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View Full Version : MO - AMBER ALERT: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #7


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wfgodot
10-07-2011, 11:48 PM
Thank you for clarifying, I couldn't remember Lanza being mentioned as part of the KCPD but that stood out when I read the article and hadn't seen it posted. Ooops should have done more reading.
No problem, I got lucky - I'd just read that article before you posted it.

CHICANA
10-07-2011, 11:49 PM
It could have been for another property. I'm in FL and that happens.. it will follow you. And i remember reading on here from a verified neighbor they have only been in this house about a year. Would make sense.

Per public records, JI bought the house in 2002.

RANCH
10-07-2011, 11:52 PM
Oh I know. I guess my point is I've seen this so many times in other cases. It is almost as though the parents reach a roadblock with LE and then start talking about the investigation and polys and insisting they are cooperating and disputing police claims.

If they are innocent bringing what LE said about the polys can shed them in bad light in the eyes of the public and with the Investigators. The court of public opinion is already harsh enough at times. So why bring this additional condemnation upon yourself? Sometimes saying nothing really is better.

I agree. That's what makes this so interesting to me. Saying you failed a polygraph doesn't help you at all in the court of public opinion. So why did she admit she failed the test? It makes little sense. Unless maybe she's telling the truth and doesn't realize it looks bad. I'm not sure myself at this point.

MyBelle
10-07-2011, 11:52 PM
I'm sure the child was in school, but would they be sent to school during all of this mess? I was merely answering the question of whether or not children could be questioned without parental consent and I gave the circumstances where they could be. Sorry to be confusing and sorry if I'm being snarky. I've been here for going on 15 hours with only a couple of short breaks. TGIF right? :)

Understood! I just assumed the boy would be sent to school to try to keep him in a normal routine. And that LE would swing by the school so they could talk to him without parents nearby. More I think about it, I doubt it is even an issue.

JMO

grandmaj
10-07-2011, 11:53 PM
OK guys we are not sleuthing the victim here baby Lisa regarding parentage. There hasn't even been a whisper of that being in question. And, parents can be discussed, no other people. Not former spouses, significant others etc. Those people are not involved unless we hear otherwise in MSM.

Just K
10-07-2011, 11:54 PM
Nightline is now on for those of us in EST, but it looks like there are 2 other stories along w/ Baby Lisa.
Well that was enlightening. The picture of the crib filled with storage bins and a baby tub is from today. And oddly, there was a wall right next o the crib which appeared to be under construction and covered with a black plastic tarp. Very odd, as the police had only just released the scene (house.)

norest4thewicked
10-07-2011, 11:56 PM
Understood! I just assumed the boy would be sent to school to try to keep him in a normal routine. And that LE would swing by the school so they could talk to him without parents nearby. More I think about it, I doubt it is even an issue.

JMO

I guess it's just as likely that they were in school as they were out. I hope tomorrow we find out some things like were the kids interviewed, was there indeed a phone call coming from the house (or near) at 2:30 am, and a whole bunch of other stuff. Thankfully, tomorrow is Saturday and I can't sit here all day. :)

DairyGirl
10-07-2011, 11:57 PM
Same site...... so does Deborah (Debra/Debbie). I saw a few things that could put someone in financial stress (of course, who isn't these days)
But it alos puts my mind in the 'they've dealt with lawyers before and aren't as naive as some may think' position. Again, MOO.

I asked earlier if LE was looking into their financial situation. The whole Orlando debacle has certainly taught some that crime pays.

Mels3kidz
10-07-2011, 11:57 PM
In one of the recent articles it was stated that Debby Bradley told the news reporter herself that she was told she had failed it but I'm not going to try to find it. I'm pretty sure it was on the page that keeps updating all the news for Lisa.


Just because she was told she failed it doesn't mean that she actually failed it. That could have been an interrogation technique.

Mel

MyBelle
10-07-2011, 11:58 PM
If I felt that I was being railroaded for a crime I did not commit.....I would stop talking to the cops immediately, and get myself a lawyer.

The West Memphis 3 comes to mind as I'm typing.

It is possible to both obtain a lawyer and continue cooperating with police.

JMO

Cher352
10-08-2011, 12:00 AM
That is true. But I also read that it is a very 'small' street and neighborhood, and any strangers watching the home would have been noticed.

But I suppose that a weird neighbor or a friend of a neighbor woud be able to sit back safely and watch the comings and goings at the home.

I have wondering about this same thing today.

From what I saw in one of the earlier video it showed dad getting into a late model, large extended cab truck. If this was his it would be rather noticable. Wonder where he normally parked it? Front yard or back yard or garage?

Could someone had noticed that the truck wasn't there in the middle of the night realizing that this would be the perfect time to strike?

Or maybe thinking no one was home and intended only to rob them? (of course why take the baby if that?)

MyBelle
10-08-2011, 12:01 AM
Maybe that is what they meant when they said the parents were not cooperating.

Yep, I think not being truthful could fit the definition.

Mirage
10-08-2011, 12:01 AM
I agree. That's what makes this so interesting to me. Saying you failed a polygraph doesn't help you at all in the court of public opinion. So why did she admit she failed the test? It makes little sense. Unless maybe she's telling the truth and doesn't realize it looks bad. I'm not sure myself at this point.

This is part of why I believe the parents... I feel that they are just blindly going forward the only way they know how, and trusting that because they are telling the truth, they will be deemed honest in the end. I dont think she knows to lie or omit the truth.

liz b.
10-08-2011, 12:01 AM
Somewhere in the last couple of pages I thought I also read the pings showed somewhere close to the house. So which is it? Arrrrggggg Yes the phone records don't go away because the phone does.

GrandmaJ,
Yes, I read that too -- the last ping was supposedly close to the

house... I guess this would explain LE taking metal detectors back behind the house...

Peepers
10-08-2011, 12:02 AM
I agree. That's what makes this so interesting to me. Saying you failed a polygraph doesn't help you at all in the court of public opinion. So why did she admit she failed the test? It makes little sense. Unless maybe she's telling the truth and doesn't realize it looks bad. I'm not sure myself at this point.


I got the impression she was trying to let everyone know that she felt the cops were railroading her. I cant remember exactly how she said it now but I think she implied they said she was "deceitful" but did not give her the details on what questions were deceitful. I got the impression she did not believe that she failed it or that her emotions made her fail it and wanted to get the word out that LE is not looking beyond her. She was pleading for help to find Lisa since she feels LE is not looking past her. She seemed genuine on feeling that as long as LE was so focused on her, the baby will not be found.

RANCH
10-08-2011, 12:04 AM
Bedtime is the worst time for a mother I think. Especially as the kids get older. I was just on the phone with my daughter. The kids are healthy all summer long. They go back to school and one has bronchitis and one strep. So both of those boys are on antibiotics the little one on liquid antibiotics which is mixed with a syrup and the kids don't eat much sugar. He is off the wall with this antibiotic. She said Mom he is out of his brain tonight. The commotion in the house with the 4 of them tonight was just incredible. My granddaughter crying because one of the boys took some little toy that she really loved. And no one could find it. The second oldest having just received his Halloween Costume in the mail from us running around acting Ninja. They all feed off of one another. One of them was tearing his bed apart looking for something.... it went on and on tonight. And my grandkids while kids are pretty well behaved until bedtime. I don't know how daughter does it to be honest. It is crazy for those few hours in that house. And she is alone my SIL works nights.

So I guess I wonder what happened in those hours. Was it a wild night? Did all the kids go down quietly for their sleep? Was the baby fussy? I know when my daughter was that age if she didn't feel well she wanted to be in my bed next to me, and I wanted her there so that I could watch her.

There is a big piece of this puzzle missing.

Great post. And there's a whole lot of this puzzle missing I'm afraid. Too soon for me to draw any conclusions.

AnonymousD
10-08-2011, 12:05 AM
Well that was enlightening. The picture of the crib filled with storage bins and a baby tub is from today. And oddly, there was a wall right next o the crib which appeared to be under construction and covered with a black plastic tarp. Very odd, as the police had only just released the scene (house.)


We're thinking that is a window covered with, what appears to be, black plastic (trash bags?) & duct tape.

yllek
10-08-2011, 12:05 AM
Mom actually said in the ABC GMA interview this morning that she didn't remember which questions she was told that she'd failed. She also said that LE was pushing her about "gaps" in her account because she couldn't fill in those gaps. IIRC.

grandmaj
10-08-2011, 12:06 AM
I got the impression she was trying to let everyone know that she felt the cops were railroading her. I cant remember exactly how she said it now but I think she implied they said she was "deceitful" but did not give her the details on what questions were deceitful. I got the impression she did not believe that she failed it or that her emotions made her fail it and wanted to get the word out that LE is not looking beyond her. She was pleading for help to find Lisa since she feels LE is not looking past her. She seemed genuine on feeling that as long as LE was so focused on her, the baby will not be found.

What bothers me about this tactic though is those before that have tried it. Misty Croslin comes to mind. How many lie detector tests did Misty fail? And yet she came out swinging that LE was trying to pin something on her she didn't do. I still don't know what happened in that case but I know one thing as sure as I sit here. Misty has lied and still hasn't come clean and while she may not have hurt Haleigh she is playing dumb about someone else.

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 12:07 AM
We're thinking that is a window covered with, what appears to be, black plastic (trash bags?) & duct tape.
I think that the general consensus here is that this was used to block light for luminol testing. I think that's what most thought it was for. Others thought for other reasons, but it had to do with something LE did.

vlpate
10-08-2011, 12:07 AM
It is troubling. I agree, I would do whatever it takes, up to and including allowing any other children in the house to be questioned. If they are refusing to allow their children to be interviewed you have to wonder why. But I don't know that they haven't been interviewed. I was just responding to the statement that the police may have dropped the ball if they hadn't talked to the other children. LE doesn't have the legal right to interview the children without the parents permission.

I would be willing to bet there are a lot of information that the public does not know about just yet.

LE does not have to have the parents permission to interview a minor. I think, in some States, the parents must be notified, but they don't need "permission".

MyBelle
10-08-2011, 12:09 AM
I agree. That's what makes this so interesting to me. Saying you failed a polygraph doesn't help you at all in the court of public opinion. So why did she admit she failed the test? It makes little sense. Unless maybe she's telling the truth and doesn't realize it looks bad. I'm not sure myself at this point.

Her behavior is why I think the baby is somewhere safe and sound and she knows it. She's in a form of denial and in her mind she hasn't harmed the baby so she's upset that police are accusing her. I'm trying to give her the benefit of the doubt. I have many doubts.

Or she may be just as messed up as Casey Anthony. At this point, hard for us to know what is the truth.

JMO

RANCH
10-08-2011, 12:10 AM
Somewhere in the last couple of pages I thought I also read the pings showed somewhere close to the house. So which is it? Arrrrggggg Yes the phone records don't go away because the phone does.

I guess if you would check my cell phone pings they would show close to my house also. Makes sense right?

Just K
10-08-2011, 12:10 AM
We're thinking that is a window covered with, what appears to be, black plastic (trash bags?) & duct tape.
Kind of creepy, huh? And, Nightline made a point that they went into the house as soon as LE released the crime scene (took down the crime tape.)

So, one has to wonder who filled the crib with all that stuff, why and when?

MyBelle
10-08-2011, 12:11 AM
What bothers me about this tactic though is those before that have tried it. Misty Croslin comes to mind. How many lie detector tests did Misty fail? And yet she came out swinging that LE was trying to pin something on her she didn't do. I still don't know what happened in that case but I know one thing as sure as I sit here. Misty has lied and still hasn't come clean and while she may not have hurt Haleigh she is playing dumb about someone else.

Indeed, has it been a successful tactic ever? We also do know that Casey Anthony lied and was prosecuted for it.

JMO

vlpate
10-08-2011, 12:12 AM
What bothers me about this tactic though is those before that have tried it. Misty Croslin comes to mind. How many lie detector tests did Misty fail? And yet she came out swinging that LE was trying to pin something on her she didn't do. I still don't know what happened in that case but I know one thing as sure as I sit here. Misty has lied and still hasn't come clean and while she may not have hurt Haleigh she is playing dumb about someone else.
Many times the lie detector test is used solely for interrogation purposes - as you stated, even if the suspect is found to be lying, it is really meaningless at the end of the day. No one is arrested for failing a polygraph, but sometimes the failing of one reinforces LE's suspicions.

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 12:12 AM
Kind of creepy, huh? And, Nightline made a point that they went into the house as soon as LE released the crime scene (took down the crime tape.)

So, one has to wonder who filled the crib with all that stuff, why and when?

