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CN2Souls
10-21-2011, 12:57 PM
FLOOR PLAN of Baby Lisa Irwin's home

Ok, I really tried to make this the best guess floor-plan,

( I made it in "word" so don't laugh) :giggle:

However it may still be wrong

please post what needs to be changed.

Also what is the likelihood of this being stranger abduction with this floor plan?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19392&d=1319216204


Please link any videos or Picture that can help make this correct.

quadlatte
10-21-2011, 01:01 PM
Nice work! I was hoping someone would do this!

Now I just wish we had an idea what the lower level looked like... garage, stairs, pool table (?)...

CN2Souls
10-21-2011, 01:02 PM
Nice work! I was hoping someone would do this!

Now I just wish we had an idea what the lower level looked like... garage, stairs, pool table (?)...

I am working on that one, really hard not many pictures or Videos...

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :banghead:

Blue Ridge
10-21-2011, 01:04 PM
In one interview, didn't JI mention DB was in bed all the way in the opposite corner of the home from the computer room window w/ the tampered screen? I think the master BR in this diagram should be switched w/ the boys BR. I also think that bathroom shown is the master bath, and somewhere in the middle of the house there is likely another 'common' bath or at least half-bath.

nursebeeme
10-21-2011, 01:06 PM
:clap:

awesome pictures CN2!

quadlatte
10-21-2011, 01:07 PM
Yep, that level is going to be much harder. I only recall seeing still images of the back.

I think there must be a bathroom down there, too. I would be interested to see how the bathrooms are positioned. Also the doors and windows.

Maybe a local with a similar floor plan could pitch in? IMO it would really add more depth to the abduction possibility discussion.

CN2Souls
10-21-2011, 01:09 PM
In one interview, didn't JI mention DB was in bed all the way in the opposite corner of the home from the computer room window w/ the tampered screen? I think the master BR in this diagram should be switched w/ the boys BR. I also think that bathroom shown is the master bath, and somewhere in the middle of the house there is likely another 'common' bath or at least half-bath.

It seems that JI has said that the master was on the opposite side of the house and then in another interview he says that the boys room is on the opposite side of the house, But DB said she sometime leave the boy window open a crack because it is so high up, and that would have to be this bedroom.:waitasec: I think....

indepmo
10-21-2011, 01:10 PM
In one interview, didn't JI mention DB was in bed all the way in the opposite corner of the home from the computer room window w/ the tampered screen? I think the master BR in this diagram should be switched w/ the boys BR. I also think that bathroom shown is the master bath, and somewhere in the middle of the house there is likely another 'common' bath or at least half-bath.

I remember that same interview.
Stated: "Opposite corner of the house from the busted window" (something along those lines)

CN2Souls
10-21-2011, 01:11 PM
Yep, that level is going to be much harder. I only recall seeing still images of the back.

I think there must be a bathroom down there, too. I would be interested to see how the bathrooms are positioned. Also the doors and windows.

Maybe a local with a similar floor plan could pitch in? IMO it would really add more depth to the abduction possibility discussion.

I am also using the placement of the exhaust pipes and fan tops on the roof as where the rooms are located, and know a lot about construction,

I believe there is a second bath downstairs and it would have to be some where near where the other plumbing runs... For sewer and water to run properly.

Quiche
10-21-2011, 01:16 PM
The bathrooms on that floor are probably back to back-- so maybe the bathroom window seen in the back is the master, and between that and the main hall there's probably another. It's common to plumb like that. jmo

indepmo
10-21-2011, 01:17 PM
Someone posted the basement layout form the county assessment dept. Here it is again.
http://gisweb.claycogov.com/realEstate/realEPhoto2?imgFullNm=181\150\014\005\00sk1.jpg

dizzychick
10-21-2011, 01:20 PM
Just FYi id you want to see street view enter the house address at www.viewofhouse.com it is like google earth. Nice street but I seee a greenway nearby hope they checked it good its a large area.

LadyPirate
10-21-2011, 01:40 PM
If you go back to the Media Links thread, there is a clip of a reporter inside the house and gives you a bit of as to the layout.....

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/m...win%20%20-MO-/

Hope that link works.

quadlatte
10-21-2011, 01:48 PM
Someone posted the basement layout form the county assessment dept. Here it is again.
http://gisweb.claycogov.com/realEstate/realEPhoto2?imgFullNm=181\150\014\005\00sk1.jpg

Thanks, but for some reason I can't see it?! Can anyone else?

I must have missed it the first time around...

Patty G
10-21-2011, 01:55 PM
I thought the Master Bedroom was on the other side of the house away from the computer room.

Patty G
10-21-2011, 01:56 PM
If you go back to the Media Links thread, there is a clip of a reporter inside the house and gives you a bit of as to the layout.....

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/m...win%20%20-MO-/

Hope that link works.

Need to sign it to view anything.

Cher352
10-21-2011, 01:56 PM
FLOOR PLAN of Baby Lisa Irwin's home

Ok, I really tried to make this the best guess floor-plan,

( I made it in "word" so don't laugh) :giggle:

However it may still be wrong

please post what needs to be changed.

Also what is the likelihood of this being stranger abduction with this floor plan?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19392&d=1319216204


Please link any videos or Picture that can help make this correct.

Good work!

This video shows the inside of the house starting at 0:40. Might help you tweek your drawing.

The kitchen looks much more narrow in the video almost like just a hallway. Then that door you have labeled for the master bedroom, looks like the the room behind that door goes to a room that goes to the left of the doorway at least in part to me.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/lisa-irwin-inside-home-14695353

You may also want to show the front and back entry doors for this level.

And the property records show this house at 2 1/2 both wonder where that 1/2 bath is at?

lag28wa
10-21-2011, 02:19 PM
I remember In Da Middle saying that she was pretty sure the house didn't have an en suite masterbath, that none of the homes in the area do, unless there has been some remodeling on the house, so that makes the bathroom issue interesting. Maybe there is 1.5 baths upstairs and 1 downstairs? Beats me as to where they might be though!

MarthaM
10-21-2011, 02:24 PM
In most homes with similar layouts that I've seen, there's a powder room/half-bath between the kitchen and 'master' bedroom. IOW, it's not a shared wall between those rooms, but rather a bathroom between them. Not sure if that's the case here, though.

But what is it about this floor plan that makes a stranger abduction less likely? I'm not seeing it.

dizzychick
10-21-2011, 02:26 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-eyewitnesses-convinced-sighting/story?id=14786129

If eyewitness reports are so unreliable then why do cops use it everday to convict people and even execute them based on eyewitness testimony?

LadyPirate
10-21-2011, 02:35 PM
Need to sign it to view anything.

Huh........I took this straight off the link that is on WS. I didn't have to sign in or anything. I probably copied it wrong.

Patty G
10-21-2011, 02:41 PM
Huh........I took this straight off the link that is on WS. I didn't have to sign in or anything. I probably copied it wrong.

Maybe copy the post number.

ClaireNC
10-21-2011, 02:55 PM
Try searching youtube. I remember seeing a video that showed the house when it was vacant, like maybe something done when it was on the market.

CN2Souls
10-21-2011, 03:05 PM
Ok I updated it again, Is this more like it?



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19397&d=1319223864

CN2Souls
10-21-2011, 03:08 PM
This picture has me wondering what room is it in the door way?


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19398&d=1319224000

In da Middle
10-21-2011, 03:43 PM
Ok I updated it again, Is this more like it?



http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19397&d=1319223864
This should be similar to what it should be. I still dont believe it has a 2nd bath upstairs but it could have been added through the years. I dont believe the stairs going down could be where this lists them either as they would be right smack in the middle of the garage where they come down. There is really no room for them to be there either if it is like the houses 2-3 doors to the south. This house is the same floor plan as those (IMO) except they have a 1-car garage where the extra living room is on this one. I am sure it was build this was because if it wasnt the area under it would be fill and not basement. It was posted here somewhere else (assessor site maybe) the square footage of the basement and it would include the area under the computer room. I am pretty sure the extra bathroom would be down there. Not sure about the 1/2 bath though. Clear as mud?

In da Middle
10-21-2011, 03:48 PM
I could be wrong about the stairs. I cant do video at this moment, but if somebody could post a screenshot of it would help. I am only going by what I know about the other houses in this neighborhood like this one and not this one in particular.

*~Aimee~*
10-21-2011, 04:37 PM
This picture has me wondering what room is it in the door way?


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19398&d=1319224000

looks like the baby bed in the background in the doorway.

Turtles
10-21-2011, 04:45 PM
looks like the baby bed in the background in the doorway.

I does look like baby Lisa's room, it appears to be the pink bath seat/tub in the crib along with the black on the windows?

Mountain_Kat
10-21-2011, 05:26 PM
This picture has me wondering what room is it in the door way?


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19398&d=1319224000

That is Lisa's nursery. You can see her crib and the items piled in it. Lisa's bedroom is the room off the kitchen, and closest to the computer room. Her bedroom window is the window next to the back deck, overlooking the air conditioning unit. IMO

serveitup
10-21-2011, 07:32 PM
If a person came in the computer room window they passed right by the cell phones on the counter and after leaving baby Lisa's room went out the front door.
Which side of the house is the path that leads to heavy wooded area on? Is that on the side closest to the front door through a gate? And certain kinds of shoes, I'm thinking of leather boots, make clicking sounds on solid flooring. Grabbing at straws right now holding out hope they find her alive.

LCoastMom
10-21-2011, 07:52 PM
If you turn that image of the floor plan on it's side, we can probably see it without blowing the margins. :)

Good work CN2!!

Wise Old Owl
10-21-2011, 07:59 PM
Thankx for the updated floor plan! Post #26 above.

First thing that jumped at me - maybe Lisa fell down the stairs. Maybe DB was outside - Lisa got out of the crib and went looking for mom. Maybe the door to the stairs wasn't latched all that good (door knob I mean) - Lisa was able to pull it open further with her hands and ........

DB comes in later - Lisa isn't in the crib - DB finds her - brings her into the bedroom and puts her on the floor. Maybe Lisa didn't die at the bottom of the stairs but on the floor in the bedroom?

IDK - those STAIRS are screaming at me for some reason..............

Mountain_Kat
10-21-2011, 08:05 PM
Jeremy stated that the boys bedroom was at the opposite end of the house from the computer room. If you are look at the back of the house, here is what you see:

1. Doors with deck off it.
2. Window over air conditioning unit .
3. Window.
4. small window
5. Window

My personal opinion, based on what Jeremy has said, the video of the inside of the house, and common sense, is that the layout goes like this, from left to right looking at back of house:

1. computer room
2. Lisa's room
3. master bedroom
4 .bathroom
5. boys bedroom

JMO

Patty G
10-21-2011, 08:36 PM
I am not 100% convinced that the computer room goes the full side length of the house. I remember seeing some wall units or something in the computer room when they were searching inside the house as well as when they were climbing in the window.

sorrell skye
10-21-2011, 08:44 PM
Jeremy stated that the boys bedroom was at the opposite end of the house from the computer room. If you are look at the back of the house, here is what you see:

1. Doors with deck off it.
2. Window over air conditioning unit .
3. Window.
4. small window
5. Window

My personal opinion, based on what Jeremy has said, the video of the inside of the house, and common sense, is that the layout goes like this, from left to right looking at back of house:

1. computer room
2. Lisa's room
3. master bedroom
4 .bathroom
5. boys bedroom

JMO

MK, my dear, JI did not state that the boys' bedroom is @ the opposite end of the house from the computer room - it's the parents' bedroom that's exactly opposite the computer room.

In this interview, JI states:

"Our bedroom is on the exact opposite corner of the house and she sleeps with the fan on high."

@ about 3:18 in the video.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44927631#44927631

panthera
10-21-2011, 08:59 PM
Thankx for the updated floor plan! Post #26 above.

First thing that jumped at me - maybe Lisa fell down the stairs. Maybe DB was outside - Lisa got out of the crib and went looking for mom. Maybe the door to the stairs wasn't latched all that good (door knob I mean) - Lisa was able to pull it open further with her hands and ........

