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View Full Version : Man rapes daughter, daughter kills self later that day



blueclouds
10-15-2003, 03:37 PM
sszzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz sounds of frying this man over hot coals... but that's too good for him...
Prosecution stated:
'Our evidence indicates this was just one incident, that there was an assault and then for whatever reason in this poor little girl's head, she felt it appropriate to end her life,"

For whatever reason? Does her father have to sodomize & rape her repeatedly for this to have a devastating affect? What a sick comment. :sick: :sick:


http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20031015_1232.html

Casshew
10-15-2003, 04:00 PM
Hard to believe he has not touched her until now (or the other 4 kids) or anyone else... the Father from Hell, poor girl :(

Cass...

Juliana
10-15-2003, 04:18 PM
Blueclouds, that statement by the prosecutor does sound very cavalier. I would think that just about any girl who had been touched inappropriately by her father, let alone raped, would feel that way. I hope that young girls are a little more enlightened these days to realize that it is not their fault when something like this happens. I hate to think of the torment that poor girl suffered at the hands of the one man who she should have been able to trust completely.

alpharee
10-15-2003, 05:46 PM
I think they should charge her father with MURDER.

Toth
10-15-2003, 06:04 PM
The suicide is an intervening cause of death and would not support a murder charge due to intervening time and unforeseeability.

I do not know what forensic evidence there is, perhaps dna testing will let us know what happened. I think it is unlikely that he would have confessed to such a shameful act if it were not true, but it also seems unlikely that such a miserable excuse for a man would feel any shame that would induce him to confess. He may indeed have been threatened with the loss of his other children and been foolish enough to have confessed falsely. I don't know.
It seems a shame that an 11 year old girl takes her own life, particularly for such a reason.
I just hope they find some proof one way or the other.
Once he gets to prison,,, they will do more than cut his hair!!

susie77301
10-15-2003, 06:44 PM
:confused: This man should be held accountable for her suicide.
A second charge of murder or at least accessory to murder!

The mother (Judith Scruggs ) has been held accountable for her 12 year old son's suicide. Because she did nothing to get him physiological counseling. She said he was being bullied at school and was afraid to go. Other things were also involved. I think the father of that poor girl is much more to blame


Susie from Texas I am still under construction , please be patient..:dance:

Amraann
10-15-2003, 06:50 PM
Scumbag.
Makes me feel sick to my stomache.

He should rott and suffer in places unamed.
Any DA worth his paycheck would find a way to make him serve life w/out parole and make sure that every inmate in hearing distance knows why he is there.
They have their own special way of dealing with men like him.
Ya know.. Some big boy named bubba may need to make him his *B*****
Lets find out who that is and send him money.

blueclouds
10-15-2003, 07:20 PM
susie77301

I agree wholeheartedly... if a mom can be charged & jailed for not doing enough to prevent suicide THEN THIS MONSTER SHOULD BE CHARGED, JAILED & ()e*(&*^&%(^ FOR CAUSING THE SUICIDE.

BURN YOU SUCKING SLIMY CREEP.:evil: IS WHAT EVIL DOES.

BeeBee
10-15-2003, 07:30 PM
It's my thought that even if police had told him he failed a lie detector test, they still didn't know what he had done, if actually anything. So, if he said he did such a thing to her, then I'm sure that's what he did. Making up a story so detailed about cutting her hair if she didn't comply doesn't sound plausible. This story he told was no doubt a true one. Now, with his lawyers advise, he's claiming he was pressured. Bull. The man did exactly what he said he did and probably even left some things out.

If this was the first time that this was ever done to her, she probably felt overwhelming guilt, extreme physical pain from being raped and sodomized, and the thought of this happening again was more than she could bear. And, where was the mother? Has anything been said about her?

There might have been a note if the father found her. But, it wouldn't last long, would it?

