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arielilane
09-11-2011, 02:04 PM
http://www.wuerziworld.de/Smilies/pc/pc30.gif Please feel free to add your opinion. This is not an attack or met to offend anyone. This poll means nothing; it was generated out of curiosity. Thank you for voting.

Carpe Pacem
09-11-2011, 03:28 PM
"Please feel free to add your opinion. This is not an attack or met to offend anyone. This poll means nothing; it was generated out of curiosity. Thank you for voting."


It's difficult to believe that this woman, who seemed to care so very much about her appearance, would put herself on display in such a bizarre and disgraceful manner.

If she were a loving person, she'd not have created more terrible trauma for the man she loved. Suicide in this manner would seem to be a hateful/rageful act of revenge.

Both families are dealing with heartbreaking loss, and I feel for them.

CDS22
09-11-2011, 04:00 PM
I'm on the fence still. The more I read statements from Rebecca's family, and the more I read on this forum, however, I am leaning towards it being suicide. Well, leaning but not nearly enough to commit.

passionflower
09-11-2011, 04:25 PM
One thing i am certain of is that this was no suicide.
I do believe murder. Jmoo

LaLaw2000
09-11-2011, 05:04 PM
Murder!

MOO

cali_mommy
09-11-2011, 05:09 PM
Murder!!!

oceanblueeyes
09-11-2011, 05:44 PM
Suicide.

If I take Rebecca's sister at her word about Rebecca and Max having a close special relationship like a bio mom and child then it convinces me no matter how Rebecca tried to pretend everything was ok ...........she was not. It also explains why Rebecca referred to Max as her child. Imo that is the way she saw Max. I have often wondered since Rebecca was married for a long time if she could have children of her own. If not, she could put all of her motherly love into the youngest child of the man she loved.

Since I am fortunate to have such special relationships with my husband's children.. now our children........I know how deep that love can be.

The loss of a loved one can trigger suicidal thoughts and she knew by then there was no hope of Max surviving.

I think she was already depressed about it and then the dreaded call came in and the outcome was just too much to take. She knew she had lost Max and her life with Jonah would never be quite the same. Her life immediately changed when Max fell......it changed for the worse when the call came in.

I really think at first she was in denial. That is why she went shopping with her sister before taking her to the airport. In the back of her mind she tried to convince herself that Max was going to survive.

But as she listened to the 12:50 am message she knew that was not going to happen no matter how much she, Jonah and Dina wanted it to.

Combine those traumatic circumstances with LE finding no one else's fingerprints or DNA on any of the items used nor any struggle on the balcony and no footprints but Rebecca's shows me there was no one there with Rebecca at the time she decided to do this.

IMO

jjenny
09-11-2011, 06:01 PM
RN had an IUD device (from the autopsy), suggesting RN at the very least believed she could have children of her own and tried to prevent that from happening. She was still a young woman therefore nothing to suggest she couldn't have decided to have children in the future.

Evan's Mom
09-11-2011, 06:05 PM
I still believe it was suicide.

Bonepile
09-11-2011, 06:16 PM
I still am not sure .. the more I read in threads from everyone's perspectives the more I am unsure. One day I am convinced it is murder .. and the next I am convinced it is suicide. Hopefully we will all know, and all understand one day exactly what it was. Thanks to all for some very convincing comments in both directions.

arielilane
09-11-2011, 06:44 PM
There was no struggle on the balcony because she was gagged and her hands and feet were tied.

justbetweenus
09-11-2011, 06:51 PM
As my past posts have represented since the beginning of this case I was a staunch believer of murder. I'm now believing it was suicide. Thanks for the poll, very interesting.

oceanblueeyes
09-11-2011, 06:56 PM
There was no struggle on the balcony because she was gagged and her hands and feet were tied.

She would still be able to move her feet even though they were loosely bound at the ankles and there was no signs that someone else was on the balcony with her.

IMO

SunnieRN
09-11-2011, 06:59 PM
MURDER, and it would take some very concrete evidence to change my mind. Certainly not texts from January or an erased message that may or may not be what the caller professed it to be. Also, the autopsy report and the inconsistencies of Rebecca's injuries, vs the report of what occurred, would have to be explained, and would have to make sense.

In other words, MURDER!

SunnieRN
09-11-2011, 07:01 PM
She would still be able to move her feet even though they were loosely bound at the ankles and there was no signs that someone else was on the balcony with her.

IMO

Someone would also have had to leave rope marks on the balcony, if someone had hopped there with rope around her ankles and rope trailing behind her, coming from her hands.

ziggy
09-11-2011, 07:27 PM
The thing that bothers me the most is her hair. It seems the noose and the t shirt were wrapped around the outside of her hair - is that so?

oceanblueeyes
09-11-2011, 07:27 PM
Someone would also have had to leave rope marks on the balcony, if someone had hopped there with rope around her ankles and rope trailing behind her, coming from her hands.

Well if anyone did that it had to be Rebecca since there is no evidence anyone else was even out on the balcony or in the guest room.

They certainly couldn't stand in the doorway leading onto the balcony and throw her that far where she would clear the railing.

IMO

oceanblueeyes
09-11-2011, 07:30 PM
The thing that bothers me the most is her hair. It seems the noose and the t shirt were wrapped around the outside of her hair - is that so?

Yes, that is true but why would her hair be on the outside of the noose and shirt? Wouldn't it get in her eyes and possibly block her vision if it was hanging down loose?

IMO

jjenny
09-11-2011, 07:36 PM
Yes, that is true but why would her hair be on the outside of the noose and shirt? Wouldn't it get in her eyes and possibly block her vision if it was hanging down loose?

IMO

Well she apparently didn't worry that a long rope hanging from her hands is going to get caught on something or trip her? But she was worried about her hair so she just pot a noose on the outside of it (which an instinct would presumably prevent in most people, suicidal or not).

oceanblueeyes
09-11-2011, 07:56 PM
Well she apparently didn't worry that a long rope hanging from her hands is going to get caught on something or trip her? But she was worried about her hair so she just pot a noose on the outside of it (which an instinct would presumably prevent in most people, suicidal or not).

I dont think she even thought about it one way or the other except it was a way to make sure she could see what she was doing. She just took the rope and put it over her head which bound her hair, imo.

How would the rope trip her if it was behind her or she was holding it up in her hand?

IMO

ziggy
09-11-2011, 08:23 PM
I'm just thinking (inside the box probably but thinking nonetheless) - hair, drama, painting...if she did commit suicide it was rather dramatic. Then I'm thinking, I'm a woman, why do I want to be found nude? Why? Obviously she had beautiful long hair and a nice petite figure. When I think woman and suicide, especially the rich, (and apparently I haven't done enough research on what women in other countries do) but here anyway, I think of a soft kill, in bed, naked etc.

Now if she was going to be so dramatic about it with absolutely no drugs in her system...I just find the fact that she would not pull her hair out from under the rope and shirt odd that's all. It's like putting a scarf or necklace on and those of us with long hair usually pull our hair out and over it instinctively. If she wanted to be found in a dramatic fashion with ropes and nudity, seems her long hair hanging down would have added to that.

Then again, if there was some sort of brutality in the message, her looking truly bound against her will, then I can see doing it like she is alleged to have done.

It's just one of those little things that seemed to bug me.

elfie
09-11-2011, 08:37 PM
Well if anyone did that it had to be Rebecca since there is no evidence anyone else was even out on the balcony or in the guest room.

They certainly couldn't stand in the doorway leading onto the balcony and throw her that far where she would clear the railing.

IMO

It could have been accomplished by holding Rebecca in place to make her first foot prints, then removing her to place the chair (sideways) halfway to the railing with only two (chair) feet on the balcony. (We can see that the footprint of the chair legs would be tiny since we can see the bottom of the legs in some of the evidence pictures).

Then, replacing the chair, climbing on and lifting Rebecca with the extra rope and then holding her to make the toe prints at the rail and then up and over. The extra height from the chair would have made it easier to get her over the railing from the halfway distance.

CDS22
09-11-2011, 08:39 PM
I'm just thinking (inside the box probably but thinking nonetheless) - hair, drama, painting...if she did commit suicide it was rather dramatic. Then I'm thinking, I'm a woman, why do I want to be found nude? Why? Obviously she had beautiful long hair and a nice petite figure. When I think woman and suicide, especially the rich, (and apparently I haven't done enough research on what women in other countries do) but here anyway, I think of a soft kill, in bed, naked etc.

Now if she was going to be so dramatic about it with absolutely no drugs in her system...I just find the fact that she would not pull her hair out from under the rope and shirt odd that's all. It's like putting a scarf or necklace on and those of us with long hair usually pull our hair out and over it instinctively. If she wanted to be found in a dramatic fashion with ropes and nudity, seems her long hair hanging down would have added to that.

Then again, if there was some sort of brutality in the message, her looking truly bound against her will, then I can see doing it like she is alleged to have done.

It's just one of those little things that seemed to bug me.

I have waist length hair and I always keep it tucked inside scarves and even wear it inside my coat in the wintertime. I didn't know that was unusual.

justice be served
09-11-2011, 08:41 PM
Well if anyone did that it had to be Rebecca since there is no evidence anyone else was even out on the balcony or in the guest room.

They certainly couldn't stand in the doorway leading onto the balcony and throw her that far where she would clear the railing.
IMO

BBM
Rebecca only weighed 100 pounds and prior posts are suggesting that the balcony was only 27" deep which makes it conceivable that she could be thrown over. Maybe it took two people to do it. Anyone want to mock this one up now? :floorlaugh:

oceanblueeyes
09-11-2011, 08:51 PM
It could have been accomplished by holding Rebecca in place to make her first foot prints, then removing her to place the chair (sideways) halfway to the railing with only two (chair) feet on the balcony. (We can see that the footprint of the chair legs would be tiny since we can see the bottom of the legs in some of the evidence pictures).

Then, replacing the chair, climbing on and lifting Rebecca with the extra rope and then holding her to make the toe prints at the rail and then up and over. The extra height from the chair would have made it easier to get her over the railing from the halfway distance.

That seems so elaborate imo.

Do you really think that happened?



IMO

oceanblueeyes
09-11-2011, 08:55 PM
BBM
Rebecca only weighed 100 pounds and prior posts are suggesting that the balcony was only 27" deep which makes it conceivable that she could be thrown over. Maybe it took two people to do it. Anyone want to mock this one up now? :floorlaugh:

A hundred pounds is a lot of weight to throw almost three feet and clear a railing.

And some talk about how hard it was for Rebecca to use all this rope but a 'perp' can do all this and the rope doesn't get tangled up for them?

I am convinced it was a suicide but I sure enjoy reading the many theories given by others.

IMO

oceanblueeyes
09-11-2011, 09:00 PM
There was no struggle on the balcony because she was gagged and her hands and feet were tied.

So you think she just walked out there calmly and jumped? She could still have dropped her body to the bottom of the balcony floor in resistance and kicked at the perp even with her feet bound.

No one is just going to plunge to their death without trying to hedge going over unless they have decided on committing suicide and walk out there and repel off.

IMO

elfie
09-11-2011, 09:04 PM
So you think she just walked out there calmly and jumped? She could still have dropped her body to the bottom of the balcony floor in resistance and kicked at the perp even with her feet bound.

No one is just going to plunge to their death without trying to hedge going over unless they have decided on committing suicide and walk out there and repel off.

IMO

If she went over the balcony railing by another, I believe she was already dead it this point, from strangulation.

arielilane
09-11-2011, 09:07 PM
So you think she just walked out there calmly and jumped? She could still have dropped her body to the bottom of the balcony floor in resistance and kicked at the perp even with her feet bound.

No one is just going to plunge to their death without trying to hedge going over unless they have decided on committing suicide and walk out there and repel off.

IMO
My opinion differs from your opinion. I believe she was helped out there.

elfie
09-11-2011, 09:12 PM
That seems so elaborate imo.

Do you really think that happened?



IMO

I have for awhile. Certainly no less elaborate than the knots that were tied, tie off to the bed and cryptic message painted on a door.

Any woman tying off to the bed would have wrapped it around the leg and -possibly- the bottom rail of the foot board as well. I mentioned the bizarre tie off to the bed the day after the PC.

arielilane
09-11-2011, 09:14 PM
If she went over the balcony railing by another, I believe she was already dead it this point, from strangulation.
I believe the autopsy report stated that death was not instantaneous, she would have been alive for about 10 minutes. If I recall correctly.

elfie
09-11-2011, 09:18 PM
I believe the autopsy report stated that death was not instantaneous, she would have been alive for about 10 minutes. If I recall correctly.

I think the hanging was staged as a suicide because she was actually strangled.

jjenny
09-11-2011, 09:19 PM
I believe the autopsy report stated that death was not instantaneous, she would have been alive for about 10 minutes. If I recall correctly.

I don't believe AR says anything like that. I think people reading AR have been speculating to that effect.

arielilane
09-11-2011, 09:32 PM
That is correct, it's speculation.

justice be served
09-11-2011, 09:36 PM
A hundred pounds is a lot of weight to throw almost three feet and clear a railing.

And some talk about how hard it was for Rebecca to use all this rope but a 'perp' can do all this and the rope doesn't get tangled up for them?

I am convinced it was a suicide but I sure enjoy reading the many theories given by others.

IMO

BBM
Yes, I agree it would be a task to do so though I don't think it was 3 feet and if it was closer to 2 feet it is conceivable. I guess we'll just have to try this! Now if I can only find someone 100 pounds.

justice be served
09-11-2011, 09:40 PM
I have looked at Cyril Wecht's statements about the contusions on Rebecca's head. I thought - but haven't found anything - that he or another forensics expert said those marks could be enough to knock R out? I may be way off base here though that thought is nagging at me. Anyone have a reference to that effect that she could have been knocked out first?

SophieRose
09-11-2011, 09:49 PM
I don't believe AR says anything like that. I think people reading AR have been speculating to that effect.
I think it came from here http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2011/09/02/20110902shacknai-death-medicis-ceo-san-diego-police-findings.html

She made her way onto a small balcony. She put her hands behind her back, forcing them into a binding. Then, she leaned over, far over. The drop was 9 feet. Her neck did not break. She lost consciousness in 15 seconds and died about 20 minutes later.

I didn't see the press conference so I don't know if they got that from it. Anyone have a link to the press conference?

oceanblueeyes
09-11-2011, 10:02 PM
BBM
Yes, I agree it would be a task to do so though I don't think it was 3 feet and if it was closer to 2 feet it is conceivable. I guess we'll just have to try this! Now if I can only find someone 100 pounds.

Didnt LE say it was 3 feet from the door to the balcony or was that how high the railing was?

:floorlaugh: Now I am glad I weigh 119 pounds so that rules me out.

I dont want anyone trying to throw me three feet.:floorlaugh:

oceanblueeyes
09-11-2011, 10:09 PM
I think it came from here http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2011/09/02/20110902shacknai-death-medicis-ceo-san-diego-police-findings.html

She made her way onto a small balcony. She put her hands behind her back, forcing them into a binding. Then, she leaned over, far over. The drop was 9 feet. Her neck did not break. She lost consciousness in 15 seconds and died about 20 minutes later.

I didn't see the press conference so I don't know if they got that from it. Anyone have a link to the press conference?

Dr. Lucas did mention that in the PC.

IMO

oceanblueeyes
09-11-2011, 10:11 PM
I have looked at Cyril Wecht's statements about the contusions on Rebecca's head. I thought - but haven't found anything - that he or another forensics expert said those marks could be enough to knock R out? I may be way off base here though that thought is nagging at me. Anyone have a reference to that effect that she could have been knocked out first?

I couldnt find that one right away but I found a statement by Dr. Spitz.

Renowned forensic pathologist Dr. Werner Spitz, who testified during the Casey Anthony trial, told ABCNews.com today it's entirely possible Zahau hit her head while hanging.

