View Full Version : TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden, believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #30
bessie
10-14-2011, 12:46 AM
Please continue here.
Holly Lynn Bobo was last seen early on the morning of April 13, 2011, outside of her home in Darden, Tennessee. She was seen being led away from the carport of her home toward a wooded area by a man described as approximately 5'8" to 6'0" tall and 200 pounds, wearing camouflage clothing.
Holly Lynn Bobo was last seen wearing a pink shirt and light blue jeans.
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap (http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap)
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/holly-bobo/image_thumb http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/holly-bobo/bobo_h3.jpg/image_thumb
Thread #1 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133271)
Thread #2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133444)
Thread #3 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133530)
Thread #4 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6348742#post6348742)
Thread #5 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6350683)
Thread #6 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6353943&posted=1#post6353943)
Thread #7 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133768)
Thread #8 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133833)
Thread #9 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6364838#post6364838)
Thread #10 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133993)
Thread #11 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134074)
Thread #12 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6377579#post6377579)
Thread #13 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6381250#post6381250)
Thread #14 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134281)
Thread #15 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6387922#post6387922)
Thread #16 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6391824#post6391824)
Thread #17 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6398487#post6398487)
Thread #18 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6404278#post6404278)
Thread #19 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134723)
Thread #20 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6416798#post6416798)
Thread #21 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135053)
Thread #22 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6440388#post6440388)
Thread #23 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6455858#post6455858)
Thread #24 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136778)
Thread #25 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140918)
Thread #26 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146345)
Thread #27 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146749)
Thread #28 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148195&page=16)
Thread #29 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149561&page=24)
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Holly Bobo Map (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=218199748434644937742.0004a0e4115bf271e54ae&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=35.679217,-88.175486&spn=0.007617,0.013057&t=h&z=17)
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Mr. Noatak
10-14-2011, 04:35 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:
I have followed this case closely and I feel that the latest press releases are like Autumn leaves falling from the trees, further obscuring the ground searches and befuddling my fellow sleuths. The most recent timeline is not of investigative use, UNLESS the authorities verify it. Have the police verified this timeline? But there are two critical questions that I wish to ask of my buddies here: were the tracking dogs employed the same day that Holly disappeared? Is there any OFFICIAL report as to whether the dogs tracked scent into the woods or stopped short of the woods?
I ask this so as to clear up some misconceptions. Dogs can track much more effectively in the woods than in a city. The more undergrowth, the better. I could care less if neighbors are tramping around- even a mediocre dog could track a single scent through that. What and when the dogs did and smelled are key to this case. Does anybody have facts regarding this?
Whisperer
10-14-2011, 04:52 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:
I have followed this case closely and I feel that the latest press releases are like Autumn leaves falling from the trees, further obscuring the ground searches and befuddling my fellow sleuths. The most recent timeline is not of investigative use, UNLESS the authorities verify it. Have the police verified this timeline? But there are two critical questions that I wish to ask of my buddies here: were the tracking dogs employed the same day that Holly disappeared? Is there any OFFICIAL report as to whether the dogs tracked scent into the woods or stopped short of the woods?
I ask this so as to clear up some misconceptions. Dogs can track much more effectively in the woods than in a city. The more undergrowth, the better. I could care less if neighbors are tramping around- even a mediocre dog could track a single scent through that. What and when the dogs did and smelled are key to this case. Does anybody have facts regarding this?
According to Mark Fuhrman , the dogs did not track her to the woods. It is said he spoke with an LE dispatcher type person and she relayed that information.
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4661350/frustration-mounts-in-search-for-holly-bobo
Whisperer
10-14-2011, 05:31 AM
This was an interview done in the first few days. Mark makes a good point. You need to rewind to the day before. Who saw her that morning and the night before. Dana says he spoke to her through a closed bdrm door and she told him she wanted money which he offered. He said he left it for her.
Karen says she made her lunch and put Holly's breakfast in the microwave and then left for work.
~n/t~
10-14-2011, 05:50 AM
This was an interview done in the first few days. Mark makes a good point. You need to rewind to the day before. Who saw her that morning and the night before. Dana says he spoke to her through a closed bdrm door and she told him she wanted money which he offered. He said he left it for her.
Karen says she made her lunch and put Holly's breakfast in the microwave and then left for work.
Karen said she saw Holly sitting at the dining room table.
"I leave the house to go to school at around 7," Karen said. "And by that point (Holly) had already gotten up, put her clothes on and was sitting at the dining room table. I fixed her lunch and stuck her breakfast in the microwave, and I left for school."
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20111009/NEWS25/110090330/Final-hours-Holly-Family-friends-police-reconstruct-time-before-Holly-Bobo-s-abduction?odyssey=mod_sectionstories
And Clint saw her with camo guy at 7:50 or shortly thereafter.
~n/t~
10-14-2011, 06:05 AM
The scream.
Does the neighbour ever say it was a woman's scream? The latest article says he heard a scream coming from the Bobo home but I have to look back to see if he ever mentions it was a woman's scream. It could have been a guy (??)
Whisperer
10-14-2011, 06:08 AM
Karen said she saw Holly sitting at the dining room table.
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20111009/NEWS25/110090330/Final-hours-Holly-Family-friends-police-reconstruct-time-before-Holly-Bobo-s-abduction?odyssey=mod_sectionstories
And Clint saw her with camo guy at 7:50 or shortly thereafter.
Yeah, I noticed Karen filled in with seeing her at the dining room table. New information...for some reason, that isn't sitting right with me..just a gut feeling.
Whisperer
10-14-2011, 06:09 AM
My mind is way too cynical to deal with this on an open thread.
Whisperer
10-14-2011, 06:14 AM
The scream.
Does the neighbour ever say it was a woman's scream? The latest article says he heard a scream coming from the Bobo home but I have to look back to see if he ever mentions it was a woman's scream. It could have been a guy (??)
Heck, I just heard he did go over to the Bobo house. What time was that? With all these people around, how the heck did the abductior get away with Holly?
It would have been easier for the abductor to pull his car into the carport and wait for Holly. Pick her up, throw her in his car and drive away. All this walking around on land and forests seems crazy.
Where was Clint's car? Was it in the stall or in the front of the house? He sees them kneeling, sitting in the carport. That would be the time I would have walked over to them to see what was going on. At 7:40 in the am, kneeling on the ground is highly unusual...but then again, I don't live in "Shoot first and ask questions later country".
~n/t~
10-14-2011, 06:15 AM
The scream was never identified if it was female or male. Everyone assumed it was Holly because she's the one missing. Also, LE is focused to the area near the home and anyone hunting that day in the area could be a suspect.
I wonder if the neighbour heard more than a scream? Did he hear gunshots? Maybe it was never reported but LE must have this guy's statement. Is that why Karen panicked? Is that why her friend cried? Is that why the teacher knew what happened? Hearing a gunshot and a scream would make anyone think the worse.
~n/t~
10-14-2011, 06:22 AM
Heck, I just heard he did go over to the Bobo house. What time was that? With all these people around, how the heck did the abductior get away with Holly?
It would have been easier for the abductor to pull his car into the carport and wait for Holly. Pick her up, throw her in his car and drive away. All this walking around on land and forests seems crazy.
Where was Clint's car? Was it in the stall or in the front of the house? He sees them kneeling, sitting in the carport. That would be the time I would have walked over to them to see what was going on. At 7:40 in the am, kneeling on the ground is highly unusual...but then again, I don't live in "Shoot first and ask questions later country".
If the dogs didn't pick up her scent then I have a huge problem with Clint's version of seeing them walk side by side into the woods. I'm already questioning the ridiculous timeline. There is no way all of what he says happened that morning took place in 10 minutes or less.
The friend spoke to Holly shortly after 7 am after Karen left. There are no other non family witnesses after the last phone call between Holly and her friend. I'm including Drew as family.
~n/t~
10-14-2011, 06:25 AM
Yeah we don't know where Clint's car was parked. Does he have one?
~n/t~
10-14-2011, 06:31 AM
If the "kidnapper" hurt/killed Holly in the garage and this was a stranger abduction, he would've left her there. Why would he take an injured or dead Holly into the woods? Makes no sense.
Oriah
10-14-2011, 09:34 AM
If the dogs didn't pick up her scent then I have a huge problem with Clint's version of seeing them walk side by side into the woods. I'm already questioning the ridiculous timeline. There is no way all of what he says happened that morning took place in 10 minutes or less.
The friend spoke to Holly shortly after 7 am after Karen left. There are no other non family witnesses after the last phone call between Holly and her friend. I'm including Drew as family.
BBM:
Question: n/t- are you a dog handler, trainer or LE K9 worker? TIA.
~n/t~
10-14-2011, 10:02 AM
BBM:
Question: n/t- are you a dog handler, trainer or LE K9 worker? TIA.
I didn't realize we had to be one to post an opinion. Are dog handlers the only ones allowed to post about dogs? I've followed cases where dogs were used. Scent dogs, tracking dogs, cadaver dogs and even psychic dogs. I don't have to be an expert to know what these dogs do, how they're trained.
BTW...in this case, I believe the dog (s) more than I believe Clint's version.
Maybe I'll ask a mod if an opinion can only be posted by a professional poster.
JBean
10-14-2011, 10:09 AM
I didn't realize we had to be one to post an opinion. Are dog handlers the only ones allowed to post about dogs? I've followed cases where dogs were used. Scent dogs, tracking dogs, cadaver dogs and even psychic dogs. I don't have to be an expert to know what these dogs do, how they're trained.
BTW...in this case, I believe the dog (s) more than I believe Clint's version.
Maybe I'll ask a mod if an opinion can only be posted by a professional poster.I think Oriah just asked the question- didn't draw any judgment or make any implications.
You made a valid statement-Oriah asked a valid question.
I think it is all good. :)
~n/t~
10-14-2011, 10:17 AM
I think Oriah just asked the question- didn't draw any judgment or make any implications.
You made a valid statement-Oriah asked a valid question.
I think it is all good. :)
Thank you. IMO, it was a condescending question and not the first time I've been challenged. I've been challeged about SAR teams as well. I'll just skip and scroll from now on. Thanks :seeya:
Oriah
10-14-2011, 10:19 AM
I didn't realize we had to be one to post an opinion. Are dog handlers the only ones allowed to post about dogs? I've followed cases where dogs were used. Scent dogs, tracking dogs, cadaver dogs and even psychic dogs. I don't have to be an expert to know what these dogs do, how they're trained.
BTW...in this case, I believe the dog (s) more than I believe Clint's version.
Maybe I'll ask a mod if an opinion can only be posted by a professional poster.
No, you are misunderstanding I think. I actually wanted to know if you were. Opinions I believe are free to be posted by all as long as they are within TOS.
JBean
10-14-2011, 10:26 AM
Misunderstandings happen with the written word all the time. let's get back on topic. Thanks all.
Oriah
10-14-2011, 10:31 AM
Thank you. IMO, it was a condescending question and not the first time I've been challenged. I've been challeged about SAR teams as well. I'll just skip and scroll from now on. Thanks :seeya:
It was not intended as a condescending question, n/t.
I asked because I know how scent work works from a professional standpoint; and was wanting to clarify how the dog(s) used in Holly's case may have not picked up her scent if she was seen headed in a certain direction, under certain weather conditions, in the time frame, using a certain type of dog...etc.
Sorry if you were offended by my question. Again- not my intention.
mountainguy777
10-14-2011, 10:53 AM
It makes alot more sense that Holly was abducted right where the blood was found, and taken in a vehicle right away. The walking into the woods, kneeling in the carport, and other sightings appear to be window dressing for what happened. The question is why?
concentric
10-14-2011, 11:05 AM
IMO: I feel sad for Clint and the family. This is a young man who most likely had no frame of reference to tell him that something was awry, and that his sister would be victimized.
Some of us have been victimized and know that prior to those incidents we experienced, we also had no frame of reference; otherwise, we probably would have had some kind of neon light sign of warning flashing in our consciousness.
Therefore, I have no reason to "suspect" Clint.
mountainguy777
10-14-2011, 11:10 AM
IMO: I feel sad for Clint and the family. This is a young man who most likely had no frame of reference to tell him that something was awry, and that his sister would be victimized.
Some of us have been victimized and know that prior to those incidents we experienced, we also had no frame of reference; otherwise, we probably would have had some kind of neon light sign of warning flashing in our consciousness.
Therefore, I have no reason to "suspect" Clint.
His frame of reference was sound enough to call his mom and ask her about holly, and where she should be. His frame of reference was clear enough after that to grab a gun.
Oriah
10-14-2011, 11:13 AM
Re: n/t's question/thought upthread-
I'd like to go back and address the early media reports of the K9's used early on (the day of Holly's abduction).
There are reports that LE had to wait for a dog(s) to arrive.
That is not uncommon. Unless there was a K9 patrol officer right in the area at the time the call was made, it is actually likely that it would take some time to have a K9 team respond. And it is likely it would have been a tracking/bite dog.
In addition to that, there have been no reports of what scent article was used; so we don't have any knowledge of the trail that was scented on.
There are a lot of conflicting reports in the media, regarding the SAR dog situation. :(
I would very much like folks to understand how the K9 situation could have been severely compromised that morning.
Oriah
10-14-2011, 11:17 AM
IMO: I feel sad for Clint and the family. This is a young man who most likely had no frame of reference to tell him that something was awry, and that his sister would be victimized.
Some of us have been victimized and know that prior to those incidents we experienced, we also had no frame of reference; otherwise, we probably would have had some kind of neon light sign of warning flashing in our consciousness.
Therefore, I have no reason to "suspect" Clint.
I agree.
When there is no frame of reference, as you stated.... most people (imo) are playing catch-up in their mind for a long, long time.
Even with training and experience, I feel like I am often scratching my head and going "What the heck??"
~n/t~
10-14-2011, 11:37 AM
His frame of reference was sound enough to call his mom and ask her about holly, and where she should be. His frame of reference was clear enough after that to grab a gun.
and to preserve the crime scene after the fact. Whata guy! Karen in a panic wanted to go after Holly but Clint stopped her and the rest of them.
"As I was writing my statement, I guess I kind of had a feeling that we might not get Holly back right away," Clint said. "So I was trying to preserve the crime scene and keep it from being disrupted because I knew the only thing we might have would be footprints, and I knew if someone stepped on them, then that's ruined.
"After I had stopped Mom and a few people and said, 'Don't walk up the trail and in the woods,' people started walking up there, so I just sat down in the car and continued writing my statement out," he said. "I wasn't going to be able to stop everyone who was coming up here from walking where they had been."
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20111013/NEWS25/110130314
Carla Lashelle
10-14-2011, 12:01 PM
I didn't realize we had to be one to post an opinion. Are dog handlers the only ones allowed to post about dogs? I've followed cases where dogs were used. Scent dogs, tracking dogs, cadaver dogs and even psychic dogs. I don't have to be an expert to know what these dogs do, how they're trained.
BTW...in this case, I believe the dog (s) more than I believe Clint's version.
Maybe I'll ask a mod if an opinion can only be posted by a professional poster.
one of the local sheriffs depts has stopped using tracking dogs citing their proven inability to provide any reliable assistance and that it wasted time in waiting around for the dogs to be brought to crime scenes. This was at least a year ago. No idea if they ever started using them again after the moratorium. Helicopters are favored now.
I think they can be useful but are also overhyped or over relied on.
In this case its probably fairly obvious that the dogs didnt find any trail anyway or if they did the trail dindt lead anywhere productive. I maintain there was a vehicle close by so that could easily account for the lack of a trail past a certain point.
cluciano63
10-14-2011, 12:04 PM
I can't imagine how much use dogs would really be anyway; it seems a vehicle was used fairly quickly, and if Clint is to be believed, they already know where she went into the woods. And she isn't there now, evidently.
Carla Lashelle
10-14-2011, 12:07 PM
Re: n/t's question/thought upthread-
There are a lot of conflicting reports in the media, regarding the SAR dog situation. :(
I would very much like folks to understand how the K9 situation could have been severely compromised that morning.
I think we know that but there is nothing we can do about it now, after the fact, so its really a moot issue at this point. What is done is done.
Oriah
10-14-2011, 12:25 PM
I think we know that but there is nothing we can do about it now, after the fact, so its really a moot issue at this point. What is done is done.
I agree that what has already happened, has happened- except for my own clarification and analysis of course, which I am admittedly OCD about, lol. The more people that understand the challenges facing SAR dogs and handlers and LE, the better. :)
My other thought is that it is not necessarily a moot point at this point, actually. The blood found at the scene is cadaveric scent.
It's certainly been awhile... but a properly trained HRD K9 could scent off of that. Arduous, but possible. If Holly had an injury, wound or any other scent DNA evidence at the site- and was not Kimstered from the site where she was last seen... seems like we might have a new option to work with. Kwim?
~n/t~
10-14-2011, 12:36 PM
one of the local sheriffs depts has stopped using tracking dogs citing their proven inability to provide any reliable assistance and that it wasted time in waiting around for the dogs to be brought to crime scenes. This was at least a year ago. No idea if they ever started using them again after the moratorium. Helicopters are favored now.
I think they can be useful but are also overhyped or over relied on.
In this case its probably fairly obvious that the dogs didnt find any trail anyway or if they did the trail dindt lead anywhere productive. I maintain there was a vehicle close by so that could easily account for the lack of a trail past a certain point.
I also believe there was a vehicle involved.
mountainguy777
10-14-2011, 12:49 PM
Its weird to see what Clint said about keeping everyone back from the woods as to not contaminate the scene. Is this the same clint that doesn't know if there's a turkey involved? One who hears his phone and voices In the garage, but no scream?
OldSteve
10-14-2011, 01:39 PM
My opinions only, no facts here:
I have followed this case closely and I feel that the latest press releases are like Autumn leaves falling from the trees, further obscuring the ground searches and befuddling my fellow sleuths. The most recent timeline is not of investigative use, UNLESS the authorities verify it. Have the police verified this timeline? But there are two critical questions that I wish to ask of my buddies here: were the tracking dogs employed the same day that Holly disappeared? Is there any OFFICIAL report as to whether the dogs tracked scent into the woods or stopped short of the woods?
I ask this so as to clear up some misconceptions. Dogs can track much more effectively in the woods than in a city. The more undergrowth, the better. I could care less if neighbors are tramping around- even a mediocre dog could track a single scent through that. What and when the dogs did and smelled are key to this case. Does anybody have facts regarding this?
Nice to see you are back here! Enjoy your style!
Can't answer your question though...
Seem we are stuck in a time-warp about details of April 13... not really getting anywhere... not finding Holly....
Carla Lashelle
10-14-2011, 02:05 PM
I agree that what has already happened, has happened- except for my own clarification and analysis of course, which I am admittedly OCD about, lol. The more people that understand the challenges facing SAR dogs and handlers and LE, the better. :)
My other thought is that it is not necessarily a moot point at this point, actually. The blood found at the scene is cadaveric scent.
It's certainly been awhile... but a properly trained HRD K9 could scent off of that. Arduous, but possible. If Holly had an injury, wound or any other scent DNA evidence at the site- and was not Kimstered from the site where she was last seen... seems like we might have a new option to work with. Kwim?
At this point, after 6 months of rain storms, cold, heat, tornados, etc. I do not believe any scent could be followed anywhere. But, IMHO there was no big scent trail to be followed anyway since IMHO there was a vehicle within 50 yards or less of the house that she was put into.
The blood itself is important, however, especially its location (not known for certain) and its amount (not known for certain).
Oriah
10-14-2011, 02:09 PM
I can't imagine how much use dogs would really be anyway; it seems a vehicle was used fairly quickly, and if Clint is to be believed, they already know where she went into the woods. And she isn't there now, evidently.
cluciano63, only using your post to jump off of here... not directed to you at ALL.
I hope no one minds this analogy, b/c this is not related to Holly's situation in any way at all; and therefore completely O/T. But I'd like to describe a missing person situation in order to try and explain what may be a similar situation, as to what may have happened the morning Holly was abducted. Hope that makes sense. :waitasec:
Recent experience, here:
A parent had custody of their very young child for a weekend. Parent takes child to a state park.
Child is reported missing by the parent at a certain- and very specific- location in park. SAR K9's are called out to try and trail child. K9's trail childs' scent to an embankment by water source- and then lose scent. Scent of parent of child who reported the accident, is trailed past that point. Was parent running back to get help after child fell in water source? Was parent responsible for childs' disappearance? Was the child passed off to someone else and taken away in a vehicle? Did the child accidentally fall in the water, which is why the specific dogs out on the trail lost it at the waterline?
Regarding Holly's case- there is not a lot difference here, kwim? It does NOT mean that SAR K9's are ineffective. Just that they are as only as effective as the facts and scents they are provided with. Just like us humans. :)
Oriah
10-14-2011, 02:24 PM
At this point, after 6 months of rain storms, cold, heat, tornados, etc. I do not believe any scent could be followed anywhere. But, IMHO there was no big scent trail to be followed anyway since IMHO there was a vehicle within 50 yards or less of the house that she was put into.
The blood itself is important, however, especially its location (not known for certain) and its amount (not known for certain).
I agree that after 6 months no live trail can effectively be run. But there were several vehicles within 50 yards of the residence at the time- and then a whole bunch more. (?) That does not mean that an HRD scent is not valuable at this point- in fact, I believe the exact opposite. But that's just me, I guess?
Plumeria5
10-14-2011, 03:48 PM
Kind of a forensic/medical question here, I guess. From the puddle of blood, however big that is, could detectives be able to distinguish whether this is from a nose bleed, a stab wound, blunt force trauma, or gun shot? The pattern of the blood would be telling but also wondered if the actual blood itself differs with the type of wound.
MysteryAddict
10-14-2011, 05:54 PM
Its weird to see what Clint said about keeping everyone back from the woods as to not contaminate the scene. Is this the same clint that doesn't know if there's a turkey involved? One who hears his phone and voices In the garage, but no scream?
I repeat my earlier thought-
Is this the same Clint that doesn't yell to the first LE on the scene--
"Help! some guy just took my sister into the woods in that direction!!!"
Almost seems like he didn't want the cops to jump out of their cars and run
immediately into those woods to rescue Holly doesn't it??
R.U.Kidding!
10-14-2011, 05:59 PM
I know NOTHING about SAR dogs, so I won't even go there. However if as some of you have indicated, Holly was taken in a vehicle maybe "50 yards" from where she went into the woods..........
There was a 10 minute window from Clint's 7:50 siting to the 8:00 arrival of first responders, right??
Well don't you think if Holly was moved that quickly from the last place she was seen (going toward the woods), Clint should have been able to see some kind of vehicle for transport.......and if Clint did not see it, wouldn't you think the first responders would of found evidence of tracks from the entry point into the woods? Dog's or no Dogs--I think humans should have been able to figure that out, eh?
I cannot understand how someone who was last seen at 7:50 by her brother, and LE was there 10 minutes later, disappears???? Now I know people tramped all over the damn place, but come on, IN 10 MINUTES????
Plumeria5
10-14-2011, 06:52 PM
275 Swan Johnson Road, Darden TN Real Estate For Sale - 134005 - YouTube
Not the Bobos house but apparently a fairly close neighbor to the south? 275 Swan Johnson Road.
Shows the lay of the land, a pond. Not sure how far this house is from the Bobo's 600 block.
Mr. Noatak
10-14-2011, 06:58 PM
My opinions only, no facts here:
What bugs me about all of the latest "white noise" timeline information is that it seems to be presented only as the personal accounts of the witnesses. Have the police verified these timeline accounts using cell phone records, cell towers, interrogations, polygraphs, etc.? I want to believe this timeline, but who really knows? Furthermore, did the police search all of the buildings and surrounding property on the day that Holly disappeared? Yes or no?
Unfortunately, it sounds like we only have Mark Fuhrman's claim about the behavior of the dogs, without an official confirmation. And a hint (but not an official statement) from the latest reports that a dog or dogs were immediately used.
If an average tracking dog was used the same day that Holly disappeared AND was given an item of hers to sniff first, you could trust it to follow her to the location of the getaway vehicle. If an exceptional bloodhound was used, you could (this has been done) continue to track Holly AFTER she was placed into the vehicle and driven away.
Carla Lashelle
10-14-2011, 06:59 PM
Kind of a forensic/medical question here, I guess. From the puddle of blood, however big that is, could detectives be able to distinguish whether this is from a nose bleed, a stab wound, blunt force trauma, or gun shot? The pattern of the blood would be telling but also wondered if the actual blood itself differs with the type of wound.
There is a difference too between arterial blood, etc. Sadly in this case we have "pools of blood", "flecks of blood" and every imaginable quantity in betwen with no other detail given.
wishuwerehere
10-14-2011, 07:02 PM
I was wondering when did Clint actually realize his sister needed his help? (For me it’s not about whether he knew Holly was being abducted, but when did he realize that she needed HELP?)
When did the light bulb go off for Clint?
