View Full Version : MO - AMBER ALERT: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #13
wfgodot
10-10-2011, 05:13 PM
An AMBER Alert was issued for 10-month-old Lisa Irwin on Tuesday, October 4th after she was abducted from her crib during the early morning hours. As of today (Sunday), no suspects have been identified, and the AMBER Alert has been canceled.
Lisa is 10 months old. She has blue eyes and blonde hair. She is 30 inches tall and weighs between 26 and 30 pounds. Lisa was last seen wearing purple shorts and a purple shirt with white kittens on it.
Lisa is described as having two bottom teeth, a small bug bite under her left ear, a beauty mark on her right outer thigh and currently has a cold with a cough.
Anyone with information is asked to call 9-1-1, your local police agency, or the Kansas City TIPS Hotline at 816-474-8477.
Lisa Irwin (http://i56.tinypic.com/2190u8h.jpg)
Thread #1 Thread #2
Thread #3 Thread #4
Thread #5 Thread #6
Thread #7 Thread #8
Thread #9 Thread #10 Thread #11
Thread #12 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150993&page=29)
RULES:
-MSM (main-stream media) links ONLY. No rumors (including those from Facebook).
-If you cannot link, you cannot discuss.
-No sleuthing minors, or "random people." Parents only.
-Parents are to be treated as victims unless or until they are named either persons of interest or suspects.
Please continue here.....
SilkySifaka
10-10-2011, 05:19 PM
Latest seems to be they are searching behind a neighbors house...someone posted "the neighbor" who was questioned before.
vasportsmom
10-10-2011, 05:20 PM
Thanks for the new thread now I will at least know how many pages I am behind when I go to cook. Why must my family always want fed right when things get interesting? I really am ready to ditch my from scratch healthy cooking and order pizzas.
BetteDavisEyes
10-10-2011, 05:21 PM
Isn't this the "located" forum?
yllek
10-10-2011, 05:21 PM
We haven't heard from the parents in a couple of days. They were not with Jeremy's sister at the speedway event this weekend. Last we heard, they are reportedly cooperating with police again. Possible that some of the little gaps Debbi admitted were causing her problems with LE are now coming together if the parents have been spending time with LE. A good thing. Maybe that's why new re-enactments and new activity is occuring?
I do not believe that this LE is doing anything obvious at the house for the first time. They definitely don't appear like Keystone Cops to me. We watched them, in full protective gear, processing the window seals, checking the outside very early on... They've been interviewing and re-interviewing in the area. They searched the immediate areas and the landfill mutiple times. They've followed on tips. They're pushing the mother for as much detail as possible. They have searched the home, with the parents' consent, a few times. As a new details emerge, I think it's natural that LE would go back and check/test specifics. All this is a good sign to me. Imo.
ClueMeIn
10-10-2011, 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClueMeIn
Ugh! They are searching behind the teenager's house!
Are you sure, or are you guessing? TIA -
I am sure. Yes! However, we can verify with our resident person, from the neighborhood. :)
TexasLil
10-10-2011, 05:21 PM
Is this guy carrying a pair of shoes to the back of the house?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=551&pictureid=12905
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old
vasportsmom
10-10-2011, 05:22 PM
Isn't this the "located" forum?
Looks that way. Oops or can we hope that woofy is really psychic and has been holding back on us?
curiositycat
10-10-2011, 05:22 PM
@ Peter Alexander
Detectives now combing #LisaIrwin (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23LisaIrwin) garage & drainage ditch behind home for evidence. yfrog.com/j2mewfwj (http://yfrog.com/j2mewfwj)
SilkySifaka
10-10-2011, 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClueMeIn
Ugh! They are searching behind the teenager's house!
Are you sure, or are you guessing? TIA -
I am sure. Yes! However, we can verify with our resident person, from the neighborhood. :)
Thanks clue. I still think this teen is hinky...especially with the interest LE is showing in him.
Gardenlady
10-10-2011, 05:22 PM
Can someone fill me in quickly on the CSI van and glass bottles? Was trying to cook supper and missed it all!
ClueMeIn
10-10-2011, 05:23 PM
I would think they would have the answers to the dna by now.
TexasLil
10-10-2011, 05:23 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=551&pictureid=12907
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=551&pictureid=12908
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old
Gardenlady
10-10-2011, 05:23 PM
Thanks clue. I still think this teen is hinky...especially with the interest LE is showing in him.
Same here....
ClueMeIn
10-10-2011, 05:24 PM
However, I do not want this to be true, so I keep looking for other explanations.
Columbo
10-10-2011, 05:24 PM
I'm confused. Was she found? Why is this in the "Located" part of the missing persons forum?
Gardenlady
10-10-2011, 05:25 PM
Are we on the correct thread, btw? :D
curiositycat
10-10-2011, 05:25 PM
Can someone fill me in quickly on the CSI van and glass bottles? Was trying to cook supper and missed it all!
Detectives and CSI van pulled up, went into back yard, reporter said they heard the sound of "clanging glass bottles" they are searching garage, and drainage ditch..
Nefriahaia
10-10-2011, 05:26 PM
Thanks for the new thread now I will at least know how many pages I am behind when I go to cook. Why must my family always want fed right when things get interesting? I really am ready to ditch my from scratch healthy cooking and order pizzas.
Veggie pizzas!
wfgodot
10-10-2011, 05:26 PM
Isn't this the "located" forum?
Great, wrong forum. Will fix
Gardenlady
10-10-2011, 05:26 PM
Detectives and CSI van pulled up, went into back yard, reporter said they heard the sound of "clanging glass bottles" they are searching garage, and drainage ditch..
Thank you SO MUCH. That'll teach me to try and get anything done! :)
JeannieC
10-10-2011, 05:27 PM
Isn't this the "located" forum?
Yes it is.
Jacie Estes
10-10-2011, 05:28 PM
Police aren’t sayin what they are looking for but are now searching
behind a neighbors home on the corner of N Lister and 37th St.
http://www.heycameraman.net/?p=1407
KaylynnCouture
10-10-2011, 05:28 PM
Thank you so much for the new thread! I should have been more on top of it this afternoon, sorry. :(
dog.gone.cute
10-10-2011, 05:28 PM
Isn't this the "located" forum?
Yes it is ... no wonder I couldn't find the new thread ...
I thought I was going :crazy:
:waitasec:
curiositycat
10-10-2011, 05:29 PM
Thank you SO MUCH. That'll teach me to try and get anything done! :)
I hear you!
JeannieC
10-10-2011, 05:29 PM
Great, wrong forum. Will fix
Thank you for doing this.
vasportsmom
10-10-2011, 05:30 PM
Veggie pizzas!
If my kids come home from soccer and football to find pizza delievery they will think I was the one abducted by aliens. Should that happen I will try to get word back to someone here on whether or not they have lil Lisa because that really is becoming my main theory. Nothing else fits.
wfgodot
10-10-2011, 05:32 PM
Have beeped Fran the mod. Should be fixed (prayers, prayers) shortly. We shall soldier on, sorry about that, making three new threads at once at the time. Became cornfused I guess!
natsound
10-10-2011, 05:32 PM
Thanks for the new thread now I will at least know how many pages I am behind when I go to cook. Why must my family always want fed right when things get interesting? I really am ready to ditch my from scratch healthy cooking and order pizzas.
Crockpot. Thow it in, turn it on, wala!!
MissJames
10-10-2011, 05:32 PM
Yes,I saw this under located and assumed................: (
wfgodot
10-10-2011, 05:33 PM
Thank you so much for the new thread! I should have been more on top of it this afternoon, sorry. :(
That's okay KC! It was my turn, you did the last two (and managed to get them in the right forum, unlike yrs trly!).
MissJames
10-10-2011, 05:33 PM
Have beeped Fran the mod. Should be fixed (prayers, prayers) shortly. We shall soldier on, sorry about that, making three new threads at once at the time. Became cornfused I guess!
Many thanks!!!!
momtective
10-10-2011, 05:33 PM
Does anyone else find it strange that none of Jeremy & Debbie's friends have come out to support them in the search for Lisa? Maybe they have and we just haven't heard about it. I believe Jeremy & Debbie are innocent of any involvement in Lisa's disappearance but I just find it strange that we haven't heard from or seen any of their friends.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=551&pictureid=12907
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=551&pictureid=12908
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old
I see there is a camper in the back yard. Cell phones could easily be dropped into the black tank thorugh toilet. They need to pull that black tank.
I wonder what the shoes mean?
yllek
10-10-2011, 05:35 PM
Have beeped Fran the mod. Should be fixed (prayers, prayers) shortly. We shall soldier on, sorry about that, making three new threads at once at the time. Became cornfused I guess!
Thanks for taking the initiative to start the thread! May the fact that it landed in "located" be a forecast of the very near future.
Where is Lisa?
vasportsmom
10-10-2011, 05:36 PM
Okay, I am off to cook. I'm not the praying sort but prayers that woofy really knew what (s)he was doing and this thread turns out to be in the right forum afterall by the time I get back.
wfgodot
10-10-2011, 05:37 PM
Thanks for taking the initiative to start the thread! May the fact that it landed in "located" be a forecast of the very near future.
Where is Lisa?
Yes, I thought of that, it was going to be my "selling point" for goofing up! "Carry on, troops, it'll only bring us luck!" lolol. Hope it does!
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 05:37 PM
I really,really hope LE has a resolution in sight. I feel that maybe they are getting closer.
dog.gone.cute
10-10-2011, 05:38 PM
We haven't heard from the parents in a couple of days. They were not with Jeremy's sister at the speedway event this weekend. Last we heard, they are reportedly cooperating with police again. Possible that some of the little gaps Debbi admitted were causing her problems with LE are now coming together if the parents have been spending time with LE. A good thing. Maybe that's why new re-enactments and new activity is occuring?
snipped and BBM :
When I saw your post it made me think of the vigil ... did Lisa's parents attend the vigil ?
I was wondering because I do not recall seeing any photo/video of them at the vigil ... or maybe I missed it ...
TIA !
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 05:38 PM
Yes, I thought of that, it was going to be my "selling point" for goofing up! "Carry on, troops, it'll only bring us luck!" lolol. Hope it does!
Lucky # 13....
Jacie Estes
10-10-2011, 05:38 PM
Have beeped Fran the mod. Should be fixed (prayers, prayers) shortly. We shall soldier on, sorry about that, making three new threads at once at the time. Became cornfused I guess!
No problem, we appreciate your making a new thread.
loveandhugs
10-10-2011, 05:38 PM
Thanks clue. I still think this teen is hinky...especially with the interest LE is showing in him.
First I have heard of "teen". Can anyone give me info about him?