"When the body first dropped, she doesn't necessarily jump to her death, so she would drop directly downward and she could easily hit against the side of the structure from which she is hanging," he said.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/rebecca-zahaus-death-ritualistic-killing-expert/story?id=14463695

ziggy
09-11-2011, 10:27 PM
I have waist length hair and I always keep it tucked inside scarves and even wear it inside my coat in the wintertime. I didn't know that was unusual.

Not unusual with outerwear I guess, coats and scarves for warmth. I was thinking about accessories. I bought a scarf yesterday, it was the first one I've seen that was one continual piece with the ends sewn together. I put it on in the store mirror and swept my hair out from underneath it, played with different styles of wearing it...so it would have looked weird to have it around the outside of my hair you know?

CDS22
09-11-2011, 10:33 PM
Not unusual with outerwear I guess, coats and scarves for warmth. I was thinking about accessories. I bought a scarf yesterday, it was the first one I've seen that was one continual piece with the ends sewn together. I put it on in the store mirror and swept my hair out from underneath it, played with different styles of wearing it...so it would have looked weird to have it around the outside of my hair you know?

I know what you mean. In the case of RZ, unfortunately, she wasn't wearing her scarf for warmth or an accessory, so it's anyone's guess why it happened the way that it did.

HowLoveCanBe
09-11-2011, 10:48 PM
I believe it was suicide. It was done in a dramatic way because she felt completely trapped emotionally. I think the best way to try and determine what happened is to look for overall patterns. The one overriding pattern I see is Rebecca's isolation after Max's accident. All the kids are whisked away, dog boarded up, she's not allowed to visit Max, there's a possibility that she's staying in the guest house, I think Adam was instructed to watch over her, and she jumps from the guest room. We know that JS is a very controlling person. We know that DS did not trust Rebecca. After the tragedy of Max's fall I specualte she was blamed and cast away by both DS and JS. She may have kept this to herself adding to her isolation. This is why her dying words were she saved him - she did not allow Max to die at the scene. It wasn't her decision to take him off life-support and she would have been against that. I speculate that JS and DS made the call to take Max off life-support and that the decision wasn't made or transmitted for the first time at 12:50AM. We will never know the content of that VM and that makes everything that happened afterward impossible to understand on it's own.

'Can he save her' was a message to Max's soul. We know she believed that taking her own life was against God's will and she was asking Max for salvation. We don't know exactly why she bound herself the way she did but it could have a very intimate nature - something that will never be made public - and that will always seem confusing to the public. This is the most challenging aspect of this case if it was suicide there will be certain information that will not be made public. It seems that most people that believe it was a murder have to rely on the possibility of additional evidence that's not present. I think it would help if those that really believe it was murder organize their arguments in order of priority. What is the number 1, 2, 3 etc... fact that makes you think it's murder? It would be interesting to see which issues rise to the top - which ones are shared by everyone - which ones are outliers. My hunch is that there will be little convergence. You can look at any one aspect of this case and it will seem suspicious - but if you try to build an actual case there's no consistent path. Again it's always about patterns. Again if this is indeed a suicide there may be patterns about Rebecca privy to JS and others that will never come out.

alexanderdavis
09-12-2011, 12:13 AM
I believe it was suicide. It was done in a dramatic way because she felt completely trapped emotionally. I think the best way to try and determine what happened is to look for overall patterns. The one overriding pattern I see is Rebecca's isolation after Max's accident. All the kids are whisked away, dog boarded up, she's not allowed to visit Max, there's a possibility that she's staying in the guest house, I think Adam was instructed to watch over her, and she jumps from the guest room. We know that JS is a very controlling person. We know that DS did not trust Rebecca. After the tragedy of Max's fall I specualte she was blamed and cast away by both DS and JS. She may have kept this to herself adding to her isolation. This is why her dying words were she saved him - she did not allow Max to die at the scene. It wasn't her decision to take him off life-support and she would have been against that. I speculate that JS and DS made the call to take Max off life-support and that the decision wasn't made or transmitted for the first time at 12:50AM. We will never know the content of that VM and that makes everything that happened afterward impossible to understand on it's own.

'Can he save her' was a message to Max's soul. We know she believed that taking her own life was against God's will and she was asking Max for salvation. We don't know exactly why she bound herself the way she did but it could have a very intimate nature - something that will never be made public - and that will always seem confusing to the public. This is the most challenging aspect of this case if it was suicide there will be certain information that will not be made public. It seems that most people that believe it was a murder have to rely on the possibility of additional evidence that's not present. I think it would help if those that really believe it was murder organize their arguments in order of priority. What is the number 1, 2, 3 etc... fact that makes you think it's murder? It would be interesting to see which issues rise to the top - which ones are shared by everyone - which ones are outliers. My hunch is that there will be little convergence. You can look at any one aspect of this case and it will seem suspicious - but if you try to build an actual case there's no consistent path. Again it's always about patterns. Again if this is indeed a suicide there may be patterns about Rebecca privy to JS and others that will never come out.

Wouldn't the same patterns that would make everything more understandable be privy to Rebecca's family? Leaving it up to them to release it.
Is it normal that JS would hold the cards when he is only a boyfriend?

justice be served
09-12-2011, 12:25 AM
I believe it was suicide. It was done in a dramatic way because she felt completely trapped emotionally. I think the best way to try and determine what happened is to look for overall patterns. The one overriding pattern I see is Rebecca's isolation after Max's accident. All the kids are whisked away, dog boarded up, she's not allowed to visit Max, there's a possibility that she's staying in the guest house, I think Adam was instructed to watch over her, and she jumps from the guest room. We know that JS is a very controlling person. We know that DS did not trust Rebecca. After the tragedy of Max's fall I specualte she was blamed and cast away by both DS and JS. She may have kept this to herself adding to her isolation. This is why her dying words were she saved him - she did not allow Max to die at the scene. It wasn't her decision to take him off life-support and she would have been against that. I speculate that JS and DS made the call to take Max off life-support and that the decision wasn't made or transmitted for the first time at 12:50AM. We will never know the content of that VM and that makes everything that happened afterward impossible to understand on it's own.

'Can he save her' was a message to Max's soul. We know she believed that taking her own life was against God's will and she was asking Max for salvation. We don't know exactly why she bound herself the way she did but it could have a very intimate nature - something that will never be made public - and that will always seem confusing to the public. This is the most challenging aspect of this case if it was suicide there will be certain information that will not be made public. It seems that most people that believe it was a murder have to rely on the possibility of additional evidence that's not present. I think it would help if those that really believe it was murder organize their arguments in order of priority. What is the number 1, 2, 3 etc... fact that makes you think it's murder? It would be interesting to see which issues rise to the top - which ones are shared by everyone - which ones are outliers. My hunch is that there will be little convergence. You can look at any one aspect of this case and it will seem suspicious - but if you try to build an actual case there's no consistent path. Again it's always about patterns. Again if this is indeed a suicide there may be patterns about Rebecca privy to JS and others that will never come out.

Thank you, How Love Can Be. I have gotten the sense that your postings are very genuine and from the heart. I, for one, have trouble organizing your feelings and will be so bold to ask some questions:

1. Why do you think Adam was "watching over her"?

2. Why do you think Rebecca was isolating herself?

3. Do you think she tried hard to save Max after his accident?

4. Why do you think that the decision to take Max off life support at 12:50 was not the first time it was made?

5. Why do you think her bindings were of such an intimate nature and that no one will ever understand it?

6. And, finally, what are your issues in order of 1,2 3 that rise to the top?

I am very interested in your take on things.

Carpe Pacem
09-12-2011, 01:16 AM
"oceanblueeyes;7115259]So you think she just walked out there calmly and jumped? She could still have dropped her body to the bottom of the balcony floor in resistance and kicked at the perp even with her feet bound."


She could, Ocean, but only if she were alive at the time.

HowLoveCanBe
09-12-2011, 02:53 AM
Wouldn't the same patterns that would make everything more understandable be privy to Rebecca's family? Leaving it up to them to release it.
Is it normal that JS would hold the cards when he is only a boyfriend?


What I'm suggesting is that over the last two years Rebecca may have shared things with JS that she did not share with her family. Certainly there would have been aspects of their relationship only shared between them. What I'm saying is if JS has information that would lend to the suicide scenario - he is probably not going to share that publicly. He may share it with Rebecca's family if it doesn't make him look bad - but maybe not under the current circumstances. What's of more immediate concern is what was the nature of JS's and Rebecca's relationship between Max's death and her death? Maybe he knows that his behavior, actions, and words contributed to a break-down in their relationship. At the very least I can imagine that it would have been difficult for him to stand-up to Dina to defend Rebecca. Was there an altercation or confrontation between Dina and Rebecca at the hospital? How did JS react? I also find it hard to believe that she would miss a call given the circumstances and then delete the message. It's more likely there were multiple calls leading to some emotional fracture. She prob hung up on him and he called back to leave the final message - which she deleted. Obviously this is all speculation. I just think that JS would want to hide any abuse he may have directed towards Rebecca leading up to her suicide. He may have been honest with LE but wanted to shield this from her family and the public at large.

HowLoveCanBe
09-12-2011, 03:52 AM
Thank you, How Love Can Be. I have gotten the sense that your postings are very genuine and from the heart. I, for one, have trouble organizing your feelings and will be so bold to ask some questions:

1. Why do you think Adam was "watching over her"?

2. Why do you think Rebecca was isolating herself?

3. Do you think she tried hard to save Max after his accident?

4. Why do you think that the decision to take Max off life support at 12:50 was not the first time it was made?

5. Why do you think her bindings were of such an intimate nature and that no one will ever understand it?

6. And, finally, what are your issues in order of 1,2 3 that rise to the top?

I am very interested in your take on things.

1. If Adam were there just for Max he would be at hospital and Ronald McDonald House. It looks like Rebecca may have been sleeping in the guest house. It's possible she was asked to leave the main house.

2. I think Rebecca was being isolated. She may have not been able to turn to her family and friends which made her feel more isolated. If she was being blamed for Max's death and JS was kicking her to the curb - I can see how she might not be able to accept that right away and share it with her loved ones.

3. Yes of course I think she tried to save him. He did not die at the scene. This why she wrote 'she saved him'

4. I can't accept that she got a VM call at 12:50 that Informed her of Max's death and didn't call back. I can't believe that JS and DS would decide to take Max off life-support at around 12:50AM. It's more likely that the VM was the last in a series of escalating phone conversations. She hung up on JS - he called back left VM - and she deleted it.

5. Bottom line I think she was heart broken. She loved Max and JS and felt that she had lost them both. I think she may have wanted to express her love for JS in some manner. Why not in the form of undress? I think the shirt around her neck was JS's and she often slept in it. I think she was terrified and in tears - and put it in her mouth so she could stop crying and bit down hard for courage.

6. If I were to believe it was murder I would focus first focus on Adam - second focus on JS and DS - third look for some evidence of an intruder. If all three options checked out - I would say dramatic suicide.

ziggy
09-12-2011, 05:17 AM
Seems to me it could be someone who just hated JS...knew he would be at the hospital; took an opportunity to kill his girlfriend...She saved him - maybe this person was not privy to the information that Max was not really saved. Hope they checked out all persons who may have had a vendetta against JS. If you really hated a man and wanted to do him in, humiliating his girlfriend in such a scene would do it.

oceanblueeyes
09-12-2011, 08:35 AM
HowLoveCanBe makes some interesting points.

I just don't see the controlling behavior that Jonah Shacknai was supposed to have concerning Rebecca.

In fact I believe he did plan to marry her. They had gone together for two years. It wasnt like she was a part time lover. She lived with him both in CA and in AZ. She had become a part of his family unit.

If I consider what has been said I don't think Jonah was shunning Rebecca. She was to have had lunch/dinner with him and his brother and she also told her family she had been bringing Jonah's clothes to him to change into so he would not have to leave Max' side except maybe to catch a short nap over at the Ronald McDonald house near by. I believe Jonah also was communicating with her about Adam flying in and when she could pick him up at the ariport. I wouldnt be the least surprise if the cell phone records show quite a bit of communication between the two from the time Max was in the hospital until the voice mail was left.

I think he communicated with her every time he got the chance to do so. Although at that time his first priority would be Max.

If she already was having anxiety about Max' condition but placed herself in denial convincing herself he would improve then the 12:50 am call would be a profound awakening.

I don't believe the Shacknai's wanted to believe his condition wouldn't improve. No way when they were first told did they say 'ok pull the plug..its over' So of course they did not make a rush decision to unhook their son from life support. The family has to get 'there' mentally in their minds in order to accept death is going to be the only result. I do believe the doctors staff told them again the night/early morning and he then in turn called Rebecca.. most likely when he had a chance when things were quiet.

Some seem to think he was angry with Rebecca but imo he was distraught and if he was crying or choked up with emotion when he made the call to Rebecca it would affect her even more profoundly, imo. In the years she had known him she may have never seen him that vulnerable and full of emotional pain.

I did read that Rebecca did come to see Max in the hospital but due to the hospital only allowing two in at a time she did not get to see Max as much as she wanted. We can easily speculate Dina would NOT give up her visiting time to Rebecca but I do think Jonah did so that she could see Max.

So imo Rebecca killed herself because the pain she felt in her heart was just too heavy to carry.

IMO

IWannaKnow
09-12-2011, 11:32 AM
Two persons, of any size, could easily grasp Rebecca (one on either side) and toss her over that balcony railing. A good sized man could do it too. One accustomed to manhandling large items. We recycled some metal recently....the guy lifted the 100# tubs by himself with little effort.

scorekeeper
09-12-2011, 01:18 PM
Ocean,

Do you have a link for only 2 people being allowed in to see MS at a time? I know that used to SOP, but due to the situation, sometimes they allow the whole family to be in the room and then ask others to leave when the Doctor(s) come in to talk with parents (my past experience).

TIA

score

jjenny
09-12-2011, 01:21 PM
Ocean,

Do you have a link for only 2 people being allowed in to see MS at a time? I know that used to SOP, but due to the situation, sometimes they allow the whole family to be in the room and then ask others to leave when the Doctor(s) come in to talk with parents (my past experience).

TIA

score

I believe that was a statement from LE to radar online to explain why RN supposedly didn't get to see Max as much as she would have wanted. Frankly I don't buy it. I am not sure if she ever got to see Max in the hospital.

oceanblueeyes
09-12-2011, 01:45 PM
Ocean,

Do you have a link for only 2 people being allowed in to see MS at a time? I know that used to SOP, but due to the situation, sometimes they allow the whole family to be in the room and then ask others to leave when the Doctor(s) come in to talk with parents (my past experience).

TIA

score

Oh goodness Score. LOL! I read it on line.

I just assumed (I know, I know :floorlaugh:) that everyone here had already read it.

I will try to find it again though.

IMO

Evan's Mom
09-12-2011, 02:28 PM
Ocean,

Do you have a link for only 2 people being allowed in to see MS at a time? I know that used to SOP, but due to the situation, sometimes they allow the whole family to be in the room and then ask others to leave when the Doctor(s) come in to talk with parents (my past experience).

TIA

score

I'm not sure how different CA would be from GA as far as ICU practices go, but my Dad had open heart surgery a couple of months ago and was in ICU.
As soon as he came out of surgery, we were all(my sisters and stepmother) allowed to see him at one time for five minutes. Once we made sure he was okay after the surgery, everyone had to leave and from then on, it was only two at time.

jjenny
09-12-2011, 02:40 PM
I'm not sure how different CA would be from GA as far as ICU practices go, but my Dad had open heart surgery a couple of months ago and was in ICU.
As soon as he came out of surgery, we were all(my sisters and stepmother) allowed to see him at one time for five minutes. Once we made sure he was okay after the surgery, everyone had to leave and from then on, it was only two at time.

I don't think it would matter in RN's case how many people at a time were allowed to see the child.

SunnieRN
09-12-2011, 02:43 PM
If she went over the balcony railing by another, I believe she was already dead it this point, from strangulation.


My opinion differs from your opinion. I believe she was helped out there.


I think the hanging was staged as a suicide because she was actually strangled.


