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CalElliot
09-20-2011, 03:32 PM
First of warrants

CalElliot
09-20-2011, 03:47 PM
Warrant 11-164
Warrant 11-165

SunnieRN
09-20-2011, 03:56 PM
Oh my, a clump of hair was taken into evidence. Thank you CalElliot for posting these.

stilettos
09-20-2011, 04:00 PM
Oh my, a clump of hair was taken into evidence. Thank you CalElliot for posting these.

OK...I want to know whose hair is that? Rebecca's? How did it get there...man...so many questions unanswered.

CalElliot
09-20-2011, 04:08 PM
The text from AS to JS that RZ "killed herself" is utterly perplexing. If he wasn't able to reach JS, why not leave a voicemail. Or something like..."URGENT EMERGENCY RE REBECCA. ALREADY CALLED 911. CALL ME"

SunnieRN
09-20-2011, 04:10 PM
Also the statement that Jonah told Dina that Rebecca killed herself, that morning. No doubt in his mind it appears.:innocent:

CDS22
09-20-2011, 04:20 PM
Interesting. We now know that the police do have JS's phone, which means they can verify he did contact RZ when he said he did. We also know that AS was told to remove the blue cloth from RZ.

KarenM
09-20-2011, 04:25 PM
The text from AS to JS that RZ "killed herself" is utterly perplexing. If he wasn't able to reach JS, why not leave a voicemail. Or something like..."URGENT EMERGENCY RE REBECCA. ALREADY CALLED 911. CALL ME"

This is major. AZ did not find Rebecca lying in a bloody bathtub with slashed wrist. Why did he immediately think Rebecca killed herself? If Rebecca was found hanged in her own bedroom, clothed and unbound, maybe the first impression could be suicide. But with hands/feet bound, mouth gagged, hanging outside nude? Looks like an execution style death more than anything else. (Isn't this the way many of the victims were hanged by the Mexican druglord in the Mexican border cities?)

The text message should say RZ died or was found hanged to be reasonable. To me, this is a red flag.

Betty P
09-20-2011, 04:25 PM
Thanks for posting this. A lot to read.

CDS22
09-20-2011, 04:29 PM
This is major. AZ did not find Rebecca lying in a bloody bathtub with slashed wrist. Why did he immediately think Rebecca killed herself?

The message should say RZ died or was found hanged to be reasonable. To me, this is a redflag.

I'd have assumed it was suicide, too, particularly after what happened to MS.

SunnieRN
09-20-2011, 04:33 PM
Karen I agree. That, along with Adams lie detector test being inconclusive makes me think about things!

stilettos
09-20-2011, 04:33 PM
Well my first thought finding someone bound hand and foot and gagged would not be suicide. Just saying.

KarenM
09-20-2011, 04:38 PM
I'd have assumed it was suicide, too, particularly after what happened to MS.

That was Day 2 or Day 3 of Max's incident. AS would not have known much or had time to analyze MS's death in details except for being informed an accident happened in the house. Rebecca was not even MS's real mother, why would AS think she committed suicdie over it? If JS indeeded called RZ and told her MS turned for the worse at midnight, AS would not have knowledge of that call either in the early morning.

Betty P
09-20-2011, 04:39 PM
On page 9 of the first warrant, the responding officer states that as a result of his initial investigation - looking at the scene, the victim, interviewing witnesses, etc. he believed RZ's death was a homicide.

Can someone tell us if DNA kits, etc. as listed in the warrant are normally included if they were kits used by LE in the investigation? Or does this indicate they were found there when the officers arrived?

lauriej
09-20-2011, 04:40 PM
http://www.10news.com/pdf/29245478/detail.html
--S/W #2--items removed from the mansion--

1.knife
2.pair of black gloves
3.paper towel w/ red stains
4.box w/ paint supplies
5.dr. pepper bottle
6.clothing
7.flip camera
8.basket w/ cameras
9.stain kit
10.clump of hair
11.document addressed to jonah
12.tissue w/ red stain
13.clothing
14.hair
15.receipt for paint supplies
16.candle
17.water bottle
18.bedding
19.2 plastic cups
20.underwear
21.black latex glove
22.table
23.greeting card
24.paper w/ writing
25.bedding
26.butcher knife
27.steak knife
28.white plastic bag
29.rope
30.samsung cell phone
31.paint brush
32.stain kit
33.small paint brush
34.green and white striped towel
35.bedroom door
36.tube of black paint
37.laptop computer
38.mac computer
39.olympus camera
40.lumix camera
41.swab kit
42.swab kit
43.swab kit
44.dna swab
45.print cards

Curious Me
09-20-2011, 04:45 PM
Well, both parents left the hospital more than some have thought.

Another person pops up that Rebecca had to drive to the airport - some Howard. Geez.

CDS22
09-20-2011, 04:47 PM
That was Day 2 or Day 3 of Max's incident. AS would not have known much or had time to analyze MS's death in details except for being informed an accident happened in the house. Rebecca was not even MS's real mother, why would AS think she committed suicdie over it? If JS indeeded called RZ and told her MS turned for the worse at midnight, AS would not have knowledge of that call either in the early morning.

Perhaps if we had details of MS's death, we'd know more about why RZ could possibly feel suicidal.

And don't forget, according to RZ's family and the dog guy, RZ referred to MS as her "son".

Pach
09-20-2011, 04:49 PM
I have lived in several 3rd world countries, and I thought I point out that one way they slaughter small animals like goat is to tie up the goat's feet, hang by the neck , burn off the hair , etc. human victims has also been killed/tortured in this cruel manner. heres an example:
http://www.ishr.org/Methods-of-torture-in-the-People-s-Republic-of-China.1047.0.html


Well my first thought finding someone bound hand and foot and gagged would not be suicide. Just saying.

lauriej
09-20-2011, 04:50 PM
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15505829/some-shacknai-search-warrants-to-be-unsealed

"Dina returned to the hospital on July 12, 2011, at about 1800 hours. Rebecca and Adam came to the hospital to pick up Jonah and his friend, Howard. They left the hospital, dropped off Howard at the airport then went to eat some dinner. Jonah returned to the hospital around 2000 hours and Dina was still there. Rebecca and Adam returned to the residence in Coronado.

(Jonah) left the hospital around 0100 hours and went to Ronald McDonald House. Dina stayed at the hospital. (Jonah) returned to the hospital on July 13, 2011 at about 0700 hours and Dina was still there."

...if jonah was supposed to have left rebecca a voice mail @ 12:30, that maxie's condition was "grave and death was imminent"--( causing her to kill herself over it )---it would make no sense for him to then leave maxie's side--and crash @ the ronald mcdonald house for 6 hours.

Pach
09-20-2011, 05:03 PM
anyone know anybody who hanged out at ronald mcdonald house for 6 hours ?

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15505829/some-shacknai-search-warrants-to-be-unsealed

"Dina returned to the hospital on July 12, 2011, at about 1800 hours. Rebecca and Adam came to the hospital to pick up Jonah and his friend, Howard. They left the hospital, dropped off Howard at the airport then went to eat some dinner. Jonah returned to the hospital around 2000 hours and Dina was still there. Rebecca and Adam returned to the residence in Coronado.

(Jonah) left the hospital around 0100 hours and went to Ronald McDonald House. Dina stayed at the hospital. (Jonah) returned to the hospital on July 13, 2011 at about 0700 hours and Dina was still there."

...if jonah was supposed to have left rebecca a voice mail @ 12:30, that maxie's condition was "grave and death was imminent"--( causing her to kill herself over it )---it would make no sense for him to then leave maxie's side--and crash @ the ronald mcdonald house for 6 hours.

October
09-20-2011, 05:14 PM
I'd have assumed it was suicide, too, particularly after what happened to MS.

I would think that the gag and bindings wouldn't have made this immediately clear to him.

Rhyme & Reason
09-20-2011, 05:18 PM
Oh my, a clump of hair was taken into evidence. Thank you CalElliot for posting these.

Yes, the hair and the gloves!!

CalElliot
09-20-2011, 05:22 PM
Rebecca was a health food fan. Who was drinking Dr. Pepper?

stilettos
09-20-2011, 05:24 PM
Rebecca was a health food fan. Who was drinking Dr. Pepper?

Really good question.

sdcali
09-20-2011, 05:27 PM
whoa!!!

AS texts JS that Rebecca is dead????? WHAT?????

I skimmed the search warrants and just off the top here is something else that popped out at me...

DS went to her coronado home at 0800 and returned to the hospital at 2000 (8 pm). Her twin sister Nina, who was staying at DS home, texts Rebecca and wants to come over to talk to her at 10:41 pm the same night.

I really want to know if DS and her sister are identical twins...

thinkingstraight
09-20-2011, 05:28 PM
Really good question.

Yes, the murderer left his/her dr pepper complete with saliva all over and in it.

Cortne
09-20-2011, 05:31 PM
Texting info isnt a red flag to me.

All the moving around by the fam def is. Something told me they were not at the hosp as much as org said, or assumed. Oh boy.

October
09-20-2011, 05:32 PM
Interesting. From the PDF, bottom of page 10 in the detective's statement:

"Based on my training and experience and my initial investigation I believed that based on the fact that the Asian female had her hands and legs bound and was found in the condition that she was found by Adam Schacknai that she was a victim of a homicide."

So the detective initially thought that it was likely a homicide. Even more bizarre that Adam would jump to the conclusion that it was a suicide. I would think that he would reserve judgement initially.

LadyL
09-20-2011, 05:36 PM
anyone know anybody who hanged out at ronald mcdonald house for 6 hours ?

it's a place for families of ill/dying children to stay - usually it is very near the hospital - so that the parents/siblings don't have to travel & can be close by at all times

stilettos
09-20-2011, 05:37 PM
Yes, the murderer left his/her dr pepper complete with saliva all over and in it.

Actually it could be as simple as someone else in the family was in that room...but then why would there be absolutely no fingerprints whatsoever besides Rebecca's there? I guess no one in the family, cleaning crew or anyone else has ever been in that room before.

Cortne
09-20-2011, 05:38 PM
Did the surveillance question ever get answered about the RMC House? Hmmm

stilettos
09-20-2011, 05:40 PM
it's a place for families of ill/dying children to stay - usually it is very near the hospital - so that the parents/siblings don't have to travel & can be close by at all times

Most parents that I know that have just received the news that their child had taken a "turn for the worse and was dying" would not be leaving their side for hours....BUT that may just be most parents in my experience. WS has taught me that there are some very strange behaviors amongst my fellow man.

steff13
09-20-2011, 05:41 PM
I'd have assumed it was suicide, too, particularly after what happened to MS.

I think it's reasonable to assume suicide. I don't know that I would have texted it, but it would have been my first guess as to what happened.

steff13
09-20-2011, 05:49 PM
I would think that the gag and bindings wouldn't have made this immediately clear to him.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the bindings. Maybe I wouldn't have assumed suicide.

SunnieRN
09-20-2011, 05:51 PM
Interesting. We now know that the police do have JS's phone, which means they can verify he did contact RZ when he said he did. We also know that AS was told to remove the blue cloth from RZ.

They had the records fromhis phone through a sealed search warrant. This means that JS didn't know LE had the records. Maybe important, maybe not.

Perhaps if we had details of MS's death, we'd know more about why RZ could possibly feel suicidal.

And don't forget, according to RZ's family and the dog guy, RZ referred to MS as her "son".

Just curious what kind of details you are referring to? And what does how Rebecca addressed Max to 'the dog guy' have to do with it?:waitasec:

Cortne
09-20-2011, 05:52 PM
Most parents that I know that have just received the news that their child had taken a "turn for the worse and was dying" would not be leaving their side for hours....BUT that may just be most parents in my experience. WS has taught me that there are some very strange behaviors amongst my fellow man.

Totally doesnt add up at all. I am sure there has to be more to sift thru. Dunno anymore how this was ruled a suicide but I am open as long as the truth is found. Things are not always as they seem, either way.

That said, I am known for telling anybody that is to be responsible for my children when I am not around they better keep a safe eye on my child as I would not want to have to kill them, accident or not. And Im dead serious. You know what I mean friends and I will leave it at that lol.

Just being honest.

katydid23
09-20-2011, 05:57 PM
anyone know anybody who hanged out at ronald mcdonald house for 6 hours ?

Families with children in the ICU do. They sleep and shower in between their vigils at the bedside.

katydid23
09-20-2011, 06:02 PM
Most parents that I know that have just received the news that their child had taken a "turn for the worse and was dying" would not be leaving their side for hours....BUT that may just be most parents in my experience. WS has taught me that there are some very strange behaviors amongst my fellow man.

I don't think he just received the news. I think he just finally had the energy or focus to actually call RN and tell her how he felt about her 'failing' his son.

I do not believe he learned anything knew about max's condition that night, I just think he was finally accepting it, and thus accepting that his girlfriend allowed him to somehow land on the bottom of the stairs. I think he called her and told her to leave. imoo

CDS22
09-20-2011, 06:12 PM
Families with children in the ICU do. They sleep and shower in between their vigils at the bedside.

I was going to say that 6 hours is not a long time for a RMcD house stay. Most parents are so exhausted from their vigils that they shower and sleep for at least 8 hours, knowing that someone else is keeping watch so they can rest.

SmoothOperator
09-20-2011, 06:22 PM
Am I understanding the warrants correctly in that it's requested to defer notification to the subscriber of each cell phone in question.. Meaning that LE felt it necessary they withheld the information from each of the cell phone owners that they were indeed going thru their wireless provider to receive all of their cell phone records?? That is exactly how I understood UT to read in the last set of warrants..

Stating they felt the entire investigation could be totally destroyed if the owners of the cell phones were told that there phones were being searched.. That they could attempt to intervene and thwart the investigation or ATLEAST to destroy or hide important info that was held in the cell records..

I must say this is the first time I had seen this action taken, even in the Billie Dunn and Shawn Adkins mess they were told of the cell phone searches but here it was intentionally with held from each of the cell phone owners with probable cause to indicate there would be attempts at thwarting the investigation if the owners were told there phones were under intense scrutiny..

I certainly wonder what was found to be the time stamp on NR's text msg to Rebecca for the strange, late night, face to face "talk" that she desperately needed to have at such a late night hour..

Hmmm.. Definitely alot to think on..

sdcali
09-20-2011, 06:24 PM
Texting info isnt a red flag to me.

All the moving around by the fam def is. Something told me they were not at the hosp as much as org said, or assumed. Oh boy.

IMO

AS texting the news of Rebecca's death to JS is more than a red flag--it's blantantly impersonal.

As someone else posted, there were other ways to get that message to JS...none as cold as the one AS chose.

Cortne
09-20-2011, 06:34 PM
Am I understanding the warrants correctly in that it's requested to defer notification to the subscriber of each cell phone in question.. Meaning that LE felt it necessary they withheld the information from each of the cell phone owners that they were indeed going thru their wireless provider to receive all of their cell phone records?? That is exactly how I understood UT to read in the last set of warrants..

Stating they felt the entire investigation could be totally destroyed if the owners of the cell phones were told that there phones were being searched.. That they could attempt to intervene and thwart the investigation or ATLEAST to destroy or hide important info that was held in the cell records..

I must say this is the first time I had seen this action taken, even in the Billie Dunn and Shawn Adkins mess they were told of the cell phone searches but here it was intentionally with held from each of the cell phone owners with probable cause to indicate there would be attempts at thwarting the investigation if the owners were told there phones were under intense scrutiny..

I certainly wonder what was found to be the time stamp on NR's text msg to Rebecca for the strange, late night, face to face "talk" that she desperately needed to have at such a late night hour..

Hmmm.. Definitely alot to think on..

I assumed this must be standard? Guess not? Wow.

Cortne
09-20-2011, 06:37 PM
IMO

AS texting the news of Rebecca's death to JS is more than a red flag--it's blantantly impersonal.

As someone else posted, there were other ways to get that message to JS...none as cold as the one AS chose.

I might be wrong but I dont think Rebecca was high on anybodys list of respect at this time. Cept for taxi to and from and perhaps a late night chat...

SmoothOperator
09-20-2011, 06:56 PM
IMO

AS texting the news of Rebecca's death to JS is more than a red flag--it's blantantly impersonal.*

As someone else posted, there were other ways to get that message to JS...none as cold as the one AS chose.

ITA especially given the fact that Jonah was not even at the hospital at this time, but rather He'd left the hospital many hours prior around 1 am and was still gone at 6:48am when Adam sent the text msg that "Rebecca had hung herself".. This is confirmed thru Dina's statement that she received a call at the hospital from Jonah at 7am(so obviously he was still not at the hospital at this time) when he informs Dina that Rebecca had killed herself..

One other tidbit that stands out to me from the warrants is that obviously according to the warraants Adam actually contacted Jonah with the "Rebecca hung herself" text BEFORE he even called 911!!! How did I reach this conclusion??

