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View Full Version : Keeping up w/the "Lies" "Truths" "Facts" "Rumor" or "Plain Wrong"


neese
11-05-2011, 10:18 PM
http://websleuths.com/forums/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=463

Thought maybe this thread would be easier for us to view for the things we know for sure is a lie, or a truth, or a fact or just plain wrong, in order to put some of the contradictions to rest and help us sleuthers to not bang our head against the wall. :banghead:

Ok, regarding the lights being reported as off by the neighbor, then watching this video (link above) at the 7:24 mark, JI mentions...pumpkin light was on????? Are you kidding me? Really? So the phone napper/kid napper also took the time to plug in the pumpkin light in the computer room?

My best guess on this is "neighbor is plain wrong, or lying" DB never turned the lights off. For what reason, I don't know. Actually drunk, or staging the scene.

So for this post, I guess I would label it as "plain wrong, or too drunk to know."

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to even start a thread so feel free to delete it...mods!! :innocent: Not a problem..:crazy:

ETA: If stating a fact: Don't forget to link it..

neese
11-05-2011, 10:34 PM
I'll be the first to post the one fact we surely do know that doesn't need a link-Baby Lisa is missing and it breaks our hearts.

norest4thewicked
11-05-2011, 10:48 PM
The problem with starting a thread like this is that us here at Websleuths can't even agree on what is a truth or a lie. But, it should definitely get some interesting conversations going! :)

neese
11-05-2011, 10:53 PM
The problem with starting a thread like this is that us here at Websleuths can't even agree on what is a truth or a lie. But, it should definitely get some interesting conversations going! :)

I know. For real. I was reading in other threads and have bitten all of my fingernails off. It is hard to figure out. At least with this thread, it's easier to point out right away if the poster will say it's a fact or not with a link. Although links are required on the entire board for facts but I keep reading posts with no link and knowing I heard something very different the day before. We'll have to see. :crazy:

norest4thewicked
11-05-2011, 10:53 PM
I think that another truth that most of us can accept is that DB drank wine that night...how much is still up in the air.

norest4thewicked
11-05-2011, 10:55 PM
Also...I see that you are new here! Welcome! Websleuths is a great place, albeit a bit addictive! :)

AngelWings444
11-05-2011, 10:58 PM
Truth:

1. Baby Lisa is missing. Don't know date, time etc..

2. Parent's aren't answering the questions LE needs in order to aide them in locating Baby Lisa.

3. Paren't won't allow the boys to be re-interviewed.

4. Mom and brother were on tape purchasing alcohol.

5. There was "hit" in the parents room. :furious:

AngelWings444
11-05-2011, 11:00 PM
I think that another truth that most of us can accept is that DB drank wine that night...how much is still up in the air.

I don't accept that Mom was drinking wine that night. I don't believe a word she says. Until LE tells us she drank wine, I won't believe it.

I do believe she purchased wine, saw that on video.

flipflop
11-05-2011, 11:00 PM
I agree that the only thing we know for sure is that Baby Lisa is missing...everything else is either a rumor, lie or a change in the story line. JMO

RANCH
11-05-2011, 11:02 PM
Truth:

1. Baby Lisa is missing. Don't know date, time etc..

2. Parent's aren't answering the questions LE needs in order to aide them in locating Baby Lisa.

3. Paren't won't allow the boys to be re-interviewed.

4. Mom and brother were on tape purchasing alcohol.

5. There was "hit" in the parents room. :furious:

Are you saying the parents never answered these questions? Or not recently?

norest4thewicked
11-05-2011, 11:03 PM
Truth:

1. Baby Lisa is missing. Don't know date, time etc..

2. Parent's aren't answering the questions LE needs in order to aide them in locating Baby Lisa.

3. Paren't won't allow the boys to be re-interviewed.

4. Mom and brother were on tape purchasing alcohol.

5. There was "hit" in the parents room. :furious:

But, just playing devil's advocate here. There are some on here who don't believe that there was a hit in the parents room and also feel that the parent's have answered enough to LE. Not me, but some others.

neese
11-05-2011, 11:04 PM
Also...I see that you are new here! Welcome! Websleuths is a great place, albeit a bit addictive! :)

Thank you. I joined in 2009 and mainly lurked around during the CA craziness but I am really enjoying participating. My boyfriend broke up with me for websleuthing and watching Nancy Grace. He says it will attract bad things to me. I don't think it's likely that anyone wants to kidnap a 43 year old single chick with a dalmatian, they'd just bring me back and keep my dog. But it is nice to be rid of his controlling ***. So I shall sleuth on....:rocker:

norest4thewicked
11-05-2011, 11:05 PM
I don't accept that Mom was drinking wine that night. I don't believe a word she says. Until LE tells us she drank wine, I won't believe it.

I do believe she purchased wine, saw that on video.