"oceanblueeyes;7115259]So you think she just walked out there calmly and jumped? She could still have dropped her body to the bottom of the balcony floor in resistance and kicked at the perp even with her feet bound."


She could, Ocean, but only if she were alive at the time.

I strongly agree with each of these posts. Only scenarios that make sense.

SunnieRN
09-12-2011, 02:45 PM
I don't think it would matter in RN's case how many people at a time were allowed to see the child.

Exactly!!

ICU visitation rules vary hospital to hospital and sometimes within a hospital. It depends on many variables, safety issues and the condition of the patient.

SophieRose
09-12-2011, 02:56 PM
I'm not sure how different CA would be from GA as far as ICU practices go, but my Dad had open heart surgery a couple of months ago and was in ICU.
As soon as he came out of surgery, we were all(my sisters and stepmother) allowed to see him at one time for five minutes. Once we made sure he was okay after the surgery, everyone had to leave and from then on, it was only two at time.
I live in California. A few years ago my mother had surgery and the waiting room was next to ICU. There was also an area outside the elevators with lots of chairs, not a room, where a large group of people of various ages gathered. I talked to a couple who said there uncle (single, never married, in his 50s) was in a diabetic coma and not expected to live and the family had come from all over to say their goodbyes. There must have been at least 20-30 people at that time and he said there were more to come. He said that only 2 at a time could see the uncle.

oceanblueeyes
09-12-2011, 03:08 PM
I live in California. A few years ago my mother had surgery and the waiting room was next to ICU. There was also an area outside the elevators with lots of chairs, not a room, where a large group of people of various ages gathered. I talked to a couple who said there uncle (single, never married, in his 50s) was in a diabetic coma and not expected to live and the family had come from all over to say their goodbyes. There must have been at least 20-30 people at that time and he said there were more to come. He said that only 2 at a time could see the uncle.

It is the same way in my state. While there is a family/friends waiting room close to ICU only 2 can go in at one time to see the patient and it is only for 15 minites about every 2 hours.

IMO

sdcali
09-12-2011, 03:21 PM
Two persons, of any size, could easily grasp Rebecca (one on either side) and toss her over that balcony railing. A good sized man could do it too. One accustomed to manhandling large items. We recycled some metal recently....the guy lifted the 100# tubs by himself with little effort.

I agree. I also think it would be possible for someone to lift her body and plant her footprints on the balcony edge (closest to the bedroom and then lift her and lean her against the railing and hoist her with a piece of rope from inside the bedroom, leaving the partial toeprints. They are not right next to the railing edge, but back away, which seems to be an odd placement to me.

I have said this before but I think it bears repeating. I am unclear as to why she would not shuffle her bound feet from the first set of footprints to the edge of the balcony railing? Why hop?

CDS22
09-12-2011, 03:22 PM
It is the same way in my state. While there is a family/friends waiting room close to ICU only 2 can go in at one time to see the patient and it is only for 15 minites about every 2 hours.

IMO

Same here. The only time I have seen that waived is when someone is dying. Then they let everyone in at once to say good-bye. But that's only at my end of the world. Not sure if this is applicable anywhere else.

SunnieRN
09-12-2011, 03:29 PM
There are often extenuating experiences. Family flies in from out of state, they will sometimes let in more family members for a short visit in that case.''My Dad had a quintuple bypass several years ago. As soon as he was in his room, they allowed me to go in. After my Mom and brother arrived, they allowed all three of us to be with him.

When I worked in ICU, we would look at each situation individually. The most important aspect, was not to let visitors stay too long, as it is very tiring for the patient to feel they have to visit. When a patient was dying, we would always attempt to be as flexible as possible.

MyBelle
09-12-2011, 05:48 PM
It is the same way in my state. While there is a family/friends waiting room close to ICU only 2 can go in at one time to see the patient and it is only for 15 minites about every 2 hours.

IMO

I think it has everything to do with the various staff needing full access to the patient and the various machines such as ventilator and IV equip that trauma usually entails. Kinda hard to do that when there is a crowd in the room. All ICUs I've ever seen have had large windows so that nurses could view the patient from the nurses' station and that visitors could look through.

JMO

Bonepile
09-12-2011, 05:55 PM
I agree. I also think it would be possible for someone to lift her body and plant her footprints on the balcony edge (closest to the bedroom and then lift her and lean her against the railing and hoist her with a piece of rope from inside the bedroom, leaving the partial toeprints. They are not right next to the railing edge, but back away, which seems to be an odd placement to me.

Did someone or a couple of someones plant her footprints and then lift her and throw her feet first over the balcony railing her head hitting the outer side of that railing on the way down or in the recoil back toward the balcony thereby causing the lacerations on her head? I do not think she hopped, I do not think she got herself by herself over that railing.

Did the police in their Briefing admit that the boot print in the balcony dirt was one of their officers? If they did not this opens up many other possibilities. Thanks in advance for answering.

deanna82437
09-12-2011, 06:24 PM
Did someone or a couple of someones plant her footprints and then lift her and throw her feet first over the balcony railing her head hitting the outer side of that railing on the way down or in the recoil back toward the balcony thereby causing the lacerations on her head? I do not think she hopped, I do not think she got herself by herself over that railing.

Did the police in their Briefing admit that the boot print in the balcony dirt was one of their officers? If they did not this opens up many other possibilities. Thanks in advance for answering.

BBM
Answered in other thread, but I believe they did claim that footprint as belonging to one of their officers, along with much else. Hinky IMO

oceanblueeyes
09-12-2011, 07:09 PM
BBM
Answered in other thread, but I believe they did claim that footprint as belonging to one of their officers, along with much else. Hinky IMO

Yes, they did and they said they had collected those boots from the officer who wore them.

IMO

Rhyme & Reason
09-12-2011, 08:10 PM
BBM
Answered in other thread, but I believe they did claim that footprint as belonging to one of their officers, along with much else. Hinky IMO

LOL I just answered in the other thread too. They confirmed it was one of their officer's boot prints and they also said they recovered the boot. I believe it was in the sheriff dept ppt.

coastal
09-12-2011, 11:10 PM
FWIW, my ex and I spent three long days and two even longer nights with our daughter on the Neurology floor at Children's Hospital, San Diego. I remember well how impressed we were with that fine organization.

Kate (who was having a run of seizures we couldn't get control of) was allowed to have both of us stay with her, but we understood and agreed that this privilege was dependent on her medical condition, as determined by the medical staff, and not necessarily her "right", or ours. We did have to wear hospital-issued ID bracelets, and someone on the floor had to "buzz us in" to the locked neurology wing, and we signed in and out (with times) on a form kept at the nurses station.

The nurses were wonderful with Kate, as was her doctor, who spoke directly to her instead of speaking to us about her. It couldn't have been easy, because Kate also has autism, and she had very limited language skills then (less than 100 words). This respectful, inclusive treatment made us all feel less helpless and more capable of doing whatever came next, and I remain as grateful for that kind lesson as for the excellent medical care Kate received there.

Anyway. It's Rady Children's Hospital now, and everything may have changed when the name did, but I hope not.

I voted "not a suicide", but I reserve the right to change my mind.

scorekeeper
09-12-2011, 11:14 PM
(((Coastal))),

O/T......I hope Kate is doing well now. Thanks for sharing.

score

coastal
09-12-2011, 11:50 PM
(((Coastal))),

O/T......I hope Kate is doing well now. Thanks for sharing.

score
Thank you, scorekeeper! Kate is doing very well indeed! She was five when she was at Children's, and (she should have mentioned) that was thirteen years ago! Kate still has difficult-to-control, idiopathic (we don't know why they happen) and unpredictable seizures, but she has far fewer of them than she used to, and finally there are medicines available that (sort of mostly) prevent seizures that don't slow her brain down so much as the older drugs did. She's happy and active and :eek: she's 18!

:tyou:

SunnieRN
09-13-2011, 07:47 PM
I asked on another thread, but does anyone know if the freeways in San Diego have cameras on them. What about the bridge going to and from Coronado? TIA!!

coastal
09-13-2011, 09:25 PM
I asked on another thread, but does anyone know if the freeways in San Diego have cameras on them. What about the bridge going to and from Coronado? TIA!!
CalTrans website shows live traffic from these cameras in San Diego:

(http://www.caltrux.org/CHPCaltrans.asp)

Multiple cameras along highway 5
Multiple cameras along highway 8
Multiple cameras along highway 15
Multiple cameras along highway 805

Is this what you are looking for, SunnieRN?

SunnieRN
09-13-2011, 09:34 PM
Thank you very much Coastal!!

Does anyone know who the lady at the end of this video is? It was taken at JS PV, AZ home.


New details emerging in San Diego mansion death - YouTube

SunnieRN
09-13-2011, 09:54 PM
Look at this article about Tuite and what he thinks about Rebecca's case. Seems finny, coming from a criminal, but interesting none the less.


http://www.sandiegoreader.com/weblogs/almost-factual-news/2011/sep/13/if-at-first/

SunnieRN
09-13-2011, 10:17 PM
Coastal, I see that you updated your post, so double thanks!! :great:

The reason I asked, was to see if there are any cameras that may have recorded the traffic the night that Rebecca died. Iam wondering about traffic between midnight and three am in particular.

Thanks again!!

sdcali
09-13-2011, 11:37 PM
I asked on another thread, but does anyone know if the freeways in San Diego have cameras on them. What about the bridge going to and from Coronado? TIA!!

You can get to Coronado via the bridge , via Imperial Beach over the Strand and via the Coronado Ferry (on foot or with a bicycle) until 9pm week nights. You can also get there from San Diego, via a privately owned boat.

SunnieRN
09-13-2011, 11:41 PM
You can get to Coronado via the bridge , via Imperial Beach over the Strand and via the Coronado Ferry (on foot or with a bicycle) until 9pm week nights. You can also get there from San Diego, via a privately owned boat.

Thank you SD!! I am hoping that the bridge records traffic on the bridge. I am afraid that it would be too late to find something from 2 months ago however. Thank you again for the information!!

Rhyme & Reason
09-14-2011, 02:16 AM
Thank you SD!! I am hoping that the bridge records traffic on the bridge. I am afraid that it would be too late to find something from 2 months ago however. Thank you again for the information!!

I've googled this and come up with nothing but some cameras set up on the bridge in the 1980's for TV stations to watch traffic LOL. That's all I've found.

SunnieRN
09-14-2011, 02:26 AM
I figured this was a long shot at best. Thank you so much!

coastal
09-14-2011, 10:37 AM
Coastal, I see that you updated your post, so double thanks!! :great:

The reason I asked, was to see if there are any cameras that may have recorded the traffic the night that Rebecca died. Iam wondering about traffic between midnight and three am in particular.

Thanks again!!
I found the following on a Caltrans FAQ; it sounds like their traffic cameras are like webcams, which stream live images but don't retain data. Perhaps CHP has a different system, but I really can't think of any event I've seen footage of, that wasn't shot by a TV helicopter...I'm still looking, SunnieRN, because now I'm curious. Maybe Homeland Security has something...

http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist2/cctv/faqs.htm#heading

What does Caltrans use the CCTV's for?

The primary uses for the cameras are:
(1) To provide motorists visual verification of weather and traffic conditions to make informed travel decisions.
(2) To provide Caltrans visual information to improve response to traffic and/or weather related incidences on the highways.

Why aren't the CCTV's updated more often or broadcast live video?

Most of the district CCTV sites are in very remote locations with only limited communications available. Broadcast live video requires a fairly high bandwidth communications infrastructure that is "always connected" to the site. This kind of infrastructure either is not available or is prohibitively expensive at most of our camera locations. CCTV still images could be updated more frequently than once an hour, but that would result in greater communication costs. As with any responsible organization, Caltrans' strives to provide the best service possible with its limited resources.

coastal
09-14-2011, 11:03 AM
OT: Fascinating factoids for Wednesday:

Surveillance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Surveillance_quevaal.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/98/Surveillance_quevaal.jpg/250px-Surveillance_quevaal.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/9/98/Surveillance_quevaal.jpg/250px-Surveillance_quevaal.jpg

>>>snip

...However, many civil rights and privacy groups such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation and ACLU have expressed concern that by allowing continual increases in government surveillance of citizens that we will end up in a mass surveillance society, with extremely limited, or non-existent political and/or personal freedoms....

and

...The use of surveillance cameras by governments and businesses has dramatically increased over the last 10 years. In the U.K., for example, there are about 4.2 million surveillance cameras—1 camera for every 14 people...

and

...In the United States, the Department of Homeland Security gives billions of dollars per year in Homeland Security grants for local, state, and federal agencies to install modern video surveillance equipment...

and

...As part of China's Golden Shield Project, several U.S. corporations such as IBM, General Electric, and Honeywell have been working closely with the Chinese government to install millions of surveillance cameras throughout China, along with advanced video analytics and facial recognition software, which will identify and track individuals everywhere they go. They will be connected to a centralized database and monitoring station, which will, upon completion of the project, contain a picture of the face of every person in China: over 1.3 billion people...

<<<

I doubt there is any data such as you are hoping to find, SunnieRN. Yet.

SunnieRN
09-14-2011, 11:29 AM
I found this section interesting!!


AT&T developed a programming language called "Hancock" which is able to sift through enormous databases of phone call and Internet traffic records, such as the NSA call database and extract "communities of interest" -- groups of people who call each other regularly, or groups that regularly visit certain sites on the Internet. AT&T originally built the system to develop "marketing leads",[47] but the FBI has regularly requested such information from phone companies such as AT&T without a warrant,[47] and after using the data stores all information received in its own databases, regardless of whether or not the information was ever useful in an investigation.[48]
Some people believe that the use of social networking sites is a form of "participatory surveillance", where users of these sites are essentially performing surveillance on themselves, putting detailed personal information on public websites where it can be viewed by corporations and governments.[39] About 20% of employers have reported using social networking sites to collect personal data on prospective or current employees.[49]


I often think that if I was suspected in a crime, I would have a lot of 'unusual' searches on my computer, for things related to Websleuths. A bit scary when you read the apove passage!!

Thank you so much Coastal!! I can't thank you enough for all your help!!:great:

coastal
09-14-2011, 11:47 AM
Aww, you're welcome! I love to get lost surfing...and I owe you at least a few more, for all your help with the medical details!

:seeya:

curiousjo
09-14-2011, 06:49 PM
LE said that JS /DS both had an alibi. The only way they would know this was to check hospital cameras, Ronald McDonald House room key documentation/camera(if exist), interview medical staff, cell phone pings (calls/text messages), personal computer use, check highway/bridge cameras. Even so, one can travel from San Diego to Coronado Island by boat.


Only JS knows what happened between him and RN that fatal night. And he is the only one who may know what the message means.....Not sure if LE can see text messages sent, if someone erased them. However, they should be able to track cell calls/pings. If there was a fight between a couple, there is often a flurry of calls, texts. I doubt that a call regarding MS taking turn for worse would cause RN to commit suicide. She already knew things were bad immediately following the fall. However, a series of nasty phone calls from JS, DS or both could be upsetting. And we all know that happened since the initial drug test for Benzos returned positive leading one to suspect RN had sedated MS, (possibly suffocated him), then tossed him over balcony. To this day, it sounds like DS still suspects RN of a crime, despite confirmation of repeat Benzo test returning negative.

Just read that article posted regarding RN sister interview. She states that RN said this was an accident and did not feel guilty. So, why suicide? ... She admits RN having problems with JS kids, and that she was thinking about taking a break from relationship. RN sister did not think they were close to getting engaged, so why was that leaked by JS's PR team? And if RN was thinking about leaving, then why suicide?

