PDA

View Full Version : gaps in timeline


nursebeeme
10-11-2011, 01:23 AM
Both Lisa's mother and family have hinted at gaps in the timeline the night she went missing..

http://abcnews.go.com/ad/gmaintroad.html?goback=http%3A%2F%2Fabcnews.go.com %2FUS%2Fmissing-baby-lisa-parents-talk-police-reward-fund%2Fstory%3Fid%3D14698959

Lisa's mother claims it the finger pointed at her right after the gaps came to light and family chalks them up as inconsequential.

krimekat
10-11-2011, 01:24 AM
thanks!!!

what time did the father leave for work? is this on a timeline . . .

Lisa Irwin-Timeline - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

time line link

nursebeeme
10-11-2011, 01:25 AM
oh! you are right KK.. we need a link to shelby1's timeline

nursebeeme
10-11-2011, 01:28 AM
it is in a stickie in this new forum.. link: Lisa Irwin-Timeline - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

mysteriew
10-11-2011, 01:32 AM
Lot's of missing info

What time did JI leave for work?
Who was the unidentified man?
Who was with the kids while DB was at the grocery?
What time was the teen at the home?
Who was the 2:30 am texting with? And what did the texts say?

BeanE
10-11-2011, 06:29 AM
Mom said "we" saw/put Lisa in her crib at 10:30. LE said "they" put Lisa in her crib at 10:30.

Who's the other person (people?) who saw/put Lisa in her crib at 10:30 besides Mom? Did Dad come home for lunch at that time? Was someone else there?

Inquiring minds want to know... :)

Snowball58
10-11-2011, 11:27 AM
OMG, been trying so hard to stay up to date on these threads, but they move so fast it's impossible!

The "we" and "they" is very interesting indeed...

mysticrose
10-11-2011, 11:47 AM
Nothing so far on when dad went to work ?
We are working with a timeline here that has been basicly given by the mother of last time seen at 10:30pm, and I want more. Where are the investigative reporters, do they not exist anymore ?
I want to know if dad was home when mom was seen in the video at the Grocery Store first and foremost ..

LAMARQ
10-11-2011, 03:29 PM
Could the "we/they" be her and the boys putting Lisa to bed? Late for the boys during the week, but could be. Sorry if I missed that the boys were asleep.

tlcya
10-11-2011, 03:36 PM
Lot's of missing info

What time did JI leave for work?
Who was the unidentified man?
Who was with the kids while DB was at the grocery?
What time was the teen at the home?
Who was the 2:30 am texting with? And what did the texts say?

I don't think we have any confirmation about texting at 2:30. Far as I know that was rumor. I agree that all of your other questions need answering before we can determine where the gaps lay in the timeline.

bubblesdoe
10-11-2011, 07:09 PM
I want to know a timeline of the entire day. From the time they got up until the time they called the police. Since JI was apparently home during the day which would not be usual since he usually worked days what did he do? The boys are 6 and 8 so they should have gone to school, what did DB, JI and Lisa do all day?

When was the kitten found, where and by whom?
How did the kids get home from school and what did they do?
When did they eat dinner?
I don't even think we know when JI left the house to go to work do we?

For me the gaps go back even further than the 7:30/10:30 times that have been discussed. I think their movements all day may be important. MOO

Of course I am sure that the police do have this information. But it also makes me wonder if when they talk about gaps are they maybe referring to earlier in the day too-- especially since we now know they were checking on DB's shopping trip earlier in the evening.

w1df10wr
10-12-2011, 05:29 AM
Lots of good questions everyone!

DB was at the grocery store around 5pm. What time did she leave for the store, when did she get back? How much time could the boys have spent with her that afternoon/ evening if they got home at say 3:30pm and went to bed, at maybe 8:30pm?

Tuffy
10-12-2011, 08:00 AM
Earlier on in the case, someone here said that JI didn't know when he would be home. He was working late, and didn't have a set end time. I guess it was just speculation, but I have thought all along that he worked that day, and stayed late into the night.

I have also heard here that he was the at the home when Lisa was put to bed around 7:30. That would be odd to me, because that would mean that he actually was at work for only maybe 7 hrs on the clock. Most places subtract lunch, right? It would be about 8 hours though, if he received paid lunch breaks. Not unheard of, my employer used to pay for lunches.

dizzychick
10-12-2011, 08:05 AM
whomever is responsible does not want something known regarding 3 cell phones. Easy enough to find out the numbers and trace the calls, has anyone heard anymore about the phones?

TobyWong*
10-12-2011, 08:14 AM
IMO I think the gaps are mom saying "i put her in bed @ 7:30, checked on her @ 10:30 and thats all I know, I was sleeping"
Obviously theres more if she never mentioned going to the store. Theres more if the txt @ 2:30 is true.

SurfieTX
10-12-2011, 08:21 AM
Just wanted to bring this over for reference:

The Today Show just showed the video of Debbie and the unidentified man in the video. The time on the video is 16:46 (4:46 PM). She bought a box of wine, baby food and baby wipes.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7221168&postcount=526

frankie069
10-12-2011, 08:32 AM
Lot's of missing info

What time did JI leave for work?
Who was the unidentified man?
Who was with the kids while DB was at the grocery?
What time was the teen at the home?
Who was the 2:30 am texting with? And what did the texts say?

And when and where did they find the kitten.. That will not only give us a time when they were out (mom claims she didnt leave the house that day until footage of store showed up) and it also gives us a location she was at as well.

keeponsearching
10-12-2011, 08:36 AM
Looks to me. She is going over what she did that night. Did anyone come out and ask her about the whole day??? I saw someone above say she claimed she did not go anywhere, do we have a link for that?

frankie069
10-12-2011, 08:36 AM
I want to know a timeline of the entire day. From the time they got up until the time they called the police. Since JI was apparently home during the day which would not be usual since he usually worked days what did he do? The boys are 6 and 8 so they should have gone to school, what did DB, JI and Lisa do all day?

When was the kitten found, where and by whom?
How did the kids get home from school and what did they do?
When did they eat dinner?
I don't even think we know when JI left the house to go to work do we?

For me the gaps go back even further than the 7:30/10:30 times that have been discussed. I think their movements all day may be important. MOO

Of course I am sure that the police do have this information. But it also makes me wonder if when they talk about gaps are they maybe referring to earlier in the day too-- especially since we now know they were checking on DB's shopping trip earlier in the evening.

I dont think the police have all this information because they really went on her word that she was home all day until a receipt was found and they pulled the video of the store. I think its at that point they went digging. When the police said the family stopped cooperating I believe them. I think precious, valuable time that can never be replaced has been lost.

Mountain_Kat
10-12-2011, 08:38 AM
Something doesn't add up with this timeline. A stay at home mom with 3 small children would surely have fixed dinner, right? When did this occur? Before or after the run to the store for wine? If after the store run, the timeline gets VERY cramped here with respect to when DB says she put Lisa to sleep. Especially if we're looking at her hanging outside talking to the neighbor for awhile.

I need to watch the interviews with the parents again, I guess.

frankie069
10-12-2011, 08:41 AM
In establishing a time line, it would have been helpful to also have had neighbors who saw mom or dad come and go. Does anyone find it odd that none of the neighbors seems to know this family other than a wave hello. DB and JI seems to have no neighborhood ties at all. I am not sure how long they have lived in their home. I just moved into my place 2 months ago and already have talked to some of my neighbors and I dont have small children to have in common with them either. It seems odd to me that no one in the community seems to know them.. For example, church, PTA, pee wee sports for the kids, the local library etc.. I am not trying to be funny here, but does the mother have a FB account because I could have found out what she did for the last year in 2 minutes if she did.

frankie069
10-12-2011, 08:43 AM
Something doesn't add up with this timeline. A stay at home mom with 3 small children would surely have fixed dinner, right? When did this occur? Before or after the run to the store for wine? If after the store run, the timeline gets VERY cramped here with respect to when DB says she put Lisa to sleep. Especially if we're looking at her hanging outside talking to the neighbor for awhile.

I need to watch the interviews with the parents again, I guess.

You were typing at the same time as me.. I did forget about this one neighbor. Seems to be the only one that knew her and its a teenager.. On Vinny Politan the other night, he was on the phone with a woman that lived next door and she said she didnt know the family at all other than a wave hello. I find that odd.

TobyWong*
10-12-2011, 08:44 AM
Just wanted to bring this over for reference:

The Today Show just showed the video of Debbie and the unidentified man in the video. The time on the video is 16:46 (4:46 PM). She bought a box of wine, baby food and baby wipes.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7221168&postcount=526

So she"s @ the store @ 4:46 pm
kids school out @ 3:45ish, do they take the bus? or pick up? either way we can add minutes for that.

The neighbor (M) w/ the 4 yr old was there from when to when?

I wonder if neighbor watched the kids while she ran to store?

Mountain_Kat
10-12-2011, 08:51 AM
So she"s @ the store @ 4:46 pm
kids school out @ 3:45ish, do they take the bus? or pick up? either way we can add minutes for that.

The neighbor (M) w/ the 4 yr old was there from when to when?

I wonder if neighbor watched the kids while she ran to store?

Well, we don't know when JI left for work, but if he worked an 8 hour shift and got home at 4 am, he would have been home at 8 pm. Even if we push that back an hour or two, he still would have been home to watch the kids while DB ran to the store.

Unless he went somewhere prior to work. But then...when did this family eat dinner? :waitasec:

TobyWong*
10-12-2011, 08:54 AM
In establishing a time line, it would have been helpful to also have had neighbors who saw mom or dad come and go. Does anyone find it odd that none of the neighbors seems to know this family other than a wave hello. DB and JI seems to have no neighborhood ties at all. I am not sure how long they have lived in their home. I just moved into my place 2 months ago and already have talked to some of my neighbors and I dont have small children to have in common with them either. It seems odd to me that no one in the community seems to know them.. For example, church, PTA, pee wee sports for the kids, the local library etc.. I am not trying to be funny here, but does the mother have a FB account because I could have found out what she did for the last year in 2 minutes if she did.

don't want to be ot but, on our street of 12 houses, we only talk to 1. And thats cause they have kids that play w/ mine.

To be fair, we run adult foster care out of our McMansion so the neighbors in their ignorance stay away.... funny cause they are mostly seniors that will someday sooner rather than later might need our services;-)

stilettos
10-12-2011, 08:56 AM
In establishing a time line, it would have been helpful to also have had neighbors who saw mom or dad come and go. Does anyone find it odd that none of the neighbors seems to know this family other than a wave hello. DB and JI seems to have no neighborhood ties at all. I am not sure how long they have lived in their home. I just moved into my place 2 months ago and already have talked to some of my neighbors and I dont have small children to have in common with them either. It seems odd to me that no one in the community seems to know them.. For example, church, PTA, pee wee sports for the kids, the local library etc.. I am not trying to be funny here, but does the mother have a FB account because I could have found out what she did for the last year in 2 minutes if she did.

I actually know my neighbors well. Been here for five years and have known two of my neighbors longer than that as we go to church together. I could not tell you what time they come and go...I cannot see them out my windows. I can hear the neighbors truck start in the am so I could give a rough estimate on the time he leaves...other than that, i am clueless...don't know what time th ekids get home from school, I occasionally see them riding a scooter to my driveway, that is as far as the Mom will let them go....my other neighbors...don't ever see them. Some people just don't associate with neighbors but mind their own business.

eleni777
10-12-2011, 09:00 AM
Mom said "we" saw/put Lisa in her crib at 10:30. LE said "they" put Lisa in her crib at 10:30.

Who's the other person (people?) who saw/put Lisa in her crib at 10:30 besides Mom? Did Dad come home for lunch at that time? Was someone else there?

