View Full Version : MO - AMBER ALERT: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #6
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 03:00 PM
Please continue here.
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An AMBER Alert was issued for 10-month-old Lisa Irwin on Tuesday, October 4th after she was abducted from her crib during the early morning hours. As of today (Thursday), no suspects have been identified, and the AMBER Alert has been canceled.
Lisa is 10 months old. She has blue eyes and blonde hair. She is 30 inches tall and weighs between 26 and 30 pounds. Lisa was last seen wearing purple shorts and a purple shirt with white kittens on it.
Lisa is described as having two bottom teeth, a small bug bite under her left ear, a beauty mark on her right outer thigh and currently has a cold with a cough.
Anyone with information is asked to call 9-1-1, your local police agency, or the Kansas City TIPS Hotline at 816-474-8477.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-F3oMoIELBw...600/irwinl.png
Previous Threads:
- Thread 1 - Thread 2 - Thread 3 -Thread 4 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150751&page=16) Thread 5
CN2Souls
10-07-2011, 03:03 PM
Wow took a 20 minute break and 1000 post and now a new thread...:talker:
I think I am off the fence now....:fence:
JerricaBenton
10-07-2011, 03:04 PM
Copying this over from the previous thread ...
Originally Posted by Cazzie View Post
Was the Medical Examiner's truck/van there?
I'm in the UK, so Im not entirely sure what that would look like ... but the camera followed a white van (that looked much like a plain ambulance) for quite awhile.
tiredblondy
10-07-2011, 03:05 PM
NURSE can you bring over Shelby1's timeline and add it to the front page too so we will know where to find it?? Pretty please???
Hazel
10-07-2011, 03:05 PM
This link contains a SLIDESHOW with 38 pictures of baby Lisa, the house and much more:
http://www.kctv5.com/slideshow?widgetId=37672&slideshowImageId=1
AnaTeresa
10-07-2011, 03:06 PM
The thread really exploded, didn't it? I'm trying to keep up (when I should be working), but I'm really still on the fence. I just can't get a good feel for this one. The parents seem sincere to me. LE seems to be working hard, but I'm also perplexed a bit by some of LE's media statements and handling of the case. Not accusing them of anything - but it's definitely thrown me a bit.
katydid23
10-07-2011, 03:06 PM
My husband gets home late very often, and to this day he checks on the kids if they are home, and they are college aged. Bless his heart.
I find it strange that it was the first night her husband was working an all night shift, YET she did not lock the front door. Seems weird, imo.
BeanE
10-07-2011, 03:07 PM
Last post in the last thread has a link to a news article saying it was the first time Mom didn't lock the door. :(
matou
10-07-2011, 03:07 PM
Tom Coffman of Deffenbaugh Industries, which owns and operates the landfill at Interstate 435 and Holliday Drive, confirmed that authorities were on site looking for the child.
http://www.shawneedispatch.com/news/2011/oct/07/hunt-missing-baby-moves-shawnee/
Duke Fan4
10-07-2011, 03:07 PM
Trying to keep up with both Baby Lisa and Baby Aliayah is like work.
swanniee11
10-07-2011, 03:07 PM
Mother said this is the 1st time she had not locked the door.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-parents-upset-police-tough-tactics/story?id=14688581&page=2
Shelby1
10-07-2011, 03:08 PM
Lisa Irwin Timeline
Monday October 3, 2011
Abducted by intruder through bedroom window. Far right window of house.
UPDATE—according to police spokesman window may not be correct.
3620 block of North Lister 64117
CORRECTION TO ABOVE GIVEN BY JEREMY IN PHONE INTERVIEW 10-6-2011
Lisa in bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie in bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room. Point of entry by abductor was unlocked front door, window mentioned earlier was NOT tampered with.
UPDATE 10-6-11 3 cell phones also taken. One does not even work. Also, dad came home to find front door unlocked, most of the lights on and front window open.
Jeremy Irwin, Lisa’s father, told local media that whoever took his daughter also took all three of their cell phones so they couldn’t call anybody, including 911.
Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG)
~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them
~phones were gone
~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.
~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard
~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know
(thank you NBM)
__________________________________________________ ___________________
Other two sons asleep in different bedrooms. (sons are half brothers to Lisa-the 6 year old is Debbie’s and the 8 year old is Jeremy’s from previous relationships.)—Correction. One son—the 6 year old was asleep with the mom and a stray kitten he had found earlier in the day.
Father is electrician that works nights. This night was the first night he EVER worked at night.—Jeremy http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/miss...olice-14688735 (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisa-irwins-parents-stop-cooperating-police-14688735)
Mother is a SAHM--Debbie
Monday October 3, 2011 10:00 p.m. Last seen in crib wearing purple shorts and purple shirt with white kittens on it.
**Possibly seen by Mr. Parscale (a man that lives in the area) according to his wife Lisa around 12:00 a.m. Tuesday wearing only a diaper being carried by a male. Quote from Lisa--“He seen the guy act like he was going to go into a residence,” Parscale said, “but then my husband drove off so we’re thinking that maybe he was just doing that so that my husband would leave.”
**Parscale says her husband saw the man walking on a street perpendicular to North Lister, where Lisa Irwin lives with her parents and brothers.
Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib.
UPDATE at 2:00 p.m. October 4 presser Capt. Steve Young speaking—Parents’ story has no holes. Looking into neighbor that possibly saw Lisa being carried by the male. No suspects other than neighbor sighting.
Tuesday October 4, 2011 approx. 7:00 p.m. amber alert cancelled. Lisa is considered a MISSING/ENDANGERED JUVENILE. Per police the alert has served it’s purpose. Police and dogs will search for a while into the night.
*** Tuesday night authorities searched a van and car at the home. There is no word on what police found or were looking for. Officers searching for the child focused on areas near the family's home such as railroad tracks near the north side of the Missouri River and a wooded area behind the home. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-authorities-continue-search-for-missing-baby-20111005,0,6273053.story
Tuesday 9:25 p.m.
Mass exodus of police from the command center. Looks like K-9's are finished searching for the night. Police search will continue in AM
by cliffjudy via twitter (http://twitter.com/CliffJudy/status/121410556468015104) 9:25 P
**family stayed with relatives after being questioned until 10:30 p.m.
Wednesday October 5, 2011
9:00 a.m. press conference Capt. Steve Young speaking—basically no new information. Still searching with dogs, however there have been no hits. Parents not ruled out, but also not suspects. Very cooperative.
** KMBC's Jana Corrie: Children who were also inside the home at the time of the disappearance staying with neighbors
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv)
**conflicting reports…unless the Grandparents are being referred to as “neighbors”
NBC Action News reporter Sloane Heller reports Lisa’s grandparents are watching the couple’s other children and have not been able to reach them since earlier Tuesday.
Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz (http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz)
Next news conference sometime this afternoon.
2:00 news conference—Jeremy spoke with Deborah (Bradley?) by his side. Begged for baby to be dropped off somewhere safe. The brothers are waiting to see their sister. Declined to take questions.
Again, Capt. Has no leads, not ruling out anything. 300 knocks and searches. 46 tips. No ransom note. Family is free to go where they would like. Family does not want to be at house.
**Alleged sighting of Lisa with a middle aged white male and female at a Love’s gas station in St. Joseph, MO I-29 and US HWY 169. Driving older model SUV. Article came out around 5:15 p.m. Surveillance video has been turned over to LE. Police say it doesn’t seem to be a major lead.
Thursday October 6, 2011
**Jeremy and Debbie provided LE with a list of 9 names of people that could be possible suspects.
**Per Debbie regarding cell phones and possible other missing items:
~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them
~phones were gone
~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.
~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard
~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know
(thank you NBM)
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old
** police detectives are meeting early this morning to talk about where to search next.
**per Debbie, “Lisa is very sweet and will go to almost anybody.”
**per Jeremy, window was not tampered with, so perp (s) must have come in through unlocked front door.
**Lisa went to bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie went to bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room.
***Debbie and Jeremy have a heated discussion with LE before speeding off in police car to command center to find out about possible new lead. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lisa-irwin-parents-have-heated-discussion-with-police-20111006,0,5671503.story
**the list of suspects provided by the parents is now up to 12.
Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4 (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4)
Originally Posted by BeanE file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Melissa/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif--thank you BeanE
Capt. Young: "There is no doubt they informed us that they no longer wish to cooperate with the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:05 PM
Capt. Young: "We have no plans to close the command center yet, but it will close at some point."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:04 PM
Capt. Young: "I don't have to illustrate how their lack of cooperation hurts the investigation."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM
Capt. Young: "I cannot get into the details of the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM
Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM
Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspect. If we had enough to charge anyone with, we'd probably be pursuing charges."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM
Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspects. From an investigative standpoint we've enjoyed their cooperation"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM
Capt. Young": The parents have intimate information as to what's been going on...our door is open and it doesn't help that they are no longer cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM
Capt. Young: "They've always been free and cooperative up until this point, but they've decided to stop cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM
Capt. Steve Young: Mother and father of baby Lisa Irwin have stopped cooperating with police
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1a39rwETg (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a39rwETg)
"This evening we will be shutting down the command post. We believe we have done all we can regarding geographic searches and will continue tracking leads as we get them or develop additional information," police Officer Darin Snapp said in a news release.
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG)
Family statement: We saw the press conference at 7 PM, and we want you to know we have never stopped cooperating with police.
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 9:11 PM
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3m5ocP3 (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3m5ocP3)
Friday October 7, 2011
(thank you BeanE for gathering these)
#LisaIrwin's mom:We want to thank everybody who has helped us so far.
1 minute ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: we are not angry, we just want our daughter home, that's all we care about.
2 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: we appreciate everything the police dept. has done, we appreciate everything everybody has done.
2 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin mom: we don't know, which is why we need everybody to continue to look for her...because we want her home, we can't do this alone
21 seconds ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: "he's a good father and he's good to me and he loves her and everybody loves her, but no, there's no way." (about father)
38 seconds ago
#LisaIrwin's dad: hasn't taken polygraph but "if that's what it takes..."
3 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: "what do you say when someone tells you that and you know you didn't do anything."
4 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: volunteered to take polygraph, told failed. Says that's not possible.
4 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: We don't care what anybody thinks, we don't care what they think, our concern is to find Lisa, our Lisa.
5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
#LisaIrwin's Mom: don't have hard feelings, not mad, this is what they (police) have to do.
5 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's Mom: police really nice yesterday, not like that the first time.
6 minutes ago
**Debbie failed LDT. Jeremy has offered, but LE said it’s not necessary.
Floor plan of Debbie and Jeremy’s home (thank you Carriebean)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19070&d=1317999122
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Melissa/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image003.jpg
**a neighbor in the area also had her dog come up missing the same night. (maybe related, maybe not)
http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml
**FBI cleared all the people that Jeremy and Debbie mentioned as possible suspects.
PER FOX NEWS REPORT AT 12:00 P.M.
***Call made from Irwin home at 2:30 a.m.
**Debbie failed the LDT “MISERABLY”
** Jeremy at work constructing a new Starbucks (company? All Current Electric)
**Per the great grandfather (see the end of the following video at the 1:16 mark)
The GGFather then says "they are supposed to...with their lawyer offer some kind of statement to the press at a later time...(-00:19)
Then the reporter then says "...as you just heard, the couple has now hired a lawyer .....
http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/1276...er-Cooperating (http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/12764007-7d2d-443f-8d1c-cd907f7fac1b/News/Police-Family-of-Missing-Baby-No-Longer-Cooperating)
Thank you to Hazel for finding this!
***ANONYMOUS TIP—LE searching Shawnee Kansas landfill.
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/Tip-Johnson-County-landfill-search-tied-to-Lisa-Irwin-case#ixzz1a7YeLYOn
**FBI: This is the second time they've searched the JOCO landfill. The first was Tuesday - hours after #LisaIrwin was reported missing.
10 minutes ago
norest4thewicked
10-07-2011, 03:08 PM
The thread really exploded, didn't it? I'm trying to keep up (when I should be working), but I'm really still on the fence. I just can't get a good feel for this one. The parents seem sincere to me. LE seems to be working hard, but I'm also perplexed a bit by some of LE's media statements and handling of the case. Not accusing them of anything - but it's definitely thrown me a bit.
The thread is definitely exploding!
I thought the parents seemed sincere, but I've thought that in other cases that didn't end well.
I think that the media statements from LE are appropriate. Just MOO.
tiredblondy
10-07-2011, 03:09 PM
Thank you NURSE !!!!
:tyou::gthanks:
Cazzie
10-07-2011, 03:09 PM
I'm in the UK, so Im not entirely sure what that would look like ... but the camera followed a white van (that looked much like a plain ambulance) for quite awhile.
In following other cases, I have seen them as white vans, or even white trucks with "camper shells" (similar to what mobile veterinarians use, with doors that open up the compartments around both sides and even back), all marked "Medical Examiner"...maybe not always, IDK.
norest4thewicked
10-07-2011, 03:10 PM
http://www.shawneedispatch.com/news/2011/oct/07/hunt-missing-baby-moves-shawnee/
Someone is going to be unemployed I bet.
EDIT: Oops...guess the owner can't lose his job huh? Strange that someone would say this even though we know that this probably is true as it hasn't been released to the public yet.
