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View Full Version : MO - AMBER ALERT: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #5



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mrye4709
10-07-2011, 11:45 AM
If it's true a dog went missing the same night...a baby thief and a dog thief in a quiet neighbourhood, where stuff like this "doesn't happen", on the same night.

Possibly the dog barked and was killed and taken to not leave any evidence of it. Is it possible that with all the cases lately that someone was careful to make it look as if the parents were lying? Payback for something? This would be more torture than anything else I could think of if they crossed someone at some time. I believe the parents, I don't think they did anything to the baby. People are different in different states, we talk different, act different and maybe handle sudden thrust into spotlight different. Is any of this possible?


I see the dad slow to answer alot of questions and mixing words up, I take it be be nervous, tired and trying not to show his emotions. I could see my hubby doing this and I know I would be a wreck.

I may not post on forums alot, but I have followed every case that has been in the media. I have been correct on all of them with my first instincts about the parents involvment. I sway back and forth after reading and seeing news, but my first instints were right. I hope i'm right this time and Lisa comes home safe, my opinions only.

FairM
10-07-2011, 11:45 AM
BBM

If the report is true that the parents have a lawyer, would the police not have to release that information to the lawyer?

I honestly have no clue, I'm just curious.....

well presumably they are being questioned atm as witnesses so I believe they would not have to release that information to a witness regardless of whether they had a lawyer. If that person was someone who was arrested or charged with the crime then I belive it is different - I may have that wrong though.

mrye4709
10-07-2011, 11:46 AM
Yeah, but you would think there would be a bathroom on the main floor. Maybe I missed something. Is this a two story home? Or are we talking about a basement? I just looked again and there doesn't look like there would be a 2nd story to this house.

That sure is a small room, maybe it was changed from a bathroom to a nursery and the bathroom is somewhere else?

MEM2010
10-07-2011, 11:46 AM
Breeann's parents responded with confusion at being told they failed the LD test, yet continued on in working with LE, etc...not deciding to take a stand and decide which media they would talk to, etc...JMO

Well, in the interview they confirmed that they are in fact fully cooperating with LE.

IMO, I think the "not cooperating" statement was made out of exasperation and frustration and it's now being blown out of proportion.

MOO.

AnonymousD
10-07-2011, 11:47 AM
wow.. that computer room is huge!

I'm still playing catch up, so someone may of already posted this....however, I remember last night watching an interview that the parents gave & mom stated the computer room was actually a 2nd living room that they made into their computer room.

Jaxson
10-07-2011, 11:47 AM
Have they already lawyered up!?!:eek:


Yes, Hazel posted the link to that info on the first page of this thread I believe...

nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 11:47 AM
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/10/07/police-mother-of-missing-baby-lisa-irwin-fails-lie-detector-test-parents-no-longer-cooperating-with-investigation/

Mark F has awesome explaination in this video

Shelby1
10-07-2011, 11:47 AM
Please refrain from posting Statement Analysis information until Admin has a chance to weigh in on the technique.

Thank you!!


I'm feeling stupid, but what statement analysis?

Clock's Tickin
10-07-2011, 11:48 AM
curious ... could people here think of a list of 9 or 12 suspects in a disappearance of your child?

I'd be hard-pressed to think of one (in fact I can't think of anyone atm) so just wondering if others might want to weigh in on this ...

I could, they would probably all be wrong, but when you're kid is missing,everbody is a suspect until otherwise proven--that girl at the check out who asked so many questions about her birth and when she cut her teeth. The single dad at the park, who may or may not have been flirting with me when he said she was so cute he wished he had one just like her. My uncle's wife's stepsister who is a little cuckoo anyway and has tried for years to have a baby but can't and nobody can get her on the phone right now...etc=It's just one of those things you have to do when there is nothing substantial to go on...

cluciano63
10-07-2011, 11:49 AM
Well, in the interview they confirmed that they are in fact fully cooperating with LE.

IMO, I think the "not cooperating" statement was made out of exasperation and frustration and it's now being blown out of proportion.

MOO.

I thought I read here that LE reconfirmed the "not cooperating" statement this morning...could be wrong.
In any event, talking about cooperating or not cooperating is not what might possibly help LE...talking with LE might. JMO

nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 11:49 AM
I'm feeling stupid, but what statement analysis?

it is a blog that has not always been allowed to be linked to in the past..

luckyme
10-07-2011, 11:50 AM
As far as the neighbors dog going missing. Was it a barker? Does it live inside or outside or both?
My thoughts on if it were a barker and the neighborhood was being cased the perp may have wanted to silence it for lack of a better term. Is the dog back now?

Yep! i posted a couple days ago about a intruder in my house that was hiding in the shower. They had let my barker dog out of my fence before they broke in. I found the dog later. He never dug out. the fence was open for him to run loose. so they were casing my house and knew the dog would alert. moo. this could be something. moo

Mojen
10-07-2011, 11:50 AM
I'm sorry, but in the history of the world, I don't believe a lawyer has ever found a missing child. In fact, on more than one occasion, they have hindered investigations. Unless the parents are charged with a crime, or believe they will be, I see no reason to hire a lawyer for oneself when one's child is missing. As far as media plugs, I'd be enlisting the help of every friend and relative I could find to swamp the media outlets with photos and info until my child is found. Police departments actually have people on staff to guide you in not making statements that might bring harm to your missing child. IMO-lawyering up at this stage is not a good sign...nobody has accused them of ANY WRONGDOING...yet...

With all due respect, I think it is incredibly naive to assume an attorney is not needed in a case like this. If my child was not found in the first 24 hours, you bet I would find an attorney to protect myself. That's how things work these days. It could be because I am a paralegal, but I would absolutely have an attorney protecting me.

As for the media, our area has been saturated by reports of Lisa's abduction. SATURATED. The ABC affiliate has done a tremendous job of getting the word out on all four of their channels. People are constantly talking about, taking another look at baby girls, etc. The word is out.

believe09
10-07-2011, 11:51 AM
The blog being referenced cannot be linked to on WS. if you see something like this:

http://***************************/

It means you cannot link to the blog or refer to it here. HTH. Tricia and SoSue at this point are reviewing the concept.

Shelby1
10-07-2011, 11:51 AM
it is a blog that has not always been allowed to be linked to in the past..

OHHHHHHH ok, gotcha. I'm a little slow today.

MEM2010
10-07-2011, 11:51 AM
I thought I read here that LE reconfirmed the "not cooperating" statement this morning...could be wrong.
In any event, talking about cooperating or not cooperating is not what might possibly help LE...talking with LE might. JMO

I'll check that out. Have only watched their "Today Show" interview so far today.

Clock's Tickin
10-07-2011, 11:52 AM
Things I am thankful for so far in this case:

1-there is no swimming pool
2-child was reported missing, presumably, immediately
3-no family members have made recent threats to kill each other or threatened one another with a gun
4-story was jumped on quickly be national media

=hopes for a positive outcome

mrsu
10-07-2011, 11:53 AM
No.

1. This layout scale looks way off to me.

2. If the size is correct it seems fine to me. What does she need in there? A crib and a changing table? Babies don't need much stuff in their room, plus it's close to the parents room.

You're right, it probably means nothing, but comparing the image of the back of the house with the floor plan, it doesn't appear that the scale would be off too much. I am curious where the bathroom is, but the small size of the room seems odd to me given the huge size of the office. Perhaps they just wanted the baby near them?

With the parents' room right next door, the kidnapper would have to have been extra diligent to not make a peep or have the baby cry out, and with an open floor plan, and the lights left on, hard to imagine you wouldn't notice the lights were on, unless your bedroom door was closed. MOO

Cazzie
10-07-2011, 11:53 AM
I agree. I really do not see what more they can do in this immediate area that they have not done. They have talked to everybody that I am aware of here. They have stopped every car entering here and talked to them. They have entered most houses around here and did a quick look-see. They have scoured the woods multiple times by foot, atv, and with dogs. They have lifted the manhole covers and looked.

What else are they to do around here?
Your post reminded me about the helicopter video from yesterday (link was posted on previous thread). Sorry, I didn't keep the link!

Maybe you viewed it...

They started out by zooming in on Lisa's house...then the commentary said there was a house 1-2 blocks to the west? of Lisa's where they had seen LE activity...they zoomed in on that house, talked about ATV's.

Then they panned down the steep wooded incline to the left of the plateau and showed where most of the LE vehicles were parked. They commented on many LE leaving the "parking" area (not a parking lot but on the street).

Finally, my question: :)

Do you know anything about LE activity at that house? Could it be the home of the neighbor that supposedly saw a man holding a baby in a diaper that nite that seemed to pretend to be going into a home? Could it be the home that the witness saw him pretending to go into? Or...?

mrsu
10-07-2011, 11:55 AM
No, they didn't actually come IN my house. We live far enough down i guess, but they may have also not because when they got down to us they had about 6 households of us all outside together (as usual when it is this nice out) and kinda asked us all together and all of us had the exact same info - no we didn't hear anything - no the dogs were not barking or alerting to anything that night - yes most of us had our windows at least cracked and think at least one of us would have heard or saw something if it went passed our house. We wouldn't have heard anything at their house though.

Wow. Really? Why aren't police looking IN people's homes. Especially those close by. :waitasec:

Amster
10-07-2011, 11:55 AM
I wonder if "computer room" is a converted garage?

Speaking of kids pj's...I hate, detest, despise those pjs that are skin tight!!! WHAT??? Feels like stuffing a sausage getting my grandsons chubby little arms and legs squeezed in there!! He is not around any open flame here to get his jammies caught in. When I have him in the winter, it's little sweat pants and long sleeve top!

raeann
10-07-2011, 11:55 AM
curious ... could people here think of a list of 9 or 12 suspects in a disappearance of your child?

I'd be hard-pressed to think of one (in fact I can't think of anyone atm) so just wondering if others might want to weigh in on this ...

Easily....for example....my neighbor across the street just downsized to a brand new home, there are numerous yard workers around, a couple of people working on setting up an estate type sale of her excess household furniture, and movers coming and going to get her remaining items out. I would list every single one of them as someone to be checked out, even though I am quite sure they are all perfectly honorable people. I would list anyone who had come into my home for work such as plumbing, air conditioning repair, window washing or carpet cleaning in the last six months or so. I would even list my chronically jealous and resentful brother-in-law, even though I am sure he can't go for more than two minutes without loudly making a snide comment that would wake up even the dearly departed! I would list the golf course maintenance workers who mow right up to the edge of my back yard every morning, and I would list the creepy neighbors from the next cul de sac over that walk their dog on that golf course area and stand on the tee box and stare at my house nearly everyday. I have lots of flowers and landscaping and maybe they just enjoy looking at those.....but I still find that to be kinda creepy when I see them standing there. So.....my list would be up to around twenty or more just with these. A dozen would be a short list!!!!

jmo

LaLaw2000
10-07-2011, 11:56 AM
My goodness. I have more than a few questions about what has gone on, a ton of red flags popping up all over, I feel free to say so, and I don't feel the least bit Karmic-ly dirty. For starters, I don't equate LE with vultures.

Thank you for this post, saba!

Many people feel this way about LE ....................... until they need them.

This is a very unique case in that I have never heard of one where the alledged kidnappers left all the lights on, the front door unlocked, and took all the cell phones plus the baby. Yes, there are red flags here and LE has to be able to clear the parents and then move outward.

My concern, worry, and prayers are with little baby Lisa.

Clock's Tickin
10-07-2011, 11:56 AM
With all due respect, I think it is incredibly naive to assume an attorney is not needed in a case like this. If my child was not found in the first 24 hours, you bet I would find an attorney to protect myself. That's how things work these days. It could be because I am a paralegal, but I would absolutely have an attorney protecting me.

