View Full Version : AS lie detector test
IWannaKnow
09-22-2011, 12:32 PM
From SW 11-164, page 6, lines 10-14:
On July 13, 2011, Detectives H. Lebitski #2079 and D. Hillen #1635 interviewed Adam Shacknai. Later that same day, Detectives Lebitski and Hillen facilitated a polygraph examination of Adam Shacknai with Polygrapher Paul Redden. Redden said based on the analysis of the polygraph charts, he couldn't draw a conclusion, but felt Adam was being truthful during the examination.
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/renowned-polygrapher-jonah-shacknais-brother-needs-take-another-lie-detector-test
Renowned Polygrapher: Jonah Shacknai's Brother Needs To Take Another Lie Detector Test
Posted on Sep 21, 2011 @ 12:45PM
By Jen Heger
Radar Legal Editor
Trimarco routinely works with law enforcement to conduct lie detector tests. Trimarco said he would be willing to conduct another polygraph test of Adam Shacknai, and any other witnesses in the investigation.
"If the test is inconclusive, as it was in this case, you state that you have no opinion, period, end of discussion. This means you run another test, with new questions. Polygraphers aren't trained to judge people's feelings, it's just not something we do, or have the capability of doing. Adam Shacknai needs to be given another polygraph test," Trimarco says.
elementry
09-22-2011, 12:46 PM
From SW 11-164, page 6, lines 10-14:
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/renowned-polygrapher-jonah-shacknais-brother-needs-take-another-lie-detector-test
Renowned Polygrapher: Jonah Shacknai's Brother Needs To Take Another Lie Detector Test
Posted on Sep 21, 2011 @ 12:45PM
By Jen Heger
Radar Legal Editor
But SD LE's polygrapher had a hunch - or a "feeling" - that AS was being truthful. I know Southern Cali has kind of a vibe-y, new age-y rep, but lord-y, I'd hope Law Enforcement is going on more than "feelings" when drawing conclusions..........
lauriej
09-22-2011, 01:17 PM
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/adam-shacknai-polygrapher-recommended-another-lie-detector-test
AdamShacknaiPolygrapherRecommendedAnotherLieDetect orTest (http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/adam-shacknai-polygrapher-recommended-another-lie-detector-test)
The polygrapher that gave Adam Shacknai his lie detector test, tells RadarOnline.com (http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/adam-shacknai-polygrapher-recommended-another-lie-detector-test) exclusively, that the results of the test were inconclusive, and that he recommended to the San Diego Sheriff's Department that another test be given.
However, Paul Redden tells RadarOnline.com exclusively: "The test results from the polygraph that I gave Adam Shacknai were inconclusive, therefore, I wasn't able to form an analysis from the results of the polygraph test. Adam did not necessarily pass or fail the test. Whenever I deal with an inconclusive result, I always recommend a follow-up test. I have never been asked to do a follow-up test for Adam Shacknai.
Law enforcement officials stated at the press conference that Adam Shacknai had passed the polygraph test.
When contacted for comment, Jan Caldwell, Public Affairs Director for the San Diego Sheriff's Department said: "We put our evidence out there already, and we have no further comment. We won't be talking to RadarOnline, so don't waste your time calling us anymore," and then promptly hung up the phone.
Betty P
09-22-2011, 01:23 PM
So someone in the Sheriff's Dept. made the decision to 1) not request another polygraph test and 2) tell the public at the press conference that Adam had passed the test.
If they felt it was a suicide, why didn't they follow up?
your gonna hurt their feelings...:floorlaugh:
But SD LE's polygrapher had a hunch - or a "feeling" - that AS was being truthful. I know Southern Cali has kind of a vibe-y, new age-y rep, but lord-y, I'd hope Law Enforcement is going on more than "feelings" when drawing conclusions..........
IWannaKnow
09-22-2011, 01:29 PM
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/adam-shacknai-polygrapher-recommended-another-lie-detector-test
BBM
When contacted for comment, Jan Caldwell, Public Affairs Director for the San Diego Sheriff's Department said: "We put our evidence out there already, and we have no further comment. We won't be talking to RadarOnline, so don't waste your time calling us anymore," and then promptly hung up the phone.
KarenM
09-22-2011, 01:32 PM
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/adam-shacknai-polygrapher-recommended-another-lie-detector-test
AdamShacknaiPolygrapherRecommendedAnotherLieDetect orTest (http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/adam-shacknai-polygrapher-recommended-another-lie-detector-test)
SDPD's handling of the case went beyond being just incompetent. It shows they tried their best to cover something up and make the whole case go away.
Cortne
09-22-2011, 01:35 PM
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/adam-shacknai-polygrapher-recommended-another-lie-detector-test
Uh wow are you serious?
I have been around police work for years, I have always assumed the poly examiner would judge results based on the machine and his expert opinion. Def news to me that this isnt the case. I do not believe in polys so I probably never paid attention.
justbetweenus
09-22-2011, 01:42 PM
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/adam-shacknai-polygrapher-recommended-another-lie-detector-test
AdamShacknaiPolygrapherRecommendedAnotherLieDetect orTest (http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/adam-shacknai-polygrapher-recommended-another-lie-detector-test)
OMG...this is not good. Thanks for posting.
kathyn2
09-22-2011, 03:05 PM
All I will say about this is that I think it is REAL hinky that LE gave AS a pass on this inconclusive polygraph test. Especially considering he is the only one around that we know knows about mariners knots. No proof RZ did. And considering he was the only other person we knew to be around the place that night. Real hinky....
SunnieRN
09-22-2011, 03:23 PM
SDPD's handling of the case went beyond being just incompetent. It shows they tried their best to cover something up and make the whole case go away.
This begs for an answer to ONE word. WHY???
Curious Me
09-22-2011, 08:52 PM
Money and Politics
arielilane
12-14-2012, 09:20 PM
Bump for further discussion.
However, Paul Redden tells RadarOnline.com exclusively: "The test results from the polygraph that I gave Adam Shacknai were inconclusive, therefore, I wasn't able to form an analysis from the results of the polygraph test. Adam did not necessarily pass or fail the test. Whenever I deal with an inconclusive result, I always recommend a follow-up test. I have never been asked to do a follow-up test for Adam Shacknai.
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/adam-shacknai-polygrapher-recommended-another-lie-detector-test
Law enforcement officials stated at the press conference that Adam Shacknai had passed the polygraph test.
arielilane
12-14-2012, 09:28 PM
Other Rule observations:
Coronado police chief Louis Scanlon spoke to Adam Shacknai, Jonah Shacknai's brother, the only other person investigators said was on the property when Zahau died. Scanlon commiserated with him and Shacknai, who found Zahau's body, cursed, then said “I don't think my bedside manner is that bad …” Rule wrote that Scanlon found his response to be “off the wall.”
Investigators amassed mounds of evidence, from the mansion, guesthouse and courtyard – clothing and hair, fingerprints and DNA, knives and paintbrushes – but failed to test all of it or, she wrote, to thoroughly search all of the property's vast grounds.
Prominent San Diego attorney Paul Pfingst had a cozy relationship with the Sheriff's Department that could have impacted the case. The former San Diego County District Attorney was allowed behind police tape at the mansion while Zahau's body remained onsite and used an unpublished Sheriff's department phone number to reach Adam Shacknai as he was being questioned. “In 35 or more years of writing about crime scenes, I've never seen a case where a potential defense attorney or someone not actually the current prosecutor would be behind the police ribbons that early in the case,” she said.
http://coronado.patch.com/articles/author-ann-rule-someone-killed-rebecca-zahau-coronado-spreckels-fatal-friends
inthedark14
12-14-2012, 10:09 PM
Bump for further discussion.
However, Paul Redden tells RadarOnline.com exclusively: "The test results from the polygraph that I gave Adam Shacknai were inconclusive, therefore, I wasn't able to form an analysis from the results of the polygraph test. Adam did not necessarily pass or fail the test. Whenever I deal with an inconclusive result, I always recommend a follow-up test. I have never been asked to do a follow-up test for Adam Shacknai.