DB comes in later - Lisa isn't in the crib - DB finds her - brings her into the bedroom and puts her on the floor. Maybe Lisa didn't die at the bottom of the stairs but on the floor in the bedroom?

IDK - those STAIRS are screaming at me for some reason..............
I also share the same feeling about the stairs. The bathroom is now located where the original layout had Lisa's room, therefore it is now separating the master bedroom from her room and making it less likely DB could have heard something going on inside the room. However, that said, the baby monitor still should have picked up on any noise. I do believe some type of accident may have occurred before 10:30pm, while DB was outside drinking.

MOO

quadlatte
10-21-2011, 11:25 PM
This picture has me wondering what room is it in the door way?


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19398&d=1319224000

Dining room? :waitasec:(I know we haven't heard of one, but from the light fixture and what looks like a table with laundry or something on it, perhaps...)

ETA: on second thought, it looks like it is Lisa's bedroom.

MarthaM
10-21-2011, 11:32 PM
I am not 100% convinced that the computer room goes the full side length of the house. I remember seeing some wall units or something in the computer room when they were searching inside the house as well as when they were climbing in the window.

I think the front part of what is labeled as 'computer room' is what is really meant to be a dining room, since it is off the kitchen. I might use that as a computer room/den type of thing if I lived there, since dining room tables are nothing but catch-alls for me.

It looks like the back end of the 'computer room' has an exit door, so I would think that what is shown as one large room is really two, or at least that it's divided by some kind of wall or divider. I would think the part with the exit door is a utility room of some sort.

quadlatte
10-21-2011, 11:36 PM
I think the front part of what is labeled as 'computer room' is what is really meant to be a dining room, since it is off the kitchen. I might use that as a computer room/den type of thing if I lived there, since dining room tables are nothing but catch-alls for me.

It looks like the back end of the 'computer room' has an exit door, so I would think that what is shown as one large room is really two, or at least that it's divided by some kind of wall or divider. I would think the part with the exit door is a utility room of some sort.

ITA, except the utility room part... since the deck with chairs is right off that room, I would assume it would be a den or something? But I do think that it is/was 2 rooms, the front being the dining room since it is off the kitchen like you said.

carole
10-21-2011, 11:38 PM
ITA, except the utility room part... since the deck with chairs is right off that room, I would assume it would be a den or something? But I do think that it is/was 2 rooms, the front being the dining room since it is off the kitchen like you said.

Look closer, this is Lisa's room, the crib with the pink baby bath and the window taped up with black plastic and duct tape.

Quiche
10-21-2011, 11:47 PM
Look closer, this is Lisa's room, the crib with the pink baby bath and the window taped up with black plastic and duct tape.

Why is the window taped off like that? :waitasec:

carole
10-21-2011, 11:49 PM
Why is the window taped off like that? :waitasec:

Probably done to eliminate as much light as possible by LE when first looking for evidence, using luminol to find blood, fingerprints when abduction was looked at as the crime.

otto
10-22-2011, 01:19 AM
Haven't followed this case ... partially because I don't think the mom had anything to do with it ... but enjoy putting together floorplans. Based on the drawing posted above, I put this together. Once the floor plan is completely nailed down, I can add the interior - if there's interest. Out of curiosity, what's downstairs?

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/LisaFloorplan_1.jpg

otto
10-22-2011, 01:40 AM
Looking at the floorplan, I think it would have been quite easy to enter through the front door or patio, enter the bedroom and leave without being noticed. The path along the back of the house is dark and deserted. Was the patio door locked?

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 07:14 AM
MK, my dear, JI did not state that the boys' bedroom is @ the opposite end of the house from the computer room - it's the parents' bedroom that's exactly opposite the computer room.

In this interview, JI states:

"Our bedroom is on the exact opposite corner of the house and she sleeps with the fan on high."

@ about 3:18 in the video.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44927631#44927631

Thanks Sorrell, I didn't hear that interview. But he also said the boys room was at the opposite end of the house. An interviewer asked him if the boys might have heard anything unusual that night, and he said no...because their room was at the opposite end of the house from the computer room. (Will insert link if I can find it.)

So one thing we do know is that both the master room and the boys room are at the opposite end of the house from the computer room. So Lisa's room is definitely the bedroom next to the computer room.

otto
10-22-2011, 01:15 PM
Thanks Sorrell, I didn't hear that interview. But he also said the boys room was at the opposite end of the house. An interviewer asked him if the boys might have heard anything unusual that night, and he said no...because their room was at the opposite end of the house from the computer room. (Will insert link if I can find it.)

So one thing we do know is that both the master room and the boys room are at the opposite end of the house from the computer room. So Lisa's room is definitely the bedroom next to the computer room.

Is this closer?

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/LisaFloorplan_2a.jpg

Patty G
10-22-2011, 01:28 PM
Are we 100% certain that the computer room is the full length of the side of the house?

Also do we have a picture of the back of the house to look at?

otto
10-22-2011, 01:31 PM
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/lisabackofhouse.jpg

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 01:37 PM
Otto - I'm thinking the bathroom (near the master) doesn't have a door to the hall - but is more of a master suite with the bathroom door in the bedroom - KWIM?

Also, now looking at what you've done. I'm thinking MAYBE the stairs and the 2nd bathroom (what you're calling a water closet) are switched. I say that because if you follow the "water walls" and put the toilet in the master on the other side - you can draw a straight line to the front of the house - which the front wall has the kitchen sink. Most times the plumbing pipes tend to follow each other - am I making any sense.

I also think - yes nursie - that the computer room is one big room the width of the house. I don't believe it started that way. It could have been two separate rooms with a wall dividing them. The front room being the dining room (right off the kitchen) and I don't think there is an actual door there - just an opening. JI might have (or another owner) taken the dividing wall down to make it one big room.

Now, when that room was two separate (if it was) - when you "put the dividing wall back up - then the back room has no other exit than the outside (which I think is either french doors or glass sliding doors). So, the computer room must have two doorway openings. This would lead to a "hallway" down the back in front of all the bedrooms and ending at the master bedroom door.

I don't even know if I'm making any sense now. lol

ETA: The back outside door on the computer room is a solid door - thanks for posting the pic of the back.


Thoughts?

Patty G
10-22-2011, 01:37 PM
Thank you, I just found the photo too!

On the end of the house on the left, is that sliding glass doors for the deck?

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 01:38 PM
Otto, I think you NAILED It!! :)

Except, the door to the basement is on the other side, imo. In the video we can see a solid wall with a bulletin board where you have door to the basement. I think the door to the basement is off the livingroom.

Patty G
10-22-2011, 01:41 PM
Do we have a picture of the side of the driveway side of the house?

Patty G
10-22-2011, 01:45 PM
The details on this house says it has 4 bedrooms.

http://www.zillow.com

Then put in the address

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 01:46 PM
Thank you, I just found the photo too!

On the end of the house on the left, is that sliding glass doors for the deck?

The door to the deck looks like a solid single door to me. The only sliding glass doors I see are the ones going into the basement.

The 4 bedroom listing I think is because the computer room could be considered a bedroom? Or maybe there's another room in the basement?

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 01:49 PM
The details on this house says it has 4 bedrooms.

http://www.zillow.com

Then put in the address
That helps with the theory that the computer room was once 2 separate rooms. The front being a dining room and the back being the fourth bedroom.

I really want to see this basement. It looks rather large - has to be, there are 2 garage doors - so large enough to hold 2 cars at least. I've also heard that's where the laundry is.

If we could see the basement - then we'd know where the stairs come up into the house too.

Patty G
10-22-2011, 01:55 PM
I'm thinking the computer room, off the kitchen, was a dining room. This house was built in 1958.

What I am trying to get Lisa's bedroom all the way at the other end of the house, and the only way to do that, is to divide up that computer room.

New1
10-22-2011, 02:04 PM
FLOOR PLAN of Baby Lisa Irwin's home

Ok, I really tried to make this the best guess floor-plan,

( I made it in "word" so don't laugh) :giggle:

However it may still be wrong

please post what needs to be changed.

Also what is the likelihood of this being stranger abduction with this floor plan?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19392&d=1319216204


Please link any videos or Picture that can help make this correct.

Why would a stranger break in through that window on the front of the house and go all the way through the kitchen, living room, past the stairs, turn right into the hallway and left into the baby's room when there appears to be a window on the back side of the house and Lisa's bed is right there near that window? No way is this a stranger abduction. That baby is dead and I don't understand why the mom has not been arrested for child neglect or child endangerment since she was drunk while the kids were in her care.

Patty G
10-22-2011, 02:20 PM
This site says only 3 bedrooms, of which, is probably correct since the boys share a bedroom.

http://www.homes.com/Home-Prices/ID-600023053253/3620-N-LISTER-AVE/

marge_rita
10-22-2011, 02:35 PM
Otto,
Great job on the floor plan. Puts things in prospective nicely!
(Though I personally don't think this child was kidnapped, I think she was removed from the home after she passed.) :(

imo

marge_rita
10-22-2011, 02:35 PM
Why would a stranger break in through that window on the front of the house and go all the way through the kitchen, living room, past the stairs, turn right into the hallway and left into the baby's room when there appears to be a window on the back side of the house and Lisa's bed is right there near that window? No way is this a stranger abduction. That baby is dead and I don't understand why the mom has not been arrested for child neglect or child endangerment since she was drunk while the kids were in her care.

Good post and I agree. A stranger wouldn't go that route. imo

otto
10-22-2011, 03:04 PM
Maybe something more like this? There is something off with the area around the stairs, the bathroom and the entrance to the computer room ... don't know what, but it seems like something doesn't fit quite right.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/LisaFloorplan_3a.jpg

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 03:11 PM
Maybe something more like this? There is something off with the area around the stairs, the bathroom and the entrance to the computer room ... don't know what, but it seems like something doesn't fit quite right.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/LisaFloorplan_3.jpg
Yes, but I think there was a "back" hallway.

More like move the stairs to match up with the bathroom and then use that as a hallway that runs all the way to the master. If the computer room was once two rooms - there would have to be a doorway/opening.

Also, the "island" bath and the master bath. Toilet in master move to opposite wall and island bath move toilet to the wall right before your "W" - that lines up the water lines.

But overall YES - I think you've got it


Although I still think Lisa's room was the one in the middle. But that's JMHO.


GREAT WORK OTTO!!!!!!!!

Patty G
10-22-2011, 03:28 PM
Perhaps, the second bathroom wasn't even on the first floor since this home was built in 1958, leaving only a main bathroom rather than a master bath.

That would make the main bathroom perhaps on the same side as the bedrooms. The stairs then could go back where they were, perhaps with the opening to the steps the same way you have the WC in the middle of the floor plan. It would then be like going down the hallway and the door to the basement is there.

My ranch had a hallway to the bedrooms. Just as the hallway started the door to the basement was on my left and about 6 foot steps down the hallway, the main bathroom was on my right, of which, was the same side as my kitchen and the master bath for plumbing purposes.

Thinking out loud.

I also think Lisa's bedroom was in the middle, FWIW!

You are doing an AWESOME job with the floor plans. :blowkiss:

Patty G
10-22-2011, 03:31 PM
A thought about that second bath, I would think there would have to be a window in that second bathroom. So either there is a bathroom downstairs and none in the master suite, just leaving a main bathroom on the same side as the bedrooms.

Geralyn
10-22-2011, 03:40 PM
This picture has me wondering what room is it in the door way?


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19398&d=1319224000


Is he standing in the living room in this picture?
If so...baby Lisa's room is right thru that doorway, it appears.
If not, do you know what room he is standing in?

Geralyn
10-22-2011, 03:42 PM
Wow great job everyone. Those layouts are great.

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 03:43 PM
This pic:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19172&d=1318476831

Look on the roof. There are little "vent type" outlets. They usually give a clue where the toilets - or water lines in the hosue are.

There is one right in the front - where the water wall in the kitchen is
and then to the left and back a little - which is where I say that second bath is.