It is stated in the warrants that Adam sent the text message to Jonah's phone at 6:48am.. Also stated in the warrants is that Adam called 911 dispatch at 6:48am.. One may say well how do we know he didn't call 911 and then text Jonah?? Nope, not likely at all given the fact that the warrant also states that during the 911 call btwn Adam and dispatch he is told by them to remove the tshirt from Rebecca's mouth.. This indicates, as is usual procedure the caller does spend ATLEAST some length of time on the phone with dispatch, even if just a few mins.. Obviously that is the case here as well as we know for certain that there was definitely dialogue taking place btwn Adam and dispatcher and had to have been longer than 60 secs time for him to relay all necessary details they need to even dispatch much less get around to telling him to remove anything from the victims mouth, meaning likely they were prepping him and her to begin CPR until EMTs arrived.. My point is obviously Adam's call to 911 lasted well over 60 secs meaning that the text message to Jonah Shacknai occurred at6:48am prior to the 911 call that had to have followed the text msg due to the length of time the call would have lasted..

This IMO only making the flag that much bigger and that much redder!!!!!!

elementry
09-20-2011, 07:05 PM
Totally doesnt add up at all. I am sure there has to be more to sift thru. Dunno anymore how this was ruled a suicide but I am open as long as the truth is found. Things are not always as they seem, either way.

That said, I am known for telling anybody that is to be responsible for my children when I am not around they better keep a safe eye on my child as I would not want to have to kill them, accident or not. And Im dead serious. You know what I mean friends and I will leave it at that lol.

Just being honest.

Your babysitters must be thrilled........:crazy:

So, JOnah was alone and presumably unseen from 10PM to 7 AM that morning (or at least a good portion of it)? I am wondering how absolutely secure and verifiable thecomings and goings at the Ronald McDonald house is. Sure one can check in by key or whatever; are there other exits? Windows? Has anyone verified Ronald McDonald's whereabouts that evening?

time
09-20-2011, 07:11 PM
Your babysitters must be thrilled........:crazy:

So, JOnah was alone and presumably unseen from 10PM to 7 AM that morning (or at least a good portion of it)? I am wondering how absolutely secure and verifiable thecomings and goings at the Ronald McDonald house is. Sure one can check in by key or whatever; are there other exits? Windows? Has anyone verified Ronald McDonald's whereabouts that evening?


Something tells me they didn't exactly verify all of Jonah's whereabouts let alone Ronnie :(

elementry
09-20-2011, 07:14 PM
ITA especially given the fact that Jonah was not even at the hospital at this time, but rather supposedly at his Homestead Hotel room(since RMcDH was full).. He'd left the hospital many hours prior around 1 am and was still gone at 6:48am when Adam sent the text msg that "Rebecca had hung herself".. This is confirmed thru Dina's statement that she received a call at the hospital from Jonah at 7am(so obviously he was still not at the hospital at this time) when he informs Dina that Rebecca had killed herself..

One other tidbit that stands out to me from the warrants is that obviously according to the warraants Adam actually contacted Jonah with the "Rebecca hung herself" text BEFORE he even called 911!!! How did I reach this conclusion??

It is stated in the warrants that Adam sent the text message to Jonah's phone at 6:48am.. Also stated in the warrants is that Adam called 911 dispatch at 6:48am.. One may say well how do we know he didn't call 911 and then text Jonah?? Nope, not likely at all given the fact that the warrant also states that during the 911 call btwn Adam and dispatch he is told by them to remove the tshirt from Rebecca's mouth.. This indicates, as is usual procedure the caller does spend ATLEAST some length of time on the phone with dispatch, even if just a few mins.. Obviously that is the case here as well as we know for certain that there was definitely dialogue taking place btwn Adam and dispatcher and had to have been longer than 60 secs time for him to relay all necessary details they need to even dispatch much less get around to telling him to remove anything from the victims mouth, meaning likely they were prepping him and her to begin CPR until EMTs arrived.. My point is obviously Adam's call to 911 lasted well over 60 secs meaning that the text message to Jonah Shacknai occurred at6:48am prior to the 911 call that had to have followed the text msg due to the length of time the call would have lasted..

This IMO only making the flag that much bigger and that much redder!!!!!!

Guess I need to read the new reports. So he was at another hotel that evening? I hadn't heard that previously. And from 1 AM to almost 7 AM? Why didn't LE relate those wrinkles in their presentation? One supposes that LE does have something to hang their hats on regarding verifying JS'sactual whereabouts at the times in question. Still no verification possible it seems regarding NR and AS.

time
09-20-2011, 07:21 PM
ITA especially given the fact that Jonah was not even at the hospital at this time, but rather supposedly at his Homestead Hotel room(since RMcDH was full).. He'd left the hospital many hours prior around 1 am and was still gone at 6:48am when Adam sent the text msg that "Rebecca had hung herself".. This is confirmed thru Dina's statement that she received a call at the hospital from Jonah at 7am(so obviously he was still not at the hospital at this time) when he informs Dina that Rebecca had killed herself..

One other tidbit that stands out to me from the warrants is that obviously according to the warraants Adam actually contacted Jonah with the "Rebecca hung herself" text BEFORE he even called 911!!! How did I reach this conclusion??

It is stated in the warrants that Adam sent the text message to Jonah's phone at 6:48am.. Also stated in the warrants is that Adam called 911 dispatch at 6:48am.. One may say well how do we know he didn't call 911 and then text Jonah?? Nope, not likely at all given the fact that the warrant also states that during the 911 call btwn Adam and dispatch he is told by them to remove the tshirt from Rebecca's mouth.. This indicates, as is usual procedure the caller does spend ATLEAST some length of time on the phone with dispatch, even if just a few mins.. Obviously that is the case here as well as we know for certain that there was definitely dialogue taking place btwn Adam and dispatcher and had to have been longer than 60 secs time for him to relay all necessary details they need to even dispatch much less get around to telling him to remove anything from the victims mouth, meaning likely they were prepping him and her to begin CPR until EMTs arrived.. My point is obviously Adam's call to 911 lasted well over 60 secs meaning that the text message to Jonah Shacknai occurred at6:48am prior to the 911 call that had to have followed the text msg due to the length of time the call would have lasted..

This IMO only making the flag that much bigger and that much redder!!!!!!


Good analysis. I think you are right.

On the cynical side...

The text seems cold, but maybe that is because it was just to claim Jonah had been notified for bookkeeping sake.

This reminds me of the note on the door - difficult to tell WHO wrote it.

A text shows no emotion and no voice recorded on either end. Again, a much smaller chance of analyzing anything (or possibly slipping up , making a mistake).

stilettos
09-20-2011, 07:24 PM
Your babysitters must be thrilled........:crazy:

So, JOnah was alone and presumably unseen from 10PM to 7 AM that morning (or at least a good portion of it)? I am wondering how absolutely secure and verifiable thecomings and goings at the Ronald McDonald house is. Sure one can check in by key or whatever; are there other exits? Windows? Has anyone verified Ronald McDonald's whereabouts that evening?

IDK but it would not surprise me to find out LE missed the red wig at the mansion.:crazy:

time
09-20-2011, 07:31 PM
I don't know where to put this, but it's the location of Jonah's Hotel - 7444 Mission Valley Road, San Diego, CA

Hotels & Motels loc: 3020 Childrens Way, San Diego, CA 92123 - Google Maps

9.7 miles, 17 minutes from Coronado (I didn't put in the actual house address)

SmoothOperator
09-20-2011, 07:38 PM
Elementry you're correct it was the night before that he'd stayed at the hotel.. The night in question he left the hospital around 1 am, supposedly stayed at RMcDH and was not at the hospital at 6:48am when Adam text him, nor was he at the hospital at 7am when he called Dina at the hospital to tell her Rebecca had killed herself..

I removed the error from my post stating he's been at the hotel the night in question.. It was infact the night prior.. So you were correct :)

jjenny
09-20-2011, 07:42 PM
So, contrary to what has been reported, AS did not pass a polygraph-it was inconclusive. But the examiner felt AS was truthful. I am not sure polygraph is even administered then, since examiner apparently can be used as a human polygraph detector.

time
09-20-2011, 07:47 PM
Elementry you're correct it was the night before that he'd stayed at the hotel.. The night in question he left the hospital around 1 am, supposedly stayed at RMcDH and was not at the hospital at 6:48am when Adam text him, nor was he at the hospital at 7am when he called Dina at the hospital to tell her Rebecca had killed herself..

I removed the error from my post stating he's been at the hotel the night in question.. It was infact the night prior.. So you were correct :)


Thanks - I had this messed up also.

So, then, did LE confirm he was at RMcDH that night? If so, how?

arielilane
09-20-2011, 07:52 PM
ITA especially given the fact that Jonah was not even at the hospital at this time, but rather He'd left the hospital many hours prior around 1 am and was still gone at 6:48am when Adam sent the text msg that "Rebecca had hung herself".. This is confirmed thru Dina's statement that she received a call at the hospital from Jonah at 7am(so obviously he was still not at the hospital at this time) when he informs Dina that Rebecca had killed herself..

One other tidbit that stands out to me from the warrants is that obviously according to the warraants Adam actually contacted Jonah with the "Rebecca hung herself" text BEFORE he even called 911!!! How did I reach this conclusion??

It is stated in the warrants that Adam sent the text message to Jonah's phone at 6:48am.. Also stated in the warrants is that Adam called 911 dispatch at 6:48am.. One may say well how do we know he didn't call 911 and then text Jonah?? Nope, not likely at all given the fact that the warrant also states that during the 911 call btwn Adam and dispatch he is told by them to remove the tshirt from Rebecca's mouth.. This indicates, as is usual procedure the caller does spend ATLEAST some length of time on the phone with dispatch, even if just a few mins.. Obviously that is the case here as well as we know for certain that there was definitely dialogue taking place btwn Adam and dispatcher and had to have been longer than 60 secs time for him to relay all necessary details they need to even dispatch much less get around to telling him to remove anything from the victims mouth, meaning likely they were prepping him and her to begin CPR until EMTs arrived.. My point is obviously Adam's call to 911 lasted well over 60 secs meaning that the text message to Jonah Shacknai occurred at6:48am prior to the 911 call that had to have followed the text msg due to the length of time the call would have lasted..

This IMO only making the flag that much bigger and that much redder!!!!!! WOW, smoothOperator! Was "Rebecca hung herself" AS's code to JS that the task was done? jmo

stilettos
09-20-2011, 07:53 PM
Thanks - I had this messed up also.

So, then, did LE confirm he was at RMcDH that night? If so, how?

Yeah...and where was Dina? They were not together in the early am when JS called her to report about RZ's death.

Curious Me
09-20-2011, 07:59 PM
Let me get this straight. Please correct me if I got it wrong.
The time JS was back at his son's side was 8 p.m. on July 12th.
JS was not at his son's side, but left to go to the RMD House at 1 a.m. to 7 a.m. on
that July 13th night that RZ died. (he called RZ at 12:50 that night and left the mystery message)

Cortne
09-20-2011, 08:01 PM
Let me get this straight. Please correct me if I got it wrong.
The time JS was back at his son's side was 8 p.m. on July 12th.
JS was not at his son's side, but left to go to the RMD House at 1 a.m. to 7 a.m. on
that July 13th night that RZ died. That is how I read it as well.

SmoothOperator
09-20-2011, 08:15 PM
Yes, curious me you are correct.. JS left the hospital with Howard, Adam and Rebecca at 6:00pm, dropped off Howard at airport, ate dinner with Adam and Rebecca and returned to the hospital at 8:00.. With Adam and Rebecca leaving to go home to Coronado.. At some point during these next few hours they are given the news that Max was not going to make it.. Jonah leaves the hospital at 1 am and says he stayed at RMcDH.. Jonah was still gone from the hospital at 6:48am when Adam sends him text stating "Rebecca hung herself".. And Jonah was still gone from the hospital at 7am when he calls Dina at the hospital to tell her the Rebecca killed herself.. He supposedly returns somepoint soon thereafter making that call to Dina.. Actually in the warrant it states that Jonah returned that morning to the hospital at 7am..

But it also states in the warrant that upon interviewing Dina that she says she received a phonecall from Jonah at 7am to tell her Rebecca had killed herself.. My problem with that is that isn't it strange that if Jonah indeed did return to the hospital at 7am(or even in the direct vicinity of that time) why would he have made a 7am phone call to Dina at the hospital to tell her of the suicide?? If he were about to be there at the hospital(according to warrant states he arrived at 7am) then why in the world would you make a phone call to Dina to tell her of Rebecca's suicide??? Your about to be there at the hospital with Dina.. Why would one call and tell her when they're about to be there in person and would be able to tell her??..

Just something else I picked up on that I found a little odd..

arielilane
09-20-2011, 08:19 PM
Info from warrant.

Curious Me
09-20-2011, 08:21 PM
Is there more on the black gloves and paper towels with red stains? Please tell me LE thought to test every single thing.

arielilane
09-20-2011, 08:22 PM
More info from warrant.

SmoothOperator
09-20-2011, 08:29 PM
IMO this rampant passing of news that Rebecca had hung herself or Rebecca had killed herself in that very small time frame that morning beginning with Adam's text at 6:48am to Jonah stating "Rebecca hung herself".. And then Dina states that at 7am she receives a call while at the hospital.. From Jonah stating that "Rebecca killed herself".. And I'd be willing to be dollars to donuts that the news possibly texted Or called to her twin, Nina that "Rebecca killed herself".. Just seems as tho a strange way of everyone these few ppl referring to this death as self inflicted by Rebecca.. When as is stated in the warrants the investigators on the scene were not in any way of this frame of mind but rather even stating the warrant they assumed it to be a homicide in the beginning.. Yet we've got this circle of ppl all relaying the msg to one another that "Rebecca hung herself" or "Rebecca killed herself".. That is very strange to me..

Just as arielilane mentioned ^above^ did I think the "Rebecca hung herself" may have been code for task is completed.. I know that sounds a little dramatic but considering the extreme dramatic flair that is apparent throughout this entire death I actually find it plausible at the least that this message that quickly circulated within these key ppl could be more than just what it appears to be on the surface..

There is just something very wrong with all of these ppl being completely comfortable in passing along word that Rebecca had killed herself when what was seen by those investigators on the ground and in the home was pointing to homicide, not suicide..

There is something there.. I can't yet put my finger on it .. But I know there is something there that is more than what at the surface it appears to be.. My intuition is very much kicked into high gear with several issues about this case.. Mark my words they are not right!! There is something very wrong!!!

arielilane
09-20-2011, 08:31 PM
Driving directions from 7444 Mission Valley Freeway to Ocean Blvd, Coronado, CA 92118

10.7 mi, 18 mins

SmoothOperator
09-20-2011, 08:41 PM
11.7 miles.. 24 minutes travel time from RMcDH to Shacknai mansion on Ocean Blvd..

Curious Me
09-20-2011, 08:42 PM
Local news Channel 8 CBS tonight reported on the extra footprint pic and info. I'm glad to see the local news being vocal.

justbetweenus
09-20-2011, 08:45 PM
The last doc wouldn't open for me, says it is damaged grrr.

I wonder if Jonah had told Rebecca to leave during that last phone call, and everyone knew he did, or was going to that night. Hence the reason AS thought right away she had hanged herself, along with Jonah thinking the same right away. Just one of many thoughts that run through my mind.

oceanblueeyes
09-20-2011, 08:51 PM
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15505829/some-shacknai-search-warrants-to-be-unsealed

"Dina returned to the hospital on July 12, 2011, at about 1800 hours. Rebecca and Adam came to the hospital to pick up Jonah and his friend, Howard. They left the hospital, dropped off Howard at the airport then went to eat some dinner. Jonah returned to the hospital around 2000 hours and Dina was still there. Rebecca and Adam returned to the residence in Coronado.

(Jonah) left the hospital around 0100 hours and went to Ronald McDonald House. Dina stayed at the hospital. (Jonah) returned to the hospital on July 13, 2011 at about 0700 hours and Dina was still there."

...if jonah was supposed to have left rebecca a voice mail @ 12:30, that maxie's condition was "grave and death was imminent"--( causing her to kill herself over it )---it would make no sense for him to then leave maxie's side--and crash @ the ronald mcdonald house for 6 hours.

It would make sense to me if Jonah had been up many hours and needed to rest. They probably were taking turns staying up at night with him. Max was on life support and Jonah could be there in a few minutes.

He didn't say his death was happening right then. He said Max had taken a turn for the worse and he wasnt declared dead until days later.

IMO

Curious Me
09-20-2011, 08:51 PM
He could've said he was coming home and leave the door open, for all we know. Yes, my mind keeps cranking out thoughts, too.

SmoothOperator
09-20-2011, 08:53 PM
Is there any more info about this pic with showing an additional Footprint??

This is the first I'd heard of it.. TIA..

deanna82437
09-20-2011, 08:59 PM
Is there any more info about this pic with showing an additional Footprint??

This is the first I'd heard of it.. TIA..

There should be more info here.