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/adam-shacknai-polygrapher-recommended-another-lie-detector-test
Law enforcement officials stated at the press conference that Adam Shacknai had passed the polygraph test.
This is another huge nagging thing. Why in the world would they not have re-tested him? Why in the world was NS allowed to make excuses and not do her scheduled test? Doesn't LE have to follow a certain protocol? Follow the leads until they end? If one detective, officer, Sargent decides something must be done, isn't it done?
Worse, is that it was glossed over, lied about. AS passed the test. Not true. MSM blaring this, and SDSO has nothing to say but to tell the Z family that they should cease and desist or they'll "open the file"?
Smacks of wrongdoing....and maybe a cover up.
Always, MOO
bourne
12-15-2012, 11:50 AM
This is another huge nagging thing. Why in the world would they not have re-tested him? Why in the world was NS allowed to make excuses and not do her scheduled test? Doesn't LE have to follow a certain protocol? Follow the leads until they end? If one detective, officer, Sargent decides something must be done, isn't it done?
Worse, is that it was glossed over, lied about. AS passed the test. Not true. MSM blaring this, and SDSO has nothing to say but to tell the Z family that they should cease and desist or they'll "open the file"?
Smacks of wrongdoing....and maybe a cover up.
Always, MOO
Looks like as soon as Pfingst appeared at the Spreckels mansion and stepped over the line into the crime scene, he used his power and influence to completely alter the direction of the "possible foul play" scenario investigators were taking into Becky's death. Didn't the news first report that investigators had immediately thought Becky suffered a "violent suspicious death"? Then Pfingst shows up, and poof! The police changed tunes and decided within a matter of minutes that Becky committed suicide instead!
Then instead of pursuing a possible homicide, the police asserted fraudulently that Adam "passed the lie detector test", excused Adam from taking another polygraph even though the polygrapher said Adam's polygraph was "inconclusive", Nina was allowed to bypass taking a polygraph altogether, and neither Jonah nor Dina were printed or processed.
Only someone with a vested interest in not seeing justice done would deny that there was gross negligence and misconduct on the part of the police and Pfingst.
As a defense attorney to a POI Adam Shacknai, Pfingst knew he was overstepping his ethical boundaries when he went onto the crime scene. I am surprised he hasn't been charged with tampering with evidence and ethical and legal misconduct.
(Copying my post from the "suicide" thread, as it fits in this discussion.)
I don't think there is any way to "spin" Paul Pfingst's fairly immediate presence on the scene, as innocuous, expected, collaborative, friendly, helpful, or anything similar. And his presence can't be dismissed, either. It's highly significant.
He wasn't just "passing by" either. He was contacted rapidly, just a few hours after the body was discovered, from someone who knew exactly how to get almost immediate personal access to this former prosecutor in private practice. The person who called, IMO, was not flipping thru the yellow pages, or searching google for "find a lawyer." And the person who contacted Paul Pfingst was successful at persuading this high power attorney to literally drop what he was doing for the day, and get in the car to go to the scene. To represent "someone", who we now know was Adam. To "protect his rights", I'm sure.
Paul Pfingst's presence is a huge piece of evidence in how Rebecca's death investigation unfolded in the earliest hours-- imo, and the opinion of many others. It's not innuendo or speculation-- it is factual that he was contacted, he went there, he was photographed inside the crime tape with investigators (and in a "chummy" fashion), he was calling the police station unpublished numbers to intervene/ interfere with the questioning of AS-- who, from Ann Rule's descriptions, didn't even know he HAD an attorney, at that point. And if I'm not mistaken, AS was not even still at the mansion when PP showed up, so an excuse that he came to pick up his client can't even be used.
Attorneys who represent anyone connected with a suspicious death are not permitted to be part of a death investigation or crime scene processing, in any way. That is not their job. He wasn't just "at" the scene-- he was "inside" the scene. That is a clear conflict of interest. Period.
Paul Pfingst's presence and involvement is extremely significant. And he knew he shouldn't have been there, either. He's a former prosecutor, for pete's sake. He was using his recognition and influence, period, imo.
He was there even BEFORE the ME's office responded (lol, it's easier to get a defense attorney than a medical examiner), with the body still there, uncovered and displayed grotesquely to gawkers and news helicopters. He absolutely used his influence to get onto, and inside the scene of what was initially suspected by police to be a murder, and he CONTINUED to use the influence and knowledge from his previous position as DA by making calls into the interrogation rooms (unpublished numbers) at the jail to influence what was happening with Adam Shacknai.
I think this is a very strong argument for conflict of interest and impropriety in the investigation, and I hope the AG's office agrees at some point.
MyBelle
12-16-2012, 04:53 PM
This is another huge nagging thing. Why in the world would they not have re-tested him? Why in the world was NS allowed to make excuses and not do her scheduled test? Doesn't LE have to follow a certain protocol? Follow the leads until they end? If one detective, officer, Sargent decides something must be done, isn't it done?
Worse, is that it was glossed over, lied about. AS passed the test. Not true. MSM blaring this, and SDSO has nothing to say but to tell the Z family that they should cease and desist or they'll "open the file"?
Smacks of wrongdoing....and maybe a cover up.
Always, MOO
It only smacks of wrongdoing to those who believe there is a vast conspiracy of multiple law enforcement agencies all corruptly working together to cover-up a murder. That maybe happens in tv fiction.
Polygraphs are purely voluntary and there is an expense involved. The examiner found Adam to be credible. There was an added emotional element in that Max's condition was deteriorating. Emotions can impact the results of a poly. I think the priority of Max's family was to focus on Max.
JMO
inthedark14
12-16-2012, 05:21 PM
It only smacks of wrongdoing to those who believe there is a vast conspiracy of multiple law enforcement agencies all corruptly working together to cover-up a murder. That maybe happens in tv fiction.
Polygraphs are purely voluntary and there is an expense involved. The examiner found Adam to be credible. There was an added emotional element in that Max's condition was deteriorating. Emotions can impact the results of a poly. I think the priority of Max's family was to focus on Max.
JMO
<snipped>
On July 15, 2011, Adam Shacknai was given a lie detector test. Search warrants that were unsealed by a San Diego judge reveal, that: "Detective Lebitski and Detective Hillen facilitated a polygraph examination of Adam Shacknai with Polygrapher Paul Redden. Redden said based on the analysis of the polygraph charts he couldn't draw a conclusion, but felt Adam was being truthful during the examination."
However, Paul Redden tells RadarOnline.com exclusively: "The test results from the polygraph that I gave Adam Shacknai were inconclusive, therefore, I wasn't able to form an analysis from the results of the polygraph test. Adam did not necessarily pass or fail the test. Whenever I deal with an inconclusive result, I always recommend a follow-up test. I have never been asked to do a follow-up test for Adam Shacknai.
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/adam-shacknai-polygrapher-recommended-another-lie-detector-test
Even though the examiner felt he was being truthful he also stated that he always recommends a follow up test. Which was never given.
MyBelle
12-16-2012, 06:25 PM
<snipped>
On July 15, 2011, Adam Shacknai was given a lie detector test. Search warrants that were unsealed by a San Diego judge reveal, that: "Detective Lebitski and Detective Hillen facilitated a polygraph examination of Adam Shacknai with Polygrapher Paul Redden. Redden said based on the analysis of the polygraph charts he couldn't draw a conclusion, but felt Adam was being truthful during the examination."
However, Paul Redden tells RadarOnline.com exclusively: "The test results from the polygraph that I gave Adam Shacknai were inconclusive, therefore, I wasn't able to form an analysis from the results of the polygraph test. Adam did not necessarily pass or fail the test. Whenever I deal with an inconclusive result, I always recommend a follow-up test. I have never been asked to do a follow-up test for Adam Shacknai.
