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dog.gone.cute
10-22-2011, 08:33 AM
Good Morning !

I started a thread for this weekend's coverage October 22-23, 2011.

GMA on now ... will post link when available.

May today be the day Baby Lisa is found !

:praying:

Wishbone
10-22-2011, 08:46 AM
Judge Jeanine Pirro Is Live in Kansas City, Missouri With the Latest on Baby Lisa Irwin


The search for Baby Lisa continues and Judge Jeanine Pirro is live at the crime scene with insight, analysis and the latest in the investigation.

Plus, body language expert Tonya Reiman looks at Baby Lisa’s parents and reveals what they aren’t telling.

Catch a must-see Justice with Judge Jeanine, tonight at 9p ET.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/10/22/judge-jeanine-pirro-is-live-in-kansas-city-missouri-with-the-latest-on-baby-lisa-irwin/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FoxNewsInsider+%28Fox+News+In sider%29

dog.gone.cute
10-22-2011, 09:11 AM
The Today Show :

Covering what happened yesterday with HRD dogs ...

Re-showing the video of DB being asked about being "drunk" that night ...


Bill Stanton on now ...

Rallihanna
10-22-2011, 10:08 AM
I hope they can do another search... I'm thinking they need to go back to the landfill unfortunately :(

curiousc
10-22-2011, 10:38 AM
http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2011/10/06/news/doc4e8d126a97a3c717320879.txt
Cop Shop: Relatives pray for missing Missouri girl

Found this a tiny bit interesting:


The heart-breaking ordeal involving a missing 10-month-old Kansas City, Mo., girl is weighing especially heavy on the minds of relatives here in Delaware County.

Deborah Netz Bradley, the mother of baby Lisa, is a second cousin to Donna Pretti, an investigator for the Delaware County Medical Examiner’s office, and Eddystone Patrolman Joseph Pretti. Donna and Joe are first cousins.

ela_ss teacher
10-22-2011, 11:31 AM
Good article. Lots of info/clarification


—The parents had told police that three cell phones were missing. The affidavit said a phone had since been found in a desk drawer, but that phone wasn’t one of those reported missing. The missing phones haven’t been found.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/police-cadaver-dog-reacts-to-scent-of-dead-person-at-missing-kc-babys-home-soil-disturbed/2011/10/22/gIQA30xd5L_story.html

dog.gone.cute
10-22-2011, 11:34 AM
Link for video from the Today Show -- Saturday 10-22-11


http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44997964#44997964


Bill Stanton was interviewed ... the "usual spin" by BS ...

Questioning the HRD dogs ... look at the "facts" ... look at the "sightings" ... BS is spinning as usual ...

MOO ...

mysteriew
10-22-2011, 11:37 AM
http://www.delcotimes.com/articles/2011/10/06/news/doc4e8d126a97a3c717320879.txt
Cop Shop: Relatives pray for missing Missouri girl

Found this a tiny bit interesting:

Very interesting. I noticed there were no direct quotes from that part of the extended family. Only a mention that they are related. The article was written 10-6 so very soon after the disappearance. I do find it odd that the relatives don't have anything to say.

matou
10-22-2011, 11:42 AM
The lawyer tries to explain the cadaver dog hit:


Joe Tacopina, a New York lawyer hired by a benefactor he has not identified to represent Bradley and Irwin, said the dog could have detected “a dirty diaper or 10 other non-human-remains items.”

But granting that cadaver dogs are trained chiefly to detect decomposing flesh, “There’s really no scenario where this baby, God forbid she was dead, would have decomposed in that short a period of time,” Tacopina told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Friday night.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/police-cadaver-dog-reacts-to-scent-of-dead-person-at-missing-kc-babys-home-soil-disturbed/2011/10/22/gIQA30xd5L_story.html

I'm sure our experts on here could argue that.

Donjeta
10-22-2011, 11:49 AM
Bill Stanton says the questions he has include, "is the dog trained" :rolleyes:

What do you reckon are the chances that FBI took an untrained dog there and just called it a "cadaver dog"?

Insomnia Momma
10-22-2011, 11:51 AM
The lawyer tries to explain the cadaver dog hit:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/police-cadaver-dog-reacts-to-scent-of-dead-person-at-missing-kc-babys-home-soil-disturbed/2011/10/22/gIQA30xd5L_story.html

I'm sure our experts on here could argue that.

What a joke! Typical media spin or completely clueless? I'm betting spin :innocent:

Insomnia Momma
10-22-2011, 11:53 AM
Bill Stanton says the questions he has include, "is the dog trained" :rolleyes:

What do you reckon are the chances that FBI took an untrained dog there and just called it a "cadaver dog"?

Oh sure, the FBI regularly brings in untrained dogs to investigations! You know, I thought of offering them my mutt from the pound... What a joke! :rolleyes:

ETA: I guess we can see which way the benefactor wants to go in prolonging the story. So much for just finding the "truth" whichever way that will take him, huh?

stilettos
10-22-2011, 11:56 AM
Bill Stanton says the questions he has include, "is the dog trained" :rolleyes:

What do you reckon are the chances that FBI took an untrained dog there and just called it a "cadaver dog"?

Nothing personal...but does Bill think all of America including the FBI are moronic imbeciles? Come on Bill...you gotta come up with something better than that.

JeannaT
10-22-2011, 11:57 AM
Bill Stanton says the questions he has include, "is the dog trained" :rolleyes:

What do you reckon are the chances that FBI took an untrained dog there and just called it a "cadaver dog"?

I'm sure he didn't mean they just grabbed some dog out of the pound and paraded it through the house, but rather, what type of training the dog had and how skilled the dog is. What history the dog has of being right almost all the time. (Again, in any study I've read in the last years, the dogs can be right ALMOST all the time, with 94% apparently being a very good score, indicating a very skilled dog. These are dogs who hit on known decomp sites, i couldn't find a study for dogs who falsely hit on sites known not to be contaminated. Which would have been more interesting here.)

I think the dogs they used to search for Jessica Lunsford were probably highly trained, but they couldn't track her, nor could the dogs tracking Laci Peterson hit on places where she was known to have been recently. Dogs couldn't track little Skylar (i forget last name, wandered off in the middle of the night from the tent).

I'm just curious. Did more than one dog hit, for example?

JeannaT
10-22-2011, 12:00 PM
Nothing personal...but does Bill think all of America including the FBI are moronic imbeciles? Come on Bill...you gotta come up with something better than that.

Bill has probably seen and followed lots of cases where the dogs failed to detect trails or decomp. Anyone who follows these cases has seen cases of unbelievable skill, and baffling cases where it's not clear why the dogs couldn't sniff out the evidence.

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 12:02 PM
<snipped by me>

“There’s really no scenario where this baby, God forbid she was dead, would have decomposed in that short a period of time,” Tacopina told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Friday night.

Interesting, because from everything I've read, chemical changes begin to occur in the body the moment the heart stops beating. But setting that aside...I'd sure like to know what Tacopina knows, that we don't know, that indicates to him that this was a "short period of time". Is 6 hours a short period of time, in his opinion? Assuming, of course, that the neighbor did see Lisa alive?

tehcloser
10-22-2011, 12:05 PM
Bill Stanton says the questions he has include, "is the dog trained" :rolleyes:

What do you reckon are the chances that FBI took an untrained dog there and just called it a "cadaver dog"?


Odd, teh says the questions she has include "is BS trained".

BetteDavisEyes
10-22-2011, 12:05 PM
There hasn't been an arrest yet or charges filed in the disappearance of Baby Lisa, but JT and BS are he!!-bent on "defending" their clients: Attack the investigation, accuse LE of shoddy police work and untrained search dogs, yada...yada...yada. Oh, and have your client admit that she was drinking to the point of (possibly) blacking out. No body, no case. Horse hash, all of it. Someone get me a barf bag, please :sick:

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 12:07 PM
Also..."cadaver" does not = "rotting corpse", Joe. I may be an "untrained FBI cadaver dog", but even I can tell you that much.

Signed, Mountain Kat's black lab.

curiositycat
10-22-2011, 12:07 PM
I look at it this way, she failed the polygraph. According to Megyn Kelly on Fox, she followed up on that with LE and was told not only did she fail, but she "failed miserably."

Now we have a hit in her bedroom by a cadaver dog.

MOO the writing is on the wall here.

It reminds me of the old saying, "For those who believe no proof is necessary, for those who don't believe no proof is enough."

They can keep spinning, but I have not heard one bit of proof that BS or anyone else has that can convince me that these parents are NOT responsible for the death of Baby Lisa.


JMOO

JeannaT
10-22-2011, 12:08 PM
There hasn't been an arrest yet or charges filed in the disappearance of Baby Lisa, but JT and BS are he!!-bent on "defending" their clients: Attack the investigation, accuse LE of shoddy police work and untrained search dogs, yada...yada...yada. Oh, and have your client admit that she was drinking to the point of (possibly) blacking out. No body, no case. Horse hash, all of it. Someone get me a barf bag, please :sick:

Bill Stanton has stated very clearly that he's not there for the purpose of defending Lisa's parents, rather, to help out finding Lisa.

If that help includes stating when the public perceptions of the case are going off in the wrong direction, he's there to state it.

JT and Cindy Short are advocates for the Lisa's parents. Bill Stanton is there to ferret out the truth in what happened to Baby Lisa, which ever direction that takes.

JeannaT
10-22-2011, 12:10 PM
I look at it this way, she failed the polygraph. According to Megyn Kelly on Fox, she followed up on that with LE and was told not only did she fail, but she "failed miserably."

Now we have a hit in her bedroom by a cadaver dog.

MOO the writing is on the wall here.

It reminds me of the old saying, "For those who believe no proof is necessary, for those who don't believe no proof is enough."

They can keep spinning, but I have not heard one bit of proof that BS or anyone else has that can convince me that these parents are NOT responsible for the death of Baby Lisa.


JMOO

LE has refused to comment on the poly results. It's only Deborah herself, who says what they told her.

I've certainly seen cops do that. We all have seen it. They say we have evidence, your friend ratted you out, you failed your poly, etc. It's legal, it's common. It's a tactic to try to break a witness if they're lying. She didn't break, though.

I'm not sure at all that she failed the poly and LE isn't saying.

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 12:15 PM
Whether DB failed the poly or not (and we don't know whether she did or didn't), she sure rushed herself to the nearest reporte in order to get out in front of the story that she did fail it.

JMO

2goldfish
10-22-2011, 12:16 PM
The lawyer tries to explain the cadaver dog hit:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/police-cadaver-dog-reacts-to-scent-of-dead-person-at-missing-kc-babys-home-soil-disturbed/2011/10/22/gIQA30xd5L_story.html

I'm sure our experts on here could argue that.


that was a tricksy statement. the way she stated it implies to someone who is ignorant of decompositional events that dogs can only hit in advanced stages which is not true at all. why the need for feeling tricksy?

speaking of decomp events, when I heard some carpeting was taken up, possibly where the dog(s) hit, I wondered if the illustrious dr arpad vass may be called upon in this case.

curiositycat
10-22-2011, 12:18 PM
LE has refused to comment on the poly results. It's only Deborah herself, who says what they told her.

I've certainly seen cops do that. We all have seen it. They say we have evidence, your friend ratted you out, you failed your poly, etc. It's legal, it's common. It's a tactic to try to break a witness if they're lying. She didn't break, though.

I'm not sure at all that she failed the poly and LE isn't saying.

So you are saying you don't believe MK when she stated to DB that LE told her she "failed miserably."

Do you think LE lied about it? Why would they risk doing something like lying about a ld test?

nursebeeme
10-22-2011, 12:18 PM
<snipped by me>

“There’s really no scenario where this baby, God forbid she was dead, would have decomposed in that short a period of time,” Tacopina told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Friday night.

Interesting, because from everything I've read, chemical changes begin to occur in the body the moment the heart stops beating. But setting that aside...I'd sure like to know what Tacopina knows, that we don't know, that indicates to him that this was a "short period of time". Is 6 hours a short period of time, in his opinion? Assuming, of course, that the neighbor did see Lisa alive?

he is in damage control mode:twocents:

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 12:20 PM
So you are saying you don't believe MK when she stated to DB that LE told her she "failed miserably."

Do you think LE lied about it? Why would they risk doing something like lying about a ld test?

Oh snap! I forgot about that! :doh:

2goldfish
10-22-2011, 12:20 PM
LE has refused to comment on the poly results. It's only Deborah herself, who says what they told her.

