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momtective
10-20-2011, 08:17 PM
Please bring all references video/articles of the man seen carrying a diaper clad baby, here.


I want to know exactly who saw what! I want to know if the husband was going to work or coming home from work.
In one article it says he was going to work, in other it says he was coming home from work...so which is it? In one article or video she says "We" seen and in another she says "He" seen...so which is it?


A neighbor, who later asked NBC Action News that she not be named, said her husband was coming home around 12 a.m. Tuesday when he saw the man carrying a baby wearing only a diaper.

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/new...#ixzz1bMxJbch4

At the end of the first video the mans wife is speaking to a reporter and it sounds like she says "We seen the guy act like he was gonna go into a residence over here but then my husband drove off so we're thinking he was just doing that so my husband would leave."

In another video (I'll have to hunt it down) it's reported that the husband returned to the home after seeing the man carrying the baby and asked his wife to call the police.

So which is it, was the man going to work or coming home from work and just exactly who saw what?

Turnadot
10-20-2011, 08:20 PM
Eyewitnesses are notoriously wrong. I'm sure most of them mean well, like the lady in the above interview, she just wants to help LE find Lisa, but I tend to think she and her husband are mistaken.

ela_ss teacher
10-20-2011, 08:31 PM
I think that if the baby carrying, walking in the middle of the night guy was a person of interest, the police would have hunted him down the same way they hunted the bike riding, back pack wearing, homeless handyman down. I thought that early on it was reported that baby walker was checked out and ruled out.

Although he had no clues, one neighbor reportedly told police about seeing an African-American individual carrying a baby up the street around midnight, only hours before Lisa, (whose birthday on Nov. 11 would now make her 11 months old) was reported missing.

Was that information important? Some neighbors later heard that it was discounted and had turned out to be nothing. Since that day, they feel in limbo, lost, unsure and uneasy, wanting to support and believe the best of their neighbors, but not knowing what to believe.



Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/14/3208365/neighborhoods-trust-stability.html#ixzz1bN8LkQVg

In MY mind and in MY heart, the baby walker doesn't factor in to this case. I don't know why, but I just don't feel it.

MY OPINION ONLYYYY..

gliving
10-20-2011, 08:31 PM
"Although he had no clues, one neighbor reportedly told police about seeing an African-American individual carrying a baby up the street around midnight"

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/14...#ixzz1asRf3n6T


I copied this from a past post. I'm not sure if the link still works.


ETA: new link that works http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/14/3208365/neighborhoods-trust-stability.html

writer7
10-20-2011, 09:19 PM
Maybe they were able to find out that that baby belonged to the man and he was just running to get the mail late at night or something. I'm sure they would have followed that lead. I hope so!

cluciano63
10-20-2011, 09:23 PM
Who is to say he didn't go into the house?
I find it impossible to believe that LE did not check this out. It has been mentioned by LE so we know they are aware of the "tip." And I also find it hard to believe that anyone stealing a baby would be that close to a home as to be near the door, if he was making his getaway. JMO

w1df10wr
10-20-2011, 09:46 PM
If this was a credible lead, wouldn't LE have released a composite sketch?

Amster
10-20-2011, 09:49 PM
If this was a credible lead, wouldn't LE have released a composite sketch?

Of course...

Darcyline
10-20-2011, 09:49 PM
I have always felt like this was looked into and discounted as Lisa or something that relates to Lisa.

cindysue
10-20-2011, 11:48 PM
If this was a credible lead, wouldn't LE have released a composite sketch?

Maybe he didn't get a good look at the guys face for a sketch, then it would be impossible for them to even look for him

MagnoliaMom
10-21-2011, 12:09 AM
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/neighbor-says-husband-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper

Woman's name is not mentioned but comes up on screen.

jjenny
10-21-2011, 12:17 AM
Maybe he didn't get a good look at the guys face for a sketch, then it would be impossible for them to even look for him

Police don't seem to be interested in that story for whatever reason. Maybe they found the guy who was out with his child.

pinkfly
10-21-2011, 01:28 AM
I thought this sounded a bit off when the guys wife wanted to do the talking and he did not want to talk about it and seemed to avoid the camera while she was interviewed. Her story was entirely based on what he told her so it was already second hand news.

daisy7
10-21-2011, 07:51 AM
Mike Thompson said he saw the man wearing a T-shirt and carrying a baby near Lisa's home at about 4 a.m. on Tuesday Oct. 4. Thompson said he waited about a week before he called police because he didn't immediately make the connection between what he saw and Lisa's disappearance.

(snip)

Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/news/29547997/detail.html#ixzz1bPrvP1z8

2 different people saw a baby that night??

peeples
10-21-2011, 08:33 AM
Just heard on the today show during a very brief lisa update, that the account has been discredited.

nursebeeme
10-21-2011, 08:47 AM
http://g.co/maps/7rrhk

map showing where he saw the man and baby at 4am

(interactive case map.. but I have centered it on the location of the sighting... to look at other locations click on pushpins to the left of the map)

jjenny
10-21-2011, 08:48 AM
Mike Thompson said he saw the man wearing a T-shirt and carrying a baby near Lisa's home at about 4 a.m. on Tuesday Oct. 4. Thompson said he waited about a week before he called police because he didn't immediately make the connection between what he saw and Lisa's disappearance.

(snip)

Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/news/29547997/detail.html#ixzz1bPrvP1z8

2 different people saw a baby that night??

Didn't make a connection for a week? O'key.

Sigh Sister
10-21-2011, 08:50 AM
Just heard on the today show during a very brief lisa update, that the account has been discredited.

Has it been completely discredited or has LE not been able to develop any further leads from the sightings? Not sure how it could be completely discredited without having a man come forward and say he was on a walk-about with his baby (clad only in a diaper) that night. Or did these witnesses fail lie detector tests? I'm thinking LE just hasn't been able to develop this lead further.

luckyme
10-21-2011, 08:53 AM
U go in take a baby and leave no evidence? But you walk all over with a baby in plain site? I dont buy it. moo :waitasec:

jjenny
10-21-2011, 08:56 AM
Has it been completely discredited or has LE not been able to develop any further leads from the sightings? Not sure how it could be completely discredited without having a man come forward and say he was on a walk-about with his baby (clad only in a diaper) that night. Or did these witnesses fail lie detector tests? I'm thinking LE just hasn't been able to develop this lead further.

It's not one "lead." These "sightings" are hours apart. So we are supposed to believe this dude or dudes walked around for hours with a baby? And after 4 am (second witness claim) police was already out there responding to 911 call and then looking for Lisa. So how likely is it that police never noticed a dude with a baby just walking around?

nursebeeme
10-21-2011, 08:56 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-eyewitnesses-speak-14785603
GMA

**woman who saw man with the baby has been interviewed four times... much more in video**

Sigh Sister
10-21-2011, 08:56 AM
U go in take a baby and leave no evidence? But you walk all over with a baby in plain site? I dont buy it. moo :waitasec:

Are we sure that there was no evidence?

not_my_kids
10-21-2011, 08:58 AM
To be honest, I think that there either was no man or if there was, the child he was carrying was his own. JMO. And no I don't think that the woman is necessarily lying about what her husband saw, but witnesses are unreliable, and even more so when they are told to remember something that they had no reason to notice at the time. So, when the police told her to try to remember a certain time frame on a certain night, her mind created something.

nursebeeme
10-21-2011, 08:58 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-missing-child-spotted-14785658

Dan Abrams

luckyme
10-21-2011, 08:59 AM
Are we sure that there was no evidence?

No, but i dont think there is any stranger abduction evidence. moo. LE doesnt seem to be going that way. moo :seeya:

Sigh Sister
10-21-2011, 08:59 AM
It's not one "lead." These "sightings" are hours apart. So we are supposed to believe this dude or dudes walked around for hours with a baby? And after 4 am (second witness claim) police was already out there responding to 911 call and then looking for Lisa. So how likely is it that police never noticed a dude with a baby just walking around?

So do you think the second witness is making his story up? That could be. Some people just love attention.

momtective
10-21-2011, 09:04 AM
http://g.co/maps/7rrhk

map showing where he saw the man and baby at 4am

(interactive case map.. but I have centered it on the location of the sighting... to look at other locations click on pushpins to the left of the map)

To walk that distance from the Irwin home, according to google maps would take about an hour and 5 minutes.

Whocanitbenow
10-21-2011, 09:10 AM
I find it hard to believe that people are so willing to discount the stories of 2 different people who saw just about the same thing, but will speculate all over about possible scenarios of Lisa's passing in that home.

There is nothing to support that however, There are 2 people that saw basically the same thing hours apart.

If they interviewed the woman 4 times, They are looking into it, I just wish they would put more out there and come out daily and say, "KEEP LOOKING FOR LISA.. we are looking into every possibility, But we need to be looking for a live baby NOW!" They can work on their other theories behind the scenes But I believe a lot of people may have stopped looking for her because they think LE has something on the parents.

Donjeta
10-21-2011, 09:14 AM
Wait, did this woman see something? Or just her husband?

jjenny
10-21-2011, 09:15 AM
Wait, did this woman see something? Or just her husband?

I have no clue. The recent video makes it seem like she and her husband both saw something.

Sigh Sister
10-21-2011, 09:18 AM
I find it hard to believe that people are so willing to discount the stories of 2 different people who saw just about the same thing, but will speculate all over about possible scenarios of Lisa's passing in that home.

There is nothing to support that however, There are 2 people that saw basically the same thing hours apart.

If they interviewed the woman 4 times, They are looking into it, I just wish they would put more out there and come out daily and say, "KEEP LOOKING FOR LISA.. we are looking into every possibility, But we need to be looking for a live baby NOW!" They can work on their other theories behind the scenes But I believe a lot of people may have stopped looking for her because they think LE has something on the parents.

I agree. Is it strange for a man to carry a baby wearing only diapers around for hours? Absolutely! But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Someone who would snatch a baby from her crib obviously isn't playing with a full deck.

Cazzie
10-21-2011, 09:21 AM
Just heard on the today show during a very brief lisa update, that the account has been discredited.
What/which account?

jjenny
10-21-2011, 09:22 AM
I agree. Is it strange for a man to carry a baby wearing only diapers around for hours? Absolutely! But that doesn't mean it didn't happen. Someone who would snatch a baby from her crib obviously isn't playing with a full deck.

Well it doesn't mean it did happen either. One witness waits a week to report it because he couldn't make a connection? Really? As for the guy and his wife who claim to have seen the man and a baby, I can't figure out if they both saw the man and a baby, or just the husband.

Mountain_Kat
10-21-2011, 09:23 AM
Wait, did this woman see something? Or just her husband?

Thank you! I thought she said in an interview that her husband saw this on his way to work. Why wouldn't she have said, "my husband and I saw a man with a baby" in the interview? :waitasec:

Sigh Sister
10-21-2011, 09:27 AM
Well it doesn't mean it did happen either. One witness waits a week to report it because he couldn't make a connection? Really? As for the guy and his wife who claim to have seen the man and a baby, I can't figure out if they both saw the man and a baby, or just the husband.

I could be that the second witness wasn't aware that there was a missing baby. Some people are really oblivious, and don't read the paper or watch the news. I can't figure out if the husband and wife both saw him either.

momtective
10-21-2011, 09:28 AM
Wait, did this woman see something? Or just her husband?


I have no clue. The recent video makes it seem like she and her husband both saw something.

Exactly! This was my point in starting this thread.:banghead:
Something is soooo not right here.

jjenny
10-21-2011, 09:29 AM
I could be that the second witness wasn't aware that there was a missing baby. Some people are really oblivious, and don't read the paper or watch the news. I can't figure out if the husband and wife both saw him either.

Then how does the witness know what day he saw the man and the baby?

andalso
10-21-2011, 09:30 AM
Posted this in MSM thread too...

Today Show's Peter Alexander this morning states : "....Police are discounting reports that a neighbor saw a man with a baby near the home early that morning...."

Whocanitbenow
10-21-2011, 09:31 AM
I think part of the problem is the "experts" people have reporting on this too. I feel like at Least Dan Abrams has an open mind, Where as Baden and Geraldo are ready to convict.

It is ridiculous. It is one thing to say, Here is a possibility but to just say out and out that Lisa has passed is ridiculous..

I watched the clip on GMA about the witnesses and are glad they are reporting on them.

JUST LOOK FOR LISA!

momtective
10-21-2011, 09:32 AM
Posted this in MSM thread too...

Today Show's Peter Alexander this morning states : "....Police are discounting reports that a neighbor saw a man with a baby near the home early that morning...."

Then why have they questioned the woman four times?:banghead:

Whocanitbenow
10-21-2011, 09:33 AM
Posted this in MSM thread too...

Today Show's Peter Alexander this morning states : "....Police are discounting reports that a neighbor saw a man with a baby near the home early that morning...."

He is my least likely source for info about this case. He definitely seems to be coming from the "JDI" place.. I want to see open minds.

Sigh Sister
10-21-2011, 09:34 AM
Then how does the witness know what day he saw the man and the baby?

IDK, maybe Oct 4 was the last time he rode his motorcycle (he said he wanted to offer them a ride, but couldn't because he was on his bike)?

Abby Normal
10-21-2011, 09:37 AM
Or he was leaving a party, and he knows what night the party was on. The options of how he can name the day are endless. Just as the options for why/how he may make this up are endless too.

bstnh1
10-21-2011, 09:39 AM
Mike Thompson said he saw the man wearing a T-shirt and carrying a baby near Lisa's home at about 4 a.m. on Tuesday Oct. 4. Thompson said he waited about a week before he called police because he didn't immediately make the connection between what he saw and Lisa's disappearance.

