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JeannieC
10-23-2011, 08:12 AM
Hey gal good to see you...

No news all weekend wonder why that is...thinking maybe they have enough to go to grand jury..I am quite sure the police did not take the weekend off..
This is so following the Casey Anthony case.

We are one sick bunch of peeps! No news so we talk about poop!
:floorlaugh: :woohoo: :great: :waitasec:

LadyPirate
10-23-2011, 08:17 AM
Well it was dead............:floorlaugh:

:floorlaugh: True, very true!

Really though, poop on the floor? That is going to be their comeback? Who leaves poop on the floor when you have a baby crawling around? DB needs to get rid of this guy because he's just making her look worse!

~n/t~
10-23-2011, 08:20 AM
Hey gal good to see you...

No news all weekend wonder why that is...thinking maybe they have enough to go to grand jury..I am quite sure the police did not take the weekend off..
This is so following the Casey Anthony case.

Good to see you too! They took a whole bunch of stuff from the home so perhaps they're waiting on the results. Hopefully, the results will be back quickly!

I wonder where the items were sent for testing? Not the body farm.....:panic:.

Pita
10-23-2011, 08:46 AM
We are one sick bunch of peeps! No news so we talk about poop!
:floorlaugh: :woohoo: :great: :waitasec:

We are a sad bunch.....no news waaaaaaaaaa!

Pita
10-23-2011, 08:49 AM
Good to see you too! They took a whole bunch of stuff from the home so perhaps they're waiting on the results. Hopefully, the results will be back quickly!

I just wish they would tell us something..but nada!

I wonder where the items were sent for testing? Not the body farm.....:panic:.

OHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOO the body farm, say it ain't so !

Pita
10-23-2011, 08:56 AM
Baby Lisa Irwin: New Surveillance Footage of Mystery Man

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844

~n/t~
10-23-2011, 09:02 AM
Baby Lisa Irwin: New Surveillance Footage of Mystery Man

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844

Wow!! This deserves its own thread. Not that we can make anything out but did you see the room where the dog hit. The carpeting is still there!!!!!!


OMG!! What is going on? :ohoh:

carole
10-23-2011, 09:08 AM
Baby Lisa Irwin: New Surveillance Footage of Mystery Man

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844

Video says the man wearing white is spotted at 2:30 am coming out of the woods. 2:30 am is the time a phone call was reported to or from one of the missing cell phones.

carole
10-23-2011, 09:09 AM
Wow!! This deserves its own thread. Not that we can make anything out but did you see the room where the dog hit. The carpeting is still there!!!!!!


OMG!! What is going on? :ohoh:

BBM

Maybe there was a stronger hit somewhere else in the house on another rug/carpet??

LadyPirate
10-23-2011, 09:09 AM
Wow!! This deserves its own thread. Not that we can make anything out but did you see the room where the dog hit. The carpeting is still there!!!!!!


OMG!! What is going on? :ohoh:

They didn't need that carpet as they took the carpet they DID need. Maybe the dog did hit on the carpet in their room, but the other carpet was much more of a hit? Is that possible?

LE is keeping everything about this quiet and rightly so. It keeps their findings under wraps, whoever did this doesn't really know what is happening and will be finding it difficult to make their next move.

Does anybody know if that particular section of woods was checked out that was shown in this video?

Pita
10-23-2011, 09:18 AM
Wow!! This deserves its own thread. Not that we can make anything out but did you see the room where the dog hit. The carpeting is still there!!!!!!


OMG!! What is going on? :ohoh:

I saw with my own two eyes them carrying out a large rolled up carpet..possible rug on rug??

carole
10-23-2011, 09:21 AM
I saw with my own two eyes them carrying out a large rolled up carpet..possible rug on rug??

I thought maybe another carpet/rug in another area of the house. But you may be right. A rug at the end of the bed could be what they found.

daisy7
10-23-2011, 09:23 AM
I saw with my own two eyes them carrying out a large rolled up carpet..possible rug on rug??

IIRC, the carpet that they took was the same color of the carpet in the house. And, it had a jagged edge like it may have been left over carpet from the installation. JMO.

Pita
10-23-2011, 09:25 AM
I thought maybe another carpet/rug in another area of the house. But you may be right. A rug at the end of the bed could be what they found.

But they said the dog hit on the floor next to the bed, you would think that is the one they would take, but who knows what they are doing..they ain't talkin'

~n/t~
10-23-2011, 09:29 AM
Even if it was rug on rug, it makes no sense to leave any at all, imo. The more evidence the better for testing.

I don't get it.

TheDuchess
10-23-2011, 09:31 AM
I am not seeing the video on that link. Can anyone help?

~n/t~
10-23-2011, 09:33 AM
They didn't need that carpet as they took the carpet they DID need. Maybe the dog did hit on the carpet in their room, but the other carpet was much more of a hit? Is that possible?

LE is keeping everything about this quiet and rightly so. It keeps their findings under wraps, whoever did this doesn't really know what is happening and will be finding it difficult to make their next move.

Does anybody know if that particular section of woods was checked out that was shown in this video?

The dog hit on the carpet in parents bedroom from what I understood. If that's the case, there should be no reason to leave any carpeting, imo.

All of it should have been sent for testing. I'll have to rewatch the video later. Real life gets in the way of my sleuthing time. :banghead:

carole
10-23-2011, 09:34 AM
I am not seeing the video on that link. Can anyone help?

Its there, it just takes several seconds to load. It comes up where the picture of Lisa in pink is.

~n/t~
10-23-2011, 09:34 AM
I am not seeing the video on that link. Can anyone help?

I had to wait a few seconds for it to load but it's on the main page.

cluciano63
10-23-2011, 09:40 AM
Well that would explain the LE obsession with the woods, if this image was near the woods...

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 09:41 AM
Baby Lisa Irwin: New Surveillance Footage of Mystery Man

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844

But um...this man doesn't even fit the description witnesses gave, does it? :waitasec:

daisy7
10-23-2011, 09:43 AM
But um...this man doesn't even fit the description witnesses gave, does it? :waitasec:

I couldn't tell what the person looked like from the vid.

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 09:44 AM
I'm struggling to come up with a reason for them not taking carpet samples from the area that the dog hit at, the master bedroom. Is it possible that there was an area rug in there that was taken? Did the dog actually hit in a different area?


The search was conducted Wednesday and police left with several items, including a large portion of carpet.

So then where did the police get the large portion of carpet from that they took? In the video Cyndi Short was able to pull the edge of the carpet up, is it not tacked down in the master bedroom? Perhaps the police, for some bizarre reason, took the carpet piece from next to the bed, and put different carpet there? Why would they do that? I have no idea, but they had 17 hours and a lot of man power.

daisy7
10-23-2011, 09:45 AM
Well that would explain the LE obsession with the woods, if this image was near the woods...

I am not so good with maps, but they said in the vid. he was seen near the dumpster fire. Was the dumpster fire near where they were searching in the woods?

TIA!

Magnifying Glass
10-23-2011, 09:47 AM
Well, that narrows it down. A white blob did it.

madge
10-23-2011, 09:48 AM
but how many men are out in white t shirts, no jackets at that time of the morning?? Just odd that so many sightings of someone with white tshirt, no jackets, same time Baby Lisa goes missing. Just too many darn coincidences here

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 09:49 AM
The document also revealed that inconsistent stories from the "people involved" may have hampered the early stages of the investigaton.

"Investigative interviews with the people involved revealed conflicting information for clear direction in the investigation," the affidavit said.

They don't name anyone specifically, or specific statements? :waitasec: Could it be that most of the statements by the parents, neighbor (drinking buddy), and brother are conflicting? Perhaps what little info they did get from the boys, doesn't fit either?

Magnifying Glass
10-23-2011, 09:53 AM
If the search warrant said they took a piece of carpet, that's what they took. No reason to lie in an official document. It must have been what was relevant to take. We have no idea what the bedroom looked like before any of this happened, so one "grand tour" to show there's still intact carpet on the floor means very little to me since it could have been something on top of that LE took.

All my opinion :twocents:

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 09:53 AM
I couldn't tell what the person looked like from the vid.

I can't even tell if it's a man. But I can tell that the shirt and pants are both white.

I thought the motorcycle rider said the man with the baby was wearing a white t-shirt and jeans. :waitasec:

jjenny
10-23-2011, 09:55 AM
I can't even tell if it's a man. But I can tell that the shirt and pants are both white.

I thought the motorcycle rider said the man with the baby was wearing a white t-shirt and jeans. :waitasec:

I don't even think it's shirt and pants-I think it's a robe.
The man supposedly seen with a baby is described as wearing dark jeans and white t-shirt.

cluciano63
10-23-2011, 09:56 AM
I don't see how this fuzzy video clip proves anything except that someone seems to have been out and about with a baby, could have been anyone, including family member of the parents, etc...

jjenny
10-23-2011, 09:56 AM
I don't see how this fuzzy video clip proves anything except that someone seems to have been out and about with a baby, could have been anyone, including family member of the parents, etc...

You can't see any babies on that video. There is no babies.

Rooster27
10-23-2011, 09:56 AM
But um...this man doesn't even fit the description witnesses gave, does it? :waitasec:

No it doesn't. I like how they say in the release that it supports the abduction theory, but my first thought was, that it was "in house". Someone who was involved with the family, assisting in something, transfer of baby (hopeful) or disposal of baby. 2:30? The couple, i believe, said they (or just the husband, according to first accounts as reported,) saw the baby close to midnight-ish? So I don't see how this relates to the man in the woods. Do they give a location of the woods where this "man in white" was seen? The time line doesn't work if it was close in time to the other baby sighting by the couple. Does anyone else, doubt that a man would be walking around outside for 3 or 4 hours with a baby? I do. Motorbike man is mentioned in the report right after this new surveillance information, as if they are tied together, but i can't see that. IMO

curiousjo
10-23-2011, 09:59 AM
LE removed a roll of carpeting. We heard the cadaver dogs hit on carpet in master bedroom. Yet, the master bedroom still has carpet. Well- what if DB replaced the carpet with another piece - so, the clicking noise the boys heard was DB tacking the new carpet down. The LE did not take the carpet currently in master bedroom, because that was the replaced piece. The roll of carpet they took was the carpet that was actually in the room that night (before replaced) that they may have found stashed somewhere in the basement or garage after DB had removed it.

The man carrying the baby most likely stopped somewhere along the way - if they can figure out who he is then need to look at his car, home, etc.

TxLady2
10-23-2011, 10:01 AM
Good to see you too! They took a whole bunch of stuff from the home so perhaps they're waiting on the results. Hopefully, the results will be back quickly!

I wonder where the items were sent for testing? Not the body farm.....:panic:.

Not everything they took will be used in court, and a lot of it will turn out to be useless, evidence-wise. They nearly always end up taking a lot of stuff that COULD be evidence, but maybe isn't. That's standard procedure.
And yes, all of it has to be tested.
It's going to be a big blow if that spot that the HRD dog hit on turns out to be from 20 years ago.

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 10:02 AM
No it doesn't. I like how they say in the release that it supports the abduction theory, but my first thought was, that it was "in house". Someone who was involved with the family, assisting in something, transfer of baby (hopeful) or disposal of baby. 2:30? The couple, i believe, said they (or just the husband, according to first accounts as reported,) saw the baby close to midnight-ish? So I don't see how this relates to the man in the woods. Do they give a location of the woods where this "man in white" was seen? The time line doesn't work if it was close in time to the other baby sighting by the couple. Does anyone else, doubt that a man would be walking around outside for 3 or 4 hours with a baby? I do. Motorbike man is mentioned in the report right after this new surveillance information, as if they are tied together, but i can't see that. IMO

If you add the witness sightings to a map, and then add the video of the white blob (which doesn't have a baby that I can see), you get this:

1 am. man and woman on N Chelsea see man carrying a baby
2:19 dumpster fire responded to
2:30 white blob with no baby
4:am Motorcycle rider sees man dressed in white t and jeans with baby

So...did white blob set the baby down in the woods, start the dumpster fire, retrieve the baby from the woods, change clothes, and then walk all the way over to 48th and Randolph (3 miles away)?!

:waitasec:

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 10:09 AM
Not everything they took will be used in court, and a lot of it will turn out to be useless, evidence-wise. They nearly always end up taking a lot of stuff that COULD be evidence, but maybe isn't. That's standard procedure.
And yes, all of it has to be tested.
It's going to be a big blow if that spot that the HRD dog hit on turns out to be from 20 years ago.

IMO, it'll be a big blow for the use of cadaver dogs period. I'd be willing to bet it all that more than one dog hit there. The FBI certainly has the resources to have a second dog on hand to confirm a positive hit, right? Especially, in a high profile case with a missing baby.

If this hit turns out to be that old, that leaves a lot of questions about how useful dogs like that are in a search.

Rooster27
10-23-2011, 10:38 AM
If you add the witness sightings to a map, and then add the video of the white blob (which doesn't have a baby that I can see), you get this:

1 am. man and woman on N Chelsea see man carrying a baby
2:19 dumpster fire responded to
2:30 white blob with no baby
4:am Motorcycle rider sees man dressed in white t and jeans with baby

So...did white blob set the baby down in the woods, start the dumpster fire, retrieve the baby from the woods, change clothes, and then walk all the way over to 48th and Randolph (3 miles away)?!

:waitasec:

I am not sure if the reports have been exact about this, but the first sighting was around midnight, or 12:15, i thought. So three miles away, two hours later, there is a report of a fire and a "white blob" is seen leaving the area of the fire. Now i do see, when i look up directions between these two locations, that the highway is right there and convenient, it's kind of a straight shot isn't it? Maybe someone who lives nearby will weigh in on that fact, and the surveillance shows us the location being right near a large gas station....this could have been a way of obtaining gasoline perhaps? Wow. grabbing a straws, sorry. But If the man carrying the baby did use a vehicle nearby and an astute poster reminded us about the alleged phone call at 2:30, perhaps to someone who was picking him/her/blob/baby up after some deed was done, this could work i suppose. I still am having trouble with the 4:00am sighting. Not sure i believe the baby would be carried outside at this point though. Doesn't seem at all logical, unless someone didn't want any trace evidence in a car. Again JMO.

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 10:39 AM
I don't even think it's shirt and pants-I think it's a robe.
The man supposedly seen with a baby is described as wearing dark jeans and white t-shirt.

Homeless wizard, perhaps? ;)

cluciano63
10-23-2011, 10:40 AM
I hate that the family's lawyers and reps are focused on disputing the search warrant, the hit, the carpet, etc...everything but on the missing baby...it just sickens me to watch as they attempt to defend their case, when these supposedly innocent parents have not so much been named as POI's. JMO

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 10:44 AM
I hate that the family's lawyers and reps are focused on disputing the search warrant, the hit, the carpet, etc...everything but on the missing baby...it just sickens me to watch as they attempt to defend their case, when these supposedly innocent parents have not so much been named as POI's. JMO

Exactly. You just know this gas station footage came from them.

"Looky! A person who appears to be going into the woods! Told ya!"

You could no doubt find endless video footage, from all over the city, and claim it had something to do with this case. It's stupid, imo.

Sammiejam
10-23-2011, 10:49 AM
And the defense spin begins.

SICKENING!

I am sure that A MAN WALKS NEAR WOODS nearly every night of the friggin' week!

I bet the lawyer who so kindly walked the ABC through THE CRIME SCENE while pointing out supposed FLAWS in the police work, is the very same person that got the sinister surveillance footage of MAN WALKING NEAR WOODS and also gave THAT to the ABC to put with the rest of their lovely little story!

