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SuziQ
09-26-2011, 11:22 AM
I didn't see a thread for this topic, and after last nights radio show I thought I would start a discussion thread.

Link to WS radio show from last night.
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=910&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.websleuths.com%2Fforums%2Fsho wthread.php%3Ft%3D149901&v=1&libid=1317050145620&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogtalkradio.com%2Fwebsleuth s%2F2011%2F09%2F25%2Fwebsleuths-radio&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.websleuths.com%2Fforums%2Fsho wthread.php%3Ft%3D149901%26page%3D2&title=Websleuths%20Radio%20Incredible%20Informatio n%20about%20Susan%20and%20Josh%20Powell%20-%20Websleuths%20Crime%20Sleuthing%20Community&txt=CLICK%20HERE%20TO%20LISTEN&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13170501570481

Per Kiirsi last night not verbatim: Susan was very ill the three weeks prior to her disappearance. The day Susan disappeared, JP called his dad for a pancake recipe. They spoke for 15 minutes. Kiirsi says in hindsight, this really bothers her. Feels bodily fluids not blood on carpet removed from home. Loveseat also removed from home.

Also, previously there was information about Susan being so sick she received a blessing from her LDS Bishop. Josh acted inappropriately and made a joke out of it. If anyone has a link to this info, can you post it here? Thank You!

runsdeep
09-26-2011, 11:25 AM
I didn't see a thread for this topic, and after last nights radio show I thought I would start a discussion thread.

Link to WS radio show from last night.
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=910&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.websleuths.com%2Fforums%2Fsho wthread.php%3Ft%3D149901&v=1&libid=1317050145620&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogtalkradio.com%2Fwebsleuth s%2F2011%2F09%2F25%2Fwebsleuths-radio&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.websleuths.com%2Fforums%2Fsho wthread.php%3Ft%3D149901%26page%3D2&title=Websleuths%20Radio%20Incredible%20Informatio n%20about%20Susan%20and%20Josh%20Powell%20-%20Websleuths%20Crime%20Sleuthing%20Community&txt=CLICK%20HERE%20TO%20LISTEN&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13170501570481

Per Kiirsi last night not verbatim: Susan was very ill the three weeks prior to her disappearance. The day Susan disappeared, JP called his dad for a pancake recipe. They spoke for 15 minutes. Kiirsi says in hindsight, this really bothers her. Feels bodily fluids not blood on carpet removed from home. Loveseat also removed from home.

Also, previously there was information about Susan being so sick she received a blessing from her LDS Bishop. Josh acted inappropriately and made a joke out of it. If anyone has a link to this info, can you post it here? Thank You!

sure seems that way.

waltzingmatilda
09-26-2011, 11:47 AM
We need to check out poisoning death cases. Someone on another thread mentioned anti-freeze and how it tastes sweet. Could this be a possibility? I have been told that poisoning by antifreeze is a slow agonizing death. (UGH hate typing that) But could it take weeks before the victim succombs to the poison? (My neighbor and I discussed anti-freeze poisoning as he used to live in the country and some of his dogs were poisoned in this manner.)

I am going to research what the 'Black widow' used to poison her husbands. BBL.

wm

ETA The Black widow's fifth husbands' death apparantly pointed to arsenic poisoning. It was never proven because she had his remains cremated before his son even learned (in the media) that his father died.

Betty Neumar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

passionflower
09-26-2011, 12:00 PM
since SP was so infatuated with Susan, I am wondering if Susan was suppose to just be 'drugged' and given to SP by JP to teach her lessons? KWIM?
She got sicker and in transport died. Then these 2 nuts had 'other' plans.
I am thinking SP wanted her real bad alive.
JP was goofy enough to do what dad wanted and everything went nuts????

dog.gone.cute
09-26-2011, 12:50 PM
I didn't see a thread for this topic, and after last nights radio show I thought I would start a discussion thread.

Link to WS radio show from last night.
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=910&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.websleuths.com%2Fforums%2Fsho wthread.php%3Ft%3D149901&v=1&libid=1317050145620&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blogtalkradio.com%2Fwebsleuth s%2F2011%2F09%2F25%2Fwebsleuths-radio&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.websleuths.com%2Fforums%2Fsho wthread.php%3Ft%3D149901%26page%3D2&title=Websleuths%20Radio%20Incredible%20Informatio n%20about%20Susan%20and%20Josh%20Powell%20-%20Websleuths%20Crime%20Sleuthing%20Community&txt=CLICK%20HERE%20TO%20LISTEN&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13170501570481

Per Kiirsi last night not verbatim: Susan was very ill the three weeks prior to her disappearance. The day Susan disappeared, JP called his dad for a pancake recipe. They spoke for 15 minutes. Kiirsi says in hindsight, this really bothers her. Feels bodily fluids not blood on carpet removed from home. Loveseat also removed from home.

Also, previously there was information about Susan being so sick she received a blessing from her LDS Bishop. Josh acted inappropriately and made a joke out of it. If anyone has a link to this info, can you post it here? Thank You!


BBM: OMG ... this is AWFUL ! Knowing what we know about JP and SP, it sounds to me like JP was "posioning" her ... :sick::furious::sick:

:waitasec: And WHY would a "grown man" call his "daddy" for a "pancake recipe" ... when these recipes are on the box ? :maddening:

Have they checked the Powell's computers for "poisoning" searches, etc. ? ?