LE, because it was a small room and there were a lot of them and couldn't move around with all the stuff on the floor. That would be my thought.

liz b.
10-08-2011, 12:13 AM
Bedtime is the worst time for a mother I think. Especially as the kids get older. I was just on the phone with my daughter. The kids are healthy all summer long. They go back to school and one has bronchitis and one strep. So both of those boys are on antibiotics the little one on liquid antibiotics which is mixed with a syrup and the kids don't eat much sugar. He is off the wall with this antibiotic. She said Mom he is out of his brain tonight. The commotion in the house with the 4 of them tonight was just incredible. My granddaughter crying because one of the boys took some little toy that she really loved. And no one could find it. The second oldest having just received his Halloween Costume in the mail from us running around acting Ninja. They all feed off of one another. One of them was tearing his bed apart looking for something.... it went on and on tonight. And my grandkids while kids are pretty well behaved until bedtime. I don't know how daughter does it to be honest. It is crazy for those few hours in that house. And she is alone my SIL works nights.

So I guess I wonder what happened in those hours. Was it a wild night? Did all the kids go down quietly for their sleep? Was the baby fussy? I know when my daughter was that age if she didn't feel well she wanted to be in my bed next to me, and I wanted her there so that I could watch her.

There is a big piece of this puzzle missing.

Nothing at all was mentioned about the boys that night.Other than the kitten story. Nothing mentioned about when Jeremy left the house.

I forget, did Lisa's mom say that 7:30 was the last time that WE saw her ? If so, did she mean her and Jeremy ? Or her and the boys ? I must go back,try to find that... But, yes, part of the puzzle is missing MOO

DairyGirl
10-08-2011, 12:14 AM
kmbc KMBC
See New Family Pictures Of 10-Month-Old Lisa Irwin: See new family pictures of missing 10-month-old Lisa Irwin. ... bit.ly/rnW9jh
1 hour ago

KMBC is an ABC affiliate

Oh, I knew that. I wonder how much money they made for those pictures. Kidnapped children are pretty lucrative these days.

BeanE
10-08-2011, 12:14 AM
News article and video about the vigil tonight

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-vigil-held-for-missing-baby-lisa-20111005,0,551920.story

Cher352
10-08-2011, 12:15 AM
Scaring thought....

We live on a 1 1/2 acre lot in small isolated subdivision and I can remember our baby monitor occasionlly picking up some muted conversations. That was years before ever coming here so I didn't think much about it other that it was weird.

But tonight when I think about it, anyone with a receiver on the same frequency could possibly be hearing everything the monitor in your home picks up too.

Tell me I am wrong, please!

wfgodot
10-08-2011, 12:16 AM
Many times the lie detector test is used solely for interrogation purposes - as you stated, even if the suspect is found to be lying, it is really meaningless at the end of the day. No one is arrested for failing a polygraph, but sometimes the failing of one reinforces LE's suspicions.
Also, I've read that another major factor in LE's evaluation of the polygraph process is the subject's willingness to take it - if they're gung-ho and submit to one bright and early in the case, that can mean as much or more than whether they wind up passing or failing.

Not sure if that's the case here, of course.

vlpate
10-08-2011, 12:16 AM
LE, because it was a small room and there were a lot of them and couldn't move around with all the stuff on the floor. That would be my thought.

But as many have pointed out, why didn't they take the bed linens? Did someone make the bed? Seems odd for someone to take the time to make the bed and not take down the garbage bags off the windows.

neesaki
10-08-2011, 12:16 AM
I just had a thought. Not accusing anyone, just thinking out loud here. LE reportedly does not want a poly from the dad. Dad's first night out of the home for a job. A sick child. Two little boys...

Bear with me - I'm getting there. I just got off the phone with my mom who is alone with our 2 kids this weekend. She said it wasn't going well and they wouldn't go to sleep. DD was crying for us. I finally told her to let them in bed with her to watch a movie and eventually fall asleep (my mother is too old to get worked up trying to get them to bed).

Then a light bulb clicked: what if (I'm just speculating) this is the mom's first night ever with baby Lisa and both boys? Baby Lisa is sick, the boys are active, maybe dad usually helps with bedtime routine. I know my own DH helps tremendously at bedtime in our family. So - what if there was an accident? It's only been recently - last couple of years, maybe? - that they had said don't give Benadryl, etc., to young children, especially to "get them to go to sleep", etc. What if mom finally had had enough and gave the baby something to get her to sleep?

I honestly am suspicious of her reactions - more so than dad's. He seems totally shell-shocked, puzzled, doesn't know which way is up, overwhelmed. Almost catatonic in some videos. I think he is honestly shocked and trying to figure it all out.

However, sometimes truth is stranger than fiction so who knows what really has happened to little Lisa? It could be a stranger, an acquaintance, a family member/friend, or the parents. I feel like a dog chasing its tail on this case.

I understand what you're saying. Realize, though, that babies die everyday from SID's, sudden infant death syndrome, also known as "crib death". So, if for instance she checked on the baby and found her dead, why would she assume it was caused from her giving her a normal dose of baby Benadryl or pediatric cold medication? The average, loving mother would have called 911 and gotten help. Giving a baby a routine over the counter medication should not cause a mother to think she is at fault for the baby's death. So to me this is not an explanation. Accidental death is no possible reason to cause a reasonable parent to then dispose of the baby's body and claim they were kidnapped. JMO

AnonymousD
10-08-2011, 12:17 AM
I think that the general consensus here is that this was used to block light for luminol testing. I think that's what most thought it was for. Others thought for other reasons, but it had to do with something LE did.

Yes, TY for adding that, norest!

CatFancier
10-08-2011, 12:19 AM
If I felt that I was being railroaded for a crime I did not commit.....I would stop talking to the cops immediately, and get myself a lawyer.

The West Memphis 3 comes to mind as I'm typing.

And to use your post as a springboard...if they did that to me, they are absolutely not going to talk to my kids.

Dr.Fessel
10-08-2011, 12:19 AM
Just something that has been rolling around in my head for awhile.

Broken cell phone, re programing numbers into a cell phone, changing shifts at work and routines interrupted all remind me of when my daughter caught my son in-law cheating on her.

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 12:20 AM
But as many have pointed out, why didn't they take the bed linens? Did someone make the bed? Seems odd for someone to take the time to make the bed and not take down the garbage bags off the windows.

I have no idea. But I can tell you that this is just one of many things about this case that stumps me.

Kakidoll
10-08-2011, 12:20 AM
I've gotten no work done and can't keep up with these threads tonight.

I could have sworn somewhere (and I don't have the patience right now to go thru all the threads) that someone had a said a year for her living there. Now if JI is in his late 20's, and he bought the house in 2002, he was quite young and prices were def. higher then.

I also thought ( again, sorry, i'm tired) that i found a Debra L Bradley that was born in 86, on that site posted in last post. She had a different address in 10 and then couldn't be served. Then address is listed as 'current one. Some records i found did not have BD's and it could be a different DB. I don't have the best sites for research, just used the MO court system.
And it was stated somewhere earlier that she was in her 20's too..... which would be the 86 date... So i'm very confused. She does look older.

Also, doesn't another relative live relatively close? I thought (and i promise i'll research better tomorrow) that there was another address given for JI a few years back. Not that it matters in a big way, just wondering about financial motives.

Sorry for the rambling..... i just can't stop thinking about this lil one tonight.
Really want Mom and Dad to work with LE...... with or without lawyers.

miabellamoure
10-08-2011, 12:23 AM
Nothing at all was mentioned about the boys that night.Other than the kitten story. Nothing mentioned about when Jeremy left the house.

I forget, did Lisa's mom say that 7:30 was the last time that WE saw her ? If so, did she mean her and Jeremy ? Or her and the boys ? I must go back,try to find that... But, yes, part of the puzzle is missing MOO

She said it was 10:30 pm that she gave the baby a bottle and laid her down and that was the last time WE saw her and she looked straight at Jeremy when she said that...

MyBelle
10-08-2011, 12:23 AM
Also, I've read that another major factor in LE's evaluation of the polygraph process is the subject's willingness to take it - if they're gung-ho and submit to one bright and early in the case, that can mean as much or more than whether they wind up passing or failing.

Not sure if that's the case here, of course.

I think the reason LE told her she lied is because LE can prove she lied.

iow, LE asked her a question that LE already knew the answer to. Such as something about a call to/from her cell phone perhaps made when she claimed to be asleep.

JMO

vlpate
10-08-2011, 12:25 AM
Nothing at all was mentioned about the boys that night.Other than the kitten story. Nothing mentioned about when Jeremy left the house.

I forget, did Lisa's mom say that 7:30 was the last time that WE saw her ? If so, did she mean her and Jeremy ? Or her and the boys ? I must go back,try to find that... But, yes, part of the puzzle is missing MOO

I heard 7:30 as well, but tonight on the ABC exclusive house thing, it was said Debbie stated she put her to bed around 10:30.

elepher50
10-08-2011, 12:27 AM
I think the reason LE told her she lied is because LE can prove she lied.

iow, LE asked her a question that LE already knew the answer to. Such as something about a call to/from her cell phone perhaps made when she claimed to be asleep.

JMO

:waitasec:How can LE prove it was mom that used the cell phone unless they had the conversation recorded? LE can prove the phone was used based on pings but they cannot tell who was actually using the phone.

Cubby
10-08-2011, 12:27 AM
Just because she was told she failed it doesn't mean that she actually failed it. That could have been an interrogation technique.

Mel


I agree. That was my immediate thought, especially since mom claims they showed her no paperwork regarding the results.

elepher50
10-08-2011, 12:28 AM
I heard 7:30 as well, but tonight on the ABC exclusive house thing, it was said Debbie stated she put her to bed around 10:30.

To bed at 7:30pm and checked on her at 10:30pm.

Cher352
10-08-2011, 12:29 AM
Innocent people fail poly's all the time. LE knows that. How can mom tell LE where Lisa is if she doesn't know? It is not a good thing for LE to get tunnel vision.

I have also seen it brought up on other cases that as an investigative tactic LE will tell people that they failed or weren't being truthful on the test even thought the test did not show that. LE if fact just trying to trip them up or get them or change their story.

redfish
10-08-2011, 12:29 AM
Many times the lie detector test is used solely for interrogation purposes - as you stated, even if the suspect is found to be lying, it is really meaningless at the end of the day. No one is arrested for failing a polygraph, but sometimes the failing of one reinforces LE's suspicions.

Yes you are right, I believe. I also believe that the bulk of the population knows this. Innocent or guilty I imagine even the notion that someone suspected her could have had an immediate shocking effect. But, I am sure that if she was not aware of this before, several people including her attorney, would have filled her in by now. The breach should have ended and the mis-understandings put aside for the sake of Lisa. There should be no hesitation of the innocent parent with an attorney at their side. My opinion of course.

Sooooooooo, what is the ruckus about then? 24 hrs have passed and no apparent making up with LE. Just banter in the press and media. ODD to me, what happened to the "focus"? To me there has been a definite shift and to me, forgive me if I am wrong, it appears that some are "milking it". Sorry, I hope I haven't offended anyone.

MyBelle
10-08-2011, 12:30 AM
But as many have pointed out, why didn't they take the bed linens? Did someone make the bed? Seems odd for someone to take the time to make the bed and not take down the garbage bags off the windows.

Maybe when cops first arrived at the house, they found that stuff stacked in the crib and don't believe the mother's story that the baby had been asleep in it?

JMO

Cher352
10-08-2011, 12:30 AM
:waitasec:How can LE prove it was mom that used the cell phone unless they had the conversation recorded? LE can prove the phone was used based on pings but they cannot tell who was actually using the phone.

Exactly.... unless they talked to who was called.

Dr.Fessel
10-08-2011, 12:31 AM
:waitasec:How can LE prove it was mom that used the cell phone unless they had the conversation recorded? LE can prove the phone was used based on pings but they cannot tell who was actually using the phone.

Maybe they talked to the person she called and they told the truth about the call. Maybe she thought the person would lie.

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 12:31 AM
She said it was 10:30 pm that she gave the baby a bottle and laid her down and that was the last time WE saw her and she looked straight at Jeremy when she said that...

No...she put the baby down at 7:30 but only checked on her at 10:30.

grandmaj
10-08-2011, 12:31 AM
Did Mom work? Or was she SAHM?

marge_rita
10-08-2011, 12:32 AM
But as many have pointed out, why didn't they take the bed linens? Did someone make the bed? Seems odd for someone to take the time to make the bed and not take down the garbage bags off the windows.

LE not taking the babies bed linens is not a good thing. It bothers me as far as the investigation goes. There could be hair fibers, clothes fibers, liquids.........a heck of a lot of stuff for DNA and other forensic testing.


imo

Madeleine74
10-08-2011, 12:32 AM
This case reminds me a bit of the Sabrina Aisenberg case of about 15 yrs ago in which an adorable baby (approx 5 months old) "disappeared" out of the parents' home during the night and was never seen again. The parents came under much scrutiny by police and may have been involved but the investigation ultimately went no where. There are 2 other kids in the family, both older.

