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View Full Version : MO - AMBER ALERT: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #10



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Lavanda Dolce
10-09-2011, 11:26 AM
Hopefully they are going through the family computer...I don't recall seeing them taking that out of the house ? Does anyone know if that transpired? Many clues are found on the family computer and Deborah was on it that night as she left that window open. Could she have posted her husband was away on a night shift job?

JBean
10-09-2011, 11:26 AM
Wow. I see absolutely none of that. I wouldn't be able to even guess at a single emotion a single person in that picture was feeling, even if my life depended on it.

I definitely don't see anything to indicate anything is confrontational, heated, serious, overwhelmed, scared, or upset.

Just... wow, GardenLady. I just don't see how you are getting all that out of that picture. I must be completely brain dead.
I am sure you are not brain dead beane! I think different people take different things from pictures. Why something strikes one person one way and someone else another is hard to define.
Shoot think how many times you and I and others have looked at the exact same information and interpreted it completely differently. What is it? daily? LOL

annalia
10-09-2011, 11:26 AM
Yes, being fingered as the suspect in a child's disappearance would be profoundly upsetting to anyone. If the teen is innocent, that would be emotionally devastating. I don't know how well I would have been able to handle a situation like that at that age. I think I would seriously come unglued!

The teen was fingered as the suspect?? Where does this come from, I haven't heard that.

As far as the teen, unless I missed it and LE said he or she was a suspect, this could be nothing more than LE being thorough. They knew the teen was there and anyone close to the home or family would undoubtedly be questioned. I don't even see taking DNA necessarily as evidence that LE say the teen is a suspect.

JMHO

SuziQ
10-09-2011, 11:27 AM
So the person in the pic is the teen that had the DNA taken? How do we know that?

TIA

It's been vetted locally.

BeanE
10-09-2011, 11:27 AM
See, that is the thing. The public does not even know if the person on the steps is a person even related to the case at all.

It is pure speculation that the teen, who was questioned and the teen whose DNA sample was taken are even the same teen.

In addition, the public doesn't even know if the teen, in question, is male or female.

Or if the teen, in question, is the same teen as has been stated to have been in the house earlier in the day.

So far, everything about "the teen" is all speculation.

That's what I was afraid of. Whoever that person is in the picture, I really feel sorry for him or her. Most especially if he or she is a minor.

Lavanda Dolce
10-09-2011, 11:27 AM
I didn't see it in the timeline -- Do we have a time when Lisa was last seen by someone besides her family or this unidentified teenager?

7:30 pm by mom and brothers. That is when she was put to bed.

10:30 pm mom checked on baby Lisa before she went to bed. Closed her bedroom door following and went to bed with her six year old son, the new stray kitten while the 8 year old son of Jeremy went to bed in the other bedroom. (his and six year old's bedroom.Albeit, as stated above six year old went with mom.)

curiositycat
10-09-2011, 11:28 AM
I grew up in a small town and our home was not the best. It was warm, it was filled with love but we were poor. I have fond memories of that home because I knew I was loved and that my parents gave me values and saw to it that I had what I needed. Not what I wanted but what I needed. This teen is not responsible for being born into a home that does not meet our "standards". I was embarrassed as a child by the outside of my home, my father ran a used car part business in the rear of the property. Yes a junk yard. But, he was there taking care of us, he was loving and we had tons of home-made fun and the outside, I learned years later isn't what makes us who we are. I have fond memories of that old home and helping Dad fix it up as I grew older. I was a straight A student and through eduction for myself I was able to provide more for my family and I have been quite successful in life.

A house is a house. A home is a home.

You brought a tear to my eye with that one GM. So true, a family is a home, not the size or condition of the house.

HatesSociopaths
10-09-2011, 11:28 AM
Sorry BeanE I missed this, thread moving fast again.

I think the teen is involved based on other factors listed before (fits details we know, DNA sample taken, etc) but the picture says a lot to me based on the posture of the people in it. They appear pretty confrontational in the group on the left, or at least heated or quite serious. The person alone on the step seems overwhelmed, scared, or upset.

So it's not that the pic is evidence of involvement, just says a lot going on, and something serious going on there, to me.

Maybe the "something serious" is that they are investigating the disappearance of a baby.

This teen has nothing to do with this until implicated by LE. Asking for DNA is routine, it helps narrow things down. It doesn't mean he is involved. I think we should heed what the mods are asking here.
:innocent:
:twocents:
:seeya:

BeanE
10-09-2011, 11:28 AM
Our verified local ID'd the house as the one the teen lives in.

Ah okay. I missed that. Wow. Poor kid if he has nothing to do with what happened to Lisa.

SuziQ
10-09-2011, 11:28 AM
IIRC,The DNA taken was reported by media days ago. I couldn't begin to try to find the link now.

ETA: might have come out more currently. Days are running together!

liz b.
10-09-2011, 11:29 AM
In the interview we discussed last night :

Jeremy said that he knew something was wrong when he saw that most of the lights in the house were on. Then he said " She usually only leaves a few lights on " paraphrasing. So, doesn't that mean that Deb was in the habit of leaving house lights on ? I presume that it means that she did this even when Jeremy was home ? Because wasn't this his first night shift ?

I'm thinking that Deb left the lights on. Has she ever indicated otherwise ? I think she forgot to turn them off.And forgot to lock her front door... Which is strange since their car was previously broken into, and she was supposedly alone there with the children... MOO

grandmaj
10-09-2011, 11:29 AM
The facts.

All MSM has reported is that a teenager, not the teenager pictured but A teenaged neighbor was questioned for about an hour, and because he had been in the home of Lisa he had DNA taken.

And that the youth lived at the house in the video.

All the rest is RUMOR.

annalia
10-09-2011, 11:29 AM
Wow. I see absolutely none of that. I wouldn't be able to even guess at a single emotion a single person in that picture was feeling, even if my life depended on it.

I definitely don't see anything to indicate anything is confrontational, heated, serious, overwhelmed, scared, or upset.

Just... wow, GardenLady. I just don't see how you are getting all that out of that picture. I must be completely brain dead.

I remember there being a video posted that showed the same group as in the photo. The threads are moving so fast I probably couldn't find it, but if it's from the same time which it looked like it was, the video didn't show that it was confontational or heated, a few of them were laughing in it and seemed relaxed.

Lavanda Dolce
10-09-2011, 11:30 AM
As for the media thing, IMO, it could be because they do NOT want Lisa's picture out there. If the child has been given away, or sold, and this is all hypothetical, then you wouldn't want anybody to recognize her now would you? The way children grow and change, in 2 or 3 months, she probably wouldn't be as recognizable when out and about.

When flying within the US, do children have to have any kind of ID, especially if they are going to sit on the lap? I know internationally they have to have a passport, and sometimes, it's necessary to provide documentation that you have permission to take the child out of the country.

I keep hoping that this child is with someone who wanted a child, but maybe they only wanted a blond haired, blue eyed child. One that would look more like themselves.

I do not believe if you take an infant on the plane that you have to show ID for the infant? Does anybody know this? I have seen many families fly with infants and have been in line in front of me after getting tickets from a Kiosk and then in line in front of me through security and I honestly can say, I only see them check the parent driver license and tickets.

Gardenlady
10-09-2011, 11:31 AM
This is the link I had from yesterday a.m. Teen question, DNA sample taken:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-teen-questioned-police-california-tip/t/story?id=14695496

JBean
10-09-2011, 11:31 AM
I hate to even say this-but I have been trying to figure out why this weight issue is bothering me. It seems so basic to know your childs weight and to make sure it is accurate on a missing flyer.
Didn't we see that on the missing flyers for Caylee Anthony? I think her weight was overstated by quite a bit-am I remembering that correctly?

Could be something-could be nothing.

SuziQ
10-09-2011, 11:31 AM
The facts.

All MSM has reported is that a teenager, not the teenager pictured but Ateenaged neighbor was questioned for about an hour, and because he had been in the home of Lisa he had DNA taken.

All the rest is RUMOR.

I believe the house is accurate?

Gardenlady
10-09-2011, 11:32 AM
Apologies for the double post... Got an error message the first time I tried. Server must be hiccuping with all the traffic!

momtective
10-09-2011, 11:32 AM
So the person in the pic is the teen that had the DNA taken? How do we know that?

TIA

Yes according to our verified local, he is the kid...and yes, according to our verified local the kid in this video is him.
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-steve-young-kcpd-lisa-irwin-update-20111008,0,6871031.story

BeanE
10-09-2011, 11:32 AM
I am sure you are not brain dead beane! I think different people take different things from pictures. Why something strikes one person one way and someone else another is hard to define.
Shoot think how many times you and I and others have looked at the exact same information and interpreted it completely differently. What is it? daily? LOL

Indeed! I still have the scars to prove it! Fresh wounds, in fact.

SuziQ
10-09-2011, 11:32 AM
This is the link I had from yesterday a.m. Teen question, DNA sample taken:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-teen-questioned-police-california-tip/t/story?id=14695496

God bless you!

grandmaj
10-09-2011, 11:33 AM
I believe the house is accurate?

I fixed my post. Thanks.

Chris_Texas
10-09-2011, 11:34 AM
To you.

Also, I don't think anyone said it speaks volumes to the teen being involved. To me, it shows something heavy is happening in that discussion, and the person by themselves seems fairly upset by it.

Considering the adults are discussing a missing and possibly murdered child I would say yes, something heavy is being discussed. But to be clear, you would find it LESS suspicious if LE were having this heated discussion with the kid? Is that not backwards?

In any case, there is nothing unusual or suspicious about someone wanting to be alone for a while in their grief -- particularly a kid, and even more so if the adults are talking about things he prefers not to think about. Before accusing someone of behaving unusually, it is best to consider what normal behavior would be. Sitting by yourself is evidence of one thing only: that at the moment in time that this image was captured this kid either didn't feel like hanging with the adults or was asked by the adults to go away. That's it.

In this particular case there is absolutely NOTHING to suggest that this kid was involved at all. Nothing to support this theory, including statistics or the few facts we know about this case. The only reason he is being mentioned here at all is that...

1. He is a teen, teens are scary
2. He is a male, men are both are scary and guilty
3. He isn't mom, and it couldn't have been her

BeanE
10-09-2011, 11:34 AM
So the person in the pic is the teen that had the DNA taken? How do we know that?

TIA


It's been vetted locally.

How? Where? Please point me to that?

Shelby1
10-09-2011, 11:34 AM
IIRC,The DNA taken was reported by media days ago. I couldn't begin to try to find the link now.

ETA: might have come out more currently. Days are running together!


From my timeline ;)


**Possible new lead. Teenage neighbor being questioned. Also, DNA taken from teen. Neighbor was home the day Lisa disappeared and also knew the code to get into the garage.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-teen-questioned-police-california-tip/story?id=14695496

SurfieTX
10-09-2011, 11:34 AM
I do not believe if you take an infant on the plane that you have to show ID for the infant? Does anybody know this? I have seen many families fly with infants and have been in line in front of me after getting tickets from a Kiosk and then in line in front of me through security and I honestly can say, I only see them check the parent driver license and tickets.

When my kids have flown in the past alone or with us, security just checks our IDs, not the kids.

Tuffy
10-09-2011, 11:35 AM
The teen was fingered as the suspect?? Where does this come from, I haven't heard that.

As far as the teen, unless I missed it and LE said he or she was a suspect, this could be nothing more than LE being thorough. They knew the teen was there and anyone close to the home or family would undoubtedly be questioned. I don't even see taking DNA necessarily as evidence that LE say the teen is a suspect.

JMHO

I think the family mentioned he was someone they suspected, and that is what led the police to question, and take DNA from him/her.

Gardenlady
10-09-2011, 11:35 AM
Maybe the "something serious" is that they are investigating the disappearance of a baby.

This teen has nothing to do with this until implicated by LE. Asking for DNA is routine, it helps narrow things down. It doesn't mean he is involved. I think we should heed what the mods are asking here.
:innocent:
:twocents:
:seeya:

I'd venture to say the teen has something to do with the story, since they have been reported in mainstream media as having been questioned, and having a DNA sample taken. Notably, it's the only mention of a DNA sample having been taken from ANYONE. :twocents:

BeanE
10-09-2011, 11:35 AM
The facts.

All MSM has reported is that a teenager, not the teenager pictured but A teenaged neighbor was questioned for about an hour, and because he had been in the home of Lisa he had DNA taken.

And that the youth lived at the house in the video.

All the rest is RUMOR.

Ah. Thank you, grammie. :grouphug:

Shelby1
10-09-2011, 11:35 AM
How? Where? Please point me to that?
NimaKCTV5 (http://yfrog.com/user/NimaKCTV5/profile) 2 hours 14 mins ago Twitter (http://twitter.com/)
Detectives from @kcpolice (http://yfrog.com/user/kcpolice/profile) at this home in #LisaIrwin (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23LisaIrwin) neighborhood for the second time. Updates on #KCTV5 (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23KCTV5) News at 6 & 10 yfrog.com/nv3btaj (http://yfrog.com/nv3btaj)--


**the above is the teen neighbor’s house.



-----

When this came out yesterday, our verified local In Da Middle verified that this is the teen's house.

mck16
10-09-2011, 11:36 AM
I do not believe if you take an infant on the plane that you have to show ID for the infant? Does anybody know this? I have seen many families fly with infants and have been in line in front of me after getting tickets from a Kiosk and then in line in front of me through security and I honestly can say, I only see them check the parent driver license and tickets.

Children under the age of 18 do not have to have an id.

BeanE
10-09-2011, 11:37 AM
I remember there being a video posted that showed the same group as in the photo. The threads are moving so fast I probably couldn't find it, but if it's from the same time which it looked like it was, the video didn't show that it was confontational or heated, a few of them were laughing in it and seemed relaxed.

Yep I remember the video. I remember them smiling and relaxed and laughing a bit.

The video was of an interview with Capt Steve Young, and the people were in the background and the camera swung over to them a few times.

mck16
10-09-2011, 11:37 AM
I'd venture to say the teen has something to do with the story, since they have been reported in mainstream media as having been questioned, and having a DNA sample taken. Notably, it's the only mention of a DNA sample having been taken from ANYONE. :twocents:


Thank you. I asked that earlier to see if anyone could confirm that for me. ty

EGirl
10-09-2011, 11:38 AM
Children under the age of 18 do not have to have an id.

My 15 year old step son had to have id last summer when he flew in.

:shrug:

BeanE
10-09-2011, 11:38 AM
Yes according to our verified local, he is the kid...and yes, according to our verified local the kid in this video is him.
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-steve-young-kcpd-lisa-irwin-update-20111008,0,6871031.story

Ah okay. Please point me to where our verified local stated that the kid in the video and picture is the DNA kid? I missed that.