This is just so sad and awful !

Prayers for Susan and that she is found SOON !

MOO ...

runsdeep
09-26-2011, 01:38 PM
BBM: OMG ... this is AWFUL ! Knowing what we know about JP and SP, it sounds to me like JP was "posioning" her ... :sick::furious::sick:

:waitasec: And WHY would a "grown man" call his "daddy" for a "pancake recipe" ... when these recipes are on the box ? :maddening:

Have they checked the Powell's computers for "poisoning" searches, etc. ? ?

This is just so sad and awful !

Prayers for Susan and that she is found SOON !

MOO ...

search bamboo and get "how to make chloroform"

SCGHOST
09-26-2011, 01:59 PM
It sure seems that way

tezi
09-26-2011, 02:13 PM
I have a fear of pancakes now, thanks Josh....

Seriously, look on the Bisquick box, the recipe is there. It doesn't take four hours to make pancakes...

lonetraveler
09-26-2011, 02:13 PM
We need to check out poisoning death cases. Someone on another thread mentioned anti-freeze and how it tastes sweet. Could this be a possibility? I have been told that poisoning by antifreeze is a slow agonizing death. (UGH hate typing that) But could it take weeks before the victim succombs to the poison? (My neighbor and I discussed anti-freeze poisoning as he used to live in the country and some of his dogs were poisoned in this manner.)

I am going to research what the 'Black widow' used to poison her husbands. BBL.

wm

ETA The Black widow's fifth husbands' death apparantly pointed to arsenic poisoning. It was never proven because she had his remains cremated before his son even learned (in the media) that his father died.

Betty Neumar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Neumar)

There was also the trial of Cynthia Sommers tried for arsenic poisoning of her Military husband. She was later cleared.

All you have to do is google "Deadly Women" and there are dozens of cases of poison deaths.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10479896/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/marine-wife-accused-poisoning-husband/

lonetraveler
09-26-2011, 02:28 PM
Blanche Taylor Moore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This woman is on death row. She was a friend of my sisters and even brought my brother-in-law banana pudding at the hospital in Winston Salem, the same time she was bringing arsenic loaded banana pudding to one of her victims who died.

I'm thinking that Susan was being poisoned and that the pancakes held the final fatal dose. JMO.

lonetraveler
09-26-2011, 02:32 PM
Arsenic poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Phar_Lap.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Phar_Lap.jpg/230px-Phar_Lap.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/8/85/Phar_Lap.jpg/230px-Phar_Lap.jpg

Signs and symptomsSymptoms of arsenic poisoning begin with headaches, confusion, severe diarrhea, and drowsiness. As the poisoning develops, convulsions and changes in fingernail pigmentation called leukonychia may occur. When the poisoning becomes acute, symptoms may include diarrhea, vomiting, blood in the urine, cramping muscles, hair loss, stomach pain, and more convulsions. The organs of the body that are usually affected by arsenic poisoning are the lungs, skin, kidneys, and liver. The final result of arsenic poisoning is coma to death.

dog.gone.cute
09-26-2011, 02:42 PM
search bamboo and get "how to make chloroform"


Aha, the Casey Anthony Trial ... not only did LE find "chloroform" searches on the home computer, they found searches for "neck breaking" !

Back to Susan ... did Law Enforcement check Josh's home computer when they lived in Utah for any kind of "poisoning" searches ? omg, I hate to even type this one, but burying and moving bodies ?

And besides "pancake recipes" :innocent: and "porn" ... I wonder if LE found any "poisoning" searches on Steve's computer or anything else ?

MOO ...

Kimster
09-26-2011, 02:43 PM
I wonder if any poisons affect the ears? Kiirsi said Susan had an earache.

TGIRecovered
09-26-2011, 02:54 PM
I think she was poisoned but not killed by poison.

I think that Josh put her in the van while she was gravely ill, "went camping" and either left her in the wilderness to die or killed her by some violent means and dumped her body.

I think he went back to where he left her when he rented the car. Maybe he moved her or maybe just finished burying her.

Steve is involved as the mastermind of the whole thing and possible accomplice in finishing her off and or concealing the body and he definitely has souveniers. Maybe clothes, maybe hair, maybe pics. Even body parts would not be totally out of the relm of possibilities, IMO.

runsdeep
09-26-2011, 03:00 PM
Antifreeze Poisoning

Symptoms
Airways and lungs
Rapid breathing
No breathing
Bladder and kidneys
Blood in urine
No urine output or decreased urine output
Eyes, ears, nose, and throat
Blurred vision
Blindness
Heart and blood
Change in body's acid-base balance, which can lead to organ failure
Rapid heartbeat
Low blood pressure
Muscles and joints
Leg cramps
Nervous system
Coma
Convulsions
Dizziness
Fatigue
Headache
Slurred speech
Stupor (lack of alertness)
Unconsciousness
Unsteady walk
Weakness
Skin
Blue lips and fingernails
Stomach and gastrointestinal tract
Nausea
Vomiting

Outlook (Prognosis)
For ethylene glycol: Death may occur within the first 24 hours. If patient survives, there may be little or no urine output for several weeks before the kidneys recover. Any brain damage may be permanent. Vision loss or blindness may also be permanent.