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/adam-shacknai-polygrapher-recommended-another-lie-detector-test
Even though the examiner felt he was being truthful he also stated that he always recommends a follow up test. Which was never given.
Radaronline thrives on innuendo. Nowhere have I seen LE say they asked Adam to repeat the poly and he declined. If the examiner thought he was being truthful, it's no surprise that LE decided not to go to the expense of repeating it.
JMO
inthedark14
12-16-2012, 08:17 PM
Radaronline thrives on innuendo. Nowhere have I seen LE say they asked Adam to repeat the poly and he declined. If the examiner thought he was being truthful, it's no surprise that LE decided not to go to the expense of repeating it.
JMO
So by your decision this MSM quote isn't good because you don't like the reporting? This is a legitimate MSM link where they SPOKE to the examiner. If you don't like it, that's cool, but it doesn't make it any less the truth.
Always MOO
MyBelle
12-17-2012, 01:04 AM
So by your decision this MSM quote isn't good because you don't like the reporting? This is a legitimate MSM link where they SPOKE to the examiner. If you don't like it, that's cool, but it doesn't make it any less the truth.
Always MOO
I didn't say it wasn't true, I said it doesn't say that LE asked Adam to take another poly. Adam can't take another poly if one isn't offered to him.
I don't believe I am alone in my dislike of innuendo being twisted into fact.
JMO
Mrs. Holmes
05-12-2013, 02:20 PM
I believe this should be brought to the top of the forum. Below is the link to the actual video of the Lie Detector Test of Adam Shacknai.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/22221589/news-8-exclusive-the-polygraph-exam-of-adam-shacknai
Mrs. Holmes
05-12-2013, 02:48 PM
I believe this should be brought to the top of the forum. Below is the link to the actual video of the Lie Detector Test of Adam Shacknai released by CBS on May 10th.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/22221589/news-8-exclusive-the-polygraph-exam-of-adam-shacknai
I noted that this is only roughly 5 minutes of tape. If you watch the time stamp it shows roughly 7:30Pm and then 8:40 PM so we are seeing a very small portion of this.
IzzyBlanche
05-12-2013, 03:47 PM
SDPD's handling of the case went beyond being just incompetent. It shows they tried their best to cover something up and make the whole case go away.
I don't mean to nitpick but I just want to point out that it was the San Diego Sheriff's Department, not SDPD. SDPD was not involved in the case.
I agree with the sentiment wholeheartedly though.
Mrs. Holmes
05-12-2013, 05:23 PM
Wow... watch carefully.... when AS answers NO.. he shakes his head yes....
then at the end... do you think she committed suicide.. he says YES and shakes his head no...
Wow....
Serpico
05-12-2013, 08:03 PM
All I will say about this is that I think it is REAL hinky that LE gave AS a pass on this inconclusive polygraph test. Especially considering he is the only one around that we know knows about mariners knots. No proof RZ did. And considering he was the only other person we knew to be around the place that night. Real hinky....
Well....we know there was also a Romano twin on the premises Tuesday night and until I read a witness stating she saw a female with either Romano twin description walking back to DS house on a clear summer night.....I'll just assume she stayed longer than she told police.
Serpico
05-12-2013, 08:10 PM
(Copying my post from the "suicide" thread, as it fits in this discussion.)
I don't think there is any way to "spin" Paul Pfingst's fairly immediate presence on the scene, as innocuous, expected, collaborative, friendly, helpful, or anything similar. And his presence can't be dismissed, either. It's highly significant.
He wasn't just "passing by" either. He was contacted rapidly, just a few hours after the body was discovered, from someone who knew exactly how to get almost immediate personal access to this former prosecutor in private practice. The person who called, IMO, was not flipping thru the yellow pages, or searching google for "find a lawyer." And the person who contacted Paul Pfingst was successful at persuading this high power attorney to literally drop what he was doing for the day, and get in the car to go to the scene. To represent "someone", who we now know was Adam. To "protect his rights", I'm sure.
Paul Pfingst's presence is a huge piece of evidence in how Rebecca's death investigation unfolded in the earliest hours-- imo, and the opinion of many others. It's not innuendo or speculation-- it is factual that he was contacted, he went there, he was photographed inside the crime tape with investigators (and in a "chummy" fashion), he was calling the police station unpublished numbers to intervene/ interfere with the questioning of AS-- who, from Ann Rule's descriptions, didn't even know he HAD an attorney, at that point. And if I'm not mistaken, AS was not even still at the mansion when PP showed up, so an excuse that he came to pick up his client can't even be used.
Attorneys who represent anyone connected with a suspicious death are not permitted to be part of a death investigation or crime scene processing, in any way. That is not their job. He wasn't just "at" the scene-- he was "inside" the scene. That is a clear conflict of interest. Period.
Paul Pfingst's presence and involvement is extremely significant. And he knew he shouldn't have been there, either. He's a former prosecutor, for pete's sake. He was using his recognition and influence, period, imo.
He was there even BEFORE the ME's office responded (lol, it's easier to get a defense attorney than a medical examiner), with the body still there, uncovered and displayed grotesquely to gawkers and news helicopters. He absolutely used his influence to get onto, and inside the scene of what was initially suspected by police to be a murder, and he CONTINUED to use the influence and knowledge from his previous position as DA by making calls into the interrogation rooms (unpublished numbers) at the jail to influence what was happening with Adam Shacknai.
I think this is a very strong argument for conflict of interest and impropriety in the investigation, and I hope the AG's office agrees at some point.
Don't forget that his former Assistant DA was now IN 2011 the Special Advisor/Consultant to the Sheriff's Office and was also the former SDSO Director of Forensic Services in charge of the SDSO Crime Lab and investigators....GREG THOMPSON.
Betty P
05-12-2013, 09:46 PM
Wow... watch carefully.... when AS answers NO.. he shakes his head yes....
then at the end... do you think she committed suicide.. he says YES and shakes his head no...
Wow....
When he 's describing how he ran into the house to get a knife to cut her down, he 's also shaking his head "no ". It will be interesting if we get to see the entire interview.
Serpico
05-13-2013, 09:57 AM
When he 's describing how he ran into the house to get a knife to cut her down, he 's also shaking his head "no ". It will be interesting if we get to see the entire interview.
Betty - I didn't pick up on that initially so I went back to look at it again. I did
read yesterday about a dozen "experts" discussing tips on lie detection and shaking one's head different than the answer he/she gives is a "lie tell."
MaybeNotToday
05-13-2013, 10:57 AM
I have made a mental note to NEVER take a lie detector test. When you do something in good faith, this is how you are treated?
bourne
05-13-2013, 11:17 AM
Adam said in the polygraph exam, "She couldn't live with it."
Are these the exact same words used by Nina in her audio interview with CBS8?
I'm hoping someone can refresh my memory on a couple things.
The person administering the LDT clearly states the results are in the "inconclusive" range. He also says he's not really worried about it. But I think I recall reading there was a recommendation for a second LDT that was ignored. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm hoping someone can remind me.
Also, I recall Gore reported AS passed the LDT "with flying colors." I don't recall when he said this, however. Did he state this publicly, or was this something he said privately to the Zahau family?
TIA.
*Lash*
05-13-2013, 11:53 AM
CBS8 video of AS polygraph - extended full 5 mins.
http://kfmb.videodownload.worldnow.com/KFMB_20130511015525187AA.mp4
Do we know when AS was given the lie detector test?
*Lash*
05-13-2013, 12:00 PM
Adam said in the polygraph exam, "She couldn't live with it."
Are these the exact same words used by Nina in her audio interview with CBS8?
From Nina's interview -
REPORTER: There's no doubt in your mind or in Dina's mind that Rebecca committed suicide?
NINA: Oh I think she committed suicide for sure. Oh yeah. I think she was guilty. I think she felt guilty. I think that -- my experience, I'm only speaking for myself -- but I think from my experience, she knew more than what she disclosed.