1. Was it when KB told him, “that’s not Drew.”
2. Was it when KB told him to grab a loaded pistol.
3. Was it when he walked into the garage/carport and saw a puddle of blood.
4. Was it when the neighbor drove up the driveway and told Clint he/she had heard screams.
5. Was it when the police arrived.
6. Was it when he wrote out his statement.
I wish we could hear Clint’s 911 call. This may give us a glimpse into Clint’s state of mind at that time. When he called 911, was he conveying his own concern for Holly or everyone else’s?
JMO
x_files
10-14-2011, 07:08 PM
There is a difference too between arterial blood, etc. Sadly in this case we have "pools of blood", "flecks of blood" and every imaginable quantity in betwen with no other detail given.
Is it possible they never had it tested by a "blood guy" aka "lab geek"? I would assume the answer would be yes, but I am starting to wonder if anything was investigated.
cluciano63
10-14-2011, 07:21 PM
I was wondering when did Clint actually realize his sister needed his help? (For me it’s not about whether he knew Holly was being abducted, but when did he realize that she needed HELP?)
When did the light bulb go off for Clint?
1. Was it when KB told him, “that’s not Drew.”
2. Was it when KB told him to grab a loaded pistol.
3. Was it when he walked into the garage/carport and saw a puddle of blood.
4. Was it when the neighbor drove up the driveway and told Clint he/she had heard screams.
5. Was it when the police arrived.
6. Was it when he wrote out his statement.
I wish we could hear Clint’s 911 call. This may give us a glimpse into Clint’s state of mind at that time. When he called 911, was he conveying his own concern for Holly or everyone else’s?
JMO
I think the article said #4. That he was about to go toward the woods with his gun when the neighbor appeared and told him about the scream so he stopped and called 911. JMO
wishuwerehere
10-14-2011, 07:30 PM
I think the article said #4. That he was about to go toward the woods with his gun when the neighbor appeared and told him about the scream so he stopped and called 911. JMO
I'm glad he finally called 911 on Holly's behalf; it just seems as though he needed to be prompted to do so.
jmo
MizStery
10-14-2011, 07:51 PM
I was wondering when did Clint actually realize his sister needed his help? (For me it’s not about whether he knew Holly was being abducted, but when did he realize that she needed HELP?)
When did the light bulb go off for Clint?
1. Was it when KB told him, “that’s not Drew.”
2. Was it when KB told him to grab a loaded pistol.
3. Was it when he walked into the garage/carport and saw a puddle of blood.
4. Was it when the neighbor drove up the driveway and told Clint he/she had
heard screams.
5. Was it when the police arrived.
6. Was it when he wrote out his statement.
I wish we could hear Clint’s 911 call. This may give us a glimpse into Clint’s state of mind at that time. When he called 911, was he conveying his own concern for Holly or everyone else’s?
JMO
The answer is #4 as best I can figure out. Please correct me if I am inaccurate in the following paragraph. LE of course is the definitive source for the most accurate information on Holly's Bobo's history. Please no personal attacts because this is just the story as I have pieced it together. MOO
I just joined the forum back on page 41 of thread #29.But, I believe in CB written statement he indicates despite the dog barking and waking him,Holly's car in the driveway(she would have been at school),voices(silhouettes of Holly and Camo man)in garage,a phone call from his mother telling him Camo man is NOT Drew grab a gun and pursue Camo guy and Holly,walking
into the garage and finding pool of blood next to Holly's car. It was only after the neighbors mother drove the 350 yards to his house and said James (her son)heard a scream from the house DID the possibility that Camo man was not Drew occurred to CB. That is when he sprang into action to preserve the exit point of Camo man and Holly into he woods....so LE would have a pristine crime sene.
I probably have something out of sequence and have something that was in one newspaper that a video on another day contradicts but it is the best I can do. If you want a timeline that
nails down events in their correct sequence (with no conflicting testimony)....good luck.
PS I read your Websleuths name and knew you were a Pink Floyd fan. I am a big fan of Roger Waters myself.
~n/t~
10-14-2011, 08:33 PM
My opinions only, no facts here:
What bugs me about all of the latest "white noise" timeline information is that it seems to be presented only as the personal accounts of the witnesses. Have the police verified these timeline accounts using cell phone records, cell towers, interrogations, polygraphs, etc.? I want to believe this timeline, but who really knows? Furthermore, did the police search all of the buildings and surrounding property on the day that Holly disappeared? Yes or no?
Unfortunately, it sounds like we only have Mark Fuhrman's claim about the behavior of the dogs, without an official confirmation. And a hint (but not an official statement) from the latest reports that a dog or dogs were immediately used.
If an average tracking dog was used the same day that Holly disappeared AND was given an item of hers to sniff first, you could trust it to follow her to the location of the getaway vehicle. If an exceptional bloodhound was used, you could (this has been done) continue to track Holly AFTER she was placed into the vehicle and driven away.
In response to your question regarding LE confirming or denying anything? The answer is no. We have do not have confirmation of anything except that TBI investigator Mehr (can't recall what his official title is) said that he trusts initial responders statements and recordings and that they have no reason to lie. <paraphrasing>. Holly's blood was confirmed by her dad and not LE.
In the latest version, they won't even confirm if the lunch bag found was Holly's nor will they confirm if her cell phone was found.
It sounds like they're keeping everything close to their vests.
Peepers
10-14-2011, 08:59 PM
What a depressing situation. Where is this poor girl and why isnt there more attention to it? Why arent the parents on Today or GMA or SOMETHING?
~n/t~
10-14-2011, 09:11 PM
What a depressing situation. Where is this poor girl and why isnt there more attention to it? Why arent the parents on Today or GMA or SOMETHING?
They're fasting. :innocent:
Whisperer
10-14-2011, 09:32 PM
Re: n/t's question/thought upthread-
I'd like to go back and address the early media reports of the K9's used early on (the day of Holly's abduction).
There are reports that LE had to wait for a dog(s) to arrive.
That is not uncommon. Unless there was a K9 patrol officer right in the area at the time the call was made, it is actually likely that it would take some time to have a K9 team respond. And it is likely it would have been a tracking/bite dog.
In addition to that, there have been no reports of what scent article was used; so we don't have any knowledge of the trail that was scented on.
There are a lot of conflicting reports in the media, regarding the SAR dog situation. :(
I would very much like folks to understand how the K9 situation could have been severely compromised that morning.
I would hope bloodhounds would be the first on the scene. There was blood and it should have been tracked. If there was no trail...then Holly left from that carport. Of course we haven't heard one word about bloodhounds...at least I haven't.
Whisperer
10-14-2011, 09:39 PM
Kind of a forensic/medical question here, I guess. From the puddle of blood, however big that is, could detectives be able to distinguish whether this is from a nose bleed, a stab wound, blunt force trauma, or gun shot? The pattern of the blood would be telling but also wondered if the actual blood itself differs with the type of wound.
A puddle of blood is discerning. An artery or very large vein opened would do that. I don't see a nosebleed leaving a puddle because the patient moves about and Holly didn't just stand there and let her nose drip blood in one place. The wound had to be pretty bad, I would think. If she was superficially cut through her clothing, the clothes would absorb the blood and not leave a puddle. She was dripping blood and not moving at the time.
There had to be a trail if this was not the last place she was..:waitasec:
Whisperer
10-14-2011, 09:43 PM
Well, whatever car she left in must have had blood in it.
houndstooth
10-14-2011, 11:06 PM
Re: n/t's question/thought upthread-
I'd like to go back and address the early media reports of the K9's used early on (the day of Holly's abduction).
There are reports that LE had to wait for a dog(s) to arrive.
That is not uncommon. Unless there was a K9 patrol officer right in the area at the time the call was made, it is actually likely that it would take some time to have a K9 team respond. And it is likely it would have been a tracking/bite dog.
In addition to that, there have been no reports of what scent article was used; so we don't have any knowledge of the trail that was scented on.
There are a lot of conflicting reports in the media, regarding the SAR dog situation. :(
I would very much like folks to understand how the K9 situation could have been severely compromised that morning.
AIA if this has been mentioned already.
The Sheriff referred to indecisiveness as to whether to use hot trail dogs (15 minutes), or cold trail dogs for longer periods.
I found that quite strange as it would seem to be no question that it was going to be in excess of 15 minutes and better to err on the side of caution and get the cold trail dogs. Pronto.
I never heard follow up on when they arrived, just MF's earlier statements that the dogs found no trail.
Mr. Noatak
10-15-2011, 04:33 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:
This is my timeline for the morning Holly Bobo disappeared, from newspaper reports. IT IS NOT OFFICIAL! There is no official timeline to my knowledge. Before reading this, note that Holly’s brother apparently did not know that Holly’s boyfriend was across the county hunting turkey that morning. I have tried to avoid interpretation, except where exact times or event sequences must be deduced from the newspaper reports. Some of the events may be simultaneous. This is the best I can do without spending days on it:
4:30 AM (Holly awoke and was in bedroom studying, witnesses unknown)
5:30-5:35 (Holly still in bedroom, witness is father)
5:30-5:35 (Holly’s father leaves for work, witness is himself)
6:30-7:00 (Holly in bedroom and at breakfast table and mother makes a lunch for Holly, witness is mother)
7:00-ish (Holly’s mother leaves for work, witness is herself)
7:00-ish (Holly talking on phone with college girlfriend, witness is girlfriend)
7:30-ish (Holly talked with boyfriend on phone about him being accused of trespassing on her grandmother’s property across the county that morning while turkey hunting, witness is boyfriend)
7:30-ish (a flurry of calls between Holly/Holly’s boyfriend and Holly’s mother about the mistaken trespassing incident, witnesses are boyfriend and mother)
7:30-7:35 (Holly talked with mother on phone, witness is mother)
7:40-ish (Holly going outside to car-possibly 5 minutes earlier than usual so as to not miss a college exam, no witnesses)
7:40 (someone screamed at Holly’s house, male witness to scream is nearest neighbor to Holly’s house)
7:40-ish (male neighbor tells his own mother who also lives with him about hearing the scream)
7:40-ish (male neighbor’s mother calls Holly’s mother at work about the scream, witness is secretary who relays info to mother)
7:50 (Holly’s brother wakes up, witness is himself)
7:50-ish (Holly’s brother notices Holly’s car is still there and calls mother but gets no answer because mother’s phone is not with her, witnesses are himself and secretary)
7:50-ish (mother gets message from secretary and calls son/Holly’s brother who tells his mother about Holly’s car still being there, witnesses are son and mother)
7:50-ish (the alarmed mother calls 911 but is not satisfied that she talked to the right office, witness is Henderson County dispatch)
7:50-ish (Holly is seen being led into woods by a man, witness is brother)
7:50-ish (mother calls son again and son says Holly is walking into woods with a man he thinks is her boyfriend-mother says it cannot be her boyfriend and to call 911 and go outside with a gun and follow them, witnesses are son and mother)
7:50-ish (mother calls 911 again, witness is Decatur County dispatch)
7:50-ish (brother tries to call Holly but gets voicemail, witness is himself)
7:50-ish (brother tries to call Holly’s boyfriend but gets voicemail, witness is himself)
7:50-ish (brother gets a pistol and walks out of house and notices blood by Holly’s car, witness is himself)
8:00 (neighbor woman pulls up to Holly’s house and reports the scream her son heard to Holly’s brother, neighbor woman and Holly’s brother are witnesses for each other)
8:00-ish (brother calls 911, witness is presumably the dispatcher)
8:00-ish (first police car arrives)
The main difficulty with the timeline is the amount of events around 7:50-ish. Since it has been estimated that Holly and the man went into the woods at 7:50, it seems possible that Holly’s brother actually awoke around 7:40 to 7:45, perhaps awoken by the sound of the scream. This would allow ample time for all of the 7:50-ish events to occur.
TobyWong*
10-15-2011, 06:00 AM
Mr. Noatak, Thank You for typing that out.
I think the calls @ the 7:30 make are interesting too. It set something in motion. IMO and I can't figure out what.
Oriah
10-15-2011, 08:25 AM
I would hope bloodhounds would be the first on the scene. There was blood and it should have been tracked. If there was no trail...then Holly left from that carport. Of course we haven't heard one word about bloodhounds...at least I haven't.
Clarification:
A bloodhound is a breed of dog, not necessarily a SAR or HRD dog.
Bloodhounds are, however, commonly used in tracking and trailing work.
If a 1st responder was a K9 officer (which I think is probably the case) the K9 would likely have been trained in tracking, trailing, and bite work.
They would not have scented off of the blood, believe it or not. They would have scented off of the air, or the ground. And in the event of a witnessed abduction from a home, LE would have likely immediately gotten a scent article from the person abducted, in order to increase the K9's ability to trail.
Does that make sense?
Oriah
10-15-2011, 08:31 AM
That would make sense to me. When the sheriff was referring to 'hot trail' dogs, he was referring to a trailing dog. They probably had a police K9 at the ready (or however long it would have taken to have a police K9 team to arrive.)
More 'refined' scent dogs are harder to come by. So they probably had to wait on one. As evidence emerged, LE was probably in quite a quandry.
AIA if this has been mentioned already.
The Sheriff referred to indecisiveness as to whether to use hot trail dogs (15 minutes), or cold trail dogs for longer periods.
I found that quite strange as it would seem to be no question that it was going to be in excess of 15 minutes and better to err on the side of caution and get the cold trail dogs. Pronto.
I never heard follow up on when they arrived, just MF's earlier statements that the dogs found no trail.
TxLady2
10-15-2011, 09:09 AM
I didn't realize we had to be one to post an opinion. Are dog handlers the only ones allowed to post about dogs? I've followed cases where dogs were used. Scent dogs, tracking dogs, cadaver dogs and even psychic dogs. I don't have to be an expert to know what these dogs do, how they're trained.
BTW...in this case, I believe the dog (s) more than I believe Clint's version.
Maybe I'll ask a mod if an opinion can only be posted by a professional poster.
Psychic dogs???
~n/t~
10-15-2011, 09:25 AM
Psychic dogs???
LOL yeah the one used by Gale St. John during the CA case. I call them psychic dogs because they work psychics.
Oriah
10-15-2011, 09:27 AM
Psychic dogs???
TxLady2... yep. Didn't you know??
I've got one in training right now. I reward it with psychic praise. And it alerts with a psychic bark.
It's a very quiet SAR dog. I'm having a hard time training him to communicate his thoughts to his handler. Gosh, I hope the judge is psychic when we go to court and have to produce his psychic alert training records.
:laughcry:
Good lord- on a serious note- I hope the Bobo family is not being harassed by 'psychic' dog handlers in addition to the human psychics. That will truly make me very, very angry.
TxLady2
10-15-2011, 09:30 AM
Clarification:
A bloodhound is a breed of dog, not necessarily a SAR or HRD dog.
Bloodhounds are, however, commonly used in tracking and trailing work.
If a 1st responder was a K9 officer (which I think is probably the case) the K9 would likely have been trained in tracking, trailing, and bite work.
They would not have scented off of the blood, believe it or not. They would have scented off of the air, or the ground. And in the event of a witnessed abduction from a home, LE would have likely immediately gotten a scent article from the person abducted, in order to increase the K9's ability to trail.
Does that make sense?
Can you please elaborate a little on bite work? I have never seen that term before in discussions of scent dogs. Thanks.
~n/t~
10-15-2011, 09:47 AM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/11/article-2047688-0E51792100000578-111_468x490.jpg
~n/t~
10-15-2011, 09:50 AM
Psychic Animals
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/27/psychic-animals-photos_n_655637.html#s117490&title=Oscar_The_Cat
Oriah
10-15-2011, 10:01 AM
Can you please elaborate a little on bite work? I have never seen that term before in discussions of scent dogs. Thanks.
The term 'bite dog' doesn't have anything to do with scent work, lol, which is probably why you haven't heard it. It's a term that is used in LE for K9's who are trained to 'bite' and hold a suspect- either in pursuit of a suspect, or in protection of its' handler. Typically, those dogs are also trained in tracking and trailing- so scent work training is also there. They are usually police K9's- but it is also a sport. HTH.
Oriah
10-15-2011, 10:02 AM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/11/article-2047688-0E51792100000578-111_468x490.jpg
:floorlaugh:
Oriah
10-15-2011, 10:06 AM
n/t I had not seen that pic before- and it just made me laugh so hard I spit out my coffee. I am especially amused by the card layout. Thank you for the morning chuckle.
MizStery
10-15-2011, 10:31 AM
Mr. Noatak, Thank You for typing that out.
I think the calls @ the 7:30 make are interesting too. It set something in motion. IMO and I can't figure out what.
I also appreciate the timeline that Mr. Noatak provided. I have always felt that the cell phone records would be key in capturing people & events as they played out.
I think for me the scream is what set everything else in motion at 7:40. At that critical time James (neighbor) was alerted by a scream from the Bobo home and called his mother,James
mother calls Holly's mother to report scream,dogs or possibly Holly's scream wakes her brother up...he looks out window sees Holly's car calls his mother to ask why(gets no answer). Mr. Noatak's posted time time fills out the rest.
I think Holly's scream at 7:40 and what was happening to her will unlock the mystery. The unwinding of what happened to Holly is frozen at 7:40 because that is the last time her voice
was ever heard. It has to be the key to solving her disappearance. Perhaps the scream is tied to the pool of blood by her car? MOO
birpu
10-15-2011, 11:05 AM
I have been reading this forum from a day or two after Holly disappeared. I have had things to say, but never posted. I'm just curious, does everyone think the scream was definitely Holly? It makes sense with the timeline, of course, but it it a given? There were different descriptions of the scream floating through here at different times. I remember the terms "blood-curdling screams," in the plural at one point - I believe it was taken from a newspaper story.
If she did the screaming, and the bleeding, the unforced "walk to the woods" is very unlikely in my opinion. And these sorts of things make Clint's story sound off. The kneeling figures story - ok. If he did get up at 7:50, and saw them at that time going into the woods, when exactly did he see them kneeling in the garage? And if he did see them kneeling in the garage, was that AFTER she supposedly screamed? It would have to be, because he says he didn't hear a scream. So we have Holly, who has perhaps just emitted blood-curdling screams, kneeling in the garage with someone between 7:40 and 7:50. Closer to 7:50 if that's when he got up..... BUT he said at one point he called his mother regarding the "people" and voices in the garage. When did that call take place? It was a separate call from when he told her they were walking towards the woods. Can these statements he made to the media about what he was doing that morning be added to that timeline to make sense? (He said these things in that first full family interview where Dana got whisked off after mentioning the blood)
And if someone took her away - there HAD to be transport somewhere. It couldn't happen on foot in five minutes before the police arrived with no trail. HOW? So where was the transport? It had to be close to get her in it so quickly. Why didn't the cops find evidence of it? These are big problems for me. They make no sense. Something is very off, but any wayward theories I have had I cannot square with the timeline - because of the scream.
Does anyone know if all cars - including, and especially Drew's, have been examined? There were an awful lot of phone calls that morning - before the scream. BEFORE. I still wonder if there wasn't an accident of some sort. Suddenly we have a gun involved, and Drew is also hunting. You know?
MizStery
10-15-2011, 11:28 AM
I have been reading this forum from a day or two after Holly disappeared. I have had things to say, but never posted. I'm just curious, does everyone think the scream was definitely Holly? It makes sense with the timeline, of course, but it it a given? There were different descriptions of the scream floating through here at different times. I remember the terms "blood-curdling screams," in the plural at one point - I believe it was taken from a newspaper story.
If she did the screaming, and the bleeding, the unforced "walk to the woods" is very unlikely in my opinion. And these sorts of things make Clint's story sound off. The kneeling figures story - ok. If he did get up at 7:50, and saw them at that time going into the woods, when exactly did he see them kneeling in the garage? And if he did see them kneeling in the garage, was that AFTER
she supposedly screamed? It would have to be, because he says he didn't hear a scream. So we have Holly, who has perhaps just emitted blood-curdling screams, kneeling in the garage with someone between 7:40 and 7:50. Closer to 7:50 if that's when he got up..... BUT he said at one point he called his mother regarding the "people" and voices in the garage. When did that call take place? It was a separate call from when he told her they were walking towards the woods. Can these statements he made to the media about what he was doing that morning be added to that timeline to make sense? (He said these things in that first full family interview where Dana got whisked off after mentioning the blood)
And if someone took her away - there HAD to be transport somewhere. It couldn't happen on foot in five minutes before the police arrived with no trail. HOW? So where was the transport? It had to be close to get her in it so quickly. Why didn't the cops find evidence of it? These are big problems for me. They make no sense. Something is very off, but any wayward theories I have had I cannot square with the timeline - because of the scream.
Does anyone know if all cars - including, and especially Drew's, have been examined? There were an awful lot of phone calls that morning - before the scream. BEFORE. I still wonder if there wasn't an accident of some sort. Suddenly we have a gun involved, and Drew is also hunting. You know?
Welcome to the forum. I learned a lot from your post I didn't know about this case. Excellent questions by the way.
Oh, how I wish LE was at liberty to at least release the 911's or the cell phone records. I have gone on record to theorize that since the blood was contaminated we may never have an answer. Holly and her family and friends need resolution. Please tell me that somehow this will be solved.
I read about Holly last April. My husband who never asks about unsolved
crimes asks about Holly. There is something special about her that stays with you. MOO
Oriah
10-15-2011, 11:34 AM
Welcome to the forum. I learned a lot from your post I didn't know about this case. Excellent questions by the way.
Oh, how I wish LE was at liberty to at least release the 911's or the cell phone records. I have gone on record to theorize that since the blood was contaminated we may never have an answer. Holly and her family and friends need resolution. Please tell me that somehow this will be solved.
I read about Holly last April. My husband who never asks about unsolved
crimes asks about Holly. There is something special about her that stays with you. MOO
BBM:
Could you explain this statement a bit more? TIA.
MizStery
10-15-2011, 11:57 AM
BBM:
Could you explain this statement a bit more? TIA.
I do not know very much about CSI..I will sound ignorant..but here goes. Please jump in if you have any knowledge on this subject.
I believe LE preserves a crime scene because of the wealth of information it gives them. Key to this bodily fluids. Florensics can gleam a lot of data from blood collected at a crime scene. But for it to hold up in court it has to be collected and has to be handled in a precise way or it is considered contaminated. There have been some famous televised court cases thrown out where evidence has been destroyed by careless individuals. Also,there is a TV show about the subject(which i have never seen). The blood outside Holly's car
would have been contaminted by individuals at the site. This would have rendered the wealth of information it contained almost worthless. It seems forensics are so critical in court that a key piece of evidence would have been deemed inadmissible. Perhaps the one piece that could solve this case.MOO
Darcyline
10-15-2011, 01:22 PM
The thing that strikes me about that morning is no matter how crazy the story I feel like it is sort of locked in for a timeline unless a TON of people are in on a conspiracy including multiple teachers, secretary, both parents, CB, Holly's friends, and the neighbors, and LE. Like, every major time is recorded by a phone call and outside witnesses. It doesn't leave me a lot of space to think of ideas outside the box-like, if she was dead earlier than everyone says or if it was an accident. If CB accidentally killed her he is the quickest and most efficient killer ever to literally kill her and hide the body and be calling family/911 all in a 10-15 minute time period.
I still don't get how we can have an actual puddle of blood, yet her also walking semi-normally into the woods not being led, helped, or dragged. Or why at least CB stood around and didn't charge into the woods after them. Or why the abductor sat in the garage with her for at least 10 minutes and even with that 10 minutes it didn't help Holly. Like, most abductions seem so fast that in a blink of an eye they are over-someone grabbed from a bed or from a front door or from a side of the road and hauled off before anyone could react. This one? Really?
Just some musings.
~n/t~
10-15-2011, 01:33 PM
The thing that strikes me about that morning is no matter how crazy the story I feel like it is sort of locked in for a timeline unless a TON of people are in on a conspiracy including multiple teachers, secretary, both parents, CB, Holly's friends, and the neighbors, and LE. Like, every major time is recorded by a phone call and outside witnesses. It doesn't leave me a lot of space to think of ideas outside the box-like, if she was dead earlier than everyone says or if it was an accident. If CB accidentally killed her he is the quickest and most efficient killer ever to literally kill her and hide the body and be calling family/911 all in a 10-15 minute time period.
I still don't get how we can have an actual puddle of blood, yet her also walking semi-normally into the woods not being led, helped, or dragged. Or why at least CB stood around and didn't charge into the woods after them. Or why the abductor sat in the garage with her for at least 10 minutes and even with that 10 minutes it didn't help Holly. Like, most abductions seem so fast that in a blink of an eye they are over-someone grabbed from a bed or from a front door or from a side of the road and hauled off before anyone could react. This one? Really?
Just some musings.
If you remove all non family phone calls (excluding Drew), and the 7:40 scream heard by the nieghbour. If we go with the accident theory, it could've happened as early as 7:00 am.
The scream is what stumps me but then again, we don't even know if it was Holly.
Darcyline
10-15-2011, 01:41 PM
It says that she talked to her Mother and Drew around 730-if she was dead a half hour earlier did someone else use her phone to call Mom and Drew, have a short conversation, and hope it tricked LE? That is pretty smooth thinking if you have a half hour or less since you killed someone. Plus, you have to have multiple family members and Drew in on the conspiracy including outside family members who were also getting calls from Mom at that time. All of this to cover up an accident and make everyone cool with covering up the accident in a half hour or less.