Haha...thanks for proving my point up thread. No one here can agree on anything...:crazy:

norest4thewicked
11-05-2011, 11:06 PM
Thank you. I joined in 2009 and mainly lurked around during the CA craziness but I am really enjoying participating. My boyfriend broke up with me for websleuthing and watching Nancy Grace. He says it will attract bad things to me. I don't think it's likely that anyone wants to kidnap a 43 year old single chick with a dalmatian, they'd just bring me back and keep my dog. But it is nice to be rid of his controlling ***. So I shall sleuth on....:rocker:

You GO GIRL!!!:rocker:

Chewy
11-05-2011, 11:06 PM
If DB drank wine and then stumbled off to bed too drunk to check on Lisa, I would imagine she wouldn't have washed out her wine glass. So if there isn't one then that is suspect to me.

AngelWings444
11-05-2011, 11:06 PM
Are you saying the parents never answered these questions? Or not recently?
According to LE, the parents haven't answered their questions since the first week of Oct, for a total of 11 hours.

neese
11-05-2011, 11:07 PM
I think that another truth that most of us can accept is that DB drank wine that night...how much is still up in the air.

I totally "think" that she was drunk myself. Not sure about blackout drunk, but I can see that scenario, yet I do see a lot of fellow posters here that think the "blacked out and drunk" part is to set up a defense. I just really do think she was wasted myself. JMO. No link because I don't live near her to have seen her on the stoop. :waitasec:

AngelWings444
11-05-2011, 11:08 PM
Haha...thanks for proving my point up thread. No one here can agree on anything...:crazy:
I only believe what LE has released in statements/warrants and what I have witnessed with my own eyes.

We all SAW her on video purchasing the wine, none of us saw her drink it. DB "claims" she was drunk, may have blacked out..blah, blah, blah. I don't believe a word she says.

norest4thewicked
11-05-2011, 11:10 PM
I actually believe that her being drunk plays a big part in why Lisa is gone. My theory is that DB either accidentally overdosed her or lost her temper and shook or threw Lisa down and she hit her head. There's no way I will believe that she didn't have at least 10 glasses of wine.

AngelWings444
11-05-2011, 11:12 PM
But, just playing devil's advocate here. There are some on here who don't believe that there was a hit in the parents room and also feel that the parent's have answered enough to LE. Not me, but some others.
According to the warrant, there was a "hit" in the room, somewhere. According to LE, the parent's aren't answering. I lean towards only believing LE in this case.

Hoping and praying LE has been building their case and it's not getting cold. Lisa deserves justice.

AngelWings444
11-05-2011, 11:14 PM
This thread is going to become another theory thread. :floorlaugh: There aren't that many FACTS. :maddening:

neese
11-05-2011, 11:16 PM
But, just playing devil's advocate here. There are some on here who don't believe that there was a hit in the parents room and also feel that the parent's have answered enough to LE. Not me, but some others.

I have been wanting to post this about the HRD hit but didn't want to gross anyone out. I do believe there was a hit. But after hearing about blood being considered "human decomp" it reminded me of an ex-friend of mine, who I've posted about on other threads...being she is an everyday/blackout drunk but anyway, during that dreaded female time of the month, she would have used tampons, I know I know this is soooooooooo gross, but they would just be laying in her living room, her bedroom and everywhere. Used ones. She told her kids that they were dead mice. So while I' m sure DB is not the slob that my ex-friend was, or gross, or however you wanna look at it, I did wonder if the hit could come from something like that, or maybe during that monthly time, DB and JI had relations on da floor, b/c maybe that have a really squeaky, creaky (speculation) bed. That's all that has went through my mind is that it may be something that simple rather than a dead body decomposing. It killed me to write that gross stuff and now I need a glass of my box o' wine. I really did buy some yesterday and I'm on my 3rd glass, LOL. Tastes like vinegar to me. YUCK. And I loved cheap wine when I was younger. Ok, I'm O/T on my own thread. Sorry fellow posters. Carry on. :seeya:

norest4thewicked
11-05-2011, 11:18 PM
According to the warrant, there was a "hit" in the room, somewhere. According to LE, the parent's aren't answering. I lean towards only believing LE in this case.

Hoping and praying LE has been building their case and it's not getting cold. Lisa deserves justice.