I can see where all this is headed and it breaks my heart. I pray there will be justice for the beautiful child. And that she is found soon.

iluvmua
10-23-2011, 10:53 AM
And the defense spin begins.

SICKENING!

I am sure that A MAN WALKS NEAR WOODS nearly every night of the friggin' week!

I bet the lawyer who so kindly walked the ABC through THE CRIME SCENE while pointing out supposed FLAWS in the police work, is the very same person that got the sinister surveillance footage of MAN WALKING NEAR WOODS and also gave THAT to the ABC to put with the rest of their lovely little story!

I can see where all this is headed and it breaks my heart. I pray there will be justice for the beautiful child. And that she is found soon.

And that the parents of little Lisa be arrested very soon. I believe she is gone and one or both are involved.

jjenny
10-23-2011, 10:55 AM
The motorcycle guy didn't even come forward for a week. How does he even know when he saw something (assuming he saw anything at all)? A week later I am not going to remember people I saw on the street. But look at the press mapping it in.

Rooster27
10-23-2011, 10:56 AM
And the defense spin begins.

SICKENING!

I am sure that A MAN WALKS NEAR WOODS nearly every night of the friggin' week!

I bet the lawyer who so kindly walked the ABC through THE CRIME SCENE while pointing out supposed FLAWS in the police work, is the very same person that got the sinister surveillance footage of MAN WALKING NEAR WOODS and also gave THAT to the ABC to put with the rest of their lovely little story!

I can see where all this is headed and it breaks my heart. I pray there will be justice for the beautiful child. And that she is found soon.

I thought that too, when I first saw it. Just a random soul, walking near a random woods. Just a souped up press story from the lawyers. But doesn't the location tie in with something? Isn't that why they are relating it? Does anyone have the location info on the woods they were searching (not the area next to their house, the search that happened days earlier) the dumpster fire, and this surveillance footage location? I am going to look back.

Pita
10-23-2011, 10:57 AM
Is anyone else thinking this is a possible accident cover up, I don't think she would have been buying baby wipes if she had murder on her mind..just a thought.

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 10:59 AM
Is anyone else thinking this is a possible accident cover up, I don't think she would have been buying baby wipes if she had murder on her mind..just a thought.

My personal feeling is that whatever happened to Lisa was unintentional. That said, I'm loathe to call it an accident...more like criminal child endangerment.

JMO

iluvmua
10-23-2011, 11:01 AM
I don't know if it was an accident or murder but .........something happened to cause Lisa to be killed.

Sammiejam
10-23-2011, 11:03 AM
I think she bought the wipes and the food because a) to make everything appear *normal* like Lisa was still ok, (but Lisa was already gone) or b) she hadnt flipped out and murdered her yet.

LadyPirate
10-23-2011, 11:05 AM
I really, really hope that it turns out Lisa was kidnapped because I can't stand the thoughts of a mother or father killing their own child.

IF it does turn out she was kidnapped, then what ramifications will this have on future cases such as this? Will a dogs alert be instantly dismissed? Will LE have to work even harder to prove their case? How many guilty parties will walk free because of it? It's disturbing to think of what the fallout could be.

ZsaZsa
10-23-2011, 11:06 AM
My personal feeling is that whatever happened to Lisa was unintentional. That said, I'm loathe to call it an accident...more like criminal child endangerment.

JMO

If your conscience is clear there is no reason to lie about an accident....

Sammiejam
10-23-2011, 11:07 AM
The woods aren't really close to the crime scene at all! Its near where the man said he saw someone walking with a baby but so blimin' what? It sure looked pretty busy in that gas station at 2am, there were people and cars everywhere while that "MAN WALKED NEAR WOODS".

(Caps are for sarcasm lol.)

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 11:12 AM
If your conscience is clear there is no reason to lie about an accident....

Would your conscience be clear if you got stone cold drunk and accidently killed your kid?

Mine wouldn't.

Rooster27
10-23-2011, 11:32 AM
Would your conscience be clear if you got stone cold drunk and accidently killed your kid?

Mine wouldn't.

my thoughts too.

Also there are two other children involved that you would like to retain custody of. I guess she only has custody of one, but she is the caretaker of the other in the same house. Correct me here, if i am wrong. Seems a reason to make the intruder theory up. A big reason. You're engaged, to someone that makes a living. There is a lifestyle, a future, a relationship that is at risk by admitting you neglected your child. She says she may have been too drunk to know what the H*** may have been happening in the house as far as "sounds" She admits this on the air, but says it doesn't have anything to do with her daughter going missing. Sarcasm..... so, I'm too drunk to hear anything, but i didn't neglect my sick baby, and gee, she disappeared. Why admit something that points to negligence when you are afraid of the ramifications of being an unfit parent. I suppose unfit parent is better than being accused of murder. MOO.

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 11:34 AM
I hate that the family's lawyers and reps are focused on disputing the search warrant, the hit, the carpet, etc...everything but on the missing baby...it just sickens me to watch as they attempt to defend their case, when these supposedly innocent parents have not so much been named as POI's. JMO

I know! Again, I find it laughable that the woman who was "blacked-out" from too much to drink, disputes the findings of the FBI! She knows that Lisa was not deceased in the home, not on the floor by her bed, etc. So what happened DB? "I don't know I was blacked out! But I know she wasn't on the floor!" :waitasec:

curiousc
10-23-2011, 11:47 AM
Just for argument sake, say DB has done something to Lisa. I've heard many comments that JI may be in on the coverup because he may have been scared to lose custody of his child.

However, that just possibly may not happen. He was working and whatever DB did was of her own actions and not his.

I take a look at Terri and Kaine and how Kaine managed to have custody of their baby, even though Kaine stated Terri drank etc. I don't think JI's son would be taken from him in this instance either unless there was absolute proof that he was very negligent himself. He's more likely to lose his child and his way of living now if he's involved in a cover-up. If he's involved, did he not think of that?

I am so torn over him and whether or not he knows what happened if DB did in fact do something to Lisa. But what I find is that he must know what happened or he wouldn't have inconsistent stories, etc.

I can't figure it out. If I came home and my hubby said they did something to one of my children, I wouldn't stand by him. No way no how. So why is he still beside DB? Is it because he helped or because he's in a huge denial?

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 11:57 AM
my thoughts too.

Also there are two other children involved that you would like to retain custody of. I guess she only has custody of one, but she is the caretaker of the other in the same house. Correct me here, if i am wrong. Seems a reason to make the intruder theory up. A big reason. You're engaged, to someone that makes a living. There is a lifestyle, a future, a relationship that is at risk by admitting you neglected your child. She says she may have been too drunk to know what the H*** may have been happening in the house as far as "sounds" She admits this on the air, but says it doesn't have anything to do with her daughter going missing. Sarcasm..... so, I'm too drunk to hear anything, but i didn't neglect my sick baby, and gee, she disappeared. Why admit something that points to negligence when you are afraid of the ramifications of being an unfit parent. I suppose unfit parent is better than being accused of murder. MOO.

BBM

Exactly, and THIS is motivation for the Dad to help cover this up, imo.

pinkfly
10-23-2011, 12:01 PM
We heard earlier that JI was aggressive in wanting custody of his son so I agree that this would be his reason to cover her a**. He looks and seems overly self controlled in interviews. I just have a feeling that he might even be the brains in the ‘hiding’ part. If D was too drunk to realize what she was doing I cannot see her hide the baby this successfully.

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 12:01 PM
Just for argument sake, say DB has done something to Lisa. I've heard many comments that JI may be in on the coverup because he may have been scared to lose custody of his child.

However, that just possibly may not happen. He was working and whatever DB did was of her own actions and not his.

I take a look at Terri and Kaine and how Kaine managed to have custody of their baby, even though Kaine stated Terri drank etc. I don't think JI's son would be taken from him in this instance either unless there was absolute proof that he was very negligent himself. He's more likely to lose his child and his way of living now if he's involved in a cover-up. If he's involved, did he not think of that?

I am so torn over him and whether or not he knows what happened if DB did in fact do something to Lisa. But what I find is that he must know what happened or he wouldn't have inconsistent stories, etc.

I can't figure it out. If I came home and my hubby said they did something to one of my children, I wouldn't stand by him. No way no how. So why is he still beside DB? Is it because he helped or because he's in a huge denial?

I don't know that I believe JI was in on it. If he was, I think the reason he would cover for DB is that he doesn't want to lose her. He seems to be under her spell or something. Let's face it, he's not a handsome man, and might have some self-esteem issues.

We see this in other cases against children, just with the roles switched. How many times do we hear about a boyfriend abusing/hurting a woman's child, and she stands by him? If it was proven that JI is in on it, I believe this would be the reason.

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 12:03 PM
We heard earlier that JI was aggressive in wanting custody of his son so I agree that this would be his reason to cover her a**. He looks and seems overly self controlled in interviews. I just have a feeling that he might even be the brains in the ‘hiding’ part. If D was too drunk to realize what she was doing I cannot see her hide the baby this successfully.

I'm not so sure that I would put any stock in the story of him being the aggressor in his child custody battle. It seems like he would have been about 18 at the time. How old with this girl be? There may have been a lot of immaturity, and bad feelings at play with that.

Pita
10-23-2011, 12:05 PM
If your conscience is clear there is no reason to lie about an accident....

Yes but her being drunk she may have though it would be classified as murder..I hate all this guessing and wish they would just give us a snippet of where this is going...

curiousc
10-23-2011, 12:09 PM
I don't know that I believe JI was in on it. If he was, I think the reason he would cover for DB is that he doesn't want to lose her. He seems to be under her spell or something. Let's face it, he's not a handsome man, and might have some self-esteem issues.

We see this in other cases against children, just with the roles switched. How many times do we hear about a boyfriend abusing/hurting a woman's child, and she stands by him? If it was proven that JI is in on it, I believe this would be the reason.

It amazes me to see it in other cases too where one spouse stands behind the other one accused of doing something. It boggles my mind but I do know it happens. It boggles my mind how anybody can kill any person be it a child or an adult, but that happens too often as well.

Seriously, I hope that if JI knows something if, in fact, DB did something and he is not involved that his conscience will prevail.

Rooster27
10-23-2011, 12:13 PM
Just for argument sake, say DB has done something to Lisa. I've heard many comments that JI may be in on the coverup because he may have been scared to lose custody of his child.

However, that just possibly may not happen. He was working and whatever DB did was of her own actions and not his.

I take a look at Terri and Kaine and how Kaine managed to have custody of their baby, even though Kaine stated Terri drank etc. I don't think JI's son would be taken from him in this instance either unless there was absolute proof that he was very negligent himself. He's more likely to lose his child and his way of living now if he's involved in a cover-up. If he's involved, did he not think of that?

I am so torn over him and whether or not he knows what happened if DB did in fact do something to Lisa. But what I find is that he must know what happened or he wouldn't have inconsistent stories, etc.

I can't figure it out. If I came home and my hubby said they did something to one of my children, I wouldn't stand by him. No way no how. So why is he still beside DB? Is it because he helped or because he's in a huge denial?

I was thinking more about her fear of losing everything.

But yes, this is a huge puzzlement. JI's demeanor, what he is saying, or not saying, and the reasoning.

Denial, maybe. They are engaged. At a point where they are wanting to believe in on another. Look at that poor husband of the woman driving the wrong way on the highway. Was it two years ago now? Four beautiful kids killed along with her and other innocent people. Open vodka found in the car. Incoherent on the phone, Doesn't pull over to rest, keeps driving after being told not to. The husband refuses to think it was her fault. Still. She was not drinking he says! We want to believe people we love. Who would want to believe their girlfriend was hurtful or neglectful to their baby. To most of us, it's incomprehensible. The parents of son in laws, who first stand behind them when their own daughters are missing/murdered? Until facts come out that are shocking to them.

No one wants to believe horror. Yes, it could be denial.

As far as Kaine Horman, didn't he have custody before he married Terry? And it wasn't questioned. There would have been no custody issue until after the disappearance of Kyron. Or do i not know part of that story. It was reported that Terry drank, but i do not think Desiree questioned the parenting to the point of suing for it. There was no event, until the poor child went missing.

But this is off topic and belongs on another thread, sorry.

This is a tough one to believe, that JI came home that night, and was lied to and he bought it, but it is possible. If she did something and he knew about it, he could lose his child and much more. Why should he lie, unless he did have a fear of that loss.

i still say that neither one look like parents who are frantic about their child being taken and off somewhere in the big world without them. You can't always judge a book, but their demeanor seems off to me.

I hope i made sense there.
Probably not.

JMO

natsound
10-23-2011, 12:19 PM
Doesn't the warrant actually say the dog hit on an area of the FLOOR of the master bedroom?

Donjeta
10-23-2011, 12:22 PM
my thoughts too.

Also there are two other children involved that you would like to retain custody of. I guess she only has custody of one, but she is the caretaker of the other in the same house. Correct me here, if i am wrong. Seems a reason to make the intruder theory up. A big reason. You're engaged, to someone that makes a living. There is a lifestyle, a future, a relationship that is at risk by admitting you neglected your child. She says she may have been too drunk to know what the H*** may have been happening in the house as far as "sounds" She admits this on the air, but says it doesn't have anything to do with her daughter going missing. Sarcasm..... so, I'm too drunk to hear anything, but i didn't neglect my sick baby, and gee, she disappeared. Why admit something that points to negligence when you are afraid of the ramifications of being an unfit parent. I suppose unfit parent is better than being accused of murder. MOO.

Maybe because you've got no choice because you got caught?
She didn't admit it in the beginning, at least not in the media.

In da Middle
10-23-2011, 12:22 PM
LE removed a roll of carpeting. We heard the cadaver dogs hit on carpet in master bedroom. Yet, the master bedroom still has carpet. Well- what if DB replaced the carpet with another piece - so, the clicking noise the boys heard was DB tacking the new carpet down. The LE did not take the carpet currently in master bedroom, because that was the replaced piece. The roll of carpet they took was the carpet that was actually in the room that night (before replaced) that they may have found stashed somewhere in the basement or garage after DB had removed it.

The man carrying the baby most likely stopped somewhere along the way - if they can figure out who he is then need to look at his car, home, etc.
And take out all the furniture and replace it????:waitasec:

curiousc
10-23-2011, 12:24 PM
I was thinking more about her fear of losing everything.

But yes, this is a huge puzzlement. JI's demeanor, what he is saying, or not saying, and the reasoning.

Denial, maybe. They are engaged. At a point where they are wanting to believe in on another. Look at that poor husband of the woman driving the wrong way on the highway. Was it two years ago now? Four beautiful kids killed along with her and other innocent people. Open vodka found in the car. Incoherent on the phone, Doesn't pull over to rest, keeps driving after being told not to. The husband refuses to think it was her fault. Still. She was not drinking he says! We want to believe people we love. Who would want to believe their girlfriend was hurtful or neglectful to their baby. To most of us, it's incomprehensible. The parents of son in laws, who first stand behind them when their own daughters are missing/murdered? Until facts come out that are shocking to them.

No one wants to believe horror. Yes, it could be denial.

As far as Kaine Horman, didn't he have custody before he married Terry? And it wasn't questioned. There would have been no custody issue until after the disappearance of Kyron. Or do i not know part of that story. It was reported that Terry drank, but i do not think Desiree questioned the parenting to the point of suing for it. There was no event, until the poor child went missing.

But this is off topic and belongs on another thread, sorry.

