 11:14 PM
1. Jonah didn't want her in the main house anymore.
2. She felt alone in the main house.

If JS didn't want her in the main house then why didn't she tell AS she was going to stay in the guest house?

As for feeling alone, if she was suicidal, what did she need company for?

sorrell skye
09-06-2011, 11:16 PM
Page 7 of the autopsy report:

The decedent's long hair passed between the skin of her neck and the rope ligature.

I've had long hair my entire life. It's an automatic reaction for anyone with long hair to remove their hair out from under anything restrictive (collar, purse strap, seat belt, etc.).

I don't believe Rebecca would have put a noose around her neck and left her hair underneath it.

IMO, someone else placed the noose around her neck.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 11:17 PM
Page 7 of the autopsy report:

The decedent's long hair passed between the skin of her neck and the rope ligature.

I've had long hair my entire life. It's an automatic reaction for anyone with long hair to remove their hair out from under anything restrictive (collar, purse strap, seat belt, etc.).

I don't believe Rebecca would have put a noose around her neck and left her hair underneath it.

Yes, they say her hair was underneath the rope. Suicidal or not, I'd think a natural instinct would be to pull the hair from underneath the rope, and supposedly she did not do that.

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 11:18 PM
Page 7 of the autopsy report:

The decedent's long hair passed between the skin of her neck and the rope ligature.

I've had long hair my entire life. It's an automatic reaction for anyone with long hair to remove their hair out from under anything restrictive (collar, purse strap, seat belt, etc.).

I don't believe Rebecca would have put a noose around her neck and left her hair underneath it.

IMO, someone else placed the noose around her neck.

Agreed, that is an automatic response, to pull your hair out from something.

elementry
09-06-2011, 11:18 PM
I see no problem with it if he was asleep. It was not his usual bedroom, not a usual situation. She did not have to enter his room to go into the next one. And maybe she told him already that she was going to sleep next door.

Why is it that every single thing brings up such outrage and disbelief? He goes to sleep at 8 pm, which would be 10 pm his time. And being a tow boat guy he probably got up at 5 or so. So he was an early to sleep guy probably. Why so outrageous that someone could enter the other bedroom and get ready for bed without disturbing him?

The outrageous part to me is that LE saw fit not to mention this torrent of additional information that's been pouring out. Do you find every last bit of information that we've come to know in the 4 days since the presentation as irrelevant to the case? It just seems to defy logic when you look back at that very circumscribed presentation of cherry-picked facts that went into the show last Friday.

jjenny
09-06-2011, 11:19 PM
I am still trying to get your point :waitasec:

Why do we have her sneaking anywhere?????? And if she didn't at least originally go to bed in the other bedroom, who did? The bed was unmade and there was woman's clothing on the floor???

My point is, the story of AS was is that he last saw her at 8 pm. She was in the main house. He retired to the guest house. There is nothing in his story about seeing RN after he retired to the guest house. I have no idea whose clothing that was but one would think LE should have checked. But did they?

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 11:19 PM
The outrageous part to me is that LE saw fit not to mention this torrent of additional information that's been pouring out. Do you find every last bit of information that we've come to know in the 4 days since the presentation as irrelevant to the case? It just seems to defy logic when you look back at that very circumscribed presentation of cherry-picked facts that went into the show last Friday.

Exactly!! The omissions are outrageous.

ehough22
09-06-2011, 11:20 PM
If the accident happened the way LE showed in their animation then yes, it was a split second tragedy and she could not have prevented it. But the family attorney is trying to paint it as a planking accident, involving the older S siblings as well. If that is true, then she holds more responsibility, imo.

I only pointed out what the attorney Bremner was saying because I think it is innaccurate and insensitive, which describes her professionally to a Tee. imoo

I agree with you there- seems to me Bremner is trying to argue Rebecca had no reason to commit suicide since she felt no guilt; in doing so she makes Rebecca come off callous and well, maybe even suspicious if she truly felt no guilt over the death of a child. I don't believe it was suicide but the only thing that gives me pause is the overwhelming guilt she must have felt over Max; I think Bremner is aware of the huge question her guilt creates and is trying to remove that thought from the public's minds even though it isn't necessarily accurate.

I don't know Bremner from a hole in the wall and have no feelings about her either way, but she does seem to be doing an awful lot of shooting from the hip here. Throwing out inaccurate or, at best, unverified information- perhaps things she's heard from one person or another but she regurgitates it all as fact. I get what she's trying to do, which is to get this tried in the court of public opinion, and by stating things that clearly go against LE's version of events, she's getting attention. But getting facts wrong just to make her point isn't going to win her a lot of fans in the end. I wish she would be a little more...cautious in her statements. Not everything has to be an explosive bombshell- there's enough here to look at. I don't know that she's doing it maliciously and again, I see what she's trying to do, but some restraint may be necessary (oh geez, no pun intended).