We actually can accept the hit in the bedroom to be a truth because LE used that point as part of the search warrant. They only needed one. For all we know, the dogs could have hit on 10 other places.

norest4thewicked
11-05-2011, 11:20 PM
I have been wanting to post this about the HRD hit but didn't want to gross anyone out. I do believe there was a hit. But after hearing about blood being considered "human decomp" it reminded me of an ex-friend of mine, who I've posted about on other threads...being she is an everyday/blackout drunk but anyway, during that dreaded female time of the month, she would have used tampons, I know I know this is soooooooooo gross, but they would just be laying in her living room, her bedroom and everywhere. Used ones. She told her kids that they were dead mice. So while I' m sure DB is not the slob that my ex-friend was, or gross, or however you wanna look at it, I did wonder if the hit could come from something like that, or maybe during that monthly time, DB and JI had relations on da floor, b/c maybe that have a really squeaky, creaky (speculation) bed. That's all that has went through my mind is that it may be something that simple rather than a dead body decomposing. It killed me to write that gross stuff and now I need a glass of my box o' wine. I really did buy some yesterday and I'm on my 3rd glass, LOL. Tastes like vinegar to me. YUCK. And I loved cheap wine when I was younger. Ok, I'm O/T on my own thread. Sorry fellow posters. Carry on. :seeya:

I don't have the link, but I could get it. One of our dog experts was asked that question over on the dog thread and they said it would only hit on the tampon of a dead person.

neese
11-05-2011, 11:22 PM
According to the warrant, there was a "hit" in the room, somewhere. According to LE, the parent's aren't answering. I lean towards only believing LE in this case.

Hoping and praying LE has been building their case and it's not getting cold. Lisa deserves justice.

Well that there is a "fact". There was definitely a search warrant. Link: http://www.kmbc.com/slideshow/r/29552567/detail.html

shaye
11-05-2011, 11:28 PM
I only believe what LE has released in statements/warrants and what I have witnessed with my own eyes.

We all SAW her on video purchasing the wine, none of us saw her drink it. DB "claims" she was drunk, may have blacked out..blah, blah, blah. I don't believe a word she says.

Exactly!! DB only brings up being drunk to the point of not knowing ANYTHING after buying the Box of Wine and changing the entire time line of when Baby Lisa went missing AFTER the video was released of her and her brother at the store. She jumped on the chance to take full advantage of LE releasing that video and tried to turn the tables in her interest not Lisa's. If she was drinking that night why not tell LE the truth from the start?!? I don't believe anything she says, she knows exactly what happened to her daughter, imo.

essies
11-05-2011, 11:28 PM
I actually believe that her being drunk plays a big part in why Lisa is gone. My theory is that DB either accidentally overdosed her or lost her temper and shook or threw Lisa down and she hit her head. There's no way I will believe that she didn't have at least 10 glasses of wine.

There's no way to know if DB also shared with SB whatever she(SB) went and bought at 6:30 either. I wonder if LE has receipts and video tape of that purchase also?:waitasec:

Karmaa
11-05-2011, 11:29 PM
Truth:

1. Baby Lisa is missing. Don't know date, time etc..

2. Parent's aren't answering the questions LE needs in order to aide them in locating Baby Lisa.

3. Paren't won't allow the boys to be re-interviewed.

4. Mom and brother were on tape purchasing alcohol.

5. There was "hit" in the parents room. :furious:

BBM
2. Parents have been answering questions as confirmed by attorneys and Steve Young. Parents have refused to have separate interviews without legal counsel. They claim this is because in previous interviews the focus was not on finding Lisa, but on accusing the parents.

3. We don't know that the parents refuse to allow the boys to be interviewed. We know that the boys have been interviewed at least once. We also know that they have been scheduled to be re-interviewed recently, although plans were later cancelled.

The big problem here is that we know what has or hasn't been done publicly, but we don't know what has or hasn't been done and not reported. And, most importantly, we don't know WHY things have or have not been done. We can't just assume that if the boys have not been interviewed the PARENTS are refusing. Maybe LE cancelled the appointment? It may not be likely, but it is possible.

We also can't assume that because the parents are not willing to sit down and be accused without a lawyer present that they are refusing to talk at all.

I think in this case, the only thing we know for sure is that the baby is gone, and has been gone over a month.

norest4thewicked
11-05-2011, 11:34 PM
BBM
2. Parents have been answering questions as confirmed by attorneys and Steve Young. Parents have refused to have separate interviews without legal counsel. They claim this is because in previous interviews the focus was not on finding Lisa, but on accusing the parents.

3. We don't know that the parents refuse to allow the boys to be interviewed. We know that the boys have been interviewed at least once. We also know that they have been scheduled to be re-interviewed recently, although plans were later cancelled.

The big problem here is that we know what has or hasn't been done publicly, but we don't know what has or hasn't been done and not reported. And, most importantly, we don't know WHY things have or have not been done. We can't just assume that if the boys have not been interviewed the PARENTS are refusing. Maybe LE cancelled the appointment? It may not be likely, but it is possible.

We also can't assume that because the parents are not willing to sit down and be accused without a lawyer present that they are refusing to talk at all.

I think in this case, the only thing we know for sure is that the baby is gone, and has been gone over a month.

DB said herself in an interview that they would not allow the boys to be interviewed by LE again.

And, if LE is not able to ask the parents the questions that will help them be able to continue with their case, they are not cooperating.