I've certainly seen cops do that. We all have seen it. They say we have evidence, your friend ratted you out, you failed your poly, etc. It's legal, it's common. It's a tactic to try to break a witness if they're lying. She didn't break, though.

I'm not sure at all that she failed the poly and LE isn't saying.


my bold

http://www.antipolygraph.org/


that is how polygraphs work. this is why I discount them in ALL cases.


(I am not at all affilated with the site in any way, I am just simply flabbergasted that LE uses such tricks although it can work to tell a guilty person they failed, adds some pressure to confess I guess...but this is no good if you "fail" and are wholly innocent so never ever take one!)

2goldfish
10-22-2011, 12:21 PM
So you are saying you don't believe MK when she stated to DB that LE told her she "failed miserably."

Do you think LE lied about it? Why would they risk doing something like lying about a ld test?


because that is how the test works!

pinkfly
10-22-2011, 12:23 PM
So how soon can a cadaver dog make a hit?

I always thought it was around an hour after death but have no idea where I heard it. I had a friend use her dogs during an earthquake so maybe from her.

curiositycat
10-22-2011, 12:23 PM
because that is how the test works!
Respectfully, I disagree.

AngelWings444
10-22-2011, 12:25 PM
So you are saying you don't believe MK when she stated to DB that LE told her she "failed miserably."

Do you think LE lied about it? Why would they risk doing something like lying about a ld test?
I don't believe LE told MK or any other media person a thing about the polygraph test. I'm thinking MK misspoke. I'm not so sure they told DB she failed, because DB is the one who made this statement. She probably did fail, but until LE states this as fact, I'm not buying anything from DB.

LE has kept their mouths shut in this case for good reason. They want to find out the truth. JMO

Donjeta
10-22-2011, 12:25 PM
Bill Stanton has stated very clearly that he's not there for the purpose of defending Lisa's parents, rather, to help out finding Lisa.

If that help includes stating when the public perceptions of the case are going off in the wrong direction, he's there to state it.

JT and Cindy Short are advocates for the Lisa's parents. Bill Stanton is there to ferret out the truth in what happened to Baby Lisa, which ever direction that takes.

Yes, that's what he says... but so far I'm seeing him doing more PR for the parents than truth ferreting.

Tuffy
10-22-2011, 12:26 PM
<snipped by me>

“There’s really no scenario where this baby, God forbid she was dead, would have decomposed in that short a period of time,” Tacopina told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Friday night.

Interesting, because from everything I've read, chemical changes begin to occur in the body the moment the heart stops beating. But setting that aside...I'd sure like to know what Tacopina knows, that we don't know, that indicates to him that this was a "short period of time". Is 6 hours a short period of time, in his opinion? Assuming, of course, that the neighbor did see Lisa alive?

Also, interesting that the family's attorney wants us to not believe the dog's findings. If mom's story is to be believed, she was passed-out-drunk, and didn't hear anything. How would she be so certain that Lisa was alive when she was removed from the home by the "intruder?"

Would it not be possible for the "intruder" to have also killed Lisa before removing her from the home? Did the "intruder" also turn on the lights, and put Lisa on the floor briefly before leaving? Mom supposedly doesn't know what happened after she fell asleep, until the time she was awakened by her boyfriend. How would she be able to dispute the findings of the FBI now?

btw- I put intruder in quotes because, IMO, there was no intruder.

mysteriew
10-22-2011, 12:26 PM
Bill Stanton has stated very clearly that he's not there for the purpose of defending Lisa's parents, rather, to help out finding Lisa.

If that help includes stating when the public perceptions of the case are going off in the wrong direction, he's there to state it.

JT and Cindy Short are advocates for the Lisa's parents. Bill Stanton is there to ferret out the truth in what happened to Baby Lisa, which ever direction that takes.

BS also said he was there to work with LE. Do you see any evidence that is happening?

You would think if he was any kind of a trustworthy professional, that before he got on national TV and made that announcement that he would have first checked with LE and arranged that.

BS is just what his name stands for.

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 12:27 PM
he is in damage control mode:twocents:

Yes, but does he know when this child was taken from her crib? According to his client, she went to bed at 10:30, and never saw this child again. So, from 10:30 until 3:30 am is 5 hours. I'd just like to know if Joe considers 5 hours a short period of time wrt human decomposition, or if he knows more than we know regarding what occurred between the hours of 10:30 and 3:30. I mean, he's the one saying a body wouldn't decompose in such a "short period of time", so I'd just like to know his frame of reference. :innocent:

2goldfish
10-22-2011, 12:27 PM
Respectfully, I disagree.

:blowkiss: if you've come to a different conclusion from your research I certainly respect that!

even with a difference of opinion, though, LE can and does "fudge the truth" when interviewing, they do it in many cases. it's another method of tripping up suspects, I dont mean anything bad to imply LE "lies" because it is part of their job.

nursebeeme
10-22-2011, 12:28 PM
So how soon can a cadaver dog make a hit?

I always thought it was around an hour after death but have no idea where I heard it. I had a friend use her dogs during an earthquake so maybe from her.

take your question over to the q/a thread for cadaver dogs/hrd dogs.. I believe your question has already been answered by our experts sarx and oriah

Bemsmom
10-22-2011, 12:29 PM
I don't believe LE told MK or any other media person a thing about the polygraph test. I'm thinking MK misspoke. I'm not so sure they told DB she failed, because DB is the one who made this statement. She probably did fail, but until LE states this as fact, I'm not buying anything from DB.

LE has kept their mouths shut in this case for good reason. They want to find out the truth. JMO

I agree that I think there was some mis-speaking/misquoting going on re: what was told to MK by LE. Why would they tell her DB 'failed miserably', but say 'no comment' regarding that fact during PCs? Doesn't make any sense, especially since they have been so tight lipped.

Donjeta
10-22-2011, 12:30 PM
I'm sure he didn't mean they just grabbed some dog out of the pound and paraded it through the house, but rather, what type of training the dog had and how skilled the dog is. What history the dog has of being right almost all the time. (Again, in any study I've read in the last years, the dogs can be right ALMOST all the time, with 94% apparently being a very good score, indicating a very skilled dog. These are dogs who hit on known decomp sites, i couldn't find a study for dogs who falsely hit on sites known not to be contaminated. Which would have been more interesting here.)

I think the dogs they used to search for Jessica Lunsford were probably highly trained, but they couldn't track her, nor could the dogs tracking Laci Peterson hit on places where she was known to have been recently. Dogs couldn't track little Skylar (i forget last name, wandered off in the middle of the night from the tent).

I'm just curious. Did more than one dog hit, for example?

I'm no dog expert but I think that false negative errors of tracking dogs are probably caused by altogether different factors than the false positive errors of human remains detection dogs.

Geralyn
10-22-2011, 12:33 PM
LE has refused to comment on the poly results. It's only Deborah herself, who says what they told her.

I've certainly seen cops do that. We all have seen it. They say we have evidence, your friend ratted you out, you failed your poly, etc. It's legal, it's common. It's a tactic to try to break a witness if they're lying. She didn't break, though.

I'm not sure at all that she failed the poly and LE isn't saying.

So you think its possible that she passed the poly..but LE told her she did not? (just trying to clarify) Or do you think she is just saying that she was told she failed, publicly, to bolster her further lack of cooperation? tia

JeannaT
10-22-2011, 12:36 PM
Whether DB failed the poly or not (and we don't know whether she did or didn't), she sure rushed herself to the nearest reporte in order to get out in front of the story that she did fail it.

JMO

Would a guilty person do that though? I see that as the act of an innocent person. Like little Breann's parents admitting they both failed.

Who knows, actually, if they did fail. They were innocent, though.

curiositycat
10-22-2011, 12:37 PM
:blowkiss: if you've come to a different conclusion from your research I certainly respect that!

even with a difference of opinion, though, LE can and does "fudge the truth" when interviewing, they do it in many cases. it's another method of tripping up suspects, I dont mean anything bad to imply LE "lies" because it is part of their job.

"IF" she did kill that baby, I am okay with them using anything they can to get to the bottom of the situation.

I am concerned with "victim's" rights. Not the rights of possible criminals.

I am not an verified expert, and neither are you. We both have our own ideas, and that's okay. I am fine with that. If everyone believed the same here, that might be really boring. :innocent:

JeannaT
10-22-2011, 12:38 PM
So you think its possible that she passed the poly..but LE told her she did not? (just trying to clarify) Or do you think she is just saying that she was told she failed, publicly, to bolster her further lack of cooperation? tia

I really don't know. I think either she failed it, or she passed it and they told her she failed it when they were shouting at her that they knew she was guilty of killing her baby.

I really don't know which of the two it is.

It was her husband who initially stopped "cooperating" i.e. wanted to stop being a punching bag, and I think she followed him in his decision to take a break.

Insomnia Momma
10-22-2011, 12:39 PM
that was a tricksy statement. the way she stated it implies to someone who is ignorant of decompositional events that dogs can only hit in advanced stages which is not true at all. why the need for feeling tricksy?

speaking of decomp events, when I heard some carpeting was taken up, possibly where the dog(s) hit, I wondered if the illustrious dr arpad vass may be called upon in this case.

Mrs. 2 Vass! You really do loves him, huh? :blowkiss:

He is adorable and he sure knows his stuff, although I'm betting he wants nothing to do with something like this ever again after that mess in June!

:banghead:

cluciano63
10-22-2011, 12:42 PM
Would a guilty person do that though? I see that as the act of an innocent person. Like little Breann's parents admitting they both failed.

Who knows, actually, if they did fail. They were innocent, though.

Apparently Terri Horman couldn't wait to tell Desiree and Kaine that she failed, and a lot of people believe she is guilty.

2goldfish
10-22-2011, 12:42 PM
Mrs. 2 Vass! You really do loves him, huh? :blowkiss:

He is adorable and he sure knows his stuff, although I'm betting he wants nothing to do with something like this ever again after that mess in June!

:banghead:

cant fault a girl for dreaming :floorlaugh:

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 12:44 PM
Would a guilty person do that though? I see that as the act of an innocent person. Like little Breann's parents admitting they both failed.

Who knows, actually, if they did fail. They were innocent, though.

Did Breann's parents also spin it that LE were just trying to screw with them?

Insomnia Momma
10-22-2011, 12:44 PM
cant fault a girl for dreaming :floorlaugh:

Never! I found him charming and adorable myself! I'd never step on your toes though :blowkiss:

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 12:47 PM
Never! I found him charming and adorable myself! I'd never step on your toes though :blowkiss:

That's nice...but BOTH of you are stepping on MY toes because...I CALLED DIBS ON HIM FIRST!! :furious:

Insomnia Momma
10-22-2011, 12:48 PM
That's nice...but BOTH of you are stepping on MY toes because...I CALLED DIBS ON HIM FIRST!! :furious:

I would NEVER step on my favorite mock juror's toes! :floorlaugh:

bessie
10-22-2011, 12:55 PM
:uthere::werk::)

Thread Title: Live MSM Coverage on Baby Lisa, 22-23 October 2011

Thanks,

Bessie

frankie069
10-22-2011, 01:04 PM
I really don't know. I think either she failed it, or she passed it and they told her she failed it when they were shouting at her that they knew she was guilty of killing her baby.

I really don't know which of the two it is.

It was her husband who initially stopped "cooperating" i.e. wanted to stop being a punching bag, and I think she followed him in his decision to take a break.

I think pass or fail are the only options and I hope they drag her back in and tell her again real soon that she killed her baby. They need to scare her into speaking. OR they need to pull other people into interrogation and scare the crapola out of them so they talk. Someone knows what happened besides the parents and they need to bring them in and slip them up. I dont care if they waterboard them at this point. This is all about Lisa and not about those parents that have done nothing but lie this whole time. Nevermind the cadaver dog hit.. Way too much evidence, circumstantial as it might be, there is an abundance of it. I feel like calling the police station there and asking them why she isnt being hauled in for more questions. JI in MOO looks like someone you can scare easy, maybe they should take him in for questioning.

