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View Full Version : neighbor says he passed a LDT (husband of SB)



nursebeeme
11-03-2011, 08:22 PM
http://www.kctv5.com/story/15953146/neighbor-says

you can discuss this article here.. but mods and administrators have decided that we will not be sleuthing this individual: this includes facebook, other social media, etc. This rule will also be added to the etiquette stickie here in Lisa's forum. Thanks for you cooperation

belimom
11-03-2011, 08:26 PM
From that article (bbm):


Police focused on Brando's husband because he had moved out of his home just hours before Irwin went missing, CNN reported. The couple had marital problems.

I have no idea if this person plays a role anywhere in Lisa's disappearance, but I do find it interesting that there were a lot of things that night that were out of the norm:

- JI working late
- lights on
- doors unlocked
- stray kitten
- boys in bed with DB
- and now -- the neighbor leaving home earlier that afternoon

(I'm sure I'm missing something but that's what I could think of off the top of my head)

Mountain_Kat
11-03-2011, 08:44 PM
He says he passed a poly, and LE says they have moved on from him, so JB really isn't of any interest to me personally.

One less thread I have to try to wade through. (Whew!)

Wendy101
11-03-2011, 08:54 PM
Good thing he passed the poly .... IMO..he could have fit the description of one of the sightings...also IMO.. he could have been mistaken for "jersey" in the dark... Glad that these two are in the clear, JI is in the clear ... that leaves the 3 women of these 3 mens lives....

norest4thewicked
11-03-2011, 08:57 PM
Good thing he passed the poly .... IMO..he could have fit the description of one of the sightings...also IMO.. he could have been mistaken for "jersey" in the dark... Glad that these two are in the clear, JI is in the clear ... that leaves the 3 women of these 3 mens lives....

I don't necessarily feel that JI is in the clear.

Wendy101
11-03-2011, 09:07 PM
I don't necessarily feel that JI is in the clear.

:furious: YUp, I am starting to believe he is involved with the covering up of DB's actions...

Mountain_Kat
11-03-2011, 09:13 PM
Good thing he passed the poly .... IMO..he could have fit the description of one of the sightings...also IMO.. he could have been mistaken for "jersey" in the dark... Glad that these two are in the clear, JI is in the clear ... that leaves the 3 women of these 3 mens lives....

Well, I still want to know who this other neighbor was the SB sat outside chatting with until 11:30. We haven't heard one word about him or her. Didn't even know he or she existed until yesterday.

~n/t~
11-03-2011, 09:21 PM
Wonder who else was polygraphed. If he's the only one out of the whole slew of characters, why? Why not the soon to be ex wife? Why not MW? Why not DB's brother Phil?

Wonder if Jersey was? Well, I guess it doesn't matter. He's in jail anyway.

Quizzical
11-03-2011, 09:29 PM
Well, I still want to know who this other neighbor was the SB sat outside chatting with until 11:30. We haven't heard one word about him or her. Didn't even know he or she existed until yesterday.

IIRC during the Megyn Kelley interview, DB mentions that the neighbors said she turned the lights out.

MsDetective
11-03-2011, 09:30 PM
A source familiar with the case earlier this week told KCTV5 that Brando and her 4-year-old daughter were inside baby Lisa's home about 4:30 p.m. Oct. 3. Bradley told People magazine that she cooked dinner for her family, Brando and her daughter, which they shared
http://www.kctv5.com/story/15953146/neighbor-say

So did SB see LI at dinner?

Mountain_Kat
11-03-2011, 09:33 PM
Wonder who else was polygraphed. If he's the only one out of the whole slew of characters, why? Why not the soon to be ex wife? Why not MW? Why not DB's brother Phil?

Wonder if Jersey was? Well, I guess it doesn't matter. He's in jail anyway.

Why not Jeremy Irwin, for that matter. Even if he does have a rock solid alibi, I would still think LE would like him to take a poly and answer the question, "Do you know what happened to Lisa?".

Seems odd that the only polygraphs we've heard about are DB's and JB's. But then, we wouldn't even know about those if they themselves hadn't told us. LE isn't talking. Period.

~n/t~
11-03-2011, 09:35 PM
Why not Jeremy Irwin, for that matter. Even if he does have a rock solid alibi, I would still think LE would like him to take a poly and answer the question, "Do you know what happened to Lisa?".

Seems odd that the only polygraphs we've heard about are DB's and JB's. But then, we wouldn't even know about those if they themselves hadn't told us. LE isn't talking. Period.

I think MW would tell us. She told us everything else, kwim? :innocent:

Mountain_Kat
11-03-2011, 09:37 PM
I think MW would tell us. She told us everything else, kwim? :innocent:

Well, I don't think she'd tell us if she failed one...but yeah, your point is taken. LOL!

katydid23
11-03-2011, 09:38 PM
A source familiar with the case earlier this week told KCTV5 that Brando and her 4-year-old daughter were inside baby Lisa's home about 4:30 p.m. Oct. 3. Bradley told People magazine that she cooked dinner for her family, Brando and her daughter, which they shared
http://www.kctv5.com/story/15953146/neighbor-say

So did SB see LI at dinner?

That ^^^ is a really good question and it really bothers me still. The most recent timeline, the NBC one that has it's own thread here, says that the neighbor last saw Lisa at 4;30 in her crib. WTH? That is a small house. And she had dinner inside at 5;30. And she did not see Lisa then? So was the baby left in her room from 4:30 on? That is a long time for an infant to be in her crib, from 4;30 pm to the next morning.

Melanie
11-03-2011, 09:40 PM
:furious: YUp, I am starting to believe he is involved with the covering up of DB's actions...

LE gave the neighbor a poly, but not the bio daddy? :waitasec: I thought it was LE's standard OP to hand out poly's to the parents in order to clear them, rule them out, and move on.

I don't think JI is involved, but that doesn't mean that DB hasn't divulged anything since that night. Even the question: do you know where baby Lisa is could be very relevant at this point in time. If he's covering for DB for any reason, LE should know about it.

Just my opinion.

Mel

cachmo
11-03-2011, 09:58 PM
Are MPs taught how to pass a polly?

sorrell skye
11-03-2011, 10:01 PM
LE gave the neighbor a poly, but not the bio daddy? :waitasec: I thought it was LE's standard OP to hand out poly's to the parents in order to clear them, rule them out, and move on.

I don't think JI is involved, but that doesn't mean that DB hasn't divulged anything since that night. Even the question: do you know where baby Lisa is could be very relevant at this point in time. If he's covering for DB for any reason, LE should know about it.

Just my opinion.

Mel

BBM

In the Hailey Dunn case, it was reported that HD's father, Clint Dunn, wasn't asked to take a poly (he said he volunteered to take one, but said that LE told him it wasn't necessary), even though he lived just across the field from her & was home on the day she went missing. His live-in girlfriend (who was also home that day) wasn't asked to take a poly, either, IIRC.

norest4thewicked
11-03-2011, 10:03 PM
Are MPs taught how to pass a polly?

Absolutely not! But, they must take a poly and pass it to be Security Forces in the Air Force.

AlmostGone
11-03-2011, 10:08 PM
That ^^^ is a really good question and it really bothers me still. The most recent timeline, the NBC one that has it's own thread here, says that the neighbor last saw Lisa at 4;30 in her crib. WTH? That is a small house. And she had dinner inside at 5;30. And she did not see Lisa then? So was the baby left in her room from 4:30 on? That is a long time for an infant to be in her crib, from 4;30 pm to the next morning.

I wonder if the neighbor asked about the baby after they went outside.. i would of asked about the baby...maybe even ask if she wanted me to check..weird imo

cachmo
11-03-2011, 10:13 PM
Absolutely not! But, they must take a poly and pass it to be Security Forces in the Air Force.

Thank you!! I had no idea.
I do know that some do go through special training in case they become POW
again Thank You

katydid23
11-03-2011, 10:16 PM
I wonder if the neighbor asked about the baby after they went outside.. i would of asked about the baby...maybe even ask if she wanted me to check..weird imo

Me too. And they left a 4 yr old, a 5 yr old and an 8 yr old together to play. Something tells me they had to go in and monitor a few situations. My kids would have been running around, spilling things, knocking things over if left for 4 hours alone like that,especially when showing off for the neighbor girl.

So it makes sense the neighbor would stick her head in and check on a sick baby. I would.

AlmostGone
11-03-2011, 10:20 PM
Me too. And they left a 4 yr old, a 5 yr old and an 8 yr old together to play. Something tells me they had to go in and monitor a few situations. My kids would have been running around, spilling things, knocking things over if left for 4 hours alone like that,especially when showing off for the neighbor girl.

So it makes sense the neighbor would stick her head in and check on a sick baby. I would.

How did they not wake the baby? Unless they did and everyone ignored the poor little girl...

MsDetective
11-03-2011, 10:22 PM
Me too. And they left a 4 yr old, a 5 yr old and an 8 yr old together to play. Something tells me they had to go in and monitor a few situations. My kids would have been running around, spilling things, knocking things over if left for 4 hours alone like that,especially when showing off for the neighbor girl.

So it makes sense the neighbor would stick her head in and check on a sick baby. I would.

Or use the bathroom.

norest4thewicked
11-03-2011, 10:25 PM
How did they not wake the baby? Unless they did and everyone ignored the poor little girl...

Good question! Maybe Lisa wasn't there...or, if she was there...she was unable to cry out. It's heartbreaking to think this, but it is a big possibility.

katydid23
11-03-2011, 10:31 PM
How did they not wake the baby? Unless they did and everyone ignored the poor little girl...

EXACTLY! That has always bothered me. My daughter is 4 yrs younger than my son and she would never want to go to sleep when the cousins were over playing with him. We had to bribe them to be really really quiet so she would fall asleep. But if the moms were out on the stoop, I don't think those 3 kids were going to stay too quiet. I do not believe they sat silently and watched a 'fairytale' video. I sure never saw 3 kids do that.

So, imo, Lisa was going to be crying at some point. She had been in the crib since 4:30 for the most part. I cannot believe she was going to go right back to sleep. maybe, but i don't know. Mom already said she had 'been fussy.'

Abby Normal
11-03-2011, 10:43 PM
Unless the kids WERE really into a movie or two. I know some kids don't watch much TV, but some kids do. If they played together all the time, the novelty of being together wouldn't be overwhelming for anyone involved.

IMO, regarding JB, only JB said he passed. Just as I'm not taking DB at her word on hers, I'm not going to take him at his word either. Aside from that, I would not be surprised if someone as "into" security as he seems to be, wouldn't know at least some tricks for passing one.

NOTE: I'm not implicating him. I don't have an opinion. I'm just not going to eliminate him because he said I should, kwim?

ThoughtFox
11-03-2011, 10:44 PM
How did they not wake the baby? Unless they did and everyone ignored the poor little girl...

Well, I can only speak from experience with my own life, but my kids could sleep through a tornado (and sometimes did). Especially my youngest who had two very noisy older siblings but hardly ever woke up once he fell asleep. They weren't allowed to go into his room, though.

But I agree that this child had to wake up at some point between 4:30 and the next morning. That's too long for even a young child to sleep. I've known some parents who put babies down at 7 p.m. but they expected them to wake really early in the morning. My kids usually slept from about 10 p.m. till 6 a.m., and as babies would then take a morning nap. For other kids, it might be different.

The little girl possibly being sick throws all the schedules into question, I guess, but I would like to know why the Mom thought she would have so much free time to get drunk that night? Except for the fact that Daddy wasn't home, I don't get that. She was in charge with no one to help her - it doesn't seem right. :twocents:

Dr.Fessel
11-03-2011, 11:01 PM
Absolutely not! But, they must take a poly and pass it to be Security Forces in the Air Force. I worked in security in the army, we had a class on the fundamentals of LDT and were told how to beat them but we were told if they suspected you knew they could trip you up.

All you have to do is give them a screwy base line for the baseline test questions. You just have to think about something that will increase your physiological responses when they ask you the test questions like name, address, age and stuff.

sorrell skye
11-03-2011, 11:01 PM
EXACTLY! That has always bothered me. My daughter is 4 yrs younger than my son and she would never want to go to sleep when the cousins were over playing with him. We had to bribe them to be really really quiet so she would fall asleep. But if the moms were out on the stoop, I don't think those 3 kids were going to stay too quiet. I do not believe they sat silently and watched a 'fairytale' video. I sure never saw 3 kids do that.

So, imo, Lisa was going to be crying at some point. She had been in the crib since 4:30 for the most part. I cannot believe she was going to go right back to sleep. maybe, but i don't know. Mom already said she had 'been fussy.'

ITA Katy. Unsupervised little ones, no matter how docile & well behaved, tend to get a bit excited & rowdy when playing together. The sounds of Baby Lisa's brothers & the neighbor's little girl playing in the next bedroom would have more than likely awakened her @ some point (closed door or not - sound travels through walls).

IMO, Baby Lisa was medicated so that she would sleep through DB's "grown-up time".

cluciano63
11-03-2011, 11:20 PM
Does this couple have a baby Lisa's age? There is a comment on his FB page (which is open) dating late 2009 where he is congratulated on the upcoming baby...

Abby Normal
11-03-2011, 11:21 PM
I worked in security in the army, we had a class on the fundamentals of LDT and were told how to beat them but we were told if they suspected you knew they could trip you up.

All you have to do is give them a screwy base line for the baseline test questions. You just have to think about something that will increase your physiological responses when they ask you the test questions like name, address, age and stuff.

or put a tack in your shoe. :crazy:

Honestly, the information on how to pass is readily available for anyone with the interest or foresight. I don't give it any more merit than a mom going through trauma failing one... of COURSE she is going to have more of a physiological response to questions about a missing child than questions about her address. :waitasec: IMO it's best use is that of leverage in interrogation.

Abby Normal
11-03-2011, 11:26 PM
Does this couple have a baby Lisa's age? There is a comment on his FB page (which is open) dating late 2009 where he is congratulated on the upcoming baby...

People have wondered about that because Jeremy made that comment about "people who have had miscarriages..."

There is really no way to know what happened though, for all we know they had a rocky relationship and that congrats is due him and another woman. :silenced:

I'm channeling Ross as I say that. "We were on a break!"

carole
11-03-2011, 11:37 PM
People have wondered about that because Jeremy made that comment about "people who have had miscarriages..."

There is really no way to know what happened though, for all we know they had a rocky relationship and that congrats is due him and another woman. :silenced:

I'm channeling Ross as I say that. "We were on a break!"

BBM

What?? Where did you hear this? I haven't heard about this.

AlmostGone
11-03-2011, 11:37 PM
All I can say is my two year old wont go to bed if people or kids are over.. No way! Forget it!

Now a movie with children might help blur out the kids if they get silly and not wake the baby, maybe... But it's still a LOT of sleeping IMO for a baby...

IMO this baby had to wake up again by midnight if not earlier.. Is it possible a passerby heard a baby crying threw that open window, office window i think....Maybe?

At this point we can turn in so many directions but it's my opinion DB had something to do with this...

Abby Normal
11-03-2011, 11:44 PM
BBM

What?? Where did you hear this? I haven't heard about this.

BRB- I'll find a link. Very early in the case discussing the names they submitted to LE. I'll Edit this post when I have it :)

ETA- Around the 1:15 mark
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1213192088001

mck16
11-03-2011, 11:46 PM
Well, I can only speak from experience with my own life, but my kids could sleep through a tornado (and sometimes did). Especially my youngest who had two very noisy older siblings but hardly ever woke up once he fell asleep. They weren't allowed to go into his room, though.

