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Just K
10-20-2011, 06:04 PM
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=3620+n+lister+ave+Kansas+City,+MO&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x87c0f98353c40819:0x31183ff9de7bf43e,3620+N +Lister+Ave,+Kansas+City,+MO+64117&gl=us&ei=rPGeTprWD9PhsQKWz4zoCQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CB8Q8gEwAA

Birdseye view from google show that cars are parked in the back on the concrete. Just zoom in and you will see cars parked in the back.

pferrin
10-20-2011, 06:06 PM
Mine asked which planets the illegal ones came from and which planets were legal to come from.

Thanks I needed this..Too Cute

linajoy
10-20-2011, 06:08 PM
This may be old news, but just saw on the local KC news that during the search yesterday investigators were seen loading 2 shovels that were covered in evidence bags into the crime scene van.:(

Just K
10-20-2011, 06:08 PM
I remember seeing a picture of what looked like a work van and a car parked in the driveway when crime scene tape was up. I always assumed that was his work van.
that's what I remember, too but I just wonder why he parked in the front when they have virtually a parking lot behind the house.

josie1986
10-20-2011, 06:10 PM
I wonder also if they found the diapers DB just purchased, the baby food and empty box of wine, was all the wine gone, was any baby food used, was the packaging in the trash etc

I don't agree this woman was a simple soul, I think she is as savvy as the rest of us and is quite capable of disposing of evidence or setting up a crime scene. Her socioeconomic status is not an indication of her intelligence or street smarts. Yet I still find it hard to imagine she hurt her baby purposely, Lisa looked like a perfectly happy, smiling and blemish free baby girl so what happened must have been sudden, either she was re-homed or mommy could have smothered her in a drunken/drug induced stupor.

I wonder if the diapers and food could have been sent with Lisa to her new home.....here's hoping

do we know what kind of diapers it was the DB purchased? was thinking that if they were the same brand as the ones found in the abandoned house it would be more than a coincidence. i do remember the diapers being discussed and that the packaging was older with blues clues on it? i don't know if its the same in KS but where i live they just keep nappies on the shelf til their sold as im not aware that they have a use by date on them??:waitasec:

askfornina
10-20-2011, 06:14 PM
do we know what kind of diapers it was the DB purchased? was thinking that if they were the same brand as the ones found in the abandoned house it would be more than a coincidence. i do remember the diapers being discussed and that the packaging was older with blues clues on it? i don't know if its the same in KS but where i live they just keep nappies on the shelf til their sold as im not aware that they have a use by date on them??:waitasec:

during one of Megyn Kelly's broadcasts where she was outside of the house, there was a trash bin with an empty box of the same brand (Luvs) diapers in it. i do not find this to be more than a coincidence though, IMO.

MyBelle
10-20-2011, 06:15 PM
Maybe the neighbor bought the wine. Someone earlier in the week mentioned something about baby food could be purchased on a card (food stamps) however, the baby wipes wouldn't be covered.

Do we know for certain that baby wipes were also purchased? If so, the card she used must have been a credit card. I do think the purchase was intentional, to be used to show she was a "good mother." I doubt she considered that LE would not only pull receipts but also security video.

JMO

lauriej
10-20-2011, 06:17 PM
do we know what kind of diapers it was the DB purchased? was thinking that if they were the same brand as the ones found in the abandoned house it would be more than a coincidence. i do remember the diapers being discussed and that the packaging was older with blues clues on it? i don't know if its the same in KS but where i live they just keep nappies on the shelf til their sold as im not aware that they have a use by date on them??:waitasec:

..she didn't purchase diapers at the store that day.

..she bought baby food and baby wipes. ...and wine.

laura.anne
10-20-2011, 06:18 PM
Do we know for certain that baby wipes were also purchased? If so, the card she used must have been a credit card. I do think the purchase was intentional, to be used to show she was a "good mother." I doubt she considered that LE would not only pull receipts but also security video.

JMO

IF (and it's a big if) she is receiving benefits she may have cash benefits on her EBT card (again IF she is receiving benefits), which would allow her to purchase baby wipes with. Who knows though...

josie1986
10-20-2011, 06:19 PM
during one of Megyn Kelly's broadcasts where she was outside of the house, there was a trash bin with an empty box of the same brand (Luvs) diapers in it. i do not find this to be more than a coincidence though, IMO.

now i think about what i wrote i realize that alot of people must buy that brand.the diapers imo are the one thing that should still be in the house.they were purchased on the day lisa disappeared even if she did open the packet there would have been maybe 2-3 out it. no reason to throw them in the trash unless she knows lisa isn't going to need them. jmo of course

i wouldnt be throwing nappies away, they cost me a fortune.

im blabbering on now so i'll be quiet :great:

Just K
10-20-2011, 06:20 PM
http://gapcache.lingospot.com/2011/10/05/Amber_Alert_Kansas_City_MOKAS203.large.jpg

http://media.kansas.com/smedia/2011/10/04/21/17/353-kBjAv.SlMa.81.jpg

Look at all the things that were in front and near the front door on Day 1 that are no longer there!

~n/t~
10-20-2011, 06:20 PM
That is a new tweet, the video was posted about an hour ago, but no tweets.

It is actually two spray painted stars and a spray painted moon, that I think the artisan meant to be half moon but is it 3/4, the artisan has not honed their craft at this state. a.k.a. Teen Graffiti

I am imagining a large group of teens in KC talking on their cells, texting, and sending Facebook message full of guffaws right now. Hope their networks can handle it. Lol.

I'm more curious about the tunnel. What tunnel? I guess I'll go read back to see if I can find the video. :sigh:

pinkfly
10-20-2011, 06:22 PM
Do we know for certain that baby wipes were also purchased? If so, the card she used must have been a credit card. I do think the purchase was intentional, to be used to show she was a "good mother." I doubt she considered that LE would not only pull receipts but also security video.

JMO

So if she told them about going to the store and about buying the baby stuff and (possibly) wipes but did not mention the separate wine purchase.......that would really make her look deceitful.

josie1986
10-20-2011, 06:22 PM
..she didn't purchase diapers at the store that day.

..she bought baby food and baby wipes. ...and wine.

im starting to think im losing my mind,no idea why i thought she bought diapers

and my previous post now makes no sense :banghead::floorlaugh:

Just K
10-20-2011, 06:23 PM
I think there are motion lights on the front left corner (driveway side) of the roof's edge. There also seems to be a bird feeder that I have never noticed. Behind the recycle bins it looks like there is a shovel, too. (CORRECTION: IT LOOKS LIKE A SPONGE MOP)

http://media.kansas.com/smedia/2011/10/05/23/21/139-QYo24.SlMa.81.jpg

Abby Normal
10-20-2011, 06:26 PM
He would get in a lot of trouble once and if DFAS researches his pay. She won't face any penalty's except maybe welfare fraud depending on what she reported.

IIRC- I think someone on an early thread found where formal custody was established- father being required to provide child support and medical insurance. If that is true, it indicates a legal separation. In which case there would be no fraud going on.

sarx
10-20-2011, 06:26 PM
I don't believe in coincidences, but I'm not sure if I can use that as a reason to connect the dots with the diapers. Luvs is not exactly an uncommon brand, and I'm sure if other homes were polled in the subdivision there would be more luv boxes, kwim?

Nefriahaia
10-20-2011, 06:27 PM
..she didn't purchase diapers at the store that day.

..she bought baby food and baby wipes. ...and wine.

I hope she didn't give Lisa wine to try and get her to sleep!!!!!!!

Lera213
10-20-2011, 06:30 PM
IIRC- I think someone on an early thread found where formal custody was established- father being required to provide child support and medical insurance. If that is true, it indicates a legal separation. In which case there would be no fraud going on.

That would be correct if that is the case however if DB was on any time of gov. assistance then one would have to know what she stated on that application. If she held back any monies then that would be fraud. A BIG IF but something LE could investigate.

MyBelle
10-20-2011, 06:34 PM
So if she told them about going to the store and about buying the baby stuff and (possibly) wipes but did not mention the separate wine purchase.......that would really make her look deceitful.

iirc, LE pulled the store security video AFTER they found the receipt for the wine.

Her actions not only make her LOOK deceitful, it sorta proves she really was deceitful.

JMO

Abby Normal
10-20-2011, 06:36 PM
That would be correct if that is the case however if DB was on any time of gov. assistance then one would have to know what she stated on that application. If she held back any monies then that would be fraud. A BIG IF but something LE could investigate.

I think they are pretty big about the child support thing. Meaning, I think if you don't claim child support and there is a father's name on the BC you are obligated to pursue child support legally. I could be wrong though. I work as a child advocate for the foster system, and for the school system. So I only know things from tidbits I get here and there.

You're right though- if there is proof of fraud she can and should be held accountable. I think it's just been speculation to date.

Lera213
10-20-2011, 06:39 PM
I think they are pretty big about the child support thing. Meaning, I think if you don't claim child support and there is a father's name on the BC you are obligated to pursue child support legally. I could be wrong though. I work as a child advocate for the foster system, and for the school system. So I only know things from tidbits I get here and there.

You're right though- if there is proof of fraud she can and should be held accountable. I think it's just been speculation to date.

Totally agree just saying this is an angle LE could pursue. If that one previous neighbor is factual in what she stated then there is a history of defrauding for gain.

~n/t~
10-20-2011, 06:41 PM
re-creation of Jeremy coming home:

Police step up search for missing Missouri infant - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfr10gtr2wU&feature=related)


Oh, HELL no!!

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20537999,00.html

But when he peeked in on then 10-month-old daughter Lisa, her light was on and the crib was empty.

That, Irwin tells PEOPLE in this week's cover story, "is when all hell broke loose."

He walked through the unlocked front door, past Lisa's OPEN, lit up bedroom to the window in the computer room?! Never saw or suspected a thing until he's at the other end of the house talking to Debbie?!


Why is everyone saying the version changed? In the short recreation, he goes into Lisa's room and then goes to talk to Debbie? What am I missing?

JeannieC
10-20-2011, 06:42 PM
I hope she didn't give Lisa wine to try and get her to sleep!!!!!!!

I've thought the same thing. Mixed with cold medication it could be deadly and too much alone would be for a baby. A drunk mother might not think about the danger involved in doing something like that. It could have been a bad drunken decision that DB is now trying to cover.

If Lisa is deceased and DB knows this it makes me wonder what kind of mother would not want her child to buried. Would rather put her somewhere hidden hoping she'll never be found.

I'm not accusing anyone. Just wondering and hoping Beautiful Little Lisa is alive and will be found soon.

MOO

LillieBelle
10-20-2011, 06:45 PM
I will be physically ill if the parents have been selling pictures and videos of Lisa, is this confirmed somewhere? Who the heck benefits financially from their MISSING child?!?!?!

I think they get "licensing fees" every time the network uses the pictures...that is how to get around saying they don't pay for interviews, such as the ones the parents have done. They have received money (IMHO) and that is how they are able to afford the PI and high priced attorney...

JeannieC
10-20-2011, 06:47 PM
I think they get "licensing fees" every time the network uses the pictures...that is how to get around saying they don't pay for interviews, such as the ones the parents have done. They have received money (IMHO) and that is how they are able to afford the PI and high priced attorney...

The PI was not hired by the family. He said he doesn't work for the family either.

In da Middle
10-20-2011, 06:47 PM
Those photos in and around the driveway side and the back of the house reminded me of a few very clear photos that I saw of the back corner of the house.

There are several spotlight lights on the driveway side top corner of the house and a couple more near the deck. If they are motion triggered lights then they would come on if anyone was on the back or side of the house. I haven't noticed if there were any on the front (driveway side) corner of the house.

Also, with a garage and other vehicles parked in the back. Why did JI come in through the front door? Or did he? If he parked where the other vehicles were parked, in the back, then how did he notice the screen pushed into the open front window? If he parked in the back then he would have triggered the motion lights and why would he walk up the driveway to enter through the front door.

If he parked in the front was that normal?It was very common to see their vehicles parked at the 'top' of the driveway. Much easier to get in rather going around back and going thru the basement to get upstairs anyway. Just as you see in the very first clips of the house.

marge_rita
10-20-2011, 06:50 PM
I'm already designing my "Free The KC Three" shirts. ;)

Hey now, I love my Free the WM3 tee. Maybe a different theme for the KC people. lol

marge_rita
10-20-2011, 06:53 PM
I'm guessing there was no baby monitor in the home? I haven't heard it mentioned..

It's been mentioned but I don't know which thread it was mentioned on.

There was a baby monitor both in the baby's room and the mom's room IIRC.

MyBelle
10-20-2011, 06:56 PM
That would be correct if that is the case however if DB was on any time of gov. assistance then one would have to know what she stated on that application. If she held back any monies then that would be fraud. A BIG IF but something LE could investigate.

The Govt verifies information on the application. Things like court-mandated child support would show up when they checked. The fact that Jeremy and his son were living in her home with her would not show up unless the govt visited the home. So, if all the govt could find listed as her income would be the child support, then it is likely her family of "three" is receiving several benefits in several programs including: food stamps, energy assistance, wic.

JMO

In da Middle
10-20-2011, 06:57 PM
im starting to think im losing my mind,no idea why i thought she bought diapers

and my previous post now makes no sense :banghead::floorlaugh:
Because that is what the media 'reported' (if you can call it that) at first.

madge
10-20-2011, 06:57 PM
the basement in the house keeps bugging me. How many hiding places in a basement. How difficult could it be for someone to come in that way to assist with disposal of a body and have the diversion on the front door unlocked and the window supposedly not in place. I just get bad vibes with that basement. Was it also living space I wonder or even a bathroom down there with all sorts of drains, etc.

madge
10-20-2011, 06:59 PM
also, I could have swore I saw an ADT sign but maybe it was in a neighbors yard

Just K
10-20-2011, 07:01 PM
http://media.kansas.com/smedia/2011/10/05/23/21/139-QYo24.SlMa.81.jpg

Does it bother anyone else that LE and detectives in general can often be seen barehanded touching door handles and other things where important fingerprints might be or might have been?

Lillith
10-20-2011, 07:01 PM
I totally agree with this.

I was a victim of an armed robbery a few months ago. When the guy robbed me, I initially told police that he asked if we were still selling beer (He took beer, cigarettes, and money). It was only when the adrenaline stopped pumping and I was able to think more cleary that I remembered that he actually asked WHERE the beer was. That's what I told the detective on my next interview. My story didn't change, per se, but I was able to remember things that at first were clouded by shock and adrenaline. JM2cents :)

I agree with this also, I've been a bit shocked at the expectation of perfectly recalled details. If I was in their situation you'd all be thinking I was guilty, I forget everything! The last time I flew interstate I caught a cab from the airport and left my suitcase in the cab. I can't even remember the last time I had it ..... and I was sober :waitasec:

Peazzzer
10-20-2011, 07:02 PM
Come on and join WS Guests! It rocks! I love this sight! :bananalama: :welcome3: :rock: :welcome: :welcome2: :rock: :welcome4: :yourock: :party: :partyguy: And welcome new peeps! :hen:

marge_rita
10-20-2011, 07:03 PM
http://media.kansas.com/smedia/2011/10/05/23/21/139-QYo24.SlMa.81.jpg

Does it bother anyone else that LE and detectives in general can often be seen barehanded touching door handles and other things where important fingerprints might be or might have been?