The footprints/shoeprints on the balcony - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

defense101
09-20-2011, 09:09 PM
I'm curious why the rug they removed from the house isn't on the list?

time
09-20-2011, 09:10 PM
Not sure if this has been posted.
http://www.10news.com/news/29243040/detail.html
Warrants Reveal New Details About Coronado Mansion Death

Read Search Warrant 1: AT&T Wireless Records (PDF) (http://www.10news.com/pdf/29245451/detail.html)
Read Search Warrant 2: Items Seized From Mansion (PDF) (http://www.10news.com/pdf/29245478/detail.html)
Read Search Warrant 3: Verizon Wireless Records (P (http://www.10news.com/pdf/29245515/detail.html)DF)

jjenny
09-20-2011, 09:18 PM
Not sure if this has been posted.
http://www.10news.com/news/29243040/detail.html
Warrants Reveal New Details About Coronado Mansion Death

Read Search Warrant 1: AT&T Wireless Records (PDF) (http://www.10news.com/pdf/29245451/detail.html)
Read Search Warrant 2: Items Seized From Mansion (PDF) (http://www.10news.com/pdf/29245478/detail.html)
Read Search Warrant 3: Verizon Wireless Records (P (http://www.10news.com/pdf/29245515/detail.html)DF)

I did see that article. I wonder why that article omits that AS' polygraph results in itself were inconclusive. The polygraph examiner only felt AS was being truthful, I presume from looking at him? What is the point of actually giving a polygraph then, if an examiner can just feel who is being truthful?

arielilane
09-20-2011, 09:20 PM
This is more than murder, this is a revenge killing. jmo

Yoda
09-20-2011, 09:23 PM
IMO this rampant passing of news that Rebecca had hung herself or Rebecca had killed herself in that very small time frame that morning beginning with Adam's text at 6:48am to Jonah stating "Rebecca hung herself".. And then Dina states that at 7am she receives a call while at the hospital.. From Jonah stating that "Rebecca killed herself".. And I'd be willing to be dollars to donuts that the news possibly texted Or called to her twin, Nina that "Rebecca killed herself".. Just seems as tho a strange way of everyone these few ppl referring to this death as self inflicted by Rebecca.. When as is stated in the warrants the investigators on the scene were not in any way of this frame of mind but rather even stating the warrant they assumed it to be a homicide in the beginning.. Yet we've got this circle of ppl all relaying the msg to one another that "Rebecca hung herself" or "Rebecca killed herself".. That is very strange to me..

Just as arielilane mentioned ^above^ did I think the "Rebecca hung herself" may have been code for task is completed.. I know that sounds a little dramatic but considering the extreme dramatic flair that is apparent throughout this entire death I actually find it plausible at the least that this message that quickly circulated within these key ppl could be more than just what it appears to be on the surface..

There is just something very wrong with all of these ppl being completely comfortable in passing along word that Rebecca had killed herself when what was seen by those investigators on the ground and in the home was pointing to homicide, not suicide..

There is something there.. I can't yet put my finger on it .. But I know there is something there that is more than what at the surface it appears to be.. My intuition is very much kicked into high gear with several issues about this case.. Mark my words they are not right!! There is something very wrong!!!

jS received a three word text about Rebeccas death. He then calls DS. CALLS! He doesn't have any info does he? Did he talk to AS again or the police in that 12 minutes before calling DS? So what is he going to tell DS? Didn't he want more details, confirmation, before telling someone else? he's been away from MS's bedside, why doesn't he go to the house to see what the --- happened. He ran home when he heard about MS- okay, he is his child, but I'm thinking pattern of behavior.

arielilane
09-20-2011, 09:36 PM
Exactly these people accept "Rebecca killed herself", as if they are saying Have a nice day. The coffee taste good. No emotion, no surprise, no nothing....

LaLaw2000
09-20-2011, 10:11 PM
WOW, smoothOperator! Was "Rebecca hung herself" AS's code to JS that the task was done? jmo

My thought exactly, arielilane. The deed was done and 911 had been called.............................:twocents:

curiousjo
09-20-2011, 10:38 PM
Just heard about the AS text to JS! Well, I was on the fence, but now think murder. Who would take the time to type out a text ---let alone send that kind of news via text? You would CALL your brother STAT! Maybe feel a bit scared, thinking a murderer was at the mansion -call 911 STAT and get the heck out.

time
09-20-2011, 11:04 PM
Just heard about the AS text to JS! Well, I was on the fence, but now think murder. Who would take the time to type out a text ---let alone send that kind of news via text? You would CALL your brother STAT! Maybe feel a bit scared, thinking a murderer was at the mansion -call 911 STAT and get the heck out.

Good point on getting out of there or at least being afraid. I know she had been dead for a while, but he did administer CPR so which way is it?

Frankly, I'm starting to wonder if someone would administer CPR for show? Can anyone chime in that knows how a body that had expired nearly 4 hours earlier would look. Seems they look pretty darn dead even at first glance.

defense101
09-20-2011, 11:04 PM
I am amazed at the date of the search warrants for the cell phone records!!! They weren't requested until August 24th. What this imo shows me is they weren't looking into this as a homicide, they only requested the records to back up suicide.

KarenM
09-20-2011, 11:05 PM
Just heard about the AS text to JS! Well, I was on the fence, but now think murder. Who would take the time to type out a text ---let alone send that kind of news via text? You would CALL your brother STAT! Maybe feel a bit scared, thinking a murderer was at the mansion -call 911 STAT and get the heck out.

And why wouldn't Jonah rush back home or at least immediately give AS a call to learn the details? Instead, he called DS to tell her the "news".

time
09-20-2011, 11:09 PM
I am amazed at the date of the search warrants for the cell phone records!!! They weren't requested until August 24th. What this imo shows me is they weren't looking into this as a homicide, they only requested the records to back up suicide.

Wow ... I can't believe they waited that long. The records would provide a lot of useful info. How on earth could they determine what had transpired without having looked at them first? Even if they thought it was a suicide they were majorly basing that on Jonah saying he called and left a message at~ 1am. I'm dumbfounded at the police work here.

CalElliot
09-20-2011, 11:09 PM
There are three more search warrants that have yet to be released from SD court, or has someone seen them?

41290, 41373, 41432

jjenny
09-20-2011, 11:10 PM
And we are still left with the question-is there any physical evidence that JS did call RN at 12:30 am? There is no record of the message on RN's cell phone. Is there anything on his? If he used his cell phone it should have registered an outgoing call.

time
09-20-2011, 11:11 PM
And why wouldn't Jonah rush back home or at least immediately give AS a call to learn the details? Instead, he called DS to tell her the "news".

That just does not seem right, not normal behavior to me. Maybe he called Dina to say he needed to leave and she said no way it was his turn to stay at the hospital and made him feel guilty? Even so, I think I'd go back home and talk with the police. How could you just sit in the hospital and not go find out if, in fact, you just learned you partner was hanged?

CDS22
09-20-2011, 11:12 PM
Good point on getting out of there or at least being afraid. I know she had been dead for a while, but he did administer CPR so which way is it?

Frankly, I'm starting to wonder if someone would administer CPR for show? Can anyone chime in that knows how a body that had expired nearly 4 hours earlier would look. Seems they look pretty darn dead even at first glance.

Kind of like how someone would scream over the body of a child when police walk in?

justbetweenus
09-20-2011, 11:16 PM
And we are still left with the question-is there any physical evidence that JS did call RN at 12:30 am? There is no record of the message on RN's cell phone. Is there anything on his? If he used his cell phone it should have registered an outgoing call.

I do recall a reporter asking an officer during the conference if they were able to retrieve that call from the phone it came from and he said they were able to do that.

CalElliot
09-20-2011, 11:25 PM
The call pattern echoes the theory of DS threatening to out JS in some way that was sealed in their divorce or post their divorce that could cause desperate measures orchestrated by three or more particpants.

SmoothOperator
09-20-2011, 11:25 PM
You know what that is an excellent point defense101!!! Rebecca died July 13th and the large PC to announce the suicide theory was Sept 2.. They literally a week before the press conference made the decision that they guess they better go ahead and check this avenue with JS and DS phones just so they could say they did so if it happened to come up at their big ol Suicide Presser, complete with the video of a female doing the handy dandy intricate lacing and knots that were used on Rebecca's hands(notice it went no further.. Not completing the task of then binding the feet and noosing herself as well, nor the knotting used around the leg and thru the bed frame.. They thought that little rope demo of the hands would be enough to pacify us.. Huh! Dream on) Dr. Drew last night showed that unless she'd had thorough training in these particular methods and knots it's just not possible she would have done so.. A woman distraught as she was.. All in all it definitely seems that the LE agency in this case way underestimated the publics naivety and intellect.. Way.. Waaaay.. Underestimated!!!

But to know that these phone records were not even subpoenaed til Aug 24, a week before there big show is just sickening!!

For starters I'd like to have confirmation on the exact time of the 10:41pm text from NR.. I believe it to be a bold faced lie that it was sent earlier.. As I said there's no AT&T glitch going on here as is purposed!! And when it's confirmed to have been 10:41pm that the text was made then one questioned needs to be looked at.. Why would this woman lie and feel the need to make it believed that the text was earlier?? If it's proven to be a lie.. Then we have barely scratched the surface of what's taken place at the Shacknai mansion the night of July 12- inti the morning of July 13!!!

IMO that detail and IMO mistake that NR has made about attempting to "correct" the time of the text is a very important key to an entire treasure trove of what's lurking beneath the surface in this case!!!!

Jmo, tho!!

defense101
09-20-2011, 11:40 PM
You know what that is an excellent point defense101!!! Rebecca died July 13th and the large PC to announce the suicide theory was Sept 2.. They literally a week before the press conference made the decision that they guess they better go ahead and check this avenue with JS and DS phones just so they could say they did so if it happened to come up at their big ol Suicide Presser, complete with the video of a female doing the handy dandy intricate lacing and knots that were used on Rebecca's hands(notice it went no further.. Not completing the task of then binding the feet and noosing herself as well, nor the knotting used around the leg and thru the bed frame.. They thought that little rope demo of the hands would be enough to pacify us.. Huh! Dream on) Dr. Drew last night showed that unless she'd had thorough training in these particular methods and knots it's just not possible she would have done so.. A woman distraught as she was.. All in all it definitely seems that the LE agency in this case way underestimated the publics naivety and intellect.. Way.. Waaaay.. Underestimated!!!

But to know that these phone records were not even subpoenaed til Aug 24, a week before there big show is just sickening!!

For starters I'd like to have confirmation on the exact time of the 10:41pm text from NR.. I believe it to be a bold faced lie that it was sent earlier.. As I said there's no AT&T glitch going on here as is purposed!! And when it's confirmed to have been 10:41pm that the text was made then one questioned needs to be looked at.. Why would this woman lie and feel the need to make it believed that the text was earlier?? If it's proven to be a lie.. Then we have barely scratched the surface of what's taken place at the Shacknai mansion the night of July 12- inti the morning of July 13!!!

IMO that detail and IMO mistake that NR has made about attempting to "correct" the time of the text is a very important key to an entire treasure trove of what's lurking beneath the surface in this case!!!!

Jmo, tho!! Thanks smooth, and I agree about the NR text, why would you even bring up that fact other than to take yourself out of the suspicion picture, what would the time sent really matter? I wonder if LE traced her whereabouts that night.

sdcali
09-21-2011, 12:01 AM
Is there more on the black gloves and paper towels with red stains? Please tell me LE thought to test every single thing.

black gloves, black paint...coincidence?

tvscum
09-21-2011, 12:02 AM
I'm curious why the rug they removed from the house isn't on the list?

I wasn't a rug, it was a roll of plastic. And I think the cops brought it inside the house to wrap up/cover the door with the message.

tvscum
09-21-2011, 12:13 AM
There are three more search warrants that have yet to be released from SD court, or has someone seen them?

41290, 41373, 41432


These three are the Coronado search warrants. They deal with Max. They remain sealed for now. The judge is reviewing them and he is waiting for a response from the City of Coronado on whether it wants to voluntarily follow the law and agree to unsealing, or be ordered to follow the law in open court with cameras rolling. Thursday is the hearing date. Chances are Coronado will release them Wednesday.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15505829/some-shacknai-search-warrants-to-be-unsealed

CalElliot
09-21-2011, 12:39 AM
http://www.10news.com/pdf/29245478/detail.html
--S/W #2--items removed from the mansion--

1.knife
2.pair of black gloves
3.paper towel w/ red stains
4.box w/ paint supplies
5.dr. pepper bottle
6.clothing
7.flip camera
8.basket w/ cameras
9.stain kit
10.clump of hair
11.document addressed to jonah
12.tissue w/ red stain
13.clothing
14.hair
15.receipt for paint supplies
16.candle
17.water bottle
18.bedding
19.2 plastic cups
20.underwear
21.black latex glove
22.table
23.greeting card
24.paper w/ writing
25.bedding
26.butcher knife
27.steak knife
28.white plastic bag
29.rope
30.samsung cell phone
31.paint brush
32.stain kit
33.small paint brush
34.green and white striped towel
35.bedroom door
36.tube of black paint
37.laptop computer
38.mac computer
39.olympus camera
40.lumix camera
41.swab kit
42.swab kit
43.swab kit
44.dna swab
45.print cards

Were these items all in the one room? What are "swab kits" and "DNA swab"? The latter were seized from the premises or brought to the premises? Interesting that they distinguish a "mac computer" as different than a "laptop computer." Why indeed not take the fabric softener sheet, the dog bone, the overturned chair?

SmoothOperator
09-21-2011, 12:54 AM
Were these items all in the one room? What are "swab kits" and "DNA swab"? The latter were seized from the premises or brought to the premises? Interesting that they distinguish a "mac computer" as different than a "laptop computer." Why indeed not take the fabric softener sheet, the dog bone, the overturned chair?

I think the swab kits are likely where they have taken sterile swab and swabbed particular areas, such as the paint that was found on different areas like the rope.. They'd swab that area to get enough of whatever the material is onto the swab to then take in for it to be tested at the lab to see whether it is indeed the black paint and is it the same black paint that is in the tube as well as what is used on the door for the message.. The DNA swab would be the same but just that the area that is being swabbed or more specifically the material they are taking a swabbed sample of is believed to be human saliva, blood, etc.. The print cards would be the long strips used to derive latent fingerprints from the many different areas of a crime scene..

As far as them differentiating between a laptop and a Mac IMO that's likely because one was a laptop and the Mac was likely a regular full computer, with monitor, tower, etc..

HTH :)

Rhyme & Reason
09-21-2011, 01:00 AM
This is more than murder, this is a revenge killing. jmo

I totally agree.

IMO

StJohn
09-21-2011, 01:11 AM
The two biggest red flags to me are AS appearing to want to convey the conclusion that RN had killed herself & AS's less than stellar polygraph results. Why didn't LE ask him to take another polygraph?

As for AS texting JS, AS is well aware of being the brother of the CEO of a large corporation, he may have been thinking that the news of this incident would travel quickly & that JS needed to know ASAP, before it became a media event. Isn't it possible that AS attempted to reach JS & JS was in the shower & didn't answer? AS would then feel he had no choice but to send the info via text to make sure that JS was informed before the media started asking questions. The same would be true of JS calling DS, even though he would see her in a matter of minutes. News like this spreads like wildfire when it involves a prominent person such as JS.

On Sunday's radio show, Dr Cyril Wecht emphasized how odd it seemed that RN could tie such intricate knots & bindings even though there seemed to be no evidence that she had ever done so previously. Now we hear that AS's polygraph was inconclusive. Also, does anyone remember if there is a record of AS being informed or receiving a message of MS's prognosis that same night when RN got the cell phone msg? If AS didn't know the grim prognosis there wouldn't be much reason to suspect he would do anything to RN. IMO.

jjenny
09-21-2011, 01:13 AM
I do recall a reporter asking an officer during the conference if they were able to retrieve that call from the phone it came from and he said they were able to do that.

This is a video of the press-conference. I have just listened to the whole thing. I have heard nothing of the sort. In fact it was said because her phone was new and software was not available, they could not extract the message from her voicemail. I have not heard anything about them being able to extract that message from the phone it came from.
http://www.10news.com/video/29065367/index.html

Pach
09-21-2011, 01:26 AM
I agree totally !!!

And why wouldn't Jonah rush back home or at least immediately give AS a call to learn the details? Instead, he called DS to tell her the "news".

Pach
09-21-2011, 01:31 AM
time to revisit the news from the home state of AS that he reportedly told his neighbor he was going back to work(on the tugboat), when in actuality he flew to coronado. why the need to lie or why the inconsistency ? see here:
http://www.wmctv.com/story/15091608/memphian-discovers-body-in-brothers-san-diego-mansion

The two biggest red flags to me are AS appearing to want to convey the conclusion that RN had killed herself & AS's less than stellar polygraph results. Why didn't LE ask him to take another polygraph?

As for AS texting JS, AS is well aware of being the brother of the CEO of a large corporation, he may have been thinking that the news of this incident would travel quickly & that JS needed to know ASAP, before it became a media event. Isn't it possible that AS attempted to reach JS & JS was in the shower & didn't answer? AS would then feel he had no choice but to send the info via text to make sure that JS was informed before the media started asking questions. The same would be true of JS calling DS, even though he would see her in a matter of minutes. News like this spreads like wildfire when it involves a prominent person such as JS.

On Sunday's radio show, Dr Cyril Wecht emphasized how odd it seemed that RN could tie such intricate knots & bindings even though there seemed to be no evidence that she had ever done so previously. Now we hear that AS's polygraph was inconclusive. Also, does anyone remember if there is a record of AS being informed or receiving a message of MS's prognosis that same night when RN got the cell phone msg? If AS didn't know the grim prognosis there wouldn't be much reason to suspect he would do anything to RN. IMO.

jjenny
09-21-2011, 01:42 AM
After listening to the whole press-conference, I have noticed the following:
On JULY 14 investigators received information from the hospital that Max's condition was worsening. Up until that time the information investigators had is that his condition was stable.
Well, July 14 is a whole day after RN reportedly received the message that Max's condition was worsening. Police sure did put a lot of emphasis on that message during the press-conference. But yet they were not able to extract it from her phone, they received the information about worsening condition a whole day later, and her phone did not register such message as missed. Presumably that message led RN to commit suicide (and it was implied as much during the press-conference). But so far we have not been presented with physical evidence that it actually existed, let alone what was in it.