But I agree that this child had to wake up at some point between 4:30 and the next morning. That's too long for even a young child to sleep. I've known some parents who put babies down at 7 p.m. but they expected them to wake really early in the morning. My kids usually slept from about 10 p.m. till 6 a.m., and as babies would then take a morning nap. For other kids, it might be different.

The little girl possibly being sick throws all the schedules into question, I guess, but I would like to know why the Mom thought she would have so much free time to get drunk that night? Except for the fact that Daddy wasn't home, I don't get that. She was in charge with no one to help her - it doesn't seem right. :twocents:

I have not been on for a few hours and I have obviously missed something. Has the timeline for DB putting Lisa to bed now become 4:30 instead of 6:40? And if so where did this information come from? tia

gitana1
11-04-2011, 12:24 AM
The fact that this man was investigated, looks like extensively, makes me feel satisfied that LE are looking at all angles. If they hone in on the parents alone, it will be hard to say they haven't done a thorough job.

twall
11-04-2011, 12:48 AM
This is from the Nancy Grace transcript from November 2nd, 2011-disregard first sentence, it's not relevent but I wanted to show that Spellman was speaking. IMO Mr. Brando is the person Mr. Thompson id'd from the photo. Do air force personnel wear all white? Also note Mr. Spellman's comment about the LE lingo. IMO he is spot on about that! What are they going to say...Verify he is on their radar and tip him off? I think not!

SPELLMAN: Well, "The National Enquirer" is reporting on some extramarital affairs she had with her husband, who she`s still married to, who`s in the service. This is when they lived elsewhere.

Nancy, I just want to -- I just want to mention something. Mike Thompson`s sighting of this man at 4:00 AM -- I`ve been working on this for the last few days, and I`ve met this man, who we`re not naming. But I want to tell you, I`ve just discovered in that last break, we can now report that he has denied to me -- that man that Mike Thompson saw has denied to me that he was there at that time. He says it`s not him. And I know it`s the same person. I showed a photograph to Mike Thompson. So I just want to put it out there that that man denies that it`s him.

GRACE: Is it true, Jim Spellman, that cops have spoken to the guy and have ruled him out?

SPELLMAN: They have spoken to him, yes, and they say -- this is the common language they use, that they have spoken to the person, he answered their questions, and they`ve moved on. They won`t say that they`ve cleared anyone. You know, "cleared" doesn`t really mean anything. They won`t say that. They keep open the avenue to always come back. But they have told us that, yes -- and in fact, they -- about that, that particular individual in relation to that sighting.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1111/02/ng.01.html

Wendy101
11-04-2011, 01:08 AM
This is from the Nancy Grace transcript from November 2nd, 2011-disregard first sentence, it's not relevent but I wanted to show that Spellman was speaking. IMO Mr. Brando is the person Mr. Thompson id'd from the photo. Do air force personnel wear all white? Also note Mr. Spellman's comment about the LE lingo. IMO he is spot on about that! What are they going to say...Verify he is on their radar and tip him off? I think not!

SPELLMAN: Well, "The National Enquirer" is reporting on some extramarital affairs she had with her husband, who she`s still married to, who`s in the service. This is when they lived elsewhere.

Nancy, I just want to -- I just want to mention something. Mike Thompson`s sighting of this man at 4:00 AM -- I`ve been working on this for the last few days, and I`ve met this man, who we`re not naming. But I want to tell you, I`ve just discovered in that last break, we can now report that he has denied to me -- that man that Mike Thompson saw has denied to me that he was there at that time. He says it`s not him. And I know it`s the same person. I showed a photograph to Mike Thompson. So I just want to put it out there that that man denies that it`s him.

GRACE: Is it true, Jim Spellman, that cops have spoken to the guy and have ruled him out?

SPELLMAN: They have spoken to him, yes, and they say -- this is the common language they use, that they have spoken to the person, he answered their questions, and they`ve moved on. They won`t say that they`ve cleared anyone. You know, "cleared" doesn`t really mean anything. They won`t say that. They keep open the avenue to always come back. But they have told us that, yes -- and in fact, they -- about that, that particular individual in relation to that sighting.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1111/02/ng.01.html

Yup... I agree.
Also, is it not interesting that JI went running over to the neighbors asking if she had baby Lisa or soemthing like that? I wonder if JI was aware SB kicked her hubby out that night, but interestingly enough, they were sending love texts to eachother at the magic time of 10:30!

dovebar
11-04-2011, 01:36 AM
This case is just so weird. There are so many weird characters.

twall
11-04-2011, 01:49 AM
Yup... I agree.
Also, is it not interesting that JI went running over to the neighbors asking if she had baby Lisa or soemthing like that? I wonder if JI was aware SB kicked her hubby out that night, but interestingly enough, they were sending love texts to eachother at the magic time of 10:30!

Mr. Spellman stated in the same show (it's in the transcript I linked) SB had previously babysat for Lisa and JI may have thought she was at her home.

Dr.Fessel
11-04-2011, 01:55 AM
PINSKY: Also, had you heard that there was a neighbor husband that - the woman that was getting drunk with Baby Lisa`s mom, which by the way, that whole business of them drinking to the point of blacking out is very disturbing, right? I mean, whether she`s a suspect or not, I mean, these are adults in charge of the care of children who don`t remember what they did the night they were the one supervising these kids.

But be that as it may, there was a neighbor husband who apparently I`ve heard was not allowed to come back home that night and he - I`d heard by one of the investigators had maybe had some - laid some blame at the feet of perhaps Baby Lisa`s parents. Did you hear this?

GRACE: Yes. I`ve heard that, too. But I haven`t been able to confirm it separately.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1110/26/ddhln.01.html

katydid23
11-04-2011, 02:00 AM
PINSKY: Also, had you heard that there was a neighbor husband that - the woman that was getting drunk with Baby Lisa`s mom, which by the way, that whole business of them drinking to the point of blacking out is very disturbing, right? I mean, whether she`s a suspect or not, I mean, these are adults in charge of the care of children who don`t remember what they did the night they were the one supervising these kids.

But be that as it may, there was a neighbor husband who apparently I`ve heard was not allowed to come back home that night and he - I`d heard by one of the investigators had maybe had some - laid some blame at the feet of perhaps Baby Lisa`s parents. Did you hear this?

GRACE: Yes. I`ve heard that, too. But I haven`t been able to confirm it separately.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1110/26/ddhln.01.html

Whenever a couple is going through a rough patch, the husband tends to be angry at his wife's best friend. And vice versa. It makes sense because we tend to commiserate and take our friends side against their spouse. So I can believe he might be angry at the irwin's, thinking they were somehow egging SB on in the separation.

Wendy101
11-04-2011, 02:03 AM
PINSKY: Also, had you heard that there was a neighbor husband that - the woman that was getting drunk with Baby Lisa`s mom, which by the way, that whole business of them drinking to the point of blacking out is very disturbing, right? I mean, whether she`s a suspect or not, I mean, these are adults in charge of the care of children who don`t remember what they did the night they were the one supervising these kids.

But be that as it may, there was a neighbor husband who apparently I`ve heard was not allowed to come back home that night and he - I`d heard by one of the investigators had maybe had some - laid some blame at the feet of perhaps Baby Lisa`s parents. Did you hear this?

GRACE: Yes. I`ve heard that, too. But I haven`t been able to confirm it separately.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1110/26/ddhln.01.html

This completley stumps me...

Jeremy & Deborah blamed for JB not being allowed back home that night? However, JB &SB exchanged their lovey texts that evening - that they love eachother and their daughter???
Nope - something is not right with JB &SB story ..IMO..

Wendy101
11-04-2011, 02:05 AM
Whenever a couple is going through a rough patch, the husband tends to be angry at his wife's best friend. And vice versa. It makes sense because we tend to commiserate and take our friends side against their spouse. So I can believe he might be angry at the irwin's, thinking they were somehow egging SB on in the separation.

Huh... What about the love they have for eachother in the text messages?:waitasec:
JB was only kicked out for the night :waitasec:

AlmostGone
11-04-2011, 02:09 AM
Huh... What about the love they have for eachother in the text messages?:waitasec:
JB was only kicked out for the night :waitasec:

I don't know about you guys but back in the day when I drank I became "lovey dovey" so maybe his wife did too? I have no clue lol

twall
11-04-2011, 02:14 AM
Huh... What about the love they have for eachother in the text messages?:waitasec:
JB was only kicked out for the night :waitasec:

Jim Spellman reported on the Prime News show Wed. night (I don't think PN has transcripts-but it is in the media thread, I watched and posted about it in real time) that JB told him the B's were seeing a marriage counselor and had a session with the counselor Oct. 3 and the counselor recommended they separate so they did. It sounds more serious than a one night separation. You can still love someone while being separated from them. JMO

katydid23
11-04-2011, 02:15 AM
This completley stumps me...

Jeremy & Deborah blamed for JB not being allowed back home that night? However, JB &SB exchanged their lovey texts that evening - that they love eachother and their daughter???
Nope - something is not right with JB &SB story ..IMO..

Their texts at 10:30 are also odd, when you consider that JI went running to SB's house at 3:45 am, looking for his missing baby. And during that time she never calls her husband. She did not call him until the next morning. I think that is weird. I would have called him immediately. Maybe he knew something, saw something, heard something strange in the previous few days.

katydid23
11-04-2011, 02:16 AM
Huh... What about the love they have for eachother in the text messages?:waitasec:
JB was only kicked out for the night :waitasec:

Nah, I think it was more than just for the night. I think it was a trial separation. I could be wrong.

sorrell skye
11-04-2011, 02:25 AM
The fact that this man was investigated, looks like extensively, makes me feel satisfied that LE are looking at all angles. If they hone in on the parents alone, it will be hard to say they haven't done a thorough job.

I agree, Gitana.

LE looked into this man (reportedly giving him a polygraph, which he says he passed), so apparently LE is investigating other avenues besides the parents.

I don't believe LE has tunnel vision in this case. I believe LE is following all leads & investigating all scenarios.

TJGirl
11-04-2011, 03:29 AM
It was mentioned above about JB feeling some friction was caused in his marriage by DB..
Well that kind of opened my eyes a bit. I've been in that exact situation: A very good friend of mine, nonstop spilling the years of problems with her loser husband, and I'm the one saying "Why do you put up with that - make him change or get out". Blah, Blah, Blah.

Sure, they work on things (fights/lovey texts/more fights/gaggingly lovey texts), but he's smart enough to know when the goin' gets tough, I'm her friend, not his, and every time she gets the courage to give him an ultimatum, he sorta thinks her backbone is on loan from me. She vents to me, so I'm the bad guy.

We're probably reading too much into it with what little we know, at this point. But for those who didn't think that sounded plausible - I'm here to say: Aggghh been there. Many times.

21merc7
11-04-2011, 05:50 AM
The fact that this man was investigated, looks like extensively, makes me feel satisfied that LE are looking at all angles. If they hone in on the parents alone, it will be hard to say they haven't done a thorough job.

Hadn't thought this far, but you are right. Makes me feel a lot better. Thank you!

voxrock2000
11-04-2011, 08:16 AM
The information about the marriage troubles and the husband moving out just hours before this fiasco tells me that DB and her neighbor were probably getting drunk and talking about that. It was probably not just light conversation. So they were getting drunk for a reason. Sounds impromptu as i heard DB box o wine was for a family occasion and the other one went out on a booze run (guess she didnt like cheap wine). Basically, neighbor tells DB her husband just left and the decide to sit outside and get blitzed.

Also, the fact that the baby bottle was found on the floor suggests to me maybe the baby dropped it and fell out of the crib trying to get it and maybe hit her head or something. The mattress in the crib was high enough to allow this. Then the drunk(s) find her and panic, make a call and then think better of it and ditch the phones.

Just K
11-04-2011, 11:01 AM
Yup... I agree.
Also, is it not interesting that JI went running over to the neighbors asking if she had baby Lisa or soemthing like that? I wonder if JI was aware SB kicked her hubby out that night, but interestingly enough, they were sending love texts to eachother at the magic time of 10:30!

Yes, but in the article from yesterday, it seems about 21 minutes passed before SB replied to his 10:33 text. She responded at 10:54 PM.
http://www.kctv5.com/story/15953146/neighbor-says
"Brando's husband told CNN that he spent the night of Oct. 3 with a friend. He showed CNN texts between him and his wife on Oct. 3. At 10:33 p.m., the neighbor wrote to Brando that he loved her and their daughter and to kiss her goodnight. Brando responded at 10:54 p.m. that she and their daughter loved him too."

Just K
11-04-2011, 11:11 AM
Something occurs to me: What happened around the time of the 8:30 PM call to MW's phone? What if SB and DB together worked diligently for the next two hours to cover something up and when SB's "hubbie" was texting her, at 10:33 PM, she was pre-occupied/still busy. Then 21 minutes later she is free to shoot him a reply @ 10:54 PM. (She told interviewers that she sat with another neighbor outside from 10:30 until 11:30 PM.)

Just K
11-04-2011, 11:19 AM
The information about the marriage troubles and the husband moving out just hours before this fiasco tells me that DB and her neighbor were probably getting drunk and talking about that. It was probably not just light conversation. So they were getting drunk for a reason. Sounds impromptu as i heard DB box o wine was for a family occasion and the other one went out on a booze run (guess she didnt like cheap wine). Basically, neighbor tells DB her husband just left and the decide to sit outside and get blitzed.

Also, the fact that the baby bottle was found on the floor suggests to me maybe the baby dropped it and fell out of the crib trying to get it and maybe hit her head or something. The mattress in the crib was high enough to allow this. Then the drunk(s) find her and panic, make a call and then think better of it and ditch the phones.

BCBM: Do you have a link to that info on the bottle being on the floor. Is that a rumor or is it quoted somewhere. First I have heard about it and I have wondered since the beginning what articles, that DB said were with Lisa when she put her down, were actually still in the crib after Lisa disappeared.

Wendy101
11-04-2011, 11:22 AM
Something occurs to me: What happened around the time of the 8:30 PM call to MW's phone? What if SB and DB together worked diligently for the next two hours to cover something up and when SB's "hubbie" was texting her, at 10:33 PM, she was pre-occupied/still busy. Then 21 minutes later she is free to shoot him a reply @ 10:54 PM. (She told interviewers that she sat with another neighbor outside from 10:30 until 11:30 PM.)

Yeah, I sure would liek to hear from this neighbor....

w1df10wr
11-04-2011, 11:30 AM
BCBM: Do you have a link to that info on the bottle being on the floor. Is that a rumor or is it quoted somewhere. First I have heard about it and I have wondered since the beginning what articles, that DB said were with Lisa when she put her down, were actually still in the crib after Lisa disappeared.

People Magazine ~10 /31 news stand copy not online~ pg 50 "Her stuffed Barney was still in the crib, and her bottle was on the floor." Other than that, I haven't seen the bottle mentioned anywhere else.

As for SB not answering her husband's text for over 20 minutes, she may not have received the text until that time. Sometimes there is a delay.

Just K
11-04-2011, 12:19 PM
People Magazine ~10 /31 news stand copy not online~ pg 50 "Her stuffed Barney was still in the crib, and her bottle was on the floor." Other than that, I haven't seen the bottle mentioned anywhere else.

As for SB not answering her husband's text for over 20 minutes, she may not have received the text until that time. Sometimes there is a delay.

Thanks, I haven't seen the entire People Interview.