This is a tough one to believe, that JI came home that night, and was lied to and he bought it, but it is possible. If she did something and he knew about it, he could lose his child and much more. Why should he lie, unless he did have a fear of that loss.

i still say that neither one look like parents who are frantic about their child being taken and off somewhere in the big world without them. You can't always judge a book, but their demeanor seems off to me.

I hope i made sense there.
Probably not.

JMO

You made a lot of sense. I suppose the shock of it all could be what happened that night when he got home as well, and, once again, I say if DB is involved. Panic could have set in and one doesn't think straight. Perhaps he is truly believing her story that an intruder came in and took their baby. I don't know. But I do believe you are right, no one wants to believe horror and think their spouse is involved.

His demeanor is puzzling to me and so are his inconsistent statements. Which leads me to think he could covering for DB but possibly not involved in any cover-up.

Time will only tell but I hope the truth comes out very soon! I pray that this doesn't go into another cold case like so many others out there. :(

JMO

ETA: Terri and Kaine had a baby together and Kaine has custody of her :)

grandmaj
10-23-2011, 12:25 PM
Yes page 6 of the Affidavit for warrant made a statement that an HRD dog hit on a scent in the master bedroom near the bed. But do we know if the dog(s) hit anywhere else?

http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf

In da Middle
10-23-2011, 12:28 PM
I thought that too, when I first saw it. Just a random soul, walking near a random woods. Just a souped up press story from the lawyers. But doesn't the location tie in with something? Isn't that why they are relating it? Does anyone have the location info on the woods they were searching (not the area next to their house, the search that happened days earlier) the dumpster fire, and this surveillance footage location? I am going to look back.
Yes the location and time matters because it is in direct line with both sightings and in the same possible time frame. I am not saying it is directly related, but it does fit. I am sure LE has enhanced the image and checked it out long before this came to light from the media what ever the outcome really is.

sarx
10-23-2011, 12:28 PM
It says
"In the area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed"
so it actually doesn't say anything about carpet.

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 12:30 PM
One thing I seem to recall about the roll of carpet removed was that, the top side of the carpet appeared to be dark to me. Not grey like the carpet we see in the master bedroom. Lisa's carpet is a maroon or burgundy print. I went back and tried to see if that carpet was missing in the video with the lawyer walkthrough, but the stupid abc banner was blocking my view.

You can see LE carrying the roll of carpet here:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-17-hour-search-family-home/story?id=14779537

curiousc
10-23-2011, 12:30 PM
Yes page 6 of the Affidavit for warrant made a statement that an HRD dog hit on a scent in the master bedroom near the bed. But do we know if the dog(s) hit anywhere else?

http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf

No we don't know but I think we all wish we had that info :) There was recently turned earth in a spot in the garden and I'd like to know if there was a hit there too.

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 12:30 PM
Yes but her being drunk she may have though it would be classified as murder..I hate all this guessing and wish they would just give us a snippet of where this is going...

If she were drunk, and there was an accident, I the most they would go for would be involuntary manslaughter. I can't see trying her for murder because her baby fell, and she was too drunk to prevent it. That just seems excessive if her worst sin were having too much to drink.

They don't often even charge parents who leave their kids in the car to die during the summer.

Wise Old Owl
10-23-2011, 12:33 PM
Yes page 6 of the Affidavit for warrant made a statement that an HRD dog hit on a scent in the master bedroom near the bed. But do we know if the dog(s) hit anywhere else?

http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf
No grandma we don't. I've questioned this as well. I asked our dog experts and from what I gathered - even if there were additional hits - they wouldn't necessarily be listed in the SW. Those "hits" could have been communicated to the judge orally, in chambers, when discussing and requesting the search warrant be issued with the judge.

I find it hard to believe that in a house that big that little Lisa died in that spot, was then wrapped in the same spot and then carried out, especially if DB was drunk (which I'm not necessarily buying - yet).

Or there could have been additional hits by dogs once the warrant was being executed - those wouldn't be released either.

So, again, we are somewhat in the dark and questioning continues.

Clear as mud?

Dr.Fessel
10-23-2011, 12:34 PM
We heard earlier that JI was aggressive in wanting custody of his son so I agree that this would be his reason to cover her a**. He looks and seems overly self controlled in interviews. I just have a feeling that he might even be the brains in the ‘hiding’ part. If D was too drunk to realize what she was doing I cannot see her hide the baby this successfully.

JI's self control reminds me of a guy I knew years ago. All the guy would eat was cheeseburgers and fries. That's it, nothing else.

In da Middle
10-23-2011, 12:34 PM
We heard earlier that JI was aggressive in wanting custody of his son so I agree that this would be his reason to cover her a**. He looks and seems overly self controlled in interviews. I just have a feeling that he might even be the brains in the ‘hiding’ part. If D was too drunk to realize what she was doing I cannot see her hide the baby this successfully.
We heard from the media it was aggressive. The court dockets are short and sweet. Most 'aggressive' child custody battles I have looked up are miles and miles of dockets. Just not seeing aggressive but I don't know either side of the story, just docket history. There just didn't seem to be any fight in her as she didn't even go to court.

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 12:35 PM
One thing I seem to recall about the roll of carpet removed was that, the top side of the carpet appeared to be dark to me. Not grey like the carpet we see in the master bedroom. Lisa's carpet is a maroon or burgundy print. I went back and tried to see if that carpet was missing in the video with the lawyer walkthrough, but the stupid abc banner was blocking my view.

Interesting to note that Cyndi Short doesn't show us the whole house on the tour. She also never says that there wasn't any carpet pieces taken, only that there appears to be wall to wall carpet in the parent's room.

Also, from the video the house doesn't appear very clean. It was noted earlier on this board that the house was so clean that it appeared suspicious to them. Does anyone know if it looks like the house is less "clean?"

Magnifying Glass
10-23-2011, 12:37 PM
It says
"In the area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed"
so it actually doesn't say anything about carpet.

THIS! Thank you.

Just because a defense attorney says/shows the carpet is in tact doesn't mean it is relevant to THE spot the dog hit on. LE took what they needed.


All my opinion :twocents:

grandmaj
10-23-2011, 12:37 PM
Well what if, there was a pair of socks, or shoes, or an item of clothing on the floor near the bed? Or if the comforter was the hit ya know?

This affidavit is meant to give enough information to get the warrant without really giving away what evidence they might have. They give just enough information. Wasn't there a bedspread/comforter taken?

Rooster27
10-23-2011, 12:40 PM
ETA: Terri and Kaine had a baby together and Kaine has custody of her :)

Thank goodness! And yes, that was my point... after the disappearance of Kyron. She did lose the custody because of info that she may have been involved with a murder plot correct?

I sure hope both of these poor children get justice somehow.

curiousc
10-23-2011, 12:40 PM
Interesting to note that Cyndi Short doesn't show us the whole house on the tour. She also never says that there wasn't any carpet pieces taken, only that there appears to be wall to wall carpet in the parent's room.

Also, from the video the house doesn't appear very clean. It was noted earlier on this board that the house was so clean that it appeared suspicious to them. Does anyone know if it looks like the house is less "clean?"

I think after the CSI and LE were done with that house it would be less than clean :) Actually, I am quite surprised that it's not more untidy.

grandmaj
10-23-2011, 12:41 PM
Another thought. What if there was a glow bug toy on the floor? See what I mean? Not necessarily the carpet itself. I think it was easy to jump to that since we saw a carpet being removed. But was the carpet removed "THE" carpet. :blowkiss:

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 12:42 PM
THIS! Thank you.

Just because a defense attorney says/shows the carpet is in tact doesn't mean it is relevant to THE spot the dog hit on. LE took what they needed.


All my opinion :twocents:

Agreed! Defense attorney was spinning the story the whole time. She said that for a seventeen hour search, it didn't appear that the police/FBI were thorough. How would it look if they were thorough, that would be different than how it was shown? A lot of what they were doing appeared to be xrays. That wouldn't leave a mark, so... what are you saying, Cyndi?

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 12:43 PM
Lord, I'd hate to think that a spotless house was somehow suspicious. I'm an uber neat freak.

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 12:43 PM
Another thought. What if there was a glow bug toy on the floor? See what I mean? Not necessarily the carpet itself. I think it was easy to jump to that since we saw a carpet being removed. But was the carpet removed "THE" carpet. :blowkiss:

That's what I was thinking grandmaj! What if it were a blanket, or an article of clothing on the floor?

curiousc
10-23-2011, 12:44 PM
Thank goodness! And yes, that was my point... after the disappearance of Kyron. She did lose the custody because of info that she may have been involved with a murder plot correct?

I sure hope both of these poor children get justice somehow.

You are correct...it was because of the murder plot.

It sickens me to see so many cases where they remain unsolved and justice isn't being served. I hope this case isn't another one of them :( What I think is very scarey is that Lisa is a baby and she may be hard to find or may never be found. For some reason I think that river is probably the likely place that she may be in.

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 12:44 PM
Lord, I'd hate to think that a spotless house was somehow suspicious. I'm an uber neat freak.

I know, me too Mountain_Kat! lol, don't judge me because I clean a lot! :snooty:

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 12:47 PM
I think after the CSI and LE were done with that house it would be less than clean :) Actually, I am quite surprised that it's not more untidy.

Right! That was my point. It didn't seem clean at all. Yet, earlier their house was described as so clean that some were actually suspicious of the level of cleanliness.

Yet, Cyndi Short now wants us to believe that it is still too clean to have been thoroughly searched?! What gives? :waitasec:

grandmaj
10-23-2011, 12:47 PM
OK a little OT but how do you all find time to clean when on WS? I get behind between working and WS. :floorlaugh: I am a clean freak but WS vs. Cleaning? Now and then I just bring in the leaf blower for a quick dust.






JOKING :silly:

LadyPirate
10-23-2011, 12:47 PM
The more they spin their stories now, the less likely to find a jury that will convict. If you put enough doubt in people's minds now, they feel they are more likely to get their client off the hook.

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 12:48 PM
That's what I was thinking grandmaj! What if it were a blanket, or an article of clothing on the floor?

Does a "Cars" blanket sound like something a 10 month baby girl would have? Sounds more like something the boys would have, doesn't it?

Wonder why LE took that, and where it was found?

(And I don't like thinking about that either, I might add.)

Marple
10-23-2011, 12:49 PM
I don't think the house looks unclean but it does look cluttered, which is what I would expect to see from a family with small children. (Don't even get me started on teenagers!)

The bedrooms don't appear to be very big, which is typical of houses built in 1958. You just can't get all your stuff in those rooms! :)

curiousc
10-23-2011, 12:49 PM
Right! That was my point. It didn't seem clean at all. Yet, earlier their house was described as so clean that some were actually suspicious of the level of cleanliness.

Yet, Cyndi Short now wants us to believe that it is still too clean to have been thoroughly searched?! What gives? :waitasec:

Actually, thinking of this logically, CSI were taking many Xrays in and out for hours that day. I do suppose that they would need tidy areas to take Xrays of the walls, pipes and floor. So, Cyndi Short, it makes sense that it would be clean.

Marple
10-23-2011, 12:50 PM
Does a "Cars" blanket sound like something a 10 month baby girl would have? Sounds more like something the boys would have, doesn't it?

Wonder why LE took that, and where it was found?

(And I don't like thinking about that either, I might add.)

My granddaughter just turned one year old and she LOVES the movie Cars.

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 12:51 PM
Does a "Cars" blanket sound like something a 10 month baby girl would have? Sounds more like something the boys would have, doesn't it?

Wonder why LE took that, and where it was found?

(And I don't like thinking about that either, I might add.)

Do we know if the carpeting from either of the boy's rooms was still there? I don't think that either of them was responsible for anything happening to Lisa, though. Just that she may have been placed in one of their rooms. Perhaps in the room of the boy who was in mom's bed?

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 12:52 PM
OK a little OT but how do you all find time to clean when on WS? I get behind between working and WS. :floorlaugh: I am a clean freak but WS vs. Cleaning? Now and then I just bring in the leaf blower for a quick dust.

JOKING :silly:

I normally only peek in at WS's during coffee breaks. But when I'm following a breaking case, I usually end up cleaning at night after I do the dinner dishes. I don't watch NG or shows like that. Good time to catch up on the stuff I can't get to during the day. :)

curiousc
10-23-2011, 12:55 PM
I don't think the house looks unclean but it does look cluttered, which is what I would expect to see from a family with small children. (Don't even get me started on teenagers!)

The bedrooms don't appear to be very big, which is typical of houses built in 1958. You just can't get all your stuff in those rooms! :)

I swear I have almost given up on a tidy, uncluttered house until my 3 kids are grown and moved out. I have many years until that happens :)

Wise Old Owl
10-23-2011, 12:57 PM
Another thought. What if there was a glow bug toy on the floor? See what I mean? Not necessarily the carpet itself. I think it was easy to jump to that since we saw a carpet being removed. But was the carpet removed "THE" carpet. :blowkiss:
Here's a thought. Maybe "a lot" of stuff was on the floor when the dog hit. So, one at a time, LE moves the items and lets the dog "smell". With that, maybe they got down to the carpet and decided to remove that to see if the "smell" was actually into the bare floor? IDK - but I kinda think you're partly right gram - there could have been "items" on the floor that the dog "hit" on as well.

As for the condition of the house. I do believe that LE and the FBI were very conscious of what they were doing and preserving the condition of the house before the search. Remember Zahra's house? Once they went in and really did the search. IIRC LE did something like $30 thousand in damage to that house. Removing pieces of walls and floor and tearing up the drain traps in the bathroom and taking cabinets off the walls in the kitchen. That house was razed after that. So, I think LE was very careful to preserve the "livable condition" of that house.

As for what was actually taken. What we've seen - it is a "typewritten" list and very short. My experience of reading executed SW's - IF we are privy to seeing it ALL. There is usually an inventory list of what is taken. And this list is handwritten on a separate piece of paper. Kinda like there's one person who records everything that is "bagged and tagged" - and is recorded on this paper. That is then attached to the SW and is signed by the "owner of record or property" so they are aware of what LE has taken. For exp - we know they either: 1) took the computer physically or 2) copied the hard drive - BUT we have no confirmation in the paperwork that was released that either a hard drive/tower was entered into evidence or just a CD copy of the hard drive was entered/taken. KWIM?

We weren't privy to the actual inventory of everything that was taken during that 17 hour search - and, IMHO we shouldn't be - not yet.

Dr.Fessel
10-23-2011, 12:57 PM
OK a little OT but how do you all find time to clean when on WS? I get behind between working and WS. :floorlaugh: I am a clean freak but WS vs. Cleaning? Now and then I just bring in the leaf blower for a quick dust.






JOKING :silly:

LOL never thought of a leaf blower! I would have to wait till it all dried out from bringing the garden hose in.:waitasec:

LadyPirate
10-23-2011, 01:01 PM
I swear I have almost given up on a tidy, uncluttered house until my 3 kids are grown and moved out. I have many years until that happens :)

As long as your dishes are clean, the beds are clean, and the floor cleaned once in a while, you're good. Kids grow up way too fast. You want to remember the time spent with them, not how often you mopped. Once they are gone, your house will be clean and uncluttered and you will be terribly bored. That's when you find yourself with 2 dogs from the shelter that strew toys all over the floor and make it look like you've done nothing in days. Just trust me on this one.......

Wise Old Owl
10-23-2011, 01:03 PM
OK a little OT but how do you all find time to clean when on WS? I get behind between working and WS. :floorlaugh: I am a clean freak but WS vs. Cleaning? Now and then I just bring in the leaf blower for a quick dust.