(snip)

Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/news/29547997/detail.html#ixzz1bPrvP1z8

2 different people saw a baby that night??


And 4 hours apart?????

Jacie Estes
10-21-2011, 09:43 AM
The news has now shown two different men who saw a guy carrying a baby at two different times; these witnesses were two different ages, two different body types and one guy has a shaved head, the other gray hair.

THIS is why I'm still leaning towards SODDI

andalso
10-21-2011, 09:44 AM
Then why have they questioned the woman four times?:banghead:

I don't know....I am more confused then ever, but Peter Alexander said the police discounted it....

I am not sure what discounting it even means, does it mean they ruled out these sightings as being baby Lisa or does it mean they deny these sightings ever happened.
Either way, I find it....interesting.....

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 09:44 AM
The new report of a sighting is a little lacking in details - did he say he ALSO saw a black man carrying a diaper clad white baby?

That would be memorable. Unforgettable in the wee hours.

And something H I G H L Y suspicious. Why are these two witnesses not giving better details?

Kamille
10-21-2011, 09:46 AM
So do you think the second witness is making his story up? That could be. Some people just love attention.

Well it is odd that this woman's account seems to be changing, LE have interviewed her/them 4 times and a week later some guy tells his story which is supposed to corroborate theirs? But his time doesn't really make sense either.

Seems a little off to me. But anything is possible I guess. :waitasec:

Jacie Estes
10-21-2011, 09:46 AM
Remember, IF the parents are involved and IF this does go to trial, it only takes one juror to acquit. There is enough doubt out there in the media that one person may not believe 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.

Sigh Sister
10-21-2011, 09:48 AM
The new report of a sighting is a little lacking in details - did he say he ALSO saw a black man carrying a diaper clad white baby?

That would be memorable. Unforgettable in the wee hours.

And something H I G H L Y suspicious. Why are these two witnesses not giving better details?

Hopefully they gave more details to LE. The wife who claimed she saw this man was questioned 4 times.

jjenny
10-21-2011, 09:49 AM
The new report of a sighting is a little lacking in details - did he say he ALSO saw a black man carrying a diaper clad white baby?

That would be memorable. Unforgettable in the wee hours.

And something H I G H L Y suspicious. Why are these two witnesses not giving better details?
They asked him to describe the man. He described height and weight but didn't bother to mention race.

Rooster27
10-21-2011, 09:49 AM
LE has interviewed these people, many times as we are hearing today. As we all know, they have ways of ruling out eye witness accounts and have information that we do not have. we are always working on less information and when a news blast comes out like this, it is so hopeful that we jump on it. I know i did. Not speaking for everyone obviously. I find myself on the fence. I do believe that this mom was neglectful in some way and it resulted in the "loss" of this baby. I believe it was reported that LI was walking already. And the front door was left open. Perhaps she got out of her crib and walked right out the door...unbeknownst to mommy who was under the influence. I know it sounds crazy, most kids want to stick around mommy and the house, but maybe mommy was outside on the porch when this happened. Maybe she was looking for mommy. I know it's just a coincidence because we do not even know where this pic was taken, but the now well known pic of Lisa looking out the door, with her hands on it standing up it, is becoming a haunting image this morning. It looks like she wants to see the world. Reading too much into it, silly me. Or maybe because I was that kind of baby, that always wanted to be outside. Just want this baby to be alive somewhere is all. If she was indeed outside, it would be a golden opportunity for someone looking for a baby. Far fetched, that someone just happened to be walking on that block at 12:00 midnight I admit, but I guess it's possible. I am also curious how they tie into the witness who said they saw an african american man carrying a baby at around 11:30 or midnight, if I remember correctly, too. I don't know what thread that was posted on in the very early days of this. And it was discounted pretty quickly by LE because i brought it up then on this site. Neither witness on that ABC report described the race of the man did they? I am sure that LE knows. Well, again JMO. But motorbike witness says he saw a man carrying an unclothed baby at an intersection! At 4:00 am. I would remember that too. It may not have been Lisa, but it sure is odd. But it also is odd that there aren't more accounts of the sighting than two. If a man carried a baby for a few hours, and many blocks walking, as spread apart as these two eye witness locations are, it seems there would have been many more sightings of this than two ( three?) IMO.

bstnh1
10-21-2011, 09:51 AM
Why are eyewitness accounts often inaccurate? Well, how many of us can remember any of the pedestrians who crossed the street at the intersection where we stopped for a red light on our way to work last Tuesday? What they were wearing, how tall they were, what color their hair was, what they looked like and what they were carrying? Here's an easier one.........what did the person look like who stood in front of you in line the last time you went to the bank? Admittedly, a man walking down the street with a baby at 3 am might grab your attention. But to remember what he was wearing, how tall he was and about how much he weighed???

josie1986
10-21-2011, 09:51 AM
Well it is odd that this woman's account seems to be changing, LE have interviewed her/them 4 times and a week later some guy tells his story which is supposed to corroborate theirs? But his time doesn't really make sense either.

Seems a little off to me. But anything is possible I guess. :waitasec:

does DB or JI know the neighbours that the husband seen the guy on the way home from work?

Abby Normal
10-21-2011, 09:51 AM
Do we have a MSM link that the first sighting was a black man? Because I watched the wife of the sighter speak and I never heard that detail at all. Wondering if it is accurate or another media mix-up.

MamaK
10-21-2011, 09:55 AM
So, 2 reports of seeing a man carrying a practically naked baby that night, but the times are 4 hours apart? ...one around midnight and one at 0400. Were they seen in completely different areas? The 2nd report said that the man was black. Did the first report specifically mention race?

I remember hearing that the first report was discounted by police awhile back, but is this 2nd report discounted as well?

It looks like once again I'm left with more questions than answer. :banghead:

jjenny
10-21-2011, 09:55 AM
Do we have a MSM link that the first sighting was a black man? Because I watched the wife of the sighter speak and I never heard that detail at all. Wondering if it is accurate or another media mix-up.

"The wife of the sighter" appears to be claiming in the recent video that she saw the baby herself.

jjenny
10-21-2011, 09:57 AM
Why are eyewitness accounts often inaccurate? Well, how many of us can remember any of the pedestrians who crossed the street at the intersection where we stopped for a red light on our way to work last Tuesday? What they were wearing, how tall they were, what color their hair was, what they looked like and what they were carrying? Here's an easier one.........what did the person look like who stood in front of you in line the last time you went to the bank? Admittedly, a man walking down the street with a baby at 3 am might grab your attention. But to remember what he was wearing, how tall he was and about how much he weighed???

His height, weight, and what he was wearing was not a problem for the second witness who couldn't make a connection for week.

Whocanitbenow
10-21-2011, 09:57 AM
I think there is more to the witnesses and that LE is starting to give it more weight because of the searches they conducted. I think they are starting to walk it back because even NG FB is wondering about the accounts and Lisa being abducted as DB said. To me that means they may have more information than we do and that LE is having to face the possibility after railroading this parents in the MSM.

jjenny
10-21-2011, 09:58 AM
I think there is more to the witnesses and that LE is starting to give it more weight because of the searches they conducted. I think they are starting to walk it back because even NG FB is wondering about the accounts and Lisa being abducted as DB said. To me that means they may have more information than we do and that LE is having to face the possibility after railroading this parents in the MSM.

I haven't seen anything to support the idea.

Abby Normal
10-21-2011, 10:00 AM
"The wife of the sighter" appears to be claiming in the recent video that she saw the baby herself.

The GMA video that's not up on the site yet?

Yeah, by her first account that's not true at all. I bet she believes she did just because of how much she has accessed and tinkered with this memory- but from outside looking in it's perplexing.

weird.

jjenny
10-21-2011, 10:01 AM
The GMA video that's not up on the site yet?

Yeah, by her first account that's not true at all. I bet she believes she did just because of how much she has accessed and tinkered with this memory- but from outside looking in it's perplexing.

weird.

We already have a link on this thread where she describes how "we" saw a hand (of the baby) clearly implying both her and her husband were eyewitnesses.

josie1986
10-21-2011, 10:03 AM
The GMA video that's not up on the site yet?

Yeah, by her first account that's not true at all. I bet she believes she did just because of how much she has accessed and tinkered with this memory- but from outside looking in it's perplexing.

weird.

how do we know that they even seen this,now she has changed her story i don't know what to believe.....could just be after their 5minutes of fame.seems sad if that is the case since after all it is a baby that missing :(

Jacie Estes
10-21-2011, 10:03 AM
They asked him to describe the man. He described height and weight but didn't bother to mention race.

He was riding and so perspective of height/size is different than if he were in a car.

annalia
10-21-2011, 10:05 AM
I think there is more to the witnesses and that LE is starting to give it more weight because of the searches they conducted. I think they are starting to walk it back because even NG FB is wondering about the accounts and Lisa being abducted as DB said. To me that means they may have more information than we do and that LE is having to face the possibility after railroading this parents in the MSM.

I haven't seen LE railroad the parents in MSM. Other than saying that they weren't answering questions, which seems to be true, what has LE done to railroad them?

josie1986
10-21-2011, 10:05 AM
so we know the guy on the motorcycle reported his sighting a week after lisa went missing and the neighbours in the first days of the investigation? is that right?

i may be getting confused but was there another sighting? if so i'd like to know how long after did they witness report it

curiositycat
10-21-2011, 10:05 AM
The second witness, just now coming forward, could he be a "plant" from the defense team? MOO

MamaK
10-21-2011, 10:07 AM
The second witness, just now coming forward, could he be a "plant" from the defense team? MOO

surely that would come out in a trial...

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 10:07 AM
I haven't seen LE railroad the parents in MSM. Other than saying that they weren't answering questions, which seems to be true, what has LE done to railroad them?
LE hasn't railroaded the parents in the MSM, heck, why would they? The parents are doing a good job of that all by themselves.

IMO

Patty G
10-21-2011, 10:09 AM
Good Morning America
Two people claim that they saw a man carrying a baby in the middle of the night.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-eyewitnesses-speak-14785603

Abrams on witnesses who claim they saw a man with a baby late at night.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-missing-child-spotted-14785658

daisy7
10-21-2011, 10:09 AM
SY was asked about the 1st the 1st sighting in one of the pressers wither on day 2 or 3. IIRC, he said something like it wasn't a credible lead. Does anyone have a link to that presser handy?

djm41
10-21-2011, 10:12 AM
I just watched a clip of one of the men on another thread. He said he could recognize the man if he saw him again. Shouldn't someone be showing this guy some pictures? Did he go to the media and not to the police?

Patty G
10-21-2011, 10:13 AM
MT, did NOT say the man he spotted was black; at least not in the GMA interview. The only thing he stated is that he saw a man in a tee shirt, carrying a baby and would recognize the man if he saw him again. He said he was ~5'7, 5'8 around 140 to 150 pounds, late 30's early 40's.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-eyewitnesses-speak-14785603

Rooster27
10-21-2011, 10:13 AM
So, 2 reports of seeing a man carrying a practically naked baby that night, but the times are 4 hours apart? ...one around midnight and one at 0400. Were they seen in completely different areas? The 2nd report said that the man was black. Did the first report specifically mention race?

I remember hearing that the first report was discounted by police awhile back, but is this 2nd report discounted as well?

It looks like once again I'm left with more questions than answer. :banghead:

Both BBM.

So the second witness said this, I must have watched a different video, because i didn't hear that on the ABC video. Was this NBC? I have to go back and look at the media thread to see if it has both.

That is what is bugging me, I remember the first report weeks ago was definitely a woman saying her husband saw a man carrying a diapered baby, and he was african american. This is what i am remembering. Could be wrong. Sounds like this is the woman they are reporting on now. And this was supposedly near the house or street. Now they are saying it was a few houses up? I am not sure I heard that the first time, just that it was near. Not necessarily contradictory, but if the second witness, motorbike man, does not describe the man carrying the baby as african american, then it seems to be two different people. But the news then, IMO, is trying to grab at straws, nothing new to report and everyone, like us, is waiting on pins and needles for something to break. Hope they didn't purposefully put these together into a story just for news, but as we know. It has happened before. AHHHH!

josie1986
10-21-2011, 10:13 AM
I just watched a clip of one of the men on another thread. He said he could recognize the man if he saw him again. Shouldn't someone be showing this guy some pictures? Did he go to the media and not to the police?

or at least get an artists of impression of what he remembered? then at least people could be on the look out.

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 10:14 AM
Well it is odd that this woman's account seems to be changing, LE have interviewed her/them 4 times and a week later some guy tells his story which is supposed to corroborate theirs? But his time doesn't really make sense either.

Seems a little off to me. But anything is possible I guess. :waitasec:

They both appear like believable people, to me. Neither of them looks like an attention hound or a crackpot. IMHO.

Whocanitbenow
10-21-2011, 10:15 AM
I haven't seen anything to support the idea.

You don't think if they had been in that house and found something, anything that led them more toward Lisa being hurt there, We would not know? I think what they are finding is leading them to an intruder and they are leaking it to MSM and that is why all the stories about the witnesses are out today.

It is their way of not saying, "Yeah we might have been off base.."

I am not saying that it is proof positive , But it is certainly just as much of a possibility as the death scenarios I have seen posted here. Even NG? That says they know something...

jjenny
10-21-2011, 10:16 AM
You don't think if they had been in that house and found something, anything that led them more toward Lisa being hurt there, We would not know? I think what they are finding is leading them to an intruder and they are leaking it to MSM and that is why all the stories about the witnesses are out today.