Inquiring minds want to know... :)

Here's the thing...I'm single divorced with a child...I always say 'WE'..people think I'm talking about my significant other...when I'm really taking about myself and my daughter. When I talked about myself and my significant other I use his name. first there's a miscommunication about the time baby Lisa was put to bed...baby's generally fall asleep around 7:30-8pm...unless Lisa was on some weird schedule she probably fell asleep at that time. Did she fall asleep in her bed or out in the family room where everyone was hanging out and was physically MOVED to her bed at 10:30 when mom went to bed..this needs to be clarified. Otherwise... here's how I interpet those statement..

Baby Lisa was put to bed at 7:30...the 'WE' in that statement would probably be one or both of the boys since Daddy had to be at work at 7.

The 'WE' in we checked on her at 10:30 was again probably one/both of the boys... I'm leaning more towards it just being the 6 year old since he was found sleeping with mom, he probably is still having issues with sleeping alone in the dark (my daughter did) hence the WE would most likely be the 6 yr old following mom around on the way to the bed where he was found by the dad.

jmo

frankie069
10-12-2011, 09:02 AM
I actually know my neighbors well. Been here for five years and have known two of my neighbors longer than that as we go to church together. I could not tell you what time they come and go...I cannot see them out my windows. I can hear the neighbors truck start in the am so I could give a rough estimate on the time he leaves...other than that, i am clueless...don't know what time th ekids get home from school, I occasionally see them riding a scooter to my driveway, that is as far as the Mom will let them go....my other neighbors...don't ever see them. Some people just don't associate with neighbors but mind their own business.

I just find that if she were involved with the neighbors or her community, that the police would have more information. Not just about the parents mind you, but about anything. When a neighbor doesnt know you at all, they dont know who belongs in your house and who doesnt lets say, if she knew hers, maybe someone would have stood out, or one of them would have been able to say, oh yeah, Deb, well she went to the store around 4, I was talking with her in the driveway before she left. We would have more of a time line and it establishes credibility to me.

TobyWong*
10-12-2011, 09:18 AM
I just find that if she were involved with the neighbors or her community, that the police would have more information. Not just about the parents mind you, but about anything. When a neighbor doesnt know you at all, they dont know who belongs in your house and who doesnt lets say, if she knew hers, maybe someone would have stood out, or one of them would have been able to say, oh yeah, Deb, well she went to the store around 4, I was talking with her in the driveway before she left. We would have more of a time line and it establishes credibility to me.

There is the neighbor lady who was talking to the mom outside while her 4yr old was inside w/ the boys watching a movie. 4:46pm is the time stamp on the store video.


Now I'm wondering if the neighbor came over right after mom went tothe store.??

Cher352
10-12-2011, 09:57 AM
Here's the thing...I'm single divorced with a child...I always say 'WE'..people think I'm talking about my significant other...when I'm really taking about myself and my daughter. When I talked about myself and my significant other I use his name. first there's a miscommunication about the time baby Lisa was put to bed...baby's generally fall asleep around 7:30-8pm...unless Lisa was on some weird schedule she probably fell asleep at that time. Did she fall asleep in her bed or out in the family room where everyone was hanging out and was physically MOVED to her bed at 10:30 when mom went to bed..this needs to be clarified. Otherwise... here's how I interpet those statement..

Baby Lisa was put to bed at 7:30...the 'WE' in that statement would probably be one or both of the boys since Daddy had to be at work at 7.

The 'WE' in we checked on her at 10:30 was again probably one/both of the boys... I'm leaning more towards it just being the 6 year old since he was found sleeping with mom, he probably is still having issues with sleeping alone in the dark (my daughter did) hence the WE would most likely be the 6 yr old following mom around on the way to the bed where he was found by the dad.

jmo

I don't get too hung up on the "we" statements because my husband uses that term all the time when referring to someone only one of us was involved in.

Never thought much about it until this case. Just last night hubby asked "have we feed the dog?". I replied "I don't know about we but I did" LOL!

BeanE
10-12-2011, 10:31 AM
That all makes sense to me about the "we", except that LE said "they". LE would not have the same mindset as parents. So I still wonder who the "we"/"they" were.

sorrell skye
10-12-2011, 03:23 PM
I woke up this morning thinking about the timeline - especially the 3 hours between the time DB said she put the baby to bed @ 7:30 until the time DB said she went to bed @ 10:30.

That's a 3 hour gap we haven't heard anything about, to my recollection. In the several interviews the parents have given, I don't recall DB giving any details about what she did during that 3 hour time frame.

Does anyone else?

DB comes across as a chatterbox - I would have expected to hear about how she spent her evening (after putting the kids to bed) in at least one interview, but it's all very vague, as if she time-warped from 7:30 to 10:30.

I wonder if this is one of the gaps DB was referring to that she said she was unable to fill in for LE?

Mountain_Kat
10-12-2011, 03:33 PM
I woke up this morning thinking about the timeline - especially the 3 hours between the time DB said she put the baby to bed @ 7:30 until the time DB said she went to bed @ 10:30.

That's a 3 hour gap we haven't heard anything about, to my recollection. In the several interviews the parents have given, I don't recall DB giving any details about what she did during that 3 hour time frame.

Does anyone else?

DB comes across as a chatterbox - I would have expected to hear about how she spent her evening (after putting the kids to bed) in at least one interview, but it's all very vague, as if she time-warped from 7:30 to 10:30.

I wonder if this is one of the gaps DB was referring to that she said she was unable to fill in for LE?

At one point she claims she was on the computer, hence the reason that window was open.

sorrell skye
10-12-2011, 03:50 PM
At one point she claims she was on the computer, hence the reason that window was open.

Thanks Mountain Kat - I forgot about that!

ozazure
10-13-2011, 01:51 AM
My partner is an electrician and has occasionally worked overnight. A lot of the time it will be an irregular length shift because it is to do a particular job whilst something is shut down, special access required, whatever. So a short or long shift is not unusual - occasionally he has worked several predictable shifts overnight but by far the majority are based on the individual job. Just wanted to add that due to all the speculation about what kind of shift Lisa's father may have had, since to my knowledge it's not been reported on.

Wise Old Owl
10-13-2011, 02:01 AM
At one point she claims she was on the computer, hence the reason that window was open.
Have to wonder if LE has copied that hard drive. Well, not really, LE probably already has that hard drive and a computer forensic tech is working on it as we speak.

Abby Normal
10-13-2011, 02:11 AM
I just find that if she were involved with the neighbors or her community, that the police would have more information. Not just about the parents mind you, but about anything. When a neighbor doesnt know you at all, they dont know who belongs in your house and who doesnt lets say, if she knew hers, maybe someone would have stood out, or one of them would have been able to say, oh yeah, Deb, well she went to the store around 4, I was talking with her in the driveway before she left. We would have more of a time line and it establishes credibility to me.

I think they have that, and it's just not released. On one of the first "neighbor" interviews I remember, a lady up the street was recalling how she found out from police. They told her a little girl had gone missing up the street and she said "Is it Lisa?" (thread 10 I think). Then there was a neighbor over to watch movies with her kids, and if the man from the grocery store is a neighbor... and that's just one 24 hour period. (roughly)

I don't know. I don't think anyone on our street could name my kids, even though they "know" and recognize us.

*JMO*
10-13-2011, 02:29 AM
At least I think we can establish that Lisa was thought by DB to be alive and well at the time she was seen at the store since she was buying baby food and wipes along with the wine. There was earlier speculation that the parents might be covering up something that happened earlier in the day. What time was she at the store?

SurfieTX
10-13-2011, 07:43 AM
At least I think we can establish that Lisa was thought by DB to be alive and well at the time she was seen at the store since she was buying baby food and wipes along with the wine. There was earlier speculation that the parents might be covering up something that happened earlier in the day. What time was she at the store?


BBM: The time stamp on the video says 4:46 p.m. I think they were in the store for about 6 minutes, if I recall correctly.

yllek
10-14-2011, 05:12 PM
These "gaps" in the time line are stuck in my craw. This is one thing that apparently Debbi and LE agree on. She says LE came down on her because of gaps she couldn't fill in during questioning. She acknowledges gaps. Her father stated that he essentially feels she was in the hotseat because of "itty bitty" mistakes in her time line of events, and referenced they were going back and forth between Debbi and Jeremy and finding inconsistencies.

If there's confirmation that Jeremy went to work when he claims (we still don't know the time) and didn't come home until shortly before 4:00 a.m. as the couple claims, then why would there be any inconsistencies in time line between Debbi and Jeremy? He wouldn't know anything other than what Debbi told him. Did Debbi's story change between what she initially told Jeremy and what she told LE? Or, does LE have good reason or proof to believe things occured that day/night/next morning (or sometime further in the past) to indicate information is being withheld? All of the above?

Baby Lisa is missing; 9 days into her search and multiple interviews and press releases later and we still know very little about the time line. It's bothersome, imo.

-Debbi went shopping around 5 pm with her brother (did she come straight home? what time? was Jeremy still at home? When did Jeremy leave for work?)

-Debbi says she put Lisa to sleep at 7:30 pm (what did the family do between Debbi's return from the store and 7:30 pm?)

-Debbi says that she and the boys were in bed by 10:30 pm, after she checked on the baby - leaving a window open in computer room and shutting off the lights (what happened between 7:30 pm and 10:30 pm?)

-Debbi and Jeremy say they discovered baby Lisa missing from her crib shortly before 4 a.m. when Jeremy returned from work to find the lights on, a screen tampered, the fronot door unlocked, Debbi and her son in bed with a kitten and Lisa's door open and her crib empty. 911 is called at 4:04 am.
(I could find no quotes by Debbi stating she was asleep the whole time between initially going to bed and Jeremy coming home, only that she didn't hear or see anything related to Lisa's disappearance.)

Note: sometime during the afternoon or evening a neighbor lady and her daughter visited the house and they left some time before Debbi went to bed (what time was that visit?).
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
References / Links:
"From the start when they've questioned me, once I couldn't fill in gaps, it turned into 'You did it, you did it,'" Deborah Bradley told "Good Morning America."http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-parents-talk-police-reward-fund/story?id=14698959

"They would come in and say, 'OK, Jeremy said this, and they'd go back to Jeremy and say Deb said this and that," Netz (Debbi's father) said. "When you're tired and worried about your baby, you're bound to make itty, bitty mistakes in time lines."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44821388/

Mountain_Kat
10-16-2011, 08:31 AM
(Thinking outloud here.)

So...DB gets a ride to the store and purchases a box of wine. This occurs some time around 5 pm. She tells us that prior to putting Lisa down for the night, she bathed and dressed the baby. She tells us Lisa went to sleep around 7:30. If the information we heard on Judge Jeanine last night is accurate, at some point in time, DB and her neighbor drink some wine out on the porch. And DB also tells us that the boys and the daughter of the neighbor watch a "fairytale" video. So...does the wine drinking and video watching occur before, during, or after Lisa is put down to sleep?

From 5pm until 7:30 pm is only 2 1/2 hours. Was dinner prepared for the boys that night? What about Jeremy? According to DB, Lisa was fed, bathed, changed and put to bed (which must take a bit of time, right?) prior to 7:30.

From 7:30 pm to 10:30 pm is a 3 hour time frame. Now, according to DB, the neighbor was gone when she went to bed at 10:30. Of course, we don't know what time the neighbor actually left, so this could have been any time between 7:30 and 10:30. But DB also says she was on the computer for some undetermined length of time. I'd assume the neighbor was gone by the time DB did her computering.

When were the boys actually put to bed? If we believe DB, she put one of the boys in bed with her because she liked to have that bonding time when she was able. I'm assuming that means the boy wasn't already asleep when DB came to bed. So, was she IN bed prior to 10:30? If so...that sure doesn't seem like alot of time between 7:30 and some time before 10:30 for chatting, wine drinking, video watching, computering and child bonding time.

Tuffy
10-16-2011, 10:53 AM
(Thinking outloud here.)

