View Full Version : MO - AMBER ALERT: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #9
imamaze
10-08-2011, 07:27 PM
An AMBER Alert was issued for 10-month-old Lisa Irwin on Tuesday, October 4th after she was abducted from her crib during the early morning hours. As of today (Thursday), no suspects have been identified, and the AMBER Alert has been canceled.
Lisa is 10 months old. She has blue eyes and blonde hair. She is 30 inches tall and weighs between 26 and 30 pounds. Lisa was last seen wearing purple shorts and a purple shirt with white kittens on it.
Lisa is described as having two bottom teeth, a small bug bite under her left ear, a beauty mark on her right outer thigh and currently has a cold with a cough.
Anyone with information is asked to call 9-1-1, your local police agency, or the Kansas City TIPS Hotline at 816-474-8477.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-F3oMoIELBws/Toss1w7hJUI/AAAAAAAAGe8/joul1-4XxSk/s1600/irwinl.png
Thread #1
Thread #2
Thread #3
Thread #4 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150751&page=16)
Thread #5
Thread #6
Thread #7
Thread #8
Please remember the rules. We are not sleuthing random people. Mom and Dad only. We are not talking about parentage or anything else regarding any of the children.
Follow MSM lead and don't accuse anyone not named in MSM as a suspect.
Do not post rumors from Facebook, blogs or other sources. If you can't link you cannot discuss.
Please continue here...
BeanE
10-08-2011, 07:30 PM
Police Interviewing Missing Baby's Parents
http://www.kmbc.com/news/29428139/detail.html?treets=kc1&tid=2659121707813&tml=kc1_break&tmi=kc1_break_1_06190110082011&ts=H
Gardenlady
10-08-2011, 07:31 PM
Teen neighbor questioned, DNA sample taken, article from this a.m.:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-teen-questioned-police-california-tip/story?id=14695496
belimom
10-08-2011, 07:31 PM
AHA! http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-brad...,1316565.story (Reporter David Dunn)
Debbie Netz Bradley IS still married to her first husband.
There WAS an impediment to immediate marriage of JI and DN
Oh... oh... I want to say something!
:silenced:
BeanE
10-08-2011, 07:32 PM
KCTV5_6AM Alex Spearman
@
@NimaKCTV5 is outside the house right now. He's talking with @kcpolice . Working to confirm CSI involvement.
4 minutes ago
liz b.
10-08-2011, 07:32 PM
Have a feeling there will be a resolution to this baby's disappearance very soon...MOO
CN2Souls
10-08-2011, 07:34 PM
The alerts are supposed to be used early in an investigation to warn the area about a child’s disappearance. Mr. B, who lives near Lisa’s home, said his son bought a car from the missing child’s father a year ago. Mr. B said he often would see the mother and her child as he walked around the neighborhood. “I would see them sitting out there on the front steps,” Mr.B said. “I would wave to them.
Gardenlady
10-08-2011, 07:35 PM
Oh... oh... I want to say something!
:silenced:
Say it, woman, lol! (unless it will get you a time out ;) )
I'm intrigued that the reporter summed up his spot with saying that mom has a "chequered past", and would have more details tonight at 10... What other details does he have?!
BeanE
10-08-2011, 07:35 PM
KrisColvin Kristi Colvin
Steve Young just stated "we still don't have any suspects" on TV. So that indicates they don't consider parent(s) suspect I take it.
4 minutes ago
KrisKetz Kris Ketz
@
@KrisColvin ... but "no suspects" does not mean detectives aren't pursuing their own theories based on what they have so far.
50 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply
KrisKetz Kris Ketz
@
@KrisColvin no suspects means no suspects. You are right.
2 minutes ago
BeanE
10-08-2011, 07:36 PM
AmyKCTV5 Amy Anderson
The lines of communication are open once again...between KCMO police and Lisa Irwin's parents. Detectives are with them now. #LisaIrwin
48 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply
PeterAlexander Peter Alexander
#LisaIrwin parents meeting once again w/ #KansasCity PD detectives as we speak. #missingbaby
1 minute ago
Tuffy
10-08-2011, 07:37 PM
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-bradleys-family-talks-about-past-20111008,0,1316565.story
The reporter says they will have more on Ms. Bradley's (mom) checkered past at 10. Her past regarding issues between her and her husband.
curiositycat
10-08-2011, 07:39 PM
I think the 2:30 call has somehow been traced to the teen. Just a hunch. If I am wrong it sure won't be the first time, or the last.
Lavanda Dolce
10-08-2011, 07:39 PM
Thank you, Coldpizza, for your kind remarks on the previous page.
Tuffy
10-08-2011, 07:39 PM
Say it, woman, lol! (unless it will get you a time out ;) )
I'm intrigued that the reporter summed up his spot with saying that mom has a "chequered past", and would have more details tonight at 10... What other details does he have?!
Me too! I wonder if the details might be domestic incidents? Perhaps something like that, that would be public record?
Coldpizza
10-08-2011, 07:39 PM
Bumping for shelby
Lisa Irwin Timeline
A few good news/video links:
http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/1276...er-Cooperating
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/new...#ixzz1a7YeLYOn
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1ZpbdtyLg
Monday October 3, 2011
Abducted by intruder through bedroom window. Far right window of house.
UPDATE—according to police spokesman window may not be correct.
3620 block of North Lister 64117
CORRECTION TO ABOVE GIVEN BY JEREMY IN PHONE INTERVIEW 10-6-2011
Lisa in bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie in bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 6 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room. Point of entry by abductor was unlocked front door, window mentioned earlier was NOT tampered with.
Irwin, an electrician, said he returned from work around 4 a.m. Tuesday and discovered Lisa was missing. Bradley said she last checked on the child around 10:30 p.m., then fell asleep in her bed with her 6-year-old son and a stray kitten they found earlier in the day.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/10/07/2011-10-07_fbi_is_looking_for_missing_missouri_toddler_lis a_irwin_in_kansas_landfill_for_a_.html#ixzz1aDuFH5 lM
Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib. http://www.ky3.com/news/ky3-100-offi...,3181219.story
UPDATE 10-6-11 3 cell phones also taken. One does not even work. Also, dad came home to find front door unlocked, most of the lights on and front window open.
Jeremy Irwin, Lisa’s father, told local media that whoever took his daughter also took all three of their cell phones so they couldn’t call anybody, including 911.
Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG
~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them
~phones were gone
~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.
~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard
~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know
(thank you NBM)
__________________________________________________ ___________________
Other two sons asleep in different bedrooms. (sons are half brothers to Lisa-the 6 year old is Debbie’s and the 8 year old is Jeremy’s from previous relationships.)—Correction. One son—the 6 year old was asleep with the mom and a stray kitten he had found earlier in the day.
Father is electrician that works nights. This night was the first night he EVER worked at night.—Jeremy http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/miss...olice-14688735
Mother is a SAHM--Debbie
Monday October 3, 2011 10:00 p.m. Last seen in crib wearing purple shorts and purple shirt with white kittens on it.
**Possibly seen by Mr. Parscale (a man that lives in the area) according to his wife Lisa around 12:00 a.m. Tuesday wearing only a diaper being carried by a male. Quote from Lisa--“He seen the guy act like he was going to go into a residence,” Parscale said, “but then my husband drove off so we’re thinking that maybe he was just doing that so that my husband would leave.”
**Parscale says her husband saw the man walking on a street perpendicular to North Lister, where Lisa Irwin lives with her parents and brothers.
Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib. Father calls 911 around 4:04 a.m.
UPDATE at 2:00 p.m. October 4 presser Capt. Steve Young speaking—Parents’ story has no holes. Looking into neighbor that possibly saw Lisa being carried by the male. No suspects other than neighbor sighting.
Tuesday October 4, 2011 approx. 7:00 p.m. amber alert cancelled. Lisa is considered a MISSING/ENDANGERED JUVENILE. Per police the alert has served it’s purpose. Police and dogs will search for a while into the night.
*** Tuesday night authorities searched a van and car at the home. There is no word on what police found or were looking for. Officers searching for the child focused on areas near the family's home such as railroad tracks near the north side of the Missouri River and a wooded area behind the home. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-auth...,6273053.story
Tuesday 9:25 p.m.
Mass exodus of police from the command center. Looks like K-9's are finished searching for the night. Police search will continue in AM
by cliffjudy via twitter 9:25 P
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**family stayed with relatives after being questioned until 10:30 p.m.
Wednesday October 5, 2011
9:00 a.m. press conference Capt. Steve Young speaking—basically no new information. Still searching with dogs, however there have been no hits. Parents not ruled out, but also not suspects. Very cooperative.
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** KMBC's Jana Corrie: Children who were also inside the home at the time of the disappearance staying with neighbors
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv
**conflicting reports…unless the Grandparents are being referred to as “neighbors”
NBC Action News reporter Sloane Heller reports Lisa’s grandparents are watching the couple’s other children and have not been able to reach them since earlier Tuesday.
Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz
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Next news conference sometime this afternoon.
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2:00 news conference—Jeremy spoke with Deborah (Bradley?) by his side. Begged for baby to be dropped off somewhere safe. The brothers are waiting to see their sister. Declined to take questions.
Again, Capt. Has no leads, not ruling out anything. 300 knocks and searches. 46 tips. No ransom note. Family is free to go where they would like. Family does not want to be at house.
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**Alleged sighting of Lisa with a middle aged white male and female at a Love’s gas station in St. Joseph, MO I-29 and US HWY 169. Driving older model SUV. Article came out around 5:15 p.m. Surveillance video has been turned over to LE. Police say it doesn’t seem to be a major lead.
Thursday October 6, 2011
**Jeremy and Debbie provided LE with a list of 9 names of people that could be possible suspects.
**Per Debbie regarding cell phones and possible other missing items:
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~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them
~phones were gone
~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.
~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard
~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know
(thank you NBM)
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http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...g_10-Month-Old
** police detectives are meeting early this morning to talk about where to search next.
**per Debbie, “Lisa is very sweet and will go to almost anybody.”
**per Jeremy, window was not tampered with, so perp (s) must have come in through unlocked front door.
**Lisa went to bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie went to bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***Debbie and Jeremy have a heated discussion with LE before speeding off in police car to command center to find out about possible new lead. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lisa...,5671503.story
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**the list of suspects provided by the parents is now up to 12.---suspects all cleared
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Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4
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Originally Posted by BeanE file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Melissa/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif --thank you BeanE
Capt. Young: "There is no doubt they informed us that they no longer wish to cooperate with the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:05 PM
Capt. Young: "We have no plans to close the command center yet, but it will close at some point."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:04 PM
Capt. Young: "I don't have to illustrate how their lack of cooperation hurts the investigation."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM
Capt. Young: "I cannot get into the details of the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM
Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM
Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspect. If we had enough to charge anyone with, we'd probably be pursuing charges."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM
Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspects. From an investigative standpoint we've enjoyed their cooperation"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM
Capt. Young": The parents have intimate information as to what's been going on...our door is open and it doesn't help that they are no longer cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM
Capt. Young: "They've always been free and cooperative up until this point, but they've decided to stop cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM
Capt. Steve Young: Mother and father of baby Lisa Irwin have stopped cooperating with police
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1a39rwETg
"This evening we will be shutting down the command post. We believe we have done all we can regarding geographic searches and will continue tracking leads as we get them or develop additional information," police Officer Darin Snapp said in a news release.
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG
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Family statement: We saw the press conference at 7 PM, and we want you to know we have never stopped cooperating with police.
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 9:11 PM
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3m5ocP3
Friday October 7, 2011
---------------------------------------------------------------
(thank you BeanE for gathering these)
#LisaIrwin's mom:We want to thank everybody who has helped us so far.
1 minute ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: we are not angry, we just want our daughter home, that's all we care about.
2 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: we appreciate everything the police dept. has done, we appreciate everything everybody has done.
2 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin mom: we don't know, which is why we need everybody to continue to look for her...because we want her home, we can't do this alone
21 seconds ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: "he's a good father and he's good to me and he loves her and everybody loves her, but no, there's no way." (about father)
38 seconds ago
#LisaIrwin's dad: hasn't taken polygraph but "if that's what it takes..."
3 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: "what do you say when someone tells you that and you know you didn't do anything."
4 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: volunteered to take polygraph, told failed. Says that's not possible.
4 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: We don't care what anybody thinks, we don't care what they think, our concern is to find Lisa, our Lisa.
5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
#LisaIrwin's Mom: don't have hard feelings, not mad, this is what they (police) have to do.
5 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's Mom: police really nice yesterday, not like that the first time.
6 minutes ago
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**Debbie failed LDT. Jeremy has offered, but LE said it’s not necessary.
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Floor plan of Debbie and Jeremy’s home (thank you Carriebean)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/att...0&d=1317999122
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Melissa/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image003.jpg
**a neighbor in the area also had her dog come up missing the same night. (maybe related, maybe not)
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http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/...96530303.shtml
**FBI cleared all the people that Jeremy and Debbie mentioned as possible suspects.
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PER FOX NEWS REPORT AT 12:00 P.M.
***Call made from Irwin home at 2:30 a.m.—I can’t find anything else about this, so regard as rumor.
**Debbie failed the LDT “MISERABLY”
** Jeremy at work constructing a new Starbucks (company? All Current Electric)
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**Per the great grandfather (see the end of the following video at the 1:16 mark)
The GGFather then says "they are supposed to...with their lawyer offer some kind of statement to the press at a later time...(-00:19)
Then the reporter then says "...as you just heard, the couple has now hired a lawyer .....
http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/1276...er-Cooperating
Thank you to Hazel for finding this!
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***ANONYMOUS TIP—LE searching Shawnee Kansas landfill.
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/new...#ixzz1a7YeLYOn
**FBI: This is the second time they've searched the JOCO landfill. The first was Tuesday - hours after #LisaIrwin was reported missing.
10 minutes ago
**Searching landfill----possible connection to a dumpster fire at 4897 NE 37 st at 2:27 a.m. Tuesday, October 4. Dumpster less than ½ mile from Irwin home. Trash from fire been examined twice. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-poli...,5538504.story
#LisaIrwin update: FBI not saying what, if anything, found at landfill.
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**searching using metal detectors behind the Irwin house.
** possible sighting in California
http://www.kmbc.com/r/29420106/detail.html
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Thanks to BeanE:
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
#LisaIrwin prayer vigil beginning now. http://img.ly/9bGB
12 minutes ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
I also asked #LisaIrwin's aunt if she or family members were getting any sleep. She said, "Not a wink."
38 minutes ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Walking around P&L District with #LisaIrwin's aunt as she passes out fliers with Lisa's picture.
1 hour ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Talked briefly off camera with #LisaIrwin's aunt last night. Asked how her brother (Lisa's dad) was holding up. "He's a wreck."
4 hours ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
About to head out to 6pm missing person flyer hanging & 9pm prayer vigil for #LisaIrwin. Family plans to attend both.
4 hours ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
#LisaIrwin RT @itsvann @CliffJudy Prayer vigil location has changed to Penguin Park off of Vivion Rd @ 9pm
5 hours ago
LindsayShively Lindsay Shively
Just watched a 'nat'l media crew' tape a missing poster to a tree, shoot it then take it down. Not ok. Not journalism.
9 hours ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Family statement denied what police are saying, brought focus back to #LisaIrwin, and even thanked PD. Another statement planned tomorrow.
20 hours ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
What does latest in #LisaIrwin case mean? PD strategy: pressure parents. At very least, KCPD thinks parents not as forthcoming as possible.
20 hours ago
Cliff Judy
@CliffJudy Kansas City
Reporter for KMBC 9 in Kansas City.
http://twitter.com/#!/CliffJudy
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Saturday October 8, 2011
Re-cap—everyone cleared except for Debbie
http://articles.boston.com/2011-10-0...ice-landfill/2
**Possible new lead. Teenage neighbor being questioned. Also, DNA taken from teen. Neighbor was home the day Lisa disappeared and also knew the code to get into the garage.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-bab...ry?id=14695496
--------------------------------------------
Tweets (thank you BeanE)
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
#LisaIrwin's family says parents unavailable right now, but still hoping to talk today. Again, stay tuned.
32 minutes ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Was supposed to do 1-on-1 interview with #LisaIrwin's parents at 11:00 (scheduled talks with all stations). Family's not here. Stay tuned.
34 minutes ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Got call from #LisaIrwin's family this morning. Upset media still reporting no cooperation with PD. Says they talked to feds, PD 2x yest
57 minutes ago
Cliff Judy
@CliffJudy Kansas City
Reporter for KMBC 9 in Kansas City
http://twitter.com/#!/CliffJudy
**Parents agree to meet with police today
Debbie Bradley and Jeremy Irwin had agreed to conduct a 10 a.m. interview Saturday with KCTV5 about the disappearance of their daughter, Lisa Irwin.
The interview was abruptly canceled because the parents had agreed to meet with detectives to talk about the disappearance of baby Lisa, a family spokesman told KCTV5.
This comes after police on Thursday had said Irwin and Bradley were no longer cooperating with detectives. The parents have denied this.
http://www.kctv5.com/story/15647944/...-babys-parents
**Parents trying to set up trust fund to encourage more tips.
Mike LeRette — a cousin of the baby's mother, Deborah Bradley, and a spokesman for the family — said lawyers are now working with the family to set up a trust fund that would accept donations for a reward fund.
Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/08/3194711/missing-girls-family-to-work-on.html#ixzz1aDYVW4N6
Kansas City police confirm they have talked with Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley by phone today.
by Karen Yancey 1:21 PM
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1aDSWbY9n
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Melissa/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image004.gif
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 07:40 PM
I hope it is not the teen. As a mother I hate to see a teenager vilified (sp) during an investigation.....Are we going to far giving details about the teenager?
:twocents:
I mostly just pray Lisa comes home safe.