I've seen where this could possibly be a 2 and a half bath house - the would put that island bathroom as the "half" bath with another full bath downstairs.

Here's the pic of the back:

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/lisabackofhouse.jpg

Again, you can see the "vent" for the master bath in this one.


I really want to see this basement - its huge. Almost like having another whole house. What is down there? We can see glass sliding doors and 2 garage doors. Big place down there.

Patty G
10-22-2011, 03:51 PM
This picture has me wondering what room is it in the door way?


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19398&d=1319224000

Looking at this picture, is he standing in the computer room? It looks to me that the room behind him is Baby Lisa's room. So there must be a doorway to the computer room off that hallway.

Patty G
10-22-2011, 04:02 PM
We need a better aerial view of the top of the house because now I need to see another vent to determine a main bathroom and a master bathroom. :(

As I was looking around for info on the house, one area indicated the basement was around 750 square feet.

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 04:05 PM
I think the reporter is standing where I marked in red.....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?pictureid=12949&albumid=1498&dl=1319313834&thumb=1

Geralyn
10-22-2011, 04:07 PM
Looking at this picture, is he standing in the computer room? It looks to me that the room behind him is Baby Lisa's room. So there must be a doorway to the computer room off that hallway.

I really want to know what room he's standing in also. I didn't consider the computer room.

I also started at it for a few minutes at one point when it looked almost as if that were a closed door with a full length mirror attached (putting Lisa's room in the mirrored image...or opposite wall, if you will.)

Geralyn
10-22-2011, 04:09 PM
I think the reporter is standing where I marked in red.....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?pictureid=12949&albumid=1498&dl=1319313834&thumb=1

Ok thank you Wise. :::blinks hard from eye strain::: lol

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 04:11 PM
Ok thank you Wise. :::blinks hard from eye strain::: lol
lol - I know - I'm sorry - I didn't think it would come out that small. At least you can see it. teehee

Patty G
10-22-2011, 04:16 PM
This pic:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19172&d=1318476831

Look on the roof. There are little "vent type" outlets. They usually give a clue where the toilets - or water lines in the hosue are.

There is one right in the front - where the water wall in the kitchen is
and then to the left and back a little - which is where I say that second bath is.

I've seen where this could possibly be a 2 and a half bath house - the would put that island bathroom as the "half" bath with another full bath downstairs.

Here's the pic of the back:

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/lisabackofhouse.jpg

Again, you can see the "vent" for the master bath in this one.


I really want to see this basement - its huge. Almost like having another whole house. What is down there? We can see glass sliding doors and 2 garage doors. Big place down there.

100% agree with you about the bathrooms and placement.

Hopefully this links works. It shows the vent you were talking about for the master bathroom and then show the two vents in the front of the house.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Lisa%20Irwin%20%20-MO-/?action=view&current=1019hh.jpg#!oZZ100QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2F s296.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fmm166%2Fcrankycran kerson%2FLisa%2520Irwin%2520%2520-MO-%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3D6-1-1.png

Of course it is a tiny white dot on the back of the house for the master bath.

Marple
10-22-2011, 04:21 PM
I don't understand the whole "computer room". I know it's where they did their computing but why is that room so large? A ranch house built in 1958, I guess it could be intended as a den or family room.

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 04:28 PM
In the video of the house walkthrough, the reporter comes in through the front door, turns right, walks along the narrow part of the kitchen where the fridge is, into a wider part of the kitchen (where's he's standing in the screen shot), and then through the door of the computer room. Lisa's bedroom is the bedroom we see off the kitchen.

Watch the video ALL THE WAY THROUGH, FOLKS!

ETA: Along the back wall leading into the computer room, I don't see any breaks or turns...looks like it's a flat wall all the way from Lisa's bedroom door to the door of the computer room. Of course, all the walls are white, so maybe I just can't a break or a turn?

Patty G
10-22-2011, 04:29 PM
I think the reporter is standing where I marked in red.....

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/picture.php?pictureid=12949&albumid=1498&dl=1319313834&thumb=1

So you think he is standing in the kitchen?

Patty G
10-22-2011, 04:30 PM
In the video of the house walkthrough, the reporter comes in through the front door, turns right, walks along the narrow part of the kitchen where the fridge is, into a wider part of the kitche (where's he's standing in the screen shot), and then through the door of the computer room. Lisa's bedroom is the bedroom we see off the kitchen.

Watch the video ALL THE WAY THROUGH, FOLKS!

To save an old lady from searching for the video, do you have it handy?

Patty G
10-22-2011, 04:32 PM
In the video of the house walkthrough, the reporter comes in through the front door, turns right, walks along the narrow part of the kitchen where the fridge is, into a wider part of the kitche (where's he's standing in the screen shot), and then through the door of the computer room. Lisa's bedroom is the bedroom we see off the kitchen.

Watch the video ALL THE WAY THROUGH, FOLKS!

So you still feel Lisa's bedroom is in the middle?

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 04:35 PM
So you still feel Lisa's bedroom is in the middle?

The room closest to the computer room, that you can see from the kitchen.

ETA: Here's the video...walkthrough starts at around the :48 mark.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/lisa-irwin-a-look-inside-the-home-26863873.html#crsl=%252Fvideo%252Fus-15749625%252Flisa-irwin-a-look-inside-the-home-26863873.html

Marple
10-22-2011, 04:40 PM
I'm wondering what room you enter if you come through that entry door on the deck. I would be surprised if you came in to a huge "computer room" and wonder if that space isn't divided, perhaps a laundry area first (mud room) and a bedroom or something like that. That would make the house four bedrooms.

I also still think the doorway shown behind the reporter looks more like a mirror on a door. JMHO

Patty G
10-22-2011, 04:40 PM
Does anyone feel there are two entrances to the computer room; well maybe three?

I am thinking a door to the computer room, off the kitchen, then a door at the other end of the room, and then perhaps a door of some type to the deck?

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 04:43 PM
Does anyone feel there are two entrances to the computer room; well maybe three?

I am thinking a door to the computer room, off the kitchen, then a door at the other end of the room, and then perhaps a door of some type to the deck?
Yes yes and yes

That's what I've been saying. If we are right and this was originally 2 rooms - then there would have to be another doorway down towards the end - which I say opens on to a hallway that runs along the bedrooms and ends at the master bedroom.

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 04:44 PM
I'm wondering what room you enter if you come through that entry door on the deck. I would be surprised if you came in to a huge "computer room" and wonder if that space isn't divided, perhaps a laundry area first (mud room) and a bedroom or something like that. That would make the house four bedrooms.

I also still think the doorway shown behind the reporter looks more like a mirror on a door. JMHO

Coming in through the back deck you enter the computer room (which is really like a 2nd living room, according to Debbie).

The doorway you see is a doorway, not a mirror. You can see Lisa's crib inside with the stuff piled up inside it.

Patty G
10-22-2011, 05:07 PM
So as he walks through the small kitchen area where the fridge is located, and heads into what must be a different part of the kitchen that has a wall, I am thinking behind that wall, on the same side as Lisa bedroom would be the boys bedroom. This would make Baby Lisa's bedroom in the middle.

Thoughts anyone?

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 05:10 PM
So as he walks through the small kitchen area where the fridge is located, and heads into what must be a different part of the kitchen that has a wall, I am thinking behind that wall, on the same side as Lisa bedroom would be the boys bedroom. This would make Baby Lisa's bedroom in the middle.

Thoughts anyone?

Can't be. Jeremy stated that the boys wouldn't have heard anything because their bedroom was on the other end of the house from the computer room.

(Please don't make me search for that video! LOL!)

ETA: Here's the video from inside Lisa's bedroom...maybe that will help.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/inside-baby-lisas-home-14693905

Patty G
10-22-2011, 05:16 PM
Can be. Jeremy stated that the boys wouldn't have heard anything because their bedroom was on the other end of the house from the computer room.

(Please don't make me search for that video! LOL!)

I heard that video and that doesn't make any sense because the then Master Bedroom is on the wrong side of the house in the floor plan and I think we are in agreement that the Master Bedroom is on the driveway side of the house.

Also, that main bathroom, the wall opposite the fridge that continues through the other part of the kitchen, I think that is the main bath and it would fit with the vent.

So there must be an entrance to the bathroom, in the hallway, opposite the bedrooms for the bathroom.

Thoughts!

Patty G
10-22-2011, 05:21 PM
Dan Harris from ABC News has Twitter account. I think I will contact him and see what he shares. :crazy:

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 06:25 PM
I heard that video and that doesn't make any sense because the then Master Bedroom is on the wrong side of the house in the floor plan and I think we are in agreement that the Master Bedroom is on the driveway side of the house.

Also, that main bathroom, the wall opposite the fridge that continues through the other part of the kitchen, I think that is the main bath and it would fit with the vent.

So there must be an entrance to the bathroom, in the hallway, opposite the bedrooms for the bathroom.

Thoughts!

Typo in my original post, Patty. I meant to say "Can't be", not "can be". Lisa's bedroom has to be the bedroom closest to the computer room because Jeremy tells us the boys couldn't have heard the tampering with the computer room window because their room is at the other end of the house. In another interview, he says his room is on the opposite CORNER end of the house. So the room order must be master bedroom, bathroom, boys room, Lisa's room, computer room. See what I mean?

(Seriously, giving myself a manicure TOnight.)

matou
10-22-2011, 06:45 PM
Off topic: where's BeanE?

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 07:08 PM
Can't be. Jeremy stated that the boys wouldn't have heard anything because their bedroom was on the other end of the house from the computer room.

(Please don't make me search for that video! LOL!)

ETA: Here's the video from inside Lisa's bedroom...maybe that will help.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/inside-baby-lisas-home-14693905
Only thing I can think of is that JI was talking about the front wall and the back wall of the house. The computer room window was on the front wall of the house and the boys bedroom is on the back wall of the - hence the "opposite"?

I really do remember both JI and DB saying early on that Lisa' bedroom was in between their bedroom and the boys - JI said that he walked by the boys room - noticed only one boy and then passed Lisa room to go into the master where DB was.

truthsleuth
10-22-2011, 07:13 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/21/justice/missouri-missing-girl/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

In speaking with NBC, and reported by CNN, Jeremy Irwin said it's possible someone could have entered the house without Bradley hearing, as the couple's bedroom is on the opposite corner of the house from Lisa's room and Bradley sleeps with a fan at high speed.

That pretty much explains it, no?

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 07:16 PM
And here we have JI saying the boys room wasn't near the computer room.

http://www.kmbc.com/r/29404237/detail.html

Reporter: “Did the boys hear anything at all? You said you, you, you had to wake the boys. Did, did they not hear anything coming in the window, or…?”

JI: “Uh, I don’t think so. The window that was open is nowhere near their bedroom, so, I don’t think they heard anything or, they’re both pretty heavy sleepers.”

So I'm sticking with what I think is the room order: Master bedroom, bath, boys room, Lisa's room, computer room.

Patty G
10-22-2011, 07:18 PM
Only thing I can think of is that JI was talking about the front wall and the back wall of the house. The computer room window was on the front wall of the house and the boys bedroom is on the back wall of the - hence the "opposite"?

I really do remember both JI and DB saying early on that Lisa' bedroom was in between their bedroom and the boys - JI said that he walked by the boys room - noticed only one boy and then passed Lisa room to go into the master where DB was.

That is exactly what I heard too, JI walked past the boys room, noticed only one boy in the room, then passed Lisa's room to go to the master bedroom. Phew, now that makes two of us.

Patty G
10-22-2011, 07:23 PM
I am going to tweet the reporter, do you have any questions about the layout of the home?

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 07:25 PM
I am going to tweet the reporter, do you have any questions about the layout of the home?
YES!

Where is Lisa's room?

Is there a "back" hallway that runs the length of the bedrooms?

Did he get in the basement and if he did, how big is it and what is down there?

Also, the deck - it looks rotten and very unstable to me - is it? Or are we just seeing weathered wood?

Are there 2 doorways in the computer room and does it run the entire width of the house?

Where are the stairs to go down to the basement?

lol - that enough for ya?