Amraann
10-15-2003, 07:52 PM
As a child I was forbidden to cut my hair....
When I was in 3rd grade my mother ( who was a hairdresser) finally agreed (I think cause she was mad at him) to cut my hair to my waist. Till then it was to my knees.
It atually took my father at least a month to even notice it was cut.
There is a serious emotional abuse going on whne you threten such a thibg to a young girl.
THe bastard shouls not fry.... He should suffer the jury of his peers. ( I meAN INMATES JAILED WITH HIM)
Let other criminasls decide his fate..
I know from experience that judges don't serve justice, bu inmates do..... Maybe that in itself serves a purpose?

susie77301
10-15-2003, 07:54 PM
I hope the LE will notify the prison he is going to be put about his crime and that his little daughter killed herself because he made her feel so ashamed. Maybe Buba and his friends can explain to him how he made that little girl feel. I doubt it because he is a big A----Hole and it won't bother him in the least.


It makes you wonder about demon possessionThe man just all of a sudden got an over powering urge to do this horrible thing to her!
I would not fall for that though if I was on the jury. I would hope for a speedy trial so I would not have to look at him for very long.



Susie from Texas I am still under construction please be patient.:dontknow:

Old Broad
10-16-2003, 04:03 AM
This little girl had to have lost all hope.
Even if it was the first time she was raped, no telling what other kinds of abuse, both physical & emotional she has had to endure.
The children were home schooled, she very well could have felt there was no way to get away from him and could not endure another attack. I hope he lives a long life and suffers every day just like he made her suffer! The man who should protect and cherish her the most IS responsible for her death.

Toth
10-16-2003, 12:30 PM
Homeschoolers are often seen as a threat. He may have done nothing wrong and simply have been foolish in giving in to the police threats to confess. I don't know. I just don't think that girl who did not scream would later silently kill herself. Its possible, but I think there may be more here than we yet know about.

Ghostwheel
10-16-2003, 02:39 PM
"From Toth-I just don't think that girl who did not scream would later silently kill herself"

I rather think this is exactly the kind of girl who would kill herself. One who would scream and fight back, would not give up life so easily either. One who silently takes it would have both the emotional scars from the act, PLUS the (mis-placed) guilt from not doing anything about it. Internalize it enough, and it will eat you alive, and she probably decided better to be dead than live with what she felt.

I agree that if a mother who didn't get psychological help for her son can be charged with anything for his suicide, this guy ought to get something.

Toth
10-16-2003, 04:09 PM
You could well be right. I think the only thing we know now is that we sure need further data on this one. Police interrogations and threats to take children away have indeed produced false confessions in the past. "First Time" heinous crimes have indeed prompted serious repercussions in the past also.

Bailey1
10-16-2003, 06:43 PM
Where does it say she didn't scream? Did I miss something. She could have screamed like hell but that doesn't mean anyone heard or he could have muffled her.

I DONT BELIEVE FOR ONE SECOND this guy had not touched her prior. He is a beast. He definitley should be tried for torture, ravage of an innocent child and MURDER.

susie77301
10-16-2003, 07:11 PM
I can see what Toth is saying. If there was no previous attacks on
the little girl, maybe the LE coerced a confession out of the father. But don't you think there is evidence of such a brutal attack on her!!! If it was not him then it must have been someone with opportunity to have done so. The LE would know if
anyone else was there that could have done it. If the father knows of someone else you know he would be yelling for revenge as well as the injustice of having him locked up for such a heinous crime!!!



Susie from Texas I am still under construction please be patient.:dontknow:

AutumnBorn
10-16-2003, 11:10 PM
Raping your daughter for not doing what she was told? Whatever happened to swatting her bum or sending her to her room?

That man should get life. Or death. He killed his daughter. Even if she had lived, the girl she had been was dead.

Bailey1
10-17-2003, 11:14 AM
Autum...what does taking a SHOWER have to do with not doing what she was told? This man is evil.

Suzie, come on. This man talked about threatening to cut her hair IF she didn't do what HE WANTED...where is tha cohercing. She was raped and sodomized...IN HIS OWN HOUSE. This man is a PIG! He deserves to be hung from his testacles, stripped and skinned alive and THAT still is not even close to what he did to that precious CHILD. She was all of 11.