I've had texts delayed for hours, days, weeks, and once one full month. BUT, in this case, I'd be willing to bet that hubbie sent his text at 10:33 and that SB sent hers at 10:54 PM...on that night, I'm willing to bet that there was no mechanical/technological delay. JMO, of course.

Hubbie is being referred to as JB but from the white pages map of the neighborhood

http://neighbors.whitepages.com/search/neighbor_search?street=3620%20N%20Lister%20Ave&where=Kansas%20City,%20MO

there are three residents in SB's house...her, a man and a female bearing the same different last name than SB's.

Who are these other two people who are listed at that address with Samantha and with no other Brando listed?

cluciano63
11-04-2011, 12:46 PM
People mag is kind of like HLN for me...somehow they tend to have bits of "information" not verified anyplace else...JMO

mmmagique
11-05-2011, 11:13 AM
Is it possible DB and the neighbor's husband had something going? Did he think Lisa was his? If so, it puts an entirely different spin on that entire night, imo.

This is merely speculation on my part and no facts were used to come up with this question...

blonde_ambition
11-05-2011, 02:41 PM
After doing some very rudimentary internet research on this guy's job duties and the technology he would have access to, I can't help but think there's more under the surface here... especially given the importance being placed on the cell phones. Then add in the rocky marriage (the reasons for that are probably pretty telling), a possible failed pregnancy, the fact that he and his wife separated that VERY day/night and that he admits to "driving around" for a few hours that night before crashing at a friend's house. Mind boggling.

Sparklin
11-05-2011, 02:51 PM
Me too. And they left a 4 yr old, a 5 yr old and an 8 yr old together to play. Something tells me they had to go in and monitor a few situations. My kids would have been running around, spilling things, knocking things over if left for 4 hours alone like that,especially when showing off for the neighbor girl.

So it makes sense the neighbor would stick her head in and check on a sick baby. I would.

BL had a cold, she was sleeping. I would say listening outside her door to ensure she isn't fussing or awake, but opening the door and disturbing sleep and subjecting the 'boys noise' to her? No one would assume the baby wasn't there obviously so if she went to bed comfy and tired, why risk waking her? I would expect to hear her when she woke.

OT: I think we are only hearing about the LD tests done on those who are willing to spill to the media. And even then, I don't necessarily believe that.

Sparklin
11-05-2011, 02:56 PM
Good question! Maybe Lisa wasn't there...or, if she was there...she was unable to cry out. It's heartbreaking to think this, but it is a big possibility.

Or she was just sleeping soundly and comfortably.
My youngest had three older siblings - when she was 6 months old we went to a cottage for a family reunion. She was napping in a bedroom off the kitchen which opened to the family room. There were about 45 people there, all talking at the same time (or so it seemed) children running around and fighting, yelling etc...she slept right through it. Everyone was amazed. But she was use to it. I could vacuum under her crib and she wouldn't wake (slight exag) lol

Sparklin
11-05-2011, 03:08 PM
It was mentioned above about JB feeling some friction was caused in his marriage by DB..
Well that kind of opened my eyes a bit. I've been in that exact situation: A very good friend of mine, nonstop spilling the years of problems with her loser husband, and I'm the one saying "Why do you put up with that - make him change or get out". Blah, Blah, Blah.

Sure, they work on things (fights/lovey texts/more fights/gaggingly lovey texts), but he's smart enough to know when the goin' gets tough, I'm her friend, not his, and every time she gets the courage to give him an ultimatum, he sorta thinks her backbone is on loan from me. She vents to me, so I'm the bad guy.

We're probably reading too much into it with what little we know, at this point. But for those who didn't think that sounded plausible - I'm here to say: Aggghh been there. Many times.

Been there also ~ and my response was "she has a mind of her own"

In da Middle
11-05-2011, 03:09 PM
IF this guy did it, stealing the phones could be a way a jealous person could look to see if his wife was talking to somebody else by using her friends phone to make the call. I've seen this happen a lot for people to make calls that are not to be known about.

katshep
11-05-2011, 03:17 PM
Yes, but in the article from yesterday, it seems about 21 minutes passed before SB replied to his 10:33 text. She responded at 10:54 PM.
http://www.kctv5.com/story/15953146/neighbor-says
"Brando's husband told CNN that he spent the night of Oct. 3 with a friend. He showed CNN texts between him and his wife on Oct. 3. At 10:33 p.m., the neighbor wrote to Brando that he loved her and their daughter and to kiss her goodnight. Brando responded at 10:54 p.m. that she and their daughter loved him too."

We don't know that they had marital infidelity issues. Any number of things can stress a marriage: money, loss of a child, say a miscarriage, communication issues, substance abuse... the list is long

Abby Normal
11-05-2011, 03:18 PM
IF this guy did it, stealing the phones could be a way a jealous person could look to see if his wife was talking to somebody else by using her friends phone to make the call. I've seen this happen a lot for people to make calls that are not to be known about.

That's what I've been saying. IMO any intruder most likely knew the family... the phones could have been taken in effort to read personal texts and emails. Jealousy or desperation do funny things to someone who is already slightly off their rocker. Look at what Tina Porter's husband, with no history of such craziness according to the reports I read, went to once he became upset over the divorce.

I also think it's possible that the phones are not directly linked to the kidnapping, although it's unlikely. There's a chance someone took the phone to sell, bragged to someone else about how the adults were out front not even paying attention, and someone else went to see what was going on, and what opportunities existed for themselves. Not likely, but not totally absurd either.

blonde_ambition
11-05-2011, 03:19 PM
IF this guy did it, stealing the phones could be a way a jealous person could look to see if his wife was talking to somebody else by using her friends phone to make the call. I've seen this happen a lot for people to make calls that are not to be known about.

Exactly! He may also have access to technology that does all manner of crazy things with cell phones... one that I read about was installing software on them that makes them a monitoring device (much like a baby monitor) - EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT ON. I wonder if there is technology to "fake" a phone call, text or even a ping?

katshep
11-05-2011, 03:29 PM
After doing some very rudimentary internet research on this guy's job duties and the technology he would have access to, I can't help but think there's more under the surface here... especially given the importance being placed on the cell phones. Then add in the rocky marriage (the reasons for that are probably pretty telling), a possible failed pregnancy, the fact that he and his wife separated that VERY day/night and that he admits to "driving around" for a few hours that night before crashing at a friend's house. Mind boggling.

Do you have a source for a failed pregnancy and when it terminated? The reason I ask is that the most likely person to commit an infant abduction is a woman who has lost a child recently. The familiarity and access of the next-door neighbors would make his/her presence in the house unremarkable if discovered
Their house was searched pretty thoroughly, I hear. The DNA of both families is probably in both households. This wouldn't explain MW calls, etc.

katshep
11-05-2011, 03:44 PM
Thanks, I haven't seen the entire People Interview.

I've had texts delayed for hours, days, weeks, and once one full month. BUT, in this case, I'd be willing to bet that hubbie sent his text at 10:33 and that SB sent hers at 10:54 PM...on that night, I'm willing to bet that there was no mechanical/technological delay. JMO, of course.

Hubbie is being referred to as JB but from the white pages map of the neighborhood

http://neighbors.whitepages.com/search/neighbor_search?street=3620%20N%20Lister%20Ave&where=Kansas%20City,%20MO

there are three residents in SB's house...her, a man and a female bearing the same different last name than SB's.

Who are these other two people who are listed at that address with Samantha and with no other Brando listed?

Per assessor's records, these are the owners of the property at 3616 N. Lister that is presently rented to the Brando family.

aks9847
11-05-2011, 04:07 PM
Exactly! He may also have access to technology that does all manner of crazy things with cell phones... one that I read about was installing software on them that makes them a monitoring device (much like a baby monitor) - EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT ON. I wonder if there is technology to "fake" a phone call, text or even a ping?

Respectfully, BBM.

You can do almost anything now with all the apps that are downloadable. However, doesn't mean that police shouldn't be able to verify it. :)

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fake-a-message-free-mms-sms!/id366024390?mt=8

mlc9852
11-05-2011, 04:19 PM
Is it possible DB and the neighbor's husband had something going? Did he think Lisa was his? If so, it puts an entirely different spin on that entire night, imo.

This is merely speculation on my part and no facts were used to come up with this question...


I read the same thing on FB but figured it was just a rumor. Honestly, this story has more twists and turns than I have ever heard. Just wish they would find Baby Lisa alive and well.

madge
11-05-2011, 04:32 PM
So this guy drove around a while after he left SB's home? Why would he do that and why not go straight to the friends house that he crashed at! My hinky meter is going off.

Eileen730
11-05-2011, 05:16 PM
That ^^^ is a really good question and it really bothers me still. The most recent timeline, the NBC one that has it's own thread here, says that the neighbor last saw Lisa at 4;30 in her crib. WTH? That is a small house. And she had dinner inside at 5;30. And she did not see Lisa then? So was the baby left in her room from 4:30 on? That is a long time for an infant to be in her crib, from 4;30 pm to the next morning.

That is very interesting.
If this is true JI could have taken that baby out when he left. Yes?
If no one even checked on that little precious baby she could have been missing since 4 30.

Eileen730
11-05-2011, 05:24 PM
So this guy drove around a while after he left SB's home? Why would he do that and why not go straight to the friends house that he crashed at! My hinky meter is going off.

Well he passed a poly.
The guy and his wife went to counseling that day and the counselor suggested they seperate for a while..The guy gets home gathers some stuff and tries to find a place to stay.
Le has said they have moved on

Who know why they split or if deb was involved but i kind of remember JI saying something about cheating...

buttttt why would the wife sit and drink wine with DB if DB was somehow
involved ???

katydid23
11-05-2011, 05:27 PM
That is very interesting.
If this is true JI could have taken that baby out when he left. Yes?
If no one even checked on that little precious baby she could have been missing since 4 30.

YES. The only other person that has ben publicly reported to have seen Lisa after 4:30 is the 4 yr old neighbor girl. And I am sorry, but it is entirely too easy to fool am 4 yr old into thinking or saying that.

The 4 yr old [ supposedly] said she saw the baby while mom was putting her to sleep at 6;40. But I still do not understand why the neighbor would not have seen that baby after 4:30 if she ate dinner inside at 5:30 and had her daughter inside that house all night until 10:30. IMO, if that poor baby was alive and well, then the neighbor would have heard or seen her. I do not believe you can hide an 11 month old in a tiny home from 4:30 on by putting her in a crib in her tiny room. No baby I know would have sat silently in her room while 3 older kids were playing in the next room. Lisa would have cried or yelled or babbled at some point. imoo

madge
11-05-2011, 05:32 PM
my question is how did DB expect Baby Lisa to sleep from 6:30 until the next morning? Really really strange that she put the baby down at that time of the evening even if she had been ill. IMHO Stranger that she never checked on her all evening (or so she now says). Next Friday is Baby Lisa's birthday, I bet they'll have a statement bby then.

Eileen730
11-05-2011, 05:57 PM
YES. The only other person that has ben publicly reported to have seen Lisa after 4:30 is the 4 yr old neighbor girl. And I am sorry, but it is entirely too easy to fool am 4 yr old into thinking or saying that.

The 4 yr old [ supposedly] said she saw the baby while mom was putting her to sleep at 6;40. But I still do not understand why the neighbor would not have seen that baby after 4:30 if she ate dinner inside at 5:30 and had her daughter inside that house all night until 10:30. IMO, if that poor baby was alive and well, then the neighbor would have heard or seen her. I do not believe you can hide an 11 month old in a tiny home from 4:30 on by putting her in a crib in her tiny room. No baby I know would have sat silently in her room while 3 older kids were playing in the next room. Lisa would have cried or yelled or babbled at some point. imoo

I totally agree with that she would not sleep from 4 30 till the next morning unless she was drugged OD or dead...

In da Middle
11-05-2011, 05:58 PM
That is very interesting.
If this is true JI could have taken that baby out when he left. Yes?
If no one even checked on that little precious baby she could have been missing since 4 30.
If you are going with that and the dog hit, then it would only make sense that the dogs would have hit in a vehicle also. I am not aware of them doing so and I am aware of the dogs searching the vehicles on the very day she went missing.

In da Middle
11-05-2011, 06:02 PM
YES. The only other person that has ben publicly reported to have seen Lisa after 4:30 is the 4 yr old neighbor girl. And I am sorry, but it is entirely too easy to fool am 4 yr old into thinking or saying that.

The 4 yr old [ supposedly] said she saw the baby while mom was putting her to sleep at 6;40. But I still do not understand why the neighbor would not have seen that baby after 4:30 if she ate dinner inside at 5:30 and had her daughter inside that house all night until 10:30. IMO, if that poor baby was alive and well, then the neighbor would have heard or seen her. I do not believe you can hide an 11 month old in a tiny home from 4:30 on by putting her in a crib in her tiny room. No baby I know would have sat silently in her room while 3 older kids were playing in the next room. Lisa would have cried or yelled or babbled at some point. imooI don't see anywhere that the drinking buddy did not see the baby after this time. She has not stated ANYthing to my knowledge. I believe the report of her saying 4:30 is another 'sources said' kind of thing. Not SB stating that.

Eileen730
11-05-2011, 06:07 PM
YES. The only other person that has ben publicly reported to have seen Lisa after 4:30 is the 4 yr old neighbor girl. And I am sorry, but it is entirely too easy to fool am 4 yr old into thinking or saying that.

The 4 yr old [ supposedly] said she saw the baby while mom was putting her to sleep at 6;40. But I still do not understand why the neighbor would not have seen that baby after 4:30 if she ate dinner inside at 5:30 and had her daughter inside that house all night until 10:30. IMO, if that poor baby was alive and well, then the neighbor would have heard or seen her. I do not believe you can hide an 11 month old in a tiny home from 4:30 on by putting her in a crib in her tiny room. No baby I know would have sat silently in her room while 3 older kids were playing in the next room. Lisa would have cried or yelled or babbled at some point. imoo

They need to give JI a poly. JMO

Eileen730
11-05-2011, 06:13 PM
If you are going with that and the dog hit, then it would only make sense that the dogs would have hit in a vehicle also. I am not aware of them doing so and I am aware of the dogs searching the vehicles on the very day she went missing.

What if she had died and decomp had not started yet he put the baby in a bag
and takes her somewhere but brings the bag back home and sets it on the bedroom floor? the dog hit on the bedroom floor.

Just some of my thoughts

Sparklin
11-05-2011, 06:25 PM
Something occurs to me: What happened around the time of the 8:30 PM call to MW's phone? What if SB and DB together worked diligently for the next two hours to cover something up and when SB's "hubbie" was texting her, at 10:33 PM, she was pre-occupied/still busy. Then 21 minutes later she is free to shoot him a reply @ 10:54 PM. (She told interviewers that she sat with another neighbor outside from 10:30 until 11:30 PM.)

I know anything is possible. But I have a hard enough time imagining ONE mommy being able to handle doing that, I def. CAN'T imagine two of them. And to carry on day by day?

I realize that this situation is sounding more and more like an episode of Desperate Housewives (jk) but I don't know ANY friend that would help someone do that and be ok with it. I just can't

In da Middle
11-05-2011, 06:31 PM
What if she had died and decomp had not started yet he put the baby in a bag
and takes her somewhere but brings the bag back home and sets it on the bedroom floor? the dog hit on the bedroom floor.

Just some of my thoughts
Take her somewhere in what? The vehicles have been searched.