Gardenlady
10-09-2011, 11:38 AM
Considering the adults are discussing a missing and possibly murdered child I would say yes, something heavy is being discussed. But to be clear, you would find it LESS suspicious if LE were having this heated discussion with the kid? Is that not backwards?

In any case, there is nothing unusual or suspicious about someone wanting to be alone for a while in their grief -- particularly a kid, and even more so if the adults are talking about things he prefers not to think about. Before accusing someone of behaving unusually, it is best to consider what normal behavior would be. Sitting by yourself is evidence of one thing only: that at the moment in time that this image was captured this kid either didn't feel like hanging with the adults or was asked by the adults to go away. That's it.

In this particular case there is absolutely NOTHING to suggest that this kid was involved at all. Nothing to support this theory, including statistics or the few facts we know about this case. The only reason he is being mentioned here at all is that...

1. He is a teen, teens are scary
2. He is a male, men are both are scary and guilty
3. He isn't mom, and it couldn't have been her

Nothing to support it except that he is the only person involved in the case to have been mentioned as having a DNA sample taken, or even questioned (besides the parents).

I'm not really scared of teens, males, or male teens, either, seeing as how I have a house full of males, a teen male son, and lots of teen males hanging around my house pretty much every weekend with my son. :twocents:

mck16
10-09-2011, 11:39 AM
My 15 year old step son had to have id last summer when he flew in.

:shrug:

My 12 and 8 year old grandsons just flew from Dallas to Portland Or. and they didn't. We confirmed with the airline security what they needed and id was not on the list.

dovebar
10-09-2011, 11:40 AM
Something posted yesterday stuck in my head overnight and I woke up thinking about it. They said that Lisa was frequently seen sitting out front with the baby and would wave to neighbors.

Now if this is true, and someone reported seeing the baby one block over at 2:30 a.m. with a man going into a house, I would not be surprised if someone has been watching for an opportunity.

Given the news in another case, about Steve Powell spying on his neighbors with a telephoto camera, I would be asking, which houses on the street one block over have a clear view of this house, so that they can see when the lights get dimmer or brighter, or even when a car leaves the property? Were there any men who were regular joggers or dog walkers in the neighborhood, such that the family dogs would "know" them and not bark?

Patty G
10-09-2011, 11:40 AM
I would assume that LE also took DNA and fingerprint samples from the parents and perhaps the siblings.

MoonFlwr
10-09-2011, 11:41 AM
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-bradleys-family-talks-about-past-20111008,0,1316565.story

Thank you, thank you, thank you, saba! :seeya:

Sorry about my delayed response!

BeanE
10-09-2011, 11:41 AM
So the person in the pic is the teen that had the DNA taken? How do we know that?

TIA


How? Where? Please point me to that?



NimaKCTV5 (http://yfrog.com/user/NimaKCTV5/profile) 2 hours 14 mins ago Twitter (http://twitter.com/)
Detectives from @kcpolice (http://yfrog.com/user/kcpolice/profile) at this home in #LisaIrwin (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23LisaIrwin) neighborhood for the second time. Updates on #KCTV5 (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23KCTV5) News at 6 & 10 yfrog.com/nv3btaj (http://yfrog.com/nv3btaj)--


**the above is the teen neighbor’s house.



-----

When this came out yesterday, our verified local In Da Middle verified that this is the teen's house.

Not following you, Shelby1. What about that tells us that the person in the pic is the DNA teen?

STEADFAST
10-09-2011, 11:42 AM
7:30 pm by mom and brothers. That is when she was put to bed.

10:30 pm mom checked on baby Lisa before she went to bed. Closed her bedroom door following and went to bed with her six year old son, the new stray kitten while the 8 year old son of Jeremy went to bed in the other bedroom. (his and six year old's bedroom.Albeit, as stated above six year old went with mom.)

Thanks for responding :)

But I was asking whether we have a time when Lisa was last seen by someone outside of the family. At this point, when the mother has not been cleared and has reportedly failed a polygraph, I'm not comfortable with accepting her timeline of events.

tlcya
10-09-2011, 11:42 AM
Thank you so much momtective and gardenlady for those links. Am watching the video of Capt. Young right now and I haven't gotten to anything regarding the teen yet but I find the fact that LE and the parents seem to be working more closely again to be reason enough for celebration. Factoring the teen completely out of the equation, to me - THIS is the story. Parents and LE moving back towards one another to work for baby Lisa's safe return!

JerricaBenton
10-09-2011, 11:42 AM
I hate to even say this-but I have been trying to figure out why this weight issue is bothering me. It seems so basic to know your childs weight and to make sure it is accurate on a missing flyer.
Didn't we see that on the missing flyers for Caylee Anthony? I think her weight was overstated by quite a bit-am I remembering that correctly?

Could be something-could be nothing.

I have no idea what any of children weigh. They are 3, 9 and 11. Im in the UK though, so maybe its different here. I would struggle to even give an estimate of what they weigh.

annalia
10-09-2011, 11:43 AM
Nothing to support it except that he is the only person involved in the case to have been mentioned as having a DNA sample taken, or even questioned (besides the parents).

I'm not really scared of teens, males, or male teens, either, seeing as how I have a house full of males, a teen male son, and lots of teen males hanging around my house pretty much every weekend with my son. :twocents:

Of course he was questioned, he was allegedly at the home earlier, I'd be more upset of LE didn't question him thoroughly, to be sure that he can be ruled in or out.

We don't really know if they took DNA from anyone else. Who else would they be getting DNA from, who else was reportedly at the house earlier other than family?

JBean
10-09-2011, 11:44 AM
I have no idea what any of children weigh. They are 3, 9 and 11. Im in the UK though, so maybe its different here. I would struggle to even give an estimate of what they weigh.
Fair enough. How did you know how much medication to give them when they were months old? In my experience, here in the US, many parents track their child's development by height and weight when they are under a year. But as you point out, it does not necessarily mean everyone does. It probably is just a result of trying to get a missing poster out ASAP. Thanks JB.

Gardenlady
10-09-2011, 11:44 AM
Thank you so much momtective and gardenlady for those links. Am watching the video of Capt. Young right now and I haven't gotten to anything regarding the teen yet but I find the fact that LE and the parents seem to be working more closely again to be reason enough for celebration. Factoring the teen completely out of the equation, to me - THIS is the story. Parents and LE moving back towards one another to work for baby Lisa's safe return!

Huge development, them being back in communication/cooperation. I really think it was a misunderstanding due to stress on the part of the parents, as well as LE, and possibly LE using a sort of divide and conquer interrogation strategy that backfired.

Hope to hear they are talking more today, and that some leads are generated!

Shelby1
10-09-2011, 11:45 AM
Ah okay. Please point me to where our verified local stated that the kid in the video and picture is the DNA kid? I missed that.


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO MO - Amber Alert: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 October 2011 #8

Shelby1
10-09-2011, 11:45 AM
Not following you, Shelby1. What about that tells us that the person in the pic is the DNA teen?



Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO MO - Amber Alert: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 October 2011 #8


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO MO - Amber Alert: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 October 2011 #8

Tuffy
10-09-2011, 11:47 AM
My 15 year old step son had to have id last summer when he flew in.

:shrug:

My kids have flown a lot, a different ages. Depending on the airport, and the TSA agents checking, the rules seemed to change constantly. Sometimes they asked questions, sometimes they waved us through "no questions asked."

JerricaBenton
10-09-2011, 11:47 AM
Fair enough. How did you know how much medication to give them when they were months old?

By the dosage on the bottle. Babies here do get weighed now & again, if there are concerns about weight issues.

Gardenlady
10-09-2011, 11:47 AM
Of course he was questioned, he was allegedly at the home earlier, I'd be more upset of LE didn't question him thoroughly, to be sure that he can be ruled in or out.

We don't really know if they took DNA from anyone else. Who else would they be getting DNA from, who else was reportedly at the house earlier other than family?

I don't know. I'd guess grandparents, visitors to the home, etc. But since we can only go by what is reported in MSM here, and this teen is the only person mentioned to have had a DNA sample taken, and the only person mentioned to have been questioned besides parents, that, to me, makes it of significance. If MSM mentions someone else, I'll find that significant too.

alwayslooking
10-09-2011, 11:47 AM
Nothing to support it except that he is the only person involved in the case to have been mentioned as having a DNA sample taken, or even questioned (besides the parents).

I'm not really scared of teens, males, or male teens, either, seeing as how I have a house full of males, a teen male son, and lots of teen males hanging around my house pretty much every weekend with my son. :twocents:

I have also raised two sons, maybe from being in LE or from my background of being a victim of childmolestation, my son's were never allowed to babysit! They are grown men and will not watch each others small children, they do not change diaper's on any kids but their own! Not because we ever thought they would hurt any child, but so noone could ever accuse them of anything! They could not be in this postion!

yllek
10-09-2011, 11:48 AM
Something posted yesterday stuck in my head overnight and I woke up thinking about it. They said that Lisa was frequently seen sitting out front with the baby and would wave to neighbors.

Now if this is true, and someone reported seeing the baby one block over at 2:30 a.m. with a man going into a house, I would not be surprised if someone has been watching for an opportunity.

Given the news in another case, about Steve Powell spying on his neighbors with a telephoto camera, I would be asking, which houses on the street one block over have a clear view of this house, so that they can see when the lights get dimmer or brighter, or even when a car leaves the property? Were there any men who were regular joggers or dog walkers in the neighborhood, such that the family dogs would "know" them and not bark?

I agree. This is why it doesn't concern me that the parents were able to make a list of 9 - 12 people for LE. According to our verified local, the family was out in the yard a lot. This is a neighborhood with kids, teens, dogs - could be some people going by the house and casually observing or interacting with the family regularly. Anyone that stopped and talked about the kids, the house, or took a special interest, should be on the list imo. If it were me, I'd err on the side of caution and include anyone like that and risk hurting someone's feelings, rather than omit them and risk having been deceived by their friendliness when my child is missing.

tlcya
10-09-2011, 11:49 AM
Per Capt Young in the video in response to whether parents have a lawyer

You would need to ask them I don't know that

and regarding whether communication has been by phone or face to face.

We are all at the table they are sitting down talking with us.

In regards to cel phones and whether any have been recovered

not that I am aware of

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-steve-young-kcpd-lisa-irwin-update-20111008,0,6871031.story

IAM
10-09-2011, 11:49 AM
Ok, I am new here and this is just a collection of my thoughts. I hope I am not out of line with them. First I wam curious if baby Lisa slept with her Barney and her glow worm, why does DB have the Barney with her in each interview and why is the glow worm in the basket of toys I saw in the picture of Lisa's room? Shouldn't the investigators have them to test for any clues?
And now for some thoughts on this case:
I think everything falls more easily in place if you don't rule the father out as knowing/being a party to or perhaps doing something alone.
This would answer alot of questions about the lights being on, dog not barking,how baby Lisa could have been taken away in the early morning hours.
I just can't get over his demeanor. He shows no emotion. He stares down or through whoever he is talking to. He looks at his wife/gf in a very odd way
when she is breaking down sobbing. He doesn't console her at all. I have thought that this could perhaps be a sign of mistrust in her or maybe the LE
has told him something they know like they did with Kyron's dad, but why no emotion? I have a hard time saying the mother is faking her tears. She
would be the best actress ever, because her anguish truly shows. But, could this be anguish over an accident that she cannot reverse and fear of loosing
her other children and her life as she knows. I would like to know if Lisa's mom had a car at her disposal. I would also like to know if the father chose to work
that night and if this was a permanent shift or a one time thing. The baby being put to bed in shorts would not bother me except that the mother said she changed
her diaper and gave her a bottle and put her in clean clothes. Now I can see where you might not want to wake a sleeping baby to put her in PJ's, but if she changed
her and feed her, she was awake. Why not put her pajamas on? Also, why sleep with a 6 year old and a kitten when you have a sick baby that needs you more. Why put her
in bed fully dressed and behind closed doors? And the phones all being in same place and all gone with the baby is just too much for me to swallow. Just my thoughts. I hope
they find baby Lisa safe and sound.

4BB
10-09-2011, 11:50 AM
<modsnip>We are all brainstorming here.

no one has been named with names, not the adults on the lists made by the parents, not the teenager who may or may nor even be a minor.

I believe, if I felt that police were devoting too much effort in trying to wrongly accuse me of a crime, and they weren't devoting enough effort in finding my daughter otherwise...I would certainly remove myself from that equation. Im not answering your questions as I have nothing else to tell, no go look somewhere else please and HURRY.

annalia
10-09-2011, 11:50 AM
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO MO - Amber Alert: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 October 2011 #8 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7205323&postcount=742)


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO MO - Amber Alert: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 October 2011 #8 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7205326&postcount=744)

Aren't those posts confirming that that is the house, not that the boy sitting on the step is the boy in question? :waitasec:

Cher352
10-09-2011, 11:51 AM
I remember there being a video posted that showed the same group as in the photo. The threads are moving so fast I probably couldn't find it, but if it's from the same time which it looked like it was, the video didn't show that it was confontational or heated, a few of them were laughing in it and seemed relaxed.

Here is a video showing close-ups not sure if that is the one you are talking about, starts at about the 2:15 mark.

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-steve-young-kcpd-lisa-irwin-update-20111008,0,6871031.story

Lavanda Dolce
10-09-2011, 11:52 AM
The fact that the missing flyer says she weighs 30 lbs is a bit disturbing to me. IMO, there is no way that baby girl weighs 30 pounds. JMHO of course.

That is what the NCMEC has on their poster. Not too mention they have it wrong. They have she was last seen at 4am and that she had purple PANTS on. (sigh)

Kimster
10-09-2011, 11:52 AM
Hello IAM! Welcome to Websleuths! And thank you for your thoughts on this case!

:welcome: :wagon:

Just K
10-09-2011, 11:52 AM
Ah okay. I missed that. Wow. Poor kid if he has nothing to do with what happened to Lisa.

The local/WS member was very careful not to say that the person on the steps is the teen in question. The member only verified that the house in the picture had been of some unmentioned type of interest to the WS member. The member also stated the location and proximity of that house but was very careful about mentioning specific people at the house. Only said it was not abandoned and that there were "issues" at that house.

dovebar
10-09-2011, 11:52 AM
I agree that I find the father more disturbing in his behavior than the mother, for all the reasons listed above. Maybe it's his personality, maybe he doesn't know what to do or doesn't believe her. But in all photos and interviews, I've found her more convincing than him.

momtective
10-09-2011, 11:54 AM
Aren't those posts confirming that that is the house, not that the boy sitting on the step is the boy in question? :waitasec:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO MO - Amber Alert: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 October 2011 #8

Shelby1
10-09-2011, 11:54 AM
Aren't those posts confirming that that is the house, not that the boy sitting on the step is the boy in question? :waitasec:


I thought that was the question? The local verified that's the house that the teen in question lives.

tlcya
10-09-2011, 11:54 AM
Welcome Iam :) Good first post. Thanks for joining us. Looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts.

keeponsearching
10-09-2011, 11:54 AM
Has it been mention if they used baby monitors?