It is their way of not saying, "Yeah we might have been off base.."

I am not saying that it is proof positive , But it is certainly just as much of a possibility as the death scenarios I have seen posted here. Even NG? That says they know something...

Hah? The story about the wife and husband eyewitnesses have been there from the beginning (although it is very unclear which one of them was actually an eyewitness). This new supposed eyewitness appears to have contacted the press on his own.

Abby Normal
10-21-2011, 10:16 AM
how do we know that they even seen this,now she has changed her story i don't know what to believe.....could just be after their 5minutes of fame.seems sad if that is the case since after all it is a baby that missing :(

It absolutely could be false, eye witness accounts are notoriously weak.

Patty G
10-21-2011, 10:19 AM
Article dated: 10/4/11
Neighbor says husband saw man carrying baby wearing only a diaper

A woman who lives in the area where police believe a 10-month-old child was abducted said her husband saw a man carrying a baby early Tuesday morning, but didn’t think anything of it.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/neighbor-says-husband-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper#ixzz1bQTJXUHH

frankie069
10-21-2011, 10:21 AM
I posted this on another thread because this one was just made and I didnt know it, so here is my opinion.

I see we have a thread about this now but being this is here I hope its OK for one comment by me.. First of all I dont buy this is Lisa, secondly what kind of a person see's a man carrying a baby at that time of night or morning unclothed and doesnt call the police on a normal situation. Thats the problem with this country, we dont mind our own business on half the things we should and when we see something "weird or strange" we dont speak up. God knows if at 4am, 3am or 12am I see a man or woman for that matter carrying an unclothed baby down the street, my butt is on the phone with the police, knowing me, I would have stopped the person and asked if everything was ok and if they needed help with something just to keep them there until the police arrived.. I am nosy and caring like that.

jjenny
10-21-2011, 10:23 AM
Article dated: 10/4/11
Neighbor says husband saw man carrying baby wearing only a diaper

A woman who lives in the area where police believe a 10-month-old child was abducted said her husband saw a man carrying a baby early Tuesday morning, but didnít think anything of it.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/neighbor-says-husband-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper#ixzz1bQTJXUHH

So at that time it was her husband who've seen it?

Mountain_Kat
10-21-2011, 10:24 AM
Article dated: 10/4/11
Neighbor says husband saw man carrying baby wearing only a diaper

A woman who lives in the area where police believe a 10-month-old child was abducted said her husband saw a man carrying a baby early Tuesday morning, but didn’t think anything of it.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/neighbor-says-husband-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper#ixzz1bQTJXUHH

So...how many sightings of this man and a baby were there? Two or three? :waitasec:

Patty G
10-21-2011, 10:25 AM
So at that time it was her husband who've seen it?

Yes, according to the article, she claims it was her husband.

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 10:25 AM
I posted this on another thread because this one was just made and I didnt know it, so here is my opinion.

I see we have a thread about this now but being this is here I hope its OK for one comment by me.. First of all I dont buy this is Lisa, secondly what kind of a person see's a man carrying a baby at that time of night or morning unclothed and doesnt call the police on a normal situation. Thats the problem with this country, we dont mind our own business on half the things we should and when we see something "weird or strange" we dont speak up. God knows if at 4am, 3am or 12am I see a man or woman for that matter carrying an unclothed baby down the street, my butt is on the phone with the police, knowing me, I would have stopped the person and asked if everything was ok and if they needed help with something just to keep them there until the police arrived.. I am nosy and caring like that.
There are two reasons, 1 being the man could have been carrying his own fussy baby to try and get him/her to sleep, or just going for a walk with his baby for fresh air. 2 is that people hesitate to phone the police because they assume it's a variation of number 1.

IMO

jjenny
10-21-2011, 10:25 AM
So...how many sightings of this man and a baby were there? Two or three? :waitasec:

If this keeps going, they could be many more by people "remembering" they saw it.

Patty G
10-21-2011, 10:25 AM
So...how many sightings of this man and a baby were there? Two or three? :waitasec:

Two so far.

linda505
10-21-2011, 10:26 AM
2 alleged sightings and LE have discounted them both? We are only getting this info from MSM - so I take it with a large grain of salt. Has LE made that statement? If I am LE and I have evidence or even a strong belief that Baby Lisa died in the home then I still have to determine the how, when and by whom removed her body. So in my opinion LE would not discount these sightings and if they do then in my opinion they are sure helping set up a good defense.

frankie069
10-21-2011, 10:26 AM
You don't think if they had been in that house and found something, anything that led them more toward Lisa being hurt there, We would not know? I think what they are finding is leading them to an intruder and they are leaking it to MSM and that is why all the stories about the witnesses are out today.

It is their way of not saying, "Yeah we might have been off base.."

I am not saying that it is proof positive , But it is certainly just as much of a possibility as the death scenarios I have seen posted here. Even NG? That says they know something...

First I have to disagree with you if you dont mind. The only reason LE became suspicious of the parents is because they stopped cooperating. I dont think they ever gave up the idea that she was possibly kidnapped, the story just doesnt fit because a person that was to kidnap Lisa had to have every single thing going for them that night which they did and statistically, thats almost impossible. LE has been working their behinds off to find this baby and have answered every single lead in this case. Whether it be about the parents or someone else. They are doing everything that they can. I dont think that they want Lisa not found, no matter how she is found. Cold cases, especially when they deal with children arent something that LE wants hanging over them.

I am having trouble even buying this story, do we have a person looking for their 15 minutes of fame here ( the loonies come out like I dont know what in these cases) or why did these people wait so long to say, hey what about this person we saw??? JMO

jjenny
10-21-2011, 10:27 AM
There are two reasons, 1 being the man could have been carrying his own fussy baby to try and get him/her to sleep, or just going for a walk with his baby for fresh air. 2 is that people hesitate to phone the police because they assume it's a variation of number 1.

IMO

If this man is African American (as was claimed in one msm report) but the baby is white, then people are not likely to think this man is carrying his own fussy baby.

SurfieTX
10-21-2011, 10:27 AM
So...how many sightings of this man and a baby were there? Two or three? :waitasec:

Two, I believe:

1. 10/04/2011: Neighbor's husband reported seeing a man carrying a baby on a street perpendicular to Lister around 12:30ish
2. Mike Thompson: Going to or from work riding his motorcycle, reported today, but saw it the night she disappeared. Sighting at approximately 4:00 a.m.

momtective
10-21-2011, 10:27 AM
I posted this on another thread because this one was just made and I didnt know it, so here is my opinion.

I see we have a thread about this now but being this is here I hope its OK for one comment by me.. First of all I dont buy this is Lisa, secondly what kind of a person see's a man carrying a baby at that time of night or morning unclothed and doesnt call the police on a normal situation. Thats the problem with this country, we dont mind our own business on half the things we should and when we see something "weird or strange" we dont speak up. God knows if at 4am, 3am or 12am I see a man or woman for that matter carrying an unclothed baby down the street, my butt is on the phone with the police, knowing me, I would have stopped the person and asked if everything was ok and if they needed help with something just to keep them there until the police arrived.. I am nosy and caring like that.

BBM
Especially if the man is a black man in a predominantly white neighborhood!

frankie069
10-21-2011, 10:29 AM
Two so far.

The problem I have, is how many nuts are going to start coming out of the woodwork for their 15 minutes of fame saying they saw someone with the baby?? I just cant buy this and they are 2 separate sightings right? At 2 different times of night? Yeah, I cant buy this at all. No one also called the police then and there, what is wrong with people.. I really must be a nosy person.. I would have called.

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 10:31 AM
First I have to disagree with you if you dont mind. The only reason LE became suspicious of the parents is because they stopped cooperating. I dont think they ever gave up the idea that she was possibly kidnapped, the story just doesnt fit because a person that was to kidnap Lisa had to have every single thing going for them that night which they did and statistically, thats almost impossible. LE has been working their behinds off to find this baby and have answered every single lead in this case. Whether it be about the parents or someone else. They are doing everything that they can. I dont think that they want Lisa not found, no matter how she is found. Cold cases, especially when they deal with children arent something that LE wants hanging over them.

I am having trouble even buying this story, do we have a person looking for their 15 minutes of fame here ( the loonies come out like I dont know what in these cases) or why did these people wait so long to say, hey what about this person we saw??? JMO

You've got those two things turned around. They stopped cooperating because LE was telling her, flat out, that she had killed baby Lisa. Over and over and over and over for hours.

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 10:32 AM
If this man is African American (as was claimed in one msm report) but the baby is white, then people are not likely to think this man is carrying his own fussy baby.
That's true, but most people aren't likely to assume it's a kidnapping, either.

IMO

cluciano63
10-21-2011, 10:33 AM
If there was a man carrying a baby, perhaps it was a person who was taking Lisa on behalf of the family? As in an accomplice?

I am having trouble with media indicating that LE "discounted" these "sightings" in any case. Perhaps they ruled the out, which is not the same thing. Some people seem to have no trouble saying that the media distorts what the family says; perhaps they do the same to LE, if it makes a better headline?

frankie069
10-21-2011, 10:34 AM
There are two reasons, 1 being the man could have been carrying his own fussy baby to try and get him/her to sleep, or just going for a walk with his baby for fresh air. 2 is that people hesitate to phone the police because they assume it's a variation of number 1.

IMO

An unclothed white baby with a black man in the middle of the night ( I might add, I am only stating the color because that is what was being said but I dont care what the colors are) when it is 45 degree's out shall a fussy baby make and warrant a call to the police. You dont walk down the block in the cold with your child who is fussy in the middle of the night. I am not buying these stories.. I keep saying I hope I am proved wrong but I dont think I will. The only way I will believe this if it were DB who had this person take Lisa away... Her story changing non stop and her not wanting to help find Lisa has my radar going and she is involved in Lisa's disappearance. IMHO

Patty G
10-21-2011, 10:35 AM
Anyone have the link to the article indicating this man is black?

Melanie
10-21-2011, 10:35 AM
It absolutely could be false, eye witness accounts are notoriously weak.

Yup. Remember the oldish couple who swore up and down that Laci was out walking her dog? We know how that panned out :(

MOO

Mel

She was one of three people in the Petersons' neighborhood who believed they had seen a pregnant Laci Peterson alive and well hours after police say she was murdered by her husband.

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 10:36 AM
BBM
Especially if the man is a black man in a predominantly white neighborhood!

Is it a predominantly white neighborhood? The one sighting was miles away, and the earlier reported sighting was on a perpendicular street. Kansas City is 30% Black.

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 10:37 AM
An unclothed white baby with a black man in the middle of the night ( I might add, I am only stating the color because that is what was being said but I dont care what the colors are) when it is 45 degree's out shall a fussy baby make and warrant a call to the police. You dont walk down the block in the cold with your child who is fussy in the middle of the night. I am not buying these stories.. I keep saying I hope I am proved wrong but I dont think I will. The only way I will believe this if it were DB who had this person take Lisa away... Her story changing non stop and her not wanting to help find Lisa has my radar going and she is involved in Lisa's disappearance. IMHO
I certainly wouldn't, but people do all kinds of dumb things, like get plastered with 3 sleeping children in the house.

But it's probably moot anyway, because I think the eyewitnesses were simply mistaken.

frankie069
10-21-2011, 10:38 AM
You've got those two things turned around. They stopped cooperating because LE was telling her, flat out, that she had killed baby Lisa. Over and over and over and over for hours.

I dont buy it Jenna.. I will take the word of LE in this case before I take the word of DB. Of course they are going to question her in a possibly not so nice manner. Normal in these cases, deal with it. Your kid is missing. They could have cut off body parts from me and I still wouldnt have stopped talking to them. Sorry, I dont buy it. That is not an excuse to stop looking for your daughter, stopping your talks with the police and making deals with the media..

I want to know what happened to the money that this family raised through the sale of all those t-<modsnip> and their Fb account and regular online account asking for money. Those things need to be done in a legal way otherwise no one knows how much money they collected as is the case now.. Fraud maybe.. Money problems... I think that needs to be checked into..

djm41
10-21-2011, 10:40 AM
There are two reasons, 1 being the man could have been carrying his own fussy baby to try and get him/her to sleep, or just going for a walk with his baby for fresh air. 2 is that people hesitate to phone the police because they assume it's a variation of number 1.

IMO

I am with Frankie on this one. I might have considered he was walking to calm a fussy baby, but I would have said something casual to him and get an idea what was going on. I have a habit of walking up to people to admire babies when nothing suspicious is going on, so asking if he was having a problem and offering some advice wouldn't be a problem for me at all.

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 10:41 AM
]I dont buy it Jenna.. I will take the word of LE in this case before I take the word of DB[/B]. Of course they are going to question her in a possibly not so nice manner. Normal in these cases, deal with it. Your kid is missing. They could have cut off body parts from me and I still wouldnt have stopped talking to them. Sorry, I dont buy it. That is not an excuse to stop looking for your daughter, stopping your talks with the police and making deals with the media..

I want to know what happened to the money that this family raised through the sale of all those t-shits and their Fb account and regular online account asking for money. Those things need to be done in a legal way otherwise no one knows how much money they collected as is the case now.. Fraud maybe.. Money problems... I think that needs to be checked into..

Considering LE has made no comment whatsoever about the nature of her interrogation, whether or not they accused her, whether or not she passed (or even took) a LDT, what word of LE are you believing over Deborah? LE has been mute.