For methanol: Methanol is extremely toxic. As little as 2 TABLEspoons can kill a child, while 2 to 8 oz. can be deadly for an adult. The ultimate outcome depends on how much was swallowed and how soon appropriate care was given.

waltzingmatilda
09-26-2011, 03:06 PM
I wonder if any poisons affect the ears? Kiirsi said Susan had an earache.

Someone on another thread suggested Mercury poisoning. Please don't ask for a link:innocent:

wm

waltzingmatilda
09-26-2011, 03:14 PM
Arsenic poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic_poisoning)

Signs and symptomsSymptoms of arsenic poisoning begin with headaches, confusion, severe diarrhea, and drowsiness. As the poisoning develops, convulsions and changes in fingernail pigmentation called leukonychia may occur. When the poisoning becomes acute, symptoms may include diarrhea, vomiting, blood in the urine, cramping muscles, hair loss, stomach pain, and more convulsions. The organs of the body that are usually affected by arsenic poisoning are the lungs, skin, kidneys, and liver. The final result of arsenic poisoning is coma to death.

~above BBM~

Susan's hair apppeared to be thinning in pics preceding her disappearance.

BTW, Hi lonetraveler!

wm

grayjay
09-26-2011, 03:16 PM
I looked up poison, earache, vomiting and hair thinning, and there was mention of lead, aluminum and mercury. I know there's aluminum in some brands of baking powder and Rumford sells one that is premium and aluminum free.

Duke Fan4
09-26-2011, 03:17 PM
Yes, I do believe she was poisoned slowly and then a fatal dose. I believe papa bear helped devise the plan and son carried it out. Not sure if papa bear helped disposed of the body though, but if he did I don't think the body will be recovered. JMOO Enjoy reading the other theories and comments. You guys ROCK!

Desdemona
09-26-2011, 03:37 PM
Poisoning ... by carbon monoxide maybe?

Far-out possibility for sure; throwing it out only because JP's implausible story of the night in question includes repeated mention of using a "new generator." (Please forgive me if this has already been brought up somewhere; I haven't seen it, so here goes):

He and the children stayed warm in the freezing temperatures with a generator and heater he had purchased two weeks earlier, Josh Powell said. Police have since seized the equipment, he said.

“Susan was with me at the generator store,” Josh Powell said, but was unable to remember the name of the store.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/50609169-78/powell-josh-susan-cox.html.csp

If the pancakes JP concocted contained something to knock out Susan, she could have then been killed very quickly by being placed inside a room, garage, or vehicle with the generator running. Death would have occurred in only a few short minutes.


"DANGER! Using a generator indoors WILL KILL YOU IN MINUTES. Exhaust contains carbon monoxide, a gas you cannot see or smell. NEVER use in the home or in partly enclosed areas such as garages."

[..]

"The exhaust from generators contains poisonous carbon monoxide, an odorless, invisible killer. "The amount of carbon monoxide from one generator is equivalent to hundreds of idling cars," said CPSC Chairman Hal Stratton. "Carbon monoxide from a portable generator can kill you and your family in minutes."

In 2005, at least 55 people died from carbon monoxide poisoning associated with portable generators. The aftermath of last year's four major hurricanes resulted in a majority (28) of those deaths."

http://pediatrics.about.com/od/recallsandsafetyalerts/ig/Recalls/Carbon-Monoxide-Poisoning.htm



Do I recall a neighbor reporting early in this case, that they had witnessed the van being driven into the garage that evening around 8:30? Not sure how that would tie into a timeline for this theory, but it might.

Also, if there were a deliberate carbon monoxide buildup inside the garage, JP could have had a concern about the gas somehow migrating into the house itself. That could possibly explain why JP needed to get the boys out of the house overnight, to let the carbon monoxide dissipate (while disposing of his wife's body).

---

This part is O/T for the thread topic, but related to the above "way out" theory: JP's repeated mention of "making smores" implies he built a campfire out there somewhere -- a fire which would not have been necessary for warmth if he used a generator to heat the van as he claims he did that night. S'mores, eh? Can't help but think of those charred pieces of something found at the base of Topaz, which the cadaver dogs hit on. Hoping for answers, closure, and justice for Susan and her family.

oh_gal
09-26-2011, 03:49 PM
Blanche Taylor Moore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanche_Taylor_Moore)

This woman is on death row. She was a friend of my sisters and even brought my brother-in-law banana pudding at the hospital in Winston Salem, the same time she was bringing arsenic loaded banana pudding to one of her victims who died.

I'm thinking that Susan was being poisoned and that the pancakes held the final fatal dose. JMO.

Re: Blanche Taylor Moore: Yikes!

Glad your BIL is ok!

pharmchick
09-26-2011, 04:15 PM
So if Susan was in fact poisoned with a heavy metal (aluminum, arsenic, etc.), it would show up in her hair if it was over a length of time. Wonder if LE had access to any of her hairbrushes, etc. to get a sample, or if JP packed it all away... (I don't have an exact link, but doing a search for "heavy metal poisoning hair test" on Google yields lots of results.)

I fear they won't recover her body, and hope there is some other way to prove that JP/SP have guilt in the matter.

Mountain_Kat
09-26-2011, 04:58 PM
Thallium

In the first 48 hours after serious thallium exposure, the affected individual will usually experience nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Within a few days, symptoms of nervous system damage become apparent. These symptoms can include pain, loss of reflexes, convulsions, muscle wasting, headaches, numbness, dementia, psychosis, and even coma. After two to three weeks, characteristic changes are seen in the bases of hair shafts, and there is hair loss (alopecia). Finally, after around three weeks post-exposure, heart rhythm disturbances may occur.