SmoothOperator
09-21-2011, 01:53 AM
After listening to the whole press-conference, I have noticed the following:
On JULY 14 investigators received information from the hospital that Max's condition was worsening. Up until that time the information investigators had is that his condition was stable.
Well, July 14 is a whole day after RN reportedly received the message that Max's condition was worsening. Police sure did put a lot of emphasis on that message during the press-conference. But yet they were not able to extract it from her phone, they received the information about worsening condition a whole day later, and her phone did not register such message as missed. Presumably that message led RN to commit suicide (and it was implied as much during the press-conference). But so far we have not been presented with physical evidence that it actually existed, let alone what was in it.

Thank you!!!!! And well Said!!

jjenny
09-21-2011, 01:54 AM
Thank you!!!!! And well Said!!

I provided a link to the conference in case anyone wants to revisit it again.

http://www.10news.com/video/29065367/index.html

revampz
09-21-2011, 02:14 AM
anyone know anybody who hanged out at ronald mcdonald house for 6 hours ?

I have only read the first page of this thread but have read the search warrants and yes above says it perfectly to me.

I know the phone ping of the text he sent to rebecca can prove the location he was at, but can someone tell me how far the hospital is to the house. I dont know about over there, but here a mobile tower can cover quite a large location. I worked for telstra here and if the locations are close they can be under the same tower on a bill (you call them pings).

SmoothOperator
09-21-2011, 02:15 AM
Well.. Well.. Well.. I'll be damned I certainly was not aware that Mr. Adam Shacknai was actually a neighbor of mine residing here in Memphis.. Ain't that something?

revampz
09-21-2011, 02:17 AM
sorry just read post from jjenny. So they dont have a record of the supposed message that led her to commit suicide????? very very suss

SmoothOperator
09-21-2011, 02:18 AM
I have only read the first page of this thread but have read the search warrants and yes above says it perfectly to me.

I know the phone ping of the text he sent to rebecca can prove the location he was at, but can someone tell me how far the hospital is to the house. I dont know about over there, but here a mobile tower can cover quite a large location. I worked for telstra here and if the locations are close they can be under the same tower on a bill (you call them pings).


Its a little over 11 miles listed as 24 minute travel time from the hospital to the Shacknai mansion..

revampz
09-21-2011, 02:21 AM
My thought exactly, arielilane. The deed was done and 911 had been called.............................:twocents:

oh yes! this is exactly what I have been thinking from the beginning...AS did the 'job" and I agree with what you have put above.....it was a code as well as some form of an alibi ......I think the call/text to Dina was also telling her the job was done as well, as I bet this mob had a little conference and decided to 'get" rebecca for what she did to their Max.

jjenny
09-21-2011, 02:21 AM
sorry just read post from jjenny. So they dont have a record of the supposed message that led her to commit suicide????? ...

There is no missed message on her cell phone log. Supposedly the message went into her voicemail but they said they couldn't recover it because it's a new phone and software to recover it is not available. But it certainly appears to me they implied during the press-conference that this message led her to commit suicide because it informed her about Max's worsening condition and that he was not going to recover. Since this message is so important to proving the suicide, I don't understand the software business. Is there no phone expert that could recover this message?

Melanie
09-21-2011, 02:28 AM
IMO

AS texting the news of Rebecca's death to JS is more than a red flag--it's blantantly impersonal.

As someone else posted, there were other ways to get that message to JS...none as cold as the one AS chose.

BBM.

That really bothers me. Here JS is dealing with the grave injuries to his almost deceased son and receives a text (a text for goodness sake) that RZ killed herself?

WHA??? Who does that?

When my mom was ill and dying in the hospital the family would never think about texting one another. We called the nurses desk and they would get the person in the room. Trust me, we didn't wander far either. I don't understand all this "need to sleep" info either. Been there, done that, read the book - even bought a t-shirt. I didn't sleep for a week, and when I did it was in the chair next to my mom. Yes, I did go back to the hotel for a shower, but I certainly couldn't sleep. I couldn't shut my eyes!!

If the doctors told JS that Maxie was going off life support why would he leave the hospital for so many hours? Makes no sense to me. Even if the docs didn't tell him at that point, how could he walk away for such a long time?

I don't know what's going on in this case, but I don't like it - not one bit.

MOO

Mel

revampz
09-21-2011, 02:28 AM
so that means all they have is JS's word that he sent said message at 12.50 to tell her Maxs condition. OK...yep...aha wow

Melanie
09-21-2011, 02:38 AM
I have only read the first page of this thread but have read the search warrants and yes above says it perfectly to me.

I know the phone ping of the text he sent to rebecca can prove the location he was at, but can someone tell me how far the hospital is to the house. I dont know about over there, but here a mobile tower can cover quite a large location. I worked for telstra here and if the locations are close they can be under the same tower on a bill (you call them pings).

It's not that far (20 some odd miles), however you have to cross a large bridge/body of water to get back to Coronado. If JS went home (assuming with his cell phone), he would have to pick up a tower in Coronado and drop one as he left San Diego.

MOO

Mel

tiredblondy
09-21-2011, 02:44 AM
This family was convinced that Rebecca was responsible for the child's death. If there was any doubt in their minds it didn't matter. They blamed her and continue to blame her. I suspect they feel perfectly justified because of their loss.
Yes I think this was a revenge killing! I still think there may be more than one involved but I can assure them that this is not going away and I hope to goodness that enough evidence has not been lost or "disappeared" so that nothing can be done.

Only the Lord knows what Rebecca went through that night but I suspect it started after the text requesting a meeting to talk about the childs accident. The checking the messages was part of the plot.

How in the world the LE can say this is suicide is beyond me!

tiredblondy
09-21-2011, 02:48 AM
On a more positive note-This is exactly what Websleuths is all about.

lauriej
09-21-2011, 03:57 AM
There is no missed message on her cell phone log. Supposedly the message went into her voicemail but they said they couldn't recover it because it's a new phone and software to recover it is not available.

But it certainly appears to me they implied during the press-conference that this message led her to commit suicide because it informed her about Max's worsening condition and that he was not going to recover. Since this message is so important to proving the suicide, I don't understand the software business. Is there no phone expert that could recover this message?

..exactly....the all important message.

..this message---that LE says jonah conveyed to rebecca in a voice mail at 12:30 on july 13th----that maxie's condition was "grave and death was imminent".

..at 12:50, rebecca allegedly listens to this tragic message----and decides to kill herself.

..at 1:00 , jonah---sender of the tragic message--leaves the hospital, and the bedside of his son (?!?!) whose "death is imminent"----and goes to the ronald mcdonald house for 6 hours-- until 7 a.m. ...until approximately the time adam TEXTS him with the news that "rebecca has hung herself".

Pegatha
09-21-2011, 07:36 AM
The phone call not being on the records or not showing the correct time, is the only thing that does not bother me about this case. I have AT&T and I have had more than one incident of a text message not reaching me. Or not having a missed call show up on my missed call list. I can see even see the text message on the phone of the person who sent it to me surrounded by the other messages that I did receive and that one message is completely missing from my phone. I've also gotten text messages as my husband was pulling in the driveway, that he sent when he left work. I'm not sure how those would show up on records with the phone company, but certainly technology is not flawless. Do I think the one phone call they are saying was instrumental in the subsequent events being the one that doesn't show up is hinky. Absolutely! But is it possible? I think so.

However, the text from Adam saying Rebecca killed herself, and then the phone call to Dina, not Adam is beyond bizarre. Was he expecting her to kill herself? Did they discuss it at dinner? Otherwise, why not an immediate phone call back asking for details, explanation, etc. And of course I can't believe he didn't run home to be with her, find out what happened. He was able to take time away from Max to go the the RMH and sleep, surely he could find the time to go to his own house and see his fiance who supposedly just killed herself.

Zephyr
09-21-2011, 08:27 AM
"The deed is done" theory of the rapid secession of texts from A to J to D - great thinking, SmoothOperator!

But we might also consider that IF RZ was murdered, say by a professional, it might not be extremely important to notify all the interested parties as soon as possible.

What I think would be a good reason for notifying everyone ASAP - just so that no one needs to fake a feeling of surprise. The way it went down, J hears the news from A, D hears the news from J - no outsiders to say "Hmm... this person didn't seem particularly surprised when I informed him/her." Just in case anyone thought their acting skills might not be up to snuff.

This is just my opinion.

sdcali
09-21-2011, 11:20 AM
This is a video of the press-conference. I have just listened to the whole thing. I have heard nothing of the sort. In fact it was said because her phone was new and software was not available, they could not extract the message from her voicemail. I have not heard anything about them being able to extract that message from the phone it came from.
http://www.10news.com/video/29065367/index.html

I don't think the PC video contained the Q&A afterwards...at least not the video on the Sheriff's webpage.

tvscum
09-21-2011, 11:34 AM
There is no missed message on her cell phone log. Supposedly the message went into her voicemail but they said they couldn't recover it because it's a new phone and software to recover it is not available. But it certainly appears to me they implied during the press-conference that this message led her to commit suicide because it informed her about Max's worsening condition and that he was not going to recover. Since this message is so important to proving the suicide, I don't understand the software business. Is there no phone expert that could recover this message?

The search warrant said RZ's cell phone was a Samsung. Sister MZ said the phone was AT&T and a newer-model Windows Phone. There is only one phone that meets those criteria on the AT&T web site: The Samsung Focus.

http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-details/?device=Samsung+Focus+(TM)+-+Black&q_sku=sku4980540#fbid=sMXpCtJi1xO

At the PC the cops said they could not retrieve RZ's three-page journal from inside the phone because there was no software to do it. That journal resides on the phone itself and is read-able on the phone itself. It apparently was never deleted.

Software had nothing to do with the voicemail audio. It was deleted from the AT&T servers after about 20 minutes by RZ or somebody using her phone, according to LE. The cops have not said whether they even tried to recover that audio from AT&T backup servers.

Also, the cops apparently did not even know about that voicemail message until they served a search warrant for phone records more than a month later, Aug. 24, and discovered the 12:50am call to voicemail on RZ's call log.

I suppose it's possible JS told LE he left a voicemail early on, but that is doubtful because they waited until Aug. 24 to look at the phone records.

tvscum
09-21-2011, 11:45 AM
The Samsung Focus apparently saves journal entries as office docs, assuming she used Word to write the journal. She also could have used OneNote, but all these formats are common Windows formats. Info from the phone's manual below.

Office
With Office, you can view, edit, and create Excel spreadsheets
and Word documents, view and edit PowerPoint presentations,
create notes, or search for and share document files with others.
To access Office, follow these steps:

1.
From the Home screen, tap ➔ Office .
The following Microsoft Office applications are available:
OneNote

: capture notes, ideas, pictures, and voice memos on the
go and share notes with others.
Excel

: view, edit, and create Microsoft Excel spreadsheets on your
phone.
Word

: view, edit, and create Microsoft Word documents on your
phone.
PowerPoint

: view and edit Microsoft PowerPoint presentations on
your phone.
SharePoint

: Access Microsoft SharePoint documents and lists from
your phone. Download documents, make updates on your phone,
and save them back to SharePoint.
2.

Sweep your screen to the left to display the different
applications.
3.

Follow the on-screen instructions to use the Microsoft
Office applications.

Pach
09-21-2011, 12:50 PM
It is nice, Yes ? :floorlaugh:
http://images.wikia.com/scratchpad/images/a/a5/Borat.jpg
Well.. Well.. Well.. I'll be damned I certainly was not aware that Mr. Adam Shacknai was actually a neighbor of mine residing here in Memphis.. Ain't that something?

4Jacy
09-21-2011, 01:10 PM
Interesting. We now know that the police do have JS's phone, which means they can verify he did contact RZ when he said he did. We also know that AS was told to remove the blue cloth from RZ.


That blue scarf, cloth, whatever, has always been a red flag for me. If it had RZ's saliva on it, and was in fact over her mouth, to me that proves murder. Everything else is suspicious, of course, but the scarf over mouth, that was a stupid move on the murder's part.

4Jacy
09-21-2011, 01:28 PM
BBM.

That really bothers me. Here JS is dealing with the grave injuries to his almost deceased son and receives a text (a text for goodness sake) that RZ killed herself?

WHA??? Who does that?

When my mom was ill and dying in the hospital the family would never think about texting one another. We called the nurses desk and they would get the person in the room. Trust me, we didn't wander far either. I don't understand all this "need to sleep" info either. Been there, done that, read the book - even bought a t-shirt. I didn't sleep for a week, and when I did it was in the chair next to my mom. Yes, I did go back to the hotel for a shower, but I certainly couldn't sleep. I couldn't shut my eyes!!

If the doctors told JS that Maxie was going off life support why would he leave the hospital for so many hours? Makes no sense to me. Even if the docs didn't tell him at that point, how could he walk away for such a long time?

I don't know what's going on in this case, but I don't like it - not one bit.

MOO

Mel

I've done the same thing with many family members. You just have to. Sometimes miracles happen, one never knows. Perhaps he could have awaken for one brief moment and mumbled something, opened his eyes. At least someone should have been there holding his hand, speaking in a soothing voice to him.

Morag
09-21-2011, 01:33 PM
What were we told about the whereabouts of JS and DS during the early morning hours of 7/13? As I recall, we were told that they were at Max's bedside during the whole week before his removal from life support. (I seem to remember that was part of the PC, but my computer is not quite up to the task of playing that).

Now we know that DS left for about 12 hours (0800 to 2000 on 7/12), and JS went home to shower, eat and change on the evening of 7/11, then checked into a hotel for the night. He also went out to dine, then checked into RMDH for the 1am-7am period of 7/13.

So he actually spent a moderate amount of time during the first days of Max's hospitalization- wonder what his schedule was for the rest of the week?

Look, I understand that the human body can only take so many hours of no sleep, food, and bathing- but we were originally given a description/alibi of two parents who never budged from their son's side. Why should we believe anything else we were told?

CDS22
09-21-2011, 01:35 PM
That blue scarf, cloth, whatever, has always been a red flag for me. If it had RZ's saliva on it, and was in fact over her mouth, to me that proves murder. Everything else is suspicious, of course, but the scarf over mouth, that was a stupid move on the murder's part.

I wonder if RZ placed the blue T-shirt in her mouth because she didn't want to be found with her tongue hanging out when she died. I think she wanted to have an open casket at her funeral. I know this might sound far fetched, but suicide victims often plan the last detail of their deaths, right down to how they want to be buried.

I also think she didn't plan the suicide in only two hours. I think she planned to kill herself from the moment MS was injured. In fact, I believe she knew he was fatally injured from the start.

lauriej
09-21-2011, 01:47 PM
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/renowned-polygrapher-jonah-shacknais-brother-needs-take-another-lie-detector-test

Adam Shacknai needs to be given another lie detector test in connection with the death case involving Rebecca Zahau, according to famed polygraph expert Jack Tramarco.

On July 15, 2011, Adam Shacknai was given a lie detector test. Search warrants that were unsealed by a San Diego judge reveal, that "Detective Lebitski and Detective Hillen facilitated a polygraph examination of Adam Shacknai with Polygrapher Paul Redden. Redden said based on the analysis of the polygraph charts he couldn't draw a conclusion, but felt Adam was being truthful during the examination."

Trimarco routinely works with law enforcement to conduct lie detector tests. Trimarco said he would be willing to conduct another polygraph test of Adam Shacknai, and any other witnesses in the investigation.

"If the test is inconclusive, as it was in this case, you state that you have no opinion, period, end of discussion. This means you run another test, with new questions. Polygraphers aren't trained to judge people's feelings, it's just not something we do, or have the capability of doing. Adam Shacknai needs to be given another polygraph test," Trimarco says.

Pach
09-21-2011, 01:49 PM
well, so she was shy about her tongue sticking out , but alright with dying butt-naked ? if she was full-clothed, I can buy the bashfulness about the tongue

I wonder if RZ placed the blue T-shirt in her mouth because she didn't want to be found with her tongue hanging out when she died. I think she wanted to have an open casket at her funeral. I know this might sound far fetched, but suicide victims often plan the last detail of their deaths, right down to how they want to be buried.

.

steff13
09-21-2011, 01:51 PM
Does an average person know that your tongue protrudes when you die by hanging? If I were considering suicide and I was concerned about how my body would look afterward, I would OD on some pills or something like that.

Even if her tongue protruded, it would easily be corrected at the funeral home. They generally sew your mouth shut for an open casket anyway, according to a close friend who is a mortician.

Brit
09-21-2011, 01:56 PM
If something like this had happened in my home, even if victim was a complete stranger, I would be racing home. This happened on his property, why wouldn't he be going straight home? Calls to ds instead of calling as back or the house or the cops?

I never really believed there was a cover up by le.....but after these warrants it really makes me question things. They say he was at his sons bedside the entire time, it turns out that was completely untrue. It sounds like they were putting their own twist on the "facts" they presented. I feel very uneasy about so many aspects of this case.