So...DB gets a ride to the store and purchases a box of wine. This occurs some time around 5 pm. She tells us that prior to putting Lisa down for the night, she bathed and dressed the baby. She tells us Lisa went to sleep around 7:30. If the information we heard on Judge Jeanine last night is accurate, at some point in time, DB and her neighbor drink some wine out on the porch. And DB also tells us that the boys and the daughter of the neighbor watch a "fairytale" video. So...does the wine drinking and video watching occur before, during, or after Lisa is put down to sleep?

From 5pm until 7:30 pm is only 2 1/2 hours. Was dinner prepared for the boys that night? What about Jeremy? According to DB, Lisa was fed, bathed, changed and put to bed (which must take a bit of time, right?) prior to 7:30.

From 7:30 pm to 10:30 pm is a 3 hour time frame. Now, according to DB, the neighbor was gone when she went to bed at 10:30. Of course, we don't know what time the neighbor actually left, so this could have been any time between 7:30 and 10:30. But DB also says she was on the computer for some undetermined length of time. I'd assume the neighbor was gone by the time DB did her computering.

When were the boys actually put to bed? If we believe DB, she put one of the boys in bed with her because she liked to have that bonding time when she was able. I'm assuming that means the boy wasn't already asleep when DB came to bed. So, was she IN bed prior to 10:30? If so...that sure doesn't seem like alot of time between 7:30 and some time before 10:30 for chatting, wine drinking, video watching, computering and child bonding time.

Again, they've done another interview, but not really told us much about that day/night. Why are they so vague? He doesn't explain much about the events of his evening related to work, and times. She doesn't tell us much about her interactions with the kids at home. She talks about it very abstractly, IMO. She keeps telling us what she normally does, and what she likes to do.

Codger
10-16-2011, 11:06 AM
Again, they've done another interview, but not really told us much about that day/night. Why are they so vague? He doesn't explain much about the events of his evening related to work, and times. She doesn't tell us much about her interactions with the kids at home. She talks about it very abstractly, IMO. She keeps telling us what she normally does, and what she likes to do.
JMO - Maybe it was just a regular day, nothing stood out, until they discovered Lisa missing. Other than JI working a new shift overnight instead of day shift it may have been a typical routine day + evening. I could tell you what normally goes on here at typical times, but I might not be sure we did exactly that yesterday, especially if it all faded to black with the only thing I could think about being - where is Lisa? I'd be hard pressed to give a flying squirt what time I ate dinner for example. No offense intended to anyone, just trying to imagine what my thought process might be. Of course one never knows til they walk a mile in those shoes, so it's just my speculation + MOO.

Tuffy
10-16-2011, 11:17 AM
My partner is an electrician and has occasionally worked overnight. A lot of the time it will be an irregular length shift because it is to do a particular job whilst something is shut down, special access required, whatever. So a short or long shift is not unusual - occasionally he has worked several predictable shifts overnight but by far the majority are based on the individual job. Just wanted to add that due to all the speculation about what kind of shift Lisa's father may have had, since to my knowledge it's not been reported on.

Was this his first night on the job? Or just the first night that he worked at night on this job?

Very first day at work is usually pretty memorable, as opposed to just another day at work, right?

Someone mentioned in another thread that the reason he may have forgotten that his work cell phone was in his pocket, was that it was his first day. Was it?

Tuffy
10-16-2011, 11:19 AM
JMO - Maybe it was just a regular day, nothing stood out, until they discovered Lisa missing. Other than JI working a new shift overnight instead of day shift it may have been a typical routine day + evening. I could tell you what normally goes on here at typical times, but I might not be sure we did exactly that yesterday, especially if it all faded to black with the only thing I could think about being - where is Lisa? I'd be hard pressed to give a flying squirt what time I ate dinner for example. No offense intended to anyone, just trying to imagine what my thought process might be. Of course one never knows til they walk a mile in those shoes, so it's just my speculation + MOO.

I agree that the night may just be a blur for many reasons. I wonder if she had a bit too much too drink. That would explain the lack of being able to recall any details, forgetting things, not hearing/being aware of anything after the neighbor leaves.

BBM: She's not mentioned dinner at all, right? She doesn't mention preparing, or even if dinner occurred.

BetteDavisEyes
10-16-2011, 11:22 AM
I wish we knew more about the family's activities the weekend prior to Lisa's disappearance. I know there was a birthday party for one of the boys - that, in itself, leads to many questions about the timeline. What time was the party? How many people were there? Was it mostly a children's party, or were there adults, too? Was alcohol consumed? When did the party end? How much clean-up was needed? Did Deborah clean up afterwards? Did Jeremy or anyone else help? What time did the family get up on Monday morning? When did the boys leave for school? Do they walk, ride the bus, or are they driven to school?

I'd like more information about what transpired on Sunday because there might be something significant that timeline. jmo

iluvmua
10-16-2011, 11:24 AM
I wish we knew more about the family's activities the weekend prior to Lisa's disappearance. I know there was a birthday party for one of the boys - that, in itself, leads to many questions about the timeline. What time was the party? How many people were there? Was it mostly a children's party, or were there adults, too? Was alcohol consumed? When did the party end? How much clean-up was needed? Did Deborah clean up afterwards? Did Jeremy or anyone else help? What time did the family get up on Monday morning? When did the boys leave for school? Do they walk, ride the bus, or are they driven to school?

I'd like more information about what transpired on Sunday because there might be something significant that timeline. jmo

Boys were off of school that day. It was staff development day.

Mountain_Kat
10-16-2011, 11:24 AM
Again, they've done another interview, but not really told us much about that day/night. Why are they so vague? He doesn't explain much about the events of his evening related to work, and times. She doesn't tell us much about her interactions with the kids at home. She talks about it very abstractly, IMO. She keeps telling us what she normally does, and what she likes to do.

Exactly, Tuffy! She tells us she doesn't normally leave a window open, but never tells us why she did have the window open on this particular night, or why she left it open when she went to bed. She says she usually locks the door when she goes to bed, but doesn't recall if she locked the door this particular night? If she USUALLY does that, what makes her unsure if she did it this night? The two things she does answer with certainty is that she turned all the lights off when she went to bed, and that the cell phones were on the counter. Pretty convenient that a kidnapper doesn't have to search the house for phones...they are right there for the taking. ALL of them. Pretty interesting that she recalls turning off all the lights before going to bed, when by her own statements, this is one of the first questions Jeremy asks her when he wakes her up. Also interesting that, from statements made by both Jeremy and Debbie, it's a somewhat usual thing for the kids to sleep in the parent's room (recall that Jeremy and Debbie both say he asked about the boy being in the bed). And yet, we hear Jeremy say that one of the first things they did was check on the boys. Ummm...huh? If one boy is in bed with Mom, then you don't have to check on him, right?

BetteDavisEyes
10-16-2011, 11:29 AM
Boys were off of school that day. It was staff development day.

In that case, what did the family do during the day?

Bon
10-16-2011, 11:29 AM
I know this has been asked over and over but I never did see an answer...did they have a landline in their house???

iluvmua
10-16-2011, 11:31 AM
In that case, what did the family do during the day?

I have no clue

Codger
10-16-2011, 11:35 AM
I agree that the night may just be a blur for many reasons. I wonder if she had a bit too much too drink. That would explain the lack of being able to recall any details, forgetting things, not hearing/being aware of anything after the neighbor leaves.

BBM: She's not mentioned dinner at all, right? She doesn't mention preparing, or even if dinner occurred.
I've been waiting on the whole wine thing because I really don't know how much she had to drink, how often she drank, etc. + I wouldn't see any big fuss over it unless it was something over the top, raging party or heavy nightly drinking as opposed to a glass or two of wine after dinner to unwind while the kids watched a movie or after they were tucked in for the night. KWIM? Anyway...

I've seen no mention of dinner whatsoever, but I miss bits + pieces + rely on all you folks at WS to keep me informed. ;)

Mountain_Kat
10-16-2011, 11:40 AM
Something odd I just realized:

According to Jeremy, he was alerted to something being amiss by the fact that the lights were on, the door was unlocked, and the computer room window was open (with screen tampered with). He then goes into the bedroom, wakes up Debbie, asks why the lights are on, door is open, etc. etc. He then asks Debbie where Lisa is, and accordng to Debbie, she says, "In her crib. What are you talking about?".

But in another interview, the story both parents give is that they checked on the boys, then went to check on Lisa and she was missing.

WTH?! Is my memory bad...am I not recalling what the parent's have said correctly?! Both of these statements can't be true!!

iluvmua
10-16-2011, 11:43 AM
Something odd I just realized:

According to Jeremy, he was alerted to something being amiss by the fact that the lights were on, the door was unlocked, and the computer room window was open (with screen tampered with). He then goes into the bedroom, wakes up Debbie, asks why the lights are on, door is open, etc. etc. He then asks Debbie where Lisa is, and accordng to Debbie, she says, "In her crib. What are you talking about?".

But in another interview, the story both parents give is that they checked on the boys, then went to check on Lisa and she was missing.

WTH?! Is my memory bad...am I not recalling what the parent's have said correctly?! Both of these statements can't be true!!

They check on the boys first or they checked on Lisa first?

I'm confused.

Mountain_Kat
10-16-2011, 11:51 AM
"Then I started checking on the kids. I checked on the boys first, and then we checked on her, that's when we realized she was gone."

Baby Lisa's Parents Take Questions From Reporters - YouTube

But I swear, in an interview I heard DB say that when jeremy woke her up, he asked her where was Lisa and she said, "In her crib. What are you talking about."

Am I CRAZY?! I KNOW I heard that!!

iluvmua
10-16-2011, 11:58 AM
"Then I started checking on the kids. I checked on the boys first, and then we checked on her, that's when we realized she was gone."

Baby Lisa's Parents Take Questions From Reporters - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0Lmy0Q5U_k)

But I swear, in an interview I heard DB say that when jeremy woke her up, he asked her where was Lisa and she said, "In her crib. What are you talking about."

Am I CRAZY?! I KNOW I heard that!!

Why is her face not all red from crying?

If That was me My face would be red from crying and I would be wailing so hard I would not be able to hear myself talk.

and tears would be streaming down my face.

Codger
10-16-2011, 12:00 PM
I know this has been asked over and over but I never did see an answer...did they have a landline in their house???

Please take with a box of salt ... It was discussed "somewhere" here + towards the end, stated that, yes they did have a landline. However I don't remember where or have a link.

JMO - It made me wonder why there was any delay on 911 until JI found his work cell, on his person. Why not use the landline, if there was one? So, I'm not so sure. How's that for wishy washy? :D

MOO - As far as checking on the kids... Putting the bits together, it sounded to me like - JI came in, went to shut window, discovered bent screen, went to check on boys first (maybe he found only the one in his room), went to the master bedroom, saw 2nd boy, asked about Lisa (because maybe he saw the open door on the way), then they went together to find the empty crib. I "assumed" he might have "assumed" both the one boy + Lisa were going to be in bed with DB when he found an empty bed + open door, maybe without even looking in the crib - knowing she'd had a cough / cold, DB liked to snuggle with the kids + it was his first night away from home.

Mountain_Kat
10-16-2011, 12:01 PM
Does anyone have a link to the interview of JI and DB where the grandparents are standing behind them?

gliving
10-16-2011, 12:18 PM
Does anyone have a link to the interview of JI and DB where the grandparents are standing behind them?

Is it this one? http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-additional-interview-footage-lisa-irwins-parents-20111011,0,5050853.story

I'm not sure if it's Jeremy's or Debbie's parents.

jjenny
10-16-2011, 12:26 PM
"Then I started checking on the kids. I checked on the boys first, and then we checked on her, that's when we realized she was gone."

Baby Lisa's Parents Take Questions From Reporters - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0Lmy0Q5U_k)

But I swear, in an interview I heard DB say that when jeremy woke her up, he asked her where was Lisa and she said, "In her crib. What are you talking about."