Just K,
Surprised me. I keep thinking maybe those officers were not touching possible evidence, but it looks like more than one or 2 didn't wear gloves when they touched certain items.


imo

marge_rita
10-20-2011, 07:04 PM
Come on and join WS Guests! It rocks! I love this sight! :bananalama: :welcome3: :rock: :welcome: :welcome2: :rock: :welcome4: :yourock: :party: :partyguy: And welcome new peeps! :hen:

Peazzzerk,
I'll just copy what you said. :floorlaugh:

In da Middle
10-20-2011, 07:06 PM
http://media.kansas.com/smedia/2011/10/05/23/21/139-QYo24.SlMa.81.jpg

Does it bother anyone else that LE and detectives in general can often be seen barehanded touching door handles and other things where important fingerprints might be or might have been?
This was taken after all of the fingerprinting was done. Image info says the 6th.

belimom
10-20-2011, 07:09 PM
the basement in the house keeps bugging me. How many hiding places in a basement. How difficult could it be for someone to come in that way to assist with disposal of a body and have the diversion on the front door unlocked and the window supposedly not in place. I just get bad vibes with that basement. Was it also living space I wonder or even a bathroom down there with all sorts of drains, etc.

I get a bad vibe about the whole back of the house. DB keeps putting all of the attention on the front:

- front window open
- front door unlocked
- on front porch with friend (despite a nice back deck)

I think she wants LE to focus on the front b/c all the evidence is in the back. MOO

Rallihanna
10-20-2011, 07:11 PM
Okay- saw on another site a rumor that evidence was found in the shed... anyone heard this? Just a rumor I'm guessing.

SmoothOperator
10-20-2011, 07:12 PM
Not sure if this article has been posted but I was interested specifically in the quote below pertaining to a certain procedure involving the dogs that was done yesterday at the home and was the specific purpose for not allowing media to record(nor aerial view) any part of this procedure with the dogs taking place..

Does anyone know more about this procedure?? I know Sarx was here earlier.. You still around, Sarx?? Just wanted to hear your take on what might this LE be talking about?? We know there have been multiple(I know of more than 2) different occasions the dogs have been already brought into search the home and property(and allegedly vehicles as well).. So what could this procedure be that they wanted to make certain wasn't filmed in any capacity whatsoever.. It must have been taking place outside in the back?? Otherwise why would they be so concerned about it possibly being recording if it were inside out of the view of cameras???

TIA to anyone who may know about this:)

FBI spokeswoman Bridget Patton said Wednesday’s search was not based on any sort of tip. Authorities restricted media access, Patton said, because agents were using a procedure involving dogs that they didn’t want to be recorded. She declined to elaborate.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/police-have-a-warrant-to-again-search-kansas-city-home-of-missing-baby-lisa-irwin/2011/10/19/gIQAv129wL_story.html

~n/t~
10-20-2011, 07:13 PM
http://media.kansas.com/smedia/2011/10/05/23/21/139-QYo24.SlMa.81.jpg

Does it bother anyone else that LE and detectives in general can often be seen barehanded touching door handles and other things where important fingerprints might be or might have been?

When was this photo taken? It could be they had already lifted fingerprints off doors and windows. Also, if and when fingerprints are sent for analysis they can eliminate those who had contact (LE, lab technicians) etc. However, there is a greater risk of contamination if fingerprints weren't properly lifted and/or foreign prints appear on the tests. They can get a false negative which could render the evidence useless.

I was a little bothered by the report and posts here yesterday that the carpet/rug was taken out of the home and then spread out on the lawn. This morning there was a photo of an FBI agent sitting on a computer chair outside on the front yard. Not sure if that was an item taken from the home or not but it did leave me :waitasec:

We'll just have to assume they're the experts and know what they're doing. I hope!

belimom
10-20-2011, 07:15 PM
Not sure if this article has been posted but I was interested specifically in the quote below pertaining to a certain procedure involving the dogs that was done yesterday at the home and was the specific purpose for not allowing media to record(nor aerial view) any part of this procedure with the dogs taking place..

Does anyone know more about this procedure?? I know Sarx was here earlier.. You still around, Sarx?? Just wanted to hear your take on what might this LE be talking about?? We know there have been multiple(I know of more than 2) different occasions the dogs have been already brought into search the home and property(and allegedly vehicles as well).. So what could this procedure be that they wanted to make certain wasn't filmed in any capacity whatsoever.. It must have been taking place outside in the back?? Otherwise why would they be so concerned about it possibly being recording if it were inside out of the view of cameras???

TIA to anyone who may know about this:)

I asked Sarx about it, and she wouldn't answer -- she feels that if LE doesn't want it to get out what they were doing with the dogs, then she doesn't want to post what it may be.

I can respect that, even though I want to know... :innocent:

ETA: Here it is -


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7253257&postcount=537

I really do hate to do this, but if they are asking it not be taped, then I feel I shouldn't answer it either. Hope everyone understands. Even what we say in here can be ammo for the defense, so I don't want to do that.

marge_rita
10-20-2011, 07:16 PM
The parents have not sat down and spoken with detectives for more than a week, and efforts to re-interview two older children, who were in the home on the night of the disappearance, have been refused, police said Wednesday.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/19/3218089/16-days-in-the-lisa-irwin-case.html#ixzz1bMo41ySk

Lera213
10-20-2011, 07:17 PM
There could have been brown paper bag spread out on the carport then the rug placed on top and packaged up. The chair could have come from the bomb squad van.

Just K
10-20-2011, 07:18 PM
When was this photo taken? It could be they had already lifted fingerprints off doors and windows. Also, if and when fingerprints are sent for analysis they can eliminate those who had contact (LE, lab technicians) etc. However, there is a greater risk of contamination if fingerprints weren't properly lifted and/or foreign prints appear on the tests. They can get a false negative which could render the evidence useless.

I was a little bothered by the report and posts here yesterday that the carpet/rug was taken out of the home and then spread out on the lawn. This morning there was a photo of an FBI agent sitting on a computer chair outside on the front yard. Not sure if that was an item taken from the home or not but it did leave me :waitasec:

We'll just have to assume they're the experts and know what they're doing. I hope!
I went back and checked and the image info says it was taken on the 5th http://media.kansas.com/smedia/2011/10/05/23/21/139-QYo24.SlMa.81.jpg

I thought it was on day one but it was day two. So, presumably it had already been tested. But now I am wondering why a sponge mop that was behind the recycle bins on Day 1 was there after people started putting memorials out. I'll have to look for pictures from this week to see if it is still there. A sponge mop is something I would think they would have taken.:waitasec:

sarx
10-20-2011, 07:20 PM
I asked Sarx about it, and she wouldn't answer -- she feels that if LE doesn't want it to get out what they were doing with the dogs, then she doesn't want to post what it may be.

I can respect that, even though I want to know... :innocent:

Thank you Belimom. You are correct. I have a pretty good idea of what they were doing, but it is important to them that it be kept quiet and I will not breach that even in a remote way when I am not a part of the case personally. If a time comes out when it is disclosed I will be happy to help explain things further in any way I can.

I am not one to beat around the bush, and try to answer as much as I can, those that know me on here know that. So... if I'm keeping quiet, it's for good reason. I hope everyone understands.

Rallihanna
10-20-2011, 07:21 PM
Thank you Belimom. You are correct. I have a pretty good idea of what they were doing, but it is important to them that it be kept quiet and I will not breach that even in a remote way when I am not a part of the case personally. If a time comes out when it is disclosed I will be happy to help explain things further in any way I can.

I am not one to beat around the bush, and try to answer as much as I can, those that know me on here know that. So... if I'm keeping quiet, it's for good reason. I hope everyone understands.

Oh sure- pique my curiosity more! J/k.... We know you're doing the right thing!

marge_rita
10-20-2011, 07:23 PM
meanwhile there was another vigil wednesday night, after another night and still no sign of lisa irwin.

someone needs to be held accountable for what is happening to this baby," said dr. Sugar lee lewis, a former educator.
http://www.kctv5.com/story/15731314/investigators-scour-home-of-missing-baby-lisa-irwin-for-clues
click here to read kctv5's team coverage of the search for lisa.

jjenny
10-20-2011, 07:25 PM
Thank you Belimom. You are correct. I have a pretty good idea of what they were doing, but it is important to them that it be kept quiet and I will not breach that even in a remote way when I am not a part of the case personally. If a time comes out when it is disclosed I will be happy to help explain things further in any way I can.

I am not one to beat around the bush, and try to answer as much as I can, those that know me on here know that. So... if I'm keeping quiet, it's for good reason. I hope everyone understands.

Do you think they are using cadaver dogs?

~n/t~
10-20-2011, 07:26 PM
Not sure if this article has been posted but I was interested specifically in the quote below pertaining to a certain procedure involving the dogs that was done yesterday at the home and was the specific purpose for not allowing media to record(nor aerial view) any part of this procedure with the dogs taking place..

Does anyone know more about this procedure?? I know Sarx was here earlier.. You still around, Sarx?? Just wanted to hear your take on what might this LE be talking about?? We know there have been multiple(I know of more than 2) different occasions the dogs have been already brought into search the home and property(and allegedly vehicles as well).. So what could this procedure be that they wanted to make certain wasn't filmed in any capacity whatsoever.. It must have been taking place outside in the back?? Otherwise why would they be so concerned about it possibly being recording if it were inside out of the view of cameras???

TIA to anyone who may know about this:)

I thought this was interesting!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-csi-death-dogs-sniffing-out-the-truth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

Just K
10-20-2011, 07:27 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-17-hour-search-family-home/story?id=14779537

From yesterday's search at 1:10 on the video the sponge mop is still there resting against the house. Just odd, why don't they take it and test it?

belimom
10-20-2011, 07:30 PM
I thought this was interesting!
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-csi-death-dogs-sniffing-out-the-truth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

I scanned the article in your link... and now I have an awful feeling... it has to do with LE digging up the trees and moving brush and digging. I have a feeling they're looking at other stuff - that may have been there much longer than Lisa's disappearance. Just a hunch and I could be wrong (and probably am). But, you wouldn't have to dig up trees and brush to get at something buried within the past two weeks. MOO

God I hope I'm wrong. :(

ETA: Again, DB/JI are trying to keep the focus on the *front* of the house, yet LE is focused on the *back* - and focused on foundations, digging, moving trees, etc.

belimom
10-20-2011, 07:31 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-17-hour-search-family-home/story?id=14779537

From yesterday's search at 1:10 on the video the sponge mop is still there resting against the house. Just odd, why don't they take it and test it?

I think someone posted that it was gone at the end of the day. It was bugging quite a few of us...

sarx
10-20-2011, 07:31 PM
Do you think they are using cadaver dogs?
I think it's safe to say they have probably used HRD dogs a number of times in a number of places, that's pretty much, or should be standard in any case like this.

josie1986
10-20-2011, 07:35 PM
I scanned the article in your link... and now I have an awful feeling... it has to do with LE digging up the trees and moving brush and digging. I have a feeling if they're looking at other stuff - that may have been there much longer than Lisa's disappearance. Just a hunch and I could be wrong (and probably am). But, you wouldn't have to dig up trees and brush to get at something buried within the past two weeks. MOO

God I hope I'm wrong. :(

ETA: Again, DB/JI are trying to keep the focus on the *front* of the house, yet LE is focused on the *back* - and focused on foundations, digging, moving trees, etc.

what do u think could be there longer than the time frame of lisa's disappearance?

Just K
10-20-2011, 07:37 PM
I sure wish LE had sealed that house from day 1 and not let anyone in. There are photos of DB leaving with clothes and JI, too. The phones could have been in the pile of clothes or the backpacks.

~n/t~
10-20-2011, 07:43 PM
I sure wish LE had sealed that house from day 1 and not let anyone in. There are photos of DB leaving with clothes and JI, too. The phones could have been in the pile of clothes or the backpacks.

Me too! They were in and out as they pleased. If they are involved, they could have taken whatever evidence with them.

With that said, I'm still on the fence so I wonder if anything else was fingerprinted inside the home regardless of whether one believes the parents are involved or if this is a kindapping situation. Lisa's bedding was still in the home as far as I know. They may have taken it yesterday but that's 16 days too late, imo.

Lera213
10-20-2011, 07:43 PM
What if the kill area isn't in the house!

Just K
10-20-2011, 07:46 PM
Gonna go now. I am seriously bummed out.

marge_rita
10-20-2011, 07:59 PM
I sure wish LE had sealed that house from day 1 and not let anyone in. There are photos of DB leaving with clothes and JI, too. The phones could have been in the pile of clothes or the backpacks.

Me too! Why didn't LE immediately think of the home as a crime scene? A baby was missing.........a CRIME had occured.

IDK I just want to cry.

imo

katydid23
10-20-2011, 08:02 PM
I think it was fine for HLN to show the graffitti in the little concrete ditch right near the home. To me it just shows that some teens have been hanging out there, and probably smoking pot or drinking there. It might turn out to be important info.

And about the possibility of wine being given to the baby to drink. I doubt that an 11 month old would drink much wine. It tastes pretty nasty to a little baby and if she did drink much she would throw it up, imo.

Peazzzer
10-20-2011, 08:03 PM
Its on NG now. Guests, join us!

madge
10-20-2011, 08:05 PM
Makes me wonder what all was taken by the parents during those visits. I don't think the phones are gonna be recovered. Too much time has elapsed and they let them go in there willy nilly. the phones were probably removed by DB on the first visit out of the home.

In da Middle
10-20-2011, 08:08 PM
Me too! Why didn't LE immediately think of the home as a crime scene? A baby was missing.........a CRIME had occured.

IDK I just want to cry.

imo
They did. The house was held for 1-3 days (can't remember which) and the road was blocked during the investigation.

PlainJaneDoe
10-20-2011, 08:19 PM
Welcome to all the new members! :seeya:

~n/t~
10-20-2011, 08:21 PM
They did. The house was held for 1-3 days (can't remember which) and the road was blocked during the investigation.

But the parents were able to go in and out as they pleased.....and so could other family members, right?

cece5300
10-20-2011, 08:22 PM
Am I the only person who doesn't think LE has found anything crucial? I hope I'm wrong; I am so anxious for sweet baby Lisa to be found! But I just don't feel like they've found anything...

madge
10-20-2011, 08:28 PM
keep thinking about the stark difference in this family's response and other missing childrens family's response. No searchs, no tents up, no pictures, no interviews where they BEG for the babies return! Haleigh Cummings family did at least go on tv and try to bring attention to the baby being missing.

I'd be crying, begging, pleading, doing every interview I could to get my childs picture out there. This case is going to go cold in a few more days and I can't help but wonder if the parents won't be glad, the way they have just shut themselves away it makes you wonder if heck, maybe the baby is NOT missing at all!

madge
10-20-2011, 08:29 PM
Am I the only person who doesn't think LE has found anything crucial? I hope I'm wrong; I am so anxious for sweet baby Lisa to be found! But I just don't feel like they've found anything...

items of evidenciary value found per JVM show..for what it's worth

In da Middle
10-20-2011, 08:29 PM
But the parents were able to go in and out as they pleased.....and so could other family members, right?
I dont believe they were for the first day or two. The first day they were being questioned all day during the time the house was processed.

JeannieC
10-20-2011, 08:32 PM
I think it was fine for HLN to show the graffitti in the little concrete ditch right near the home. To me it just shows that some teens have been hanging out there, and probably smoking pot or drinking there. It might turn out to be important info.

And about the possibility of wine being given to the baby to drink. I doubt that an 11 month old would drink much wine. It tastes pretty nasty to a little baby and if she did drink much she would throw it up, imo.

BBM

Children get poisoned and die everyday from drinking household cleaners, rubbing alcohol, Mouthwash, Hand Sanitizers, and alcoholic beverages. It doesn't take much for a small child.