Anyway, this latest baby missing case reminded me instantly of that one.

liz b.
10-08-2011, 12:33 AM
She said it was 10:30 pm that she gave the baby a bottle and laid her down and that was the last time WE saw her and she looked straight at Jeremy when she said that...

Thank you for finding that ... It's confusing, because I would have thought Jeremy was at work at 10 :30pm ? Unless she was trying to convince Jeremy that 10 :30 pm was the last time she and one or both of the boys saw Lisa ? just some thoughts...

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 12:34 AM
I think ABC is incorrect on the time she gave the baby the bottle.

MyBelle
10-08-2011, 12:35 AM
:waitasec:How can LE prove it was mom that used the cell phone unless they had the conversation recorded? LE can prove the phone was used based on pings but they cannot tell who was actually using the phone.

Mom claimed she left cell phones on the counter. I don't believe a jury will believe a stranger abducted the baby, took the time to steal cell phones and then stashed them in the pitch of dark near the house.

JMO

neesaki
10-08-2011, 12:35 AM
Since the couple has announced themselves as suspects and given MSM interviews about it (and this isn't derrogatory information), just a couple of clarifications to what I believe is inaccurate media reporting (or assumptions) early in the case. This information is only meant to clear up possible inaccuracies related to key parties in the case of Lisa's disappearance and has nothing to do with guilt or innocence.

Parents ages:
Court records show that Deborah Lee Bradley (formerly Netz) was born in 76, therefore she is 35 (keep seeing posts saying 25). I guess the court records could be wrong, but more inclined to belive the media got it wrong or they got wrong information from family. MOO. No records showing divorce/annulment that I saw, but doesn't mean she isn't divorced. Her ex with surname Bradley is 10 years younger and Jeremy Irwin was born in 1984, so he would indeed be 28 (correctly reported).

Marital Status:
There was speculation here that Jeremy wasn't free to marry because he is still married. He has no civil court records on file with anyone sharing his last name, but does have custody records on file with a woman who is the mother of the 8 year half-brother of Lisa. It doesn't appear they were ever married. MOO.

Mods: I think this is okay, but please delete if not. TIA!

Statistically speaking, that this couple is unmarried with a baby out of wedlock; children from previous marriages/relationships; plus the complications of child support and custody issues; all of which are in themselves very stressful and have an innate negative impact on marital relationships, it doesn't surprise me one bit that something such as this could have culminated in a scenario that might approach what we see playing itself out before our eyes. Keeping in mind, of course, that the implications of kidnapping and/ or murder in this case places it well beyond the norm. I am still praying and hoping this is going to turn out postitively w/ baby Lisa coming home safe and alive..JMO

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 12:35 AM
This case reminds me a bit of the Sabrina Aisenberg case of about 15 yrs ago in which an adorable baby (approx 5 months old) "disappeared" out of the parents' home during the night and was never seen again. The parents came under much scrutiny by police and may have been involved but the investigation ultimately went no where. There are 2 other kids in the family, both older.

Anyway, this latest baby missing case reminded me instantly of that one.

THANK you! I was thinking of this case tonight and couldn't remember her name. Lets hope this case doesn't go the same way.

marge_rita
10-08-2011, 12:35 AM
Say the 'kidnapper' came through the bedroom window pictured above, did the kidnapper step on the baby swing? Did the kidnapper touch the crib?

I'm trying to ask--did LE finger print that room?

imo

EllaMae
10-08-2011, 12:36 AM
Did Mom work? Or was she SAHM?

Mom is a SAHM

MyBelle
10-08-2011, 12:36 AM
Did Mom work? Or was she SAHM?

SAHM, I believe.

RANCH
10-08-2011, 12:36 AM
Also, I've read that another major factor in LE's evaluation of the polygraph process is the subject's willingness to take it - if they're gung-ho and submit to one bright and early in the case, that can mean as much or more than whether they wind up passing or failing.

Not sure if that's the case here, of course.

Your right. Marc Klass is famous for taking a polygraph right away during Polly's disappearance.
He's been very vocal about family taking a polygraph soon, so that LE can move on in their investigation. It looks like Deborah Bradley took a polygraph early. So I guess we will see.

grandmaj
10-08-2011, 12:37 AM
OK guys we are not sleuthing the victim here baby Lisa regarding parentage. There hasn't even been a whisper of that being in question. And, parents can be discussed, no other people. Not former spouses, significant others etc. Those people are not involved unless we hear otherwise in MSM.


:bump: Hang on to news to lead us into inquiries like parentage. :)

3doglady
10-08-2011, 12:37 AM
Maybe when cops first arrived at the house, they found that stuff stacked in the crib and don't believe the mother's story that the baby had been asleep in it?

JMO

Surely LE would have checked the bed regardless of whether they had doubts about the mom's story. If not, LE obviously did not do their job. I agree with the other posters that all the bedding should have been taken by LE. This doesn't reflect well on them.

Blue Ridge
10-08-2011, 12:39 AM
:waitasec:How can LE prove it was mom that used the cell phone unless they had the conversation recorded? LE can prove the phone was used based on pings but they cannot tell who was actually using the phone.

They possibly could if it were a text (depending on context) instead of a call.... or perhaps if one of the 'missing phones' actually called/texted one of the others.

HatesSociopaths
10-08-2011, 12:39 AM
Does anyone know if Jeremy wanted the graveyard shift or if it was his boss who asked him to do this? I suspect this was a team operation.

MyBelle
10-08-2011, 12:39 AM
Exactly.... unless they talked to who was called.

Or they are investigating the person who was called.

JMO

shorty42404
10-08-2011, 12:40 AM
Praying for baby Lisa and a humongous break in this case...soon! :praying:

vlpate
10-08-2011, 12:40 AM
Does anyone know if Jeremy wanted the graveyard shift or if it was his boss who asked him to do this? I suspect this was a team operation.

He was building a Starbucks....I'm still trying to put together why this would be something done at night.

marge_rita
10-08-2011, 12:40 AM
Mom claimed she left cell phones on the counter. I don't believe a jury will believe a stranger abducted the baby, took the time to steal cell phones and then stashed them in the pitch of dark near the house.

JMO

MyBelle,
I agree. Makes no sense. As someone said earlier today, kidnappers don't look down a street and say-hey let's go to the house that's well lighted, kidnap their baby and steal their cell phones.

A real kidnapper would say let's get the baby and get the he double L outta here.


imo

redfish
10-08-2011, 12:42 AM
Surely LE would have checked the bed regardless of whether they had doubts about the mom's story. If not, LE obviously did not do their job. I agree with the other posters that all the bedding should have been taken by LE. This doesn't reflect well on them.

Was it established that those pictures of the bed were taken after LE was finished with the house? I didn't see that but I have to admit I have had a real hard time keeping up today!

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 12:42 AM
He was building a Starbucks....I'm still trying to put together why this would be something done at night.

Maybe it was a repair within an existing Starbucks and they had to do it at night because of customers. Just a thought.

MyBelle
10-08-2011, 12:43 AM
Surely LE would have checked the bed regardless of whether they had doubts about the mom's story. If not, LE obviously did not do their job. I agree with the other posters that all the bedding should have been taken by LE. This doesn't reflect well on them.

What would you expect LE would find by testing the bedding?

marge_rita
10-08-2011, 12:43 AM
He was building a Starbucks....I'm still trying to put together why this would be something done at night.

It cost a heck of a lot of money to hire contractors to do jobs at night, especially 3rd shift.

I have a new Starbucks less than a mile from where I live. Construction work wasn't done at night.


imo

grandmaj
10-08-2011, 12:43 AM
We have heard about the cell phones. Does anyone know anything about cable? Because while you might not have a hard wired phone line you can get telephone service through cable. My house phone is through Comcast. But we also have cell phones. And I can take my portable phones out into the yard and talk on them. I've never tested how far out they will work I generally sit on the deck.

It would be interesting to know this.

Dr.Fessel
10-08-2011, 12:44 AM
He was building a Starbucks....I'm still trying to put together why this would be something done at night. Meeting a deadline?

vlpate
10-08-2011, 12:44 AM
Say the 'kidnapper' came through the bedroom window pictured above, did the kidnapper step on the baby swing? Did the kidnapper touch the crib?

I'm trying to ask--did LE finger print that room?

imo

He'd have to be a pretty dense kidnapper to come in through the window when the door was unlocked and all the lights were on.

HatesSociopaths
10-08-2011, 12:44 AM
What was her phone call at 2:30 about and who was it to? Has she been asked by media?

Katana
10-08-2011, 12:45 AM
Well, mom and dad are no longer pleading for the 'kidnapper' to return their baby to a safe place unless media has been editing that part out all day, but can't imagine they would. Reminds me of Cindy and George when they claimed Caylee was a missing child yet you could tell they knew that wasn't true. Using 99% of airtime defending yourself is very telling if you ask me.

alwaysonmymind
10-08-2011, 12:45 AM
I read it was improvements to an existing Starbucks. Those types of jobs are done at night to keep the business open (making money) during operating hours.

3doglady
10-08-2011, 12:45 AM
Was it established that those pictures of the bed were taken after LE was finished with the house? I didn't see that but I have to admit I have had a real hard time keeping up today!

I think the video stated that the pictures were taken immediately after LE removed the crime scene tape.

vlpate
10-08-2011, 12:45 AM
Meeting a deadline?

Maybe...peeps need their lala lattes :)

RANCH
10-08-2011, 12:45 AM
I've gotten no work done and can't keep up with these threads tonight.

I could have sworn somewhere (and I don't have the patience right now to go thru all the threads) that someone had a said a year for her living there. Now if JI is in his late 20's, and he bought the house in 2002, he was quite young and prices were def. higher then.

I also thought ( again, sorry, i'm tired) that i found a Debra L Bradley that was born in 86, on that site posted in last post. She had a different address in 10 and then couldn't be served. Then address is listed as 'current one. Some records i found did not have BD's and it could be a different DB. I don't have the best sites for research, just used the MO court system.
And it was stated somewhere earlier that she was in her 20's too..... which would be the 86 date... So i'm very confused. She does look older.

Also, doesn't another relative live relatively close? I thought (and i promise i'll research better tomorrow) that there was another address given for JI a few years back. Not that it matters in a big way, just wondering about financial motives.

Sorry for the rambling..... i just can't stop thinking about this lil one tonight.
Really want Mom and Dad to work with LE...... with or without lawyers.

Do we know if he was renting or buying in 2002? I've read that he's 28 now so he would have been 19 or so in 2002. Ya, that's a little young to be buying a house but not renting one. I rented the same place for a long time. Maybe he is.

liz b.
10-08-2011, 12:46 AM
I think ABC is incorrect on the time she gave the baby the bottle.

So, she did originally say 7 :30pm.... I wonder if Jeremy was actually still at home at that time ?

eileenhawkeye
10-08-2011, 12:46 AM
This case reminds me so much of the JonBenet Ramsey case. I already see people here dividing into groups based on their theory---Intruder Did It or Family Did It. There's hinky evidence in both cases (ransom note and missing cell phones) that you could make fit either theory. The relationship between LE and the parents isn't good. There's a lot of debate about the parents not cooperating, and what that exactly means. In both cases, those who believe the family was involved, thinks they overstaged the scene. In both cases, those who think there was an intruder point out that the parents do not have a history of abuse, and ask why a parent would cover up the accidental death of a child.

CHICANA
10-08-2011, 12:46 AM
That makes sense. I sure thought that she looked older than 35 but Jeremy looks much older than her. Thanks for this info.

I found her marriage license & child support order but I couldn't find a divorce decree on casenet.

HatesSociopaths
10-08-2011, 12:47 AM
Do we know the exact month and year she moved in with him?

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 12:47 AM
It cost a heck of a lot of money to hire contractors to do jobs at night, especially 3rd shift.

I have a new Starbucks less than a mile from where I live. Construction work wasn't done at night.


imo

My son-in-law is an electrician and their company does night jobs. It just depends on the contracting company. And with a new Starbucks it wouldn't be necessary to work at night. But, if it was one that was open during the day, they would need to do it at night. They are Starbucks after all, NO ONE can live a day without going there right? :)

MyBelle
10-08-2011, 12:47 AM
MyBelle,
I agree. Makes no sense. As someone said earlier today, kidnappers don't look down a street and say-hey let's go to the house that's well lighted, kidnap their baby and steal their cell phones.

A real kidnapper would say let's get the baby and get the he double L outta here.


imo

I agree with you. I think it all depends on what number was called. We haven't been told how far away her husband was working and when he took breaks/dinner. Maybe she called him and he came home at 2:30 a.m. All a mystery at this point.

JMO

vlpate
10-08-2011, 12:48 AM
Say the 'kidnapper' came through the bedroom window pictured above, did the kidnapper step on the baby swing? Did the kidnapper touch the crib?

I'm trying to ask--did LE finger print that room?

imo

Actually, I'm wondering if these are two separate pieces of information given by JI and DB at different interviews. She said she left the door unlocked and he said the window didn't look right. ?