I don't see a mod in here right now, hopefully one is...but we are not supposed to sleuth people that aren't named as suspects....at least that's what my understanding is.
abstr
10-08-2011, 07:40 PM
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-bradleys-family-talks-about-past-20111008,0,1316565.story
The reporter says they will have more on Ms. Bradley's (mom) checkered past at 10. Her past regarding issues between her and her husband.
I am trying to believe the parents are innocent and I do know that if some of my past came out I might look bad. Nothing criminal or anything but those college years (and maybe a few after)....just glad there was no reality show following me.
I want the focus on Lisa. It is just heartbreaking.
Lavanda Dolce
10-08-2011, 07:40 PM
Wise Words "Capt. Young: The best thing I can say is listen to the voice in your head, if you think you've seen something, please call the TIPS hotline"
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1aEjrxnhq
wfgodot
10-08-2011, 07:41 PM
Kansas City Star is working this story very hard right now. It's Saturday night and they've got a Sunday edition to put out by around midnight too, so I'm relatively sure we can expect something big to happen soon. Biggest day of new story activity yet from KC Star.
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/08/3195138/police-now-interviewing-baby-lisa.html
Lavanda Dolce
10-08-2011, 07:41 PM
I don't see a mod in here right now, hopefully one is...but we are not supposed to sleuth people that aren't named as suspects....at least that's what my understanding is.
Especially a minor child.
belimom
10-08-2011, 07:41 PM
Say it, woman, lol! (unless it will get you a time out ;) )
I'm intrigued that the reporter summed up his spot with saying that mom has a "chequered past", and would have more details tonight at 10... What other details does he have?!
bbm
I can say this: I LOOOOOOVE Websleuths and want to be here a long time. :innocent:
Lavanda Dolce
10-08-2011, 07:42 PM
Kansas City Star working this story very hard right now. It's Saturday night and they've got a Sunday edition to put out by around midnight too, so I'm pretty darned sure we can expect something big to happen soon.
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/08/3195138/police-now-interviewing-baby-lisa.html
Oh wfgodot...the only thing BIG I want to see is a police cruiser driving up to the family home and a social worker coming out the back with Baby Lisa in her arms and a kidnapper on their way to jail! Keep the prayers, keep the hope!
KrisColvin Kristi Colvin
Steve Young just stated "we still don't have any suspects" on TV. So that indicates they don't consider parent(s) suspect I take it.
4 minutes ago
You want to know the frustrating thing? The local affiliate here (tx)just this hour said the parents had been named 'chief suspects by investigators' after the failed LD. This kind of misinformation is unacceptable to say the least.:banghead::furious::banghead: I knew better, but many won't.
wfgodot
10-08-2011, 07:43 PM
Oh wfgodot...the only thing BIG I want to see is a police cruiser driving up to the family home and a social worker coming out the back with Baby Lisa in her arms and a kidnapper on their way to jail! Keep the prayers, keep the hope!
Me too! And everyone here as well. That would be sublime.
Lavanda Dolce
10-08-2011, 07:44 PM
Posted on thread that just closed that the teen being discussed there lives at this house.
I'm just not sure this is a wise idea. There are sickos out there that may want to assume something and "take matters in their own hands." Unless an arrest is made and evidence presented that any teen had involvement...I wouldn't go this route. JMHO
liltexans
10-08-2011, 07:45 PM
Say it, woman, lol! (unless it will get you a time out ;) )
I'm intrigued that the reporter summed up his spot with saying that mom has a "chequered past", and would have more details tonight at 10... What other details does he have?!
That report wasn't biased against the mom or anything. LOL
The details are coming from her "ex" (not really ex) husband so I'm going to have to take them with a big grain of salt. She has custody of their son. I wouldn't expect her ex to necessarily sing her praises simply because of that fact. But if she's such a bad person, then why doesn't her non-ex take her to court to get his son?
BeanE
10-08-2011, 07:45 PM
I'm soooooooooooo glad the parents are having a face to face interview with LE. Soooooooooooooo glad!!!
Coldpizza
10-08-2011, 07:46 PM
Have a feeling there will be a resolution to this baby's disappearance very soon...MOO
Sure do hope so. Please let it be a good resolution but as the minutes tic and the sun rises and sets one starts to lose hope. As a parent, I would never give up
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 07:46 PM
You want to know the frustrating thing? The local affiliate here (tx)just this hour said the parents had been named 'chief suspects by investigators' after the failed LD. This kind of misinformation is unacceptable to say the least.:banghead::furious::banghead: I knew better, but many won't.
Wow! I hate to hear this! That really is some bad info.
Jacie Estes
10-08-2011, 07:47 PM
You want to know the frustrating thing? The local affiliate here (tx)just this hour said the parents had been named 'chief suspects by investigators' after the failed LD. This kind of misinformation is unacceptable to say the least.:banghead::furious::banghead: I knew better, but many won't.
Can you send them an email with a link to the correct info?
abstr
10-08-2011, 07:48 PM
Going back a ways, I didn't think the crib mattress looked super high. Of course it has been a long time since I had a kid in a crib. My one son never tried to escape...he loved going to sleep at night. The other flipped over the rail once and I think it scared him so bad he knew not to try it again.
I guess I look for the good and it bugs me to see the parenting questioned.
All parents have done dumb stuff, not because we are bad parents but we are human.
I don't know what I think yet. I think I am leaning to it really was an abduction.
I just keep praying for Lisa.
Did i read back a ways that she was named for a Grandmother? Lisa is an old fashioned name....(When I was a kid it was so common...but now it's with Grace and Ava, etc. Love those old names!)
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 07:48 PM
I'm just not sure this is a wise idea. There are sickos out there that may want to assume something and "take matters in their own hands." Unless an arrest is made and evidence presented that any teen had involvement...I wouldn't go this route. JMHO
When I asked the question, I wasn't prepared for that answer. It's my fault for asking so sorry about that...:(
Mojen
10-08-2011, 07:48 PM
The report I saw said she had a checkered family past. Husband's mom said she lived with them a couple times during their relationship.
chieftess
10-08-2011, 07:49 PM
I have been gone all day, so haven't been able to catch up..yet
I am in the Northland (Parkville area for anyone wanting to look at a google map for the areas I'm referencing)
My son and I go "power shopping" every Saturday, and we were both quite interested to see how many missing posters we would see today.
North Oak Street Trafficway (major north south artery in the northland)- no signs
Vivion Road - (major east west road in the Northland)- we drove right past Penguin Park where the vigil was held last night - no signs
N.E Antioch Road (another north south road) - no signs
We were in Independence on 40 Highway, Noland Road, 23rd Street and 291 Highway..all of these are heavily congested roads - no signs
210 Highway - just south of the Irwins home and another well traveled highway - no signs
435 Highway driving past the hotel the parents are staying in - no signs
I did see the newscast where the neighbors were putting out flyers around the home, and that of course, needs to be done.
I don't understand the newscast of the young women handing out flyers in the Power & Light district??
Power & Light district...especially in the evenings, is an entertainment/bar/nightlife area.
I'm not saying I would omit that area, but it would NOT be a high priority area within the city.
Very confused
PoppyH
10-08-2011, 07:49 PM
I'm soooooooooooo glad the parents are having a face to face interview with LE. Soooooooooooooo glad!!!
A very good thing! I think LE upset them very badlyJMO, but I think these folks are innocent
Dr.Fessel
10-08-2011, 07:50 PM
That report wasn't biased against the mom or anything. LOL
The details are coming from her "ex" (not really ex) husband so I'm going to have to take them with a big grain of salt. She has custody of their son. I wouldn't expect her ex to necessarily sing her praises simply because of that fact. But if she's such a bad person, then why doesn't her non-ex take her to court to get his son?
The reporter reminded me of one of those crackheads they pull over and detain on Cops.
momtective
10-08-2011, 07:50 PM
I'm just going to come right out and say this..."if these parents are found to be completely innocent and someone else is responsible for Lisa's disappearance, I hope the parents sure the youknowwhat out of KCPD."
What they have put these parents through is unconscionable!
Gardenlady
10-08-2011, 07:50 PM
That report wasn't biased against the mom or anything. LOL
The details are coming from her "ex" (not really ex) husband so I'm going to have to take them with a big grain of salt. She has custody of their son. I wouldn't expect her ex to necessarily sing her praises simply because of that fact. But if she's such a bad person, then why doesn't her non-ex take her to court to get his son?
LOL no kidding. They made it sound like she has a horribly sordid past! And then they mention they also talked to the husband's ex, but didn't go into any detail at all?! By hitting up the exes they're really digging for dirt.
At least, though, mom's ex-inlaws said she was a good mother/person and they "couldn't wrap their minds around" her harming baby Lisa.
Something big needs to break soon for baby Lisa, or this case is all going to go the way of the Hailey Dunn case, with all the family bickering and gossip and airing of dirty laundry!
Just-a-Guy
10-08-2011, 07:50 PM
That report wasn't biased against the mom or anything. LOL
The details are coming from her "ex" (not really ex) husband so I'm going to have to take them with a big grain of salt. She has custody of their son. I wouldn't expect her ex to necessarily sing her praises simply because of that fact. But if she's such a bad person, then why doesn't her non-ex take her to court to get his son?
Very well said. In "matrimonial situations", there is nothing an "ex" (or would be ex) loves more than something "questionable" happening vis-a-vis their spouse or ex-spouse. Oh, boy! Jump all over it. Yes, sir!! If you can get them in prison, you're home free. You get custody. If there's a house, you get that. And no support... the state will take care of that.
So...info coming from an "ex", or even worse, a would-be-ex, should be taken with an entire mine of salt.
SarahW
10-08-2011, 07:51 PM
Sorry if I've missed a lot, but this looks like an abandoned house? Or a really unkempt one. How does this house fall into the story?
There is no name attached to the address (gained via google view) in Knowx. I hope that's an ok sleuth to mention as it produced nothing. There appear to be civilians in the yard speaking to officers, though. I have no idea what the significance is, but you would think neighbors would notice any recent squatter or shenanigans. Wasn't there, per a local, discusison of a nearby foreclosed property being renovated?
If you are out there, local person, is this the non-lived in house?
eileenhawkeye
10-08-2011, 07:51 PM
I think that this case isn't resolved soon, or LE doesn't clear the parents, the media is going to turn against them big time.
BetteDavisEyes
10-08-2011, 07:51 PM
It was absolutely gorgeous in southeastern lower Michigan today, and I tried to spend as much time as possible enjoying the lovely autumn weather. I'm saddened by developments in the case of missing Lisa Irwin and don't want to consider that the parents are suspects in her disappearance. I will continue to hope and pray that this beautiful child is found safe and will be returned to her parents :praying:
kantoo
10-08-2011, 07:51 PM
That report wasn't biased against the mom or anything. LOL
The details are coming from her "ex" (not really ex) husband so I'm going to have to take them with a big grain of salt. She has custody of their son. I wouldn't expect her ex to necessarily sing her praises simply because of that fact. But if she's such a bad person, then why doesn't her non-ex take her to court to get his son?
and he has to pay her child support. wonder if he was on the "list" they gave the LE?
eileenhawkeye
10-08-2011, 07:52 PM
I'm just going to come right out and say this..."if these parents are found to be completely innocent and someone else is responsible for Lisa's disappearance, I hope the parents sure the youknowwhat out of KCPD."
What they have put these parents through is unconscionable!
What has LE done that is "unconscionable"? Asked the parents of a missing child to sit down for interviews?
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 07:52 PM
I have been gone all day, so haven't been able to catch up..yet
I am in the Northland (Parkville area for anyone wanting to look at a google map for the areas I'm referencing)
My son and I go "power shopping" every Saturday, and we were both quite interested to see how many missing posters we would see today.
North Oak Street Trafficway (major north south artery in the northland)- no signs
Vivion Road - (major east west road in the Northland)- we drove right past Penguin Park where the vigil was held last night - no signs
N.E Antioch Road (another north south road) - no signs
We were in Independence on 40 Highway, Noland Road, 23rd Street and 291 Highway..all of these are heavily congested roads - no signs
210 Highway - just south of the Irwins home and another well traveled highway - no signs
435 Highway driving past the hotel the parents are staying in - no signs
I did see the newscast where the neighbors were putting out flyers around the home, and that of course, needs to be done.
I don't understand the newscast of the young women handing out flyers in the Power & Light district??
Power & Light district...especially in the evenings, is an entertainment/bar/nightlife area.
I'm not saying I would omit that area, but it would NOT be a high priority area within the city.
Very confused
Signs, flyers, etc. cost money. Unless there is someone out there offering money to do this, how are the parents supposed to magically come up with the money?
Jacie Estes
10-08-2011, 07:52 PM
Independence Center/Mall would be a good place to hand out fliers.
I have been gone all day, so haven't been able to catch up..yet
I am in the Northland (Parkville area for anyone wanting to look at a google map for the areas I'm referencing)
My son and I go "power shopping" every Saturday, and we were both quite interested to see how many missing posters we would see today.
North Oak Street Trafficway (major north south artery in the northland)- no signs
Vivion Road - (major east west road in the Northland)- we drove right past Penguin Park where the vigil was held last night - no signs
N.E Antioch Road (another north south road) - no signs
We were in Independence on 40 Highway, Noland Road, 23rd Street and 291 Highway..all of these are heavily congested roads - no signs
210 Highway - just south of the Irwins home and another well traveled highway - no signs
435 Highway driving past the hotel the parents are staying in - no signs
I did see the newscast where the neighbors were putting out flyers around the home, and that of course, needs to be done.
I don't understand the newscast of the young women handing out flyers in the Power & Light district??
Power & Light district...especially in the evenings, is an entertainment/bar/nightlife area.
I'm not saying I would omit that area, but it would NOT be a high priority area within the city.
Very confused
southern_comfort
10-08-2011, 07:53 PM
Signs, flyers, etc. cost money. Unless there is someone out there offering money to do this, how are the parents supposed to magically come up with the money?
Media deal, maybe?
abstr
10-08-2011, 07:53 PM
When I asked the question, I wasn't prepared for that answer. It's my fault for asking so sorry about that...:(
You make a lot of really great posts. I think it is hard to imagine that sort of stuff (people taking things into their own hands, etc) when you are searching for answers. While I think the teenager should be laid off for now I don't think anyone thinks you were malicious.
Cappuccino
10-08-2011, 07:54 PM
Very well said. In "matrimonial situations", there is nothing an "ex" (or would be ex) loves more than something "questionable" happening vis-a-vis their spouse or ex-spouse. Oh, boy! Jump all over it. Yes, sir!! If you can get them in prison, you're home free. You get custody. If there's a house, you get that. And no support... the state will take care of that.
So...info coming from an "ex", or even worse, a would-be-ex, should be taken with an entire mine of salt.
Yeah, not to mention that Mr. Ex himself is a logical suspect. Pointing fingers elsewhere could be a defense mechanism for him. (That applies to an innocent ex too, so I'm not accusing the ex husband).
Lavanda Dolce
10-08-2011, 07:54 PM
When I asked the question, I wasn't prepared for that answer. It's my fault for asking so sorry about that...:(
It's completely understandable. We all are trying to make sense of this horrific crime...because no matter what has occurred...one thing is certain. A crime was committed:( Keep the prayers...and always hope.
kantoo
10-08-2011, 07:54 PM
I have been gone all day, so haven't been able to catch up..yet
I am in the Northland (Parkville area for anyone wanting to look at a google map for the areas I'm referencing)
My son and I go "power shopping" every Saturday, and we were both quite interested to see how many missing posters we would see today.
North Oak Street Trafficway (major north south artery in the northland)- no signs
Vivion Road - (major east west road in the Northland)- we drove right past Penguin Park where the vigil was held last night - no signs
N.E Antioch Road (another north south road) - no signs
We were in Independence on 40 Highway, Noland Road, 23rd Street and 291 Highway..all of these are heavily congested roads - no signs
210 Highway - just south of the Irwins home and another well traveled highway - no signs
435 Highway driving past the hotel the parents are staying in - no signs
I did see the newscast where the neighbors were putting out flyers around the home, and that of course, needs to be done.
I don't understand the newscast of the young women handing out flyers in the Power & Light district??
Power & Light district...especially in the evenings, is an entertainment/bar/nightlife area.
I'm not saying I would omit that area, but it would NOT be a high priority area within the city.
Very confused
bbm
Those "nightlife" people might be the sort to be out and about in the middle of the night, LOL
makinwaffles
10-08-2011, 07:55 PM
There is no name attached to the address (gained via google view) in Knowx. I hope that's an ok sleuth to mention as it produced nothing. There appear to be civilians in the yard speaking to officers, though. I have no idea what the significance is, but you would think neighbors would notice any recent squatter or shenanigans. Wasn't there, per a local, discusison of a nearby foreclosed property being renovated?
If you are out there, local person, is this the non-lived in house?
i moved out of the neighborhood in 2006 but as far as i know it is still lived in, it has always been shrouded in trees and fairly unkempt.
Blue Ridge
10-08-2011, 07:55 PM
the only thing BIG I want to see is a police cruiser driving up to the family home and a social worker coming out the back with Baby Lisa in her arms and a kidnapper on their way to jail! Keep the prayers, keep the hope!
LD...that deserves more than a thank you click..... it needs an "AMEN"!!!!!
BeanE
10-08-2011, 07:56 PM
Video of Steve Young's interview tonight:
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-steve-young-kcpd-lisa-irwin-update-20111008,0,6871031.story
abstr
10-08-2011, 07:56 PM
Very well said. In "matrimonial situations", there is nothing an "ex" (or would be ex) loves more than something "questionable" happening vis-a-vis their spouse or ex-spouse. Oh, boy! Jump all over it. Yes, sir!! If you can get them in prison, you're home free. You get custody. If there's a house, you get that. And no support... the state will take care of that.