Do we know of any live feeds on TV/internet at all. I have searched but cant find anything at all, seems very quiet.

jjenny
10-22-2011, 01:04 PM
I believe it was reported JI refuses to be interviewed without DB present.

loveandhugs
10-22-2011, 01:05 PM
We have all heard the tapes of LE questioning the Anthonys and in the beginning Casey. Did they sound like evil, mean spirited people, or people that were trying to get to the truth in order to find Caylee. The longer it takes to solve a case, especially in regards to children, it is possible no one will be charged and the child will never be found. LE is damned if they do, and damned if they don't, I wouldn't want to walk in their shoes. Are there bad members of LE, yes, there are bad people in all aspects of our lives, but that doesn't mean all human beings are bad. LE wants to find the truth, the "bad" people don't sit down and admit their guilt, LE has to find the truth before it is too late.

At least people that may feel they were wrongly charged of a crime can have the benefit of a defense attorney to protect their "rights", unfortunately it doesn't work that way for victims, all they have are the members of LE. Bashing all LE seems to be the thing to do anymore, they just want to find out what happened to Lisa and I feel they are doing the best that they can under the circumstances.

Donjeta
10-22-2011, 01:13 PM
<snipped by me>

“There’s really no scenario where this baby, God forbid she was dead, would have decomposed in that short a period of time,” Tacopina told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Friday night.

Interesting, because from everything I've read, chemical changes begin to occur in the body the moment the heart stops beating. But setting that aside...I'd sure like to know what Tacopina knows, that we don't know, that indicates to him that this was a "short period of time". Is 6 hours a short period of time, in his opinion? Assuming, of course, that the neighbor did see Lisa alive?

He thinks wordplay is going to save his clients. If he conjures up an image of Lisa as a decomposed skeletal remains and everyone agrees that it's not possible in a few hours, his clients must be innocent. Never mind what decomposition means to the dogs.

JMO but these types of defense lawyers do more harm than good for their clients. When the excuses they come up with are based on a complete misunderstanding of the situation (intentional or not), I'm more likely to be convinced that the client is guilty.

If JI is innocent this would be a good time to get his own representation. IMO.

Melanie
10-22-2011, 01:24 PM
Bill Stanton says the questions he has include, "is the dog trained" :rolleyes:

What do you reckon are the chances that FBI took an untrained dog there and just called it a "cadaver dog"?

Didn't Cindy Anthony say the same thing when the doggie hit in her backyard? pfffttttt....

Just sayin....

Mel

nursebeeme
10-22-2011, 01:25 PM
:uthere::werk::)

Thread Title: Live MSM Coverage on Baby Lisa, 22-23 October 2011

Thanks,

Bessie

bumping up

cachmo
10-22-2011, 01:26 PM
I believe it was reported JI refuses to be interviewed without DB present.

Do you have a link or thread for that? Everything moves fast here and I missed it. TIA.

JeannaT
10-22-2011, 01:37 PM
Didn't Cindy Anthony say the same thing when the doggie hit in her backyard? pfffttttt....

Just sayin....

Mel

Well, in retrospect, though, Baby Caylee wasn't in fact there. If a cadaver dog hit in the grandparents back yard, it was a false hit.

Geralyn
10-22-2011, 01:37 PM
Apparently Terri Horman couldn't wait to tell Desiree and Kaine that she failed, and a lot of people believe she is guilty.

Well innocent or guilty, I would definitely tell my own husband if I failed a poly. (and likely the childs other bio parent)
But ftr, I do believe in that particular case, the woman is involved. jmo

Geralyn
10-22-2011, 01:39 PM
Well, in retrospect, though, Baby Caylee wasn't in fact there. If a cadaver dog hit in the grandparents back yard, it was a false hit.

Oh? Do we know that the baby was never in that backyard at any point (once deceased?) and then moved? I didn't follow that case closely, fwiw.

JeannaT
10-22-2011, 01:41 PM
Oh? Do we know that the baby was never in that backyard at any point (once deceased?) and then moved? I didn't follow that case closely, fwiw.

I don't know. It doesn't seem the baby was ever there - she tried to come up with some cock and bull story that Caylee drowned in her parent's swimming pool but since her dad sexually molested her throughout her childhood she learned to keep secrets . . . bla bla bla bla some total malarky stuff.

I guess we'll never know for sure but I don't think the baby was ever in that home after Casey killed her.

Melanie
10-22-2011, 01:42 PM
Oh? Do we know that the baby was never in that backyard at any point (once deceased?) and then moved? I didn't follow that case closely, fwiw.

If you go by the DT's theory that caylee died in the backyard, in the pool, then it would make sense. But who the heck knows what really happened to Caylee. There's many a thread on it.

Carry on --

Mel

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 01:47 PM
I think pass or fail are the only options and I hope they drag her back in and tell her again real soon that she killed her baby. They need to scare her into speaking. OR they need to pull other people into interrogation and scare the crapola out of them so they talk. Someone knows what happened besides the parents and they need to bring them in and slip them up. I dont care if they waterboard them at this point. This is all about Lisa and not about those parents that have done nothing but lie this whole time. Nevermind the cadaver dog hit.. Way too much evidence, circumstantial as it might be, there is an abundance of it. I feel like calling the police station there and asking them why she isnt being hauled in for more questions. JI in MOO looks like someone you can scare easy, maybe they should take him in for questioning.

Do we know of any live feeds on TV/internet at all. I have searched but cant find anything at all, seems very quiet.
It isn't a "pass" or "fail" type of thing. I remember this well from the Cummings case and all of Misty's escapades.

The test is "deception indicated". Certain, pertinent questions will either be "truthful" or "deception indicated". DB is claiming on the question of do you know where Lisa is? She had a "deception indicated" result.

Does that make any sense?

JMO

frankie069
10-22-2011, 01:53 PM
It isn't a "pass" or "fail" type of thing. I remember this well from the Cummings case and all of Misty's escapades.

The test is "deception indicated". Certain, pertinent questions will either be "truthful" or "deception indicated". DB is claiming on the question of do you know where Lisa is? She had a "deception indicated" result.

Does that make any sense?

JMO

Oh absolutely, I was just talking from the perspective that its either pass or fail in the eyes of the law. Obviously it goes deeper than that because they are inadmissible in court. They are just an indicator.

frankie069
10-22-2011, 01:55 PM
Well, in retrospect, though, Baby Caylee wasn't in fact there. If a cadaver dog hit in the grandparents back yard, it was a false hit.

Uh, I followed that case from day one and a dog got it a hit in that backyard. It was thought there is where she possibly by Caylee on the ground and bound her before putting her in the trunk. Who ever said it was a false hit, I dont recall that unless you are talking from the defenses point of view.

JSV
10-22-2011, 02:04 PM
There hasn't been an arrest yet or charges filed in the disappearance of Baby Lisa, but JT and BS are he!!-bent on "defending" their clients: Attack the investigation, accuse LE of shoddy police work and untrained search dogs, yada...yada...yada. Oh, and have your client admit that she was drinking to the point of (possibly) blacking out. No body, no case. Horse hash, all of it. Someone get me a barf bag, please :sick:

They are all sounding like JB & CM and the A's . IMO

Bon
10-22-2011, 02:07 PM
Well, in retrospect, though, Baby Caylee wasn't in fact there. If a cadaver dog hit in the grandparents back yard, it was a false hit.

Not necessarily......Caylee could have been placed in the backyard until the murderess decided where to dump her...... she was alone the day she backed her car into the garage and borrowed the shovel.....no one else was there.

Bon
10-22-2011, 02:10 PM
They are all sounding like JB & CM and the A's . IMO

It's sickening, isn' t it??? Why would anyone want to defend a person who harmed a child :waitasec:

Geralyn
10-22-2011, 02:22 PM
It's sickening, isn' t it??? Why would anyone want to defend a person who harmed a child :waitasec:

To ensure their civil rights? .

jacy
10-22-2011, 02:24 PM
:floorlaugh:
Bill Stanton says the questions he has include, "is the dog trained" :rolleyes:

What do you reckon are the chances that FBI took an untrained dog there and just called it a "cadaver dog"?

:floorlaugh:

JSV
10-22-2011, 02:25 PM
It's sickening, isn' t it??? Why would anyone want to defend a person who harmed a child :waitasec:

Yes it is very sickening .IMO They do it for their 15 min. of fame and $$$$$$$$$$.The hell with the murdered child . :furious:

Bon
10-22-2011, 02:26 PM
To ensure their civil rights? .

And to lie and say anything else they can to get their client free.........:furious:

And JT says, I have 5 children myself....and the point is???

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 02:27 PM
Bill Stanton says the questions he has include, "is the dog trained" :rolleyes:

What do you reckon are the chances that FBI took an untrained dog there and just called it a "cadaver dog"?
I sure hope someone handed BS the article where it was reported that

"The FBI Forensic Canine Unit" is now in Kansas City.

Me thinks those are probably some of the best of the best - KWIM?

Oriah
10-22-2011, 02:32 PM
I sure hope someone handed BS the article where it was reported that

"The FBI Forensic Canine Unit" is now in Kansas City.

Me thinks those are probably some of the best of the best - KWIM?

All I can say is... good luck with that one, Bill. :beagle:

Oriah
10-22-2011, 02:46 PM
And to lie and say anything else they can to get their client free.........:furious:

And JT says, I have 5 children myself....and the point is???

I *think* that post was meant to convey that many criminal defense attorneys do their job out of respect and honor for protecting law, and in particular the 'innocent until proven guilty.'
There are certainly plenty of unethical ones out there (as there are in every profession) but there are also ethical ones.
And that has nothing to do with my opinion on what these particular ones are.

Just that I think that post was very accurate, and very sensitive to the many attorneys who believe in upholding constitutional rights.

marge_rita
10-22-2011, 02:50 PM
Not necessarily......Caylee could have been placed in the backyard until the murderess decided where to dump her...... she was alone the day she backed her car into the garage and borrowed the shovel.....no one else was there.

:seeya: Bon,
That's what I believe happened. As someone posted yesterday, killers often move bodies.

imo

curiousc
10-22-2011, 03:14 PM
Does anyone have the full hardcopy article featured in People Magazine?

Did JI state that he was supposed to be home at 10 p.m. from Starbucks but that the work took longer than expected? Did he also claim he could not phone home from the work cell in his pocket?

If I am correct it would be in this edition:

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20539176,00.html

Bon
10-22-2011, 03:15 PM
I *think* that post was meant to convey that many criminal defense attorneys do their job out of respect and honor for protecting law, and in particular the 'innocent until proven guilty.'
There are certainly plenty of unethical ones out there (as there are in every profession) but there are also ethical ones.
And that has nothing to do with my opinion on what these particular ones are.

Just that I think that post was very accurate, and very sensitive to the many attorneys who believe in upholding constitutional rights.

And you are certainly entitled to your opinion as I am to mine :)

KR2tonenow
10-22-2011, 03:19 PM
There hasn't been an arrest yet or charges filed in the disappearance of Baby Lisa, but JT and BS are he!!-bent on "defending" their clients: Attack the investigation, accuse LE of shoddy police work and untrained search dogs, yada...yada...yada. Oh, and have your client admit that she was drinking to the point of (possibly) blacking out. No body, no case. Horse hash, all of it. Someone get me a barf bag, please :sick:

If DB "blacked out" then she wouldn't remember ANYTHING - that would include - a possible accident---....the cadaver dog hit by mom's bed.

From People magazine:
On October 17, 2011, an FBI cadaver dog was brought into the residence upon consent of [parents Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin]," states a request for a search warrant that police carried out (http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20538685,00.html) at the Kansas City home two days later. "The cadaver dog indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed."

P.S. I believe the FBI knows how to train their dogs

my_tee_mouse
10-22-2011, 03:21 PM
I sure hope someone handed BS the article where it was reported that

"The FBI Forensic Canine Unit" is now in Kansas City.

Me thinks those are probably some of the best of the best - KWIM?
Yep, I would say that would make 'em "top dawg" dogs alright.

Geralyn
10-22-2011, 03:23 PM
I *think* that post was meant to convey that many criminal defense attorneys do their job out of respect and honor for protecting law, and in particular the 'innocent until proven guilty.'
There are certainly plenty of unethical ones out there (as there are in every profession) but there are also ethical ones.
And that has nothing to do with my opinion on what these particular ones are.

Just that I think that post was very accurate, and very sensitive to the many attorneys who believe in upholding constitutional rights.

Thank you...you were spot on. Feel free to "interpret" me any time :)

aks9847
10-22-2011, 03:24 PM
Link for video from the Today Show -- Saturday 10-22-11


http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44997964#44997964


Bill Stanton was interviewed ... the "usual spin" by BS ...