3doglady
10-08-2011, 12:48 AM
What would you expect LE would find by testing the bedding?

The crib should have been considered the main part of a crime scene since the mom stated that was the last place Lisa was seen. It should have been tested for fibers, blood, DNA and fingerprints.

grandmaj
10-08-2011, 12:50 AM
Supermarkets here are adding Starbucks in their stores. And the work is done at night so as not to disrupt the business during the day when it is busier. Also any construction work done at a mall is generally done after close so as not to disrupt the operation of the stores around them especially when laying electrical lines and plumbing.

RANCH
10-08-2011, 12:50 AM
Does anyone know if Jeremy wanted the graveyard shift or if it was his boss who asked him to do this? I suspect this was a team operation.

Do people actually ask for graveyard vs swing?

Dr.Fessel
10-08-2011, 12:51 AM
Actually, I'm wondering if these are two separate pieces of information given by JI and DB at different interviews. She said she left the door unlocked and he said the window didn't look right. ?

Wonder when she admitted she left door unlocked? Before or after LE said they window was not the entry point?

liz b.
10-08-2011, 12:51 AM
The crib should have been considered the main part of a crime scene since the mom stated that was the last place Lisa was seen. It should have been tested for fibers, blood, DNA and fingerprints.

I wonder if LE knows this ? Wonder if these things were all done ? I'm guessing yes...MOO

Dr.Fessel
10-08-2011, 12:52 AM
Kind of strange you forget to lock the door but you remember you forgot to lock the door.

wfgodot
10-08-2011, 12:52 AM
Well, mom and dad are no longer pleading for the 'kidnapper' to return their baby to a safe place unless media has been editing that part out all day, but can't imagine they would. Reminds me of Cindy and George when they claimed Caylee was a missing child yet you could tell they knew that wasn't true. Using 99% of airtime defending yourself is very telling if you ask me.
LE changed the emphasis of the case by leaking negative "facts" about the mom - and that on top of their self-serving press conference yesterday; I've not heard LE using airtime for much else lately. The parents have to defend themselves because the public will quickly lose interest in helping to find baby Lisa if they buy into the "parents did it" campaign and come to believe the child is dead.

The parents at this time are still the victims here.

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 12:52 AM
Do people actually ask for graveyard vs swing?

I always did. I love overnights!

HatesSociopaths
10-08-2011, 12:52 AM
Do people actually ask for graveyard vs swing?

Depends on the job and how much more the pay is for that shift.

If Jeremy asked for it, and on the very first night he does so, the baby disappears, I find it suspicious that two unusual things (working graveyard, baby disappearing) happened on that same night.

CHICANA
10-08-2011, 12:53 AM
Do we know if he was renting or buying in 2002? I've read that he's 28 now so he would have been 19 or so in 2002. Ya, that's a little young to be buying a house but not renting one. I rented the same place for a long time. Maybe he is.

Tell me if this link doesn't work. It shows that he is the owner & the last sale date was 11/1/2002. I thought the same thing, no way could I have bought a house at that age. I think it's Deborah that hasn't lived there long. I also wonder why the home phone is registered to a male -last name Netz instead of Jeremy. Maybe someone else had been living there ? Got kicked out & still had a key ?

http://gisweb.claycogov.com/realEstate/realEstateDetail.jsp?parcelid=18115001400500

neesaki
10-08-2011, 12:53 AM
The article says "a phone call was made from the couples home at 2:30 AM ". Not from a cell phone or from the mother. Getting rid of a cell phone will not get rid of your phone records. I think we can all agree with that.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/07/missing-missouri-infants-mother-says-police-accused-her/

So the call was made from their home phone meaning they do have a landline phone? I don't know, but if that's the case, it could possibly have been an intruder, the kidnapper, using their phone in order to implicate them. This is a crazy case.:crazy:

HatesSociopaths
10-08-2011, 12:54 AM
IMO, if I am the supposed "kidnapper", I would not give a hoot about the phones. I would just want to get the heck out of there. Taking the phones would make me paranoid that they could trace me through the phone. And it would not delay anything worth a hill of beans.

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 12:55 AM
So the call was made from their home phone meaning they do have a landline phone? I don't know, but if that's the case, it could possibly have been an intruder, the kidnapper, using their phone in order to implicate them. This is a crazy case.:crazy:

They didn't have a land line. I think that when people say that it was made from their home it meant the cell was pinged from there. That's my understanding.

3doglady
10-08-2011, 12:55 AM
I wonder if LE knows this ? Wonder if these things were all done ? I'm guessing yes...MOO

I would hope so but we were discussing why they left the bumper pad and comforter in the crib. That should have been tested also.

EllaMae
10-08-2011, 12:55 AM
MyBelle,
I agree. Makes no sense. As someone said earlier today, kidnappers don't look down a street and say-hey let's go to the house that's well lighted, kidnap their baby and steal their cell phones.

A real kidnapper would say let's get the baby and get the he double L outta here.


imo


Not trying to be argumentative at all...but none of us really know what would go through a kidnapper's mind. If there was the thought that it might delay calling for help I can see stealing the phones. It's really no different than cutting the phone lines in the days before cell phones.

There have been several examples posted here about crimes committed where the perps also took the victims cell phones to possibly slow down a call for help. It's become very common.
The phones were in plain sight on the counter, so it would be easy and very quick to stash them in pants pockets.

IMHO...it's not in the realm of impossible, so I have to consider that it could have happened.

Katana
10-08-2011, 12:56 AM
The crib should have been considered the main part of a crime scene since the mom stated that was the last place Lisa was seen. It should have been tested for fibers, blood, DNA and fingerprints.

Unless it wasn't the actual crime scene and evidence of a crime was found in another part of the house. :confused:

marge_rita
10-08-2011, 12:57 AM
He'd have to be a pretty dense kidnapper to come in through the window when the door was unlocked and all the lights were on.

:floorlaugh: True dat.

HatesSociopaths
10-08-2011, 12:57 AM
The article says "a phone call was made from the couples home at 2:30 AM ". Not from a cell phone or from the mother. Getting rid of a cell phone will not get rid of your phone records. I think we can all agree with that.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/07/missing-missouri-infants-mother-says-police-accused-her/

Which brings up another point. What good would taking 3 cell phones do for the kidnapper if there was a landline phone at the home as well?

dovebar
10-08-2011, 12:57 AM
That also makes sense to me. Also, his facial affect is lot more low-key and non-emotional, and just his face to me is less convincing than hers. But what concerns me more than this vague intuition is that she has a history of raising children - her other two are fine. He's the one for whom this is his first child, and who might somehow snap with the child. Did he ask for nights to get away from the baby's crying?

All that said, I also think it's possible that the police there are just incompetent. It's easier to pressure a woman saying, "You did it! Admit it!" than to go out and investigate the case. I've always felt for people under suspicion because I have a lousy memory and probably couldn't tell you what I did last night, nor would I have others to give me an alibi.

epiphany
10-08-2011, 12:58 AM
Kind of strange you forget to lock the door but you remember you forgot to lock the door.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

mamacita
10-08-2011, 12:59 AM
FWIW I don't see shower gifts. Is that a baby carrier in the crib? A baby tub?

it's a baby bathtub. we had the same one for our daughter. it's not very big. i think my daughter had outgrown it by the time she was just over a year... but we kept using it for a while because i just never went to get a bigger one. but if baby L is tall/big for her age, then they might already be using a bigger tub. i'm guessing this pic is from before baby lisa was born. plus - we keep our daughters bathtub near or in the bathroom, not in her bedroom. it's the type that comes with a newborn net type thing. i think we used that for a few months, then moved on to using the tub without the net. it looks to me that the net is inside the tub in the crib (but i cant tell if it's actually set up or just sitting in the tub (how it came packaged).

anywho - FWIW, this looks to be a before-baby pic. not only the tub thing, but with the mattress being up so high. the crib is very similar to my daughters. they probably just had it up that high until baby L became a little more mobile (rolling over, etc). i don't think we need to worry about it. i think testing the bedding was probably one of the first things LE would have done. :)

EllaMae
10-08-2011, 12:59 AM
Kind of strange you forget to lock the door but you remember you forgot to lock the door.

Not if you only realize it later.

wfgodot
10-08-2011, 01:00 AM
Kansas City Star's article on tonight's prayer vigil:

Supporters pray for missing infant (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/07/3194152/supporters-pray-for-missing-infant.html)
Posted on Fri, Oct. 07, 2011 11:20 PM
---
Several dozen people gathered to pray at Penguin Park in the Northland. They prayed for the little girl’s parents, who went on national television to defend their reputations. For the authorities, who searched a local landfill for clues. They even prayed for whomever took the 10-month-old earlier this week.

Most of all, those gathered prayed for Lisa.
---
much more at link above

HatesSociopaths
10-08-2011, 01:00 AM
If LE can locate those phones, the fingerprints left on them will be of the parents, IMO, and that could help get a confession.

yllek
10-08-2011, 01:01 AM
That also makes sense to me. Also, his facial affect is lot more low-key and non-emotional, and just his face to me is less convincing than hers. But what concerns me more than this vague intuition is that she has a history of raising children - her other two are fine. He's the one for whom this is his first child, and who might somehow snap with the child. Did he ask for nights to get away from the baby's crying?

All that said, I also think it's possible that the police there are just incompetent. It's easier to pressure a woman saying, "You did it! Admit it!" than to go out and investigate the case. I've always felt for people under suspicion because I have a lousy memory and probably couldn't tell you what I did last night, nor would I have others to give me an alibi.

The five year old is her biological son. The 8 year old is his biological son. From how I interpret the court records (kinda like dot to dot), he proved paternity in 2005 and has had custody. I think they both have been primary caregivers to one child; he raising one longer than she. MOO.

Katana
10-08-2011, 01:01 AM
You can find some information at Missouri case.net site.

MyBelle
10-08-2011, 01:01 AM
We have heard about the cell phones. Does anyone know anything about cable? Because while you might not have a hard wired phone line you can get telephone service through cable. My house phone is through Comcast. But we also have cell phones. And I can take my portable phones out into the yard and talk on them. I've never tested how far out they will work I generally sit on the deck.

It would be interesting to know this.


Whether your landline service is handled by the cable company or a phone company, the signal is still carried on the landlines that are in your house. Your cordless phone will work on your deck but it won't work at all if your electricity goes out so buy a cheap phone and plug it directly into a phone outlet so it is there in an emergency.

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 01:01 AM
That also makes sense to me. Also, his facial affect is lot more low-key and non-emotional, and just his face to me is less convincing than hers. But what concerns me more than this vague intuition is that she has a history of raising children - her other two are fine. He's the one for whom this is his first child, and who might somehow snap with the child. Did he ask for nights to get away from the baby's crying?

All that said, I also think it's possible that the police there are just incompetent. It's easier to pressure a woman saying, "You did it! Admit it!" than to go out and investigate the case. I've always felt for people under suspicion because I have a lousy memory and probably couldn't tell you what I did last night, nor would I have others to give me an alibi.

This isn't his first child. One of the boys is his.

wfgodot
10-08-2011, 01:01 AM
If LE can locate those phones, the fingerprints left on them will be of the parents, IMO, and that could help get a confession.
Yes, of course the parents' fingerprints will be on them. They were their phones, after all.

elepher50
10-08-2011, 01:01 AM
That also makes sense to me. Also, his facial affect is lot more low-key and non-emotional, and just his face to me is less convincing than hers. But what concerns me more than this vague intuition is that she has a history of raising children - her other two are fine. He's the one for whom this is his first child, and who might somehow snap with the child. Did he ask for nights to get away from the baby's crying?

All that said, I also think it's possible that the police there are just incompetent. It's easier to pressure a woman saying, "You did it! Admit it!" than to go out and investigate the case. I've always felt for people under suspicion because I have a lousy memory and probably couldn't tell you what I did last night, nor would I have others to give me an alibi.

One boy belongs to Jeremy and one boy belongs to Debbie and Lisa was theirs together.

marge_rita
10-08-2011, 01:02 AM
Not trying to be argumentative at all...but none of us really know what would go through a kidnapper's mind. If there was the thought that it might delay calling for help I can see stealing the phones. It's really no different than cutting the phone lines in the days before cell phones.

There have been several examples posted here about crimes committed where the perps also took the victims cell phones to possibly slow down a call for help. It's become very common.
The phones were in plain sight on the counter, so it would be easy and very quick to stash them in pants pockets.

IMHO...it's not in the realm of impossible, so I have to consider that it could have happened.

Trust me, I've been on here all day and night.
Like others EM I'm discussing and speculating.

If I post what I honetly think happened -as of tonight anyway-I think the baby was harmed at home and the parents threw away, hid, did something with the cell phones.

imo

liz b.
10-08-2011, 01:02 AM
I would hope so but we were discussing why they left the bumper pad and comforter in the crib. That should have been tested also.