:floorlaugh:

Patty G
10-22-2011, 07:36 PM
And here we have JI saying the boys room wasn't near the computer room.

http://www.kmbc.com/r/29404237/detail.html

Reporter: “Did the boys hear anything at all? You said you, you, you had to wake the boys. Did, did they not hear anything coming in the window, or…?”

JI: “Uh, I don’t think so. The window that was open is nowhere near their bedroom, so, I don’t think they heard anything or, they’re both pretty heavy sleepers.”

So I'm sticking with what I think is the room order: Master bedroom, bath, boys room, Lisa's room, computer room.

Time for me to ask some questions and see if I can get some answer on the location of the boys room to complete this floor plan. :)

otto
10-22-2011, 07:39 PM
Here is the latest ... although I haven't looked through the more recent comments yet

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/LisaFloorplan_4.jpg

carole
10-22-2011, 07:45 PM
Why would a stranger break in through that window on the front of the house and go all the way through the kitchen, living room, past the stairs, turn right into the hallway and left into the baby's room when there appears to be a window on the back side of the house and Lisa's bed is right there near that window? No way is this a stranger abduction. That baby is dead and I don't understand why the mom has not been arrested for child neglect or child endangerment since she was drunk while the kids were in her care.

BBM

There were two dogs in the backyard. But I don't think anyone broke into the house.

Patty G
10-22-2011, 07:49 PM
Posts lands at random. :)

Let's try and keep this thread for the floor plan. We are working on bits and pieces and short clips of news stories, etc., so Otto can work on the floor plan. THanks.

Patty G
10-22-2011, 07:50 PM
Otto, I really like this floor plan. :blowkiss:

Geralyn
10-22-2011, 07:57 PM
Only thing I can think of is that JI was talking about the front wall and the back wall of the house. The computer room window was on the front wall of the house and the boys bedroom is on the back wall of the - hence the "opposite"?

I really do remember both JI and DB saying early on that Lisa' bedroom was in between their bedroom and the boys - JI said that he walked by the boys room - noticed only one boy and then passed Lisa room to go into the master where DB was.

Walked by the boys room? Didn't we hear previously that he had "checked" on the boys? I wonder if by "checking" he meant looked thru the open door as he passed.

laytonian
10-22-2011, 07:57 PM
:


Look on the roof. There are little "vent type" outlets. They usually give a clue where the toilets - or water lines in the hosue are.

(gentle snipping)

Don't forget the furnace vent. It would look like a plumbing vent.

Also: That "computer room" looks like an add-on, doesn't it? It would explain why there's an under-house garage area.

Geralyn
10-22-2011, 08:00 PM
Here is the latest ... although I haven't looked through the more recent comments yet

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/LisaFloorplan_4.jpg


Gosh, you're good!

Okay...using the previous picture of the reporter standing in the kitchen, or what we think is the kitchen...with Baby Lisa's bedroom showing in the background...we can see her crib..and window. Thats the only thing that I can't seem to reconcile with your diagram here, but it sure looks close (and detailed!) otherwise. Thank you.

laytonian
10-22-2011, 08:01 PM
I don't understand the whole "computer room". I know it's where they did their computing but why is that room so large? A ranch house built in 1958, I guess it could be intended as a den or family room.

It looks like an add-on, or converted garage. It doesn't connect correctly to the rest of the house. On HGTV, rooms like that (without closets) are called "bonus rooms". They add to square footage, but aren't living space.

Looking from the front, the architecture of the house is off-kilter. Picture it without the right 1/3, and you'll see a 1958-style bungalow.

otto
10-22-2011, 08:02 PM
(gentle snipping)

Don't forget the furnace vent. It would look like a plumbing vent.

Also: That "computer room" looks like an add-on, doesn't it? It would explain why there's an under-house garage area.

I think the garage is under the master bedroom. The computer room does look like a bit of an add on, but it could also have been two rooms that were opened up into one.

Chewy
10-22-2011, 08:16 PM
I don't get why dogs wouldn't bark at someone climbing in the front window.

I also don't see why a person trying to break into a home wouldn't check to see if the doors were unlocked first. There are several door entrances to this house.

If she left the door open the perp would simply walk in. It seems like she is saying that they broke in the front window and then went out the front door.

But the lights going on makes no sense.

Please note, that would mean that although the perp had a direct access to Lisa's room, going through the kitchen and grabbing the phones, they went out of their way all the way over to the Living room and turned on the lights?

Makes no sense.

marge_rita
10-22-2011, 08:20 PM
Where do we put our post that pertain to the floor-plan but indirectly? tia

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 08:20 PM
Maybe something more like this? There is something off with the area around the stairs, the bathroom and the entrance to the computer room ... don't know what, but it seems like something doesn't fit quite right.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/LisaFloorplan_3a.jpg

In my opinion, this is the floor plan that is most correct. Except that there is no dividing wall jutting out in the kitchen where you've marked "cell phones charging". Kitchen is completely open.

(And now, I am butting out.) :)

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 08:21 PM
Here is the latest ... although I haven't looked through the more recent comments yet

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/LisaFloorplan_4.jpg
BY GEORGE (oops) OTTO I think you got it!!!!

That is great. Yes, it is what I think is as close as we can get - until we get some more clarification as to where certain rooms are.

Otto - :yourock:

Thankx again!!!!

Patty G
10-22-2011, 08:26 PM
Here is the video for the tour of the house with the reporter starting around ~26 seconds

http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/lisa-irwin-a-look-inside-the-home-26863873.html#crsl=%252Fvideo%252Fus-15749625%252Flisa-irwin-a-look-inside-the-home-26863873.html

Keep in mind as the reporter goes from the living room through the narrow kitchen (with refrig) the opposite wall is the wall for the stairs in the floor plan.

Once he passes that stairway wall, he is in another part, presumably the kitchen and that is where we see Lisa bedroom.

However, there is question, if the long wall in that extended kitchen, means that the boy's bedroom, is behind that wall, but on the same side as Baby Lisa's bedroom.

Am I making any sense?


Otto, please shorten the steps by 12 steps from the computer room back and leave an open space so the door way to Lisa's bedroom is visible from the extended kitchen.

Also, shorten the wall on the kitchen side to match at least 4 steps showing, but leave the solid wall on the other side there.

I can't find the right words to describe what I mean. :(

Patty G
10-22-2011, 08:28 PM
What program are you using to do the floor plan?

Turtles
10-22-2011, 08:29 PM
It looks like an add-on, or converted garage. It doesn't connect correctly to the rest of the house. On HGTV, rooms like that (without closets) are called "bonus rooms". They add to square footage, but aren't living space.

Looking from the front, the architecture of the house is off-kilter. Picture it without the right 1/3, and you'll see a 1958-style bungalow.

My bedroom growing up was like the computer room and it was a carport at one time.

otto
10-22-2011, 08:54 PM
What program are you using to do the floor plan?

REVIT ... it's like AutoCAD, but 3D.

I've tweaked it a little more. What would really help are overall dimensions of the building ... there were some earlier posts but I couldn't access the sites. Does anyone know if there were overall house dimensions on those sites?

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/LisaFloorplan_5.jpg

Patty G
10-22-2011, 09:28 PM
I have been looking for dimensions of the house too! In my county, under my tax records, it gives my floor plan.

captdj
10-22-2011, 09:28 PM
anyone think the stairs are extended the same width as a bedroom as shown??

seems like in my house only about 5-6 steps are using the upstairs floor plan and the other 8 steps have enough headroom from the lower floor...

Hope Im explaining it well enough...that all 12 steps doesn't need to take up 12-14 ft of the 1st level floor space...but it could be....

otto
10-22-2011, 09:31 PM
anyone think the stairs are extended the same width as a bedroom as shown??

seems like in my house only about 5-6 steps are using the upstairs floor plan and the other 8 steps have enough headroom from the lower floor...

Hope Im explaining it well enough...that all 12 steps doesn't need to take up 12-14 ft of the 1st level floor space...but it could be....

Quite true ... they could turn as well ... I could move the stairs closer to the computer room wall and have them turn half way. Will make that change in a bit ... that might tighten up the floor plan.

Patty G
10-22-2011, 09:37 PM
anyone think the stairs are extended the same width as a bedroom as shown??

seems like in my house only about 5-6 steps are using the upstairs floor plan and the other 8 steps have enough headroom from the lower floor...

Hope Im explaining it well enough...that all 12 steps doesn't need to take up 12-14 ft of the 1st level floor space...but it could be....

Just picture the floor plan without the steps showing and just look at it as a wall.

Patty G
10-22-2011, 10:03 PM
Otto,

Would you kindly try one more thing please, would you remove the steps for now, and just leave the wall there. This would be the wall to frame out the hallway.

I attached a pic and highlighted the area to be removed, and perhaps just put a door or notation that the steps are here, if there are steps at this point.

I can't thank you enough for doing this floor plan. I have been playing with one myself, but clearly, mine is nothing in comparison to yours. You are awesome.

otto
10-22-2011, 10:16 PM
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/LisaFloorplan_5a.jpg

otto
10-22-2011, 10:23 PM
Otto,

Would you kindly try one more thing please, would you remove the steps for now, and just leave the wall there. This would be the wall to frame out the hallway.

I attached a pic and highlighted the area to be removed, and perhaps just put a door or notation that the steps are here, if there are steps at this point.

I can't thank you enough for doing this floor plan. I have been playing with one myself, but clearly, mine is nothing in comparison to yours. You are awesome.

Here's without the stairs ... it's pretty easy to do with architectural software.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/LisaFloorplan_6.jpg

Patty G
10-22-2011, 10:29 PM
This is perfect. :blowkiss:

otto
10-22-2011, 11:49 PM
There do have to be stairs somewhere, so I think the stairs were probably in the correct area, but more likely they were L shaped as in the last version before removing the stairs.

marge_rita
10-22-2011, 11:51 PM
Does looking at Otto's excellent floor plans make anyone think taking baby Lisa is more possible? tia

gwenabob
10-23-2011, 03:18 AM
Where do the kids bathe? Wouldn't they need a bathtub as well? Wouldn't the full bathroom open to the hallway?

Also, I think the boys and Lisa's rooms might be switched. When watching the video of the reporter, I don't remember seeing 2 bedroom doors when he walked from the kitchen to the computer room. Only one, and I think that was Lisa's room.

Patty G
10-23-2011, 08:37 AM
Where do the kids bathe? Wouldn't they need a bathtub as well? Wouldn't the full bathroom open to the hallway?

Also, I think the boys and Lisa's rooms might be switched. When watching the video of the reporter, I don't remember seeing 2 bedroom doors when he walked from the kitchen to the computer room. Only one, and I think that was Lisa's room.

otto did a basic floor plan just to give us an idea on the way the house it set up. It was difficult to see how many doors were anywhere as the reporter was going into the computer room, so for now, doors are added just to put them there.

Some of us are thinking that the boy's bedroom is behind the wall of the bigger part of the kitchen. You wouldn't be able to see the boy's door behind that wall.

IN the video, at ~59 seconds, the wall with all the pictures on it, some of us think that on the opposite side of that wall next to Lisa's room, is the boy's room. We are not 100% sure!

http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749625/lisa-irwin-a-look-inside-the-home-26863873.html#crsl=%252Fvideo%252Fus-15749625%252Flisa-irwin-a-look-inside-the-home-26863873.html

Floor plan is a work in progress.

Bathrooms are only showing a toilet just to distinguish they are a bathroom.

Patty G
10-23-2011, 08:52 AM
There do have to be stairs somewhere, so I think the stairs were probably in the correct area, but more likely they were L shaped as in the last version before removing the stairs.

I am wondering if there was access to the stairs on the wall in the living room that also has the main bathroom. That would mean the door to the basement was in the living room.

In my previous house, access to my stairs was in the hallway, of which, would be where the door is for the main bathroom.

I sure hope I hear back from ABC.

Patty G
10-23-2011, 09:14 AM
New video of the house. Starting at 1:33 in the computer room.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844

Now it appears there are three doors to the computer room. See the back wall, there appears to be a door at the back on left perhaps closed off and then an opening at the back towards what we believe to be a hallway.