As for the media, our area has been saturated by reports of Lisa's abduction. SATURATED. The ABC affiliate has done a tremendous job of getting the word out on all four of their channels. People are constantly talking about, taking another look at baby girls, etc. The word is out.

I do get the "protecting my butt" part of it, and I'm sure they were probably approached (never had to go looking), but my own butt would be backseat to my child---I have a faulty panic button anyway, so I can't imagine what I'd really do in those moments.

Awesome to know that the media is working overtime on this!! It is that kind of blanket coverage that can really make a difference!

matou
10-07-2011, 11:56 AM
Does anyone remember whether the 9 names given to police (now 12 names I believe) were names given from the father only? Did the mother give any names of people she thinks could have taken her daughter? TIA

Just-a-Guy
10-07-2011, 11:58 AM
I'm sorry, but in the history of the world, I don't believe a lawyer has ever found a missing child. In fact, on more than one occasion, they have hindered investigations. Unless the parents are charged with a crime, or believe they will be, I see no reason to hire a lawyer for oneself when one's child is missing. As far as media plugs, I'd be enlisting the help of every friend and relative I could find to swamp the media outlets with photos and info until my child is found. Police departments actually have people on staff to guide you in not making statements that might bring harm to your missing child. IMO-lawyering up at this stage is not a good sign...nobody has accused them of ANY WRONGDOING...yet...


In the first place, you don't know that no one has accused them. From what I read, the cops as much as did so. Are you following the media reports? Did you see the Today show article and vid? In my view, it is fair to say they have been accused. And there's certainly a lot of people here accusing them, directly or indirectly...you could be said to be one of them, in a way.

Secondly, having a lawyer to advise you is never a bad thing, really, especially if you are innocent. Among other things, a lawyer might be able to tell them how far they can push LE, whether they have to accept LE's strategies, and what other kinds of things they can do on their own to help search for the child. A good lawyer can also help smooth communications, by providing a less emotional voice between the various parties.

There are some sleazy lawyers out there, no doubt. But it is very unfair and narrow minded to make blanket assertions that imply someone must be guilty if they hired a lawyer. I had a client once whose child was abducted (case got a lot of publicity, she was released unharmed at a mall the next day). I was one of the first people he called. His family were also 9/11 victims. Sometimes people just need some good help and advice.

In da Middle
10-07-2011, 11:59 AM
One thing that interests me about the floor plan is because one of our locals, can't recall the name, is familiar with the neighborhood and stated that all the homes have similar fp's. Maybe only 4 different plans in the neighborhood.

This makes me wonder that whoever took Lisa lives in the neighborhood and is familiar with the floor plans of the homes.

moo

wm


Yep! That is why I say if it wasn't the parents (by no means saying it was them, though), it was somebody familiar to them (or neighborhood). Once you have been in a couple of the houses here you could reasonably find your way around any house here. This does not however tell you sleeping arrangements or family patterns, etc.

99% convinced of this.

liz b.
10-07-2011, 11:59 AM
Any recent "sightings" of Lisa ?

FairM
10-07-2011, 12:00 PM
You're right, it probably means nothing, but comparing the image of the back of the house with the floor plan, it doesn't appear that the scale would be off too much. I am curious where the bathroom is, but the small size of the room seems odd to me given the huge size of the office. Perhaps they just wanted the baby near them?

With the parents' room right next door, the kidnapper would have to have been extra diligent to not make a peep or have the baby cry out, and with an open floor plan, and the lights left on, hard to imagine you wouldn't notice the lights were on, unless your bedroom door was closed. MOO

The size of the room doesn't bother me , baby usually gets the smallest room imo. what is of concern to me is the fact it is right next door to parents room, we always sleep with our door left open a few inches because we have small children , youngest 19 months and we do not keep our door closed , so we can hear better etc we would also be woken if lights were on all over the house How come she didn't hear anything?? this intruder took a hell of a risk

belimom
10-07-2011, 12:02 PM
Didn't know if this had been posted:


The mother said detectives told her: "'You did it. You did it. And we have nothing.'"

http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml

chieftess
10-07-2011, 12:02 PM
I remember seeing an interview with a neighbor with a dog but don't remember the context of what she was saying.

If this is the same interview, it is either on Channel 9 or Channel 41, I don't watch Channel 5. Hope that helps you!

Thanks Mojen!
I have been doing searches, and the only thing I could find was a Channel 9 reporter update that a neighbor said her dogs didn't bark..or something to that effect. All the other text is forum chat.
I remember her being interviewed sitting in a chair outside, and the dogs barking at the reporters. I was trying to verify if they said she was a next door neighbor... that's what I remember at the time.
I have been doing a tremendous amount of channel surfing since Monday, so I could not remember what station I saw it on :waitasec:
Still couldn't find any video to back it up

Cazzie
10-07-2011, 12:03 PM
No, they haven't. Or anyway, there's been zero report of that.
Yes they have. The link was posted a couple times upthread (or previous thread).

A family member (great-grandparent to Lisa?) said so on video to MSM last nite...

Hazel posted it first, and a few others re-posted it...

cluciano63
10-07-2011, 12:05 PM
Do we know if Dad always worked nights, in previous jobs? I know it took me years after my husband started working graveyard shift before I could feel comfortable falling asleep, alone in the house, and even now, many years later, my sleep is extremely light and any little sound wakes me up, from the fridge noises to any old creak from the house. Just wondering.

Clock's Tickin
10-07-2011, 12:05 PM
In the first place, you don't know that no one has accused them. From what I read, the cops as much as did so. Are you following the media reports? Did you see the Today show article and vid? In my view, it is fair to say they have been accused. And there's certainly a lot of people here accusing them, directly or indirectly...you could be said to be one of them, in a way.

Secondly, having a lawyer to advise you is never a bad thing, really, especially if you are innocent. Among other things, a lawyer might be able to tell them how far they can push LE, whether they have to accept LE's strategies, and what other kinds of things they can do on their own to help search for the child. A good lawyer can also help smooth communications, by providing a less emotional voice between the various parties.

There are some sleazy lawyers out there, no doubt. But it is very unfair and narrow minded to make blanket assertions that imply someone must be guilty if they hired a lawyer. I had a client once whose child was abducted (case got a lot of publicity, she was released unharmed at a mall the next day). I was one of the first people he called. His family were also 9/11 victims. Sometimes people just need some good help and advice.

Whoa--I never said I thought they were guilty--my typing needs some clarification--and apologies to lawyers on the thread, but I would think that involving a lawyer this early (and I guess that would depend on the lawyer) would hamper progress. Granted, I thankfully have never had a child abducted, but in watching things unfold on these very boards, once the lawyer comes on board things slow down--that part is what I refer to as a bad sign. I have no idea what's going on in this case--so little to go on--the only thing I am sure of is that LE is working as if they believe the parents have more to give in the information department--and a lawyer might impede the information flow--especially if it may paint the parents as less than perfect.

Mirage
10-07-2011, 12:05 PM
When I got home from work yesterday, my dh also told me of the interview with the lady who said her dog went missing that night. He said the woman lived behind them and maybe over a door one way or another. The dog did return home at some point. In my mind, this is highly suspicious and indicates a likelyhood of a stranger passing thru the neighborhood. Often you can just let a dog out of his fence and he will happily run off rather than stay and bark at you. I was never able to locate the interview that he said had played during the day.

GreenTeam
10-07-2011, 12:07 PM
Didn't know if this had been posted:

Quote:
The mother said detectives told her: "'You did it. You did it. And we have nothing.'"

http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/...96530303.shtml


Sounds like typical LE interrogative technique to me. (But that's based on that TV show they had this summer where people hid a suitcase of money and then were interrogated by professional LE.)

LotsaLatte
10-07-2011, 12:08 PM
Is it possible the floor plan left out a room? either a bathroom or a bedroom on the main floor. I ask because if you look at the video (link below) around 5:35 there is an aerial view of the back of the house. I think there are 4 windows and a back door. I am thinking maybe - from right to left - there is Parent's bedroom, tiny bathroom window, Lisa's bedroom window, boy's bedroom window, and computer room door that leads to deck. Of course, the window closest to the door could be in the computer room as well. I'm just throwing this out there.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-parents-upset-police-tough-tactics/story?id=14688581

BeanE
10-07-2011, 12:08 PM
Do we know for sure that little Pumpkin Pie (I love that nickname so much!) was put into a crib, in her own room, and remained there until the abduction?

In other words, do we know there was not another crib - such as in the parents' bedroom or in the computer room? Do we know that mom didn't at any point put Lisa into another crib in another room other than Lisa's own? (I had 2 cribs for my son - one large and one small in 2 different rooms.) Or bring Lisa into bed with her?

Mom checked Lisa at 10:30pm. Did she say what she did after that? Go take a bath? Read a book or watch TV? Go directly to her own bed and to sleep?

I'm just trying to get straight in my head what I'm assuming and what I've actually heard mom say.

mrsu
10-07-2011, 12:09 PM
"The main problem I think that we're facing is that everybody (else) has an alibi," Irwin said. "I was at work. I've been cleared. All these other people we were worried about ... the FBI said they've been cleared. The only one you can't clear is the mother that's at home when it happens `cause there's nobody else there."


http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml

So allegedly the father has been cleared? And by "all these other people", I'm assuming they mean the list of 9-12 people that were given?

waltzingmatilda
10-07-2011, 12:09 PM
Yep! That is why I say if it wasn't the parents (by no means saying it was them, though), it was somebody familiar to them (or neighborhood). Once you have been in a couple of the houses here you could reasonably find your way around any house here.

99% convinced of this.

Thanks for responding In da Middle! I agree with you. I live in a condo unit and all the floor plans are the same except that some are a mirror image of others. It would not be difficult for anyone familiar with the floor plan to navigate thru any of the units here.

BTW, I appreciate you 'painting the picture' of the area for those of us who live so far away.

wm

cluciano63
10-07-2011, 12:09 PM
I wonder if the alleged LE statement to mom "we have nothing" was actually followed by words such as "that indicates a stranger came into the house" or something like that. JMO

~n/t~
10-07-2011, 12:10 PM
I have personally witnessed the baby outside with the family within a couple of days. I just don't remember which day, but it was VERY recently. Like I have said before, this family raises no red flags with their kids! I am still very neutral on if the family is involved or not, but these kids were outside playing very frequently and somebody in the family was out with them everytime that I noticed. They were happy, bubbly kids who by all appearances were very well taken care of.

Do/did they have a dog that you are aware of or noticed playing with the children? TIA

AnonymousD
10-07-2011, 12:10 PM
Some cable and satellite providers don't carry the smaller local affiliates. Better to go national and catch a larger audience. GMA is shown on KC's ABC channel. I think it was a efficient choice.

I didn't realize this station was a small local affiliate?

http://www.kmbc.com/index.html

Also, I live in an area where there is only 1 NBC, 1 CBS, 1 ABC, 1 Fox, & 1 CW affiliate. All cable & satellite providers carry each station.

watchinginky
10-07-2011, 12:10 PM
curious ... could people here think of a list of 9 or 12 suspects in a disappearance of your child?

I'd be hard-pressed to think of one (in fact I can't think of anyone atm) so just wondering if others might want to weigh in on this ...

ITA and it makes me a little hinky of the dad. This is very odd IMO.

Duke Fan4
10-07-2011, 12:11 PM
nursebeeme, thanks for the link. Indeed it was awesome. I like MF and his experience.

momtective
10-07-2011, 12:13 PM
In the first place, you don't know that no one has accused them. From what I read, the cops as much as did so. Are you following the media reports? Did you see the Today show article and vid? In my view, it is fair to say they have been accused. And there's certainly a lot of people here accusing them, directly or indirectly...you could be said to be one of them, in a way.