Just seems like a lot of people involved in a fairly complex elaborate lie.
Plumeria5
10-15-2011, 01:54 PM
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/11/article-2047688-0E51792100000578-111_468x490.jpg
:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh: Love it!!!
R.U.Kidding!
10-15-2011, 01:57 PM
A puddle of blood is discerning. An artery or very large vein opened would do that. I don't see a nosebleed leaving a puddle because the patient moves about and Holly didn't just stand there and let her nose drip blood in one place. The wound had to be pretty bad, I would think. If she was superficially cut through her clothing, the clothes would absorb the blood and not leave a puddle. She was dripping blood and not moving at the time.
There had to be a trail if this was not the last place she was..:waitasec:
We just heard in the last few days it was a puddle, before that it was (a drop, a spot, flecks, etc). I wouldn't be to quick to take this "puddle" too serious, until we find out just what constitutes a "puddle" in Parsons. Apparently things "are not what they seem" in that neck of the woods. Just sayin!:waitasec:
Plumeria5
10-15-2011, 02:08 PM
I was trying to think of a way the neighbor's son could have pulled this off.
He calls his mom on the way to Holly's and says he hears a scream. Tells her he is on his way to work when he is really about to abduct her. While everyone is racing to the Bobos he is "driving to work". It appears he owns his own construction company so does he really have anyone to report to once he arrives at work? Or is there some fresh concrete or a grave he had already dug? Seems unlikely as that is extremely brazen to alert his mom that something was going on. But who knows??
~n/t~
10-15-2011, 02:36 PM
I was trying to think of a way the neighbor's son could have pulled this off.
He calls his mom on the way to Holly's and says he hears a scream. Tells her he is on his way to work when he is really about to abduct her. While everyone is racing to the Bobos he is "driving to work". It appears he owns his own construction company so does he really have anyone to report to once he arrives at work? Or is there some fresh concrete or a grave he had already dug? Seems unlikely as that is extremely brazen to alert his mom that something was going on. But who knows??
Considering nobody is ruled out, it is a possibility. He's the only one who heard the scream. His mom didn't hear it. Clint didn't hear it. Wish we knew more about the neighbour. We don't even know his age. I thought living with mom would put him in the 20+ but if he owns his own company (do we know that for a fact - I don't recall) then he must be in his 30's or 40's?:waitasec:
wishuwerehere
10-15-2011, 02:42 PM
Regarding all of the phone calls related to Holly (i.e. communicating w/ her directly) that morning - Do we know if any of these calls vere VOICE calls, or were they text only?
Plumeria5
10-15-2011, 02:46 PM
Considering nobody is ruled out, it is a possibility. He's the only one who heard the scream. His mom didn't hear it. Clint didn't hear it. Wish we knew more about the neighbour. We don't even know his age. I thought living with mom would put him in the 20+ but if he owns his own company (do we know that for a fact - I don't recall) then he must be in his 30's or 40's?:waitasec:
His hame is JB right? There is a construction company with his full name, one employee (himself), home construction. Haven't been able to find anything definitive about his age but had read around 40.
Plumeria5
10-15-2011, 02:58 PM
Regarding all of the phone calls related to Holly (i.e. communicating w/ her directly) that morning - Do we know if any of these calls vere VOICE calls, or were they text only?
Her friend, Hannah says her cell was weak so called Holly from the home phone. (around 7am) Guessing that she means land line she couldn't have text so that must have been a voice call.
wishuwerehere
10-15-2011, 03:03 PM
Her friend, Hannah says her cell was weak so called Holly from the home phone. (around 7am) Guessing that she means land line she couldn't have text so that must have been a voice call.
So, the last VOICE call that we know of is around 7:00 a.m. This is a 1 hour window before police arrive, unless we can confirm another VOICE call after the 7:00 a.m. call w/ her friend.
R.U.Kidding!
10-15-2011, 03:45 PM
Considering nobody is ruled out, it is a possibility. He's the only one who heard the scream. His mom didn't hear it. Clint didn't hear it. Wish we knew more about the neighbour. We don't even know his age. I thought living with mom would put him in the 20+ but if he owns his own company (do we know that for a fact - I don't recall) then he must be in his 30's or 40's?:waitasec:
......and we have made it a point to wonder why Clint did not hear the scream, but it seems more importantly, the neighbors mother did not hear the scream either. That would even be stranger, Wasn't he right outside his mothers home, and she wasn't still sleeping??
Question --now we only have neighbor boy/man hearing scream---was it really a scream??
Plumeria5
10-15-2011, 04:20 PM
......and we have made it a point to wonder why Clint did not hear the scream, but it seems more importantly, the neighbors mother did not hear the scream either. That would even be stranger, Wasn't he right outside his mothers home, and she wasn't still sleeping??
Question --now we only have neighbor boy/man hearing scream---was it really a scream??
The plot thickens...
MizStery
10-15-2011, 04:21 PM
I was trying to think of a way the neighbor's son could have pulled this off.
He calls his mom on the way to Holly's and says he hears a scream. Tells her he is on his way to work when he is really about to abduct her. While everyone is racing to the Bobos he is "driving to work". It appears he owns his own construction company so does he really have anyone to report to once he arrives at work? Or is there some fresh concrete or a grave he had already dug? Seems unlikely as that is extremely brazen to alert his mom that something was going on. But who knows??
I am using Mr. Noatek's timeline. 7:40~ James 350 feet from the Bobo's home hears scream,
calls his mother on cell.~ Timeline clock is ticking.... James mother then calls Holly's mother
Holly's mother calls Holly's brother and then 911. Clock ticking~Mother calls Holly's brother back to say man seen with
Holly is not Drew. Holly's brother tells mother Holly and man are entering woods.The rest is in Mr Noatec's timeline.
Based on timeline in above paragraph ....Holly's brother see's Holly entering woods after James heard the scream. If I am using Mr. Noatek's excellent timeline. The scream is perhaps 5 minutes minutes pior to Holly's brother
telling mom on cell that Holly is leaving for the woods with man.
If Holly is seen after the scream what possible reason would James have for claiming he hears scream at 7:40?
I just can't make it work ...the scream has to be at least five minutes pior to CB observing Holly & man entering the woods. Please correct any thing inaccurate in my post. Perhaps I can't see the forest for the trees.MOO
Plumeria5
10-15-2011, 04:25 PM
I am using Mr. Noatek's timeline. 7:40~ James 350 feet from the Bobo's home hears scream, calls his mother on cell.~ Timeline clock is ticking.... James mother then calls Holly's mother Holly's mother calls Holly's brother and then 911. Clock ticking~Mother calls Holly's brother back to say man seen with
Holly is not Drew. Holly's brother tells mother Holly and man are entering woods.The rest is in Mr Noatec's timeline.
Based on timeline in above paragraph ....Holly's brother see's Holly entering woods after James heard the scream. If I am using Mr. Noatek's excellent timeline. The scream is perhaps 5 minutes minutes pior to Holly's brother
telling mom on cell that Holly is leaving for the woods with man.
I just can't make it work ...the scream has to be at least five minutes pior to CB see's Holly & man enter woods. Please correct any thing inaccurate in my post. Perhaps I can't see the forest for the trees.MOO
Maybe he was already at the Bobos hiding when he called?
Oriah
10-15-2011, 04:27 PM
All correct, in my very limited experience. (Not CSI, here- but do know a lot about preserving evidence.)
I guess I was wondering why you thought the site where the blood was located initially was contaminated, and by whom?
TIA for any thoughts on this.
I do not know very much about CSI..I will sound ignorant..but here goes. Please jump in if you have any knowledge on this subject.
I believe LE preserves a crime scene because of the wealth of information it gives them. Key to this bodily fluids. Florensics can gleam a lot of data from blood collected at a crime scene. But for it to hold up in court it has to be collected and has to be handled in a precise way or it is considered contaminated. There have been some famous televised court cases thrown out where evidence has been destroyed by careless individuals. Also,there is a TV show about the subject(which i have never seen). The blood outside Holly's car
would have been contaminted by individuals at the site. This would have rendered the wealth of information it contained almost worthless. It seems forensics are so critical in court that a key piece of evidence would have been deemed inadmissible. Perhaps the one piece that could solve this case.MOO
Plumeria5
10-15-2011, 04:45 PM
Maybe just a coincidence but it seems Holly was leaving for school and JB was leaving for work at almost the same exact time.
cluciano63
10-15-2011, 04:53 PM
Presumably the man who heard the scream arrived at work as scheduled and therefore did not have time to make Holly completely vanish before doing so...or at least, one would think this has been verified.
R.U.Kidding!
10-15-2011, 04:56 PM
Maybe he was already at the Bobos hiding when he called?
:waitasec:OH! Are you saying the neighbor (JB) may be the person involved with Holly's abduction? Do we know anything about this guy?
MizStery
10-15-2011, 04:57 PM
All correct, in my very limited experience. (Not CSI, here- but do know a lot about preserving evidence.)
I guess I was wondering why you thought the site where the blood was located initially was contaminated, and by whom?
TIA for any thoughts on this.
If you have been present at the processing and preserving of crime scenes then even your limited knowledge exceeds mine. But,to answer your question I went to approx. page 43 of thread #29 & found a post that linked the Jackson Sun article but the screen said the story was no longer available. I can only paraphrase what LE said about the blood evidence so take that in consideration. It was something to the effect that LE was so overwhelmed by people just showing up that it made preservation of evidence nearly impossible. I believe Holly's father attempted to cordon off the blood evidence.
But,the scene had already been compromised by people passing by going to the backyard and just milling around.MOO
Plumeria5
10-15-2011, 04:59 PM
:waitasec:OH! Are you saying the neighbor (JB) may be the person involved with Holly's abduction? Do we know anything about this guy?
Just throwing that out there. Seems to own his own construction company, lives in a trailer on mom's property, and I believe I am right in saying they are the Bobo's neighbor to the south.
MizStery
10-15-2011, 05:06 PM
All correct, in my very limited experience. (Not CSI, here- but do know a lot about preserving evidence.)
I guess I was wondering why you thought the site where the blood was located initially was contaminated, and by whom?
TIA for any thoughts on this.
I went back to thead #29 and found a great post by Frogzilla. I copied it and here it is.
Thank's Frogzilla!
http://m.jacksonsun.com/news/article...10130314&f=645
Holly Bobo's family questions early handling of investigation
Here are some snippets-
"A lot of people stuck their nose in law enforcement business that day, and too many people showed up there at one time," Wyatt said. "We were trying to keep people away as best as we could, but when you have a few hundred people showing up, it is hard to do."
Wyatt said the deputies had a hard time keeping people from going into the backyard, but that no one walked around the area where Holly was last seen.
But Clint said people walked all around the area where he last saw his sister and that this was one of his largest concerns.
"As I was writing my statement, I guess I kind of had a feeling that we might not get Holly back right away," Clint said. "So I was trying to preserve the crime scene and keep it from being disrupted because I knew the only thing we might have would be footprints, and I knew if someone stepped on them, then that's ruined.
Wyatt said deputies did not want to enter the area or allow others to do so for fear that they would impair some evidence that might be found and because they were waiting on a search dog and trying to gather information leading them to go a certain direction.
R.U.Kidding!
10-15-2011, 05:13 PM
Presumable the man who heard the scream arrived at work as scheduled and therefore did not have time to make Holly completely vanish before doing so...or at least, one would think this has been verified.
OH , right!! Let's presume "something in this case". After all, Clu, haven't they proven how "efficient" and "by -the-book" this investigation has been so far? Not a loose end in site, LOL!
LE may have this info, but I do not believe they have released that info about the neighbor, just Drew.
cluciano63
10-15-2011, 05:14 PM
Why report the scream if he was the perp? Or at least why not wait until he got to work? And again, if he got to work on time, I don't see how he could be the kidnapper. Surely LE checked him out?
Plumeria5
10-15-2011, 05:19 PM
Why report the scream if he was the perp? Or at least why not wait until he got to work? And again, if he got to work on time, I don't see how he could be the kidnapper. Surely LE checked him out?
He owns his own company so doesn't have to report in to work. Yes, possible that his client says he was there at a certain time. I don't think all abductors think too logically. And again, he may have just been a concerned neighbor. Wish he would have gone and checked on the scream if that was the case.
MizStery
10-15-2011, 05:21 PM
Why report the scream if he was the perp? Or at least why not wait until he got to work? And again, if he got to work on time, I don't see how he could be the kidnapper. Surely LE checked him out?
If they haven't asked for an alibi ...they sure will now.
In all honesty I do believe LE has exhausted that lead.MOO
birpu
10-15-2011, 05:54 PM
I can't buy the suspicious neighbor theory, because Clint claims he saw Holly and perp walking into the woods at 7:50. If that was the neighbor walking her off at 7:50, why in heaven's name would he report a scream to his mother at 7:40 and then go next door and nab Holly? That just makes no sense, folks. Either the scream was Holly and she probably was abducted at that moment by person/s unknown, or the scream was not Holly and we have no idea what happened to her or when exactly it happened. Or the scream was a screech owl, bobcat, fox or mountain lion. All those things make sounds like a woman screaming for her life. Google it.
MizStery
10-15-2011, 06:05 PM
I can't buy the suspicious neighbor theory, because Clint claims he saw Holly and perp walking into the woods at 7:50. If that was the neighbor walking her off at 7:50, why in heaven's name would he report a scream to his mother at 7:40 and then go next door and nab Holly? That just makes no sense, folks. Either the scream was Holly and she probably was abducted at that moment by person/s unknown, or the scream was not Holly and we have no idea what happened to her or when exactly it happened. Or the scream was a screech owl, bobcat, fox or mountain lion. All those things make sounds like a woman screaming for her life. Google it.
How about a herd of stampeding wild turkey's screaming for their lives?:floorlaugh:
Plumeria5
10-15-2011, 06:22 PM
I can't buy the suspicious neighbor theory, because Clint claims he saw Holly and perp walking into the woods at 7:50. If that was the neighbor walking her off at 7:50, why in heaven's name would he report a scream to his mother at 7:40 and then go next door and nab Holly? That just makes no sense, folks. Either the scream was Holly and she probably was abducted at that moment by person/s unknown, or the scream was not Holly and we have no idea what happened to her or when exactly it happened. Or the scream was a screech owl, bobcat, fox or mountain lion. All those things make sounds like a woman screaming for her life. Google it.
That is assuming the timeline of 7:50 is correct. Scream at 7:40, dog waits 10 minutes to bark or Clint sleeps through the barking for 10 minutes, Clint awakens at 7:50. Or in reality does Clint really wake up at 7:40 because the dog is barking after hearing Holly scream. Maybe there is no scream. I am just trying to see it from all angles as nothing is as it seems. Maybe I need a timeout.
wishuwerehere
10-15-2011, 07:11 PM
At 7:30 a.m. there is a “flurry” of calls between Holly, Drew and KB. I would like to know if they were texting one another or actually talking. Because if Holly was only texting, it would be impossible to know if she was actually doing the texting, unless she conveyed something only she would know, or someone witnessed her texting at that time. I’m having a hard time reconciling the timeline in any kind of way until I can find out when was the last time someone heard Holly’s voice. I know some of you may say the scream indicates that is the last time Holly is actually heard, however it has not been confirmed if the scream is Holly’s voice or not. I’m not ruling out the possibility of it being Holly’s scream, but as usual, in this case, I’m searching for confirmation.
And in my experience screech owls, bobcats, and foxes tend to be nocturnal creatures. I also have mistaken a screech owl to sound just like a baby crying in the night in the woods. Creepy.
~n/t~
10-15-2011, 07:24 PM
I went back to thead #29 and found a great post by Frogzilla. I copied it and here it is.
Thank's Frogzilla!
http://m.jacksonsun.com/news/article...10130314&f=645
Holly Bobo's family questions early handling of investigation
Here are some snippets-
"A lot of people stuck their nose in law enforcement business that day, and too many people showed up there at one time," Wyatt said. "We were trying to keep people away as best as we could, but when you have a few hundred people showing up, it is hard to do."
Wyatt said the deputies had a hard time keeping people from going into the backyard, but that no one walked around the area where Holly was last seen.
But Clint said people walked all around the area where he last saw his sister and that this was one of his largest concerns.
"As I was writing my statement, I guess I kind of had a feeling that we might not get Holly back right away," Clint said. "So I was trying to preserve the crime scene and keep it from being disrupted because I knew the only thing we might have would be footprints, and I knew if someone stepped on them, then that's ruined.
Wyatt said deputies did not want to enter the area or allow others to do so for fear that they would impair some evidence that might be found and because they were waiting on a search dog and trying to gather information leading them to go a certain direction.
Wyatt is a local and a pastor. I'll believe TBI before I believe the local guys. He's right up there on my hinky meter.
wishuwerehere
10-15-2011, 07:30 PM
Wyatt is a local and a pastor. I'll believe TBI before I believe the local guys. He's right up there on my hinky meter.
Everything about this case seems to be so convoluted.
The only thing I know for sure is that Holly is missing.
MizStery
10-15-2011, 07:36 PM
Wyatt is a local and a pastor. I'll believe TBI before I believe the local guys. He's right up there on my hinky meter.
Thanks n/t~ for helping me understand who he is..I had no idea. :seeya:
~n/t~
10-15-2011, 07:43 PM
Thanks n/t~ for helping me understand who he is..I had no idea. :seeya:
Here he is at 3:23 mark
http://www.newschannel5.com/story/14445690/family-pleads-for-help-finding-missing-decatur-co-woman?clienttype=printable
MizStery
10-15-2011, 08:00 PM
At 7:30 a.m. there is a “flurry” of calls between Holly, Drew and KB. I would like to know if they were texting one another or actually talking. Because if Holly was only texting, it would be impossible to know if she was actually doing the texting, unless she conveyed something only she would know, or someone witnessed her texting at that time. I’m having a hard time reconciling the timeline in any kind of way until I can find out when was the last time someone heard Holly’s voice. I know some of you may say the scream indicates that is the last time Holly is actually heard, however it has not been confirmed if the scream is Holly’s voice or not. I’m not ruling out the possibility of it being Holly’s scream, but as usual, in this case, I’m searching for confirmation.
And in my experience screech owls, bobcats, and foxes tend to be nocturnal creatures. I also have mistaken a screech owl to sound just like a baby crying
in the night in the woods. Creepy.
We are on the same page. You are right if events were documented on the method of
communication & if we had cell phone records I believe we could answer that question. I am
going to make an assumption that James had an alibi. But,other than the 7:40 scream we still do not know the last person to speak directly to Holly (land phone or cell). If we go by Mr. Naotek's timeline then it was Holly's mother(assuming it was cell and not texting)Am I overlooking something? If non family it was Holly's school friend at around 7AM. I just wanted to repeat this is assuming James has an alibi therefore he would have no motive to make up the scream at 7:40 coming from Holly's home.MOO
birpu
10-15-2011, 09:16 PM
And in my experience screech owls, bobcats, and foxes tend to be nocturnal creatures. I also have mistaken a screech owl to sound just like a baby crying in the night in the woods. Creepy.[/QUOTE]
Well, Tennessee is full of bobcats. Bobcats sound extremely human when they scream. Truly like a woman screaming. They are not nocturnal:
Bobcats can be active day or night but tend to exhibit crepuscular (dawn and dusk) activity. Their activity peaks three hours before sunset until midnight and again between one hour before and four hours after sunrise. They remain active year round and do not hibernate. This from: http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/wildlife/living/living_with_bobcats.htm
Not saying it was a bobcat, but it could have been. If it was an animal the neighbor heard, that would be the most likely one. But the coincidence of it being the morning Holly disappeared makes me think there is a more human connection.
My other scenario about the scream is that it could have been someone seeing Holly in a lump on the floor of the carport and realizing she's injured or worse.
wishuwerehere
10-15-2011, 10:48 PM
And in my experience screech owls, bobcats, and foxes tend to be nocturnal creatures. I also have mistaken a screech owl to sound just like a baby crying in the night in the woods. Creepy.
Well, Tennessee is full of bobcats. Bobcats sound extremely human when they scream. Truly like a woman screaming. They are not nocturnal:
Bobcats can be active day or night but tend to exhibit crepuscular (dawn and dusk) activity. Their activity peaks three hours before sunset until midnight and again between one hour before and four hours after sunrise. They remain active year round and do not hibernate. This from: http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/wildlife/living/living_with_bobcats.htm
Not saying it was a bobcat, but it could have been. If it was an animal the neighbor heard, that would be the most likely one. But the coincidence of it being the morning Holly disappeared makes me think there is a more human connection.
My other scenario about the scream is that it could have been someone seeing Holly in a lump on the floor of the carport and realizing she's injured or worse.[/QUOTE]
Bobcats in my area are crepuscular (I like this word): Of or like twilight; dim. I have seen a bobcat in my front yard and it was right at dusk. I have had neigbors have little dogs disappear and bobcats have been suspected.
wishuwerehere
10-15-2011, 10:52 PM
snipped:
My other scenario about the scream is that it could have been someone seeing Holly in a lump on the floor of the carport and realizing she's injured or worse.
I have thought this as well.
MizStery
10-16-2011, 12:04 AM
Posted by Birpu:
My other scenario about the scream is that it could have been someone seeing Holly in a lump on the floor of the carport and realizing she's injured or worse.
snipped:
I have thought this as well.
Birpu and wishyouwerethere may I ask a question about the above quote.If someone happened on Holly at 7:40 injured or worst case scenaro deceased... what motive would they have concealing their horror (by screaming in shock)from the investigators. Would not the innocent person coming upon Holly quickly realize the urgency to summon paramedics to aid her. Or am I just not connecting the dots. Thanks in advance.
birpu
10-16-2011, 12:17 AM
Ok, I'm afraid to put this out there in this forum, but go ahead and ax me if I shouldn't say this. I wasn't thinking the person "coming upon Holly" was necessarily innocent. Perhaps an accident happened. Perhaps someone shot into the dim morning light at an intruder. Perhaps they realized they instead shot a family member. Screamed in horror.
MizStery
10-16-2011, 12:42 AM
Ok, I'm afraid to put this out there in this forum, but go ahead and ax me if I shouldn't say this. I wasn't thinking the person "coming upon Holly" was necessarily innocent. Perhaps an accident happened. Perhaps someone shot into the dim morning light at an intruder. Perhaps they realized they instead shot a family member. Screamed in horror.
Thank-you for your post.There is nothing in TOS rules that says you cannot have a theory. Now,I understand. I just had not considered that particular event.
OK,I agree your stated theory is possible and will mesh with Mr. Naotek's timeline. As to your
theory on a mountain lion scream... stanger coincidences have occurred. Although not very
likely. I think the scream reported by James at 7:40 is closest to the truth. i just believe James had an alibi and no motive to throw the entire investigation into confusion. Which is not the same as saying that the investigation isn't confusing.:waitasec:
I find it pecular in Mr. Naotek's timeline her brother talked to practically every person in the county mutiple time's but never her. It almost seems like he was intentionly distancing himself from her by a convoluted system of talking to anybody and everybody but her(deliberately avoiding coming in direct contact with her at every turn) Very odd. Just my theories and musing on the timeline.MOO
Mr. Noatak
10-16-2011, 01:30 AM
The thing that strikes me about that morning is no matter how crazy the story I feel like it is sort of locked in for a timeline unless a TON of people are in on a conspiracy including multiple teachers, secretary, both parents, CB, Holly's friends, and the neighbors, and LE. Like, every major time is recorded by a phone call and outside witnesses. It doesn't leave me a lot of space to think of ideas outside the box-like, if she was dead earlier than everyone says or if it was an accident. If CB accidentally killed her he is the quickest and most efficient killer ever to literally kill her and hide the body and be calling family/911 all in a 10-15 minute time period.
I still don't get how we can have an actual puddle of blood, yet her also walking semi-normally into the woods not being led, helped, or dragged. Or why at least CB stood around and didn't charge into the woods after them. Or why the abductor sat in the garage with her for at least 10 minutes and even with that 10 minutes it didn't help Holly. Like, most abductions seem so fast that in a blink of an eye they are over-someone grabbed from a bed or from a front door or from a side of the road and hauled off before anyone could react. This one? Really?
Just some musings.
My opinions only, no facts here:
A timeline with witnessess is useful, as you can see. I agree with some posters that it would be nice to know if a "phone call" was text or voice. I agree with Darcyline that the timeline seems pretty solid and continuous. I like to block out portions of a timeline that have few or no witnessess or study the longest gaps in a timeline. It is likely that the witness times could be up to a few minutes off, but I did my best to maintain the sequential order of events implied by news reports. However, I think the neighbor who heard the scream may have given a fairly accurate time. When you hear a scream AND are leaving for work AND then tell your mother about it- you probably have a good sense of what time it was. I do not disagree with other posters that the scream could be an animal- this is at least a possibility.
But I am inclined to say: regardless of who is the suspect, they had 20 minutes to remove Holly from the area, between 7:40 and 8:00 AM. How they did this depends upon what the tracking dogs found, if they were actually used.
birpu
10-16-2011, 02:12 AM
Mr Noatak,
Where on your timeline would you put CB's call to his mother when he looked out and saw the figures in the garage? He actually stated that he called Karen to figure out who was on their property. It would have to be between 7:35 - the flurry of calls - and 7:50, when he said he saw them walking into the woods.