1:41 in kitchen door on left appears to be the door that maybe closed off.

Also the attorney is going up the stairs ~1:48

Master bedroom shown ~1:55 and I can't quite see a bathroom suite in that room. It appears to be small. Master bedroom shows up again ~2:25

Marple
10-23-2011, 10:43 AM
I think the garage is under the master bedroom. The computer room does look like a bit of an add on, but it could also have been two rooms that were opened up into one.

Hi Otto, great job on the floor plan!

I just wanted to add to your comment about the computer room possibly being two rooms opened up into one. I don't believe it's an add on because the brick around the house appears to be consistent and original. I do believe it was a dining area on the front and a bedroom on the back and then the wall was torn down to make a big bonus room.

What I can't figure out is where the back door would have been before remodeling. I assume all homes have a front door and a back door when they are originally built and if the back door we see now is original, it doesn't seem likely that it was a fourth bedroom.

When I first saw the house, I assumed the living room was an add on because of the driveway being on that side of the house. I pictured a carport being where the living room is now. But then that vision doesn't work when I see how you enter the front door because that would mean you basically entered the home and stepped right into the kitchen!

Cher352
10-23-2011, 11:25 AM
Great job Otto!!!

Check out this video, beginning at 1:39 the lawyer is walking throught the house, might help you find tune your drawing right down to furniture placement. Definately is a staircase just can't fiqure out where it is. Note the master BD is very small, doesn't appear to be another door to a bathroom to me.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844

Marple
10-23-2011, 11:39 AM
Where are they standing in this video? At about 1:21, they embrace in what appears to be a dining area with access to a large deck. It's on the video of the lawyer doing the walk through but I assume it is a different home since they have not been back to their home, as I understand from media reports.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 11:40 AM
Okay, so I was right...it is a straight wall that Lisa's bedroom door is on. NO HALLWAY going past it. NO DOOR to another bedroom, or to the basement, here.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844 (@ 1:41 mark)

In the computer room, there appears to be a room that juts out near the back door (bathroom maybe). The other door you see, near the TV must either be a closet or lead directly into Lisa's bedroom.

No...the boys room is NOT near the computer room. The order of rooms IS what I said it was:

1. Master bedroom
2. bathroom
3.boys room
4. Lisa's bedroom

And you can not get to Lisa's room from the parents room via a hall. There is no hall. You have to walk through the kitchen to access it.

ETA: Oh wait...that door you see in the computer room by the TV is the door to the stairs going down to the basement! You can see the computer room panelling at the top of the stairs! :)

Lato
10-23-2011, 12:04 PM
Otto....thanks a lot....love what you have done. It might have already been said, but I
think the front part of the computer room would be a dining area for most families and the rear part would be the den. Have we seen any tables and chairs for eating meals?
Again, thank you.

otto
10-23-2011, 01:31 PM
Lots of updates ... let me start by removing the hallway ... switching the bedrooms ... and stairs off the

LadyPirate
10-23-2011, 01:44 PM
The door on the back wall of the computer room....the one like it's in an offset, I think that goes to the deck on the back of the house. The stair entry may very well be right there too, but on the left as you walk to that door.

otto
10-23-2011, 02:00 PM
I'm not sure about the stairs ...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/lisafloorplan6.jpg

otto
10-23-2011, 02:00 PM
The door on the back wall of the computer room....the one like it's in an offset, I think that goes to the deck on the back of the house. The stair entry may very well be right there too, but on the left as you walk to that door.

That's my only guess for the location for the stairs as well.

otto
10-23-2011, 02:05 PM
Where are they standing in this video? At about 1:21, they embrace in what appears to be a dining area with access to a large deck. It's on the video of the lawyer doing the walk through but I assume it is a different home since they have not been back to their home, as I understand from media reports.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844

I was wondering that too. Is there a deck at the front of the house?

otto
10-23-2011, 02:19 PM
In the video, when leaving the computer room, there is a solid wall as the lawyer walks towards the kitchen. There is a door on the right - a bedroom. Later, at 2:19, as she enters the baby's room, there is another wall next to the door - on the left - that appears to have a thermostat on it. This leads me to think that the door on the right, when leaving the computer room, is not the baby's room. Also, I agree with the comment above that it does not look like there is a bathroom off the master bedroom, although there is no footage of that corner of the room ... but there is some stuff in that corner of the room that would block a door if it were there.

Work in progress ...

I've removed the deck in front ... I think that dining room shot is from another house.

gwenabob
10-23-2011, 02:21 PM
I suspect that the main bathroom opens not from the master b/r. but into the hall. I also think the other bath is a half bath, and that it shares that space with a coat closet. Most of the homes built during that time would have a coat/utility closet somewhere. Also, I am pretty sure the news has said that the front window in the corner opens into the computer room. I think it takes the whole length. I also noticed that there is a fireplace in the computer room, toward the front of the house and it shares a wall with the kitchen area.

otto
10-23-2011, 02:45 PM
Lisa's bedroom door question ...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/lisabedroomdoorquestion.jpg

I'm fairly certain that the area in red is correct ... not sure about the rest. Could the door, now marked as boy's bedroom (again) be a door to a hallway leading to the bedrooms?

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/lisafloorplan7b.jpg

LadyPirate
10-23-2011, 02:53 PM
I think you are really close, except for the front deck which you said you were removing, and the computer room is the entire width of the house. No divider.

otto
10-23-2011, 03:22 PM
Here's where it's at right now ... gotta run out for a bit ... will check in later to see if there are suggestions to resolve the last part of the floor plan.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/lisafloorplan8.jpg

gwenabob
10-23-2011, 03:29 PM
Yep. I think that is it!

Patty G
10-23-2011, 05:08 PM
Otto, can you flip the floor plan to show the back of the house like it is in the attached photo leaving the name of the rooms there to show their placement? Thanks.

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 05:18 PM
Wait...I think there are two doors going into Lisa's room! One door in the kitchen and one door in the computer room!

Let me go back and look at the video again and see if there's a thermostat by what I thought was a closet door in the computer room.

Is it possible there's also a bathroom off the computer room with a door that connects to Lisa's room? From the angle of her crib in the thermostat pic, you would have to be entering her room from somewhere off the computer room.

Patty G
10-23-2011, 05:22 PM
This is the doorway that the reporter passed when we saw Lisa's bedroom.

Patty G
10-23-2011, 05:27 PM
Here is the corner of the house for reference. I just want to make sure there was a MB window on the end, and there is. :)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Q & A ~ Ask a question, leave an answer. NO DISCUSSIONS

Patty G
10-23-2011, 05:36 PM
This pic is the only pic I see that has another doorway, off the computer room. Could that white door lead to the hallway?

Somehow we have to get to the deck from this room and that one door is not going to do it! I am wondering if there is another room behind that white door.

Could that door be to a bedroom, more so then to the deck considering they have steps to get on the deck from the side of the house.

I think the wall with the bookcase is the where the staircase is located.

yllek
10-23-2011, 05:37 PM
Thanks otto!

So, looks to me like there is a bathroom with the door just across from Lisa's door. While drinking wine for approximately 4 hours, I think there had to have been a couple of potty breaks, at least. Debbi nor the neighbor ever peeked in on Lisa when they went in the house? Even though she was sick and standing up the last time Debbi saw her? I don't get it, at all

Patty G
10-23-2011, 05:46 PM
Another pic of the back of the house.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Q & A ~ Ask a question, leave an answer. NO DISCUSSIONS

panthera
10-23-2011, 05:49 PM
Thanks otto!

So, looks to me like there is a bathroom with the door just across from Lisa's door. While drinking wine for approximately 4 hours, I think there had to have been a couple of potty breaks, at least. Debbi nor the neighbor ever peeked in on Lisa when they went in the house? Even though she was sick and standing up the last time Debbi saw her? I don't get it, at all

Good point! I still find that almost four hour time gap very unbelievable, especially if Lisa was sick. At some point she would be awake and crying for someone or trying to get out of the crib.

MOO

Wise Old Owl
10-23-2011, 05:52 PM
Good point! I still find that almost four hour time gap very unbelievable, especially if Lisa was sick. At some point she would be awake and crying for someone or trying to get out of the crib.

MOO
Or at least need some type of hydration - especially if sick. Four hours is a long time for a 10 month old to go without a change or some juice or water or just a rocking and a song. ITA panthera

Patty G
10-23-2011, 06:09 PM
Picture of the window where it is "alleged" entry was made. The doorway is from the kitchen, the way the reporter went through.

The other side of the computer room showing the white door.

I am beginning to wonder if this computer room is not the full length of the house. Maybe it is only half and then there area for the bedrooms.

This house is so chopped up!

Could the boys bedroom be where the white door is located and there is actually no exit to the deck?

lauriej
10-23-2011, 06:09 PM
------shots of the back of the house and back yard.

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb474/lauriejcampbell/listerbackwithdeck.jpg


http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb474/lauriejcampbell/listerbackandyard.jpg

yllek
10-23-2011, 06:12 PM
I would surely like to invite Debbi's drinking buddy over for a chicken dinner, some boxed wine, and a little innocent (ahem) conversation!

Seriously, c'mon. Did drinking buddy see Lisa that night? Did Debbi let her use the bathroom? What time did Lisa's little brothers last see her?

All of the media appearances by the parents and their handlers, none of the usual basic details provided. Smells.

panthera
10-23-2011, 06:13 PM
Picture of the window where it is "alleged" entry was made. The doorway is from the kitchen, the way the reporter went through.

The other side of the computer room showing the white door.

I am beginning to wonder if this computer room is not the full length of the house. Maybe it is only half and then there area for the bedrooms.

This house is so chopped up!

Could the boys bedroom be where the white door is located and there is actually no exit to the deck?
BBM

The more I look at the floor plan, the less I believe someone came into the house at night, took Lisa from her crib and got out of the house without making a noise. First of all, they would have to know the layout of the home to even try to accomplish this, and then avoid squeaks in the hardwood floors.

lauriej
10-23-2011, 06:19 PM
..attorney cyndyS coming up the stairs in GMA video.

http://i1207.photobucket.com/albums/bb474/lauriejcampbell/cyndycomingupfromthebasement.jpg


http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844

josie1986
10-23-2011, 06:27 PM
something ive noticed is there doesn't seem to be any baby gates in the house....especially on those stairs.my house is like baby jail theres so many.

having a baby thats crawling/walking u dont really want them roaming about the house getting into things they shouldnt or taking a tumble down a set of stairs IMO

Hoodie
10-23-2011, 06:29 PM
I'd like to know what baby protection devices there were-gates, doorknobs, cabinet latches, alarms? I don't get having kids in the house and not locking the doors-not to keep people from getting in-to keep children in...my kids were Houdinis! Hi key locks on the main door and sliders....
Just saying...

quadlatte
10-23-2011, 06:36 PM
Otto, IMO you are so close... I just feel that the bathrooms are not quite right.

We pretty much agree that there is 1.5 on top, and one on the bottom... It just looks a bit redundant to have the bathrooms across from each other, with their doors practically opening into each other.

I can't see how the 0.5 bath would fit doorway-wise into the master, but according to the outlets on the roof, I suppose that's where it has to be.

Could the full bath be a Jack N Jill between the boys and Lisa's rooms?

Nevermind...

twall
10-23-2011, 06:53 PM
Picture of the window where it is "alleged" entry was made. The doorway is from the kitchen, the way the reporter went through.

The other side of the computer room showing the white door.

I am beginning to wonder if this computer room is not the full length of the house. Maybe it is only half and then there area for the bedrooms.

This house is so chopped up!

Could the boys bedroom be where the white door is located and there is actually no exit to the deck?

IMO the computer room is the full width of the house. In one of the photo's on the assessor's site I can clearly see a door leading to the deck on the end of the home where the computer room is.

otto
10-23-2011, 07:18 PM
Otto, can you flip the floor plan to show the back of the house like it is in the attached photo leaving the name of the rooms there to show their placement? Thanks.