Secondly, having a lawyer to advise you is never a bad thing, really, especially if you are innocent. Among other things, a lawyer might be able to tell them how far they can push LE, whether they have to accept LE's strategies, and what other kinds of things they can do on their own to help search for the child. A good lawyer can also help smooth communications, by providing a less emotional voice between the various parties.

There are some sleazy lawyers out there, no doubt. But it is very unfair and narrow minded to make blanket assertions that imply someone must be guilty if they hired a lawyer. I had a client once whose child was abducted (case got a lot of publicity, she was released unharmed at a mall the next day). I was one of the first people he called. His family were also 9/11 victims. Sometimes people just need some good help and advice.

I sincerely hope Lisa's family has someone such as yourself in their corner. I believe in their innocence at this point and I can't even begin to imagine the hell they are living right this very minute...the hell they will continue to live every day of their life until their baby is returned to them.

Mojen
10-07-2011, 12:13 PM
Thanks Mojen!
I have been doing searches, and the only thing I could find was a Channel 9 reporter update that a neighbor said her dogs didn't bark..or something to that effect. All the other text is forum chat.
I remember her being interviewed sitting in a chair outside, and the dogs barking at the reporters. I was trying to verify if they said she was a next door neighbor... that's what I remember at the time.
I have been doing a tremendous amount of channel surfing since Monday, so I could not remember what station I saw it on :waitasec:
Still couldn't find any video to back it up

I totally remember her sitting outside and them showing the dog (I only remember one). I, too, remember the next door neighbor thing!

I have been channel surfing big time watching this, but only 9 and 41. I saw it on a day channel 9 still had the 24 hour caption running at the bottom of the screen, so that must mean it was on Tuesday or Wednesday.

mck16
10-07-2011, 12:14 PM
Didn't know if this had been posted:

Does anyone know who the other children are in the picture with the baby Lisa by the door window? tia

~n/t~
10-07-2011, 12:16 PM
http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml

Thanks for the link. So the dozen or more list of possible suspects have all been cleared. Do any of you think LE did find something during the searches? Or perhaps even inside the home? And that's why they suspect the mom?

Just-a-Guy
10-07-2011, 12:16 PM
I do get the "protecting my butt" part of it, and I'm sure they were probably approached (never had to go looking), but my own butt would be backseat to my child---I have a faulty panic button anyway, so I can't imagine what I'd really do in those moments....


I'm curious the thinking behind "were probably approached"? Are you aware that there are ethical rules prohibiting lawyers from soliciting clients in that manner? Possible you are not aware of such rules, as they've only been in place for a couple of decades.

mrsu
10-07-2011, 12:16 PM
Does anyone else remember something very early on where the parents (I think mom) mentioned something to effect that the reason for the delay in contacting the police was because their cellphones were taken?

I feel certain I remember this, because at the time I thought, "we've never heard there was a delay in it being reported." We've heard dad arrived home around 4am and police were contacted shortly after.

I still wonder who called 911. Are the calls typically released? If it was a neighbor, I'm surprised they haven't spoken up by now.

davehead21
10-07-2011, 12:17 PM
When I got home from work yesterday, my dh also told me of the interview with the lady who said her dog went missing that night. He said the woman lived behind them and maybe over a door one way or another. The dog did return home at some point. In my mind, this is highly suspicious and indicates a likelyhood of a stranger passing thru the neighborhood. Often you can just let a dog out of his fence and he will happily run off rather than stay and bark at you. I was never able to locate the interview that he said had played during the day.

THANK YOU!!!! I felt like I was going crazy. :crazy:

Shelby1
10-07-2011, 12:18 PM
Do we know if Dad always worked nights, in previous jobs? I know it took me years after my husband started working graveyard shift before I could feel comfortable falling asleep, alone in the house, and even now, many years later, my sleep is extremely light and any little sound wakes me up, from the fridge noises to any old creak from the house. Just wondering.


It was his first time ever to work at night.

~n/t~
10-07-2011, 12:18 PM
Do we know for sure that little Pumpkin Pie (I love that nickname so much!) was put into a crib, in her own room, and remained there until the abduction?

In other words, do we know there was not another crib - such as in the parents' bedroom or in the computer room? Do we know that mom didn't at any point put Lisa into another crib in another room other than Lisa's own? (I had 2 cribs for my son - one large and one small in 2 different rooms.) Or bring Lisa into bed with her?

Mom checked Lisa at 10:30pm. Did she say what she did after that? Go take a bath? Read a book or watch TV? Go directly to her own bed and to sleep?

I'm just trying to get straight in my head what I'm assuming and what I've actually heard mom say.

She went to bed.

raeann
10-07-2011, 12:18 PM
I didn't realize this station was a small local affiliate?

http://www.kmbc.com/index.html

Also, I live in an area where there is only 1 NBC, 1 CBS, 1 ABC, 1 Fox, & 1 CW affiliate. All cable & satellite providers carry each station.

Yes, it is the KC Metro area local ABC affiliate. I can understand limiting it to the national media as it would be nearly impossible to grant interviews to every single media outlet that wanted one. Every local affiliate has access to replay the interviews done with the national network so there is no real need to repeat those with the local ones. It would work back the other way too....national network could pick up reports from local.....but if you want to make SURE the news goes national, of course you would prioritize their requests. It just makes logical sense in terms of time and effort to do it the way they are.....trying to maximize coverage. The local stations aren't going to drop the story.....they'll just have to run clips instead of using their own reporters directly.

jmo

chasing.halos
10-07-2011, 12:18 PM
BBM.... very interesting to me....


"The main problem I think that we're facing is that everybody (else) has an alibi," Irwin said. "I was at work. I've been cleared. All these other people we were worried about ... the FBI said they've been cleared. The only one you can't clear is the mother that's at home when it happens `cause there's nobody else there."



http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml

Jacie Estes
10-07-2011, 12:19 PM
Does anyone know who the other children are in the picture with the baby Lisa by the door window? tia

Her brothers, they're all adorable children.

liz b.
10-07-2011, 12:19 PM
http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml

Lisa's dad has been cleared ? I didn't know that... And Lisa's mom wasn't alone with the baby.The other two kids were home. MOO

ETA : FBI has stated that all other people they were concerned about have been cleared ? According to dad's statement.... Interesting.MOO

cluciano63
10-07-2011, 12:20 PM
It was his first time ever to work at night.

Wow, if that is the case, I am really surprised she was able to sleep so soundly, JMO.

raeann
10-07-2011, 12:22 PM
It was his first time ever to work at night.

Link please????? It has repeatedly been stated that it was just his first time at a new job LOCATION, not his first night job.

SilkySifaka
10-07-2011, 12:22 PM
I hope today LE comes out and apologizes for saying they're not cooperating. That kind of thing can turn the volunteer force off, and taint the public forever in thinking they're uncooperative. : ( I just cry for them.

That is what blew my mind last night. Whether or not the parents had stopped cooperating, the only result of the presser by Young is to turn off people who might help find little Lisa.

If there weren't posters going up before, can you imagine now? "why bother, she is dead, the parents did it" is the underlying feeling. or "police say parents aren't cooperating , its a waste of time"

People make extra efforts to help but not if LE implies its useless to do so.

chieftess
10-07-2011, 12:23 PM
http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml

So allegedly the father has been cleared? And by "all these other people", I'm assuming they mean the list of 9-12 people that were given?

The thing I find odd, is that the mother should actually have two alibi witnesses...the children?
I understand wanting to protect the two boys, but wouldn't it be easy to verify at least part of mom's story by questioning them?

Shelby1
10-07-2011, 12:23 PM
Thanks for the link. So the dozen or more list of possible suspects have all been cleared. Do any of you think LE did find something during the searches? Or perhaps even inside the home? And that's why they suspect the mom?


Also in the article (I realize it's a small tidbit) the son that was sleeping with mom also had a stray kitten he found earlier that day sleeping with them.

SilkySifaka
10-07-2011, 12:24 PM
http://www.kctv5.com/story/15612837/live-tweets-amber-alert-issued-for-missing-10-month-old-girl

It is called picking up a phone LE.

JeannaT
10-07-2011, 12:24 PM
The thing I find odd, is that the mother should actually have two alibi witnesses...the children?
I understand wanting to protect the two boys, but wouldn't it be easy to verify at least part of mom's story by questioning them?

I agree, but they were asleep too apparently when all this happened. So unlike the dad, who had people around him who were awake, there was no one awake in the home to verify her story.

davehead21
10-07-2011, 12:24 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisa-irwins-parents-stop-cooperating-police-14688735

says that the night Lisa vanished was first night the father had ever worked a night shift
(rest of the information was the same)

Bumping this up.

CHICANA
10-07-2011, 12:25 PM
In the first place, you don't know that no one has accused them. From what I read, the cops as much as did so. Are you following the media reports? Did you see the Today show article and vid? In my view, it is fair to say they have been accused. And there's certainly a lot of people here accusing them, directly or indirectly...you could be said to be one of them, in a way.

Secondly, having a lawyer to advise you is never a bad thing, really, especially if you are innocent. Among other things, a lawyer might be able to tell them how far they can push LE, whether they have to accept LE's strategies, and what other kinds of things they can do on their own to help search for the child. A good lawyer can also help smooth communications, by providing a less emotional voice between the various parties.

There are some sleazy lawyers out there, no doubt. But it is very unfair and narrow minded to make blanket assertions that imply someone must be guilty if they hired a lawyer. I had a client once whose child was abducted (case got a lot of publicity, she was released unharmed at a mall the next day). I was one of the first people he called. His family were also 9/11 victims. Sometimes people just need some good help and advice.

Lets not forget there are other children involved. If you feel you're being accused of neglect or worse, an attorney might be necessary to make sure you retain custody of your other children.

In da Middle
10-07-2011, 12:26 PM
Well, after following countless missing child cases I have this opinion and I know that some people will not agree but I believe that the parents of this tiny baby need to get off the TV sound stages and take themselves into the Police Department and ask the LE what else do you need, I'm here to help you as long as it takes. Irwin needs to take a LDT too. I say, "Stay off the media talk shows" and get back to the people who are trying to find this baby. LE has to be tough, they do not have time to coddle and babysit the parents. We have seen way too many cases where at least one of the parents were involved in some way with the disappearance of the missing child. I'm not really interested that the parents may have had their feelings hurt. To me that doesn't need to take center stage. This baby needs to be found. Period.


I somewhat agree with this, but they are doing national media. What a great tool to get her story out further! I do think they may have just needed a break - I would have. LE may have messed up in stating they are no longer cooperating because now they might just do that when they really didn't plan to.

I just do not think I could have formed a coherent sentence after all they have been through. I sure would not have been there after a while without representation guilty or innocent to guide me through.

chieftess
10-07-2011, 12:26 PM
I totally remember her sitting outside and them showing the dog (I only remember one). I, too, remember the next door neighbor thing!

I have been channel surfing big time watching this, but only 9 and 41. I saw it on a day channel 9 still had the 24 hour caption running at the bottom of the screen, so that must mean it was on Tuesday or Wednesday.

I'm just happy to hear I'm not dreaming or losing my mind, lol!
I seem to remember it being Wednesday, but I'm not certain.

cindysue
10-07-2011, 12:26 PM
I watched the video and i think the mom is innocent. But as far as the floorplan ,if it is correct and the babys room is so close , the mother has to be a sound sleeper. Im just guessing here from experience that if you have a small child that is sick in another room you would probably keep your door open and the babys door open to hear if she gets worse. She is also apparently very trusting to sleep with windows open and doors open, especially when she is home alone for the first time. I would think on this night of all nights she would be more alert than any other night..but thats all assumption on my part ,,however if the neighbors dog was let out so that it didnt bark ,that tells us that they had a well thought out plan for this, also if this person did let out the dog then why didnt the dog attack them.? This could have been someone in the neighborhood or someone who casted the neighborhood . Someone who wasnt afraid to be seen around or in the house as they came in and walked around in the lighted house very very close to the parents bedroom. Also seems that they waited til the husband had his first night of work...This doesnt seem random at all IMO..

liltexans
10-07-2011, 12:26 PM
Also in the article (I realize it's a small tidbit) the son that was sleeping with mom also had a stray kitten he found earlier that day sleeping with them.