Chris_Texas
10-09-2011, 11:54 AM
Nothing to support it except that he is the only person involved in the case to have been mentioned as having a DNA sample taken, or even questioned (besides the parents).

I'm not really scared of teens, males, or male teens, either, seeing as how I have a house full of males, a teen male son, and lots of teen males hanging around my house pretty much every weekend with my son. :twocents:

If I understand the information we have available everyone the parents listed as possible suspects have been questioned and theoretically cleared (for now, obviously). We know this kid had DNA drawn, but this doesn't mean anything in terms of guilt or even suspicion of guilt -- the crime scene guys would want his DNA to help them identify samples. They likely secured DNA from everyone who has visited the home and was willing to provide a sample. Right now they are looking for DNA that they cannot identify.

Consider what we (think we) know. Do you really believe this kid walked in the unlocked front door of the home (how did he know it was unlocked?), turned on the lights (because why would he want to be sneaky right?), grabbed a few cellphones and maybe make a call on one (probably updating his twitter account: "lulz breaking into the neighbors house now lulz!"), maybe paused to grab some milk (the jerk probably drank it straight from the bottle!), then for no particular reason he decides to kidnap and murder a kid (if the teen did it the infant is dead, right?). Does this scenario make even the slightest bit of sense?

To me it does not. To me it sounds ridiculous. Your mileage may vary.

SyraKelly
10-09-2011, 11:54 AM
Good Morning Peeps..I am hoping for a good day and Lisa comes home!
I have been thinking about the father and what he thought and saw when he got home that night.
you all know,being women-we are very emotional,esp-when it comes to our children..now I don't know if the mother had anything to do with this..but I am going to put this out there.IF and that is a big IF the mother did something to Lisa whether it was accidentally or on purpose-she would be hysterical and crying for probably hrs-her eyes would probably be red and swollen from all the crying and her mind would be racing..men can tell when women have been crying..my question is this-Did the father notice his wife's face when he came in and said Lisa is missing. Some of the pics we have seen of them together show they are close to one other,but some show him not real emotional towards her..I don't how to post real well what I am trying to say..but does anyone understand what I am trying to say?

Ginny
10-09-2011, 11:55 AM
Fair enough. How did you know how much medication to give them when they were months old? In my experience, here in the US, many parents track their child's development by height and weight when they are under a year. But as you point out, it does not necessarily mean everyone does. It probably is just a result of trying to get a missing poster out ASAP. Thanks JB.

Hi everyone! I haven't posted anything since the Casey Anthony case was new. Since then, I've been blessed with two beautiful daughters. My pediatrician gives dosage charts that is based on the child's weight.

Boodles
10-09-2011, 11:57 AM
I haven't seen Irwin's and Bradley's ages published. Does anyone know their ages?

annalia
10-09-2011, 11:57 AM
Here is a video showing close-ups not sure if that is the one you are talking about, starts at about the 2:15 mark.

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-steve-young-kcpd-lisa-irwin-update-20111008,0,6871031.story

That's it, thank you!

It does look like the still came from that video. It doesn't look to me that it was heated or confrontational.

JMHO

Chris_Texas
10-09-2011, 11:57 AM
Something posted yesterday stuck in my head overnight and I woke up thinking about it. They said that Lisa was frequently seen sitting out front with the baby and would wave to neighbors.

Now if this is true, and someone reported seeing the baby one block over at 2:30 a.m. with a man going into a house, I would not be surprised if someone has been watching for an opportunity.

Given the news in another case, about Steve Powell spying on his neighbors with a telephoto camera, I would be asking, which houses on the street one block over have a clear view of this house, so that they can see when the lights get dimmer or brighter, or even when a car leaves the property? Were there any men who were regular joggers or dog walkers in the neighborhood, such that the family dogs would "know" them and not bark?

If someone saw this they also saw the house. LE would have already checked up on it.

Lavanda Dolce
10-09-2011, 11:57 AM
The parents seem to be saying more about the events around the "kidnapping" than giving pertinent details like those you have mentioned.

That is very important!

We have all been following this case yet none of us knows for sure if little Lisa could she even:
Walk
Talk

We don't know:
What her favorite toy is.
Was she a light sleeper?
Did she cry a lot?
What was her favorite food.
Did she use a sippy cup, yet?
Did she like animals or was she afraid of them?

Here is what we know from the mother/dad and the missing report.
Age
Weight
skin color
hair and eye color
she was a happy baby
she would go to anyone
she had a birthmark on her thigh...BUT WHICH THIGH...we don't know.
she had a bug bite over her eye

What else have the parents/family said that might identify Lisa?

Favorite toy was Barney which mom was holding in an interview. Went to bed with a bottle...so not sure if both sippy cup in daytime and bottle at night. But why would that be important? Birthmark on right thigh.

mrye4709
10-09-2011, 11:58 AM
I see alot of discussion of Lisa's weight and height and want to clarify why it concerns me. I'm not so concerned that the parents may not know the exact numbers, just what if that is wrong and someone sees Lisa and thinks, no that can't be her, she is bigger than that. Makes me want to weigh and measure my grandkids every time I see them!

tlcya
10-09-2011, 11:58 AM
Welcome back to posting Ginny and congratulations on your daughters :)

annalia
10-09-2011, 11:58 AM
I thought that was the question? The local verified that's the house that the teen in question lives.

I think the question was about the identity of the person sitting on the step as being the teen in question, but I wll go back and check.

BeanE
10-09-2011, 11:59 AM
Ah okay. Please point me to where our verified local stated that the kid in the video and picture is the DNA kid? I missed that.


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO MO - Amber Alert: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 October 2011 #8 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7205323&postcount=742)


YES!!!!! that is exactly the house I was inquiring about if anybody had an image of. And yes I have my reasons and this is the teen that immediately that came to mind!!!! Yes it is a 'he' and yes lets just say this family has 'issues'. FYI house is on the other side of the street from them on the corner of lister and chelsea.

There are 4 or 5 people in that *very* blurred pic, which is not the pic of the person sitting on the steps, so forgive me, but I'm still not getting it.

What is telling you that the person on the steps in the other pic is the DNA teen?

Sorry I'm so dense. I really wish somebody would just say it outright, because if I'm supposed to be picking up clues, my old lady's brain is just not getting it.

wfgodot
10-09-2011, 11:59 AM
Welcome back to posting Ginny and congratulations on your daughters :)
Yes, I second that motion, welcome back to posting, Ginny!

vlpate
10-09-2011, 12:00 PM
Someone posted a link last night to a news update which revealed DB is still married. There was supposed to be an update at 10 revealing DB's checkered past - I've spent an hour trying to find the first news update in order to watch the second news update.....HELP please....anyone remember this and where I might find the first one? Thanks

BeanE
10-09-2011, 12:00 PM
Not following you, Shelby1. What about that tells us that the person in the pic is the DNA teen?


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO MO - Amber Alert: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 October 2011 #8 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7205323&postcount=742)


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO MO - Amber Alert: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 October 2011 #8 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7205326&postcount=744)

Thanks. I get the connection from the local saying that's the DNA teen's house.

What I'm not getting is how we know that the person sitting on the steps is the DNA teen.

TIA

JBean
10-09-2011, 12:00 PM
By the dosage on the bottle. Babies here do get weighed now & again, if there are concerns about weight issues.
Ok that is the difference. Here, the dosages for infants are often determined by weight (and age).

cluciano63
10-09-2011, 12:00 PM
It was reported several days ago that neither parent has any "serious criminal
record." Do we know what types of crimes they have on their records?

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44798732/ns/today-today_people/t/parents-missing-baby-well-do-anything-get-her/

MoonFlwr
10-09-2011, 12:01 PM
Good Morning Peeps..I am hoping for a good day and Lisa comes home!
I have been thinking about the father and what he thought and saw when he got home that night.
you all know,being women-we are very emotional,esp-when it comes to our children..now I don't know if the mother had anything to do with this..but I am going to put this out there.IF and that is a big IF the mother did something to Lisa whether it was accidentally or on purpose-she would be hysterical and crying for probably hrs-her eyes would probably be red and swollen from all the crying and her mind would be racing..men can tell when women have been crying..my question is this-Did the father notice his wife's face when he came in and said Lisa is missing. Some of the pics we have seen of them together show they are close to one other,but some show him not real emotional towards her..I don't how to post real well what I am trying to say..but does anyone understand what I am trying to say?


I think that some people, when they go out in public, have a steely face which they put on, as a form of protection. He isn't just out in public he is out on television. He may just have decided to steel himself a certain way, in order to keep a barrier up and not allow people in, to speculate.

Boodles
10-09-2011, 12:01 PM
I agree that I find the father more disturbing in his behavior than the mother, for all the reasons listed above. Maybe it's his personality, maybe he doesn't know what to do or doesn't believe her. But in all photos and interviews, I've found her more convincing than him.

Interesting. I feel the exact opposite. I interpret him to be an introvert and probably not comfortable being in the spotlight. She, on the other hand, seems to be a "talker," extroverted, and something feels like she doesn't mind being the center of attention. I find her tears and comments to be disingenuous.

I truly hope the baby has been abducted and is safe somewhere. But I can't feel it no matter how much I try to convince myself. She creeps me out.

And I speculate (no reason, just pure speculation) that LE has a good grip on what they believe happened, and they are playing the "gathering up the evidence" game at this point. I hope I am wrong.

chasing.halos
10-09-2011, 12:01 PM
So, a breakdown...
A teen neighbor has been questioned per MSM
A teen neighbor has had DNA samples taken per MSM

Per our verified local:
A teen neighbor is pictured in MSM. Emphasis on A. We don't know IF this teen neighbor pictured is THE neighbor.

Am I right here? If so, boy we have gotta be careful and probably not talk about that picture of a minor because we don't know if that is THE teen.

SuziQ
10-09-2011, 12:02 PM
There are 4 or 5 people in that *very* blurred pic, which is not the pic of the person sitting on the steps, so forgive me, but I'm still not getting it.

What is telling you that the person on the steps in the other pic is the DNA teen?

Sorry I'm so dense. I really wish somebody would just say it outright, because if I'm supposed to be picking up clues, my old lady's brain is just not getting it.

Well there is only one "HE" in that picture and the local verified that the teen is a he. I don't see the pic as very blurred.

Shelby1
10-09-2011, 12:03 PM
There are 4 or 5 people in that *very* blurred pic, which is not the pic of the person sitting on the steps, so forgive me, but I'm still not getting it.

What is telling you that the person on the steps in the other pic is the DNA teen?

Sorry I'm so dense. I really wish somebody would just say it outright, because if I'm supposed to be picking up clues, my old lady's brain is just not getting it.


I thought your question was about which house it was. I'm verifying that the verified local (lol) has verified that's the house.

Our local can verify if that's the teen. Not sure about that.

saba
10-09-2011, 12:03 PM
Someone posted a link last night to a news update which revealed DB is still married. There was supposed to be an update at 10 revealing DB's checkered past - I've spent an hour trying to find the first news update in order to watch the second news update.....HELP please....anyone remember this and where I might find the first one? Thanks

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-bradleys-family-talks-about-past-20111008,0,1316565.story

annalia
10-09-2011, 12:03 PM
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO MO - Amber Alert: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 October 2011 #8 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7205323&postcount=742)

Again, to me that appears to be confirmation that it is the house in question, not confirmation that the person sitting on the step is the teen in question. I believe this was the poster's original question, where is the confirmation that it is the same teen who is sitting on the step.

JMHO

liz b.
10-09-2011, 12:03 PM
7:30 pm by mom and brothers. That is when she was put to bed.

10:30 pm mom checked on baby Lisa before she went to bed. Closed her bedroom door following and went to bed with her six year old son, the new stray kitten while the 8 year old son of Jeremy went to bed in the other bedroom. (his and six year old's bedroom.Albeit, as stated above six year old went with mom.)

Lavanda,
Do you have a link which states that the 6 year old went to bed when Deb did ? TIA I've not seen it mentioned when either boy went to bed ? TY

BeanE
10-09-2011, 12:03 PM
The local/WS member was very careful not to say that the person on the steps is the teen in question. The member only verified that the house in the picture had been of some unmentioned type of interest to the WS member. The member also stated the location and proximity of that house but was very careful about mentioning specific people at the house. Only said it was not abandoned and that there were "issues" at that house.

Thanks, Just K.

Gardenlady
10-09-2011, 12:04 PM
If I understand the information we have available everyone the parents listed as possible suspects have been questioned and theoretically cleared (for now, obviously). We know this kid had DNA drawn, but this doesn't mean anything in terms of guilt or even suspicion of guilt -- the crime scene guys would want his DNA to help them identify samples. They likely secured DNA from everyone who has visited the home and was willing to provide a sample. Right now they are looking for DNA that they cannot identify.

Consider what we (think we) know. Do you really believe this kid walked in the unlocked front door of the home (how did he know it was unlocked?), turned on the lights (because why would he want to be sneaky right?), grabbed a few cellphones and maybe make a call on one (probably updating his twitter account: "lulz breaking into the neighbors house now lulz!"), maybe paused to grab some milk (the jerk probably drank it straight from the bottle!), then for no particular reason he decides to kidnap and murder a kid (if the teen did it the infant is dead, right?). Does this scenario make even the slightest bit of sense?

To me it does not. To me it sounds ridiculous. Your mileage may vary.

Hey Chris, likely they have talked to others, but none have been mentioned in MSM. Same with taking DNA samples. As I said before, since what we can go on here is what is reported in MSM, that's what I'm going on. If they mention someone else specifically, I'll probably have an opinion on that too, when it happens.

Right now, given the people we know who are have been interviewed (parents and the teen), had DNA samples taken (the teen), I think the teen fits better. I see no motive for mom or dad, nor do I get a guilty vibe from either of them. I can think of several scenarios for the unnamed (and, gender unknown - so far I thi you are the only one who has assigned him a gender) teen, and yes, I see him or her fitting with what we know (familiar with house, comings/goings of parents, familiar to baby, familiar to the dog that didn't bark).