Questioning the HRD dogs ... look at the "facts" ... look at the "sightings" ... BS is spinning as usual ...

MOO ...

Couldn't BS come up with something even slightly plausible, like the idea that maybe someone had passed away in the house before JI owned it? :waitasec: I mean, does your cat go outside and roll around in roadkill??? Mine doesn't....but even if he did....a dead animal smells much different than a deceased human!

Just because their atty. thinks that they are "simple" people, it doesn't mean that the rest of the people around here are too "simple" to read through your bs, BS. :banghead:

KR2tonenow
10-22-2011, 03:25 PM
:seeya: Bon,
That's what I believe happened. As someone posted yesterday, killers often move bodies.

imo

OT--- Also, if I recall the cadaver dog hit in the storage shed behind the Anthony house.

Bon
10-22-2011, 03:29 PM
Do I see similarities???

JB=JT
LP=BS

And here we go again.................

Geralyn
10-22-2011, 03:29 PM
:seeya: Bon,
That's what I believe happened. As someone posted yesterday, killers often move bodies.

imo

True that. Eugene Zapata, case in point. First disposed of wifes body in some underbrush, later moved to some land (buried for years) then later still, moved to storage facility..then dismembered and disposed of in landfill. A real shell game that one.

Paula Sims, in one of her daughters death, if I recall correctly, put baby in freezer than later moved to a trash bin somewhere?

It seems like the unthinkable, but aren't they all really? (murders)

Hopeful2
10-22-2011, 03:31 PM
Do you have a link or thread for that? Everything moves fast here and I missed it. TIA.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/20/3220223/baby-lisas-lawyers-say-police.html

“We’re talking about sitting down with our detectives separately … to learn the things that only the adults, only the parents of this child, might know,” Young said."

Hi! Newbie here. I have been following WS since the beginning of baby Lisa's disappearance. You definitely have the best info out there, thank you.
I am not so sure DB & JI are completely cooperating if they won't be interviewed separately? MOO

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 03:34 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/20/3220223/baby-lisas-lawyers-say-police.html

“We’re talking about sitting down with our detectives separately … to learn the things that only the adults, only the parents of this child, might know,” Young said."

Hi! Newbie here. I have been following WS since the beginning of baby Lisa's disappearance. You definitely have the best info out there, thank you.
I am not so sure DB & JI are completely cooperating if they won't be interviewed separately? MOO
Thank you.

And

:welcome:


I think you'll enjoy it here!

KR2tonenow
10-22-2011, 03:35 PM
There was plenty of time when the parents of Baby Lisa didn't talk to LE, during which this time they could have moved the infant. The house wasn't searched till 2-3 weeks later. Maybe there wasn't any significant blood showing up in luminol but I tend to trust LE and think they know what happened. Unfortunately, we have this new snake of defense atty already dishing up BS for the masses. IMO

Geralyn
10-22-2011, 03:35 PM
Couldn't BS come up with something even slightly plausible, like the idea that maybe someone had passed away in the house before JI owned it? :waitasec: I mean, does your cat go outside and roll around in roadkill??? Mine doesn't....but even if he did....a dead animal smells much different than a deceased human!

Just because their atty. thinks that they are "simple" people, it doesn't mean that the rest of the people around who are too "simple" to read through your bs, BS. :banghead:

But if he knows a dead animal woudn't fly as passing for a dead person, what else does he have to lean on other than the 'sightings", kwim?

epiphany
10-22-2011, 03:36 PM
Tacopina on the FBI cadaver dog:

Joe Tacopina, a New York lawyer hired by a benefactor he has not identified to represent Bradley and Irwin, said the dog could have detected "a dirty diaper or 10 other non-human-remains items."

But granting that cadaver dogs are trained chiefly to detect decomposing flesh, "There's really no scenario where this baby, God forbid she was dead, would have decomposed in that short a period of time," Tacopina told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Friday night.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-10-22/missing-baby-mo/50861648/1

Cyndy Short on the FBI cadaver dog:

"My understanding is that there are cold cases where dogs have hit on scents of decomposition that have been in the home for as long as 28 years," said Cyndy Short, in an exclusive interview with "Good Morning America." "This is an old home. 63 years old. There could be a lot of other explanations for that."

But Brad Garrett, an ABC News consultant and former FBI special agent, said cadaver dogs are typically accurate.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-family-attorney-cadaver-dogs-misleading/story?id=14790822

jacy
10-22-2011, 03:36 PM
Does anyone have the full hardcopy article featured in People Magazine?

Did JI state that he was supposed to be home at 10 p.m. from Starbucks but that the work took longer than expected? Did he also claim he could not phone home from the work cell in his pocket?

If I am correct it would be in this edition:

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20539176,00.html

Yes to the time. "I told Deborah I should be home by 10 or so," (JI) says. People continues: But the job was trickier than expected, and he didn't leave the Starbucks until after 3:00a.m. And because they hadn't paid their cell phone bill and their service had been restricted, Irwin wasn't able to let Bradley know when he'd be home. [ People, October 31, 2011].

josie1986
10-22-2011, 03:37 PM
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/20/3220223/baby-lisas-lawyers-say-police.html

“We’re talking about sitting down with our detectives separately … to learn the things that only the adults, only the parents of this child, might know,” Young said."

Hi! Newbie here. I have been following WS since the beginning of baby Lisa's disappearance. You definitely have the best info out there, thank you.
I am not so sure DB & JI are completely cooperating if they won't be interviewed separately? MOO

:welcome4::woohoo:

Bon
10-22-2011, 03:37 PM
:wagon: Welcome Hopeful2

marge_rita
10-22-2011, 03:39 PM
If DB "blacked out" then she wouldn't remember ANYTHING - that would include - a possible accident---....the cadaver dog hit by mom's bed.

From People magazine:
On October 17, 2011, an FBI cadaver dog was brought into the residence upon consent of [parents Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin]," states a request for a search warrant that police carried out (http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20538685,00.html) at the Kansas City home two days later. "The cadaver dog indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human in an area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed."

P.S. I believe the FBI knows how to train their dogs

:aktion:

KR2tonenow
10-22-2011, 03:40 PM
Yes to the time. "I told Deborah I should be home by 10 or so," (JI) says. People continues: But the job was trickier than expected, and he didn't leave the Starbucks until after 3:00a.m. And because they hadn't paid their cell phone bill and their service had been restricted, Irwin wasn't able to let Bradley know when he'd be home. [ People, October 31, 2011].

Starbucks at 3am? What am I missing? and it sounds like a "created" alibi.

Minette
10-22-2011, 03:42 PM
Starbucks at 3am? What am I missing? and it sounds like a "created" alibi.

JI is an electrician & was working on a remodeling job at the Starbucks.

josie1986
10-22-2011, 03:42 PM
Tacopina on the FBI cadaver dog:

Joe Tacopina, a New York lawyer hired by a benefactor he has not identified to represent Bradley and Irwin, said the dog could have detected "a dirty diaper or 10 other non-human-remains items."

But granting that cadaver dogs are trained chiefly to detect decomposing flesh, "There's really no scenario where this baby, God forbid she was dead, would have decomposed in that short a period of time," Tacopina told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Friday night.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-10-22/missing-baby-mo/50861648/1

Cyndy Short on the FBI cadaver dog:

"My understanding is that there are cold cases where dogs have hit on scents of decomposition that have been in the home for as long as 28 years," said Cyndy Short, in an exclusive interview with "Good Morning America." "This is an old home. 63 years old. There could be a lot of other explanations for that."

But Brad Garrett, an ABC News consultant and former FBI special agent, said cadaver dogs are typically accurate.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-family-attorney-cadaver-dogs-misleading/story?id=14790822

from what i understand from what sarx has said,JT's statement is highly unlikely to be the case because the dog/dogs used would have been highly trained to distinguish these scents.also from what i've read from sarx,CS's statement would be unlikely aswell but not impossible.the carpet they took out on the day of the seach looked pretty new? JMO

sorry sarx if i've misinterpreted your posts

Turnadot
10-22-2011, 03:43 PM
Maybe I'm ill informed or naïve, but I don't believe for one second that the FBI's dogs are anything less than top notch and reliable.

So BS questioning the dog's certifications, etc is straw-clutching.

IMO

MamaK
10-22-2011, 03:43 PM
Yes to the time. "I told Deborah I should be home by 10 or so," (JI) says. People continues: But the job was trickier than expected, and he didn't leave the Starbucks until after 3:00a.m. And because they hadn't paid their cell phone bill and their service had been restricted, Irwin wasn't able to let Bradley know when he'd be home. [ People, October 31, 2011].

That's interesting.

jacy
10-22-2011, 03:44 PM
JI is an electrician & was working on a remodeling job at the Starbucks.

Have we heard previously that he was to get home that early? I cannot recall a single quote, but I've missed many pages.

Minette
10-22-2011, 03:44 PM
Have we heard previously that he was to get home that early? I cannot recall a single quote, but I've missed many pages.

Jacy, the People article is the first time I have ever heard that particular bit of information.

josie1986
10-22-2011, 03:45 PM
Maybe I'm ill informed or naive, but I don't believe for one second that the FBI's dogs are anything less than top notch and reliable.

So BS questioning the dog's certifications, etc is straw-clutching.

IMO

yeah i totally agree.....i think the fbi's would be some of the best in the country no?

sometimes i feel these people just need to be quiet :waitasec:

MamaK
10-22-2011, 03:46 PM
Have we heard previously that he was to get home that early? I cannot recall a single quote, but I've missed many pages.

I've heard what time he came home and that it was the first time he's worked that late but not that him coming home that late was unexpected. I thought all along that DB knew he wasn't going to be coming home until that late. So, if that's true, she would've been expecting him to walk through the door at any moment, right?

josie1986
10-22-2011, 03:46 PM
Jacy, the People article is the first time I have ever heard that particular bit of information.

ive not heard that eitheir......so that would be ANOTHER change in their story jeeeeeeez :banghead:

Melanie
10-22-2011, 03:47 PM
Does anyone have the full hardcopy article featured in People Magazine?

Did JI state that he was supposed to be home at 10 p.m. from Starbucks but that the work took longer than expected? Did he also claim he could not phone home from the work cell in his pocket?

If I am correct it would be in this edition:

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20539176,00.html

I have the hardcopy here.

Irwin, who works at a friend's electrical company during the day, had a side job remodeling the lighting in a nearby Starbucks that evening. He spent time with his family between shifts, then drove to work around 5:30 PM. "I told Deborah I should be home by 10 or so".

And, because they hadn't paid their cell phone bill, and their service had been restricted, Irwin wasn't able to let Bradley know when he'd be home.

IMHO, DB thought JI was going to be home around 10:00 PM. The article indicates the neighbor left at 10:30 PM, and that after the neighbor left, DB, feeling drunk, goes to bed.

HTH,

Mel

Geralyn
10-22-2011, 03:49 PM
Tacopina on the FBI cadaver dog:

Joe Tacopina, a New York lawyer hired by a benefactor he has not identified to represent Bradley and Irwin, said the dog could have detected "a dirty diaper or 10 other non-human-remains items."

But granting that cadaver dogs are trained chiefly to detect decomposing flesh, "There's really no scenario where this baby, God forbid she was dead, would have decomposed in that short a period of time," Tacopina told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Friday night.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-10-22/missing-baby-mo/50861648/1

Cyndy Short on the FBI cadaver dog:

"My understanding is that there are cold cases where dogs have hit on scents of decomposition that have been in the home for as long as 28 years," said Cyndy Short, in an exclusive interview with "Good Morning America." "This is an old home. 63 years old. There could be a lot of other explanations for that."

But Brad Garrett, an ABC News consultant and former FBI special agent, said cadaver dogs are typically accurate.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-family-attorney-cadaver-dogs-misleading/story?id=14790822


I wish I knew where she got her "understanding" from. (Short)
I've been trying to find any data to support that. Or find the oldest decomp scent a dog will hit on when searching for a "recent' decomp. Hope I'm articulating that correctly. :::off to Q&A thread::::

curiousc
10-22-2011, 03:50 PM
Yes to the time. "I told Deborah I should be home by 10 or so," (JI) says. People continues: But the job was trickier than expected, and he didn't leave the Starbucks until after 3:00a.m. And because they hadn't paid their cell phone bill and their service had been restricted, Irwin wasn't able to let Bradley know when he'd be home. [ People, October 31, 2011].