Okay, so it was dad's first night at this job.

The family dog may have disappeared that day/night.

Baby Lisa is ill and disappears and one son found and kept a new kitten that day.

Quite a number of changes in family pattern happened in just one day/night.

In da Middle
10-07-2011, 12:28 PM
I understand what you're saying about taking a break from finding your child.. but if you're not eating, not staying hydrated and not getting some sleep, eventually your body and mind are going to give out


Exactly!!

nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 12:28 PM
http://www.kctv5.com/story/15641727/new-kc-police-chief-announced

they are announcing the new chief at 1145 CST

chasing.halos
10-07-2011, 12:28 PM
Okay, so it was dad's first night at this job.

The family dog may have disappeared that day/night.

Baby Lisa is ill and disappears and one son found and kept a new kitten that day.

Quite a number of changes in family pattern happened in just one day/night.

It was not their dog. A neighbor's dog supposedly went missing that night and then came back.

~n/t~
10-07-2011, 12:28 PM
Also in the article (I realize it's a small tidbit) the son that was sleeping with mom also had a stray kitten he found earlier that day sleeping with them.

Yeah I noticed that too but blew it off as being unimportant to the case. Do you think it has relevance? The only thing I can think of is kittens are usually very active at night.....well I should say mine was. :innocent:

Was it confirmed if they had a dog?

nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 12:30 PM
Link please????? It has repeatedly been stated that it was just his first time at a new job LOCATION, not his first night job.
did you see the link that dave posted up stream?

was dad's first night shift

cluciano63
10-07-2011, 12:30 PM
I believe LE has reasons for coming forward as they did last night. I think they have some evidence or info that they are not ready to release. Just my opinion, as I have no reason to believe this LE is unprofessional or narrow-minded. Maybe I will be proven wrong.

Shelby1
10-07-2011, 12:30 PM
Link please????? It has repeatedly been stated that it was just his first time at a new job LOCATION, not his first night job.


originally posted by NurseBeeMe:


http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/miss...olice-14688735 (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisa-irwins-parents-stop-cooperating-police-14688735)

says that the night Lisa vanished was first night the father had ever worked a night shift

Veritas
10-07-2011, 12:31 PM
4am seems like a strange time for a shift end. Don't most swing shifts end at midnight or 2 am? Do we have verification from the employer?

liltexans
10-07-2011, 12:32 PM
4am seems like a strange time for a shift end. Don't most swing shifts end at midnight or 2 am? Do we have verification from the employer?

He got home at 4 am, right? His shift probably ended earlier and then he had to drive home. Do we know how long his commute was?

nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 12:32 PM
I don't think we are going to hear much of anything in the media for a bit due to the new chief being named.. it is live on all three local stations

Shelby1
10-07-2011, 12:32 PM
Yeah I noticed that too but blew it off as being unimportant to the case. Do you think it has relevance? The only thing I can think of is kittens are usually very active at night.....well I should say mine was. :innocent:

Was it confirmed if they had a dog?


Lol, I hope little S. still has his pillow ;)

Mine are very active, too.


I don't know....I wondered where he found the little kitten. My mind always wanders. Like if a stranger said "here, you can have this kitten, but don't tell your mom where you got it" etc. etc.

CKSWarriorQueen
10-07-2011, 12:33 PM
Didn't know if this had been posted:


Also in the article (I realize it's a small tidbit) the son that was sleeping with mom also had a stray kitten he found earlier that day sleeping with them.

AAAAAAnnnnddd--- this is the first time we are hearing mention of sleeping with a stray kitten found that day.

THAT tweaks my hink-meter. Young children should not be sleeping with stray kittens who haven't had their shots, who may have earmites or fleas, who may be infected with toxoplasmosis.

Every time they add a new detail like this-- the stolen cellphones yesterday, the found kitten today--- it doesn't add to their credibility, it diminishes it, because the new details seem calculated to elicit sympathy.

I'd like to hear a new detail that didn't paint as angelic and sympathetic a reaction.

JMHO. I may be crazy, but I don't think I'm wrong. Am I?

SlGriffith
10-07-2011, 12:33 PM
I hope others have visited thehinkymeter.com and read today's story regarding discrepancies. If the truth is the "truth" there should never be discrepancies. And mom can't fill in the gaps in the timeline? Are you kidding me?

The phones are a BIG RED FLAG for me. Why would anyone after a baby stop to take THREE cell phones?? Those phones had something to do with communication between Lisa's mother (if father truly has been cleared) and someone that she doesn't want anyone to know about.

Three people, in addition to baby Lisa, were sleeping in the house and not one heard any disturbance? I don't buy it. You've got a sick baby in another room and you don't have a door open to listen for her or have a monitor in the room.

There is so much hinky here that it is starting to smell.

elepher50
10-07-2011, 12:33 PM
http://www.kctv5.com/story/15641727/new-kc-police-chief-announced

they are announcing the new chief at 1145 CST

Oh my gawd, I have been SO waiting for this to happen... bring it now.

Coldpizza
10-07-2011, 12:33 PM
I just caught a recap on ABC that said the "mother" as in "pumpkin pies" grandmother had left the front door open??????

Does everyone know that and I just missed it?

luvbeaches
10-07-2011, 12:34 PM
I'd probably be pretty darn frustrated if I knew that my husband and I were innocent, and were both being grilled for 11 hours by 2, possibly 3 officers. That's 33 actual man hours wasted not following up on other potential leads.

I don't consider it wasted time. They grilled them for 11 hours for a reason. We don't know what that reason is, but some of the things that we've heard about sound hinky to me. I don't think for one moment they haven't been following up on other leads. If there are any. They are stuck on the parents for a reason. Not sure what it is, but they are.

raeann
10-07-2011, 12:34 PM
Just read this article.....would be a great group to get to stay around for a few days after training to help search the area for any sign of this child. This national search dog training session is being held only about a 3 hour drive away from the KCMO area.

http://www.kansas.com/2011/10/07/2052084/learn-to-sniff-out-missing-people.html

liltexans
10-07-2011, 12:35 PM
Yeah I noticed that too but blew it off as being unimportant to the case. Do you think it has relevance? The only thing I can think of is kittens are usually very active at night.....well I should say mine was. :innocent:

Was it confirmed if they had a dog?

I agree. More power to mom if she could sleep soundly with a child and a new kitten in her bed, plus a sick baby in the room next door. Although exhaustion can make a person sleep like a rock.

I know if I let my kitten sleep with me, I would be up all night.

nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 12:35 PM
4am seems like a strange time for a shift end. Don't most swing shifts end at midnight or 2 am? Do we have verification from the employer?

who really knows...:waitasec:

I have worked (as a nurse) the 3p-3a ER shift before...

and there is, iirc, no employer verification in the media and I do not believe that LE has addressed it... they won't confirm most of the parents' statements they have made to the media..

as they have said repeatedly 'everything is on the table'

:twocents:

elepher50
10-07-2011, 12:35 PM
AAAAAAnnnnddd--- this is the first time we are hearing mention of sleeping with a stray kitten found that day.

THAT tweaks my hink-meter. Young children should not be sleeping with stray kittens who haven't had their shots, who may have earmites or fleas, who may be infected with toxoplasmosis.

Every time they add a new detail like this-- the stolen cellphones yesterday, the found kitten today--- it doesn't add to their credibility, it diminishes it, because the new details seem calculated to elicit sympathy.

I'd like to hear a new detail that didn't paint as angelic and sympathetic a reaction.

JMHO. I may be crazy, but I don't think I'm wrong. Am I?

You are not wrong friend. The family thus far have not been helping themselves by releasing these tidbits of information.

In da Middle
10-07-2011, 12:36 PM
But why not utilize all sources ?


Normally I would agree, but after having a shadow of living it because of my proximity to them, my opinion of the local media is that they are being very rude and obnoxious. Yes, they are doing a fabulous job of getting her story out, but a lot of the individual reporters are, well, I better not say.

How totally rude to go and knock on the doors of family and be politely denied access and keep insisting on doing it. They are making our roads nearly impassable and just wander out and about the roads like they belong in the middle of the road and we are supposed to go way around out of our way to get in and out of here. I could go on, but I won't.

almino
10-07-2011, 12:36 PM
The mother does seem obviously distressed. But "what if" something happened within the home to baby Lisa (ie given too much medication for a cough, shaking to stop crying), couldn't the mother's grief be over that? It would help explain, why the cell phones were mentioned later and why the cells phones had to disappear. Perhaps messages, calls between the parents had to be eliminated from view.

When the mom says she couldn't remember and fill in the gaps when LE questioning . . . was she being questioned about texts/calls and the timing, or about dosage of medication given to Lisa and what time.

Just open to the possibility that some kind of accident happened in the home.

SurfieTX
10-07-2011, 12:36 PM
He got home at 4 am, right? His shift probably ended earlier and then he had to drive home. Do we know how long his commute was?

Could be that he worked 7 p.m. to 3 a.m. Drive home. Get home at 3:30. Look for 1/2 hour and call police at 4:00 a.m.

cluciano63
10-07-2011, 12:37 PM
4am seems like a strange time for a shift end. Don't most swing shifts end at midnight or 2 am? Do we have verification from the employer?

My husband works 7pm-3:30AM at post office, and gets home at 4am, for example. But as I said, I am having trouble imagining her being comfortable enough to fall into such a deep sleep if she was not used to him being gone those hours; I'm still not after almost 20 years.

elepher50
10-07-2011, 12:37 PM
I just caught a recap on ABC that said the "mother" as in "pumpkin pies" grandmother had left the front door open??????

Does everyone know that and I just missed it?

Was it maternal or paternal grandfather that had all those pictures of Lisa on his FB account?

waltzingmatilda
10-07-2011, 12:39 PM
In da Middle, Do you know if the 'computer room' may have been a 'single car garage' at one time? I ask because friends made a conversion like this to their home. (which appears very similar to the Irwin home) They always left the window open in that room as there was no HVAC vents into the room. Just curious.

TIA

wm

luckyme
10-07-2011, 12:39 PM
Oh my gawd, I have been SO waiting for this to happen... bring it now.

wow they moved the time up?:waitasec:

liz b.
10-07-2011, 12:39 PM
It's what is not reported that's interesting. MOO

Had dad already left for work at 7:30 when Lisa was put into her crib ?

What time did the two boys go to bed ? Did they get up at any time ? Were both boys sleeping in their parents' room ?

What unmatched prints,if any, where found on the window frame, door knobs, light switches ?

In da Middle
10-07-2011, 12:39 PM
Has anyone posted a map showing the location of the RSOs in baby Lisa's neighborhood or zip code? That's one place to start looking.


Don't use familywatchdog! They have a LOT of mismapped offenders here. Crimereports.com seems to be fairly accurate and it also gives a 'picture' of the crime around (very little). 64117 is the zip.

luvbeaches
10-07-2011, 12:40 PM
I hope others have visited thehinkymeter.com and read today's story regarding discrepancies. If the truth is the "truth" there should never be discrepancies. And mom can't fill in the gaps in the timeline? Are you kidding me?

The phones are a BIG RED FLAG for me. Why would anyone after a baby stop to take THREE cell phones?? Those phones had something to do with communication between Lisa's mother (if father truly has been cleared) and someone that she doesn't want anyone to know about.

Three people, in addition to baby Lisa, were sleeping in the house and not one heard any disturbance? I don't buy it. You've got a sick baby in another room and you don't have a door open to listen for her or have a monitor in the room.