JBean
10-09-2011, 12:05 PM
Someone posted a link last night to a news update which revealed DB is still married. There was supposed to be an update at 10 revealing DB's checkered past - I've spent an hour trying to find the first news update in order to watch the second news update.....HELP please....anyone remember this and where I might find the first one? Thanks
if you do a search on chequered and checkered in the past threads you will find just about everything we know--and more LOL!

Patty G
10-09-2011, 12:05 PM
Has it been mention if they used baby monitors?

According to the mother when she was on Judge Jeannie's show last night, the baby monitor was on in Lisa's room.

BeanE
10-09-2011, 12:06 PM
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO MO - Amber Alert: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 October 2011 #8 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7205323&postcount=742)

That's not the picture of the person on the steps. That's a completely different - and VERY blurred picture. There are 4 or 5 people in that picture, all extremely blurred.

I'm not getting the connection. Would appreciate if someone would tell me in terms a 6 year old would understand, because it's just not sinking in to my old brain. :)

alwayslooking
10-09-2011, 12:06 PM
Someone posted a link last night to a news update which revealed DB is still married. There was supposed to be an update at 10 revealing DB's checkered past - I've spent an hour trying to find the first news update in order to watch the second news update.....HELP please....anyone remember this and where I might find the first one? Thanks

http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-bradleys-family-talks-about-past-20111008,0,1316565.story

It was carp, just trying to get viewer's!

SyraKelly
10-09-2011, 12:06 PM
I think that some people, when they go out in public, have a steely face which they put on, as a form of protection. He isn't just out in public he is out on television. He may just have decided to steel himself a certain way, in order to keep a barrier up and not allow people in, to speculate.

yes.I understand what your saying,maybe what I am trying to say is..is the reason he is somewhat unemotional towards her-is B/C he saw her face or behavior that night and something did not sit well with him and he is trying hard to believe she had nothing to do with it.but his heart just won't let him forget how he saw her that night...KWIM

jadejazzkayla
10-09-2011, 12:06 PM
The only problem I have with it being the teen is that there has been no reporting of the teen being taken to the PD and questioned. With all the reporters milling around I would expect one of them to mention it, if it was a fact.

If they are truly looking at the teen why haven't they done that? We did hear of an hour long interview in a neighbors home.

If in fact the police asked the teen if they could take him to the police station to be questioned - he may have declined.

cluciano63
10-09-2011, 12:06 PM
Personally I think the media ran with the story about the teen because it is so eye-catching...he/she may be one of many people who gave DNA, but look at how much excitement was caused by the fact that a "teen" was among them...JMO.

tlcya
10-09-2011, 12:08 PM
I think, since it is still being debated and it is obviously unclear if the pictured teen is the DNA sampled teen, I will avoid the topic of the teen or the verified house altogether as topic in my posts. I will keep any posts about possible involvement by a neighbor/teen general and not cite the video footage or stills therefrom as I speculate on the possibility of a neighbor/teen's involvement.

For me, that would seem to be the safest tact while remaining within TOS.

wfgodot
10-09-2011, 12:09 PM
I think, since it is still being debated and it is obviously unclear if the pictured teen is the DNA sampled teen, I will avoid the topic of the teen or the verified house altogether as topic in my posts. I will keep any posts about possible involvement by a neighbor/teen general and not cite the video footage or stills therefrom as I speculate on the possibility of a neighbor/teen's involvement.

For me, that would seem to be the safest tact while remaining within TOS.
Amen, tlcox. I'll sign that pledge.

tlcya
10-09-2011, 12:11 PM
Just wanted to take a moment to offer a big shoutout to Shelby1 who has worked so tirelessly to be the keeper of our timeline. Thank you so much for all the hard work!

JBean
10-09-2011, 12:12 PM
Just wanted to take a moment to offer a big shoutout to Shelby1 who has worked so tirelessly to be the keeper of our timeline. Thank you so much for all the hard work!
I am going to move it up to the timeline forum so it is always available.
Lisa Irwin-Timeline - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

mentalsolstice
10-09-2011, 12:12 PM
I hate to even say this-but I have been trying to figure out why this weight issue is bothering me. It seems so basic to know your childs weight and to make sure it is accurate on a missing flyer.
Didn't we see that on the missing flyers for Caylee Anthony? I think her weight was overstated by quite a bit-am I remembering that correctly?

Could be something-could be nothing.

I think it could be an unfortunate typo that wasn't caught before it was printed. I'm not reading anything into it all.

BeanE
10-09-2011, 12:12 PM
Someone posted a link last night to a news update which revealed DB is still married. There was supposed to be an update at 10 revealing DB's checkered past - I've spent an hour trying to find the first news update in order to watch the second news update.....HELP please....anyone remember this and where I might find the first one? Thanks

I tried to find the update too, and couldn't. I also tried to find the checkers, and couldn't find a single one.

Gardenlady
10-09-2011, 12:12 PM
Just wanted to take a moment to offer a big shoutout to Shelby1 who has worked so tirelessly to be the keeper of our timeline. Thank you so much for all the hard work!

Was just going to post the same thing. Shelbys timeline has saved me soooo many hours of catch up! :blowkiss: thanks so much!! :blowkiss:

CHICANA
10-09-2011, 12:13 PM
If I understand the information we have available everyone the parents listed as possible suspects have been questioned and theoretically cleared (for now, obviously). We know this kid had DNA drawn, but this doesn't mean anything in terms of guilt or even suspicion of guilt -- the crime scene guys would want his DNA to help them identify samples. They likely secured DNA from everyone who has visited the home and was willing to provide a sample. Right now they are looking for DNA that they cannot identify.

Consider what we (think we) know. Do you really believe this kid walked in the unlocked front door of the home (how did he know it was unlocked?), turned on the lights (because why would he want to be sneaky right?), grabbed a few cellphones and maybe make a call on one (probably updating his twitter account: "lulz breaking into the neighbors house now lulz!"), maybe paused to grab some milk (the jerk probably drank it straight from the bottle!), then for no particular reason he decides to kidnap and murder a kid (if the teen did it the infant is dead, right?). Does this scenario make even the slightest bit of sense?

To me it does not. To me it sounds ridiculous. Your mileage may vary.

Could it be possible this teen had problems at home & they let him sleep on their couch at times ? Maybe even left the door unlocked for him ? This would explain the lights being on & the boldness of the crime. If mom had woke up he could have explained his presence. Maybe he was in the house for awhile & realized that nobody had woke up or knew he was there. Maybe this wasn't planned at all & he used the phone before deciding to take her. Lots of wild speculation here. Sorry

In da Middle
10-09-2011, 12:14 PM
Our verified local ID'd the house as the one the teen lives in.


I only verified this as the house where 'a teen' was questioned and it was a 'he'.

BeanE
10-09-2011, 12:15 PM
Well there is only one "HE" in that picture and the local verified that the teen is a he. I don't see the pic as very blurred.

hmmm... maybe I need new glasses (or even new eyes!) then because I can't even tell if there are 4 or 5 people in that picture. It is *very* blurred to me, and of the people I can see, I couldn't begin to tell you if they're male or female. I even enlarged the pic and applied some filters to it to try to clarify it.

tlcya
10-09-2011, 12:15 PM
Thank you In da Middle, for your clarification.

House is house of a male teen who was questioned.

I imagine many folks, particularly neighbors have been interviewed and questioned by LE (I sure would hope so anyway - SOP)

This teen neighbor angle could be something or nothing and my posts will carefully reflect that.
JMO

alwayslooking
10-09-2011, 12:16 PM
I only verified this as the house where 'a teen' was questioned and it was a 'he'.

Thank God you are back! :seeya:

Tuffy
10-09-2011, 12:17 PM
If in fact the police asked the teen if they could take him to the police station to be questioned - he may have declined.

So, I believe that if they had reasonable cause to believe the teen was involved in any way, they would have taken him/her into custody.

BeanE
10-09-2011, 12:18 PM
I thought your question was about which house it was. I'm verifying that the verified local (lol) has verified that's the house.

Our local can verify if that's the teen. Not sure about that.

My concern is the person on the steps being pointed to as the DNA teen, along with implications that the person on the steps was involved in a baby's kidnapping.

Perhaps our local will pop by and let us know if he/she is willing to point the finger at the person on the steps and say that's the DNA teen. I'm going to bet not, as in the local's post, it seemed to me that our local was trying to be careful not to point fingers at any person. I dunno though.

Thanks for your help, Shelby. :grouphug:

ETA: Posted this before I saw that In Da Middle had posted just above. Thank you to In Da Middle! The person on the steps is off the table as the DNA teen.

IAM
10-09-2011, 12:18 PM
I have not heard much about the teen recently, is there a link I can go to?

Two more thoughts: I find the timing and location of the dumpster fire and the timing of phone call from cell phone far too much of a coincidence. Possibly just a diversion or perhaps the perp thought that LE would connect it and cast off suspicion of them.

And, has LE asked the 6 year old if he ever sleeps in his mom's bed and who's idea it was. If this child was not yet asleep, or he woke up for some reason and they did not need him up possibly discovering something, having him sleep with her would be the solution. I think in the diagram of the house I saw that his room was right next to Lisa's.

1 more thought: it is puzzling to me that the dad was not requested to take a poly.

Shelby1
10-09-2011, 12:18 PM
I am going to move it up to the timeline forum so it is always available.
Lisa Irwin-Timeline - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150977)

Should I quit putting my updated ones down here and always put the updated ones up there?

momtective
10-09-2011, 12:19 PM
Thank God you are back! :seeya:

Indeed! :great:

Patty G
10-09-2011, 12:19 PM
It appears to me that the indiviudual sitting on the steps, is the same individual standing with the other people. Take notice of black shirt and jeans and this individual is rather tall.

raeann
10-09-2011, 12:20 PM
Garage is far from the home. Not attached. It is in the backyard and attached to garage is fence with dog.

Not that one....if you look at the pictures of the BACK of the house you will see the lower level ATTACHED garage. The large building behind is a workshop or extra garage but there is definitely a drive in attached garage on the back of the house clearly visible in the photos posted here.

Gardenlady
10-09-2011, 12:20 PM
I have not heard much about the teen recently, is there a link I can go to?

Two more thoughts: I find the timing and location of the dumpster fire and the timing of phone call from cell phone far too much of a coincidence. Possibly just a diversion or perhaps the perp thought that LE would connect it and cast off suspicion of them.

And, has LE asked the 6 year old if he ever sleeps in his mom's bed and who's idea it was. If this child was not yet asleep, or he woke up for some reason and they did not need him up possibly discovering something, having him sleep with her would be the solution. I think in the diagram of the house I saw that his room was right next to Lisa's.

1 more thought: it is puzzling to me that the dad was not requested to take a poly.

Link for the teen info (still in my clipboard lol):
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-teen-questioned-police-california-tip/t/story?id=14695496

curiousc
10-09-2011, 12:21 PM
My thinking is that whomever took Baby Lisa knew that the father would not be home that night and knew his hours of work. First time on night shifts? Seriously, the biggest chance that a stranger would abduct Lisa is if they watched the house for a few weeks to grasp the routines of the household.

To me that limits possibilities of who did this.

I stated a theory last night about perhaps DB being overwhelmed (dad gone for the first night) with three kids and one being sick. Babies who have a cold and a cough tend to wake up a lot in the night. Perhaps she was sleep deprived and snapped. Perhaps she has PND.

I am still on the fence about DB but what she's said and the dad has said about the circumstances that night just seem off.

Lavanda Dolce
10-09-2011, 12:21 PM
They need to change the "please drop her off at a church, fire station or police station and just walk away...no questions asked." If a kidnapper had second thoughts, not one of those places is a "safe place" to leave Baby Lisa because they all have video cameras. People are not dumb.

Better chance for them to walk in a mom/pop restaurant, gas station with outdoor bathroom, an older church or building in a rural area that may not have a video camera with baby carrier and leave baby in a locked bathroom and carry baby carrier out the door as if a baby still in it. Or for that matter leave the baby at a campground bathroom...I"ve never seen video cameras at any of those. Then make call to restaurant (or wherever they left baby) from a throw away phone to tell them where baby is.

Patty G
10-09-2011, 12:22 PM
Not that one....if you look at the pictures of the BACK of the house you will see the lower level ATTACHED garage. The large building behind is a workshop or extra garage but there is definitely a drive in attached garage on the back of the house clearly visible in the photos posted here.

Would you kindly post the link that shows the photo of the garage. Thanks.

norest4thewicked
10-09-2011, 12:23 PM
Good morning all ....I see that sadly there is nothing new...:(

jadejazzkayla
10-09-2011, 12:23 PM
So, I believe that if they had reasonable cause to believe the teen was involved in any way, they would have taken him/her into custody.

that is a given and the same goes for the parents - If LE has any probable cause, it is not enough to arrest anyone.

In da Middle
10-09-2011, 12:24 PM
Originally Posted by BeanE http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
So the person in the pic is the teen that had the DNA taken? How do we know that?

TIA



It's been vetted locally.

I never stated that is where the DNA came from because I don't know that it was, only that they were questioning 'a teen' from that house and it fit into my theory that it was not random. I clearly stated that I was not saying anything more about 'this teen' other than there are some known 'issues' and by proximity and personal relationship to the family only this family should be questioned more.

yllek
10-09-2011, 12:25 PM
When it was first reported that a teen neighbor was being questioned, it was stated that the teen was believed to have been in the house earlier in the day. Could be a million reasons for that. Our verified local says it's a "he", don't know if LE or press ever mentioned the sex? In any case, if the teen was in the house that day; the teen must be questioned and DNA taken as a matter of routine imo. Until noted otherwise, I'm assuming anyone in that house that day is a potential information source when there are gaps in the time line. Never hurts to keep asking questions hoping some helpful detail may be remembered. Waiting for more info to see if there's anything more to the story with the teen. MOO.

According to the report, investigators questioned and took DNA samples from a teenage neighbor whom they believe was in the Irwin home earlier in the day that Lisa disappeared.

Snipped from: http://www.kmbc.com/news/29428139/detail.html#ixzz1aImD4k3T

P.s. What does concern me is that investigators "believe" the teen may have been in the house that day. Wouldn't the parents and the teen be able to confirm or deny, or is that part of the gap in the time line (or is there some reason to believe the teen was in the house and the parents did not know or will not say?). Or, could just be vague wording in the reporting. Waiting...

matou
10-09-2011, 12:25 PM
Another weird thought: Why would anyone who is abducting a child light almost all the lights in the house? Wouldn't this increase the chances of anyone being able to see inside of the house? The husband could have come home at any point, assuming the abductor knew the people who lived there and their routine. What if the husband was going out for a drink that night or meeting friends? Either the person who did this knew the husband was at work and when he would be home or it's totally random and the abductor did all sorts of crazy things that would normally wake someone up (my opinion) or this is an inside job. Tampering with a window would make noise, and the window is facing the street. Was the porch light on too? I heard that the husband stated that there was more than one window open when he got home. Anyone remember that?