I think everything in the house was tested,dusted for prints and so on, I remember reading that LE was doing that at the very beginning. I would be interested to know how many prints there were that could not be matched as being from the immediate family or any known aquaintances...MOO We haven't heard of any. MOO

3doglady
10-08-2011, 01:02 AM
Unless it wasn't the actual crime scene and evidence of a crime was found in another part of the house. :confused:

But it would still need to be ruled out. A good defense attorney will have a field day accusing LE of negligence. Plus if there's evidence of a crime scene in the house I really think we would have heard something about it, with the other leaks coming from LE.

CHICANA
10-08-2011, 01:03 AM
Depends on the job and how much more the pay is for that shift.

If Jeremy asked for it, and on the very first night he does so, the baby disappears, I find it suspicious that two unusual things (working graveyard, baby disappearing) happened on that same night.

So it was either one or both parents, a friend or family member, or someone who had been casing the house.

EllaMae
10-08-2011, 01:03 AM
That also makes sense to me. Also, his facial affect is lot more low-key and non-emotional, and just his face to me is less convincing than hers. But what concerns me more than this vague intuition is that she has a history of raising children - her other two are fine. He's the one for whom this is his first child, and who might somehow snap with the child. Did he ask for nights to get away from the baby's crying?

All that said, I also think it's possible that the police there are just incompetent. It's easier to pressure a woman saying, "You did it! Admit it!" than to go out and investigate the case. I've always felt for people under suspicion because I have a lousy memory and probably couldn't tell you what I did last night, nor would I have others to give me an alibi.

The 8 year old boy is actually Jeremy's son from a previous relationship.

Debbie has only 1 other child, a 6 year old son, in addition to Lisa.

grandmaj
10-08-2011, 01:03 AM
I don't know. Not locking the door screams to me. I lived alone for over 20 years. Then I remarried and always had my husband here at night and he locks up the doors each and every night. When he went into the hospital 2 years ago I actually was in a panic living in this house for the first time without him here at night. I wasn't comfortable at all and checked the locks numerous times.

If this was the first time J worked nights I would think it wouldn't be an incidental to lock the door but more of a real thought that hey before I go to bed I have to secure the house J isn't here.

marge_rita
10-08-2011, 01:05 AM
Which brings up another point. What good would taking 3 cell phones do for the kidnapper if there was a landline phone at the home as well?

I don't think it does any good.

imo

3doglady
10-08-2011, 01:05 AM
I think everything in the house was tested,dusted for prints and so on, I remember reading that LE was doing that at the very beginning. I would be interested to know how many prints there were that could not be matched as being from the immediate family or any known aquaintances...MOO We haven't heard of any. MOO

The crib bumper pads, comforter and bed skirt are still on the crib in the picture. They were not taken for testing.

redfish
10-08-2011, 01:06 AM
it's a baby bathtub. we had the same one for our daughter. it's not very big. i think my daughter had outgrown it by the time she was just over a year... but we kept using it for a while because i just never went to get a bigger one. but if baby L is tall/big for her age, then they might already be using a bigger tub. i'm guessing this pic is from before baby lisa was born. plus - we keep our daughters bathtub near or in the bathroom, not in her bedroom. it's the type that comes with a newborn net type thing. i think we used that for a few months, then moved on to using the tub without the net. it looks to me that the net is inside the tub in the crib (but i cant tell if it's actually set up or just sitting in the tub (how it came packaged).

anywho - FWIW, this looks to be a before-baby pic. not only the tub thing, but with the mattress being up so high. the crib is very similar to my daughters. they probably just had it up that high until baby L became a little more mobile (rolling over, etc). i don't think we need to worry about it. i think testing the bedding was probably one of the first things LE would have done. :)

You are describing the scene as I saw it. This pic looks like a "before" picture. I have several of those from right before the birth marking the day that we were prepared for our new baby!

Kakidoll
10-08-2011, 01:07 AM
Tell me if this link doesn't work. It shows that he is the owner & the last sale date was 11/1/2002. I thought the same thing, no way could I have bought a house at that age. I think it's Deborah that hasn't lived there long. I also wonder why the home phone is registered to a male -last name Netz instead of Jeremy. Maybe someone else had been living there ? Got kicked out & still had a key ?

http://gisweb.claycogov.com/realEstate/realEstateDetail.jsp?parcelid=18115001400500

Netz is Debbies maiden name, isn't it???

AnonymousD
10-08-2011, 01:07 AM
Tell me if this link doesn't work. It shows that he is the owner & the last sale date was 11/1/2002. I thought the same thing, no way could I have bought a house at that age. I think it's Deborah that hasn't lived there long. I also wonder why the home phone is registered to a male -last name Netz instead of Jeremy. Maybe someone else had been living there ? Got kicked out & still had a key ?

http://gisweb.claycogov.com/realEstate/realEstateDetail.jsp?parcelid=18115001400500

Netz is mom's maiden name.

3doglady
10-08-2011, 01:07 AM
I don't think it does any good.

imo

That goes both ways. What would be the point in the mom getting rid of them? LE could easily get the phone records.

CatFancier
10-08-2011, 01:08 AM
I don't know. Not locking the door screams to me. I lived alone for over 20 years. Then I remarried and always had my husband here at night and he locks up the doors each and every night. When he went into the hospital 2 years ago I actually was in a panic living in this house for the first time without him here at night. I wasn't comfortable at all and checked the locks numerous times.

If this was the first time J worked nights I would think it wouldn't be an incidental to lock the door but more of a real thought that hey before I go to bed I have to secure the house J isn't here.

Agreed. I'm a single mom and admit to getting distracted on occasion (okay, often). Two mornings ago, when I went to open the door to go to work, I found it unlocked and knew I had left it that way. Sometimes it just happens and we (me and the other bumbling people out there) say a prayer of thanks.

3doglady
10-08-2011, 01:09 AM
You are describing the scene as I saw it. This pic looks like a "before" picture. I have several of those from right before the birth marking the day that we were prepared for our new baby!

Lisa's hand and footprint pictures are on the wall so it had to be after her birth.

liz b.
10-08-2011, 01:09 AM
Yes, of course the parents' fingerprints will be on them. They were their phones, after all.

And the prints of the phone thief would be there too,right ? MOO If the phones were stolen ? MOO

HatesSociopaths
10-08-2011, 01:10 AM
That goes both ways. What would be the point in the mom getting rid of them? LE could easily get the phone records.

It appears she said the reason the kidnapper took the phones was so they could not call 911. I was a little confused about this - the report said something about her waving a cop down in the driveway?

dovebar
10-08-2011, 01:10 AM
The five year old is her biological son. The 8 year old is his biological son. From how I interpret the court records (kinda like dot to dot), he proved paternity in 2005 and has had custody. I think they both have been primary caregivers to one child; he raising one longer than she. MOO.

Thanks for the clarification.

Can any catch me up on what happened with the neighbor's tip? The couple seemed very sure that they saw Lisa with a man one street over in the middle of the night.

secretagent
10-08-2011, 01:10 AM
At my house this time is referred to as "the witching hour" :crazy:

Ditto, this is when my sweet angle turns into demon spawn.

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 01:10 AM
Lisa's hand and footprint pictures are on the wall so it had to be after her birth.

It was reported that it was taken today before the interview with the parents for tonight's telecast.

CHICANA
10-08-2011, 01:10 AM
One boy belongs to Jeremy and one boy belongs to Debbie and Lisa was theirs together.

Does Jeremy have sole custody of his son ? Could his ex be ticked that another woman is raising her child ? Could it be a situation that his ex felt if she couldn't have her child, Deborah wasn't going to either ?
I see the hink, but I'm not ready to believe it's the parents yet.

DairyGirl
10-08-2011, 01:11 AM
:waitasec:How can LE prove it was mom that used the cell phone unless they had the conversation recorded? LE can prove the phone was used based on pings but they cannot tell who was actually using the phone.

Unless they know who the call was made to and interviewed that person. I could see LE telling that person to keep quiet as to not interfere with the investigation.

grandmaj
10-08-2011, 01:11 AM
What time did the 911 call come in?

Just K
10-08-2011, 01:12 AM
The pictures are from today. Was just on Nightline and the corespondent specifically made note of the fact that they went into the house right after the police took down the crime scene tape. So the question begs, why was all that stuff in the crib, how long was it like that, who put it there and why didn't the crime scene investigators take any of the bedding? Oh, and why was the mattress still in the higher position?

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 01:12 AM
What time did the 911 call come in?

I thought they said 4:04 am

yllek
10-08-2011, 01:12 AM
That goes both ways. What would be the point in the mom getting rid of them? LE could easily get the phone records.

I follow various cases and know a bit about phone records and pings. I didn't know til earlier today that text messages (the actual message content, not just the time/sender/recipient) and pics could be pulled by the service provider. I thought the message content could probably only be pulled from the phone itself. Not a stretch to think the perp (whomever that may be) might be as ignorant as I!. :) MOO.

EllaMae
10-08-2011, 01:13 AM
I don't know. Not locking the door screams to me. I lived alone for over 20 years. Then I remarried and always had my husband here at night and he locks up the doors each and every night. When he went into the hospital 2 years ago I actually was in a panic living in this house for the first time without him here at night. I wasn't comfortable at all and checked the locks numerous times.

If this was the first time J worked nights I would think it wouldn't be an incidental to lock the door but more of a real thought that hey before I go to bed I have to secure the house J isn't here.


I posted this earlier but I will repeat it just for discussion's sake..
I was a single Mom for over 15 years, and I forgot to lock the door several times. I would fall asleep on the couch, or get caught up in something with the kids and forget to check it. Or sometimes the kids would open it to let the cat in, and I'd forget to recheck it. It didn't happen often, but it did happen occasionally.
Now that they are older and in college...I never forget to lock the door because I am not distracted by babies and small children.

DairyGirl
10-08-2011, 01:13 AM
This case reminds me a bit of the Sabrina Aisenberg case of about 15 yrs ago in which an adorable baby (approx 5 months old) "disappeared" out of the parents' home during the night and was never seen again. The parents came under much scrutiny by police and may have been involved but the investigation ultimately went no where. There are 2 other kids in the family, both older.

Anyway, this latest baby missing case reminded me instantly of that one.

I sure hope it doesn't turn out the same, unsolved.

Dr.Fessel
10-08-2011, 01:13 AM
Not if you only realize it later.

How do you realize it later? How do you know you did not lock it?

3doglady
10-08-2011, 01:14 AM
It appears she said the reason the kidnapper took the phones was so they could not call 911. I was a little confused about this - the report said something about her waving a cop down in the driveway?

It was reported that Jeremy's (work)phone was confiscated by LE. Sorry I don't have the link but it may be in the timeline.

CatFancier
10-08-2011, 01:14 AM
So, I'm just not going to let myself go toward thinking of the parents. This little one is adorable and I have to hold on to something clean and nice as long as I can and hope for the best.

That said, what about a past babysitter or even a relative who didn't agree with something going on in the house (for example, recreational drugs, money handling, parenting style, whatever...) so they thought they would "rescue" precious Lisa?

If this person was connected to someone else close to the family (relative married to another relative, babysitter married to a work friend, etc.), they could have used the phone to contact their partner.

Just trying to think outside of the current box we've found ourselves in.

lauriej
10-08-2011, 01:15 AM
Tell me if this link doesn't work. It shows that he is the owner & the last sale date was 11/1/2002. I thought the same thing, no way could I have bought a house at that age. I think it's Deborah that hasn't lived there long. I also wonder why the home phone is registered to a male -last name Netz instead of Jeremy. Maybe someone else had been living there ? Got kicked out & still had a key ?

http://gisweb.claycogov.com/realEstate/realEstateDetail.jsp?parcelid=18115001400500

..so, they do have a land line?

..netz is deborah's maiden name.

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 01:15 AM
Or 4:30 maybe. I'm checking to find it now.

EllaMae
10-08-2011, 01:17 AM
Thanks for the clarification.

Can any catch me up on what happened with the neighbor's tip? The couple seemed very sure that they saw Lisa with a man one street over in the middle of the night.

I've wondered about that too.

3doglady
10-08-2011, 01:17 AM
How do you realize it later? How do you know you did not lock it?

I've gotten up several mornings to find the back door unlocked. My DH always says "Oh yeah, I took the dogs out and forgot to lock it again.'"

gwenabob
10-08-2011, 01:17 AM
Per public records, JI bought the house in 2002.

Really? Wow. I thought a few posts back someone says he was born in 1984. That would mean he was only 18 when he bought this house? That is quite an accomplishment.

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 01:19 AM
I am seeing several times grandmaj....i will keep looking.

secretagent
10-08-2011, 01:19 AM
What would you expect LE would find by testing the bedding?