There is so much hinky here that it is starting to smell.

There should be no discrepancies. Sometimes you remember more details about something, but the basics don't change.

The cell phone thing is crazy. The lights are questionable. The front door open - how convenient. The first thing that caught my eye was the clothing description. It could be nothing, or it could be something. It said the baby was wearing shorts and a top (yes, I know this could be short jammies, etc, or she could have been put to bed in her clothes). I just thought that was odd. The baby was sick and she was in clothes? I am not judging the mother's parenting skills, but rather the first thing I thought was the baby was never in bed. The description was what she was wearing that evening.

I could be wrong but that's just something crossed my mind. I hope they find the baby and I hope that parents had nothing to do with her disappearance or know who was involved. The first person that is looked at as a suspect is the last person to see the baby. That's the mom. I wonder if the older boys were able to tell the investigators anything, if they were interviewed?

chasing.halos
10-07-2011, 12:41 PM
Regarding the stray kitten, could it have been that mom, baby and other kiddos knocked on some neighbors doors to ask if the kitty belonged to them, perhaps introducing themselves, chatting a little with them?

I know I am grasping at straws here but I have a very strong gut feeling that she is close. (MOO)

cindysue
10-07-2011, 12:41 PM
Well the way i look at it is ...if the parents are guilty ..why then release the neighbors dog..unless that was a completely unrelated event.

justbeachy
10-07-2011, 12:42 PM
All I know is that I'd better get a "nanny cam" or something for my house in case God Forbid (!) anything ever happens here. I'm a SAHM and I rarely have anyone other than my children who could confirm an alibi. If I just record my house/bedrooms 24/7 and then have it overwrite every day, I'll always have proof!

Just kidding!! (sort of!...it's scary to think that sleeping alone could be considered a "gap" in a timeline...)

Hazel
10-07-2011, 12:42 PM
My husband works 7pm-3:30AM at post office, and gets home at 4am, for example. But as I said, I am having trouble imagining her being comfortable enough to fall into such a deep sleep if she was not used to him being gone those hours; I'm still not after almost 20 years.
I had been thinking the same. If it was his first day(night) at work, I would have checked all windows and doors twice, to make sure they were closed/locked.

Not sure if they think the 'abductor' opened the computer room window in order to hand the baby to an accomplice waiting outside, and then left by the front door. The big question is how could the front door have been left unlocked?

Do we know the exact time the father left for work? And did he take a cellphone with him? That would make four cellphones.

mrsu
10-07-2011, 12:43 PM
Was it maternal or paternal grandfather that had all those pictures of Lisa on his FB account?

That was Debbie's dad

lcookster
10-07-2011, 12:44 PM
Wow- some folks think the parents are releasing these tid bits? We all are looking for new information and sometimes tidbits will do. The cell phone information was told to the cops the first night, not 'new information' released later. A relative of a relative tells a friend and so then the stories start to come down the pike. I don't think they are contrived to elicit sympathy. I would think any caring parent would be in a total state of shock- and the mother has a sick baby and two other little kids and the husband works and I am sure she was exhausted and continues to be. It's very hard to say what I would think or do in a similar situation. I am going to continue to look at the parents as victims of a crime and wait to see if any evidence arises that makes them POI. I like sleuthing but.....

cluciano63
10-07-2011, 12:44 PM
I would have been awake all night to make sure no one rolled over on the new kitten, lol...only half-joking...

justbeachy
10-07-2011, 12:45 PM
There should be no discrepancies. Sometimes you remember more details about something, but the basics don't change.

The cell phone thing is crazy. The lights are questionable. The front door open - how convenient. The first thing that caught my eye was the clothing description. It could be nothing, or it could be something. It said the baby was wearing shorts and a top (yes, I know this could be short jammies, etc, or she could have been put to bed in her clothes). I just thought that was odd. The baby was sick and she was in clothes? I am not judging the mother's parenting skills, but rather the first thing I thought was the baby was never in bed. The description was what she was wearing that evening.

I could be wrong but that's just something crossed my mind. I hope they find the baby and I hope that parents had nothing to do with her disappearance or know who was involved. The first person that is looked at as a suspect is the last person to see the baby. That's the mom. I wonder if the older boys were able to tell the investigators anything, if they were interviewed?


BBM

Convenient. That's the word that keeps popping in my head regarding this case. It was apparently the "perfect storm" of convenient occurrences. I don't like that. Not one bit.

mamacita
10-07-2011, 12:45 PM
OK i'm trying my hardest to get caught up with this thread... but it seems by the time i'm done with 1 page, 3 more have been added! ughhhhh

anyway, i wanted to post a few things that i have in my head before i forget them (as i'm still reading).

1. i was told that the man & baby sighting was believed to be "debunked". do we know if this is still a potential lead? i've seen it posted after i was told it was debunked.

2. do we know what time JI went to work? (just wondering how long mom was alone with the kids)

3. do we know where this job was?

4. have the roads and surrounding areas on the way to that work location been searched?

5. im curious about the phone situation in that if this was JI's first night on the job, i would think he'd want to have a cell phone on him in case the family needed to get a hold of him.

6. why would a perp go into a home where lights were still on? how would he/she know for a fact that no one was awake?


i want to believe these parents are innocent just as much as the next person. i just have these few questions.

back to reading :)

JeannaT
10-07-2011, 12:45 PM
BBM

Convenient. That's the word that keeps popping in my head regarding this case. It was apparently the "perfect storm" of convenient occurrences. I don't like that. Not one bit.

Think of Jessica Lunsford when you start to think this can't happen. It can. And does.

Shelby1
10-07-2011, 12:46 PM
Re-posting timeline

Monday October 3, 2011

Abducted by intruder through bedroom window. Far right window of house.

UPDATE—according to police spokesman window may not be correct.

3620 block of North Lister 64117

CORRECTION TO ABOVE GIVEN BY JEREMY IN PHONE INTERVIEW 10-6-2011

Lisa in bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie in bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room. Point of entry by abductor was unlocked front door, window mentioned earlier was NOT tampered with.

UPDATE 10-6-11 3 cell phones also taken. One does not even work. Also, dad came home to find front door unlocked, most of the lights on and front window open.

Jeremy Irwin, Lisa’s father, told local media that whoever took his daughter also took all three of their cell phones so they couldn’t call anybody, including 911.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG)


~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)

__________________________________________________ ___________________





Other two sons asleep in different bedrooms. (sons are half brothers to Lisa-the 6 year old is Debbie’s and the 8 year old is Jeremy’s from previous relationships.)—Correction. One son—the 6 year old was asleep with the mom and a stray kitten he had found earlier in the day.

Father is electrician that works nights. This night was the first night he EVER worked at night.—Jeremy http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/miss...olice-14688735 (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisa-irwins-parents-stop-cooperating-police-14688735)

Mother is a SAHM--Debbie

Monday October 3, 2011 10:00 p.m. Last seen in crib wearing purple shorts and purple shirt with white kittens on it.

**Possibly seen by Mr. Parscale (a man that lives in the area) according to his wife Lisa around 12:00 a.m. Tuesday wearing only a diaper being carried by a male. Quote from Lisa--“He seen the guy act like he was going to go into a residence,” Parscale said, “but then my husband drove off so we’re thinking that maybe he was just doing that so that my husband would leave.”

**Parscale says her husband saw the man walking on a street perpendicular to North Lister, where Lisa Irwin lives with her parents and brothers.


Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib.

UPDATE at 2:00 p.m. October 4 presser Capt. Steve Young speaking—Parents’ story has no holes. Looking into neighbor that possibly saw Lisa being carried by the male. No suspects other than neighbor sighting.

Tuesday October 4, 2011 approx. 7:00 p.m. amber alert cancelled. Lisa is considered a MISSING/ENDANGERED JUVENILE. Per police the alert has served it’s purpose. Police and dogs will search for a while into the night.

*** Tuesday night authorities searched a van and car at the home. There is no word on what police found or were looking for. Officers searching for the child focused on areas near the family's home such as railroad tracks near the north side of the Missouri River and a wooded area behind the home. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-authorities-continue-search-for-missing-baby-20111005,0,6273053.story

Tuesday 9:25 p.m.

Mass exodus of police from the command center. Looks like K-9's are finished searching for the night. Police search will continue in AM
by cliffjudy via twitter (http://twitter.com/CliffJudy/status/121410556468015104) 9:25 P

**family stayed with relatives after being questioned until 10:30 p.m.

Wednesday October 5, 2011

9:00 a.m. press conference Capt. Steve Young speaking—basically no new information. Still searching with dogs, however there have been no hits. Parents not ruled out, but also not suspects. Very cooperative.


** KMBC's Jana Corrie: Children who were also inside the home at the time of the disappearance staying with neighbors

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv)

**conflicting reports…unless the Grandparents are being referred to as “neighbors”


NBC Action News reporter Sloane Heller reports Lisa’s grandparents are watching the couple’s other children and have not been able to reach them since earlier Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz (http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz)


Next news conference sometime this afternoon.

2:00 news conference—Jeremy spoke with Deborah (Bradley?) by his side. Begged for baby to be dropped off somewhere safe. The brothers are waiting to see their sister. Declined to take questions.

Again, Capt. Has no leads, not ruling out anything. 300 knocks and searches. 46 tips. No ransom note. Family is free to go where they would like. Family does not want to be at house.

**Alleged sighting of Lisa with a middle aged white male and female at a Love’s gas station in St. Joseph, MO I-29 and US HWY 169. Driving older model SUV. Article came out around 5:15 p.m. Surveillance video has been turned over to LE. Police say it doesn’t seem to be a major lead.


Thursday October 6, 2011


**Jeremy and Debbie provided LE with a list of 9 names of people that could be possible suspects.

**Per Debbie regarding cell phones and possible other missing items:

~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)




http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old

** police detectives are meeting early this morning to talk about where to search next.

**per Debbie, “Lisa is very sweet and will go to almost anybody.”

**per Jeremy, window was not tampered with, so perp (s) must have come in through unlocked front door.

**Lisa went to bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie went to bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room.

***Debbie and Jeremy have a heated discussion with LE before speeding off in police car to command center to find out about possible new lead. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lisa-irwin-parents-have-heated-discussion-with-police-20111006,0,5671503.story

**the list of suspects provided by the parents is now up to 12.

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4 (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4)


Originally Posted by BeanE file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Melissa/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif--thank you BeanE
Capt. Young: "There is no doubt they informed us that they no longer wish to cooperate with the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:05 PM

Capt. Young: "We have no plans to close the command center yet, but it will close at some point."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:04 PM

Capt. Young: "I don't have to illustrate how their lack of cooperation hurts the investigation."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "I cannot get into the details of the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspect. If we had enough to charge anyone with, we'd probably be pursuing charges."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspects. From an investigative standpoint we've enjoyed their cooperation"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young": The parents have intimate information as to what's been going on...our door is open and it doesn't help that they are no longer cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "They've always been free and cooperative up until this point, but they've decided to stop cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM

Capt. Steve Young: Mother and father of baby Lisa Irwin have stopped cooperating with police
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM


http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1a39rwETg (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a39rwETg)


"This evening we will be shutting down the command post. We believe we have done all we can regarding geographic searches and will continue tracking leads as we get them or develop additional information," police Officer Darin Snapp said in a news release.