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/nina_romano.mp3
Betty P
05-13-2013, 12:05 PM
I'm hoping someone can refresh my memory on a couple things.
The person administering the LDT clearly states the results are in the "inconclusive" range. He also says he's not really worried about it. But I think I recall reading there was a recommendation for a second LDT that was ignored. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm hoping someone can remind me.
Also, I recall Gore reported AS passed the LDT "with flying colors." I don't recall when he said this, however. Did he state this publicly, or was this something he said privately to the Zahau family?
TIA.
Renowned Polygrapher: Jonah Shacknai’s Brother Needs To Take Another Lie Detector Test
http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/renowned-polygrapher-jonah-shacknais-brother-needs-take-another-lie-detector-test/
On July 15, 2011, Adam Shacknai was given a lie detector test. Search warrants that were unsealed by a San Diego judge reveal, that “Detective Lebitski and Detective Hillen facilitated a polygraph examination of Adam Shacknai with Polygrapher Paul Redden. Redden said based on the analysis of the polygraph charts he couldn’t draw a conclusion, but felt Adam was being truthful during the examination.”
BBM
*Lash*
05-13-2013, 12:13 PM
Where did AS get the knife? From a drawer as stated in the Ann's book or from a butcher block as stated during Adam's polygraph examination?
Snip-
AS: I think.. I got to reach her and realized I wasn't going to be able to get her off without a knife. You know I tried -- I realized -- quite quickly. You know I realized this thing will happen like this. I went around the back into the house which the door was open. I got a knife with the butcher block thing -- came back out -- cut her down -- and tried called 9-1-1 shortly thereafter -- if not before.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/22221589/news-8-exclusive-the-polygraph-exam-of-adam-shacknai?clienttype=generic
Snip -
“The Memphis tugboat captain said he was crossing the square of grass below the balcony of Becky’s bedroom/office when he saw her hanging there. Luckily, he had been able to find the right drawer in the large kitchen where knives were kept, and he grabbed one and raced back to cut her down.”
Excerpt From: Rule, Ann. “Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors.” This material may be protected by copyright.
*Lash*
05-13-2013, 12:16 PM
Do we know when AS was given the lie detector test?
“Redden began the test at 6:40 and continued for two hours. At first he asked only innocuous general questions. He noted his subject’s response to deliberate “lie questions.”
Excerpt From: Rule, Ann. “Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors.” This material may be protected by copyright.
Carioca
05-13-2013, 12:28 PM
Oops, posted this on wrong thread, so have moved it here... Apologies.
Not easy to discern certain AS' words at times. His thoughts often jump nonsensically. All corrections welcome:
News 8 Exclusive - The polygraph examination of Adam Shacknai
http://www.cbs8.com/story/22221589/n...nttype=generic
Date: 7/13/2011
Time video begins: 7:33:17PM
AS: I think.. I got to reach her and realized I wasn't going to be able to get her off without a knife. You know I tried -- I realized -- quite quickly. You know I realized this thing will happen like this. I went around the back into the house which the door was open. I got a knife with the butcher block thing -- came back out -- cut her down -- and tried called 9-1-1 shortly thereafter -- if not before.
PR: OK. Did you at any point think she was alive?
AS: I'm well.. you know. Call me a can-do person or something -- but -- probably not. But I thought, how would I answer -- for this if I didn't try something. I'm a responsible person.
PR: OK. Tried some CPR?
AS: Yeah
PR: OK. Have you been trained in that? With the boat stuff?
AS: Years and years ago. Not enough to amount to anything.
PR: OK. So, tried some CPR. Now -- and so -- was there anything else unusual? What kind of chain (unintelligible?) was it, like a bed sheet or what?
AS: It was a ******ing rope, man. Red rope. Unless my memory is failing me, you know, something -- it wasn't just something that you would be laying around, somewhere. I wouldn't think.
PR: Alright. So could you tell whether it was a material or something?
AS: Kinda like a Kevlar, synthetic
PR: OK. Like nylon...
AS: Yeah
PR: Or something like that?
PR: OK, and -- so what, there were no shoes, not a stitch on?
AS: Not that I recall
PR: So her hands were hanging down by her side then?
AS: I don't know because here's the thing. I don't remember about her hands. Because after I cut her down I went to take her pulse -- you know -- at some point, which I didn't even do at first. I remember having to get something out of the way -- of her hands -- and that's why I've been asking these detectives and stuff if she was tied up or what. I mean I'm like, I'm kind of in all a blur [cross talk]...
PR: Blur yeah.
AS: You know but -- but I remember having to move something to try to get her pulse out of the way -- you know very much [cross talk]
PR: You don't remember anything unusual?
AS: I don't remember that, but I just -- I fear -- I hope to God she wasn't tied up but -- and again -- I asked the detectives there -- you know -- I don't recall.
PR: Now as far as the CPR. You did the chest compressions and you did blow in her mouth, in her nose?
AS: I got the -- once I got 9-1-1 on the line, I went ahead and blew in her mouth.
PR: OK. And her mouth was open and clear and everything?
AS: I didn't even do all that at first. I should have. I didn't. I didn't do that tilt. I think they said tilt the head back and do that. I didn't do any of that stuff.
PR: OK
AS: I just put my mouth over hers and said **** it, it's my brother's girlfriend and I'll do it. And I did it.
PR: And there was no tape across her mouth or anything like this?
AS: No. There was a ******ing gag in her mouth though.
PR: A gag in her mouth?
AS: Yeah
PR: What was that?
AS: Something, yeah. I had to pull something out of her ****ing mouth. It was like a blue scarf.
[time stamp jumps from 7:36:54PM to 7:40:29PM]
PR: Does it seem to you like it's a suicide then at that point?
AS: YES ABSOLUTELY [AS sits forward in chair, then leans back]
PR: OK, and what makes you think that?
AS: It's just what crossed my mind you know -- just because -- I thought she was THERE, when Max got hurt,supposedly. UM UM -- you know maybe she just can't LIVE with it, you know. I've never been in that situation. I'm not going to -- I can't say that I could, especially if it was someone else's kid, you know.
PR: Did she seem suicidal or anything like that?
AS: No. I don't get -- you know, I mean -- you just don't ever think of that.
[time stamp jumps from 7:40:29PM to 8:11:49PM]
PR: Look straight ahead listen and concentrate on each question.
AS: OK
PR: Only respond yes or no
AS: OK
PR: But the most important thing of all is what?
AS: Be honest?
PR: That's it. Be honest, don't lie, be honest in your answers [unintelligible]
PR: Regarding the death of Rebecca, do you know for sure if anyone did anything to hurt her that resulted in her death?
AS: No
PR: Regarding the death of Rebecca, did you yourself do anything to her that resulted in her death?
AS: No
PR: Regarding the death of Rebecca, were you in that guest room that she was found hanging from at any time during the night?
AS: No
[time stamp jumps from 8:22:47PM to 8:40:19PM]
PR: These are hard tests to do when you're this close to what's going on here like you said...
AS: Yeah
PR: Because it's hard to get rid of that emotional factor
AS: Right
PR: Um, and you could have done a whole lot worse on the test (AS shakes head). And you could have done a whole lot better too.
AS: (makes a psshoo sound - snaps finger)
PR: Based on what I've got here -- we're kind of in the inconclusive range. But it clearly doesn't bother me that much, because I think that if you were (unintelligible) that close, there is no way I could prevent you from giving me SOME reaction. But as far as being involved in it, I am not INCLINED to believe that. Um, but you're definitely not flunking my test, so that's kinda -- somewhat of a good thing.
[Time stamp jumps from 8:41:44PM to 8:44:44PM]
PR: Appreciate your cooperation. I know it's a tough thing to do and certainly appreciate you working with us on this. Wasn't so bad, was it?