The Effects of Alcohol Poisoning in Children


The effects of alcohol poisoning in children can be far more dangerous than those that are experienced by adults. For a start, the alcohol can lower the child’s blood sugar levels very quickly and it can also lower the body temperature. Children have a much larger surface area in relation to their overall weight and they will quickly become hypothermic.


The first few years of a child’s life are essential for development and any poisoning can affect this development and even lower intelligence. Some children may have been given alcohol deliberately by their parents in order to quieten them down, some parents don’t realise that even small amounts of alcohol can be fatal to infants and small children.


http://alcoholdetoxadvise.com/the-effects-of-alcohol-poisoning-in-children

mamamia54
10-20-2011, 08:36 PM
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/5053/pentagram.png

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/6690/fullshotpent.jpg

Oh bull dingies, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject at hand. Some people will pull anything into a case to attempt to navigate away from the true subject. Please.

Cuoco7
10-20-2011, 08:38 PM
I scanned the article in your link... and now I have an awful feeling... it has to do with LE digging up the trees and moving brush and digging. I have a feeling they're looking at other stuff - that may have been there much longer than Lisa's disappearance. Just a hunch and I could be wrong (and probably am). But, you wouldn't have to dig up trees and brush to get at something buried within the past two weeks. MOO

God I hope I'm wrong. :(

ETA: Again, DB/JI are trying to keep the focus on the *front* of the house, yet LE is focused on the *back* - and focused on foundations, digging, moving trees, etc.

I got that feeling too, regarding the digging of trees etc. I'm wondering what it could be. It's a bit puzzling.

belimom
10-20-2011, 08:38 PM
But the parents were able to go in and out as they pleased.....and so could other family members, right?

Just like JBR's family...

PlainJaneDoe
10-20-2011, 08:38 PM
Very true! I learned this in my trial advocacy class. Small inconsistencies, like which lights were on, are actually normal. I could even see the change between 6:40 and 7:30, given the traumatic event.

6:40 and 10:30 is a significant inconsistency, and not something that could be changed by suggestible memory, recovery from trauma, etc. Possible to be explained by "I wanted to say I checked on her again because I didn't want anyone calling me a bad mother," but there has to be an explanation. That inconsistency isn't small enough to be a minor change.

OT real fast...next month at Society for Neuroscience, there will be a symposium on neuroscience and the law. I can't wait!!!

belimom
10-20-2011, 08:41 PM
When I rule the world, I'm going to make it SOP that every home of a missing child is searched thoroughly from Day One and roped off from family until LE is done. And families won't complain b/c they'll know that it is SOP.

:Crown:

Peepers
10-20-2011, 08:44 PM
Am I the only person who doesn't think LE has found anything crucial? I hope I'm wrong; I am so anxious for sweet baby Lisa to be found! But I just don't feel like they've found anything...

I think its possible too. LE could be bluffing or grasping at anything, saying its got evidentary value. I hope Im wrong and they did find something of significance.

In da Middle
10-20-2011, 08:49 PM
When I rule the world, I'm going to make it SOP that every home of a missing child is searched thoroughly from Day One and roped off from family until LE is done. And families won't complain b/c they'll know that it is SOP.

:Crown:
The house WAS roped off and treated as a crime scene for the entire first day or two. Much video to prove it.

Whisperer
10-20-2011, 08:52 PM
What kind of floor covering was in baby Lisa's room?

Truthwillsetufree
10-20-2011, 08:53 PM
I think its possible too. LE could be bluffing or grasping at anything, saying its got evidentary value. I hope Im wrong and they did find something of significance.

Just a thought....Just because LE is saying that something from the house has evidentiary value does not indicate to me whether or not the focus is on the parents or an intruder/abductor simply because the crime took place inside the house....JMO

cluciano63
10-20-2011, 08:54 PM
I have a feeling that the next several days, or longer, will be ones of waiting for test results, with very little new activity or news. And if nothing comes from the test results, we may see a big drop-off in coverage of Lisa.

CarrieBean
10-20-2011, 08:56 PM
When I rule the world, I'm going to make it SOP that every home of a missing child is searched thoroughly from Day One and roped off from family until LE is done. And families won't complain b/c they'll know that it is SOP.

:Crown:

Let me know if you need an assistant.

CarrieBean
10-20-2011, 09:02 PM
The house WAS roped off and treated as a crime scene for the entire first day or two. Much video to prove it.

Yes, but obviously not searched thoroughly enough. How many hours did they spend there yesterday? Not saying these parents specifically, but how many people would object to a search in their home once LE starts tearing it apart?

mrye4709
10-20-2011, 09:04 PM
You know you watch too much news when.....

My 6 yr old GD just walked through while Lisa's picture was up. She said "that's a pretty baby, did an animal eat her?" I think she caught a little listen of the wild animals in Ohio earlier today. I told her I didn't know what happened to her, that she was missing. She then said "I know i'm right, cause i'm smart". Guess I better turn the channel more often.

Whisperer
10-20-2011, 09:05 PM
When Belimon rules the world, she will put a stop to potential suspects in missing child cases being able to clam up and hire criminal defense attorneys that tell them not to talk to LE. It is preposterous that these parents and perps can refuse to assist LE in the hunt for a missing baby/child. This hiding behind defense attorneys has got out of hand and needs to be stopped.

Whisperer
10-20-2011, 09:09 PM
It has become a fact now that likely perps walk because LE has not found a body. No more logic and no more piecing together of facts and evidence. Look at the jury in the Anthony trial. They expected a 1 hr show of CSI to convict. They didn't even have brains or cared to make time to figure it out. They wanted machines like they have on "Bones" to prove the case for them.

Our society and its need for speed has got way out of hand. People can't or won't even use their logic anymore. This case comes down to common sense. How often are ten month old babies kidnapped by strangers?

I had one who kidpnapped a three month old but that was for rape...Yes, it happens!! I hope and pray we are not looking at another sexual pervert like that...I don't think we are. Chances would be one in a million. The point is what would prompt a stranger to steal a ten month old?

cachmo
10-20-2011, 09:10 PM
I find it a little odd that there have been searches everyday but today. The day after the BIG home search. Did they find something that made them stop? Or just run out of ideas?

Whisperer
10-20-2011, 09:13 PM
I hoep we don't wind up with another Aisenberg case here .

cluciano63
10-20-2011, 09:15 PM
Everything is of "evidentiary value" until it isn't. That is a very noncommital way of putting it, from LE.

Whisperer
10-20-2011, 09:25 PM
Has is been stated what items of baby Lisa were missing the night she was taken?

Whisperer
10-20-2011, 09:29 PM
Ok, the father leaves at 5:20pm for work. The mother "Puts her down" at 6:40pm. Are we assuming she was fed, bathed and placed in p.j's prior to being "Put down"(mommy's chosen words)?

I say this child was not put to bed for the night. This baby was placed in a room with a bottle in her play clothes and the door was shut. Mommy was done...

JeannieC
10-20-2011, 09:30 PM
Has is been stated what items of baby Lisa were missing the night she was taken?

The only thing I'm aware of is the little outfit she was wearing. I believe they said she didn't have her paci, blanket, or a stuffed animal. Just her!

Do you know if the burned clothing they showed the parents were Lisa's clothing?

mck16
10-20-2011, 09:42 PM
The only thing I'm aware of is the little outfit she was wearing. I believe they said she didn't have her paci, blanket, or a stuffed animal. Just her!

Do you know if the burned clothing they showed the parents were Lisa's clothing?

I don't think so. I have a question, what do we know about this case that has come from LE? I can't think of anything. It seems to me all we have been told has come from the mother. The only thing it has been reported LE has said is that they have quit talking to them. I think no facts from LE is very strange. It makes me wonder if they have anything. jmo

plaidmom
10-20-2011, 09:47 PM
Yes, but obviously not searched thoroughly enough. How many hours did they spend there yesterday? Not saying these parents specifically, but how many people would object to a search in their home once LE starts tearing it apart?

I know I would. They can be very destructive.

If you want to come onto MY private property and start tearing into (80+ year old original) plaster walls and cutting into old-growth oak hardwood floors....well you are going to have to PAY for that :furious: if I am not found guilty. Plus pain and suffering (trust me...any old house owner knows what I am talking about....). Are taxpayers willing to fund this???

We have laws in this country against unlawful search and seizure and I for one am a fan. :twocents:

plaidmom
10-20-2011, 09:48 PM
Has is been stated what items of baby Lisa were missing the night she was taken?

I'd like to know if anything else is missing. Besides Lisa and the cell phones. Not just baby-stuff, but anything.

Yeah. I'm nosey.

JeannieC
10-20-2011, 09:49 PM
I don't think so. I have a question, what do we know about this case that has come from LE? I can't think of anything. It seems to me all we have been told has come from the mother. The only thing it has been reported LE has said is that they have quit talking to them. I think no facts from LE is very strange. It makes me wonder if they have anything. jmo

Our only news is from the parent, LI and the news media. I don't think LE has said anything. I do hope and pray they are building a strong case against whoever took or is responsible for the disappearance of this little one.

It will take time to go through all the evidence they have and I believe they have something by now. I hope they have something by now. I don't know who did what but I know Lisa is missing and they need to find her first. Its so hard every day not knowing if she's dead or alive. I can't imagine what the family is feeling.

Peepers
10-20-2011, 09:54 PM
The only thing I'm aware of is the little outfit she was wearing. I believe they said she didn't have her paci, blanket, or a stuffed animal. Just her!

Do you know if the burned clothing they showed the parents were Lisa's clothing?


That just made me think of something..if someone came and grabbed the baby (and the cell phones), why not grab the blanket and pacifier or bottle in case the baby woke up, to keep her quiet?

Peepers
10-20-2011, 09:56 PM
Seems kind of simple, but now no way do I believe some intruder came in the house and grabbed the baby and 3 cell phones with no pacifier, blanket, bottle..nothing else....no way.

mck16
10-20-2011, 10:01 PM
Our only news is from the parent, LI and the news media. I don't think LE has said anything. I do hope and pray they are building a strong case against whoever took or is responsible for the disappearance of this little one.

It will take time to go through all the evidence they have and I believe they have something by now. I hope they have something by now. I don't know who did what but I know Lisa is missing and they need to find her first. Its so hard every day not knowing if she's dead or alive. I can't imagine what the family is feeling.

What is LI? tia

plaidmom
10-20-2011, 10:04 PM
Seems kind of simple, but now no way do I believe some intruder came in the house and grabbed the baby and 3 cell phones with no pacifier, blanket, bottle..nothing else....no way.

<<<rumor and speculation alert>>>

Unless...this was planned in advance and they already had those things.

:waitasec:

djm41
10-20-2011, 10:09 PM
When my kids were babies, we had so many pacifiers, I doubt I would know if one was missing. I used to find them under the crib, couch cushions etc. Maybe Lisa only had 1?

curiousc
10-20-2011, 10:10 PM
mitchweber Mitch Weber
The vehicle the parents of #lisairwin left in this morning around 11 just returned to the house on Walrond w/o parents pic.twitter.com/JtnroiJN

http://twitter.com/#!/mitchweber

This was 3 hours ago, but I didn't even know they left today.

SurfieTX
10-20-2011, 10:12 PM
What is LI? tia

Baby Lisa = Lisa Irwin (LI)

Ada
10-20-2011, 10:19 PM
DB is married to her first husband who is in the military, she has to report her income which is zilch, she has to report child support which I'm sure she is getting because if not the gov would go after the husband for that child support when your on welfare right? That would mean trouble for her first husband. I say she had wic and food stamps only.

I say she had no govt assistance unless she lied about her living situation. Electricians make a decent living.

disclaimer: Not sure if it all states include all household incomes in the calculations. Mine does.

mck16
10-20-2011, 10:20 PM
Baby Lisa = Lisa Irwin (LI)

Thanks but JeannieC responded to my post please see above and said that the only news we had was from parents, LI, and media. That is why I asked what LI was. Does this even make sense. Trying to watch series too. tia

post #601

lag28wa
10-20-2011, 10:24 PM
I say she had no govt assistance unless she lied about her living situation. Electricians make a decent living.

disclaimer: Not sure if it all states include all household incomes in the calculations. Mine does.

I think some states only make you report the income of the mother or "family unit" so if the parents are not married then if the father works they may not take his income into account, (even though they should if he is contributing financially to the child!) so legally the mother is a "single parent" without a marriage license.

Have no clue about MO though.

JMO

KCMommie
10-20-2011, 10:25 PM
Am I the only person who doesn't think LE has found anything crucial? I hope I'm wrong; I am so anxious for sweet baby Lisa to be found! But I just don't feel like they've found anything...

I don't know what to think of this either. I've read cases where LE have held evidence to build their case, be it testing results or further leads to close any gaps, and other cases where there is immediate action. I do not blame them for not releasing anything. If something heinous did happen to this poor child; Missouri does not want another Anthony incident. I'd rather wait for news so LE can make darn sure that nothing is given away and it's air tight.

I would think with a Grand Jury involved, high profile case this has turned into... every base is going to be covered. I just wish they would find her too. If DB was drunk and harmed this child, walking distance is about the radius I would check. If that child is not there there is another party involved. It becomes very complicated for only one person to cover up. I'm fearful that Lisa has been put into the Missouri River. How this happened with a non-driving intoxicated mother... I'm not sure. If this is the case, it will be surprising if they ever find her again. It makes me sick.

JeannieC
10-20-2011, 10:27 PM
What is LI? tia

My mistake, I meant to type DB not LI...................sorry

plaidmom
10-20-2011, 10:44 PM
:borgsmile: you guys aren't sleuthing the teen are you? I didn't think so...

it is a :nono:

((this lands at random))

I do have a general question about minors though?

Hope you (and perhaps an admin?) can answer here:

No sleuthing of minors! - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Abby Normal
10-20-2011, 10:50 PM
Seems kind of simple, but now no way do I believe some intruder came in the house and grabbed the baby and 3 cell phones with no pacifier, blanket, bottle..nothing else....no way.

Isn't that what happened in the Abeyta case? And the baby's crib was IN the parent's room.

It does seem implausible, that's why LE focused on those parents too.

CarrieBean
10-20-2011, 10:52 PM
I know I would. They can be very destructive.

If you want to come onto MY private property and start tearing into (80+ year old original) plaster walls and cutting into old-growth oak hardwood floors....well you are going to have to PAY for that :furious: if I am not found guilty. Plus pain and suffering (trust me...any old house owner knows what I am talking about....). Are taxpayers willing to fund this???

We have laws in this country against unlawful search and seizure and I for one am a fan. :twocents:

Which is why they obtained a search warrant.

plaidmom
10-20-2011, 10:57 PM
Which is why they obtained a search warrant.

Yeah, but I still wonder who pays for all of that repair work?

As a taxpayer? And an old-house owner??? It's not cheap. :D

belimom
10-20-2011, 10:57 PM
The house WAS roped off and treated as a crime scene for the entire first day or two. Much video to prove it.

You're right and I do remember that. But I mean -- go through it like they did yesterday, kwim? Like, really go through it. I know it's not practical or feasible each and every time. But when I rule the world, I'll make it so... :D

jjenny
10-20-2011, 10:58 PM
I think some states only make you report the income of the mother or "family unit" so if the parents are not married then if the father works they may not take his income into account, (even though they should if he is contributing financially to the child!) so legally the mother is a "single parent" without a marriage license.

Have no clue about MO though.

JMO

But that would not apply to DB since she actually has a legal husband.

CarrieBean
10-20-2011, 11:09 PM
Yeah, but I still wonder who pays for all of that repair work?