Whocanitbenow
10-21-2011, 10:41 AM
LOL.. Feel free to disagree with me.. My point is just that it is completely possible. They were out there all day yesterday, They did everything they could to that house. I think they are seeing something now that leads them closer to IDI.

What if they took that carpet because it has something that says.. Someone else may have been in that house on it. They did not take if for blood, Or cut the pieces affected, They took the whole darn thing...

This leads me to believe that something yesterday switched them over to the IDI theory a little more. If they found anything in that home that could be evidence against DB I think she would be in jail this am.

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 10:42 AM
I am with Frankie on this one. I might have considered he was walking to calm a fussy baby, but I would have said something casual to him and get an idea what was going on. I have a habit of walking up to people to admire babies when nothing suspicious is going on, so asking if he was having a problem and offering some advice wouldn't be a problem for me at all.
Me too, but sadly, a lot of people wouldn't. Heck, the eyewitness didn't.

IMO

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 10:44 AM
I am with Frankie on this one. I might have considered he was walking to calm a fussy baby, but I would have said something casual to him and get an idea what was going on. I have a habit of walking up to people to admire babies when nothing suspicious is going on, so asking if he was having a problem and offering some advice wouldn't be a problem for me at all.

You would have approached a man who was walking alone in the wee hours of the night with a baby, who actually avoided you by walking away from the road toward a house as you slowed your car and approached? I don't see how you could say something "casual" to someone in that case. It's not like he's standing behind you in the grocery store line. He's walking down the street, and then as you approach, avoiding contact.

momtective
10-21-2011, 10:45 AM
Anyone have the link to the article indicating this man is black?


Although he had no clues, one neighbor reportedly told police about seeing an African-American individual carrying a baby up the street around midnight, only hours before Lisa, (whose birthday on Nov. 11 would now make her 11 months old) was reported missing.

Was that information important? Some neighbors later heard that it was discounted and had turned out to be nothing. Since that day, they feel in limbo, lost, unsure and uneasy, wanting to support and believe the best of their neighbors, but not knowing what to believe.



Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/14/3208365/neighborhoods-trust-stability.html

Also, I don't know if the neighborhood is predominantly white or not...I should have said "if" the neighborhood is predominantly white.

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 10:46 AM
LOL.. Feel free to disagree with me.. My point is just that it is completely possible. They were out there all day yesterday, They did everything they could to that house. I think they are seeing something now that leads them closer to IDI.

What if they took that carpet because it has something that says.. Someone else may have been in that house on it. They did not take if for blood, Or cut the pieces affected, They took the whole darn thing...

This leads me to believe that something yesterday switched them over to the IDI theory a little more. If they found anything in that home that could be evidence against DB I think she would be in jail this am.
IDK, they have to process what they collected, so while I'm on the fence, I don't think an arrest would happen today. Of course, I'm usually the most wrong in all of Wrongerton, so...

IMO

Patty G
10-21-2011, 10:46 AM
Also, I don't know if the neighborhood is predominantly white or not...I should have said "if" the neighborhood is predominantly white.

Link doesn't work! :(

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 10:48 AM
You would have approached a man who was walking alone in the wee hours of the night with a baby, who actually avoided you by walking away from the road toward a house as you slowed your car and approached? I don't see how you could say something "casual" to someone in that case. It's not like he's standing behind you in the grocery store line. He's walking down the street, and then as you approach, avoiding contact.
I'd say something if I didn't recocnise him; his race wouldn't play into it. If I saw someone I didn't know carrying a baby I do know down the road, I'd say hello real friendly like.

momtective
10-21-2011, 10:50 AM
Link doesn't work! :(

Try this one http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/14/3208365/neighborhoods-trust-stability.html

frankie069
10-21-2011, 10:50 AM
Considering LE has made no comment whatsoever about the nature of her interrogation, whether or not they accused her, whether or not she passed (or even took) a LDT, what word of LE are you believing over Deborah? LE has been mute.

As Le should be mute... Do you think they are going to let things about this case out.. These things that they are mute over are what is going to catch whoever did this to Lisa. They let things out in the public they lost their secrecy that only the person of interest will know. And its DB's own words that have formed my opinion. Not the media itself or anything else but her own words. Right from the horses mouth is where I am making my opinions from. DB has herself let out tons of damning information about herself.

andalso
10-21-2011, 10:52 AM
The mind is a funny thing....

Do you know I heard the media helicopters that the locals were hearing on here the other day.

Do you now I live in upstate NY.

Clearly, I did not hear those helicopters, but coincidentally, a chopper flew over my house while you all were discussing it here and I had to force myself to remember that I was not hearing that same chopper as you all.

My point is, the mind plays tricks on us sometimes.... maybe these neighbors saw something but with all the other info they know/have heard... their minds are playing tricks on them as to what they actually saw. (Giving them benefit of the doubt, for now...)

Jacie Estes
10-21-2011, 10:53 AM
I dont buy it Jenna.. I will take the word of LE in this case before I take the word of DB. Of course they are going to question her in a possibly not so nice manner. Normal in these cases, deal with it. Your kid is missing. They could have cut off body parts from me and I still wouldnt have stopped talking to them. Sorry, I dont buy it. That is not an excuse to stop looking for your daughter, stopping your talks with the police and making deals with the media..

I want to know what happened to the money that this family raised through the sale of all those [t-shiRts] and their Fb account and regular online account asking for money. Those things need to be done in a legal way otherwise no one knows how much money they collected as is the case now.. Fraud maybe.. Money problems... I think that needs to be checked into..

BBM I added an R for you. :floorlaugh:

mck16
10-21-2011, 10:54 AM
I'd say something if I didn't recocnise him; his race wouldn't play into it. If I saw someone I didn't know carrying a baby I do know down the road, I'd say hello real friendly like.

It should be simple enough to find out if there is a family in the neighborhood that has a black man and a white baby living there. Has this been mentioned or checked out? tia

frankie069
10-21-2011, 10:54 AM
You would have approached a man who was walking alone in the wee hours of the night with a baby, who actually avoided you by walking away from the road toward a house as you slowed your car and approached? I don't see how you could say something "casual" to someone in that case. It's not like he's standing behind you in the grocery store line. He's walking down the street, and then as you approach, avoiding contact.

Oh I certainly would have without a doubt. In the middle of the night with an unclothed baby in the cold.. Yes I would have approached that person and called the police just in case, even not knowing about the Lisa case. I have had instances where there have been groups of kids outside in the wee hours of the night and my butt was outside my door watching them to make sure there wasnt going to be a fight or something, I have no problem getting involved at all. I would rather be safe than sorry.

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 10:54 AM
As Le should be mute... Do you think they are going to let things about this case out.. These things that they are mute over are what is going to catch whoever did this to Lisa. They let things out in the public they lost their secrecy that only the person of interest will know. And its DB's own words that have formed my opinion. Not the media itself or anything else but her own words. Right from the horses mouth is where I am making my opinions from. DB has herself let out tons of damning information about herself.

Right, but my point is, why did you state you believe LE's version of the events over Deborah's? They haven't given their version of the events. Only Deborah has.

Donjeta
10-21-2011, 10:54 AM
You would have approached a man who was walking alone in the wee hours of the night with a baby, who actually avoided you by walking away from the road toward a house as you slowed your car and approached? I don't see how you could say something "casual" to someone in that case. It's not like he's standing behind you in the grocery store line. He's walking down the street, and then as you approach, avoiding contact.

I'm not sure if I'd dare to approach a strangely behaving stranger in the middle of the night but I think if he had a naked baby with him at 49 degrees weather my instinct would be to call the police and then try to follow them from a discreet distance to see where they're going.

I don't think my mind would immediately leap to an abduction but it's clear that the baby is going to be cold and the stranger might not be sober or all there and the baby not safe with him.

momtective
10-21-2011, 10:54 AM
"Although he had no clues, one neighbor reportedly told police about seeing an African-American individual carrying a baby up the street around midnight"

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/14...#ixzz1asRf3n6T


I copied this from a past post. I'm not sure if the link still works.


ETA: new link that works http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/14/3208365/neighborhoods-trust-stability.html

Bumping this from page 1 because now I'm not seeing mention in the working link of an African American man...but I remember seeing it mentioned early on in this case. Could this have been reporter error?

frankie069
10-21-2011, 10:55 AM
BBM I added an R for you. :floorlaugh:

OH NO.. Really.. I have to stop typing so fast and proof read.. My apologies to the WS staff... Ugh... That is too funny..

Amster
10-21-2011, 10:55 AM
How many sightings were there of Caylee?? Unfortunately, she was lying in the woods, rotting. But, LE had to check out every one of those sightings. When they said the sightings were discounted....they were correct.

krimekat
10-21-2011, 10:56 AM
You would have approached a man who was walking alone in the wee hours of the night with a baby, who actually avoided you by walking away from the road toward a house as you slowed your car and approached? I don't see how you could say something "casual" to someone in that case. It's not like he's standing behind you in the grocery store line. He's walking down the street, and then as you approach, avoiding contact.

Right, this was NOT a causal sighting. And note Missouri is a concealed weapon State. I don't approach anyone at night unless I know them (heck, I am rarely out late night). But I would (and do) call LE & report weirdness around my StL City neighborhood, especially when it's occurring past midnight (nothing good happens when out after midnight my dad used to tell us).

My concern with LEs silence & MSM reporting is how contradictory they are. I'm unsure if MSM reports are helping or hindering the investigation.

:fence:
“Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people.”

mck16
10-21-2011, 10:56 AM
Right, but my point is, why did you state you believe LE's version of the events over Deborah's? They haven't given their version of the events. Only Deborah has.

You are correct. They have not even commented on the LDT test DB said they told her she failed. They have not commented on anything except that they are not cooperating with them. So, what is the evidense of that? How are they not cooperating? The LE needs to speak up about something/anything in my opinion.

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 10:57 AM
It should be simple enough to find out if there is a family in the neighborhood that has a black man and a white baby living there. Has this been mentioned or checked out? tia
I have no idea. I tend to think LE checked out the first sighting, and getting a perfectly innocent explanation, they discounted it as having anything to do with Lisa.

The second "sighting" I think is just an honest mistake.

IMO

jjenny
10-21-2011, 10:57 AM
How many sightings were there of Caylee?? Unfortunately, she was lying in the woods, rotting. But, LE had to check out every one of those sightings. When they said the sightings were discounted....they were correct.

Lacy Peterson too. There even was a cashier who claimed she saw "Laci" in a supermarket.
In this case there already have been a number of "Lisa" sightings, even in CA.

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 10:57 AM
Bumping this from page 1 because now I'm not seeing mention in the working link of an African American man...but I remember seeing it mentioned early on in this case. Could this have been reporter error?

It's in the link. Do a "find" for African, and you'll see it. About halfway through the article.

frankie069
10-21-2011, 10:58 AM
Right, but my point is, why did you state you believe LE's version of the events over Deborah's? They haven't given their version of the events. Only Deborah has.

LE cannot give any information. Do you think when someone is shot, they give the make of the gun, no, only the killer would know that, so they keep that to themselves so when they find the killer or the shooter they have that information that wasnt made public. They CANNOT make things public. Its frustrating to us but prosecution wise, they cant. I dont need LE's version when I have DB's. LE is keeping quiet as they should, DB should have taken lessons from them. I have faith in the police in this case and until they give me reason not to have faith in them I will continue to.. They know their job and what they can release.

MamaK
10-21-2011, 10:58 AM
Oh I certainly would have without a doubt. In the middle of the night with an unclothed baby in the cold.. Yes I would have approached that person and called the police just in case, even not knowing about the Lisa case. I have had instances where there have been groups of kids outside in the wee hours of the night and my butt was outside my door watching them to make sure there wasnt going to be a fight or something, I have no problem getting involved at all. I would rather be safe than sorry.

This is completely MOO so take it or leave it. I really think that one needs to be careful when making a definitive decision in their mind whether someone is guilty or innocent based on media interviews. DB and JI are NOT media savvy individuals. The media can and will spin a person's own statements in whatever way will be the most sensational for them. I can guarantee that if you were bestfriends with DB and wanted to tell the media some information about DB's character, they would slice and dice that interview until you made her out to be the devil. MOO :twocents: That's why I'm sitting on this fence until I hear some actual facts. All we know definitevely is that a baby is missing. :fence:

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 10:58 AM
Lacy Peterson too. There even was a cashier who claimed she saw "Laci" in a supermarket.
In this case there already have been a number of "Lisa" sightings, even in CA.

But those WERE all real people. I don't think either witness here is claiming that it was Baby Lisa, rather, a man carrying a baby similar to Baby Lisa.

Like the cashier saw a woman who looked similar to Laci.

Jacie Estes
10-21-2011, 10:59 AM
OH NO.. Really.. I have to stop typing so fast and proof read.. My apologies to the WS staff... Ugh... That is too funny..

no prob, I'm always going back to edit for spelling.

cluciano63
10-21-2011, 10:59 AM
Right, but my point is, why did you state you believe LE's version of the events over Deborah's? They haven't given their version of the events. Only Deborah has.

I would believe LE's version of anything they might care to say, before I would believe this particular woman at this point, seeing how it appears she had prevaricated to some degree already, claims to have been drunk, and seems to want to preempt the police by her pronouncements about failing LE test, about being drunk, about her interrogation, etc. I don't know if she is guilty of doing anything to her baby, but I don't get waves of honesty and unfettered cooperation coming from her. JMOJMOJMOJMO

jjenny
10-21-2011, 10:59 AM
But those WERE all real people. I don't think either witness is claiming here that it was Baby Lisa, rather, a man carrying a baby similar to Baby Lisa.