Where could this child go after that brutal act. I can see her not being able to walk, use the restroom,,,everything hurting.

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE THAT CAN DO THIS TO A CHILD!

mindys
10-17-2003, 11:27 AM
The physical pain she must have endured is beyond what we can imagine. My Mother worked in an emergency room at a pediatric hospital, she saw children this age and younger, even babies, who had been raped and sodemized. The physical damage is EXTENSIVE. The emotional damage is EXTENSIVE.

I read he made bail, two houses were put up, his and an elderly couple from their church. I can not believe he can walk the streets. This girl simply must get JUSTICE!!

AutumnBorn
10-17-2003, 09:29 PM
WTH? Some elderly couple put their house on the line for a baby raping swine? I'd do it, too, but only because it would give me the opportunity to go after him with a filet knife.

Just kidding. I'm very gentle, as a rule, but as the mother of a sweet, innocent 10 year old girl, I'd like to see him dead.

AutumnBorn
10-17-2003, 09:34 PM
A confession isn't strong enough evidence? Sperm, bruising, none of that strong enough evidence?

"Prosecutors opposed bail but City Judge Langston McKinney said he did not believe that the evidence was strong enough to deny bail."

http://www.10nbc.com/index.asp?template=item&story_id=9146

susie77301
10-20-2003, 10:42 PM
Originally posted by Bailey1
Autum...what does taking a SHOWER have to do with not doing what she was told? This man is evil.

Suzie, come on. This man talked about threatening to cut her hair IF she didn't do what HE WANTED...where is tha cohercing. She was raped and sodomized...IN HIS OWN HOUSE. This man is a PIG! He deserves to be hung from his testacles, stripped and skinned alive and THAT still is not even close to what he did to that precious CHILD. She was all of 11.

Where could this child go after that brutal act. I can see her not being able to walk, use the restroom,,,everything hurting.

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE THAT CAN DO THIS TO A CHILD!


I am a new poster here. I was trying to be diplomatic to TOTH. I was showing in a nice way the father had to be the one to have done it. Toth talked as if there should be LE looking into weather he was pressured into a confession. I was saying nicely there was not another possible person that could have done it.

I agree there is no humanly reason in the world for this man to have done this to that little girl. She is an innocent. Her father made her a victim and probably convinced her she was vile. He is a vile thing.I must be a monster myself because I think what you said should be done is to good of a treatment .

I WOULD NOT WANT TO BE TAKEN AS A SYMPATHIZER OF SUCH A THING. I won't even call him an animal . I believe animals are innocent beings themselves. They have a different set of rules and have no right or wrong as we see it.I have a cute little mini poodle and he is sweet even if his name is Bruiser.

I too wonder about this kind of thing happening. Is there more information in our world now and it has always happened. Or is this kind of thing with children a new epidemic of our world now.

How can someone look at themselves live with themselves. Let alone plan on more!!!!

Susie from Texas I'm still under construction, please be patient:dontknow:

Brefie
10-22-2003, 09:50 PM
Just shoot him in the head.
No trial, no nothing.

Shoot him in the head and forget about him.

The money that is usually spent keeping bastards like this alive should be put into counseling for other children who have been put through this and other children's organizations.

blueclouds
10-22-2003, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Brefie
Just shoot him in the head.
No trial, no nothing.

Shoot him in the head and forget about him.

The money that is usually spent keeping bastards like this alive should be put into counseling for other children who have been put through this and other children's organizations.


Brefie, right on. Thats my thought. Why do we waste money on some criminals?!!!!!!! The pendulum has swung tooooooo far the other way and I believe we have become wayyyyyy to civilized when it comes to inhuman people doing inhumane things to others.

In some countries, if you steal once, once your hand is chopped off. So, if you molest once, your dick cut off, twice, your head.