Lots of questions - still on the fence. I recall LE stating that it could be 5 different scenerios, but he never laid them out. Natural event obviously ruled out. Could be suicide vs anyone with last name starting with S vs hired hit vs stranger/aquaintance due to opportunity. Did RN break it off that night, and JS didn't want anyone else to have her -so this was about something else rather than MS? Or is this regarding anger over MS, thinking false positive Benzo test true? ... or did RN just call it quits. IF the report of loud music at 1 am is true, and it lasted for more than a couple minutes--- then AS is suspect, as any visitor would realize something wrong and check it out. What about dog man, gym members, anyone invited to cancelled party or neighbors who knew accident happened? In the end the note is very telling, and the only one who would know what that means the author and possibly JS....If not written by RN or someone with S name, then they did not know MS injury was fatal and RN not alone in mansion, as AS sleeping next to crime scene.Remember that famous case years ago, where surgeon blamed for killing wife. DNA later proved it was the hired window cleaner.......

Just side note, can the balcony door be closed without moving rope? I ask since photos appear to show door closed at one point during daytime hours, yet there is a rope photo taken at night with door open. Also, why did she (or whom ever involved) use candle, yet night photo of rope shows outdoor lights on..... did LE add light bulbs or outdoor lights vs auto turn on at night vs resident turns on outdoor light switch. Finally, anyone could be setting up crime scene in back bedroom while RN out to dinner.....

tvscum
09-15-2011, 03:04 AM
A freeze frame (http://kfmb.images.worldnow.com/images/15466715_BG2.jpg) of the afternoon helicopter video clearly showed the rope hanging from the balcony in the exact same position as the evidence photo taken earlier in the day.

"The rope was hanging over the balcony from the moment (officers) arrived on scene until they seized it later in the evening as evidence," said Lt. Nesbit.

Some online observers have questioned the evidence photos themselves.

Three photos posted on the Sheriff's web site show the French doors of the mansion's balcony in three different positions.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15466715/q...-hanging-death (http://www.cbs8.com/story/15466715/questions-linger-in-coronado-mansion-hanging-death)

coastal
09-15-2011, 12:47 PM
Thanks, tvscum! That's a pretty darn good article!

We Websleuths know we've raised some valid questions, and it is very satisfying to see those questions addressed by Lt. Nesbit publicly. I'm not sure I'm ready to accept his easy answers just yet, but the fact that he has heard us, and responded, makes me hopeful that all the "lingering questions" we have about the deaths of Max and Rebecca will eventually be resolved.

Did you write that article, tvscum? http://www.cosgan.de/images/midi/liebe/a095.gif If so, good job!

IWannaKnow
09-15-2011, 01:06 PM
Thank you very much Coastal!!

Does anyone know who the lady at the end of this video is? It was taken at JS PV, AZ home.


New details emerging in San Diego mansion death - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4IOuN0pqCA&feature=related)

Awesome find Sunnie! Who was that woman??? Looked an awful lot like DS to me, but who knows. Sure wasn't dressed like the maid and if that is what the help drives in AZ......I'm packin' now!

SophieRose
09-15-2011, 04:34 PM
Awesome find Sunnie! Who was that woman??? Looked an awful lot like DS to me, but who knows. Sure wasn't dressed like the maid and if that is what the help drives in AZ......I'm packin' now!
DS would have been with MS since he was still alive when that video was taken.

jjenny
09-15-2011, 05:03 PM
DS would have been with MS since he was still alive when that video was taken.

Doesn't look like DS to me anyway. But certainly doesn't look like a maid.

SophieRose
09-15-2011, 07:24 PM
Doesn't look like DS to me anyway. But certainly doesn't look like a maid.
Don't think it's a maid. Look at the car.

CuriousHousewife
09-15-2011, 08:17 PM
They have over the years used the video to monitor for jumpers, too.

IWannaKnow
09-15-2011, 09:37 PM
DS would have been with MS since he was still alive when that video was taken.

You are right, thanks for pointing that out. That was, in fact, the day after Rebecca was found dead. So, not DS and not a maid I think we agree, but clearly a person who has access to JS's house.

curiousjo
09-15-2011, 10:03 PM
Maybe RN found out JS dating someone else, and that precipitated the suicide. He seems to have someone set up on the side, before he ends a relationship.

tvscum
09-16-2011, 02:52 AM
I had seen a reference to Camp Diggity Dogs owner TG and a woman in the driveway in an earlier post, but can’t seem to find it now. Can somebody refresh my memory? Thanks!

Rhyme & Reason
09-16-2011, 03:10 AM
I had seen a reference to Camp Diggity Dogs owner TG and a woman in the driveway in an earlier post, but can’t seem to find it now. Can somebody refresh my memory? Thanks!

I can't recall where the posts are regarding this but here is a link to the video they were discussing:

New details emerging in San Diego mansion death - YouTube


ETA: Page 3 post #74 of this thread. SunnieRN first posted this video & started the discussion. Hope that helps!

deanna82437
09-16-2011, 11:26 AM
I had seen a reference to Camp Diggity Dogs owner TG and a woman in the driveway in an earlier post, but can’t seem to find it now. Can somebody refresh my memory? Thanks!

I believe that reference was to a woman in the Coronado driveway, correct? I believe the video shows a woman at his AZ home. Anyone know for sure?

deanna82437
09-16-2011, 11:29 AM
Watched the video again and reporter states the woman was at his Paradise Valley, AZ home. Then goes on to talk about the dog kennel person.

IWannaKnow
09-16-2011, 11:58 AM
I had seen a reference to Camp Diggity Dogs owner TG and a woman in the driveway in an earlier post, but can’t seem to find it now. Can somebody refresh my memory? Thanks!

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1107/19/ijvm.01.html
ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
Mansion Mystery: 2 Deaths in 2 Days
Aired July 19, 2011 - 19:00:00 ET



VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, you saw -- when you went up to the mansion, right...

GREENBERG: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... to help Rebecca, you saw something, right?

GREENBERG: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And OK. This -- did you find whatever you saw significant?

GREENBERG: What are you speaking of exactly?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You said you saw another woman?

GREENBERG: When I left. When I was leaving the house...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK.

GREENBERG: ... with the dog.

SophieRose
09-16-2011, 02:18 PM
Coastal, I see that you updated your post, so double thanks!! :great:

The reason I asked, was to see if there are any cameras that may have recorded the traffic the night that Rebecca died. Iam wondering about traffic between midnight and three am in particular.

Thanks again!!
So you don't believe LE thoroughly checked out the whereabouts of the S's?

4Jacy
09-16-2011, 02:23 PM
Suicide.

If I take Rebecca's sister at her word about Rebecca and Max having a close special relationship like a bio mom and child then it convinces me no matter how Rebecca tried to pretend everything was ok ...........she was not. It also explains why Rebecca referred to Max as her child. Imo that is the way she saw Max. I have often wondered since Rebecca was married for a long time if she could have children of her own. If not, she could put all of her motherly love into the youngest child of the man she loved.

Since I am fortunate to have such special relationships with my husband's children.. now our children........I know how deep that love can be.

The loss of a loved one can trigger suicidal thoughts and she knew by then there was no hope of Max surviving.

I think she was already depressed about it and then the dreaded call came in and the outcome was just too much to take. She knew she had lost Max and her life with Jonah would never be quite the same. Her life immediately changed when Max fell......it changed for the worse when the call came in.

I really think at first she was in denial. That is why she went shopping with her sister before taking her to the airport. In the back of her mind she tried to convince herself that Max was going to survive.

But as she listened to the 12:50 am message she knew that was not going to happen no matter how much she, Jonah and Dina wanted it to.

Combine those traumatic circumstances with LE finding no one else's fingerprints or DNA on any of the items used nor any struggle on the balcony and no footprints but Rebecca's shows me there was no one there with Rebecca at the time she decided to do this.

IMO

BBM

Ocean, I have kept up with threads as I can. Had to have demolition crew take down 1/2 my house because of Irene. I am still very interested in this case, but I hadn't heard Rebecca and her sister went shopping. Please tell me where they went, what time and what they bought, if you know.

Also, I am glad you have such a good relationship with your husband's (and now your) children. It doesn't always work out that way, and you must have put a lot of effort and love into it. :clap::clap::clap:

oceanblueeyes
09-16-2011, 02:46 PM
BBM

Ocean, I have kept up with threads as I can. Had to have demolition crew take down 1/2 my house because of Irene. I am still very interested in this case, but I hadn't heard Rebecca and her sister went shopping. Please tell me where they went, what time and what they bought, if you know.

Also, I am glad you have such a good relationship with your husband's (and now your) children. It doesn't always work out that way, and you must have put a lot of effort and love into it. :clap::clap::clap:

Hi there Jacy. I sure hope you get your home built back soon.

I read that on the day Rebecca took her sister to the airport they went shopping. Sorry I don't remember where I read it after this long.

Thank you.

It was the most effortless thing we have ever had to do. We both just went into it with open arms and never ever excluded any of our children. It really works wonders for children when they think they have equal value and are all loved unconditionally.

That is why neither one of us has ever labeled our children 'step' children and I feel uncomfortable to even write that. It automatically makes a child feel pushed aside ...ostracized and different imo. And I feel that is why that none of our 5 children refer to their siblings as 'step brother or step sisters' and they are simply either their brother or sisters.

I can't speak for anyone else who has a blended family but it worked great for all of us. We have truly been blessed and I would like think it is because we knew it would work if each one knew they were equally special to us and very much loved.

My biological children think my hubby hung the moon and stars but he has earned that by being totally devoted, supportive, loving and all inclusive to all 5.

IMO

SophieRose
09-16-2011, 02:51 PM
They have over the years used the video to monitor for jumpers, too.

http://donnagore.com/2011/07/24/san-diego%E2%80%99s-coronado-bridge-and-the-city%E2%80%99s-recent-suicides/

Another option has reduced the number of suicides. Regular patrols by the California Highway Patrol officers were based at the Coronado Bridge’s toll plaza, 24/7, monitoring video from eight or nine bridge cameras. These efforts allow quicker access to those than otherwise in which response time would be at least an hour.

I wanted to add that the Coronado Bridge has no pedestrian walkways, bikepaths, or breakdown lanes.

CDS22
09-16-2011, 02:57 PM
BBM

Ocean, I have kept up with threads as I can. Had to have demolition crew take down 1/2 my house because of Irene. I am still very interested in this case, but I hadn't heard Rebecca and her sister went shopping. Please tell me where they went, what time and what they bought, if you know.

Also, I am glad you have such a good relationship with your husband's (and now your) children. It doesn't always work out that way, and you must have put a lot of effort and love into it. :clap::clap::clap:

Here's the part about the shopping:



Mary Zahau agreed, saying “...she was talking to me several times both the day of Max’s injury and on Tuesday, the day before she died... She went about normal routines... She went shopping with my little sister who was there visiting her. She went to eat meals... she was talking to me on the phone... If she was that unstable, how do you explain her normal behavior pattern?”


http://www.examiner.com/us-headlines-in-national/friend-rebecca-zahau-was-a-christian-and-knew-only-god-could-save

SunnieRN
09-16-2011, 03:53 PM
Awesome find Sunnie! Who was that woman??? Looked an awful lot like DS to me, but who knows. Sure wasn't dressed like the maid and if that is what the help drives in AZ......I'm packin' now!

It for sure is NOT DS, but for the person to be there the day after a death, I would say it has to be someone important enough for JS to trust, whether it is an employee, a friend of JS or a friend of RZ.

Just curious due to the timing, who it may have been.


DS would have been with MS since he was still alive when that video was taken.

Correct. Never even entertained the thought that it was DS, just thought it may be someone I missed in the round of reporting.


I believe that reference was to a woman in the Coronado driveway, correct? I believe the video shows a woman at his AZ home. Anyone know for sure?

You are correct Deanna, just curious who it may have been as they seemed comfortable with the gate, garage, etc.

SunnieRN
09-16-2011, 03:59 PM
Here's the part about the shopping:





http://www.examiner.com/us-headlines-in-national/friend-rebecca-zahau-was-a-christian-and-knew-only-god-could-save

Wasn't Rebecca bringing JS clothing and meals after the accident occurred? We also don't know what kind of shopping Rebecca and XZ took in. Was it to be out of the house while the chandelier was fixed and LE was doing their investigation? Clothing to replace XZ clothes that may have been ruined when she cut her leg cleaning up glass? School clothes, as it states that the Zahou family are not well off financially?

As far as eating out, maybe Rebecca didn't feel like she could sit in the kitchen cooking and instead they ate out and then brought JS His meals.

I have no idea what transpired. This is just moo, and what might have occurred. I highly doubt Rebecca had carte blanche with JS bank account.

SophieRose
09-16-2011, 04:02 PM
Wasn't Rebecca bringing JS clothing and meals after the accident occurred? We also don't know what kind of shopping Rebecca and XZ took in. Was it to be out of the house while the chandelier was fixed and LE was doing their investigation?
Where has it been said that the chandelier was fixed after Max's accident?

curiousjo
09-16-2011, 04:10 PM
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15466715/questions-linger-in-coronado-mansion-hanging-death

WS made the news. Interesting video and photos - everyone should view.

Curious Me
09-16-2011, 04:16 PM
Thank you very much Coastal!!

Does anyone know who the lady at the end of this video is? It was taken at JS PV, AZ home.


New details emerging in San Diego mansion death - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4IOuN0pqCA&feature=related)

Thank You for finding the news report. Is that woman DS?

deanna82437
09-16-2011, 04:41 PM
Thank You for finding the news report. Is that woman DS?


Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
Thank you very much Coastal!!

Does anyone know who the lady at the end of this video is? It was taken at JS PV, AZ home.


New details emerging in San Diego mansion death - YouTube

Upthread it states it was not DS, video was at his AZ home, DS was at the hospital with Max.

defense101
09-16-2011, 05:37 PM
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15466715/questions-linger-in-coronado-mansion-hanging-death

WS made the news. Thanks curiousjo, as well from that article

News 8 asked sheriff's homicide Lt. Larry Nesbit about that rope, which is clearly seen in an evidence photo posted online by the department.

"The picture we posted of the rope was actually taken by a Coronado police officer who was one of the first people to arrive on scene that day," Lt. Nesbit said.

I don't believe this for one second, I didn't find the exact sunrise for that day, but the sunrise graph for that month shows it to have been between 5:30 - 6:00 am, there is no way was it that dark at the time the first officer arrived on scene. imo

4Jacy
09-16-2011, 05:56 PM
Hi there Jacy. I sure hope you get your home built back soon.

I read that on the day Rebecca took her sister to the airport they went shopping. Sorry I don't remember where I read it after this long.

Thank you.

It was the most effortless thing we have ever had to do. We both just went into it with open arms and never ever excluded any of our children. It really works wonders for children when they think they have equal value and are all loved unconditionally.

That is why neither one of us has ever labeled our children 'step' children and I feel uncomfortable to even write that. It automatically makes a child feel pushed aside ...ostracized and different imo. And I feel that is why that none of our 5 children refer to their siblings as 'step brother or step sisters' and they are simply either their brother or sisters.

I can't speak for anyone else who has a blended family but it worked great for all of us. We have truly been blessed and I would like think it is because we knew it would work if each one knew they were equally special to us and very much loved.

My biological children think my hubby hung the moon and stars but he has earned that by being totally devoted, supportive, loving and all inclusive to all 5.

IMO

O/T for a moment, but hat's off to ocean and her husband.

:goldcrown:

deanna82437
09-16-2011, 06:02 PM
Thanks curiousjo, as well from that article

News 8 asked sheriff's homicide Lt. Larry Nesbit about that rope, which is clearly seen in an evidence photo posted online by the department.

"The picture we posted of the rope was actually taken by a Coronado police officer who was one of the first people to arrive on scene that day," Lt. Nesbit said.

I don't believe this for one second, I didn't find the exact sunrise for that day, but the sunrise graph for that month shows it to have been between 5:30 - 6:00 am, there is no way was it that dark at the time the first officer arrived on scene. imo

You didn't ask, but found this for 7/13 .. which might be helpful for some.