Like the cashier saw a woman who looked similar to Laci.

That cashier had a very funky story to tell.

Patty G
10-21-2011, 11:00 AM
Try this one http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/14/3208365/neighborhoods-trust-stability.html

Thank you.

Now, the question of the day is: "is this the same neighbor whose husband spotted a man walking with a baby around midnight?"

In this article she never mentions the race of the individual.
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/neighbor-says-husband-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper#ixzz1bQdcZ3g2

mck16
10-21-2011, 11:01 AM
This is completely MOO so take it or leave it. I really think that one needs to be careful when making a definitive decision in their mind whether someone is guilty or innocent based on media interviews. DB and JI are NOT media savvy individuals. The media can and will spin a person's own statements in whatever way will be the most sensational for them. I can guarantee that if you were bestfriends with DB and wanted to tell the media some information about DB's character, they would slice and dice that interview until you made her out to be the devil. MOO :twocents: That's why I'm sitting on this fence until I hear some actual facts. All we know definitevely is that a baby is missing. :fence:

Amen Sista!!!! jmo

MamaK
10-21-2011, 11:01 AM
LE cannot give any information. Do you think when someone is shot, they give the make of the gun, no, only the killer would know that, so they keep that to themselves so when they find the killer or the shooter they have that information that wasnt made public. They CANNOT make things public. Its frustrating to us but prosecution wise, they cant. I dont need LE's version when I have DB's. LE is keeping quiet as they should, DB should have taken lessons from them. I have faith in the police in this case and until they give me reason not to have faith in them I will continue to.. They know their job and what they can release.

somehow I quoted the wrong thing in my previous post. I meant to quote this post. Sorry and I must've hit the wrong button. duh!

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 11:02 AM
LE cannot give any information. Do you think when someone is shot, they give the make of the gun, no, only the killer would know that, so they keep that to themselves so when they find the killer or the shooter they have that information that wasnt made public. They CANNOT make things public. Its frustrating to us but prosecution wise, they cant. I dont need LE's version when I have DB's. LE is keeping quiet as they should, DB should have taken lessons from them. I have faith in the police in this case and until they give me reason not to have faith in them I will continue to.. They know their job and what they can release.

I'm not trying to pick an argument, or disagree that it's fine for LE to be mute.

I'm pointing out, and will stop here because this has gone on too many posts, that you say you believe LE over Deborah. I'm just pointing out, I promise for the last time because somehow we aren't communicating, that you have no basis to know what LE's version of the events is, only Deborahs. So their versions aren't in disagreement, there in fact is no way to know what LE believes about what occurred in the interrogation.

You could say, of course, I think Deborah's lying because it sounds to me that what she's saying can't be true.

But we all know it IS common police tactic. I guess you can believe this common police tactic wasn't used here.

IMHO.

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 11:04 AM
This is completely MOO so take it or leave it. I really think that one needs to be careful when making a definitive decision in their mind whether someone is guilty or innocent based on media interviews. DB and JI are NOT media savvy individuals. The media can and will spin a person's own statements in whatever way will be the most sensational for them. I can guarantee that if you were bestfriends with DB and wanted to tell the media some information about DB's character, they would slice and dice that interview until you made her out to be the devil. MOO :twocents: That's why I'm sitting on this fence until I hear some actual facts. All we know definitevely is that a baby is missing. :fence:
This is true, but I've heard and seen enough of DB to know the media isn't having to spin much. DB is constantly shoving her foot into her mouth knee deep. Not that it makes her guilty, just saying she's making herself look bad - the media has an easy job of it, just put a microphone under her nose.

IMO

krimekat
10-21-2011, 11:04 AM
Up the block on North Chelsea, four policemen and two FBI agents searched every nook of the home and yard where Robert and Anna Lee Brizendine, both 83, have lived for 54 years.

“I have never, ever, ever, ever seen the police being so thorough, trying so hard,” Anna Lee Brizendine said.

His home searched too, Rusher said, “I welcomed it. They asked me had I seen anyone different in the neighborhood, any new people, any clues I thought would help. Anything.”

Although he had no clues, one neighbor reportedly told police about seeing an African-American individual carrying a baby up the street around midnight, only hours before Lisa, (whose birthday on Nov. 11 would now make her 11 months old) was reported missing.


Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/14/3208365/neighborhoods-trust-stability.html#ixzz1bQegRaWL

krimekat
10-21-2011, 11:08 AM
no prob, I'm always going back to edit for spelling.

and there is always the Preview Post button that is handy. I make it a point to Preview, re-read my post, and then Submit Reply. This also assists in determining what links/words are allowed or not.

Patty G
10-21-2011, 11:08 AM
IMO, and FWIW, the story in MSM about seeing an black male with a baby was a stretch. If this neighbor is the same woman who claims her husband saw a man with a baby, she would have clearly indicated a "black male carrying a white baby". Something is really off with the reporting of that story.

The second sighting with MT, he doesn't even mention a race, nor did the reporter ask him about the race of the male carrying a baby. These reporters need to ask better questions especially since there was mention of a black male carrying a baby. :banghead:

Abby Normal
10-21-2011, 11:09 AM
Oh I certainly would have without a doubt. In the middle of the night with an unclothed baby in the cold.. Yes I would have approached that person and called the police just in case, even not knowing about the Lisa case. I have had instances where there have been groups of kids outside in the wee hours of the night and my butt was outside my door watching them to make sure there wasnt going to be a fight or something, I have no problem getting involved at all. I would rather be safe than sorry.

See, it's unlikely that I would stop my car in the middle of the night and approach a man I didn't know who was on foot. And I would assume someone with a baby was simply carrying their baby. If we were both walking, I'd be way more likely to say something.

Now maybe if I had one of my kids small blankets in the car and I knew it was cold and I thought maybe the man was homeless or in a tough situation- I would hand them a blanket and ask if I can call anyone for them. I did that once for a man with a baby in the rain (except I gave him an umbrella, not a blanket). But in my head, it would never even occur to me to question if the baby was kidnapped. I would think homeless/car broke down/looking for something/car-jacking/etc

krimekat
10-21-2011, 11:09 AM
This is completely MOO so take it or leave it. I really think that one needs to be careful when making a definitive decision in their mind whether someone is guilty or innocent based on media interviews. DB and JI are NOT media savvy individuals. The media can and will spin a person's own statements in whatever way will be the most sensational for them. I can guarantee that if you were bestfriends with DB and wanted to tell the media some information about DB's character, they would slice and dice that interview until you made her out to be the devil. MOO :twocents: That's why I'm sitting on this fence until I hear some actual facts. All we know definitevely is that a baby is missing. :fence:

:clap:

Thanks for this reminder . . . unless we are walking in their shoes, we don't know how we would react. Keeps me sitting on this fence!

momtective
10-21-2011, 11:10 AM
Thank you.

Now, the question of the day is: "is this the same neighbor whose husband spotted a man walking with a baby around midnight?"

In this article she never mentions the race of the individual.
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/neighbor-says-husband-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper#ixzz1bQdcZ3g2


Although he had no clues, one neighbor reportedly told police about seeing an African-American individual carrying a baby up the street around midnight, only hours before Lisa, (whose birthday on Nov. 11 would now make her 11 months old) was reported missing.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/14/3208365/neighborhoods-trust-stability.html#ixzz1bQfawpik


About a 3rd of the way down the page Patty...use the "find" option on your computer and type in "although" and it will take you straight to it.

Donjeta
10-21-2011, 11:11 AM
A true story about eyewitnesses:

A relative of mine was in a traffic accident. A reporter got the story from an eyewitness. The article said a youth with a motorcycle collided with a car and was not seriously injured.
They got the collision with a car right. Serious injuries - well, I suppose it's a matter of definition. He had broken his hip, a leg and a vertebra and had a concussion but was not in mortal danger. He is almost in his fifties and was driving a scooter.

momtective
10-21-2011, 11:13 AM
IMO, and FWIW, the story in MSM about seeing an black male with a baby was a stretch. If this neighbor is the same woman who claims her husband saw a man with a baby, she would have clearly indicated a "black male carrying a white baby". Something is really off with the reporting of that story.

The second sighting with MT, he doesn't even mention a race, nor did the reporter ask him about the race of the male carrying a baby. These reporters need to ask better questions especially since there was mention of a black male carrying a baby. :banghead:

They also need to get it straight if the man was going to work, coming home from work, or maybe even playing games on facebook...just sayin':wink:

frankie069
10-21-2011, 11:14 AM
I'm not trying to pick an argument, or disagree that it's fine for LE to be mute.

I'm pointing out, and will stop here because this has gone on too many posts, that you say you believe LE over Deborah. I'm just pointing out, I promise for the last time because somehow we aren't communicating, that you have no basis to know what LE's version of the events is, only Deborahs. So their versions aren't in disagreement, there in fact is no way to know what LE believes about what occurred in the interrogation.

You could say, of course, I think Deborah's lying because it sounds to me that what she's saying can't be true.

But we all know it IS common police tactic. I guess you can believe this common police tactic wasn't used here.

IMHO.

I really do understand what you are saying but I dont have to know what LE thinks or found or anything like that because right now it isnt my business. I do though know what DB and JI have said because they opened their mouths. I have formed an "opinion" of them because of this. Whether my opinion is guilt or innocence I have formed that due to her getting on TV and changing her stories 200 times and then coming out with things that were never told before. She is incriminating herself, she doesnt need me to do that for her.

I also agree it is a common police tactic and it should be. See Mark Klaas's statements on this case and how he went through the same thing and how he said he would do it all over again. My point is when your child is missing you dont boo hoo yourself into a corner and hide, you allow LE to do their job whether you like it or not and let them move on and clear you. If you lie to the police or omit information it doesnt look good. And why would you even do that when you are supposedly saying your child was kidnapped. I will say this now, if Lisa is found alive or found to be kidnapped DB still needs to get herself some help.

gladiatorqueen
10-21-2011, 11:15 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/21/witnesses-report-seeing-man-carry-baby-resembling-missing-10-month-old-lisa/

Abby Normal
10-21-2011, 11:16 AM
IMO, and FWIW, the story in MSM about seeing an black male with a baby was a stretch. If this neighbor is the same woman who claims her husband saw a man with a baby, she would have clearly indicated a "black male carrying a white baby". Something is really off with the reporting of that story.

The second sighting with MT, he doesn't even mention a race, nor did the reporter ask him about the race of the male carrying a baby. These reporters need to ask better questions especially since there was mention of a black male carrying a baby. :banghead:

yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the reporting- something made the reporter think that by mistake. Just like the "friend" reporter said their kids played together when anyone following the case should have known that little factoid was off. Some of the reporters following it are just shoving the information they think they have out without a lot of review.

krimekat
10-21-2011, 11:17 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/21/witnesses-report-seeing-man-carry-baby-resembling-missing-10-month-old-lisa/

Three Kansas City residents said Friday that they saw a suspicious man walking the streets with an infant on the night that 11-month-old Lisa Irwin disappeared.

1) Motorcycle Guy headed home around 4a

2) Guy who saw the walker around Midnight (his wife's been speaking for him)

3) Another female witness interviewed four times since her sighting (no details)

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 11:18 AM
I really do understand what you are saying but I dont have to know what LE thinks or found or anything like that because right now it isnt my business. I do though know what DB and JI have said because they opened their mouths. I have formed an "opinion" of them because of this. Whether my opinion is guilt or innocence I have formed that due to her getting on TV and changing her stories 200 times and then coming out with things that were never told before. She is incriminating herself, she doesnt need me to do that for her.

I also agree it is a common police tactic and it should be. See Mark Klaas's statements on this case and how he went through the same thing and how he said he would do it all over again. My point is when your child is missing you dont boo hoo yourself into a corner and hide, you allow LE to do their job whether you like it or not and let them move on and clear you. If you lie to the police or omit information it doesnt look good. And why would you even do that when you are supposedly saying your child was kidnapped. I will say this now, if Lisa is found alive or found to be kidnapped DB still needs to get herself some help.
Did DB or JI do this? I don't recall LE saying either one of them lied or omitted anything.

Donjeta
10-21-2011, 11:20 AM
I'm not trying to pick an argument, or disagree that it's fine for LE to be mute.

I'm pointing out, and will stop here because this has gone on too many posts, that you say you believe LE over Deborah. I'm just pointing out, I promise for the last time because somehow we aren't communicating, that you have no basis to know what LE's version of the events is, only Deborahs. So their versions aren't in disagreement, there in fact is no way to know what LE believes about what occurred in the interrogation.

You could say, of course, I think Deborah's lying because it sounds to me that what she's saying can't be true.

But we all know it IS common police tactic. I guess you can believe this common police tactic wasn't used here.

IMHO.

IMO it's possible the police were unkind to her but a missing baby is a serious thing and I don't think you can really expect anything else. So you call 911 to inform that your baby has been stolen, the police turn up and find out that the person who had the sole responsibility for the baby the night of disappearance is drunk. Of course they're going to ask her if she killed the baby, play good cops, bad cops, use psychological tactics and see if they could solve the case the easy way.

I'm sure it feels awful if you had nothing to do with it but it is what it is. I'm with Mark Klaas here. If you didn't do it you cooperate and try your best so they can clear your name and go on to find the real perpetrator. The whining doesn't help.

Donjeta
10-21-2011, 11:23 AM
Did DB or JI do this? I don't recall LE saying either one of them lied or omitted anything.