AS: It was.
PR: It wasn't as bad as you thought it was going to be though?
AS: It was.
PR: It was?
AS: Yeah.
[Time stamp ends 8:44:56PM]
-----------------------------
There were 10 questions. The video only includes 3 of them. Within the first 12 hours Rebecca's death was being investigated as a homicide. AS discovered her body, thus any investigation would consider him a POI. Why is Mr Redden so darn appreciative and accommodating to AS?! Will comment more on this under separate comment.
ETA: http://www.cbs8.com/story/22221589/news-8-exclusive-the-polygraph-exam-of-adam-shacknai
*Lash*
05-13-2013, 12:31 PM
Thank you Carioca!
:yourock:
Carioca
05-13-2013, 12:35 PM
Betty - I didn't pick up on that initially so I went back to look at it again. I did
read yesterday about a dozen "experts" discussing tips on lie detection and shaking one's head different than the answer he/she gives is a "lie tell."
And note AS never says Rebecca's name. He says Max's, but not the victim's, even though Mr Redden includes Rebecca's name in his questions. This is often a red flag: distancing from the victim. I am not accusing AS; this is just an observation in this case.
Interesting article on reading body language when taking a LDT:
http://suite101.com/article/how-to-read-body-language-and-become-a-lie-detector-a348664#.UY-c4UYS-vw.email
*Lash*
05-13-2013, 12:40 PM
And note AS never says Rebecca's name. He says Max's, but not the victim's, even though Mr Redden includes Rebecca's name in his questions. This is often a red flag: distancing from the victim. I am not accusing AS; this is just an observation in this case.
Interesting article on reading body language when taking a LDT:
http://suite101.com/article/how-to-read-body-language-and-become-a-lie-detector-a348664#.UY-c4UYS-vw.email
Kind of like when Adam told the 911 operator I got a girl hung herself.
ADAM SHACKNAI: Yeah, I got a girl hung herself in the guest house of ah... it's on Ocean Blvd. across from the hotel; the same place that you came and got the kid yesterday.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/16150816/911-call-released-in-hanging-death-at-coronados-spreckels-mansion
Where did AS get the knife? From a drawer as stated in the Ann's book or from a butcher block as stated during Adam's polygraph examination?
Snip-
AS: I think.. I got to reach her and realized I wasn't going to be able to get her off without a knife. You know I tried -- I realized -- quite quickly. You know I realized this thing will happen like this. I went around the back into the house which the door was open. I got a knife with the butcher block thing -- came back out -- cut her down -- and tried called 9-1-1 shortly thereafter -- if not before.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/22221589/news-8-exclusive-the-polygraph-exam-of-adam-shacknai?clienttype=generic
Snip -
“The Memphis tugboat captain said he was crossing the square of grass below the balcony of Becky’s bedroom/office when he saw her hanging there. Luckily, he had been able to find the right drawer in the large kitchen where knives were kept, and he grabbed one and raced back to cut her down.”
Excerpt From: Rule, Ann. “Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors.” This material may be protected by copyright.
PURPLE BBM - Sorry if I am somehow having a dumb moment, I just can't make sense of this. I thought there was a kitchen entry into the courtyard? When AS says he went around to the back... where is the back?
Serpico
05-13-2013, 01:30 PM
PURPLE BBM - Sorry if I am somehow having a dumb moment, I just can't make sense of this. I thought there was a kitchen entry into the courtyard? When AS says he went around to the back... where is the back?
Hey Time -
A few answers to this and previous question. Previous question - Adam began his polygraph at 6:40 pm Wed. evening and lasted 2 hours. Paul Redden gave Adam Shacknai FOUR polygraphs tests. Source :Ann Rule's book - page 184.
Where is back? The Shacknai family always KNEW over the years the backdoor was unlocked. Dina knew it,Nina knew it and Adam who said he's visited there 4-5 times knew it. However, Tuesday night was the first time Rebecca was ALONE in that big main house with the Romano sister's lurking about...kinda wonder if Rebecca didn't LOCK that backdoor and the backdoor was UNLOCKED by a key.....Jonah's "key" that he had with his car keys that he lent to one of the Romano girls Tuesday night at Rady Hospital at 9;00 pm. This just another reason why we need to hear/read from ADT Security about the service contract/policy at 1043 Ocean Blvd. Sheriff Gore at his sham Sept. 2,2011 Press Conference when asked replied tersely by saying,' it (security system) wasn't on/working properly" next question. That has been the ONLY official word about ADT Security except that from 2008-2011 there were 8 police responses to 1043 Ocean Blvd. when the alarm was tripped so it wasn't working well enough back then.
Carioca
05-13-2013, 02:05 PM
Adam said in the polygraph exam, "She couldn't live with it."
Are these the exact same words used by Nina in her audio interview with CBS8?
NINA:
No, no, my thinking was she did know more than what she said and more than she admitted to -- that was my initial reaction was oh my gosh -- like what did she do -- what on earth did she do that she couldn’t live with -- that was my initial reaction.
ADAM:
AS: It's just what crossed my mind you know -- just because -- I thought she was THERE, when Max got hurt, supposedly. UM UM -- you know maybe she just can't LIVE with it, you know. I've never been in that situation. I'm not going to -- I can't say that I could, especially if it was someone else's kid, you know.
Hey Time -
A few answers to this and previous question. Previous question - Adam began his polygraph at 6:40 pm Wed. evening and lasted 2 hours. Paul Redden gave Adam Shacknai FOUR polygraphs tests. Source :Ann Rule's book - page 184.
Thank you! What I'm trying to figure out is how much opportunity he had to talk with others before that poly and how that may effect the goofy answers we hear from him. IDK. I wonder who he was in contact with between the time he called 911 and over 12 hours later.
Where is back? The Shacknai family always KNEW over the years the backdoor was unlocked. Dina knew it,Nina knew it and Adam who said he's visited there 4-5 times knew it. However, Tuesday night was the first time Rebecca was ALONE in that big main house with the Romano sister's lurking about...kinda wonder if Rebecca didn't LOCK that backdoor and the backdoor was UNLOCKED by a key.....Jonah's "key" that he had with his car keys that he lent to one of the Romano girls Tuesday night at Rady Hospital at 9;00 pm. This just another reason why we need to hear/read from ADT Security about the service contract/policy at 1043 Ocean Blvd. Sheriff Gore at his sham Sept. 2,2011 Press Conference when asked replied tersely by saying,' it (security system) wasn't on/working properly" next question. That has been the ONLY official word about ADT Security except that from 2008-2011 there were 8 police responses to 1043 Ocean Blvd. when the alarm was tripped so it wasn't working well enough back then.I still don't know where the back or back door is. Seems to me it would either be the courtyard or a door facing towards the back right below the balcony room - I have unsuccessfully searched for floor plans. There is some door near the kitchen coming out into the courtyard.
Good points on the security and why nothing informative about it instead of just a vague statement.
I believe Nina and Dina knew exactly where to get in if a door was left unlocked, but even so they quite possibly could have had house keys on those keys from Jonahs car or I can see that Jonah may have never changed the locks and Dina still had an old key.
Carioca
05-13-2013, 02:41 PM
PURPLE BBM - Sorry if I am somehow having a dumb moment, I just can't make sense of this. I thought there was a kitchen entry into the courtyard? When AS says he went around to the back... where is the back?
There was no kitchen entry directly from the courtyard. It was necessary to go through the gate to the right under the balcony, then sharp left to reach the door to the kitchen. (Or go through door to the left at end of walkway under the balcony that led into the main house, take a sharp right to the butler's pantry, then into the kitchen.)
After the renovation, there is now a door from the kitchen directly onto the courtyard.
There was no kitchen entry directly from the courtyard. It was necessary to go through the gate to the right under the balcony, then sharp left to reach the door to the kitchen. (Or go through door to the left at end of walkway under the balcony that led into the main house, take a sharp right to the butler's pantry, then into the kitchen.)