Like this?

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/LisaRearHouse1.jpg

twall
10-23-2011, 07:39 PM
Otto, if you want dimensions to work with the property appraiser site has the foundation as 26X53.

otto
10-23-2011, 07:42 PM
Picture of the window where it is "alleged" entry was made. The doorway is from the kitchen, the way the reporter went through.

The other side of the computer room showing the white door.

I am beginning to wonder if this computer room is not the full length of the house. Maybe it is only half and then there area for the bedrooms.

This house is so chopped up!

Could the boys bedroom be where the white door is located and there is actually no exit to the deck?

I think the computer room is the full width of the house and the white door is the door to the deck. I think just to the left of the white door is the stairwell going down. The white door can also be seen from outside on the deck.

otto
10-23-2011, 07:43 PM
Otto, if you want dimensions to work with the property appraiser site has the foundation as 26X53.

Thank you! That helps. Right now the size is 30 x 60, so I'll squish it down to 26 x 53.

otto
10-23-2011, 07:44 PM
Otto, IMO you are so close... I just feel that the bathrooms are not quite right.

We pretty much agree that there is 1.5 on top, and one on the bottom... It just looks a bit redundant to have the bathrooms across from each other, with their doors practically opening into each other.

I can't see how the 0.5 bath would fit doorway-wise into the master, but according to the outlets on the roof, I suppose that's where it has to be.

Could the full bath be a Jack N Jill between the boys and Lisa's rooms?

Nevermind...

I'm wondering if there could be a laundry area where the second bathroom is.

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 07:49 PM
Just zoomed in on the reporter shot in front of Lisa's room...there IS a hallway going past her door.

Dang. I never saw that before. So it's the door to the hallway we see from the kitchen, and Lisa's doorway just through the door to the hallway! And the thermostat we see on the wall by Lisa's door is on the wall in the hallway.

Geez. I'm blind.

Patty G
10-23-2011, 07:59 PM
IMO the computer room is the full width of the house. In one of the photo's on the assessor's site I can clearly see a door leading to the deck on the end of the home where the computer room is.

I see a door, but no clue if that door actually leads to the deck. It appears to be a single wide door, of which, is OK, but normally there are sliding glass doors.

YUP, I understand they could have changed the door sometime ago.

All I am doing is throwing things out there because it is difficult to piece this house together.

Patty G
10-23-2011, 08:03 PM
Just zoomed in on the reporter shot in front of Lisa's room...there IS a hallway going past her door.

Dang. I never saw that before. So it's the door to the hallway we see from the kitchen, and Lisa's doorway just through the door to the hallway!

Sure would like to know if once you are facing Lisa room, if there is a hallway going right towards the computer room, and if there is a room closer to the computer room.

I am just stuck with Lisa in the middle, and maybe this is because of the first floor plan shown so early on with Lisa's room in the middle. :banghead:

Patty G
10-23-2011, 08:05 PM
Otto, if you want dimensions to work with the property appraiser site has the foundation as 26X53.

Do you have a link to that site please. Thanks.

Patty G
10-23-2011, 08:08 PM
Like this?

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/LisaRearHouse1.jpg

Yupper! Thank you.

Patty G
10-23-2011, 08:13 PM
I'm wondering if there could be a laundry area where the second bathroom is.

IF there was a laundry room in the second bath, they would have to vent the dryer out somehow. I'm thinking that the laundry room is downstairs.

twall
10-23-2011, 08:13 PM
The stairs down to the basement aren't wide enough to take up all that space at the end of the computer room. I'm telling you, there's a bathroom or something there too, and that's where the lawyer entered Lisa's bedroom from the 2nd time (where the thermostat was). Couldn't be any other direction BUT from a room off the computer room because of the angle of Lisa's crib in that shot.

And again, there is no hall going past Lisa's bedroom. Not that I can see anywhere.

How wide do you think the space at the end of the computer room is? My living room used to be a 2 car garage, 20'x22', with the enclosed basement stairwell at the back of the room. I just measured the outside stairwell walls and they measure 3'3"x15'. (hubby asked me if I was selling the house, lol)

I see a hall through the kitchen doorway looking into Lisa's bedroom on the first walk through with the reporter. I think her bedroom is in the middle and the boy's room is to the right if you are standing facing Lisa's bedroom door. The angles don't match up on the reporter walk through video, you don't see the boy's room because it is behind the kitchen wall where the table is. If you look at the video of the lawyer where she bends down and tries to pick up the carpet from the master bedroom floor and look at the paint color outside the bedroom it is the same color as when she is walking into Lisa's room on the wall where the thermostat is.

otto
10-23-2011, 08:13 PM
Just zoomed in on the reporter shot in front of Lisa's room...there IS a hallway going past her door.

Dang. I never saw that before. So it's the door to the hallway we see from the kitchen, and Lisa's doorway just through the door to the hallway! And the thermostat we see on the wall by Lisa's door is on the wall in the hallway.

Geez. I'm blind.

That helps ... and makes sense. So the door off the kitchen enters to the bedroom hallway. Thank you.

otto
10-23-2011, 08:14 PM
How wide do you think the space at the end of the computer room is? My living room used to be a 2 car garage, 20'x22', with the enclosed basement stairwell at the back of the room. I just measured the outside stairwell walls and they measure 3'3"x15'. (hubby asked me if I was selling the house, lol)

I see a hall through the kitchen doorway looking into Lisa's bedroom on the first walk through with the reporter. I think her bedroom is in the middle and the boy's room is to the right if you are standing facing Lisa's bedroom door. The angles don't match up on the reporter walk through video, you don't see the boy's room because it is behind the kitchen wall where the table is. If you look at the video of the lawyer where she bends down and tries to pick up the carpet from the master bedroom floor and look at the paint color outside the bedroom it is the same color as when she is walking into Lisa's room on the wall where the thermostat is.

So are you thinking that Lisa's bedroom is in the middle?

twall
10-23-2011, 08:15 PM
Do you have a link to that site please. Thanks.

http://gisweb.claycogov.com/realEstate/realEstate.jsp

otto
10-23-2011, 08:15 PM
IF there was a laundry room in the second bath, they would have to vent the dryer out somehow. I'm thinking that the laundry room is downstairs.

Most likely ... that's where it was typically put in houses with a basement from that time period.

Patty G
10-23-2011, 08:17 PM
How wide do you think the space at the end of the computer room is? My living room used to be a 2 car garage, 20'x22', with the enclosed basement stairwell at the back of the room. I just measured the outside stairwell walls and they measure 3'3"x15'. (hubby asked me if I was selling the house, lol)

I see a hall through the kitchen doorway looking into Lisa's bedroom on the first walk through with the reporter. I think her bedroom is in the middle and the boy's room is to the right if you are standing facing Lisa's bedroom door. The angles don't match up on the reporter walk through video, you don't see the boy's room because it is behind the kitchen wall where the table is. If you look at the video of the lawyer where she bends down and tries to pick up the carpet from the master bedroom floor and look at the paint color outside the bedroom it is the same color as when she is walking into Lisa's room on the wall where the thermostat is.


I feel the same way that the boys room is behind that kitchen wall. It just makes sense for Lisa's room to be in the middle based on what we see with the reporter and then all that wall space from the extended part of the kitchen before going into the computer room.

Patty G
10-23-2011, 08:19 PM
http://gisweb.claycogov.com/realEstate/realEstate.jsp

:blushing: I forgot the house number. :blushing:

1&2&3
10-23-2011, 08:22 PM
With this diagram, the intruder having come in thru the computer front window, it would seem the safest quickest way out would be the computer room door onto the deck. Going out the front door with the master bedroom so close does appear a bit risky. If we are making up stories, then we can tell it any way we want, right?

twall
10-23-2011, 08:26 PM
:blushing: I forgot the house number. :blushing:

make sure you put it in like this or it won't work-I had to try several times!

3620 N Lister Dr (no street suffix)

Patty G
10-23-2011, 08:29 PM
make sure you put it in like this or it won't work-I had to try several times!

3620 N Lister Dr (no street suffix)

I knew it was 3620, but now I see where I was making a mistake by using the (street suffix). Thanks.

Patty G
10-23-2011, 08:38 PM
What odd about this house is there is NO side door. The home I was raised in as a child back in the 40's and built in the 40's (Cape Cod style) we had a front door and a side door into the kitchen.

My home back in PA had a front door and a side door into the kitchen.

This house has the door at the back of the house onto the deck. If the deck wasn't there OOPS!

otto
10-23-2011, 10:03 PM
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/lisafloorplanortho2.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/lisafloorplan9.jpg

otto
10-23-2011, 10:11 PM
What odd about this house is there is NO side door. The home I was raised in as a child back in the 40's and built in the 40's (Cape Cod style) we had a front door and a side door into the kitchen.

My home back in PA had a front door and a side door into the kitchen.

This house has the door at the back of the house onto the deck. If the deck wasn't there OOPS!

There may have been a second door off the kitchen at some point? The backdoor seems a long way from most of the house.

MamaK
10-23-2011, 10:18 PM
There may have been a second door off the kitchen at some point? The backdoor seems a long way from most of the house.

I'm thinking back to when I lived around KC, about 15 years ago. I think most of the houses that I was in that were built around the same time... if there was a door off the kitchen, then it was the back door leading directly to the backyard. I'm not sure that I've seen many with 2 back doors or a side door.

otto
10-23-2011, 10:25 PM
I'm thinking back to when I lived around KC, about 15 years ago. I think most of the houses that I was in that were built around the same time... if there was a door off the kitchen, then it was the back door leading directly to the backyard. I'm not sure that I've seen many with 2 back doors or a side door.

Actually, with all the bedrooms in a row and the front door beside the kitchen, there isn't much choice about where to put the back door.

twall
10-23-2011, 10:46 PM
So are you thinking that Lisa's bedroom is in the middle?

Sorry, didn't see this earlier, yes, I think Lisa's bedroom is in the middle.

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 10:58 PM
http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/lisafloorplanortho2.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/lisafloorplan9.jpg

Wow! That looks pretty spot on, Otto! :)

(Sorry to say, Nancy Grace will no doubt rip you off and claim the credit. LOL!)

otto
10-23-2011, 11:35 PM
Wow! That looks pretty spot on, Otto! :)

(Sorry to say, Nancy Grace will no doubt rip you off and claim the credit. LOL!)

The big question seems to be whether Lisa's bedroom is in the middle or sharing a wall with the computer room. NG usually has her mind made up early on. My opinion is that it wouldn't make much difference ... the bedrooms are close to each other and ... if mom had sipped some wine and fallen asleep, someone could have sneaked in through the back door, entered the bedroom and disappeared. What time did wine with the friend stop (10:30?), when did the wine drinking stop, what time was the dumpster fire, man suspiciously seen at 2:!5?, what time did dad come home, what time was she discovered missing? We should have a time map as well.

Patty G
10-23-2011, 11:47 PM
There is lots of info here:
Lisa Irwin-Timeline - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 11:59 PM
The big question seems to be whether Lisa's bedroom is in the middle or sharing a wall with the computer room. NG usually has her mind made up early on. My opinion is that it wouldn't make much difference ... the bedrooms are close to each other and ... if mom had sipped some wine and fallen asleep, someone could have sneaked in through the back door, entered the bedroom and disappeared. What time did wine with the friend stop (10:30?), when did the wine drinking stop, what time was the dumpster fire, man suspiciously seen at 2:!5?, what time did dad come home, what time was she discovered missing? We should have a time map as well.

I think it's exactly where you have it, Otto. In one version of the morning events, JI says he went first into the master bedroom, talked to Debbie, then checked on the boys, then checked on Lisa. Now, there seems to be different versions of the morning events, but there's no doubt JI knows the layout of his own house. So it would make sense for him to walk straight down the hall from the master, come to the boys room first, then go to Lisa's room. Why would he pass Lisa's room and go straight to the boys room, then double back down the hall to check on Lisa?