We have seen her lying on TV at least, re: the changing timelines. Maybe she told LE something else but I'm sure they were interested to see the story change in between different interviews.

Cazzie
10-21-2011, 11:24 AM
I'd say something if I didn't recocnise him; his race wouldn't play into it. If I saw someone I didn't know carrying a baby I do know down the road, I'd say hello real friendly like.
From your car, at midnight (or 4am)?

Dr.Fessel
10-21-2011, 11:24 AM
IMO, and FWIW, the story in MSM about seeing an black male with a baby was a stretch. If this neighbor is the same woman who claims her husband saw a man with a baby, she would have clearly indicated a "black male carrying a white baby". Something is really off with the reporting of that story.

The second sighting with MT, he doesn't even mention a race, nor did the reporter ask him about the race of the male carrying a baby. These reporters need to ask better questions especially since there was mention of a black male carrying a baby. :banghead:

BBM

Possibility's

1. Reporter did ask better questions and the answers would rule out the news. Example: Motorcycle guy says guy was black and so was the baby. Oops, slow news day but I need a story so let's just cut that out.

2. LE asked these people to go in front of cameras and only answer certain questions and those ground rules.

3. Stanton is behind this somehow.

frankie069
10-21-2011, 11:27 AM
Did DB or JI do this? I don't recall LE saying either one of them lied or omitted anything.

Yes, she lied about the time she put Lisa down, the police confirmed that by saying they have 4 additional hours they have to make up for now. She omitted that she possibly blacked out as well. Those are two things right there that are huge..

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 11:28 AM
We have seen her lying on TV at least, re: the changing timelines. Maybe she told LE something else but I'm sure they were interested to see the story change in between different interviews.
Yeah, but she could have told LE all that from the start, even the changing time lime, but trickled it out to the media bit by bit, thinking it somehow made her seem more innocent. I have no way of knowing what she said to LE. What I do know is I've never seen anyone be so glib about their kidnapped baby since Casey Anthony.

IMO

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 11:30 AM
From your car, at midnight (or 4am)?
Yes, but I live in a sleepy azz village in Switzerland, and there's no violent crimes to speak of, so I'm more lax than I would be if I lived, in say, Italy.

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 11:32 AM
Yes, she lied about the time she put Lisa down, the police confirmed that by saying they have 4 additional hours they have to make up for now. She omitted that she possibly blacked out as well. Those are two things right there that are huge..
I see, thanks. I must have missed it when LE said DB lied and omitted information.

Patty G
10-21-2011, 11:33 AM
Three Kansas City residents said Friday that they saw a suspicious man walking the streets with an infant on the night that 11-month-old Lisa Irwin disappeared.

1) Motorcycle Guy headed home around 4a

2) Guy who saw the walker around Midnight (his wife's been speaking for him)

3) Another female witness interviewed four times since her sighting (no details)

I'm thinking the two other witness were the "husband and wife" and that the wife was interview four times.

Dr.Fessel
10-21-2011, 11:36 AM
Reporter says police are discounting the story this morning of a man being seen with a baby near the home.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44987184#44987184

Patty G
10-21-2011, 11:36 AM
IMO, there is no way in heck, with the media all over this case that it took MT over a week to connect the dots.

LancelotLink
10-21-2011, 11:38 AM
I'm having issues with this news report. First, GMA or ABC state there are three eye witnesses. I seem to recall and correct me if I am mistaken, the wife only heard what her husband said he saw and she is not an eye witness.

Second. If, and that is a BIG if this is somehow the same guy walking with a baby from 12 AM to an intersection at 4AM, where was he walking to and how long did he have to walk to the Irwin home? Or was he already there partying or hanging out, somewhere in the neighbrhood without a car...that;s four hours of walking with a baby...hinky...

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m635/lancelotlink2/Clipboard01mapofsightings-1.jpg

Cazzie
10-21-2011, 11:38 AM
Yes, but I live in a sleepy azz village in Switzerland, and there's no violent crimes to speak of, so I'm more lax then I would be if I lived, in say, Italy.
JMO, but many here in the U.S. would be very much more likely to not make a personal confrontation at that time of nite (after dark, no one else around) but call LE. Much might depend on whether the witness is frail/female and alone, etc..

And sadly, many here would not even call LE becuz they don't want to "get involved" for whatever reasons.

Dr.Fessel
10-21-2011, 11:39 AM
So do we have 3 sets of people who saw this man and baby?

First one woman said husband came home and told her about it and asked her if they should call the police.

Second one the motorcycle guy.

Third one the lady who says her and her husband saw the baby.

Patty G
10-21-2011, 11:40 AM
Don't forget to put new MSM article in the Media Thread for reference. :)

Media links~NO DISCUSSION PLEASE - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Patty G
10-21-2011, 11:40 AM
So do we have 3 sets of people who saw this man and baby?

First one woman said husband came home and told her about it and asked her if they should call the police.

Second one the motorcycle guy.

Third one the lady who says her and her husband saw the baby.

Isn't First and Third same one?

Bodhi
10-21-2011, 11:41 AM
If this has already been discussed, I'm sorry. I'm trying to catch up.

Re the baby reported as only wearing a diaper, the baby could easily have on the purple shorts/short pajama bottoms and white top that DB stated. One person described seeing the baby's leg with no clothing. When a baby is being carried, knit shorts would pull up easily, depending on the position of the baby's leg and the adult's arms. And the top of the baby's thigh would be in darker shadow because of the adult's arms. And a white top could easily look like the baby wasn't wearing a top.

I'm not saying the description in either sighting is accurate or described accurately in the media. I'm just saying in a quick encounter at night, it could easily appear a baby dressed as DB stated was not wearing clothes.

frankie069
10-21-2011, 11:42 AM
JMO, but many here in the U.S. would be very much more likely to not make a personal confrontation at that time of nite (after dark, no one else around) but call LE. Much might depend on whether the witness is frail/female and alone, etc..

And sadly, many here would not even call LE becuz they don't want to "get involved" for whatever reasons.

I agree and that is sad.. I have always myself been one to get involved though. I know myself and know that I would have stopped and called the police. what if this person was homeless and this child had no clothes, what if the were in a car accident or a mugging and were injured and lost their wits about them. Could be something so innocent yet it could be something bad too. I would have called the police and asked if they needed help, male or female.

HatesSociopaths
10-21-2011, 11:42 AM
So do we have 3 sets of people who saw this man and baby?

First one woman said husband came home and told her about it and asked her if they should call the police.

Second one the motorcycle guy.

Third one the lady who says her and her husband saw the baby.


Did the motorcycle guy say the man was black because I believe the other sighting of "this man" was such. I have not seen the third one you mention? (Is there a link handy anyone?)

Cazzie
10-21-2011, 11:44 AM
IMO, there is no way in heck, with the media all over this case that it took MT over a week to connect the dots.
I disagree...as someone else posted upthread, it is really not uncommon that someone might not be "up on the latest news", online or off.

Even I go for spells where I avoid the news online or off (it's usually bad), or just get ultra-busy with RL. Some people travel...some people don't even have a TV or Internet. Many people don't even discuss the news in person, in my experience.

JMO...altho I am wary of people looking for their 15 minutes of fame and other reasons why there could be false witness reports.

justathought
10-21-2011, 11:44 AM
When one of the Baton Rouge serial killers was operating, LE discounted eye witness testimony of folks in the area who said they saw a strange black man in the area where Murray Pace was subsequently found murdered. Eventually, a Florida DNA research lab was able to determine race with a degree of accuracy. Voila! Her killer was African American. Eventually, after a few more murders, LE was at intersections with the sketch that had been circulating privately for awhile. Derrick Todd Lee was arrested and convicted of her murder. He is African American. He is believed to be the serial killer. The reason LE discounted: profilers said the guy was a white professional.

Abby Normal
10-21-2011, 11:44 AM
Three Kansas City residents said Friday that they saw a suspicious man walking the streets with an infant on the night that 11-month-old Lisa Irwin disappeared.

1) Motorcycle Guy headed home around 4a

2) Guy who saw the walker around Midnight (his wife's been speaking for him)

3) Another female witness interviewed four times since her sighting (no details)

You know, when I watched it, I got the feeling it was a different woman. But they looked "enough" alike I just assumed she did herself up or something. That makes so much more sense. So it seems there are two people in addition to the couple where only the husband saw it.

luckyme
10-21-2011, 11:46 AM
Did the motorcycle guy say the man was black because I believe the other sighting of "this man" was such. I have not seen the third one you mention? (Is there a link handy anyone?)

I think that was the neighbor guy! He also said jersey was in 20s and clean shaven. moo:innocent:

krimekat
10-21-2011, 11:48 AM
I think it's actually 3 different sightings . . . at least that is what I am understanding from the articles I have read. I get way too confused reading posts.

cluciano63
10-21-2011, 11:49 AM
Media is using the word "discounted" as though LE poo-poohed the idea of any of these "sightings", when that may not be the case at all. Many people are quick to accuse the media of twisting Mom's word, yet believe what they infer about LE?

krimekat
10-21-2011, 11:51 AM
Did the motorcycle guy say the man was black because I believe the other sighting of "this man" was such. I have not seen the third one you mention? (Is there a link handy anyone?)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Man seen carrying diaper clad baby

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 11:51 AM
Media is using the word "discounted" as though LE poo-poohed the idea of any of these "sightings", when that may not be the case at all. Many people are quick to accuse the media of twisting Mom's word, yet believe what they infer about LE?

I feel like I have a memory of LE actually saying that in a PC, using that word.

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 11:51 AM
Media is using the word "discounted" as though LE poo-poohed the idea of any of these "sightings", when that may not be the case at all. Many people are quick to accuse the media of twisting Mom's word, yet believe what they infer about LE?
I took "discounted" to mean that LE checked out the sightings and determined they had nothing to do with Lisa.

HatesSociopaths
10-21-2011, 11:51 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-eyewitnesses-convinced-sighting/story?id=14786129

Dr.Fessel
10-21-2011, 11:54 AM
Isn't First and Third same one? If they are the story has sure changed. (or it was a horrible first story news report)

Ok this is the one from today and they live 3 houses down from Lisa.

http://www.chathousenews.com/2011/10/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-eyewitnesses.html

Here is the first girl talking to reporter. If you read the story it is just the husband that sees the baby but if you listen close to the lady and the reporter on the video you hear it was both of them that saw her.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/neighbor-says-husband-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper#ixzz1bQTJXUHH

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 11:54 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-eyewitnesses-convinced-sighting/story?id=14786129
How could the eyewitness be so sure it's Lisa? At that age, I can't tell one baby from the next unless it's mine.

nursebeeme
10-21-2011, 11:54 AM
The woman said police have interviewed her four times and police say they are still looking into the possible sightings.

"That is something that we've followed up on," said Kansas City Police Department Sgt. Stacey Graves. "We've haven't discounted it and we have no reason to believe that they didn't see what they said that they saw."

Graves said investigators plan on continuing to follow up on tips and leads today.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-eyewitnesses-convinced-sighting/story?id=14786129



straight from the horse's mouth (vs a reporter)

In da Middle
10-21-2011, 11:56 AM
BBM
Especially if the man is a black man in a predominantly white neighborhood!
Huh? While this neighborhood is predominately white, it is mixed. No one race would stick out here.

Patty G
10-21-2011, 11:57 AM
If they are the story has sure changed. (or it was a horrible first story news report)

Ok this is the one from today and they live 3 houses down from Lisa.

http://www.chathousenews.com/2011/10/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-eyewitnesses.html

Here is the first girl talking to reporter. If you read the story it is just the husband that sees the baby but if you listen close to the lady and the reporter on the video you hear it was both of them that saw her.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/neighbor-says-husband-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper#ixzz1bQTJXUHH

It hurts my head to read it again. :crazy:

momtective
10-21-2011, 11:58 AM
If they are the story has sure changed. (or it was a horrible first story news report)

Ok this is the one from today and they live 3 houses down from Lisa.

http://www.chathousenews.com/2011/10/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-eyewitnesses.html

Here is the first girl talking to reporter. If you read the story it is just the husband that sees the baby but if you listen close to the lady and the reporter on the video you hear it was both of them that saw her.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/neighbor-says-husband-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper#ixzz1bQTJXUHH

They don't even live on the same street and I'm pretty sure they don't live 3 houses down either. The woman's name was mentioned in MSM.

krimekat
10-21-2011, 11:58 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-eyewitnesses-convinced-sighting/story?id=14786129



straight from the horse's mouth (vs a reporter)

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Perfect example of how sleazy Journalism is today . . . what Journalism? it's all Sensationalism (IMHO, of course).

Sometimes their grammar & punctuation is not up to snuff either !

:fence:

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 11:59 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-eyewitnesses-convinced-sighting/story?id=14786129



straight from the horse's mouth (vs a reporter)
But does LE mean they believe the sightings could have been Lisa, or they believe those people actually just saw innocent men with babies? The wording confuses my foreign brain.

In other words, I think the phrasing is intentionally open ended.

e2a: I'm sure it's perfectly clear to the natives.

Abby Normal
10-21-2011, 12:00 PM
It is a different woman. So her story didn't change, she has a different story and we don't know the exact location of her alleged sighting.

First woman whose husband allegedly sighted a man with a baby at about the 1:55 mark:
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/neighbor-says-husband-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper

Motorcycle man who allegedly saw the same, as well as the woman who claims to have seen that- she comes on about the 1:25 mark.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-eyewitnesses-speak-14785603

I thought it was the same woman just with her hair/makeup done until I started looking closely at specific facial details. And the 2nd lady has a lot more hair.