After the renovation, there is now a door from the kitchen directly onto the courtyard.
So the door in this picture is not directly connected or close to the kitchen?
bourne
05-13-2013, 03:36 PM
NINA:
No, no, my thinking was she did know more than what she said and more than she admitted to -- that was my initial reaction was oh my gosh -- like what did she do -- what on earth did she do that she couldn’t live with -- that was my initial reaction.
ADAM:
AS: It's just what crossed my mind you know -- just because -- I thought she was THERE, when Max got hurt, supposedly. UM UM -- you know maybe she just can't LIVE with it, you know. I've never been in that situation. I'm not going to -- I can't say that I could, especially if it was someone else's kid, you know.
Wow, the phrasing is almost identical! Can this be a coincidence? Hmm...
I had a friend in college who committed suicide. I know "couldn't live with it" was not a phrase I and my friends' family and friends used to describe him when asked why we thought he might have killed himself.
I remember I was in shock and numb, and was in denial for a few days. What I and his family did do was ask questions like "Why would he do that...", "I don't know why...", "I don't understand why he didn't confide in us...", "what was happening in his life...", "did someone say or do something to him...", "Who was the last one to see/talk to him..." All QUESTIONS. Not one of us presumed he couldn't live with himself, and like Rebecca, my friend had been going through a crisis too at that time.
Again, we asked questions. NOT ONCE did we say "he couldn't live with it."
Very very odd that BOTH Nina and Adam stated that Rebecca "couldn't live with it..." It's like they were projecting their own frames of mind onto Rebecca. But how strange if they didn't confide in each other beforehand that both would have independently come up with similar thoughts that when a nonbiological child that belongs to a friend/partner is injured and in a hospital (and had not perished), a woman would immediately feel such guilt as to decide to take her own life over the child's injury. I find that absurd illogical thinking.
Serpico
05-13-2013, 05:59 PM
NINA:
No, no, my thinking was she did know more than what she said and more than she admitted to -- that was my initial reaction was oh my gosh -- like what did she do -- what on earth did she do that she couldn’t live with -- that was my initial reaction.
ADAM:
AS: It's just what crossed my mind you know -- just because -- I thought she was THERE, when Max got hurt, supposedly. UM UM -- you know maybe she just can't LIVE with it, you know. I've never been in that situation. I'm not going to -- I can't say that I could, especially if it was someone else's kid, you know.
Excellent. I have now looked at Adam's 5 minute video about 20 times and it seems I pick up something each time. I know this wasn't the entire polygraph video but when Adam explains right at the beginning his exhaustive efforts to remove the noose around RZ's neck which forced him to run to the main house for a knife. TWO things stand out.
1- why didn't he simply remove the GAG out of her mouth then rather than about 5 minutes later AFTER he cut her down? Red Flag story to me.
2- why doesn't Adam ever mention that after grabbing the 3 legged table top to stand on to cut RZ down the difficulty of keeping the table steady without falling down. Geez ...after he cut her down there is at least 270 lbs of combined weight on top of that 3 legged table top.Red Flag Alert....Adam mentions bringing up porn on his iPhone out of the clear blue yet fails to mention THE crucial moment of the morning....cutting RZ down and never mentions how difficult it was with a 3 legged table top.Hmmm.... kinda makes you wonder if RZ was ever cut down rather placed on the lawn from the get go.
Carioca
05-13-2013, 07:05 PM
So the door in this picture is not directly connected or close to the kitchen?
Here you go, Time: the floor plan for the main house and guest house.
Red arrows show the route from courtyard to the kitchen through the main house. So yes, that door in picture directly left of big kitchen window leads to the kitchen, but not directly...
Purple arrows show the route to the kitchen through the gate and back door, the one AS allegedly took.
Note location of guesthouse kitchen, bedrooms and living room.
http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o614/mackpro/spreckels_floorplan_zps43d2ec56.jpg
Here you go, Time: the floor plan for the main house and guest house.
Red arrows show the route from courtyard to the kitchen through the main house. So yes, that door in picture directly left of big kitchen window leads to the kitchen, but not directly...
Purple arrows show the route to the kitchen through the gate and back door, the one AS allegedly took.
Note location of guesthouse kitchen, bedrooms and living room.
Thank you so much, now I understand! I looked all over and couldn't find those so this is much appreciated.
I am so laughing at the gate label :)
Not sure if the guesthouse kitchen would be any closer, but AS must have known the back door was unlocked, huh?
Honestly I find it very odd that Rebecca was even in that balcony room... are there stairs leading up there directly? Why would Nina even go to the back. Oh, yeah to see if Rebecca's car was in the garage. I wouldn't do that at my sister's ex husband's house to hunt down his girlfriend/partner. I find it creepy that she even owns up to taking that liberty at someone elses house.
You're super!!!
inthedark14
05-13-2013, 09:04 PM
So, has anyone found out anything about Mr. P. calling 911? Has anyone seen anything about this?
Serpico
05-13-2013, 10:09 PM
Thank you so much, now I understand! I looked all over and couldn't find those so this is much appreciated.
I am so laughing at the gate label :)
Not sure if the guesthouse kitchen would be any closer, but AS must have known the back door was unlocked, huh?
Honestly I find it very odd that Rebecca was even in that balcony room... are there stairs leading up there directly? Why would Nina even go to the back. Oh, yeah to see if Rebecca's car was in the garage. I wouldn't do that at my sister's ex husband's house to hunt down his girlfriend/partner. I find it creepy that she even owns up to taking that liberty at someone elses house.
You're super!!!
Wasn't the car RZ used to pick up Adam in the DRIVEWAY Tuesday night?
Wasn't the car RZ used to pick up Adam in the DRIVEWAY Tuesday night?
You are right! Thanks for correcting me.
"Romano then walked around the driveway side of the house and noticed Zahau's vehicle in the driveway."
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15982091/exclusive-max-shacknais-aunt-talks-about-coronado-mansion-deaths
I guess she walked to the gate then because she claimed she saw the light on.
"There's a gate that goes to the backyard. I didn't touch the gate. I didn't try to open the gate in any way. I just kind of tried to look through," Romano said.
Romano noticed a light on in an upstairs bedroom; the same room where detectives believe Zahau bound and gagged herself while naked, tied a rope around her own neck and jumped to her death off the balcony.
"That overhead light was on. So that was the only light that I saw in the house. The kitchen was dark, everything was dark. So I thought, that's kind of strange because her car's here; that light's on, that's weird. So then I just thought, ‘Maybe she just doesn't want to talk to me,'" according to Romano. "So, I turned around and I left right away and I walked back to my sister's house, got ready for bed and went to sleep."
iSleuth
05-14-2013, 01:25 PM
Here you go, Time: the floor plan for the main house and guest house.
Red arrows show the route from courtyard to the kitchen through the main house. So yes, that door in picture directly left of big kitchen window leads to the kitchen, but not directly...
Purple arrows show the route to the kitchen through the gate and back door, the one AS allegedly took.
Note location of guesthouse kitchen, bedrooms and living room.
http://i1150.photobucket.com/albums/o614/mackpro/spreckels_floorplan_zps43d2ec56.jpg
Love that arrow pointing to the gate
"Didn't touch" TYTY:floorlaugh:
iSleuth
05-14-2013, 01:27 PM
Excellent. I have now looked at Adam's 5 minute video about 20 times and it seems I pick up something each time. I know this wasn't the entire polygraph video but when Adam explains right at the beginning his exhaustive efforts to remove the noose around RZ's neck which forced him to run to the main house for a knife. TWO things stand out.
1- why didn't he simply remove the GAG out of her mouth then rather than about 5 minutes later AFTER he cut her down? Red Flag story to me.
