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View Full Version : LIVE MSM COVERAGE on BABY LISA - 24 OCTOBER 2011


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twall
10-24-2011, 07:18 AM
New thread for today!

Prayers for Lisa.

tut med
10-24-2011, 07:20 AM
The neighbor on the Today Show said the baby in the man's arms just had a diaper on.

angeleleven
10-24-2011, 07:21 AM
Does it no occur to JT that this man possibly was carrying out a dead baby to dispose of for the Irwin family. JMO

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 07:22 AM
I didn't pick up anything new except that it was Franzia boxed wine and that the box was empty

twall
10-24-2011, 07:23 AM
How much of the interior of the home did they show? I missed the first part but saw when the reporter pointed out the empty box of wine on the stove!

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 07:24 AM
How much of the interior of the home did they show? I missed the first part but saw when the reporter pointed out the empty box of wine on the stove!

He made a complete circle of the interior.

Melanie
10-24-2011, 07:25 AM
I didn't pick up anything new except that it was Franzia boxed wine and that the box was empty++

I knew that was a box o' Franzia and posted so last night.

Glad to see that's confirmed.

MOO

Mel

justbeachy
10-24-2011, 07:31 AM
I know some people have posted in other threads that they don't care about DB getting her hair done, but it infuriates me!!! (not their opinion, but the fact that she did it) I watched the Today Show segment and when it was over, I was still fuming about it.

madge
10-24-2011, 07:35 AM
Prayers Lisa is found today.

Re: Experiment last night, I'm none for the worse, no headache at all. Considering that bottle was $4 or close to it, if I drank to get smashed it would evidently take a lot and I'd not spend it for it.

twall
10-24-2011, 07:36 AM
GMA-a bit more video of lawyer in the home. Shows a bit of the basement, master br and boys br. She also points out LE emptied the wine box to compare what was left to what was consumed. ok dokie then!

Melanie
10-24-2011, 07:37 AM
Prayers Lisa is found today.

Re: Experiment last night, I'm none for the worse, no headache at all. Considering that bottle was $4 or close to it, if I drank to get smashed it would evidently take a lot and I'd not spend it for it.

Well you're up and at em early :) Glad the experiment left you none to worse for wear!

I got a kick out of hearing you open that poor bottle of wine with a screwdriver. :floorlaugh:

Insomnia Momma
10-24-2011, 07:39 AM
GMA-a bit more video of lawyer in the home. Shows a bit of the basement, master br and boys br. She also points out LE emptied the wine box to compare what was left to what was consumed. ok dokie then!

She also showed that the carpet was still in the bedroom, so police didn't take it which she seemed to make a big deal out of.

Melanie
10-24-2011, 07:39 AM
GMA-a bit more video of lawyer in the home. Shows a bit of the basement, master br and boys br. She also points out LE emptied the wine box to compare what was left to what was consumed. ok dokie then!

Huh? As in the kitchen sink type of experiment? I would have thought they might confiscate it as evidence vs. leaving it on the counter.

:waitasec:

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 07:39 AM
GMA-a bit more video of lawyer in the home. Shows a bit of the basement, master br and boys br. She also points out LE emptied the wine box to compare what was left to what was consumed. ok dokie then!

I guess that explains why it was empty.

Rallihanna
10-24-2011, 07:40 AM
I don't trust what the lawyers are saying. I'm pretty sure LE knows what they are doing. Here's hoping for finding LI today, and an arrest shortly thereafter.

Insomnia Momma
10-24-2011, 07:41 AM
Huh? As in the kitchen sink type of experiment? I would have thought they might confiscate it as evidence vs. leaving it on the counter.

:waitasec:

The box was on the counter and she lifted the bag out showing it was empty, her thought was police drained the box to measure how much was left vs. how much DB drank that night. HTH's!

ZsaZsa
10-24-2011, 07:43 AM
Wonder why their lawyer needs to lie each time, saying cadaver dogs probably just hit on diapers smell (they don't)- if they are not guilty of doing anything wrong wouldn't they want to pursue that finding, not try to deny it?

twall
10-24-2011, 07:44 AM
She also showed that the carpet was still in the bedroom, so police didn't take it which she seemed to make a big deal out of.

Yes, that was on GMA yesterday morning. They did a segment with the lawyer walking through the home.

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 07:48 AM
Wonder why their lawyer needs to lie each time, saying cadaver dogs probably just hit on diapers smell (they don't)- if they are not guilty of doing anything wrong wouldn't they want to pursue that finding, not try to deny it?

Not sure what they could say. "The cadaver dog hit in the bedroom and we fully believe it, but our clients had nothing to do with it."?

ETA - Probably should have just said, "We have no comment" rather than trying to come up with wild explanations.

twall
10-24-2011, 07:49 AM
Huh? As in the kitchen sink type of experiment? I would have thought they might confiscate it as evidence vs. leaving it on the counter.

:waitasec:

Nope, LE didn't take it, it is sitting on the stove plain as the nose on my face.

I want to ask the lawyer if she's sure there was any leftover wine for LE to take or did Debra and her guest polish it off that Monday night? hmmmmm?

Want to clarify the lawyer alleged LE drained the bag for comparison reasons and it is not a fact. Got in a bit of a hurry when posting!

Donjeta
10-24-2011, 07:51 AM
Well, if DB was out of it, who's to say the abductor didn't kill Lisa in the home? Maybe it's not a complete stranger but someone who has a connection to the family and turns out to be a bad apple.

butwhatif?
10-24-2011, 07:52 AM
The box was on the counter and she lifted the bag out showing it was empty, her thought was police drained the box to measure how much was left vs. how much DB drank that night. HTH's!

Surely they would take the whole box as evidence though? I can't see them pouring the rest of the wine into measuring cups at the house, rather than taking the whole thing to the lab to weigh, fingerprint, check serial number matches receipt, then measure the amount left.

regarless of it it was full or empty, I cannot fathom them not taking it, especially at the last search.

Either this atty is right about LE not being thorough, or they set up the wine cask there to reinforce the blackout possibility.

Either way, I don't like it.

luckyme
10-24-2011, 07:57 AM
Havent been on here for a couple of days. Had to take a break. What rug did LE take then? Not bedroom? moo

CathyinTexas
10-24-2011, 07:57 AM
The neighbor on the Today Show said the baby in the man's arms just had a diaper on.

Was this today that ou heard this? Is this the neighbor who was with her that night? Can you post a link please.

Insomnia Momma
10-24-2011, 08:00 AM
Yes, that was on GMA yesterday morning. They did a segment with the lawyer walking through the home.

Thank you! It was new to me since I had a busy busy weekend! I didn't get to see any news at all, even local! I didn't even know what the weather would be until this morning so I would know how to dress my kiddos for school! I'm ready for a relaxing Monday but my hot water heater went out yesterday while we were gone. :(

Did they also show the tape of the person walking near the gas station over the weekend? I can't tell if it's a man or a woman, and I really can't tell if they were carrying something or not :waitasec:

cece5300
10-24-2011, 08:01 AM
I know some people have posted in other threads that they don't care about DB getting her hair done, but it infuriates me!!! (not their opinion, but the fact that she did it) I watched the Today Show segment and when it was over, I was still fuming about it.

As of yesterday I was on the fence for the very first time, but I have to wonder....if my child was missing, the last thing on my mind would be getting my hair done. That doesn't have anything to do with baby Lisa or anything, but the story that she passed out drunk the night Lisa went missing, coupled with her getting her hair done now, in my opinion portrays her as not having her baby as her priority. Again, I'm not accusing her of anything. For all I know, the media people could have offered to make her over for free or something, but still. I'd be too busy living at the police station and searching for my baby to care about such things.

madge
10-24-2011, 08:04 AM
This is maddening for sure. I want to know more from LE but they are professionals. I still think the phone logs have given LE the right course to head on and they are staying that course and letting the case fall as it may.

luckyme
10-24-2011, 08:06 AM
I just hope it doesnt go cold!!! moo

madge
10-24-2011, 08:07 AM
I personally could not fathom having a makeover while my baby was missing, abducted, whatever they prefer to call it! I'd see myself still out searching EVERY day on my own, regardless of what my attorneys or the LE told me, they only way I'd stop would be if they arrested my butt. Has anyone seen ANY of this family conduct a search, organize a search, ask for help searching, etc?

Melanie
10-24-2011, 08:07 AM
This is maddening for sure. I want to know more from LE but they are professionals. I still think the phone logs have given LE the right course to head on and they are staying that course and letting the case fall as it may.

I'm not a cop, nor an FBI agent, nor an atty, but leaving the box-o'-wine bothers me.

OTOH, when the dog hit in the Anthony trunk, did they take the carpet? I don't recall seeing it in court, and the piccies showed the carpet still there. So I wonder if that's why they left the carpet in J&D's bedroom?

Just thinking out loud.

Mel

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 08:09 AM
Thank you! It was new to me since I had a busy busy weekend! I didn't get to see any news at all, even local! I didn't even know what the weather would be until this morning so I would know how to dress my kiddos for school! I'm ready for a relaxing Monday but my hot water heater went out yesterday while we were gone. :(

Did they also show the tape of the person walking near the gas station over the weekend? I can't tell if it's a man or a woman, and I really can't tell if they were carrying something or not :waitasec:

They did show the video. No way to tell if it's a man or woman or if they're carrying anything. I think it's a big nothing.

luckyme
10-24-2011, 08:10 AM
OT/ This was in the paper about zahra baker.

http://fayobserver.com/articles/2011/10/24/1132257?sac=Home :furious:

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 08:10 AM
I'm not a cop, nor an FBI agent, nor an atty, but leaving the box-o'-wine bothers me.

OTOH, when the dog hit in the Anthony trunk, did they take the carpet? I don't recall seeing it in court, and the piccies showed the carpet still there. So I wonder if that's why they left the carpet in J&D's bedroom?

Just thinking out loud.

Mel

They did take a portion of the rug from the trunk in the Anthony case.

Patty G
10-24-2011, 08:10 AM
Today Show's tour of the house.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/45014011#45014011

madge
10-24-2011, 08:12 AM
The only thing they took from the house in the search warrant seems to be items that perhaps Baby Lisa had near her body in some fashion. They evidently don't see the wine box as having anything to do with the actual crime of whatever happened to Baby Lisa. I think they know she wasn't as drunk as she is saying by interview with neighbor or boy's, OR they measured the liquor and knew it wasn't possible she was drunk enough to pass out by what was gone and they know it's not gonna matter in the end if she was drunk or not. DB says she was drunk, without a blood test to substaniate that now, other than the neighbor who will really say she was or wasn't.

I feel somethings gonna break today.

Insomnia Momma
10-24-2011, 08:12 AM
I'm not a cop, nor an FBI agent, nor an atty, but leaving the box-o'-wine bothers me.

OTOH, when the dog hit in the Anthony trunk, did they take the carpet? I don't recall seeing it in court, and the piccies showed the carpet still there. So I wonder if that's why they left the carpet in J&D's bedroom?

Just thinking out loud.

Mel

They had the car impounded so no chance of tampering after CA's initial cleaning :rolleyes: Also, they DID remove the liner and they did use it in the trial. HTH's!

josie1986
10-24-2011, 08:13 AM
OT/ This was in the paper about zahra baker.

http://fayobserver.com/articles/2011/10/24/1132257?sac=Home :furious:

"He noted that included her inconsistent statements, acknowledgment that her husband wasn't around when Zahra died"

sounds familiar :innocent:

JMO

madge
10-24-2011, 08:16 AM
Didn't follow Zahra's case here but I did follow it in the news. Poor baby.

LancelotLink
10-24-2011, 08:20 AM
They did show the video. No way to tell if it's a man or woman or if they're carrying anything. I think it's a big nothing.

Me too! The white herring.

TheTruthWillOut
10-24-2011, 08:26 AM
Hello all! Been following this sad case from day 1 and some aspects of it are eerily similar to the McCann case I have followed for the last 4.5 years.

I have fallen off the fence but have not landed yet.

The rubbishing of the cadaver dogs is SOP these days for lawyers. LE know this from previous cases.

I can only hope they have triple checked, filmed and dotted the I's and crossed the T's when deploying them.

As far as the parents story changing, it is really tricky.

LE have said, I believe, the the parents haven't sat down with them since OCT 8th? Which means any changes of story are not in official statements?

If you are innocent changing your story just makes you look guilty. This Mark Twain quote says it all:

If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything

Anyway, I'll leave it there for now and get back to reading.:websleuther:

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 08:26 AM
I can't fault DB for getting her hair done unless it comes out that she went to a spa had her hair cut and colored, had a manicure and pedicure, had her eyebrows waxed, and got a massage. That would be over the top. I bet that a friend did it for her to make her feel better.

justbeachy
10-24-2011, 08:30 AM
As of yesterday I was on the fence for the very first time, but I have to wonder....if my child was missing, the last thing on my mind would be getting my hair done. That doesn't have anything to do with baby Lisa or anything, but the story that she passed out drunk the night Lisa went missing, coupled with her getting her hair done now, in my opinion portrays her as not having her baby as her priority. Again, I'm not accusing her of anything. For all I know, the media people could have offered to make her over for free or something, but still. I'd be too busy living at the police station and searching for my baby to care about such things.

My gut tells me that someone else is driving the beauty bus for DB. I think it's part of a PR/attorney/image consultant campaign to improve public opinion about DB. Her darker color and cleaner cut are an attempt to make her look better and, of course, someone who looks better could NEVER kill their baby! Don't ya know? Spin, baby, spin!

LancelotLink
10-24-2011, 08:36 AM
In the Today Show video, at the start I noticed a cat walking in front of the house.

Also, I am having a problem with the three witnesses who claim to have seen a man walking with a baby. Seems there have only been two, that morphed into three because in my opinion, the husband who saw a man on a perpendicular street, wants nothing to do with having his face on camera. I recall the wife early on saying her husband saw this and told her about it, asking if she thought they should call police, meaning, IMO, "YOU call them." Even in that first report, it appeared the husband did not want to be seen or heard from, even keeping his back to the tv cameras. Now, it appears that the wife was with him. But each time I listen to her talk about this, she never really says SHE saw anything. Until today, on the video she said "We seen." Hmm.

vlpate
10-24-2011, 08:38 AM
My gut tells me that someone else is driving the beauty bus for DB. I think it's part of a PR/attorney/image consultant campaign to improve public opinion about DB. Her darker color and cleaner cut are an attempt to make her look better and, of course, someone who looks better could NEVER kill their baby! Don't ya know? Spin, baby, spin!

I just watched the ABC clip of the vigil last night - when is DB going to stop making this about her? I GET IT, she's upset, but at some point a mother puts on her big girl panties and fights back! Someone TOOK YOUR BABY, put your face up close and personal to the camera and demand they bring her back.

Just turns my stomach already. Who cares about her hair???