Sparklin
11-05-2011, 06:31 PM
YES. The only other person that has ben publicly reported to have seen Lisa after 4:30 is the 4 yr old neighbor girl. And I am sorry, but it is entirely too easy to fool am 4 yr old into thinking or saying that.

The 4 yr old [ supposedly] said she saw the baby while mom was putting her to sleep at 6;40. But I still do not understand why the neighbor would not have seen that baby after 4:30 if she ate dinner inside at 5:30 and had her daughter inside that house all night until 10:30. IMO, if that poor baby was alive and well, then the neighbor would have heard or seen her. I do not believe you can hide an 11 month old in a tiny home from 4:30 on by putting her in a crib in her tiny room. No baby I know would have sat silently in her room while 3 older kids were playing in the next room. Lisa would have cried or yelled or babbled at some point. imoo

This has had me concerned also. That timeline worried me, for Lisa. However, after seeing numerous time lines, with some things being omitted, added and skewed, I am not putting much stock into any timeline.

Sparklin
11-05-2011, 06:39 PM
my question is how did DB expect Baby Lisa to sleep from 6:30 until the next morning? Really really strange that she put the baby down at that time of the evening even if she had been ill. IMHO Stranger that she never checked on her all evening (or so she now says). Next Friday is Baby Lisa's birthday, I bet they'll have a statement bby then.

It's possible Deb didn't expect Lisa to sleep that long. Perhaps she was totally expecting Lisa to be up at 11 or 12 or even earlier. Maybe Lisa was early to bed, early to rise? Maybe she sleeps from 6:30/7:00 until 4 or 5ish. I know plenty of babies who sleep through the night at that age. If she was put down at 6:40, bathed and fed and comfy, there would be no need to physically check on her. Listening for her, yes. I don't know too many parents that get up every hour to check on their 10 month old, even if they have a cold with a cough. Baby isn't feeling well, let her sleep.
Being aware and alert is another story, but that was not even negligence in my opinion, it was foolishness. Not to mention, she expected Jeremy home earlier... But it also did not cause Lisa to be missing imo.

Abby Normal
11-05-2011, 06:46 PM
Well he passed a poly.
The guy and his wife went to counseling that day and the counselor suggested they seperate for a while..The guy gets home gathers some stuff and tries to find a place to stay.
Le has said they have moved on

Who know why they split or if deb was involved but i kind of remember JI saying something about cheating...

buttttt why would the wife sit and drink wine with DB if DB was somehow
involved ???

He says he passed one anyway, and if you know what you are doing you can learn to pass them. Since his employment is in security (with the military and then with Sprint) I wouldn't put it past being in his area of interest.

That said, I haven't seen anything to make me think he's a bad dude, or in any way capable of this. Just stating that we only have HIS WORD that he passed, just as we only have DB's word that she failed hers.

Abby Normal
11-05-2011, 06:49 PM
I totally agree with that she would not sleep from 4 30 till the next morning unless she was drugged OD or dead...

Well, crud. I have three kids who were constantly drugged or dead. :innocent:

I would venture a guess that MOST of us didn't set an alarm to wake our kids mid-night. When the kid cries, we wake up and tend to needs. So a completely innocent DB (just for the sake of argument) would have no reason to wake up and tend to her needs unless she cried and woke her to do so. So even if 4:30 was odd for Lisa, it's entirely possible that nothing would have alerted her to wake up and tend to her until JI woke her up.

JMO.

Abby Normal
11-05-2011, 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by katydid23
YES. The only other person that has ben publicly reported to have seen Lisa after 4:30 is the 4 yr old neighbor girl. And I am sorry, but it is entirely too easy to fool am 4 yr old into thinking or saying that.

The 4 yr old [ supposedly] said she saw the baby while mom was putting her to sleep at 6;40. But I still do not understand why the neighbor would not have seen that baby after 4:30 if she ate dinner inside at 5:30 and had her daughter inside that house all night until 10:30. IMO, if that poor baby was alive and well, then the neighbor would have heard or seen her. I do not believe you can hide an 11 month old in a tiny home from 4:30 on by putting her in a crib in her tiny room. No baby I know would have sat silently in her room while 3 older kids were playing in the next room. Lisa would have cried or yelled or babbled at some point. imoo
BBM
This bothers me too! I keep wondering if that is just the only tid-bit that the reporter got, or reported. Or perhaps the "source" had talked to the girl, but not asked the mom (would only make sense if the source was JB). or if the source was SB, she may have thought that an "innocent child's" claim was more believable than hers and just mentioned that. Or perhaps the "source" was not well informed and has not clue. Wouldn't be the first source to speak out of place.

Ultimately we don't know that SB did NOT see her, we only know that it has been (vaguely) confirmed that the daughter DID. SO I guess we just have to wait for clarification on that.

ETA- what IDMiddle said, lol

I don't see anywhere that the drinking buddy did not see the baby after this time. She has not stated ANYthing to my knowledge. I believe the report of her saying 4:30 is another 'sources said' kind of thing. Not SB stating that.

RANCH
11-05-2011, 07:06 PM
It's possible Deb didn't expect Lisa to sleep that long. Perhaps she was totally expecting Lisa to be up at 11 or 12 or even earlier. Maybe Lisa was early to bed, early to rise? Maybe she sleeps from 6:30/7:00 until 4 or 5ish. I know plenty of babies who sleep through the night at that age. If she was put down at 6:40, bathed and fed and comfy, there would be no need to physically check on her. Listening for her, yes. I don't know too many parents that get up every hour to check on their 10 month old, even if they have a cold with a cough. Baby isn't feeling well, let her sleep.
Being aware and alert is another story, but that was not even negligence in my opinion, it was foolishness. Not to mention, she expected Jeremy home earlier... But it also did not cause Lisa to be missing imo.
This is were I'm at a disadvantage. I've never had any kids so I have zero first hand experience with the sleeping habits of young children. Thanks for letting me know that its at least possible for a baby to sleep for an extended period of time.

Kimmer
11-05-2011, 11:16 PM
Since there have been so many statng that a baby that age would not slee for that long of time with that said my 1 and only grandaugher was born in Feb of this year and below is her normal sleeping routine she goes to bed at 8pm and she sleeps throughout the night and does not wake up until around 8:30 am she gets a morning bottle and diaper changed and is played with she then takes
her morning nap at.10:00am and wakes up between 12-12:30 she than gets up and has her lunch and diaper changed and playes till around 2:30-3:00 she then has her afternoon nap and gets up from that nap between 4-4:30 and she then has her afternoon bottle and will on some days fall back to sleep in her pack and play for about 45 minutes and she is not drugged or on and meds but she is just like my daughter because by daugter is a power sleeper and if she is able to sleep without interruption she sleep for 12-14 hours...so if BL is anything like my grandaugter then I can see her being able to sleep for long amounts of time.

ElliemayJ
11-05-2011, 11:30 PM
It's possible Deb didn't expect Lisa to sleep that long. Perhaps she was totally expecting Lisa to be up at 11 or 12 or even earlier. Maybe Lisa was early to bed, early to rise? Maybe she sleeps from 6:30/7:00 until 4 or 5ish. I know plenty of babies who sleep through the night at that age. If she was put down at 6:40, bathed and fed and comfy, there would be no need to physically check on her. Listening for her, yes. I don't know too many parents that get up every hour to check on their 10 month old, even if they have a cold with a cough. Baby isn't feeling well, let her sleep.
Being aware and alert is another story, but that was not even negligence in my opinion, it was foolishness. Not to mention, she expected Jeremy home earlier... But it also did not cause Lisa to be missing imo.

I agree...my son goes to bed by 7pm many nights. He chose that time not me. I was trying to get him to sleep by 8pm but he was always so sleepy and sometimes would crash early so I just moved it up an hour. If he misses his second nap he will crash earlier as long as he has been fed and gets his bottle. If he is really sleepy I will skip the bath to get him to sleep before he gets over tired. He hasn't been sick but once at about 10 weeks old but if he was sick I could see him needing to go to sleep earlier. He also wakes up between 12-2 to nurse but I can't depend on it because he has slept 12 hours before. So 6:40 does not seem like an early bedtime to me. If I am really tired I no longer wake up waiting for him to wake up like I use to when he was younger. My son is now 11 months like Lisa. So I can understand that part of the story.

On a side note, I wonder what the neighbor did with her 4 year old while she talked with another neighbor until 11:30 when her husband was not home. That I can't understand but it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Kimmer
11-05-2011, 11:47 PM
Take her somewhere in what? The vehicles have been searched.

Do you know if DB brothers vehicle was searched? TIA

In da Middle
11-06-2011, 01:12 AM
Do you know if DB brothers vehicle was searched? TIA
All I can verify is that his vehicle was at the house during one of the dog searches parked very near theirs. We can read into that as we like, I guess.

Eileen730
11-06-2011, 11:01 AM
Take her somewhere in what? The vehicles have been searched.

On foot.
seems we see alot ofwalkers around there.
No reason that baby was in a car.

Eileen730
11-06-2011, 11:14 AM
Well, crud. I have three kids who were constantly drugged or dead. :innocent:

I would venture a guess that MOST of us didn't set an alarm to wake our kids mid-night. When the kid cries, we wake up and tend to needs. So a completely innocent DB (just for the sake of argument) would have no reason to wake up and tend to her needs unless she cried and woke her to do so. So even if 4:30 was odd for Lisa, it's entirely possible that nothing would have alerted her to wake up and tend to her until JI woke her up.

JMO.

Well Crud.
I would venture to guess you went in and checked on said drugged kids.
Deb couldnt wake up cause she was blacked out (her words not mine).

If you are up and out sitting on the stoop drinking
and smoking cigs with your neighbor u still go and check on your kids dont ya?
She does not get the mother of the year award from me sorry.
JMO

TheTruthWillOut
11-06-2011, 11:26 AM
If you are going with that and the dog hit, then it would only make sense that the dogs would have hit in a vehicle also. I am not aware of them doing so and I am aware of the dogs searching the vehicles on the very day she went missing.

Were these FBI cadaver dogs? Or normal scent dogs?

Mountain_Kat
11-06-2011, 11:31 AM
I'm alittle confused as to why some people think it makes perfect sense that a neighbor having marital difficulties kidnaps his neighbors baby for revenge (??), but it makes no sense what so ever that a mother who admits to beng drunk might have taken her daughter into bed with her, and accidentally smothered her.

balaney
11-06-2011, 11:34 AM
WoW! His text to his wife at 10:30.. I love you and our baby daughter...takes on a whole new meaning.... heck.. now I have to go search for the exact wording of that text..

what text? is there a link?

skyy
11-06-2011, 11:35 AM
WoW! His text to his wife at 10:30.. I love you and our baby daughter...takes on a whole new meaning.... heck.. now I have to go search for the exact wording of that text..

I don't find that odd. My daughter is 4 1/2 and she is our baby. If she is the youngest or only child it wouldn't be alarming that he would consider her his baby.

In da Middle
11-06-2011, 01:00 PM
Were these FBI cadaver dogs? Or normal scent dogs?Nothing has been verified as to which dogs where which on any given search. There were multiple times where dogs were there. It has not been released as to which dogs were there at any given time.

Abby Normal
11-06-2011, 01:04 PM
Well Crud.
I would venture to guess you went in and checked on said drugged kids.
Deb couldnt wake up cause she was blacked out (her words not mine).

If you are up and out sitting on the stoop drinking
and smoking cigs with your neighbor u still go and check on your kids dont ya?
She does not get the mother of the year award from me sorry.
JMO

1) She didn't say she was blacked out, she said "it's possible".

2) My kids slept in my room, so yes we were close and checking on them.

3) What I was responding to was that Lisa couldn't have slept that long unless she was drugged or dead. I was simply saying that my kids slept 12 hours a night by Lisa's age. So non-drugged, non-dead kids CAN sleep as long as it was suggested. If you're going to quote me and reply to me, I'd love if you were able to keep it in context. I never said she should get the mother of the year award. I was responding to a specific assumption that I know to be false.

I was not assessing her parenting habits of checking on, or not checking on her kids. Obviously since I kept my kids as close as I did for as long as I did, I could not relate to that part at all.

TheTruthWillOut
11-06-2011, 01:05 PM
Nothing has been verified as to which dogs where which on any given search. There were multiple times where dogs were there. It has not been released as to which dogs were there at any given time.

Thanks.

Wendy101
11-06-2011, 01:05 PM
what text? is there a link?


Brando's husband told CNN that he spent the night of Oct. 3 with a friend. He showed CNN texts between him and his wife on Oct. 3. At 10:33 p.m., the neighbor wrote to Brando that he loved her and their daughter and to kiss her goodnight. Brando responded at 10:54 p.m. that she and their daughter loved him too.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15953146/neighbor-says?clienttype=printable

Abby Normal
11-06-2011, 01:11 PM
I'm alittle confused as to why some people think it makes perfect sense that a neighbor having marital difficulties kidnaps his neighbors baby for revenge (??), but it makes no sense what so ever that a mother who admits to beng drunk might have taken her daughter into bed with her, and accidentally smothered her.

I think it's totally rational that may have been what happened. I think you may need to also throw in that she then went on to throw away her baby and cover her tracks. That's what makes it hard to fathom.

But agreed, totally possible.

I think some of us who seem to be "anti-guilt" aren't really anti-guilt, the guilty theories are just well represented so we discuss other possible theories as a way to keep an open mind until we have evidence and information.

Obviously LE thought it was a good enough theory to investigate, so I don't think it's irrational either, kwim?

Cortne
11-06-2011, 01:16 PM
Oh but he says he passed a poly, so hes not involved

Deb says she doesnt pass a poly. Totally involved

He says he passes poly but is id'd carrying a baby in the middle of the night.

But hes still not involved and Deb is. Alllrighty then.



Oy.

Mountain_Kat
11-06-2011, 01:23 PM
I think it's totally rational that may have been what happened. I think you may need to also throw in that she then went on to throw away her baby and cover her tracks. That's what makes it hard to fathom.

But agreed, totally possible.

I think some of us who seem to be "anti-guilt" aren't really anti-guilt, the guilty theories are just well represented so we discuss other possible theories as a way to keep an open mind until we have evidence and information.

Obviously LE thought it was a good enough theory to investigate, so I don't think it's irrational either, kwim?

Well, I would hope LE would check out any possibility.

But I just find it a stretch of the imagination to think a man having marital problems with his wife somehow decides to kidnap his neighbors baby in a bizarre revenge plot. I'm not criticizing anyone who does hold this theory...just saying, it doesn't seem particularly logical to me.

Mountain_Kat
11-06-2011, 01:28 PM
Oh but he says he passed a poly, so hes not involved

Deb says she doesnt pass a poly. Totally involved

He says he passes poly but is id'd carrying a baby in the middle of the night.

But hes still not involved and Deb is. Alllrighty then.



Oy.

Reporter Jim Spellman said a spokesman for the Kansas City Police Department confirmed that the neighbor has been cleared of any involvement in the disappearance of baby Lisa. The spokesperson said the department "has moved on from him," according to CNN.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15953146/neighbor-says

Wendy101
11-06-2011, 01:32 PM
Reporter Jim Spellman said a spokesman for the Kansas City Police Department confirmed that the neighbor has been cleared of any involvement in the disappearance of baby Lisa. The spokesperson said the department "has moved on from him," according to CNN.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/15953146/neighbor-says

Didn't they say the same thing about Jersey?

jjenny
11-06-2011, 01:34 PM
Didn't they say the same thing about Jersey?

