"The Cult of Darlie"

[Jeana (DP)]

Here's a link to the Dallas Observer article about the supporters of Darlie Routier:

The Cult of Darlie
A cast of Fellini-esque characters claiming they possess new evidence keep the Routier murder case in the national spotlight
If they start throwing chairs, you'll know you're on the wrong set." With such sage advice, my 11-year-old daughter bid me adieu before I jetted off to Los Angeles on less than a day's notice to appear on the Leeza Gibbons show, the outer ring of TV talk-show hell.
On the relatively civilized, if somewhat banal, Leeza show, the topic was Darlie Routier, the blonde Rowlett mother whose two young sons were stabbed to death on the den floor where they slept by her side three years ago this June. After a five-week trial in Kerrville, a jury convicted Darlie of murdering 5-year-old Damon and sentenced her to death.

In the pantheon of gruesome, captivating Texas crime stories, of which there is no shortage, the Routier murder case certainly holds its own: A young, flashy mother claims she slept through--or just doesn't remember--an intruder's vicious attack on herself and her boys. Then, a week later, she allows a TV news crew to film her

gleefully shooting Silly String during a graveside party on what would have been her oldest son's seventh birthday. She hires one of the best-known criminal-defense attorneys in the state, who loses the case even though there is no eyewitness, confession, or clear-cut motive.

Still, it seems odd that a national television show would want to revisit a 3-year-old murder case, even one as intriguing as this. Of course, one of the peculiar features of the Routier case is how its hold on the public has seemed to grow stronger with time.

rest of article at:

http://www.dallasobserver.com/issues/1999-05-06/news/feature2.html

[Dani_T]

What I think is hillarious is that the main thing that changed Barbara's mind was an empty evidence bag lying on the crime scene which may or may not have later been used to transport evidence. *LOL*

Can't wait for Brown's second book which is going to blow this case wide open. Pity we have been waiting about 5 years for it now.

[dasgal]

No Dani. I know what Chris used to change Barbara's mind. He got me with it for a while too. He had a photo of the u-room door print, and the Patterson's kid's book in sheet. (supposedly)

Looked real as hell by the way. He gave me the glass, and I identified it as Chad's (supposedly) middle finger top of second inner knuckle. No problem. The only problem was that that he kept the book in card folded over so that I couldn't see the name, but later revealed it as well as Chad's criminal history. As well as a story that Chad had a cousin 2 doors down from the Routiers who he visited often. Drove a dark colored car. Daddy's doing the investigation. You know the rest. This was 8.5 years ago, before I ever wrote word one on a web site, and then it was as a supporter right here on the newly opened website forum. Ask DP, she remembers.

Problem was, I had access to information. I really researched it. I understood blood evidence. If you know Chris, he is a jokester. He likes to trick people. He tests people that way. If you catch him in his bull***** he knows he can respect you.

DP can tell you, and many others here on WS just how many times I called Chris publically on stuff and how many times he admitted that I got him.

He got Barbara, that's all. I can totally see how it happened. He almost got me too. Barbara and I have talked about this, but she just has so many doubts now. She's a good lady, trying to do the right thing. I don't care what anyone else has to say about her. I knew her a long time before Darlie from the Victim's Assistance Department. There isn't a bad bone in her body.
If anything, the only fault she has is having too big of a heart.

[Dani_T]

In the article above the author said that the clincher for Barbara was an evidence bag which was lying in a pool of blood that the police had tried to cover up. That was what I was referring to.

So with Chad's print are you saying it WASN'T his print that was on the card or what? *confused*

[dasgal]

As for Chris, he's a weird duck, I'll give you that. But have little doubt that he is brilliant. He can't spell to save his life, or form a correct sentence, but neither can a lot of smart people. But you can't underestimate him. He got to more people than Barbara and I, you can believe that.
I haven't spoken to him in a year or so now, but only because I have moved and it's my choice. We had a good working relationship for years after I knew he was full of crap. I wish I could explain it. He did amazing magic card tricks and slight of hand. I mean really awesome. You could give him any numbers, many many and ask him to do multiplication in his head, and he could do it in an instant and be right. Hell, you had to use a calculater to check him, but he was always right, and had the answer within seconds. He knew several languages and was versed in politics and philosophy.
It was like hanging out with a constant test. I don't know how else to explain our friendship. He'd call me with some big tip, or promise to "party" with Darin, or had some news guy on the other line. You just never knew what he was up to next. You had to think about his motives as much as you had to think about Darlie. He just thought I was so cool because I always caught on to his BS, and I thought he was interesting because he never tired of the tests. He has several friends in the case, namely Darin. They are thick as theives, partying (last I heard) damn near nightly. He's also got the ear of several prominant local news people, namely Jeff Chrilley and others. You can tell by Chrilly's reports on Darlie that Chris got to him too. But then again it's been a while since Chrilly reported on Darlie. Maybe he figured out the game too.

[dasgal]

No Dani it wasn't. I accessed the real print and it was different. What can I say. I have no idea how Chris pulled it off, but then again, he snuck a hand scanner into the DAs evidence room. He's no dummy.

But the bottom line is that the real print was different that the print Chris showed me, and the blood pointed to one person only. And it wasn't Chad. It was Darlie.

[dasgal]

Because the "print" is one of those top secret things. It works because the supporters aren't suppose to tell anyone, although they always do. It's one of those super secret things that will come into the "next trial".

I was talking to Chris, online here on WS, probably 7 years ago or something and told him that it was a real shame that they didn't take the kids prints, that I thought that the print belonged to one of them, but unfortunately they would have to dig them up to find out.

Next thing you know, they are digging up the kids, cutting off their hands....you can't believe the guilt I feel on that one. Who else was there? Jeff Chrilly. Camera at the ready.

There is a lot of archives on the bull Chris tried to pull off on that one. Try Candy Rose.

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Spin or what.



I have always been suspicious of the kid because of the closeness to the whole scene and all. He supposedly went to the house with Mulders secretary before the murders-according to MTJD. He has been convicted of a drive by now .
The car -the dark car has disappeared, no record of sale no record of junk out totaled or crushed. The dark car was registered to another family member.

See this is what has me really mad about the whole affair. All the books and people who supposedly saw the case as a way to profit themselves.

Chris, Barb, everyone jumped on the bandwagon. Darlie's case is very full of holes when you look at everything. The boys deaths mean so little to most people as they just want to feel good about killing a guilty person and Darlie's strange behavior lets them do just that. The books are geared to making people hate Darlie and the sources for the information "revealed" to the authors is questionable. I take all of the books with a grain of salt.

My own Mama says BELIEVE ONLY HALF OF WHAT YOU READ AND NONE OF WHAT YOU HEAR.

Since I knew her I don't see her behavior as strange in fact I see typical Darlie Lynn.

Thats why I'm looking to the blood evidence and setting up the experiment I have discussed.

[cami]

Spin or what.



I have always been suspicious of the kid because of the closeness to the whole scene and all. He supposedly went to the house with Mulders secretary before the murders-according to MTJD. He has been convicted of a drive by now .
The car -the dark car has disappeared, no record of sale no record of junk out totaled or crushed. The dark car was registered to another family member.

There's no evidence that Chad Patterson was involved in this crime. What you are suggesting smacks of conspiracy given his father's work in this case. He's just a red herring used by the defense, just as the dark car is a red herring. No make, no model, no plate no, no description of occupants. A dark car was stopped in the vicinity of the murders that very night and the occupants/car searched but nothing was found. What evidence would we expect to find in a car? There's no blood trail leading from the home, so no blood in the car. He left the murder weapon at the scene so no knife to be found, nothing stolen from the house so no goods, money, credit cards, or drugs to be found in the car.

[Jeana (DP)]

The boys deaths mean so little to most people as they just want to feel good about killing a guilty person and Darlie's strange behavior lets them do just that.





This is completely out of line. How dare you give yourself permission to speak for "most people."

NO ONE feels good about executing anyone, even Darlie Routier.

[SanQuentinvisitor]

I have not read this book, but is this- or any part of it true?


Before he went, Brown read all the newspaper coverage on the trial, and by the time he was done, he was intrigued by some of the inconsistencies in the state's case. If Darlie slashed her own throat by the sink, as the state alleged, why was her blood on her pillow on the couch where she lay asleep?

[beesy]

This is completely out of line. How dare you give yourself permission to speak for "most people."

NO ONE feels good about executing anyone, even Darlie Routier. I agree Jeana! I've always been upset that there is never any talk of finding justice for the boys. Where is their website! It's always "let's get Darlie out of jail", not "let's punish the real killer!"

[cami]

I have not read this book, but is this- or any part of it true?

Why was there no blood on the couch if she was slashed there while she was asleep, Chris? She could very easily have moved that pillow and bled on it.