2- why doesn't Adam ever mention that after grabbing the 3 legged table top to stand on to cut RZ down the difficulty of keeping the table steady without falling down. Geez ...after he cut her down there is at least 270 lbs of combined weight on top of that 3 legged table top.Red Flag Alert....Adam mentions bringing up porn on his iPhone out of the clear blue yet fails to mention THE crucial moment of the morning....cutting RZ down and never mentions how difficult it was with a 3 legged table top.Hmmm.... kinda makes you wonder if RZ was ever cut down rather placed on the lawn from the get go.
maybe it was "fog"
I am so glad that there is something happening in this case.
love and hugs to everyone in this thread and welcome to all newcomers!
bourne
05-14-2013, 01:31 PM
You are right! Thanks for correcting me.
"Romano then walked around the driveway side of the house and noticed Zahau's vehicle in the driveway."
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15982091/exclusive-max-shacknais-aunt-talks-about-coronado-mansion-deaths
I guess she walked to the gate then because she claimed she saw the light on.
But can we trust Nina's statements? And if we do, wasn't Zahau's vehicle then stated by police in a report that it was found in the garage the next day (Wed) after her death? If so, one has to wonder WHO MOVED Zahau's car in the middle of the night AND WHY?
But can we trust Nina's statements? And if we do, wasn't Zahau's vehicle then stated by police in a report that it was found in the garage the next day (Wed) after her death? If so, one has to wonder WHO MOVED Zahau's car in the middle of the night AND WHY?
I'll have to dig. I'm wondering if I thought it could have been in the garage because of driveway pictures taken at the crime scene on Wed? Seems we talked about how did the other car (SUV?) get there.
Serpico
05-14-2013, 02:32 PM
But can we trust Nina's statements? And if we do, wasn't Zahau's vehicle then stated by police in a report that it was found in the garage the next day (Wed) after her death? If so, one has to wonder WHO MOVED Zahau's car in the middle of the night AND WHY?
My recollection.....SDSO detectives peeked in the garage windows and took down a license number of a car with AZ plates parked inside. However, I think
the license plate number was wrong and I thought there were 3 cars. Jonah's,Rebecca's and the car in the garage. I'll go back research unless someone has answers.
My recollection.....SDSO detectives peeked in the garage windows and took down a license number of a car with AZ plates parked inside. However, I think
the license plate number was wrong and I thought there were 3 cars. Jonah's,Rebecca's and the car in the garage. I'll go back research unless someone has answers.
See if the thread I just bumped helps any.
Serpico
05-15-2013, 12:48 PM
Oops, posted this on wrong thread, so have moved it here... Apologies.
Not easy to discern certain AS' words at times. His thoughts often jump nonsensically. All corrections welcome:
News 8 Exclusive - The polygraph examination of Adam Shacknai
http://www.cbs8.com/story/22221589/n...nttype=generic
Date: 7/13/2011
Time video begins: 7:33:17PM
AS: I think.. I got to reach her and realized I wasn't going to be able to get her off without a knife. You know I tried -- I realized -- quite quickly. You know I realized this thing will happen like this. I went around the back into the house which the door was open. I got a knife with the butcher block thing -- came back out -- cut her down -- and tried called 9-1-1 shortly thereafter -- if not before.
PR: OK. Did you at any point think she was alive?
AS: I'm well.. you know. Call me a can-do person or something -- but -- probably not. But I thought, how would I answer -- for this if I didn't try something. I'm a responsible person.
PR: OK. Tried some CPR?
AS: Yeah
PR: OK. Have you been trained in that? With the boat stuff?
AS: Years and years ago. Not enough to amount to anything.
PR: OK. So, tried some CPR. Now -- and so -- was there anything else unusual? What kind of chain (unintelligible?) was it, like a bed sheet or what?
AS: It was a ******ing rope, man. Red rope. Unless my memory is failing me, you know, something -- it wasn't just something that you would be laying around, somewhere. I wouldn't think.
PR: Alright. So could you tell whether it was a material or something?
AS: Kinda like a Kevlar, synthetic
PR: OK. Like nylon...
AS: Yeah
PR: Or something like that?
PR: OK, and -- so what, there were no shoes, not a stitch on?
AS: Not that I recall
PR: So her hands were hanging down by her side then?
AS: I don't know because here's the thing. I don't remember about her hands. Because after I cut her down I went to take her pulse -- you know -- at some point, which I didn't even do at first. I remember having to get something out of the way -- of her hands -- and that's why I've been asking these detectives and stuff if she was tied up or what. I mean I'm like, I'm kind of in all a blur [cross talk]...
PR: Blur yeah.
AS: You know but -- but I remember having to move something to try to get her pulse out of the way -- you know very much [cross talk]
PR: You don't remember anything unusual?
AS: I don't remember that, but I just -- I fear -- I hope to God she wasn't tied up but -- and again -- I asked the detectives there -- you know -- I don't recall.
PR: Now as far as the CPR. You did the chest compressions and you did blow in her mouth, in her nose?
AS: I got the -- once I got 9-1-1 on the line, I went ahead and blew in her mouth.
PR: OK. And her mouth was open and clear and everything?
AS: I didn't even do all that at first. I should have. I didn't. I didn't do that tilt. I think they said tilt the head back and do that. I didn't do any of that stuff.
PR: OK
AS: I just put my mouth over hers and said **** it, it's my brother's girlfriend and I'll do it. And I did it.
PR: And there was no tape across her mouth or anything like this?
AS: No. There was a ******ing gag in her mouth though.
PR: A gag in her mouth?
AS: Yeah
PR: What was that?
AS: Something, yeah. I had to pull something out of her ****ing mouth. It was like a blue scarf.
[time stamp jumps from 7:36:54PM to 7:40:29PM]
PR: Does it seem to you like it's a suicide then at that point?
AS: YES ABSOLUTELY [AS sits forward in chair, then leans back]
PR: OK, and what makes you think that?
AS: It's just what crossed my mind you know -- just because -- I thought she was THERE, when Max got hurt,supposedly. UM UM -- you know maybe she just can't LIVE with it, you know. I've never been in that situation. I'm not going to -- I can't say that I could, especially if it was someone else's kid, you know.
PR: Did she seem suicidal or anything like that?
AS: No. I don't get -- you know, I mean -- you just don't ever think of that.
[time stamp jumps from 7:40:29PM to 8:11:49PM]
PR: Look straight ahead listen and concentrate on each question.
AS: OK
PR: Only respond yes or no
AS: OK
PR: But the most important thing of all is what?
AS: Be honest?
PR: That's it. Be honest, don't lie, be honest in your answers [unintelligible]
PR: Regarding the death of Rebecca, do you know for sure if anyone did anything to hurt her that resulted in her death?
AS: No
PR: Regarding the death of Rebecca, did you yourself do anything to her that resulted in her death?
AS: No
PR: Regarding the death of Rebecca, were you in that guest room that she was found hanging from at any time during the night?
AS: No
[time stamp jumps from 8:22:47PM to 8:40:19PM]
PR: These are hard tests to do when you're this close to what's going on here like you said...
AS: Yeah
PR: Because it's hard to get rid of that emotional factor
AS: Right
PR: Um, and you could have done a whole lot worse on the test (AS shakes head). And you could have done a whole lot better too.
AS: (makes a psshoo sound - snaps finger)
PR: Based on what I've got here -- we're kind of in the inconclusive range. But it clearly doesn't bother me that much, because I think that if you were (unintelligible) that close, there is no way I could prevent you from giving me SOME reaction. But as far as being involved in it, I am not INCLINED to believe that. Um, but you're definitely not flunking my test, so that's kinda -- somewhat of a good thing.
[Time stamp jumps from 8:41:44PM to 8:44:44PM]
PR: Appreciate your cooperation. I know it's a tough thing to do and certainly appreciate you working with us on this. Wasn't so bad, was it?
AS: It was.
PR: It wasn't as bad as you thought it was going to be though?
AS: It was.
PR: It was?
AS: Yeah.