Morag
09-21-2011, 01:59 PM
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/dana_polygraph.pdf

Here's a poly report by Paul Redden on another case. Would love to see a similar report on this one. FOI? He was also David Westerfield's polygrapher.

CDS22
09-21-2011, 02:02 PM
well, so she was shy about her tongue sticking out , but alright with dying butt-naked ? if she was full-clothed, I can buy the bashfulness about the tongue

I didn't say she was shy. In fact, I think she was quite vain. (Breast surgery, nose job, eyelid surgery, tattooed eyeliner and eyebrows). I think it's partly why she chose to die in the nude.

IMO

CDS22
09-21-2011, 02:03 PM
If something like this had happened in my home, even if victim was a complete stranger, I would be racing home. This happened on his property, why wouldn't he be going straight home? Calls to ds instead of calling as back or the house or the cops?

I never really believed there was a cover up by le.....but after these warrants it really makes me question things. They say he was at his sons bedside the entire time, it turns out that was completely untrue. It sounds like they were putting their own twist on the "facts" they presented. I feel very uneasy about so many aspects of this case.

Really? You'd leave your dying 6 year old to check out a suicide scene?

Cortne
09-21-2011, 02:06 PM
Really? You'd leave your dying 6 year old to check out a suicide scene? Not me no way in hell.

time
09-21-2011, 02:09 PM
Really? You'd leave your dying 6 year old to check out a suicide scene?

He was away for hours anyway. I know it was to sleep supposedly, but given the situation would it really have been so unthinkable to take two more hours and go to your house. This wasn't just some 'suicide scene', it was supposedly his partner who was participating fully in his life and their life together. But, you're right, he seems to be acting like she was nothing basically.

Brit
09-21-2011, 02:11 PM
Really? You'd leave your dying 6 year old to check out a suicide scene?

If somebody was hung on my property, heck yeah. You can leave and be gone for six hours but when you find out your girlfriend was hung you don't go and see things for yourself? You don't want to check and make sure that things are taken care of properly? His first call is to Dina and not her parents or her sister?

Brit
09-21-2011, 02:12 PM
And also, it is not like the hospital was hours away. We are talking about a 20 minute drive.

Brit
09-21-2011, 02:13 PM
I didn't say she was shy. In fact, I think she was quite vain. (Breast surgery, nose job, eyelid surgery, tattooed eyeliner and eyebrows). I think it's partly why she chose to die in the nude.

IMO

Nose job? Haven't read anything about that. Link would be appreciated. Tia

Pacific2011
09-21-2011, 02:16 PM
If somebody was hung on my property, heck yeah. You can leave and be gone for six hours but when you find out your girlfriend was hung you don't go and see things for yourself? You don't want to check and make sure that things are taken care of properly? His first call is to Dina and not her parents or her sister?

BBM

Did Jonah not call Adam S. to get the details of the hanging??? Unbelievable!

Pach
09-21-2011, 02:20 PM
how did you know she had Breast surgery, nose job, and eyelid surgery ?
I think women in general would like to look the best they can because, you know, guys are guys.....ok ok , there are guys who don't care about looks =) .. As for augmentation surgeries, well, each to his own..




I didn't say she was shy. In fact, I think she was quite vain. (Breast surgery, nose job, eyelid surgery, tattooed eyeliner and eyebrows). I think it's partly why she chose to die in the nude.

IMO

Pach
09-21-2011, 02:23 PM
I agree, if he did not want to make the 20 minute drive to check out the suicide scene, did he even at least call his brother to get the details of the scene ?

BBM

Did Jonah not call Adam S. to get the details of the hanging??? Unbelievable!

steff13
09-21-2011, 02:26 PM
He was away for hours anyway. I know it was to sleep supposedly, but given the situation would it really have been so unthinkable to take two more hours and go to your house. This wasn't just some 'suicide scene', it was supposedly his partner who was participating fully in his life and their life together. But, you're right, he seems to be acting like she was nothing basically.

This, exactly.

I don't think it's unreasonable at all for him to want to stay with his child vs. running home to his girlfriend if the child's death was "imminent." But, he wasn't with the child when he received the call, and hadn't been for a few hours, so it seems strange that he wouldn't take a few minutes to go home to see what was going on, or at least take the time to call his brother and ask about the situation.

I think if my child were dying in the hospital, I would spend every moment he had left by his side. There's plenty of time to eat/sleep/talk on the phone later.

CDS22
09-21-2011, 02:27 PM
how did you know she had Breast surgery, nose job, and eyelid surgery ?
I think women in general would like to look the best they can because, you know, guys are guys.....ok ok , there are guys who don't care about looks =) .. As for augmentation surgeries, well, each to his own..

The implants are in the AR, as are the tattoos. They eyelid surgery and nose job are very obvious. If you look at photos of her sisters, you can tell a little more of what RZ looked like prior to her enhancements.

rosemary
09-21-2011, 02:27 PM
I didn't say she was shy. In fact, I think she was quite vain. (Breast surgery, nose job, eyelid surgery, tattooed eyeliner and eyebrows). I think it's partly why she chose to die in the nude.

IMO

Was she an exhibitionist though? Just because she may have slept in the nude doesn't mean that she would have been comfortable enough to show off her body to strangers, especially since she came from a Christian background and a culture where women dressed rather conservatively.

critics state that females rarely, if ever, commit suicide by hanging and unclothed. Dr. Mark Kalish previously told news that “exhibitionism is extremely rare in women” during suicide. Kalish told news he was unable to determine what type of message Nalepa would have been sending if she did in fact tie up her arms and legs and hang herself unclothed.

http://news.lalate.com/2011/09/05/rebecca-nalepa-injustice-nalepa-suicide-disputed-by-critics-autopsy-results/#comments

Morag
09-21-2011, 02:52 PM
Really? You'd leave your dying 6 year old to check out a suicide scene?

He left to shower and to sleep and to have dinner. Apparently he didn't think the death of his live-in girlfriend was important. Max was going to keep on living- and dying- for as long as those life-support systems were attached.
JS was perhaps concerned that a lot of his time would be taken up with talking to LE.

CDS22
09-21-2011, 02:53 PM
Was she an exhibitionist though? Just because she may have slept in the nude doesn't mean that she would have been comfortable enough to show off her body to strangers, especially since she came from a Christian background and a culture where women dressed rather conservatively.



http://news.lalate.com/2011/09/05/rebecca-nalepa-injustice-nalepa-suicide-disputed-by-critics-autopsy-results/#comments


First of all, I don't buy the Christian angle the family is trying to sell, for various reasons which many of us have already stated. Also, things are not as conservative in Burma/Myamar as they would have you believe. There are all kinds of things going on there that are just like what you see in the west.

All that said, there are various reasons why someone would commit suicide in the nude, as articles that have been posted here have stated. One of the reasons was that the suicide victim considers herself to be a sacrifice of sorts, and I think that fits what might have been going on with RZ's mindset in her last moments. I also think she didn't plan on killing herself in the mere few hours between JS's phone call and when she was found dead. I think she planned it from the time MS landed on the floor. JMO.

Rhyme & Reason
09-21-2011, 02:59 PM
Nose job? Haven't read anything about that. Link would be appreciated. Tia

Nor the eyelid surgery :waitasec:

stilettos
09-21-2011, 03:06 PM
First of all, I don't buy the Christian angle the family is trying to sell, for various reasons which many of us have already stated. Also, things are not as conservative in Burma/Myamar as they would have you believe. There are all kinds of things going on there that are just like what you see in the west.

All that said, there are various reasons why someone would commit suicide in the nude, as articles that have been posted here have stated. One of the reasons was that the suicide victim considers herself to be a sacrifice of sorts, and I think that fits what might have been going on with RZ's mindset in her last moments. I also think she didn't plan on killing herself in the mere few hours between JS's phone call and when she was found dead. I think she planned it from the time MS landed on the floor. JMO.

Do you have personal knowledge of the families faith and Rebecca's? Are you a verified expert on the cultural conservatism is Burma/Myamar.

Rhyme & Reason
09-21-2011, 03:11 PM
The implants are in the AR, as are the tattoos. They eyelid surgery and nose job are very obvious. If you look at photos of her sisters, you can tell a little more of what RZ looked like prior to her enhancements.

Link please

Rhyme & Reason
09-21-2011, 03:14 PM
I didn't say she was shy. In fact, I think she was quite vain. (Breast surgery, nose job, eyelid surgery, tattooed eyeliner and eyebrows). I think it's partly why she chose to die in the nude.

IMO

You pretty much stated here the nose job & eyelid surgery as fact.

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 03:16 PM
First of all, I don't buy the Christian angle the family is trying to sell, for various reasons which many of us have already stated. Also, things are not as conservative in Burma/Myamar as they would have you believe. There are all kinds of things going on there that are just like what you see in the west.

All that said, there are various reasons why someone would commit suicide in the nude, as articles that have been posted here have stated. One of the reasons was that the suicide victim considers herself to be a sacrifice of sorts, and I think that fits what might have been going on with RZ's mindset in her last moments. I also think she didn't plan on killing herself in the mere few hours between JS's phone call and when she was found dead. I think she planned it from the time MS landed on the floor. JMO.

BBM. I also believe she had planned it for some time before carrying it out.

JMO

steff13
09-21-2011, 03:17 PM
The eyeliner and eyebrow tattoos are in the AR.

As far as eyelid or nasal surgery, I haven't read anything that indicates that she had anything like that. I suppose if you did a side-by-side comparison of photos of her before and after the supposed surgery, you might be able to tell.

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 03:24 PM
This, exactly.

I don't think it's unreasonable at all for him to want to stay with his child vs. running home to his girlfriend if the child's death was "imminent." But, he wasn't with the child when he received the call, and hadn't been for a few hours, so it seems strange that he wouldn't take a few minutes to go home to see what was going on, or at least take the time to call his brother and ask about the situation.

I think if my child were dying in the hospital, I would spend every moment he had left by his side. There's plenty of time to eat/sleep/talk on the phone later.

The man was human and required rest and food. Staff in ICU's urge breaks for health reasons. Criticizing the dad because he took a break from his child's bedside is utterly heartless.

JMO

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 03:31 PM
If something like this had happened in my home, even if victim was a complete stranger, I would be racing home. This happened on his property, why wouldn't he be going straight home? Calls to ds instead of calling as back or the house or the cops?

I never really believed there was a cover up by le.....but after these warrants it really makes me question things. They say he was at his sons bedside the entire time, it turns out that was completely untrue. It sounds like they were putting their own twist on the "facts" they presented. I feel very uneasy about so many aspects of this case.

It is more than obvious JS also feels very uneasy over the way LE have handled the situation or he would not have requested the State's lead law enforcement officer for a review of procedures.

Nobody said JS was at his son's bedside the entire time, they said they could account for his time. You are mistaken if you believe LE would have allowed him to cross the tape they had placed around a possible crime scene.

JMO

Rhyme & Reason
09-21-2011, 03:32 PM
The eyeliner and eyebrow tattoos are in the AR.

As far as eyelid or nasal surgery, I haven't read anything that indicates that she had anything like that. I suppose if you did a side-by-side comparison of photos of her before and after the supposed surgery, you might be able to tell.

Right. Eyeliner & eyebrow tattoos are fact. Nose job and eyelid surgery is not fact, it is opinion.

SmoothOperator
09-21-2011, 03:38 PM
If this woman planned this suicide, if even just in the hours prior, then I want to see the Internet records proving that she researched these extremely dramatic measures that were taken and executed in this death!!

I will not believe for a moment that she would have been able to Do the extreme tie up job that was done on her along with noosing herself, and the knotting thru the bedframe and around the leg of the bed!! I won't believe this unless I see that she researched these methods.. Because there is nothing in her past that gives her any knowledge or know how of this intricate knots!!! The placing the t shirt wrapped around the outside of the noose, tied off, and the sleeve placed in the mouth.. I want to see where she researched this as a way to keep her tongue from hanging out upon death.. Because common sense says it'd likely come out at some point going head first off a 9' balcony, not to mention what would take place after she was unconscious.. Very likely the tshirt sleeve could've fallen out.. I want to see if she researched this as a way of aesthetic value(as is purposed).. These extreme measures taken are not common knowledge and I want to see proof that she researched those methods.. That could make all the difference in the world.. They have the phone, they have laptop, they have Mac computer.. Research the Internet searches on all of these devices and let's see the proof that she researched these extremely dramatic and unique and intricate methods used tO kill herself..

And with her getting this ski rope to use to bind, noose, and hang herself is it thought that this woman measured out the distance, including the measurements needed for the intricate knots, as well as tying off to the bedframe and leg and was able to make the rope the correct length to hang herself???
I mean a few inches off and she wouldve simply just gone over head first only to land in the courtyard below.. Is it just luck that she just happened to get it exactly right and dead on with the measurements accurate enough to succeed fully her first try???? That truly is way too much to accept as luck or coincidence?? How many coincidences are we supposed to accept here in this death???

I really wanna know do pol believe it was just pure luck that the rope just happened to work out perfectly?? I find it impossible given what all was done with the rope along with a matter of inches would have failed the entire mission of hanging but rather landed her below on the courtyard?????

branwynbreeze
09-21-2011, 03:42 PM
First of all, I don't buy the Christian angle the family is trying to sell, for various reasons which many of us have already stated. Also, things are not as conservative in Burma/Myamar as they would have you believe. There are all kinds of things going on there that are just like what you see in the west.

All that said, there are various reasons why someone would commit suicide in the nude, as articles that have been posted here have stated. One of the reasons was that the suicide victim considers herself to be a sacrifice of sorts, and I think that fits what might have been going on with RZ's mindset in her last moments. I also think she didn't plan on killing herself in the mere few hours between JS's phone call and when she was found dead. I think she planned it from the time MS landed on the floor. JMO.

I don't see why it's difficult to buy they are strong believers in their chosen faith. Most of my friends and coworkers that have come from other countries, including some from well known sex trade countries, came to better lives of themselves and children as well as freedom to practice their faith. Really no different that people anywhere else.

JMO

branwynbreeze
09-21-2011, 03:46 PM
It is more than obvious JS also feels very uneasy over the way LE have handled the situation or he would not have requested the State's lead law enforcement officer for a review of procedures.

Nobody said JS was at his son's bedside the entire time, they said they could account for his time. You are mistaken if you believe LE would have allowed him to cross the tape they had placed around a possible crime scene.

JMO

I respectfully disagree. I think it was message boards and news comment pages that where still questioning things. JS and indirectly his company had little choice if they want this to go away.

SmoothOperator
09-21-2011, 03:49 PM
All of these intricate and unique knots that are not common knowledge.. And that I'd be willing to bet the majority of us females here would not know how to go about doing what was done with the lacing, tying, binding of the rope and knots to secure all the bindings.. It is not common knowledge and would take some researching at the very least to be able to practice with and learn the know how of how to execute these bindings and knots.. No proof at this point of even any Internet searches showing she studied the" how to" to be able to execute this intricate maze of bindings and knots!!!..

Yet once again we are left to accept the coincidence that literally within a few yards of where this woman was there was one, single other human being that was even present on the entire property.. Coincidence that one other individual on the entire property was specifically trained and presently works using these intricate and unique knots in their daily work of their occupation???.. Just another coincidence?? .. Really, what are the chances of that, really???

rosemary
09-21-2011, 03:50 PM
First of all, I don't buy the Christian angle the family is trying to sell, for various reasons which many of us have already stated. Also, things are not as conservative in Burma/Myamar as they would have you believe. There are all kinds of things going on there that are just like what you see in the west.

[/B]

The Zahaus came from the Chin minority in Myanmar, which have been and continues to be, persecuted by the country's gov because of their religion. From most articles I have read about the Chin minority, their religion plays a strong part in their culture and also plays a strong part in their identity. Rebecca and her family, just like all the other Chin refugees, chose to escape rather than be forced to change their religion. It's unfair to say that just because Rebecca may not have been a perfect 'Christian', she wasn't really into her religion or beliefs that much. Also, based on what i've read, Chin women traditionally wear modest clothes, long skirts and shirts that are not revealing. The Chins live in a country whose gov. is known to torture and kill their people, and not only that, they suffer from lack of adequate food and other basic necessities as well. I don't see how they are just like what you would see in the west.

rosemary
09-21-2011, 03:59 PM
All that said, there are various reasons why someone would commit suicide in the nude, as articles that have been posted here have stated. One of the reasons was that the suicide victim considers herself to be a sacrifice of sorts, and I think that fits what might have been going on with RZ's mindset in her last moments. I also think she didn't plan on killing herself in the mere few hours between JS's phone call and when she was found dead. I think she planned it from the time MS landed on the floor. [B]JMO.

But why would she have chosen to hang herself outside though? I still don't get why she went to all that trouble to do it outside rather than inside the house. Wouldn't she have been worried that she would be spotted? And if she felt it was a sacrifice of some sort, why did she wrap the shirt around her neck three times and gag herself? If the t-shirt gag had been mere vanity on her part, I don't think she would have chosen to kill herself naked then, especially when she apparently had her period at that time.

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 04:02 PM
I respectfully disagree. I think it was message boards and news comment pages that where still questioning things. JS and indirectly his company had little choice if they want this to go away.