SQV, Chris Brown is not a forensics expert, he has no qualifications so anything in that book is his personal opinion only. Some of it is so off the mark it isn't funny. Take those prints on that blanket he is trying to allege are boot prints of an intruder. Gee they sure look like bare feet to me and we know that Darlie was the only intruder with bare, bloody feet.

[SanQuentinvisitor]

Why was there no blood on the couch if she was slashed there while she was asleep, Chris? She could very easily have moved that pillow and bled on it.

SQV, Chris Brown is not a forensics expert, he has no qualifications so anything in that book is his personal opinion only. Some of it is so off the mark it isn't funny. Take those prints on that blanket he is trying to allege are boot prints of an intruder. Gee they sure look like bare feet to me and we know that Darlie was the only intruder with bare, bloody feet.I figured as much.

It's a very good thing that the courts limit the 'evidence' that can be brought into an appeal, or this process could take forever with all the half baked nutcases that attach themselves to these 'high profile' cases. Really a shame that Darlie's family fell into a trap of being yanked by these shysters....

I think he is/was doing a real disservice to that family by giving them all this false hope. It's her family that has to deal with this aftermath. Darlie knows the truth and is allowing it all to go on while she sits there in her cell thinking up ways to keep the facade going. She is to blame for all of her families pain; past, present and future, I'm afraid.

[beesy]

I think he is/was doing a real disservice to that family by giving them all this false hope. It's her family that has to deal with this aftermath. Darlie knows the truth and is allowing it all to go on while she sits there in her cell thinking up ways to keep the facade going. She is to blame for all of her families pain; past, present and future, I'm afraid.Yes, Darlie has ruined many people's lives, not just Damon and Devon's, not even just the families, but friends, and even strangers who get caught in her web.
Some of the Routier and Kee family didn't even see most of the trial. They weren't allowed in because they were testifying. They have recieved most of their information from others.IMO Then spew it on TV. The testimony usually contradicts what they say so that's why I think they've never read the darn things.
From a recent doc. I saw on Darlie, I think they have broken ties with Chris. He was called a "source" through out. That tickles me because many of Darlie's supporters take that book as gospel

[dasgal]

Thats why I'm looking to the blood evidence and setting up the experiment I have discussed.
Actually, that's a good way to do it. That's what finally got me in the end. I was originally a supporter of Darlie's but when I tried to sit down the with blood evidence, it was clearly her. BTW-I was a member of Homicide Investigators of Texas, and I looked at the blood evidence for several months before becoming convinced.
Once I completed my analysis, the rest of the house of cards fell..........

[cami]

[/color]
So that picture of the pillow with the blood spots on it is Darlie's pillow, but it does show that was cut on the couch, right?

No cuts on the couch, no nicks from the knife at all and no blood where she says she was sleeping and attacked.

I no longer have notes on this case so I had to reread Bevel's, Linch's, Long's and Floyd's testimony on the blood on the wall that they first collected and then later removed. The most I can find is that it was blood drops and smears of blood. I will keep searching for the testimony on this so we can ascertain whose blood it was as I know some of us are waiting for me and/or Dani to answer on the wall where Damon was found. However, I'll just throw out what I think and you can have at it. I believe that both Darlie's and Damon's blood is on the wall. Darlie's because she was bleeding and Damon's because he was stabbed there by Darlie and not an intruder. Now I am off to find the testimony on this......

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

This is completely out of line. How dare you give yourself permission to speak for "most people."

NO ONE feels good about executing anyone, even Darlie Routier.
"Most people" aren't the posters here, let me make that plain. Just look around on the internet a lot of untrue things are said about both sides. Some of it very distasteful.
At least here it seems people want to discuss crime evidence and don't dwell on the macabre. Let me say I'm Sorry if you personally took offense to that post.
:truce:
I DIDN'T MEAN ANYONE HERE.

[beesy]

][/color][QUOTE]No cuts on the couch, no nicks from the knife at all and no blood where she says she was sleeping and attacked.
Crap I meant NO cuts. I left out the most important word ha! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_5_137.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZS) I was trying to ask if the picture shown in MTJD with blood on it is the pillow Darlie said she was using or is it the pillow that Devon was using with the case taken off?

[Jeana (DP)]

"Most people" aren't the posters here, let me make that plain. Just look around on the internet a lot of untrue things are said about both sides. Some of it very distasteful.
At least here it seems people want to discuss crime evidence and don't dwell on the macabre. Let me say I'm Sorry if you personally took offense to that post.
:truce:
I DIDN'T MEAN ANYONE HERE.


What happens on the rest of the internet doesn't interest me. Every poster that has ever come here to discuss the Routier case DOES care about the boys. They've cried for them and they pray for their souls, which is more than I can say about their own mother. Even those of us who think Darlie should be executed will not be doing a happy dance the day it happens.

[dasgal]

What happens on the rest of the internet doesn't interest me. Every poster that has ever come here to discuss the Routier case DOES care about the boys. They've cried for them and they pray for their souls, which is more than I can say about their own mother. Even those of us who think Darlie should be executed will not be doing a happy dance the day it happens.
I'll have to second what Jeana said. I spent 8 years thinking about these boys constantly. I sent flowers to their graves. I sent money to their memorial funds on various websites. I cared... as did many others. When the boys were brutally murdered, I had sons roughly the same ages. I have often wondered what kind of people Damon and Devon would have grown up to be if they weren't so brutally murdered in their childhood. What would they be doing now? Enjoying school and finding puppy love or more? What would they be learning in school? What experiences would they have to share with others?
And then you have Darlie, who has written poems about how they are better off, who has TV interviews in which she has talked non stop about herself and her "wealth", who has written to her supporters about how "unjust" prison life is, who did a glam shoot for her article in Glamour Magazine. This is the same lady who piles on the make-up for her yearly Christmas Card to supporters (while also begging for money), and lies to supporters in mail thinking these folks don't talk to one another. The same lady who let her babies be dug out of a joint grave so that she could peel the skin off their hands, knowing full well it was too late to get a definative answer on fingerprints. The same lady who has by my latest count come up with over 25 stories of what happened that night. The same lady who has now gone as far as trying to implicate her friends and family.
Know well that this is the lady you defend. Know also that the people who study this case are outraged over the loss of two perfect little souls who were taken from this earth long before their time was due.
Will I dance on Darlie's grave? No, I will not. I will pity her, and the desperation and self loathing that brought her to this horrible act. But every year I will take flowers to the grave belonging to the boys. And I will continue to contribute to websites that honor their memory.
Peace,
Cindy

[SanQuentinvisitor]

I'll have to second what Jeana said. I spent 8 years thinking about these boys constantly. I sent flowers to their graves. I sent money to their memorial funds on various websites. I cared... as did many others. When the boys were brutally murdered, I had sons roughly the same ages. I have often wondered what kind of people Damon and Devon would have grown up to be if they weren't so brutally murdered in their childhood. What would they be doing now? Enjoying school and finding puppy love or more? What would they be learning in school? What experiences would they have to share with others?
And then you have Darlie, who has written poems about how they are better off, who has TV interviews in which she has talked non stop about herself and her "wealth", who has written to her supporters about how "unjust" prison life is, who did a glam shoot for her article in Glamour Magazine. This is the same lady who piles on the make-up for her yearly Christmas Card to supporters (while also begging for money), and lies to supporters in mail thinking these folks don't talk to one another. The same lady who let her babies be dug out of a joint grave so that she could peel the skin off their hands, knowing full well it was too late to get a definative answer on fingerprints. The same lady who has by my latest count come up with over 25 stories of what happened that night. The same lady who has now gone as far as trying to implicate her friends and family.
Know well that this is the lady you defend. Know also that the people who study this case are outraged over the loss of two perfect little souls who were taken from this earth long before their time was due.
Will I dance on Darlie's grave? No, I will not. I will pity her, and the desperation and self loathing that brought her to this horrible act. But every year I will take flowers to the grave belonging to the boys. And I will continue to contribute to websites that honor their memory.
Peace,
Cindy
Hi Cindy; You don't know me, but I wanted to thank you so much for your impassioned response to those who support a woman like Darlie. Those children are the ONLY true victims in this entire mess. While I feel for her family, I also feel a bit odd that they encouraged Darlie to do 'whatever' it might take to free herself; even if that meant digging her children up to keep this facade going.
I am so sick and tired of those 'irrational' supporter types who grasp on to these cases with an iron clasp while building ridiculous theories and stories, to try to excuse the true evidence.
I know most here, if not all, had a long hard road to drive before finally realizing what this suburban mother of three could do to her kids, what only a monster is capable of doing.

What's interesting though is that if the shoe were on the other foot, and what I've learned about Darlie's personality, do you think she would be one to be so vigorous in her support of a person accussed of doing this crime, or would she be planning her next 'purchase' and 'vacation'. :confused: Something tells me that Darlie wasn't all that concerned with 'injustice' probably until the day she was arrested.