Am I CRAZY?! I KNOW I heard that!!
No, you are not crazy. The interviews are confusing with regard to the exact sequence of events that led to them calling 911. The father also said he checked on the boys first but we know one of the boys was with mother so how could he have checked on the boys?

BetteDavisEyes
10-16-2011, 12:30 PM
Something odd I just realized:

According to Jeremy, he was alerted to something being amiss by the fact that the lights were on, the door was unlocked, and the computer room window was open (with screen tampered with). He then goes into the bedroom, wakes up Debbie, asks why the lights are on, door is open, etc. etc. He then asks Debbie where Lisa is, and accordng to Debbie, she says, "In her crib. What are you talking about?".

But in another interview, the story both parents give is that they checked on the boys, then went to check on Lisa and she was missing.

WTH?! Is my memory bad...am I not recalling what the parent's have said correctly?! Both of these statements can't be true!!

The open window in the computer room - and whether or not DB opened it - is baffling to me. She was going to be at home alone during the night with three children in her care, and that window is a distance from where she would be sleeping. Whether I was at home alone or not, I would never leave a window open that was in the front of the house when I my bedroom is at the rear and on the other side of the house. On this night when she should have made every effort to insure her safety and that of the three children, Deborah seems to have thrown caution to the wind. jmo

Mountain_Kat
10-16-2011, 12:42 PM
Here we find Debbie saying, "He asked why Michael was sleeping with me, and I was like, you know, he's sleeping next to me. And, um, I guess with everything he was saying outloud to me, you know, he thought, wait a minute, Lisa's bedroom door was open, and we always close it when she goes to sleep at night, and he ran back and he checked and he came back in the room and he said, 'where is Lisa? Where is she at?', and I said, "She's in her crib..what do you.."

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/justice-jeanine/index.html#/v/1208764392001/exclusive-parents-of-missing-baby-lisa-speak-out/?playlist_id=163706

So, Jeremy knew Lisa's bedroom door was open, and that was unusual, but according to the other interview JI gave, he checked on the boys first (even though one of the boys was still in bed with Debbie) and THEN checked on Lisa?!

What am I missing here?

Tuffy
10-16-2011, 12:46 PM
The open window in the computer room - and whether or not DB opened it - is baffling to me. She was going to be at home alone during the night with three children in her care, and that window is a distance from where she would be sleeping. Whether I was at home alone or not, I would never leave a window open that was in the front of the house when I my bedroom is at the rear and on the other side of the house. On this night when she should have made every effort to insure her safety and that of the three children, Deborah seems to have thrown caution to the wind. jmo

This is interesting to me, in that she seems not to either care or know about home safety. But she does make sure she closes all the interior doors at night, in case of fire.

This is one precaution I had never heard. I've always kept my interior doors open for air circulation purposes. The bedroom seemed to get too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer if we didn't keep our doors open.

I don't know though, perhaps if I had been in a home fire I might feel differently.

Wise Old Owl
10-16-2011, 12:47 PM
Title of this thread "Gaps in the timeline"

Well here are some that I certainly would like cleared up.

What time did dad leave for work?

What did DB do with the kids for dinner and what time was dinner?

Was a regular school night routine practiced? ie: dinner, homework (I know they are young but even kindergartners have a weedle bit - or at least momma should read to them) then baths?

What was going on from say 6:00 (after DB was back from the store/wine trip) until 7:30 when DB put Lisa down and then what was going on from 7:30 to 10:30 when DB went to bed?

Did dad take a "lunch hour" that night? What did he do? Was he working close enough to stop at home and if so, what time was that?

Did dad call home at any time that night? Maybe just to check to see how everyone was - since it was his first night away?

There is just too much time unaccounted for in the reporting of the events early in the evening. No way to make any kind of "informed" or "educated" guesses on what actually happened to Baby Lisa.

Mountain_Kat
10-16-2011, 12:48 PM
The open window in the computer room - and whether or not DB opened it - is baffling to me. She was going to be at home alone during the night with three children in her care, and that window is a distance from where she would be sleeping. Whether I was at home alone or not, I would never leave a window open that was in the front of the house when I my bedroom is at the rear and on the other side of the house. On this night when she should have made every effort to insure her safety and that of the three children, Deborah seems to have thrown caution to the wind. jmo

Look at the interview where she talks about the window being left open. Again, we see her dissolve into hysterical tears (she can't continue). I'm going to come right out and say it plain...Debbie appears to dissolve into fits of hysteria whenever she doesn't like a question that is being asked. And reporters stop asking the questions and start saying, "I can't imagine how difficult this is for you." Effective, wouldn't you agree?

I think THIS is why we have gaps in the timeline. Because Debbie doesn't WANT a clear timeline.

JMO, MOO, etc. etc.

Murphismo
10-16-2011, 12:51 PM
Well, we have to use logic to start putting what little facts we have together to determine what happed leading up to the missing child. Here's my two cents....... I firmly believe the baby was alive when she went to the store. She obviously bought baby supplies. One could argue that her reasoning was to prove the baby was alive and get that purchase on surveilance. However, she omited this trip to the police instead of barking out "I bought baby supplies" in an effort to hide a death prior to that.... I don't think she wanted the police to know she was buying the wine because I think whatever happened is linked to her being drunk. I think if it were a true abduction she would just say, I was so drunk I slept through it.... I think there was an accident, it happened after the boys went to bed, and she's hiding it...... Like I said, an accident when you are sober leads to no charges, add in intoxication and it's a whole other ballgame with the chance of carrying serious time behind bars - who would want to leave your other child and go to prison if you just lost your baby? Just MHO.....

Abby Normal
10-16-2011, 01:00 PM
No, you are not crazy. The interviews are confusing with regard to the exact sequence of events that led to them calling 911. The father also said he checked on the boys first but we know one of the boys was with mother so how could he have checked on the boys?

Maybe his first thought was that one of the boys had been up, so he accounted for them as his first impulse. Found one in there, check in DB's room and found the other- then realized everyone else was accounted for and wondered, out loud, where Lisa was. Usually if someone is sleeping with mom, it's the youngest- so it's a fair question. Then he/they go in to check on her last because it hadn't occurred to them yet that she would be anywhere else, since cribs usually contain babies so they can't leave.

I'm only offering that there are a great many things that can flavor the way a story is told, and in something as analyzed as this, it won't always make sense until you get every detail explained. I'm sure LE has gotten the full story enough times that they have made more sense of it. They may not believe it, but they probably are making more sense of their story.

gliving
10-16-2011, 01:04 PM
Look at the interview where she talks about the window being left open. Again, we see her dissolve into hysterical tears (she can't continue). I'm going to come right out and say it plain...Debbie appears to dissolve into fits of hysteria whenever she doesn't like a question that is being asked. And reporters stop asking the questions and start saying, "I can't imagine how difficult this is for you." Effective, wouldn't you agree?

I think THIS is why we have gaps in the timeline. Because Debbie doesn't WANT a clear timeline.

JMO, MOO, etc. etc.

Yes, this is true. I keep holding out for hope. Hoping it's a crazed woman who wanted a baby, because that's the best case scenario for a good outcome. But the further we get into this, the gaps that are checked off, I just don't know anymore. She does seem to cry conveniently. I thought perhaps it's because it's emotional for her to remember those awful details. Now I'm not so sure.

I hope LE is questioning her friend that was there that night.

Abby Normal
10-16-2011, 01:10 PM
This is interesting to me, in that she seems not to either care or know about home safety. But she does make sure she closes all the interior doors at night, in case of fire.

This is one precaution I had never heard. I've always kept my interior doors open for air circulation purposes. The bedroom seemed to get too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer if we didn't keep our doors open.

I don't know though, perhaps if I had been in a home fire I might feel differently.

Do we know her intention was fire safety? Because some people do that so the kid won't get woken up, or because they practice a cry-it-out to sleep method and don't want to hear them scream. Some practice it simply because that's what THEIR parents did and they never questioned it. We don't know her reasoning, unless I missed something.

Bon
10-16-2011, 01:32 PM
Please take with a box of salt ... It was discussed "somewhere" here + towards the end, stated that, yes they did have a landline. However I don't remember where or have a link.

JMO - It made me wonder why there was any delay on 911 until JI found his work cell, on his person. Why not use the landline, if there was one? So, I'm not so sure. How's that for wishy washy? :D

MOO - As far as checking on the kids... Putting the bits together, it sounded to me like - JI came in, went to shut window, discovered bent screen, went to check on boys first (maybe he found only the one in his room), went to the master bedroom, saw 2nd boy, asked about Lisa (because maybe he saw the open door on the way), then they went together to find the empty crib. I "assumed" he might have "assumed" both the one boy + Lisa were going to be in bed with DB when he found an empty bed + open door, maybe without even looking in the crib - knowing she'd had a cough / cold, DB liked to snuggle with the kids + it was his first night away from home.


Very wishy washy if they do have a landline. That's why I think LE is so focused on one of the parents..................

panthera
10-16-2011, 01:44 PM
Title of this thread "Gaps in the timeline"

Well here are some that I certainly would like cleared up.

What time did dad leave for work?

What did DB do with the kids for dinner and what time was dinner?

Was a regular school night routine practiced? ie: dinner, homework (I know they are young but even kindergartners have a weedle bit - or at least momma should read to them) then baths?

What was going on from say 6:00 (after DB was back from the store/wine trip) until 7:30 when DB put Lisa down and then what was going on from 7:30 to 10:30 when DB went to bed?

Did dad take a "lunch hour" that night? What did he do? Was he working close enough to stop at home and if so, what time was that?

Did dad call home at any time that night? Maybe just to check to see how everyone was - since it was his first night away?

There is just too much time unaccounted for in the reporting of the events early in the evening. No way to make any kind of "informed" or "educated" guesses on what actually happened to Baby Lisa.
Those are all questions I have as well. Obviously missing is the time he went to work, and how long he was actually at work (as you asked, were there any breaks?). As for the children's dinner, however, that should have been around the time DB was at the store buying wine. What is also odd is having a "movie night" on a night when the children would have been going to school the next day.

:waitasec:

Wise Old Owl
10-16-2011, 01:47 PM
Those are all questions I have as well. Obviously missing is the time he went to work, and how long he was actually at work (as you asked, were there any breaks?). As for the children's dinner, however, that should have been around the time DB was at the store buying wine. What is also odd is having a "movie night" on a night when the children would have been going to school the next day.

:waitasec:
yes, panthera and isn't it very odd that those are some of the EXACT SAME questions we asked in the Cummings case as well?

Everyone keeps comparing this to the Anthony case but I don't see it that way.

This case is almost identical to Haleigh Cummings in almost every detail. Very odd dontcha think?

panthera
10-16-2011, 01:51 PM
yes, panthera and isn't it very odd that those are some of the EXACT SAME questions we asked in the Cummings case as well?

Everyone keeps comparing this to the Anthony case but I don't see it that way.

This case is almost identical to Haleigh Cummings in almost every detail. Very odd dontcha think?

Most definitely agree - almost page for page out of that playbook. The strangest coincidence, in my opinion, is in this case DB sleeping in a room next to where Lisa was, admitting to always having a baby monitor 'on', yet not hearing a sound coming from that room when Lisa is allegedly abducted. Just like the first accounts of Haleigh's case, though, "mom" is sleeping with an older child in her bed. The only difference here is, unlike with Haleigh, that Lisa could NOT have gotten out of the house on her own and wandered off somewhere.

Tuffy
10-16-2011, 02:30 PM
Do we know her intention was fire safety? Because some people do that so the kid won't get woken up, or because they practice a cry-it-out to sleep method and don't want to hear them scream. Some practice it simply because that's what THEIR parents did and they never questioned it. We don't know her reasoning, unless I missed something.