Those pesky cell phones again! I believe LE knows by now if those phones worked or not!

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 03:50 PM
I have the hardcopy here.

Irwin, who works at a friend's electrical company during the day, had a side job remodeling the lighting in a nearby Starbucks that evening. He spent time with his family between shifts, then drove to work around 5:30 PM. "I told Deborah I should be home by 10 or so".

And, because they hadn't paid their cell phone bill, and their service had been restricted, Irwin wasn't able to let Bradley know when he'd be home.

IMHO, DB thought JI was going to be home around 10:00 PM. The article indicates the neighbor left at 10:30 PM, and that after the neighbor left, DB, feeling drunk, goes to bed.

HTH,

Mel
Thank you.

The bit about the "phone calling" doesn't make any sense by what they have said. Wasn't all this "resticted service" talk about how DB's phone could GET calls - she just couldn't call out? Now, according to this article JI has it turned around and is saying that DB couldn't GET calls and that's why he couldn't let her know when he would be home?

Something stinks here....................

MamaK
10-22-2011, 03:51 PM
Now I guess I have to go to Dollar General and buy a People magazine. :woohoo: :rolleyes:

josie1986
10-22-2011, 03:52 PM
I wish I knew where she got her "understanding" from. (Short)
I've been trying to find any data to support that. Or find the oldest decomp scent a dog will hit on when searching for a "recent' decomp. Hope I'm articulating that correctly. :::off to Q&A thread::::

if you go to the HRD questions thread sarx has answered questions anyones had,but from what ive understood that is unlikely but not impossible? i may have misunderstood though.but IMO a dog that would be as highly trained as an Fbi HRD dog would be able to distinguish new and old decomp.

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 03:53 PM
And that also clears up the statement by JI that LE said something to him about how "something could have happened in the 2 hours he was home".

So I was right. He worked a "regular day shift" - probably coming home around 3-ish and then left again at 5:20 That puts him home only 2 hours that day all together.


hhmmmmm..............................and the thick plottens....................:waitasec:

Wendy101
10-22-2011, 03:53 PM
I have the hardcopy here.

Irwin, who works at a friend's electrical company during the day, had a side job remodeling the lighting in a nearby Starbucks that evening. He spent time with his family between shifts, then drove to work around 5:30 PM. "I told Deborah I should be home by 10 or so".

And, because they hadn't paid their cell phone bill, and their service had been restricted, Irwin wasn't able to let Bradley know when he'd be home.
IMHO, DB thought JI was going to be home around 10:00 PM. The article indicates the neighbor left at 10:30 PM, and that after the neighbor left, DB, feeling drunk, goes to bed.

HTH,

Mel

BBM: well this changes things up a bit...
Maybe mom got mad that JI was not home when he should have been ..... being drunk and angry at the same time is not a good thing when you are tending to a sick child.... IMO

lynnb
10-22-2011, 03:53 PM
I have the hardcopy here.

Irwin, who works at a friend's electrical company during the day, had a side job remodeling the lighting in a nearby Starbucks that evening. He spent time with his family between shifts, then drove to work around 5:30 PM. "I told Deborah I should be home by 10 or so".

And, because they hadn't paid their cell phone bill, and their service had been restricted, Irwin wasn't able to let Bradley know when he'd be home.

IMHO, DB thought JI was going to be home around 10:00 PM. The article indicates the neighbor left at 10:30 PM, and that after the neighbor left, DB, feeling drunk, goes to bed.

HTH,

Mel

BBM

So if JI was doing a side job at night, and not his normal fulltime job, who was there to verify that JI was in fact at this Starbucks the entire time?

josie1986
10-22-2011, 03:54 PM
Now I guess I have to go to Dollar General and buy a People magazine. :woohoo: :rolleyes:

i don't think people is in sale in scotland,is there an online copy of the story?

Melanie
10-22-2011, 03:54 PM
Not sure if this article has been linked. My apologies if this is a double post:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/21/justice/missouri-missing-girl/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Cadaver dog indicates 'hit' in home of missing Missouri girl

"The cadaver dog indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human in the area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed," the affidavit read.

It also said that interviews with people involved in the case "revealed conflicting information" and that Bradley told police she did not initially look for her baby behind the house because she "was afraid of what she might find."

BBM: This is the first time I've heard that DB was afraid to look behind the house (I'm assuming this is the back yard). Did she think baby Lisa walked out there on her own? How do 10 month old babies open doors?

MOO

Mel

Bon
10-22-2011, 03:54 PM
Thank you.

The bit about the "phone calling" doesn't make any sense by what they have said. Wasn't all this "resticted service" talk about how DB's phone could GET calls - she just couldn't call out? Now, according to this article JI has it turned around and is saying that DB couldn't GET calls and that's why he couldn't let her know when he would be home?

Something stinks here....................


I just typed this almost same thought and erased it thinking I didn't know what I was talking about!!! :floorlaugh:

Minette
10-22-2011, 03:55 PM
I have never understood the bit about the cell phones being on restricted usage--I had always thought that if you didn't pay your bill they got cut off, period. (Of course the phone could still be used to call 911, though maybe not everyone realizes that.) On the other hand, I've never not paid the cell phone bill so I actually have no idea what the normal policy is. I would *guess* that it varies by carrier.

We don't know what JI said to LE about his work times, so for all we know they already know this. But it does seem strange that every time a new story comes about, a new detail of the sequence of events that night is put forth.

josie1986
10-22-2011, 03:57 PM
Not sure if this article has been linked. My apologies if this is a double post:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/21/justice/missouri-missing-girl/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Cadaver dog indicates 'hit' in home of missing Missouri girl

"The cadaver dog indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human in the area of the floor of Bradley's bedroom near the bed," the affidavit read.

It also said that interviews with people involved in the case "revealed conflicting information" and that Bradley told police she did not initially look for her baby behind the house because she "was afraid of what she might find."

BBM: This is the first time I've heard that DB was afraid to look behind the house (I'm assuming this is the back yard). Did she think baby Lisa walked out there on her own? How do 10 month old babies open doors?

MOO

Mel

i don't get why she said that,i'd be frantically running about checking everywhere,probably even places she couldnt be like the fridge or something :floorlaugh: just because i'd be in a state of hysteria. the yard would be the place i'd go once i realized she wasn't in the house

Melanie
10-22-2011, 03:57 PM
Now I guess I have to go to Dollar General and buy a People magazine. :woohoo: :rolleyes:

Here's a 2.00 coupon for People magazine :)

http://www.couponnetwork.com/people-magazine-coupon/epg5o6

You should only have to pay 1.99 then.

Mel

SarahW
10-22-2011, 03:57 PM
yeah i totally agree.....i think the fbi's would be some of the best in the country no?

sometimes i feel these people just need to be quiet :waitasec:

I couldn't disagree more. Until the training of the dogs is known, the specificity of the alert must remain uknown. "Bad" training could be an issue, but it doesn't have to be "bad" training to be insufficient to determine if the alert was related to Lisa's corpse.

lynnb
10-22-2011, 03:59 PM
I have never understood the bit about the cell phones being on restricted usage--I had always thought that if you didn't pay your bill they got cut off, period. (Of course the phone could still be used to call 911, though maybe not everyone realizes that.) On the other hand, I've never not paid the cell phone bill so I actually have no idea what the normal policy is. I would *guess* that it varies by carrier.

We don't know what JI said to LE about his work times, so for all we know they already know this. But it does seem strange that every time a new story comes about, a new detail of the sequence of events that night is put forth.

I used to work for a smaller regional cell phone carrier....if you didn't pay your bill you could receive no incoming calls/messages. If you tried to make an outgoing call, you were rerouted directly to customer service to pay your bill. Not sure how the bigger carriers do things.

cluciano63
10-22-2011, 04:00 PM
People magazine isn't really known for getting the details right in these kinds of stories, IMO. If I remember correctly, their article about Kyron included some never known before details (and never seen since) that matched nothing we knew about the case and probably were complete distortions. IMO

KR2tonenow
10-22-2011, 04:03 PM
BBM

So if JI was doing a side job at night, and not his normal fulltime job, who was there to verify that JI was in fact at this Starbucks the entire time?

That's what I want to know. Has it been verified - by JI's employer that he was there the ENTIRE time to 3am? Gosh, couldn't JI have left work, while mom was drunk and passed out, found baby then went back to work? Left work then took baby on foot to the woods --- and that would fit timeline with witnesses. 4AM

curiousc
10-22-2011, 04:03 PM
Thank you.

The bit about the "phone calling" doesn't make any sense by what they have said. Wasn't all this "resticted service" talk about how DB's phone could GET calls - she just couldn't call out? Now, according to this article JI has it turned around and is saying that DB couldn't GET calls and that's why he couldn't let her know when he would be home?

Something stinks here....................

Vallhall said the same thing in her newest blog!

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/10/22/lisa-irwin-case-search-warrant-and-people-details/#more-8239

The stories are changing again. :banghead:

josie1986
10-22-2011, 04:04 PM
I have never understood the bit about the cell phones being on restricted usage--I had always thought that if you didn't pay your bill they got cut off, period. (Of course the phone could still be used to call 911, though maybe not everyone realizes that.) On the other hand, I've never not paid the cell phone bill so I actually have no idea what the normal policy is. I would *guess* that it varies by carrier.

We don't know what JI said to LE about his work times, so for all we know they already know this. But it does seem strange that every time a new story comes about, a new detail of the sequence of events that night is put forth.

ive tried to see if i can find any info on this but all ive come up with is on a forum somwhere a few people saying that if people try and ring they get a message saying "this number is unavailable" can't be sure though.....thats not how it works in the UK or from the experiences ive had,the line stays live for a month or so i think and u can still receive incoming calls.

Turnadot
10-22-2011, 04:04 PM
I couldn't disagree more. Until the training of the dogs is known, the specificity of the alert must remain uknown. "Bad" training could be an issue, but it doesn't have to be "bad" training to be insufficient to determine if the alert was related to Lisa's corpse.
It's the friggin FBI, I'm sure their dogs and handlers are highly trained. There's no doubt in my mind about that.

However...

Could the dog, even a highly trained dog be mistaken? Absolutely. That is what BS should have went with.

But BS calling into question the FBI dog's actual training and certification is just laughable to me.

IMO

curiousc
10-22-2011, 04:10 PM
I have never understood the bit about the cell phones being on restricted usage--I had always thought that if you didn't pay your bill they got cut off, period. (Of course the phone could still be used to call 911, though maybe not everyone realizes that.) On the other hand, I've never not paid the cell phone bill so I actually have no idea what the normal policy is. I would *guess* that it varies by carrier.

We don't know what JI said to LE about his work times, so for all we know they already know this. But it does seem strange that every time a new story comes about, a new detail of the sequence of events that night is put forth.

Here in Canada ours gets cut off and when you try to call anyone, it forwards right to the cell phone company. LOL

However, here's one thing though. I've known of people who have got cut off but could still text.

jacy
10-22-2011, 04:12 PM
I've heard what time he came home and that it was the first time he's worked that late but not that him coming home that late was unexpected. I thought all along that DB knew he wasn't going to be coming home until that late. So, if that's true, she would've been expecting him to walk through the door at any moment, right?

Except that she was possibly drunk (and maybe hopped up on adrenaline for any tasks she might be involved in) so somewhat oblivious to time? In the article she said she wasn't worried about him because she knew he was at work. (I assume that's responding to whether she worried he was late.) I 'd think she wasn't thinking about anything in a logical sense that night.

It does cause me to opine that there was an immediacy to creating her story, if she knew he'd be home at any minute. MOO

Oriah
10-22-2011, 04:13 PM
It's the friggin FBI, I'm sure their dogs and handlers are highly trained. There's no doubt in my mind about that.

However...

Could the dog, even a highly trained dog be mistaken? Absolutely. That is what BS should have went with.

But BS calling into question the FBI dog's actual training and certification is just laughable to me.

IMO

BBM: Yep. Even the best of the best in ANY human profession, sometimes make mistakes. We're all human? Well, they're all canine. ;)

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 04:14 PM
Here's a 2.00 coupon for People magazine :)

http://www.couponnetwork.com/people-magazine-coupon/epg5o6

You should only have to pay 1.99 then.

Mel
Wish I had ink in my printer!