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 11:22 PM
Agreed, that is an automatic response, to pull your hair out from something.

I have had long hair for years...until about 6 months ago...and I STILL pull my "no longer existant" hair out from something....

As you can imagine, I probably look pretty damn silly doing it!!! :great:

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 11:23 PM
The outrageous part to me is that LE saw fit not to mention this torrent of additional information that's been pouring out. Do you find every last bit of information that we've come to know in the 4 days since the presentation as irrelevant to the case? It just seems to defy logic when you look back at that very circumscribed presentation of cherry-picked facts that went into the show last Friday.

And I didn't see any of it, but did I hear on HLN tonight that the news conference actually lasted two hours????

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 11:25 PM
I have had long hair for years...until about 6 months ago...and I STILL pull my "no longer existant" hair out from something....

As you can imagine, I probably look pretty damn silly doing it!!! :great:

:great:lol, automatic response and I do it when I cut my hair also.

elementry
09-06-2011, 11:25 PM
Not everything has to be an explosive bombshell- there's enough here to look at. I don't know that she's doing it maliciously and again, I see what she's trying to do, but some restraint may be necessary (oh geez, no pun intended).

No worries, we won't get hung up on that.........

:innocent:

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 11:25 PM
If JS didn't want her in the main house then why didn't she tell AS she was going to stay in the guest house?

As for feeling alone, if she was suicidal, what did she need company for?

I don't think Adam was compelled to tell LE that Jonah didn't want Rebecca staying in the main house. What he said was truthful he retired at 8PM and last saw her in the main house. He did not say he saw her sleeping in the main house. He didn't add any further information and apparently as far as we know LE didn't inquire about the women's clothing on the floor.

Even if Jonah had told Adam to make sure that Rebecca left the main house - I'm not sure he would have been keen on stepping in as some sort of enforcer. Sounds like he really didn't want to get into the middle of it. He probably had to rush to Coronado thinking that he would be able to focus on his nephew and instead he was thrown into the middle of all this blame, anger, and controlling behavior.

I don't think she was truly suicidal until the final news came that Max would no longer be with us. I also think that up the last second before she jumped she needed and wanted company. You kill yourself because you feel that you are utterly alone and there is no way out.

Peaceful
09-06-2011, 11:26 PM
Page 7 of the autopsy report:

The decedent's long hair passed between the skin of her neck and the rope ligature.

I've had long hair my entire life. It's an automatic reaction for anyone with long hair to remove their hair out from under anything restrictive (collar, purse strap, seat belt, etc.).

I don't believe Rebecca would have put a noose around her neck and left her hair underneath it.

IMO, someone else placed the noose around her ne!ck.

I thought the EXACT same thing. It is SO natural to do that. You are not alone on this thought

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 11:27 PM
I agree with you there- seems to me Bremner is trying to argue Rebecca had no reason to commit suicide since she felt no guilt; in doing so she makes Rebecca come off callous and well, maybe even suspicious if she truly felt no guilt over the death of a child. I don't believe it was suicide but the only thing that gives me pause is the overwhelming guilt she must have felt over Max; I think Bremner is aware of the huge question her guilt creates and is trying to remove that thought from the public's minds even though it isn't necessarily accurate.

I don't know Bremner from a hole in the wall and have no feelings about her either way, but she does seem to be doing an awful lot of shooting from the hip here. Throwing out inaccurate or, at best, unverified information- perhaps things she's heard from one person or another but she regurgitates it all as fact. I get what she's trying to do, which is to get this tried in the court of public opinion, and by stating things that clearly go against LE's version of events, she's getting attention. But getting facts wrong just to make her point isn't going to win her a lot of fans in the end. I wish she would be a little more...cautious in her statements. Not everything has to be an explosive bombshell- there's enough here to look at. I don't know that she's doing it maliciously and again, I see what she's trying to do, but some restraint may be necessary (oh geez, no pun intended).

If memory serves me correctly, this is exactly what she was doing when she played the role of "legal analyst" during the Casey Anthony trial, as well as post-verdict, much to the anger and chagrin of case followers..... :banghead:

I personally was a bit shocked that she was retained as counsel for RS family...

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 11:27 PM
No worries, we won't get hung up on that.........

:innocent:

ok, I know i am getting tired as this is :floorlaugh:

elementry
09-06-2011, 11:29 PM
And I didn't see any of it, but did I hear on HLN tonight that the news conference actually lasted two hours????