Actual Time 5:50 AM PDT 7:58 PM PDT
Civil Twilight 5:22 AM PDT 8:26 PM PDT
Nautical Twilight 4:48 AM PDT 9:00 PM PDT
Astronomical Twilight 4:11 AM PDT 9:37 PM PDT
Moon 6:51 PM PDT (7/13) 4:13 AM PDT (7/13)
Length Of Visible Light 15h 04m
Length of Day 14h 07m

4Jacy
09-16-2011, 06:10 PM
Wasn't Rebecca bringing JS clothing and meals after the accident occurred? We also don't know what kind of shopping Rebecca and XZ took in. Was it to be out of the house while the chandelier was fixed and LE was doing their investigation? Clothing to replace XZ clothes that may have been ruined when she cut her leg cleaning up glass? School clothes, as it states that the Zahou family are not well off financially?

As far as eating out, maybe Rebecca didn't feel like she could sit in the kitchen cooking and instead they ate out and then brought JS His meals.

I have no idea what transpired. This is just moo, and what might have occurred. I highly doubt Rebecca had carte blanche with JS bank account.

BBM

I asked ocean where, what time and what did they buy, in order for me to get a mind set of RZ. It never occurred to be she was blingin' out JS card. But, now that you mentioned it, if she was out buying school supplies for her sister, female items, books, make-up, I can understand that. However, if she was buying bling and more bling, that would be something to know.

stilettos
09-16-2011, 06:13 PM
Hi there Jacy. I sure hope you get your home built back soon.

I read that on the day Rebecca took her sister to the airport they went shopping. Sorry I don't remember where I read it after this long.

Thank you.

It was the most effortless thing we have ever had to do. We both just went into it with open arms and never ever excluded any of our children. It really works wonders for children when they think they have equal value and are all loved unconditionally.

That is why neither one of us has ever labeled our children 'step' children and I feel uncomfortable to even write that. It automatically makes a child feel pushed aside ...ostracized and different imo. And I feel that is why that none of our 5 children refer to their siblings as 'step brother or step sisters' and they are simply either their brother or sisters.

I can't speak for anyone else who has a blended family but it worked great for all of us. We have truly been blessed and I would like think it is because we knew it would work if each one knew they were equally special to us and very much loved.

My biological children think my hubby hung the moon and stars but he has earned that by being totally devoted, supportive, loving and all inclusive to all 5.

IMO

:rocker::seeya:Ocean - we have five children...one my biological daughter and four adopted daughters. none are DH's biological children...but being a Father is moe than the biological act. They are all equal, no favorites and they know it...and they all love their Daddy. He has parented them all as HIS and it shows in their adult lives. It is amazing to watch. Having been the recipient of just such a selfless act of the heart myself (My Foster dad is my world.) I know what it does for a young woman to be loved so selflessly by her Dad. :woohoo:

Rhyme & Reason
09-16-2011, 08:14 PM
It for sure is NOT DS, but for the person to be there the day after a death, I would say it has to be someone important enough for JS to trust, whether it is an employee, a friend of JS or a friend of RZ.

Just curious due to the timing, who it may have been.



Correct. Never even entertained the thought that it was DS, just thought it may be someone I missed in the round of reporting.



You are correct Deanna, just curious who it may have been as they seemed comfortable with the gate, garage, etc.

Maybe it was DS sister?

SunnieRN
09-16-2011, 08:20 PM
Thanks curiousjo, as well from that article

News 8 asked sheriff's homicide Lt. Larry Nesbit about that rope, which is clearly seen in an evidence photo posted online by the department.

"The picture we posted of the rope was actually taken by a Coronado police officer who was one of the first people to arrive on scene that day," Lt. Nesbit said.

I don't believe this for one second, I didn't find the exact sunrise for that day, but the sunrise graph for that month shows it to have been between 5:30 - 6:00 am, there is no way was it that dark at the time the first officer arrived on scene. imo

That still would not explain why the scene was tampered with prior to being processed!!


Maybe it was DS sister?

Big possibility of that, I would imagine. Thanks!!!!

SophieRose
09-16-2011, 09:17 PM
Originally Posted by SunnieRN
It for sure is NOT DS, but for the person to be there the day after a death, I would say it has to be someone important enough for JS to trust, whether it is an employee, a friend of JS or a friend of RZ.

Just curious due to the timing, who it may have been.

Correct. Never even entertained the thought that it was DS, just thought it may be someone I missed in the round of reporting.

You are correct Deanna, just curious who it may have been as they seemed comfortable with the gate, garage, etc.



Maybe it was DS sister?

I would think DS sister was still with her since MS was still alive. It may have been JS's executive assistant. EA's to CEO's can make plenty, so they could afford that car. And if JS often worked from home, the EA could have access to the home. Or even if at an office, may need to go to his house to pick up things etc.

rosemary
09-17-2011, 07:34 AM
I wonder what actually went on and what actually was said when Rebecca went to pick up Nina in the airport. I can only imagine how awkward and tense the whole thing would have been for the two of them. I'm also curious why Rebecca was the one driving everyone around, picking them up and dropping them off. Doesn't Jonah have a driver to do that kinda thing? Doesn't he have any staff or house hold help at all?

SunnieRN
09-17-2011, 09:52 AM
The article explains why JS's message went to voice mail:


Also, I'll bet the police have the actual voicemail message, even though it was deleted. It's not impossible to get a deleted message, even though the Zahau family lawyer claims otherwise.



http://www.760kfmb.com/story/15485069/records-reveal-final-cell-phone-calls-to-rebecca-zahau

I have had voice mails not go through until a later time also. Depends on the tower signals etc. It's possible she didn't get either one until later, or she could have been sleeping also.

I though LE said in the PC they couldn't recover the message as they didn't know how? Something about the phone being too advanced. Rebecca's family said they wanted to have it foresically tested, to see what could be found.

jjenny
09-17-2011, 10:49 AM
The article explains why JS's message went to voice mail:




Also, I'll bet the police have the actual voicemail message, even though it was deleted. It's not impossible to get a deleted message, even though the Zahau family lawyer claims otherwise.



http://www.760kfmb.com/story/15485069/records-reveal-final-cell-phone-calls-to-rebecca-zahau

It might not be impossible but it has not been recovered.

jjenny
09-17-2011, 10:51 AM
I wonder what actually went on and what actually was said when Rebecca went to pick up Nina in the airport. I can only imagine how awkward and tense the whole thing would have been for the two of them. I'm also curious why Rebecca was the one driving everyone around, picking them up and dropping them off. Doesn't Jonah have a driver to do that kinda thing? Doesn't he have any staff or house hold help at all?

As we have discussed, there have been no mention of any staff so far.

stilettos
09-17-2011, 10:56 AM
As we have discussed, there have been no mention of any staff so far.

No, it looks as though he had Rebecca to do all that.

SunnieRN
09-17-2011, 11:00 AM
I would think that without AS, JS, DS and possibly NR phone records, that LE could not actually make a determination in the case. I would think that phone records and cell pings would be something the Zahou family will want.

jjenny
09-17-2011, 11:13 AM
When police talked alibis, so far they have only mentioned 2 people: DS and JS.
I don't know if they bothered to check if others had alibis.

JBean
09-17-2011, 11:31 AM
Rebecca's cell phone records - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

tvscum
09-17-2011, 12:41 PM
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1107/19/ijvm.01.html
ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL
Mansion Mystery: 2 Deaths in 2 Days
Aired July 19, 2011 - 19:00:00 ET

Ok thanks for the info. I now believe there are two mystery women in this case. The one seen in the video news report below (uploaded July 14?) from ABC 15 in Phoenix:

New details emerging in San Diego mansion death - YouTube

And, a second woman TG reported seeing in a white sedan when he exited the mansion with the dog on July 12.

rosemary
09-17-2011, 01:07 PM
Ok thanks for the info. I now believe there are two mystery women in this case. The one seen in the video news report below (uploaded July 14?) from ABC 15 in Phoenix:

New details emerging in San Diego mansion death - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4IOuN0pqCA&feature=related)

And, a second woman TG reported seeing in a white sedan when he exited the mansion with the dog on July 12.

was there any physical description given of the woman in in the white sedan?

deanna82437
09-17-2011, 01:14 PM
I vaguely recall the dog guy telling about a woman he saw at the mansion. Does anyone have a link to that? I remember one saying that she was a well dressed woman, but I believe that was the day Rebecca was found.

sdcali
09-17-2011, 02:45 PM
Thanks curiousjo, as well from that article

News 8 asked sheriff's homicide Lt. Larry Nesbit about that rope, which is clearly seen in an evidence photo posted online by the department.

"The picture we posted of the rope was actually taken by a Coronado police officer who was one of the first people to arrive on scene that day," Lt. Nesbit said.

I don't believe this for one second, I didn't find the exact sunrise for that day, but the sunrise graph for that month shows it to have been between 5:30 - 6:00 am, there is no way was it that dark at the time the first officer arrived on scene. imo

I live in San Diego and leave for work at 6:30-6:45 a.m. and in July it was not dark at that time. That is 100% wrong. Reports are that AS called at 6:48 a.m and CPD got there 2 minutes later and CFD, 3 minutes later. Dark? HA! NOT.

CalElliot
09-17-2011, 02:46 PM
So going with Sorrell Skye estimates of crime scene bedroom measurements and AR...


AR has rope on wrists at 84" + loop, appx. 90” = appx. 7.5'
AR DOES NOT INCLUDE LENGTH OF ROPE ON ANKLES.
From my loose-rope re-creation, I came up with appx. 20' for rope for BOTH bindings (which means an extremely generous 12.5' for ankle binding; may have been closer to 9'; loops on tow line are 6”).
PLUS 17' to 19' based on Sorrell Skye estimate above.
PLUS rope on neck as per AR of 22" plus loop = appx 2.5'
PLUS 9'2" drop = appx. 9'



At a minimum: 7.5 + 9 + 17 + 2.5 + 9 = 45'

At a maximum: 7.5 + 12.5 + 19 + 2.5 + 9 = 50.5'

Conclusions:

1) The rope was NOT masterfully cut into the perfect lengths for binding and hanging.

2) LE left out total amount of rope present at crime scene.

3) The total amount does not add up to the standard 60' minimum length of a two-person/340 tow rope (some two-person two ropes are LONGER).

4) There is a missing piece of rope that is approximately 9.5’ to 15' long.

Please doublecheck these figures. Thank you.

SophieRose
09-17-2011, 03:59 PM
I live in San Diego and leave for work at 6:30-6:45 a.m. and in July it was not dark at that time. That is 100% wrong. Reports are that AS called at 6:48 a.m and CPD got there 2 minutes later and CFD, 3 minutes later. Dark? HA! NOT.

Where does it say dark? He is talking abut this photo taken before 9:20 when the Sheriff's dept arrived. The one in the dark was taken at 3:32 am.

http://kfmb.images.worldnow.com/images/15466715_BG3.jpg

elementry
09-17-2011, 06:28 PM
was there any physical description given of the woman in in the white sedan?

It did look a little like DS. Now that we know she has a twin, could have been Nina........

defense101
09-17-2011, 06:56 PM
Where does it say dark? He is talking abut this photo taken before 9:20 when the Sheriff's dept arrived. The one in the dark was taken at 3:32 am.

http://kfmb.images.worldnow.com/images/15466715_BG3.jpg

If that is case then the one in the dark doesn't accurately show where the rope actually was then.

SunnieRN
09-17-2011, 09:41 PM
Look at this article:

http://www.uncoverage.net/2011/07/2-mysterious-deaths-at-millionaire-democrats-san-diego-home-raise-more-questions/

snip

Back to July 11, the date of 6-yr-old Max Stacknai’s accident. Down the street, the location of Dina Stacknai’s home. Dina Stacknai, the estranged wife of Jonah Stacknai, mother of 6-yr-old Max.

According to a report from local CBS 8 affiliate, neighbors reported a ‘police disturbance’ at Dina Shacknai’s home on the day of Max’s accident. Missing from the report, when the ‘disturbance’ occurred?


What? Was this LE looking for DS? Or does this have something to do with LE being unable to find/reach DS for a few hours after Max's accident?

tvscum
09-18-2011, 02:34 PM
was there any physical description given of the woman in in the white sedan?

Young. Dark hair.

SunnieRN
09-18-2011, 02:57 PM
Young. Dark hair.

So the woman seen in the sedan in Coronado, could easily be DS sister, as she was in Coronado at that time. I wonder if Rebecca had any friends in Coronado, who may have stopped by to check on Max or see how Rebecca was doing?

Curious Me
09-18-2011, 04:15 PM
I keep thinking about all the carting around of people Rebecca was doing - how awkward the situation, and how alone she really was. You'd think if she was internally upset enough to commit suicide so quickly, then she would show signs/admit she was in no position to be driving other people. Can't any of these people afford a taxi? I don't think she felt at fault for MS's accident. I think she probably thought she was being strong and helpful for the family. How sad.

Wonder what DS's twin sister wanted to talk to her about? Do they look so much alike you could mistake one for the other?

curiousjo
09-18-2011, 06:28 PM
This is DS photo with kids. I think the AZ video mystery woman looks like her, so maybe that was the twin?
-Happier times, very nice photo:

https://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=166339380720&v=wall#!/photo.php?fbid=10150353713883696&set=a.10150353713753696.423615.804183695&type=1&theater

deanna82437
09-18-2011, 06:53 PM
This is DS photo with kids. I think the AZ video mystery woman looks like her, so maybe that was the twin?

https://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=166339380720&v=wall#!/photo.php?fbid=10150353713883696&set=a.10150353713753696.423615.804183695&type=1&theater

That photo sure started my brain cells jumping. She uploaded that on 6/27 only a couple of weeks before the accident. Could that mean those two were there when the accident happened and were whisked out of town so they did not become involved? This just keeps getting more weird each day.

deanna82437
09-18-2011, 07:04 PM
Look at this article:

http://www.uncoverage.net/2011/07/2-mysterious-deaths-at-millionaire-democrats-san-diego-home-raise-more-questions/

snip

Back to July 11, the date of 6-yr-old Max Stacknai’s accident. Down the street, the location of Dina Stacknai’s home. Dina Stacknai, the estranged wife of Jonah Stacknai, mother of 6-yr-old Max.

According to a report from local CBS 8 affiliate, neighbors reported a ‘police disturbance’ at Dina Shacknai’s home on the day of Max’s accident. Missing from the report, when the ‘disturbance’ occurred?


What? Was this LE looking for DS? Or does this have something to do with LE being unable to find/reach DS for a few hours after Max's accident?

My thinking on this:

The police disturbance reported by DS's neighbors was the police trying to contact her regarding the accident. There is a post somewhere here that someone was on the police scanner thread and caught it as it happened. Sorry I don't have a link. But they were unable to locate her for several hours and apparently never did. (as we know it)

A dark headed, well dressed woman was seen by someone at the JS home at the time of the accident. There were also early reports that stated this.

I believe this woman was DS and also believe GS was there at the time of the accident.

I don't know how the twin sister fits into all of this. Didn't RZ pick her up at the airport later that day?

Anyway. That's how I feel about it today .. :crazy: These are all just my own ideas ... MOO MOO

SunnieRN
09-18-2011, 07:19 PM
GS is a beautiful girl and it is nice to see all three children together in a photo. Wonder where this was taken. Wonder if KS knows that her children spend time with DS?

Seeing Max is heartbreaking. He looks like a mini me of JS. TWA Max!!

branwynbreeze
09-19-2011, 05:19 PM
From Daily Beast article that I didn't know before:

Rebecca frantically dialed Shacknai. It was one of the few times he had his phone with him at the gym. When he answered, all he heard was a frightening din. He raced home in time to see Max being loaded into an ambulance. Shacknai climbed in for the trip to Sharp Coronado Hospital. (page 2)

Rebecca returned to the hospital the next day to see Max again while Dina was home sleeping after an all-night vigil. (page 2)

I thought it was said that family stayed at RMD house?

Link in casehttp://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/09/18/what-really-happened-in-the-coronado-mansion.html:

deanna82437
09-19-2011, 05:38 PM
GS is a beautiful girl and it is nice to see all three children together in a photo. Wonder where this was taken. Wonder if KS knows that her children spend time with DS?