Whocanitbenow
10-21-2011, 12:00 PM
This is completely MOO so take it or leave it. I really think that one needs to be careful when making a definitive decision in their mind whether someone is guilty or innocent based on media interviews. DB and JI are NOT media savvy individuals. The media can and will spin a person's own statements in whatever way will be the most sensational for them. I can guarantee that if you were bestfriends with DB and wanted to tell the media some information about DB's character, they would slice and dice that interview until you made her out to be the devil. MOO :twocents: That's why I'm sitting on this fence until I hear some actual facts. All we know definitevely is that a baby is missing. :fence:

Amen.

plaidmom
10-21-2011, 12:03 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-eyewitnesses-convinced-sighting/story?id=14786129



straight from the horse's mouth (vs a reporter)


Thanks for that. I was starting to think that Kansas City was in some strange alternate universe where men running around carrying babies in the middle of the night was the norm! :floorlaugh:

LancelotLink
10-21-2011, 12:03 PM
Huh? While this neighborhood is predominately white, it is mixed. No one race would stick out here.

Thanks. I recall an interview with concerned neighbors early on and they spoke to an African American gentleman who said he was taking precautions and going over with his children certain safety guidelines.

Patty G
10-21-2011, 12:03 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-eyewitnesses-convinced-sighting/story?id=14786129



straight from the horse's mouth (vs a reporter)

Now if we could hear LE state this, I would be so happy!

Dr.Fessel
10-21-2011, 12:04 PM
It is a different woman. So her story didn't change, she has a different story and we don't know the exact location of her alleged sighting.

First woman whose husband allegedly sighted a man with a baby at about the 1:55 mark:
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/neighbor-says-husband-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper

Motorcycle man who allegedly saw the same, as well as the woman who claims to have seen that- she comes on about the 1:25 mark.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-eyewitnesses-speak-14785603

I thought it was the same woman just with her hair/makeup done until I started looking closely at specific facial details. And the 2nd lady has a lot more hair.

I am horrible with faces, anyone else think these are different women?

In da Middle
10-21-2011, 12:06 PM
Ok, 2 things I have seen.

1. It was not 45 degrees that night. I think it was 60. 60 is 'chillier' feeling on a bike though and it might have seemed like 45 to somebody on a bike. Still too chilly to have a half-naked baby out though.
2. The 1st reported lady does not live 3 doors down from the Irwins. Does not live on Lister. That's as far as I will go with that though.

Just clarifying.

Dr.Fessel
10-21-2011, 12:10 PM
It is a different woman. So her story didn't change, she has a different story and we don't know the exact location of her alleged sighting.

First woman whose husband allegedly sighted a man with a baby at about the 1:55 mark:
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/neighbor-says-husband-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper

Motorcycle man who allegedly saw the same, as well as the woman who claims to have seen that- she comes on about the 1:25 mark.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-eyewitnesses-speak-14785603

I thought it was the same woman just with her hair/makeup done until I started looking closely at specific facial details. And the 2nd lady has a lot more hair.

If they are different women then that is 5 people that saw a guy with a baby in a diaper that night.

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 12:10 PM
At least LE is following all leads, and do not have tunnel vision.

IMO

HatesSociopaths
10-21-2011, 12:11 PM
Ok so the couple that lives 3 houses down on Chelsea is the LEGIT sighting IMO because they have been interviewed FOUR times by LE. MOO. I always thought she sounded legit.

If you follow the walking path of Chelsea south, you wind up at N. Brighton/210 where the command HQ was earlier. The wooded area is there, the river is right there, etc.

It is starting to make sense. Forget this guy on the motorcycle, his sighting is about 4 hours later and came over a week later. MOO.

So was who they saw on Chelsea a black guy? I have not heard her say that! But it was in an article... If he was black, this rules out the Netz family and makes the accomplice a likely LOVER.

MOO.

ThoughtFox
10-21-2011, 12:11 PM
These "sightings" remind of the Egg Man drawing in the Madeleine McCann case, in which one of the family friends gave a sketch artist so few details that the face was blank like an egg and was later debunked as a man carrying his own sleeping child anyway.

I realize people are well-meaning, but eyewitnesses are notorious for getting things wrong or seeing what they want to see.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id30.html


http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/1stPicture2a.JPG

Patty G
10-21-2011, 12:11 PM
It is a different woman. So her story didn't change, she has a different story and we don't know the exact location of her alleged sighting.

First woman whose husband allegedly sighted a man with a baby at about the 1:55 mark:
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/neighbor-says-husband-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper

Motorcycle man who allegedly saw the same, as well as the woman who claims to have seen that- she comes on about the 1:25 mark.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-eyewitnesses-speak-14785603

I thought it was the same woman just with her hair/makeup done until I started looking closely at specific facial details. And the 2nd lady has a lot more hair.

Here are the photos of the woman from 10/4 and from 10/21 using the links above.

IMO, it is the same woman.

Patty G
10-21-2011, 12:13 PM
I am horrible with faces, anyone else think these are different women?

Nope, not me.

I am back at three:
husband and wife team = 2
motorcycle dude - 1

Abby Normal
10-21-2011, 12:14 PM
I am horrible with faces, anyone else think these are different women?

I'm just average with faces- but when I compared them side by side 2nd video woman has more hair, darker eyebrows (they could be makeup), sleeker cheeks and chin, her eyes are less "deep set"

BUT- her ears and shoulders have the exact same shape now that I look further from the face. So I could absolutely be wrong. Actually this time I turned on audio and they sound similar too
:truce:

I don't know- it just doesn't make sense if she is saying she saw it on TV after she also went on TV and said she didn't

Wendy101
10-21-2011, 12:14 PM
It's not one "lead." These "sightings" are hours apart. So we are supposed to believe this dude or dudes walked around for hours with a baby? And after 4 am (second witness claim) police was already out there responding to 911 call and then looking for Lisa. So how likely is it that police never noticed a dude with a baby just walking around?

BBM: This kidnapper obviously did not have a vehicle, I wonder if this "man" that people are reporting seeing, is a large teenager.....:waitasec:

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 12:15 PM
It is a different woman. So her story didn't change, she has a different story and we don't know the exact location of her alleged sighting.

First woman whose husband allegedly sighted a man with a baby at about the 1:55 mark:
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/neighbor-says-husband-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper

Motorcycle man who allegedly saw the same, as well as the woman who claims to have seen that- she comes on about the 1:25 mark.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-eyewitnesses-speak-14785603

I thought it was the same woman just with her hair/makeup done until I started looking closely at specific facial details. And the 2nd lady has a lot more hair.

I think it's the same woman in both. In one she has make up on and looks cleaner, in the first one (where she's in front of her house) it looks like she hasn't had a chance to fix herself up that morning.

Both videos show women making the same grammatical mistake of "we seen", and in both interviews she speaks of her husband, and they've only got two sighting locations on the map - her sighting, and the motorcycle guy sighting.

Pretty sure it's the same woman.

TheDuchess
10-21-2011, 12:17 PM
Huh? While this neighborhood is predominately white, it is mixed. No one race would stick out here.

I believe that someone may stick out if they are of one race and the child they are carrying is of another. I say that because I am white and my daughter is African American. We get lots of looks-not rude necessarily, but more inquisitive. I don't mind, as I understand that someone's immediate reaction may be that we are unrelated and need to kind of figure it out before realizing that we are, in fact, mother and daughter.

I would imagine that we stick out in a crowd and, if asked, one of the first things someone would say to describe us would be-the white lady with the black daughter. Like I said-I don't mind-variety is the spice of life and we love being unique! :)

Abby Normal
10-21-2011, 12:17 PM
If they are different women then that is 5 people that saw a guy with a baby in a diaper that night.

I agree, but if they are the same it's only 2 people because we have her on video saying she didn't see it. BAH!

No, you're probably right... my first thought was that it was the same woman just "done up" and that it probably what it was.

lonetraveler
10-21-2011, 12:18 PM
Reporter says police are discounting the story this morning of a man being seen with a baby near the home.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44987184#44987184

Thanks, Doc. Has it been determined if the neighbor who reported the man carrying the child is the same neighbor who was sitting on the porch socializing with DB?

Oops, that is what I get for posting before I get caught up. Sorry, Doc. this subject is covered very well up thread.

Codger
10-21-2011, 12:18 PM
<Respectfully snipped by me.>

Second. If, and that is a BIG if this is somehow the same guy walking with a baby from 12 AM to an intersection at 4AM, where was he walking to and how long did he have to walk to the Irwin home? Or was he already there partying or hanging out, somewhere in the neighbrhood without a car...that;s four hours of walking with a baby...hinky...



Well, just to play devil's advocate for a second... Maybe he wasn't walking the entire 4 hours. Maybe he had wheels he walked to when first spotted + had just gotten out of them at the 4am sighting. In between could be anywhere. If he's seen around 12am near the house on a perpendicular street + 4 hours later it's up where motorcycle guy saw him... it's possible he stopped somewhere in between? Like an abandoned house or something. ;)

I "think" it's about 3 miles between the 2 locations. Out of curiosity, how long would that take to walk?
You know what I really don't like about all this? I'm not from the area, so I have to rely on maps + looking at motorcycle guy's location of sighting... that's right across the way from a few cemeteries. :(

Always, all of it, JMO.

belimom
10-21-2011, 12:19 PM
But what about this man? He's new... and it was 4:00am... (This is different from the first man, right? If I'm mistaken, please let me know - I haven't read back in this thread yet b/c I'm sick and just tuning in today... :()


Man Calls Police After Possible Baby Lisa Sighting

...Mike Thompson said he saw the man wearing a T-shirt and carrying a baby near Lisa's home at about 4 a.m. on Tuesday Oct. 4

...Thompson said the baby resembled Lisa, and that he would be able to identify the man if he ever saw him again....

Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/news/29547997/detail.html#ixzz1bQxO4XMW

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 12:19 PM
I'm just average with faces- but when I compared them side by side 2nd video woman has more hair, darker eyebrows (they could be makeup), sleeker cheeks and chin, her eyes are less "deep set"

BUT- her ears and shoulders have the exact same shape now that I look further from the face. So I could absolutely be wrong. Actually this time I turned on audio and they sound similar too
:truce:

I don't know- it just doesn't make sense if she is saying she saw it on TV after she also went on TV and said she didn't

In the first interview I don't think she ever specifically said she didn't see the man, she merely didn't seem to ever say she DID. She says her husband regrets not calling the police, but she never describes that he told her about the sighting. Puzzling.

uvamerica
10-21-2011, 12:19 PM
If they are different women then that is 5 people that saw a guy with a baby in a diaper that night.

It is the same woman in both interviews !! You are right !! :rocker:

MamaK
10-21-2011, 12:20 PM
I am horrible with faces, anyone else think these are different women?

I watched both videos and I believe that it is the same woman in both clips. In the 2nd clip, she is wearing makeup but it is the same woman. MOO

HatesSociopaths
10-21-2011, 12:20 PM
Who does Debbie know that is a black male?

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 12:21 PM
Well, just to play devil's advocate for a second... Maybe he wasn't walking the entire 4 hours. Maybe he had wheels he walked to when first spotted + had just gotten out of them at the 4am sighting. In between could be anywhere. If he's seen around 12am near the house on a perpendicular street + 4 hours later it's up where motorcycle guy saw him... it's possible he stopped somewhere in between? Like an abandoned house or something. ;)

I "think" it's about 3 miles between the 2 locations. Out of curiosity, how long would that take to walk?
You know what I really don't like about all this? I'm not from the area, so I have to rely on maps + looking at motorcycle guy's location of sighting... that's right across the way from a few cemeteries. :(

Always, all of it, JMO.

MM hm. Almost anything is possible here. He could have stopped at a house and handed the baby off to the second man. One could have had Baby Lisa, and maybe one was a completely 'nother random man with another baby. They could both be random men with different unrelated babies.

Anything is possible.

Patty G
10-21-2011, 12:21 PM
Let's take a vote.

Who thinks the two women are the same woman? Click the thanks button.

TheDuchess
10-21-2011, 12:21 PM
I just looked at the map and the motorcycle guy's sighting is nowhere near the home! I googled the directions and it is an hour walk. I notice that there are what appears to be multi-family housing near that area. It is quite possible that someone was picking up or dropping off their baby at day care at that hour on the way to work?

Patty G
10-21-2011, 12:21 PM
Let's take a vote.

Who thinks the two women are NOT the same woman? Click the thanks button.

Abby Normal
10-21-2011, 12:22 PM
I think it's actually 3 different sightings . . . at least that is what I am understanding from the articles I have read. I get way too confused reading posts.

That IS what the article said. I'm not sure if we can believe what articles say anymore :waitasec: but that is what was said. Even if they are the same woman, there could be another sighting that is talking to LE but not the media. ?? I don't know.

Patty G
10-21-2011, 12:22 PM
Who does Debbie know that is a black male?

That is the question of the day.

In da Middle
10-21-2011, 12:22 PM
This is completely MOO so take it or leave it. I really think that one needs to be careful when making a definitive decision in their mind whether someone is guilty or innocent based on media interviews. DB and JI are NOT media savvy individuals. The media can and will spin a person's own statements in whatever way will be the most sensational for them. I can guarantee that if you were bestfriends with DB and wanted to tell the media some information about DB's character, they would slice and dice that interview until you made her out to be the devil. MOO :twocents: That's why I'm sitting on this fence until I hear some actual facts. All we know definitevely is that a baby is missing. :fence:
Yes they will! If you will notice you have not seen any interviews with neighbors here since the first couple of days. I have talked to a couple of the ones interviewed and they said that is exactly what happened to them. By the time it was aired, it was not what they were saying.