MissJames
10-10-2011, 05:39 PM
Does anyone else find it strange that none of Jeremy & Debbie's friends have come out to support them in the search for Lisa? Maybe they have and we just haven't heard about it. I believe Jeremy & Debbie are innocent of any involvement in Lisa's disappearance but I just find it strange that we haven't heard from or seen any of their friends.
Very much so.
I would expect to hear from the other parents of the two boys(the ex's),neighbors,family and friends.
Now ,this search is different than one in which the child may have wandered off. But still..............
shorty42404
10-10-2011, 05:39 PM
Dragging this in from thread #12....
Has this been posted yet?
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/10/3199043/kc-police-search-backyard-of-missing.html
Also Monday, reports surfaced of a homeless man seen in the area in the weeks leading up to the possible kidnapping of the 10-month-old Irwin from her Kansas City, North home in the 3600 block of North Lister Avenue.
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 05:39 PM
I see there is a camper in the back yard. Cell phones could easily be dropped into the black tank thorugh toilet. They need to pull that black tank.
I wonder what the shoes mean?
They could be matching shoe prints???
wfgodot
10-10-2011, 05:40 PM
I think we're stuck here for awhile. The mod whose light was on now is the mod whose light is off. (wfgodot throws self on floor in abject grief)
Gardenlady
10-10-2011, 05:40 PM
Every time they go back to this teens house, I get an anxious feeling. Same thing happened on Saturday. I'm feeling very on edge again. :(
Cortne
10-10-2011, 05:42 PM
Anyone else recall hearing mom, in a barely audible voice while dad was speaking during the Jeanine P interview, add that she always kept her cell phones on the kitchen counter? Perhaps, I'm imagining it? Still haven't seen the transcripts from the show.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1209530440001/inside-the-desperate-search-for-lisa-irwin/?playlist_id=937116552001
Sorry it took forever. Im a wet weepy mess now. Couldnt watch anymore. Lemme know if its not in here. I will attempt to locate again. Tissue and dinner time.
gliving
10-10-2011, 05:42 PM
Does anyone else find it strange that none of Jeremy & Debbie's friends have come out to support them in the search for Lisa? Maybe they have and we just haven't heard about it. I believe Jeremy & Debbie are innocent of any involvement in Lisa's disappearance but I just find it strange that we haven't heard from or seen any of their friends.
Friends and family were at the Speedway races handing out fliers. Last night they gathered for a second vigil.
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/09/3197568/relatives-friends-of-missing-infant.html
http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/280670/3/Neighbors-hold-vigil-for-missing-baby-Lisa-Irwin
panthera
10-10-2011, 05:43 PM
Have beeped Fran the mod. Should be fixed (prayers, prayers) shortly. We shall soldier on, sorry about that, making three new threads at once at the time. Became cornfused I guess!
Thanks! I also sent her a PM.
:)
curiositycat
10-10-2011, 05:43 PM
I think we're stuck here for awhile. The mod whose light was on now is the mod whose light is off. (wfgodot throws self on floor in abject grief)
No problem, I didn't even know we were at the wrong thread, until others mentioned. I followed, blindly into the abyss...:floorlaugh:
askfornina
10-10-2011, 05:43 PM
KCTV5_5PM Liz Manninger
RT @EricKCTV5: #LisaIrwin TIPS Hotline says 1,000 calls have been made. 250 sent to detectives. 10 core detectives,30-50 check leads today.
TexasLil
10-10-2011, 05:43 PM
I see there is a camper in the back yard. Cell phones could easily be dropped into the black tank thorugh toilet. They need to pull that black tank.
I wonder what the shoes mean?
Great thoughts about the tank. RE: shoes I wonder if they found some shoe prints somewhere and were taking someone's shoes to compare. Just speculation.
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 05:44 PM
Does anyone else find it strange that none of Jeremy & Debbie's friends have come out to support them in the search for Lisa? Maybe they have and we just haven't heard about it. I believe Jeremy & Debbie are innocent of any involvement in Lisa's disappearance but I just find it strange that we haven't heard from or seen any of their friends.
The grandparents of Debbie's son have said only good things about her. I am referring to the parents of her husband from whom she has been separated for 4 years. I'd say it speaks volumes that they had nothing bad to say about her.
MissJames
10-10-2011, 05:44 PM
I really,really hope LE has a resolution in sight. I feel that maybe they are getting closer.
There are too many unsolved missing children cases. I could have sworn Kyron's case would have been resolved by now.
wfgodot
10-10-2011, 05:45 PM
Thanks! I also sent her a PM.
:)
Since Fran vanished summer_breeze appeared, so I PM'd her. Fingers crossed for luck!!
mysteriew
10-10-2011, 05:46 PM
They could be matching shoe prints???
The dude carrying shoes is wearing athletic shoes. They are searching a drainage ditch, and it has been said that it rained a little the last couple days. He could be taking the shoes to wear into the ditch in case it is muddy. Which means a close up search IMO.
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 05:46 PM
No problem, I didn't even know we were at the wrong thread, until others mentioned. I followed, blindly into the abyss...:floorlaugh:
I followed too. For a crime forum, I'm pretty clueless. :floorlaugh:
wfgodot
10-10-2011, 05:48 PM
Hurrah! summer_breeze has saved us; we're back in the proper forum. Whew!
Thanks, summer_breeze.
Great thoughts about the tank. RE: shoes I wonder if they found some shoe prints somewhere and were taking someone's shoes to compare. Just speculation.
Yes, they must have some prints to compare to. Or, maybe they found the shoes ditched somewhere in backyard. I wonder whos shoes they are. Look big!
curiositycat
10-10-2011, 05:49 PM
Are there LE at the house now?? Been waiting for the less than witty comments about their incompetence, weight and general insults. Most are oh so careful about saying anything hurtful in case family members of the victim reads here. How about some respect for the family of LE that might be reading here?
Reported to be half a dozen detectives there, and CSI crime scene unit.
yllek
10-10-2011, 05:49 PM
snipped and BBM :
When I saw your post it made me think of the vigil ... did Lisa's parents attend the vigil ?
I was wondering because I do not recall seeing any photo/video of them at the vigil ... or maybe I missed it ...
TIA !
I just scanned a bunch of articles about the vigil; about 50 neighbors attended according to sources. No mention of parents in attendance and I didn't see them in the photo bucket linked below.
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/07/3194141/community-holds-vigil-for-missing.html
Pensfan
10-10-2011, 05:49 PM
The grandparents of Debbie's son have said only good things about her. I am referring to the parents of her husband from whom she has been separated for 4 years. I'd say it speaks volumes that they had nothing bad to say about her.
I heard the reporter state that the ex-inlaws said Deborah had a chequered past and they had issues with her about seeing their grandchild.
Gardenlady
10-10-2011, 05:50 PM
Hurrah! summer_breeze has saved us; we're back in the proper forum. Whew!
Thanks, summer_breeze.
Thanks to you both! Was a gentle ride, I never noticed a thing in all the moving! :)
JeannaT
10-10-2011, 05:50 PM
Yes, they must have some prints to compare to. Or, maybe they found the shoes ditched somewhere in backyard. I wonder whos shoes they are. Look big!
I don't think if they were evidence that cop would be carrying them around with his bare hands - my guess is, they're his shoes.
I followed too. For a crime forum, I'm pretty clueless. :floorlaugh:
Are we lost? How can we be sure? If it looks like forum 13 it must be :D
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 05:51 PM
There are too many unsolved missing children cases. I could have sworn Kyron's case would have been resolved by now.
IMHO....until Terri Horman has an incentive to talk, or until they find Kyron's body, there won't be a resolution. I think LE knows who is involved but they can't make an arrest yet.
I hate to think of Baby Lisa being lost forever.
BetteDavisEyes
10-10-2011, 05:51 PM
Seems like the search has intensified within the past few hours. Let's hope there's a resolution this evening. Just read on the KMBC blog that there would be an update from LE on Monday but no time given.
panthera
10-10-2011, 05:51 PM
Every time they go back to this teens house, I get an anxious feeling. Same thing happened on Saturday. I'm feeling very on edge again. :(
I cannot think of any good purpose why a teenage male would abduct a baby. At least a woman who had recently lost her own child would give some glimmer of hope that Lisa is alive and safe.
:(
In da Middle
10-10-2011, 05:52 PM
The dude carrying shoes is wearing athletic shoes. They are searching a drainage ditch, and it has been said that it rained a little the last couple days. He could be taking the shoes to wear into the ditch in case it is muddy. Which means a close up search IMO.
This is what I am thinking. It rained this morning is all though, but is muddy in places (drainage ditch) and the grass is wet. This morning is the first rain here in weeks, though and it was very little so far.
curiositycat
10-10-2011, 05:52 PM
#LisaIrwin (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23LisaIrwin) CSI tech had a camera in backyard at family's home. He left. Detectives remain. Now searching neighbor's property.
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 05:52 PM
I don't think if they were evidence that cop would be carrying them around with his bare hands - my guess is, they're his shoes.
I didn't even notice that he was bare handing the shoes. They must be his, then.
Just K
10-10-2011, 05:53 PM
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=551&pictureid=12907
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=551&pictureid=12908
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old
This is the first time I noticed that turquoise camper...hope they've been all over that!
MissJames
10-10-2011, 05:54 PM
Any cadaver dogs?
Jaxson
10-10-2011, 05:54 PM
I don't think if they were evidence that cop would be carrying them around with his bare hands - my guess is, they're his shoes.
Yep, look like shoe covers to me...
ClueMeIn
10-10-2011, 05:55 PM
I agree Panthera. My stomach hurts. :(
panthera
10-10-2011, 05:56 PM
#LisaIrwin (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23LisaIrwin) CSI tech had a camera in backyard at family's home. He left. Detectives remain. Now searching neighbor's property.
This may be totally off, however, I believe the cell phones pinging never left the area. Even if they should be found in the neighbor's yard, without Lisa, it doesn't necessarily mean the neighbor is involved unless the area is fenced with no access from outside.
MOO
mysteriew
10-10-2011, 05:57 PM
How far away from the house is the creek or river that I have seen mentioned in the other thread?
Nana46
10-10-2011, 05:57 PM
I think we're stuck here for awhile. The mod whose light was on now is the mod whose light is off. (wfgodot throws self on floor in abject grief)
No worries mate...you done good kid!!
Now I have to cook supper dang it.
MissJames
10-10-2011, 05:58 PM
I cannot think of any good purpose why a teenage male would abduct a baby. At least a woman who had recently lost her own child would give some glimmer of hope that Lisa is alive and safe.
:(
Maybe his girlfriend recently lost a baby ? IDK . Hoping for a safe return.
:innocent:How far away from the house is the creek or river that I have seen mentioned in the other thread?
I read where is was 1.5 miles. Very accessible in short amount of time.
jjenny
10-10-2011, 05:59 PM
Maybe his girlfriend recently lost a baby ? IDK . Hoping for a safe return.