CathyinTexas
10-24-2011, 08:39 AM
Today Show's tour of the house.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/45014011#45014011

Regardless of my opinion about the mom's part in baby Lisa's disappearance, I think her attorney Joe Tacopina is doing a passionate job of defending her. He also said in another interview that if he thought she was guilty he would not represent her.

Patty G
10-24-2011, 08:40 AM
October 24, 2011
Good Morning America

http://gma.yahoo.com/video/news-26797925/baby-lisa-exclusive-tour-of-irwin-house-27046940.html

Melanie
10-24-2011, 08:41 AM
Me too! The white herring.

I was a bit taken aback by the attorney on the Today show. He said the decomp hit by the doggie was much ado about nothing, but IMHO seemed to be placing great weight in the white blob shown on the video.

So the decomp hit is just junk science/garbage - but the white blob should be found immediately?

:waitasec:

MOO

Mel

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 08:41 AM
[QUOTE=LancelotLink;7273913]In the Today Show video, at the start I noticed a car walking in front of the house.

Haha! Do you mean cat? if not this case is getting more and more strange by the day.

LancelotLink
10-24-2011, 08:42 AM
Regardless of my opinion about the mom's part in baby Lisa's disappearance, I think her attorney Joe Tacopina is doing a passionate job of defending her. He also said in another interview that if he thought she was guilty he would not represent her.

Yoran. Van. Der. Sloot.
Pfft.

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 08:43 AM
I was a bit taken aback by the attorney on the Today show. He said the decomp hit by the doggie was much ado about nothing, but IMHO seemed to be placing great weight in the white blob shown on the video.

So the decomp hit is just junk science/garbage - but the white blob should be found immediately?

:waitasec:

MOO

Mel

That's what defense lawyers do. Spin, spin, spin. It does get under my skin.

LancelotLink
10-24-2011, 08:44 AM
[QUOTE=LancelotLink;7273913]In the Today Show video, at the start I noticed a car walking in front of the house.

Haha! Do you mean cat? if not this case is getting more and more strange by the day.

Yes! I finally fixed it. :floorlaugh: So, is this a cat who had kittens and she is looking for one high and low? Oh, the IORNY. :floorlaugh:
I did not take part in the wine test last night or I probably would have meant car.

vlpate
10-24-2011, 08:44 AM
That's what defense lawyers do. Spin, spin, spin. It does get under my skin.

And when there's a trial they blast the media and the public for trying their client in the media. Go figure.

nursebeeme
10-24-2011, 08:44 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/baby-lisa-exclusive-tour-irwin-house-14801121

matou
10-24-2011, 08:46 AM
I'm not a cop, nor an FBI agent, nor an atty, but leaving the box-o'-wine bothers me.

OTOH, when the dog hit in the Anthony trunk, did they take the carpet? I don't recall seeing it in court, and the piccies showed the carpet still there. So I wonder if that's why they left the carpet in J&D's bedroom?

Just thinking out loud.

Mel

I really don't think it isn't the same box of wine from Oct 3-4th. I drink box red wine and I open up the box to squeeze out the last bits. The spout looks like it's still sticking out of the box still. JMO

josie1986
10-24-2011, 08:46 AM
I was a bit taken aback by the attorney on the Today show. He said the decomp hit by the doggie was much ado about nothing, but IMHO seemed to be placing great weight in the white blob shown on the video.

So the decomp hit is just junk science/garbage - but the white blob should be found immediately?

:waitasec:

MOO

Mel

i wonder if he'd be disregarding the decomp hit if it was somewhere else outside the home or anywhere that would prove they were innocent.....doubt it JMO

total BS IMO :banghead:

LancelotLink
10-24-2011, 08:50 AM
That's what defense lawyers do. Spin, spin, spin. It does get under my skin.
Snark alert.
He's been talking to the CMA Foundation? Now called Canine Malfeasance Associates, president Cindy Anthony, nurse of decomp and all around expert on everything. VP, Jose Baez, who wanted to be treasurer, but Cindy said NO. And Dr. Fairgrieve, who has testified in two court cases that dogs can't tell the handler what he smells, and therefore...

greenpalm
10-24-2011, 08:50 AM
Surely they would take the whole box as evidence though? I can't see them pouring the rest of the wine into measuring cups at the house, rather than taking the whole thing to the lab to weigh, fingerprint, check serial number matches receipt, then measure the amount left.

regarless of it it was full or empty, I cannot fathom them not taking it, especially at the last search.

Either this atty is right about LE not being thorough, or they set up the wine cask there to reinforce the blackout possibility.

Either way, I don't like it.

I'm not a cop, nor an FBI agent, nor an atty, but leaving the box-o'-wine bothers me.

OTOH, when the dog hit in the Anthony trunk, did they take the carpet? I don't recall seeing it in court, and the piccies showed the carpet still there. So I wonder if that's why they left the carpet in J&D's bedroom?

Just thinking out loud.

Mel
This kind of thinking is why Casey Anthony was not convicted. It's the CSI effect. I know it's easy for us arm chair detectives to want every part of the story to be admitted into evidence. But think of the size of the warehouse! The box of wine itself or how much is or is not in it is not evidence of a crime. In fact, the box is not even proof that DB drank or was drunk. I'm sure prosecutors, in the event of a trial would want that information. (or frankly, so would defense attorneys in the event an outside abductor is charged). But it would have been photographed, information recorded, and statements taken from DB. (i believe she told LE from the beginning that she was drunk. That's why they were suspicious) unless there is some reason to suspect the wine was given to Lisa. That might be a reason to keep the box. But there is no reason to think so. all just MOO

Like this
The only thing they took from the house in the search warrant seems to be items that perhaps Baby Lisa had near her body in some fashion. They evidently don't see the wine box as having anything to do with the actual crime of whatever happened to Baby Lisa. I think they know she wasn't as drunk as she is saying by interview with neighbor or boy's, OR they measured the liquor and knew it wasn't possible she was drunk enough to pass out by what was gone and they know it's not gonna matter in the end if she was drunk or not. DB says she was drunk, without a blood test to substaniate that now, other than the neighbor who will really say she was or wasn't.

I feel somethings gonna break today.


As of yesterday I was on the fence for the very first time, but I have to wonder....if my child was missing, the last thing on my mind would be getting my hair done. That doesn't have anything to do with baby Lisa or anything, but the story that she passed out drunk the night Lisa went missing, coupled with her getting her hair done now, in my opinion portrays her as not having her baby as her priority. Again, I'm not accusing her of anything. For all I know, the media people could have offered to make her over for free or something, but still. I'd be too busy living at the police station and searching for my baby to care about such things.

Isn't it three weeks tomorrow? You know I think I'd be chasing my own tail, and I could easily see, having exhausted my resources, getting my hair done. Maybe at a friend's suggestion, or just as a distraction to briefly get my mind to pause. I'd be frantic if my child were missing, but after three weeks of frantic, i would say to myself, "Slow down stop and think" and a new do might be just the thing to clear my head. It only takes a hour or something. It might make me feel better and give me a fresh start.


I can't fault DB for getting her hair done unless it comes out that she went to a spa had her hair cut and colored, had a manicure and pedicure, had her eyebrows waxed, and got a massage. That would be over the top. I bet that a friend did it for her to make her feel better.

Either way. I'm very suspicious of this mother, but it's not a new hair do that did it.

MOO

Patty G
10-24-2011, 08:53 AM
GMA-a bit more video of lawyer in the home. Shows a bit of the basement, master br and boys br. She also points out LE emptied the wine box to compare what was left to what was consumed. ok dokie then!

:waitasec: Is the attorney assuming the box was emptied out by LE to compare what was left in the box?

You would think LE would have taken the box of wine with them as evidence.

BetteDavisEyes
10-24-2011, 08:54 AM
Havent been on here for a couple of days. Had to take a break. What rug did LE take then? Not bedroom? moo

Same here. Sadly, I feel like this is no longer about finding Lisa - alive or dead. It's "showtime" for the attorneys who are representing parents who probably aren't telling the truth about what happened to their daughter. No arrests or charges yet but the case is being tried in the media and a potential jury pool dazed and confused wiith skewed facts and details :furious:

Donjeta
10-24-2011, 08:56 AM
Regardless of my opinion about the mom's part in baby Lisa's disappearance, I think her attorney Joe Tacopina is doing a passionate job of defending her. He also said in another interview that if he thought she was guilty he would not represent her.

He represented Joran Van der Sloot though. Which leads me to think that either he is not quite as selective with his clients as he says or maybe he just isn't that good judge of a character. MOO.

Donjeta
10-24-2011, 08:57 AM
:waitasec: Is the attorney assuming the box was emptied out by LE to compare what was left in the box?

You would think LE would have taken the box of wine with them as evidence.

But, but, but, it couldn't have been emptied by the mother and her friend :crazy:

We want deniability in case her drunken state turns against her at some point.

grandmaj
10-24-2011, 08:58 AM
Why the spin? I have to continue to ask myself this question in these cases. Why not maintain quiet counsel and wait for the investigation to be completed rather than spin stories?

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 09:00 AM
Snark alert.
He's been talking to the CMA Foundation? Now called Canine Malfeasance Associates, president Cindy Anthony, nurse of decomp and all around expert on everything. VP, Jose Baez, who wanted to be treasurer, but Cindy said NO. And Dr. Fairgrieve, who has testified in two court cases that dogs can't tell the handler what he smells, and therefore...

Good one! :crazy:

SuziQ
10-24-2011, 09:00 AM
I didn't watch the shows yet this morning. Since LE didn't take the bedroom carpet. Does anyone have a guess on what carpet was removed? TIA.

daisy7
10-24-2011, 09:03 AM
I didn't watch the shows yet this morning. Since LE didn't take the bedroom carpet. Does anyone have a guess on what carpet was removed? TIA.

They did not take any carpet with them.

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 09:03 AM
More on Today show now

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 09:05 AM
I didn't watch the shows yet this morning. Since LE didn't take the bedroom carpet. Does anyone have a guess on what carpet was removed? TIA.

I'm pretty sure that it came from the shed, but they didn't actually take it.

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 09:05 AM
More on Today show now

Nevermind. It was just a quick blurb.

Cazzie
10-24-2011, 09:06 AM
Why the spin? I have to continue to ask myself this question in these cases. Why not maintain quiet counsel and wait for the investigation to be completed rather than spin stories?
JMO but a defense attorney would do this to sway public opinion and taint a potential jury pool.

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 09:08 AM
Why the spin? I have to continue to ask myself this question in these cases. Why not maintain quiet counsel and wait for the investigation to be completed rather than spin stories?

I'm guessing to taint the jury pool, plant doubt ahead of time? But then they often complain that they can't get an impartial jury because of all of the media coverage.

TallCoolOne
10-24-2011, 09:09 AM
Regardless of my opinion about the mom's part in baby Lisa's disappearance, I think her attorney Joe Tacopina is doing a passionate job of defending her. He also said in another interview that if he thought she was guilty he would not represent her.I am trying so very hard to be a good girl here, it's painful actually. I feel that JT is about as full of ***** as a Christmas goose. There, that's all I dare say right now without getting a really big Time Out!

Patty G
10-24-2011, 09:09 AM
Why the spin? I have to continue to ask myself this question in these cases. Why not maintain quiet counsel and wait for the investigation to be completed rather than spin stories?

The "in-thing" now-a-day is to start spinning as soon as you can.

Abby Normal
10-24-2011, 09:11 AM
I know some people have posted in other threads that they don't care about DB getting her hair done, but it infuriates me!!! (not their opinion, but the fact that she did it) I watched the Today Show segment and when it was over, I was still fuming about it.

It's totally cool for you to be irritated by that. To each their own. :) Something I would think about though, think about Mark Klaas or any other "model" parent. Unless they suddenly started looking like Jesus, or random hippie band members, then they were going to the barber more than once during their ordeal.

I can't think of any reason there should be a double standard for men and women. If innocent men can continue to function and tend to their appearances, then so can women IMO.

MOO, and like I said- it's totally cool if it bothers you. I think sometimes we just question women for things that men get away with no problem.

TallCoolOne
10-24-2011, 09:14 AM
:waitasec: Is the attorney assuming the box was emptied out by LE to compare what was left in the box?

You would think LE would have taken the box of wine with them as evidence.
Evidence of what though? That they had legally purchased wine? I don't understand what everyone thinks they are to do with any leftover wine. It isn't proof of a crime, it isn't against the law, it's just leftover wine. What am I missing?

Kat
10-24-2011, 09:15 AM
He represented Joran Van der Sloot though. Which leads me to think that either he is not quite as selective with his clients as he says or maybe he just isn't that good judge of a character. MOO.

OMG Donjeta, I busted out laughing so hard haha. Sorry I just had to say that! I'll go back to reading :)

ExpectingUnicorns
10-24-2011, 09:16 AM
http://kctv.images.worldnow.com/images/564284_G.jpg

Where is Baby Lisa?

Patty G
10-24-2011, 09:17 AM
They did not take any carpet with them.

:waitasec: Sure looks like they took a carpet!

Abby Normal
10-24-2011, 09:18 AM
Wonder why their lawyer needs to lie each time, saying cadaver dogs probably just hit on diapers smell (they don't)- if they are not guilty of doing anything wrong wouldn't they want to pursue that finding, not try to deny it?

"No comment" would have made a whirlwind of condemnation. I mean, honestly, she's doing the job she as hired to do. What else can she do?

And, as I discovered in the HRD thread- there are two spots in my home where cadaver dogs would hit. Now that I know that they hit on blood, I'm (again) waiting for more information from LE to make any assumptions. Cadaver dog hit is a great reason to investigate more fully, but what we find when we investigate will give us more information with which to work than the hit alone.

CarrieBean
10-24-2011, 09:19 AM
Evidence of what though? That they had legally purchased wine? I don't understand what everyone thinks they are to do with any leftover wine. It isn't proof of a crime, it isn't against the law, it's just leftover wine. What am I missing?


Measure it to determine how drunk she would have been according to her size/weight?

Just throwing something out there.

Patty G
10-24-2011, 09:20 AM
Evidence of what though? That they had legally purchased wine? I don't understand what everyone thinks they are to do with any leftover wine. It isn't proof of a crime, it isn't against the law, it's just leftover wine. What am I missing?

I am ONLY going by what the attorney was stating regarding what LE may have done. I don't feel the wine is evidence, but based on the attorney saying LE did a comparison to see how much wine was left, my post ended coming from there.

LancelotLink
10-24-2011, 09:21 AM
Why the spin? I have to continue to ask myself this question in these cases. Why not maintain quiet counsel and wait for the investigation to be completed rather than spin stories?

I agree. They have nothing else, so they attack LE as if they were the enemy.
My opinion of these lawyers and PI is pretty low, but we saw this before. We know that ABC, NBC, etc. pay for pictures and videos, so the family is making flipping wadges of cash with each new story. This is a win-win for everyone but LE and Lisa. The lawyers and media keep this "bizarre" case in the news, adding a new twist everyday. Ratings, spin, cha-ching.