**sigh**

Guess I'l just go back to grabbing one as I walk in the grocery and getting DH to "push the cart" while I read and we shop. :floorlaugh:

Donjeta
10-22-2011, 04:17 PM
I couldn't disagree more. Until the training of the dogs is known, the specificity of the alert must remain uknown. "Bad" training could be an issue, but it doesn't have to be "bad" training to be insufficient to determine if the alert was related to Lisa's corpse.

I do hope that the FBI dog handlers know their business because if they don't who does? It's possible that they completely botched the job because the dog is badly trained or had a bad nose day but generally I find that it's often a sign that the defense team is in trouble when they have to nullify the evidence saying the professionals who collected it don't know what they were doing.

21merc7
10-22-2011, 04:20 PM
I am hoping the Feds brought in the dogs. I know they commented on the dogs being from somewhere other than KC. The Feds usually have all their i's dotted and t's crossed, so it may be very difficult to refute the dogs findings if anything links up to Baby Lisa.

Bon
10-22-2011, 04:21 PM
I do hope that the FBI dog handlers know their business because if they don't who does? It's possible that they completely botched the job because the dog is badly trained or had a bad nose day but generally I find that it's often a sign that the defense team is in trouble when they have to nullify the evidence saying the professionals who collected it don't know what they were doing.

:rocker:

lynnb
10-22-2011, 04:21 PM
Who reported that the phones were on "restricted" use? Did LE say that or did DB say that?

If they were on restricted use, I find it odd that they would work for the "kidnapper" at 2:38. This has been one lucky kidnapper so far IMO

Tiki
10-22-2011, 04:22 PM
i don't get why she said that,i'd be frantically running about checking everywhere,probably even places she couldnt be like the fridge or something :floorlaugh: just because i'd be in a state of hysteria. the yard would be the place i'd go once i realized she wasn't in the house

If you thought your baby might be in the back yard hurt or cold and scared, wouldn't you go there to find her? Why did she assume she'd find something to be afraid about?
....unless she knew Lisa wasn't out there . . . :(

.

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 04:24 PM
I am hoping the Feds brought in the dogs. I know they commented on the dogs being from somewhere other than KC. The Feds usually have all their i's dotted and t's crossed, so it may be very difficult to refute the dogs findings if anything links up to Baby Lisa.
It says in the search warrant that it was an FBI cadaver dog that got the hit.

HTH

matou
10-22-2011, 04:25 PM
Any parent of a missing child who will not look within their own property for that child is acting beyond suspicious. I can't believe she made a statement like that.

Ronso
10-22-2011, 04:26 PM
Ok, as for cell phones- I'll put what I do know.

When we had Sprint, if we were late on a bill, we would be on restricted service for a few days. This meant I could receive incoming calls, but not call out (would just take me directly to customer service).

Now we have T-Mobile... if I'm late on my bill, and don't pay anything towards it, I am shut off completely. However, if I paid at least half of my bill by the due date, they'll put me on restricted service for a few days until they shut me off. However, their restricted service does not allow texting or incoming calls. I simply had outgoing calls.

It would be interesting to know who their cell carrier was. If I had to guess, Sprint, because they're huge in Kansas City, and almost all of hubby's family out there has Sprint.

Boodles
10-22-2011, 04:28 PM
Cyndy Short on the FBI cadaver dog:

"My understanding is that there are cold cases where dogs have hit on scents of decomposition that have been in the home for as long as 28 years," said Cyndy Short, in an exclusive interview with "Good Morning America." "This is an old home. 63 years old. There could be a lot of other explanations for that."

She better hope someone died in that room many years ago, b/c she has just acknowledged it as a valid hit by this statement.

WideOpen
10-22-2011, 04:29 PM
I have t-mobile service and when I dont pay my bill of reminders and a late fee added to next months bill...after a few days they suspend my service. This just happened this month, by gosh! Anyway, t-mobile allows incoming calls and text to be received but no calls or text out. Just thought this may be of some relevance. JMO

madge
10-22-2011, 04:30 PM
about her not checking the back yard due to "fear" .. she thought the baby was kidnapped from the getgo, so why was she so fearful of the back yard? I'd be looking for possible evidence the "kidnapper" left behind.

I'm beginning to think there is something to the siting of the baby though..are we sure that the dad did not come home at 10:30 and found the baby dead. Wonder if any of the neighbors heard him actually come in, or do they "for sure" have him on camera all night at work.

I wish we knew more about their "real" comings and goings on that particular evening.

Boodles
10-22-2011, 04:32 PM
If you thought your baby might be in the back yard hurt or cold and scared, wouldn't you go there to find her? Why did she assume she'd find something to be afraid about?
....unless she knew Lisa wasn't out there . . . :(

.

...or she did look, and did find her, but something awful had happened out there. It's said there is an ounce of truth in every lie; her denying looking out there might reflect that, in fact, she did. And yeah, I know many think that's a ludicrous theory but it's a possibility. And I don't really want to speculate about what could have happened with an unattended crawling baby 'at large'. The thoughts just make me sick.

Bon
10-22-2011, 04:34 PM
She better hope someone died in that room many years ago, b/c she has just acknowledged it as a valid hit by this statement.

Wouldn't their body have to have been on the carpet if someone else did die in that bedroom? "Most" people die in their beds or fav chair when at home..
Just asking!:waitasec:

SarahW
10-22-2011, 04:35 PM
BBM: Yep. Even the best of the best in ANY human profession, sometimes make mistakes. We're all human? Well, they're all canine. ;)

The training is not uniform for all cadaver dogs, it's not known what dogs or what service they used, and since training varies and the dogs are not know, questioning the training is something ALL should do if they want to determine how specific the hit was.

I personally want to know whether the floorboards still caused a hit.

madge
10-22-2011, 04:36 PM
re the backyard, could the dog have mauled her to death??? Wouldn't there be blood evidence and stuff though? Gosh, this is maddening for sure. Wonder where the dog is now.

Murphismo
10-22-2011, 04:36 PM
i don't get why she said that,i'd be frantically running about checking everywhere,probably even places she couldnt be like the fridge or something :floorlaugh: just because i'd be in a state of hysteria. the yard would be the place i'd go once i realized she wasn't in the house

ME TOO! Seriously, when I can't find a kid of mine, I even look in the FREEZER outside:floorlaugh:

MamaK
10-22-2011, 04:37 PM
Wouldn't their body have to have been on the carpet if someone else did die in that bedroom? "Most" people die in their beds or fav chair when at home..
Just asking!:waitasec:

...unless something causes them to collapse, like a heart attack. who knows?

katydid23
10-22-2011, 04:40 PM
I used to work for a smaller regional cell phone carrier....if you didn't pay your bill you could receive no incoming calls/messages. If you tried to make an outgoing call, you were rerouted directly to customer service to pay your bill. Not sure how the bigger carriers do things.

I have 4 cell phones on a Sprint family plan. My phone is the 'master' number because I originally set up the plan. We have a huge phone bill and I sometimes procrastinate. So I often find that my phone is on restriction. I can receive calls and texts, but when I go to make a call, I am directed immediately to the payment center. Once I pay them with my debit card, I am immediately able to make calls once again. The restriction phase only lasts for about 3 days I believe. If I do not pay my bill w/in that period, then all of the phones would be disconnected.

During restriction, the other 3 phones work fine, btw

Bon
10-22-2011, 04:41 PM
about her not checking the back yard due to "fear" .. she thought the baby was kidnapped from the getgo, so why was she so fearful of the back yard? I'd be looking for possible evidence the "kidnapper" left behind.

I'm beginning to think there is something to the siting of the baby though..are we sure that the dad did not come home at 10:30 and found the baby dead. Wonder if any of the neighbors heard him actually come in, or do they "for sure" have him on camera all night at work.

I wish we knew more about their "real" comings and goings on that particular evening.

I'm hoping that LE knows so much more than the public does, taking their time crossing their T's and dotting their I's so they can make an arrest soon...... and not have a problem with a technicality later on.....

ela_ss teacher
10-22-2011, 04:43 PM
re the backyard, could the dog have mauled her to death??? Wouldn't there be blood evidence and stuff though? Gosh, this is maddening for sure. Wonder where the dog is now.

BBM
That thought crossed my mind as well, but the fact that she hid it (if that happened) doesn't make sense.

madge
10-22-2011, 04:43 PM
How close is the boys room to the fenced part of the yard where they kept the dog? It's just SO strange that nobody heard anything, their dog didn't bark and they say nothing from a neighbors dog who barked at most things moving. My dogs are in a fenced area in the back and don't have access to my front yard BUT they do bark still and they bark a different bark when it's just not a cat or dog of the neighbors that they see.

That being said, my husband does tell me that when I first go to sleep, for say the first couple of hours that I am an extreme deep sleeper and that he worries if someone did come in during that time I'd never hear the dogs or them. I don't know if a black out puts you in that kind of deep knock out but if its the case, Deborah might not have heard a thing but wouldn't yout hink the boys would hear something and start running to mommy

katydid23
10-22-2011, 04:45 PM
Who reported that the phones were on "restricted" use? Did LE say that or did DB say that?

If they were on restricted use, I find it odd that they would work for the "kidnapper" at 2:38. This has been one lucky kidnapper so far IMO

I ma going to bet they had a family plan for the 2 phones because that is by far the cheapest way to go. In other words if he already had a cell,then he could add his fiance for about 10 or 15 more dollars a month.

If he had a family plan, then during 'restricted service', only one of the phones would be unable to call out. The other phone would be working just fine. At least with Sprint that is how it works.

Turnadot
10-22-2011, 04:47 PM
The training is not uniform for all cadaver dogs, it's not known what dogs or what service they used, and since training varies and the dogs are not know, questioning the training is something ALL should do if they want to determine how specific the hit was.

I personally want to know whether the floorboards still caused a hit.
With respect, I don't think I should have to question whether or not the FBI's dogs are highly trained. Just like I shouldn't have to question whether or not Agent John Doe is highly trained, but of course, Agent John Doe is not infallible.

Neither are the dogs.

But the training itself is top notch.

IMO

natsound
10-22-2011, 04:53 PM
Does Deborah Bradley only have one outfit? :innocent:

vlpate
10-22-2011, 04:55 PM
Does Deborah Bradley only have one outfit? :innocent:

Patsy Ramsey wore the same thing all the time too. Just sayin.

Bon
10-22-2011, 05:02 PM
I remember they said Patsy Ramsey wore the same clothes the day they reported Jon Benet missing as the same clothes she had worn the night before to the Christmas party

epiphany
10-22-2011, 05:08 PM
CNN LIVE

Reporter on scene: ....quiet in front of parents' home today; a lawyer for family say details [of search warrant] will derail the investigation

-family is terrified for t whereabouts of their daughter
-according to a lawyer, family feels she's alive & out there, and they just want her back

angeleleven
10-22-2011, 05:14 PM
Judge Jeanine P is suppose to discuss the case at the bottom of the hour on Fox (according to what they just said).

Bon
10-22-2011, 05:18 PM
CNN LIVE

Reporter on scene: ....quiet in front of parents' home today; a lawyer for family say details [of search warrant] will derail the investigation

-family is terrified for t whereabouts of their daughter
-according to a lawyer, family feels she's alive & out there, and they just want her back

I think someone they know very well is trying to DERAIL this investigation:crazy:

matou
10-22-2011, 05:27 PM
I have no idea where to post this but:

How was DB gonna get up for the kids in the morning, to get them ready to go to school? Do they have their own alarm clocks? Did she use a cell phone to wake her up or an alarm clock? Did JI usually get the kids ready in the morning?

Patty G
10-22-2011, 05:32 PM
I have no idea where to post this but:

How was DB gonna get up for the kids in the morning, to get them ready to go to school? Do they have their own alarm clocks? Did she use a cell phone to wake her up or an alarm clock? Did JI usually get the kids ready in the morning?

I would imagine she had an alarm clock. We don't know who gets the children up in the morning.

We have a great Q&A thread.
Q & A ~ Ask a question, leave an answer. NO DISCUSSIONS - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

katydid23
10-22-2011, 05:47 PM
I have no idea where to post this but:

How was DB gonna get up for the kids in the morning, to get them ready to go to school? Do they have their own alarm clocks? Did she use a cell phone to wake her up or an alarm clock? Did JI usually get the kids ready in the morning?

I wondered the same thing. And didn't the 8 yr old have homework? No mention in the timeline of them doing their schoolwork for the next day.

She certainly did not have the boys welfare in mind, in any case. How were they supposed to be prepared for school the next morning with so much chaos going on with mom the night before?