So what's they gonna do with a 10 months old? You can't pass her off as a newborn. I think parents of any such teenager would be curious where the **** a 10 months old came from.
In da Middle
10-10-2011, 05:59 PM
This may be totally off, however, I believe the cell phones pinging never left the area. Even if they should be found in the neighbor's yard, without Lisa, it doesn't necessarily mean the neighbor is involved unless the area is fenced with no access from outside.
MOO
Not fenced off. This is one of the only yards not fenced. It has 1 or 2 sides fenced but it is the neighbors' fence. IF they are looking at pings, this yard is merely feet from the I's.
krimekat
10-10-2011, 06:00 PM
I heard the reporter state that the ex-inlaws said Deborah had a chequered past and they had issues with her about seeing their grandchild.
Link please, supporting this as we've read the exact opposite about the ex-inlaws. Thanks! (rumor control again)
Bradley and her husband Sean Bradley separated four years ago, but never got divorced, they say. The family of Mr Bradley, who is currently away serving in the Army, said that their daughter-in-law was a good person who they do not think would be capable of harming a child.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047200/Lisa-Irwin-missing-Mother-Deborah-Bradley-married-man.html#ixzz1aQ2gAJ5l
Inspector Gidget
10-10-2011, 06:00 PM
I just scanned a bunch of articles about the vigil; about 50 neighbors attended according to sources. No mention of parents in attendance and I didn't see them in the photo bucket linked below.
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/07/3194141/community-holds-vigil-for-missing.html
If not,I wonder why they wouldn't be there.This is for their pumpkin pie
SilkySifaka
10-10-2011, 06:01 PM
So what's they gonna do with a 10 months old? You can't pass her off as a newborn. I think parents of any such teenager would be curious where the **** a 10 months old came from.
I think the baby was going to be treated like they often treat cats and dogs...an excuse to murder or harm.
Motivation:
1. Sexual perversion
2. Harm the family for a perceived slight
3. Wish to kill. Who is less able to fight back than a baby
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 06:01 PM
I heard the reporter state that the ex-inlaws said Deborah had a chequered past and they had issues with her about seeing their grandchild.
I thought that report was sort of debunked as an exaggeration.:waitasec:
BetteDavisEyes
10-10-2011, 06:01 PM
Vinnie Politan covering Lisa story on HLN now.
panthera
10-10-2011, 06:02 PM
Maybe his girlfriend recently lost a baby ? IDK . Hoping for a safe return.
How old is this kid or is he a teenage-adult?
curiositycat
10-10-2011, 06:02 PM
This may be totally off, however, I believe the cell phones pinging never left the area. Even if they should be found in the neighbor's yard, without Lisa, it doesn't necessarily mean the neighbor is involved unless the area is fenced with no access from outside.
MOO
That's one thing, and then the other is that we do not know if that is the home of the teenager. I have a hunch it belongs to her friend, the neighbor whose kids were watching a movie? We saw teenagers being interviewed there, but still in the dark as to if the "teenager" in question is a male or female. Or if that is where the teenager lives.
Could it be that one of the cellphones was lost and that then they took all three to make it look as if the abductor took them, that's if family is involved...:waitasec:
That way when someone said, "Where's my cellphone?" Someone could say, "The kidnapper took them."
All speculation, JMOO
stilettos
10-10-2011, 06:02 PM
All I know is every single time they mention the teenager my stomach gets tied in knots....I really want them to find this baby....soon.
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 06:03 PM
If not,I wonder why they wouldn't be there.This is for their pumpkin pie
Maybe the parents are aware of something the general public is not.
jjenny
10-10-2011, 06:03 PM
I think the baby was going to be treated like they often treat cats and dogs...an excuse to murder or harm.
Motivation:
1. Sexual perversion
2. Harm the family for a perceived slight
3. Wish to kill. Who is less able to fight back than a baby
The child can still be alive even if pedophile took her. I recall a case where pedophile took a child and kept her in his attic. With duct tape on her. They found her alive about a week after kidnapping.
panthera
10-10-2011, 06:03 PM
So what's they gonna do with a 10 months old? You can't pass her off as a newborn. I think parents of any such teenager would be curious where the **** a 10 months old came from.
As I said.......no good purpose.
:(
I see absolutely no good outcome at all if a male teen took that baby.
He would be scared enough now to tell if someone got him to do it for them.
Why would a male teen steal a baby girl? Certainly for no good reason.
How could a teen keep this baby healthy and safe this long? HE couldn't.
One thing that comes to mind is if one or boh parents got the teen help to get rid of the baby after an accidental death. But, I think they teen would have broke by now.
Perhaps he was in love with mother? Far fetched but is possible.
I dunno. I just don't feel it is the teen for some reason.
loveandhugs
10-10-2011, 06:04 PM
All I know is every single time they mention the teenager my stomach gets tied in knots....I really want them to find this baby....soon.
Could someone tell me about the teen? How does he fit into all of this?
angeleleven
10-10-2011, 06:05 PM
Body language expert on HLN right now.
In da Middle
10-10-2011, 06:05 PM
How far away from the house is the creek or river that I have seen mentioned in the other thread?
The drainage ditch that runs behind I's house drains into the creek. The ditch runs for approx 1 block behind the houses when it joins the creek. The creek runs along the east side of the wooded area. It is only maybe 4-6 blocks to the river from where the ditch and creek meet.
The creek is basically just run-off with a few natural springs feeding it. It is mostly only ankle high with a few pockets that might be waist high. You are not really going to hide anything in the creek. It is also running clear right now because of no rain.
SilkySifaka
10-10-2011, 06:06 PM
The child can still be alive even if pedophile took her. I recall a case where pedophile took a child and kept her in his attic. With duct tape on her. They found her alive about a week after kidnapping.
Yes it is possible..but a week is a long time.
epiphany
10-10-2011, 06:06 PM
HLN
Vinnie Politan Live
Ed L., CNN Correspondent:
focusing attention in creek area behind t home; continuing for t last 2-3 days-attention behind the house (creek there)
jjenny
10-10-2011, 06:06 PM
Could someone tell me about the teen? How does he fit into all of this?
All we know is that some teenager was asked to provide DNA and had access code to the garage of Lisa's house.
Just K
10-10-2011, 06:07 PM
If this teenager is a known kid from a house with "issues", as our local states, then what better yard to throw incriminating evidence into. Casting doubt toward or onto a known trouble spot is an easy solution.
Does anyone know if the teen's family is cooperating?
jjenny
10-10-2011, 06:08 PM
Yes it is possible..but a week is a long time.
Well in the case I talked about the child was found alive. She was slightly older, though. The pedophile was keeping her in the attic and police figured it out and found the child still alive. So pedophiles don't all kill the kids right away.
JeannaT
10-10-2011, 06:08 PM
Does anyone know if the teen's family is cooperating?
They were inside the home for awhile this afternoon, so it sounds like yes.
luvbeaches
10-10-2011, 06:08 PM
On the noon news it was mentioned that LE had searched an area in Edwardsville. I knew exactly where they were because we have cut through that back area to go to Mac's (a hole-in-the-wall restaurant but they have the best food and the nicest servers). Anyway, it's mostly warehouses, etc, and there's even a sand plant. This all backs up to the river, which I don't think they showed on the news report.
Once you round the bend from Woodend, it's all residential. It goes from being really deserted to really populated pretty quickly. I've never noticed very many cars, if any, in that parking lot before.
Here's a link to where I was today.
http://www.kansasriver.org/river-access/river-map/edwardsville
There's a little area that's right near where you make the turn to head north on 9th. I never really knew what was there, so I thought I'd poke around.
There's a boat ramp which goes right into the river. There's a parking lot - pretty good-sized with yards from the houses on the north side coming right up to one side of the parking lot. There's several picnic tables and a porta-potty.
There was also a road which led to the river, but I didn't have the nerve to drive that direction. I didn't know if there was a place to turn around or not, and I have no clue what's down there but I am basically a big chicken so I skipped that part.
The river is really down. It's been raging all summer. I even noticed that you could walk pretty much all the way across the river on the east side of 435. Water One has an intake area and they divert water in this area. If anything goes in the river upstream, there's a good chance, if the water level is low, of getting hung up on this concrete/stone thing in the river.
You can move the photo around and see this on the map. There's a little red triangle next to this man-made dam.
Since I've never been on Holiday Drive in front of the dump, I thought I'd poke around. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. The dump is just s tad southeast and across the river from Edwardsville and where LE was searching. I don't think they found anything, but it was mentioned on another thread that Jeremy (is that his name?) may have worked in Edwardsville at one time.
And the dredge is gone. I looked for it but it's not there anymore.
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 06:09 PM
I see absolutely no good outcome at all if a male teen took that baby.
He would be scared enough now to tell if someone got him to do it for them.
Why would a male teen steal a baby girl? Certainly for no good reason.
How could a teen keep this baby healthy and safe this long? HE couldn't.
One thing that comes to mind is if one or boh parents got the teen help to get rid of the baby after an accidental death. But, I think they teen would have broke by now.
Perhaps he was in love with mother? Far fetched but is possible.
I dunno. I just don't feel it is the teen for some reason.
I thought of that one too.
epiphany
10-10-2011, 06:10 PM
Vinnie P Live
Jeanine Driver, Body Lang Expert: we r seeing genuine sadness, but doesn't mean she isn't involved with daughter's disappearance; seeing a lot of shoulder shrugs (mom), [Mom] doesn't even say "her brothers," "trying" means fail-[word keeps] coming up a lot in both their explanations...
captivagrl
10-10-2011, 06:10 PM
Anyone know if N. Grace will be interviewing anyone we haven't heard from yet? Friends, family, neighbors... I'm not a fan but sometimes she manages to secure interesting interviews.
curiositycat
10-10-2011, 06:12 PM
Anyone know if N. Grace will be interviewing anyone we haven't heard from yet? Friends, family, neighbors... I'm not a fan but sometimes she manages to secure interesting interviews.
I don't think so because she is on dancing with the stars tonight.
Just K
10-10-2011, 06:13 PM
The drainage ditch that runs behind I's house drains into the creek. The ditch runs for approx 1 block behind the houses when it joins the creek. The creek runs along the east side of the wooded area. It is only maybe 4-6 blocks to the river from where the ditch and creek meet.
The creek is basically just run-off with a few natural springs feeding it. It is mostly only ankle high with a few pockets that might be waist high. You are not really going to hide anything in the creek. It is also running clear right now because of no rain.
How hard would it be to walk down the drainage ditch through the creek to where it meets the river? Is this teens house catty corner to the Irwin's...does part of the property back up against their's?
I thought of that one too.
Teen-DNA- could teen be the father? Not what i believe, but a possible scenario for teen taking baby.