As a taxpayer? And an old-house owner??? It's not cheap. :D

I don't know who pays for it and it sucks. But it doesn't suck as much as a child going missing.

shay0903
10-20-2011, 11:10 PM
Yeah but as a parent if my child was taken and I wanted answers I would be thinking differently in that I WOULD NOT CARE what it cost to help find my child. You could tear my whole house in shreds (except anything of my childs of course) to find the answers. If I knew I had nothing to do with it and the perp came in the home and thats the only place to get evidence then by all means take every inch of my home to the lab to help bring my baby back. Those things dont matter and are only material things when it comes to getting your baby back!! JMO!! I feel the parents shouldn't be mad over their property being damamged to aid in this process. I'd probably be taking my own pictures, not allowing anyone in BUT LE and BEGGING them to check all this. Me, being the outspoken type Id be going to the judge begging for a search warrant to be issued to make them complete an extensive evidence search like this one if it didnt get done! How else can you catch a kidnapper except by finding what he left behind? Sorry so long but .... Id be the one pushing and pushing LE even when they was doing all they could possibly do if it was my child!

norest4thewicked
10-20-2011, 11:12 PM
Yeah but as a parent if my child was taken and I wanted answers I would be thinking differently in that I WOULD NOT CARE what it cost to help find my child. You could tear my whole house in shreds (except anything of my childs of course) to find the answers. If I knew I had nothing to do with it and the perp came in the home and thats the only place to get evidence then by all means take every inch of my home to the lab to help bring my baby back. Those things dont matter and are only material things when it comes to getting your baby back!! JMO!! I feel the parents shouldn't be mad over their property being damamged to aid in this process. I'd probably be taking my own pictures, not allowing anyone in BUT LE and BEGGING them to check all this. Me, being the outspoken type Id be going to the judge begging for a search warrant to be issued to make them complete an extensive evidence search like this one if it didnt get done! How else can you catch a kidnapper except by finding what he left behind? Sorry so long but .... Id be the one pushing and pushing LE even when they was doing all they could possibly do if it was my child!

And that is something you don't see DB doing.

CarrieBean
10-20-2011, 11:35 PM
And that is something you don't see DB doing.

But DB is not her.

Not so sure I would think of running to a judge to beg for a search warrant at a time like this. That's LE's job. I honestly don't know how I would react if someone stole my baby from my home and at the same time having the world accusing me of being responsible when I'm innocent.

I don't know that she's innocent, but I'm not ready to deem her guilty because she drinks/drank, is an attention hound, or may be a little loopy.

pferrin
10-20-2011, 11:42 PM
You're right and I do remember that. But I mean -- go through it like they did yesterday, kwim? Like, really go through it. I know it's not practical or feasible each and every time. But when I rule the world, I'll make it so... :D

Belimom..I am voting for your ruling..more evidence might be retrieved.

katydid23
10-20-2011, 11:53 PM
Seems kind of simple, but now no way do I believe some intruder came in the house and grabbed the baby and 3 cell phones with no pacifier, blanket, bottle..nothing else....no way.

Maybe they did not want to have anything incrimi9nating from inside the home. Maybe they had their own baby stuff so they could try and hide her identity. If she is still alive and being cared for she is probably being dressed in blue overalls and baseball caps, and may have light brown hair.

MamaK
10-20-2011, 11:55 PM
But that would not apply to DB since she actually has a legal husband.

I'm trying to find the "rules" for family size for WIC. A friend of mine works over at WIC but she's in Oklahoma so would the rules be the same? Here is the link for MO WIC income guidelines: http://health.mo.gov/living/families/wic/eligibility_income.php

Average salary for electricians in KC is $43,000 per year (http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-electrician/l-kansas+city,+mo), which does meet the WIC standard for a family of 5. Wasn't it stated in the very beginning when Lisa was missing, in an article, that DB receives around $200 or something like that per month in child support? I don't remember off the top of my head but I thought I remember seeing that because someone had mentioned that she received a "pittance in child support." Regardless, she could receive up to around $400 a month in child support and still qualify for WIC if JI makes the average.

CarrieBean
10-20-2011, 11:55 PM
Maybe they did not want to have anything incrimi9nating from inside the home. Maybe they had their own baby stuff so they could try and hide her identity. If she is still alive and being cared for she is probably being dressed in blue overalls and baseball caps, and may have light brown hair.

Yes. Someone who wants a baby and plans to steal a baby would be prepared, I would think.

CarrieBean
10-20-2011, 11:58 PM
I'm trying to find the "rules" for family size for WIC. A friend of mine works over at WIC but she's in Oklahoma so would the rules be the same? Here is the link for MO WIC income guidelines: http://health.mo.gov/living/families/wic/eligibility_income.php

Average salary for electricians in KC is $43,000 per year (http://www.simplyhired.com/a/salary/search/q-electrician/l-kansas+city,+mo), which does meet the WIC standard for a family of 5. Wasn't it stated in the very beginning when Lisa was missing, in an article, that DB receives around $200 or something like that per month in child support? I don't remember off the top of my head but I thought I remember seeing that because someone had mentioned that she received a "pittance in child support." Regardless, she could receive up to around $400 a month in child support and still qualify for WIC if JI makes the average.

Been wondering for a while. What does WIC stand for? I was thinking Women In Crisis (that's what it is around here) at first but it doesn't seem to fit.

Never mind, lol. Should have done a quick search. Women, Infants and Children?

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 12:00 AM
But DB is not her.

Not so sure I would think of running to a judge to beg for a search warrant at a time like this. That's LE's job. I honestly don't know how I would react if someone stole my baby from my home and at the same time having the world accusing me of being responsible when I'm innocent.

I don't know that she's innocent, but I'm not ready to deem her guilty because she drinks/drank, is an attention hound, or may be a little loopy.

Understandable...and I was one of her supporters in the beginning. I just feel she's guilty now.

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 12:01 AM
Just like JBR's family...

Exactly who came to mind for me too belimom.

imo

AlmostGone
10-21-2011, 12:03 AM
WIC stands for woman, infants and children

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 12:03 AM
I know I would. They can be very destructive.

If you want to come onto MY private property and start tearing into (80+ year old original) plaster walls and cutting into old-growth oak hardwood floors....well you are going to have to PAY for that :furious: if I am not found guilty. Plus pain and suffering (trust me...any old house owner knows what I am talking about....). Are taxpayers willing to fund this???

We have laws in this country against unlawful search and seizure and I for one am a fan. :twocents:

Wouldn't that be the least of your worries if your baby was missing?

Rallihanna
10-21-2011, 12:04 AM
WIC is Women, Infants, and Children

SmoothOperator
10-21-2011, 12:04 AM
And that's exactly what these parents are allowing and have given their full consent for LE to come and go as much and as often as they like..Parents have willingly given LE unfettered access to their home, property, vehicles and everything they own within those areas.. INCLUDING ALL THREE OF ALL OF THEIR CHILDREN's BELONGINGS, CLOTHES, AND KEEPSAKES!!

These parents gave willing consent allowing for both of their 6 and 8 yr old boys to be thoroughly interviewed and questioned by LE and those appointed by LE whose profession it is to speak and question children who may have beared witness to pretty horrific stuff.. These people have already questioned their children. Freely, willingly, allowing this to be done!! This is continued to be lied about and false information spread saying otherwise!! Deb was asked in the media blitz WOULD THEY ALLOW THEIR SONS TO BE QUESTIONED AGAIN?? AS IN MORE THAN ONCE.. THEY SAID NO, THEIR BOYS HAVE BEEN QUESTIONED/INTERVIEWED AND LE HAS THEIR FULL ACCOUNTS OF WHAT THE EVENTS OF THAT NIGHT WERE!!

So here's the important thing to that.. From that question and the answer the parents gave it has now been twisted into LE is seeking these children out to RE-QUESTION.. when there is not one statement LE has made requesting TO REQUESTION THE BOYS AGAIN!! this has been blown up by the media and further fueled by incorrect, misinformation being regurgitated repeatedly!!*

THESE CHILDREN HAVE BEEN INTERVIEWED.. THE PARENTS WILLINGLY GAVE THEIR PERMISSION AND ALLOWED THIS.. THERE HAS NOT BEEN A STATEMENT FROM POLICE STATING THEY WISH TO REQUESTION THIS 6 and 8 yr old boys!! This is all bunk simply derived from a question asked and answered and that has been twisted into more cruel, false, outright lies and misconceptions that these parents aren't allowing their children to be interviewed AT ALL PERIOD!! many are under the impression these boys have not even been questioned by LE.. They have and they did so with the parents full permission.. And that's the end of these two innocent little boy's involvement!! LE has both of these little boys Accts of that night on record and the rest is absolute false bs that continues to be circulated as truth.. It's angering IMO to see the twisting of the truth into something that no longer is even recognizable as the truth.. It's angering and it's sad!!

And as for Jeremy supposedly having made a comment that he requested to be present with his baby's mother in further questioning.. "if" this infact is true I can say this with much confidence.. If this were I in this nightmare along with my husband and our child had been abducted from our home and we are cooperating to the absolutely best of our ability allowing anything and everything they are asking of us and in that soon thereafter the traumatic event of my child being stolen from my home, out of her bed.. And I was taken, separated and isolated from ANYONE AND FOR MORE THAN 10 HOURS I WAS BERATED AND DEMEANED IN EVERY WAY U COULD IMAGINE!!! being yelled at for hour upon hour upon hour what a bad, POS MOM I AM, THAT IM A MURDERER AMD MURDERED MY BABY IN COLD BLOOD AND THEN BURNED HER IN GARBAGE CAN!!! that I am going to be arrested for murdering her..THe room full of cops alll yelling these horrors at me telling me they are going to arrest me for killing my baby!! Then they throw before me burned up baby clothes claiming I thru my child in a fire in a garbage can that they've got the proof and I'm going to prison for the rest of my life for murdering my baby!!! Then put before Doppler pings of "my"cell phone saying that I hid them they have proof of it!! I am going to be charged with murder in the first for my daughters death and that I might As well ATLEAST save my fam added pain and give up where I put her burned little body!!!

All of these things and more for well over 10 hours AND I KNOW MYSELF NOR MY HUSBAND HAS HARMED MY BABY AND THAT MY PRECIOUS BABY IS OUT THERE WITH SOME MONSTER AND I DONT KNOW IF SHE'S EVEN ALIVE!!! I can promise you without a doubt that my
Husband/fiancé/significant other(whatever you wanna call the relationship btwn Deb and Jeremy as that seems to be up for debate as well).. If my husband were in the position Jeremy is in.. my husband without a doubt would be demanding from there on out that he be with me when I was Interviewed!! He would not allow that bs to continue when he knew that I had not harmed a hair on my Childs head and we were devastated that our child has been abducted!!

So, these parents have willing allowed for themselves, their remaining children, and every possession of theirs or their children's has been willingly allowed unfettered access.. But this isn't what's reported on.. This isn't what's circulated around and run amuk throughout the rumor mills.. It's lies, misconstrued statements, twisted truths that are so blown out of proportion and distorted to where it's nothing even remotely resembling the truth!! And a precious baby named Lisa is out there somewhere lost in all of this.. It's beyond tragic !

jjenny
10-21-2011, 12:08 AM
Not only DB said she isn't allowing LE to re-interview the two boys, she said she herself isn't going to talk to them about the noises they heard. I find that particularly bizarre. It's her baby that is missing after all. She admits she was drunk and her recollection appears to be fuzzy (to say the least). The two boys were not drinking. One would think under these circumstances a mother would be talking and talking to the 6 and 8 year old to figure out what they heard/seen. But in this case one would be wrong.

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 12:09 AM
And that's exactly what these parents are allowing and have given their full consent for LE to come and go as much and as often as they like..Parents have willingly given LE unfettered access to their home, property, vehicles and everything they own within those areas.. INCLUDING ALL THREE OF ALL OF THEIR CHILDREN's BELONGINGS, CLOTHES, AND KEEPSAKES!!

These parents gave willing consent allowing for both of their 6 and 8 yr old boys to be thoroughly interviewed and questioned by LE and those appointed by LE whose profession it is to speak and question children who may have beared witness to pretty horrific stuff.. These people have already questioned their children. Freely, willingly, allowing this to be done!! This is continued to be lied about and false information spread saying otherwise!! Deb was asked in the media blitz WOULD THEY ALLOW THEIR SONS TO BE QUESTIONED AGAIN?? AS IN MORE THAN ONCE.. THEY SAID NO, THEIR BOYS HAVE BEEN QUESTIONED/INTERVIEWED AND LE HAS THEIR FULL ACCOUNTS OF WHAT THE EVENTS OF THAT NIGHT WERE!!

So here's the important thing to that.. From that question and the answer the parents gave it has now been twisted into LE is seeking these children out to RE-QUESTION.. when there is not one statement LE has made requesting TO REQUESTION THE BOYS AGAIN!! this has been blown up by the media and further fueled by incorrect, misinformation being regurgitated repeatedly!!*

THESE CHILDREN HAVE BEEN INTERVIEWED.. THE PARENTS WILLINGLY GAVE THEIR PERMISSION AND ALLOWED THIS.. THERE HAS NOT BEEN A STATEMENT FROM POLICE STATING THEY WISH TO REQUESTION THIS 6 and 8 yr old boys!! This is all bunk simply derived from a question asked and answered and that has been twisted into more cruel, false, outright lies and misconceptions that these parents aren't allowing their children to be interviewed AT ALL PERIOD!! many are under the impression these boys have not even been questioned by LE.. They have and they did so with the parents full permission.. And that's the end of these two innocent little boy's involvement!! LE has both of these little boys Accts of that night on record and the rest is absolute false bs that continues to be circulated as truth.. It's angering IMO to see the twisting of the truth into something that no longer is even recognizable as the truth.. It's angering and it's sad!!

And as for Jeremy supposedly having made a comment that he requested to be present with his wife in further questioning.. "if" this infact is true I can say this with much confidence.. If this were I in this nightmare along with my husband and our child had been abducted from our home and we are cooperating to the absolutely best of our ability allowing anything and everything they are asking of us and in that soon thereafter the traumatic event of my child being stolen from my home, out of her bed.. And I was taken, separated and isolated from ANYONE AND FOR MORE THAN 10 HOURS I WAS BERATED AND DEMEANED IN EVERY WAY U COULD IMAGINE!!! being yelled at for hour upon hour upon hour what a bad, POS MOM I AM, THAT IM A MURDERER AMD MURDERED MY BABY IN COLD BLOOD AND THEN BURNED HER IN GARBAGE CAN!!! that I am going to be arrested for murdering her..THe room full of cops alll yelling these horrors at me telling me they are going to arrest me for killing my baby!! Then they throw before me burned up baby clothes claiming I thru my child in a fire in a garbage can that they've got the proof and I'm going to prison for the rest of my life for murdering my baby!!! Then put before Doppler pings of "my"cell phone saying that I hid them they have proof of it!! I am going to be charged with murder in the first for my daughters death and that I might As well ATLEAST save my fam added pain and give up where I put her burned little body!!!

All of these things and more for well over 10 hours AND I KNOW MYSELF NOR MY HUSBAND HAS HARMED MY BABY AND THAT MY PRECIOUS BABY IS OUT THERE WITH SOME MONSTER AND I DONT KNOW IF SHE'S EVEN ALIVE!!! I can promise you without a doubt that my
Husband/fiancé/significant other(whatever you wanna call the relationship btwn Deb and Jeremy as that seems to be up for debate as well).. If my husband were in the position Jeremy is in.. my husband without a doubt would be demanding from there on out that he be with me when I was Interviewed!! He would not allow that bs to continue when he knew that I had not harmed a hair on my Childs head and we were devastated that our child has been abducted!!