Seeing Max is heartbreaking. He looks like a mini me of JS. TWA Max!!

From the FB page it indicates the picture was uploaded on 6/27/11 .. I would guess it to be DS's Coronado home. Just a guess, though.

Sad photo to look at now. RIP little Max.

time
09-19-2011, 05:40 PM
That seems so elaborate imo.

Do you really think that happened?



IMO


Yeah, but wouldn't this be considered an elaborate suicide if it were one?

Morag
09-19-2011, 05:44 PM
GS is a beautiful girl and it is nice to see all three children together in a photo. Wonder where this was taken. Wonder if KS knows that her children spend time with DS?

Seeing Max is heartbreaking. He looks like a mini me of JS. TWA Max!!

Somewhere I have seen an obit for Dina's father. It was from 2003, and it listed GS and ES as his grandchildren (this was long before MS was born).

time
09-19-2011, 05:49 PM
GS is a beautiful girl and it is nice to see all three children together in a photo. Wonder where this was taken. Wonder if KS knows that her children spend time with DS?

Seeing Max is heartbreaking. He looks like a mini me of JS. TWA Max!!

Hmmm.... yeah, what were the dynamics there? I can see them going from dad's house down to see Max at mom's in Coronado. I think it's a little strange DR would take a photo of them all together though. Can't explain, it just seems a bit too much to me.

SunnieRN
09-19-2011, 05:56 PM
Somewhere I have seen an obit for Dina's father. It was from 2003, and it listed GS and ES as his grandchildren (this was long before MS was born).

My, that's unusual. She was their step mom, while Dina was married to Jonah? Wonder how KS felt about that?

deanna82437
09-19-2011, 06:36 PM
For anyone interested Nightline on ABC is covering this case tonight. They are on at 11:00 in my area which is Mountain Time. If interested you'll need to check your schedules.

kathyn2
09-20-2011, 09:21 PM
I answered that it 'It was not a suicide' but I do believe someone that was angry that she was in charge of the child when he died, killed her most likely. This was no suicide. There is no proof that this woman even knew how to tie those elaborate knots or attempt to pull off this type of suicide. Until there is proof that she looked this stuff up online I won't believe it.

branwynbreeze
09-20-2011, 09:31 PM
I answered that it 'It was not a suicide' but I do believe someone that was angry that she was in charge of the child when he died, killed her most likely. This was no suicide. There is no proof that this woman even knew how to tie those elaborate knots or attempt to pull off this type of suicide. Until there is proof that she looked this stuff up online I won't believe it.

This is a big issue for me, as well. I'm fairly sure LE would have mentioned any searches on internet, that would have made their case for suicide stronger.

I'm have a difficult time believing that she managed to pull off such an elaborate suicide in 2 hours. Seems it may have been pushing time limit if it was researched and thought out.

Peaceful
09-21-2011, 12:12 AM
I have waist length hair and I always keep it tucked inside scarves and even wear it inside my coat in the wintertime. I didn't know that was unusual.

It seems extremely unusual if your from AZ, residing in sunny CA in the summer. IMO

revampz
09-21-2011, 02:42 AM
After following this case since the beginning I am certain that Max's death is also suspicious, I don't think he was murdered but it was an accidental death that involved rebecca. I think that both Jonah and Dinah are livid because of this. Up until today I was on the fence. My theory was that she had been verbally blamed by both Dina and Jonah and was about to lose the grandiose life that she wanted all her life ( I have read that she was extremely ambitious) as well as a threat of maybe jailtime or legal action. This lead to her being extremely angry, revengeful, scared and desperate and she set up her suicide to hurt and embarass Jonah.

HOWEVER after today reading those search warrants, I am now leading more towards Rebecca being an extremely strong, resilient woman and Dina and Jonah getting together and full o, f hatred towards her, along with AS have decided to punish her and get rid of her. I am thinking JS did it when he was supposedly at ronald mcs hence her being naked, maybe AS helped, I think it was set up for AS to then find her and set the whole suicide scene. They all agreed that they would stick to the story she committed suicide hence the calls/texts to each other that she had hung herself

GutInstinct
09-21-2011, 08:27 AM
Revampz: I agree with your analysis. I also think that MONEY had something to do with the cover up or "pushing it under the covers" with LE. This case was put to bed and closed fast. Money talks. Murdered and made to look like a suicide...

SunnieRN
09-21-2011, 10:45 AM
It seems extremely unusual if your from AZ, residing in sunny CA in the summer. IMO

AZ summers are HOT!!! Often 115 degrees or hotter.

Coronado is a nice balmy 80-90 degree region, (some higher days, some cooler), and it even gets quite cool in the morning or at night. Perfect summer weather.

CathyinTexas
09-21-2011, 10:46 AM
It seems obvious to many that Rebecca was murdered. What do you think is the reason the police rushed to this conclusion and closed the case? There are many details about this case that trouble me but I don't think hanging is the method of choice for women. I wonder what the statistics are of a woman hanging herself.

KarenM
09-21-2011, 10:05 PM
It seems obvious to many that Rebecca was murdered. What do you think is the reason the police rushed to this conclusion and closed the case? There are many details about this case that trouble me but I don't think hanging is the method of choice for women. I wonder what the statistics are of a woman hanging herself.


39% women used poison. 31 percent of women used firearm. 20% of women used hanging/strangulation/suffocation.

Non-white women have the second lowest suicide rate. The lowest is Black women.

(Group) (# of suicide in 2005) (Rate of death per 100,000)
White Men 23,478 (19.7)
White Women 6,049 (5)
Nonwhite Men 2,429 (9)
Nonwhite Women 681 (2.3)
Black Men 1,621 (8.7)
Black Women 371 (1.8)

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html

CDS22
09-21-2011, 10:10 PM
39% women used poison. 31 percent of women used firearm. 20% of women used hanging/strangulation/suffocation.

Non-white women have the second lowest suicide rate. The lowest is Black women.

(Group) (# of suicide in 2005) (Rate of death per 100,000)
White Men 23,478 (19.7)
White Women 6,049 (5)
Nonwhite Men 2,429 (9)
Nonwhite Women 681 (2.3)
Black Men 1,621 (8.7)
Black Women 371 (1.8)

http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html

You left out suicide statistics for Asian women. They have the highest suicide rate of any demographic:

http://www.findcounseling.com/help/news/2007/05/suicide_rates_highest_among_young_asianamerican_wo men_1.html

KarenM
09-21-2011, 10:17 PM
You left out suicide statistics for Asian women. They have the highest suicide rate of any demographic:

http://www.findcounseling.com/help/news/2007/05/suicide_rates_highest_among_young_asianamerican_wo men_1.html

I did not leave out Asian women. The statistics provded by suicide.org does not have a category for Asian women.

The link you provided was about Asian-American women ages 15-24. They have the highest suicide rate of women in any race or ethnic group in that age group. The article further states the reason for high Asian American youth's suicide rate is due to the push to achieve and succeed.

CDS22
09-21-2011, 10:20 PM
I did not leave out Asian women. The statistics provded by suicide.org does not have a category for Asian women.

The link you provided was about Asian-American women ages 15-24. They have the highest suicide rate of women in any race or ethnic group in that age group. The article further states the reason for high Asian American youth's suicide rate is due to the push to achieve and succeed.

If you want to play the link game, there are links about Asian women up to age 35, which fits RZ's age group. Same thing applies. And go to ANY Asian country and watch the news. Suicide is extremely common, and common by hanging, especially among women.

KarenM
09-21-2011, 10:31 PM
If you want to play the link game, there are links about Asian women up to age 35, which fits RZ's age group. Same thing applies. And go to ANY Asian country and watch the news. Suicide is extremely common, and common by hanging, especially among women.

Maybe to you this is game. To me it is simply statistics.

From National Institute of Mental Health
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/suicide-in-the-us-statistics-and-prevention/index.shtml#races

Are Some Ethnic Groups or Races at Higher Risk?

Of every 100,000 people in each of the following ethnic/racial groups below, the following number died by suicide in 2007.1

Highest rates:
American Indian and Alaska Natives — 14.3 per 100,000
Non-Hispanic Whites — 13.5 per 100,000
Lowest rates:
Hispanics — 6.0 per 100,000
Non-Hispanic Blacks — 5.1 per 100,000
Asian and Pacific Islanders — 6.2 per 100,000

I never said suicide by hanging is not common. Suicide.org's statistics on women's hanging is on par with National Institute of Mental Health's data (21%).

Also from NIMH:
Suicide by: Males (%) Females (%)
Firearms 56 30
Suffocation 24 21
Poisoning 13 40

Kealia
09-21-2011, 10:55 PM
Haven't been able to get here for a few days, then couldn't find the thread. So many new developments. Anybody have an opinion of who the witness might be who provided new information that RN could have died before midnight?

Also, in response to Curiousme, I totally agree w/ your comment about the taxi. I find it odd that RN was picking up JS's ex-wife's sister from the airport. I can understand her picking up AS -- that's his bro, but why the heck would RN pick up somebody who isn't even in the Shacknai family anymore. Can understand that everyone pulled together under the tragic circumstances, but on the other hand, if I was NS I'd want to get my own ride, not ride with the person who was in charge of MS at the time he had his accident.

How close could RN have gotten w/ JS's ex's family in the 2 years they were dating. Seems the JS/DS divorce was contentious, can't see them after only two years being great friends again to where DS and RN would have any social interaction.

Also, if RN did pick up NS, why didn't she ask her during the car ride what happened the morning of the accident. Instead, she wanted to go over that night to the mansion to talk to RN about it?

Was interesting that RN's sister said she didn't see JS and RN being affectionate, and didn't know JS's feelings for RN. She knew that RN loved him. Had relationship broken down this year to where he just treated her like hired help, child care, chauffeur, etc.?

JMO

jjenny
09-21-2011, 10:59 PM
We have heard now from several sources that DS didn't like RN even before Max's accident. I also find it very strange that RN had to pick up DS's twin sister from the airport. That had to be uncomfortable to say the least.

defense101
09-21-2011, 11:16 PM
I find the way her wrists were tied reminds me of tying down on a boat, you hook the loop around first, well take a look at the video and picture here and what does it remind you of at the beginning of the video?

How To Tie And Anchor Your Boat - Video

http://www.ehow.com/how_8781078_use-boat-dock-line.html

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 12:19 AM
We have heard now from several sources that DS didn't like RN even before Max's accident. I also find it very strange that RN had to pick up DS's twin sister from the airport. That had to be uncomfortable to say the least.

I think having my child or nephew on life support trumps being uncomfortable driving a car to pick up someone at the airport.

JMO

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 12:20 AM
I find the way her wrists were tied reminds me of tying down on a boat, you hook the loop around first, well take a look at the video and picture here and what does it remind you of at the beginning of the video?

How To Tie And Anchor Your Boat - Video (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2658031/how_to_tie_and_anchor_your_boat/)

http://www.ehow.com/how_8781078_use-boat-dock-line.html

I think it is no coincidence that both can be accomplished easily.

defense101
09-22-2011, 12:34 AM
I think it is no coincidence that both can be accomplished easily. It has nothing to do with whether or not it can be accomplished easily or not, now if I were to tie my own hands up and not being a boater I wouldn't think to tie my hands up in that fashion. imo

SophieRose
09-22-2011, 12:40 AM
It has nothing to do with whether or not it can be accomplished easily or not, now if I were to tie my own hands up and not being a boater I wouldn't think to tie my hands up in that fashion. imo

Since you believe it was murder, why do you think they tied her hands up? And why didn't they tie them up tighter?

defense101
09-22-2011, 12:46 AM
Since you believe it was murder, why do you think they tied her hands up? And why didn't they tie them up tighter?I don't know why or how they became loose or even if they were, I was commenting on the method in which they were tied, as a non boater and if I was to tie my hands up that method would not have occurred to me.

Pach
09-22-2011, 12:47 AM
Just to add, anyone knows how this story of RN picking up DS's twin sister originated ?? if this originated on the say-so only of DS's twin sister or of the Romano's relatives, then I would take this with a grain of salt specially since she was the last person to text RN at 10:40 pm something, and moreso that she said she called earlier than that(contradicting the cellphone log).

Furthermore, the said twin sister left San Diego on Saturday, July 16, the same day her sister's son, Max, was taken off life support. why not wait to comfort her sister or to attend maxie's funeral or the funeral of the lady who supposedly picked her up at the airport.

In addition, if this twin sister is an identical twin then the alibi of DS being at the hospital needs to be looked at more closely by looking at the security cameras in the hospital again since, we are now talking about the possibility of identical twins walking in and out of the hospital.





We have heard now from several sources that DS didn't like RN even before Max's accident. I also find it very strange that RN had to pick up DS's twin sister from the airport. That had to be uncomfortable to say the least.

SophieRose
09-22-2011, 12:57 AM
I don't know why or how they became loose or even if they were, I was commenting on the method in which they were tied, as a non boater and if I was to tie my hands up that method would not have occurred to me.

The ME said they came off very easily.

Pach
09-22-2011, 01:02 AM
my comments:

1.) well if it came off easily then, in theory, Rebecca might have been able to untie herself, if she was still alive. Obviously, she did not since she is dead.

2.)it might have become loose because the hanging or dragging of her body can loosen knots depending on how the rope was tied.


The ME said they came off very easily.

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 01:11 AM
It has nothing to do with whether or not it can be accomplished easily or not, now if I were to tie my own hands up and not being a boater I wouldn't think to tie my hands up in that fashion. imo

Being a boater has nothing to do with the determination of someone wishing to commit suicide.

JMO

SophieRose
09-22-2011, 01:14 AM
my comments:

2.)it might have become loose because the hanging or dragging of her body can loosen knots depending on how the rope was tied.

Was there any evidence that her body was dragged?

CDS22
09-22-2011, 01:18 AM
Was there any evidence that her body was dragged?

That's a very good point. The AR made a point of stating that there were no signs of a struggle.

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 01:18 AM
Since you believe it was murder, why do you think they tied her hands up? And why didn't they tie them up tighter?

I have yet to see a reasonable explanation for why a murderer would bind the hands and feet and leave them tied if the goal was to make it appear to be a suicide.

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 01:21 AM
Was there any evidence that her body was dragged?

No. Such evidence would point to a homicide. My take from the press conference is that LE couldn't find any evidence of homicide.

CDS22
09-22-2011, 01:24 AM
Evidence at Spreckels mansion quickly pointed to suicide



http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0922-mansion-death-20110922,0,44787.story

Pach
09-22-2011, 01:31 AM
1.) thats the reason why people want to reopen the case since they are not convinced of the suicide findings(i.e. no signs of struggle)

2.) there are head wounds(bonking the head hard enough can make her unconscious), and another thing/scenario - if strangulation is done very quickly by a very strong person, the victim won't have time to struggle since death will occur rapidly.


That's a very good point. The AR made a point of stating that there were no signs of a struggle.

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 01:34 AM
Evidence at Spreckels mansion quickly pointed to suicide



http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0922-mansion-death-20110922,0,44787.story

And the tide turns toward suicide. Without new evidence, I now doubt LE will re-open the suicide investigation.

JMO

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 01:36 AM
1.) thats the reason why people want to reopen the case since they are not convinced of the suicide findings(i.e. no signs of struggle)

2.) there are head wounds(bonking the head hard enough can make her unconscious), and another thing/scenario - if strangulation is done very quickly, the victim won't have time to struggle sincedeath will occur rapidly.

The LE theory includes her going over a wrought iron railing which would make a head injury very plausible.

JMO

Pach
09-22-2011, 01:37 AM
there is nothing new in this news article except summarize what we already know.

I dont understand why the L.A. times reporter did not find it strange for LE to declare it a suicide even though this same reporter states in this article the following:
"Inside the mansion, investigators found Zahau's journal and discovered that she had painted a kind of farewell note on the wall of her bedroom.(LOL-certainly a confusing farewell if it was one)) Later, forensic evidence found only her DNA on the rope around her neck.(LOL-it just means the rope was around her neck, how about a perp using gloves, hello !)