Also, I noticed early on that they stopped using the name Pumpkin Pie and DB used the "brand" Baby Lisa that reporters were beginning to use. That hit me like a punch in the gut.

Add to that, the strange way DB would thank the reporters for coming, like you thank someone for showing up at a funeral. It sounded strange then and still does, to me. I think she has been playing to the media and this is becomming the newest in realty TV.

and plese, let me add, I don't find it strange fora parent to thank the media for being there and getting the story out. It was the WAY it was said that pinged for me.

lil momma
10-24-2011, 09:23 AM
Does anyone know that the neighbor claiming to see a man walking around with a baby, wasn't the same neighbor that was over the house that night? Who is the neighbor that was over drinking with Deborah that night?

sorry if i missed it :)

Abby Normal
10-24-2011, 09:24 AM
I was a bit taken aback by the attorney on the Today show. He said the decomp hit by the doggie was much ado about nothing, but IMHO seemed to be placing great weight in the white blob shown on the video.

So the decomp hit is just junk science/garbage - but the white blob should be found immediately?

:waitasec:

MOO

Mel

I agree that he's over focussing on the white blob bit. Unless they have some great technology that makes things clearer- it's completely useless IMO.

butwhatif?
10-24-2011, 09:24 AM
This kind of thinking is why Casey Anthony was not convicted. It's the CSI effect.


RSBM:
LOL....why do peeps always refer to CSI? I can't stand that show. :maddening:

I understand they can't take everything, but I had also wondered out loud here why doing blood alcohol testing wasn't SOP. I guess I'm still hung up on that, and the wine cask would be the next best thing.

And my concern has everthing to do with KC not being convicted. That was my concern from the day I started following that case.

You can never have too much evidence when it comes to justice. Didn't they say, 'leave no stone unturned'?

MOO

matou
10-24-2011, 09:27 AM
Sorry, I need to go back a few days to ask a question. On Saturday night, Joe Tacopina was on Judge Jeanine on FOX at 9 pm. He stated a few things:

JI called 911 from his phone.
JI went across the street to the neighbour. WHY? Why not go the the house next door, where the person lives who was in his house with his kids to ask what happened? At this point, it's unclear to me if DB also ran out and went across the street as well. Judge J interrupts Joe while he's speaking. He mentions DB shaking on the floor (in her house?).

So why did JI go across the road? This is really bugging me.

justbeachy
10-24-2011, 09:27 AM
It's totally cool for you to be irritated by that. To each their own. :) Something I would think about though, think about Mark Klaas or any other "model" parent. Unless they suddenly started looking like Jesus, or random hippie band members, then they were going to the barber more than once during their ordeal.

I can't think of any reason there should be a double standard for men and women. If innocent men can continue to function and tend to their appearances, then so can women IMO.

MOO, and like I said- it's totally cool if it bothers you. I think sometimes we just question women for things that men get away with no problem.

Respectfully, this has nothing to do (for me) with a man vs woman thing. This has to do with it being, IMO, a cut vs a makeover. Above I posted my opinions about this being a strategic move vs a necessity. I didn't word it that way in my previous post, but you get the gist.

I stand by my opinion that her actions infuriate me. Trimming your bangs to keep them out of your eyes is one thing. To me, this isn't that. You are entitled to your opinion as well. As you said, to each their own.

Lera213
10-24-2011, 09:27 AM
I will not watch ABC ever again no matter what!

Patty G
10-24-2011, 09:28 AM
Thinking outside of the box for a second, the carpet that was shown being carried out of the house may have been on top of the carpet in the parent's bedroom.

LancelotLink
10-24-2011, 09:28 AM
:waitasec: Sure looks like they took a carpet!

I have seen pics of them taking it out. I have seen pics of them taking it back down the driveway. Heck, I tried to watch the live stream, but for the longest, they IMO asked the cameras to train only on the back yard, so I have no idea what they took from the party rooms in the basement. Voddka? Who knows?

Abby Normal
10-24-2011, 09:29 AM
Evidence of what though? That they had legally purchased wine? I don't understand what everyone thinks they are to do with any leftover wine. It isn't proof of a crime, it isn't against the law, it's just leftover wine. What am I missing?

They would have no need for wine in a court room. Photos of the box, and what was remaining would be plenty if they wanted to establish consumption. It's not scientifically accurate though, since two were drinking and we don't know if any spilled. So they would more likely use her own media confession if they wanted to establish consumption. And likely they have her admitting to drinking in interrogation too. I don't think they need the wine itself.

LancelotLink
10-24-2011, 09:29 AM
I will not watch ABC ever again no matter what!

Somenoe plese refresh my memory. Was it disclosed if and which network was paying for WildBS?

Kat
10-24-2011, 09:30 AM
If the carpet being taken out of the house in the picture was being taken into evidence wouldn't it have been covered in plastic? Usually they will cover it with something to keep from getting transfer on it before they can process it?

Just some thoughts, I have no clue.

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 09:30 AM
Sorry, I need to go back a few days to ask a question. On Saturday night, Joe Tacopina was on Judge Jeanine on FOX at 9 pm. He stated a few things:

JI called 911 from his phone.
JI went across the street to the neighbour. WHY? Why not go the the house next door, where the person lives who was in his house with his kids to ask what happened? At this point, it's unclear to me if DB also ran out and went across the street as well. Judge J interrupts Joe while he's speaking. He mentions DB shaking on the floor (in her house?).

So why did JI go across the road? This is really bugging me.

Not sure where I read or heard it, but JI said he went to the neighbor's to see if Lisa was there.

LancelotLink
10-24-2011, 09:31 AM
Sorry, I need to go back a few days to ask a question. On Saturday night, Joe Tacopina was on Judge Jeanine on FOX at 9 pm. He stated a few things:

JI called 911 from his phone.
JI went across the street to the neighbour. WHY? Why not go the the house next door, where the person lives who was in his house with his kids to ask what happened? At this point, it's unclear to me if DB also ran out and went across the street as well. Judge J interrupts Joe while he's speaking. He mentions DB shaking on the floor (in her house?).

So why did JI go across the road? This is really bugging me.

Good question.

jjenny
10-24-2011, 09:31 AM
I agree that he's over focussing on the white blob bit. Unless they have some great technology that makes things clearer- it's completely useless IMO.

The video of this blob is of such poor quality I don't think it can be enhanced much. So I am frankly amazed press is calling the blob a man-how do they know the blob isn't female?

Patty G
10-24-2011, 09:34 AM
Sorry, I need to go back a few days to ask a question. On Saturday night, Joe Tacopina was on Judge Jeanine on FOX at 9 pm. He stated a few things:

JI called 911 from his phone.
JI went across the street to the neighbour. WHY? Why not go the the house next door, where the person lives who was in his house with his kids to ask what happened? At this point, it's unclear to me if DB also ran out and went across the street as well. Judge J interrupts Joe while he's speaking. He mentions DB shaking on the floor (in her house?).

So why did JI go across the road? This is really bugging me.

I may have missed that the neighbor who was at the house lives next door, did DB say the neighbor lived next door?

Elley Mae
10-24-2011, 09:34 AM
The video of this blob is of such poor quality I don't think it can be enhanced much. So I am frankly amazed press is calling the blob a man-how do they know the blob isn't female?

Females know not to wear white after Labor Day? j/k

daisy7
10-24-2011, 09:34 AM
:waitasec: Sure looks like they took a carpet!

AFAIK, they took a carpet out, unrolled it on the driveway, and then took it back inside. I believe that pic. is showing them taking in back inside.

Just K
10-24-2011, 09:35 AM
I didn't pick up anything new except that it was Franzia boxed wine and that the box was emptyIt will be interesting if that is a prop and that the real box was taken by LE, in a search, or if they were unable to locate the actual box bought on Monday, October 3, 2011. Certainly, LE took pics of every room in the house on their first search. Many things are different now. In the first inside report, after the crime scene tape came down, the camera panned to the window in the computer room. The screen, unbent, was learning against the wall and just to the right of the window. In Yesterday's video, with the attorney, CS, it was not there anymore.

kljohnson0458
10-24-2011, 09:35 AM
I still want to know WTH this neighbor is that was drinking on the stoop with DB. Why is she either not being talked to or anything she says being released.

Insomnia Momma
10-24-2011, 09:35 AM
The video of this blob is of such poor quality I don't think it can be enhanced much. So I am frankly amazed press is calling the blob a man-how do they know the blob isn't female?

I agree, you also can't tell if the "blob" is carrying anything either. Although, if those are woods they haven't searched that the "blob" came out of LE could search there.

This whole thing is such a cluster mess.

jjenny
10-24-2011, 09:36 AM
I still want to know WTH this neighbor is that was drinking on the stoop with DB. Why is she either not being talked to or anything she says being released.

Police has not released much at all. I am sure they have talked to her extensively.

Just K
10-24-2011, 09:37 AM
GMA-a bit more video of lawyer in the home. Shows a bit of the basement, master br and boys br. She also points out LE emptied the wine box to compare what was left to what was consumed. ok dokie then!

Right, but is that the same box or is it just a prop for this walk through?

curiousc
10-24-2011, 09:37 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/23/us/missouri-missing-girl/?hpt=ju_c1
Surveillance video from night girl disappeared turned over to authorities

The station manager, Anuj Arora, said it's unusual to see anyone walking at that time of night in the region.

Arora, who shared the video with CNN on Sunday, said he also turned it over to authorities investigating Lisa's disappearance in hopes it will help in the search for the girl.

jjenny
10-24-2011, 09:37 AM
I agree, you also can't tell if the "blob" is carrying either. Although, if those are woods they haven't searched that the "blob" came out of LE could search there.

This whole thing is such a cluster mess.

I don't think the blob is carrying anything. Its "hands" are swinging back and forth.

CharlestonGal
10-24-2011, 09:37 AM
I don't see the hair cut & color as a big deal. If a jury thought nothing of FCA running around for 31 days partying, shopping & cooking for the boys, participating in hot body contests, renting videos, getting a tattoo, stealing money from friends, and sleeping with whoever would have her, I doubt a jury would think much of a simple haircut & color.

As long as DB maintains she got drunk with a friend and doesn't know what happened to Lisa, she's home free. Nowadays the jury is going to require video from three different angles of DB harming/killing Lisa and disposing of the body, DNA and fingerprints on the murder weapon, and seven impeccable eyewitnesses to the crime.

I don't think DB has a thing to worry about as long LE doesn't find Lisa's body and DB sticks to the basic story of, "I was drinking with a friend, got a little too drunk, and I don't know what happened after that."

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 09:40 AM
Not sure where I read or heard it, but JI said he went to the neighbor's to see if Lisa was there.

Found it! Go to post #29 in the compare statements thread.

Elley Mae
10-24-2011, 09:40 AM
I don't see the hair cut & color as a big deal. If a jury thought nothing of FCA running around for 31 days partying, shopping & cooking for the boys, participating in hot body contests, renting videos, getting a tattoo, stealing money from friends, and sleeping with whoever would have her, I doubt a jury would think much of a simple haircut & color.

As long as DB maintains she got drunk with a friend and doesn't know what happened to Lisa, she's home free. Nowadays the jury is going to require video from three different angles of DB harming/killing Lisa and disposing of the body, DNA and fingerprints on the murder weapon, and seven impeccable eyewitnesses to the crime.

I don't think DB has a thing to worry about as long LE doesn't find Lisa's body and DB sticks to the basic story of, "I was drinking with a friend, got a little too drunk, and I don't know what happened after that."

exactly!

Lera213
10-24-2011, 09:40 AM
Somenoe plese refresh my memory. Was it disclosed if and which network was paying for WildBS?

I have no idea but I stopped watch ABC during the CA case. :floorlaugh:

Lera213
10-24-2011, 09:42 AM
Right, but is that the same box or is it just a prop for this walk through?

If it is a prop wouldn't they be risking obstruction of justice or something? Falsifying evidence?

matou
10-24-2011, 09:45 AM
Sorry, I need to go back a few days to ask a question. On Saturday night, Joe Tacopina was on Judge Jeanine on FOX at 9 pm. He stated a few things:

JI called 911 from his phone.
JI went across the street to the neighbour. WHY? Why not go the the house next door, where the person lives who was in his house with his kids to ask what happened? At this point, it's unclear to me if DB also ran out and went across the street as well. Judge J interrupts Joe while he's speaking. He mentions DB shaking on the floor (in her house?).

So why did JI go across the road? This is really bugging me.

OK I found the video of his statement: it's posted on Oct 23rd even though this interview occurred on Oct 22nd (Saturday). Listen to everything he says especially just before 3 minute mark. Judge J asks him whether DB called her cell phones and he explains a whole bunch of confusing stuff. JI called 911 at the neighbour's house with his own phone??? Really weird. Watch it.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/justice-jeanine/index.html#/v/1233416044001/exclusive-irwin-family-attorney-responds-to-cadaver-dog-hit/?playlist_id=163706

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 09:49 AM
OK I found the video of his statement: it's posted on Oct 23rd even though this interview occurred on Oct 22nd (Saturday). Listen to everything he says especially just before 3 minute mark. Judge J asks him whether DB called her cell phones and he explains a whole bunch of confusing stuff. JI called 911 at the neighbour's house with his own phone??? Really weird. Watch it.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/justice-jeanine/index.html#/v/1233416044001/exclusive-irwin-family-attorney-responds-to-cadaver-dog-hit/?playlist_id=163706

Go to post #29 in the compare statements thread. An interview was transcribed and in that interview he says he went to the neighbor's to see if Lisa was there. Maybe when he found out that she wasn't there, he immediately called 911.

illinialum
10-24-2011, 09:49 AM
I was just listening to a Kansas City morning talk show, and they played a sound clip from Tacopina, where he claims that cadaver dogs pick up on "any human decomposition," including toe clippings and baby poo.

I'm so frustrated because after playing the clip, it was immediately followed by a clip about the surveillance video, and there was no discussion about the validity of Tacopina's claim!!

After hearing Sarx and Oriah explain cadaver dogs, I know that <modsnip> assertion is wrong, but I'd bet the majority of the listeners don't know this, and may believe that the cadaver dog hit was discredited.

Grr...

Kat
10-24-2011, 09:49 AM
Found it! Go to post #29 in the compare statements thread.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - compare the parent's statements to media here

There's your post SS.

SS and for anyone else who doesn't know. If you want to bring a post from another thread---each post has a number in the very upper right hand side.

So in this instance click on post number 29 and it will open in new window, copy URL and paste it into the post that you wish to make on another thread.

HTH someone in the future :)

ExpectingUnicorns
10-24-2011, 09:50 AM
The "image" issue is a conundrum, isn't it? When I see the family grouped together I question the selection of the "sinister" shirt because he wasn't perceptive enough about the image he may be projecting. Is is right for me to then also critique DB because she (or someone around her) is aware of her desire to have a more agreeable presence?