They sure did.

TorisMom003
11-06-2011, 01:43 PM
For some reason I have a feeling that they had "moved on away from him" before they even knew if there was a solid alibi for this individual simply because their focus was on someone else that was not this person.

MOO

Abby Normal
11-06-2011, 02:13 PM
Well, I would hope LE would check out any possibility.

But I just find it a stretch of the imagination to think a man having marital problems with his wife somehow decides to kidnap his neighbors baby in a bizarre revenge plot. I'm not criticizing anyone who does hold this theory...just saying, it doesn't seem particularly logical to me.

yes, given the information we have at this time it would be a stretch to claim that he had adequate motive for abducting a child.

I think given the information we have at this time, it would be a stretch to decide unhindered that DB is a murderer too. But granted, it's at least statistically more likely.

I'm just waiting, honestly. Considering all possibilities. I consider that part of being objective. I'm glad LE is considering everything as well, no matter what direction it leads.

askfornina
11-06-2011, 02:20 PM
yes, given the information we have at this time it would be a stretch to claim that he had adequate motive for abducting a child.

I think given the information we have at this time, it would be a stretch to decide unhindered that DB is a murderer too. But granted, it's at least statistically more likely.

I'm just waiting, honestly. Considering all possibilities. I consider that part of being objective. I'm glad LE is considering everything as well, no matter what direction it leads.

i totally agree Abby Normal. you always say what i'm feeling in better words than i could come up with. just want to say you are one of my favorite posters in the section of the forum. i really respect this point of view, but i also respect the point of view of others that happen to differ from mine. as i'm sure you'd agree. :fence: at the end of the day we are all here for Lisa.

Mountain_Kat
11-06-2011, 03:55 PM
yes, given the information we have at this time it would be a stretch to claim that he had adequate motive for abducting a child.

I think given the information we have at this time, it would be a stretch to decide unhindered that DB is a murderer too. But granted, it's at least statistically more likely.

I'm just waiting, honestly. Considering all possibilities. I consider that part of being objective. I'm glad LE is considering everything as well, no matter what direction it leads.

BBM

I've never even considered the possibility that DB might be a murderer. I've never seen one shred of evidence that would point me in that direction. I do, however, believe that it's highly probable that she's responsible for whatever happened to Lisa.

Having said that, I value any and all opinions, so long as they are intelligent and respectful. :)

Eileen730
11-06-2011, 03:57 PM
Oh but he says he passed a poly, so hes not involved

Deb says she doesnt pass a poly. Totally involved

He says he passes poly but is id'd carrying a baby in the middle of the night.

But hes still not involved and Deb is. Alllrighty then.



Oy.

This man was identified carrying the baby?

Abby Normal
11-06-2011, 04:20 PM
BBM

I've never even considered the possibility that DB might be a murderer. I've never seen one shred of evidence that would point me in that direction. I do, however, believe that it's highly probable that she's responsible for whatever happened to Lisa.

Having said that, I value any and all opinions, so long as they are intelligent and respectful. :)

OH, I didn't mean YOU HAD. I just meant that in regards to the many theories on this board that do demand her guilt. Like it's not that much more "off the wall" than some of the DB did it theories. That's all :)

Sorry if it sounded like I meant YOU had made that assertion. I've enjoyed your posts and you've stood out to me as fair and objective :)

Mountain_Kat
11-06-2011, 04:26 PM
OH, I didn't mean YOU HAD. I just meant that in regards to that many theories on this board that do demand her guilt. Like it's not that much more "off the wall" than some of the DB did it theories. That's all :)

Sorry it sounded like I meant YOU had made that assertion. I've enjoyed your posts and you've stood out to me as fair and objective :)

No worries, Abby, I knew you didn't mean me. I just thought I'd take the opportunity to share my feelings on that particular subject.

And thank you for the sweet compliment. Right backatcha. :)

Mountain_Kat
11-06-2011, 04:32 PM
Didn't they say the same thing about Jersey?

They did. And I've never seen anything since that would indicate to me that LE now feels otherwise.

hambirg
11-06-2011, 05:02 PM
Take her somewhere in what? The vehicles have been searched.

Do you know if the neighbors', SB and JB's, vehicles were searched? I'm kind of assuming they would have been, but haven't seen that yet.

I'll tell you, after seeing JB I might almost be back on the fence. :eek:


Why is it that a lot of these men have the same MO??? :banghead:

ETA-while I think the idea of the neighbor doing this out of revenge is kind of far out there, people have been known to go off the deep end when they believe they are facing a divorce. I just don't know. It's plausible to me though. Add to that the MT sighting and it's just enough to make me wonder.

Mountain_Kat
11-06-2011, 05:08 PM
Do you know if the neighbors', SB and JB's, vehicles were searched? I'm kind of assuming they would have been, but haven't seen that yet.

I'll tell you, after seeing JB I might almost be back on the fence. :eek:


Why is it that a lot of these men have the same MO??? :banghead:

Why is that, Hambirg? I've seen him...and I don't find anything about his appearance that would make me think anything one way or the other. :waitasec:

ETA: MT described a man with medium length salt and pepper hair. Are there pictures I'm not seeing of JB with med length salt and papper hair? What am I missing here?

hambirg
11-06-2011, 05:37 PM
Why is that, Hambirg? I've seen him...and I don't find anything about his appearance that would make me think anything one way or the other. :waitasec:

ETA: MT described a man with medium length salt and pepper hair. Are there pictures I'm not seeing of JB with med length salt and papper hair? What am I missing here?

Well, the picture I saw his hair was shaved close to his head, but it did look like it could be salt and pepper. What really threw me off is how much he resembled Jersey. . body type, hair cut, he seemed short and muscular, etc.

I didn't know MT's description was "medium" length hair. Hmmm. . .all things to consider.

Mountain_Kat
11-06-2011, 05:42 PM
Well, the picture I saw his hair was shaved close to his head, but it did look like it could be salt and pepper. What really threw me off is how much he resembled Jersey. . body type, hair cut, he seemed short and muscular, etc.

I didn't know MT's description was "medium" length hair. Hmmm. . .all things to consider.

I have ALOT of problems with MT as a witness. He waited a week to report the sighting, he's given 2 different reasons for why he waited so long, he's given 2 very different descriptions of the man and the baby...I honestly just can't put alot of stock in what the man says.

JMO

hambirg
11-06-2011, 05:46 PM
Yeah, I can't say I disagree with you there. I think I was just really caught off guard by how JB looked. It gave me pause. . .that's all.

belleyes
11-06-2011, 05:48 PM
:blushing:At the risk of sounding like an idiot who is MT?:blushing:

O/T--I notice the difference in opinions on the length of sleep so here is a link http://www.babysleepsite.com/schedules/11-month-old-schedule/

I also think the confusion comes, depending on when you believe baby Lisa went to bed. Alot of posters have posted about their children/grandchildren sleeping a long time but none have said 14hr in one stretch. So if baby Lisa went to bed at 6:40pm it is possible she slept until 6:40am (12hrs) but if she was put to bed at 4:30pm it is unlikely she would sleep uninterrupted until 6:30am (14hrs).
*I may be remembering incorrectly but I believe she napped earlier also, If that is the case and it was my child I would be very concerned*
Warning: speculation::waitasec:head injury???:waitasec:

lauriej
11-06-2011, 06:44 PM
Do you know if the neighbors', SB and JB's, vehicles were searched? I'm kind of assuming they would have been, but haven't seen that yet.

I'll tell you, after seeing JB I might almost be back on the fence. :eek:


Why is it that a lot of these men have the same MO??? :banghead:

ETA-while I think the idea of the neighbor doing this out of revenge is kind of far out there, people have been known to go off the deep end when they believe they are facing a divorce. I just don't know. It's plausible to me though. Add to that the MT sighting and it's just enough to make me wonder.

--i'm assuming that they were, since we do know LE did a search of their house , blocked media access at the time they performed that search.

--according to jim spellman CNN, LE also searched their house in liberty, as well as a couple of others.

@coofersrule (http://twitter.com/#!/coofersrule)Ann Asenbauer
@jimspellmancnn (http://twitter.com/#!/jimspellmancnn) first time tweetering- anyone check sb and jb house in Liberty under construction?
Nov 5

jimspellmancnn (http://twitter.com/#!/jimspellmancnn)jim spellman
@coofersrule (http://twitter.com/#!/coofersrule) per the next door neighbor police checked that house and a couple others associated with him...his moms, a friends etc.
Nov 5

lauriej
11-06-2011, 06:45 PM
:blushing:At the risk of sounding like an idiot who is MT?:blushing:

:waitasec:

..mikeT--------motorcycle dude who had the 'man carrying a baby' sighting at 4 in the a.m.

highflyer
11-06-2011, 06:45 PM
Does SB still work for Jani King? Would have access to a lot of stuff.

hambirg
11-06-2011, 07:33 PM
--i'm assuming that they were, since we do know LE did a search of their house , blocked media access at the time they performed that search.

--according to jim spellman CNN, LE also searched their house in liberty, as well as a couple of others.

@coofersrule (http://twitter.com/#!/coofersrule)Ann Asenbauer
@jimspellmancnn (http://twitter.com/#!/jimspellmancnn) first time tweetering- anyone check sb and jb house in Liberty under construction?
Nov 5

jimspellmancnn (http://twitter.com/#!/jimspellmancnn)jim spellman
@coofersrule (http://twitter.com/#!/coofersrule) per the next door neighbor police checked that house and a couple others associated with him...his moms, a friends etc.
Nov 5

Thank you.

It sounds like LE was pretty thorough, they even searched JB's mom's house. I would imagine they did search the cars as well.

Abby Normal
11-06-2011, 07:41 PM
--i'm assuming that they were, since we do know LE did a search of their house , blocked media access at the time they performed that search.

--according to jim spellman CNN, LE also searched their house in liberty, as well as a couple of others.

@coofersrule (http://twitter.com/#!/coofersrule)Ann Asenbauer
@jimspellmancnn (http://twitter.com/#!/jimspellmancnn) first time tweetering- anyone check sb and jb house in Liberty under construction?
Nov 5

jimspellmancnn (http://twitter.com/#!/jimspellmancnn)jim spellman
@coofersrule (http://twitter.com/#!/coofersrule) per the next door neighbor police checked that house and a couple others associated with him...his moms, a friends etc.
Nov 5
WOW- not making insinuation, but they must have looked at him pretty closely if they did actually go to that extent.

annalia
11-06-2011, 07:43 PM
One thing that this shows to me is that LE has been working hard and following leads and have not just been too focused on DB.

madge
11-06-2011, 07:46 PM
there is a house under construction somewHere? Oh my

Whisperer
11-06-2011, 07:50 PM
LE = close to the vest
Parents lawyered up.
One parents states they failed LDT.
Cadaver dog hits in home.

Yep, we are all on the same old path again....and it's getting real old.

Angelonline
11-06-2011, 07:56 PM
I for one, feel that LE in this case have been doing a very good job. They searched the home repeatedly, the searched neighbors homes, they found and questioned the homeless/handyman, they questioned the person who got a phone call from one of the families phone, they searched the woods and surrounding area several times, they followed up on the dumpster fire, they searched the local landfill and those are only the searches we know of. I do not feel they have put all their eggs in one basket so to speak. I wish that LE in other cases were as thorough as these have been.

Whisperer
11-06-2011, 07:56 PM
1) She didn't say she was blacked out, she said "it's possible".

2) My kids slept in my room, so yes we were close and checking on them.

3) What I was responding to was that Lisa couldn't have slept that long unless she was drugged or dead. I was simply saying that my kids slept 12 hours a night by Lisa's age. So non-drugged, non-dead kids CAN sleep as long as it was suggested. If you're going to quote me and reply to me, I'd love if you were able to keep it in context. I never said she should get the mother of the year award. I was responding to a specific assumption that I know to be false.

I was not assessing her parenting habits of checking on, or not checking on her kids. Obviously since I kept my kids as close as I did for as long as I did, I could not relate to that part at all.

As soon as she said "It's possible" that she blacked out, she lost me. Any drinking person knows when they have a black out. She is not being honest, she is playing games.

Whisperer
11-06-2011, 07:59 PM
As far as who passed poly and who didn't, we will never know because LE doesn't say....w/o permission.

belleyes
11-06-2011, 08:29 PM
..mikeT--------motorcycle dude who had the 'man carrying a baby' sighting at 4 in the a.m.

:floorlaugh:I dont think I ever knew his name just motorcycle guy or dude who saw baby:floorlaugh: THANK YOU

annalia
11-06-2011, 08:36 PM
I for one, feel that LE in this case have been doing a very good job. They searched the home repeatedly, the searched neighbors homes, they found and questioned the homeless/handyman, they questioned the person who got a phone call from one of the families phone, they searched the woods and surrounding area several times, they followed up on the dumpster fire, they searched the local landfill and those are only the searches we know of. I do not feel they have put all their eggs in one basket so to speak. I wish that LE in other cases were as thorough as these have been.

It sure looks that way to me too and has from the beginning. That's why I don't get claims that all LE cares about and is doing is berating DB into making a confession.

Abby Normal
11-06-2011, 08:37 PM
As soon as she said "It's possible" that she blacked out, she lost me. Any drinking person knows when they have a black out. She is not being honest, she is playing games.

Ahh... we must have a different perception of what blacking out means. That explains a lot. IME a person who blacks out continues to function, but has no memory or awareness at things they did and said. Not just vague/drunk lack of awareness- but like a missing hunk of the night. In this case you usually don't know until you're discussing it with people and begin to piece together that you're missing a substantial chunk.

It makes sense that we would have different understandings of that statement if we have different understandings of blacking out :)

madge
11-06-2011, 08:40 PM
So exactly what does blacking out mean in a drunken stupor? I ass..umed that it meant you simply passed out cold to the world and woke up the next day or within so many hours.

Abby Normal
11-06-2011, 08:46 PM
It's a good question. To me passing out is passing out, falling asleep and sleeping hard.

AlmostGone
11-06-2011, 08:50 PM
It's a good question. To me passing out is passing out, falling asleep and sleeping hard.

It is a good question.. I Wonder if she got sick too? I'm just thinking blackout drunk you might get dizzy and if you do pass out you can't be woken up? IMO but I could be wrong...

Debthree
11-06-2011, 08:53 PM
So exactly what does blacking out mean in a drunken stupor? I ass..umed that it meant you simply passed out cold to the world and woke up the next day or within so many hours.

No, to me blacking out is a retrospective thing. If I tell you I was drunk last night and I blacked out at some point it means I was drunk and cannot remember large portions of the evening i.e. my memory has blacked out certain parts of the evening.

Mountain_Kat
11-06-2011, 08:56 PM
To me, passed out mean unconscious. Blacked out means not remembering what you said or did.

Debthree
11-06-2011, 08:56 PM
The neighbor SB and her husband JB are the most interesting parts of this investigation at this point imo. There are many co-incidences in this whole case but the fact that Lisa disappeared on the night that they separated and SB spent hours with DB just screams something to me. I don't know exactly what yet but there's something big there I think.

madge
11-06-2011, 08:58 PM
Wikipedia on blackouts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_(alcohol-related_amnesia)

Seems there is even a brown out! I'll admit I'm totally confused and wonder if DB knew the difference between a blackout and a simple pass out dead drunk!

madge
11-06-2011, 09:02 PM
I will admit that my hinky meter is up on SB's husband! I found it extremely odd that LE decided upon being asked specifically if he had been "cleared", decided to start a policy of not commenting on whether "anyone" was cleared.