You're right, Abby, I don't know if that was her reasoning, or if was something I heard here. Good catch!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wise Old Owl
10-16-2011, 02:33 PM
Most definitely agree - almost page for page out of that playbook. The strangest coincidence, in my opinion, is in this case DB sleeping in a room next to where Lisa was, admitting to always having a baby monitor 'on', yet not hearing a sound coming from that room when Lisa is allegedly abducted. Just like the first accounts of Haleigh's case, though, "mom" is sleeping with an older child in her bed. The only difference here is, unlike with Haleigh, that Lisa could NOT have gotten out of the house on her own and wandered off somewhere.
yep, yep and yep. Instead of a "bricko block" propping open the back door we have a pushed in screen.

AND even right down to the times - "I seen 3". :eek:

Still want to know dad's times that night. What time went to work? What time took "lunch"? Did he call home at all?

panthera
10-16-2011, 03:04 PM
yep, yep and yep. Instead of a "bricko block" propping open the back door we have a pushed in screen.

AND even right down to the times - "I seen 3". :eek:

Still want to know dad's times that night. What time went to work? What time took "lunch"? Did he call home at all?

Depending on what time he actually left for work, it may be a moot point if he called home later on. According to Judge Jeanine's program last night, the cell phones were always kept on the kitchen counter. If DB couldn't even hear someone abducting her baby on the baby monitor, how would she hear the cell phone ringing if she was in bed?

:waitasec:

BetteDavisEyes
10-16-2011, 03:21 PM
This is interesting to me, in that she seems not to either care or know about home safety. But she does make sure she closes all the interior doors at night, in case of fire.

This is one precaution I had never heard. I've always kept my interior doors open for air circulation purposes. The bedroom seemed to get too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer if we didn't keep our doors open.

I don't know though, perhaps if I had been in a home fire I might feel differently.

DH and my home has a very open floor plan with access doors only to bedrooms, bathrooms, laundry room, and walk-in closet. We never close doors during the night for the same reasons that you've mentioned, nor have I heard about the fire-safety thing. If there were children in my home, I would want to hear them if they cough, have a bad dream, snore, get up to use the bathroom, call out to me, etc. There weren't baby monitors when DH and I were young parents, so we relied on our hearing to alert us when needed during the night.

BetteDavisEyes
10-16-2011, 03:29 PM
Look at the interview where she talks about the window being left open. Again, we see her dissolve into hysterical tears (she can't continue). I'm going to come right out and say it plain...Debbie appears to dissolve into fits of hysteria whenever she doesn't like a question that is being asked. And reporters stop asking the questions and start saying, "I can't imagine how difficult this is for you." Effective, wouldn't you agree?

I think THIS is why we have gaps in the timeline. Because Debbie doesn't WANT a clear timeline.

JMO, MOO, etc. etc.

Yes, there appear to be certain "triggers" to DB's explosive outbursts. If I had time to watch interviews again, I'd take notes. I will take special care to watch DB's reactions to certain questions during the interview tomorrow morning.

marge_rita
10-16-2011, 04:58 PM
Rethinking the few facts we know, I don't understand a parent of a missing child -a missing baby--having a gap in the timeline. The gap imo doesn't bode well for the mom.

imo

Marah
10-16-2011, 05:56 PM
She spent some of her night reprogramming the phones.

I do not find it odd that she let her boys watch a movie. DAd was gone and it helps take up some of the time.

panthera
10-16-2011, 06:02 PM
She spent some of her night reprogramming the phones.

I do not find it odd that she let her boys watch a movie. DAd was gone and it helps take up some of the time.

Guess it would depend what time the boys finally went to bed which is unclear.

MOO

katydid23
10-16-2011, 06:14 PM
Lisa's mother described to "GMA" exactly what happened the last time she saw her daughter:

"[She disappeared] between the time she went to bed and time I went to bed," she said through tears. "I gave her her bottle and put her to sleep, and that was the last when we last saw her."

Does Lisa's mother give us a better timeline to her daughter's disappearance? She didn't say, she disappeared between the time I went to bed and my fiance came home. She is indicating that her daughter "disappeared" while she was still awake.

Link:
http://www.12newsnow.com/story/15631538/baby-lisa-missing-parents-growing-deperate-as-search-continues

Mountain_Kat
10-16-2011, 06:43 PM
Lisa's mother described to "GMA" exactly what happened the last time she saw her daughter:

"[She disappeared] between the time she went to bed and time I went to bed," she said through tears. "I gave her her bottle and put her to sleep, and that was the last when we last saw her."

Does Lisa's mother give us a better timeline to her daughter's disappearance? She didn't say, she disappeared between the time I went to bed and my fiance came home. She is indicating that her daughter "disappeared" while she was still awake.

Link:
http://www.12newsnow.com/story/15631538/baby-lisa-missing-parents-growing-deperate-as-search-continues

BBM

Well, finally DB says something I agree with. So what time did she go to bed? I'm guessing around 3:00. :innocent:

LCoastMom
10-16-2011, 10:25 PM
Lisa's mother described to "GMA" exactly what happened the last time she saw her daughter:

"[She disappeared] between the time she went to bed and time I went to bed," she said through tears. "I gave her her bottle and put her to sleep, and that was the last when we last saw her."

Does Lisa's mother give us a better timeline to her daughter's disappearance? She didn't say, she disappeared between the time I went to bed and my fiance came home. She is indicating that her daughter "disappeared" while she was still awake.

Link:
http://www.12newsnow.com/story/15631538/baby-lisa-missing-parents-growing-deperate-as-search-continues

What happened to D checking on Lisa at 10:30 when she was going to bed??? I cannot imagine not poking my head in to look at my sleeping baby, but to not go in and check on a baby with a head/chest cold? Nope, wouldn't happen....

Aedrys
10-16-2011, 11:08 PM
Lisa's mother described to "GMA" exactly what happened the last time she saw her daughter:

"[She disappeared] between the time she went to bed and time I went to bed," she said through tears. "I gave her her bottle and put her to sleep, and that was the last when we last saw her."

Does Lisa's mother give us a better timeline to her daughter's disappearance? She didn't say, she disappeared between the time I went to bed and my fiance came home. She is indicating that her daughter "disappeared" while she was still awake.

Link:
http://www.12newsnow.com/story/15631538/baby-lisa-missing-parents-growing-deperate-as-search-continues

I hate to say it, but does "I dropped her off between 9 and 1" sound familiar? Not saying she and KC are the same, but I don't like her not knowing at all when this child could have been taken. I would think she could narrow it down more than when she went to bed and when my fiance came home unless she was so drunk she doesn't remember. Not good, Debbie, not good!

yllek
10-16-2011, 11:38 PM
Lisa's mother described to "GMA" exactly what happened the last time she saw her daughter:

"[She disappeared] between the time she went to bed and time I went to bed," she said through tears. "I gave her her bottle and put her to sleep, and that was the last when we last saw her."

Does Lisa's mother give us a better timeline to her daughter's disappearance? She didn't say, she disappeared between the time I went to bed and my fiance came home. She is indicating that her daughter "disappeared" while she was still awake.

Link:
http://www.12newsnow.com/story/15631538/baby-lisa-missing-parents-growing-deperate-as-search-continues

Truth is starting to slip out, imo. I don't think Debbi went to bed that night. i think she got into bed just as her fiancee pulled up to the house. JMO...

Whisperer
10-17-2011, 12:14 AM
What's with the "WE" in that last statement. She explains everything in first person then goes off to third person. This kind of stuff drives me crazy as I saw it in the last two classes I covered in depth.

It appears as if she doesn't want to say it was she, and she only, that saw her the last time. She wants to include other people in the scenario...don't like it, not even a little bit.

carole
10-17-2011, 12:19 AM
What's with the "WE" in that last statement. She explains everything in first person then goes off to third person. This kind of stuff drives me crazy as I saw it in the last two classes I covered in depth.

It appears as if she doesn't want to say it was she, and she only, that saw her the last time. She wants to include other people in the scenario...don't like it, not even a little bit.

I think the "we" could mean Deborah and the other two children.

BetteDavisEyes
10-17-2011, 12:25 AM
Lisa's mother described to "GMA" exactly what happened the last time she saw her daughter:

"[She disappeared] between the time she went to bed and time I went to bed," she said through tears. "I gave her her bottle and put her to sleep, and that was the last when we last saw her."

Does Lisa's mother give us a better timeline to her daughter's disappearance? She didn't say, she disappeared between the time I went to bed and my fiance came home. She is indicating that her daughter "disappeared" while she was still awake.

Link:
http://www.12newsnow.com/story/15631538/baby-lisa-missing-parents-growing-deperate-as-search-continues

Little does Deborah know that her own words will come back to haunt her and bite her in the azz ;)

BetteDavisEyes
10-17-2011, 12:31 AM
I think the "we" could mean Deborah and the other two children.

More like the royal "WE" that absolves everyone from their misdeeds. jmo

Whisperer
10-17-2011, 07:43 AM
What's with the "WE" in that last statement. She explains everything in first person, singular, then goes off to first person, plural. This kind of stuff drives me crazy as I saw it in the last two classes I covered in depth.

It appears as if she doesn't want to say it was she, and she only, that saw her the last time. She wants to include other people in the scenario...don't like it, not even a little bit.

Most people who make statements under stress do not change pronouns. They do not think, feel or speak from anyone else but themselves.

She was not asked a question about how they feel as a couple but was asked a question that should have been answered by her and her alone. When people change midstream like this, a flag goes up in my mind. DB seems to insert her BF's feelings, thoughts into her own, way too often.

Whisperer
10-17-2011, 07:44 AM
What's with the "WE" in that last statement. She explains everything in first person, singular, then goes off to first person, plural. This kind of stuff drives me crazy as I saw it in the last two classes I covered in depth.

It appears as if she doesn't want to say it was she, and she only, that saw her the last time. She wants to include other people in the scenario...don't like it, not even a little bit.

Most people who make statements under stress do not change pronouns. They do not think, feel or speak for anyone else but themselves.

She was not asked a question about how they feel as a couple but was asked a question that should have been answered by her and her alone. When people change midstream like this, a flag goes up in my mind. DB seems to insert her BF's feelings, thoughts into her own, way too often.

Donjeta
10-17-2011, 08:12 AM
What was it that her father said about the gaps in the timeline? Inconsequential? Insignificant? Itty bitty tiny little gaps?

IMO changing the time of last sighting from 10.30 pm to 6.40 or slightly afterwards is not itty bitty in the least, it's pretty important.

Murphismo
10-17-2011, 11:26 AM
What was it that her father said about the gaps in the timeline? Inconsequential? Insignificant? Itty bitty tiny little gaps?

IMO changing the time of last sighting from 10.30 pm to 6.40 or slightly afterwards is not itty bitty in the least, it's pretty important.

yep.... the DEVIL is in the details :waitasec:

Mountain_Kat
10-17-2011, 11:52 AM
What was it that her father said about the gaps in the timeline? Inconsequential? Insignificant? Itty bitty tiny little gaps?

IMO changing the time of last sighting from 10.30 pm to 6.40 or slightly afterwards is not itty bitty in the least, it's pretty important.

I'm telling you, Donjeta...JI knows what happened to this precious little girl.

JMO

w1df10wr
10-17-2011, 04:48 PM
JI last saw Lisa around 5:20pm, is that when he left for work? Was DB back from the store at that time? Link (http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpps/news/missouri-mom-admits-she-was-drunk-when-her-baby-went-missing-dpgonc-20111017_15515541)

Whisperer
10-17-2011, 05:22 PM
Was Lisa dead before 5:30pm?

Mountain_Kat
10-17-2011, 05:43 PM
So DB is caught on camera with Little Brother buying wine at approx. 5:00 pm.

JI leaves the house (for work?) sometime around 5:20.

Between 5:20 and 6:40, DB feeds Lisa, bathes Lisa and puts her to bed. (assuming she cared enough to bathe and feed this child, of course. Maybe that's a lie too, who knows?)