Chemical Poisoning

As an organic farmer, I know a bit about the symptoms of chemical poisoning wrt herbicides, pesticides and insecticides. Many of these chemicals can cause symptoms similiar to Susan's (if exposed to in large quantities, or over a period of time). Earaches and tinnitus are common symptoms in over-exposure to many of these chemicals. Particularly carbamates like aldicarb, carbaryl and carbofuran. Interesting to consider, since Josh was so into his lawn and garden.

SuziQ
09-26-2011, 05:45 PM
I wonder if any poisons affect the ears? Kiirsi said Susan had an earache.

IIRC, Ringing in the ears is a sign of medicine toxicity.

Desdemona
09-26-2011, 05:58 PM
One more quick o/t moment here (please forgive; this will be the last):

JP told investigators that he left to take the boys camping between 11:45pm and midnight on the night Susan disappeared.

There was a neighbor who, upon returning home around 11:45 pm that night, heard the Powells' car alarm sounding inside the garage for "at least two minutes." He noted that the garage door was down (closed), and that the house was completely dark, with no exterior lights on, and no inside lights visible from any windows. He and his sister debated whether to notify the Powells -- he decided not to, figuring that the sound would surely wake them up if they were sleeping; that they would deal with it themselves. And then it stopped.

(Oh, and this is presumably a different neighbor than the one who reported seeing the van enter the garage at 8:30pm.)

Video of MSM story about neighbor who heard late-night car alarm:
Neighbor Talks About Noise At Powell Home The Night Susan Went Missing - YouTube


(Mods, please move if too o/t in this thread, with my apologies.)

lonetraveler
09-26-2011, 06:04 PM
I wonder if any poisons affect the ears? Kiirsi said Susan had an earache.

I wonder if it could have been ringing in her ears.

Never mind, I should have read the thread first, I should have known that y'all would have already addressed this................LOL

Desdemona
09-26-2011, 06:06 PM
Reading the poisoning symptoms posted in this thread, remember what KH said in her WS Radio interview? She mentioned that Susan had told her that the boys both had diarrhea, supposedly from eating too many home grown fruits and veggies.

Per WS member gwenabob's post:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Websleuths Radio Incredible Information about Susan and Josh Powell

Mountain_Kat
09-26-2011, 06:19 PM
Reading the poisoning symptoms posted in this thread, remember what KH said in her WS Radio interview? She mentioned that Susan had told her that the boys both had diarrhea, supposedly from eating too many home grown fruits and veggies.

Per WS member gwenabob's post:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Websleuths Radio Incredible Information about Susan and Josh Powell (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7158177&postcount=7)

Just my opinion, but that's complete nonsense. We seldom eat anything we haven't grown ourselves, and we've never once gotten sick from anything we've eaten.
Now, perhaps if Susan were canning, and was a novice...I could see that.

ETA: OR if they had animals who defecated around vegtable gardens, or overdosed them on chemicals and ate them shortly thereafter...then being sick from the garden might make sense.

gwenabob
09-26-2011, 06:48 PM
Just my opinion, but that's complete nonsense. We seldom eat anything we haven't grown ourselves, and we've never once gotten sick from anything we've eaten.
Now, perhaps if Susan were canning, and was a novice...I could see that.

Well, that is what Kiirsi said. I have heard of people who eat too much fresh fruit when they are not accustomed to it can have some undesirable results. I don't think it had anything to do with bad canning or bad food, but their digestive track not being used to it. They probably ate a lot of white bread and macaroni and cheese and other cheap food until their garden started producing. Just my guess.

gwenabob
09-26-2011, 07:01 PM
HatesSociopaths: I always enjoy your posts. Thank you. I agree with your scenario. I do believe that Susan's murder was premeditated. JP probably had a couple of dates and times in his mind. That 15 min call with Daddy - was the time is now. Hate to even ponder this thought, but if SP participated in the planning of Susan's death, he MAY have also had the opportunity to live out his fantasy/obsession. Drugged or deceased. Ugh. Thoughts?

I agree with the above. I think it had been planned out and that was the day it finally happened. I think Josh took so long to prepare the meal because he was hoping their guest would go home. I think he poisoned Susan's pancakes and she went to sleep. He went sledding with the boys hoping to come home to find her dead. I think she vomited or something on the living room carpet and he had to clean that up. He packed her in the back of the car and the alarm went off during that time. He then put the boys in the car and they took off to find a super good hiding spot for her body. Whether she was yet dead or died enroute, or--heaven forbid--after being left in the elements close to death, we may never know.

I believe Josh did this alone, but with close instruction and encouragement from his father in order to avoid losing the boys and paying child support. After all, that is the way the Powell family has done things for many generations.

hollyblue
09-26-2011, 07:11 PM
Well, that is what Kiirsi said. I have heard of people who eat too much fresh fruit when they are not accustomed to it can have some undesirable results. I don't think it had anything to do with bad canning or bad food, but their digestive track not being used to it. They probably ate a lot of white bread and macaroni and cheese and other cheap food until their garden started producing. Just my guess.

I can vouch for that. :blushing: I love fruit...and sometimes get carried away with fresh peaches or nectarines. But did they have something that evening she canned...as it was too late in the year to have anything from the garden?