I suppose. The initial presentation was about 35 minutes maybe? The rest was the press asking some (preliminary) questions. It should be noted that the (only) Q and A time reporters were granted (case closed) happened before the press could even get a close look at all the subsequent documents and alleged facts that have leaked. A follow-up Q and A seems inevitable now, unless LE has decided to mothball this and hide in their bunker.

katydid23
09-06-2011, 11:30 PM
I agree with you there- seems to me Bremner is trying to argue Rebecca had no reason to commit suicide since she felt no guilt; in doing so she makes Rebecca come off callous and well, maybe even suspicious if she truly felt no guilt over the death of a child. I don't believe it was suicide but the only thing that gives me pause is the overwhelming guilt she must have felt over Max; I think Bremner is aware of the huge question her guilt creates and is trying to remove that thought from the public's minds even though it isn't necessarily accurate.

I don't know Bremner from a hole in the wall and have no feelings about her either way, but she does seem to be doing an awful lot of shooting from the hip here. Throwing out inaccurate or, at best, unverified information- perhaps things she's heard from one person or another but she regurgitates it all as fact. I get what she's trying to do, which is to get this tried in the court of public opinion, and by stating things that clearly go against LE's version of events, she's getting attention. But getting facts wrong just to make her point isn't going to win her a lot of fans in the end. I wish she would be a little more...cautious in her statements. Not everything has to be an explosive bombshell- there's enough here to look at. I don't know that she's doing it maliciously and again, I see what she's trying to do, but some restraint may be necessary (oh geez, no pun intended).

I am not very objective because I dislike Bremner because of her schlocky job as a spokesperson for Casey Anthony's defense team. She went on the airwaves and repeated the lies about Casey;s dad abusing her as a child, and she said some other ridiculous stuff just for the $. So I am not a fan.

[ And my dad was a defense attorney so i have loads of respect for good ones.]

But Bremner says things like " NEVER in the history of the entire WORLD..."

I mean come on, how can she possibly say that with any credibility. It is just exaggerated histrionics, imo. And there is no need for it.

And having her sister repeating over and over that she is a practicing strict Christian who would NEVER kill herself because of her religious beliefs...She was living in sin with a newly divorced man and she did get busted for shoplifting recently. So she was not taking all of her sacred vows that seriously it seems. And just because she seemed normal and fine hours earlier---it often happens just that way.

Sure, some of the facts in evidence seem hinky and I have some concerns, but I think it is unfair to accuse LE of tampering w/evidence and covering things up. It may be that they have explanations for much of this. imoo

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 11:30 PM
I don't think Adam was compelled to tell LE that Jonah didn't want Rebecca staying in the main house. What he said was truthful he retired at 8PM and last saw her in the main house. He did not say he saw her sleeping in the main house. He didn't add any further information and apparently as far as we know LE didn't inquire about the women's clothing on the floor.

Even if Jonah had told Adam to make sure that Rebecca left the main house - I'm not sure he would have been keen on stepping in as some sort of enforcer. Sounds like he really didn't want to get into the middle of it. He probably had to rush to Coronado thinking that he would be able to focus on his nephew and instead he was thrown into the middle of all this blame, anger, and controlling behavior.

I don't think she was truly suicidal until the final news came that Max would no longer be with us. I also think that up the last second before she jumped she needed and wanted company. You kill yourself because you feel that you are utterly alone and there is no way out.

Just so I am straight on this issue and assumption/rumor doesn't eventually get twisted into "fact"...

Where is this statement that Jonah did not want Rebecca in the mainhouse coming from? Was this stated by Adam...or part of someone's theory that is taking on a life of its own?

Just asking...cause I am :waitasec:

jjenny
09-06-2011, 11:32 PM
Just so I am straight on this issue and assumption/rumor doesn't eventually get twisted into "fact"...

Where is this statement that Jonah did not want Rebecca in the mainhouse coming from? Was this stated by Adam...or part of someone's theory that is taking on a life of its own?

Just asking...cause I am :waitasec:

It's coming from nowhere. It's a complete speculation. Neither JS nor AS ever suggested JS did not want RN in the main house.

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 11:32 PM
If memory serves me correctly, this is exactly what she was doing when she played the role of "legal analyst" during the Casey Anthony trial, as well as post-verdict, much to the anger and chagrin of case followers..... :banghead:

I personally was a bit shocked that she was retained as counsel for RS family...

I have a feeling she may have approached Rebecca's family. At this point, I think it is good the information is getting put 'out there', but I hope it doesn't backfire on them down the road.

HowLoveCanBe
09-06-2011, 11:34 PM
Just so I am straight on this issue and assumption/rumor doesn't eventually get twisted into "fact"...

Where is this statement that Jonah did not want Rebecca in the mainhouse coming from? Was this stated by Adam...or part of someone's theory that is taking on a life of its own?