Aside from that, I don't think anyone who posts here gives a hoot (Sorry, WOO) whether this family is rich, poor, smart, dumb, attractive or ugly and with or without fashion sense. I believe, even though the comments are about appearance, the real rub is that of priorities. . . .

Ummm, let's see, should I go talk with the police, take more LDTs until I can pass, search everywhere even if only on my own? Or should I research attorneys, select a couple and then get my hair fixed? :waitasec: :dunno:

If image is important to the family then they should realize people see a "whole picture" that includes the actions that are visible to them as well as what they look like. It could very well be that they are taking some actions to move this case forward that we don't know about. But if that's the case then that should be the part of the "image" that's corrected ~ before anyone's appearance is even in consideration.

Obviously :cow: !!!

Kat
10-24-2011, 09:53 AM
I was just listening to a Kansas City morning talk show, and they played a sound clip from Tacopina, where he claims that cadaver dogs pick up on "any human decomposition," including toe clippings and baby poo.

I'm so frustrated because after playing the clip, it was immediately followed by a clip about the surveillance video, and there was no discussion about the validity of Tacopina's claim!!

After hearing Sarx and Oriah explain cadaver dogs, I know that Taco's assertion is wrong, but I'd bet the majority of the listeners don't know this, and may believe that the cadaver dog hit was discredited.

Grr...

For real?

Toe nail clippings? Oh that's right up there with decomposing pizza in a trunk.

Someone needs to take him to task on that claim. JMHO

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 09:54 AM
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - compare the parent's statements to media here (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7273546&postcount=29)

There's your post SS.

SS and for anyone else who doesn't know. If you want to bring a post from another thread---each post has a number in the very upper right hand side.

So in this instance click on post number 29 and it will open in new window, copy URL and paste it into the post that you wish to make on another thread.

HTH someone in the future :)

Thank you!!

LancelotLink
10-24-2011, 09:54 AM
As far as the wine box goes, we have no idea what was done or by whom.
The lawyer knows that LE is NOT talking, so she has free rein to throw out what ever she wants for public consumption. Also, she never said on the video that LE did anything. She plays word salad, allowing the viewer to infer her meaning and then take it away as fact.
She says, We believe what they did was they
drained out the wine that was left in the box so they could measure what was left and what she consumed.
Now, keep in mind this lawyer NEEDS for everyone to believe that DB was DRUNK. So drunk, she couldn't possibly have done anything to Lisa or cover up whatever happened to Lisa. Instead of asking why LE took or didn't take the wine, I ask Why is this lawyer wanting everyone to focus on the wine.

LaLaw2000
10-24-2011, 09:57 AM
Well, tomorrow will be three weeks since Baby Lisa was reported missing. I don't think anyone is going to break now.

What I hope for now is an inditement, but which of the umpteen stories is LE going to go with? There have been so many. I just have to believe that LE/FBI has all kinds of evidence we don't know about.

As for the wine box on the stove; I hope LE left it there because if DB did, that is more evidence of child endangerment. You never leave anything like that on a stove with children in the home. BUT, who knows who actually put it there.

Even though we are expecting, hoping, and praying for a break in Baby Lisa's case, it is going to hit us like a ton of bricks when it happens. It always does. I hope today is the day!

MOO

josie1986
10-24-2011, 09:59 AM
OK I found the video of his statement: it's posted on Oct 23rd even though this interview occurred on Oct 22nd (Saturday). Listen to everything he says especially just before 3 minute mark. Judge J asks him whether DB called her cell phones and he explains a whole bunch of confusing stuff. JI called 911 at the neighbour's house with his own phone??? Really weird. Watch it.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/justice-jeanine/index.html#/v/1233416044001/exclusive-irwin-family-attorney-responds-to-cadaver-dog-hit/?playlist_id=163706

how can he say the decomp hit doesn't bother him in the slightest and it doesn't fit the timeline cause the neighbour was in the house with DB until 10.30 the night lisa disappeared....but how do we know she ACTUALLY seen lisa?

"with the 2 boys in the house there isn't a senario that could happen for decomposition to start" he said something along the lines of that......now i watched a video (cant remember where i seen it) but it was from an expert in decomp and HRD dogs and he stated that decomp can be detected by dogs almost right away....now i'd like to know where he is getting his "info" on HRD dogs.

i dont even know if i'm making sense :seeya:

Quiche
10-24-2011, 10:01 AM
Iirc, NBC was linked to BS by a local reporter that was overheard on a live feed. mo

Oh, the most absurd award of the morning goes to-- Joe T.! One word: TOENAIL

:floorlaugh:

MamaK
10-24-2011, 10:01 AM
Her hair was obviously dyed to begin with so her roots were probably showing. Possibly, a family member noticed and had her go with a shade closer to her original hair so it would take a little less upkeep. Many people get their hair cut when they dye it. Her hair is still long, it's just shaped differently with layers. It might actually be easier and more convenient for her to fix now because it may lay in a certain way without her doing anything to it.

I really don't think the new 'do is a big deal. If there was no speculation concerning her involvement in her baby's disappearance, I doubt we would be having this conversation for the past, what... 12+ hours now. :waitasec: Sorry, just ready to move on...:innocent:

MOO

Wise Old Owl
10-24-2011, 10:03 AM
The "image" issue is a conundrum, isn't it? When I see the family grouped together I question the selection of the "sinister" shirt because he wasn't perceptive enough about the image he may be projecting. Is is right for me to then also critique DB because she (or someone around her) is aware of her desire to have a more agreeable presence?

Aside from that, I don't think anyone who posts here gives a hoot (Sorry, WOO) whether this family is rich, poor, smart, dumb, attractive or ugly and with or without fashion sense. I believe, even though the comments are about appearance, the real rub is that of priorities. . . .

Ummm, let's see, should I go talk with the police, take more LDTs until I can pass, search everywhere even if only on my own? Or should I research attorneys, select a couple and then get my hair fixed? :waitasec: :dunno:

If image is important to the family then they should realize people see a "whole picture" that includes the actions that are visible to them as well as what they look like. It could very well be that they are taking some actions to move this case forward that we don't know about. But if that's the case then that should be the part of the "image" that's corrected ~ before anyone's appearance is even in consideration.

Obviously :cow: !!!
ITA - at first I had to stop and read and re-read what you meant! lol Then I got the reference of "giving a hoot". So, ok, and yea you're right.

This is about priorities. And LISA should be priority NUMBER ONE!

We haven't heard or seen much of anything that this family is doing to progress this investigation and find Lisa.

The Halloween decoration, what t-shirt is worn, getting hair done doesn't really play a part in the big scheme of things - as long as the family is cooperating with LE and actively pursuing finding Lisa. From the general public's view - this isn't what they are doing. Their attorneys and spokespeople just keep getting on camera and bashing the police and "how the big bad mean detectives" accused this poor mom and brow beat her and showed her "fake evidence" and isn't that just horrible?

There was a reason LE did that. We have no clue what all LE has found (or not found), but this is what they do. When LE has a family in distress and they are pulling out all the stops to help and then that family backs up and refuses to cooperate - what is LE supposed to do then?

Every day I hope that JI and DB will go to LE/FBI and sit down and answer EVERY QUESTION they ask and answer them honestly. Its the only way we'll see Lisa brought home and bring closure to this. But they aren't. They have now gotten big fancy high priced lawyers that are running the media circuit. They speak in circles and avoid the hard questions.

I just want this baby found - one way or the other. Every morning and every night that is what I pray for. I just wonder what the parents are praying for - KWIM?

josie1986
10-24-2011, 10:03 AM
i hadn't watched the full video when i made my previous post,now im hearing him say...

"decomp can include fecal matter"

OMGGGGGGGGGG am i missing something here.....if the dog hit on "fecal matter" it would have had to have came from a person that was deceased?

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 10:03 AM
I was just listening to a Kansas City morning talk show, and they played a sound clip from Tacopina, where he claims that cadaver dogs pick up on "any human decomposition," including toe clippings and baby poo.

I'm so frustrated because after playing the clip, it was immediately followed by a clip about the surveillance video, and there was no discussion about the validity of Tacopina's claim!!

After hearing Sarx and Oriah explain cadaver dogs, I know that <modsnip> assertion is wrong, but I'd bet the majority of the listeners don't know this, and may believe that the cadaver dog hit was discredited.

Grr...

My guess is, there have been documented cases where cadaver dogs who have been shown to be reliable and are used by a law enforcement agency have hit on "decomp" sites that are feces, rotting food, toenail clippings, etc.

It stands to reason - although they're not supposed to hit on those, they have in the past and will again and could have in the Irwin's case.

Quiche
10-24-2011, 10:04 AM
Well, tomorrow will be three weeks since Baby Lisa was reported missing. I don't think anyone is going to break now.

What I hope for now is an inditement, but which of the umpteen stories is LE going to go with? There have been so many. I just have to believe that LE/FBI has all kinds of evidence we don't know about.

As for the wine box on the stove; I hope LE left it there because if DB did, that is more evidence of child endangerment. You never leave anything like that on a stove with children in the home. BUT, who knows who actually put it there.

Even though we are expecting, hoping, and praying for a break in Baby Lisa's case, it is going to hit us like a ton of bricks when it happens. It always does. I hope today is the day!

MOO

Yeah, it may have been placed there by Cyndy-- we know she put a stuffed animal in Lisa's crib. But... if it was DB, it says more than I'm drinking tonight, it also says I aint cookin'! :crazy:

MamaK
10-24-2011, 10:04 AM
how can he say the decomp hit doesn't bother him in the slightest and it doesn't fit the timeline cause the neighbour was in the house with DB until 10.30 the night lisa disappeared....but how do we know she ACTUALLY seen lisa? "with the 2 boys in the house there isn't a senario that could happen for decomposition to start" he said something along the lines of that......now i watched a video (cant remember where i seen it) but it was from an expert in decomp and HRD dogs and he stated that decomp can be detected by dogs almost right away....now i'd like to know where he is getting his "info" on HRD dogs.

i dont even know if i'm making sense :seeya:

BBM If the neighbor came over at 5:30pm and DB put Lisa in her crib at 6:40pm, then it stands to reason that the neighbor saw Lisa.

MOO

josie1986
10-24-2011, 10:05 AM
My guess is, there have been documented cases where cadaver dogs who have been shown to be reliable and are used by a law enforcement agency have hit on "decomp" sites that are feces, rotting food, toenail clippings, etc.

It stands to reason - although they're not supposed to hit on those, they have in the past and will again and could have in the Irwin's case.

but what i've read from sarx and oriah if a dog hit on a toenail or fesus,it would have had to come from a deceased person NOT someone who was alive?

lil momma
10-24-2011, 10:06 AM
Thinking outside of the box for a second, the carpet that was shown being carried out of the house may have been on top of the carpet in the parent's bedroom.

That would make sense Patty! In one of the videos, it shows the carpet that still exsits in the bedroom, near the threshold lifts fairly easily. However would LE take the time to put the furniture back in place once they removed the first roll of carpet? Also, wouldn't it be benenficial to remove all the carpet and the pad too? If the carpet was cleaned, the evidence would more than likely be on the pad, or the underneath of the pad, even the underneath of the carpet, from being soaked through (from the carpet cleaning)

Maybe the carpet came from another area of the home.

JMO :)

jjenny
10-24-2011, 10:07 AM
BBM If the neighbor came over at 5:30pm and DB put Lisa in her crib at 6:40pm, then it stands to reason that the neighbor saw Lisa.

MOO

Especially if the neighbor had dinner with DB and the children.

UMfanforever
10-24-2011, 10:09 AM
Again Everyone:

ABC or one of the other news outlets said the carpet is from the shed at the back of the house (the place Deborah didn't want to go check).

Whether or not they actually took it away or decided to bring it back, don't know.

butwhatif?
10-24-2011, 10:10 AM
Help me out here.....

If the only things listed in the search warrant were:


Multi colour comforter
Purple shorts
multi colour Disney character shirt
Glow worm toy
Cars themed blanket
Rolls of tape
Tape dispenser

Then wouldn't removal of wine have to have been listed too? Even if they just poured it down the sink afterward? From a legal standpoint I mean.

But forget the vino....


~Where did Lisa's swing go?
~Why was the dark rug from lisa's room removed from the house during the SW, allegedly not taken, but not returned to her room either? I know they have no obligation to clean up after themselves, but where did it go?
Did they just hoover it and leave it wherever?


~I don't see sheets listed on the SW, yet there are no sheets left in the crib. There is clearly a fitted sheet on the mattress after the initial search, but it's completely stripped after the SW search.

~ And since there are only sheets on DB's bed in the lastest walk-through,is it likely the comforter came from her room, not Lisa's?

I guess we also don't know what their own atty's may have taken to be tested or if they moved anything?

I noticed the monitor and some diapers on the bedside table of DB's room in this vid too.

Interesting to note the beside table diapers plus the bag of diapers and baby wipes on the floor right near where the dog allegedly hit.

Didn't JT say a decomp hit could come from dirty diapers? <insert eyeroll>
Isn't that convenient that the diapers are right there for their walk-through?

MOO

Quiche
10-24-2011, 10:12 AM
Interesting too, that Lisa's room looks fairly intact, whereas the parents bedroom looks thrashed, and the door frame has been removed (you can see the difference in paint, so there was one, imo).

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/45014011#45014011

eta: Now that I see butwhatif's post, I understand the carpet in question was Lisa's... interesting.

Abby Normal
10-24-2011, 10:14 AM
I was just listening to a Kansas City morning talk show, and they played a sound clip from Tacopina, where he claims that cadaver dogs pick up on "any human decomposition," including toe clippings and baby poo.

I'm so frustrated because after playing the clip, it was immediately followed by a clip about the surveillance video, and there was no discussion about the validity of Tacopina's claim!!

After hearing Sarx and Oriah explain cadaver dogs, I know that <modsnip> assertion is wrong, but I'd bet the majority of the listeners don't know this, and may believe that the cadaver dog hit was discredited.

Grr...

To be fair, they CAN hit on a nose bleed or injury too. I assume that there are two spots in my home that cadaver dogs would hit. All my kids are alive and accounted for, and I've only lived here 2 years. I think his point is that there are exceptions- but he can't exactly say "blood" or everyone would be going a new direction.

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 10:14 AM
Well, tomorrow will be three weeks since Baby Lisa was reported missing. I don't think anyone is going to break now.

What I hope for now is an inditement, but which of the umpteen stories is LE going to go with? There have been so many. I just have to believe that LE/FBI has all kinds of evidence we don't know about.

As for the wine box on the stove; I hope LE left it there because if DB did, that is more evidence of child endangerment. You never leave anything like that on a stove with children in the home. BUT, who knows who actually put it there.