Imo
BetteDavisEyes
10-10-2011, 06:13 PM
Anyone know if N. Grace will be interviewing anyone we haven't heard from yet? Friends, family, neighbors... I'm not a fan but sometimes she manages to secure interesting interviews.
NG will be on DWTS during her HLN show, but presumably someone will fill in for her.
MissJames
10-10-2011, 06:13 PM
So what's they gonna do with a 10 months old? You can't pass her off as a newborn. I think parents of any such teenager would be curious where the **** a 10 months old came from.
Oh,I don't believe it,but there are some odd birds out there who don't think everything through .Teens and tweens ,especially.
TxLady2
10-10-2011, 06:13 PM
I can't see a teenage boy being interested in kidnapping a 10 month old baby and certainly not keeping her alive for a week. I sure don't see one having a sexual motivation, maybe an older child, but a baby wears diapers and often has smelly diapers. Not very many teen boys would dream of handling a dirty diaper.
cleo612
10-10-2011, 06:14 PM
I am way, way behind due to being sick and trying to care for a sick grandbaby on top of it all.
I missed about 35 pages of the last thread and am just getting started reading here.
Has there been anything of interest happen today?
Would someone be so kind as to help fill me in, please?
mysteriew
10-10-2011, 06:14 PM
:innocent:
I read where is was 1.5 miles. Very accessible in short amount of time.
That is the only thing that I can think of that they aren't doing, and I don't even know if they aren't. That water should be checked. They could have checked it and the reporters didn't catch on. Or it could be moving so fast or be so silted up that divers would be unable to see anything.
Pensfan
10-10-2011, 06:14 PM
Link please, supporting this as we've read the exact opposite about the ex-inlaws. Thanks! (rumor control again)
Bradley and her husband Sean Bradley separated four years ago, but never got divorced, they say. The family of Mr Bradley, who is currently away serving in the Army, said that their daughter-in-law was a good person who they do not think would be capable of harming a child.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2047200/Lisa-Irwin-missing-Mother-Deborah-Bradley-married-man.html#ixzz1aQ2gAJ5l
This is not a rumor.
Previously this information was provided (see first link below) on 10-8-2011. Many other people on Websleuths watched and heard this information. It was even discussed on Websleuths many times. This is the original link that is now changed.
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-bradleys-family-talks-about-past-20111008,0,1316565.story
The link above was updated yesterday and the original story is no longer there. Below is one page on Websleuths where the "chequered/checkered past" comment by the ex-inlaws was discussed. The ex-inlaws also stated that they had issues with Deborah and visiting their grandson, but the reporter did not elaborate on this.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150933&page=5
Ellebelle
10-10-2011, 06:15 PM
The grandparents of Debbie's son have said only good things about her. I am referring to the parents of her husband from whom she has been separated for 4 years. I'd say it speaks volumes that they had nothing bad to say about her.
While I would be honest and tell all to police, I wouldn't say anything publicly to news media about my grandsons mom but that's because that is their mom. Trust me, there's plenty I could say!
That said I wish Baby Lisa would be found and whomever has taken her is dealt with accordingly!
:fence:
epiphany
10-10-2011, 06:15 PM
Damn, I wish Mom would use Baby Lisa's name! I believe I have heard her refer to Baby Lisa by name only once or twice.
Tuffy
10-10-2011, 06:16 PM
I can't see a teenage boy being interested in kidnapping a 10 month old baby and certainly not keeping her alive for a week. I sure don't see one having a sexual motivation, maybe an older child, but a baby wears diapers and often has smelly diapers. Not very many teen boys would dream of handling a dirty diaper.
I don't think it's the case here, but very young children have been molested. I've read cases here on WS of babies, as young as a few weeks old that have been sexually molested.
wfgodot
10-10-2011, 06:16 PM
I am way, way behind due to being sick and trying to care for a sick grandbaby on top of it all.
I missed about 35 pages of the last thread and am just getting started reading here.
Has there been anything of interest happen today?
Would someone be so kind as to help fill me in, please?
Astonishingly, not a lot of real significance has happened. LE back at Irwin place searching in and around - neighbor's yard also said to have been searched, plus a drainage ditch. The lowlight was when wfgodot made a new thread and put it in the "located" forum incorrectly.
BetteDavisEyes
10-10-2011, 06:16 PM
Damn, I wish Mom would use Baby Lisa's name! I believe I have heard her refer to Baby Lisa by name only once or twice.
Body Language specialist on HLN now just mentioned this. Troublesome for me, too.
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 06:18 PM
Teen-DNA- could teen be the father? Not what i believe, but a possible scenario for teen taking baby.
Imo
That was one of the first things that went through my head when the teen first came into the mix.
MissJames
10-10-2011, 06:19 PM
Does anyone remember a case not that long ago when a missing baby was found under the bed of mom's friend ,in a box. Baby was alive. I'm trying to remember the circumstances,but mom was in on it ,IIRC.
panthera
10-10-2011, 06:19 PM
Body Language specialist on HLN now just mentioned this. Troublesome for me, too.
She just gave an excellent analysis of JI; and the "extra information" regarding the missing cell phones.
MOO
In da Middle
10-10-2011, 06:19 PM
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by mck16 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
It sure looks like the one from the other day. jmo
Yes, it's next door.(3404)
Bringing this over from closed thread before everybody get carried away with wrong info.
It is not next door to the I's and it is not 3404 and 3404 is not next door to the I's house. whew! I think that covers it. and NO I am not publishing the address # it is. You all can figure it out, I know you can.
epiphany
10-10-2011, 06:19 PM
Vinnie P: father sounds heartbroken
Body Language Expert: difference between Mom and Dad is pretty big; i'm looking at micro expressions-not seeing "grief" with father; "obvious"---be suspicious when hear [in statements-father used]
JeannaT
10-10-2011, 06:20 PM
That was one of the first things that went through my head when the teen first came into the mix.
I thought that too, kind of fleetingly. I've been gone this weekend - has MSM id'd the teen as a boy? When I left Saturday it was unclear the gender.
I know we're not supposed to sleuth minors except what's put out in MSM, so I'm not trying to get anyone to break the rules here, just wondering if MSM has stated the gender.
TIA
marge_rita
10-10-2011, 06:21 PM
Is this guy carrying a pair of shoes to the back of the house?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=551&pictureid=12905
http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old
Sure looks like it. Maybe he's checking someone's shoeprints.
imo
Amster
10-10-2011, 06:21 PM
Has this teen been ID'd by LE?? If not, how do we know he/she lives in the house that has been searched?? Is that home the only one in the neighborhood where a teen lives?? How unfair to insinuate or flat out say that the teen some are saying is "troubled" lives there! What if that info is wrong??
Tuffy
10-10-2011, 06:21 PM
Does anyone remember a case not that long ago when a missing baby was found under the bed of mom's friend ,in a box. Baby was alive. I'm trying to remember the circumstances,but mom was in on it ,IIRC.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2009/11/05/baby-sitter-mom-charged-disappearance-florida-infant-alive/
Last week, baby sitter Susan Elizabeth Baker asked the infant's mother Chrystina Lynn Mercer to give her custody and Mercer agreed, Washington County Sheriff Bobby Haddock said.
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2009/11/05/baby-sitter-mom-charged-disappearance-florida-infant-alive/#ixzz1aQ7FGkTH
In da Middle
10-10-2011, 06:21 PM
How hard would it be to walk down the drainage ditch through the creek to where it meets the river? Is this teens house catty corner to the Irwin's...does part of the property back up against their's?
The ditch is pretty brushy, but I guess it is possible, you know, "where there is the will there is a way" kind of thing. It is very possible , and not very hard, to walk to the river from the creek though.
BetteDavisEyes
10-10-2011, 06:23 PM
As I've read here today and watched various interviews, commentary, etc., I am finding myself in a state of heightened anxiety - as if something's about to break shortly. jmo
SilkySifaka
10-10-2011, 06:24 PM
I thought that too, kind of fleetingly. I've been gone this weekend - has MSM id'd the teen as a boy? When I left Saturday it was unclear the gender.
I know we're not supposed to sleuth minors except what's put out in MSM, so I'm not trying to get anyone to break the rules here, just wondering if MSM has stated the gender.
TIA
grandmaj said the gender of the teen could be said by the verified local
marge_rita
10-10-2011, 06:24 PM
#LisaIrwin (http://twitter.com/#%21/search?q=%23LisaIrwin) CSI tech had a camera in backyard at family's home. He left. Detectives remain. Now searching neighbor's property.
Sure wish we knew what actual lead led the CSI tech to the families yard and neighbor's property.
imo
Marah
10-10-2011, 06:26 PM
I was thinking maybe the teen was abusing one of the boys and threatened to harm baby if he told, but that doesn't really fit with anything.
epiphany
10-10-2011, 06:27 PM
Vinnie P: ...cell phones taken?
Ed L, CNN Correspondent: missing is my understanding
sorrell skye
10-10-2011, 06:27 PM
I don't think if they were evidence that cop would be carrying them around with his bare hands - my guess is, they're his shoes.
Exactly - if the shoes were potential evidence, they would have been bagged & the officer would have been wearing gloves as he carried them. In addition, there would have likely been a 2nd officer accompanying him in order to maintain chain of evidence protocol.
krimekat
10-10-2011, 06:27 PM
Damn, I wish Mom would use Baby Lisa's name! I believe I have heard her refer to Baby Lisa by name only once or twice.
we Southerners tried to explain many posts back why this happens -- common reflection .
marge_rita
10-10-2011, 06:27 PM
HLN
Vinnie Politan Live
Ed L., CNN Correspondent:
focusing attention in creek area behind t home; continuing for t last 2-3 days-attention behind the house (creek there)
Reading that makes me ill. I hope baby Lisa is found alive and well.
imo
In da Middle
10-10-2011, 06:27 PM
Statement analysis says, that when parents don't use the child's name it's an indication of abuse.
I am very certain that these children were NOT abused, but that is my personal opinion and most around here.
Dr. Know?
10-10-2011, 06:28 PM
Heycameraman HC
Investigators have now left the #lisairwin home. No comment if they found anything.
http://twitter.com/#!/Heycameraman
Police search woody area behind neighbors home in the #LisaIrwin case.
http://www.heycameraman.net/?p=1407
cleo612
10-10-2011, 06:29 PM
Does anyone remember a case not that long ago when a missing baby was found under the bed of mom's friend ,in a box. Baby was alive. I'm trying to remember the circumstances,but mom was in on it ,IIRC.
That was Shannon Dietrich. Her father's aunt was the one who had the baby. I called the local sheriff to let them know that the aunt had a past history of being suspected in the disappearance of her own step-son (who has never been found). Within hours, baby Shannon was found and saved from harm.