AngelWings444
11-05-2011, 11:39 PM
BBM
2. Parents have been answering questions as confirmed by attorneys and Steve Young. Parents have refused to have separate interviews without legal counsel. They claim this is because in previous interviews the focus was not on finding Lisa, but on accusing the parents.

3. We don't know that the parents refuse to allow the boys to be interviewed. We know that the boys have been interviewed at least once. We also know that they have been scheduled to be re-interviewed recently, although plans were later cancelled.

The big problem here is that we know what has or hasn't been done publicly, but we don't know what has or hasn't been done and not reported. And, most importantly, we don't know WHY things have or have not been done. We can't just assume that if the boys have not been interviewed the PARENTS are refusing. Maybe LE cancelled the appointment? It may not be likely, but it is possible.

We also can't assume that because the parents are not willing to sit down and be accused without a lawyer present that they are refusing to talk at all.

I think in this case, the only thing we know for sure is that the baby is gone, and has been gone over a month.

LE is not asking them to be interviewed without their attorney's. I skipped the rest of the post. Sorry. I'm just not going to believe these attorney's, the parent's, or anyone other than LE. LE ARE NOT THE BAD GUY HERE! They are doing their jobs. They are trying to find a missing baby. LE/FBI has been nothing but professional in this case. Until we see evidence (not DB's self-serving, pitiful statements), I am trusting LE/FBI is conducting themselves in a professional manner, with one goal in mind. Bringing Lisa home. Oh, and a little justice might be good too. :twocents:

Karmaa
11-05-2011, 11:40 PM
According to LE, the parents haven't answered their questions since the first week of Oct, for a total of 11 hours.

That's not true:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2053772/Lisa-Irwin-missing-Babys-parents-refuse-interviewed-separately-police.html

The family's attorney Joe Tacopina responded saying that 'they've done everything they've been asked to do… They have nothing to hide, they want answers.'

But when asked by ABC News if there were any restrictions on what they would speak to police about he said: 'Oh, there's a restriction. I'm imposing that the questioning is going to be in good faith and fair and not the questioning that was done within an hour of baby Lisa's disappearance.'


http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-police-tough-questions-parents/story?id=14810300#.TrX_rnLL93c
Young said he is "not disputing" family attorney Joe Tacopina's claims that the family has cooperated and answered other questions, such as specific questions regarding tips and leads. But that is not sufficient, he said.

As you can see, as recently as 10/25, Steve Young agrees that the family has been answering questions. They just refuse to go sit in an interrogation room. If the questions are to help find Lisa, why do the parents need to be in a specific room? They don't. And they are invoking their right to not be put in that terrifying environment.

Karmaa
11-05-2011, 11:42 PM
DB said herself in an interview that they would not allow the boys to be interviewed by LE again.

And, if LE is not able to ask the parents the questions that will help them be able to continue with their case, they are not cooperating.

Is there a link to DB saying that? I honestly have never seen that. Thanks :)

AngelWings444
11-05-2011, 11:44 PM
That's not true:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2053772/Lisa-Irwin-missing-Babys-parents-refuse-interviewed-separately-police.html

The family's attorney Joe Tacopina responded saying that 'they've done everything they've been asked to do… They have nothing to hide, they want answers.'

But when asked by ABC News if there were any restrictions on what they would speak to police about he said: 'Oh, there's a restriction. I'm imposing that the questioning is going to be in good faith and fair and not the questioning that was done within an hour of baby Lisa's disappearance.'


http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-irwin-police-tough-questions-parents/story?id=14810300#.TrX_rnLL93c
Young said he is "not disputing" family attorney Joe Tacopina's claims that the family has cooperated and answered other questions, such as specific questions regarding tips and leads. But that is not sufficient, he said.

As you can see, as recently as 10/25, Steve Young agrees that the family has been answering questions. They just refuse to go sit in an interrogation room. If the questions are to help find Lisa, why do the parents need to be in a specific room? They don't. And they are invoking their right to not be put in that terrifying environment.

Problem # 1: DEFENSE ATTORNEY

Problem #2: Daily mail. :floorlaugh:

Sorry. Personally, I will not entertain what these "lawyers" have to say. Their Press Release statements are self-serving, twisted words, and are only to try to make people feel sorry for them. They aren't cooperating. PERIOD. JMO. You are entitled to yours, as I am entitled to mine.