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 03:10 PM
http://g.co/maps/3unx9
interactive case map
belimom
10-07-2011, 03:11 PM
Getting carsick trying to follow along while riding along I-95 headed to the boat show. At least I have an iPad with 3G.
So what did LE say awhile back when they were going to be live? I think it was like 30 minutes ago? Anything?
I'm not off the fence. Still on the same side that I was, just sad for this precious child...
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 03:11 PM
[/SIZE]
:seeya: NURSE Did you see this? Pretty please... unless we could have a sticky for the timeline.
hey there blondie:seeya: look up ^^^ da plane da plane (shelby beat me to it LOL)
CN2Souls
10-07-2011, 03:12 PM
Grieving the abduction of a child
and grieving the death of a child can look allot like the same thing...
I am just saying.....
Hazel
10-07-2011, 03:12 PM
Dumpster Fire Leads Police To Search Landfill2:07 p.m. CDT, October 7, 2011
KANSAS CITY, Mo.—
An early morning dumpster fire this week has lead investigators to search a Johnson County landfill for the third time in the Lisa Irwin case.
Police said there was a dumpster fire at an apartment complex at 4897 NE 37th Street at 2:27 a.m. on Tuesday, October 4. The dumpster is less than a half a mile away from the Irwin home.
full article: http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-police-search-landfill-police-scour-landfill-in-search-of-baby-lisa-20111007,0,5538504.story
cheesus cripes
10-07-2011, 03:12 PM
My husband leaves for work by 4am each day and he always checks on the kids before he leaves the house. If he happens to be working nights he will peek in on them if they are still asleep when he gets home. I will go in their rooms and check on them before I go to sleep too. It's just something we've done since they were tiny babies and we were paranoid about SIDS.
Atimetostand
10-07-2011, 03:13 PM
I use to work for a small cell phone company. The police do not have to have the phones to find out who was called and how long the call lasted. Had the police at our work several times for the same person who kept making harassing and threatening calls to a young lady that he was fascinated with.
norest4thewicked
10-07-2011, 03:13 PM
Dumpster Fire Leads Police To Search Landfill
full article: http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-police-search-landfill-police-scour-landfill-in-search-of-baby-lisa-20111007,0,5538504.story
Wow...very coincidental....and same time...
Katana
10-07-2011, 03:14 PM
So the dumpster fire is true? This is just getting worse by the second!
SleuthyMama
10-07-2011, 03:14 PM
Dumpster Fire Leads Police To Search Landfill
full article: http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-police-search-landfill-police-scour-landfill-in-search-of-baby-lisa-20111007,0,5538504.story
Hmm, 2:27 AM, huh? Coincidentally, right around 2:30 AM when LE says mom made a phone call from one of those cell phones.
I am so not liking the road we are headed down.
Shelby1
10-07-2011, 03:15 PM
hey there blondie:seeya: look up ^^^ da plane da plane (shelby beat me to it LOL)
LOL! Sorry.
I'm always updating it, so I hate to make it a sticky, you know?
dog.gone.cute
10-07-2011, 03:15 PM
:eek::eek: wow ... a new thread already :waitasec: and I haven't even finished the last one !
:waitasec: Why do I get the feeling that "something" is about to "break" in this case soon ?
MOO ...
smeck
10-07-2011, 03:15 PM
Dumpster Fire Leads Police To Search Landfill
full article: http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-police-search-landfill-police-scour-landfill-in-search-of-baby-lisa-20111007,0,5538504.story
This seems very important---way to remove evidence. Hope they are looking at the residents of the apt building. Hoping that they have surveillance cameras.
MaciBean
10-07-2011, 03:16 PM
this made me sick....
http://www.familywatchdog.us/ShowMap.asp?frm=0
matou
10-07-2011, 03:16 PM
Dumpster Fire Leads Police To Search Landfill
full article: http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-police-search-landfill-police-scour-landfill-in-search-of-baby-lisa-20111007,0,5538504.story
From your quote:
An early morning dumpster fire this week has lead investigators to search a Johnson County landfill for the third time in the Lisa Irwin case.
Police said there was a dumpster fire at an apartment complex at 4897 NE 37th Street at 2:27 a.m. on Tuesday, October 4. The dumpster is less than a half a mile away from the Irwin home.
Notice the time. I don't want to think that baby Lisa was in there.
Cazzie
10-07-2011, 03:16 PM
Dumpster Fire Leads Police To Search Landfill
full article: http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-police-search-landfill-police-scour-landfill-in-search-of-baby-lisa-20111007,0,5538504.story
Wow, that is interesting.
And now, *3* searches of the landfill in this case....
SleuthyMama
10-07-2011, 03:16 PM
But wouldn't setting fire to a dumpster, where one presumably could have gotten rid of evidence bring MORE attention to things? I would think you would want to remain as far "under the cover of darkness" as possible.
AnaTeresa
10-07-2011, 03:17 PM
The trash from that fire had been examined two times before, and police were at the Johnson County Deffenbaugh Industries' landfill on Friday to search it again.
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-police-search-landfill-police-scour-landfill-in-search-of-baby-lisa-20111007,0,5538504.story
So three times - what do they think they missed the first two?
If I were the parents and I were innocent, I would be angry about this. Like the multiple woods searches, it gives the impression of going in circles. If they do find something in a later search, it gives the impression of incompetence.
I said previously, if the parents are innocent, I'm going to be steamed with LE's handling of this. I really want to believe they know what they're doing and that there's a lot going on behind the scenes. I'm hoping they've got a solid reason for this.
smeck
10-07-2011, 03:18 PM
I wonder if the parents know anyone that lives in that apartment building?
BobbieBu
10-07-2011, 03:18 PM
Last post in the last thread has a link to a news article saying it was the first time Mom didn't lock the door. :(
The 1st time dad at new job, the 1st time mom DIDN'T lock the door... There are to many 1st here and a baby is missing. Something isn't right here!!!
prayers for little lisa!!! that she is found safe and alive!
AnaTeresa
10-07-2011, 03:19 PM
Also, if Lisa was in the dumpster, they would have found her in the first search. Fires set like that do not burn hot enough to cremate someone.
So - what are they really looking for?
Cazzie
10-07-2011, 03:19 PM
Hmm, 2:27 AM, huh? Coincidentally, right around 2:30 AM when LE says mom made a phone call from one of those cell phones.
I am so not liking the road we are headed down.
I am speculating that the call went to (or was placed from) the location of the dumpster....JMO...
tiredblondy
10-07-2011, 03:20 PM
LOL! Sorry.
I'm always updating it, so I hate to make it a sticky, you know?
I understand at least now I know where to look for it...Thanks so much!
matou
10-07-2011, 03:20 PM
It seems that LE is searching for a dead baby now. I hope I'm wrong. Are there any searches going on right now? Any posters out?
gwenabob
10-07-2011, 03:21 PM
Also, if Lisa was in the dumpster, they would have found her in the first search. Fires set like that do not burn hot enough to cremate someone.
So - what are they really looking for?
cell phones?
mck16
10-07-2011, 03:21 PM
I am speculating that the call went to (or was placed from) the location of the dumpster....JMO...
Just wondering if they have called the cell phones since the disappearance? Couldn't they tell by the pings where the phones are now? Or is the technology that sophistocated? tia
CN2Souls
10-07-2011, 03:22 PM
It seems that LE is searching for a dead baby now. I hope I'm wrong. Are there any searches going on right now? Any posters out?
My opinion,
something in the interviews and LDT,
has made them now search for a baby that has passed...:cry:
laytonian
10-07-2011, 03:22 PM
But wouldn't setting fire to a dumpster, where one presumably could have gotten rid of evidence bring MORE attention to things? I would think you would want to remain as far "under the cover of darkness" as possible.
...except someone who would do this, isn't a brainiac and has to move quickly.
The timing and location of the dumpster fire is very suspicious to me, and (IMO) leads in the direction of the mother. Someone had to destroy evidence quickly, after removing the child from the home.
It's all too coincidental. First night that the father starts a new job, and the child disappears *exactly* while he's gone?
I really hope it's not the mother. But who'd break into a house, deep inside a subdivision, crawl inside a window and leave no evidence, and then manage to crawl out again ... leaving no evidence?
lne1970
10-07-2011, 03:22 PM
Assuming that the Dad or both parents is responsible (and I think this is true), what in the world would be their motive?
BetteDavisEyes
10-07-2011, 03:23 PM
Also, if Lisa was in the dumpster, they would have found her in the first search. Fires set like that do not burn hot enough to cremate someone.
So - what are they really looking for?
Three cell phones?
rpipergirl
10-07-2011, 03:24 PM
I feel awful for these parents. They are clearly emotionally exhausted. In her pictures Lisa looks so happy, well cared for and well loved.:twocents:
CN2Souls
10-07-2011, 03:24 PM
My thought are the window was staged, by whom.....I haven't got a clue .....YET....
gwenabob
10-07-2011, 03:24 PM
...except someone who would do this, isn't a brainiac and has to move quickly.
The timing and location of the dumpster fire is very suspicious to me, and (IMO) leads in the direction of the mother. Someone had to destroy evidence quickly, after removing the child from the home.
It's all too coincidental. First night that the father starts a new job, and the child disappears *exactly* while he's gone?
I really hope it's not the mother. But who'd break into a house, deep inside a subdivision, crawl inside a window and leave no evidence, and then manage to crawl out again ... leaving no evidence?
And leave the lights on? That's what gets me. If you are creeping around in someone's house--stranger or acquaintance--you don't turn on the lights! Someone--anyone--could wake up and catch you. And you don't take cell phones with you that can be used for tracking. None of this makes sense.
I really think Mom is behind this and Dad is helping her to cover it. That poor child.
norest4thewicked
10-07-2011, 03:24 PM
But wouldn't setting fire to a dumpster, where one presumably could have gotten rid of evidence bring MORE attention to things? I would think you would want to remain as far "under the cover of darkness" as possible.
But, that would mean that you were thinking logically. How logically could a mother be thinking if she just had killed her child, either accidentally or on purpose? This is horrifying to even imagine!
belimom
10-07-2011, 03:25 PM
I so want to keep following but DH and I are arriving at the boat show... It's our anniversary trip so I'm going to have to check back later. Keep up the good work here and prayers for this little baby.
gwenabob
10-07-2011, 03:25 PM
Assuming that the Dad or both parents is responsible (and I think this is true), what in the world would be their motive?
Accidental death, I think.
Grieving the abduction of a child
and grieving the death of a child can look allot like the same thing...
I am just saying.....
Kind of like when someone passes, and you cry, and you say, "I want them back. I just want them back."
Cazzie
10-07-2011, 03:25 PM
...except someone who would do this, isn't a brainiac and has to move quickly.
The timing and location of the dumpster fire is very suspicious to me, and (IMO) leads in the direction of the mother. Someone had to destroy evidence quickly, after removing the child from the home.
It's all too coincidental. First night that the father starts a new job, and the child disappears *exactly* while he's gone?
I really hope it's not the mother. But who'd break into a house, deep inside a subdivision, crawl inside a window and leave no evidence, and then manage to crawl out again ... leaving no evidence?
It's been established (link on previous thread or threads) that LE determined that the window was not used as point of entry and that the door must have been unlocked. That is my understanding, anyway...
In da Middle
10-07-2011, 03:25 PM
Mother said this is the 1st time she had not locked the door.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-parents-upset-police-tough-tactics/story?id=14688581&page=2
This revelation kinda makes me lean to parental involvement. How would a random stranger get this lucky????? Too many lucky coincidences for me...
Blue Ridge
10-07-2011, 03:25 PM
Those little boys are old enough to know, unless they slept thru it, whether or not their mother left the house that night. I wonder if LE has been allowed to speak to the children?
KindraLore
10-07-2011, 03:25 PM
Hard to keep up with the thread so I dont know if this has been mentioned but fox is reporting that a call was made from one of the cell phones that night at 2:30am...
AnaTeresa
10-07-2011, 03:26 PM
...except someone who would do this, isn't a brainiac and has to move quickly.
The timing and location of the dumpster fire is very suspicious to me, and (IMO) leads in the direction of the mother. Someone had to destroy evidence quickly, after removing the child from the home.
It's all too coincidental. First night that the father starts a new job, and the child disappears *exactly* while he's gone?
I really hope it's not the mother. But who'd break into a house, deep inside a subdivision, crawl inside a window and leave no evidence, and then manage to crawl out again ... leaving no evidence?
But, just to look at things from the flip side, haven't there been other stranger abductions from a home where there wasn't evidence in the home? I know they've been brought up in previous threads. My mind is drawing a blank on names. Someone remember?
CarrieBean
10-07-2011, 03:26 PM
I feel awful for these parents. They are clearly emotionally exhausted. In her pictures Lisa looks so happy, well cared for and well loved.:twocents:
That's what makes this all so confusing.
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 03:26 PM
From Mahoney: Also, the grandfather of Deb Bradley offered an explanation for the police statement on Thursday that the parents were no longer cooperating with police. A claim the family disputes.
David Netz, Sr says the couple objected to police questioning tactics.
"They would cone in and say, 'OK, Jeremy said this, and they'd go back to Jeremy and say Deb said this and this," Netz said.
"When you're tired and worried about your baby, you're bound to make itty bitty mistakes in time lines", Netz said.
"And they have been pouncing in every little, from what I understand, every little mistake that is made".