Even though we are expecting, hoping, and praying for a break in Baby Lisa's case, it is going to hit us like a ton of bricks when it happens. It always does. I hope today is the day!

MOO

I don't understand how leaving an uncorked bottle of wine (or in this case, an open box) out in full view of children is child endangerment, especially at their ages. People who drink alcohol have open containers in their homes, and it's the rare family who has a lock on a liquor cabinet. People who drink a glass of red wine at night have the corked bottle on the kitchen counter - white wine would be corked in full view in the fridge. I'm not sure the box of wine accessable on the stove will become an issue -

mistermissy
10-24-2011, 10:14 AM
Just saw the light switches in Lisa's room on Today show. We have those kind too, they make clicking noises everytime we switch them off and on. Could this be the clicking noises the boys heard? Lights being switched off and on????

Wise Old Owl
10-24-2011, 10:15 AM
Oh and one more thing.

And this "thing" has bothered me greatly!

Concerning MSM and the coverage of this case.

WHY IN THE WORLD are they continously showing these videos and pix of Lisa when she is like 3 months old? The pic they put on the t-shirts came from those.

Lisa was MUCH bigger. Older. She was standing (if not walking - we haven't been told anything about her development so we don't even know if she was walking). Babies change rapidly and I believe its very deceiving to put a picture out there of a small infant when that "infant" is now 10 - 11 months old and is missing.

People that really don't follow these cases like we do - sit down - watch the news - see that pic of such a small infant - and then go about their business. So, if they are on the lookout for her - they are looking at small babies to see if its her. Do they not have that many pictures of her now? I've seen at least a few. PUT THOSE OUT THERE!

It just ruffles my feathers - and IMHO its deceiving the general public in what they should be looking for.

Such a shame...............

MamaK
10-24-2011, 10:16 AM
Interesting too, that Lisa's room looks fairly intact, whereas the parents bedroom looks thrashed, and the door frame has been removed (you can see the difference in paint, so there was one, imo).

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/45014011#45014011

I would imagine since the parent's room is where the "hit" from the hrd dog was, that they would tear that room apart. They probably searched Lisa's room, but LE had been in there before and (I'm assuming) didn't find much.

Abby Normal
10-24-2011, 10:17 AM
but what i've read from sarx and oriah if a dog hit on a toenail or fesus,it would have had to come from a deceased person NOT someone who was alive?

I'm pretty sure it shouldn't hit on feces at all. Decomp or not. If you go to the QA thread it is approached. They can hit on blood that came from a living being though.

LaLaw2000
10-24-2011, 10:18 AM
i hadn't watched the full video when i made my previous post,now im hearing him say...

"decomp can include fecal matter"

OMGGGGGGGGGG am i missing something here.....if the dog hit on "fecal matter" it would have had to have came from a person that was deceased?

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Well, he said he talked to the leading expert. I sure would like to know just who that was!

Fecal matter and toenails, oh my! :waitasec:

Rooster27
10-24-2011, 10:18 AM
Thinking outside of the box for a second, the carpet that was shown being carried out of the house may have been on top of the carpet in the parent's bedroom.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - LE Serves Warrant on Family Home #6

I posted this a few moments ago on the LE serves SW thread.

LancelotLink
10-24-2011, 10:19 AM
I have noticed and even remarked that DB's hair is always groomed to perfection. During the initial videos taken that next morning, she appears in pj pants, but her hair is perfect. In every interview, her hair is groomed to perfection. I find this strange since the store video has her hair simply pulled back without much effort, not as perfect as each time I have seen her after Lisa's disappearance.
I don't usually remark on anyone's appearance, but the predigious care and focus DB seems to have on her hair is remarkable in the face of what her lawyers are trying to say she is going through. A heap of trembling and sobbing...and a comb...

yllek
10-24-2011, 10:19 AM
We learned late last week that Jeremy went to work at 5:20 p.m. and got home around 3:45 a.m. (was expected home at 10 p.m.) I was so glad to have that piece of the time line.

I've been trying to keep up with all of the interviews and threads, but haven't seen it confirmed that the neighbor came over at 5:30. Did I miss it? I've been waiting for that piece of the timeline too. TIA!

Elley Mae
10-24-2011, 10:19 AM
What if someone died in the house before jeremy bought it.

UMfanforever
10-24-2011, 10:22 AM
What if someone died in the house before jeremy bought it.

The dog is trained well enough to be able to pick out fresh scent vs. scent that had been there for years.

LancelotLink
10-24-2011, 10:22 AM
Oh and one more thing.

And this "thing" has bothered me greatly!

Concerning MSM and the coverage of this case.

WHY IN THE WORLD are they continously showing these videos and pix of Lisa when she is like 3 months old? The pic they put on the t-shirts came from those.

Lisa was MUCH bigger. Older. She was standing (if not walking - we haven't been told anything about her development so we don't even know if she was walking). Babies change rapidly and I believe its very deceiving to put a picture out there of a small infant when that "infant" is now 10 - 11 months old and is missing.

People that really don't follow these cases like we do - sit down - watch the news - see that pic of such a small infant - and then go about their business. So, if they are on the lookout for her - they are looking at small babies to see if its her. Do they not have that many pictures of her now? I've seen at least a few. PUT THOSE OUT THERE!

It just ruffles my feathers - and IMHO its deceiving the general public in what they should be looking for.

Such a shame...............

And sort of gives me a feeling they don't want a 10 month old found.

MamaK
10-24-2011, 10:23 AM
Oh and one more thing.

And this "thing" has bothered me greatly!

Concerning MSM and the coverage of this case.

WHY IN THE WORLD are they continously showing these videos and pix of Lisa when she is like 3 months old? The pic they put on the t-shirts came from those.

Lisa was MUCH bigger. Older. She was standing (if not walking - we haven't been told anything about her development so we don't even know if she was walking). Babies change rapidly and I believe its very deceiving to put a picture out there of a small infant when that "infant" is now 10 - 11 months old and is missing.

People that really don't follow these cases like we do - sit down - watch the news - see that pic of such a small infant - and then go about their business. So, if they are on the lookout for her - they are looking at small babies to see if its her. Do they not have that many pictures of her now? I've seen at least a few. PUT THOSE OUT THERE!

It just ruffles my feathers - and IMHO its deceiving the general public in what they should be looking for.

Such a shame...............

I agree and it's been making me crazy. The only reason I can think is because she's in a little pink tutu and that's super cute, right? :waitasec::crazy: IMO, the public should be looking for a baby that's closer in size to an 18 month old but I've posted about that before. Lisa is big for even a 10-12 month old. I think the picture of her in the cheetah print with her hands on the glass door is probably more recent.

AlmostGone
10-24-2011, 10:24 AM
My gut tells me that someone else is driving the beauty bus for DB. I think it's part of a PR/attorney/image consultant campaign to improve public opinion about DB. Her darker color and cleaner cut are an attempt to make her look better and, of course, someone who looks better could NEVER kill their baby! Don't ya know? Spin, baby, spin!

I'm going to agree with you... I think the lawyer IMO had something to do with it...

Just K
10-24-2011, 10:24 AM
The first walk through video was within hours of the crime scene tape being taken down. In that video, we saw the screen in the family room, leaning against the window wall, we saw the tub and containers in the crib and no Pooh Bear, we saw no wine box on the stove. The family and now the lawyer and three news crews have been in that house in between the LE searches so we know that things that were there are gone and things that weren't there before are there now. One word: "STAGING"

MamaK
10-24-2011, 10:25 AM
We learned late last week that Jeremy went to work at 5:20 p.m. and got home around 3:45 a.m. (was expected home at 10 p.m.) I was so glad to have that piece of the time line.

I've been trying to keep up with all of the interviews and threads, but haven't seen it confirmed that the neighbor came over at 5:30. Did I miss it? I've been waiting for that piece of the timeline too. TIA!

It was in the People article.

UMfanforever
10-24-2011, 10:25 AM
The first walk through video was within hours of the crime scene tape being taken down. In that video, we saw the screen in the family room, leaning against the window wall, we saw the tub and containers in the crib and no Pooh Bear, we saw no wine box on the stove. The family and now the lawyer and three news crews have been in that house in between the LE searches so we know that things that were there are gone and things that weren't there before are there now. One word: "STAGING"

Hopefully LE knows that too.

UMfanforever
10-24-2011, 10:27 AM
Oh and one more thing.

And this "thing" has bothered me greatly!

Concerning MSM and the coverage of this case.

WHY IN THE WORLD are they continously showing these videos and pix of Lisa when she is like 3 months old? The pic they put on the t-shirts came from those.

Lisa was MUCH bigger. Older. She was standing (if not walking - we haven't been told anything about her development so we don't even know if she was walking). Babies change rapidly and I believe its very deceiving to put a picture out there of a small infant when that "infant" is now 10 - 11 months old and is missing.

People that really don't follow these cases like we do - sit down - watch the news - see that pic of such a small infant - and then go about their business. So, if they are on the lookout for her - they are looking at small babies to see if its her. Do they not have that many pictures of her now? I've seen at least a few. PUT THOSE OUT THERE!

It just ruffles my feathers - and IMHO its deceiving the general public in what they should be looking for.

Such a shame...............

Maybe those organizations only bought the younger pics from the parents. Yes, I assume they are making a racket on photos and videos like Casey. MOO

LaLaw2000
10-24-2011, 10:28 AM
I don't understand how leaving an uncorked bottle of wine (or in this case, an open box) out in full view of children is child endangerment, especially at their ages. People who drink alcohol have open containers in their homes, and it's the rare family who has a lock on a liquor cabinet. People who drink a glass of red wine at night have the corked bottle on the kitchen counter - white wine would be corked in full view in the fridge. I'm not sure the box of wine accessable on the stove will become an issue -

On a stove where maybe the 6 year old can turn on?? Wine is highly flammable! That is child endangerment to me. Leaving the box of wine on the stove even if there are NO children in the home is dangerous, IMO.

AlmostGone
10-24-2011, 10:28 AM
The first walk through video was within hours of the crime scene tape being taken down. In that video, we saw the screen in the family room, leaning against the window wall, we saw the tub and containers in the crib and no Pooh Bear, we saw no wine box on the stove. The family and now the lawyer and three news crews have been in that house in between the LE searches so we know that things that were there are gone and things that weren't there before are there now. One word: "STAGING"

I'm going to guess LE has lots of pictures of the house before things were moved around...

Just K
10-24-2011, 10:31 AM
Well, he said he talked to the leading expert. I sure would like to know just who that was!

Fecal matter and toenails, oh my! :waitasec:

Probably from a dead person, though.

Just K
10-24-2011, 10:35 AM
I noticed, in the screen cap of the nightstand, in DB bedroom, that the light on the baby monitor is on.

Lera213
10-24-2011, 10:35 AM
changing her hair and color could be to keep from someone maybe recognizing her from her past of present...like maybe someone who hasn't seen a picture of her yet and notices her, and remembers seeing her?

scmom
10-24-2011, 10:35 AM
I wonder who cleaned the kitchen after Debs cooked dinner? I don't see any evidence of dirty dishes, pots and pans, etc., in any video. So I guess she wasn't too drunk to clean the kitchen after dinner?

MamaK
10-24-2011, 10:37 AM
changing her hair and color could be to keep from someone maybe recognizing her from her past of present...like maybe someone who hasn't seen a picture of her yet and notices her, and remembers seeing her?

I think it would be a little late for that, imo. MOO

josie1986
10-24-2011, 10:37 AM
Probably from a dead person, though.

seems like this guy (JT) is making it up as he goes along.i mean im nowhere near an expert on HRD dogs or any other type of scent dog for that matter but from what i have read on the HRD thread i seem to know more that this "expert" he has been talking to.

MamaK
10-24-2011, 10:38 AM
I wonder who cleaned the kitchen after Debs cooked dinner? I don't see any evidence of dirty dishes, pots and pans, etc., in any video. So I guess she wasn't too drunk to clean the kitchen after dinner?

She could've started drinking while she was cleaning up.

LancelotLink
10-24-2011, 10:38 AM
On a stove where maybe the 6 year old can turn on?? Wine is highly flammable! That is child endangerment to me. Leaving the box of wine on the stove even if there are NO children in the home is dangerous, IMO.

And I was focused on the spicket thingy being within easy reach of a child.
Anyway, I truly believe this box of white wine was placed there to go along with the white herring.

Just K
10-24-2011, 10:38 AM
One more thing I noticed:
When the reporter, in this mornings "Today Show," points out where the phones supposedly were an electrical socket does not appear to be nearby.

Cappuccino
10-24-2011, 10:39 AM
I wonder who cleaned the kitchen after Debs cooked dinner? I don't see any evidence of dirty dishes, pots and pans, etc., in any video. So I guess she wasn't too drunk to clean the kitchen after dinner?

Why would she be drunk straight after dinner? She didn't start drinking till after she'd eaten, and it takes a while to get drunk.

MamaK
10-24-2011, 10:39 AM
One more thing I noticed:
When the reporter, in this mornings "Today Show," points out where the phones supposedly were an electrical socket does not appear to be nearby.

I don't think I read anywhere where she said that she was charging them. I think many of us assumed she was charging them. I could be wrong though.

Abby Normal
10-24-2011, 10:41 AM
I don't understand how leaving an uncorked bottle of wine (or in this case, an open box) out in full view of children is child endangerment, especially at their ages. People who drink alcohol have open containers in their homes, and it's the rare family who has a lock on a liquor cabinet. People who drink a glass of red wine at night have the corked bottle on the kitchen counter - white wine would be corked in full view in the fridge. I'm not sure the box of wine accessable on the stove will become an issue -

I think she meant because it's on the stove. Like it could accidentally catch fire.

AlmostGone
10-24-2011, 10:41 AM
Is anyone in the area planning on doing a search for baby Lisa? Anyone? This past weekend would of been great but that's gone, any day would be great! I'd be in the news cameras face every morning pleading for help! Makes no sense IMO... It only tells me SOMEONE knows that poor baby's dead. Sooooo sad!!!!!!

jjenny
10-24-2011, 10:42 AM
The "three independent witnesses" that claim to have seen a man with a baby. I wouldn't exactly call the first two independent-they are a husband and wife, and while wife appeared on video numerous times, we've yet to see what the husband has to say. And based on what wife has to say, the two of them (husband and wife) communicated with each other on what they have seen before ever contacting police-so not exactly independent, are they? The third one, the motorcycle guy, hasn't contacted LE for about a week. It would also be after the wife from the first couple already appeared on the news with her story. Of course "three independent" witnesses sound so much better, does it not?

Lera213
10-24-2011, 10:43 AM
It is never too late to change the appearance for one never knows who is watching what and when. Hrm also if the kidnapper did take the baby, not living in the house, and now changing your hair and color sure makes it easy for the kidnapper or someone who might find the baby to contact the family. Gee what if some one knows the kidnapper and suspects it is baby lisa but doesn't want to contact police but instead of the family. Way to go DB, way to make it easy. /sarcasm

Abby Normal
10-24-2011, 10:45 AM
I don't think I read anywhere where she said that she was charging them. I think many of us assumed she was charging them. I could be wrong though.