Ummmm DNA, hair/bodily fluids/ finger prints (on the crib itself) fibers etc. etc. etc.

secretagent
10-08-2011, 01:20 AM
Meeting a deadline?

for holiday SEASON, DEFINITELY

redfish
10-08-2011, 01:21 AM
The pictures are from today. Was just on Nightline and the corespondent specifically made note of the fact that they went into the house right after the police took down the crime scene tape. So the question begs, why was all that stuff in the crib, how long was it like that, who put it there and why didn't the crime scene investigators take any of the bedding? Oh, and why was the mattress still in the higher position?

Thanks. A viable theory may be that the poor child flipped over the railing and hit her head then, cause she is way too tall for the mattress to be that high. I don't mean to be disrespectul at all to little Lisa but if that bed was in the position shown in that picture on the night she disappeared then a terrible accident could have occurred I might also go so far as to say probably occurred.

Perhaps that is part of the deception. She was never put to bed in her room?

Just K
10-08-2011, 01:21 AM
Maybe the neighbors thought they saw a man. A woman can easily dress as a man and in the middle of the night no one would know for sure. The important details would be an approximate height and weight as well as general description...was the person short and squaty or tall and lean, could they see the hair or hair color and what was the person complexion?

CatFancier
10-08-2011, 01:22 AM
Still trying to think up fresh ideas...

Since LE isn't sharing much outside of their opinion of the family at the moment, do we know if any of our "friendly" organizations such as Klaas Kids or LostNMissing have been in contact with the family to assist with their input?

I would think, aside from just plastering flyers everywhere, there should be some effort checking daycares, hospitals, shelters, etc.

marge_rita
10-08-2011, 01:22 AM
That goes both ways. What would be the point in the mom getting rid of them? LE could easily get the phone records.

That's why I said I THINK and why I have imo as my siggy line.
Maybe the parents were trying to make it LOOK like a kidnapping.


imo

wfgodot
10-08-2011, 01:23 AM
Ummmm DNA, hair/bodily fluids/ finger prints (on the crib itself) fibers etc. etc. etc.

Chuckled so abruptly upon reading this I about spilled my tea. Well-expressed!

MyBelle
10-08-2011, 01:23 AM
Thanks. A viable theory may be that the poor child flipped over the railing and hit her head then, cause she is way too tall for the mattress to be that high. I don't mean to be disrespectul at all to little Lisa but if that bed was in the position shown in that picture on the night she disappeared then a terrible accident could have occurred I might also go so far as to say probably occurred.

Perhaps that is part of the deception. She was never put to bed in her room?

I think it is pretty obvious she was never put to bed in THAT bed.

JMO

pferrin
10-08-2011, 01:23 AM
4:04 am 911 call

shefner
10-08-2011, 01:24 AM
Even though this article is from 1995, I found it very informative. It's entitled, "Cradle Robbers: A Study of the Infant Abductor."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_n9_v64/ai_17634825/?tag=content;col1

grandmaj
10-08-2011, 01:24 AM
Not to worry about the 911 time. It is just the timeline in these cases is not what it always appears to be.

I'm going out on a limb here and going to say that releasing the information about the 2:30am call was intentional on LE's part to light a fire under someone. Someone who knows they dialed out on that phone in the house at 2:30am.

yllek
10-08-2011, 01:25 AM
Really? Wow. I thought a few posts back someone says he was born in 1984. That would mean he was only 18 when he bought this house? That is quite an accomplishment.

I agree. It is really something to purchase a home at 18 years old. Seems almost impossible, unless someone in his family owned it before and gifted or sold it to him. Can't see how an 18 year old would have established credit to qualify for mortgage or could have worked long enough to buy a house outright.

RANCH
10-08-2011, 01:25 AM
So the call was made from their home phone meaning they do have a landline phone? I don't know, but if that's the case, it could possibly have been an intruder, the kidnapper, using their phone in order to implicate them. This is a crazy case.:crazy:

I think it means we don't know. Until more info is released about this phone call its hard to say.Was it from a land line or a cell phone? Who was the call to?

CHICANA
10-08-2011, 01:25 AM
Netz is Debbies maiden name, isn't it???

Yes, but it wasn't in her name, I'm thinking it's her brother.

marge_rita
10-08-2011, 01:26 AM
The pictures are from today. Was just on Nightline and the corespondent specifically made note of the fact that they went into the house right after the police took down the crime scene tape. So the question begs, why was all that stuff in the crib, how long was it like that, who put it there and why didn't the crime scene investigators take any of the bedding? Oh, and why was the mattress still in the higher position?

Maybe they straightened the room up after LE left. The room looks clean to me.
The height of the bed bothers me too. baby Lisa is a tall 30 inches.

imo

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 01:26 AM
4:04 am 911 call

Hey...I was right! But I keep seeing other times too. I hope that this is the official time.

EllaMae
10-08-2011, 01:27 AM
How do you realize it later? How do you know you did not lock it?

I have never found my door unlocked and not realized that I forgot to lock it, or found out that one of my kids forgot to do it. It's just something I know if I think about it or ask if anyone went out and didn't re-lock the door. It's actually become a point in my house because of my earlier transgressions and because the world has gotten so dangerous. We are all very aware of keeping the door locked now.

pferrin
10-08-2011, 01:27 AM
Perhaps LE took all the beding that was on the bed that morning. Thsi may have been in the closet..who knows..

I am sure they were thorough..FBI was there that day ..or the next..family didnt get house back till today ..from what I understand.

grandmaj
10-08-2011, 01:27 AM
OK so Dad got home at 4am and then in 4 minutes of checking the boys first then the baby dialed 911? Too tight a timeline IMO.

dovebar
10-08-2011, 01:27 AM
Maybe LE has something, but I wonder why people find it so astonishing that a cute little girl could be taken?

We see in Connecticut a horrific crime where the woman and her daughters were followed home by perps who saw them in public and learned where they live.

We saw in Portugal a little girl taken from an apartment where her siblings slept, in a very similar scenario - a man seen carrying her away, but no one thought anything of it fast enough.

We see worldwide child porn rings being busted up regularly now, and not all the kids belong to the perps. Children are worth money. That's the tragedy.

I really hope sane heads prevail among the cops and real investigation is happening.

elepher50
10-08-2011, 01:27 AM
Does Jeremy have sole custody of his son ? Could his ex be ticked that another woman is raising her child ? Could it be a situation that his ex felt if she couldn't have her child, Deborah wasn't going to either ?
I see the hink, but I'm not ready to believe it's the parents yet.

JI has sole custody and actually went for custody of his son. I do believe that JI's ex lived in the house with JI and their son for a period of time ... as near as I can see. If this was a revenge type thing, one would think that it was a long time coming so no I don't think it was the ex (although the ex would be familiar with the layout of the house). MOO is that the ex lives too far away to be anywhere near striking distance and not close enough to know that JI would be on night shift that night.

I still don't believe it was one of the parents.... I don't think they are involved although I believe that they do have their own suspicions which are making them hesitant in some of their answers perhaps.

This case gives me a headache.

Just K
10-08-2011, 01:28 AM
I think it is pretty obvious she was never put to bed in THAT bed.

JMO

I just can't see LE putting anything in the crib that might contaminate the one place that supposedly is the crime scene. That stuff must have been in the crib before LE arrived on the scene. It has been reported that the family did not stay in the house during any part of the investigation.

MyBelle
10-08-2011, 01:28 AM
Not to worry about the 911 time. It is just the timeline in these cases is not what it always appears to be.

I'm going out on a limb here and going to say that releasing the information about the 2:30am call was intentional on LE's part to light a fire under someone. Someone who knows they dialed out on that phone in the house at 2:30am.

I think it is a very deliberate message of "gotcha!" from LE.

JMO

secretagent
10-08-2011, 01:28 AM
Agreed. I'm a single mom and admit to getting distracted on occasion (okay, often). Two mornings ago, when I went to open the door to go to work, I found it unlocked and knew I had left it that way. Sometimes it just happens and we (me and the other bumbling people out there) say a prayer of thanks.

I have gone to leave for work and found the door locked,my keys hanging in the lock :/ placenta brain.

marge_rita
10-08-2011, 01:29 AM
When my children were little babies, when they were sick, I put them in bed with me and their daddy.

Wonder if Lisa's mom ever did that.


imo

yllek
10-08-2011, 01:29 AM
In regard to my previous post about parents' ages:

I am certain that Jeremy Irwin is 28 years old; birth year for the Jeremy L Irwin at Lister address shows up the same in every data base. As for Deborah Lee Bradley/Netz, I've now found records with 76, 86 and mostly "unavailable" in the "birth year" field in various databases. The media is saying that she is "25years old", so makes sense to assume they have confirmed that is the case.

elepher50
10-08-2011, 01:29 AM
Yes, but it wasn't in her name, I'm thinking it's her brother.

PN (Debbie's brother) is associated with JI on the house.

marge_rita
10-08-2011, 01:30 AM
OK so Dad got home at 4am and then in 4 minutes of checking the boys first then the baby dialed 911? Too tight a timeline IMO.

I think it is too...what's your take on the dad checking the boys rooms first?

mysteriew
10-08-2011, 01:30 AM
That also makes sense to me. Also, his facial affect is lot more low-key and non-emotional, and just his face to me is less convincing than hers. But what concerns me more than this vague intuition is that she has a history of raising children - her other two are fine. He's the one for whom this is his first child, and who might somehow snap with the child. Did he ask for nights to get away from the baby's crying?

All that said, I also think it's possible that the police there are just incompetent. It's easier to pressure a woman saying, "You did it! Admit it!" than to go out and investigate the case. I've always felt for people under suspicion because I have a lousy memory and probably couldn't tell you what I did last night, nor would I have others to give me an alibi.

BBM

She has one child and he has one child. And yes, both seem fine. Then they had Lisa together.

But she is most likely the primary caregiver of the children, or at least she was that night. On the particular night in question, she was primary caregiver of three kids.

Two older (one of which wasn't hers) and a sick infant. Household routine may have been disrupted due to JI on the first of working nights. Baby Lisa had been sick for several days hadn't she? So Mommy may have been working on some sleep deprivation, or at least several days of interrupted sleep. She would have had little opportunity to make that up, because she had older kids to care for. All conditions she wouldn't have faced when she only had one little one to care for.

First there was JI leaving to go to work. Two kids to settle, go through bedtime routine and get into bed. And through it all a baby under a year old who doesn't understand wait, or you better mind. And a baby to get into bed.

So did Lisa go right to sleep and stay asleep? According to mother there is no mention of Lisa getting up. But also no way to verify that. I know that a child with a stuffy nose will frequently wake up and cry. Sometimes prolonged crying. But according to mother she diapered, bottled and put the child in bed. Then she checked on Lisa again at 10:30 pm. How was baby sleeping at that time? We don't know. Even Mom hasn't said that I have seen.

Now my DGS at that age had this uncanny trick. When we put him into bed, he slept great for hours. Until everyone else went to bed and the house got quiet. Then he cried. And he wanted up! Happened when he was sick or well.
Kids this age do wake frequently. They lose their binky, they wet diapers and are uncomfortable or they wake and things are different than when they went to bed. It is dark and they are alone. They get scared. If DGS had a stuffy nose, he woke more often.

But we don't really know about that night with Lisa. According to Mom, she took her bottle and got diapered, went to bed and was checked on at 10:30. I just don't know.

secretagent
10-08-2011, 01:30 AM
How do you realize it later? How do you know you did not lock it?

Go to leave expecting to have to unlock it, and finding it already unlocked?

JEN12376
10-08-2011, 01:31 AM
Not trying to be argumentative at all...but none of us really know what would go through a kidnapper's mind. If there was the thought that it might delay calling for help I can see stealing the phones. It's really no different than cutting the phone lines in the days before cell phones.

There have been several examples posted here about crimes committed where the perps also took the victims cell phones to possibly slow down a call for help. It's become very common.
The phones were in plain sight on the counter, so it would be easy and very quick to stash them in pants pockets.

IMHO...it's not in the realm of impossible, so I have to consider that it could have happened.

but I would think the person would have had to wandered into the kitchen first to stash the phones first before taking Lisa from her crib since there were three of them. He/She wouldn't be able to hold a sleeping Lisa and pick up 3 phones without dropping her. One phone maybe but not 3. If this was a stranger I would think that they would want to be in and out as quick as possible. Who wants to wander around the house hoping that one of the other 3 people won't wake up and hear them.

Dr.Fessel
10-08-2011, 01:31 AM
I've gotten up several mornings to find the back door unlocked. My DH always says "Oh yeah, I took the dogs out and forgot to lock it again.'"

See that is kind of what I am getting at and I have never thought about this before.

Do you really have a memory of forgetting something like that? Or do you just assume you forgot it when presented with evidence?

Is she just saying she forgot because she was presented with evidence that it wasn't locked as in it wasn't broken into?

Do you really actually have memories of not doing something? Or do you just not have a memory of doing it?