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 3:21 PM
From Mahoney: He also says they are also watching developments in the search of a Johnson County landfill.
Lerette calls this a day where Irwin and Bradley, as well as other family members, are trying to get some sleep after a tension-filled week.
The couple's 10-month old daughter, Lisa disappeared Tuesday.
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 3:19 PM
From KMBC's Mike Mahoney: A relative of Jeremy Irwin and Deb Bradley, the parents of the missing Kansas City baby, say they are hoping a tip from California pays off. Mike Lerette told KMBC's Micheal Mahoney the FBI may be looking at some surveillance video shown a couple in California with a very young child. He would not elaborate.
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 3:19 PM
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a7u41oay
---------------------
Cazzie
10-07-2011, 03:27 PM
Just wondering if they have called the cell phones since the disappearance? Couldn't they tell by the pings where the phones are now? Or is the technology that sophistocated? tia
My guess is that they want the phones in order to fingerprint them, test for DNA, etc.. JMO...
TakeNote
10-07-2011, 03:27 PM
why would someone kidnap a baby and take three cell phones.....hinky
gwenabob
10-07-2011, 03:27 PM
Those little boys are old enough to know, unless they slept thru it, whether or not their mother left the house that night. I wonder if LE has been allowed to speak to the children?
Sorry if this has been covered earlier, but does this family have two cars? Could Mom have taken off while the boys slept? Or would she have had to walk? Like to an apartment complex close by.
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 03:27 PM
http://www.kmbc.com/slideshow/news/29419924/detail.html
landfill pictures
Cazzie
10-07-2011, 03:28 PM
Just wondering if they have called the cell phones since the disappearance? Couldn't they tell by the pings where the phones are now? Or is the technology that sophistocated? tia
I'm sure they did everything possible about the phones long ago...JMO, but I don't know as they haven't released that info.
My guess is that they want the phones in order to fingerprint them, test for DNA, etc.. JMO...
Assuming that the Dad or both parents is responsible (and I think this is true), what in the world would be their motive?
Lisa did have a cold and cough according to the AA that was first issued. Maybe Lisa was legitimately sick and some sort of "natural" cause took Lisa's life. I don't see the mom as having purposely done something to Lisa with an intent to harm her. I think there was an accident of some sort and Mom covered with the kidnapping story.
FWIW I didn't think Mom had anything to do with it at all until I watched the Today show interview with her from this morning. That interview along with all the tidbits that are coming out today have tipped me off the fence.
Lisa :praying:
DLT88
10-07-2011, 03:28 PM
Hmm, 2:27 AM, huh? Coincidentally, right around 2:30 AM when LE says mom made a phone call from one of those cell phones.
I am so not liking the road we are headed down.
Does anyone know if this mother seemed to suffer symptoms of post-partem depression since this child was born? Just thinking. She comes off as very sincere to me, but just trying to think of everything.
liltexans
10-07-2011, 03:28 PM
This revelation kinda makes me lean to parental involvement. How would a random stranger get this lucky????? Too many lucky coincidences for me...
A random stranger wouldn't get this lucky, in my opinion. Someone who had been watching/stalking the family might get this lucky, although if the door was usually locked at night, then maybe not.
However, there are a lot of "firsts" that seemed to occur on that night and extra details being offered (like the newly found kitten sleeping with mom and son) and Lisa having a cough/cold and the missing cell phones.
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 03:29 PM
Sorry if this has been covered earlier, but does this family have two cars? Could Mom have taken off while the boys slept? Or would she have had to walk? Like to an apartment complex close by.
I forget which number thread it was in but there is a link that a car and the work van were both searched... there were pictures too.. a white car and then the electric van that said, "all current electric" on the side of it
~n/t~
10-07-2011, 03:29 PM
Mother said this is the 1st time she had not locked the door.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-parents-upset-police-tough-tactics/story?id=14688581&page=2
That really confuses me. She admits leaving it unlocked? Why of all nights when her husband first night job decides to leave a door unlocked?
Makes no sense.
Irwin said that this was the first night he had ever worked the overnight shift and Bradley said it was the first night she had ever left the door unlocked.
linda505
10-07-2011, 03:29 PM
If this was an abduction the missing cell phones do not alarm me. Cell phones are very easy to pawn. All the thieves do is remove the sims card (maybe these are what they are looking for in the dumpster fire) and delete the phone history and pawn it - quick easy money -especially if they are iphones or droids. Picking up the phones on the way out could have just been an spur of the moment decision - they are sitting there on the counter, easy grab. If she was reprogramming numbers in them - maybe they were new - seems that might be the case because she said one wasn't working - I have two phones in my purse right now - one doesn't work but I carry it cause I am too lazy to transfer all the info - so I do it as needed. I am still suspicious of both of the parents - but since LE has come out and not confirmed the call at 2:30 and denied that they said that she had failed the Lie detector test "miserably" or maybe denied saying she failed at all- it puts me back to hoping that this was an abduction and maybe Lisa is alive.
SilkySifaka
10-07-2011, 03:29 PM
Bringing over from ElepherJust shoot me now - I still believe the mother did not have anything to do with Lisa going missing. I have pocket dialed my home phone and various other numbers from shoving my blackberry in my pocket. How in the h3ll does LE know for sure that it was Mom who made the call from the cell phone at 2:30am unless a conversation was recorded. Anybody could have had the phone at that point.
We must remember this is a "leak" from LE and not stated by LE themselves.
The only visual that I have got in my head right now is Jeremy pounding on the door down at LE headquarters and LE standing there saying "uh oh ... nah .. nah ya'all ain't getting in here".
All moo and I have been wrong before but until there is further hard statements from LE's mouths themselves, will not buy into this "leaked" information .... on Fox wasn't it?
Just had to say m ore than thanks, ITA
CN2Souls
10-07-2011, 03:29 PM
I think we all know, that abduction happen when people are home,
However, they are very rare
and how many of them have so many VERY odd things that also don't jive?
TakeNote
10-07-2011, 03:30 PM
the cell phones will lead to finding the baby.....someone wants the baby to be found.....just my thought
matou
10-07-2011, 03:30 PM
Those little boys are old enough to know, unless they slept thru it, whether or not their mother left the house that night. I wonder if LE has been allowed to speak to the children?
Weren't the children placed somewhere for awhile? I can't remember how it was worded.
CarrieBean
10-07-2011, 03:31 PM
Any half decent parent in their right mind would call 911 after an accident. The only thing I can think is someone lost it because baby was sick and cranky...hit, dropped, shaken...
EGirl
10-07-2011, 03:31 PM
why would someone kidnap a baby and take three cell phones.....hinky
IMO those cell phones are 'missing' because someone figured out they could be traced by pings, even if they weren't used to make calls.
In da Middle
10-07-2011, 03:31 PM
Dumpster Fire Leads Police To Search Landfill
full article: http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-police-search-landfill-police-scour-landfill-in-search-of-baby-lisa-20111007,0,5538504.story
this particular complex does not get their trash picked up with ours. they call in as dumpsters are full and then they are dumped..FYI rumor has it that some of these dumpsters have cameras on them due to non-complex residents dumping in them....!
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 03:33 PM
By a little before 2 p.m. CDT, they had cleared the scene without appearing to have taken anything from the landfill.
Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/Tip-Johnson-County-landfill-search-tied-to-Lisa-Irwin-case#ixzz1a7vsFzbp
-------
DLT88
10-07-2011, 03:33 PM
This revelation kinda makes me lean to parental involvement. How would a random stranger get this lucky????? Too many lucky coincidences for me...
Yes, and most wives that I know are a bit nervous when they know they are home alone without a male adult in the house, and they would actually double-lock doors and windows if they could and secure the house before bed. Strange that the door was always locked before but on the one night when you are 'alone' without your husband home, you say, "ah, I don't feel like locking the door tonight". That's all I would think about -- was the unlocked door -- and I'd have to get up to lock it. But I'm a nervous Nelly.
Soulmagent
10-07-2011, 03:34 PM
Anything connected to Lisa would have been found in the first searches of the burned out trash. Be it a body or her clothing .
I dont understand what they could be re examining it for unless they suspect a certain excelerant and found that in someone's home.
Children have been abducted by people crawling into windows and taking the child and leaving no evidence.
Richmond virginia in the seventies right before Christina Wright was abducted from her home in the middle of the night, the lindenburg baby. Last leek in fairfax virginia and Marc Klass's daughter Polly. I am sure there are other examples that I am not aware. So As hard as it is to picture it happens and isnt even off the scale of abnormal abductions.
It is one method child abductors use.
Kakidoll
10-07-2011, 03:34 PM
In the timeline, Mom put Lisa down to sleep with a bottle at 7:30 and it sounds like it was a 'WE' situation w/ Dad? Then she supposedly checked her at 10:30 when she went to bed (would be alone w/ Dad at work).
I, as a mom (probably an overprotective mom) would be touching baby, checking bottle, diaper etc at that time. None of that was mentioned ... what if she wasn't breathing at that time (she had a cough/cold etc so possible medication????) and mom didn't notice, wakes up at 2 wondering why she hasn't heard her cry yet .. because to me, 7:30 -2 is a long time without hearing a baby make any noise ...
My other 'thought' is mom is protecting a sibling for an accident...
The house does seem like a 'staging' to me. I'd notice lights on at 2 in the morning... heck, i notice if my 19 yr old gets up to use the bathroom in the middle of the night and is home for a weekend. I don't think she could have slept thru someone coming in, turning lights on, taking baby, and going back out. Just doesn't sit right with me. Sorry.
MOO
tiredblondy
10-07-2011, 03:34 PM
I'm not of the opinion that Mom was responsible for the death if that's what happened, maybe she was just following orders.
smeck
10-07-2011, 03:34 PM
I do not understand how the mom could have "pocket dialed" the cell phone at 2:30 am when she says that she was asleep and the phones were on the kitchen counter. If the cell phone was used then it wasnt on the counter and maybe the mom wasnt sleeping.
liltexans
10-07-2011, 03:35 PM
That really confuses me. She admits leaving it unlocked? Why of all nights when her husband first night job decides to leave a door unlocked?
Makes no sense.
I can think of only 4 possibilities at the moment:
1) She forgot to lock the door that night. Maybe Jeremy usually locks up and since this was his first night away at the new job, Mom forgot.
2) She is lying about this being the first night it was left unlocked.
3) She left at some point during the night and forgot to lock the door when she came back and she is covering her tracks.
4) She purposely left the door unlocked because she was expecting a guest who didn't have a house key after her husband went to work.
BeanE
10-07-2011, 03:35 PM
Did I read in one of the articles that along with the three cell phones, a cable box is missing?
Three cell phones, a cable box, and a baby... That makes no sense whatsoever.
In da Middle
10-07-2011, 03:35 PM
this made me sick....
http://www.familywatchdog.us/ShowMap.asp?frm=0
Again, DO NOT go by this site. There are a LOT of mismapped offenders. Look up their addresses and look at the zip code. Many should be on the other side of town. The local offenders will have a zip code of 64117. Use crimereports.com and get a more 'real'feel of the area.
Marah
10-07-2011, 03:35 PM
Is the dumpster near the river?
dog.gone.cute
10-07-2011, 03:35 PM
Also, if Lisa was in the dumpster, they would have found her in the first search. Fires set like that do not burn hot enough to cremate someone.
So - what are they really looking for?
Guessing : baby's clothing ? maybe a baby blanket ? baby bottle ? something that would have been taken along with a 10 month old baby ? the cell phones ?
IMO and from "my experience" a "dumpster fire" is not that common -- I have dealt with "dumpsters" for years in my work ... I don't ever recall anything close to a fire.
But people do dump some "unbelievable things" in and around dumpsters ...
moo ...
SyraKelly
10-07-2011, 03:35 PM
That really confuses me. She admits leaving it unlocked? Why of all nights when her husband first night job decides to leave a door unlocked?
Makes no sense.
I live in a very small neighborhood(very safe) and my husband works 3-11pm-the first thing I do when he leaves is lock the door and I do not have any children living with me,but if I did-this would be a no-brainer!!! but thats me!!I read a lot of scary stories..you have to lock your doors and windows now a days!!!!
In da Middle
10-07-2011, 03:36 PM
From your quote:
Notice the time. I don't want to think that baby Lisa was in there.
Dunno, but I think it fits perfectly timewise....
EGirl
10-07-2011, 03:36 PM
In the timeline, Mom put Lisa down to sleep with a bottle at 7:30 and it sounds like it was a 'WE' situation w/ Dad? Then she supposedly checked her at 10:30 when she went to bed (would be alone w/ Dad at work).
I, as a mom (probably an overprotective mom) would be touching baby, checking bottle, diaper etc at that time. None of that was mentioned ... what if she wasn't breathing at that time (she had a cough/cold etc so possible medication????) and mom didn't notice, wakes up at 2 wondering why she hasn't heard her cry yet .. because to me, 7:30 -2 is a long time without hearing a baby make any noise ...
My other 'thought' is mom is protecting a sibling for an accident...
The house does seem like a 'staging' to me. I'd notice lights on at 2 in the morning... heck, i notice if my 19 yr old gets up to use the bathroom in the middle of the night and is home for a weekend. I don't think she could have slept thru someone coming in, turning lights on, taking baby, and going back out. Just doesn't sit right with me. Sorry.