JOKING :silly:
I have a sign posted in my living room:


ONLY DULL PEOPLE HAVE IMMACULATE HOUSES!


And that's a saying I've lived by for many years......:floorlaugh:





Just sayin'..................................

curiousc
10-23-2011, 01:05 PM
As long as your dishes are clean, the beds are clean, and the floor cleaned once in a while, you're good. Kids grow up way too fast. You want to remember the time spent with them, not how often you mopped. Once they are gone, your house will be clean and uncluttered and you will be terribly bored. That's when you find yourself with 2 dogs from the shelter that strew toys all over the floor and make it look like you've done nothing in days. Just trust me on this one.......

So true :) I also have two teen stepkids that come over on the weekends, I have two dogs, two parrots, a hamster and a mouse.

I actually find that many times it's the dogs and parrots that make more of a mess than the kids. LOL

mamacita
10-23-2011, 01:05 PM
this GMA interview with the family's lawyer regarding the cadaver/carpet hit is interesting... what are your thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VaaJafJwXRA

treeseeker
10-23-2011, 01:06 PM
Photo of CSI carrying the carpet, appears toward the home. IMO it looks like they put the carpet back, around the back of the house.


KCTV5: http://www.kctv5.com/story/15744160/police-finish-collecting-evidence-from-baby-lisa-home

Donjeta
10-23-2011, 01:08 PM
Does a "Cars" blanket sound like something a 10 month baby girl would have? Sounds more like something the boys would have, doesn't it?

Wonder why LE took that, and where it was found?

(And I don't like thinking about that either, I might add.)

It doesn't sound particularly odd to me, my baby daughter inherited a lot of baby stuff from her older brother.

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 01:08 PM
Did WOO just call me dull?! :bigfight:

KCMommie
10-23-2011, 01:13 PM
Photo of CSI carrying the carpet, appears toward the home. IMO it looks like they put the carpet back, around the back of the house.


KCTV5: http://www.kctv5.com/story/15744160/police-finish-collecting-evidence-from-baby-lisa-home

I 'think' quite a bit about this. If the family was so concerned this investigation was going in the wrong direction they didn't seem to be concerned to do ANYTHING about this....what day are we on now? Ugh.

I think G-Ma has the right idea. We witnessed a carpet being removed. Now I want to know from where? (It does not appear to be Lisa's room) amongst other things...

Wise Old Owl
10-23-2011, 01:14 PM
Did WOO just call me dull?! :bigfight:
Who me? :blushing:

Why I would never.......................

HEY! Why you smackin' me with that fish?


***goes looking for the WS issued light saber******


Just you wait MK - I'll be back....................... :floorlaugh:

KCMommie
10-23-2011, 01:18 PM
Photo of CSI carrying the carpet, appears toward the home. IMO it looks like they put the carpet back, around the back of the house.


KCTV5: http://www.kctv5.com/story/15744160/police-finish-collecting-evidence-from-baby-lisa-home

I did not see them "take" this carpet. However, I did see them move it a bit down the driveway to roll it out. Is this an 8 sec byte of when they moved the carpet, or did they actually leave the carpet in the back? Anyone see this?

KCMommie
10-23-2011, 01:25 PM
Photo of CSI carrying the carpet, appears toward the home. IMO it looks like they put the carpet back, around the back of the house.


KCTV5: http://www.kctv5.com/story/15744160/police-finish-collecting-evidence-from-baby-lisa-home

"The carpet that was paraded in and out that we were allowed to see actually came from the shed at the back of the house, and it was not inside the house at all. There is no carpeting that was removed from any portion of the house. And although that search was described as the search that was supposedly going to be invasive, I was concerned for the family that I would go in and see their home destroyed...in fact there is thankfully no destruction," said Short.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-representing-parents-discusses-latest-developments

Dr.Fessel
10-23-2011, 01:26 PM
That lawyer looked truly baffled and I have to admit so am I. It really appears they took the carpet out and put it back in.

Dr.Fessel
10-23-2011, 01:34 PM
"And having met them, this young couple, they have not withheld anything good or bad about who they are. When Deborah said she had gone to get this wine. Guess what they went to the store and got video of the wine guess what that proved. She is a truth-teller, that is what that proved," said Short.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-representing-parents-discusses-latest-developments

Still some slippery room there for the chicken/egg question.

Did she fail to tell them about the trip then they found the receipt and asked her and she told?

jjenny
10-23-2011, 01:34 PM
"The carpet that was paraded in and out that we were allowed to see actually came from the shed at the back of the house, and it was not inside the house at all. There is no carpeting that was removed from any portion of the house. And although that search was described as the search that was supposedly going to be invasive, I was concerned for the family that I would go in and see their home destroyed...in fact there is thankfully no destruction," said Short.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-representing-parents-discusses-latest-developments

I believe instead of taking walls apart they took x-rays of what was in the walls. I guess they could have made it destructive but didn't.

Dee10
10-23-2011, 01:40 PM
this GMA interview with the family's lawyer regarding the cadaver/carpet hit is interesting... what are your thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VaaJafJwXRA

This is so confusing!

We see a carpet or the carpet on the parents bedroom floor. We saw a rolled up carpet outside. Do we know if they took it is a great question. The dog did hit on the bedroom carpet (Oct. 17th) & it must be true as it is sworn to in the affidavit. From the Return/Receipt the list of items taken, carpet is not listed (Oct. 19th). Why, oh why, would they not take the carpet? I don't understand.

http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf

CA Lady
10-23-2011, 01:40 PM
If as the attorney Short said there was no carpet taken from the house, then that leaves me to assume the HRD hit on something on the floor other than carpet.

CA Lady
10-23-2011, 01:44 PM
The word carpet is not mentioned in the search warrant. I believe we incorrectly assumed it had to be on the carpet which was on the floor.

Dee10
10-23-2011, 01:46 PM
Great point CA, it said "on the floor" nothing about carpet. A multi-color comforter was taken...hmmm, maybe that was on the floor?

Quiche
10-23-2011, 01:48 PM
Was the day of the carpet going into the backyard, the same day they asked for another no fly zone over the house so the public wouldn't see the dogs at work? For some reason I have felt they spread that carpet out for the dogs... but, if we didn't see it go into an evidence van, I don't think it amounted to much. Just my thoughts...

CA Lady
10-23-2011, 01:58 PM
An interesting thought I just had about bringing the roll of carpet out to the front of the house to unroll.......wasn't there lots of room back by the shed to roll it out there? Was it for the camera's??

~n/t~
10-23-2011, 01:58 PM
It says
"In the area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed"
so it actually doesn't say anything about carpet.

That may explain LE's statement <paraphrasing> that they're looking for something that may not have been there before? Maybe the carpeting in the master bedroom was just recently put there?

If not, I'm at a loss as to why it wasn't taken for testing. All of it. Not just where the dog hit near the bed.

Nefriahaia
10-23-2011, 02:02 PM
Who me? :blushing:

Why I would never.......................

HEY! Why you smackin' me with that fish?


***goes looking for the WS issued light saber******


Just you wait MK - I'll be back....................... :floorlaugh:

quit it, you two, you're raising dust!

justamommy
10-23-2011, 02:05 PM
That may explain LE's statement <paraphrasing> that they're looking for something that may not have been there before? Maybe the carpeting in the master bedroom was just recently put there?

If not, I'm at a loss as to why it wasn't taken for testing. All of it. Not just where the dog hit near the bed.

Could they have taken video of the cadaver dogs at work as evidence? I don't know how all of this works, so just a thought.

In da Middle
10-23-2011, 02:07 PM
Photo of CSI carrying the carpet, appears toward the home. IMO it looks like they put the carpet back, around the back of the house.


KCTV5: http://www.kctv5.com/story/15744160/police-finish-collecting-evidence-from-baby-lisa-home
This is what I observed while watching the live video. They took the roll carpet and took it to the back of the house. What they did with it after that is a total mystery as the live shots quit shortly after this.

In da Middle
10-23-2011, 02:10 PM
"And having met them, this young couple, they have not withheld anything good or bad about who they are. When Deborah said she had gone to get this wine. Guess what they went to the store and got video of the wine guess what that proved. She is a truth-teller, that is what that proved," said Short.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-representing-parents-discusses-latest-developments

Still some slippery room there for the chicken/egg question.

Did she fail to tell them about the trip then they found the receipt and asked her and she told?
We dont know what 'found' consisted of. It could very well she told them where to 'find' it when down at the station being questioned and telling them about the store run. We just don't know.

In da Middle
10-23-2011, 02:11 PM
I believe instead of taking walls apart they took x-rays of what was in the walls. I guess they could have made it destructive but didn't.
And no destruction probably means they didn't find anything at least in the walls or floors.

~n/t~
10-23-2011, 02:12 PM
Could they have taken video of the cadaver dogs at work as evidence? I don't know how all of this works, so just a thought.

I don't know if they did or not but following CA's case, they have to document everything. Every single procedure.

Donjeta
10-23-2011, 02:16 PM
"The carpet that was paraded in and out that we were allowed to see actually came from the shed at the back of the house, and it was not inside the house at all. There is no carpeting that was removed from any portion of the house. And although that search was described as the search that was supposedly going to be invasive, I was concerned for the family that I would go in and see their home destroyed...in fact there is thankfully no destruction," said Short.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-representing-parents-discusses-latest-developments

It sounds like they just took the carpet out to be out of the way when they looked at something else.

I wouldn't think they'd put anything they want to do a forensic exam on out in the driveway anyway.

Donjeta
10-23-2011, 02:19 PM
"And having met them, this young couple, they have not withheld anything good or bad about who they are. When Deborah said she had gone to get this wine. Guess what they went to the store and got video of the wine guess what that proved. She is a truth-teller, that is what that proved," said Short.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-representing-parents-discusses-latest-developments

Still some slippery room there for the chicken/egg question.

Did she fail to tell them about the trip then they found the receipt and asked her and she told?

Well I'm sorry but if one lies about a lot of stuff and then tells the truth about doing one thing that has witnesses to it it does not a truth-teller make.

CaraJay
10-23-2011, 02:29 PM
After watching the video of the bedroom a few things struck me as out of place. For one thing the carpet was not tacked down. Other carpet could of been removed and this stuff put down. There was no molding around the door in the bedroom or no baseboard around the door. When they panned the rest of the room it had base board molding, what happened to that. I think a something was removed we are not seeing the whole picture. Color me confused. Now back to my house cleaning.

gwenabob
10-23-2011, 02:54 PM
I have a sign posted in my living room:


ONLY DULL PEOPLE HAVE IMMACULATE HOUSES!


And that's a saying I've lived by for many years......:floorlaugh:





Just sayin'..................................

Amen and Amen. That is my motto. If a visitor to my house is only here to see how much time I spend cleaning, they will be very disappointed. Now, if they want to hear some interesting conversation, then that's another story.

Besides, I'll have to get rid of not only my kids and my clutterbug husband as well before my house stays tidy. I think I would rather have my husband and a little extra dust.

HatesSociopaths
10-23-2011, 03:02 PM
http://i51.tinypic.com/2s92ik3.png

gwenabob
10-23-2011, 03:04 PM
This is what I observed while watching the live video. They took the roll carpet and took it to the back of the house. What they did with it after that is a total mystery as the live shots quit shortly after this.

It appears the carpet was in storage someplace in back? Maybe it was remnant carpeting from inside the house. I suppose they unrolled it to make sure there wasn't a little body hidden inside it.

Jumping off here, I suspect the dog did not hit on the carpet in the parents bedroom, but like others have said, on something else on the floor. Comforter? Cars blanket? Glowbug toy? The warrant didn't specifically say carpet.

doubt
10-23-2011, 03:04 PM
JI's self control reminds me of a guy I knew years ago. All the guy would eat was cheeseburgers and fries. That's it, nothing else.

JI's self-control, discipline......his entire demeanor... reminds me of a guy i knew years ago, too. that guy even bought a house at 19. he also had serious rage issues and ended up in jail for beating his gf to a pulp. she will never fully recover from the last one. i knew both parties.

they were always involved in some drama or another but like many, i assumed the gf, an extrovert and a heavy drinker, was responsible for it. i can't explain it very well, but she actually did things to shift any negative focus off of him, onto her. in court, the guy was described as "quiet, composed, and loyal to a fault." she was attacked as a "liar with a drinking problem."

at the time, i was finishing up an internship at a domestic violence shelter. i felt horrible for having missed what i now know were huge red flags.

looks can be deceiving.

it troubles me that so many seem to believe JI is under DB's "spell," and that the only explanation for his standing by her must be either extreme shock or denial. i believe it is entirely possible that JI is coming across as the weaker of the two parties because JI wants to come across that way.

the question would then become, why?

curiositycat
10-23-2011, 03:16 PM
JI's self-control, discipline......his entire demeanor... reminds me of a guy i knew years ago, too. that guy even bought a house at 19. he also had serious rage issues and ended up in jail for beating his gf to a pulp. she will never fully recover from the last one. i knew both parties.

they were always involved in some drama or another but like many, i assumed the gf, an extrovert and a heavy drinker, was responsible for it. i can't explain it very well, but she actually did things to shift any negative focus off of him, onto her. in court, the guy was described as "quiet, composed, and loyal to a fault." she was attacked as a "liar with a drinking problem."

at the time, i was finishing up an internship at a domestic violence shelter. i felt horrible for having missed what i now know were huge red flags.

looks can be deceiving.

it troubles me that so many seem to believe JI is under DB's "spell," and that the only explanation for his standing by her must be either extreme shock or denial. i believe it is entirely possible that JI is coming across as the weaker of the two parties because JI wants to come across that way.

the question would then become, why?
ITA. I guess when you work with enough domestic violence victims you start to see things in a different way.
She may be under his spell, rather then the other way around. MOO

natsound
10-23-2011, 04:34 PM
The word carpet is not mentioned in the search warrant. I believe we incorrectly assumed it had to be on the carpet which was on the floor.

It's confusing, because the warrant says the dog hit on an area of the floor by the bed. Well, from what I understand, the room is carpeted. It didn't look like wall to wall carpet, so I wonder if there's an inch or two of bare floor near the head of the bed, and that's where the dog hit.

Also, what are the facts about the rolled up carpet? Short says it came from the shed. Is it a fact that CSI did not take it for evidence?

natsound
10-23-2011, 04:37 PM
This is what I observed while watching the live video. They took the roll carpet and took it to the back of the house. What they did with it after that is a total mystery as the live shots quit shortly after this.

So they took it out of the house, and brought it to the back of the house?

CA Lady
10-23-2011, 04:50 PM
So they took it out of the house, and brought it to the back of the house?

All I remember seeing, CSI carried a roll of carpet down the driveway towards the street from the back somewhere, roll it out, roll it back up, then carry it back up the driveway from which they came. I didn't watch every minute so I can't attest to anything else about a rolled carpet.

Attorney Short stated the rolled carpet was from the shed. I don't know if the rolled carpet we've seen and the one the attorney talked about are the same carpet.

MyBelle
10-23-2011, 04:57 PM
"The carpet that was paraded in and out that we were allowed to see actually came from the shed at the back of the house, and it was not inside the house at all. There is no carpeting that was removed from any portion of the house. And although that search was described as the search that was supposedly going to be invasive, I was concerned for the family that I would go in and see their home destroyed...in fact there is thankfully no destruction," said Short.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-representing-parents-discusses-latest-developments

Paraded? As in the way these attorneys are now parading themselves before the cameras? Surely this attorney is capable of figuring out that the dog hit on items on the floor and that's why the items such as blankets and clothes were seized and not the carpet. I do wonder if the parents switched out the bedroom rug. If so, I'm betting all LE did was remove it from the shed to take photos of it to compare with photos LE took earlier.