That is how I recalled it as well. I think someone doubted she would have her phones lined up on the counter and easy to steal. Others commented that they charge theirs there every night.

I don't think she ever claimed they were there charging, but I could be wrong.

jjenny
10-24-2011, 10:46 AM
That is how I recalled it as well. I think someone doubted she would have her phones lined up on the counter and easy to steal. Others commented that they charge theirs there every night.

I don't think she ever claimed they were there charging, but I could be wrong.

We'd have to go back and look at the interviews.

Just K
10-24-2011, 10:46 AM
When listening to attorneys, one needs to listen for incomplete comments and words like "they." If there is a statement that suggests that something could happen, one should inquire as to what circumstances that could happen. When an attorney says "they," an interviewer must ask, "who is they?" When an attorney says, "they could have done this or that," a statement like that does not mean that "they" did anything.

Just because CS says no carpet was taken does not mean that a rug or something on the carpet wasn't taken. They are out to confuse, distract and distort the facts all in an attempt to create doubt. But if their client is innocent than the facts would support that finding.

In this day an age of putting the horse before the cart and media blitzes, LE better start taping and photographing their every investigative move and do as KC LE has done; release as few details as possible except info about the missing child's looks, likes, health, and behaviors.

LancelotLink
10-24-2011, 10:51 AM
Does it no occur to JT that this man possibly was carrying out a dead baby to dispose of for the Irwin family. JMO

Or a doll.

justamommy
10-24-2011, 10:51 AM
I can't fault DB for getting her hair done unless it comes out that she went to a spa had her hair cut and colored, had a manicure and pedicure, had her eyebrows waxed, and got a massage. That would be over the top. I bet that a friend did it for her to make her feel better.

I thought the same thing. My hairdresser is also my friend and I know would do my hair for me to help me feel better. I don't find this to be a problem. She wasn't heavily made up and wasn't sporting new clothes. :seeya:

yllek
10-24-2011, 10:53 AM
It was in the People article.

Thanks MamaK - how could I have missed that while scanning the article and unloading the grocery cart? :crazy:

I wish someone would come out and say that the neighbor saw Lisa on Monday evening. I see why it can be assumed if neighbor was there at 5:30 and Lisa was reportedly put to bed at 6:40, but still not seeing any statements to confirm clearly that anyone other than Debbi say Lisa on Monday. Unless I missed something, Lisa's not in the wine video. Lisa's not said to be at dinner with the neighbor and the boys. Lisa's not said to have been playing with the boys and the neighbor girl at any time that night. Just Debbi seeing her for the last time standing in her crib sometime shortly after 6:40 p.m.

Maybe nothing, just kinda nagging at me. Maybe it will come up in MSM today.

Just K
10-24-2011, 10:53 AM
We'd have to go back and look at the interviews.
No need, I never heard her say she was charging them either. But if she does say that then an electrical outlet, nearby, would be necessary.

Abby Normal
10-24-2011, 10:53 AM
changing her hair and color could be to keep from someone maybe recognizing her from her past of present...like maybe someone who hasn't seen a picture of her yet and notices her, and remembers seeing her?

Considering the "friends" that spoke out against her already claimed she looked completely different, I find that unlikely. They said her hair was a lot darker, she was thin, and had large chests. She said "She was QUITE cute". So IOW, she already looks a lot different from her past according to some. MOO

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 10:57 AM
changing her hair and color could be to keep from someone maybe recognizing her from her past of present...like maybe someone who hasn't seen a picture of her yet and notices her, and remembers seeing her?

Her hair cut and color are so subtle that I didn't even notice. She was wearing ponytails before so often, and honestly her hair color looks about the same to me. (I say "about" the same because I trust you all in your observation that her hair is now a different color, but in her photos with baby Lisa and her photos right now, her hair color looks actually identical to me).

peeples
10-24-2011, 10:57 AM
:waitasec: Sure looks like they took a carpet!

We have carpeting in our home, but also have very large area rugs, maybe it's a huge area rug and not the actual carpeting...

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 10:58 AM
:waitasec: Sure looks like they took a carpet!

They carried the carpet around, apparently. In a MSM article, it was stated that carpet actually was in the shed, they took it out, and put it back. No carpet is listed in the items taken from the home, I don't believe.

Just K
10-24-2011, 11:00 AM
About JT, he might want to carefully study all the video interviews of DB & JI. What he is saying now about DB being a quivering ball on the floor is not what either one of them said in the beginning. They both said they ran around screaming Lisa's name. Their screaming woke the boys who then started crying. Then, IIRC, they both ran outside and DB flagged down the Police Car.

So, NO, DB never said she was on the floor in a quivering ball. (RE: JT disputing that DB said she didn't check the yard because she was afraid of what she might find.)

Note to print interviewers: Tape the interviews so that no one can say you took the info out of context.

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 11:01 AM
Does anyone know that the neighbor claiming to see a man walking around with a baby, wasn't the same neighbor that was over the house that night? Who is the neighbor that was over drinking with Deborah that night?

sorry if i missed it :)

I don't know if you ever got an answer, but no, they're two different women. MSM has slipped up and reported both their names, and they aren't the same.

scmom
10-24-2011, 11:01 AM
I don't think she was drunk when she cooked dinner, nor when the kitchen was cleaned. My point was really more toward trying to define the timeline. So she went to the store, bought items, came home and cooked dinner, cleaned the kitchen, then went outside on the stoop, and started, or continued, drinking with the neighbor. The last I heard, Debs last saw Lisa at "6:40". So I guess she "got drunk and maybe blacked out" sometime between 6:40 pm and 10:30 pm. She must have been really sucking it down.

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 11:01 AM
I thought the same thing. My hairdresser is also my friend and I know would do my hair for me to help me feel better. I don't find this to be a problem. She wasn't heavily made up and wasn't sporting new clothes. :seeya:

It's my mother's answer to every crisis. And my grandmother, who was having chest pain, actually stopped to have her hair done while on the way to the hospital! She actually drove herself and it turned out she did in fact have a heart attack! :seeya:

Patty G
10-24-2011, 11:01 AM
Here is a picture of the kitchen counter. There is a microwave on one end, and what appears to be a electric can opener under the cabinet or a radio, so there must be an outlet nearby to charge the cellphones, IF the cellphones were charging at that time.

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 11:04 AM
I don't think she was drunk when she cooked dinner, nor when the kitchen was cleaned. My point was really more toward trying to define the timeline. So she went to the store, bought items, came home and cooked dinner, cleaned the kitchen, then went outside on the stoop, and started, or continued, drinking with the neighbor. The last I heard, Debs last saw Lisa at "6:40". So I guess she "got drunk and maybe blacked out" sometime between 6:40 pm and 10:30 pm. She must have been really sucking it down.

I'm starting to think it was a convenient blackout because she remembers going into the boys room before she went to bed to see if they wanted to sleep with her. But she can't remember checking on a sick baby?? I've been going back and forth between SODDI and the fence, but the cadaver dog hit and the supposed blackout are REALLY bothering me.

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 11:04 AM
I don't think she was drunk when she cooked dinner, nor when the kitchen was cleaned. My point was really more toward trying to define the timeline. So she went to the store, bought items, came home and cooked dinner, cleaned the kitchen, then went outside on the stoop, and started, or continued, drinking with the neighbor. The last I heard, Debs last saw Lisa at "6:40". So I guess she "got drunk and maybe blacked out" sometime between 6:40 pm and 10:30 pm. She must have been really sucking it down.

I have a little question about the timeline, too. I've read she began cooking dinner for her sons and the neighbor at around 5:30, but people have assumed that meant the neighbor was there at that time. I'm not sure we can tell when the neighbor arrived - it might have been after 6:40, maybe 5:30, I don't know.

She also has said recently that she put Lisa down at 6:40 and then checked on her briefly after that, some have speculated around 7 p.m. to lay her back down from a standing position in the crib.

MamaK
10-24-2011, 11:07 AM
I don't think she was drunk when she cooked dinner, nor when the kitchen was cleaned. My point was really more toward trying to define the timeline. So she went to the store, bought items, came home and cooked dinner, cleaned the kitchen, then went outside on the stoop, and started, or continued, drinking with the neighbor. The last I heard, Debs last saw Lisa at "6:40". So I guess she "got drunk and maybe blacked out" sometime between 6:40 pm and 10:30 pm. She must have been really sucking it down.

I think we have to take the degree of how drunk she was with a grain of salt. In the MK interview she said that it was a possiblity that she blacked out. Also, regarding the change in the timeline of whether she checked on baby Lisa at 10:30pm. I was left with the impression that she thought that she had checked on Lisa but she couldn't be sure because she had been drinking. If she was completely blacked out hammered that night, she would have still been drunk when the cops were called at 0400. Certainly, LE could have given her a breathalizer at that point. If LE didn't, then that is just strange. :waitasec:

nursebeeme
10-24-2011, 11:07 AM
http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20539461,00.html

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 11:07 AM
I'm starting to think it was a convenient blackout because she remembers going into the boys room before she went to bed to see if they wanted to sleep with her. But she can't remember checking on a sick baby?? I've been going back and forth between SODDI and the fence, but the cadaver dog hit and the supposed blackout are REALLY bothering me.

I'm confused about why posters think she would lie about blacking out. To me, that's pretty incriminating, and for her to admit it takes a little chink out of her story. It puts into question her perceptions that evening, and opens the possibility that she observed and forgot what happened to L.

I don't understand why the posters who are the most sure she is guilty believe that she is lying that she blacked out to make herself appear innocent. It does just the opposite - IMHO - it ads a dimension of unreliability to her story.

nursebeeme
10-24-2011, 11:09 AM
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/10/24/new-development-surveillance-video-in-baby-lisa-case-reveals-man-carrying-baby-on-night-irwin-went-missing/

just on foxnews insider

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 11:11 AM
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/10/24/new-development-surveillance-video-in-baby-lisa-case-reveals-man-carrying-baby-on-night-irwin-went-missing/

just on foxnews insider

Is this new video? Or yesterday's video being presented as new?

BTW, they've got the "pants" wrong - it was a white shirt, not white pants the witnesses reported. The headline is certainly riveting - you can't make out a "baby" in yesterday's news, but if there IS video of a man walking around in the wee hours with a baby in the area, that's extremely significant. IMHO.

Peliman
10-24-2011, 11:12 AM
I'm pretty sure it shouldn't hit on feces at all. Decomp or not. If you go to the QA thread it is approached. They can hit on blood that came from a living being though.

Depends on their training though, some will and some won't depending on the dogs training.

Just K
10-24-2011, 11:12 AM
http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/nbc-get-its-first-look-inside-the-irwin-home

Mountain Kat, you were right there was an aluminum bat near the dresser and there are TWO Shotguns.

Nefriahaia
10-24-2011, 11:13 AM
Is this new video? Or yesterday's video being presented as new?

BTW, they've got the "pants" wrong - it was a white shirt, not white pants the witnesses reported. The headline is certainly riveting - you can't make out a "baby" in yesterday's news, but if there IS video of a man walking around in the wee hours with a baby in the area, that's extremely significant. IMHO.

Maybe it wasn't even a baby he was carrying.

josie1986
10-24-2011, 11:13 AM
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/10/24/new-development-surveillance-video-in-baby-lisa-case-reveals-man-carrying-baby-on-night-irwin-went-missing/

just on foxnews insider

as far as i was aware i thought the witnesses had seen a man wearing a white shirt...not white pants? actually i had only read the guy on the motorcycle said it was a guy in a white shirt....is my mind playing tricks on me :crazy:

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 11:14 AM
I'm confused about why posters think she would lie about blacking out. To me, that's pretty incriminating, and for her to admit it takes a little chink out of her story. It puts into question her perceptions that evening, and opens the possibility that she observed and forgot what happened to L.

I don't understand why the posters who are the most sure she is guilty believe that she is lying that she blacked out to make herself appear innocent. It does just the opposite - IMHO - it ads a dimension of unreliability to her story.

Maybe because she's feeling guilty about something that happened and she can't face it. And I'm not one of the posters who are sure that she's guilty.

nursebeeme
10-24-2011, 11:14 AM
the reporter mis reported it would seem.. as he was saying "white pants" they show the video clip of a white shirt (lol)

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 11:16 AM
Depends on their training though, some will and some won't depending on the dogs training.

This is GROSS, but babies can get a rotavirus that makes their feces smell like death. I guess adults can get it too, but it's memorable to me because my babies all had bouts with stomach viruses, and the doc would actually ask, does the stool smell like a dead animal. And it did, too.

Just throwing that out there.

Just K
10-24-2011, 11:17 AM
In this morning Today Show, with Peter Alexander, we did see a black & white cat roaming about. I wonder if the cat is a prop, too. Have any neighbors ever seen that cat before?

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 11:18 AM
the reporter mis reported it would seem.. as he was saying "white pants" they show the video clip of a white shirt (lol)

Wow, it's the same video? (I couldn't get it to play). That headline is REALLY misleading - holy cow.

Rooster27
10-24-2011, 11:19 AM
http://foxnewsinsider.com/2011/10/24/new-development-surveillance-video-in-baby-lisa-case-reveals-man-carrying-baby-on-night-irwin-went-missing/

just on foxnews insider

is this about the blob again, lost patience while it was loading but the text above the video seems to be the "same old same old" from yesterday.

Um....did the wife of the witness husband that we have yet to see, say the man carrying the baby had white pants on? Is this the game of telephone now, or is this accurate. I have heard white t-shirt, but i didn't think white pants.

"??????? anyone, anyone....."

Wise Old Owl
10-24-2011, 11:21 AM
I'm confused about why posters think she would lie about blacking out. To me, that's pretty incriminating, and for her to admit it takes a little chink out of her story. It puts into question her perceptions that evening, and opens the possibility that she observed and forgot what happened to L.

I don't understand why the posters who are the most sure she is guilty believe that she is lying that she blacked out to make herself appear innocent. It does just the opposite - IMHO - it ads a dimension of unreliability to her story.
The black out thing for me is this:

DB never says FOR SURE that she blacked out. She's asked "could you have blacked out" and she says "its possible". HUH? :waitasec:

Either you black out or you don't. How could it be "possible". Either you remember when you finally wake up or you don't. There is no grey area with a black out. If she did, in fact, black out, then why isn't she saying - "yes, when JI came home and woke me up - I couldn't remember anything - not even how I got in bed or what time". Not a circumventing of the question by a "its possible" response.

JMHO

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 11:22 AM
is this about the blob again, lost patience while it was loading but the text above the video seems to be the "same old same old" from yesterday.

Um....did the wife of the witness husband that we have yet to see, say the man carrying the baby had white pants on? Is this the game of telephone now, or is this accurate. I have heard white t-shirt, but i didn't think white pants.