I, along with others never feel 'good' when they finally do excute Darlie, nor do I think Darlie is the main event here. She is just the reason this discussion has to happen in the first place. It is my hope that when Darlie is gone, only her children's memory will shine through. As it stands, Darlie is the only thing that seems to matter in the eyes of the supporters.

[beesy]

[QUOTE]What's interesting though is that if the shoe were on the other foot, and what I've learned about Darlie's personality, do you think she would be one to be so vigorous in her support of a person accussed of doing this crime, or would she be planning her next 'purchase' and 'vacation'. :confused: Something tells me that Darlie wasn't all that concerned with 'injustice' probably until the day she was arrested.
I've asked some of her supporters, but have never received an answer. Take the same evidence, the same judge, jury, city, investigators, all of it. If Darlie had been found not guilty, would they still think her trial was unfair?

[dasgal]

Thank you for what you said. I don't think any of us take it lightly.

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

What happens on the rest of the internet doesn't interest me. Every poster that has ever come here to discuss the Routier case DOES care about the boys. They've cried for them and they pray for their souls, which is more than I can say about their own mother. Even those of us who think Darlie should be executed will not be doing a happy dance the day it happens.
Whatever you do unto these little ones you do unto me.
Quote Jesus.

[dasgal]

Whatever you do unto these little ones you do unto me.
Quote Jesus.Sorry, but what the heck does that have to do with the situation at hand? You obviously think Darlie is innocent, so what justice, by your reasoning, do these children have????????????????? Jesus is gonna set it all straight? Maybe Jesus already did.

[beesy]

I'll have to second what Jeana said. I spent 8 years thinking about these boys constantly. I sent flowers to their graves. I sent money to their memorial funds on various websites. I cared... as did many others. When the boys were brutally murdered, I had sons roughly the same ages. I have often wondered what kind of people Damon and Devon would have grown up to be if they weren't so brutally murdered in their childhood. What would they be doing now? Enjoying school and finding puppy love or more? What would they be learning in school? What experiences would they have to share with others?
And then you have Darlie, who has written poems about how they are better off, who has TV interviews in which she has talked non stop about herself and her "wealth", who has written to her supporters about how "unjust" prison life is, who did a glam shoot for her article in Glamour Magazine. This is the same lady who piles on the make-up for her yearly Christmas Card to supporters (while also begging for money), and lies to supporters in mail thinking these folks don't talk to one another. The same lady who let her babies be dug out of a joint grave so that she could peel the skin off their hands, knowing full well it was too late to get a definative answer on fingerprints. The same lady who has by my latest count come up with over 25 stories of what happened that night. The same lady who has now gone as far as trying to implicate her friends and family.
Know well that this is the lady you defend. Know also that the people who study this case are outraged over the loss of two perfect little souls who were taken from this earth long before their time was due.
Will I dance on Darlie's grave? No, I will not. I will pity her, and the desperation and self loathing that brought her to this horrible act. But every year I will take flowers to the grave belonging to the boys. And I will continue to contribute to websites that honor their memory.
Peace,
Cindy I'll call 3rds on that one. Thank you for this post. I think you've said what many of us cannot put into words.

[Goody]

There's no evidence that Chad Patterson was involved in this crime. What you are suggesting smacks of conspiracy given his father's work in this case. He's just a red herring used by the defense, just as the dark car is a red herring. No make, no model, no plate no, no description of occupants. A dark car was stopped in the vicinity of the murders that very night and the occupants/car searched but nothing was found. What evidence would we expect to find in a car? There's no blood trail leading from the home, so no blood in the car. He left the murder weapon at the scene so no knife to be found, nothing stolen from the house so no goods, money, credit cards, or drugs to be found in the car.
I think that is the car Jane was talking about....registered to one of the girls and she was related to this cousin of Chad's " a couple of doors down." Have I got that right? The location of Chad's cousin sounds like the same house Mizer lived in. Is that possible? Come on, Jane and JG...enlighten us.

[Goody]

No Dani it wasn't. I accessed the real print and it was different. What can I say. I have no idea how Chris pulled it off, but then again, he snuck a hand scanner into the DAs evidence room. He's no dummy.

But the bottom line is that the real print was different that the print Chris showed me, and the blood pointed to one person only. And it wasn't Chad. It was Darlie.
If Chris is so smart and so into tests, why doesn't he come up with tests to show how the blood can land on the shirt in the same pattern as Bevel's tests showed they could? It would take more than a parlor trick to do that.

[Goody]

Spin or what.


............See this is what has me really mad about the whole affair. All the books and people who supposedly saw the case as a way to profit themselves.

.
True crime books are only an accounting of what is witnessed and documented. They aren't geared toward anything but to give as much information as they can. Some authors share their opinions and some don't. Sime write more tabloidy than others, but it is up to the reader what to accept or discard. I think the more objective the reader is, the easier it is to do that. You can't rely on them exclusively but the information in them can help one who is researching a case.

I am not sure someone close to the defendant is objective enough to gain anything from them though. They might tend to focus more on the irrelevant because it is wounding or hurtful rather than on the important insights offered.

[Goody]

Yes, Darlie has ruined many people's lives, not just Damon and Devon's, not even just the families, but friends, and even strangers who get caught in her web.
Some of the Routier and Kee family didn't even see most of the trial. They weren't allowed in because they were testifying. They have recieved most of their information from others.IMO Then spew it on TV. The testimony usually contradicts what they say so that's why I think they've never read the darn things.
From a recent doc. I saw on Darlie, I think they have broken ties with Chris. He was called a "source" through out. That tickles me because many of Darlie's supporters take that book as gospel
Didn't Darin say that Darlie called the internet supporters "greenies"? LOL! He implied she didn't have much use for them either.

[Goody]

I'll have to second what Jeana said. I spent 8 years thinking about these boys constantly. I sent flowers to their graves. I sent money to their memorial funds on various websites. I cared... as did many others. When the boys were brutally murdered, I had sons roughly the same ages. I have often wondered what kind of people Damon and Devon would have grown up to be if they weren't so brutally murdered in their childhood. What would they be doing now? Enjoying school and finding puppy love or more? What would they be learning in school? What experiences would they have to share with others?
And then you have Darlie, who has written poems about how they are better off, who has TV interviews in which she has talked non stop about herself and her "wealth", who has written to her supporters about how "unjust" prison life is, who did a glam shoot for her article in Glamour Magazine. This is the same lady who piles on the make-up for her yearly Christmas Card to supporters (while also begging for money), and lies to supporters in mail thinking these folks don't talk to one another. The same lady who let her babies be dug out of a joint grave so that she could peel the skin off their hands, knowing full well it was too late to get a definative answer on fingerprints. The same lady who has by my latest count come up with over 25 stories of what happened that night. The same lady who has now gone as far as trying to implicate her friends and family.
Know well that this is the lady you defend. Know also that the people who study this case are outraged over the loss of t wo perfect little souls who were taken from this earth long before their time was due.
Will I dance on Darlie's grave? No, I will not. I will pity her, and the desperation and self loathing that brought her to this horrible act. But every year I will take flowers to the grave belonging to the boys. And I will continue to contribute to websites that honor their memory.
Peace,
Cindy
Gosh, Cindy, very well said. :clap:

[Goody]

Whatever you do unto these little ones you do unto me.
Quote Jesus.
So everytime they were stabbed, the killer was stabbing Jesus. Every drop of fear and pain they experienced, so did Jesus. (Can you imagine if the face they peered into during those attacks was their very own mother how horrific it must have been for those little guys?) That is some burden for the killer to carry but it must be carried all the same, acording to your own quote. The only thing we differ in is on whose back it lays. There can be no redemption without confession and remorse. So if she did do this thing, you aren't helping her if you are helping her hide her guilt.

[beesy]

Whatever you do unto these little ones you do unto me.
Quote Jesus. Then Darlie's got some 'splainin to do.

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

So everytime they were stabbed, the killer was stabbing Jesus. Every drop of fear and pain they experienced, so did Jesus. (Can you imagine if the face they peered into during those attacks was their very own mother how horrific it must have been for those little guys?) That is some burden for the killer to carry but it must be carried all the same, acording to your own quote. The only thing we differ in is on whose back it lays. There can be no redemption without confession and remorse. So if she did do this thing, you aren't helping her if you are helping her hide her guilt.
I'm not hiding anything, I came her to look at the evidence objectively, it lies in the blood and being able to completely understand it means I can explain it to someone else too.
I am not responsible for anyone's redemption but my own. I cannot control Darlie's choices in life, or her death.
Without needing to use anything else the blood should tell.