I agree to disagree.

norest4thewicked
11-05-2011, 11:47 PM
Is there a link to DB saying that? I honestly have never seen that. Thanks :)

This isn't the video, but it is reporting that they will not allow the boys to be re-interviewed. There are dozens of links. I will try to find the video as well where I heard her say it to Megyn Kelly (I believe.)

http://www.examiner.com/missing-persons-in-national/why-are-missing-baby-lisa-s-parents-refusing-to-allow-brothers-interviews

Karmaa
11-05-2011, 11:47 PM
LE is not asking them to be interviewed without their attorney's. I skipped the rest of the post. Sorry. I'm just not going to believe these attorney's, the parent's, or anyone other than LE. LE ARE NOT THE BAD GUY HERE! They are doing their jobs. They are trying to find a missing baby. LE/FBI has been nothing but professional in this case. Until we see evidence (not DB's self-serving, pitiful statements), I am trusting LE/FBI is conducting themselves in a professional manner, with one goal in mind. Bringing Lisa home. Oh, and a little justice might be good too. :twocents:

Whether or not you believe that LE wants the parents interviewed without an attorney, the ATTORNEYS believe that is the case, and have stated that publicly.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/lawyer-refutes-claims-by-police-that-lisa-irwin%27s-parents-have-refused-separate-interviews
The couple's attorney disputed the police account and said Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley, parents of 11-month-old Lisa Irwin, are not opposed to separate interviews. But they will not do what police requested, an unrestricted interview with no attorneys present, the attorney said.

There has been no denial from LE about this, so I would say that no matter what any of us think about it, that is what LE meant. That's certainly what CS took it to mean.(this was said while she was still representing the family).

norest4thewicked
11-05-2011, 11:52 PM
http://foxnewsinsider.com/tag/missing-baby/

Karmaa
11-05-2011, 11:53 PM
Problem # 1: DEFENSE ATTORNEY

Problem #2: Daily mail. :floorlaugh:

Sorry. Personally, I will not entertain what these "lawyers" have to say. Their Press Release statements are self-serving, twisted words, and are only to try to make people feel sorry for them. They aren't cooperating. PERIOD. JMO. You are entitled to yours, as I am entitled to mine.

I agree to disagree.

1. Some people feel the same about LE.
2. That just happened to be the first link that came up. If you don't believe them, track it back to ABC, where they say it came from.

When one is only willing to entertain information that supports their own preconceived opinion, they will miss out on a lot. JMO

AngelWings444
11-05-2011, 11:53 PM
Whether or not you believe that LE wants the parents interviewed without an attorney, the ATTORNEYS believe that is the case, and have stated that publicly.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/lawyer-refutes-claims-by-police-that-lisa-irwin%27s-parents-have-refused-separate-interviews
The couple's attorney disputed the police account and said Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley, parents of 11-month-old Lisa Irwin, are not opposed to separate interviews. But they will not do what police requested, an unrestricted interview with no attorneys present, the attorney said.

There has been no denial from LE about this, so I would say that no matter what any of us think about it, that is what LE meant. That's certainly what CS took it to mean.(this was said while she was still representing the family).
AGAIN, this is what THEIR defense attorney is putting out there. LE has NO obligation to deny or report anything to the media or through the media. In fact, I grateful to the FBI and LE for keeping a lid on this investigation and hopefully, it will aide in bringing Lisa home and a prosecution/conviction.

AngelWings444
11-05-2011, 11:58 PM
1. Some people feel the same about LE.
2. That just happened to be the first link that came up. If you don't believe them, track it back to ABC, where they say it came from.

When one is only willing to entertain information that supports their own preconceived opinion, they will miss out on a lot. JMO

Yes, you shouldn't have a "preconceived opinion"

I don't need to track anything back to ABC or look at the defense statements, opinions etc..I stated that I believe a few things, I don't have to repeat them. This was the question posed in this thread, I have answered what I think is factual.

I have agreed to disagree. Please respect my right to believe in LE and the FBI. I respect your right to believe the parents, defense or whoever you want to believe. :twocents:

Karmaa
11-05-2011, 11:58 PM
http://foxnewsinsider.com/tag/missing-baby/

Well the other link you offered didn't have a direct quote, and this link says "There’s been no word on why Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin decided to cancel the interviews".

I'm not trying to be nitpicky, but the problem in this case is that things have gotten so twisted around that people honestly believe that certain things happened, when they really haven't. I am not saying that you are not "probably" right - but we can't accept that as fact.

Karmaa
11-06-2011, 12:01 AM
Yes, you shouldn't have a "preconceived opinion"

I don't need to track anything back to ABC or look at the defense statements, opinions etc..I stated that I believe a few things, I don't have to repeat them. This was the question posed in this thread, I have answered what I think is factual.

I have agreed to disagree. Please respect my right to believe in LE and the FBI. I respect your right to believe the parents, defense or whoever you want to believe. :twocents:

I believe in EVIDENCE. That's all.

And the thread is not about what any individuals believe to be the truth, but on what IS the truth, backed up by facts. There is a theory thread for opinions. :seeya:

DeAnn
11-06-2011, 12:06 AM
There's no way to know if DB also shared with SB whatever she(SB) went and bought at 6:30 either. I wonder if LE has receipts and video tape of that purchase also?:waitasec:

These are facts. Police found the receipt. Police then went to the store and got the surveillance video. That came from the store owner when talked to media.