Yet, something made me sit up and pay attention :waitasec: when Kiirsi stated he called his father for the recipe....and made sure he told SP too. There was a video or article that I had "begged" posters to see if they could find, because I couldn't.. and it was when JP was moving. Jovanna stated that Josh made the comment to her.. "I'll fix lunch for you." When I heard that I thought...He's being a smart@** and his narcissism is in play. He was playing with people...and being bold about it!!! IMO

lonetraveler
09-26-2011, 07:16 PM
Just my opinion, but that's complete nonsense. We seldom eat anything we haven't grown ourselves, and we've never once gotten sick from anything we've eaten.
Now, perhaps if Susan were canning, and was a novice...I could see that.

ETA: OR if they had animals who defecated around vegtable gardens, or overdosed them on chemicals and ate them shortly thereafter...then being sick from the garden might make sense.

I do know for a fact that bug killer on fresh fruits and vegetables will make you very sick. My grandfather always had the most beautiful garden but used enough chemicals to kill a horse.

lonetraveler
09-26-2011, 07:21 PM
~above BBM~

Susan's hair apppeared to be thinning in pics preceding her disappearance.

BTW, Hi lonetraveler!

wm

:seeya:

DLT88
09-26-2011, 07:25 PM
Thallium

In the first 48 hours after serious thallium exposure, the affected individual will usually experience nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Within a few days, symptoms of nervous system damage become apparent. These symptoms can include pain, loss of reflexes, convulsions, muscle wasting, headaches, numbness, dementia, psychosis, and even coma. After two to three weeks, characteristic changes are seen in the bases of hair shafts, and there is hair loss (alopecia). Finally, after around three weeks post-exposure, heart rhythm disturbances may occur.

Chemical Poisoning

As an organic farmer, I know a bit about the symptoms of chemical poisoning wrt herbicides, pesticides and insecticides. Many of these chemicals can cause symptoms similiar to Susan's (if exposed to in large quantities, or over a period of time). Earaches and tinnitus are common symptoms in over-exposure to many of these chemicals. Particularly carbamates like aldicarb, carbaryl and carbofuran. Interesting to consider, since Josh was so into his lawn and garden.


Never thought of this before, but I hope they did. If she was poisoned, hair loss certainly could have happened on her pillow and in the shower and in her hairbrush. This hair would have included the roots which could certainly be tested for poisoning. I hope they took some of this as evidence.

hollyblue
09-26-2011, 07:25 PM
There was also the trial of Cynthia Sommers tried for arsenic poisoning of her Military husband. She was later cleared.

All you have to do is google "Deadly Women" and there are dozens of cases of poison deaths.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10479896/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/marine-wife-accused-poisoning-husband/

Cleaning agents he sold in his work? Just think how many household cleaning products have poisons in the them. Also, what was the @ home daughter studying if she was in school? I know the brother had military background...in intelligence...as well as Asian studies at college. Many funky ingredients in oriental medicines...and I know first hand many herbal products that are on the market can be toxic if not taken properly. He could have put something in her beverage also, just not the pancakes. imo

ETA: If anyone can link to proof the daughter AP was married--much appreciated. Also, not 100%, but I think she was in the military also...as was SP's brother.

gwenabob
09-26-2011, 07:29 PM
I can vouch for that. :blushing: I love fruit...and sometimes get carried away with fresh peaches or nectarines. But did they have something that evening she canned...as it was too late in the year to have anything from the garden?



I don't think the fresh garden food had anything to do with the pancake meal. Kiirsi was just using it as an anecdote to illustrate how Josh was so controlling with the money, she was forced to feed the boys only food from the garden on some days because that was all she had.

hollyblue
09-26-2011, 07:32 PM
One of my latest questions was answered last night in the broadcast. Where was SP in the time shortly before, during and after her disappearance. Kiirsi stated she didn't know, but detectives know and wouldn't say. Paraphrasing.

grayjay
09-26-2011, 07:50 PM
One of my latest questions was answered last night in the broadcast. Where was SP in the time shortly before, during and after her disappearance. Kiirsi stated she didn't know, but detectives know and wouldn't say. Paraphrasing.
I'm thinking this comes from the same sensibility we use here at WS, that SP is not a POI and thus releasing this info at this time is inappropriate.

JMO

Mountain_Kat
09-26-2011, 08:37 PM
I don't think the fresh garden food had anything to do with the pancake meal. Kiirsi was just using it as an anecdote to illustrate how Josh was so controlling with the money, she was forced to feed the boys only food from the garden on some days because that was all she had.

I don't believe the garden had much to do with the pancake meal either...if I recall, the menu was pancakes and scrambled eggs with cream cheese and peppers. What did strike me as odd about things the friends have said was:

1). It took Josh 4 hours to make a meal that should have taken about 30 minutes (no more than an hour even for a novice).

2). That Josh prepared and served each plate to each individual, rather than serve it family style.

3). That Susan remarked that she was chilly and sleepy after the meal and needed a nap.

4). That Josh spoke to his father regarding this meal.

Individually, each of those things don't seem all that sinister...but taken as a whole, in a case where a woman disappears the very next day? Damned curious if you ask me.

I also find it curious that Susan had reported being sick for a few weeks prior to her disappearance, and that both of the boys were experiencing diarrhea as well. Also odd that Josh seems to have controlled what everyone ate. Could these things be coincidence? Sure. But they are curious given what we now know.