Also, Shacknai's brother, Adam, who found Zahau's body, voluntarily took a polygraph exam soon after her death. Although the examiner said the tests were inconclusive, she also said that she felt he was telling the truth when he denied any involvement in the death, according to the warrants.(LOL-inconclusive ? hello ! then do the test again, not use your feelings)


Evidence at Spreckels mansion quickly pointed to suicide



http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0922-mansion-death-20110922,0,44787.story

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 01:41 AM
there is nothing new in this news article except summarize what we already know.

I dont understand why the L.A. times reporter did not find it strange for LE to dclare it a suicide even though this same reporter states in this article the following:
"Inside the mansion, investigators found Zahau's journal and discovered that she had painted a kind of farewell note on the wall of her bedroom.(LOL) Later, forensic evidence found only her DNA on the rope around her neck.(LOL)

Also, Shacknai's brother, Adam, who found Zahau's body, voluntarily took a polygraph exam soon after her death. Although the examiner said the tests were inconclusive, she also said that she felt he was telling the truth when he denied any involvement in the death, according to the warrants.(LOL)

The LA Times reporter also mentions that the investigator who initially suspected homicide changed his opinion after finding the journal, farewell note and only her DNA on the rope around her neck. None of that points to homicide, it points to a suicide.

JMO

CDS22
09-22-2011, 01:42 AM
1.) thats the reason why people want to reopen the case since they are not convinced of the suicide findings(i.e. no signs of struggle)

2.) there are head wounds(bonking the head hard enough can make her unconscious), and another thing/scenario - if strangulation is done very quickly, the victim won't have time to struggle sincedeath will occur rapidly.

The head wounds were very minor, according to police reports. They were not enough to render her unconcious.

Pach
09-22-2011, 01:42 AM
the head injuries can support at least 2 theories- the going over the iron rail(staged suicide or voluntary suicide) or she was bonked on the head by a perp.

The LE theory includes her going over a wrought iron railing which would make a head injury very plausible.

JMO

CDS22
09-22-2011, 01:43 AM
there is nothing new in this news article except summarize what we already know.

I dont understand why the L.A. times reporter did not find it strange for LE to declare it a suicide even though this same reporter states in this article the following:
"Inside the mansion, investigators found Zahau's journal and discovered that she had painted a kind of farewell note on the wall of her bedroom.(LOL-certainly a confusing farewell if it was one)) Later, forensic evidence found only her DNA on the rope around her neck.(LOL-it just means the rope was around her neck, how about a perp using gloves, hello !)

Also, Shacknai's brother, Adam, who found Zahau's body, voluntarily took a polygraph exam soon after her death. Although the examiner said the tests were inconclusive, she also said that she felt he was telling the truth when he denied any involvement in the death, according to the warrants.(LOL-inconclusive ? hello ! then do the test again, not use your feelings)

The article states that they quickly changed their viewpoint to suicide because the evidence was overwhelming.

TorisMom003
09-22-2011, 01:45 AM
At the link provided above I see at least 3 things wrong in the story. It is difficult for one to believe the entire story/article when there are clearly things reported falsely in it.


1. Inside the mansion, investigators found Zahau's journal and discovered that she had painted a kind of farewell note on the wall of her bedroom. Later, forensic evidence found only her DNA on the rope around her neck.

The above bolded section is not accurate. The message was on the door to the guest bedroom, not the wall of Rebecca's bedroom.

2. Adam Shacknai was the only adult present when Zahau killed herself, the warrants said. Jonah Shacknai and his ex-wife, Dina, were keeping a vigil at Rady Children's Hospital for their son, injured two days earlier in a fall at the mansion.

Again, the above bolded is not accurate. It is reported that Dina was at the hospital during the time that Rebecca died, however Jonah was not. Jonah was absent from the hospital for at least 6 hours which includes the time that Rebecca died.

3. Within minutes she had found a rope, cut it to appropriate lengths and committed suicide, according to the medical examiner.

The above has not been stated before. The estimated time of death is not "within minutes" of Rebecca receiving the news that Max had taken a turn for the worst.

Pach
09-22-2011, 01:51 AM
the evidence can point to suicide as a theory, but the evidence is not convincing because it can also point to a murder theory. therefore, this should be declared "undetermined" cause in the higher interest of truth, thats the reason majority of posters are calling for reopening the case since there are a lot of holes in the suicide theory as mentioned.

now, if this LA. Times story is another PR offensive , thats another topic.


The LA Times reporter also mentions that the investigator who initially suspected homicide changed his opinion after finding the journal, farewell note and only her DNA on the rope around her neck. None of that points to homicide, it points to a suicide.

JMO

Pach
09-22-2011, 01:54 AM
if the evidence was overwhelming, then the Rebecca threads here would not be this long.the evidence is simply not convincing - unless there is still evidence , the public has not seen - thats why news organizatons and rebecca's family wants or had this unsealed, e.g cellphone records etc


The article states that they quickly changed their viewpoint to suicide because the evidence was overwhelming.

CDS22
09-22-2011, 01:56 AM
if the evidence was overwhelming, then the Rebecca threads here would not be this long.the evidence is simply not convincing - unless there is still evidence , the public has not seen - thats why news organizatons and rebecca's family wants or had this unsealed, e.g cellphone records etc

Just because you or others don't find the evidence overwhelming, doesn't mean that it wasn't. Four independent investigations found the suicide evidence overwhelming.

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 01:58 AM
the evidence can point to suicide as a theory, but the evidence is not convincing because it can also point to a murder theory. therefore, this should be declared "undetermined" cause in the higher interest of truth, thats the reason majority of posters are calling for reopening the case since there are a lot of holes in the suicide theory as mentioned.

now, if this LA. Times story is another PR offensive , thats another topic.

The majority of posters aren't LE and haven't seen all the evidence. The evidence in totality conviced LE that suicide was more than just a theory. There is evidence the public has not seen. If the ME views it as conclusive, I seriously doubt he will change the death certificate at this point without new evidence.

JMO

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 02:02 AM
if the evidence was overwhelming, then the Rebecca threads here would not be this long.the evidence is simply not convincing - unless there is still evidence , the public has not seen - thats why news organizatons and rebecca's family wants or had this unsealed, e.g cellphone records etc

With all due respect, not all evidence was released to the public. The news organizations wanted documents unsealed because RN's attorney was implying a cover-up and influence peddling was involved. The unsealed documents help show that there was a very thorough investigation.

JMO

deanna82437
09-22-2011, 02:04 AM
The LA Times reporter also mentions that the investigator who initially suspected homicide changed his opinion after finding the journal, farewell note and only her DNA on the rope around her neck. None of that points to homicide, it points to a suicide.

JMO

Do you have a link to that article in the LA Times? TIA

Pach
09-22-2011, 02:04 AM
it is not just "mere" posters but 3rd party experts such as polygrapher, etc that are questioning the results. this was already pointed out in previous threads/posts. additionally, the newly released evidence just raises even more questions rather than satifying the doubters.


Just because you or others don't find the evidence overwhelming, doesn't mean that it wasn't. Four independent investigations found the suicide evidence overwhelming.

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 02:04 AM
Just because you or others don't find the evidence overwhelming, doesn't mean that it wasn't. Four independent investigations found the suicide evidence overwhelming.

And reporters can see for themselves with the unsealed documents that there was no rush to cover-up anything.

JMO

SophieRose
09-22-2011, 02:08 AM
the head injuries can support at least 2 theories- the going over the iron rail(staged suicide or voluntary suicide) or she was bonked on the head by a perp.

When was she bonked? How did this perp get the body to the balcony without leaving any footprints and why wasn't there dragging found on the carpet or the balcony?

CDS22
09-22-2011, 02:08 AM
it is not just "mere" posters but 3rd party experts such as polygrapher, etc that are questioning the results. this was already pointed out in previous threads/posts. additionally, the newly released evidence just raises even more questions rather than satifying the doubters.

They don't have all the evidence that the LE do. Also, it must be said that some of these naysayers are being paid by the Zahau family for their help.

Pach
09-22-2011, 02:08 AM
the problem is that the investigation does not appear thorough at all. what makes you say it was thorough ?? look at all the sub-threads that has spawned from the mother of all rebecca threads...., the only motivation i get from posting here is to find the truth, I get bothered when not every aspect is investigated. if it turns out its suicide then fine, if its a murder fine too, but in either case, the evidence has to be convincing that can stand the rigors of cross-examination.


With all due respect, not all evidence was released to the public. The news organizations wanted documents unsealed because RN's attorney was implying a cover-up and influence peddling was involved. The unsealed documents help show that there was a very thorough investigation.

JMO

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 02:12 AM
the head injuries can support at least 2 theories- the going over the iron rail(staged suicide or voluntary suicide) or she was bonked on the head by a perp.

There is no evidence a perp was in the room with her or on the balcony with her, thus the conclusion that her death was suicide.

JMO

Pach
09-22-2011, 02:15 AM
I said "theories" for goodness sakes :floorlaugh: the so-called suicide is a theory, just as the bonking is a possible theory. as for the prints on the balcony, you need to backread the other threads where it was mentioned that there is another print that was not mentioned.

When was she bonked? How did this perp get the body to the balcony without leaving any footprints and why wasn't there dragging found on the carpet or the balcony?

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 02:17 AM
the problem is that the investigation does not appear thorough at all. what makes you say it was thorough ?? look at all the sub-threads that has spawned from the mother of all rebecca threads...., the only motivation i get from posting here is to find the truth, I get bothered when not every aspect is investigated. if it turns out its suicide then fine, if its a murder fine too, but in either case, the evidence has to be convincing that can stand the rigors of cross-examination.

I believe the investigation was thorough and complete. There are only opinions that every aspect was not investigated but no proof to support those opinions. LE has no reason to lie about it or cover it up. I get bothered when LE is bashed and accused of corruption when there is no evidence to support it.

JMO

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 02:19 AM
I said "theories" for goodness sakes :floorlaugh: the so-called suicide is a theory, just as the bonking is a possible theory. as for the prints on the balcony, you need to backread the other threads where it was mentioned that there is another print that was not mentioned.

According to the ME, suicide isn't just a theory, it is his ruling in manner of death.

JMO

Pach
09-22-2011, 02:21 AM
the evidence found can point to a suicide but it was not convincing enough to rule out murder or a staged suicide thats why I feel this case should have been declared "undetermined"



There is no evidence a perp was in the room with her or on the balcony with her, thus the conclusion that her death was suicide.

JMO

Pach
09-22-2011, 02:23 AM
it is to me just a matter of semantics, they should have declared it "undetermined" cause since the evidence is not convincing.

here's a quote from a newspaper:
Some prominent forensic pathologists have come forward to offer their services to discredit the San Diego ME's findings, and support a petition to re-open the investigation, and reverse the initial findings.

One noted pathologist, Cyril Wecht, in speaking to KFMB-TV, saw a great deal of questions which need to be further explored. Some of his remarks have been transcribed from an audio feed, and given below in bold print.

"I see no reason why she should have laceration of the scalp or fracture of the calvaria (skullcap) enough to produce hemorrhages, clearly indicative of some form of blunt force trauma. Her head would not have struck anything to produce that. There are also unexplained abrasions, scratches, and contusions of her legs and hands.

For someone to say that there is no evidence of a struggle is not correct. As to the tape marks on her calf, I don't have an explanation for that. Why would you bind your feet? Binding one's hands is not a sophisticated piece of knowledge. People don't think about it, or know about it. How would she know that she would want to bind her hands.

When you put all of this together, it is bothersome. As a medical examiner, in my opinion, the manner of death should have been left as undetermined. Sometimes we can't be sure because more investigation has to be conducted. I would not have been in a big hurry to sign this out as a suicide. I would like to ask these people when have they ever seen a suicide like this?"


According to the ME, suicide isn't just a theory, it is his ruling in manner of death.

JMO

CDS22
09-22-2011, 02:34 AM
it is to me just a matter of semantics, they should have declared it "undetermined" cause since the evidence is not convincing.

here's a quote from a newspaper:
Some prominent forensic pathologists have come forward to offer their services to discredit the San Diego ME's findings, and support a petition to re-open the investigation, and reverse the initial findings.

One noted pathologist, Cyril Wecht, in speaking to KFMB-TV, saw a great deal of questions which need to be further explored. Some of his remarks have been transcribed from an audio feed, and given below in bold print.

"I see no reason why she should have laceration of the scalp or fracture of the calvaria (skullcap) enough to produce hemorrhages, clearly indicative of some form of blunt force trauma. Her head would not have struck anything to produce that. There are also unexplained abrasions, scratches, and contusions of her legs and hands.

For someone to say that there is no evidence of a struggle is not correct. As to the tape marks on her calf, I don't have an explanation for that. Why would you bind your feet? Binding one's hands is not a sophisticated piece of knowledge. People don't think about it, or know about it. How would she know that she would want to bind her hands.

When you put all of this together, it is bothersome. As a medical examiner, in my opinion, the manner of death should have been left as undetermined. Sometimes we can't be sure because more investigation has to be conducted. I would not have been in a big hurry to sign this out as a suicide. I would like to ask these people when have they ever seen a suicide like this?"


Cyril Wecht has been paid for his opinion.

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 02:36 AM
the evidence found can point to a suicide but it was not convincing enough to rule out murder or a staged suicide thats why I feel this case should have been declared "undetermined"

Okay but the decision has been made and neither LE nor ME agrees with you. The ME has made it clear he is comfortable with his decision and he's also defended it. He has no reason to change it to undetermined at this point.

JMO

Rhyme & Reason
09-22-2011, 02:37 AM
It has nothing to do with whether or not it can be accomplished easily or not, now if I were to tie my own hands up and not being a boater I wouldn't think to tie my hands up in that fashion. imo

Neither would I.

Money Girl
09-22-2011, 07:45 AM
Cyril Wecht has been paid for his opinion.

What makes you think he has been "paid for his opinion"? Link please.

rosemary
09-22-2011, 10:05 AM
According to Bremner, investigators were aware of the neighbor who apparently heard someone screaming from the mansion at 11:30pm, right before Jonah sent the voice mail that according to the LE prompted Rebecca to commit suicide.


Bremner also says she found a neighbor who heard a woman screaming from the mansion at 11:30, more than an hour before investigators believe Zahau checked her voicemail.
Bremner says that could mean Zahau died much sooner than investigators believe and she is now trying to get the cellphone so it can be examined by a forensic expert.
San Diego County Sheriff's spokesperson Lt. Larry Nesbit said investigators will re-examine Zahau's cellphone.
"It's amazing to see how much information there is out there about this tragic death and clearly it's not a suicide, Bremner said."
Bremner says investigators are aware of that neighbor who says she heard the screaming, but it's unclear if it made any difference in their investigation.
Source: Attorney: Zahau Death Might Not Be Suicide | NBC San Diego
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Details-In-Mansion-Death-Revealed-130329173.html

rosemary
09-22-2011, 10:10 AM
some more info (apologies if this has been posted already):


An attorney for Rebecca Zahau's family has answered the call for a state review of the investigation into her death, by saying they want nothing less than a full-fledged new inquiry.

Jonah Shacknai, Zahau's boyfriend, asked state Attorney General Kamala Harris Monday to “evaluate” findings by the San Diego County Sheriff's Department and Coronado police in the deaths of Zahau, 32, and his son Max, 6, who died within days of each other in July.

Investigators declared Zahau's death a suicide by hanging, and Max's, an accidental fall.

Seattle attorney Anne Bremner countered Wednesday by asking Harris to conduct an independent probe, and accept input from Bremner's investigators and at least 10 experts. She said the team is prepared “to challenge the finding of suicide.”

“We also have new compelling evidence to be investigated and new critical witnesses to be interviewed,” Bremner wrote.