TheDuchess
10-22-2011, 05:48 PM
Does Deborah Bradley only have one outfit? :innocent:

I guess that means she must be guilty. What is that supposed to mean??

curiositycat
10-22-2011, 05:53 PM
Does Deborah Bradley only have one outfit? :innocent:

I think maybe she doesn't want to go into the house and get anymore of her clothes. I saw one picture of JI carrying out of the house, what looked like, his clothes.

She doesn't want to be in that house at all. I think that is really interesting, I thought the first time I heard it, that something bad happened there and she can't face it. That was my gut feeling, and I still feel that way. MOO

TheDuchess
10-22-2011, 05:53 PM
Just a question-is there any evidence that DB has a history of violence? I know that CA didn't either, but she also had a history of a lot of other stuff going on, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

The one thing I know is this-she has a witness (the neighbor) that was with her a very good portion of the night. I would be willing to be that the neighbor went home by 10 p.m. with the kids and DB's boys went to be shortly thereafter. It just doesn't seem plausible to me that DB could have turned violent and killed her baby, got rid of the body and back home without the kids catching her or Jeremy coming home. I also can't believe she had an accomplice. She didn't even have a phone to call anyone to come and help her.

It sounds to me like she was a bit of a drunk, someone knew that, and when she crashed, they took their chance-I also think whoever did it knew Jeremy was working late that night.

TheDuchess
10-22-2011, 05:54 PM
I think maybe she doesn't want to go into the house and get anymore of her clothes. I saw one picture of JI carrying out of the house, what looked like, his clothes.

She doesn't want to be in that house at all. I think that is really interesting, I thought the first time I heard it, that something bad happened there and she can't face it. That was my gut feeling, and I still feel that way. MOO

Well, something bad did happen-her daughter disappeared.

curiositycat
10-22-2011, 05:56 PM
Well, something bad did happen-her daughter disappeared.
True, but if I take that fact, along with her comment about that being "the omen house," its a bit strange. MOO

JI lost his daughter too, and he went in and got some clothes. He also stated he would move back there. They disagreed about that in the Megyn Kelly interview with them.

TheDuchess
10-22-2011, 06:07 PM
True, but if I take that fact, along with her comment about that being "the omen house," its a bit strange. MOO

JI lost his daughter too, and he went in and got some clothes. He also stated he would move back there. They disagreed about that in the Megyn Kelly interview with them.

My mom was always afraid of her own shadow and I could see her doing that. My father was a realist and strong. He never let anything shake him. Different people with different personalities.

natsound
10-22-2011, 06:07 PM
I guess that means she must be guilty. What is that supposed to mean??

Wow, you think that means she's guilty? :floorlaugh:

JeannaT
10-22-2011, 06:11 PM
Does Deborah Bradley only have one outfit? :innocent:

Maybe she hasn't had time, or placed a priority, on doing laundry?

She'd be suspect if she wore lots of beautiful things, too, and did her hair.

LadyPirate
10-22-2011, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by matou
I have no idea where to post this but:

How was DB gonna get up for the kids in the morning, to get them ready to go to school? Do they have their own alarm clocks? Did she use a cell phone to wake her up or an alarm clock? Did JI usually get the kids ready in the morning?

I have no idea about these kids, but at 6 and 8, my kids had their own alarm clocks and they always got up by them. Now I was up, helping them with breakfast, etc, because that's what I should do, but they were fairly self-sufficient at those ages.

I had to remind them of bedtime and all that goes with that and I tucked them in until they told me to stop.

Maybe there was a routine, etc in this house, but I do know that while I was pretty laid back, my kids were in bed long before 10:30 on a school night. It doesn't seem that on this particular night, if there was a routine, it wasn't in place at that time.

Sherbie
10-22-2011, 06:19 PM
I try always to give the benefit of the doubt when possible, but I'm with others who have commented on DB's having said she didn't initially check the back yard because she was afraid of what she might find. If there's even the tiniest chance your child might be lying out in the cold - alone, frightened, injured, needing her mommy - your fear of what you might find would never overrule your desire to locate and help your child. It just wouldn't.

That statement is the only thing so far for which I can't conceive of any alternate, benefit-of-the-doubt explanation. I mean, who would choose to let a potentially injured (or at least cold and missing) baby lie in distress in the elements - possibly every second counting for saving her life - because they're too worried about what they might find? No one - especially not the baby's parent.

This is nagging at me more than anything else so far. I'm still not ready to say she did something horrible to her child, but that statement is absolutely ridiculous and was made for a reason - either it was a poor attempt to think quickly in response to being questioned about the back yard (maybe to cover the fact that she knew there was no need to look there) or she knew the baby had been there and didn't want to associate herself with any evidence that might turn up.

I'm hoping I'm overlooking an innocent explanation. If someone can think of one, please post it. I'd love to have a reason not to feel this way about that statement of hers.

tiredblondy
10-22-2011, 06:21 PM
With respect, I don't think I should have to question whether or not the FBI's dogs are highly trained. Just like I shouldn't have to question whether or not Agent John Doe is highly trained, but of course, Agent John Doe is not infallible.

Neither are the dogs.

But the training itself is top notch.

IMO

:clap::clap: Thank you Turnadot.

We have a whole thread on the dogs, we have a members who have sar dosg and we have heard their opinion after watching the dogs. The comment you quoted Turnadot was also stated last night.

I don't know if the purpose of these comments is to try to cause doubt or thinks they have more training than our experts or if they're working for the defense and are just trying to cast doubt. But any comments need to go on the dog thread and they keep appearing in other threads! It is very frustrating.

katydid23
10-22-2011, 06:23 PM
I try always to give the benefit of the doubt when possible, but I'm with others who have commented on DB's having said she didn't initially check the back yard because she was afraid of what she might find. If there's even the tiniest chance your child might be lying out in the cold - alone, frightened, injured, needing her mommy - your fear of what you might find would never overrule your desire to locate and help your child. It just wouldn't.

That statement is the only thing so far for which I can't conceive of any alternate, benefit-of-the-doubt explanation. I mean, who would choose to let a potentially injured (or at least cold and missing) baby lie in distress in the elements - possibly every second counting for saving her life - because they're too worried about what they might find? No one - especially not the baby's parent.

This is nagging at me more than anything else so far. I'm still not ready to say she did something horrible to her child, but that statement is absolutely ridiculous and was made for a reason - either it was a poor attempt to think quickly in response to being questioned about the back yard (maybe to cover the fact that she knew there was no need to look there) or she knew the baby had been there and didn't want to associate herself with any evidence that might turn up.

I'm hoping I'm overlooking an innocent explanation. If someone can think of one, please post it. I'd love to have a reason not to feel this way about that statement of hers.

I agree. That statement is a big red flag for me. That and the fact they never called the stolen cell phones. I would have tried to do so immediately.imoo

ETA: My teen daughter has had her phone lost/stolen a few times. Each time we were able to go to Sprint and they immediately looked up her number to make sure it had not been used since she last used it herself.

Makes me wonder if they tried doing that. And if their phones were restricted then I am sure the cell company would have unrestricted them immediately given the dire circumstances, imoo.

Kat
10-22-2011, 06:32 PM
True, but if I take that fact, along with her comment about that being "the omen house," its a bit strange. MOO

JI lost his daughter too, and he went in and got some clothes. He also stated he would move back there. They disagreed about that in the Megyn Kelly interview with them.

I apologize for being lost :)

I just got on not too long ago. It's still just noonish here. Can you tell me where Deborah said omen house? I'd like to look at that first!

TIA for helping me today :)

tiredblondy
10-22-2011, 06:34 PM
I apologize for being lost :)

I just got on not too long ago. It's still just noonish here. Can you tell me where Deborah said omen house? I'd like to look at that first!

TIA for helping me today :)


Kat she said it in one of those media interviews I think it was the day they did so many.

JeannaT
10-22-2011, 06:35 PM
I agree. That statement is a big red flag for me. That and the fact they never called the stolen cell phones. I would have tried to do so immediately.imoo

They were panicked trying to find their daughter. If LE didn't immediately attempt to call the cell phones, I'm surprised. Seems remiss. My guess is, somebody did try pretty quickly since they were told immediately that the phones were also missing.

Patty G
10-22-2011, 06:37 PM
This thread is so confusing and getting harder to find most recent MSM news today. :crazy:

Patty G
10-22-2011, 06:45 PM
Did any MSM articles actually come out today regarding the case?

Patty G
10-22-2011, 06:47 PM
We have a cellphone thread.
Missing cell phones - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Tuffy
10-22-2011, 06:51 PM
Kat she said it in one of those media interviews I think it was the day they did so many.

It was the interview they did with Fox.

PlainJaneDoe
10-22-2011, 06:53 PM
A kid (about 6?) has spotted Lisa's picture on People, and the following conversation ensues....

Mommy, who's that baby?

(Irritably) oh, some kid whose mom got drunk and now she doesn't know what happened to her baby. If people want to get drunk, they just shouldn't have kids. Some people just shouldn't be allowed to give birth. What are you doing?! Quit staring and pay attention. Give me the hot chocolate! I'm not the one who was crying like a baby for hot chocolate, so if you want me to get it for you you better wise up and hand it to me so I can pay for your damn hot chocolate.
:escape:

Bon
10-22-2011, 06:53 PM
:clap::clap: Thank you Turnadot.

We have a whole thread on the dogs, we have a members who have sar dosg and we have heard their opinion after watching the dogs. The comment you quoted Turnadot was also stated last night.

I don't know if the purpose of these comments is to try to cause doubt or thinks they have more training than our experts or if they're working for the defense and are just trying to cast doubt. But any comments need to go on the dog thread and they keep appearing in other threads! It is very frustrating.

Several people on here were discussing the dogs, not just Turnadot.It's very easy to get a little off topic sometime.....
Sorry to hear you are so frustrated but try not to sweat the small things...life is way to short........:)

linajoy
10-22-2011, 06:54 PM
Did any MSM articles actually come out today regarding the case?

None that I have seen

PlainJaneDoe
10-22-2011, 06:56 PM
None that I have seen

I haven't either, other than possibly People magazine. I don't know if this was the first day for it on newsstands or just the first day I saw it around here.

Oriah
10-22-2011, 07:07 PM
Several people on here were discussing the dogs, not just Turnadot. I believe a mod did also.....
Sorry to hear you are so frustrated but try not to sweat the small things...life is way to short........:)

I think the idea was just to keep the dog issues in the Q&A dog thread. Nothing more, nothing less. :waitasec:
It just makes it easier to address specific issues regarding SAR dogs- and especially issues that many people do not have personal experience with. (Fortunately, may I add!)

Melanie
10-22-2011, 07:22 PM
Maybe she hasn't had time, or placed a priority, on doing laundry?

She'd be suspect if she wore lots of beautiful things, too, and did her hair.

Yup, you can't win for tryin. I can't be bothered as to what she's wearing, I'm concerned with what's coming out of her mouth myself.

MOO

Mel

PlainJaneDoe
10-22-2011, 08:02 PM
Yup, you can't win for tryin. I can't be bothered as to what she's wearing, I'm concerned with what's coming out of her mouth myself.

MOO

Mel

Agreed. I think I remember that in some of the Hailey Dunn threads, there were some posts that hinted that it was suspicious that BD didn't wear the t-shirts during media appearances, and billie's friend who was posting on WS basically said, "What she's wearing is the least of her concerns right now." like when someone you love is missing, your personal appearance isn't your top priority, and I think that's totally reasonable.

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 08:07 PM
Yup, you can't win for tryin. I can't be bothered as to what she's wearing, I'm concerned with what's coming out of her mouth myself.

MOO

Mel

I am interested in what she's wearing, because I'm still waiting to see her in the grey "D-unk!" t-shirt and black capri pants she was wearing on the wine run video.

She does still have those clothes, surely.

RANCH
10-22-2011, 08:12 PM
I am interested in what she's wearing, because I'm still waiting to see her in the grey "D-unk!" t-shirt and black capri pants she was wearing on the wine run video.

She does still have those clothes, surely.

So your saying these clothes could have forensic evidence on them and may now be missing?

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 08:15 PM
So your saying these clothes could have forensic evidence on them and may now be missing?

