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lauriej
11-23-2011, 08:44 PM
..as we continue to get more of the 911 call , i thought a thread appropriate to keep it in one place.

THM's "Melissa in Michigan" posts 11/23/2011:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1421&p=207915#p207915

On the last 1/2 hour of HLN's "Special Report" program today, they discussed Rebecca's case....

Martin Rudoy, the other attorney for the Zahau family, was on the show, and he discussed the Asian "anime" porn being found on Rebecca's Laptop with Jane Velez-Mitchell. They didn't really go into this further.

Dr.Wecht also joined by phone to discuss many of the things he's covered already on other shows.

Dr. Mark Kalish, San Diego Forensic Pyschiatrist, was also on the show. He expressed his opinion that there was nothing in her previous mental state to indicate she would have taken her life.

Rebecca's sister, Mary also joined by phone.

Here is the transcript of the excerpt they played from the 911 call:

911 Operator: 911 Emergency, what are you reporting?

Adam: Yeah, I got a girl, hung herself in the guest house. It's on Ocean Boulevard across from the hotel. Same place you come and got the kid yesterday. You came here yesterday to pick up a little boy.

911 Operator: Okay sir, I wasn't working yesterday. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Adam: Did you check the records?

911 Operator: Sir, I checked all of the records yesterday. I can't find anything on Ocean Boulevard. Can you tell me what the address is?

Adam: I'm looking. Just start sending them towards us, towards the hotel

911 Operator: How old is she?

Adam: She's about 30

911 Operator: 30? Okay. When's the last time you saw her?

Adam: Last night

The attorney thought it was curious that Adam told 911 that "he found a girl, hung herself". He questioned why Adam didn't say her name, and how he would know that she hung herself.

arielilane
11-23-2011, 08:53 PM
AS is a bit backwards? A bit scripted?

lauriej
11-23-2011, 09:13 PM
---original post by "cynic".

DrPZ 1A - YouTube

..@45 (..@45) seconds:
Dispatch: “911 Emergency, what are you reporting?”
AdamS: “I got a girl----hung herself”
..@1:22:
Dispatch: “Is she still alive?”
AdamS: “Are you alive?”
AdamS: “I don’t think so.”

DrPZ2B - YouTube

..@beginning:
Dispatch: “911 Emergency, what are you reporting?”
AdamS: “Yeah, uh,I got a girl----hung herself”
Dispatch: “Ok, sir, is she still alive?”
AdamS: “Are you alive?”
Dispatch: “Ok, let me get the Fire Department”.
Dispatch: “Sir, hang on, let me get the Fire Department on the phone”.
Fire Operator: “When was the last time you saw her?”
AdamS: “Last night.”
Fire Operator: “Ok, is she beyond help?”
AdamS: (inaudible) “I’m doing-----I’m compressing her chest right now.”
Fire Operator: “Ok, hold on, sir..”
AdamS: (inaudible.)
Fire Operator: “What’s your name?”
AdamS: “Adam Shacknai”.
Fire Operator: “Ok listen to me, help is coming right now”.

lauriej
11-23-2011, 09:23 PM
Adam: "Yeah, I got a girl, hung herself in the guest house".


...in the guest house?

( umm, no adam, you just came out of the guest house and 'discovered her' ---where you had just finished "entertaining yourself" with porn on your iPhone... and putting your pants back on..)---oh and putting your Boots on too.

( sherrifG says that the boot prints in the kitchen---that were never analyzed according to anneB--- were determined to be adam's , when he ran into the kitchen to get the knife, as they were "consistant" with his boots.. )

..and why would someone look at a body that's hanging there, bound up with rope, gagged -----and conclude that she had hung herself ??

cynic
11-23-2011, 09:31 PM
Adam: "Yeah, I got a girl, hung herself in the guest house".


...in the guest house?

( umm, no adam, you just came out of the guest house and 'discovered her' ---where you had just finished "entertaining yourself" with porn on your iPhone... and putting your pants back on..)---oh and putting your Boots on too.

( sherrifG says that the boot prints in the kitchen---that were never analyzed according to anneB--- were determined to be adam's , when he ran into the kitchen to get the knife, as they were "consistant" with his boots.. )

..and why would someone look at a body that's hanging there, bound up with rope, gagged -----and conclude that she had hung herself ??
BBM
Makes perfect sense to SheriffG :crazy: :ufo:

curiousjo
11-23-2011, 09:52 PM
Adam: "Yeah, I got a girl, hung herself in the guest house".

Is this a freudian slip? Maybe RN did hang in the guest house, before he strung her up at the mansion....

Mrs. Holmes
11-23-2011, 10:08 PM
..as we continue to get more of the 911 call , i thought a thread appropriate to keep it in one place.

THM's "Melissa in Michigan" posts 11/23/2011:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1421&p=207915#p207915

On the last 1/2 hour of HLN's "Special Report" program today, they discussed Rebecca's case....

Martin Rudoy, the other attorney for the Zahau family, was on the show, and he discussed the Asian "anime" porn being found on Rebecca's Laptop with Jane Velez-Mitchell. They didn't really go into this further.

Dr.Wecht also joined by phone to discuss many of the things he's covered already on other shows.

Dr. Mark Kalish, San Diego Forensic Pyschiatrist, was also on the show. He expressed his opinion that there was nothing in her previous mental state to indicate she would have taken her life.

Rebecca's sister, Mary also joined by phone.

Here is the transcript of the excerpt they played from the 911 call:

911 Operator: 911 Emergency, what are you reporting?

Adam: Yeah, I got a girl, hung herself in the guest house. It's on Ocean Boulevard across from the hotel. Same place you come and got the kid yesterday. You came here yesterday to pick up a little boy.
911 Operator: Okay sir, I wasn't working yesterday. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Adam: Did you check the records?

911 Operator: Sir, I checked all of the records yesterday. I can't find anything on Ocean Boulevard. Can you tell me what the address is?

Adam: I'm looking. Just start sending them towards us, towards the hotel

911 Operator: How old is she?

Adam: She's about 30

911 Operator: 30? Okay. When's the last time you saw her?

Adam: Last night

The attorney thought it was curious that Adam told 911 that "he found a girl, hung herself". He questioned why Adam didn't say her name, and how he would know that she hung herself.

Adam got the days mixed up. It is Wednesday early morning and MS was taken to hospital on the Monday. So that would be the day before yesterday. Did he stay up all night and lose track of time? Again though finding someone hanging... is a shock..

You know this case is full of cirque du soleil acts......because apparently even Adam can balance on a three legged table while holding a woman in his arms and cut a rope with a kitchen knife. Then he can do chest compressions and speak to 911 at the same time. When you do chest compressions aren't you supposed to be counting? Don't they sometimes help you count and give you instructions on how to do the chest compressions. We have not heard the whole call yet? Maybe this happens later on in the call?

Melanie
11-23-2011, 10:14 PM
He's gotta be in shock. He screamed at her "Are You Alive". That scared the heck out of me when I heard it -- straight out of a movie!!

It's gotta be shock, or there's something really strange going on here.

MOO

Mel

lauriej
11-23-2011, 11:37 PM
-------snipped-----. Then he can do chest compressions and speak to 911 at the same time. When you do chest compressions aren't you supposed to be counting? Don't they sometimes help you count and give you instructions on how to do the chest compressions. We have not heard the whole call yet? Maybe this happens later on in the call?

-----yeah---that's just weird.

..not only are you to count------but you NEED 2 hands to do CPR ( it's quite ridiculous to imagine him doing CPR/compressions while ON his cell phone.)---( and while the victim is not laid on her back, since we know rebecca had her hands bound behind her back..)

dovebar
11-24-2011, 12:06 AM
If you saw someone trussed up on RZ, I would think you'd automatically assume they were murdered. With the bound hands and the gag particularly.

The mistake on the place is weird.
So is referring to his dying nephew as "the kid."
So is not using the name of the person or her relationship, like, "There's a girl - she's dead, my brother's girlfriend is dead, or Rebecca's dead!"

elfie
11-24-2011, 12:32 AM
-----yeah---that's just weird.

..not only are you to count------but you NEED 2 hands to do CPR ( it's quite ridiculous to imagine him doing CPR/compressions while ON his cell phone.)---( and while the victim is not laid on her back, since we know rebecca had her hands bound behind her back..)

Wondering if had the phone on speaker. Still, getting her arms out from behind her back would have been key.

jjenny
11-24-2011, 12:43 AM
By the time AS called 911 she was dead for hours. There was no cpr in the world that could have helped her. Frankly I don't know how someone could do chest compressions on her anyway, since in the photos her arms appear to still be bound behind her back. She couldn't even be placed flat on her back. Not that it would make any difference since she was dead for a long time before 911 call.

Melanie
11-24-2011, 01:23 AM
If you saw someone trussed up on RZ, I would think you'd automatically assume they were murdered. With the bound hands and the gag particularly.

The mistake on the place is weird.
So is referring to his dying nephew as "the kid."
So is not using the name of the person or her relationship, like, "There's a girl - she's dead, my brother's girlfriend is dead, or Rebecca's dead!"

IMHO it shows lack of general respect. I know that Maxie hadn't died yet, but why would he refer to him as the kid? Shock or not, wouldn't he use the name Max Shacknai as an identifier for the 911 operator? It almost sounds like a script by saying the kid, and a girl.

I usually get bashed when I read too much into things, but this raised the hairs on my neck. Hey, Adam - her name is Rebecca! She's not a girl, she's a full grown woman.

He sounds detached and disrespectful IMHO. And last I heard, it's dang near impossible to do chest compressions whilst hands are tied behind ones back. If he did, wouldn't her wrists be bruised and battered?

MOO

Mel

ufos8mycow
11-24-2011, 01:37 AM
I do think it is possible to do chest compressions with a cell phone. You would be amazed at the things that I do when using my shoulder to hold the phone to my ear.

But then again we don;t know what type of phone he was using do we? Did he have an ear piece or Bluetooth?

defense101
11-24-2011, 10:45 AM
I do think it is possible to do chest compressions with a cell phone. You would be amazed at the things that I do when using my shoulder to hold the phone to my ear.

But then again we don;t know what type of phone he was using do we? Did he have an ear piece or Bluetooth? That could be possible, but you need to be flat on your back, her arms are either still tied or much worse in rigor which would mean it was just for show. He had just supposedly cut her down, and even though holding her cold dead body says he's doing chest compressions. That she hung herself in the guest house statement is very telling isn't it. Is that where she was actually strangled. As Adam went through the kitchen door that morning to go get knives to cut her down, it was obvious the house wasn't locked up, so did he have access to the house while Rebecca was sleeping? I'd like to hear the full call to see the sequence of the statements.

Truthwillsetufree
11-24-2011, 11:03 AM
He's gotta be in shock. He screamed at her "Are You Alive". That scared the heck out of me when I heard it -- straight out of a movie!!

It's gotta be shock, or there's something really strange going on here.

MOO

Mel

That hit a nerve in me that I can't explain!
To me and JMO, it was a mocking kind of gesture...disgusting in my opinion.

lauriej
11-24-2011, 01:58 PM
I do think it is possible to do chest compressions with a cell phone. You would be amazed at the things that I do when using my shoulder to hold the phone to my ear.

But then again we don;t know what type of phone he was using do we? Did he have an ear piece or Bluetooth?

..an iPhone.

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/16083634/zahau-attorney-bondage-porn-found-on-coronado-mansion-computer
Attorney: 'Bondage porn' found on Coronado mansion computer

"Bremner said Adam Shacknai claimed during a lie detector examination that he was viewing pornography on his iPhone just before he walked out of the mansion guest house and found Zahau hanging."

ufos8mycow
11-24-2011, 07:00 PM
That could be possible, but you need to be flat on your back, her arms are either still tied or much worse in rigor which would mean it was just for show. He had just supposedly cut her down, and even though holding her cold dead body says he's doing chest compressions. That she hung herself in the guest house statement is very telling isn't it. Is that where she was actually strangled. As Adam went through the kitchen door that morning to go get knives to cut her down, it was obvious the house wasn't locked up, so did he have access to the house while Rebecca was sleeping? I'd like to hear the full call to see the sequence of the statements.

Looking at this picture it looks like her right arm is free and not tied. Of course I can't say rigor wasn't a factor. I personally don't think the brother had anything to do with this case other than finding her. After listening to the 911 call I just don't 'feel' it.

http://www.examiner.com/news-analysis-in-national/doctor-maurice-godwin-says-rebecca-zahau-was-murdered-picture?slide=40214116#main

jjenny
11-24-2011, 07:20 PM
Looking at this picture it looks like her right arm is free and not tied. Of course I can't say rigor wasn't a factor. I personally don't think the brother had anything to do with this case other than finding her. After listening to the 911 call I just don't 'feel' it.

http://www.examiner.com/news-analysis-in-national/doctor-maurice-godwin-says-rebecca-zahau-was-murdered-picture?slide=40214116#main

If her arms were un-tied, where is her left arm? Clearly she didn't just have one arm. She is on her side, and you can't see her left arm. I presume it's because the left arm is under the body, and both arms are tied behind the back. You can also see the long rope that tied the arms together. And never mind autopsy report says her wrists were tied behind her back. So, no, I don't think her arms were free.

ufos8mycow
11-24-2011, 09:21 PM
After reading the autopsy report I noticed it says that the police did CPR on her until paramedics arrived and told them to stop. If the brother says he did CPR and the police did their own CPR didn't any of them untie her hands?

If the idea is the brother couldn't have performed CPR because of the tied hands then how did the police do it?

jjenny
11-24-2011, 09:50 PM
After reading the autopsy report I noticed it says that the police did CPR on her until paramedics arrived and told them to stop. If the brother says he did CPR and the police did their own CPR didn't any of them untie her hands?

If the idea is the brother couldn't have performed CPR because of the tied hands then how did the police do it?

I don't know how police did CPR on her if they did anything at all. She couldn't be put flat on her back because her arms are tied behind her back. She has to be on a flat hard surface. Photos show her on the grass. She was also in rigor and dead for hours by the time Coronado police arrived. They couldn't figure it out?

defense101
11-24-2011, 10:21 PM
After reading the autopsy report I noticed it says that the police did CPR on her until paramedics arrived and told them to stop. If the brother says he did CPR and the police did their own CPR didn't any of them untie her hands?

If the idea is the brother couldn't have performed CPR because of the tied hands then how did the police do it? The autopsy says Coronado Fire Department arrived at 0653 hours and confirmed the death without intervention.

time
11-24-2011, 10:29 PM
..as we continue to get more of the 911 call , i thought a thread appropriate to keep it in one place.

THM's "Melissa in Michigan" posts 11/23/2011:

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=1421&p=207915#p207915

On the last 1/2 hour of HLN's "Special Report" program today, they discussed Rebecca's case....

Martin Rudoy, the other attorney for the Zahau family, was on the show, and he discussed the Asian "anime" porn being found on Rebecca's Laptop with Jane Velez-Mitchell. They didn't really go into this further.

Dr.Wecht also joined by phone to discuss many of the things he's covered already on other shows.