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 06:29 PM
Statement analysis says, that when parents don't use the child's name it's an indication of abuse.
Not directed at you...just a general statement.
Well...when my children were babies....I referred to them as "the baby" a lot. Probably as much or more than I used their names. I can assure you that they were never abused. I love them with ever fiber of my being, and the term "the baby" was never impersonal to me, or intended to distance myself from my child.
There are exceptions to everything, and without knowing Debbie, I would not condemn her for that.
JeannaT
10-10-2011, 06:29 PM
I am very certain that these children were NOT abused, but that is my personal opinion and most around here.
I completely agree.
A lot of people don't refer to their babies by name, but call them "the baby". Especially when it's not the first. They have their older children, and "the baby".
In da Middle
10-10-2011, 06:30 PM
Has this teen been ID'd by LE?? If not, how do we know he/she lives in the house that has been searched?? Is that home the only one in the neighborhood where a teen lives?? How unfair to insinuate or flat out say that the teen some are saying is "troubled" lives there! What if that info is wrong??
Again you guys are misreading things. Nobody said the 'teen' is troubled at all. Only that there are 'issues' in the neighborhood with this house. A teen lives there that was questioned by LE and they are looking at this backyard.
Dr. Know?
10-10-2011, 06:31 PM
KCPhotog_Justin Justin Schmidt
About a half dozen investigators just left the #LisaIrwin home, didn't see any evidence being taken with them.
http://twitter.com/#!/KCPhotog_Justin
Flossie JMO
10-10-2011, 06:33 PM
Today, 04:54 PM
DLT88
Registered User Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 293
Quote:
When I see that window, I'm wondering if a woman about 110 pounds got through there. That window looks very accessible to me. I could easily put my back to the house and scoot my butt partially on that brick ledge. And then just swing one leg in and then the other and not make a sound. People have actually used me a lot when they've locked themselves out and need someone to get through an open space to go inside and unlock the front door.
One speculation could be that a woman that size could have done the abduction. They are only using men for the recreation and that might not be accurate as far as noise level and ease or difficulty getting through the window.
I agree, it wouldn't be difficult imo. When my doorknob fell off I would enter and exit through my front window, or my dog door. jme
MissJames
10-10-2011, 06:35 PM
That was Shannon Dietrich. Her father's aunt was the one who had the baby. I called the local sheriff to let them know that the aunt had a past history of being suspected in the disappearance of her own step-son (who has never been found). Within hours, baby Shannon was found and saved from harm.
How did she get the baby? And wasn't it an older baby,not a newborn?
Kudos to you!
JeannaT
10-10-2011, 06:35 PM
I agree, it wouldn't be difficult imo. When my doorknob fell off I would enter and exit through my front window, or my dog door. jme
Okay, sometimes you just need a little levity. I actually laughed out loud picturing a full grown woman coming into her home, over and over, (like with groceries and stuff) through the doggy door, because the front doorknob had fallen off. ;D
Tuffy
10-10-2011, 06:35 PM
Not directed at you...just a general statement.
Well...when my children were babies....I referred to them as "the baby" a lot. Probably as much or more than I used their names. I can assure you that they were never abused. I love them with ever fiber of my being, and the term "the baby" was never impersonal to me, or intended to distance myself from my child.
There are exceptions to everything, and without knowing Debbie, I would not condemn her for that.
I was just referring to parents when they are giving statement about a missing child. Sorry, I had a statement analysis explanation, but it came from a blog. When parents of missing children don't use the child's name when speaking of them, or use the name less than 10% of the time, it's said to be an indication of abuse.
I am thinking that if the parents abused Lisa that it may have been a shaken baby type incident, because there isn't reason to believe she had been abused long term.
Sorry for the confusion, I just hastily chopped my original post because I couldn't use the source that I had. I'll try to link to another site.
PlainJaneDoe
10-10-2011, 06:35 PM
In the previous thread, someone had speculated that the glass might be glass bottles used for evidence collection. I don't work in a crime lab, just a research lab, but I can tell you that if we have a choice between glass and some other material, we always choose the other. ;) we live by the rule that "if it can be broken, it will be." :innocent:
Re:the baby monitor being turned off or not...when I was doing eletrophysiology with multiple-channel amps and speakers, if we had a mismatch between the channels (eg., amp set to channel 1 and spkr set to ch2), we would get static, as others have mentioned happens with baby monitors. I have only worked with 2 systems, but they both worked this way, and I ASSumed that it was a rule in electronics or audio. If so, maybe the abductor wouldn't need to be familiar with baby monitors per se, just with electronics or audio systems in general.
MizStery
10-10-2011, 06:36 PM
Does anyone remember a case not that long ago when a missing baby was found under the bed of mom's friend ,in a box. Baby was alive. I'm trying to remember the circumstances,but mom was in on it ,IIRC.
Are you thinking of Shannon Matthews in the UK? This happened the spring of 2008.
The mystery surrounded the 24-day abduction of British nine-year-old Shannon Matthews which deepened after claims that her mother was having an affair with the man suspected of kidnapping her.
The girl's disappearence sparked a major search. She was found hidden in a box at the base of a bed at a house less than two kilometres from her family home.
After she was rescued her mother wanted her back. Nine year old Shannon who was placed in a foster home was happy in her new home and adored the kitten police gave her as comfort after her ordeal.
tlcya
10-10-2011, 06:36 PM
I completely agree.
A lot of people don't refer to their babies by name, but call them "the baby". Especially when it's not the first. They have their older children, and "the baby".
agreed. My husband refers to our son as "the boy" or "son" and our daughter as "daughter".
Very rarely does he use their given names when conversing with others or with me. Our children are well loved and their daddy dotes on them, particularly "daughter" who is also sometimes "princess" and "queenie"
marge_rita
10-10-2011, 06:37 PM
Statement analysis says, that when parents don't use the child's name it's an indication of abuse.
Wondered if the mom and dad would ever call Lisa by her name. I'm not saying I think Lisa was abused but not saying the child's name distances the parents.
imo
cleo612
10-10-2011, 06:38 PM
How did she get the baby? And wasn't it an older baby,not a newborn?
Kudos to you!
She went into the family's home in the middle of the night and took the baby. I think Shannon was around 7 or 8 months old (my memory does not work well when I am sick, so I cannot remember precisely).
Baby Shannon was found under the aunt's bed in a small wooden trunk that had a few holes drilled in it for air. Her diaper had not been changed in approximately 12 hours. There was a box of baking soda inside the box in an attempt to hide or disguise any unsavory smells coming from within.
Flossie JMO
10-10-2011, 06:39 PM
Okay, sometimes you just need a little levity. I actually laughed out loud picturing a full grown woman coming into her home, over and over, (like with groceries and stuff) through the doggy door, because the front doorknob had fallen off. ;D
:D I am sure my neighbors laughed too
uvamerica
10-10-2011, 06:39 PM
I heard the reporter state that the ex-inlaws said Deborah had a chequered past and they had issues with her about seeing their grandchild.
(trying to find link)
I remember this, the reporter said more to come about Deborah's chequered past, and eluded that the parents had a lot to say that wasn't good about Deborah. But then never heard anymore a/b it, and that was days ago..:waitasec:
mamamia54
10-10-2011, 06:42 PM
How far is this house that they keep checking on with the redish shutters? The one where this neighbor kid is suppose to live.
Cortne
10-10-2011, 06:42 PM
Okay, sometimes you just need a little levity. I actually laughed out loud picturing a full grown woman coming into her home, over and over, (like with groceries and stuff) through the doggy door, because the front doorknob had fallen off. ;D
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
MissJames
10-10-2011, 06:42 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2009/11/05/baby-sitter-mom-charged-disappearance-florida-infant-alive/
That's it. Thanks.
The reason I brought it up is because so many posters have questioned what someone (teen or any other abductor ) would do with a ten month old baby.
Not everyone thinks it through. Case in point. How did mom and the babysitter think they would get away with it? :crazy:
Dr. Know?
10-10-2011, 06:43 PM
#BabyLisa Candles and Teddy Bears at the corner of 37th and N Lister. #LisaIrwin
http://posterous.com/getfile/files.posterous.com/heycameraman/VESNIL7kpn8QaEJJSRzZ2B3QFCYhmRIfByprfC4BEq2zIPQ3BL zhrJnZyfR5/photo.jpg.scaled.500.jpg
http://www.heycameraman.net/?p=1408
BetteDavisEyes
10-10-2011, 06:43 PM
Okay, sometimes you just need a little levity. I actually laughed out loud picturing a full grown woman coming into her home, over and over, (like with groceries and stuff) through the doggy door, because the front doorknob had fallen off. ;D
When I watched the reenactment video today, I chuckled at the guy who went in as if he were diving into a pool. It reminded me of a time when my mom got locked out of the house and had one of my brothers go through the milk-chute to open the door :D The steps from the kitchen to the landing (side door, basement) were outside the milk-chute, and my brother always remembered how he almost fell down the steps as he emerged head first from the small aperture.
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 06:43 PM
I was just referring to parents when they are giving statement about a missing child. Sorry, I had a statement analysis explanation, but it came from a blog. When parents of missing children don't use the child's name when speaking of them, or use the name less than 10% of the time, it's said to be an indication of abuse.
I am thinking that if the parents abused Lisa that it may have been a shaken baby type incident, because there isn't reason to believe she had been abused long term.
Sorry for the confusion, I just hastily chopped my original post because I couldn't use the source that I had. I'll try to link to another site.
I was taking issue with the statement analysis....not with you for posting it.
In Debbie's position....I would still call my child "the baby" because that's my way of speaking. To me it is an endearment, and I am Southern, so it's very common down here. "The baby" and "my baby" are used by everyone.
I think these types of analysis are just too narrow at times.
Also, iirc, Lisa was the name of DB's deceased mother. That could possibly be why she doesn't refer to her name as often.
I never refer to my kids by their names and the baby is always "the baby". Maybe it's a southern thing, lol
[QUOTE=Amster;7213289]Has this teen been ID'd by LE?? If not, how do we know he/she lives in the house that has been searched?? Is that home the only one in the neighborhood where a teen lives?? How unfair to insinuate or flat out say that the teen some are saying is "troubled" lives there! What if that info is wrong??[/
Amster- I have been on this forum for a short time and felt uncomfortable with things posted, but soon I realized that the majority of posters here are trying to help. Most don't know anyone involved in the case and when information is presented they weigh it all carefully, without the burden of preconceived opinions of the people involved. Plus we are all human so we realize that someone's 'troubled' could be someone else's 'great' when describing a kid. And those two very different views, IMO, make the analysis of evidence more thorough.