So...info coming from an "ex", or even worse, a would-be-ex, should be taken with an entire mine of salt.
You aren't bitter or anything are you? :floorlaugh: Sorry, had to say it! I hope my ex or his family wouldn't throw me under the bus but I am a sweetheart!
(Sorry, need some levity)
SarahW
10-08-2011, 07:56 PM
Very well said. In "matrimonial situations", there is nothing an "ex" (or would be ex) loves more than something "questionable" happening vis-a-vis their spouse or ex-spouse. Oh, boy! Jump all over it. Yes, sir!! If you can get them in prison, you're home free. You get custody. If there's a house, you get that. And no support... the state will take care of that.
So...info coming from an "ex", or even worse, a would-be-ex, should be taken with an entire mine of salt.
All except the still-married part which is a matter of law. I presume that he's had some contact from law enforcement, who might have cleared him of most things, except being angry. Or, having a personal interest in the way the case plays out.
momtective
10-08-2011, 07:57 PM
What has LE done that is "unconscionable"? Asked the parents of a missing child to sit down for interviews?
Accused the mother of killing her baby! That imo is unconscionable, especially when LE had absolutely nothing to back the accusation up with. It was a scare tactic and it backfired. They all but poured salt in the parents open wounds. jmo of course :wink:
Lavanda Dolce
10-08-2011, 07:57 PM
Yeah, not to mention that Mr. Ex himself is a logical suspect. Pointing fingers elsewhere could be a defense mechanism for him. (That applies to an innocent ex too, so I'm not accusing the ex husband).
LOL. Sorry. I think this was about the funniest post I've read in quite awhile. I so agree!
BeanE
10-08-2011, 07:57 PM
Missing Baby's Extended Family Discusses Mom's Past
Video report
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-bradleys-family-talks-about-past-20111008,0,1316565.story
liz b.
10-08-2011, 07:57 PM
I have been gone all day, so haven't been able to catch up..yet
I am in the Northland (Parkville area for anyone wanting to look at a google map for the areas I'm referencing)
My son and I go "power shopping" every Saturday, and we were both quite interested to see how many missing posters we would see today.
North Oak Street Trafficway (major north south artery in the northland)- no signs
Vivion Road - (major east west road in the Northland)- we drove right past Penguin Park where the vigil was held last night - no signs
N.E Antioch Road (another north south road) - no signs
We were in Independence on 40 Highway, Noland Road, 23rd Street and 291 Highway..all of these are heavily congested roads - no signs
210 Highway - just south of the Irwins home and another well traveled highway - no signs
435 Highway driving past the hotel the parents are staying in - no signs
I did see the newscast where the neighbors were putting out flyers around the home, and that of course, needs to be done.
I don't understand the newscast of the young women handing out flyers in the Power & Light district??
Power & Light district...especially in the evenings, is an entertainment/bar/nightlife area.
I'm not saying I would omit that area, but it would NOT be a high priority area within the city.
Very confused
Chieftess,
OT I know,but what is power shopping ? It sounds like it might be the perfect hobby for me....
Shelby1
10-08-2011, 07:58 PM
Lisa Irwin Timeline
A few good news/video links:
http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/1276...er-Cooperating (http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/12764007-7d2d-443f-8d1c-cd907f7fac1b/News/Police-Family-of-Missing-Baby-No-Longer-Cooperating)
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/new...#ixzz1a7YeLYOn (http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/Tip-Johnson-County-landfill-search-tied-to-Lisa-Irwin-case#ixzz1a7YeLYOn)
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1ZpbdtyLg (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZpbdtyLg)
Monday October 3, 2011
Abducted by intruder through bedroom window. Far right window of house.
UPDATE—according to police spokesman window may not be correct.
3620 block of North Lister 64117
CORRECTION TO ABOVE GIVEN BY JEREMY IN PHONE INTERVIEW 10-6-2011
Lisa in bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie in bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 6 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room. Point of entry by abductor was unlocked front door, window mentioned earlier was NOT tampered with.
Irwin, an electrician, said he returned from work around 4 a.m. Tuesday and discovered Lisa was missing. Bradley said she last checked on the child around 10:30 p.m., then fell asleep in her bed with her 6-year-old son and a stray kitten they found earlier in the day.
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/10/07/2011-10-07_fbi_is_looking_for_missing_missouri_toddler_lis a_irwin_in_kansas_landfill_for_a_.html#ixzz1aDuFH5 lM (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/10/07/2011-10-07_fbi_is_looking_for_missing_missouri_toddler_lis a_irwin_in_kansas_landfill_for_a_.html#ixzz1aDuFH5 lM)
Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib. http://www.ky3.com/news/ky3-100-officers-search-for-abducted-baby-in-kansas-city-20111004,0,3181219.story
UPDATE 10-6-11 3 cell phones also taken. One does not even work. Also, dad came home to find front door unlocked, most of the lights on and front window open.
Jeremy Irwin, Lisa’s father, told local media that whoever took his daughter also took all three of their cell phones so they couldn’t call anybody, including 911.
Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG)
~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them
~phones were gone
~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.
~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard
~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know
(thank you NBM)
__________________________________________________ ___________________
Other two sons asleep in different bedrooms. (sons are half brothers to Lisa-the 6 year old is Debbie’s and the 8 year old is Jeremy’s from previous relationships.)—Correction. One son—the 6 year old was asleep with the mom and a stray kitten he had found earlier in the day.
Father is electrician that works nights. This night was the first night he EVER worked at night.—Jeremy http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/miss...olice-14688735 (http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisa-irwins-parents-stop-cooperating-police-14688735)
Mother is a SAHM--Debbie
Monday October 3, 2011 10:00 p.m. Last seen in crib wearing purple shorts and purple shirt with white kittens on it.
**Possibly seen by Mr. Parscale (a man that lives in the area) according to his wife Lisa around 12:00 a.m. Tuesday wearing only a diaper being carried by a male. Quote from Lisa--“He seen the guy act like he was going to go into a residence,” Parscale said, “but then my husband drove off so we’re thinking that maybe he was just doing that so that my husband would leave.”
**Parscale says her husband saw the man walking on a street perpendicular to North Lister, where Lisa Irwin lives with her parents and brothers.
Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib. Father calls 911 around 4:04 a.m.
UPDATE at 2:00 p.m. October 4 presser Capt. Steve Young speaking—Parents’ story has no holes. Looking into neighbor that possibly saw Lisa being carried by the male. No suspects other than neighbor sighting.
Tuesday October 4, 2011 approx. 7:00 p.m. amber alert cancelled. Lisa is considered a MISSING/ENDANGERED JUVENILE. Per police the alert has served it’s purpose. Police and dogs will search for a while into the night.
*** Tuesday night authorities searched a van and car at the home. There is no word on what police found or were looking for. Officers searching for the child focused on areas near the family's home such as railroad tracks near the north side of the Missouri River and a wooded area behind the home. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-authorities-continue-search-for-missing-baby-20111005,0,6273053.story
Tuesday 9:25 p.m.
Mass exodus of police from the command center. Looks like K-9's are finished searching for the night. Police search will continue in AM
by cliffjudy via twitter (http://twitter.com/CliffJudy/status/121410556468015104) 9:25 P
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**family stayed with relatives after being questioned until 10:30 p.m.
Wednesday October 5, 2011
9:00 a.m. press conference Capt. Steve Young speaking—basically no new information. Still searching with dogs, however there have been no hits. Parents not ruled out, but also not suspects. Very cooperative.
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** KMBC's Jana Corrie: Children who were also inside the home at the time of the disappearance staying with neighbors
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv)
**conflicting reports…unless the Grandparents are being referred to as “neighbors”
NBC Action News reporter Sloane Heller reports Lisa’s grandparents are watching the couple’s other children and have not been able to reach them since earlier Tuesday.
Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz (http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz)
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Next news conference sometime this afternoon.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2:00 news conference—Jeremy spoke with Deborah (Bradley?) by his side. Begged for baby to be dropped off somewhere safe. The brothers are waiting to see their sister. Declined to take questions.
Again, Capt. Has no leads, not ruling out anything. 300 knocks and searches. 46 tips. No ransom note. Family is free to go where they would like. Family does not want to be at house.
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**Alleged sighting of Lisa with a middle aged white male and female at a Love’s gas station in St. Joseph, MO I-29 and US HWY 169. Driving older model SUV. Article came out around 5:15 p.m. Surveillance video has been turned over to LE. Police say it doesn’t seem to be a major lead.
Thursday October 6, 2011
**Jeremy and Debbie provided LE with a list of 9 names of people that could be possible suspects.
**Per Debbie regarding cell phones and possible other missing items:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them
~phones were gone
~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.
~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard
~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know
(thank you NBM)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old
** police detectives are meeting early this morning to talk about where to search next.
**per Debbie, “Lisa is very sweet and will go to almost anybody.”
**per Jeremy, window was not tampered with, so perp (s) must have come in through unlocked front door.
**Lisa went to bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie went to bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room.
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***Debbie and Jeremy have a heated discussion with LE before speeding off in police car to command center to find out about possible new lead. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lisa-irwin-parents-have-heated-discussion-with-police-20111006,0,5671503.story
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**the list of suspects provided by the parents is now up to 12.---suspects all cleared
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Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4 (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4)
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Originally Posted by BeanE file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Melissa/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.gif--thank you BeanE
Capt. Young: "There is no doubt they informed us that they no longer wish to cooperate with the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:05 PM
Capt. Young: "We have no plans to close the command center yet, but it will close at some point."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:04 PM
Capt. Young: "I don't have to illustrate how their lack of cooperation hurts the investigation."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM
Capt. Young: "I cannot get into the details of the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM
Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM
Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspect. If we had enough to charge anyone with, we'd probably be pursuing charges."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM
Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspects. From an investigative standpoint we've enjoyed their cooperation"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM
Capt. Young": The parents have intimate information as to what's been going on...our door is open and it doesn't help that they are no longer cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM
Capt. Young: "They've always been free and cooperative up until this point, but they've decided to stop cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM
Capt. Steve Young: Mother and father of baby Lisa Irwin have stopped cooperating with police
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1a39rwETg (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a39rwETg)
"This evening we will be shutting down the command post. We believe we have done all we can regarding geographic searches and will continue tracking leads as we get them or develop additional information," police Officer Darin Snapp said in a news release.
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Family statement: We saw the press conference at 7 PM, and we want you to know we have never stopped cooperating with police.
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 9:11 PM
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3m5ocP3 (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3m5ocP3)
Friday October 7, 2011
---------------------------------------------------------------
(thank you BeanE for gathering these)
#LisaIrwin's mom:We want to thank everybody who has helped us so far.
1 minute ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: we are not angry, we just want our daughter home, that's all we care about.
2 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: we appreciate everything the police dept. has done, we appreciate everything everybody has done.
2 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin mom: we don't know, which is why we need everybody to continue to look for her...because we want her home, we can't do this alone
21 seconds ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: "he's a good father and he's good to me and he loves her and everybody loves her, but no, there's no way." (about father)
38 seconds ago
#LisaIrwin's dad: hasn't taken polygraph but "if that's what it takes..."
3 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: "what do you say when someone tells you that and you know you didn't do anything."
4 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: volunteered to take polygraph, told failed. Says that's not possible.
4 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's mom: We don't care what anybody thinks, we don't care what they think, our concern is to find Lisa, our Lisa.
5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply
#LisaIrwin's Mom: don't have hard feelings, not mad, this is what they (police) have to do.
5 minutes ago
#LisaIrwin's Mom: police really nice yesterday, not like that the first time.
6 minutes ago
-------------------------------------------------------------
**Debbie failed LDT. Jeremy has offered, but LE said it’s not necessary.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Floor plan of Debbie and Jeremy’s home (thank you Carriebean)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19070&d=1317999122
file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Melissa/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image003.jpg
**a neighbor in the area also had her dog come up missing the same night. (maybe related, maybe not)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml
**FBI cleared all the people that Jeremy and Debbie mentioned as possible suspects.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PER FOX NEWS REPORT AT 12:00 P.M.
***Call made from Irwin home at 2:30 a.m.—I can’t find anything else about this, so regard as rumor.
**Debbie failed the LDT “MISERABLY”
** Jeremy at work constructing a new Starbucks (company? All Current Electric)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
**Per the great grandfather (see the end of the following video at the 1:16 mark)
The GGFather then says "they are supposed to...with their lawyer offer some kind of statement to the press at a later time...(-00:19)
Then the reporter then says "...as you just heard, the couple has now hired a lawyer .....
http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/1276...er-Cooperating (http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/12764007-7d2d-443f-8d1c-cd907f7fac1b/News/Police-Family-of-Missing-Baby-No-Longer-Cooperating)
Thank you to Hazel for finding this!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***ANONYMOUS TIP—LE searching Shawnee Kansas landfill.
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/Tip-Johnson-County-landfill-search-tied-to-Lisa-Irwin-case#ixzz1a7YeLYOn
**FBI: This is the second time they've searched the JOCO landfill. The first was Tuesday - hours after #LisaIrwin was reported missing.
10 minutes ago
**Searching landfill----possible connection to a dumpster fire at 4897 NE 37 st at 2:27 a.m. Tuesday, October 4. Dumpster less than ½ mile from Irwin home. Trash from fire been examined twice. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-police-search-landfill-police-scour-landfill-in-search-of-baby-lisa-20111007,0,5538504.story
#LisaIrwin update: FBI not saying what, if anything, found at landfill.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
**searching using metal detectors behind the Irwin house.
** possible sighting in California
http://www.kmbc.com/r/29420106/detail.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to BeanE:
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
#LisaIrwin prayer vigil beginning now. http://img.ly/9bGB
12 minutes ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
I also asked #LisaIrwin's aunt if she or family members were getting any sleep. She said, "Not a wink."
38 minutes ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Walking around P&L District with #LisaIrwin's aunt as she passes out fliers with Lisa's picture.
1 hour ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Talked briefly off camera with #LisaIrwin's aunt last night. Asked how her brother (Lisa's dad) was holding up. "He's a wreck."
4 hours ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
About to head out to 6pm missing person flyer hanging & 9pm prayer vigil for #LisaIrwin. Family plans to attend both.
4 hours ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
#LisaIrwin RT @itsvann @CliffJudy Prayer vigil location has changed to Penguin Park off of Vivion Rd @ 9pm
5 hours ago
LindsayShively Lindsay Shively
Just watched a 'nat'l media crew' tape a missing poster to a tree, shoot it then take it down. Not ok. Not journalism.
9 hours ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Family statement denied what police are saying, brought focus back to #LisaIrwin, and even thanked PD. Another statement planned tomorrow.
20 hours ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
What does latest in #LisaIrwin case mean? PD strategy: pressure parents. At very least, KCPD thinks parents not as forthcoming as possible.
20 hours ago
Cliff Judy
@CliffJudy Kansas City
Reporter for KMBC 9 in Kansas City.
http://twitter.com/#!/CliffJudy (http://twitter.com/#%21/CliffJudy)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Saturday October 8, 2011
Re-cap—everyone cleared except for Debbie
http://articles.boston.com/2011-10-07/news/30255015_1_fbi-agents-kansas-city-police-landfill/2
**Possible new lead. Teenage neighbor being questioned. Also, DNA taken from teen. Neighbor was home the day Lisa disappeared and also knew the code to get into the garage.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-teen-questioned-police-california-tip/story?id=14695496
--------------------------------------------
Tweets (thank you BeanE)
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
#LisaIrwin's family says parents unavailable right now, but still hoping to talk today. Again, stay tuned.
32 minutes ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Was supposed to do 1-on-1 interview with #LisaIrwin's parents at 11:00 (scheduled talks with all stations). Family's not here. Stay tuned.
34 minutes ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Got call from #LisaIrwin's family this morning. Upset media still reporting no cooperation with PD. Says they talked to feds, PD 2x yest
57 minutes ago
Cliff Judy
@CliffJudy Kansas City
Reporter for KMBC 9 in Kansas City
http://twitter.com/#!/CliffJudy (http://twitter.com/#%21/CliffJudy)
**Parents agree to meet with police today
Debbie Bradley and Jeremy Irwin had agreed to conduct a 10 a.m. interview Saturday with KCTV5 about the disappearance of their daughter, Lisa Irwin.
The interview was abruptly canceled because the parents had agreed to meet with detectives to talk about the disappearance of baby Lisa, a family spokesman told KCTV5.
This comes after police on Thursday had said Irwin and Bradley were no longer cooperating with detectives. The parents have denied this.
http://www.kctv5.com/story/15647944/police-again-questioning-missing-babys-parents
**Parents trying to set up trust fund to encourage more tips.
Mike LeRette — a cousin of the baby's mother, Deborah Bradley, and a spokesman for the family — said lawyers are now working with the family to set up a trust fund that would accept donations for a reward fund.
Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/08/3194711/missing-girls-family-to-work-on.html#ixzz1aDYVW4N6 (http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/08/3194711/missing-girls-family-to-work-on.html#ixzz1aDYVW4N6)
Kansas City police confirm they have talked with Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley by phone today.
by Karen Yancey 1:21 PM
Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1aDSWbY9n (http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1aDSWbY9n)
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
CSI crew is back at the #LisaIrwin home with metal detectors. http://img.ly/9dL6
2 minutes ago
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
CSI crew now scanning the front yard at #LisaIrwin house. Offc says Capt. Young will be here shortly to explain.
1 minute ago
NimaKCTV5 Nima Shaffe
Detectives from @kcpolice at this home in #LisaIrwin neighborhood for the second time.
KCTV5_6AM Alex Spearman
@kcpolice say parents of #LisaIrwin are sitting down with investigators right now.
