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oceanblueeyes
09-20-2011, 09:01 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/mansion-deaths-jonah-shacknai-files-letter-investigation-rebecca/story?id=14562097


Sept. 20, 2011
Jonah Shacknai, the California millionaire whose son died in an accident and whose long-time girlfriend, Rebecca Zahau, died in a mysterious hanging, has asked the California attorney general to look into the investigation of their deaths.

Further investigation would be helpful in "bringing some clarity, dignity, and ultimately closure to the devastating deaths," Shacknai wrote in a letter sent to the attorney general Monday and obtained by ABC News.

CDS22
09-20-2011, 09:10 AM
This was very good of him to do.

IWannaKnow
09-20-2011, 09:35 AM
I am very happy to read this.

Cortne
09-20-2011, 09:36 AM
I am now convinced this is a must. Need more answers.

Prayers for all involved.

believe09
09-20-2011, 09:37 AM
I dont blame him. He is being trashed everywhere.

jjenny
09-20-2011, 09:42 AM
Well that one is a shocker. I thought he was satisfied with the results. Sheriff even had a message from him on their website.

believe09
09-20-2011, 09:46 AM
Well that one is a shocker. I thought he was satisfied with the results. Sheriff even had a message from him on their website.

He may still be, but he may hope that it satifies the general public.

rosemary
09-20-2011, 09:59 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/mansion-deaths-jonah-shacknai-files-letter-investigation-rebecca/story?id=14562097


Sept. 20, 2011
Jonah Shacknai, the California millionaire whose son died in an accident and whose long-time girlfriend, Rebecca Zahau, died in a mysterious hanging, has asked the California attorney general to look into the investigation of their deaths.

Further investigation would be helpful in "bringing some clarity, dignity, and ultimately closure to the devastating deaths," Shacknai wrote in a letter sent to the attorney general Monday and obtained by ABC News.

I think it's really is really good of him to do that. I agree that both deaths should be investigated again, there are many unanswered questions not only in Rebecca's suicide, but also in Max's accident. Both families have suffered from the loss of their loved ones, I hope they can learn to work together to get the answers that they seek. The LE needs to listen to the victims families, I don't think both sides were given adequate explanations on how and why their loved ones died.

Peaceful
09-20-2011, 10:07 AM
Finally. Thank you Jonah.

IWannaKnow
09-20-2011, 10:19 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/page/letter-jonah-shacknai-california-attorney-general-14563347

deanna82437
09-20-2011, 10:21 AM
It is nice of him to request it be re-opened, but color me a skeptic, I believe it will be on his terms. I would rather see an 'outside' investigative team be used, rather than the CA AG's office.

gitana1
09-20-2011, 11:05 AM
I dont blame him. He is being trashed everywhere.

I agree. If I were him and innocent, I'd ask for the same thing.


It is nice of him to request it be re-opened, but color me a skeptic, I believe it will be on his terms. I would rather see an 'outside' investigative team be used, rather than the CA AG's office.

I don't see any evidence that the CA AG's office is corrupt. It's possible they were star struck by a gazillionare, which happens a lot, but I don't yet see corruption, so as long as they are diligent and answer the public's questions, I will be satisfied.

gitana1
09-20-2011, 11:10 AM
Well, hmmm. I just read the letter from Shacknai. Reading between the lines, he is not really asking that the investigation be reopened. He is asking that LE's protocols and investigative techniques, their methods and conclusions, be evaluated. That is a little bit different.

For those who may feel he had something to do with it, his letter may seem quite self-serving. For those who don't, it may seem that, while he supports the findings, he wants their validity proven to a skeptical public.

gitana1
09-20-2011, 11:16 AM
Here's the link Salem. Jonah has asked the California Attorney General to look into both deaths.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mansion-deaths-jonah-shacknai-files-letter-investigation-rebecca/story?id=14562097

I read his letter to the AG. Using my lawyer hat, it does not appear that he is requesting that the case be reopened. It appears that he is requesting that their investigative protocols and resultant conclusions be evaluated. There is a difference.

He ends the letter stating that after such an evaluation, should the AG determine further investigation is needed, he would back that. But his letter does not demand that the cases be reopened. In fact, he is quite clear that he supports the findings.

time
09-20-2011, 11:18 AM
Well, hmmm. I just read the letter from Shacknai. Reading between the lines, he is not really asking that the investigation be reopened. He is asking that LE's protocols and investigative techniques, their methods and conclusions, be evaluated. That is a little bit different.

For those who may feel he had something to do with it, his letter may seem quite self-serving. For those who don't, it may seem that, while he supports the findings, he wants their validity proven to a skeptical public.


Yeah, color me skeptical. He probably had to do something, especially with word that he immediately deemed Rebecca's death a suicide and that he was then happy with an investigation with so many loopholes and unanswered questions.

In my opinion, Jonah never figured it would get this much media attention nor that the Zahau family would be able to muster the resources to mount any legal challenge. He thought it would just go away. I suspect this latest move is just for show more than anything. And, again, he hopes it will fade. I also suspect he has already talked with the SDSD about making this move to take heat off of all parties.

Rhyme & Reason
09-20-2011, 11:27 AM
I read his letter to the AG. Using my lawyer hat, it does not appear that he is requesting that the case be reopened. It appears that he is requesting that their investigative protocols and resultant conclusions be evaluated. There is a difference.

He ends the letter stating that after such an evaluation, should the AG determine further investigation is needed, he would back that. But his letter does not demand that the cases be reopened. In fact, he is quite clear that he supports the findings.

Thank you gitana1, I very much respect your insight and observations.

deanna82437
09-20-2011, 11:33 AM
Yeah, color me skeptical. He probably had to do something, especially with word that he immediately deemed Rebecca's death a suicide and that he was then happy with an investigation with so many loopholes and unanswered questions.

In my opinion, Jonah never figured it would get this much media attention nor that the Zahau family would be able to muster the resources to mount any legal challenge. He thought it would just go away. I suspect this latest move is just for show more than anything. And, again, he hopes it will fade. I also suspect he has already talked with the SDSD about making this move to take heat off of all parties.

Quite possibly he had acquired the knowledge that many other letters from the general public were also being sent to the AG's office with the same request. JMO

CDS22
09-20-2011, 11:38 AM
Yeah, color me skeptical. He probably had to do something, especially with word that he immediately deemed Rebecca's death a suicide and that he was then happy with an investigation with so many loopholes and unanswered questions.

In my opinion, Jonah never figured it would get this much media attention nor that the Zahau family would be able to muster the resources to mount any legal challenge. He thought it would just go away. I suspect this latest move is just for show more than anything. And, again, he hopes it will fade. I also suspect he has already talked with the SDSD about making this move to take heat off of all parties.

Her family is not without resources. Her father was a big figure in Burmese politics, and their family members are working. They should easily be able to come up with funds to launch a private investigation. Like I've said before, they have hired Cyril Wecht, who does not come cheap. I think they were more about courting public opinion before going for a civil suit which would mean lots of money, but that's JUST MY OPINION.

CDS22
09-20-2011, 11:40 AM
I read his letter to the AG. Using my lawyer hat, it does not appear that he is requesting that the case be reopened. It appears that he is requesting that their investigative protocols and resultant conclusions be evaluated. There is a difference.

He ends the letter stating that after such an evaluation, should the AG determine further investigation is needed, he would back that. But his letter does not demand that the cases be reopened. In fact, he is quite clear that he supports the findings.

What would be the difference between a case being re-opened and being re-evaluated? Would it be the difference between an entire new team looking into this?

steff13
09-20-2011, 11:47 AM
What would be the difference between a case being re-opened and being re-evaluated? Would it be the difference between an entire new team looking into this?

My thinking is that he is requesting that someone evaluate the investigative processes that were utilized in this case, not to re-evaluate the information gleaned in the investigation itself. That's my interpretation.

CDS22
09-20-2011, 12:02 PM
My thinking is that he is requesting that someone evaluate the investigative processes that were utilized in this case, not to re-evaluate the information gleaned in the investigation itself. That's my interpretation.

Thanks. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

gitana1
09-20-2011, 12:21 PM
What would be the difference between a case being re-opened and being re-evaluated? Would it be the difference between an entire new team looking into this?
There's a huge difference. If the case was reopened, new conclusions could be drawn. What JS wants is merely for the current investigative findings to be validated or not. If they were found to be questionable based on protocols used, the AG could then determine whether or not to reopen the investigation.

defense101
09-20-2011, 12:22 PM
What would be the difference between a case being re-opened and being re-evaluated? Would it be the difference between an entire new team looking into this? I think the difference is a whether a completely new investigation to be conducted with different eyes as opposed to going over the techniques and information from the first investigation. imo

Curious Me
09-20-2011, 12:41 PM
Good for JS, but now the Public wants some real answers. If Rebecca Zahau was murdered, then someone needs to be arrested.

mrsu
09-20-2011, 12:49 PM
I never thought he was involved anyway. Good for him.

Pach
09-20-2011, 12:50 PM
big step in the right direction. Bravo to JS for stepping up !!!
hope this will eventually bring closure for everyone once and if the investigation is re-opened.

Brit
09-20-2011, 12:51 PM
Her family is not without resources. Her father was a big figure in Burmese politics, and their family members are working. They should easily be able to come up with funds to launch a private investigation. Like I've said before, they have hired Cyril Wecht, who does not come cheap. I think they were more about courting public opinion before going for a civil suit which would mean lots of money, but that's JUST MY OPINION.

Not so sure if I would believe that they could "easily" come up with funds for this type of investigation. I am no pro, and have no idea about how expensive this could be, but I've read articles about how the family had to flea Burma for religious persecution and I wouldn't imagine that being royalty from a tribe in Burma would mean that the family is well off. It seems to me that they are trying to raise funds so that they can pay for pro's such as Cyril wecht, which I believe is what they have stated on their website. I think that the average person would have problems raising these funds....

Brit
09-20-2011, 12:54 PM
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_18936208?nclick_check=1


Shacknai says he has no reason to doubt findings by authorities in San Diego County that Zahau killed herself at his Coronado mansion two days after Shacknai's 6-year-old son accidentally fell down while under her watch. Max Shacknai died days later.

CDS22
09-20-2011, 12:58 PM
Not so sure if I would believe that they could "easily" come up with funds for this type of investigation. I am no pro, and have no idea about how expensive this could be, but I've read articles about how the family had to flea Burma for religious persecution and I wouldn't imagine that being royalty from a tribe in Burma would mean that the family is well off. It seems to me that they are trying to raise funds so that they can pay for pro's such as Cyril wecht, which I believe is what they have stated on their website. I think that the average person would have problems raising these funds....

If they are as well respected, as they claim, and every Burmese immigrant gave ten bucks, they'd be able to easily pull this off. Not to mention that this is a large family with all but the youngest working. Heck, on my salary alone I could pull this off and I'm not Burmese royatly.

CDS22
09-20-2011, 12:59 PM
There's a huge difference. If the case was reopened, new conclusions could be drawn. What JS wants is merely for the current investigative findings to be validated or not. If they were found to be questionable based on protocols used, the AG could then determine whether or not to reopen the investigation.

Thank you for your response.

Would only protocols come into question, or the evidence itself?

time
09-20-2011, 01:00 PM
If they are as well respected, as they claim, and every Burmese immigrant gave ten bucks, they'd be able to easily pull this off. Not to mention that this is a large family with all but the youngest working. Heck, on my salary alone I could pull this off and I'm not Burmese royatly.


An investigation like this would cost hundreds of thousands if not more. so I disagree with you. Unfortunately, justice IS sometimes for the rich.

elementry
09-20-2011, 01:07 PM
Well, hmmm. I just read the letter from Shacknai. Reading between the lines, he is not really asking that the investigation be reopened. He is asking that LE's protocols and investigative techniques, their methods and conclusions, be evaluated. That is a little bit different.

For those who may feel he had something to do with it, his letter may seem quite self-serving. For those who don't, it may seem that, while he supports the findings, he wants their validity proven to a skeptical public.

He wants the "investigation" looked into, to satisfy the public. Sitrick must have seen this was not going away in its half-baked condition, so the best tack is to put JS out there as supporting a re-look at the investigation. It ought to re-open the door though to see how thorough LE's methods were. Hopefully there will be some sunlight finally after that abbreviated dog and pony show SD LE tried to pull. Interesting move though by Jonah, in any case.

time
09-20-2011, 01:07 PM
big step in the right direction. Bravo to JS for stepping up !!!
hope this will eventually bring closure for everyone once and if the investigation is re-opened.


Ok, call me a pessimist, but I think this is a ploy. I do hope it opens up the investigation, but if Jonah really wanted to help he'd ask them to make everything public like the search warrant and call for full cooperation with the Zahau family experts and full transparency - THAT is what he should be doing, not requesting for an evaluation of procedures and such which may show nothing.