I quoted the Bible so take it as you see it, what ever sin is committed against children is committed against Jesus too. For however we treat the least so shall we be treated. Darlie has yet to confess only add details to her story or change versions as you say.
I don't want to imagine what the boys went thru only that certainly Jesus knew they were coming and lifted the pain and burden from them long before they died, he was there to give comfort as well as everlasting life.

I can only tell Mama Darlie how I feel about Darlie's innocence or guilt but I'm sure even she has had to have her doubts too. It is not that I don't see Darlie as being capable of snapping, or having some kind of reaction to the drugs, or any of the other pat answers that have been proposed but that's the whole problem here.

How did Darlie plant the sock without getting any of her blood on it.

Bevel testifies that the spots that are cast off t-B or t-10 are mixtures of Darlie/Devon and Darlie/Damon----- ok this is real important for me to get right cause I think I can control the blood reenactment to include Darlie stabbing the boys while bleeding herself. But I can't seem to find all the pieces together. What is put forth as the most likely order she did things in?

That is why I asked for you opinions about how to reconstruct this correctly- as you see it.

Hubby also said he would volunteer his laser light instead of a plumb bob. It would also be great for setting up the proper angles.

I'm not trying to blow smoke screens as you think. I too watch a great deal of real crime TV and I saw a cold case solved by the tool marks on the knife and a bone of the victim. When they took the knife apart they found the victims blood.

That is one of the reasons I put a great deal of validity on Poole's testimony about the serrations he found on the wound. If he can't match it to the knife positively then is still doesn't mean it isn't the correct weapon. I was under the impression that these tool marks were very unique in most cases, but I guess not this one.
That's why I have been so stubborn about my 2 knife theory, If I'm wrong I'm wrong. I am a big girl and it wouldn't be the first time and I doubt the last. I'll give up the 2 knife theory unless some other expert can say positively one way or the other. That's the problem with these experts they are harder to get a straight answer out of than a politician.

[txsvicki]

I know that the sock has probably been discussed a lot, and I read the theory about static cling, which I don't think happened. What could have been the purpose of the sock? Was it used as sort of a glove to keep from putting any prints on the knife if it had been washed before the murders, and then slipped off possibly leaving Darlie's print? I don't get why the sock was used in the murders unless Darlie was wearing socks at the beginning. My answer to Jane's question, if Darin didn't run it down the alley, is maybe Darlie's blood isn't on the sock because she wasn't cut yet?

[deanws]

I know that the sock has probably been discussed a lot, and I read the theory about static cling, which I don't think happened. What could have been the purpose of the sock? Was it used as sort of a glove to keep from putting any prints on the knife if it had been washed before the murders, and then slipped off possibly leaving Darlie's print? I don't get why the sock was used in the murders unless Darlie was wearing socks at the beginning. My answer to Jane's question, if Darin didn't run it down the alley, is maybe Darlie's blood isn't on the sock because she wasn't cut yet?LOL.....I laughed at the "static cling" theory myself! :D

[Mary456]

How did Darlie plant the sock without getting any of her blood on it.

Darlie didn't plant the sock; if she was trying to implicate an intruder, she would have thrown it in the yard where the police would be sure to find it. Instead, she took it as far away from the crime scene as time and panic would allow. Why? Probably because she used it over the knife handle when she stabbed the boys, and was afraid that their blood on it would incriminate her (consciousness of guilt). Or maybe she was afraid the police could lift her fingerprints from the sock. Sounds silly, but many people think fingerprints can be lifted off any surface which, of course, is a fallacy.

The reason her blood isn't on the sock is because she took it down the alley before she inflicted her own wounds. At least, that's the most reasonable explanation to me :)

[cami]

I'll have to second what Jeana said. I spent 8 years thinking about these boys constantly. I sent flowers to their graves. I sent money to their memorial funds on various websites. I cared... as did many others. When the boys were brutally murdered, I had sons roughly the same ages. I have often wondered what kind of people Damon and Devon would have grown up to be if they weren't so brutally murdered in their childhood. What would they be doing now? Enjoying school and finding puppy love or more? What would they be learning in school? What experiences would they have to share with others?
And then you have Darlie, who has written poems about how they are better off, who has TV interviews in which she has talked non stop about herself and her "wealth", who has written to her supporters about how "unjust" prison life is, who did a glam shoot for her article in Glamour Magazine. This is the same lady who piles on the make-up for her yearly Christmas Card to supporters (while also begging for money), and lies to supporters in mail thinking these folks don't talk to one another. The same lady who let her babies be dug out of a joint grave so that she could peel the skin off their hands, knowing full well it was too late to get a definative answer on fingerprints. The same lady who has by my latest count come up with over 25 stories of what happened that night. The same lady who has now gone as far as trying to implicate her friends and family.
Know well that this is the lady you defend. Know also that the people who study this case are outraged over the loss of two perfect little souls who were taken from this earth long before their time was due.
Will I dance on Darlie's grave? No, I will not. I will pity her, and the desperation and self loathing that brought her to this horrible act. But every year I will take flowers to the grave belonging to the boys. And I will continue to contribute to websites that honor their memory.
Peace,
Cindy

Brilliant post Cindy... you've said it so well. It's exactly how I feel. None of us will be dancing when Darlie is executed. What a waste of a young life.

But it's those boys that we all care about and their loss to society. Devon could have become President some day for all we know and Damon find a cure for some fatal disease. I can't tell you the number of times I've cried for those two beautiful boys. Especially when you see them so full of life and cute as can be on those home movies.

[cami]

How did Darlie plant the sock without getting any of her blood on it.

Bevel testifies that the spots that are cast off t-B or t-10 are mixtures of Darlie/Devon and Darlie/Damon----- ok this is real important for me to get right cause I think I can control the blood reenactment to include Darlie stabbing the boys while bleeding herself. But I can't seem to find all the pieces together. What is put forth as the most likely order she did things in?


How did the alleged intruder avoid getting Darlie's blood on the sock? That's her blood all over the place. How did he avoid it?

You don't allow for the possibility that Darlie planted that sock BEFORE she was bleeding or the possibility that Darin put the sock in the alley?

Yet, you conclude definitely from Poole's testimony there were two knives used in this crime, hence two killers.

[Goody]

I'm not hiding anything, I came her to look at the evidence objectively, it lies in the blood and being able to completely understand it means I can explain it to someone else too.
I am not responsible for anyone's redemption but my own. I cannot control Darlie's choices in life, or her death.
Without needing to use anything else the blood should tell.

I quoted the Bible so take it as you see it, what ever sin is committed against children is committed against Jesus too. For however we treat the least so shall we be treated. Darlie has yet to confess only add details to her story or change versions as you say.
I don't want to imagine what the boys went thru only that certainly Jesus knew they were coming and lifted the pain and burden from them long before they died, he was there to give comfort as well as everlasting life.

I can only tell Mama Darlie how I feel about Darlie's innocence or guilt but I'm sure even she has had to have her doubts too. It is not that I don't see Darlie as being capable of snapping, or having some kind of reaction to the drugs, or any of the other pat answers that have been proposed but that's the whole problem here.

How did Darlie plant the sock without getting any of her blood on it.
She didn't. She or Darin dropped it there accidentally as they attempted to hide evidence, probably in the sewer as it certainly was not the nearby trash can which was searched by police. As fate would have it, police only retrieved the sock. There is no reason for a stranger to dump evidence as he fled. If he had, the knife would have been with it or never found because it was the most important evidence against the murderer and it was left in the house. If Darlie or Darin purposely planted it to mislead authorities, they would not have dumped it so far away. The best place to leave a bloody clue would be somewhere near the back gate to substantiate Darlie's story. Conclusion: the sock has to be a mistake, a mistake made by one of the parents since only someone from the house would have a motive to hide evidence.





Bevel testifies that the spots that are cast off t-B or t-10 are mixtures of Darlie/Devon and Darlie/Damon----- ok this is real important for me to get right cause I think I can control the blood reenactment to include Darlie stabbing the boys while bleeding herself. But I can't seem to find all the pieces together. What is put forth as the most likely order she did things in?

That is why I asked for you opinions about how to reconstruct this correctly- as you see it.

Hubby also said he would volunteer his laser light instead of a plumb bob. It would also be great for setting up the proper angles.

I'm not trying to blow smoke screens as you think. I too watch a great deal of real crime TV and I saw a cold case solved by the tool marks on the knife and a bone of the victim. When they took the knife apart they found the victims blood.