BirdieBoo
10-27-2003, 08:13 PM
For all we know, he may have killed her too. It said she apparently killed herself, and left no note.

feebee
07-05-2006, 01:07 AM
This is the most disgusting thing which can happen to someone. I hope that more strict laws are implemented towards rapists, and incest rapists!!

GlitchWizard
07-05-2006, 08:45 AM
I can't get the link to work for the article, just going on comments. How did the girl commit suicide? I've known adults that couldn't get it right - it's not fathomable to me that she killed herself. Again, I didn't read the article. Is it possible she had... help?

SieSie
07-05-2006, 09:11 AM
I can't get the link to work for the article, just going on comments. How did the girl commit suicide? I've known adults that couldn't get it right - it's not fathomable to me that she killed herself. Again, I didn't read the article. Is it possible she had... help?
This thread was started in October of 2003, so I doubt any of the links will work. Not sure why it was bumped up since there doesn't appear to be any new information about this.

Old Broad
07-05-2006, 09:26 AM
http://www.10nbc.com/index.asp?template=item&story_id=9146

The second link does still work, here is a snippet from it.

SYRACUSE, N.Y. (AP) - An 11-year-old girl who apparently hanged herself in her bedroom was raped by her father earlier in the day, police said. Valerie Charlene Lucie, a former resident of North Chili, was found dead on Sept. 30. Timothy Lucie was arraigned Tuesday on felony charges of rape and sodomy that could bring him up to 25 years to life in prison, if convicted.

"It's a case that leaves you numb," Syracuse police Sgt. Tom Connellan said Wednesday.

No charges have been filed in connection with the girl's death. Prosecutors will present the case Thursday to a grand jury, which could consider more serious charges against Timothy Lucie, said Onondaga County Chief Assistant District Attorney Rick Trunfio.

Lucie, 46, was released from jail Wednesday on $35,000 bond. Prosecutors opposed bail but City Judge Langston McKinney said he did not believe that the evidence was strong enough to deny bail.

Defense lawyer Raymond Dague called the charges "baseless."

"I feel for these people," he said. "This is a good family. They went through hell losing their daughter, and now that's compounded by these false allegations against the dad."

"This is so out of the blue," added Dague. "He has no criminal record whatsoever and he has done nothing his entire life that would suggest he could do something like this." Dague said Lucie had voluntarily provided a sample of his DNA. Neither police nor prosecutors would comment about DNA evidence.

According to court documents, Timothy Lucie came under suspicion after an autopsy by Medical Examiner Dr. Mary Jumbelic revealed physical signs that Valerie had been sexually abused before her death. Although police called it an apparent suicide, her death has not officially been classified.

The girl did not leave a suicide note and the condition of her bedroom looked like that of a happy, healthy young girl, inconsistent with someone who commits suicide, Connellan said.

More at link.
Old Broad

Old Broad
07-05-2006, 09:31 AM
Here is a link on things that have happened since then. The man is pure scum!!

http://www.syracuse.com/weblogs/print.ssf?/mtlogs/syr_poststandard/archives/print030727.html

Judge Martha Walsh Hood found the Luciesí deceased 11-year-old daughter, Valerie, had been abused and neglected by her fatherís conduct in sexually assaulting her and by her motherís omissions as a parent. The judge also found the coupleís four younger sons were abused and neglected by the parents as a result of the abuse and neglect of their older sister.
Walsh Hood made the findings after the lawyers for the Lucies worked out an agreement with Senior Deputy County Attorney Joanna Gozzi to agree to the facts to be presented to the judge.
Timothy Lucie, 46, was convicted in May of first-degree rape, first-degree sodomy and endangering the welfare of a child charges in the Sept. 30 sexual assault on his daughter in the bathroom of their home on East Genesee Street in Syracuse. The girl was found dead later that same day, hanging from the post of her bed in what the prosecution and police determined was a suicide. Lucie was sentenced in June to the maximum penalty of 50 years in state prison.

More at link. I would imagine since he's been sentenced that he's come to know Bubba quite well!! :)

Old Broad