I can see why JI wanted everyone to know that DB slept with a fan turned on "high." Apparently, that fan didn't remove all the scent.

JMO

MyBelle
10-23-2011, 05:05 PM
All I remember seeing, CSI carried a roll of carpet down the driveway towards the street from the back somewhere, roll it out, roll it back up, then carry it back up the driveway from which they came. I didn't watch every minute so I can't attest to anything else about a rolled carpet.

Attorney Short stated the rolled carpet was from the shed. I don't know if all the rolled carpet we've seen and the one the attorney talked about the same.

I think LE was sending a message to the parents about the carpet and that's why they stepped in front of the cameras with it. The parents' own attorney walked into that house assuming the carpet was from the bedroom and later learned it was from the shed. The only way she would know that is if the parents told her. The parents are not being any more candid with their own attorney than they are with LE.

JMO

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 05:46 PM
It looks to me like someone (LE?) removed the molding around the master bedroom door.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844 (1:58 mark)

Would you normally see a door frame with no molding like that?

Dee10
10-23-2011, 05:52 PM
Is it a fact that CSI did not take it for evidence?

Snipped by me

Apparently, as it was not listed as an item taken on the official documentation from the home on the 19th. (See Page 3)

http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf

Karmaa
10-23-2011, 06:21 PM
"And having met them, this young couple, they have not withheld anything good or bad about who they are. When Deborah said she had gone to get this wine. Guess what they went to the store and got video of the wine guess what that proved. She is a truth-teller, that is what that proved," said Short.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-representing-parents-discusses-latest-developments

Still some slippery room there for the chicken/egg question.

Did she fail to tell them about the trip then they found the receipt and asked her and she told?

No, I think we are finally being told information from the inside. It sounds to me like the lawyer is saying that Debbie didn't lie to LE, which has been a big question mark. If Debbie told investigators everything from the beginning, then the other stuff can be explained. She has been accused of lying when half the information that is being compared came from a third party. And when that third party is the media, we have to keep that in context. We have all seen how often they mess it up.

Kat
10-23-2011, 06:36 PM
"And having met them, this young couple, they have not withheld anything good or bad about who they are. When Deborah said she had gone to get this wine. Guess what they went to the store and got video of the wine guess what that proved. She is a truth-teller, that is what that proved," said Short.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15788106/local-attorney-representing-parents-discusses-latest-developments

Still some slippery room there for the chicken/egg question.

Did she fail to tell them about the trip then they found the receipt and asked her and she told?

snipped:


we might not get the happy ending that we want.

Snipped:


"When you are in crisis and one of the things that is withheld from you is information, it is devastating," said Short. "They are on a roller coaster. They are doing the best they can and holding out hope. They love this little girl. They really did. And she was a precious little girl. So they are just hanging on doing the best they can. And people are surrounding them and supporting them."

I left the quote as was in the article so that it wouldn't look like I was pulling things out of context.

Why in the hello is this defense attn speaking of Lisa in the past tense?

JMHO.

In da Middle
10-23-2011, 07:20 PM
snipped:



Snipped:



I left the quote as was in the article so that it wouldn't look like I was pulling things out of context.

Why in the hello is this defense attn speaking of Lisa in the past tense?

JMHO.Or did the media get it wrong again? Was this spoken interview by the attorney or a written account by the media? We have seen how they get it wrong a lot. I would feel more comfortable actually hearing it.

But if she ACTUALLY said that, then yeah, I would have a problem.

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 07:37 PM
It looks to me like someone (LE?) removed the molding around the master bedroom door.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844 (1:58 mark)

Would you normally see a door frame with no molding like that?

Yep, no door frame. And also no tack strip along the carpet edge to hold it down. Notice she's lifting it up and her hand is underneath the carpeting.
http://i.imgur.com/Zjyrz.jpg

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 07:40 PM
Yep, no door frame. And also no tack strip along the carpet edge to hold it down. Notice she's lifting it up and her hand is underneath the carpeting.
http://i.imgur.com/Zjyrz.jpg

Yeah, I noticed that too. There used to be a video that showed the 2 closets in the parents room. I swore there were no doors on them, but when I went back to view the video link, that video had been editted. Closets no longer shown. Baseball bat by dresser also editted out. Wonder why?

MyBelle
10-23-2011, 07:53 PM
No, I think we are finally being told information from the inside. It sounds to me like the lawyer is saying that Debbie didn't lie to LE, which has been a big question mark. If Debbie told investigators everything from the beginning, then the other stuff can be explained. She has been accused of lying when half the information that is being compared came from a third party. And when that third party is the media, we have to keep that in context. We have all seen how often they mess it up.

We've also seen how often DB has changed details and her version of times and events. You expect a lawyer to admit her client lied? I thought that LE made it pretty clear that they found a receipt for the wine and then they retrieved the security video. No mention that DB had told them anything at all about her purchase of wine.

JMO

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 07:57 PM
Yeah, I noticed that too. There used to be a video that showed the 2 closets in the parents room. I swore there were no doors on them, but when I went back to view the video link, that video had been editted. Closets no longer shown. Baseball bat by dresser also editted out. Wonder why?

Yep, I noticed that too! Here's the parent's room. No doors on the closets:

http://i.imgur.com/6igoT.jpg

Here's a shot of the foreground in the parent's room. A basket with clothes still on the hangers thrown on top:

http://i.imgur.com/KHJSb.jpg

Not sure if this was done during the search, or if she was in the middle of laundry. Laying clothes on hangers down like that, to me it means they were moved out of the way quickly. YMMV on that though.

justamommy
10-23-2011, 07:59 PM
We've also seen how often DB has changed details and her version of times and events. You expect a lawyer to admit her client lied? I thought that LE made it pretty clear that they found a receipt for the wine and then they retrieved the security video. No mention that DB had told them anything at all about her purchase of wine.

JMO

Or....maybe she told them about the trip and gave them the receipt with the time-stamp on it so they could get the video. Just a thought. Who really knows what is going on here? I am totally perplexed....one day I think the child was kidnapped and the next I'm just not sure. :fence:

Donjeta
10-23-2011, 08:02 PM
No, I think we are finally being told information from the inside. It sounds to me like the lawyer is saying that Debbie didn't lie to LE, which has been a big question mark. If Debbie told investigators everything from the beginning, then the other stuff can be explained. She has been accused of lying when half the information that is being compared came from a third party. And when that third party is the media, we have to keep that in context. We have all seen how often they mess it up.

LE said that the parents weren't answering vital questions. It doesn't sound like she told everything to me.

I don't know... I think it's a bit of a leap to assume that if she told the truth about the wine buying she told the truth about everything else as well. Cynthia Short is spinning it well but DB may actually not have had a choice but to tell the truth about the wine buying. She was in the shop with her brother and we don't know what the brother told LE, or the neighbor with whom she was drinking the wine. There was a cash clerk who knew her. If she didn't pay with cash and toss the receipt LE could find out she was shopping if they looked at her finances.

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 08:03 PM
Police looked at a roll of carpet from the garage, but left it there. :waitasec:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844&page=2

Whocanitbenow
10-23-2011, 08:05 PM
Still holding firm to the Kidnapping here. I am just taking in the information bit by bit and trying to make a tapestry of it.

Right now, I am completely convinced someone took that baby. Today's video and walk through made me feel even better about it.

curiousc
10-23-2011, 08:10 PM
Yep, I noticed that too! Here's the parent's room. No doors on the closets:

http://i.imgur.com/6igoT.jpg

Here's a shot of the foreground in the parent's room. A basket with clothes still on the hangers thrown on top:

http://i.imgur.com/KHJSb.jpg

Not sure if this was done during the search, or if she was in the middle of laundry. Laying clothes on hangers down like that, to me it means they were moved out of the way quickly. YMMV on that though.

Sometimes an attic is in the main bedroom closets. Could be that LE and CSI needed better access to it so they took the doors off? Just a thought.

Just saying as our attic is in our main bedroom closet.

twzzlrgirl
10-23-2011, 08:31 PM
Or....maybe she told them about the trip and gave them the receipt with the time-stamp on it so they could get the video. Just a thought. Who really knows what is going on here? I am totally perplexed....one day I think the child was kidnapped and the next I'm just not sure. :fence:

My hope is that she was abducted -- only because that's the only way she is still alive. I'm just not sure who had the moxie to walk into a house, turn all the lights on, steal the phones, and walk away with Lisa.

It reminds me so much of the Kyron Hormon case. All I could think was, if the abductors are getting that bold, then kids aren't even safe in their schools anymore. Utterly terrifying.

Kamille
10-23-2011, 08:33 PM
I believe In Da Middle mentioned that this house was in a sorry state of repair when JI purchased it. Perhaps he has been trying to upgrade things in the house one step at a time and the bedroom has just not been completed?

Can anyone tell me what that box is on the stove top? Please don't tell me that box-o-wine is still sitting there waiting for it's photo op. :doh:

http://i54.tinypic.com/345249l.png

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 08:40 PM
Sometimes an attic is in the main bedroom closets. Could be that LE and CSI needed better access to it so they took the doors off? Just a thought.

Just saying as our attic is in our main bedroom closet.

The molding around the bedroom door is also missing.

In da Middle
10-23-2011, 08:50 PM
We've also seen how often DB has changed details and her version of times and events. You expect a lawyer to admit her client lied? I thought that LE made it pretty clear that they found a receipt for the wine and then they retrieved the security video. No mention that DB had told them anything at all about her purchase of wine.

JMO
Just because they didn't mention that she told them doesn't mean that she didn't. She very well could have told them about going to the store and told them where to "find" the receipt in the house. They would then be expected to follow up on it. Like they did.

Pinkhammer
10-23-2011, 08:55 PM
An interesting thought I just had about bringing the roll of carpet out to the front of the house to unroll.......wasn't there lots of room back by the shed to roll it out there? Was it for the camera's??


Maybe they unrolled it to see if Lisa was inside.

It would not be the first time a murdered person was found rolled up in a carpet.

I'm sure that KC investigators have seen just about everything in their careers.

Pinkhammer
10-23-2011, 08:58 PM
We heard from the media it was aggressive. The court dockets are short and sweet. Most 'aggressive' child custody battles I have looked up are miles and miles of dockets. Just not seeing aggressive but I don't know either side of the story, just docket history. There just didn't seem to be any fight in her as she didn't even go to court.

It cost my grandson $40,000 in legal fees to get permanent custody of his daughter from the girl's mother, to whom he was never married.

She prolonged the whole affair--she could, because she had free representation from Legal Aid.

Pinkhammer
10-23-2011, 09:04 PM
IMO, it'll be a big blow for the use of cadaver dogs period. I'd be willing to bet it all that more than one dog hit there. The FBI certainly has the resources to have a second dog on hand to confirm a positive hit, right? Especially, in a high profile case with a missing baby.

If this hit turns out to be that old, that leaves a lot of questions about how useful dogs like that are in a search.

If anyone died in that house in the past 50 years, investigators already know by now.

(That is, if they have Technical Analyst Penelope Garcia working for them.)

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 09:12 PM
I believe In Da Middle mentioned that this house was in a sorry state of repair when JI purchased it. Perhaps he has been trying to upgrade things in the house one step at a time and the bedroom has just not been completed?

Can anyone tell me what that box is on the stove top? Please don't tell me that box-o-wine is still sitting there waiting for it's photo op. :doh:



Hmmmm...

http://i.imgur.com/veVji.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/GJnmW.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/L0bJQ.jpg

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 09:14 PM
It cost my grandson $40,000 in legal fees to get permanent custody of his daughter from the girl's mother, to whom he was never married.

She prolonged the whole affair--she could, because she had free representation from Legal Aid.

My ex spent close to $60,000 to get custody. And the baby's mother was voluntarily checked into rehab during the battle! It isn't easy, and usually an uphill battle for men to get custody.

Kat
10-23-2011, 09:25 PM
We spent 10's of thousands, almost went into bankruptcy and had to let the suit go because we couldn't afford to continue. Just an aside.

sorrell skye
10-23-2011, 09:26 PM
Hmmmm...

http://i.imgur.com/veVji.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/GJnmW.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/L0bJQ.jpg

It looks like a box of Franzia to me - with the top box flaps open.

Cuoco7
10-23-2011, 09:41 PM
I believe In Da Middle mentioned that this house was in a sorry state of repair when JI purchased it. Perhaps he has been trying to upgrade things in the house one step at a time and the bedroom has just not been completed?

Can anyone tell me what that box is on the stove top? Please don't tell me that box-o-wine is still sitting there waiting for it's photo op. :doh:

http://i54.tinypic.com/345249l.png

Oh yes it is! Interesting....

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 09:43 PM
Oh yes it is! Interesting....

I know, Kamille's got an eagle eye!

AngelWings444
10-23-2011, 10:00 PM
It looks like something that has a picture of a baby on it, not wine. JMO

Cuoco7
10-23-2011, 10:02 PM
I haven't seen the video or pictures that are being shown right now. It was my son's birthday today so I missed most of discussion today and skipped to end. I couldn't find on gma's website for whatever reason. Would someone mind linking for me? TIA

Truthwillsetufree
10-23-2011, 10:09 PM
So true :) I also have two teen stepkids that come over on the weekends, I have two dogs, two parrots, a hamster and a mouse.

I actually find that many times it's the dogs and parrots that make more of a mess than the kids. LOL

BBM-:floorlaugh: Hahhaaa I misread your post the first time and thought it said parents
simply because it's what I was thinking. My kids come home and bring the grandkids and the parents leave as big a mess as the babies.

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 10:25 PM
It looks like something that has a picture of a baby on it, not wine. JMO

Look on the left side of the box on the counter. There is a black spigot on the side. Just like this box:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4053/4398753356_ce375d3230.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/GJnmW.png

Kamille
10-23-2011, 10:26 PM
I haven't seen the video or pictures that are being shown right now. It was my son's birthday today so I missed most of discussion today and skipped to end. I couldn't find on gma's website for whatever reason. Would someone mind linking for me? TIA

It's at the end of the "mystery man" video here...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844

You have to let it load for a minute and the picture of Lisa at the door will skip to the video.

HTH

Cuoco7
10-23-2011, 10:35 PM
It appears to be the 3L franzia... Good eye! Does anyone realize how much 5 glasses of wine really is? It's a bottle and a glass. It's a lot of wine. I drink wine frequently because I love the taste and am interested in wine making etc. But let me just tell you... The last time I drank a bottle of wine to myself, well... It was an unfortunate blackout. Drinking that much is not normal. :blushing: anyways, if DB drank that much that night, she would have been obviously drunk to LE at 4am and still buzzing and COMPLETELY hung over the next morning if not getting sick all night. I'm not buying her drinking that much. I knowmwe've discussed this, but the fact that the box still exists means they probably didn't finish it off.

Cuoco7
10-23-2011, 10:37 PM
Look on the left side of the box on the counter. There is a black spigot on the side. Just like this box:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4053/4398753356_ce375d3230.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/GJnmW.png

Ok that picture on the left is hysterical. Where did you get that?:crazy:

Kamille
10-23-2011, 10:38 PM
Well if that's what it is, how on earth could LE have left it there? It appears to be something that might play into this case in a big way. :waitasec:

Abby Normal
10-23-2011, 10:40 PM
Well, the woman who gave birth to me makes the same claim. That my dad was ruthless and manipulating. But, uh, she was off getting high and also never showed up for court or visitation. It was her way of making herself feel better about choosing addiction over her kids.

matou
10-23-2011, 10:42 PM
Well if that's what it is, how on earth could LE have left it there? It appears to be something that might play into this case in a big way. :waitasec:

It is likely not the original box from that night. Joe the lawyer said his client is not an alcoholic, she likes to drink wine at night.