BeanE
10-09-2011, 12:26 PM
I only verified this as the house where 'a teen' was questioned and it was a 'he'.

Thanks, Middle.

SuziQ
10-09-2011, 12:27 PM
I only verified this as the house where 'a teen' was questioned and it was a 'he'.

Thank you for clarifying. I hate to put words in other peoples mouths.

momtective
10-09-2011, 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by BeanE http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7207450#post7207450)
So the person in the pic is the teen that had the DNA taken? How do we know that?

TIA




I never stated that is where the DNA came from because I don't know that it was, only that they were questioning 'a teen' from that house and it fit into my theory that it was not random. I clearly stated that I was not saying anything more about 'this teen' other than there are some known 'issues' and by proximity and personal relationship to the family only this family should be questioned more.

I don't recall anyone stating that the teen on the porch was the teen that was DNA tested. Although this is the only teen in the neighborhood that MSM has directed their camera's at.
I have no idea who was DNA tested and who wasn't.

tlcya
10-09-2011, 12:27 PM
So, I believe that if they had reasonable cause to believe the teen was involved in any way, they would have taken him/her into custody.

You mean like they've taken the parents into custody, the ones many speculate LE believe were somehow involved?

Sorry, your post is simply my jumping off point and prompting this thought and is not aimed at you or anyone specific.

We have all done a decent job of keeping a cool head in this case although occasionally some of us, myself included, have had our moments of frustration.

In a nutshell, the thought I am trying to express is that while LE may question many, including the parents, associates, neighbors, the mail man, and whoever. No person has been named a suspect or even a POI.

As this day progresses I hope that we can all keep our wits about us in our great concern over baby Lisa.

We are all going to have theories, ideas and things that make us go hmmmmmm . . . and that is the beauty of this site.

I learn the most from those with whom I disagree sometimes.

Gardenlady
10-09-2011, 12:28 PM
Time for Gardenlady to get some work done in the garden while the weather is so beautiful!

Hoping to come back and see good news for baby Lisa!

vlpate
10-09-2011, 12:28 PM
I haven't seen Irwin's and Bradley's ages published. Does anyone know their ages?

She's 25 and he's 27, I believe.

saba
10-09-2011, 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by BeanE http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7207450#post7207450)
So the person in the pic is the teen that had the DNA taken? How do we know that?

TIA




I never stated that is where the DNA came from because I don't know that it was, only that they were questioning 'a teen' from that house and it fit into my theory that it was not random. I clearly stated that I was not saying anything more about 'this teen' other than there are some known 'issues' and by proximity and personal relationship to the family only this family should be questioned more.

So now I'm lost. Did you say that this is the house of the teen who was in the Irwin's house the day Lisa vanished? If not, what personal relationship with the family are you referring to? tia

IAM
10-09-2011, 12:30 PM
I hope they find the teen is not involved. I canot think of but one motive a male teen would steal a baby girl :(

BeanE
10-09-2011, 12:30 PM
It appears to me that the indiviudual sitting on the steps, is the same individual standing with the other people. Take notice of black shirt and jeans and this individual is rather tall.

Thanks. I'm unable to see that blurred picture clearly.

Nevertheless, our verified local has now posted again to clarify that he/she has not identified the person on the steps as the DNA teen, so it's all straight in my head now!

Just K
10-09-2011, 12:31 PM
Favorite toy was Barney which mom was holding in an interview. Went to bed with a bottle...so not sure if both sippy cup in daytime and bottle at night. But why would that be important? Birthmark on right thigh.
Thanks, I missed the detail on birthmark location.

BUT:
Has anyone told MSM, LE etc if Barney was the favorite toy or is that an assumption based on the fact that the mother has been seen holding it in interviews.

The only importance about a sippy cup would be that it would show the baby's level of development/coordination.

That brings to mind yet another question.

Was a baby bottle found in the crib? Or if Mom removed the bottled at the 10:30 PM peek to check on baby, did she remove the bottle from the crib and was it recovered by LE, later?


So many details...no wonder it took 11 hours to go over the details with the parents. But we only know that it was 11 hours because the mother said that was the case.

LE has said VERY LITTLE. If viewers go back and look at every Capt. Steve Young Interview. 90% of what we have heard, re: the details of LE inquiries and facts surrounding the home and people who have been interviewed, has come from the family not from LE.

Patty G
10-09-2011, 12:33 PM
Thanks. I'm unable to see that blurred picture clearly.

Nevertheless, our verified local has now posted again to clarify that he/she has not identified the person on the steps as the DNA teen, so it's all straight in my head now!

:great:

PlainJaneDoe
10-09-2011, 12:33 PM
I have a possibly dumb, possibly irrelevant question about the list of 9 or so people drawn up by JI. Why would a woman cheating on her husband kidnap a baby? Sorry, not trying to be dumb or snarky here, but I do not see how those 2 ideas are even related. I understood the other things, like a woman who has recently lost a child, but this one escapes me. Maybe it's because I am happily childfree, or because I've never cheated, I dunno...sometimes I think my tagline should be "expert in neuroscience, generally clueless otherwise." :rolleyes:

annalia
10-09-2011, 12:34 PM
If we heard later that the teen had been at the home and LE didn't thoroughly investigate him, we'd all be calling them out over it.

They need to do their job, that would include investigating anyone and everyone that had been in close proximity to Lisa or the home. That doesn't mean that everyone they're checking out is because they've been deemed a suspect.

JMHO

mrye4709
10-09-2011, 12:34 PM
I wonder if there are any videos of Lisa with sound to show what her voice sounds like, what she can say, how she cries. Sometimes these things can be very distinct, even the way she toddles or crawls may show some unique something. Hoping she is with someone who wants her and is taking care of her.

SyraKelly
10-09-2011, 12:34 PM
This is MOO-I think we should just leave the teen alone until we hear from LE that they are involved..I hate to see this teen's life ruined by a pic and maybe by LE trying to excluded them for the reason thier DNA being in the house! I am so glad that is not my teen..please understand I am not trying to be rude or snarky!

elepher50
10-09-2011, 12:34 PM
A post awhile back (this thread) indicated that mom had been on the computer that night and left the window open in the computer room. I may have missed this in MSM - anybody recall this being reported in MSM?

Do we know if any computers have been removed from the house for investigative purposes? This could be a good lead if mom was in contact with someone on the computer that night.

BeanE
10-09-2011, 12:35 PM
Originally Posted by BeanE http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7207450#post7207450)
So the person in the pic is the teen that had the DNA taken? How do we know that?

TIA




I never stated that is where the DNA came from because I don't know that it was, only that they were questioning 'a teen' from that house and it fit into my theory that it was not random. I clearly stated that I was not saying anything more about 'this teen' other than there are some known 'issues' and by proximity and personal relationship to the family only this family should be questioned more.

Thank you so much for clarifying this, Middle. :grouphug:

grandmaj
10-09-2011, 12:35 PM
I don't know the jury is still out for me. I think there is lots we don't know. I also don't recall there every being a hastily called Police Press Conference saying the teen wasn't cooperating like in the case of the parents. I still keep an open mind until more evidence is in.

bubblesdoe
10-09-2011, 12:35 PM
Been thinking about this last night and trying to put it all down in writing this morning. It is just MY OWN OPINION of what I think might have happened based on the facts we know and my own maternal instinct and how I would react (well except that I wouldn't try to make it look like my baby were kidnapped!). It also pulls together a lot of snips of theories people have posted related to if the mom is involved.

First off I think that these are very loving parents. I think Lisa was adored and well cared for. But I think there was a tragic accident that caused her death. Could have been something "violent" like being dropped or being smothered or falling out of the crib, but I think that it involved cold medicine. I also think that Mom was/is not capable of "dumping" her daughter, she had to have someone else do that. I can't imagine a mom with no other mental or emotional issues could just abandon their beloved child's body somewhere.

I think Mom gave her something for her cold and based the dose off of 30 pounds because she really has no concept of how much she weighed. OR that she just made a mistake and confused teaspoon and Tablespoon or the decimal point of ml. to give her. At that age you would usually use a medicine syringe to give a baby their meds. (Or it was put in her bottle.) I know mine always ended up dribbling some on their shirt, and sometimes on the crib sheet if I put them down immediately after so I think there should be evidence of the meds being given, unless it was gotten rid of.

I think Mom checked on her sometime later-- maybe 10:30, maybe later and realized that she was dead. I think she panicked big time. I think she quickly realized or at least believed that she had given her too much med and realized she would be arrested, put in jail and lose custody of her son. She is distraught over losing one child and doesn't want to lose the other one. And since Lisa is "the glue that holds the family together" she knows that she will lose Dad too. Her life as she knows it will be over. So she calls someone for help (OR someone else happens to already be there) and to ask what to do. A friend, family member, neighbor, someone. If she is sure that Lisa is dead and not capable of being revived then she may not think that calling 911 should be her first response. They give her very bad advice and do not tell her to call 911. Instead they tell her to sit tight and they will be over and help take care of it.

This person comes over and it is decided to stage it as a kidnapping. Accomplice will take the body somewhere, I am guessing to the river. Not much to clean up in the house if it was just an overdose of meds. One of them tampers with the screen/window. But mom is just distraught and distracted so isn't really able to adequately stage the house. At some point after 2:30ish am the accomplice also reminds her that since they communicated by phone that the cell phones need to disappear. Since it is supposed to look like a kidnapping dumping just the one phone that was used would look stupid, they have to make it look like all 3 were stolen. Someone throws them into the woods, maybe mom, maybe the accomplice, I think mom. I don't think mom has a clear enough head to think to remove the batteries or sim cards, she is just trying to get them out of the house. Accomplice might think to remove batteries and cards.

Accomplice burns the baby's clothes in the dumpster because 1. they have med stain on them so that would show what med was given and 2. it would delay identification of the body when/if it were found. Medicine syringe also may have been put in the dumpster and any blankets or towels that might have evidence on them.

Not sure when or how the son gets into the bed, he either was put to sleep in there or the mom gets him and brings him in. You know how we often say "hug your kids tighter today" after a tragic death-- she is keeping her son close because he is her only child left now. I don't think the boys know anything. Kids this age aren't that great at lying and covering things up-- they would have said something to someone by now, just like that "balloon boy" did in the interview.

I am sure mom couldn't get to sleep. I would think she was in a daze and emotionally drained and shocked. She forgets to turn out the lights and lock the door and just goes to hold her son and eventually falls asleep or pretends she is asleep. (I think she was pretending, not enough time to actually fall asleep in the state she would have been in) Or she is still up in the house and hears Dad come in and runs to the bedroom to make it look like she was asleep and of course can't turn the lights off in time. I think I would have been in my baby's room just sitting there holding something of hers (Barney?) and crying my eyes out.

I think her tears and grief are genuine, but because she knows that Lisa is gone and she is grieving for her. And now she is in over her head. Not only will she be arrested for this if she confesses but she brought someone else in that will also have their life ruined by their involvement. And that person could also be reminding her to keep quiet every time they see each other if it is a family member or close friend. I do think (hope) that she will crack.

Of course I also hope that I am terribly wrong and will be the first to shout Hallelujah if I am! I hope mom is not involved and of course that Lisa was taken by someone that wanted a baby and she is being taken care of and will be reunited with them soon. I did believe that initially but too much seems to be adding up that puts a whole lot of doubt on that.

Here are the questions I want to know the answer to:
1. Did Mom seem like she always does when awakened from a deep sleep. Did her face look red, her eyes swollen or glassy? Did she look like she had been crying recently? My husband would know in an instant if something was off like that.

2. Was there an unusual amount of used facial tissue found in the trash? I want to think that if mom is involved then she was distraught and thus would have been using a whole bunch of tissue to blow nose/dry eyes. If it were me I would have been puking (that is what I do under stress and emotional distress) so I wonder if they might have also found evidence of that like towels used to wipe her face or evidence in the bathroom.


All of this is MOO!!! If I have overstepped any bounds in posting this then please remove or edit it.

In da Middle
10-09-2011, 12:35 PM
The facts.

All MSM has reported is that a teenager, not the teenager pictured but A teenaged neighbor was questioned for about an hour, and because he had been in the home of Lisa he had DNA taken.

And that the youth lived at the house in the video.

All the rest is RUMOR.


Exactly!!

cluciano63
10-09-2011, 12:36 PM
I have a possibly dumb, possibly irrelevant question about the list of 9 or so people drawn up by JI. Why would a woman cheating on her husband kidnap a baby? Sorry, not trying to be dumb or snarky here, but I do not see how those 2 ideas are even related. I understood the other things, like a woman who has recently lost a child, but this one escapes me. Maybe it's because I am happily childfree, or because I've never cheated, I dunno...sometimes I think my tagline should be "expert in neuroscience, generally clueless otherwise." :rolleyes:

Seems like a very weird way to get added to a list of possible child kidnappers to me...what does cheating on husband have to do with anything? Good grief, I'd hate to be the woman or women having LE come to my door because of that...

Also, so far we have really only heard the parents' versions of what LE has said or done...I don't consider any of it fact until LE confirms it, personally.

liz b.
10-09-2011, 12:37 PM
Was the window with the screen tampered with open ? Because how else could the screen be either pushed in or out ? MOO Aren't most screens flush with the window ? Could swear I had read that that window was open, but have not seen that in a while..

IF it was Deb who left all the lights on, it sounds like she was afraid to be alone with the children at night..MOO In that case, she probably would have locked the front door... She said that she couldn't remember if she locked it or not ? IDK if the lights were part of any staging ? Because, why would Jeremy ever have mentioned them ? He went around turning the lights off when he came home ? It is counter-intuitive to think that an intruder would turn all the lights on... It sound like a dumb way to stage an apparent kidnapping of a baby.MOO

I would love to know the results of the print taking and dna, especially around the baby's room, crib, door knob, bedding etc....

Tuffy
10-09-2011, 12:37 PM
You mean like they've taken the parents into custody, the ones many speculate LE believe were somehow involved?

Sorry, your post is simply my jumping off point and prompting this thought and is not aimed at you or anyone specific.

We have all done a decent job of keeping a cool head in this case although occasionally some of us, myself included, have had our moments of frustration.

In a nutshell, the thought I am trying to express is that while LE may question many, including the parents, associates, neighbors, the mail man, and whoever. No person has been named a suspect or even a POI.

As this day progresses I hope that we can all keep our wits about us in our great concern over baby Lisa.