MOO
This has been my thought too.....
BetteDavisEyes
10-07-2011, 03:36 PM
Multiple threads. Many posts. I know that the baby was "sick", but is there additional information about this? A cold? Something else? Had Lisa been to the doctor? Medication? Prescription or OTC? Right now, I'm leaning towards an accidental overdose of something that was given to the sick child. Perhaps Lisa had been particularly fussy earlier in the evening, mother was feeling stressed and tired, and just wanted Lisa to go to sleep. jmo
Blue Ridge
10-07-2011, 03:37 PM
If I was wanting to get rid of a cell phone (or even just a sim card) AND had the knowledge that there was going to be a child reported missing (which often leads to trash/landfill searches), I think I'd be more likely to toss it in the woods way far away somewhere from the scene, before putting it in a close-by dumpster.... :waitasec:
CN2Souls
10-07-2011, 03:37 PM
Now missing are, Baby, 3 phones, and random neighborhood dog?
Marah
10-07-2011, 03:38 PM
Going to talk about it on Fox after commercials...
KindraLore
10-07-2011, 03:38 PM
Oh the facebook page for this child, there is someone on the thread claiming to be a relative. States his sister is Debbie's mother. His sister is named Lisa and the child was named after her. Seems she died under mysterious circumstances... If Im not supposed to post this, delete it and I apologize...
In da Middle
10-07-2011, 03:38 PM
I wonder if the parents know anyone that lives in that apartment building?
It would be hard to imagine that they don't. Depending on which side of N Brighton it is on, the kids go to school together. It is also one of the ways out of the subdivision.
Curious Me
10-07-2011, 03:39 PM
Mother said this is the 1st time she had not locked the door.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-parents-upset-police-tough-tactics/story?id=14688581&page=2
And it was the first time the father worked at night?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-parents-upset-police-tough-tactics/story?id=14688581&page=2
"Irwin said that this was the first night he had ever worked the overnight shift and Bradley said it was the first night she had ever left the door unlocked."
miabellamoure
10-07-2011, 03:39 PM
Did I read in one of the articles that along with the three cell phones, a cable box is missing?
Three cell phones, a cable box, and a baby... That makes no sense whatsoever.
i believe that was mentioned in a post by someone who said they (the poster) had had a burglary where they even took the cable box...?
swanniee11
10-07-2011, 03:39 PM
I do not understand how the mom could have "pocket dialed" the cell phone at 2:30 am when she says that she was asleep and the phones were on the kitchen counter. If the cell phone was used then it wasnt on the counter and maybe the mom wasnt sleeping.
FWIW- my cellphone has a lock on it that I have to hit a button before I can text or make a call because of the "pocket calling" it's very annoying but i've received calls from people that way so I guess its a good thing to have. You cant get around that either. It's not an option. We don't know what kind of phone she may have.
raeann
10-07-2011, 03:40 PM
I wonder if the parents know anyone that lives in that apartment building?
If you do a google map tour....it is very close. The street, NE 37th, appears to end at a T intersection requiring a turn either right or left onto Lister. The apartments are more like a kind of townhouse design. There are multiple dumpsters, no security gate (apartments are on both sides of the street), and there do not appear to be any security cameras. It looks as if you might use this street as a primary way to access the Lister street neighborhood on a regular basis.
jmo
CarrieBean
10-07-2011, 03:40 PM
Guessing : baby's clothing ? maybe a baby blanket ? baby bottle ? something that would have been taken along with a 10 month old baby ? the cell phones ?
IMO and from "my experience" a "dumpster fire" is not that common -- I have dealt with "dumpsters" for years in my work ... I don't ever recall anything close to a fire.
But people do dump some "unbelievable things" in and around dumpsters ...
moo ...
Dumpster fires are fairly common around here where I live. Not sure if it's just punks having "fun" or what.
ETA: But yeah, I think they must be looking more closely for baby clothes, etc.
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 03:40 PM
http://g.co/maps/9m2qf
dumpster fire location added to map
Mirage
10-07-2011, 03:40 PM
This revelation kinda makes me lean to parental involvement. How would a random stranger get this lucky????? Too many lucky coincidences for me...
You could well be right. However, I awakened one night to hear my front doorknob being jiggled repeatedly. I was sooo terrified I could almost hear my own heart beating in my chest. I peeked out a side window and could not see any cars parked in my drive or out on the street... nothing. Then I was able to detect from a street-light a shadowy figure walking away. Had I somehow accidently left my door unlocked that night, well... you get my drift.
I also think the dumpster on fire, if it is connected, points to an abductor... take the baby, do your dirty deed and get rid of them. Isn't this what the neighbor in the Breeana case did? Isn't this those perv's MO?
matou
10-07-2011, 03:40 PM
What is a cable box? Is it valuable? Why would someone take one?
chieftess
10-07-2011, 03:41 PM
Yes, and most wives that I know are a bit nervous when they know they are home alone without a male adult in the house, and they would actually double-lock doors and windows if they could and secure the house before bed. Strange that the door was always locked before but on the one night when you are 'alone' without your husband home, you say, "ah, I don't feel like locking the door tonight". That's all I would think about -- was the unlocked door -- and I'd have to get up to lock it. But I'm a nervous Nelly.
I am the same way! Hubby has had to work nights a few times. Those are the nights I am most vigilant about checking the locks on doors and windows. And, while the phone is normally in the kitchen, I would always make sure the cordless was right on the nightstand within reach.
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 03:41 PM
Hey BeanE I never heard about the cable box! if so, that even makes it more strange! Did you recall where you read that by any chance?
Shelby1
10-07-2011, 03:43 PM
Sorry if this has been covered earlier, but does this family have two cars? Could Mom have taken off while the boys slept? Or would she have had to walk? Like to an apartment complex close by.
LE searched a car and a van early on. The van is the dad's that he would take to work, so, I assume the car would be accessible to the mom.
BeanE
10-07-2011, 03:44 PM
Hey BeanE I never heard about the cable box! if so, that even makes it more strange! Did you recall where you read that by any chance?
I thought in one of the abc news articles, but I'm not finding it, and someone posted that it was something a member had posted, so I dunno.
elepher50
10-07-2011, 03:44 PM
Now missing are, Baby, 3 phones, and random neighborhood dog?
Don't take your eyes off the thread for a second CN2Souls or something else will turn up missing ...... you are simply killing me ..........:floorlaugh:
DEPUTYDAWG
10-07-2011, 03:44 PM
I've only seen snippets of this case, haven't followed it closely the last few days. Only comments:
- thought the mom's initial TV appearances showed sincere and appropriate tears, crying and pleas...it seemed real to me
- immediate!!! hinky meter went off when I heard the news about 3 cell phones missing. What???? No, that's very unusual
- talk of polygraph results...while not admissable, we have a polygrapher here in our office. We see them all the time...I believe they can be very reliable. We do use it as a tool frequently. I'm basically a believer in them. So, that she failed...and maybe even "failed miserably" really concerns me.
I think I'm off the fence. I know it's early.
Prayers to Baby Lisa and I hope her whereabouts are known soon.
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 03:45 PM
http://g.co/maps/c4785
I put the river on the map just so people can see how close it is... (someone asked upstream where it was) hope this helps
Yes, and most wives that I know are a bit nervous when they know they are home alone without a male adult in the house, and they would actually double-lock doors and windows if they could and secure the house before bed. Strange that the door was always locked before but on the one night when you are 'alone' without your husband home, you say, "ah, I don't feel like locking the door tonight". That's all I would think about -- was the unlocked door -- and I'd have to get up to lock it. But I'm a nervous Nelly. This is me...married, mom of 3. I'm always the one to lock and check doors. If my husband isn't home, I hear more creaks and snaps (not just my knees!) and sounds around and triple check things.
After being a member of WS, though? I realize I'm so much more aware of my surroundings. And I have always been a careful mom.
I need an "I digress" emoticon.
SleuthyMama
10-07-2011, 03:46 PM
What is a cable box? Is it valuable? Why would someone take one?
Can't figure why one would take it but I have Time Warner cable and have a cable box. It's necessary for us to get more channels than just the basic cbs, nbc, abc. I suppose there is value to it if one were to sell it, but you would still need service thru cable company so maybe not.
Not at all clear to me why one would take it, Matou.
Cazzie
10-07-2011, 03:46 PM
JMO and speculation, but I think the repeated searches of multiple locations (woods, home, dumpster, landfill) is LE looking for things that may have been left there *after* they were known to be already searched (or presumed to be safe after x period of time).
Just a thought...
Even tho I know LE may come back with dogs or different dogs, more personnel to do grid search, etc..
ETA: It seems clear to me that LE is building a rock-solid case against someone(s)...they know who the perp(s) is and are not "just" doing investigative work....JMO...I'm new at this stuff...JMO...
meowmo
10-07-2011, 03:46 PM
What is a cable box? Is it valuable? Why would someone take one?
It's a receiver that everyone had to get when we switched over to DTV a couple of years ago. No, it's not valuable at all. But then again, neither are cell phones.
I think I'm gonna go ahead and jump off the fence. I'm starting to smell what Mommy stepped in and I don't like it.
Shelby1
10-07-2011, 03:47 PM
Lisa Irwin Timeline
Monday October 3, 2011
Abducted by intruder through bedroom window. Far right window of house.
UPDATE—according to police spokesman window may not be correct.
3620 block of North Lister 64117
CORRECTION TO ABOVE GIVEN BY JEREMY IN PHONE INTERVIEW 10-6-2011
Lisa in bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie in bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room. Point of entry by abductor was unlocked front door, window mentioned earlier was NOT tampered with.
UPDATE 10-6-11 3 cell phones also taken. One does not even work. Also, dad came home to find front door unlocked, most of the lights on and front window open.
Jeremy Irwin, Lisa’s father, told local media that whoever took his daughter also took all three of their cell phones so they couldn’t call anybody, including 911.
Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG)
~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them
~phones were gone
~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.
~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard
~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know
(thank you NBM)
__________________________________________________ ___________________
Other two sons asleep in different bedrooms. (sons are half brothers to Lisa-the 6 year old is Debbie’s and the 8 year old is Jeremy’s from previous relationships.)—Correction. One son—the 6 year old was asleep with the mom and a stray kitten he had found earlier in the day.
Father is electrician that works nights. This night was the first night he EVER worked at night.—Jeremy http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/miss...olice-14688735 (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisa-irwins-parents-stop-cooperating-police-14688735)
Mother is a SAHM--Debbie
Monday October 3, 2011 10:00 p.m. Last seen in crib wearing purple shorts and purple shirt with white kittens on it.
**Possibly seen by Mr. Parscale (a man that lives in the area) according to his wife Lisa around 12:00 a.m. Tuesday wearing only a diaper being carried by a male. Quote from Lisa--“He seen the guy act like he was going to go into a residence,” Parscale said, “but then my husband drove off so we’re thinking that maybe he was just doing that so that my husband would leave.”
**Parscale says her husband saw the man walking on a street perpendicular to North Lister, where Lisa Irwin lives with her parents and brothers.
Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib.
UPDATE at 2:00 p.m. October 4 presser Capt. Steve Young speaking—Parents’ story has no holes. Looking into neighbor that possibly saw Lisa being carried by the male. No suspects other than neighbor sighting.
Tuesday October 4, 2011 approx. 7:00 p.m. amber alert cancelled. Lisa is considered a MISSING/ENDANGERED JUVENILE. Per police the alert has served it’s purpose. Police and dogs will search for a while into the night.
*** Tuesday night authorities searched a van and car at the home. There is no word on what police found or were looking for. Officers searching for the child focused on areas near the family's home such as railroad tracks near the north side of the Missouri River and a wooded area behind the home. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-authorities-continue-search-for-missing-baby-20111005,0,6273053.story
Tuesday 9:25 p.m.
Mass exodus of police from the command center. Looks like K-9's are finished searching for the night. Police search will continue in AM
by cliffjudy via twitter (http://twitter.com/CliffJudy/status/121410556468015104) 9:25 P
**family stayed with relatives after being questioned until 10:30 p.m.
Wednesday October 5, 2011
9:00 a.m. press conference Capt. Steve Young speaking—basically no new information. Still searching with dogs, however there have been no hits. Parents not ruled out, but also not suspects. Very cooperative.
** KMBC's Jana Corrie: Children who were also inside the home at the time of the disappearance staying with neighbors
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv)
**conflicting reports…unless the Grandparents are being referred to as “neighbors”
NBC Action News reporter Sloane Heller reports Lisa’s grandparents are watching the couple’s other children and have not been able to reach them since earlier Tuesday.
Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz (http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz)
Next news conference sometime this afternoon.
2:00 news conference—Jeremy spoke with Deborah (Bradley?) by his side. Begged for baby to be dropped off somewhere safe. The brothers are waiting to see their sister. Declined to take questions.
Again, Capt. Has no leads, not ruling out anything. 300 knocks and searches. 46 tips. No ransom note. Family is free to go where they would like. Family does not want to be at house.
**Alleged sighting of Lisa with a middle aged white male and female at a Love’s gas station in St. Joseph, MO I-29 and US HWY 169. Driving older model SUV. Article came out around 5:15 p.m. Surveillance video has been turned over to LE. Police say it doesn’t seem to be a major lead.