Dr. Mark Kalish, San Diego Forensic Pyschiatrist, was also on the show. He expressed his opinion that there was nothing in her previous mental state to indicate she would have taken her life.

Rebecca's sister, Mary also joined by phone.

Here is the transcript of the excerpt they played from the 911 call:

911 Operator: 911 Emergency, what are you reporting?

Adam: Yeah, I got a girl, hung herself in the guest house. It's on Ocean Boulevard across from the hotel. Same place you come and got the kid yesterday. You came here yesterday to pick up a little boy.

911 Operator: Okay sir, I wasn't working yesterday. I have no idea what you're talking about.

Adam: Did you check the records?

911 Operator: Sir, I checked all of the records yesterday. I can't find anything on Ocean Boulevard. Can you tell me what the address is?

Adam: I'm looking. Just start sending them towards us, towards the hotel

911 Operator: How old is she?

Adam: She's about 30

911 Operator: 30? Okay. When's the last time you saw her?

Adam: Last night

The attorney thought it was curious that Adam told 911 that "he found a girl, hung herself". He questioned why Adam didn't say her name, and how he would know that she hung herself.


"hung herself in the guest house."


Uh ... anyone think it's weird he said in the guest house?????

ufos8mycow
11-24-2011, 10:40 PM
The autopsy says Coronado Fire Department arrived at 0653 hours and confirmed the death without intervention.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B54MtfXlxRJbYjA3YzY2MTItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDg tMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en

Page -2- ME Opinion part 1st paragraph:

"Coranado Police Department personnel responded and began cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR). Coranado Fire Department personnel responded, felt rigor mortis in her jaw(no other areas were checked), and advised CPR be stopped."

defense101
11-24-2011, 10:51 PM
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B54MtfXlxRJbYjA3YzY2MTItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDg tMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en

Page -2- ME Opinion part 1st paragraph:

"Coranado Police Department personnel responded and began cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR). Coranado Fire Department personnel responded, felt rigor mortis in her jaw(no other areas were checked), and advised CPR be stopped." So that means it says both, I wonder which one actually happened?

ufos8mycow
11-24-2011, 10:55 PM
So that means it says both, I wonder which one actually happened?

To me it suggests police did CPR on her. Doesn't say if they removed rope from arms though. I think the Fire crew arrived after and checked for rigor and didn't perform any CPR.

defense101
11-25-2011, 12:09 PM
To me it suggests police did CPR on her. Doesn't say if they removed rope from arms though. I think the Fire crew arrived after and checked for rigor and didn't perform any CPR. Under the scene investigation the ME states I also viewed the body of a naked female as she lie supine on the grass. The decedent hand and feet were bound with an orange color rope, so her hands were still tied. IMO I find it hard to believe that anyone whether it be Adam or the police did CPR on Rebecca. Any police officer of worth would know just by feeling the temperature of her body that she was beyond any rescue efforts.

TGIRecovered
11-26-2011, 09:24 PM
The amount of conflicting information in the autopsy report leaves me with no confidence in the integrity of this investigation. The way it reads makes me suspect that these officials are used to writing down whatever they think will sound good and lend support to their pre-determined conclusion.

I gave AS the benifit of the doubt before, but the 911 call has convinced me that he was trying to distance himself from the situation by referring to RN as "a girl" and Maxie as "the kid". I don't believe that he did CPR. I do suspect that RN may have been assaulted in the guest house. I do believe that AS tied the knots in the electrical cord.

JMO

TGIRecovered
11-27-2011, 01:08 PM
Oops! It was kindly pointed out to me that it was ski rope, not electrical cord, which was used to bind RN. (Too late to edit my post above this one but I don't want to cause any confusion.)

Thank you Mrs. Holmes!

ufos8mycow
11-27-2011, 08:10 PM
One thing that I noticed in the ME report was the signature and date written by Jonathan R Lucas MD. Page 6.

Autopsy (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B54MtfXlxRJbYjA3YzY2MTItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDg tMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en)

I would love to see other things he has signed to compare. It just looks sloppy and to me looks like it is 'nervous' writing. Especially the ones in the date. Like I would expect from someone who doesn't really agree with what they are signing or maybe knowingly signing something false.

Secondly in regards to the black paint on Rebecca's breast and nipple to me the most likely way it could have gotten there is if someone threw a brush at her as she was lying on the ground.

Edit: Sorry I posted this in the wrong thread as it should have gone in the Autopsy thread.

Mrs. Holmes
11-28-2011, 12:38 PM
One thing that I noticed in the ME report was the signature and date written by Jonathan R Lucas MD. Page 6.

Autopsy (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B54MtfXlxRJbYjA3YzY2MTItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDg tMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en)

I would love to see other things he has signed to compare. It just looks sloppy and to me looks like it is 'nervous' writing. Especially the ones in the date. Like I would expect from someone who doesn't really agree with what they are signing or maybe knowingly signing something false.

Secondly in regards to the black paint on Rebecca's breast and nipple to me the most likely way it could have gotten there is if someone threw a brush at her as she was lying on the ground.

Edit: Sorry I posted this in the wrong thread as it should have gone in the Autopsy thread.

I found it interesting that Lou Scanlon, Coronado Chief of Police did not attend the press conference and has made no comments.

http://www.coronado.ca.us/department/?fDD=11-0
Smart move on his part... or was he not happy with Sheriff BG's handing?

lauriej
11-28-2011, 01:55 PM
I found it interesting that Lou Scanlon, Coronado Chief of Police did not attend the press conference and has made no comments.

http://www.coronado.ca.us/department/?fDD=11-0
Smart move on his part... or was he not happy with Sheriff BG's handing?

..according to sheriffG at the 09/02 P/C, Chief Scanlon "would have been here today but is on a scheduled trip out of the country"-----Commander Mike Lawton took his place.

dovebar
11-28-2011, 11:42 PM
..according to sheriffG at the 09/02 P/C, Chief Scanlon "would have been here today but is on a scheduled trip out of the country"-----Commander Mike Lawton took his place.

Sure would be interesting to know where, and if he's traveling at taxpayer expense.

What's the Chief's salary, anyway?

Mrs. Holmes
11-29-2011, 10:39 AM
..according to sheriffG at the 09/02 P/C, Chief Scanlon "would have been here today but is on a scheduled trip out of the country"-----Commander Mike Lawton took his place.

What a coincidence of timing eh?

coastal
11-29-2011, 05:04 PM
Sure would be interesting to know where, and if he's traveling at taxpayer expense.

What's the Chief's salary, anyway?
Found this ad from 2005:

http://www.theblueline.com/draft/CAcoronadopd1.html

DIRECTOR OF POLICE SERVICES
City of Coronado
The Director of Police Services serves as the City’s Police Chief and reports directly to the City Manager.

>>>snip

The City of Coronado offers a highly competitive compensation package. The Director of Police Services position has an established salary band of $107,136 - $127,848 per year. Appointment may be made anywhere within the band, depending on qualifications. In addition to salary, the City offers an excellent benefits package including:

Retirement - The City participates in the California Public Employees’ Retirement System (CalPERS), with a benefit level of 3% at 50 for public safety employees. The City currently contributes both the employee and employer share. The City contributes 9% of the regular salary, with the employer paid member contribution reported as “compensation earnable” for retirement purposes.

Health Benefits - The City provides a cafeteria benefit plan allowance to purchase medical, dental vision, supplemental life insurance and enhanced long-term disability. Currently, the City allocates $8,594 annually for this plan. Reimbursement for health care and dependent care expenses is also available.

Leave Benefits - The City provides 184 to 224 hours of annual leave, depending on number of years of service. The City also provides 11 paid holidays and 1 floating holiday per year.

Administrative Leave
- The City provides executives with 80 hours of administrative leave per fiscal year.

Life Insurance - The City provides one times salary Term Life plus $25,000 Term Life and $25,000 Accidental Death & Dismemberment (AD&D).

Tuition Reimbursement - The City provides up to $1,000 per fiscal year for reimbursement for the directly related cost of tuition, school fees, books and required materials for approved courses.

Automobile Allowance - The Director of Police Services is provided the use of a City vehicle.

<<<snip

Not too shabby for a little island with no crime, eh?

lauriej
11-30-2011, 04:22 AM
http://www.cbs8.com/story/16150816/911-call-released-in-hanging-death-at-coronados-spreckels-mansion

911 call released in hanging death at Spreckels mansion

CORONADO, Calif. (CBS 8) - A dramatic 911 call that reported a hanging death at Coronado's Spreckels mansion has been released to News 8. Most of the four and a half minute audio recording has never been heard publicly.

The call was placed to Coronado police dispatch by Adam Shacknai, the brother of the mansion owner, Jonah Shacknai

----------Meanwhile, a meeting between Sheriff Bill Gore and two Zahau family attorneys scheduled for Wednesday, Nov. 30 had been postponed until next month.

lauriej
11-30-2011, 04:56 AM
http://www.cbs8.com/story/16150816/911-call-released-in-hanging-death-at-coronados-spreckels-mansion


Adam called 911 on his cell phone at 6:45 a.m. on July 13 to report finding his brother's girlfriend, Rebecca Zahau, 32, hanging from a courtyard balcony.



DISPATCHER: 911 emergency. What are you reporting?

ADAM SHACKNAI: Yeah, I got a girl hung herself in the guest house of ah... it's on Ocean Blvd. across from the hotel; the same place that you came and got the kid yesterday.

DISPATCHER: Okay, sir, what is the address?

ADAM SHACKNAI: I'm not sure, ah, I'm not sure. Let me call you back.

During the 911 call, Adam Shacknai can be heard hyperventilating while apparently moving a wooden table into a position underneath the naked, bound and gagged body of Rebecca Zahau.

At one point, it sounds as if one of the wooden legs of the table breaks off and falls to the ground, while Adam scrambles to cut down Zahau's corpse.


The Coronado dispatch recording ends after 4 minutes 46 seconds, even though the 911 call continues with Heartland dispatchers. That final portion of the 911 audio was recorded by Heartland but has not been released.

Heartland has denied several News 8 requests to release the audio under the California Public Records Act, claiming the audio is exempt from disclosure as a law enforcement investigatory record.

The first portion of the 911 call – the one recorded by Coronado police dispatch and aired by News 8 – was apparently released by mistake.

Mrs. Holmes
11-30-2011, 10:22 AM
The missing 8 seconds...... and the final portion of the call.... not released... It sounds like in the call AS puts the phone down and then comes back to it.

Another month for the meeting puts it at Christmas? I wonder why? Who was not ready?

lauriej
11-30-2011, 03:12 PM
The missing 8 seconds...... and the final portion of the call.... not released... It sounds like in the call AS puts the phone down and then comes back to it.

Another month for the meeting puts it at Christmas? I wonder why? Who was not ready?

..it reads "postponed until next month", nor "for" a month..

..'next month' begins tomorrow.

cynic
11-30-2011, 10:37 PM
This is my transcript of the call:

911 Operator: 911 Emergency, what are you reporting?

AS: Yeah, I got a girl, hung herself in the guest house, over, it's on Ocean Boulevard across from the hotel. Same place you came and got the kid yesterday.

911 Operator: Okay sir, what is the address?

AS: I’m not sure, uh…, 19… on the back house it’s 1928 something, uh, I’m not sure. Let me call you back.

(AS remains on the phone, however)

911 Operator: Okay sir, is she still alive?

AS: I don’t know.

(Various scraping sounds)

(Sound of stick falling?)

AS: S**t.

AS: F***

AS: No.

AS: F****n kid.

AS: Oops.

(8 seconds of silence)

AS: Ah.

911 Operator: Sir, are you there?

AS: Ah, ah, ah, ah…

(Sound of something breaking/snapping)

AS: Ah, are you alive?

AS: No…

AS: Hello… hello.

911 Operator: Yes sir.

AS: Did you get the address?

911 Operator: No sir, I need the address.

AS: I’m doing CPR right now.

AS: You came here yesterday to pick up a little boy.

911 Operator: Okay sir, I wasn't working yesterday. I don't know what you're talking about.

AS: You checked your records?

911 Operator: Sir, I checked all of the records yesterday. I can't find anything on Ocean Boulevard. Can you tell me what the address is?

AS: I'm looking. Just start sending them towards us, towards the hotel.

911 Operator: Okay, I understand that, I just need the exact address, I can’t help you until I have the address.

(AS is heard breathing heavily.)

AS: 1043 Ocean Boulevard.

911 Operator: 1043 Ocean, okay.

911 Operator: Is she still alive?

AS: I don’t think so.

911 Operator: Okay, let me get the fire department, sir, hang on, let me get the fire department on the phone to help you, hang on just a minute.

AS: F***, come on…

Fire/EMS operator: Fire, medical emergency.

911 Operator: Coronado with a transfer, go ahead sir.

Fire/EMS operator: Hi, what’s the emergency?

AS: Got a lady, hung herself.

Fire/EMS operator: What’s the address?

AS: 1043 Ocean Boulevard.

Fire/EMS operator: 1043 Ocean Boulevard?

AS: Yeah.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, what’s wrong?

AS: She hung herself, man, I just woke up.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, is this a house?

AS: It’s a house, yeah…

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, how old is she?

AS: She's about 30.

Fire/EMS operator: 30, okay, when's the last time you saw her?

AS: Last night.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, is she beyond help?

AS: I’m talking to, I’m doing, I’m compressing her chest right now, I’m up to about 20, 30 now.

Fire/EMS operator: What’s your name?

AS: Adam Shacknai.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, I have help on the way, what’s your cell phone number? Is it 901-485..?

AS: 901-485…

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, listen to me, help is coming right now, okay.

Fire/EMS operator: And PD, you're on the way?

911 Operator: Yes we are.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, and you’re right there with her, did you cut her down?

AS: Yes I did.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, just stay with me.

curiousjo
12-01-2011, 09:34 AM
My computer speakers are down - I can't hear AS voice or backgound noises. Does the live tape give you any clues? Is this a man who truley did just find a girl hung in the backyard?

Zale
12-01-2011, 02:34 PM
This is my transcript of the call:

911 Operator: 911 Emergency, what are you reporting?

AS: Yeah, I got a girl, hung herself in the guest house, over, it's on Ocean Boulevard across from the hotel. Same place you came and got the kid yesterday.

911 Operator: Okay sir, what is the address?

AS: I’m not sure, uh…, 19… on the back house it’s 1928 something, uh, I’m not sure. Let me call you back.

(AS remains on the phone, however)

911 Operator: Okay sir, is she still alive?

AS: I don’t know.

(Various scraping sounds)

(Sound of stick falling?)

AS: S**t.

AS: F***

AS: No.

AS: F****n kid.

AS: Oops.

(8 seconds of silence)

AS: Ah.

911 Operator: Sir, are you there?

AS: Ah, ah, ah, ah…

(Sound of something breaking/snapping)

AS: Ah, are you alive?

AS: No…

AS: Hello… hello.

911 Operator: Yes sir.

AS: Did you get the address?

911 Operator: No sir, I need the address.

AS: I’m doing CPR right now.