That is one of the reasons I put a great deal of validity on Poole's testimony about the serrations he found on the wound. If he can't match it to the knife positively then is still doesn't mean it isn't the correct weapon. I was under the impression that these tool marks were very unique in most cases, but I guess not this one.
That's why I have been so stubborn about my 2 knife theory, If I'm wrong I'm wrong. I am a big girl and it wouldn't be the first time and I doubt the last. I'll give up the 2 knife theory unless some other expert can say positively one way or the other. That's the problem with these experts they are harder to get a straight answer out of than a politician.
I would not poopoo the two knife theory if I could find a logical reason for two knifes to exist. It doesn't make sense for someone to bring a knife and not use it, or for more than one intruder to be in a house and not kill everyone in it, including those on the second floor. Additionally I cannot justify two people all over the family room and kitchen without breaking up a lot of stuff, without leaving their dna in the house somewhere, without getting blood on themselves and on other things as they fled, without leaving at least one good print somewhere, esp if they are leaving partials in blood. Plus if you have two guys, you have at least two girlfriends somewhere who likely know about it, and even they aren't talking. How lucky do these guys get?????

I do not believe an intruder would kill even one child let alone two unless he planned on killing everyone in the house, and whether they knew Darin was there or not, they would have checked the rest of the house, and once everyone was down, they would have taken what they wanted. Burglars are not usually violent as it has been pointed out previously unless they are threatened. These children posed no threat that night, esp not Damon as he was obviously sound asleep when attacked, and even Devon could not have been much of a problem as he was stabbed right where he lay. He didn't even get up. There is just no reasonable argument for any intruder theory, no matter how we try to manipulate it to fit the evidence.

Then there is the fiberglas DUST AND SHAFT that just happens to look exactly like the screen's FIBERGLAS DUST AND SHAFT. Come on...that can only mean one thing no matter how many tests are done. The bread knife was used to cut the screen. You know, they had homemade bread that night. It is likely that knife was used then and washed before this crime even happened. If so, there is only one place it could have picked up the screen fiber....from the screen. Since we know the intruder did not knock on the door and ask to borrow a knife, then use it to cut the screen, and put it back in the butcher block as he crept through the house, taking the butcher knife with him instead to kill two sleeping pre-schoolers (or darned close), I think it is safe to say that the bread knife was used by someone living in the house and used intentionally to mislead police.

I don't blame you for wanting to analyze the blood evidence and your experiment could be very interesting. I am anxious to hear all about it, but just bear in mind that the fiber is standing in line right behind the evidence on that shirt. LOL!

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

I have to take the fiber evidence with a grain of salt since there is a possiblity of it being from the brush itself. The further complete testing should have been done and should be included in that list of stuff that requires further looks.

This would be some very conclusive evidence, that an expert could say yes this screen or a screen just like it.

I hope it is done.

[cami]

I have to take the fiber evidence with a grain of salt since there is a possiblity of it being from the brush itself. The further complete testing should have been done and should be included in that list of stuff that requires further looks.

This would be some very conclusive evidence, that an expert could say yes this screen or a screen just like it.

I hope it is done.

Just another defence smokescreen. The screen was the first thing dusted. The technician worked his way back through the garage, utility room, into the kitchen. Not logical for me to believe that brush picked up dust and a fibre from the screen, dusted the garage, utility room and kitchen AND THEN fell on the bread knife in the butcher block? Boy that Darlie sure has the worst of luck doesn't she?

The knife wasn't even dusted at the house. There were two separate pieces of evidence on that bread knife, the fibre and dust from the screen.

[CyberLaw]

I just can't forget about the dog or that there was zero evidence of an intruder. No blood trail, not a drop outside the home as the "intruder" was running away.

Fortunately, most people don't know how to "stage" a successful crime scene to "blame another unknown person". But the people who are trained, have very good knowledge of what should be there at the scene and what is not.

If an unknown person stabs two kids and their mother, you can bet that he has blood on him and his shoes. But again, not a drop of blood anywhere else but the house.

What about the broken glasses under the vacuum. There was no cuts on Darlie and blood was under the broken glass. But that of course is impossible as Darlie claimed that she was cut and bleeding, ran after the "intruder" and the glass broke in front of her. So again, why was her blood under the glass.

Also Darlie "claims" that she had to step on the glass to "chase" the intruder, but again, no cuts on her feet. It was also brought forward that Darlie did not run through the kitchen, but walked. So now she walked after the "intruder".

Not to mention the kitchen clean up...........so as for the "Cult of Darlie" some people are "taken" in by others and "convinced" that an innocent person is in Prison. They seems to be naive to me.............

I look at facts, not stories.......evidence, not futher "self serving" stories.

Please.

[Crimson Sky]

The part I don't get is that the sock was found in the alley. No matter what, someone involved in this crime took it there. So even if Darlie staged it, why is there no blood trail?

[Jeana (DP)]

The part I don't get is that the sock was found in the alley. No matter what, someone involved in this crime took it there. So even if Darlie staged it, why is there no blood trail?


She wasn't bleeding yet.

[Goody]

I have to take the fiber evidence with a grain of salt since there is a possiblity of it being from the brush itself. The further complete testing should have been done and should be included in that list of stuff that requires further looks.

This would be some very conclusive evidence, that an expert could say yes this screen or a screen just like it.

I hope it is done.
They showed the microscopic picture on one of these forensic shows of what Linch viewed when he looked at the fiber. It was a perfect match.

The hair on the fingerprint brush is nothing like the fiber from the screen. From everythng I have read about the two, it could probably be ruled out in a microscopic test. Not the same size even. I agree with Cami that this is just defense blowing smoke. Esp since you have two things to match here...the actual fiber and the fiberglas dust. There is no fiberglas dust in the fingerprint brush even if the actual fiber proved to be comparable physically to the screen fiber, which I really do not think it is.

[Goody]

Also Darlie "claims" that she had to step on the glass to "chase" the intruder, but again, no cuts on her feet. It was also brought forward that Darlie did not run through the kitchen, but walked. So now she walked after the "intruder".



Hi, CyberLaw! Glad you stopped by.

I have been reading the bond hearing testimony and it was testified to by first responders and Detective Patterson that there were "thousands" of pieces of glass. An exaggeration, admittedly by the one testifying, but point being that there were many, many tiny little slivers of glass to pierce a running or walking foot going through there. No way to avoid stepping on the glass. You could see the big pieces, but no way someone could see all those tiny slivers to avoid them. You could hear them crunch though if you had shoes on.

I have to lean with the glass being broken after everything else was done and then she contained her position to the area near the family room entry until police arrived. She avoided the glass by avoiding the whole darned area after it was broken. That means the intruder could not have broken the glass.

Other proof is in the family's claims that LE tracked glass into the family room. They said that the carpet was full of little pieces of glass. I don't doubt it for one minute. All those boots going back and forth through the crime scene to do their jobs were bound to pick it up if there were "thousands" of little slivers everywhere. How can they say that Darlie could run back and forth through there several times and not get even one cut or one tiny sliver up into her foot (hurts like the devil by the way) yet LE tracked bunches of it into the family room? Can't have it both ways.

[deanws]

I just can't forget about the dog or that there was zero evidence of an intruder. No blood trail, not a drop outside the home as the "intruder" was running away.

Fortunately, most people don't know how to "stage" a successful crime scene to "blame another unknown person". But the people who are trained, have very good knowledge of what should be there at the scene and what is not.

If an unknown person stabs two kids and their mother, you can bet that he has blood on him and his shoes. But again, not a drop of blood anywhere else but the house.

What about the broken glasses under the vacuum. There was no cuts on Darlie and blood was under the broken glass. But that of course is impossible as Darlie claimed that she was cut and bleeding, ran after the "intruder" and the glass broke in front of her. So again, why was her blood under the glass.

Also Darlie "claims" that she had to step on the glass to "chase" the intruder, but again, no cuts on her feet. It was also brought forward that Darlie did not run through the kitchen, but walked. So now she walked after the "intruder".

Not to mention the kitchen clean up...........so as for the "Cult of Darlie" some people are "taken" in by others and "convinced" that an innocent person is in Prison. They seems to be naive to me.............

I look at facts, not stories.......evidence, not futher "self serving" stories.

Please.Good post Cyber. :blowkiss:

[deanws]

Hi, CyberLaw! Glad you stopped by.

I have been reading the bond hearing testimony and it was testified to by first responders and Detective Patterson that there were "thousands" of pieces of glass. An exaggeration, admittedly by the one testifying, but point being that there were many, many tiny little slivers of glass to pierce a running or walking foot going through there. No way to avoid stepping on the glass. You could see the big pieces, but no way someone could see all those tiny slivers to avoid them. You could hear them crunch though if you had shoes on.

I have to lean with the glass being broken after everything else was done and then she contained her position to the area near the family room entry until police arrived. She avoided the glass by avoiding the whole darned area after it was broken. That means the intruder could not have broken the glass.

Other proof is in the family's claims that LE tracked glass into the family room. They said that the carpet was full of little pieces of glass. I don't doubt it for one minute. All those boots going back and forth through the crime scene to do their jobs were bound to pick it up if there were "thousands" of little slivers everywhere. How can they say that Darlie could run back and forth through there several times and not get even one cut or one tiny sliver up into her foot (hurts like the devil by the way) yet LE tracked bunches of it into the family room? Can't have it both ways.