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG)


Family statement: We saw the press conference at 7 PM, and we want you to know we have never stopped cooperating with police.
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 9:11 PM

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3m5ocP3 (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3m5ocP3)


Friday October 7, 2011

(thank you BeanE for gathering these)
#LisaIrwin's mom:We want to thank everybody who has helped us so far.
1 minute ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: we are not angry, we just want our daughter home, that's all we care about.
2 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: we appreciate everything the police dept. has done, we appreciate everything everybody has done.
2 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin mom: we don't know, which is why we need everybody to continue to look for her...because we want her home, we can't do this alone
21 seconds ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: "he's a good father and he's good to me and he loves her and everybody loves her, but no, there's no way." (about father)
38 seconds ago

#LisaIrwin's dad: hasn't taken polygraph but "if that's what it takes..."
3 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: "what do you say when someone tells you that and you know you didn't do anything."
4 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: volunteered to take polygraph, told failed. Says that's not possible.
4 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: We don't care what anybody thinks, we don't care what they think, our concern is to find Lisa, our Lisa.
5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

#LisaIrwin's Mom: don't have hard feelings, not mad, this is what they (police) have to do.
5 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's Mom: police really nice yesterday, not like that the first time.
6 minutes ago


**Debbie failed LDT. Jeremy has offered, but LE said it’s not necessary.


Floor plan of Debbie and Jeremy’s home (thank you Carriebean)


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19070&d=1317999122
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Melissa/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image003.jpg



**a neighbor in the area also had her dog come up missing the same night. (maybe related, maybe not)

http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml
**FBI cleared all the people that Jeremy and Debbie mentioned as possible suspects.

mrye4709
10-07-2011, 12:46 PM
That is what blew my mind last night. Whether or not the parents had stopped cooperating, the only result of the presser by Young is to turn off people who might help find little Lisa.

If there weren't posters going up before, can you imagine now? "why bother, she is dead, the parents did it" is the underlying feeling. or "police say parents aren't cooperating , its a waste of time"

People make extra efforts to help but not if LE implies its useless to do so.

That's what I was worried about. In my opinion the parents don't need to be saying they don't care what people think, it is very important what people think. I do understand why they said it, so many are convinced they did do something. I hope people are still watching for this baby..

Duke Fan4
10-07-2011, 12:47 PM
FOX NEWS CHANNEL NEWS ALERT TOP OF THE HOUR

Piece of evidence causing focus on parents

oh_gal
10-07-2011, 12:48 PM
If it was proved that he was at work and has a solid alibi, they may not think it's necessary for him to take a polygraph.
I don't doubt the mom's story of them telling her she failed. That's a scare tactic, sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. LDT's are not admissible in court anyway, they are merely an investigative tool. And no one can be forced to take a LDT, it is entirely voluntary. Plus as someone else mentioned, it can be inconclusive and still not mean they failed.
IMO, putting a distraught parent through hours and hours of interrogation is not always to their advantage. It will often cause the parents to clam up and stop cooperating and they are less likely to open up and admit anything if they are guilty. And if they're innocent, it just puts a bad light on LE and makes them look like bullies.

I know next to nothing about polygraphs, so I'll apologize in advance if this sounds stupid. OK...they decide not to give dad a polygraph because he can account for his whereabouts, but wouldn't they also want to ask him if he had any knowledge of what could have happened to the baby, or any knowledge of anyone else who might have reason to do this?

I get that having him have an alibi accounts for his whereabouts...but that only seems like part of what they could have asked him in a polygraph.

justbeachy
10-07-2011, 12:48 PM
Think of Jessica Lunsford when you start to think this can't happen. It can. And does.

Never said it couldn't happen. Those words have never been spoken (or typed) by me.

Lavanda Dolce
10-07-2011, 12:48 PM
It would be interesting to find out which of their friends (personal) have NOT called them since the baby has been abducted. That may be a clue as to who they know that is not acting "in the norm" or who may have taken the baby. If the baby was in fact abducted, I am pretty sure it will come out that she was taken by someone that knew the family in some capacity.

Renea
10-07-2011, 12:48 PM
Breaking news coming up on Fox

Cortne
10-07-2011, 12:49 PM
Bumping this up.

Thank you for the link. Until there is more info I am taking all my judgments back of the parents. Not sure if the mother is crying over the kidnapping or an accident. That video is def heart breaking. jmo

saba
10-07-2011, 12:49 PM
FOX NEWS CHANNEL NEWS ALERT TOP OF THE HOUR

Piece of evidence causing focus on parents

link?

Duke Fan4
10-07-2011, 12:50 PM
TOP OF THE HOUR!!! FOX NEWS CHANNEL ON CABLE no link

Lavanda Dolce
10-07-2011, 12:50 PM
I know next to nothing about polygraphs, so I'll apologize in advance if this sounds stupid. OK...they decide not to give dad a polygraph because he can account for his whereabouts, but wouldn't they also want to ask him if he had any knowledge of what could have happened to the baby, or any knowledge of anyone else who might have reason to do this?

I get that having him have an alibi accounts for his whereabouts...but that only seems like part of what they could have asked him in a polygraph.

My thoughts are the same. Why was the dad not polygraphed? Doesn't make sense. Hypothetical...but what if something happened to baby BEFORE he went to work and they panicked and dad buried baby or something. So just because his whereabouts are accounted for does not disqualify him from being a person of interest. NOT saying he is hiding anything or that baby is not alive...just merely pointing out why I believe he should have been polygraphed too.

luvbeaches
10-07-2011, 12:52 PM
I believe LE has reasons for coming forward as they did last night. I think they have some evidence or info that they are not ready to release. Just my opinion, as I have no reason to believe this LE is unprofessional or narrow-minded. Maybe I will be proven wrong.

I am with you on this. They know something. I could also be wrong, but I don't think so.

PoppyH
10-07-2011, 12:53 PM
FOX NEWS CHANNEL NEWS ALERT TOP OF THE HOUR

Piece of evidence causing focus on parents

So they have evidence??

cluciano63
10-07-2011, 12:53 PM
Oh come on, give the news, if it is important...don't wait for the top of the hour, good grief...

JeannaT
10-07-2011, 12:53 PM
It'll be interesting to see what Fox has to say, although when they have true "breaking news" they break in with it. When they have some sort of nothing tidbit to say, they tease with it and make you stay tuned.

SlGriffith
10-07-2011, 12:54 PM
Why does mom state "I did not do this."? What is "this"?

justbeachy
10-07-2011, 12:54 PM
TOP OF THE HOUR!!! FOX NEWS CHANNEL ON CABLE no link

But, but...that's like 7 minutes from now!!! I need info now!! (clearly I have an issue with patience...)

Thanks for the heads-up. :)

alwayslooking
10-07-2011, 12:54 PM
I'm curious the thinking behind "were probably approached"? Are you aware that there are ethical rules prohibiting lawyers from soliciting clients in that manner? Possible you are not aware of such rules, as they've only been in place for a couple of decades.

Is this for every state, because if I even get a speeding ticket in my state, I will have letters within a couple of days, to hire a lawyer to get me out of it!!!

JeannaT
10-07-2011, 12:54 PM
Why does mom state "I did not do this."? What is "this"?

Cause Lisa to disappear.

almino
10-07-2011, 12:55 PM
Well the way i look at it is ...if the parents are guilty ..why then release the neighbors dog..unless that was a completely unrelated event.

Well, if they were doing something back in that area of the grounds/woods with Lisa or cell phones, they would release the dog so the dog wasn't penned up barking at them.

oh_gal
10-07-2011, 12:55 PM
Why does mom state "I did not do this."? What is "this"?

Where did that come from?

luvbeaches
10-07-2011, 12:56 PM
My thoughts are the same. Why was the dad not polygraphed? Doesn't make sense. Hypothetical...but what if something happened to baby BEFORE he went to work and they panicked and dad buried baby or something. So just because his whereabouts are accounted for does not disqualify him from being a person of interest. NOT saying he is hiding anything or that baby is not alive...just merely pointing out why I believe he should have been polygraphed too.

I am wondering if the children were able to give them some information that baby was indeed in the home and LE was able to confirm that the dad was indeed at work and could be accounted for. I have a feeling during the interview with the mother is where all the inconsistencies occurred, which is why they aren't interested in the dad. Imagine being in that position and you were told that they only wanted a poly from you, and not your husband. That alone may make her break down and tell them what they want to know. They are targeting her for some reason. Maybe it's that she just knows something that she hasn't divulged, but may not be actually involved other than a witness.

cluciano63
10-07-2011, 12:56 PM
If Le does have evidence...I bet they are dying to release that fact, as the parents seem to be spending their time on making LE look bad, IMO...

momtective
10-07-2011, 12:56 PM
link?

Might be here
National http://live.foxnews.com/

Local KCM http://www.fox4kc.com/news/livestreaming/

Duke Fan4
10-07-2011, 12:56 PM
Shoot me if the news is worthless because I can't stand much more.

cluciano63
10-07-2011, 12:57 PM
Seeing how it is Fox...my hopes are not sky-high...JMO

~n/t~
10-07-2011, 12:57 PM
FOX NEWS CHANNEL NEWS ALERT TOP OF THE HOUR

Piece of evidence causing focus on parents

Interesting. I suspected that was the reason LE were focused on mom. Can't wait to hear what the evidence is.

JeannaT
10-07-2011, 12:57 PM
If Le does have evidence...I bet they are dying to release that fact, as the parents seem to be spending their time on making LE look bad, IMO...

The family is making LE look bad? I don't see it that way at ALL. LE is making the family look bad, by publicly stating they aren't cooperating, and the family has been gracious and thankful and said they aren't not cooperating, and they are grateful for all LE has done to help.

LE looks bad because of what they've done, IMHO, not what the family has done.

maza
10-07-2011, 12:57 PM
Statistically speaking....

"Parents were responsible for 61% of children murders under the age of five"

SuziQ
10-07-2011, 12:58 PM
When she was sleeping, would be a huge gap.

I'm so far behind this thread today, so forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn.

IMO, LE probably feels that if mom is responsible there wasn't any sleeping going on and they want to know what she was doing during that time. Also I think the difference between the opinion LE and the family has regarding what constitutes cooperation boils down to:

LE wants a confession from parents + Parents refuse to confess = Parents are not cooperating according to LE.

I feel really uncomfortable feeling this way about LE. I usually support them and suspect the parents. This case has me upside down and turned around.

In da Middle
10-07-2011, 12:58 PM
The floorplan is in the next video titled Cops: Missing tot parents not cooperating.
Well I was wrong about the floor plan. This may have been one of the very few custom homes here. This one can not be totally accurate, though. It shows not bathroom for one and no stairs to to garage level. I was only in it once about 10 years ago when it was in foreclosure and only stepped in the front door. The people I was with that were looking at it were immediately not interested as it needed a lot of work at the time. We were just kinda floored as to how much damage one group of people could do to a house they lost.

SlGriffith
10-07-2011, 12:58 PM
Foxnews.com. Mom went from saying "I don't know who took my baby" and "I don't know where my baby is" to "I did not do this". May mean nothing or it may mean she's slipping and about to break.

~n/t~
10-07-2011, 12:59 PM
Seeing how it is Fox...my hopes are not sky-high...JMO

Thanks for the warning. I've done enough head banging already. I won't raise my hopes high.

TobyWong*
10-07-2011, 01:00 PM
Ok pls dont make me turn the news on in this house for nothing
On 2nd thought i'm just gonna wait for u all to fill us in. Yea real beaking news would've already been out. not wait til the top of the hour.

CatFancier
10-07-2011, 01:00 PM
Foxnews.com. Mom went from saying "I don't know who took my baby" and "I don't know where my baby is" to "I did not do this". May mean nothing or it may mean she's slipping and about to break.

Or it may mean she's been asked a zillion times.

Kimbreeley
10-07-2011, 01:00 PM
Fox - mom failed lie detector miserably

nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 01:00 PM
http://www.kmbc.com/news/29418441/detail.html

daryll forte is new police chief (congrats Mr. Forte)

Cortne
10-07-2011, 01:00 PM
Oh my my :(

justbeachy
10-07-2011, 01:01 PM
"Failed miserably" ?????