I'm simply saying that I haven't seen DB wearing these clothes since the box wine run. Perhaps she still has them, perhaps LE now has them, perhaps they were the burnt clothes DB says she was shown...I'm just saying I'm interested in what she's wearing because I am actively watching for those items of clothing, that's all.

madge
10-22-2011, 08:17 PM
I am interested in what she's wearing, because I'm still waiting to see her in the grey "D-unk!" t-shirt and black capri pants she was wearing on the wine run video.

She does still have those clothes, surely.

Very interesting!!! I bet they've been washed by now (if they are still around) I suppose LE would have to have a search warrant to ask for them though?

marge_rita
10-22-2011, 08:25 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-family-attorney-cadaver-dogs-misleading/story?id=14790822

Missing Baby Lisa: Family Attorney Says Cadaver Dogs May be Misleading Officials


My understanding is that there are cold cases where dogs have hit on scents of decomposition that have been in the home for as long as 28 years," said Cyndy Short
:banghead:Cyndy needs to talk with someone who trains or works with cadaver dogs.

Peepers
10-22-2011, 08:36 PM
Should be discussed on Judge Janine on fox tonight....I hope..

katydid23
10-22-2011, 08:38 PM
I am interested in what she's wearing, because I'm still waiting to see her in the grey "D-unk!" t-shirt and black capri pants she was wearing on the wine run video.

She does still have those clothes, surely.

WOW. I wonder if that was why LE wanted those videos from the store so badly. maybe they wanted to see what she was wearing that night and if it was the same thing she told them she was wearing. Hmmmm.......?

PlainJaneDoe
10-22-2011, 08:49 PM
Should be discussed on Judge Janine on fox tonight....I hope..

Can I look forward to updates? :innocent:

Mountain_Kat
10-22-2011, 08:52 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-family-attorney-cadaver-dogs-misleading/story?id=14790822

Missing Baby Lisa: Family Attorney Says Cadaver Dogs May be Misleading Officials

:banghead:Cyndy needs to talk with someone who trains or works with cadaver dogs.

Well, at least we now know the attorneys are reading here.

Hi Joe. You're alot cuter when you don't speak. :innocent:

matou
10-22-2011, 08:58 PM
Is this MSM: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/10/22/3999454/fort-bragg-nc-case-offers-bloggers.html

In this article, there are parallels between what's going on with Lisa and a case that occurred in Fort Bragg, NC four years ago. The only reason this is relevant is that a baby disappeared. The victim's father was in the same unit as DB's then husband (82nd airbourne). Oh yeah, the mother eventually confessed to murder.

Dum-Dum Sucker
10-22-2011, 08:58 PM
Should be discussed on Judge Janine on fox tonight....I hope..

:dance: Can't wait for "Justice." The Judge kicks serious :behind: imo.

madge
10-22-2011, 08:58 PM
How did I miss this in the media coverage before ..

. Quote by LE ""We've haven't discounted it and we have no reason to believe that they didn't see what they said that they saw." This in reference to the reported citings of the baby in the diaper in the neighborhood.

angeleleven
10-22-2011, 09:00 PM
Justice with Judge Jeanine on now.

katydid23
10-22-2011, 09:02 PM
Is this MSM: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/10/22/3999454/fort-bragg-nc-case-offers-bloggers.html

In this article, there are parallels between what's going on with Lisa and a case that occurred in Fort Bragg, NC four years ago. The only reason this is relevant is that a baby disappeared. The victim's father was in the same unit as DB then husband (82nd airbourne). Oh yeah, the mother eventually confessed to murder.

I think that is maybe one reason they were x-raying the walls so thoroughly. I think they wondered if she pulled a copycat. imoo

Bon
10-22-2011, 09:04 PM
Justice with Judge Jeanine on now.

I just taped it, I'm watching election returns :)

Peepers
10-22-2011, 09:05 PM
Dr. Baden and Mark Fuhrnman (love him) on Judge's show, both think the cadaver dogs indicate LE is now looking for a body.

Peepers
10-22-2011, 09:06 PM
Police discovered "recently disturbed" area in garden

Peepers
10-22-2011, 09:07 PM
Mark Fuhrman is very pro cadaver dog..doesn't think the witnesses who spotted man with a baby is significant.

epiphany
10-22-2011, 09:08 PM
Mark F: a 4 hr gap; witnesses seeing a baby-could b a man or a woman>that doesn't support a kidnapping; the cadaver dog supports a theory

Peepers
10-22-2011, 09:08 PM
Dog hits are more than 90% accurate according to Judge J.

Peepers
10-22-2011, 09:09 PM
Cell phone call and dumpster fire are both at about 230 am

epiphany
10-22-2011, 09:10 PM
Judge J on report of cell phone call around 2:30 AM

Mark F: she hasn't allowed detectives to interrogate her again...evidence from affadavit>it layers into more of a picture...a 4 hr spread of time there and we don't know what occurred there

?: She's being accused.

?: As she should be.

Peepers
10-22-2011, 09:10 PM
Body language expert tonight will look at Lisa's parents.

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 09:11 PM
Joey Jackson (defense attny - talking head) saying it doesn't make sense to cooraborate the hits with the dog and that the baby is dead - and of course the parents aren't cooperating with LE because who would do that once LE started to accuse her.

(FWIW - J.J. is the ultimate defense attny - I've heard him "spin" on cases that are just ridiculous ideas)

PlainJaneDoe
10-22-2011, 09:12 PM
Body language expert tonight will look at Lisa's parents.

I'm interested to see this.

Thanksmto all those posting updates!

epiphany
10-22-2011, 09:15 PM
Judge J re the phone call and fire in t dumpster (at around same time)

Mark F: it's difficult w/out an interrogation; they confronted her>she didn't admit anything; what's missing from the home? was it in the dumpster? i think it's a stretch...

strawberry
10-22-2011, 09:15 PM
OMG her birthday is the same as my dd...11/11..Veteran's Day. :(

Peepers
10-22-2011, 09:16 PM
Judge: asks Fuhrman if the cell call and dumpster fire are related.
Fuhrman: they did find burned clothing, unknown if its related. Mother denies it.
Baden: always look for missing people in dumpsters or landfills :O
Joey..pfft..not related...means nothing.

epiphany
10-22-2011, 09:16 PM
Baden's Theory: when healthy baby dies when in bed w/an intoxicated parent...intoxicated parent rolling over on baby

strawberry
10-22-2011, 09:17 PM
Dr. Baden and Mark Fuhrnman (love him) on Judge's show, both think the cadaver dogs indicate LE is now looking for a body.

Did Dr. Baden on cadaver dogs? Interesting since his wife's defense teammates decried cadaver dogs. I can't take him seriously anymore. And I can't get past this Joey Jackson's accent, not to mention his defense stance. Ugh

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 09:17 PM
Baden saying it is good LE practice to check any and all dumpsters in the area of where the person goes missing from - either an adult or a child. Because body disposal in dumpsters is common.

Baden thinks IF the baby died in the bed that momma rolled over on the baby. She passed out, blacked out - under those circumstances it is possible

J.J. - thinks mom's story is plausible including the being drunk and having to answer for the time.


Whoa nelly - Judge J is going back at Joey J on how mom's story changed.

Blue Ridge
10-22-2011, 09:18 PM
Dr. Baden and Mark Fuhrnman (love him) on Judge's show, both think the cadaver dogs indicate LE is now looking for a body.

Thank you, and all, for keeping those of us who don't get that TV channel informed :)

Duke Fan4
10-22-2011, 09:19 PM
Thanks! You guys do a wonderful job keeping us informed. I just lurk.

epiphany
10-22-2011, 09:19 PM
Mark F: ...it would b more plausible [for Mom to say upfront] to say I saw my baby at 6:40 when I wasn't drunk

Blue Ridge
10-22-2011, 09:20 PM
Joey Jackson (defense attny - talking head) saying it doesn't make sense to cooraborate the hits with the dog and that the baby is dead - and of course the parents aren't cooperating with LE because who would do that once LE started to accuse her.



RSBBM

It doesn't? Really? :waitasec:

Wise Old Owl
10-22-2011, 09:21 PM
Baden brought up that mom didn't want to go look in the backyard because she was afraid of what she might find. Fhurman and Judge J chimed in and agreed about how "hinky" that statement is - Joey J said "and that's right - as she (mom) should be" - see, I told you he's good. lol

Peepers
10-22-2011, 09:22 PM
Did Dr. Baden on cadaver dogs? Interesting since his wife's defense teammates decried cadaver dogs. I can't take him seriously anymore. And I can't get past this Joey Jackson's accent, not to mention his defense stance. Ugh

I agree about Dr. Baden.. His opinion means nothing to me anymore. He will take the side of the highest bidder.

matou
10-22-2011, 09:22 PM
Lawyer Joe is on right now!!!

epiphany
10-22-2011, 09:23 PM
Whaat Joe Tacopina!

Peepers
10-22-2011, 09:23 PM
and here comes Joe!

katydid23
10-22-2011, 09:23 PM
I agree about Dr. Baden.. His opinion means nothing to me anymore. He will take the side of the highest bidder.

He is angling for his next job right before our eyes.

strawberry
10-22-2011, 09:23 PM
Here is Joe Tacopina...says he's a friend of Dr. Baden (who cares). No evidence of suffocation. Causes LI great pain.

Dum-Dum Sucker
10-22-2011, 09:23 PM
Joey Jackson (defense attny - talking head) saying it doesn't make sense to cooraborate the hits with the dog and that the baby is dead - and of course the parents aren't cooperating with LE because who would do that once LE started to accuse her.

(FWIW - J.J. is the ultimate defense attny - I've heard him "spin" on cases that are just ridiculous ideas)

:takeabow: Joey's spin is so outrageously over-the-top that it's like he's doing a stand-up act in a comedy club. Just ridiculous.

madge
10-22-2011, 09:23 PM
poor Joe telling how much trauma and pain that mommy is going through...oh puleese, how about the trauma that baby is going through? GRRRRRR

Peepers
10-22-2011, 09:23 PM
Joe: not concerned about the cadaver dogs hitting.
hahahahahahahahahahaha

jjenny
10-22-2011, 09:24 PM
Here is Joe Tacopina...says he's a friend of Dr. Baden (who cares). No evidence of suffocation. Causes LI great pain.

There is no evidence of anything right now because there is no body.

Bon
10-22-2011, 09:24 PM
Baden's Theory: when healthy baby dies when in bed w/an intoxicated parent...intoxicated parent rolling over on baby

And a 10 month old baby isn't going to cry or squeal at all?
It's not like she was a newborn...with no resistance

bammy
10-22-2011, 09:24 PM
In the 1st segment- Mark Furhman asked TH-defense atty. if he would go into a building after a bomb sniffing dog signaled their would be a bomb? TH said he wouldnt. :waitasec:

epiphany
10-22-2011, 09:24 PM
Joe T:...we've engaged one of t top experts in t world on cadaver dogs...decomp of human remains include fecal matter...

katydid23
10-22-2011, 09:24 PM
No evidence of suffocation ? well, D'uh. That is why there is no body to be found.

ETA; Jjenny,great minds think alike.

madge
10-22-2011, 09:25 PM
Poor Joe using HER timeline LOL He's totally dismissing the dog evidence and trying to say the dog found poop. He's delusional.

strawberry
10-22-2011, 09:25 PM
Joe is talking in circles. Now he is saying cadaver dogs hit on fecal matter. He spoke to expert. I never heard that.

Peepers
10-22-2011, 09:25 PM
Joe: doesnt matter what detectives or dogs do and say..could be fecal matter !!!!!!!!!

epiphany
10-22-2011, 09:25 PM
Joe: I have spoken to the foremost expert in the world [on cadaver dogs]

epiphany
10-22-2011, 09:25 PM
Joe T: he used his work phone to call 911

LancelotLink
10-22-2011, 09:26 PM
Joe has spoken to THE expert in cadaver dogs.
Hmmm, Jose?

madge
10-22-2011, 09:26 PM
he's very convinced no body will be found

Bon
10-22-2011, 09:26 PM
Joe: not concerned about the cadaver dogs hitting.
hahahahahahahahahahaha

God forbid but I wonder what his opinion of cadaver dogs would be if he had a child missing for over two weeks now...

jjenny
10-22-2011, 09:27 PM
he's very convinced no body will be found

And why would he be convinced of that?

epiphany
10-22-2011, 09:27 PM
Joe: I don't get into who's footing my bill; it's irrelevant; i wouldn't be involved...

Joe: they have sat down with LE for a grand total of 17 HRS...; i don't believe she has an alcohol problem-she drinks alcohol...