Flossie JMO
10-10-2011, 06:45 PM
(trying to find link)
I remember this, the reporter said more to come about Deborah's chequered past, and eluded that the parents had a lot to say that wasn't good about Deborah. But then never heard anymore a/b it, and that was days ago..:waitasec:
I can't view this link for some reason, but is apparently about the parents' "past" http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-bradleys-family-talks-about-past-20111008,0,1316565.story
Just K
10-10-2011, 06:45 PM
Again you guys are misreading things. Nobody said the 'teen' is troubled at all. Only that there are 'issues' in the neighborhood with this house. A teen lives there that was questioned by LE and they are looking at this backyard.
Folks need to read more carefully as no one has said anything about this specific teen.
Here are the facts:
A teen was visiting the Irwin home on Monday.
That teen was questioned
A DNA sample was taken from that teen
The teen lives in the home that is currently being searched.
A verified local has told us that there are known "issues" at that home.
That is all we know and it has been reported on. My previous post was suggesting that it would be very convenient to dump evidence near the property that is known to have "issues, within the neighborhood."
tlcya
10-10-2011, 06:46 PM
(trying to find link)
I remember this, the reporter said more to come about Deborah's chequered past, and eluded that the parents had a lot to say that wasn't good about Deborah. But then never heard anymore a/b it, and that was days ago..:waitasec:
I know this is not the link you are looking for. If I remember, that checkered past thing was a teaser on a news station and our members here made sure to watch (as you can imagine) and the only thing that seemed to be checkered about it was that she was still married to her son's father and some minor traffic violations. The members who watched were mightily let down because based on the teaser, we all thought something substantive was coming.
Anyway, this link is Deborah's exes family members comments (see the video) regarding what they think of Deborah and this situation.
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-bradleys-family-talks-about-past-20111008,0,1316565.story
belimom
10-10-2011, 06:46 PM
Folks need to read more carefully as no one has said anything about this specific teen.
Here are the facts:
A teen was visiting the Irwin home on Monday.
That teen was questioned
A DNA sample was taken from that teen
The teen lives in the home that is currently being searched.
A verified local has told us that there are known "issues" at that home.
That is all we know and it has been reported on. My previous post was suggesting that it would be very convenient to dump evidence near the property that is known to have "issues, within the neighborhood."
IIRC, it was said that there was more than one teen living in that home. Is that correct? I was just wondering if that is what led to the confusion of he vs she. They could both live in the same home.
Flossie JMO
10-10-2011, 06:46 PM
I was taking issue with the statement analysis....not with you for posting it.
In Debbie's position....I would still call my child "the baby" because that's my way of speaking. To me it is an endearment, and I am Southern, so it's very common down here. "The baby" and "my baby" are used by everyone.
I think these types of analysis are just too narrow at times.
ita, and bbm jmo it's nonsense, there is a man who is all over missing children cases posting a lot of terrible things jmo
MissJames
10-10-2011, 06:47 PM
Are you thinking of Shannon Matthews in the UK? This happened the spring of 2008.
The mystery surrounded the 24-day abduction of British nine-year-old Shannon Matthews which deepened after claims that her mother was having an affair with the man suspected of kidnapping her.
The girl's disappearence sparked a major search. She was found hidden in a box at the base of a bed at a house less than two kilometres from her family home.
After she was rescued her mother wanted her back. Nine year old Shannon who was placed in a foster home was happy in her new home and adored the kitten police gave her as comfort after her ordeal.
It was a baby Shannon. How freaky is that ? same name and in a box !
luvbeaches
10-10-2011, 06:47 PM
Astonishingly, not a lot of real significance has happened. LE back at Irwin place searching in and around - neighbor's yard also said to have been searched, plus a drainage ditch. The lowlight was when wfgodot made a new thread and put it in the "located" forum incorrectly.
At least you tried! The good thought was there. I stopped posting on the one thread because I knew it was way up there in posts and would shut down soon.
I am going to watch the 6:00 news, but I don't think much is going on with this case. At least not that media is aware of.
Soulmagent
10-10-2011, 06:48 PM
That's kind of the idea regarding statement analysis. A parent talking about a child that is missing, and not using the child's name distances them from the child. If they had done something to hurt the child, they might want to distance themselves.
I dont believe that, I am all about my baby and he is 6. I am always, when my baby gets home, when your brother is finished..etc.. His name is his formal name but not what I use very often.
jjenny
10-10-2011, 06:48 PM
That's it. Thanks.
The reason I brought it up is because so many posters have questioned what someone (teen or any other abductor ) would do with a ten month old baby.
Not everyone thinks it through. Case in point. How did mom and the babysitter think they would get away with it? :crazy:
In case of a babysitter her step son went missing and was never found. So...
PlainJaneDoe
10-10-2011, 06:50 PM
There are 102 guests viewing Lisa's thread now! Please consider joining us. :)
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1211388241001/impasse-in-search-for-lisa-irwin/?playlist_id=86856
"dead end" :(
sorrell skye
10-10-2011, 06:50 PM
Damn, I wish Mom would use Baby Lisa's name! I believe I have heard her refer to Baby Lisa by name only once or twice.
IMO, too much emphasis is placed on Proper Name usage (or the lack thereof).
Typically, when someone is talking about a family member to those who don't personally know that family member, they will refer to the family member as "my daughter" or "my son" or "my sister" or "my brother", or "she" or "he", or "her" or "him", etc. etc., rather than refer to that person by their name.
Conversely, when someone is discussing a family member with someone who is acquainted with that person, they will typically refer to them by their given name.
And then there are those who will refer to their family members by their given names from the minute you meet them.
One way or the other, I don't see it as a red flag or an indicator of anything nefarious.
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 06:52 PM
I can't view this link for some reason, but is apparently about the parents' "past" http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-bradleys-family-talks-about-past-20111008,0,1316565.story
All that came from that was that Debbie became pregnant as a teen, is still legally married to her first husband,the father of her son, but they have been separated for 4 years.
If it is scandalous for Debbie then it is scandalous for her legal husband as well....IMHO.
marge_rita
10-10-2011, 06:52 PM
I dont believe that, I am all about my baby and he is 6. I am always, when my baby gets home, when your brother is finished..etc.. His name is his formal name but not what I use very often.
I bet you'd call your child by name if he was missing. Everyday talk at home is one thing :) but when a child is missing, I'm of the opinion the child's name should be said.
stilettos
10-10-2011, 06:53 PM
IMO, too much emphasis is placed on Proper Name usage (or the lack thereof).
Typically, when someone is talking about a family member to those who don't personally know that family member, they will refer to the family member as "my daughter" or "my son" or "my sister" or "my brother", or "she" or "he", or "her" or "him", etc. etc., rather than refer to that person by their name.
Conversely, when someone is discussing a family member with someone who is acquainted with that person, they will typically refer to them by their given name.
I don't see it as a red flag or an indicator of anything nefarious.
Agreed...I always use My husband, My daughter, My sister...etc and so on when referring to them with another person. My husband and My daughter...well to me those are terms of endearment and proud possessive...as in "my" "mine"...every single one of my children are "mine" and I am proud to say so! Just my own Southern Opinion.
ETA - ok...I have never shared this but due to statements in posts I am going to...my daughter was abducted by her bioDad...I always stated, "My daughter, or my baby has been abducted when speaking with LE or others. (DD is 29 now...she was located when very young and is married and happy)
BetteDavisEyes
10-10-2011, 06:53 PM
IMO, too much emphasis is placed on Proper Name usage (or the lack thereof).
Typically, when someone is talking about a family member to those who don't personally know that family member, they will refer to the family member as "my daughter" or "my son" or "my sister" or "my brother", or "she" or "he", or "her" or "him", etc. etc., rather than refer to that person by their name.
Conversely, when someone is discussing a family member with someone who is acquainted with that person, they will typically refer to them by their given name.
I don't see it as a red flag or an indicator of anything nefarious.
I don't think of it as nefarious or a signal that the child was abused. I do, however, get a sense of detachment or distancing of oneself from the individual. jmo
vasportsmom
10-10-2011, 06:54 PM
I dont believe that, I am all about my baby and he is 6. I am always, when my baby gets home, when your brother is finished..etc.. His name is his formal name but not what I use very often.
I am the same way. I rarely refer to my kids by their given names (in fact my oldest never hears his name unless he is in serious trouble) they are always "my baby" and "my brat" or "B-Bop" and "Jay".
My oldest (aka my brat) is named after a deceased grandfather at the pleadings of that grandfather's parents but after I caved and named him they couldn't use it without crying so he became "Jay". He got his middle name from my father but it is also my brothers' name so we couldn't call him that either.
JeannaT
10-10-2011, 06:55 PM
I don't think of it as nefarious or a signal that the child was abused. I do, however, get a sense of detachment or distancing of oneself from the individual. jmo
I think if they were saying "the kid" or "it", I would be concerned. "My baby" is one of the most intimate terms you can use.
uvamerica
10-10-2011, 06:57 PM
I can't view this link for some reason, but is apparently about the parents' "past" http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-bradleys-family-talks-about-past-20111008,0,1316565.story
Thank you, its not the same link, but its the same reporter, the report I saw was during the day. I tried to find this report but it seems to have disappeared.....:maddening:
sorrell skye
10-10-2011, 06:58 PM
Who is this so-called "body language expert" on HLN that's being discussed right now?
Does this person have a name?
Just K
10-10-2011, 06:59 PM
Whether we like it or not one of the theories that is being run through here is going to be the result. The only way to figure out what makes sense sometimes is to run a theory and see if it floats, has wings, is plausible or not. Right now, most folks here would agree that anything is possible yet few theories seem realistic.
feistygurl
10-10-2011, 06:59 PM
The child can still be alive even if pedophile took her. I recall a case where pedophile took a child and kept her in his attic. With duct tape on her. They found her alive about a week after kidnapping.
Was that child a 10 month old? Got a link?
Honestly if I was trying to stay composed for an interview , I might not use my child's name as often as it would surely break me down to tears if I did. So, I don't see this as a necessary detachment. My problem is with other things like , no locked door on hubbys first night at work, his demeanor, all 3 cells missing, no mention of a timeline when baby Lisa was last seen from someone other than parents, window left open, baby dresssed in clothes not Pjs...sick baby behind closed door, too high of matress in crib fro sleeping infant, no phone in bedroom, 6 yr old and kitty in bed when baby sick and needed tending to, father finding lights on curious (mother could have been up with sick baby , leaving lights on to assist him or reassure her), father's first overnight shift and on and on and on....
jjenny
10-10-2011, 07:01 PM
Was that child a 10 month old? Got a link?
No, I think she was around 3 years old. This was years ago, and I can not find any links.
BetteDavisEyes
10-10-2011, 07:01 PM
I think if they were saying "the kid" or "it", I would be concerned. "My baby" is one of the most intimate terms you can use.