What exactly about JS or his company is in question? Nothing, as far as I know. The goal for RN's family was supposedly justice for RN and criticism of LE but that apparently wasn't their real agenda. Interesting how that morphed into a focus on JS and his money.

JMO

TorisMom003
09-21-2011, 04:02 PM
Stong believers in their faith don't shoplift, divorce, commit adultery, or fornication. I'm not judging them, but I am speaking the lingo of Christianity that they were spouting. Adoniram Judson was mentioned in an article about the family (the one where the mother was interviewed). I don't know if you're familiar with Adoniram Judson or the conversions of the Chins, but their lifestyles are so far removed from his teachings, I don't know why he was even mentioned in the article.

And yet we have Catholic Priests who have sex with minor boys when it is clearly against their religion. My point is that even though a person is not a "perfect Christian" it does not give any of us the right to decide that they are not a strong believer of their faith. Just because a person may do some things that "go against" their religion it does not mean that they would do all things that "go against" their religion.

MOO

CDS22
09-21-2011, 04:03 PM
The Zahaus came from the Chin minority in Myanmar, which have been and continues to be, persecuted by the country's gov because of their religion. From most articles I have read about the Chin minority, their religion plays a strong part in their culture and also plays a strong part in their identity. Rebecca and her family, just like all the other Chin refugees, chose to escape rather than be forced to change their religion. It's unfair to say that just because Rebecca may not have been a perfect 'Christian', she wasn't really into her religion or beliefs that much. Also, based on what i've read, Chin women traditionally wear modest clothes, long skirts and shirts that are not revealing. The Chins live in a country whose gov. is known to torture and kill their people, and not only that, they suffer from lack of adequate food and other basic necessities as well. I don't see how they are just like what you would see in the west.



Have you ever been to Burma/Myamar? It's not this conservative little nation with everyone in long clothing shuffling about with their heads down. It's not as different as you might imagine.

RZ didn't typically wear modest clothing so I don't think it's fair to judge her by Christian Chin standards unless that's what her family is hoping we'll do, because her lifestyle didn't pass the muster.

Now I'll tell you what was interesting (and disturbing). In the comment section of an article I read, someone who identified him or herself from Burma wrote things to the effect that Rebecca had to "pay" because she lived an immoral lifestyle. The person listed some things that were considered immoral, including the fact that she married a white man (her first husband). The person said it was a "sin" for a Chin to marry a white person and that's why RZ had to pay. So if RZ was murdered (and I don't think she was, but I very well could be wrong), I would wonder if someone from her former country did it to exact judgement for her immoral lifestyle (not my words).

IMO

SmoothOperator
09-21-2011, 04:05 PM
Really? You'd leave your dying 6 year old to check out a suicide scene?

Except The fact is Jonah Shacknai was not at his son's bedside, nor had he been for the 6 hours leading up to his being notified his live-in gf was hanging from the balcony of their home!!! Those are the facts!! Jonah was not with Max!! He'd left Max around 1am and still had yet to return to Max's bedside by 6:48am when his brother text him that "Rebecca hung herself".. Nor had he still yet to return Max's bedside at 7am when Dina states to LE that she received a call, while at the hospital with Max, from Jonah stating Rebecca had killed herself!!!

So, with those facts clearly laid out and it noted he was not, nor had he been for 6+ hrs, been at his dying son's bedside.. Why did he not go to his home when he was given this extremely disturbing news??
Again he was not, nor had he been with his son at the time he was notified!

stilettos
09-21-2011, 04:06 PM
What exactly about JS or his company is in question? Nothing, as far as I know. The goal for RN's family was supposedly justice for RN and criticism of LE but that apparently wasn't their real agenda. Interesting how that morphed into a focus on JS and his money.

JMO

In this situation, one cannot divorce Mr. Shacknai, his company and his money from the equation...they are part of the surrounding circumstances, enviornment and fair to be examined in the light of how they may relate to the suspicious deaths.

CDS22
09-21-2011, 04:06 PM
And yet we have Catholic Priests who have sex with minor boys when it is clearly against their religion. My point is that even though a person is not a "perfect Christian" it does not give any of us the right to decide that they are not a strong believer of their faith. Just because a person may do some things that "go against" their religion it does not mean that they would do all things that "go against" their religion.

MOO

I don't want to get into various denominational disputes. I just want to say that someone who sincerely follows a faith will live it. "By their fruits ye shall know them". That kind of thing.

TorisMom003
09-21-2011, 04:11 PM
I don't want to get into various denominational disputes. I just want to say that someone who sincerely follows a faith will live it. "By their fruits ye shall know them". That kind of thing.

And I am simply saying that we can not know what is in someone's heart or how their relationship is with their God. While one may not hold true to all of the religious beliefs of their chosen religion, we do not know what they do hold true to. To judge someone based on mistakes they have made in their past is not a true base of their belief in their religion and a determination as to if they would or would not commit suicide.

CDS22
09-21-2011, 04:14 PM
And I am simply saying that we can not know what is in someone's heart or how their relationship is with their God. While one may not hold true to all of the religious beliefs of their chosen religion, we do not know what they do hold true to. To judge someone based on mistakes they have made in their past is not a true base of their belief in their religion and a determination as to if they would or would not commit suicide.

Well, if you can't really know what's in someone's heart, I guess you can't say they WOULDN'T commit suicide, now can you?

I believe RZ's past actions show an unstable and unhappy person. I don't think suicide is a far stretch for her. Again, that is only my opinion and doesn't mean she did or didn't kill herself.

SunnieRN
09-21-2011, 04:19 PM
I wonder if RZ placed the blue T-shirt in her mouth because she didn't want to be found with her tongue hanging out when she died. I think she wanted to have an open casket at her funeral. I know this might sound far fetched, but suicide victims often plan the last detail of their deaths, right down to how they want to be buried.

I also think she didn't plan the suicide in only two hours. I think she planned to kill herself from the moment MS was injured. In fact, I believe she knew he was fatally injured from the start.

And murder victims are often gagged to prevent their screams or cries for help.

Even if Rebecca KNEW that Max was fatally injured 'from the start', why would that mean she was planning 'the last detail of' her death? It is awfully hard to plan something you have never done, without even researching how to do it, what the consequences you would like to avoid are, or whether or not it is a feasible plan. It has often been stated that Rebecca was an intelligent woman.

I do not see an intelligent woman taking a chance, by not going onto the balcony and measuring the rope prior to using it, not researching her method of death before attempting it, or not leaving a note for her family or Jonah, apologizing for Max's accident, if she were in some way responsible.

I see what your opinion is. My opinion is that Rebecca was brutally murdered, by someone she knew, to silence her. Pure and simple brutality. For one reason only. You did not even give a reason as to why Rebecca would feel a need to kill hersef over Max's accident. Per her sister, she didn't feel 'guilty'. She was upset, not guilty.

Really? You'd leave your dying 6 year old to check out a suicide scene?

Not I, but I also wouldn't leave to drive a friend to the airport, go to a restaurant (maybe the hospital cafeteria), or go to stay at a hotel.

First of all, I don't buy the Christian angle the family is trying to sell, for various reasons which many of us have already stated. Also, things are not as conservative in Burma/Myamar as they would have you believe. There are all kinds of things going on there that are just like what you see in the west.

All that said, there are various reasons why someone would commit suicide in the nude, as articles that have been posted here have stated. One of the reasons was that the suicide victim considers herself to be a sacrifice of sorts, and I think that fits what might have been going on with RZ's mindset in her last moments. I also think she didn't plan on killing herself in the mere few hours between JS's phone call and when she was found dead. I think she planned it from the time MS landed on the floor. JMO.

I am very happy that God sits on the throne and decides who loved him, followed him and even if not 'perfect', was deserving of everlasting life in the kingdom of God. Being a Christian, does not in any way, shape or form, mean that you are perfect. My opinion, as well as that of biblical scholars, pastors and other learned teachers of religion.

As for suicide in the nude. ALL of the articles that you listed had NOT ONE nude suicide, with the elements involved in Rebecca's death. NOT ONE. In the history of mankind, with the multitude of people that have committed suicide, I can not believe that there is not ONE other example. That makes no sense what so ever. Nude, bound hands behind her back, bound feet, noose over her hair, t-shirt wrapped around noose, (stuffed into the mouth of a person who wanted to die?), paint from a message that is a riddle, that is found on the rope, but not on the t-shirt? These are a few of the reasons this does not fit into any other case of suicide on record. Add the wounds, especially to Rebecca's top of the head, and it is a case for murder and should have been investigated as such.

Brit
09-21-2011, 04:27 PM
Have you ever been to Burma/Myamar? It's not this conservative little nation with everyone in long clothing shuffling about with their heads down. It's not as different as you might imagine.

RZ didn't typically wear modest clothing so I don't think it's fair to judge her by Christian Chin standards unless that's what her family is hoping we'll do, because her lifestyle didn't pass the muster.

Now I'll tell you what was interesting (and disturbing). In the comment section of an article I read, someone who identified him or herself from Burma wrote things to the effect that Rebecca had to "pay" because she lived an immoral lifestyle. The person listed some things that were considered immoral, including the fact that she married a white man (her first husband). The person said it was a "sin" for a Chin to marry a white person and that's why RZ had to pay. So if RZ was murdered (and I don't think she was, but I very
well could be wrong), I would wonder if someone from her former country did it to exact judgement for her immoral lifestyle (not my words).

IMO


A link to this article would be appreciated. Tia

rosemary
09-21-2011, 04:37 PM
Have you ever been to Burma/Myamar? It's not this conservative little nation with everyone in long clothing shuffling about with their heads down. It's not as different as you might imagine.

have you been there yourself? i've read stories, news reports about the human suffering that goes on there, especially with minorities like the Chins. they live a less urban more traditional lifestyle due to the lack of help, adequate services and ongoing attacks from their own gov.

RZ didn't typically wear modest clothing so I don't think it's fair to judge her by Christian Chin standards unless that's what her family is hoping we'll do, because her lifestyle didn't pass the muster.

i don't think there is any evidence that Rebecca was an exhibitionist either. she may not have worn traditional clothes but her dress sense was not too revealing or even inappropriate at all. and do you know Rebecca more than her family does that you can say that she is not at all like a typical Christian Chin?

Now I'll tell you what was interesting (and disturbing). In the comment section of an article I read, someone who identified him or herself from Burma wrote things to the effect that Rebecca had to "pay" because she lived an immoral lifestyle. The person listed some things that were considered immoral, including the fact that she married a white man (her first husband). The person said it was a "sin" for a Chin to marry a white person and that's why RZ had to pay. So if RZ was murdered (and I don't think she was, but I very well could be wrong), I would wonder if someone from her former country did it to exact judgement for her immoral lifestyle (not my words).

IMO

i have yet to find any evidence that marrying a white man was considered immoral to the chins, especially since the missionaries who converted them were white, and apparently were highly thought of by the chins.

TorisMom003
09-21-2011, 04:38 PM
Well, if you can't really know what's in someone's heart, I guess you can't say they WOULDN'T commit suicide, now can you?

I believe RZ's past actions show an unstable and unhappy person. I don't think suicide is a far stretch for her. Again, that is only my opinion and doesn't mean she did or didn't kill herself.

I have not said that Rebecca would not commit suicide. She may very well have been suicidal at some point or other. However, I do not believe that she did ultimately commit suicide based on the evidence that has been released. I firmly believe that she was killed by someone for whatever reason.

MOO

katydid23
09-21-2011, 04:39 PM
And I am simply saying that we can not know what is in someone's heart or how their relationship is with their God. While one may not hold true to all of the religious beliefs of their chosen religion, we do not know what they do hold true to. To judge someone based on mistakes they have made in their past is not a true base of their belief in their religion and a determination as to if they would or would not commit suicide.

I think the point they were trying to make is that we cannot assume she would never commit suicide because 'it was against her religion'---as her sisters are claiming. In other words, to claim she would never do that because she was so religious, makes no sense since she did other various things that were against that same religion. I am not judging her, just making the point that it seems odd to try and use that explanation when other things she did were not in line with her faith either.

SmoothOperator
09-21-2011, 04:47 PM
IMO the entire opinions about religion are irrelevant as none of us know and certainly have no right to judge this woman's past as a way of weighing or deciding just how "good" of a Christian she was..

CDS22
09-21-2011, 04:50 PM
A link to this article would be appreciated. Tia

Here you go:

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/07/morning_poll_could_rebecca_zah.php

Comments are by "pure burmese"

CDS22
09-21-2011, 04:52 PM
have you been there yourself? i've read stories, news reports about the human suffering that goes on there, especially with minorities like the Chins. they live a less urban more traditional lifestyle due to the lack of help, adequate services and ongoing attacks from their own gov.



i don't think there is any evidence that Rebecca was an exhibitionist either. she may not have worn traditional clothes but her dress sense was not too revealing or even inappropriate at all. and do you know Rebecca more than her family does that you can say that she is not at all like a typical Christian Chin?



i have yet to find any evidence that marrying a white man was considered immoral to the chins, especially since the missionaries who converted them were white, and apparently were highly thought of by the chins.


Read the comments by "pure burmese":

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/07/morning_poll_could_rebecca_zah.php

SmoothOperator
09-21-2011, 04:55 PM
Burmese, religious, zealot hitman on the loose in the upscale town of Coronado, CA.. Seeing as how we all have sin present in our lives.. All women of this descent should immediately take cover from this Burmese, religious, zealot hitman!! You've been warned!

** wonder if they'll make their way to Missouri?

rosemary
09-21-2011, 05:01 PM
I think the point they were trying to make is that we cannot assume she would never commit suicide because 'it was against her religion'---as her sisters are claiming. In other words, to claim she would never do that because she was so religious, makes no sense since she did other various things that were against that same religion. I am not judging her, just making the point that it seems odd to try and use that explanation when other things she did were not in line with her faith either.

but it's not just their religious beliefs that made the Zahaus question Rebecca's death. I can understand that sometimes people kill themselves even if it is against their religion to do so, although there have been some studies done that have shown that religion can sometimes play a protective factor in preventing suicide. muslim and even some christian countries have been shown to have statistically lower suicide rates than other countries that are more secular or have more ambiguous views on suicide like buddhism. but anyway, my point is, it is the strangeness of the death and the lack of satisfactory answers from the LE, which have made the Zahaus as well as the rest of us question this whole case.

stilettos
09-21-2011, 05:03 PM
Burmese, religious, zealot hitman on the loose in the upscale town of Coronado, CA.. Seeing as how we all have sin present in our lives.. All women of this descent should immediately take cover from this Burmese, religious, zealot hitman!! You've been warned!

** wonder if they'll make their way to Missouri?

:floorlaugh:Yep, Katie Bar the Door to the mountains too!:floorlaugh:

time
09-21-2011, 05:08 PM
I think the whole religious thing is as simple as this. A lot of people don't agree with everything their religion says - some Catholics take birth control and are pro-choice and are for the death penalty (I am not claiming to be an expert in Catholicism!). Rebecca, as with anyone, may have talked with her family about certain spiritual matters and beliefs and not others. Plus, they know her character and personality probably as well as anyone. She could definitely have said something that gave them the idea she thought suicide was wrong. Rebecca may not have thought it was a sin to live with someone outside of marriage as I did not a few decades ago (I don't now either). There is a concept of legal marriage and then there is the concept of having a committed relationship with another and a spiritual union. Perhaps she thought she had the later. Believing that, as I do, does not mean I am immodest. My religion tells me I should be very respectful of the earth, but I accept my limitations on that. My religion tells me I should always respect others - again, I fall short fairly often. So there are things you believe on your own whether or not your religion tells you it wrong and there are things you strive toward, but you never really reach the perfect goal.

chasing.halos
09-21-2011, 05:11 PM
Oh my.
I would like to offer up some delicious lemondrops to all.

http://userealbutter.com/recipe_photos/lemondrop-martini7.jpg

rosemary
09-21-2011, 05:12 PM
Read the comments by "pure burmese":

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/07/morning_poll_could_rebecca_zah.php

is he/she reflective of the whole entire chin community? and if that person claims to be pure burmese i have less reason to believe that he/she is really a chin minority. based on what i've read from various information, chins do not or prefer not to identify themselves as burmese at all. which is understandable given their situation in myanmar.

time
09-21-2011, 05:12 PM
but it's not just their religious beliefs that made the Zahaus question Rebecca's death. I can understand that sometimes people kill themselves even if it is against their religion to do so, although there have been some studies done that have shown that religion can sometimes play a protective factor in preventing suicide. muslim and even some christian countries have been shown to have statistically lower suicide rates than other countries that are more secular or have more ambiguous views on suicide like buddhism. but anyway, my point is, it is the strangeness of the death and the lack of satisfactory answers from the LE, which have made the Zahaus as well as the rest of us question this whole case.

Yes... and, many of us immediately thought this was a murder and are even more concerned it is now. I think they said that also because the people who knew Rebecca best were not even contacted much or at all. As we've talked about before one huge thing that was missing is a report by a forensic psychologist. Put that together with the statistics of this kind of suicide and all the other red flags and overlooked forensics and why wouldn't they be concerned.

time
09-21-2011, 05:34 PM
I hate to be a bummer and I know I have gone off track on these threads, but maybe this religious discussion could be moved to it's own thread?