We are all going to have theories, ideas and things that make us go hmmmmmm . . . and that is the beauty of this site.

I learn the most from those with whom I disagree sometimes.

The post I was responding to was stating that perhaps the teen had refused to speak to the police further. I believe that if the teen weren't cooperating with the investigation, and the police believed he were involved, they likely would have taken him into custody. I don't believe the police would just move on if he weren't cooperating.

Even if the police believe the parents are involved, there isn't reason to take them into custody, because as far as we know they are still speaking with police, and cooperating.

That's the only point I was trying to make with my post. Just for the record, I don't believe this teen to be involved. Quite the opposite. I feel very bad for him because I see no reason to suspect him.

BeanE
10-09-2011, 12:37 PM
KrisKetz Kris Ketz
@KCjoker @lazlothebuzz (2) ...it remains an ongoing investigation. They have 50 detectives who have worked this case & not done yet.
1 hour ago

KrisKetz Kris Ketz
@KCjoker @lazlothebuzz there are NO suspects in this case but public confusion about the case comes from what little PD is saying.
1 hour ago

KrisKetz Kris Ketz
#LisaIrwin t-shirts available at Kansas Speedway today. post.ly/3XDgE
1 hour ago

KrisKetz Kris Ketz
Report: Teen Interviewed In Baby #LisaIrwin Case lsnlw.com/t/1874939358/ #fb
1 hour ago

BeanE
10-09-2011, 12:40 PM
kshbphotog Brandon Billinger
It appears as though police detectives are searching #lisairwin's home again. @NBCActionNews @todayshow
2 minutes ago

Police are back out at #lisairwins home. Odd that they have their flashing lights on. @nbcactionnews
12 minutes ago

Very interesting to hear what people at the local Wendy's about baby Lisa. Sure they are loving all the business from the tv crews!
34 minutes ago


Brandon Billinger
@kshbphotog Kansas
News Photojournalist, father, and Daddy Blogger. The views and opinions on this account do not reflect the views of KSHB-TV.
http://twitter.com/#!/kshbphotog

4BB
10-09-2011, 12:40 PM
These were the exact words by "in da middle" when someone posted a picture of a home in question

"YES!!!!! that is exactly the house I was inquiring about if anybody had an image of. And yes I have my reasons and this is the teen that immediately that came to mind!!!! Yes it is a 'he' and yes lets just say this family has 'issues'. FYI house is on the other side of the street from them on the corner of lister and chelsea. "

Thats it. Nothing less. Nothing more. Hope that clears things up for everyone and thanks in da middle for your local help :seeya:

Wishbone
10-09-2011, 12:40 PM
She's 25 and he's 27, I believe.



Maybe its just me, but they look old for that age.........

kmartin96
10-09-2011, 12:41 PM
Hi all-
LONGTIME lurker....firstime poster. Just wanted to share a story with all of you. This is because until this (story) happened to a friend of mine, I ALWAYS had major doubts about the 'stranger came in the middle of the night', as statistics alone show this is very rare. BUT...this incident below happened to my friend just a few months ago, and about 30 days later, a similar circumstance at another home about 5 minutes away. These stories were not in our local news, or ANY reports anywhere. I just know about them first hand.....so there must be plenty of 'attempts' we just are never made aware of. I didn't use anyones actual names in this story to protect their privacy. Here is the story-

On Friday XXXX 24th at 1:00 am HUSBAND and I were sound asleep and I was awakened into a lighter sleep because I heard what I thought was HUSBAND opening our window. It seemed to be a struggle for him to get it open and was taking him forever. I asked him what he was doing and when he replied mumbling like he didn't know what I was talking about, I realized he was still sound asleep and that was not him trying to open our window. I jumped out of bed, turned on the flashlight and frantically kept saying HONEY, HONEY, HONEY, someone is opening our window. After HE woke up and him looking at me like I was crazy, we saw the window, which had been closed for the night, half open and the screen behind the window totally pulled up (which was also closed prior). The person must have ran off, but our blinds and drapes were closed so we couldn't see anything. We immediately called 911 while running into the girls rooms to make sure they were okay, thank God, they were. We also ran and locked all of our windows, which I never do...that will obviously change. When the police came to investigate, they saw the Little Tikes baby slide had been pushed up under our window as a ladder. They did fingerprinting on the window and took the screen and slide for fingerprinting. They brought a canine from the XXXX police department to come sniff and follow the person's scent. The canines showed that this person parked at the end of our street, hugged close to each house until it got to ours and went right into the backyard, to the slide, and to our window. Amazing that a dog can figure all of this out, but this made me more nervous because it obviously shows this person had intent in coming to our house and didn't even try a door. It's almost as if he had planned that he was coming through the window in advance. The police said it's a weird situation since it was obvious people were home since there were cars in the driveway. Again, which makes all of us nervous because it makes us think he wasn't looking to steal things, but more with an evil intent, as stealing is mostly done during the day when people are not home. I'm obviously upset and all I can keep thinking is this person wanted to hurt one of us or kidnap one of the girls. It is going to take a long time for me to get over this.

I will say, I have so many praises from this situation because I have no doubt that God was protecting us. Praise God he tried to come in through our window, one window over and it was baby's room. Honestly, I can't even let myself think about what would have happened. Praise God our windows stink and are really hard and loud to open because if we had nice new windows, I don't think I would have heard it. Thank God I woke up when I did and realized that it was not HUSBAND opening the window, honestly one minute later would have made this story different.

So, what's next? We met with an alarm company yesterday and are getting a hard-core alarm system installed. Something we never thought we'd do is that we are seriously considering buying a dog, because we have read it's the number one way of preventing intruders from entering your home. We are pretty much willing to spend whatever we need to in order to protect our family. So sad that this happened, we are forever changed. I hope I can get over this fear and I am sure I will, with time. I never thought this would happen to us, but it's always one of those irrational fears that you think about, but push to the side.

Hope everyone locks your doors and windows at night!



That being said....one of the major red flags for me with Baby Lisa's case is from the FIRST interview I saw with the parents where they mentioned the missing cell phones...'they took them so we couldn't call 911'. I think it was a pre-planned answer. Maybe the dad asked the mom (if he truly came home and found Lisa missing)....why the he77 would they take the phones??....and she had already had an answer to offer up to him, mom desperately hoping dad would 'buy it'. Or, Lisa was not kidnapped, they needed to hide cells to hide something...and they discussed an excuse in advance together. I think it was the first HUGE stumbling block for LE in believing the story. Either parent could have easily said....'that's good, that's good!!!!' It's a way for the police to track them!!!

There's so much MORE to say and to find out. I pray there is some new info today!!

wfgodot
10-09-2011, 12:41 PM
Hello kmartin96, and welcome to the world of posting at WS.

BeanE
10-09-2011, 12:41 PM
CliffJudy Cliff Judy
#LisaIrwin family & friends handing out fliers, selling shirts right now at KS Speedway. Corner of Daytona & Talladega. g.co/maps/uhqzy
28 minutes ago

Tuffy
10-09-2011, 12:42 PM
I have a possibly dumb, possibly irrelevant question about the list of 9 or so people drawn up by JI. Why would a woman cheating on her husband kidnap a baby? Sorry, not trying to be dumb or snarky here, but I do not see how those 2 ideas are even related. I understood the other things, like a woman who has recently lost a child, but this one escapes me. Maybe it's because I am happily childfree, or because I've never cheated, I dunno...sometimes I think my tagline should be "expert in neuroscience, generally clueless otherwise." :rolleyes:

Yeah, I don't get the whole divorced, or cheating on the husband thing either. If the police asked me right now who I would suspect in my life of such a thing, I doubt I could name one person. I don't really associate with anyone that I believe would be capable of hurting my kids.

I don't think I would come up with "well let me think if I know of anyone who's been cheating on their husband..." :waitasec:

BeanE
10-09-2011, 12:43 PM
KCTVPhotog_Josh Josh Collins
Police just entered #LisaIrwin home again.
17 seconds ago

Jacie Estes
10-09-2011, 12:44 PM
Time for Gardenlady to get some work done in the garden while the weather is so beautiful!

Hoping to come back and see good news for baby Lisa!

I will be doing that tomorrow; we had our first official snow yesterday so garden time is near the end. :( Food freezing time coming up. :)

vlpate
10-09-2011, 12:44 PM
You mean like they've taken the parents into custody, the ones many speculate LE believe were somehow involved?

Sorry, your post is simply my jumping off point and prompting this thought and is not aimed at you or anyone specific.

We have all done a decent job of keeping a cool head in this case although occasionally some of us, myself included, have had our moments of frustration.

In a nutshell, the thought I am trying to express is that while LE may question many, including the parents, associates, neighbors, the mail man, and whoever. No person has been named a suspect or even a POI.

As this day progresses I hope that we can all keep our wits about us in our great concern over baby Lisa.

We are all going to have theories, ideas and things that make us go hmmmmmm . . . and that is the beauty of this site.

I learn the most from those with whom I disagree sometimes.

BEM: Isn't that the truth. If we all thought alike and agreed with everything and everyone, we'd soon die of boredom and learn nothing. There used to be a poster on a forum for JonBenet, 1999, I believe - and one of the posters and I used to throw down in the private area over Bill Clinton and other issues political - but I fondly remember that poster to this day as someone who challenged me to research and fact find before I started running off at the mouth. I learned a great deal from her and think of her often.. :seeya: Cher.

Sorry for going on, but your one line stuck out for me. We can agree to disagree, or even end up agreeing, but it should never be personal.

Tuffy
10-09-2011, 12:46 PM
Welcome, kmartin96! Scary story, I'm glad you're all ok.

btw- I like your user name. I saw it as kmart! :D

ami
10-09-2011, 12:46 PM
Yeah, I don't get the whole divorced, or cheating on the husband thing either. If the police asked me right now who I would suspect in my life of such a thing, I doubt I could name one person. I don't really associate with anyone that I believe would be capable of hurting my kids.

I don't think I would come up with "well let me think if I know of anyone who's been cheating on their husband..." :waitasec:

The only connection I could think of is someone cheating on their H with the kidnapped child's father - as a sort of revenge thing against her lover's wife, or to create drama and swoop to the rescue or a la Fatal Attraction or similar. However not seeming to be the case here, so I'm also not sure why a random affair would lead to kidnap either.

cluciano63
10-09-2011, 12:46 PM
kshbphotog Brandon Billinger
It appears as though police detectives are searching #lisairwin's home again. @NBCActionNews @todayshow
2 minutes ago

Police are back out at #lisairwins home. Odd that they have their flashing lights on. @nbcactionnews
12 minutes ago

Very interesting to hear what people at the local Wendy's about baby Lisa. Sure they are loving all the business from the tv crews!
34 minutes ago


Brandon Billinger
@kshbphotog Kansas
News Photojournalist, father, and Daddy Blogger. The views and opinions on this account do not reflect the views of KSHB-TV.
http://twitter.com/#!/kshbphotog

LE having their lights flashing as they return to the home is interesting...

liz b.
10-09-2011, 12:47 PM
A post awhile back (this thread) indicated that mom had been on the computer that night and left the window open in the computer room. I may have missed this in MSM - anybody recall this being reported in MSM?

Do we know if any computers have been removed from the house for investigative purposes? This could be a good lead if mom was in contact with someone on the computer that night.

TY Elepher, that is news to me, and it answers a question I had about the window being left open... I have never heard anything about her being on the computer before...MOO

heartfortruth
10-09-2011, 12:47 PM
Deb said on the show last night that on Thurs after the LDT, as well as on Tues, LE said to her, "You killed her".

There's also another video - I *think* it's an ABC news video - where Deb discusses LE having said to her, "You killed her", but I can't remember if she gave the timeframe in which they'd said it.

ETA: This is the video:
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/inside-baby-lisas-home-14693905?tab=9482931&section=1206833

ETA again: Just listened to video again. Reference is to hours after Lisa went missing, on Tuesday, that LE said "You killed her" to Deb.

thanks, BeanE, you are so efficient! I still wonder , though, because DB SAID that they accused her directly; did they or is this how she took it? Guess I will just leave it at that and take her at her word; it came from her mouth to my eyes and ears.
I'm on "the Great Wall" right now and take everything that comes from the media spokespersons with a grain of salt and a wait and see attitude but thankfully they are getting Lisa's case out there!
Someone PLEASE TELL WHERE LISA IS!!!

Renea
10-09-2011, 12:51 PM
KCTVPhotog_Josh Josh Collins
Police just entered #LisaIrwin home again.
17 seconds ago

Today's the day!

tlcya
10-09-2011, 12:51 PM
The post I was responding to was stating that perhaps the teen had refused to speak to the police further. I believe that if the teen weren't cooperating with the investigation, and the police believed he were involved, they likely would have taken him into custody. I don't believe the police would just move on if he weren't cooperating.

Even if the police believe the parents are involved, there isn't reason to take them into custody, because as far as we know they are still speaking with police, and cooperating.

That's the only point I was trying to make with my post. Just for the record, I don't believe this teen to be involved. Quite the opposite. I feel very bad for him because I see no reason to suspect him.

aw dang it. I know that Tuffy. Like I said, your post just prompted the thought, I wasn't disagreeing with you or challenging your line of reasoning in any way.

It was simply that your thought prompted mine. Sorry if you thought anything else.

In da Middle
10-09-2011, 12:52 PM
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO MO - Amber Alert: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 October 2011 #8 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7205323&postcount=742)

If you look at the image attached I was responding to in THAT post, there is NO teen sitting on the porch. I was just stating that these two ('a teen' being questioned and 'this house' are in fact the same. I did NOT respond to the image where A teen is sitting on the porch!

BeanE
10-09-2011, 12:52 PM
LE having their lights flashing as they return to the home is interesting...

And the search happening while the family (although I don't know if that includes the parents) are out at the raceway selling tshirts and passing out flyers.

tlcya
10-09-2011, 12:53 PM
KCTVPhotog_Josh Josh Collins
Police just entered #LisaIrwin home again.
17 seconds ago

This bears repeating! TY TY

Off to monitor about a million news sources awaiting more!

HatesSociopaths
10-09-2011, 12:54 PM
I have a theory which would rely on a certain point so am wondering if anyone knows if this has been covered yet by the father. When did his new schedule get created? My theory rests on the notion that HE set up this new schedule within about 24 hours to it starting (ie. since the baby was last seen by others at the birthday pary.)

The theory is basically that somehow negligence caused the death of baby Lisa on Sunday night after the party, or perhaps the next day (the last day the parents saw her.) The mother and father then plotted a kidnapping story, perhaps afraid they would lose custody of their other two kids if the truth were to be revealed. They had to hide the phones because of that alleged 2:38 phone call between each other (MOO) confirming the baby had been disposed of at the dumpster and set to flames.