R.U.Kidding!
10-16-2011, 11:45 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:
A timeline with witnessess is useful, as you can see. I agree with some posters that it would be nice to know if a "phone call" was text or voice. I agree with Darcyline that the timeline seems pretty solid and continuous. I like to block out portions of a timeline that have few or no witnessess or study the longest gaps in a timeline. It is likely that the witness times could be up to a few minutes off, but I did my best to maintain the sequential order of events implied by news reports. However, I think the neighbor who heard the scream may have given a fairly accurate time. When you hear a scream AND are leaving for work AND then tell your mother about it- you probably have a good sense of what time it was. I do not disagree with other posters that the scream could be an animal- this is at least a possibility.
But I am inclined to say: regardless of who is the suspect, they had 20 minutes to remove Holly from the area, between 7:40 and 8:00 AM. How they did this depends upon what the tracking dogs found, if they were actually used.
OK---I cannot get past the "SCREAM"--never could.
1) When scream was initially reported couldn't understand how "Clint did not hear it"--we assumed he was sleeping.
2) Now Neighbor's son hears it, but his own mother does not, and son is living with her? ...and she is wide awake. How can that be?
Forgive me--It would seem the SCREAM is the most important factor in the events of that morning. It establishes the beginning of the timeline we are using.
For me, the scream has to make sense before any theory can be expanded.
The neighbors live 350 yards away from the Bobo's, help me understand why 1 person, only, hears this .....and that person just continues on to work. What kind of a relationship does he have with the Bobo's ? I mean why even bother to call his mom if he isn't concerned enough to check himself.
and , again, don't even get me started on the" 10 minute disappearing with No trace of Holly act". I have absolutely no idea how anyone can make sense out of this mess let alone find Holly!:furious:
birpu
10-16-2011, 12:33 PM
I agree the scream is a big deal. It has always bothered me. From the first day it never made sense with the rest of the story. Maybe it is more accurate to say the story never made sense with the scream.....
But it does seem possible that the neighbor went outside to get in his car and heard the scream, then drove off and called his mother on the way in to work to have her check into it. His mother was probably inside the house. Clint was apparently inside the house, maybe still asleep. So the neighbor's son being the only one to hear a scream is not problematic for me. It is the TIMING of the scream with the other "facts." The other big problem I have is the blood in the carport in conjunction with the scream. Pair that with Holly walking off without a struggle, knowing her brother is home to help. I just have trouble imagining that, myself.
She clearly lost the blood before walking away. Then she was gone. If someone else screamed - well, what if someone carried an accidentally-shot Holly across the yard ("flecks" of blood) and put her down in the carport to tend to her. Perhaps is bending over her in the garage/carport in the early morning hunting hours ...... Someone else comes out to investigate.... screams. Just a thought.
But then there is that odd "walking into the woods" story to contend with.
MizStery
10-16-2011, 12:40 PM
OK---I cannot get past the "SCREAM"--never could.
1) When scream was initially reported couldn't understand how "Clint did not hear it"--we assumed he was sleeping.
2) Now Neighbor's son hears it, but his own mother does not, and son is living with her? ...and she is wide awake. How can that be?
Forgive me--It would seem the SCREAM is the most important factor in the events of that morning. It establishes the beginning of the timeline we are using.
For me, the scream has to make sense before any theory can be expanded.
The neighbors live 350 yards away from the Bobo's, help me understand why 1 person, only, hears this .....and that person just continues on to work. What kind of a relationship does he have with the Bobo's ? I mean why even bother to call his mom if he isn't concerned enough to check himself.
and , again, don't even get me started on the" 10 minute disappearing with No trace of Holly act". I have absolutely no idea how anyone can make sense out of this mess let alone find Holly!:furious:
Here is the link to the timeline at the JacksonSun.com. Unfortunately it gives just a few paragraphs then informs you to view the entire article in Sunday's paper. So unfortunately I cannot give you a link to the entire article.
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/jacksonsun/access/2480682311.html?FMT=FT&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&fmac=63c7f75d10ebe15ab8aa0cb8a3eb0e13&date=Oct+9%2C+2011&author=Jordan+Buie&pub=The+Jackson+Sun&desc=Final+hours+with+Holly%3A+Family%2C+friends%2 C+police+reconstruct+ti
me+before+Holly+Bobo%5C%27s+abduction
I will go by my memory,please posters correct me if any thing I say is inaccurate. An article from he Jackson Sun said that James lived in a mobile home next to his parents which is approx.350 feet from the Bobo's home. James was about to get into his car to go to work. He hears the scream coming from the Bobo home. He calls his mother inside her home and tells her about the scream. James continues to work. James mother calls Holly's mother and the chain of events is in Mr. Noatak's timeline. I believe other posters have watched video or read more details perhaps even giving more details about exactly what James heard.
I feel confident if James has an alibi he is a reliable witness to what exactly happened that morning.I can find no motive for him to mislead authorities. Perhaps even more crucial is his account is independent from the families statements. James provides a critical link as to the exact time and provides continuity in the chaotic retelling of what happened that morning.MOO
R.U.Kidding!
10-16-2011, 12:54 PM
The accidental shooting could be possible--but with that I would expect someone to hear the gunshot, wouldn't you?
I have no doubt that if indeed a scream was heard it was a "human" scream. People in these part of the country certainly should know the difference.
The "blood" in and of itself is problematic--first, was it a drop, flecks, puddle? If it was enough blood to pool in a puddle, then she must have been taken right there in the carport where the injury happened. I say this because puddle, to me , would indicate too much blood to be stopped that fast without leaving some further evidence as she was moved ---anywhere.
So now I also question if Clint ever saw her "walk" anywhere". For all we know someone could have threatened Clint --Maybe Holly went willingly in order to protect Clint?
LOL--See what happens when things don't make sense--my imagination gets the best of me!
OldSteve
10-16-2011, 12:55 PM
My opinions only, no facts here:
A timeline with witnessess is useful, as you can see. I agree with some posters that it would be nice to know if a "phone call" was text or voice. I agree with Darcyline that the timeline seems pretty solid and continuous. I like to block out portions of a timeline that have few or no witnessess or study the longest gaps in a timeline. It is likely that the witness times could be up to a few minutes off, but I did my best to maintain the sequential order of events implied by news reports. However, I think the neighbor who heard the scream may have given a fairly accurate time. When you hear a scream AND are leaving for work AND then tell your mother about it- you probably have a good sense of what time it was. I do not disagree with other posters that the scream could be an animal- this is at least a possibility.
But I am inclined to say: regardless of who is the suspect, they had 20 minutes to remove Holly from the area, between 7:40 and 8:00 AM. How they did this depends upon what the tracking dogs found, if they were actually used.
Great work on the timeline! Also nice to see some new posters here.
Personally, I doubt we will get anything more out of events we have... need some new info to come out...
One question that puzzles me - I would like to see a timeline of events AFTER 8 am. How fast did all the volunteers and other people arrive?
How did so many get the word that something happened so fast?
Could the perp(s) have been involved in getting the word out to get the crime scene flooded with people? Mess up the crime scene - thinking back to the JonBenet Ramsey scene.
wishuwerehere
10-16-2011, 01:30 PM
The accident theory makes sense to me up to a point. Unfortunately, gun accidents happen almost everyday in this country. However, I can’t scale the wall of a cover-up. What would be the motive to cover up an accident, especially if the victim is not a minor?
Darcyline
10-16-2011, 01:33 PM
The scream bothers me too. I just simply do not get how Clint could be sitting in his room to the point that he could hear voices in the garage, but didn't hear a shriek loud enough to reach and alarm neighbors 350+ yards away. I know people here have tried to explain that in various ways saying "sound carries weird" and other stuff, but I am just not comfortable with it.
I also still don't get the timing even within the timeline we have. Like, we have a fairly structured (at least to me-I realize not everyone agrees) timeline for that entire important hour, but the gaps seem insanely significant.
I wonder what type of injury caused a puddle of blood too. A puddle feels like a lot, but a few minutes later she was walking casually into the woods?
Ok, now I am repeating myself.
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 01:43 PM
The accident theory makes sense to me up to a point. Unfortunately, gun accidents happen almost everyday in this country. However, I can’t scale the wall of a cover-up. What would be the motive to cover up an accident, especially if the victim is not a minor?
I don't know the answers to these so just throwing out possibilities:
Would hunting without a license and accidently shooting someone get the person in a lot of trouble? What about not having a valid gun permit or expired one and shooting someone? What if it wasn't an accident?
birpu
10-16-2011, 01:55 PM
There are accidents and there are accidents. I suppose something could happen in an argument that wasn't intended to happen. That might cause someone to want to cover it up. Then once a coverup starts, you sort of have to keep going.....
birpu
10-16-2011, 02:14 PM
Hey, what do you all make of this statement from the recent article in the Jackson Sun, Oct 13? I find it highly interesting, especially the part that I capitalized. Which I would have done in boldface, but I don't know how on my Macbook Air. Anyway:
"Tennessee Bureau of Investigation Special Agent John Mehr said the information his agents recorded that morning did not lead him to believe people coming into the yard hindered the investigation.
"I don't believe that was the case," Mehr said. "We have to believe what was told to us by the initial responders, and the other thing is that WE HAVE A WRITTEN RECORD OF WHAT WE SAW AND WHAT WE WERE TOLD THAT MORNING. OTHER PEOPLE MAY TRY TO REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED OR WHAT THEY SAID, BUT WE HAVE A RECORD OF IT. And I have no doubt the initial responders told us the truth." "
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20111013/NEWS25/110130314
It sure sounds to me like he is saying Clint's (and others'?) statements are on record - and Clint can now recall something else, but he believes what Clint first said, and is hinting that Clint can't quite remember exactly what that was - but he has it. It's recorded. Do you get the same thing from this?
birpu
10-16-2011, 02:28 PM
Just thinking out loud. Then I need to go clear out some yard debris on this fine Sunday before winter strikes. My above post leads me to one conclusion.
"Initial responders" are LE, obviously. That's who Mehr says he believes. So this has to mean there is a discrepancy in what LE was initially told and what was told afterwards. This statement of his also includes the curious bit about the yard being full of people, which he doesn't believe was a problem. He is talking about the back yard at that point. This is in response to a question about the family's concern that evidence was trampled.
OK. What I get from THIS is that he believes a different story than the "walk to the woods" version. If they had been told about a walk to the woods, surely they would have secured that area right away. This takes us back to the very first reporting where she was "dragged" across the carport. Maybe the walk through the backyard to the woods was added later, and he isn't buying it.
Dogface
10-16-2011, 02:33 PM
I have thought about the accident theory more than a couple of times....I have always thought it was possible she could have been shot with a bow and arrow(wouldnt create a lot of blood) and then the person(maybe someone she trusted) convinced her to walk to their car that could have been parked nearby so they could drive her to get help(in the country a lot of times in an emergency you just drive to the hospital instead of waiting for an ambulance)...and perhaps she died on the way to the hospital, and in fear, they dumped her and her belongings.
MizStery
10-16-2011, 03:07 PM
Just thinking out loud. Then I need to go clear out some yard debris on this fine Sunday before winter strikes. My above post leads me to one conclusion.
"Initial responders" are LE, obviously. That's who Mehr says he believes. So this has to mean there is a discrepancy in what LE was initially told and what was told afterwards. This statement of his also includes the curious bit about the yard being full of people, which he doesn't believe was a problem. He is talking about the back yard at that point. This is in response to a question about the family's concern that evidence was trampled.
OK. What I get from THIS is that he believes a different story than the "walk to the woods" version. If they had been told about a walk to the woods, surely
they would have secured that area right away. This takes us back to the very
first reporting where she was "dragged" across the carport. Maybe the walk through the backyard to the woods was added later, and he isn't buying it.
Great interpretation. Everytime I read one of your posts I learn something. I have been following Holly's disappearance since spring. I did not begin to read this forum until late in thread #29. I missed everything in the first interviews
with the family. Thanks to everyone for pointing out discrepancies in retelling
of events.
I cannot speak for Mr. Naotak but do other posters feel documented events given in interviews should be in the timeline i.e. CB in the first interview recalling how he saw Holly and the man kneeling by her car? I think it provides a reference for how CB recollection of that morning has shifted. Sometimes things omitted are just as important as things mentioned in recalling stressful events.
As you can see brevity is not one of my strong suits. MOO
R.U.Kidding!
10-16-2011, 03:20 PM
"Tennessee Bureau of Investigation Special Agent John Mehr said the information his agents recorded that morning did not lead him to believe people coming into the yard hindered the investigation.
What else are they going to say--I doubt we will ever really know the truth.
"I don't believe that was the case," Mehr said. "We have to believe what was told to us by the initial responders, and the other thing is that WE HAVE A WRITTEN RECORD OF WHAT WE SAW AND WHAT WE WERE TOLD THAT MORNING. OTHER PEOPLE MAY TRY TO REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED OR WHAT THEY SAID, BUT WE HAVE A RECORD OF IT. And I have no doubt the initial responders told us the truth." "
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20111013/NEWS25/110130314
It sure sounds to me like he is saying Clint's (and others'?) statements are on record - and Clint can now recall something else, but he believes what Clint first said, and is hinting that Clint can't quite remember exactly what that was - but he has it. It's recorded. Do you get the same thing from this?
Yes, and that strikes me as a pretty scary statement to be made by state LE officials, especially considering it was given to them by the initial responders who are going to cover for themselves.
The only "true" statement ? "Nothing is what it seems", and we continue to wait.
One thing I found interesting in this article (paraphrasing) the church and family were going to pray and fast for Holly's "RELEASE". Maybe just worded wrong then again maybe they know more then we do and Holly is being held captive, but she is still alive..We can hope!
wfgodot
10-16-2011, 03:23 PM
TBI may "have a record of it," but they got the first crucial fact of this case wrong, i.e. whether Holly was walked or forced into the woods.
R.U.Kidding!
10-16-2011, 03:37 PM
Another thing that is of concern if the area around the Bobo house was trampled on, ATV's were used in the woods, and water bottles were brought to the scene and trash discarded or dropped prior to the crime scene being "secured", think about it.
The perp or perps could have been among the searchers, thereby explaining :banghead:any evidence connected to them as part of the "search" not the "crime".
birpu
10-16-2011, 03:47 PM
Well - not trying to cause trouble, but isn't that an assumption, that LE got the "dragged" "walked" part wrong? Maybe they WERE told "dragged." They have not released the transcripts of what exactly was told to them that morning. There is probably a reason for that, and I think that is a pretty strong statement for Mehr to make if he can't back it up. So I'm betting he can. We could just as easily be asking why Clint told one story to LE immediately after the event and then changed it later. But we don't really know if he did or not. It certainly seems Mehr is suggesting that.
When I assume what Mehr just said is fact, it makes sense with their investigation (why they haven't found Holly or her body is hard to understand, though...). When I assume the story lines from Clint over the last two months since he's been talking are true - I get more confused. I'm still trying to accept his versions as true, but it is hard - very hard - to make sense of what he says, and he has changed his story in public even since he started talking.
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 03:50 PM
TBI may "have a record of it," but they got the first crucial fact of this case wrong, i.e. whether Holly was walked or forced into the woods.
Clint made a written statement so that should clear that up. I don't think TBI got it wrong.
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 03:53 PM
I have thought about the accident theory more than a couple of times....I have always thought it was possible she could have been shot with a bow and arrow(wouldnt create a lot of blood) and then the person(maybe someone she trusted) convinced her to walk to their car that could have been parked nearby so they could drive her to get help(in the country a lot of times in an emergency you just drive to the hospital instead of waiting for an ambulance)...and perhaps she died on the way to the hospital, and in fear, they dumped her and her belongings.
or buried her...by a church, imo. Bow and arrow makes sense. It would explain not hearing a gunshot. It reminds me of a case that I saw on 48 hours. I don't recall the names off the top of my head but the husband was convicted of murder. He (and his defense) said it was an accident.
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 03:57 PM
Another thing that is of concern if the area around the Bobo house was trampled on, ATV's were used in the woods, and water bottles were brought to the scene and trash discarded or dropped prior to the crime scene being "secured", think about it.
The perp or perps could have been among the searchers, thereby explaining :banghead:any evidence connected to them as part of the "search" not the "crime".
Yes and Clint is making sure we know that the evidence may have been tampered with.
wfgodot
10-16-2011, 04:01 PM
If TBI didn't get the "forced"/"walked" wrong, why does their first press release mention "dragged," (excuse me - "drug") yet in a day or so they were pitching the "walked" story? They're in charge of the official narrative, not Clint. At the very least they were cavalierly premature in releasing information, no matter what they had "recorded." This dichotomy might be seen as the Original Sin of this case (well, were it not for leaving the perimeter unsecured after LE arrived on the scene).
SmoothOperator
10-16-2011, 04:27 PM
4:30am*Holly awoke to study for an exam @8am. She studied in her room, alone, on her bed, and with the door shut..(time verified only via Holly's telling her mom later that morning)
5:30am*Dana stops at Holly's bedroom door and speaks to Holly thru her closed door asking did she need any money. She replies yes and he leaves it for her on kitchen counter.
5:35am*Dana leaves for work.
5:35am*Karen awoke and went into Holly's room to speak with her. Holly was studying on her bed.
Just shy of 7:00am*Holly is now studying at the kitchen table. Karen packs Holly's lunch and puts her breakfast in the microwave.
7:00am*Karen leaves to go to work(26 min travel time to work)
7:00am*Hannah calls Holly from her home landline on Holly's cell.. Holly indicates she is going to eat her breakfast and put her shoes on to leave.
Almost 7:30am*Holly's at the kitchen table studying when she receives a call from Drew. He proceeds to tell her of the cousin not recognizing him and wasn't giving permission for he and his dad to hunt on her grandma's 60acres located across the county.
7:30-7:35am*A flurry of calls take place between Holly, Drew, and Karen discussing the incident of Drew's not being recognized to hunt grandma's property.
7:35am*Karen speaks to Holly for the last time via cell phone.<Noted that Clint was still in bed asleep.>.
7:40am*James Barnes(neighbor to the south)Hears a scream from the Bobo's house. He alerts his mom(who lived there as well) and then left for work.
Around 7:40am*Cathy Wise(James' mom) calls Karen at school amd leaves her a msg in the office.
7:45am*Karen receives the neighbor's msg while in the school cafeteria.
7:50am*Clint is awakened by the dog barking. He looks out the window and sees no unfamiliar vehicles, but does see Holly's car. This prompts him to call mom as he'd already looked around and knew Holly was not in the home. He says his call was to ask if Holly had received a ride to school or did not have school that day. Mom's phone is in her classroom so he gets no answer.
At some point AFTER 7:50am**mom after receiving neighbor's msg she uses library phone to call home. Clint tells mom that Holly's car is still home. Mom immediately hangs up and calls 911(routed to Henderson Co)
7:50am*After the call Clint looks out the kitchen window and sees his sister and who he believed to be Drew casually walking towards the woods. This prompts him to call Holly's cell. It rings 5 times and goes to voicemail. He then calls Drew's phone.. It rings 5 times and goes to voicemail.<Noted that this assures Clint that Holly/Drew were indeed together with neither answering their cell phone.>.
7:55am*Karen again calls home with Clint relaying he'd just seen Holly/Drew walking towards the woods. Mom immediately tells Clint that is NOT DREW.call 911.Mom then tells Clint to get a gun and go after the man! Mom immediately hangs up and calls 911 a second time.*<Noted that at this time mom still HAD NOT told Clint that Drew had been on the other side of the county hunting.. THO THAT WAS MUCH EARLIER BUT FACT WAS CLINT STATED AT THAT TIME HE STILL BELIEVED IT TO BE DREW.
8:00am*Clint with loaded gun leaves out the backdoor of the residence, walks thru the open garage attached to the house. He sees a puddle of blood near Holly's car. *<Noted that even at this point Clint was still NOT alarmed, still believed it was Drew, and the blood was from a turkey(tho clearly no turkey in site)>.
About 8:00am*Clint walked towards the woods when Cathy Wise pulls up the driveway( James who heard the scream's mother)*<Noted that the school secretary told Cathy to go to the Bobo home to check> Cathy proceeds to tell Clint about the screams she had heard just some 15-20mins prior.[I personally noted that it does state that "she" heard the scream(s), but could just be the author's choice in words and not meaning it that "she" actually heard the scream(s)]
*<Noted it is at this point that Clint becomes alarmed for the first time> .
About 8:00am*Clint calls 911 at the same time as he heard the engines rev of the quickly approaching patrol cars onto their Swan Johnson Rd.
*<Noted that Clint states that the first officers were on the scene IN LESS THAN 10 mins from the time that he saw his sister/male walking towards the woods>
8:00am*Drew is at his job in Parsons
8:00am-ish*Mom arrives home with Terrie Bromley from school.
8:30am*Dana arrives back home.
What is so very obviously omitted in this version of the timeline is that Clint states he awakes at 7:50am to the dog barking and he immediately goes into his checking out thru the windows and saw that Holly's car was still at home, thus prompting him to call mom and ask had she gotten a ride to school... And gone is the murky details of his looking out the window and seeing 2 "silouhettes" inside the attached garage that were in a kneeling position.. Gone too are the details of his account where he is close enough to the two in the garage that he can actually make out that they had "young sounding" voices(way back at the very beginning even stating he believed the voices soundex as tho they were arguing).. This entire chunk of Clint's account of that morning's events are suddenly gone in this new timeline.. Why? They certainly were hammered on and driven home in the JVM interview with him getting very detailed with the set up and location of the attached garage where he'd first seen and heard two people that morning after being awakened by the dog barking.. His going into further detail that it was due to his not knowing who or why they were in their garage that directly led to his making that initial phonecall to mom that morning.. His wanting to know was it Holly and if so who was she with and what were they doing?.. And then the events of the morning pick back up coinciding with this timeline from his mom returning that first phonecall and his learning Holly should infact have already long since been at school for an early morning important exam..
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 04:27 PM
If TBI didn't get the "forced"/"walked" wrong, why does their first press release mention "dragged," (excuse me - "drug") yet in a day or so they were pitching the "walked" story? They're in charge of the official narrative, not Clint. At the very least they were cavalierly premature in releasing information, no matter what they had "recorded." This dichotomy might be seen as the Original Sin of this case (well, were it not for leaving the perimeter unsecured after LE arrived on the scene).
Perhaps I have a lot more faith in LE than I do family members in some cases. I don't think TBI would make up words. They reported what was told to them in the inital statement made by the eye witness and made a immediate press release:
http://www.tbi.state.tn.us/documents/MissingWomanFearedVictimofHomeInvasionKidnapping.p df
If his story changed, that is not TBI's fault and I think some of us are starting to doubt his story. His timeline makes no sense and we've seen him add or delete stuff to his story.
Personally, I have a big issue when that happens. Their credibility goes down the toilet but that's just me.
He's now faulting LE for messing up the crime scene and makes me wonder why.
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 04:39 PM
Smooth, you may have posted the 26 minutes travel time for Karen and I probably missed it. How did you arrive to the 26 minutes? TIA
In Clint's latest version, Karen was at the house in minutes. Maybe 5 minutes if we calculate all that happened from when he awoke at 7:50 to 8:00.
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 04:42 PM
If Holly was injured, the "drug" part would make a lot more sense, imo.
MizStery
10-16-2011, 04:46 PM
4:30am*Holly awoke to study for an exam @8am. She studied in her room, alone, on her bed, and with the door shut..(time verified only via Holly's telling her mom later that morning)
5:30am*Dana stops at Holly's bedroom door and speaks to Holly thru her closed door asking did she need any money. She replies yes and he leaves it for her on kitchen counter.
5:35am*Dana leaves for work.
5:35am*Karen awoke and went into Holly's room to speak with her. Holly was studying
on her bed.
Just shy of 7:00am*Holly is now studying at the kitchen table. Karen
packs Holly's lunch and puts her breakfast in the microwave.
7:00am*Karen leaves to go to work(26 min travel time to work)
7:00am*Hannah calls Holly from her home landline on Holly's cell.. Holly indicates she is going to eat her breakfast and put her shoes on to leave.
Almost 7:30am*Holly's at the kitchen table studying when she receives a call from Drew. He proceeds to tell her of the cousin not recognizing him and wasn't giving permission for he and his dad to hunt on her grandma's 60acres located across the county.
7:30-7:35am*A flurry of calls take place between Holly, Drew, and
Karen discussing the incident of Drew's not being recognized to hunt grandma's property.
7:35am*Karen speaks to Holly for the last time via cell phone.<Noted that Clint was still in bed asleep.>.
7:40am*James Barnes(neighbor to the south)Hears a scream from the Bobo's house. He alerts his mom(who lived there as well) and then left for work.
Around 7:40am*Cathy Wise(James' mom) calls Karen at school amd leaves her a msg in the office.
7:45am*Karen receives the neighbor's msg while in the school cafeteria.