Jetaime
10-07-2011, 01:01 PM
Where did that come from?

http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml

""They said I failed (a polygraph test)," Bradley, 25, told the Associated Press. "And I continued to say that's not possible because I don't know where she's at and I did not do this.""

davehead21
10-07-2011, 01:01 PM
Is this for every state, because if I even get a speeding ticket in my state, I will have letters within a couple of days, to hire a lawyer to get me out of it!!!

I was wondering about this too. I got my very first speeding ticket in May, on a Sunday evening. I got a letter in the mail the following Wednesday from an attorney who practices in the city where I got the ticket.

cluciano63
10-07-2011, 01:01 PM
Good grief...it is about the LD test?
LE says mom failed miserably and was sweating when FBI told her this...

More "bombshells"...LE investigating whether or not a call was made by mom on one of the three phones that were "missing"...

Kimbreeley
10-07-2011, 01:01 PM
Fox - LE Think mom made phone call at 2:30 am on one of the missing phones.

Coldpizza
10-07-2011, 01:02 PM
Was it maternal or paternal grandfather that had all those pictures of Lisa on his FB account?

I don't know, haven't seen the FB account

wfgodot
10-07-2011, 01:02 PM
Polygraphs say whatever the authorities want them to say.

swanniee11
10-07-2011, 01:02 PM
sounds like the breaking news is that parents weren't cooperating and mom failed LD. Dahhhh!

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/livestreaming/

PoppyH
10-07-2011, 01:02 PM
Fox - mom failed lie detector miserably

Well thats not good news

chasing.halos
10-07-2011, 01:02 PM
:pullhair: :pullhair: :pullhair: :pullhair:

cluciano63
10-07-2011, 01:03 PM
That seems to be it...some controversy about a possible call made on one of the missing phones by mom...and the "failed miserably" quote from LE...

I would think LE would know for sure if a call was made, and do know...

mrsu
10-07-2011, 01:03 PM
Once dad heard mom failed miserably, he wanted to stop cooperating.

O.M.G.

momtective
10-07-2011, 01:03 PM
Family aunt denies that the family has hired an attorney.

luckyme
10-07-2011, 01:03 PM
Fox - LE Think mom made phone call at 2:30 am on one of the missing phones.

Not good!!!!

Shelby1
10-07-2011, 01:03 PM
WHOA!

**Call made from Irwin home at 2:30 a.m.



**Debbie failed LDT "miserably"

Duke Fan4
10-07-2011, 01:03 PM
AND they call that evidence.

cluciano63
10-07-2011, 01:04 PM
i.e. if a call was made at 2:30AM then the story thus far does not work...assuming it was made by mom and from the home. Probably hard to tell, unless it was made to someone else in the family, for example...

nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 01:04 PM
Fox - LE Think mom made phone call at 2:30 am on one of the missing phones.

now THAT is news

mrsu
10-07-2011, 01:04 PM
Dad's story checked out 100%. No need for lie detector test.

Coldpizza
10-07-2011, 01:04 PM
2 30 am mom makes a call? on FOX now

LOL im such a slooooo typer

Kimbreeley
10-07-2011, 01:04 PM
If mom was asleep, HOW did she make a call at 2:30??????????????? OMG....

PoppyH
10-07-2011, 01:05 PM
WHOA!

**Call made from Irwin home at 2:30 a.m.



**Debbie failed LDT "miserably"

ohhhhhhhh hellllllllllllll'''''''''''o

MyTinkieGirl
10-07-2011, 01:05 PM
This could have been said many times before, I swear I've been trying to keep up...but, WHY, since the beginning of this, have I felt it's a "Melinda Duckett" with some "Misty Croslin" sprinkled in for good measure???
The whole thing....kids "sleeping with the mom"..."enter thru window"...."lights left on and door left opened".....the cell phone thing, how did the intruder KNOW they didn't have a "land line"...or another cell in the mom's room??? Why not have ALL the kids in the room with mom??? Although, that's just what I would do.
I hope I'm sooo wrong about baby Lisa and the bad vibes I'm gettin from her mom.
There's far too many children being killed and abused by the ones they should be able to love and trust with all their hearts. I know it makes ALL of us here just sick....ends up seeming like WE care more for these angels than their parents.
Again, all IMO...AND, I pray that Lisa is found safe, and that I'm wrong with my suspicions about the mom.

justbeachy
10-07-2011, 01:05 PM
Anyone could have made a call at 2:30. The follow up investigation on that should yield a lot of clues, I would think.

Duke Fan4
10-07-2011, 01:05 PM
Mom tried to call dad maybe?

davehead21
10-07-2011, 01:05 PM
KCTV News at Noon reports that they spoke with Baby Lisa's aunt and she said the reason that the parents are not speaking to the local media is because they're making them look bad.

Didn't the mother just say this morning that she didn't care what people thought of her? Haha-- I can't help but laugh. I feel like I am witnessing an argument between groups of high school kids. Have they forgotten that there is a missing 10 month old child??

oh_gal
10-07-2011, 01:05 PM
Why do people continually think they can beat the system and get away with things?

Jacie Estes
10-07-2011, 01:06 PM
Polygraphs say whatever the authorities want them to say.

It was my opinion that highly emotional people don't 'test' correctly on LDTs.

~n/t~
10-07-2011, 01:06 PM
Fox - LE Think mom made phone call at 2:30 am on one of the missing phones.

That is huge, if true but how can they prove it was mom? Maybe it was the perp? Who did mom make the call to? They can track it.

Yikes! Not good.

mrsu
10-07-2011, 01:06 PM
Hmmm....possible call from the cell phone at 2:30am???? Then we have mom "re-programming" the phones? Hmmmmmm......

Or kidnapper used the phone to call.....

Peliman
10-07-2011, 01:06 PM
Fox reporting when mother was told she failed the polygraph she didn't want the husband to take a poly because he ahd been cleared 100%...that's when they both stopped cooperating. Seems like a conflict between LE and the parents.

nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 01:06 PM
Mom tried to call dad maybe?

but didn't check on sick baby??? (mom claims last time she saw baby was 1030)

Cortne
10-07-2011, 01:06 PM
:pullhair: :pullhair: :pullhair: :pullhair:

Big DITTO!!

Forget the poly. Missing cell phones are the answer. Havent we all learned to stay off the good ol mobile if we are committing a crime? Geez. She had to have known her phone would sink her if shes guilty.

Juno
10-07-2011, 01:06 PM
If mom was asleep, HOW did she make a call at 2:30??????????????? OMG....

Yeah THAT! Now that is some breaking news and a game changer in my opinion. (brought me outta lurking) :seeya:

Mirage
10-07-2011, 01:07 PM
If mom was asleep, HOW did she make a call at 2:30??????????????? OMG....


Or.... whoever had posession of the phone made a call....

CarrieBean
10-07-2011, 01:07 PM
Is this new info coming directly from LE?

luckyme
10-07-2011, 01:07 PM
Mom tried to call dad maybe?

But she was in bed at 10.30 and dad woke her up at 4.00! she didnt know baby had been missing!! They would know if that call was from the house. wouldnt they?

nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 01:07 PM
wow... no WONDER le wouldn't talk about the phones.. .if they truly thought they were taken/missing they most likely would put fliers out in the media with pictures of what they look like...

oh my

davehead21
10-07-2011, 01:07 PM
If mom was asleep, HOW did she make a call at 2:30??????????????? OMG....

The intruder did it, duh!!

In da Middle
10-07-2011, 01:07 PM
Thank you. It did. That square in the middle - are those stairs that lead to the lower level?


It really can't be. That would put the stairs coming down in the middle of the garage directly below it. Something is totally wrong with this graphic.

Cortne
10-07-2011, 01:08 PM
Why do people continually think they can beat the system and get away with things?Because so many do esp recently? Shrug.

mrsu
10-07-2011, 01:08 PM
Husband was helping construct a new Starbucks in town.

Mom started sweating profusely when they told her she failed and said she wanted an attorney.

Cazzie
10-07-2011, 01:08 PM
I am with you on this. They know something. I could also be wrong, but I don't think so.
And I think that what several posters interpreted as "ego, testosterone" on the part of the LE spokesperson (in the evening presser yesterday) could very well have been anger at either or both of the parents. Based on what LE knows/found so far.

There were quite a few questions asked by reporters in that presser that he said he could not/would not answer (rather than "I don't know").

I interpreted all of that to mean that LE has reason to be focusing on one or both of the parents (other than the standard "look at those closest first").

It could be something as "simple" as inconsistencies in statements by one parent (or both, or between them) to LE and media, so far. Or inconsistencies with his/her/their statements to statements by other persons, evidence collected, etc..

SleuthyMama
10-07-2011, 01:08 PM
Not passing the lie detector test I can possibly see happening due to exhaustion, extreme stress, etc.

The possibility that mommy made a phone call at 2:30 AM from one of these phones that disappeared with Baby Lisa is mighty sketchy to me. I have thought that the 3 phones going missing was hinky from the beginning though.

And if the police are saying they "think" mom made a call at 2:30 AM, then I would almost bet they KNOW that for a fact.

~n/t~
10-07-2011, 01:08 PM
Anyone could have made a call at 2:30. The follow up investigation on that should yield a lot of clues, I would think.

All it takes is track the number to where the call was made and voila! If the person on the other end says mom called....well, we have a problem.

Kimbreeley
10-07-2011, 01:08 PM
Yeah THAT! Now that is some breaking news and a game changer in my opinion. (brought me outta lurking) :seeya:

I agree. I am sick to my stomach. Oh, and Fox says the mom DID lawyer up.

swanniee11
10-07-2011, 01:08 PM
Anyone could have made a call at 2:30. The follow up investigation on that should yield a lot of clues, I would think.



Not only that but couldn't they get the # the call was made too?

Shelby1
10-07-2011, 01:09 PM
Per Fox News. All of this coming from a credible source close to LE:


*****phone call made from Irwin home at 2:30 a.m.

****Debbie failed LDT "miserably"


****Jeremy Irwin was working to construct a new Starbucks

mamacita
10-07-2011, 01:10 PM
unless maybe a perp was trying to turn the phones off so that they wouldnt ping and accidenally hit 'send' and made a call?

what's important is who the call was made to and how long it lasted. :)

tk71texas
10-07-2011, 01:10 PM
http://www.woostercollective.com/20100310harbord_thunk.jpg

justbeachy
10-07-2011, 01:10 PM
I want more info about this phone call at 2:30. Did it connect to someone? How long was it? Was it a call that started but was cut off before connecting? Let's just say we believe the intruder theory who stole the phones. Could they have accidentally started a call when trying to either turn phones off or remove batteries and then quickly ended the call before it connected?

I want details.

Kimbreeley
10-07-2011, 01:11 PM
The intruder did it, duh!!

Oh yeah, what was I thinking?! Lol!

Apples2Apples
10-07-2011, 01:11 PM
In Da House..what's the feeling like there in the neighborhood?

Maybe they found the cellphones in the field or in the sewers. Maybe they had incriminating evidence on them against whoever is responsible. MOO

Jetaime
10-07-2011, 01:11 PM
Or.... whoever had posession of the phone made a call....

But wouldn't they have worded it differently? eg "the cellphone was reprogrammed and an outgoing call was placed @ 2:30 am."
The fact that they specifically said *mom* makes me believe they have more info...jmo

luckyme
10-07-2011, 01:11 PM
Not passing the lie detector test I can possibly see happening due to exhaustion, extreme stress, etc.

The possibility that mommy made a phone call at 2:30 AM from one of these phones that disappeared with Baby Lisa is mighty sketchy to me. I have thought that the 3 phones going missing was hinky from the beginning though.

And if the police are saying they "think" mom made a call at 2:30 AM, then I would almost bet they KNOW that for a fact.

Did mom have a car at the house? Maybe those phones are in water!!!