[Time stamp ends 8:44:56PM]
-----------------------------
There were 10 questions. The video only includes 3 of them. Within the first 12 hours Rebecca's death was being investigated as a homicide. AS discovered her body, thus any investigation would consider him a POI. Why is Mr Redden so darn appreciative and accommodating to AS?! Will comment more on this under separate comment.
My understanding there were 10 questions but asked FOUR different times during the 2 hour polygraph.Ann Rule book page 184.Paul Redden gave Adam Shacknai four polygraph tests.
I have trouble with Adam's statement....."I FEAR.....I hope to god she wasn't tied up".....I know I've mentioned this before but I want to PRESS this statement.
*Adam previously indicated he spent time trying to get the noose around her neck which lead to his decision to run into the main house to grab a knife.
*Adam now has the knife and moves the 3 legged table top in position to get on top to cut the rope and get Rebecca down. Adam never mentions the difficulty or ease in cutting the robe nor does he ever mention the difficulty standing atop the 3 legged table top trying to maintain his balance as he would have to hold RZ's body as he cut the rope... right? No easy fete.
*Adam at this stage of the ordeal has seen Rebecca from a short distance,close up and is now holding her up as he cuts the rope and Adam says," I FEAR...I hope to god she wasn't tied up." Where were HIS arm(s) when he was holding her up not to notice she was tied up?
*Adam in the 5 minute video doesn't discuss the extreme difficulty it must've been with at least 270 combined lbs. atop the 3 legged table top using one arm or both arms to secure her body once he freed her neck from the rope and how he was able to maintain his balance without falling to the ground.
*Adam now has her body on the grass and he's trying to get her pulse and mentions something about her hands so I'm assuming he is trying to take her pulse from her WRIST...right? Well, weren't her hands TIED BEHIND HER BACK? How can Adam have any doubts whatsoever that Rebecca was tied up.....that statement is all RED FLAG IMO.
bourne
05-15-2013, 06:25 PM
My understanding there were 10 questions but asked FOUR different times during the 2 hour polygraph.Ann Rule book page 184.Paul Redden gave Adam Shacknai four polygraph tests.
I have trouble with Adam's statement....."I FEAR.....I hope to god she wasn't tied up".....I know I've mentioned this before but I want to PRESS this statement.
*Adam previously indicated he spent time trying to get the noose around her neck which lead to his decision to run into the main house to grab a knife.
*Adam now has the knife and moves the 3 legged table top in position to get on top to cut the rope and get Rebecca down. Adam never mentions the difficulty or ease in cutting the robe nor does he ever mention the difficulty standing atop the 3 legged table top trying to maintain his balance as he would have to hold RZ's body as he cut the rope... right? No easy fete.
*Adam at this stage of the ordeal has seen Rebecca from a short distance,close up and is now holding her up as he cuts the rope and Adam says," I FEAR...I hope to god she wasn't tied up." Where were HIS arm(s) when he was holding her up not to notice she was tied up?
*Adam in the 5 minute video doesn't discuss the extreme difficulty it must've been with at least 270 combined lbs. atop the 3 legged table top using one arm or both arms to secure her body once he freed her neck from the rope and how he was able to maintain his balance without falling to the ground.
*Adam now has her body on the grass and he's trying to get her pulse and mentions something about her hands so I'm assuming he is trying to take her pulse from her WRIST...right? Well, weren't her hands TIED BEHIND HER BACK? How can Adam have any doubts whatsoever that Rebecca was tied up.....that statement is all RED FLAG IMO.
I actually am still on the fence about Adam. I'm generally very good at reading people but it's hard to get a read on Adam because: <modsnip> and c) can't see his eyes in the polygraph exam and his eyeglasses/sunglasses were very dark-tinted.
I agree with other posters that his nonverbal behaviors contradict his statements (e.g., shaking head while saying "yes", and nodding while saying "no"). But I think this could be because he's either truly frustrated or he's trying real hard to appear exasperated and frustrated by the questioning.
In one instance, to me, it appeared there may have been a third party in the room, as when polygrapher Redden is asking Adam a question, Adam appears to be looking elsewhere at someone else...Is it possible that a lawyer or someone else was present in the polygraph exam besides Adam and Redden?
I also agree that it seems RIDICULOUS on its face when Adam asserted he didn't know whether her hands were tied up or not. He had at least an hour with her at the crime scene, I'd assume given that LE/paramedics didn't show up for quite a while since he was unable to give the correct address. And also, her laying there after he supposedly cut her down, with her knees bent and ankles bound with a very SALIENT RED ROPE should have been clearly visible...But again, he was wearing that dark-colored glasses...Although he clearly stated she had a "BLUE scarf" in her "f*ckin' mouth" so he wasn't color-blind with his glasses, which I assume he had been also wearing that morning...
AND Adam claimed he did CPR on her, although from the clip in the polygraph video he only described barely doing mouth-to-mouth...No tilting of her head back, no chin upward, though he did claim he took the "gag" out of her mouth.
So I really don't know whether Adam was involved or not in Rebecca's death...although he does use similar phrase to Nina that Rebecca "couldn't live with it" and that to me means either he spoke with Nina or another POI who used the exact phrase about Rebecca's state of mind, and since Adam appears to be "stoned" or <modsnip> before he submitted to the polygraph, he might just have latched onto the phrase...
Anyhow, I would like to see the full two-hour polygraph video to make a better assessment of Adam. Can Lash or someone who knows how to obtain public records acquire the full video for us? :)
bourne
05-15-2013, 06:42 PM
My recollection.....SDSO detectives peeked in the garage windows and took down a license number of a car with AZ plates parked inside. However, I think
the license plate number was wrong and I thought there were 3 cars. Jonah's,Rebecca's and the car in the garage. I'll go back research unless someone has answers.
Seems from the police report there were only two cars parked INSIDE the garage. But if that's the case, why did Nina say in an audio interview to CBS8 that she saw Rebecca's car parked in the driveway (not the garage)?
Is Nina lying? And why would she lie?
If Nina's telling the truth, who moved the car then from the driveway to the garage? And why?
IQuestion
05-22-2013, 07:12 PM
I have been following this story for a long time. The most surprising part of Adam's LDT was the overwhelming anger and "bitterness" that permeated the 5 minute clip. I expected to hear a calm interview, from an easy going southern sailor who had experienced a long and exhausting day. The "ah ha!" moment for me was the added the word, "SUPPOSEDLY" when he referenced Rebecca finding MS after the accident. It implies to me that he did not believe it was an accident, had conversations with others who did not believe it was an accident and the "accident theory" was already being doubted by family members when he was at the hospital.
He noted that she was naked, had no shoes on, had a gag in her (effin) mouth ....but COULD NOT SEE THAT HER LEGS AND ARMS WERE BOUND with the "red KEVLAR SYNTHETIC rope??? He had his hands around her body, noticed her hands, noticed her feet had no shoes, removed the "blue scarf gag" from her mouth, worried about what "people would say," put his hands on her chest, put his mouth on hers...etc.
But couldn't tell whether or not she was tied up?? If he was so sure she committed suicide, why would he worry about whether or not she was bound? IMO, even he realizes his willingness/eagerness to push the "suicide scenario" would be in doubt if she was bound. He isn't worried about suicide due to guilt, but "fears, hopes to God" she wasn't tied up...so odd.
IQuestion
05-24-2013, 01:54 AM
Adding to the obvious strangeness of this case...WHO HIRES A DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR A SUICIDE? How many times have you ever heard of a defense attorney arriving on the scene 10 hours before the medical examiner arrives? AS flies 2000 miles to be of support for his brother, I don't know what I would do under the same circumstances...just can't imagine how devastated (or angry?) I would be after seeing my young nephew on life support and less than 12 hours later finding my brother's girlfriend hanging from the balcony. Supposedly and Alledgedly are synonyms people use to express sarcastic doubt.
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