HatesSociopaths
10-08-2011, 01:31 AM
Do you think they thought LE would not check their phone records and ditching the phones would be good enough to hide the 2:30 A.M. phone call?

RANCH
10-08-2011, 01:33 AM
Which brings up another point. What good would taking 3 cell phones do for the kidnapper if there was a landline phone at the home as well?

Good question. From what I've read apparently one phone was dead. All three were on a counter and Debbie was manually entering phone numbers into a new phone. Oh, one of the three phones was a borrowed phone from a family member because Deb had a broken phone. Hope this makes sense. So three phones were laying on a counter together.

HatesSociopaths
10-08-2011, 01:33 AM
Have they examined his vehicle for any possible decomp, etc.?

dovebar
10-08-2011, 01:33 AM
Depends on the layout - he could have checked the house quickly, snatched the phones in clear view, and taken the baby. Either to sell all items quickly for cash, or to delay a 911 call.

You can put a phone in your pocket; you don't have to hold it.

shefner
10-08-2011, 01:34 AM
Not to worry about the 911 time. It is just the timeline in these cases is not what it always appears to be.

I'm going out on a limb here and going to say that releasing the information about the 2:30am call was intentional on LE's part to light a fire under someone. Someone who knows they dialed out on that phone in the house at 2:30am.


Why, Yes....of course. And LE knows many of the details, I have to believe. They are applying pressure where they feel its needed.

I don't automatically trust LE in every case. Take Holly Bobo's disappearance.....I think LE has made a mess of that. However, in this case, they were praised early on. LE has been great at providing numerous press conferences and keeping the public informed. I hesitate to turn on them just because I don't like the direction of their theory. Matter of fact, their openness is the very thing we seek in criminal cases. Because of this, I have to relinquish my ideas that this couple is absolutely innocent...and reconsider some things that I had earlier rejected. In other words, I am trying to stay "open."

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 01:34 AM
OK so Dad got home at 4am and then in 4 minutes of checking the boys first then the baby dialed 911? Too tight a timeline IMO.

For some reason I thought he got home at 3:30. But maybe this was the time he got off work. I don't even know anymore, I'm so overtired.

HatesSociopaths
10-08-2011, 01:35 AM
See that is kind of what I am getting at and I have never thought about this before.

Do you really have a memory of forgetting something like that? Or do you just assume you forgot it when presented with evidence?

Is she just saying she forgot because she was presented with evidence that it wasn't locked as in it wasn't broken into?

Do you really actually have memories of not doing something? Or do you just not have a memory of doing it?

In the Sabrina Aisenberg case the mother said she forgot to lock the door, too. (5 month old baby taken in the middle of the night, never found...)

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 01:37 AM
I also remember reading that perhaps in the first day that investigators were seen carrying out of the house baby bedding in plastic bags, but I have been looking for it and can't find it.

elepher50
10-08-2011, 01:37 AM
Perhaps LE took all the beding that was on the bed that morning. Thsi may have been in the closet..who knows..

I am sure they were thorough..FBI was there that day ..or the next..family didnt get house back till today ..from what I understand.

Bags of stuff was removed from the house - the video is not available anymore (at least I can't find it again) but here is a snag of some of the stuff that was removed.

ETA: The link: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/Police-search-home-of-Lisa-Irwin-and-carry-out-two-bags-full-of-baby-items

thanks to norest4thewicked

CHICANA
10-08-2011, 01:37 AM
..so, they do have a land line?

..netz is deborah's maiden name.

According to 411.com by the address, but the info on there isn't always current. I didn't call to find out if it was still connected. I haven't had a home phone in a couple years but my last number is still listed on 411. I wanted to check personal property records to see if anybody else had property registered at their address but the Clay County website isn't available right now because they're preparing the 2011 tax bills or something like that.

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 01:38 AM
Here it is:

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/Police-search-home-of-Lisa-Irwin-and-carry-out-two-bags-full-of-baby-items

MyBelle
10-08-2011, 01:38 AM
Do you think they thought LE would not check their phone records and ditching the phones would be good enough to hide the 2:30 A.M. phone call?

This is a couple that seems to sincerely believe announcing to the public that she failed a poly is somehow to their advantage.

JMO

elepher50
10-08-2011, 01:38 AM
In the Sabrina Aisenberg case the mother said she forgot to lock the door, too. (5 month old baby taken in the middle of the night, never found...)

How awful .. I am not familiar with this case. What was the prevailing theory .... stranger/family?

CatFancier
10-08-2011, 01:38 AM
See that is kind of what I am getting at and I have never thought about this before.

Do you really have a memory of forgetting something like that? Or do you just assume you forgot it when presented with evidence?

Is she just saying she forgot because she was presented with evidence that it wasn't locked as in it wasn't broken into?

Do you really actually have memories of not doing something? Or do you just not have a memory of doing it?

When I left mine unlocked the other night (found in the morning), I looked at the lock and instantly remembered how I was going to go lock the door the night before and got busy and never did.

secretagent
10-08-2011, 01:38 AM
I think it is too...what's your take on the dad checking the boys rooms first?

So let me get this straight- 4 minutes is far too soon to call 911 , 2 hours is far too long, what is the "right" length of time for parental response?

grandmaj
10-08-2011, 01:39 AM
I think it is too...what's your take on the dad checking the boys rooms first?

I don't know. It would seem logical that you would go to the closest bedroom and work your way around. Unless there was a bathroom nearer the boys in which case I could see him hitting the bathroom, checking on the boys and working back to the baby's room.

The 2:30am call from the house makes me start sliding off this fence though because that was never in the timeline and, the way LE is throwing that out there is to me anyway a hint that they want someone to know they know some things that someone hasn't been honest about.

HatesSociopaths
10-08-2011, 01:39 AM
Why, Yes....of course. And LE knows many of the details, I have to believe. They are applying pressure where they feel its needed.

I don't automatically trust LE in every case. Take Holly Bobo's disappearance.....I think LE has made a mess of that. However, in this case, they were praised early on. LE has been great at providing numerous press conferences and keeping the public informed. I hesitate to turn on them just because I don't like the direction of their theory. Matter of fact, their openness is the very thing we seek in criminal cases. Because of this, I have to relinquish my ideas that this couple is absolutely innocent...and reconsider some things that I had earlier rejected. In other words, I am trying to stay "open."

Difference is that the FBI is involved right away in this one because it is a minor. MOO.

There are a lot of maneuvers I see being done that the special agents use after profiling their suspects. MOO.

gwenabob
10-08-2011, 01:40 AM
I agree. It is really something to purchase a home at 18 years old. Seems almost impossible, unless someone in his family owned it before and gifted or sold it to him. Can't see how an 18 year old would have established credit to qualify for mortgage or could have worked long enough to buy a house outright.

That was my thought as well. And he has an 8 year old and is only 28? I know that in itself is not that unusual, but Jeremy seems to have had a lot of responsibility from a very young age.

JoeFromLB
10-08-2011, 01:40 AM
The FBI is searching the landfill again:

http://news.yahoo.com/fbi-search-mo-baby-leads-kan-landfill-191826295.html

HatesSociopaths
10-08-2011, 01:41 AM
How awful .. I am not familiar with this case. What was the prevailing theory .... stranger/family?

Two camps, both strong. Case was severely botched in the investigation, IMO. There are threads here about it. Here is one:

FL FL - Sabrina Aisenberg, 5 months, Valrico, 24 Nov 1997 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

bessie
10-08-2011, 01:41 AM
See that is kind of what I am getting at and I have never thought about this before.

Do you really have a memory of forgetting something like that? Or do you just assume you forgot it when presented with evidence?

Is she just saying she forgot because she was presented with evidence that it wasn't locked as in it wasn't broken into?

Do you really actually have memories of not doing something? Or do you just not have a memory of doing it?
I get what you're saying, Doc. You wouldn't think, gee, I remember that I forgot to lock the door. That's silly. About the only way I can think of that you'd "remember" you "forgot" is if you make a ritual of doing it at the same time each night. In that case, it might dawn on you later that you didn't do it.

EllaMae
10-08-2011, 01:42 AM
Thanks. A viable theory may be that the poor child flipped over the railing and hit her head then, cause she is way too tall for the mattress to be that high. I don't mean to be disrespectul at all to little Lisa but if that bed was in the position shown in that picture on the night she disappeared then a terrible accident could have occurred I might also go so far as to say probably occurred.

Perhaps that is part of the deception. She was never put to bed in her room?


Per my pediatrician...it's highly unlikely that falling out of a crib onto a carpeted floor will seriously harm a baby. My middle daughter was trying to climb out of her crib,and fell out. In a panic I called her DR, and he reassured me that it was very common for babies to fall out of cribs and bump their heads. He said that falling out of a grocery cart onto a cement floor is one of the more dangerous falls for a baby, but not out of a crib.
I think if Lisa had suffered some kind of an accident that Debbie would've called 911. There's no reason not to. Children have accidents all the time.

marge_rita
10-08-2011, 01:43 AM
See that is kind of what I am getting at and I have never thought about this before.

Do you really have a memory of forgetting something like that? Or do you just assume you forgot it when presented with evidence?

Is she just saying she forgot because she was presented with evidence that it wasn't locked as in it wasn't broken into?

Do you really actually have memories of not doing something? Or do you just not have a memory of doing it?

Interesting question Dr. Fessel. I have no problem admitting that I have NO MEMORY of things I forget. :waitasec: lol

If I forget to hang my phone on the charger before going to bed, I still lay in bed thinking I hung the phone on the charger. When I get up the next day, I'll swear I hung it up. :D
imo

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 01:44 AM
The FBI is searching the landfill again:

http://news.yahoo.com/fbi-search-mo-baby-leads-kan-landfill-191826295.html

AGAIN? As in right now? They searched it today earlier...is that what you meant?

Kimmer
10-08-2011, 01:45 AM
Here is my take on a kidnapper taking the cell phone, for the most part I think the general public is aware that phones can be tracking with cell phone pings, So if someone is going to steal a child, why on gods green earth would you want to have 3 phones on you that could show your point of travel, yes I understand they could be dumped but it is not like you are going to steal them and then just dump them right around the corner from where you took them from, So for that reason I think the phones were not taken or dumped by a kidnapper.

marge_rita
10-08-2011, 01:46 AM
Do you think they thought LE would not check their phone records and ditching the phones would be good enough to hide the 2:30 A.M. phone call?

That's what I think HS. There's a chance someone in say a panic mode didn't think clearly about the phone records.


imo

Dr.Fessel
10-08-2011, 01:46 AM
This is a couple that seems to sincerely believe announcing to the public that she failed a poly is somehow to their advantage.

JMO

Dr. Ablow said he thought that pointed to innocence.

JoeFromLB
10-08-2011, 01:46 AM
AGAIN? As in right now? They searched it today earlier...is that what you meant?

Yes, I think so. The article is only 40 minutes old, but it just says "today" as far as time of the search is concerned. I should have gone back to read the whole thread, but I'm just too tired tonight.

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 01:46 AM
I think that link is about the search from today, not right now.

mysteriew
10-08-2011, 01:47 AM
OK so Dad got home at 4am and then in 4 minutes of checking the boys first then the baby dialed 911? Too tight a timeline IMO.

I don't know that it is too tight. Dad may have gotten home around four. I'm thinking he may have been 5 or 10 minutes early. He was traveling at night so there would have been little traffic. When he got home the light was on so he may not have been watching the clock too close. He checked Debbie and kids, found Lisa missing and knew she wasn't of an age that she could run around, she couldn't open the door and she couldn't turn the lights on so he didn't need to make a decision on whether to call or to look for her more.

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 01:48 AM
I think it was just posted 40 some minutes ago but is a synopsis of today. You got me scared there for a minute!

wfgodot
10-08-2011, 01:48 AM
Here is my take on a kidnapper taking the cell phone, for the most part I think the general public is aware that phones can be tracking with cell phone pings, So if someone is going to steal a child, why on gods green earth would you want to have 3 phones on you that could show your point of travel, yes I understand they could be dumped but it is not like you are going to steal them and then just dump them right around the corner from where you took them from, So for that reason I think the phones were not taken or dumped by a kidnapper.
Well-put. Definitely one of the hinkier known aspects of the case to date.

marge_rita
10-08-2011, 01:48 AM
Depends on the layout - he could have checked the house quickly, snatched the phones in clear view, and taken the baby. Either to sell all items quickly for cash, or to delay a 911 call.

You can put a phone in your pocket; you don't have to hold it.

Yes, of course 1 phone can be grabbed and stuck in a pocket. But 3, when someone is trying not to wake up anyone as they kidnap a baby? IDK.