Thursday October 6, 2011
**Jeremy and Debbie provided LE with a list of 9 names of people that could be possible suspects.
**Per Debbie regarding cell phones and possible other missing items:
~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them
~phones were gone
~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.
~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard
~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know
(thank you NBM)
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old
** police detectives are meeting early this morning to talk about where to search next.
**per Debbie, “Lisa is very sweet and will go to almost anybody.”
**per Jeremy, window was not tampered with, so perp (s) must have come in through unlocked front door.
**Lisa went to bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie went to bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room.
***Debbie and Jeremy have a heated discussion with LE before speeding off in police car to command center to find out about possible new lead. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lisa-irwin-parents-have-heated-discussion-with-police-20111006,0,5671503.story
**the list of suspects provided by the parents is now up to 12.
Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4 (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4)
Originally Posted by BeanE file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Melissa/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif--thank you BeanE
Capt. Young: "There is no doubt they informed us that they no longer wish to cooperate with the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:05 PM
Capt. Young: "We have no plans to close the command center yet, but it will close at some point."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:04 PM
Capt. Young: "I don't have to illustrate how their lack of cooperation hurts the investigation."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM
Capt. Young: "I cannot get into the details of the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM
Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM
Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspect. If we had enough to charge anyone with, we'd probably be pursuing charges."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM
Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspects. From an investigative standpoint we've enjoyed their cooperation"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM
Capt. Young": The parents have intimate information as to what's been going on...our door is open and it doesn't help that they are no longer cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM
Capt. Young: "They've always been free and cooperative up until this point, but they've decided to stop cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM
Capt. Steve Young: Mother and father of baby Lisa Irwin have stopped cooperating with police
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1a39rwETg (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a39rwETg)
"This evening we will be shutting down the command post. We believe we have done all we can regarding geographic searches and will continue tracking leads as we get them or develop additional information," police Officer Darin Snapp said in a news release.
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG)
Family statement: We saw the press conference at 7 PM, and we want you to know we have never stopped cooperating with police.
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 9:11 PM
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3m5ocP3 (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3m5ocP3)
Friday October 7, 2011
(thank you BeanE for gathering these)
#LisaIrwin's mom:We want to thank everybody who has helped us so far.
1 minute ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: we are not angry, we just want our daughter home, that's all we care about.
2 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: we appreciate everything the police dept. has done, we appreciate everything everybody has done.
2 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin mom: we don't know, which is why we need everybody to continue to look for her...because we want her home, we can't do this alone
21 seconds ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: "he's a good father and he's good to me and he loves her and everybody loves her, but no, there's no way." (about father)
38 seconds ago
#LisaIrwin's dad: hasn't taken polygraph but "if that's what it takes..."
3 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: "what do you say when someone tells you that and you know you didn't do anything."
4 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: volunteered to take polygraph, told failed. Says that's not possible.
4 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: We don't care what anybody thinks, we don't care what they think, our concern is to find Lisa, our Lisa.
5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
#LisaIrwin's Mom: don't have hard feelings, not mad, this is what they (police) have to do.
5 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's Mom: police really nice yesterday, not like that the first time.
6 minutes ago
**Debbie failed LDT. Jeremy has offered, but LE said it’s not necessary.
Floor plan of Debbie and Jeremy’s home (thank you Carriebean)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19070&d=1317999122
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Melissa/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image003.jpg
**a neighbor in the area also had her dog come up missing the same night. (maybe related, maybe not)
http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml
**FBI cleared all the people that Jeremy and Debbie mentioned as possible suspects.
PER FOX NEWS REPORT AT 12:00 P.M.
***Call made from Irwin home at 2:30 a.m.
**Debbie failed the LDT “MISERABLY”
** Jeremy at work constructing a new Starbucks (company? All Current Electric)
**Per the great grandfather (see the end of the following video at the 1:16 mark)
The GGFather then says "they are supposed to...with their lawyer offer some kind of statement to the press at a later time...(-00:19)
Then the reporter then says "...as you just heard, the couple has now hired a lawyer .....
http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/1276...er-Cooperating (http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/12764007-7d2d-443f-8d1c-cd907f7fac1b/News/Police-Family-of-Missing-Baby-No-Longer-Cooperating)
Thank you to Hazel for finding this!
***ANONYMOUS TIP—LE searching Shawnee Kansas landfill.
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/Tip-Johnson-County-landfill-search-tied-to-Lisa-Irwin-case#ixzz1a7YeLYOn
**FBI: This is the second time they've searched the JOCO landfill. The first was Tuesday - hours after #LisaIrwin was reported missing.
10 minutes ago
**Searching landfill----possible connection to a dumpster fire at 4897 NE 37 st at 2:27 a.m. Tuesday, October 4. Dumpster less than ½ mile from Irwin home. Trash from fire been examined twice. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-police-search-landfill-police-scour-landfill-in-search-of-baby-lisa-20111007,0,5538504.story
mrye4709
10-07-2011, 03:47 PM
Last post in the last thread has a link to a news article saying it was the first time Mom didn't lock the door. :(
Maybe the first time she didn't and something bad happened. I just don't know, but I still don't think the parents did this.
Where is the info coming from that is being leaked and then denied? I know it sounds soap opera'ish (new word, lol), but if someone wanted to get back at these parents for something then this would be worse than killing them. Take their baby, make it look like they are guilty then play little games with the LE and the parents to pit one against the other and then the new tip to look in the landfill.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think the parents are guilty.
Custody battles with the other kids? I'll show you how it feels to lose your child? IDK
CN2Souls
10-07-2011, 03:47 PM
http://g.co/maps/c4785
I put the river on the map just so people can see how close it is... (someone asked upstream where it was) hope this helps
RB&UBM
:giggle: = :hug:
raeann
10-07-2011, 03:48 PM
Guessing : baby's clothing ? maybe a baby blanket ? baby bottle ? something that would have been taken along with a 10 month old baby ? the cell phones ?
IMO and from "my experience" a "dumpster fire" is not that common -- I have dealt with "dumpsters" for years in my work ... I don't ever recall anything close to a fire.
But people do dump some "unbelievable things" in and around dumpsters ...
moo ...
They are actually quite common at apartment complexes.....people dump car ashtrays, or toss in a lit cigarette butt, or dump their BBQ grill ashes, etc.
FWIW....it is even one of those 'urban expressions' things, meaning a disaster or huge mess no one wants to deal with, etc.
jmo
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 03:48 PM
FBI agents searched a 20-to- 30-acre section of the landfill, but came away with nothing. KMBC's Peggy Breit reported that the FBI told landfill executives that they were searching for a body.
Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/news/29419762/detail.html#ixzz1a7zhfQg6
---------------
miabellamoure
10-07-2011, 03:49 PM
Lisa Irwin Timeline
[B][U]Thursday October 6, 2011
**Jeremy and Debbie provided LE with a list of 9 names of people that could be possible suspects.
**Per Debbie regarding cell phones and possible other missing items:
~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them
~phones were gone
~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.
~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard
~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know
(thank you NBM)
shortened post & bbm
Alrighty now...is it odd only to me that these parents could think of not only one person let alone...NINE persons who could know about their child's disappearance???
CarrieBean
10-07-2011, 03:49 PM
A cable box? Around here when you get your cable hooked up they want the serial number from the box. They immediately know if it was reported stolen, or if money is owed on an account it was used for.
AnaTeresa
10-07-2011, 03:50 PM
Guessing : baby's clothing ? maybe a baby blanket ? baby bottle ? something that would have been taken along with a 10 month old baby ? the cell phones ?
IMO and from "my experience" a "dumpster fire" is not that common -- I have dealt with "dumpsters" for years in my work ... I don't ever recall anything close to a fire.
But people do dump some "unbelievable things" in and around dumpsters ...
moo ...
When I was in high school, we had a rash of them where teenagers were throwing homemade firework-type things into dumpsters for kicks. You're right though, generally these are rare and almost always intentionally set.
matou
10-07-2011, 03:50 PM
Can't figure why one would take it but I have Time Warner cable and have a cable box. It's necessary for us to get more channels than just the basic cbs, nbc, abc. I suppose there is value to it if one were to sell it, but you would still need service thru cable company so maybe not.
Not at all clear to me why one would take it, Matou.
Thanks! I wasn't sure if it had to do with electrician tools since the dad is an electrician.
Cortne
10-07-2011, 03:51 PM
I believe the cable box comment was from the last thread when a poster was speaking about a different case.
Mojen
10-07-2011, 03:52 PM
When I was in high school, we had a rash of them where teenagers were throwing homemade firework-type things into dumpsters for kicks. You're right though, generally these are rare and almost always intentionally set.
We had a man in my town commit suicide by jumping in a dumpster, pouring gas on himself and lighting himself on fire.
mysteriew
10-07-2011, 03:52 PM
can anybody tell me where the timeline is posted so I can catch up?
Kakidoll
10-07-2011, 03:52 PM
I hope she was kidnapped... by a loving family that takes care of her or returns her like the story a couple weeks ago. That is better than what i'm thinking now.
The river is just TOOO close for comfort for me. and if i recall, that river flows pretty fast... even at this time of year. i don't want to think that way... but i think someone mentioned its only 4 blocks away... Easy walking distance with a 10 month old.
MOO
CarrieBean
10-07-2011, 03:52 PM
can anybody tell me where the timeline is posted so I can catch up?
the page before this one
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO Amber Alert: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 october 2011 #6
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 03:53 PM
A relative of Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley, the parents of the missing Kansas City baby, said the family is hoping a tip from California pays off.
Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/news/29420106/detail.html#ixzz1a80tBH6v
------
also has the "itty bitty mistakes in the timelines" quote toward the end
CN2Souls
10-07-2011, 03:53 PM
You Know,
The more and more odd things come out....
If it wasn't the Parents/Parent....
I would think it was someone young with a female companion with them, and not real smart....
Baby, 3 cell phone, a random dog.
matou
10-07-2011, 03:53 PM
I noticed that someone is posting the highlights in the tags section at the bottom of the page. It will have the post # in the tag. Thank you!!! xo
darnudes
10-07-2011, 03:53 PM
You know if it turns out the little girl is dead and it's allegedly an accident a bill should be passed immediately raising the prison time to 20+yrs for hiding a body because this seems to be an epidemic now - that's if it pans out this way.
gwenabob
10-07-2011, 03:53 PM
I thought in one of the abc news articles, but I'm not finding it, and someone posted that it was something a member had posted, so I dunno.
It was from a poster earlier today. The cable box was her own experience and has nothing to do with this case.
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 03:53 PM
We had a man in my town commit suicide by jumping in a dumpster, pouring gas on himself and lighting himself on fire.
:eek:
meowmo
10-07-2011, 03:54 PM
Local coverage here in MO is overwhelming. This is EVERYONE'S top story today -- TV, newspapers, even local radio DJ's are talking about it. It doesn't make sense that the parents wouldn't want to capitalize on that, as someone else said upthread. I mean, let's be real, this is the midwest, not a lot happens. OF COURSE the local media is going to be all over this, with or without the parents. So why wouldn't you make the obvious choice and shove your child's photo at every available camera?
AnaTeresa
10-07-2011, 03:55 PM
shortened post & bbm
Alrighty now...is it odd only to me that these parents could think of not only one person let alone...NINE persons who could know about their child's disappearance???
This has been discussed a lot on the previous threads - posters seem to be split. Some seem to find it hinky, as you did. Others pointed out that they weren't necessarily naming suspects, but anyone who could have come in contact, showed interest in Lisa, behaved oddly, might have a grudge against the family, etc.
smeck
10-07-2011, 03:56 PM
It was from a poster earlier today. The cable box was her own experience and has nothing to do with this case.
Hoping that everyone sees this so we can shut that rumor/mistake down right now. I hate the way things get carried on from page to page that are not correct.
dog.gone.cute
10-07-2011, 03:57 PM
Dumpster fires are fairly common around here where I live. Not sure if it's just punks having "fun" or what.
ETA: But yeah, I think they must be looking more closely for baby clothes, etc.
BBM: Thank You -- I was wondering about that ... so "dumpster fires" are common in your area ... :waitasec: and maybe in some other areas. In the past 14 years of dealing with dumpsters, I have never had a "fire" to deal with ... dealt with other crazy things like people just throwing their toilets, etc. in there ...
IMO ... I think something is going to "break" real soon in this case ... I just get that feeling ...
I hope they find Baby Lisa alive and SOON !
MOO ...
BetteDavisEyes
10-07-2011, 03:57 PM
Dumpster fires are a typical Halloween prank in these parts: A little early for that, methinks. Charcoals from a grill that haven't cooled off enough can easily ignite a dumpster fire.
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 03:57 PM
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/Tip-Johnson-County-landfill-search-tied-to-Lisa-Irwin-case
Mojen
10-07-2011, 03:58 PM
:eek:
You used to live around here, right?
http://www.kmbc.com/news/28962097/detail.html
CRAZY!
Mandy113
10-07-2011, 03:58 PM
A bit off topic....
When I was 4, my mother came home from working 2nd shift at a factory and discovered my 1 yr old brother dead in his crib. The ambulance was called and naturally the police were present too at some point. My father and older children were also present in the home. While very sudden, his death turned out to be from natural causes.