JMO

Mountain_Kat
09-26-2011, 08:41 PM
I agree with the above. I think it had been planned out and that was the day it finally happened. I think Josh took so long to prepare the meal because he was hoping their guest would go home. I think he poisoned Susan's pancakes and she went to sleep. He went sledding with the boys hoping to come home to find her dead. I think she vomited or something on the living room carpet and he had to clean that up. He packed her in the back of the car and the alarm went off during that time. He then put the boys in the car and they took off to find a super good hiding spot for her body. Whether she was yet dead or died enroute, or--heaven forbid--after being left in the elements close to death, we may never know.

I believe Josh did this alone, but with close instruction and encouragement from his father in order to avoid losing the boys and paying child support. After all, that is the way the Powell family has done things for many generations.

Exactly the scenario running through my head. Word for word.

andalso
09-26-2011, 08:48 PM
I agree there is suspicion surrounding the pancakes, but what I can't figure out is how he would have made sure he did not cross contaminate Susan's with anyone else's pancakes. I mean, it's a batch...how does one person get poisoned and not the rest (sorry if this has been discussed, new to following this case).
TIA

gwenabob
09-26-2011, 08:57 PM
I agree there is suspicion surrounding the pancakes, but what I can't figure out is how he would have made sure he did not cross contaminate Susan's with anyone else's pancakes. I mean, it's a batch...how does one person get poisoned and not the rest (sorry if this has been discussed, new to following this case).
TIA

He cooked Susan's last and waited to put the poison in until he cooked hers.

HotLavaJavas
09-26-2011, 08:59 PM
I agree there is suspicion surrounding the pancakes, but what I can't figure out is how he would have made sure he did not cross contaminate Susan's with anyone else's pancakes. I mean, it's a batch...how does one person get poisoned and not the rest (sorry if this has been discussed, new to following this case).
TIA

Just sprinkle it on top, then flip it

ynotdivein
09-26-2011, 10:32 PM
MK, don't leave out that Susan had reportedly felt unwell for about three weeks prior to her disappearance, even going so far as to reassure her best friend that she wasn't pregnant.

Mountain_Kat
09-26-2011, 10:50 PM
MK, don't leave out that Susan had reportedly felt unwell for about three weeks prior to her disappearance, even going so far as to reassure her best friend that she wasn't pregnant.

It's at the bottom of my post. ;)

laytonian
09-26-2011, 11:01 PM
I'm thinking this comes from the same sensibility we use here at WS, that SP is not a POI and thus releasing this info at this time is inappropriate.

JMO

Actually, Josh was named the "only" POI long ago but interestingly, WVC PD now say that "more may be involved".

Source: KOMO News, 23 Sep 2011 (http://www.komonews.com/news/local/130457868.html)

laytonian
09-26-2011, 11:09 PM
I agree with the above. I think it had been planned out and that was the day it finally happened. I think Josh took so long to prepare the meal because he was hoping their guest would go home. I think he poisoned Susan's pancakes and she went to sleep. He went sledding with the boys hoping to come home to find her dead. I think she vomited or something on the living room carpet and he had to clean that up. He packed her in the back of the car and the alarm went off during that time. He then put the boys in the car and they took off to find a super good hiding spot for her body. Whether she was yet dead or died enroute, or--heaven forbid--after being left in the elements close to death, we may never know.

I believe Josh did this alone, but with close instruction and encouragement from his father in order to avoid losing the boys and paying child support. After all, that is the way the Powell family has done things for many generations.

I think you are correct.

On Sep 15th, my daughter and I went on a roadtrip to Ukiah CA -- and decided to take US-50. We went through both Delta, UT (saw the news trucks heading to Topaz Mountain)....and then Ely.

Just west of Ely, we saw one of the search sites: not only did it have some mines, but it's a historical area with charcoal ovens. Ward Charcoal Ovens Historic Site (http://g.co/maps/qv933). That link is a map, but there are smaller images you can click on.

We didn't have time to stop, but it was chilling reading "ovens" -- and it made me wonder if that was a secondary disposal site. If the remains were removed a couple of days after "burning" ... the fact that the Powells went nuts about the Ely search, may be a clue.

pip
09-26-2011, 11:24 PM
I think Josh acted alone but plotted her murder with his father. I tend to think he drugged her like with sleeping pills, benzos or narcotics to try to overdose her. I think he came back to get her body but she was still alive and was vomiting, or perhaps already dead and had vomited. Perhaps that is what the child meant by "mommy ouchey" if he saw her getting sick. Or, if she was dead maybe Josh just told them she was sick and had an ouchey and was sleeping. I do believe the "mommy ouchey" came directly from that night. I don't think he used poison. I also don't think he would have it in him to violently kill her. He is too much a wimp. Even if the carpet showed blood or her DNA or vomit, the problem is that he says he wasn't home. LE still has to prove he is responsible for whatever happened to her in that home. There were no signs of an intruder, so I think they probably have a pretty good case against him, given all the other circumstances. Her purse, keys and cellphone were still there. She obviously didn't clean the carpet before running off with the invisible lover. That leaves Josh. Ooooo, I wish they would arrest him and lay all their cards on the table. I'm dying to know what they have on him.