You can if you are a member of the Darlie Cult. :laugh: Also, the excuse of her feet being tough from going barefoot all the time is a laugh. I go barefoot most of the time when I am at home myself. My feet are almost as thick as soles on the bottom too! However, when I step on a thorn outside, or a sharp pebble or shard of glass, my feet cut and bleed like everyone's feet. I couldn't believe when I read their excuse for her feet not being injured.:laugh:

[Dani_T]

I have to take the fiber evidence with a grain of salt since there is a possiblity of it being from the brush itself. The further complete testing should have been done and should be included in that list of stuff that requires further looks.

This would be some very conclusive evidence, that an expert could say yes this screen or a screen just like it.

I hope it is done.

If you look at the screen fibre evidence carefully and completely you will see that the the possibility that what was found on the knife was from the brush (whether part of the brush itself or supposedly picked up from dusting of the screen) is not valid.

[beesy]

I have to take the fiber evidence with a grain of salt since there is a possiblity of it being from the brush itself. The further complete testing should have been done and should be included in that list of stuff that requires further looks. This would be some very conclusive evidence, that an expert could say yes this screen or a screen just like it.I hope it is done. The fiber and little particles on the bread knife is very important evidence, possibly the smoking gun. It should not be taken with a grain of salt. I seriously doubt the defense would have tested it anyway. Haven't you noticed how they steer clear of the very important pieces of evidence? The screen fiber is not mentioned in her appeals(I don't think). It's something thrown around by people like Chris. There are pictures of it in MTJD. The argument she has is that there wasn't enough left to test. Her team should have an expert they hire look at the results, just to see if they came to the same conclusion. No, they can't do their own tests, but looking at the other results would still show something. I suspect they have had others look at the results.

[beesy]

I[QUOTE] would not poopoo the two knife theory if I could find a logical reason for two knifes to exist. It doesn't make sense for someone to bring a knife and not use it, or for more than one intruder to be in a house and not kill everyone in it, including those on the second floor. Additionally I cannot justify two people all over the family room and kitchen without breaking up a lot of stuff, without leaving their dna in the house somewhere, without getting blood on themselves and on other things as they fled, without leaving at least one good print somewhere, esp if they are leaving partials in blood. Plus if you have two guys, you have at least two girlfriends somewhere who likely know about it, and even they aren't talking. How lucky do these guys get?????
Most likely they would have split up, as has happened in other crimes when everyone in the house is murdered. Like you said, rounded everybody up, probably would have had a gun as well. That room was packed with furniture, then you have 2 boys on the floor, yet they didn't knock any of Darlie's pretty things over. Darlie did not want any of her things broken. Just think, she could only make herself break one wineglass, but she was able to wipe out TWO young lives!
And Jane even said before that criminals talk. They do talk! They get high or drunk and spill the beans, possibly even bragging about it. I mean, what hot shots, got away with murder and someone else is dying for them! Also by now, these creeps probably would have been arrested(or someone they told) for something else and could have used the Routier murders as leverage.

The bread knife was used to cut the screen. You know, they had homemade bread that night. It is likely that knife was used then and washed before this crime even happened. If so, there is only one place it could have picked up the screen fiber....from the screen
I didn't know it had been used that evening. It might have even been sitting out, or in the sink. Maybe that's why it was grabbed instead of a sharper knife.

[beesy]

Include in your experiment wearing a sock on your hand. I'm wondering if it would have slipped too much for her to use as a "glove".

[Goody]

You can if you are a member of the Darlie Cult. :laugh: Also, the excuse of her feet being tough from going barefoot all the time is a laugh. I go barefoot most of the time when I am at home myself. My feet are almost as thick as soles on the bottom too! However, when I step on a thorn outside, or a sharp pebble or shard of glass, my feet cut and bleed like everyone's feet. I couldn't believe when I read their excuse for her feet not being injured.:laugh:
Maybe reading comprehension is not their strong suit. <sigh> O, well, nobody is perfect.

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

I always wondered about the sock too. The amount of blood on it however leads me to conclude that - a right handed person would get more blood on the sock if worn on the right hand while stabbing. Could this be worn on the left hand?

What are your conclusions since I'm not considered intelligent enough to come to any on my own. :blowkiss:
Would you folks like me to include socks as the possible "glove" during a reinactment.

[Jeana (DP)]

I always wondered about the sock too. The amount of blood on it however leads me to conclude that - a right handed person would get more blood on the sock if worn on the right hand while stabbing. Could this be worn on the left hand?

What are your conclusions since I'm not considered intelligent enough to come to any on my own. :blowkiss:
Would you folks like me to include socks as the possible "glove" during a reinactment.

Go for it! I personally never believed the sock was used for much of anything except a plant, but feel free!

[txsvicki]

Include in your experiment wearing a sock on your hand. I'm wondering if it would have slipped too much for her to use as a "glove".

Was the sock ever tested for saliva? I wonder if Darlie used the sock as a gag for one/ or both of boys to prevent loud screaming as she initially stabbed them? It seems that they were trying to suggest that Darlie may have been gagged with it but maybe she wasn't the one who was gagged.

[KatiesMom]

Maybe she used it to "bite" down on while she slashed her own throat.

[Goody]

I always wondered about the sock too. The amount of blood on it however leads me to conclude that - a right handed person would get more blood on the sock if worn on the right hand while stabbing. Could this be worn on the left hand?

What are your conclusions since I'm not considered intelligent enough to come to any on my own. :blowkiss:
Would you folks like me to include socks as the possible "glove" during a reinactment.
The reading comprehension remark was not directed at you but at some of the old hardcore supporters who ignore any evidence that points to guilt. You are at least willing to toss it around.

Personally I don't think the sock was used to avoid fingerprints or blood. If it was worn, I think it was on the feet. There should not have been much blood on the floor until after the most of the staging was done, working under the assumption that one thing happened after another in a short period. I am not sure how you would include it in your reenactments but feel free if you want to. You might be able to rule out ways it could have been used.

[Goody]

Was the sock ever tested for saliva? I wonder if Darlie used the sock as a gag for one/ or both of boys to prevent loud screaming as she initially stabbed them? It seems that they were trying to suggest that Darlie may have been gagged with it but maybe she wasn't the one who was gagged.
The sock was tested for dna. It a small amount of the boys blood, each in different spots, and Darlie's dna, which may have been saliva or skin cells. However, the dna was only in trace amounts. I would think more than a trace would show up if she actually had the thing in her mouth for substantial period of time. Also since none of her blood is on the sock, it seems unlikely that she was bleeding near it. That would pretty much rule of your theory. Not entirely since anything is possible but I don't see anything supporting the idea that she had the sock in her mouth. (Supporters think the intruder gagged her with the sock and that she passed out which is why she doesn't remember the murders. That makes one ask....what about the hypnosis session then?)

[beesy]

Maybe she used it to "bite" down on while she slashed her own throat. That's what I was thinking. But her DNA was found inside the sock, so unless it was turned inside out, then that doesn't make sense either. Shucks, and I liked that idea.

[beesy]

Go for it! I personally never believed the sock was used for much of anything except a plant, but feel free! But, what about the trace amount of Darlie's DNA found inside the sock? Maybe she put it on her hand then dipped it into the boys' blood? Maybe she thought she'd have more control of how much got on the sock if she had it on her hand. But why would she care about that? Grrr, another puzzle.

[deanws]

But, what about the trace amount of Darlie's DNA found inside the sock? Maybe she put it on her hand then dipped it into the boys' blood? Maybe she thought she'd have more control of how much got on the sock if she had it on her hand. But why would she care about that? Grrr, another puzzle. See beesy...that is just the kind of stuff that drives me crazy about this case. So many, many different pieces that just don't fit.:doh: By the way, I liked the biting theory myself. :) Who knows WHY those two did what they did.:banghead:

[Goody]

The fiber and little particles on the bread knife is very important evidence, possibly the smoking gun. It should not be taken with a grain of salt. I seriously doubt the defense would have tested it anyway. Haven't you noticed how they steer clear of the very important pieces of evidence? The screen fiber is not mentioned in her appeals(I don't think). It's something thrown around by people like Chris. There are pictures of it in MTJD. The argument she has is that there wasn't enough left to test. Her team should have an expert they hire look at the results, just to see if they came to the same conclusion. No, they can't do their own tests, but looking at the other results would still show something. I suspect they have had others look at the results.
What are the odds that a fingerprint brush would drop a fiber particle on the knife during dusting and that fiber particle would get snagged by the serrated edging???? NONE! The knife would have had to have been cutting something or pressing into something so that one of the serrations could snag a piece of it. No one with any objectivity could discount that evidence after analyzing it closely. It is very, very telling.