Abby Normal
11-06-2011, 09:13 PM
To me, passed out mean unconscious. Blacked out means not remembering what you said or did.

:doh:

I'm so glad i took 15 sentences to poorly explain what you managed in 2.

Angelonline
11-06-2011, 09:20 PM
It sure looks that way to me too and has from the beginning. That's why I don't get claims that all LE cares about and is doing is berating DB into making a confession.

Agreed. This is exactly one of the major reasons (and there are many reasons) I suspect DB. This very thorough LE, who seem to have been the #1 advocate for baby Lisa in all of this, also seem to be very suspicious of little Lisa's mama.

Mountain_Kat
11-06-2011, 09:21 PM
:doh:

I'm so glad i took 15 sentences to poorly explain what you managed in 2.

And people say you can't learn anything useful from twitter. Ha! ;)

Dewey2Me1MoThyme
11-06-2011, 09:23 PM
Wikipedia on blackouts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackout_(alcohol-related_amnesia)

Seems there is even a brown out! I'll admit I'm totally confused and wonder if DB knew the difference between a blackout and a simple pass out dead drunk!
Using this as a jumping off point, I think what we need to know is what is DB's description of blacking out. Many many moons ago when I was young and foolish, I drank a fair amount and to me blacking out was when I hit the sheets and didn't remember hardly laying my head down. Since she is the one who said she could have blacked out, then we need to know her interpretation of the term IMHO of course. Her interpretation is the one that's relavent to this case.

Mountain_Kat
11-07-2011, 09:17 AM
Not that I consider MT a reliable witness, but here is his description of the man he saw with a baby:


During their short encounter he could see the baby was wearing a white t-shirt and diaper. He said the man was wearing white pants and a t-shirt and appeared to have medium length hair that was dark on top and graying on the sides. He described the man as 5’7” tall weighing about 140 to 150 pounds, in his 30s or 40s.

http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/baby-lisa-witness-positively-identifies-man-with-salt-and-pepper-hair

Does this sound like JB to anyone?

curvecuti
11-07-2011, 09:49 AM
Not that I consider MT a reliable witness, but here is his description of the man he saw with a baby:


During their short encounter he could see the baby was wearing a white t-shirt and diaper. He said the man was wearing white pants and a t-shirt and appeared to have medium length hair that was dark on top and graying on the sides. He described the man as 5’7” tall weighing about 140 to 150 pounds, in his 30s or 40s.

http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/baby-lisa-witness-positively-identifies-man-with-salt-and-pepper-hair

Does this sound like JB to anyone?
Is there a picture of JB somewhere?

deoneta
11-07-2011, 01:19 PM
Using this as a jumping off point, I think what we need to know is what is DB's description of blacking out. Many many moons ago when I was young and foolish, I drank a fair amount and to me blacking out was when I hit the sheets and didn't remember hardly laying my head down. Since she is the one who said she could have blacked out, then we need to know her interpretation of the term IMHO of course. Her interpretation is the one that's relavent to this case.

It looks lilke DB was "blackout drunk", according to her own interpretation. She says she can't remember if she checked on her baby after 6:40, altho she does remember cutting off all the lights and telling the boys they could sleep with her. Or else being "black out drunk" could be a handy explanation for not remembering anything to fill in those gaps in the timeline that keep coming up. All MOO.

gluestk
11-07-2011, 05:03 PM
It looks lilke DB was "blackout drunk", according to her own interpretation. She says she can't remember if she checked on her baby after 6:40, altho she does remember cutting off all the lights and telling the boys they could sleep with her. Or else being "black out drunk" could be a handy explanation for not remembering anything to fill in those gaps in the timeline that keep coming up. All MOO.

I'm happy you view the drinking blackout drunk thing the way I do. DB's interpretation, why should we doubt it????
bbm

voxrock2000
11-07-2011, 09:03 PM
Regardless of the results I think it is classic police tactic to tell DB she failed the poly and SB that he passed to shake things up. All LE has to do is raise doubt among the players and wait for a mistake or some cocky behavior. No one is off the table and LE has to keep pushing them.

Abby Normal
11-07-2011, 09:23 PM
It looks lilke DB was "blackout drunk", according to her own interpretation. She says she can't remember if she checked on her baby after 6:40, altho she does remember cutting off all the lights and telling the boys they could sleep with her. Or else being "black out drunk" could be a handy explanation for not remembering anything to fill in those gaps in the timeline that keep coming up. All MOO.

Remembering some things, and not others is not a black out. It's normal drunken brain fog IMO. Black out means that entire chunks are essentially blacked out from your awareness.

JMO.

deoneta
11-07-2011, 10:19 PM
Remembering some things, and not others is not a black out. It's normal drunken brain fog IMO. Black out means that entire chunks are essentially blacked out from your awareness.

JMO.

Black out, brown out, remembering some things and not others, " ... when you drink, you don’t remember the things that happened, and stuff like that ...), Of course I can't say which is correct, but memory loss is said to be the result, regardless. No way of knowing, but I definitely think DB was drinking, but I also think the memory lapses might be more a matter of convenience that intoxication. All MOO.

Kimster
11-07-2011, 10:52 PM
FYI and it's in the Etiquette thread in your sticky section of this forum:

If you link and see *******, it is a site not allowed to link or discuss on WS. If you try to circumvent the *****, it's a TOS violation. :nono:

No one is in trouble tonight, just don't do it again. :tyou:

neesaki
11-08-2011, 03:11 AM
Does this elusive, ghost of a husband of Samantha Brando not have a first name? I find it rather strange and annoying that no one has yet given him one. I keep looking for it but can't find it. The article I just read talked about him being the one drinking with DB on the front porch, yet even in this article they just call him "Brando". Anyone? :banghead:

Dewey2Me1MoThyme
11-08-2011, 03:18 AM
Does this elusive, ghost of a husband of Samantha Brando not have a first name? I find it rather strange and annoying that no one has yet given him one. I keep looking for it but can't find it. The article I just read talked about him being the one drinking with DB on the front porch, yet even in this article they just call him "Brando". Anyone? :banghead:

I'm not sure if we are allowed to name him yet, or slueth him, but I think using initials JB is acceptable, if not, would a mod please snip this post? :blushing:

neesaki
11-08-2011, 03:21 AM
Well, dewey, at least I'm not the only insomniac on this forum, lol.

Anyway, though probably already posted somewhere, this is the article, so we should be able to name him, or :waitasec: maybe not :

http://www.christianpost.com/news/baby-lisa-irwin-missing-neighbor-given-polygraph-60433/

Dewey2Me1MoThyme
11-08-2011, 03:35 AM
Well, dewey, at least I'm not the only insomniac on this forum, lol.

Anyway, though probably already posted somewhere, this is the article, so we should be able to name him, or :waitasec: maybe not :

http://www.christianpost.com/news/baby-lisa-irwin-missing-neighbor-given-polygraph-60433/

I'm still a bit confused as to naming him because the article youposted doesn't. BTW, not only am I an insomniac, I have 3 schnauzers, a cat and a wannabe, I'm not allowed to sleep. :floorlaugh:

Backwoods
11-08-2011, 03:39 AM
I think it's totally rational that may have been what happened. I think you may need to also throw in that she then went on to throw away her baby and cover her tracks. That's what makes it hard to fathom.

But agreed, totally possible.

I think some of us who seem to be "anti-guilt" aren't really anti-guilt, the guilty theories are just well represented so we discuss other possible theories as a way to keep an open mind until we have evidence and information.

Obviously LE thought it was a good enough theory to investigate, so I don't think it's irrational either, kwim?

bbm: Well said!! This seems to be the position I find myself in so many times.

serveitup
11-08-2011, 09:05 AM
Remembering some things, and not others is not a black out. It's normal drunken brain fog IMO. Black out means that entire chunks are essentially blacked out from your awareness.

JMO.

I still have a dislocated jawbone from 40 years ago where a fist hit my face and he "couldn't believe he did that" and even cried, he had no memory of it.

askfornina
11-09-2011, 09:10 AM
jimspellmancnn jim spellman
@
@pdb1974 DB;s next door neighbor is a reservist in the USAF who is currently on active duty working at a base about 60 miles away.

AZlawyer
11-09-2011, 11:38 AM
Well, dewey, at least I'm not the only insomniac on this forum, lol.

Anyway, though probably already posted somewhere, this is the article, so we should be able to name him, or :waitasec: maybe not :

http://www.christianpost.com/news/baby-lisa-irwin-missing-neighbor-given-polygraph-60433/

I think there is one letter missing from this article. It says:

"The spouse of Samantha Brando was interviewed by CNN on Wednesday. He is a close friend with baby Lisa's mother, Deborah Bradley, and was with Bradley the evening of Oct. 3 drinking and smoking cigarettes."

I think they meant:

The spouse of Samantha Brando was interviewed by CNN on Wednesday. She is a close friend with baby Lisa's mother, Deborah Bradley, and was with Bradley the evening of Oct. 3 drinking and smoking cigarettes.

:banghead:

askfornina
12-14-2011, 11:00 AM
bumping this thread with this new blog post from Rugen for discussion:

http://kansascitypi.blogspot.com/2011/12/progress-for-lisa-irwin.html


I then spent some time with James Brando on Saturday afternoon, the next door neighbor to Lisa Irwin's parents. James offered to help me decipher any cell information that came my way, telling me about his experience in that area. He laughed and said I am sure you are aware of my experience. I told him a lot of us are aware. We then discussed Gil Abeyta's "profile" that fingers him as the lead suspect. He said he has a copy of that report. If I remember right, Mike Thompson (the motorcyclist with the potential 4:10am sighting of a potential suspect) said the person had salt and pepper gray hair. At this time, Brando has his hair trimmed to the scalp and it did not appear to have much gray from the growth I saw. I am not convinced, with all due respect to Mr. Abeyta, that Brando has any culpability.

I also met Samantha Brando for a bit as James and I spoke. She remains friends with Deborah Bradley. Again, both of these persons appear to be innocent players as much information as I have pulled together from both this weekend and previously.

cityslick
12-14-2011, 11:20 AM
bumping this thread with this new blog post from Rugen for discussion:

http://kansascitypi.blogspot.com/2011/12/progress-for-lisa-irwin.html

It's telling to me that the people closest to DB/JI continue to stand by her and think she is innocent. Not all of them are family. They know her better than anyone else.

Detective Klimpt
12-14-2011, 01:26 PM
There are errors in a couple of the above posts. JB was not drinking with SB and DB. That was Shane B.

menmo
12-14-2011, 02:12 PM
It's telling to me that the people closest to DB/JI continue to stand by her and think she is innocent. Not all of them are family. They know her better than anyone else.

Alrighty then. Not something I really like discussing but....

Years ago I had a friend through my teenage years and into both of our marriages. We were getting divorced at the same time. Just like in my marriage she had issues in hers. Both of ours escalated into nasty custody battles. Long story short, her husband was killed. Not by her but supposedly by someone she hired. That was over 20 years ago and still I have my doubts. It's hard to imagine not knowing someone well enough to know what they are capable of.

MOO

Elley Mae
12-14-2011, 02:24 PM
Alrighty then. Not something I really like discussing but....

Years ago I had a friend through my teenage years and into both of our marriages. We were getting divorced at the same time. Just like in my marriage she had issues in hers. Both of ours escalated into nasty custody battles. Long story short, her husband was killed. Not by her but supposedly by someone she hired. That was over 20 years ago and still I have my doubts. It's hard to imagine not knowing someone well enough to know what they are capable of.

MOO

Thank You. I think that lots of people have a hard time when they find out someone they know could do something that to them seems and is a crime.

There were so many that could not believe that casey would hurt caylee, and better yet believe that cindy would do what she did and pretend to just be tidy when washing casey clothes and cleaning the car.

cityslick
12-14-2011, 02:40 PM
Alrighty then. Not something I really like discussing but....

Years ago I had a friend through my teenage years and into both of our marriages. We were getting divorced at the same time. Just like in my marriage she had issues in hers. Both of ours escalated into nasty custody battles. Long story short, her husband was killed. Not by her but supposedly by someone she hired. That was over 20 years ago and still I have my doubts. It's hard to imagine not knowing someone well enough to know what they are capable of.

MOO

Fair enough and still could be the case here. I think my point was that they know enough about her (and the type of person that she is) to believe her story and stand by her. Doesn't mean DB couldn't still had done something, but I do believe it speaks more to what the people close to DB think of her and maybe even her relationship with BL.

I've heard many different theories as to why DB would do something to harm BL, assuming it was not an accident. Profiling the character of a person based on what their friends and family think helps with that.

deoneta
12-14-2011, 03:25 PM
Fair enough and still could be the case here. I think my point was that they know enough about her (and the type of person that she is) to believe her story and stand by her. Doesn't mean DB couldn't still had done something, but I do believe it speaks more to what the people close to DB think of her and maybe even her relationship with BL.

I've heard many different theories as to why DB would do something to harm BL, assuming it was not an accident. Profiling the character of a person based on what their friends and family think helps with that.

BBM. Profiling the character of a person based on who their friends and family are probably helps, too. Drinking while caring for small children doesn't necessarily lead to criminal behavior, but alcohol abuse is the greatest common denominator in domestic violence and family dysfunction. All MOO.

menmo
12-14-2011, 03:34 PM
Fair enough and still could be the case here. I think my point was that they know enough about her (and the type of person that she is) to believe her story and stand by her. Doesn't mean DB couldn't still had done something, but I do believe it speaks more to what the people close to DB think of her and maybe even her relationship with BL.

I've heard many different theories as to why DB would do something to harm BL, assuming it was not an accident. Profiling the character of a person based on what their friends and family think helps with that.
BBM
If of course everyone is completely honest. I can think of many families and friends that I know would not be in a situation like this even.

MOO

prayers4missing
12-14-2011, 03:47 PM
Just to add, in the Tyler Dasher case, everyone believed SD was innocent. Even the morning she confessed, before we heard it from the attorney, her friends and family were still on proclaiming her innocence.

Thank you Menmo for posting something so private. It has to be hard for anyone to grasp the concept of a friend/relative doing something so heinous.

cityslick
12-14-2011, 03:49 PM
BBM
If of course everyone is completely honest. I can think of many families and friends that I know would not be in a situation like this even.

MOO

TBH, in this case, that's a decent number of people who would lie and cover up for DB if she harmed her daughter (and they knew about it). It's also a lot of people for DB to trust if she shared info with them.

cityslick
12-14-2011, 03:50 PM
Just to add, in the Tyler Dasher case, everyone believed SD was innocent. Even the morning she confessed, before we heard it from the attorney, her friends and family were still on proclaiming her innocence.

Thank you Menmo for posting something so private. It has to be hard for anyone to grasp the concept of a friend/relative doing something so heinous.

I'm not familiar with that case, was there motive? And if there was, was it apparent?

prayers4missing
12-14-2011, 03:52 PM
I'm not familiar with that case, was there motive? And if there was, was it apparent?

She wanted to sleep and he woke her up, so she got angry. No it wasn't apparent, we learned after her arrest that she wanted to sleep he wouldn't lay back down (at 8am) so she killed him.

GoodGurl
12-14-2011, 03:58 PM
And FWIW, in early stages especially, a "what if" guilt can overshadow thought processes. It's possible that both JI and SB are feeling lots of "what if I came home on time Lisa would be here", "what if I didn't drink with her", "what if I paid more attention to things"...

cityslick
12-14-2011, 04:04 PM
And FWIW, in early stages especially, a "what if" guilt can overshadow thought processes. It's possible that both JI and SB are feeling lots of "what if I came home on time Lisa would be here", "what if I didn't drink with her", "what if I paid more attention to things"...