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 12:23 PM
I just looked at the map and the motorcycle guy's sighting is nowhere near the home! I googled the directions and it is an hour walk. I notice that there are what appears to be multi-family housing near that area. It is quite possible that someone was picking up or dropping off their baby at day care at that hour on the way to work?

Naked?

belimom
10-21-2011, 12:23 PM
I see now that you guys have been discussing this for, oh, about 8 pages... sorry... LOL!

Anyway, the first guy: 12:00am


A neighbor, who later asked NBC Action News that she not be named, said her husband was coming home around 12 a.m. Tuesday when he saw the man carrying a baby wearing only a diaper.

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/neighbor-says-husband-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper#ixzz1bQyGFbeI

The 2nd guy: 4:00am


Mike Thompson said he saw the man wearing a T-shirt and carrying a baby near Lisa's home at about 4 a.m. on Tuesday Oct. 4

Read more: http://www.kmbc.com/news/29547997/detail.html#ixzz1bQxrkrML

In da Middle
10-21-2011, 12:23 PM
This is completely MOO so take it or leave it. I really think that one needs to be careful when making a definitive decision in their mind whether someone is guilty or innocent based on media interviews. DB and JI are NOT media savvy individuals. The media can and will spin a person's own statements in whatever way will be the most sensational for them. I can guarantee that if you were bestfriends with DB and wanted to tell the media some information about DB's character, they would slice and dice that interview until you made her out to be the devil. MOO :twocents: That's why I'm sitting on this fence until I hear some actual facts. All we know definitevely is that a baby is missing. :fence:
Yes they will! If you will notice you have not seen any interviews with neighbors here since the first couple of days. I have talked to a couple of the ones interviewed and they said that is exactly what happened to them. By the time it was aired, it was not what they were saying. And we are talking small beans kind of stuff that there is no way it should have been put together any differently.

Turnadot
10-21-2011, 12:26 PM
Well, I hope this/these men who walked around in those areas with a baby that night phone up the police, if they are innocent and LE hasn't found him/them yet.

I'd phone LE and say it was me and invite them to investigate me, so they could move on.

Dr.Fessel
10-21-2011, 12:26 PM
I agree, but if they are the same it's only 2 people because we have her on video saying she didn't see it. BAH!


No, you're probably right... my first thought was that it was the same woman just "done up" and that it probably what it was.

BBM

If you don't read the story and just listen close to what is said by both the reporter and the lady in the video it is both the husband and wife that saw the guy.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/crime/neighbor-says-husband-saw-man-carrying-baby-wearing-only-a-diaper

MamaK
10-21-2011, 12:26 PM
I just looked at the map and the motorcycle guy's sighting is nowhere near the home! I googled the directions and it is an hour walk. I notice that there are what appears to be multi-family housing near that area. It is quite possible that someone was picking up or dropping off their baby at day care at that hour on the way to work?

Where is the map again? I'm curious to see where the dumpster fire was in relation to the sightings. TIA

Abby Normal
10-21-2011, 12:27 PM
In the first interview I don't think she ever specifically said she didn't see the man, she merely didn't seem to ever say she DID. She says her husband regrets not calling the police, but she never describes that he told her about the sighting. Puzzling.

I could swear that somewhere I saw a video of her saying that her husband came home and told her about it... but you're right, in this video she speaks as if she saw it too. Maybe I misinterpreted it from the start?

I'll just need to observe it awhile and see how it plays out.

plaidmom
10-21-2011, 12:29 PM
Yes they will! If you will notice you have not seen any interviews with neighbors here since the first couple of days. I have talked to a couple of the ones interviewed and they said that is exactly what happened to them. By the time it was aired, it was not what they were saying. And we are talking small beans kind of stuff that there is no way it should have been put together any differently.

Every time I've given a statement to media (either print or camera) I'm completely shocked when I see what comes out in the paper or on the air. Luckily I've never been asked to comment on a crime.

Codger
10-21-2011, 12:29 PM
I just looked at the map and the motorcycle guy's sighting is nowhere near the home! I googled the directions and it is an hour walk. I notice that there are what appears to be multi-family housing near that area. It is quite possible that someone was picking up or dropping off their baby at day care at that hour on the way to work?
I don't think so, because the baby is said to have on only a diaper + it's 4am. Ya'll have 4am daycare in MO? I've never heard of such a thing, but that's JMO.

Patty G
10-21-2011, 12:29 PM
I am at a point that the woman, her husband and the motorcycle dude need to take a poly. :rolleyes:.

Kamille
10-21-2011, 12:30 PM
Yes they will! If you will notice you have not seen any interviews with neighbors here since the first couple of days. I have talked to a couple of the ones interviewed and they said that is exactly what happened to them. By the time it was aired, it was not what they were saying. And we are talking small beans kind of stuff that there is no way it should have been put together any differently.

Perhaps one of the reasons LE is looking for raw footage?

belimom
10-21-2011, 12:30 PM
I see now that you guys have been discussing this for, oh, about 8 pages... sorry... LOL!

Anyway, the first guy: 12:00am

The 2nd guy: 4:00am

Sorry to quote myself, but I'm confused. Are these two separate sightings, or is that what you guys are trying to figure out? I'm heavily medicated and sick with pertussis and my head just can't go back through all of these posts right now. I apologize, but can someone summarize what's being compared here? These different reported sightings? Seems to me there at at least two - 12:00am and 4:00am, correct?

TIA... :seeya:

krimekat
10-21-2011, 12:30 PM
Yes they will! If you will notice you have not seen any interviews with neighbors here since the first couple of days. I have talked to a couple of the ones interviewed and they said that is exactly what happened to them. By the time it was aired, it was not what they were saying. And we are talking small beans kind of stuff that there is no way it should have been put together any differently.

Thank you, local!!! The Thanks button was not enough . . . there are many reasons why people do not choose to get involved in issues such as these.

I would not want to be "exposed" in the media & be misrepresented. And I do not talk with LE unless I have an attorney present.

I still think there have been at least 3 different sightings just based on where the "witnesses" reside or where they "saw" this.

:fence:

Dr.Fessel
10-21-2011, 12:31 PM
In the first interview I don't think she ever specifically said she didn't see the man, she merely didn't seem to ever say she DID. She says her husband regrets not calling the police, but she never describes that he told her about the sighting. Puzzling. Right, and the reporter says both her and her husband saw them in that first interview. Just opposite of the story written up about it. Makes me think the reporter did not write the story.

Gardenlady
10-21-2011, 12:32 PM
Am I the only one wondering when this guy with a baby became a black guy with a white baby?! I could have sworn back at the beginning that he was described as a white guy with a white baby! Just me? Bad memory? Just getting old lol?

Codger
10-21-2011, 12:32 PM
Where is the map again? I'm curious to see where the dumpster fire was in relation to the sightings. TIA

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Maps and pictures of the area

Patty G
10-21-2011, 12:33 PM
Sorry to quote myself, but I'm confused. Are these two separate sightings, or is that what you guys are trying to figure out? I'm heavily medicated and sick with pertussis and my head just can't go back through all of these posts right now. I apologize, but can someone summarize what's being compared here? These different reported sightings? Seems to me there at at least two - 12:00am and 4:00am, correct?

TIA... :seeya:

Two separate sightings. 12:00 and 4:00

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 12:33 PM
Since the second sighting was at a fairly busy intersection, I wonder if there's any video?

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 12:35 PM
Am I the only one wondering when this guy with a baby became a black guy with a white baby?! I could have sworn back at the beginning that he was described as a white guy with a white baby! Just me? Bad memory? Just getting old lol?

I didn't ever hear his race until this morning, but there are two articles posted about the woman/husband sighting at midnight that the man was African American. I didn't hear the woman say that in her videos. The baby looked like Lisa, which would mean it was a white baby - she's as white as babies get.

frankie069
10-21-2011, 12:36 PM
I still think they are all looking for their 15 minutes. Lets just hope that whoever it might have been walking down the roads at that time of night comes forward even if they dont have a child and says, " I was walking from so and so's house that night", "You are more than welcome to check me out in case it was me that someone saw". Once again, people need to be proactive and get involved. The more people they can clear the better off we will be and the closer we will get to finding Lisa IMO. I feel like we are never going to find this baby and it breaks my heart. It really does.

Kamille
10-21-2011, 12:36 PM
Have we been able to clarify if the wife said her husband was going to work or coming home? Did she give a definitive time?

drinkitin
10-21-2011, 12:37 PM
I just can't believe both sightings. I could maybe believe one but not both. There is many reasons.

There is no way that someone would walk the long with an unclothed baby. First the reports say Lisa is around 30lbs, it gets very uncomfortable after just a short period carrying a baby around that long. (I know my 9month old is 21lbs). Also at 10months she is pretty mobile and can move and a squirmy baby is not fun to carry for a long distance.

Well lets say maybe the person stopped some where with baby Lisa for a break. Lisa most likely would be awake this whole time and would be hunger and very cranky if not feed/given bottle. By the time that second sighting happened that would be one fussy baby.

Lets say well she wasnt fussy because she was dead, well then the second sighting would have been hard to see Lisas face, Im not around dead bodies a lot but Im sure while carrying a dead body that the head would flop into the persons shoulder. (I hate talking about that)

If the person that took her didnt care enough to cloth her In October in the early morning when it is very cold. They didnt care to bring food or a bottle.

I could go on but this is getting long, to sum it up I just cant believe the second sighting.

belimom
10-21-2011, 12:37 PM
Two separate sightings. 12:00 and 4:00

Thank you, Patty... I'm inclined to believe these sightings, then. Which really throws a wrench into my theory.

:fence:

cluciano63
10-21-2011, 12:37 PM
I do think LE should probably address these sightings, either by stating they have been investigated and ruled out or that they need to speak to these witnesses further; something. The case is going to spin out of control, if it hasn't already.

Patty G
10-21-2011, 12:38 PM
Am I the only one wondering when this guy with a baby became a black guy with a white baby?! I could have sworn back at the beginning that he was described as a white guy with a white baby! Just me? Bad memory? Just getting old lol?

It was reported a black male and a baby in an article; however never spoken by the witness on air for us to hear the words from her mouth.

So far haven't found "black male with a white baby".

Although he had no clues, one neighbor reportedly told police about seeing an African-American individual carrying a baby up the street around midnight

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/14/3208365/neighborhoods-trust-stability.html#ixzz1bR2BruC9

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 12:38 PM
Have we been able to clarify if the wife said her husband was going to work or coming home? Did she give a definitive time?

Midnight, on the way to work. It's not clear if she was driving him to work or not. She does, in the more recent media, say "we seen" - that she also saw the man and baby.

Codger
10-21-2011, 12:39 PM
Sorry to quote myself, but I'm confused. Are these two separate sightings, or is that what you guys are trying to figure out? I'm heavily medicated and sick with pertussis and my head just can't go back through all of these posts right now. I apologize, but can someone summarize what's being compared here? These different reported sightings? Seems to me there at at least two - 12:00am and 4:00am, correct?

TIA... :seeya:

One article stated 3 sightings or witnesses. Some are trying to determine if that was A) Husband + wife = 2 at once at 12am with MT being 3 at 4am or B) scenario A + another sighting unknown location or time making it 3. Or that's what I've fished out of the convo anyhow. I believe we all are in agreement there are at least 2 sightings reported 12am on a perpendicular st. to N. Lister and 4am up by NE 48th + Randolph. Both involve a man carrying an undressed baby, in only a diaper, 4am says man had on just a t-shirt (I'll assume with pants ;) ). You are correct, as far as I can tell. Hope ya feel better soon!
all the above MOO.

MamaK
10-21-2011, 12:39 PM
I don't think so, because the baby is said to have on only a diaper + it's 4am. Ya'll have 4am daycare in MO? I've never heard of such a thing, but that's JMO.

I'm in a military town, so yeah, our daycares keep some pretty weird hours. That would probably be odd anywhere else though. :waitasec:

frankie069
10-21-2011, 12:40 PM
Two separate sightings. 12:00 and 4:00

I feel like both those times would make this not Lisa.. I cannot see DB going to bed before 12am. ( she apparently doesnt have very fun adult time if she is in bed that early JMO).. that time just seems to early for me. Secondly, 4am the police would have already been at the Irwin house and the police presence in that area should have been great with an Amber Alert being issued and a possible kidnapping. I am not saying there were no sighting, just that I find it hard to believe either of these would be Lisa, times just dont fit to me. Does anyone else feel this way. ???

EDIT: I might be wrong about the time, see the story changes but DB and LI didnt call the police right away right?? It was sometime after 4am that they called??

JeannaT
10-21-2011, 12:41 PM
I do think LE should probably address these sightings, either by stating they have been investigated and ruled out or that they need to speak to these witnesses further; something. The case is going to spin out of control, if it hasn't already.

There's an article posted a page ago, bolded in red, stating LE has not discounted these tips and will be investigating. Published today.

Funny, they've had ALL this information by about the 11th of October - they've interviewed the witnesses - why sit on it if they've not discounted it? Why does it take going to the media to make LE take this a little more seriously? This is EXACTLY the type thing the public is so good at - confirming that yes they saw the man or they were driving through the area right then and saw nothing. OR, of course, hey that was me and here's the baby that's not Lisa.