AS: You came here yesterday to pick up a little boy.

911 Operator: Okay sir, I wasn't working yesterday. I don't know what you're talking about.

AS: You checked your records?

911 Operator: Sir, I checked all of the records yesterday. I can't find anything on Ocean Boulevard. Can you tell me what the address is?

AS: I'm looking. Just start sending them towards us, towards the hotel.

911 Operator: Okay, I understand that, I just need the exact address, I can’t help you until I have the address.

(AS is heard breathing heavily.)

AS: 1043 Ocean Boulevard.

911 Operator: 1043 Ocean, okay.

911 Operator: Is she still alive?

AS: I don’t think so.

911 Operator: Okay, let me get the fire department, sir, hang on, let me get the fire department on the phone to help you, hang on just a minute.

AS: F***, come on…

Fire/EMS operator: Fire, medical emergency.

911 Operator: Coronado with a transfer, go ahead sir.

Fire/EMS operator: Hi, what’s the emergency?

AS: Got a lady, hung herself.

Fire/EMS operator: What’s the address?

AS: 1043 Ocean Boulevard.

Fire/EMS operator: 1043 Ocean Boulevard?

AS: Yeah.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, what’s wrong?

AS: She hung herself, man, I just woke up.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, is this a house?

AS: It’s a house, yeah…

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, how old is she?

AS: She's about 30.

Fire/EMS operator: 30, okay, when's the last time you saw her?

AS: Last night.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, is she beyond help?

AS: I’m trying… give me some, I’m doing, I’m compressing her chest right now, I’m up to about 20, 30 now.

Fire/EMS operator: What’s your name?

AS: Adam Shacknai.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, I have help on the way, what’s your cell phone number? Is it 901-485..?

AS: 901-485…

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, listen to me, help is coming right now, okay.

Fire/EMS operator: And PD, you're on the way?

911 Operator: Yes we are.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, and you’re right there with her, did you cut her down?

AS: Yes I did.

Fire/EMS operator: Okay, just stay with me.

Who is the "F****n kid" Adam refers to? Rebecca or Max? Who? How curious that this phrase happens right before the 8 secs of silence in audio. One wonders what else Adam might have let slip and whether the gap is an intentional edit by LE?

Didn't Adam tell LE he was watching porn on his Iphone right before he discovered Rebecca's body? Why does he say in this 911 call that he "just woke up"?

Mrs. Holmes
12-01-2011, 03:15 PM
When did he get the knife.... there is no mention of it.... to cut the rope? During the missing 8 seconds? At first listen it sounds genuine enough.

chantal8991
12-01-2011, 03:22 PM
The amount of conflicting information in the autopsy report leaves me with no confidence in the integrity of this investigation. The way it reads makes me suspect that these officials are used to writing down whatever they think will sound good and lend support to their pre-determined conclusion.

I gave AS the benifit of the doubt before, but the 911 call has convinced me that he was trying to distance himself from the situation by referring to RN as "a girl" and Maxie as "the kid". I don't believe that he did CPR. I do suspect that RN may have been assaulted in the guest house. I do believe that AS tied the knots in the electrical cord.

JMO

There are several San Diego cases that officials determine what happened and that is the only direction they go.

As for the 911 call - have any of you ever heard an incoming call that the operator uses their first name? I am researching such and so far after over 100 calls I have found none.

TIA for any calls that you can steer me to.

chantal8991
12-01-2011, 03:30 PM
Who is the "F****n kid" Adam refers to? Rebecca or Max? Who? How curious that this phrase happens right before the 8 secs of silence in audio. One wonders what else Adam might have let slip and whether the gap is an intentional edit by LE?

Didn't Adam tell LE he was watching porn on his Iphone right before he discovered Rebecca's body? Why does he say in this 911 call that he "just woke up"?

This is his nephew and that is how he refers to this little boy? Some uncle! If I were Josh - I tell you I would be in his face so fast his head would spin. The kid? This guy has more than one mental problem and I do believe he was involved. This case - as in others have been concluded way too soon. IMO

I have a thought that just came to me after reading some of the prior posts. And if it has been brought up before - sorry.

OK - AS was supposedly watching Asian anime....Rebecca is a very small Asian woman...wonder if he, in his sick mind, was able to transfer her to his "desires".

defense101
12-02-2011, 05:20 PM
Who is the "F****n kid" Adam refers to? Rebecca or Max? Who? How curious that this phrase happens right before the 8 secs of silence in audio. One wonders what else Adam might have let slip and whether the gap is an intentional edit by LE?

Didn't Adam tell LE he was watching porn on his Iphone right before he discovered Rebecca's body? Why does he say in this 911 call that he "just woke up"? When I listen to it, I don't hear "F****n kid" I hear " F***ing kiddin' me."

Zale
12-02-2011, 06:16 PM
When I listen to it, I don't hear "F****n kid" I hear "you F***ing kiddin' me."

I had quoted Cynic's transcript of the 911. He hears "F****n kid" and so did I when I first heard the audio.

I just listened to it again. Still sounds like "F****n kid" to me. I don't hear the words "kiddin' me".

defense101
12-02-2011, 07:29 PM
I had quoted Cynic's transcript of the 911. He hears "F****n kid" and so did I when I first heard the audio.

I just listened to it again. Still sounds like "F****n kid" to me. I don't hear the words "kiddin' me". I still hear f****ng kiddin' me. I used your quote as it was closest to the bottom that mentioned the kid quote, I just wanted to give my opinion of what I heard.

cynic
12-02-2011, 07:31 PM
I had quoted Cynic's transcript of the 911. He hears "F****n kid" and so did I when I first heard the audio.

I just listened to it again. Still sounds like "F****n kid" to me. I don't hear the words "kiddin' me".
It is a difficult section of the recording.
AS dwells a bit on the last consonant leading people to believe there is more there, but I just finished enhancing and slowing that section down and it's definitely, "F****n kid."
I will upload the clip to YouTube shortly.

cynic
12-02-2011, 07:45 PM
Here is the section slowed down and enhanced:
ASCLP1 - YouTube

defense101
12-02-2011, 08:20 PM
Thanks Cynic, I'm not hearing the me at the end, but I still hear an N at the end of kid. I have tinnitus maybe thats why?

jjenny
12-02-2011, 08:33 PM
I don't hear any Ns at the end of the kid.

Yoda
12-02-2011, 09:31 PM
Thanks Cynic, I'm not hearing the me at the end, but I still hear an N at the end of kid. I have tinnitus maybe thats why?

I hear the N at the end too: 'kiddin'. And same as you, I have tinnitus so that might explain why we both hear an n sound at the end. Hmmm, weird.

arielilane
12-02-2011, 11:09 PM
It sounded to me that he said F****n kid. That is crazy...

justbetweenus
12-03-2011, 01:34 AM
I had quoted Cynic's transcript of the 911. He hears "F****n kid" and so did I when I first heard the audio.

I just listened to it again. Still sounds like "F****n kid" to me. I don't hear the words "kiddin' me".

I hear f***n damn thing.

Carpe Pacem
12-03-2011, 03:37 AM
Listened to Cynic's enhanced audio and hear the same thing he does. Shocking verbiage.

ziggy
12-03-2011, 04:50 AM
I hear ******ing kid...but I still think the "ding me" was trailed off and not audible or was not picked up. I don't see why he would blame Max or say something like that and to the contrary I say are you effing kidding me all the time when I'M FRUSTRATED or in a hurry to do something and another thing gets in the way etc.

This is the first time I've listened to it multiple times in a row. I can't help but think he sounds surprised and panicked. I also wonder why he doesn't tell her it's Johan S's house or give Max's name. But then again I think he's freaked out. Is that the sound of him attempting chest compression? It sounds like he is doing something physically demanding.

Rhyme & Reason
12-03-2011, 02:29 PM
Wow. I clearly hear f*****g kid. Clearly. I don't have tinnitus either. lol

jjenny
12-03-2011, 03:49 PM
I hear ******ing kid...but I still think the "ding me" was trailed off and not audible or was not picked up. I don't see why he would blame Max or say something like that and to the contrary I say are you effing kidding me all the time when I'M FRUSTRATED or in a hurry to do something and another thing gets in the way etc.

This is the first time I've listened to it multiple times in a row. I can't help but think he sounds surprised and panicked. I also wonder why he doesn't tell her it's Johan S's house or give Max's name. But then again I think he's freaked out. Is that the sound of him attempting chest compression? It sounds like he is doing something physically demanding.

She couldn't even be laid on her back because her hands were tied behind her back. So how did he do these chest compressions?

cynic
12-03-2011, 05:35 PM
I hear ******ing kid...but I still think the "ding me" was trailed off and not audible or was not picked up. I don't see why he would blame Max or say something like that and to the contrary I say are you effing kidding me all the time when I'M FRUSTRATED or in a hurry to do something and another thing gets in the way etc.

This is the first time I've listened to it multiple times in a row. I can't help but think he sounds surprised and panicked. I also wonder why he doesn't tell her it's Johan S's house or give Max's name. But then again I think he's freaked out. Is that the sound of him attempting chest compression? It sounds like he is doing something physically demanding.
I’ve looked at the frequency output during that section and have done every conceivable audio boost to try and pick up anything before or after f…n kid and there is nothing, not even the faintest whisper.
Normally the full phrase would be “you’re f…n kidding me,” or, “you’ve got to be f…n kidding me,” etc, in other words there would be something preceding and following and there is nothing.
Below is another clip of that section at full speed and two successively slower speeds with some of the high frequency noise filtered out.

AS911FLT3 - YouTube

cynic
12-03-2011, 09:10 PM
I uploaded the full 911 call to YouTube, here:
Adam Shacknai 911 call - YouTube

cynic
12-03-2011, 09:22 PM
Did he say it twice?
This is in a very difficult part of the call, but he may have said f…n kid here as well.
In the full clip in my previous post, it would be @ 1:05
In the video below are three audio clips of the same section using different techniques to enhance the audio.
ASFK2 - YouTube

ziggy
12-04-2011, 01:42 AM
I understand what you're thinking, but seriously I don't say anything before effing kidding me...not you're before it. It's kind of like y'all. I shorten everything. I can see cutting the end short and not saying the "ding" part of the kidding due to an interruption in thought in a tense situation. What's the point in speaking of Max like that?

ziggy
12-04-2011, 01:47 AM
She couldn't even be laid on her back because her hands were tied behind her back. So how did he do these chest compressions?

Yeah I don't know. He's just making those exertion sounds. Would an idiot in a panic beat on someone's chest without lying them on their back for lack of really knowing anything about CPR? I honestly don't know. Basic ignorance is not much of a shock to me anymore. But then again neither is the ability to greatly deceive. There are too many facts left out of this scenario for me; too many unanswered questions.

Yoda
12-04-2011, 02:15 AM
I’ve looked at the frequency output during that section and have done every conceivable audio boost to try and pick up anything before or after f…n kid and there is nothing, not even the faintest whisper.
Normally the full phrase would be “you’re f…n kidding me,” or, “you’ve got to be f…n kidding me,” etc, in other words there would be something preceding and following and there is nothing.
Below is another clip of that section at full speed and two successively slower speeds with some of the high frequency noise filtered out.

AS911FLT3 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSqvyyd3TQ4)

I have to deduce that defense101 and I have a special 'gift'. We aren't hearing what is said out loud, we are actually hearing the sentence as it goes through a persons mind. It's the only reasonable explanation.:innocent:

Peaceful
12-04-2011, 02:55 PM
I’ve looked at the frequency output during that section and have done every conceivable audio boost to try and pick up anything before or after f…n kid and there is nothing, not even the faintest whisper.
Normally the full phrase would be “you’re f…n kidding me,” or, “you’ve got to be f…n kidding me,” etc, in other words there would be something preceding and following and there is nothing.
Below is another clip of that section at full speed and two successively slower speeds with some of the high frequency noise filtered out.

AS911FLT3 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSqvyyd3TQ4)

Wow Cynic! Another brilliant job! Thank you so much. THIS example you have provided clearly remove the possibility it was anything other than f'ing kid he said. The examples before that left me still questioning the possibility there was an ing after kid. What an amazingly talented man you are! A genius! Loved your radio interview with Dr. Wecht. :yourock:

Peaceful
12-04-2011, 03:15 PM
Did he say it twice?
This is in a very difficult part of the call, but he may have said f…n kid here as well.
In the full clip in my previous post, it would be @ 1:05
In the video below are three audio clips of the same section using different techniques to enhance the audio.
ASFK2 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgIcLQNeBgM)


I do hear it twice. What a strange thing to say. There's the possibility he wasn't speaking of Max being that he wasn't the only kid that had been there. It's upsetting that the operator didn't tell him not to touch her. I would have thought that to be protocol?

Seemingly the time during which all this cursing is taking place, AS is rummaging through the kitchen in search of the knife to cut her down, correct? This confirms he had VERY quick access into the main house. Guess that wasn't interesting enough to be looked at further.

defense101
12-04-2011, 04:16 PM
Wow Cynic! Another brilliant job! Thank you so much. THIS example you have provided clearly remove the possibility it was anything other than f'ing kid he said. The examples before that left me still questioning the possibility there was an ing after kid. What an amazingly talented man you are! A genius! Loved your radio interview with Dr. Wecht. :yourock:
Nope, still hear the N...especially on the second one. Can't help what I hear :seeya:

jjenny
12-04-2011, 04:22 PM
I do hear it twice. What a strange thing to say. There's the possibility he wasn't speaking of Max being that he wasn't the only kid that had been there. It's upsetting that the operator didn't tell him not to touch her. I would have thought that to be protocol?

Seemingly the time during which all this cursing is taking place, AS is rummaging through the kitchen in search of the knife to cut her down, correct? This confirms he had VERY quick access into the main house. Guess that wasn't interesting enough to be looked at further.

The operator can't tell him not to touch her, because the operator doesn't know that she has been dead (for hours).

Peaceful
12-04-2011, 04:52 PM
The operator can't tell him not to touch her, because the operator doesn't know that she has been dead (for hours).

That makes sense to a certain extent but in my opinion, he could have been able to tell without cutting her down. Maybe not. We will never know either way. Appreciate the input very much!

defense101
12-04-2011, 06:53 PM
That makes sense to a certain extent but in my opinion, he could have been able to tell without cutting her down. Maybe not. We will never know either way. Appreciate the input very much! I agree, I think it would have been obvious that she was dead, but as you say we will never know...

lauriej
12-05-2011, 12:17 AM
Yeah I don't know. He's just making those exertion sounds. Would an idiot in a panic beat on someone's chest without lying them on their back for lack of really knowing anything about CPR? I honestly don't know. Basic ignorance is not much of a shock to me anymore. But then again neither is the ability to greatly deceive. There are too many facts left out of this scenario for me; too many unanswered questions.

..adamS is a captain on a tugboat. i would think he knows basic first aid , and probably CPR.

( i was a "lowly sailor" and we all had to cert in CPR.)

..at the very least-----while attempting to "save her" ---surely even an "idiot in a panic" would deal with the one thing that was suffocating her---cutting off the ROPE that was tied around her neck.