JMO

otto
10-24-2011, 12:08 AM
I think it's exactly where you have it, Otto. In one version of the morning events, JI says he went first into the master bedroom, talked to Debbie, then checked on the boys, then checked on Lisa. Now, there seems to be different versions of the morning events, but there's no doubt JI knows the layout of his own house. So it would make sense for him to walk straight down the hall from the master, come to the boys room first, then go to Lisa's room. Why would he pass Lisa's room and go straight to the boys room, then double back down the hall to check on Lisa?

JMO

He would have walked straight in the back door into the computer room, or straight in the front door and across the living room to the master bedroom. Did he park in the garage? If that's the case, he would have entered the main part of the house though the stairs that open into the computer room. If he went to the master bedroom first, then he walked through the kitchen, passed the living room and went into the master bedroom.

Thank you ... that certainly suggests that after leaving the master bedroom, he passed (or used the bathroom), checked on the children in the first bedroom, checked on the child in the second bedroom and discovered a problem. Did he then go straight back to his bedroom thinking that his daughter had also slept in the master bedroom, along with the one son? What did he do immediately upon discovering his daughter missing? Run to the bedroom, pull back the sheets/blankets and ask where their daughter was?

That implies that Lisa'a bedroom was at the end of the hall and shared a wall with the computer room.

Kat
10-24-2011, 12:12 AM
Excellent otto! Incrediable work!

Please put it on our pictures thread when you are satisified with it? That way we can all find it for reference quickly when we want to refer to it instead of searching this thread too. :)

Wise Old Owl
10-24-2011, 12:13 AM
Yes MK is right - but it was only ONE version of event from JI. In yet ANOTHER version JI said he walked in - went through the kitchen and then noticed the lights on and the screen in the computer room - he then went by the boys room and saw the older one but not the younger one - he proceeded to walk past Lisa's room - noticed the door open but didn't look in and then went into the master to see DB asleep and the younger one in their bed - he then woke up DB and asked what was going on - then they both ran to Lisa's room.

So, its hard to figure out. That version (the one above) puts Lisa's room in the middle.

Mountain_Kat
10-24-2011, 12:17 AM
Yes MK is right - but it was only ONE version of event from JI. In yet ANOTHER version JI said he walked in - went through the kitchen and then noticed the lights on and the screen in the computer room - he then went by the boys room and saw the older one but not the younger one - he proceeded to walk past Lisa's room - noticed the door open but didn't look in and then went into the master to see DB asleep and the younger one in their bed - he then woke up DB and asked what was going on - then they both ran to Lisa's room.

So, its hard to figure out. That version (the one above) puts Lisa's room in the middle.

True.

But then we also have jeremy saying that the boys wouldn't have heard anyone coming through the window because their room is nowhere near the computer room. And from the doorway in the kitchen, we can clearly see Lisa's room across the hall. So, for me personally, I'm convinced that Lisa's room shares a wall with the computer room. But that's just me.

otto
10-24-2011, 12:24 AM
Possible Intruder Path

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/Lisapossiblepath.jpg

Possible Dad Paths

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/LisaDad4ish.jpg

Mountain_Kat
10-24-2011, 12:27 AM
He would have walked straight in the back door into the computer room, or straight in the front door and across the living room to the master bedroom. Did he park in the garage? If that's the case, he would have entered the main part of the house though the stairs that open into the computer room. If he went to the master bedroom first, then he walked through the kitchen, passed the living room and went into the master bedroom.

Thank you ... that certainly suggests that after leaving the master bedroom, he passed (or used the bathroom), checked on the children in the first bedroom, checked on the child in the second bedroom and discovered a problem. Did he then go straight back to his bedroom thinking that his daughter had also slept in the master bedroom, along with the one son? What did he do immediately upon discovering his daughter missing? Run to the bedroom, pull back the sheets/blankets and ask where their daughter was?

That implies that Lisa'a bedroom was at the end of the hall and shared a wall with the computer room.

BBM

The front door was the door that was unlocked, so I assume this is the door he entered through because he noticed the front door was unlocked right away. He then says he walked to the computer room and tried to shut the window, but couldn't because of the screen being screwy. The next place he puts himself is in the master bedroom, waking Debbie to ask what's going on.

(And from here, we get differently stories.)

The one account in People of him saying he went to check on Lisa and found her light on and her crib empty REALLY bugs me, though. Maybe it's just lousy reporting, I don't know. But if he went to the computer room to shut the window BEFORE he went to wake Debbie, he would have had to pass Lisa's lit up bedroom with the open door. Why would he take the kitchen/livingroom route to the master bedroom when the door to the hall was right there IN the kitchen? And if that's the route he took, he would have HAD to have noticed Lisa's door open and light on. Okay fine, maybe he thought the baby was in bed with Debbie. But if that's the case, how come when he sees the baby ISN'T with Debbie, he checks on the boys first? Doesn't make sense.

twall
10-24-2011, 12:34 AM
Otto, you're right, it doesn't make much difference if I have the kids' bedroom locations switched. They are close to each other and so glad Mtn.Kat sees the hall now! :great:

In the walk through with the ABC reporter he states JI used the front door entrance when he arrived home from work. I can look up the link if needed. He parked at the top of the drive near the front door.

And thank you Wise Old Owl for your last post so I didn't have to type out JI's other version of how the events occured when he came home. :rocker:

otto
10-24-2011, 12:36 AM
BBM

The front door was the door that was unlocked, so I assume this is the door he entered through because he noticed the front door was unlocked right away. He then says he walked to the computer room and tried to shut the window, but couldn't because of the screen being screwy. The next place he puts himself is in the master bedroom, waking Debbie to ask what's going on.

(And from here, we get differently stories.)

The one account in People of him saying he went to check on Lisa and found her light on and her crib empty REALLY bugs me, though. Maybe it's just lousy reporting, I don't know. But if he went to the computer room to shut the window BEFORE he went to wake Debbie, he would have had to pass Lisa's lit up bedroom with the open door. Why would he take the kitchen/livingroom route to the master bedroom when the door to the hall was right there IN the kitchen? And if that's the route he took, he would have HAD to have noticed Lisa's door open and light on. Okay fine, maybe he thought the baby was in bed with Debbie. But if that's the case, how come when he sees the baby ISN'T with Debbie, he checks on the boys first? Doesn't make sense.

Not necessarily. He could have walked through the kitchen to the computer room ... to avoid disturbing the children. Returning from the computer room (after seeing the screwy screen), he would have gone through the hall with the bedrooms to check on the children. He may have marched straight to his bedroom to see if the mother of his child was okay first, then checked the room with the light on, then the boy's bedroom.

otto
10-24-2011, 12:39 AM
Otto, you're right, it doesn't make much difference if I have the kids' bedroom locations switched. They are close to each other and so glad Mtn.Kat sees the hall now! :great:

In the walk through with the ABC reporter he states JI used the front door entrance when he arrived home from work. I can look up the link if needed.

And thank you Wise Old Owl for your last post so I didn't have to type out JI's other version of how the events occured when he came home. :rocker:

Regarding the view of the children's bedrooms from the kitchen area, I'm rendering a view based on the model. Maybe that will help figure out which bedroom is which.

So the dad came in through the front door. Dad went to the bedroom or the computer room first, then checked on the family. If the screen in the computer room is screwy, it appears that an intruder came in through the window, took the baby and left out the front door. Whomever took the baby must have known that there was a good chance of getting away with it.

Mountain_Kat
10-24-2011, 12:48 AM
Not necessarily. He could have walked through the kitchen to the computer room ... to avoid disturbing the children. Returning from the computer room (after seeing the screwy screen), he would have gone through the hall with the bedrooms to check on the children. He may have marched straight to his bedroom to see if the mother of his child was okay first, then checked the room with the light on, then the boy's bedroom.

No no, I mean if he checked on the window, like he said he did, and then went to question Debbie, he would have had to walk from the computer room (where the window is), and back into the kitchen. Here he has only 2 routes to the master bedroom...the shortest route would be through the door in the kitchen that leads to the hallway. The long route would be all the way back through the length of the kitchen, and then through the livingroom. Not sure why he would walk around when the door to the hallway was right there in the kitchen, kwim?

But at any rate, even walking through the kitchen on the way to the computer room and back again, he surely would have noticed Lisa's bedroom light on. Her bedroom is directly across from the doorway in the kitchen

otto
10-24-2011, 12:54 AM
Possible intruder path

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/Lisapossiblepath3.jpg

dovebar
10-24-2011, 12:56 AM
No no, I mean if he checked on the window, like he said he did, and then went to question Debbie, he would have had to walk from the computer room (where the window is), and back into the kitchen. Here he has only 2 routes to the master bedroom...the shortest route would be through the door in the kitchen that leads to the hallway. The long route would be all the way back through the length of the kitchen, and then through the livingroom. Not sure why he would walk around when the door to the hallway was right there in the kitchen, kwim?

But at any rate, even walking through the kitchen on the way to the computer room and back again, he surely would have noticed Lisa's bedroom light on. Her bedroom is directly across from the doorway in the kitchen

To me, this does not automatically mean he would check the room. If my husband came home and saw baby's room light on, he would assume the baby had gotten me up, and I was in the process of changing him - maybe because he spit up, and was giving him a quick bath, or maybe I'd taken him to our room. He would likely look for me, assuming I had the baby. Only if he didn't find me might he go back to the room. That's my two cents. In other words, he'd just figure, "What's going on? Everybody's up. Where is everybody?" and he'd go in the most likely direction - our room.

Either way, it sure looks like a possible intruder had several paths to Lisa's room without detection.

Mountain_Kat
10-24-2011, 12:59 AM
Possible intruder path

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/Lisapossiblepath3.jpg

The tampered with computer room window is the one in the front of the house, by the pumpkin lamp.

otto
10-24-2011, 01:05 AM
No no, I mean if he checked on the window, like he said he did, and then went to question Debbie, he would have had to walk from the computer room (where the window is), and back into the kitchen. Here he has only 2 routes to the master bedroom...the shortest route would be through the door in the kitchen that leads to the hallway. The long route would be all the way back through the length of the kitchen, and then through the livingroom. Not sure why he would walk around when the door to the hallway was right there in the kitchen, kwim?

But at any rate, even walking through the kitchen on the way to the computer room and back again, he surely would have noticed Lisa's bedroom light on. Her bedroom is directly across from the doorway in the kitchen


After discovering that the front door was unlocked, window was screwy and all the lights were on, the hallway would be the most likely choice (as the kitchen and living room were covered when he walked in the front door). Still ... he may be inclined to check on his wife first ... then the children.

jjenny
10-24-2011, 01:08 AM
After discovering that the front door was unlocked, window was screwy and all the lights were on, the hallway would be the most likely choice (as the kitchen and living room were covered when he walked in the front door). Still ... he may be inclined to check on his wife first ... then the children.

I believe we heard a number of different versions regarding what he checked on first.

otto
10-24-2011, 01:11 AM
Possible Intruder Path

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/Lisapossiblepath4.jpg

Mountain_Kat
10-24-2011, 01:16 AM
That intruder path looks perfect, Otto.

Gotta wonder though, what kind of intruder comes through a window, bothers to put the screen back in the window, flips on all the lights, and then exits the front door.

And yet, this is what the Irwin's tell us happened.

????

Wise Old Owl
10-24-2011, 01:20 AM
That intruder path looks perfect, Otto.

Gotta wonder though, what kind of intruder comes through a window, bothers to put the screen back in the window, flips on all the lights, and then exits the front door.

And yet, this is what the Irwin's tell us happened.

????
Plus MK - if you watched teh re-enactment with LE trying to climb through that window. Now, I agree - it would be fairly easy for someone to climb through it - BUT the window itself is a sash window and it just kept falling down on the guy climbing in. THAT wouldn't change and it would certainly make it harder to get through it and create a lot of noise when doing so.

JMHO

carole
10-24-2011, 01:25 AM
Plus MK - if you watched teh re-enactment with LE trying to climb through that window. Now, I agree - it would be fairly easy for someone to climb through it - BUT the window itself is a sash window and it just kept falling down on the guy climbing in. THAT wouldn't change and it would certainly make it harder to get through it and create a lot of noise when doing so.