RJA00
10-07-2011, 01:12 PM
i pocket dial people all the time with my phone,

maybe just maybe the intruder grabbed the phones and stuck them in there pocket and the phone dialed, I know it can happen

Coldpizza
10-07-2011, 01:12 PM
Mark F saying the questions she failed were undoubtedly along the lines

Do you know what happened to your daughter?

Did you do something with your daughter?

I didn't catch the last one

SlGriffith
10-07-2011, 01:12 PM
David Smith once stood firmly by Susan only to be devastated and heartbroken in the end.

TobyWong*
10-07-2011, 01:12 PM
KCTV News at Noon reports that they spoke with Baby Lisa's aunt and she said the reason that the parents are not speaking to the local media is because they're making them look bad.

Didn't the mother just say this morning that she didn't care what people thought of her? Haha-- I can't help but laugh. I feel like I am witnessing an argument between groups of high school kids. Have they forgotten that there is a missing 10 month old child??

I know right.

Why do I feel like I'm more concerned whether she's being fed or is clothed or injured more than her parents? Not saying I am, but all I here is,I did'nt do it, I did'nt do it. Me, I'd be saying pls feed her this or make sure she has this and pls bring her home, w/ LE right next to me.

Me thinks the national media= mo money. (to some)
MOO

LotsaLatte
10-07-2011, 01:12 PM
Not passing the lie detector test I can possibly see happening due to exhaustion, extreme stress, etc.

The possibility that mommy made a phone call at 2:30 AM from one of these phones that disappeared with Baby Lisa is mighty sketchy to me. I have thought that the 3 phones going missing was hinky from the beginning though.

And if the police are saying they "think" mom made a call at 2:30 AM, then I would almost bet they KNOW that for a fact.

You would think they would say something like "whoever has those phones made a call" but that's not what was said. So, either the call was to the dad and the phones were ditched nearby (woods, sewer, etc.) or whoever was on the receiving end of the call, told LE or someone maybe?

cluciano63
10-07-2011, 01:13 PM
I am sure LE knows more about the alleged call or it would not have been released...who it was to, how long it lasted and where it originated...JMO

mamacita
10-07-2011, 01:14 PM
I want more info about this phone call at 2:30. Did it connect to someone? How long was it? Was it a call that started but was cut off before connecting? Let's just say we believe the intruder theory who stole the phones. Could they have accidentally started a call when trying to either turn phones off or remove batteries and then quickly ended the call before it connected?

I want details.


so... justbeachy... apparently great minds DO think alike! hehe that was so similar to what i said that the 9 year old in me wants to say 'jinx'!!! :)

cindysue
10-07-2011, 01:14 PM
I had been thinking the same. If it was his first day(night) at work, I would have checked all windows and doors twice, to make sure they were closed/locked.

Not sure if they think the 'abductor' opened the computer room window in order to hand the baby to an accomplice waiting outside, and then left by the front door. The big question is how could the front door have been left unlocked?

Do we know the exact time the father left for work? And did he take a cellphone with him? That would make four cellphones.

I know that kids can run in and out and i have to keep relocking my doors ..I recheck them before i go to bed cause im usually last, even ask my husband if he checked them and he says yes to go later and find they were unlocked still..so its possible

swanniee11
10-07-2011, 01:14 PM
not sure if this was posted. things tend to move fast here.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1206460277001/suspicions-surrounding-parents-of-missing-missouri-baby

justbeachy
10-07-2011, 01:14 PM
It really seems that LE is putting the pressure on mom and dad to see if someone will break. This LE "source" IMO didn't just leak info because they felt like it. It was leaked on purpose FOR a purpose.

mrye4709
10-07-2011, 01:14 PM
You are not wrong friend. The family thus far have not been helping themselves by releasing these tidbits of information.

I think this can all be looked at two ways. If my child was missing, I wouldn't think to tell media or LE that I was sleeping with a stray kitten. Plus, wouldn't people be saying they are putting in too many details if they did say that first thing? JMO I'm trying to keep an open mind and look at it both ways, but if it is a kidnapping it may not be getting the right kind of attention. I just hope if someone does have her that she is being cared for.

cluciano63
10-07-2011, 01:14 PM
The parents seem more concerned with getting the word out that they are cooperating to me, than anything else right now...JMO

SurfieTX
10-07-2011, 01:14 PM
Big DITTO!!

Forget the poly. Missing cell phones are the answer. Havent we all learned to stay off the good ol mobile if we are committing a crime? Geez. She had to have known her phone would sink her if shes guilty.

Maybe not if the phone(s) "disappeared" too. Or so she thought....

luckyme
10-07-2011, 01:15 PM
ive changed my opinion of this case. until i get some more leaked info. This is pretty big. moo

PoppyH
10-07-2011, 01:15 PM
Well if mom made Baby Lisa disappear, she is a heck of a good actress!

oh_gal
10-07-2011, 01:16 PM
Mark F saying the questions she failed were undoubtedly along the lines

Do you know what happened to your daughter?

Did you do something with your daughter?

I didn't catch the last one

Mom definately seemed caught off guard during the Today interview when asked what questions she specifically failed. Lots of stuttering/uh's..../can't recall's....etc.

Lavanda Dolce
10-07-2011, 01:16 PM
Police stated a call went out on one of those cell phones from that house at 2:30 am.

waltzingmatilda
10-07-2011, 01:16 PM
i pocket dial people all the time with my phone,

maybe just maybe the intruder grabbed the phones and stuck them in there pocket and the phone dialed, I know it can happen

ya! I pocket dialed my neighbor while in line scheduling my college classes. LOL!

shefner
10-07-2011, 01:17 PM
If there was a call made at 2:30 am then LE knows the outgoing number and who it was that was called. That must lead them to believe it was the mom who made the call.

IF mom did something, then dad knows. That's my take on it. In the interview he looks shell-shocked....and suspicious.


ETA: LE can also see how long the phone call lasted.

Cortne
10-07-2011, 01:17 PM
Maybe not if the phone(s) "disappeared" too. Or so she thought....

Hmm you might be right.

I bet the father is clueless here. So sad.

justbeachy
10-07-2011, 01:17 PM
so... justbeachy... apparently great minds DO think alike! hehe that was so similar to what i said that the 9 year old in me wants to say 'jinx'!!! :)

You owe me a coke! (that's what my kids say...when I was young, "jinx" meant you couldn't talk until someone said your name!)

SurfieTX
10-07-2011, 01:17 PM
In Da House..what's the feeling like there in the neighborhood?

Maybe they found the cellphones in the field or in the sewers. Maybe they had incriminating evidence on them against whoever is responsible. MOO

The search yesterday seemed quite specific. It was a brief search, like they knew what they were looking for. No dogs either, which tells me it was about finding a thing and not a person.

norest4thewicked
10-07-2011, 01:17 PM
Police developing different theory per FOX news...failing miserably the poly and sweating profusely. Mother's story never could add up to other stories.

norest4thewicked
10-07-2011, 01:18 PM
Per Fox news: Do not have a lawyer, wants national news, not local. Flyers are going up.

Coldpizza
10-07-2011, 01:19 PM
Damm I hope this isn't another Susan Smith.

If she is guilty, IMO she will crack and soon

almino
10-07-2011, 01:19 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-desperate-parents-make-lists-suspects/story?id=14679914
Bradley described the last time she saw her daughter and how she put her to sleep after changing her and putting her in fresh clothes. She said she put her daughter in her crib with her pacifier, blanket, glow worm toy and a Barney stuffed animal she loves to sleep with. "I gave her her bottle and put her to sleep, and that was when we last saw her," Bradley said.

This timeframe was 7-7:30 pm from all accounts I believe. Why does she say "that was when WE last saw her"? If she checked on her at 10:30 pm prior to bed, does she mean last time seen alive? Who is the WE? Mom and dad? Mom and kids?

When did hubby leave for work? Is he part of that WE at 7-7:30 pm?

LadyPirate
10-07-2011, 01:19 PM
Isn't the river relatively close? I wonder if anybody has search the river at all? Or perhaps that is why they were doing the should to shoulder search earlier? To try and find the phone and who is to say they didn't find the phone? The LE tends to put out whatever info they want the public to know and they hold back info that will help them catch the guilty party.

Katana
10-07-2011, 01:19 PM
Yeah I figured the phone records were why they were being interrogated so extensively.

nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 01:19 PM
David Smith once stood firmly by Susan only to be devastated and heartbroken in the end.

I believed Susan Smith at first too!
http://deathby1000papercuts.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/embarrassed-200.jpg

Lavanda Dolce
10-07-2011, 01:19 PM
Big DITTO!!

Forget the poly. Missing cell phones are the answer. Havent we all learned to stay off the good ol mobile if we are committing a crime? Geez. She had to have known her phone would sink her if shes guilty.

Apparently Jeremy Irwin is talking to the police right now!

norest4thewicked
10-07-2011, 01:19 PM
per Fox - unconfirmed reports that dogs got no hits on child or mother. Story about mother using phone at 2:30 am is true.

Apparently JI is talking to police now.

Kimbreeley
10-07-2011, 01:19 PM
Fox - Jeremy Irwin speaking to LE right now according to family - LE says they HAVE NOT spoken to JI

mrsu
10-07-2011, 01:19 PM
Mother's story could never add up, that's why they requested a polygraph test. It was not offered voluntary.

Aunt still says there is no lawyer.

Was a rumor that tracking dogs traced MOTHER scent to the river. Reporter said that was a TOTAL RUMOR, dogs didn't hit on anything.


***Dad is talking to police RIGHT NOW!

CarrieBean
10-07-2011, 01:19 PM
All of this fence jumping is making me tired.

justbeachy
10-07-2011, 01:20 PM
FWIW, I'd probably sweat profusely if the cops were telling me I failed a polygraph miserably too.

TobyWong*
10-07-2011, 01:20 PM
Little by little...

Apples2Apples
10-07-2011, 01:20 PM
I have a feeling that KCPD know a lot that they aren't letting on to. A whole lot!

Coldpizza
10-07-2011, 01:20 PM
J Irwin is talking to police right now!!!

being reported on FOX

NEVERMIND FOX just took it back

nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 01:20 PM
Per Fox news: Do not have a lawyer, wants national news, not local. Flyers are going up.

okay.....

Cortne
10-07-2011, 01:20 PM
This thing is about to blow wide open!!

Group hug everybody. :(

luckyme
10-07-2011, 01:20 PM
Per Fox news: Do not have a lawyer, wants national news, not local. Flyers are going up.

They must be reading here!! moo

norest4thewicked
10-07-2011, 01:20 PM
per Fox news: Family is saying JI is talking to police, LE says he is not.

mrsu
10-07-2011, 01:21 PM
Detectives say they are not talking to the father!!!!!!!!!!

Lavanda Dolce
10-07-2011, 01:21 PM
What has bothered me is when she said "They took the phones probably so that we couldnt make any calls out.".......my first thought was...HOW? How would a kidnapper know that their only means to call out of the house would have been cell phones? We have a land line phone in our bedroom...so why bother taking cell phones?

shefner
10-07-2011, 01:21 PM
I do not believe the daddy is clueless. If the mom did something to Lisa, he knows. Bless him.

Soulmagent
10-07-2011, 01:21 PM
Yeah I noticed that too but blew it off as being unimportant to the case. Do you think it has relevance? The only thing I can think of is kittens are usually very active at night.....well I should say mine was. :innocent:

Was it confirmed if they had a dog?

Interesting because as a mom. Letting a stray sleep with my son and I in my bed wouldnt be an option. I would have to know what flea, germs and kinda care the kitten had before I could sleep with it. Much less lets my kid snuggle it to his cute little kitten lovin face.

A gift cat who I know where it came from and all that .. no issues. I know they have the same germs. But I already know if it has signs of illness or not.