Those who followed the JonBenet Ramsey case probably recall Patsy having referred to JonBenet as "that child". No endearment or intimacy in her wording. jmo
MissJames
10-10-2011, 07:02 PM
I bet you'd call your child by name if he was missing. Everyday talk at home is one thing :) but when a child is missing, I'm of the opinion the child's name should be said.
I'm on the fence about Baby Lisa's parents,but consider ,if she really is missing ,mom is under a lot of stress and despair. Who knows what she typically used when referring to Lisa? She would fall back on what is familiar.
When my son died I did some weird stuff. It's surreal and no way to describe what grief does to you. I can't even imagine what it would be like to have your baby missing .
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 07:02 PM
I know this is not the link you are looking for. If I remember, that checkered past thing was a teaser on a news station and our members here made sure to watch (as you can imagine) and the only thing that seemed to be checkered about it was that she was still married to her son's father and some minor traffic violations. The members who watched were mightily let down because based on the teaser, we all thought something substantive was coming.
Anyway, this link is Deborah's exes family members comments (see the video) regarding what they think of Deborah and this situation.
http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-bradleys-family-talks-about-past-20111008,0,1316565.story
Thanks. There was nothing derogatory said about Debbie in this interview.
PlainJaneDoe
10-10-2011, 07:03 PM
Agreed...I always use My husband, My daughter, My sister...etc and so on when referring to them with another person. My husband and My daughter...well to me those are terms of endearment and proud possessive...as in "my" "mine"...every single one of my children are "mine" and I am proud to say so! Just my own Southern Opinion.
ETA - ok...I have never shared this but due to statements in posts I am going to...my daughter was abducted by her bioDad...I always stated, "My daughter, or my baby has been abducted when speaking with LE or others. (DD is 29 now...she was located when very young and is married and happy)
Stilettos,
I'm sorry to hear about this situation. *hugs* I'm glad it was resolved and you have a happy ending to the story!
Apex-mom
10-10-2011, 07:03 PM
I bet you'd call your child by name if he was missing. Everyday talk at home is one thing :) but when a child is missing, I'm of the opinion the child's name should be said.
I respectfully disagreee... I closed my eyes and thought how I would be answering quesdtions to a reporter in this situation.....if you assume the reporter has knowledge of the details of the situation, I can easily see answers being framed as "we want our daughter back"..."i put her to sleep"... "we just want her back"....since everyone obviously knows to whom you are referring.
...just sayin... that doesn't trip a red flag for me.
:waitasec:
lalalu
10-10-2011, 07:03 PM
Been following for a few days, first post...been thinking about what the mother claims to have said upon going to Lisa's room.
If I remember correctly, she said "She's gone!" That strikes me as odd...I have visualized several scenario's where someone or something is missing and it seems that the normal reaction is to say the person or thing is "not there". Then you would look adjacent to, or near where the person was expected to be before stating they are "gone".
"Gone" seems to apply when the missing person or thing is determined to be removed from the immediate area. I am of the opinion that the exclamation of "She's gone!" as the first statement, was an unconscious verbal slip-up.
Example of when "Gone" fits a scenario: "She's not in her crib; she's not in this room; she's not in the kitchen, the yard, etc. She's gone!"
Of course, I may be nerding out and over-analyzing words. But that is what I tend to do...
raine1212
10-10-2011, 07:03 PM
JMO only, What if the so called teen was involved only with the missing phones and nothing more. Maybe I am crazy but lisa missing and the phones missing could be separate and not linked to each other. Again this is just me thinking out of the box
jjenny
10-10-2011, 07:03 PM
No, I think she was around 3 years old. This was years ago, and I can not find any links.
Found it. This is the case I was talking about. The guy kidnapped a 3 year old and kept her in his attic, she was covered with duct tape. She was found alive.
"A man accused of abducting a 3-year-old girl and keeping her in an attic pleaded guilty today to charges that included kidnapping and rape."
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/02/03/us/man-pleads-guilty-in-abduction-of-girl.html
mrye4709
10-10-2011, 07:03 PM
I don't think of it as nefarious or a signal that the child was abused. I do, however, get a sense of detachment or distancing of oneself from the individual. jmo
Could it be because it is too painful? Like maybe it is easier to talk about her than call her by name?
BetteDavisEyes
10-10-2011, 07:03 PM
Jane Velez Mitchell discussing Lisa Irwin case now on HLM.
Jayarre
10-10-2011, 07:04 PM
Honestly if I was trying to stay composed for an interview , I might not use my child's name as often as it would surely break me down to tears if I did. So, I don't see this as a necessary detachment. My problem is with other things like , no locked door on hubbys first night at work, his demeanor, all 3 cells missing, no mention of a timeline when baby Lisa was last seen from someone other than parents, window left open, baby dresssed in clothes not Pjs...sick baby behind closed door, too high of matress in crib fro sleeping infant, no phone in bedroom, 6 yr old and kitty in bed when baby sick and needed tending to, father finding lights on curious (mother could have been up with sick baby , leaving lights on to assist him or reassure her), father's first overnight shift and on and on and on....
Someone here reported that their car had been broken into recently. If that's a fact you would think they would be really conscious of security.
This may sound a bit off the wall but it's so common today for animal owners to put chips in their pets so if they are lost or stolen they can be located...in the very near future we may see this with all babies when they are born or with parents of toddlers who choose to do so....
I think if I had small children and it was available I would seriously consider it......it's a dangerous world out there today!!! :(
Am I off the wall or what???:twocents:
Soulmagent
10-10-2011, 07:05 PM
I bet you'd call your child by name if he was missing. Everyday talk at home is one thing :) but when a child is missing, I'm of the opinion the child's name should be said.
I would be asking for the return of my son, my little boy,I would probably mention his name to get it out there ,but the pleas would come from my heart and with that the loving terms I call him at home would escape my lips. Often.
I hope I really never know for sure.
KaylynnCouture
10-10-2011, 07:05 PM
Has NG been covering this case at all? I haven't watched her show in the past week or so.
epiphany
10-10-2011, 07:05 PM
I bet you'd call your child by name if he was missing. Everyday talk at home is one thing :) but when a child is missing, I'm of the opinion the child's name should be said.
Not many "my baby," "my pumpkin pie," "my ______," etc. either. "She" and "Her"---very noticeable distancing given the dire situation. For me, one too many red flags. Not buying mom's version of the evening. Nope.
Just K
10-10-2011, 07:05 PM
One more thing about people who are interviewed, questioned and/or whose homes are searched: When the police rule them out they will be happy and relieved that they will not be viewed as a suspect or POI. So, many would welcome the interviews, the searches, and the questions. Heck, for all we know they are providing information that is even helpful to finding what actually happened to Baby Lisa.
Soulmagent
10-10-2011, 07:06 PM
This may sound a bit off the wall but it's so common today for animal owners to put chips in their pets so if they are lost or stolen they can be located...in the very near future we may see this with all babies when they are born or with parents of toddlers who choose to do so....
I think if I had small children and it was available I would seriously consider it......it's a dangerous world out there today!!! :(
Am I off the wall or what???:twocents:
Those chips have been known to cause tumors in animals.
cocomod
10-10-2011, 07:08 PM
This may sound a bit off the wall but it's so common today for animal owners to put chips in their pets so if they are lost or stolen they can be located...in the very near future we may see this with all babies when they are born or with parents of toddlers who choose to do so....
I think if I had small children and it was available I would seriously consider it......it's a dangerous world out there today!!! :(
Am I off the wall or what???:twocents:
Not off the wall, but those chips in animals have to be scanned if I am not mistaken. They are not GPS chips that can track the animal, they must be scanned by a vet or dog catcher to find out the owner.
uvamerica
10-10-2011, 07:08 PM
Been following for a few days, first post...been thinking about what the mother claims to have said upon going to Lisa's room.
If I remember correctly, she said "She's gone!" That strikes me as odd...I have visualized several scenario's where someone or something is missing and it seems that the normal reaction is to say the person or thing is "not there". Then you would look adjacent to, or near where the person was expected to be before stating they are "gone".
"Gone" seems to apply when the missing person or thing is determined to be removed from the immediate area. I am of the opinion that the exclamation of "She's gone!" as the first statement, was an unconscious verbal slip-up.
Example of when "Gone" fits a scenario: "She's not in her crib; she's not in this room; she's not in the kitchen, the yard, etc. She's gone!"
Of course, I may be nerding out and over-analyzing words. But that is what I tend to do...
:rocker: :goodpost: :wagon:
davehead21
10-10-2011, 07:08 PM
KMBC just reported that they received a subpoena today to turn over all video that they have of interviews with neighbors of the Irwins to the Circuit Court of Jackson County. The subpoena may have (I'm sure it did) included other things but the interviews with neighbors was all I caught for sure.
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 07:09 PM
I bet you'd call your child by name if he was missing. Everyday talk at home is one thing :) but when a child is missing, I'm of the opinion the child's name should be said.
I would probably speak about my child as I always did. I'd beg the perp to bring home "My Baby" because to me that says it all....and that's how I referred to them when I was speaking about them to others. I still seldom use my children's names in public.
JeannaT
10-10-2011, 07:09 PM
This may sound a bit off the wall but it's so common today for animal owners to put chips in their pets so if they are lost or stolen they can be located...in the very near future we may see this with all babies when they are born or with parents of toddlers who choose to do so....
I think if I had small children and it was available I would seriously consider it......it's a dangerous world out there today!!! :(
Am I off the wall or what???:twocents:
This is actually one of the very few cases where that would be of great value. People often think chips are "locators", but they aren't. You can't pinpoint the location of a dog based on his chip.
BUT, if some doubting adoptive parent had her scanned for her chip, they could learn that she was kidnapped. OR, a pediatrician when first accepting a new patient that was adopted, could be required to scan the child for a chip to see if it's legit.
It's really SO SO SO rare that babies are kidnapped and put out on the market but in this case it would be a great tool.
wfgodot
10-10-2011, 07:10 PM
Two things which I think are very weak when it comes to figuring people out: "analysis" via body language, or via "statement analysis" - both examples of pop psychology, and both of which don't get the job done.
In da Middle
10-10-2011, 07:10 PM
This may sound a bit off the wall but it's so common today for animal owners to put chips in their pets so if they are lost or stolen they can be located...in the very near future we may see this with all babies when they are born or with parents of toddlers who choose to do so....
I think if I had small children and it was available I would seriously consider it......it's a dangerous world out there today!!! :(
Am I off the wall or what???:twocents:
But these are only good when you bring them in to be scanned. It's not like you can magically find anything with these chips - only verify.
marge_rita
10-10-2011, 07:10 PM
I'm on the fence about Baby Lisa's parents,but consider ,if she really is missing ,mom is under a lot of stress and despair. Who knows what she typically used when referring to Lisa? She would fall back on what is familiar.