2 minutes ago
NimaKCTV5 (http://yfrog.com/user/NimaKCTV5/profile) 2 hours 14 mins ago Twitter (http://twitter.com/)
Detectives from @kcpolice (http://yfrog.com/user/kcpolice/profile) at this home in #LisaIrwin (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23LisaIrwin) neighborhood for the second time. Updates on #KCTV5 (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23KCTV5) News at 6 & 10 yfrog.com/nv3btaj (http://yfrog.com/nv3btaj)--
**the above is the teen neighbor’s house.
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-brad...,1316565.story (Reporter David Dunn)
Debbie Netz Bradley IS still married to her first husband.
myKCTV5 Amy Anderson
The lines of communication are open once again...between KCMO police and Lisa Irwin's parents. Detectives are with them now. #LisaIrwin
48 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply
PeterAlexander Peter Alexander
#LisaIrwin parents meeting once again w/ #KansasCity PD detectives as we speak. #missingbaby
1 minute ago
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 07:59 PM
The reporter reminded me of one of those crackheads they pull over and detain on Cops.
LOL
:laughcry::laughitup: :laughcry::laughitup:
~n/t~
10-08-2011, 07:59 PM
Video of Steve Young's interview tonight:
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-steve-young-kcpd-lisa-irwin-update-20111008,0,6871031.story
I thought they shut down the command post? :waitasec:
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 08:00 PM
Media deal, maybe?
Yes, but the supposed media deal didn't happen until yesterday, if it even happened at all. Give it a chance....
MyBelle
10-08-2011, 08:01 PM
Going back a ways, I didn't think the crib mattress looked super high. Of course it has been a long time since I had a kid in a crib. My one son never tried to escape...he loved going to sleep at night. The other flipped over the rail once and I think it scared him so bad he knew not to try it again.
I guess I look for the good and it bugs me to see the parenting questioned.
All parents have done dumb stuff, not because we are bad parents but we are human.
I don't know what I think yet. I think I am leaning to it really was an abduction.
I just keep praying for Lisa.
Did i read back a ways that she was named for a Grandmother? Lisa is an old fashioned name....(When I was a kid it was so common...but now it's with Grace and Ava, etc. Love those old names!)
The parents are inviting the public questioning by stopping their cooperation with LE and telling the media the mother failed the poly.
I think the height of the mattress in the crib is unusual, I think the stuff stacked on top is unusual as is the infant swing right next to the crib. Lisa would be too large for such a swing now. Was it all assembled because one parent was moving out and taking Lisa? So much we still don't know.
JMO
cj1132
10-08-2011, 08:01 PM
I still believe 100% that the parents are not responsible for Lisa's disappearance. However, I think the mom may have a good idea of who could be responsible, and maybe in her mind, by not naming the person, she's keeping Lisa alive. Again JMO.
I will admit that I'm not a good sleuth. I don't watch all the videos, read every article,. I know it's not scientific but I listen with my heart. My heart says they didn't do it. Am I always right? Absolutely not but it's amazing how many times I am.
Just-a-Guy
10-08-2011, 08:02 PM
You aren't bitter or anything are you? :floorlaugh: Sorry, had to say it! I hope my ex or his family wouldn't throw me under the bus but I am a sweetheart!
(Sorry, need some levity)
Not bitter at all, anything but. My wife and I have always had a wonderful relationship. She's a matrimonial lawyer. So I learned a long time ago not to argue with her. :)
On a serious note... I do kind of know the tactics and the viciousness of ugly divorces. Both my wife and I have walked clients through far too many of them. Plus, she was Chief Court Attorney for a matrimonial judge for several years. The stuff you see..... [shudder]
And yes, as someone said, "having an interest in the outcome" is exactly what I'm talking about....
abstr
10-08-2011, 08:02 PM
The grandmother of the child on the mother's side (Debbie's mom) died in 2001. Here is some info on that:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=23510022
There was an earlier rumor posted about this - I was at least able to confirm that she did indeed die in 2001. I have not found any further info surrounding the death, but am curious what the exact circumstances were, considering the information from the rumor looks to be relatively accurate at this point.
Thank you. Wow, these folks are young! Or am I old? Does anyone know Lisa's parents ages?
southern_comfort
10-08-2011, 08:03 PM
Yes, but the supposed media deal didn't happen until yesterday, if it even happened at all. Give it a chance....
I'm pretty sure the network would cut them a check for signs and posters.
They have a funding source.
Can you send them an email with a link to the correct info?
Oh, yes. Done.
Lavanda Dolce
10-08-2011, 08:03 PM
Keep in mind, many do not know but missing posters are not allowed to be hung up on city property, telephone poles or light poles. The best places to hang posters are in high traffic areas like gas stations, convenient food marts , bus stations, airports, and even those one needs to ask permission. Handing them out on street corners is prohibited in some cities and they prefer you stand out front of grocery store to hand out as patrons enter or exit. (with permission from store) Quite honestly I cannot imagine anyone who lives in that area who is not aware of Baby Lisa and her missing status. Focus areas should be places outside of the parameters of where she went missing as another good source of hanging posters.
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 08:03 PM
You make a lot of really great posts. I think it is hard to imagine that sort of stuff (people taking things into their own hands, etc) when you are searching for answers. While I think the teenager should be laid off for now I don't think anyone thinks you were malicious.
Thank you! I appreciate that! :)
Malicious is not me at all....clueless maybe..haha
chieftess
10-08-2011, 08:04 PM
Chieftess,
OT I know,but what is power shopping ? It sounds like it might be the perfect hobby for me....
LOL! We start at about 9 to 9:30 in the morning, pick an area of the city and hit every store and estate sale we can find, all while winding our way back towards home, getting done around 4pm. Non stop all day shopping! :crazy:
Just-a-Guy
10-08-2011, 08:04 PM
The parents are inviting the public questioning by stopping their cooperation with LE and telling the media the mother failed the poly.
I think the height of the mattress in the crib is unusual, I think the stuff stacked on top is unusual as is the infant swing right next to the crib. Lisa would be too large for such a swing now. Was it all assembled because one parent was moving out and taking Lisa? So much we still don't know.
JMO
It has been said several times already, but I'll say it again: the pic of the crib was not proven to have been taken at a time relevant to this case. It looks like a pic taken when the baby room was not even yet being used. There is NO reason to assume that the setup seen in that pic was actually being used at the time of the child's disappearance. None at all. Zero.
FloridaBunny
10-08-2011, 08:05 PM
http://www.kmbc.com/slideshow/news/29427385/detail.html
A lot of people are discussing the height of the crib bedding and if the baby might have fallen or climbed out, possibly to chase the kitten. This photo shows the crib with two plastic storage boxes and a baby seat stacked in it.
Under the picture it states that this is where the baby was sleeping when she was taken. I am curious as to who, what, how, when and why, those items were put into the crib.
I find it very curious in fact. Why would they ever be in there? And why would they be put there after the baby was taken? That just does not make any sense to me at all.
Does anyone else have an opinion or information regarding this specific matter?
Cappuccino
10-08-2011, 08:05 PM
The parents are inviting the public questioning by stopping their cooperation with LE and telling the media the mother failed the poly.
I think the height of the mattress in the crib is unusual, I think the stuff stacked on top is unusual as is the infant swing right next to the crib. Lisa would be too large for such a swing now. Was it all assembled because one parent was moving out and taking Lisa? So much we still don't know.
JMO
Wasn't that the photo taken after LE had finished searching the room? IOW, that's the way LE left the room, not the way it was before they started searching.
Donjeta
10-08-2011, 08:05 PM
Bradley's grandfather, David Netz Sr., said the couple was exhausted.
"They would come in and say, 'OK, Jeremy said this, and they'd go back to Jeremy and say Deb said this and that," Netz said. "When you're tired and worried about your baby, you're bound to make itty, bitty mistakes in time lines."
Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/news/29428139/detail.html#ixzz1aEpm1rKf
I take it the police are suspicious because the parents are unable to agree on a consistent timeline.
Lavanda Dolce
10-08-2011, 08:05 PM
The parents are inviting the public questioning by stopping their cooperation with LE and telling the media the mother failed the poly.
I think the height of the mattress in the crib is unusual, I think the stuff stacked on top is unusual as is the infant swing right next to the crib. Lisa would be too large for such a swing now. Was it all assembled because one parent was moving out and taking Lisa? So much we still don't know.
JMO
The stuff could have been placed there from LE as they were doing a sweep of the bedroom. As for the baby swing, to me it was a "piece of furniture" and I kept in the baby's room even though he was not using it as I had friends with small babies and would drag it out when they came to visit.
Mojen
10-08-2011, 08:06 PM
Thank you. Wow, these folks are young! Or am I old? Does anyone know Lisa's parents ages?
Jeremy was born in 82 and Deborah in 86 (I think).
I am pretty sure Deborah's marriage certificate said 86.
FloridaBunny
10-08-2011, 08:07 PM
It has been said several times already, but I'll say it again: the pic of the crib was not proven to have been taken at a time relevant to this case. It looks like a pic taken when the baby room was not even yet being used. There is NO reason to assume that the setup seen in that pic was actually being used at the time of the child's disappearance. None at all. Zero.
We all must have been typing at the same time. The photo that is referenced in my post states that the reporter was allowed a tour of the home. Therefore I am presuming that the photographer with that reporter took the photo while they were there after the baby disappeared. Otherwise, why show that picture?
abstr
10-08-2011, 08:07 PM
Not bitter at all, anything but. My wife and I have always had a wonderful relationship. She's a matrimonial lawyer. So I learned a long time ago not to argue with her. :)
On a serious note... I do kind of know the tactics and the viciousness of ugly divorces. Both my wife and I have walked clients through far too many of them. Plus, she was Chief Court Attorney for a matrimonial judge for several years. The stuff you see..... [shudder]
And yes, as someone said, "having an interest in the outcome" is exactly what I'm talking about....
Sorry. Didn't mean offense. I somehow had a very amicable divorce. Was it always pretty? Hell no....but I just don't get that if you made kids with someone that you wouldn't support them. By support I mean in raising the kids, etc. not talking money. Since we had no money that was no issue...lol
On the other hand....some people get screwed.
And, Your wife must be some kinda awesome if you married a "matrimonial" attorney (is that nice for divorce?)
Sorry, I don't mean to come off snarky. My sense of humor can be obnoxious at times.
TGIRecovered
10-08-2011, 08:07 PM
That report wasn't biased against the mom or anything. LOL
The details are coming from her "ex" (not really ex) husband so I'm going to have to take them with a big grain of salt. She has custody of their son. I wouldn't expect her ex to necessarily sing her praises simply because of that fact. But if she's such a bad person, then why doesn't her non-ex take her to court to get his son?
You can say that again!
Info from a not-yet divorced but already relpaced "ex" will probably be very biased.
My goodness, she already has a 10 month old child with the current man and I gather they have lived at this home together for about a year, based upon In Da Middle's local info. If there was going to be an amicable divorcefrom the previous hubby I think it would have been finalized before now!
MOO
SuziQ
10-08-2011, 08:07 PM
Video of Steve Young's interview tonight:
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-steve-young-kcpd-lisa-irwin-update-20111008,0,6871031.story
Good video of the house we have been discussing and showing LE interviewing what may be family? I see some teens and someone on the front steps that has their head in there hands and looks upset.
makinwaffles
10-08-2011, 08:07 PM
It has been said several times already, but I'll say it again: the pic of the crib was not proven to have been taken at a time relevant to this case. It looks like a pic taken when the baby room was not even yet being used. There is NO reason to assume that the setup seen in that pic was actually being used at the time of the child's disappearance. None at all. Zero.
the crib was in the same state as the pic in the live stream after the house was released, IMHO the room was stage dressed by the media to appear as a "darling nursery" to pull the publics heartstrings. i dont know of any parents of 3 young kids that can keep satin bows perfectly tied on a baby bumper for any length of time IMHO
Marah
10-08-2011, 08:07 PM
According to that recent video, it looks like there were a few teens living in that house.
davehead21
10-08-2011, 08:08 PM
I have been gone all day, so haven't been able to catch up..yet
I am in the Northland (Parkville area for anyone wanting to look at a google map for the areas I'm referencing)
My son and I go "power shopping" every Saturday, and we were both quite interested to see how many missing posters we would see today.
North Oak Street Trafficway (major north south artery in the northland)- no signs
Vivion Road - (major east west road in the Northland)- we drove right past Penguin Park where the vigil was held last night - no signs
N.E Antioch Road (another north south road) - no signs
We were in Independence on 40 Highway, Noland Road, 23rd Street and 291 Highway..all of these are heavily congested roads - no signs
210 Highway - just south of the Irwins home and another well traveled highway - no signs
435 Highway driving past the hotel the parents are staying in - no signs
I did see the newscast where the neighbors were putting out flyers around the home, and that of course, needs to be done.
I don't understand the newscast of the young women handing out flyers in the Power & Light district??
Power & Light district...especially in the evenings, is an entertainment/bar/nightlife area.
I'm not saying I would omit that area, but it would NOT be a high priority area within the city.
Very confused
I was in KC shopping today too and didn't see ONE single sign. We went to Zona Rosa and nada. I think Zona is about 8-10 miles from Baby Lisa's house. We then went to Oak Park Mall and nada there, either. For anyone curious, Oak Park is on the Kansas side....about 30 minutes away from Baby Lisa's house.
I was really shocked to not see one, single poster. And I TOTALLY agree with you about P&L. When I saw that this morning I thought to myself, "Was she there to hand out posters or get drunk?" :waitasec:
SmoothOperator
10-08-2011, 08:08 PM
Originally Posted by lauriej (c/p from Thread#8)
My opinion -----i was under the assumption that they were asked to compile a list of people that had been to the home recently ( babysitter? plumber? etc), or had seen the baby recently (someone expressing an interest in her at the grocery store etc.)
..and not neccessarily someone they could think would be capable of kidnapping.
Thank you very much for giving me clarification on the compiled list by the parents.. I had not read or heard explained in this manner and if indeed correct makes a helluva allot of difference in what is perceived to be about this list.. I had heard the varying number of 9 and also 11 people on the list but had not heard "the list" explained in this way.. When the parents(specifically dad) made reference to the list they remarked that LE had cleared all of those people on "the list" they'd compiled and given LE..
In now having it explained as nothing more than a list of those recently in and/or around the home it makes perfect, logical sense and is infact SOP in a case where a child goes missing from the home(actually SOP in any crime where the perp enters the home)..
So, I appreciate your having clarified this list for me..:)
southern_comfort
10-08-2011, 08:08 PM
the crib was in the same state as the pic in the live stream after the house was released, IMHO the room was stage dressed by the media to appear as a "darling nursery" to pull the publics heartstrings. i dont know of any parents of 3 young kids that can keep satin bows perfectly tied on a baby bumper for any length of time IMHO
Why stack storage boxes in the crib, if staging a "darling nursery"?
Dr.Fessel
10-08-2011, 08:09 PM
Video of Steve Young's interview tonight:
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-steve-young-kcpd-lisa-irwin-update-20111008,0,6871031.story
Either that metal detector search was fake or they are only hunting for something on the surface and even then they were doing a lousy job with no grid. I think that whole thing was staged to get the video out of the 2 detectives interviewing the family at that one house and the kid sitting on the front porch.
Neither of the police with the metal detectors had a digging tool.
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 08:10 PM
Accused the mother of killing her baby! That imo is unconscionable, especially when LE had absolutely nothing to back the accusation up with. It was a scare tactic and it backfired. They all but poured salt in the parents open wounds. jmo of course :wink:
If you know how LE works, and you know statistics of infant abductions, you would know that this is an absolutely acceptable thing to do in the case of a missing child. Remember that all anyone wants (innocent parents included) is bringing the child home. If the parents are inconvenienced or even battered over this, they should be happy at least that someone cares enough to do everything they can to bring the child home. After all, LE doesn't just blindly go about their ways and accuse people here and there. Whatever they have that we as onlookers don't know is what is generating this behavior.
I find that far from unconscionable...I find it NECESSARY to get to the truth and find Lisa. After all, isn't that the most important part of all of this?
makinwaffles
10-08-2011, 08:11 PM
Why stack storage boxes in the crib, if staging a "darling nursery"?
room for camera crew? ran out of time before going live? just to drive people crazy about this exact thing? not sure, it just seems to me they may have pulled bedding out of storage and dressed up the crib.
MyBelle
10-08-2011, 08:11 PM
Accused the mother of killing her baby! That imo is unconscionable, especially when LE had absolutely nothing to back the accusation up with. It was a scare tactic and it backfired. They all but poured salt in the parents open wounds. jmo of course :wink:
With all due respect, we do not know that LE "had absolutely nothing."
I think the case is being handled very professionally by LE.
JMO
abstr
10-08-2011, 08:12 PM
Jeremy was born in 82 and Deborah in 86 (I think).
I am pretty sure Deborah's marriage certificate said 86.
Thank you. I guess I am old. I guess I was having kids at that age too, just sounds so young.
Edited to say though...I thought I was a young Mom at 25. They have older kids. No judgement...just guess I see myself as young in my 40's......
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 08:12 PM
It has been said several times already, but I'll say it again: the pic of the crib was not proven to have been taken at a time relevant to this case. It looks like a pic taken when the baby room was not even yet being used. There is NO reason to assume that the setup seen in that pic was actually being used at the time of the child's disappearance. None at all. Zero.
It actually was proven to be taken yesterday. I agree with you and thought that there was no way it could have been...but it was. Sorry I can't attach a link for you because I'd be here til next week trying to find it, but it was taken by the media during their interview with the parents yesterday as part of their piece.
Not bitter at all, anything but. My wife and I have always had a wonderful relationship. She's a matrimonial lawyer. So I learned a long time ago not to argue with her. :)
On a serious note... I do kind of know the tactics and the viciousness of ugly divorces. Both my wife and I have walked clients through far too many of them. Plus, she was Chief Court Attorney for a matrimonial judge for several years. The stuff you see..... [shudder]
And yes, as someone said, "having an interest in the outcome" is exactly what I'm talking about....