Jonah should be requesting specific things we did not see such as full crime scene recreations, reanalysis of all evidence and a report on what was and wasn't investigated, advanced analyses on evidence (such as Rebecca's phone), and divulging any other pertinent information. Doing so, would tell me he is, in fact, interested in justice for Rebecca and honoring her family's concerns. He's not.

daisy.faithfull
09-20-2011, 01:11 PM
Yeah, color me skeptical. He probably had to do something, especially with word that he immediately deemed Rebecca's death a suicide and that he was then happy with an investigation with so many loopholes and unanswered questions.

In my opinion, Jonah never figured it would get this much media attention nor that the Zahau family would be able to muster the resources to mount any legal challenge. He thought it would just go away. I suspect this latest move is just for show more than anything. And, again, he hopes it will fade. I also suspect he has already talked with the SDSD about making this move to take heat off of all parties.

I have a difficult time believing that JS was surprised by the media attention after both his son and girlfriend die. Especially considering how Rebecca was found and all the questions surrounding her death... If someone wanted this tragedy to fly under the media's radar they sure went about it the wrong way.

KarenM
09-20-2011, 01:11 PM
JS requested a review of the investigation, not reopening of the case. These two are different. However, if the review of the investigation showed SDPD's investigation had serious problems, it opens the door for a case reopening.

JS did the right thing.

Lera213
09-20-2011, 01:13 PM
To me this stinks, a very good excuse for the police not to release the items to the family, then over time the evidence will be missing. Wanna bet?

Her family has some high prominent experts that want to look into it. If there is an investigation of any kind in this case that gives an excuse not to let one expert in, not to release any evidence and open the window for police to come up with a new and improved theory that will match better.

elementry
09-20-2011, 01:14 PM
There's a huge difference. If the case was reopened, new conclusions could be drawn. What JS wants is merely for the current investigative findings to be validated or not. If they were found to be questionable based on protocols used, the AG could then determine whether or not to reopen the investigation.

Even if the methods and thoroughness of SD LE's are found faulty, it's way too late to re-process the crime scene most likely. Once the lax work was done when the scene was hot, the primary disservice was effectuated. That was my concern from the get-go. I'd still like to see Gore and Co. chastised for subpar work, if indeed that was the case. So much evidence would have been lost though that it may just end up like the Jon Benet Ramsey mystery. Jonah's maybe trying to get in front of this and make the best of it.

deanna82437
09-20-2011, 01:14 PM
Ok, call me a pessimist, but I think this is a ploy. I do hope it opens up the investigation, but if Jonah really wanted to help he'd ask them to make everything public like the search warrant and call for full cooperation with the Zahau family experts and full transparency - THAT is what he should be doing, not requesting for an evaluation of procedures and such which may show nothing.

Jonah should be requesting specific things we did not see such as full crime scene recreations, reanalysis of all evidence and a report on what was and wasn't investigated, advanced analyses on evidence (such as Rebecca's phone), and divulging any other pertinent information. Doing so, would tell me he is, in fact, interested in justice for Rebecca and honoring her family's concerns. He's not.

Posted in another thread but fits here as well.

Judge Orders Some Coronado Death Search Warrants Unsealed
http://www.10news.com/news/29243040/detail.html?treets=sand&tid=26513569972813&tml=sand_break&tmi=sand_break_1_11010209202011&ts=H

stilettos
09-20-2011, 01:16 PM
http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_18936208?nclick_check=1


Shacknai says he has no reason to doubt findings by authorities in San Diego County that Zahau killed herself at his Coronado mansion two days after Shacknai's 6-year-old son accidentally fell down while under her watch. Max Shacknai died days later.

So he doesn't doubt the findings of suicide but wants the investigative "techniques" re-evaluated? That PR firm needs to prep him better. IMO, their efforts are failing.

Brit
09-20-2011, 01:19 PM
I have a difficult time believing that JS was surprised by the media attention after both his son and girlfriend die. Especially considering how Rebecca was found and all the questions surrounding her death... If someone wanted this tragedy to fly under the media's radar they sure went about it the wrong way.

I agree with you but also want to add that I think that he along with the le underestimated the fact that rz's family would have the resources to gain the professionals they have gotten to help them. These are immigrants from Burma and in my opinion maybe everybody thought that they would just go away. Jmo.

CDS22
09-20-2011, 01:26 PM
I agree with you but also want to add that I think that he along with the le underestimated the fact that rz's family would have the resources to gain the professionals they have gotten to help them. These are immigrants from Burma and in my opinion maybe everybody thought that they would just go away. Jmo.

They're not mere immigrants. They have political connections. Google Cheery Zahau. Like I said, Cyril Wecht doesn't come cheap.

SunnieRN
09-20-2011, 01:27 PM
If they are as well respected, as they claim, and every Burmese immigrant gave ten bucks, they'd be able to easily pull this off. Not to mention that this is a large family with all but the youngest working. Heck, on my salary alone I could pull this off and I'm not Burmese royatly.

I have no idea what type of empolyment you have, however if it is enough from your salary alone to initiate and carry out an investigation of the scope the Zahau's are trying to undertake, please send me information on what type of work you do, as I chose the wrong profession. Burmese refugees, whether working or not, do not have those type of funds unfortunately.

As for Jonah's letter, this is a small step toward what the Zahau family and the public, or I should say the majority of the public, supported by polls, want to see happen. I think this is also true for Dina, as she is making accusations that Max had been strangled before going over the stairwell.

In my opinion, not being a lawyer, but a parent and a grandparent, an aunt and a daughter, I would want hard and fast, down and dirty answers to BOTH accidents. I feel the Zahau family was not given the same briefing that Jonah was, unfortunately. I also have read statements that they were not informed of progress during the investigation, but had a short meeting with SDSO the day prior to the PC.

I pray that Jonah, his family, the Zahau's and the public, can all find peace in a discovery process. There are too many unanswered questions related to both deaths.

SunnieRN
09-20-2011, 01:30 PM
They're not mere immigrants. They have political connections. Google Cheery Zahau. Like I said, Cyril Wecht doesn't come cheap.

Not sure what you are insinuating here? Could you please explain this a little more? Thank you.

Brit
09-20-2011, 01:30 PM
They're not mere immigrants. They have political connections. Google Cheery Zahau. Like I said, Cyril Wecht doesn't come cheap.

I would love to see links that show these "connections"

CDS22
09-20-2011, 01:32 PM
I would love to see links that show these "connections"

Then Google Cheery Zahau. Look at the article with quotes from RZ's family and friends talking about just who RZ's father is. Humble immigrants they're not.

SunnieRN
09-20-2011, 01:34 PM
To me this stinks, a very good excuse for the police not to release the items to the family, then over time the evidence will be missing. Wanna bet?

Her family has some high prominent experts that want to look into it. If there is an investigation of any kind in this case that gives an excuse not to let one expert in, not to release any evidence and open the window for police to come up with a new and improved theory that will match better.

This would also prevent the family from having Rebecca's body exhumed, which with a closed investigation, would be allowed by family request.

deanna82437
09-20-2011, 01:34 PM
They're not mere immigrants. They have political connections. Google Cheery Zahau. Like I said, Cyril Wecht doesn't come cheap.

I have googled Cheery Zahau. I see no connection to RZ and family. Do you have access to other info that you can provide?

sdcali
09-20-2011, 01:34 PM
They're not mere immigrants. They have political connections. Google Cheery Zahau. Like I said, Cyril Wecht doesn't come cheap.

Do you know that Dr. Wecht is charging them?

Brit
09-20-2011, 01:35 PM
They're not mere immigrants. They have political connections. Google Cheery Zahau. Like I said, Cyril Wecht doesn't come cheap.

Burma - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Myanmar_long_form.svg" class="image"><img alt="Myanmar long form.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Myanmar_long_form.svg/235px-Myanmar_long_form.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/f/fb/Myanmar_long_form.svg/235px-Myanmar_long_form.svg.png


The country is one of the poorest nations in Southeast Asia, suffering from decades of stagnation, mismanagement and isolation. The lack of an educated workforce skilled in modern technology contributes to the growing problems of the economy.[125] The country lacks adequate infrastructure. Goods travel primarily across the Thai border, where most illegal drugs are exported and along the Irrawaddy River. Railways are old and rudimentary, with few repairs since their construction in the late 19th century.[126] Highways are normally unpaved, except in the major cities.[126] Energy shortages are common throughout the country including in Yangon.

Cortne
09-20-2011, 01:36 PM
Funny how no matter what some do its never enough to others.


JMO

SunnieRN
09-20-2011, 01:37 PM
Then Google Cheery Zahau. Look at the article with quotes from RZ's family and friends talking about just who RZ's father is. Humble immigrants they're not.

CD respectfully, just because someone is well connected (JS is well connected, check who his cousin is in political circle), does not mean the Zahau family has means or funds to carry out an investigation. I ask again, what are you insinuating cocerning the Zahau family?

stilettos
09-20-2011, 01:43 PM
I have no idea what type of empolyment you have, however if it is enough from your salary alone to initiate and carry out an investigation of the scope the Zahau's are trying to undertake, please send me information on what type of work you do, as I chose the wrong profession. Burmese refugees, whether working or not, do not have those type of funds unfortunately.

As for Jonah's letter, this is a small step toward what the Zahau family and the public, or I should say the majority of the public, supported by polls, want to see happen. I think this is also true for Dina, as she is making accusations that Max had been strangled before going over the stairwell.

In my opinion, not being a lawyer, but a parent and a grandparent, an aunt and a daughter, I would want hard and fast, down and dirty answers to BOTH accidents. I feel the Zahau family was not given the same briefing that Jonah was, unfortunately. I also have read statements that they were not informed of progress during the investigation, but had a short meeting with SDSO the day prior to the PC.

I pray that Jonah, his family, the Zahau's and the public, can all find peace in a discovery process. There are too many unanswered questions related to both deaths.

Well JS's income last year is documented and from the multi million dollars that he made...if he loved this woman..perhaps he could help with the funding.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2038558/Rebecca-Zahau-death-Frantic-phone-calls-Jonah-Shacknais-lover-hanged.html

This link shows his 1998 income at 17million...I willl find the link to last years income...I would imagine that the Zahou's income pales in comparison.

branwynbreeze
09-20-2011, 01:49 PM
This is so confusing. JS is calling for a review, that great, better than nothing. Didn't he have PIs on the case? What happened with that?

I'm betting DS has some team working on Maxie's behalf since it sounds as she's not convinced this was an accident.

Zahaus have people working on case, as well. I also think public grumbling and perhaps a civil suit in the making might have forced JS to publicly do something.

CalElliot
09-20-2011, 01:54 PM
They're not mere immigrants. They have political connections. Google Cheery Zahau. Like I said, Cyril Wecht doesn't come cheap.

How is "Cheery Zahau" related to Rebecca? Zahau is not an uncommon name. Link establishing relationship please.

KarenM
09-20-2011, 01:56 PM
This would also prevent the family from having Rebecca's body exhumed, which with a closed investigation, would be allowed by family request.

Why wouldn't Rebecca's family exhume the body now and have the autopsy done by Dr. Wecht? The case is now officially closed. And bodies don't stay the same forever.

KarenM
09-20-2011, 02:00 PM
Let me say this, if RZ was from a well connected family from Asia with power and means, she would have never dated a man 20 years older than her and had been divorced twice. People from those families have no less money than JS.

chasing.halos
09-20-2011, 02:01 PM
I'm betting DS has some team working on Maxie's behalf since it sounds as she's not convinced this was an accident.



sbm

YES, she does have a team working on what happened to Maxie.

chasing.halos
09-20-2011, 02:03 PM
IMHO, to me, this letter reads:

-Please clear my name as having anything to do with Rebecca's death.
-Please clear my family's name (including Adam and Dina) as having anything to do with Rebecca's death.

All totally IMHO.

SunnieRN
09-20-2011, 02:05 PM
Why wouldn't Rebecca's family exhume the body now and have the autopsy done by Dr. Wecht? The case is now officially closed. And bodies don't stay the same forever.

I am saying that if the attorney general looks into the case, I think her body would have to be exhumed by court order and not family request. More expensive, more steps, more time consuming. Less chance to get vital evidence.

oceanblueeyes
09-20-2011, 02:11 PM
It is nice of him to request it be re-opened, but color me a skeptic, I believe it will be on his terms. I would rather see an 'outside' investigative team be used, rather than the CA AG's office.

I think turning it over to the Attorney General's office shows he wasnt a complete untarnished investigation.

I am not skeptical at all nor surprised.

He has to have unanswered questions himself about both deaths. At least he didn't get a private lawyer and say he was going to have PIs investigate the deaths.

IMO

oceanblueeyes
09-20-2011, 02:13 PM
IMHO, to me, this letter reads:

-Please clear my name as having anything to do with Rebecca's death.
-Please clear my family's name (including Adam and Dina) as having anything to do with Rebecca's death.

All totally IMHO.

Well I sure can understand why he would want that.