KarenM
09-21-2011, 05:37 PM
Here you go:

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/07/morning_poll_could_rebecca_zah.php

Comments are by "pure burmese"

I read comments from "pure burmese". I cannot stop laughing. This person posted as "pure burmese" is probably an american who speaks perfect English and has essentially zero knowledge of Burma or Asian culture in general. Is there such a thing called "pure burmese"? Do we have any pure American here? The grammar errors were overly done. Obviously, this person doesn't have a clue what types of grammar errors people from another language system are prone to make.

I am not surprised if "pure burmese" and the one who answered his/her post ("Keepitrealinphoenix") turn out to be the same person.

On the other hand, I do agree that Rebecca's faith doesn't really carry much weight in her possibility of committing suicide. Many Christians commit suicide. The evidence in the case speaks louder than anything else.

Pach
09-21-2011, 05:52 PM
Just to add, how sure are we that she was really hanging when found ? does the physical evidence(marks on her neck) corroborate the "hanging" reported by AS ? ---> something like an upward "V" mark on her neck.
by the way, I've been bad, I have not even read the report.

If this woman planned this suicide, if even just in the hours prior, then I want to see the Internet records proving that she researched these extremely dramatic measures that were taken and executed in this death!!

I will not believe for a moment that she would have been able to Do the extreme tie up job that was done on her along with noosing herself, and the knotting thru the bedframe and around the leg of the bed!! I won't believe this unless I see that she researched these methods.. Because there is nothing in her past that gives her any knowledge or know how of this intricate knots!!! The placing the t shirt wrapped around the outside of the noose, tied off, and the sleeve placed in the mouth.. I want to see where she researched this as a way to keep her tongue from hanging out upon death.. Because common sense says it'd likely come out at some point going head first off a 9' balcony, not to mention what would take place after she was unconscious.. Very likely the tshirt sleeve could've fallen out.. I want to see if she researched this as a way of aesthetic value(as is purposed).. These extreme measures taken are not common knowledge and I want to see proof that she researched those methods.. That could make all the difference in the world.. They have the phone, they have laptop, they have Mac computer.. Research the Internet searches on all of these devices and let's see the proof that she researched these extremely dramatic and unique and intricate methods used tO kill herself..

And with her getting this ski rope to use to bind, noose, and hang herself is it thought that this woman measured out the distance, including the measurements needed for the intricate knots, as well as tying off to the bedframe and leg and was able to make the rope the correct length to hang herself???
I mean a few inches off and she wouldve simply just gone over head first only to land in the courtyard below.. Is it just luck that she just happened to get it exactly right and dead on with the measurements accurate enough to succeed fully her first try???? That truly is way too much to accept as luck or coincidence?? How many coincidences are we supposed to accept here in this death???

I really wanna know do pol believe it was just pure luck that the rope just happened to work out perfectly?? I find it impossible given what all was done with the rope along with a matter of inches would have failed the entire mission of hanging but rather landed her below on the courtyard?????

Melanie
09-21-2011, 06:05 PM
But why would she have chosen to hang herself outside though? I still don't get why she went to all that trouble to do it outside rather than inside the house. Wouldn't she have been worried that she would be spotted? And if she felt it was a sacrifice of some sort, why did she wrap the shirt around her neck three times and gag herself? If the t-shirt gag had been mere vanity on her part, I don't think she would have chosen to kill herself naked then, especially when she apparently had her period at that time.

When was this info released? I never heard RZ had her period at the time -- do you have a link?

tia

Mel

Cortne
09-21-2011, 06:10 PM
Lets not go down the religion road please. Id rather pull weeds. Lol.

CDS22
09-21-2011, 06:28 PM
Thanks for this, but I choose to discern the definition using consistent context from the Word of God itself, not a secular or even a 'religious' dictionary.

Language is language.

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 06:29 PM
I think the whole religious thing is as simple as this. A lot of people don't agree with everything their religion says - some Catholics take birth control and are pro-choice and are for the death penalty (I am not claiming to be an expert in Catholicism!). Rebecca, as with anyone, may have talked with her family about certain spiritual matters and beliefs and not others. Plus, they know her character and personality probably as well as anyone. She could definitely have said something that gave them the idea she thought suicide was wrong. Rebecca may not have thought it was a sin to live with someone outside of marriage as I did not a few decades ago (I don't now either). There is a concept of legal marriage and then there is the concept of having a committed relationship with another and a spiritual union. Perhaps she thought she had the later. Believing that, as I do, does not mean I am immodest. My religion tells me I should be very respectful of the earth, but I accept my limitations on that. My religion tells me I should always respect others - again, I fall short fairly often. So there are things you believe on your own whether or not your religion tells you it wrong and there are things you strive toward, but you never really reach the perfect goal.

BBM. Considering RN and JS began their relationship while married to other people, I think the suggestion that their affair had anything to do with spirituality is a tad ridiculous. These two were far from perfect and her family's insistence that suicide was an impossibility is just as deeply flawed.

JMO

Cher352
09-21-2011, 06:52 PM
I didn't see anything requesting the security videos at either the hospital or the Ronald McDonald House. I would have thought LE would have wanted to look at those too.

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 07:02 PM
I agree with you smooth - Religion in this case is about as relevant as the faith Cindy Anthony spouts about Casey. For example, Casey believed that Caylee's body was merely a shell, so she dumped her in the wood. After all, "what was she gonna do with her anyway". Cindy's words not mine.

I take as much away from RZ's supposed faith as I do with Cindy spouting the same thing about Casey's "beliefs". Makes no difference.

The more info that pops up in this case, the more I believe it's murder. I hope LE starts with giving AS another LDT -- this time with someone who doesn't take it upon himself/herself to say "I think he's being truthful".

I about fell out of my chair on that one.

MOO

Mel

LE has no reason to give AS another polygraph nor does AS have any reason to take one. RN's family has made a big deal about how they wanted another investigation yet all they've done is point fingers at LE and JS and JS' family as all being the bad guys. I'm not impressed with such tactics.

JMO

CDS22
09-21-2011, 07:04 PM
LE has no reason to give AS another polygraph nor does AS have any reason to take one. RN's family has made a big deal about how they wanted another investigation yet all they've done is point fingers at LE and JS and JS' family as all being the bad guys. I'm not impressed with such tactics.

JMO

I wonder why they didn't make RZ take a lie detector test? Would it be too late for XZ to take one?

SmoothOperator
09-21-2011, 07:06 PM
Still catching up so I'm sorry if this has already been thoroughly answered.. Please just disregard and scroll on past if so..lol

It's in the AR that there was blood found to be on her inner thighs and this was determined to be from either menses(technical word used in the AR) or her IUD.. Those two options were stated in the AR, tho, I personally believe as Rosemary that it was due to Rebecca being on her period, as bleeding from an IUD is not terribly abnormal.. However I'd find it much more likely to be as simple as her period..

This, IMO further leaning me away from suicide.. A woman would not add further humiliation of for lack of a better word.. Her bleeding down herself.. This IMO shows more toward someone wanting to cause humiliation of this woman.. I don't see her doing this.. Especially a woman so very vain as Many have claimed here for her to be.. Going as far as to plan ahead with the tshirt in the mouth so she wouldn't be hanging there with Her tongue possibly protruding.. Yet she purposefully makes it where she would have something that would be embarrassing for any female, especially such a vain one.. One does not add up and you cant have it both ways!!

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 07:08 PM
I didn't see anything requesting the security videos at either the hospital or the Ronald McDonald House. I would have thought LE would have wanted to look at those too.

LE request for "security" video is a given.

JMO

jjenny
09-21-2011, 07:20 PM
I don't think the PC video contained the Q&A afterwards...at least not the video on the Sheriff's webpage.

I provided a link to the video that contained Q&A portion. It has the whole thing from start to finish.

stilettos
09-21-2011, 07:22 PM
I wonder why they didn't make RZ take a lie detector test? Would it be too late for XZ to take one?

It would be wonderful for everyone in the home the day of MS's death (anyone in the home at all the 24 hours prior and leading up to) to take one as well as everyone in the family in town the 24 hours prior to and up to the day of RZ's death. Could answer alot of questions, for both families.

Rhyme & Reason
09-21-2011, 07:22 PM
I am really curious what is driving the attacks you are making on Rebecca. If you are a Christian, you know the biblical verse, 'judge not lest you be judged'. Also you are obviously angry. I am curious if it is with Rebecca or with your fellow websleuthers?

You came on the board talking about not knowing if this was suicide or murder, but now you attack the posters who believe it is murder. I would like to be able to understand the vehemence, as I find myself getting angry, which I don't like, which bothers me greatly.

Ditto. I also don't understand the vehemence and I find myself getting angry too.

jjenny
09-21-2011, 07:23 PM
LE has no reason to give AS another polygraph nor does AS have any reason to take one. RN's family has made a big deal about how they wanted another investigation yet all they've done is point fingers at LE and JS and JS' family as all being the bad guys. I'm not impressed with such tactics.

JMO

LE gave AS a polygraph-he didn't pass it. It was inconclusive. It's irrelevant that the examiner felt AS was "truthful." Examiner is not a human polygraph detector.

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 07:24 PM
I wonder why they didn't make RZ take a lie detector test? Would it be too late for XZ to take one?

By RZ do you mean Rebecca? iirc, the investigation into Max's death did not begin until after her death. I doubt LE would ask XZ to take a lie detector but now that JS has raised the issues of protocol, I think they will go back and re-investigate "planking" and Max's siblings being present because neither was mentioned in the ME's report.

JMO

stilettos
09-21-2011, 07:28 PM
Thanks for this, but I choose to discern the definition using consistent context from the Word of God itself, not a secular or even a 'religious' dictionary.


Qadosh literally means "to be set apart for a special purpose".

Hebrew word qodesh as well as the Greek word hagios both mean "separation "

Rhyme & Reason
09-21-2011, 07:30 PM
Here you go:

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2011/07/morning_poll_could_rebecca_zah.php

Comments are by "pure burmese"

That's scary, saying she deserved to die. What a freak.

Brit
09-21-2011, 07:30 PM
http://www.10news.com/news/29253139/detail.html

Earlier time of death

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 07:31 PM
LE gave AS a polygraph-he didn't pass it. It was inconclusive. It's irrelevant that the examiner felt AS was "truthful." Examiner is not a human polygraph detector.

AS voluntarily took the poly. He didn't fail it; the test was inconclusive. It isn't irrelevant that the examiner felt AS was truthful because a polygraph is not a purely scientific test. Results rely on interpretation by the examiner and LE is satisfied with the results.

JMO

jjenny
09-21-2011, 07:32 PM
http://www.10news.com/news/29253139/detail.html

Earlier time of death

Well that certainly would be crucial if could be proven, but nothing is said of who the witness is and how the information was obtained.

CDS22
09-21-2011, 07:32 PM
By RZ do you mean Rebecca? iirc, the investigation into Max's death did not begin until after her death. I doubt LE would ask XZ to take a lie detector but now that JS has raised the issues of protocol, I think they will go back and re-investigate "planking" and Max's siblings being present because neither was mentioned in the ME's report.

JMO

Yes, I mean Rebecca Zahau by RZ. I wonder why they didn't make her take a lie detector test from the start since MS's injuries weren't compatible with a fall. Now that she's gone, I don't know why they don't make XZ take one.

jjenny
09-21-2011, 07:33 PM
Yes, I mean Rebecca Zahau by RZ. I wonder why they didn't make her take a lie detector test from the start since MS's injuries weren't compatible with a fall. Now that she's gone, I don't know why they don't make XZ take one.

Not compatible with a fall? Please.

jjenny
09-21-2011, 07:34 PM
AS voluntarily took the poly. He didn't fail it; the test was inconclusive. It isn't irrelevant that the examiner felt AS was truthful because a polygraph is not a purely scientific test. Results rely on interpretation by the examiner and LE is satisfied with the results.

JMO

The examiner could not interpret the results from the chart. His feelings of truthfulness are completely irrelevant since the test he administered was inconclusive.

CDS22
09-21-2011, 07:36 PM
Not compatible with a fall? Please.

No, and I've posted links ad nauseum in the Max thread that prove that.

Melanie
09-21-2011, 07:39 PM
LE has no reason to give AS another polygraph nor does AS have any reason to take one. RN's family has made a big deal about how they wanted another investigation yet all they've done is point fingers at LE and JS and JS' family as all being the bad guys. I'm not impressed with such tactics.

JMO

I find it interesting that AS doesn't request another LDT.

Inconclusive doesn't mean he lied or told the truth. It's out as an unsettled LDT - IMHO.

As the only "witness" on the property, I would want LE to pursue this vs. assuming RZ killed herself -- as AS so eliquently put in his text to JS, vs. the first responder who considered it a murder scene.

My opinion only - thanks.

Mel

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 07:40 PM
Yes, I mean Rebecca Zahau by RZ. I wonder why they didn't make her take a lie detector test from the start since MS's injuries weren't compatible with a fall. Now that she's gone, I don't know why they don't make XZ take one.

LE can't force anybody to take a polygraph. It is purely voluntary but, that said, by the time of the suicide, I think there were questions being asked about Max's injuries. They were clearly more severe and didn't involve a scooter.

JMO

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 07:46 PM
I find it interesting that AS doesn't request another LDT.

Inconclusive doesn't mean he lied or told the truth. It's out as an unsettled LDT - IMHO.

As the only "witness" on the property, I would want LE to pursue this vs. assuming RZ killed herself -- as AS so eliquently put in his text to JS, vs. the first responder who considered it a murder scene.

My opinion only - thanks.

Mel

Excuse me but inconclusive doesn't mean guilty, either. AS had no control over the LE expert's opinion that he was truthful nor did he have control over the ME's ruling of suicide despite the first responder's opinion.

JMO

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 07:50 PM
The examiner could not interpret the results from the chart. His feelings of truthfulness are completely irrelevant since the test he administered was inconclusive.

Evidently the examiner and the rest of LE don't share your opinion. I have no reason to disbelieve the professional examiner.

JMO

Rhyme & Reason
09-21-2011, 07:51 PM
http://www.10news.com/news/29253139/detail.html

Earlier time of death

Wow, very interesting IF true. How could she check her voice mail at 12:50AM if she was deceased before midnight!!!

I'm not sure how this could even be confirmed unless there was an eyewitness to her death.

stilettos
09-21-2011, 07:52 PM
Excuse me but inconclusive doesn't mean guilty, either. AS had no control over the LE expert's opinion that he was truthful nor did he have control over the ME's ruling of suicide despite the first responder's opinion.

JMO

The test was inconclusive. The examiner's opinion is just that, opinion. One never knows what may, or may not influence an investigation. More information from all the parties in and around both deaths? How could that be a bad thing?

Rhyme & Reason
09-21-2011, 07:54 PM
No, and I've posted links ad nauseum in the Max thread that prove that.

Links with facts pertaining to Max, or opinion?

CDS22
09-21-2011, 07:55 PM
Links with facts pertaining to Max, or opinion?

Links with facts pertaining to children falling and death.

Rhyme & Reason
09-21-2011, 07:59 PM
Links with facts pertaining to children falling and death.

That's what I thought.

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 08:10 PM
The test was inconclusive. The examiner's opinion is just that, opinion. One never knows what may, or may not influence an investigation. More information from all the parties in and around both deaths? How could that be a bad thing?

The examiner's opinion is part of the test results. The examiner is the certified expert, you and I are not. The ME is also an expert. Evidently, the experts concluded they had enough information necessary to form the conclusion it was suicide.

JMO

jjenny
09-21-2011, 08:22 PM
The examiner's opinion is part of the test results. The examiner is the certified expert, you and I are not. The ME is also an expert. Evidently, the experts concluded they had enough information necessary to form the conclusion it was suicide.

JMO

Those same experts also concluded the child died in a tragic accident.

branwynbreeze
09-21-2011, 08:30 PM
The examiner's opinion is part of the test results. The examiner is the certified expert, you and I are not. The ME is also an expert. Evidently, the experts concluded they had enough information necessary to form the conclusion it was suicide.

JMO

If I am not mistaken, ME testimony is allowed in court, LDT results are not.

ETA, DS is not happy over MS COD, why can't some of us question RZ COD?

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 08:33 PM
If I am not mistaken, ME testimony is allowed in court, LDT results are not.

So far, no crime has been determined thus, no court.

JMO

steff13
09-21-2011, 08:34 PM
If I am not mistaken, ME testimony is allowed in court, LDT results are not.

I am always surprised when I see so much emphasis on the results of LDTs. They aren't admissible in court for a reason. They are an investigative tool, and nothing more.

branwynbreeze
09-21-2011, 08:36 PM
I am always surprised when I see so much emphasis on the results of LDTs. They aren't admissible in court for a reason. They are an investigative tool, and nothing more.

Yes, that was my point.

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 08:36 PM
Those same experts also concluded the child died in a tragic accident. But you are not happy with that, are you?


Were those experts aware of the allegations of planking at the time they formed their conclusions? I don't believe they were.

JMO

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 08:38 PM
I am always surprised when I see so much emphasis on the results of LDTs. They aren't admissible in court for a reason. They are an investigative tool, and nothing more.

Exactly. The expert does the analysis and it helps determine the investigation direction and conclusion. This one concluded suicide.

JMO

steff13
09-21-2011, 08:41 PM
Yes, that was my point.