So, these parents have willing allowed for themselves, their remaining children, and every possession of theirs or their children's has been willingly allowed unfettered access.. But this isn't what's reported on.. This isn't what's circulated around and run amuk throughout the rumor mills.. It's lies, misconstrued statements, twisted truths that are so blown out of proportion and distorted to where it's nothing even remotely resembling the truth!! And a precious baby named Lisa is out there somewhere lost in all of this.. It's beyond tragic !

Respectfully...the parents themselves in their interviews have contradicted part of what you have said above. There has been not one single public statement that they gave LE complete access to their house whenever and however they wanted. DB and JI said themselves that they do not want their children re-interviewed. It isn't the media giving us this information, it's the parents.

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 12:11 AM
And, also, NO ONE knows what LE said to DB in the interviews except those who were there. DB said that she was "shown" burnt clothes, not that they were "baby clothes" and they were not thrown in front of her.

sarx
10-21-2011, 12:15 AM
Realized I'm off topic with my post so deleting. This is about the search warrants. Sorry!

Lera213
10-21-2011, 12:18 AM
Night crew reporting for duty

jjenny
10-21-2011, 12:19 AM
And now so much time has passed that there is no way kids that age could be sure of the details, right down to what day they last saw their little sister.

Elizabeth Smart's sister was only 9, but she was able to come up with the correct suspect months later, so I am not so sure.

CarrieBean
10-21-2011, 12:19 AM
And that's exactly what these parents are allowing and have given their full consent for LE to come and go as much and as often as they like..Parents have willingly given LE unfettered access to their home, property, vehicles and everything they own within those areas.. INCLUDING ALL THREE OF ALL OF THEIR CHILDREN's BELONGINGS, CLOTHES, AND KEEPSAKES!!

These parents gave willing consent allowing for both of their 6 and 8 yr old boys to be thoroughly interviewed and questioned by LE and those appointed by LE whose profession it is to speak and question children who may have beared witness to pretty horrific stuff.. These people have already questioned their children. Freely, willingly, allowing this to be done!! This is continued to be lied about and false information spread saying otherwise!! Deb was asked in the media blitz WOULD THEY ALLOW THEIR SONS TO BE QUESTIONED AGAIN?? AS IN MORE THAN ONCE.. THEY SAID NO, THEIR BOYS HAVE BEEN QUESTIONED/INTERVIEWED AND LE HAS THEIR FULL ACCOUNTS OF WHAT THE EVENTS OF THAT NIGHT WERE!!

So here's the important thing to that.. From that question and the answer the parents gave it has now been twisted into LE is seeking these children out to RE-QUESTION.. when there is not one statement LE has made requesting TO REQUESTION THE BOYS AGAIN!! this has been blown up by the media and further fueled by incorrect, misinformation being regurgitated repeatedly!!*

THESE CHILDREN HAVE BEEN INTERVIEWED.. THE PARENTS WILLINGLY GAVE THEIR PERMISSION AND ALLOWED THIS.. THERE HAS NOT BEEN A STATEMENT FROM POLICE STATING THEY WISH TO REQUESTION THIS 6 and 8 yr old boys!! This is all bunk simply derived from a question asked and answered and that has been twisted into more cruel, false, outright lies and misconceptions that these parents aren't allowing their children to be interviewed AT ALL PERIOD!! many are under the impression these boys have not even been questioned by LE.. They have and they did so with the parents full permission.. And that's the end of these two innocent little boy's involvement!! LE has both of these little boys Accts of that night on record and the rest is absolute false bs that continues to be circulated as truth.. It's angering IMO to see the twisting of the truth into something that no longer is even recognizable as the truth.. It's angering and it's sad!!

And as for Jeremy supposedly having made a comment that he requested to be present with his baby's mother in further questioning.. "if" this infact is true I can say this with much confidence.. If this were I in this nightmare along with my husband and our child had been abducted from our home and we are cooperating to the absolutely best of our ability allowing anything and everything they are asking of us and in that soon thereafter the traumatic event of my child being stolen from my home, out of her bed.. And I was taken, separated and isolated from ANYONE AND FOR MORE THAN 10 HOURS I WAS BERATED AND DEMEANED IN EVERY WAY U COULD IMAGINE!!! being yelled at for hour upon hour upon hour what a bad, POS MOM I AM, THAT IM A MURDERER AMD MURDERED MY BABY IN COLD BLOOD AND THEN BURNED HER IN GARBAGE CAN!!! that I am going to be arrested for murdering her..THe room full of cops alll yelling these horrors at me telling me they are going to arrest me for killing my baby!! Then they throw before me burned up baby clothes claiming I thru my child in a fire in a garbage can that they've got the proof and I'm going to prison for the rest of my life for murdering my baby!!! Then put before Doppler pings of "my"cell phone saying that I hid them they have proof of it!! I am going to be charged with murder in the first for my daughters death and that I might As well ATLEAST save my fam added pain and give up where I put her burned little body!!!

All of these things and more for well over 10 hours AND I KNOW MYSELF NOR MY HUSBAND HAS HARMED MY BABY AND THAT MY PRECIOUS BABY IS OUT THERE WITH SOME MONSTER AND I DONT KNOW IF SHE'S EVEN ALIVE!!! I can promise you without a doubt that my
Husband/fiancé/significant other(whatever you wanna call the relationship btwn Deb and Jeremy as that seems to be up for debate as well).. If my husband were in the position Jeremy is in.. my husband without a doubt would be demanding from there on out that he be with me when I was Interviewed!! He would not allow that bs to continue when he knew that I had not harmed a hair on my Childs head and we were devastated that our child has been abducted!!

So, these parents have willing allowed for themselves, their remaining children, and every possession of theirs or their children's has been willingly allowed unfettered access.. But this isn't what's reported on.. This isn't what's circulated around and run amuk throughout the rumor mills.. It's lies, misconstrued statements, twisted truths that are so blown out of proportion and distorted to where it's nothing even remotely resembling the truth!! And a precious baby named Lisa is out there somewhere lost in all of this.. It's beyond tragic !

Wow, I missed all of this. Was it said to happen like this when they were being questioned?

I'm guessing it was along these lines anyway.

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 12:20 AM
And now so much time has passed that there is no way kids that age could be sure of the details, right down to what day they last saw their little sister.

and wouldn't you think that you would use absolutely everything that you could imagine to help find your missing baby...including re-interviewing the other children, who heard noises?

jjenny
10-21-2011, 12:20 AM
and wouldn't you think that you would use absolutely everything that you could imagine to help find your missing baby...including re-interviewing the other children, who heard noises?

Supposedly heard noises, since the info we have about noises is hearsay.

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 12:21 AM
Wow, I missed all of this. Was it said to happen like this when they were being questioned?

I'm guessing it was along these lines anyway.

How would anyone know what happened unless you were there?

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 12:22 AM
When my kids were babies, we had so many pacifiers, I doubt I would know if one was missing. I used to find them under the crib, couch cushions etc. Maybe Lisa only had 1?

When one grandchild stayed with us recently, we found 6 pacifiers for 1 baby. So I know what you mean. :)

imo

AlmostGone
10-21-2011, 12:22 AM
Elizabeth Smart's sister was only 9, but she was able to come up with the correct suspect months later, so I am not so sure.


I really hope the children are seeing a crisis type specialist..

CarrieBean
10-21-2011, 12:23 AM
And, also, NO ONE knows what LE said to DB in the interviews except those who were there. DB said that she was "shown" burnt clothes, not that they were "baby clothes" and they were not thrown in front of her.

How do you think this may have happened?

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 12:23 AM
mitchweber Mitch Weber
The vehicle the parents of #lisairwin left in this morning around 11 just returned to the house on Walrond w/o parents pic.twitter.com/JtnroiJN

http://twitter.com/#!/mitchweber

This was 3 hours ago, but I didn't even know they left today.


Help me here curiousc, :) who was driving the car if the parents didn't return in it? tia

linajoy
10-21-2011, 12:27 AM
Help me here curiousc, :) who was driving the car if the parents didn't return in it? tia

The same lady that took them to the law firm individually yesterday. She must work for the law firm.:twocents:

curiousc
10-21-2011, 12:28 AM
Help me here curiousc, :) who was driving the car if the parents didn't return in it? tia

There was a pic in that tweet. Looks like some blonder haired lady was getting out of her vehicle....perhaps a family member.

So, where are the parents now? That's my question. LOL

CarrieBean
10-21-2011, 12:29 AM
How would anyone know what happened unless you were there?

Maybe I should have thrown "IMO" in there some where (my post was understandable, I'm sure). I suppose it's possible that LE coddled her over those 10 (or whatever) hours. Gently sat down some burnt clothing. Do you recognize these sweetie?

I doubt it. Investigations don't work that way. This LE agency is doing some public talking like I've never seen before.

who knew?
10-21-2011, 12:31 AM
Maybe I should have thrown "IMO" in there some where (my post was understandable, I'm sure). I suppose it's possible that LE coddled her over those 10 (or whatever) hours. Gently sat down some burnt clothing. Do you recognize these sweetie?

I doubt it. Investigations don't work that way. This LE agency is doing some public talking like I've never seen before.

I actually think they have been extremely closed lipped.

linajoy
10-21-2011, 12:31 AM
Maybe I should have thrown "IMO" in there some where (my post was understandable, I'm sure). I suppose it's possible that LE coddled her over those 10 (or whatever) hours. Gently sat down some burnt clothing. Do you recognize these sweetie?

I doubt it. Investigations don't work that way. This LE agency is doing some public talking like I've never seen before.

<modsnip> They have said virtually nothing the whole time.

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 12:32 AM
How do you think this may have happened?

The interview?

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 12:32 AM
And that's exactly what these parents are allowing and have given their full consent for LE to come and go as much and as often as they like..Parents have willingly given LE unfettered access to their home, property, vehicles and everything they own within those areas.. INCLUDING ALL THREE OF ALL OF THEIR CHILDREN's BELONGINGS, CLOTHES, AND KEEPSAKES!!


respectfully snipped :p

Not exactly true SO.:seeya: During one of LE's pressers- held by Capt. (Cutie) no less, the Capt himself said the parents did not allow them (LE) to continue searching the entire back yard. It is linked here and was one of the very first pressers. When this family stopped cooperating with LE, AFAIK, there were no more searches-at least for a few days.

FWIW, It was awfully convenient for the babies parents to claim they couldn't go back into the house because they were distraught/././././././././././././././././.especially after LE spent 16ish hours searching everything.

imo

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 12:33 AM
Realized I'm off topic with my post so deleting. This is about the search warrants. Sorry!

It's really easy to get off topic, isn't it? :)

MamaK
10-21-2011, 12:34 AM
I found a pre-screening tool for the FNS SNAP Program. http://www.snap-step1.usda.gov/fns/

I had to make quite a few assumptions. I plugged in 5 fake names and put in the ages of all involved. Well, I put in 28 for JI because I don't remember how old he is but that shouldn't make a difference. I used $43,000 as the annual salary for earned income, $250/ month for unearned income in child support. I used $850/ month for the mortgage (including insurance and taxes.) InDaMiddle, does that sound about right for that area? I did a mortgage calculator with a mortage of $110,000 but I don't know if JI had a downpayment or if he has refinanced, taken out a 2nd mortgage, etc... The short of it is, with my inputs, it showed that they would not be eligible for food stamps. lol

So, the short of it is, there is a high probability that they qualify for WIC but not for food stamps. I like solving easy little mysteries. :woohoo: :great:

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 12:35 AM
Not only DB said she isn't allowing LE to re-interview the two boys, she said she herself isn't going to talk to them about the noises they heard. I find that particularly bizarre. It's her baby that is missing after all. She admits she was drunk and her recollection appears to be fuzzy (to say the least). The two boys were not drinking. One would think under these circumstances a mother would be talking and talking to the 6 and 8 year old to figure out what they heard/seen. But in this case one would be wrong.

Daum sure is bizarre. Just one more thing that points to the mother's involvement. If a normal person's baby was missing, IMO they'd beg their children to talk to LE, a therapist, any professional who could help the boys recall information about that night.
NOO this mom announces in front of God and everybody that she was drunk that night and blacked out and other such garbage.....:banghead:...............Not buying it for a second.

imo

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 12:35 AM
Supposedly heard noises, since the info we have about noises is hearsay.

said by db in her interview.

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 12:37 AM
Respectfully...the parents themselves in their interviews have contradicted part of what you have said above. There has been not one single public statement that they gave LE complete access to their house whenever and however they wanted. DB and JI said themselves that they do not want their children re-interviewed. It isn't the media giving us this information, it's the parents.

Everytime I see your name, I start singing a song with those fabulous words.

And to that I'll add, I agree with what you said.

imo

CarrieBean
10-21-2011, 12:38 AM
<modsnip> They have said virtually nothing the whole time.

They have come out publicly saying the parents are refusing to cooperate. The parents have never stopped cooperating, they needed a break after hours of being interrogated and accused and are still cooperating.

LE was/is using the media/public to put pressure on these people without a bit of a reason why.

kantoo
10-21-2011, 12:38 AM
respectfully snipped :p

Not exactly true SO.:seeya: During one of LE's pressers- held by Capt. (Cutie) no less, the Capt himself said the parents did not allow them (LE) to continue searching the entire back yard. It is linked here and was one of the very first pressers. When this family stopped cooperating with LE, AFAIK, there were no more searches-at least for a few days.

FWIW, It was awfully convenient for the babies parents to claim they couldn't go back into the house because they were distraught/././././././././././././././././.especially after LE spent 16ish hours searching everything.

imo

i have looked and relooked at early interviews. i can't find where the parents did not allow LE to keep searching the back yard. if anyone can help this doofus out, please put me out of my misery!

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 12:38 AM
:seeya:
The same lady that took them to the law firm individually yesterday. She must work for the law firm.:twocents:

Hi and thank you linajoy!

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 12:39 AM
There was a pic in that tweet. Looks like some blonder haired lady was getting out of her vehicle....perhaps a family member.

So, where are the parents now? That's my question. LOL

Thanks darlin. I want to know where the parents went and if that's where they are now.......or not. :)

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 12:40 AM
They have come out publicly saying the parents are refusing to cooperate. The parents have never stopped cooperating, they needed a break after hours of being interrogated and accused and are still cooperating.

LE was/is using the media/public to put pressure on these people without a bit of a reason why.

I think that these people are putting the pressure on themselves by continuing to change their story. The truth never changes.

Abby Normal
10-21-2011, 12:42 AM
Respectfully...the parents themselves in their interviews have contradicted part of what you have said above. There has been not one single public statement that they gave LE complete access to their house whenever and however they wanted. DB and JI said themselves that they do not want their children re-interviewed. It isn't the media giving us this information, it's the parents.

LE has been at their house searching just about every day... always with permission. Do they need a public statement when they is public evidence?

I agree that it's tragic that parents can be convicted in public opinion before evidence is found to support the suspicion. That's not how our justice system works. It's not a witch hunt. We can't throw them in a lake and see if they sink or float. That was an appalling practice, and damning a family without evidence is as well.

Now, if there is evidence... I'm all for the lake option.

who knew?
10-21-2011, 12:42 AM
They have come out publicly saying the parents are refusing to cooperate. The parents have never stopped cooperating, they needed a break after hours of being interrogated and accused and are still cooperating.

LE was/is using the media/public to put pressure on these people without a bit of a reason why.

The only info I have heard from LE is that the parents weren't cooperating. I believe that has been proven by the parents' actions and their comments. This LE agency has been extremely professional - unfortunately for those of us who want info, but fortunate for those who are trying to find the truth.