If you believe Cyndy Short, when she did a media tour, she showed the box of wine in the kitchen area (I believe on the stove maybe? Don't remember) and it had been drained of the alcohol. She said police did it so they could verify how much was left to compare to how much DB said she drank. But they left the box behind. Although, I guess Cydny culd have fudged and DB could have drank all herself.

norest4thewicked
11-06-2011, 12:07 AM
Well the other link you offered didn't have a direct quote, and this link says "There’s been no word on why Deborah Bradley and Jeremy Irwin decided to cancel the interviews".

I'm not trying to be nitpicky, but the problem in this case is that things have gotten so twisted around that people honestly believe that certain things happened, when they really haven't. I am not saying that you are not "probably" right - but we can't accept that as fact.

With all due respect, I have followed this case from the hour that Lisa was first reported missing. I have read hundreds of threads and watched countless videos. I don't have a perfect memory, but I do know that when I remember seeing something said, I don't forget it. I am still looking for the video.

Sadly though, there are people who will hear the same words out of a person's mouth and try to spin it into meaning they said something else. That is unfortunate.

RANCH
11-06-2011, 12:07 AM
Wow. This thread is getting a bit heated.

neese
11-06-2011, 12:09 AM
Just had to get this out cuz it is bothering me. Earlier while reading the MW/JT thread, I kept seeing posts where my fellow sleuthers were saying in many many posts of how MW's phone number was written on DB's hand. I was a day behind and trying to catch up, but the thread was moving so fast.... But I do want to say....until we hear otherwise....or if one of you know differently, please do tell, but I consider this to be a total "Rumor" or a tactical lie from LE, which I would say is great. As far as I can gather, the (only source that has said MW's cell number was on DB's hand) is what MW has said to media which was, LE told her that. Is there some other source that proves this to be true??? TIA.

And I'm not sure if I made a darn bit of sense, but it's not from the wine...I promise....:woohoo:

Melanie
11-06-2011, 12:12 AM
I think that another truth that most of us can accept is that DB drank wine that night...how much is still up in the air.

I don't even know if I accept that. It could be just a convenient excuse to cover all the gaps in her story. Oh, I was blackout-drunk. Who in their right mind wants to admit that so easily.

Nope - the only truth I know about this case is Lisa Irwin is missing.

MOO

Mel

RANCH
11-06-2011, 12:13 AM
Just had to get this out cuz it is bothering me. Earlier while reading the MW/JT thread, I kept seeing posts where my fellow sleuthers were saying in many many posts of how MW's phone number was written on DB's hand. I was a day behind and trying to catch up, but the thread was moving so fast.... But I do want to say....until we hear otherwise....or if one of you know differently, please do tell, but I consider this to be a total "Rumor" or a tactical lie from LE, which I would say is great. As far as I can gather, the (only source that has said MW's cell number was on DB's hand) is what MW has said to media which was, LE told her that. Is there some other source that proves this to be true??? TIA.

And I'm not sure if I made a darn bit of sense, but it's not from the wine...I promise....:woohoo:

Not that I know of.

neese
11-06-2011, 12:15 AM
I believe in EVIDENCE. That's all.

And the thread is not about what any individuals believe to be the truth, but on what IS the truth, backed up by facts. There is a theory thread for opinions. :seeya:

Sorry :confused: Maybe I should have just named the thread opinions. Guess I made it too wordy. I am sorry. I am not a mod, but just a gentle reminder for all of us, me included.....we are all on the same team. FIND BABY LISA :banghead:

norest4thewicked
11-06-2011, 12:17 AM
I don't even know if I accept that. It could be just a convenient excuse to cover all the gaps in her story. Oh, I was blackout-drunk. Who in their right mind wants to admit that so easily.

Nope - the only truth I know about this case is Lisa Irwin is missing.

MOO

Mel

Well, I would tend to agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that I can't see DB sitting there all night while her friend drank and she didn't. But, I suppose it's possible. I don't believe much of anything she says, so you could be right!

Melanie
11-06-2011, 12:21 AM
Wow. This thread is getting a bit heated.

And that's my cue to exit stage left....

:seeya:

krimekat
11-06-2011, 12:25 AM
Thank you. I joined in 2009 and mainly lurked around during the CA craziness but I am really enjoying participating. My boyfriend broke up with me for websleuthing and watching Nancy Grace. He says it will attract bad things to me. I don't think it's likely that anyone wants to kidnap a 43 year old single chick with a dalmatian, they'd just bring me back and keep my dog. But it is nice to be rid of his controlling ***. So I shall sleuth on....:rocker:

BBM & sorry for off topic but my beau, too, hates that I am on this site & that I read these types of stories, so I wait until he is asleep to come to WS. I no longer watch Nancy Grace or HLN & have stopped searching out these stories. It's been getting to me mentally.

I haven't been reading Lisa threads because they are so confusing & full of rumors/misleading info . . . but thanks for being here, all you WSers, and doing what we can to help.

neese
11-06-2011, 12:27 AM
Well, I would tend to agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that I can't see DB sitting there all night while her friend drank and she didn't. But, I suppose it's possible. I don't believe much of anything she says, so you could be right!