7:50am*Clint is awakened by the dog barking. He looks out the window and sees no unfamiliar vehicles, but does see Holly's car. This prompts him to call mom as he'd already looked around and knew Holly was not in the home. He says his call was to ask if Holly had
received a ride to school or did not have school that day. Mom's phone is in her classroom so he gets no answer.
At some point AFTER 7:50am**mom after receiving neighbor's msg she uses library phone to call home. Clint tells mom that Holly's car is still home. Mom immediately hangs up and calls 911(routed to Henderson Co)
7:50am*After the call Clint looks out the kitchen window and sees his
sister and who he believed to be Drew casually walking towards the woods. This prompts him to call Holly's cell. It rings 5 times and goes to voicemail. He then calls Drew's phone.. It rings 5
times and goes to voicemail.<Noted that this assures Clint that Holly/Drew were indeed together with neither answering their cell phone.>.
7:55am*Karen again calls home with Clint relaying he'd just seen Holly/Drew walking towards the woods. Mom immediately tells Clint that is NOT DREW.call 911.Mom then tells Clint to get a gun and go after the man! Mom immediately hangs up and calls 911 a second time.*<Noted that at this time mom still HAD NOT told Clint that Drew had been on the other side of the county hunting.. THO THAT WAS MUCH EARLIER BUT FACT WAS CLINT
STATED AT THAT TIME HE STILL BELIEVED IT TO BE DREW.
8:00am*Clint with loaded gun leaves out the backdoor of the residence, walks thru the
open garage attached to the house. He sees a puddle of blood near Holly's car. *<[/i]Noted that even at this point Clint was still NOT alarmed, still believed it was Drew, and the blood was from a turkey(tho clearly no turkey in site)[/i]>.
About 8:00am*Clint walked towards the woods when Cathy Wise pulls up the driveway( James who heard the scream's mother)*<Noted that the school secretary told Cathy to go to the Bobo home to check> Cathy proceeds to tell Clint about the screams she had heard just some 15-20mins
prior.[I personally noted that it does state that "she" heard the scream(s), but could just be the author's choice in words and not meaning it that "she" actually heard the scream(s)]
*<Noted it is at this point that Clint becomes alarmed for the first time> .
About 8:00am*Clint calls 911 at the same time as he heard the engines rev of the quickly approaching patrol cars onto their Swan Johnson Rd.
*<Noted that Clint states that the first officers were on the scene IN LESS THAN 10 mins from the time that he saw his sister/male walking towards the woods>
8:00am*Drew is at his job in Parsons
8:00am-ish*Mom arrives home with Terrie Bromley from school
8:30am*Dana arrives back home
What is so very obviously omitted in this version of the timeline is that Clint states he awakes
at 7:50am to the dog barking and he immediately goes into his checking out thru the windows and saw that Holly's car was still at home, thus prompting him to call mom and ask had she gotten a ride to school...
And gone is the murky details of his looking out the window and seeing 2 "silouhettes" inside the attached garage that were in a kneeling position.. Gone too are the details of his account where he is close enough to the two in the garage that he can actually make out that they had "young sounding" voices(way back at the very beginning even stating he believed the voices soundex as tho they were arguing).. This entire chunk of Clint's account of that morning's events are suddenly gone in this new timeline.. Why? They certainly were hammered on and driven home in the JVM interview with him getting very detailed with the set up and location of
the attached garage where he'd first seen and heard two people that morning after being awakened by the dog barking.. His going into further detail that it was due to his not knowing who or why they were in their garage that directly led to his making that initial
to mom that morning.. His wanting to know was it Holly and if so who was she with and what were they doing?.. And then the events of the morning pick back up coinciding with this timeline from his mom returning that first phonecall and his learning Holly should infact have already long since been at
school for an early morning important exam..
Smooth Operator,thanks for your timeline. Thanks also for the summary. MOO
"Oh what a tangled web we weave,/When first we practise to deceive!"
SmoothOperator
10-16-2011, 04:52 PM
Smooth, you may have posted the 26 minutes travel time for Karen and I probably missed it. How did you arrive to the 26 minutes? TIA
In Clint's latest version, Karen was at the house in minutes. Maybe 5 minutes if we calculate all that happened from when he awoke at 7:50 to 8:00.
Hang on a minute and I'll dig it up. It's from taking several different maps(google, bing, mapquest) and looking at the, I believe it is 3 different routes available to take from the home to the school.. I have listed the shortest travel time at 26 mins and the longest route put the travel time at 29 mins.. Lemme go find the map, with the directions and travel time..BRB
SmoothOperator
10-16-2011, 04:57 PM
Ok, so here's the google map marked with a route that is in the middle(28mins travel time) of the shortest route(being 26mins).. And the longest route(being 29mins)..
http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb414/jessigirl1798/1b42f637.jpg
And just to be clear of what exactly the two locations mapped are(and in case others want to map the varying routes).. It begins at the Bobo residence 681 Swan Johnson Rd. Darden, TN 38328 and it ends at Scotts Hill Elementary Hwy 114 South, Scotts Hill, TN 38374..
Does that help?
*ETA- I assumed with the residence having been openly posted, reported, etc for the last 6mos it wouldn't be a problem for me to list it(mods.. Plz let me know if this incorrect and will edit out the specific address).. And with the other address being a public school I assumed it was fine to post the specific address.. *my reason for posting those two specifics was for others to be able to map out the routes to see or confirm the travel times between the two locations.. (plz lemme know if not appropriate and I will edit them out.:)
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 05:04 PM
Thanks Smooth. I just don't get how she got there in 5 min. Something is wrong with the timeline.
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 05:06 PM
I got same on google maps. Thank you.
birpu
10-16-2011, 05:46 PM
n/t, I believe I recall that the last call Karen made to Clint was from the car, using her friend's phone. So she may have left the school right after Clint tells her they are walking to the woods. Maybe gives her another three or four minutes by the time she gets her keys and makes it to the car. Still not enough, though. She did arrive with her friend from school - so she had to have driven the whole distance. This timeline needs a little work.
Speaking of using the friend's phone - this is a little weird, too and I don't understand. She is reached in the cafeteria in person because her phone is in her classroom. Next she uses the library phone because it's closer. Then apparently she rushes back to the classroom (my interpretation) to get her car keys - right? Now, not having had her phone the last few minutes for these incredibly important calls it seems she would have grabbed it too, but maybe she just hastily got her purse and the phone - wasn't in it? So then, everybody is at the house for days and days. When did she go back and get her phone? Maybe someone brought it to her. Those are just the little things I wonder about sometimes.
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 06:31 PM
n/t, I believe I recall that the last call Karen made to Clint was from the car, using her friend's phone. So she may have left the school right after Clint tells her they are walking to the woods. Maybe gives her another three or four minutes by the time she gets her keys and makes it to the car. Still not enough, though. She did arrive with her friend from school - so she had to have driven the whole distance. This timeline needs a little work.
Speaking of using the friend's phone - this is a little weird, too and I don't understand. She is reached in the cafeteria in person because her phone is in her classroom. Next she uses the library phone because it's closer. Then apparently she rushes back to the classroom (my interpretation) to get her car keys - right? Now, not having had her phone the last few minutes for these incredibly important calls it seems she would have grabbed it too, but maybe she just hastily got her purse and the phone - wasn't in it? So then, everybody is at the house for days and days. When did she go back and get her phone? Maybe someone brought it to her. Those are just the little things I wonder about sometimes.
I wonder about that too. If in the next version we read or hear that her cellphone and Clint's cellphone are missing, I'll just throw my hands up in the air and give up.
Hippy Chick
10-16-2011, 06:39 PM
or buried her...by a church, imo. Bow and arrow makes sense. It would explain not hearing a gunshot. It reminds me of a case that I saw on 48 hours. I don't recall the names off the top of my head but the husband was convicted of murder. He (and his defense) said it was an accident.
Was this the first day of bow or firearm season?
SmoothOperator
10-16-2011, 07:14 PM
How i understand is..
True Karen's cell was in classroom and Karen was in the school cafeteria thus causing Clints initial call to go unanswered.. Someone from the office finds Karen in the cafeteria and relays the msg from the neighbor that there had been a scream from the Bobo's residence.. Then how I understood it from there was that Karen wasn't "returning" a call to Clint, as the cell was still in the classroom.. Karen goes to the closest phone in the library to call Clint to check in. This is when Clint relays to mom that Holly's car was still there at home. From what I understand this is when Karen "loses it" and falls out screaming and uncontrollably crying(as stated by school employee).. Karen says at this point she "just knew".. She said the school staff couldn't understand why she was reacting this way.. But Karen says after hearing Holly's car was still at home when she knew she should have already left for school and the important exam.. That upon learning this combined with the neighbor telling her they'd heard a scream.. That Karen knew something very dire was happening..
How I understand if from there is that after "losing it" and calling 911(routed to Henderson Co) that she never goes back to her classroom to retrieve her cell or keys or anything that I know of.. She asked Terrie(co-worker) to drive her home. Thus leaving the cell behind in the classroom.. While en route to the home in Terrie's car Karen decides to call and check back in with Clint at home. She uses Terrie's phone to make this call.. This is when Clint tells her he'd just seen Holly/Drew casually walking towards the woods..
This is where IMO Karen reaches peak panic and immediately tells Clint THAT IT IS NOT DREW!! And directs him to do two things.. Call 911 and go get a gun and go after the man!!! Mom then hangs up and immediately calls 911 for a second time(this call routed to correct local dispatch).. What I again find to be so unusual(as several of us discussed in the beginning as well as at great lengths just 2 weeks ago) and that is that Karen never shares with Clint what has her so committed to the fact IT COULD UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE BEEN DREW THAT HE SAW!.. this IMO confirmed solidly with this latest article where Clint notes that even after two phone calls with his mom, the last one she tells him it's not Drew, for him to contact 911, and
MOST IMPORTANTLY directs her son to retrieve a gun and immediately go after the man!!.. But yet after all of this Clint specifically notes THAT HE STILL BELIEVED IT WAS DREW!!!
EVEN AFTER EXITING THE HOME, WITH A LOADED GUN IN TOW, WALKING THRU THE OPEN GARAGE AND SEEING A PUDDLE OF BLOOD NEAR HOLLY's CAR!!!!!
CLINT NOTES THAT EVEN AFTER THAT HE STILL BELIEVED IT WAS DREW!!
It really really makes one wonder was it Drew?? Because Clint with a loaded gun in hand directed by his mom to go after "the man", and seeing a puddle of fresh blood next to his sister's car(that In and of itself was NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE STILL BEEN PARKED AT HOME).. That Clint states that he still firmly believed his sister to be with DREW!!!
What in the he!! Is really going on??? I mean I really want to know!!
SmoothOperator
10-16-2011, 07:23 PM
Re: first day of bow or firearm season..
In the latest Jackson Sun article, "Final Hours with Holly Bobo" the following is stated:
Since April 2, the opening day of turkey season, hunters from around the state had been entering the woods a half hour before daybreak.
Not sure If that helps answer your question or not..
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 07:33 PM
Was this the first day of bow or firearm season?
From what I understand it was the first day of Turkey Hunting Season. But...I am totally clueless of what that all means. Do they use bow and arrows to hunt turkeys?
Can you tell I'm a city girl? :floorlaugh:
Wonless
10-16-2011, 07:43 PM
If Holly was injured, the "drug" part would make a lot more sense, imo.
There is a video, which I can't find now and which I have mentioned before that is a press conference in which either the sheriff or TBI talks specifically about the "dragged" statement, and then goes on to specifically show what Clint had said about the person holding Holly's left arm, with a clear demostration of there understanding of what Clint witnessed.
Can anyone find that video Beane? When you see this demostration, it makes even more sense.
Wonless
10-16-2011, 07:55 PM
This timeline and Clint's story just are not believable to me at this point. I can't tell if its that the story is changing, or being miss reported, or if maybe CB is on some kind of medication and isn't thinking rationally, but his story is unravailing in my opinion. I just don't think that CB could have beeen involved and gotten away with it, given that he Holly talks to DS and KB at 7:35 and is fine, and LE arrives shortly after 8 CB doesnt have time...IMO.
Wonless
10-16-2011, 07:57 PM
From what I understand it was the first day of Turkey Hunting Season. But...I am totally clueless of what that all means. Do they use bow and arrows to hunt turkeys?
Can you tell I'm a city girl? :floorlaugh:
They do in some places, but I dont know about TN.
cluciano63
10-16-2011, 08:11 PM
I don't think Clint has time either...but he sure tells a screwy tale.
SmoothOperator
10-16-2011, 08:11 PM
I agree wonless that with 3 separate witnesses having "spoke" with Holly(not text but actually spoke with) btwn 7:00am-7:35am.. 7:00am she speaks with friend, Hannah.. Just before 7:30am she speaks with boyfriend, Drew.. And 7:35am she speaks with her mom for the last time.. So, at 7:35am Holly was alive and well.. And we have first officers on the scene at almost 8:00am straight up.. There is no way possible that Clint is responsible..
For me even if you remove both Karen and Drew's 7:30 and 7:35 testimonies of speaking with Holly.. We still have a completely neutral witness that spoke with an alive and well Holly at 7:00am.. That IMO still would not allow for Clint to have been responsible for Holly's disappearance in under an hour, with the neighbor arriving at the residence even before LE..
IMO if the timeline is only accurate with the neutral witness, Hannah's account of that mornings event of speaking with Holly at 7am then IMO it does rule out Clint..
Besides the multitude of other reasons where I find it impossible that Clint could have pulled this off.. But IMO he's not responsible.. Does that mean I believe his timeline and acct of the events of that morning??
He!! No I don't!! But IMO that is not due to him being responsible for Hollys disappearance.. As far as that Clint is clear in my book..
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 08:16 PM
This timeline and Clint's story just are not believable to me at this point. I can't tell if its that the story is changing, or being miss reported, or if maybe CB is on some kind of medication and isn't thinking rationally, but his story is unravailing in my opinion. I just don't think that CB could have beeen involved and gotten away with it, given that he Holly talks to DS and KB at 7:35 and is fine, and LE arrives shortly after 8 CB doesnt have time...IMO.
This is not directed at you. I'm just jumping off your post because you brought up misreporting, etc.
Frankly, I've had enough of hearing that the media got it wrong or TBI got it wrong or LE got it wrong. When do we start looking at this case without blinders on? We've heard Clint's version in interviews, we've seen it reported in writing and from page 1 of this forum, inconsistencies already existed and folks were questioning the brother's behaviour on that morning.
I ask folks to take a step back and wonder if this was NOT the brother. What if it was a spouse? Would we still be analyzing this case with rose coloured glasses? Just because this is a small religious community does not mean innocence prevails. There are very dark secrets even in small close knit communities. Preachers kill their wives, wives kill their husbands, mothers kill their children. No community is immune to evil.
Until TBI or FBI clears this family especially Clint or Drew, I will continue to look at them as possible suspects. Clint's story doesn't make any sense no matter how hard I try to give him the benefit of the doubt. If it doesn't make sense, it's a lie.
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 08:19 PM
The only non family person who spoke to Holly was her friend at 7 am. Like I said in a previous post, I include Drew as family. There is no evidence that Holly actually spoke to any of them. It's all hearsay.
cluciano63
10-16-2011, 08:27 PM
The only non family person who spoke to Holly was her friend at 7 am. Like I said in a previous post, I include Drew as family. There is no evidence that Holly actually spoke to any of them. It's all hearsay.
OK, if the last person outside of the family spoke with Holly at 7am...it only makes it possible that Clint and/or family was involved, in my opinion, if the scream heard by the neighbor is completely unrelated to Holly. If it was related and happened when he said, there really isn't time to "disappear" Holly so completely and get her belongings across town.
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 08:33 PM
OK, if the last person outside of the family spoke with Holly at 7am...it only makes it possible that Clint and/or family was involved, in my opinion, if the scream heard by the neighbor is completely unrelated to Holly. If it was related and happened when he said, there really isn't time to "disappear" Holly so completely and get her belongings across town.
Not if it was one person, I agree. If 2 people were involved, I believe it quite possible. I don't believe Holly walked into the woods. I think she was put in a car immediately after injury. Her belongings, IIRC, were found 2 days later. They could've very well have been planted.
I don't think the scream was Holly.
cluciano63
10-16-2011, 08:48 PM
I can't imagine the family being free the next few days to go scatter Holly's belongings though...didn't LE settle in there right away, and they were probably being interviewed all the time.
While Clint's conflicting stories (and they ARE conflicting) don't make sense, I don't suspect him of anything other than possibly a below average IQ and even that is just a guess. If his mom was worried enough to tell him to get a gun and get out there and he still doesn't have much of a reaction, we are probably dealing with a rather slow-witted guy and I am not trying to "slam" him, but at that point, he has a hysterical, by her own words, mom on the phone and he gets the gun and still basically saunters outside? Plus Mom has a witness or more than one to her reaction, and Dad likely has witnesses that he was at work all morning.
My opinion is that Holly was kidnapped and that the most unfortunate part, besides that fact, is that Clint was the witness, as he clearly is not a solid one. JMOJMOJMOJMOJMO
SmoothOperator
10-16-2011, 09:00 PM
I have to bring up Clint's unusual attitude, behaviors, statements regarding the trail through the woods that he, alone bears witness to Holly/male walking to(and suppose even possibly witnessed their going as far as to enter the woods on that specific trail.. Atleast he seems to indicate this at times).. I am further flabbergasted at this individual's statements, behaviors, and attitudes..
I need to know why in God's creation was Clint under the impression "that they'd likely not be getting Holly back anytime soon" while LE, fam, etc were first arriving and he was to have been writing out his statement to LE of the events that had just occurred?!?!
He would have BEEN THE ONLY ONE WITH THIS IMPRESSION BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION..IMO.. With LE having arrived LESS THAN 10 Minutes from when he witnessed Holly/male casually walking towards the woods.. With the circumstances what they were it's my opinion that in the beginning the opinions, thoughts, views were the exact polar opposite of what Clint states that his were in his believing they'd not be getting Holly back anytime soon!?!? Again, really?? WTH?? Why in the world would he think this when it'd only been less than 10mins from when he'd personally last laid eyes on his sister, the response time is truly unheard of, remarkable in very positive ways of truly having such a small window of literal single digit minutes to have elapsed for the perp being ahead of LE.. It is unheard of.. And I know all of us here in the beginning fully recognized how remarkable it was and many if not most were of the strong belief that this was a huge positive working in Holly's favor and with there being single digit amount of minutes between brother seeing her walking towards the woods(not even counting the minutes it would have taken from that point of their taking the trail thru the woods to where a vehicle had to have been waiting, and then for him to get her into the vehicle and then leave the area.. Once that is combined into the amount of time we are talking literally maybe 5minute head start ahead of LE.. Why in the hell would the eye witness, the brother who knew for certain that he'd just had his eyes in his sister moments prior.. Why him most of all would not be overly positive of Holly quickly being found blows my mind?!?!
Instead we learn from Clint himself the truth of what he felt could not have been more polar opposite.. With his stating he felt that they'd not be getting Holly back any time soon???
Truly within my heart of hearts this is only further directly indicating that what he is telling us is the sequence of events is NOT AT ALL ACCURATE TO WHAT ACTUALLY OCCURRED THAT MORNING!!! IMO his attitude, his words, his demeanors, and his very own account is indicative of polar opposite of whT is claiming to have happened..
Why was this individual so preoccupied with this entrance and trail thru the woods..?? To the point of being preoccupied away from his LE given task at hand of writing out his exact account of the mornings events.. But he instead feels so strongly about this area.. Even tho according to him he never even saw them actually enter but rather at the time he witnessed the two they were merely walking towards the woods.. His need to keep people away, including his mother in telling her to stay away from and do not go down the trail.. The trail that actually his mom had directed him to go with gun in hand and go after the man with Holly(We know Clint never did.).. IMO mainly because according to Clint the entire duration of all of the events of that morning he firmly believed the male to be Drew. He discredited his moms direct statements to him stating IT WAS NOT DREW.. Each time by continuing to believe it was Drew.. Never becoming in the least bit alarmed(his statements), continuing to discredit his moms fears and statements, and only becomes alarmed as LE are heard on Swan Johnson Rd(his statements)..*
Now suddenly a few moments later and he goes from feeling no alarm or worry of his sister's well being.. To his stating that he knew they'd likely not be getting Holly back anytime soon.. WTH?? Really??
I just cannot stress enough just how very alarming these details of this case are.. And they defy logic as well as they are as nonsensical as anything I have EVER SEEN OR HEARD?!?!
*WTH? Why of all people would Clint Bobo at that time and place have been of the opinion, attitude, view that they'd not be getting Holly back anytime soon?? Now really?? Why??
Why the sudden preoccupation of that one particular area?? To the point of directing his mother to not go on that trail(when fact is that's exactly what she did.. Just as I would have too.. As a mom desperately running after your child you know was there just moments before).. Clint desperate to keep people away from this area.. But no concern of an area where he'd actually seen a puddle of fresh blood, *that so easily could have been the perps.. A direct DNA link to the perp.. Talk about something to be preoccupied with keeping people away from.. But nope per Dana(who didn't even arrive home til ATLEAST 8:30am) the open garage had ppl walking thru it, milling around the blood and some being just nosy..
But Clint mind you was worried about preserving the perps footprints cuz thats all they got(per Clint's words).. Does that make sense?? When in the garage there's a puddle of blood easily belonging to the perp that would be a DNA link to the perp.. But yet there's ppl all over and around that area.. Clint is preoccupied with the entrance to the woods and the trail thru it.. Along with being of the mindset that they'd not be getting Holly back anytime soon!?!?! Hello?!? WTH?!?
What do you guys make of that issue?!?
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 09:05 PM
Evidence found on road side reported April 25th.
The new clue was found along the road in the northern part of Decatur County, Tenn.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20057123-504083.html
cluciano63
10-16-2011, 09:05 PM
I have to bring up Clint's unusual attitude, behaviors, statements regarding the trail through the woods that he, alone bears witness to Holly/male walking to(and suppose even possibly witnessed their going as far as to enter the woods on that specific trail.. Atleast he seems to indicate this at times).. I am further flabbergasted at this individual's statements, behaviors, and attitudes..
I need to know why in God's creation was Clint under the impression "that they'd likely not be getting Holly back anytime soon" while LE, fam, etc were first arriving and he was to have been writing out his statement to LE of the events that had just occurred?!?!
He would have BEEN THE ONLY ONE WITH THIS IMPRESSION BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION..IMO.. With LE having arrived LESS THAN 10 Minutes from when he witnessed Holly/male casually walking towards the woods.. With the circumstances what they were it's my opinion that in the beginning the opinions, thoughts, views were the exact polar opposite of what Clint states that his were in his believing they'd not be getting Holly back anytime soon!?!? Again, really?? WTH?? Why in the world would he think this when it'd only been less than 10mins from when he'd personally last laid eyes on his sister, the response time is truly unheard of, remarkable in very positive ways of truly having such a small window of literal single digit minutes to have elapsed for the perp being ahead of LE.. It is unheard of.. And I know all of us here in the beginning fully recognized how remarkable it was and many if not most were of the strong belief that this was a huge positive working in Holly's favor and with there being single digit amount of minutes between brother seeing her walking towards the woods(nit even counting the minutes it would have taken from that point of their taking the trail thru the woods to where a vehicle had to have been waiting, him to get her into the vehicle and then leave the area.. Once that is combined into the amount of time we are talking literally maybe 5minute head start ahead of LE.. Why in the hell would the eye witness, the brother who knew for certain that he'd just had his eyes in his sister moments prior.. Why him most of all would not be overly positive of Holly quickly being found???
Instead we learn from Clint himself the truth of what he felt could not have been more polar opposite.. With his stating he felt that they'd not be getting Holly back any time soon???
Truly within my heart of hearts this is only further directly indicating that what he is telling us is the sequence of events is NOT AT ALL ACCURATE TO WHAT ACTUALLY OCCURRED THAT MORNING!!! IMO his attitude, his words, his demeanors, and his very own account is indicative of polar opposite of whT is claiming to have happened..
Why was this individual so preoccupied with this entrance and trail thru the woods.. To the point of being preoccupied away from his LE given task at hand of writing out his exact account of the mornings events.. But he instead feels so strongly about this area that according to him he never even saw them actually enter but rather at the time he witnessed the two they were merely walking towards the woods.. His need to keep people away, including his mother in telling her to stay away from and do not go down the trail.. The trail that actually his mom had directed him to go with his gun and go after the man with Holly(We know Clint never did.).. IMO mainly because according to Clint the entire duration of all of the events of that morning he firmly believed the make to be Drew. His discredited his moms direct statements to him stati g otherwise.. Each time by continuing to believe it was Drew.. Never becowing in the least bit alarmed(his statements), continuing to discredit his moms fears and statements, and only becomes alarmed as LE are heard on Swan Johnson Rd(his statements)..
Now suddenly a few moments later and he goes from feeling no alarm or worry of his sister's well being.. To his stating that he knew they'd likely not be getting Holly back anytime soon.. WTH?? Really??
I just cannot stress enough just how very alarming these details of this case are.. And they defy logic as well as they are as nonsensical as anything I have EVER SEEN OR HEARD?!?!