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 12:43 AM
i have looked and relooked at early interviews. i can't find where the parents did not allow LE to keep searching the back yard. if anyone can help this doofus out, please put me out of my misery!

I can only say kantoo :seeya: that the presser was held outside very early on. Capt. mentions the back yard search being not allowed by the parents. It's the same interview where the Capt. says the cars were searched and dogs were used. I watched it with my own eyes.


I will try to find it for you.

imo

Lera213
10-21-2011, 12:43 AM
I found a pre-screening tool for the FNS SNAP Program. http://www.snap-step1.usda.gov/fns/

I had to make quite a few assumptions. I plugged in 5 fake names and put in the ages of all involved. Well, I put in 28 for JI because I don't remember how old he is but that shouldn't make a difference. I used $43,000 as the annual salary for earned income, $250/ month for unearned income in child support. I used $850/ month for the mortgage (including insurance and taxes.) InDaMiddle, does that sound about right for that area? I did a mortgage calculator with a mortage of $110,000 but I don't know if JI had a downpayment or if he has refinanced, taken out a 2nd mortgage, etc... The short of it is, with my inputs, it showed that they would not be eligible for food stamps. lol

So, the short of it is, there is a high probability that they qualify for WIC but not for food stamps. I like solving easy little mysteries. :woohoo: :great:You are forgetting that she isn't married to JI. She could have put down that she has to pay rent to JI, Light bill could be in her name, along with other things. She probably put on the application that it read like JI was her landlord not mate

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 12:44 AM
LE has been at their house searching just about every day... always with permission. Do they need a public statement when they is public evidence?

I agree that it's tragic that parents can be convicted in public opinion before evidence is found to support the suspicion. That's not how our justice system works. It's not a witch hunt. We can't throw them in a lake and see if they sink or float. That was an appalling practice, and damning a family without evidence is as well.

Now, if there is evidence... I'm all for the lake option.

well, I do know that they needed a search warrant to go in last night and, as I said before, their own words are what made me change from completely supporting the parents to now thinking they are guilty. the media didn't change my opinion, their words did.

ynotdivein
10-21-2011, 12:45 AM
Please folks, remember to disagree with the post, not with the poster.

Let's say that Ynot posts on this thread saying "The sky was purple when they dug around the large shed in the backyard."

There is a big difference between responding, "Are you kidding me?" versus responding, "I disagree with the idea that the sky was purple at that time, and here's why."

Where this post falls is random.

:tyou: all for the dedication you are bringing to finding little Lisa!

CarrieBean
10-21-2011, 12:45 AM
I think that these people are putting the pressure on themselves by continuing to change their story. The truth never changes.

Of course the truth never changes, but when your going through something so traumatic who could ever get every little detail spot on? Who's mind would be clear and able to remember every little detail in a situation like this?

Once again I'll state that I am on the fence. I don't believe these parents are innocent or guilty at this time. I'd just like to see baby Lisa found in whatever condition she is in.

And like I have said, I have no idea how I would react, but I'm quite sure my mind would be a jumbled mess.

KCMommie
10-21-2011, 12:45 AM
Not only DB said she isn't allowing LE to re-interview the two boys, she said she herself isn't going to talk to them about the noises they heard. I find that particularly bizarre. It's her baby that is missing after all. She admits she was drunk and her recollection appears to be fuzzy (to say the least). The two boys were not drinking. One would think under these circumstances a mother would be talking and talking to the 6 and 8 year old to figure out what they heard/seen. But in this case one would be wrong.

I could not agree with you more!

While I get there are cases that have been misconstrued. Statistically, it almost as rare as the boogieman walking in our houses and taking our children with no evidence or lead! Obviously, with the media attention here... that did seem to be a problem. So WHY would a MOTHER, A GOOD MOTHER, not want the HIGHLY TRAINED, but very competent PROFESSIONALS she NEEDS TO RELY ON that have THE BEST chance at locating HER MISSING CHILD, HER DAUGHTER to seek out, and follow up in the case?

I always find it interesting when someone has a fear of being arrested if they haven't done anything wrong to be arrested for...

Neglect and Child Endangerment is certainly better than a murder conviction. Reasonable doubt worked in the Anthony case...Even worse... never seeing your child again. IMVHO At what point does DB not understand the public can be much more forgiving of a horrible consequence of poor decision making skill in parenting, rather than someone who acts in manners that inhibit/interfere in the ability to help LE locate her daughter alive?

Unless I am mistaken, DB never even really talked to local media... she went straight to the top?

MyBelle
10-21-2011, 12:46 AM
And that's exactly what these parents are allowing and have given their full consent for LE to come and go as much and as often as they like..Parents have willingly given LE unfettered access to their home, property, vehicles and everything they own within those areas.. INCLUDING ALL THREE OF ALL OF THEIR CHILDREN's BELONGINGS, CLOTHES, AND KEEPSAKES!!

These parents gave willing consent allowing for both of their 6 and 8 yr old boys to be thoroughly interviewed and questioned by LE and those appointed by LE whose profession it is to speak and question children who may have beared witness to pretty horrific stuff.. These people have already questioned their children. Freely, willingly, allowing this to be done!! This is continued to be lied about and false information spread saying otherwise!! Deb was asked in the media blitz WOULD THEY ALLOW THEIR SONS TO BE QUESTIONED AGAIN?? AS IN MORE THAN ONCE.. THEY SAID NO, THEIR BOYS HAVE BEEN QUESTIONED/INTERVIEWED AND LE HAS THEIR FULL ACCOUNTS OF WHAT THE EVENTS OF THAT NIGHT WERE!!

So here's the important thing to that.. From that question and the answer the parents gave it has now been twisted into LE is seeking these children out to RE-QUESTION.. when there is not one statement LE has made requesting TO REQUESTION THE BOYS AGAIN!! this has been blown up by the media and further fueled by incorrect, misinformation being regurgitated repeatedly!!*

THESE CHILDREN HAVE BEEN INTERVIEWED.. THE PARENTS WILLINGLY GAVE THEIR PERMISSION AND ALLOWED THIS.. THERE HAS NOT BEEN A STATEMENT FROM POLICE STATING THEY WISH TO REQUESTION THIS 6 and 8 yr old boys!! This is all bunk simply derived from a question asked and answered and that has been twisted into more cruel, false, outright lies and misconceptions that these parents aren't allowing their children to be interviewed AT ALL PERIOD!! many are under the impression these boys have not even been questioned by LE.. They have and they did so with the parents full permission.. And that's the end of these two innocent little boy's involvement!! LE has both of these little boys Accts of that night on record and the rest is absolute false bs that continues to be circulated as truth.. It's angering IMO to see the twisting of the truth into something that no longer is even recognizable as the truth.. It's angering and it's sad!!

And as for Jeremy supposedly having made a comment that he requested to be present with his baby's mother in further questioning.. "if" this infact is true I can say this with much confidence.. If this were I in this nightmare along with my husband and our child had been abducted from our home and we are cooperating to the absolutely best of our ability allowing anything and everything they are asking of us and in that soon thereafter the traumatic event of my child being stolen from my home, out of her bed.. And I was taken, separated and isolated from ANYONE AND FOR MORE THAN 10 HOURS I WAS BERATED AND DEMEANED IN EVERY WAY U COULD IMAGINE!!! being yelled at for hour upon hour upon hour what a bad, POS MOM I AM, THAT IM A MURDERER AMD MURDERED MY BABY IN COLD BLOOD AND THEN BURNED HER IN GARBAGE CAN!!! that I am going to be arrested for murdering her..THe room full of cops alll yelling these horrors at me telling me they are going to arrest me for killing my baby!! Then they throw before me burned up baby clothes claiming I thru my child in a fire in a garbage can that they've got the proof and I'm going to prison for the rest of my life for murdering my baby!!! Then put before Doppler pings of "my"cell phone saying that I hid them they have proof of it!! I am going to be charged with murder in the first for my daughters death and that I might As well ATLEAST save my fam added pain and give up where I put her burned little body!!!

All of these things and more for well over 10 hours AND I KNOW MYSELF NOR MY HUSBAND HAS HARMED MY BABY AND THAT MY PRECIOUS BABY IS OUT THERE WITH SOME MONSTER AND I DONT KNOW IF SHE'S EVEN ALIVE!!! I can promise you without a doubt that my
Husband/fiancé/significant other(whatever you wanna call the relationship btwn Deb and Jeremy as that seems to be up for debate as well).. If my husband were in the position Jeremy is in.. my husband without a doubt would be demanding from there on out that he be with me when I was Interviewed!! He would not allow that bs to continue when he knew that I had not harmed a hair on my Childs head and we were devastated that our child has been abducted!!

So, these parents have willing allowed for themselves, their remaining children, and every possession of theirs or their children's has been willingly allowed unfettered access.. But this isn't what's reported on.. This isn't what's circulated around and run amuk throughout the rumor mills.. It's lies, misconstrued statements, twisted truths that are so blown out of proportion and distorted to where it's nothing even remotely resembling the truth!! And a precious baby named Lisa is out there somewhere lost in all of this.. It's beyond tragic !

I really like to use the word "unfettered" too because it is a neat word but we, the public, haven't been told what went on in interviews nor do we know that the parents have given their unfettered access to anything at all. A Judge decided there was probable cause to give LE, including the FBI, unfettered access to their house and to keep the parents away from it during the search and I think he had his Judge's hat on when he did so.

Lisa is missing and for that, neither the media nor LE is to blame. Of that, I am sure. I want her found and the person(s) responsible held accountable. I think everyone here, the media and LE is on board with that goal.

JMO

who knew?
10-21-2011, 12:46 AM
well, I do know that they needed a search warrant to go in last night and, as I said before, their own words are what made me change from completely supporting the parents to now thinking they are guilty. the media didn't change my opinion, their words did.

Agreed...

Lera213
10-21-2011, 12:46 AM
The only reported income she would have that I can see is her child support.

jjenny
10-21-2011, 12:48 AM
Of course the truth never changes, but when your going through something so traumatic who could ever get every little detail spot on? Who's mind would be clear and able to remember every little detail in a situation like this?

Once again I'll state that I am on the fence. I don't believe these parents are innocent or guilty at this time. I'd just like to see baby Lisa found in whatever condition she is in.

And like I have said, I have no idea how I would react, but I'm quite sure my mind would be a jumbled mess.

Checking on the baby at 10:30 pm or not isn't exactly a little detail.

CarrieBean
10-21-2011, 12:48 AM
The only info I have heard from LE is that the parents weren't cooperating. I believe that has been proven by the parents' actions and their comments. This LE agency has been extremely professional - unfortunately for those of us who want info, but fortunate for those who are trying to find the truth.

Been proven where and how? Because they don't want their kids, who are no doubt traumatized by this, being bombarded with strangers questioning them yet again?

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 12:49 AM
Of course the truth never changes, but when your going through something so traumatic who could ever get every little detail spot on? Who's mind would be clear and able to remember every little detail in a situation like this?

Once again I'll state that I am on the fence. I don't believe these parents are innocent or guilty at this time. I'd just like to see baby Lisa found in whatever condition she is in.

And like I have said, I have no idea how I would react, but I'm quite sure my mind would be a jumbled mess.

I totally agree with you about your mind being a jumbled mess, but to change a time 3 times is pretty significant to me. If she just didn't remember at all, that would have been understandable. But, to keep changing it, to me is deceit.

CarrieBean
10-21-2011, 12:50 AM
I could not agree with you more!

While I get there are cases that have been misconstrued. Statistically, it almost as rare as the boogieman walking in our houses and taking our children with no evidence or lead! Obviously, with the media attention here... that did seem to be a problem. So WHY would a MOTHER, A GOOD MOTHER, not want the HIGHLY TRAINED, but very competent PROFESSIONALS she NEEDS TO RELY ON that have THE BEST chance at locating HER MISSING CHILD, HER DAUGHTER to seek out, and follow up in the case?

I always find it interesting when someone has a fear of being arrested if they haven't done anything wrong to be arrested for...

Neglect and Child Endangerment is certainly better than a murder conviction. Reasonable doubt worked in the Anthony case...Even worse... never seeing your child again. IMVHO At what point does DB not understand the public can be much more forgiving of a horrible consequence of poor decision making skill in parenting, rather than someone who acts in manners that inhibit/interfere in the ability to help LE locate her daughter alive?

Unless I am mistaken, DB never even really talked to local media... she went straight to the top?

Sad thing, the highly trained professionals are not always competent.

LancelotLink
10-21-2011, 12:51 AM
Respectfully...the parents themselves in their interviews have contradicted part of what you have said above. There has been not one single public statement that they gave LE complete access to their house whenever and however they wanted. DB and JI said themselves that they do not want their children re-interviewed. It isn't the media giving us this information, it's the parents.

And, it would appear, from their own words, that as DB and JI change their story, they are now not allowing LE to re-interview any other occupants of the house on the night of the crime.

I have a huge problem with the parents and their lawyer(s) telling LE they have free access, that no search warrant was needed, but to me it is needed for collecting evidence and a court of law. And if i knew that SODDI, I would not be whining about a search warrant when it could lead to finding the nitwit who took my baby and his lawful prosecution...unless....

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 12:52 AM
I could not agree with you more!

While I get there are cases that have been misconstrued. Statistically, it almost as rare as the boogieman walking in our houses and taking our children with no evidence or lead! Obviously, with the media attention here... that did seem to be a problem. So WHY would a MOTHER, A GOOD MOTHER, not want the HIGHLY TRAINED, but very competent PROFESSIONALS she NEEDS TO RELY ON that have THE BEST chance at locating HER MISSING CHILD, HER DAUGHTER to seek out, and follow up in the case?

I always find it interesting when someone has a fear of being arrested if they haven't done anything wrong to be arrested for...

Neglect and Child Endangerment is certainly better than a murder conviction. Reasonable doubt worked in the Anthony case...Even worse... never seeing your child again. IMVHO At what point does DB not understand the public can be much more forgiving of a horrible consequence of poor decision making skill in parenting, rather than someone who acts in manners that inhibit/interfere in the ability to help LE locate her daughter alive?

Unless I am mistaken, DB never even really talked to local media... she went straight to the top?

very good post! I completely agree with every word you said!

MyBelle
10-21-2011, 12:52 AM
I found a pre-screening tool for the FNS SNAP Program. http://www.snap-step1.usda.gov/fns/

I had to make quite a few assumptions. I plugged in 5 fake names and put in the ages of all involved. Well, I put in 28 for JI because I don't remember how old he is but that shouldn't make a difference. I used $43,000 as the annual salary for earned income, $250/ month for unearned income in child support. I used $850/ month for the mortgage (including insurance and taxes.) InDaMiddle, does that sound about right for that area? I did a mortgage calculator with a mortage of $110,000 but I don't know if JI had a downpayment or if he has refinanced, taken out a 2nd mortgage, etc... The short of it is, with my inputs, it showed that they would not be eligible for food stamps. lol

So, the short of it is, there is a high probability that they qualify for WIC but not for food stamps. I like solving easy little mysteries. :woohoo: :great:

You are speculating on their income and expenses as am I. JI's income would not be considered in SNAP calculations because DB isn't married to him nor is he the father of her son and I'm betting she hasn't revealed to the State of MO that he lives there.

JMO

who knew?
10-21-2011, 12:54 AM
Sad thing, the highly trained professionals are not always competent.

Another sad thing - not all parents are competent. JMO If I were innocent, I would rather put my faith in the professionals in the hope of getting my daughter returned. If I were guilty of disposing of my child, I would be uncooperative and put up roadblocks.