From 6:40 until 10:30, DB drinks with neighbor. Neighbor apparently leaves at 10:30.

Now, DB has previously said she was on the computer that night. So...did this occur AFTER 10:30? The computer is in the "second living room", where the window was open and the screen popped out...so did DB continue the party in the "second livingroom" after the neighbor left? Was she smoking something and that's the reason this window was left open? Did she try to shut it and fall against it, hence the reason the screen was screwy? Is this what one of the boys heard?

And...WHERE WAS LISA DURING ALL THIS?!

And what time did JI really get home that morning?

passionflower
10-17-2011, 05:49 PM
Did JI know that DB planned on getting drunk with her box of wine that night as she came home with it, IF he was there???
Did I hear right that she likes to get drunk 2-3 times a week?
Did he also? Who cared for the kids?
This was his first night turn and she was not worried at all? about anything?

Mountain_Kat
10-17-2011, 05:51 PM
Did JI know that DB planned on getting drunk with her box of wine that night as she came home with it, IF he was there???
Did I hear right that she likes to get drunk 2-3 times a week?
Did he also? Who cared for the kids?
This was his first night turn and she was not worried at all? about anything?

Haven't heard THAT. :waitasec:

passionflower
10-17-2011, 05:51 PM
So DB is caught on camera with Little Brother buying wine at approx. 5:00 pm.

JI leaves the house (for work?) sometime around 5:20.

Between 5:20 and 6:40, DB feeds Lisa, bathes Lisa and puts her to bed. (assuming she cared enough to bathe and feed this child, of course. Maybe that's a lie too, who knows?)

From 6:40 until 10:30, DB drinks with neighbor. Neighbor apparently leaves at 10:30.

Now, DB has previously said she was on the computer that night. So...did this occur AFTER 10:30? The computer is in the "second living room", where the window was open and the screen popped out...so did DB continue the party in the "second livingroom" after the neighbor left? Was she smoking something and that's the reason this window was left open? Did she try to shut it and fall against it, hence the reason the screen was screwy? Is this what one of the boys heard?

And...WHERE WAS LISA DURING ALL THIS?!

And what time did JI really get home that morning?

great post!

marge_rita
10-17-2011, 05:53 PM
So DB is caught on camera with Little Brother buying wine at approx. 5:00 pm.

JI leaves the house (for work?) sometime around 5:20.

Between 5:20 and 6:40, DB feeds Lisa, bathes Lisa and puts her to bed. (assuming she cared enough to bathe and feed this child, of course. Maybe that's a lie too, who knows?)

From 6:40 until 10:30, DB drinks with neighbor. Neighbor apparently leaves at 10:30.

Now, DB has previously said she was on the computer that night. So...did this occur AFTER 10:30? The computer is in the "second living room", where the window was open and the screen popped out...so did DB continue the party in the "second livingroom" after the neighbor left? Was she smoking something and that's the reason this window was left open? Did she try to shut it and fall against it, hence the reason the screen was screwy? Is this what one of the boys heard?

And...WHERE WAS LISA DURING ALL THIS?!

And what time did JI really get home that morning?

:woot:

LCoastMom
10-17-2011, 07:17 PM
So DB is caught on camera with Little Brother buying wine at approx. 5:00 pm.

JI leaves the house (for work?) sometime around 5:20.

Between 5:20 and 6:40, DB feeds Lisa, bathes Lisa and puts her to bed. (assuming she cared enough to bathe and feed this child, of course. Maybe that's a lie too, who knows?)

From 6:40 until 10:30, DB drinks with neighbor. Neighbor apparently leaves at 10:30.

Now, DB has previously said she was on the computer that night. So...did this occur AFTER 10:30? The computer is in the "second living room", where the window was open and the screen popped out...so did DB continue the party in the "second livingroom" after the neighbor left? Was she smoking something and that's the reason this window was left open? Did she try to shut it and fall against it, hence the reason the screen was screwy? Is this what one of the boys heard?

And...WHERE WAS LISA DURING ALL THIS?!

And what time did JI really get home that morning?

Are we taking DB's word for it that she waited until 6:40 to begin drinking? Why wait? She had the wine at her disposal beginning shortly after 5, would a sick toddler prevent her from cracking open that box?...she got so drunk that she doesn't remember if she locked up the house or checked on her baby...I'm guessing if she waited at all, she only waited until JI left for work at 5:20....

Mountain_Kat
10-17-2011, 07:26 PM
Are we taking DB's word for it that she waited until 6:40 to begin drinking? Why wait? She had the wine at her disposal beginning shortly after 5, would a sick toddler prevent her from cracking open that box?...she got so drunk that she doesn't remember if she locked up the house or checked on her baby...I'm guessing if she waited at all, she only waited until JI left for work at 5:20....

I think I heard her say she started having a few glasses of wine "with dinner". I'm not convinced that there WAS dinner that night, but if that's true, I'd think she heated up something in the microwave, since jeremy left at 5:20, and 20 minutes isn't alot of time to cook dinner for 4+ people. Of course, it wouldn't surprise me if Jeremy got stuck making dinner for the kids prior to leaving for work.

I dunno. She started drinking early in the evening, that's the best I can pin it down.

Detective Klimpt
10-17-2011, 08:34 PM
I think it is fact that Deborah didn't drive, correct? That is why she had brother take her to the store around 5pm.

The neighbor can vouch for Deborah's whereabouts until later in the evening, right (around 9+pm?).

Assuming JI truly has an alibi for the hours preceding when he said he arrived home (at 4am?), if Deborah had disposed of Lisa somewhere, how did she do it by herself with no car? Better yet, how could she have done it so cleverly that the FBI, etc. can't find a trace of it? Is she so sinister that she could do this and then come home and pretend to be sleeping and innocent? Is she so sharp intellectually (I think not) that she wouldn't have been broken down in interrogation by now?

I just don't know, so I'm on the fence. The strange stealing baby story is too far fetched for me to believe too. I just do not think Deborah could do something with this child alone, and I think JI's alibi eliminates him from helping her. That leaves her brother, uncle, or another person that would help her. I would think that for 100k, even they would turn her in.

katydid23
10-17-2011, 08:39 PM
The neighbor was there with her 4 yr old daughter. So it would surprise me that she was there until 10:30. Unless maybe her daughter was already asleep and she carried her home. But wouldn't she feel uncomfortable leaving a very drunk woman alone with 3 kids? That makes me wonder if she told someone about the worrisome situation when she took her daughter home.

Who was the father of the 4 yr old? Or did she have a bf or a roomate? Did she tell them that DI was drunk and alone with the kids?

lonetraveler
10-17-2011, 08:49 PM
What I want to know is what time did Jeremy Irwin really get home? We know when he called 911 but when did he actually arrive at his house?

Mountain_Kat
10-17-2011, 08:51 PM
What I want to know is what time did Jeremy Irwin really get home? We know when he called 911 but when did he actually arrive at his house?

And...did he have to punch a time card, or do we just have to take his word for when he arrived home? Was on site with co-workers that night? What do they have to say?

Debthree
10-17-2011, 08:57 PM
I'm really bothered by the children's lack of bedtime routine. It seems off somehow.

The boys don't seem to have a set time for bed which is odd considering they're both of school age and this was a school night. DB says that she put the boys to bed and then went to bed herself at 10.30pm. Isn't that late for two young boys? And it doesn't sound like it was a bed time routine, it sounds like they went to bed because she was going to bed. So if she went to bed at 11.30 is that when they would've gone too? Very strange.

I don't think Lisa had a bed time either. She was wearing regular day clothes which suggests to me that there was no bedtime prepping (like teeth, pyjamas, story, bath etc). An hour (approx) after putting Lisa to bed (at 6.40pm) DB says that Lisa was standing up in her crib. So it sounds to me like she was put into the crib for convenience but she wasn't tired and wasn't truly ready for bed. I'm not saying it's wrong that she was wearing day clothes. Babies don't care what they wear!! But it's certainly very unusual and imo it speaks to the frame of mind of DB. Most families have a routine, even a scattered one.

Day time clothes in bed? 6 & 8 year olds going to bed at 10.30pm on a school night? Mom drinking 5+ glasses of wine on an ordinary Monday night? Not checking Lisa after putting her down? Boy supposedly sleeping with a stray kitten (who would surely urinate or defecate in the bed?)? Door left unlocked? All unusual and not typical family stuff.

Mods, I'm sorry if this post doesn't fit here.

Mountain_Kat
10-17-2011, 09:01 PM
I'm really bothered by the children's lack of bedtime routine. It seems off somehow.

The boys don't seem to have a set time for bed which is odd considering they're both of school age and this was a school night. DB says that she put the boys to bed and then went to bed herself at 10.30pm. Isn't that late for two young boys? And it doesn't sound like it was a bed time routine, it sounds like they went to bed because she was going to bed. So if she went to bed at 11.30 is that when they would've gone too? Very strange.

I don't think Lisa had a bed time either. She was wearing regular day clothes which suggests to me that there was no bedtime prepping (like teeth, pyjamas, story, bath etc). An hour (approx) after putting Lisa to bed (at 6.40pm) DB says that Lisa was standing up in her crib. So it sounds to me like she was put into the crib for convenience but she wasn't tired and wasn't truly ready for bed. I'm not saying it's wrong that she was wearing day clothes. Babies don't care what they wear!! But it's certainly very unusual and imo it speaks to the frame of mind of DB. Most families have a routine, even a scattered one.

Day time clothes in bed? 6 & 8 year olds going to bed at 10.30pm on a school night? Mom drinking 5+ glasses of wine on an ordinary Monday night? Not checking Lisa after putting her down? Boy supposedly sleeping with a stray kitten (who would surely urinate or defecate in the bed?)? Door left unlocked? All unusual and not typical family stuff.

Mods, I'm sorry if this post doesn't fit here.

Well, I'm not a mod, but it fits perfectly here as far as I'm concerned. Excellent post, Deb. I'd forgotten about her saying that an hour after she put Lisa down she was standing up in her crib.

So...when was the last time she saw Lisa, again? If it was really 6:40, then she would have had to have put Lisa in her crib at 5:40. If she put Lisa to bed at 6:40, and Lisa was standing in her crib an hour later, then the last time she would have seen her is 7:40.

Which time is it?

Minette
10-17-2011, 09:06 PM
I'm really bothered by the children's lack of bedtime routine. It seems off somehow.


I don't think Lisa had a bed time either. She was wearing regular day clothes which suggests to me that there was no bedtime prepping (like teeth, pyjamas, story, bath etc). An hour (approx) after putting Lisa to bed (at 6.40pm) DB says that Lisa was standing up in her crib. So it sounds to me like she was put into the crib for convenience but she wasn't tired and wasn't truly ready for bed. I'm not saying it's wrong that she was wearing day clothes. Babies don't care what they wear!! But it's certainly very unusual and imo it speaks to the frame of mind of DB. Most families have a routine, even a scattered one.

Day time clothes in bed? .

BBM

I posted this in another thread, but I do *not* believe that Lisa was necessarily put to bed in 'regular day clothes' because it was reported that she was wearing a short and t-shirt. Mods, please delete this bit if it goes against the rules, but I found this online offer for purple infant girl pajamas featuring shorts and a t-shirt in a kitten pattern pajamas: http://www.bestshoppingcenter.net/babieschildren/products.php?q=Cat+Short+Set+of+Two+Pajamas+for+In fant+and+Toddler+Girls Because an LE spokesperson described the outfit she was wearing in a certain way does NOT make it 100% certain that Lisa was wearing something other than pajamas. MOO.