When I was 12, my oldest brother and his wife were living with us in my parent's home. When they're baby was 1 mo old, they discovered him dead in his crib early one morning. It was determined to be a case of SIDS. The ambulance & police were called. The police had to question everyone as several family members were still living in the house.
These were simply two tragic instances of babies dying suddenly in my own family. There was no thought to trying to cover anything up. Both times, the calls for emergency help were made. I just can't come up with any reasonable explanation in which a baby could suddenly die, whether by accident or natural causes, when a person would not call 911.
JMHO
miabellamoure
10-07-2011, 03:58 PM
This has been discussed a lot on the previous threads - posters seem to be split. Some seem to find it hinky, as you did. Others pointed out that they weren't necessarily naming suspects, but anyone who could have come in contact, showed interest in Lisa, behaved oddly, might have a grudge against the family, etc.
Even so...nine, really? If my child went missing from her crib and I was asked to compile a list of anyone who might know or have something to do with my child being missing? I'd be at a loss to even come up with one name...but, that's just me, I guess.
Coldpizza
10-07-2011, 04:00 PM
Can't figure why one would take it but I have Time Warner cable and have a cable box. It's necessary for us to get more channels than just the basic cbs, nbc, abc. I suppose there is value to it if one were to sell it, but you would still need service thru cable company so maybe not.
Not at all clear to me why one would take it, Matou.
A few years ago our Sat box was hooked up and thru the phone line. Thats how they wanted it installed but not necessary. Also if we wanted to order a movie
(PG) of course lol it had to be run thru the phone line.
My point is it also would record somehow and show#'s that were called in right there on the screen!!!!
I'm not kidding. DH would know more about it but he's not home. I'll ask later if it even matters then.
elepher50
10-07-2011, 04:00 PM
Jeremy Irwin's sister, Ashley Irwin, posted on her Facebook page Friday that a prayer vigil will be held Friday night at 7 p.m. Penguin Park, at the corner of Vivion Road and Norton in Kansas City's Northland.
Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/Tip-Johnson-County-landfill-search-tied-to-Lisa-Irwin-case#ixzz1a7zsFlzI
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/Tip-Johnson-County-landfill-search-tied-to-Lisa-Irwin-case
tiredblondy
10-07-2011, 04:00 PM
can anybody tell me where the timeline is posted so I can catch up?
Back 2 pages...
SyraKelly
10-07-2011, 04:00 PM
IF and I say IF- the mother did something to Lisa or something happened accidently..she would probably put her somewhere close with a special blankie or toy..most of these cases the child is found close by..I can not imagine her being gone long with 2 other children at home or in a car-just thinking out loud!But I put money on Lisa is found close by!!! JMO
Cortne
10-07-2011, 04:00 PM
Many hugs to you Mandy!!
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/Tip-Johnson-County-landfill-search-tied-to-Lisa-Irwin-case
prayer vigil tonight? where is Penguin Park?
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 04:01 PM
Kansas City police and FBI agents began combing through the Johnson County landfill known officially as Deffenbaugh Industries.
"We were out there searching the landfill today," Bridget Patton, spokeswoman for the FBI's Kansas City Division, told ABCNews.com.
When asked if the search was related to the disappearance of 10-month-old Lisa Irwin, Patton said, "Yeah, it's related to that."
Patton said this was the second time this week the FBI has searched the landfill.
Earlier today, Lisa's mother said that police accused her of having done something to her child.
"From the start when they've questioned me, once I couldn't fill in gaps, it turned into 'You did it, you did it,'" Deborah Bradley told "Good Morning America."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-fbi-searches-landfill/story?id=14688581
adama
10-07-2011, 04:01 PM
Such a small thing but I thought it was really interesting that the father says the front door was unlocked when he got home. How would he know this? Most people coming home at that time of night wouldn't just try the door handle to see if it was open, especially if it's normally locked. And if you put your key in the door, could you say with absolute certainty that the lock hadn't turned over?
Again, I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation for this, and maybe the door was slightly opened (though I only heard "unlocked").
In da Middle
10-07-2011, 04:02 PM
When I was in high school, we had a rash of them where teenagers were throwing homemade firework-type things into dumpsters for kicks. You're right though, generally these are rare and almost always intentionally set.
Yeah, that happens there too, but there is just getting to be too many 'convenient' things happening for this to happen. Waaaaay too many..
Still not completely convinced of parental involvement, but in no way was this a random act IMO.
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 04:02 PM
You used to live around here, right?
http://www.kmbc.com/news/28962097/detail.html
CRAZY!
yes, we were stationed at Leavenworth... we just had all the ghosts and the prisoners in my neck of the woods!
wfgodot
10-07-2011, 04:02 PM
Hello adama, and welcome to WS.
Just-a-Guy
10-07-2011, 04:03 PM
We had a man in my town commit suicide by jumping in a dumpster, pouring gas on himself and lighting himself on fire.
...Well. At least no one could say he wasn't creative.
meowmo
10-07-2011, 04:03 PM
I just can't come up with any reasonable explanation in which a baby could suddenly die, whether by accident or natural causes, when a person would not call 911.
JMHO
If that person's name is Casey Anthony. :deadhorse::hoppingmad:
Ok, I'm done. But I am starting to get the vibe that perhaps mommy took a page out of ol' FCA's book. :furious:
CN2Souls
10-07-2011, 04:04 PM
Yeah, that happens there too, but there is just getting to be too many 'convenient' things happening for this to happen. Waaaaay too many..
Still not completely convinced of parental involvement, but in no way was this a random act IMO.
In-da-Middle, Is there really a random dog missing from the neighborhood that you know of...?:waitasec:
matou
10-07-2011, 04:05 PM
Such a small thing but I thought it was really interesting that the father says the front door was unlocked when he got home. How would he know this? Most people coming home at that time of night wouldn't just try the door handle to see if it was open, especially if it's normally locked. And if you put your key in the door, could you say with absolute certainty that the lock hadn't turned over?
Again, I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation for this, and maybe the door was slightly opened (though I only heard "unlocked").
Wow, good point. I would just put my key in the door without thinking about it and would assume that I did something wrong if the door didn't open up. Hmmmmm
elepher50
10-07-2011, 04:05 PM
Such a small thing but I thought it was really interesting that the father says the front door was unlocked when he got home. How would he know this? Most people coming home at that time of night wouldn't just try the door handle to see if it was open, especially if it's normally locked. And if you put your key in the door, could you say with absolute certainty that the lock hadn't turned over?
Again, I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation for this, and maybe the door was slightly opened (though I only heard "unlocked").
Welcome to WS and thanks for joining in on the discussion. I can tell by the way my key turns in my deadbolt if the door was locked or not. JI has lived in the house since about 2002 and probably has a good feel for the front door lock.
My comments on the locks: If you buy a house change the locks = one of the first things you do. If you have lent out a key to anybody, change the locks after you get the key back. Maybe I am anal but I have 3 kids to protect.
Welcome once again.
MaciBean
10-07-2011, 04:05 PM
From KMBC's Mike Mahoney: A relative of Jeremy Irwin and Deb Bradley, the parents of the missing Kansas City baby, say they are hoping a tip from California pays off. Mike Lerette told KMBC's Micheal Mahoney the FBI may be looking at some surveillance video shown a couple in California with a very young child. He would not elaborate.
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a81Jr7vO
AnaTeresa
10-07-2011, 04:05 PM
Even so...nine, really? If my child went missing from her crib and I was asked to compile a list of anyone who might know or have something to do with my child being missing? I'd be at a loss to even come up with one name...but, that's just me, I guess.
Well, it depends on how broadly the question was phrased. It's been reported as persons who may have something to do with the child being missing. It's more likely that LE has asked: who has been around your house recently? has anyone shown an interest in Lisa specifically? have you had any fights with anyone recently? has anyone changed in behavior recently? In cases like these, it can be the postman, the lady in line at the grocery who followed you home, or even someone in your family who's had a mental break. You may not think they would kidnap your child, but that's for LE to determine, and why LE will ask more broad questions, to find a list of people to investigate. This doesn't make these people suspects, nor do the parents have to believe that these people could have harmed Lisa - they've simply been flagged for review, which is standard procedure in these types of things.
Kimster
10-07-2011, 04:06 PM
Such a small thing but I thought it was really interesting that the father says the front door was unlocked when he got home. How would he know this? Most people coming home at that time of night wouldn't just try the door handle to see if it was open, especially if it's normally locked. And if you put your key in the door, could you say with absolute certainty that the lock hadn't turned over?
Again, I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation for this, and maybe the door was slightly opened (though I only heard "unlocked").
Welcome to Websleuths!
:wagon:
jstwondering
10-07-2011, 04:06 PM
Can't figure why one would take it but I have Time Warner cable and have a cable box. It's necessary for us to get more channels than just the basic cbs, nbc, abc. I suppose there is value to it if one were to sell it, but you would still need service thru cable company so maybe not.
Not at all clear to me why one would take it, Matou.
BBM Oh, and the extra time it would take to unscrew the cable would make it so unworth the trouble. It takes a long time, and very tiny fingers to accomplish that easily. :floorlaugh: IMO
nursebeeme
10-07-2011, 04:06 PM
prayer vigil tonight? where is Penguin Park?
http://g.co/maps/3yb9g
Taminator
10-07-2011, 04:07 PM
Lights on in the house is not really bothering me, (in the event of a stranger abduction, it would be hard to navigate an unknown home in the dark to find a baby) other than to say unless the abductor was wearing gloves, there should definitely be some prints on the light switch. Whether or not the prints would be viable, would be a different story.
I've left my front door unlocked before, thinking that my husband has locked it. Now we usually ask each other "Did you lock the door?" or the person who takes the dog out last thing before bed, locks it up.
The thing I don't get is how the parents know that the abductor took the phones to prevent them from calling 911. The parents would have to assume that the abductor(s) knew they had no other means to call. I assume they have neighbors, it's not like they live in the middle of nowhere.
I hope they are innocent. I really, honestly do. I hope some mentally deficient person took Lisa because they wanted a baby, but it's not looking good.
My main question right now is when was the last time Lisa was seen by anyone other than the parents and the kids?
kantoo
10-07-2011, 04:07 PM
Such a small thing but I thought it was really interesting that the father says the front door was unlocked when he got home. How would he know this? Most people coming home at that time of night wouldn't just try the door handle to see if it was open, especially if it's normally locked. And if you put your key in the door, could you say with absolute certainty that the lock hadn't turned over?
Again, I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation for this, and maybe the door was slightly opened (though I only heard "unlocked").
bbm
yes, i can tell if my door was unlocked when i use the key
CN2Souls
10-07-2011, 04:07 PM
Welcome to WS and thanks for joining in on the discussion. I can tell by the way my key turns in my deadbolt if the door was locked or not. JI has lived in the house since about 2002 and probably has a good feel for the front door lock.
My comments on the locks: If you buy a house change the locks = one of the first things you do. If you have lent out a key to anybody, change the locks after you get the key back. Maybe I am anal but I have 3 kids to protect.
Welcome once again.
Also do not throw way the box you got the new lock in into the trash, it has the key code on it and can be remade any hardware store...
elepher50
10-07-2011, 04:07 PM
Yeah, that happens there too, but there is just getting to be too many 'convenient' things happening for this to happen. Waaaaay too many..
Still not completely convinced of parental involvement, but in no way was this a random act IMO.
MOO is that it was somebody familiar with the surroundings: house/light switches/where the bedrooms were/any outside hidden keys or actually had a key.
I do not believe the parents were involved .... all MOO.
Kimster
10-07-2011, 04:07 PM
From KMBC's Mike Mahoney: A relative of Jeremy Irwin and Deb Bradley, the parents of the missing Kansas City baby, say they are hoping a tip from California pays off. Mike Lerette told KMBC's Micheal Mahoney the FBI may be looking at some surveillance video shown a couple in California with a very young child. He would not elaborate.
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a81Jr7vO
Welcome to Websleuths!
:welcome:
adama
10-07-2011, 04:08 PM
Hello adama, and welcome to WS.
Thank you for the welcoming. Just discovered this site and very interesting to read all of the thoughtful theories and speculation about these unsolved crimes.
BetteDavisEyes
10-07-2011, 04:08 PM
Re: The missing dog. Alfred Hitchcock fans will recall the scene in Rear Window where the little terrier is found dead - his neck broken. Lisa Fremont (Grace Kelly) says, "Why would anyone want to kill a little dog? Because it knew too much?"
Did the "missing dog" know too much? Perhaps the dog barked loudly at whoever took baby Lisa and had to be removed from the scene. Just noodling...
mck16
10-07-2011, 04:09 PM
In-da-Middle, Is there really a random dog missing from the neighborhood that you know of...?:waitasec:
the dog came home.
darnudes
10-07-2011, 04:09 PM
Welcome to WS and thanks for joining in on the discussion. I can tell by the way my key turns in my deadbolt if the door was locked or not. JI has lived in the house since about 2002 and probably has a good feel for the front door lock.
My comments on the locks: If you buy a house change the locks = one of the first things you do. If you have lent out a key to anybody, change the locks after you get the key back. Maybe I am anal but I have 3 kids to protect.
Welcome once again.
I looked after my sister's kids for 2 weeks and the last thing I did every night was check the doors were locked - always. Sounds to me like they were left unlocked on purpose, maybe to throw the husband off? Another bizarre case.
mysteriew
10-07-2011, 04:09 PM
Hard to keep up with the thread so I dont know if this has been mentioned but fox is reporting that a call was made from one of the cell phones that night at 2:30am...