..and yet he didn't touch that.

ziggy
12-05-2011, 12:27 AM
..adamS is a captain on a tugboat. i would think he knows basic first aid , and probably CPR.

( i was a "lowly sailor" and we all had to cert in CPR.)

..at the very least-----while attempting to "save her" ---surely even an "idiot in a panic" would deal with the one thing that was suffocating her---cutting off the ROPE that was tied around her neck.

..and yet he didn't touch that.

Good points. I guess after being on this forum for umpteem years I tend to now hold people to the lowest standard and not the standard of what I think "they should know or what they should do". People are not as bright and not as capable as I think they should be ever! I do realize that there are reasonable standards - so maybe I should phrase it that way...I find the average person is not as knowledgeable about first aid etc. as you would imagine or tend to react completely out of character in a crisis.

I'm trying to minimally read into a person's action or omission to act without more facts. It's not the most dependable information.

coastal
12-05-2011, 01:06 AM
Did he say it twice?
This is in a very difficult part of the call, but he may have said f…n kid here as well.
In the full clip in my previous post, it would be @ 1:05
In the video below are three audio clips of the same section using different techniques to enhance the audio.
ASFK2 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgIcLQNeBgM)

Maybe I'm projecting, but I hear "y' gottabe f-KIN' KIDD'n' me!"
I can understand that sentiment coming from him, considering what had happened at that house and to his family just a day or so earlier.

But, I'll listen again.
Thank you, cynic.

defense101
12-05-2011, 01:12 AM
I do have to say though thank heavens he did cut her down otherwise the video shown around the world would have been far more gruesome than it was.:maddening:

jjenny
12-05-2011, 01:52 AM
I do have to say though thank heavens he did cut her down otherwise the video shown around the world would have been far more gruesome than it was.:maddening:

I am really not worried about a video as I am about finding what happened to her. By cutting he down, the potential crime scene was compromised, to say the least.

lauriej
12-05-2011, 02:26 AM
..also--what's weird. ( as if this whole case isn't..)

..in the M.E. report, and Detective Tsuida's report ( which they say is info gathered from speaking to witnesses, reading detective's reports etc...)

.."adam said"--( in his statement i presume )---that he came out 'about 6:30' ----immediatley saw rebecca hanging, ran to get the knife, dragged over the table, cut her down-------and then, @ 6:48 , called 911.

..yet we hear ( allegedly ) him ON the 911 call running around doing these things.

..did he cut her down before, or during, the 911 call??

..if "during" -----what was he doing for the approx. other 18 minutes??

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B54MtfXlxRJbYjA3YzY2MTItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDg tMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en
--rebecca A/R---M.E. investigator report---

defense101
12-05-2011, 10:53 AM
I am really not worried about a video as I am about finding what happened to her. By cutting he down, the potential crime scene was compromised, to say the least. Of course it was, but nothing said today can undo the fact that it was done, for the sake of the family I'm glad she was cut down, and as the ME didn't get there for what 14 hours it would have been awful for the family, the pictures and videos out there would have been far more disturbing.

nanwv
12-05-2011, 12:24 PM
If he really cut her down. I have trouble believing much of anything they "say".

coastal
12-05-2011, 02:10 PM
If he really cut her down. I have trouble believing much of anything they "say".
That's a good point, nanwv. So much is so different from the official version of events, trusting any of "them" about any of it gets harder all the time.

Welcome to Websleuths! :seeya:

defense101
12-05-2011, 03:37 PM
I really wonder how long she actually was lying in the grass, did he actually go to the kitchen get knife, come back get table,drag table on brick path, lose table leg, move table again to be supported by the cactus climb up get ahold of her, cut her down all while he was on the phone for that short period of time before he claims to be doing cpr on the 911 call? In the autopsy report it states that all of this was done prior to the 911 call so which is it? If it actually was done prior what the heck is he doing while on the phone? Setting up the scene? Look at the angle of the rope laying on the grass that heads to the right of the table, so he supposedly came down off the table on side supported by the cactus, IMO that would have tipped the table over no? We didn't hear him falling on the 911 call and the table was in the upright position in the police photos.

Bonepile
12-05-2011, 04:22 PM
I really wonder if the whole suicide from the balcony was not staged and that the murder happened elsewhere perhaps in the guest house? And I believe both Shacknai brothers are in it together, or they are very good at covering up for whoever did it, and making the Sheriff's department and their "11 investigators" believe it as well.

Peaceful
12-05-2011, 09:39 PM
Good evening everyone,

I have found this article to be a MUST read: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_6_77/ai_n27504386/?tag=content;col1

It is very interesting what AS chooses to repeat throughout this 911 call. Specifically the part about the girl hung herself and the same place you picked up the kid. IMO, his intention is to make the 911 operator make a connection between Rebecca's death and Max's death as well as place the blame on her for her demise, removing the blame from himself. "The kid?" "yesterday"? (didn't sleep much that night?) "I got a girl?"??? HUNG HERSELF??? BS!

And what was he doing for 18 minutes before he called 911?

I had assumed he was cutting her down during the 911 call but I now realize that is not likely the case based on the statements he provided to police.

What a ridiculous joke this whole thing is. This is seriously an insult to the public's intelligence.

jjenny
12-05-2011, 10:02 PM
Interesting article. Reading it, several things come to mind. At least in the part of the call that we have, AS is not asking them to send an ambulance to get medical help for RZ. And apparently when AS said "I got a girl" according to the article he took "personal possession of a problem."

"Why would individuals call the emergency line and concentrate on themselves, reporting a problem without asking the dispatcher for assistance for the person who needs it?"

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_6_77/ai_n27504386/pg_2/?tag=content;col1

coastal
12-06-2011, 02:45 PM
I’ve looked at the frequency output during that section and have done every conceivable audio boost to try and pick up anything before or after f…n kid and there is nothing, not even the faintest whisper.
Normally the full phrase would be “you’re f…n kidding me,” or, “you’ve got to be f…n kidding me,” etc, in other words there would be something preceding and following and there is nothing.
Below is another clip of that section at full speed and two successively slower speeds with some of the high frequency noise filtered out.

AS911FLT3 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSqvyyd3TQ4)
I hear "f-king KID" here...

I suppose Adam might have referred to Rebecca as "kid"; my ex-brother-in-law calls me "kiddo" to this day. But, he's twenty-six years older than I am, and was a father figure to ex after ex's dad died when ex was just 17. And, I was pretty much that, when we met (I was 25).

Had Jonah referred to Adam's 30yo girlfriend as "kid", I'd completely believe it, but Adam calling Rebecca that...not so much.

This says to me that even Adam immediately saw Rebecca's death as directly connected...to Maxie.

coastal
12-06-2011, 03:04 PM
Maybe I'm projecting, but I hear "y' gottabe f-KIN' KIDD'n' me!"
I can understand that sentiment coming from him, considering what had happened at that house and to his family just a day or so earlier.

But, I'll listen again.
Thank you, cynic.
Quoting myself to say that I hear "y' gottabe f-KIN' KIDD'n' me!" at 1:05 of the full version of the 911 tape cynic uploaded 12-3-2011 at 05:10PM.

coastal
12-06-2011, 03:09 PM
Good evening everyone,

I have found this article to be a MUST read: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_6_77/ai_n27504386/?tag=content;col1

It is very interesting what AS chooses to repeat throughout this 911 call. Specifically the part about the girl hung herself and the same place you picked up the kid. IMO, his intention is to make the 911 operator make a connection between Rebecca's death and Max's death as well as place the blame on her for her demise, removing the blame from himself. "The kid?" "yesterday"? (didn't sleep much that night?) "I got a girl?"??? HUNG HERSELF??? BS!

And what was he doing for 18 minutes before he called 911?

I had assumed he was cutting her down during the 911 call but I now realize that is not likely the case based on the statements he provided to police.

What a ridiculous joke this whole thing is. This is seriously an insult to the public's intelligence.
Fascinating! Thank you, Peaceful.

Mrs. Holmes
12-06-2011, 03:26 PM
I read the entire article it is fascinating. AS actually says he will "call back" at one point he is NOT focused on getting RZ help. He doesn't ask for an ambulance he doesn't describe her situation. Chilling and very telling!

jjenny
12-06-2011, 07:59 PM
At least in the part of the call that we have available AS does not ask for an ambulance-but since he said he was doing chest compression I presume he had to be thinking she could still make it-so that certainly makes me curious. Doesn't prove anything of course but after reading that article I am certainly curious as to why he didn't ask for an ambulance (at least according to the part of 911 call that we have available) and why he said "I got a girl" taking personal possession of a problem. And another thing I find curious-why isn't he using any names to describe either Max or Rebecca? Even when 911 can't figure out how to find a house he didn't use any names that could potentially help 911 to find a house-such as Max S. instead of "boy" being picked up from the home.

Peaceful
12-06-2011, 09:01 PM
At least in the part of the call that we have available AS does not ask for an ambulance-but since he said he was doing chest compression I presume he had to be thinking she could still make it-so that certainly makes me curious. Doesn't prove anything of course but after reading that article I am certainly curious as to why he didn't ask for an ambulance (at least according to the part of 911 call that we have available) and why he said "I got a girl" taking personal possession of a problem. And another thing I find curious-why isn't he using any names to describe either Max or Rebecca? Even when 911 can't figure out how to find a house he didn't use any names that could potentially help 911 to find a house-such as Max S. instead of "boy" being picked up from the home.

I said it before and ill say it again, I believe the purpose of him saying this is to connect the two incidents from the beginning of the thorough and scientific investigation. Very telling, for sure.

Sheriff Gore is a pompous a-hole if you ask me. His day will come.

dovebar
12-07-2011, 01:04 AM
At least in the part of the call that we have available AS does not ask for an ambulance-but since he said he was doing chest compression I presume he had to be thinking she could still make it-so that certainly makes me curious. Doesn't prove anything of course but after reading that article I am certainly curious as to why he didn't ask for an ambulance (at least according to the part of 911 call that we have available) and why he said "I got a girl" taking personal possession of a problem. And another thing I find curious-why isn't he using any names to describe either Max or Rebecca? Even when 911 can't figure out how to find a house he didn't use any names that could potentially help 911 to find a house-such as Max S. instead of "boy" being picked up from the home.

Yes, how about his just saying SPRECKELS MANSION. That seems to be the way everyone in San Diego knows it, and even if he didn't know the address, the 911 operator could google it in 2 seconds and get the address.

dovebar
12-07-2011, 01:26 AM
Thanks for posting that article.

It seems to me the call exhibits the following signs of guilt, unless I misremember:
- accepted the death of the victim
- resisted full cooperation by not responding to the dispatchers' inquiries, repeating words, and providing unclear responses.
- was there use of 'Huh?'
- could not immediately answer dispatcher questions because he had not tracked his own fabricated story
- does not continue with one thought process or uses self-interruptions and changes the direction of the topic.

cynic
12-07-2011, 11:01 PM
A phony 911 call can hurt you in front of a smart jury.
In the clip below, I have the 911 call followed by a juror’s analysis.

PH911C - YouTube

From the 48 Hours Mystery episode, House of Secrets
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/05/20/48hours/main20064743.shtml

Mrs. Holmes
12-08-2011, 02:49 AM
Well this fellow in the video was a doctor but still it makes you really re-think AS and the 911 call.

arielilane
12-09-2011, 07:39 PM
Just as a poster already has mentioned; I'm almost certain that the
"suicide" from the balcony was staged. The murder took place elsewhere, guesthouse? Who knows with the head injuries.

dovebar
12-09-2011, 09:31 PM
That would certainly be a Freudian slip by AS. He stated she was killed in the guesthouse. Maybe he was right.

1&2&3
12-09-2011, 09:41 PM
Among the amazing things to me besides what has been mentioned is the statement from Adam that "I"ll call you back" to the 911 operator when he does not know the address.

For me, Adam over dramatized this call! It seems he had been coached what needed to be included, he had practiced, and when the moment came he made the call, the operator asking him questions totally blew his thought process. After that, everything just came tumbling out! Bet JS was livid when he heard the call as I guarantee it is nothing like it was supposed to be! Consequently, Adam has been sent into a secret hiding place compliments of big brother!

dovebar
12-11-2011, 12:21 AM
It sure would be interesting to know how often innocent people hang up on the 911 operator!

It seems like the most natural thing to do - if you were trying to cut someone down or had to run somewhere - would be to stay on the phone, or say you were putting the phone down. If you were really frantic for help, you wouldn't sever the connection.

To me, it seems exactly what you said. He had planned to say one thing, but the questions put him off his game. He had to hang up to get his story together.

defense101
12-11-2011, 02:44 AM
Since Jonah has owned the mansion since 2007, what would be interesting would be to know if Adam had been to 1043 Ocean Blvd in previous years, if so then the possibility that his heavy breathing as if running to the front of the house to read the house numbers could be a ruse as well.

dovebar
12-11-2011, 03:36 AM
Another "tell" to me is that I always know the street I'm staying on. Even if I'm at a friend's and don't know the house number, I could give the street and the general vicinity on the street. Landmarks. "It's the big white house across from the blue house and the palm tree!"

Are we also supposed to think that AS had never sent JS a piece of mail? I know my siblings' and friends' addresses by heart.

justice be served
12-11-2011, 07:12 PM
Since Jonah has owned the mansion since 2007, what would be interesting would be to know if Adam had been to 1043 Ocean Blvd in previous years, if so then the possibility that his heavy breathing as if running to the front of the house to read the house numbers could be a ruse as well.

The article written by the Medicis author made a point, I believe, of mentioning that Adam ALWAYS stayed in the guest house. That, along with other specific points that seemed to be obviously mentioned, seemed odd then and now. I can look for the article.

justice be served
12-11-2011, 07:38 PM
The article written by the Medicis author made a point, I believe, of mentioning that Adam ALWAYS stayed in the guest house. That, along with other specific points that seemed to be obviously mentioned, seemed odd then and now. I can look for the article.

Here is the link to this tidbit of info:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/09/18/what-really-happened-in-the-coronado-mansion.html

'Zahau dropped Jonah back at the hospital a little before 8 p.m., and she and Adam returned to the mansion. It had been a long and stressful day and they were both exhausted, so they said their goodnights and Zahau retired to the main house. Adam, who had visited several times before, always bunked in the same room in the guesthouse, off the courtyard.'

This article mentions any number of 'facts' that seem important to the author (commissioner of the article more on point) such as when the children flew out. Why is where Adam usually stayed in the mansion so important to get that fact/factoid out there now that we know more after the 911 call, etc?

SunnieRN
12-19-2011, 06:46 PM
Here is the link to this tidbit of info:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/09/18/what-really-happened-in-the-coronado-mansion.html

'Zahau dropped Jonah back at the hospital a little before 8 p.m., and she and Adam returned to the mansion. It had been a long and stressful day and they were both exhausted, so they said their goodnights and Zahau retired to the main house. Adam, who had visited several times before, always bunked in the same room in the guesthouse, off the courtyard.'