Good to see the lawyers here. Here's my question. If Debbie Bradley is still married to S. Bradley, and was married to him when Lisa was born, doesn't the law recognize him as Lisa's father even though they all know another man actually fathered the child? TIA
Cappuccino
10-08-2011, 08:13 PM
If you know how LE works, and you know statistics of infant abductions, you would know that this is an absolutely acceptable thing to do in the case of a missing child. Remember that all anyone wants (innocent parents included) is bringing the child home. If the parents are inconvenienced or even battered over this, they should be happy at least that someone cares enough to do everything they can to bring the child home. After all, LE doesn't just blindly go about their ways and accuse people here and there. Whatever they have that we as onlookers don't know is what is generating this behavior.
I find that far from unconscionable...I find it NECESSARY to get to the truth and find Lisa. After all, isn't that the most important part of all of this?
LE have already interrogated the parents for 11 hours without a break, the mother took a polygraph and the father offered to do one. What else do you expect the parents to do?
What's unconscionable is to interrogate someone for 11 hours, then accuse them of not cooperating when they ask for a break.
grandmaj
10-08-2011, 08:14 PM
Sleuthing. Do not keep sleuthing extended family members. Sleuthing for the parents of Lisa only. Do not continue to speculate about this teenager. You may only talk about what has been in MSM. If he hasn't been named in MSM we don't do that. We don't speculate on his address, his name, pictures of teens and try to guess which one etc. That is sleuthing minors. Thanks.
There is nothing that will get you a TO faster than sleuthing people we have asked you not to. Soooooooooo guys please don't go down that path.
Coldpizza
10-08-2011, 08:14 PM
Well goodnight all. May tomorrow bring answers for all of us. In the mean time I will keep an open mind and positive thoughts that Pumpkin Pie is alive and safe somewhere. My gut is waning but I refuse to give up the hope.
Just-a-Guy
10-08-2011, 08:14 PM
Sorry. Didn't mean offense. I somehow had a very amicable divorce. Was it always pretty? Hell no....but I just don't get that if you made kids with someone that you wouldn't support them. By support I mean in raising the kids, etc. not talking money. Since we had no money that was no issue...lol
On the other hand....some people get screwed.
And, Your wife must be some kinda awesome if you married a "matrimonial" attorney (is that nice for divorce?)
Sorry, I don't mean to come off snarky. My sense of humor can be obnoxious at times.
No problem! And yes, "matrimonial attorney" is sometimes translated as "divorce lawyer." But the truth is, they do much more. Pre-nups, post-nups, counseling, estate work, much much more. When it gets to the courthouse, yes, it's usually a divorce. A contested one or one with a custody battle. My wife has been assaulted on the courthouse steps by angry men (because she did such a good job representing the wife). You are lucky if you don't know how ugly it can get. There really are no limits. .... That's why I don't really do divorce work, except for long-time clients who really insist on my involvement. And then, I hate it.
makinwaffles
10-08-2011, 08:14 PM
It actually was proven to be taken yesterday. I agree with you and thought that there was no way it could have been...but it was. Sorry I can't attach a link for you because I'd be here til next week trying to find it, but it was taken by the media during their interview with the parents yesterday as part of their piece.
http://www.kmbc.com/slideshow/news/29427385/detail.html
picture 6 of 9
http://www.kmbc.com/news/29427206/detail.html
secretagent
10-08-2011, 08:14 PM
You can say that again!
Info from a not-yet divorced but already relpaced "ex" will probably be very biased.
My goodness, she already has a 10 month old child with the current man and I gather they have lived at this home together for about a year, based upon In Da Middle's local info. If there was going to be an amicable divorcefrom the previous hubby I think it would have been finalized before now!
MOO
You have no idea why they are not divorced. I was separated for 4 years before mine was final, all due to inability to agree on financial issues. I was involved with someone for a year and a half at the time I was finally divorced. And we had a baby within a year if that. Why should my entire life have been on hold because he would not agree to financial stipulations??
katydid23
10-08-2011, 08:16 PM
Accused the mother of killing her baby! That imo is unconscionable, especially when LE had absolutely nothing to back the accusation up with. It was a scare tactic and it backfired. They all but poured salt in the parents open wounds. jmo of course :wink:
We need to remember that LE often comes across mothers who DO kill their children, or sell them for drugs. So it is no surprise that in the case of a child gone missing from the crib, with questionable circumstances, that LE would be highly suspicious of the family. I certainly was.
Just-a-Guy
10-08-2011, 08:16 PM
Good to see the lawyers here. Here's my question. If Debbie Bradley is still married to S. Bradley, and was married to him when Lisa was born, doesn't the law recognize him as Lisa's father even though they all know another man actually fathered the child? TIA
I've never heard such a thing, no. And certainly not in an estranged or separated situation. No idea where you got that. Matrimonial law varies dramatically from state to state, but I've never heard anything like that before. The father is the father.
marge_rita
10-08-2011, 08:16 PM
My apologies to all. I can't find the post that referred to a 'party' that was held Monday night 10/3. I will keep looking here at WS and I won't post about it until I find a link.:blushing:
Dr.Fessel
10-08-2011, 08:16 PM
room for camera crew? ran out of time before going live? just to drive people crazy about this exact thing? not sure, it just seems to me they may have pulled bedding out of storage and dressed up the crib.
LE probably vacuumed the whole floor for evidence. They would have picked up boxes stacked on the floor because a perp could have moved them around to hide evidence.
AnaTeresa
10-08-2011, 08:18 PM
Good to see the lawyers here. Here's my question. If Debbie Bradley is still married to S. Bradley, and was married to him when Lisa was born, doesn't the law recognize him as Lisa's father even though they all know another man actually fathered the child? TIA
I believe it varies by state. I also think it depends on whether the parents are together or legally separated or just separated. Does one of the verified lawyers want to chime in?
MyBelle
10-08-2011, 08:18 PM
It has been said several times already, but I'll say it again: the pic of the crib was not proven to have been taken at a time relevant to this case. It looks like a pic taken when the baby room was not even yet being used. There is NO reason to assume that the setup seen in that pic was actually being used at the time of the child's disappearance. None at all. Zero.
ABC showed a reporter in the baby's room. I will assume the reporter was in real time not there ten months ago.
JMO
southern_comfort
10-08-2011, 08:18 PM
Good to see the lawyers here. Here's my question. If Debbie Bradley is still married to S. Bradley, and was married to him when Lisa was born, doesn't the law recognize him as Lisa's father even though they all know another man actually fathered the child? TIA
I think MO does presume that the husband is the father of a child born during a marriage, but it's rebuttable. A couple of affidavits and maybe some blood tests to prove paternity and it's settled.
Just-a-Guy
10-08-2011, 08:19 PM
It actually was proven to be taken yesterday. I agree with you and thought that there was no way it could have been...but it was. Sorry I can't attach a link for you because I'd be here til next week trying to find it, but it was taken by the media during their interview with the parents yesterday as part of their piece.
OK, thanks, that's interesting. Still...that does not establish that the setup seen in the photo was the same as the one on the night in question. Crib mattresses are easy to raise and lower (I spent a number of recent years doing so :) ). But OK, yeah, it's a question, I guess.
AnaTeresa
10-08-2011, 08:19 PM
I've never heard such a thing, no. And certainly not in an estranged or separated situation. No idea where you got that. Matrimonial law varies dramatically from state to state, but I've never heard anything like that before. The father is the father.
I remember a case from constitutional law where a man fathered a child with a married woman and the child was legally considered the child of her spouse, and not her biological father. It was from the 70s, so I'm sure things have changed since then, but that could be cause for that idea.
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 08:19 PM
LE have already interrogated the parents for 11 hours without a break, the mother took a polygraph and the father offered to do one. What else do you expect the parents to do?
What's unconscionable is to interrogate someone for 11 hours, then accuse them of not cooperating when they ask for a break.
Let's take a vote here then? How many here would be more than happy to spend 11 hours (and no one knows they didn't have a break) and then spend 11 MORE if it would help to bring home their child? Interrogating someone for 11 hours is NOTHING and to me proves that LE must have something that led them to spend that much time.
Cappuccino
10-08-2011, 08:20 PM
ABC showed a reporter in the baby's room. I will assume the reporter was in real time not there ten months ago.
JMO
Yes, they were there in real time, and they were only let in after LE had finished searching. So the state you see the room in is the state they left it in, NOT the state they found it in.
jjenny
10-08-2011, 08:20 PM
I've never heard such a thing, no. And certainly not in an estranged or separated situation. No idea where you got that. Matrimonial law varies dramatically from state to state, but I've never heard anything like that before. The father is the father.
Because the husband is assumed to be the father in a legal marriage,
men who are married to the mother but are not the bio dad can be required to pay child support. Since they were separated I am not sure if that applies here, but a legal assumption is that the husband is the father.
sorrell skye
10-08-2011, 08:21 PM
Missing Baby's Extended Family Discusses Mom's Past
Video report
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-bradleys-family-talks-about-past-20111008,0,1316565.story
TY for that link, BeanE.
I seriously don't get what this whole so-called "checkered past" (as the reporter called it) deal is. So DB is still married to her ex - is that really a "checkered past"???? I don't think so.
Good grief - I think some of these reporters need to get a grip.
grandmaj
10-08-2011, 08:21 PM
If I am sleuthing the mother of Lisa and it turns out there was another suspicious event (a death) that occurred 10 years earlier, am I allowed to mention it?
:waitasec:
Not unless MSM has reported on it. Rumors repeated from FB or blogs cannot be brought here Thanks!
cluciano63
10-08-2011, 08:22 PM
Let's take a vote here then? How many here would be more than happy to spend 11 hours (and no one knows they didn't have a break) and then spend 11 MORE if it would help to bring home their child? Interrogating someone for 11 hours is NOTHING and to me proves that LE must have something that led them to spend that much time.
At the least, I believe it means there was some sticking point that LE could not overcome...and meanwhile FBI and LE officers were searching high and low for the baby. It's not as though they didn't do anything at all except "interrogate" the parents endlessly, IMO.
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 08:23 PM
OK, thanks, that's interesting. Still...that does not establish that the setup seen in the photo was the same as the one on the night in question. Crib mattresses are easy to raise and lower (I spent a number of recent years doing so :) ). But OK, yeah, it's a question, I guess.
I hear ya! I was shocked to find out it was current. But, I suppose showing an empty baby crib on TV with no bedding and vacant would not be the right thing to do. Probably why everything seemed to be so haphazard.
momtective
10-08-2011, 08:23 PM
We need to remember that LE often comes across mothers who DO kill their children, or sell them for drugs. So it is no surprise that in the case of a child gone missing from the crib, with questionable circumstances, that LE would be highly suspicious of the family. I certainly was.
I understand completely but we also must remember that there are those whose children have gone missing who were truly innocent eg; Diena Thompson (Somer Thompson's mom), Carl Probyn (Jaycee Dugard's step father), Marc Lunsford (Jessica Lunsford's father) and in this case I believe Debbie Netz and Jeremy Irwin.
southern_comfort
10-08-2011, 08:23 PM
Section of Missouri statutes regarding presumption of paternity (and rebuttal), for those interested:
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C200-299/2100000822.HTM
Cappuccino
10-08-2011, 08:23 PM
Let's take a vote here then? How many here would be more than happy to spend 11 hours (and no one knows they didn't have a break) and then spend 11 MORE if it would help to bring home their child? Interrogating someone for 11 hours is NOTHING and to me proves that LE must have something that led them to spend that much time.
I think Jerry Hobbs must have thought the same after his poor little daughter and her friend were murdered by a serial killer. That's why he let LE interrogate him for 14 hours without a break. Unfortunately for everybody, the psyche of a grieving, shocked, sleep deprived parent is not able to remain sane during a lengthy interrogation like that.
Result? Jerry Hobbs made a false confession, and the real killer went on to claim more victims while Mr Hobbs was languishing in jail for a crime he didn't commit.
The Ingrams were absolutely right to ask for a break after 11 hours. And it shouldn't take 11 hours for LE to ask the questions they need to ask anyway.
Just-a-Guy
10-08-2011, 08:24 PM
I remember a case from constitutional law where a man fathered a child with a married woman and the child was legally considered the child of her spouse, and not her biological father. It was from the 70s, so I'm sure things have changed since then, but that could be cause for that idea.
Really? Well, jeez, I never heard any such thing before. As far as I know, there is no such thing as "constitutional law" on marriage. Or at least very little of it (that's why the states are free to "recognize" different kinds of marriages, for example). But hey, anything is possible in the world of matrimonial law.... Sadly.
JBean
10-08-2011, 08:25 PM
As for chequered past-just think Brenda and Damon van Dam. Not getting on that train.
abstr
10-08-2011, 08:25 PM
No problem! And yes, "matrimonial attorney" is sometimes translated as "divorce lawyer." But the truth is, they do much more. Pre-nups, post-nups, counseling, estate work, much much more. When it gets to the courthouse, yes, it's usually a divorce. A contested one or one with a custody battle. My wife has been assaulted on the courthouse steps by angry men (because she did such a good job representing the wife). You are lucky if you don't know how ugly it can get. There really are no limits. .... That's why I don't really do divorce work, except for long-time clients who really insist on my involvement. And then, I hate it.
My ex is a huge immature ass....but I married him and I had kids with him. So I just made it as easy as possible. Maybe if money were a factor I'd have felt different. I want my kids to have a Dad so why fight if they are safe and cared for when with him.
I don't want to hear about Lisa's mother's almost ex husband unless it is relevant! Half the freaking US gets divorced....move on if it is not related to this case!
jjenny
10-08-2011, 08:26 PM
Section of Missouri statutes regarding presumption of paternity (and rebuttal), for those interested:
http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C200-299/2100000822.HTM
I am not sure that makes it any clearer. If she is legally married to the husband and they don't have an official declaration of separation does it mean he is assumed to be the legal father? I suppose it depends on who is on the birth certificate?
marge_rita
10-08-2011, 08:26 PM
Video of Steve Young's interview tonight:
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-steve-young-kcpd-lisa-irwin-update-20111008,0,6871031.story
I like this guy. Seems very straight forward and honest. He made 2 comments i love. "We'll end up talking to everybody."
and
"Listen to the voice in your head."
imo
cluciano63
10-08-2011, 08:26 PM
And Amber Du Bois' stepfather underwent something like 8 polygraphs, trying desperately to get cleared, as his story was really kind of odd for the day Amber vanished. And they never did clear him, really, until the real killer was found. So sometimes, people do live under a cloud, unfortunately. But also sometimes the guilty parties never get charged...
TGIRecovered
10-08-2011, 08:26 PM
If I am sleuthing the mother of Lisa and it turns out there was another suspicious event (a death) that occurred 10 years earlier, am I allowed to mention it?
:waitasec:
Maybe you could look for an obit or an MSM article from the time that the death occurred. :twocents:
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 08:26 PM
Yes, they were there in real time, and they were only let in after LE had finished searching. So the state you see the room in is the state they left it in, NOT the state they found it in.
So, you don't think that LE could have stripped the entire crib (considering that we know investigators had been seen taking out bags of bedding) and then when the reporters and cameras came in they wanted to take photos of the room but did not want to show a bare crib, so they "fixed it up" just for the cameras? I do.
wfgodot
10-08-2011, 08:28 PM
"Listen to the voice in your head."
I would suspect that this is directed specifically at one person. Don't know quite who though.
JBean
10-08-2011, 08:28 PM
TY for that link, BeanE.
I seriously don't get what this whole so-called "checkered past" (as the reporter called it) deal is. So DB is still married to her ex - is that really a "checkered past"???? I don't think so.
Good grief - I think some of these reporters need to get a grip.
It is truly amazing to me that they can report that as a chequered past. I have big horizontal stripes in my past if that is the bar.
s-e-n-s-a-t-i-o-n-a-l
OkGrace
10-08-2011, 08:29 PM
Let's take a vote here then? How many here would be more than happy to spend 11 hours (and no one knows they didn't have a break) and then spend 11 MORE if it would help to bring home their child? Interrogating someone for 11 hours is NOTHING and to me proves that LE must have something that led them to spend that much time.
IMO I am not sure I could stay 11 hours, I would probably be getting quite anxious and come unglued, if I were innocent I would be thinking precious time was being wasted.
IMO I think the parents may not be telling the entire story but I hope I am wrong. I too want this child to be found soon and safe, perhaps with someone who wanted a child and could not have one. I can hope.....
Just-a-Guy
10-08-2011, 08:29 PM
Because the husband is assumed to be the father in a legal marriage,
men who are married to the mother but are not the bio dad can be required to pay child support. Since they were separated I am not sure if that applies here, but a legal assumption is that the husband is the father.
OK, I see, thanks. I guess these situations (and the statute southern comfort posted, thanks!) are designed to address a situation where someone else claims to be the father of a child born during a marriage...and the married couple (or one of them?) doesn't want to recognize that. I dunno. I see that there is a presumption, I didn't know that. I think I'll just keep my mouth shut about matrimonial law from now on. It's not my field. My wife would slap me for pretending it is (and I would be required to agree that I deserved it :) ).
Cappuccino
10-08-2011, 08:31 PM
So, you don't think that LE could have stripped the entire crib (considering that we know investigators had been seen taking out bags of bedding) and then when the reporters and cameras came in they wanted to take photos of the room but did not want to show a bare crib, so they "fixed it up" just for the cameras? I do.
Oh, totally. Maybe I misunderstood your posts, or maybe I'm mixing you up with another poster, but I thought you were under the impression that the photograph was a representation of how the child's room was BEFORE it was searched. I was just pointing out that police don't tend to clean up after themselves when they've searched a room, that's all.