MOO.

saba
10-09-2011, 12:54 PM
If you look at the image attached I was responding to in THAT post, there is NO teen sitting on the porch. I was just stating that these two ('a teen' being questioned and 'this house' are in fact the same. I did NOT respond to the image where A teen is sitting on the porch!

I hope I am never the verified local. Thanks for all you do!

matou
10-09-2011, 12:55 PM
What if someone wanted to rape the mother and because there was a boy sleeping in the bed with her, he took baby Lisa instead. He already had the phones taken from the counter in a bag or his pockets. JMO

In da Middle
10-09-2011, 12:55 PM
The local/WS member was very careful not to say that the person on the steps is the teen in question. The member only verified that the house in the picture had been of some unmentioned type of interest to the WS member. The member also stated the location and proximity of that house but was very careful about mentioning specific people at the house. Only said it was not abandoned and that there were "issues" at that house.


THANK YOU!!!!!! I could just give you a great big hug!

norest4thewicked
10-09-2011, 12:56 PM
I don't see the reason for having lights flashing for a routine search....can't think of one reason for it unless media and looky-loos are crowding the street.

norest4thewicked
10-09-2011, 12:57 PM
I hope I am never the verified local. Thanks for all you do!

Boy, no kidding!

kmartin96
10-09-2011, 12:57 PM
Thanks! When I compare to baby Lisa's story....I wonder...

Why couldn't dogs tell as much in Baby Lisa's situation. In my story, the dogs could tell where the person parked, where the person walked.

Also, I think my story does show that if a brazen person wants into your house, they will attempt it, whether or not there are signs that people are home.

Renea
10-09-2011, 12:57 PM
I have a theory which would rely on a certain point so am wondering if anyone knows if this has been covered yet by the father. When did his new schedule get created? My theory rests on the notion that HE set up this new schedule within about 24 hours to it starting (ie. since the baby was last seen by others at the birthday pary.)

The theory is basically that somehow negligence caused the death of baby Lisa on Sunday night after the party, or perhaps the next day (the last day the parents saw her.) The mother and father then plotted a kidnapping story, perhaps afraid they would lose custody of their other two kids if the truth were to be revealed. They had to hide the phones because of that alleged 2:38 phone call between each other (MOO) confirming the baby had been disposed of at the dumpster and set to flames.

MOO.

But last night Deborah said a neighbor was over right before all this happened.

BeanE
10-09-2011, 12:57 PM
thanks, BeanE, you are so efficient! I still wonder , though, because DB SAID that they accused her directly; did they or is this how she took it? Guess I will just leave it at that and take her at her word; it came from her mouth to my eyes and ears.
I'm on "the Great Wall" right now and take everything that comes from the media spokespersons with a grain of salt and a wait and see attitude but thankfully they are getting Lisa's case out there!
Someone PLEASE TELL WHERE LISA IS!!!

I dunno. She said twice, in two very separate interviews. They may have used different wording, and "You killed her" is simply what she perceived, or what she took as the meaning from their words.

Personally, though, because she did say it twice, in two separate interviews, I think it is what they said to her. It sounds like very typical interrogation for this type of situation.

What has me flummoxed though, is why they would say that, why they would suspect her, from Day One, and 2 days before she even failed the poly. What did they have that put them so quickly into that mode? Young has stressed that they do *not* go by statistics, but that they take the facts and evidence they have for the individual case. So what did they have right from the git-go?

LadyPirate
10-09-2011, 12:57 PM
I have a possibly dumb, possibly irrelevant question about the list of 9 or so people drawn up by JI. Why would a woman cheating on her husband kidnap a baby? Sorry, not trying to be dumb or snarky here, but I do not see how those 2 ideas are even related. I understood the other things, like a woman who has recently lost a child, but this one escapes me. Maybe it's because I am happily childfree, or because I've never cheated, I dunno...sometimes I think my tagline should be "expert in neuroscience, generally clueless otherwise." :rolleyes:

Because a woman cheating on her husband might take THEIR baby and leave? She might drop the baby off somewhere until she's able to go too? Hypothetically of course.

Patty G
10-09-2011, 12:57 PM
Partial Judge Jeannie Interview with the parents.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1209530440001/what-happened-to-baby-lisa/

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1208665557001/exclusive-did-deborah-bradley-fail-a-lie-detector-test/?playlist_id=163706

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1208764392001/exclusive-parents-of-missing-baby-lisa-speak-out/?playlist_id=163706

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1207459722001/wheres-baby-lisa/?playlist_id=163706

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1207454765001/10-month-old-baby-missing/?playlist_id=163706

BeanE
10-09-2011, 12:58 PM
Today's the day!

KCTVPhotog_Josh Josh Collins
More police arriving at #LisaIrwin home. yfrog.com/oc9wnqj
4 minutes ago

Wishbone
10-09-2011, 12:58 PM
Here's a snip video of the Jeanine interview from last night


http://video.foxnews.com/v/1208764392001/exclusive-parents-of-missing-baby-lisa-speak-out/?playlist_id=87485

Renea
10-09-2011, 12:59 PM
KCTVPhotog_Josh Josh Collins
More police arriving at #LisaIrwin home. yfrog.com/oc9wnqj
4 minutes ago

I am getting goose bumps!

norest4thewicked
10-09-2011, 12:59 PM
Thanks! When I compare to baby Lisa's story....I wonder...

Why couldn't dogs tell as much in Baby Lisa's situation. In my story, the dogs could tell where the person parked, where the person walked.

Also, I think my story does show that if a brazen person wants into your house, they will attempt it, whether or not there are signs that people are home.

kmartin...not to be OT for this thread, but do you have a link where you gave your story? I'd be interested to read it. :)

tlcya
10-09-2011, 01:00 PM
can anyone link any live footage or coverage of this most recent development??? I am not seeing anything regarding Lisa being possibly found and do not have the national news stations such as fox news or cnn on my home tv.

TIA!

keeponsearching
10-09-2011, 01:00 PM
I have a sheet my pediatric gave me for correct dosage.
Acetaminophen Infant Concentrated 80mg/.08mL
5-9lbs .04mL
10-14lbs .08mL
15-19lbs 1.2mL
20-24lbs 1.6 mL

Ibuprofen Infants COncentrated 50mg/1.25mL
5-9lbs .625 mL
10-14lbs 1.25mL
15-19lbs 1.875 mL
20-24lbs 2.5mL

Tylenol Suspension Liquid( acetaminophen ) 160mg/5mL
10-14 pounds 1/2 tsp
15-19 pounds 3/4 tsp
20-24 pounds 1 tsp
25-30 pounds 1 1/4 tsp

Ibuprofen Suspension Liquid 100mg/5mL
10-14 pounds 1/2 tsp
15-19 pounds 3/4 tsp
20-24 pounds 1 tsp
25-30 pounds 1 1/4 tsp


Now at 1 yr my daughter weighed 21 pounds So that would either be 1sp of liquid or 2.5 ml of concentrated. . Now this is just regular. Everyone knows under a certain age ( i can not tell you, I do not give my kids it anyways) to not give multi symptom drugs meds.

cluciano63
10-09-2011, 01:00 PM
OK sounds like a lot of LE converging on the home...maybe some news to come soon...

HatesSociopaths
10-09-2011, 01:00 PM
But last night Deborah said a neighbor was over right before all this happened.

Perhaps the neighbor was told the baby was in her room sleeping. Definitely worth looking into!

mck16
10-09-2011, 01:00 PM
If you look at the image attached I was responding to in THAT post, there is NO teen sitting on the porch. I was just stating that these two ('a teen' being questioned and 'this house' are in fact the same. I did NOT respond to the image where A teen is sitting on the porch!

That is exactly what I was remembering about your post. Glad you posted the above. Certainly a lot of confusion among people. I don't really understand why. jmo

norest4thewicked
10-09-2011, 01:01 PM
KCTVPhotog_Josh Josh Collins
More police arriving at #LisaIrwin home. yfrog.com/oc9wnqj
4 minutes ago

....here we go....

SyraKelly
10-09-2011, 01:02 PM
I so hope today is the day Lisa is found!!

Cher352
10-09-2011, 01:02 PM
And the search happening while the family (although I don't know if that includes the parents) are out at the raceway selling tshirts and passing out flyers.

Know this coming from New station tweets but does anyone know if any of the local stations doing a live feed?

BeanE
10-09-2011, 01:02 PM
I am getting goose bumps!

I asked this guy a few minutes ago if this search is with a warrant or an agreed-to search, and he said:

kshbphotog Brandon Billinger
@CaseSignal I honestly have no idea. Detectives aren't talking to us.
13 minutes ago

tlcya
10-09-2011, 01:03 PM
ackkkkk I cant find any live coverage, if there are folks watching live coverage can you post what you are seeing? Thanks so much.

JBean
10-09-2011, 01:03 PM
I have a question regarding the 'they took our cell phones so we couldn't call 911" comment since I didn't actually hear it.
Was this said to mean:
they took our cell phones so(as a consequence of) we couldn't call 911?
OR
they took our cell phones so (with the intent to prevent)we couldn't call 911?

IOW, is their position that the cell phones were taken to keep them from calling 911 or the cell phones were taken and as such they had no way to call 911?

Shelby1
10-09-2011, 01:03 PM
Hmmmm.....I just wonder what they heck is at that house that they've not known about before?


Very interesting.

norest4thewicked
10-09-2011, 01:03 PM
LE doesn't run code for a search warrant....

BeanE
10-09-2011, 01:04 PM
I have a sheet my pediatric gave me for correct dosage.

Tylenol ( acetaminophen )
10-14 pounds 1/2 tsp
15-19 pounds 3/4 tsp
20-24 pounds 1 tsp
25-30 pounds 1 1/4 tsp

Ibuprofen
10-14 pounds 1/2 tsp
15-19 pounds 3/4 tsp
20-24 pounds 1 tsp
25-30 pounds 1 1/4 tsp

Now at 1 yr my daughter weighed 21 pounds So that would of been 1 tsp. Now this is just regular. Everyone knows under a certain age ( i can not tell you, I do not give my kids it anyways) to not give multi symptom drugs meds.

Okay, I *do* need new glasses. I read that as # of lbs of Tylenol and Ibuprofen to take. :floorlaugh:

(And it seems about the right # of lbs I need for the headache I have right now! lol)

Shelby1
10-09-2011, 01:05 PM
I have a question regarding the 'they took our cell phones so we couldn't call 911" comment since I didn't actually hear it.
Was this said to mean:
they took our cell phones so(as a consequence of) we couldn't call 911?
OR
they took our cell phones so (with the intent to prevent)we couldn't call 911?

IOW, is their position that the cell phones were taken to keep them from calling 911 or the cell phones were taken and as such they had no way to call 911?


IMO, it was the latter. As in, they had no way to call 911.

vlpate
10-09-2011, 01:05 PM
Hi all-
LONGTIME lurker....firstime poster. Just wanted to share a story with all of you. This is because until this (story) happened to a friend of mine, I ALWAYS had major doubts about the 'stranger came in the middle of the night', as statistics alone show this is very rare. BUT...this incident below happened to my friend just a few months ago, and about 30 days later, a similar circumstance at another home about 5 minutes away. These stories were not in our local news, or ANY reports anywhere. I just know about them first hand.....so there must be plenty of 'attempts' we just are never made aware of. I didn't use anyones actual names in this story to protect their privacy. Here is the story-

On Friday XXXX 24th at 1:00 am HUSBAND and I were sound asleep and I was awakened into a lighter sleep because I heard what I thought was HUSBAND opening our window. It seemed to be a struggle for him to get it open and was taking him forever. I asked him what he was doing and when he replied mumbling like he didn't know what I was talking about, I realized he was still sound asleep and that was not him trying to open our window. I jumped out of bed, turned on the flashlight and frantically kept saying HONEY, HONEY, HONEY, someone is opening our window. After HE woke up and him looking at me like I was crazy, we saw the window, which had been closed for the night, half open and the screen behind the window totally pulled up (which was also closed prior). The person must have ran off, but our blinds and drapes were closed so we couldn't see anything. We immediately called 911 while running into the girls rooms to make sure they were okay, thank God, they were. We also ran and locked all of our windows, which I never do...that will obviously change. When the police came to investigate, they saw the Little Tikes baby slide had been pushed up under our window as a ladder. They did fingerprinting on the window and took the screen and slide for fingerprinting. They brought a canine from the XXXX police department to come sniff and follow the person's scent. The canines showed that this person parked at the end of our street, hugged close to each house until it got to ours and went right into the backyard, to the slide, and to our window. Amazing that a dog can figure all of this out, but this made me more nervous because it obviously shows this person had intent in coming to our house and didn't even try a door. It's almost as if he had planned that he was coming through the window in advance. The police said it's a weird situation since it was obvious people were home since there were cars in the driveway. Again, which makes all of us nervous because it makes us think he wasn't looking to steal things, but more with an evil intent, as stealing is mostly done during the day when people are not home. I'm obviously upset and all I can keep thinking is this person wanted to hurt one of us or kidnap one of the girls. It is going to take a long time for me to get over this.

I will say, I have so many praises from this situation because I have no doubt that God was protecting us. Praise God he tried to come in through our window, one window over and it was baby's room. Honestly, I can't even let myself think about what would have happened. Praise God our windows stink and are really hard and loud to open because if we had nice new windows, I don't think I would have heard it. Thank God I woke up when I did and realized that it was not HUSBAND opening the window, honestly one minute later would have made this story different.

So, what's next? We met with an alarm company yesterday and are getting a hard-core alarm system installed. Something we never thought we'd do is that we are seriously considering buying a dog, because we have read it's the number one way of preventing intruders from entering your home. We are pretty much willing to spend whatever we need to in order to protect our family. So sad that this happened, we are forever changed. I hope I can get over this fear and I am sure I will, with time. I never thought this would happen to us, but it's always one of those irrational fears that you think about, but push to the side.

Hope everyone locks your doors and windows at night!



That being said....one of the major red flags for me with Baby Lisa's case is from the FIRST interview I saw with the parents where they mentioned the missing cell phones...'they took them so we couldn't call 911'. I think it was a pre-planned answer. Maybe the dad asked the mom (if he truly came home and found Lisa missing)....why the he77 would they take the phones??....and she had already had an answer to offer up to him, mom desperately hoping dad would 'buy it'. Or, Lisa was not kidnapped, they needed to hide cells to hide something...and they discussed an excuse in advance together. I think it was the first HUGE stumbling block for LE in believing the story. Either parent could have easily said....'that's good, that's good!!!!' It's a way for the police to track them!!!