This article mentions any number of 'facts' that seem important to the author (commissioner of the article more on point) such as when the children flew out. Why is where Adam usually stayed in the mansion so important to get that fact/factoid out there now that we know more after the 911 call, etc?

Funny though, that now the story is that they ate inside the hospital. And I still find it odd that all three of them, Rebecca, Adam and Jonah, would have taken Luber to the airport. He had a rental car and could have easily driven himself.

Also, was Luber at the hospital overnight? Lot's of Luber questions indeed.

Mrs. Holmes
12-21-2011, 01:40 PM
Funny though, that now the story is that they ate inside the hospital. And I still find it odd that all three of them, Rebecca, Adam and Jonah, would have taken Luber to the airport. He had a rental car and could have easily driven himself.

Also, was Luber at the hospital overnight? Lot's of Luber questions indeed.

Yes, his complete whereabouts need to be investigated. He has been in a relationship longer than anyone mentioned outside of family with JS

And with AS, JS could have asked AS to come to Coronado to help him force RZ to move out. The dog was already in the kennell that is a sign of trouble in the relationship.

Still shocked AS told LE he was whacking off to porn that morning. CREEPY!!!

Mrs. Holmes
12-21-2011, 01:44 PM
I wonder if JS EVER returned to the mansion since MS's accident? As I have mentioned DS came home... but JS didn't.... clear sign he blamed RZ.. especially the dog being put in the kennell... AND after he leaves the so called "devastating" voicemail.. RZ never calls him back?

If only LE had gotten a copy of the voicemail I think this case would be solved by now.

dovebar
12-22-2011, 02:18 AM
Funny though, that now the story is that they ate inside the hospital. And I still find it odd that all three of them, Rebecca, Adam and Jonah, would have taken Luber to the airport. He had a rental car and could have easily driven himself.

Also, was Luber at the hospital overnight? Lot's of Luber questions indeed.

I'm a little lost.
Where was Luber's rental car then - who returned it if he was driven to the airport?

A car would make a very private place to try to confront someone, or threaten someone, or get a story straight....

arielilane
01-02-2012, 06:14 PM
AS reflects same detachment in 911 call that Patsy Ramsey did in her 911 call.
Hyperventilating and never mentions JonBenet by name, only "daughter".

911-What is your name?
Patsy -"Patsy Ramsey, I'm the mother"
http://www.acandyrose.com/patsy911-FFJ.mp3 (http://www.acandyrose.com/patsy911-FFJ.mp3)

freespeech
07-16-2012, 02:16 AM
When I listen to it, I don't hear "F****n kid" I hear " F***ing kiddin' me."

I didn't hear "F***n kid" either. I heard "F***in kiddin' me" too.

freespeech
07-16-2012, 02:56 AM
Nope, still hear the N...especially on the second one. Can't help what I hear :seeya:

Me too. I also still hear the N...even after listening umpteen times. It's disturbing because it seems as though he's talking to someone else who was there with him.

I've wondered if that could be why they took so long to release the tape. Another person's voice could have been edited out. That could be a reason for the 8 second gap of dead silence.

freespeech
07-16-2012, 03:06 AM
If he really cut her down. I have trouble believing much of anything they "say".

I agree. Adam was the only witness that stated she was hanging. He was also allegedly the last to see her alive and the first to find her deceased.

His LDT result was inconclusive. The polygrapher recommended that Adam retake the test but her never did. So why did Gore decided to believe Adam's statements rather than investigate further? Did know Gore know Adam well enough to personally vouch for him?

I don't understand the logic that he used to call that one. :twocents:

freespeech
07-16-2012, 03:21 AM
Did he say it twice?
This is in a very difficult part of the call, but he may have said f…n kid here as well.
In the full clip in my previous post, it would be @ 1:05
In the video below are three audio clips of the same section using different techniques to enhance the audio.
ASFK2 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgIcLQNeBgM)


To me it sounds like he's saying "you're sh**in" to someone else who is there with him. After Adam says "you're sh**n" there's an echoey sound that overlays and distorts another voice. The other voice is unintelligible but kind of sounds something like"why don't you be quiet..." Seems to me that the tape was tampered.

scorekeeper
08-10-2012, 09:52 PM
Another tape with a missing section....

When he asks if they got the address, the first thought I had was - it was like he had expected someone else to have already given them the address. Was there someone else there in the background (possibly on the grassy knoll...sorry wrong thread)

Could be possible that he had a blue tooth on...it sounded like he was doing CPR on something that had "air" in it....didn't sound right to me

Why is there so much "time" when the operator is not talking to him.. on the few occasions I have had to call 911 they were continuously asking me questions about the person/situation...why do we hear all this back ground stuff going on...moving the table...table leg breaking...Did not the operator recognize the Shacknai name??

girl, kid, guesthouse...never giving AS second lie detector ... .something is totally wrong with this case....

The whole tape is weird...:waitasec:

CuriousGeorgia
08-11-2012, 02:59 AM
Yes, how about his just saying SPRECKELS MANSION. That seems to be the way everyone in San Diego knows it, and even if he didn't know the address, the 911 operator could google it in 2 seconds and get the address.

Uh, cause maybe it's not his house, he lives in Memphis, he's only visiting, he doesn't know the address and doesn't know it by Spreckles, it is 6:45 in the morning, he hasn't had his coffee and he's just found his brother's girlfriend hanging???!!!

I bet you he's saying, "your f'n kidding me" when he sees the bindings".

I think he is doing his best to get her down to see if she is alive. I think he did the best he could under the circumstances.

time
08-11-2012, 01:43 PM
Another tape with a missing section....

When he asks if they got the address, the first thought I had was - it was like he had expected someone else to have already given them the address. Was there someone else there in the background (possibly on the grassy knoll...sorry wrong thread)

Could be possible that he had a blue tooth on...it sounded like he was doing CPR on something that had "air" in it....didn't sound right to me

Why is there so much "time" when the operator is not talking to him.. on the few occasions I have had to call 911 they were continuously asking me questions about the person/situation...why do we hear all this back ground stuff going on...moving the table...table leg breaking...Did not the operator recognize the Shacknai name??

girl, kid, guesthouse...never giving AS second lie detector ... .something is totally wrong with this case....

The whole tape is weird...:waitasec:


Thanks for pointing all that out ... this is one of the creepiest 911 calls I have ever heard, most notably because he turns to an obviously dead body and asks her a question, like it's funny - that in itself is degrading, but in addition, he doesn't even identify her as someone he knows, let alone as someone living in the house. As far as I see it, that is ironic given it was Rebecca's home and he was a guest.

CuriousGeorgia
08-11-2012, 02:06 PM
I think he was just trying to give the 911 operator the basics, girl, boy, etc. And the operator was being a real witch...not helpful at ALL.

deanna82437
08-11-2012, 02:25 PM
OT


:ufo:

/OT

Posted prior to TO ..

jjenny
08-11-2012, 03:22 PM
I agree. Adam was the only witness that stated she was hanging. He was also allegedly the last to see her alive and the first to find her deceased.

His LDT result was inconclusive. The polygrapher recommended that Adam retake the test but her never did. So why did Gore decided to believe Adam's statements rather than investigate further? Did know Gore know Adam well enough to personally vouch for him?

I don't understand the logic that he used to call that one. :twocents:

And as I recall, Nina didn't take a LTD at all, despite admitting trying to talk to Rebecca on the very night in question. And police didn't seem to care.

NatalieRose
08-13-2012, 02:12 AM
Yes, his complete whereabouts need to be investigated. He has been in a relationship longer than anyone mentioned outside of family with JS

And with AS, JS could have asked AS to come to Coronado to help him force RZ to move out. The dog was already in the kennell that is a sign of trouble in the relationship.

Still shocked AS told LE he was whacking off to porn that morning. CREEPY!!!

JS needed a seed planted, so he asked AS to come to Coronado.

Heal
07-20-2013, 11:57 PM
For AS, the one with glasses and in light colored clothes seems to be the only photo we could find online, a not clear one. A few questions:

1. Was he not wearing glasses when he discovered RZ's body that morning (so he could not see clear)? Or was he?

2. Upon discovering the body, what did he do immediately? Call 911? or cut off the rope? or contact his brother JS? Why?

3. Based on the 911 tape and the transcript, seems he was moving the table, thus seems he was cutting off the rope during the 911 call. If so, why did he not cut off the rope to try rescue BEFORE the 911 call? Most people would cut off the rope before any 911 call, especially because the body was hanging in the house instead of, say, on the street. If he did cut off the rope before, then what was he moving during the 911 call making all the noises?

4. (Assuming he was not aware of RZ's death before that early morning), upon discovering the body, did he recognize it was RZ hanging? or just a girl?

Heal
07-21-2013, 12:54 AM
More questions:

1. At the very beginning of the 911 tape, AS's voice was overall calm, not panicked, but yet with very heavy and frequent panting. If he was not doing any heavy lifting right before the 911 call, such panting would seem not justifiable, unless he was faking it intentionally. Was there really a statement given by AS to the police stating he cut off the rope before the 911 call?

2. I read online in many places that AS notified JS via text of RZ's death. Did AS contact JS in any other way (phone, voice mail) that morning before that text? If not, then it would seem not justifiable, unless AS was VERY used to texting (like the teenagers), and seldom phones, or unless AS was having a drug issue.

Heal
07-21-2013, 01:21 AM
They should investigate if AS was having a drug issue, and if he was having a head to toe lycra/spandex body suit.

"she saved him can you save her", unless RZ was having a serious multiple personality disorder, it would be very hard to explain a suicide. If AS was having a drug issue, it would explain it.

arielilane
07-21-2013, 10:40 AM
Welcome to Websleuths, Heal. While this may not answer some of your questions I have posted (courtesy of BettyP's timeline post dated 10-20-12) the following:

July 13


6:30 AM – Adam Shacknai said he awoke and made his way to the main house.
- He saw Rebecca hanging, ran to the kitchen to find a knife, pulled a table underneath her and cut her down.
6:48 AM - 911 is called. Adam stating he found Rebecca and was attempting CPR. He claims the t- shirt was covering Rebecca’s mouth so he removed it in order to try to perform CPR as instructed to do by the 911 dispatch (told him to take the gag out of her mouth).

– Coronado Police Dept are the first to respond. Unable to locate a pulse they began CPR.
- At this time, Jonah claims he received a text message from Adam advising Rebecca had hung herself.

6:54 AM - Coronado Fire Dept arrived. Rebecca was cold to the touch and rigor mortis was present in her jaw. They pronounced Rebecca deceased. They quickly decide they do not have the resources to deal with a homicide and call in San Diego County to help.

7:00 AM – Dina, who was at Max’s bedside, received a call from Jonah telling her Rebecca had killed herself. At this time Jonah returns to the hospital.

8:09 AM - The ME is called.
9:20 AM - SDSO arrives at Spreckels’s Manson
– Jonah calls Rebecca’s sister Mary, but reaches her husband Doug instead. Jonah informs him that Rebecca has killed herself.
– Adam Shacknai is interviewed by Detectives Lebitski and Hillen. He claims he was viewing porn on his Iphone just before he found Rebecca hanging from balcony.
– Attorney Paul Pfingst shows up at the mansion, won’t say who he’s representing, but does say it’s not Jonah.
– Later Adam is given a polygraph examination by Paul Redden. Redden says he couldn’t draw a conclusion. He recommends that Adam be given a 2nd test but was never asked by SDSO to do the follow up.
– Special Agents Resendiz and Burtis from the DOJ interview Dina. She tells the agents she left Rady Hospital on the 12th at about 8:00 AM and returned at 8:00 PM.
– Jonah Shacknai is interviewed by Detectives Norton and Palmer.
7:15 PM - 13 hours after Rebecca’s body is discovered the ME finally arrives. They determine Rebecca’s death to be somewhere between 1:00 AM and 3:00 AM

Heal
07-21-2013, 12:11 PM
Thanks!

Well, I noticed something:

Per the 911 call, within the 1st 40 seconds:

AS: I’m not sure, uh…, 19… on the back house it’s 1928 something, uh, I’m not sure. Let me call you back.

(AS remains on the phone, however)

911 Operator: Okay sir, is she still alive?

AS: I don’t know.


1. "Let me call you back": don't people generally say something like "I'll get back to you" instead of "let me call you back" in such circumstances? It gives me an impression that AS was caught off guard when being asked the address.

2. "I don't know": seriously? "I don't know."? If AS really did finish the whole process of cutting off the rope and laying RZ on the ground before the 911 call, would he not feel she was already dead? RZ's body was cold already, no heart beat, no breathing.

3. While trying rescuing RZ at any point, before or during the 911 call, did AS ever try mouth-to-mouth resuscitation? If he knew RZ was already dead, then trying mouth-to-mouth would be sickening for him to do since it would be like kissing a corpse on the lips, then likely he would not do.

4. I read online in multiple sources, such as the one below, that AS only started cutting off the rope DURING the 911 call, not before:

http://www.cbs8.com/story/16150816/911-call-released-in-hanging-death-at-coronados-spreckels-mansion


Welcome to Websleuths, Heal. While this may not answer some of your questions I have posted (courtesy of BettyP's timeline post dated 10-20-12) the following:

July 13


6:30 AM – Adam Shacknai said he awoke and made his way to the main house.
- He saw Rebecca hanging, ran to the kitchen to find a knife, pulled a table underneath her and cut her down.
6:48 AM - 911 is called. Adam stating he found Rebecca and was attempting CPR. He claims the t- shirt was covering Rebecca’s mouth so he removed it in order to try to perform CPR as instructed to do by the 911 dispatch (told him to take the gag out of her mouth).

– Coronado Police Dept are the first to respond. Unable to locate a pulse they began CPR.
- At this time, Jonah claims he received a text message from Adam advising Rebecca had hung herself.

6:54 AM - Coronado Fire Dept arrived. Rebecca was cold to the touch and rigor mortis was present in her jaw. They pronounced Rebecca deceased. They quickly decide they do not have the resources to deal with a homicide and call in San Diego County to help.

7:00 AM – Dina, who was at Max’s bedside, received a call from Jonah telling her Rebecca had killed herself. At this time Jonah returns to the hospital.

8:09 AM - The ME is called.
9:20 AM - SDSO arrives at Spreckels’s Manson
– Jonah calls Rebecca’s sister Mary, but reaches her husband Doug instead. Jonah informs him that Rebecca has killed herself.
– Adam Shacknai is interviewed by Detectives Lebitski and Hillen. He claims he was viewing porn on his Iphone just before he found Rebecca hanging from balcony.
– Attorney Paul Pfingst shows up at the mansion, won’t say who he’s representing, but does say it’s not Jonah.
– Later Adam is given a polygraph examination by Paul Redden. Redden says he couldn’t draw a conclusion. He recommends that Adam be given a 2nd test but was never asked by SDSO to do the follow up.
– Special Agents Resendiz and Burtis from the DOJ interview Dina. She tells the agents she left Rady Hospital on the 12th at about 8:00 AM and returned at 8:00 PM.
– Jonah Shacknai is interviewed by Detectives Norton and Palmer.
7:15 PM - 13 hours after Rebecca’s body is discovered the ME finally arrives. They determine Rebecca’s death to be somewhere between 1:00 AM and 3:00 AM

Heal
07-21-2013, 12:32 PM
IMHO, the 911 call tape is a very important piece of evidence.

1. Only several hours after the death. The involved people were having a hard time concealing everything, no matter how well they had planned.

2. The call lasted rather long, about 4 minutes 45 seconds. It was extremely hard for anyone to fake EVERYTHING on such a long call, with or without a script.

3. Overall, after listening to the 911 call, I perceive that AS was questionable.

Heal
07-21-2013, 12:35 PM
Does anyone here have the MS 911 call made by RZ? If so, could you post a link? Thanks.

Zinn
07-21-2013, 12:53 PM
IMHO, the 911 call tape is a very important piece of evidence.

1. Only several hours after the death. The involved people were having a hard time concealing everything, no matter how well they had planned.

2. The call lasted rather long, about 4 minutes 45 seconds. It was extremely hard for anyone to fake EVERYTHING on such a long call, with or without a script.

3. Overall, after listening to the 911 call, I perceive that AS was questionable.

I wonder if the Zahaus were successful in obtaining the missing 8 seconds of 911 tape. I suspect they were not. I wonder if it still exists somewhere or if it has been destroyed. IIRC, the missing part occurs when AS gets his first close-up look at Rebecca.

As for not knowing if Rebecca was dead, not knowing the address, perceiving a woman with ankle bindings and a gag as a suicide victim, and claiming to perform CPR with wrist bindings still in place, I sometimes wonder if all this was intentional. I go back and forth between a couple scenarios that make sense to me.

I imagine a scenario in which the scene screams murder with no attempt to cover it up at all. In fact, it seems to me the murderer is someone who thinks people are idiots and need to see knives, bindings, bumps on the head, a clear rope trail over a balcony, and even a message painted on the door equating the two incidents to be sure they understand Rebecca's murder was a direct response to what happened to Max. To me, it seems like an assault against the person discovering her body, in addition to an assault against Rebecca. But the subsequent tampering with evidence and 911 call has my mind going in two different directions.

Sometimes, I wonder if AS really did discover Rebecca's body that morning, perhaps then reaching out to JS and getting instructions to call it in to 911 as a suicide, perhaps without knowledge of the scene that would later be discovered inside the house. Other times, I wonder if the 911 call was just an extension of the heavy-handed attempt to simulate what someone believed happened to Max (death scene doesn't match what was reported to police, reporting person doesn't know address, reporting person claims to provide CPR, etc).

All of the above is just my opinion.

Heal
07-21-2013, 01:46 PM
Found the transcript of a conversation between AS and the polygrpher. Thanks!

So, per:

"I got a knife with the butcher block thing -- came back out -- cut her down -- and tried called 9-1-1 shortly thereafter -- if not before"

AS could have cut her down AFTER/DURING (not before) the 911 call, and per the 911 call, it seems so.


Originally Posted by Carioca View Post
Oops, posted this on wrong thread, so have moved it here... Apologies.
Not easy to discern certain AS' words at times. His thoughts often jump nonsensically. All corrections welcome:

News 8 Exclusive - The polygraph examination of Adam Shacknai
http://www.cbs8.com/story/22221589/n...nttype=generic

Date: 7/13/2011
Time video begins: 7:33:17PM

AS: I think.. I got to reach her and realized I wasn't going to be able to get her off without a knife. You know I tried -- I realized -- quite quickly. You know I realized this thing will happen like this. I went around the back into the house which the door was open. I got a knife with the butcher block thing -- came back out -- cut her down -- and tried called 9-1-1 shortly thereafter -- if not before.

PR: OK. Did you at any point think she was alive?

AS: I'm well.. you know. Call me a can-do person or something -- but -- probably not. But I thought, how would I answer -- for this if I didn't try something. I'm a responsible person.

PR: OK. Tried some CPR?

AS: Yeah

PR: OK. Have you been trained in that? With the boat stuff?

AS: Years and years ago. Not enough to amount to anything.

PR: OK. So, tried some CPR. Now -- and so -- was there anything else unusual? What kind of chain (unintelligible?) was it, like a bed sheet or what?

AS: It was a ******ing rope, man. Red rope. Unless my memory is failing me, you know, something -- it wasn't just something that you would be laying around, somewhere. I wouldn't think.

PR: Alright. So could you tell whether it was a material or something?

AS: Kinda like a Kevlar, synthetic

PR: OK. Like nylon...

AS: Yeah

PR: Or something like that?

PR: OK, and -- so what, there were no shoes, not a stitch on?

AS: Not that I recall

PR: So her hands were hanging down by her side then?

AS: I don't know because here's the thing. I don't remember about her hands. Because after I cut her down I went to take her pulse -- you know -- at some point, which I didn't even do at first. I remember having to get something out of the way -- of her hands -- and that's why I've been asking these detectives and stuff if she was tied up or what. I mean I'm like, I'm kind of in all a blur [cross talk]...

PR: Blur yeah.

AS: You know but -- but I remember having to move something to try to get her pulse out of the way -- you know very much [cross talk]

PR: You don't remember anything unusual?

AS: I don't remember that, but I just -- I fear -- I hope to God she wasn't tied up but -- and again -- I asked the detectives there -- you know -- I don't recall.

PR: Now as far as the CPR. You did the chest compressions and you did blow in her mouth, in her nose?

AS: I got the -- once I got 9-1-1 on the line, I went ahead and blew in her mouth.

PR: OK. And her mouth was open and clear and everything?

AS: I didn't even do all that at first. I should have. I didn't. I didn't do that tilt. I think they said tilt the head back and do that. I didn't do any of that stuff.

PR: OK

AS: I just put my mouth over hers and said **** it, it's my brother's girlfriend and I'll do it. And I did it.

PR: And there was no tape across her mouth or anything like this?

AS: No. There was a ******ing gag in her mouth though.

PR: A gag in her mouth?

AS: Yeah

PR: What was that?

AS: Something, yeah. I had to pull something out of her ****ing mouth. It was like a blue scarf.

[time stamp jumps from 7:36:54PM to 7:40:29PM]

PR: Does it seem to you like it's a suicide then at that point?

AS: YES ABSOLUTELY [AS sits forward in chair, then leans back]

PR: OK, and what makes you think that?

AS: It's just what crossed my mind you know -- just because -- I thought she was THERE, when Max got hurt,supposedly. UM UM -- you know maybe she just can't LIVE with it, you know. I've never been in that situation. I'm not going to -- I can't say that I could, especially if it was someone else's kid, you know.

PR: Did she seem suicidal or anything like that?

AS: No. I don't get -- you know, I mean -- you just don't ever think of that.

[time stamp jumps from 7:40:29PM to 8:11:49PM]

PR: Look straight ahead listen and concentrate on each question.

AS: OK

PR: Only respond yes or no

AS: OK

PR: But the most important thing of all is what?

AS: Be honest?

PR: That's it. Be honest, don't lie, be honest in your answers [unintelligible]

PR: Regarding the death of Rebecca, do you know for sure if anyone did anything to hurt her that resulted in her death?

AS: No

PR: Regarding the death of Rebecca, did you yourself do anything to her that resulted in her death?

AS: No

PR: Regarding the death of Rebecca, were you in that guest room that she was found hanging from at any time during the night?

AS: No

[time stamp jumps from 8:22:47PM to 8:40:19PM]

PR: These are hard tests to do when you're this close to what's going on here like you said...

AS: Yeah

PR: Because it's hard to get rid of that emotional factor

AS: Right

PR: Um, and you could have done a whole lot worse on the test (AS shakes head). And you could have done a whole lot better too.

AS: (makes a psshoo sound - snaps finger)

PR: Based on what I've got here -- we're kind of in the inconclusive range. But it clearly doesn't bother me that much, because I think that if you were (unintelligible) that close, there is no way I could prevent you from giving me SOME reaction. But as far as being involved in it, I am not INCLINED to believe that. Um, but you're definitely not flunking my test, so that's kinda -- somewhat of a good thing.

[Time stamp jumps from 8:41:44PM to 8:44:44PM]

PR: Appreciate your cooperation. I know it's a tough thing to do and certainly appreciate you working with us on this. Wasn't so bad, was it?

AS: It was.

PR: It wasn't as bad as you thought it was going to be though?

AS: It was.

PR: It was?

AS: Yeah.

[Time stamp ends 8:44:56PM]

-----------------------------

There were 10 questions. The video only includes 3 of them. Within the first 12 hours Rebecca's death was being investigated as a homicide. AS discovered her body, thus any investigation would consider him a POI. Why is Mr Redden so darn appreciative and accommodating to AS?! Will comment more on this under separate comment.

Heal
07-21-2013, 01:54 PM
Since it seems obvious that AS did not cut the rope BEFORE the 911 call, I wonder what he did immediately after discovering RZ's body hanging if he was not involved in RZ's death. I speculate that AS called his brother JS immediately and the two talked, and AS was instructed by JS to text JS later notifying JS of RZ's death via writing, a traceable way.

I am not saying JS was directly involved in RZ's death. Both JS and DS seem to have very tight alibi and seem to not have the opportunity/time to have gone over to JS's house to do anything that night.

*Lash*
07-21-2013, 02:02 PM
Since it seems obvious that AS did not cut the rope BEFORE the 911 call, I wonder what he did immediately after discovering RZ's body hanging if he was not involved in RZ's death. I speculate that AS called his brother JS immediately and the two talked, and AS was instructed by JS to text JS later notifying JS of RZ's death via writing, a traceable way.

I am not saying JS was directly involved in RZ's death. Both JS and DS seem to have very tight alibi and seem to not have the opportunity/time to have gone over to JS's house to do anything the night.

Adam and Jonah's phone records would show if a call was made earlier. Jonah's phone records were requested via a SW including any existing landline. Adam's phone records were not.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-164.pdf
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-165.pdf

In my opinion, Dina does not have a tight alibi. She was not seen on video surveillance, but Jonah was captured. Why was she not seen and Jonah was? The only alibi we know of at this time for Dina is her cellphone. Since cellphones are not surgically attached to our bodies, I believe Dina could have been anywhere while her phone was at the hospital.

*Lash*
07-21-2013, 02:24 PM
Does anyone here have the MS 911 call made by RZ? If so, could you post a link? Thanks.

Hi Heal!

The 911 call for Max has not been released to the public. There was a portion played on the Dr. Phil show. A small snip of XZ, but not Rebecca. I believe it is near the beginning of the 2nd DP show.

DrPhil 9/21/2012- YouTube

Zinn
07-21-2013, 02:26 PM
Adam and Jonah's phone records would show if a call was made earlier. Jonah's phone records were requested via a SW including any existing landline. Adam's phone records were not.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-164.pdf
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-165.pdf

In my opinion, Dina does not have a tight alibi. She was not seen on video surveillance, but Jonah was captured. Why was she not seen and Jonah was? The only alibi we know of at this time for Dina is her cellphone. Since cellphones are not surgically attached to our bodies, I believe Dina could have been anywhere while her phone was at the hospital.

Completely agree about DS's cell phone and alibi (or lack of alibi).

Incidentally, per Nina's audio interview, DS and JS shared a room at RMH. Not that they were in the room at the same time, but she claimed they both utilized the room. Gore said DS's cell phone pinged in the vicinity of the hospital, so that would cover the RMH room, I suppose.

As for whether calls were exchanged between JS and AS, I'm not certain that would have been revealed, even if phone records indicated calls were placed. The public only became aware of NR's late night text to Rebecca when Rebecca's phone records were published. Before then, I didn't even know DS had a sister, let alone a sister who texted Rebecca that evening.

All of the above is just my opinion.

Heal
07-21-2013, 02:30 PM
Thanks!

IMHO, AS is very questionable:

1. He did not cut the rope before the 911 call. Why? When you see someone hanging in your house (even if you are only visiting), your first response is to immediately cut off the rope so as to try rescue. If the body is too heavy, you will shout and get neighbors/help to do it together. However, if AS was involved in RZ's death, then he knew RZ was already dead, then certainly his 1st response could be not cutting off the rope. Also, since he did not cut the rope before 911 call, why was he having very heavy and frequent panting/breathing within the 1st 40 seconds of the 911 call while maintaining an overall calm voice tone? What did he do could have caused the panting? Or was he simply faking it? Then he realized he had not even cut off the rope yet, so he panicked and rushed starting to cut off the rope.

2. JS could have used a prepaid disposable phone for AS to call (just a possibility).

3. AS's video interview with the polygrapher shows he seemed extremely far away from being classy.


Adam and Jonah's phone records would show if a call was made earlier. Jonah's phone records were requested via a SW including any existing landline. Adam's phone records were not.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-164.pdf
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-165.pdf

In my opinion, Dina does not have a tight alibi. She was not seen on video surveillance, but Jonah was captured. Why was she not seen and Jonah was? The only alibi we know of at this time for Dina is her cellphone. Since cellphones are not surgically attached to our bodies, I believe Dina could have been anywhere while her phone was at the hospital.

Betty P
07-21-2013, 02:48 PM
Hi Heal!

The 911 call for Max has not been released to the public. There was a portion played on the Dr. Phil show. A small snip of XZ, but not Rebecca. I believe it is near the beginning of the 2nd DP show.

DrPhil 9/21/2012- YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xY9hKtT0hI)

DR has access to the 911 tapes for MS, but has chosen to only make public the small snippet on the Dr. Phil show. I wonder why she has chosen to keep the rest private?

K_Z
07-21-2013, 03:22 PM
Adam and Jonah's phone records would show if a call was made earlier. Jonah's phone records were requested via a SW including any existing landline. Adam's phone records were not.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-164.pdf
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-165.pdf

In my opinion, Dina does not have a tight alibi. She was not seen on video surveillance, but Jonah was captured. Why was she not seen and Jonah was? The only alibi we know of at this time for Dina is her cellphone. Since cellphones are not surgically attached to our bodies, I believe Dina could have been anywhere while her phone was at the hospital.

IMO, of the 3 named defendants/ respondents, the explanation for Dina's alibi/ whereabouts is the weakest. There have been comments here and elsewhere that there are hospital staff who will verify her presence at the bedside. I'm looking forward to these witnesses being called to clear this up. Hopefully, these nurses and staff documented the presence or absence of parents at the bedside in their notes for Max's care, as their memory alone of who was at the bedside that night is unreliable. For this reason, to alibi Dina, I believe Max's medical records will have to be subpoenaed as evidence in RZ's wrongful death suit that names Dina a defendant/ respondent.

IMO, it is completely unrealistic that Dina would not show up on a single security camera. Hospitals have lots of security cameras, and even more stringent security after hours limiting which entrances and exits can be used, etc. that she could not be seen on any camera in the hospital or RMH is very suspicious, to say the least.

*Lash*
07-22-2013, 10:01 AM
Since it seems obvious that AS did not cut the rope BEFORE the 911 call, I wonder what he did immediately after discovering RZ's body hanging if he was not involved in RZ's death. I speculate that AS called his brother JS immediately and the two talked, and AS was instructed by JS to text JS later notifying JS of RZ's death via writing, a traceable way.