Sorry if I misunderstood you, and as for the media I totally agree with you.
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 08:32 PM
I think Jerry Hobbs must have thought the same after his poor little daughter and her friend were murdered by a serial killer. That's why he let LE interrogate him for 14 hours without a break. Unfortunately for everybody, the psyche of a grieving, shocked, sleep deprived parent is not able to remain sane during a lengthy interrogation like that.
Result? Jerry Hobbs made a false confession, and the real killer went on to claim more victims while Mr Hobbs was languishing in jail for a crime he didn't commit.
The Ingrams were absolutely right to ask for a break after 11 hours. And it shouldn't take 11 hours for LE to ask the questions they need to ask anyway.
I know that there are exceptions to every rule. But in general, investigations like this are not like CSI Miami and need to be solved in an hour. I think that a break during 11 hours is totally needed, but how do we know that they didn't have a break? A lot of people think a break is to go home and take a nap. No...they should have received a chance to go to the bathroom and get something to eat...and I bet that they did.
mamamia54
10-08-2011, 08:32 PM
There are two sex offenders living within just a few streets of Lisa's home.
southern_comfort
10-08-2011, 08:32 PM
I am not sure that makes it any clearer. If she is legally married to the husband and they don't have an official declaration of separation does it mean he is assumed to be the legal father? I suppose it depends on who is on the birth certificate?
In this case, I have no idea whether they were legally separated. But, if a couple isn't legally separated, the husband is presumed to be the father and would be responsible for support -- IF someone came after him for it.
Again, though, where necessary, this presumption is pretty easy to overcome in the year 2011. I don't think paternity of baby L is in question (at least, I haven't seen any indication that it is).
raeann
10-08-2011, 08:35 PM
It is truly amazing to me that they can report that as a chequered past. I have big horizontal stripes in my past if that is the bar.
s-e-n-s-a-t-i-o-n-a-l
I thought that was somewhat of an archaic term to be using.....by the 10 o'clock report she may very well be a "fallen woman"!!!! I hope that station gets LOTS of calls from LOTS of women who find that term insulting.
Mojen
10-08-2011, 08:36 PM
In this case, I have no idea whether they were legally separated. But, if a couple isn't legally separated, the husband is presumed to be the father and would be responsible for support -- IF someone came after him for it.
Again, though, where necessary, this presumption is pretty easy to overcome in the year 2011. I don't think paternity of baby L is in question (at least, I haven't seen any indication that it is).
I posted a link to this on another thread. Deborah went through the State of Missouri to get child support.
If or when Deborah and Sean get divorced, Jeremy will have to be named as a third party in the divorce. There will be a count in the divorce petition specifically addressing the paternity of Lisa and naming Jeremy her bio father.
TripleA
10-08-2011, 08:36 PM
I think that the state of the crib is a moot point, just like the shorts she was sleeping in. I think those bins and the tub were likely being stored under the crib, the police needed to inspect under there, so they stacked them inside the crib.
I think the mattress was lower than it looked because of the bumper height and even if it wasn't it is not likely that the baby fell out of the crib and died. Kids climb out of cribs all the time. Kids take a lot of falls and don't die. I just find it an unlikely scenario.
This seems to be what happens when we are starved for new information.
Cappuccino
10-08-2011, 08:36 PM
OK, I see, thanks. I guess these situations (and the statute southern comfort posted, thanks!) are designed to address a situation where someone else claims to be the father of a child born during a marriage...and the married couple (or one of them?) doesn't want to recognize that. I dunno. I see that there is a presumption, I didn't know that. I think I'll just keep my mouth shut about matrimonial law from now on. It's not my field. My wife would slap me for pretending it is (and I would be required to agree that I deserved it :) ).
If your wife was here she might say something like this...the law makes certain presumptions - for example, innocent till proven guilty. That obviously doesn't mean its set in stone that a defendant is innocent, just that the burden of proof is on the prosecution. The paternity of a child born to a married woman follows the same principle - its presumed legally to be the husband's child unless and until evidence is offered to the contrary. If the mother puts someone else's name as father on the birth cert with no corresponding challenge from her husband, that is evidence to the contrary, and the default legal presumption is over turned.
angela
10-08-2011, 08:36 PM
I remember a case from constitutional law where a man fathered a child with a married woman and the child was legally considered the child of her spouse, and not her biological father. It was from the 70s, so I'm sure things have changed since then, but that could be cause for that idea.
In Ohio, that law is still on the books. You have to prove the husband is not the father even if you both know for a fact he isnt.
sorrell skye
10-08-2011, 08:36 PM
Why stack storage boxes in the crib, if staging a "darling nursery"?
I agree.
If I was staging a "darling nursery" for media impact, I would arrange the baby's stuffed animals in the crib - not storage bins & a baby bathtub.
TGIRecovered
10-08-2011, 08:37 PM
HatesSociopaths, I don't think that link qualifies as mainstream media. JMO, but it is probably a good idea to delete it before anyone quotes it and look for something from a newspaper or TV station.
Also, I think you need a link to explain why you believe this death is suspicious and connected to Baby Lisa. I'm not a mod, just trying to help!
kantoo
10-08-2011, 08:37 PM
I thought that was somewhat of an archaic term to be using.....by the 10 o'clock report she may very well be a "fallen woman"!!!! I hope that station gets LOTS of calls from LOTS of women who find that term insulting.
...followed by my mother's term "a woman of the night"
momtective
10-08-2011, 08:37 PM
Video of Steve Young's interview tonight:
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-steve-young-kcpd-lisa-irwin-update-20111008,0,6871031.story
Screen cap from the above link...interesting to say the least.
http://i749.photobucket.com/albums/xx132/The_Missing/Lisa/guyonporch.jpg
I've never heard such a thing, no. And certainly not in an estranged or separated situation. No idea where you got that. Matrimonial law varies dramatically from state to state, but I've never heard anything like that before. The father is the father.
hmm... In most states, if a child is born during a marriage, the husband is presumed legally to be the father. He has to support the child even if mom was playing around. Doesn't matter if they live together or not. The actual or putative father can take some steps to establish paternity, with varying degrees of success. For example, if Debbie wanted to place Lisa for adoption, I think in most states she would need to notify S Bradley, and maybe Jeremy if he is on the birth certificate. jmo
Mojen
10-08-2011, 08:38 PM
If your wife was here she might say something like this...the law makes certain presumptions - for example, innocent till proven guilty. That obviously doesn't mean its set in stone that a defendant is innocent, just that the burden of proof is on the prosecution. The paternity of a child born to a married woman follows the same principle - its presumed legally to be the husband's child unless and until evidence is offered to the contrary. If the mother puts someone else's name as father on the birth cert with no corresponding challenge from her husband, that is evidence to the contrary, and the default legal presumption is over turned.
Not in the State of Missouri. A Court has to make a Finding and Order in the Judgment of Dissolution of Marriage absolving the husband of being the child's bio father.
Donjeta
10-08-2011, 08:39 PM
So, you don't think that LE could have stripped the entire crib (considering that we know investigators had been seen taking out bags of bedding) and then when the reporters and cameras came in they wanted to take photos of the room but did not want to show a bare crib, so they "fixed it up" just for the cameras? I do.
They could easily have done that but I don't understand why they stacked the boxes there if it was staged for the photos. It looks more like they're staging the family packing away the baby stuff being done with her than staging a lonesome crib from which a baby was heartbreakingly stolen.
abstr
10-08-2011, 08:39 PM
Maybe you could look for an obit or an MSM article from the time that the death occurred. :twocents:
Someone was kind enough to post an obit. for me a few pages back when I asked if Lisa was named after her Grandmother.
Jacie Estes
10-08-2011, 08:39 PM
JMHO but the 'local' media is exploiting this baby with some borderline journalism; it went from Debbie's checkered past to her family's checkered past. This is about a missing baby not a rating's boost.
southern_comfort
10-08-2011, 08:39 PM
TY for that link, BeanE.
I seriously don't get what this whole so-called "checkered past" (as the reporter called it) deal is. So DB is still married to her ex - is that really a "checkered past"???? I don't think so.
Good grief - I think some of these reporters need to get a grip.
Well, IMO, it's all relative. Believe it or not, there are large segments of society who would look upon this situation with a severely raised eyebrow as the "Jerry Springer" theme song plays in the background.
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 08:39 PM
IMO I am not sure I could stay 11 hours, I would probably be getting quite anxious and come unglued, if I were innocent I would be thinking precious time was being wasted.
IMO I think the parents may not be telling the entire story but I hope I am wrong. I too want this child to be found soon and safe, perhaps with someone who wanted a child and could not have one. I can hope.....
Well, I know for a FACT that I could sit and answer questions until I physically dropped if my child was missing and that there was ANY chance at all of finding the child by what I was able to tell them. Not to say that I wouldn't go unglued several times during the interview, but I'd do it because I believe that my discomfort would take a minor role compared to my missing child.
Also, for someone to believe that time was being wasted just means that they don't know LE procedure. The investigator questioning you is not the only person on the case.
But, we are all different and that's what makes the world go round! :)
Cappuccino
10-08-2011, 08:40 PM
I know that there are exceptions to every rule. But in general, investigations like this are not like CSI Miami and need to be solved in an hour. I think that a break during 11 hours is totally needed, but how do we know that they didn't have a break? A lot of people think a break is to go home and take a nap. No...they should have received a chance to go to the bathroom and get something to eat...and I bet that they did.
I'm not naive enough to think CSI Miami is anything other than a piece of fiction, which incidentally, I hate and never watch. These parents said they were questioned for 11 hours without a break, and LE has not contradicted them. The husband asked after 11 hours to let them go home and take a break, and given Jerry Hobbs' experience, I think he was wise.
grandmaj
10-08-2011, 08:40 PM
Well there are about 5 moderators sitting in this thread right now and it has been said repeatedly that we are not sleuthing out any other crime rumored to being related to this case based on a rumor that was deleted earlier. Rumors do not belong on WS.
Don't continue along this path.
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 08:41 PM
Oh, totally. Maybe I misunderstood your posts, or maybe I'm mixing you up with another poster, but I thought you were under the impression that the photograph was a representation of how the child's room was BEFORE it was searched. I was just pointing out that police don't tend to clean up after themselves when they've searched a room, that's all.
Sorry if I misunderstood you, and as for the media I totally agree with you.
Easy to do in this fast moving thread! Heck, it never hurts to ask with me because half the time I'm doing 20 things at once and get confused...lol
I'm a multi-tasker! :)
kantoo
10-08-2011, 08:42 PM
JMHO but the 'local' media is exploiting this baby with some borderline journalism; it went from Debbie's checkered past to her family's checkered past. This is about a missing baby not a rating's boost.
And i've heard a lot of grumbling about them not wanting to talk to the local media. Ha! No wonder
vlpate
10-08-2011, 08:42 PM
After reading and watching for three days, I did not know JI waited two days to mention the cell phones were missing. Is this correct or somehow out of context?
Cher352
10-08-2011, 08:42 PM
JMHO but the 'local' media is exploiting this baby with some borderline journalism; it went from Debbie's checkered past to her family's checkered past. This is about a missing baby not a rating's boost.
No wonder the Irwins don't want to talk to Local New only National.
southern_comfort
10-08-2011, 08:42 PM
I posted a link to this on another thread. Deborah went through the State of Missouri to get child support.
If or when Deborah and Sean get divorced, Jeremy will have to be named as a third party in the divorce. There will be a count in the divorce petition specifically addressing the paternity of Lisa and naming Jeremy her bio father.
Just to clarify... She sought CS for baby L, from SB?
SarahW
10-08-2011, 08:43 PM
I know that there are exceptions to every rule. But in general, investigations like this are not like CSI Miami and need to be solved in an hour. I think that a break during 11 hours is totally needed, but how do we know that they didn't have a break? A lot of people think a break is to go home and take a nap. No...they should have received a chance to go to the bathroom and get something to eat...and I bet that they did.
Sleep deprivation only breaks a person down, which is exactly what police were attempting - it is NOT the best method to gain information, it is a method to wear down the interrogated.
A break for rest and sleep is appropriate.
CKSWarriorQueen
10-08-2011, 08:44 PM
Signs, flyers, etc. cost money. Unless there is someone out there offering money to do this, how are the parents supposed to magically come up with the money?
All we needed was a couple of reams of printer paper, a computer or two to print from (laser is better because it doesn't run in the rain), a couple of staple guns, and packing tape.
It probably cost us less than $100 to completely cover a five mile radius around my dad's house. That, and four days of relentlessly, ceaselessly driving, walking, stapling, and taping.
Two months after my father died, my last day in his house (closing it up to sell), I came upon one of the flyers we missed, still readable, on a telephone pole on Salem Road while I was walking to the train.
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 08:45 PM
They could easily have done that but I don't understand why they stacked the boxes there if it was staged for the photos. It looks more like they're staging the family packing away the baby stuff being done with her than staging a lonesome crib from which a baby was heartbreakingly stolen.
I agree...and I don't know why either...just another puzzling detail about this heartbreaking case.
HatesSociopaths
10-08-2011, 08:45 PM
HatesSociopaths, I don't think that link qualifies as mainstream media. JMO, but it is probably a good idea to delete it before anyone quotes it and look for something from a newspaper or TV station.
Also, I think you need a link to explain why you believe this death is suspicious and connected to Baby Lisa. I'm not a mod, just trying to help!
Thanks. I will go back to lurking on this thread and following the trail that MSM provides us.
Donjeta
10-08-2011, 08:45 PM
The parents, Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin, brother of Ashley Irwin, still are not considered suspects, Young said.
"The investigation is directed and led by hard information," Young added. "Again, we don't have any suspects. If we had enough to charge anybody with, we probably would be issuing charges."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-parents-stop-cooperating-making-lists/story?id=14679914
It sounds like he's saying they're not going to name any suspects before there is enough to press charges right away.
Mojen
10-08-2011, 08:45 PM
Just to clarify... She sought CS for baby L, from SB?
No, sorry. I was thinking of her other child.
She did NOT seek child support from Sean for Lisa.
Thanks for pointing that out. :D
kantoo
10-08-2011, 08:46 PM
Just to clarify... She sought CS for baby L, from SB?
i have read she gets child support for her son
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 08:48 PM
I'm not naive enough to think CSI Miami is anything other than a piece of fiction, which incidentally, I hate and never watch. These parents said they were questioned for 11 hours without a break, and LE has not contradicted them. The husband asked after 11 hours to let them go home and take a break, and given Jerry Hobbs' experience, I think he was wise.
Well then, on this, we will have to agree to disagree...:)
marge_rita
10-08-2011, 08:48 PM
After reading and watching for three days, I did not know JI waited two days to mention the cell phones were missing. Is this correct or somehow out of context?
:waitasec: Hu? JI waited 2 days to mention missing phones?
twall
10-08-2011, 08:48 PM
If you know how LE works, and you know statistics of infant abductions, you would know that this is an absolutely acceptable thing to do in the case of a missing child. Remember that all anyone wants (innocent parents included) is bringing the child home. If the parents are inconvenienced or even battered over this, they should be happy at least that someone cares enough to do everything they can to bring the child home. After all, LE doesn't just blindly go about their ways and accuse people here and there. Whatever they have that we as onlookers don't know is what is generating this behavior.
I find that far from unconscionable...I find it NECESSARY to get to the truth and find Lisa. After all, isn't that the most important part of all of this?
BBM, I respectfully disagree. I have followed many a case where LE does blindly go about their ways and accuse people here and there alot of times leading to false confessions and convictions whether it be for a missing child or another crime.
For example:
West Memphis 3, Yogurt Shop Murders, Norfolk 4, Michael Crowe, Amanda Knox and her bf RS, Tim Masters, Kevin Fox, Ryan Ferguson, Chuck Erickson, David Camm, Julie Rea Harper...
MOO
BeanE
10-08-2011, 08:48 PM
I would suspect that this is directed specifically at one person. Don't know quite who though.
Probably me, although my voices haven't yet told me how Steve Young knows about them.
:)
RANCH
10-08-2011, 08:48 PM
After reading and watching for three days, I did not know JI waited two days to mention the cell phones were missing. Is this correct or somehow out of context?
Were did you here this?
uvamerica
10-08-2011, 08:49 PM
At the least, I believe it means there was some sticking point that LE could not overcome...and meanwhile FBI and LE officers were searching high and low for the baby. It's not as though they didn't do anything at all except "interrogate" the parents endlessly, IMO.
I agree, BTW all the statements out about the interview have been said by the parents ?, not by LE ? given the statements are true to begin with..
wfgodot
10-08-2011, 08:50 PM
Probably me, although my voices haven't yet told me how Steve Young knows about them.
:)
o/t one word, starts with tur and ends with ducken! :back:
tlcya
10-08-2011, 08:50 PM
After reading and watching for three days, I did not know JI waited two days to mention the cell phones were missing. Is this correct or somehow out of context?
I think we established two threads ago that this is not the case. during the first day of reporting reporters got it wrong saying that LE had taken the cel phones, we later learned that the cel phones were missing along with baby Lisa.
Steve Young stated in a presser regarding the missing phones "we knew about that that morning . . . the phones have led to no leads" (sorry paraphrasing because I dont have the link but it has been linked repeatedly over the last two days.)
SuziQ
10-08-2011, 08:50 PM
OK, I see, thanks. I guess these situations (and the statute southern comfort posted, thanks!) are designed to address a situation where someone else claims to be the father of a child born during a marriage...and the married couple (or one of them?) doesn't want to recognize that. I dunno. I see that there is a presumption, I didn't know that. I think I'll just keep my mouth shut about matrimonial law from now on. It's not my field. My wife would slap me for pretending it is (and I would be required to agree that I deserved it :) ).
Someone ages ago explained to me that those laws were written and necessary at a time when there was no way to prove paternity.