Zahau's family has maintained that she did not kill herself and detectives failed to explore other possibilities. Up until this point, they had been pressing for authorities to re-open the case, not for an independent investigation.

http://coronado.patch.com/articles/zahaus-family-seeks-new-inquiry-from-state

kathyn2
09-22-2011, 10:49 AM
There is no tide towards suicide. Just in your mind. I think 90% of people on all sorts of forums believe she was murdered. I am praying that this case is reopened and the perpetrator(s) are brought to judgement. This was no suicide. The Police Dept needs to go back to school.





And the tide turns toward suicide. Without new evidence, I now doubt LE will re-open the suicide investigation.

JMO

kathyn2
09-22-2011, 10:56 AM
None of that points to suicide. Only in your mind. What farewell note? That note on the door was an ominous message from the killer, not a suicide note. The murderer probably wore gloves hence no fingerprints on the rope. In fact, why weren't Adam S's on there since he cut her down? hmmmm What did the journal say that proved she wanted to kill herself??? Link please? Adam S. failed the polygraph but they are dismissing that? Why? There is no proof whatsoever that she committed suicide. No proof at all she would even know how to commit such an elaborate act. Lots of PR folks over here from the S. family is what I do see. Never seen that on this forum before.



The LA Times reporter also mentions that the investigator who initially suspected homicide changed his opinion after finding the journal, farewell note and only her DNA on the rope around her neck. None of that points to homicide, it points to a suicide.

JMO

steff13
09-22-2011, 11:01 AM
I believe the investigation was thorough and complete. There are only opinions that every aspect was not investigated but no proof to support those opinions. LE has no reason to lie about it or cover it up. I get bothered when LE is bashed and accused of corruption when there is no evidence to support it.

JMO

Here is some information as to how "complete," the investigation was:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/22/rebecca-zahau-case-a-case-of-assumptions-and-factoids/#more-7997

*Note: this is my first time adding a link, so I apologize in advance if I did it incorrectly*

Pach
09-22-2011, 11:06 AM
this is so sad. a woman was screaming in the mansion.....and this was disregarded as evidence ? my goodness, what is going on ?


According to Bremner, investigators were aware of the neighbor who apparently heard someone screaming from the mansion at 11:30pm, right before Jonah sent the voice mail that according to the LE prompted Rebecca to commit suicide.


Source: Attorney: Zahau Death Might Not Be Suicide | NBC San Diego
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Details-In-Mansion-Death-Revealed-130329173.html

jjenny
09-22-2011, 11:15 AM
this is so sad. a woman was screaming in the mansion.....and this was disregarded as evidence ? my goodness, what is going on ?

From what we are told, police have decided very early on this was a suicide. And I bet from that time forward they worked to prove that. Claims that there were screams coming from the mansion doesn't exactly prove suicide, does it? Doesn't really fit with an iron-clad suicide story, does it?

kathyn2
09-22-2011, 11:16 AM
This link is terrific and it shows the shoddy work that LE did here. I am ashamed that I live in a city with such a LE force. I guess they think if you are rich or come from a rich family that you don't need to investigate said family.



Here is some information as to how "complete," the investigation was:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/22/rebecca-zahau-case-a-case-of-assumptions-and-factoids/#more-7997

*Note: this is my first time adding a link, so I apologize in advance if I did it incorrectly*

kathyn2
09-22-2011, 11:54 AM
I am curious about the neighbor hearing someone screaming around 11:30pm. Why was this dismissed by LE??? Who was at that party? Who had the party? Why was there a party? When did the people leave the party? Was the screaming after the party? Who would party when their child is in critical condition or allow such a party?? Was RZ at the party? What was her demeanor? Did LE talk to everyone at the party to see if she was there and what her demeanor was? Were people at this party mean to her? Say nasty things to her? Why did RZ take her dog to a boarding place?? Was JS mad at the dog for some reason? Did he threaten her about the dog? Who takes a dog to board when you are home? Did LE ask about the dog? Was it RZ's dog? Why did RZ's sister said that she was going to take JS clothing and food but instead he claims he came home for clothing? When did he come home? Did they question him about that? Did he talk to RZ? What kind of contact did RZ have with AS that night? He was the only one there. Was he investigated beyond this lie detector test that was inconclusive, ie, he failed? Why wasn't his phone records checked and his room and maybe even where he lives? Why did he show up there? Why wasn't he at the hospital for support of his brother and instead partying at the mansion? This investigation was so shoddy it literally turns my stomach.

Pach
09-22-2011, 01:11 PM
to fit the screams in the suicide story, they will probably say, she screamed before hanging herself :floorlaugh:

stilettos
09-22-2011, 01:47 PM
to fit the screams in the suicide story, they will probably say, she screamed before hanging herself :floorlaugh:

:crazy:Yes, I am waiting for the spin.

SunnieRN
09-22-2011, 02:10 PM
They don't have all the evidence that the LE do. Also, it must be said that some of these naysayers are being paid by the Zahau family for their help.

Isn't the evidence what the Zahau family is requesting?

Link to the naysayers being paid by the Zahau family please. Everyone working for the family has been known to do pro bono work if they feel it is a worthy case. You keep stating that they are being paid, no imo, no links to back it up. Therefore, no proof of that.

4Jacy
09-22-2011, 02:11 PM
Cyril Wecht has been paid for his opinion.


And so has LE, the Sheriff's office, and the Judge. How about that!!

SunnieRN
09-22-2011, 02:13 PM
Every single day, this case reminds me more and more of the JonBenet case. A case where money, politics and a poor DA's office (in this case, the sheriff dept) followed a pattern of dismissing evidence as it saw fit.

stilettos
09-22-2011, 02:17 PM
There is a lot of vitriol seemingly bound up in this case. Why the need for it? All that is being asked is for answers for both families and their dead loved ones. It seems that there is an agenda driven by anger....where does that come from? Don't both the family of MS and the family of RZ deserve equal justice? Does money, power and position place the scales of Lady Justice a-tilting?

4Jacy
09-22-2011, 02:19 PM
Every single day, this case reminds me more and more of the JonBenet case. A case where money, politics and a poor DA's office (in this case, the sheriff dept) followed a pattern of dismissing evidence as it saw fit.

Sunnie, the Ramsey case was the most frustrating case I'd ever followed. And you are so right about the parallels in this case. I hope Anne Bremmer can dig up enough evidence so that this suicide theory can be blown wide open, and the guilty party can be held accountable.

CDS22
09-22-2011, 02:22 PM
And so has LE, the Sheriff's office, and the Judge. How about that!!

They are paid to be impartial. Big difference.

4Jacy
09-22-2011, 02:38 PM
They are paid to be impartial. Big difference.

First of all we don't even know if Cyril W. is doing this pro bono or being paid. He may have just been asked about the case and gave his opinion. That being said, why would Cyril lie?

CDS22
09-22-2011, 02:47 PM
First of all we don't even know if Cyril W. is doing this pro bono or being paid. He may have just been asked about the case and gave his opinion. That being said, why would Cyril lie?

Cyril has been paid.


The Zahau's family attorney Anne Bremner, who said that the case should be reopened, hired renowned forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril Wecht to review Rebecca Zahau's autopsy report.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mansion-deaths-jonah-shacknai-files-letter-investigation-rebecca/story?id=14562097&page=2

That doesn't mean he's lied, it just means he may not be impartial since he's representing one side only. Also, note he doesn't say that it definitely WASN'T suicide:


"I'm not saying this is a homicide," Wecht told the New York Daily News. "I don't want to be premature or make wild criticisms"

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/health/questions-raised-rebecca-zahaus-suicide

kathyn2
09-22-2011, 02:50 PM
CDS22 It COULD be suicide BUT most likely not. And there are alot of things that point that it wasn't but law enforcement did not investigate the case thoroughly so who knows? They left ALOT out and ignored alot. Including an inconclusive polygraph from the only person known to be near RZ right before she died. LE should investigate til the public is satified. At least most of the public. To have the huge majority believing its murder sure shows a problem here. Again I state there are alot of PR folks from the S family around...

CDS22
09-22-2011, 02:55 PM
CDS22 It COULD be suicide BUT most likely not. And there are alot of things that point that it wasn't but law enforcement did not investigate the case thoroughly so who knows? They left ALOT out and ignored alot. Including an inconclusive polygraph from the only person known to be near RZ right before she died. LE should investigate til the public is satified. At least most of the public. To have the huge majority believing its murder sure shows a problem here. Again I state there are alot of PR folks from the S family around...

You might want to come over to the Max death thread. I just posted a quote from a doctor at Rady's who thinks Max was suffocated before his "fall".

kathyn2
09-22-2011, 03:01 PM
Just another instance of LE NOT doing their job then! Maybe that weird quote on the bedroom door had to do with someone from the family choking the kid and RZ not saying anything to LE about it. Who knows?? All I know is the whole story on all sides is hinky and needs investigating by decent LE that has no agenda and doesn't care about someone's $$$



You might want to come over to the Max death thread. I just posted a quote from a doctor at Rady's who thinks Max was suffocated before his "fall".

CDS22
09-22-2011, 03:09 PM
Just another instance of LE NOT doing their job then! Maybe that weird quote on the bedroom door had to do with someone from the family choking the kid and RZ not saying anything to LE about it. Who knows?? All I know is the whole story on all sides is hinky and needs investigating by decent LE that has no agenda and doesn't care about someone's $$$

He wasn't suffocated when he was with family. He was suffocated when he was with Rebecca. IMO

steff13
09-22-2011, 03:25 PM
He wasn't suffocated when he was with family. He was suffocated when he was with Rebecca. IMO

Or perhaps not at all.

CDS22
09-22-2011, 03:27 PM
Or perhaps not at all.

The doctor thinks he was. It's linked.

cluciano63
09-22-2011, 03:28 PM
Sunnie, the Ramsey case was the most frustrating case I'd ever followed. And you are so right about the parallels in this case. I hope Anne Bremmer can dig up enough evidence so that this suicide theory can be blown wide open, and the guilty party can be held accountable.

Assuming that this was in fact a murder...of course the guilty person should be held accountable. JMO

SunnieRN
09-22-2011, 03:56 PM
Here is some information as to how "complete," the investigation was:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/22/rebecca-zahau-case-a-case-of-assumptions-and-factoids/#more-7997

*Note: this is my first time adding a link, so I apologize in advance if I did it incorrectly*

snip:

Let’s look at the factoids that were presented as facts and have now been made manifest to have not been such:

Jonah was at Max’s bedside when Rebecca’s body was found.
Jonah was at Max’s bedside when Rebecca died.
Adam passed a polygraph.
Rebecca was not at the hospital after Max’s accident.
There was a loud party at the mansion the night/morning of Rebecca’s death.
Since those have been rendered false (in some degree or another) we at least can’t be kerflunkled by those factoids anymore.

Kind of sums the past couple of days nicely, I would say!!



Cyril has been paid.




http://abcnews.go.com/US/mansion-deaths-jonah-shacknai-files-letter-investigation-rebecca/story?id=14562097&page=2

That doesn't mean he's lied, it just means he may not be impartial since he's representing one side only. Also, note he doesn't say that it definitely WASN'T suicide:



http://www.opposingviews.com/i/health/questions-raised-rebecca-zahaus-suicide


There is NO proof that Dr. Wecht is being paid. Bremner was hired, she hired Wecht. There has been no discussion of money, if any, being paid to either of these people.

And yes, you are correct. Law enforcement is supposed to be impartial, but look at the facts posted above. They obviously have not been in this case.

branwynbreeze
09-22-2011, 03:59 PM
You might want to come over to the Max death thread. I just posted a quote from a doctor at Rady's who thinks Max was suffocated before his "fall".

It true, LE dropped ball in both cases.

steff13
09-22-2011, 06:43 PM
The doctor thinks he was. It's linked.

I believe the link said the doctor thought that at first. What does he think now?

jjenny
09-22-2011, 07:30 PM
I believe the link said the doctor thought that at first. What does he think now?

The doctor based his opinion on visible injuries. He did not know about the extensive spinal cord damage, which is what caused Max to stop breathing.

Rhyme & Reason
09-22-2011, 08:47 PM
Just because you or others don't find the evidence overwhelming, doesn't mean that it wasn't. Four independent investigations found the suicide evidence overwhelming.

Just because you or others do find the evidence overwhelming, doesn't mean that it was.

SophieRose
09-22-2011, 08:56 PM
snip:
There is NO proof that Dr. Wecht is being paid. Bremner was hired, she hired Wecht. There has been no discussion of money, if any, being paid to either of these people.

And yes, you are correct. Law enforcement is supposed to be impartial, but look at the facts posted above. They obviously have not been in this case.

Whether Dr. Wecht is being paid or not, doesn't really matter, he has identified himself as working for Bremner and the family, therefore I doubt they would publish or let him go on tv if his opinion didn't support the family. Do you know if he had the opinion before he was hired?

Rhyme & Reason
09-22-2011, 08:58 PM
Cyril Wecht has been paid for his opinion.

Link please!

time
09-22-2011, 09:01 PM
Whether Dr. Wecht is being paid or not, doesn't really matter, he has identified himself as working for Bremner and the family, therefore I doubt they would publish or let him go on tv if his opinion didn't support the family. Do you know if he had the opinion before he was hired?

No, it doesn't matter if he is paid or pro bono. When someone works pro bono they basically should have a contract even if not getting paid.

The idea that experts working for LE or the prosecutor would not have the same bias is silly, they do.

GutInstinct
09-22-2011, 09:04 PM
What about the brother that was supposedly living in the guest house?

SophieRose
09-22-2011, 09:13 PM
No, it doesn't matter if he is paid or pro bono. When someone works pro bono they basically should have a contract even if not getting paid.

The idea that experts working for LE or the prosecutor would not have the same bias is silly, they do.

I agree but it's usually during the trial. Psychiatrist Park Dietz has been hired by both the prosecution and the defense as a witness, as have most of these experts.

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 09:13 PM
The doctor thinks he was. It's linked.

The doctor's opinion was used to obtain a search warrant. Perhaps LE's interview of RZ is what triggered her suicide? Her autopsy report doesn't mention when LE interviewed her to determine who was in the house and where she was.


JMO

deanna82437
09-22-2011, 09:15 PM
What's the name of this forum again? I don't see a lot of sleuthing going on here.
Opinions are fine but when they are repeated ad nauseum, it gets old real fast. JMO

Sorry for the OT .. back to the subject at hand.

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 09:18 PM
Whether Dr. Wecht is being paid or not, doesn't really matter, he has identified himself as working for Bremner and the family, therefore I doubt they would publish or let him go on tv if his opinion didn't support the family. Do you know if he had the opinion before he was hired?

The opinion he expressed was pretty broad and he left open the possibility of suicide so I'm hoping the family didn't actually pay him.

JMO

Rhyme & Reason
09-22-2011, 09:23 PM
Cyril has been paid.



http://abcnews.go.com/US/mansion-deaths-jonah-shacknai-files-letter-investigation-rebecca/story?id=14562097&page=2

That doesn't mean he's lied, it just means he may not be impartial since he's representing one side only. Also, note he doesn't say that it definitely WASN'T suicide:



http://www.opposingviews.com/i/health/questions-raised-rebecca-zahaus-suicide

This is just ridiculous. Please provide a link to the fact that Dr. Wecht has been paid.

4Jacy
09-22-2011, 09:28 PM
What about the brother that was supposedly living in the guest house?

Hi Gut, and WELCOME!!! Yes, we have alot of questions about him also. Good thought.

oceanblueeyes
09-22-2011, 09:36 PM
You might want to come over to the Max death thread. I just posted a quote from a doctor at Rady's who thinks Max was suffocated before his "fall".

OMG, are you serious??? I will have to make sure I read that.

I have no problems with the investigation on BOTH deaths being reopened. In fact I think they should be since it seems both families have questions.

While Rebecca's death is puzzling ...Max's death is equally as puzzling to me. Something just isn't right about how that precious little boy died, imo.