WTH? Why of all people would Clint Bobo at that time and place have been of the opinion, attitude, view that they'd not be getting Holly back anytime soon?? Really now??
Why the sudden preoccupation of that one particular area?? To the point of directing his mother to not go on that trail(when fact is that's exactly what she did.. Just as I would have too.. As a mom desperately running after your child you know was there just moments before).. Clint desperate to keep people away from this area.. But no concern of an area where he'd actually seen a puddle of fresh blood, easily could have been the perps.. A direct DNA link to the perp.. Talk about something to be preoccupied with keeping people away from.. But nope per Dana(who didn't even arrive home til ATLEAST 8:30am) the open garage had ppl walking thru it, milling around the blood and being nosy..
But Clint mind you was worried about preserving the perps footprints cuz thats all they got(per Clint's words).. Does that make sense?? When in the garage there's a puddle of blood easily belonging to the perp that would be a DNA link to the perp.. But yet there's ppl all over and around that area.. Clint is preoccupied with the entrance to the woods and the trail thru it.. Along with being of the mindset that they'd nkt be getting Holly back anytime soon!?!?! Hello?!? WTH?!?
What do guys make of that issue?!?
I am thinking that a statement anaylsis expert would have a stroke over Clint's choice of words and phrases...especially the part of not seeing her again for a while...
cluciano63
10-16-2011, 09:11 PM
Hate to have back-to-back posts, but one thing that makes me crazy is Holly's mom not taking her phone when she left school, if I have that right. What if Holly tried to call her?
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 09:18 PM
Smooth, I don't make anything of it except that if he is involved, he now claims the crime scene was contaminated. Hard to say what evidence was gathered if any on that morning because TBI is not saying much. We do know that it went from family ruled out to everyone is a suspect. What that means and why they made that statement is anyone's guess. My guess is Clint's account does not add up to whatever evidence they have.
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 09:24 PM
I am thinking that a statement anaylsis expert would have a stroke over Clint's choice of words and phrases...especially the part of not seeing her again for a while...
:floorlaugh:
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 09:33 PM
I can't imagine the family being free the next few days to go scatter Holly's belongings though...didn't LE settle in there right away, and they were probably being interviewed all the time.
While Clint's conflicting stories (and they ARE conflicting) don't make sense, I don't suspect him of anything other than possibly a below average IQ and even that is just a guess. If his mom was worried enough to tell him to get a gun and get out there and he still doesn't have much of a reaction, we are probably dealing with a rather slow-witted guy and I am not trying to "slam" him, but at that point, he has a hysterical, by her own words, mom on the phone and he gets the gun and still basically saunters outside? Plus Mom has a witness or more than one to her reaction, and Dad likely has witnesses that he was at work all morning.
My opinion is that Holly was kidnapped and that the most unfortunate part, besides that fact, is that Clint was the witness, as he clearly is not a solid one. JMOJMOJMOJMOJMO
His behaviour that morning was more than bizarre, imo. I'd love to have a sit down with him. lol
"Dude, there was no freakin turkey, quit the BS and tell me what happened"
birpu
10-16-2011, 09:36 PM
So.... whatever happened to Holly - I'm assuming she's no longer with us because of the blood and the elapsed time. Is it that hard for LE to find a body? If you have a limited amount of time to hide a body, you can't take it far. I wonder why they haven't found anything, especially if they searched with dogs. I'm having a hard time coming up with how you dispose of a body and leave no trace in so little time. If you put it in a car and drive off, you still have to put it somewhere, and your car will have lots of DNA evidence in it for the police. They checked the ponds. Anybody know where the grandmother's 60 acres is in relation to Bobo's? All I heard was "across the county."
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 09:38 PM
Hunting accident cases with convictions:
http://kilgore.kltv.com/content/man-jailed-rusk-co-hunting-accident
http://www.criminalattorneypa.com/2011/07/hunting-accident-leads-to-conviction-on-pennsylvania-gun-charges.shtml
http://jonathanturley.org/2011/07/11/pennsylvania-lawyer-gets-10-25-years-after-hunting-accident/
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-06-24/man-shot-in-emerald-hunting-accident/2770360
I'm sure there are others.....
cluciano63
10-16-2011, 09:40 PM
So.... whatever happened to Holly - I'm assuming she's no longer with us because of the blood and the elapsed time. Is it that hard for LE to find a body? If you have a limited amount of time to hide a body, you can't take it far. I wonder why they haven't found anything, especially if they searched with dogs. I'm having a hard time coming up with how you dispose of a body and leave no trace in so little time. If you put it in a car and drive off, you still have to put it somewhere, and your car will have lots of DNA evidence in it for the police. They checked the ponds. Anybody know where the grandmother's 60 acres is in relation to Bobo's? All I heard was "across the county."
But you can take a body as far as you want to, if you jump into a truck or car and just keep driving...there is no real reason to think she is even in TN, except to hear LE say it. If the person isn't someone they have investigated, they don't have an alibi to compare with, for a timeframe as to when he was seen next or last. And we all know that many bodies are not found for years, if ever.
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 09:43 PM
So.... whatever happened to Holly - I'm assuming she's no longer with us because of the blood and the elapsed time. Is it that hard for LE to find a body? If you have a limited amount of time to hide a body, you can't take it far. I wonder why they haven't found anything, especially if they searched with dogs. I'm having a hard time coming up with how you dispose of a body and leave no trace in so little time. If you put it in a car and drive off, you still have to put it somewhere, and your car will have lots of DNA evidence in it for the police. They checked the ponds. Anybody know where the grandmother's 60 acres is in relation to Bobo's? All I heard was "across the county."
Look at all the unsolved missing persons cases where family/spouse is suspected but LE doesn't have enough evidence and/or a body.
Darcyline
10-16-2011, 09:43 PM
It is actually easier to hide a body than you would think. If you imagine what 100 acres or more of land looks like it is immense. Literally hundreds upon hundreds of searchers and dogs could search it and miss a body. It could be right outside their range for searching or she could have been thrown down a well of some sort or buried or weighed down in water somewhere. It feels like the bodies found are usually either by luck or some hardcore tip or fact leading you straight to the body. They have also ended up finding bodies in places that were already "cleared" by LE and they were just missed.
Sorry to sound negative, but I do think it is possible Holly is in the woods somewhere in the immediate area and just hasn't been found yet :( I am also operating under the assumption that whoever did it had more than 10 minutes to hide the body though.
shefner
10-16-2011, 09:45 PM
~The timeline does not...cannot....gel, as it is given.
~No perp would take 20 minutes for a kidnapping.
~Only one source heard the scream/s....source called mom but didn't check it out?
~The source's mom was concerned enough to call Karen?
~This was pretty early in the spring..the leaves on the trees were just coming in. Visibility through the woods would have been fairly good in the first half of April and Holly's hair was blond and bright. Had Clint set out as soon as he saw Holly enter the woods...and while mom was fainting on the phone....he would have easily caught up with her, especially considering the perp was moving so slowly.
~If Clint truly thought the man with Holly was Drew, then he would not have hesitated to call out to him.
~How did so many people arrive within minutes of Holly's disappearance?
~How long did it take mom to get to the scene from the school?
Also, I have read that Drew worked at the grocery store and arrived to work by 8am. I am questioning that. I have read on another site (that I won't link...so consider this somewhat of a "rumor") that people have confused Drew with another male friend. Drew works for the city of Parsons, or so it is said.
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 09:55 PM
~The timeline does not...cannot....gel, as it is given.
~No perp would take 20 minutes for a kidnapping.
~Only one source heard the scream/s....source called mom but didn't check it out?
~The source's mom was concerned enough to call Karen?
~This was pretty early in the spring..the leaves on the trees were just coming in. Visibility through the woods would have been fairly good in the first half of April and Holly's hair was blond and bright. Had Clint set out as soon as he saw Holly enter the woods...and while mom was fainting on the phone....he would have easily caught up with her, especially considering the perp was moving so slowly.
~If Clint truly thought the man with Holly was Drew, then he would not have hesitated to call out to him.
~How did so many people arrive within minutes of Holly's disappearance?
~How long did it take mom to get to the scene from the school?
Also, I have read that Drew worked at the grocery store and arrived to work by 8am. I am questioning that. I have read on another site (that I won't link...so consider this somewhat of a "rumor") that people have confused Drew with another male friend. Drew works for the city of Parsons, or so it is said.
It took mom give or take 8 minutes to get from the school to the house according to Clint's timeline.
I thought Drew worked in meat packing with his dad? Am I confused with another case?:waitasec:
Yah I guess word spread around real quickly that morning. By 8:30 the entire town of Parsons was aware or so it seems.:innocent:
cluciano63
10-16-2011, 09:56 PM
It took mom give or take 8 minutes to get from the school to the house according to Clint's timeline.
I thought Drew worked in meat packing with his dad? Am I confused with another case?:waitasec:
Yah I guess word spread around real quickly that morning. By 8:30 the entire town of Parsons was aware or so it seems.:innocent:
And yet the mapping sites give it at 25 minutes or longer between Bobo home and mom's school. Did they have a police escort?
~n/t~
10-16-2011, 09:58 PM
It is actually easier to hide a body than you would think. If you imagine what 100 acres or more of land looks like it is immense. Literally hundreds upon hundreds of searchers and dogs could search it and miss a body. It could be right outside their range for searching or she could have been thrown down a well of some sort or buried or weighed down in water somewhere. It feels like the bodies found are usually either by luck or some hardcore tip or fact leading you straight to the body. They have also ended up finding bodies in places that were already "cleared" by LE and they were just missed.
Sorry to sound negative, but I do think it is possible Holly is in the woods somewhere in the immediate area and just hasn't been found yet :( I am also operating under the assumption that whoever did it had more than 10 minutes to hide the body though.
Was Clint stalling? Is that why he came up with the silly preserving crime scene excuse by telling his mom and others not to go into the woods? hmmmm
I still think she was put in a vehicle right there by the carport.
birpu
10-16-2011, 10:02 PM
I kind of think if it was an accident it was probably a hunting accident of some sort. But what if she was actually out in the garage/carport when Karen left for school right around seven, after she hangs up with Reece. Or maybe behind the carport for some reason. You're backing out in the dim morning light, your daughter is upstairs, or so you believe, but actually she's just walked behind your car. Not sure why you would hide this, but it could happen.
birpu
10-16-2011, 10:16 PM
Was Clint stalling? Is that why he came up with the silly preserving crime scene excuse by telling his mom and others not to go into the woods? hmmmm
I still think she was put in a vehicle right there by the carport.
I do too.
And I also wondered about the stalling. But that leads me to Drew, because Clint couldn't have gotten Holly out of there himself if she was just up the trail when the cops arrived. If Drew was hunting there, maybe with Clint, and somehow somebody (Clint) shoots Holly by mistake (or maybe he stopped by to show both Holly and Clint his turkey...) - Could Drew have carried her to his car on the logging trail in the woods? Is that why the insistence that she was walking? Could Drew have called Holly's phone after that around 7:30 and then Holly's mom to establish an alibi that he was way across town hunting at Grandma's and not on the Bobo property? Could he have put her somewhere and then realized he had her stuff in his car (maybe she put it in there because he offered her a ride to school as he showed up) and then tossed it out in an arbitrary location? Could he have made it to work by 8am? Where is his work, anyway?
R.U.Kidding!
10-16-2011, 10:21 PM
For those who question Clint's actions that day.....and we are many.
Did you ever think Clint was just plain scared at what he was witnessing and was really terrified to get involved. No one wants to be thought of as cowardly, but it is a very human reaction. So as not to be criticized. Clint says "eh, I thought it was just Drew with my sister". Even after his mother tells him it's not Drew, and get a gun--he still does nothing with the gun because he is in fear of his own life?
The "fearing for his life" does make some sense to me, and could explain his very confusing account. For me it works.:waitasec:
birpu
10-16-2011, 10:32 PM
But what about him saying he didn't think they'd be seeing her for a long while?
Also I find this statement peculiar:
"The thing is there was no turkey," Clint said. "I wondered why they would take the turkey back to the woods unless they were walking back to put the turkey in his truck." -
There's a bit of an assumption there that he knows where Drew's truck is. Does Drew always park on the logging road when he's hunting there? Or did Clint just reveal he knew where Drew was parked that day?
cluciano63
10-16-2011, 10:41 PM
But what about him saying he didn't think they'd be seeing her for a long while?
Also I find this statement peculiar:
"The thing is there was no turkey," Clint said. "I wondered why they would take the turkey back to the woods unless they were walking back to put the turkey in his truck." -
There's a bit of an assumption there that he knows where Drew's truck is. Does Drew always park on the logging road when he's hunting there? Or did Clint just reveal he knew where Drew was parked that day?
Of all of the outlandish things about this case as presented, this one statement just about takes it for me. Does he think people go into the woods often and never come back? Didn't he just a moment ago watch her walk casually into the woods? But now he thinks she may be gone a long time? Granted, he is/was under all kinds of stress, but this statement just blows my mind.
SmoothOperator
10-16-2011, 10:54 PM
I believe as cluciano that mom and dad are not responsible for disappearing Holly.. I, too, as I stated upthread find that the neutral witness, Hannah's acct of speaking to an alive and well Holly at 7:00am(with clear indications that there was nothing nefarious, nor mysterious going on at that point).. My reasons for believing that is due to Holly's statements indicating her intentions were to finish breakfast, don her shoes, and out the door to school.. Hannah's acct as a neutral witness IMO places Clint in the clear as well as far as there just not being sufficient amount of time for him to have done the many necessary steps in order to have Holly still unlocated with the only evidence we know of a puddle of blood near her car.. IMO given what I personally have observed regarding Clint NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS WOULD HE HAVE EVEN HAD THE CAPABILITIES TO HAVE PULLED OFF ANYTHING LIKE THIS.. and that's strictly from me as a stranger and my observations of him, not taking into acct his love for his sister, or whether he is a tender hearted soul, etc.. Just on the observations alone I say he is absolutely INCAPABLE of the disappearance of Holly(that is unless there is an entire layer of him hidden beneath a facade of a very "slow" and naive individual.. I highly doubt from what little I have heard from locals who do know this family)..
But where my thoughts differ is that I am not convinced at all that the family is totally clueless of extremely pertinent backstory to all of this.. The backstory that possibly culminated in Holly's being taken(and yes, likely killed IMO).. That for me is a very real possibility that I personally believe is not only possible, but plausible given what we've seen of the coirse of these last 6mos.. Another possibility for me is that either along with there being a backstory leading up to Holly's abduction.. Or even without the family having knowledge of the backstory that led to her abduction.. For me there is great possibility that what occurred that morning is nothing remotely similar to what has been relayed to is.. That would make many things more sensical and understanding why the gaping obvious omissions are present throughout, along with large in size inconsistencies, and outright farcical claims IMO.. All of these things would make better sense in know they are false hence why such obvious flaws to accounts of that mornings events.. But then why?? That is the question I keep asking, why would there be a need to cover up or conceal the actual true events as they occurred that morning?
What or how could that serve Holly in her being found? IMO it just wouldn't.. How ever could a false or fabricated account of that mornings events in any way help to find Holly? Unless there is more that we do not know.. And I then circle back to the family having full knowledge of the backstory that culminated in Holly being abducted.. IMO for them to feel it necessary to conceal the true events to say protect Holly.. Well IMO the only way that would be possible is for the family to have knowledge of who the person(s) are that have Holly or have taken Holly.. Does that make sense? Probably not with my describing it.:crazy: but for me the family having knowledge of the backstory leading up to Holly's abduction and/or the family having knowledge of those responsible would be the only reasons I can come up with why the family would be fabricating the events instead of publicly giving the true and factual events as they occurred that morning..
Idk?!? Head spinning.. Gotta take a break from this for now..
birpu
10-16-2011, 11:17 PM
quick question here. If you were informed of a scream coming from your home and then were told that your daughter, who should have already left, was seen walking into the woods with someone you believe is a stranger, who would you call? 911, ok. Then I'd call her, because - heck, wouldn't you just want to ask her if she's alright? Karen never says she tried to call Holly after she spoke with her around 7:30. I wonder if she did.
MizStery
10-17-2011, 12:20 AM
Thanks,to all of the posters on this thread. I appreciate the amount of time to document and sift through mountains of data then compile it for us to read.
I almost have to suspend all i thought i knew about this story and start over.
The best analogy is i feel like i am watching an Alfred Hickcock movie.
When deception is the rule rather than the exception ....you just have to take a deep breath and go for it.
I have to ask,is it safe to assume that there was a factor of fear or intimidation for some unknown reason against members of this family?Threats even terrible retributions if people did not comply? The reason for this line of questions is I am completely lost and do not know where else to begin. Does any one have theory they are willing to share? MOO
SmoothOperator
10-17-2011, 12:36 AM
Hey, what do you all make of this statement from the recent article in the Jackson Sun, Oct 13? I find it highly interesting, especially the part that I capitalized. Which I would have done in boldface, but I don't know how on my Macbook Air. Anyway:
"Tennessee Bureau of Investigation Special Agent John Mehr said the information his agents recorded that morning did not lead him to believe people coming into the yard hindered the investigation.
"I don't believe that was the case," Mehr said. "We have to believe what was told to us by the initial responders, and the other thing is that WE HAVE A WRITTEN RECORD OF WHAT WE SAW AND WHAT WE WERE TOLD THAT MORNING. OTHER PEOPLE MAY TRY TO REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED OR WHAT THEY SAID, BUT WE HAVE A RECORD OF IT. And I have no doubt the initial responders told us the truth." "
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20111013/NEWS25/110130314
It sure sounds to me like he is saying Clint's (and others'?) statements are on record - and Clint can now recall something else, but he believes what Clint first said, and is hinting that Clint can't quite remember exactly what that was - but he has it. It's recorded. Do you get the same thing from this?
And then also from birpu(respectfully snipped):
Originally Posted by birpu
"Initial responders" are LE, obviously. That's who Mehr says he believes. So this has to mean there is a discrepancy in what LE was initially told and what was told afterwards. This statement of his also includes the curious bit about the yard being full of people, which he doesn't believe was a problem. He is talking about the back yard at that point. This is in response to a question about the family's concern that evidence was trampled.
OK. What I get from THIS is that he believes a different story than the "walk to the woods" version. If they had been told about a walk to the woods, surely they would have secured that area right away. This takes us back to the very first reporting where she was "dragged" across the carport. Maybe the walk through the backyard to the woods was added later, and he isn't buying it.
You have made some EXCELLENT POINTS birpu!! This is why thoroughly appreciate and enjoy new "eyes" looking at all the details that many of us have pored over continually these past 6mos to the point that it is just regurgitated so many times that IMO we get to where we scroll on thru when seeing it brought up AGAIN.. so, I always love it when sometimes the new eyes are actually much better at deciphering and pointing excellent and sometimes very relevant and even important details that we've overlooked or just didn't look at it from that particular angle.. So, thanks birpu and am glad you chose to join and post with us here in Holly's Threads(and yes I realize u didn't just join yesterday..lol.. But your definitely a new set of eyes in comparison to many of us).. As I said EXCELLENT POINTS you've made about TBI's Mehr and his comments in this latest Jackson Sun article..
And ITA with your assessment.. It sounds absolutely not only plausible, but probable as well when you look at the entire issue as whole of what the family is now claim and/or accusing of LE, including TBI and Mehr is absolutely correct in his replying to those claims and accusations with statements that not only are the versions of events and claims that are being brought by the family incorrect, inaccurate, or untrue but what he as a member of the TBI has to back up that reply is the original, unedited, with no 6month lapse in memory recall reports that we made at the time of the incident. And those in the days that followed should they happen to change or even begin to change and or add or omit details important to the case.. All of this is on record and he has those reports that he can read that have numerous different witness accounts as to the events as they continued to unfold from 8am of April 13th on.. There was a multitude of varying officers, agents, and citizens that were on the ground, in person at the Bobo residence(scene of the crime) within literally 10 minutes of Holly last being seen on that very same property(of course assuming Clints acct is factual).. That's a huge factor that in a case where the family or members of the family have drastically changed their Accts of the events of that morning and now are even stepping out with critical accusations of the investigators and their investigation tactics used.. This team has the accurate truth, as it truly happened documented from 8am of April 13th on to this present day.. You better believe they are absolutely keeping note and track of the multitude of versions that have been told over these last 6 months, to now prove that the claims and accusations are unfounded..
I, too agree with your opinion on his making reference to his reports showing, therefor literally proving that some or even much of what is Clint's most recent claims to have happened or how it occurred and that those new versions do not jive in any way, shape, or form with what this investigator knows was this young man's original version.. And let me be clear.. I'm not saying that they're speaking of the natural and normal subtle changes that do and will occur in a persons acct of events over the course of the coming days after a traumatic incident's shock begins to wear off.. That IMO is all well and good and is expected.. I believe more accurately what this investigator is talking about is that what he knows to be Clint's story once some time had passed and given as his firmed up account of the events of that morning.. I believe he is referring to that version that is totally different and in no way like what he attempts to claim, state, or allege in his present version..
Again thanks birpu for pointing out these excellent details and your view and opinion on them:) I, for one totally agree!!
SmoothOperator
10-17-2011, 12:57 AM
In answer to your question Miztery all I can say is this.. I do not believe that the entire town and surrounding people buy this story any more than we do.. I think many don't know what took place.. Of course in all likelihood there are some in the area that do know, or even have involvement(TBI has never waivered on believing it was likely a local).. Also just as we are now having confirmed by the family they are saying they did stay quiet for so long at the request of LE.. I believe this was asked of the community as well to not speak about it or answer questions about it.. Some here can even attest that the few locals that were posting in the beginning abruptly stopped, with one commenting that their opinion was that LE had it under control and that it was NOT going to help by continuing to discuss it publicly.. I think many have abided by that request as well as many I believe privately discuss amongst themselves their fears or concerns for Holly and what happened to her..
So you see I believe that as far as it seeming everyone is going along with the story I don't believe that's necessarily true.. I believe that many do not know and are very suspicious of versions of that days events, but with Holly still missing they don't know that it'll ever be resolved.. I believe that to be a genuine fear to some as well.. And then you add in what's moo that just as LE requested the family not talk, so, too did they the community.. Therefor IMO I think the factor of fear of the family or retribution from the family isn't the issue(that I know of atleast).. But rather just a combination of things I listed ^above^.. But all in all by far IMO there are many that don't buy the account of the events of that morning.. Just like many of us don't buy it..
All jmo, tho!!
cluciano63
10-17-2011, 01:25 AM
What kind of entire town can be silenced at the request of LE or anyone else? Stepford?
MizStery
10-17-2011, 01:47 AM
In answer to your question Miztery all I can say is this.. I do not believe that the entire town and surrounding people buy this story any more than we do.. I think many don't know what took place.. Of course in all likelihood there are some in the area that do know, or even have involvement(TBI has never waivered on believing it was likely a local).. Also just as we are now having confirmed by the family they are saying they did stay quiet for so long at the request of LE.. I believe this was asked of the community as well to not speak about it or answer questions about it.. Some here can even attest that the few locals that were posting in the beginning abruptly stopped, with one commenting that their opinion was that LE had it under control and that it was NOT going to help by continuing to discuss it publicly.. I think many have abided by that request as well as many I believe privately discuss amongst themselves their fears or concerns for Holly and what happened to her..
So you see I believe that as far as it seeming everyone is going along with the story I don't believe that's necessarily true.. I believe that many do not know and are very suspicious of versions of that days events, but with Holly still missing they don't know that it'll ever be resolved.. I believe that to be a genuine fear to some as well.. And then you add in what's moo that just as LE requested the family not talk, so, too did they the community.. Therefor IMO I think the factor of fear of the family or retribution from the family isn't the issue(that I know of atleast).. But rather just a combination of things I listed ^above^.. But all in all by far IMO there are many that don't buy the account of the events of that morning.. Just like many of us don't buy it..
All jmo, tho!!
Thank-you SmoothOperator! You navigated that minefield with superb skill. I appreciate your knowledge of the story. I am going to reread your posts. Please,please keep posting. Like you said to the previous poster... new eyes can indeed bring fresh insight to this story. MOO
Mr. Noatak
10-17-2011, 01:56 AM
Mr Noatak,
Where on your timeline would you put CB's call to his mother when he looked out and saw the figures in the garage? He actually stated that he called Karen to figure out who was on their property. It would have to be between 7:35 - the flurry of calls - and 7:50, when he said he saw them walking into the woods.
My opinions only, no facts here:
Well, I would not put this in my timeline because it is a personal speculation and because I am still unclear about the account concerning the figures in the garage- but if figures WERE seen in the garage I would pick the 7:40 to 7:45 AM time interval.
Mr. Noatak
10-17-2011, 02:02 AM
OK---I cannot get past the "SCREAM"--never could.
1) When scream was initially reported couldn't understand how "Clint did not hear it"--we assumed he was sleeping.
2) Now Neighbor's son hears it, but his own mother does not, and son is living with her? ...and she is wide awake. How can that be?
Forgive me--It would seem the SCREAM is the most important factor in the events of that morning. It establishes the beginning of the timeline we are using.
For me, the scream has to make sense before any theory can be expanded.
The neighbors live 350 yards away from the Bobo's, help me understand why 1 person, only, hears this .....and that person just continues on to work. What kind of a relationship does he have with the Bobo's ? I mean why even bother to call his mom if he isn't concerned enough to check himself.
and , again, don't even get me started on the" 10 minute disappearing with No trace of Holly act". I have absolutely no idea how anyone can make sense out of this mess let alone find Holly!:furious:
My opinions only, no facts here:
I interpret (not necessarily correctly) that the son heard the scream outside of his house, but his mother was inside the house. That is my rationale for the seeming discrepancy. But the ten minutes is not the issue in my judgement- it is the twenty minutes from 7:40 to 8:00 AM (when the first police car arrived).
Mr. Noatak
10-17-2011, 02:18 AM
Great work on the timeline! Also nice to see some new posters here.
Personally, I doubt we will get anything more out of events we have... need some new info to come out...
One question that puzzles me - I would like to see a timeline of events AFTER 8 am. How fast did all the volunteers and other people arrive?
How did so many get the word that something happened so fast?
Could the perp(s) have been involved in getting the word out to get the crime scene flooded with people? Mess up the crime scene - thinking back to the JonBenet Ramsey scene.
My opinions only, no facts here:
I admit that I am puzzled that so many people have been reported to have appeared so quickly. The important thing to take away is that law enforcement was on the scene pronto. Blocking the junction at Swan Johnson and 5 Forks Roads might have been sufficient. I suspect the police may well have done this or at least were patroling that area. Tracking dogs may have been used very early on. Yet nobody was caught. Very strange.
Mr. Noatak
10-17-2011, 02:28 AM
The scream bothers me too. I just simply do not get how Clint could be sitting in his room to the point that he could hear voices in the garage, but didn't hear a shriek loud enough to reach and alarm neighbors 350+ yards away. I know people here have tried to explain that in various ways saying "sound carries weird" and other stuff, but I am just not comfortable with it.
I also still don't get the timing even within the timeline we have. Like, we have a fairly structured (at least to me-I realize not everyone agrees) timeline for that entire important hour, but the gaps seem insanely significant.
I wonder what type of injury caused a puddle of blood too. A puddle feels like a lot, but a few minutes later she was walking casually into the woods?
Ok, now I am repeating myself.
My opinions only, no facts here:
The scream may have awakened the brother. Sounds that awaken you are oftimes subliminally marginalized. You then remember the sound you first heard after fully waking up (barking dog), but not the sound that actually lifted you from your slumber.
Mr. Noatak
10-17-2011, 02:34 AM
Hey, what do you all make of this statement from the recent article in the Jackson Sun, Oct 13? I find it highly interesting, especially the part that I capitalized. Which I would have done in boldface, but I don't know how on my Macbook Air. Anyway:
"Tennessee Bureau of Investigation Special Agent John Mehr said the information his agents recorded that morning did not lead him to believe people coming into the yard hindered the investigation.
"I don't believe that was the case," Mehr said. "We have to believe what was told to us by the initial responders, and the other thing is that WE HAVE A WRITTEN RECORD OF WHAT WE SAW AND WHAT WE WERE TOLD THAT MORNING. OTHER PEOPLE MAY TRY TO REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED OR WHAT THEY SAID, BUT WE HAVE A RECORD OF IT. And I have no doubt the initial responders told us the truth." "
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20111013/NEWS25/110130314
It sure sounds to me like he is saying Clint's (and others'?) statements are on record - and Clint can now recall something else, but he believes what Clint first said, and is hinting that Clint can't quite remember exactly what that was - but he has it. It's recorded. Do you get the same thing from this?
My opinions only, no facts here:
This is exactly what drives us sleuthers crazy- we must speculate on newspaper reports and whatever, while others hold all of the cards. This is not the way it was meant to be. The way it was meant to be is that ALL of the people have the information and collectively could arise at a solution.
Mr. Noatak
10-17-2011, 02:44 AM
4:30am*Holly awoke to study for an exam @8am. She studied in her room, alone, on her bed, and with the door shut..(time verified only via Holly's telling her mom later that morning)
5:30am*Dana stops at Holly's bedroom door and speaks to Holly thru her closed door asking did she need any money. She replies yes and he leaves it for her on kitchen counter.
5:35am*Dana leaves for work.
5:35am*Karen awoke and went into Holly's room to speak with her. Holly was studying on her bed.
Just shy of 7:00am*Holly is now studying at the kitchen table. Karen packs Holly's lunch and puts her breakfast in the microwave.
7:00am*Karen leaves to go to work(26 min travel time to work)
7:00am*Hannah calls Holly from her home landline on Holly's cell.. Holly indicates she is going to eat her breakfast and put her shoes on to leave.
Almost 7:30am*Holly's at the kitchen table studying when she receives a call from Drew. He proceeds to tell her of the cousin not recognizing him and wasn't giving permission for he and his dad to hunt on her grandma's 60acres located across the county.
7:30-7:35am*A flurry of calls take place between Holly, Drew, and Karen discussing the incident of Drew's not being recognized to hunt grandma's property.
7:35am*Karen speaks to Holly for the last time via cell phone.<Noted that Clint was still in bed asleep.>.
7:40am*James Barnes(neighbor to the south)Hears a scream from the Bobo's house. He alerts his mom(who lived there as well) and then left for work.
Around 7:40am*Cathy Wise(James' mom) calls Karen at school amd leaves her a msg in the office.
7:45am*Karen receives the neighbor's msg while in the school cafeteria.
7:50am*Clint is awakened by the dog barking. He looks out the window and sees no unfamiliar vehicles, but does see Holly's car. This prompts him to call mom as he'd already looked around and knew Holly was not in the home. He says his call was to ask if Holly had received a ride to school or did not have school that day. Mom's phone is in her classroom so he gets no answer.
At some point AFTER 7:50am**mom after receiving neighbor's msg she uses library phone to call home. Clint tells mom that Holly's car is still home. Mom immediately hangs up and calls 911(routed to Henderson Co)
7:50am*After the call Clint looks out the kitchen window and sees his sister and who he believed to be Drew casually walking towards the woods. This prompts him to call Holly's cell. It rings 5 times and goes to voicemail. He then calls Drew's phone.. It rings 5 times and goes to voicemail.<Noted that this assures Clint that Holly/Drew were indeed together with neither answering their cell phone.>.
7:55am*Karen again calls home with Clint relaying he'd just seen Holly/Drew walking towards the woods. Mom immediately tells Clint that is NOT DREW.call 911.Mom then tells Clint to get a gun and go after the man! Mom immediately hangs up and calls 911 a second time.*<Noted that at this time mom still HAD NOT told Clint that Drew had been on the other side of the county hunting.. THO THAT WAS MUCH EARLIER BUT FACT WAS CLINT STATED AT THAT TIME HE STILL BELIEVED IT TO BE DREW.
8:00am*Clint with loaded gun leaves out the backdoor of the residence, walks thru the open garage attached to the house. He sees a puddle of blood near Holly's car. *<Noted that even at this point Clint was still NOT alarmed, still believed it was Drew, and the blood was from a turkey(tho clearly no turkey in site)>.
About 8:00am*Clint walked towards the woods when Cathy Wise pulls up the driveway( James who heard the scream's mother)*<Noted that the school secretary told Cathy to go to the Bobo home to check> Cathy proceeds to tell Clint about the screams she had heard just some 15-20mins prior.[I personally noted that it does state that "she" heard the scream(s), but could just be the author's choice in words and not meaning it that "she" actually heard the scream(s)]
*<Noted it is at this point that Clint becomes alarmed for the first time> .
About 8:00am*Clint calls 911 at the same time as he heard the engines rev of the quickly approaching patrol cars onto their Swan Johnson Rd.
*<Noted that Clint states that the first officers were on the scene IN LESS THAN 10 mins from the time that he saw his sister/male walking towards the woods>
8:00am*Drew is at his job in Parsons
8:00am-ish*Mom arrives home with Terrie Bromley from school.
8:30am*Dana arrives back home.
What is so very obviously omitted in this version of the timeline is that Clint states he awakes at 7:50am to the dog barking and he immediately goes into his checking out thru the windows and saw that Holly's car was still at home, thus prompting him to call mom and ask had she gotten a ride to school... And gone is the murky details of his looking out the window and seeing 2 "silouhettes" inside the attached garage that were in a kneeling position.. Gone too are the details of his account where he is close enough to the two in the garage that he can actually make out that they had "young sounding" voices(way back at the very beginning even stating he believed the voices soundex as tho they were arguing).. This entire chunk of Clint's account of that morning's events are suddenly gone in this new timeline.. Why? They certainly were hammered on and driven home in the JVM interview with him getting very detailed with the set up and location of the attached garage where he'd first seen and heard two people that morning after being awakened by the dog barking.. His going into further detail that it was due to his not knowing who or why they were in their garage that directly led to his making that initial phonecall to mom that morning.. His wanting to know was it Holly and if so who was she with and what were they doing?.. And then the events of the morning pick back up coinciding with this timeline from his mom returning that first phonecall and his learning Holly should infact have already long since been at school for an early morning important exam..
My opinions only, no facts here:
This is why I cannot put the "figures" or the "figure's talking" in the garage in my timeline. The latest newspaper accounts (hardly official) seem not to include this interesting detail.
Mr. Noatak
10-17-2011, 02:51 AM
Smooth Operator,thanks for your timeline. Thanks also for the summary. MOO
"Oh what a tangled web we weave,/When first we practise to deceive!"
My opinions only, no facts here:
Your quote is beautiful. Allow me to attempt to top it:
Yesterday this days madness did prepare,
Tomorrow's silence, triumph, or despair!
Mr. Noatak
10-17-2011, 03:01 AM
n/t, I believe I recall that the last call Karen made to Clint was from the car, using her friend's phone. So she may have left the school right after Clint tells her they are walking to the woods. Maybe gives her another three or four minutes by the time she gets her keys and makes it to the car. Still not enough, though. She did arrive with her friend from school - so she had to have driven the whole distance. This timeline needs a little work.
Speaking of using the friend's phone - this is a little weird, too and I don't understand. She is reached in the cafeteria in person because her phone is in her classroom. Next she uses the library phone because it's closer. Then apparently she rushes back to the classroom (my interpretation) to get her car keys - right? Now, not having had her phone the last few minutes for these incredibly important calls it seems she would have grabbed it too, but maybe she just hastily got her purse and the phone - wasn't in it? So then, everybody is at the house for days and days. When did she go back and get her phone? Maybe someone brought it to her. Those are just the little things I wonder about sometimes.
My opinions only, no facts here:
I did not provide a timeline after the arrival of the first police car, but was aware of the situation that you are discussing. I have been thinking about it, but I admit to being VERY conservative in my personal interpretations. I am pleased that you noticed this particular detail, though. The release of timelines in the past few days has really given a boost to the fellow sleuths.
Mr. Noatak
10-17-2011, 03:22 AM
His behaviour that morning was more than bizarre, imo. I'd love to have a sit down with him. lol
"Dude, there was no freakin turkey, quit the BS and tell me what happened"
My opinions only, no facts here:
To my good buddies at Websleuths: if you were going to simulate an event you would text, rather than use voice, which is unrecoverable (unless there is a wiretap warrant). I never trust text messages, for the reason that you never can be sure of who was tapping the keys. But I think that most of the contacts in this case, were NOT text. I wish the authorities could at least clear this detail up.
Mr. Noatak
10-17-2011, 03:36 AM
So.... whatever happened to Holly - I'm assuming she's no longer with us because of the blood and the elapsed time. Is it that hard for LE to find a body? If you have a limited amount of time to hide a body, you can't take it far. I wonder why they haven't found anything, especially if they searched with dogs. I'm having a hard time coming up with how you dispose of a body and leave no trace in so little time. If you put it in a car and drive off, you still have to put it somewhere, and your car will have lots of DNA evidence in it for the police. They checked the ponds. Anybody know where the grandmother's 60 acres is in relation to Bobo's? All I heard was "across the county."
My opinions only, no facts here:
I have proposed a search area in a much earlier post at Websleuths. I suggested this area, centered upon the premise that anybody could have committed the crime. It works for any suspect. Probably incorrect, but based upon logic and not any claims of magical abilities.
Mr. Noatak
10-17-2011, 03:49 AM
Was Clint stalling? Is that why he came up with the silly preserving crime scene excuse by telling his mom and others not to go into the woods? hmmmm
I still think she was put in a vehicle right there by the carport.
My opinions only, no facts here:
I am very pleased by all of the insightful analyses I have seen at Websleuths in the past day or two. It does not mean the sleuths are correct, but that the sleuths are daring to think outside the box.
I personally also have considered the possibility that the getaway vehicle was parked in the driveway or on the main road close by. Keep an open mind my good friends.
Mr. Noatak
10-17-2011, 03:59 AM
I can't imagine the family being free the next few days to go scatter Holly's belongings though...didn't LE settle in there right away, and they were probably being interviewed all the time.
While Clint's conflicting stories (and they ARE conflicting) don't make sense, I don't suspect him of anything other than possibly a below average IQ and even that is just a guess. If his mom was worried enough to tell him to get a gun and get out there and he still doesn't have much of a reaction, we are probably dealing with a rather slow-witted guy and I am not trying to "slam" him, but at that point, he has a hysterical, by her own words, mom on the phone and he gets the gun and still basically saunters outside? Plus Mom has a witness or more than one to her reaction, and Dad likely has witnesses that he was at work all morning.
My opinion is that Holly was kidnapped and that the most unfortunate part, besides that fact, is that Clint was the witness, as he clearly is not a solid one. JMOJMOJMOJMOJMO
My opinions only, no facts here:
I have to admit, that in the same situation, I would be tempted to call my sister and boyfriend on the cell phone, before I rushed into the woods with the gun loaded and ready to pull the trigger on someone I hardly even knew, if at all.
Trident
10-17-2011, 04:06 AM
What kind of entire town can be silenced at the request of LE or anyone else? Stepford?
If you will recall, and IF I am correct, the same thing happened in the Kyron case. Remember the email Kaine sent to co-workers about gossiping? Do you recall some sort of a newsletters circulated by the lady who owned the church building across the road from the school? She asked that people not say anything, speculate, gossip. I'm always suspicious when people say "don't talk",
it's kinda like, "Don't open that box, Pandora!"
JMO
shefner
10-17-2011, 05:47 AM
Ok...I am headed off on a cruise for the next 6 days....please have this case figured out when I get home! LOL
Holly, where are you? Please come home.....
~n/t~
10-17-2011, 06:06 AM
Ok...I am headed off on a cruise for the next 6 days....please have this case figured out when I get home! LOL
Holly, where are you? Please come home.....
Have a fabulous holiday!! :seeya:
What? It's not solved yet? I thought we solved it. :floorlaugh:
Whisperer
10-17-2011, 07:53 AM
Ok...I am headed off on a cruise for the next 6 days....please have this case figured out when I get home! LOL
Holly, where are you? Please come home.....
:seeya: Hurry back, Shefner, we need you. That fresh open air on the sea is just what you need to clear out any cobwebs in your head. If we haven't solved it in a week, we will hold out for your fresh mind to do so.
..I think we should all go with you and make it a working cruise. :floorlaugh:
mountainguy777
10-17-2011, 08:34 AM
Karen has an incredible reaction that holly is walking into the woods.
Teacher and classmates are crying and concerned.
100's show up at bobo home fast.
Obviously we are missing the entire backstory to this. These are not "normal" reactions to "walking into woods" with supposed boyfriend, and not showing up for school on any given day.
Whisperer
10-17-2011, 08:36 AM
Re: first day of bow or firearm season..
Not sure If that helps answer your question or not..
My gut tells me if Clint was NOT supposed to be @ home that morning, it is because he was planning on going turkey hunting. He is a turkey enthusiast.
It has been stated that he spoke w/Drew the prior evening about turkey hunting but never asked Drew where he was hunting. Am I the only one that finds that odd? Since he and Drew are friends and have pics of them hunting together, why wouldn't he know where drew was going and why wasn't he going along with him?
Clint loves hunting turkeys. He is home and people are saying he was not usually home at that time. I am betting he was home to go hunting with drew...but apparently, plans changed. Why?
~n/t~
10-17-2011, 08:42 AM
My gut tells me if Clint was NOT supposed to be @ home that morning, it is because he was planning on going turkey hunting. He is a turkey enthusiast.
It has been stated that he spoke w/Drew the prior evening about turkey hunting but never asked Drew where he was hunting. Am I the only one that finds that odd? Since he and Drew are friends and have pics of them hunting together, why wouldn't he know where drew was going and why wasn't he going along with him?
Clint loves hunting turkeys. He is home and people are saying he was not usually home at that time. I am betting he was home to go hunting with drew...but apparently, plans changed. Why?
Maybe his license expired but went ahead anyway? And that's why a tragic accident is being swept under the rug? He would be in a heck of a lot of legal trouble if that is what happened.
ETA: Yes I also found it unusual that he and Drew didn't discuss where he was going to hunt.
NCSleuth
10-17-2011, 08:43 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:
Well, I would not put this in my timeline because it is a personal speculation and because I am still unclear about the account concerning the figures in the garage- but if figures WERE seen in the garage I would pick the 7:40 to 7:45 AM time interval.
We can't ignore the figures in the garage, its not speculation, CB said it himself in the interview. In that interview he said that is why he got in contact with his mom, to see who they were.
Then, in the latest newpaper article, CB states he didn't wake up until 7:50.
~n/t~
10-17-2011, 08:48 AM
I think those closest to Holly should be brought in for re interviewing.
Whisperer
10-17-2011, 09:14 AM
I wonder if drew did tell clint where he was hunting...and it was right there on clint's property. I also wonder if clint was hunting with him. If there is a solid witness to place drew at a different property in south county, then drew should be excluded. It should not read that EVERYONE is a suspect. Drew would clearly not be in the group of suspects if he was observed elsewhere.
UNLESS, the total timeline is not accurate and LE knows it. I wish LE would be kind enough to advise the public whenever a suspect is ruled out.
~n/t~
10-17-2011, 09:27 AM
I wonder if drew did tell clint where he was hunting...and it was right there on clint's property. I also wonder if clint was hunting with him. If there is a solid witness to place drew at a different property in south county, then drew should be excluded. It should not read that EVERYONE is a suspect. Drew would clearly not be in the group of suspects if he was observed elsewhere.
UNLESS, the total timeline is not accurate and LE knows it. I wish LE would be kind enough to advise the public whenever a suspect is ruled out.
The relative not recognizing Drew bothers me a lot and then followed by the flurry of phone calls. Did Drew finally get permission to hunt there or not? If not, did he decide to hunt on the Bobo property? OR was it someone else with dad on grandma's property and Drew decided to hunt with Clint instead?
birpu
10-17-2011, 09:37 AM
Well, cool, SmoothOperator. I've very much enjoyed reading your posts.
Good morning all. According to all I have seen of the timeline (such as it is) and I don't have time to quote the articles here, but I can later if you want, Clint supposedly grabs a gun after the last call from Mom as she is speeding back home with her friend. Next, he goes out to the garage and sees the blood, at which time the neighbor whose son heard the scream pulls up in the driveway. Followed by the noise of the police car engines on Swan Johnson Road, the police, mom, and the entire population from the nearby woods and beyond.
Here's my question. Is Clint brandishing a hand weapon when everyone shows up? Did he go back inside to lock the gun away? When did he do that? He says in speaking of the neighbor's arrival, that he might have had his phone on his side or in his hand (odd thing to mention in my opinion) and probably didn't speak to her, but just called 911, "like mom said." (He does give off the "mama's boy" vibe, does he not? )
MizStery
10-17-2011, 11:17 AM
I wonder if drew did tell clint where he was hunting...and it was right there on clint's property. I also wonder if clint was hunting with him. If there is a solid witness to place drew at a different property in south county, then drew should be excluded. It should not read that EVERYONE is a suspect. Drew would clearly not be in the group of suspects if he was observed elsewhere.
UNLESS, the total timeline is not accurate and LE knows it. I wish LE would be kind enough to advise the public whenever a suspect is ruled out.
Schafer have a great cruise. We will behave and follow TOS rules and not sleuth where you are sailing.:seeya:
Whisperer,your quote(highlighted)occurred to me also. Thanks for voicing it. If Drew has an alibi or a solid witness...why cannot we eliminate him as a suspect???
Also,I am still trying to figure what the backstory is!
Anyhow, no disrespect intended,but I just could not help but recall the famous quote in one of the Pink Panther movies...
"I believe everything and I believe nothing. I suspect everyone and I suspect no one."
Inspector Clouseau
sammi89
10-17-2011, 11:50 AM
Well, cool, SmoothOperator. I've very much enjoyed reading your posts.
JUST SPECULATING:
Good morning all. According to all I have seen of the timeline (such as it is) and I don't have time to quote the articles here, but I can later if you want, Clint supposedly grabs a gun after the last call from Mom as she is speeding back home with her friend. Next, he goes out to the garage and sees the blood, at which time the neighbor whose son heard the scream pulls up in the driveway. Followed by the noise of the police car engines on Swan Johnson Road, the police, mom, and the entire population from the nearby woods and beyond.
Here's my question. Is Clint brandishing a hand weapon when everyone shows up? Did he go back inside to lock the gun away? When did he do that? He says in speaking of the neighbor's arrival, that he might have had his phone on his side or in his hand (odd thing to mention in my opinion) and probably didn't speak to her, but just called 911, "like mom said." (He does give off the "mama's boy" vibe, does he not? )
I've only recently started reading about this case (I heard about it after reading some of the Lauren Spierer case) so forgive me if I'm completely off or if this has already been addressed, but I think birpu raises a great point: is there any way to prove his mom told him to get the gun? From what I've read here, I'm leaning toward the accident theory. I think, if he had accidentally shot his sister, one of the biggest concerns would be that his DNA/fingerprints was on the gun. Because the timeline seems so tight, the boyfriend or someone else would likely have had to been there while he was making all of these phone calls to remove Holly from the scene. Another variation of this could be that the boyfriend was the one who pulled the trigger, but regardless, we would get to the same end point: brother and boyfriend hunting together, an accident occurs, and instead of getting help, they tried to hide the scene (maybe it was fatal?). This could explain the mother's reaction (crumbling to the floor) as well: instead of telling her Holly was with a strange man, he was actually telling her that something horrible had happened, Holly was injured/dying/dead/etc.
The coverup/lies would be that his mother told him to grab a gun. First, I think that is a strange reaction: nothing in the narrative so far seems to warrant that a gun was necessary. Couldn't he have just strolled out and called out to them? I feel like grabbing a gun would come later, when he actually realized, "oh hey, something is actually wrong," which he clearly didn't, based on his belief that the man in question was the boyfriend. Second, if he already had a gun on him because HE HAD ACTUALLY BEEN HUNTING ALL ALONG, this would give him a necessary excuse: I wasn't hunting, I grabbed it to protect Holly.
The other big one would be the boyfriend hunting on grandma's land. How long have they been dating? Has he been to family functions? It seems likely they wouldn't recognize the boyfriend's family, so if his dad went out anyway and took a friend, this could explain the confusion. Maybe that's what even caused some of it. When did the dad stop hunting? Drew clearly had to be at work, so I just can't see him hunting at that time. Maybe he was already on the Bobo property and his dad went later with a friend, and then grandma got confused. Maybe Drew called Holly out while they were making these phone calls and while she was out there trying to figure it out, something tragic happened?
Again, all just speculation.
R.U.Kidding!
10-17-2011, 11:59 AM
Hey, what do you all make of this statement from the recent article in the Jackson Sun, Oct 13?
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20111013/NEWS25/110130314
It sure sounds to me like he is saying Clint's (and others'?) statements are on record - and Clint can now recall something else, but he believes what Clint first said, and is hinting that Clint can't quite remember exactly what that was - but he has it. It's recorded. Do you get the same thing from this?
So Birpu,
It is your opinion that this recent article is not being taken seriously, as TBI has written documentation from day one as to what had taken place, and this NEW info is suspect?
If that is the case then perhaps we should disregard the current article, and go back to the one we were using prior to the Oct 13 .
......and I suppose this explains why TBI has not cleared anyone. As Whisperer said , maybe TBI knows the witness account is bogus and until they sort it out EVERYONE would be suspect.
houndstooth
10-17-2011, 12:20 PM
Karen has an incredible reaction that holly is walking into the woods.
Teacher and classmates are crying and concerned.
100's show up at bobo home fast.
Obviously we are missing the entire backstory to this. These are not "normal" reactions to "walking into woods" with supposed boyfriend, and not showing up for school on any given day.
Except the people who decided what the backstory was, could be the same people who were scripting the front.
I heard that KB screamed out BBs name when she dramatically fell to the floor. Then I looked up his bio and photos. Death threats from that guy?
Sorry, but "pipsqueek" was the word that came to mind to describe this so-called 'villain'.
birpu
10-17-2011, 01:49 PM
So Birpu,
It is your opinion that this recent article is not being taken seriously, as TBI has written documentation from day one as to what had taken place, and this NEW info is suspect?
If that is the case then perhaps we should disregard the current article, and go back to the one we were using prior to the Oct 13 .
......and I suppose this explains why TBI has not cleared anyone. As Whisperer said , maybe TBI knows the witness account is bogus and until they sort it out EVERYONE would be suspect.
My opinion is simply that the TBI is making a very strong and challenging statement. Sort of saying, you guys can spin this any way you want to remember it, but we have your original description of events that day. He is unambiguous as far as I'm concerned. I think he is talking directly to the family.
birpu
10-17-2011, 02:04 PM
Schafer have a great cruise. We will behave and follow TOS rules and not sleuth where you are sailing.:seeya:
Whisperer,your quote(highlighted)occurred to me also. Thanks for voicing it. If Drew has an alibi or a solid witness...why cannot we eliminate him as a suspect???
Also,I am still trying to figure what the backstory is!
Anyhow, no disrespect intended,but I just could not help but recall the famous quote in one of the Pink Panther movies...
"I believe everything and I believe nothing. I suspect everyone and I suspect no one."
Inspector Clouseau
Well, I'm with the good Inspector Clouseau!
I don't think we can eliminate Drew based on what we have heard so far. He could have been hunting at Grandma's and then come over to the Bobo's. He could have been hunting at the Bobo's all along, and the Grandma's land story is made up for the express purpose of having him appear to be nowhere near the Bobo's. Who's the relative? Why not say Uncle Jim? And what time was that if it happened? If Holly walked off at 7:50, and Drew's encounter on Grandma's land was prior to 7:30, that doesn't clear him at all. The thing is, until we can be sure WHEN something happened to Holly, all alibis are useless.
And where the heck IS Grandma's property? Anybody?
birpu
10-17-2011, 02:19 PM
Karen has an incredible reaction that holly is walking into the woods.
Teacher and classmates are crying and concerned.
100's show up at bobo home fast.
Obviously we are missing the entire backstory to this. These are not "normal" reactions to "walking into woods" with supposed boyfriend, and not showing up for school on any given day.
Except, Mountainguy777, of the people at school around Karen when she dramatically reacted to the call about the scream (not yet about the people in the garage, or walking into the woods according to what she has said), nobody there could understand her reaction. "They just thought I was having this sort of panic." Or something to that effect. So not everybody was on razor's edge. Only Karen "just knew" at that point.
I have a problem with the "backstory" idea. This is tough to say, because at some point I'm going to get booted off here for talking about the family - that's why I never posted until now. Everything I was thinking was off-limits. So if I disappear, I have just dug my own Websleuths grave.
I got a distinct "acting" vibe from Karen at the original press conference, others totally believed her emotions, but I just didn't. I also wondered about the dramatic over-the-top "panic" at the school. Classic over-acting? Now think if your daughter was just abducted by a known threat - the backstory. Would you say "Please, please, somebody, if anybody has seen anything or knows anything, please...." Heck. I'd be saying something direct like "Please bring her back! Please! We'll do anything to get her back! Just bring her back safely! Please!" Because you know they have her.
Now if on the other hand you know she's not alive, you would be trying to say what you think you should say. This just didn't sound right to me.
Totally my opinion, but I had the exact same reaction to Susan Smith. I didn't feel any weird vibes from Dana, however.
~n/t~
10-17-2011, 03:01 PM
Except the people who decided what the backstory was, could be the same people who were scripting the front.
I heard that KB screamed out BBs name when she dramatically fell to the floor. Then I looked up his bio and photos. Death threats from that guy?
Sorry, but "pipsqueek" was the word that came to mind to describe this so-called 'villain'.
Who is BB?
mountainguy777
10-17-2011, 03:19 PM
Who is BB?
Blake Barnett
~n/t~
10-17-2011, 03:24 PM
Blake Barnett
Holly's ex? Thanks
houndstooth
10-17-2011, 03:39 PM
Except, Mountainguy777, of the people at school around Karen when she dramatically reacted to the call about the scream (not yet about the people in the garage, or walking into the woods according to what she has said), nobody there could understand her reaction. "They just thought I was having this sort of panic." Or something to that effect. So not everybody was on razor's edge. Only Karen "just knew" at that point.
I have a problem with the "backstory" idea. This is tough to say, because at some point I'm going to get booted off here for talking about the family - that's why I never posted until now. Everything I was thinking was off-limits. So if I disappear, I have just dug my own Websleuths grave.
I got a distinct "acting" vibe from Karen at the original press conference, others totally believed her emotions, but I just didn't. I also wondered about the dramatic over-the-top "panic" at the school. Classic over-acting? Now think if your daughter was just abducted by a known threat - the backstory. Would you say "Please, please, somebody, if anybody has seen anything or knows anything, please...." Heck. I'd be saying something direct like "Please bring her back! Please! We'll do anything to get her back! Just bring her back safely! Please!" Because you know they have her.
Now if on the other hand you know she's not alive, you would be trying to say what you think you should say. This just didn't sound right to me.
Totally my opinion, but I had the exact same reaction to Susan Smith. I didn't feel any weird vibes from Dana, however.
Me too. I speak as a former bootie, as it were, though.
I also didn't buy the over-acting, but more importantly, that she did not come prepared to bring a BOLO photo to this all important presser to get her face out there. I read someting into the omission like she knew she wasn't really missing, not that here is an opportunity for a wider group of people to know who to look for.
But, even LE referred to the case as alleged abduction so why can't we investigate as if this were only alleged?
Okay so long nooooooooooooooow.....
:maddening:
mountainguy777
10-17-2011, 04:18 PM
Holly's ex? Thanks
One of her exes, yes.
MizStery
10-17-2011, 04:49 PM
Hi birpu,
I think we can both agree with the good Inspector Clouseau! I had a question for you all ready to send and I took a moment to read the latest posts and magically you had answered it. Could you use that clairvoyant gift of yours to solve this for us? Smooth Operator recognized immediately how your fresh eyes would contribute to this thread. I have a long way to go but thanks to you I am confident I can eventually catch up. :bud:
I do have a question....do you think James heard a scream coming from the Bobo's at 7:40 that morning?
MOO
birpu
10-17-2011, 04:51 PM
The relative not recognizing Drew bothers me a lot and then followed by the flurry of phone calls. Did Drew finally get permission to hunt there or not? If not, did he decide to hunt on the Bobo property? OR was it someone else with dad on grandma's property and Drew decided to hunt with Clint instead?
I really think there is more to this tidbit than meets the eye. Just the fact that they even bothered to tell this story to start with raises my eyebrows. Why now? It doesn't help find Holly at all. It never would have, because it doesn't establish the last time they saw her, for example, because... well, Clint, woods, etc. Are they trying to explain all the calls around 7:30? Nobody would know about those except probably the police. Why did they bring this out now? I can hardly believe it's just idle chat with the media. They didn't say a single WORD to the media for almost four months after the press conference. So many explanations for things that.... why are they explaining this again? Is there a sensible explanation for the explanation?
sammi89
10-17-2011, 06:01 PM
I really think there is more to this tidbit than meets the eye. Just the fact that they even bothered to tell this story to start with raises my eyebrows. Why now? It doesn't help find Holly at all. It never would have, because it doesn't establish the last time they saw her, for example, because... well, Clint, woods, etc. Are they trying to explain all the calls around 7:30? Nobody would know about those except probably the police. Why did they bring this out now? I can hardly believe it's just idle chat with the media. They didn't say a single WORD to the media for almost four months after the press conference. So many explanations for things that.... why are they explaining this again? Is there a sensible explanation for the explanation?
I posed this earlier and haven't really heard much of a response: could the brother have been calling the mother because there had been an accident with Holly? Could she have been injured/dying/dead, and that was why the mother had such a reaction? If so, these people aren't killers. They probably freaked out. Regardless if only the police would find out about the calls, they probably worried it would somehow get out, so they came up with an explanation. If untrue, it seems rather odd: I too am bothered by the idea that HB's relative did not recognize the boyfriend. If they have been dating for awhile and it is a small town, I think it would be highly unusual to have never met the relative.
cluciano63
10-17-2011, 06:03 PM
I really think there is more to this tidbit than meets the eye. Just the fact that they even bothered to tell this story to start with raises my eyebrows. Why now? It doesn't help find Holly at all. It never would have, because it doesn't establish the last time they saw her, for example, because... well, Clint, woods, etc. Are they trying to explain all the calls around 7:30? Nobody would know about those except probably the police. Why did they bring this out now? I can hardly believe it's just idle chat with the media. They didn't say a single WORD to the media for almost four months after the press conference. So many explanations for things that.... why are they explaining this again? Is there a sensible explanation for the explanation?
For one, they are trying to give Drew an alibi, since Clint thought the man was Drew even after Mom said it wasn't; Mom is pressing the point that it could not have been Drew, which is why we are hearing about the hunting snafu.
Why we AREN'T hearing, this time around, about Clint hearing their voices, is unexplained. And why, of course, he felt they would not get her back for a long time. That one blows my mind, much as I hate that phrase.
wishuwerehere
10-17-2011, 06:16 PM
Except, Mountainguy777, of the people at school around Karen when she dramatically reacted to the call about the scream (not yet about the people in the garage, or walking into the woods according to what she has said), nobody there could understand her reaction. "They just thought I was having this sort of panic." Or something to that effect. So not everybody was on razor's edge. Only Karen "just knew" at that point.
I have a problem with the "backstory" idea. This is tough to say, because at some point I'm going to get booted off here for talking about the family - that's why I never posted until now. Everything I was thinking was off-limits. So if I disappear, I have just dug my own Websleuths grave.
I got a distinct "acting" vibe from Karen at the original press conference, others totally believed her emotions, but I just didn't. I also wondered about the dramatic over-the-top "panic" at the school. Classic over-acting? Now think if your daughter was just abducted by a known threat - the backstory. Would you say "Please, please, somebody, if anybody has seen anything or knows anything, please...." Heck. I'd be saying something direct like "Please bring her back! Please! We'll do anything to get her back! Just bring her back safely! Please!" Because you know they have her.
Now if on the other hand you know she's not alive, you would be trying to say what you think you should say. This just didn't sound right to me.
Totally my opinion, but I had the exact same reaction to Susan Smith. I didn't feel any weird vibes from Dana, however.
BBM - Totally disagree w/you on this. I believe Karen and Dana’s pain is very real.
JMO
birpu
10-17-2011, 06:43 PM
I know many people did read Karen's reactions as real - that could very well be, nobody can say for certain. Clearly whether she was hiding anything or not, she would be very upset either way, in my opinion. So I'm just saying how it felt to me, which is only instinct.
What did you think of her demeanor during the JVM family interview (in particular, her body language and facial expressions when Clint was asked a question)? What did you think of Clint's demeanor? Just curious how you see that, and if it seemed normal to you.
cluciano63
10-17-2011, 06:48 PM
I know many people did read Karen's reactions as real - that could very well be, nobody can say for certain. Clearly whether she was hiding anything or not, she would be very upset either way, in my opinion. So I'm just saying how it felt to me, which is only instinct.
What did you think of her demeanor during the JVM family interview (in particular, her body language and facial expressions when Clint was asked a question)? What did you think of Clint's demeanor? Just curious how you see that, and if it seemed normal to you.
Personally, my take on Karen is that she is majorly concerned about protecting both Clint and Drew. Maybe deep down she feels it is too late to protect Holly, and there is no way she plans to allow either of them to be blamed. But I honestly don't think she knows what happened; she may have a suspect in her mind, but it is not either of them, in my opinion.
birpu
10-17-2011, 07:08 PM
Personally, my take on Karen is that she is majorly concerned about protecting both Clint and Drew. Maybe deep down she feels it is too late to protect Holly, and there is no way she plans to allow either of them to be blamed. But I honestly don't think she knows what happened; she may have a suspect in her mind, but it is not either of them, in my opinion.
So, then you think she is protecting them from unwarranted suspicion (in her mind) on the part of LE?
wishuwerehere
10-17-2011, 07:34 PM
I know many people did read Karen's reactions as real - that could very well be, nobody can say for certain. Clearly whether she was hiding anything or not, she would be very upset either way, in my opinion. So I'm just saying how it felt to me, which is only instinct.
What did you think of her demeanor during the JVM family interview (in particular, her body language and facial expressions when Clint was asked a question)? What did you think of Clint's demeanor? Just curious how you see that, and if it seemed normal to you.
I think grief is an SOB. It brings up feelings you never even knew existed. Put that in front of a camera…
It’s very difficult to judge people on emotion alone. Throw in some facts (if you can find them)… then let’s talk.
Wonless
10-17-2011, 10:56 PM
His behaviour that morning was more than bizarre, imo. I'd love to have a sit down with him. lol
"Dude, there was no freakin turkey, quit the BS and tell me what happened"
N/T I agree with you about the rose colored glasses, and also about Clint's story. My point about the video of the TBI/Sheriff's news conference is this...why go to so much trouble to DEMOSTRATE the method of the "dragging" of Holly if Clint Bobo had not explicitely made statements to that effect. Now Clint says there was no dragging...it can only be that Clint's story has changed. I say that because LE or anyone might make a mistake in saying "Lead" vs "Dragged" but not in specifically demostrating the technique of the interaction unless that was the statement that was made. You are right, if its not the truth, its a lie.
That leaves what really happened...hows this...Clint has someone in the house with him that the family doesn't know about...call it a "friend". CB and this friend get to horsing around with Holly while she is trying to leave for school. Something bad happens, and one thing leads to another..they come up with a story and "friend" leaves with Holly and Clint stays behind to cover up the story...
AnonymousD
10-17-2011, 11:06 PM
Here is the link to the timeline at the JacksonSun.com. Unfortunately it gives just a few paragraphs then informs you to view the entire article in Sunday's paper. So unfortunately I cannot give you a link to the entire article.
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/jacksonsun/access/2480682311.html?FMT=FT&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&fmac=63c7f75d10ebe15ab8aa0cb8a3eb0e13&date=Oct+9%2C+2011&author=Jordan+Buie&pub=The+Jackson+Sun&desc=Final+hours+with+Holly%3A+Family%2C+friends%2 C+police+reconstruct+ti
me+before+Holly+Bobo%5C%27s+abduction
I will go by my memory,please posters correct me if any thing I say is inaccurate. An article from he Jackson Sun said that James lived in a mobile home next to his parents which is approx.350 feet from the Bobo's home. James was about to get into his car to go to work. He hears the scream coming from the Bobo home. He calls his mother inside her home and tells her about the scream. James continues to work. James mother calls Holly's mother and the chain of events is in Mr. Noatak's timeline. I believe other posters have watched video or read more details perhaps even giving more details about exactly what James heard.
I feel confident if James has an alibi he is a reliable witness to what exactly happened that morning.I can find no motive for him to mislead authorities. Perhaps even more crucial is his account is independent from the families statements. James provides a critical link as to the exact time and provides continuity in the chaotic retelling of what happened that morning.MOO
BBM
Here is a link to the entire article:
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20111009/NEWS25/110090330/Final-hours-Holly-Family-friends-police-reconstruct-time-before-Holly-Bobo-s-abduction
Wonless
10-17-2011, 11:25 PM
I think there is another possiblity for Clint Bobo's Actions and Statements. I think its possible that Clint has a drug and/or Achohol problem. I think its very possible that he was intoxicated or hungover on the morning of the accident which my have lead to his behavior and statements. I think that this may be the pink elephant in the room about Clint with regard to the family.
Clint's actions and statements in the various interviews we have seen since the family started talking indicate to me that a drug/achohol problem is very possible...IMO.
MizStery
10-18-2011, 01:45 AM
BBM
Here is a link to the entire article:
http://www.jacksonsun.com/article/20111009/NEWS25/110090330/Final-hours-Holly-Family-friends-police-reconstruct-time-before-Holly-Bobo-s-abduction
Thanks for the link!
At 7:40 James,a neighbor hears a scream 350 yards away at the Bobo home. He tells his mother about the scream.His mother calls the secretary at Holly's mother's school with the message that a scream was heard coming from the Bobo's
home.
At every step the witness has said singular scream. But,when using CB own words from his statement he says,"The neighbor pulled up
and she said she heard screams about 15 or 20 minutes ago and that was
about eight o'clock". Poor CB does not even respond to the neighbor's alarm over hearing a scream or say i.e. "Oh no,Holly and a man just walked in the woods!" instead he calls mom.
(this is word for word the Jackson Sun linked above).
Now I believe Clint at that point is shocked to see the neighbor and that someone heard it. He knows there is a pool of blood and now a scream to account for not to mention a person has vanished and he is the only eye witness to this?? Perhaps
he had been coached in what to say. Unfortunately a fly in the ointment presents itself with James raising the alarm on hearing a scream. CB says
screams instead of scream but claims he heard nothing. I think it messed up his script and he cant't think on his feet. The link to the story is in AnonymousD post. MOO
Hippy Chick
10-18-2011, 02:11 AM
From what I understand it was the first day of Turkey Hunting Season. But...I am totally clueless of what that all means. Do they use bow and arrows to hunt turkeys?
Can you tell I'm a city girl? :floorlaugh:
LOL yes I can tell, I was thinking on the accident theroy of she was shot by a bow versus a gun there would not have been a noise, This is a messy case I have been back and forth in my head dozens of times about what happened to her. There is something going on but I just can't place what it is...
Hippy Chick
10-18-2011, 02:34 AM
I think there is another possiblity for Clint Bobo's Actions and Statements. I think its possible that Clint has a drug and/or Achohol problem. I think its very possible that he was intoxicated or hungover on the morning of the accident which my have lead to his behavior and statements. I think that this may be the pink elephant in the room about Clint with regard to the family.
Clint's actions and statements in the various interviews we have seen since the family started talking indicate to me that a drug/achohol problem is very possible...IMO.
I agree thats why he was so addled that morning I bet he had been out most of the night drinking or doping or both, thats why he wasen't hunting to stoned or hung over to go,
Mr. Noatak
10-18-2011, 02:40 AM
Hi birpu,
I think we can both agree with the good Inspector Clouseau! I had a question for you all ready to send and I took a moment to read the latest posts and magically you had answered it. Could you use that clairvoyant gift of yours to solve this for us? Smooth Operator recognized immediately how your fresh eyes would contribute to this thread. I have a long way to go but thanks to you I am confident I can eventually catch up. :bud:
I do have a question....do you think James heard a scream coming from the Bobo's at 7:40 that morning?
MOO
My Opinions only, no facts here:
I covered this question a short while ago. I think that this particular time may be OK, because the witness had to hear the scream while leaving for work AND relay the info to his mother. Under those cirumstances, this might be one of the most accurate parts of the timeline.
Mr. Noatak
10-18-2011, 02:52 AM
N/T I agree with you about the rose colored glasses, and also about Clint's story. My point about the video of the TBI/Sheriff's news conference is this...why go to so much trouble to DEMOSTRATE the method of the "dragging" of Holly if Clint Bobo had not explicitely made statements to that effect. Now Clint says there was no dragging...it can only be that Clint's story has changed. I say that because LE or anyone might make a mistake in saying "Lead" vs "Dragged" but not in specifically demostrating the technique of the interaction unless that was the statement that was made. You are right, if its not the truth, its a lie.
That leaves what really happened...hows this...Clint has someone in the house with him that the family doesn't know about...call it a "friend". CB and this friend get to horsing around with Holly while she is trying to leave for school. Something bad happens, and one thing leads to another..they come up with a story and "friend" leaves with Holly and Clint stays behind to cover up the story...
My opinions only, no facts here:
It is important to stick to the 20 minute window, between the scream and the first police car arriving. That is the amount of time available to remove Holly from the scene. Until we have additional info, the theory should conform to that timeline. I say this with all due respect, as I am limited to news reports only.
Dewey2Me1MoThyme
10-18-2011, 02:57 AM
What i don't get, James hears a scream, aparently he thought it was a scream as in panic / threat or he would not have called his mother. Clint sees his sister dragged/ pulled / lead into the woods and waits for a call from his mother. Are the men cowards or mommas' boys in that neck of the woods. Not one male took action other than by phone? Makes no sense to me.
MizStery
10-18-2011, 02:57 AM
My Opinions only, no facts here:
I covered this question a short while ago. I think that this particular time may be OK, because the witness had to hear the scream while leaving for work AND relay the info to his mother. Under those cirumstances, this might be one of the most accurate parts of the timeline.
Thank-you for your confirmation. I just keep reading and refining over the same parts I think are rock solid. I just keep going over and over them....wondering if there is something I missed. I appreciate your opinion. I am careful to try and identify in my mind which events are lifted from the morning of Holly's abduction and which have been revised. I also agree with other posters that CB is either afraid or being used. I really feel sorry for him. In a way CB is a victim too. I will be shocked if I am proved otherwise about him. MOO
birpu
10-18-2011, 03:22 AM
I think grief is an SOB. It brings up feelings you never even knew existed. Put that in front of a camera…
It’s very difficult to judge people on emotion alone. Throw in some facts (if you can find them)… then let’s talk.
Let me rephrase my statement a bit. Of course their grief is real, whatever happened. The question is, is it a result of knowing Holly is missing, or knowing Holly is dead? I think the two might look different.
birpu
10-18-2011, 03:27 AM
Hi birpu,
I think we can both agree with the good Inspector Clouseau! I had a question for you all ready to send and I took a moment to read the latest posts and magically you had answered it. Could you use that clairvoyant gift of yours to solve this for us? Smooth Operator recognized immediately how your fresh eyes would contribute to this thread. I have a long way to go but thanks to you I am confident I can eventually catch up. :bud:
I do have a question....do you think James heard a scream coming from the Bobo's at 7:40 that morning?
MOO
I agree with Mr. Noatek that this is one of the more verifiable bits of information we have. We still don't know with certainty who screamed, however.
Mr. Noatak
10-18-2011, 03:31 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:
In the Jamison family (Oklahoma), McStay family (California) and the Maura Murray cases, it was relatively straightforward to develop hypotheses and identify suspects and/or victim locations and sensible investigative strategies. In these three cases almost all of the evidence was laid upon the table by the investigators. But in the Holly Bobo case I have only been privy to indirect "evidence" and rumors. I am ashamed to admit the huge amounts of effort I have put into this seemingly-secretive Holly Bobo case, without knowing a smit of what the authorities know. I have looked at just about everyone involved and uninvolved, including names and addresses not known to Websleuths. But without complementary factual info from the investigators working the Holly Bobo case, I am hog-tied.
Having said this, I want to point out that in the 80's I miserably failed in my analysis of the Green River Killer (before the internet). I predicted that he was unmarried and living with his mother AND failed to recognize that he liked to revisit the victims that he had previously dumped by the road. I do not intend to make similarly egregious mistakes and have had a pretty solid record since those early days. But I need at least a few crumbs of official evidence in the Holly Bobo case to figure it out. OK, whining completed.
birpu
10-18-2011, 03:40 AM
My opinions only, no facts here:
In the Jamison family (Oklahoma), McStay family (California) and the Maura Murray cases, it was relatively straightforward to develop hypotheses and identify suspects and/or victim locations and sensible investigative strategies. In these three cases almost all of the evidence was laid upon the table by the investigators. But in the Holly Bobo case I have only been privy to indirect "evidence" and rumors. I am ashamed to admit the huge amounts of effort I have put into this seemingly-secretive Holly Bobo case, without knowing a smit of what the authorities know. I have looked at just about everyone involved and uninvolved, including names and addresses not known to Websleuths. But without complementary factual info from the investigators working the Holly Bobo case, I am hog-tied.
Having said this, I want to point out that in the 80's I miserably failed in my analysis of the Green River Killer (before the internet). I predicted that he was unmarried and living with his mother AND failed to recognize that he liked to revisit the victims that he had previously dumped by the road. I do not intend to make similarly egregious mistakes and have had a pretty solid record since those early days. But I need at least a few crumbs of official evidence in the Holly Bobo case to figure it out. OK, whining completed.
Mr. Noatek,
Really glad you are back on this thread after your absence for a bit. I imagine you to be ensconced in a leather chair in your library at home, having a spot of bletted medlar on toast, with an aged port, grumbling about the noisy neighborhood children (who are somewhat afraid of you), though you secretly put a brand new soccer ball in their yard as you walked your corgi late the previous evening. Please don't shatter my illusions.
Way back when you entered this thread or not long thereafter, you said at one point you could solve this case if you had - was it the answers to three things...? I can't find that post. One of them was who took a lie detector test and what the results were. Or, who did NOT take a test. I can't remember - I was very curious at the time to hear what those three points would reveal. But you never said. Do those three things still stand as being critical to solving this case for you? And what were they, since I can't remember?
~n/t~
10-18-2011, 06:40 AM
We need a statement from TBI NOW. This is ridiculous. Is anything being done to find the truth? Is anyone still searching? Are they just sitting and waiting for leads and tips to come in? Why haven't they cleared anyone? :banghead:
~n/t~
10-18-2011, 06:51 AM
I would have to assume TBI has asked the family to provide a list of people who may have wanted to harm Holly or the family? If so, were they checked out? After 6 months they still haven't cleared anyone? WTH?
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