I had brought that up early on. If DB was truly innocent, there are serious levels of guilt that one must go through and I wouldn't doubt that she went through them and perhaps is still going through them.

menmo
12-14-2011, 04:12 PM
TBH, in this case, that's a decent number of people who would lie and cover up for DB if she harmed her daughter (and they knew about it). It's also a lot of people for DB to trust if she shared info with them.
Some people think leaving things out during a conversation isn't lying. To me it is. We just don't know what they've all said to LE either.

I think a guilty person would be quite foolish in telling anyone because if more than one person knows it's not a secret. Most people eventually talk. I would trust no one.

In the case of my friend I spoke about, she never admitted it to me or any of her other friends. I think if she is guilty of this crime (and she has been convicted of murder and more) that her undoing came when she hired someone to kill for her.
I'm still traumatized by it all, thinking that I know someone that was tried and convicted of doing that to another human being.
I've wished my ex to fall off the face of the earth when he was doing some horrible things, but never can I imagine paying someone to take him out or being happy that he died a wrongful death. I don't like him but still wish him no harm.

MOO

Elley Mae
12-14-2011, 04:28 PM
Some people think leaving things out during a conversation isn't lying. To me it is. We just don't know what they've all said to LE either.

I think a guilty person would be quite foolish in telling anyone because if more than one person knows it's not a secret. Most people eventually talk. I would trust no one.

In the case of my friend I spoke about, she never admitted it to me or any of her other friends. I think if she is guilty of this crime (and she has been convicted of murder and more) that her undoing came when she hired someone to kill for her.
I'm still traumatized by it all, thinking that I know someone that was tried and convicted of doing that to another human being.
I've wished my ex to fall off the face of the earth when he was doing some horrible things, but never can I imagine paying someone to take him out or being happy that he died a wrongful death. I don't like him but still wish him no harm.

MOO

Right, that is where I am w/deborah, I just don't think she brought anyone else on board to help her get rid of lisa or the phones.

In reference to her "failing a lie detector" To me it is very simple, had her and jeremy's "stories" jived there would not have been a test for her to fail.

The neighbor probably took it because he left his home that evening Oct 3(due to separation) and it was easy to eliminate him. As it was.

cityslick
12-14-2011, 05:00 PM
Some people think leaving things out during a conversation isn't lying. To me it is. We just don't know what they've all said to LE either.

I think a guilty person would be quite foolish in telling anyone because if more than one person knows it's not a secret. Most people eventually talk. I would trust no one.

In the case of my friend I spoke about, she never admitted it to me or any of her other friends. I think if she is guilty of this crime (and she has been convicted of murder and more) that her undoing came when she hired someone to kill for her.
I'm still traumatized by it all, thinking that I know someone that was tried and convicted of doing that to another human being.
I've wished my ex to fall off the face of the earth when he was doing some horrible things, but never can I imagine paying someone to take him out or being happy that he died a wrongful death. I don't like him but still wish him no harm.

MOO

Sorry you had to go through that. Not to minimize it, I think it does take a little extra something to do the deed yourself (get your hands dirty) vs. having someone else do it. It's still bad no matter what though. Just goes to show that you never know a person's inner thoughts, no matter how well you know them.

GoodGurl
12-14-2011, 05:07 PM
Sorry you had to go through that. Not to minimize it, I think it does take a little extra something to do the deed yourself (get your hands dirty) vs. having someone else do it. It's still bad no matter what though. Just goes to show that you never know a person's inner thoughts, no matter how well you know them.

Or how desperate and trapped someone might feel. It can make people do things they'd never do otherwise.

w1df10wr
02-15-2012, 01:13 AM
Seen a question in another post about this topic. Bumping up, hope that helps.

Whisperer
02-15-2012, 05:17 AM
The neighbor says he passed. Jeremy says he wasn't asked. Am I supposed to believe either of these two?

I see NO reason for LE NOT to give Jeremy Irwin a poly...NONE! I do see Jeremy Irwin refusing to take one though. This guy would crack like a hard boiled egg shell.

Just because he was seen at Starbucks certainly wouldn't eliminate him from having kge of Lisa and what happened to her.

Since these two are all settled in now, what is stopping them from taking one now. These criminal defense attorneys most likely have already polygraphed them. If it was good, they would be yelling about it to the press. They usually will poly them too because they want to know how they will fare for the LE...if they were asked to take one.

Whisperer
02-15-2012, 05:27 AM
I wonder two things about DB. Did she black out and harm her child? She may not know what she did but doesn't want to think she could. She is not sure.

OR does she have a mental disorder? Did she have post partum or does she have an Axis I w/psychosis? I know for a fact that you should never mix Xanax/ativan/valium with liquor. You may get lucky and live but sometimes you die. She has poor judgement at best. My money is on a mental disorder which may or may not be the root of a crime.

Somehow, someway, DB knows or suspects she has everything to do with Lisa gone missing.

cityslick
02-15-2012, 10:04 AM
The neighbor says he passed. Jeremy says he wasn't asked. Am I supposed to believe either of these two?

I see NO reason for LE NOT to give Jeremy Irwin a poly...NONE! I do see Jeremy Irwin refusing to take one though. This guy would crack like a hard boiled egg shell.

Just because he was seen at Starbucks certainly wouldn't eliminate him from having kge of Lisa and what happened to her.

Since these two are all settled in now, what is stopping them from taking one now. These criminal defense attorneys most likely have already polygraphed them. If it was good, they would be yelling about it to the press. They usually will poly them too because they want to know how they will fare for the LE...if they were asked to take one.

LE themselves said they didn't offer a LDT to JI. I believe it was Steve Young who said it early on. Why wouldn't it eliminate him? Do you have evidence that BL was deceased before he went to work?

vlpate
02-20-2012, 12:09 AM
LE themselves said they didn't offer a LDT to JI. I believe it was Steve Young who said it early on. Why wouldn't it eliminate him? Do you have evidence that BL was deceased before he went to work?

I don't think JI would have to physically be there to be a part of this.

vlpate
02-20-2012, 12:11 AM
Ron Rugen posted that JB was training scent dogs. I'd like to hear more about this - at least some verification, because it would be interesting to discuss.

Whisperer
02-20-2012, 01:59 AM
Did you guys hear all the so called friends of Casey's that testified to what a great, awesome mother she was? I don't think one of them had kids. I don't think they knew what being a good mother was about. They were going on an image that casey was portraying at the time. Jury bought it though.

In these other cases,Over and over again we hear what a good mother so and so was. How quiet he was. The people around them won't say much, they will speak very well of them. Heck when my co-worker killed her baby and called it in as an abduction, they supported her totally, even when they found the baby. They liked her and didn't, wouldn't look at her in any other light. I was stunned. They wrote off the child and stood by the mother who killed her. These were all professional people. I have seen enough of human behavior in these matters that it simply stuns one's mind. To witness how human's handle the most heinous crimes around them by somebody they know is not a good judge of the perp's capabilities nor do I consider it a good profile when they give one.

Whisperer
02-20-2012, 02:11 AM
LE themselves said they didn't offer a LDT to JI. I believe it was Steve Young who said it early on. Why wouldn't it eliminate him? Do you have evidence that BL was deceased before he went to work?

Wow! Steve young said he didn't offer him a poly? That would be a big mistake. Even if he was at work, he should have been given one. I bet Young rues the day he did that.

Do I have evidence BL was deceased prior to him going to work? No, and it looks like LE believed the timeline probably up to the point they poly'd DB.

It is a big mistake. You get the poly from both parents as fast as you can. I don't think I ever heard of them saying, "No, you don't need a poly" to parents before. I also don't see JI ever taken one, if offered either.

Whisperer
02-20-2012, 02:18 AM
I'm looking for that statement by Steve Young...Yowers! they screwed up. IIRC, JI was telling people he offered to take one and was told it would not be necessary.

I am stunned. It is difficult for me to conceive of JI offering up to take a poly. He should take one now and settle the whole thing. Think that would happen? Not in this century.

Can anyone point me to Steve Young talking about this poly? I keep getting Irwin saying Young told him it wasn't necessary.

norest4thewicked
02-20-2012, 02:41 AM
Wow! Steve young said he didn't offer him a poly? That would be a big mistake. Even if he was at work, he should have been given one. I bet Young rues the day he did that.

Do I have evidence BL was deceased prior to him going to work? No, and it looks like LE believed the timeline probably up to the point they poly'd DB.

It is a big mistake. You get the poly from both parents as fast as you can. I don't think I ever heard of them saying, "No, you don't need a poly" to parents before. I also don't see JI ever taken one, if offered either.

We have to remember that just because JI said it, doesn't mean that is what happened. For all we know, JI was asked to take one and refused it. LE wasn't at that time, or now, saying anything about the players in the case. JI would be assured that he wouldn't be called out on it.

In da Middle
02-20-2012, 03:12 AM
Wow! Steve young said he didn't offer him a poly? That would be a big mistake. Even if he was at work, he should have been given one. I bet Young rues the day he did that.

Do I have evidence BL was deceased prior to him going to work? No, and it looks like LE believed the timeline probably up to the point they poly'd DB.

It is a big mistake. You get the poly from both parents as fast as you can. I don't think I ever heard of them saying, "No, you don't need a poly" to parents before. I also don't see JI ever taken one, if offered either.
Steve Young had nothing to do with any decision. He is only a police spokesperson. He is not one of the detectives.

Whisperer
02-20-2012, 05:16 AM
So where is the sound bite that Steve Young admitted JI didn't need a poly? I hope this isn't from the same source that told us Lisa was seen @ 4:30pm?

I need a link because it has been understood by many here that LE said they didn't need to poly JI.

Whisperer
02-20-2012, 05:17 AM
Steve Young had nothing to do with any decision. He is only a police spokesperson. He is not one of the detectives.

I don't consider Steve Young ONLY a spokesperson. I am sure he is well aware of this case and has much experience. Isn't he a Captain? Captain requires education and a lot of experience.

So did he state publicly that LE had no need to poly Jeremy?

Whisperer
02-20-2012, 05:26 AM
We have to remember that just because JI said it, doesn't mean that is what happened. For all we know, JI was asked to take one and refused it. LE wasn't at that time, or now, saying anything about the players in the case. JI would be assured that he wouldn't be called out on it.

Ain't that the truth? I completely agree.

So are you saying that LE never stated this publicly; that is was a statement made by JI to the media and not Steve Young?

highflyer
02-20-2012, 05:51 AM
I don't consider Steve Young ONLY a spokesperson. I am sure he is well aware of this case and has much experience. Isn't he a Captain? Captain requires education and a lot of experience.

So did he state publicly that LE had no need to poly Jeremy?

Steve Young is the KCPD Media Relations Commander.

vlpate
02-20-2012, 06:01 AM
Steve Young is the KCPD Media Relations Commander.

Captain Steve Young, KCPD - Media Relations Commander.

Whisperer
02-20-2012, 06:04 AM
Steve Young is the KCPD Media Relations Commander.

Do you have a link for me regarding his statement that JI did not need to take a poly. Did he say Jeremy offered and LE said, "Thanks, but it is not necessary?"

vlpate
02-20-2012, 06:13 AM
Steve Young had nothing to do with any decision. He is only a police spokesperson. He is not one of the detectives.

Steve Young is the Police Captain and Commander of Media Relations. He is most certainly in charge of the detectives and likely the entire precinct. There are commanders for different divisions. He's not just a police spokesperson.

Whisperer
02-20-2012, 06:16 AM
I have been searching for hours for his statement about Jeremy...

highflyer
02-20-2012, 06:26 AM
Do you have a link for me regarding his statement that JI did not need to take a poly. Did he say Jeremy offered and LE said, "Thanks, but it is not necessary?"

Have not looked, but I shall do so.

vlpate
02-20-2012, 06:30 AM
I have been searching for hours for his statement about Jeremy...

Young never made a statement about Jeremy and the LDT. The only statement is the one by Jeremy:

"The main problem I think that we're facing is that everybody (else) has an alibi," Irwin told the AP. "I was at work. I've been cleared. All these other people we were worried about ... the FBI said they've been cleared. The only one you can't clear is the mother that's at home when it happens 'cause there's nobody else there."

"Irwin has not taken a lie-detector test but said he would undergo one if necessary."

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44813949/ns/today-today_people/t/mom-missing-tot-cops-said-you-did-it/#.T0IfFYfOVEI

Whisperer
02-20-2012, 06:43 AM
I found this from Matt Lauer. I wish DB didn't interrupt..oh well. DB had no idea of what questions she failed.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/44813949/ns/today-today_people/t/mom-missing-tot-cops-said-you-did-it/#.T0Ihc4cge8Q

highflyer
02-20-2012, 06:44 AM
Do you have a link for me regarding his statement that JI did not need to take a poly. Did he say Jeremy offered and LE said, "Thanks, but it is not necessary?"

Went back and looked again but have only ever found the statement made by Jeremy that he offered to take a poly and he was told it was not necessary. Steve Young has always declined to comment citing the ongoing investigation.



I've never found anything different when I've looked, and nothing new appeared tonight.

~n/t~
02-20-2012, 06:45 AM
I don't think LE has ever discussed LDT. Whatever we know was told to us by the players in this case.

Whisperer
02-20-2012, 06:52 AM
Okay so some of us have been mislead for a second time. Once with the sighting of Lisa by a toddler, and once with LE making the statement JI did not need to take a poly.

This is exactly what I mean by believing what you read as fact. Bill S/DB put out that story on the toddler seeing Lisa and her mother backed it up with somebody, probably DB/ Bill S.

Now we are being led to believe that LE didn't find it necessary to poly JI. This was all self serving to convince the puble that he was completely covered during the time line.

It seems that many cases that have attorneys on board have these kind of stories going on. I bet we find more.

:waiting:

Whisperer
02-20-2012, 06:57 AM
I stand by my statement that the only good way to assess what is going on is when we see and hear it on video. It got to the point that I was actually thinking I saw and heard Capt. Young telling us that.

Whisperer
02-20-2012, 06:58 AM
Thanks to everyone for your input. I am off to bed..

:offtobed:

cityslick
02-20-2012, 09:57 AM
LE hasn't stated anything about LDT's for anyone involved (DB,JI,SB,JB,etc). I was also under the assumption SY had made a comment about that (I could of swore he had mentioned that at one point). The only comment that LE has made about the LDT's was after the Dr. P. show where they said they never spoke to JT about what the results were of DB's LDT or even if she took an LDT (which was strange to not even acknowledge that she took one).

It makes no sense that JI would lie about not taking an LDT where DB says she not only took a LDT but failed it. The only facts about the LDT's in this case has come from non-verifiable sources (subjects themselves and lawyers). So I guess it's safe to assume we don't know anything about LDT's (who took them, what the results were, etc).

SyraKelly
02-20-2012, 12:01 PM
I remember SY saying something about JI and the LDT- He said something to the effect- it was not necessary-I think it said some time around when SY had the PC and said the parents stop cooperating...I am not feeling well today-but will try and fine soon...
just wanted to say to-a lot that was said in the very beginning is now gone..but I will try and find the link!!

norest4thewicked
02-22-2012, 10:55 AM
Well that's interesting. Who told RR about ML, JB? Someone is lying, why?