Katana
10-08-2011, 01:50 AM
LE takes clothes and stuffed animals but, not the baby bedding. So extremely confusing...does not seem logical at all.

bessie
10-08-2011, 01:50 AM
This is beginning to remind me of Haleigh Cummings' disappearance. Questions about whether or not the door was locked, where the children were sleeping, what time the father actually left "werk", and a very tight timeline. An intruder did not walk in the Cummings' home and snatch Haleigh, and I have my doubts about whether that's what happened to little Lisa. For that matter, when is the last time we heard of a complete stranger entering a home in the middle of the night and kidnapping a baby?

belimom
10-08-2011, 01:50 AM
Does luminal pick up anything else besides blood? Like mucous, urine, etc.? You would expect to find something along those lines in an infant's room, especially a sick infant. What if the luminal showed absolutely nothing? A totally wiped-down clean room?

Again, just speculating about why bed linens weren't taken. There must be a reason. Either the room is "clean" or LE does not think anything happened in there.

Thoughts?

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 01:51 AM
LE takes clothes and stuffed animals but, not the baby bedding. So extremely confusing...does not seem logical at all.

Can you post a link of where you are getting this from?

RANCH
10-08-2011, 01:52 AM
Tell me if this link doesn't work. It shows that he is the owner & the last sale date was 11/1/2002. I thought the same thing, no way could I have bought a house at that age. I think it's Deborah that hasn't lived there long. I also wonder why the home phone is registered to a male -last name Netz instead of Jeremy. Maybe someone else had been living there ? Got kicked out & still had a key ?

http://gisweb.claycogov.com/realEstate/realEstateDetail.jsp?parcelid=18115001400500

I don't know what to say. When I first checked your link,it didn't work. I check it again and it works but shows Jeremy Irwin as the owner. Not this Netz name I see you all talking about. I'm confused.

Cher352
10-08-2011, 01:52 AM
It was reported that it was taken today before the interview with the parents for tonight's telecast.

News video at this link shows the crib looking just like it does in the still shot going around. The video shot after LE got through.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-fbi-searches-landfill/story?id=14688581

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 01:52 AM
Does laminal pick up anything else besides blood? Like mucous, urine, etc.? You would expect to find something along those lines in an infant's room, especially a sick infant. What if the laminal showed absolutely nothing? A totally wiped-down clean room?

Again, just speculating about why bed linens weren't taken. There must be a reason. Either the room is "clean" or LE does not think anything happened in there.

Thoughts?

Luminol reacts to iron and therefore reacts to blood. This is a simplistic way of putting it.

EllaMae
10-08-2011, 01:53 AM
I get what you're saying, Doc. You wouldn't think, gee, I remember that I forgot to lock the door. That's silly. About the only way I can think of that you'd "remember" you "forgot" is if you make a ritual of doing it at the same time each night. In that case, it might dawn on you later that you didn't do it.

Of course you can have a memory of not doing it. You can think to yourself ...How did I not lock that door? You remember that you did the dishes, put on your jammies, and curled up on the couch to watch TV and fell asleep, and later realize that you never got up and checked the doors even though you meant to do it.

Or you can remember that the phone rang as you were coming in the door with your hands full of grocery bags, and you never went back and locked the door because you were trying to get to the phone and put away the frozen stuff.

redfish
10-08-2011, 01:53 AM
Bags of stuff was removed from the house - the video is not available anymore (at least I can't find it again) but here is a snag of some of the stuff that was removed.

ETA: The link: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/Police-search-home-of-Lisa-Irwin-and-carry-out-two-bags-full-of-baby-items

thanks to norest4thewicked

It looks like they collected dirty laundry there!

I have to agree that up to this point I have been impressed by the job LE has done. I believe they have been up-front with the public and therefore I believe with the parents. They seem to have evidence that points to a different story than has been presented to us and them publicly. In my opinion the family does not want to "go there". Why?

marge_rita
10-08-2011, 01:53 AM
I don't know. It would seem logical that you would go to the closest bedroom and work your way around. Unless there was a bathroom nearer the boys in which case I could see him hitting the bathroom, checking on the boys and working back to the baby's room.

The 2:30am call from the house makes me start sliding off this fence though because that was never in the timeline and, the way LE is throwing that out there is to me anyway a hint that they want someone to know they know some things that someone hasn't been honest about.

I didn't think about that. Maybe the boys rooms were closest to the front door.

That 2:30 am call is definitely something LE wants the parents or someone to know about.

bessie
10-08-2011, 01:54 AM
Here is my take on a kidnapper taking the cell phone, for the most part I think the general public is aware that phones can be tracking with cell phone pings, So if someone is going to steal a child, why on gods green earth would you want to have 3 phones on you that could show your point of travel, yes I understand they could be dumped but it is not like you are going to steal them and then just dump them right around the corner from where you took them from, So for that reason I think the phones were not taken or dumped by a kidnapper.
Well, you could remove the batteries or drop them in a bucket of water. I agree with you, however, that it seems unlikely anyone would take the phones.

gwenabob
10-08-2011, 01:54 AM
This is beginning to remind me of Haligh Cummings' disappearance. Questions about whether or not the door was locked, where the children were sleeping, what time the father actually left "werk", and a very tight timeline. An intruder did not walk in the Cummings' home and snatch Haleigh, and I have my doubts about whether that's what happened to little Lisa. For that matter, when is the last time we heard of a complete stranger entering a home in the middle of the night and kidnapping a baby?

The only case I can think of is from the movie Raising Arizona!

I can't think of a single real life case. Extremely risky. You can't control a baby. You try and pick it up and you have no idea if it will start wailing, alerting everyone in the house. Especially if all the lights are on. And you are juggling 3 cell phones. Who would do that?

Sorry, no. Not buying it. Something bad happened to that baby, and mom, (and maybe dad) are covering it up. The phones were tossed out to try to hide evidence.

MyBelle
10-08-2011, 01:54 AM
Dr. Ablow said he thought that pointed to innocence.

I think it points to a serious underestimation of LE.

JMO

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 01:54 AM
News video at this link shows the crib looking just like it does in the still shot going around. The video shot after LE got through.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-fbi-searches-landfill/story?id=14688581

Yes...that was what I said.

Dr.Fessel
10-08-2011, 01:55 AM
Interesting question Dr. Fessel. I have no problem admitting that I have NO MEMORY of things I forget. :waitasec: lol

If I forget to hang my phone on the charger before going to bed, I still lay in bed thinking I hung the phone on the charger. When I get up the next day, I'll swear I hung it up. :D
imo

Now I have to test this theory out. I have to forget to do something.:floorlaugh:

JEN12376
10-08-2011, 01:56 AM
I still have to wonder who goes to bed and leaves cell phones on a kitchen counter. Even if they are new and you have been putting new numbers in. Especially if you are home alone with 3 children. What if there was an emergency with your spouse at work or your parents or a sibling and someone tried to call you and your phone was just sitting rooms away on a kitchen counter. You wouldn't even hear it. I don't know of anyone without a land line that doesn't keep their phone right near them. I never go to bed without my phone on my night stand and neither does my dh. We don't even have alarm clocks. We use our phones to wake us up as well. Or God Forbid someone does enter your home and you are in bed and you hear something. Wouldn't you want the phone right next to you to make a call out? Doesn't make sense to me.

MyBelle
10-08-2011, 01:56 AM
Well, you could remove the batteries or drop them in a bucket of water. I agree with you, however, that it seems unlikely anyone would take the phones.

or you could throw them into a dumpster, set it on fire and the water from the fire hoses would take care of it.

Cher352
10-08-2011, 01:56 AM
Maybe they straightened the room up after LE left. The room looks clean to me.
The height of the bed bothers me too. baby Lisa is a tall 30 inches.

imo

Since that room was shown in the ABC video maybe ABC straightened it up for the segment because usually we hear that once investigators get though it looks like a tornado has hit.

RANCH
10-08-2011, 01:58 AM
OK so Dad got home at 4am and then in 4 minutes of checking the boys first then the baby dialed 911? Too tight a timeline IMO.

I see what you mean. But what if he got home at 3:55am and made the 911 at 4:04am? 9 mins before calling? Not so bad.

mrsu
10-08-2011, 01:59 AM
The FBI is searching the landfill again:

http://news.yahoo.com/fbi-search-mo-baby-leads-kan-landfill-191826295.html

The couple said police have treated them like suspects and that Bradley in particular has been preparing for the possibility of charges.

Is that normal?

norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 01:59 AM
I still have to wonder who goes to bed and leaves cell phones on a kitchen counter. Even if they are new and you have been putting new numbers in. Especially if you are home alone with 3 children. What if there was an emergency with your spouse at work or your parents or a sibling and someone tried to call you and your phone was just sitting rooms away on a kitchen counter. You wouldn't even hear it. I don't know of anyone without a land line that doesn't keep their phone right near them. I never go to bed without my phone on my night stand and neither does my dh. We don't even have alarm clocks. We use our phones to wake us up as well. Or God Forbid someone does enter your home and you are in bed and you hear something. Wouldn't you want the phone right next to you to make a call out? Doesn't make sense to me.

I'm just speaking for myself, obviously, but my phone goes on the kitchen counter every night. I have a fear of the news reports that say that you shouldn't sleep next to your cell phone because of brain cancer. Plus that, my husband is on call 24/7 so he has his if anyone has an emergency. But, I honestly don't see anything wrong with having the cell phone on the counter.

Dr.Fessel
10-08-2011, 01:59 AM
I keep thinking the phones are missing because one of them was having an affair and they did not think it would mess up the investigation.

bessie
10-08-2011, 01:59 AM
Of course you can have a memory of not doing it. You can think to yourself ...How did I not lock that door? You remember that you did the dishes, put on your jammies, and curled up on the couch to watch TV and fell asleep, and later realize that you never got up and checked the doors even though you meant to do it.

Or you can remember that the phone rang as you were coming in the door with your hands full of grocery bags, and you never went back and locked the door because you were trying to get to the phone and put away the frozen stuff.
I suppose it differs between individuals depending on your habits. For me, locking the door is so automatic that I do it without any conscious thought. I even lock my husband outside about once a month or so if we're both out in the yard and I come in before him. If I ever did forget, I'd never remember that I had forgotten.

Janeumayer
10-08-2011, 01:59 AM
I've been thinking about the crib issue. Maybe the FBI took the whole crib with them as evidence? Maybe the one in the pics is a lent one?

Lastly, Lisa's cold and cough worries me. What if she had pneumonia and died from it? Maybe parents freaked out and covered it?

JMOO

CHICANA
10-08-2011, 01:59 AM
Since the couple has announced themselves as suspects and given MSM interviews about it (and this isn't derrogatory information), just a couple of clarifications to what I believe is inaccurate media reporting (or assumptions) early in the case. This information is only meant to clear up possible inaccuracies related to key parties in the case of Lisa's disappearance and has nothing to do with guilt or innocence.

Parents ages:
Court records show that Deborah Lee Bradley (formerly Netz) was born in 76, therefore she is 35 (keep seeing posts saying 25). I guess the court records could be wrong, but more inclined to belive the media got it wrong or they got wrong information from family. MOO. No records showing divorce/annulment that I saw, but doesn't mean she isn't divorced. Her ex with surname Bradley is 10 years younger and Jeremy Irwin was born in 1984, so he would indeed be 28 (correctly reported).

Marital Status:
There was speculation here that Jeremy wasn't free to marry because he is still married. He has no civil court records on file with anyone sharing his last name, but does have custody records on file with a woman who is the mother of the 8 year half-brother of Lisa. It doesn't appear they were ever married. MOO.

Mods: I think this is okay, but please delete if not. TIA!

The court records I found on casenet - her name & at the Lister address says she was born in 1986.

dovebar
10-08-2011, 02:00 AM
Where is the closest water to this house?

Seems easy enough to take the phones and either ditch the batteries in any trash can nearby, or in nearby water.

When the neighbors reported seeing a "man" with a child matching Lisa's description in the middle of the night just one block over, they said it looked like they were headed towards a house. Batteries could be disposed of in any trash (as could a body, unfortunately) and this person could be long gone in a car with a 2-hour head start on police, no way to track any phones.

It's curious that police said a call was made from the home at about the same time as the child, or a similar child was seen, in the middle of the night, one block over. About 2:30 a.m.

wfgodot
10-08-2011, 02:01 AM
On the very first Lisa thread I posted praise for MO LE, calling it a professional organization which, along with KS's KBI across the river, would do an top-notch job on this case. I must admit, my faith in Kansas City law enforcement has been tested these last couple days. Here's hoping my fears are unfounded.

grandmaj
10-08-2011, 02:02 AM
Now I have to test this theory out. I have to forget to do something.:floorlaugh:

Ha Ha OK I'm on call 24/7. So at night I have to take my cell phone and put it on my headboard. At least 3 nights I can recall I got all nice and snuggly in the bed and then said Ohhhhhhh #$$%% I left my phone on my desk. So it hit me not hours later but I remembered that I forgot. :floorlaugh:

But I've also been very engrossed with the forum some nights and clicked the portable phone to change the channel and answered the TV remote too. :silly: