PDA

View Full Version : Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #3



Pages : [1] 2 3

wfgodot
11-16-2011, 11:22 AM
Please continue discussion here on the Penn State / Sandusky / Second Mile case.

Links of interest:

Thread #1

Thread #2


Case timeline (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/09/penn-state-scandal-timeline-jerry-sandusky_n_1084204.html) (huffingtonpost.com)

Grand jury presentment (http://www.wgal.com/pdf/29737452/detail.html) (.pdf)

Who knew what about Jerry Sandusky? There were many missed chances to investigate as early as 1995 (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/who_knew_what_about_jerry_sand.html) (pennlive.com)

Also of interest: the case involving the disappearance
of former Centre County DA Ray Gricar is here:

PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

wfgodot
11-16-2011, 11:37 AM
Past And Present Board Members Of Sandusky’s Charity Gave $201,783.64 To Gov. Corbett’s 2010 Campaign (http://deadspin.com/5859802/past-and-present-board-members-of-the-second-mile-gave-a-combined-20178364-to-gov-corbetts-2010-campaign?tag=pennstatescandal) (Deadspin)

Concerned Papa
11-16-2011, 11:53 AM
There's those two words again:


The hate mail sent to black students had nothing to do with Sandusky’s proclivities, but the two incidences shared something in common: both were ultimately covered up by the university.

Penn State and Joe Paterno were not willing to allow bad publicity to ruin the university’s image

Concerned black students met with Paterno back in 2001.....Wolf recalls Paterno as almost emotionless

Ultimately, a black man’s dead body was found by police near Penn State as one of the death threats said it would. And some black students had to attend their graduation the following May with bulletproof vests on in fear of their life.

http://newsone.com/nation/theloop21/penn-state-scandal-threats-black-students/

Paterno emotionless....bulletproof vests....That's stone cold, JoePa.

MagnoliaMom
11-16-2011, 12:21 PM
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/16/penn-state-names-david-joyner-acting-athletic-director/


The school announced in a press release that David Joyner has been named acting athletic director. With the naming of Joyner, Sherburne will now will resume his old position of associate AD.

Joyner, a Penn State graduate and former football player for Paterno, has been a member of the university’s Board of Trustees since 2000. He will suspend that membership, the release states, as he takes over the athletic department, presumably until either Curley returns or a full-time replacement is found.

concentric
11-16-2011, 12:45 PM
I wanted to comment on part of ThoughtFox's post in Thread #2, about the Dr. Drew program. Below is the portion where I bolded the part I wanted to post about:


The psychiatrist on the show said she believed Sandusky was enough of a narcissist that he believes he can control the message, when really he is giving out too much information.
------------

Why is it considered giving out too much information, instead of giving out information? Giving out "too much" information to me implies that the psychiatrist thought that perhaps he should have shut up, and protected himself legally. Whereas, giving out information, would imply that the psychiatrist felt he was letting his true nature out.

Anyone have anything else to say about this: giving out too much information

Emeralgem
11-16-2011, 12:46 PM
There's those two words again:


Seems NOW Penn State is making every effort to cover up the cover up..JMHO

waltzingmatilda
11-16-2011, 12:51 PM
Good heavens!!! Is there any way to find out the race and socioeconomic status of the children served at second mile? I was reading on scout.com and there was alot of speculation that the victims were most likely AA. Then there was an article where a former player ? stated that (paraphrased) "I never saw Sandusky with athletic looking kids, I saw him with kids who appeared to be vulnerable."

Are any of JS's adopted children AA? How many of the S family's foster children were AA?

I can't help but wonder if the victim found dead in the following link was a second mile victim.

http://loop21.com/content/other-penn-state-cover-death-threats-against-black-students

My apologies in advance if anyone is offended by my speculative post as I realize racial issues are a sensitive subject. However, we are already discussing the most sensitive of subjects, child rape, and my questions are mounting about JS with each news article that I read.

I taught at risk and inner city children for years in the public school system and there was nothing that made the boys happier than when I allowed them a football and free play during recess!

Someone questioned on the last thread if JS had a 'type'. IMO, JS's type is the most vulnerable, most economically disadvantaged, children to prey upon.

MOO

wm

concentric
11-16-2011, 01:03 PM
Good heavens!!! Is there any way to find out the race and socioeconomic status of the children served at second mile? I was reading on scout.com and there was alot of speculation that the victims were most likely AA. Then there was an article where a former player ? stated that (paraphrased) "I never saw Sandusky with athletic looking kids, I saw him with kids who appeared to be vulnerable."

Are any of JS's adopted children AA? How many of the S family's foster children were AA?

I can't help but wonder if the victim found dead in the following link was a second mile victim.

http://loop21.com/content/other-penn-state-cover-death-threats-against-black-students


----------
I wondered that myself--what was his "type" of prey? There's a photograph in either Thread #1 or Thread #2, that shows some of the children in the Second Mile program. There appeared to be a group of children from varying racial/ethnic backgrounds.

I wonder what the ethnic/racial background was for the children Sandusky brought with him to the games, overnight stays, home visits, etc.?

ScorpRising
11-16-2011, 01:06 PM
Past And Present Board Members Of Sandusky’s Charity Gave $201,783.64 To Gov. Corbett’s 2010 Campaign (http://deadspin.com/5859802/past-and-present-board-members-of-the-second-mile-gave-a-combined-20178364-to-gov-corbetts-2010-campaign?tag=pennstatescandal) (Deadspin)

Hmmmm.... Interesting to see it in print.

Can anyone grab a link to the story where 2nd mile got funding for new facitilies in State College? Where'd that funding come from. I don't remember.

ScorpRising
11-16-2011, 01:08 PM
----------
I wondered that myself--what was his "type" of prey? There's a photograph in either Thread #1 or Thread #2, that shows some of the children in the Second Mile program. There appeared to be a group of children from varying racial/ethnic backgrounds.

I wonder what the ethnic/racial background was for the children Sandusky brought with him to the games, overnight stays, home visits, etc.?

BBM

I remember hearing it but don't have a link to back it up. Today work is getting in the way of sleuthing.

MagnoliaMom
11-16-2011, 01:11 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/jerry-sandusky-interview-angers-mother-victim/story?id=14961765


The mother of the boy identified as Victim 1 in the Penn State sex abuse scandal said her son broke down in tears when he heard accused child molester Jerry Sandusky claim on television they were just "horsing around."


The mother said she's angry to see Sandusky a free man while she and her son, who is now a teenager, feel they must hide to protect their anonymity.

Sandusky can not give these victims back what he took away, their trust and innocence. He could step up and be a man for the first time in his life and affirm the truth.

ecco
11-16-2011, 01:27 PM
About the race of the victims. I think someone said in the first thread (or maybe the second?) that all the victims who've come forward are slim and African American but they didn't say where they got their info from or anything else about it.

Gin
11-16-2011, 01:29 PM
I wanted to comment on part of ThoughtFox's post in Thread #2, about the Dr. Drew program. Below is the portion where I bolded the part I wanted to post about:


The psychiatrist on the show said she believed Sandusky was enough of a narcissist that he believes he can control the message, when really he is giving out too much information.
------------

Why is it considered giving out too much information, instead of giving out information? Giving out "too much" information to me implies that the psychiatrist thought that perhaps he should have shut up, and protected himself legally. Whereas, giving out information, would imply that the psychiatrist felt he was letting his true nature out.

Anyone have anything else to say about this: giving out too much information

I think the psychiatrist was saying that a narcissist would believe he was in total control of the message. He doesn't accurately interpret the consequences of letting out too much of his behavior, because he thinks whatever he does is A-OK. I don't think she was on his side legally, she just was observing behavior that is highly unusual...and very narcissistic.

Concerned Papa
11-16-2011, 01:39 PM
Hmmmm.... Interesting to see it in print.

Can anyone grab a link to the story where 2nd mile got funding for new facitilies in State College? Where'd that funding come from. I don't remember.

UT OH!!


Corbett Gave Second Mile $3 Million Grant

Public records show Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Corbett approved a $3 million optional taxpayer grant to the Second Mile, the charity founded by Jerry Sandusky.

It is part of matching funds for a proposed $9 million Second Mile building in State College, Pa.

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/sports/penn_state/corbett-gave-second-mile-$3-million-grant-111511

Oh well, so much for the new playpen:


State freezes $3 million grant to Second Mile (11-15-2011)

The state has put a freeze on the $3 million grant The Second Mile was slated to get for its new State College learning center, the future of which seems uncertain. The nonprofit, founded by former PSU football coach Jerry Sandusky, had planned to build the 45,000-square-foot facility on a site near University Park Airport.

http://www.wkva920.com/news.php

Good Catch!

"Where'd that funding come from? I don't remember....." Riggghhtttt :rocker:

MagnoliaMom
11-16-2011, 01:42 PM
I can't help but wonder if the victim found dead in the following link was a second mile victim.

http://loop21.com/content/other-penn-state-cover-death-threats-against-black-students

I think it needs to be looked at. While it may not have been a victim, it could have been a witness, a threat to keep the silence, a relative to a victim, or totally unrelated. It needs to be looked at.

I don't know how to link the document I found but you can google "[Abbreviated] History of Hate at Penn State" and find it. It is an interesting read.


In addition, Donald Conner, a Black State College resident’s body was found near the University Park campus just days after former Black Caucus President LaKeisha Wolf received a letter claiming responsibility for the murder of a black man whose body could be found in the region.

ThoughtFox
11-16-2011, 01:44 PM
I wanted to comment on part of ThoughtFox's post in Thread #2, about the Dr. Drew program. Below is the portion where I bolded the part I wanted to post about:


The psychiatrist on the show said she believed Sandusky was enough of a narcissist that he believes he can control the message, when really he is giving out too much information.
------------

Why is it considered giving out too much information, instead of giving out information? Giving out "too much" information to me implies that the psychiatrist thought that perhaps he should have shut up, and protected himself legally. Whereas, giving out information, would imply that the psychiatrist felt he was letting his true nature out.

Anyone have anything else to say about this: giving out too much information

I didn't phrase my post correctly because I was tired, I guess.

Dr. Drew was the one who kept saying Sandusky shouldn't be talking on TV and his lawyer should make him shut up.

He also worried that Sandusky might kill himself because now he has made himself look even more guilty as he waffled and almost couldn't deny his sexual attraction to boys in the Costas interview.

The psychiatrist on the show said she thought Sandusky was too much of a Narcissist to kill himself, which is also why he keeps talking in an effort to control the situation.

But I think both Dr. Drew and the psychiatrist agreed that Sandusky was talking because he really doesn't know what is normal or acceptable, and thinks he can talk his way out of this.

ThoughtFox
11-16-2011, 01:51 PM
Dr. Drew transcript, November 15
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1111/15/ddhln.01.html

PINSKY: First of all, I don`t know why his attorney let him have that interview.

(snip)

PINSKY: There`s also a peculiar quality of what the interview that Bob was asking very hard questions. I mean, I personally wouldn`t ask those questions. And I would be afraid the guy would kill himself if I exposed - I`m fearful for this guy`s well-being, Sandusky, right now, frankly.

(snip)

PINSKY: Michelle, hold on a second. There`s one other thing, though, he`s also - whenever Bob Costas asks him how he feels, his response is, "Well, how do you think I feel?" It`s not how he feels. You see he`s avoiding because he doesn`t feel anything maybe or he only feels the way people, you know, real sociopaths will only put out what they think other people want.

GOLLAND: Well, that`s what he is. And I have to say, I don`t know if he`s going to kill himself. Because there may be enough narcissism in him that, you know, narcissist don`t like to kill themselves, they just want to prove themselves right.

PINSKY: Except - except when their narcissistic shield is truly ruptured.

MagnoliaMom
11-16-2011, 01:56 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/943050-penn-state-scandal-bowl-games-are-going-to-blacklist-the-lions-this-postseason


Any other year, bowl sites would kill to have the Nittany Lions play for them, but many may shy away this season.


As you can see, the domino effect is starting to take place as the student-athletes did nothing wrong. There are 16 seniors on this team that may not be given the opportunity to play in a bowl game because of something somebody else did.


The right thing for Penn State to do is just refuse to accept a bowl invitation and begin to work on the healing process. Clean house with the coaching staff, begin recruiting and find a new head coach to replace Joe Paterno. Although this is highly unlikely because Tom Bradley already said they are going to play a bowl game this season.

They have the pox! Nobody wants it to rub off on them.

LRinCA
11-16-2011, 02:00 PM
Good morning. :)


From thread #2

Thoughtfox:

"Horsing Around" is one of the most juvenile excuses for bullying.

I didn't mention this yesterday because I thought it might be too picayune but in the light of (a new) morning I decided to throw it into the mix.

Yesterday, after hearing the words "horsing around" tossed around all day long in the news, I decided to look up the etymology of the phrase "horse around." As would be expected, most of the entries were in keeping with what Sandusky, his attorney, Paterno and (apparently) Schultz and Curley were trying to portray: to be active in a silly way (thefreedictionary.com); however, there is a darker meaning to the expression, as indicated in the book Watch your language! Mother Tongue and her Wayward Children (Robert M. Gorrell).

From page 35: "To horse around often has sexual implications." http://books.google.com/books?id=dqyqialyUyMC&pg=PA35&lpg=PA35&dq=horse+around+%22watch+your+language%22&source=bl&ots=uZ5Agcw7oz&sig=d2WwCn7RHpg_O1KLDlfAB5LIEMI&hl=en&ei=cOnDTrzAE6WoiAK2y_TKCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Also, from another site (see link below). There are four definitions/citations and the first three are sexual in nature.

http://www.definition-of.com/horse%20around

One reason I decided to bring this up today was based on what Mike Krzyzewski was quoted as having said in the NY Times blog about Paterno:

"I think one thing you have to understand is that coach Paterno's 84 years old," Krzyzewski said, per Vin Bernstein of the New York Times. "I'm not saying that for an excuse or whatever. The cultures that he's been involved in both football - wise and socially, have been (seen?) immense changes and how social issues are handled in those generations are quite different. http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/14/krzyzewski-paterno-a-great-man-in-horrific-situation/

Based on the above I looked for the meaning of "horse around" using 1940s as one of the search terms. One entry that came up was Cassell's Dictionary of Slang (Google books). Note the use of time periods in the definitions:

http://books.google.com/books?id=5GpLcC4a5fAC&pg=PA741&lpg=PA741&dq=%22horse+around%22+1940s+sexual&source=bl&ots=2yfOR7emx4&sig=AdM5d02k0XCWe-EXdgjLobNnTdE&hl=en&ei=lezDTpXFFsWLiAKk9sWJDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEsQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=%22horse%20around%22%201940s%20sexual&f=false

I bring all this up for a couple of reasons. One being the use of doublespeak. I have wondered all along if this was Paterno's way of conveying an awful truth to Curley without coming out and using words such as sodomize, rape, molestation. If you look at the slang definition for the phrase throughout the years this becomes a distinct possibility (in my mind). Note: I am not excusing Paterno's actions in this matter on any level.

Additionally, I wonder if the use of doublespeak in Sandusky's case isn't part of a splitting process, i.e.:

It may be that child abusers, particularly those considered suitable for referral to a psychotherapy clinic, need to be seen to be leading normal lives in order to be in a position to carry out their acts, whether it be within the family or in social settings (for example as school-teachers, scoutmasters and so on). This may be facilitated by the extensive use of splitting — this is a mechanism whereby apparently contradictory attitudes can coexist. http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/179/6/482.full


I guess one reason this case has caught my attention to the extent that it has is because my father was a head football coach. In fact, he was a head football coach born in the same year as Joe Paterno - 1926. As such, I have found myself looking at this situation through two different lenses - the first being my own, based on the social mores of the generation I'm a part of - and the second being a blurrier lens based on my observations over the years of a parent who was born the same year as Paterno and who spent many years in the same occupation. I have a feeling that's what Krzyzewski was getting at with his commentary about generational differences. He's more than a decade older than I am (and in the coaching profession) so he is probably even more acutely aware of it than I am.

Again, none of that is an excuse for ignoring and/or sweeping such heinous acts under the blue and white rug of Penn State.

waltzingmatilda
11-16-2011, 02:02 PM
I think it needs to be looked at. While it may not have been a victim, it could have been a witness, a threat to keep the silence, a relative to a victim, or totally unrelated. It needs to be looked at.

I don't know how to link the document I found but you can google "[Abbreviated] History of Hate at Penn State" and find it. It is an interesting read.

I agree! If anyone is keeping a timeline, please include this info as it may or may not be relavent. It never hurts to document these events as they unfold. I'll add this link to the media thread.

wm

mahmoo
11-16-2011, 02:17 PM
Lawyer Says Alleged Sandusky Victim Will Testify to Severe Sexual Assault (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/sports/ncaafootball/lawyer-says-client-will-testify-to-severe-sexual-assault-in-sandusky-case.html)


Andreozzi said his client, now in his 20s, met Sandusky through Sandusky’s charity, the Second Mile. He said he had been around Sandusky for several years and was assaulted multiple times. Andreozzi has also advised other alleged victims in the case and said he was meeting with another potential victim this week.

Andreozzi said he talked with his client after he had listened to Sandusky’s televised telephone interview. “He was absolutely more ready to follow through with this afterward,” Andreozzi said. “He wants him to know he fully intends to testify he was severely sexually assaulted by Mr. Sandusky.”
bbm

peace9274
11-16-2011, 02:26 PM
I didn't phrase my post correctly because I was tired, I guess.

Dr. Drew was the one who kept saying Sandusky shouldn't be talking on TV and his lawyer should make him shut up.

He also worried that Sandusky might kill himself because now he has made himself look even more guilty as he waffled and almost couldn't deny his sexual attraction to boys in the Costas interview.

The psychiatrist on the show said she thought Sandusky was too much of a Narcissist to kill himself, which is also why he keeps talking in an effort to control the situation.

But I think both Dr. Drew and the psychiatrist agreed that Sandusky was talking because he really doesn't know what is normal or acceptable, and thinks he can talk his way out of this.

BBM

Good comments, ThoughtFox, and a perfect explanation of what you meant to say.

I was a psych nurse for 28 yrs (recently took an early retirement incentive pkge :) ).

Whenever we discussed narcissists & sociopaths, it was always mentioned how much they just aren't aware of what's "normal or acceptable behavior"...
especially exaggerated nice, happy-go-lucky, fun loving personalities they have... which, BTW, is why they are so charismatic and likable.

And why it is so easy to get caught up in the webs they spin. They really think everyone believes their outlandish tales & their lies.
And above all, as you mentioned, they really think that ethical & legal rules do not pertain to them! Thus, why they think they did nothing wrong!

And, of course, they are very hard to treat and rarely ever change. In fact, the only reason they are usually seen is they are court or family ordered to see a therapist.
But, they almost always get into a debate/argument with their therapist over "there's nothing wrong with me" or "I didn't do anything wrong" or their S/O's complaint,
that "he's driving me crazy" (passive/aggressiveness - AKA gaslighting). They rarely return to see the therapist after the initial visit.

:banghead:

concentric
11-16-2011, 02:36 PM
Penn State Scandal Emboldens Other Abuse Victims

http://www.npr.org/2011/11/16/142369663/penn-state-scandal-emboldens-other-abuse-victims

mahmoo
11-16-2011, 03:08 PM
Penn State "looking into" McQueary's assertion that he spoke to police in 2002 (http://www.centredaily.com/2011/11/16/2988537/penn-state-looking-into-mcquearys.html)
Centre Daily Times


Penn State spokeswoman Jill Shockey said university officials hadn't heard about the claims made by Mike McQueary in an e-mail obtained by The Associated Press Tuesday.

"We were not aware of any of these previous statements, and we are looking into them," Shockey said Wednesday morning.Mike McQueary's statement to police doesn't say he stopped attack, notified police about Sandusky allegations (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/mcquearys_statement_in_line_wi.html)
The Patriot-News

Penn State assistant football coach Mike McQueary never mentioned that he talked to police in 2002 after witnessing an alleged sexual assault by Jerry Sandusky of a young boy, according to a hand-written statement McQueary gave to police during the recent grand jury investigation.

The Patriot-News has viewed a copy of the statement and verified it through a source close to the investigation.

He does not mention stopping the assault, and does not mention talking to any police officers in the following days, the statement says. bbm

ThoughtFox
11-16-2011, 03:20 PM
BBM
Whenever we discussed narcissists & sociopaths, it was always mentioned how much they just aren't aware of what's "normal or acceptable behavior"...
especially exaggerated nice, happy-go-lucky, fun loving personalities they have... which, BTW, is why they are so charismatic and likable.

And why it is so easy to get caught up in the webs they spin. They really think everyone believes their outlandish tales & their lies.
And above all, as you mentioned, they really think that ethical & legal rules do not pertain to them! Thus, why they think they did nothing wrong!

I'm well acquainted because my father-in-law is a classic narcissist. OMG. For example, he is so clueless that he shot a hawk on his property and was so proud of his hunting skill that he called a taxidermist, who informed him that it was against the law to kill a raptor and that he ought to turn him into the federal wildlife officials (but he didn't). Another time he thought it was okay to light a big fire on his farm even though we were in the middle of a huge drought, and it surprised him when the fire marshall showed up. All that matters is what he wants to do at that moment. He leased his property but never made much money, however he led everyone to believe he was a millionaire three times over.

All of this may sound funny in a way, but I know the pain a Narcissist can cause because my husband and his mother and siblings suffered from this man. And he's almost a totally indifferent grandfather even while bragging about how he's going to help all his grandchildren. He can be light-hearted and sociable around strangers, but at home he is domineering, illogical, devious, cruel, and completely self-centered. My FIL can can only discuss things in light of how they affect him, him, him.

Camille
11-16-2011, 03:24 PM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/jerry-sandusky-interview-angers-mother-victim/story?id=14961765#.TsQLGFZH-8A


The mother said she's angry to see Sandusky a free man while she and her son, who is now a teenager, feel they must hide to protect their anonymity.

"It's very difficult for me and for my son. We spend most of our lives since this has started hiding, trying to avoid getting chased down by press, his identity being revealed, dealing with the bullies at school," she said.

"He has to leave school pretty consistently to take medication because he can't he just can't stay there and listen to it," she said.

"It makes me really mad that my son can't go out and have a normal life. He can't go out and hang out at the mall, because he might run into Jerry. [Sandusky] gets to go to the mall and shop and do whatever he wants to do. That aggravates me. He should be in jail," she said.

Victim 1 is expected to be a star witness against the former coach.

"He's scared, but he's anxious. He's ready, he wants to do it....He wants to put it to rest. He wants him to go to jail and he wants him to pay for what he's done. And he doesn't want him on the streets where he can hurt somebody else," the boy's mother said.


This breaks my heart. I wish there was some way to let that child know how incredibly strong and brave that he is. I look up to this little man and wish there were some way that I could help him get through this.

wfgodot
11-16-2011, 03:42 PM
Penn State interim football coach Tom Bradley was among those who testified in Sandusky case (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/bradley_was_among_those_who_te.html) (pennlive.com)

Tom Bradley, the interim Penn State head football coach following the firing of Joe Paterno, testified before the grand jury in the case against Jerry Sandusky.

A summary of Bradley’s testimony is not outlined in the 23-page grand jury presentment, but a source close to the investigation confirmed Bradley did appear and testified in over the summer.
---
Tuesday, in response to a The Patriot-News question, Bradley said that he did share a residence with assistant coach Mike McQueary around 2006 or 2007.
---
more at link above

nomoresorrow
11-16-2011, 03:47 PM
Penn State interim football coach Tom Bradley was among those who testified in Sandusky case (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/bradley_was_among_those_who_te.html) (pennlive.com)

more at link above

If this is true, was Bradley really the best choice for interim coach? I don't think so but it seems as though everyone connected to Penn State's football program knew something. Again, the secret everyone knew...

wfgodot
11-16-2011, 04:25 PM
Report: Jerry Sandusky's charity official raised money for district judge who set his bail (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/report_jerry_sanduskys_charity.html) (pennlive.com)


State College district judge Leslie Dutchcot, who set Jerry Sandusky's bail lower than what prosecutors asked for, benefited from a fundraiser organized by an official with The Second Mile, a children's charity started by Sandusky, according to My Fox Philly.
---
(...) Rep. Mike Vereb, R-Montgomery County, who is asking for an investigation into Dutchcot's connection to the charity, said that documents show Robert Poole, the chairman of The Second Mile, held a fundraiser for Duchtot in 2007 as she was running for office. The fundraiser netted $1,463 and was held at Poole's house in State College, Pa., according to the My Fox Philly report.
---
more at link above

elainebenice
11-16-2011, 04:35 PM
according to The Daily Collegian's Twitter account -

BREAKING: A new judge -- Robert E. Scott, of Westmoreland County -- has been assigned to the #Sandusky case. #PSUCharges

Dr.Fessel
11-16-2011, 04:40 PM
PeterAlexander Peter Alexander
#BREAKING New judge assigned for #Sandusky prelim hrg on 12/7 after concerns about judge who freed #Sandusky on bail.
8 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Quiche
11-16-2011, 04:51 PM
Excellent news! I think this cabal is going to have to learn a little about life without their cronies! TG!

Gin
11-16-2011, 04:51 PM
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2011/11/16/judge_changed_in_sandusky_case.aspx

From Daily Collegian Website:

"Judge Robert Scott, of Westmoreland County, is now assigned to the case. Scott has no connection to Penn State or The Second Mile charity, according to the release.
The change in the judge presiding over the case came from a request from the Centre County Court of Common Pleas.
The preliminary hearing will be held in Courtroom 1, of the Centre County Courthouse in Bellefonte, on Dec. 7 or a date to be determined by Scott."

We can only hope that this is a start in the right direction.

Velouria
11-16-2011, 04:55 PM
according to The Daily Collegian's Twitter account -

BREAKING: A new judge -- Robert E. Scott, of Westmoreland County -- has been assigned to the #Sandusky case. #PSUCharges


PeterAlexander Peter Alexander
#BREAKING New judge assigned for #Sandusky prelim hrg on 12/7 after concerns about judge who freed #Sandusky on bail.
8 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Thank you!

Something tells me the "Honorable" Judge Dutchcot will not be holding any re-election fundraisers in the future.

hallowedbe
11-16-2011, 05:07 PM
I will from now on think that he had some involvement in this. Perhaps he was blackmailed and had to disappear, or maybe someone silenced him, It is a very strange coincidence.

hallowedbe
11-16-2011, 05:22 PM
http://www.christianpost.com/news/jerry-sandusky-is-he-a-christian-61960/
Read this article today in the Christian Post.

hallowedbe
11-16-2011, 05:26 PM
Another probing article from Christianity Today.
http://blog.christianitytoday.com/women/2011/11/success_honor_and_the_legacy_o_1.html

Pensfan
11-16-2011, 05:57 PM
Quote:

The hate mail sent to black students had nothing to do with Sandusky’s proclivities, but the two incidences shared something in common: both were ultimately covered up by the university.

Penn State and Joe Paterno were not willing to allow bad publicity to ruin the university’s image

Concerned black students met with Paterno back in 2001.....Wolf recalls Paterno as almost emotionless

Ultimately, a black man’s dead body was found by police near Penn State as one of the death threats said it would. And some black students had to attend their graduation the following May with bulletproof vests on in fear of their life.

http://newsone.com/nation/theloop21/...lack-students/

The Pennsylvania State Police were involved in investigating this and they found that Penn State had nothing to do with this bs! This is SPIN. The President of a female black group on the main college campus stated someone was sending her hate messages. Later in a city far, far awy from her, a black man (later stated to be a drug dealer and NOT a student) was found dead a mile from the Wilkes-Barre campus. This campus is about 4 hours away from where Joe Paterno coached.

Months later, another black male (not a student either) was found dead from a gunshot wound in a small town near State College. This body was NOT found in the location stated in the threatening email to the black student leader. This black student group tried to connect this homicides to Penn State, but THIS TOWN WAS 20 MILES AWAY FROM ANY PENN STATE CAMPUS.

I hate to remind you guys this, but homicide in the leading cause of death in young black males in the USA and this is not Penn State's fault.

This was not a coverup by Penn State, Joe Paterno or Santa Claus. The State Police, which is the HIGHEST LEVEL of law enforcement in Pennsylvania, investigated this bs and found that these deaths were completely UNRELATED to Penn State.

Penn State put metal detectors at every entrance of the graduation ceremony so all the students would feel safe. They held meetings with the black groups and involved the State Police. Penn State did all kinds of things to appease the black students. The donated a million dollars to different groups and agreed to hire more black professors. This is NOT inaction.

There are racist idiots everywhere and Penn State cannot control their behavior.

Edit- The email to the black student leader was traced to a computer located TWO HUNDRED MILES FROM THE BLACK LEADER'S CAMPUS.
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/05/01/penn.state.racism.02/

MagnoliaMom
11-16-2011, 06:02 PM
http://www.christianpost.com/news/jerry-sandusky-is-he-a-christian-61960/
Read this article today in the Christian Post.


Sandusky regularly attended St. Paul's United Methodist Church in State College before the news broke of the allegations. He also has a sticker that reads, “Be still and know that I am God” (Psalm 46:10) attached to his garage door.

I can see how a narcissist would choose that Biblical quote.

MagnoliaMom
11-16-2011, 06:16 PM
Another probing article from Christianity Today.
http://blog.christianitytoday.com/women/2011/11/success_honor_and_the_legacy_o_1.html

The chart in that blog is well done and worth looking at.

LRinCA
11-16-2011, 06:23 PM
I guess this was a conflict of interest.





Ex-District Attorney referred Sandusky case due to wife’s family tie

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — A former Pennsylvania county prosecutor said Wednesday that he referred an allegation that former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky had sexually abused a child to state prosecutors because his wife’s brother was Sandusky’s adopted son.

Former Centre County District Attorney Michael Madeira told The Associated Press that he cited the possible conflict of interest in passing the 2009 report to the state attorney general’s office, which at the time was headed by now-Gov. Tom Corbett.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/jerry-sandusky-is-he-a-christian-61960/



BBM

Pensfan
11-16-2011, 06:34 PM
There's those two words again:
Paterno emotionless....bulletproof vests....That's stone cold, JoePa.
Back up your statements with facts, please. See my post located three posts above this one.

ThoughtFox
11-16-2011, 06:51 PM
From the New York Times "Quad" Sports Blog: Former Assistant of Paterno speaking out:

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/16/former-assistant-paints-a-less-than-flattering-picture-of-paterno/

“The parallels between Joe’s kingdom, the power and control he wields over his minions, and the very lax and deceptive response he made in 2002 to the report his prized assistant was seen sodomizing a child in the showers, and the Catholic Church’s power, control, and deceit in covering up its massive sexual abuse scandal are striking, yet not surprising to me.

“I worked on the other side of the ball from Jerry, but found him very talented with kids, albeit a bit more grabby and touchy with the many young kids surrounding him and his not for profit program, The Second Mile. It appeared he had boundary issues. Memories of this now make my stomach queasy.”

ThoughtFox
11-16-2011, 06:53 PM
I guess this was a conflict of interest.


Ex-District Attorney referred Sandusky case due to wife’s family tie

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — A former Pennsylvania county prosecutor said Wednesday that he referred an allegation that former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky had sexually abused a child to state prosecutors because his wife’s brother was Sandusky’s adopted son.

Former Centre County District Attorney Michael Madeira told The Associated Press that he cited the possible conflict of interest in passing the 2009 report to the state attorney general’s office, which at the time was headed by now-Gov. Tom Corbett.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/jerry-sandusky-is-he-a-christian-61960/


BBM

Did this Prosecutor work with Ray Gricar, the guy who disappeared? :waitasec: If he did, it might explain why the Grand Jury never found enough to indict - duh!

You can't make this stuff up, can you?

Gin
11-16-2011, 06:55 PM
From the New York Times "Quad" Sports Blog: Former Assistant of Paterno speaking out:

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/16/former-assistant-paints-a-less-than-flattering-picture-of-paterno/

“The parallels between Joe’s kingdom, the power and control he wields over his minions, and the very lax and deceptive response he made in 2002 to the report his prized assistant was seen sodomizing a child in the showers, and the Catholic Church’s power, control, and deceit in covering up its massive sexual abuse scandal are striking, yet not surprising to me.

“I worked on the other side of the ball from Jerry, but found him very talented with kids, albeit a bit more grabby and touchy with the many young kids surrounding him and his not for profit program, The Second Mile. It appeared he had boundary issues. Memories of this now make my stomach queasy.”

Wow. That is some article. Boundary issues has to be the understatement of the day, yet, it's often the first indicator of a problem. I have to believe that others must have observed the same thing over the years.

ThoughtFox
11-16-2011, 06:55 PM
NBC Philadelphia:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/133980738.html

A day after e-mails from Mike McQueary were leaked to the public, stating that he did in fact have “discussions with police” about allegedly witnessing Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky raping a boy in the football showers, State College Police Chief Tom King told NBC that McQueary never talked to police.

“Absolutely not. We don't have any records of him coming to us,” King said when asked by NBC’s Alison Kartevold if McQueary ever reported the child-sex allegation.

King says police received no reports of child sexual assault by Sandusky, aside from the investigation in 1998 that went nowhere. The alleged assault that McQueary testified about to a grand jury happened in 2002.

LRinCA
11-16-2011, 07:00 PM
Did this Prosecutor work with Ray Gricar, the guy who disappeared? :waitasec: If he did, it might explain why the Grand Jury never found enough to indict - duh!

You can't make this stuff up, can you?


Gricar's successor, Centre County District Attorney Michael Madeira, says he sent the hard drive to Kroll Ontrack after earlier analyses failed to recover any data. (September 23, 2008)

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2008/09/gricars_computer_hard_drive_yi.html

Gin
11-16-2011, 07:06 PM
NBC Philadelphia:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/133980738.html

A day after e-mails from Mike McQueary were leaked to the public, stating that he did in fact have “discussions with police” about allegedly witnessing Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky raping a boy in the football showers, State College Police Chief Tom King told NBC that McQueary never talked to police.

“Absolutely not. We don't have any records of him coming to us,” King said when asked by NBC’s Alison Kartevold if McQueary ever reported the child-sex allegation.

King says police received no reports of child sexual assault by Sandusky, aside from the investigation in 1998 that went nowhere. The alleged assault that McQueary testified about to a grand jury happened in 2002.

So the question is, did he or didn't he go to the police? Are there some kind of lesser renta cop police on campus that would take a report and file it away forever?
The other think that I can't figure out about McQueary is this: If he truly stopped the 2002 attack and reported it, then what the heck happened between him and Sandusky in the intervening years? When they ran into each other in the hallowed halls what did they say to each other? How ya doin'? Have a nice day? It's impossible for me to believe that they avoided each other for 9-10 years. Very, very strange.

Concerned Papa
11-16-2011, 07:18 PM
Back up your statements with facts, please. See my post located three posts above this one.

Every word of my post came from the link provided. Apparently your information says otherwise and I thank you for sharing it. I will also point out that I didn't dig this article up. The link was posted up thread before I commented on it.

We should ALL try to back our comments up with fact, as we understand it, from the media sources. That's why I make very few comments without a link.

Velouria
11-16-2011, 07:28 PM
Quote:


The Pennsylvania State Police were involved in investigating this and they found that Penn State had nothing to do with this bs! This is SPIN. The President of a female black group on the main college campus stated someone was sending her hate messages. Later in a city far, far awy from her, a black man (later stated to be a drug dealer and NOT a student) was found dead a mile from the Wilkes-Barre campus. This campus is about 4 hours away from where Joe Paterno coached.

Months later, another black male (not a student either) was found dead from a gunshot wound in a small town near State College. This body was NOT found in the location stated in the threatening email to the black student leader. This black student group tried to connect this homicides to Penn State, but THIS TOWN WAS 20 MILES AWAY FROM ANY PENN STATE CAMPUS.

I hate to remind you guys this, but homicide in the leading cause of death in young black males in the USA and this is not Penn State's fault.

This was not a coverup by Penn State, Joe Paterno or Santa Claus. The State Police, which is the HIGHEST LEVEL of law enforcement in Pennsylvania, investigated this bs and found that these deaths were completely UNRELATED to Penn State.

Penn State put metal detectors at every entrance of the graduation ceremony so all the students would feel safe. They held meetings with the black groups and involved the State Police. Penn State did all kinds of things to appease the black students. The donated a million dollars to different groups and agreed to hire more black professors. This is NOT inaction.

There are racist idiots everywhere and Penn State cannot control their behavior.

Edit- The email to the black student leader was traced to a computer located TWO HUNDRED MILES FROM THE BLACK LEADER'S CAMPUS.
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/05/01/penn.state.racism.02/

Respectfully Pensfan, I read the article and didn't see Ms. Wolfe or Ms. Richards say that anyone affiliated with Penn State was responsible for the letters or the murder, but rather that Paterno and the administration didn't take the hostility and threats toward black players seriously.


Paterno is known for his deadpan deliveries during press conferences after Penn State games, win or lose. But this wasn’t a game. Students were fearful for their lives. That year, Penn State was experiencing an unusual losing season (http://www.gopsusports.com/auto_pdf/p_hotos/s_chools/psu/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/game-by-game-under-joepa#00) – a big deal in the college franchise that spawned multiple national championships and undefeated seasons under Paterno’s 45-year reign (http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/paterno_joe00.html). Much vitriol was aimed at Penn State’s black quarterback – also unusual in Penn State’s mostly white quarterbacked history – Casey, who along with losing games was arrested in the off-season for fighting a white cop, allegedly over the cop’s African American date. Casey was cleared of those charges, but even Paterno admitted (http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/columnists/20010429cook.asp) that the quarterback remained the target of hate mail.

wfgodot
11-16-2011, 07:43 PM
Lawyer: Jerry Sandusky TV interview made alleged victim more willing to tell story (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/report_jerry_sandusky_tv_inter.html?utm_source=dlv r.it&utm_medium=twitter) (pennlive.com)

In a televised interview with NBC News Monday night, the lawyer for Jerry Sandusky, former Penn State coach charged with sexually assaulting boys, said that some of the alleged victims from a grand jury investigation of the case will say they weren't victimized. One victim's lawyer told the New York Times that that's not the case.
---
“Mr. Sandusky suggested in some of his comments about the victims that maybe people were backing off,” lawyer Ben Andreozzi of Harrisburg is quoted in the New York Times. “My client heard that and has dug in his heels. He is feeling more comfortable about going through with this. The comments maybe backfired. They have caused victims to be more motivated to testify against him.”
---
more at link above

Pensfan
11-16-2011, 07:59 PM
Respectfully Pensfan, I read the article and didn't see Ms. Wolfe or Ms. Richards say that anyone affiliated with Penn State was responsible for the letters or the murder, but rather that Paterno and the administration didn't take the hostility and threats toward black players seriously.

That article from newsone (Who the heck is that unknown organization anyway?) was SPIN. Where is the proof that this incident happened? <modsnip> This is how newsone (the source) defines itself: Latest news from a Black perspective with stories and opinions you won't read anywhere else (but should).

<modsnip>, what should Joe Paterno have done? Was Joe Paterno the head of campus police? Was he an FBI agent? Was he omniscient? Should Joe Pa have rented a 2S1 Gvozdika tank with a howitzer and drove throughout the state seeking to eliminate all racists? WTH?

Besides firebombing all cities in Pennsylvania to kill all potential racists, what else could Penn State administration have done about a racist (that lived 200 miles away) sending a female student hate-filled emails or some black students stating that they felt racism on campus? (Realize that Penn State has 80,000 students.)

Here is what was published that Penn State did in relation to the threatening emails that were sent to the black female group leader and statement that black students experienced racism on campus. There may be more things, but this was 11 years ago and I can't find many articles on this topic.
1. They involved the highest law enforcement agency in Pennsylvania.
2. They held numerous meeting with the NAACP and black student groups.
3. They held sensitivity programs on campus.
4. They installed metal detectors at every entrance to the graduation ceremony.
5. The paid more police officers to be present during the graduation ceremony.
6. They shelled out MILLIONS of $$$$ to black campus groups and their interests
7. They hired more black professors.

Gin
11-16-2011, 08:04 PM
Informative article from Sports Illustrated, will appear in Nov 21st 2011 issue.



Special Report: Scandal. Shame. A search for answers at Penn State.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/magazine/11/16/penn.st/index.html#ixzz1dus3qGLP
Several pages long, it gives quite a bit of background, perspective.

"I don't think I've ever been associated with a case where that type of eyewitness identification of sex acts [took] place where the police weren't called," Noonan told reporters, echoing the speculation already expressed by so many others that Penn State administrators had covered up Sandusky's crimes to protect the image of the university. "I don't think I've ever seen something like this before."

Frank Noonan (referenced above) is the State Police Commissioner. Obviously, this story is evolving. It remains to be seen whether or not an actual police report was ever filed.

Velouria
11-16-2011, 08:16 PM
That article from newsone (Who the heck is that unknown organization anyway?) was SPIN. Where is the proof that this incident happened? <modsnip> This is how newsone (the source) defines itself: Latest news from a Black perspective with stories and opinions you won't read anywhere else (but should).

Was Joe Paterno the head of campus police? Was he an FBI agent? Was he omniscient? Should Joe Pa have rented a 2S1 Gvozdika tank with a howitzer and drove throughout the state seeking to eliminate all racists? WTH?

Besides firebombing all cities in Pennsylvania to kill all potential racists, what else could Penn State have done about a racist (that lived 200 miles away) sending a female student hate-filled emails or or some black students stating that they felt racism on campus? (Realize that Penn State has 80,000 students.)

Here is what was published that Penn State did in relation to the threatening emails that were sent to the black female group leader. There may be more things, but this was 11 years ago and I can't find many articles on this topic.
1. They involved the highest law enforcement agency in Pennsylvania.
2. They held numerous meeting with the NAACP and black student groups.
3. They held sensitivity programs on campus.
4. They installed metal detectors at every entrance to the graduation ceremony.
5. The paid more police officers to be present during the graduation ceremony.
6. They shelled out MILLIONS to black campus groups and their interests
7. They hired more black professors.

Well, I'm glad to see that people aren't taking this personally...

<modsnip>

No one ever claimed that the sainted JoePa was omniscient, and I can't speak to his demeanor at the "alleged" meeting - simply commenting on the article.

Quiche
11-16-2011, 08:21 PM
Penn State powerless to keep Sandusky off campus

(Reuters) - Penn State says alleged child sex abuser Jerry Sandusky is "not welcome" on its campus, but the university so far has no legal recourse to keep the former assistant football coach away.

and

The ruling placed no restrictions on his travel. Sandusky's lawyer, Joe Amendola, advised Sandusky and his wife to take a trip ahead of the next legal proceeding to clear his head, he told CNN.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/16/us-usa-crime-coach-campus-idUSTRE7AF1WZ20111116

Quiche
11-16-2011, 08:26 PM
Penn State May Seek Immunity After Skirting Public Laws

Nov. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Pennsylvania State University, after years of skirting public-school rules, may claim protection from liability under commonwealth laws that shield government entities, if it faces suits related to a child-sex scandal.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/11/16/bloomberg_articlesLURXB21A74E9.DTL#ixzz1duxtJxLm

Quiche
11-16-2011, 08:31 PM
Paterno up for $500K pension; Sandusky gets $60K

Quote: Paterno's pension records obtained Tuesday from the State Employees' Retirement System credit him with more than 60 years in the system. The formula used to determine benefits makes him eligible for a pension equal to 100 percent of the average of his three highest-salary years.

His pay rose from $541,000 to $568,000 over the past three full calendar years.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57325860/paterno-up-for-$500k-pension-sandusky-gets-$60k/

ynotdivein
11-16-2011, 08:42 PM
Stay focused on the issue at hand, and please be civil to and respectful of one another. Lots of better places to direct our anger and frustration than at each other, peeps.

Where this post falls is random, and :tyou:

LRinCA
11-16-2011, 09:08 PM
Penn State May Seek Immunity After Skirting Public Laws

Nov. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Pennsylvania State University, after years of skirting public-school rules, may claim protection from liability under commonwealth laws that shield government entities, if it faces suits related to a child-sex scandal.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/11/16/bloomberg_articlesLURXB21A74E9.DTL#ixzz1duxtJxLm

This article might be of interest as well:


As reporters go over every detail of the Penn State scandal, including employee records, e-mails and personal information, there are some details they will not be able to discover. You can thank recently-ousted school president Graham Spanier for that.

Spanier fought for and won an exemption from Pennsylvania's Right to Know Law that requires state employees and offices to provide all pertinent information to the taxpayers funding it.

Full:
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/11/16/2567403/penn-state-scandal-exemption-right-know-law-state-open-records

Dr.Fessel
11-16-2011, 09:10 PM
This is really funny. For years Penn State has refused the open book laws for schools by saying they are not a State school.

Now to protect themselves from lawsuits they might claim they are a state school. Of course the down side to that is they have to open their books.

Nov. 16 (Bloomberg) -- Pennsylvania State University, after years of skirting public-school rules, may claim protection from liability under commonwealth laws that shield government entities, if it faces suits related to a child-sex scandal.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/11/16/bloomberg_articlesLURXB21A74E9.DTL#ixzz1dv812jqM

Gin
11-16-2011, 09:16 PM
This article might be of interest as well:


As reporters go over every detail of the Penn State scandal, including employee records, e-mails and personal information, there are some details they will not be able to discover. You can thank recently-ousted school president Graham Spanier for that.

Spanier fought for and won an exemption from Pennsylvania's Right to Know Law that requires state employees and offices to provide all pertinent information to the taxpayers funding it.

Full:
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-football/2011/11/16/2567403/penn-state-scandal-exemption-right-know-law-state-open-records

It is amazing to me that Penn State willfully fought hard to claim such low moral and ethical ground. Good leaders and great universities should not be in the business of keeping as much information as possible secret and hidden.

Dr.Fessel
11-16-2011, 09:24 PM
It is amazing to me that Penn State willfully fought hard to claim such low moral and ethical ground. Good leaders and great universities should not be in the business of keeping as much information as possible secret and hidden.
4 Billion a year operating budget.

ynotdivein
11-16-2011, 09:27 PM
Bumping this post.


Stay focused on the issue at hand, and please be civil to and respectful of one another. Lots of better places to direct our anger and frustration than at each other, peeps.

Where this post falls is random, and :tyou:

Dr.Fessel
11-16-2011, 09:27 PM
4 Billion a year operating budget and the Treasurer is arrested for lying to a grand jury and not reporting a child rape.

wfgodot
11-16-2011, 09:31 PM
Police have no records McQueary talked to them in 2002 (http://deadspin.com/5860292/today-in-mike-mcquearys-snow-globe-police-have-no-records-he-talked-to-them-in-2002) (Deadspin)
---

Both the university police and the State College PD deny having any record that Mike McQueary filed a report with them after stumbling upon Jerry Sandusky allegedly raping an as-yet-unidentified boy in a Penn State campus shower in 2002.
---
The Patriot-News of Harrisburg has also acquired a hand-written statement McQueary gave police as part of the grand jury's investigation, and in it there is no mention that he stopped the assault or spoke with any police officers in the days after he witnessed the alleged rape.

Here's why all this is important: Sandusky's lawyer, Joe Amendola, is now likely to seize on McQueary's seemingly contradictory statements—in his testimony to the grand jury and then in his email to friends—to attack his credibility as a witness.

However, McQueary also never said he filed a report with the police, just that he "did have discussions" with them. The most favorable gloss on that is that McQueary is counting his meeting with Schultz, a week after the incident, as a discussion "with police." The unfavorable gloss is that McQueary is saying one thing in public and another thing in private.
---
more, including a review of McQueary's statements, at link above

Pensfan
11-16-2011, 09:33 PM
It is amazing to me that Penn State willfully fought hard to claim such low moral and ethical ground. Good leaders and great universities should not be in the business of keeping as much information as possible secret and hidden.
Uh...this was NOT just Penn State that fought for an exemption to this law! ALL OF THE EMPLOYEES AT STATE UNIVERSITIES FOUGHT THIS LAW! The Right to Know Law allowed everyone to see all university employees' compensation. This is why university employees wanted an exemption.

Would you want everyone on Earth to know PRECISELY what your income was AND BE ABLE TO FIND IT ONLINE? How about your benefit package? What about having access to how much you will be paid in your retirement? What about everyone on Earth being able to find what health plan you chose from your university employer? What if you chose the most expensive plan available and this might imply that you had a terminal illness like cancer or AIDS?

Over ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE FOUGHT THIS LAW. I was a university employee during this time (not Penn State) and I fought it too. I didn't want to share my compensation package with the entire world. You wouldn't either!

MagnoliaMom
11-16-2011, 09:41 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/16/exclusive-charitys-donors-kept-in-dark-about-penn-state-sex-abuse-investigation/


While Second Mile kept its donors in the dark, it did take steps as early as 2006 to protect its assets -- though from what, is unclear.

The charity filed two amendments to its articles of incorporation in that year, once in February and another in September, stipulating that its assets should be liquidated, if the need arose, and donated to other existing charities. The revelation comes through a FoxNews.com review of the charity's articles of incorporation, which were obtained from the Pennsylvania Department of State.

Steely Dan
11-16-2011, 09:56 PM
Did anyone hear something weird about the attorney for Sandusky yet? My dh just walked in with a story, but I'm afraid to post it, because I have no proof.

If you're husband told you that his attorney impregnated a 16 year old and then married her when he was approx. 49 then it's true. Look in the #2 thread for the link.

ynotdivein
11-16-2011, 09:57 PM
Rosepetal, is this the story you're thinking of?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/15/joseph-amendola-jerry-sandusky-impregnated-teen_n_1095005.html

Dr.Fessel
11-16-2011, 10:04 PM
Uh...this was NOT just Penn State that fought for an exemption to this law! ALL OF THE EMPLOYEES AT STATE UNIVERSITIES FOUGHT THIS LAW! The Right to Know Law allowed everyone to see all university employees' compensation. This is why university employees wanted an exemption.

Would you want everyone on Earth to know PRECISELY what your income was AND BE ABLE TO FIND IT ONLINE? How about your benefit package? What about having access to how much you will be paid in your retirement? What about everyone on Earth being able to find what health plan you chose from your university employer? What if you chose the most expensive plan available and this might imply that you had a terminal illness like cancer or AIDS?

Over ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND PEOPLE FOUGHT THIS LAW. I was a university employee during this time (not Penn State) and I fought it too. I didn't want to share my compensation package with the entire world. You wouldn't either!

I would. If I was being paid money that the government took by force from the people of the state then I would have no problem letting them know how much money they were paying me. Why shouldn't they have that right?

LRinCA
11-16-2011, 10:19 PM
Case Puts Focus on Grand-Jury Quirk

WSJ-



...In the federal system and most states that use the grand-jury system, grand juries typically unveil their criminal allegations against someone in an indictment or a criminal complaint. Such documents are usually tersely worded and can run as few as three or four pages, stating only the most essential factual allegations. They also often use initials or pseudonyms to protect people who aren't criminally charged. But Pennsylvania is one of a handful of states in which...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204517204577042491094936470.html

Dr.Fessel
11-16-2011, 10:22 PM
After that ridiculous, arrogant court fight - which must have cost the college a fortune in legal fees that could have been better spent in classrooms - it's surprising what the state Legislature did the next year when it passed a new and supposedly improved state Right to Know law.

It exempted Penn State and the other three "state-related" universities from many of the provisions in the law.

According to a recent New York Times story, those schools "are required only to issue annual reports by May 30 and make public the salaries of their officers and directors and 25 highest-paid employees."

That means citizen watchdogs wanting to look into the Sandusky scandal can't get access to emails.

They can't request phone records.

There could be a wealth of information in PSU files pertinent to these appalling cases that the school is simply not required to divulge to citizens.

Why? Officials at "state related" schools (Pitt, Temple, Lincoln, PSU) argued that such disclosures would put them at a competitive disadvantage against private universities as they compete for funding.

The result is that PSU has a loophole that state agencies and other state schools don't enjoy.

It's time to close that loophole.

If Penn State is going to take some $272 million from taxpayers this year, if its employees are covered under the State Employees' Retirement System, then citizens should have the same open records request rights as they would at any other state agency.

Release of such information could shed more light on how this horrific situation came to pass or was allowed to continue. It might help us understand who knew what and when - and why so little, it seems, was done early, when the first allegations came to light.

It could also lead to valuable lessons in how to prevent and thwart such situations in the future. http://www.ydr.com/psu/ci_19337132

Salem
11-16-2011, 10:24 PM
Rosepetal, is this the story you're thinking of?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/15/joseph-amendola-jerry-sandusky-impregnated-teen_n_1095005.html


Why oh Why would you take on a high profile case, defending an accused child predator, when you have such skeletons in your closet? Why? That just can't be smart :waitasec:

Salem

LRinCA
11-16-2011, 10:30 PM
Mike McQueary attended Jerry Sandusky fundraiser one year after making sexual assault allegations

by Sara Ganim*

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/mcqueary_attended_sandusky_fun.html



*She's been interviewed several times on CNN

Pensfan
11-16-2011, 10:31 PM
I would. If I was being paid money that the government took by force from the people of the state then I would have no problem letting them know how much money they were paying me. Why shouldn't they have that right?


The Pennsylvania Constitution, like the U.S. Constitution, protects a citizen’s right to some privacy from the government. The human right to privacy also has precedent in the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.


USA Bill of Rights (and 14th Amendment) Provisions Relating to the Right of Privacy
Amendment I
(Privacy of Beliefs)
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Amendment III
(Privacy of the Home)
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

Amendment IV
(Privacy of the Person and their Possessions)
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Amendment IX
(More General Protection for Privacy?)
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Liberty Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment

No State shall... deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, 
without due process of law.

azwriter
11-16-2011, 10:33 PM
I guess this was a conflict of interest.





Ex-District Attorney referred Sandusky case due to wife’s family tie

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — A former Pennsylvania county prosecutor said Wednesday that he referred an allegation that former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky had sexually abused a child to state prosecutors because his wife’s brother was Sandusky’s adopted son.
Former Centre County District Attorney Michael Madeira told The Associated Press that he cited the possible conflict of interest in passing the 2009 report to the state attorney general’s office, which at the time was headed by now-Gov. Tom Corbett.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/jerry-sandusky-is-he-a-christian-61960/



BBM

If his wife's brother was Sandusky's adopted child, wouldn't that make her Sandusky's adopted daughter. Or were the two siblings seperated and adopted by different parents.

Pensfan
11-16-2011, 10:47 PM
Now Dr. Drew is going to "spin" that Spanier fought for the exemption from the Right to Know Law. He will conveniently forget to mention that ALL state universities in PA fought for this exemption. He will forget to mention that their employees didn't want all their compensation posted on the internet.

Gin
11-16-2011, 10:55 PM
Mike McQueary attended Jerry Sandusky fundraiser one year after making sexual assault allegations

by Sara Ganim*

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/mcqueary_attended_sandusky_fun.html



*She's been interviewed several times on CNN

As I read the article, it lists folks who will be participating. It doesn't actually say for certain who was there. But, regardless, why in the world would McQueary even accept an invitation to attend??? Why would he offer and plan to attend any event with Sandusky? How could any person set aside the experience of witnessing a rape of a child and allow themselves to (apparently comfortably) socialize with the alleged rapist????

Please don't tell me this the price one pays if they want to move up in the football program. Keep in mind this event was in 2003...not all that long after the sexual assault. I am stunned.

rosepetal1065
11-16-2011, 11:00 PM
If you're husband told you that his attorney impregnated a 16 year old and then married her when he was approx. 49 then it's true. Look in the #2 thread for the link.

UGH...that's what he said.

Wise Old Owl
11-16-2011, 11:00 PM
He (McQ) also played in a charity gold tourney with Sandusky too. It was in a previous article way back there <----------------------I remember commenting on it.

That boggles the mind - HOW does one "socialize" with someone they have previously caught doing such a heinous act?

Gin
11-16-2011, 11:04 PM
Now Dr. Drew is going to "spin" that Spanier fought for the exemption from the Right to Know Law. He will conveniently forget to mention that ALL state universities in PA fought for this exemption. He will forget to mention that their employees didn't want all their compensation posted on the internet.

Pennsfan, I can tell you feel strongly about this issue. May I mention something, though? Folks in the military and civilians who work for the federal government don't have any real privacy about their compensation. All anyone who wants to know needs to do is pull up the table and read it across. Doesn't make anyone right or wrong, just some perspective.
And one other thing, I'm pretty sure the issues that are being discussed on this thread must be awful for a Penn State fan. Just wanted to pass on a bit of gentle understanding.

LRinCA
11-16-2011, 11:10 PM
If his wife's brother was Sandusky's adopted child, wouldn't that make her Sandusky's adopted daughter. Or were the two siblings seperated and adopted by different parents.


I just saw this come up:



Madeira's wife, Lisa, also was adopted, but by a different family. Including Madeira's brother-in-law, Sandusky has six adopted children.


Much more: http://www.hanfordsentinel.com/sports/national/college/article_ad35a175-d4ee-5685-bb2b-091cb0cd4703.html#ixzz1dvcvYdQP

LRinCA
11-16-2011, 11:13 PM
Pennsfan, I can tell you feel strongly about this issue.
And one other thing, I'm pretty sure the issues that are being discussed on this thread must be awful for a Penn State fan. Just wanted to pass on a bit of gentle understanding.

I was just thinking the same thing about five minutes ago.

LRinCA
11-16-2011, 11:21 PM
This is from the link I just posted re: Mike Madeira:


"I don't know what was in the report that Ray saw," Madeira said. "Unless we know different, it's unfair to suggest that Ray didn't do something that he should have done because I don't know what he had in front of him. He's the one who talked to the victims. He saw the other portions of the investigation that I am not privy to."

Read more: http://www.hanfordsentinel.com/sports/national/college/article_ad35a175-d4ee-5685-bb2b-091cb0cd4703.html#ixzz1dvf58n87

BBM

Filly
11-16-2011, 11:23 PM
Are the kids at Milton Hershey School no less deserving of protection?




http://www.miltonhersheyforums.org/showthread.php?1785-PSU-Scandal-MHS-Kids-Are-No-Less-Deserving-Of-Protection-amp-Leadership-Accountability


Right before the PSU scandal broke our Inquirer did an in length article about the coverup at MHS. Haven't heard a thing since.

wfgodot
11-16-2011, 11:34 PM
Terrific read from the always-good Jane Leavy at Grantland:

An Open Letter to Mike McQueary: On the plight of the whistleblower (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7243526/an-open-letter-mike-mcqueary)

SyraKelly
11-16-2011, 11:44 PM
Penn State Scandal Emboldens Other Abuse Victims

http://www.npr.org/2011/11/16/142369663/penn-state-scandal-emboldens-other-abuse-victims

This story gives me hope that all victims will step forward and put these monsters away for good!!!!

LRinCA
11-16-2011, 11:44 PM
Terrific read from the always-good Jane Leavy at Grantland:

An Open Letter to Mike McQueary: On the plight of the whistleblower (http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7243526/an-open-letter-mike-mcqueary)

From a link at your link:


And once again...

The 43-year-old, married and the father of two children, was responsible for the residential life of about 800 teenage students and was living on the campus of the Milton Hershey School for impoverished children


BBM

LRinCA
11-16-2011, 11:46 PM
This story gives me hope that all victims will step forward and put these monsters away for good!!!!

I keep thinking about an eye-opener of a statistic I heard relayed by one of the talking heads over the course of the last week:


On average, a child has to tell SEVEN adults before anyone believes them and/or takes measures to stop the abuse.

J. J. in Phila
11-16-2011, 11:53 PM
If his wife's brother was Sandusky's adopted child, wouldn't that make her Sandusky's adopted daughter. Or were the two siblings seperated and adopted by different parents.

She, and her brother, were adopted by different families.

J. J. in Phila
11-16-2011, 11:56 PM
The irony is, I don't even like college football.

Dr.Fessel
11-17-2011, 12:11 AM
The irony is, I don't even like college football.

I had never heard the name Joe Paterno until this story broke. I think most people in the country had not heard of him.

SyraKelly
11-17-2011, 12:12 AM
I keep thinking about an eye-opener of a statistic I heard relayed by one of the talking heads over the course of the last week:


On average, a child has to tell SEVEN adults before anyone believes them and/or takes measures to stop the abuse.


I did not know that-Thanks for sharing!!

Dr.Fessel
11-17-2011, 12:14 AM
Good article http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/sports/ncaafootball/internet-posting-helped-sandusky-investigators.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1 Working off the brief mention on an Internet forum where people chatted about Penn State athletics, according to the two people with knowledge of the case, investigators narrowed their list of coaches likely to have seen something to Mike McQueary, then an assistant coach and the football program’s recruiting coordinator.

State College is a close-knit community. Word would get around that a Penn State coach had met with investigators. So investigators set up a meeting in an out-of-the-way parking lot, according to those with knowledge of the case.

There, one day a little over a year ago, McQueary unburdened himself, the two people said. He needed little prompting.

He told of a horrific scene he had stumbled upon as a graduate assistant one Friday night in March 2002: a naked boy, about 10, hands pressed against the locker room wall of the Lasch Football Building, being raped by Sandusky. McQueary was explicit and unequivocal, the people said. He had told Paterno, the team’s longtime and widely beloved head coach, about the incident the next day, but he was filled with regret that nothing had happened.

“This had been weighing on him for a very long time, and our guys felt he was relieved to get it off his chest,” one law enforcement official said. “When he had the opportunity to make it right, he told the truth.”

SyraKelly
11-17-2011, 12:14 AM
I had never heard the name Joe Paterno until this story broke. I think most people in the country had not heard of him.

me neither!!

ScorpRising
11-17-2011, 12:15 AM
I keep thinking about an eye-opener of a statistic I heard relayed by one of the talking heads over the course of the last week:


On average, a child has to tell SEVEN adults before anyone believes them and/or takes measures to stop the abuse.


Sometimes, going to the authorities doesn't even help. It took a parent I am acquainted with seven years to get a legal doc stating the abuser couldn't see the abused. Seven years of psychologists and court dates and abuse and similar stories from another child and nothing happened. Know what it took? The actual rape and subsequent rape kit. The poor girl's word wasn't good enough. Seven whole years the PA C&Y and legal system failed a little girl and granted weekly overnight visitation to her abuser and ultimately her rapist while her protector was held in contempt repeatedly. Yay system... This girl's not even a teenager yet...

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 12:22 AM
Good article http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/sports/ncaafootball/internet-posting-helped-sandusky-investigators.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1


Thanks for posting this. There's one part I'm kind of confused about but I'm going to go back and reread the first part.

One paragraph that stopped me in my tracks was this:


Officials at the Second Mile, the charity for at-risk children that Sandusky founded and that prosecutors say he used to target victims, reported that several years of the organization’s records were missing and had perhaps been stolen.

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 12:24 AM
... This girl's not even a teenager yet...

There are no words. Or emoticons. I'm just sitting here shaking my head.

Emeralgem
11-17-2011, 12:24 AM
I had never heard the name Joe Paterno until this story broke. I think most people in the country had not heard of him.

O/T..Seriously? I don't know the names of too many football coaches, but I cannot imagine anyone not knowing who Paterno is and where he coached.. He was head coach at Penn State since 1966..Thats basically my entire adult life.. JMHO

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 12:26 AM
I did not know that-Thanks for sharing!!

You're welcome.

The other statistic they mentioned that night was that, on average, 100 people are affected by the acts of one pedophile. I really need to find a link for that one because I may not be portraying it accurately.

In any case, I was thinking about it this morning when I was reading an article about this case. The tentacles seem endless.

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 12:33 AM
This, from the NY Times article posted by Dr. Fessel clears up a big question in my mind.


As investigators leafed through the old report — it ran close to 100 pages — they came to believe that the campus police officers had truly wanted to make a case against Sandusky, according to people with knowledge of the current investigation. The officers had gone so far as to set up a sting operation in which the boy’s mother called the coach, and, with the police listening in, confronted Sandusky.


I was concerned (or had the impression) that all the information about that incident had been lost on Gricar's hard drive.

wfgodot
11-17-2011, 12:34 AM
We've touched on several of the issues contained in the reporting at the link below here already, but this is well-sourced, with links to articles quoted from, and to primary documents:

Governor Corbett Funded Sandusky Pet Project, Hid His Abuse (http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/gov-funded-sandusky-pet-project-hid-his-abuse-29901) (sportsbybrooks.com)

---
While the failure of so many at Penn State and The Second Mile to place the welfare of children above their own personal desires has now been established, the lack of action taken by the highest law enforcement official in the state during much of the current Sandusky investigation has yet to be explained. At least sufficiently.

Perhaps that has something to do with that same person being the current Governor of Pennsylvania, Tom Corbett.

Corbett was the state’s Attorney General when the first break in the current Sandusky case took place. In 2008, according to the Grand Jury report, it was first learned that Sandusky had forcibly performed oral sex on an early-teens boy more than 20 times, and forced the child to perform oral sex on the former Penn State Defensive Coordinator.
---
Despite the appalling nature of the 2008 charges against Sandusky, and the fact that he still had access to thousands of vulnerable children at The Second Mile, now-Governor Corbett only assigned a single state trooper to investigate the case in March, 2009.

The Second Mile was never notified by Corbett - or anyone in law enforcement for that matter - that Corbett’s investigation had evidence that the children’s charity founder was a child rapist.

Or that Sandusky was being investigated at all!
---
Much more, including Corbett okaying the funding for Sandusky's pet project in spite of what he knew, at link above.

Gov. Corbett should resign now and beat the rush.

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 12:37 AM
Pennsfan, I can tell you feel strongly about this issue. May I mention something, though? Folks in the military and civilians who work for the federal government don't have any real privacy about their compensation. All anyone who wants to know needs to do is pull up the table and read it across. Doesn't make anyone right or wrong, just some perspective.
And one other thing, I'm pretty sure the issues that are being discussed on this thread must be awful for a Penn State fan. Just wanted to pass on a bit of gentle understanding.

Thank you for expressing your understanding. I am not a Penn State fan though.
I am a Pittsburgh Penguin hockey fan. The Penguins are called "the Pens", therefore, Pensfan.




Sandusky's evil behavior and the lies/inaction by his enablers are very disturbing. The distortion/spin of other issues surrounding Penn State should also be disturbing to those interested in truth.

On this thread in the past twenty four hours these untruths, and likely others, were posted:

Other Penn State professors were child abusers. This was untrue. The professor that was mentioned was found "not guilty".

It was posted that Penn State administrators were apathetic to racism and death threats to black students. This was untrue. (See that post for the many actions of Penn State.)

It was posted that Penn State had attempted to coverup a racially motivated homicide of a black man. This was untrue. Ridiculously, the murder wasn't even near a Penn State campus.

It was insinuated that the President of Penn State fought for an exemption from the Right to Know Law because he was trying to hide information related to this pedophile scandal. This is untrue. ALL the university presidents of ALL Pennsylvania state universities along with hundreds of thousand of employees fought for this exemption. (privacy concerns related to their compensation/benefits)

J. J. in Phila
11-17-2011, 12:38 AM
I had never heard the name Joe Paterno until this story broke. I think most people in the country had not heard of him.

Well, I knew who Paterno was.

When I saw the headline about Sandusky being investigated, I thought it was a city in Ohio. I'm not joking.

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 12:39 AM
Someone brought up the subject of whether or not Sandusky had a "type" (I think it was on thread #2). From the article Dr. Fessel posted it would seem he did.


"He tended to choose white boys from homes where there was no father or some difficulty in the family, investigators said, and he drew them in with trips to games and expensive gifts like computers."

SyraKelly
11-17-2011, 12:40 AM
This case just gets bigger & bigger everyday-its mind boggling!!

ScorpRising
11-17-2011, 12:42 AM
We've touched on several of the issues contained in the reporting at the link below here already, but this is well-sourced, with links to articles quoted from, and to primary documents:

Governor Corbett Funded Sandusky Pet Project, Hid His Abuse (http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/gov-funded-sandusky-pet-project-hid-his-abuse-29901) (sportsbybrooks.com)

Much more, including Corbett okaying the funding for Sandusky's pet project in spite of what he knew, at link above.

Gov. Corbett should resign now and beat the rush.

Thank you. I feel slightly less like a conspiracy theorist now :crazy:

ScorpRising
11-17-2011, 12:43 AM
Well, I knew who Paterno was.

When I saw the headline about Sandusky being investigated, I thought it was a city in Ohio. I'm not joking.

Ditto

wfgodot
11-17-2011, 12:44 AM
This case just gets bigger & bigger everyday-its mind boggling!!
It's unfolding like Watergate did. Still much more to come, too.

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 12:52 AM
---
Quote:

While the failure of so many at Penn State and The Second Mile to place the welfare of children above their own personal desires has now been established, the lack of action taken by the highest law enforcement official in the state during much of the current Sandusky investigation has yet to be explained. At least sufficiently.

Perhaps that has something to do with that same person being the current Governor of Pennsylvania, Tom Corbett.

Corbett was the state’s Attorney General when the first break in the current Sandusky case took place. In 2008, according to the Grand Jury report, it was first learned that Sandusky had forcibly performed oral sex on an early-teens boy more than 20 times, and forced the child to perform oral sex on the former Penn State Defensive Coordinator.
---
Despite the appalling nature of the 2008 charges against Sandusky, and the fact that he still had access to thousands of vulnerable children at The Second Mile, now-Governor Corbett only assigned a single state trooper to investigate the case in March, 2009.

The Second Mile was never notified by Corbett - or anyone in law enforcement for that matter - that Corbett’s investigation had evidence that the children’s charity founder was a child rapist.

Or that Sandusky was being investigated at all!
---




We've touched on several of the issues contained in the reporting at the link below here already, but this is well-sourced, with links to articles quoted from, and to primary documents:

Governor Corbett Funded Sandusky Pet Project, Hid His Abuse (http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/gov-funded-sandusky-pet-project-hid-his-abuse-29901) (sportsbybrooks.com)

Much more, including Corbett okaying the funding for Sandusky's pet project in spite of what he knew, at link above.

Gov. Corbett should resign now and beat the rush.

Uh....that is not true that the Second Mile did not know Sandusky was being investigated for pedophile charges. Jack Raykovitz, a practicing psychologist and director at Second Mile, testified before the grand jury that recommended indicting Sandusky on child abuse charges. He would have been contacted and interviewed before the grand jury met. Nobody knows when that occurred, but it had to have occurred.

ScorpRising
11-17-2011, 12:53 AM
It's unfolding like Watergate did. Still much more to come, too.

Whispers... Go higher, dig deeper.

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 12:56 AM
We've touched on several of the issues contained in the reporting at the link below here already, but this is well-sourced, with links to articles quoted from, and to primary documents:


Wow...

This is in direct conflict with what the NY Times article has quoted Wendell Courtney as saying.


… the 1998 incident was reviewed by the University Police and “the child protection agency” with the blessing of then-University counsel Wendell Courtney. Courtney was then and remains counsel for The Second Mile.

vs.

But other than that, “at no time, whether in 1998 or in 2002 or any other point in time, was I made aware or did I have knowledge of Jerry Sandusky engaging in sexual misconduct with young children,” Courtney said. “Had I had any idea that there was even remotely improper conduct with children on any day since the beginning of time, nothing in the world would have kept me from being absolutely certain that it was reported to the police immediately. That is my duty.” (NY Times)

wfgodot
11-17-2011, 01:00 AM
---
Quote:
Uh....this is not true that the The Second Mile did not know about Sandusky's pedophile charges. Jack Raykovitz, a practicing psychologist, testified before the grand jury that recommended indicting Sandusky on child abuse charges.
The article does not say that Second Mile was unaware of Sandusky's predicament; it says that "Second Mile was never notified by Corbett - or anyone in law enforcement for that matter - that Corbett’s investigation had evidence that the children’s charity founder was a child rapist."

As for practicing psychologist Jack Raykovitz, the article goes on to say that he "personally knew of Sandusky’s 2002 ban from bringing children to Penn State but didn’t attempt to segregate Sandusky in any way from The Second Mile children until Sandusky informed him of the current criminal investigation - which began in 2008."

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 01:01 AM
Wow...

This is in direct conflict with what the NY Times article has quoted Wendell Courtney as saying.


… the 1998 incident was reviewed by the University Police and “the child protection agency” with the blessing of then-University counsel Wendell Courtney. Courtney was then and remains counsel for The Second Mile.

vs.

But other than that, “at no time, whether in 1998 or in 2002 or any other point in time, was I made aware or did I have knowledge of Jerry Sandusky engaging in sexual misconduct with young children,” Courtney said. “Had I had any idea that there was even remotely improper conduct with children on any day since the beginning of time, nothing in the world would have kept me from being absolutely certain that it was reported to the police immediately. That is my duty.” (NY Times)
The 1998 incident is the incident which the "missing" DA (Ray Gricar) decided not to prosecute.

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 01:06 AM
The article does not say that Second Mile was unaware of Sandusky's predicament; it says that "Second Mile was never notified by Corbett - or anyone in law enforcement for that matter - that Corbett’s investigation had evidence that the children’s charity founder was a child rapist."

As for practicing psychologist Jack Raykovitz, the article goes on to say that he "personally knew of Sandusky’s 2002 ban from bringing children to Penn State but didn’t attempt to segregate Sandusky in any way from The Second Mile children until Sandusky informed him of the current criminal investigation - which began in 2008."
If the president of Second Mile was interviewed about Sandusky to determine if enough evidence was present to seat a grand jury, I'd say that qualifies as being "notified" by authorities. Maybe Corbett didn't notify them, but the president certainly knew a long time before he was called to testify at the grand jury because he was interviewed to determine if there should be a grand jury.

wfgodot
11-17-2011, 01:13 AM
If the president of Second Mile was interviewed about Sandusky to determine if enough evidence was present to seat a grand jury, I'd say that qualifies as being "notified" by authorities. Maybe Corbett didn't notify them, but the president certainly knew a long time before he was called to testify at the grand jury because he was interviewed to determine if there should be a grand jury.
I'll not quibble. Raykovitz allowed Sandusky access to Second Mile children for six years, although he knew. Penn State sold forty acres of land to Sandusky's Second Mile for the project at a very nice price, although they knew. Corbett funded Sandusky's Second Mile "dream project" to the tune of $3,000,000 taxpayer dollars, although he knew.

It would appear that from The Second Mile to the halls of Penn State to the governor's office, they all knew.

SyraKelly
11-17-2011, 01:15 AM
Someone brought up the subject of whether or not Sandusky had a "type" (I think it was on thread #2). From the article Dr. Fessel posted it would seem he did.


"He tended to choose white boys from homes where there was no father or some difficulty in the family, investigators said, and he drew them in with trips to games and expensive gifts like computers."


We've touched on several of the issues contained in the reporting at the link below here already, but this is well-sourced, with links to articles quoted from, and to primary documents:

Governor Corbett Funded Sandusky Pet Project, Hid His Abuse (http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/gov-funded-sandusky-pet-project-hid-his-abuse-29901) (sportsbybrooks.com)

Much more, including Corbett okaying the funding for Sandusky's pet project in spite of what he knew, at link above.

Gov. Corbett should resign now and beat the rush.

I don't even want to tell you all what was going through my mind when I was reading what this pet project would have inside of it.Let me just say-Thank GOd above- Sandusky will have no part of it!!speechless!!

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 01:16 AM
As for practicing psychologist Jack Raykovitz, he should have his license YANKED and never be allowed to be work as a psychologist again. I wonder when the state professional licensing board will yank his license. Not soon enough, IMO. He knew ten years ago and did nothing.

Concerned Papa
11-17-2011, 01:21 AM
We've touched on several of the issues contained in the reporting at the link below here already, but this is well-sourced, with links to articles quoted from, and to primary documents:

Governor Corbett Funded Sandusky Pet Project, Hid His Abuse (http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/gov-funded-sandusky-pet-project-hid-his-abuse-29901) (sportsbybrooks.com)

Much more, including Corbett okaying the funding for Sandusky's pet project in spite of what he knew, at link above.

Gov. Corbett should resign now and beat the rush.

It's going to be interesting to see the extent of political whirlwind that develops around a Governor who gave $3,000,000.00 of taxpayer money to a child rapist's pet project and primary source of victims.

A Governor in New York was forced to resign a couple of years ago for giving a few thousand of his OWN money to a prostitute. He's looking like a choir boy next to this guy.

J. J. in Phila
11-17-2011, 01:26 AM
The 1998 incident is the incident which the "missing" DA (Ray Gricar) decided not to prosecute.

From the NYT:




Ultimately, the district attorney decided against taking the case to trial, a decision that, years later, the attorney general’s investigators could well understand. According to people with knowledge of the current Sandusky case, the district attorney’s decision in 1998 was a close call, even with the evidence the campus police had.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/sports/ncaafootball/internet-posting-helped-sandusky-investigators.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2

I think that there is some level of responsibility on his (the DA's) part.

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 01:32 AM
I'll not quibble. Raykovitz allowed Sandusky access to Second Mile children for six years, although he knew. Penn State sold forty acres of land to Sandusky's Second Mile for the project at a very nice price, although they knew. Corbett funded Sandusky's Second Mile "dream project" to the tune of $3,000,000 taxpayer dollars, although he knew.

It would appear that from The Second Mile to the halls of Penn State to the governor's office, they all knew.
Corbett only became the governor in January 2011. It cannot be assumed that the previous governor had any knowledge of Sandusky as he was not the Attorney General like Corbett and therefore, privy to such info.

Dr.Fessel
11-17-2011, 01:36 AM
Penn State has always wanted to play the public/private game to its advantage. For example, Spanier has argued salary information should not be public yet as we see with the recent information about Jerry Sandusky’s pension, Penn State employees are eligible to participate in public retirement systems. This makes it difficult for the university to argue it should not be subject to public access laws.

Penn State also would be in good company. Many colleges and universities nationwide operate just fine being subject to open-records laws. In Pennsylvania, all the universities in the State System of Higher Education such as Millersville and Shippensburg are subject to the Right to Know Law. http://www.pennlive.com/editorials/index.ssf/2011/11/right_to_know_law_psu_shouldnt.html

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 01:46 AM
Penn State has always wanted to play the public/private game to its advantage. For example, Spanier has argued salary information should not be public yet as we see with the recent information about Jerry Sandusky’s pension, Penn State employees are eligible to participate in public retirement systems. This makes it difficult for the university to argue it should not be subject to public access laws.

Penn State also would be in good company. Many colleges and universities nationwide operate just fine being subject to open-records laws. In Pennsylvania, all the universities in the State System of Higher Education such as Millersville and Shippensburg are subject to the Right to Know Law. http://www.pennlive.com/editorials/index.ssf/2011/11/right_to_know_law_psu_shouldnt.html
BBM
The bbm statement is not true. There are numerous state universities that are exempt from the Right to Know Law. The University of Pittsburgh, Temple University, Lincoln University are a few examples that are exempt. This exemption was not created just for Penn State.

The Pennsylvania Right-to-Know Law excludes state-related universities from the Commonwealth agencies and State-affiliated entities that are subject to broad open records requirements.
http://www.ogc.pitt.edu/faq.html
http://www.openrecordspa.org/rtk.html

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 01:47 AM
Did anyone else see the Piers Morgan show tonight? The subject of the segment was The Second Mile's fundraising abilities during the time of the grand jury investigation.

Piers interviewed Tracy Bell from the Family Clothesline. I wasn't really paying too much attention until she said someone from her organization (I think it was her boss) asked someone at The Second Mile (this past summer) whether or not there was an investigation going on and the person at TSM denied it. This would have been during the time the investigation was well underway. Piers asked her for the name of the person but she said she wasn't at liberty to say.

The entire segment was rather awkward - especially at the end when Ms. Bell held up a T-Shirt and asked for donations for the (much stammering and I do mean STAMMERING) victims and then she stammered some more and finally got out "the alleged victims."



Hopefully a video of it will show up on YouTube.

wfgodot
11-17-2011, 01:53 AM
Corbett only became the governor in January 2011. It cannot be assumed that the previous governor had any knowledge of Sandusky as he was not the Attorney General like Corbett and therefore, privy to such info.

Agreed. Former Governor Rendell supported Paterno's firing, even though


The ex-governor noted he has a close personal relationship with Paterno, and that the two would call each other from time to time during his administration to buck each others' spirits up when things were rough.

pennlive.com (http://bit.ly/t9KJtZ)

A bit unfortunate that the talk apparently never turned to Sandusky and Second Mile, then. I'd be interested to find out who pitched the project to Gov. Rendell in the first place.

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 02:01 AM
Here's a better explanation of the charity's donors story:



Charity's Donors Kept in Dark About Penn State Sex Abuse Investigation

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/11/16/exclusive-charitys-donors-kept-in-dark-about-penn-state-sex-abuse-investigation/#ixzz1dwK16MZB

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 02:04 AM
Former Governor Rendell supported Paterno's firing, even though



A bit unfortunate that the talk apparently never turned to Sandusky and Second Mile, then. I'd be interested to find out who pitched the project to Gov. Rendell in the first place.
Rendell is an ivy league graduate from a family with great wealth and is a staunch Democrat. Paterno was raised a poor boy in Brooklyn and is a staunch Republican. For these reasons, it is suspect that they chatted very often or if they chatted at all.

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 02:04 AM
DePasquale calls for special investigator on PSU scandal

DePasquale said Wednesday he was hoping the university's board of trustees would "do a real investigation," but then the school chose someone from its own board to lead the effort.

He said the scope of inquiry would include the board of trustees, the state's Office of Attorney General and its handling of the Sandusky investigation both while Corbett was Attorney General and since Linda Kelly took over after Corbett became governor.

More:

http://www.yorkdispatch.com/news/ci_19351925

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 02:25 AM
Also:

Nov 17, 2011 - Altoona Mirror

The Second Mile evaluating future

http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/content.detail/id/555511/The-Second-Mile-evaluating-future.html?nav=742

Dr.Fessel
11-17-2011, 02:26 AM
Penn State has always wanted to play the public/private game to its advantage. For example, Spanier has argued salary information should not be public yet as we see with the recent information about Jerry Sandusky’s pension, Penn State employees are eligible to participate in public retirement systems. This makes it difficult for the university to argue it should not be subject to public access laws.

Penn State also would be in good company. Many colleges and universities nationwide operate just fine being subject to open-records laws. In Pennsylvania, all the universities in the State System of Higher Education such as Millersville and Shippensburg are subject to the Right to Know Law. http://www.pennlive.com/editorials/index.ssf/2011/11/right_to_know_law_psu_shouldnt.html


BBM
The bbm statement is not true. There are numerous state universities that are exempt from the Right to Know Law. The University of Pittsburgh, Temple University, Lincoln University are a few examples that are exempt. This exemption was not created just for Penn State.

The Pennsylvania Right-to-Know Law excludes state-related universities from the Commonwealth agencies and State-affiliated entities that are subject to broad open records requirements.
http://www.ogc.pitt.edu/faq.html
http://www.openrecordspa.org/rtk.html

I believe that statement is true. They make the distinction just like you did between State Schools and State-Related Schools in the article.

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 02:31 AM
I just did an archive search of Raykovitz' name and found this April 15, 2011 entry from the Centre Daily.

It's a letter, I'm assuming to the editor, signed by Marc McCann and Katherine Genovese (The Second Mile) referencing recent allegations about Jerry Sandusky.


A snippet of the letter:


A recent CDT article indicated that The Second Mile’s president and CEO Jack Raykovitz made “no comment” to questions about an investigation of Jerry Sandusky, and a recent letter to the editor described The Second Mile’s response to the allegations about Sandusky as “silence.” That description is, indeed, accurate.

Some are trying to ascribe meaning to or hypothesize about our silence or lack of comment.



More:

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/04/15/2650820/confidentiality-paramount.html

essies
11-17-2011, 02:46 AM
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2011/11/16/exp-ac-searching-for-answers-at-senn-state.cnn
Video: Searching for answers at Penn State
CNN's Drew Griffin tried to talk to the officials who should have known about the 1998 allegations against Sandusky.

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 03:01 AM
Very revealing article from The Patriot News:


The Second Mile and Penn State were locked in an embrace so tight that the fate of one inevitably impacts the other.

When Sandusky announced his retirement in 1999, saying he wanted to spend more time with The Second Mile, Paterno called him "a person of great character and integrity." That’s all the validation many people needed....


ESPN commentator Jon Ritchie, who did not attend Penn State but knew Sandusky well, said he would go to Second Mile benefits and speak. "Every time I was up there, I was just pouring out the way that I felt about Jerry," Ritchie said recently on ESPN. "My reality was that Jerry Sandusky was Mother Teresa."


More
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/patriot-news_special_report_th.html

essies
11-17-2011, 03:21 AM
Special Report: Scandal. Shame. A search for answers at Penn State.
This story appears in the Nov. 21, 2011 issue of Sports Illustrated.
snip-
In an eerie twist, the local prosecutor at the time, Ray Gricar, disappeared in 2005. His laptop and hard drive were recovered from the Susquehanna River, irretrievably damaged, and his body was never found. It made for hot conspiracy theories last week. Contacted by SI, Tony Gricar, Ray's nephew and the family's spokesman, would not dismiss anything out of hand. He said that while his uncle was indifferent to the football program, he knew he would need an airtight case. "There [were] far-reaching consequences for Ray bringing a case against Sandusky," Tony Gricar said. Borrowing a line from The Wire, he added, "You come at the king, you best not miss."
Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/magazine/11/16/penn.st/index.html#ixzz1dwdt1YgV

Dr.Fessel
11-17-2011, 03:30 AM
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2011/11/16/exp-ac-searching-for-answers-at-senn-state.cnn
Video: Searching for answers at Penn State
CNN's Drew Griffin tried to talk to the officials who should have known about the 1998 allegations against Sandusky. That is funny, the fired president of the school is still living in the school mansion. :floorlaugh:

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 03:33 AM
That is funny, the fired president of the school is still living in the school mansion. :floorlaugh:

And he's still a tenured professor at Penn State.

ThoughtFox
11-17-2011, 04:17 AM
Very revealing article from The Patriot News:

More
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/patriot-news_special_report_th.html

Thanks for the link ~ I had seen a hint about this land deal in a comment somewhere, so I'm glad we have an MSM article about it now:

In 2002 — the same year the university barred Sandusky from bringing boys to the locker rooms — it sold 40 acres of land to The Second Mile to build a "Center for Excellence."

According to the Centre Daily Times, the charity was allowed to purchase the land for "$151,500 less than a Pittsburgh man paid for it in 1990" — and $15,470 less than the deed says Penn State paid for it in 1999.

University officials contend the deed is inaccurate, and that they sold the property to The Second Mile for the same price they paid for it.

Either way, Penn State strengthened its "brand" through Second Mile programs and events. The Nittany Lion mascot in the Second Mile T-shirt was a regular feature — both at fundraisers and at programs for the children.

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 04:28 AM
Special Report: Scandal. Shame. A search for answers at Penn State.
This story appears in the Nov. 21, 2011 issue of Sports Illustrated.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/magazine/11/16/penn.st/index.html#ixzz1dwdt1YgV

Thanks for the link.

Mary Gage, quoted in the article, sums it up perfectly with one concise sentence:

"It's amazing to think what one man can do to a whole heroic institution if the reaction is faulty."

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 04:36 AM
Jerry Sandusky Penn State sex abuse case eerily similar to Timothy Bagshaw boy scout case three decades prior


(snippet)

Polo and his family remember a lawyer who they believe was Joseph Amendola, the same attorney now representing Sandusky, representing Bagshaw. http://i.imgur.com/G1DMu.gif

The charges against Bagshaw stemmed from several incidents while Bagshaw led Troop 361, about 30 boys, on several camping trips in late 1983 and early 1984. Bagshaw died in 1994 at 40 former Huntingdon, Pa. police officer in the mid-‘70s . The Bagshaw case remains under seal in Centre County Court records, since the case involved juveniles.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-team/jerry-sandusky-penn-state-sex-abuse-case-eerily-similar-timothy-bagshaw-boy-scout-case-decades-prior-article-1.978901#ixzz1dwvafLRd




BBM

essies
11-17-2011, 04:57 AM
Lawyer: Client ready to testify against Sandusky
By MARK SCOLFORO, MARYCLAIRE DALE and GENARO C. ARMAS
snip-

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. (AP) -- A lawyer said Wednesday that his client will testify that he was sexually abused by former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky, and Pennsylvania state lawmakers are starting to plan for a special commission that will examine the legal issues raised by the child sex-abuse scandal.

Harrisburg attorney Ben Andreozzi said he represents a client who will testify against Sandusky, who is accused of abusing eight boys, some on campus, over 15 years.

"I am appalled by the fact that Mr. Sandusky has elected to re-victimize these young men at a time when they should be healing," Andreozzi said, in a statement released by his office. "He fully intends to testify that he was severely sexually assaulted by Mr. Sandusky."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FBC_PENN_STATE_ABUSE?SITE=AZYUM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-11-17-03-02-12

essies
11-17-2011, 05:05 AM
Corbett says Sandusky case moved as quickly as possible

By John P. Martin and Jeremy Roebuck
snip-
Gov. Corbett said Wednesday the three-year investigation that led to child-rape charges against former football coach Jerry Sandusky moved "as quickly as it possibly could" and dismissed as misinformed any suggestion that law enforcement officials may have left a potential predator unchecked.
approve.

"The investigation moved as quickly as it possibly could," the governor told reporters during a visit to a Northeast Philadelphia charter school. "If, during the time that I was in office, we could have been in a position to make an arrest, we would have made an arrest."
Corbett spoke as the spotlight in the still-unfolding case shifted from Sandusky's alleged abuse to the people and institutions that may have had a chance to expose or stop it.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20111117_Corbett_says_Sandusky_case_moved_as_quick ly_as_possible.html?viewAll=y

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 05:08 AM
Published: Thursday, November 17, 2011, 2:00 AM

Exclusive: Jerry Sandusky interview prompts long-ago victims to contact lawyer

Jerry Sandusky’s primetime television interview Monday led several potential victims to come forward and consider sharing their story, according to two State College attorneys.

Hearing his voice and his words proclaiming no wrong — while admitting he showered innocently with young boys — was a trigger for some who say they were abused by the former Penn State defensive coordinator. One said it went back to the 1970s, around the time Sandusky founded the charity that prosecutors say was his axis for finding victims.

All -
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/exclusive_jerry_sandusky_inter.html?utm_source=dlv r.it&utm_medium=twitter

essies
11-17-2011, 05:32 AM
BobsBlitz.com ~ Kim Jones on Penn State's Jerry Sandusky, Joe Paterno Disgrace [Audio] - YouTube
(Nov. 7,2011) on Mike Francesa's Football Sunday show, Michael reacted in real time to the disgusting Jerry Sandusky Penn State sexual abuse charges. It was great radio with Francesa 'connecting the dots' before arriving at the point where he called out Joe Paterno. His producer did a terrible job following the analysis. Both WFAN and YES Network's website had audio from the show up later that afternoon...of Mike with Phil Simms. Bad job.

Kim Jones graduated from Penn State with a B.A. in journalism and an M.S. in exercise and sport science. The 42-year-old clubhouse reporter for New York Yankees appeared on the Penn State radio program Let's Talk Penn State, was a beat writer for the Nittany Lions, and is currently a member of the school's Sports Journalism Board.
Today, fighting a cold and later fighting back tears as the duo discussed child rape, Jones was at her best. The entire 30 minutes plus is well worth your time.
http://www.bobsblitz.com/2011/11/coverage-of-penn-state-rape-scandal-can.html

BrownRice
11-17-2011, 07:25 AM
Why oh Why would you take on a high profile case, defending an accused child predator, when you have such skeletons in your closet? Why? That just can't be smart :waitasec:

Salem

Well, why would you allow your client to call into the Bob Costas show either? Not very smart at all. I'm not an atty, but I could use the experience from my business law classes in college and do a better job than him.

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 09:09 AM
That is funny, the fired president of the school is still living in the school mansion. :floorlaugh:
Uh...When they video was recorded, Sandier had only been fired for 7 days. Should he have moved all his furniture/belongings onto the front lawn on the day he was fired?

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 09:25 AM
And he's still a tenured professor at Penn State.
He will be removed for his egregious behavior, but expecting this to occur in 7 days is unrealistic. Revocation of tenure is a tedious procedure at EVERY university. There must be tenure revocation hearings which follow the university’s written policies.

believe09
11-17-2011, 09:43 AM
Judge removed, Senior Judge takes over (http://news.yahoo.com/judge-named-penn-state-scandal-amid-conflict-reports-212332719.html)

I am certain this is already on the threads...good to know things are moving along as expected. I am still betting on Sandusky being admitted some where for treatment, claiming he was sexually abused, claiming he has early onset of Alzheimer's, epilepsy, head trauma of some kind....

believe09
11-17-2011, 09:44 AM
He will be removed for his egregious behavior, but expecting this to occur in 7 days is unrealistic. Revocation of tenure is a tedious procedure at EVERY university. There must be tenure revocation hearings which follow the university’s written policies.

Stop being so reasonable, Pensfan :floorlaugh:

Yes, it would absolutely be unrealistic to remove all trace of this man in seven days.

What a mess.

essies
11-17-2011, 10:13 AM
TODAY Video Player

wfgodot
11-17-2011, 10:22 AM
Exslusive: Jerry Sandusky interview prompts long-ago victims to contact lawyer (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/exclusive_jerry_sandusky_inter.html?utm_source=dlv r.it&utm_medium=twitter) (pennlive.com)

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. -- Jerry Sandusky’s primetime television interview Monday led several potential victims to come forward and consider sharing their story, according to two State College attorneys.

Hearing his voice and his words proclaiming no wrong — while admitting he showered innocently with young boys — was a trigger for some who say they were abused by the former Penn State defensive coordinator. One said it went back to the 1970s, around the time Sandusky founded the charity that prosecutors say was his axis for finding victims.

“They’re literally processing it right in front of us,” attorney Andy Shubin said. “They have kept it from their families, moms, brothers and sisters. ... The folks we talked to are largely folks in their 20s, who in a lot of cases have never told their story before.”
---
more at link above

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 10:43 AM
Judge removed, Senior Judge takes over (http://news.yahoo.com/judge-named-penn-state-scandal-amid-conflict-reports-212332719.html)

I am certain this is already on the threads...good to know things are moving along as expected. I am still betting on Sandusky being admitted some where for treatment, claiming he was sexually abused, claiming he has early onset of Alzheimer's, epilepsy, head trauma of some kind....

Here are some reasons why I doubt this will happen:

Sandusky will likely not be able to find a facility that will admit him unless he states that he is also depressed/suicidal. Pedophilia is considered to be a incurable disorder by the vast majority of psychiatrists. There will be very few or zero mental health facilities and physicians that will want their name associated with attempting to cure Sandusky's incurable disorder (pedophilia).

In addition, he may be unwilling to state that he has any disorder because he is a narcissist and also a fixated pedophile. Narcissists refuse to admit that they are imperfect. Fixated pedophiles don't see anything wrong with their same-sex attraction to children. They only consider themselves to be homosexual. (Homosexuals are attracted to adults not children. Sandusky is not a homosexual.)

He also demonstrated that he makes really stupid decisions regarding the seriousness of his upcoming trial. (He gave a tv interview that clarified to many people that he is disgusting. The interview is bringing forward other victims who were not previously known.)

believe09
11-17-2011, 10:57 AM
I will post the non salacious avatar of your choosing for 5 days if you are right, Pensfan.

The only reason I think he will capitulate to something that indicates his reasoning is flawed is that he stands to lose everything...I think once someone gets through to him, he will be willing to play ball.

I have an example: William Ayres has a thread here on WS. Ayres was charged with sexual abuse of the most incredibly at risk boys you can imagine-his reign of terror as a pediatric psychiatrist put him in contact with targeted victims from 1958-2007.

Ayres absolutely believed there was nothing wrong with what he did. He completely believed that he was beyond questioning-he even gave a publicized sexual developement class broadcast by PBS in the late 60's. If you were a slender, pre pubescent Jewish male, Ayres would subject you to prolonged physical examinations in his sound proof office that included digital penetration.

You got the fact that he was a pediatric psychiatrist, right?

Ayres went on trial in San Mateo County and finally agreed to an Alzheimer's defense-that he was mentally unfit to stand trial based upon this fact and he was just committed to a psychiatric equivelent of a "rest home." Mind you, there is video of Ayres joking with friends the night before the hearing about how an Alzheimer's defense will save you, but none the less...even with his fixation and his narcissism, he wasnt stupid.

waltzingmatilda
11-17-2011, 10:59 AM
http://www.wect.com/story/16059039/former-nhc-coach-ad-reflects-on-the-penn-state-scandal

"You don't never do anything to kids. I mean that's unbelievable," said Miller who understand the game changes a bit when you make it in big time athletics and college sports. "Then, it's all about winning."

OT
Pensfan, Thanks to you and all our PA sleuths for sharing your knowledge of PA, PSU and the Universities' procedures, etc. It is very helpful for those of us who aren't familiar with the area and history, and all the players in this mess.

ps I have a friend from Johnstown who attended Pitt and is a huge Pens fan! Being a southern girl, I wasn't familiar with hockey til I met her! Now I love watching it....:)

wm

Knot4u2no
11-17-2011, 11:01 AM
I have read some reports of second hand information and some reports of what victims will testify to, which would certainly be criminal, but I have not read about any first hand evidence. Jerry Sandusky definitely has problems with boundaries and age-inappropriate conduct. But, I have yet to hear/see anything that is proof of direct physical sexual violations of his victims. I did read about two people who said someone said they saw anal rape, and about someone who will be testifying to sexual assault, but I want more details about exactly what he did before I execute him. I am not in any way defending him, but I do want clarification about the specifics of his behavior ... don’t really care about his motivations. Playing with kids in the shower ... what kind of playing? Of course it’s inappropriate and aberrant, but is it rape/sodomy ... what was it? Is there direct evidence/testimony of oral sex, anal sex, masturbation, any penetration of any type? I want a little more clarification because I have met people/had clients who were very strange/inappropriate, but as far I or anyone else could tell, they did not have any direct sexual/physical contact with their “victims.” I once had a client who was considered to be a pedophile/necrophile, but he was and he wasn’t ... based on all the evidence, he never committed a sexual act on a child but he did organize “sports” for them to play and arranged things so the children had to undress, and kept detailed records of their activities. He also wrote to the parents of deceased children, asking for pictures and offering sympathy. He got lots of pictures of deceased children, and was fascinated by mortuaries and cemeteries. He was immune to any type of therapy, knew exactly what he was doing, and would do it all again, but he was apparently satisfied with the role playing and fantasy, never developing to a higher (lower) level of acting-out. Rare, but not impossible. What I’m saying is that showering and playing with children nude is not only suspect, it is abhorrent ... but I don’t know enough facts about this case to understand exactly what he did or determine what his actions constitute in terms of the law. This case has a lot of political/economic implications and, in some respects, reminds me of the initial wave of accusations against the Duke Lacrosse team. Could someone more informed than I please post links to the first hand information about Sandusky’s sex crimes?

Russell

believe09
11-17-2011, 11:07 AM
I have read some reports of second hand information and some reports of what victims will testify to, which would certainly be criminal, but I have not read about any first hand evidence. Jerry Sandusky definitely has problems with boundaries and age-inappropriate conduct. But, I have yet to hear/see anything that is proof of direct physical sexual violations of his victims. I did read about two people who said someone said they saw anal rape, and about someone who will be testifying to sexual assault, but I want more details about exactly what he did before I execute him. I am not in any way defending him, but I do want clarification about the specifics of his behavior ... don’t really care about his motivations. Playing with kids in the shower ... what kind of playing? Of course it’s inappropriate and aberrant, but is it rape/sodomy ... what was it? Is there direct evidence/testimony of oral sex, anal sex, masturbation, any penetration of any type? I want a little more clarification because I have met people/had clients who were very strange/inappropriate, but as far I or anyone else could tell, they did not have any direct sexual/physical contact with their “victims.” I once had a client who was considered to be a pedophile/necrophile, but he was and he wasn’t ... based on all the evidence, he never committed a sexual act on a child but he did organize “sports” for them to play and arranged things so the children had to undress, and kept detailed records of their activities. He also wrote to the parents of deceased children, asking for pictures and offering sympathy. He got lots of pictures of deceased children, and was fascinated by mortuaries and cemeteries. He was immune to any type of therapy, knew exactly what he was doing, and would do it all again, but he was apparently satisfied with the role playing and fantasy, never developing to a higher (lower) level of acting-out. Rare, but not impossible. What I’m saying is that showering and playing with children nude is not only suspect, it is abhorrent ... but I don’t know enough facts about this case to understand exactly what he did or determine what his actions constitute in terms of the law. This case has a lot of political/economic implications and, in some respects, reminds me of the initial wave of accusations against the Duke Lacrosse team. Could someone more informed than I please post links to the first hand information about Sandusky’s sex crimes?

Russell

You mean other than the grand jury testimony of the victims and the grand jury testimony of the witnesses to the sex acts and the interviews of the mother of a victim who busted Sandusky with LE listening on extentions?

Are you looking for medical reports? I am not sure what would constitute first hand knowlege, but I want to be helpful. Have you had a chance to read the grand jury indictment?

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 11:08 AM
I will post the non salacious avatar of your choosing for 5 days if you are right, Pensfan.

The only reason I think he will capitulate to something that indicates his reasoning is flawed is that he stands to lose everything...I think once someone gets through to him, he will be willing to play ball.

I have an example: William Ayres has a thread here on WS. Ayres was charged with sexual abuse of the most incredibly at risk boys you can imagine-his reign of terror as a pediatric psychiatrist put him in contact with targeted victims from 1958-2007.

Ayres absolutely believed there was nothing wrong with what he did. He completely believed that he was beyond questioning-he even gave a publicized sexual developement class broadcast by PBS in the late 60's. If you were a slender, pre pubescent Jewish male, Ayres would subject you to prolonged physical examinations in his sound proof office that included digital penetration.

You got the fact that he was a pediatric psychiatrist, right?

Ayres went on trial in San Mateo County and finally agreed to an Alzheimer's defense-that he was mentally unfit to stand trial based upon this fact and he was just committed to a psychiatric equivelent of a "rest home." Mind you, there is video of Ayres joking with friends the night before the hearing about how an Alzheimer's defense will save you, but none the less...even with his fixation and his narcissism, he wasnt stupid.
LOL about the avatar.

The city where Sandusky's (first?) trial will occur is located in rural farmland. As university employees will likely be excluded from being on the jury, it is very unlikely that the selected jurors will be similar to Casey Anthony's jurors. I hope this will brighten your day after thinking about such putrid predators. :)

believe09
11-17-2011, 11:11 AM
You are a comfort Pensfan.

essies
11-17-2011, 11:25 AM
Perhaps one day Jerry will become a resident here-
http://documentaryheaven.com/louis-theroux-a-place-for-paedophiles/
Here's a preview-
Louis Theroux: A Place for Paedophiles - Preview - YouTube

waltzingmatilda
11-17-2011, 11:27 AM
Hi Knot! Here's a link to the GJ findings. It's a good place to start, IMO. I have it saved because, as painful as it is, I need to refer to it in order to keep the alledged victims straight. My apologies if you've already read it.

GRAPHIC CONTENT

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/Presentment.pdf

Then there's the interview with Bob Costas on ROCK Center past Monday night. JS admits he touched them on the leg, he showered with them, he engaged in 'horseplay' with them, he admits to slapping with towels. IMO, the man has a huge creep factor. I have a son, now grown, who was involved in sports, scouts and every activity he could talk me into allowing. I would be absolutely mortified if I learned an adult male showered naked with my son and engaged in slapping towels! My mama grizzly instinct would set in and I would want to rip somebody's head off and spit in their neck for overstepping those boundaries with my baby! GRR! (I am not growling at you, Knot. It's just my disgust with these allegations as a mother that I growl about) MOO

Good reading you again!

wm

ScorpRising
11-17-2011, 11:33 AM
Hi Knot! Here's a link to the GJ findings. It's a good place to start, IMO. I have it saved because, as painful as it is, I need to refer to it in order to keep the alledged victims straight. My apologies if you've already read it.



Snipped by me.

Thanks for saying that. I was pulling something off my flash drive for a friend the other night when he questioned my keeping the gj report with me at all times. Disgusting, but a necessity to remember the focus and scope.

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 11:33 AM
You are a comfort Pensfan.
His jurors, with the university employees excluded, will consist of farmers, men who drive pickups with a gun racks, and women who know 1000 different recipes for deer meat. They won't like Sandusky....at all. :D

ThoughtFox
11-17-2011, 11:37 AM
What I’m saying is that showering and playing with children nude is not only suspect, it is abhorrent ... but I don’t know enough facts about this case to understand exactly what he did or determine what his actions constitute in terms of the law. This case has a lot of political/economic implications and, in some respects, reminds me of the initial wave of accusations against the Duke Lacrosse team. Could someone more informed than I please post links to the first hand information about Sandusky’s sex crimes?

Russell

The law assumes that adults who supervise children are not going to act in a predatory manner, and should always have the best welfare of the child in their mind. That's the social responsibility that everyone has, but it's even more important with someone who is a coach and who runs a charity for underprivileged children.

Sandusky has admitted to showering with young children because he "enjoyed their company." Was that in their best interest, or was he just trying to sexually arouse them with nudity or more? That's how the law views this, and they don't really care how Sandusky felt about it because the laws are there to protect children, not a fifty year old man who wants to have his way with them.

Talking to minor children about sex to arouse them, or showing them porn is considered "corruption of a minor." That's crossing a line right there.

Exposing himself to an innocent child is a serious enough offense, and it's called "indecent exposure." It doesn't matter how he feels about it or how he defines his showering activities, or how they view it in other countries, or why he chose to do it psychologically - the law looks at it differently.

Touching multiple children sexually over many years, which he has never actually denied to my knowledge, is another offense that might get him put on a sex offender list. A child cannot consent to sex with an adult, and the law assumes that anyone who tries to have sex with a ten-year-old is assaulting them. It's rape.

From the Attorney General Press Release:

Sandusky is charged with the following offenses:

•Seven counts of involuntary deviate sexual intercourse, all first-degree felonies which are each punishable by up to 20 years in prison and a $25,000 fine.
•One count of aggravated indecent assault, a second-degree felony punishable by up to ten years in prison and a $25,000 fine.
•Four counts of unlawful contact with a minor, all first-degree felonies which are each punishable by up to 20 years in prison and a $25,000 fine.
•Four counts of unlawful contact with a minor, all third-degree felonies which are each punishable by up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.
•Four counts of endangering the welfare of a child, all third-degree felonies which are each punishable by up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.
•Four counts of endangering the welfare of a child, all first-degree misdemeanors which are each punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.
•Eight counts of corruption of minors, all first-degree misdemeanors which are each punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.
•One count of indecent assault, a third-degree felony punishable by up to seven years in prison and a $15,000 fine.
•Four counts of indecent assault, all second-degree misdemeanors which are each punishable by up to two years in prison and a $5,000 fine.
•Two counts of indecent assault, all first-degree misdemeanors which are each punishable by up to five years in prison and a $10,000 fine.
•One count of attempt to commit indecent assault, a second-degree misdemeanor punishable by up to two years in prison and a $5,000 fine.

ThoughtFox
11-17-2011, 11:40 AM
His jurors, with the university employees excluded, will consist of farmers, men who drive pickups with a gun racks, and women who know 1000 different recipes for deer meat. They won't like Sandusky....at all. :D

You know what? I misunderstood your previous post! :blushing: So I deleted my response ~ sorry Pensfan! I thought you were saying that the jurors were going to be too much like the Casey Anthony jury (not our favorite people).

Cheyne
11-17-2011, 11:57 AM
My husband and I are farmers. We don't drive around with a gun rack in our pick-up, but I do know about 50 recipes for deer meat (and pheasant, elk, squirrel, rabbit). :D

Having farmers and farmers wives, or basically rural people on a jury, is to have people with common sense on your jury. People who understand nature and the affect she has on our everyday lives. People with patience, after all-it takes 3 seasons on a farm to grow and harvest one crop. People with a can-do attitude. And finally people who are willing to roll up their sleeves, do without, and get the work done.

If these are the type of people that will be the jurors for the Sandusky trial, I believe a fair trial will ensue. If the evidence is there, he will be convicted, no doubt in my mind. We farmers also believe that what you sow is what you reap, and we have no issue with people paying for their crimes.

(This is my opinion as a farmer and someone who knows many other farmers/rural people)

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 12:10 PM
Snipped by me.

Thanks for saying that. I was pulling something off my flash drive for a friend the other night when he questioned my keeping the gj report with me at all times. Disgusting, but a necessity to remember the focus and scope.

I understand completely. :yes:

I have accumulated hundreds of screenshots over the years because so much of this stuff has a tendency to just disappear from the internet. Ironically enough, Joe Amendola made national news for trying to be the facilitator of such disappearances -- which makes this case even more interesting, at least to me, on so many levels.

ScorpRising
11-17-2011, 12:10 PM
His jurors, with the university employees excluded, will consist of farmers, men who drive pickups with a gun racks, and women who know 1000 different recipes for deer meat. They won't like Sandusky....at all. :D

ITA there'll be no love lost toward Sandusky.

Also, eliminate the Amish from the jury pool...

Concerned Papa
11-17-2011, 12:24 PM
My husband and I are farmers. We don't drive around with a gun rack in our pick-up, but I do know about 50 recipes for deer meat (and pheasant, elk, squirrel, rabbit). :D

Having farmers and farmers wives, or basically rural people on a jury, is to have people with common sense on your jury. People who understand nature and the affect she has on our everyday lives. People with patience, after all-it takes 3 seasons on a farm to grow and harvest one crop. People with a can-do attitude. And finally people who are willing to roll up their sleeves, do without, and get the work done.

If these are the type of people that will be the jurors for the Sandusky trial, I believe a fair trial will ensue. If the evidence is there, he will be convicted, no doubt in my mind. We farmers also believe that what you sow is what you reap, and we have no issue with people paying for their crimes.

(This is my opinion as a farmer and someone who knows many other farmers/rural people)

I agree with every word of your post.

I was born and raised on a dairy farm seemingly in another galaxy, far, far away. To borrow the words from the song "Boondocks" by Little Big Town:


It's where I learned about living
It's where I learned about love
It's where I learned about working hard
And having a little was just enough

It's where I learned about Jesus
And knowing where I stand
You can take it or leave it
This is me, this is who I am

Thank You for a post that took me to another time and place.

HMSHood
11-17-2011, 12:24 PM
ITA there'll be no love lost toward Sandusky.

Also, eliminate the Amish from the jury pool...

Just curious, why eliminate Amish from the jury pool.

HMSHood
11-17-2011, 12:25 PM
You mean other than the grand jury testimony of the victims and the grand jury testimony of the witnesses to the sex acts and the interviews of the mother of a victim who busted Sandusky with LE listening on extentions?

Are you looking for medical reports? I am not sure what would constitute first hand knowlege, but I want to be helpful. Have you had a chance to read the grand jury indictment?

I read the first few part of the grand jury indictment and stopped because it is was horrifying. :furious:

alwaysonmymind
11-17-2011, 12:30 PM
Watching Fox News....
Reporting the break in this case leading to McQueary came from an online forum.

Interesting..... do we have more details?

ScorpRising
11-17-2011, 12:32 PM
Just curious, why eliminate Amish from the jury pool.

They do not participate in gov't or trials of any kind.

Snipped from a link because I can't find any actual "law"

An estimated 40,000 Amish live in Ohio, the most of any state, Second is Pennsylvania with about 34,000. Pennsylvania law does not grant an automatic exclusion to potential Amish jurors though there is mechanism for them to voice opposition to serving, said Art Heinz, a state court system spokesman.

believe09
11-17-2011, 12:33 PM
His jurors, with the university employees excluded, will consist of farmers, men who drive pickups with a gun racks, and women who know 1000 different recipes for deer meat. They won't like Sandusky....at all. :D


I only know two recipes for deer meat and I dont like him.

I wont speak for Pensfan, but I dont believe there was any sarcasm or denigrating statements there. I believe Pensfan was making a case for a common sense jury.

I think that is why there will be legal shenanigans to push this out...after all, victims like this who have the scabs picked off their wounds and who are facing the humiliating high profile pressure of a trial like this are likely to have some problems...

Victims who are out there-there is support available to you! Please make sure you reach out to all who love you as you move through this. You are strong in a 1000 ways where your perp is weak. :twocents:

waltzingmatilda
11-17-2011, 12:35 PM
Watching Fox News....
Reporting the break in this case leading to McQueary came from an online forum.

Interesting..... do we have more details?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45335880/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

wm:)

believe09
11-17-2011, 12:39 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45335880/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

wm:)

A shout out to those sharp folks-

Some housekeeping here-adding the tags helps people find this discussion when they are searching on the WWW.

Please, make the tags appropriate to the subject, and no expressions of violence...TIA.

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 12:43 PM
I just read this in the Sports Illustrated article essies posted the link to late last night:


Their domain is Happy Valley, and while it's the Happy that's stressed, the Valley is significant too. For a prominent university, Penn State is remarkably isolated, nestled in the hinterlands of Pennsylvania, six hours from the nearest conference rival and three hours from a major city.


I'm always so fascinated by places like this.

I knew little to nothing about Penn State until this past week and I really appreciate all the input (here) from people who know the area and culture.

This isolated, petrie dish environment seems to have been the perfect setting for Paterno's "Grand Experiment*."



*After the announcement of his hiring in 1966, Paterno set out to conduct what he called a "Grand Experiment" in melding athletics and academics in the collegiate environment, an idea that he had learned during his years at Brown. (wikipedia)

alwaysonmymind
11-17-2011, 12:44 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45335880/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

wm:)

Thank you wm.

Wow, the forum posters sleuthed McQueary out. That says a lot to me. Random people on the Internet had more concern for these children than anyone at Penn State.

Moo

Cheyne
11-17-2011, 12:46 PM
I only know two recipes for deer meat and I dont like him.

I wont speak for Pensfan, but I dont believe there was any sarcasm or denigrating statements there. I believe Pensfan was making a case for a common sense jury.

I think that is why there will be legal shenanigans to push this out...after all, victims like this who have the scabs picked off their wounds and who are facing the humiliating high profile pressure of a trial like this are likely to have some problems...

Victims who are out there-there is support available to you! Please make sure you reach out to all who love you as you move through this. You are strong in a 1000 ways where your perp is weak. :twocents:

No, I thank Pensfan for his/her thoughtful post. I am agreeing with Pensfan. I just made the joke (note the smiley face) about only knowing 50 recipes for deer meat. Sometimes it's difficult to get the "tone" of a post since the medium is the written word.

wfgodot
11-17-2011, 12:50 PM
Not a defense of McQueary's (in-) actions, but an attempt at understanding, from Jason Whitlock:

McQueary story says a lot about us (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/mike-mcqueary-what-angers-most-is-they-see-themselves-when-they-consider-his-actions-in-penn-state-sex-abuse-scandal-111711) (foxsports.com)

---
I don’t agree with or respect the choices McQueary made, especially his decision to remain at Penn State for the next decade. But I’m not so foolishly self-righteous that I believe I’m incapable of similar cowardice. I say that knowing I have a career resume filled with righteous decisions that jeopardized my career. But those decisions always came after some combination of deliberation, consideration and prayer.

Our most courageous and selfless decisions/actions are rarely instantaneous or instinctual.

In America, our instinct is to survive financially. We hate Mike McQueary because of what he and his decisions say about us.

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 12:56 PM
There was a comment on the MSNBC article (posted by waltzingmatilda) about Joe Paterno that piqued my curiosity.

This is the comment:

I tell a story. The old days when I first started to coach, I lived four blocks off the campus. We don't have a big house. We've been there for a long time, my wife and the kids. Well, the kids are all gone obviously. I used to get a telephone call from one of the campus cops would say, Hey, coach, you better come up here and get ahold of Mike. Too much to drink, making a lot of noise.

I'd go up at 2:00 in the morning, grab Mike, put him in bed, get him up at 5:00 in the morning, run his rear-end off for a week. You guys never heard about it.

I did a quick search and found the link (in case anyone else is interested):

http://nittanylionsden.com/2011-articles/july/big-ten-media-days-leaders-division-coaches-on-ohio-state-troubles.html



In retrospect, this is kind of an eye-opener:


Paterno: That's probably been something that I preach all the time to the staff. If somebody wants to horse around with something, or he suggests that maybe he wants something, walk away, walk away. That doesn't mean we've always walked away. I try to keep track of it. It's nice to know we haven't had a major violation. I'm proud of that. I'm not going around gloating about it.


BBM

waltzingmatilda
11-17-2011, 12:57 PM
A shout out to those sharp folks-

Some housekeeping here-adding the tags helps people find this discussion when they are searching on the WWW.

Please, make the tags appropriate to the subject, and no expressions of violence...TIA.

Thanks for the reminder, believe09! I tagged it ....internet post/Sandusky. Hope that's ok.

wm

Knot4u2no
11-17-2011, 12:58 PM
Hi Knot! Here's a link to the GJ findings. It's a good place to start, IMO. I have it saved because, as painful as it is, I need to refer to it in order to keep the alledged victims straight. My apologies if you've already read it.

GRAPHIC CONTENT

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/Presentment.pdf

Then there's the interview with Bob Costas on ROCK Center past Monday night. JS admits he touched them on the leg, he showered with them, he engaged in 'horseplay' with them, he admits to slapping with towels. IMO, the man has a huge creep factor. I have a son, now grown, who was involved in sports, scouts and every activity he could talk me into allowing. I would be absolutely mortified if I learned an adult male showered naked with my son and engaged in slapping towels! My mama grizzly instinct would set in and I would want to rip somebody's head off and spit in their neck for overstepping those boundaries with my baby! GRR! (I am not growling at you, Knot. It's just my disgust with these allegations as a mother that I growl about) MOO

Good reading you again!

wm

Thank you for the link ... I hadn't read it. That clears it up for me! Very clear and consistent patterns which can not be explained away.
Russell

MagnoliaMom
11-17-2011, 01:00 PM
http://deadspin.com/tom-corbett/


The surface donations are easy enough to count up. We've already covered that ground. But it's also worthwhile to look at how much money these people have donated to Corbett since 2003, when he first ran for public office. Same goes for how much money Corbett received from companies or people with strong ties to directors on the charity's boards. At the very least, even the indirect connections show, again, how influential and well-connected The Second Mile is.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/11/17/us-pennstate-merrill-idUSTRE7AF2UM20111117


"I'm still struggling with it," said one Northeast U.S. Merrill adviser, one of several brokers who said they were not authorized by the firm to speak on the matter. Another broker said he has had to field questions about the scandal from clients and colleagues.

Currently 326 Penn State alumni are employed at Merrill, according to Jeff Garis, director of the school's Bank of America Career Services Center. Most prominent is Andrew Sieg, president of Bank of America's retirement services business.


"It was not uncommon for them to pick football players for sales and trading, because they made a connection between athletic ability, leadership and sales," said Kline, who spent several years as an analyst at Merrill.

Sure are a lot of people being authorized not to speak.

essies
11-17-2011, 01:21 PM
Penn State Scandal: Mother of Sandusky's Adopted Son Speaks Out
By KEVIN DOLAK

Nov. 17, 2011

snip-

The birth mother of Jerry Sandusky's youngest adopted child has come forward saying she believes the former Penn State coach led her son on a path of self-destruction and that she contacted authorities years ago about her son's safety.

Debra Long told ABC News in an exclusive interview that sharing her now 33-year-old son Matt with Sandusky had been a nightmare after the coach became the boy's guardian via foster care in 1995. Long says that she watched as her child became enamored with the local hero and then increasingly frightened by Sandusky's behavior.

"It was Jerry Sandusky, you know? Any 10-year-old kid is going to be impressed by Penn State football," Long said. "And then it was the gifts. You know, money and clothing and whatever … It was as if Jerry owned Matthew."
http://a.abcnews.com/US/penn-state-scandal-mother-sanduskys-adopted-son-speaks/story?id=14970402

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 01:30 PM
I only know two recipes for deer meat and I dont like him.

I wont speak for Pensfan, but I dont believe there was any sarcasm or denigrating statements there. I believe Pensfan was making a case for a common sense jury.

I think that is why there will be legal shenanigans to push this out...after all, victims like this who have the scabs picked off their wounds and who are facing the humiliating high profile pressure of a trial like this are likely to have some problems...

Victims who are out there-there is support available to you! Please make sure you reach out to all who love you as you move through this. You are strong in a 1000 ways where your perp is weak. :twocents:

Thank you for understanding my previous post. It was not meant to be derogatory towards farmers and hunters. These are no-nonsense individuals that will not feel any sympathy for a large man who raped little boys.

I regret that I was unable to eat the 5 deers that have run in front of my Jeep and dh's over the years. My insurance company and I love deer hunters and wish there were many more in PA. :)

ThoughtFox
11-17-2011, 01:34 PM
Penn State Scandal: Mother of Sandusky's Adopted Son Speaks Out
By KEVIN DOLAK

Nov. 17, 2011
snip-

The birth mother of Jerry Sandusky's youngest adopted child has come forward saying she believes the former Penn State coach led her son on a path of self-destruction and that she contacted authorities years ago about her son's safety.

Debra Long told ABC News in an exclusive interview that sharing her now 33-year-old son Matt with Sandusky had been a nightmare after the coach became the boy's guardian via foster care in 1995. Long says that she watched as her child became enamored with the local hero and then increasingly frightened by Sandusky's behavior.

"It was Jerry Sandusky, you know? Any 10-year-old kid is going to be impressed by Penn State football," Long said. "And then it was the gifts. You know, money and clothing and whatever … It was as if Jerry owned Matthew."
http://a.abcnews.com/US/penn-state-scandal-mother-sanduskys-adopted-son-speaks/story?id=14970402

OMG ~ that implies that he did, indeed, "groom" his adopted foster children. :maddening:

I knew this stuff would come out. Having all these children in his home would have been too much temptation. *shudder*

ThoughtFox
11-17-2011, 01:39 PM
I'm confused by this new information regarding McQueary.

If he testified to a Grand Jury about this years ago, why did investigators have to meet with him in a parking lot to discuss what he saw with Sandusky? Is it because the testimony to the GJ was sealed?

It also seems to negate McQueary's assertion that he went to police back in the day. I think what most people are put out about is the fact that he never followed up when he realized that Sandusky was still around campus with children all the time, and still working with this charity. Talk about denial! It's like they had to drag it out of him last year.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45335880/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

The posting, on a forum where people chatted about Penn State athletics, allowed them to draw up a list of coaches likely to have seen something, which in turn led them to Penn State's wide receivers coach Mike McQueary.

Investigators set up a meeting in a parking lot a little over a year ago, the newspaper reported, at which McQueary unburdened himself about having witnessed a 10-year-old boy being raped by Sandusky in 2002.

wfgodot
11-17-2011, 01:52 PM
A breakdown of today's New York Times article:

New PSU Revelations: Message Board Rumors Led To McQueary; Victims Were
Reluctant To Come Forward; Documents Are Missing From Second Mile (http://deadspin.com/5860507/new-psu-revelations-message-boards-key-to-investigation-reluctant-victims-and-second-mile-has-missing-documents) (Deadspin)

The NYT article:

Inquiry Grew Into Concerns of a Cover-Up (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/sports/ncaafootball/internet-posting-helped-sandusky-investigators.html?_r=1)

concentric
11-17-2011, 01:55 PM
Someone brought up the subject of whether or not Sandusky had a "type" (I think it was on thread #2). From the article Dr. Fessel posted it would seem he did.


"He tended to choose white boys from homes where there was no father or some difficulty in the family, investigators said, and he drew them in with trips to games and expensive gifts like computers."

----------

I am that "someone." So thank you. This should be repeated.

waltzingmatilda
11-17-2011, 02:06 PM
Thank you for the link ... I hadn't read it. That clears it up for me! Very clear and consistent patterns which can not be explained away.
Russell

Yes, that was Mr wm's first comment after reading the GJ docs! He said clear and consistent patterns were established in the alleged victims' testimony.

JS 'cracking backs' of the alleged victims convinced Mr wm of the victims' credibility because, (his words) "how many kids would use the phrase "he cracked my back"?

wm

concentric
11-17-2011, 02:07 PM
I don't know McQueary, I don't have any ties to to Penn State or have any interest in football. I hope that McQueary was staying inside the program to try and monitor what Sandusky's activities were, so that eventually his observations and information could be passed on to investigators.

Otherwise, I think that he abandoned the children who were being abused.

essies
11-17-2011, 02:09 PM
Lawmaker calls for federal probe of Penn State scandal

By Brad Bumsted, TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, November 17, 2011
Last updated: 12:53 pm
snip-
HARRISBURG — An Allegheny County state House member today called for a federal investigation of the Penn State child abuse scandal.

Rep. Tony DeLuca, D-Penn Hills, said he is preparing a House resolution calling for the U.S. attorney's office and FBI to take over the probe.

DeLuca said there is a need for an independent investigation of former Penn State assistant coach Jerry Sandusky and of the state attorney general's investigation.

U.S. Attorney Peter Smith, the chief federal prosecutor in Central Pennsylvania, said in a statement earlier this week that the "extremely disturbing" allegations "mandate a thorough review of the facts and appropriate action by law enforcement at all levels." But a spokeswoman for the office declined comment on DeLuca's statement.


Read more: Lawmaker calls for federal probe of Penn State scandal - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/breaking/s_767828.html#ixzz1dzGRY3nH

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 02:11 PM
----------

I am that "someone." So thank you. This should be repeated.

You're welcome.

I think you may have made the comment on thread #2 (I should have gone back to find your screen name).

concentric
11-17-2011, 02:14 PM
I'm having difficulty in seeing if this is Sandusky in this "groundbreaking" photo. Go through the series of photos (they will automatically advance). There is one where everyone is holding a shovel of dirt.

http://www.psu.edu/catholic/

Steely Dan
11-17-2011, 02:17 PM
I'm not here to defend Mike McQueary, and I find the claim that he contacted the police to be coming a little late in the story. However, I think some understanding of college sports is necessary here.

Big time programs like Penn State, USC, Alabama etc. make a lot of money off of their football programs. Tickets, t-shirts, hats, back packs, window stickers, bowl game monies, donations etc. add up to a lot of money and prestige for the university. These are major cash cows.

I can't, off the top of my head, report any links for these thoughts, but I believe that it's pretty much accepted M.O. for most large college programs. If a girl is raped by a football player and reports it to police she is most likely to be overscrutinized by the campus police, the police and maybe even some of her friends. She faces a scarlet letter if she takes him to court and he can't play. So in addition to the normal BS a rape victim has to go through there is a lot of fear and peer pressure to just shut up about it. Also, in a football crazy town her chances of getting justice are slim. What girl wouldn't want to have sex with a star player?

When McQueary walked into that locker room and found Sandusky raping the child and stopped it and then went to Paterno the next day. I wouldn't be surprised if all involved knew that it was better for the university to shut up about it, do the minimum and move on.

If McQueary had pressed it he would have faced a huge PR machine that would have found something they could cling to, like he felt he wasn't promoted fast enough or some nonsense, and then turn it around on him. Sandusky is a saint, he set up this whole charity for kids and now this p-ant little grad assistant is trying to smear the character of someone who's devoted his entire life to children. The campus police and police would have said they "investigated" the incident and found it to be little more than what a grandfather interacting with a grandson might do. McQueary would have been forced to resign, another football program wouldn't have touched him and he'd be flippin burgers at McDonald's.

It's easy to say what he should have done after breaking the rape up but the big time football machines will run you over and ruin you if they think any part of the cash pie is in danger of being lost.

You see more guys being arrested in the NFL because they are on their own. The only one's who are culpable are them. They don't have a billion dollar PR machine backing them up, but they do have money people want. JMO

Concerned Papa
11-17-2011, 02:20 PM
Some investigators said they were convinced that the idea that Sandusky had an inappropriate interest in, and relationships with, young boys was a fairly widely held suspicion around and even outside Penn State's football program over the years.

"This was not the secret that they are trying to make out now," one person involved in the inquiry said.

http://deadspin.com/5860507/new-psu-revelations-message-boards-key-to-investigation-reluctant-victims-and-second-mile-has-missing-documents

I don't see how any who knew can look at themselves in the mirror.

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 02:36 PM
I'm confused by this new information regarding McQueary.

If he testified to a Grand Jury about this years ago, why did investigators have to meet with him in a parking lot to discuss what he saw with Sandusky? Is it because the testimony to the GJ was sealed?
[/url]



I was confused as well about that part of the NY Times article when I read it last night.

I just went back and read it again and even went back to reread the part Dr. Fessel included with his link here on the thread, thinking the NYT may have edited since the first edition/release (they hadn't).

Anyway, when I read it last night I got the impression McQueary had talked to investigators two different times, with the parking lot discussion (reminds me of an episode of The Sopranos) being the second meeting. I misread the word "there" for "then." (new glasses needed)

I don't know anything about grand jury proceedings but after reading through it again (three times) my impression is that there were investigators working the case during the entire time the grand jury was in session (IIRC, they opened the grand jury case in 2008).

Now, my impression is that they talked to him in the parking lot (based on the message board finding) in 2010 and then he ended up testifying in front of the grand jury following that meeting.

Camille
11-17-2011, 02:41 PM
I'm not understanding how Sandusky ended up fostering and then adopting this child. I mean I do understand it somewhat but then again it doesn't make much sense.


http://jezebel.com/5860473/how-jerry-sandusky-mentor-turned-a-quiet-kid-into-a-troubled-one

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 02:43 PM
I'm having difficulty in seeing if this is Sandusky in this "groundbreaking" photo. Go through the series of photos (they will automatically advance). There is one where everyone is holding a shovel of dirt.

http://www.psu.edu/catholic/

I think those are men of the cloth (other than the man on the far left).



http://i.imgur.com/Zwpu2.png

essies
11-17-2011, 02:44 PM
Is Penn State preparing PR counterattack to save image?
snip-
The plot in the Penn State child abuse sex scandal keeps getting thicker. Penn State's embattled board of trustees has enlisted crisis communications agency Ketchum in New York, according to Advertising Age.

The move indicates Penn State's shell-shocked trustees could finally be weighing a PR/media counterattack to try save the school's image following nearly two-weeks of frenzied press coverage about former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky allegedly raping and molesting young boys on campus.

The scandal has already cost former coach Joe Paterno and school president Graham Spanier their jobs. Executives at Ketchum did not return calls and emails seeking comment Thursday.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/11/is-penn-state-preparing-pr-counterattack-to-save-image-ketchum-joe-paterno-jerry-sandusky/1

Quiche
11-17-2011, 02:45 PM
Penn State Scandal: Mother of Sandusky's Adopted Son Speaks Out
By KEVIN DOLAK

Nov. 17, 2011

snip-

The birth mother of Jerry Sandusky's youngest adopted child has come forward saying she believes the former Penn State coach led her son on a path of self-destruction and that she contacted authorities years ago about her son's safety.

Debra Long told ABC News in an exclusive interview that sharing her now 33-year-old son Matt with Sandusky had been a nightmare after the coach became the boy's guardian via foster care in 1995. Long says that she watched as her child became enamored with the local hero and then increasingly frightened by Sandusky's behavior.

"It was Jerry Sandusky, you know? Any 10-year-old kid is going to be impressed by Penn State football," Long said. "And then it was the gifts. You know, money and clothing and whatever … It was as if Jerry owned Matthew."
http://a.abcnews.com/US/penn-state-scandal-mother-sanduskys-adopted-son-speaks/story?id=14970402


This interview left me wondering how many young boys were intentionally kept in the foster system to ensure continued alienation from their biological homes? This mother clearly felt her son was manipulated out of her protective arms so that Sandusky had continuous sway. And adopted at 18? That's pretty unusual, isn't it?

:banghead:

ThoughtFox
11-17-2011, 02:48 PM
*snip*

If McQueary had pressed it he would have faced a huge PR machine that would have found something they could cling to, like he felt he wasn't promoted fast enough or some nonsense, and then turn it around on him. Sandusky is a saint, he set up this whole charity for kids and now this p-ant little grad assistant is trying to smear the character of someone who's devoted his entire life to children. The campus police and police would have said they "investigated" the incident and found it to be little more than what a grandfather interacting with a grandson might do. McQueary would have been forced to resign, another football program wouldn't have touched him and he'd be flippin burgers at McDonald's.

It's easy to say what he should have done after breaking the rape up but the big time football machines will run you over and ruin you if they think any part of the cash pie is in danger of being lost.

You see more guys being arrested in the NFL because they are on their own. The only one's who are culpable are them. They don't have a billion dollar PR machine backing them up, but they do have money people want. JMO

Yeah, I think it's pretty bloody obvious in this case that money talked, and ethics/morals/courage walked.

As my old father used to say, there's no job so important that you can't walk away from it. If McQueary had left there after reporting Sandusky, he could have gotten a good job somewhere else, but it sounds as if this was his dream job and he just couldn't give it up. More's the pity.

It's true that McQueary could have clammed up like everyone else and refused to turn in a colleague, but that doesn't really make him admirable either.

Wise Old Owl
11-17-2011, 02:51 PM
This is going to be bigger than big. What I can hope for with this - is that FINALLY something will be done about "these creeps".

I have known for a long time that our education system is in trouble. These guys ARE EVERYWHERE! This one being a "beloved coach of a BIG 10 team with a history of charitable contributions" is what is making the media sit up and notice. Let's hope the population "notices" as well.

This is O/T but will supply facts to back-up my observations of what I stated above.

First - Barry Silver
He was a middle school teacher here in Broward county. He molested boys FOR YEARS - a lot of them were reported. But, only reported to school personnel - LE was NEVER called. Never. He was finally arrested in Hawaii for molesting boys in the resort's swimming pool (very brazen - iffen you ask me). End of story - he only got 5 years in prsion and is out now.
Here is a link to read Silver's story - direct, court documents. Start on page 4 of the PDF - Amended Administrative Complaint. You'll see that the "powers that be" here KNEW about this creep back in 1995!!!
http://www.myfloridateacher.com/discipline/icmsorders/045-2547-FO-091009132021.pdf

Second one:
I posted about this one when this story first broke. The pedophile was a science teacher and the principal of the school covered for this creep for years, all while little girls were being molested on campus. I attended a public meeting when this story broke as my son was enrolled in the school at the time.
This pdf is for the principal. He ended up retiring and lost his pension. He passed away in the last few years. The complaint starts on page 8.

http://www.myfloridateacher.com/discipline/icmsorders/978-2112-FO-042009114509.pdf

Funny, but the pedophile - I. Best is not listed as EVER being disciplined by the State Dept of Ed - not even a revocation of his license (although I imagine that court system did that when he was convicted of his crimes)

Once you read just these two cases - here in my little neck of the woods - can you imagine the number of cases out there, never reported, or covered up for years?

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 02:51 PM
I'm not understanding how Sandusky ended up fostering and then adopting this child. I mean I do understand it somewhat but then again it doesn't make much sense.


http://jezebel.com/5860473/how-jerry-sandusky-mentor-turned-a-quiet-kid-into-a-troubled-one

I think (but I'm not positive) that Matt's "story" is mentioned in Sandusky's book. In any case, a few days ago I read something about a letter as well as a sister named Kara.

A quick search just brought up a 2-hour old article from the DailyMail (UK).

Despite concerns about his safety, the boy reportedly wrote to probation officers saying he would rather stay with the Sanduskys then be placed in a different foster home.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2062785/Jerry-Sandusky-Lawyer-victim-says-client-WILL-testify-disgraced-coach.html#ixzz1dzRPsmsC



The article goes on to mention that Sandusky adopted him at age 18, which strikes me as odd.

octobermoon
11-17-2011, 03:01 PM
I can't think of a reason to legally adopt an adult. Unless in this case it is for hushing someone up. I hate this. :(

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 03:05 PM
CNN just ran a segment about silence in the locker room. The person being interviewed (might have been a player or former player - I was multi-tasking) said the secrecy is endemic in sports programs. (note, this is pretty loosely paraphrased).

Wise Old Owl
11-17-2011, 03:06 PM
I can't think of a reason to legally adopt an adult. Unless in this case it is for hushing someone up. I hate this. :(

That is EXACTLY why he was adopted at 18. Now that he is a "legal son", Sandusky had even more control over him and was able to "coach" him as to what he thought happened as opposed to what he KNEW happened.

I really wonder about Sandusky's wife. We've seen where SHE attempted to contact one of the victims. WHY? Why would she want to talk to him? Or, is it a case of where Sandusky has such total and complete control over everyone that HE made her call the victim to see if she could get him on the phone? What did Mrs. Sandusky KNOW and WHEN did she know it?

JMHO

essies
11-17-2011, 03:06 PM
TODAY Video Player

Quiche
11-17-2011, 03:08 PM
I'm not here to defend Mike McQueary, and I find the claim that he contacted the police to be coming a little late in the story. However, I think some understanding of college sports is necessary here.

Big time programs like Penn State, USC, Alabama etc. make a lot of money off of their football programs. Tickets, t-shirts, hats, back packs, window stickers, bowl game monies, donations etc. add up to a lot of money and prestige for the university. These are major cash cows.

I can't, off the top of my head, report any links for these thoughts, but I believe that it's pretty much accepted M.O. for most large college programs. If a girl is raped by a football player and reports it to police she is most likely to be overscrutinized by the campus police, the police and maybe even some of her friends. She faces a scarlet letter if she takes him to court and he can't play. So in addition to the normal BS a rape victim has to go through there is a lot of fear and peer pressure to just shut up about it. Also, in a football crazy town her chances of getting justice are slim. What girl wouldn't want to have sex with a star player?

When McQueary walked into that locker room and found Sandusky raping the child and stopped it and then went to Paterno the next day. I wouldn't be surprised if all involved knew that it was better for the university to shut up about it, do the minimum and move on.

If McQueary had pressed it he would have faced a huge PR machine that would have found something they could cling to, like he felt he wasn't promoted fast enough or some nonsense, and then turn it around on him. Sandusky is a saint, he set up this whole charity for kids and now this p-ant little grad assistant is trying to smear the character of someone who's devoted his entire life to children. The campus police and police would have said they "investigated" the incident and found it to be little more than what a grandfather interacting with a grandson might do. McQueary would have been forced to resign, another football program wouldn't have touched him and he'd be flippin burgers at McDonald's.

It's easy to say what he should have done after breaking the rape up but the big time football machines will run you over and ruin you if they think any part of the cash pie is in danger of being lost.

You see more guys being arrested in the NFL because they are on their own. The only one's who are culpable are them. They don't have a billion dollar PR machine backing them up, but they do have money people want. JMO

Except his definition of stopping it had nothing to do with sparing that poor, traumatized, ten year old boy (who likely needed an emergency physician)! He did not interrupt the act, the crime! No one came to the aid of that boy, and as of today, that young victim has yet to be identified!!

There is no way on God's green earth I'm prepared to give McQueary a pass because it may have cause a bump in his career. Because really, we already know it DID cause a bump in his career-- UPWARDS. :furious:

Velouria
11-17-2011, 03:12 PM
Perhaps one day Jerry will become a resident here-
http://documentaryheaven.com/louis-theroux-a-place-for-paedophiles/
Here's a preview-
Louis Theroux: A Place for Paedophiles - Preview - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szWxdlHVI1w)'

I haven't had a chance to view the video yet essies, but with a name like "Louis Theroux" I had to wonder - is this place in France?After all, it worked for Roman Polanski. :furious:

Camille
11-17-2011, 03:13 PM
I think (but I'm not positive) that Matt's "story" is mentioned in Sandusky's book. In any case, a few days ago I read something about a letter as well as a sister named Kara.

A quick search just brought up a 2-hour old article from the DailyMail (UK).

Despite concerns about his safety, the boy reportedly wrote to probation officers saying he would rather stay with the Sanduskys then be placed in a different foster home.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2062785/Jerry-Sandusky-Lawyer-victim-says-client-WILL-testify-disgraced-coach.html#ixzz1dzRPsmsC



The article goes on to mention that Sandusky adopted him at age 18, which strikes me as odd.

OK so that article is a little more clear than what I have read so far. He started out going to the center because of Penn State football. It seems that from there he caught the attention of Sandusky and after spending a bit of time with him started getting into trouble and ended up in foster care and actually placed in Sandusky's home.


I don't understand why, if he was hiding from Sandusky when he came to get him before being placed in foster care that the visits continued though and how if he was so frightened by him that he was hiding he ended up in his care. Was the mother forcing him to go with Sandusky even though he was clearly frightened of him? Also I don't think that I have ever heard of a child being put in foster care just for getting in trouble one time.

I don't think that I trust this birth mother based upon what we have heard from her so far. I believe that it is inevitable that some people are going to try to capitalize on this whole nasty mess and I hope that we are not seeing this already.

Camille
11-17-2011, 03:18 PM
I can't think of a reason to legally adopt an adult. Unless in this case it is for hushing someone up. I hate this. :(


My father in law legally adopted my husband's step sister after she was in her 30s. She asked him to do so after coming to terms with some of the issues that contributed to severe anorexia.


At 18 the "child" would have to consent to the adoption.

essies
11-17-2011, 03:19 PM
'

I haven't had a chance to view the video yet essies, but with a name like "Louis Theroux" I had to wonder - is this place in France?After all, it worked for Roman Polanski. :furious:


Nope-It's California Velouria!!
Louis has gained access to Coalinga Mental Hospital in California, which houses more than 500 of the most disturbed criminals in America, convicted paedophiles. Most have already served lengthy prison sentences, but have been deemed unsafe for release. Instead, they have been sent here for an indefinite time.

Spending time with those undergoing treatment, Louis wrestles with whether he can ever allow himself to believe men whose whole history is defined by deception and deceit

Quiche
11-17-2011, 03:22 PM
OK so that article is a little more clear than what I have read so far. He started out going to the center because of Penn State football. It seems that from there he caught the attention of Sandusky and after spending a bit of time with him started getting into trouble and ended up in foster care and actually placed in Sandusky's home.


I don't understand why, if he was hiding from Sandusky when he came to get him before being placed in foster care that the visits continued though and how if he was so frightened by him that he was hiding he ended up in his care. Was the mother forcing him to go with Sandusky even though he was clearly frightened of him? Also I don't think that I have ever heard of a child being put in foster care just for getting in trouble one time.

I don't think that I trust this birth mother based upon what we have heard from her so far. I believe that it is inevitable that some people are going to try to capitalize on this whole nasty mess and I hope that we are not seeing this already.

I think it depends on who the family court judge was-- we've already witness cronyism in Sandusky's favor regarding his "bail", I think The Second Mile had much sway with the courts in the region.

And as far as this birth mother, she already explained that her child was being seduced with money, gifts, outings, clothes, all the things we've heard Sandusky utilizes to groom his victims. I believe her, and I am devastated for her.

MOO

essies
11-17-2011, 03:25 PM
TODAY Video Player
Not sure if this was posted-it's from yesterday.

octobermoon
11-17-2011, 03:27 PM
My father in law legally adopted my husband's step sister after she was in her 30s. She asked him to do so after coming to terms with some of the issues that contributed to severe anorexia.


At 18 the "child" would have to consent to the adoption.

Camille,
I guess I see that differently because of the connection of marriage to your SIL. My father's step father was my grandpa in every way a bio grandpa could have been and I would have loved for him to adopt us even as adults.

But this man (I use the term loosely) seemed to prey on little boys from broken families. And adopting an over age male just feels hinky to me. This is from what I have read so far.

Again just IMO

Velouria
11-17-2011, 03:32 PM
(photo/video mercifully snipped)
Not sure if this was posted-it's from yesterday.

Am I the only one who literally feels physically ill just looking at Sandusky? I can't even stand the sight of him. :sick:

essies
11-17-2011, 03:35 PM
Am I the only one who literally feels physically ill just looking at Sandusky? I can't even stand the sight of him. :sick:

ITA
The sight or sound of his voice either He makes my skin crawl!!:banghead:

Camille
11-17-2011, 03:40 PM
I think it depends on who the family court judge was-- we've already witness cronyism in Sandusky's favor regarding his "bail", I think The Second Mile had much sway with the courts in the region.

True, I wonder how it was presented that this child was in need of foster care after one episode with the law? I think that should be looked into.




And as far as this birth mother, she already explained that her child was being seduced with money, gifts, outings, clothes, all the things we've heard Sandusky utilizes to groom his victims. I believe her, and I am devastated for her.

MOO

The part that bothers me about the birth mother is bolded in this quote.

"She told the network: 'When it first started, you could see [Matthew] was excited to see Jerry show up. And then as it progressed it got to the point where he would look out the window and see Jerry pull in and hide behind the bedroom door - "mom, tell him I’m not here."'

Did she force the child to go with him at that point. Where did she go with this? With a child going from being so excited to be going with the man, all of the gifts that were being given and then hiding from him and telling her to tell him he wasn't there...? The way the article was written that was before he got in trouble and obviously it was before he was put in foster care. So she did have it within her power to say my son doesn't want to go with you anymore Mr Sandusky and so he longer will even if that was all that she did.


Edited to add I guess that I'm kind of wondering if she didn't just throw him to the sharks as a kid and now that all of this is coming out she's looking for a place in the spotlight.

Camille
11-17-2011, 03:46 PM
Am I the only one who literally feels physically ill just looking at Sandusky? I can't even stand the sight of him. :sick:


No you aren't the only one. I said earlier than if I saw that old interview with him without knowing what I know now he would still creep me out.

Steely Dan
11-17-2011, 03:47 PM
Yeah, I think it's pretty bloody obvious in this case that money talked, and ethics/morals/courage walked.

As my old father used to say, there's no job so important that you can't walk away from it. If McQueary had left there after reporting Sandusky, he could have gotten a good job somewhere else, but it sounds as if this was his dream job and he just couldn't give it up. More's the pity.

It's true that McQueary could have clammed up like everyone else and refused to turn in a colleague, but that doesn't really make him admirable either.

I'm not sure he could have gotten another football job. If other teams felt he wasn't trustworthy they'd stay away from him. I'm not excusing him, I'm just trying to add some perspective to the effed up nature of major college sports.

I'm sure this wasn't the first cover up McQueary had witnessed on campus and may have been privy to the aftermath of someone who'd tried to fight the system.


Except his definition of stopping it had nothing to do with sparing that poor, traumatized, ten year old boy (who likely needed an emergency physician)! He did not interrupt the act, the crime! No one came to the aid of that boy, and as of today, that young victim has yet to be identified!!

There is no way on God's green earth I'm prepared to give McQueary a pass because it may have cause a bump in his career. Because really, we already know it DID cause a bump in his career-- UPWARDS. :furious:

I'm not giving him one either. I think you missed this part of my post; I'm not here to defend Mike McQueary, and I find the claim that he contacted the police to be coming a little late in the story.

mahmoo
11-17-2011, 03:49 PM
the university supposedly banned Sandusky from bringing Second Mile boys into the football locker room, though a top official admitted the ban was "unenforceable." (http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/patriot-news_special_report_th.html)I've seen the above written in numerous articles since the Sandusky story broke and it perplexes me :waitasec:.....the bolded part in particular. I don't understand why Penn State was unable to "enforce" the ban??? It seems to me it would have been quite simple to prohibit Sandusky from using their facilities at all.

Camille
11-17-2011, 03:49 PM
Camille,
I guess I see that differently because of the connection of marriage to your SIL. My father's step father was my grandpa in every way a bio grandpa could have been and I would have loved for him to adopt us even as adults.

But this man (I use the term loosely) seemed to prey on little boys from broken families. And adopting an over age male just feels hinky to me. This is from what I have read so far.

Again just IMO

NP and I understand completely. I was just pointing out that there can be legitimate reasons although I don't think that this is one of those instances.

Wise Old Owl
11-17-2011, 03:49 PM
Anyone been watching that new TV show called "Grimm"?

Its about this guy finds out he's one of the last of the "Grimms" (as in Grimm's faily tales type stuff). He's a detective in LE and he can "see" the "true self" of the bad guys. They "morph" into whatever beings they truly are. Its been pretty good and I've tried to watch it every week.

Anyhoo, since this show started and once this case broke - whenever I see Sandusky, its almost like he "morphs into" his true self.

P.S. - really wish stuff like that happened and the world would get to see his true self and the face that all his victims got to see.

JMHO

Camille
11-17-2011, 03:54 PM
Anyhoo, since this show started and once this case broke - whenever I see Sandusky, its almost like he "morphs into" his true self.




His teeth freak me out. They all look pointy and feral.

I saw the first Grimm and I love it. :)

octobermoon
11-17-2011, 03:59 PM
Anyone been watching that new TV show called "Grimm"?

Its about this guy finds out he's one of the last of the "Grimms" (as in Grimm's faily tales type stuff). He's a detective in LE and he can "see" the "true self" of the bad guys. They "morph" into whatever beings they truly are. Its been pretty good and I've tried to watch it every week.

Anyhoo, since this show started and once this case broke - whenever I see Sandusky, its almost like he "morphs into" his true self.

P.S. - really wish stuff like that happened and the world would get to see his true self and the face that all his victims got to see.

JMHO


I have wanted to watch it, but it's on a night when the GS is here and I don't like him to see scary stuff on TV. Well unless Lon Cheney is in it 'cause that makes him laugh. :) I'll check online for it.

Back on topic, it is sad that so many adults felt something was wrong and looked the other way. :furious:

believe09
11-17-2011, 04:14 PM
Am I the only one who literally feels physically ill just looking at Sandusky? I can't even stand the sight of him. :sick:

I cant believe you just posted that-I am having the SAME problem.

HMSHood
11-17-2011, 04:27 PM
Is Penn State preparing PR counterattack to save image?
snip-
The plot in the Penn State child abuse sex scandal keeps getting thicker. Penn State's embattled board of trustees has enlisted crisis communications agency Ketchum in New York, according to Advertising Age.

The move indicates Penn State's shell-shocked trustees could finally be weighing a PR/media counterattack to try save the school's image following nearly two-weeks of frenzied press coverage about former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky allegedly raping and molesting young boys on campus.

The scandal has already cost former coach Joe Paterno and school president Graham Spanier their jobs. Executives at Ketchum did not return calls and emails seeking comment Thursday.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2011/11/is-penn-state-preparing-pr-counterattack-to-save-image-ketchum-joe-paterno-jerry-sandusky/1

"Penn State has not handled this well at all," says "The Reputation Doctor" Mike Paul of MGP & Associates PR. "Canceling (Paterno's press conference) made them look guilty in the court of of public opinion."

Penn State has become a sinking ship. Everything they did wrong, they did it. I have seen this pattern before and their reputation stays destroyed. It is in shambles.

HMSHood
11-17-2011, 04:35 PM
Report: Sandusky charity files missing
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Key-records-from-Jerry-Sandusky-charity-missing-in-Penn-State-sexual-abuse-case-111711

Important records from the charity founded by former Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky are missing and may have been stolen, The New York Times reported.

This sounds rather shady. Why are files now missing?

Quiche
11-17-2011, 04:36 PM
True, I wonder how it was presented that this child was in need of foster care after one episode with the law? I think that should be looked into.




The part that bothers me about the birth mother is bolded in this quote.

"She told the network: 'When it first started, you could see [Matthew] was excited to see Jerry show up. And then as it progressed it got to the point where he would look out the window and see Jerry pull in and hide behind the bedroom door - "mom, tell him I’m not here."'

Did she force the child to go with him at that point. Where did she go with this? With a child going from being so excited to be going with the man, all of the gifts that were being given and then hiding from him and telling her to tell him he wasn't there...? The way the article was written that was before he got in trouble and obviously it was before he was put in foster care. So she did have it within her power to say my son doesn't want to go with you anymore Mr Sandusky and so he longer will even if that was all that she did.


Edited to add I guess that I'm kind of wondering if she didn't just throw him to the sharks as a kid and now that all of this is coming out she's looking for a place in the spotlight.

I see where you are coming from, I guess I took her to mean that then the child would have a change of heart when Sandusky presented the new gift, or promise of a certain event, and so on. I'm sure she is positively tormented by her decisions during that time-- she gave him the benefit of the doubt where he own son was concerned. As did all his victims' mothers. It's horrific. imo

Dr.Fessel
11-17-2011, 04:39 PM
Report: Sandusky charity files missing
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Key-records-from-Jerry-Sandusky-charity-missing-in-Penn-State-sexual-abuse-case-111711

Important records from the charity founded by former Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky are missing and may have been stolen, The New York Times reported.

This sounds rather shady While are files now missing. My guess would be pay outs to victims or victim.

Quiche
11-17-2011, 04:43 PM
I'm not sure he could have gotten another football job. If other teams felt he wasn't trustworthy they'd stay away from him. I'm not excusing him, I'm just trying to add some perspective to the effed up nature of major college sports.

I'm sure this wasn't the first cover up McQueary had witnessed on campus and may have been privy to the aftermath of someone who'd tried to fight the system.



I'm not giving him one either. I think you missed this part of my post; I'm not here to defend Mike McQueary, and I find the claim that he contacted the police to be coming a little late in the story.

Gotcha.

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 04:46 PM
My guess would be pay outs to victims or victim.

I never even thought about that! One of the articles I read last night mentioned the calendar years that were missing (the early 2000s IIRC).

Suddenly I'm thinking about the kid in the shower (2002). And hush money. "We think we've found him and he'll tell a different story."

Camille
11-17-2011, 04:48 PM
I'm not giving him one either. I think you missed this part of my post; I'm not here to defend Mike McQueary, and I find the claim that he contacted the police to be coming a little late in the story.


Especially since the police dispute that he did. Honestly, given the circumstances and his reaction then and now and the public's reaction to him I hope that he is getting help in dealing with all of this. I think that of all the people involved he seems to be a risk for suicide. I really hope that he sees that he can redeem himself, at least some, by showing up to testify and doing so openly and honestly.

wfgodot
11-17-2011, 04:50 PM
Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports:

It’s time to stop deifying college coaches (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-wetzel_stop_deifying_coaches_krzyzewski_paterno111 711)

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 04:52 PM
From the link posted by HMSHood:


when they discovered that records from roughly 2000-2003 were missing.


Continuing with my wild speculation here...

One of the articles I posted last night spoke of The Second Mile and Penn State being almost interchangeable. No records can be released from Penn State. Again, I'm speculating with what I'm about to say here -

What if TSM and PSU pooled some funds in the form of a payout for Shower Victim 2002? Schultz was in charge at one point - left/retired and then returned. He was in charge of finance, right?

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 05:00 PM
Penn State trustees hire law firm for Sandusky sex-abuse case

Excerpt:
Penn State's trustees have hired a large Pittsburgh-based law firm to represent them in relation to the child sex-abuse scandal for which three current and former university employees face criminal charges.


Read more at Sports Illustrated: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/11/17/penn-state-trustees-law-firm.ap/index.html#ixzz1dzyeLqf9

Dr.Fessel
11-17-2011, 05:05 PM
From the link posted by HMSHood:


when they discovered that records from roughly 2000-2003 were missing.


Continuing with my wild speculation here...

One of the articles I posted last night spoke of The Second Mile and Penn State being almost interchangeable. No records can be released from Penn State. Again, I'm speculating with what I'm about to say here -

What if TSM and PSU pooled some funds in the form of a payout for Shower Victim 2002? Schultz was in charge at one point - left/retired and then returned. He was in charge of finance, right?

Right, he was the treasurer. I want to say he retired in 08? then came back in 2110?

LRinCA
11-17-2011, 05:07 PM
Schultz retired from the university in 2009, earning a compensation package of $320,966. But he returned in September, and a national search is under way for a permanent appointment to the job.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/top-level_penn_state_universit.html

Dr.Fessel
11-17-2011, 05:12 PM
From the link posted by HMSHood:


when they discovered that records from roughly 2000-2003 were missing.


Continuing with my wild speculation here...

One of the articles I posted last night spoke of The Second Mile and Penn State being almost interchangeable. No records can be released from Penn State. Again, I'm speculating with what I'm about to say here -

What if TSM and PSU pooled some funds in the form of a payout for Shower Victim 2002? Schultz was in charge at one point - left/retired and then returned. He was in charge of finance, right?


Schultz retired from the university in 2009, earning a compensation package of $320,966. But he returned in September, and a national search is under way for a permanent appointment to the job. http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/top-level_penn_state_universit.html It looks like they brought him back after they knew what the grand jury was up to.

Dr.Fessel
11-17-2011, 05:15 PM
Schultz retired from the university in 2009, earning a compensation package of $320,966. But he returned in September, and a national search is under way for a permanent appointment to the job.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/top-level_penn_state_universit.html
They knew full well what the Grand Jury was up to by that point. One thing hiring him back like that did was allow them to muzzle him if they had to.

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 05:16 PM
From the link posted by HMSHood:


when they discovered that records from roughly 2000-2003 were missing.


Continuing with my wild speculation here...

One of the articles I posted last night spoke of The Second Mile and Penn State being almost interchangeable. No records can be released from Penn State. Again, I'm speculating with what I'm about to say here -

What if TSM and PSU pooled some funds in the form of a payout for Shower Victim 2002? Schultz was in charge at one point - left/retired and then returned. He was in charge of finance, right?
Schultz retired in 2009. When his successor, Al Horvath, took a better paying and more prestigious job at the Smithsonian last July, Schultz was asked to fill in on an interim basis.

Dr.Fessel
11-17-2011, 05:21 PM
Schultz retired in 2009. When his successor, Al Horvath, took a better paying and more prestigious job at the Smithsonian last July, Schultz was asked to fill in on an interim basis. They hired him back knowing the Grand Jury was meeting and knowing what some of the witnesses were saying and who the targets were.

woodville
11-17-2011, 05:21 PM
I never even thought about that! One of the articles I read last night mentioned the calendar years that were missing (the early 2000s IIRC).

Suddenly I'm thinking about the kid in the shower (2002). And hush money. "We think we've found him and he'll tell a different story."
It seems that Sandusky and his cohorts had ample time to disappear/destroy evidence. I read last night that he was informed of the GJ investigation in 2008 but his house and computers weren't searched until this past summer. Two an a half years after he knew he was being investigated.

Dr.Fessel
11-17-2011, 05:25 PM
It seems that Sandusky and his cohorts had ample time to disappear/destroy evidence. I read last night that he was informed of the GJ investigation in 2008 but his house and computers weren't searched until this past summer. Two an a half years after he knew he was being investigated.
He got the special pedophile treatment all the way that is for sure and still is.

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 05:31 PM
They hired him back knowing the Grand Jury was meeting and knowing what some of the witnesses were saying and who the targets were.


When Shultz's successor moved to DC to take a better job, should Penn State have hired the very first person that applied for this job or should they utilize an executive search firm and search nationally to find qualified applicants?

What should Penn State have done to fill the position of Vice President of Finance and Business while a NATIONAL search was occurring?

Brill Neumann Executive Search Consulting Firm was hired to assist in the national search for that position. The Vice President for Administration is leading a 12-person search advisory committee. It will take months to interview candidates and then the candidate will have to move to State College which could also take weeks. Shultz was asked to be an interim employee since he was the previous person who held this position.

Steely Dan
11-17-2011, 05:31 PM
I never even thought about that! One of the articles I read last night mentioned the calendar years that were missing (the early 2000s IIRC).

Suddenly I'm thinking about the kid in the shower (2002). And hush money. "We think we've found him and he'll tell a different story."

I wonder if those payments are sealed and the victims aren't allowed to talk to anyone about the crimes against them as part of the settlement. :waitasec:

Dr.Fessel
11-17-2011, 05:35 PM
When Shultz's successor moved to DC to take a better job, should Penn State have hired the very first person that applied for this job or should they utilize an executive search firm and search nationally to find qualified applicants?

What should Penn State have done to fill the position of Vice President of Finance and Business while a NATIONAL search was occurring?

Brill Neumann Executive Search Consulting Firm was hired to assist in the national search for that position. The Vice President for Administration is leading a 12-person search advisory committee. It will take months to interview candidates and then the candidate will have to move to State College which could also take weeks. Shultz was asked to be an interim employee since he was the previous person who held this position.

I don't know, maybe use the person right below him?

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 05:35 PM
I wonder if those payments are sealed and the victims aren't allowed to talk to anyone about the crimes against them as part of the settlement. :waitasec:
What payments? Where can I read about payments?

mahmoo
11-17-2011, 05:35 PM
Penn State trustees hire law firm in scandal (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7247293/penn-state-nittany-lions-abuse-scandal-board-trustees-hires-law-firm)


Penn State's trustees have hired Reed Smith, a large Pittsburgh-based law firm, to represent them in relation to the child sex-abuse scandal for which three current and former university employees face criminal charges.

Moss declined to say whether Reed Smith, which lists more than 1,700 lawyers on its website, would be focusing on criminal or civil matters.

Pensfan
11-17-2011, 05:41 PM
I don't know, maybe use the person right below him?
This is a huge university with 92,000 students and huge financial responsibilities.
Who knows if the person holding the position under him would be competent with a 4.6 BILLION dollar budget?

I do like your plan though. It sounds like musical chairs. "Okay doekie everyone. When the music starts, pick up your crap and move up to the next higher office." ;)