[Goody]

But, what about the trace amount of Darlie's DNA found inside the sock? Maybe she put it on her hand then dipped it into the boys' blood? Maybe she thought she'd have more control of how much got on the sock if she had it on her hand. But why would she care about that? Grrr, another puzzle.
If she had done that she would have put a lot more blood on it than was found. I don't think the blood got on the sock intentionally. I didn't agree with the FBI profiler for a long time, but eventually I came to the same conclusion he did, at least about some individual points. If the sock has been planted, it would be close to the house, not so far away it might not be found. If the blood on the sock had been planted on it, there would be more blood than was needed, not less. I really do think that the sock was part of a throw away in that sewer and it fell by the wayside accidently. It is the only reasonable conclusion, all things considered. Anyone interested might want to read Brant's testimony.

[Dani_T]

What are the odds that a fingerprint brush would drop a fiber particle on the knife during dusting and that fiber particle would get snagged by the serrated edging???? NONE! The knife would have had to have been cutting something or pressing into something so that one of the serrations could snag a piece of it. No one with any objectivity could discount that evidence after analyzing it closely. It is very, very telling.

Not only that Goody but it was two separate distinguishable bits of evidence - the fibreglass rod and the pigmented rubber debris. That means that the brush had to pick up both pieces of evidence separately and then deposit them both on the knife at the same time.... oh and it also requires Hamilton brushed the knife at the house and he goes through every item he brushed in detail and the knife block/knives were not included.

Very, very telling indeed :)

[Goody]

Not only that Goody but it was two separate distinguishable bits of evidence - the fibreglass rod and the pigmented rubber debris. That means that the brush had to pick up both pieces of evidence separately and then deposit them both on the knife at the same time.... oh and it also requires Hamilton brushed the knife at the house and he goes through every item he brushed in detail and the knife block/knives were not included.

Very, very telling indeed :)
Correct. The closer you look at it, the more improbable it is. I believe there is evidence that the knives were dusted at the lab, not at the scene at all. So there is no way Hamilton could have deposited the both items right into the serrated edges of that knife, let alone do it in such a way that the serrated edges would snag them.

[deanws]

Somebody say something! :p

[Goody]

Somebody say something! :p
Something.

[deanws]

Something.:D I should have know better than that huh? LOL. I was getting bored.:o

[Jeana (DP)]

But, what about the trace amount of Darlie's DNA found inside the sock? Maybe she put it on her hand then dipped it into the boys' blood? Maybe she thought she'd have more control of how much got on the sock if she had it on her hand. But why would she care about that? Grrr, another puzzle.

She may have been wearing it that night or earlier in the day. It was, IMO, grabbed off a laundry pile, so anything is possible.

[Goody]

:D I should have know better than that huh? LOL. I was getting bored.:o
LOL! So was I. Posts are getting thin around here.

[beesy]

[QUOTE]No Dani. I know what Chris used to change Barbara's mind. He got me with it for a while too. He had a photo of the u-room door print, and the Patterson's kid's book in sheet. (supposedly) And she said she saw photos of the bruises which she had never seen before. I've been wondering if now that she has some distance from Chris. I think she does because in the last documentary I saw, he was called her "source" Anyway, maybe she has sort of come to her senses, realized she was drawn in by him and has changed her mind again. I don't think she could ever say that publically, but maybe she would and blame Chris. Have you spoken with her recently?
Looked real as hell by the way. He gave me the glass, and I identified it as Chad's (supposedly) middle finger top of second inner knuckle. No problem. The only problem was that that he kept the book in card folded over so that I couldn't see the name, but later revealed it as well as Chad's criminal history.
I've heard about this stuff with Patterson's son, but I don't know much about it. Could you explain all of this to me? The wine glass? He faked a print? I'm sure it is hard to talk to Chris and not fall into his trap. You don't even have to talk to him to believe all of his mess in MTJD. By the way, do you know why he cares enough to produce false evidence? Why go to all the trouble? Do you think he's just playing with us and he really thinks she did it? Like faking Big Foot footprints or an alien autopsy. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_1.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZN)

[Goody]

And she said she saw photos of the bruises which she had never seen before. I've been wondering if now that she has some distance from Chris. I think she does because in the last documentary I saw, he was called her "source" Anyway, maybe she has sort of come to her senses, realized she was drawn in by him and has changed her mind again. I don't think she could ever say that publically, but maybe she would and blame Chris. Have you spoken with her recently?

I've heard about this stuff with Patterson's son, but I don't know much about it. Could you explain all of this to me? The wine glass? He faked a print? I'm sure it is hard to talk to Chris and not fall into his trap. You don't even have to talk to him to believe all of his mess in MTJD. By the way, do you know why he cares enough to produce false evidence? Why go to all the trouble? Do you think he's just playing with us and he really thinks she did it? Like faking Big Foot footprints or an alien autopsy. http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_1_1.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZN)
Well, gee, beesy, he thinks he is a writer and if he can come up with the solution to this case in any area, it is worth one book deal. You gotta think like these amateur sleuths do. Some don't care if the facts are factual, just how much they can manipulate it to LOOK factual, and then how much is it worth $$$-wise to do so. Shoot, if Chris could have convinced people he had the identifying print....."for awhile he'd go in style" on every talk show in the country. LOL!

[beesy]

Well, gee, beesy, he thinks he is a writer and if he can come up with the solution to this case in any area, it is worth one book deal. You gotta think like these amateur sleuths do. Some don't care if the facts are factual, just how much they can manipulate it to LOOK factual, and then how much is it worth $$$-wise to do so. Shoot, if Chris could have convinced people he had the identifying print....."for awhile he'd go in style" on every talk show in the country. LOL! I know he "wrote" it for money. It still would have sold if he wasn't on her side. People buy it because of the pictures. That's not what I asked. Chris went to alot of trouble faking evidence and misleading readers. I asked dasgal if he really cares about Darlie and believes in her or is he playing a prank? It's one thing to mislead because you believe in that person. So did he create all of this fake crap to lure people in to help her or just so he could enjoy a chuckle? Does he make crop circles in his spare time too?

[Goody]

I know he "wrote" it for money. It still would have sold if he was on her side. People buy it because of the pictures. That's not what I asked. Chris went to alot of trouble faking evidence and misleading readers. I asked dasgal if he really cares about Darlie and believes in her or is he playing a prank? It's one thing to mislead because you believe in that person. So did he create all of this fake crap to lure people in to help her or just so he could enjoy a chuckle? Does he make crop circles in his spare time too?
I think she said he was a character who liked to play tricks on people who should be able to catch him at it. If you will go back and read her post again, I think you will find your answer.

[beesy]

I think she said he was a character who liked to play tricks on people who should be able to catch him at it. If you will go back and read her post again, I think you will find your answer. I did read it. That is why I asked the question because she said he was a jokester. It doesn't answer if he really cares about Darlie or if he is ONLY playing a joke. That's what my question is.

[Goody]

I did read it. That is why I asked the question because she said he was a jokester. It doesn't answer if he really cares about Darlie or if he is ONLY playing a joke. That's what my question is.
I understand he is in tight with Darin's parents, so what does that tell you? I think it would be in CWB's best interests to prove Darlie innocent. That is probably why he tries so hard. Is he because he cares about her? Maybe but I suspect that might be limited to how much supporting her would endanger Darin. That is probably where his real loyalties lie. Just guessing though.

[cami]

Include in your experiment wearing a sock on your hand. I'm wondering if it would have slipped too much for her to use as a "glove".

I used to think that....not sure anymore....though. That sock sure is a mystery, isn't it. What was it used for? AAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH.

I wonder if Darlie used it to pick up the wine glass and knock the lamp shade down, obscuring her fingerprints on both items. But why would she get rid of it? If it was a plant, wouldn't she make sure her blood was on it as well?

[dasgal]

Let me be perfectly clear.........Chris wrote this book for three reasons....He "kinda" thinks she "might" be innocent and wanted something from that standpoint. Chris likes to make money. If you think all the money from his books is going to Darlie, you are nuts. What he sends her defense fund is the "profits". That's after he's had what he wants. But last of all, Chris (besides his spelling) is VERY smart. He told me once over Sushi that he likes to see how stupid people can be. He likes to try to outsmart people just to see how gullible they are. I've bagged him many times, publically, and he laughes about how funny it is that someone caught him in his B.S.
I've tried to explain many times how Chris is. He's actually a friend of mine....because he's quirky. I know people like to assume he's a total moron, but that's part of the joke. He's TRYING to make people he deems as stupid..fall for it.
I know it's not appropriate under the circumstances, but he's got this inside joke going..........how much will people buy? From a journalistic standpoint, not a bad question. People believe what they read. (especially if it is heavily manipulated) This is what he is trying to prove. I keep saying this over and over again, but there is so much hate out there for him, that no one seems to know what the heck I am talking about. He's pulling chains, folks.....to see if it is purchased. It's a sociological experiment. Maybe in bad taste, but a good experiment all the same.