Abby Normal
10-23-2011, 10:43 PM
It appears to be the 3L franzia... Good eye! Does anyone realize how much 5 glasses of wine really is? It's a bottle and a glass. It's a lot of wine. I drink wine frequently because I love the taste and am interested in wine making etc. But let me just tell you... The last time I drank a bottle of wine to myself, well... It was an unfortunate blackout. Drinking that much is not normal. :blushing: anyways, if DB drank that much that night, she would have been obviously drunk to LE at 4am and still buzzing and COMPLETELY hung over the next morning if not getting sick all night. I'm not buying her drinking that much. I knowmwe've discussed this, but the fact that the box still exists means they probably didn't finish it off.

We get 5-6 per bottle. We don't like our cups filled to the brim though.

It all depends on the cups involved.

KCMommie
10-23-2011, 10:46 PM
Probably nothing, but while looking at the videos something that I found interesting were the pictures on the wall. In the living spaces I noticed "family" pictures and decoration (minimal), yet Lisa's room and the bedroom the walls are bare. I only caught one little angel in Lisa's room? Were they remodeling, or something more "psychological"?

Spotless houses + no real personalization = problems for me.
Spotless houses are always suspect of some disorder - IMVHO. (Silly as it may seem, it's never steered me wrong! )

Mountain_Kat
10-23-2011, 10:51 PM
Probably nothing, but while looking at the videos something that I found interesting were the pictures on the wall. In the living spaces I noticed "family" pictures and decoration (minimal), yet Lisa's room and the bedroom the walls are bare. I only caught one little angel in Lisa's room? Were they remodeling, or something more "psychological"?

Spotless houses + no real personalization = problems for me.
Spotless houses are always suspect of some disorder - IMVHO. (Silly as it may seem, it's never steered me wrong! )

Hubby and I practise the philosophy of simple living. There are no nic knacks or otherwise un-functional decor in our home. One-built in bookcase with family momento's and pics in the livingroom. That's it. I'm also an uber neat freak.

I assure you...Hubby and I are normal, responsible, well adjusted people. ;)

my_tee_mouse
10-23-2011, 10:58 PM
It is likely not the original box from that night. Joe the lawyer said his client is not an alcoholic, she likes to drink wine at night.

Yeah and my ex was "not" an alcoholic either because he "only" drank beer after 5:00 (every night after 5:00 until he fell into bed).

KCMommie
10-23-2011, 10:58 PM
Hubby and I practise the philosophy of simple living. There are no nic knacks or otherwise un-functional decor in our home. One-built in bookcase with family momento's and pics in the livingroom. That's it. I'm also an uber neat freak.

I assure you...Hubby and I are normal, responsible, well adjusted people. ;)

I'm sure you are! So are my elders! ;) My best friend keeps a spotless home, an exceptional friend, but she's OCD! She will tell you she uses cleaning to work through frustration.

I mean in suspicious situations such as these when one is investigating "family life". A 25 year old "kid" who can't seem to tell the truth. A history of poor decision making skill. Especially, her very immature selfish, attitude (No sign of remorse =Non-Healthy Narcissism?) not only about the "adult time", but in light of neglecting her responsibility of taking care of her children during this time; lack of involvement etc.. etc... Quite the indignant attitude.

Some believe that no decorating in certain areas of the home mean problems in the room that may represent. IMVHO

Nefriahaia
10-23-2011, 11:00 PM
It is likely not the original box from that night. Joe the lawyer said his client is not an alcoholic, she likes to drink wine at night.

I guess the definition of an alcoholic is if "alcohol makes one's life unmanageable".

treeseeker
10-23-2011, 11:05 PM
Did the atty show us both sides of the bed in the walk-through? I remember seeing the one side, near the door, but not the other - I guess that would be the closet side?

Tuffy
10-23-2011, 11:12 PM
Ok that picture on the left is hysterical. Where did you get that?:crazy:

Lol! I know right? Google images rocks! ETA - I should have said it was a pic from my back yard!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cuoco7
10-23-2011, 11:20 PM
It's at the end of the "mystery man" video here...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844

You have to let it load for a minute and the picture of Lisa at the door will skip to the video.

HTH

Thank you for linking, but I waited and my iPad, perhaps the issue, to load and it didn't. :banghead: I think that's why I miss alot of what you guys see.

Thank you though!

In da Middle
10-23-2011, 11:28 PM
Did the atty show us both sides of the bed in the walk-through? I remember seeing the one side, near the door, but not the other - I guess that would be the closet side?
I am not sure where I saw it if it was linked or local broadcast but it did show the entire floor in the room. Nothing was amiss except possibly some trim and closet doors that may or may not have been there before.

laurafairlie
10-23-2011, 11:37 PM
I'm sure you are! So are my elders! ;) My best friend keeps a spotless home, an exceptional friend, but she's OCD! She will tell you she uses cleaning to work through frustration.

I mean in suspicious situations such as these when one is investigating "family life". A 25 year old "kid" who can't seem to tell the truth. A history of poor decision making skill. Especially, her very immature selfish, attitude (No sign of remorse =Non-Healthy Narcissism?) not only about the "adult time", but in light of neglecting her responsibility of taking care of her children during this time; lack of involvement etc.. etc... Quite the indignant attitude.

Some believe that no decorating in certain areas of the home mean problems in the room that may represent. IMVHO

I see what you are saying, but I think sometimes there can be perfectly innocent reasons. I want to redecorate my son's room. There's not a ton of stuff up on the walls, just a mirror and a little canvas print that he adores, and his dressers are functional because they have to be and the room is small. I've wanted to take down the wallpaper/paint/redecorate since we moved in, but my husband is still in school and we just can't afford it. I mean, I guess we could if we did that instead of buying him books (he really enjoys books) or toys, or paying his preschool tuition, but we have to prioritize. It makes me sad to think that someone my judge my love for my little boy based on how I've decorated his room, because he is a very beloved child, though his walls may be sparse.

MamaK
10-23-2011, 11:46 PM
I'm sure you are! So are my elders! ;) My best friend keeps a spotless home, an exceptional friend, but she's OCD! She will tell you she uses cleaning to work through frustration.

I mean in suspicious situations such as these when one is investigating "family life". A 25 year old "kid" who can't seem to tell the truth. A history of poor decision making skill. Especially, her very immature selfish, attitude (No sign of remorse =Non-Healthy Narcissism?) not only about the "adult time", but in light of neglecting her responsibility of taking care of her children during this time; lack of involvement etc.. etc... Quite the indignant attitude.

Some believe that no decorating in certain areas of the home mean problems in the room that may represent. IMVHO

BBM LE could've taken some things off the walls? I'm not sure, just thought of that. :waitasec: Another thought, maybe she was waiting for when Lisa was older to really do up her room. We were kinda broke when I was pregnant with my first, so she didn't have very much on the walls.

laura.anne
10-24-2011, 12:06 AM
Probably nothing, but while looking at the videos something that I found interesting were the pictures on the wall. In the living spaces I noticed "family" pictures and decoration (minimal), yet Lisa's room and the bedroom the walls are bare. I only caught one little angel in Lisa's room? Were they remodeling, or something more "psychological"?

Spotless houses + no real personalization = problems for me.
Spotless houses are always suspect of some disorder - IMVHO. (Silly as it may seem, it's never steered me wrong! )

There are also framed baby foot/hand prints in Lisa's room. (via this video: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/lisa-irwin-inside-home-14695353)

not_my_kids
10-24-2011, 12:12 AM
Once again, although I do believe that something was and is wrong in the family, I can't take the lack of decoration to mean much. My older kids room has a picture of a wolf over my oldest son's bed (he says it makes him feel safe), nothing over my younger son's bed, as he prefers to stare out the window at night, and only a plaque with my daughter's name over her bed. there are a couple of Disney prints on the walls, but mainly we have worked more on letting them pick out their own things, and they prefer their favorite characters to be on their sheets and blankets as opposed to the walls. The baby is still in our room, and although he has his own corner of the bedroom, there is little on the walls, just a puppy picture on one wall and a few small cheap cutouts of xoo animals over his playpen.

Main reason being that we are broke. If the kids really wanted to spice up the walls, we would likely do that for them, but it just isn't their interest right now. Maybe when they are older. That may have been what they were waiting to do with Lisa. That way they wouldn't redo her room in pink polka dots, only to have her make a change at 2 or 3 and decide that she wants Barney or camo. Not going all out on the decorating doesn't make anyone a bad parent, and I don't find it to be a marker of that here. I do think that Lisa was loved, just maybe not as much as she should have been, or she was loved conditionally and after other things in one or both of the parents lives. JMO.

Mountain_Kat
10-24-2011, 12:12 AM
I'm sure you are! So are my elders! ;) My best friend keeps a spotless home, an exceptional friend, but she's OCD! She will tell you she uses cleaning to work through frustration.

I mean in suspicious situations such as these when one is investigating "family life". A 25 year old "kid" who can't seem to tell the truth. A history of poor decision making skill. Especially, her very immature selfish, attitude (No sign of remorse =Non-Healthy Narcissism?) not only about the "adult time", but in light of neglecting her responsibility of taking care of her children during this time; lack of involvement etc.. etc... Quite the indignant attitude.

Some believe that no decorating in certain areas of the home mean problems in the room that may represent. IMVHO

With respect to Lisa's room, certain camera angles can be decieving. There are framed foot print and handprint on the wall, which you often can't see in the cameras, 2 angel plaques, and something else on the wall, but I can't recall what it is specifically at the moment.

Someone here also commented awhile back about the total lack of toys in Lisa's room. Oh Noes!!! Turns out, most of her toys seem to be stored in the computer room, where she likely played.

I'm just trying to point out that, especially with moving cameras, it's hard to get a full idea of what is or isn't in a room.

JMO

marge_rita
10-24-2011, 12:13 AM
It is likely not the original box from that night. Joe the lawyer said his client is not an alcoholic, she likes to drink wine at night.

Joe needs to do some reading about alcoholics. Alcoholics don't only drink during the day. :banghead: Although I bet they do drink 5-10 glasses of wine at a time.

imo

not_my_kids
10-24-2011, 12:16 AM
On a different note, a practically spotless house, and the one things that is highly out of place and certainly not put in it's place is the wine box? No, Mr. Defense Attorney, your client is not an alcoholic...Alcoholics go to meetings Har, har, har. Sorry, but it strikes me very, very odd. Makes me wonder if maybe she really did make up the story about how much she had to drink that night. Sometimes it's about what you don't see, but sometimes, it's about what you do, and I think this case is one of the latter.

katydid23
10-24-2011, 12:28 AM
On a different note, a practically spotless house, and the one things that is highly out of place and certainly not put in it's place is the wine box? No, Mr. Defense Attorney, your client is not an alcoholic...Alcoholics go to meetings Har, har, har. Sorry, but it strikes me very, very odd. Makes me wonder if maybe she really did make up the story about how much she had to drink that night. Sometimes it's about what you don't see, but sometimes, it's about what you do, and I think this case is one of the latter.

I agree. My first instinct if I were her attorney would be to hide that big box-o-wine inside the oven. Interesting that they chose to highlight it by keeping it right out in the center of the shot.

Jaxson
10-24-2011, 12:29 AM
Shoot my kids didn't even have room until they were over a year old. I never had a nursery and I have five kids. I grew up with nothing on my walls until I was 11 or 12 and bought my own stuff. I didn't have very many things on my walls anywhere until recently. I spent my money on the kids, taking them camping and letting them do sports, swim lessons ect, not on the walls. I was lucky to be able to feed them and keep shoes on them and I know my parents were the same way. I only have one at home now and my hubby makes good money so I can splurge a little but I am still not a 'vogue' kinda girl.

Jaxson
10-24-2011, 12:31 AM
I agree. My first instinct if I were her attorney would be to hide that big box-o-wine inside the oven. Interesting that they chose to highlight it by keeping it right out in the center of the shot.


Not much point since we all saw her buy it and she admitted drinking it. Actually maybe they want it out if they are going for the drunk defense...jmo

al66pine
10-24-2011, 01:53 AM
---------------------------Is this a PLYWOOD FLOOR? If so, is that of evidentiary significance? ----------------------

from post by Mountain_Kat;7272188]
Yep, no door frame. And also no tack strip along the carpet edge to hold it down. Notice she's lifting it up and her hand is underneath the carpeting.
http://i.imgur.com/Zjyrz.jpg
================================================== ===

Did I miss discussn re PLYWOOD floor, or am I misinterp'ing photo?
If rm in pix w. carpet is parents' bedroom, then is person standing in hall?


Appears to me, in photo, floor where person is standing is PLYWOOD,
an underlayment, not a "finish flooring" like hardwood, or vinyl flooring w. woodgrain look, or other Pergo like flooring.

MOO, looks as if carpet was removed---
---by LE, tho it was said carpet was not listed in return of S/Wrrnt?
---or by JI, as remodel project before Baby Lisa disappeared? Or after?

Maybe someone else has better resolution of pix.

KCMommie
10-24-2011, 02:05 AM
With respect to Lisa's room, certain camera angles can be decieving. There are framed foot print and handprint on the wall, which you often can't see in the cameras, 2 angel plaques, and something else on the wall, but I can't recall what it is specifically at the moment.

Someone here also commented awhile back about the total lack of toys in Lisa's room. Oh Noes!!! Turns out, most of her toys seem to be stored in the computer room, where she likely played.

I'm just trying to point out that, especially with moving cameras, it's hard to get a full idea of what is or isn't in a room.

JMO


Yes, I did see those things. However, I don't see much of anything? It is very antiseptic. I actually had seen in the first footage a picture of baby Lisa on a shelf. It was one of the reasons I initially let down my guard to her story. She seemed dressed well in her pictures and healthy. Absolutely appeared to be doted over. Such great pictures too! I didn't see these on the walls at home... then I wondered who took them and where they were..Did Mom take these?

I also thought that things were tidy... but gut instinct, knowing what three boys can do to a home...especially when Mom has admitted to not watching them (or cannot account for 9-10 hours of her life) It is amazing this house is SO tidy. Not to mention; bare. Of course, there's been discussion of a history of dysfunctional family relationships in Bradley's past, apparently, Deborah lost her mother at an early age, amongst other things... So lack of role modeling comes into play too.

Young mothers don't often have the funds to load up on toys. However, young mothers than can afford to purchase wine (enough to have adult time 3-4 times a week) instead raise flags. Especially, on an electricians salary. (IF he's been working very long. Many in KC have been looking for work)

I just find it interesting so,

I had asked if they had been doing remodeling recently, or even just recently moved into this home. The home simply looks sterile. You are correct. It could very well be the "angle" of footage I'm seeing.

Refrigerator does not boast artwork. (can't really tell what is on it)
Bedroom is completely bare walls (not sure if something taken down for picture sharing etc.. or by LE)
Living areas have only small versions of pictures, yet they are in arrangements. (can't tell if they are personal or generic)

It's a bit to "picture perfect" without being picture perfect. ;) Not sure if I can explain this. Just observing.

Having absolutely no decoration in your bedroom is VERY strange to me. IMVHO.