Emeralgem
09-26-2011, 11:38 PM
He cooked Susan's last and waited to put the poison in until he cooked hers.



Either that or he divided the batter, but I suspect he would still have to cook her pancakes last, to avoid having to wash or use another pan and utensils.

dovebar
09-27-2011, 12:13 AM
Pancakes seem especially easy to fix that way. As opposed to, for instance, spaghetti, lasanga, taco salad, chicken breasts.

The generator has struck me before, and I'm sure I'm not the first person to notice this, but who can't remember where they recently purchased a generator?

I can't remember where I recently purchased toothpaste. It could be one of half a dozen stores, even with my brand. But a generator? There are only a couple of possibilities, and I'd sure remember a purchase like that. It's like saying, you bought a rabbit - but can't remember where. Do you do that every day?

Dewey2Me1MoThyme
09-27-2011, 12:19 AM
In my heart I feel susan is no longer alive, and I do buy into the poisoning, but my mind keeps taking me back to Jaycee Duggard. SP wanted Susan, I think we can all pretty much agree on that. I don't think it would matter if Susan felt likewise. JMHO but if I was LE, I would be scanning SP's property and places / areas he has frequented since shortly before she went missing. I have this gut feeling either the sum of the room footprints of that home won't match the sq. ft footprint of the exterior, or there is a hidden bunker somewhere.

tiredblondy
09-27-2011, 02:29 AM
In my heart I feel susan is no longer alive, and I do buy into the poisoning, but my mind keeps taking me back to Jaycee Duggard. SP wanted Susan, I think we can all pretty much agree on that. I don't think it would matter if Susan felt likewise. JMHO but if I was LE, I would be scanning SP's property and places / areas he has frequented since shortly before she went missing. I have this gut feeling either the sum of the room footprints of that home won't match the sq. ft footprint of the exterior, or there is a hidden bunker somewhere.

I have felt the same way Dewey!!!

Dewey2Me1MoThyme
09-27-2011, 02:31 AM
Off topic - tiredblondy, I think I'm living your signature line. LOL

andalso
09-27-2011, 07:37 AM
He cooked Susan's last and waited to put the poison in until he cooked hers.

Is this what the friend who ate over said or is this a theory? I know I personally would feel very awkward and uncomfortable sitting eating my stack of pancakes while my friend sat there with an empty plate. But if that is exactly what happened, then I would say the poison in the pancakes is glaringly obvious.
Just trying to catch up on this case and fill in the blanks, in my own mind, as to what happened.

ToriV
09-27-2011, 02:40 PM
In my heart I feel susan is no longer alive, and I do buy into the poisoning, but my mind keeps taking me back to Jaycee Duggard. SP wanted Susan, I think we can all pretty much agree on that. I don't think it would matter if Susan felt likewise. JMHO but if I was LE, I would be scanning SP's property and places / areas he has frequented since shortly before she went missing. I have this gut feeling either the sum of the room footprints of that home won't match the sq. ft footprint of the exterior, or there is a hidden bunker somewhere.


I thought this too! When SP was on his media blitz talking about his "relationship" with Susan he said (of the flirting etc.)(and this is not a direct quote) that Susan enjoys it not that she enjoyed it. He used present tense not past tense. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. :sick:

oh_gal
09-27-2011, 03:15 PM
I agree there is suspicion surrounding the pancakes, but what I can't figure out is how he would have made sure he did not cross contaminate Susan's with anyone else's pancakes. I mean, it's a batch...how does one person get poisoned and not the rest (sorry if this has been discussed, new to following this case).
TIA

Not that I've every poisoned anyone (!!) but one way would be to separate the pancake batter...put Susan's in one bowl, with the added ingredients, and keep everyone else's in a different bowl. Make everyone else's pancakes first, make hers last, or use separate frying pans.

motappin
09-27-2011, 10:37 PM
I thought this too! When SP was on his media blitz talking about his "relationship" with Susan he said (of the flirting etc.)(and this is not a direct quote) that Susan enjoys it not that she enjoyed it. He used present tense not past tense. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. :sick:

I just googled it, and Jaycee Dugard was discovered August 25th, 2009. After hearing about it, SP would have had more than 3 months to plan and prepare something like this. I hadn't seriously considered that as a possibility beforehand. Someone on the radio show thread advanced the following thought: of SP telling JP how to poison Susan to "kill" her (JP called SP the day she disappeared for a special pancake recipe, for anyone who hasn't read that thread). So JP follows instructions and meets SP in a predetermined location to pass the body to him, but she is actually alive & Josh doesn't know it. SP then takes Susan somewhere and keeps her there.

Don't remember who's thoughts those were, but thanks. Totally bizarro, but so are SP and JP.

lonetraveler
09-27-2011, 10:47 PM
Is this what the friend who ate over said or is this a theory? I know I personally would feel very awkward and uncomfortable sitting eating my stack of pancakes while my friend sat there with an empty plate. But if that is exactly what happened, then I would say the poison in the pancakes is glaringly obvious.
Just trying to catch up on this case and fill in the blanks, in my own mind, as to what happened.

It would be very easy to just makeup the plates separately and then just stick them individually in the microwave to warm them prior to presenting them to be eaten.

lonetraveler
09-27-2011, 10:49 PM
I really hate to get my hopes up that Steven hid Susan away somewhere for his perverted pleasure. I truly hope that I'm wrong by thinking that Susan is dead, by her husband's hand with his father's instruction and particpation by phone.