Just asking...cause I am :waitasec:

It's just my theory - I am making a case that Rebecca was systematically isolated or punished for what occurred with Max. Kids all whisked away, dog boarded up, not allowed to be in the ICU, and now maybe not allowed to be in the main house. It's just a theory - but I think at each step of the way Rebecca felt more trapped and that the life she knew was slipping away.

Kentjbkent
09-06-2011, 11:36 PM
I am not very objective because I dislike Bremner because of her schlocky job as a spokesperson for Casey Anthony's defense team. She went on the airwaves and repeated the lies about Casey;s dad abusing her as a child, and she said some other ridiculous stuff just for the $. So I am not a fan.

[ And my dad was a defense attorney so i have loads of respect for good ones.]

But Bremner says things like " NEVER in the history of the entire WORLD..."

I mean come on, how can she possibly say that with any credibility. It is just exaggerated histrionics, imo. And there is no need for it.

And having her sister repeating over and over that she is a practicing strict Christian who would NEVER kill herself because of her religious beliefs...She was living in sin with a newly divorced man and she did get busted for shoplifting recently. So she was not taking all of her sacred vows that seriously it seems. And just because she seemed normal and fine hours earlier---it often happens just that way.

Sure, some of the facts in evidence seem hinky and I have some concerns, but I think it is unfair to accuse LE of tampering w/evidence and covering things up. It may be that they have explanations for much of this. imoo

Just to be fair.....I have not yet read of anyone making any particular accusations against LE of tampering with evidence or covering anything up.

This forum is called WebSLEUTHS and that is one of its purposes....to clearly state various theories and plausible explanations and then sleuth out whether or not they "hold water". THis is why In My Opinion (IMO) is so important.

There are obviously MANY questions concerning the actions and statements (or lack of) of LE in this case, and it is completely within WS TOS to ponder them....

Just a friendly reminder....

jjenny
09-06-2011, 11:38 PM
Just to be fair.....I have not yet read of anyone making any particular accusations against LE of tampering with evidence or covering anything up.

This forum is called WebSLEUTHS and that is one of its purposes....to clearly state various theories and plausible explanations and then sleuth out whether or not they "hold water". THis is why In My Opinion (IMO) is so important.

There are obviously MANY questions concerning the actions and statements (or lack of) of LE in this case, and it is completely within WS TOS to ponder them....

Just a friendly reminder....

I have many questions about LE's actions or lack thereof, in this case, that's for sure. Especially with all the information from the autopsy report that came out.

SunnieRN
09-06-2011, 11:40 PM
Wouldn't you think that if a naked woman was found hanging in the courtyard, that a good place to start, would be to find out if the clothes in the guest house belonged to her?

These are the kinds of loose ends I am not understanding in this investigation.

deanna82437
09-06-2011, 11:42 PM
From Dr. Drew Show tonight ..

We actually reached out to Jonah Shacknai for statement. He is not available because he`s with his family at present, but we were able to speak to a close source, very close to him, and the source said the following. Now, this is an exclusive comment to HLN.

"Four different independent law enforcement agencies did a thorough and complete investigation, and each concluded that Rebecca`s death was a suicide. That conclusion was based on irrefutable DNA, fingerprint, and physical footprint evidence, all of which showed that Rebecca`s death was a suicide and not a homicide."

(Now he is speaking of the knot-tying video)
PINSKY: -- because we actually have that video. We have the video of the investigators showing a demonstration.

I mean, I`m looking at this, Mary, and I think you`d have to be an expert in knot-tying and how to use ropes.

Mary, to your knowledge, did your sister have that kind of knowledge?

MARY ZAHAU, REBECCA ZAHAU`S SISTER: No. My sister does not have a knowledge of that kind. None of us really do.

We didn`t even grow up around water. So, a little bit of swimming that we know we have learned after we have been grownups. So we don`t really know that kind of rope-tying. And just the fact that they`re saying my sister came up with this ingenious idea of committing a suicide in a short time frame is beyond me.

PINSKY: Now, investigators showed a video explaining the suicide message also. Those painted in black on the guestroom door. The phrase was, "She saved him. Can you (sic) save her?"

Mary, I want to ask you, did the handwriting even look like her? And does this sound like something your sister would concoct?

ZAHAU: First, I want to clarify what it says. It says, "She saved him. Can he save her?" It`s not a "you," it`s a "he." Everything is in third person.

"And no, absolutely, that does not sound like my sister at all. And she does not even write in block. I have been digging through every writing that she has to try to compare it. Nothing she has ever written looks like that."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/06/ddhln.01.html

Salem
09-06-2011, 11:43 PM
Hey Guys - let's move it over: CA - Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #10 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Please read the opening post on the new thread and remember to treat each other respectfully.

Thanks,

Salem