Yes, my big question in this too. WHY are people lying? Why would you need to lie if you were telling the truth?

Salem
02-22-2012, 12:27 PM
The rule for FB is - paraphrase and provide a linke. NO copy/paste.

AND NO copying comments from other members' FB. If the member wants their FB comments discussed here, they can bring the subject here themselves.

Thanks,

Salem

ETA: I want to clarify -- it is okay to discuss the info on this particular FB. Please just remember that it belongs to a member here and don't treat the member as if they will not see your post. They WILL. That's okay, just discuss it with them also. And remember - no cut/paste, paraphrase and provide the link.

Thanks!

nursebeeme
02-24-2012, 11:26 AM
PLEASE THANK THIS POST BEFORE POSTING

The Lisa Irwin forum appears to be made up of cliques. You know, the type you have in high school before you begin to understand that there are a lot of interesting people and places in the world and your fear of such limits the personal boundaries you set for yourself. The disrespect between the two cliques is tiresome.


That being said, we need another review of the rules (which is really just a curtesy as everyone should know them or how to find and read them by now): This is NOT hard. Post YOUR thoughts, theories and interpretations (easy enough right?). Read the thoughts of others (not hard). Respond to those that may be of a like mind (okay, that should work). If you disagree with another poster and cannot post nicely, MOVE PAST THEIR POST (how hard is that?) If another poster gets under your skin, PUT THEM ON IGNORE (only takes about a minute). If you must refute their post - then use a link and state the fact as YOU see it (you all know this case, it can't be that hard). THEN DROP IT! That's it. See, not hard. If a post offends you, ALERT it, DO NOT RESPOND TO IT, and MOVE ON. It is okay to disagree, but it is NOT OKAY to attack or make fun of others. AND THE SNARK...well, that needs to just STOP.



It is our hope this gets the message across. There are many good posters here and no matter what opinion we may hold on who we feel is responsible we all are here for Lisa Irwin and want her to come home safely and soon.

Thanks so much,

The Lisa Irwin forum moderators

norest4thewicked
04-06-2012, 01:31 PM
I have searched and searched this morning to find the interview last night where Mark Klaas was being interviewed about Lisa and her being missing for 6 months. Gil Abeyta was one of the people who did a call-in interview and whoever the moderator was, just let him go on and on. I don't remember what show it was on, I was thinking perhaps JVM, but I'm sure someone here saw it and knows what I'm talking about. I have to admit that I was absolutely shocked that Abeyta is still running on the assumption that James Brando is the abductor. He outlined how Brando had military training to teach him how to do these type of missions, etc. I was just flabbergasted to hear this theory again!

I know that Gil has had his own experience, but this experience sure seems to have jaded him in this case. And, I was even more surprised that whoever the moderator was, they just let him keep going about this bizarre theory. I felt bad for him, actually.

If anyone knows how to find this video, I would love to see it again and be very appreciative because I think I was in so much shock that I didn't catch it all!

redheadedgal
04-06-2012, 04:14 PM
it wasn't JVM (or NG or Dr Drew)... just checked the CNN transcripts that i could online... sorry not more helpful...


:seeya:

vlpate
04-06-2012, 04:26 PM
I have searched and searched this morning to find the interview last night where Mark Klaas was being interviewed about Lisa and her being missing for 6 months. Gil Abeyta was one of the people who did a call-in interview and whoever the moderator was, just let him go on and on. I don't remember what show it was on, I was thinking perhaps JVM, but I'm sure someone here saw it and knows what I'm talking about. I have to admit that I was absolutely shocked that Abeyta is still running on the assumption that James Brando is the abductor. He outlined how Brando had military training to teach him how to do these type of missions, etc. I was just flabbergasted to hear this theory again!

I know that Gil has had his own experience, but this experience sure seems to have jaded him in this case. And, I was even more surprised that whoever the moderator was, they just let him keep going about this bizarre theory. I felt bad for him, actually.

If anyone knows how to find this video, I would love to see it again and be very appreciative because I think I was in so much shock that I didn't catch it all!
This was on last night?
No clue which show?

mimi56
04-06-2012, 04:52 PM
I saw that. IIRC, it was the show on HLN that airs just before JVM. Vinny Politan's show. Sorry can't think of the name of it and I believe Mike Brooks was sitting in for Vinny. HTH :)

4Jacy
04-06-2012, 05:28 PM
I have searched and searched this morning to find the interview last night where Mark Klaas was being interviewed about Lisa and her being missing for 6 months. Gil Abeyta was one of the people who did a call-in interview and whoever the moderator was, just let him go on and on. I don't remember what show it was on, I was thinking perhaps JVM, but I'm sure someone here saw it and knows what I'm talking about. I have to admit that I was absolutely shocked that Abeyta is still running on the assumption that James Brando is the abductor. He outlined how Brando had military training to teach him how to do these type of missions, etc. I was just flabbergasted to hear this theory again!

I know that Gil has had his own experience, but this experience sure seems to have jaded him in this case. And, I was even more surprised that whoever the moderator was, they just let him keep going about this bizarre theory. I felt bad for him, actually.

If anyone knows how to find this video, I would love to see it again and be very appreciative because I think I was in so much shock that I didn't catch it all!

I saw that also, and I was surprised because I had thought we moved past James Brando, I guess Gil just can't, but I can understand his position. I feel bad for him also. I think Mike Brooks was on with him. Good luck finding it.

Donjeta
04-06-2012, 05:31 PM
Has GA elaborated on what he thinks the neighbor did with Lisa after abducting her?

redheadedgal
04-06-2012, 05:59 PM
in this article he outlines 5 possible reasons someone would kidnap a baby

1) love
2) ransom
3) sale
4) accident
5) revenge

he says statistics rule out 1, 2, 3 which leaves only 4 and 5

if he thinks JB took her that rules out 4 so that leaves 5 which coincidentally is the same reason he believes his baby was taken

how or why JB would be involved in a revenge scenario in his mind or what he thinks JB did with her, IDK.

http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/baby-lisa-still-missing-why-would-someone-take-her

4Jacy
04-06-2012, 06:21 PM
in this article he outlines 5 possible reasons someone would kidnap a baby

1) love
2) ransom
3) sale
4) accident
5) revenge

he says statistics rule out 1, 2, 3 which leaves only 4 and 5

if he thinks JB took her that rules out 4 so that leaves 5 which coincidentally is the same reason he believes his baby was taken

how or why JB would be involved in a revenge scenario in his mind or what he thinks JB did with her, IDK.

http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/baby-lisa-still-missing-why-would-someone-take-her

BBM

Perhaps Gil feels this way because JB and SB were separating that evening and it was stated that SB was seeing DB's cousin. In a twisted mind (which I'm not saying JB has/had) perhaps revenge for this would be a good enough reason. Also, JB had extensive military training.

So, let's suppose JB did take BL. He had the means, opportunity, and motive.

That is why I believe he could not have done this. I believe the police checked out everything he said and did, and more then once.

Donjeta
04-06-2012, 06:33 PM
He forgets 6) covering up child's not-so-accidental death.

The reason I have a hard time thinking that this was any kind of well-planned precise military operation is that I would not expect such an abductor to let himself be seen with the baby without any kind of disguise. Some neighbors apparently saw him without as much as a baseball cap or a hoodie to cover his features and the baby was well visible as well.

redheadedgal
04-06-2012, 06:39 PM
4jacy-- you are absolutely correct: from the GA thread:

Reporter Jim Spellman said a spokesman for the Kansas City Police Department confirmed that the neighbor has been cleared of any involvement in the disappearance of baby Lisa. The spokesperson said the department "has moved on from him," according to CNN."


have no idea what GA thinks JB "did" with lisa if he took her for that reason... ??? !!!

(that revenge theory? quite fantastical imo and definitely against occam's razor)

Melon
04-06-2012, 06:39 PM
He forgets 6) covering up child's not-so-accidental death.

The reason I have a hard time thinking that this was any kind of well-planned precise military operation is that I would not expect such an abductor to let himself be seen with the baby without any kind of disguise. Some neighbors apparently saw him without as much as a baseball cap or a hoodie to cover his features and the baby was well visible as well.

His window of opportunity would be much narrower than DB's, too. SB was said to have stayed outside with someone else after DB went inside, IIRC.

Donjeta
04-06-2012, 06:47 PM
I am also at a loss to understand why an effective military planner would have chosen to loiter in the neighborhood for hours after abducting the baby, fiddling with phones, instead of making a quick getaway. It was not to dispose of the baby there if he was sighted with the baby at 4 am. elsewhere.

norest4thewicked
04-06-2012, 07:28 PM
I saw that. IIRC, it was the show on HLN that airs just before JVM. Vinny Politan's show. Sorry can't think of the name of it and I believe Mike Brooks was sitting in for Vinny. HTH :)

Okay, thanks so much. That was part of why I was confused (besides being in a general state of confusion). :) I knew it was on HLN because that's all I watch at that time but just couldn't figure it out. Appreciate the info!

norest4thewicked
04-06-2012, 07:31 PM
Has GA elaborated on what he thinks the neighbor did with Lisa after abducting her?

No...it was a bit of an uncomfortable time because it was at the end of the segment and GA was sort of rambling and Mike Brooks didn't seem to know what to say. I felt sorry for GA because while he has gone through something no one should ever have to go through, he seems to base his theories on the past, and you just can't do that in a case like this.

norest4thewicked
04-06-2012, 07:35 PM
in this article he outlines 5 possible reasons someone would kidnap a baby

1) love
2) ransom
3) sale
4) accident
5) revenge

he says statistics rule out 1, 2, 3 which leaves only 4 and 5

if he thinks JB took her that rules out 4 so that leaves 5 which coincidentally is the same reason he believes his baby was taken

how or why JB would be involved in a revenge scenario in his mind or what he thinks JB did with her, IDK.

http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/baby-lisa-still-missing-why-would-someone-take-her

I agree, it is the most ridiculous theories of all, in my opinion.

redheadedgal
07-18-2012, 06:05 PM
... I was absolutely shocked that Abeyta is still running on the assumption that James Brando is the abductor...

unlike an just sentenced example (linked below) which actually is in line with FBI statistics and profiles (along with the other example earlier this spring where a woman killed the mother/stole the baby as the mom left a dr's office) of who kidnaps very young children:

FBI: "About once a month, a woman somewhere in the U.S. steals a baby. She takes the child because she can't conceive, because she has lost a child or because she has just suffered a miscarriage or stillbirth."

"Documented cases of baby-nappers show they are nearly always women, and although they range in age from 16 to 72, they are primarily in their mid-20s or early 40s."


stephanie foster, woman, 36:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57474331-504083/stephanie-foster-attempted-baby-snatcher-gets-28-years-in-ind-prison/?tag=contentMain%3BcontentBody

RANCH
07-18-2012, 06:21 PM
unlike an just sentenced example (linked below) which actually is in line with FBI statistics and profiles (along with the other example earlier this spring where a woman killed the mother/stole the baby as the mom left a dr's office) of who kidnaps very young children:

FBI: "About once a month, a woman somewhere in the U.S. steals a baby. She takes the child because she can't conceive, because she has lost a child or because she has just suffered a miscarriage or stillbirth."

"Documented cases of baby-nappers show they are nearly always women, and although they range in age from 16 to 72, they are primarily in their mid-20s or early 40s."


stephanie foster, woman, 36:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57474331-504083/stephanie-foster-attempted-baby-snatcher-gets-28-years-in-ind-prison/?tag=contentMain%3BcontentBody
Thanks for your post. So if there's evidence of an intruder taking Lisa, statistics show that it's more likely a women than a man who did it.

Cappuccino
07-18-2012, 06:27 PM
unlike an just sentenced example (linked below) which actually is in line with FBI statistics and profiles (along with the other example earlier this spring where a woman killed the mother/stole the baby as the mom left a dr's office) of who kidnaps very young children:

FBI: "About once a month, a woman somewhere in the U.S. steals a baby. She takes the child because she can't conceive, because she has lost a child or because she has just suffered a miscarriage or stillbirth."

"Documented cases of baby-nappers show they are nearly always women, and although they range in age from 16 to 72, they are primarily in their mid-20s or early 40s."


stephanie foster, woman, 36:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57474331-504083/stephanie-foster-attempted-baby-snatcher-gets-28-years-in-ind-prison/?tag=contentMain%3BcontentBody

That would be the best case scenario, because it would mean Lisa is still alive. And while this might be wishful thinking, I can see that happening here. If a woman in that mental state was watching DB drinking out on her front porch on a regular basis, she might have convinced herself she was doing a good thing by taking her.

iamnotagolem
07-18-2012, 06:32 PM
So our best SODDI is that SB who miscarried while DB was pregnant with Lisa managed to take Lisa and has her stashed somewhere? Honestly it's my favorite theory since that means Lisa is alive, I'd just like some evidence. How would Lisa be kept concealed all the time? Does SB still live next door to DB/JI?

I mean honestly SB could have had it arranged ahead of time, and said "I'm gonna pee and check on the kids" and handed Lisa out the back door.

Cappuccino
07-18-2012, 06:33 PM
So our best SODDI is that SB who miscarried while DB was pregnant with Lisa managed to take Lisa and has her stashed somewhere? Honestly it's my favorite theory since that means Lisa is alive, I'd just like some evidence. How would Lisa be kept concealed all the time? Does SB still live next door to DB/JI?

I mean honestly SB could have had it arranged ahead of time, and said "I'm gonna pee and check on the kids" and handed Lisa out the back door.

I wasn't talking about SB, I meant some as yet unknown woman who was watching the house.

iamnotagolem
07-18-2012, 06:47 PM
I wasn't talking about SB, I meant some as yet unknown woman who was watching the house.

The problem I have with a stranger abduction is the lack of evidence. While we do not know everything the police know, if there had been evidence of a stranger abduction surely the police would be asking for the public's help in locating Lisa. If SB took or had Lisa taken, then her DNA would already be in the house and it wouldn't raise a red flag.

Not that I'm sold on that theory since we have a cadaver hit, no Lisa sightings, and from what we know SB and DB are still friends. I'd think that'd be a hard thing to keep from a friend.

Cappuccino
07-18-2012, 06:57 PM
The problem I have with a stranger abduction is the lack of evidence. While we do not know everything the police know, if there had been evidence of a stranger abduction surely the police would be asking for the public's help in locating Lisa. If SB took or had Lisa taken, then her DNA would already be in the house and it wouldn't raise a red flag.

Not that I'm sold on that theory since we have a cadaver hit, no Lisa sightings, and from what we know SB and DB are still friends. I'd think that'd be a hard thing to keep from a friend.

Yes, I see what you mean. But at the same time, what evidence was there in the Crowe house of Richard Tuitte's presence? What evidence was in Riley Fox's house of Ely whatsisname's presence?

None, in both cases. They had to find the child and/or the perpetrator before they found evidence connecting them to the crime. So there wouldn't necessarily be evidence inside the home itself of any intruder.

redheadedgal
07-19-2012, 11:20 PM
lol-- if a woman took lisa irwin, why were all the "sightings" about a man with a baby? :waitasec:

RANCH
07-20-2012, 12:10 PM
lol-- if a woman took lisa irwin, why were all the "sightings" about a man with a baby? :waitasec:

Well, that fits with your post that says documented cases of baby-nappers are nearly always women. That would mean that in some cases men are the baby-nappers.

Another possibility is that the sightings you mentioned were not of Lisa Irwin but some other child.
JMO.