KCMommie
10-24-2011, 02:09 AM
I agree. My first instinct if I were her attorney would be to hide that big box-o-wine inside the oven. Interesting that they chose to highlight it by keeping it right out in the center of the shot.

Why do that? It goes along with the "Mom is honest" story she's peddling! :idea:

;)

doubt
10-24-2011, 02:22 AM
It cost my grandson $40,000 in legal fees to get permanent custody of his daughter from the girl's mother, to whom he was never married.

She prolonged the whole affair--she could, because she had free representation from Legal Aid.

it took me 10 years and over 70,000 to get a divorce, though i agreed to waive many rights in an effort to get it over with. i thought that would end it. wrong. i now know that until every last one of my kids is 18, in spite of the fact that i have sole legal and physical custody, i will never be finished paying with both time and money for an ex who insists on using the court system as means of revenge.

personally, i have ZERO doubt that the number and complexity of filings that actually make it to court says little to nothing about the full story.

sorrell skye
10-24-2011, 02:29 AM
I agree. My first instinct if I were her attorney would be to hide that big box-o-wine inside the oven. Interesting that they chose to highlight it by keeping it right out in the center of the shot.

That box-o-wine certainly appears staged, does it not?

But then, there are several other things in this case that also appear staged, IMO, not the least of which is the computer room window screen, the lights, the unlocked front door...

MyBelle
10-24-2011, 02:37 AM
That box-o-wine certainly appears staged, does it not?

But then, there are several other things in this case that also appear staged, IMO, not the least of which is the computer room window screen, the lights, the unlocked front door...

Or they've incapable of comprehending that appearances do matter.

JMO

doubt
10-24-2011, 02:41 AM
i understand where it comes from, but just don't agree that the presence or lack of art/photos/decorative stuff on the walls or around a house says much about the people in it anymore. maybe in times past, but no more. we are a different kind of society.

these days, pictures are often on a memory stick and never printed at all. this is a matter of economics for some. who is to say those people don't often view those photos?

in my own home, i had some work done at one point and i kept meaning to rehang pics and the like, but before i knew it a year and a half had gone flying by and i had simply spent too much time actually raising my kids to worry about making sure i had an acceptable number of decorations hanging in their room.

we judge the wrong things in this country, far too often, seems to me. jmo...

RT51
10-24-2011, 02:51 AM
I live alone, my bedroom is upstairs. No one sees it. I moved in 2 1/2 years ago and have yet to put up anything on the bedroom walls. The pictures are stacked, ready to go but I haven't done it yet. I used to have alot of "stuff" but have started to get rid of it. Kind of morbid, but I'm getting older and don't want my kids to have to spend alot of time going through everything.

Plus, with kids, less is the best. Less to clean. As far as toys go, when mine were little, they were kept in the rooms we used the most i.e. living room, dining room, etc. They didn't want to play in their rooms as they wanted to be near us. When they got to be teenagers, that was a different story!

I guess I'm saying that if things are neat and sterile, that is much better then some other homes we have heard about. Which is the worse evil?

As far as the box being opened, I'm sure LE opened it to see how much wine was left.

dovebar
10-24-2011, 03:03 AM
Those are two really good observations.

We are also assuming that DB was the one who kept the house the way she wanted. We don't know if Jeremy insisted she do it that way, or if they just both liked a clean house, etc. I find myself allergic to people's houses where they have a dozen dried flower arrangements up on walls. The last rental I moved into, I had to take down or put away a dozen items of the landlord's because it was all just clutter to us.

sorrell skye
10-24-2011, 03:18 AM
Or they've incapable of comprehending that appearances do matter.

JMO

I have no doubt that one of their attorneys has informed them of the importance of appearances - hence, the "I was drunk, possibly blacked-out" story that was peddled during the week-end preceding the Grand Jury being presented with the media interview footage (interviews which contain the various timeline discrepancies and the various accounts of what happened when, etc).

partyuv5
10-24-2011, 03:42 AM
I can't even tell if it's a man. But I can tell that the shirt and pants are both white.

I thought the motorcycle rider said the man with the baby was wearing a white t-shirt and jeans. :waitasec:

I still can't get the video to work? Help

JeannieC
10-24-2011, 06:56 AM
THIS VIDEO IS REAL SLOW TO LOAD.............SO HOLD ON!

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-surveillance-footage-mystery-man/story?id=14795844

natsound
10-24-2011, 07:19 AM
Well if that's what it is, how on earth could LE have left it there? It appears to be something that might play into this case in a big way. :waitasec:

Definitely a photo op. That box of wine is front and center for the cameras, for a reason. LB's drunkenness is going to be a big part of the defense, if and when this goes to trial.

JeannieC
10-24-2011, 07:37 AM
Well, now I've heard it all. I guess it was the PI on camera. He said, "Human decomposition can be a toe nail." The dog could have smelled a toe nail.

Ok, people be sure to pick up your toe nails so if your spouse goes missing you don't go to jail because he flipped his toe nail on the floor.

:floorlaugh:

Rallihanna
10-24-2011, 07:42 AM
I'm pretty sure that the FBI dogs would come across more believable than LI's parents in a court of law.

Tuffy
10-24-2011, 07:47 AM
---------------------------Is this a PLYWOOD FLOOR? If so, is that of evidentiary significance? ----------------------

from post by Mountain_Kat;7272188]
Yep, no door frame. And also no tack strip along the carpet edge to hold it down. Notice she's lifting it up and her hand is underneath the carpeting.
http://i.imgur.com/Zjyrz.jpg
================================================== ===

Did I miss discussn re PLYWOOD floor, or am I misinterp'ing photo?
If rm in pix w. carpet is parents' bedroom, then is person standing in hall?


Appears to me, in photo, floor where person is standing is PLYWOOD,
an underlayment, not a "finish flooring" like hardwood, or vinyl flooring w. woodgrain look, or other Pergo like flooring.

MOO, looks as if carpet was removed---
---by LE, tho it was said carpet was not listed in return of S/Wrrnt?
---or by JI, as remodel project before Baby Lisa disappeared? Or after?

Maybe someone else has better resolution of pix.

I'll agree with you. That does look like plywood. It looks like they took off everything down to the subfloor. At first I thought it was just a hardwood floor, but it doesn't appear to have planks. It looks more like plywood.

There has been talk about them remodeling the house, but I don't know if that is documented or just speculation here. :waitasec:

KCMommie
10-24-2011, 08:04 AM
i understand where it comes from, but just don't agree that the presence or lack of art/photos/decorative stuff on the walls or around a house says much about the people in it anymore. maybe in times past, but no more. we are a different kind of society.

these days, pictures are often on a memory stick and never printed at all. this is a matter of economics for some. who is to say those people don't often view those photos?

in my own home, i had some work done at one point and i kept meaning to rehang pics and the like, but before i knew it a year and a half had gone flying by and i had simply spent too much time actually raising my kids to worry about making sure i had an acceptable number of decorations hanging in their room.

we judge the wrong things in this country, far too often, seems to me. jmo...

My comment is getting out of hand. I asked if they were remodeling because of the condition, and lack of decorating. I do feel it is strange to have 6 & 8 year olds and a toddler and be THAT neat. Especially, in a "caught off guard" state. It's pretty common knowledge in Social Services field (CPS) that household conditions - good and bad reflect quite a bit on conditions in the home -- conditions that at glance you may not see. It is included in training in spotting abnormalities. I wanted to pull some case studies/papers for you - it may be helpful to know; however, the net seems to be flooded with junk (I miss the old days when it was easier to navigate!) Heck, I think even Dr. Phil, or Oprah or someone had a show on people and depression. Lack of decorating was a sign of depression or unhappiness (or even disappointment) in the area of your life. A very obvious example is hoarding, or even why some people can't seem to keep a clean house -- perfectionism and feeling failure. They believe that if it can't be perfect, why bother. Etc...This was years ago. If I find something I will post.

No if your house is clean, or not. Decorated or not -- is not necessarily the point. :)

vlpate
10-24-2011, 08:08 AM
I'll agree with you. That does look like plywood. It looks like they took off everything down to the subfloor. At first I thought it was just a hardwood floor, but it doesn't appear to have planks. It looks more like plywood.

There has been talk about them remodeling the house, but I don't know if that is documented or just speculation here. :waitasec:

It could also be low grade faux wood vinyl. We used it a few years ago in our apartment communities. Carpeting in a bathroom is pretty uncommon, no?

I thought it was established that the carpeting came from the storage shed/garage?

my_tee_mouse
10-24-2011, 08:47 AM
I agree. My first instinct if I were her attorney would be to hide that big box-o-wine inside the oven. Interesting that they chose to highlight it by keeping it right out in the center of the shot.
OTOH, leaving it there emphasizes the fact that LE did not feel it important enough to confiscate.

natsound
10-24-2011, 08:49 AM
It could also be low grade faux wood vinyl. We used it a few years ago in our apartment communities. Carpeting in a bathroom is pretty uncommon, no?

I thought it was established that the carpeting came from the storage shed/garage?

Cynthia Short says the rolled-up carpet came from the shed. According to posters, the live cam during the big search showed CSI taking the carpet to the front of the house or the street, unrolling it, rolling it back up, and taking it back behind the house again.

Abby Normal
10-24-2011, 09:55 AM
My comment is getting out of hand. I asked if they were remodeling because of the condition, and lack of decorating. I do feel it is strange to have 6 & 8 year olds and a toddler and be THAT neat. Especially, in a "caught off guard" state. It's pretty common knowledge in Social Services field (CPS) that household conditions - good and bad reflect quite a bit on conditions in the home -- conditions that at glance you may not see. It is included in training in spotting abnormalities. I wanted to pull some case studies/papers for you - it may be helpful to know; however, the net seems to be flooded with junk (I miss the old days when it was easier to navigate!) Heck, I think even Dr. Phil, or Oprah or someone had a show on people and depression. Lack of decorating was a sign of depression or unhappiness (or even disappointment) in the area of your life. A very obvious example is hoarding, or even why some people can't seem to keep a clean house -- perfectionism and feeling failure. They believe that if it can't be perfect, why bother. Etc...This was years ago. If I find something I will post.

No if your house is clean, or not. Decorated or not -- is not necessarily the point. :)

This isn't directed at you- just in general... Am I the only one who doesn't think the house is THAT neat? It just seems regular every day level to me. And I'm far from being a neat freak. Just IMO when you have a lot of people in the house, esp kids, you gotta ask everyone to stay on top of their stuff or it too easily gets out of hand. I don't know, it just does not seem obsessively neat to me. You should all come to MIL's house for tea if you wanna see obsessive. :blushing:

Rooster27
10-24-2011, 09:57 AM
Cynthia Short says the rolled-up carpet came from the shed. According to posters, the live cam during the big search showed CSI taking the carpet to the front of the house or the street, unrolling it, rolling it back up, and taking it back behind the house again.

I think i may have seen this posted, but not sure which thread (there are so many that relate to each other!) but the carpet that was in the shed, looks like a pretty big remnant....if it was a remnant. What if DB and/or JI removed the carpet at night. and put another in its place. The carpet in the shed could have been the carpet in the bedroom. It looks like a pretty small bedroom, not sure the square footage. The cutting of the carpet could have played into the "clicking sounds" that the boys heard. A utility knife, or scissors being used. I had thought a mopping noise could be the clicking sound, since that's the sound my mops make (speaking of clean houses...mine, not so much) but anyway. Could explain the lack of a door floor threshold. I know there is another name for that. Sounds like a very intricate covering up scheme, but an electrician is not an unintelligent individual. The fact that they said next to the bed makes it more plausible that it was something on the floor and probably carpet. Otherwise they would have reported that the dogs hit on an item in the house. Although i am not ruling that out.

I don't buy that LE was doing some sort of show and tell with the carpet being removed and brought back. They purposefully blocked media and planes overhead. I think these people were just doing their jobs.

MOO

justamommy
10-24-2011, 09:57 AM
Probably nothing, but while looking at the videos something that I found interesting were the pictures on the wall. In the living spaces I noticed "family" pictures and decoration (minimal), yet Lisa's room and the bedroom the walls are bare. I only caught one little angel in Lisa's room? Were they remodeling, or something more "psychological"?

Spotless houses + no real personalization = problems for me.
Spotless houses are always suspect of some disorder - IMVHO. (Silly as it may seem, it's never steered me wrong! )

I saw pictures of hand-prints and foot-prints in Lisa's room on one of the videos. Sorry don't have a link, but it was one that the media did after one of the initial searches. Some people don't have decorating sense and some simply can't afford to decorate extensivley. IMO

justamommy
10-24-2011, 10:07 AM
I see what you are saying, but I think sometimes there can be perfectly innocent reasons. I want to redecorate my son's room. There's not a ton of stuff up on the walls, just a mirror and a little canvas print that he adores, and his dressers are functional because they have to be and the room is small. I've wanted to take down the wallpaper/paint/redecorate since we moved in, but my husband is still in school and we just can't afford it. I mean, I guess we could if we did that instead of buying him books (he really enjoys books) or toys, or paying his preschool tuition, but we have to prioritize. It makes me sad to think that someone my judge my love for my little boy based on how I've decorated his room, because he is a very beloved child, though his walls may be sparse.

I don't doubt your love for your child. We were in similar situation when our son was born. Husband was in the Navy and we were stationed in San Diego (very expensive) and just didn't have alot of money for decorating. His room was always clean and he was always cared for very well. He had one picture in his room which was a puzzle I put together and hung up for him. I think that this is a common situation for young families. :innocent:

Jaxson
10-24-2011, 10:12 AM
This isn't directed at you- just in general... Am I the only one who doesn't think the house is THAT neat? It just seems regular every day level to me. And I'm far from being a neat freak. Just IMO when you have a lot of people in the house, esp kids, you gotta ask everyone to stay on top of their stuff or it too easily gets out of hand. I don't know, it just does not seem obsessively neat to me. You should all come to MIL's house for tea if you wanna see obsessive. :blushing:

I agree with you Abby. It looks average to me and I am an admitted slob. I can't tell if it is dusty or spotless. It just looks tidy to me. My mom was very clean when I was growing up. Drank her beer out of her coffee cup while she cleaned. You could give her house the white glove treatment any time day or night and I am the oldest of five. I can't figure out how she did it. I gave up trying to keep my house clean long before I had all five kids but the wind blows here and I live in the country so you can't keep the dust out.

butwhatif?
10-24-2011, 10:23 AM
I think i may have seen this posted, but not sure which thread (there are so many that relate to each other!) but the carpet that was in the shed, looks like a pretty big remnant....if it was a remnant. What if DB and/or JI removed the carpet at night. and put another in its place. The carpet in the shed could have been the carpet in the bedroom. It looks like a pretty small bedroom, not sure the square footage. The cutting of the carpet could have played into the "clicking sounds" that the boys heard. A utility knife, or scissors being used. I had thought a mopping noise could be the clicking sound, since that's the sound my mops make (speaking of clean houses...mine, not so much) but anyway. Could explain the lack of a door floor threshold. I know there is another name for that. Sounds like a very intricate covering up scheme, but an electrician is not an unintelligent individual. The fact that they said next to the bed makes it more plausible that it was something on the floor and probably carpet. Otherwise they would have reported that the dogs hit on an item in the house. Although i am not ruling that out.

I don't buy that LE was doing some sort of show and tell with the carpet being removed and brought back. They purposefully blocked media and planes overhead. I think these people were just doing their jobs.

MOO

Great theory, but wouldn't it be listed in the SW?
Any legal eagles around? Is it at all possible that they managed to seal part of the warrant?