First sign of a lie. Mom says she went to bed at 10:30 pm. She doesn't mention that at 2:30 am she was up making phone calls.
You would think that with a daughter 'missing' and police asking questions and accusing that she would be saying "talk to so and so" I talked to them in the middle of the night. If she was innocent.
In da Middle
10-07-2011, 04:10 PM
prayer vigil tonight? where is Penguin Park?
It's a very popular children's park just north of here on Vivion rd. Named for the big fiberglass penguin slide that is there.
Nana46
10-07-2011, 04:10 PM
This has been discussed a lot on the previous threads - posters seem to be split. Some seem to find it hinky, as you did. Others pointed out that they weren't necessarily naming suspects, but anyone who could have come in contact, showed interest in Lisa, behaved oddly, might have a grudge against the family, etc.
I think if my child was missing I would name any and everybody I could possibly bring to mind even my dog....there just could be no limit to where their minds are going when asked these questions especially with the little baby gone,IMO.
dog.gone.cute
10-07-2011, 04:11 PM
Such a small thing but I thought it was really interesting that the father says the front door was unlocked when he got home. How would he know this? Most people coming home at that time of night wouldn't just try the door handle to see if it was open, especially if it's normally locked. And if you put your key in the door, could you say with absolute certainty that the lock hadn't turned over?
Again, I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation for this, and maybe the door was slightly opened (though I only heard "unlocked").
:wagon::wagon:
Welcome !
mck16
10-07-2011, 04:12 PM
First sign of a lie. Mom says she went to bed at 10:30 pm. She doesn't mention that at 2:30 am she was up making phone calls.
You would think that with a daughter 'missing' and police asking questions and accusing that she would be saying "talk to so and so" I talked to them in the middle of the night. If she was innocent.
How do they know it was her making the call and not the person who took the phones? tia
It's a very popular children's park just north of here on Vivion rd. Named for the big fiberglass penguin slide that is there.
Thanks- so are you going to the vigil tonight? I would love to have your observations!
NCSleuth
10-07-2011, 04:12 PM
How would the intruder know they didn't have a landline?
In da Middle
10-07-2011, 04:12 PM
Such a small thing but I thought it was really interesting that the father says the front door was unlocked when he got home. How would he know this? Most people coming home at that time of night wouldn't just try the door handle to see if it was open, especially if it's normally locked. And if you put your key in the door, could you say with absolute certainty that the lock hadn't turned over?
Again, I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation for this, and maybe the door was slightly opened (though I only heard "unlocked").
This has been bothering me also. I guess if you saw the lights on, you might check the door first.
Marah
10-07-2011, 04:12 PM
praying that baby in CA is her!
curiositycat
10-07-2011, 04:13 PM
First sign of a lie. Mom says she went to bed at 10:30 pm. She doesn't mention that at 2:30 am she was up making phone calls.
You would think that with a daughter 'missing' and police asking questions and accusing that she would be saying "talk to so and so" I talked to them in the middle of the night. If she was innocent.
Exactly! Could she have really just forgotten that? I don't think so. I would love to know who she made that call to.
Coldpizza
10-07-2011, 04:13 PM
Thank you for the welcoming. Just discovered this site and very interesting to read all of the thoughtful theories and speculation about these unsolved crimes.
No turning back now!
Welcome!! alot of great people here with so many resources and knowledge.
In da Middle
10-07-2011, 04:14 PM
In-da-Middle, Is there really a random dog missing from the neighborhood that you know of...?:waitasec:
Not that I am aware of. We do have an occasional 'escapee' (mine included).
AnaTeresa
10-07-2011, 04:14 PM
Such a small thing but I thought it was really interesting that the father says the front door was unlocked when he got home. How would he know this? Most people coming home at that time of night wouldn't just try the door handle to see if it was open, especially if it's normally locked. And if you put your key in the door, could you say with absolute certainty that the lock hadn't turned over?
Again, I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation for this, and maybe the door was slightly opened (though I only heard "unlocked").
Joining in on this - the deadbolt locks at my house, when you slide the key in if it's not locked, the key jiggles a bit and it's very loose. Normally there's a bit of push back when you turn the lock when it's engaged. If it's unlocked, it's loose and easy turning the key. Same for my car lock.
mysteriew
10-07-2011, 04:15 PM
How do they know it was her making the call and not the person who took the phones? tia
Probably from whoever the call was made to.
CN2Souls
10-07-2011, 04:15 PM
If I came home to my house that is usual dark at 3:30 am and all the lights were on I would check the door knob,
(Matter of fact I would probably check the door knob,then kick the door in and says some sort of tough guy line from Dirt Harry movie..)
But that is just me...
DLT88
10-07-2011, 04:16 PM
Wow, good point. I would just put my key in the door without thinking about it and would assume that I did something wrong if the door didn't open up. Hmmmmm
With my old door that has 3 locks, I can tell right away when I put my key in and turn that one or two of them weren't locked because of either the resistance (or lack of it) or the knob turns when I turn my key (and it doesn't when it's locked). (This happens when my stupid landlord goes in to fix something and forgets to lock all 3 of my locks.)
Jacie Estes
10-07-2011, 04:16 PM
prayer vigil tonight? where is Penguin Park?
Good place for a vigil
\http://www.visitkc.com/member-details/index.aspx?id=39307
ADDRESS: N Vivion Rd. & N Norton Ave. Kansas City, MO 64118
Chris_Texas
10-07-2011, 04:16 PM
I can think of only 4 possibilities at the moment:
1) She forgot to lock the door that night. Maybe Jeremy usually locks up and since this was his first night away at the new job, Mom forgot.
2) She is lying about this being the first night it was left unlocked.
3) She left at some point during the night and forgot to lock the door when she came back and she is covering her tracks.
4) She purposely left the door unlocked because she was expecting a guest who didn't have a house key after her husband went to work.
Or... mom failed to relock the door after returning from dumping her child.
Mirage
10-07-2011, 04:17 PM
Regarding the door being unlocked.... the garage area is around the back of the house.. when my dh comes home from work he comes thru the garage doors and upstairs from there. So, maybe he knew the front door was unlocked because he approached it from the inside after deciding something was terribly wrong... and found it unlocked.
BeanE
10-07-2011, 04:17 PM
NBCActionNews NBC Action News
#LisaIrwin update: FBI not saying what, if anything, found at landfill. Nothing seen from aerial video: pub.vitrue.com/Ogx
29 minutes ago
laurafairlie
10-07-2011, 04:17 PM
I've been busy with my own little one for the past 24 hours or so, and I see that I've missed a lot!
I honestly don't know what to think anymore, other than to just pray that despite how it may look that baby Lisa is alive and safe and well cared for and that she will be found soon!
mck16
10-07-2011, 04:18 PM
Probably from whoever the call was made to.
I would think that would be the only way. So someone came forward and said that she had called her at 2:00 a.m. or so, that should tell the LE something. I think there is lots LE is not sharing with the public don't you?
marge_rita
10-07-2011, 04:21 PM
If I came home to my house that is usual dark at 3:30 am and all the lights were on I would check the door knob,
(Matter of fact I would probably check the door knob,then kick the door in and says some sort of tough guy line from Dirt Harry movie..)
But that is just me...
That's what I was thinking too, lol. If I got home at 3-4am and all the lights were on I'd immediately think-what's going on? I'd make a lot of noise and probably call 911 while I went to check on my kids---because of following cases like this.
Did the mom turn all the lights on?
Or is she saying the 'kidnapper' turned the lights on?
Or did dad find the lights on? I'm confusing myself.:waitasec:
imo
liltexans
10-07-2011, 04:21 PM
Or... mom failed to relock the door after returning from dumping her child.
Yes, that's kind of included in my #3. She left during the night and forgot or "forgot" to lock the door when she returned.
mck16
10-07-2011, 04:21 PM
I have seen that the child that was sleeping with her was 5 years old. How old was the other child? It would seem to me that if something had happened at the mother's hands those children would know. Especially if she left the house for any length of time.
What about the father of the boys? Has there been any custody issues or problems between him at the family? tia
gwenabob
10-07-2011, 04:22 PM
Or... mom failed to relock the door after returning from dumping her child.
And further, mom left the door unlocked on purpose to further her kidnapping alibi.
Jacie Estes
10-07-2011, 04:22 PM
yes, we were stationed at Leavenworth... we just had all the ghosts and the prisoners in my neck of the woods!
My dad was stationed there, among other places, when I was a kid.
In da Middle
10-07-2011, 04:23 PM
Thanks- so are you going to the vigil tonight? I would love to have your observations!
I would like to, but have other previously scheduled kid related activities that we can't get out of.
jaeger
10-07-2011, 04:23 PM
Alrighty now...is it odd only to me that these parents could think of not only one person let alone...NINE persons who could know about their child's disappearance???
No, it's not really that odd. They don't ask "who might have kidnapped your baby?" They ask who was very interested in your baby, who do you know who wanted a baby or lost a baby, who knew your schedule, etc.
linda505
10-07-2011, 04:23 PM
Besides Fox news saying that they got this from a source close to LE? Do we have any confirmation of a 2:30 call from LE?
davehead21
10-07-2011, 04:23 PM
Lights on in the house is not really bothering me, (in the event of a stranger abduction, it would be hard to navigate an unknown home in the dark to find a baby) other than to say unless the abductor was wearing gloves, there should definitely be some prints on the light switch. Whether or not the prints would be viable, would be a different story.
I've left my front door unlocked before, thinking that my husband has locked it. Now we usually ask each other "Did you lock the door?" or the person who takes the dog out last thing before bed, locks it up.
The thing I don't get is how the parents know that the abductor took the phones to prevent them from calling 911. The parents would have to assume that the abductor(s) knew they had no other means to call. I assume they have neighbors, it's not like they live in the middle of nowhere.
I hope they are innocent. I really, honestly do. I hope some mentally deficient person took Lisa because they wanted a baby, but it's not looking good.
My main question right now is when was the last time Lisa was seen by anyone other than the parents and the kids?
BBM
It's really a question of semantics. The father could have meant one of two things--
1-- The intruder took the cell phones for the specific purpose of delaying the call to 911.
or
2-- The intruder took the cell phones and because of that the call to 911 was delayed.
heartfortruth
10-07-2011, 04:23 PM
I have read as much as I have had time for but I have missed a lot; it goes so fast and you "youngsters" are hard to keep up with! Going to ask a question that prolly everyone knows the answer to but me; exactly at what point and with what phone and by whom was the 911 call made? TIA
Taminator
10-07-2011, 04:23 PM
I think I'm lost...do they live in a subdivision with the "cookie cutter" houses?
I just do not understand how a parent could hide a body or cover up an accidental death. An accidental death is just that - an accident! What makes someone think that they need to dispose of or hide a body? Why wouldn't someone call 911? I just don't understand. I will never understand that.
In da Middle
10-07-2011, 04:24 PM
How would the intruder know they didn't have a landline?
Just one more reason to believe this was NOT random.
liltexans
10-07-2011, 04:25 PM
I have seen that the child that was sleeping with her was 5 years old. How old was the other child? It would seem to me that if something had happened at the mother's hands those children would know. Especially if she left the house for any length of time.
What about the father of the boys? Has there been any custody issues or problems between him at the family? tia
The younger boy is mom's and the older boy is dad's. I believe I read that one boy is 6 and the other is 8.
dog.gone.cute
10-07-2011, 04:26 PM
Probably from whoever the call was made to.
I would think that would be the only way. So someone came forward and said that she had called her at 2:00 a.m. or so, that should tell the LE something. I think there is lots LE is not sharing with the public don't you?
BBM: I am wondering "who" this call was made to ... any ideas ?
And ... the 3 "missing cell phones" -- has it been confirmed yet WHOSE names those phones were in ? Mother ? Father ? Anyone else's name ?
mysteriew
10-07-2011, 04:26 PM
I would think that would be the only way. So someone came forward and said that she had called her at 2:00 a.m. or so, that should tell the LE something. I think there is lots LE is not sharing with the public don't you?
LE would have gotten the cell account records from the company (probably very early in the case) and if the person didn't come forward to them, they would have went to the person. And one of their questions would have been why didn't you come to us and what are you hiding.
LE always keeps evidence close. What gets out they may respond to. Any evidence that causes a change of direction usually gets out. But they always hold back some.
Also even though we don't know about it, they usually are working in areas we don't know about. For example the cell phones info, or the first landfill search. We didn't know about them until LE felt that the info could further the case (or the info slipped out LOL.)
Katana
10-07-2011, 04:27 PM
I would think that would be the only way. So someone came forward and said that she had called her at 2:00 a.m. or so, that should tell the LE something. I think there is lots LE is not sharing with the public don't you?
Phone records would show activity on the cells. I'm suspecting more than just the one phone call is in question and possibly text messaging. Getting rid of phone doesn't get rid of the record.
BetteDavisEyes
10-07-2011, 04:27 PM
If I came home to my house that is usual dark at 3:30 am and all the lights were on I would check the door knob,
(Matter of fact I would probably check the door knob,then kick the door in and says some sort of tough guy line from Dirt Harry movie..)
But that is just me...