CarrieBean
10-21-2011, 12:55 AM
Well, it's 1am and I can't keep my eyes open any longer. Hoping to wake up to some good news on Lisa...or any news at all really. I'd just like to see her found and the person responsible doing the perp walk, whether it's a parent(s) or someone else. Nighty night.

linajoy
10-21-2011, 12:55 AM
They have come out publicly saying the parents are refusing to cooperate. The parents have never stopped cooperating, they needed a break after hours of being interrogated and accused and are still cooperating.

LE was/is using the media/public to put pressure on these people without a bit of a reason why.

If your child has legitimately been taken from you, YOU NEVER TELL POLICE YOU NEED A BREAK FROM THEIR QUESTIONS

MyBelle
10-21-2011, 12:56 AM
They have come out publicly saying the parents are refusing to cooperate. The parents have never stopped cooperating, they needed a break after hours of being interrogated and accused and are still cooperating.

LE was/is using the media/public to put pressure on these people without a bit of a reason why.

I think if there is something that has been said that is putting pressure on the couple, it is her admission she was so drunk she may have blacked out. Can't blame that one on LE.

JMO

MamaK
10-21-2011, 12:56 AM
You are forgetting that she isn't married to JI. She could have put down that she has to pay rent to JI, Light bill could be in her name, along with other things. She probably put on the application that it read like JI was her landlord not mate

The rules state that they have to be considered a "household" because they live in the same residence. She could ask to be considered a separate household but she would have to prove that she is a separate household and pays for food separately.

So, if she did say she was paying rent, then she would have to claim her husband's income. He was a PFC 6 years ago. So, he's probably an E5 or E6 now. That might qualify for WIC but I'm pretty sure not for food stamps (based on what I know of the military.) Also, at some point, if anyone found out that she was living with JI, she could be prosecuted for welfare fraud. Of course, I don't know how well they enforce that, but it could happen. lol

Based on my neice's experience in Kansas, if DB applied for any kind of welfare by saying that she was separated from her hubby or whatever, they would make her jump through hoops... such as taking classes, etc. DB would be expected at some point to actually start working. My neice tried to sit on her butt and collect welfare and they kicked her off because she didn't take the classes she was supposed to.

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 12:57 AM
Back to the topic - how many here think that they found the phones in the house or on the property somewhere, ie buried in the yard, the shed, etc?

LancelotLink
10-21-2011, 12:57 AM
I could not agree with you more!

While I get there are cases that have been misconstrued. Statistically, it almost as rare as the boogieman walking in our houses and taking our children with no evidence or lead! Obviously, with the media attention here... that did seem to be a problem. So WHY would a MOTHER, A GOOD MOTHER, not want the HIGHLY TRAINED, but very competent PROFESSIONALS she NEEDS TO RELY ON that have THE BEST chance at locating HER MISSING CHILD, HER DAUGHTER to seek out, and follow up in the case?

I always find it interesting when someone has a fear of being arrested if they haven't done anything wrong to be arrested for...

Neglect and Child Endangerment is certainly better than a murder conviction. Reasonable doubt worked in the Anthony case...Even worse... never seeing your child again. IMVHO At what point does DB not understand the public can be much more forgiving of a horrible consequence of poor decision making skill in parenting, rather than someone who acts in manners that inhibit/interfere in the ability to help LE locate her daughter alive?

Unless I am mistaken, DB never even really talked to local media... she went straight to the top?

Yep! She and the fiance went on a Reasonable Doubt Tour.

Dewey2Me1MoThyme
10-21-2011, 12:58 AM
well, I do know that they needed a search warrant to go in last night and, as I said before, their own words are what made me change from completely supporting the parents to now thinking they are guilty. the media didn't change my opinion, their words did.

This is partially true, however, in order to keep family off the property they needed a SW, they did not state the family wouldn't give permission to search.

KCMommie
10-21-2011, 12:58 AM
Sad thing, the highly trained professionals are not always competent.

So True. None of us are 100% of the time, but I have a sneaking suspicion that these people have a much better chance at finding that child than a mother who can't remember what happened. IMVHO.

There are organizations that are HIGHLY skilled in dealing with such sensitive subjects with children. It may be that the Judge will need to assign a GAL in the case, or another advocate.

I was almost certain that that it was reported (besides out of DB's mouth in a televised interview) that LE wasn't being given access to the kiddos. I cannot say for certain that this was a statement made by LE.

LancelotLink
10-21-2011, 12:59 AM
Back to the topic - how many here think that they found the phones in the house or on the property somewhere, ie buried in the yard, the shed, etc?

The fact that the searches have circled around that house leads me to hope they found the phones. OR, they found them in the woods nearby on Oct. 7.

AngelWings444
10-21-2011, 01:00 AM
They have come out publicly saying the parents are refusing to cooperate. The parents have never stopped cooperating, they needed a break after hours of being interrogated and accused and are still cooperating.

LE was/is using the media/public to put pressure on these people without a bit of a reason why.

BBM # 1: According to LE, the parents are not answering specific questions they are asking. We have no idea what they have answered, and what they haven't answered. 13 hours of questioning is nothing when your child is missing. I tend to side with LE when one parent states publicly they were drunk and may have blacked out. Also, the kids heard noises but the parents refuse to allow a follow-up interview. In most cases, people are interviewed, then some info comes out and they are reinterviewed. Pieces of the puzzle come together with everyone cooperating, with one goal in mind, finding a missing child. I agree the Irwin's need an attorney, but even their attorney is stating that LE needs to put questions in writing. This doesn't seem like they are cooperating with LE. JMO!!

BBM # 2: How would you know this as factual and who cares!? There is a missing baby! They have reason to put pressure on everyone involved, especially the last person known to be with Baby Lisa, and admitted to being drunk, may have blacked out and reportedly failed a lie detector.

:twocents:

Lera213
10-21-2011, 01:00 AM
If your child has legitimately been taken from you, YOU NEVER TELL POLICE YOU NEED A BREAK FROM THEIR QUESTIONS

When they said this, this is what made me know that there was no kidnapping.

linajoy
10-21-2011, 01:00 AM
Back to the topic - how many here think that they found the phones in the house or on the property somewhere, ie buried in the yard, the shed, etc?

I have no evidence to support my statement, but I have a feeling they have had those cell phones for awhile. Just my opinion. I think they are looking for a body unfortunately:(

who knew?
10-21-2011, 01:02 AM
Back to the topic - how many here think that they found the phones in the house or on the property somewhere, ie buried in the yard, the shed, etc?

I hope they did. They must have found something they were looking for considering all the manpower and tools they used.

Lera213
10-21-2011, 01:03 AM
The rules state that they have to be considered a "household" because they live in the same residence. She could ask to be considered a separate household but she would have to prove that she is a separate household and pays for food separately.

So, if she did say she was paying rent, then she would have to claim her husband's income. He was a PFC 6 years ago. So, he's probably an E5 or E6 now. That might qualify for WIC but I'm pretty sure not for food stamps (based on what I know of the military.) Also, at some point, if anyone found out that she was living with JI, she could be prosecuted for welfare fraud. Of course, I don't know how well they enforce that, but it could happen. lol

Based on my neice's experience in Kansas, if DB applied for any kind of welfare by saying that she was separated from her hubby or whatever, they would make her jump through hoops... such as taking classes, etc. DB would be expected at some point to actually start working. My neice tried to sit on her butt and collect welfare and they kicked her off because she didn't take the classes she was supposed to.
I don't know the welfare system since I've never been on it. I did know many who were long ago before the welfare reform. I can tell you there are a lot of people that learn how to cheat the system. I'll leave it at that.

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 01:03 AM
I have no evidence to support my statement, but I have a feeling they have had those cell phones for awhile. Just my opinion. I think they are looking for a body unfortunately:(

The fact that they were on the roof searching the gutters made me think that the phones hadn't been found previously, but who knows? In any case, I sure hope they have been.

who knew?
10-21-2011, 01:07 AM
The fact that they were on the roof searching the gutters made me think that the phones hadn't been found previously, but who knows? In any case, I sure hope they have been.

I was trying to think what else they could be looking for in the gutters - weapons or phones were the only things I could think of - maybe a quick hiding place for drugs? Anyone else have any ideas on this?

LancelotLink
10-21-2011, 01:09 AM
Sad thing, the highly trained professionals are not always competent.

I know right? Imagine having a lawyer who says you don't need to adhere to my clients' 4th amendment right. :floorlaugh:

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 01:10 AM
My thoughts are that in the early days the phones were pinging and right at the house. Eventually the batteries died, but if that was the last place that they had pinged, then they would know they were there but just not be able to find them. However, it could be that the hiding place, wherever that was, was changed in the time that they stopped pinging and the time they were finally able to get in and really search. I know that DB and JI went back in early on, before they stated that they would never go back into the house. Wouldn't be too hard to grab them from their little hiding spot and put them somewhere else. Just a thought.

LancelotLink
10-21-2011, 01:10 AM
I was trying to think what else they could be looking for in the gutters - weapons or phones were the only things I could think of - maybe a quick hiding place for drugs? Anyone else have any ideas on this?

I'm stuck on the phones.

AlmostGone
10-21-2011, 01:11 AM
I was trying to think what else they could be looking for in the gutters - weapons or phones were the only things I could think of - maybe a quick hiding place for drugs? Anyone else have any ideas on this?

Do you think maybe they got a new cell phone? maybe a pre-paid? Didn't LE say they were looking for something that wasn't there before but is there now? something like that?

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 01:12 AM
The phones are THE key to this case. Finding them means that DB goes down.

LancelotLink
10-21-2011, 01:13 AM
My thoughts are that in the early days the phones were pinging and right at the house. Eventually the batteries died, but if that was the last place that they had pinged, then they would know they were there but just not be able to find them. However, it could be that the hiding place, wherever that was, was changed in the time that they stopped pinging and the time they were finally able to get in and really search. I know that DB and JI went back in early on, before they stated that they would never go back into the house. Wouldn't be too hard to grab them from their little hiding spot and put them somewhere else. Just a thought.

I agree. You can bet that even though the concerned parents never called the stolen cell phones that the KCPD did.

linajoy
10-21-2011, 01:14 AM
I was trying to think what else they could be looking for in the gutters - weapons or phones were the only things I could think of - maybe a quick hiding place for drugs? Anyone else have any ideas on this?

I believe yesterday was a "full sweep" evidence collection. They turned over the entire property just to see if they could find some MORE evidence. I mean they looked in the bird house and in the stuffed animals in the front yard shrine for goodness sake.:waitasec:

who knew?
10-21-2011, 01:16 AM
I believe yesterday was a "full sweep" evidence collection. They turned over the entire property just to see if they could find some MORE evidence. I mean they looked in the bird house and in the stuffed animals in the front yard shrine for goodness sake.:waitasec:

True! :)

Chris_Texas
10-21-2011, 01:17 AM
Am I the only person who doesn't think LE has found anything crucial? I hope I'm wrong; I am so anxious for sweet baby Lisa to be found! But I just don't feel like they've found anything...

I believe that they have found all kinds of crucial evidence. They just need a body now.

LancelotLink
10-21-2011, 01:17 AM
Do you think maybe they got a new cell phone? maybe a pre-paid? Didn't LE say they were looking for something that wasn't there before but is there now? something like that?

So, it couldn't be the cell phone given to them by a family member on Saturday. How about a new hard drive? I noticed in the walk through video inside the house, in the computer room, there appeared to be empty shelves and the computer tower door was opened and looked empty. I wish I knew when the hard drive was taken and when the video was shot. Dang...

who knew?
10-21-2011, 01:17 AM
I'm off to bed - hoping for news tomorrow. Good night, all.

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 01:20 AM
I looked for the video. I will continue to look.........I know I saw it and I remember what LE said. Now to find the vid. :)

Chris_Texas
10-21-2011, 01:21 AM
Just like JBR's family...

No... unlike JBR's family these folks are not rich and the police have been aggressively pursuing the case.

Lera213
10-21-2011, 01:21 AM
This is why LE wanted all the video's from media because they wanted to see them leaving the house with possession they took out of the house. They know they took the phones with them when they left the house. With DB statement of not going back to the house, LE knew those phones were not there anymore. They had to check just in case instead of them taking them, they hid them better. Now they have to review all raw video and my bet is all video of them leaving the house with items in hand. Then a search warrant will be performed at all places they stayed at, and they will know what to look for. My guess is a toy or stuffed animal they put those phones in when the left the house.

JeannieC
10-21-2011, 01:21 AM
I don't know the welfare system since I've never been on it. I did know many who were long ago before the welfare reform. I can tell you there are a lot of people that learn how to cheat the system. I'll leave it at that.

I must have missed something so please fill in the blanks for me. How did we find out DB and/or the Irwin household are on welfare and/or food stamps?

linajoy
10-21-2011, 01:22 AM
Am I the only person who doesn't think LE has found anything crucial? I hope I'm wrong; I am so anxious for sweet baby Lisa to be found! But I just don't feel like they've found anything...

IF the parents were involved in this, which I believe they were. There is no way they didn't leave some sort of evidence. We are not dealing with the sharpest criminals in this case. IMO!!

AlmostGone
10-21-2011, 01:23 AM
So, it couldn't be the cell phone given to them by a family member on Saturday. How about a new hard drive? I noticed in the walk through video inside the house, in the computer room, there appeared to be empty shelves and the computer tower door was opened and looked empty. I wish I knew when the hard drive was taken and when the video was shot. Dang...

I didnt know they got a new cell phone? It could be a new hard drive? Speaking of cell phones...How in the world do you program cell phones when your drunk? Just sayin...

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 01:23 AM
I could not agree with you more!

While I get there are cases that have been misconstrued. Statistically, it almost as rare as the boogieman walking in our houses and taking our children with no evidence or lead! Obviously, with the media attention here... that did seem to be a problem. So WHY would a MOTHER, A GOOD MOTHER, not want the HIGHLY TRAINED, but very competent PROFESSIONALS she NEEDS TO RELY ON that have THE BEST chance at locating HER MISSING CHILD, HER DAUGHTER to seek out, and follow up in the case?

I always find it interesting when someone has a fear of being arrested if they haven't done anything wrong to be arrested for...

Neglect and Child Endangerment is certainly better than a murder conviction. Reasonable doubt worked in the Anthony case...Even worse... never seeing your child again. IMVHO At what point does DB not understand the public can be much more forgiving of a horrible consequence of poor decision making skill in parenting, rather than someone who acts in manners that inhibit/interfere in the ability to help LE locate her daughter alive?

Unless I am mistaken, DB never even really talked to local media... she went straight to the top?
:welcome:
dingdingding----:yourock:

LancelotLink
10-21-2011, 01:24 AM
So True. None of us are 100% of the time, but I have a sneaking suspicion that these people have a much better chance at finding that child than a mother who can't remember what happened. IMVHO.

There are organizations that are HIGHLY skilled in dealing with such sensitive subjects with children. It may be that the Judge will need to assign a GAL in the case, or another advocate.

I was almost certain that that it was reported (besides out of DB's mouth in a televised interview) that LE wasn't being given access to the kiddos. I cannot say for certain that this was a statement made by LE.

She really did. She told MK after changing her story and announcing to the world and LE that she was too drunk to be taken seriously, that she was not going to allow the boys to be niterviewed again. I especially appreciated the way she said it, as if she had already given LE access to them once, what more could they want? Well, Deb, that was before you jerked the entire timeline out from under the very people who are trying to find your "kidnapped" baby.

JeannieC
10-21-2011, 01:25 AM
I totally agree with you about your mind being a jumbled mess,

Norest, the mods just told us to be nice so please don't tell CarrieBean her mind is a jumbled mess............we'll all go in time-out! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

Lera213
10-21-2011, 01:26 AM
I must have missed something so please fill in the blanks for me. How did we find out DB and/or the Irwin household are on welfare and/or food stamps?