"??????? anyone, anyone....."

I think they both said dark pants - the neighbor woman, and the motorcycle guy. It looks like Fox is just misreporting.

We always reach a point in these stories where we know more than the reporters - disconcerting to see major news networks report things that we here know is inaccurate.

nursebeeme
10-24-2011, 11:24 AM
Another national media outlet, with large budgets and resources, is reporting a lead in the Lisa Irwin investigation that once again, police deny.

ABC News claims Kansas City, Mo. police are looking at surveillance video from a nearby gas station, video ABC says may support the theory that Lisa Irwin was abducted from her home in the middle of the night.

However, when FOX 4 asked KCMO Police about the report and the video, police responded with an email to us, which indicated they consider these national news theories and investigations rogue and amateur, if not unhelpful.

Surveillance video obtained by ABC News comes from a BP gas station near the Irwin house. It shows a man emerging from the woods at about 2:30 a.m. although it doesn't appear he is carrying a baby.

Capt. Steve Young, Public Information Officer with the police department responded to the latest national news theory with the following email:

email snip:

"I know you have to ask, but I cannot comment on details and don't want to even try keeping up with media freelance investigations."



http://www.kplr11.com/news/wdaf-theories-in-lisa-irwin-disappearance-20111023,0,5063646.story

Peliman
10-24-2011, 11:25 AM
This is GROSS, but babies can get a rotavirus that makes their feces smell like death. I guess adults can get it too, but it's memorable to me because my babies all had bouts with stomach viruses, and the doc would actually ask, does the stool smell like a dead animal. And it did, too.

Just throwing that out there.

Hah, should have been more clear, I'm speaking about the dogs hitting on blood, some will and some wont, depending on their training. It apparently depends on what LE is looking for.

A dog that hits on blood will also hit on any band-aid, tampon, smear or test tube of blood, imagine searching a city dump with a cadaver dog that hits on blood. Most are trained not to and a hit will generally be backed up by other dogs. I will always refer to Oriah and sarx though. It's all in the training.

I know nothing of or if dogs hit on baby carp.

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 11:25 AM
The black out thing for me is this:

DB never says FOR SURE that she blacked out. She's asked "could you have blacked out" and she says "its possible". HUH? :waitasec:

Either you black out or you don't. How could it be "possible". Either you remember when you finally wake up or you don't. There is no grey area with a black out. If she did, in fact, black out, then why isn't she saying - "yes, when JI came home and woke me up - I couldn't remember anything - not even how I got in bed or what time". Not a circumventing of the question by a "its possible" response.

JMHO

I have to admit in my past I've gotten together with girlfriends and had too much wine, and that's how blackouts appear to the person - they don't know whether they had one unless they're told or shown something they should be able to remember but don't. It's not clear that is the case with her - so she wouldn't know whether she'd blacked out or not.

As you drink more and more, ironically, you can have blackouts with less alcohol and they become frequent with episodes of drinking. Brain damage.

Unless she is shown or told something she did or said that she can't remember, it's unclear to her whether she blacked out or not. Sorry this is confusing - what I'm saying is no one "remembers" that they blacked out - it's a blacked out piece of their evening.

nursebeeme
10-24-2011, 11:26 AM
is this about the blob again, lost patience while it was loading but the text above the video seems to be the "same old same old" from yesterday.

Um....did the wife of the witness husband that we have yet to see, say the man carrying the baby had white pants on? Is this the game of telephone now, or is this accurate. I have heard white t-shirt, but i didn't think white pants.

"??????? anyone, anyone....."

it is about what developed yesterday.. but it was just on the news (this is the live msm coverage thread) ..

Just K
10-24-2011, 11:29 AM
IF DB did blackout then she would remember nothing from the time of the blackout until she woke up. That would include her son getting into her bed with the kitten and that being because he had a nightmare.

She can't have it both ways. Either she blacked out or she didn't. It is just another excuse for supposedly not hearing anything.

About those phones, if she really did borrow a phone from her father or, his father or his grandfather. Wouldn't that be because that phone did have service. It's all a shell game.

Marah
10-24-2011, 11:29 AM
IF that man in the video was exiting the woods without the baby, they better check those woods AGAIN. Cause it would be part of the duhfense if Lisa is found there that the "man" put her there.

dog.gone.cute
10-24-2011, 11:30 AM
Thinking outside of the box for a second, the carpet that was shown being carried out of the house may have been on top of the carpet in the parent's bedroom.


:rocker: I agree ... I was thinking the same thing ...

:waitasec: "speculating" here ... could the parents have "switched up" some carpet / rugs in the house ... :innocent: you know, to make it look like LE did not take carpet ..

So the parents / attorneys can SPIN their "story" ?

MOO ...

Peliman
10-24-2011, 11:32 AM
Eye witness accounts can get sketchy, especially after time passes. It's not unusual to mix up colors of clothing after some time has passed or the insertion of certain information by another witness and yes your eye can play tricks on you and what you witness. Can you tell me what you had for dinner on Tuesday, two weeks ago?

MamaK
10-24-2011, 11:33 AM
I have to admit in my past I've gotten together with girlfriends and had too much wine, and that's how blackouts appear to the person - they don't know whether they had one unless they're told or shown something they should be able to remember but don't. It's not clear that is the case with her - so she wouldn't know whether she'd blacked out or not.

As you drink more and more, ironically, you can have blackouts with less alcohol and they become frequent with episodes of drinking. Brain damage.

Unless she is shown or told something she did or said that she can't remember, it's unclear to her whether she blacked out or not. Sorry this is confusing - what I'm saying is no one "remembers" that they blacked out - it's a blacked out piece of their evening.

I agree. She could rememeber some things and be fuzzy or not really remember other things. I partied A LOT in college. Sometimes, I would remember the weirdest things, like dancing with friends to a certain song, but I wouldn't remember kissing some strange guy in a corner. lol Completely embarrasing and I'm never running for office so hopefully the little ones never find pictures. lol :innocent: :floorlaugh:

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 11:33 AM
IF DB did blackout then she would remember nothing from the time of the blackout until she woke up. That would include her son getting into her bed with the kitten and that being because he had a nightmare.

She can't have it both ways. Either she blacked out or she didn't. it is just another excuse for supposedly not hearing anything.

About those phones, if she really did borrow a phone from her father or, his father or his grandfather. Wouldn't that be because that phone did have service. It's all a shell game.

I think you might be confusing "blacked out" and "passed out". You can have parts of your evening "black out" in your memory, and still be walking around and talking and as your BAL goes up and down, you can have parts you do remember interspersed with parts you don't. And you have no way to retrieve the parts you don't remember, unless there is evidence. (How did I get this huge cut on my arm, where is my car, who took me home, where is my bracelet) and then you can go on to remember later things in the evening. OR, you can remember things that are more memorable than just routine things like whether you turned out the lights or locked the door.

And let me tell you what, it's EMBARRASSING to have to reveal all this, it's humiliating. A part of my past that's best left long in the past. So i imagine for DB it is also humiliating.

nursebeeme
10-24-2011, 11:35 AM
http://www.kctv5.com/story/15859553/new-surveillance-video-may-help-in-the-search-for-more-clues

video here says that there IS a lot of foot traffic in the area (towards the end).. per people who live near that area

dog.gone.cute
10-24-2011, 11:35 AM
The video of this blob is of such poor quality I don't think it can be enhanced much. So I am frankly amazed press is calling the blob a man-how do they know the blob isn't female?


BBM: I agree ... very poor quality of the "BLOB" ...

MOO ... So 3 weeks later this "video" surfaces ... how "convenient" :waitasec:

MOO ... I think the parents / attorneys are "grasping for straws" ...


:ufo:

Camille
10-24-2011, 11:36 AM
As a hairstylist for 14 years I know that there are people in this world that think that just getting your hair done will make everything all better. A woman could lose her entire family in a house fire and be neglecting her appearance as she grieves and at some point in time someone who cares about her is going to insist that she go and get her hair done and it's going to make her feel so much better. They may even drag her kicking and screaming to a stylist.

Generally they do tend to relax and put their concerns away for the short period of time that they are at the salon and when a person is under tons of stress even an hour of a break from some of that stress is a huge break for them.

Besides, if she wasn't keeping herself up people would be saying what a slob she was and that she probably didn't take any better care of Lisa than she did herself.:floorlaugh:

tehcloser
10-24-2011, 11:36 AM
Eye witness accounts can get skethy, especially after time passes. It's not unusual to mix up colors of clothing after some time has passed or the insertion of certain information by another witness and yes your eye can play tricks on you and what you witness. Can you tell me what you had for dinner on tuesday, two weeks ago?

Yes I can.......it was a neighbors birthday and we had steak. :great:

curiousjo
10-24-2011, 11:41 AM
5 PM DB bought wine at grocery store
5:20 PM Home & JI leaves for night shift
5:30-6:30 DB cooking dinner, cleaning kitchen
6:40 PM
-Neighbor & daughter arrive for dinner
-Baby Lisa placed in bed
7PM Baby Lisa standing up in bed -Last seen?
10:30 PM Neighbor leaves & states lights in home went out
1030 PM - 3:30 AM 5 long hours! What happened?
--------------------
12 AM Siting by neighbors of man in his late 30's- early 40's wearing white T-shirt & black pants - carrying baby clad in diaper - walking down street from direction of DB house
2:30 AM Rumor of text to DB cell phone "I'm ready when you are"
(I would think LE would know who sent the text- rumor has it from brother)
4 AM 2nd Siting of man carrying baby 4 miles away by highway /grave yard

-------------------------------------------------
Cadaver dogs hit on scent on floor by DB bed. IF that was due to a deceased Baby Lisa, it generally takes 2.5-3 hours for decomposition to be detected by these dogs. So, Baby Lisa would have passed away by 9:30 PM at the latest, if the man was carrying her at midnight.
----When did JI, neighbor and boys last see Baby Lisa?

mysticrose
10-24-2011, 11:41 AM
I wasn't sure where to put this, this is sad :(. Cleo Jones is missing, he is 73 years old, he went looking for Baby Lisa believing she was his grandaughter.
He has Alzheimer's, he is diabetic and he also has high blood pressure, and has been missing since Wed. 19th, he is from Ferguson, Mo.

I started a thread for him here:

MO Cleo Jones 73, MSG Oct. 19, 2011 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

and here is the article:

http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-national/police-looking-for-73-year-old-who-went-searching-for-baby-lisa-irwin

Peliman
10-24-2011, 11:41 AM
Yes I can.......it was a neighbors birthday and we had steak. :great:

How many fingers am I holding up.. ;)

Hi-teh :rose:

pinkfly
10-24-2011, 11:42 AM
I am trying so very hard to be a good girl here, it's painful actually. I feel that JT is about as full of ***** as a Christmas goose. There, that's all I dare say right now without getting a really big Time Out!

Not coming to your house for Christmas dinner......mine will be full of stuffing.

alwaysonmymind
10-24-2011, 11:44 AM
Eye witness accounts can get skethy, especially after time passes. It's not unusual to mix up colors of clothing after some time has passed or the insertion of certain information by another witness and yes your eye can play tricks on you and what you witness. Can you tell me what you had for dinner on tuesday, two weeks ago?

Tuesday = Taco Tuesday at our local taco joint :crazy:

Now Monday, Wednesday, Thursday etc.... are a blurrrrrr!!!

Karmaa
10-24-2011, 11:46 AM
About JT, he might want to carefully study all the video interviews of DB & JI. What he is saying now about DB being a quivering ball on the floor is not what either one of them said in the beginning. They both said they ran around screaming Lisa's name. Their screaming woke the boys who then started crying. Then, IIRC, they both ran outside and DB flagged down the Police Car.

So, NO, DB never said she was on the floor in a quivering ball. (RE: JT disputing that DB said she didn't check the yard because she was afraid of what she might find.)

Note to print interviewers: Tape the interviews so that no one can say you took the info out of context.

Why do these have to be mutually exclusive? She could have jumped up and run around the house, run out and flagged down the cops, and then collapsed into a quivering ball on the floor. (After all, she does have an anxiety disorder of some kind). My guess is that if she did that, it was after police were there and she realized that the baby was gone, in which case, LE would be able to confirm that. If they ever confirm/deny anything.

We shouldn't jump to the conclusion that something is a lie if there is a logical explanation for it.

mistermissy
10-24-2011, 11:47 AM
Prayers Lisa is found today.

Re: Experiment last night, I'm none for the worse, no headache at all. Considering that bottle was $4 or close to it, if I drank to get smashed it would evidently take a lot and I'd not spend it for it.

madgeThank you for taking one for the team! My DH says tonight you have to do it with wine and anti-anxiety meds:crazy:

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 11:49 AM
The black out thing for me is this:

DB never says FOR SURE that she blacked out. She's asked "could you have blacked out" and she says "its possible". HUH? :waitasec:

Either you black out or you don't. How could it be "possible". Either you remember when you finally wake up or you don't. There is no grey area with a black out. If she did, in fact, black out, then why isn't she saying - "yes, when JI came home and woke me up - I couldn't remember anything - not even how I got in bed or what time". Not a circumventing of the question by a "its possible" response.

JMHO

That's not my experience with blackouts. And sad to say, I do have experience with blackouts. You literally don't remember whether you had one - it's a blank place in your memory. The thing is, when you drink what she drank - not horribly much, IMHO, she will remember things and not remember others, and won't know what she doesn't remember.

People who drink often (she's pretty much said she does) will experience these as blank parts that unless someone points it out to her or it becomes obvious by physical evidence that she missed something, she won't know whether she had a black out.

Hopefully others who had a bit of a party past will chime in here. : (

alwaysonmymind
10-24-2011, 11:49 AM
The video of this blob is of such poor quality I don't think it can be enhanced much. So I am frankly amazed press is calling the blob a man-how do they know the blob isn't female?

It looks like Big Foot to me..... :innocent:

And seriously 'walking from a wooded area'? It looks like someone walking alongside the road. jmo

Mountain_Kat
10-24-2011, 11:54 AM
That's not my experience with blackouts. And sad to say, I do have experience with blackouts. You literally don't remember whether you had one - it's a blank place in your memory. The thing is, when you drink what she drank - not horribly much, IMHO, she will remember things and not remember others, and won't know what she doesn't remember.

People who drink often (she's pretty much said she does) will experience these as blank parts that unless someone points it out to her or it becomes obvious by physical evidence that she missed something, she won't know whether she had a black out.

Hopefully others who had a bit of a party past will chime in here. : (

You get flashes of things you might recall. But your memory is notoriously unreliable. Several years ago I got trashed at a Christmas party. Kept having flashes of calling my mother in law and saying awful things to her. Finally, I forced myself to break down and call my mother in law to find out if I had in fact done that. Nope, never called her. But I was pretty sure that I had. Same christmas party...Hubby told me later that I had danced with his boss. NO memory at all of that.