ClaireNC
10-08-2011, 08:51 PM
So, you don't think that LE could have stripped the entire crib (considering that we know investigators had been seen taking out bags of bedding) and then when the reporters and cameras came in they wanted to take photos of the room but did not want to show a bare crib, so they "fixed it up" just for the cameras? I do.
I agree, I think the baby's bedroom in the video are after LE took away what they wanted and the family or TV stations came in and cleaned things up. After taking pictures of the initial scene, the investigators do not generally clean up after themselves. They just dig around and take what they want. The crib in the photos has been "fixed" from the mess the investigators left behind, so it is not necessarily the way it looked when the baby was living there.
I just came back here from reading some of the FB pages and it looks like the majority of posts are now suspecting the Mom. From her interviews I just don't see it...but of course I could be wrong.
The sad thing is..we may never know.
LadyPirate
10-08-2011, 08:51 PM
Because the husband is assumed to be the father in a legal marriage,
men who are married to the mother but are not the bio dad can be required to pay child support. Since they were separated I am not sure if that applies here, but a legal assumption is that the husband is the father.
In the state of Tennessee, when this type of situation occurs, no divorce is granted until the birth of the child and then a DNA test is done. A young couple I know were separated, the mother had a boyfriend and became pregnant. Even though BOTH the mother and her soon to be Ex said the child was not his, their divorce was not granted until the results of the DNA came back.
I would think that in these days, any time there is a question, DNA would be gathered.
Donjeta
10-08-2011, 08:51 PM
Sleep deprivation only breaks a person down, which is exactly what police were attempting - it is NOT the best method to gain information, it is a method to wear down the interrogated.
A break for rest and sleep is appropriate.
What time was the interview? If it started at 9 am and lasted 11 hours until 8 pm. they would probably have been very tired but not IMO sleep deprived yet. At least, not because of the interview. They might have had several sleepless nights before that but I'm not sure if it can be laid solely on the LE's door, I bet many parents of missing children have trouble sleeping.
liz b.
10-08-2011, 08:51 PM
:waitasec: Hu? JI waited 2 days to mention missing phones?
No. I think it was not revealed by LE that the phones were missing. A relative supposedly wrote that " more than just the baby was taken " paraphrasing...And I think that either Jeremy or Deb then did tell a reporter about the phones being gone. I believe LE knew about the cell phones right away...MOO
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 08:52 PM
BBM, I respectfully disagree. I have followed many a case where LE does blindly go about their ways and accuse people here and there alot of times leading to false confessions and convictions.
For example:
West Memphis 3, Yogurt Shop Murders, Norfolk 4, Michael Crowe, Amanda Knox and her bf RS, Tim Masters, Kevin Fox, Ryan Ferguson, Chuck Erickson, David Camm...
MOO
I know that there are corrupt departments, but I know first-hand that KCPD is not one of them. But as long as we remain respectful, we can disagree...:)
twall
10-08-2011, 08:52 PM
I've never heard such a thing, no. And certainly not in an estranged or separated situation. No idea where you got that. Matrimonial law varies dramatically from state to state, but I've never heard anything like that before. The father is the father.
That is the law in Florida. Look up Miranda Wilkerson.
sorrell skye
10-08-2011, 08:53 PM
I think that the state of the crib is a moot point, just like the shorts she was sleeping in. I think those bins and the tub were likely being stored under the crib, the police needed to inspect under there, so they stacked them inside the crib.
I think the mattress was lower than it looked because of the bumper height and even if it wasn't it is not likely that the baby fell out of the crib and died. Kids climb out of cribs all the time. Kids take a lot of falls and don't die. I just find it an unlikely scenario.
This seems to be what happens when we are starved for new information.
BBM
Respectfully, I don't feel it's a moot point at all.
Until verification is given that the state the nursery was filmed was how LE left it, I don't think anyone can assume it to be a fact, IMO. I learned a loooong time ago - never assume anything.
Here's my current question: is there proof that the baby even slept in her crib on a regular basis? Is there proof that the baby was put to bed in her crib on the night she disappeared?
AFAIK, there is no incontrovertible proof of either.
Cappuccino
10-08-2011, 08:53 PM
Well then, on this, we will have to agree to disagree...:)
You mean you're a CSI Miami fan??? Oh, the horror!!!
(joke).
I wish we would get some news about Lisa, or suspects or anything. We're like a bunch of cats chasing our tails at this point.
wfgodot
10-08-2011, 08:54 PM
164 members and 157 guests right now - guests, join us. You have much to add to the conversation.
MyBelle
10-08-2011, 08:54 PM
I posted a link to this on another thread. Deborah went through the State of Missouri to get child support.
If or when Deborah and Sean get divorced, Jeremy will have to be named as a third party in the divorce. There will be a count in the divorce petition specifically addressing the paternity of Lisa and naming Jeremy her bio father.
I wonder if her checkered past has more to do some type of welfare fraud such as food stamps or unpaid debts and running from collectors.
JMO
Shelby1
10-08-2011, 08:55 PM
After reading and watching for three days, I did not know JI waited two days to mention the cell phones were missing. Is this correct or somehow out of context?
I know I have a link if not on my timeline, then it's saved, but I'm trying to put dinner on the table.
The first day a reporter either used bad sentence structure, or just got the whole thing wrong. The report stated that the phones were taken and it read like LE had confiscated the phones. Not correct. The phones were taken and LE knew right away.
MY opinion below:
I believe LE did not want to release any info about the missing phones and are not happy with the family that they did.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong in any way. :)
marge_rita
10-08-2011, 08:55 PM
Sleep deprivation only breaks a person down, which is exactly what police were attempting - it is NOT the best method to gain information, it is a method to wear down the interrogated.
A break for rest and sleep is appropriate.
SarahW,
I agree the parents need sleep and rest. BUT baby Lisa disappeared late Monday night or early Tuesday morning, meaning her parents were probably questioned all day Tuesday. Today is Sat. Oct 8th. They've had time to rest imo.
The parents could easily ask LE to come to their home to talk with them if they felt more comfortable.
imo
JeannieC
10-08-2011, 08:57 PM
In Ohio, that law is still on the books. You have to prove the husband is not the father even if you both know for a fact he isnt.
Ohio also has a law on the books that states its illegal to spit tobacco from the second floor of the court house into the lobby below. :floorlaugh:
southern_comfort
10-08-2011, 08:58 PM
Someone ages ago explained to me that those laws were written and necessary at a time when there was no way to prove paternity.
There is also an element of protection of the child, to prevent harm or scandal associated with being the product of an extramarital affair and to protect the stability of the family. The US Supreme Court has actually ruled (http://www.casebriefs.com/blog/law/constitutional-law/constitutional-law-keyed-to-chemerinsky/fundamental-fights-under-due-process-and-equal-protection/michael-h-v-gerald-d-2/2/) that a man has no right to interfere with a family or to exercise his paternity, even when DNA has proven that he is certainly a child's biological father.
mrye4709
10-08-2011, 08:58 PM
In the state of Tennessee, when this type of situation occurs, no divorce is granted until the birth of the child and then a DNA test is done. A young couple I know were separated, the mother had a boyfriend and became pregnant. Even though BOTH the mother and her soon to be Ex said the child was not his, their divorce was not granted until the results of the DNA came back.
I would think that in these days, any time there is a question, DNA would be gathered.
My son went thru this in OK. His GF left him and married a man in MO, when she divorced him my son went to a lawyer and had his name put on the BC and did so without a DNA test, but did have a statement from the ex. I never understood how they did that.
SuziQ
10-08-2011, 08:58 PM
After reading and watching for three days, I did not know JI waited two days to mention the cell phones were missing. Is this correct or somehow out of context?
That is not correct. LE was informed immediately.
Mojen
10-08-2011, 09:00 PM
I wonder if her checkered past has more to do some type of welfare fraud such as food stamps or unpaid debts and running from collectors.
JMO
Per Missouri CaseNet, she has only been sued for one alleged nonpayment, and that case was dismissed.
I watched the newscast when it was on tv, my opinion was they were talking about a bad family situation, nothing more.
I am interested for the news at 10:00pm to here from RR (his ex). Not that I am suspicious of him, I am interested in what she says about him.
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 09:00 PM
Sleep deprivation only breaks a person down, which is exactly what police were attempting - it is NOT the best method to gain information, it is a method to wear down the interrogated.
A break for rest and sleep is appropriate.
Respectfully... yes...wasn't that the ultimate goal? They obviously had a reason to keep talking to the parents. A person will not be sleep deprived after 11 hours of questioning, even if they have been awake for the previous 11 hours. We know that dad was, but according to mom, she had sleep already before dad came home, and she was the one reportedly being questioned and accused the most. When you think of 11 hours, this time would fly by with talking to different people, taking the polygraph, telling the story several times. It's really not that much. And, I believe that they were offered something to drink during this time, given time to go to the bathroom, etc. Sure, they were not allowed to go home, but I bet they got time to do minor personal things.
LE has the responsibility of bringing the child home. They aren't going to get to the truth without questioning people, especially the parents.
Mels3kidz
10-08-2011, 09:01 PM
You want to know the frustrating thing? The local affiliate here (tx)just this hour said the parents had been named 'chief suspects by investigators' after the failed LD. This kind of misinformation is unacceptable to say the least.:banghead::furious::banghead: I knew better, but many won't.
Are you in San Antonio too? That's what our local news just said.
Mel
Just-a-Guy
10-08-2011, 09:01 PM
Ohio also has a law on the books that states its illegal to spit tobacco from the second floor of the court house into the lobby below. :floorlaugh:
... Somehow I'm glad I don't live in Ohio... (j/k).
nursebeeme
10-08-2011, 09:02 PM
Well there are about 5 moderators sitting in this thread right now and it has been said repeatedly that we are not sleuthing out any other crime rumored to being related to this case based on a rumor that was deleted earlier. Rumors do not belong on WS.
Don't continue along this path.
---------------------------> what she said:rocker:
Jacie Estes
10-08-2011, 09:03 PM
I know I have a link if not on my timeline, then it's saved, but I'm trying to put dinner on the table.
The first day a reporter either used bad sentence structure, or just got the whole thing wrong. The report stated that the phones were taken and it read like LE had confiscated the phones. Not correct. The phones were taken and LE knew right away.
MY opinion below:
I believe LE did not want to release any info about the missing phones and are not happy with the family that they did.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong in any way. :)
BBM Bird'sEye VOILA dinners and the microwave have been the 'cooking' in our house these last few days. :) Thank you for all the work you are doing to keep us up to date.
TGIRecovered
10-08-2011, 09:03 PM
Thanks. I will go back to lurking on this thread and following the trail that MSM provides us.
You are very welcome!
Don't feel bad, lots of us have had to delete a post when we get all caught up in a case. I've learned to always do a final check before I hit "post"! ( well, almost always!):innocent:
marge_rita
10-08-2011, 09:03 PM
No. I think it was not revealed by LE that the phones were missing. A relative supposedly wrote that " more than just the baby was taken " paraphrasing...And I think that either Jeremy or Deb then did tell a reporter about the phones being gone. I believe LE knew about the cell phones right away...MOO
Thank you liz b. I'm trying to keep up and I'm still missing things.
imo
Mojen
10-08-2011, 09:03 PM
My son went thru this in OK. His GF left him and married a man in MO, when she divorced him my son went to a lawyer and had his name put on the BC and did so without a DNA test, but did have a statement from the ex. I never understood how they did that.
It's easy and requires no DNA testing as long as both parties agree. :)
ClaireNC
10-08-2011, 09:04 PM
Well, I know for a FACT that I could sit and answer questions until I physically dropped if my child was missing and that there was ANY chance at all of finding the child by what I was able to tell them. Not to say that I wouldn't go unglued several times during the interview, but I'd do it because I believe that my discomfort would take a minor role compared to my missing child.
While my incident was minor, it brings perspective on how LE take the smallest things as being threatening or not being co-operative. If you think about the people that LE generally deals with, it is easier to understand.
My son graduated college about a month after he turned 18. A few days after graduation he and some friends were celebrating by lighting off some fire works. Unfortunately, they crossed into land owned by the NJ dept of transit to do their celebration i.e. they were "near" some train tracks. The police came and arrested them. Since my son was the only one over the age of 18, he was cuffed and thrown in the back of a police car. The other 3 boys with him were 17. My son managed to call me in a panic from back of the car and I jumped in the car and drove to the police station.
Since the other boys were minors, the parents were welcomed and escorted right away into the back. I sat for over 2 hours waiting to hear any news about my son. I asked at the desk, waited another 1/2 hour and asked again. When I went back the second time, an officer came out and said I was being threatening and needed to be guarded. So I sat for another 2 hours with a police guard until they finally decided to let my son come home...just as the sun was rising.
gliving
10-08-2011, 09:04 PM
What time was the interview? If it started at 9 am and lasted 11 hours until 8 pm. they would probably have been very tired but not IMO sleep deprived yet. At least, not because of the interview. They might have had several sleepless nights before that but I'm not sure if it can be laid solely on the LE's door, I bet many parents of missing children have trouble sleeping.
I think LE likes to question a person for as many hours as they can for severao reasons. Very important would be to see if the person starts showing signs of drug or alcohol withdraw.
Not saying that's the case here by any means.
nursebeeme
10-08-2011, 09:05 PM
:waitasec: Hu? JI waited 2 days to mention missing phones?
the missing phones were reported on day one... I forget which thread it is in... I posted the video/link to it.... ((the aunt is the one who told the reporter 'the phones were taken' and the reporter mis-reported it that LE had taken the phones))
it may (the link) be in shelby's timeline??? ((I need to look))
In da Middle
10-08-2011, 09:05 PM
There is no name attached to the address (gained via google view) in Knowx. I hope that's an ok sleuth to mention as it produced nothing. There appear to be civilians in the yard speaking to officers, though. I have no idea what the significance is, but you would think neighbors would notice any recent squatter or shenanigans. Wasn't there, per a local, discusison of a nearby foreclosed property being renovated?
If you are out there, local person, is this the non-lived in house?
Not going into the name attached to the property but no this is NOT an abandoned house and NO this is not the foreclosed property no squatters. This is what it is. As I mentioned before 'issues'.
Wishbone
10-08-2011, 09:05 PM
I've never heard such a thing, no. And certainly not in an estranged or separated situation. No idea where you got that. Matrimonial law varies dramatically from state to state, but I've never heard anything like that before. The father is the father.
Hard to believe and varies from state to state.....
In many states, whenever a child is born to a married couple, the husband is automatically presumed to be the father. This is know as the "presumption of paternity."
Some states even take the presumption of paternity one step further by not allowing a man to disprove biological paternity through DNA. As a result, some men are forced to pay child support for children they have not biologically fathered.
epiphany
10-08-2011, 09:06 PM
Jeanne P Show
JP: hear DNA taken from teen who had access to garage?
Captain Steve Young (tonight): ...i can assure you we are trying everything
mindi77
10-08-2011, 09:06 PM
I've never heard such a thing, no. And certainly not in an estranged or separated situation. No idea where you got that. Matrimonial law varies dramatically from state to state, but I've never heard anything like that before. The father is the father.
I was not with my ex for a few years and didnt get a divorce at the time couldn't afford it when me and my new boyfriend had our son. They wouldn't let me get divorced till he was born and said my said would have to have my ex listed as the father because we were still married. I said the hell I do, when I gave birth they said are you married....I said nope and it worked out but the tried to do that.
AnaTeresa
10-08-2011, 09:06 PM
Really? Well, jeez, I never heard any such thing before. As far as I know, there is no such thing as "constitutional law" on marriage. Or at least very little of it (that's why the states are free to "recognize" different kinds of marriages, for example). But hey, anything is possible in the world of matrimonial law.... Sadly.
It came up in constitutional law class (law student here) - I believe the case had to do with saying the pledge in school, or something to that effect, where the biological father was trying to assert a constitutional right with regards to his biological child, but the Supreme Court ruled she was legally considered the child of the spouse, since she was conceived in marriage. Con Law was two years ago for me, so I'm fuzzy on the details, but I know that back in the day, kids in marriage were considered the child of the spouse, despite true paternity - but as I said, I'm sure things have changed since then.
epiphany
10-08-2011, 09:07 PM
Jeanne P: was front door locked or unlocked?
Mom: I don't remember
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 09:07 PM
You mean you're a CSI Miami fan??? Oh, the horror!!!
(joke).
I wish we would get some news about Lisa, or suspects or anything. We're like a bunch of cats chasing our tails at this point.
SHUT YOUR MOUTH about me being a CSI Miami fan! lol I would rather chew on razor blades!!! Actually, tried to watch CSI something one time and couldn't even get to the first commercial before I turned it off.
I think that news will be coming soon. I have to admit that I don't know what that news will be, but I just don't feel that this case will be one that isn't solved.
Cappuccino
10-08-2011, 09:08 PM
Respectfully... yes...wasn't that the ultimate goal? They obviously had a reason to keep talking to the parents. A person will not be sleep deprived after 11 hours of questioning, even if they have been awake for the previous 11 hours. We know that dad was, but according to mom, she had sleep already before dad came home, and she was the one reportedly being questioned and accused the most. When you think of 11 hours, this time would fly by with talking to different people, taking the polygraph, telling the story several times. It's really not that much. And, I believe that they were offered something to drink during this time, given time to go to the bathroom, etc. Sure, they were not allowed to go home, but I bet they got time to do minor personal things.
LE has the responsibility of bringing the child home. They aren't going to get to the truth without questioning people, especially the parents.
Studies into false confessions have shown that 12 hours is the most dangerous time. Regardless of whether they've been to the bathroom or had a drink or snack, after 12 hours of questioning an innocent person is most at risk of confessing to a crime they didn't commit.