We don't JeannieC, all speculation since it was pointed out when DB bought the wine she paid for the wine separately from the wipes and baby food. The speculation is since she paid separately maybe it was because on food stamps or any other welfare system you cannot buy alcohol

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 01:26 AM
Been proven where and how? Because they don't want their kids, who are no doubt traumatized by this, being bombarded with strangers questioning them yet again?

traumatized??????????????????????????????????????? ???:banghead:

The mom went on national tv and admitted she was sitting around drinking a box of wine and was drunk.....maybe even blacked out.

Mom should feel trauma. She got drunk when she had 3 children under her watch. One of them, a 10 month old baby, 'disappeared'.

She should feel lots of trauma.
She gets no sympathy from me.

imo

MyBelle
10-21-2011, 01:27 AM
The rules state that they have to be considered a "household" because they live in the same residence. She could ask to be considered a separate household but she would have to prove that she is a separate household and pays for food separately.

So, if she did say she was paying rent, then she would have to claim her husband's income. He was a PFC 6 years ago. So, he's probably an E5 or E6 now. That might qualify for WIC but I'm pretty sure not for food stamps (based on what I know of the military.) Also, at some point, if anyone found out that she was living with JI, she could be prosecuted for welfare fraud. Of course, I don't know how well they enforce that, but it could happen. lol

Based on my neice's experience in Kansas, if DB applied for any kind of welfare by saying that she was separated from her hubby or whatever, they would make her jump through hoops... such as taking classes, etc. DB would be expected at some point to actually start working. My neice tried to sit on her butt and collect welfare and they kicked her off because she didn't take the classes she was supposed to.

Actually, MamaK, the rules only state that an application must be signed and that the applicant attests to the truthfulness. Some states even allow applicants to supply a "purchase and prepare separately" document when unmarried people who live together seek food stamp assistance. Work exceptions are also given to parents with infants. But when a tip comes in that indicates a person is defrauding the system, an investigator is sent out to the house and jumping through the hoops does begin. I think this is true in every state.

I bet the State of Missouri is all over this case. It's been a few years since I worked for an HHS economic assistance unit. The gaming of the system is rampant and the age of computers is finally weeding out deceit.

JMO

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 01:27 AM
Sad thing, the highly trained professionals are not always competent.

Tell me, how can one call LE imcompetent if one doesn't live in that town and know them personally? kwim

LancelotLink
10-21-2011, 01:27 AM
I didnt know they got a new cell phone? It could be a new hard drive? Speaking of cell phones...How in the world do you program cell phones when your drunk? Just sayin...

You don't. She has more holes in more stories...I think her VanderSloot lawyer knows exactly what happened in that house and told her, you gotta get rid of this, all of it!! Tell them you were drunk, so drunk, you can't be counted on for your past statements and no further use to the investigation.

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 01:29 AM
Norest, the mods just told us to be nice so please don't tell CarrieBean her mind is a jumbled mess............we'll all go in time-out! :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

LOL....I'm innocent. All I did was agree with her! And, for what it's worth, MY mind is a jumbled mess in all this too!:crazy:

askfornina
10-21-2011, 01:30 AM
She really did. She told MK after changing her story and announcing to the world and LE that she was too drunk to be taken seriously, that she was not going to allow the boys to be niterviewed again. I especially appreciated the way she said it, as if she had already given LE access to them once, what more could they want? Well, Deb, that was before you jerked the entire timeline out from under the very people who are trying to find your "kidnapped" baby.

how do you know she didn't tell LE about the drinking?

JeannieC
10-21-2011, 01:30 AM
I'm stuck on the phones.

Didn't I notice a chimney on the roof? Maybe they were looking down the chimney.

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 01:30 AM
Tell me, how can one call LE imcompetent if one doesn't live in that town and know them personally? kwim

Exactly!

LancelotLink
10-21-2011, 01:31 AM
traumatized///////////////////////////////////////////////////:banghead:

The mom went on national tv and admitted she was sitting around drinking a box of wine and was drunk.....maybe even blacked out.


She should feel trauma. She got the drunk when she had 3 children under her watch. One of them --a 10 month old baby 'disappeared'.

She should feel lots of trauma.
She gets no sympathy from me.

imo

Not only did she take herself out of the equation by claiming to be shatfaced drunk, she is refusing to give LE access to the only other witnesses. She's slick, but not nearly slick enough. I'm guessing the FBI is all over her like stink on a rose.

Lera213
10-21-2011, 01:31 AM
you don't. She has more holes in more stories...i think her vandersloot lawyer knows exactly what happened in that house and told her, you gotta get rid of this, all of it!! Tell them you were drunk, so drunk, you can't be counted on for your past statements and no further use to the investigation.

bingo

Chris_Texas
10-21-2011, 01:33 AM
It has become a fact now that likely perps walk because LE has not found a body. No more logic and no more piecing together of facts and evidence. Look at the jury in the Anthony trial. They expected a 1 hr show of CSI to convict. They didn't even have brains or cared to make time to figure it out. They wanted machines like they have on "Bones" to prove the case for them.

Our society and its need for speed has got way out of hand. People can't or won't even use their logic anymore. This case comes down to common sense. How often are ten month old babies kidnapped by strangers?

I had one who kidpnapped a three month old but that was for rape...Yes, it happens!! I hope and pray we are not looking at another sexual pervert like that...I don't think we are. Chances would be one in a million. The point is what would prompt a stranger to steal a ten month old?

While I think there is some truth to this, I don't believe the Anthony trial was the best example. In that trial we saw the prosecution attempting to put together a CSI show type case based on some fairly thin science, while simultaniously ignoring the most damning facts about Casey. As it turned out this was not exactly the best tactic. Everyone, it seemed, was on trial... except Casey.

Dewey2Me1MoThyme
10-21-2011, 01:33 AM
I believe that they have found all kinds of crucial evidence. They just need a body now.

So now we know she is dead and no need to look for a live child, just leave her out there with whoever, and focus on the parents? All this based on no clear evidence she has parted this earth? :banghead:

LancelotLink
10-21-2011, 01:33 AM
how do you know she didn't tell LE about the drinking?

I don't. I have only heard that LE found the receipt and had to go to the store and obtain surveillance video. Doesn't sound like she was forthcoming. And I also don't know where the wine ended up. I don't know if she even had a glass, much less 5-10.

MamaK
10-21-2011, 01:33 AM
Actually, MamaK, the rules only state that an application must be signed and that the applicant attests to the truthfulness. Some states even allow applicants to supply a "purchase and prepare separately" document when unmarried people who live together seek food stamp assistance. Work exceptions are also given to parents with infants. But when a tip comes in that indicates a person is defrauding the system, an investigator is sent out to the house and jumping through the hoops does begin. I think this is true in every state.

I bet the State of Missouri is all over this case. It's been a few years since I worked for an HHS economic assistance unit. The gaming of the system is rampant and the age of computers is finally weeding out deceit.

JMO

We don't even know if they have ever applied to be on WIC or food stamps. Who knows? They might not be on either. I was just looking to see if, based on JI's income, they would be eligible.

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 01:35 AM
So now we know she is dead and no need to look for a live child, just leave her out there with whoever, and focus on the parents? All this based on no clear evidence she has parted this earth? :banghead:

I'm curious as to how you know that LE does not have clear evidence?

Lera213
10-21-2011, 01:37 AM
I big part of me is glad that no information has leaked out about the search, even though I'm so eager to learn, I also know the more I don't know the better for a conviction and to find Lisa.

It just drives me nuts not to know. Its like watching a glass fall off the counter but you cannot catch it in time.

SmoothOperator
10-21-2011, 01:38 AM
I don't have a clue what has happened to Lisa and I sure as he!! don't like Debs a
Bit for an entire plethora of reasons.. Nonetheless I havent a clue if she hurt, sold, or murdered her child.. I believe that LE absolutely said all that chit to her along with pulling tricks out of their bag!!(and I didn't pull it outta my azz about what went on.. The parents talk about in detail in one of the early sit down interviews.. Link located in the media links thread).. I believe it because I have got more than enough family members that range from beat cops to detectives, to law professors, to my ex husband works for the FBI.. And know what type techniques are used in "extraordinary circumstances" and baby Lisa's disappearance is just that therefor LE pull out all the stops.. Great that's there job but I've seen it happen too many times that they stop at the parents.. Jump to conclusions THEY DID IT, THEY KILLED THEIR CHILD.. and if its not noticed that in my posts(plural cuz there's several) that I state that if this were me and my husband and our child and I knew we'd not harmed our child.. I would not continue being told I'm a murderer for endless hours hoping that in the end they break my azz down enough that they give me that" out" several were talking about earlier that it was an accident and for to me to just admit to that "accident".. Just like what happened with Riley Fox's dad.. It happens! And I am well aware of it and I certainly won't jump on the BAndwagon that mom killed Lisa!! If she did then it will all come out..

I'm telling like it is in looking at it from an innocent PERSON's perspective.. It's a possibility still and Ive become quite comfortable on the fence.. Waiting to see more come to light.. Evidence not judgements convince and prove guilt!!

And I just love the love the word "unfettered" too..:sticks out tongue:

MamaK
10-21-2011, 01:38 AM
I've never been on WIC or food stamps or worked in any of those agencies so I don't know all the ins and outs. Interesting though how easy it is to fraud the system. I don't like it when people try to "get over." KWIM?

MyBelle
10-21-2011, 01:39 AM
how do you know she didn't tell LE about the drinking?

Deductive reasoning. LE told the media they found the receipt for the wine. If DB had told LE about the wine, there would be no need to pull security video from the store.

JMO

linajoy
10-21-2011, 01:40 AM
So now we know she is dead and no need to look for a live child, just leave her out there with whoever, and focus on the parents? All this based on no clear evidence she has parted this earth? :banghead:

Watching the parents interaction/expressions and listening to DB talk herself into a hole is all the evidence I need. Walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's a ......

Dewey2Me1MoThyme
10-21-2011, 01:44 AM
I'm curious as to how you know that LE does not have clear evidence?

I wasn't quoting LE, I was quoting the poster who said there IS a body to be looking for. :banghead:

cluciano63
10-21-2011, 01:44 AM
I can't get a feel at all for whether the searching was so extensive because they found something (or learned something) that made them search the way they did, or if they were doing a final, thorough search of the property. I am sure there will be many days, if not weeks, of testing ahead, to determine if anything they found is useful, unless they found the phones, in which case something may break sooner.

I have seen nothing to believe LE is unprofessional or incompetent or anything less than determined to solve this case and find Lisa and keep their investigation quiet, all of which is what should be happening, IMO. If I ever have to choose who is telling the truth between LE and anyone else, I will take LE every time, unless the officer(s) in question have some nefarious history. JMOJMOJMO

MyBelle
10-21-2011, 01:45 AM
I've never been on WIC or food stamps or worked in any of those agencies so I don't know all the ins and outs. Interesting though how easy it is to fraud the system. I don't like it when people try to "get over." KWIM?

A person would be a fool to try to defraud the system today. It's all computerized.

JMO

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 01:45 AM
So now we know she is dead and no need to look for a live child, just leave her out there with whoever, and focus on the parents? All this based on no clear evidence she has parted this earth? :banghead:

D2M1MT,
humm where did you read that there's no need to look for this child? :waitasec:

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 01:46 AM
I don't have a clue what has happened to Lisa and I sure as he!! don't like Debs a
Bit for an entire plethora of reasons.. Nonetheless I havent a clue if she hurt, sold, or murdered her child.. I believe that LE absolutely said all that chit to her along with pulling tricks out of their bag!!(and I didn't pull it outta my azz about what went on.. The parents talk about in detail in one of the early sit down interviews.. Link located in the media links thread).. I believe it because I have got more than enough family members that range from beat cops to detectives, to law professors, to my ex husband works for the FBI.. And know what type techniques are used in "extraordinary circumstances" and baby Lisa's disappearance is just that therefor LE pull out all the stops.. Great that's there job but I've seen it happen too many times that they stop at the parents.. Jump to conclusions THEY DID IT, THEY KILLED THEIR CHILD.. and if its not noticed that in my posts(plural cuz there's several) that I state that if this were me and my husband and our child and I knew we'd not harmed our child.. I would not continue being told I'm a murderer for endless hours hoping that in the end they break my azz down enough that they give me that" out" several were talking about earlier that it was an accident and for to me to just admit to that "accident".. Just like what happened with Riley Fox's dad.. It happens! And I am well aware of it and I certainly won't jump on the BAndwagon that mom killed Lisa!! If she did then it will all come out..

I'm telling like it is in looking at it from an innocent PERSON's perspective.. It's a possibility still and Ive become quite comfortable on the fence.. Waiting to see more come to light.. Evidence not judgements convince and prove guilt!!

And I just love the love the word "unfettered" too..:sticks out tongue:

I was on the fence too...until the parents started talking and changing their story...and doing several different things that made me jump right off the fence.

I also am from a law enforcement background. In fact, I lived and worked in Kansas City for LE. My husband is retired (25 years) of LE and now is an investigator. Doesn't make me know anymore about this than you do. However, I know the odds and also know how LE operates. And, I believe at least DB is guilty.

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 01:49 AM
I wasn't quoting LE, I was quoting the poster who said there IS a body to be looking for. :banghead:

And, I was asking how you know that LE doesn't have clear evidence. Must be miscommunication...never mind.

Jaxson
10-21-2011, 01:50 AM
Deductive reasoning. LE told the media they found the receipt for the wine. If DB had told LE about the wine, there would be no need to pull security video from the store.

JMO


Why wouldn't they pull the video just to prove she was where she said she was doing what she said she was doing and with whom? They aren't gonna just believe her right? No they verify.

AlmostGone
10-21-2011, 01:50 AM
A person would be a fool to try to defraud the system today. It's all computerized.

JMO

I dont live in the best area of my town and we have this store that got busted for letting people buy smokes with their food stamps, pay cell phone bills, and all sorts of shady stuff.. The hubby and I call it "the shady store" lol They have a old fashioned register so they can punch in any price they want...its crazy

MamaK
10-21-2011, 01:50 AM
A person would be a fool to try to defraud the system today. It's all computerized.

JMO

Well, thank goodness for that! :woohoo:

...and with that I'm off to sleep...

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 01:52 AM
I don't have a clue what has happened to Lisa and I sure as he!! don't like Debs a


snipped


You can look at it from an innocent parent's pov alll you want....It doesn't change anything.

FACT--woman admits she was drunk the night her baby 'disappears'. :banghead:

FACT --much points to one of these parents being a perp in a crime. :furious:

FACT--Mom won't allow son and step son to talk to LE and other professionals. :hand:

FACT--I have a chit load of relatives who are sherriffs, LE officers, 1 FBI, 1 attorney;

Doesnt have a daum thing to do with this case.

imo

norest4thewicked
10-21-2011, 01:52 AM
Why wouldn't they pull the video just to prove she was where she said she was doing what she said she was doing and with whom? They aren't gonna just believe her right? No they verify.

That's the point. She never said she was at the grocery store and LE discovered it when they found the receipt on their initial search.

marge_rita
10-21-2011, 01:53 AM
I was on the fence too...until the parents started talking and changing their story...and doing several different things that made me jump right off the fence.

I also am from a law enforcement background. In fact, I lived and worked in Kansas City for LE. My husband is retired (25 years) of LE and now is an investigator. Doesn't make me know anymore about this than you do. However, I know the odds and also know how LE operates. And, I believe at least DB is guilty.

:woohoo:

Thanks nr4tw.