He and the entire Shacknai family have been vilified with rampant speculations, imo.

imo

CDS22
09-20-2011, 02:15 PM
Let me say this, if RZ was from a well connected family from Asia with power and means, she would have never dated a man 20 years older than her and had been divorced twice. People from those families have no less money than JS.

So are you saying she was only with JS for his money, and inferring she is a golddigger? That doesn't sound too victim friendly.

oceanblueeyes
09-20-2011, 02:17 PM
This is so confusing. JS is calling for a review, that great, better than nothing. Didn't he have PIs on the case? What happened with that?

I'm betting DS has some team working on Maxie's behalf since it sounds as she's not convinced this was an accident.

Zahaus have people working on case, as well. I also think public grumbling and perhaps a civil suit in the making might have forced JS to publicly do something.

No I believe he hired private security because he had those very close to him losing their lives in bizarre ways.

I imagine it was in the back of his mind at that time that he may be the next struck.

IMO

stilettos
09-20-2011, 02:18 PM
sbm

YES, she does have a team working on what happened to Maxie.

That is wonderful. Perhaps she and Mr Shacknai could help the Zahou's with their investigation into what happened to Rebecca too? I mean, he supposedly loved her and Rebecca has been said to have loved MS...perhaps they can all come togther for their answers.

oceanblueeyes
09-20-2011, 02:19 PM
So are you saying she was only with JS for his money, and inferring she is a golddigger? That doesn't sound too victim friendly.

I actually don't even see the age difference when I look at Jonah and Rebecca's photo. It isn't like she was a spring chicken and he sure doesn't look like he has one foot in the grave either.

They looked like a very nice couple who were very much in love. I have no reason to think differently.

IMO

stilettos
09-20-2011, 02:20 PM
No I believe he hired private security because he had those very close to him losing their lives in bizarre ways.

I imagine it was in the back of his mind at that time that he may be the next struck.

IMO

Perhaps that is one area that needs looking into by LE...if Mr Shacknai is worried about who might be after him...maybe there is the first avenue of investigation. MOO

CDS22
09-20-2011, 02:21 PM
I actually don't even see the age difference when I look at Jonah and Rebecca's photo. It isn't like she was a spring chicken and he sure doesn't look like he has one foot in the grave either.

They looked like a very nice couple who were very much in love. I have no reason to think differently.

IMO

I agree that I don't see the age difference in their photos.

SunnieRN
09-20-2011, 02:23 PM
I think turning it over to the Attorney General's office shows he wasnt a complete untarnished investigation.

I am not skeptical at all nor surprised.

He has to have unanswered questions himself about both deaths. At least he didn't get a private lawyer and say he was going to have PIs investigate the deaths.

IMO

True, he hired a private lawyer to send cease and desist letters

time
09-20-2011, 02:24 PM
I am saying that if the attorney general looks into the case, I think her body would have to be exhumed by court order and not family request. More expensive, more steps, more time consuming. Less chance to get vital evidence.

I believe you are correct... I think this could tie up the evidence in some manner that would give them less access. Maybe the legal beagles on here would comment.

stilettos
09-20-2011, 02:24 PM
I think turning it over to the Attorney General's office shows he wasnt a complete untarnished investigation.

I am not skeptical at all nor surprised.

He has to have unanswered questions himself about both deaths. At least he didn't get a private lawyer and say he was going to have PIs investigate the deaths.

IMO

No...he hired a PR firm.

oceanblueeyes
09-20-2011, 02:25 PM
Perhaps that is one area that needs looking into by LE...if Mr Shacknai is worried about who might be after him...maybe there is the first avenue of investigation. MOO

The only problem that would pose is that would mean Rebecca lied and Max' death wasnt an accident. I seriously doubt Rebecca would cover for anyone that was trying to do Jonah's children harm.

If Jonah thought it could have been someone upset with him then he would not believe the known circumstances of Max' death either.

I think the AG should start at the beginning of Max's bizarre and unexplainable accident and go from there.

oceanblueeyes
09-20-2011, 02:27 PM
No...he hired a PR firm.

Has the PR firm spoken out. They usually will publicly. I dont remember seeing them make any statements.

IMO

chasing.halos
09-20-2011, 02:28 PM
That is wonderful. Perhaps she and Mr Shacknai could help the Zahou's with their investigation into what happened to Rebecca too? I mean, he supposedly loved her and Rebecca has been said to have loved MS...perhaps they can all come togther for their answers.

Sadly, I do not see this happening. :(

Let me put it this way: If I thought for one moment that someone was responsible for the death of my only child, the last thing I would want to investigate is what happened to the person that killed my child. I wouldn't care. I would be obsessed with finding out what happened to my baby.

I do believe Jonah has been supportive of the Zahou's efforts though.

I just don't fault Dina for not being supportive of it. It's the mother in me.

But I certainly wish it was playing out like you stated and they could come together.....

stilettos
09-20-2011, 02:28 PM
The only problem that would pose is that would mean Rebecca lied and Max' death wasnt an accident. I seriously doubt Rebecca would cover for anyone that was trying to do Jonah's children harm.

If Jonah thought it could have been someone upset with him then he would not believe the known circumstances of Max' death either.

I think the AG should start at the beginning of Max's bizarre and unexplainable accident and go from there.

This is the one area we agree. I would think that is a starting point of agreement for MS's and RZ's family. Why would anyone not want to do that????

stilettos
09-20-2011, 02:30 PM
Sadly, I do not see this happening. :(

Let me put it this way: If I thought for one moment that someone was responsible for the death of my only child, the last thing I would want to investigate is what happened to the person that killed my child. I wouldn't care. I would be obsessed with finding out what happened to my baby.

I do believe Jonah has been supportive of the Zahou's efforts though.

I just don't fault Dina for not being supportive of it. It's the mother in me.

If there were suspicious circumstances in the person's death....I would want to have all the answers. That is just who I am...all about justice...that is the Mother in me. I look for the truth in all circumstances.

oceanblueeyes
09-20-2011, 02:30 PM
True, he hired a private lawyer to send cease and desist letters

And I sure don't blame him one bit for doing that. Imo, the attorney should have written the letter to Bremner sooner than he did.

It was AFTER LE/ME had determined the COD/MOD on each one yet the accusations were still being hurled against him and the Shacknai family.

SunnieRN
09-20-2011, 02:31 PM
The only problem that would pose is that would mean Rebecca lied and Max' death wasnt an accident. I seriously doubt Rebecca would cover for anyone that was trying to do Jonah's children harm.

If Jonah thought it could have been someone upset with him then he would not believe the known circumstances of Max' death either.

I think the AG should start at the beginning of Max's bizarre and unexplainable accident and go from there.

So then what was the need for a private security team?? Sorry, I am confused now.:waitasec:

Agreed, both cases need to be thoroughly looked at.

chasing.halos
09-20-2011, 02:33 PM
If there were suspicious circumstances in the person's death....I would want to have all the answers. That is just who I am...all about justice...that is the Mother in me. I look for the truth in all circumstances.

I applaud you for that. I really do.

stilettos
09-20-2011, 02:36 PM
I applaud you for that. I really do.

Thanks chasing...it is not about me. This is about two people dying under very suspicious circumstances. I hope and pray for answers and truth..for both families. That is all this is about. If there is culpability for MS's death...the truth should come out....if the perception of culpability played a part in RZ's death...that truth should come out. Hopefully, whether we agree or disagree...we all just want the truth.

oceanblueeyes
09-20-2011, 02:36 PM
So then what was the need for a private security team?? Sorry, I am confused now.:waitasec:

Agreed, both cases need to be thoroughly looked at.

Jonah is a powerful man. CEOs can make enemies on the ladder up to success. The private security was to protect himself in case his loved ones were being targeted making it reasonable that he may be next.

IMO

SunnieRN
09-20-2011, 02:39 PM
And I sure don't blame him one bit for doing that. Imo, the attorney should have written the letter to Bremner sooner than he did.

It was AFTER LE/ME had determined the COD/MOD on each one yet the accusations were still being hurled against him and the Shacknai family.

Perhaps that would have been the appropriate time to ask the Attorney General to look at the case. I can not imagine the Zahau's or Bremner have not appealed to the Attny General, yet only when Jonah does, this becomes news.

There are questions that deserve answers. No one truly knows the answers to those questions yet, imp/

ziggy
09-20-2011, 02:42 PM
Well, it was a good PR move and I'll wait to see what happens to form any other opinion but that!

SunnieRN
09-20-2011, 02:42 PM
Jonah is a powerful man. CEOs can make enemies on the ladder up to success. The private security was to protect himself in case his loved ones were being targeted making it reasonable that he may be next.

IMO

Exactly!! Which validates others opinions that this should have become a major investigation in and of its self.

KarenM
09-20-2011, 02:50 PM
So are you saying she was only with JS for his money, and inferring she is a golddigger? That doesn't sound too victim friendly.

Women natually considers a man's financial strength when dating. Like it or not, that's a fact. You don't think other women JS dated or married factored that in?

I am saying RZ was not from a powerful/wealthy family. Her family set up a donation site because they indeed don't have much money.

thinkingstraight
09-20-2011, 02:50 PM
Let me say this, if RZ was from a well connected family from Asia with power and means, she would have never dated a man 20 years older than her and had been divorced twice. People from those families have no less money than JS.

Are you calling R a golddigger?

KarenM
09-20-2011, 02:53 PM
Are you calling R a golddigger?

See my response to CDS above. I think you two have the same question.

Brit
09-20-2011, 02:54 PM
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/rebecca-zahau-suicide-footprints-found-balcony-reveals-forensic-expert

Another set of footprints found on balcony.

thinkingstraight
09-20-2011, 02:55 PM
So are you saying she was only with JS for his money, and inferring she is a golddigger? That doesn't sound too victim friendly.

Sorry I hadn't seen where you already asked that.. Great minds. . .

KarenM
09-20-2011, 02:57 PM
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/rebecca-zahau-suicide-footprints-found-balcony-reveals-forensic-expert

Another set of footprints found on balcony.

If this is true, it is big!

Brit
09-20-2011, 03:01 PM
http://www.10news.com/news/29243040/detail.html

Search warrants unsealed by judge.

time
09-20-2011, 03:04 PM
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/rebecca-zahau-suicide-footprints-found-balcony-reveals-forensic-expert

Another set of footprints found on balcony.

Thank you so much! ... I'm not sure if that was the same tread I thought I saw earlier (maybe I was just showing the pics to my partner then), but I thought there was some near one of her footprints.

time
09-20-2011, 03:09 PM
Here is a large pic ... it just seems obvious that is tread to the left of the footprint

gitana1
09-20-2011, 03:09 PM
Thank you for your response.

Would only protocols come into question, or the evidence itself?

Well, the protocols would be examined to determine if the evidence was interpreted in a legitimate manner, IMO. Evidence is evidence. A reevaluation would not examine new evidence. It would just look into whether the evidence was examined properly, in essence.


This would also prevent the family from having Rebecca's body exhumed, which with a closed investigation, would be allowed by family request.

Rebecca's family should have custody of her body. If investigator's conducted an autopsy, they do not have carte blanche power to then embalm or bury or cremate the body afterwards. In other words, after they conducted their autopsy, Rebecca's family had the power to have an independent autopsy conducted at that time. If after the autopsy, they decided to prepare the body for burial, they had that right but if they wanted a second opinion, they had that right as well.

Has she been buried? Where is her body at present?
I suppose they could have buried her after the autopsy, not knowing that the results of the investigation would be what they are and now are thinking about an independent autopsy. I suppose that could be the case. But after embalming, etc., that's much harder to do.

I don't think an evaluation of the investigation would delay custody of the body being turned over to the family. A brand new investigation would, though, I believe.


Has the PR firm spoken out. They usually will publicly. I dont remember seeing them make any statements.

IMO

PR firms sometimes make statements. They also often direct their clients in how to act and what to say. Many people have PR firms handling them but the existence of the firm is completely hidden. There is not one doubt in my mind that JS has advisers helping him through this.

MyBelle
09-20-2011, 03:12 PM
Well I sure can understand why he would want that.

He and the entire Shacknai family have been vilified with rampant speculations, imo.

imo

Rampant speculations that don't seem to be based on any real facts.

His request comes as no surprise.

JMO

lonetraveler
09-20-2011, 03:13 PM
Well JS's income last year is documented and from the multi million dollars that he made...if he loved this woman..perhaps he could help with the funding.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2038558/Rebecca-Zahau-death-Frantic-phone-calls-Jonah-Shacknais-lover-hanged.html

This link shows his 1998 income at 17million...I willl find the link to last years income...I would imagine that the Zahou's income pales in comparison.

BBM: I don't think that is going to happen.

stilettos
09-20-2011, 03:21 PM
Has the PR firm spoken out. They usually will publicly. I dont remember seeing them make any statements.

IMO

No...I don't believe they have...:floorlaugh: but their wesite indicates they have an aspect of their business that puts it's focus on what "does not" make the news. They do have their ways of making themselves heard though. MOO

...perhaps even more telling are those that never make the newspapers or the evening news where Sitrick And Company achieved the much more difficult task of keeping clients out of the news.

snipped from

http://sitrick.com/

KarenM
09-20-2011, 03:24 PM
Well JS's income last year is documented and from the multi million dollars that he made...if he loved this woman..perhaps he could help with the funding.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2038558/Rebecca-Zahau-death-Frantic-phone-calls-Jonah-Shacknais-lover-hanged.html

This link shows his 1998 income at 17million...I willl find the link to last years income...I would imagine that the Zahou's income pales in comparison.

Medicis is publicly traded. So CEO's pay is always filed with SEC.
Shacknai’s total compensation last year was $6.3 million, which includes a salary of $1.1 million and stock awards of just under $4 million, company securities filings show.

His job almost requires him to hire a PR firm. So in a way, I can understand this piece of action on his end. If he does not, the board members will probably demand him to, as they represent the shareholders.

SunnieRN
09-20-2011, 03:47 PM
Well, the protocols would be examined to determine if the evidence was interpreted in a legitimate manner, IMO. Evidence is evidence. A reevaluation would not examine new evidence. It would just look into whether the evidence was examined properly, in essence.



Rebecca's family should have custody of her body. If investigator's conducted an autopsy, they do not have carte blanche power to then embalm or bury or cremate the body afterwards. In other words, after they conducted their autopsy, Rebecca's family had the power to have an independent autopsy conducted at that time. If after the autopsy, they decided to prepare the body for burial, they had that right but if they wanted a second opinion, they had that right as well.

Has she been buried? Where is her body at present?
I suppose they could have buried her after the autopsy, not knowing that the results of the investigation would be what they are and now are thinking about an independent autopsy. I suppose that could be the case. But after embalming, etc., that's much harder to do.

I don't think an evaluation of the investigation would delay custody of the body being turned over to the family. A brand new investigation would, though, I believe.



PR firms sometimes make statements. They also often direct their clients in how to act and what to say. Many people have PR firms handling them but the existence of the firm is completely hidden. There is not one doubt in my mind that JS has advisers helping him through this.

Gitana, thank you for this. I was basing my belief on the interview of Dr. Wecht Sunday night on websleuths radio. He stated with the case closed, the family can request the body to be re autopsied. I also understood him to say, that if the case was rep[ened, it would then be up to the courts?

Sorry if I misunderstood. Rebecca is buried in Missouri I think.

oceanblueeyes
09-20-2011, 04:58 PM
Perhaps that would have been the appropriate time to ask the Attorney General to look at the case. I can not imagine the Zahau's or Bremner have not appealed to the Attny General, yet only when Jonah does, this becomes news.

There are questions that deserve answers. No one truly knows the answers to those questions yet, imp/

I havent seen anything suggesting Anne or the Z family has appealed to the AG.

All I saw is they were using the media and Anne said she had been talking to the police in charge of the case.

time
09-20-2011, 09:35 PM
I think the timing of Jonah's request is too convenient. Perhaps he was preempting headlines about the search warrants being unsealed.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/sep/20/shacknai-asks-coronado-mansion-death-be-reviewed/

Monday, Jonah Shacknai sends letter to Attorney General

Tuesday "a San Diego Superior Court judge ordered at the request of The San Diego Union-Tribune and nine other news organizations that search warrants (http://topics.signonsandiego.com/topics/Search_warrant) obtained by sheriff’s investigators be unsealed in the case."

jjenny
09-20-2011, 09:42 PM
I think the timing of Jonah's request is too convenient. Perhaps he was preempting headlines about the search warrants being unsealed.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/sep/20/shacknai-asks-coronado-mansion-death-be-reviewed/

Monday, Jonah Shacknai sends letter to Attorney General

Tuesday "a San Diego Superior Court judge ordered at the request of The San Diego Union-Tribune and nine other news organizations that search warrants (http://topics.signonsandiego.com/topics/Search_warrant) obtained by sheriff’s investigators be unsealed in the case."
I am hoping the news organizations can get 911 calls unsealed.

Truthwillsetufree
09-20-2011, 10:10 PM
An investigation like this would cost hundreds of thousands if not more. so I disagree with you. Unfortunately, justice IS sometimes for the rich.

So true.

time
09-20-2011, 10:59 PM
I am hoping the news organizations can get 911 calls unsealed.

That would be great... I hope it is all unsealed.

LaLaw2000
09-20-2011, 11:11 PM
I think the timing of Jonah's request is too convenient. Perhaps he was preempting headlines about the search warrants being unsealed.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/sep/20/shacknai-asks-coronado-mansion-death-be-reviewed/

Monday, Jonah Shacknai sends letter to Attorney General

Tuesday "a San Diego Superior Court judge ordered at the request of The San Diego Union-Tribune and nine other news organizations that search warrants (http://topics.signonsandiego.com/topics/Search_warrant) obtained by sheriff’s investigators be unsealed in the case."

BBM:

I agree, time.

IMO, he sent that letter to make himself look good. That is what I honestly think. I am just not as trusting as others are, especially since I have read of the items recovered in the search warrants.

No matter how much money someone has, some opinions cannot be influenced. I do believe JS did not think there would have been an outcry such as the suicide ruling has caused, and that people would let it go. He has now seen that at least some of the public has no intention of letting it go.

I also look for DS to sue JS for Max's death having happened in his home. They will likely settle out of court if that happens, though. JMO.

The above post is just my opinon.

LaLaw2000
09-20-2011, 11:13 PM
I am hoping the news organizations can get 911 calls unsealed.

Those calls are what I really want to hear. I hope some news agency is working on it!

Rhyme & Reason
09-21-2011, 03:26 AM
Sadly, I do not see this happening. :(

Let me put it this way: If I thought for one moment that someone was responsible for the death of my only child, the last thing I would want to investigate is what happened to the person that killed my child. I wouldn't care. I would be obsessed with finding out what happened to my baby.

I do believe Jonah has been supportive of the Zahou's efforts though.

I just don't fault Dina for not being supportive of it. It's the mother in me.

But I certainly wish it was playing out like you stated and they could come together.....

I don't believe Rebecca intentionally harmed Maxie, but I certainly agree the mother in me would definitely want answers. I honestly can't blame Dina whatsoever for not being supportive of it.

So tragic all the way around.

daisy.faithfull
09-21-2011, 08:05 AM
I agree with you but also want to add that I think that he along with the le underestimated the fact that rz's family would have the resources to gain the professionals they have gotten to help them. These are immigrants from Burma and in my opinion maybe everybody thought that they would just go away. Jmo.

In my post I was just addressing the point that JS wouldn't think that the press wouldn't grab onto the story. He seems to be a very business savvy man who is very aware that his image is very important when it comes to his business. IIRC it was reported that he made a point to call everyone that he does business with.

Witch brings me to something else I have been thinking about. I would think that a man with that much power, money and concern for his image would not want to get his hands dirty. He could easily pay for a professional hit, and I can't see a professional killing Rebecca the way she died.

And I'm not sure that he would assume that Rebecca's family would just let this happen. Her father didn't back down when it came to his situation in Asia, to me it seems to me that Rebecca's are not the type to remain silent about injustice

CocoChanel
09-21-2011, 08:52 AM
Jonah is a powerful man. CEOs can make enemies on the ladder up to success. The private security was to protect himself in case his loved ones were being targeted making it reasonable that he may be next.

IMO

My long-standing opinion has been that the the role of JS as the founder and CEO of a multi-million dollar pharmaceutical firm plays a large part in this tragedy. I believe that MS had an accident that was set in motion due to the circumstances he was in. I can see how the death of RZ might have come about from a number of causes, most tying back to her relationship with the powerful CEO of a company involved in the high-stakes business of drugs. I think we have no idea what goes on in that world, but I suspect we underestimate the motivations and drive of folks who are involved in the development and marketing of pharmaceuticals.

I applaud the request of JS to examine these tragedies further. I think as the CEO of Medicis he was mandated to do that by the Medicis Board. SOMEone with Medicis surely recognized the potential losses this company would incur from a buying public who had unanswered questions surrounding the mysterious and tragic deaths in his personal life.

All of the above is IMHO.

4Jacy
09-21-2011, 11:36 AM
This was very good of him to do.

Why did he wait so long? This was ruled a suicide quite a while ago.

CalElliot
09-21-2011, 11:56 AM
Shacknai strategy as noted in bNet

http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/why-ceo-shacknais-letter-on-death-of-girlfriend-is-a-strategic-masterstroke/9785

oceanblueeyes
09-21-2011, 12:15 PM
BBM:

I agree, time.

IMO, he sent that letter to make himself look good. That is what I honestly think. I am just not as trusting as others are, especially since I have read of the items recovered in the search warrants.

No matter how much money someone has, some opinions cannot be influenced. I do believe JS did not think there would have been an outcry such as the suicide ruling has caused, and that people would let it go. He has now seen that at least some of the public has no intention of letting it go.

I also look for DS to sue JS for Max's death having happened in his home. They will likely settle out of court if that happens, though. JMO.

The above post is just my opinon.

I honestly don't understand why wanting the deaths to be investigated by the AG office was to put Jonah in a good light.

If the AG does a complete investigation of their own that will mean 5 different agencies have investigated this case.

It shows me that Jonah Shacknai also has unanswered questions on both deaths and wants to be assured that the results are correct.

With wanting the case to be investigated by the head attorney in California it shows me that Jonah Shacknai has absolutely has nothing to hide.

No one that has done something wrong wants the state or their investigators nosing around in a case..especially one that has already been closed.

IMO

oceanblueeyes
09-21-2011, 12:19 PM
Why did he wait so long? This was ruled a suicide quite a while ago.

Perhaps because the speculation is still rampant about him and his family as it was before LE/ME came to their determination on both deaths.

stilettos
09-21-2011, 12:31 PM
I honestly don't understand why wanting the deaths to be investigated by the AG office was to put Jonah in a good light.

If the AG does a complete investigation of their own that will mean 5 different agencies have investigated this case.

It shows me that Jonah Shacknai also has unanswered questions on both deaths and wants to be assured that the results are correct.

With wanting the case to be investigated by the head attorney in California it shows me that Jonah Shacknai has absolutely has nothing to hide.

No one that has done something wrong wants the state or their investigators nosing around in a case..especially one that has already been closed.

IMO

Jonah Shacknai has not asked for a new investigation. He has asked that the investigative techniques and methods used be reviewed. there is a difference. He also stated he believes that RZ committed suicide...and that was very early on.

stilettos
09-21-2011, 12:33 PM
Shacknai strategy as noted in bNet

http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/why-ceo-shacknais-letter-on-death-of-girlfriend-is-a-strategic-masterstroke/9785

Yes..I believe it was a calculated, concerted effort by his very expensive PR firm to sway public perception. It has not worked, IMO. Epic fail.

CDS22
09-21-2011, 01:39 PM
Why did he wait so long? This was ruled a suicide quite a while ago.

Because he really believes it was a suicide, as do I. He's doing this merely to appease the Zahau family.

stilettos
09-21-2011, 01:42 PM
Because he really believes it was a suicide, as do I. He's doing this merely to appease the Zahau family.

Do you happen to have a link? Do you know him personally to know what he believes? Has he told you that he is doing this to appease the Zahau family?

oceanblueeyes
09-21-2011, 01:46 PM
Because he really believes it was a suicide, as do I. He's doing this merely to appease the Zahau family.

Maybe he is also wanting the case to be reviewed trying to appease Dina.

I think she has just as much doubt about how her son died as the Z family does about Rebecca.

IMO

CDS22
09-21-2011, 01:49 PM
Maybe he is also wanting the case to be reviewed trying to appease Dina.

I think she has just as much doubt about how her son died as the Z family does about Rebecca.

IMO

Dina is not the only one who has doubts. But I agree with you about him wanting Dina comforted in regards to Max's death. I can't imagine what that family is going through.

TorisMom003
09-21-2011, 01:58 PM
If a person has a self-serving reason for doing something publicly, should they be applauded for it? IMO no.

I have read that not only Dina but Jonah also has questioned how Max died. Both have implicated Rebecca in his death. Dina has said that she believes that Max was suffocated, so who does she believe did that? Well there was one person in that house at that time that she has a major grudge against so I would suspect she means Rebecca. Jonah had been asking people at the funeral/memorial if Rebecca could have done this. So either Jonah believes that Rebecca played a bigger role in Max's death or he wants others to think she did. And yet I see posts concerning Rebecca's family placing blame on Max's family with no regard to what else has been said from the other side.

Both families do not completely accept the rulings/findings of the ME and LE in either case. Both families have the right to have a complete investigation done in the matter of their loved ones. Neither families have the right to completely overlook that a terrible loss was dealt to the other side.

MOO

time
09-21-2011, 01:59 PM
BBM:

I agree, time.

IMO, he sent that letter to make himself look good. That is what I honestly think. I am just not as trusting as others are, especially since I have read of the items recovered in the search warrants.

No matter how much money someone has, some opinions cannot be influenced. I do believe JS did not think there would have been an outcry such as the suicide ruling has caused, and that people would let it go. He has now seen that at least some of the public has no intention of letting it go.

I also look for DS to sue JS for Max's death having happened in his home. They will likely settle out of court if that happens, though. JMO.

The above post is just my opinon.

I think there is a real danger to justice with PR manipulation. I have watched many cases where the truth does get hidden and the public never really knows what goes on.

I think DS might sue him also and that after Max was hurt there was a very volatile situation. Those two appeared to be pretty volatile for several years before they divorced already. DS did not like RZ and apparently (do we have records) did not want Max alone with her. I tend to believe Rebecca did nothing wrong related to Max's death nor before that with the kids, but given the relationship between DS/JS, that DS and RZ did not like each other, and the timelines/claims we are seeing this all seems incredibly important to me. Unfortunately, LE didn't either look into this or they deemed it insignificant to the two deaths.

time
09-21-2011, 02:02 PM
If a person has a self-serving reason for doing something publicly, should they be applauded for it? IMO no.

I have read that not only Dina but Jonah also has questioned how Max died. Both have implicated Rebecca in his death. Dina has said that she believes that Max was suffocated, so who does she believe did that? Well there was one person in that house at that time that she has a major grudge against so I would suspect she means Rebecca. Jonah had been asking people at the funeral/memorial if Rebecca could have done this. So either Jonah believes that Rebecca played a bigger role in Max's death or he wants others to think she did. And yet I see posts concerning Rebecca's family placing blame on Max's family with no regard to what else has been said from the other side.

Both families do not completely accept the rulings/findings of the ME and LE in either case. Both families have the right to have a complete investigation done in the matter of their loved ones. Neither families have the right to completely overlook that a terrible loss was dealt to the other side.

MOO

BBM... where I would place my bets

Morag
09-21-2011, 02:09 PM
(SNIP)... Jonah had been asking people at the funeral/memorial if Rebecca could have done this. ..(SNIP)

I don't have time to produce the links immediately, but at Max's memorial, he was asking 'why would Rebecca want to hurt Max?' which sounds like a response to 'someone' saying that they thought Rebecca was responsible.
At Rebecca's funeral, he was said to be asking, 'do you know anyone who would want to hurt Rebecca?', which might reflect his own quandary about what could have happened. Both seem like reasonable questions, assuming he was not being disingenuous.
I will try to get the links at some point.

CDS22
09-21-2011, 02:57 PM
If a person has a self-serving reason for doing something publicly, should they be applauded for it? IMO no.

I have read that not only Dina but Jonah also has questioned how Max died. Both have implicated Rebecca in his death. Dina has said that she believes that Max was suffocated, so who does she believe did that? Well there was one person in that house at that time that she has a major grudge against so I would suspect she means Rebecca. Jonah had been asking people at the funeral/memorial if Rebecca could have done this. So either Jonah believes that Rebecca played a bigger role in Max's death or he wants others to think she did. And yet I see posts concerning Rebecca's family placing blame on Max's family with no regard to what else has been said from the other side.

Both families do not completely accept the rulings/findings of the ME and LE in either case. Both families have the right to have a complete investigation done in the matter of their loved ones. Neither families have the right to completely overlook that a terrible loss was dealt to the other side.

MOO

Where did Dina say that she thought Max had been suffocated? She hasn't made a public statement since his injury, except for the joint statement with Jonah after the child's death.

TorisMom003
09-21-2011, 03:20 PM
Where did Dina say that she thought Max had been suffocated? She hasn't made a public statement since his injury, except for the joint statement with Jonah after the child's death.

Here is the post that I am referring to. This was posted a while back.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA - Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #9

CDS22
09-21-2011, 03:23 PM
Here is the post that I am referring to. This was posted a while back.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA - Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #9 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7098298&postcount=657)

Wow. Thanks. I read the threads prior to joining, but forgot about that one.

time
09-21-2011, 03:36 PM
sbm

YES, she does have a team working on what happened to Maxie.


I could have missed it, but why do Dina and her family think this was not an accident?

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 03:45 PM
Yes..I believe it was a calculated, concerted effort by his very expensive PR firm to sway public perception. It has not worked, IMO. Epic fail.

Really? How so? I thought the Nightline story was an excellent.

JMO

TorisMom003
09-21-2011, 03:54 PM
I could have missed it, but why do Dina and her family think this was not an accident?

Dina, at least, believes that Max was smothered before being tossed over the railing. Now, as to why she believes that, I have no idea. Perhaps she hated Rebecca to the point that she would blame her no matter what the evidence showed. Perhaps someone else has put this thought into her head and she can't accept an accident so she clings to this instead. Again, no idea why she feels the way she does, only she knows the answer to that.

stilettos
09-21-2011, 03:59 PM
Really? How so? I thought the Nightline story was an excellent.

JMO

:seeya:MyBelle. We disagree.

time
09-21-2011, 04:17 PM
Dina, at least, believes that Max was smothered before being tossed over the railing. Now, as to why she believes that, I have no idea. Perhaps she hated Rebecca to the point that she would blame her no matter what the evidence showed. Perhaps someone else has put this thought into her head and she can't accept an accident so she clings to this instead. Again, no idea why she feels the way she does, only she knows the answer to that.


Thank you, I'm not really sure what to think of that absent some eyewitness account supporting or forensics or past history. Without any of that it brings me back to the strange dynamics between Dina and Jonah. CHalos said that Jonah had the odd (and I think disturbing) habit of investigating his ex's boyfriends and DS investigating Rebecca.


Jonah has an interesting past of having his ex wives/girlfriends boyfriends followed, investigated, photographed etc...CA - Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #9 - Page 27 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


And, also Dina investigating Rebecca. Plus, with the domestic abuse that went on in their household, which has an effect on children, I'm just getting the feeling that Rebecca got caught up in the weird dynamic between these two and that Max's death WAS really just caused by an accident.

I see no reason an autopsy couldn't easily show if there was strangling or suffocation? So I'm not sure what is being investigated? I do find it odd that that is the claim and Rebecca was strangled/suffocated.

BTW, I think SDSD did a really poor job on the animation. I'm not convinced that exactly what happened. I'm also not convinced there was no one else there but Rebecca and her sister, but oh well.

TorisMom003
09-21-2011, 04:23 PM
BTW, I think SDSD did a really poor job on the animation. I'm not convinced that exactly what happened. I'm also not convinced there was no one else there but Rebecca and her sister, but oh well.

Snipped by me.

I completely agree with you about the posibilty of others being in the house at the time of Max's accident. Especially in light of the fact that we now know that LE did not actually come clean about all of the various people involved. After the search warrents were released we find out that Dina's sister was in town and that Rebecca picked her up from the airport. Then we find out that one of Jonah's friends was also in town and that Adam, Rebecca and Jonah took this friend to the airport before they went to dinner the night "before" Rebecca died. How many other people were in town that we don't know about? How many other people were left out of the findings for whatever reason? Did any of those people have solid alibis during Rebecca's time of death?

Again, more questions than answers in this case.

MOO

time
09-21-2011, 04:56 PM
Snipped by me.

I completely agree with you about the posibilty of others being in the house at the time of Max's accident. Especially in light of the fact that we now know that LE did not actually come clean about all of the various people involved. After the search warrents were released we find out that Dina's sister was in town and that Rebecca picked her up from the airport. Then we find out that one of Jonah's friends was also in town and that Adam, Rebecca and Jonah took this friend to the airport before they went to dinner the night "before" Rebecca died. How many other people were in town that we don't know about? How many other people were left out of the findings for whatever reason? Did any of those people have solid alibis during Rebecca's time of death?

Again, more questions than answers in this case.

MOO

Yes, exactly. We know Jonah's teenage daughter was there Monday morning. We don't know when she left or how things were going when she was there. I have not heard that Kimberly had a problem with Rebecca being around the kids or if she liked/disliked her. She obviously had contact with her since they are all in the Bar Mitzvah pics together.

We heard earlier that Dina has a boyfriend because of posts by his teenage daughter. Where was the boyfriend during all of this?

What was Adam doing from 8 pm until he awoke at 6:45 am? He could have been watching tv then went to bed, but he really has no alibi and we've heard nadda about any of that. Plus, he did NOT pass the lie detector test. I'm curiosu to k now how often he has stayed int he mansion in the past and if he has any friends or acquaintences in the area.

We were not told who stayed in the other guest bedroom. It would seem odd to me that Rebecca's 13 year old sister would be put there to stay. I would not allow that, they'd have to stay closer to me and in the main house.

What the heck happened to the people who were supposedly staying in the caretakers quarters or whatever is over the garage?

I still think there were service people around and were possibly undocumented. Not that they did anything but that would be relevant to a death investigation.

I'd really like to know what the chatter was after Max's accident.

We learned a lot from the search warrants, but it would be great to see the police reports and interviews.

SunnieRN
09-21-2011, 05:00 PM
And who's womens clothing was in the second guest bedroom?

Rhyme & Reason
09-21-2011, 06:36 PM
Maybe he is also wanting the case to be reviewed trying to appease Dina.

I think she has just as much doubt about how her son died as the Z family does about Rebecca.

IMO

Above bbm

I totally agree and I truly hope she can find some answers. How utterly devastating.

Rhyme & Reason
09-21-2011, 06:41 PM
Where did Dina say that she thought Max had been suffocated? She hasn't made a public statement since his injury, except for the joint statement with Jonah after the child's death.

WS member chasing.halos is a verified insider. She knows DS.

CDS22
09-21-2011, 06:51 PM
WS member chasing.halos is a verified insider. She knows DS.

I wasn't questioning chasing.halo's insider status. I was questioning to what the other poster was referring. In other words, did that poster have a quote.

jjenny
09-21-2011, 07:24 PM
I wasn't questioning chasing.halo's insider status. I was questioning to what the other poster was referring. In other words, did that poster have a quote.
If the poster has been verified as having inside information they don't need a quote. That's why the poster is a verified insider.

CDS22
09-21-2011, 07:34 PM
If the poster has been verified as having inside information they don't need a quote. That's why the poster is a verified insider.

It wasn't chasing.halo that I posed the question to. Someone else made the statement and didn't refer it back to chasing.halo's quote, so I wondered if Dina had made a public statement.

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 08:00 PM
Dina, at least, believes that Max was smothered before being tossed over the railing. Now, as to why she believes that, I have no idea. Perhaps she hated Rebecca to the point that she would blame her no matter what the evidence showed. Perhaps someone else has put this thought into her head and she can't accept an accident so she clings to this instead. Again, no idea why she feels the way she does, only she knows the answer to that.

BBM. The evidence does show that the child died due to lack of oxygenated blood circulation. I'm not going to second-guess a Mother or her instinct as to the cause of death of her beloved son.

JMO

steff13
09-21-2011, 08:54 PM
People often want to cast blame when someone close to them dies under unusual circumstances, even if there is no blame to cast.

While I respect a mother's instinct, it is neither scientific nor objective.

JMO

CDS22
09-21-2011, 09:08 PM
People often want to cast blame when someone close to them dies under unusual circumstances, even if there is no blame to cast.

While I respect a mother's instinct, it is neither scientific nor objective.

JMO

Just like people want to cast blame in cases of suicide.

deanna82437
09-21-2011, 10:30 PM
Just like people want to cast blame in cases of suicide.

Is that a statement of fact? Do you have an example of the fact? A link? Or is it just your opinion? TIA

TorisMom003
09-21-2011, 10:55 PM
BBM. The evidence does show that the child died due to lack of oxygenated blood circulation. I'm not going to second-guess a Mother or her instinct as to the cause of death of her beloved son.

JMO

I have not said that Dina's instinct was wrong nor have I have said that Dina was wrong in not being able to accept the ME/LE ruling in Max's death. I understand that she is hurting. I also understand that she is more than likely wanting concrete answers to her questions.

Rebecca's family feels the same way. They do not believe that her death was looked at as well as it should have been. They question and are not able to accept the ME/LE ruling on her death. They are hurting. They also more than likely are wanting concrete answers to their questions.

Neither side is more important or more worthy of answers. Both families are hurting and do not feel that all of their questions have been answered. Dina is not the only mother that lost her child.

MOO

lauriej
09-22-2011, 02:02 AM
http://www.10news.com/news/29253139/detail.html
Attorney Obtains New Info In Zahau Death Case

Anne Bremner Represents Rebecca Zahau's Family, Claims New Information Could Help Re-Open Probe

On Tuesday, Sheriff Bill Gore defended his department's findings, but he added he supported Shacknai's request and would cooperate with the attorney general if she wanted to review the case.

...nice of the sheriff to step up and 'support shacknai's request'------although i hadn't noticed him coming out to support the request of rebecca's family in recent weeks.

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 02:22 AM
http://www.10news.com/news/29253139/detail.html
Attorney Obtains New Info In Zahau Death Case

Anne Bremner Represents Rebecca Zahau's Family, Claims New Information Could Help Re-Open Probe

On Tuesday, Sheriff Bill Gore defended his department's findings, but he added he supported Shacknai's request and would cooperate with the attorney general if she wanted to review the case.

...nice of the sheriff to step up and 'support shacknai's request'------although i hadn't noticed him coming out to support the request of rebecca's family in recent weeks.

Has Rebecca's family made a request in writing? If they have, I haven't seen it.

JMO

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 02:31 AM
I have not said that Dina's instinct was wrong nor have I have said that Dina was wrong in not being able to accept the ME/LE ruling in Max's death. I understand that she is hurting. I also understand that she is more than likely wanting concrete answers to her questions.

Rebecca's family feels the same way. They do not believe that her death was looked at as well as it should have been. They question and are not able to accept the ME/LE ruling on her death. They are hurting. They also more than likely are wanting concrete answers to their questions.

Neither side is more important or more worthy of answers. Both families are hurting and do not feel that all of their questions have been answered. Dina is not the only mother that lost her child.

MOO

If Rebecca's family wants the investigation re-opened, they should make that request.

JMO

flying monkey
09-22-2011, 02:36 AM
Is it true MS was on medication for add?

steff13
09-22-2011, 07:40 AM
Is it true MS was on medication for add?

I don't think so. If he was, it wasn't indicated on the autopsy report.

stilettos
09-22-2011, 08:23 AM
I have not said that Dina's instinct was wrong nor have I have said that Dina was wrong in not being able to accept the ME/LE ruling in Max's death. I understand that she is hurting. I also understand that she is more than likely wanting concrete answers to her questions.

Rebecca's family feels the same way. They do not believe that her death was looked at as well as it should have been. They question and are not able to accept the ME/LE ruling on her death. They are hurting. They also more than likely are wanting concrete answers to their questions.

Neither side is more important or more worthy of answers. Both families are hurting and do not feel that all of their questions have been answered. Dina is not the only mother that lost her child.

MOO

I concur. I can only use deductive reasoning to infer why one family's questions would be received and supported while the other...ridiculed and dismissed. I believ ethat both deserve more answers.

CDS22
09-22-2011, 02:24 PM
State AG won't review deaths at Spreckels mansion

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/sep/22/state-ag-wont-review-deaths-spreckels-mansion/

time
09-22-2011, 02:32 PM
State AG won't review deaths at Spreckels mansion

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/sep/22/state-ag-wont-review-deaths-spreckels-mansion/

Doesn't surprise me, they never want to go against LE or prosecutors - or judges for that matter.


In a letter dated Wednesday, Chief Assistant Attorney General Dane Gillette offered condolences to Shacknai but said the state Department of Justice would review a local investigation only under “very narrow circumstances,” including whether a conflict of interest exists or whether there are allegations of gross malfeasance by the investigative agency.
Plus, Shacknai did not make his case and he even stated he had no reason to doubt the results of the investigation ... weak and he knew it as he is an attorney and surely would have or could have consulted an attorney about such a request.

IWannaKnow
09-22-2011, 02:58 PM
copy of the letter:
http://www.10newsblogs.com/pdf/Shacknai_letter.pdf

thinkingstraight
09-22-2011, 03:03 PM
I concur. I can only use deductive reasoning to infer why one family's questions would be received and supported while the other...ridiculed and dismissed. I believ ethat both deserve more answers.

See, I see it completely opposite. It seems as though the suspicious death of a sweet little boy has been overshadowed by RZs death. Where is the outcry for Max?

stilettos
09-22-2011, 03:14 PM
See, I see it completely opposite. It seems as though the suspicious death of a sweet little boy has been overshadowed by RZs death. Where is the outcry for Max?

I have said all along that both deaths should be reviewed and that both of their loved ones deserve answers. Equal justice is an outcry for MS and for RZ. Find out who was in the home the 24 hours before and day of MS's death. Get exact uncontrovertable proof of each person in and around the home, when they left (including the children)...have them interviewed by detectives, get the same for the day preceding and day of RZ's death....give LDT's to all of them...get flight info for the family for both incidents and let the chips fall where they may.

Betty P
09-22-2011, 03:28 PM
See, I see it completely opposite. It seems as though the suspicious death of a sweet little boy has been overshadowed by RZs death. Where is the outcry for Max?

All the more reason why an independent investigation is needed.

Max's death, while tragic, doesn't seem to be as unusual as Rebecca's. Anyone who has raised healthy, energetic, impulsive young boys knows the risks of accidents in the home, especially where stairs are involved. At that age, they have no fear or sense of personal danger. They just want to have fun and to them, all the world is a playground. I had a younger brother, like that. Exuberant, energetic and, in spite of older siblings and a mother watching out, he always seemed to end up in the ER or at the doctors office for a sprain, stitches or a broken bone. He did everything at 100 mph. The old fashioned term was "accident prone".

OTOH, Rebecca's death was highly unusual, very bizarre, especially coming so soon after Max's tragic death. In an extended family filled with jealousy, hostility,and resentment its natural to assume the worst. Any lower or middle class family in this situation would have been subjected to more scrutiny than we've seen in this case.

Both deaths are tragic, both should be more fully investigated.

time
09-22-2011, 03:50 PM
I have said all along that both deaths should be reviewed and that both of their loved ones deserve answers. Equal justice is an outcry for MS and for RZ. Find out who was in the home the 24 hours before and day of MS's death. Get exact uncontrovertable proof of each person in and around the home, when they left (including the children)...have them interviewed by detectives, get the same for the day preceding and day of RZ's death....give LDT's to all of them...get flight info for the family for bith incidents and let the chips fall where they may.

I agree. Max deserves justice but I do not think his death is as suspicious as claiming Rebecca committed this bizzare suicide AFTER another accident that was a death. I'm fully open to finding out new stuff about Max's death whether it was an accident or not. I do think, as I have said, they need some forensic scientist with a physics background to review if that scenario was possible. However, there is not much to go on that it wasn't an accident. It remains suspicious that we are not privy to who was in that house that day, when they left, and what was transpiring while they were there.

I can't at all see, at this point, that claims of strangling or suffocation are warranted as Max's parents could have called for a second autopsy - they had control as far as I can see - and no one has shown evidence of some event occurring before Max's accident. I would think if that is the claim, someone would be pushing for full tranparency of who was in the house. If not Dina, then Jonah... he is the parent of all these children and the one who should be able to comment on all the relationships, etc. He is also accountable if he made some agreement with Dina to always be there, rightly or not. He does not seem to care about the rumors surrounding Rebecca, but cares about the ones surrounding him and maybe Dina. The two of them could clear up a bunch of stuff if they wanted. They were around as was Adam. But they are not doing that and instead expect everyone to quit 'bashing' them. You can't have it both ways. I lost all respect for the two of them when they came out with that joint statement about their marriage just having a rough patch.

time
09-22-2011, 03:54 PM
See, I see it completely opposite. It seems as though the suspicious death of a sweet little boy has been overshadowed by RZs death. Where is the outcry for Max?

What is it you see as so suspicious about Max's death/accident? Where is there any indication that it some intentional harm was done to him? I'm open but I just don't see it.

CDS22
09-22-2011, 03:57 PM
What is it you see as so suspicious about Max's death/accident? Where is there any indication that it some intentional harm was done to him? I'm open but I just don't see it.

A doctor from Rady's believes he was suffocated. The link is on the Max death thread.

IWannaKnow
09-22-2011, 04:00 PM
This new Max may have been suffocated story just pours gasoline on the fire IMO. It was reported early on that DS believed Max was suffocated. If that doctor told her that, based upon his opinion on the 11th or 12th, that is simply that much more motivation, in my very humble opinion. I find it incomprehensible that he would say such a thing, given what Max's injuries were. If he was basing this only on his external injuries, that was a reckless statement to make. He should have had access to the other tests and known that he had a C-spine problem......

stilettos
09-22-2011, 04:01 PM
I agree. Max deserves justice but I do not think his death is as suspicious as claiming Rebecca committed this bizzare suicide AFTER another accident that was a death. I'm fully open to finding out new stuff about Max's death whether it was an accident or not. I do think, as I have said, they need some forensic scientist with a physics background to review if that scenario was possible. However, there is not much to go on that it wasn't an accident. It remains suspicious that we are not privy to who was in that house that day, when they left, and what was transpiring while they were there.

I can't at all see, at this point, that claims of strangling or suffocation are warranted as Max's parents could have called for a second autopsy - they had control as far as I can see - and no one has shown evidence of some event occurring before Max's accident. I would think if that is the claim, someone would be pushing for full tranparency of who was in the house. If not Dina, then Jonah... he is the parent of all these children and the one who should be able to comment on all the relationships, etc. He is also accountable if he made some agreement with Dina to always be there, rightly or not. He does not seem to care about the rumors surrounding Rebecca, but cares about the ones surrounding him and maybe Dina. The two of them could clear up a bunch of stuff if they wanted. They were around as was Adam. But they are not doing that and instead expect everyone to quit 'bashing' them. You can't have it both ways. I lost all respect for the two of them when they came out with that joint statement about their marriage just having a rough patch.

:clap::clap::clap::clap:

The thanks button was not enough.

lauriej
09-22-2011, 04:12 PM
http://www.10news.com/news/29268087/detail.html

In response to media inquiries, Jonah Shacknai today confirmed that California Attorney General Kamala D. Harris issued a letter declining to intervene in the investigation of the deaths of Mr. Shacknai's youngest son, Max, and his girlfriend and companion, Rebecca Zahau.

---JS letter responding to the AG.

"I would like to thank Attorney General Harris for her condolences and consideration of my request to evaluate this matter. I respect and accept the determination of the chief law enforcement authority in the State of California that the circumstances of this investigation do not warrant further review by the Attorney General at this time.

Given the unusual facts of this tragedy, I understand that Rebecca's family and others continue to have questions. If at any time there is new substantive evidence bearing on this case, it should be presented, not in tabloid form to fuel rumor and innuendo, but rather to appropriate law enforcement authorities who may determine whether further investigation is warranted.

I continue to pray Max and Rebecca are now at peace, and that all of us devastated by their losses will be permitted to continue to grieve privately as we struggle to achieve some peace and closure."

SunnieRN
09-22-2011, 04:15 PM
State AG won't review deaths at Spreckels mansion

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/sep/22/state-ag-wont-review-deaths-spreckels-mansion/

snip:
In a letter dated Wednesday, Chief Assistant Attorney General Dane Gillette offered condolences to Shacknai but said the state Department of Justice would review a local investigation only under “very narrow circumstances,” including whether a conflict of interest exists or whether there are allegations of wrongdoing by the investigative agency.

“Based on a review of your request, we must decline your invitation to review this investigation at this time,” Gillette wrote on behalf of Attorney General Kamala Harris.


Whether a conflict of interest exists??!! What?? Let's see, LE embellishments of the truth seem worthy of that!

stilettos
09-22-2011, 04:33 PM
snip:
In a letter dated Wednesday, Chief Assistant Attorney General Dane Gillette offered condolences to Shacknai but said the state Department of Justice would review a local investigation only under “very narrow circumstances,” including whether a conflict of interest exists or whether there are allegations of wrongdoing by the investigative agency.

“Based on a review of your request, we must decline your invitation to review this investigation at this time,” Gillette wrote on behalf of Attorney General Kamala Harris.


Whether a conflict of interest exists??!! What?? Let's see, LE embellishments of the truth seem worthy of that!

Well crap...One would think that enough allegations have been raised by now.

stilettos
09-22-2011, 04:35 PM
http://www.10news.com/news/29268087/detail.html

In response to media inquiries, Jonah Shacknai today confirmed that California Attorney General Kamala D. Harris issued a letter declining to intervene in the investigation of the deaths of Mr. Shacknai's youngest son, Max, and his girlfriend and companion, Rebecca Zahau.

---JS letter responding to the AG.

"I would like to thank Attorney General Harris for her condolences and consideration of my request to evaluate this matter. I respect and accept the determination of the chief law enforcement authority in the State of California that the circumstances of this investigation do not warrant further review by the Attorney General at this time.

Given the unusual facts of this tragedy, I understand that Rebecca's family and others continue to have questions. If at any time there is new substantive evidence bearing on this case, it should be presented, not in tabloid form to fuel rumor and innuendo, but rather to appropriate law enforcement authorities who may determine whether further investigation is warranted.

I continue to pray Max and Rebecca are now at peace, and that all of us devastated by their losses will be permitted to continue to grieve privately as we struggle to achieve some peace and closure."

:banghead:Yeah, I am sure he does.

time
09-22-2011, 04:38 PM
A doctor from Rady's believes he was suffocated. The link is on the Max death thread.

Thanks I had not seen anything about that.

time
09-22-2011, 04:41 PM
This new Max may have been suffocated story just pours gasoline on the fire IMO. It was reported early on that DS believed Max was suffocated. If that doctor told her that, based upon his opinion on the 11th or 12th, that is simply that much more motivation, in my very humble opinion. I find it incomprehensible that he would say such a thing, given what Max's injuries were. If he was basing this only on his external injuries, that was a reckless statement to make. He should have had access to the other tests and known that he had a C-spine problem......


Agree ... I'm kind of scratching my head because it makes it look more like Rebecca's death was then a homicide to me.

Why wouldn't a second autopsy also be performed if Dina and Jonah were told this?

time
09-22-2011, 04:46 PM
http://www.10news.com/news/29268087/detail.html

In response to media inquiries, Jonah Shacknai today confirmed that California Attorney General Kamala D. Harris issued a letter declining to intervene in the investigation of the deaths of Mr. Shacknai's youngest son, Max, and his girlfriend and companion, Rebecca Zahau.

---JS letter responding to the AG.

"I would like to thank Attorney General Harris for her condolences and consideration of my request to evaluate this matter. I respect and accept the determination of the chief law enforcement authority in the State of California that the circumstances of this investigation do not warrant further review by the Attorney General at this time.

Given the unusual facts of this tragedy, I understand that Rebecca's family and others continue to have questions. If at any time there is new substantive evidence bearing on this case, it should be presented, not in tabloid form to fuel rumor and innuendo, but rather to appropriate law enforcement authorities who may determine whether further investigation is warranted.

I continue to pray Max and Rebecca are now at peace, and that all of us devastated by their losses will be permitted to continue to grieve privately as we struggle to achieve some peace and closure."


Oh, for cripe sake. The AG letter said they were not given any specific reasons to intervene and Jonah's first letter said he already accepted the results. Why would they intervene based on that. They might intervene if something wrote and appropriate call to reopen the investigation. Now Jonah thinks that publicly he will look concerned. He's an attorney surrounded by attorney and people in the medical filed as well. He knew darn well his letter wouldn't result in any action. It was, at best, weak.

thinkingstraight
09-22-2011, 04:51 PM
Snipped: OTOH, Rebecca's death was highly unusual, very bizarre, especially coming so soon after Max's tragic death. In an extended family filled with jealousy, hostility,and resentment its natural to assume the worst. Any lower or middle class family in this situation would have been subjected to more scrutiny than we've seen in this case.

Both deaths are tragic, both should be more fully investigated.
In your second sentence of the first paragraph I quoted, I couldn't agree more.

thinkingstraight
09-22-2011, 05:02 PM
What is it you see as so suspicious about Max's death/accident? Where is there any indication that it some intentional harm was done to him? I'm open but I just don't see it.

First of all, I can't believe you said you lost all respect for JS and Dina! Grieving parents with their baby boy barely in the ground and having to deal with those allegations- how would you put a statement out in those circumstances. Just what would you do different. Furthermore, I have Never indicated I thought max was intentionally hurt. What I have said is that I don't think R was truthful as it related to the accident. And just that alone seems to really fire people up. It's mind boggling. I mean, it's not like I'm accusing anyone of murder .

thinkingstraight
09-22-2011, 05:08 PM
:banghead:Yeah, I am sure he does.

Please clarify. I know you're not alleging he doesn't wish rebecca and max peace?

Schmerty_Jones
09-22-2011, 05:25 PM
The fact that there was so much hostility towards RZ from Dina & her twin sister,must have been known to JS. Rebecca was even asked not to come to the children's school events or to family meals ,celebrations etc. It is clear that several people AS , JS brother& Dina's sister were around the mansion that night. I don't see how no one heard or saw anything . It is highly suspicious.Surely if Atty Bremmer & Dr. W represent the family of Rebecca ,the AG Kamala Harris would give these grieving relatives some authority to get answers. The USA does not state that it give LIBERTY & JUSTICE for the RICH! :banghead::banghead:It states LIBERTY & JUSTICE FOR ALL!

stilettos
09-22-2011, 05:31 PM
Please clarify. I know you're not alleging he doesn't wish rebecca and max peace?

I bolded the segment of the post I quoted that I was referring to.

elementry
09-22-2011, 05:49 PM
This new Max may have been suffocated story just pours gasoline on the fire IMO. It was reported early on that DS believed Max was suffocated. If that doctor told her that, based upon his opinion on the 11th or 12th, that is simply that much more motivation, in my very humble opinion. I find it incomprehensible that he would say such a thing, given what Max's injuries were. If he was basing this only on his external injuries, that was a reckless statement to make. He should have had access to the other tests and known that he had a C-spine problem......

Yup, ironically, the more that a wrongful or even malicious death of MS is hypothesized, the more the motive for a murder of RZ increases. Except in SD LE's view, where ones An accident and the others a suicide and that's the end of it, (wrapped up neatly by the Labor Day long weekend incidentally ).

SophieRose
09-22-2011, 05:55 PM
The fact that there was so much hostility towards RZ from Dina & her twin sister,must have been known to JS.

Where are you getting that there was hostility from Dina's twin sister Nina towards RZ? I have not seen that stated anywhere before.

elementry
09-22-2011, 06:00 PM
Oh, for cripe sake. The AG letter said they were not given any specific reasons to intervene and Jonah's first letter said he already accepted the results. Why would they intervene based on that. They might intervene if something wrote and appropriate call to reopen the investigation. Now Jonah thinks that publicly he will look concerned. He's an attorney surrounded by attorney and people in the medical filed as well. He knew darn well his letter wouldn't result in any action. It was, at best, weak.

Well, that was quick. JS had his Thank You note primed and ready for press release. There are the faint notes of choreography to his circumscribed plea, the demurral by the CA AT office and now the latest note of gratitude from Jonah. Do I hear the Sitrick and Co. String section playing?

So there will be no examining of SD LE's methods, something that might have gotten ugly within the California power structures. Again, the path of least resistance is taken. On the other hand, the speculation will continue apace until thing break one way or another.

CDS22
09-22-2011, 06:07 PM
Well, that was quick. JS had his Thank You note primed and ready for press release.


Do you have a link for that? TIA

time
09-22-2011, 06:12 PM
First of all, I can't believe you said you lost all respect for JS and Dina! Grieving parents with their baby boy barely in the ground and having to deal with those allegations- how would you put a statement out in those circumstances. Just what would you do different. Furthermore, I have Never indicated I thought max was intentionally hurt. What I have said is that I don't think R was truthful as it related to the accident. And just that alone seems to really fire people up. It's mind boggling. I mean, it's not like I'm accusing anyone of murder .

I have a right to my opinion and I justified it in much earlier threads. I have been posting here from the beginning I believe but I will tell you why again.

Jonah and Dina engaged in mutual or whatever physical violence and threats with each other for years. Dina gave LE a picture from back in 2006. This went on until at least 2009 between the two of them. It started when Max was 1-2 years old and continued for quite a while. There is no way a child would not have been affected by some of that. I think they should have kept mum on it all instead of issuing a joint statement that it was a rough patch... that is not true when anyone engages in domestic violence, let alone for an extended time and with several police calls. Neither of them would press charges though. They made some very strong claims against each other as I am sure you are well aware, chilling claims.

I never said you thought Max was intentionally hurt... it was a question based on some here claiming he is not being given justice. Again, this is what I said with the first question being most important and the second a tangent from the first, I thought it was logical:



What is it you see as so suspicious about Max's death/accident? Where is there any indication that it some intentional harm was done to him? I'm open but I just don't see it.

If I were Dina, given their past, I would have refused to issue any such joint statement about domestic abuse and would have issued my own statement about my son.

If I were Jonah and in love with Rebecca I would have made some public statement right away about my loss and hoping for a full investigation.

Again, I would not try to portray domestic violence documented with horrendous police reports and pictures over several years as analogous to a rough patch. Such domestic abuse is not normal behavior and should not be downplayed.

SunnieRN
09-22-2011, 06:15 PM
A doctor from Rady's believes he was suffocated. The link is on the Max death thread.

Let's quote the good doctor accurately. He stated that 'at first' he believed that Max may have been strangled. If he truly believed that still, he would be granting interviews and would have called cps or risk losing his license. Mandated reporter!!


http://www.10news.com/news/29268087/detail.html

In response to media inquiries, Jonah Shacknai today confirmed that California Attorney General Kamala D. Harris issued a letter declining to intervene in the investigation of the deaths of Mr. Shacknai's youngest son, Max, and his girlfriend and companion, Rebecca Zahau.

---JS letter responding to the AG.

"I would like to thank Attorney General Harris for her condolences and consideration of my request to evaluate this matter. I respect and accept the determination of the chief law enforcement authority in the State of California that the circumstances of this investigation do not warrant further review by the Attorney General at this time.

Given the unusual facts of this tragedy, I understand that Rebecca's family and others continue to have questions. If at any time there is new substantive evidence bearing on this case, it should be presented, not in tabloid form to fuel rumor and innuendo, but rather to appropriate law enforcement authorities who may determine whether further investigation is warranted.

I continue to pray Max and Rebecca are now at peace, and that all of us devastated by their losses will be permitted to continue to grieve privately as we struggle to achieve some peace and closure."


Thanks I had not seen anything about that.


Do you have a link for that? TIA

Links to both letters.

stilettos
09-22-2011, 06:16 PM
I have a right to my opinion and I justified it in much earlier threads. I have been posting here from the beginning I believe but I will tell you why again.

Jonah and Dina engaged in mutual or whatever physical violence and threats with each other for years. Dina gave LE a picture from back in 2006. This went on until at least 2009 between the two of them. It started when Max was 1-2 years old and continued for quite a while. There is no way a child would not have been affected by some of that. I think they should have kept mum on it all instead of issuing a joint statement that it was a rough patch... that is not true when anyone engages in domestic violence, let alone for an extended time and with several police calls. Neither of them would press charges though. They made some very strong claims against each other as I am sure you are well aware, chilling claims.

I never said you thought Max was intentionally hurt... it was a question based on some here claiming he is not being given justice. Again, this is what I said with the first question being most important and the second a tangent from the first, I thought it was logical:



If I were Dina, given their past, I would have refused to issue any such joint statement about domestic abuse and would have issued my own statement about my son.

If I were Jonah and in love with Rebecca I would have made some public statement right away about my loss and hoping for a full investigation.

Again, I would not try to portray domestic violence documented with horrendous police reports and pictures over several years as analogous to a rough patch. Such domestic abuse is not normal behavior and should not be downplayed.

Well said. Domestic violence does hurt the children...even if they are just witness to the abuse. I would think that MS's Mom wouldn't downplay that for his sake. JMO

elementry
09-22-2011, 06:22 PM
Do you have a link for that? TIA

Sorry, no link. Just my smart-azz commentary. It came pretty quick though, and he appears far from dissatisfied with the AG's turndown. The turndown is tantamount to an endorsement of SD LE's unilateral verdict, without having to actually look at the details. Net-net, JS is probably pretty satisfied that he is seen to offer the re-look (in it's circumscribed manner), then a virtual waiver is issued, and his "Thank You" note that is reminiscent of the one that appeared as an official document of SD LE's public dossier. All in the space of one day. not bad work by Sitrick I'd venture.

arielilane
09-22-2011, 07:45 PM
copy of the letter:
http://www.10newsblogs.com/pdf/Shacknai_letter.pdf

Thank you for posting this information, IWannaKnow. Unbelievable how quick he gets a response. Most people wait awhile before hearing back from the AG...at least two months or more. Good grief...

thinkingstraight
09-22-2011, 08:40 PM
I have a right to my opinion and I justified it in much earlier threads. I have been posting here from the beginning I believe but I will tell you why again.

Jonah and Dina engaged in mutual or whatever physical violence and threats with each other for years. Dina gave LE a picture from back in 2006. This went on until at least 2009 between the two of them. It started when Max was 1-2 years old and continued for quite a while. There is no way a child would not have been affected by some of that. I think they should have kept mum on it all instead of issuing a joint statement that it was a rough patch... that is not true when anyone engages in domestic violence, let alone for an extended time and with several police calls. Neither of them would press charges though. They made some very strong claims against each other as I am sure you are well aware, chilling claims.

I never said you thought Max was intentionally hurt... it was a question based on some here claiming he is not being given justice. Again, this is what I said with the first question being most important and the second a tangent from the first, I thought it was logical:



If I were Dina, given their past, I would have refused to issue any such joint statement about domestic abuse and would have issued my own statement about my son.

If I were Jonah and in love with Rebecca I would have made some public statement right away about my loss and hoping for a full investigation.

Again, I would not try to portray domestic violence documented with horrendous police reports and pictures over several years as analogous to a rough patch. Such domestic abuse is not normal behavior and should not be downplayed.

You do realize what they were going through at that time right? I mean, I really do think we should lay low on judging grieving parents. If they had not put out a statement, people would be hollering. Maybe they downplayed it all, but the public would have a feeding frenzy if they hadn't. And maybe the dying of their child was occupying their hearts and minds and they just didn't want to get into their past marital problems with the general public. Can't say I blame them.

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 08:54 PM
A doctor from Rady's believes he was suffocated. The link is on the Max death thread.

Now that the search warrants are released, Max's parents can ask the ME to change the manner of death. I think they will do that and he'll agree. I've always thought the only reason he classified it as an accident was out of respect for RZ.

JMO

MyBelle
09-22-2011, 08:58 PM
You do realize what they were going through at that time right? I mean, I really do think we should lay low on judging grieving parents. If they had not put out a statement, people would be hollering. Maybe they downplayed it all, but the public would have a feeding frenzy if they hadn't. And maybe the dying of their child was occupying their hearts and minds and they just didn't want to get into their past marital problems with the general public. Can't say I blame them.

I agree. I don't blame the parents and certainly wouldn't blame them if they file a lawsuit against the lawyer lobbing all the accusations and innuendo.

JMO

steff13
09-23-2011, 12:16 AM
Now that the search warrants are released, Max's parents can ask the ME to change the manner of death. I think they will do that and he'll agree. I've always thought the only reason he classified it as an accident was out of respect for RZ.

JMO

I think you have to do more than ask to have a manner of death changed. Regardless, the MEs usually have the hospital records when the do the autopsy. Just because we are just finding out that there was a doctor who thought it might be suffocation doesn't meant the ME didn't know it when he made his determination.

I also don't think that they "fudge" the manners of death out of respect for others. That's just my opinion, but it doesn't seem like the process would be very reliable or scientific if they did that sort of thing.

rosemary
09-23-2011, 02:04 AM
Now that the search warrants are released, Max's parents can ask the ME to change the manner of death. I think they will do that and he'll agree. I've always thought the only reason he classified it as an accident was out of respect for RZ.

JMO

if that's the case then the ME shouldn't be relied upon to give an accurate analysis of both Max's and Rebecca's deaths. If the ME is capable of fudging Max's death out of respect for Rebecca, why shouldn't we believe that he is also capable of fudging Rebecca's death out of respect for Max's family?

MyBelle
09-23-2011, 02:24 AM
if that's the case then the ME shouldn't be relied upon to give an accurate analysis of both Max's and Rebecca's deaths. If the ME is capable of fudging Max's death out of respect for Rebecca, why shouldn't we believe that he is also capable of fudging Rebecca's death out of respect for Max's family?

I think Max's dad agrees with you and that's why he asked the AG to review the protocols. Fudging Max's manner of death wouldn't be showing respect for Max's family. In fact, it would be just the opposite if Max's death was a homicide.

all, JMO

MyBelle
09-23-2011, 02:30 AM
I think you have to do more than ask to have a manner of death changed. Regardless, the MEs usually have the hospital records when the do the autopsy. Just because we are just finding out that there was a doctor who thought it might be suffocation doesn't meant the ME didn't know it when he made his determination.

I also don't think that they "fudge" the manners of death out of respect for others. That's just my opinion, but it doesn't seem like the process would be very reliable or scientific if they did that sort of thing.

An insider posted here that Max's mother believes he was suffocated. I think she could make a very persuasive argument to the ME about changing the manner of death.

There is clearly more to what has gone on than we've been told. ME's don't usually do autopsies on deaths in hospitals which is yet another clue that there is more to this case than what we've been told.

JMO

rosemary
09-23-2011, 05:20 AM
I think Max's dad agrees with you and that's why he asked the AG to review the protocols. Fudging Max's manner of death wouldn't be showing respect for Max's family. In fact, it would be just the opposite if Max's death was a homicide.

all, JMO

If we are to believe that Rebecca had actually committed suicide, she most likely staged it to look like a homicide. Now if we are also to believe that the ME had lied or even fudged Max's death out of respect for Rebecca, he should also have ruled her death as murder out of respect for her, since that may have been what she wanted. Instead, he insisted that he believed Rebecca's death to be a suicide despite her family's outcry. So how does that actually show that he was biased towards Rebecca?

Btw, Jonah also agreed with the ME and the LE's findings that Max's death was an accident. Now if the ME had lied about Max's death out of respect for Rebecca, do you honestly think that Jonah would actually agree to that?

I personally believe that the ME may have just been merely incompetent rather than biased towards anyone in this case. (imo)

rosemary
09-23-2011, 05:31 AM
An insider posted here that Max's mother believes he was suffocated. I think she could make a very persuasive argument to the ME about changing the manner of death.

how so? if the LE had ruled Max's death as an accident, getting the manner of his death changed would also mean that the LE would need to have to take another look at Rebecca's 'suicide' and may even need to change her manner of death as well. That would mean both investigations were not as thorough and iron clad as the LE claimed.


There is clearly more to what has gone on than we've been told. ME's don't usually do autopsies on deaths in hospitals which is yet another clue that there is more to this case than what we've been told.

All the more reason why both deaths need to be investigated again. The LE and the ME clearly did not do their jobs properly if Dina and Rebecca's family are not satisfied or still have unresolved questions regarding their loved ones' manner of deaths.

steff13
09-23-2011, 07:21 AM
An insider posted here that Max's mother believes he was suffocated. I think she could make a very persuasive argument to the ME about changing the manner of death.

There is clearly more to what has gone on than we've been told. ME's don't usually do autopsies on deaths in hospitals which is yet another clue that there is more to this case than what we've been told.

JMO

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that. I doubt that Max's mother could make an argument persuasive enough for the ME to overlook his own findings and conclusions. If there is a new investigation that turns up new evidence, that's a different story.

Do you have a link to verify that MEs don't usually do autopsies of people who died in the hospital? That doesn't sound right to me. It may not be the majority, but I would assume that a fair number of people who die at the hospital are autopsied.

I don't know know about California, but here in Ohio, the law states that an autopsy is automatically done on a child under the age of 7, regardless of the cause of death.

Also, as was stated, the doctor at the hospital didn't know why Max was in cardiac arrest. Since the wound to his neck caused the cardiac arrest, and the doctor didn't know what had caused the cardiac arrest, we can conclude that the doctor either didn't know the severity of the wound, or wasn't aware of the fact that Max's type of injury caused cardiac arrest, which made the injury suspicious from his POV. That is enough to warrant a autopsy.

Here is a list of 25 reasons why an autopsy might be warranted. I would say at least numbers 4, 5, and 10 apply to Max's case:
http://montereytrust.com/coroner.htm

Rhyme & Reason
09-24-2011, 05:11 AM
All the more reason why an independent investigation is needed.

Max's death, while tragic, doesn't seem to be as unusual as Rebecca's. Anyone who has raised healthy, energetic, impulsive young boys knows the risks of accidents in the home, especially where stairs are involved. At that age, they have no fear or sense of personal danger. They just want to have fun and to them, all the world is a playground. I had a younger brother, like that. Exuberant, energetic and, in spite of older siblings and a mother watching out, he always seemed to end up in the ER or at the doctors office for a sprain, stitches or a broken bone. He did everything at 100 mph. The old fashioned term was "accident prone".

OTOH, Rebecca's death was highly unusual, very bizarre, especially coming so soon after Max's tragic death. In an extended family filled with jealousy, hostility,and resentment its natural to assume the worst. Any lower or middle class family in this situation would have been subjected to more scrutiny than we've seen in this case.

Both deaths are tragic, both should be more fully investigated.

:goodpost:

SunnieRN
09-24-2011, 05:50 AM
Thank you for posting this information, IWannaKnow. Unbelievable how quick he gets a response. Most people wait awhile before hearing back from the AG...at least two months or more. Good grief...

You know the old saying my friend.... Money talks, the rest of it just walks!!


We're going to have to agree to disagree on that. I doubt that Max's mother could make an argument persuasive enough for the ME to overlook his own findings and conclusions. If there is a new investigation that turns up new evidence, that's a different story.

Do you have a link to verify that MEs don't usually do autopsies of people who died in the hospital? That doesn't sound right to me. It may not be the majority, but I would assume that a fair number of people who die at the hospital are autopsied.

I don't know know about California, but here in Ohio, the law states that an autopsy is automatically done on a child under the age of 7, regardless of the cause of death.

Also, as was stated, the doctor at the hospital didn't know why Max was in cardiac arrest. Since the wound to his neck caused the cardiac arrest, and the doctor didn't know what had caused the cardiac arrest, we can conclude that the doctor either didn't know the severity of the wound, or wasn't aware of the fact that Max's type of injury caused cardiac arrest, which made the injury suspicious from his POV. That is enough to warrant a autopsy.

Here is a list of 25 reasons why an autopsy might be warranted. I would say at least numbers 4, 5, and 10 apply to Max's case:
http://montereytrust.com/coroner.htm

This was a great post and the article is very informative. I knew a lot of the 'rules' as we deal with them in a hospital setting, but there were some I was not aware of.

I snipped the list, so here it is!!


Not all deaths are reportable to the Coroner. Those deaths that are reportable fall into 25 categories. Those categories are:

1. No physician in attendance.

2. Medical attendance less than 24 hours (hospital or residence).

3. Wherein the deceased has not been attended by a physician in the 20 days prior to death.

4. Wherein the physician is unable to state the cause of death.

5. Known or suspected homicide.

6. Known or suspected suicide.

7. Involving any criminal action or suspicion of a criminal act.

8. Related to or following a known or suspected self-induced or criminal abortion.

9. Associated with a known or alleged rape of crime against nature.

10. Following an accident or injury, old or recent, (primary or contributory, occurring immediately or at some remote time.)

11. All deaths due to drowning, fire, hanging, gunshot, stabbing, cutting, starvation, exposure, acute alcoholism, drug addiction, strangulation or aspiration.

12. Accidental poisoning, (food, chemical agent, drug or therapeutic agent).

13. Occupational disease or occupational hazards.

14. Known or suspected contagious disease constituting a public health hazard, including AIDS.

15. All deaths in operating rooms.

16. All deaths where the patient has not fully recovered from an anesthetic whether in surgery, recovery room or elsewhere.

17. All deaths wherein the patient expired within 24 hours of an operation or surgical procedure.

18. All deaths in which the patient was comatose throughout the period of the physician’s attendance, whether at home or hospital.

19. All solitary deaths.

20. All deaths of unidentified persons.

21. All deaths where the suspected cause of death is Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (Crib Death).

22. All deaths in prison, jails or of persons under the control of a law enforcement agency.

23. All deaths of patients in state mental hospitals.

24. Wherein there is no known next of kin.

25. Fetal deaths of older than 20 weeks gestational age.


I knew the first 6, 15-17, as I used to be an OR manager. (Thank God we never lost a patient). 21, as we had a baby in ER one time that they suspected was a death due to SIDS, but I was unaware of the remainder. Thank you, very interesting!!

Paladine
09-24-2011, 08:12 AM
Hey all :wave: I leave for a few weeks and BOY does this thing blow open! Now, Rebecca's in 'hot cases' and has a forum! :)

Sorry for having to jump ship :( I have been going through rigorous re-training at work and I'm sleeping 11 hours a night! Today, I'm off...so a little time to catch up. And I doubt there's enough hours in the day with all these threads...;) But I'll try...if anyone feels like giving me a recap to help me out...please pm. :)

Now...to reading.

greenpalm
09-24-2011, 08:30 AM
This one applies to Max as well.



18. All deaths in which the patient was comatose throughout the period of the physician’s attendance, whether at home or hospital.

Paladine
09-24-2011, 08:36 AM
IMO

I wonder....is there an attempt at diversion? LOOK! SHINY RED OBJECT OVER HERE!!!!

I'm still interested in how that poor woman ended up the way she did and how on God's green earth SDPD could possibly be THIS shoddy in their police work without being corrupt? Are they simply nimwits?

THAT'S where I stand and what I wonder...for the record. ;)

Paladine
09-24-2011, 08:44 AM
hypothetical: if Dina manages to have the coroner change the manner of death to homicide, then IF eventually Rebeccas is deemed a homicide...and considering the closeness of events...it may create mitigating circumstances for Rebeccas perp, possibly? Is that the plan?

Paladine
09-24-2011, 11:27 AM
ahh...so let's continue with this hypothetical:

If a police dept felt public pressure to re-open a case that they had closed for a 'dear friend', let's say...would they then show the courtesy, let's call it, of reopening the 1st case, allowing a legal 'out' for that 'dear friend' and/or assoc., in the least...? A 'tit for tat' situation. And...if the media cannot be stopped from talking about this case, perhaps the best diversion is another case, one not so concentrated on Rebecca as a victim...but as a perp. Maybe they want us to start digging up stuff on her and trashing her, knowing our love and passion for helping missing and wounded children? ALL IMO...but it stinks.

That's the thing when an investigation appears shoddy, to say the very least, imo...nothing thereafter is taken as fact, at face value; trust erodes and from what I've read, it's been eroding in San Diego for quite some time. We need a forum on THAT! IMO

Where's Yuri when ya need him? ;)

coastal
09-24-2011, 09:09 PM
Missed you, Paladine! Welcome back.