I agree with you. For some reason, the one thing that I feel totally sure about is that DB was, tore down, drunk. But that's just my speculation. But in another thread, i had posted that I could come up with some much better excuses as to why I left my infant and children to fend for themselves, by just saying I was dead darn sick or something other than drunk out of my mind. It just seems that any lawyer would tell her that if she admits to being slam blasted drunk, then she'll be tried and hung in the media unless she retains JB. I would rather say, I actually had my kids all asleep and went to walk over to the neighbors and had some kind of crazy seizure and woke up in the driveway four hours later. I mean, anything other than blacked out drunk to make herself seem unfit and possibly risk having the other two kids removed. I just don't get that theory of "let's pretend you were drunk". I think she really had to be drunk to announce that to the world. Or just dumb. JMO.

AngelWings444
11-06-2011, 12:35 AM
I believe in EVIDENCE. That's all.

And the thread is not about what any individuals believe to be the truth, but on what IS the truth, backed up by facts. There is a theory thread for opinions. :seeya:

"What is truth?" Like I said before, there are very few TRUTHS I believe, one is Lisa is missing, two is there was a "hit" in the room, three is the parents are not being interviewed nor will they allow the children to be re-interviewed. This is not an opinion, but the truth, based on facts from LE/FBI.

I refuse to believe these parents. I may be incredibly wrong and I will gladly apologize, but I DO NOT believe a word they or their defense team says. It's not a theory, it's not an opinion, it is based on facts and their actions, or lack thereof.

I value your opinion, thoughts and enjoy a great discussion. I was merely trying to point out, what I perceive as factual, in this case. It isn't much, but that's all we got right now.

Praying LE/FBI has much more than any single one of us. Praying for justice for Lisa.

neese
11-06-2011, 12:36 AM
And that's my cue to exit stage left....

:seeya:

Awe don't leave Mel. This is my very first thread I ever started. Just consider it as debating. It's good to be able to bounce things off of each other...I think....right?? Or is there something I haven't been told. None of you have ever tracked each other down personally when opinions differ, have you?? If not....then I love debating and reading here. After all, it's all for sweet, precious, Lisa. :innocent:

neese
11-06-2011, 12:54 AM
Welp, I guess everyone got heated up and left my thread. Ok, well, that makes it easier for me to read this thread if I'm the only one posting, LOL.

Here's a truth for me, although an opinion for most. When I see DB in interviews, to me, she seems very very sad/remorseful, real tears, but I also see major guilt.

But I can't for the life of me decipher if the guilt I see in her body language is because she is responsible for doing something bad to Lisa, or is it because she believes if she had not have been drunk, then this may not have happened at all. (IF she was drunk, I must add.)

:rollercoaster::rollercoaster::rollercoaster:

ETA: Thanx:boohoo:

neese
11-06-2011, 01:09 AM
Woohoo...I thought of another fact. And at least this thread is not confusing me, HaHa!!!

FACT:

I am an avid cat/dog/animal lover. I love my animals more than I like most people, HOWEVER, JI didn't kick the dang cat. It's called (SCOOT). He merely scooted it out of the way so it couldn't go in the door and I betchya that every person walking in that door has to do the same thing. Lord's sake, a cat can jump off a house. A step or two down to the ground is just playfulness to a cat. Let's keep it real. I think I've seen more posts about the JI drop kicking (exaggeration) the cat, than I have about Lisa. Or maybe Jersey and the Jigaloo, whatever ya'll call her, may be getting the most coverage. Have a blessed Sunday everyone. :slap:

neese
11-06-2011, 01:11 AM
Thanx again Neese lololololololol. Just gettin' plain silly now. Time to lighten up the mood. Eh, maybe after LI is found and justice is done.

Seth
11-06-2011, 01:11 AM
The police did finally take the dumpster that had a fire in it. That is a fact, sorry I can find the link. Hopefully it will lead to further clue's to finding baby lisa.

SmoothOperator
11-06-2011, 01:12 AM
http://websleuths.com/forums/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=463

Thought maybe this thread would be easier for us to view for the things we know for sure is a lie, or a truth, or a fact or just plain wrong, in order to put some of the contradictions to rest and help us sleuthers to not bang our head against the wall. :banghead:

Ok, regarding the lights being reported as off by the neighbor, then watching this video (link above) at the 7:24 mark, JI mentions...pumpkin light was on????? Are you kidding me? Really? So the phone napper/kid napper also took the time to plug in the pumpkin light in the computer room?

My best guess on this is "neighbor is plain wrong, or lying" DB never turned the lights off. For what reason, I don't know. Actually drunk, or staging the scene.

So for this post, I guess I would label it as "plain wrong, or too drunk to know."