If I could stay awake long enough to come home in the wee hours :D, I wouldn't enter a dark house alone. I'd knock on a neighbors' door or call 9-1-1.
Maybe everyone doesn't do this, but DH and I have timers on lamps in several rooms of our home. At least one room is lighted throughout the night. For sure, if DH worked late shifts, and I would already be asleep, he wouldn't come into a dark house. Different strokes... jmo
Duke Fan4
10-07-2011, 04:27 PM
Does MO have a Caylee's Law?
In da Middle
10-07-2011, 04:28 PM
Or... mom failed to relock the door after returning from dumping her child.
Or she deliberately left it open for the 'story'. Wrong neighborhood IMO for this to work, though. Also, their house is not easily watched incognito and it is very well lit.
krimekat
10-07-2011, 04:28 PM
Such a small thing but I thought it was really interesting that the father says the front door was unlocked when he got home. How would he know this? Most people coming home at that time of night wouldn't just try the door handle to see if it was open, especially if it's normally locked. And if you put your key in the door, could you say with absolute certainty that the lock hadn't turned over?
Again, I'm sure there is a reasonable explanation for this, and maybe the door was slightly opened (though I only heard "unlocked").
I always make sure my door is still locked when I come home from work . . .
wfgodot
10-07-2011, 04:29 PM
Family members "hope to make a statement later this afternoon."
Newish (posted 2:20 p.m. CST) KC Star article covers recent events:
Mother of missing Northland baby says police accused her (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/07/3192902/mother-of-missing-northland-baby.html)
Jacie Estes
10-07-2011, 04:29 PM
How would the intruder know they didn't have a landline?
A 'phone box' outside that had lines into the house, IIRC ours was a grey color and it had the name of the phone company on it. No land lines anymore.
kantoo
10-07-2011, 04:29 PM
Besides Fox news saying that they got this from a source close to LE? Do we have any confirmation of a 2:30 call from LE?
No. When the Captain talked with Fox News earlier, he denied any knowledge of that.
natsound
10-07-2011, 04:30 PM
With my old door that has 3 locks, I can tell right away when I put my key in and turn that one or two of them weren't locked because of either the resistance (or lack of it) or the knob turns when I turn my key (and it doesn't when it's locked). (This happens when my stupid landlord goes in to fix something and forgets to lock all 3 of my locks.)
When I turn my key in my front door (which is rare), I can hear it and feel it unlock. If it weren't locked and I turned my key, I would know it. This statement from the dad doesn't bother me.
krimekat
10-07-2011, 04:30 PM
Does MO have a Caylee's Law?
No, proposals have been made but I know of no State that has implemented Caylee's Law . . . and actually, it is not supported law enforcement here in Missouri.
meowmo
10-07-2011, 04:30 PM
Does MO have a Caylee's Law?
Not yet. Maybe this will help it along.
I got some profoundly unconcerned form letters from the elected officials I wrote to about enacting Caylee's law, if that gives you any idea of the level of interest they have in legislation of that sort. :banghead:
linda505
10-07-2011, 04:31 PM
Phone records would show activity on the cells. I'm suspecting more than just the one phone call is in question and possibly text messaging. Getting rid of phone doesn't get rid of the record.
And that is why I can't see any reason for the mother disposing of the cell phones in order to cover something up. I think that anyone that has a cell phone know the records of incoming/outgoing calls and texts exist. I can sign on to my account online and see a call I made an hour ago and I can go back months. To me making the cell phones disappear would be the last thing I would do IF I USED it during a crime - would make LE look into those records fast. MOO
In da Middle
10-07-2011, 04:31 PM
I think I'm lost...do they live in a subdivision with the "cookie cutter" houses?
Yes! A couple of 'custom' homes, but a little over 100 that consist of approx 5 floorplans.
marge_rita
10-07-2011, 04:31 PM
Family members "hope to make a statement later this afternoon."
Newish (posted 2:20 p.m. CST) KC Star article covers recent events:
Mother of missing Northland baby says police accused her (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/07/3192902/mother-of-missing-northland-baby.html)
Maybe it's me but I think it's a bad thing for parents of a missing baby to go against LE either verbally or by not cooperating.
imo
Lizbetbathory
10-07-2011, 04:32 PM
I wanted to put my 2 cents in about the cell phones. Dad was at work possible has acess to a phone mom's phone is the one that was broke, they buy a new one and with baby being sick needs a phone to call someone ( her mum doc what ever) so keeps dads phone, and is in the process of taking numbers from her old phone to the new one. That is why there were 3 phones.
Her clothes she wore to bed ... or didnt.... When my kids were sick cold flu what ever at that age sometimes they had diaherria, I put them in pants/ shorts to sleep.. it made clean up easier as the poo didnt go everywhere as much. Whether the parental units did it or not... Honestly, does it TRUELY matter? If they did then most probably they will get caught. If they didnt do it then SOMEONE did. This lil one has more people out there then her parents who love her. Arguing over thier guilt when it is unknown is in someways mean. If Lisa grandma and grandpa or aunties and uncles read this they wont like it. Just send prayers she is found whole and ok. If she isnt Pray she is found for her siblings and parents and OTHER loved ones have closure NO MATTER WHO DID IT
Jayarre
10-07-2011, 04:32 PM
A 'phone box' outside that had lines into the house, IIRC ours was a grey color and it had the name of the phone company on it. No land lines anymore.
I no longer have a land line but the box and wire from the pole are still there. ATT never removed them.
natsound
10-07-2011, 04:32 PM
While I don't have a good feel for this case so far, I lean toward the mom as knowing something. Her crying is genuine to me, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have an unpaid debt that someone decided to collect on. She seems to have raised police's suspicions.
I'm a little bothered that dad isn't jumping up and down to take a lie detector test, but my hinky meter isn't rising much when listening to him.
Marah
10-07-2011, 04:33 PM
I am sure if the mom was coming or going during the night some neighbor would have heard or seen something, don't you think? Unless the dad took her (lisa) with when he left for work?
mck16
10-07-2011, 04:33 PM
Phone records would show activity on the cells. I'm suspecting more than just the one phone call is in question and possibly text messaging. Getting rid of phone doesn't get rid of the record.
You are correct and I understand all that, but just because the call was made on her phone does not mean she made it. That was what I was wondering--if they in fact know who placed the call. And I also wondered if they have tried calling the phones to see where they ping. just some questions I had. tia
In da Middle
10-07-2011, 04:34 PM
A 'phone box' outside that had lines into the house, IIRC ours was a grey color and it had the name of the phone company on it. No land lines anymore.
Many houses here still have the grey box, but no landline.
mck16
10-07-2011, 04:35 PM
I am sure if the mom was coming or going during the night some neighbor would have heard or seen something, don't you think? Unless the dad took her (lisa) with when he left for work?
The boys are old enough to know that something was amiss, don't you think? And I am sure they have been questioned. jmo
mysteriew
10-07-2011, 04:35 PM
I have read as much as I have had time for but I have missed a lot; it goes so fast and you "youngsters" are hard to keep up with! Going to ask a question that prolly everyone knows the answer to but me; exactly at what point and with what phone and by whom was the 911 call made? TIA
I've not heard or read anywhere how the 911 call was made. But come to think of it I have also not heard that there was any neighbors present when LE arrived. If someone came to my house and needed to use my phone to call 911, I would probably go back to their house with them. Emotional support as well as finding out more about what was going on. Another little anomaly.
natsound
10-07-2011, 04:36 PM
The missing cell phones bother me A LOT. Mom may not be smart enough to know that police can track her calls without the phone. Why would an intruder take the time to grab all the phones that were sitting, all together on the counter, in the kitchen? He/she would want to grab the baby and take off. The notion that the intruder wanted to prevent mom from making calls is ridiculous. The mom can run next door and bang on the door, and police would be notified. The intruder wouldn't gain any real time by taking the cell phones.
CN2Souls
10-07-2011, 04:37 PM
Or she deliberately left it open for the 'story'. Wrong neighborhood IMO for this to work, though. Also, their house is not easily watched incognito and it is very well lit.
so un-top of the random abductor leaving most of the lights on,
Their house is also really well lit.....
:banghead:
Right,
I can see this scenario,
Abductor: "Hmmmmm, what house should we steal a baby from, how about the one that is really well lit,"
and lets go in the front door, wait,
lets pry open the window on the front of this house first....
wait look they left the front door open for us...
and while we are stealing the baby lets steal the cell phone,
also lets turn on most of the light in the house so we can see
.:banghead:
mysteriew
10-07-2011, 04:39 PM
And that is why I can't see any reason for the mother disposing of the cell phones in order to cover something up. I think that anyone that has a cell phone know the records of incoming/outgoing calls and texts exist. I can sign on to my account online and see a call I made an hour ago and I can go back months. To me making the cell phones disappear would be the last thing I would do IF I USED it during a crime - would make LE look into those records fast. MOO
Surprisingly a lot of people seem to be unaware of that. Some people seem to think that getting rid of the phone gets rid of the record. Plus there have been a lot of news articles lately that talk about how so many companies aren't saving the info anymore.
Probably would have been better for her if she had just not admitted to having that particular phone and keeping the other working phone.
SuziQ
10-07-2011, 04:39 PM
Today the phones were an issue all along. Yesterday Young said basically the phones netted no information.
Just thinking outloud.
Lizbetbathory
10-07-2011, 04:39 PM
perhaps it was a neighborhood person. That has happened in the past. If the person is mentally unstable they might need the lights on and take the cells. WHo knows? make the voice in thier head are telling them. Wasnt there a case of a teen or young adult whom took a little girl, helped with the case and had her body in his bed room that was only a few doors down?
In da Middle
10-07-2011, 04:39 PM
The boys are old enough to know that something was amiss, don't you think? And I am sure they have been questioned. jmo
Not if they were asleep when it happened. If she did it alone, at the very least, that would mean she left them home unattended. If she did not do it, at the very least, means somebody had the most astronomical good luck possible.
mck16
10-07-2011, 04:40 PM
I've not heard or read anywhere how the 911 call was made. But come to think of it I have also not heard that there was any neighbors present when LE arrived. If someone came to my house and needed to use my phone to call 911, I would probably go back to their house with them. Emotional support as well as finding out more about what was going on. Another little anomaly.
Didn't I read that the mother got the boys and ran out in the yard. That she stopped a passing police car? Or did I dream that? Why was there a police car driving down the street at that time of the morning. I really haven't heard about a 911 call. ty
matou
10-07-2011, 04:40 PM
Were the other children staying somewhere for awhile during this investigation or am I remembering this wrong?
meowmo
10-07-2011, 04:40 PM
Hold the phone, something just hit me. We're talking about a 10 month old, right? A SICK 10 month old? I don't know about anyone else's kids, but I can guarantee you my kid would have been screaming bloody murder if a) someone awoke her, ESPECIALLY if she wasn't feeling well and b) that someone was not a primary caretaker. Short of the intruder drugging the child, is mom claiming Lisa is so mild-mannered that she'd allow someone to take her out of the house without making a peep?
mck16
10-07-2011, 04:41 PM
Not if they were asleep when it happened. If she did it alone, at the very least, that would mean she left them home unattended. If she did not do it, at the very least, means somebody had the most astronomical good luck possible.
Actually I was referring the portion of the post that said the father took her when he left for work. Sorry I should have bolded that.
AnaTeresa
10-07-2011, 04:42 PM
Hold the phone, something just hit me. We're talking about a 10 month old, right? A SICK 10 month old? I don't know about anyone else's kids, but I can guarantee you my kid would have been screaming bloody murder if a) someone awoke her, ESPECIALLY if she wasn't feeling well and b) that someone was not a primary caretaker. Short of the intruder drugging the child, is mom claiming Lisa is so mild-mannered that she'd allow someone to take her out of the house without making a peep?
Well, other family members have already talked about how friendly and easy-going Lisa is. Also, if she had been given Tylenol or Benadryl, there's a good chance she would have been out cold. Plus, some kids are just deep sleepers.
Lizbetbathory
10-07-2011, 04:42 PM
Hold the phone, something just hit me. We're talking about a 10 month old, right? A SICK 10 month old? I don't know about anyone else's kids, but I can guarantee you my kid would have been screaming bloody murder if a) someone awoke her, ESPECIALLY if she wasn't feeling well and b) that someone was not a primary caretaker. Short of the intruder drugging the child, is mom claiming Lisa is so mild-mannered that she'd allow someone to take her out of the house without making a peep?
my kids slept pretty hard when they were sick sometimes after being away coughing
matou
10-07-2011, 04:42 PM
Hold the phone, something just hit me. We're talking about a 10 month old, right? A SICK 10 month old? I don't know about anyone else's kids, but I can guarantee you my kid would have been screaming bloody murder if a) someone awoke her, ESPECIALLY if she wasn't feeling well and b) that someone was not a primary caretaker. Short of the intruder drugging the child, is mom claiming Lisa is so mild-mannered that she'd allow someone to take her out of the house without making a peep?
Every baby is different but mine woke up every four hours or so, especially if she was on cold meds that usually wear off in about four hours. My baby did not sleep through the night until she was two.
CN2Souls
10-07-2011, 04:43 PM
Were the other children staying somewhere for awhile during this investigation or am I remembering this wrong?
Boy were at neighbor which some have said are relitives...
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