I am not saying JS was directly involved in RZ's death. Both JS and DS seem to have very tight alibi and seem to not have the opportunity/time to have gone over to JS's house to do anything that night.

When did AS cut Rebecca down? When asked by polygraph examiner Paul Redden AS said it was after the call to 911 if not before. Which is it AS? For goodness sake AS could remember the color of what he worded as a "gag" he found in Rebecca's mouth but he couldn't remember when he cut Rebecca down? In my opinion, it is possible the detailed memory of the "blue gag" could be because AS had more to do with the "blue gag" other than removing it from Rebecca's mouth. The gag that was blue was stored in his memory bank from a previous encounter with it. AS labeled the blue shirt as a gag. Where did gag come from? Why didn't he just say something was in her mouth? People who commit suicide don't usually gag themselves. It seems off to me because I would not have thought suicide if I had found someone hanging with a gag in their mouth. I don't know, i guess we really don't know how we would react or what we might remember if we really found ourselves in that situation.

screecher
07-22-2013, 11:48 AM
Since it seems obvious that AS did not cut the rope BEFORE the 911 call, I wonder what he did immediately after discovering RZ's body hanging if he was not involved in RZ's death. I speculate that AS called his brother JS immediately and the two talked, and AS was instructed by JS to text JS later notifying JS of RZ's death via writing, a traceable way.

I am not saying JS was directly involved in RZ's death. Both JS and DS seem to have very tight alibi and seem to not have the opportunity/time to have gone over to JS's house to do anything that night.

BBM

Jonah does have an alibi.

Dina R. has no alibi and she was seen lurking around Jonah's mansion.

Heal
07-22-2013, 12:03 PM
Thanks!

I read online in many widely-known news websites stating DS has an alibi (staying at bedside all night, etc) and the hospital has record proving such etc... but after reading the threads here I think DS's alibi is still questionable.


BBM

Jonah does have an alibi.

Dina R. has no alibi and she was seen lurking around Jonah's mansion.

*Lash*
07-22-2013, 12:09 PM
Thanks!

I read online in many widely-known news websites stating DS has an alibi (staying at bedside all night, etc) and the hospital has record proving such etc... but after reading the threads here I think DS's alibi is still questionable.

It didn't help either at the 9/2 SDSO press conference we were told Dina and Jonah were on surveillance. It wasn't until later after the first Dr. Phil show in Nov. when the question was pushed further and SDSO decided to be truthful about Dina's alibi was her phone triangulation.

IQuestion
07-22-2013, 11:13 PM
When did AS cut Rebecca down? When asked by polygraph examiner Paul Redden AS said it was after the call to 911 if not before. Which is it AS? For goodness sake AS could remember the color of what he worded as a "gag" he found in Rebecca's mouth but he couldn't remember when he cut Rebecca down? In my opinion, it is possible the detailed memory of the "blue gag" could be because AS had more to do with the "blue gag" other than removing it from Rebecca's mouth. The gag that was blue was stored in his memory bank from a previous encounter with it. AS labeled the blue shirt as a gag. Where did gag come from? Why didn't he just say something was in her mouth? People who commit suicide don't usually gag themselves. It seems off to me because I would not have thought suicide if I had found someone hanging with a gag in their mouth. I don't know, i guess we really don't know how we would react or what we might remember if we really found ourselves in that situation.

LASH! I am going to change your name to FLASH! as in NEWS FLASH!! You are a genius. I could hardly keep up with the articles you were posting when the lawsuit was first announced....you do so many things in a FLASH.... and awfully smart too! Yep, "gag in her mouth", "girl hung herself", "ya know not bein' her kid and all"....this guy has the entire death scene and reasoning down pat, huh? But can't remember when he cut her down....I would think that is a pretty significant event in a person's life...especially for a "can-do-responsible-guy".....oh my!

*Lash*
07-23-2013, 01:02 PM
LASH! I am going to change your name to FLASH! as in NEWS FLASH!! You are a genius. I could hardly keep up with the articles you were posting when the lawsuit was first announced....you do so many things in a FLASH.... and awfully smart too! Yep, "gag in her mouth", "girl hung herself", "ya know not bein' her kid and all"....this guy has the entire death scene and reasoning down pat, huh? But can't remember when he cut her down....I would think that is a pretty significant event in a person's life...especially for a "can-do-responsible-guy".....oh my!

IQuestion - Thank you for the compliments :blushing: :blushing: :blushing:

Heal
07-23-2013, 01:35 PM
It just struck me just now: AS was super questionable, because:

1. I watched many films about southern states racists punishing/killing colored people by PUBLICLY hanging/tying/stripping/gagging/etc, and RZ's death reminds me of such tremendously.

2. RZ's death/hanging scene was preserved amazingly well, except for the cut rope. If AS was directly involved in RZ's death, then it would explain why he DID NOT WANT to cut the rope before the 911 call, then during the 911 call he realized he HAD NO CHOICE but to cut the rope, but then he did not cut the knots around RZ's wrists or the noose around RZ's neck. The only additional thing he did was taking the gag out of RZ's mouth.

3. It just struck me, as if AS was intending to preserve the death scene details other than trying to rescue RZ, as if the death scene details were worth preserving, as if AS wanted to preserve the completeness/integrity of the death scene as much as possible so as to have done the minimum to damage it: only cutting rope, only taking out the gag, as if the whole death scene was a masterpiece, a public showoff...

Always, just IMHO.

*Lash*
07-23-2013, 01:44 PM
I have to respectfully disagree with the racism aspect. Adam wasn't even raised in Tennessee. Racism is everywhere. I don't think it is logical to put an umbrella of racism over a state or person just because they are southern.

Heal
07-23-2013, 01:56 PM
Thanks!

Anyway, the above was just IMHO. Generally it is traceable whether a person has racist tendency, and the consoling thing is: hate crime is federal and the statue of limitation on a hate crime resulting death is unlimited. So this option/possibility is always open.


I have to respectfully disagree with the racism aspect. Adam wasn't even raised in Tennessee. Racism is everywhere. I don't think it is logical to put an umbrella of racism over a state or person just because they are southern.

*Lash*
07-23-2013, 02:25 PM
Thanks!

Anyway, the above was just IMHO. Generally it is traceable whether a person has racist tendency, and the consoling thing is: hate crime is federal and the statue of limitation on a hate crime resulting death is unlimited. So this option/possibility is always open.

I like the unlimited statute. In my opinion, there has been a lot of hate coming from other defendants in this civil suit. Tons of online cached history and screenshots. I am wondering now if this could be pursued as a hate crime. The Housemaid video, the Asian bondage porn and the online history. Thanks, Heal.

Heal
07-23-2013, 02:25 PM
One more point from me, just IMHO: Regarding racism or similar matters, it may be important partially where a person was raised, but what may be far more important is where a person chooses to live/reside after he/she becomes an adult and is able to choose where to live/reside. For instance, a liberal adult person is more likely to live/reside in places like San Francisco other than some not-liberal places; etc.


I have to respectfully disagree with the racism aspect. Adam wasn't even raised in Tennessee. Racism is everywhere. I don't think it is logical to put an umbrella of racism over a state or person just because they are southern.

Heal
07-23-2013, 03:00 PM
IMHO, one more point from me on the (possible) racial hate crime on RZ's death, the black painting on the white door "she saved him can you save her" could be racist vandalism/graffiti.

If I were to interpret the meaning of "she saved him can you save her", I would say: the killers wanted to say, "she (RZ) said she saved him (MS) after he had such a heavy fall, now let's see, can you save her after she has such a heavy fall?" ("you" here could have many different possible meanings).

STS-135
07-23-2013, 04:43 PM
AS can be clearly heard dragging the table used to better (!) reach and cut the rope. You can even hear the broken leg falling off as he drags it into position. Unless he called twice, he cut the rope while already on the 911 call. Could that explain the missing seconds? I've yet to review all the available info on the call so my recollection could be way off. Thanks.

Cherry
07-23-2013, 04:59 PM
IMHO, one more point from me on the (possible) racial hate crime on RZ's death, the black painting on the white door "she saved him can you save her" could be racist vandalism/graffiti.

If I were to interpret the meaning of "she saved him can you save her", I would say: the killers wanted to say, "she (RZ) said she saved him (MS) after he had such a heavy fall, now let's see, can you save her after she has such a heavy fall?" ("you" here could have many different possible meanings).

The problem with the writing for me is this: it sounds like something a hateful wife would say. I can't read it any other way.

Zinn
07-23-2013, 11:38 PM
The problem with the writing for me is this: it sounds like something a hateful wife would say. I can't read it any other way.

To me, it sounds hostile to whoever was expected to discover it. Since the message was written inside the home, I would guess JS was expected to read it. IIRC, there was also a document addressed to JS in the room, though the details were not publicly shared.

I suspect "she saved him" was a comment JS made in defense of Rebecca. If so, the message on the door would be throwing that back in JS's face, perhaps even suggesting he knowlingly lied about what happened.

All of the above is just my opinion and a very wild guess.

STS-135
07-24-2013, 12:43 AM
To me, it sounds hostile to whoever was expected to discover it. Since the message was written inside the home, I would guess JS was expected to read it. IIRC, there was also a document addressed to JS in the room, though the details were not publicly shared.

I suspect "she saved him" was a comment JS made in defense of Rebecca. If so, the message on the door would be throwing that back in JS's face, perhaps even suggesting he knowlingly lied about what happened.

All of the above is just my opinion and a very wild guess.
Wow! I had totally forgotten about an old reference somewhere to the document addressed to JS in the room. Could it be something as simple as that day's mail? Suicide notes are not normally released to the public. But, why would LE not have already identified it as such long ago if that's in fact what it was? What do you all make of it? Was it already discussed somewhere else? If so, where please...

K_Z
07-24-2013, 02:11 AM
The problem with the writing for me is this: it sounds like something a hateful wife would say. I can't read it any other way.

Sounds to me like something a hateful Ex-wife would say. Particularly since the 2nd EX-wife has not at all been shy about sharing what she thought/ thinks of her ex-husband's new GF. Before OR after the death of the new GF, Rebecca.

I think JS knew DS was on the "warpath" immediately after Max's accident and admission to Rady-- that she was filled with rage and revenge when she found out JS was not home when Max's accident occurred, and perhaps Dr. Peterson implied abuse may have lead to Max's death. I still give Dr. Peterson a LARGE amount of slack in this area, as I am not at all convinced Dina's story of what he said is accurate.

DS's hatred of Rebecca was not a big secret. The painted message on the door has always seemed to me to be directed to JS. I think Jonah knew Dina was mightily PO'd, but didn't necessarily know Rebecca was in mortal danger. IMO, AS was a patsy-- set up to take the fall for murder, or persuaded into being an accomplice, if it ever came to murder charges.

IMO, DS feels "secure" in her divorce agreement with JS, so that she would not dare criticize him in ANY way publicly. I think her Paradise Valley home and all of her current monetary resources are dependent on her NOT criticizing Jonah in any way, publicly. I believe that there is a gag agreement in place as part of their divorce agreement. (The "big" agreement that nullified the prenup.)

IMO, DS has turned all her rage at JS for divorcing her and "replacing" her, onto Rebecca. This has always been a case of "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned", IMO, but with a decidedly racist twist. IMO, DS was/ is MORE bothered and disturbed because Rebecca was Asian, and an immigrant. "More" bothered than if JS had dated or married a caucasian AZ or CA socialite, IMO. Maxie's awful accident just gave DS the ultimate excuse to go after the other woman, (verbally and otherwise), before and after the gruesome death of that woman, IMO. She couldn't say a thing about Jonah-- but Rebecca was open season. And that Max actually liked spending time with Rebecca was, IMO, something DS could not tolerate on a deeply visceral level. Of the 3 named respondents in the civil suit, only Dina has an ax to grind with Rebecca. The other 2 are just "loyal" accomplices because of close family ties, IMO.

Gilgamesh
07-24-2013, 09:37 AM
Sounds to me like something a hateful Ex-wife would say. Particularly since the 2nd EX-wife has not at all been shy about sharing what she thought/ thinks of her ex-husband's new GF. Before OR after the death of the new GF, Rebecca.

I think JS knew DS was on the "warpath" immediately after Max's accident and admission to Rady-- that she was filled with rage and revenge when she found out JS was not home when Max's accident occurred, and perhaps Dr. Peterson implied abuse may have lead to Max's death. I still give Dr. Peterson a LARGE amount of slack in this area, as I am not at all convinced Dina's story of what he said is accurate.

DS's hatred of Rebecca was not a big secret. The painted message on the door has always seemed to me to be directed to JS. I think Jonah knew Dina was mightily PO'd, but didn't necessarily know Rebecca was in mortal danger. IMO, AS was a patsy-- set up to take the fall for murder, or persuaded into being an accomplice, if it ever came to murder charges.

IMO, DS feels "secure" in her divorce agreement with JS, so that she would not dare criticize him in ANY way publicly. I think her Paradise Valley home and all of her current monetary resources are dependent on her NOT criticizing Jonah in any way, publicly. I believe that there is a gag agreement in place as part of their divorce agreement. (The "big" agreement that nullified the prenup.)

IMO, DS has turned all her rage at JS for divorcing her and "replacing" her, onto Rebecca. This has always been a case of "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned", IMO, but with a decidedly racist twist. IMO, DS was/ is MORE bothered and disturbed because Rebecca was Asian, and an immigrant. "More" bothered than if JS had dated or married a caucasian AZ or CA socialite, IMO. Maxie's awful accident just gave DS the ultimate excuse to go after the other woman, (verbally and otherwise), before and after the gruesome death of that woman, IMO. She couldn't say a thing about Jonah-- but Rebecca was open season. And that Max actually liked spending time with Rebecca was, IMO, something DS could not tolerate on a deeply visceral level. Of the 3 named respondents in the civil suit, only Dina has an ax to grind with Rebecca. The other 2 are just "loyal" accomplices because of close family ties, IMO.

I agree with the majority of this. I think there is a possibility, however, that AS was brought in to silence Rebecca ( permanently). I think that Dina may have shown up and rage overtook her. I tend to think that Nina was involved in the cover up. I just don't see three people conspiring to murder. That is too many people. I also am not so sure that JS wasn't involved in the planning stage. If RZ was a threat to his fortune, reputation and lifestyle, she may have been disposable. Who knows? It's all speculation. I DO believe that RZ was killed by AS and DS. JMO

STS-135
07-24-2013, 04:26 PM
I tend to think that Nina was involved in the cover up. I just don't see three people conspiring to murder. That is too many people.

I also don't believe that Nina was involved in the interrogation gone wrong. She would've had, however, strong reason to believe that her twin sister was involved. Given Dina's impulsive and sometimes violent personality, if one also believes LE reports of the domestic violence, I think she might have been threatening to go beat the truth out of Rebecca from the moment she learned that MS was in the hospital - which Nina would've known.