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to even start a thread so feel free to delete it...mods!! :innocent: Not a problem..:crazy:

ETA: If stating a fact: Don't forget to link it..

Great Thread Topic and would be so very beneficial if we truly were able to correctly whittle down what's fact and seperate from whats lies or rumors.. Thanks for starting up the thread, Neese..

Above BBM.. In having previously discussed the "pumpkin accent light" I brought forward part of that discussion(below) and my opinions and thoughts regarding this "accent light" are detailed in the post below.. At this time my thoughts remain the same and tht IMO quite likely it may even be something similar to these reasons and or explanations re:"pumpkin accent light" and it's having remained "ON"..

The post below is brought forward from: Thread#4 LE serves Search Warrant on family home<post #385>
Originally Posted by SmoothOperator
IMOO I agree that an intruder wouldn't be likely to turn on a decorative "pumpkin accent light".. IMOO a woman who'd had wine and was tipsy or smashed drunk would NOT THINK to have ever turned OFF a "pumpkin accent light"..

If it's anything like/similar to one I have that I used to put in my sons room when he was younger there's a reason it's dubbed an "accent light" because it is not bright but more illuminates a degree of light similar to that of a night light(but it is NOT a
Nightlight)..

Not only do I think she'd easily leave it on.. But even with it staying on it would still appear as tho all the lights were turned off(they likely were IMO just as the neighbor says).. It's not as tho she went over to the Irwin home and walked the perimeter closely looking at each window of each room to be certain each room was pitch black.. She saw the lights go off.. IMO a "pumpkin accent light" being STILL ON would not in anyway negate or make that statement incorrect or invalid..

RANCH
11-06-2011, 01:14 AM
Thanx again Neese lololololololol. Just gettin' plain silly now. Time to lighten up the mood. Eh, maybe after LI is found and justice is done.

Neese. You can go to other threads and post if you care to.

neese
11-06-2011, 01:24 AM
The police did finally take the dumpster that had a fire in it. That is a fact, sorry I can find the link. Hopefully it will lead to further clue's to finding baby lisa.

Seth you are right. Another fact, thank goodness. I actually saw it on HLN. It was the announcer that is ex-LE. He said he worked for LE here in Virginia and that dumpster fires happen frequently, but for them to just take the entire dumpster is very unusual. He said normally, they just put the fire out and forget it. But they did take this particular dumpster. Thank you. Wish I had a link.

neese
11-06-2011, 01:28 AM
Neese. You can go to other threads and post if you care to.

Thank you Ranch. I was getting a bit bored of myself :crazy:

neese
11-06-2011, 01:33 AM
Great Thread Topic and would be so very beneficial if we truly were able to correctly whittle down what's fact and seperate from whats lies or rumors.. Thanks for starting up the thread, Neese..

Above BBM.. In having previously discussed the "pumpkin accent light" I brought forward part of that discussion(below) and my opinions and thoughts regarding this "accent light" are detailed in the post below.. At this time my thoughts remain the same and tht IMO quite likely it may even be something similar to these reasons and or explanations re:"pumpkin accent light" and it's having remained "ON"..

The post below is brought forward from: Thread#4 LE serves Search Warrant on family home<post #385>

Thank you for thanking me :) When I posted that about the pumpkin light, I was actually thinking the same thing, DB probably just didn't unplug it. But when she didn't negate it when JI brought it up, I thought well geez, she didn't speak up so are they saying the we should believe the kidnapper cut it on. But honestly, I lean toward, she left all the lights on, probably stumbling into bed. I can't imagine someone coming in to steal anything and cutting all the lights on themselves. How would the intruder not know that a neighbor may be looking right at the house and seeing the lights come on, etc. etc. It's just all crazy, crazy, crazy. JMO

Madeleine74
11-06-2011, 01:44 AM
Because a cadaver dog got (at least one) hit in the DB house, next to the bed, I'm treating that as a fact and the logical inference is that it was Baby Lisa and she is deceased.

If Baby Lisa died in the house, then she is not "missing." One or both parents would either know where she is or know who would know where she is.

Whether this case is matricide, accident or whatever else there is remains to be seen, but at this point, from all indications, it is a case about a deceased baby, how she died, where her body is now, and then who or what was responsible for her death.

I said early on that this case reminds me of the Madeleine McCann case and it does just as much. The flurry of activity around the parents and from the posse of folks connected to the parents, shows me that's where the 'smoke' is. Smoke is to obfuscate, not determine truth.

Wendy101
11-06-2011, 01:00 AM
FACT:

#1. Lisa is missing.
#2. Lisa is Debrahs child.

Madeleine74
11-06-2011, 01:10 AM
Hmmm...

FACT

1. Lisa's parents claim Lisa is "missing."
2. Lisa's biological parents are DB and JI

beach
11-06-2011, 01:11 AM
We have parallel threads running. Closing this one.

Here is "Just the facts, ma'am"