ETA: Could the FBI have a separate SW and inventory of their own that we don't know about?

jjenny
10-24-2011, 10:32 AM
Hmmmm...

http://i.imgur.com/veVji.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/GJnmW.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/L0bJQ.jpg

Yes, the wine was franzia.It's very clear on this video.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/45014011#45014011

Rooster27
10-24-2011, 10:35 AM
Great theory, but wouldn't it be listed in the SW?
Any legal eagles around? Is it at all possible that they managed to seal part of the warrant?

I wish i knew the answer to that. I just saw posted on another thread(gosh there are so many for this one) that they may not have needed to take it. Now i have to find it, and i have to go to work but this poster was saying that in another prominent case where there was trace evidence, ( i apologize if this is incorrect terminology,) they didn't remove the carpet. So that led me to my theory, but that could be wrong information. Just odd, the unfinished carpet, the statement about the dog or dogs hitting on the area by the bed, and the moving of a very large piece of carpet on the search day.

MOO

imawitch
10-24-2011, 11:09 AM
Well, now I've heard it all. I guess it was the PI on camera. He said, "Human decomposition can be a toe nail." The dog could have smelled a toe nail.

Ok, people be sure to pick up your toe nails so if your spouse goes missing you don't go to jail because he flipped his toe nail on the floor.

:floorlaugh:

well heck, good thing I have leanred this about the toe nail, as I was in the down stairs bathroom, and noticed a toe nail clipping on the bath rug..I picked it up and put it in the trash,,ewwwwwwwwwwww...had to be my husband...no doubt about it..

eta, I just wanted to thank everyone for keeping me in the loop, I have been away for the weekend and just now catching up..

Mountain_Kat
10-24-2011, 11:34 AM
OTOH, leaving it there emphasizes the fact that LE did not feel it important enough to confiscate.

Not really sure why LE would feel the need to confiscate it. DB admits to being drunk. No need to have an empty box of wine to show jurors to back up the mother's claim that she was drunk. :waitasec:

BD1
10-24-2011, 11:41 AM
That box-o-wine certainly appears staged, does it not?

But then, there are several other things in this case that also appear staged, IMO, not the least of which is the computer room window screen, the lights, the unlocked front door...

I agree. I think the Dad picking up a nightshift, the mom buying wine and 'drinking' enough to possibly 'blackout', the cell phones...hell, I wouldn't even be surprised if she got the neighbor drunk while she pretended to get drunk so when the neighbor went home she wouldn't hear anything! I wouldn't doubt it if someone helping her walked around the neighborhood with a naked baby doll to cast suspicion.

Mountain_Kat
10-24-2011, 12:22 PM
A better, more detailed view of house.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/45014011#45014011

Mountain_Kat
10-24-2011, 12:27 PM
So, Jeremy left his bedroom and walked right past Lisa's open bedroom door (with light on, according to one People mag article) to check on the boys first?

Peliman
10-24-2011, 01:09 PM
Getting ready for work here, has the whole search warrant been released yet? What 6 pages maybe?

Niner
10-24-2011, 03:01 PM
It was a pink baby bathtub, IIRC. Sitting inside the crib, although LE may have put it there during the search. I have never seen a baby bath with a restraint strap, however, that doesn't mean they don't make them. I didn't look to see if the one in the pictures had a belt or not.

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=lisa+irwin+inside+home&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=677&tbm=isch&tbnid=K051hsT1PBenKM:&imgrefurl=http://www.bettertheworld.org/2011/10/watch-inside-baby-lisas-home/&docid=SxR8NxqNnyWziM&imgurl=http://www.bettertheworld.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/a98619e1s_111007_mn-150x150.jpg&w=150&h=150&ei=2hKiToeSPLODsAK1w9SyBQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=505&vpy=274&dur=11&hovh=120&hovw=120&tx=64&ty=65&sig=116676958254053035055&page=2&tbnh=120&tbnw=120&start=12&ndsp=14&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:12
Pic of bathtub in crib.

okay, I'm WAAAAY behind here - but if not asked yet... that mattress in this picture sure looks high - if Lisa could stand - it looks like her waist would be even with the crib's top rail, or even higher - thinking she could just flip over and land on the floor. Is that carpet in this room, or hardwood floor - can't tell from this picture!

For some reason - still... :fence:

strach304
10-24-2011, 03:21 PM
This isn't directed at you- just in general... Am I the only one who doesn't think the house is THAT neat? It just seems regular every day level to me. And I'm far from being a neat freak. Just IMO when you have a lot of people in the house, esp kids, you gotta ask everyone to stay on top of their stuff or it too easily gets out of hand. I don't know, it just does not seem obsessively neat to me. You should all come to MIL's house for tea if you wanna see obsessive. :blushing:

I agree. I always kept up with my house when my children were small and making messes, leaving toys out, etc. After dinner dishes were done, after children went to bed toys picked up and put away etc. Of course I worked and kept a routine. However at one time I was criticized by a relative for my choice in decorating colors that were said to be depressing. Maroon and dark green. Doesn't mean much to me.

Niner
10-24-2011, 03:28 PM
I think DB put her to 'bed' in her own bed. IMO

Jumping off your post... plus what Scandi (:seeya:) said about falling into bed drunk. I read an article that said DB "fell" into bed, in a drunken stupor. Just that word "fell" - got me to thinking she actually fell on Lisa and didn't notice - suffocating her. DB IS a 'big' lady - and maybe Lisa fell off the bed. And I don't believe we know the 'exact' spot in the bedroom by the bed the decomp scent was - do we?? TIA!

strach304
10-24-2011, 03:32 PM
okay, I'm WAAAAY behind here - but if not asked yet... that mattress in this picture sure looks high - if Lisa could stand - it looks like her waist would be even with the crib's top rail, or even higher - thinking she could just flip over and land on the floor. Is that carpet in this room, or hardwood floor - can't tell from this picture!

For some reason - still... :fence:


The mattress looks like it's as far down as it will go to me. The bumper might make it appear to be higher.

twzzlrgirl
10-24-2011, 03:37 PM
Can I ask a stupid question: I know that DB has said she thinks she will be arrested for this crime, but has she been named a suspect or a POI?

Niner
10-24-2011, 05:13 PM
okay - only 20 pages behind now... but got a Google alert -

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/24/new-video-may-support-claim-by-parents-that-missouri-baby-lisa-irwin-was/


Surveillance footage from a gas station near the Kansas City home where baby Lisa Irwin disappeared shows a man exiting a wooded area shortly before the baby was reported missing.

The video, first reported by ABC News, shows a man dressed in white leaving the leafy area at 2:30 a.m. local time the night the baby was last seen.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/24/new-video-may-support-claim-by-parents-that-missouri-baby-lisa-irwin-was/#ixzz1bjh9YhGu

sorry if this has been posted already... :seeya:

doubt
10-24-2011, 08:09 PM
My comment is getting out of hand. I asked if they were remodeling because of the condition, and lack of decorating. I do feel it is strange to have 6 & 8 year olds and a toddler and be THAT neat. Especially, in a "caught off guard" state. It's pretty common knowledge in Social Services field (CPS) that household conditions - good and bad reflect quite a bit on conditions in the home -- conditions that at glance you may not see. It is included in training in spotting abnormalities. I wanted to pull some case studies/papers for you - it may be helpful to know; however, the net seems to be flooded with junk (I miss the old days when it was easier to navigate!) Heck, I think even Dr. Phil, or Oprah or someone had a show on people and depression. Lack of decorating was a sign of depression or unhappiness (or even disappointment) in the area of your life. A very obvious example is hoarding, or even why some people can't seem to keep a clean house -- perfectionism and feeling failure. They believe that if it can't be perfect, why bother. Etc...This was years ago. If I find something I will post.

No if your house is clean, or not. Decorated or not -- is not necessarily the point. :)

i was not responding to a post by you so am not sure why my comments seemed to bother you. that said, i hold an msw and and am well familiar with the concepts you mentioned. the fact remains that results of those studies are not relevant or reliable if they are based on the norms practiced by a society 50 years ago.

in other words, when it comes to making judgment calls regarding the psychological state of the residents in any environment....the way said environment appears to another is about as unreliable a means as one can find. in fact, it can actually say more about the person doing the observing than the it does abot the person whose environment is being observed, if that makes sense. :-)

Tuffy
10-24-2011, 08:43 PM
It could also be low grade faux wood vinyl. We used it a few years ago in our apartment communities. Carpeting in a bathroom is pretty uncommon, no?

I thought it was established that the carpeting came from the storage shed/garage?

The carpeting that the police looked at was from the garage. They looked at it, then put it back.

KCMommie
10-24-2011, 09:10 PM
i was not responding to a post by you so am not sure why my comments seemed to bother you. that said, i hold an msw and and am well familiar with the concepts you mentioned. the fact remains that results of those studies are not relevant or reliable if they are based on the norms practiced by a society 50 years ago.

in other words, when it comes to making judgment calls regarding the psychological state of the residents in any environment....the way said environment appears to another is about as unreliable a means as one can find. in fact, it can actually say more about the person doing the observing than the it does abot the person whose environment is being observed, if that makes sense. :-)

No. You don't bother me! :)

plaidmom
10-24-2011, 09:20 PM
Can I ask a stupid question: I know that DB has said she thinks she will be arrested for this crime, but has she been named a suspect or a POI?

Perhaps this should be posted in the Question/Answer thread?

Gooood question. Waiting to hear the answer as well. :)

KCMommie
10-24-2011, 09:23 PM
Perhaps this should be posted in the Question/Answer thread?

Gooood question. Waiting to hear the answer as well. :)

Formally KCPD have stated "they currently have no suspects"

jjenny
10-24-2011, 09:23 PM
Can I ask a stupid question: I know that DB has said she thinks she will be arrested for this crime, but has she been named a suspect or a POI?

No. No one has been named a suspect or a POI by LE.

plaidmom
10-24-2011, 09:27 PM
i understand where it comes from, but just don't agree that the presence or lack of art/photos/decorative stuff on the walls or around a house says much about the people in it anymore. maybe in times past, but no more. we are a different kind of society.

these days, pictures are often on a memory stick and never printed at all. this is a matter of economics for some. who is to say those people don't often view those photos?

in my own home, i had some work done at one point and i kept meaning to rehang pics and the like, but before i knew it a year and a half had gone flying by and i had simply spent too much time actually raising my kids to worry about making sure i had an acceptable number of decorations hanging in their room.

we judge the wrong things in this country, far too often, seems to me. jmo...

IIRC Lisa's room is "paneled" . That stuff is the bane of decorators world-wide. EVERY nail hole is permanent, so most people don't hang much on paneled walls.

I live in an old house with plaster walls and much the same situation.

Less is better.

When I want art (and I have been a gallery director, so I have quite a collection) I just "lean" it against the walls.


IMHO most Americans "over decorate" anyhow. Sorry. :innocent:

Marple
10-24-2011, 09:42 PM
okay - only 20 pages behind now... but got a Google alert -

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/24/new-video-may-support-claim-by-parents-that-missouri-baby-lisa-irwin-was/


Surveillance footage from a gas station near the Kansas City home where baby Lisa Irwin disappeared shows a man exiting a wooded area shortly before the baby was reported missing.

The video, first reported by ABC News, shows a man dressed in white leaving the leafy area at 2:30 a.m. local time the night the baby was last seen.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/24/new-video-may-support-claim-by-parents-that-missouri-baby-lisa-irwin-was/#ixzz1bjh9YhGu

sorry if this has been posted already... :seeya:

Is it a "wooded area" or a "leafy area"? Some of the locals are saying this area is not a wooded area, it's more like a brushy lot.

I know that as an Orlando area resident, it was hard for some people to understand that the dense foliage where little Caylee was found is basically very common around here and is often just a few feet of palmetto and brush. It's not a huge forest area. :)

In da Middle
10-25-2011, 12:09 AM
Is it a "wooded area" or a "leafy area"? Some of the locals are saying this area is not a wooded area, it's more like a brushy lot.

I know that as an Orlando area resident, it was hard for some people to understand that the dense foliage where little Caylee was found is basically very common around here and is often just a few feet of palmetto and brush. It's not a huge forest area. :)
Its an empty lot with trees growing on it. Not wooded. The real wooded areas here are very dense like the wooded areas they have searched. The lot is not that thick at all.

Kat
10-25-2011, 12:36 AM
IIRC Lisa's room is "paneled" . That stuff is the bane of decorators world-wide. EVERY nail hole is permanent, so most people don't hang much on paneled walls.

I live in an old house with plaster walls and much the same situation.

Less is better.

When I want art (and I have been a gallery director, so I have quite a collection) I just "lean" it against the walls.


IMHO most Americans "over decorate" anyhow. Sorry. :innocent:

I don't remember Lisa's room being paneled, IIRC they look like standard drywall. In fact she has angel plaques hanging over her crib IIRC. I remember the computer room is paneled?

KCMommie
10-25-2011, 12:58 AM
I don't remember Lisa's room being paneled, IIRC they look like standard drywall. In fact she has angel plaques hanging over her crib IIRC. I remember the computer room is paneled?

I actually caught better footage of the inside of the home and it is quite a bit more decorated and "lived in" than what I had seen before. I didn't see panels either, but still wondering why all the closet doors are missing, hallway carpet appears to be missing, and door frame/trim missing. I never did get an answer on if they were remodeling or these construction issues happened after the incident? :confused:

my_tee_mouse
10-25-2011, 01:03 AM
Not really sure why LE would feel the need to confiscate it. DB admits to being drunk. No need to have an empty box of wine to show jurors to back up the mother's claim that she was drunk. :waitasec:

How do we know it was empty? It might have been 3/4 full for all we know, and a prosecutor could use that information to counteract her claims of being drunk and "maybe" blacking out. I would think LE would want to have their hands on anything and everything that might someday be of any consequence in the prosecution of a case.

marge_rita
10-25-2011, 01:20 AM
okay - only 20 pages behind now... but got a Google alert -

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/24/new-video-may-support-claim-by-parents-that-missouri-baby-lisa-irwin-was/


Surveillance footage from a gas station near the Kansas City home where baby Lisa Irwin disappeared shows a man exiting a wooded area shortly before the baby was reported missing.

The video, first reported by ABC News, shows a man dressed in white leaving the leafy area at 2:30 a.m. local time the night the baby was last seen.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/10/24/new-video-may-support-claim-by-parents-that-missouri-baby-lisa-irwin-was/#ixzz1bjh9YhGu

sorry if this has been posted already... :seeya:

Since this is an ahem- cough -exclusive video by ABC, did they ABC alert LE ?Has a search by LE and the FBI been conducted on said wooded area yet?

imo

yllek
10-25-2011, 01:30 AM
Perhaps this should be posted in the Question/Answer thread?

Gooood question. Waiting to hear the answer as well. :)

No POIs or Suspects have been announced by LE.

Jeremy's sister Ashley Irwin announced that Debbi was preparing to be arrested because, according to Ms. Irwin, LE tries to pin things on people when they don't have any leads (she later retracted her statement). Captain Steve Young responded to Ms. Irwin's statement saying it was a "stretch". And, IIRC, Debbi did say in one of her interviews that she was afraid of being arrested.

To date, no one in LE has said anything about arresting anyone in this case. LE has only said that the parents are "not fully cooperating" (this is after changes in the parents' stories, Debbi's announcement that she failed a poly, and the parents not consenting to further questioning at the station - prior to that, LE acknowledged often publicly that the parents were cooperating).