So, in my limited blackout experience, I'd have to say memory is just flat out unreliable.

Dr.Fessel
10-24-2011, 11:54 AM
Has anyone taken credit for finding the white blob video?

mistermissy
10-24-2011, 11:56 AM
The first walk through video was within hours of the crime scene tape being taken down. In that video, we saw the screen in the family room, leaning against the window wall, we saw the tub and containers in the crib and no Pooh Bear, we saw no wine box on the stove. The family and now the lawyer and three news crews have been in that house in between the LE searches so we know that things that were there are gone and things that weren't there before are there now. One word: "STAGING"

ITA. I think the wine being left out is a future DT "normalizing" the box of wine drinking and "adult time" at the Bradley/Irwin household to a future jury pool.

Mountain_Kat
10-24-2011, 11:56 AM
Has anyone taken credit for finding the white blob video?

Leonard Nimoy, I think. ;)

Amster
10-24-2011, 11:56 AM
So....ABC is working for the defense? So sad and disheartening....how far reaching is it? Do they pay witnesses? For "exclusives"? Do people who post for the defense or ABC on the blogs get paid? DB and JI hit the jackpot. Little Lisa seems to have been forgotten in the full blitz to defend DB and trash LE.

AnaTeresa
10-24-2011, 11:57 AM
That's not my experience with blackouts. And sad to say, I do have experience with blackouts. You literally don't remember whether you had one - it's a blank place in your memory. The thing is, when you drink what she drank - not horribly much, IMHO, she will remember things and not remember others, and won't know what she doesn't remember.

People who drink often (she's pretty much said she does) will experience these as blank parts that unless someone points it out to her or it becomes obvious by physical evidence that she missed something, she won't know whether she had a black out.

Hopefully others who had a bit of a party past will chime in here. : (

Blacking out definitely does not mean passing out. Unfortunately, when you're black out drunk, you're still up and active - you just don't remember it the next day. You may get bits and pieces of memory back, but there are gaps gone. You have no idea what you did, but you weren't passed out.

There's a lot of conflating of blacked out with passed out, but those are two separate things, at least from my experience and that of my friends. And yes, we have all grown up since then!

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 11:58 AM
So....ABC is working for the defense? So sad and disheartening....how far reaching is it? Do they pay witnesses? For "exclusives"? Do people who post for the defense or ABC on the blogs get paid? DB and JI hit the jackpot. Little Lisa seems to have been forgotten in the full blitz to defend DB and trash LE.

It doesn't appear to me that they're working for the defense or prosecution. They're investigating. I'm not sure how asking for video from businesses in the area is working for the defense - and IMHO LE should have been on that from day 1. It's a little concerning that a TV station got coverage before LE asked for it - after weeks of that opportunity.

Thank goodness someone is turning over every stone.

frankie069
10-24-2011, 11:58 AM
The black out thing for me is this:

DB never says FOR SURE that she blacked out. She's asked "could you have blacked out" and she says "its possible". HUH? :waitasec:

Either you black out or you don't. How could it be "possible". Either you remember when you finally wake up or you don't. There is no grey area with a black out. If she did, in fact, black out, then why isn't she saying - "yes, when JI came home and woke me up - I couldn't remember anything - not even how I got in bed or what time". Not a circumventing of the question by a "its possible" response.

JMHO

And to take this a little further, I myself have blacked out on more than one occasion from drinking and I can tell you with 100% certainty, if you try and wake me up a couple of hours later you either arent going to be able to or I am going to be still extremely drunk. Usually after a blackout the next morning I wake up feeling drunk still. IMHO she was not drunk nor did she black out. This whole thing smells of a set up on DB AND JI's part.. No way they cannot both be involved in this. He knows something.

ClueMeIn
10-24-2011, 11:59 AM
After drinking 5, 12 oz glasses of wine, one tends to blackout...I am not saying DB drank that much...just my own personal joke. LOL!

However, you know that there are empty spaces in your evening. Like if you go to change your clothes, and remember being in the bedroom, but don't remember walking in the bedroom...that is a blackout. You do know that there are pieces missing, so you do know that you blacked out.

Now if she blacked out, after passing out, she may just think she was sleeping.

Amster
10-24-2011, 12:01 PM
It doesn't appear to me that they're working for the defense or prosecution. They're investigating. I'm not sure how asking for video from businesses in the area is working for the defense - and IMHO LE should have been on that from day 1. It's a little concerning that a TV station got coverage before LE asked for it - after weeks of that opportunity.

Thank goodness someone is turning over every stone.

LE never had this tape? Never saw it before? I missed that part.

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 12:02 PM
LE never had this tape? Never saw it before? I missed that part.

Exclusively obtained from the business for their news station, is how it was presented.

No, I don't think LE saw this video before it was discovered by the business owner and the reporter doing good investigative journalism. There was a line in there somewhere (I don't want to have to go back and find it, so I'll just say IMHO) that the video has now been turned over to LE.

alwaysonmymind
10-24-2011, 12:03 PM
So....ABC is working for the defense? So sad and disheartening....how far reaching is it? Do they pay witnesses? For "exclusives"? Do people who post for the defense or ABC on the blogs get paid? DB and JI hit the jackpot. Little Lisa seems to have been forgotten in the full blitz to defend DB and trash LE.

And NBC was allowed access to the home last night after the prayer vigil.....
Joe on NBC Today this morning also......

IMO, they are milking this for all they can.

Velouria
10-24-2011, 12:03 PM
Hah, should have been more clear, I'm speaking about the dogs hitting on blood, some will and some wont, depending on their training. It apparently depends on what LE is looking for.

A dog that hits on blood will also hit on any band-aid, tampon, smear or test tube of blood, imagine searching a city dump with a cadaver dog that hits on blood. Most are trained not to and a hit will generally be backed up by other dogs. I will always refer to Oriah and sarx though. It's all in the training.

I know nothing of or if dogs hit on baby carp.


Dogs only hit on baby pee or poop in the Anthonys' backyard, doncha know. :innocent:

CharlestonGal
10-24-2011, 12:04 PM
That's not my experience with blackouts. And sad to say, I do have experience with blackouts. You literally don't remember whether you had one - it's a blank place in your memory. The thing is, when you drink what she drank - not horribly much, IMHO, she will remember things and not remember others, and won't know what she doesn't remember.

People who drink often (she's pretty much said she does) will experience these as blank parts that unless someone points it out to her or it becomes obvious by physical evidence that she missed something, she won't know whether she had a black out.

Hopefully others who had a bit of a party past will chime in here. : (

I've never had a blackout personally, but I used to be a drug and alcohol abuse counselor and have spoken to hundreds of people who have. Many people do not understand the term "blackout". What it means is that something (typically a drug) interferes with the brain's memory function. The person is typically behaving normally, functioning, talking, cooking or anything else, just fine. The problem is that the drug short circuits the part of the brain responsible for transferring short term memory into longterm storage. As a result, that span of time does not get transferred into longterm memory and is not retrievable anymore. A blackout can span as little as a few minutes or many hours.

Also, people do not behave abnormally during a blackout. The person is perfectly aware of what they are doing during the blackout, carry on normal conversations, function at work even. It is later that it becomes apparent that that span of time did not make the transition into longterm memory.

It is not the same as "passing out." Passing out means the person went to sleep or became unconscious. They are not walking around.

Hope that helps.

In da Middle
10-24-2011, 12:05 PM
In this morning Today Show, with Peter Alexander, we did see a black & white cat roaming about. I wonder if the cat is a prop, too. Have any neighbors ever seen that cat before?
All this hoopla about the cat is driving me nuts. Yes, the cat is a neighborhood cat. I can tell you which house it resides. Stray cats, while not an everyday thing, are not a rarity here. Stray dogs too. My kids would have taken in any stray they found if they thought they could get away with it.

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 12:06 PM
And NBC was allowed access to the home last night after the prayer vigil.....
Joe on NBC Today this morning also......

IMO, they are milking this for all they can.

Well that's how news works. They have to sell their ad space, and providing news content that the public watches is how to do it.

It's a hot story. The more indepth coverage they can offer (an interview with their attorney, footage of the vigil, an exclusive look inside the home) the more viewers they will have.

frankie069
10-24-2011, 12:06 PM
It doesn't appear to me that they're working for the defense or prosecution. They're investigating. I'm not sure how asking for video from businesses in the area is working for the defense - and IMHO LE should have been on that from day 1. It's a little concerning that a TV station got coverage before LE asked for it - after weeks of that opportunity.

Thank goodness someone is turning over every stone.

I have to say that once again LE isnt telling us everything as they shouldnt tell us every thing that is going on. I really feel that no matter how many times you might hear them come on TV saying they dont know this or that, that they do know a lot more than they are saying. If you let a suspect not think they are a suspect they are going to screw up. That to me is what they are waiting for, on top of whatever they are doing behind the scenes.

The only thing I am confused about and not happy about it how they arent able to question the parents on what they found in the house. No where have I heard that the parents have gone back to the police station for more questioning after this search warrant. Please someone correct me if I am wrong. If a cadaver dog gets a hit, then why isnt someone being arrested. I am also confused as to how the floor wasnt taken apart and the wood taken if thats what they had to do. This is like putting a puzzle together with half the pieces missing or half the pieces belonging to another puzzle to throw you off. But you are so right, everyone is saying the same thing. What about LISA. She has gotten lost in this shuffle. Even the media talks about the parents and not Lisa anymore. She has become that forgotten child already. Maybe we should have a thread on here on what can be done to find that child. Forget about the parents for now, Lisa holds the key. Maybe we need more people from that area on here to see if they are willing to go out and search places for her the police havent. The NG seemed to have been called in for one day and one search only. Seems to be they would have been put to good use walking that river bed and searching the landfill. LE needs to start from square one again and re-search everything with as many dogs as they can get their hands on. That baby is out there. We need to find her.

Just K
10-24-2011, 12:07 PM
Why do these have to be mutually exclusive? She could have jumped up and run around the house, run out and flagged down the cops, and then collapsed into a quivering ball on the floor. (After all, she does have an anxiety disorder of some kind). My guess is that if she did that, it was after police were there and she realized that the baby was gone, in which case, LE would be able to confirm that. If they ever confirm/deny anything.

We shouldn't jump to the conclusion that something is a lie if there is a logical explanation for it.

The point is that the lawyer is making statements that directly refute both the taped interview statements of DB & JI as well as their statements in the People Interview.

He needs to listen to everything they have said since the beginning and every little change in their rendition of that evening. What the lawyer says ought to be in line with what the client has stated.

Even if, at any time after DB reported Lisa missing, DB was on the floor quivering, it does not mean that when she flagged down police and gave them the run down, of the evenings events, that she did not say, "No, I didn't look there...because i was afraid of what I might find."

Remember lawyers always take things out of context. I would believe JT if he weren't refuting the details as they were stated by his clients.

In addition, I believe at some point she was a quivering mess but that doesn't preclude the fact that she spoke to LE, OUTSIDE, when they arrived.

Sigh Sister
10-24-2011, 12:08 PM
Now if she blacked out, after passing out, she may just think she was sleeping.

Ha! :crazy:

JeannaT
10-24-2011, 12:09 PM
I have to say this.

I really am on the fence with the facts, but I am pulling VERY HARD that Deborah is innocent. That way, Baby Lisa is most likely out there and can be found alive and well. I celebrate every piece of evidence that appears to lead toward a kidnapping, and I cringe at news that something has been uncovered that points in the direction of Deborah's guilt.

Not because I'm a Deborah supporter. Because I'm a Lisa supporter, and hope every day they find that sweet darling baby.

So I do get frustrated when sometimes on this board posters seem more welcoming, and more ready to believe damning news against Deborah than they are welcoming of news that maybe she was kidnapped.

Nannn
10-24-2011, 12:09 PM
A few random thoughts about DB's drinking and possible blackout..1: You don't buy boxes of wine if you plan on having a relaxing glass of wine or two with a neighbor after the chores of being a Mom are basically finished. You purchase boxes of wine because you drink a LOT and you drink OFTEN, because it's cheap and there's a LOT of it. 2: Someone with a higher tolerance does not pour a "typical" glass of wine (5-6 ounces) they fill that glass half or 3/4 full. From the looks of the wine glasses in that one picture (the 2nd house, not their own) those wine glasses look to be 18- 20 ounce wine glasses (in a restaurant, you would "normally pour 5-6 ounces in them- when at home, you'd fill those bad boys up at least halfway..8-10 ounces) 3: I knew a woman who "used" her cleaning time as drinking time (justified it to herself somehow..just fyi she passed away from cirosis of the liver 8 years ago) So DB's house and kitchen being clean does not mean anything IMOO.. 4: I know another person who was pulled over and the cop was shocked at how she could be "functioning" and so coherent with her blood level at .24 and she personally told me that she had drunk at least 12 beers and has perfect recollection of all that occurred the entire evening and the conversation/arrest with the police afterwards. (Yes this person was/is an alcoholic, on the wagon now) So, in all this rambling (I am a bartender/restaurant mgr) DB's "blackout" is questionable, IF she is a regular, heavy drinker..her tolerance level would be much higher than the average persons', no matter what the blood alcohol charts say. I cannot say she IS a regular drinker with a high tolerance, but if a police officer were to ask my "professional opinion" about it (which I realize is worth nothing lol), I would say she is a regular (probably heavy) drinker with a high tolerance for alcohol. No words on what any of this could mean to anything related to this case but just because she drank possibly up to 40 ounces of wine (she said she had 5 glasses), does not mean she was "incapacitated" She could have been in a functioning state, albeit a drunk one.

Velouria
10-24-2011, 12:10 PM
I was just listening to a Kansas City morning talk show, and they played a sound clip from Tacopina, where he claims that cadaver dogs pick up on "any human decomposition," including toe clippings and baby poo.

I'm so frustrated because after playing the clip, it was immediately followed by a clip about the surveillance video, and there was no discussion about the validity of Tacopina's claim!!

After hearing Sarx and Oriah explain cadaver dogs, I know that <modsnip> assertion is wrong, but I'd bet the majority of the listeners don't know this, and may believe that the cadaver dog hit was discredited.

Grr...

If that's the case, then the dogs will hit ought to hit on Tacopina's defense theory, too. :mad: Toenail clippings? Please.

Just K
10-24-2011, 12:14 PM
All this hoopla about the cat is driving me nuts. Yes, the cat is a neighborhood cat. I can tell you which house it resides. Stray cats, while not an everyday thing, are not a rarity here. Stray dogs too. My kids would have taken in any stray they found if they thought they could get away with it.

Where I come from...very few outdoor cats anymore...too many diseases from fleas, tics, mosquitoes and ferals. I just wouldn't put it passed Def Attorneys to make sure a cat gets on film. I won't get into why members are concerned about the whole addition of the kitten in the bed thing...we have a whole thread for it. But it has bothered MANY of us.