Jerry Hobbs withstood 14, but that didn't save him from 5 years in prison while a serial killer was running around killing other children. So I repeat, if you find yourself being questioned for 11 hours solid by LE, even with the odd bathroom break, the wise thing to do is end the interview and insist on going home.
And what else did LE need anyway? What questions did they neglect to ask during those 11 hours? I know full well parents need to be questioned, and I know crimes can't be cleared in an hour, but what exactly did LE expect to get in the 12th hour that they didn't get in the first 11?
It sounds to me like they had tunnel vision because the mom failed her polygraph and they were in the process of rail roading, when the husband very sensibly put a stop to it.
SuziQ
10-08-2011, 09:08 PM
I wonder if her checkered past has more to do some type of welfare fraud such as food stamps or unpaid debts and running from collectors.
JMO
I think the video interview revealed that there wasn't a checkered past.
MyBelle
10-08-2011, 09:09 PM
Respectfully... yes...wasn't that the ultimate goal? They obviously had a reason to keep talking to the parents. A person will not be sleep deprived after 11 hours of questioning, even if they have been awake for the previous 11 hours. We know that dad was, but according to mom, she had sleep already before dad came home, and she was the one reportedly being questioned and accused the most. When you think of 11 hours, this time would fly by with talking to different people, taking the polygraph, telling the story several times. It's really not that much. And, I believe that they were offered something to drink during this time, given time to go to the bathroom, etc. Sure, they were not allowed to go home, but I bet they got time to do minor personal things.
LE has the responsibility of bringing the child home. They aren't going to get to the truth without questioning people, especially the parents.
I have to agree. I don't know how any mother could sleep during that time whether being questioned or not.
JMO
marge_rita
10-08-2011, 09:09 PM
the missing phones were reported on day one... I forget which thread it is in... I posted the video/link to it.... ((the aunt is the one who told the reporter 'the phones were taken' and the reporter mis-reported it that LE had taken the phones))
it may (the link) be in shelby's timeline??? ((I need to look))
Someone posted it for me (us) a few pages back.
LE immediately knew the phones were missing. The public didn't. ;)
MyBelle
10-08-2011, 09:10 PM
I think the video interview revealed that there wasn't a checkered past.
okay. I thought it was some type of teaser for a news report not yet aired. Thanks.
davehead21
10-08-2011, 09:10 PM
Respectfully... yes...wasn't that the ultimate goal? They obviously had a reason to keep talking to the parents. A person will not be sleep deprived after 11 hours of questioning, even if they have been awake for the previous 11 hours. We know that dad was, but according to mom, she had sleep already before dad came home, and she was the one reportedly being questioned and accused the most. When you think of 11 hours, this time would fly by with talking to different people, taking the polygraph, telling the story several times. It's really not that much. And, I believe that they were offered something to drink during this time, given time to go to the bathroom, etc. Sure, they were not allowed to go home, but I bet they got time to do minor personal things.
LE has the responsibility of bringing the child home. They aren't going to get to the truth without questioning people, especially the parents.
I'm sorry but 11 hours while my child was missing would most certainly NOT fly by. Not saying that's not where the mother should've been but I don't think that time flew by for her. :twocents:
AnaTeresa
10-08-2011, 09:10 PM
... Somehow I'm glad I don't live in Ohio... (j/k).
We also can't eat cornflakes on Sunday BUT, no one may be arrested on Sunday or on the Fourth of July, so it's not so bad.*
*Yes, we ignore these laws.
Just-a-Guy
10-08-2011, 09:10 PM
There is also an element of protection of the child, to prevent harm or scandal associated with being the product of an extramarital affair and to protect the stability of the family. The US Supreme Court has actually ruled (http://www.casebriefs.com/blog/law/constitutional-law/constitutional-law-keyed-to-chemerinsky/fundamental-fights-under-due-process-and-equal-protection/michael-h-v-gerald-d-2/2/) that a man has no right to interfere with a family or to exercise his paternity, even when DNA has proven that he is certainly a child's biological father.
Fascinating. I just had a quick look at the case. It looks like the Court held that there was not a constitutional issue... IOW, due process was not implicated by a state law that created a presumption of paternity in favor of the husband. So it's one of those "reverse constitutional law" cases. Meaning, there is no constitutional law...it's a state law question. So, the Supreme Court holding was not "that a man has no right to interfere with a family or to exercise his paternity..." That would be an affirmative constitutional ruling (and would surprise me). The holding was simply that the state law creating the presumption was not unconstitutional.
I'm learning stuff here, though. Very interesting...and potentially relevant to this case. Thanks...
epiphany
10-08-2011, 09:11 PM
Jeanne P
Mom: him coming in t bedroom; he came in bedroom-why r the lights on? why is t screen popped out? I don't know what ur talking about...he asked why M (son in her bed) was there...he came in t room and he asked where Lisa was...
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 09:11 PM
While my incident was minor, it brings perspective on how LE take the smallest things as being threatening or not being co-operative. If you think about the people that LE generally deals with, it is easier to understand.
My son graduated college about a month after he turned 18. A few days after graduation he and some friends were celebrating by lighting off some fire works. Unfortunately, they crossed into land owned by the NJ dept of transit to do their celebration i.e. they were "near" some train tracks. The police came and arrested them. Since my son was the only one over the age of 18, he was cuffed and thrown in the back of a police car. The other 3 boys with him were 17. My son managed to call me in a panic from back of the car and I jumped in the car and drove to the police station.
Since the other boys were minors, the parents were welcomed and escorted right away into the back. I sat for over 2 hours waiting to hear any news about my son. I asked at the desk, waited another 1/2 hour and asked again. When I went back the second time, an officer came out and said I was being threatening and needed to be guarded. So I sat for another 2 hours with a police guard until they finally decided to let my son come home...just as the sun was rising.
I can see why you would have your view then. And thank God that your situation WAS a minor one in comparison to this. But, when you think about it, if they were that hard on your son for something like that, you can understand how they could have been so strong with the parents. There can be several factors in interrogations and each one is unique. I hope your case turned out okay in the end.
Dee10
10-08-2011, 09:11 PM
ISN'T FOX Justice airing the interview of the parent NOW? I don't get FOX, anyone watching, is it on?
MyBelle
10-08-2011, 09:12 PM
Studies into false confessions have shown that 12 hours is the most dangerous time. Regardless of whether they've been to the bathroom or had a drink or snack, after 12 hours of questioning an innocent person is most at risk of confessing to a crime they didn't commit.
Jerry Hobbs withstood 14, but that didn't save him from 5 years in prison while a serial killer was running around killing other children. So I repeat, if you find yourself being questioned for 11 hours solid by LE, even with the odd bathroom break, the wise thing to do is end the interview and insist on going home.
And what else did LE need anyway? What questions did they neglect to ask during those 11 hours? I know full well parents need to be questioned, and I know crimes can't be cleared in an hour, but what exactly did LE expect to get in the 12th hour that they didn't get in the first 11?
It sounds to me like they had tunnel vision because the mom failed her polygraph and they were in the process of rail roading, when the husband very sensibly put a stop to it.
As far as I know, there have been no confessions in this case, false or otherwise.
badhorsie
10-08-2011, 09:12 PM
...followed by my mother's term "a woman of the night"
Or my Nans term "a strumpet"
Wishbone
10-08-2011, 09:12 PM
Computer room window left open
Doesn’t remember if she locked the front door or not
JI asked why screen popped out on window?
Then JI says Baby’s door open, JI went back to check and she is not there
Commercial break
Cappuccino
10-08-2011, 09:12 PM
SHUT YOUR MOUTH about me being a CSI Miami fan! lol I would rather chew on razor blades!!! Actually, tried to watch CSI something one time and couldn't even get to the first commercial before I turned it off.
I think that news will be coming soon. I have to admit that I don't know what that news will be, but I just don't feel that this case will be one that isn't solved.
Lol to the first paragraph. CSI Miami is the worst thing ever, I watched one episode of that thing, and there was a big fight on a helipad, and then a scorpion started slowly crawling towards the hero with dramatic music in the background. One to file under "so bad its funny."
I hope you're right about the case not being unsolved. I truly hope so.
twall
10-08-2011, 09:13 PM
JMHO but the 'local' media is exploiting this baby with some borderline journalism; it went from Debbie's checkered past to her family's checkered past. This is about a missing baby not a rating's boost.
Oh boy, here we go. I'm having deja vu of the Hailey Dunn case. Not good!
Everyone has faults, so what?!! It doesn't mean they were involved in their child's disappearance. :sigh:
I am still curious as to what gaps LE is referring to that they say Debbie can't clear up. If one is asleep you would have gaps!
southern_comfort
10-08-2011, 09:15 PM
Just another thing to bear in mind, when considering these rest days and refusal to submit to grueling interviews:
I believe professionals say it takes a year to recover from pregnancy. Mom is still recovering from Lisa's birth and may not be 100% physically there yet. High blood pressure is closely tied to lack of sleep, so if she suffers any blood pressure problems as a result of the pregnancy (not uncommon) or just in general, it may be imperative for her health that she be rested, far beyond the unpleasant state of exhaustion most of us would have to endure.
Dead, she'd be no good to anybody.
epiphany
10-08-2011, 09:15 PM
JP: what's first thing u thought?
Mom: maybe one of t boys picked her up...i don't know
JP: did anyone come to mind?
Mom: no, not really...panic, thoughts racing, dream
Mom: [re the boys] yeah, t boys woke up...screaming her name
Wishbone
10-08-2011, 09:15 PM
Mother felt panic
Boys woke up and crying
JI used work phone to call 911
lonetraveler
10-08-2011, 09:15 PM
What time was the interview? If it started at 9 am and lasted 11 hours until 8 pm. they would probably have been very tired but not IMO sleep deprived yet. At least, not because of the interview. They might have had several sleepless nights before that but I'm not sure if it can be laid solely on the LE's door, I bet many parents of missing children have trouble sleeping.
I just wanted to post to say that I totally agree with your post and to add that if the parents were so fatigued that they could not proceed to speak with the very people who were searching for their baby, then why did they then go on the media blitz and give interviews???
epiphany
10-08-2011, 09:16 PM
re 3 cell phones missing
Captain: i can confirm family told us 3 cells taken, but if that led to anything we would have put that out...
Dr.Fessel
10-08-2011, 09:16 PM
Jeanne P
Mom: him coming in t bedroom; he came in bedroom-why r the lights on? why is t screen popped out? I don't know what ur talking about...he asked why M (son in her bed) was there...he came in t room and he asked where Lisa was...
Where is that from?
jadejazzkayla
10-08-2011, 09:16 PM
I don't see a mod in here right now, hopefully one is...but we are not supposed to sleuth people that aren't named as suspects....at least that's what my understanding is.
were mom and dad named as suspects? i missed it if so.
MyBelle
10-08-2011, 09:16 PM
While my incident was minor, it brings perspective on how LE take the smallest things as being threatening or not being co-operative. If you think about the people that LE generally deals with, it is easier to understand.
My son graduated college about a month after he turned 18. A few days after graduation he and some friends were celebrating by lighting off some fire works. Unfortunately, they crossed into land owned by the NJ dept of transit to do their celebration i.e. they were "near" some train tracks. The police came and arrested them. Since my son was the only one over the age of 18, he was cuffed and thrown in the back of a police car. The other 3 boys with him were 17. My son managed to call me in a panic from back of the car and I jumped in the car and drove to the police station.
Since the other boys were minors, the parents were welcomed and escorted right away into the back. I sat for over 2 hours waiting to hear any news about my son. I asked at the desk, waited another 1/2 hour and asked again. When I went back the second time, an officer came out and said I was being threatening and needed to be guarded. So I sat for another 2 hours with a police guard until they finally decided to let my son come home...just as the sun was rising.
wow. How old was your son when he entered college? Graduating at 18 is really something. Congrats on that part.
angeleleven
10-08-2011, 09:17 PM
Interview with Judge Jeanine is very interesting.
liz b.
10-08-2011, 09:17 PM
Jeanne P
Mom: him coming in t bedroom; he came in bedroom-why r the lights on? why is t screen popped out? I don't know what ur talking about...he asked why M (son in her bed) was there...he came in t room and he asked where Lisa was...
He asked why M was there ? I wonder what her response was ? I know, this was the first night he (Jeremy ) had worked, but I find it interesting that he connected M's presence in his mom's bed with all of the other strange stuff, like the lights being on, screen on window popped out etc. Makes it seem like a highly unusual situation for M to be sleeping in his parents' room...MOO Wonder why he was ?
epiphany
10-08-2011, 09:18 PM
Captain Young: re phone call at 2:38 from 1 of phones
can't discuss
i challenge anyone to think of anything we haven't done
Jeanne P: father's car broken into last month; he made a police report
angeleleven
10-08-2011, 09:18 PM
Where is that from?
The interview with Justice with Judge Jeanine on Fox is on now.
uvamerica
10-08-2011, 09:19 PM
I know I have a link if not on my timeline, then it's saved, but I'm trying to put dinner on the table.
The first day a reporter either used bad sentence structure, or just got the whole thing wrong. The report stated that the phones were taken and it read like LE had confiscated the phones. Not correct. The phones were taken and LE knew right away.
MY opinion below:
I believe LE did not want to release any info about the missing phones and are not happy with the family that they did.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong in any way. :)
You are correct, LE knew the phones were taken, but did not tell media about them, the parents are the ones that decided media should know 3 cell phones were taken besides Lisa.
tlcya
10-08-2011, 09:19 PM
I think it is from the interview with parents being aired right now DrFessel.
Those watching are giving us bullet points on what is being covered in it.
epiphany
10-08-2011, 09:19 PM
He asked why M was there ? I wonder what her response was ? I know, this was the first night he (Jeremy ) had worked, but I find it interesting that he connected M's presence in his mom's bed with all of the other strange stuff, like the lights being on, screen on window popped out etc. Makes it seem like a highly unusual situation for M to be sleeping in his parents' room...MOO Wonder why he was ?
Yes, Mom said Dad asked her that...so must have been unusual.
Wishbone
10-08-2011, 09:19 PM
2:38 phone call….LE won’t confirm
JI reported his car was broken into last month
LE not saying much.....
sorrell skye
10-08-2011, 09:20 PM
Jeanne P: was front door locked or unlocked?
Mom: I don't remember
TY
IIRC, DB reported recently that she left the front door unlocked (for the first time).
Now she says she doesn't remember.
Okay.
twall
10-08-2011, 09:21 PM
Where is that from?
Doc it's on FOX News Channel right now, Judge Jeanine show, I can't watch, hubby has control of the remote!
nursebeeme
10-08-2011, 09:22 PM
Mother felt panic
Boys woke up and crying
JI used work phone to call 911
well I am glad this was answered at last:rocker: ((I might add it was what I figured))
marge_rita
10-08-2011, 09:22 PM
JP: what's first thing u thought?
Mom: maybe one of t boys picked her up...i don't know
JP: did anyone come to mind?
Mom: no, not really...panic, thoughts racing, dream
Mom: [re the boys] yeah, t boys woke up...screaming her name
What? The boys woke up screaming her (the babie's name) ?
The mom is all over the place.
imo
Renea
10-08-2011, 09:22 PM
I think it is pretty obvious why they are searching gutters, roof, etc... They are getting pings from the cell phones at the house still...they are searching every nook and cranny.
norest4thewicked
10-08-2011, 09:22 PM
Studies into false confessions have shown that 12 hours is the most dangerous time. Regardless of whether they've been to the bathroom or had a drink or snack, after 12 hours of questioning an innocent person is most at risk of confessing to a crime they didn't commit.
Jerry Hobbs withstood 14, but that didn't save him from 5 years in prison while a serial killer was running around killing other children. So I repeat, if you find yourself being questioned for 11 hours solid by LE, even with the odd bathroom break, the wise thing to do is end the interview and insist on going home.
And what else did LE need anyway? What questions did they neglect to ask during those 11 hours? I know full well parents need to be questioned, and I know crimes can't be cleared in an hour, but what exactly did LE expect to get in the 12th hour that they didn't get in the first 11?
It sounds to me like they had tunnel vision because the mom failed her polygraph and they were in the process of rail roading, when the husband very sensibly put a stop to it.
My first question would be..."Dangerous to who?" My second would be...do you have a source for that "study?"
We don't know what LE needed...and we probably never will...but they saw something in that interview that caused them to want to go further.
And, for you to say that they were "railroading" the mom shows to me a bias towards LE anyway...so not sure that our discussion will ever be worth much.
I am not at all biased. I personally don't know what to believe yet, and am not saying the parents did it or that someone else did it, BUT, what I am saying that for a possible murdered baby, 11 hours is not too long to be questioned. And that is my honest opinion.
lonetraveler
10-08-2011, 09:23 PM
Studies into false confessions have shown that 12 hours is the most dangerous time. Regardless of whether they've been to the bathroom or had a drink or snack, after 12 hours of questioning an innocent person is most at risk of confessing to a crime they didn't commit.
Jerry Hobbs withstood 14, but that didn't save him from 5 years in prison while a serial killer was running around killing other children. So I repeat, if you find yourself being questioned for 11 hours solid by LE, even with the odd bathroom break, the wise thing to do is end the interview and insist on going home.
And what else did LE need anyway? What questions did they neglect to ask during those 11 hours? I know full well parents need to be questioned, and I know crimes can't be cleared in an hour, but what exactly did LE expect to get in the 12th hour that they didn't get in the first 11?
It sounds to me like they had tunnel vision because the mom failed her polygraph and they were in the process of rail roading, when the husband very sensibly put a stop to it.
I would think that any "failed polygraph" would put any LE dept. into "tunnel vision". I know it put me into tunnel vision on every missing child case that I have followed, and it is many.
Mojen
10-08-2011, 09:23 PM
What? The boys woke up screaming her (the babie's name) ?
The mom is all over the place.
imo
She said the boys woke up because mom and dad were screaming the baby's name.
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