JMHO

BBM

I saw the reenactment and, if it hadn't been done for such a serious situation, it would have been quite comical - no disrespect to anyone involved.

It showed that it wasn't as easy as just hefting yourself up on the windowsill and shooting through the window.

MOO

Mountain_Kat
10-24-2011, 01:28 AM
Oh man...I think I just figured out what the clicking sound was...the occillating fan beside Debbie's bed. If it fell over while still on occillate...click click click...

Cadaver dog hit at the foot of the bed...fan at the foot of the bed. :(

otto
10-24-2011, 01:35 AM
Plus MK - if you watched teh re-enactment with LE trying to climb through that window. Now, I agree - it would be fairly easy for someone to climb through it - BUT the window itself is a sash window and it just kept falling down on the guy climbing in. THAT wouldn't change and it would certainly make it harder to get through it and create a lot of noise when doing so.

JMHO

Maybe the window was propped with a stick by an intruder.

Wise Old Owl
10-24-2011, 01:37 AM
Maybe the window was propped with a stick by an intruder.
Ok - good point. How would the intruder know that the window needed to be propped up? Unless the intruder tried it once and it fell down on the person - still makes noise.

dovebar
10-24-2011, 01:37 AM
Junkies do stupid things all the time, and they tend to be skinny. The officer was not. JMO.

Wise Old Owl
10-24-2011, 01:38 AM
Also, if the intruder propped the window open and then left through the front door - that window would have been found still propped open with whatever was used. And it wasn't found that way.

carole
10-24-2011, 01:38 AM
Oh man...I think I just figured out what the clicking sound was...the occillating fan beside Debbie's bed. If it fell over while still on occillate...click click click...

Cadaver dog hit at the foot of the bed...fan at the foot of the bed. :(

BBM

Wow. I've had mine fall over, too, and you are exactly right.

Click, click, click, click, click - drives you nearly crazy in the small amount of time it takes to set it back upright.

ETA - That actually makes me feel a little bit sick.

carole
10-24-2011, 01:39 AM
Junkies do stupid things all the time, and they tend to be skinny. The officer was not. JMO.

BBM

Junkies - where did that come from???

A skinny junkie who new to bring along a stick. Not.

otto
10-24-2011, 01:42 AM
Oh man...I think I just figured out what the clicking sound was...the occillating fan beside Debbie's bed. If it fell over while still on occillate...click click click...

Cadaver dog hit at the foot of the bed...fan at the foot of the bed. :(

Lawyer pointed out that although rumor was that cadaver dog hit on foot of bed, carpet/evidence was not collected. Luminol evidence works better after about six weeks, so although a cadaver dog hit on the foot of the bed (which is a bit weird ... dead child at the foot of the bed between 10:30 and 4 AM?), maybe the idea is to look for luminol revealed evidence of blood. Still, no carpet taken from the area where the dogs were rumored to have given an alert.

otto
10-24-2011, 01:43 AM
Ok - good point. How would the intruder know that the window needed to be propped up? Unless the intruder tried it once and it fell down on the person - still makes noise.

Or the intruder was familiar with the family or neighborhood.

otto
10-24-2011, 01:45 AM
Also, if the intruder propped the window open and then left through the front door - that window would have been found still propped open with whatever was used. And it wasn't found that way.

Not necessarily, but any stick or crowbar that was used to prop open the window should be found close to the house ... since it was only needed to get in.

dovebar
10-24-2011, 01:46 AM
BBM

Junkies - where did that come from???

Speculating about who the intruder might have been. Burglaries, especially stupid ones with people home, etc., are junkies looking for something quick to sell. We've seen more than one recent story about a child being offered for sale in exchange for drugs. If someone was desperate for a fix, wonked out and looking for something to trade or sell, some cell phones and a baby could do. The same person might be on foot (junkies, like alcoholics, have often lost their licenses or in the case of junkies, their car because they couldn't keep up the payments or had to trade them for drugs). They might walk with the child from dealer to dealer looking for someone who wanted to buy. I know an addict whose child was taken by the dealer and held hostage. For the Irwins, though, it looks like their drug of choice was kept to boxed wine, so I'm thinking the same intruder - perhaps - who was burglarizing Jeremy's car came back for a crack at the house.

dovebar
10-24-2011, 01:47 AM
Lawyer pointed out that although rumor was that cadaver dog hit on foot of bed, carpet/evidence was not collected. Luminol evidence works better after about six weeks, so although a cadaver dog hit on the foot of the bed (which is a bit weird ... dead child at the foot of the bed between 10:30 and 4 AM?), maybe the idea is to look for luminol revealed evidence of blood. Still, no carpet taken from the area where the dogs were rumored to have given an alert.

Video showed that carpet to be quite light in color. It would be hard to fully clean up a blood stain from that color carpet, IMHO.

carole
10-24-2011, 01:50 AM
Lawyer pointed out that although rumor was that cadaver dog hit on foot of bed, carpet/evidence was not collected. Luminol evidence works better after about six weeks, so although a cadaver dog hit on the foot of the bed (which is a bit weird ... dead child at the foot of the bed between 10:30 and 4 AM?), maybe the idea is to look for luminol revealed evidence of blood. Still, no carpet taken from the area where the dogs were rumored to have given an alert.

It isn't a rumor. It's in the search warrant the judge signed allowing LE to go in for a more thorough search on Wed. They brought additional cadaver dogs in. LE has applied to the court to have what was found on Wed. sealed. The first search warrant said that a cadaver dog alerted to "the scent of a deceased human in the area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed". It says nothing about the scent being on the carpet.

We started speculating about the carpet when CSIs brought out a carpet/rug during the search on Wed.

Read State's Motion to Seal Court Records filed last Friday here - http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf

dovebar
10-24-2011, 01:54 AM
Since the room is fully carpeted, where on the "area of the floor" could there had been a bloody baby hit by an oscillating fan?

Or do I misunderstand the scenario that others are laying out?

carole
10-24-2011, 01:57 AM
Since the room is fully carpeted, where on the "area of the floor" could there had been a bloody baby hit by an oscillating fan?

Or do I misunderstand the scenario that others are laying out?

BBM


The scent of a deceased human/human decomposition is not blood. It is the gases that begin to form from the decaying/rotting body immediately after a human dies.

dovebar
10-24-2011, 02:02 AM
I understand that. My question was, how could a baby be hit by a live fan without getting bloody?

carole
10-24-2011, 02:03 AM
I understand that. My question was, how could a baby be hit by a live fan without getting bloody?

OOPS. Sorry.

The fan may have simply been knocked over by someone and caused the clicking sound. How or why, who knows.

otto
10-24-2011, 02:30 AM
Rendered model view from kitchen to hallway bedrooms: Lisa and boys. Which is Lisa's bedroom? Left or right?

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/lisarenderedkitchentohallway.jpg

gwenabob
10-24-2011, 02:34 AM
With this picture ^^^^^ I am thinking the kids' rooms should be reversed. Didn't we see that one male reporter standing in front of that door and you could see behind him to his left, and it was the crib with the tubs still in it.

otto
10-24-2011, 02:34 AM
It isn't a rumor. It's in the search warrant the judge signed allowing LE to go in for a more thorough search on Wed. They brought additional cadaver dogs in. LE has applied to the court to have what was found on Wed. sealed. The first search warrant said that a cadaver dog alerted to "the scent of a deceased human in the area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed". It says nothing about the scent being on the carpet.

We started speculating about the carpet when CSIs brought out a carpet/rug during the search on Wed.

Read State's Motion to Seal Court Records filed last Friday here - http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf

We know that her daughter was asleep in her own bed when mom had drinks on the porch with the neighbor, so presumably the only thing that could have happened is the 11 month old was taken into the master bedroom between 10:30 PM and 4:00 AM, got caught in the covers and died while the mom and brother were asleep in the bed ... and they both pretended that nothing happened? That's weird. I find it hard to believe that there is a genuine cadaver dog alert at the foot of the bed.

jjenny
10-24-2011, 02:36 AM
We know that her daughter was asleep in her own bed when mom had drinks on the porch with the neighbor, so presumably the only thing that could have happened is the 11 month old was taken into the master bedroom, got caught in the covers and died while the mom and brother were asleep in the bed ... and they both pretended that nothing happened? That's weird. I find it hard to believe that there is a genuine cadaver dog alert at the foot of the bed.

Why would that be the only possible scenario? I could come up with other ones.

otto
10-24-2011, 02:39 AM
With this picture ^^^^^ I am thinking the kids' rooms should be reversed. Didn't we see that one male reporter standing in front of that door and you could see behind him to his left, and it was the crib with the tubs still in it.

So the baby's bedroom is on the left and the boy's bedroom shares a wall with the computer room?

gwenabob
10-24-2011, 02:42 AM
So the baby's bedroom is on the left and the boy's bedroom shares a wall with the computer room?

Well, based on that one photo we saw of the reporter. I wish I knew where to find it now. But he is standing right in front of that door to the hallway, and behind him is the room with the crib. So that is what I am thinking.

otto
10-24-2011, 03:53 AM
So the baby's room is on the right?

It really wouldn't make that much difference in terms of how the break in occurred, since the bedrooms are side by side on the other side of the bathroom from the master bedroom.

otto
10-24-2011, 04:13 AM
Well, based on that one photo we saw of the reporter. I wish I knew where to find it now. But he is standing right in front of that door to the hallway, and behind him is the room with the crib. So that is what I am thinking.

I remember the male reporter too, over-exposed ... it must be on this thread towards the beginning because I saw it and I haven't read any other related threads.

otto
10-24-2011, 04:40 AM
Orthographic ...

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/lisafloorplan0degreesortho2.jpg

Patty G
10-24-2011, 07:24 AM
The Today Show was in the house and if you were to stand at the doorway in the parents room, the boys room is at the end of that hallway facing the parents bedroom. Lisa's bedroom is in the middle.

As soon as the video is posted online, I will post it.

Patty G
10-24-2011, 07:41 AM
Peter Alexander coming from kitchen into the hallway. Note the position of the boys room to Peter's right as he heads to Lisa's room almost straight in front of him.

Patty G
10-24-2011, 07:46 AM
Opening to what we believe to be the second bathroom.

Patty G
10-24-2011, 08:02 AM
Please, let's keep this thread for the floor plan so we can get the floor plan as close as possible. Thanks so much.

Patty G
10-24-2011, 08:08 AM
REFERENCE FOR LAYOUT OF THE HOUSE.

Today Show's tour of the house.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/45014011#45014011

Patty G
10-24-2011, 08:43 AM
REFERENCE FOR LAYOUT OF THE HOUSE.

October 24, 2011
Good Morning America

http://gma.yahoo.com/video/news-26797925/baby-lisa-exclusive-tour-of-irwin-house-27046940.html

Patty G
10-24-2011, 08:48 AM
Showing basement stairs.

SurfieTX
10-24-2011, 09:38 AM
Images: Attorney Gives Tour Of Baby Lisa's Home

http://www.kmbc.com/slideshow/news/29569030/detail.html#ixzz1bhpfRqs9

Patty G
10-24-2011, 10:54 AM
FWIW, I have not heard back from ABC or NBC regarding my questions. Sent tweets out to 3 reporters with ABC and 1 with NBC. (I don't like to be ignored.) :banghead:

Questions I asked:
Are there stairs in the Irwin home to go downstairs, and if so, where are they located in the house? Thanks.

Do you know if there is another room to the left of Lisa's bedroom room heading towards the parents room?

Is there an exit to the deck from the computer room?

Mountain_Kat
10-24-2011, 12:08 PM
Different view of Lisa's bedroom. (1:15 mark) There is a door at the end of the hallway...so bathroom?

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/45014011#45014011

Mountain_Kat
10-24-2011, 12:13 PM
2:05 mark...room at end of the hall has bunkbeds! The boys room IS at the end of the hall!

So now, we really CAN nail this floorplan down! YAY!