[beesy]

Let me be perfectly clear.........Chris wrote this book for three reasons....He "kinda" thinks she "might" be innocent and wanted something from that standpoint. Chris likes to make money. If you think all the money from his books is going to Darlie, you are nuts. What he sends her defense fund is the "profits". That's after he's had what he wants. But last of all, Chris (besides his spelling) is VERY smart. He told me once over Sushi that he likes to see how stupid people can be. He likes to try to outsmart people just to see how gullible they are. I've bagged him many times, publically, and he laughes about how funny it is that someone caught him in his B.S.
I've tried to explain many times how Chris is. He's actually a friend of mine....because he's quirky. I know people like to assume he's a total moron, but that's part of the joke. He's TRYING to make people he deems as stupid..fall for it.
I know it's not appropriate under the circumstances, but he's got this inside joke going..........how much will people buy? From a journalistic standpoint, not a bad question. People believe what they read. (especially if it is heavily manipulated) This is what he is trying to prove. I keep saying this over and over again, but there is so much hate out there for him, that no one seems to know what the heck I am talking about. He's pulling chains, folks.....to see if it is purchased. It's a sociological experiment. Maybe in bad taste, but a good experiment all the same. Great post! You answered my questions completely! Thank you

[SanQuentinvisitor]

Let me be perfectly clear.........Chris wrote this book for three reasons....He "kinda" thinks she "might" be innocent and wanted something from that standpoint. Chris likes to make money. If you think all the money from his books is going to Darlie, you are nuts. What he sends her defense fund is the "profits". That's after he's had what he wants. But last of all, Chris (besides his spelling) is VERY smart. He told me once over Sushi that he likes to see how stupid people can be. He likes to try to outsmart people just to see how gullible they are. I've bagged him many times, publically, and he laughes about how funny it is that someone caught him in his B.S.
I've tried to explain many times how Chris is. He's actually a friend of mine....because he's quirky. I know people like to assume he's a total moron, but that's part of the joke. He's TRYING to make people he deems as stupid..fall for it.
I know it's not appropriate under the circumstances, but he's got this inside joke going..........how much will people buy? From a journalistic standpoint, not a bad question. People believe what they read. (especially if it is heavily manipulated) This is what he is trying to prove. I keep saying this over and over again, but there is so much hate out there for him, that no one seems to know what the heck I am talking about. He's pulling chains, folks.....to see if it is purchased. It's a sociological experiment. Maybe in bad taste, but a good experiment all the same.I totally understand what you mean because I think that "Marlene" is doing the same thing in the Peterson case..........Not a dumb woman by any means but she is taking pleasure in 'convincing' people of her ridiculous theories, like Chris...............Poor taste is a good description and cancels out any other possible motive or reason for motive.........

[deanws]

I total understand what you mean because I think that "Marlene" is doing the same thing in the Peterson case..........Not a dumb woman by any means but she is taking pleasure in 'convincing' people of her ridiculous theories, like Chris...............Poor taste is a good description and cancels out any other possible motive or reason for motive.........I guess that explains his horrible book. The pictures were good, but the rest was crap. LOL. Of course, I guess he does have the last laugh since he made money from it.:waitasec:

[txsvicki]

Why weren't more of his book printed and put out to the public? I wouldn't buy one since people say it's so bad, but did he really make very much money on this limited book? He sounds sort of strange. I wonder if he's written any more crime books.

[dasgal]

Hi Vicki,

I don't know how much he made but he used a local publishing house. Don't know which one though. I think the book sold more than he thought it would, just from people interested in the case.
Last I heard he was working on the WM3.....don't know how that turned out. He's written no other crime books.

[Goody]

Hi Vicki,

I don't know how much he made but he used a local publishing house. Don't know which one though. I think the book sold more than he thought it would, just from people interested in the case.
Last I heard he was working on the WM3.....don't know how that turned out. He's written no other crime books.
I thought it was self published.

Does he post on the forums?

[deanws]

Why weren't more of his book printed and put out to the public? I wouldn't buy one since people say it's so bad, but did he really make very much money on this limited book? He sounds sort of strange. I wonder if he's written any more crime books.Tx, I asked Jim if you could use his book..but it is missing in action. He thinks the mail lost it. Sorry.

[Mary456]

I thought it was self published.

Does he post on the forums?

I believe it was self published, Goody. On the inside cover of the book it mentions "McIntosh Press International", but I can't find a thing about them on the internet. Sounds like maybe that was the company which printed his abominable writing. A copy machine, so to speak LOL!

This is interesting, though. CWB credits Saundra Kreeger for the title of the book. Both Saundra and Anne Good (don't get me started on Anne Good!) are associated with Morning Star Ministries. They publish the "Justice Denied" magazine, and would like to open the door of every prison so that convicted murderers can get out and come live next door to you.

No problem...they're all wrongfully convicted. They're all innocent!

[Goody]

I believe it was self published, Goody. On the inside cover of the book it mentions "McIntosh Press International", but I can't find a thing about them on the internet. Sounds like maybe that was the company which printed his abominable writing. A copy machine, so to speak LOL!

This is interesting, though. CWB credits Saundra Kreeger for the title of the book. Both Saundra and Anne Good (don't get me started on Anne Good!) are associated with Morning Star Ministries. They publish the "Justice Denied" magazine, and would like to open the door of every prison so that convicted murderers can get out and come live next door to you.

No problem...they're all wrongfully convicted. They're all innocent!
I am familiar with that bunch, too. They are more interested in furthering their cause than they are in fact or truth. I think they would have a stronger argument if they focused on those who really are wrongly convicted, but I guess it is too hard to find them.

[txsvicki]

Tx, I asked Jim if you could use his book..but it is missing in action. He thinks the mail lost it. Sorry.


Well, phooey. Thanks for asking. Hope he can eventually find the book since the value of them are going up so much and no more made.

[Jeana (DP)]

Well, phooey. Thanks for asking. Hope he can eventually find the book since the value of them are going up so much and no more made.


Someone wants to offer me over $500, they can buy mine!

[cami]

Someone wants to offer me over $500, they can buy mine!

LOL mine too, in US dollars please.

[Goody]

Someone wants to offer me over $500, they can buy mine!
Who would pay that in the real world?

OJ's books aren't even worth that. Surely that is wishful thinking on the part of CWB. Maybe it is some PR effort to make her appear more popular than she is to make her story more valuable in the future. I can't imagine it working though.

[WindChime]

I just wanted to bump this thread .

[Dena]

And thank you because it's a good read.

[cami]

And thank you because it's a good read.

Yes and there's Ms Goody's post...one of the last. I sure miss her...we always watched Big Brother together. I know she's watching from Heaven. Ed is doing okay, if anyone is interested.

[Jeana (DP)]

Yes and there's Ms Goody's post...one of the last. I sure miss her...we always watched Big Brother together. I know she's watching from Heaven. Ed is doing okay, if anyone is interested.

I had to smile when I saw that post from her!!! I'm glad that Ed is doing okay. Please send him our love.

[dasgal]

Someone wants to offer me over $500, they can buy mine!


Oh crap and I used to have a whole bag full of them....(that I gave to internet folks who never returned them.)

I could have been rich like Darlie. LOL

[dasgal]

I thought it was self published.

Does he post on the forums?


He used to post on WS and another forum a loooong time ago. He would talk his bs, and I would catch him in it, and he'd have a good laugh.
Jeana, do you know if the archives go back that far?

[dasgal]

Was the sock ever tested for saliva? I wonder if Darlie used the sock as a gag for one/ or both of boys to prevent loud screaming as she initially stabbed them? It seems that they were trying to suggest that Darlie may have been gagged with it but maybe she wasn't the one who was gagged.

A few things that are not readily understood about the sock...... Darlie's SKIN CELLS were found on them...not saliva. Her skin cells were found on the inside in the heel area, while the boys blood was found on the outside. This means that she was wearing the sock at the time of the murder. I sometime wear my hubbies socks at night too.
It also goes hand in hand with the fully laced basketball shoe. There is a whole lot to this, not just snippets.

[JimPence]

Tx, I asked Jim if you could use his book..but it is missing in action. He thinks the mail lost it. Sorry.

My copy actually did show up after being lost in the mail system for SIX MONTHS! How's that for snail mail?

It is now in London, England, being enjoyed by a British WSer.

Blessings,
Jim

[Jeana (DP)]

He used to post on WS and another forum a loooong time ago. He would talk his bs, and I would catch him in it, and he'd have a good laugh.
Jeana, do you know if the archives go back that far?

No, unfortunately they do not.