When my son died I did some weird stuff. It's surreal and no way to describe what grief does to you. I can't even imagine what it would be like to have your baby missing .
I do understand that MissJames.
Im back and forth about this child's mothers involvement.
imo
pferrin
10-10-2011, 07:10 PM
kmbc just reported that they received a subpoena today to turn over all video that they have of interviews with neighbors of the irwins to the circuit court of jackson county. The subpoena may have (i'm sure it did) included other things but the interviews with neighbors was all i caught for sure.
very interesting..
tlcya
10-10-2011, 07:11 PM
Welcome to Websleuths and thanks for joining the conversation lalalu :) Look forward to hearing your thoughts on this case.
stilettos
10-10-2011, 07:11 PM
I'm on the fence about Baby Lisa's parents,but consider ,if she really is missing ,mom is under a lot of stress and despair. Who knows what she typically used when referring to Lisa? She would fall back on what is familiar.
When my son died I did some weird stuff. It's surreal and no way to describe what grief does to you. I can't even imagine what it would be like to have your baby missing .
It's he77 and you are out of your mind...even if you know who has her! I don't know if these parents are involved...if they are...I will be the first screaming for justice. I just do not believe you can ascribe guilt to Mom or Dad because of pronoun usage.
Those chips have been known to cause tumors in animals.
I was not aware of that, I don't have pets :(
Wishbone
10-10-2011, 07:12 PM
This may sound a bit off the wall but it's so common today for animal owners to put chips in their pets so if they are lost or stolen they can be located...in the very near future we may see this with all babies when they are born or with parents of toddlers who choose to do so....
I think if I had small children and it was available I would seriously consider it......it's a dangerous world out there today!!! :(
Am I off the wall or what???:twocents:
Please do some research on implanted chips in pets and cancer, tumors.....
marge_rita
10-10-2011, 07:12 PM
I respectfully disagreee... I closed my eyes and thought how I would be answering quesdtions to a reporter in this situation.....if you assume the reporter has knowledge of the details of the situation, I can easily see answers being framed as "we want our daughter back"..."i put her to sleep"... "we just want her back"....since everyone obviously knows to whom you are referring.
...just sayin... that doesn't trip a red flag for me.
:waitasec:
My comment was followed by imo --which stands for in my opinion
and
My siggyline states the same thing.
DairyGirl
10-10-2011, 07:12 PM
Ok, I think we are :deadhorse::deadhorse: so I'm going to get my flogging in, too.
I don't see anything unusual with mom calling her "the baby". I think that it may be that it drives the point home that this is a helpless, defenseless person who can't take care of herself and needs help. Calling her Lisa would also be good in personalizing her but it really doesn't matter.
I call my almost 5 year old granddaughter the baby when I am talking about her. I am so old that even 20 year olds are babies to me.
raine1212
10-10-2011, 07:13 PM
When my 4 year old got out of the backyard and went across the street to the neighbors, the first thing from my mouth to my husband where is masen, he's gone. I was running around crazy and my neighbor yelled out he is here... Now the backyard gate stays padlocked. I kept saying he's gone while I was the house and yard. Very scary
momtective
10-10-2011, 07:13 PM
A woman who was married to Jeremy's grandfather before he passed away is speaking on HLN. She said and I'm paraphrasing here..."Jeremy and Debbie are good people, they love their children, they are good parents and they did not do this!"
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 07:13 PM
This may sound a bit off the wall but it's so common today for animal owners to put chips in their pets so if they are lost or stolen they can be located...in the very near future we may see this with all babies when they are born or with parents of toddlers who choose to do so....
I think if I had small children and it was available I would seriously consider it......it's a dangerous world out there today!!! :(
Am I off the wall or what???:twocents:
It's not that far fetched at all.
I believe John Walsh was advocating putting a GPS on young children at one time. If it could be done safely, I think it would be a very good thing for parents to do.
davehead21
10-10-2011, 07:14 PM
JMO only, What if the so called teen was involved only with the missing phones and nothing more. Maybe I am crazy but lisa missing and the phones missing could be separate and not linked to each other. Again this is just me thinking out of the box
I wondered this exact same thing but then why would they want a DNA sample from the teen? That seems a little much for stolen phones but I really don't know.
Tuffy
10-10-2011, 07:14 PM
Those chips have been known to cause tumors in animals.
What! My vet suggested getting my dog chipped! :eek:
BetteDavisEyes
10-10-2011, 07:14 PM
Jane Velez Mitchell just announced that she is filling in for Nancy Grace tonight.
JeannaT
10-10-2011, 07:15 PM
Please do some research on implanted chips in pets and cancer, tumors.....
Hmm. I know they frequently lead to the death in teeny tiny puppies, in areas where it's the law that puppies be chipped at birth. Like, maltese or exceptionally small yorkie puppies. Puppies that are the size of mice, and the chip is the size of . . . like a good n plenty candy.
Human babies are bigger than the largest breed dogs, though, and I was unaware of any health issue with large breeds.
Are you talking specifically of the microteeny dogs?
marge_rita
10-10-2011, 07:15 PM
I would be asking for the return of my son, my little boy,I would probably mention his name to get it out there ,but the pleas would come from my heart and with that the loving terms I call him at home would escape my lips. Often.
I hope I really never know for sure.
Exactly how many times has Lisa's mom plead for her babie's return?
Just K
10-10-2011, 07:15 PM
It's he77 and you are out of your mind...even if you know who has her! I don't know if these parents are involved...if they are...I will be the first screaming for justice. I just do not believe you can ascribe guilt to Mom or Dad because of pronoun usage.
in a very notorious case, out of Virginia, a mother's daughter went missing from college. In interviews the mother was criticized for this very thing. In one interview she called her daughter "that girl". Her daughter was murdered by an acquaintance. You just never know.
Tuffy
10-10-2011, 07:16 PM
I wondered this exact same thing but then why would they want a DNA sample from the teen? That seems a little much for stolen phones but I really don't know.
Yeah, and that would be just too coincidental if the teen stole the phones right before the baby was kidnapped.
momtective
10-10-2011, 07:16 PM
Jane Velez Mitchell just announced that she is filling in for Nancy Grace tonight.
From facebook about an hour ago:
Nancy Grace
Infant girl last seen by mother allegedly vanishes from her crib while mom sleeps only feet away- parents and police scouring the town for clues! Where is baby Lisa Irwin?
sorrell skye
10-10-2011, 07:16 PM
Those who followed the JonBenet Ramsey case probably recall Patsy having referred to JonBenet as "that child". No endearment or intimacy in her wording. jmo
Well, Thank Goodness we haven't heard DB or JI refer to baby Lisa in those terms - because I agree, to refer to your baby as "that child" is distancing language, IMO. The word "that" is always a distancing word, and refers to something that is not near, linguistically speaking.
MissJames
10-10-2011, 07:17 PM
This may sound a bit off the wall but it's so common today for animal owners to put chips in their pets so if they are lost or stolen they can be located...in the very near future we may see this with all babies when they are born or with parents of toddlers who choose to do so....
I think if I had small children and it was available I would seriously consider it......it's a dangerous world out there today!!! :(
Am I off the wall or what???:twocents:
I understand the sentiment,but believe it's a slippery slope .
Dr.Fessel
10-10-2011, 07:17 PM
KMBC just reported that they received a subpoena today to turn over all video that they have of interviews with neighbors of the Irwins to the Circuit Court of Jackson County. The subpoena may have (I'm sure it did) included other things but the interviews with neighbors was all I caught for sure.
Good deal, they must have saw something on one of the interviews or heard something was caught on tape that might be relevant. Maybe all that filming they did of the detectives talking to the people in that one house.
EllaMae
10-10-2011, 07:17 PM
Exactly how many times has Lisa's mom plead for her babies return?
Quite a few times in the early days. There are links here somewhere.
raine1212
10-10-2011, 07:18 PM
I wondered this exact same thing but then why would they want a DNA sample from the teen? That seems a little much for stolen phones but I really don't know.
Only thing I can think of re: DNA is to rule out everyone's DNA that was in that house. So if they find some DNA there that is not a match to who was in the house that day.
feistygurl
10-10-2011, 07:18 PM
I wonder about jeremy not showing much emotion. I know at one time I was on a low dose anti depressant lexapro. During this time my gmother passed away. I felt so bad at the funeral, I could not cry, couldn't make nyself cry and felt really bad about it.
davehead21
10-10-2011, 07:18 PM
What! My vet suggested getting my dog chipped! :eek:
Yeah, same here. You can find studies that say anything and everything causes cancer. :twocents:
But these are only good when you bring them in to be scanned. It's not like you can magically find anything with these chips - only verify.
Like I said my thinking was probably off the wall :)
Duke Fan4
10-10-2011, 07:19 PM
teen is probably a minor
stilettos
10-10-2011, 07:19 PM
in a very notorious case, out of Virginia, a mother's daughter went missing from college. In interviews the mother was critisized for this very thing. In one interview she called her daughter "that girl". Her daughter was murdered by an acquaintance. You just never know.
I just do not know if I could judge...I looked crazy to the LE and Judge that were involved in my daughter's case...they flat out told me so...and I told them I was flipping crazy. They would be too! I pray that they find this baby and she is ok...I don't have alot of hope...but I am praying. My DD would say.."look at me, Mom"...and she would be right.
mysteriew
10-10-2011, 07:19 PM
It's not that far fetched at all.
I believe John Walsh was advocating putting a GPS on young children at one time. If it could be done safely, I think it would be a very good thing for parents to do.
The biggest objection I have to this..... If this was being done to a lot of kids, it would be common knowlege. And if it was common knowlege, what do you think a kidnapper would do and how far would they go to remove the device?
JeannaT
10-10-2011, 07:20 PM
Exactly how many times has Lisa's mom plead for her babies return?
Every interview I've seen - she tearfully pleads for someone to drop her off, in some safe place, anywhere, her family misses her. Her brothers miss her, everyone loves her, she comes from a good family, drop her off somewhere safe.
Every time I've ever seen her interviewed.
marge_rita
10-10-2011, 07:20 PM
Not many "my baby," "my pumpkin pie," "my ______," etc. either. "She" and "Her"---very noticeable distancing given the dire situation. For me, one too many red flags. Not buying mom's version of the evening. Nope.
epiphany, :seeya: I agree.
Patty G
10-10-2011, 07:20 PM
Lisa Irwin Story on Issues 10/10/11
Lisa Irwin: Issues 10/10/11 - YouTube
stilettos
10-10-2011, 07:20 PM
Only thing I can think of re: DNA is to rule out everyone's DNA that was in that house. So if they find some DNA there that is not a match to who was in the house that day.
So if the teen is a minor, his parents would have to consent to DNA being taken?
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