Debthree
10-17-2011, 09:17 PM
BBM

I posted this in another thread, but I do *not* believe that Lisa was necessarily put to bed in 'regular day clothes' because it was reported that she was wearing a short and t-shirt. Mods, please delete this bit if it goes against the rules, but I found this online offer for purple infant girl pajamas featuring shorts and a t-shirt in a kitten pattern pajamas: http://www.bestshoppingcenter.net/babieschildren/products.php?q=Cat+Short+Set+of+Two+Pajamas+for+In fant+and+Toddler+Girls Because an LE spokesperson described the outfit she was wearing in a certain way does NOT make it 100% certain that Lisa was wearing something other than pajamas. MOO.

That's a great point. I hadn't thought of that. And now that I think about it my boys have always actually preferred pajama shorts to long-leg pajamas (despite our freezing winters!). Having said that, even though they're short-sleeved and short-legs wouldn't they still have been described as pajamas by the people giving out the clothes description? Wouldn't that be important? But still it's definitely a great point and could well explain it.

Debthree
10-17-2011, 09:31 PM
Well, I'm not a mod, but it fits perfectly here as far as I'm concerned. Excellent post, Deb. I'd forgotten about her saying that an hour after she put Lisa down she was standing up in her crib.

So...when was the last time she saw Lisa, again? If it was really 6:40, then she would have had to have put Lisa in her crib at 5:40. If she put Lisa to bed at 6:40, and Lisa was standing in her crib an hour later, then the last time she would have seen her is 7:40.

Which time is it?

According to People Magazine: "she put Lisa down in her room around 6:40 p.m., she says. Only once more soon afterward did she check on Lisa, finding her standing in her crib before tucking her back in." http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20537543,00.html

But according to Peter Alexander, in his interview today, he said: "Deborah now says she last saw her daughter when she put her to bed at 6.40pm".
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44927631#44927631

(Now I don't know where I got the info in my previous post that DB checked Lisa an hour after she put her to bed :waitasec:)

Minette
10-17-2011, 09:54 PM
That's a great point. I hadn't thought of that. And now that I think about it my boys have always actually preferred pajama shorts to long-leg pajamas (despite our freezing winters!). Having said that, even though they're short-sleeved and short-legs wouldn't they still have been described as pajamas by the people giving out the clothes description? Wouldn't that be important? But still it's definitely a great point and could well explain it.


This may sound sexist, and if so I regret that, but.....if a male LE spokesperson described the outfit I think it would be different from how a female LE spokesperson would describe the same thing. I honestly can't say that my husband would differentiate between 'shortie pajamas' and 'shorts and a t-shirt' whereas I would. MOO.

panthera
10-17-2011, 10:08 PM
Well, I'm not a mod, but it fits perfectly here as far as I'm concerned. Excellent post, Deb. I'd forgotten about her saying that an hour after she put Lisa down she was standing up in her crib.

So...when was the last time she saw Lisa, again? If it was really 6:40, then she would have had to have put Lisa in her crib at 5:40. If she put Lisa to bed at 6:40, and Lisa was standing in her crib an hour later, then the last time she would have seen her is 7:40.

Which time is it?

I believe the problem lies with DB not actually remembering when she last saw Lisa, therefore she is filling in the timeline with different stories. It appears obvious now why she failed the polygraph.

MOO

iluvmua
10-17-2011, 10:10 PM
Would NOT surprise me if she is lying about what she said today.

panthera
10-17-2011, 10:14 PM
Would NOT surprise me if she is lying about what she said today.

I do believe the is being truthful about being drunk. She was seen on the store surveillance buying the wine, so someone drank it. I can also see behavioral changes with some people with that level of intoxication. Who knows what happened in the house that night.

:(

MOO

Mountain_Kat
10-18-2011, 08:27 AM
In this video, around the 2:40 mark, JI tells the interviewer that the police said to him that maybe he did something in the 2 hours he was home. 2 HOURS?!

http://video.insider.foxnews.com/v/1222372777001/part-three-mother-of-lisa-irwin-denies-killing-or-selling-her-baby-tells-megyn-kelly-which-questions-caused-her-to-fail-polygraph-test/

Wise Old Owl
10-18-2011, 08:33 AM
In this video, around the 2:40 mark, JI tells the interviewer that the police said to him that maybe he did something in the 2 hours he was home. 2 HOURS?!

http://video.insider.foxnews.com/v/1222372777001/part-three-mother-of-lisa-irwin-denies-killing-or-selling-her-baby-tells-megyn-kelly-which-questions-caused-her-to-fail-polygraph-test/
Yes, Mountain Kat - I caught that yesterday too. Not quite sure what that means. Again, and this is MY BIGGEST PET PEEVE of this case so far, we got no qualifiers to go with that.

2 hours he was home COULD MEAN

He had been home from work for 2 hours BEFORE calling 911. That would put him home at approx. 1:30 instead of the 3:30 time reported.

OR

He had worked a "regular" day that day as well. That would have been something like possibly 7 AM to 3 PM. Come home for 2 hours before leaving for the night shift. And this fits into the facts we have so far. That he was home at approx 5 PM and watching the kids while DB and bro go to the store - and that, finally, we have a time when he left for the night shift - 5:20. Getting home from day shift at 3:20.

OR

Was he only home that day for 2 hours all together? Maybe not working - but out doing something else? Maybe a side job? Maybe helping a relative with a home project or broken car or whatever?

Just another pesky tidbit that's been thrown out there and not necessarily clarified what was meant by it.

keeponsearching
10-18-2011, 08:39 AM
I'm really bothered by the children's lack of bedtime routine. It seems off somehow.

The boys don't seem to have a set time for bed which is odd considering they're both of school age and this was a school night. DB says that she put the boys to bed and then went to bed herself at 10.30pm. Isn't that late for two young boys? And it doesn't sound like it was a bed time routine, it sounds like they went to bed because she was going to bed. So if she went to bed at 11.30 is that when they would've gone too? Very strange.

I don't think Lisa had a bed time either. She was wearing regular day clothes which suggests to me that there was no bedtime prepping (like teeth, pyjamas, story, bath etc). An hour (approx) after putting Lisa to bed (at 6.40pm) DB says that Lisa was standing up in her crib. So it sounds to me like she was put into the crib for convenience but she wasn't tired and wasn't truly ready for bed. I'm not saying it's wrong that she was wearing day clothes. Babies don't care what they wear!! But it's certainly very unusual and imo it speaks to the frame of mind of DB. Most families have a routine, even a scattered one.

Day time clothes in bed? 6 & 8 year olds going to bed at 10.30pm on a school night? Mom drinking 5+ glasses of wine on an ordinary Monday night? Not checking Lisa after putting her down? Boy supposedly sleeping with a stray kitten (who would surely urinate or defecate in the bed?)? Door left unlocked? All unusual and not typical family stuff.

Mods, I'm sorry if this post doesn't fit here.


I think Lisas bedtime was a good one for her age. Just because a baby is not tired does not mean she can stay up. I have not heard what time the boys went to bed. The stray kitten would wake up all night, for being its first night. I agree the night does not seem like the best night of routines, but not every night in my house is to the t with routine. My son likes to wear whatever to bed, my daughter to. My husband puts them to bed, so its up to him to put them in whatever.

luckyme
10-18-2011, 08:41 AM
weird! I saw last night on one of the HLN shows that police have him on video tape working at the construction site. I think it was jvm. I think they have ruled him out completely for some reason. I m not sure which show because jvm was on for two hours last night hers and nancys.:pullhair:

Cazzie
10-18-2011, 08:44 AM
I think it is fact that Deborah didn't drive, correct? That is why she had brother take her to the store around 5pm.

The neighbor can vouch for Deborah's whereabouts until later in the evening, right (around 9+pm?).

Assuming JI truly has an alibi for the hours preceding when he said he arrived home (at 4am?), if Deborah had disposed of Lisa somewhere, how did she do it by herself with no car? Better yet, how could she have done it so cleverly that the FBI, etc. can't find a trace of it? Is she so sinister that she could do this and then come home and pretend to be sleeping and innocent? Is she so sharp intellectually (I think not) that she wouldn't have been broken down in interrogation by now?

I just don't know, so I'm on the fence. The strange stealing baby story is too far fetched for me to believe too. I just do not think Deborah could do something with this child alone, and I think JI's alibi eliminates him from helping her. That leaves her brother, uncle, or another person that would help her. I would think that for 100k, even they would turn her in.
It is my understanding that Jeremy/Deborah have a car, which presumably was left at home when Jeremy went to work in his company van.

Just because she allegedly has no driver's license doesn't mean that she couldn't have driven their car (or any other vehicle), or had someone give her a ride in their vehicle.

Mountain_Kat
10-18-2011, 08:48 AM
Here is what he says verbatim:

" They keep bringing up, you know, that maybe it was an accident, maybe you did it during the 2 hours you were home and she found out about it later. "

Surely LE doesn't mean that this accident might have occurred prior to JI going to work, and DB having found about it then. They have video of a smiling DB and her little brother practically skipping into the grocery to store to buy wine at 5:00 pm. We also know that the neighbor was there from sometime in the early evening to 10:30 at night. Stretches the imagination to think LE might believe a terrible accident occurred at the hands of JI prior to 5:20 (when he supposedly went to work), and Debbie and the neighbor just party hearty. Neighbor suspects nothing? Uh uh. He's talking about AFTER he returned home from work...guarantee it.

Now, if you look at the time the dumpster fire was reported, that was called in at 2:19 (I think). So...if Jeremy Irwin was home for 2 hours before the 911 call was made...

Wise Old Owl
10-18-2011, 08:59 AM
Here is what he says verbatim:

" They keep bringing up, you know, that maybe it was an accident, maybe you did it during the 2 hours you were home and she found out about it later. "

Surely LE doesn't mean that this accident might have occurred prior to JI going to work, and DB having found about it then. They have video of a smiling DB and her little brother practically skipping into the grocery to store to buy wine at 5:00 pm. We also know that the neighbor was there from sometime in the early evening to 10:30 at night. Stretches the imagination to think LE might believe a terrible accident occurred at the hands of JI prior to 5:20 (when he supposedly went to work), and Debbie and the neighbor just party hearty. Neighbor suspects nothing? Uh uh. He's talking about AFTER he returned home from work...guarantee it.

Now, if you look at the time the dumpster fire was reported, that was called in at 2:19 (I think). So...if Jeremy Irwin was home for 2 hours before the 911 call was made...
Good point. But, look at the "she found out about it later". The "later" would tend to lead you to earlier in the day. It has happened where babies are hurt and not show serious signs until hours later. Internal injuries and all - ya know?

But that still doesn't fit because we have DB saying yesterday that she did go in to check on her once and found her standing in her crib. If something had happened to her ealier - she wouldn't have been able to stand.

Its the "2 hours home" that is the odd duck words here.

I would personally like to know what the whole fam damily did for that day. From 8 AM on. The boys attend school. Breakfast? What the 6 hours or so while the boys are at school - what did DB and Lisa do? Lunch? Did Lisa take a nap that afternoon? That maybe why DB put her down so early - I know when mine were that young, if they didn't get an afternoon nap for whatever reason - they went to bed earlier that night.

Wishful thinking that we'll get a detailed timeline from the family for that entire day though.

LCoastMom
10-18-2011, 09:43 AM
I think it is fact that Deborah didn't drive, correct? That is why she had brother take her to the store around 5pm.

The neighbor can vouch for Deborah's whereabouts until later in the evening, right (around 9+pm?).

Assuming JI truly has an alibi for the hours preceding when he said he arrived home (at 4am?), if Deborah had disposed of Lisa somewhere, how did she do it by herself with no car? Better yet, how could she have done it so cleverly that the FBI, etc. can't find a trace of it? Is she so sinister that she could do this and then come home and pretend to be sleeping and innocent? Is she so sharp intellectually (I think not) that she wouldn't have been broken down in interrogation by now?

I just don't know, so I'm on the fence. The strange stealing baby story is too far fetched for me to believe too. I just do not think Deborah could do something with this child alone, and I think JI's alibi eliminates him from helping her. That leaves her brother, uncle, or another person that would help her. I would think that for 100k, even they would turn her in.