I know, I was just agreeing with you. Sorry.

jjenny
09-21-2011, 08:44 PM
Were those experts aware of the allegations of planking at the time they formed their conclusions? I don't believe they were.

JMO

What's that has to do with a price of tea in China?

branwynbreeze
09-21-2011, 08:50 PM
I know, I was just agreeing with you. Sorry.

No need to say sorry, I understood what you posted, just wanted to re-enforce point.

steff13
09-21-2011, 08:52 PM
No need to say sorry, I understood what you posted, just wanted to re-enforce point.

Awesome! :rocker:

SmoothOperator
09-21-2011, 08:56 PM
And what if Max was "planking"? It is about as reckless as what occurred.. Either way neither points to Rebecca having done anything nefarious, nor even negligent whatsoever to cause Max's death.. The accident could happen to anyone who has a little boy full of energy, curious, and making the horrible decision to try something that looks like fun but in reality is deathwish!! No parent or guardian has there eyes on a 6 yr old 60secs of every minute of every hour!! It is not possible.. Parents do go to the bathroom and sadly all it takes is the blink of an eye and one bad decision and an accident like this happens!!! Max is not the first, sadly nor will he be the last!! Hundreds, if not more children's deaths such as this happen per year, where the parent/guardian are NOT at fault!!

Planking or any other theory thrown out there isnt going to change what happened to Max, nor will it change suddenly making Rebecca guilty of his death..

However Rebecca's death unfortunately the same cannot be said for it.. It is obvious there is a mountain of unanswered questions that leave the case no where near being a thorough case.. That's one thing both families agree on!!

SmoothOperator
09-21-2011, 09:15 PM
Yes, I mean Rebecca Zahau by RZ. I wonder why they didn't make her take a lie detector test from the start since MS's injuries weren't compatible with a fall. Now that she's gone, I don't know why they don't make XZ take one.

Are you following the same case that we are?!?! Really??!? Yea and I've seen your links <Mod Snip>..

The injuries ABSOLUTELY ARE CONSISTENT WITH A FALL and you've even got a 3D demo to show the exact reenactment of Max's "FALL"!!

In case you may not know, because I do... IMMEDIATELY UPON A CHILD ENTERING A HOSPITAL/ER ONCE THE CHILD's INJURIES ARE ASSESSED(and believe me Max's injuries had been very much assessed as well as extremely well documented!!) It is at that point that the healthcare providers MUST IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY DCS IF THEY HAVE ANY SUSPICION WHATSOEVER THAT THE INJURIES OCCURRED DIFFERENTLY FROM WHAT THE PARENT OR GUARDIAN HAS PURPOSED..

That is the law and that is how the law works.. These healthcare providers are not going to, especially in case such as this, they are nit going to hesitate one millisecond not having DCS IMMEDIATELY INVOLVED WITH A FULL AND EXTREMELY INVASIVE INTERROGATION AND LDT DONE OF THE GUARDIAN!!!

That did not happen, nor was there any discussion at a later time that there was foul play or even negligence!!

It's false to insinuate that they suddenly had come to a conclusion that Rebecca was guilty and oh! Golly darn! Too late she's already gone!! Doesn't work like that, didn't happen Like that, and that's the accurate truth of the matter!

justbetweenus
09-21-2011, 09:16 PM
This is a video of the press-conference. I have just listened to the whole thing. I have heard nothing of the sort. In fact it was said because her phone was new and software was not available, they could not extract the message from her voicemail. I have not heard anything about them being able to extract that message from the phone it came from.
http://www.10news.com/video/29065367/index.html

I will try to listen to the whole thing again, but I'm sure if you did and didn't hear it, and no one else has heard, I guess I was wrong. Thanks.

KarenM
09-21-2011, 09:26 PM
There is a petition to open an independent investigation into the death of the Rebecca Zahau on the web.

http://www.change.org/petitions/california-attorney-general-open-an-independent-investigation-into-the-death-of-the-rebecca-zahau

Invisible
09-21-2011, 09:30 PM
BBM

Did Jonah not call Adam S. to get the details of the hanging??? Unbelievable!

That is exactly what bothers me. I text someone when I don't want to talk to them. If something terrible happens to someone I know, then I need to TALK to someone and emote. I need to hear what the other person has to say if it is a surprising or shocking thing, yep, I need to know the details. Sounds fishy to me.

TGIRecovered
09-21-2011, 09:38 PM
I just want to point out that Wikilinks is not a source considered to be reliable for the purpose of proving facts. Anyone can put whatever they want on there.

CDS22
09-21-2011, 09:55 PM
I just want to point out that Wikilinks is not a source considered to be reliable for the purpose of proving facts. Anyone can put whatever they want on there.

The quote is from the book, Principles of forensic medicine By William Augustus Guy.

sdcali
09-21-2011, 10:02 PM
I provided a link to the video that contained Q&A portion. It has the whole thing from start to finish.

Thank you! :)

steff13
09-21-2011, 10:05 PM
The quote is from the book, Principles of forensic medicine By William Augustus Guy.

I think that book was written in 1875.

ETA: It might be valid, but our understanding of many medical concepts has changed drastically in the past 100+ years.

4Jacy
09-21-2011, 10:25 PM
Have you ever been to Burma/Myamar? It's not this conservative little nation with everyone in long clothing shuffling about with their heads down. It's not as different as you might imagine.

RZ didn't typically wear modest clothing so I don't think it's fair to judge her by Christian Chin standards unless that's what her family is hoping we'll do, because her lifestyle didn't pass the muster.

Now I'll tell you what was interesting (and disturbing). In the comment section of an article I read, someone who identified him or herself from Burma wrote things to the effect that Rebecca had to "pay" because she lived an immoral lifestyle. The person listed some things that were considered immoral, including the fact that she married a white man (her first husband). The person said it was a "sin" for a Chin to marry a white person and that's why RZ had to pay. So if RZ was murdered (and I don't think she was, but I very well could be wrong), I would wonder if someone from her former country did it to exact judgement for her immoral lifestyle (not my words).

IMO

Please, get real. We, are all sinners, even though we try not to be. Why is all this bad press about Rebecca? She was just trying to lead her life. I can't judge her, can you? God said, "Let them not judge, for I am the judge of all mankind." Sums is up for me!!

patsy
09-21-2011, 10:27 PM
That is exactly what bothers me. I text someone when I don't want to talk to them. If something terrible happens to someone I know, then I need to TALK to someone and emote. I need to hear what the other person has to say if it is a surprising or shocking thing, yep, I need to know the details. Sounds fishy to me.

I agree--moreover, you text someone when you want written evidence of the content of a communication, which they wouldn't have had with a phone call. The text gave them 'proof' that Jonah had to be informed of Rebecca's 'suicide.' To me, this is one of the fishiest details in the aftermath of her death. In reality, it simply makes no sense.

sdcali
09-21-2011, 10:30 PM
AS voluntarily took the poly. He didn't fail it; the test was inconclusive. It isn't irrelevant that the examiner felt AS was truthful because a polygraph is not a purely scientific test. Results rely on interpretation by the examiner and LE is satisfied with the results.

JMO

IMO

Hmmm...Here were AS' choices. Take a poly or refuse to. Which is the greater risk? He would definitely look guilty if he refused.

The results of a poly cannot be used in court against a person accused of a crime. Inconclusive is not passing a poly either.

In my life experience, I have learned that some people are really good liars.

SmoothOperator
09-21-2011, 10:37 PM
That is exactly what bothers me. I text someone when I don't want to talk to them. If something terrible happens to someone I know, then I need to TALK to someone and emote. I need to hear what the other person has to say if it is a surprising or shocking thing, yep, I need to know the details. Sounds fishy to me.

ITA!! And tho I find it shocking to send this information thru a text to begin with.. If, however Adam was under the impression that Jonah was by his son's bedside I could possibly understand a text, but I believe more appropriate wouldve been that there's been something horrible happen need to speak with you ASAP.. but no, he puts the info out there like it's relaying that your car is ready for pick up from the shop by his coldly texting "Rebecca hung herself".. Period end of text..

But what I find to be the most suspicious and who I find the most fault with in not adding up is Jonah Shacknai's reaction.. As we all know he was not at his sons bedside.. He'd not been with his son for the last 6 hrs.. So there would be nothing to prohibit him from immediately upon receiving the text calling Adam's phone in shock asking WTH happened? And what does he mean Rebecca hung herself? Hung herself on what?? What are you saying?? Are you saying that Rebecca is dead??

These are normal responses and I don't care who you are I know that when anyone receives a text out of the blue, with no prior knowledge of what was occurring, therefor no anticipation whatsoever that your significant other of 2 yrs was in any way in danger.. Upon receiving a text that stated "Rebecca hung herself" one would immediately need and have to know more for one's brain to even be able to absorb what it was that the text is saying.. Does that make sense??

It should.. Because without prior knowledge one would not know what to make of "Rebecca hung hersel".. Hung herself on what? Is she alive or dead? Because you don't know squat from a text that simply states "Rebecca hung herself".. UNLESS.. you have prior knowledge and were anticipating or expecting to hear this news..

Jonah did not so much as even send a text back to Adam asking for any explanation or clarification on WTH happened.. That is not strange to some?? How??

He doesn't ask anything but instead then makes a call to his ex wife at the hospital telling her that " Rebecca killed herself".. There is something very very wrong with this!! And a normal person would not be able to personally even absorb such a short traumatic text as meaning their significant other was dead.. But Jonah understands fully and needs no explanation nor clarification of ANYTHING!! he doesn't even just repeat what was said in the text but he takes it a step further moments later when calling his ex wife by saying " Rebecca KILLED herself".. He was certain of this and there was no question in his mind and he was passing along the news as if were as simple as a "good morning" greeting you say to a stranger in passing.. Cold and with zero feeling whatsoever!!!

I also believe that LE must have found it somewhat odd as well for them to actually not only make mention of these communications but to in detail along with the precise time of the texts and calls they even state what the exact words of the text and phone call were.. If it were meaningless why even bother to mention it much less actually write up the exact wording in a permanent court document??

There is something very wrong, as I just explained ^above^ and IMO everyone should be able to clearly see that these communications are in no way normal, nor are they the words, and reactions of an individual that has zero prior knowledge or anticipation of the death.. They are indicative of the exact opposite and it's chilling IMO.. Downright chilling!!

Rhyme & Reason
09-21-2011, 10:52 PM
ITA!! And tho I find it shocking to send this information thru a text to begin with.. If, however Adam was under the impression that Jonah was by his son's bedside I could possibly understand a text, but I believe more appropriate wouldve been that there's been something horrible happen need to speak with you ASAP.. but no, he puts the info out there like it's relaying that your car is ready for pick up from the shop by his coldly texting "Rebecca hung herself".. Period end of text..

But what I find to be the most suspicious and who I find the most fault with in not adding up is Jonah Shacknai's reaction.. As we all know he was not at his sons bedside.. He'd not been with his son for the last 6 hrs.. So there would be nothing to prohibit him from immediately upon receiving the text calling Adam's phone in shock asking WTH happened? And what does he mean Rebecca hung herself? Hung herself on what?? What are you saying?? Are you saying that Rebecca is dead??

These are normal responses and I don't care who you are I know that when anyone receives a text out of the blue, with no prior knowledge of what was occurring, therefor no anticipation whatsoever that your significant other of 2 yrs was in any way in danger.. Upon receiving a text that stated "Rebecca hung herself" one would immediately need and have to know more for one's brain to even be able to absorb what it was that the text is saying.. Does that make sense??

It should.. Because without prior knowledge one would not know what to make of "Rebecca hung hersel".. Hung herself on what? Is she alive or dead? Because you don't know squat from a text that simply states "Rebecca hung herself".. UNLESS.. you have prior knowledge and were anticipating or expecting to hear this news..

Jonah did not so much as even send a text back to Adam asking for any explanation or clarification on WTH happened.. That is not strange to some?? How??

He doesn't ask anything but instead then makes a call to his ex wife at the hospital telling her that " Rebecca killed herself".. There is something very very wrong with this!! And a normal person would not be able to personally even absorb such a short traumatic text as meaning their significant other was dead.. But Jonah understands fully and needs no explanation nor clarification of ANYTHING!! he doesn't even just repeat what was said in the text but he takes it a step further moments later when calling his ex wife by saying " Rebecca KILLED herself".. He was certain of this and there was no question in his mind and he was passing along the news as if were as simple as a "good morning" greeting you say to a stranger in passing.. Cold and with zero feeling whatsoever!!!

I also believe that LE must have found it somewhat odd as well for them to actually not only make mention of these communications but to in detail along with the precise time of the texts and calls they even state what the exact words of the text and phone call were.. If it were meaningless why even bother to mention it much less actually write up the exact wording in a permanent court document??

There is something very wrong, as I just explained ^above^ and IMO everyone should be able to clearly see that these communications are in no way normal, nor are they the words, and reactions of an individual that has zero prior knowledge or anticipation of the death.. They are indicative of the exact opposite and it's chilling IMO.. Downright chilling!!

Post of the WEEK!!! Thanks button wasn't enough!

SmoothOperator
09-21-2011, 10:54 PM
Mel,
Not to be argumentative and personally I'm done conversing over the nothing to back up theories and opinions of ridiculous possibilities.. But I must correct the statement including the menses as an unsubstantiated or nothing to back it up detail.. It is a fact and I am the o e that originally answered your post about where this info came from that you questioned in rosemary's post about menses.. It is directly stated in the autopsy results <modsnip>..

There is an AR document that states menses and it wasnt drawn out of the air.. Just wanted to make that known and not lumped in with other "theories" being thrown out there..

IWillDare
09-21-2011, 11:23 PM
Hey all, do we know whose blue t-shirt it was that was used as the gag? Was it Rebecca's? Jonah's? Unidentified? I'm not sure why this matters to me, but it might have some significance.

TIA!

SophieRose
09-21-2011, 11:25 PM
Please, get real. We, are all sinners, even though we try not to be. Why is all this bad press about Rebecca? She was just trying to lead her life. I can't judge her, can you? God said, "Let them not judge, for I am the judge of all mankind." Sums is up for me!!

But you were ok about making judgements about the S's and whether they were with MS the entire time in another thread.

Melanie
09-21-2011, 11:31 PM
Mel,
Not to be argumentative and personally I'm done conversing over the nothing to back up theories and opinions of ridiculous possibilities.. But I must correct the statement including the menses as an unsubstantiated or nothing to back it up detail.. It is a fact and I am the o e that originally answered your post about where this info came from that you questioned in rosemary's post about menses.. It is directly stated in the autopsy results unlike other theories being discussed..

There is an AR document that states menses and it wasnt drawn out of the air.. Just wanted to make that known and not lumped in with other "theories" being thrown out there..

Hi OS,

Thank you - I must be blind. I looked at the AR at:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B54MtfXlxRJbYjA3YzY2MTItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDg tMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en&pli=1

I thought the dried blood on the inner thigh was due to scratches, but, yes I can see where this conclusion is made (though I don't see it spelled out in the AR).

It just gets more and more bizzare -- here's a woman who went to great lengths in maintaining herself and then suddenly decised to kill herself in the most unattractive manner ever. I find it almost impossible to reconcile.

RZ, who went to the gym regularly, had a lightly colored tatoo on her eyebrows, and blue eyeliner tattoed on her uper eyelids - commited suicide by hanging/nudity/bondage. Nah - someone is really gonna have to convince me that this is not a homicide.

Just my opinion. I'm gonna go over to the autopsy thread to see what' going on there.

MOO

Mel

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 11:34 PM
IMO

Hmmm...Here were AS' choices. Take a poly or refuse to. Which is the greater risk? He would definitely look guilty if he refused.

The results of a poly cannot be used in court against a person accused of a crime. Inconclusive is not passing a poly either.

In my life experience, I have learned that some people are really good liars.

Hmmm...please provide a link to your claim that I have bolded. Thank you.

MyBelle
09-21-2011, 11:41 PM
Are you following the same case that we are?!?! Really??!? Yea and I've seen your links ad nauseum(<-your words spoken about your links)..

The injuries ABSOLUTELY ARE CONSISTENT WITH A FALL and you've even got a 3D demo to show the exact reenactment of Max's "FALL"!!

In case you may not know, because I do... IMMEDIATELY UPON A CHILD ENTERING A HOSPITAL/ER ONCE THE CHILD's INJURIES ARE ASSESSED(and believe me Max's injuries had been very much assessed as well as extremely well documented!!) It is at that point that the healthcare providers MUST IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY DCS IF THEY HAVE ANY SUSPICION WHATSOEVER THAT THE INJURIES OCCURRED DIFFERENTLY FROM WHAT THE PARENT OR GUARDIAN HAS PURPOSED..

That is the law and that is how the law works.. These healthcare providers are not going to, especially in case such as this, they are nit going to hesitate one millisecond not having DCS IMMEDIATELY INVOLVED WITH A FULL AND EXTREMELY INVASIVE INTERROGATION AND LDT DONE OF THE GUARDIAN!!!

That did not happen, nor was there any discussion at a later time that there was foul play or even negligence!! It's false to insinuate that they suddenly had come to a conclusion that Rebecca was guilty and oh! Golly darn! Too late she's already gone!! Doesn't work like that, didn't happen Like that, and that's the accurate truth of the matter!



BBM. Notification of DCS is not a matter of public record in any case so for you to claim it did not happen is just your speculation.