From the very beggining of the investigation Nina volunteered information without, as far as I remember being able to tell at the time, being actually asked about these things by LE:

BTW, I (too) doubted and wanted to question Rebecca. BTW, I (too) was at the house that evening but left immediately. BTW, I (too) touched her phone that day (and sure don't want you to think it was me when you examine it.) And, no, I didn't touch the gate (but that's the way I believe the killer got into the house).

Her statements, in other words, point to having knowledge that it was a murder in all likelyhood. My thoughts, in parentheses, might've been the exact same thoughts she was contending with as she spoke with LE. If I was afraid of incriminating the only blood family I've ever known, and my twin sister at that, I too would've likely been reluctant to go downtown and scared witless by the poly.

:moo:

IQuestion
07-24-2013, 11:30 PM
Since this thread is about the 911 call, and everyone reacts to an emergency differently, courts do compare the actions of an individual to the actions of a PRUDENT PERSON. How many times has it been asked in court, "Are these the actions of a prudent person?" So, I am going to present a scenario to you and ask yourselves..."What would a prudent person do?": A recent visitor to California walks out of his bungalow, to get a cup of coffee at the clubhouse. As he/she walks across the courtyard, notices a body floating face down in the swimming pool. Not only floating face down, but also has their feet tied together, and their hands bound behind their back! DOES A PRUDENT PERSON CALL 911? Yes, of course. DOES A PRUDENT PERSON ANNOUNCE TO THE 911 OPERATOR, "I got a boy, drowned himself." When the 911 operator asks, "What is the address?" DOES A PRUDENT PERSON SAY, "I'll call you back?"Or, would a prudent person, then decide they are a "can do, responsible kinda guy" and decide to take care of EVERYTHING himself? Doesn't bother to scream out to near by neighbors, asking for help? "Hey, I need some help! Does anyone know the address of this place? Somebody, anybody PLEASE, PLEASE HELP..THIS IS AN EMERGENCY!" No, AS doesn't perform any of the actions of a prudent person...not even bothering to unbind the victim before performing CPR. These are but a few of the problems I have with the 911 caller. Why did he take it upon himself to "Huff and puff to get the address? Huff and puff to get the knife?
Huff and puff to drag the table across the courtyard, even though their were chairs in the same room he had just retrieved the knife? Huff and puff to cut her down? And never once scream out to a neighbor for assistance, if this was truly a life and death scenario? Ask yourself, "Are these the actions of a prudent person?"
I think these are the actions of someone wanting us to believe he was acting in a prudent and responsible manner.... Frankly, parts of it sounded like an old time radio show drama...the prop man makes the sound of a dragging table, makes the sounds of exerting energy, embellishes the airwaves with huffing and puffing...quite a drama, huh?

IQuestion
07-24-2013, 11:52 PM
Since this thread is about the 911 call, and everyone reacts to an emergency differently, courts do compare the actions of an individual to the actions of a PRUDENT PERSON. How many times has it been asked in court, "Are these the actions of a prudent person?" So, I am going to present a scenario to you and ask yourselves..."What would a prudent person do?": A recent visitor to California walks out of his bungalow, to get a cup of coffee at the clubhouse. As he/she walks across the courtyard, notices a body floating face down in the swimming pool. Not only floating face down, but also has their feet tied together, and their hands bound behind their back! DOES A PRUDENT PERSON CALL 911? Yes, of course. DOES A PRUDENT PERSON ANNOUNCE TO THE 911 OPERATOR, "I got a boy, drowned himself." When the 911 operator asks, "What is the address?" DOES A PRUDENT PERSON SAY, "I'll call you back?"Or, would a prudent person, then decide they are a "can do, responsible kinda guy" and decide to take care of EVERYTHING himself? Doesn't bother to scream out to near by neighbors, asking for help? "Hey, I need some help! Does anyone know the address of this place? Somebody, anybody PLEASE, PLEASE HELP..THIS IS AN EMERGENCY!" No, AS doesn't perform any of the actions of a prudent person...not even bothering to unbind the victim before performing CPR. These are but a few of the problems I have with the 911 caller. Why did he take it upon himself to "Huff and puff to get the address? Huff and puff to get the knife?
Huff and puff to drag the table across the courtyard, even though their were chairs in the same room he had just retrieved the knife? Huff and puff to cut her down? And never once scream out to a neighbor for assistance, if this was truly a life and death scenario? Ask yourself, "Are these the actions of a prudent person?"
I think these are the actions of someone wanting us to believe he was acting in a prudent and responsible manner.... Frankly, parts of it sounded like an old time radio show drama...the prop man makes the sound of a dragging table, makes the sounds of exerting energy, embellishes the airwaves with huffing and puffing...quite a drama, huh?

So strange to "quote myself" but the above comment leads into what I ultimately want to say. DS asked, "Why didn't Rebecca make the 911 call herself?" BECAUSE REBECCA WAS PERFORMING THE ACTIONS OF A PRUDENT PERSON! Rebecca was performing CPR and tending to the needs of the injured child. She told her sister to call 911...she did not move away from the injured child, she asked for help and continued to perform the most important task at hand, trying to resuscitate the injured. Would any parent want life savings measures to stop, so she could make a phone call and run out front to find the address?

Betty P
07-25-2013, 12:10 AM
So strange to "quote myself" but the above comment leads into what I ultimately want to say. DS asked, "Why didn't Rebecca make the 911 call herself?" BECAUSE REBECCA WAS PERFORMING THE ACTIONS OF A PRUDENT PERSON! Rebecca was performing CPR and tending to the needs of the injured child. She told her sister to call 911...she did not move away from the injured child, she asked for help and continued to perform the most important task at hand, trying to resuscitate the injured. Would any parent want life savings measures to stop, so she could make a phone call and run out front to find the address?

I've taken quite a few life-saving/CPR classes (American Red Cross, local EMS) over the years and that's part of the training - look directly at another person and tell them to call 911 while you continue to perform first aid. Unless there's a more qualified person at the scene, you have to use your training to assist the victim while others make the call.

DeDee
08-02-2013, 03:18 AM
A slight distraction

Originally Posted by IQuestion
Since this thread is about the 911 call, and everyone reacts to an emergency differently, courts do compare the actions of an individual to the actions of a PRUDENT PERSON. How many times has it been asked in court, "Are these the actions of a prudent person?" So, I am going to present a scenario to you and ask yourselves..."What would a prudent person do?": A recent visitor to California walks out of his bungalow, to get a cup of coffee at the clubhouse. As he/she walks across the courtyard, notices a body floating face down in the swimming pool. Not only floating face down, but also has their feet tied together, and their hands bound behind their back! DOES A PRUDENT PERSON CALL 911? Yes, of course. DOES A PRUDENT PERSON ANNOUNCE TO THE 911 OPERATOR,"I got a boy, drowned himself."
"I got a boy, drowned himself."
Really, IQuestion, how does a drowning suicide compare and contrast to RZN's nude hanging suicide. I realize that you are mocking AS in the 911 call but, "drowned himself"? <respectfully snipped>



So strange to "quote myself" but the above comment leads into what I ultimately want to say. DS asked, "Why didn't Rebecca make the 911 call herself?" BECAUSE REBECCA WAS PERFORMING THE ACTIONS OF A PRUDENT PERSON! Rebecca was performing CPR and tending to the needs of the injured child. <respectfully snipped>

Not so fast, IQuestion. The #1 post in the CFD EMT/Paramedic Report thread created by Salem on 09/25/2012:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185755


You, IQuestion, boldly yet erroneously stated, as fact, the following:


Rebecca was performing CPR <snipped again>

No, IQuestion, no. Rebecca was not administering CPR to Max. You simply must stick with the facts and not be intentionally misleading. The link below is to the report of the Coronado Fire Dept. in response to the emergency call to the 1043 Ocean Blvd address that Salem posted 09/25/2012:

http://www.maxshacknai.com/wp-conten...CFD_Report.pdf


In the report by the Coronado Fire Dept. regarding their care and observations of Max, in the ninth sentence from the end of topic History.
The report clearly states that no CPR was performed prior to their arrival on the scene.


This directly contradicts previous information that RZ was giving "rescue breaths" or CPR at any time prior to of the Paramedics/EMTs'. And do you know why it was impossible for RZN to administer CPR to Max? It's also listed in the Coronado Fire Dept. report under topic Physical Exam. It is documented that CFD arrived on the scene at 10:16 and their assessments began by 10:18. Disclaimer: times may be approximate as stated on the report This is what they found.

Physical Exam
Head: Noted blood in airway and pooling airway secretions.

It is strictly my reasonable conclusion and only my opinion that Rebecca could not and did not give any rescue breaths to Max due to the blood, vomit, and other secretions accumulating in his passageways. Medical staff could not do it either. They could not secure an airway for this broken child because of the continual need for suctioning out his fluids. Rebecca could not give any rescue breaths to Max due to the body fluids, blood, vomit, and other secretions that were steadily accumulating in his passageways and filling up his tiny mouth. So, did Rebecca lie about performing any CPR type actions by claiming that she did? How is that for prudence?

The proper form for administering CPR is to clear the patient's airway first. She didn't do it because she would have said there was a blockage preventing her from doing so. No puffs. No rapid breaths of air. There was no room in his small mouth for the air from her puffs or CPR attempts. There was no room because his tiny body's passages were filling with mixed fluids.

This small child may not have been pronounced dead until days later; however, Max was not breathing when medical help arrived at 10:16. Max was already turning blue from lack of oxygen. That's what cyanosis is. His brain was swelling from the fracture in his skull. His pupils were fixed and dilated. This was caused by his TBI (Traumatic Brain Injury). Max was "flatline". That is what asystole means. His heart did not have electrical currents. Max was pulseless which essentially means that he was experiencing cardiac arrest. If others have told you otherwise, direct them to the CFD EMT/Paramedic Report Post #1 so they can learn the truth.

BTW
I noticed in photos that apparently the medics loaded by lightly lifting and sliding Maz's battered body onto a product so he could be moved from the area where his body was located upon CFD's arrival. There is a pic to prove it. The experts may have already figured this one out and I missed finding the posts.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26869&d=1348436054

Notice under the small arrow in the middle of the screen. Under that arrow is where the medics worked their skills on Max. The clues are the plastic strewn on each side of the path made by where Max was laying. The path has discarded trash and plastic from the varied apparatus, iv lines, etc. tossed on each side.

Notice further, to the far left in the photo, locate the first-floor newel post attached near the first riser. Max's head was alongside and near the staircase almost even with the first-floor newel post. His head was toward the door when medics arrived. His feet were toward the wall. That small space is crowded. The scooter's wooden footboard and back wheel of the scooter was atop his leg. The shattered 30"w chandelier was near his left shoulder. One of the medics moved the chandelier so he could access Max.

His tiny body must have been carefully moved a short distance, still head first, into the open area and closer to the front door exit as the medics continued their many good works. That is what the trail of discarded plastic from medical supplies says to me in this photo. Max was transported to the nearest hospital within 14 minutes after emergency medical help originally arrived.


MOO & OMO unless linked to credible sources

time
08-02-2013, 11:54 AM
<snip>
No, IQuestion, no. Rebecca was not administering CPR to Max. You simply must stick with the facts and not be intentionally misleading. The link below is to the report of the Coronado Fire Dept. in response to the emergency call to the 1043 Ocean Blvd address that Salem posted 09/25/2012:


We have discussed this extensively. I think it was KZ who had some excellent posts on it. As I remember, Rebecca probably started to administer CPR, she actually gave a few rescue breaths, but Max was either vomiting or there was some similar reason it could not be completed. I could be off a bit and hope others will chime in. I beleive this all resolves into, not a question of whether Rebecca did everything she could, but semantics and choice of wording.

I'm really surprised you are accusing IQuestion of being intentionally misleading?

*Lash*
08-02-2013, 12:00 PM
We have discussed this extensively. I think it was KZ who had some excellent posts on it. As I remember, Rebecca probably started to administer CPR, she actually gave a few rescue breaths, but Max was either vomiting or there was some similar reason it could not be completed. I could be off a bit and hope others will chime in. I beleive this all resolves into, not a question of whether Rebecca did everything she could, but semantics and choice of wording.

I'm really surprised you are accusing IQuestion of being intentionally misleading?

Hi Time :)

KZ examined the report and thoroughly opined with her expertise.

Here is the thread that was created by KZ.

Max Shacknai EMS Report - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

time
08-02-2013, 12:04 PM
Hi Time :)

KZ examined the report and thoroughly opined with her expertise.

Here is the thread that was created by KZ.

Max Shacknai EMS Report - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185699)


Thank you! I knew there was more on another thread. I bumped this thread also

Rebecca and the 'rescue breaths' - Page 6 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

LoveAlways7
08-03-2013, 04:25 PM
Since this thread is about the 911 call, and everyone reacts to an emergency differently, courts do compare the actions of an individual to the actions of a PRUDENT PERSON. How many times has it been asked in court, "Are these the actions of a prudent person?" So, I am going to present a scenario to you and ask yourselves..."What would a prudent person do?": A recent visitor to California walks out of his bungalow, to get a cup of coffee at the clubhouse. As he/she walks across the courtyard, notices a body floating face down in the swimming pool. Not only floating face down, but also has their feet tied together, and their hands bound behind their back! DOES A PRUDENT PERSON CALL 911? Yes, of course. DOES A PRUDENT PERSON ANNOUNCE TO THE 911 OPERATOR, "I got a boy, drowned himself." When the 911 operator asks, "What is the address?" DOES A PRUDENT PERSON SAY, "I'll call you back?"Or, would a prudent person, then decide they are a "can do, responsible kinda guy" and decide to take care of EVERYTHING himself? Doesn't bother to scream out to near by neighbors, asking for help? "Hey, I need some help! Does anyone know the address of this place? Somebody, anybody PLEASE, PLEASE HELP..THIS IS AN EMERGENCY!" No, AS doesn't perform any of the actions of a prudent person...not even bothering to unbind the victim before performing CPR. These are but a few of the problems I have with the 911 caller. Why did he take it upon himself to "Huff and puff to get the address? Huff and puff to get the knife?
Huff and puff to drag the table across the courtyard, even though their were chairs in the same room he had just retrieved the knife? Huff and puff to cut her down? And never once scream out to a neighbor for assistance, if this was truly a life and death scenario? Ask yourself, "Are these the actions of a prudent person?"
I think these are the actions of someone wanting us to believe he was acting in a prudent and responsible manner.... Frankly, parts of it sounded like an old time radio show drama...the prop man makes the sound of a dragging table, makes the sounds of exerting energy, embellishes the airwaves with huffing and puffing...quite a drama, huh?


bbm... I only got that far in your post, but at no time has anyone put anything more succinctly!!! Awesome, I was clapping my hands :floorlaugh:

I don't think Dina helped, by the way, nor Nina. JMO

LoveAlways7
08-03-2013, 04:28 PM
IQuestion, your post was a home run.

No, a prudent person doesn't see a body floating in the pool arms and legs bound and say they found someone that drowned themselves.

Adam was "brought in" quickly after Max's fall. WHO would think so quickly to bring in Adam?

Just sayin'