Dewey2Me1MoThyme
09-27-2011, 10:53 PM
I really hate to get my hopes up that Steven hid Susan away somewhere for his perverted pleasure. I truly hope that I'm wrong by thinking that Susan is dead, by her husband's hand with his father's instruction and particpation by phone.

I don't know which would be worse were I Susan. Being murdered or suffering at the hands (and other body parts) of that creep.

mysteriew
09-28-2011, 10:51 AM
One question I have.

From what we have heard of the last day Susan had a friend over after church. JP was supposed to be cooking pancakes, but it took him hours. Now if we assume that the delay may have been because there was something to poison/drug Susan and that she was later killed, and that this was a planned event it leaves me with a question.

This scenario makes me think that her death had to come that night. Not tomorrow when there was no company, not next weekend, it had to come that day or night. So what made it so important that it had to happen that night?

SuziQ
09-28-2011, 10:55 AM
Anyone know what time Josh called his dad for the pancake recipe?

Taminator
09-28-2011, 11:12 AM
One question I have.

From what we have heard of the last day Susan had a friend over after church. JP was supposed to be cooking pancakes, but it took him hours. Now if we assume that the delay may have been because there was something to poison/drug Susan and that she was later killed, and that this was a planned event it leaves me with a question.

This scenario makes me think that her death had to come that night. Not tomorrow when there was no company, not next weekend, it had to come that day or night. So what made it so important that it had to happen that night?

In my opinion, he had a deadline. IIRC, he was *supposed* to start a new job that Monday. I think he had been "playing the game" as far as what Susan expected of him. He knew what the result would be if he didn't shape up. A divorce, the possibliity of having limited contact with his children, the probability that if a divorce occured, he would have to take up residence with Daddy in WA. Notice that everything he does centers around contact with his children. He had no intention of cooperating with Susan's "demands" in the long term. In his mind, he was not going to be without his boys full time. Like Daddy did with him and his siblings, he wasn't going to allow his access to his children to be controlled.

The irony is rich.

JMO

ETA: JP and SP were talking endlessly on the phone in the months leading up to Susan's disappearance. I can only imagine what those convo's were like.

JP: "..She's only giving me til our anniversary to shape up. She's gonna take the boys out of my life. What am I going to do without my boys?"

svfxt
09-28-2011, 11:21 AM
...and if she is still alive, now that SP is in Jail, is someone taking care of her??

Schmerty_Jones
09-29-2011, 05:33 PM
...and if she is still alive, now that SP is in Jail, is someone taking care of her??
"
Possibly the mentally impaired brother who goes' nekkid' at the front door?:truce:

Jaxson
09-29-2011, 06:14 PM
Is it possible (I haven't followed this case until just before Steven was arrested) that Josh drugged her to take her to his father (while pretending he went camping with the boys) for some 'fun' and Steven is the one who killed her and hid her body somewhere in WA? Knowing what we know of Steven's obsession with Susan and how weird the family is I don't see Josh having a problem with sharing her.
However I would kind of expect videos....
Every time I am on the west side I point out great spots to put a dead body which really creeps my husband out. There is so much wilderness within easy driving distances and look how long it took to discover some of the green river victims. They weren't even far off the road in some cases.

mysteriew
09-29-2011, 06:31 PM
Is it possible (I haven't followed this case until just before Steven was arrested) that Josh drugged her to take her to his father (while pretending he went camping with the boys) for some 'fun' and Steven is the one who killed her and hid her body somewhere in WA? Knowing what we know of Steven's obsession with Susan and how weird the family is I don't see Josh having a problem with sharing her.
However I would kind of expect videos....
Every time I am on the west side I point out great spots to put a dead body which really creeps my husband out. There is so much wilderness within easy driving distances and look how long it took to discover some of the green river victims. They weren't even far off the road in some cases.

A true websleuther. LOL every time I see vultures circling around here I start wondering if I should walk out and check it out. And make a note to watch the news to see if anyone is missing. And people parked along the road and not in their cars bother me too.

tiredblondy
09-29-2011, 06:32 PM
Off topic - tiredblondy, I think I'm living your signature line. LOL

LOL it's the story of my life.

Jaxson
09-29-2011, 06:38 PM
A true websleuther. LOL every time I see vultures circling around here I start wondering if I should walk out and check it out. And make a note to watch the news to see if anyone is missing. And people parked along the road and not in their cars bother me too.


Lol, yep me too (especially people not in their cars on the side of the road) and there is a spot near me in the fall that is just beautiful when the leaves are turning. The leaves turn burgundy and a deep rust color and it surrounds a stagnant pond. I always say it looks like a bloody murder scene. It looks as though it just sprayed and splattered everywhere....hubby just rolls his eyes!

Dewey2Me1MoThyme
09-29-2011, 06:41 PM
Lol, yep me too (especially people not in their cars on the side of the road) and there is a spot near me in the fall that is just beautiful when the leaves are turning. The leaves turn burgundy and a deep rust color and it surrounds a stagnant pond. I always say it looks like a bloody murder scene. It looks as though it just sprayed and splattered everywhere....hubby just rolls his eyes!

Should our families be worried about us? LOL

Jaxson
09-29-2011, 06:46 PM
Should our families be worried about us? LOL


Just a thought...maybe that's why he is so sweet to me!