There's so much MORE to say and to find out. I pray there is some new info today!!

Your story made me remember a case in Dallas, Texas many years ago, in the late 80's, where a little boy was taken from his bedroom through his bedroom window. I don't know if he was ever found, but I do remember LE exhausting their list of possible POI's and came up with nothing. One thing they did point to as a possible reason this house and this room was targeted. There was a tricycle outside in the front yard, and on his window was a sticker indicating a child's room in case of fire. They felt the trike could have been what initially signaled this intruder that a small child lived in the house, and the sticker told him/her, exactly which room.

DB and JI had a child's playground in their backyard....sadly it is something to consider.

kmartin96
10-09-2011, 01:05 PM
kmartin...not to be OT for this thread, but do you have a link where you gave your story? I'd be interested to read it. :)

Hi-It's post 406 in this thread. My first post, I'm a little lost. Hope I am replying to you in the correct way!

Renea
10-09-2011, 01:05 PM
I asked this guy a few minutes ago if this search is with a warrant or an agreed-to search, and he said:

kshbphotog Brandon Billinger
@CaseSignal I honestly have no idea. Detectives aren't talking to us.
13 minutes ago

Are you getting this info off twitter... Keep us posted.... now I feel ill. I can't hit refresh fast enough...

BeanE
10-09-2011, 01:06 PM
KCTVPhotog_Josh Josh Collins
Police shooting exterior video of #LisaIrwin home. yfrog.com/j2kq9fjj
1 minute ago

kshbphotog Brandon Billinger

Police detectives taking video of the outside of #LisaIrwin's home. @NBCActionNews yfrog.com/hs6sxqsmj
1 minute ago

Jayarre
10-09-2011, 01:07 PM
IMO, it was the latter. As in, they had no way to call 911.

But he pulled his work cell out of his pocket and called.

Renea
10-09-2011, 01:07 PM
IMO, it was the latter. As in, they had no way to call 911.

But they did, he has his work cell.

norest4thewicked
10-09-2011, 01:07 PM
Hi-It's post 406 in this thread. My first post, I'm a little lost. Hope I am replying to you in the correct way!

Yes...you are...and welcome to Websleuths! :)

cluciano63
10-09-2011, 01:07 PM
I think our computers should "beep" when word "found" or "arrest" comes across, lol

pinkfly
10-09-2011, 01:07 PM
KCTVPhotog_Josh Josh Collins
Police just entered #LisaIrwin home again.
17 seconds ago

Wow...I misread this at first. My ever hopeful eyes read the part that said LisaIrwin home again. Then I noticed the ‘police have entered’ part. Well, if their lights are on they must be serious and not just more searching. This case has been a roller coaster ride and I am now prepared for any news and want it sooner than later.

Cher352
10-09-2011, 01:08 PM
While we are waiting for tweets does anyone had a link to the LE interview that was done last night in the dark? I watched it once but didn't save the link....Thks!

Shelby1
10-09-2011, 01:09 PM
But he pulled his work cell out of his pocket and called.


I've never seen that verified. If you have a link, I need to add it to my timeline.

tlcya
10-09-2011, 01:09 PM
Police detectives taking video of the outside of #LisaIrwin's home. @NBCActionNews http://yfrog.com/hs6sxqsmj
5 minutes ago

from twitters

Gardenlady
10-09-2011, 01:09 PM
Checking in while I'm blanching greens from the garden lol.... Sounds like a lot of activity? Wish there was a live feed, if anyone finds one please post, TiA! :)

Shelby1
10-09-2011, 01:10 PM
But they did, he has his work cell.



Again, I've never seen that verified. I need a link to add to timeline, if so.

Tuffy
10-09-2011, 01:10 PM
aw dang it. I know that Tuffy. Like I said, your post just prompted the thought, I wasn't disagreeing with you or challenging your line of reasoning in any way.

It was simply that your thought prompted mine. Sorry if you thought anything else.

No apology necessary. :)

That's what I thought too, tlcox. I just wanted to make sure that I was getting my point written clearly. In another post I think it may have seemed that I was trying to say I suspected the teen also. I just wanted to make sure that it was clear that wasn't what I was implying.

Renea
10-09-2011, 01:10 PM
While we are waiting for tweets does anyone had a link to the LE interview that was done last night in the dark? I watched it once but didn't save the link....Thks!

I recorded it... what do you need to know...

wfgodot
10-09-2011, 01:10 PM
kshbphotog Brandon Billinger

Detectives are now messing the window screens on the side of #LisaIrwin's home @NBCActionNews
2 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/%23lisairwin

liz b.
10-09-2011, 01:11 PM
Your story made me remember a case in Dallas, Texas many years ago, in the late 80's, where a little boy was taken from his bedroom through his bedroom window. I don't know if he was ever found, but I do remember LE exhausting their list of possible POI's and came up with nothing. One thing they did point to as a possible reason this house and this room was targeted. There was a tricycle outside in the front yard, and on his window was a sticker indicating a child's room in case of fire. They felt the trike could have been what initially signaled this intruder that a small child lived in the house, and the sticker told him/her, exactly which room.

DB and JI had a child's playground in their backyard....sadly it is something to consider.

What a sad case,that one in Dallas...I could,though,swear that I read that one cannot see the back of the house from the street in front ? Know I read it waaay back in the threads... MOO

norest4thewicked
10-09-2011, 01:11 PM
Hi-It's post 406 in this thread. My first post, I'm a little lost. Hope I am replying to you in the correct way!

That is a downright terrifying story! Thank heavens you woke up in time.....

Renea
10-09-2011, 01:11 PM
Again, I've never seen that verified. I need a link to add to timeline, if so.

I am pretty sure they mentioned that last night... the interview on CNN

matou
10-09-2011, 01:12 PM
Again, I've never seen that verified. I need a link to add to timeline, if so.

People posted that it was from Judge Jeanine's interview last night. I don't have a link.

HatesSociopaths
10-09-2011, 01:12 PM
My speculation is they are ramping up the paranoia with the parents with what is going on right now. Hoping to get one of them to spill the beans. MOO.

saba
10-09-2011, 01:12 PM
Again, I've never seen that verified. I need a link to add to timeline, if so.

think it was part of Jeanine Pirro interview

Patty G
10-09-2011, 01:12 PM
Again, I've never seen that verified. I need a link to add to timeline, if so.

The father and mother stated on Judge Jeannie last night that he reached in his pocket and he had his work cellphone with him. It might be in the four short videos I posted a short time ago.

vlpate
10-09-2011, 01:12 PM
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-bradleys-family-talks-about-past-20111008,0,1316565.story

:rocker: Thank you!

my_tee_mouse
10-09-2011, 01:13 PM
I grew up in a small town and our home was not the best. It was warm, it was filled with love but we were poor. I have fond memories of that home because I knew I was loved and that my parents gave me values and saw to it that I had what I needed. Not what I wanted but what I needed. This teen is not responsible for being born into a home that does not meet our "standards". I was embarrassed as a child by the outside of my home, my father ran a used car part business in the rear of the property. Yes a junk yard. But, he was there taking care of us, he was loving and we had tons of home-made fun and the outside, I learned years later isn't what makes us who we are. I have fond memories of that old home and helping Dad fix it up as I grew older. I was a straight A student and through eduction for myself I was able to provide more for my family and I have been quite successful in life.

A house is a house. A home is a home.
Beautifully stated, grandmaj. You brought tears to my eyes. We need more people who "judge" others based on what's in the heart and head...not in the bankbook.

IAM
10-09-2011, 01:13 PM
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old (http://http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old)

tlcya
10-09-2011, 01:13 PM
Shelby1, I believe it was on Judge Jeanine interview that dad stated he had used his work phone to call 911, I did not see the interview but folks posted what was being said. IIRC, it said he used his work phone and it was debated as to where that was located. I suggested in his vehicle. based on the fact that we were debating the phone's location, I don't think we know if it was in his pocket, outside in his vehicle or exactly where the phone was at.

If anyone is here that watched the interview could clear this up, please holla.

matou
10-09-2011, 01:13 PM
kshbphotog Brandon Billinger

Detectives are now messing the window screens on the side of #LisaIrwin's home @NBCActionNews
2 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/#!/search/realtime/%23lisairwin

"messing" the window screens? Like dusting for prints, etc?

wfgodot
10-09-2011, 01:14 PM
"messing" the window screens? Like dusting for prints, etc?
??? ya got me! have been trying to figure that out too

curiousc
10-09-2011, 01:15 PM
"messing" the window screens? Like dusting for prints, etc?

Glad you asked :) Not sure what it means either.

Maybe trying to re-enact what happened that night?

marycarney
10-09-2011, 01:15 PM
I have a sheet my pediatric gave me for correct dosage.

Tylenol ( acetaminophen )
10-14 pounds 1/2 tsp
15-19 pounds 3/4 tsp
20-24 pounds 1 tsp
25-30 pounds 1 1/4 tsp

Ibuprofen
10-14 pounds 1/2 tsp
15-19 pounds 3/4 tsp
20-24 pounds 1 tsp
25-30 pounds 1 1/4 tsp

Now at 1 yr my daughter weighed 21 pounds So that would of been 1 tsp. Now this is just regular. Everyone knows under a certain age ( i can not tell you, I do not give my kids it anyways) to not give multi symptom drugs meds.

Not to wander too far OT, but this type of dosing is VERY DANGEROUS! It does not say how many milligrams are in each teaspoon. Until very recently, there were TWO concentrations of liquid acetominophen and substituting one for the other was the cause of many, many unintentional poisonings. Also dangerous is expressing the dosage in teaspoons - milliliters/cc's is the preferred, more precise means of measuring.
FTR: I am a pediatric ICU nurse (RN) with 30+ years experience.

raeann
10-09-2011, 01:15 PM
But they did, he has his work cell.

But the person who took them would have no idea what time she would be discovered missing.....their intent could have been only to gain a few minutes lead IF they were heard leaving or the child was quickly discovered to be missing. They would have no idea that nothing would be noted until the father returned.


jmo

Cher352
10-09-2011, 01:16 PM
I recorded it... what do you need to know...

Nothing really just wanted to watch it again as I was half asleep the first time...Thanks

Renea
10-09-2011, 01:16 PM
"messing" the window screens? Like dusting for prints, etc?

They already did that... you could see the black powder all over the windows in last nights interview..

Shelby1
10-09-2011, 01:16 PM
Shelby1, I believe it was on Judge Jeanine interview that dad stated he had used his work phone to call 911, I did not see the interview but folks posted what was being said. IIRC, it said he used his work phone and it was debated as to where that was located. I suggested in his vehicle. based on the fact that we were debating the phone's location, I don't think we know if it was in his pocket, outside in his vehicle or exactly where the phone was at.

If anyone is here that watched the interview could clear this up, please holla.


Thank you.


I want to make sure all info is accurate before changing/adding etc. to timeline--as much as I can, anyway.

Renea
10-09-2011, 01:17 PM
Nothing really just wanted to watch it again as I was half asleep the first time...Thanks

That's why I recorded it... so I could watch it again this morning... sober and less tired! lol

Gardenlady
10-09-2011, 01:17 PM
@BunnyNC @NBCActionNews they have been pushing the screen Ono the house almost trying to recreate why happened

kmartin96
10-09-2011, 01:17 PM
That is a downright terrifying story! Thank heavens you woke up in time.....

Just to clarify-I am posting my good friend's story...what she wrote to me to share in the 1st person (her words)....

What's additionally scary is that IF the intruder had picked the "correct" window, and gotten into the baby's room, walked out the front door with her, and down the street where they had left the parked car.....YOU KNOW my friend and husband would be the PRIME suspects.

I don't get why they didn't get more info from the tracking dogs in Lisa's case.

cluciano63
10-09-2011, 01:17 PM
Maybe the tweet meant "messing with" the screen, as in trying to see what it would take to bend it, etc...who knows...

curiousc
10-09-2011, 01:17 PM
They already did that... you could see the black powder all over the windows in last nights interview..

I'd love to know if there were any "different" fingerprints other than those who live in the house.

pinkfly
10-09-2011, 01:18 PM
If you are staging a crime scene I guess you better know more about how they analyze a ripped screen and window size before you use that in your staging. JMO

NancyA
10-09-2011, 01:18 PM
Checking in while I'm blanching greens from the garden lol.... Sounds like a lot of activity? Wish there was a live feed, if anyone finds one please post, TiA! :)

I feel your pain, we're having friends over for an 'English' dinner later so I'm trying to make the filling for a steak and ale pie and watching so my custard for the trifle doesn't burn AND keeping an eye on activity here on my laptop too...oh well if it all goes wrong we'll just have pizza delivered. :wink:

Kakidoll
10-09-2011, 01:18 PM
Is anyone able to monitor the scanners at scanner thread? maybe help find out more?

liz b.
10-09-2011, 01:19 PM
"messing" the window screens? Like dusting for prints, etc?

The story about a window,or more than one window,being open seems to have gone away ? I know I saw it once. I'm thinking that LE is confused as to how a screen was pushed in or out if the window(s) were not open ? MOO

Jayarre
10-09-2011, 01:19 PM
Thank you.


I want to make sure all info is accurate before changing/adding etc. to timeline--as much as I can, anyway.

I don't have a TV and was following the show on WS. Do you need me to go back and read the threads and find it ?

gliving
10-09-2011, 01:19 PM
I have a possibly dumb, possibly irrelevant question about the list of 9 or so people drawn up by JI. Why would a woman cheating on her husband kidnap a baby? Sorry, not trying to be dumb or snarky here, but I do not see how those 2 ideas are even related. I understood the other things, like a woman who has recently lost a child, but this one escapes me. Maybe it's because I am happily childfree, or because I've never cheated, I dunno...sometimes I think my tagline should be "expert in neuroscience, generally clueless otherwise." :rolleyes:

The only thing I could come up with is the parents were asked to name any of their associates they thought had blurred boundaries. Someone, who in their opinion, chose a lifestyle they did not agree with. So you get the cheaters tossed in. Similar to asking "do you know any bad people?" They answer John and Sue because Sue been running around on John. :waitasec:

An example only with my apologies to all John and Sues.


MOO

keeponsearching
10-09-2011, 01:19 PM
Not to wander too far OT, but this type of dosing is VERY DANGEROUS! It does not say how many milligrams are in each teaspoon. Until very recently, there were TWO concentrations of liquid acetominophen and substituting one for the other was the cause of many, many unintentional poisonings. Also dangerous is expressing the dosage in teaspoons - milliliters/cc's is the preferred, more precise means of measuring.
FTR: I am a pediatric ICU nurse (RN) with 30+ years experience.

Sorry, that makes sense, Ill update it.