I'm not comparing the two cases but look no further than KC Anthony (and so very many others), yes some women lie and it doesn't take a lot of smarts. In the same case Caylee was right down the street from where she was last seen for months - LE, FBI, PI's and professional search teams all missed her.

Strange baby stealing story (which has on occasion happened before) where mom was so intoxicated that she doesn't remember whether or not she checked on her baby (who wasn't feeling well) and the ever changing details of what happened that night...I'm on that fence with you, barely, trying to keep an open mind but I'm dangling so far into the mom did it or knows what happened that a slight breeze is going to push me right off.

LCoastMom
10-18-2011, 10:19 AM
Detective Klimpt:

:welcome5:

toodles11
10-18-2011, 10:46 AM
Here is what he says verbatim:

" They keep bringing up, you know, that maybe it was an accident, maybe you did it during the 2 hours you were home and she found out about it later. "

Surely LE doesn't mean that this accident might have occurred prior to JI going to work, and DB having found about it then. They have video of a smiling DB and her little brother practically skipping into the grocery to store to buy wine at 5:00 pm. We also know that the neighbor was there from sometime in the early evening to 10:30 at night. Stretches the imagination to think LE might believe a terrible accident occurred at the hands of JI prior to 5:20 (when he supposedly went to work), and Debbie and the neighbor just party hearty. Neighbor suspects nothing? Uh uh. He's talking about AFTER he returned home from work...guarantee it.

Now, if you look at the time the dumpster fire was reported, that was called in at 2:19 (I think). So...if Jeremy Irwin was home for 2 hours before the 911 call was made...

New here... this case has convinced me to come out of lurkdom... :seeya:

This scenario is a good one. Maybe they were suggesting (if DB was passed out drunk) that JI came home, did something with Lisa & left to dispose body, came back home at the 330-4am mark and woke up DB and that's where they're suggesting "she found out about it later". JI is really starting to set off my hinky meter.

And I don't think the lack of bedtime routine is any indication of anything. My house doesn't have a traditional bedtime routine but there is a set bedtime, there's just not always the bath/read a book/bed schedule followed that many people seem to assume happens in all homes with young children. Also, I think it's perfectly normal for infants/toddlers to wear "daytime clothes" to bed. Infant clothing & pajamas are basically the same materials and cuts, unless you're talking footed pajamas so I don't think that detail is of any significance. Some people may not see the need to spend the extra money on specific pajamas when infant daytime clothes are just as comfy for the little ones to sleep in. Not trying to defend DB on this one, it's JMO.

I do find Lisa's bedtime particularly early, considering the older kids are up until 1030. It's one thing to put a baby down and have them play around in their crib for a little while but if after an hour that baby is still awake enough to be standing up, I think it would be safe to assume that it was too early to lay her down.

jacy
10-18-2011, 11:05 AM
I do find Lisa's bedtime particularly early, considering the older kids are up until 1030. It's one thing to put a baby down and have them play around in their crib for a little while but if after an hour that baby is still awake enough to be standing up, I think it would be safe to assume that it was too early to lay her down.
-yes, I snipped a bit


Picturing her toddling around her crib is getting to my heart. When my kids were that age we had no regular schedule (ok, by number 3 we did!). But in our case that led to later bedtimes, more likely baby falling asleep on daddy's chest in the living room, etc. NOT putting a little one down that early. JMO but that sounds more like convenience vs bedtime needs.

Mountain_Kat
10-18-2011, 12:07 PM
Not sure where to put this, but in my mind it helps to establish timeline so I'm sticking it here.

In the grocery store video, we see Debbie wearing black capri pants, a grey T-shirt that looks like it says "d-unk", and tennis shoes.

This video was taken early that morning, and it looks like Debbie is wearing jeans and a red sweatshirt.

Hours After Amber Alert, Still No Sign Of Baby - YouTube

So I'm wondering a few things here:

1. Did Debbie change her clothes before going to bed that night?
2. Have detectives recovered the clothes we saw her wearing when she went into the grocery store?
3. And if they haven't recovered those clothes, could these items be the burnt articles of clothing that Debbie says police showed her?

(Tip of the hat to Kamille for causing me to look at the clothing she was wearing in the grocery store.)

yllek
10-24-2011, 10:19 PM
Here's an update based on what we know to date. This is based on all known interviews as of 10.24.2011 p.m., to the best of my ability. I can put pieces together a lot better with a linear picture; just a working time line/tool.

Sunday, Oct 2: Unknown time
Lisa attends a birthday party with her family; party held at extended family member's house.

Sunday, Oct 2 after party to Monday, Oct 3 at 4:47 pm
GAP - NO KNOWN ACTIVITY; NO INFORMATION PROVIDED.

Monday, Oct 3: 4:47 pm
Debbi and her 20 year old brother purchase baby food, baby wipes, and a box of wine at the Fesitival Foods. Jeremy is said to be at home with the children.

Monday, Oct 3: 5:20 pm
Jeremy goes to his second job of the day, he has been home for two hours prior to departing. It's his first ever night shift and it's at a nearby Starbuck's.

Monday, Oct 3: 5:30 pm
Debbi is reportedly cooking a chicken dinner for the neighbor lady and her daughter, along with Debbi's sons. Lisa not mentioned. Not mentioned whether the neighbor and daughter are present during the cooking or if they come over later.

Monday, Oct 3: 6:40 pm
Debbi reportedly puts fussy Lisa to bed. It is not mentioned that the neighbor or the other children saw Lisa. We don't know where Lisa was prior to being put to bed by Debbi.

Monday, Oct 3: sometime shortly after 6:40 pm
Debbi reportedly looks in on Lisa, Lisa is standing in her crib, Debbi lays her back down. This is the last time Lisa Irwin is seen.

Monday, Oct 3: 6:40 pm until 10:30 or 11:00 pm
Debbi and the neighbor sit out on Debbi's front stoop drinking wine.
Debbi's 6 year old son and Jeremy's 8 year old son and the neighbor's 4 year old daughter watch a movie in the boys' room (with bunk beds) while the moms are having "grown up time".
Debbi reportedly gets drunk; possibly enough to black out.
No mention of any of the children during this time frame. No mention of anyone else coming by the house. No mention of either Debbi or the neighbor leaving the house.
*Somehow Debbi acquires a stray kitten during this time.

Monday, Oct 3: 10:00 pm
Jeremy is expected to arrive home from the Starbuck's job. He does not come home. He does not call Debbi or anyone to let Debbi know that he will be more than 5 hours late from his first ever night shift.

Monday, Oct 3: 10:30 or 11:00 pm
The grown up time comes to an end.
Presumably, the neighbor takes her daughter home.
Possibly Debbi is asked if both boys can sleep in her room.
Debbi thinks she turned off all of the lights (later says her drinking buddy neighbor told her so, (they have a code according to Debbi's laywer).
Debbi leaves a window open in the computer room.
Debbi doesn't know if she locked the front door or not.

Monday, Oct 3: 11:00 pmish to Tuesday, Oct 4: 3:45 am
GAP - NO KNOWN ACTIVITY; NO INFORMATION PROVIDED
Debbi does not remember; possible she blacked out. Debbi has not been quoted as saying she was asleep the whole time. She has not been quoted as saying she was not asleep the whole time.

Tuesday, Oct 4: 3:45 am
Jeremy arrives home, 5 hours and 45 minutes past the time expected.
He finds door unlocked, computer window open, screen tampered, all the lights on, Debbi in bed with her six year old and the stray kitten, his 8 year old presumably in his own bed, Lisa's light on and her door open (doors said to always be closed at night), LISA FOUND TO BE MISSING FROM HER CRIB

Tuesday, Oct 4: between 3:45 am and 4:08 am
After some activity (too unclear as to what Jeremy and Debbi did and said first), the parents notice that 3 cell phones are missing from the counter in the kitchen.
The boys are awakened in the confusion and are screaming for Pumpkin.
Jeremy runs to the neighbor across the street and pounds on doors - "has anyone seen Lisa?". Or, Jeremy discovers work cell in pocket and then they look around outside and call 911. Or, Jeremy looks outside but Debbi won't go out back because she's afraid of what she might find. This time frame is unclear; too many sequence changes from parents to pin it down thus far.

Tuesday, Oct 4: 4:08 pm
Jeremy Irwin calls 911, presumably from his work cell phone which he found in his pocket. LE arrives shortly thereafter and an Amber Alert is issued for Lisa Irwin on the morning of Tuesday, Oct. 4, 2011.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If anyone notices any errors, please post and I will make corrections.

If we learn more about any activity to fill in the current gaps, I'll plug them in and post update in this thread.

w1df10wr
11-04-2011, 12:16 PM
Not sure where to put this, but in my mind it helps to establish timeline so I'm sticking it here.

In the grocery store video, we see Debbie wearing black capri pants, a grey T-shirt that looks like it says "d-unk", and tennis shoes.

This video was taken early that morning, and it looks like Debbie is wearing jeans and a red sweatshirt.

Hours After Amber Alert, Still No Sign Of Baby - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xdu-BA6Gf8)

So I'm wondering a few things here:

1. Did Debbie change her clothes before going to bed that night?
2. Have detectives recovered the clothes we saw her wearing when she went into the grocery store?
3. And if they haven't recovered those clothes, could these items be the burnt articles of clothing that Debbie says police showed her?

(Tip of the hat to Kamille for causing me to look at the clothing she was wearing in the grocery store.)

Great questions MK!

Dee10
11-04-2011, 01:48 PM
I wonder if Lisa was fed supper? We know she bought baby food that, but there is no mention of feeding her only a bottle later on. I wonder if the dishes were done after supper? I wonder if LE can determine how many bottles or was she fed breakfast, lunch & dinner that day? Should be some empty baby food jars in the recycle bin or trash.

panthera
11-05-2011, 03:27 PM
6:40pm "fussy baby" in crib; shortly thereafter "fussy baby" falls asleep for the rest of the night? She doesn't wake up needing a diaper change or hungry and start crying? No one checks on her? Huge red flag here!

JI arriving home more than five hours after expected time, with no phone call or contact with DB that he would be late, raises no concern with DB, or is that why she contends she was possibly "blacked out" because it appears unbelievable?

:waitasec:

MOO

matou
11-05-2011, 03:37 PM
The new timeline has JI home at 3:30. So it takes a certain amount of time before he realizes Lisa isn`t there and runs to the neighbor`s, etc. 911 call at 4:08?

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/new-timeline-in-the-disappearance-of-baby-lisa-irwin,-according-to-a-source

3:30 a.m.
-Jeremy Irwin returns home from work.
-Irwin is angered to see lights on and a window screen damaged, but doesn’t immediately notice Baby Lisa is missing.
-A stray cat was sleeping on their bed.
-Facing financial concerns and concerned about electricity bills, he awakens Deborah Bradley to ask why lights are on.
-Deborah Bradley is groggy.
-Irwin checks on Baby Lisa, finding her missing.
-Irwin runs next door, banging on neighbors door, asking if Lisa is there.
-Irwin noticed the family cell phones were missing and called police from his work mobile phone
-Irwin and Bradley grab a flashlight and begin what has now become a month-long search.

I wonder where Bradley searched with this flashlight? I don`t think she actually did any searching at all. I haven`t heard anything really about them searching outside that night. If DB was so drunk, how could she be useful at all after passing out at only 10:30 pm or 5 and 1/2 hours later?

gluestk
11-07-2011, 05:58 PM
yllek,
Great timeline. It's interesting to see that info on one page nice and neat. ty

w1df10wr
11-09-2011, 05:59 PM
Can someone please post the link about the phone call time changing?
Thank you!

ynotdivein
11-09-2011, 06:14 PM
Please continue discussing timeline gaps here:

11/9/11 MSM reports "major change" to timeline (Oct. 4 call)